Gray is out of his depth’

[The Modfather]

I’m absolutely gutted we didn’t hang on there as I was looking forward to doling out a good few old-fashioned post derby GIRFUYs.

Only this time they’d have been aimed mainly at our own fans.

More than anything David Gray needs a David Gray - someone who can drive a team on and stretch the neck muscles further when it’s needed most.

Well, he needs a ******* goalie who can do the basics too but that really goes without saying.

I remain convinced that Gray is not the problem.

I would agree our problems long pre date Gray. So he’s not the root cause, but what are the things a David Gray team is good at? Or the things we can build upon?

We seem totally reliant on set pieces to create any chances and hoof the ball forward hoping to win said set pieces. Then camp in our box as soon as we do score from a set piece to a predictably negative outcome.

This season we are making Montgommery’s side look swashbuckling and robust in comparison to this seasons rudderless nothingness IMO. Each passing week makes the job for the next man harder to avoid the relegation places.

[Lago]

So do you think Gray is good enough to be Head Coach/Manager.

His inexperience and inability to learn from his own mistakes (subs) and the horrendous football.

This has the feeling of Duff Jimmy with not many wins over a period of time.

We don’t win midweek and Gray and the board can all go.

We are relegation candidates and as it stands it’s on Gray
Wednesday away at Ross County, I wouldn't put a bet on hibs to win.

[Aldo]

Wednesday away at Ross County, I wouldn't put a bet on hibs to win.

Indeed. Tbh I never ever put Hibs on my Coupon.

[Stairway 2 7]

What level of job do we think David Grat will get post hibs, I think league one chairman will be humming and hawing over taking him. With our finances we should be getting the best of our leagues managers bar the top half dozen

[Iain G]

He keeps playing the gk and the right back.

9 games in and I still don’t know what our game plan is

His subs almost always make us worse

Do you want me to keep going ?

One of his first subs scored our goal, just saying!

[CathroMustStay]

If we lose in Dingwall then SDG should be sacked.

Looking at the midweek fixtures, it's very possible they go the following way:
-We lose in Dingwall, Yams beat Killie, Celtic beat Dundee, Sheep beat huns, St Mirren beat St Johnstone and United-Motherwell draw

In that scenario the table (assuming Celtic and Sevco win today) would look like this:

1) Celtic P10 Pts 28
2) Sheep P10 Pts 28
3) Sevco P10 Pts 19
4) D.Utd P10 Pts 16
5) M'well P10 Pts 14
6) R.County P11 Pts 13
7) St Mirren P11 Pts 11
8) St Johnstone P11 Pts 10
9) Hearts P11 Pts 9
10) Dundee P10 Pts 9
11) Killie P10 Pts 9
12) Hibs P10 Pts 6

It would also represent 1 win from 10 league games and 2 wins from 13 starting from the Kelty Hearts humiliation. I don't think we could look past that, because of Gray's club legend status.

[GreenCastle]

Just back from game and feels like 2 points dropped.

Hearts were pretty average - if we could finish the game would be over. You just can’t miss 3 good chances in derbies.

Another long throw - another keeper mistake - another simple crap goal to lose - its basics and it’s killing us.

I don’t get the JDH sub - hasn’t played for months - what a crazy game to chuck him back into.

[Stairway 2 7]

One of his first subs scored our goal, just saying!

He didn't get started by gray, the boy who did missed two absolute sitters

[chasitup]

One of his first subs scored our goal, just saying!

And after that he bottled it again trying to see it out, which has worked so well all season hasn’t it?

[Iain G]

He didn't get started by gray, the boy who did missed two absolute sitters

The point was his subs were ****...

[Jones28]

Just back from game and feels like 2 points dropped.

Hearts were pretty average - if we could finish the game would be over. You just can’t miss 3 good chances in derbies.

Another long throw - another keeper mistake - another simple crap goal to lose - its basics and it’s killing us.

I don’t get the JDH sub - hasn’t played for months - what a crazy game to chuck him back into.

What’s the problem with the JDH sub though? He took off Hoilett who was great today but put in a hell of a shift and they must have thought was tiring. It wasn’t a like for like sub, but it wasn’t like they subbed Hoilett off for some clogger centre half.

[timewilltell]

He’s not out his depth

He just needs to be brave and drop the boy miller at right back and cancel the loan deal for the goalie as he’s the worst goalie I think I’ve ever seen.

Flaps At everything and his mistake cost the goal by giving away a corner.

Utterly pathetic

He is well and truly out of his depth I'm afraid. Delusional to think otherwise.

Trust me, David Grey WILL be sacked, he won’t see out the season, just a matter of time. Then we start all over again.

[Iain G]

He is well and truly out of his depth I'm afraid. Delusional to think otherwise.

Trust me, David Grey WILL be sacked, he won’t see out the season, just a matter of time. Then we start all over again.

Oooh hark at Nostradamus! 🤣

[J-C]

I was happy to give him the benefit of the doubt and back him but it's looing clear now he was nowhere near ready to take the helm at the club. I'm still to see what our style and shape is under Gray, tactically still seems very naïve with strange subs during games and if Triantis was a player that Gray wanted, then that's a worry.

[Greenio]

He keeps playing the gk and the right back.

9 games in and I still don’t know what our game plan is

His subs almost always make us worse

Do you want me to keep going ?

What subs would you have made?

[Dashing Bob S]

I’m absolutely gutted we didn’t hang on there as I was looking forward to doling out a good few old-fashioned post derby GIRFUYs.

Only this time they’d have been aimed mainly at our own fans.

More than anything David Gray needs a David Gray - someone who can drive a team on and stretch the neck muscles further when it’s needed most.

Well, he needs a ******* goalie who can do the basics too but that really goes without saying.

I remain convinced that Gray is not the problem.

I agree. You appoint a rookie you have to let them get experience. We’ve appointed experienced managers before and you still have the syndrome of people wanting them out because results and performances are unacceptable.

It wasn’t great today. We played badly but still should have beaten a poor team who had a decent home win with a new manager bounce and inflated a victory against some Cypriot postmen to the level of a bold and audacious win against a ranking La Liga or Serie A outfit.

But I think Hibs (and Hearts for that matter) dire as they both are, will start climbing the table. It won’t be spectacular, but I expect the ineptitude to morph into some kind of mediocrity.

That’s the point where we have a real decision to make, and that one is: can Gray improve sufficiently to take us forward from there?

[J-C]

What’s the problem with the JDH sub though? He took off Hoilett who was great today but put in a hell of a shift and they must have thought was tiring. It wasn’t a like for like sub, but it wasn’t like they subbed Hoilett off for some clogger centre half.

He could've put Rudi on, Hearts put on a 17yr old who scored their goal, have some faith in our young lads and not someone who was seemingly one we wanted rid off in the window, JDH was not the answer at that time, jeez I'd even have preferred Levitt rather than him.

[Stairway 2 7]

What’s the problem with the JDH sub though? He took off Hoilett who was great today but put in a hell of a shift and they must have thought was tiring. It wasn’t a like for like sub, but it wasn’t like they subbed Hoilett off for some clogger centre half.

It's a defensive substitution. It has a mentality shift for the whole team, it rarely works

[Greenio]

His subs were *****?

His sub scored our goal

[The Modfather]

What’s the problem with the JDH sub though? He took off Hoilett who was great today but put in a hell of a shift and they must have thought was tiring. It wasn’t a like for like sub, but it wasn’t like they subbed Hoilett off for some clogger centre half.

The subs were all about what we would do without the ball. Chase, harry and get behind the ball. Fine in itself. It meant when we did get the ball we could do nothing with it other than hoof it into the Hearts half and get set to defend. Repeat that for the last 15 or 20 minutes, with predictable outcome.

[paddy1875]

What’s the problem with the JDH sub though? He took off Hoilett who was great today but put in a hell of a shift and they must have thought was tiring. It wasn’t a like for like sub, but it wasn’t like they subbed Hoilett off for some clogger centre half.

I’d say it was a needless sub. The pressure wasn’t on us at the time.

Taking hoilett off it takes away an attacking threat we’ve had for the whole game. Hearts can then advance a defender further forward up the park as JDH is a defensive midfield player.

Hes also not featured in months?

Even if hoilett was tiring, he still keeps a hearts player an extra 5-10 yards back to his own goal line.

It’s more a mentality thing. That sub reeked of clinging on for the result. That invites pressure. It’s not worked for months either so why would he think that would change today.


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[Jones28]

He could've put Rudi on, Hearts put on a 17yr old who scored their goal, have some faith in our young lads and not someone who was seemingly one we wanted rid off in the window, JDH was not the answer at that time, jeez I'd even have preferred Levitt rather than him.

I want Rudi to do well but he was mince last week against Utd, couldn’t hold the ball to save himself. Levitt I would happily never see in a Hibs shirt again. I think he’s a total *****bag.

[BoomtownHibees]

What’s the problem with the JDH sub though? He took off Hoilett who was great today but put in a hell of a shift and they must have thought was tiring. It wasn’t a like for like sub, but it wasn’t like they subbed Hoilett off for some clogger centre half.

It wasn’t so much who he brought on but it ended up with us having 4 defensive midfielders on the pitch and pushing NMW out wide left. It basically said to Hearts, “here, you have the ball, we have no interest in getting up the park from now”. He’s made these types of subs over and over and they have all produced the same outcome

[blackpoolhibs]

Boyle was quoted in the DR yesterday saying we needed to be more like the team under Jack Ross; winning ugly, closing out games when we're 1-0 up, using the 'dark arts'.


Right now I'd love to be watching the team grinding out results like they were when we finished third under Ross.

Never going to happen with these owners.

[Stairway 2 7]

He could've put Rudi on, Hearts put on a 17yr old who scored their goal, have some faith in our young lads and not someone who was seemingly one we wanted rid off in the window, JDH was not the answer at that time, jeez I'd even have preferred Levitt rather than him.

Heard Bezbatchenko of black Knights wanted rid of Mackay, Gray, JDH and Campbell and a half dozen others when he looked round last month. Mackay and others obviously disagreed

[Springbank]

What subs would you have made?

Triantis off for NMW (as on a yellow)

Keep Hoillett on (learm from Tannadice) as you need to hold the ball when you get it - or you're asking for trouble

I'm not bringing on passionless imposters at the pointy end of a derby

Only serious professionals need expect the call

So Levitt, JDH, McKirdy you can forget it.

[Centre Hawf]

Heard Bezbatchenko of black Knights wanted rid of Mackay, Gray, JDH and Campbell and a half dozen others when he looked round last month. Mackay and others obviously disagreed

No idea who he is really but he clearly knows the basics so I trust him already.

[Since90+2]

Heard Bezbatchenko of black Knights wanted rid of Mackay, Gray, JDH and Campbell and a half dozen others when he looked round last month. Mackay and others obviously disagreed

As much as I don't think Mackay has done well, I find that hard to believe. He's been in the role a few months and I'm not sure a "look round" would lead someone to believe he should be gone. It's not as if he was out on the pitch and you could assess his ability in such a short space of time.

The players I can possibly believe but doesn't make sense that someone could come to that conclusion from a walk round with a guy who's role is office based.

[FitbaFolkKen]

No idea who he is really but he clearly knows the basics so I trust him already.

Probably a poster on here


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[Centre Hawf]

As much as I don't think Mackay hasn't done well, I find that hard to believe. He's been in the role a few months and I'm not sure a "look round" would lead someone to believe he should be gone. It's not as if he was out on the pitch and you could assess his ability in such a short space of time.

Perhaps they just didn't like his track record of being a ***** manager and sending racist and homophobic messages and didn't need to see any more?

[Coco Bryce]

Heard Bezbatchenko of black Knights wanted rid of Mackay, Gray, JDH and Campbell and a half dozen others when he looked round last month. Mackay and others obviously disagreed

To be fair, most of us have noticed this.

[Jones28]

It wasn’t so much who he brought on but it ended up with us having 4 defensive midfielders on the pitch and pushing NMW out wide left. It basically said to Hearts, “here, you have the ball, we have no interest in getting up the park from now”. He’s made these types of subs over and over and they have all produced the same outcome

We let them have the ball most of the game. I’ve no doubt there was a reason Hoilett was brought off.

[Since90+2]

Perhaps they just didn't like his track record of being a ***** manager and sending racist and homophobic messages and didn't need to see any more?

Aye, it will be that right enough.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

We needed an extra body in the middle of the park all match. I said at HT I'd have gone 433 with Boyle and Triantis coming off

No major issues with the subs today (one scored) but I do have a major problem with nobody on the park pushing us up the park. No leadership. Scary

[NC1875]

His subs were *****?

His sub scored our goal

His subs set us up to defend. Something we’re not very good at. I don’t know if you’d noticed that in the previous 8 games ?

Are you happy with Gray ?

What are we good at ? What’s the game plan ? Has he improved any players ? I’m ****ing stumped to think of one positive

But you crack on because he scored a goal 8 years ago. He should be gone.

[Stairway 2 7]

As much as I don't think Mackay has done well, I find that hard to believe. He's been in the role a few months and I'm not sure a "look round" would lead someone to believe he should be gone. It's not as if he was out on the pitch and you could assess his ability in such a short space of time.

The players I can possibly believe but doesn't make sense that someone could come to that conclusion from a walk round with a guy who's role is office based.

They didn't want Gray or Mackay to get the job it caused a rift at the time, the audit confirmed the problem. I got told this by a coach but who knows

[Since90+2]

They didn't want Gray or Mackay to get the job it caused a rift at the time, the audit confirmed the problem. I got told this by a coach but who knows

Absolutely no chance a coach would be told that the Black Knights would want rid of the Sporting Director. Makes no sense at all.

[bingo70]

We needed an extra body in the middle of the park all match. I said at HT I'd have gone 433 with Boyle and Triantis coming off

No major issues with the subs today (one scored) but I do have a major problem with nobody on the park pushing us up the park. No leadership. Scary

All the chat seems to be about what subs would have made us less *****. There’s so much more to management than picking a starting 11 and making the right subs to see out a game.

I want a positive Hibs team that plays on the front foot and has got a plan to try and win games.

Gray is still managing us like a caretaker manager who’s only got a week or two with the team and wants us to work as hard as the opposition.

[Stairway 2 7]

Absolutely no chance a coach would be told that the Black Knights would want rid of the Sporting Director. Makes no sense at all.

I trust him, I wouldn't fancy calling him a liar either, although he really likes Gray

[The Modfather]

For those that are still backing Gray or want to give him more time, what are you seeing that gives you hope or things that can be built on? Or do you feel it’s not great but it’s still not long enough to give any manager a fair crack of the whip? Genuine questions.

For me, I worried on appointment whether Gray saw the mistakes of previous managers but couldn’t impact what needed to change. Or whether Gray was also culpable. I’ve not seen anything to suggest we’re rectifying previous failings. Other than a spell against Dundee Utd, out of necessity when we lost both RB’s, we are Montgomery like wedded to one formation (4231) and shoehorn players in to the set formation - Cadden at right wing, NMW at left wing today etc.

Gray spoke about adapting to the opposition. So far, as above, we are wedded to 4231 come rain or shine. We also played the same hard working team at Ibrox and expected them to then change mindset and be on the front foot and win the game v Motherwell the next week with Hoilett & Myko the only attacking players to start.

Gray gave Newell a new deal and captaincy. Tried to persist and make Campbell work as a starter. He’s also tried to make a fist of Cadden as a winger. Miller also looks to be a mainstay, though a bit of sympathy as the options at RB are poor.

We look like a Craig Levein team. Physical, grafters, hoofball and set pieces being our main attacking threat. Which looks to be by design from what a Gray team wants to be.

Gray also seems to set us up not to lose games. When we do go ahead his only game management appears to be drop back to the edge of the box and try and play attack v defence, to disastrous effect every time we have tried it.

[MWHIBBIES]

I’m absolutely gutted we didn’t hang on there as I was looking forward to doling out a good few old-fashioned post derby GIRFUYs.

Only this time they’d have been aimed mainly at our own fans.

More than anything David Gray needs a David Gray - someone who can drive a team on and stretch the neck muscles further when it’s needed most.

Well, he needs a ******* goalie who can do the basics too but that really goes without saying.

I remain convinced that Gray is not the problem.

Why didn't he sign those things?

Gray isn't the problem. Thats our owners. But gray isn't looking the he's the solution either.

[HFC93]

I respect the different takes for and against binning Gray, but I just can't be bothered with sacking another manager.

[hibee-boys]

Seen more than enough to know that SDG and his coaching team are not the answer. Joint bottom of the league with, just about, a full round of fixtures. Nowhere near the worst squad in the league. Understood bringing on Myko today but ending with an XI including JDH and NMW was an indefensible approach. Had enough of his defensive bullsxxxx subs when in positive positions. Sooner we get rid the better.

[B.H.F.C]

For those that are still backing Gray or want to give him more time, what are you seeing that gives you hope or things that can be built on? Or do you feel it’s not great but it’s still not long enough to give any manager a fair crack of the whip? Genuine questions.

For me, I worried on appointment whether Gray saw the mistakes of previous managers but couldn’t impact what needed to change. Or whether Gray was also culpable. I’ve not seen anything to suggest we’re rectifying previous failings. Other than a spell against Dundee Utd, out of necessity when we lost both RB’s, we are Montgomery like wedded to one formation (4231) and shoehorn players in to the set formation - Cadden at right wing, NMW at left wing today etc.

Gray spoke about adapting to the opposition. So far, as above, we are wedded to 4231 come rain or shine. We also played the same hard working team at Ibrox and expected them to then change mindset and be on the front foot and win the game v Motherwell the next week with Hoilett & Myko the only attacking players to start.

Gray gave Newell a new deal and captaincy. Tried to persist and make Campbell work as a starter. He’s also tried to make a fist of Cadden as a winger. Miller also looks to be a mainstay, though a bit of sympathy as the options at RB are poor.

We look like a Craig Levein team. Physical, grafters, hoofball and set pieces being our main attacking threat. Which looks to be by design from what a Gray team wants to be.

Gray also seems to set us up not to lose games. When we do go ahead his only game management appears to be drop back to the edge of the box and try and play attack v defence, to disastrous effect every time we have tried it.

Pretty good summary there.

He has made a lot of mistakes and it’s not particularly surprising given he’s never done the job before. The backroom team he put together was pretty underwhelming as well, I think mistakes were made right away with that. Particularly in Eddie May.

I just don’t see how we regularly win games. If we keep putting ourselves in winning positions then we need to hold on at some point but there is nothing about the way we play which makes me think we can do week in, week out.

If he wasn’t who he is he’d be getting chased by now. Couldn’t really have made a worse start. It’s getting towards the point where it goes beyond just being a start though.

[SHODAN]

I respect the different takes for and against binning Gray, but I just can't be bothered with sacking another manager.

This is where I'm at.

I honestly could not care if Gray is sacked or not. It literally has had no impact since maybe the appointment of Ross, and we all know MacKay will get it anyway.

[Heisenberg]

This is where I'm at.

I honestly could not care if Gray is sacked or not. It literally has had no impact since maybe the appointment of Ross, and we all know MacKay will get it anyway.

No chance MM is our next manager.

[SHODAN]

No chance MM is our next manager.

He'll be the long-term interim coach at the absolute least. Our board will not want another protracted search.

[Heisenberg]

He'll be the long-term interim coach at the absolute least. Our board will not want another protracted search.

I just don’t see it happening at all. We’ll swiftly get in a Black Knights recommendation next imo

[Helensburghhibs]

Craig samson doesn't help. He's such an unlikeable person on the sideline., micro manages every situation. His track. Record is rubbish with rumours that back it up. I'd love to know his credentials for such a big gig as assistant manager. He wasn't even a good keeper and seems to be proven in producing rubbish keepers, never mind letting him interfere with outfield players.

[lyonhibs]

This is where I'm at.

I honestly could not care if Gray is sacked or not. It literally has had no impact since maybe the appointment of Ross, and we all know MacKay will get it anyway.

Exactly. We'll be sitting here in April saying the exact same if we sack Gray tomorrow. At some point the Golden Quadrant have to stick by one of their decisions instead of twisting and praying.

[Heisenberg]

Craig samson doesn't help. He's such an unlikeable person on the sideline., micro manages every situation. His track. Record is rubbish with rumours that back it up. I'd love to know his credentials for such a big gig as assistant manager. He wasn't even a good keeper and seems to be proven in producing rubbish keepers, never mind letting him interfere with outfield players.

The role he’s been given winds me up no end. Hes literally been given an assistant coach role because he’s a good laugh around the place. Aberdeen fans pinned the blame on their goalie Roos turning to **** on Samson.

[GreenCastle]

Craig samson doesn't help. He's such an unlikeable person on the sideline., micro manages every situation. His track. Record is rubbish with rumours that back it up. I'd love to know his credentials for such a big gig as assistant manager. He wasn't even a good keeper and seems to be proven in producing rubbish keepers, never mind letting him interfere with outfield players.

Said for a long time it must piss Gray off with all his instructions - feels like he’s being undermined.

Gray should be the main guy and others sitting down and being quiet 1 showing encouragement.

His coaching team aren’t doing him any favours.

[Callum_62]

The role he’s been given winds me up no end. Hes literally been given an assistant coach role because he’s a good laugh around the place. Aberdeen fans pinned the blame on their goalie Roos turning to **** on Samson. Kelle Roos that's now playing in Serie C?

Surely Craig Samson didn't cause that?

He's a David Gray pick - he rates him highly obviously

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[Heisenberg]

Kelle Roos that's now playing in Serie C?

Surely Craig Samson didn't cause that?

He's a David Gray pick - he rates him highly obviously

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Just going off what I remember their fans saying about him. All utterly despised him and delighted when he left. Not sure David Gray has picked wisely in this case or in the case of his two other assistants.

Quick glance at the comments on here tell you he wasn’t popular

https://x.com/wilkie7/status/1850561932714987736?s=46&t=bdJsB3RQwSUdEBTbKsgiuQ

[LustForLeith]

All the chat seems to be about what subs would have made us less *****. There’s so much more to management than picking a starting 11 and making the right subs to see out a game.

I want a positive Hibs team that plays on the front foot and has got a plan to try and win games.

Gray is still managing us like a caretaker manager who’s only got a week or two with the team and wants us to work as hard as the opposition.

Best description of him so far

I feel the performances this season carry on form the end of last season when it felt like there wasn’t a lot to play for

[ddoc]

You can learn a lot from a bad manager as much as you can from the good. I had hoped DG having seen 4 managers go through the revolving door would have picked up enough of the not what to do, but it looks like that is not the case.
He seems to be making the same mistakes with trying to defend a lead, when blind Pew can see we are incapable of doing this, and some of his substitution I find baffling, but which is probably down to what we have available on the bench as much as his poor changes.
I keep on telling myself that we are good enough to avoid ending up in the relegation dog-fight, but am I kidding myself, and I struggle to see how we are going to advance up the table if it is going to take a minimum of a 2 goal lead to secure the points.
I am certainly conflicted, I feel we are at the point already where every game is a 'must not lose' but at the same time you can see how a run of decent results will quickly get us out of trouble.
And ditching yet another manager so early into his tenure fills me with dread as I think that will just lead to MM getting the role to the end of the season and I am not confident that this will have the desired result.
I feel I am just at a bit of a loss with Hibs just now. Desperately wanting DG to succeed but not able to visualize how that is going to come about.

[Mutu]

Playing garbage football, no real clear strategy, players have zero confidence on the ball, playing Youan (should be nowhere near starting 11).

The more points we continue to lose, the greater the argument getting rid of Gray is. Will be surprised if he makes it to December - massively out of his depth. Club is a joke for putting him in that position.

[Unseen work]

12th in the league
1 win in 9
5 defeats

Absolutely horrendous.

The players should have to read that every day they go in to training

The funny thing is half them will probably think they’re too good for Hibs or we’re a stepping stone for them.

[eastmainsmsh]

Triantis a centre half playing in midfield says it all really David Gray has been thrown to the wolves by Mackay and co here want Gray to do well but those running club and making decisions simply haven’t got a clue unfortunately

[Coco Bryce]

Triantis a centre half playing in midfield says it all really David Gray has been thrown to the wolves by Mackay and co here want Gray to do well but those running club and making decisions simply haven’t got a clue unfortunately

David Gray pulled out all the stops to get Triantis for his 'midfield'

[TrinityHFC]

David Gray pulled out all the stops to get Triantis for his 'midfield'

Quite right too. Him and Kwon in there are the least of the problems.

[Allant1981]

Triantis a centre half playing in midfield says it all really David Gray has been thrown to the wolves by Mackay and co here want Gray to do well but those running club and making decisions simply haven’t got a clue unfortunately

Doesn't really say anything, triantis can clearly play centre mid and has been playing well,just needs to stop getting booked all the time

[Coco Bryce]

Quite right too. Him and Kwon in there are the least of the problems.

I know. I was replying to the comment that it was a problem rather than an advantage.

And stating that it wasn't what Gray wanted?

[McD]

12th in the league
1 win in 9
5 defeats

Absolutely horrendous.

The players should have to read that every day they go in to training

The funny thing is half them will probably think they’re too good for Hibs or we’re a stepping stone for them.


Boyd made a comment along the lines of us having too many players who have seen off managers and aren’t doing anything like what they should be, but will shrug and say ‘I’ll be alright, another manager will be in in a couple of months’.

[Callum_62]

I know. I was replying to the comment that it was a problem rather than an advantage.

And stating that it wasn't what Gray wanted?It was but some folk will never see anything he does as wrong unfortunately

Not that I think signing Triantis is one of his errors though

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[matty_f]

I'm still for giving Gray time. Pre-match, all we were seeing on social media and to a large extent on here as well, was about how many Hearts were going to take off us and how bad a defeat was going to be for Gray/us.

In the end, from a manager's point of view he was unlucky not to win the game. He's set us up to create enough chances to win the game, and we created more than Hearts. The goal we concede is awful, but it's one of the few times in the match where we didn't defend the box very well. The late goal obviously leaves us all feeling gutted and frustrated, but given the predictions, he's done better than a whole load of Hibs fans were giving him credit for.

There's no doubting we're not a good side, we're firmly at the bottom of the league and need results asap - we clearly can't carry on going week to week without a win, something will have to give eventually, but hopefully the thing that gives is the poor results and we start climbing the table.

[TrinityHFC]

Boyd made a comment along the lines of us having too many players who have seen off managers and aren’t doing anything like what they should be, but will shrug and say ‘I’ll be alright, another manager will be in in a couple of months’.

Easy to say but it isn’t really the same set of players.

[McD]

Easy to say but it isn’t really the same set of players.



There’s been ins and outs for sure, but if I’ve counted right, there’s 9 in the squad who will be seeing off (at least) their third manager if Gray goes.


5 of them have been regulars this season.

[AgentDaleCooper]

There’s been ins and outs for sure, but if I’ve counted right, there’s 9 in the squad who will be seeing off (at least) their third manager if Gray goes.


5 of them have been regulars this season.

imagine, though, if we'd been going through players at the rate we've been going through managers. wouldn't exactly have helped.

[McD]

imagine, though, if we'd been going through players at the rate we've been going through managers. wouldn't exactly have helped.


Oh I agree, we’ve been moving on managers very quickly, it’s a bit chicken and egg - appointment crap manager, sack him to seek improvement, but then appoint another crap manager, and the cycle goes on.


I do think there’s players who are not doing all they could (a number of them have been called out this season on here), and I think we have a manager who is out of his depth, isn’t getting the right support from his staff, the club or the squad as a whole.

[Lago]

Said for a long time it must piss Gray off with all his instructions - feels like he’s being undermined.

Gray should be the main guy and others sitting down and being quiet 1 showing encouragement.

His coaching team aren’t doing him any favours.
He picked them.

[CL0762]

He'll be the long-term interim coach at the absolute least. Our board will not want another protracted search.

He will not and if he is, he’s a liar.

I asked him to his face, if it didn’t work out with Gray would he ever, even in a caretaker position take the Hibs job and it was an emphatic no. He’s done with management.

[JimBHibees]

Craig samson doesn't help. He's such an unlikeable person on the sideline., micro manages every situation. His track. Record is rubbish with rumours that back it up. I'd love to know his credentials for such a big gig as assistant manager. He wasn't even a good keeper and seems to be proven in producing rubbish keepers, never mind letting him interfere with outfield players.

Sounds a bit personal. He is a coach on the sidelines he won't be having any more influence than the head coach. Up to DG to pick who he wants

[JimBHibees]

He will not and if he is, he’s a liar.

I asked him to his face, if it didn’t work out with Gray would he ever, even in a caretaker position take the Hibs job and it was an emphatic no. He’s done with management.

Things can change though

[He's here!]

I'm still for giving Gray time. Pre-match, all we were seeing on social media and to a large extent on here as well, was about how many Hearts were going to take off us and how bad a defeat was going to be for Gray/us.

In the end, from a manager's point of view he was unlucky not to win the game. He's set us up to create enough chances to win the game, and we created more than Hearts. The goal we concede is awful, but it's one of the few times in the match where we didn't defend the box very well. The late goal obviously leaves us all feeling gutted and frustrated, but given the predictions, he's done better than a whole load of Hibs fans were giving him credit for.

There's no doubting we're not a good side, we're firmly at the bottom of the league and need results asap - we clearly can't carry on going week to week without a win, something will have to give eventually, but hopefully the thing that gives is the poor results and we start climbing the table.

Fair post.

[Septimus]

It seems like a long time since David Gray was in the right place to give us that great moment at Hampden. Now the Hibs net seems consumed by a feeding frenzy aimed at an undoubted Hibs hero. Basically he has been dropped in at the deep end with a team which is the result of mismanagement which has been going on for years. I fully expect that we will avoid relegation this year and I, for one, want to give David Gray an opportunity to come good. Flapping about with other so called successful managers avoids the real problem which is on the park. I would much rather spend the money on players to fill the positions in which we are clearly weak. I do not believe that we can buy success by continually chopping and changing managers thus implying that they alone carry the can.

[Unseen work]

The main reasons for appointing Gray;

He’s ’Hibs’ knows what it means etc
He knows the players
He knows the league
He’ll make us harder to beat
He won’t be naive like Montgomery was

Etc etc

So far it’s proving to be the opposite of that

[Springbank]

I'm willing David Gray to succeed (deep down we all want that, I know)

Wednesday is massive

Win, and we are off the bottom (as we will leapfrog either hearts or killie who play each other)

With the chance to take another 3 points vs Utd on sunday

And having been at Tannadice last week, we were the better team - 6 points this week has to be the target for SDG

Keep Hoillet on for the full 90 if you can - it's taking off our forward-looking players for sub-par "defensive" players that is killing us late on in games

[lucky]

Gray is out his depth and his “choices” of subs yesterday proved it. But from the way Samson and Craig behave and shout scream especially Samson it does not look like Gray is in charge. Samson tried to control everything all the time. The fact we keep losing should be enough for Gray to tell him to shut up and sit on his arse. If he is also the GK coach then that alone should be enough for him to be removed from the bench. Hibs should have won that game yesterday but subs did not help. MNW was played in the number 10 role and barely touched the ball. We had Levit and Rudi on the bench. I still think Gray will be gone by Christmas I just hope Hibs aren’t already doomed to relegation by then.

[easty]

The main reasons for appointing Gray;

He’s ’Hibs’ knows what it means etc
He knows the players
He knows the league
He’ll make us harder to beat
He won’t be naive like Montgomery was

Etc etc

So far it’s proving to be the opposite of that

:agree:

[HFC 0-7]

I'm still for giving Gray time. Pre-match, all we were seeing on social media and to a large extent on here as well, was about how many Hearts were going to take off us and how bad a defeat was going to be for Gray/us.

In the end, from a manager's point of view he was unlucky not to win the game. He's set us up to create enough chances to win the game, and we created more than Hearts. The goal we concede is awful, but it's one of the few times in the match where we didn't defend the box very well. The late goal obviously leaves us all feeling gutted and frustrated, but given the predictions, he's done better than a whole load of Hibs fans were giving him credit for.

There's no doubting we're not a good side, we're firmly at the bottom of the league and need results asap - we clearly can't carry on going week to week without a win, something will have to give eventually, but hopefully the thing that gives is the poor results and we start climbing the table.

Kind of agree with this but I would have expected us to have more chances than hearts. Playing in Europe should have meant they were not 100%. My big issue with Gray are the subs and doesn’t seem to be able to do anything to make us more solid, particularly in the final 15 mins. We score nothing and concede loads. A good manager can affect players mindsets and make them stronger.

[Sioux]

Craig samson doesn't help. He's such an unlikeable person on the sideline., micro manages every situation. His track. Record is rubbish with rumours that back it up. I'd love to know his credentials for such a big gig as assistant manager. He wasn't even a good keeper and seems to be proven in producing rubbish keepers, never mind letting him interfere with outfield players.

:faf::faf:

Facts would back up your theory, not rumours.

[Murphys Touch]

I'm willing David Gray to succeed (deep down we all want that, I know)

Wednesday is massive

Win, and we are off the bottom (as we will leapfrog either hearts or killie who play each other)

With the chance to take another 3 points vs Utd on sunday

And having been at Tannadice last week, we were the better team - 6 points this week has to be the target for SDG

Keep Hoillet on for the full 90 if you can - it's taking off our forward-looking players for sub-par "defensive" players that is killing us late on in games

Our full front 4 have been substituted 80% of the games this season

[Since452]

I wonder where we'd be right now if Jimmy Thelin was Hibs manager. Aberdeen have been about the same as us the last couple of seasons points wise. All of a sudden they're 19 points ahead of us after 9 games. Is that the difference between a real, good manager and a rookie? Can't just be a coincidence.

[McD]

It seems like a long time since David Gray was in the right place to give us that great moment at Hampden. Now the Hibs net seems consumed by a feeding frenzy aimed at an undoubted Hibs hero. Basically he has been dropped in at the deep end with a team which is the result of mismanagement which has been going on for years. I fully expect that we will avoid relegation this year and I, for one, want to give David Gray an opportunity to come good. Flapping about with other so called successful managers avoids the real problem which is on the park. I would much rather spend the money on players to fill the positions in which we are clearly weak. I do not believe that we can buy success by continually chopping and changing managers thus implying that they alone carry the can.



He hasn’t been dropped in the deep end. He applied for the job knowing the state of play with the club and the squad. He himself was a part of the mismanagement going on for years. He was a part of the recruitment of the 12 players brought in over the summer. It’s his tactics, his methods, his choice of starting 11s and his choice of subs during matches.


He’s not the only thing going wrong at the club, but he isn’t blameless either.

[we are hibs]

I wonder where we'd be right now if Jimmy Thelin was Hibs manager. Aberdeen have been about the same as us the last couple of seasons points wise. All of a sudden they're 19 points ahead of us after 9 games. Is that the difference between a real, good manager and a rookie? Can't just be a coincidence.We wouldn't be where Aberdeen are as we haven't got a good squad.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[basehibby]

Gray deserves some credit for yesterday. But for some less than decisive finishing/great goalkeeping from Gordon we would have won that game. Some mental analysis on the Bursik thread trying to blame our own keeper for the equaliser due to a perceived error several phases earlier - some people will clutch at any straw to justify their negativity.
There was little to criticise yesterday in truth and we were not far off claiming the win we all craved. Gray needs to take that focus and performance level up to Dingwall and win and hopefully get some head of steam going to push us up the table.

[LaMotta]

Gray deserves some credit for yesterday. But for some less than decisive finishing/great goalkeeping from Gordon we would have won that game. Some mental analysis on the Bursik thread trying to blame our own keeper for the equaliser due to a perceived error several phases earlier - some people will clutch at any straw to justify their negativity.
There was little to criticise yesterday in truth and we were not far off claiming the win we all craved. Gray needs to take that focus and performance level up to Dingwall and win and hopefully get some head of steam going to push us up the table.

Of course Bursik played his part in the equaliser. Along with several others.

[B.H.F.C]

We wouldn't be where Aberdeen are as we haven't got a good squad.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Look at some of the players he’s managed to get playing though, guys that looked absolutely hopeless previously.

3 of their back 4 at the weekend were played most of the time last season and were regularly pish. The only change in there is a guy they signed from Shelbourne.

Up front they sold their best player and he’s managed to get Gueye and Sockler, who again looked hopeless, contributing and scoring.

Biggest difference would be the keeper. What he’s done shows the value of a good manager though. He’s got a pretty clear idea and has improved multiple players quickly. We couldn’t be further away from that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Look at some of the players he’s managed to get playing though, guys that looked absolutely hopeless previously.

3 of their back 4 at the weekend were played most of the time last season and were regularly pish. The only change in there is a guy they signed from Shelbourne.

Up front they sold their best player and he’s managed to get Gueye and Sockler, who again looked hopeless, contributing and scoring.

Biggest difference would be the keeper. What he’s done shows the value of a good manager though. He’s got a pretty clear idea and has improved multiple players quickly. We couldn’t be further away from that.

:agree:

[Donegal Hibby]

I know the knives are out for Bursik though I find it astonishing that some are blaming him for their equaliser … truly mind boggling stuff IMO .

[#2 Double Tap]

I know the knives are out for Bursik though I find it astonishing that some are blaming him for their equaliser … truly mind boggling stuff IMO .

They are blaming him for the build up to the goal not the actual goal. He spills the ball that leads to the corner…….

[BoomtownHibees]

They are blaming him for the build up to the goal not the actual goal. He spills the ball that leads to the corner…….

That leads to a throw in which leads to 3 defenders not doing their job

[#2 Double Tap]

That leads to a throw in which leads to 3 defenders not doing their job

No arguments from me :)

[Jones28]

I know the knives are out for Bursik though I find it astonishing that some are blaming him for their equaliser … truly mind boggling stuff IMO .

If he does the complicated job of...ahem...picking the ball up instead of flapping it out for a corner, none of the subsequent events happen - the goal being the conclusion of a really ****ty passage of play.

The point is it was all preventable.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

The hoilett sub made sense. With the time left , take him off but shore up the defence and go to a back 5.

[Sioux]

The way I saw it yesterday is that O'Hora and Ekpiteta couldn't get the ball forward by passing it out. Playing 3 at the back gives them more of a chance to progress 10 yards further up and closer to midfielder/wide players including full backs. Iredale can play there.

A midfield 3 of Kwon, Newell and Triantis get possession from defenders who are not under the same pressure to simply get rid of it, invariable a long ball.

That way we're further up the park and more able to get the front players involved.

I don't doubt we were better when Myko came on and provided a focus and more physicality up front.

I think going with that gives Gray a more structured approach to the game, and need he needs to work a system to get forwards taking up the right positions to receive the ball, again further up the park.

Ekpi(Rocky) O’Hora Iredale

Hoilett Triantis Newell Kwon Obita

Myko Gayle

That formation could easily switch to 4 4 2 if need be, but the same issue of getting the ball forward would still apply.

For me, Gray played too many forward thinking players, who apart from Hoilett, never got into the game. Boyle and Youan were virtually anonymous. Gray therefore left himself with no ability to freshen up the front 4, resulting in his defensive midfielders as subs, which don't have a positive impact on the game.

Sitting high in the FF, it was painful to watch the ball going sideways to fullbacks, back to centre backs and keeper, rinse and repeat. Goalkeeper taking an age to play into Triantis or Kwon who showed for the ball, but the delay meant the pass wasn't on. Ball launched long.

Gray doesn't seem to be able to set the team up with any suggestion of fluency, and it's all very stale. Unfortunately not a good look, and just not good enough.

[Donegal Hibby]

They are blaming him for the build up to the goal not the actual goal. He spills the ball that leads to the corner…….

But the corners dealt with though and the ball then goes out for a throw which we have to defend better …

Don’t forget considering the height we have now have in defence it’s Forrest at 5.8 , 5.9 that flicks it on basically unchallenged.. more poor defending than the keeper’s fault IMO .

[MWHIBBIES]

I know the knives are out for Bursik though I find it astonishing that some are blaming him for their equaliser … truly mind boggling stuff IMO .
It's really not. He spilled 2 balls in the 30 seconds before it. If he holds either, they don't score that goal. He invites pressure.

[flash]

It's really not. He spilled 2 balls in the 30 seconds before it. If he holds either, they don't score that goal. He invites pressure.

Was he remotely to blame for anything that happened from the long throw onwards?

[B.H.F.C]

The hoilett sub made sense. With the time left , take him off but shore up the defence and go to a back 5.

We didn’t go to a back 5 though. We brought a player on who hasn’t played for 14 months. Moved a central midfielder to the left wing. Moved Kwon further forward. And took off our most experienced, composed player.

I don’t think anything about the sub made sense.

[Hiber-nation]

Still can't get my head around that JDH substitution. Made absolutely no sense whatsoever and I've gone from being a bit of a cheerleader for SDG to being seriously worried.

[Stokesy's on fire]

I wonder where we'd be right now if Jimmy Thelin was Hibs manager. Aberdeen have been about the same as us the last couple of seasons points wise. All of a sudden they're 19 points ahead of us after 9 games. Is that the difference between a real, good manager and a rookie? Can't just be a coincidence.

Yup the same poor team they had last season is now top. A good manager makes a big difference. Thelin will be away before you know it leading a small club like Aberdeen to first place will be attracting some interest from down south.

[The Modfather]

Was he remotely to blame for anything that happened from the long throw onwards?

He wasn’t, but a corner is a lottery, as is a long throw. A competent keeper catches a routine ball trickling through, taking the sting out of the game. As it was from conceding the corner to the goal at no point did we ever get control of the ball or manage to clear our lines assertively. It’s an unforced error that leads indirectly to us conceding.

[Septimus]

But the corners dealt with though and the ball then goes out for a throw which we have to defend better …

Don’t forget considering the height we have now have in defence it’s Forrest at 5.8 , 5.9 that flicks it on basically unchallenged.. more poor defending than the keeper’s fault IMO .

I tend to agree that he was not to blame for yesterday’s goal but surely we are not suggesting that he is a competent goalkeeper. I watched yesterday’s match with a couple of friends one of whom remarked that there was probably not a single Hibs supporter in the stadium who was confident that we would maintain our lead.

[LaMotta]

I know the knives are out for Bursik though I find it astonishing that some are blaming him for their equaliser … truly mind boggling stuff IMO .

Nobody is blaming him solely for the equaliser! What people are correctly stating is that his error led to a situation that enabled Hearts to score. The fact other Hibs players made subsequent errors doesn't change that.

How are some people not just accepting this relatively simple point?!

[flash]

He wasn’t, but a corner is a lottery, as is a long throw. A competent keeper catches a routine ball trickling through, taking the sting out of the game. As it was from conceding the corner to the goal at no point did we ever get control of the ball or manage to clear our lines assertively. It’s an unforced error that leads indirectly to us conceding.

I don't think he is up to the job in general but he is well down the list of people to blame for that goal.

[Donegal Hibby]

I tend to agree that he was not to blame for yesterday’s goal but surely we are not suggesting that he is a competent goalkeeper. I watched yesterday’s match with a couple of friends one of whom remarked that there was probably not a single Hibs supporter in the stadium who was confident that we would maintain our lead.

I certainly wasn’t , felt we needed a second as they were always likely to get one .

The one mistake he did make was the one he came for and didn’t get . Thought there was a few he came for and got too and he dealt with Shankland’s shot adequately …

I’m not saying he was brilliant , I just didn’t think he done a hell of a lot wrong to warrant the criticism he’s now receiving.

One thing I will say which isn’t Bursik’s fault is as I’ve said many times on here is we let teams get to many crosses in our box and yesterday that throw in highlighted our inability to defend and give our keeper proper protection…

It’s no wonder he is coming out for crosses when you see how easy it was for Forrest to get that flick on , Gray was fuming about it in mentioning it ! .

[overdrive]

The additional trouble with the "try and see it out" subs is that when it doesn't work and we lose our lead or go behind, we have taken off most of our attack minded players so even if there is some time left to try and rescue the game - as was the case yesterday with the added time - we then struggle to do so because we don't have the players on the pitch to do that.

[B.H.F.C]

The additional trouble with the "try and see it out" subs is that when it doesn't work and we lose our lead or go behind, we have taken off most of our attack minded players so even if there is some time left to try and rescue the game - as was the case yesterday with the added time - we then struggle to do so because we don't have the players on the pitch to do that.

Said this yesterday. With injury time there was 10 minutes left to play but we were hardly able to get up the park. We had one chance from a long throw but were hanging on otherwise. We could also have made another change at that point although accept there were fairly limited options.

[Smartie]

I wonder where we'd be right now if Jimmy Thelin was Hibs manager. Aberdeen have been about the same as us the last couple of seasons points wise. All of a sudden they're 19 points ahead of us after 9 games. Is that the difference between a real, good manager and a rookie? Can't just be a coincidence.

He'd be 2 games from the sack and the fanbase would be apoplectic that after all this time, we've still got a manager who plays Josh Campbell.

[Smartie]

I know the knives are out for Bursik though I find it astonishing that some are blaming him for their equaliser … truly mind boggling stuff IMO .

The fumble for the corner was an absolute howler and I was properly wincing for him, desperate for the corner to come to nothing as I knew he'd be absolutely slaughtered if a goal came from it. That wee fumble had a similar feeling to one Oli Gottskalksson made years ago that led to a goal and you could just sense the entire Hibs support going "right, that's quite enough of that".

I'd argue he actually did ok at the corner to divert the corner away and from that point on he's pretty much off the hook for the impact of that mistake.

The goal was caused by us failing to win 3 (!!!!) headers in our own box, which is absolutely unforgivable imo.

If we're wanting heads on sticks, Lewis Miller is the one who should be looking at the goals and points cost over the past couple of weeks and very much looking over his shoulder.

[hibeerealist]

But the corners dealt with though and the ball then goes out for a throw which we have to defend better …

Don’t forget considering the height we have now have in defence it’s Forrest at 5.8 , 5.9 that flicks it on basically unchallenged.. more poor defending than the keeper’s fault IMO .


The keeper picks up the ball (no save required) when he should have rather than spill it out for a corner then the sequence of events changes - goalkeeper screw up (another one)

[Aaron]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

[Cooshed Kid]

The fumble for the corner was an absolute howler and I was properly wincing for him, desperate for the corner to come to nothing as I knew he'd be absolutely slaughtered if a goal came from it. That wee fumble had a similar feeling to one Oli Gottskalksson made years ago that led to a goal and you could just sense the entire Hibs support going "right, that's quite enough of that".

I'd argue he actually did ok at the corner to divert the corner away and from that point on he's pretty much off the hook for the impact of that mistake.

The goal was caused by us failing to win 3 (!!!!) headers in our own box, which is absolutely unforgivable imo.

If we're wanting heads on sticks, Lewis Miller is the one who should be looking at the goals and points cost over the past couple of weeks and very much looking over his shoulder.

Heads on sticks! Heads on sticks!

[Since452]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

I personally don't think he will but he'd lose a lot of his already wavering support from the fans. He needs to find a way to win games sharpish.

[JohnM1875]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

I don't think he will nah, he’ll get til New Year at least. But there's a growing argument that he maybe should be.

[Coco Bryce]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

No. He's still got another 3 windows.

[Wilson]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

I'd hope not. But I'd like to think we'll beat Ross County in any case 😀

[Heisenberg]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

I think he’s really got to win two out of the next three. Go into the break still bottom and I think he’d go.

[The_Exile]

Don't see the point in sacking him, someone else will just come in and have to work under the same restraints, same squad until January where we won't really spend any money, we might get a loan from somewhere, which will make **** all difference, and we'll continue bumbling along picking up the odd draw and win if we're lucky, trying to scrape into 10th by the end of the season. He should never have been given the job in the first place and I just knew we'd end up in another situation where a loved ex-player comes in as manager and it doesn't work, and they end up getting pelters (a la Mixu, Franck etc). The problems on the pitch stem from the way the club is run. Can't see it changing any time soon.

[tonyrougier123]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

Gray has shown tactical naivety in an increasing number of games, but the individual errors are costing him most, it’s a perfect storm for sacking him.

We signed the wrong goalie to be no.1 that’s crucial and the defence is still error prone and unfixed.

The problems are mounting, if it’s a question of stick or twist I’d stick for the season and try and ride this out. But it’s getting harder by the game to suggest that.

[B.H.F.C]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

I think there is a good chance he’d be away if we lose on Wednesday.

I thought he’d be ok, regardless, after the derby (unless we got hammered which I never thought we would).

But when you’re in our position, if you’re then losing to the likes of Ross County, you’re really asking where you pick up a win without anything changing.

[Donegal Hibby]

The fumble for the corner was an absolute howler and I was properly wincing for him, desperate for the corner to come to nothing as I knew he'd be absolutely slaughtered if a goal came from it. That wee fumble had a similar feeling to one Oli Gottskalksson made years ago that led to a goal and you could just sense the entire Hibs support going "right, that's quite enough of that".

I'd argue he actually did ok at the corner to divert the corner away and from that point on he's pretty much off the hook for the impact of that mistake.

The goal was caused by us failing to win 3 (!!!!) headers in our own box, which is absolutely unforgivable imo.

If we're wanting heads on sticks, Lewis Miller is the one who should be looking at the goals and points cost over the past couple of weeks and very much looking over his shoulder.

I wasn’t sure as to the one that lead to the corner as I only seen it once though that was defended alright what happened after that in our players should have been alert , better prepared .

We basically switched off again and allow Forrest to make a wee run unmarked and flick the ball unchallenged.

It’s just poor defending again .. why is it happening time and time again … i :dunno:

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Do you think Gray will be sacked should we loose to Ross County?

Absolutely 💯 per cent, we just cannot continue with this

[K-Zazu]

I wasn’t sure as to the one that lead to the corner as I only seen it once though that was defended alright what happened after that in our players should have been alert , better prepared .

We basically switched off again and allow Forrest to make a wee run unmarked and flick the ball unchallenged.

It’s just poor defending again .. why is it happening time and time again … i :dunno:

Why is it happening time and time again? Bad coaching probably.

[Coco Bryce]

Why is it happening time and time again? Bad coaching probably.

Changing the tactics to defend a lead, Gray just invites far too much pressure on our defence which we cant handle.

[Onion]

Don't see the point in sacking him, someone else will just come in and have to work under the same restraints, same squad until January where we won't really spend any money, we might get a loan from somewhere, which will make **** all difference, and we'll continue bumbling along picking up the odd draw and win if we're lucky, trying to scrape into 10th by the end of the season. He should never have been given the job in the first place and I just knew we'd end up in another situation where a loved ex-player comes in as manager and it doesn't work, and they end up getting pelters (a la Mixu, Franck etc). The problems on the pitch stem from the way the club is run. Can't see it changing any time soon.

Is there's anyone left, other than Owner and Board members, who think anything other than this ?

I'm hoping Hibs fans do not judge SDG too harshly when his tenure as manager ends, as it likely will within next few weeks. The clowns in charge haven't a clue what they are doing (proven time and time again) and Hibs Legend SDG is just the latest victim of their ineptitude.

[JimBHibees]

Is there's anyone left, other than Owner and Board members, who think anything other than this ?

I'm hoping Hibs fans do not judge SDG too harshly when his tenure as manager ends, as it likely will within next few weeks. The clowns in charge haven't a clue what they are doing (proven time and time again) and Hibs Legend SDG is just the latest victim of their ineptitude.

Maybe we should continue to support him. Think he has a decent chance to turn this round

[B.H.F.C]

Is there's anyone left, other than Owner and Board members, who think anything other than this ?

I'm hoping Hibs fans do not judge SDG too harshly when his tenure as manager ends, as it likely will within next few weeks. The clowns in charge haven't a clue what they are doing (proven time and time again) and Hibs Legend SDG is just the latest victim of their ineptitude.

I don’t think he will be on the basis that the majority never thought he should have the job in the first place.

When it became obvious he was going to get it I think we all tried to put a positive spin on it and were desperate for him to do well. I think everybody is still desperate for him to turn it round. We’ll pick a win up here and there but it’s just so difficult to see how we string any. Inner of results together.

[hibsmad]

If the Black Knights hadn’t invested then I think Gray would be given a decent amount of time.

However they have and Gray will need to pick up a few wins soon, or I think he’ll be out and we’ll be letting Foley decide who replaces him.

[Spike Mandela]

If Hearts nicked a late winner he would have been sacked today imo.

He has a reprieve, for now. He needs wns, no ifs, buts or maybes.

He needs time, I agree, but this board have shown us in the past who they are and how they will react.

Every failure to win from here on in, until he gets a few wins in a row, are potential sacking events.

[B.H.F.C]

If Hearts nicked a late winner he would have been sacked today imo.

He has a reprieve, for now. He needs wns, no ifs, buts or maybes.

He needs time, I agree, but this board have shown us in the past who they are and how they will react.

Every failure to win from here on in, until he gets a few wins in a row, are potential sacking events.

It’s the only way for him to get time now. It can’t just be given, it has to be earned, and it hasn’t been so far.

Really hoping we can string a couple of wins together.

[blackpoolhibs]

Went to golf this morning, and because i'm a Hibs fan most of my mates look out for our scores now.

With the game on tv yesterday, it gave them a chance to watch it.

First two comments to me this morning were, how sheite are Hibs, and where did you get that keeper?

From two lads who have no afinity to Hibs.

[Victor]

Went to golf this morning, and because i'm a Hibs fan most of my mates look out for our scores now.

With the game on tv yesterday, it gave them a chance to watch it.

First two comments to me this morning were, how sheite are Hibs, and where did you get that keeper?

From two lads who have no afinity to Hibs.

If they thought Hibs were bad, what did they make of Hearts? They must be worse if they cannot beat such a rubbish team.


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[Donegal Hibby]

Changing the tactics to defend a lead, Gray just invites far too much pressure on our defence which we cant handle.

A lot of teams change tactics to either defend a lead or try and get back into a game .

I thought we pressed them well for the majority of the game in fairness and it was only in the last ten minutes we stopped doing that …

You wll probably say I’m being a wind up merchant again with my opinion though 😧

[blackpoolhibs]

If they thought Hibs were bad, what did they make of Hearts? They must be worse if they cannot beat such a rubbish team.


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They know i'm a Hibs fan, they never commented on that lot.

Would it have made it any better if they had? :confused:

[bingo70]

They know i'm a Hibs fan, they never commented on that lot.

Would it have made it any better if they had? :confused:

It’s amazing how defensive some people get when you say things like that 😂

I think it is relevant when people with no affinity or connection to the club give an honest opinion on how garbage we are. There’s people on this forum who think Hibs played well yesterday, part of me admires the determination to remain positive but I also can’t believe anybody really genuinely believes that.

When you hear of people like your mates saying that, it just confirms that I’m not going mad or being miserable for miserables sake.

[MWHIBBIES]

Was he remotely to blame for anything that happened from the long throw onwards?

Well no, but you think that's how football actually works? You think only that instance of play matters?

Say your fullback is having a mare. Let's 50 crosses in. Goalie catches 49. Drops the 50th and they score. No one in their right mind is only blaming the goalie. It's a consistent inviting of pressure by a bad goalie, that leads to the opposition getting 2nd and 3rd bites at attacks. That, quite naturally, increases their chances of scoring. It's honestly insane what a difference a good keeper makes when under the cosh. Guys like Allison at Liverpool. Claim a cross, hold it, calm things down. Our guy is a bag of nerves.

[blackpoolhibs]

It’s amazing how defensive some people get when you say things like that 😂

I think it is relevant when people with no affinity or connection to the club give an honest opinion on how garbage we are. There’s people on this forum who think Hibs played well yesterday, part of me admires the determination to remain positive but I also can’t believe anybody really genuinely believes that.

When you hear of people like your mates saying that, it just confirms that I’m not going mad or being miserable for miserables sake.
:agree:

[JohnM1875]

Gray ‘both teams probably played the game with a fear not to lose… probably due to the magnitude of the game’ that's pissed me off. Happy to just not lose.

Its a derby at home against a pants Hearts team.

Wish I didn't watch that pre-match interview. Annoyed me.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Gray ‘both teams probably played the game with a view not to lose… probably due to the magnitude of the game’ that's pissed me off. Happy to just not lose.

Its a derby at home against a pants Hearts team.

Wish I didn't watch that pre-match interview. Annoyed me.

What a mess if that’s what he said. He’s the manager. If we played not to lose then that’s because you told them to, or at least your tactics set us up to do that.

[B.H.F.C]

What a mess if that’s what he said. He’s the manager. If we played not to lose then that’s because you told them to, or at least your tactics set us up to do that.

“I thought both teams probably played the game with a fear not to lose because it was a bit scrappy. There was a lack of quality at times within the game from both sides and that's probably just to do with the magnitude of the game at times and situations”

Wonder where our players get that fear from.

[Smartie]

Went to golf this morning, and because i'm a Hibs fan most of my mates look out for our scores now.

With the game on tv yesterday, it gave them a chance to watch it.

First two comments to me this morning were, how sheite are Hibs, and where did you get that keeper?

From two lads who have no afinity to Hibs.

I'm in a WhatsApp group with a few Dundee United and Celtic fans.. and this exactly echoes what they've been saying to me.

Interesting from the United fans - one of their recent relegations was down to trouble with their goalkeepers, who were all atrocious. We've got a few of the unfortunate hallmarks of a side who need to be thinking about relegation.

Bursik's biggest clangers have been in our games with Celtic and United so my mates who support them are now looking our for further Bursik related comedy to tease me with and he's not exactly holding back from giving them ammunition.

They also all said yesterday's game was a pish spectacle between a couple of awful teams.

I wish I could respond with something other than "it's an Edinburgh derby - what do you expect" and "re the keeper - agreed".

[K-Zazu]

Gray ‘both teams probably played the game with a fear not to lose… probably due to the magnitude of the game’ that's pissed me off. Happy to just not lose.

Its a derby at home against a pants Hearts team.

Wish I didn't watch that pre-match interview. Annoyed me.

No wonder we have a brutal derby record. Hearts must love playing us.

[Ozyhibby]

Biggest problem for Gray is a that a major shareholder did not want him in the first place and his appointment stalled investment into the club.
Given those circumstances his appointment was a ridiculous decision.


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[Tambo]

Probably had enough good chances to come away with the 3 points yesterday, Gray can't do anything about that, don't think his subs were great again though.

Must be really frustrating for him to watch us concede the goals we do, will know he'll needs points now or his job should be at risk unfortunately.

Could do with a couple of wins and getting away from the bottom come January.

Don't think the board will be as trigger happer with this one, Foley will want better ifs he interested in seeing us grow.

[MWHIBBIES]

Biggest problem for Gray is a that a major shareholder did not want him in the first place and his appointment stalled investment into the club.
Given those circumstances his appointment was a ridiculous decision.


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If hed won 5/6 league games, that wouldn't matter. Biggest problem is we're **** and bottom.

[Real Emerald]

“I thought both teams probably played the game with a fear not to lose because it was a bit scrappy. There was a lack of quality at times within the game from both sides and that's probably just to do with the magnitude of the game at times and situations”

Wonder where our players get that fear from.

I also think the modern day slowing the game down, letting everyone get in position and playing it slowly and endlessly around the back doesn’t do the game any favours. Maybe getting back to blood and thunder football and trying to get the ball moving forward quickly before teams get set would be better. It’s so frustrating watching this 💩 these days, soul destroying football.

[B.H.F.C]

Biggest problem for Gray is a that a major shareholder did not want him in the first place and his appointment stalled investment into the club.
Given those circumstances his appointment was a ridiculous decision.


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Where do you get that his appointment stalled investment from?

They didn’t want him, there has never been anything to suggest it’s stalled any investment though.

[HoboHarry]

Where do you get that his appointment stalled investment from?

They didn’t want him, there has never been anything to suggest it’s stalled any investment though.
He didn't get it anywhere, he just made it up.

[jacomo]

I'm in a WhatsApp group with a few Dundee United and Celtic fans.. and this exactly echoes what they've been saying to me.

Interesting from the United fans - one of their recent relegations was down to trouble with their goalkeepers, who were all atrocious. We've got a few of the unfortunate hallmarks of a side who need to be thinking about relegation.

Bursik's biggest clangers have been in our games with Celtic and United so my mates who support them are now looking our for further Bursik related comedy to tease me with and he's not exactly holding back from giving them ammunition.

They also all said yesterday's game was a pish spectacle between a couple of awful teams.

I wish I could respond with something other than "it's an Edinburgh derby - what do you expect" and "re the keeper - agreed".


It’s a great shame because it wasn’t that long ago that the Edinburgh derby was a great advert for the Scottish game.

[jacomo]

Biggest problem for Gray is a that a major shareholder did not want him in the first place and his appointment stalled investment into the club.
Given those circumstances his appointment was a ridiculous decision.


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You need to back that up or withdraw it. Not aware that the black knights have withheld any funds because we appointed SDG.

[He's here!]

It’s a great shame because it wasn’t that long ago that the Edinburgh derby was a great advert for the Scottish game.

Only very occasionally. The vast majority of the time it's a pretty horrible fixture with little good football on show. It's the atmosphere which largely attracts the TV cameras. Yes you get some wonderfully memorable games when there are quality players capable of rising above things but I didn't think yesterday's game was significantly worse than many others I've seen down the years.

[andrew70]

https://open.substack.com/pub/andrewjeffrey/p/the-david-gray-conundrum?r=2f20qe&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

Despite the early chat of non negotiables & hard work the fact that Hibernian are not at least personified by David Gray the player is a worry.

[Ozyhibby]

You need to back that up or withdraw it. Not aware that the black knights have withheld any funds because we appointed SDG.

We were told there would be ‘game changing’ investment in the summer. It didn’t happen.


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[04Sauzee]

We were told there would be ‘game changing’ investment in the summer. It didn’t happen.


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I can't remember what was said and by who, but did the club say that or was it fans that were saying 'game changing '

[TrinityHFC]

We were told there would be ‘game changing’ investment in the summer. It didn’t happen.


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It did happen. It is up to Hibs how they use it. The game changing bit also referred to the advantages of being part of the wider group. Will take a while before we can judge any of it.

[Ozyhibby]

I can't remember what was said and by who, but did the club say that or was it fans that were saying 'game changing '

Club said it at the shareholders meeting to approve the BK investment.


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[04Sauzee]

Club said it at the shareholders meeting to approve the BK investment.


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Cheers I had seen the quote but wasn't sure if it was fans or the board

[Springbank]

To misquote Bananarama, it aint what you spend its the way that you spend it, thats what gets results

Instead of Levitt, McKirdy, Youan (in his petted lip unserious footballer era), Melkersen, Ewan Henderson, JDH, Nicky Cadden - all of whom we paid fees for - spend once & spend well on a Lennon Miller and you actually grow the club.

You improve the team in the here and now, you have good attitudes on the training ground (not the utter wasters and joke professional/petted lip brigade)

And you have a guy who rises from £2.2m to £5m during his time on your books

[we are hibs]

Cheers I had seen the quote but wasn't sure if it was fans or the boardhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cw9e9y8pl2go




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[CapitalGreen]

To misquote Bananarama, it aint what you spend its the way that you spend it, thats what gets results

Instead of Levitt, McKirdy, Youan (in his petted lip unserious footballer era), Melkersen, Ewan Henderson, JDH, Nicky Cadden - all of whom we paid fees for - spend once & spend well on a Lennon Miller and you actually grow the club.

You improve the team in the here and now, you have good attitudes on the training ground (not the utter wasters and joke professional/petted lip brigade)

And you have a guy who rises from £2.2m to £5m during his time on your books

Lennon Miller 😂😂

[Ozyhibby]

Lennon Miller [emoji23][emoji23]

I’d be surprised if anyone in Scotland will be able to afford him by next summer.


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[leith lynx]

I can't remember what was said and by who, but did the club say that or was it fans that were saying 'game changing '

Ben Kensall said that at the AGM, the shareholders/supporters were quite clearly lied to.

[degenerated]

Maybe we should continue to support him. Think he has a decent chance to turn this roundYou're on the wrong forum I think. This is the one where savings are demanded after half a dozen games.

[TrinityHFC]

Ben Kensall said that at the AGM, the shareholders/supporters were quite clearly lied to.

I don’t recall them promising that all the advantages of the investment would be delivered by October.

[Bobby's Cinema]

We created the best opportunities. But our approach to this game was for me very very disappointing.

When I seen the line-up including Gayle, Boyle, Youan, Hoilett you think of ball on the deck, quick interplay, running at people, creating plenty from open play. It just was not there.

The amount of comfortable possession we afforded them was painful as home team in a derby. You would expect a team joint bottom of the league with a new manager having played on the Thursday night to be vulnerable. But we allowed them to get their foot on the ball.

And several times we launched it straight back to them for them to knock it around for another minute or two. The long diagonal ball over the top is a clear tactic. I seen it in the league cup group stages and it was evident on Sunday. It reminds me a bit of butchers time where we just constantly played aimless balls up the channel.

Where was the urgency in our play? Several times at 0-0 our keeper could almost be accused of timewasting. Get the ball recycled back in play and lets go. The way I feel watching us at the moment I would seriously be considering whether to renew.

[MWHIBBIES]

We were told there would be ‘game changing’ investment in the summer. It didn’t happen.


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Don't think that was happening with Gray or Pep.

[Hibernian Verse]

We created the best opportunities. But our approach to this game was for me very very disappointing.

When I seen the line-up including Gayle, Boyle, Youan, Hoilett you think of ball on the deck, quick interplay, running at people, creating plenty from open play. It just was not there.

The amount of comfortable possession we afforded them was painful as home team in a derby. You would expect a team joint bottom of the league with a new manager having played on the Thursday night to be vulnerable. But we allowed them to get their foot on the ball.

And several times we launched it straight back to them for them to knock it around for another minute or two. The long diagonal ball over the top is a clear tactic. I seen it in the league cup group stages and it was evident on Sunday. It reminds me a bit of butchers time where we just constantly played aimless balls up the channel.

Where was the urgency in our play? Several times at 0-0 our keeper could almost be accused of timewasting. Get the ball recycled back in play and lets go. The way I feel watching us at the moment I would seriously be considering whether to renew.

They did absolutely nothing with the ball, which will be why we let them have it. It was spot on tactically from Gray and led to us getting 5 or 6 really good chances throughout the game whilst they were limited to two (Shankland and their goal).

It's not ideal to see at home, but sometimes you have to know your own limitations and let the other team have the ball. Jack Ross did it and we finished third.

There are two teams on the park remember, and they pressed us really high which is why there weren't options to get up the pitch quickly.

[Centre Hawf]

We were told there would be ‘game changing’ investment in the summer. It didn’t happen.


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They invested money. What we've done with it is another question.

[Jones28]

I might be wrong on this, but as far as I'm aware the rules of the investment from BK set down by the SFA/League - whoever it was that had to approve it - was that it was not just £6m for Hibs to do with what they wanted: some had to be allocated to the womans team, some to youth, some to community spending, academy development etc etc.

So it's nothing like £6m in to the transfer kitty, it was invested all over the club.

[easty]

To misquote Bananarama, it aint what you spend its the way that you spend it, thats what gets results

Instead of Levitt, McKirdy, Youan (in his petted lip unserious footballer era), Melkersen, Ewan Henderson, JDH, Nicky Cadden - all of whom we paid fees for - spend once & spend well on a Lennon Miller and you actually grow the club.

You improve the team in the here and now, you have good attitudes on the training ground (not the utter wasters and joke professional/petted lip brigade)

And you have a guy who rises from £2.2m to £5m during his time on your books

You're dreaming if you think we can sign Lennon Miller :faf:

Even if we had the funds to buy him, we've got no chance of getting him to sign for Hibs. The boy looks quality.

[easty]

We were told there would be ‘game changing’ investment in the summer. It didn’t happen.


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We spent a chunk of money on Bowie, and were prepared to do so on McCowan.

I don't think it's lack of funding that's the issue, it's how we use it.

[Jock O]

To misquote Bananarama, it aint what you spend its the way that you spend it, thats what gets results

Instead of Levitt, McKirdy, Youan (in his petted lip unserious footballer era), Melkersen, Ewan Henderson, JDH, Nicky Cadden - all of whom we paid fees for - spend once & spend well on a Lennon Miller and you actually grow the club.

You improve the team in the here and now, you have good attitudes on the training ground (not the utter wasters and joke professional/petted lip brigade)

And you have a guy who rises from £2.2m to £5m during his time on your books

You also probably have a guy who won't sign for us currently no matter how we push, as his eye is somewhere else.

Its not just one way traffic where we pluck any player we want. There are far wider considerations both externally and internally.

Recruitment has been poor but sadly we can't just play fantasy football to fix it.

[Jock O]

They did absolutely nothing with the ball, which will be why we let them have it. It was spot on tactically from Gray and led to us getting 5 or 6 really good chances throughout the game whilst they were limited to two (Shankland and their goal).

It's not ideal to see at home, but sometimes you have to know your own limitations and let the other team have the ball. Jack Ross did it and we finished third.

There are two teams on the park remember, and they pressed us really high which is why there weren't options to get up the pitch quickly.

It sounds like Gray set the team up to combat their high press, but doesn't seem to be getting any credit for that, apart from above. I only heard first half on radio and highlights are rubbish so it is difficult to assess but if so surely this is him doing what he said he would by adapting to specific challenges and it so nearly came off. The manner of the result obviously probably killed any chance of looking on it positively but it does seem like no matter what most aren't for giving him a chance now.

I also seen him getting heavy criticism for his comments about both sets players playing not to lose due to how big the game was, and everybody set upon him as if he had instructed them to do so, when to me it was clear he was saying players didn't do what they should or could due to nerves on the occasion, which seemed a fair assessment based on what I have heard. However everyone seemed to assume that was his mindset. Again he really cannot win at moment, pun intended!

[GreenPJ]

It sounds like Gray set the team up to combat their high press, but doesn't seem to be getting any credit for that, apart from above. I only heard first half on radio and highlights are rubbish so it is difficult to assess but if so surely this is him doing what he said he would by adapting to specific challenges and it so nearly came off. The manner of the result obviously probably killed any chance of looking on it positively but it does seem like no matter what most aren't for giving him a chance now.

I also seen him getting heavy criticism for his comments about both sets players playing not to lose due to how big the game was, and everybody set upon him as if he had instructed them to do so, when to me it was clear he was saying players didn't do what they should or could due to nerves on the occasion, which seemed a fair assessment based on what I have heard. However everyone seemed to assume that was his mindset. Again he really cannot win at moment, pun intended!

I agree that some of the criticism is unfair on Gray, however, he does not help himself. A huge frustration for me is when the opposition (anyone) has a corner or free kick in our half, the entire team is back defending which invariably means unless the keeper takes the ball or it goes out for a goal kick there is no out ball for us. We had Elie, Boyle, Hoillet and Gayle all on the pitch with decent pace - leave one of them on the half way line and it automatically takes two opposition players out of our box. We are inviting teams onto us by some of the tactics and lets face it the team is lacking confidence when it comes to defending. I also did find it strange that Elie comes in from nowhere to start and then JDH gets last 10 mins who maybe OK as a defensive midfielder offers us nothing from an attacking sense - again would it have been better to put Rudi on with instruction to track back but also gives you the opportunity to try and go forward. Unless Hoillet was knackered I would have left him on the park as was our best player.

[andrew70]

The comparisons with Jack Ross are spot on the only difference was we had a sprightly Martin Boyle that we played through to get out and up the pitch.

We never done that enough on Sunday. We should have used Boyle and Youan a lot more despite Boyle not having the pace he used to have.

In Doidge and Nisbet Jack Ross also had a forward pairing to target too. Perhaps an idea is to play Myk and Gayle together.

It was very similar to a performance against Motherwell in 2020 at Fir Park. We won 3-0, went third but this time we never took our chances.

We gave up large chunks of possession that day and it was a boring watch on the tv (Covid) but got the necessary result, like much of that season.

[Jock O]

I agree that some of the criticism is unfair on Gray, however, he does not help himself. A huge frustration for me is when the opposition (anyone) has a corner or free kick in our half, the entire team is back defending which invariably means unless the keeper takes the ball or it goes out for a goal kick there is no out ball for us. We had Elie, Boyle, Hoillet and Gayle all on the pitch with decent pace - leave one of them on the half way line and it automatically takes two opposition players out of our box. We are inviting teams onto us by some of the tactics and lets face it the team is lacking confidence when it comes to defending. I also did find it strange that Elie comes in from nowhere to start and then JDH gets last 10 mins who maybe OK as a defensive midfielder offers us nothing from an attacking sense - again would it have been better to put Rudi on with instruction to track back but also gives you the opportunity to try and go forward. Unless Hoillet was knackered I would have left him on the park as was our best player.

I think this all back at corner seems to be a tactic a number of clubs use, don't think its just Gray, but agree it is not something I favour.

I sort of got the Youan starting, it was a gamble no doubt, but an understandable one. The subs less understandable, if it is one constant I think he deserves flak for is the substitutions, they rarely work, not sure they caused the goal at weekend but don't think they helped at all with the task at hand. I suspect with Hoillett there must be some pre-planned time for him, as it seems regular to take him off, but agree we really needed players to do a job and the subs weakened us considerable again. A recurring theme.

I wasn't at game so not sure how Hoillett reacted to coming off, sometimes a good sign if he is goosed or not.

[Since452]

Bowie being injured has been catastrophic for Gray. I'd wager we'd be much higher up the table with him available. He looked really good.

[Hibernian Verse]

I agree that some of the criticism is unfair on Gray, however, he does not help himself. A huge frustration for me is when the opposition (anyone) has a corner or free kick in our half, the entire team is back defending which invariably means unless the keeper takes the ball or it goes out for a goal kick there is no out ball for us. We had Elie, Boyle, Hoillet and Gayle all on the pitch with decent pace - leave one of them on the half way line and it automatically takes two opposition players out of our box. We are inviting teams onto us by some of the tactics and lets face it the team is lacking confidence when it comes to defending. I also did find it strange that Elie comes in from nowhere to start and then JDH gets last 10 mins who maybe OK as a defensive midfielder offers us nothing from an attacking sense - again would it have been better to put Rudi on with instruction to track back but also gives you the opportunity to try and go forward. Unless Hoillet was knackered I would have left him on the park as was our best player.

Just on this, the reason teams (and plenty of them including Hearts at the weekend) do this is because statistically you are more likely to clear the danger with everyone back. The chances of being able to control the ball and play the perfect pass to the player you leave up after a corner or free kick are so slim that it's almost pointless leaving them up there, they may as well be back helping to defending the cross.

Even if you have made the perfect pass to them and everything has gone right, they then need to retain the ball with 2/3 defenders around them.

Edit: They don't actually leave anymore players back, teams will still leave two hovering in the "midfield".

[Hibernian Verse]

The comparisons with Jack Ross are spot on the only difference was we had a sprightly Martin Boyle that we played through to get out and up the pitch.

We never done that enough on Sunday. We should have used Boyle and Youan a lot more despite Boyle not having the pace he used to have.

In Doidge and Nisbet Jack Ross also had a forward pairing to target too. Perhaps an idea is to play Myk and Gayle together.

It was very similar to a performance against Motherwell in 2020 at Fir Park. We won 3-0, went third but this time we never took our chances.

We gave up large chunks of possession that day and it was a boring watch on the tv (Covid) but got the necessary result, like much of that season.

Was that the game that Stephen McGinn wrapped up late on?

[easty]

Just on this, the reason teams (and plenty of them including Hearts at the weekend) do this is because statistically you are more likely to clear the danger with everyone back. The chances of being able to control the ball and play the perfect pass to the player you leave up after a corner or free kick are so slim that it's almost pointless leaving them up there, they may as well be back helping to defending the cross.

Even if you have made the perfect pass to them and everything has gone right, they then need to retain the ball with 2/3 defenders around them.

Statistically you are 100% more likely to retain possession from a cleared corner if you have a player up the park, than leaving nobody up the park.

I'm not really sure what the defensive corner routine is for us just now. First corner at the weekend I'm sure Hearts had 2 on the edge of the box, that Boyle seemed to be picking up both. Then Hearts still had another player further back towards the half way line.

[B.H.F.C]

Statistically you are 100% more likely to retain possession from a cleared corner if you have a player up the park, than leaving nobody up the park.

I'm not really sure what the defensive corner routine is for us just now. First corner at the weekend I'm sure Hearts had 2 on the edge of the box, that Boyle seemed to be picking up both. Then Hearts still had another player further back towards the half way line.

It just appears disorganised to me full stop in such situations.

I never thought we got set right at the throw in leading to the goal. They made a sub at that point and I think we switched off.

For me it comes back to lack of leadership on the pitch as well as what happens off it. There is nobody in there that makes sure folk are doing their jobs.

[Hibernian Verse]

Statistically you are 100% more likely to retain possession from a cleared corner if you have a player up the park, than leaving nobody up the park.

I'm not really sure what the defensive corner routine is for us just now. First corner at the weekend I'm sure Hearts had 2 on the edge of the box, that Boyle seemed to be picking up both. Then Hearts still had another player further back towards the half way line.

Ultimately they weigh up and pros and cons and decide what's best. It was being used to moan at Gray, but it's very common - I was just explaining why.

[easty]

Ultimately they weigh up and pros and cons and decide what's best. It was being used to moan at Gray, but it's very common - I was just explaining why.

Aye I get where you're coming from :aok:

[andrew70]

Was that the game that Stephen McGinn wrapped up late on?

yes that’s the one.

[McD]

To misquote Bananarama, it aint what you spend its the way that you spend it, thats what gets results

Instead of Levitt, McKirdy, Youan (in his petted lip unserious footballer era), Melkersen, Ewan Henderson, JDH, Nicky Cadden - all of whom we paid fees for - spend once & spend well on a Lennon Miller and you actually grow the club.

You improve the team in the here and now, you have good attitudes on the training ground (not the utter wasters and joke professional/petted lip brigade)

And you have a guy who rises from £2.2m to £5m during his time on your books


Ewan Henderson was a loan with a pre contract agreement to sign when his Celtic contract ran out.

Nicky Cadden was without a club when we signed him, and had been for a couple of months.

Jake Doyle-Hayes was out of contract at st mirren when we signed him.

[leith lynx]

I don’t recall them promising that all the advantages of the investment would be delivered by October.

Could have at least signed a decent goalkeeper though!

[jacomo]

We spent a chunk of money on Bowie, and were prepared to do so on McCowan.

I don't think it's lack of funding that's the issue, it's how we use it.


Yes McGowan is probably the one that got away.

If you miss out on your main target you don’t just commit to spending the same money come what may in the same window.

[Ozyhibby]

Ultimately they weigh up and pros and cons and decide what's best. It was being used to moan at Gray, but it's very common - I was just explaining why.

Individual tactics aren’t really the problem as far as having something to moan about Gray. The fact that we are stuck at the bottom of the league in late October is his biggest problem.


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[Ozyhibby]

I don’t recall them promising that all the advantages of the investment would be delivered by October.

No, I suspect that being bottom of the league was not what most expected either.


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[TrinityHFC]

No, I suspect that being bottom of the league was not what most expected either.


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League position after a few games is quite a different thing from lying to shareholders about investment which was being suggested.

[Unseen work]

The comparisons with Jack Ross are spot on the only difference was we had a sprightly Martin Boyle that we played through to get out and up the pitch.

We never done that enough on Sunday. We should have used Boyle and Youan a lot more despite Boyle not having the pace he used to have.

In Doidge and Nisbet Jack Ross also had a forward pairing to target too. Perhaps an idea is to play Myk and Gayle together.

It was very similar to a performance against Motherwell in 2020 at Fir Park. We won 3-0, went third but this time we never took our chances.

We gave up large chunks of possession that day and it was a boring watch on the tv (Covid) but got the necessary result, like much of that season.

You cannot compare SDG who is bottom of the league with Jack Ross who finished 3rd and got to numerous semi finals and finals

Ross recruited well, had us organised and had us winning and grinding out results

[B.H.F.C]

You cannot compare SDG who is bottom of the league with Jack Ross who finished 3rd and got to numerous semi finals and finals

Ross recruited well, had us organised and had us winning and grinding out results

As someone who wasn’t the biggest fan of Ross, that is unquestionable (certainly for that one full season even if we still chucked in a few howlers).

I thought Gray would aim for something similar. In fact, I think he probably is, he’s just not managing to implement it.

[andrew70]

You cannot compare SDG who is bottom of the league with Jack Ross who finished 3rd and got to numerous semi finals and finals

Ross recruited well, had us organised and had us winning and grinding out results

No but I can compare the tactics which couldn’t be anymore similar.

Its the execution that’s the issue.

I wish he would have his own tactical identity but there’s little to suggest he does.

[One Day Soon]

I might be wrong on this, but as far as I'm aware the rules of the investment from BK set down by the SFA/League - whoever it was that had to approve it - was that it was not just £6m for Hibs to do with what they wanted: some had to be allocated to the womans team, some to youth, some to community spending, academy development etc etc.

So it's nothing like £6m in to the transfer kitty, it was invested all over the club.

Being able to invest that money all over the rest of the club should have meant that the other money we had in - more than another £4 million - COULD have been spent on players.

[Scotty Leither]

It sounds like Gray set the team up to combat their high press, but doesn't seem to be getting any credit for that, apart from above. I only heard first half on radio and highlights are rubbish so it is difficult to assess but if so surely this is him doing what he said he would by adapting to specific challenges and it so nearly came off. The manner of the result obviously probably killed any chance of looking on it positively but it does seem like no matter what most aren't for giving him a chance now.

I also seen him getting heavy criticism for his comments about both sets players playing not to lose due to how big the game was, and everybody set upon him as if he had instructed them to do so, when to me it was clear he was saying players didn't do what they should or could due to nerves on the occasion, which seemed a fair assessment based on what I have heard. However everyone seemed to assume that was his mindset. Again he really cannot win at moment, pun intended!

It’s more what the players can’t do rather than what they should do. Some of that is on David Gray too as well as the useless recruitment team headed up by chief chancer Mackay.

I’ve never seen a Hibs team so utterly bereft of creativity. It’s absolutely painful to watch.

[Garymcl]

What has happened to the 4millon that was promised for the playing side

[MWHIBBIES]

What has happened to the 4millon that was promised for the playing side

Who promised this?

[Coco Bryce]

What has happened to the 4millon that was promised for the playing side

We used it shore up the accounts.

[flash]

We used it shore up the accounts.

Can you expand on this as the relevant accounts are yet to be published?

[Coco Bryce]

Can you expand on this as the relevant accounts are yet to be published?

No

[Jones28]

Being able to invest that money all over the rest of the club should have meant that the other money we had in - more than another £4 million - COULD have been spent on players.

Could have been, if we hadn't made a complete arse of it.

[flash]

No

Imagine my surprise.

[SaulGoodman]

Are we back to the selection bingo days again? They say a settled squad makes a difference..

Motm from Sunday dropped to bench. Our two star cameo appearance makers in NMW and Doyle-Hayes out the squad completely.. what was the point in them coming on?

[easty]

Are we back to the selection bingo days again? They say a settled squad makes a difference..

Motm from Sunday dropped to bench. Our two star cameo appearance makers in NMW and Doyle-Hayes out the squad completely.. what was the point in them coming on?

I just said almost exactly the same in my WhatsApp group

[Callum_62]

Are we back to the selection bingo days again? They say a settled squad makes a difference..

Motm from Sunday dropped to bench. Our two star cameo appearance makers in NMW and Doyle-Hayes out the squad completely.. what was the point in them coming on?In JDH case, not sure really [emoji1787]

Maybe some have knocks or maybe JC has to be back in the squad....

First 11 I've no massive issue over

Captain back, Myko back in

Id assume Gayle is injured and while I'd have player Kwon with Newell and Triantis maybe he thinks tonight suits Elie and a chance to get him firing

None of the changes to the first 11 are particularly shocking imo

Few eyebrows at the bench but might just be knocks etc

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[greenlex]

Unless players have injuries or carrying knocks and can’t play 90+ mins I fear Gray has really lost the plot if he even ever had it.

[Coco Bryce]

Gray using the same Tombola as previous managers.

[Smartie]

Team and changes make sense to me. Captain and main striker return, a wee bit of rotation through 3 games in 8 days.

I agree some of the decisions re subs are bizarre but there may be more to that than we know about.

Certainly doesn’t strike me as tombola stuff. How many centre halves was it in Lennon’s last game at Killie?

Even if it was tombola stuff - I think he’d be forgiven for not knowing the best team out of our available players, as I don’t think anyone could say it’s all that obvious.

[Allant1981]

Gray using the same Tombola as previous managers.

Not really, newell is his captain so is probably always going to play and myko at the minute is his #9 so will most likely play, not really shocking selections from that, not the team I'd have went with but not hard to understand why he has selected them

[MWHIBBIES]

Are we back to the selection bingo days again? They say a settled squad makes a difference..

Motm from Sunday dropped to bench. Our two star cameo appearance makers in NMW and Doyle-Hayes out the squad completely.. what was the point in them coming on?

Kwon was never going to play every match. In fact, no one is. He'll be back in at weekend. Rotation is natural.

[blackpoolhibs]

RC starting to control the game now, and we are getting deeper. :rolleyes:

[Paul1642]

I think it’s easy to look back at previous managers with a little mot positivity however under Monty I felt things under him always looked to be on the cusp of going right and for whatever reason kept falling slightly short.

Right now however we just look like we have no idea what we are trying to do. I know which manager I would rather have in change right now and unfortunately it isn’t Gray.

I really want to give him a fair shot but he has to show some sort of progress.

[Unseen work]

If he doesn’t win tonight he needs to go.

This isn’t a ‘project’ we’re being impatient with, this is a seriously bad position we’re in and has to be done

If he had 4 wins out the 10 everyone would be fine with it.

1 is horrendous

[J-C]

We have a rookie manager still learning, a rookie coach, a GK coach Aberdeen fans were glad to see the back of and May who'd rather be out the limelight coaching his youth teams, all of them don't seem to have a clue, what a mess to be in and playing some of the worst football I've seen in a while.

[rcarter1]

If a manager is sacked there should be a clause where players can have contracts terminated and owners face a vote of confidence from the fans.

[MWHIBBIES]

If a manager is sacked there should be a clause where players can have contracts terminated and owners face a vote of confidence from the fans.

Great idea. I mean, we'd never attract another decent player again, but otherwise, flawless :greengrin

[Not In The Know]

We have a rookie manager still learning, a rookie coach, a GK coach Aberdeen fans were glad to see the back of and May who'd rather be out the limelight coaching his youth teams, all of them don't seem to have a clue, what a mess to be in and playing some of the worst football I've seen in a while.

This should be pinned


And this is the team put in place when let’s be honest we are in crisis.

[Aldo]

We have a rookie manager still learning, a rookie coach, a GK coach Aberdeen fans were glad to see the back of and May who'd rather be out the limelight coaching his youth teams, all of them don't seem to have a clue, what a mess to be in and playing some of the worst football I've seen in a while.

You can add the owners, CEO, DoF and his pencil sharpener/paper clip counter to that list of not having a clue.

[Not In The Know]

Great idea. I mean, we'd never attract another decent player again, but otherwise, flawless :greengrin

lol. Summin in that tho.

how about if you are in a team that has 2 managers sacked then the fans can review?

[greenlex]

You can add the owners, CEO, DoF and his pencil sharpener/paper clip counter to that list of not having a clue.
**** it. The fans can **** off to.

[Aldo]

**** it. The fans can **** off to.

Aye them too. [emoji2957]

[rcarter1]

Great idea. I mean, we'd never attract another decent player again, but otherwise, flawless :greengrin

This is true, we maybe better go into administration and just start from scratch - it’s like we are in a never ending burnt out/inadequate/demotivated highly contracted expensive mess with no way to resolve

[NC1875]

Get him gone.

Absolute clueless

Absolute hoof merchants.

[SaulGoodman]

Up there with some of the worst tactics I’ve ever seen from us.

[Coco Bryce]

Get him gone.

Clueless. Football worse than Butcher.

[Since452]

Weird subs yet again. So, so worrying.

[Unseen work]

He has to go

1 win in 10 is unacceptable

No one else would survive this and it must be our worst run in years?

Just because who he is doesn’t mean he gets given more time

We’re in a very scary position

[supermcginn]

He's got to go, it was a scandalous decision to give him the job, part of the last 4 awful coaching teams and a total rookie as a manager. If he hadn't scored the winner in the cup final 8 years ago he would never ever have even been thought about for the job.

[Hibs90]

He's got to go, it was a scandalous decision to give him the job, part of the last 4 awful coaching teams and a total rookie as a manager. If he hadn't scored the winner in the cup final 8 years ago he would never ever have even been thought about for the job.

Leaning towards agreement but the root cause is still there and it will just be another ****show until the golden shower leave as we trundle towards relegation under their stewardship.

[Aldo]

He has to go

1 win in 10 is unacceptable

No one else would survive this and it must be our worst run in years?

Just because who he is doesn’t mean he gets given more time

We’re in a very scary position

Duff Jimmy territory and we know how that ended up.

IG and co won’t do anything and we plod along to the weekend.

[Unseen work]

Duff Jimmy territory and we know how that ended up.

IG and co won’t do anything and we plod along to the weekend.

Yep, I can’t see them sacking him

Hopefully foley will influence them and make them realise the danger we’re in

[Ozyhibby]

9 goals in 10 league games. It’s horrific.
Sending Vente on loan and keeping McKirdy?
If he’s sacked then it’s on him to be honest.


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[The Modfather]

Another week goes by without anything to suggest Gray is the right man or deserves time for no reason other than who he is unfortunately.

[Coco Bryce]

9 goals in 10 league games. It’s horrific.
Sending Vente on loan and keeping McKirdy?
If he’s sacked then it’s on him to be honest.


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Vente asked to leave to be fair.

[The Tubs]

9 goals in 10 league games. It’s horrific.
Sending Vente on loan and keeping McKirdy?
If he’s sacked then it’s on him to be honest.


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Because someone wanted Vente while you imagine nobody wanted McKirdy. It's much better than letting Vente stagnate even more in Scotland.

[Aldo]

Yep, I can’t see them sacking him

Hopefully foley will influence them and make them realise the danger we’re in

Huge ego, that and majority share holder won’t let that happen imho.

If IG wants the club to be a success he really needs to take a step back and give the BKG a chance.

[IanM]

10% win rate

[AdidasHibernian]

This is as bad as Butcher and look what happened...

Shambles

[JohnM1875]

This is as bad as Butcher and look what happened...

Shambles

It's as bad as anything I can remember.

[hfc-1875]

10 games in and I couldn’t tell you our style of play. Looks like it’s just hopeful rather than having a plan, rank rotten tonight and can’t see it changing any time soon

[Callum_62]

Get Critchley in

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[GreenCastle]

I think he gets the Dundee Utd game but he has to WIN it. Lose at home and he’s gone. Draws are crap - yes unbeaten but we need wins.

Fail to win that..Hearts home and County away and I would bring in fresh ideas.

I wouldn’t trust them though to find the right candidate or even wonder if they have a plan ready to step in.

Last thing I want is MM though..would rather keep Gray.

Think blind faith is taking over as I watched that tonight and felt like we couldn’t score if we played for weeks.

[Aldo]

I think he gets the Dundee Utd game.

Fail to win that..Hearts home and County away and I would bring in fresh ideas.

I wouldn’t trust them though to find the right candidate or even wonder if they have a plan ready to step in.

Last thing I want is MM though..would rather keeper Gray.

I’d let the BKG make the next appointment. Couldn’t be any worse than what we are seeing just now.

I do agree with your last bit.

[Unseen work]

I think he gets the Dundee Utd game.

Fail to win that..Hearts home and County away and I would bring in fresh ideas.

I wouldn’t trust them though to find the right candidate or even wonder if they have a plan ready to step in.

Last thing I want is MM though..would rather keeper Gray.

I fear we just keep saying he gets the next game and don’t realise the position we’re in

The club stinks of this attitude that we won’t get relegated for some reason

That game was not played by players that are bottom of the league and trying to prove a point.

[SaulGoodman]

What’s even the point in sacking him, we’ll still have the golden ****wits picking the next manager.

We’re an absolute shambles on and off the pitch.

[Callum_62]

What’s even the point in sacking him, we’ll still have the golden ****wits picking the next manager.

We’re an absolute shambles on and off the pitch.I still think we are underperforming on the pitch with what we have though

We can argue and debate all day about behind the scenes (which is changing) but first and foremost Gray is struggling big time

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[GreenCastle]

I fear we just keep saying he gets the next game and don’t realise the position we’re in

The club stinks of this attitude that we won’t get relegated for some reason

That game was not played by players that are bottom of the league and trying to prove a point.

Don’t think they will make a change between now and Sunday too short a time frame.

I’m not a next game type of person usually but I think it’s “final final” chance here to win at home.

We then play St Mirren - Dundee - Aberdeen…

There is a 2 week gap between St Mirren and Dundee game..

But we are at the stage where credit in the bank is needing wins - not just a win this weekend then a loss or draw next..x2 wins in a row or a good away win.

Hibs subs are weird and rarely improve the team / momentum of games.