Gray is out of his depth’

[Unseen work]

Almost finding myself getting worked up again that there seems to be a real delight in us nicking a point the other night

We must be one of the only teams to equalise in the 92nd minute and score again a couple of minutes later but it’s again to equalise

Not enough is being said about conceding another goal so late in the game, goalkeeper error aside it was far too easy for Aberdeen to get into that area and get a cross in

Our 7th must win game in a row, if we do it will probably buy Gray another month at least

[Skol]

Almost finding myself getting worked up again that there seems to be a real delight in us nicking a point the other night

We must be one of the only teams to equalise in the 92nd minute and score again a couple of minutes later but it’s again to equalise

Not enough is being said about conceding another goal so late in the game, goalkeeper error aside it was far too easy for Aberdeen to get into that area and get a cross in

Our 7th must win game in a row, if we do it will probably buy Gray another month at least


For me there was something about our performance that was better and I enjoyed a game more than I have for a long time. Was it perfect? No it wasn’t. But hibs played well, created chances and even scored some of them.

If we play like that we will pick up points and be out of trouble. Let’s hope they build on that tomorrow.

[GreenCastle]

Almost finding myself getting worked up again that there seems to be a real delight in us nicking a point the other night

We must be one of the only teams to equalise in the 92nd minute and score again a couple of minutes later but it’s again to equalise

Not enough is being said about conceding another goal so late in the game, goalkeeper error aside it was far too easy for Aberdeen to get into that area and get a cross in

Our 7th must win game in a row, if we do it will probably buy Gray another month at least

Tomorrow is massive. Feels like another draw..

But really we need to get a win. Looking at fixtures we need points and especially with Ross County playing Celtic, Rangers then Hibs at Easter Road next. We could over take them by the time we have played them.

[B.H.F.C]

Almost finding myself getting worked up again that there seems to be a real delight in us nicking a point the other night

We must be one of the only teams to equalise in the 92nd minute and score again a couple of minutes later but it’s again to equalise

Not enough is being said about conceding another goal so late in the game, goalkeeper error aside it was far too easy for Aberdeen to get into that area and get a cross in

Our 7th must win game in a row, if we do it will probably buy Gray another month at least

It’s been brutal this season and it was only a point. But for once, they showed a bit character, that has to be a good thing. They need to take the positive and try and use it to get a win tomorrow. The need for a win supersedes the fear of Gray getting longer in the job, even if I don’t think he should still be in the job. The best scenario is still that we manage to win a decent number of wins without having to make a change, as unlikely as I think it is.

[theonlywayisup]

Well done SDG. It's bonkers that people are calling him "out of his depth", whilst the players individual errors have contributed to dropping 16 points from winning position. Yes, he's made poor decisions, but all managers do.

Interesting that the person who many have hoped to be his successor manages a team that are ONE point above us.

Embarrassing thread and should be closed.

[bingo70]

Well done SDG. It's bonkers that people are calling him "out of his depth", whilst the players individual errors have contributed to dropping 16 points from winning position. Yes, he's made poor decisions, but all managers do.

Interesting that the person who many have hoped to be his successor manages a team that are ONE point above us.

Embarrassing thread and should be closed.

You’ve had to wait a while to post this though eh? 😂

I’m delighted for him and the team tonight, it’s too early for I told you so’s though, I’m sure he would agree with that too.

[H18 SFR]

Well done SDG. It's bonkers that people are calling him "out of his depth", whilst the players individual errors have contributed to dropping 16 points from winning position. Yes, he's made poor decisions, but all managers do.

Interesting that the person who many have hoped to be his successor manages a team that are ONE point above us.

Embarrassing thread and should be closed.

What’s embarassing about debating a manager with 2 wins out of 15 on a fans forum message board? If you can’t cope with online dialogue and discussion maybe .net isn’t for you?

[Saint Hibee]

Well done SDG. It's bonkers that people are calling him "out of his depth", whilst the players individual errors have contributed to dropping 16 points from winning position. Yes, he's made poor decisions, but all managers do.

Interesting that the person who many have hoped to be his successor manages a team that are ONE point above us.

Embarrassing thread and should be closed.

Sorry, but no. We’re second from bottom. This “individual errors” chat is BS; he needs to be picking players who won’t make those errors and coaching them not to! Hopefully today marks a turning point, but this thread and people’s frustration with his bizarre tactics and substitutions in previous matches are 100% legitimate.

[B.H.F.C]

Well done SDG. It's bonkers that people are calling him "out of his depth", whilst the players individual errors have contributed to dropping 16 points from winning position. Yes, he's made poor decisions, but all managers do.

Interesting that the person who many have hoped to be his successor manages a team that are ONE point above us.

Embarrassing thread and should be closed.

He has looked out of his depth though.

Today was superb and to be enjoyed tonight. We aren’t going to get anything next week. Ross County another must win game.

Still a possibility that we are bottom of the league by the end of the weekend and more results like today needed before this thread looks silly IMO.

[H18 SFR]

Sorry, but no. We’re second from bottom. This “individual errors” chat is BS; he needs to be picking players who won’t make those errors and coaching them not to! Hopefully today marks a turning point, but this thread and people’s frustration with his bizarre tactics and substitutions in previous matches are 100% legitimate.

Until today, David Gray’s performance and decision making as a manager has been utterly unacceptable. Let’s hope that today leads to something positive but to suggest that we should all pretend everything is fine being second bottom is bonkers.

Like you, hoping this is a turning point.

[Jim44]

Great result but it’s not quite time to dismiss the jury. We need a few more results and performances like today. I’m not looking for anything beyond guaranteed league safety and a sound basis for improvement next season.

[matty_f]

We’re a way away from the GIRFUY posts. We’ve done well in two games but we’re second bottom of the league having played a game more than the bottom side.

It’s an unacceptable position to be in and only a sustained run of performances and results are going to change the perception.

I desperately hope he does it, and at the end of the season we’re looking back and wondering what we were worried about.

[GreenCastle]

Was today David Grays best result as manager ?

[Scottie]

We’re a way away from the GIRFUY posts. We’ve done well in two games but we’re second bottom of the league having played a game more than the bottom side.

It’s an unacceptable position to be in and only a sustained run of performances and results are going to change the perception.

I desperately hope he does it, and at the end of the season we’re looking back and wondering what we were worried about.
Well said Matty. Can still go either way but hopefully we’ve hit rock bottom & are on the way up after the last two performances.

[GreenCastle]

We’re a way away from the GIRFUY posts. We’ve done well in two games but we’re second bottom of the league having played a game more than the bottom side.

It’s an unacceptable position to be in and only a sustained run of performances and results are going to change the perception.

I desperately hope he does it, and at the end of the season we’re looking back and wondering what we were worried about.

Exactly this.

[snedzuk]

What did he say about David Gray?

Drawing comparisons with himself at Hearts. Inexperienced, weight of expectations, no time for errors etc. - I thought it pretty insightful and thoughtful. He speaks very well. This was on a sportsound BTW but I cant recall which.

[JohnM1875]

Was today David Grays best result as manager ?

Comfortably.

I'm honestly delighted for him and the team. I've been really critical of him so far, warranted in my opinion, but I want nothing more than him to turn it around and be a success with us.

Sickner that it's Parkhead next. But hope we can use this result to really kick on.

[Murphys Touch]

Comfortably.

I'm honestly delighted for him and the team. I've been really critical of him so far, warranted in my opinion, but I want nothing more than him to turn it around and be a success with us.

Sickner that it's Parkhead next. But hope we can use this result to really kick on.

Think we all are - if we want anyone to succeed it’s our cup final winning captain. I honestly hope he has a beer tonight, wee cuddle with the Mrs and a sleep for the first time in weeks

But it is Celtic next week and we’ve known that for a long long time so the 2 wins in 15 is unacceptable. Getting a reasonable tune out of the players today shows what is capable of the team - Gray just hadn’t found it. Therefore fair to say “out of his depth”…we should be comfortable mid table as a bare minimum

Hate to be the board at the best of times but they must be in a right pickle just now - he was 100% out if we were defeated today

[McD]

Drawing comparisons with himself at Hearts. Inexperienced, weight of expectations, no time for errors etc. - I thought it pretty insightful and thoughtful. He speaks very well. This was on a sportsound BTW but I cant recall which.


Thanks :aok:

[McD]

Well done SDG. It's bonkers that people are calling him "out of his depth", whilst the players individual errors have contributed to dropping 16 points from winning position. Yes, he's made poor decisions, but all managers do.

Interesting that the person who many have hoped to be his successor manages a team that are ONE point above us.

Embarrassing thread and should be closed.



One win (and a draw) doesn’t just wipe away months of unacceptable performances, coaching and tactical decisions. 2 wins as we step into December is atrocious. But, one win is an improvement. Hopefully we (thats all of us, including the club and David Gray) are starting an upward trajectory

[andrew70]

Was today David Grays best result as manager ?

Second best for me. Aberdeen 0 Hibernian 2 just beats it for me.

[Keepthefaith]

as much as I have supported Gray and am generally a positive poster (sometimes overly so!) I do agree that some of his decision making earlier in the season likely contributed to us conceding late goals - noticeably by making overly defensive subs making us deeper and inviting pressure on ourselves. this I think he is learning from however.

I also think he has been hampered significantly by Bowies injury and Elie / Boyle being below par (and of course the silly individual errors and VAR but we'll focus on what he had control of)

I'd love to see him make it - I think he has the right personality to succeed but as others have said, the positive performances and results this week need to be continued to rebuild trust in him and the team. trust in the club will take longer, with the January window pretty key in that regard

[007]

Sorry, but no. We’re second from bottom. This “individual errors” chat is BS; he needs to be picking players who won’t make those errors and coaching them not to! Hopefully today marks a turning point, but this thread and people’s frustration with his bizarre tactics and substitutions in previous matches are 100% legitimate.

How do you coach a player not to make an individual error?

[Prof. Shaggy]

....he needs to be picking players who won’t make those errors....

Do you have anyone in mind?

[Bristolhibby]

How do you coach a player not to make an individual error?

Shout at him. “Don’t be stupid ya dafty”.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

How do you coach a player not to make an individual error?

I don't know, how do you coach a player not to make an individual error? 🤔☺️

[Since90+2]

I don't know, how do you coach a player not to make an individual error? 🤔☺️

Is that not what coaching effectively is? Coaching them to make better decisions and to to cut out errors and flaws in their game is likely a key component of training IMO.

[bingo70]

Is that not what coaching effectively is? Coaching them to make better decisions and to to cut out errors and flaws in their game is likely a key component of training IMO.

Yes, it’s also working out what makes certain players tick. Some will be motivated by the carrot and some by the threat of the stick.

I also think if we played in such a way we were creating lots of chances and scoring more goals we would be less susceptible to feeling the impacts of individual errors. I guess every team, even Celtic could point towards individual errors every week, the better teams are impacted by them less though, the poorer teams complain about bad luck.

Yesterday was very much a step in the right direction though, if there had been an individual error it wouldn’t have mattered as much as we’d given ourselves a cushion.

[ian cruise]

How do you coach a player not to make an individual error?

While you can't remove individual errors, you can instill confidence in players which should reduce those errors, add playing in a manner/utilising tactics where errors are easily recovered also helps.

Easier to say than do, but when you have the sheer number of individual errors we have had then what's happening (or not happening) at training likely contributes.

That said, David Gray and his coaching team are on a learning curve themselves, if the poor start was a necessary evil for them to learn what does and doesn't work so they can say they have sufficient time to try different formations, styles and players and we kick on from here and were to finish top six I reckon most Hibs fans would be very happy and the poor start would be widely accepted as painful but forgiven.

[Since452]

Absolutely delighted for Gray yesterday. We have some difficult fixtures coming up though so hopefully the performance levels remain. Absolutely vital we beat Ross County at home after Celtic.

[Since90+2]

Bit of a sickener our next game is at Celtic Park where we could get a bit of a hammering instead of building momentum further. Ross County game is massive, win that and we can hopefully start to move up a few places.

[IanM]

Bit of a sickener our next game is at Celtic Park where we could get a bit of a hammering instead of building momentum further. Ross County game is massive, win that and we can hopefully start to move up a few places.

They’ve absolutely hammered county yesterday.. Celtic have scored 2+ goals in their last 22 league games.. county defence certainly didn’t make it hard for them

We just got keep it tight and take any chances we get - just like every trip there

Best time to play them with our tails up, but the following 3 games is what will define us.

[JimBHibees]

I don't know, how do you coach a player not to make an individual error? 🤔☺️

Get them organised and repetition to make errors less likely to happen eg everyone knowing their job at a long throw and continually practicing it. Suppose trying to build individual and collective confidence to respond positively when someone does make one rather than affecting the next play. Having clear communication and leadership skills on the pitch.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Great result yesterday and from the highlights it looks like a very decent performance as well.

Hard run coming up, so we’re nowhere near out of the woods yet, but it’s just a relief to finally be off he bottom of the table.

[H18 SFR]

as much as I have supported Gray and am generally a positive poster (sometimes overly so!) I do agree that some of his decision making earlier in the season likely contributed to us conceding late goals - noticeably by making overly defensive subs making us deeper and inviting pressure on ourselves. this I think he is learning from however.

I also think he has been hampered significantly by Bowies injury and Elie / Boyle being below par (and of course the silly individual errors and VAR but we'll focus on what he had control of)

I'd love to see him make it - I think he has the right personality to succeed but as others have said, the positive performances and results this week need to be continued to rebuild trust in him and the team. trust in the club will take longer, with the January window pretty key in that regard

One of my mates in our Hibs what’s app chat just made a good point, if the chat about the BK group on the private board is correct about them having more football matter control and they decided to sack Gray today he’d have no one to blame but himself given the glaring howlers he’s made.

[Northernhibee]

Let’s see where this takes us. He wouldn’t be the first young manager to have a terrible start and turn it around - Kettlewell is still in a job - and I fear changing again may lead to a Butcher like situation where we forgo a likely bottom six but safe finish for a collapse.

[Ozyhibby]

He’s earned a reprieve for now. Can’t sack him after a 3-0 win and he’ll likely survive all but an embarrassing defeat v Celtic.
Massive questions remain but for now he is safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

How do you coach a player not to make an individual error?

I think it's a bit of a red herring to put bad results down to individual errors - the vast majority of goals conceded by teams up and down the country are as a result of individual errors.

For me, it's too much of a get out of jail free card to just dismiss the poor season as being out of Gray's control because of individual errors.

Ultimately, Gray and his coaching staff's roles are to coach the team to minimise the errors (we'll never eradicate them) and be in a position to mitigate them when they happen.

Losing a game after going down to ten men isn't an individual error, there's a collective responsibility on the ten remaining players to work harder to not lose the game - it can't be the case that we just accept that a red card automatically results in dropped points and it's fine because it's all on the boy that got sent off.

We've been punished for mistakes largely because we haven't taken advantage of the opponents' mistakes, or capitalised on being on top in games by scoring (or scoring more than once), so when we do make the mistakes they've been catastrophic.

We made mistakes on Saturday and against Aberdeen on Tuesday, but they weren't significant and - crucially - we scored enough for them to not be disastrous.

I don't think we should be giving managers free passes though, if you're making individual errors on the scale we have this season, then you need to be looking at the whole coaching team and asking how effective their work has been with the players, and if there are no issues there, then the recruitment guys are on the hook for not providing adequate players for the coaches to coach.

[CapitalGreen]

Let’s see where this takes us. He wouldn’t be the first young manager to have a terrible start and turn it around - Kettlewell is still in a job - and I fear changing again may lead to a Butcher like situation where we forgo a likely bottom six but safe finish for a collapse.

We are already in a Butcher like situation, the change was sacking Monty and replacing him with Gray.

[SHODAN]

I think we'll have a new manager come January regardless of how this month goes.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think it's a bit of a red herring to put bad results down to individual errors - the vast majority of goals conceded by teams up and down the country are as a result of individual errors.

For me, it's too much of a get out of jail free card to just dismiss the poor season as being out of Gray's control because of individual errors.

Ultimately, Gray and his coaching staff's roles are to coach the team to minimise the errors (we'll never eradicate them) and be in a position to mitigate them when they happen.

Losing a game after going down to ten men isn't an individual error, there's a collective responsibility on the ten remaining players to work harder to not lose the game - it can't be the case that we just accept that a red card automatically results in dropped points and it's fine because it's all on the boy that got sent off.

We've been punished for mistakes largely because we haven't taken advantage of the opponents' mistakes, or capitalised on being on top in games by scoring (or scoring more than once), so when we do make the mistakes they've been catastrophic.

We made mistakes on Saturday and against Aberdeen on Tuesday, but they weren't significant and - crucially - we scored enough for them to not be disastrous.

I don't think we should be giving managers free passes though, if you're making individual errors on the scale we have this season, then you need to be looking at the whole coaching team and asking how effective their work has been with the players, and if there are no issues there, then the recruitment guys are on the hook for not providing adequate players for the coaches to coach.

This season no matter when the team have been reduced to ten men they have generally lost though. I think it’s something like fifteen defeats and only one win which was Sevco who won at Ibrox against St Johnstone when reduced to ten men ...

Probably shows the advantage it gives to the other team when a player makes an individual mistake which is out of the managers control in like what Obita , Newell and Triantis did .. find it worse when a experienced player does it in all .

Some fans blame the manager when a players sent off having already been booked though i don’t think its feasible for a manager to change every player that gets booked especially if they are the team’s better players . I suppose the manager puts his trust in them to make the right decisions or choices too.

[cubehindthegoal]

as much as I have supported Gray and am generally a positive poster (sometimes overly so!) I do agree that some of his decision making earlier in the season likely contributed to us conceding late goals - noticeably by making overly defensive subs making us deeper and inviting pressure on ourselves. this I think he is learning from however.

I also think he has been hampered significantly by Bowies injury and Elie / Boyle being below par (and of course the silly individual errors and VAR but we'll focus on what he had control of)

I'd love to see him make it - I think he has the right personality to succeed but as others have said, the positive performances and results this week need to be continued to rebuild trust in him and the team. trust in the club will take longer, with the January window pretty key in that regard

Many good points there, and I had begun to think he hasn’t got a few things right. But the decisions and selection and substitutions last couple matches have shown he might get that too, and I am too hasty to judge. Next match might not tell us much, but let’s see. Would be great if the players can up their confidence and find a way to get a result to pay him back, in the way he has supported them.

[matty_f]

This season no matter when the team have been reduced to ten men they have generally lost though. I think it’s something like fifteen defeats and only one win which was Sevco who won at Ibrox against St Johnstone when reduced to ten men ...

Probably shows the advantage it gives to the other team when a player makes an individual mistake which is out of the managers control in like what Obita , Newell and Triantis did .. find it worse when a experienced player does it in all .

Some fans blame the manager when a players sent off having already been booked though i don’t think its feasible for a manager to change every player that gets booked especially if they are the team’s better players . I suppose the manager puts his trust in them to make the right decisions or choices too.
I agree on the substituting a player on a booking point - players have to do better there, the manager can’t be subbing off every player on a yellow card.

[RIP]

I agree on the substituting a player on a booking point - players have to do better there, the manager can’t be subbing off every player on a yellow card.

The problem is Matty that some teams are losing, they deliberately target opposition players on a yellow with a view to getting them sent off.

Yet another unsavoury aspect of the cheating that permeates the modern game.

[easty]

This season no matter when the team have been reduced to ten men they have generally lost though. I think it’s something like fifteen defeats and only one win which was Sevco who won at Ibrox against St Johnstone when reduced to ten men ...

Probably shows the advantage it gives to the other team when a player makes an individual mistake which is out of the managers control in like what Obita , Newell and Triantis did .. find it worse when a experienced player does it in all .

Some fans blame the manager when a players sent off having already been booked though i don’t think its feasible for a manager to change every player that gets booked especially if they are the team’s better players . I suppose the manager puts his trust in them to make the right decisions or choices too.

Sometimes it is the managers fault for not subbing the player off. It’s part of management, and it all depends on the circumstances. If you have a centre mid whose job it is to protect the defence and they’re on a booking then it can either make them reign it in, or leave them walking a tight rope. Same goes with a full back, if they’re up against a team who play a lot down the wings with tricky pacy wingers.

It’s not an expectation that you sub off anyone who’s been booked. It’s a case of managing your team in the game in front of you.

[Paulie Walnuts]

This season no matter when the team have been reduced to ten men they have generally lost though. I think it’s something like fifteen defeats and only one win which was Sevco who won at Ibrox against St Johnstone when reduced to ten men ...

Without going through all the games, we’ve drawn a game with a man sent off, Killie came back against St Mirren with a man sent off and Motherwell have won a game with a man sent off.

I’m sure teams probably are more likely to lose when they get a man sent off but your figures are definitely off.

[Jock O]

I agree on the substituting a player on a booking point - players have to do better there, the manager can’t be subbing off every player on a yellow card.

I thought Miller did really well against Aberdeen considering the injustice of his booking, he really showed a controlled performance for rest of game, actually thought he was a bit unlucky to be dropped, but suspect Cadden is seen as better crosser of ball.

[we are hibs]

The problem is Matty that some teams are losing, they deliberately target opposition players on a yellow with a view to getting them sent off.

Yet another unsavoury aspect of the cheating that permeates the modern game.Not sure how this is modern. It's been happening for years. Brown done a Jambo a beauty while on a booking when we beat them 2-0 nearly 20 years ago. Can't remember his name, big Lithuanian forward (hardly narrowing it down when it comes to hearts I know)

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[HibbyAndy]

Not sure how this is modern. It's been happening for years. Brown done a Jambo a beauty while on a booking when we beat them 2-0 nearly 20 years ago. Can't remember his name, big Lithuanian forward (hardly narrowing it down when it comes to hearts I know)

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Edgaras Jankauskas

[matty_f]

The problem is Matty that some teams are losing, they deliberately target opposition players on a yellow with a view to getting them sent off.

Yet another unsavoury aspect of the cheating that permeates the modern game.
Noticed how bad Motherwell were on Saturday for throwing themselves to the ground with fictional face knocks. It definitely looked like a deliberate tactic to try and draw a red card.

[Donegal Hibby]

Without going through all the games, we’ve drawn a game with a man sent off, Killie came back against St Mirren with a man sent off and Motherwell have won a game with a man sent off.

I’m sure teams probably are more likely to lose when they get a man sent off but your figures are definitely off.

I missed the Motherwell one though think the figures are roughly accurate in when a team has went down to ten men they have generally lost .

I think it’s 15 times a team with ten men have lost this season in the Scottish premier league and with the Motherwell one I think it now stands at two they have won .( Motherwell & sevco).

I didn’t do the draws like ours against Killie or Dundee Utd though I’d guess they are pretty low too ,probably around about 5 or 6 possibly.. the defeats compared to the wins shows quite a difference and what an advantage it must be having a extra man .

[theonlywayisup]

Noticed how bad Motherwell were on Saturday for throwing themselves to the ground with fictional face knocks. It definitely looked like a deliberate tactic to try and draw a red card.

Yes, I noticed that as well. Blatant cheating!

Contrast that with the Scotland Finland game during which the women just got on with it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Not sure how this is modern. It's been happening for years. Brown done a Jambo a beauty while on a booking when we beat them 2-0 nearly 20 years ago. Can't remember his name, big Lithuanian forward (hardly narrowing it down when it comes to hearts I know)

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Also not sure how it’s cheating.

Tactics are part of the game. Logic dictates if you get someone running at a full back more often, then the full back will be more likely to get booked. If that full back is already on a booking then of course you’re going to tactically focus on them to try and get them sent off and give yourself a better chance of winning the game.

Its not cheating anymore than aiming high balls to a target man up against a short full back is cheating, or a tennis player aiming shots at their opponents back hand cause it’s a weakness.

[Donegal Hibby]

Sometimes it is the managers fault for not subbing the player off. It’s part of management, and it all depends on the circumstances. If you have a centre mid whose job it is to protect the defence and they’re on a booking then it can either make them reign it in, or leave them walking a tight rope. Same goes with a full back, if they’re up against a team who play a lot down the wings with tricky pacy wingers.

It’s not an expectation that you sub off anyone who’s been booked. It’s a case of managing your team in the game in front of you.

I agree to an extent with this . In a player on a yellow card who maybe puts in a dodgy tackle but gets away with it should be substituted before he walks on the next one .

Though generally a team wants to keep their better players on an a manager is trusting them to use the head if they have already been booked, Newell against Dundee Utd being a prime example in he doesn’t need to lunge in at all.

On the Motherwell game I thought their players were going down to easy , fainting injuries and on another day with a card happy ref we would have had more players booked . Their player Balmer was also guilty of persistent fouling though I felt the ref was generally good with keeping his cards in his pocket…

I think this season referees have been a bit too card happy and I would guess bookings / red cards are up considerably from least year . It would be interesting if anyone has any stats on this .

[Donegal Hibby]

Also not sure how it’s cheating.

Tactics are part of the game. Logic dictates if you get someone running at a full back more often, then the full back will be more likely to get booked. If that full back is already on a booking then of course you’re going to tactically focus on them to try and get them sent off and give yourself a better chance of winning the game.

Its not cheating anymore than aiming high balls to a target man up against a short full back is cheating, or a tennis player aiming shots at their opponents back hand cause it’s a weakness.

Was Duk’s attempt to win a penalty yesterday tactical or cheating?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Was Duk’s attempt to win a penalty yesterday tactical or cheating?

I’ve no idea, I didn’t watch the Aberdeen game.

The post in question though wasn’t discussing diving (which I’m presuming is the issue with Duk). It was simply suggesting that targeting players on a yellow is cheating. It’s not. It’s nothing more than a tactic to win a game.

[Donegal Hibby]

I’ve no idea, I didn’t watch the Aberdeen game.

The post in question though wasn’t discussing diving (which I’m presuming is the issue with Duk). It was simply suggesting that targeting players on a yellow is cheating. It’s not. It’s nothing more than a tactic to win a game.

Yeah he did dive and was rightly booked for it .. if a player goes down rolling about trying to get a player sent off when there’s minimal contact I look on it as exactly the same as what duk tried .. it’s cheating pure and simple.

[Jones28]

I’ve no idea, I didn’t watch the Aberdeen game.

The post in question though wasn’t discussing diving (which I’m presuming is the issue with Duk). It was simply suggesting that targeting players on a yellow is cheating. It’s not. It’s nothing more than a tactic to win a game.

Thats how I see it, if an opponent is on a booking you target them in the hope they get another. If a full back is on a booking you want your wingers to run at them and get fouled so the opposition go down to ten men.

RE diving, it is cheating and people like Duk won't get away with it now with VAR.

[theonlywayisup]

Thats how I see it, if an opponent is on a booking you target them in the hope they get another. If a full back is on a booking you want your wingers to run at them and get fouled so the opposition go down to ten men.

RE diving, it is cheating and people like Duk won't get away with it now with VAR.

Vargas did against us

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yeah he did dive and was rightly booked for it .. if a player goes down rolling about trying to get a player sent off when there’s minimal contact I look on it as exactly the same as what duk tried .. it’s cheating pure and simple.

Again though, that’s not what the original post was talking about, or my response to it.

The original post suggested that targeting a player on a booking in the hope of them getting sent off is cheating. It’s not. It would become cheating if you start cheating of course, but simply targeting them by trying to focus the play in their direction is absolutely not cheating.

[Donegal Hibby]

Again though, that’s not what the original post was talking about, or my response to it.

The original post suggested that targeting a player on a booking in the hope of them getting sent off is cheating. It’s not. It would become cheating if you start cheating of course, but simply targeting them by trying to focus the play in their direction is absolutely not cheating.

Yeah that’s fair enough though there’s to much of the other stuff in the game nowadays , like I thought some of the Motherwell players were trying to get our players booked and in fairness thought Iredale’s reaction to the Aberdeen player was a bit embarrassing in all . Stuff like that doesn’t make it any easier for the referees in fairness.

[McD]

Also not sure how it’s cheating.

Tactics are part of the game. Logic dictates if you get someone running at a full back more often, then the full back will be more likely to get booked. If that full back is already on a booking then of course you’re going to tactically focus on them to try and get them sent off and give yourself a better chance of winning the game.

Its not cheating anymore than aiming high balls to a target man up against a short full back is cheating, or a tennis player aiming shots at their opponents back hand cause it’s a weakness.



Totally agree, in fact I’d say it’s poor tactics to not do it, situation dependant. A winger who’s been booked for a clumsy/late tackle isn’t usually especially vulnerable, but a defender or centre mid who’s on a booking is very vulnerable to players running at them with the ball and forcing them to choose risking a mistimed tackle and second booking, or not defending as tightly as they normally would.


In regards to the other posts, I’m not encouraging diving or feigning injury, simply forcing a player to make choices whilst under the threat of a second yellow

[Jones28]

Vargas did against us

I don't remember that especially, when was that?

[Tyler Durden]

I don't remember that especially, when was that?

The 1-1 derby earlier this year at Tynie. Will Fish brushed against him and he dives. The VAR asked Clancy to review, which he did and despite it being a clear dive he stuck with his decision to award a penalty.

We'll probably get that clown reffing the game on Boxing Day.

When I saw Duk diving yesterday, my first thought was.... if that's against Hibs then Clancy would give the penalty. It wasn't actually that different to his dive against us back in 2022, which was given after a VAR check.

[JimBHibees]

The 1-1 derby earlier this year at Tynie. Will Fish brushed against him and he dives. The VAR asked Clancy to review, which he did and despite it being a clear dive he stuck with his decision to award a penalty.

We'll probably get that clown reffing the game on Boxing Day.

When I saw Duk diving yesterday, my first thought was.... if that's against Hibs then Clancy would give the penalty. It wasn't actually that different to his dive against us back in 2022, which was given after a VAR check.

Yes very similar to the Duk dive at Pittodrie

[snedzuk]

Thats how I see it, if an opponent is on a booking you target them in the hope they get another. If a full back is on a booking you want your wingers to run at them and get fouled so the opposition go down to ten men.

RE diving, it is cheating and people like Duk won't get away with it now with VAR.

He got away with it up there in the 4 1 game in 2022 when he threw himself to the ground while a yard away from Marshall. Penalty, sheep.

[LaMotta]

The 1-1 derby earlier this year at Tynie. Will Fish brushed against him and he dives. The VAR asked Clancy to review, which he did and despite it being a clear dive he stuck with his decision to award a penalty.

We'll probably get that clown reffing the game on Boxing Day.

When I saw Duk diving yesterday, my first thought was.... if that's against Hibs then Clancy would give the penalty. It wasn't actually that different to his dive against us back in 2022, which was given after a VAR check.

Honestly the angriest I've ever been about a decision against Hibs. VAR had been shafting us for months and the one time it actually did its job to intervene to correct a wrong - Clancy does something that had only been done once before in Scotland and go against the VAR recommendation. Unbelievable. Ultimately (amongst other things) cost Montgomery his job.

[wookie70]

The 1-1 derby earlier this year at Tynie. Will Fish brushed against him and he dives. The VAR asked Clancy to review, which he did and despite it being a clear dive he stuck with his decision to award a penalty.

We'll probably get that clown reffing the game on Boxing Day.

When I saw Duk diving yesterday, my first thought was.... if that's against Hibs then Clancy would give the penalty. It wasn't actually that different to his dive against us back in 2022, which was given after a VAR check.

At least he made contact with Gordon yesterday as he went down. He was well on his way down a yard before he reached Marshall. Needless to say he gets booked against Hearts and we concede a penalty. We are treated differently by referees, no idea why, and it isn't just an isolated incident

[HibbyAndy]

Yes very similar to the Duk dive at Pittodrie


The 1-1 derby earlier this year at Tynie. Will Fish brushed against him and he dives. The VAR asked Clancy to review, which he did and despite it being a clear dive he stuck with his decision to award a penalty.

We'll probably get that clown reffing the game on Boxing Day.

When I saw Duk diving yesterday, my first thought was.... if that's against Hibs then Clancy would give the penalty. It wasn't actually that different to his dive against us back in 2022, which was given after a VAR check.


Honestly the angriest I've ever been about a decision against Hibs. VAR had been shafting us for months and the one time it actually did its job to intervene to correct a wrong - Clancy does something that had only been done once before in Scotland and go against the VAR recommendation. Unbelievable. Ultimately (amongst other things) cost Montgomery his job.



Wasn't Collum the ref ? Cannae remember they are all inept

Agreed tho , You get called over to the monitor and refs NEVER disagree with it ( Refs need to grow some balls !! and stick to there decision )....Up until that game every referee has gone with VAR then you get that git sticking with his original decision

Cheating **** !!!

[Donegal Hibby]

Gave the penalty near halftime too I think , remember saying how it would have effected both teams .

[flash]

Nice draw in the Cup. SDG heading for a unique double.

[JimBHibees]

Wasn't Collum the ref ? Cannae remember they are all inept

Agreed tho , You get called over to the monitor and refs NEVER disagree with it ( Refs need to grow some balls !! and stick to there decision )....Up until that game every referee has gone with VAR then you get that git sticking with his original decision

Cheating **** !!!

The Vargas dive was Clancy. The Duk dive was David Munro who has given loads of decisions against us and none for us.

[theonlywayisup]

SDG should be complimented for the way his team tried to get on the front foot against a team clearly miles better.

Best Hibs display at Celtic Park for a long time.

[1875Sean]

SDG should be complimented for the way his team tried to get on the front foot against a team clearly miles better.

Best Hibs display at Celtic Park for a long time.

Still the worst start from a hibs team in my lifetime, played well or not we need points

Has to beat Ross County next week

[Murphys Touch]

2 wins in 16

[BoomtownHibees]

SDG should be complimented for the way his team tried to get on the front foot against a team clearly miles better.

Best Hibs display at Celtic Park for a long time.

Should also be criticised for his use of subs

[chrisski33]

Can't judge SDG on today tbh. Lose against county and times up sadly.

[Lago]

Can't judge SDG on today tbh. Lose against county and times up sadly.
His time was up weeks ago

[bingo70]

Can't judge SDG on today tbh. Lose against county and times up sadly.

The problem is we never won the easier games which made the harder games like today, must wins.

I’ll be relieved when the inevitable happens.

[judas]

His time was up weeks ago

Oh no it wasn’t

[Donegal Hibby]

I don’t think we will lose to county and over some of the games , especially the last three I’ve seen enough in our performances that warrant sticking with David Gray .

[1875Sean]

I don’t think we will lose to county and over some of the games , especially the last three I’ve seen enough in our performances that warrant sticking with David Gray .

We may not lose but we need a win, a draw wouldn’t be good enough

[Donegal Hibby]

We may not lose but we need a win, a draw wouldn’t be good enough

I think if we play like we have in the last 3 games we will.

[theonlywayisup]

I don’t think we will lose to county and over some of the games , especially the last three I’ve seen enough in our performances that warrant sticking with David Gray .

Totally agree!

We can't keep sacking managers.

Think that was the best I've seen Hibs play at Celtic Park, where we've not won since 2012.

[Aldo]

Totally agree!

We can't keep sacking managers.

Think that was the best I've seen Hibs play at Celtic Park, where we've not won since 2012.

Of course we can and we should. 2 wins in 16.

The last few weeks have only papered over the cracks for me. Gray should have been relieved of his duties weeks ago.

[jamie_1875]

We are like always just putting off the inevitable. We have been here so so many times.

[7Hero]

It's simple let him keep going, there are tiny signs of recovery which should be enough to keep us up. During the rest of the season the most extensive search ever( not by the clowns in charge but the black knight) for a new manager. We do not want to sack gray and do a quick rushed appointment during the season. Find the right man take your time and at end of season tell gray thanks very much but we need a better man for the job..

[Onion]

Of course we can and we should. 2 wins in 16.

The last few weeks have only papered over the cracks for me. Gray should have been relieved of his duties weeks ago.

Hard to make a case for keeping SDG based on results. But the picture is muddied by some terrible players, decisions, luck and errors. It’s only time IMO.

[JohnM1875]

Of course we can and we should. 2 wins in 16.

The last few weeks have only papered over the cracks for me. Gray should have been relieved of his duties weeks ago.

I'll never ever understand the 'can't keep sacking managers' chat. It's ridiculous! Aye, we probably should have stuck with one, maybe two, of the last what, five managers?

Without a doubt what's going on above the manager has been a total shambles, but we can have a **** coach and **** set up above at the same time.

[bingo70]

It's simple let him keep going, there are tiny signs of recovery which should be enough to keep us up. During the rest of the season the most extensive search ever( not by the clowns in charge but the black knight) for a new manager. We do not want to sack gray and do a quick rushed appointment during the season. Find the right man take your time and at end of season tell gray thanks very much but we need a better man for the job..

That’s definitely not a simple solution.

We’re in real danger of relegation this season. I know some people are feeling more positive after recent performances but it’s only been one win in recent weeks against Motherwell. We still lost by 3 today and drawing at home to Aberdeen isn’t anything to celebrate really.

[AdidasHibernian]

Think is if we stick with him and survive the drop by the skin of our teeth the board will stick by him next season which is the real concern.

No danger the board pull the trigger end is season if we stay up but I can't see where we improve under him. The last few weeks we've played well but I feel like others have mentioned it papers over the cracks.

[Aldo]

Hard to make a case for keeping SDG based on results. But the picture is muddied by some terrible players, decisions, luck and errors. It’s only time IMO.

I agree with most of this Onion but DG has been the master of his own downfall at times (well most of the times) with poor player selection, tactics and the rest.

Blind faith and loyalty to the likes of Newell (sorry I don’t want to get into another JN debate) and today showed that Myko just isn’t the player we all through the was. We need a player of the quality of Maolida in January o put those type of chances away.


I'll never ever understand the 'can't keep sacking managers' chat. It's ridiculous! Aye, we probably should have stuck with one, maybe two, of the last what, five managers?

Without a doubt what's going on above the manager has been a total shambles, but we can have a **** coach and **** set up above at the same time.

Totally and I can only hope that IG has taken a step back and is letting the BKG take control of the footballing side of things. Possible signs of that happening with the appointment of Garvan Stewart.

[Murphys Touch]

I agree with most of this Onion but DG has been the master of his own downfall at times (well most of the times) with poor player selection, tactics and the rest.

Blind faith and loyalty to the likes of Newell (sorry I don’t want to get into another JN debate) and today showed that Myko just isn’t the player we all through the was. We need a player of the quality of Maolida in January o put those type of chances away.



Totally and I can only hope that IG has taken a step back and is letting the BKG take control of the footballing side of things. Possible signs of that happening with the appointment of Garvan Stewart.

Simon Murray would have buried those chances today

[Albahibs]

I don’t think we will lose to county and over some of the games , especially the last three I’ve seen enough in our performances that warrant sticking with David Gray .

I totally agree with you. I genuinely think that results will improve. The performances certainly have recently. I also think Sir David will have learned a heck of a lot after the pressure being at boiling point battling at the bottom of the league, and could go on to become a successful Hibernian manager.

[HoboHarry]

Simon Murray would have buried those chances today

Yes lets just ignore the fact that Murray was warming the bench (again) today.

[CapitalGreen]

Simon Murray would have buried those chances today

He isn’t burying them for Dundee. Murray has only scored 1 league goal more than Myko this season despite having played 5.5 hours more football.

Murray 1 goal every 327 minutes.
Myko 1 goal every 328 minutes.

[chrisski33]

I don’t think we will lose to county and over some of the games , especially the last three I’ve seen enough in our performances that warrant sticking with David Gray .

You would say that as you've stuck by him throughout the poor results.
Our performances haven't got us away from being bottom of the league except against a poor Motherwell team last week. That result papered over alot of cracks.
Very little to say we win against county.

[RIP]

Great coach + Great players = Major success

Great coach + Average players = Top 4

Average coach + Average players = Top 6 or close

Average coach + Poor players = Bottom 4

Poor coach + Average players = Bottom 4

Poor coach + Poor players = Relegation

If we can escape relegation and finish Bottom 4 will this mean that our players are still hampered by a poor coach or that Gray's progress as a coach is being hampered by poor players?

[easty]

We played pretty well (and lost) at Ibrox 11 games ago, on the back of a victory and a draw, and folk thought it was a sign things were improving.

We played well (and lost) today at Parkhead, on the back of a victory and a draw.

Hopefully we can build on it this time. I cannae say I’m massively confident about it.

[B.H.F.C]

We were playing well.

He brought Josh Campbell on. *****

[JohnM1875]

I don’t think we will lose to county and over some of the games , especially the last three I’ve seen enough in our performances that warrant sticking with David Gray .

To be fair, I didn't think we'd lose to Kelty, St Mirren at home, Motherwell at home or get thumped away to Dundee but we did.

[Donegal Hibby]

To be fair, I didn't think we'd lose to Kelty, St Mirren at home, Motherwell at home or get thumped away to Dundee but we did.

Neither did I tbh . I thought Gray made a mistake in the Kelly game and I called it at the time, St mirren we were extremely poor in which there was a couple of others like that , both Motherwell and Dundee we shot ourselves in the foot with individual errors…

Then there were games like away to Sevco which I thought was one of our best performances there in awhile, Killie and a few more we have been good in too … last 3 performances I think have been good so I go in believing we can beat Ross County 👍

[JohnM1875]

Neither did I tbh . I thought Gray made a mistake in the Kelly game and I called it at the time, St mirren we were extremely poor in which there was a couple of others like that , both Motherwell and Dundee we shot ourselves in the foot with individual errors…

Then there were games like away to Sevco which I thought was one of our best performances there in awhile, Killie and a few more we have been good in too … last 3 performances I think have been good so I go in believing we can beat Ross County 👍

Agree about the last three games and I honestly hope more than anything it's a turning point. There will never be a man I want to succeed more as Hibs manager (head coach).

[Donegal Hibby]

You would say that as you've stuck by him throughout the poor results.
Our performances haven't got us away from being bottom of the league except against a poor Motherwell team last week. That result papered over alot of cracks.
Very little to say we win against county.

How much of Motherwell being poor was down us being good though? .. they beat St Mirren today in paisley btw .

[Donegal Hibby]

Agree about the last three games and I honestly hope more than anything it's a turning point. There will never be a man I want to succeed more as Hibs manager (head coach).

I’m much the same in I really want to see him succeed too , honestly think recently we’ve played well tbh and the Celtic game isn’t really going to define our season .. next few games are massively important though.

[Jim44]

I think we would all like to see Gray succeed, but the sad fact is that he is not getting enough decent results to justify keeping him. At very best we might avoid relegation but that won’t be enough to save him. If he isn’t away by the turn of the year, he will, in my opinion, be away for next season. It’s pity we can’t get rid of the wasters above him at the same time. That’s not realistic tho’ and they’ll still be there to appoint yet another failure to prolong the misery. Depressing times, I’m afraid.

[chrisski33]

How much of Motherwell being poor was down us being good though? .. they beat St Mirren today in paisley btw .

One good result and Motherwell were poor. So what they beat St.Mirren, St.Mirren's results are up and down. We are bottom of the league BTW!

[matty_f]

I think we would all like to see Gray succeed, but the sad fact is that he is not getting enough decent results to justify keeping him. At very best we might avoid relegation but that won’t be enough to save him. If he isn’t away by the turn of the year, he will, in my opinion, be away for next season. It’s pity we can’t get rid of the wasters above him at the same time. That’s not realistic tho’ and they’ll still be there to appoint yet another failure to prolong the misery. Depressing times, I’m afraid.

I thought it was inevitable that Gray would be sacked after the defeat in Dundee. I really didn’t see any way in which he could turn it around but I think the draw and win that followed were just enough to warrant keeping him on.

What I would say though, is that I think if we’d beat Dundee 0-3, drawn with Aberdeen and lost 1-4 to Motherwell (so the same results in reverse order, finishing with the inept performance) he’d have been done for, but after playing well and picking up points the way we did, it made it very difficult for the board to sack him.

A lot now hinges on Saturday’s game against Ross County. Win that and we can start looking upwards imho. It takes some pressure off and despite yesterday’s defeat to Celtic, maintains some momentum.

We have, however, been here many times before over the last couple of seasons. This side has not shown itself to be one that does well in the “we need to win this one” matches. Quite the opposite, to be honest.

If we lose/fail to win then it’s one win in five games since the vote of confidence statement and, at best, 5 points from 15. That’s unacceptable and will probably be the end of the road for Gray, imho.

[Ribs1875]

Simon Murray would have buried those chances today

C'mon behave! Simon Murray is not good enough to play for us. I stand by what I say, alarms bells rang when we were after him in the summer.

[Donegal Hibby]

One good result and Motherwell were poor. So what they beat St.Mirren, St.Mirren's results are up and down. We are bottom of the league BTW!

You keep saying Motherwell were poor which is fair enough though we were good so maybe them being poor was done to us ? , they also beat hertz 3-1 there ….

A couple of you keep drumming on about us being bottom of the league for some reason like we don’t know …. Strange, very strange!

[ChilliEater]

If he'd been sacked after the Dundee game and we had immediately appointed someone else who got the exact same performances and results against Aberdeen, Motherwell and Celtic, would we be feeling confident that the new guy was a good appointment and we were going to climb the table?

[Crammond Hibee]

Of course we can and we should. 2 wins in 16.

The last few weeks have only papered over the cracks for me. Gray should have been relieved of his duties weeks ago.

👍🏻

[Greenio]

Said it before... But folk are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Its not that weve hired ***** managers, its that those in charge havent supported them to be successful.

Ive not seen anything to tell me that they know how to make this appointment work

Until that changes, we stick with DG cos i think hes got a better chance than most of dealing with this season and not getting us relegated

[Alfred E Newman]

The next couple of weeks will make him or break him. If we get away from the foot of the table and start climbing the league , surviving this crisis could be the making of him as a manager. If we are still bottom at the New Year sadly he will be gone.

[eastmainsmsh]

It's teams know where our weak links are and individual errors as well how cant the players perform like that at fir park baffling

[Contador]

If he'd been sacked after the Dundee game and we had immediately appointed someone else who got the exact same performances and results against Aberdeen, Motherwell and Celtic, would we be feeling confident that the new guy was a good appointment and we were going to climb the table?

This is a good point and highlights why patience and a more longer term view can be beneficial. I have been Gray’s biggest critic but to his credit he has got a tune out of what he has to work with the last 3 games.

It is critical we win this Ross County game if we want any chance of staying out of a relegation fight, especially with 4 away games out of 5 coming shortly.

[McD]

Said it before... But folk are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Its not that weve hired ***** managers, its that those in charge havent supported them to be successful.

Ive not seen anything to tell me that they know how to make this appointment work

Until that changes, we stick with DG cos i think hes got a better chance than most of dealing with this season and not getting us relegated


Based on what? You seriously think that most managers couldn’t do better? He’s literally doing worse than every manager in 40+ years


You’ve said those in charge haven’t supported him to be successful - he handpicked at least some of players who came in over the summer, he repeatedly picked a keeper who would have been as well not being on the pitch, repeatedly made/makes poor substitutions, picks players not performing, refused to change formation when it wasn’t working (something also aimed at 2 previous managers he worked under), chose a coaching staff that are inexperienced and appear to be based on folk he knows. None of that is on other people at the club (that’s not a defence of any of those people btw, they need to go as well)

[Heisenberg]

His desire to bring Myko back has bitten him in the arse. Another couple of key chances missed yesterday then off injured.

[Aldo]

Said it before... But folk are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Its not that weve hired ***** managers, its that those in charge havent supported them to be successful.

Ive not seen anything to tell me that they know how to make this appointment work

Until that changes, we stick with DG cos i think hes got a better chance than most of dealing with this season and not getting us relegated

Ok. Tell me how those running the club haven’t supported Gray and how do they make this appointment work.

For the record IG has made a complete arse of the on field side of things but for me he’s supported DG on the transfer front this season.

[bingo70]

Said it before... But folk are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Its not that weve hired ***** managers, its that those in charge havent supported them to be successful.

Ive not seen anything to tell me that they know how to make this appointment work

Until that changes, we stick with DG cos i think hes got a better chance than most of dealing with this season and not getting us relegated

What you’re saying isn’t a great revelation to be honest. I think pretty much everyone agrees that there’s issues above Gray as well as with him.

You can also see from recent communications and appointment of the recruitment guy from Bournemouth that there’s significant changes happening within the ‘footballing department’, it’s the black knights ball now.

[blackpoolhibs]

Gray is a dead man walking, the black knights Will bring their own man in at some stage, it's just a matter of time.

[flash]

Becomes really tiring the manager being on a permanent knife edge so must be 100 times worse for him.

What will be will be but hopefully regardless of whether he is the long term option we can win a few football matches and claw our way up that table.

[J-C]

Gray is a dead man walking, the black knights Will bring their own man in at some stage, it's just a matter of time.

They were very quick to get Iriola in at Bournemouth when they took over, seemingly not happy when Malky and Gray were appointed , which points to them wanting their own guys in these positions.

[easty]

They were very quick to get Iriola in at Bournemouth when they took over, seemingly not happy when Malky and Gray were appointed0 , which points to them wanting their own guys in these positions.

And they were proven right to do so down there.

[JimBHibees]

His desire to bring Myko back has bitten him in the arse. Another couple of key chances missed yesterday then off injured.

And when inured does tend to be out for a while hopefully not

[JimBHibees]

If he'd been sacked after the Dundee game and we had immediately appointed someone else who got the exact same performances and results against Aberdeen, Motherwell and Celtic, would we be feeling confident that the new guy was a good appointment and we were going to climb the table?

Very good point personally wouldn’t be sacking him now then review in Jan

[J-C]

And they were proven right to do so down there.

I have a feeling after the fall out at boardroom level over the appointments of Malky and Gray, which is well documented the BK group didn't get involved with any deals during the summer window. I'm sure if they had been allowed to have their own guys in place, a few loans and possibly better signings might have happened but it looks like they've sat back and said on you go and see what happens, only when things have gone tits up are they now getting involved.

[chrisski33]

Said it before... But folk are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Its not that weve hired ***** managers, its that those in charge havent supported them to be successful.

Ive not seen anything to tell me that they know how to make this appointment work

Until that changes, we stick with DG cos i think hes got a better chance than most of dealing with this season and not getting us relegated
Yes those higher up are to blame too, however SDG is to blame too as he is in charge of the tactics, team selection, subs etc. As a result we are bottom of the league unless we get a run of winning games, not draws with the odd win we are getting relegated.
SDG has also been part of failed management and coaching teams so how on earth board felt he was good enough at this stage of his coaching career to manage us is daft.

[Ribs1875]

We desperately need to offload and free the wage bill. It's imperative the 3 to 5 signings coming are better than what is there.

Gray is gonna get given the time. Will he be kept on beyond the end of the season. It would be hard to justify it if will are narrowly avoiding relegation with not cup runs. In the flip side, the recruitment has been unacceptable and you can only piss with the cock your given.

[B.H.F.C]

Said it before... But folk are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Its not that weve hired ***** managers, its that those in charge havent supported them to be successful.

Ive not seen anything to tell me that they know how to make this appointment work

Until that changes, we stick with DG cos i think hes got a better chance than most of dealing with this season and not getting us relegated

He’s won 2 out of 16 league games. The blame for that doesn’t lie above him, as big as the problem there are.

Telling yesterday that the biggest errors were from the players he most wanted and the one he made captain in Myko, Triantis and Newell.

His decision to bring Campbell on yesterday was sackable in itself as well.

[The Modfather]

Said it before... But folk are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Its not that weve hired ***** managers, its that those in charge havent supported them to be successful.

Ive not seen anything to tell me that they know how to make this appointment work

Until that changes, we stick with DG cos i think hes got a better chance than most of dealing with this season and not getting us relegated

Another way to look at it is if the Black Knights had been doing the hiring how likely is it that they would have chosen Gray and a back room team of May, Sammon & Craig as the best options available?

Gray is hopefully the last poor footballing decision made solely by Kensell & Gordon. Let’s start the utilising the Black Knights expertise. If they decide Gray is the best man, either in the short or mid term, so be it. There’s not a case for judging Gray favourably on his own merit unfortunately.

[andrew70]

He’s won 2 out of 16 league games. The blame for that doesn’t lie above him, as big as the problem there are.

Telling yesterday that the biggest errors were from the players he most wanted and the one he made captain in Myko, Triantis and Newell.

His decision to bring Campbell on yesterday was sackable in itself as well.

I agree mostly with the former and at the game I agreed with the latter. I wanted to see Gayle on as a direct replacement but, and I say this as no fan of Campbell, Josh offers a necessary commitment that you need to play at Celtic Park.

The game plan stayed the same and we created openings. Youan was very good up front on his own and the shape stayed in place.

I’ve been very vocal about Gray this season and perhaps expected it to go awry when Myk went off injured and subsequent substitution but credit to Campbell that it never.

We’ll all have our opinions week to week and I do think Gray is still up against it but yesterday he was let down by the players you mention. Albeit slightly harsh on Triantis who aside from the late goal had played very well in the middle with great use of the ball beating the Celtic press.

[blackpoolhibs]

And when inured does tend to be out for a while hopefully not

Would it make any difference if he was fit for the next game, the guy is a poor centre forward that if he was available on a free transfer, would anyone really want him?

[B.H.F.C]

Very good point personally wouldn’t be sacking him now then review in Jan

If results don’t pick up then we’ll be detached at the bottom of the league by then, given 4 of our next 5 games are against those we’re chasing.

We aren’t in a position to just wait. He has to win next week then follow that up with more results.

[B.H.F.C]

I agree mostly with the former and at the game I agreed with the latter. I wanted to see Gayle on as a direct replacement but, and I say this as no fan of Campbell, Josh offers a necessary commitment that you need to play at Celtic Park.

The game plan stayed the same and we created openings. Youan was very good up front on his own and the shape stayed in place.

I’ve been very vocal about Gray this season and perhaps expected it to go awry when Myk went off injured and subsequent substitution but credit to Campbell that it never.

We’ll all have our opinions week to week and I do think Gray is still up against it but yesterday he was let down by the players you mention. Albeit slightly harsh on Triantis who aside from the late goal had played very well in the middle with great use of the ball beating the Celtic press.

Triantis did play well enough throughout the game. But it’s another big mistake. He did exactly the same thing at Motherwell last week and they hit the post.

Costs us too regularly.

[matty_f]

Triantis did play well enough throughout the game. But it’s another big mistake. He did exactly the same thing at Motherwell last week and they hit the post.

Costs us too regularly.

Two mistakes - didn’t track his runner for the first as well. Completely switched off.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Said it before... But folk are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Its not that weve hired ***** managers, its that those in charge havent supported them to be successful.

Ive not seen anything to tell me that they know how to make this appointment work

Until that changes, we stick with DG cos i think hes got a better chance than most of dealing with this season and not getting us relegated
I tend to agree. I so want it to work with him but Saturday has got to be an absolute must win - another one yes.

[tamig]

I agree mostly with the former and at the game I agreed with the latter. I wanted to see Gayle on as a direct replacement but, and I say this as no fan of Campbell, Josh offers a necessary commitment that you need to play at Celtic Park.

The game plan stayed the same and we created openings. Youan was very good up front on his own and the shape stayed in place.

I’ve been very vocal about Gray this season and perhaps expected it to go awry when Myk went off injured and subsequent substitution but credit to Campbell that it never.

We’ll all have our opinions week to week and I do think Gray is still up against it but yesterday he was let down by the players you mention. Albeit slightly harsh on Triantis who aside from the late goal had played very well in the middle with great use of the ball beating the Celtic press.

Disagree. It was a poor substitution. Youan and Miller were causing a lot of damage down the right. That stopped once Ellie was moved centrally. Ellie did well in the middle but we lost that threat down the right.

[expresso]

Would it make any difference if he was fit for the next game, the guy is a poor centre forward that if he was available on a free transfer, would anyone really want him?

He played yesterday like your mate’s big friend called in to make up the numbers at a game of fives

[Greenio]

Based on what? You seriously think that most managers couldn’t do better? He’s literally doing worse than every manager in 40+ years


You’ve said those in charge haven’t supported him to be successful - he handpicked at least some of players who came in over the summer, he repeatedly picked a keeper who would have been as well not being on the pitch, repeatedly made/makes poor substitutions, picks players not performing, refused to change formation when it wasn’t working (something also aimed at 2 previous managers he worked under), chose a coaching staff that are inexperienced and appear to be based on folk he knows. None of that is on other people at the club (that’s not a defence of any of those people btw, they need to go as well)

Has changing managers the last 5 times got us success?

But you want to do it again? How many more times do you want us do that before you accept that its actually not the manager at Hibs thats the issue?

BK goes
Gordons sell
Black Knights take majority


Thats what we should be callin for, no another spin of this absolute ****** embarrassment of a merrigoround weve been dealt for years

Deal with the cause, no the effect

[bingo70]

Has changing managers the last 5 times got us success?

But you want to do it again? How many more times do you want us do that before you accept that its actually not the manager at Hibs thats the issue?

BK goes
Gordons sell
Black Knights take majority


Thats what we should be callin for, no another spin of this absolute ****** embarrassment of a merrigoround weve been dealt for years

Deal with the cause, no the effect

Black knights are taking over the football side of things though. It’s not been announced officially but it’s clear from the recent communications and appointment of Garvan Stewart that’s what’s happening,

It’s not going to be appointing the new manager to work under the same people as before.

[JohnM1875]

Has changing managers the last 5 times got us success?

But you want to do it again? How many more times do you want us do that before you accept that its actually not the manager at Hibs thats the issue?

BK goes
Gordons sell
Black Knights take majority


Thats what we should be callin for, no another spin of this absolute ****** embarrassment of a merrigoround weve been dealt for years

Deal with the cause, no the effect

Both things can be true though.

You can have a **** head coach at the exact same time as you have a **** set up above him. Both things can need changing.

Getting stuff right above Gray isn't going to change his coaching ability or make his subs any better.

If Gray gets beat against County in the next game he needs to go. I don't think we will though, I think we’ll win and he’ll get til the January window to see where we are.

[Greenio]

Black knights are taking over the football side of things though. It’s not been announced officially but it’s clear from the recent communications and appointment of Garvan Stewart that’s what’s happening,

It’s not going to be appointing the new manager to work under the same people as before.

Can we get that in writing?!

[Greenio]

Both things can be true though.

You can have a **** head coach at the exact same time as you have a **** set up above him. Both things can need changing.

Getting stuff right above Gray isn't going to change his coaching ability or make his subs any better.

If Gray gets beat against County in the next game he needs to go. I don't think we will though, I think we’ll win and he’ll get til the January window to see where we are.

I hope he does get till Jan and I hope he stays to keep us up. Im sick to death of the only solution people have is sack the manager. We sacked all the managers... It didnt make us any better

[bingo70]

Can we get that in writing?!

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/2024/december/03/garvan-stewart-appointed-as-head-of-recruitment/

Look at the last few paragraphs of that statement. That’s as close to it being in writing as you’ll get 😃

[Smartie]

Both things can be true though.

You can have a **** head coach at the exact same time as you have a **** set up above him. Both things can need changing.

Getting stuff right above Gray isn't going to change his coaching ability or make his subs any better.

If Gray gets beat against County in the next game he needs to go. I don't think we will though, I think we’ll win and he’ll get til the January window to see where we are.

Gray’s subs will get better the second we have a higher quality of sub fit and available to play.

[Real Emerald]

Has changing managers the last 5 times got us success?

But you want to do it again? How many more times do you want us do that before you accept that its actually not the manager at Hibs thats the issue?

BK goes
Gordons sell
Black Knights take majority


Thats what we should be callin for, no another spin of this absolute ****** embarrassment of a merrigoround weve been dealt for years

Deal with the cause, no the effect

The quality of our squad is definitely the major problem but no manager will survive the worst start to a season for 45 years. We have to up the quality in January and Gray has to hope the form improves as he is on borrowed time and will rightly be sacked if it doesn’t.

[HoboHarry]

I hope he does get till Jan and I hope he stays to keep us up. Im sick to death of the only solution people have is sack the manager. We sacked all the managers... It didnt make us any better

Correct and nor will it ever make us better.

[bingo70]

Correct and nor will it ever make us better.

It’s not correct because it’s not the only solution people have.

Being bottom of the league in December will always mean pressure on the manager. There’s also a lot of pressure on the people above though and most seem pretty encouraged by the more active role the BK’s are taking.

[Smartie]

I hope he does get till Jan and I hope he stays to keep us up. Im sick to death of the only solution people have is sack the manager. We sacked all the managers... It didnt make us any better

I’m with you 100%.

We only ever seem to have one person who is accountable for our performances.

I have issues with some of his decisions and actions, I’ve wanted him to do things differently all season long and still do now. Do I want him sacked though? Absolutely not.

We should also acknowledge that whilst a fair criticism of him was that of his lack of experience - he’s currently gaining experience doing exactly the job he’s employed to do. Not sure we should tuft him out for someone with a few hundred games in charge of Airdrie or Juventus under 18s or the like.

[bingo70]

I’m with you 100%.

We only ever seem to have one person who is accountable for our performances.

I have issues with some of his decisions and actions, I’ve wanted him to do things differently all season long and still do now. Do I want him sacked though? Absolutely not.

We should also acknowledge that whilst a fair criticism of him was that of his lack of experience - he’s currently gaining experience doing exactly the job he’s employed to do. Not sure we should tuft him out for someone with a few hundred games in charge of Airdrie or Juventus under 18s or the like.

Why did Brian McDermott leave and get replaced by Malky Mackay then?

The appointment of Gray was absolutely mental imo, it just made no sense whatsoever and it’s panning out how some of us feared it would. Just because there’s been issues above him, that are being addressed by the Black Knights being involved doesn’t mean he is bullet proof.

Gray should leave imo but it that should be just one of other changes, that appear to be already happening.

[He's here!]

The quality of our squad is definitely the major problem but no manager will survive the worst start to a season for 45 years. We have to up the quality in January and Gray has to hope the form improves as he is on borrowed time and will rightly be sacked if it doesn’t.

When does the 'worst start' to the season end? We're nearly halfway through it.

[Real Emerald]

When does the 'worst start' to the season end? We're nearly halfway through it.

Exactly, it’s amazing he’s still here TBH. He’s obviously been given time to turn things around by the board and owners but it certainly wont continue if our results don’t miraculously improve. They’re maybe giving him until we get new recruits in the January window, who knows?

[1van Sprou7e]

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/2024/december/03/garvan-stewart-appointed-as-head-of-recruitment/

Look at the last few paragraphs of that statement. That’s as close to it being in writing as you’ll get 😃

My question is why would the board not make an explicit announcement considering the mounting pressure on them.

Making a clear statement that BK are taking over football operations would go a long way in terms of protecting themselves.

My worry is BK still have way less influence than they hoped

[Donegal Hibby]

I hope he does get till Jan and I hope he stays to keep us up. Im sick to death of the only solution people have is sack the manager. We sacked all the managers... It didnt make us any better

Agree 👍

[WhileTheChief..]

I hope he does get till Jan and I hope he stays to keep us up. Im sick to death of the only solution people have is sack the manager. We sacked all the managers... It didnt make us any better

Only because we appointing absolutely useless people to the role.

If we find a decent manager, then yeah, let's to stick with him. But sticking with someone who can't help us win games is doing more damage than good.

Makes much more sense to keep changing until we get to right.

[Ribs1875]

Only because we appointing absolutely useless people to the role.

If we find a decent manager, then yeah, let's to stick with him. But sticking with someone who can't help us win games is doing more damage than good.

Makes much more sense to keep changing until we get to right.

Give him the next 5 games. To be honest we need at least 3 wins from these 5 games. In his tenure so far we have managed 2 wins from 16, lately we have had a good response. We lost yesterday to a team no-one in here expected to beat at their home. Schmeichel got motm, which shows we are doing the right things. We need to carry our positives into the next game.

[Vini1875]

December is very much a mini league campaign for us. All winnable games and if we won all of them, it would lift us clear of danger, it would also be enough to give DG until the end of the season at least. Winning 3 out of 5, I'm not sure where that would leave us and unsure where it would leave Gray. We have had a recent upturn in form to be sure but it is 1 win, 1 draw and 2 losses, if we continue with that form, we are bang in trouble and probably time to press the panic button.

Gray appears to be learning on the job and I am hoping he learns quickly enough for him and us. That said any manager would struggle with the current squad and as we get to the end of the season too many will be worried about getting injured and not having the security of next season. It's hard to state how important December will be for Gray and Hibs. I don't know how he is sleeping at the moment, but I doubt it is relaxed.

[Aldo]

Give him the next 5 games. To be honest we need at least 3 wins from these 5 games. In his tenure so far we have managed 2 wins from 16, lately we have had a good response. We lost yesterday to a team no-one in here expected to beat at their home. Schmeichel got motm, which shows we are doing the right things. We need to carry our positives into the next game.

He’s had 16 games and won two but you want to give him the next 5 but he needs three wins from those games. Really.

But we are not doing the right things. We are not winning it really is that simple. DG and his coaching team are part of the problem and they are just not good enough.

What I will also say is his record speaks for itself, as does the majority of his football, tactics and subs.

[He's here!]

His desire to bring Myko back has bitten him in the arse. Another couple of key chances missed yesterday then off injured.

I was pleased when we brought him back as I thought we hadn't got the chance to see the best of him last time round. Been really disappointed by how laboured he looks though. Why so nervy going through one on one yesterday? Is he lacking confidence or actually just not very good? That pen at Ibrox was perhaps a warning sign.

[JimBHibees]

He’s had 16 games and won two but you want to give him the next 5 but he needs three wins from those games. Really.

But we are not doing the right things. We are not winning it really is that simple. DG and his coaching team are part of the problem and they are just not good enough.

What I will also say is his record speaks for itself, as does the majority of his football, tactics and subs.

You don’t think it has been improved last three games

[He's here!]

December is very much a mini league campaign for us. All winnable games and if we won all of them, it would lift us clear of danger, it would also be enough to give DG until the end of the season at least. Winning 3 out of 5, I'm not sure where that would leave us and unsure where it would leave Gray. We have had a recent upturn in form to be sure but it is 1 win, 1 draw and 2 losses, if we continue with that form, we are bang in trouble and probably time to press the panic button.

Gray appears to be learning on the job and I am hoping he learns quickly enough for him and us. That said any manager would struggle with the current squad and as we get to the end of the season too many will be worried about getting injured and not having the security of next season. It's hard to state how important December will be for Gray and Hibs. I don't know how he is sleeping at the moment, but I doubt it is relaxed.

Winning 3 out of 5 would be magnificent in the context of what's gone before. I reckon most us would take that. It would see us into transfer window with a little breathing space to build.

Zero chance we're winning all 5.

[Ribs1875]

He’s had 16 games and won two but you want to give him the next 5 but he needs three wins from those games. Really.

But we are not doing the right things. We are not winning it really is that simple. DG and his coaching team are part of the problem and they are just not good enough.

What I will also say is his record speaks for itself, as does the majority of his football, tactics and subs.

I totally agree with you. The job is far too big for him and decision making is not his strong point either.

Its evident the board are sticking with him and there has been more positive signs lately. The players equally have to carry the blame as does the board for the way things have panned out this season. I think the next five games realistically are vital as it's make or break for him.

If we continue with a lack of points then where do we go? Do they part ways or do they give him time? This board doesn't seem to know and appears to be winging it as they go along.

[Aldo]

You don’t think it has been improved last three games

Some Jim but not enough to go yes let’s give him 5 more games.

Personally whilst there has been some improvement I believe it’s just papering over the cracks and we are just not very good. This includes coaching staff and players.

We cannot keep saying ok next game is huge for him and is must win. We are well past that point for me!

[Aldo]

I totally agree with you. The job is far too big for him and decision making is not his strong point either.

Its evident the board are sticking with him and there has been more positive signs lately. The players equally have to carry the blame as does the board for the way things have panned out this season. I think the next five games realistically are vital as it's make or break for him.

If we continue with a lack of points then where do we go? Do they part ways or do they give him time? This board doesn't seem to know and appears to be winging it as they go along.

This is a collect cluster**** but as another poster mentioned he should have gone after the St Mirren game just before the international break.

To answer your question - he goes. His record is horrendous.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What was Alex Ferguson’s first 3 seasons like at Man U?

Trouble for SDG is he didn’t have a track record. Hancr why SAF said in a talk Malcolm MacPherson related he attended to the Hibs Observer - yet he hired
Sauzee and now SDG. Wonder if Malcolm learns and if he had hid did that explain things and how would he on reflection self-evaluate himself based on that admission.

[HoboHarry]

What was Alex Ferguson’s first 3 seasons like at Man U?

Same with Arteta, it's not so long ago Arsenal fans wanted him out too. I cant think of any club that succeeded long term by rifling through managers but according to some on here it's the best way forward.

[The Modfather]

You don’t think it has been improved last three games

There has been improvement but it’s from, literally, a rock bottom starting point. We will have to show a considerable upturn in results just to match last seasons 8th. The bar has been set so low I fear Gray managing to get us out of a mess of his making will be held up as an achievement and a reason to give him more time/another season.

If we do survive this season and he is still here in the summer and he’s the man we ask to rebuild the squad there’s a real risk that he sets us back years. He’s not improved a single player and his recruitment appears to be to go big on players that have failed us for years (Campbell, Cadden & Newell etc) or players he’s seen before (Triantis & Myko). I hope he is kept away from the January window and works with what he’s given by Garvin Stuart.

[Donegal Hibby]

For me over the last three games I seen enough to suggest he should be given time . I also think players are very much playing for him too .

[Ribs1875]

This is a collect cluster**** but as another poster mentioned he should have gone after the St Mirren game just before the international break.

To answer your question - he goes. His record is horrendous.

Results and where we sit in the league has been unacceptable. Yes a lot of managers would have lost their jobs. That said look what they did. Sacked the human egg, brought in another manager and are no better off for it. You can only piss with the cock your given.

Our team is not good enough. We knew this going into the season, alarm bells rang when Joe Newell was made captain and we were chasing Simon Murray.

Will have to wait and see what happens between now and the window opening.

[Aldo]

Results and where we sit in the league has been unacceptable. Yes a lot of managers would have lost their jobs. That said look what they did. Sacked the human egg, brought in another manager and are no better off for it. You can only piss with the cock your given.

Our team is not good enough. We knew this going into the season, alarm bells rang when Joe Newell was made captain and we were chasing Simon Murray.

Will have to wait and see what happens between now and the window opening.

DG signed a dozen players but most alarmingly set the style of play (hoofball to Miller), tactics and subs. Horrendous football for long periods.

I agree that our team is not good enough but our coaching staff are just as bad imho.

The Modfather for me covers it in his post above.

[Aldo]

There has been improvement but it’s from, literally, a rock bottom starting point. We will have to show a considerable upturn in results just to match last seasons 8th. The bar has been set so low I fear Gray managing to get us out of a mess of his making will be held up as an achievement and a reason to give him more time/another season.

If we do survive this season and he is still here in the summer and he’s the man we ask to rebuild the squad there’s a real risk that he sets us back years. He’s not improved a single player and his recruitment appears to be to go big on players that have failed us for years (Campbell, Cadden & Newell etc) or players he’s seen before (Triantis & Myko). I hope he is kept away from the January window and works with what he’s given by Garvin Stuart.

Excellent post! [emoji122]

[He's here!]

There has been improvement but it’s from, literally, a rock bottom starting point. We will have to show a considerable upturn in results just to match last seasons 8th. The bar has been set so low I fear Gray managing to get us out of a mess of his making will be held up as an achievement and a reason to give him more time/another season.

If we do survive this season and he is still here in the summer and he’s the man we ask to rebuild the squad there’s a real risk that he sets us back years. He’s not improved a single player and his recruitment appears to be to go big on players that have failed us for years (Campbell, Cadden & Newell etc) or players he’s seen before (Triantis & Myko). I hope he is kept away from the January window and works with what he’s given by Garvin Stuart.

We've already been set back years by the hapless Gordon regime.

With regard to Gray, were he to get us, say, a 7th or 8th place finish, would that not indicate he's progressing as a new, young manager and worthy of being given more time to build on that? Or is he already written off as a dud?

I saw enough in the Motherwell and Aberdeen games to shift my mindset a little. However, it's a very small step in the right direction which would be utterly undone if we were to turn in a shocker v County.

I can't honestly say for sure where I stand on this right now.

[The Modfather]

Same with Arteta, it's not so long ago Arsenal fans wanted him out too. I cant think of any club that succeeded long term by rifling through managers but according to some on here it's the best way forward.

Ferguson had unprecedented success at Aberdeen to point to as reason to stick with him. Arteta bought himself time by winning the FA cup in his first season.

Remember our own Steve Kean while he was Blackburn manager. Their owners stick with him despite it getting worse every week. How did that go?

Montgomery was parachuted in mid season and didn’t have a summer window to prepare. It was a popular decision when he was sacked for finishing 8th. What’s different between it being the correct decision to sack Montgomery, but Gray being bottom after 16 games, having won 2 games seems to deserve more time? Their playing careers appears to be the only differentiating factor I can see.

[Smartie]

There has been improvement but it’s from, literally, a rock bottom starting point. We will have to show a considerable upturn in results just to match last seasons 8th. The bar has been set so low I fear Gray managing to get us out of a mess of his making will be held up as an achievement and a reason to give him more time/another season.

If we do survive this season and he is still here in the summer and he’s the man we ask to rebuild the squad there’s a real risk that he sets us back years. He’s not improved a single player and his recruitment appears to be to go big on players that have failed us for years (Campbell, Cadden & Newell etc) or players he’s seen before (Triantis & Myko). I hope he is kept away from the January window and works with what he’s given by Garvin Stuart.

The thing is, for those of us defending Gray - a few weeks ago it was a tough job. Form was poor and the direction of travel wasn’t promising, even if we could point to stuff like narrow margins or poor refereeing decisions or the like. Without much credit in the bank as manager it was growing harder to make a case for him based in the football we were watching.

Whilst it may only be a handful of games, momentum does seem to have shifted and shifting momentum can be incredibly difficult. So whilst it can’t be denied that our league position and record isn’t anywhere near good enough, I’m not convinced we’d manage to source a superior replacement who would join us right now. Other than vague, nameless “BK using their contacts” stuff.

[Smartie]

We've already been set back years by the hapless Gordon regime.

With regard to Gray, were he to get us, say, a 7th or 8th place finish, would that not indicate he's progressing as a new, young manager and worthy of being given more time to build on that? Or is he already written off as a dud?

I saw enough in the Motherwell and Aberdeen games to shift my mindset a little. However, it's a very small step in the right direction which would be utterly undone if we were to turn in a shocker v County.

I can't honestly say for sure where I stand on this right now.

I don’t know if he has enough in the bank to survive a proper horror show and it will take him a while to put credit in that bank. And every team is capable of having a horror show, this squad definitely does.

[The Modfather]

We've already been set back years by the hapless Gordon regime.

With regard to Gray, were he to get us, say, a 7th or 8th place finish, would that not indicate he's progressing as a new, young manager and worthy of being given more time to build on that? Or is he already written off as a dud?

I saw enough in the Motherwell and Aberdeen games to shift my mindset a little. However, it's a very small step in the right direction which would be utterly undone if we were to turn in a shocker v County.

I can't honestly say for sure where I stand on this right now.

If he finishes 7th or 8th is it progress? Progress from being bottom of the league after 16 games, not anything more IMO. He needs a Robson-esque finish to the season to remain next season IMO. Anything short of that and I’d be asking the Black Knights to decide if he’s the best candidate out there or replace him.

[HoboHarry]

Ferguson had unprecedented success at Aberdeen to point to as reason to stick with him. Arteta bought himself time by winning the FA cup in his first season.

Remember our own Steve Kean while he was Blackburn manager. Their owners stick with him despite it getting worse every week. How did that go?

Montgomery was parachuted in mid season and didn’t have a summer window to prepare. It was a popular decision when he was sacked for finishing 8th. What’s different between it being the correct decision to sack Montgomery, but Gray being bottom after 16 games, having won 2 games seems to deserve more time? Their playing careers appears to be the only differentiating factor I can see.
I didn't once say on here that Monty should have been sacked when he was. My honest opinion is that he was trying to get to the summer window so he could clear the decks. That's what he did in Australia and I think he would've done the same here. Instead we fired him and started again. Again.

[Ribs1875]

The biggest issue we have is there are a lot of fringe players out of contract. Ben Kensell and Ian Gordon have both said at points this season that those out of contracts are unlikely to be extended. Rightfully so, but you can't say that as some of these modern day footballers are easily offended and often throw the toys out the pram. No wonder a lot of them downed tools. They are happy to collect a wage and think the owners are bellends.

Terry Butcher did that and we got relegated.

[easty]

You don’t think it has been improved last three games

The problem I have with it is… it’s the same chat I was reading on here back in September. We beat St Johnstone, drew with Dundee and Killie and played well (but lost) at Ibrox.

Folk then were saying that it showed Gray was improving us, except that “good form” turned out to be the blip and we reverted to utter *****.

I dinnae want to go through cycles of “oh look we’ve played well SDG is learning” every couple of months. We need points.

[The Modfather]

The thing is, for those of us defending Gray - a few weeks ago it was a tough job. Form was poor and the direction of travel wasn’t promising, even if we could point to stuff like narrow margins or poor refereeing decisions or the like. Without much credit in the bank as manager it was growing harder to make a case for him based in the football we were watching.

Whilst it may only be a handful of games, momentum does seem to have shifted and shifting momentum can be incredibly difficult. So whilst it can’t be denied that our league position and record isn’t anywhere near good enough, I’m not convinced we’d manage to source a superior replacement who would join us right now. Other than vague, nameless “BK using their contacts” stuff.

Gray is averaging 0.75 points per league game. Critchley, who has now won more league games than Gray, is averaging 1.38. The St Johnstone manager is averaging 1.13 points per game. I don’t know what Naismith and Levein were averaging but the new managers must be performing a lot better.

The last 3 performances are doing a lot of heavy lifting but it’s almost too little too late. Not getting relegated and matching last seasons 8th seems about the ceiling for Gray this season IMO.

[easty]

I didn't once say on here that Monty should have been sacked when he was. My honest opinion is that he was trying to get to the summer window so he could clear the decks. That's what he did in Australia and I think he would've done the same here. Instead we fired him and started again. Again.

Did he do that in Australia?

He took over a team that had just finished 3rd in the league with 42 points, and next season he finished 5th with 42 points, then 2nd with 44 points.

Then he came to us and CCM finished top with 55 points.

[Ribs1875]

Managerial appointments are a difficult process and their jobs are sometimes doomed by decisions from above.

We took Butcher who was doing well with Inverness and thought he would be the ideal man to take us forward. He caused unrest and Petrie buried his dead in the sand like he done with Collins.

Heckinbottom it wasn't working out with us (perhaps sacked too soon?) , but then looked at how well he's done since.

Williamson came in following Sauzee, we were financially screwed at that time following the collapse of the sky deals and debts. The 03/04 season we cut right back by offloading our high earners and were fielding youth players.

Yogi had Stokes sold to celtic on the last day of the summer window and all we got in return was Daryll Duffy.

[HoboHarry]

Did he do that in Australia?

He took over a team that had just finished 3rd in the league with 42 points, and next season he finished 5th with 42 points, then 2nd with 44 points.

Then he came to us and CCM finished top with 55 points.
He won the league with CCM in 22/23 did he not?

[Northernhibee]

He won the league with CCM in 22/23 did he not?

Finished second which put them in the final (an odd setup over there) and absolutely horsed Melbourne City in the final - put six past them. CCM had the second smallest budget in the league and they benefited the following season from the players he developed there.

[easty]

He won the league with CCM in 22/23 did he not?

He won the playoff trophy thing they do after the season ends. League winner gets the premier plate, then the playoff competition winners get a cup.

[Just_Jimmy]

Has changing managers the last 5 times got us success?

But you want to do it again? How many more times do you want us do that before you accept that its actually not the manager at Hibs thats the issue?

BK goes
Gordons sell
Black Knights take majority


Thats what we should be callin for, no another spin of this absolute ****** embarrassment of a merrigoround weve been dealt for years

Deal with the cause, no the effectSDG isn't the only problem at hibs, but he's not part of the solution.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[cubehindthegoal]

There has been improvement but it’s from, literally, a rock bottom starting point. We will have to show a considerable upturn in results just to match last seasons 8th. The bar has been set so low I fear Gray managing to get us out of a mess of his making will be held up as an achievement and a reason to give him more time/another season.

If we do survive this season and he is still here in the summer and he’s the man we ask to rebuild the squad there’s a real risk that he sets us back years. He’s not improved a single player and his recruitment appears to be to go big on players that have failed us for years (Campbell, Cadden & Newell etc) or players he’s seen before (Triantis & Myko). I hope he is kept away from the January window and works with what he’s given by Garvin Stuart.

But he wouldn’t be the first manager to be judged poor early and then turn it round as he beds in and brings in new players. Though I am undecided tbh. But given the last three matches, I want to see now if that is a corner turned, and we see further progression, as if those were the first three results of the season we would have been reasonably happy with that start. I think he deserves that chance, on balance, and though I have doubts about his ability to do it, and it feels like a roller coaster as it has been for years now, he surely deserves some more time.

But …

I want to see that progress now turn into points, before we feel it’s getting too late. So for me, I’d be saying:

- next three matches a minimum of 5 points
- three matches after that a minimum of 6 points

That would convince me we can consider things have turned around. And if that seems like undue pressure on the manager and players, well I would reply that if you can’t cope with that relatively mild pressure, you will have no chance coping with the pressure of a relegation battle. And if that target isn’t met, then that would be a week or so into the January window, and time to change things unfortunately.

[McD]

Has changing managers the last 5 times got us success?

But you want to do it again? How many more times do you want us do that before you accept that its actually not the manager at Hibs thats the issue?

BK goes
Gordons sell
Black Knights take majority


Thats what we should be callin for, no another spin of this absolute ****** embarrassment of a merrigoround weve been dealt for years

Deal with the cause, no the effect



It’s possible for there to be more than one thing wrong at the club at the same time, but what’s more embarrassing than the merry go round is a club of our size being in dire danger of relegation - which the manager is directly responsible for. There’s a lot of issues at Hibs above Hibs, but he’s culpable for where we are this season.


I notice you didn’t have an answer for anything I pointed out that Gray is responsible for, BK and IG aren’t the ones making poor substitutions, and awful tactics.


As for the patronising comment about when will I accept that it’s not actually the manager that’s the issue, when will you accept that the manager is at fault for a lot this season? Unless you’ve got proof that IG is picking the team or BK is taking the training and setting the tactics, then your apparent belief that David Gray is blameless is quite frankly mystifying

[bingo70]

There has been improvement but it’s from, literally, a rock bottom starting point. We will have to show a considerable upturn in results just to match last seasons 8th. The bar has been set so low I fear Gray managing to get us out of a mess of his making will be held up as an achievement and a reason to give him more time/another season.

If we do survive this season and he is still here in the summer and he’s the man we ask to rebuild the squad there’s a real risk that he sets us back years. He’s not improved a single player and his recruitment appears to be to go big on players that have failed us for years (Campbell, Cadden & Newell etc) or players he’s seen before (Triantis & Myko). I hope he is kept away from the January window and works with what he’s given by Garvin Stuart.

Good post, totally agree.

Lots of people putting weight on how we do next weekend and the importance of getting the win but Ross County at home should in theory be one of our easiest fixtures.

Even if we do win next week, it’s the fixtures following that game that worry me and should be the barometer for how we’re doing, not Ross County at home.

[Albahibs]

Fans rightly criticise a number of this squad for not being good enough, no heart/no spirit/wage collectors, or having downed tools for whatever reason. Its been there to see for a few years now, that the squad needs a root and branch overseeing of retention and replacement. However, if David Gray can safely steer us away from relegation, surely then, he's clearly shown that he has the potential to step us up to the next level, given that he can indeed manage a squad that very few Hibs fans have faith in.

There has been vastly improved performances of late, including the Celtic away game that could easily have seen us win if we'd taken some of our clear cut chances.

I do agree though, that the Ross County game is massive for us and David Gray. The team simply has to build on the momentum of improvement and acquire more points on the board.

If we do manage 7th or 8th ultimately, then for me David Gray will have shown bottle, character and management leadership that should be rewarded by being given the opportunity of transforming the squad for the next again season at least.

Next Saturday is a huge game for everyone connected with Hibs. A win is absolutely crucial. As said if David Gray can steer us away from the threat of relegation, he will have managed to do it, under the severest of managerial pressure.

[Contador]

We've already been set back years by the hapless Gordon regime.

With regard to Gray, were he to get us, say, a 7th or 8th place finish, would that not indicate he's progressing as a new, young manager and worthy of being given more time to build on that? Or is he already written off as a dud?

I saw enough in the Motherwell and Aberdeen games to shift my mindset a little. However, it's a very small step in the right direction which would be utterly undone if we were to turn in a shocker v County.

I can't honestly say for sure where I stand on this right now.

Whilst I agree, the club has been a floundering with wasted potential for decades long before the Gordon's. 4 3rd place finishes in 48 years, 3 of which were over 20 years ago is a disgrace for a club our size in this country.

The Black Knights investment gave us an oppourtunity to be optimistic that we may finally be able to build towards some sort of sustained success, instead we have massively regressed to the point it's as worrying a time for the club as it has been for many a decade, with no clear 'out' of where we can go from here ownership wise.

[GreenCastle]

If you look at the fixtures from now till the split - I would be amazed if we win more than 2 in a row.

The reason I say this is usually after 2 winnable games we play the Old Firm / Hearts or Aberdeen.

Gray needs to get wins and ideally go on a run but I will be amazed if he manages to win 3 in a row unless it’s in the bottom 6 split.

I’ve seen positives last few games but lose to Ross County or even draw (which will feel like a loss and it’s worrying times again.

We still have an issue of conceding far too many goals and also not scoring enough of our chances.

Looking long term - bottom 6 should always be a sackable offence - I really can’t see us making top 6.

We need the fans to really just do all they can to back the team and avoid relegation - until that’s mathematically possible I think this could be a pretty nervy 2nd half of the season so the fans backing will be vital

[Fifeshirehibs]

Another game where we lose a goal/goals after 'tactical' subs, that's 11 possibly 12 out of 16 games this has happened !!!! How inspiring was our captain yesterday !!!!

[Ribs1875]

Ever since we let go of Dempster and Mathie, the club has lost its connection to the supporters. We took on a bunch of corporate numpties on higher wages. The end result is what we have today. It's frustrating, because although we have spent money we have wasted a couple of mil in a combination of failed signings.

David Gray should never have been appointed in the summer. Its far too big to be given to one as their first job when you look at the squad of players. I feel we already seen this episode when Maloney was in charge. We needed an experienced manager who knew the league and would have seen through all the yes men nonsense at the club.

Today we are a far cry from the 2016 cohort who stood up in all departments from top to bottom to re-establish some identity. A club like his should be a minimum of top 6 finish. Looking at the current mess, it'll be a long time before we are competing for European spots.

Our expectation vs reality is what splits opinion. Whenever we have done well it's been when we have had exciting up and coming players who are on to bigger and better things.

[TrinityHFC]

Ever since we let go of Dempster and Mathie, the club has lost its connection to the supporters. We took on a bunch of corporate numpties on higher wages. The end result is what we have today. It's frustrating, because although we have spent money we have wasted a couple of mil in a combination of failed signings.

David Gray should never have been appointed in the summer. Its far too big to be given to one as their first job when you look at the squad of players. I feel we already seen this episode when Maloney was in charge. We needed an experienced manager who knew the league and would have seen through all the yes men nonsense at the club.

Today we are a far cry from the 2016 cohort who stood up in all departments from top to bottom to re-establish some identity. A club like his should be a minimum of top 6 finish. Looking at the current mess, it'll be a long time before we are competing for European spots.

Our expectation vs reality is what splits opinion. Whenever we have done well it's been when we have had exciting up and coming players who are on to bigger and better things.

Fed up hearing about Dempster and Mathie as if it was some sort of golden era on and off the park. It really wasn’t. They failed miserably to kick us on from winning the cup, which happened during 3 yrs spent in the championship.

They hired a rookie manager themselves who won us a cup. Lennon was an experienced manager and they ended up in a complete mess with that relationship.

Thinks might not be great but that’s largely how it has been for us in my lifetime. It hasn’t dramatically changed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Fed up hearing about Dempster and Mathie as if it was some sort of golden era on and off the park. It really wasn’t. They failed miserably to kick us on from winning the cup, which happened during 3 yrs spent in the championship.

They hired a rookie manager themselves who won us a cup. Lennon was an experienced manager and they ended up in a complete mess with that relationship.

Thinks might not be great but that’s largely how it has been for us in my lifetime. It hasn’t dramatically changed.

Aye, winning the Scottish Cup and finishing with a record points total, going on an great unbeaten Derby run, battering Rangers frequently whilst also giving Celtic a few bloody noses, whilst watching one of the best Hibs sides of the last 50 years was absolutely not a golden era.

[we are hibs]

Some folk evidently weren't about during those times. It's obvious from the way they speak about that time.


Clearly it wasn't plain sailing. it was ***** losing to a terrible rangers team in the play offs in the first season and losing a semi to Falkirk, it was ***** the run of form we had from March until May in 2016, it was ***** losing to Falkirk in the play offs, the last season was a slog for large parts but we got the job done. But those 3/4 years were absolutely miles ahead of the last 3 years we just had. Championship or no Championship. This current lot would have us still in the championship 10 years on if they had been around at the time.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Ray_]

Another game where we lose a goal/goals after 'tactical' subs, that's 11 possibly 12 out of 16 games this has happened !!!! How inspiring was our captain yesterday !!!!


"How inspiring was our captain yesterday !!!!"

I've no idea what game you watched on Saturday?, but this ongoing rhetoric is so boring.

[SickBoy32]

Fed up hearing about Dempster and Mathie as if it was some sort of golden era on and off the park. It really wasn’t. They failed miserably to kick us on from winning the cup, which happened during 3 yrs spent in the championship.

They hired a rookie manager themselves who won us a cup. Lennon was an experienced manager and they ended up in a complete mess with that relationship.

Thinks might not be great but that’s largely how it has been for us in my lifetime. It hasn’t dramatically changed.

😂😂 folk like you walk among us , scary !!

Scottish Cup win.
Upper hand in derbies.
Regular hun skelpings.
Record pts total in the top league.
Record ST sales.
3rd placed finish in their final season.

To compare any of that to the disaster that Kensell and the wider recruitment committee have spearheaded , is quite frankly incredible.

[Paulie Walnuts]

😂😂 folk like you walk among us , scary !!

Scottish Cup win.
Upper hand in derbies.
Regular hun skelpings.
Record pts total in the top league.
Record ST sales.
3rd placed finish in their final season.

To compare any of that to the disaster that Kensell and the wider recruitment committee have spearheaded , is quite frankly incredible.

Yeah but the hospitality suites weren’t as good as they could be and some of the advertising boards around the pitch weren’t paid for so none of that football nonsense matters.

[flash]

Yeah but the hospitality suites weren’t as good as they could be and some of the advertising boards around the pitch weren’t paid for so none of that football nonsense matters.

Not one single person in the entire history of this forum has ever posted the opinion you have just disparage.

What's the ****ing point?

[Ribs1875]

Fed up hearing about Dempster and Mathie as if it was some sort of golden era on and off the park. It really wasn’t. They failed miserably to kick us on from winning the cup, which happened during 3 yrs spent in the championship.

They hired a rookie manager themselves who won us a cup. Lennon was an experienced manager and they ended up in a complete mess with that relationship.

Thinks might not be great but that’s largely how it has been for us in my lifetime. It hasn’t dramatically changed.

Winning the Scottish cup as a 2nd tier team was a massive achievement in my eyes. We signed players with pedigree like Ambrose, Marciano, McLaren and Co. I followed us home and away spending half a day queuing for derby tickets. That was one of the best eras supporting hibs.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Not one single person in the entire history of this forum has ever posted the opinion you have just disparage.

What's the ****ing point?

A handful of posters have constantly used that as a stick to beat Dempster with whilst claiming that things weren’t particularly great under her stewardship. So aye, they have.

The post in question even refers to it not being a golden era, on and off the park. If winning the Scottish cup isn’t part of a golden era at Hibs and you’re referencing off the park stuff as reason for that then that’s absolutely the opinion that is being disparaged.

[flash]

A handful of posters have constantly used that as a stick to beat Dempster with whilst claiming that things weren’t particularly great under her stewardship. So aye, they have.

The post you refer to, parts of which I don't happen to agree with, accuses the club of not building on the Cup win which is undoubtedly true.

By the time Dempster left she was practically being run out of town due to the loyalty points issue.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Nah you ain't getting away with that.

Your point was some folk don't care about the football as long as the hospitality is good.

Be happy to see those posts when you have a minute.

If a poster is going to claim that a period in which we won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years, saw season ticket numbers sky rocket, saw us go on a great unbeaten run against Hearts, regularly skelp Rangers, go toe to toe with Celtic, have a decent run in Europe, get our records points total, have one of the best midfields in the country along with numerous other cracking players wasn’t a golden era, and reference off field stuff as reason for that, then that’s exactly what they’re saying, because any sane person wouldn’t be referencing the football side of things as not being a golden era when that’s what was unfolding infront of us on the pitch.

So yes, I absolutely am getting away with that.

[Smartie]

Nah you ain't getting away with that.

Your point was some folk don't care about the football as long as the hospitality is good.

Be happy to see those posts when you have a minute.

It's definitely brought up by some, occasionally.

Nobody is ever going to have a perfect record but I don't really get that Dempster isn't universally revered for the upturn in our footballing fortunes that happened whilst she was at our club

[flash]

If a poster is going to claim that a period in which we won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years, saw season ticket numbers sky rocket, saw us go on a great unbeaten run against Hearts, regularly skelp Rangers, go toe to toe with Celtic, have a decent run in Europe, get our records points total, have one of the best midfields in the country along with numerous other cracking players wasn’t a golden era, and reference off field stuff as reason for that, then that’s exactly what they’re saying, because any sane person wouldn’t be referencing the football side of things as not being a golden era when that’s what was unfolding infront of us on the pitch.

So yes, I absolutely am getting away with that.

I have changed my previous post as I didn't think the original one got my point across so I apologise for that.

The Cup win was the greatest day in the club's history but we were back to being a shambles again by the time these people left the club.

[flash]

It's definitely brought up by some, occasionally.

Nobody is ever going to have a perfect record but I don't really get that Dempster isn't universally revered for the upturn in our footballing fortunes that happened whilst she was at our club

Happy to accept that we may all be at cross purposes here.

My point purely relates to whether some people don't care about the football as long as the hospitality is great.

[B.H.F.C]

I have changed my previous post as I didn't think the original one got my point across so I apologise for that.

The Cup win was the greatest day in the club's history but we were back to being a shambles again by the time these people left the club.

Shambles is probably a bit strong IMO.

After we won the cup we got promoted the following season, finished 4th with a record points total, 5th the season after then had the season that was cut short with Covid. When she left we were half way through a season where we ended up 3rd.

She wasn’t perfect but the footballing side has been worse since she left.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Happy to accept that we may all be at cross purposes here.

My point purely relates to whether some people don't care about the football as long as the hospitality is great.

There’s a handful of posters who constantly dig out Dempster due to perceived commercial failures (which is harsh considering her ability to recruit and then sell players imo) and constantly tell us she wasn’t as good as people make her out to be. These same posters also tell us repeatedly that the Gordon’s and Kensell are doing a good job because of their commercial ‘successes’.

Given how Dempster and Gordon’s/Kensell have both managed to succeed in the areas the others didn’t (Dempster, succesful in football, Gordon’s/Kensell successful in hospitality etc) then I’d suggest if your backing goes to the latter over the former then they don’t care about the football over the commercials.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Shambles is probably a bit strong IMO.

After we won the cup we got promoted the following season, finished 4th with a record points total, 5th the season after then had the season that was cut short with Covid. When she left we were half way through a season where we ended up 3rd.

She wasn’t perfect but the footballing side has been worse since she left.

:agree:

[flash]

There’s a handful of posters who constantly dig out Dempster due to perceived commercial failures (which is harsh considering her ability to recruit and then sell players imo) and constantly tell us she wasn’t as good as people make her out to be. These same posters also tell us repeatedly that the Gordon’s and Kensell are doing a good job because of their commercial ‘successes’.

Given how Dempster and Gordon’s/Kensell have both managed to succeed in the areas the others didn’t (Dempster, succesful in football, Gordon’s/Kensell successful in hospitality etc) then I’d suggest if your backing goes to the latter over the former then they don’t care about the football over the commercials.

All of which goes to show what a massive opportunity the Gordons wasted by not getting the right people in to run the club.

[SickBoy32]

The Cup win was the greatest day in the club's history but we were back to being a shambles again by the time these people left the club.

Shambles? We finished 3rd, getting to a final and semi final in Dempster final season 😂 Only got worse for us since she left the club.

The shambles you speak of is entirely down to the Gordon’s and Kensell. We become more and more of a circus with each passing year.

Mathie was punted due to his inability to play moneyball as per the owners instructions. Its got worse since he was replaced too…

[GreenPJ]

Shambles? We finished 3rd, getting to a final and semi final in Dempster final season 😂 Only got worse for us since she left the club.

The shambles you speak of is entirely down to the Gordon’s and Kensell. We become more and more of a circus with each passing year.

Mathie was punted due to his inability to play moneyball as per the owners instructions. Its got worse since he was replaced too…

Mathie was the one who let McGrath slip through our fingers due to timing of bid?

[J-C]

When Dempster took over the club was in a mess after Butcher, it was a reset button. Stubbs was still a rookie but had 2 good right hand men, a wee bit naive hence why it took 3 years for promotion. It went tits up with Lennon's 2nd season and we've not really recovered from Ross's sacking.

[itslegaltender]

Shambles? We finished 3rd, getting to a final and semi final in Dempster final season 😂 Only got worse for us since she left the club.

The shambles you speak of is entirely down to the Gordon’s and Kensell. We become more and more of a circus with each passing year.

Mathie was punted due to his inability to play moneyball as per the owners instructions. Its got worse since he was replaced too…

Mathie was a disaster.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Mathie was a disaster.

The signings of David Gray, Darren McGregor, Liam Fontaine, Dylan McGeough. Scott Allan, Fraser Fyvie, John McGinn, Anthony Stokes, Liam Henderson, Dom Malonga, Efe Ambrose, Martin Boyle, Marciano and a whole host of others were disastrous indeed. :agree:

[bingo70]

The signings of David Gray, Darren McGregor, Liam Fontaine, Dylan McGeough. Scott Allan, Fraser Fyvie, John McGinn, Anthony Stokes, Liam Henderson, Dom Malonga, Efe Ambrose, Martin Boyle, Marciano and a whole host of others were disastrous indeed. :agree:

I don’t really know much about what Mathie did or didn’t do well and tbh I don’t really care that much either way.

One thing I don’t really get though, if he was as good as you and other are suggesting, why haven’t they gone onto better things?

Same could be said for Dempster I suppose although I know she had personal issues that may have impacted that.

[Ribs1875]

Stubbs wasn't the answer for us. Had we not won the cup we would have been wanting him sacked. Even after winning the cup and him leaving I was happy he left to go to Rotherham, even more so when Lennon came in.

As I said in a previous post, the powers above can determine how well a manager will do. Right now we need a manager who has been there and done it in Scottish football who will challenge this current board to take their heads out their ***** and smell the ****.

[WhileTheChief..]

When Dempster took over the club was in a mess after Butcher, it was a reset button. Stubbs was still a rookie but had 2 good right hand men, a wee bit naive hence why it took 3 years for promotion. It went tits up with Lennon's 2nd season and we've not really recovered from Ross's sacking.

We finished with our record points total in the first year back up.

No way that can be described as a mess, it’s the best league season we’d had in donkeys years.

Even Lennon’s final season was better than anything we’ve had since Ross got sacked.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t really know much about what Mathie did or didn’t do well and tbh I don’t really care that much either way.

One thing I don’t really get though, if he was as good as you and other are suggesting, why haven’t they gone onto better things?

Same could be said for Dempster I suppose although I know she had personal issues that may have impacted that.

I’ve no idea, I haven’t particularly followed what they’ve been up to since leaving Hibs.

The job they done at Hibs though was excellent, even if sponsors weren’t maxed out and hospitality suites weren’t industry leading. How good they done at Hibs is pretty clear for everyone to see regardless of their career paths after that.

[He's here!]

I have changed my previous post as I didn't think the original one got my point across so I apologise for that.

The Cup win was the greatest day in the club's history but we were back to being a shambles again by the time these people left the club.

Lennon's tenure as boss starting to unravel was when things went a bit awry. Until then the club barely put a foot wrong under Dempster's guidance. Lennon was an excellent, exciting 'big time' appointment after the disappointment of losing Stubbs and until we started to lose the best players from the cup-winning team he did a very sound job. I don't think Hecky was a bad appointment, but he had a rebuild to undertake and he was a bit unlucky Doidge didn't start to fire until after he was sacked. Ross picked up the baton and did well but we definitely lost a bit of the aura/clout the cup-winning team carried. Never a 'shambles' though.

The Gordons coming in the door was the direct cause of the subsequent shambles.

[flash]

Shambles was maybe overstating it but the last few months of Lennon was an absolute car crash regardless of what came before or after it.

[snedzuk]

The post you refer to, parts of which I don't happen to agree with, accuses the club of not building on the Cup win which is undoubtedly true.

By the time Dempster left she was practically being run out of town due to the loyalty points issue.

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/club/financialstatements/

This is interesting in comparing the headlines for 2019, which I think was Leeann's leaving, with the most recent set.

[He's here!]

I don’t really know much about what Mathie did or didn’t do well and tbh I don’t really care that much either way.

One thing I don’t really get though, if he was as good as you and other are suggesting, why haven’t they gone onto better things?

Same could be said for Dempster I suppose although I know she had personal issues that may have impacted that.

Not sure if alchemy's the right word, but sometimes the coming together of a partucular group of people just clicks. The fact each went their separate ways and didn't do so well underlines that. Bit like certain band members going solo.

[J-C]

We finished with our record points total in the first year back up.

No way that can be described as a mess, it’s the best league season we’d had in donkeys years.

Even Lennon’s final season was better than anything we’ve had since Ross got sacked.
I was talking about the end of Lennon's tenure, falling out with hierarchy abd players.

[eastmainsmsh]

It's catering that's out depth 😆

[HoboHarry]

It's catering that's out depth 😆
If that's real I wouldn't give that to the dog.

[007]

Took the previous regime 25 years to win the Scottish Cup so if we've not got another one by 2044 then, Gordons out!!!

[eastmainsmsh]

If that's real I wouldn't give that to the dog.

💯 real think it was reheated under Kensells sunbed

[The Modfather]

A vital win today, a brief bit of restbite from relegation, and up to the heady heights of 8th! Some gaping cracks papered over with that win though.

It won’t happen, but would be a fitting time to let Gray go out on a high and the Black Knights continue to sort the football side of the club.

[Unseen work]

First half was horrible but well done for getting the win

Up to 8th now but some really tough games coming up

Need to keep moving up and getting wins/points

[blackpoolhibs]

Even after a win, he has to go. The way he set us up to play in that first half would see us pumped by most teams, and lets be honest here, Ross County are sheite, but they made us look worse for long parts of that game.

Glad of the win, but i still have a huge fear with this lot of players and manager.

[Hibees1973]

I just can't see us being a serious, organised, professional and cute outfit under Gray.

Most weeks it's chaos. Sluggish starts to games which degenerates to a shambles, with a bit of off the cuff moments from one or two of our players.

The only hope we have is that there may be one or two other teams worse than us.

[andrew_dundee]

First half certainly wasn't vintage but the goal came exactly when we needed it. Some nervy moments but we were the better side in the second half. If we hadn't had the second penalty it could have gone very differently, but good to finally have some luck. Glad to see Youan score too.

[Basildon Hibs]

Even after a win, he has to go. The way he set us up to play in that first half would see us pumped by most teams, and lets be honest here, Ross County are sheite, but they made us look worse for long parts of that game.

Glad of the win, but i still have a huge fear with this lot of players and manager.

Correct. He still has to go.

[Hibiza]

Yup, take
Kensell and the Gordon's too.

[Jones28]

Needed to win.

Won.

I’m ****ing delighted for the guy.

Today was a win ugly game, it was always going to be playing that *****.

[Mcbizz1998]

Well done David Gray! I’m delighted with that win and I’m going to enjoy it!

[ChuckNor]

Comments calling for him to be sacked after a win and what has been a decent string of results and performances for us are very very telling. Some people on here want him to fail because it would reaffirm their belief he should never have been employed in the first place.

Well done getting that lot to wake up at half time, David. A much improved second half that meant we were worthy of the three points. A poor first half. Please drop Triantis for Kwon. Keep playing Gayle.

[bingo70]

Even after a win, he has to go. The way he set us up to play in that first half would see us pumped by most teams, and lets be honest here, Ross County are sheite, but they made us look worse for long parts of that game.

Glad of the win, but i still have a huge fear with this lot of players and manager.

I agree with you.

A semi competent side would have been out of sight after the first half hour. Second half I actually felt the players dug the manager out of a hole.

For us to be as bad as we were in the first half in what was such an important game is massively concerning for me.

Great to get the win and the more of them the better but I’ll remain firmly in the concerned camp.

[Since452]

Even after a win, he has to go. The way he set us up to play in that first half would see us pumped by most teams, and lets be honest here, Ross County are sheite, but they made us look worse for long parts of that game.

Glad of the win, but i still have a huge fear with this lot of players and manager.

Agree with this

[Coco Bryce]

Even after a win, he has to go. The way he set us up to play in that first half would see us pumped by most teams, and lets be honest here, Ross County are sheite, but they made us look worse for long parts of that game.

Glad of the win, but i still have a huge fear with this lot of players and manager.

This. Team set-up and formations are shambolic.

[Unseen work]

Comments calling for him to be sacked after a win and what has been a decent string of results and performances for us are very very telling. Some people on here want him to fail because it would reaffirm their belief he should never have been employed in the first place.

Well done getting that lot to wake up at half time, David. A much improved second half that meant we were worthy of the three points. A poor first half. Please drop Triantis for Kwon. Keep playing Gayle.

I don’t believe for a second anyone wants him to fail

I think the concern is that we still don’t look particularly good or like we have a game plan and we’re 17 games in

County could and probably should have been a couple of goals up within half an hour or so

There’s no way he’ll be sacked because the last 4 results/performances will go down as an improvement. We’re 8th now but still only 2 points off the bottom


Be interesting to see where we are after the next 5 games

Away to Aberdeen Hearts and St Johnstone
Home to Killie and Rangers

We need to get about 7 points from that minimum id say. Beat Killie and St Johnstone, draw with Hearts and defeats to rangers and Aberdeen.

[The Modfather]

Comments calling for him to be sacked after a win and what has been a decent string of results and performances for us are very very telling. Some people on here want him to fail because it would reaffirm their belief he should never have been employed in the first place.

Well done getting that lot to wake up at half time, David. A much improved second half that meant we were worthy of the three points. A poor first half. Please drop Triantis for Kwon. Keep playing Gayle.

I think that’s a poor, un constructive post. Talking about folk having agendas rather than listening to what’s been said and debating those points instead.

A win is a win, and it feels good to be out of the relegation places. However I’m not sure that first half performance would result in a 3-1 win to any other team outside of Ross County at home and the game lost by half time against most other teams. I feel we still look like one of the worst coached teams in the league and the fundamental issues Gray watched under successive managers are still evident well into this season. I want the Black Knights to review Grays position and if they think he is the best candidate out there, and we have the best coaching team available, all the better.

[bingo70]

This. Team set-up and formations are shambolic.

I don’t actually agree with this.

We’ve accidentally stumbled upon a formation that is close to working, I don’t blame him for sticking with it. Even the players he’s picking I get for the most part.

It’s the lack of tactics and plan when we have the ball that bother me. It’s like the team are sent out in a formation and told to get on with it.

[Real Emerald]

Shambolic first half but we absolutely had to get 3 points today and we did but I don’t see a future under Gray. The players aren’t good enough but the set up and tactics are also a big part of it and at this point in time Gray is out of his depth, unfortunately.

[Waxy]

Correct. He still has to go.

Managers cant also improve no?

[CapitalGreen]

I don’t actually agree with this.

We’ve accidentally stumbled upon a formation that is close to working, I don’t blame him for sticking with it. Even the players he’s picking I get for the most part.

It’s the lack of tactics and plan when we have the ball that bother me. It’s like the team are sent out in a formation and told to get on with it.

The formation wasn’t working today, we looked better after we took Iredale off and reverted to a back 4.