Gray is out of his depth’

[Danderhall Hibs]

Just checked, doesnt mention recruitment staff.

Derek Whites fault.

[He's here!]

The recruitment team identify, the manager picks from the list, then contracts are negotiated.

It’s all been covered various times.

Naming individuals will make no difference to the discussion.

I'm also in the dark about who these people are. If it's been covered various times I must have missed it.

Clearly there are posters on here who are closer to the inner workings of the club than most, but as someome with no inside knowledge at all it's a surprise to me to learn that Mackay isn't involved in identifying players. The interview he gave at the end of the transfer window gave me the impression he pretty much runs the whole process.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm also in the dark about who these people are. If it's been covered various times I must have missed it.

Clearly there are posters on here who are closer to the inner workings of the club than most, but as someome with no inside knowledge at all it's a surprise to me to learn that Mackay isn't involved in identifying players. The interview he gave at thd end of the transfer window gave me the impression he pretty much runs the whole process.

I don’t know the names of them either - but I don’t think I have to. There’s a team. Would getting the club to name them make everyone feel better about it?

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t know the names of them either - but I don’t think I have to. There’s a team. Would getting the club to name them make everyone feel better about it?

Is it the same team as previously? I don’t really care about their names. If it’s the same team of people identifying players though then we’ll keep getting the same standard of players signing. It would also make a mockery of the idea there’s been any sort of review of the football department.

[Groathillgrump]

I don’t know the names of them either - but I don’t think I have to. There’s a team. Would getting the club to name them make everyone feel better about it?

It's a vital part of the set-up so yes it would be good to know who the recruitment team are.

I don't see a problem with that. Unless of course they don't want us to know that Ian Gordon is maybe still Head of Recruitment.:hmmm:

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm also in the dark about who these people are. If it's been covered various times I must have missed it.

Clearly there are posters on here who are closer to the inner workings of the club than most, but as someome with no inside knowledge at all it's a surprise to me to learn that Mackay isn't involved in identifying players. The interview he gave at the end of the transfer window gave me the impression he pretty much runs the whole process.

It's a secret. :shhhsh!:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Ian Gordon has been clear he’s not head of recruitment - it’s been done to death in interviews. If you don’t want to watch or read them that’s fine but don’t then start rumours and create drama about it being a secret.

[He's here!]

I don’t know the names of them either - but I don’t think I have to. There’s a team. Would getting the club to name them make everyone feel better about it?

It might help explain why they're so terrible at their job if we knew who they were.

[SickBoy32]

Derek Whites fault.

The clown who brought us Bushiri and whose oversight led to us forfeiting a match.

Should’ve been sacked years ago

[Groathillgrump]

Ian Gordon has been clear he’s not head of recruitment - it’s been done to death in interviews. If you don’t want to watch or read them that’s fine but don’t then start rumours and create drama about it being a secret.

Starting rumours? :faf:

The "drama" is being created purely because there doesn't seem to be any transparency about who the recruitment team are. When that happens people then suspect there's something to hide.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It might help explain why they're so terrible at their job if we knew who they were.

Would it?

[Jock O]

It might help explain why they're so terrible at their job if we knew who they were.

In the good old days did you know the names of all the scouts? Why would the names of the modern day equivalent who are probably a team of data analysts be remotely relevant. Its actually either a separate degree qualification now or part of one of the Sport management degrees, so it will likely include some spotty 21 year olds doing an analytic job. You hope it has the right level of experience at the decision making stage but the public face of that has to be Mackay and Marshall surely. They need to be the target if we are unhappy.

I thought Malky Mackay has clearly said he is ultimately responsible for recruitment, and there is as a committee making decisions that includes Gray and Marshall. Was that not the summary of one of his early interviews? Which is a system that Klopp at Liverpool openly identified as how it worked at Liverpool, and I suspect a number of clubs with a DOF type structure. It is obvious that this seasons didn't have this structure complete, and some signings look like they were known to people, including Gray. Its definitely not been perfect in execution as yet, but I suspect it is still getting completely structured. That's not helping our current situation but it was never going to happen overnight.

[matty_f]

Interesting. I presumed he had some form of involvement in identifying players. If he doesn’t, has the recruitment team been replaced? If we done a root and branch review you’d have to presume they have been. As the roots, they’ve failed miserably so a review can surely have only come to one conclusion on them.

If not Mackay, who would you say is ultimately responsible for recruitment/player identification nowadays at Hibs?

Some transfers take time to complete. Not all them. How often do we here players in their interviews turn round and go ‘yeah it all happened really quickly, suddenly I was in the car up the A1, I’ve still not even told my wife’ etc. We should have comfortably been able to identify players between McDermott leaving and the 2 months or so that followed before a competitive ball was kicked that weren’t identified by his failing system.

I’m sorry but nothing will convince me that signing guys identified by the previous recruitment team, that we had already acknowledged wasn’t working, was the best course of action. Especially when those signings were made prior to the window even opening.

Being responsible for it is different to doing it. I was a Head of Function in my last job, I didn’t do any of the processing or manage any of the teams, I had managers that managed the guys, and the guys did the processing but I was accountable for making sure the targets were hit.

With a club our size, Malky will have an involvement but he’s not going to be the guy sifting through stats and footage to find players, and nor should he be.

We have hired new analysts, I believe - and put a new process in place, this was one of Malky’s priorities. However that process is about spending a lot of time looking at potential players etc so couldn’t be effective in time for the window they were in.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Being responsible for it is different to doing it. I was a Head of Function in my last job, I didn’t do any of the processing or manage any of the teams, I had managers that managed the guys, and the guys did the processing but I was accountable for making sure the targets were hit.

With a club our size, Malky will have an involvement but he’s not going to be the guy sifting through stats and footage to find players, and nor should he be.

We have hired new analysts, I believe - and put a new process in place, this was one of Malky’s priorities. However that process is about spending a lot of time looking at potential players etc so couldn’t be effective in time for the window they were in.

Thanks.

In that case there is potentially an argument for a bit of leeway being given to him if we’ve hired new people to identify players.

[GreenCastle]

It’s pretty easy to find names of the recruitment people if you search Hibs recruitment LinkedIn.

Seems to be recruitment analyst, Head of Technical recruitment etc.

[matty_f]

I'm also in the dark about who these people are. If it's been covered various times I must have missed it.

Clearly there are posters on here who are closer to the inner workings of the club than most, but as someome with no inside knowledge at all it's a surprise to me to learn that Mackay isn't involved in identifying players. The interview he gave at the end of the transfer window gave me the impression he pretty much runs the whole process.
He is involved, there’s a point between no involvement and doing it himself, but his involvement isn’t being the person that puts a list of targets together, rather he makes sure the folk putting the list together are following the best process, using the systems properly etc.

[Unseen work]

It’s pretty easy to find names of the recruitment people if you search Hibs recruitment LinkedIn.

Seems to be recruitment analyst, Head of Technical recruitment etc.

Yep, we’re not hiding it from anyone in the same way that clubs don’t normally post every single person in the recruitment team as there will be loads

I’m sure Calvin Charlton is one of the main ones

[Forza Fred]

It’s pretty easy to find names of the recruitment people if you search Hibs recruitment LinkedIn.

Seems to be recruitment analyst, Head of Technical recruitment etc.

Don’t get the need for the secrecy of it all though.

Do they get smuggled into Easter road wearing balaclavas to hide their identity?

HIBS Media should do a story on them

[allezsauzee]

Why isn’t it a great idea?

It only doesn’t work if you don’t sign the right loan players, same goes for all signings.

Dundee Utd just beat us with a loan keeper, loan centre half, loan centre mid and loan striker starting.

Dundee United may well have managed to get decent loan signings in those key positions , however they will lose them at some point and they have to repeat the process every 6/12 months. The more often you have to recruit, the more likely you are to get a weak link, so while I agree the quality of signing is paramount, I think it makes sense to make you major investment in these "spine" positions. Then you can take a bit more of a gamble on slightly less vital squad members

[ShadesLongThrow]

Don’t get the need for the secrecy of it all though.

Do they get smuggled into Easter road wearing balaclavas to hide their identity?

HIBS Media should do a story on them

What! The recruitment team are members of Block 7? It just gets worse…

[Scotty Leither]

He is involved, there’s a point between no involvement and doing it himself, but his involvement isn’t being the person that puts a list of targets together, rather he makes sure the folk putting the list together are following the best process, using the systems properly etc.

So for all their fancy titles and analytics at their fingertips, they came up with the two no-mark goalies we’ve signed?

They must have used the search engine marked “cheap and nasty” in recommending them as signings.

[Trinity Hibee]

So for all their fancy titles and analytics at their fingertips, they came up with the two no-mark goalies we’ve signed?

They must have used the search engine marked “cheap and nasty” in recommending them as signings.

You do have to question what these folk are finding in these systems. Repeated failures

[matty_f]

So for all their fancy titles and analytics at their fingertips, they came up with the two no-mark goalies we’ve signed?

They must have used the search engine marked “cheap and nasty” in recommending them as signings.

Yes. I imagine that’s exactly what they did.

[Jock O]

You do have to question what these folk are finding in these systems. Repeated failures

Or firstly question were these folk in place before hanging them out to dry. This thread is providing a very good reason for not having anyone other than the guys at top named in public.

[Scotty Leither]

Or firstly question were these folk in place before hanging them out to dry. This thread is providing a very good reason for not having anyone other than the guys at top named in public.

They’ll need to justify the signings at the AGM, that’s for sure. Unless of course MacPherson bans any difficulty questioning re player recruitment.

[Trinity Hibee]

Or firstly question were these folk in place before hanging them out to dry. This thread is providing a very good reason for not having anyone other than the guys at top named in public.

Whoever was in place and inputs to recruitment has made an arse of it top to bottom.

[matty_f]

Whoever was in place and inputs to recruitment has made an arse of it top to bottom.

I think that’s broadly acknowledged though with replacing Brian McDermott and (iirc) bringing in new guys.

Too late to properly impact the window just passed, but we should absolutely see some results in January.

[Trinity Hibee]

I think that’s broadly acknowledged though with replacing Brian McDermott and (iirc) bringing in new guys.

Too late to properly impact the window just passed, but we should absolutely see some results in January.

Absolutely agree.

[Jock O]

They’ll need to justify the signings at the AGM, that’s for sure. Unless of course MacPherson bans any difficulty questioning re player recruitment.

I haven't been to recent AGM's but I assume you are saying that McPherson restricted questions last year? To be fair most big PLC's do vet questions before but that doesn't mean difficult questions should not be taken. I think there should be an update from MacKay at this years which will set out his stall and also report on where we are. Its not going to be a pleasant one for him, although the optimist in me hopes we will be in a far better place by AGM, but for me this is the time to have an update on where we are with team and processes, and more importantly where we will be at summer. He will obviously have had a January window to be judged against also. which again the optimist in me hopes he will have positive feedback for his team.

This AGM is going to be a turning point for a few I suppose, as if financial projections and statements made by CEO don't stand up, he will surely have to justify why. It will also give clear insight into how the Finances have been used and if we do have something to worry about. Another sacked manager in that statement would be a complete disaster, as although it won't be in financials it will be hanging over them. So their decision making until then is crucial for the winning over of the fans still willing to be won over. It looks now like some will find fault no matter what, although maybe results can change that.

I generally sit on the side that I would rather see what we have in Exec improve than take another risk in the market, but currently there is little to be optimistic about the owners results. However I cannot get past seeing we need to see this set of changes out and hope it doesn't end in complete disaster. Not exactly a good place to be in, so appreciate peoples anger.


Whoever was in place and inputs to recruitment has made an arse of it top to bottom.

The point I am making is, like it or not, the whole recruitment process was in transition over the close season. Not good and something the Execs have to take full responsibility for, but equally we need to see where it is going now before judging fully. Not sure I agree its been a complete disaster but the key elements of goalkeepers and central defence look considerably weaker than last year, so that's a real concern. I have only seen one full game this year however so hoping its because I am mostly seeing their mistakes. I agree how we got to these guys can be questioned but I suppose it's how we now move on that should be seen as the key measurement. Obviously real disasters on playing field, e.g. relegation, will mitigate that and change the perception completely. But I come back to it is the people making the decisions that should be accountable, if the information to them is not good enough then change that, if it is their decisions are not good enough then yes questions need to be asked at top. There needs to be some level of measurement and accountability agreed.

But lets be honest recruitment at our level is rarely 100% successful, its the fact that lately we have rarely got it right is the issue. That has to be seen as MacKay's responsibility sorting that, and again, like it or not, that was never going to happen completely in the summer. Our current demise on the field is meaning, understandably, there is little patience for changes being bedded in, so we need to sort that too. Its a pretty crap time all over for the club, but as above I think we need to judge where we are at the end of the season, with the optimist in me still thinking we won't get relegated, but the realist knowing unless we change course quickly the chances of it are getting more realistic. If nothing the decisions at top are going to be crucial and I think its the one thing most on here agree is the thing we have least faith in based on evidence.

I do agree with your posts that assuming the Black Knights are the answer is very dangerous, they have clearly set out how they see it working and it comes over to me as Hib's success would be secondary to our role in the group structure. They hope success will result from our place in their structure as opposed to just making Hibs successful, I think it is a very important differential.

[TrinityHFC]

I haven't been to recent AGM's but I assume you are saying that McPherson restricted questions last year? To be fair most big PLC's do vet questions before but that doesn't mean difficult questions should not be taken. I think there should be an update from MacKay at this years which will set out his stall and also report on where we are. Its not going to be a pleasant one for him, although the optimist in me hopes we will be in a far better place by AGM, but for me this is the time to have an update on where we are with team and processes, and more importantly where we will be at summer. He will obviously have had a January window to be judged against also. which again the optimist in me hopes he will have positive feedback for his team.

This AGM is going to be a turning point for a few I suppose, as if financial projections and statements made by CEO don't stand up, he will surely have to justify why. It will also give clear insight into how the Finances have been used and if we do have something to worry about. Another sacked manager in that statement would be a complete disaster, as although it won't be in financials it will be hanging over them. So their decision making until then is crucial for the winning over of the fans still willing to be won over. It looks now like some will find fault no matter what, although maybe results can change that.

I generally sit on the side that I would rather see what we have in Exec improve than take another risk in the market, but currently there is little to be optimistic about the owners results. However I cannot get past seeing we need to see this set of changes out and hope it doesn't end in complete disaster. Not exactly a good place to be in, so appreciate peoples anger.



The point I am making is, like it or not, the whole recruitment process was in transition over the close season. Not good and something the Execs have to take full responsibility for, but equally we need to see where it is going now before judging fully. Not sure I agree its been a complete disaster but the key elements of goalkeepers and central defence look considerably weaker than last year, so that's a real concern. I have only seen one full game this year however so hoping its because I am mostly seeing their mistakes. I agree how we got to these guys can be questioned but I suppose it's how we now move on that should be seen as the key measurement. Obviously real disasters on playing field, e.g. relegation, will mitigate that and change the perception completely. But I come back to it is the people making the decisions that should be accountable, if the information to them is not good enough then change that, if it is their decisions are not good enough then yes questions need to be asked at top. There needs to be some level of measurement and accountability agreed.

But lets be honest recruitment at our level is rarely 100% successful, its the fact that lately we have rarely got it right is the issue. That has to be seen as MacKay's responsibility sorting that, and again, like it or not, that was never going to happen completely in the summer. Our current demise on the field is meaning, understandably, there is little patience for changes being bedded in, so we need to sort that too. Its a pretty crap time all over for the club, but as above I think we need to judge where we are at the end of the season, with the optimist in me still thinking we won't get relegated, but the realist knowing unless we change course quickly the chances of it are getting more realistic. If nothing the decisions at top are going to be crucial and I think its the one thing most on here agree is the thing we have least faith in based on evidence.

I do agree with your posts that assuming the Black Knights are the answer is very dangerous, they have clearly set out how they see it working and it comes over to me as Hib's success would be secondary to our role in the group structure. They hope success will result from our place in their structure as opposed to just making Hibs successful, I think it is a very important differential.

Questions weren’t restricted at the last AGM. The whole of the staff were there and available to answer any questions.

When it came to football related questions most people asked about the behaviour of Rangers fans. I was surprised but nobody really asked anything about recruitment or coaching.

[Trinity Hibee]

Questions weren’t restricted at the last AGM. The whole of the staff were there and available to answer any questions.

When it came to football related questions most people asked about the behaviour of Rangers fans. I was surprised but nobody really asked anything about recruitment or coaching.

Really? The Board probably couldn’t believe their luck

[B.H.F.C]

So for all their fancy titles and analytics at their fingertips, they came up with the two no-mark goalies we’ve signed?

They must have used the search engine marked “cheap and nasty” in recommending them as signings.

We’re no very good at picking good players but I don’t think it’s through trying to be cheap.

[Scotty Leither]

We’re no very good at picking good players but I don’t think it’s through trying to be cheap.

The two phantoms we’ve signed as GKs will certainly fit the “cheap” profile.

[B.H.F.C]

The two phantoms we’ve signed as GKs will certainly fit the “cheap” profile.

I very much doubt Bursik is here on the cheap. He’ll be on a good contract at team who play in the Champions League and we’ll be paying a part of that now.

***** aye, cheap naw.

[Hibernian Verse]

The two phantoms we’ve signed as GKs will certainly fit the “cheap” profile.

Plenty cheap players in the SPFL that out-perform ours. Unfortunately barely any of ours are cheap they are just *****.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s pretty easy to find names of the recruitment people if you search Hibs recruitment LinkedIn.

Seems to be recruitment analyst, Head of Technical recruitment etc.

Wonder how many of such jobs as well as the performance directors, and various other non playing non coaching jobs Derek McInnes needs at Kilmarnock?
If we slimmed down that side of the club could it pay for a better team on the park?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

I think that’s broadly acknowledged though with replacing Brian McDermott and (iirc) bringing in new guys.

Too late to properly impact the window just passed, but we should absolutely see some results in January.

That may be true but the club promised game changing spending in the summer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wull]

Wonder how many of such jobs as well as the performance directors, and various other non playing non coaching jobs Derek McInnes needs at Kilmarnock?
If we slimmed down that side of the club could it pay for a better team on the park?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now there’s a good point :agree:

[Yorkshire HFC]

Wonder how many of such jobs as well as the performance directors, and various other non playing non coaching jobs Derek McInnes needs at Kilmarnock?
If we slimmed down that side of the club could it pay for a better team on the park?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wonder where we'd be if we'd kept Porteous and Nisbet and signed McGeown from Dundee instead of spending the same money on +10 players who will never make it at Hibs?

Spend big on 3 or 4 players that you can build a team around instead of filling the team with short term loans and random journeymen who have no commitment to Hibs other than receiving their salary.

[MWHIBBIES]

I wonder where we'd be if we'd kept Porteous and Nisbet and signed McGeown from Dundee instead of spending the same money on +10 players who will never make it at Hibs?

Spend big on 3 or 4 players that you can build a team around instead of filling the team with short term loans and random journeymen who have no commitment to Hibs other than receiving their salary.

Both Porteous and Nisbet would now have left for free and we'd be 3.5 million worse off.

[Hibernian Verse]

I wonder where we'd be if we'd kept Porteous and Nisbet and signed McGeown from Dundee instead of spending the same money on +10 players who will never make it at Hibs?

Spend big on 3 or 4 players that you can build a team around instead of filling the team with short term loans and random journeymen who have no commitment to Hibs other than receiving their salary.

That's really not worth worrying about, neither player wanted to be at Hibs and McCowan signed for Celtic who are lightyears ahead of us.

In fact so are Watford and Millwall.

[matty_f]

That may be true but the club promised game changing spending in the summer?


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How much did we spend?

I don’t think it was ever said that there would be game changing amounts spent in the summer, but happy to stand corrected if you can show my that.

I think they said that the investment would be game changing, and Foley said we would have a few million to spend in the summer. Of course, these statements were made when we looked on track for a top four, rather than eighth finish.

[Hibees1973]

Gray has performed exactly as I thought he would.

Results and performances mirror the last 2 or 3 managers of which he was a part of.

I still cannot attach any logic why he was appointed.

However, I would pin more responsibility at the door of Ian Gordon & Kensell. It ain't going to get any better until they are gone.

[Yorkshire HFC]

That's really not worth worrying about, neither player wanted to be at Hibs and McCowan signed for Celtic who are lightyears ahead of us.

In fact so are Watford and Millwall.

I know. But it's about the recruitment strategy - I just don't see one - random players just seem to turn up every week.

We need a couple of big names to build a team around - we don't even seem to be trying.

Would Porteous and Nisbet have gone if we'd matched the wages they were offered down south? Pay McGeown what Celtic offered and guarantee him a game every week.

And fund this by not signing 10 of the players we've ended up with, none of whom will be missed when they're gone.

And you wouldn't need a recruitment "team" to do this.

[Smartie]

I don't think Gray is out of his depth at all.

Yes, he'll be making the odd mistake, the same as players, refs, recruitments teams etc do.

But we're not struggling primarily because of Gray's inexperience or the mistakes he's making.

Could some of his subs have been better? Maybe. We know that what he's tried hasn't worked, what we don't have is a guarantee that trying something different would have necessarily have worked better. The squad is thin, he has severe problems in certain key areas and can only work with what he's got.

I just don't see how a manager is culpable for the touch Newell takes under little pressure in midfield at 2-1 up - and that's what went on to cost us the game. Were there credible alternatives for Newell being on the park at that stage of the game that even with hindsight we can say that Gray should have reached for? I don't think so. Should he be subbing Triantis last week? Bold move making such a move so early, one that only makes sense with said hindsight.

Personally I'm very much of the persevere, keep the faith mindset right now. The squad is a shambles because of the churn of managers and players we've had for 5 years. The solution is unlikely to be more of what caused the problem in the first place.

[easty]

I know. But it's about the recruitment strategy - I just don't see one - random players just seem to turn up every week.

We need a couple of big names to build a team around - we don't even seem to be trying.

Would Porteous and Nisbet have gone if we'd matched the wages they were offered down south? Pay McGeown what Celtic offered and guarantee him a game every week.

And fund this by not signing 10 of the players we've ended up with, none of whom will be missed when they're gone.

And you wouldn't need a recruitment "team" to do this.

Signing a couple of big names, keeping Nisbet and Porto on the same deals they got down south, and matching the offer Celtc gave McCowan is just so far away from any potential reality for Hibs. Financially.

[Murphys Touch]

Wonder how many of such jobs as well as the performance directors, and various other non playing non coaching jobs Derek McInnes needs at Kilmarnock?
If we slimmed down that side of the club could it pay for a better team on the park?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This in a nutshell is it, isn't it! The whole being of the club is the first team and their performance - it's where all the investment in time, effort and cash should go. It's also where the power should go.

We are not thick (although there will be some) as a support base but here we are squabbling about who is responsible for what. And if reasonable punters are, you can rest assured those that have very little experience outside the football world are also asking themselves that question at best. At worse, they are happy with the lack of accountability.

Hand on heart, where is the beginning and end of Marshall, Mackay, Gray's roles not to mention the "Heads of...academy, recruitment, technical recruitment, performance analysis, talent ID, people & culture (take a look at LinkedIN, it's crazy!). Not to mention the board or black knights.

We are NOT big enough and certainly NOT good enough to have all these roles and all this structure....especially when the first team is guff.

This summer it needed a larger than life MANAGER of Hibs who had the experience, know how and presence to get a team on the park and a small and elite back room team all aligned on one aim. Arguably that is why the Motherwells, St Mirrens, Killies are punching above our weight. They have clear objectives

[MWHIBBIES]

I know. But it's about the recruitment strategy - I just don't see one - random players just seem to turn up every week.

We need a couple of big names to build a team around - we don't even seem to be trying.

Would Porteous and Nisbet have gone if we'd matched the wages they were offered down south? Pay McGeown what Celtic offered and guarantee him a game every week.

And fund this by not signing 10 of the players we've ended up with, none of whom will be missed when they're gone.

And you wouldn't need a recruitment "team" to do this.

It's McCowan. Not McGeown.

Hibs cannot match those clubs in wages, no. Not even close. Many things to blame the club for, that isn't one.

[B.H.F.C]

I know. But it's about the recruitment strategy - I just don't see one - random players just seem to turn up every week.

We need a couple of big names to build a team around - we don't even seem to be trying.

Would Porteous and Nisbet have gone if we'd matched the wages they were offered down south? Pay McGeown what Celtic offered and guarantee him a game every week.

And fund this by not signing 10 of the players we've ended up with, none of whom will be missed when they're gone.

And you wouldn't need a recruitment "team" to do this.

If it was as easy as that then we’d all just do it. It’s just completely unrealistic.

[Hibernian Verse]

I know. But it's about the recruitment strategy - I just don't see one - random players just seem to turn up every week.

We need a couple of big names to build a team around - we don't even seem to be trying.

Would Porteous and Nisbet have gone if we'd matched the wages they were offered down south? Pay McGeown what Celtic offered and guarantee him a game every week.

And fund this by not signing 10 of the players we've ended up with, none of whom will be missed when they're gone.

And you wouldn't need a recruitment "team" to do this.

You've cited signing McCowan, but then said the club isn't trying.

We can't match those sides or you blow the budget and have disgruntled squad members or even worse they turn out to be a flop and you've given them a 4 year deal. Have we not learned with Jair? Wage structure is important.

[Hibiza]

Needs to tell the players to stop the booking / sending offs and to look up before a pass .simple

[Hibiza]

At least Newell will be missing , hopefully forever.

[flash]

At least Newell will be missing , hopefully forever.

That's the spirit.

[The Modfather]

I don't think Gray is out of his depth at all.

Yes, he'll be making the odd mistake, the same as players, refs, recruitments teams etc do.

But we're not struggling primarily because of Gray's inexperience or the mistakes he's making.

Could some of his subs have been better? Maybe. We know that what he's tried hasn't worked, what we don't have is a guarantee that trying something different would have necessarily have worked better. The squad is thin, he has severe problems in certain key areas and can only work with what he's got.

I just don't see how a manager is culpable for the touch Newell takes under little pressure in midfield at 2-1 up - and that's what went on to cost us the game. Were there credible alternatives for Newell being on the park at that stage of the game that even with hindsight we can say that Gray should have reached for? I don't think so. Should he be subbing Triantis last week? Bold move making such a move so early, one that only makes sense with said hindsight.

Personally I'm very much of the persevere, keep the faith mindset right now. The squad is a shambles because of the churn of managers and players we've had for 5 years. The solution is unlikely to be more of what caused the problem in the first place.

Gray is culpable for making the same mistakes as his predecessors IMO. Rather than moving on from Newell and Campbell he’s given one a contract extension and captaincy, and tried to make a starter out of the other. He’s also played Cadden as our right winger for the last 3 games, and stuck rigidly to 4231

All failings of the previous managers he’s worked under and what was pointed out when he was appointed as would see him also struggle if he has the same blind spots.

[Scotty Leither]

How much did we spend?

I don’t think it was ever said that there would be game changing amounts spent in the summer, but happy to stand corrected if you can show my that.

I think they said that the investment would be game changing, and Foley said we would have a few million to spend in the summer. Of course, these statements were made when we looked on track for a top four, rather than eighth finish.

I’m not having a dig at you Matty, but I think you’re being a bit disingenuous there…the phrase “game changer” was being banded around at the meeting when the vote went through to bring the BKs on board.

Kensell was strutting around like a peacock and even MacPherson seemed to break into a smile.

“Game changing investment “ was certainly the buzz phrase of the night. You can forgive the fans for thinking that meant “game changing” ON the park.

I know I certainly did but it looks like we’ve been had by the Golden Quadrangle once again.

[Centre Hawf]

I’m not having a dig at you Matty, but I think you’re being a bit disingenuous there…the phrase “game changer” was being banded around at the meeting when the vote went through to bring the BKs on board.

Kensell was strutting around like a peacock and even MacPherson seemed to break into a smile.

“Game changing investment “ was certainly the buzz phrase of the night. You can forgive the fans for thinking that meant “game changing” ON the park.

I know I certainly did but it looks like we’ve been had by the Golden Quadrangle once again.

Ben Kensell said it was a game changer for us and Scottish Football, Bill Foley said there would be a few million to spend this summer. We were initially earmarking the cash to make improvements at HTC I believe and then it was said to be scrapped to spend on the team now.

Other than Bowie and attempts for McCowan I can't really say hand on heart we've signed anyone that showed me we had a 'game changing' investment or 'millions to spend'. Obviously free agents aren't really free when you maybe have to pay them £50k here or there to come sign initially or their agents want cash as well. But all the business kind of feels similar in scale to previous seasons, just this time with a more British background to it than the likes of Gambia, Norway, and the USA.

[MWHIBBIES]

At least Newell will be missing , hopefully forever.

We're 100% a weaker squad without him on Sunday. Not a good thing.

[Brightside]

We're 100% a weaker squad without him on Sunday. Not a good thing.

We arent tho yeh. Even if hes a favourite player of some - him missing doesnt make us 100% worse.

[Smartie]

Gray is culpable for making the same mistakes as his predecessors IMO. Rather than moving on from Newell and Campbell he’s given one a contract extension and captaincy, and tried to make a starter out of the other. He’s also played Cadden as our right winger for the last 3 games, and stuck rigidly to 4231

All failings of the previous managers he’s worked under and what was pointed out when he was appointed as would see him also struggle if he has the same blind spots.

I take the point about Newell - I wouldn't have been renewing that contract.

But in terms of the midfield - he probably had to work with someone who was already here and Kwon and Triantis were signed to be starters. McCowan may have been intended to be the third midfielder, therefore ideally no Newell or Campbell in his first choice team. Having signed a new GK, 2 CHs and Myko to play up front, that makes an enture new spine, does he really merit criticism for the one player he felt he might have to retain in there until they are replaced?

Cadden at RW - who are all of the better options out there whilst Boyle has been out?

Sticking rigidly to 4231 - does he not have the right to try something up to the point it appears not to be working? I hate the formation but arguably it suits many of our players and arguably makes sense as much as any other formation. We'll see how other formations get on with these players.

Personally I reckon that if we're on Gray's back, we'd have been on any experienced manager's back by now. The Aberdeen guy? He'd be getting the same results with these players imo.

I don't think this is on the manager head coach. The problem we have is that his is the only position that EVER comes with any accountability, therefore stick or twist with the head coach is about all we ever seem to be able to think about varying.

[Smartie]

We're 100% a weaker squad without him on Sunday. Not a good thing.

We're 100% weaker without "good day" Newell.

There is absolutely no guarantee that he's who we would be getting, in fact it's more likely we'd be getting "rash early booking" Newell.

He's lost my trust tbh.

[matty_f]

I’m not having a dig at you Matty, but I think you’re being a bit disingenuous there…the phrase “game changer” was being banded around at the meeting when the vote went through to bring the BKs on board.

Kensell was strutting around like a peacock and even MacPherson seemed to break into a smile.

“Game changing investment “ was certainly the buzz phrase of the night. You can forgive the fans for thinking that meant “game changing” ON the park.

I know I certainly did but it looks like we’ve been had by the Golden Quadrangle once again.

I don’t think so - they explained on the night where the money was going, game changing allowed us to do stuff we couldn’t otherwise, at least not quickly, and I don’t think for a minute they expected us to fall like we did under Monty on the pitch.

They have spent money - I’m sure the accounts will reflect it, and you saw very clearly where the money was going, so I don’t think it’s me who’s being disingenuous here - folk are choosing which parts of the messages they want to hear and hang on to and which they want to ignore.

It’s also worth saying that the investment and relationship with BKFC may yet still turn out to be game changing, that it hasn’t happened immediately doesn’t mean it won’t be.

[matty_f]

Ben Kensell said it was a game changer for us and Scottish Football, Bill Foley said there would be a few million to spend this summer. We were initially earmarking the cash to make improvements at HTC I believe and then it was said to be scrapped to spend on the team now.

Other than Bowie and attempts for McCowan I can't really say hand on heart we've signed anyone that showed me we had a 'game changing' investment or 'millions to spend'. Obviously free agents aren't really free when you maybe have to pay them £50k here or there to come sign initially or their agents want cash as well. But all the business kind of feels similar in scale to previous seasons, just this time with a more British background to it than the likes of Gambia, Norway, and the USA.

I think we signed 11 players including players that had a fee involved.

I think we’re grossly understating how much that costs.

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t think so - they explained on the night where the money was going, game changing allowed us to do stuff we couldn’t otherwise, at least not quickly, and I don’t think for a minute they expected us to fall like we did under Monty on the pitch.

They have spent money - I’m sure the accounts will reflect it, and you saw very clearly where the money was going, so I don’t think it’s me who’s being disingenuous here - folk are choosing which parts of the messages they want to hear and hang on to and which they want to ignore.

It’s also worth saying that the investment and relationship with BKFC may yet still turn out to be game changing, that it hasn’t happened immediately doesn’t mean it won’t be.

Of all the criticisms there can be of the current regime, lack of spending can’t be one of them. I always find it a strange criticism. We lost millions in the last accounts, how much more were we meant to spend. We pay substantial fees most summers now as well.

We’ve signed a lot of ***** and wasted millions, but there can’t be any doubt we’ve spent a fortune to be this bad.

[matty_f]

Of all the criticisms there can be of the current regime, lack of spending can’t be one of them. I always find it a strange criticism. We lost millions in the last accounts, how much more were we meant to spend. We pay substantial fees most summers now as well.

We’ve signed a lot of ***** and wasted millions, but there can’t be any doubt we’ve spent a fortune to be this bad.

Exactly. Doing things on the cheap isn’t the problem. Doing them badly is.

[MWHIBBIES]

We're 100% weaker without "good day" Newell.

There is absolutely no guarantee that he's who we would be getting, in fact it's more likely we'd be getting "rash early booking" Newell.

He's lost my trust tbh.


We arent tho yeh. Even if hes a favourite player of some - him missing doesnt make us 100% worse.

Sorry. I meant that we are without doubt worse. There is just no way Campbell, Levitt, or NMW would be better options than him from the bench.

[GreenCastle]

Exactly. Doing things on the cheap isn’t the problem. Doing them badly is.

Yup - wasted millions on poor players who have had limited input and minimal sell on value. Several players collecting a monthly wage who do absolutely nothing for the club.

Getting managers and players into the club isn’t an issue but the right ones is a totally different story.

The term reckless comes to mind !

[The Modfather]

I take the point about Newell - I wouldn't have been renewing that contract.

But in terms of the midfield - he probably had to work with someone who was already here and Kwon and Triantis were signed to be starters. McCowan may have been intended to be the third midfielder, therefore ideally no Newell or Campbell in his first choice team. Having signed a new GK, 2 CHs and Myko to play up front, that makes an enture new spine, does he really merit criticism for the one player he felt he might have to retain in there until they are replaced?

Cadden at RW - who are all of the better options out there whilst Boyle has been out?

Sticking rigidly to 4231 - does he not have the right to try something up to the point it appears not to be working? I hate the formation but arguably it suits many of our players and arguably makes sense as much as any other formation. We'll see how other formations get on with these players.

Personally I reckon that if we're on Gray's back, we'd have been on any experienced manager's back by now. The Aberdeen guy? He'd be getting the same results with these players imo.

I don't think this is on the manager head coach. The problem we have is that his is the only position that EVER comes with any accountability, therefore stick or twist with the head coach is about all we ever seem to be able to think about varying.

I don’t think Gray is the root cause for where we find ourselves. However one of the key reasons for appointing him was he knew the squad, what was needed and saw first hand the mistakes the previous managers made. I’m not sure I can see any evidence of having learned from what, and more relevantly, who didn’t work under previous managers. It looks like more of the same mistakes and hope for a different outcome IMO.

I don’t think there is, or was, an alternative to Boyle at right wing other than Cadden. Which begs the question why do we have to make the best out of a bad hand, having a right hand side consisting of both Miller & Cadden. Instead of playing a formation that suits what is available? 352. Is that not the kind of thing Monty was criticised for, playing 442 and then trying to make the players fit the formation?

I’m not advocating sacking Gray as doing so in isolation won’t change anything. I’m struggling to see any point in sacking Monty though when Gray is making a lot of the same mistakes as his predecessors and the point of appointing him was he knew what went wrong previously and what needed done differently.

[Centre Hawf]

I think we signed 11 players including players that had a fee involved.

I think we’re grossly understating how much that costs.

But we also signed 15 in the summer of 22/23 including McKirdy and Rocky who will have no doubt cost us varying degrees of cash as well as Boyle who probably in the grand scheme of things cost us money in what we wrote off to get him back.

9 last summer including Youan Vente, Levitt who will have no doubt been decent fees plus whatever smaller fees we paid for Harbottle and Wollacott.

Then we sign 11 this summer with only really Bowie and maybe Iredale that could potentially have cost us transfer fees. The rest are all free agents and loans that I will concede will still cost us something in at least signing on and loan fees but you can't seriously tell me that you look across the business we've done in this last three summer windows and think we've went up a level in our spending? If anything it looks to me we've went backwards on the 23/24 summer window. At the very least the business looks like it's all very much the same.

[eastmainsmsh]

Look at Sunderland under Regis le bris who was lorient manager we missed the boat there

[matty_f]

But we also signed 15 in the summer of 22/23 including McKirdy and Rocky who will have no doubt cost us varying degrees of cash as well as Boyle who probably in the grand scheme of things cost us money in what we wrote off to get him back.

9 last summer including Youan Vente, Levitt who will have no doubt been decent fees plus whatever smaller fees we paid for Harbottle and Wollacott.

Then we sign 11 this summer with only really Bowie and maybe Iredale that could potentially have cost us transfer fees. The rest are all free agents and loans that I will concede will still cost us something in at least signing on and loan fees but you can't seriously tell me that you look across the business we've done in this last three summer windows and think we've went up a level in our spending? If anything it looks to me we've went backwards on the 23/24 summer window. At the very least the business looks like it's all very much the same.

We will see in the accounts, but the idea we’ve not spent a whack of money in the summer is, and I suspect will be shown to be, wrong.

It’s not been spent well but it’s been spent.

The fact that the money that was going to go Dundee for McCowan was being fronted by Ian Gordon and the fact that Gordon had come out and said his family are having to cover the spend on the first team shows that there available money has been spent and more.

[blackpoolhibs]

We will see in the accounts, but the idea we’ve not spent a whack of money in the summer is, and I suspect will be shown to be, wrong.

It’s not been spent well but it’s been spent.

The fact that the money that was going to go Dundee for McCowan was being fronted by Ian Gordon and the fact that Gordon had come out and said his family are having to cover the spend on the first team shows that there available money has been spent and more.

The main reason he's had to put his hand in his pocket is because of the mess we find ourselves in from past player signings, when he was head of recruitment.

[matty_f]

The main reason he's had to put his hand in his pocket is because of the mess we find ourselves in from past player signings, when he was head of recruitment.

Correct.

[Centre Hawf]

We will see in the accounts, but the idea we’ve not spent a whack of money in the summer is, and I suspect will be shown to be, wrong.

It’s not been spent well but it’s been spent.

The fact that the money that was going to go Dundee for McCowan was being fronted by Ian Gordon and the fact that Gordon had come out and said his family are having to cover the spend on the first team shows that there available money has been spent and more.

I think we're probably saying the same thing just in different ways tbf here Matty. I agree we have spent money, probably all of the investment money in some way, but my point is more that this summer wasn't a step up on previous years as stated it would be. The investment money clearly hasn't all, or mostly, gone into the transfer budget as initially stated it would.

If I was to hedge my bets on anything I would say that we've been so poor in recruitment over the last 3 years that actually most of the investment has probably went into covering the blackhole it caused.

[H18 SFR]

I’ve come to the realisation I’ve went full circle and want Neil Lennon back.

[Lago]

I’ve come to the realisation I’ve went full circle and want Neil Lennon back.
I would welcome him with open arms.

[GreenCastle]

Hibs press conference about to start - anyone got the picture on X ?

[Coco Bryce]

I’ve come to the realisation I’ve went full circle and want Neil Lennon back.

Would be a laugh if nothing else.

[Chorley Hibee]

Would be a laugh if nothing else.

I'm still holding out for a chain smoking South American headcase.

[Niffy]

I'm still holding out for a chain smoking South American headcase.

"Hay Gringo - Neiliano Lennonardo here...."

[Cabbage-Patch]

I’ve come to the realisation I’ve went full circle and want Neil Lennon back.

This is kind of where I am. Lennon is an absolute maniac and probably wouldn't be a long term appointment but there was never a dull moment with him and there could be no question of us being "too nice' with him in charge. It wasn't pretty at times and some players would likely not take to him but we regular got results against the OF under his tenure. At this stage I would take him on a short term contract until end of the season.

[MWHIBBIES]

This is kind of where I am. Lennon is an absolute maniac and probably wouldn't be a long term appointment but there was never a dull moment with him and there could be no question of us being "too nice' with him in charge. It wasn't pretty at times and some players would likely not take to him but we regular got results against the OF under his tenure. At this stage I would take him on a short term contract until end of the season.

I watched many dull moments under Neil Lennon. And yes, we were soft as mud under him at times too

[CMac1988]

https://youtu.be/Fmwp4rVsoks?si=AAR3LKhLB4STkdrN

[Northernhibee]

I watched many dull moments under Neil Lennon. And yes, we were soft as mud under him at times too

Yep. Massive revisionism has become commonplace about him since he left.

With the midfield he had to play in the top flight, fourth was pretty much the minimum expected.

[tonyrougier123]

https://youtu.be/Fmwp4rVsoks?si=AAR3LKhLB4STkdrN

Always resolute and assertive in his pressers, no fakery about David Gray. Really needs a massive favour from the squad none bigger than Sunday. It’s not easy trying to keep the faith currently.

[tonyrougier123]

Neil Lennon with backing would be some ride. I’d never shut that door for good, I think he’d work well with Malky Mackay as well. However he’d need a little more patience with a side with very little character in it.

[MWHIBBIES]

Neil Lennon with backing would be some ride. I’d never shut that door for good, I think he’d work well with Malky Mackay as well. However he’d need a little more patience with a side with very little character in it.

Neil Lennon had, at that time, our biggest ever budget according to Dempster irrc. He was backed very well.

[Lago]

Neil Lennon had, at that time, our biggest ever budget according to Dempster irrc. He was backed very well.
Doesn't matter Gray is going nowhere he is the firewall between B, K and M.

[MWHIBBIES]

Doesn't matter Gray is going nowhere he is the firewall between B, K and M.

Gray will go somewhere, same as any other manager, if we continue to toil. Hopefully doesn't come to that.

[GreenCastle]

https://youtu.be/Fmwp4rVsoks?si=AAR3LKhLB4STkdrN

He did slip in that some players lacking in confidence and also mentioned back training Monday which surprises me as you would think they would be back in Sunday for a recovery session after sitting on a bus to Dundee etc.

He also mentioned the importance of the crowd getting behind the team. Ideally fans are loud on Sunday backing the team - as frustrated as many are it would make a massive difference though as always fans will respond to player actions etc.

[Coco Bryce]

He did slip in that some players lacking in confidence and also mentioned back training Monday which surprises me as you would think they would be back in Sunday for a recovery session after sitting on a bus to Dundee etc.

He also mentioned the importance of the crowd getting behind the team. Ideally fans are loud on Sunday backing the team - as frustrated as many are it would make a massive difference though as always fans will respond to player actions etc.

According to some on here the players were still partying on Sunday after an all night sesh! :greengrin

[Iain G]

Neil Lennon with backing would be some ride. I’d never shut that door for good, I think he’d work well with Malky Mackay as well. However he’d need a little more patience with a side with very little character in it.

How to take the current situation and make it even worse? Appoint "Lenny"

[GreenCastle]

According to some on here the players were still partying on Sunday after an all night sesh! :greengrin

Probably partying as they knew they had a day off.

[NC1875]

https://youtu.be/Fmwp4rVsoks?si=AAR3LKhLB4STkdrN

Love to know when it was that “we’ve been good and got it right” David 🤔

[CentreLine]

Love to know when it was that “we’ve been good and got it right” David 🤔

Thankfully the chink of light may be that we showed up v the rangers. Wouldn’t it be good if we are a team that shows up in what are supposed to be the big games?
Good starting point if nothing else.

[Crab apple]

Hopefully we’ll win but I’d take a draw on Sunday and I think that’s probably what will happen. If we lose and follow that up with a loss in Dingwall I wonder whether the board will be tempted to pull the trigger before the international break.

[JimBHibees]

Love to know when it was that “we’ve been good and got it right” David 🤔

Thought he spoke well. Wtf he has to deal with fat smug Brian i have no idea. Think we win Sunday

[NC1875]

Hopefully we’ll win but I’d take a draw on Sunday and I think that’s probably what will happen. If we lose and follow that up with a loss in Dingwall I wonder whether the board will be tempted to pull the trigger before the international break.

Lose on Sunday and Gray shouldn’t see Dingwall imo.

1 win in 9, a derby loss, beaten by Kelty and bottom of the league.

No Hibs manager should survive that.

Hopefully we get a win and kick on!

[JimBHibees]

Lose on Sunday and Gray shouldn’t see Dingwall imo.

1 win in 9, a derby loss, beaten by Kelty and bottom of the league.

No Hibs manager should survive that.

Hopefully we get a win and kick on!

Sometimes we need to be patient with managers

[easty]

Sometimes we need to be patient with managers

More patient than we are with players? Cos some of them are written off with less games than he’s had.

[Brizo]

Going back to the threads title I think SDG is less out of his depth than Maloney, Johnson or Montgomery were. He's undoubtedly made a number of mistakes and made some repeated mistakes but has been let down badly by players making individual errors and bad decisions. There's only so much of that lack of concentration and poor decision-making that can be coached out of a player although dropping the regular culprits might be the best way to improve their focus on the pitch.

I thought we played well for large chunks of the game at Tannadice and overall the football played has been much more enjoyable than under the three previous managers. I'm not suggesting we're in a false position because to add one cliche to another the table doesn't lie but I've still got faith that SDG can turn things around and should be given the time to do so.

I'm no "happy clapper" but unless we become detached from the teams round about us I do think he should be given more time to turn it around. If we do get detached by a few points the Board will have a huge decision to make, one that will reflect as poorly on their managerial choices as it will on the performances of those they've employed.

[Jones28]

Lose on Sunday and Gray shouldn’t see Dingwall imo.

1 win in 9, a derby loss, beaten by Kelty and bottom of the league.

No Hibs manager should survive that.

Hopefully we get a win and kick on!

9 league games is no time for a manager, let alone a manager in their first job.

Gray has made some mistakes, but this run is not all on him.

[bingo70]

9 league games is no time for a manager, let alone a manager in their first job.

Gray has made some mistakes, but this run is not all on him.

I agree to an extent, lose on Sunday won’t see him lose his job and probably quite rightly. We thought he was the right man for the job so we’ve got to back that up.

What I’m not clear on is how long is a reasonable time frame and do we risk getting cut adrift at the bottom of the league? Does he get the season regardless of what’s happening on the park? Does he get until Christmas or is half a season for a new manager not enough either?

I think change will come when the Gordon’s sell or hand over the running to the Black Knights, neither of those things are happening in the next week I wouldn’t have thought.

[B.H.F.C]

I agree to an extent, lose on Sunday won’t see him lose his job and probably quite rightly. We thought he was the right man for the job so we’ve got to back that up.

What I’m not clear on is how long is a reasonable time frame and do we risk getting cut adrift at the bottom of the league? Does he get the season regardless of what’s happening on the park? Does he get until Christmas or is half a season for a new manager not enough either?

I think change will come when the Gordon’s sell or hand over the running to the Black Knights, neither of those things are happening in the next week I wouldn’t have thought.

I don’t think he’d get sacked on the back of a defeat on Sunday but it would probably take him to the point where he was a dead man walking and he’d need a ridiculously good run of results thereafter.

I think he has four games leading up to the international break, 3 at home and 1 away to Ross County, to turn things round and save his job.

Folk will say it’s too early and we need to back him but you can’t just let things go on indefinitely. Time has to be earned, not just given and the only way to earn it is through results. Or at least through some form of improvement which there is very little evidence of so far.

[Hibs3-2]

We have treated legends at the club bad before but, regardless what happens on sunday, if we sack Gray after 9 games then that will be unforgivable for alot of fans. Myself included

He, more than anyone, deserves time. I also firmly believe he will be a success with us - starting on sunday

[B.H.F.C]

We have treated legends at the club bad before but, regardless what happens on sunday, if we sack Gray after 9 games then that will be unforgivable for alot of fans. Myself included

He, more than anyone, deserves time. I also firmly believe he will be a success with us - starting on sunday

If results continue as they are there is one outcome, time can’t be given based on who he is. Hibs have given him a huge opportunity so he needs to take it, I think we’ve done the opposite of treating him badly.

Praying we can get a result on Sunday.

[Jones28]

I agree to an extent, lose on Sunday won’t see him lose his job and probably quite rightly. We thought he was the right man for the job so we’ve got to back that up.

What I’m not clear on is how long is a reasonable time frame and do we risk getting cut adrift at the bottom of the league? Does he get the season regardless of what’s happening on the park? Does he get until Christmas or is half a season for a new manager not enough either?

I think change will come when the Gordon’s sell or hand over the running to the Black Knights, neither of those things are happening in the next week I wouldn’t have thought.

IMO he gets kept in the job, backed more than adequately in January and given the chance to see how it goes.

It all depends on where we are half way through the season.

If we get cut adrift at the bottom things start to get difficult - FWIW I don't think we will.

What I think will happen is we will draw on Sunday, pick up 3 points at Ross County and once we show we can keep 11 players on the pitch it will show that we can win games and individual errors are what's costing us. Aberdeen will be a big test.

[Onion]

I agree to an extent, lose on Sunday won’t see him lose his job and probably quite rightly. We thought he was the right man for the job so we’ve got to back that up.

What I’m not clear on is how long is a reasonable time frame and do we risk getting cut adrift at the bottom of the league? Does he get the season regardless of what’s happening on the park? Does he get until Christmas or is half a season for a new manager not enough either?

I think change will come when the Gordon’s sell or hand over the running to the Black Knights, neither of those things are happening in the next week I wouldn’t have thought.

SDG will not get fired this week, irrespective of result. Gordon snd Kensall are more invested in SDG than previous managers. They could not look Foley in the eye, and it would be yet another financial disaster. Suspect G&K will dig their heels in, too arrogant to admit another mistake, and will double down on their trust-the-process line.

[MelbourneHibees]

We have treated legends at the club bad before but, regardless what happens on sunday, if we sack Gray after 9 games then that will be unforgivable for alot of fans. Myself included

He, more than anyone, deserves time. I also firmly believe he will be a success with us - starting on sunday
Giving him more time than any other manager would get simply because he is a club legend is exactly the reason he should not have been anywhere near the job in the first place.

[andrew70]

Giving him more time than any other manager would get simply because he is a club legend is exactly the reason he should not have been anywhere near the job in the first place.

100%. No room for even more sentiment.

[Donegal Hibby]

Giving him more time than any other manager would get simply because he is a club legend is exactly the reason he should not have been anywhere near the job in the first place.

Disagree .. we have got to give some manager a chance at some point. We simply can’t keep sacking managers after 3 games , 3 months , under a year .

It’s a costly business and isn’t getting us anywhere … when you look at the patience and support Motherwell showed to Kettlewell or Killie did .

I think there’s a lesson for us to see in giving a manager time ..

[Stuart93]

Disagree .. we have got to give some manager a chance at some point. We simply can’t keep sacking managers after 3 games , 3 months , under a year .

It’s a costly business and isn’t getting us anywhere … when you look at the patience and support Motherwell showed to Kettlewell or Killie did .

I think there’s a lesson for us to see in giving a manager time ..

We can’t just give time to a manager who isn’t performing well though

We’re bottom of the league going into November. If that’s still the case come the new year we can’t just give him time to see if he’ll get it right

The issue is we keep hiring managers that aren’t good enough

[Jones28]

Giving him more time than any other manager would get simply because he is a club legend is exactly the reason he should not have been anywhere near the job in the first place.


100%. No room for even more sentiment.


We can’t just give time to a manager who isn’t performing well though

We’re bottom of the league going into November. If that’s still the case come the new year we can’t just give him time to see if he’ll get it right

The issue is we keep hiring managers that aren’t good enough

No room for sentiment, perhaps. I think thats been proven with letting Hanlon and Stevenson leave.

We have hired 4 managers under the current regime, 3 of them have been sacked, and the current incumbents in the board room also sacked Ross. IMO if Gray is bottom and cut adrift by Christmas he needs replacing and Kensall should be sacked at the same time.

[Centre Hawf]

We can’t just give time to a manager who isn’t performing well though

We’re bottom of the league going into November. If that’s still the case come the new year we can’t just give him time to see if he’ll get it right

The issue is we keep hiring managers that aren’t good enough

I sit in the middle currently on the sacking Dave Gray argument, I don't think it's jotters for him if we lose on Sunday (I reserve the right to change my mind depending on how bad it gets though), he also can't be allowed to have us bottom come New Year, it just can't get to that point at all.

I think the point of no return for me currently is if we're bottom still come 5pm a week on Sunday then he can't have any complaints if he is sacked, that's despite how much I think other people are also at fault. No Hibs manager should be bottom of the league for 4/5 games on the bounce.

[Stuart93]

No room for sentiment, perhaps. I think thats been proven with letting Hanlon and Stevenson leave.

We have hired 4 managers under the current regime, 3 of them have been sacked, and the current incumbents in the board room also sacked Ross. IMO if Gray is bottom and cut adrift by Christmas he needs replacing and Kensall should be sacked at the same time.

I reckon Kensell should be sacked regardless

Been an utter cluster**** on the pitch since he came in

[Donegal Hibby]

We can’t just give time to a manager who isn’t performing well though

We’re bottom of the league going into November. If that’s still the case come the new year we can’t just give him time to see if he’ll get it right

The issue is we keep hiring managers that aren’t good enough

We had JR who got us 3rd and sacked him in his first bad run , we had another manager who got us into Europe after finishing a respectably 5th and was sacked after losing his first 3 games …

Both Motherwell and the Killie manager have had bad runs but they stuck with them , we would probably have been shouting for their heads and sacked them.

Our results haven’t been good enough though performance wise I don’t think they have been bad and we are to far away from turning it around , just my opinion though.

No disrespect to anyone here though .. we aren’t rooted to the bottom and can turn things around though the mass hysteria on here from criticising the players to sacking the manager and his staff , getting rid of the board I think this place has gone a fair bit OTT in it’s gone bananas…

Poor tea lady must be s****** herself that she’s next on the list 😂

[easty]

Disagree .. we have got to give some manager a chance at some point. We simply can’t keep sacking managers after 3 games , 3 months , under a year .

It’s a costly business and isn’t getting us anywhere … when you look at the patience and support Motherwell showed to Kettlewell or Killie did .

I think there’s a lesson for us to see in giving a manager time ..

You said the same about Monty. Sticking with someone just because others have failed is completely insane to me. I'm not arguing for SDG to be sacked just now, but there will never be a point where I think we should stick with him because sacking other managers hasn't helped. We keep appointing the wrong people. Maloney/Monty/SDG were very obviously the wrong people in my opinion.

As to Motherwell, they stuck with Kettlewell when I think I'd have wanted him booted out the door, but how they're doing now isn't a sign that they made the right decision. Motherwell aren't a good side. Aye, they're picking up a few points just now, but it's only 8 games into the season, I thought they were ***** against us, and they'll not keep this up.

[Stuart93]

We had JR who got us 3rd and sacked him in his first bad run , we had another manager who got us into Europe after finishing a respectably 5th and was sacked after losing his first 3 games …

Both Motherwell and the Killie manager have had bad runs but they stuck with them , we would probably have been shouting for their heads and sacked them.

Our results haven’t been good enough though performance wise I don’t think they have been bad and we are to far away from turning it around , just my opinion though.

No disrespect to anyone here though .. we aren’t rooted to the bottom and can turn things around though the mass hysteria on here from criticising the players to sacking the manager and his staff , getting rid of the board I think this place has gone a fair bit OTT in it’s gone bananas…

Poor tea lady must be s****** herself that she’s next on the list 😂

It’s not really gone bananas though has it. We’ve just progressively got worse until we’ve ended up at this point.

I don’t think anyones said we’re rooted to the bottom but having signed almost a full squad of players in the summer with aspirations of reaching Europe and a new manager in charge, people are rightly pissed off with everything hibs that we find ourselves bottom after so many games.

You’re positive, that’s your thing I get that but you can’t really call this hysteria when we’ve been heading this way for a while.

[Iain G]

We can’t just give time to a manager who isn’t performing well though

We’re bottom of the league going into November. If that’s still the case come the new year we can’t just give him time to see if he’ll get it right

The issue is we keep hiring managers that aren’t good enough

We can't keep sacking managers after a few months of and then expecting the next appointment to make it all better again, then they dont and rinse and repeat etc etc.

SDG has earned enough credit that we shouldn't be paying for his head after 9 league games.

[Stuart93]

We can't keep sacking managers after a few months of and then expecting the next appointment to make it all better again, then they dont and rinse and repeat etc etc.

SDG has earned enough credit that we shouldn't be paying for his head after 9 league games.

You mean exactly what Aberdeen have done?

The right appointment can make it better. We just haven’t found one who has

[Heisenberg]

We had JR who got us 3rd and sacked him in his first bad run , we had another manager who got us into Europe after finishing a respectably 5th and was sacked after losing his first 3 games …

Both Motherwell and the Killie manager have had bad runs but they stuck with them , we would probably have been shouting for their heads and sacked them.

Our results haven’t been good enough though performance wise I don’t think they have been bad and we are to far away from turning it around , just my opinion though.

No disrespect to anyone here though .. we aren’t rooted to the bottom and can turn things around though the mass hysteria on here from criticising the players to sacking the manager and his staff , getting rid of the board I think this place has gone a fair bit OTT in it’s gone bananas…

Poor tea lady must be s****** herself that she’s next on the list 😂

I agree that some of our performances have been ok and we 100% should have more points on the board, fact is though we don’t. We need to start winning and hopefully that happens on Sunday, there’s only so long we can hold on waiting for things to turn.

[IanM]

David needs his players to perform to their capacity tomorrow and the rest of the season.. we haven’t seen it yet.. too much to ask? Feels like it.. but he’ll get my backing until he can’t

[Donegal Hibby]

You said the same about Monty. Sticking with someone just because others have failed is completely insane to me. I'm not arguing for SDG to be sacked just now, but there will never be a point where I think we should stick with him because sacking other managers hasn't helped. We keep appointing the wrong people. Maloney/Monty/SDG were very obviously the wrong people in my opinion.

As to Motherwell, they stuck with Kettlewell when I think I'd have wanted him booted out the door, but how they're doing now isn't a sign that they made the right decision. Motherwell aren't a good side. Aye, they're picking up a few points just now, but it's only 8 games into the season, I thought they were ***** against us, and they'll not keep this up.

I did indeed even though I was critical of some of the performances and did say an unwillingness to change things would cost him his job …

It’s not about sticking with someone because others have failed but more of trying to give them a chance to turn things around .. 3 , 9 games or 3 months isn’t significant time to do that IMO…

I think most would have wanted Kettlewell to get the boot if he had been here on his bad run so your not alone in that one ..

Maybe they’re not a good side but they are 5th and picking up a few points though I agree with you in it’s probably to early to say yet as you say “ ITS ONLY 8 GAMES INTO THE NEW SEASON “ , sorry for highlighting this though I think it also should apply to our manager as well .

[Murphys Touch]

Football is results business. Bottom of the league, dire decision making ("I've learned from the mistakes of others") in the league cup and a a connection with the fans that is going backwards despite being a cup winning legend.

Regardless of anyone's view on time, whats right or wrong....it's the industry he is in and can have very few complaints if he gets the chop. But he is a novice coach, getting arguably top 5 job in the country that needed MAJOR work on and off the park. He's been very fortunate to get it in the first place.

I agree with the CEO, DOF, Chairman need to have a look and sort things out. THIER decisions are the basis of all of this but SDG has been poor.

We've started Chris Cadden right wing in last 2 games with Boyle and Youan on the bench. SDG role is to get the best players on the park, to get into their mind, get them fit and get points. CC at right wing is not that

[Donegal Hibby]

I agree that some of our performances have been ok and we 100% should have more points on the board, fact is though we don’t. We need to start winning and hopefully that happens on Sunday, there’s only so long we can hold on waiting for things to turn.

I agree that things need to change and we can’t carry on indefinitely losing games though we can give him more time especially as some of the performances haven’t been bad .. apart from the opening day which was a terrible result and Celtic beating us 2-0 we’ve only lost the other 3 by a single goal with two of the games being turned upside down due to us going down to ten men .

As you say hopefully it starts on Sunday 🤞

[Centre Hawf]

I did indeed even though I was critical of some of the performances and did say an unwillingness to change things would cost him his job …

It’s not about sticking with someone because others have failed but more of trying to give them a chance to turn things around .. 3 , 9 games or 3 months isn’t significant time to do that IMO…

I think most would have wanted Kettlewell to get the boot if he had been here on his bad run so your not alone in that one ..

Maybe they’re not a good side but they are 5th and picking up a few points though I agree with you in it’s probably to early to say yet as you say “ ITS ONLY 8 GAMES INTO THE NEW SEASON “ , sorry for highlighting this though I think it also should apply to our manager as well .

I think I do agree with you in that this time with Gray we should give him time to break through the mediocrity barrier over a period of time rather than do it all in just one season, our problems are too far rooted to achieve that this season. That level of expectation has obviously seen the likes of Monty, LJ and Maloney all punted and we can definitely learn from that, but their failures at the time were for not getting top 6, except in LJ's case where it was an accumulation of different things.

The problem is we aren't sitting 8th or 9th potentially missing out on top 6 like the others had us, we're rock bottom with a very real threat that we can find ourselves at least more than one game adrift there over the next week. That would be a terrible place to be going into mid November. You would have no choice but to accept that we are in the first stages of a relegation battle at that point and not a case of hoping to be better than just bottom 6.

If we can pick up a couple of results and lift ourselves up the table a bit and put a bit of safety between us and bottom then I think most of us will be happy to let Gray crack on at turning this honking ship around a bit and hopefully do something longer term like in your examples to Kettlewell etc. But in the immediate short term of the next 10 days we could be left with no choice but to pull the trigger and find someone who can fix a problem early before it becomes something much more serious at New Year and we're left trying to claw back a multiple game gap to just make the playoffs.

[Skol]

I think it’s a very tricky situation. My default positionis to give managers the benefit of the doubt and more time.

Looking back over the last few managers

Lennon had to go as he had clearly lost it

Ross was on a poor run, but had been let down by recruitment, but had enough credit in the bank to be given time. What we would give now for third place, Europe, regular hampden appearances or even just one of those

Maloney was a gamble and I admit I broke my rule with him and wanted him out. Looking back though I realise he was also very badly let down on the players front, albeit he made some of his own awful choices

Johnston was a maverick, but he had some experience. We had ups and downs but whilst he was on a bad run, we again arguably acted too soon, albeit I was getting to the stage where I thought change was required

Monty I felt was disliked from the very start by a small vocal minority and then that number grew. I think he deserved a summer window and more time

Gray was a huge risk of an appointment and clearly is learning on the job. The decision is made and we need to back him regardless of the outcome on Sunday.


The constant across all of these have been in the club and recruitment, but also the vocal fans who want instant success and have no patience.

So back to where I started, it’s a tricky situation but we can’t just fire and hire again and hope for a better outcome.

[Saint Hibee]

David needs his players to perform to their capacity tomorrow and the rest of the season.. we haven’t seen it yet.. too much to ask? Feels like it.. but he’ll get my backing until he can’t

Performing to their capacity on Sunday would also be much appreciated!

[Callum_62]

I think it’s a very tricky situation. My default positionis to give managers the benefit of the doubt and more time.

Looking back over the last few managers

Lennon had to go as he had clearly lost it

Ross was on a poor run, but had been let down by recruitment, but had enough credit in the bank to be given time. What we would give now for third place, Europe, regular hampden appearances or even just one of those

Maloney was a gamble and I admit I broke my rule with him and wanted him out. Looking back though I realise he was also very badly let down on the players front, albeit he made some of his own awful choices

Johnston was a maverick, but he had some experience. We had ups and downs but whilst he was on a bad run, we again arguably acted too soon, albeit I was getting to the stage where I thought change was required

Monty I felt was disliked from the very start by a small vocal minority and then that number grew. I think he deserved a summer window and more time

Gray was a huge risk of an appointment and clearly is learning on the job. The decision is made and we need to back him regardless of the outcome on Sunday.


The constant across all of these have been in the club and recruitment, but also the vocal fans who want instant success and have no patience.

So back to where I started, it’s a tricky situation but we can’t just fire and hire again and hope for a better outcome.The thing about Gray though for me anyway, is he has nothing to evidence him actually be decent

He's the last one id give a prolonged period of time due to him having almost no experience

Hope he starts to turn it around tomorrow but at what point is the cut off that it's accepted he isn't working?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[NC1875]

I agree that things need to change and we can’t carry on indefinitely losing games though we can give him more time especially as some of the performances haven’t been bad .. apart from the opening day which was a terrible result and Celtic beating us 2-0 we’ve only lost the other 3 by a single goal with two of the games being turned upside down due to us going down to ten men .

As you say hopefully it starts on Sunday 🤞

He will get more time, but a defeat on Sunday and then he has the Ross County game to save his job imo. Unless it gets ugly on Sunday.

Terrible position to be in. Was so clear he was never what we needed in the summer but Kensell and Gordon have put themselves in an awkward position.

Stick or twist.

Hopefully we win on Sunday and kick on from there. But if we don’t, they’re either going to have to double down and back him or admit they got it wrong. AGAIN!!!

GGTTH

[Groathillgrump]

We can't keep sacking managers after a few months of and then expecting the next appointment to make it all better again, then they dont and rinse and repeat etc etc.

SDG has earned enough credit that we shouldn't be paying for his head after 9 league games.

Will this be the credit he earned for the cup winning goal?

While David will always hold a very special place in our hearts for ending 114 years of pain, it's now 8 years ago and what has he done since then to top-up that credit?

He's been on the coaching staff of several failed managers and yet he's been given a job he's definitely not got the experience for IMHO. We really aren't in a position to have someone learning on the job.

I hope we turn the corner very soon (Sunday would be great day to start!) but the signs so far haven't been promising.

[percy veer]

He's been getting away with it as hearts were terrible, must win sun or time to go , to think if we just appointed mccinnes before.the last few managers we could have had a few steady seasons and that's all we really needed to get into europe

[blackpoolhibs]

We had JR who got us 3rd and sacked him in his first bad run , we had another manager who got us into Europe after finishing a respectably 5th and was sacked after losing his first 3 games …

Both Motherwell and the Killie manager have had bad runs but they stuck with them , we would probably have been shouting for their heads and sacked them.

Our results haven’t been good enough though performance wise I don’t think they have been bad and we are to far away from turning it around , just my opinion though.

No disrespect to anyone here though .. we aren’t rooted to the bottom and can turn things around though the mass hysteria on here from criticising the players to sacking the manager and his staff , getting rid of the board I think this place has gone a fair bit OTT in it’s gone bananas…

Poor tea lady must be s****** herself that she’s next on the list 😂

Didnt Ron sack her early into his tenure?

[blackpoolhibs]

Disagree .. we have got to give some manager a chance at some point. We simply can’t keep sacking managers after 3 games , 3 months , under a year .

It’s a costly business and isn’t getting us anywhere … when you look at the patience and support Motherwell showed to Kettlewell or Killie did .

I think there’s a lesson for us to see in giving a manager time ..

I cant get my head around this, have Killie done well or not under McInness?

[Hibiza]

He will get more time, but a defeat on Sunday and then he has the Ross County game to save his job imo. Unless it gets ugly on Sunday.

Terrible position to be in. Was so clear he was never what we needed in the summer but Kensell and Gordon have put themselves in an awkward position.

Stick or twist.

Hopefully we win on Sunday and kick on from there. But if we don’t, they’re either going to have to double down and back him or admit they got it wrong. AGAIN!!!

GGTTH
Perhaps the'll be a big brush ,that'll sweep them all away: Foley.

[MKHIBEE]

Posting without comment

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/roy-keane-tipped-for-surprising-return-to-management-with-scottish-club-338049

[Michael]

It's hard to know at this point what level Gray is at as a manager. Ultimately, we have a rotten squad, by far the worst since we were last relegated.

I'd give Gray some time definitely.

[JimBHibees]

It's hard to know at this point what level Gray is at as a manager. Ultimately, we have a rotten squad, by far the worst since we were last relegated.

I'd give Gray some time definitely.

So would i

[Crab apple]

Posting without comment

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/roy-keane-tipped-for-surprising-return-to-management-with-scottish-club-338049

I know you are not advocating giving Roy Keane the job but if he was to be appointed I'd say that we are more certain to be relegated than we are now.

[Crab apple]

He's been getting away with it as hearts were terrible, must win sun or time to go , to think if we just appointed mccinnes before.the last few managers we could have had a few steady seasons and that's all we really needed to get into europe

McInness was the obvious choice the last few times but I think that ship has sailed now.

[McGruber]

It's hard to know at this point what level Gray is at as a manager. Ultimately, we have a rotten squad, by far the worst since we were last relegated.

I'd give Gray some time definitely.

About the rotten squad

Bursik/Smith

N Cadden
Ekpiteta
O'Hora
Iredale

Kwon
Triantis
Hoilett

Gayle
Myko
Bowie

All signed under Gray, if the squad is still rotten then Gray, MacKay aren't the answer. They've brought in 12. Bowie obviously unlucky with injury.

[Hibees1973]

I don't think Hearts are that great.

Let's be honest. Minsk played behind closed doors and two home games against St Mirren & Omonia are games even a mildly competent Yam team would expect to win.

It's all about us on Sunday. Not them.

Can we get an aberration free display from our lot. I very much doubt it. What Gray should get minimum from his team at home is a disciplined performance when we should easily match them. If it's tight and we lose by the odd goal then fair enough. This has happened numerous times against the Yam anyway.

My fear is the likes of Miller, Obita, Expetita or Bursik will get exposed defensively again in a one on one situation and get sent off. This will lead to defeat cos the team has shown not to have the necessary bottle to cope with any kind of pressure. If this happens again then it is down to Gray for selecting them.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just cannot see Gray being able to get a tune out of our lot and turn this malaise around.

[LaMotta]

I know you are not advocating giving Roy Keane the job but if he was to be appointed I'd say that we are more certain to be relegated than we are now.

Can you imagine his views on Bursik?!:hilarious

[Paulie Walnuts]

Will this be the credit he earned for the cup winning goal?

While David will always hold a very special place in our hearts for ending 114 years of pain, it's now 8 years ago and what has he done since then to top-up that credit?

He's been on the coaching staff of several failed managers and yet he's been given a job he's definitely not got the experience for IMHO. We really aren't in a position to have someone learning on the job.

I hope we turn the corner very soon (Sunday would be great day to start!) but the signs so far haven't been promising.

:agree:

SDG hasn’t built up any credit. What he done as a player is irrelevant to being manager.

Hopefully this Sunday sees him start to build some.

[Hibiza]

Can you imagine his views on Bursik?!:hilarious

Id be sticking with David for the time being, Keane would be a great manager for us.

[john rossi]

If we lose on Sunday which is highly likely given our present form do you think the board will react and give Gray his jotters. IMO because of our embarrassing managerial record Gray will be given more time to turn things around, the flip side of this is we could become detached from the rest of the leauge. I can see 2014 and the Butcher fiasco repeating and championship football next season I really hope Gray can steer us clear of a relegation dog fight but I have my doubts.

[Smartie]

If we lose on Sunday which is highly likely given our present form do you think the board will react and give Gray his jotters. IMO because of our embarrassing managerial record Gray will be given more time to turn things around, the flip side of this is we could become detached from the rest of the leauge. I can see 2014 and the Butcher fiasco repeating and championship football next season I really hope Gray can steer us clear of a relegation dog fight but I have my doubts.

I could see it happening.

The board would be wrong to sack him now though, unless maybe it was a historically bad performance and result and it was clear he’d lost the dressing room - neither of which I expect to be the case.

[gbhibby]

Right Back😁

Irrespective of the result against them the board need to make a decision soon before it is too late to rectify the situation.

[KWJ]

I don't think they will because of what's been said by IG and MM so far this season.

If they do, and MM takes over (even interim) and isn't punted too, then it's an absolute shocker.

For added context, I wasn't for the SDG appointment in the first place. The only way I could see his sacking going down at all well, is if they have a ticks all boxes coup of a manager lined up that even the fans will applaud. So no.

[Unseen work]

I don’t think we will want to give Hearts the pleasure in sacking a manager following a defeat to them.

I think if we fail to beat county he’ll be gone though

There’s the whole giving him time etc but the current form is nowhere near acceptable

[Hibees1973]

Id be sticking with David for the time being, Keane would be a great manager for us.

Keane would be exactly the kind of comedy, attention seeking appointment the Golden Quadrant would make.

However, Keane would p*ssing himself laughing at an interview with these 4 in front of him.

[B.H.F.C]

He won’t be sacked if we lose on Sunday but he would be a dead man walking.

I know there has been a lot of talk about fans not turning on him, but a defeat to them and I think that would start to change a bit. He’d not get the same level of stick as previous managers but there would be a change in attitudes towards him I think.

Biggest derby in a while for him and for us IMO.

[Donegal Hibby]

I know you are not advocating giving Roy Keane the job but if he was to be appointed I'd say that we are more certain to be relegated than we are now.

Totally agree .

[JohnM1875]

Personally think Gray is getting a season at least. Unless it's truly awful maybe til Christmas.

We won't sack another manager after a few months. Just isn't going to happen.

[hibsbollah]

Missionary.

[H18 SFR]

Personally think Gray is getting a season at least. Unless it's truly awful maybe til Christmas.

We won't sack another manager after a few months. Just isn't going to happen.

Which in itself is a disaster as he is by far the worse manager we’ve had under the Gordon’s.

[The Tubs]

Missionary.

Fantastic.

[Jim44]

Personally think Gray is getting a season at least. Unless it's truly awful maybe til Christmas.

We won't sack another manager after a few months. Just isn't going to happen.

He won’t get a season, especially if we lose most of the next few games, which is highly likely. If we are stranded at the foot of the league going into 2025 he will definitely be sacked. The ‘Peter’ principle will be implemented.

[Donegal Hibby]

I would have thought a thread about Gray being ‘ out of his depth ‘ would have covered his position and there was no need for this one from the same poster ! .

[Northernhibee]

Fantastic.

I mean it’s OK, but if I were to describe what I would actually class as fantastic then I’d have a lifetime ban on here and wouldn’t be able to look any fellow Hibby in the eye going forward.

[Hibees1973]

Think if we get beat on Sunday the Golden Quadrant will circle the wagons and sit tight.

Defeat then at Ross County on Wednesday night would have to result in a completely humiliating sacking of Gray. We would at that stage be cut adrift several points behind at the bottom of the table.

Dubious Malky will then take over and remain in situ until the Dundee Utd game at home which hopefully will lead to protests, Kensell being booted out and The Gordon's holding their hands up to confirm they are not up to it and state the club is up for sale

[The Tubs]

I mean it’s OK, but if I were to describe what I would actually class as fantastic then I’d have a lifetime ban on here and wouldn’t be able to look any fellow Hibby in the eye going forward.

We're just warming up. If we lose on Sunday then it'll be a cluster****.

[Sioux]

I would have thought a thread about Gray being ‘ out of his depth ‘ would have covered his position and there was no need for this one from the same poster ! .

Yip. Pointless thread.

[MWHIBBIES]

Keane would confirm relegation for us. Poor manager and a prick too.

Gray 10x the coach and person.

[Smartie]

Keane would confirm relegation for us. Poor manager and a prick too.

Gray 10x the coach and person.

Unless it gets REALLY bad over the next few months…

I cannot fathom why any hibby wouldn’t want to see David Gray get the chance to improve a few positions in January, start properly shaping next season’s squad from January through to the summer and then judge him properly next season.

When did axing the manager to get a wee boost last work? Hecky to Ross? Before that, Duffy to McLeish?

We’ve been edged out in some tight games lately and have played really quite well in a few. Time to persevere imo. Well, time to pick up a much-needed win but you know what I mean.

The idea that Roy Keane is the solution to our problems is comical, albeit I would relish Matty F finally getting the chance to ask him the biscuit question…

[007]

McInness was the obvious choice the last few times but I think that ship has sailed now.

The ship probably never got out of the dry dock due to him not being interested.

[Stokesy's on fire]

The ship probably never got out of the dry dock due to him not being interested.

He applied for the job once and it was Lee Johnson that got it.

[Since90+2]

The ship probably never got out of the dry dock due to him not being interested.

Another classic .net myth.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Unless it gets REALLY bad over the next few months…

I cannot fathom why any hibby wouldn’t want to see David Gray get the chance to improve a few positions in January, start properly shaping next season’s squad from January through to the summer and then judge him properly next season.

When did axing the manager to get a wee boost last work? Hecky to Ross? Before that, Duffy to McLeish?

We’ve been edged out in some tight games lately and have played really quite well in a few. Time to persevere imo. Well, time to pick up a much-needed win but you know what I mean.

The idea that Roy Keane is the solution to our problems is comical, albeit I would relish Matty F finally getting the chance to ask him the biscuit question…

that biscuit question to Maloney started the malaise the club… Matty Must go! :)

[NC1875]

Unless it gets REALLY bad over the next few months…

I cannot fathom why any hibby wouldn’t want to see David Gray get the chance to improve a few positions in January, start properly shaping next season’s squad from January through to the summer and then judge him properly next season.

When did axing the manager to get a wee boost last work? Hecky to Ross? Before that, Duffy to McLeish?

We’ve been edged out in some tight games lately and have played really quite well in a few. Time to persevere imo. Well, time to pick up a much-needed win but you know what I mean.

The idea that Roy Keane is the solution to our problems is comical, albeit I would relish Matty F finally getting the chance to ask him the biscuit question…

😂 he’s signed a whole squad and made us worse. We’re bottom of the league.

Why should he be given more money to spend and more time when he’s shown already he clearly doesn’t know what he’s doing.

[007]

He applied for the job once and it was Lee Johnson that got it.

Haven't heard that one before. What's the source for that?

[Bostonhibby]

Totally agree .Car crash appointment if it happened, should carry on telling everyone else what they're doing wrong a couple of times a week as a pundit.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

😂 he’s signed a whole squad and made us worse. We’re bottom of the league.

Why should he be given more money to spend and more time when he’s shown already he clearly doesn’t know what he’s doing.

Because giving a succession of managers 10 games or so before deciding they’re not up to scratch is absolutely no way to run a football club.

With every manager we treat like this, the pool who would be interested in taking over shrinks in number and quality every time, therefore the chances of getting the desired reaction shrink.

The positions he hasn’t signed for are the main ones that we’re currently struggling with - attacking midfielder, left sided centre back and the inherited wobbly full backs. The goalie looks like he’s a bit of a disaster, granted.

I’m content that the team generally looks well enough set up. Silly stuff is killing him right now, silly stuff that I reckon would happen under any manager.

[Iain G]

I miss Monty

[The Modfather]

I miss Monty

We’d have snatched enough 2-2 draws from the jaws of victory to be clear of the relegation places and in the heady heights of 8th or 9th. In all seriousness if the choice was Monty or Gray (an experienced manager who could stop the downward spiral and leave the next man something to build on should have been the priority) we should have kept Monty.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Haven't heard that one before. What's the source for that?

I happen to know someone who knows him...he applied and was not even interviewed for the job...Lee Johnson got it.

[Iain G]

We’d have snatched enough 2-2 draws from the jaws of victory to be clear of the relegation places and in the heady heights of 8th or 9th. In all seriousness if the choice was Monty or Gray (an experienced manager who could stop the downward spiral and leave the next man something to build on should have been the priority) we should have kept Monty.

I agree with you. Would have been interesting to see how he rebuilt the team over the summer.

[TrinityHFC]

I agree with you. Would have been interesting to see how he rebuilt the team over the summer.

Quite happy never to find that out.

[Iain G]

Quite happy never to find that out.

Couldn't be any worse than bottom of the league 🤣

[NC1875]

Couldn't be any worse than bottom of the league 🤣

Exactly. Monty used to draw games in the last minute. Gray loses them.

Roll on Sunday, I think I’ll have made my mind up on Gray after that game. Turn up, get in there faces and get a result and I’d be happy to give him time

Another **** show and I don’t think he’ll turn it around.

Going to be a long 40 hours 🙈

[007]

I happen to know someone who knows him...he applied and was not even interviewed for the job...Lee Johnson got it.

Surprising he didn't apply when he'd been out of work for 9 months but did 5 months later when he'd been in the Killie job for 4 months.

[Since452]

I don't think anyone thinks we'll beat Hearts. Would be the most Hibs thing ever if we do.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

I struggle to have any faith in a guy that was part of the coaching staff for several managers that were sacked. He was responsible in part, for the day to day training sessions.

[Golden Bear]

I struggle to have any faith in a guy that was part of the coaching staff for several managers that were sacked. He was responsible in part, for the day to day training sessions.

Exactly. He's been part of the problem and unfortunately still is.

[K-Zazu]

I struggle to have any faith in a guy that was part of the coaching staff for several managers that were sacked. He was responsible in part, for the day to day training sessions.

That’s how I’ve always felt about it all.

[flash]

What a horrible thread this is.

[TrinityHFC]

Couldn't be any worse than bottom of the league 🤣

No, but that’s not really the point is it? I’m more comfortable with our future prospects with Montgomery no longer here.

[Donegal Hibby]

:flag::flag::flag:…….

https://youtu.be/vvrBiPlfjZU?si=eyBmADM9qECT_wlv

[He's here!]

No, but that’s not really the point is it? I’m more comfortable with our future prospects with Montgomery no longer here.

On what basis? We're doing even worse with him no longer here.

We just have to hope, desperately, that Gray can come good. The thought of yet another sacking, coupled with the fact that next summer's supposed 'clearing of the decks' would be holed below the waterline by another raft of signings on long contracts that the next manager wouldn't want.

[hibsbollah]

:flag::flag::flag:…….

https://youtu.be/vvrBiPlfjZU?si=eyBmADM9qECT_wlv

Trawling though .net content and finding this post is like finding a gold nugget in a bag of *****. Great work :flag:

[Brightside]

No, but that’s not really the point is it? I’m more comfortable with our future prospects with Montgomery no longer here.

Based on what? There is nothing to suggest he wasn’t a better coach. And he never got a full summer window. Anyone saying the football is better is doing some heavy assumption.

[7Hero]

I don't think anyone thinks we'll beat Hearts. Would be the most Hibs thing ever if we do.

if you mean they would surpass our expectations then that doesn't sound very hibs like to me..

[FilipinoHibs]

We need to get rid of the Gordons,Mackay and Kensell. Let's hope the Black Knights take full control. Gray would go then. The running of the football side has been a disaster for years. They are clueless.

[NC1875]

No, but that’s not really the point is it? I’m more comfortable with our future prospects with Montgomery no longer here.

Everyone could see all summer we were underprepared and our signings weren’t any better than previous years. Yet you were telling anyone that would listen that we still had ages in the window left and everything would be fine.


I assume you’re now going to give David Gray an endless amount of time to get it right despite the fact all the evidence shows otherwise. Just like in the summer 👍🏼

[easty]

Everyone could see all summer we were underprepared and our signings weren’t any better than previous years. Yet you were telling anyone that would listen that we still had ages in the window left and everything would be fine.


I assume you’re now going to give David Gray an endless amount of time to get it right despite the fact all the evidence shows otherwise. Just like in the summer 👍🏼

You knew before you’d seen any of them play that our summer signings weren’t going to be good enough?

[Libby Hibby]

I don't think anyone thinks we'll beat Hearts. Would be the most Hibs thing ever if we do.

I think we’ll beat them, I don’t really know why but I think we we will.

[Allant1981]

I struggle to have any faith in a guy that was part of the coaching staff for several managers that were sacked. He was responsible in part, for the day to day training sessions.

Sessions put on by the manager, coaches aren't just turning up and doing what they want

[Iain G]

We need to get rid of the Gordons,Mackay and Kensell. Let's hope the Black Knights take full control. Gray would go then. The running of the football side has been a disaster for years. They are clueless.

They can't take full control though.

[Wilson]

Everyone could see all summer we were underprepared and our signings weren’t any better than previous years. Yet you were telling anyone that would listen that we still had ages in the window left and everything would be fine.


I assume you’re now going to give David Gray an endless amount of time to get it right despite the fact all the evidence shows otherwise. Just like in the summer 👍🏼

I think the signings were better than previously. We just didn't get to make enough of them.

We'll make good signings again in January.

We're getting into winning positions and failing from there. Evidence that we can compete but we've weaknesses to address.

The time to address those is the time Gray needs.

[Alfred E Newman]

Right Back😁

Irrespective of the result against them the board need to make a decision soon before it is too late to rectify the situation.

This is the problem. I agree we can't keep sacking managers but how long do you wait if results don't improve? A win tomorrow would lift the gloom even a draw wouldn't be a disaster but no points from our next two games would be.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Last chance saloon for Gray, lose and he must go

[J-C]

Performing to their capacity on Sunday would also be much appreciated!

That's only if their capacity us greater than it has been, what if they're at their max, that's the worry.

[Keith_M]

Last chance saloon for Gray, lose and he must go



28212

[JimBHibees]

Last chance saloon for Gray, lose and he must go

Not for me

[JimBHibees]

Based on what? There is nothing to suggest he wasn’t a better coach. And he never got a full summer window. Anyone saying the football is better is doing some heavy assumption.

Agree would definitely have given him the summer but board bottled it instead of showing proper leadership

[Smartie]

I think the signings were better than previously. We just didn't get to make enough of them.

We'll make good signings again in January.

We're getting into winning positions and failing from there. Evidence that we can compete but we've weaknesses to address.

The time to address those is the time Gray needs.

Pretty much exactly how I see it.

I don’t want to pretend everything is rosy when it is not, but at some point we need to show a bit of patience to see something through, even if it gets a bit uncomfortable along the way.

This side, with a new GK and attacking midfielder is a different proposition imo. That’s one position Gray hasn’t yet addressed and another he’d probably hold his hands up to having got wrong (if he didn’t have to get another couple goals of months and a bit of Bursik’s best out of him).

[McGruber]

Last chance saloon for Gray, lose and he must go

I don't agree that he should go if we lose - but that is what will happen. The recent conversations with Foley and the Black Knights definitely would have included the manager

Lose and he's gone - they have previous

[NC1875]

You knew before you’d seen any of them play that our summer signings weren’t going to be good enough?

Could’ve worded it better yeah.

Not that they weren’t good enough, but that they weren’t of a higher standard than any other signings previously. On paper anyway. Despite the “game changing” investment people could see it was just same old same old.

I think being bottom of the league after 8 games confirms that. Infact, you could say the signings have made us worse.

[Iain G]

I don't agree that he should go if we lose - but that is what will happen. The recent conversations with Foley and the Black Knights definitely would have included the manager

Lose and he's gone - they have previous

I don't think that will happen, yet. I think he will get and should get to the end of the year.

[marinello59]

I don't think that will happen, yet. I think he will get and should get to the end of the year.

If we lose .......if........it's the manner of any defeat that will seal his fate.

[He's here!]

If we lose .......if........it's the manner of any defeat that will seal his fate.

Indeed. A couple of early goals Hearts leading to a 0-4 defeat with barely a Hibs fan left in the stadium and I imagine he'd walk before he was pushed.

However, a battling 1-1 draw, say, with the crowd right behind a Hibs team which gave it everything. That would give him something to build on. I'd take that right now.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't think that will happen, yet. I think he will get and should get to the end of the year.

Would generally agree. The only thing that will see him sacked earlier than that is if we get completely cut adrift. If we become 4 or more behind 11th then I’d suspect he’ll be gone.

[snedzuk]

Would generally agree. The only thing that will see him sacked earlier than that is if we get completely cut adrift. If we become 4 or more behind 11th then I’d suspect he’ll be gone.

Surely it would be the gap to 10th. Anyway, I think we'll win tomorrow. I'm not as confident about Wednesday.

[Callum_62]

Could’ve worded it better yeah.

Not that they weren’t good enough, but that they weren’t of a higher standard than any other signings previously. On paper anyway. Despite the “game changing” investment people could see it was just same old same old.

I think being bottom of the league after 8 games confirms that. Infact, you could say the signings have made us worse.Innocent Bonke would certainly have been a perceived higher level player

Gray preferred Triantis though - not saying he was wrong but that was a choice he made

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Centre Hawf]

Innocent Bonke would certainly have been a perceived higher level player

Gray preferred Triantis though - not saying he was wrong but that was a choice he made

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

You could argue we needed both. But likely couldn’t because we still have stupid money tied up in Kenneh, JDH, Delf, Levitt in the midfield alone.

[Donegal Hibby]

You could argue we needed both. But likely couldn’t because we still have stupid money tied up in Kenneh, JDH, Delf, Levitt in the midfield alone.

TBH I can’t believe how it’s went with Levitt , at the time I thought he was going to be a cracking signing and one I was excited about… unfortunately he’s offered very little so far .

I think Triantis and Kwon have improved our midfield though we lack creativity in there ..

If only we had got McCowan we would have had some midfield …..

Think we will sign someone in January to address this problem in midfield either a very good player on loan or a marquee signing… only one in Scotland I can think on is Lyle Cameron of Dundee though is he a creative midfielder?

[J-C]

I'd love to know if we actually had another option if we didn't get McCowan, not getting that creative mid has really hurt us. Gray's went with solidity in the middle hoping the wide players can create chances, but makes us predictable.

[SON OF PADDY]

I don't think anyone thinks we'll beat Hearts. Would be the most Hibs thing ever if we do.


Speak for yersel, I've got cash on it.
Mon the Cabbage!💷 💷 💷 💷 💷 💷

[Coco Bryce]

Enough is enough.

He's not learning from his mistakes.

Get a real manager in now.

[Phil MaGlass]

Times up SDG, yi need tae step doon. Theres no change, no passion and no vision. We cannae defend wae 15mins tae go.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Enough is enough.

He's not learning from his mistakes.

Get a real manager in now.

I thought we done alright up until taking the lead. Created a few chances.

Absolute shambles after though. Gray is responsible for that.

[DaveF]

Enough is enough.

He's not learning from his mistakes.

Get a real manager in now.

Sadly I agree. It's rinse repeat and not even close to being good enough.

[Coco Bryce]

I thought we done alright up until taking the lead. Created a few chances.

Absolute shambles after though. Gray is responsible for that.

Gray has been responsible for us capitulating too many times this season.

Shocking tactical awareness the last 15 mins of that game.

[Scottie]

Enough is enough.

He's not learning from his mistakes.

Get a real manager in now.
Doesn’t inspire any belief whatsoever. Always a legend but sadly he’s been part of the same problem for the last 4-5 years on the coaching staff.

[crash]

Ellie Youan hasn’t played for ages, gets dropped into an Edinburgh Derby? Gray is ****in clueless, we need a proper manager asap

[Paul1642]

At no point today did it look like there was a game plan until we chose to sit in and invite pressure which was the wrong game plan.

[The Modfather]

It’s a shame, but there doesn’t look to be any redeeming features to a David Gray team. Play the same formation every week, hoof, drop deep and try to nick the game with a set piece. It’s really basic stuff.

We’ve managed to achieve the impossible and slide under last seasons low bar and find a worse manager and squad.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It’s a shame, but there doesn’t look to be any redeeming features to a David Gray team. Play the same formation every week, hoof, drop deep and try to nick the game with a set piece. It’s really basic stuff.

We’ve managed to achieve the impossible and slide under last seasons low bar and find a worse manager and squad.

It’s hardly a surprise. He isn’t even highly qualified and the experience he’s gained has been from dud managers.

[NC1875]

Wow, that was bad.

Sorry David Gray but you’re not the man for the job.

[Centre Hawf]

Blessing in disguise today is that Hearts are ****ing brutal as well. If that was a 'good' hearts team from previous seasons we could have taken a doing.

[mcfly]

He’s not out his depth

He just needs to be brave and drop the boy miller at right back and cancel the loan deal for the goalie as he’s the worst goalie I think I’ve ever seen.

Flaps At everything and his mistake cost the goal by giving away a corner.

Utterly pathetic

[Unseen work]

Said it in another thread but there is just no plan or style

We play with guys like Youan, Hoilet and Boyle. But we have absolutely no idea how to get the ball to these guys, when we do it’s by luck not design

Kwon is good enough to dictate and pass forward and split the lines, for some reason we don’t do it even try to do it

[chrisski33]

Wow, that was bad.

Sorry David Gray but you’re not the man for the job.

Cannae be saying that about Gray! According to some its not allowed and he has done nothing wrong

[Keith_M]

Boyle was quoted in the DR yesterday saying we needed to be more like the team under Jack Ross; winning ugly, closing out games when we're 1-0 up, using the 'dark arts'.


Right now I'd love to be watching the team grinding out results like they were when we finished third under Ross.

[Jones28]

Cannae be saying that about Gray! According to some its not allowed and he has done nothing wrong

😂

[Lago]

It’s hardly a surprise. He isn’t even highly qualified and the experience he’s gained has been from dud managers.
No tactical awareness at all, throwing on all those defencive players in the hope of holding out for a win, lucky to get a draw at the end.

[NC1875]

He’s not out his depth

He just needs to be brave and drop the boy miller at right back and cancel the loan deal for the goalie as he’s the worst goalie I think I’ve ever seen.

Flaps At everything and his mistake cost the goal by giving away a corner.

Utterly pathetic

He is out his depth.

[supermcginn]

Hoofball and awful results , I'd replace him ASAP.

[Unseen work]

At least with Monty he had a style of play and patterns you could see at times

His main issue was defensively

There was always the wonder of if he got the summer to work on it and recruit centre halves

Gray had a whole pre season and signed about 12 players

[mcfly]

He is out his depth.

Did he miss the sitters that triantis and gayle missed?

He has to find a goalie and a right back.

The experienced manager you want in will be McKay. You want that..

[B.H.F.C]

Another terrible substitution. He ****s the bed at that point in the game.

[we are hibs]

The standard of our play was dreadful for large parts today. Aimless long punts forward.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[sleeping giant]

Desperately need an experienced manager

[Smartie]

I’m absolutely gutted we didn’t hang on there as I was looking forward to doling out a good few old-fashioned post derby GIRFUYs.

Only this time they’d have been aimed mainly at our own fans.

More than anything David Gray needs a David Gray - someone who can drive a team on and stretch the neck muscles further when it’s needed most.

Well, he needs a ******* goalie who can do the basics too but that really goes without saying.

I remain convinced that Gray is not the problem.

[Eaststand]

He’s not out his depth

He just needs to be brave and drop the boy miller at right back and cancel the loan deal for the goalie as he’s the worst goalie I think I’ve ever seen.

Flaps At everything and his mistake cost the goal by giving away a corner.

Utterly pathetic

This is it for me too.

I've really no idea what part David Gray played in signing Bursic but dropping Miller and Bursic would improve our team a lot.

GGTTH

[Boyle89]

That football was atrocious. The few times we got the ball down and played it we created half chances. His subs are terrible and we can't see out a game. There are absolutely no positive signs to keeping him in the job. Yes the squad isn't great but any decent manager would have us a lot further away from the bottom.

[NC1875]

Did he miss the sitters that triantis and gayle missed?

He has to find a goalie and a right back.

The experienced manager you want in will be McKay. You want that..

He keeps playing the gk and the right back.

9 games in and I still don’t know what our game plan is

His subs almost always make us worse

Do you want me to keep going ?

[hibee_girl]

I’m absolutely gutted we didn’t hang on there as I was looking forward to doling out a good few old-fashioned post derby GIRFUYs.

Only this time they’d have been aimed mainly at our own fans.

More than anything David Gray needs a David Gray - someone who can drive a team on and stretch the neck muscles further when it’s needed most.

Well, he needs a ******* goalie who can do the basics too but that really goes without saying.

I remain convinced that Gray is not the problem.

That’s what we were saying at the game today, there are no leaders in the team, no one who will take the game by the scruff of the neck and get us going.

We need a David Gray/Darren McGregor type.

[Onion]

Another terrible substitution. He ****s the bed at that point in the game.

Someone at Hibs needs to seriously ask SDG what he's thinking when he makes these final stage subs. And why he thinks the outcome will be any different from the previous 4 or 5 outcomes over the last few weeks.

Someone please get down to ER and save this Hibs Legend from himself, and from the clutches of the Gordon/Kensall horror show.

[Aldo]

Did he miss the sitters that triantis and gayle missed?

He has to find a goalie and a right back.

The experienced manager you want in will be McKay. You want that..

So do you think Gray is good enough to be Head Coach/Manager.

His inexperience and inability to learn from his own mistakes (subs) and the horrendous football.

This has the feeling of Duff Jimmy with not many wins over a period of time.

We don’t win midweek and Gray and the board can all go.

We are relegation candidates and as it stands it’s on Gray

[Willis1875]

Got the starting 11 right but game management from him yet again has been his downfall.
It just isn’t going to work out,shades of Nick Montgomery in that everytime he makes an in game decision with subs we seem to concede