Gray is out of his depth’

[calumb]

His insistence in bringing every man back into the 18 yard box whilst defending corners at home against one of the worst teams in the league should be more than enough reason to get rid of him.

[Donegal Hibby]

Seven points from twelve recently isn’t half bad :greengrin

Well done Gray and his staff :flag:

[B.H.F.C]

There were things in that first half that were absolutely on the management team. The general lack of organisation, understanding of where to be, set up for defensive set pieces. We just don’t look a well coached, well drilled team.

I don’t think the first half is all down to a lack of effort, it’s all down to a lack of the above. The one thing he has going for him is that the players have, clearly, never stopped playing for him. He/they just aren’t very good.

Glad we got the win today, very glad. Don't hold out much hope for our longer term prospects under Gray.

[Hibiza]

Spin that performance anyway you like but it was ( except last week ) the TURPID usual.

[raeburnhibs]

Comments calling for him to be sacked after a win and what has been a decent string of results and performances for us are very very telling. Some people on here want him to fail because it would reaffirm their belief he should never have been employed in the first place.

Well done getting that lot to wake up at half time, David. A much improved second half that meant we were worthy of the three points. A poor first half. Please drop Triantis for Kwon. Keep playing Gayle.

There is no need for reaffirmation; he shouldn't have been anywhere near the job and the evidence still suggests enormous failings. However, we will take the win and the improved run of results (currently more like mid table form), Youan belatedly waking up, scoring more goals, a more solid keeper.....a work in progress

[tamig]

I agree with you.

A semi competent side would have been out of sight after the first half hour. Second half I actually felt the players dug the manager out of a hole.

For us to be as bad as we were in the first half in what was such an important game is massively concerning for me.

Great to get the win and the more of them the better but I’ll remain firmly in the concerned camp.

I’m no huge fan of Gray based on what I’ve seen so far this season, but come on. That is a ridiculous statement to make. It’s laughable. Is it not the manager’s role to get the players to do just that? Very poor comment.

[Davy Mac]

To be fair to Gray, he delivered the target, to get above Ross County this week by beating them.

It really is one game at a time stuff and clearly he is now getting coached from behind the scenes on what to say, so fair doos.

This is damage limitation to get to the window, so I'm willing to look to the next game against Aberdeen and shut up shop and get a point.

It's a decent mindset with this bunch.

[SHODAN]

Another redemption.

[tamig]

Spin that performance anyway you like but it was ( except last week ) the TURPID usual.

Do you actually support Hibs? I don’t think I’ve ever seen you post anything positive.

[The Harp Awakes]

Even after a win, he has to go. The way he set us up to play in that first half would see us pumped by most teams, and lets be honest here, Ross County are sheite, but they made us look worse for long parts of that game.

Glad of the win, but i still have a huge fear with this lot of players and manager.

Exactly how I feel. Any points we get under Gray is a bonus, but his team set up and tactics are brutal. How Triantis started and then managed to stay on the pitch for the entire game is gobsmacking.

Still panicking all over the pitch at 3-1 v Ross County in injury time says it all. Everyone back in the penalty area at corners wtf.

[B.H.F.C]

Exactly how I feel. Any points we get under Gray is a bonus, but his team set up and tactics are brutal. How Triantis started and then managed to stay on the pitch for the entire game is gobsmacking.

Still panicking all over the pitch at 3-1 v Ross County in injury time says it all. Everyone back in the penalty area at corners wtf.

Everyone being back at corners is the least of our worries. It’s the fact that they don’t really seem to know what they’re meant to be doing once they’re there.

[HoboHarry]

We win 3-1 and the top post on .net when I go to the site is about DG getting fired lol. This place is something else.

[bingo70]

I’m no huge fan of Gray based on what I’ve seen so far this season, but come on. That is a ridiculous statement to make. It’s laughable. Is it not the manager’s role to get the players to do just that? Very poor comment.

Maybe.

I just don’t think the second half improvement was a result of anything Gray did differently. If it was as simple as a rousing back time team talk it something then he should have done that before the game. Just my opinion but I think tactically we are an absolute shambles and the players are having to bust a gut to win games in spite of that, not because we are being well coached through matches.

[bingo70]

We win 3-1 and the top post on .net when I go to the site is about DG getting fired lol. This place is something else.

It’s almost like people are giving their opinion on the performance on a website where the who purpose is for people to give their options on things like this.

If you just want to read that we were brilliant, wait for the club to post the match report on the official website.

[B.H.F.C]

Maybe.

I just don’t think the second half improvement was a result of anything Gray did differently. If it was as simple as a rousing back time team talk it something then he should have done that before the game. Just my opinion but I think tactically we are an absolute shambles and the players are having to bust a gut to win games in spite of that, not because we are being well coached through matches.

The goal right on half time completely changes things.

I thought the atmosphere was strange today. The crowd aren’t being fooled by it. There was a big noise when the third went in and it was just pure relief. But it’s not often you’ll score with the last touch of the first half and still get booed off by a sizeable number of the crowd!

[Gmack7]

The formation wasn’t working today, we looked better after we took Iredale off and reverted to a back 4.

I thoughtbit was a like for like change, it didn't look like a formation change to me

[Just_Jimmy]

Anyone that thinks Gray is getting sacked after a win is mental.

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't go, just that there's no way they'll do it now.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[judas]

Maybe.

I just don’t think the second half improvement was a result of anything Gray did differently. If it was as simple as a rousing back time team talk it something then he should have done that before the game. Just my opinion but I think tactically we are an absolute shambles and the players are having to bust a gut to win games in spite of that, not because we are being well coached through matches.

Disagree. The players are poor.

Don’t kids yourself with amateur tactical analysis.

[CapitalGreen]

Disagree. The players are poor.

Don’t kids yourself with amateur tactical analysis.

They may be poor but the majority of them have got worse playing under Gray. Which of our players have improved under his management?

[bingo70]

Disagree. The players are poor.

Don’t kids yourself with amateur tactical analysis.

What was our tactics in the first half today then? What’s the plan when we have the ball?

[Hiber-nation]

What was our tactics in the first half today then? What’s the plan when we have the ball?

Midielders take some responsibility. Which never ever happens in games like this at home.

[JohnM1875]

What was our tactics in the first half today then? What’s the plan when we have the ball?

Didn't look like there were any. I think that's the worst I've seen us play in god knows how long. County were clearly the better team.

Was all about the win today though, we managed it. On to next week cause Gray isn't going anywhere any time soon.

[HoboHarry]

It’s almost like people are giving their opinion on the performance on a website where the who purpose is for people to give their options on things like this.

If you just want to read that we were brilliant, wait for the club to post the match report on the official website.

Aye maybe you're right and I need to get with the program and be a miserable **** even when we win.

[Mon Dieu4]

Midielders take some responsibility. Which never ever happens in games like this at home.

There was no midfield, Youan, Hoilett and N Cadden all play in pretty much the same position but are shoehorned into the team, the midfield needs major work

[Hiber-nation]

We win 3-1 and the top post on .net when I go to the site is about DG getting fired lol. This place is something else.

No it's not. Our 2 central mids (incl our captain) were hiding all first half. That's completely unacceptable and has to be called out.

[bingo70]

Aye maybe you're right and I need to get with the program and be a miserable **** even when we win.

Or you could just give your opinion on what you saw?

Everyone’s delighted we won. It was a great three points. It’s entirely possible to be pleased with the outcome but have big concerns about the performance.

[Smartie]

I’ve defended him, defended him and defended him - and will probably be the last man to be doing so - but after half an hour or so today even I was wondering if that was time up for Gray.

It’s hard to pin down what is down to manager and what is down to the players. Today I thought it felt like the players were letting him down (again) and were all over the shop but similarly it feels like today that - rather than anything Gray did - the players dug him out of it. Calm finish to get a goal at a great time and whilst we’ve slaughtered their resilience at times this season I thought they did brilliantly to carve a win out of such an imperfect performance.

This is a squad that is at least 3 or 4 very good players for our level away from meeting our expectations. Until then I think we need to cut everyone - including Gray - a bit of slack as they go about digging as many points out as possible with a squad that really isn’t fit for purpose.

[TrinityHFC]

So, when we lose there’s no point looking for positives when all we need are 3 points. We win and actually we should look at the negatives.

Wasn’t great but we got 3 important points and move on.

[blackpoolhibs]

Or you could just give your opinion on what you saw?

Everyone’s delighted we won. It was a great three points. It’s entirely possible to be pleased with the outcome but have big concerns about the performance.

Exactly, i'm over the moon we won, nothing would please me more if we climbed the table and won a lot more under SDG.

[JohnM1875]

So, when we lose there’s no point looking for positives when all we need are 3 points. We win and actually we should look at the negatives.

Wasn’t great but we got 3 important points and move on.

That's it for me.

Can't always play well and get the win. We played well the past few games and only managed one win. Played pretty poor for the majority of the match today but came away with three points. Which will always be the most important thing, especially where we are in the table.

[tamig]

Midielders take some responsibility. Which never ever happens in games like this at home.

Agreed. Newell and Triantis rarely came deep to take the ball from the defence first half. It was Rocky who picked up the ball most of the time, looked for some movement, saw none and passed the ball sideways. The midfield should have been there. Very poor.

[Real Emerald]

No it's not. Our 2 central mids (incl our captain) were hiding all first half. That's completely unacceptable and has to be called out.

That’s exactly what they were doing, Newell never got involved and definitely looked like he wasn’t wanting the ball and Triantis was awful, it was amazing he stayed on the park today especially after his booking. Our midfield was more nonexistent than usual and that is an achievement on its own. Shocking performance, fantastic and hugely welcome 3 points.

[tamig]

Exactly, i'm over the moon we won, nothing would please me more if we climbed the table and won a lot more under SDG.

How could that happen if you got your way though? I thought you said you were wanting him emptied tonight?

[bingo70]

So, when we lose there’s no point looking for positives when all we need are 3 points. We win and actually we should look at the negatives.

Wasn’t great but we got 3 important points and move on.

It’s just people giving their opinions.

You can give whatever positive or negative opinions you want, that’s the point of this forum. There’s nothing to say 3 points means positive opinions only, similarly there were a lot of positive posts despite us losing last week.

[Alfred E Newman]

Agreed. Newell and Triantis rarely came deep to take the ball from the defence first half. It was Rocky who picked up the ball most of the time, looked for some movement, saw none and passed the ball sideways. The midfield should have been there. Very poor.

Trantis had a nightmare of a game today and Newell produced a masterclass in hiding. Every time the centre backs passed the ball into the midfield it came right back to them. It's no wonder they resorted to just hoofing the ball in the general direction.

[superfurryhibby]

Delighted for Gray and the players today. A dire first half, an improved second half. Really pleased that Campbell and Youan got goals. Ellie showed balls to take the pen and was unselfish with the assist for the third. He went radge when Campbell put it away. I like to see a bit passion and he showed he cares.

Bring on the Hearts.

[blackpoolhibs]

How could that happen if you got your way though? I thought you said you were wanting him emptied tonight?

I would empty him, i'm prepared to gamble on us not winning a lot more under him.

[JohnM1875]

Trantis had a nightmare of a game today and Newell produced a masterclass in hiding. Every time the centre backs passed the ball into the midfield it came right back to them. It's no wonder they resorted to just hoofing the ball in the general direction.

I've honestly no idea how Kwon or even Moriah-Welsh aren't getting a game ahead of him. In my opinion, both are better players and offer a lot more.

[Unseen work]

I've honestly no idea how Kwon or even Moriah-Welsh aren't getting a game ahead of him. In my opinion, both are better players and offer a lot more.

The fall off of Moriah Welsh is an odd one. Plays with loads of energy and gets stuck in.

Could be tidier on the ball but I’ve not seen him be as careless as Triantis today

We desperately need a good centre mid though, the amount we’ve signed lately that haven’t cemented a starting position or shown quality is mental

Triantis
Kwon
Moriah Welsh
Amos
Levitt
Kenneh
Jeggo

All recent signings in the same area of the pitch

[Malthibby]

No it's not. Our 2 central mids (incl our captain) were hiding all first half. That's completely unacceptable and has to be called out.

As I was explaining to my wife who was wondering why Rocky was often holding on to the ball for so long; nothing in front of him, pointed out our midfielders facing him & moving backwards, closer to
RC players, essentially making it impossible to take a pass.
We won which we needed to do but I can't remember the last time I watched such an abject first half performance.

[The Modfather]

I've honestly no idea how Kwon or even Moriah-Welsh aren't getting a game ahead of him. In my opinion, both are better players and offer a lot more.

Sadly I think the likes of Triantis & Newell are Grays “non negotiables” and will play regardless of form.

[Unseen work]

Sadly I think the likes of Triantis & Newell are Grays “non negotiables” and will play regardless of form.

Funny how non negotiables appear to not following your midfield opposition into the box

[tamig]

I've honestly no idea how Kwon or even Moriah-Welsh aren't getting a game ahead of him. In my opinion, both are better players and offer a lot more.

Both of these guys have had a huge downturn in form after positive starts. Triantis has been poor recently and today was probably his worst performance since he came back to us. But I wouldn’t kid yourself that things will somehow change by replacing him with Kwon or NMW. Both were poor for a number of games before being dropped.

I had high hopes for NMW but now he just looks like so many of our other midfielders who contribute next to nothing.

[CapitalGreen]

I've honestly no idea how Kwon or even Moriah-Welsh aren't getting a game ahead of him. In my opinion, both are better players and offer a lot more.

Because we have a significantly better defensive record when Triantis is on the pitch.

[JohnM1875]

Because we have a significantly better defensive record when Triantis is on the pitch.

We have a horrific defensive record though. Moriah-Welsh doesn't have enough minutes to be judged on and Kwon offers more going forward.

[CapitalGreen]

We have a horrific defensive record though. Moriah-Welsh doesn't have enough minutes to be judged on and Kwon offers more going forward.

Our defensive record while Triantis is on the pitch is far from horrific.

[JohnM1875]

Our defensive record while Triantis is on the pitch is far from horrific.

Are you kidding? Is this some kind of joke I'm not getting? We've just come off bottom of the league with a minus GD after 17 games.

[greenlex]

I don’t like how we defended corners today. Three on the bounce and we didn’t have one player north of our penalty spot. The played the same shirt corner on each occasion causing is huge problems. We need to have one player, preferably two up the park IMO. Horrible to watch and an accident waiting to happen.

[Centre Hawf]

I think where I sit after today is that I've come to accept that it's a matter of time now before Dave Gray goes. I wanted him as manager and I've supported him throughout this, but today I needed to see a carrying on of momentum in the performances we've seen since Aberdeen. The first 45 minutes was some of the worst I've seen in a long long time, we actually played worse than we did in the opening 45 of our loss to Dundee imo, we just got lucky to not be so far behind come our goal.

I know it's a bit mental to come from a 3-1 win and have less faith in the manager but the truth is I just don't see us getting actually any better now under him. A competent team rallies to a multi goal lead against us today and doesn't let us back into the contest.

I won't beg for his sacking tonight or anything like that, it would be bizarre for him to actually go this week in all honesty. But I'm not seeing the consistent upturn in performances now that makes me think the result we got today is an indication of any change in the direction of travel we're going.

I'll continue to support him as long as he's here, but regardless of what happens this season I'm not convinced anymore he's the man to lead us into next as I'm not even really sure there is a plan with him.

[Crab apple]

I don’t like how we defended corners today. Three on the bounce and we didn’t have one player north of our penalty spot. The played the same shirt corner on each occasion causing is huge problems. We need to have one player, preferably two up the park IMO. Horrible to watch and an accident waiting to happen.

I was getting more and more annoyed about that today. We defended the corners well but against better opponents we will be punished. Was it Hecky that also had us set up this way at corners? Defintely one of our recent previous managers but I can't remember who.

[CapitalGreen]

Are you kidding? Is this some kind of joke I'm not getting? We've just come off bottom of the league with a minus GD after 17 games.

It’s not a joke but you’re certainly not getting it. Our defensive record is significantly better when Triantis is on the pitch compared to off it.

1.25 goals conceded per 90 when Triantis is on the pitch.
3.02 goals conceded per 90 when Triantis is not on the pitch.

[Greenwich_Hibby]

If anyone thinks we are going anywhere with Gray as manager, keep dreaming. 3 points are welcome but that was dire.

[JohnM1875]

It’s not a joke but you’re certainly not getting it. Our defensive record is significantly better when Triantis is on the pitch compared to off it.

1.25 goals conceded per 90 when Triantis is on the pitch.
3.02 goals conceded per 90 when Triantis is not on the pitch.

He basically plays every match though? When was he off the pitch this season? Genuinely can't think, surely him being sent off then us conceding doesn't count as him being off the pitch? Cause that's on him.

[CapitalGreen]

He basically plays every match though? When was he off the pitch this season? Genuinely can't think, surely him being sent off then us conceding doesn't count as him being off the pitch? Cause that's on him.

You’re right he does play nearly every minute, however the minutes he doesn’t play we concede goals at an alarming rate. We’ve conceded 14 in about 1100 minutes he’s played this season and conceded 15 in just the 450 minutes he’s been out. Even accounting for the 2nd Motherwell goal our defensive record is significantly better when he’s playing.

[JohnM1875]

You’re right he does play nearly every minute, however the minutes he doesn’t play we concede goals at an alarming rate. We’ve conceded 14 in about 1100 minutes he’s played this season and conceded 15 in just the 450 minutes he’s been out. Even accounting for the 2nd Motherwell goal our defensive record is significantly better when he’s playing.

Fair enough :aok: I'd still be dropping him.

Be interesting to see of the goals conceded goes up if O'Hora is out and he has to step into the back three.

[The Harp Awakes]

Everyone being back at corners is the least of our worries. It’s the fact that they don’t really seem to know what they’re meant to be doing once they’re there.

Not the least of our worries for sure.

Do you realise if everyone is in our own box defending corners and we manage to clear it, the opposition gets possession and the onslaught continues?

It's nonsensical and a big reason we are under the cosh for long periods of every game.

One example of the cr@p coaching, tactics and team set up.

We'd have been destroyed today if we were playing a half decent team.

[ChuckNor]

Some of the posts on here are genuinely mental. Poor first half and a controlled second where we won the game. It happens in football. Look at Celtic last week. Dreadful against us in the first half, should’ve been a few goals down but their keeper bails them out. Why can’t we enjoy our keeper doing the same for us? Second half Gray has got them much sharper. We deservedly won it in the second.

[CapitalGreen]

Some of the posts on here are genuinely mental. Poor first half and a controlled second where we won the game. It happens in football. Look at Celtic last week. Dreadful against us in the first half, should’ve been a few goals down but their keeper bails them out. Why can’t we enjoy our keeper doing the same for us? Second half Gray has got them much sharper. We deservedly won it in the second.

There wasn’t much control from us, Ross County dominated possession after we scored the 2nd and we managed to get a 3rd as the piled everyone forward.

[Hiber-nation]

Some of the posts on here are genuinely mental. Poor first half and a controlled second where we won the game. It happens in football. Look at Celtic last week. Dreadful against us in the first half, should’ve been a few goals down but their keeper bails them out. Why can’t we enjoy our keeper doing the same for us? Second half Gray has got them much sharper. We deservedly won it in the second.

Our attempts to see the game out were comical at times, players thrashing wildly at the ball. It was a worrying performance but thankfully Ross Co's defending was absolutely hopeless.

[Albahibs]

All about the result for me today. Winning 3-1 and climbing the table was paramount. Well done Sir David. Once we're safe, I'll start to worry about the style of winning. Delighted with the 3 points.

[ChuckNor]

There wasn’t much control from us, Ross County dominated possession after we scored the 2nd and we managed to get a 3rd as the piled everyone forward.

Thought we dealt with everything reasonably well. There were a few nervous moments but they never created anything of note. We could’ve scored again during injury time. I really don’t see why there is such a ridiculous OTT reaction.

[Donegal Hibby]

Just in case anyone missed today’s match and are looking in thinking we lost going by some of the reactions on here . No , we actually won which was the main objective…..

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/13273807/hibernian-3-1-ross-county-scottish-premiership-highlights

[CapitalGreen]

Thought we dealt with everything reasonably well. There were a few nervous moments but they never created anything of note. We could’ve scored again during injury time. I really don’t see why there is such a ridiculous OTT reaction.

Because we were playing a team that had only scored once away from all season before today and we made really hard work of it. We aren’t going to face many opponents weaker than Ross County over the rest of the season so we won’t get away with performances like that. The 3 points is the main thing but I think people who are happy with that performance are in for a rude awakening if we play that way again next week.

[GreenPJ]

We needed to win today and we did. The performance, tactics and personnel are still very much a worry. I am a big Joe Newell fan but for me he was hiding today. He positioned himself so close to the ball carrier or an opposition player that he had no effect on the game. As club captain what is not acceptable is hiding. He might have a bad game and I can forgive that but hiding especially as captain is unacceptable.

The squad still continues to baffle. Moriah Welsh comes in from the cold and gets time ahead of the one guy in the squad (Levitt) who can actually make a pass and try to create something.

Also not sure why you would take Iredale off for a like for like sub.

Against a better team the first half performance would have had us dead and buried.

[B.H.F.C]

Not the least of our worries for sure.

Do you realise if everyone is in our own box defending corners and we manage to clear it, the opposition gets possession and the onslaught continues?

It's nonsensical and a big reason we are under the cosh for long periods of every game.

One example of the cr@p coaching, tactics and team set up.

We'd have been destroyed today if we were playing a half decent team.

Even some of the biggest teams have everyone back in their own box to defend corners.

I’d say it’s a far bigger issue to defend them the way we do in the box itself. Nicky Cadden man marking the boy that won the first header leading to the goal was a total mismatch. Not getting another player across to stop them taking three short corners in the space of 30 seconds was stupid as well. They’re bigger issues than not leaving someone up the park (which I would do).

I don’t think it leads to us being under pressure for long periods in every game either.

[BobMilne]

Please shut up!

Go to bed!

What a load of me me me me me pish


I think where I sit after today is that I've come to accept that it's a matter of time now before Dave Gray goes. I wanted him as manager and I've supported him throughout this, but today I needed to see a carrying on of momentum in the performances we've seen since Aberdeen. The first 45 minutes was some of the worst I've seen in a long long time, we actually played worse than we did in the opening 45 of our loss to Dundee imo, we just got lucky to not be so far behind come our goal.

I know it's a bit mental to come from a 3-1 win and have less faith in the manager but the truth is I just don't see us getting actually any better now under him. A competent team rallies to a multi goal lead against us today and doesn't let us back into the contest.

I won't beg for his sacking tonight or anything like that, it would be bizarre for him to actually go this week in all honesty. But I'm not seeing the consistent upturn in performances now that makes me think the result we got today is an indication of any change in the direction of travel we're going.

I'll continue to support him as long as he's here, but regardless of what happens this season I'm not convinced anymore he's the man to lead us into next as I'm not even really sure there is a plan with him.

[McD]

Comments calling for him to be sacked after a win and what has been a decent string of results and performances for us are very very telling. Some people on here want him to fail because it would reaffirm their belief he should never have been employed in the first place.

Well done getting that lot to wake up at half time, David. A much improved second half that meant we were worthy of the three points. A poor first half. Please drop Triantis for Kwon. Keep playing Gayle.


If he is to get credit for this, surely he should also get the criticism for the players not doing that from the off, and not being able to ‘wake them up’ during the first half? He shouldn’t be waiting til halftime to make changes when they’re needed

[Donegal Hibby]

There wasn’t much control from us, Ross County dominated possession after we scored the 2nd and we managed to get a 3rd as the piled everyone forward.

We had 58% possession . 19 shots with 7 on target to their 13 with 4 on target …

It wasn’t pretty today though we got the job done which was the ultimate goal , how we done it didn’t really matter as we just needed to win at all costs... we have played a lot better and drawn or even lost this season .

Think we should just enjoy the fact we won and have moved up the table tonight 👍

GGTTH 🇳🇬

[GreenCastle]

I’m happy we won today.

I’m happy for Gray too.

Just good to see fans happy leaving the stadium too! What a difference to a Saturday night when Hibs win.

Definitely a few fair points..losing a goal after 2 mins was ridiculous. They had an early cross - the keeper made a great save then goal 1-0. Could easily have been 2-0 not long after.

Corner setup was a shambles - hybrid marking (zonal and man to man) but few things..keeper rarely catches a cross - it was 2v1 or even 3v2 often and Cadden and others were so slow to react - happened several times and would be surprised to see others try exploit that - basically allowing a free cross into the box.

The tactics - felt Cowies tactics were better than Gray first half with flooding the midfield. Newell and Triantis don’t help themselves at times but even the centre backs sometimes gave them bad passes under pressure.

We need a new GK still as much as Smith has improved.

We still leak too many cheap goals. Better defenders needed - and now have 2 injuries to our centre backs also.

Centre midfield continues to be an issue with Newell doing some good things but then still not doing enough for me at times. I still think this team will never fully progress unless we replace him.

We need a finisher to get onto these 100s of crosses we put into box and we need more speed and energy in the team. At times we just look slow and unfit.

The transfer window will be interesting to see what they add as some of the starters will have drop out.

The most important thing today was the win - this season is all about points and staying up.

Top 6 is gone but as bad as it sounds that was an important 3 points against a relegation rival today.

[CapitalGreen]

We had 58% possession . 19 shots with 7 on target to their 13 with 4 on target …

It wasn’t pretty today though we got the job done which was the ultimate goal , how we done it didn’t really matter as we just needed to win at all costs... we have played a lot better and drawn or even lost this season .

Think we should just enjoy the fact we won and have moved up the table tonight 👍

GGTTH 🇳🇬

It’s possible to be happy with the result and unhappy with the performance, the two positions are not mutually exclusive. Getting the 3 points today was good and much needed but if we are to continue getting 3 points in the future we will need much better performances.

[Jock O]

The goal right on half time completely changes things.

I thought the atmosphere was strange today. The crowd aren’t being fooled by it. There was a big noise when the third went in and it was just pure relief. But it’s not often you’ll score with the last touch of the first half and still get booed off by a sizeable number of the crowd!

I actually think that says more about the fans current nerves and lack of patience from fans than anything to do with todays game, it wasn't pretty I agree but not sure many fans would normally boo the team off for it, having just scored a very good goal. I always stick by the fact its just not helpful for anyone. The first half the whole Hibs team, apart from Newell and Youhan interestingly, looked a bag of nerves. The fact this was in reality probably the highest pressure game of the season so far showed dreadfully in the first half, along with a couple of players who have been better in recent weeks having their worst games in first half in Nicky Cadden and Rocky. It just was overall a horrible nervy atmosphere, and spilled over into crowds albeit I suspect that was due a resigned acceptance of the inevitability of our fate that was wafting through the ground after losing a bad goal and the mistake riddled first half.

But none of that came to pass, the second half was better, still too many mistakes and nervy at times especially after the 2nd goal, but I really think all the players knew the result today was almost life or death, in football terms obviously, and it showed, and they gritted their teeth and got there. Completely deserved winners in my mind. Everyone seems to think we should batter Ross County out of site, not many teams outside top two have so far, you need to dig and grit your teeth and fight against their physicality. We did today, it needs to keep improving but then we know that. Maybe just give them a bit credit for job done today and a but breathing space to consider next one.

[Jock O]

Sadly I think the likes of Triantis & Newell are Grays “non negotiables” and will play regardless of form.

What was wrong with Newell's performance today? Specifically?

[greenlex]

What was wrong with Newell's performance today? Specifically?
His first touch seemed to be about the half hour mark. He’s meant to be our leader.

[Brooster]

What was wrong with Newell's performance today? Specifically?

Where do we start?

[CapitalGreen]

What was wrong with Newell's performance today? Specifically?

As primary playmaker he should be making himself available to receive the ball from the defence, he hardly did that today.

[GreenCastle]

What was wrong with Newell's performance today? Specifically?

His sitter for 2nd week in a row..

His pass straight out of play or was that Rocky?

Going missing for parts of the game in a key area ?

He had a few nice touches and a shot which was reasonably close first half but he’s still not what we need to move forward.

[ChuckNor]

A real snobbery going on here tonight. We shouldn’t be expecting Ross County to come down Edinburgh and get their tummy tickled. They’re a solid premiership side at this point. Beat Motherwell (who are 4th somehow) 2-1 recently enough.

[hibsbollah]

Do you realise if everyone is in our own box defending corners and we manage to clear it, the opposition gets possession and the onslaught continues?

It's nonsensical and a big reason we are under the cosh for long periods of every game.


I’m not sure youre right about this. Watching most proper teams defend corners you normally see most players in the box, with maybe only two players in the edge of the d position (or where a cdm would normally be from a restart) waiting to break if the chance presents itself. When i coached boys football i had three attacking players standing on the halfway line to keepthe attacking team bringing up big lads from the back at set pieces, but nobody does this at a decemt level, probably because its a rubbish idea, and im not a proper coach anyway :greengrin

Im fairly sure SDG has played long enough to know these sort of basics and isnt likely to be doing anything tactically way out there.

[Unseen work]

What was wrong with Newell's performance today? Specifically?

I’ve been a big fan of Newell over the years.

But he just needs to do more. I think he has alot of quality, he’s at his best imo when he plays with intensity and a bit of aggression, driving forward.

When he does that he’s a big athletic, box to mid midfielder who is capable of putting the foot in and playing great passes.

Too many times this season he’s just non existent and laborious.

[CapitalGreen]

A real snobbery going on here tonight. We shouldn’t be expecting Ross County to come down Edinburgh and get their tummy tickled. They’re a solid premiership side at this point. Beat Motherwell (who are 4th somehow) 2-1 recently enough.

They had scored 1 goal outside of Dingwall before today.

[1875M]

Whole coaching staff out their depth. O’Hara clearly injured, can barely walk. They wait 5 minutes to see if he’s ok when he’s clearly not, let us play with 10 men whilst holding on to a lead before making a sub. Stevie Wonder could’ve seen he wasn’t fit to come back on the minute he went down. Amateur hour. Get a sub warmed up and ready to come on whilst the physios are assessing him. If he’s not, send them back to sit down.

[Donegal Hibby]

It’s possible to be happy with the result and unhappy with the performance, the two positions are not mutually exclusive. Getting the 3 points today was good and much needed but if we are to continue getting 3 points in the future we will need much better performances.

We have played well in our 3 previous games which there were many different things to be positive about .. today we didn’t play well but got the result which sometimes a team needs to do .. talk of sacking the manager I think is bonkers even if some are unhappy about the performance.

[Unseen work]

Whole coaching staff out their depth. O’Hara clearly injured, can barely walk. They wait 5 minutes to see if he’s ok when he’s clearly not, let us play with 10 men whilst holding on to a lead before making a sub. Stevie Wonder could’ve seen he wasn’t fit to come back on the minute he went down. Amateur hour. Get a sub warmed up and ready to come on whilst the physios are assessing him. If he’s got, send them back to sit down.

That was a weird one. Could tell as soon as he got up he was limping and never going to be able to play on

[Jock O]

As primary playmaker he should be making himself available to receive the ball from the defence, he hardly did that today.

He did that most of the game in my eyes today, it was not his best game, but it was nowhere near his worst game. I think people are also underplaying how many times Ross County just packed the central area leaving very limited space. Good players should be able to get round that I agree, but passing was woeful, especially short passing, from a lot of players today which meant not all balls were making their target. Also at times again he was covering two positions, Hoilett was way off the pace in front of him today, apart from a couple of brief periods. I didn't watch Newell that closely today as there were an awful lot of other areas that were going wrong grabbing my attention, but would be interesting to see his stats today, although appreciate not everyone on here seems to believe in stats. Certainly would be interested to see how much ground he covered.

He really is just an easy target now.

[1875M]

What was wrong with Newell's performance today? Specifically?

He played okay. Sums up him as a footballer and explains why we’re in the mess we’re in. Decent player on his day but that’s every 1 in 5/6 games and not enough for a Hibs captain.

[B.H.F.C]

A real snobbery going on here tonight. We shouldn’t be expecting Ross County to come down Edinburgh and get their tummy tickled. They’re a solid premiership side at this point. Beat Motherwell (who are 4th somehow) 2-1 recently enough.

They’re no solid. They’re anything but solid.

They’re crap and they got what they deserved for their time wasting and approach to a large part of the game. Once we went in front they decided to start playing again. A half decent team (relative to level) would have went after us after such a good start.

[Aldo]

He did that most of the game in my eyes today, it was not his best game, but it was nowhere near his worst game. I think people are also underplaying how many times Ross County just packed the central area leaving very limited space. Good players should be able to get round that I agree, but passing was woeful, especially short passing, from a lot of players today which meant not all balls were making their target. Also at times again he was covering two positions, Hoilett was way off the pace in front of him today, apart from a couple of brief periods. I didn't watch Newell that closely today as there were an awful lot of other areas that were going wrong grabbing my attention, but would be interesting to see his stats today, although appreciate not everyone on here seems to believe in stats. Certainly would be interested to see how much ground he covered.

He really is just an easy target now.

He’s the club captain. The leader on the pitch. He should be leading by example, driving the team forward and taking responsibility.

He should be making space and demanding the ball not hiding.

It really is that simple.

[Jock O]

I’ve been a big fan of Newell over the years.

But he just needs to do more. I think he has alot of quality, he’s at his best imo when he plays with intensity and a bit of aggression, driving forward.

When he does that he’s a big athletic, box to mid midfielder who is capable of putting the foot in and playing great passes.

Too many times this season he’s just non existent and laborious.

I totally agree, and that probably sums up his time with us perfectly. I just didn't think he was anything like non existent today, I thought he was showing for the ball lots, and going forward. It didn't always work but then I also think in second half Triantis went from okay, although I seem to be alone in thinking that, to a bigger bag of nerves which meant that there was no other outball but Newell. which meant he was often hovering around Rocky to help out. I am not saying it was anywhere like his most effective game, but I think he was way ahead of everyone else in effort and digging in to get the result.

I did miss his sitter while moving seats, which I believe was a bad one.

[Jock O]

He’s the club captain. The leader on the pitch. He should be leading by example, driving the team forward and taking responsibility.

He should be making space and demanding the ball not hiding.

It really is that simple.

And I think he did today, I certainly don't remember him hiding at all today, maybe not always coming off but lots of that was as much about the people around him as it was him. As I say I genuinely just think he cops it for the complete midfields performance, which was not anything like a cohesive performance today, I do agree that.

I am not saying he was wonderful today but to make out he wasn't trying or battling today just baffles me. Maybe its me after all :-)

[Aldo]

And I think he did today, I certainly don't remember him hiding at all today, maybe not always coming off but lots of that was as much about the people around him as it was him. As I say I genuinely just think he cops it for the complete midfields performance, which was not anything like a cohesive performance today, I do agree that.

I am not saying he was wonderful today but to make out he wasn't trying or battling today just baffles me. Maybe its me after all :-)

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying Newell set the standard v Luzcern. Drive, aggression, passion. I have not seen that since then.

I expect a lot more from my Captain.

[B.H.F.C]

Whole coaching staff out their depth. O’Hara clearly injured, can barely walk. They wait 5 minutes to see if he’s ok when he’s clearly not, let us play with 10 men whilst holding on to a lead before making a sub. Stevie Wonder could’ve seen he wasn’t fit to come back on the minute he went down. Amateur hour. Get a sub warmed up and ready to come on whilst the physios are assessing him. If he’s not, send them back to sit down.

Kwon was ready to come on, don’t know if he was possibly coming on for someone else initially. O’Hora should never have been off the park without someone coming on. He’s at fault as well though, should have just sat on his arse and pretended he couldn’t walk. We ended up playing for a couple of minutes with 10 which was absolutely ridiculous at that point in the game. Even when Kwon was eventually came on, Samson needed to stop him to show him the iPad for another 30 seconds or whatever. We’re nowhere near sharp enough on the sidelines at reacting to things.

[JohnM1875]

Kwon was ready to come on, don’t know if he was possibly coming on for someone else initially. O’Hora should never have been off the park without someone coming on. He’s at fault as well though, should have just sat on his arse and pretended he couldn’t walk. We ended up playing for a couple of minutes with 10 which was absolutely ridiculous at that point in the game. Even when Kwon was eventually came on, Samson needed to stop him to show him the iPad for another 30 seconds or whatever. We’re nowhere near sharp enough on the sidelines at reacting to things.

Aye, Kwon was coming on, would have been for Triantis or Newell you'd imagine. O'Hora injury changed that.

[1875M]

Kwon was ready to come on, don’t know if he was possibly coming on for someone else initially. O’Hora should never have been off the park without someone coming on. He’s at fault as well though, should have just sat on his arse and pretended he couldn’t walk. We ended up playing for a couple of minutes with 10 which was absolutely ridiculous at that point in the game. Even when Kwon was eventually came on, Samson needed to stop him to show him the iPad for another 30 seconds or whatever. We’re nowhere near sharp enough on the sidelines at reacting to things.

Spot on mate. Manager should be screaming at the side letting people know what’s going on, who’s coming on. Standing with his arms folded like he’s waiting on a bus.

[ChuckNor]

People moaning about the performance might want to have a look at our recent record against County and reflect. They’ve not been an easy side for us to play against for quite some time. Enjoy the win.

[Jock O]

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying Newell set the standard v Luzcern. Drive, aggression, passion. I have not seen that since then.

I expect a lot more from my Captain.

I do agree we haven't seen anything like that level remotely enough, which is the most frustrating thing I suppose. Mins as I like to remind my mate, much to his complete annoyance, if he played like that every week he wouldn't be here much longer. I am obviously a big fan of his but I do agree he has overall disappointed against what he seems capable of providing over too many games.

[Aldo]

I do agree we haven't seen anything like that level remotely enough, which is the most frustrating thing I suppose. Mins as I like to remind my mate, much to his complete annoyance, if he played like that every week he wouldn't be here much longer. I am obviously a big fan of his but I do agree he has overall disappointed against what he seems capable of providing over too many games.

I know but he set the standard and yes I understand that that type of performance might not happen every game but I expect more than I’ve seen for quite a while.

[Alfred E Newman]

What was wrong with Newell's performance today? Specifically?

Nothing, and that's the point. He kept well out the road.

[He's here!]

A real snobbery going on here tonight. We shouldn’t be expecting Ross County to come down Edinburgh and get their tummy tickled. They’re a solid premiership side at this point. Beat Motherwell (who are 4th somehow) 2-1 recently enough.

Any kind of win was all that mattered today. That requirement brings with it a pressure which a struggling team will find hard to handle. We got over the line, comfortably in the end and Hibs merit credit for that. It's whether we can build on it which remains open to question, but it was a big win irrespective of the opposition.

[southern hibby]

Football at the moment is hot and cold ( on a performance level more cold than hot ), however what I will say is that the team looks disjointed and SDG has taken a lot of players on that was signed under other managers.

All that being said I see a team in the last few weeks that have been making lots of chances and scoring goals.
We went to Ibrox and for long periods we matched them all over the pitch and missed a penalty.
We could have had several against hearts and yes we only drew but we had the better 3 or 4 chances.
Scored 3 against Aberdeen
Scored 3 against Motherwell
Had 9 shots on target at Parkhead, I genuinely can’t remember ever going there and making that many chances and 4 of them could easily have been goals on another day.
Scored 3 today and still didn’t play very good.
So for me I see a very attacking minded manager in the making and this is without a creative midfield player or a prolific goal scorer. Imagine if he had both of these players at his disposal. What we could actually do to teams.
Yes there is glaring mistakes being made but he is a rookie manager and I for one believe there is potential there.

GGTTH

[matty_f]

Football at the moment is hot and cold ( on a performance level more cold than hot ), however what I will say is that the team looks disjointed and SDG has taken a lot of players on that was signed under other managers.

All that being said I see a team in the last few weeks that have been making lots of chances and scoring goals.
We went to Ibrox and for long periods we matched them all over the pitch and missed a penalty.
We could have had several against hearts and yes we only drew but we had the better 3 or 4 chances.
Scored 3 against Aberdeen
Scored 3 against Motherwell
Had 9 shots on target at Parkhead, I genuinely can’t remember ever going there and making that many chances and 4 of them could easily have been goals on another day.
Scored 3 today and still didn’t play very good.
So for me I see a very attacking minded manager in the making and this is without a creative midfield player or a prolific goal scorer. Imagine if he had both of these players at his disposal. What we could actually do to teams.
Yes there is glaring mistakes being made but he is a rookie manager and I for one believe there is potential there.

GGTTH

Team today :

Smith (Gray)
Rocky
O'Hora (Gray)
Iredale (Gray
C.Cadden
Triantis (Gray)
Newell
N.Cadden (Gray)
Hoilett (Gray)
Youan
Gayle (Gray)

I'm not sure about the point about taking on a lot of other manager's players impacting today.

[Ribs1875]

Long term, David Gray is not the answer for us nor are the owners.

The season is a write off. A club like ours should be challenging and competing for European football.

[ChuckNor]

Team today :

Smith (Gray)
Rocky
O'Hora (Gray)
Iredale (Gray
C.Cadden
Triantis (Gray)
Newell
N.Cadden (Gray)
Hoilett (Gray)
Youan
Gayle (Gray)

I'm not sure about the point about taking on a lot of other manager's players impacting today.

Funny that’s the point you take from his post. The far more important point is we’ve scored 9 goals in our last four games and somehow folk are acting like we’ve been dreadful. That run includes some sitters against Celtic. It’s an impressive stat.

[B.H.F.C]

Funny that’s the point you take from his post. The far more important point is we’ve scored 9 goals in our last four games and somehow folk are acting like we’ve been dreadful. That run includes some sitters against Celtic. It’s an impressive stat.

It’s the performance over 17 games, not 4, that has people still feeling a bit negative despite a win today.

[southern hibby]

Team today :

Smith (Gray)
Rocky
O'Hora (Gray)
Iredale (Gray
C.Cadden
Triantis (Gray)
Newell
N.Cadden (Gray)
Hoilett (Gray)
Youan
Gayle (Gray)

I'm not sure about the point about taking on a lot of other manager's players impacting today.

Matty, I never said anything about other managers impacting on today’s game. I was making a point that he’s got players in his team that he has to get rid off if he wants to bring his own players in.

On a different note was that you I heard on the radio this evening?

GGTTH

[matty_f]

Matty, I never said anything about other managers impacting on today’s game. I was making a point that he’s got players in his team that he has to get rid off if he wants to bring his own players in.

On a different note was that you I heard on the radio this evening?

GGTTH
It was indeed. I think it's rare any manager gets to completely overhaul a team. Gray brought in eleven or twelve in the summer, that's more than a lot of managers will get and enough for him to field most of his players most weeks.

Apologies for reading your point wrong, though, you're right that you never said it impacted the game today.

[matty_f]

Funny that’s the point you take from his post. The far more important point is we’ve scored 9 goals in our last four games and somehow folk are acting like we’ve been dreadful. That run includes some sitters against Celtic. It’s an impressive stat.

Why's it funny that I took that point?

I thought we were awful today, I'm absolutely delighted we won but the performance was a joke. Ross County are dreadful, and we did our very best to make it an even game.

I thought we were very good against Aberdeen, Motherwell, and pretty good against Celtic. I'm fine acknowledging that whilst still saying we were murder today.

[Smartie]

Long term, David Gray is not the answer for us nor are the owners.

The season is a write off. A club like ours should be challenging and competing for European football.

I don’t disagree with either of the points in your second paragraph - but you sometimes need to take into consideration our starting position when working out how we’re getting on as regards achieving those goals.

And Gray was not coming into this season from a position of strength.

[Brooster]

And I think he did today, I certainly don't remember him hiding at all today, maybe not always coming off but lots of that was as much about the people around him as it was him. As I say I genuinely just think he cops it for the complete midfields performance, which was not anything like a cohesive performance today, I do agree that.

I am not saying he was wonderful today but to make out he wasn't trying or battling today just baffles me. Maybe its me after all :-)

Another 2/10 performance from the hide and seek champion today. He does nothing to deserve a place in our starting 11.

[Shrekko]

It saddens me to say it but we are making a huge mistake persisting with David Gray.

That 1st half was 45 minutes of pure ineptitude against a dreadful opponent who we were outplayed by.

[JohnM1875]

It saddens me to say it but we are making a huge mistake persisting with David Gray.

That 1st half was 45 minutes of pure ineptitude against a dreadful opponent who we were outplayed by.

But we won though? Performances don't keep you up. Wins do.

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. We’d all love to watch a slick attacking Hibs team. Its just not going to happen this season. Its all about staying up then taking it from there. As sad and unacceptable as it seems, its where we are.

[AdidasHibernian]

Think it's nailed on he is staying at least for another week so I ask some of the posters if we were to lose against the Sheep and Heartz, does he stay or do we finally empty him before Killie allowing someone to come in for January window?

[Donegal Hibby]

Think it's nailed on he is staying at least for another week so I ask some of the posters if we were to lose against the Sheep and Heartz, does he stay or do we finally empty him before Killie allowing someone to come in for January window?

Think it should be nailed on after recent performances and results he gets longer than a week personally … what happens if we don’t lose to them rather than looking at it negatively ..

Bring them on :flag:

[WhileTheChief..]

I think he's here until the end of the season and will be sacked if we don't finish top 6.

[Smartie]

I think he's here until the end of the season and will be sacked if we don't finish top 6.

I’d argue that’s a fairly sensible way to run a club.

Panic setting in after a round of fixtures is crazy.

Momentum can be huge in football and it definitely seemed to be working against us for a bit but we’ve found ourselves picking up the odd result, still in touching distance of the top six with a huge transfer window still ahead of us.

When preset targets aren’t hit (the same ones that have seen previous managers sacked) with a whole summer window ahead - I think that’s a reasonable time to make a change.

When there’s still so much to play for I think we back our man and back our previous decision to appoint him in the first place.

[hibee1875]

I think he's here until the end of the season and will be sacked if we don't finish top 6.

I agree altho I think he’ll be sacked if he finishes 6th. Maybe a Scottish cup run to at least a semi will save him too as long as we are at least 6th

[lucky]

It's great to win today but let's not kid ourselves on that performance was appalling. Gray is not the answer. He'll always be a hero for 2016 but we need to get rid of him asap or we are going down

[blackpoolhibs]

But we won though? Performances don't keep you up. Wins do.

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. We’d all love to watch a slick attacking Hibs team. Its just not going to happen this season. Its all about staying up then taking it from there. As sad and unacceptable as it seems, its where we are.
100% spot on.:agree:

I just dont want a manager or team that keeps us up.

[He's here!]

It’s the performance over 17 games, not 4, that has people still feeling a bit negative despite a win today.

The fact he's doubled our points tally over those four games counts for something though. Yesterday might not have been pretty but I'd have taken a 1-0 96th-minute win beforehand if offered. The reaction from some on here makes you think they're actually pissed off we won.

[The Modfather]

But we won though? Performances don't keep you up. Wins do.

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. We’d all love to watch a slick attacking Hibs team. Its just not going to happen this season. Its all about staying up then taking it from there. As sad and unacceptable as it seems, its where we are.

The fact this season is all about staying up in itself is reason why the Black Knights should be reviewing the managers position. I want to hear from them. I want them to either replace Gray ASAP and have done for months. Or for them to tell us they are more hands on now and as a result Gray is the right man.

Yesterday was a big step backwards, despite the win, IMO. The game would have been lost against any other team by half time. We hired Gray because the benefit of doing so was he knew the squad and all the mistakes he saw under the previous managers. As it is he has just continued those same failings, built the team around previous failed players, actively bringing some of them back, and created some new failings.

The fact we look like the worst coached team in the league, IMO, and play in moments is the real damning element. Being within touching distance of the top 6, while hovering in or just above the relegation places is an alarming regression from the shambles of last season. There’s not a single thing, other than survival, to look forward to Gray surviving the season and being the man trusted with a relative blank canvass in the summer, quite the opposite IMO.

[hibsbollah]

The fact this season is all about staying up in itself is reason why the Black Knights should be reviewing the managers position. I want to hear from them. I want them to either replace Gray ASAP and have done for months. Or for them to tell us they are more hands on now and as a result Gray is the right man.

Yesterday was a big step backwards, despite the win, IMO. The game would have been lost against any other team by half time. We hired Gray because the benefit of doing so was he knew the squad and all the mistakes he saw under the previous managers. As it is he has just continued those same failings, built the team around previous failed players, actively bringing some of them back, and created some new failings.

The fact we look like the worst coached team in the league, IMO, and play in moments is the real damning element. Being within touching distance of the top 6, while hovering in or just above the relegation places is an alarming regression from the shambles of last season. There’s not a single thing, other than survival, to look forward to Gray surviving the season and being the man trusted with a relative blank canvass in the summer, quite the opposite IMO.

There is also the possibility that he will learn from his mistakes on the job, like we all do? I’m not saying thats what i think will happen but with experience might come better coaching. BK might also get him working with assistant coaches and positional coaches too, so its not all about him.

[Cabbage-Patch]

He has bought himself a bit more time with the wins against Motherwell and County yesterday but the writing is still very much on the wall for me tbh. The 1st half performance was abysmal yesterday. How many times have we said that this season. Most other teams would have been out of sight by half time.

I feel the Hearts game is the key fixture. We loose that heavily and fail to see how he can continue.

The thought of Gray somehow surviving until the summer and being given a clean slate to rebuild this team terrifies me tbh

[easty]

There is also the possibility that he will learn from his mistakes on the job, like we all do? I’m not saying thats what i think will happen but with experience might come better coaching. BK might also get him working with assistant coaches and positional coaches too, so its not all about him.

If BK gave him a better coaching team around him I could get behind that.

As things stand I’d be happier to see him go than keep him, but I appreciate that the set-up right now is poor.

A coach moving into management after working under good managers would have a good chance if he’s learnt from the manager.

A new manager who’s only coached under pretty calamitous managers could do well if he has good experienced assistants and coaches helping him.

A new manager who’s only coached under pretty calamitous managers and who’s surrounded himself with inexperienced coaches is setting themselves up to fail.

[B.H.F.C]

The fact he's doubled our points tally over those four games counts for something though. Yesterday might not have been pretty but I'd have taken a 1-0 96th-minute win beforehand if offered. The reaction from some on here makes you think they're actually pissed off we won.

I can’t actually believe you are posting about people being overly negative!

[The Modfather]

There is also the possibility that he will learn from his mistakes on the job, like we all do? I’m not saying thats what i think will happen but with experience might come better coaching. BK might also get him working with assistant coaches and positional coaches too, so its not all about him.

It’s possible, granted. Given the shelf life for managers in this league is about 2 or 3 seasons with none of them able to sustain success (relative to them) from season to season. A manager working out on the job how to be a manager won’t take us very far before his natural lifecycle is up IMO

[superfurryhibby]

If BK gave him a better coaching team around him I could get behind that.

As things stand I’d be happier to see him go than keep him, but I appreciate that the set-up right now is poor.

A coach moving into management after working under good managers would have a good chance if he’s learnt from the manager.

A new manager who’s only coached under pretty calamitous managers could do well if he has good experienced assistants and coaches helping him.

A new manager who’s only coached under pretty calamitous managers and who’s surrounded himself with inexperienced coaches is setting themselves up to fail.

I would agree with most of this but add;

A new manager working with a well balanced squad of players has a better chance of making things work.

No one can reasonably argue that this squad have that balance. The deficits in goalkeeping, central defence, creative midfield play and striking have been there as a consistent throughout the season.

[Jock O]

Another 2/10 performance from the hide and seek champion today. He does nothing to deserve a place in our starting 11.

Not how I seen it, or even remotely close to how I viewed his performance yesterday, but obviously people view football through different lenses, so opinions differ. Its pretty much a moot topic now as you just seem to get extremes from both sides on some players, with fixed views regardless. However I struggle with some of the criticism like above as I am very confident when he is gone we will struggle to get better, we may get more consistent, maybe even someone more efficient in a harder working midfield. Maybe that is what we need right now but I am not so sure the replacements we get will have us charging up to third.

Its probably partly understandable because he is capable of much much more, and therefore disappoints people more, but its also partly just another player some fans won't stop till he is gone.

[hibsbollah]

If BK gave him a better coaching team around him I could get behind that.

As things stand I’d be happier to see him go than keep him, but I appreciate that the set-up right now is poor.

A coach moving into management after working under good managers would have a good chance if he’s learnt from the manager.

A new manager who’s only coached under pretty calamitous managers could do well if he has good experienced assistants and coaches helping him.

A new manager who’s only coached under pretty calamitous managers and who’s surrounded himself with inexperienced coaches is setting themselves up to fail.

I don’t admittedly know if the wider setup has changed since i last checked, but if Liam Craig ,Eddie May and Marsh are the collective coaching brains behind Gray thats just as big a problem IMO. Its been done on the cheap or as a best pals act.

[blackpoolhibs]

I would agree with most of this but add;

A new manager working with a well balanced squad of players has a better chance of making things work.

No one can reasonably argue that this squad have that balance. The deficits in goalkeeping, central defence, creative midfield play and striking have been there as a consistent throughout the season.

Gray signed 12 players in the summer, some of them had already been at the club, why would he want more of the same he'd been there behind the scenes witnessing the drivel we've all seen unfold over the last few seasons?

[easty]

I would agree with most of this but add;

A new manager working with a well balanced squad of players has a better chance of making things work.

No one can reasonably argue that this squad have that balance. The deficits in goalkeeping, central defence, creative midfield play and striking have been there as a consistent throughout the season.

We signed plenty. A whole spine of the team.

I refuse to believe the results and performances are anywhere near getting the best out if what we have. We’ve been *****.

[greenlex]

The fact he's doubled our points tally over those four games counts for something though. Yesterday might not have been pretty but I'd have taken a 1-0 96th-minute win beforehand if offered. The reaction from some on here makes you think they're actually pissed off we won.

There is quite literally not one person pissed off we won yesterday. Not one.

[superfurryhibby]

Gray signed 12 players in the summer, some of them had already been at the club, why would he want more of the same he'd been there behind the scenes witnessing the drivel we've all seen unfold over the last few seasons?

I really don't think Gray signed them. He works with what he's given, but of course he was eager for Triantis or some such drivel.

[NC1875]

Funny that’s the point you take from his post. The far more important point is we’ve scored 9 goals in our last four games and somehow folk are acting like we’ve been dreadful. That run includes some sitters against Celtic. It’s an impressive stat.

Were you at the game today ? First half especially, we were dreadful.

8th in the league, 19 points behind an Aberdeen team every bit as bad as us last season having played a game more. That’s an impressive stat.

[bingo70]

I really don't think Gray signed them. He works with what he's given, but of course he was eager for Triantis or some such drivel.

He’d be getting the credit if it was a successful transfer window and we were playing well this season.

Ultimately he’s responsible for the team, you can’t sidestep that issue by saying he’s not responsible for any bad signings so it’s not his fault, that’s just not how it works.

[Is It On....]

Gray signed 12 players in the summer, some of them had already been at the club, why would he want more of the same he'd been there behind the scenes witnessing the drivel we've all seen unfold over the last few seasons?

We can blame our manager for many things but the 12 players identified by our hopeless recruitment team, signed after he had been appointed as manager, surely can't be one of them. I am hoping that our new Bournemouth appointee will identify a better calibre of player for him to work with.

[easty]

We can blame our manager for many things but the 12 players identified by our hopeless recruitment team, signed after he had been appointed as manager, surely can't be one of them. I am hoping that our new Bournemouth appointee will identify a better calibre of player for him to work with.

I don’t like the recruitment set up, but other than the keeper situation I don’t think we were particularly wild in our summer signings.

The defenders on paper looked like potentially good signings to me.

Hoillet was good at Aberdeen so we’d have hoped for more of the same.

Myko was good enough last time that Swansea spent over a million on him.

Kwon had apparently had a good loan spell at St Mirren.

Bowie looks a talent.

Triantis splits opinions. I thought he was crap last season and we’re seeing much of the same. A central defender who couldnae defend so got moved into midfield out the way. Expectation is that he’ll protect the defence but he still looks like he cannae defend very well.

Recruitment failed to bring in the attacking creative mid we desperately needed (McCowan saga).

[eastmainsmsh]

I really don't think Gray signed them. He works with what he's given, but of course he was eager for Triantis or some such drivel.

Reckon Same hopefully DG can get his own say in Jan window

[Springbank]

If BK gave him a better coaching team around him I could get behind that.

As things stand I’d be happier to see him go than keep him, but I appreciate that the set-up right now is poor.

A coach moving into management after working under good managers would have a good chance if he’s learnt from the manager.

A new manager who’s only coached under pretty calamitous managers could do well if he has good experienced assistants and coaches helping him.

A new manager who’s only coached under pretty calamitous managers and who’s surrounded himself with inexperienced coaches is setting themselves up to fail.

This is the key for me

Take defending Corners yesterday

It was almost cruelly embarassing for hibs coaches

* all 11 back
* yet every corner offered County a 1 v 3 advantage for a short corner (insanity)
* and we offered a 3 v 1 advantage to County at our back post

That's a guaranteed shot (from the short corner overload) or a free header at the back post.

All 11 back and we still offer 2 ways to score.

That's horrific

If Eddie May, Craig Samson & Liam Craig were doing that with Leith Athletics under 14s I'd be asking them to go on better courses

[HIBS NUTS]

In the first half, I thought the team was all over the place, especially in defence, at one point county had a free kick and launched a ball central, I counted a line of 7 players, and one county forward, the ball was headed into midfield, and obviously picked up by county.
At corners, county constantly played short , were we only had one players short.
Defending long corners, were we don’t have an out ball, ever.

[Cabbage-Patch]

If folk think the coaching team will get replaced and Gray remain in place then your deluded. He hand picked these guys and no manager worth thier salt would surely stand by and let thier pals get sacked over them. What does thay say about him?

I don't care what anyone says the players this season are the most poorly coached of any of the previous regimes going back to Heckingbottom. I quite often look at the touchline during games and the most vocal of all the coaches seems to be Samson. What business does a goalie coach have issuing instructions to outfield players?

Make no mistake this coaching team will see us fighting relegation all season. We may survive we may not but I personally think we are on a hiding to nothing with these coaches

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I can’t actually believe you are posting about people being overly negative!

🤭

[hibeerealist]

Not how I seen it, or even remotely close to how I viewed his performance yesterday, but obviously people view football through different lenses, so opinions differ. Its pretty much a moot topic now as you just seem to get extremes from both sides on some players, with fixed views regardless. However I struggle with some of the criticism like above as I am very confident when he is gone we will struggle to get better, we may get more consistent, maybe even someone more efficient in a harder working midfield. Maybe that is what we need right now but I am not so sure the replacements we get will have us charging up to third.

Its probably partly understandable because he is capable of much much more, and therefore disappoints people more, but its also partly just another player some fans won't stop till he is gone.

We will struggle to get better, we are in serious bother if that has any credence. JN is not someone we will struggle to replace in fact many of us cannot wait to see the back of him. I really struggle to see what the JN fan dans see in him.

[JohnM1875]

I don’t admittedly know if the wider setup has changed since i last checked, but if Liam Craig ,Eddie May and Marsh are the collective coaching brains behind Gray thats just as big a problem IMO. Its been done on the cheap or as a best pals act.

Marshall isn't on the coaching team. He's our technical performance manager, a role we created to keep him at the club. Yeah, I've no idea why either.

[Albahibs]

We will struggle to get better, we are in serious bother if that has any credence. JN is not someone we will struggle to replace in fact many of us cannot wait to see the back of him. I really struggle to see what the JN fan dans see in him.

I personally rate Joe. We all know that it has been the midfield department in particular where we've really struggled, over the last years, but Joe is one player that I would hope that we hold onto. We need an overhaul of the entire squad come the end of this season, and there will be a large number of departures, and replacements. There has been a significant improvement in performances lately, and picked up much needed points. I recognise that the performance yesterday wasn't brilliant, but for me, it was all about winning. How many times, have we played really well but failed to win. Winning ugly against teams like Ross County, who are a bit of a bogey team for us, shows character, resilience, and bottle. Delighted with all three points yesterday.

[CentreLine]

I don’t like the recruitment set up, but other than the keeper situation I don’t think we were particularly wild in our summer signings.

The defenders on paper looked like potentially good signings to me.

Hoillet was good at Aberdeen so we’d have hoped for more of the same.

Myko was good enough last time that Swansea spent over a million on him.

Kwon had apparently had a good loan spell at St Mirren.

Bowie looks a talent.

Triantis splits opinions. I thought he was crap last season and we’re seeing much of the same. A central defender who couldnae defend so got moved into midfield out the way. Expectation is that he’ll protect the defence but he still looks like he cannae defend very well.

Recruitment failed to bring in the attacking creative mid we desperately needed (McCowan saga).

I’m a bit more on the other side of that Trianis opinion. His contribution to our first goal was sublime. Anticipated and intercepted a pass to a county player, more or less on our 18yd line. Passed through midfield s made himself available for the return. Then played an inch perfect ball to Hoillet who completed the picture with the cross that Gayle directed in.
I’d like to see more of that but we have a tendency to bypass our midfield which means they look anonymous. When we click we can be very good, just not often enough.

[The Modfather]

Marshall isn't on the coaching team. He's our technical performance manager, a role we created to keep him at the club. Yeah, I've no idea why either.

I thought I’d read that Marshall eventually wants to be a DOF/Sporting Director. With that in mind I’ve always assumed we made up the role so he could essentially do a fast tracked apprenticeship and work towards being a Sporting Director himself, whether here or elsewhere. Another appointment because “we need good people at the club” (or whatever Mackays actual quote was about Marshall) and it’s probably a better appointment for Marshall than it is for Hibs.

[Iain G]

Marshall isn't on the coaching team. He's our technical performance manager, a role we created to keep him at the club. Yeah, I've no idea why either.

He is a very experienced ex professional footballer at club and international level, seems to have been a good influence as a senior pro and maybe we want to keep good people with the right attitude and work ethic at the club? Just a thought and it's not a. Ig leap of imagination as to why we wanted to keep him in the building

[JohnM1875]

He is a very experienced ex professional footballer at club and international level, seems to have been a good influence as a senior pro and maybe we want to keep good people with the right attitude and work ethic at the club? Just a thought

Mackay gave an interview to HibsTV saying there wouldn't be any jobs for the boys (or words to those effect) appointments before creating a role to keep Marshall at the club.

[The Modfather]

He is a very experienced ex professional footballer at club and international level, seems to have been a good influence as a senior pro and maybe we want to keep good people with the right attitude and work ethic at the club? Just a thought and it's not a. Ig leap of imagination as to why we wanted to keep him in the building

If we want to keep good people with the right attitude and work ethic at the club wouldn’t a less senior role be more appropriate? Can we not keep these ex pro’s on as ambassadors or suchlike rather than rookies doing a new job for the first time. Get the best and most qualified person for the role. All our back room appointments were either doing the role for the first time, already in the building, getting a promotion to do the role and had the fact they were cheap to hire in common.

[EskbankHibby]

This is the key for me

Take defending Corners yesterday

It was almost cruelly embarassing for hibs coaches

* all 11 back
* yet every corner offered County a 1 v 3 advantage for a short corner (insanity)
* and we offered a 3 v 1 advantage to County at our back post

That's a guaranteed shot (from the short corner overload) or a free header at the back post.

All 11 back and we still offer 2 ways to score.

That's horrific

If Eddie May, Craig Samson & Liam Craig were doing that with Leith Athletics under 14s I'd be asking them to go on better courses

Corner thing was driving me insane yesterday, whole stadium could see it

[calumb]

Corner thing was driving me insane yesterday, whole stadium could see it

Absolutely, Gray was basically allowing them to come and have a go at us. Shocking he couldn't see that and makes you wonder what else he misses.

[Docker]

This is the key for me

Take defending Corners yesterday

It was almost cruelly embarassing for hibs coaches

* all 11 back
* yet every corner offered County a 1 v 3 advantage for a short corner (insanity)
* and we offered a 3 v 1 advantage to County at our back post

That's a guaranteed shot (from the short corner overload) or a free header at the back post.

All 11 back and we still offer 2 ways to score.

That's horrific

If Eddie May, Craig Samson & Liam Craig were doing that with Leith Athletics under 14s I'd be asking them to go on better courses


I thought we brought big problems on ourselves yesterday with this stupid defensive formation at corners. We seemed to be doing a zonal thing inside the six yard box with four defenders, with the rest of the players 1v1. At their goal, look at the line of players we have in the 6 yard box ball watching when the ball goes in(Elie watching the game instead of his man as well!).
Hope the coaches try something different before next week……..maybe man for man at corners and win your battle!!!!

[A Hi-Bee]

This is the key for me

Take defending Corners yesterday

It was almost cruelly embarassing for hibs coaches

* all 11 back
* yet every corner offered County a 1 v 3 advantage for a short corner (insanity)
* and we offered a 3 v 1 advantage to County at our back post

That's a guaranteed shot (from the short corner overload) or a free header at the back post.

All 11 back and we still offer 2 ways to score.

That's horrific

If Eddie May, Craig Samson & Liam Craig were doing that with Leith Athletics under 14s I'd be asking them to go on better courses

15 times as well, they got twice as many corners, and we looked all over the place every time. Sorry but Dave Gray is not the answer and the so called coaching team needs to go as well. Listening to Samson and Gray whistling at players in the second half was like being at the sheep dug trials.

[Iain G]

If we want to keep good people with the right attitude and work ethic at the club wouldn’t a less senior role be more appropriate? Can we not keep these ex pro’s on as ambassadors or suchlike rather than rookies doing a new job for the first time. Get the best and most qualified person for the role. All our back room appointments were either doing the role for the first time, already in the building, getting a promotion to do the role and had the fact they were cheap to hire in common.

We don't really know what his day to day job involves, an ambassador is a nothing token role. Marshall seems to want to take his career in this direction and am sure it was said he had been studying and whatever it takes to get the experience. Maybe he is a good fit?! And it's not necessarily that senior a role, just has a nice job title.

We keep saying we want good football people running Hibs and we have one here in place.

[A Hi-Bee]

We don't really know what his day to day job involves, an ambassador is a nothing token role. Marshall seems to want to take his career in this direction and am sure it was said he had been studying and whatever it takes to get the experience. Maybe he is a good fit?! And it's not necessarily that senior a role, just has a nice job title.

We keep saying we want good football people running Hibs and we have one here in place.

Do, we know what his job/role is?

[Iain G]

Do, we know what his job/role is?

No and that's part of the point! People being all "jobs for the boys" when we are not clear on what his role is 😁

[JohnM1875]

No and that's part of the point! People being all "jobs for the boys" when we are not clear on what his role is 😁

Its the very definition of jobs for the boys. He wasn't interviewed and was given a job for a role we created.

[The Modfather]

We don't really know what his day to day job involves, an ambassador is a nothing token role. Marshall seems to want to take his career in this direction and am sure it was said he had been studying and whatever it takes to get the experience. Maybe he is a good fit?! And it's not necessarily that senior a role, just has a nice job title.

We keep saying we want good football people running Hibs and we have one here in place.

Maybe he is a good fit. Maybe each of the summer appointments, who were already at the club, friends with the chairman, here previously and cheap to appoint were also good fits (Mackay, Gray, Marshall, Craig, May, Samson). Maybe the struggles this season are despite all the good fits and good football people we appointed.

[CapitalGreen]

Its the very definition of jobs for the boys. He wasn't interviewed and was given a job for a role we created.

How do you know he wasn’t interviewed?

[JohnM1875]

How do you know he wasn’t interviewed?

Was told by someone I trust. The role was created to keep him at the club. No interview process. Which is why I've had such an issue with it from the off. Really unprofessional.

[CapitalGreen]

Was told by someone I trust. The role was created to keep him at the club. No interview process. Which is why I've had such an issue with it from the off. Really unprofessional.

Did the someone you trust also tell you he was already involved in non-playing activities at the club before he hung up his boots/gloves?

[A Hi-Bee]

Did the someone you trust also tell you he was already involved in non-playing activities at the club before he hung up his boots/gloves?

Think he was involved in non-playing activates while in goals as well at times.
:greengrin

[JohnM1875]

Did the someone you trust also tell you he was already involved in non-playing activities at the club before he hung up his boots/gloves?

They didn't need to tell me that. Was common knowledge to be fair.

Anyway, you think its fine, I don't. We’re never going to agree on it, so i’ll stop going on about it in a thread about Gray.

[HoboHarry]

Its the very definition of jobs for the boys. He wasn't interviewed and was given a job for a role we created.

It happens everywhere and it's nothing to do with jobs for the boys. Any business is entitled to offer better working conditions to an employee they value in order to keep him/her. Similar also to an employee quitting and the employer making a counter offer to keep them usually with an improved deal. Nothing unprofessional about looking after your business by trying hard to keep valued employees.

[ChuckNor]

Why's it funny that I took that point?

I thought we were awful today, I'm absolutely delighted we won but the performance was a joke. Ross County are dreadful, and we did our very best to make it an even game.

I thought we were very good against Aberdeen, Motherwell, and pretty good against Celtic. I'm fine acknowledging that whilst still saying we were murder today.

When was the last time we looked good against Ross County? They spoil games against most opponents. Look at our recent record against them, it is abysmal. The fact we won, had more clear cut chances, more possesion etc etc means we deservedly beat them. A joke would’ve been losing today. We didn’t. A bad first 35 minutes that people are allowing to cloud an otherwise fine win.

[ChuckNor]

Were you at the game today ? First half especially, we were dreadful.

8th in the league, 19 points behind an Aberdeen team every bit as bad as us last season having played a game more. That’s an impressive stat.

First half was unacceptable, well the first 35 minutes more so. After that we took control. Don’t let that horendous start cloud your judgement. We’ve struggled against Ross County in recent times. We’ve made it hard to beat them in the past and not been scrambling to say “sack the manager” afterwards. He’s won.

[Jock O]

We will struggle to get better, we are in serious bother if that has any credence. JN is not someone we will struggle to replace in fact many of us cannot wait to see the back of him. I really struggle to see what the JN fan dans see in him.


I probably should have added without blowing our existing budget at end of statement, and reasonably confident that will be proven right.

[superfurryhibby]

He’d be getting the credit if it was a successful transfer window and we were playing well this season.

Ultimately he’s responsible for the team, you can’t sidestep that issue by saying he’s not responsible for any bad signings so it’s not his fault, that’s just not how it works.

I'm not aware that I did say that?

However, I think overall that this is a pretty grim squad to work with and would doubt very much whether Gray knew who many of these guys were before they were signed. Had he really identified and targeted guys like Bursik, Smith, Ekpiteta, O'Hora, Gayle (he would have at least heard of him)?

If we were playing well then Gray would be credited with getting the best out of the players and our transfer committee would have seen to have done it's job. As it, no one seriously believes these guys are much better than results suggest?

I think more experienced managers may well have accumulated a few more points from the same mob, but we appointed a rookie and a rookie assistant, alongside a rookie Director of Football and a rookie doing whatever David Marshall is meant to be doing. That and a bunch of crap signings isn't really working in Gray's favour?

[NC1875]

First half was unacceptable, well the first 35 minutes more so. After that we took control. Don’t let that horendous start cloud your judgement. We’ve struggled against Ross County in recent times. We’ve made it hard to beat them in the past and not been scrambling to say “sack the manager” afterwards. He’s won.

We have struggled against them recently yeah. But we were terrible 1st half and any half decent team would’ve been out of sight at half time.

I’m not calling for him to be sacked after we’ve won. But the next loss and we’ll be back pouring over his obvious failings as a manager.

It’s just papering over the cracks imo.

[Unseen work]

We have struggled against them recently yeah. But we were terrible 1st half and any half decent team would’ve been out of sight at half time.

I’m not calling for him to be sacked after we’ve won. But the next loss and we’ll be back pouring over his obvious failings as a manager.

It’s just papering over the cracks imo.

This is my main concern, that we never go on a good enough run to get into the top 6 for example

I think we’ll get the odd win, relieve some pressure and then struggle.

Aberdeen, Hearts, Killie, St Johnstone and Rangers coming up in that order.

He needs to get a run going.

[He's here!]

I can’t actually believe you are posting about people being overly negative!

Yeh, fair point :-)

[worcesterhibby]

This is my main concern, that we never go on a good enough run to get into the top 6 for example

I think we’ll get the odd win, relieve some pressure and then struggle.

Aberdeen, Hearts, Killie, St Johnstone and Rangers coming up in that order.

He needs to get a run going.

9 points incoming :greengrin:greengrin

[NC1875]

9 points incoming :greengrin:greengrin

Hopefully 🤞

[K Kay]

My thoughts are we have too many of the same player in the team. Not all play every game but if you look at the players who play wide we have Boyle, Youan, the Cadden’s Hoillett and Obita. Bowie plays there and he uses Miller in that role too, all either wingers or wing backs or wingers that are now wing backs. We have more numbers 8’s than I had on my last sudoku and play a centre half in midfield. Even the goalies are the same, a couple of flappers that wouldn’t get a cock and a hen down the links ( the aulder guys know). For me this window is imperative we splash the cash or we could be in the 💩 when push comes to shove.
We all want David to succeed but he’s trying to push a barrow uphill with the team and tactics he’s using.
Anyway, onwards and upwards hopefully.

[B.H.F.C]

This is my main concern, that we never go on a good enough run to get into the top 6 for example

I think we’ll get the odd win, relieve some pressure and then struggle.

Aberdeen, Hearts, Killie, St Johnstone and Rangers coming up in that order.

He needs to get a run going.

Rangers game will look after itself but we need to get a good number of points from the games before that. Minimum of 7 points needed from those 4 games for me (as long as it doesn’t include a defeat at Tynecastle). Think that would have us reasonably clear of the relegation places but would probably need more to be making up ground on top six.

[Broxburn Greens]

9 points incoming :greengrin:greengrin

Would be an excellent return, hoping for 7 though as a minimum from the 1st 4 on that list

[Hibernia&Alba]

Four games ago I said we should make the change immediately, and I don’t think SDG could have complained had that happened. However, the board stood by him and have been somewhat vindicated, with seven points from twelve. It would therefore be harsh to sack him now, when results are improving. At the very least SDG has surely earned himself more time to prove he can do the job long term. It’s very close down at the bottom: suddenly we are ninth, though only two points from bottom place. We will just have to see how it goes over the next couple of months. SDG is learning management on the job, which must be very tough and certainly isn’t ideal; it requires he learns very quickly.

We will soon know whether the recent improvement is sustainable and we can make a judgement from there. I really hope SDG proves me wrong, and I will gladly say I panicked too early. After such a terrible start to the season, making sure we are safe from the drop is the first aim. I do think we will achieve that, and SDG needs to get us there asap.

[Ozyhibby]

Four games ago I said we should make the change immediately, and I don’t think SDG could have complained had that happened. However, the board stood by him and have been somewhat vindicated, with seven points from twelve. It would therefore be harsh to sack him now, when results are improving. At the very least SDG has surely earned himself more time to prove he can do the job long term. It’s very close down at the bottom: suddenly we are ninth, though only two points from bottom place. We will just have to see how it goes over the next couple of months. SDG is learning management on the job, which must be very tough and certainly isn’t ideal; it requires he learns very quickly.

We will soon know whether the recent improvement is sustainable and we can make a judgement from there. I really hope SDG proves me wrong, and I will gladly say I panicked too early. After such a terrible start to the season, making sure we are safe from the drop is the first aim. I do think we will achieve that, and SDG needs to get us there asap.

Don’t think we are at the vindicated stage yet but he has earned himself more time. He still has very little room for error unfortunately. He has to limp into January and hope we can bring in some quality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[B.H.F.C]

Four games ago I said we should make the change immediately, and I don’t think SDG could have complained had that happened. However, the board stood by him and have been somewhat vindicated, with seven points from twelve. It would therefore be harsh to sack him now, when results are improving. At the very least SDG has surely earned himself more time to prove he can do the job long term. It’s very close down at the bottom: suddenly we are ninth, though only two points from bottom place. We will just have to see how it goes over the next couple of months. SDG is learning management on the job, which must be very tough and certainly isn’t ideal; it requires he learns very quickly.

We will soon know whether the recent improvement is sustainable and we can make a judgement from there. I really hope SDG proves me wrong, and I will gladly say I panicked too early. After such a terrible start to the season, making sure we are safe from the drop is the first aim. I do think we will achieve that, and SDG needs to get us there asap.

He’s still at the point where he’s one game away from disaster again. Two games in the next week at places we don’t win very often but we desperately need points. And we can’t lose at Tynecastle, we just can’t.

We need to get a good return of points over the next four games to try and get away from trouble. We need to be in a position where you’re not looking at losing one game and ending up back in the bottom two. That’s the only way the noise will start to quieten down.

[Hibernia&Alba]

He’s still at the point where he’s one game away from disaster again. Two games in the next week at places we don’t win very often but we desperately need points. And we can’t lose at Tynecastle, we just can’t.

We need to get a good return of points over the next four games to try and get away from trouble. We need to be in a position where you’re not looking at losing one game and ending up back in the bottom two. That’s the only way the noise will start to quieten down.

Agreed. He’s far from safe as manager; he’s earned some additional time via recent results. We need to see signs of continuous improvement and to create daylight between ourselves and the bottom two places. We remain in a precarious position, which needs to change. It remains jury out.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He’s still at the point where he’s one game away from disaster again. Two games in the next week at places we don’t win very often but we desperately need points. And we can’t lose at Tynecastle, we just can’t.

We need to get a good return of points over the next four games to try and get away from trouble. We need to be in a position where you’re not looking at losing one game and ending up back in the bottom two. That’s the only way the noise will start to quieten down.

Agree. Things have picked up, but that can be very quickly undone over the next 2 games. 2 defeats for example would be 3 defeats from 4 and likely see us bottom again.

Hopefully it doesn’t come to that, but he’s far from being out the woods.

[Donegal Hibby]

Two tight games coming up no doubt about that though it’s not like Aberdeen looked levels above us when we played them at ER even though the league suggests they are .. hertz looked ***** against Killie and derbies are generally tight matches . We might lose both though I don’t think it’s beyond us to do well in them either ….


David Grays Green and white army :flag:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Two tight games coming up no doubt about that though it’s not like Aberdeen looked levels above us when we played them at ER even though the league suggests they are .. hertz looked ***** against Killie and derbies are generally tight matches . We might lose both though I don’t think it’s beyond us to do well in them either ….


David Grays Green and white army :flag:

Both being away makes them two of our our hardest fixtures. Hearts look terrible, but all know our record at that dump. Guaranteed it will be the one game when they look like title contenders. That said, we really should be going there thinking we can beat such a poor Hearts side. Two big tests.

[Donegal Hibby]

Both being away makes them two of our our hardest fixtures. Hearts look terrible, but all know our record at that dump. Guaranteed it will be the one game when they look like title contenders. That said, we really should be going there thinking we can beat such a poor Hearts side. Two big tests.

Both will I’d imagine be favourites with home advantage and tbh I’d bite the hand off anyone if they offered me a point at Aberdeen which would set us up nicely going into the derby which could go anyway .. they will be well up for it alright and might play like title contenders though as long as its championship contenders.

Let’s not forget if they draw or even lose to St Johnstone and we score first at tiny it’s possible the atmosphere ( not that there’s much a one there) could turn toxic…

Last thought on it is how would folk feel on here if we drew both games and won our next one ? Honestly I’d be happy enough with five points from nine in truth .

[Hibernia&Alba]

Both will I’d imagine be favourites with home advantage and tbh I’d bite the hand off anyone if they offered me a point at Aberdeen which would set us up nicely going into the derby which could go anyway .. they will be well up for it alright and might play like title contenders though as long as its championship contenders.

Let’s not forget if they draw or even lose to St Johnstone and we score first at tiny it’s possible the atmosphere ( not that there’s much a one there) could turn toxic…

Last thought on it is how would folk feel on here if we drew both games and won our next one ? Honestly I’d be happy enough with five points from nine in truth .

Two draws and win from the next three would be a good return, given the fixtures involved.

[Donegal Hibby]

Two draws and win from the next three would be a good return, given the fixtures involved.

I think so too but if we picked up two points and found ourselves second bottom of the league if other results went against us would folk be supportive to Gray in the next game or want him out ? .

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think so too but if we picked up two points and found ourselves second bottom of the league if other results went against us would folk be supportive to Gray in the next game or want him out ? .

I suspect most would be happy enough with that. We have to be realistic about the squad we have. If SDG is to prove himself capable of improving results after a disastrous start, it won’t be dramatic and overnight. Away draws at Aberdeen and Hearts would/should be acceptable for most I think. Sacking him after those two draws wouldn’t make sense after keeping him in post after far worse results previously.

[blackpoolhibs]

Lose to Hearts and there will be huge cry's to get him out, and understandable in my opinion.

[Since452]

We were incredibly poor on Saturday. The performance was very worrying but we got the win so that's really the only thing that matters. If we can keep grinding out wins somehow then that will keep him in a job.

[B.H.F.C]

I suspect most would be happy enough with that. We have to be realistic about the squad we have. If SDG is to prove himself capable of improving results after a disastrous start, it won’t be dramatic and overnight. Away draws at Aberdeen and Hearts would/should be acceptable for most I think. Sacking him after those two draws wouldn’t make sense after keeping him in post after far worse results previously.

It’s funny because if we got a point at both Pittodrie and Tynecastle, I think most folk would take that. However, if we were to win at Pittodrie and lose at Tynecastle (and be a point better off in that scenario) we’d be back to meltdown. He/we cannot afford to lose at Tynecastle. It’s still just that scenario where every game has the potential to change the mood drastically.

He needs a decent points return from these four games coming up. I’d say 7 out of 12 (avoiding defeat at Tynecastle) would be reasonable. Anything more a bonus but the run cannot include a defeat there.

[Bobby's Cinema]

We were incredibly poor on Saturday. The performance was very worrying but we got the win so that's really the only thing that matters. If we can keep grinding out wins somehow then that will keep him in a job.
Needs must but at some point we have to start asking for some entertaining performances too. Scratching my eyes out on Saturday.

Despite a performance Saturday with so many misplaced passes and unforced errors, I do think another manager comes in and instantly gets more is my issue. But I also think we need to give a manager an opportunity and I would rather he got the season. He has to battle with that and start showing something more.

[J-C]

Boo hiss we've lost again and played poor, don't play great but win 3-1, both hiss we won but it was murder to watch. Small steps here, winning builds confidence and with that performances hopefully get better, some on here are never happy no matter what the score is.

[lucky]

Gray has been a massive failure so far. I reckon he's got 3 games to save his career at Hibs. If we lose the next 3 he's gone but 6/7/9 points and he's saved himself. We all want him and Hibs to be successful but so far there has been very little to show he can deliver.

[Lago]

Boo hiss we've lost again and played poor, don't play great but win 3-1, both hiss we won but it was murder to watch. Small steps here, winning builds confidence and with that performances hopefully get better, some on here are never happy no matter what the score is.
All very well talking about small steps, but unfortunately David Gray is not the the man to take the club forward, as to his choice of assistant coaches enough said.

[TrinityHFC]

All very well talking about small steps, but unfortunately David Gray is not the the man to take the club forward, as to his choice of assistant coaches enough said.

I don’t think we know that either way just now. The coaches thing seem to be personal nonsense for the sake of it.

[kentao]

Maybe we should show some patience towards a club legend in his first managerial role, Things didn't start great but he has played a round of fixtures with no Goalkeeper, some games with 10 men, some horrific individual errors, Marque signing Bowie Injured and star man Boyle losing his spark.

Things have started to improve in the last few weeks with good results against high flying Aberdeen and 4th placed Motherwell, We showed great character coming from behind to beat Ross County after a poor first half performance We are no longer bottom of the league and now only 6 points behind top 6. With the January window opening soon i am expecting things will get even better with the help of Garvan Stewart and The Black Knights. SDG now has 6 months experience in the role and looks to have found a style / formation that is starting to work. Lets give him a bit of time and see what happens.

[theonlywayisup]

Maybe we should show some patience towards a club legend in his first managerial role, Things didn't start great but he has played a round of fixtures with no Goalkeeper, some games with 10 men, some horrific individual errors, Marque signing Bowie Injured and star man Boyle losing his spark.

Things have started to improve in the last few weeks with good results against high flying Aberdeen and 4th placed Motherwell, We showed great character coming from behind to beat Ross County after a poor first half performance We are no longer bottom of the league and now only 6 points behind top 6. With the January window opening soon i am expecting things will get even better with the help of Garvan Stewart and The Black Knights. SDG now has 6 months experience in the role and looks to have found a style / formation that is starting to work. Lets give him a bit of time and see what happens.

I agree, but not because he's a club legend.

I just don't believe sacking managers at the rate we are is doing any good to building a solid platform to compete at the top end of the league, especially if there's no obvious choice to take over from SDG. Add into the mix the rubbish recruitment in recent seasons, that won't be fixed overnight by sacking managers and recruiting another, likely to be, inexperienced manager.

Yes, the season has been grim. We've only won three games, but none of our close competitors are doing any better. They've also benefited from our poor individual errors by what should be experienced professionals. Now, fingers crossed, we seem to have addressed these issues.

That said, I'm fully of the opinion that come June 2025 we'll have a new manager recruited by the Black Knights. It's important that they recruit the right manager, especially with the big changeover in players at the club. Until then, I expect SDG to keep us in the league, possibly challenging for the top-six.

[easty]

Maybe we should show some patience towards a club legend in his first managerial role, Things didn't start great but he has played a round of fixtures with no Goalkeeper, some games with 10 men, some horrific individual errors, Marque signing Bowie Injured and star man Boyle losing his spark.

Things have started to improve in the last few weeks with good results against high flying Aberdeen and 4th placed Motherwell, We showed great character coming from behind to beat Ross County after a poor first half performance We are no longer bottom of the league and now only 6 points behind top 6. With the January window opening soon i am expecting things will get even better with the help of Garvan Stewart and The Black Knights. SDG now has 6 months experience in the role and looks to have found a style / formation that is starting to work. Lets give him a bit of time and see what happens.

He’s getting plenty patience. Even folk who think he should go aren’t shouting for him to be sacked. Considering the results and performances he’s probably been afforded more patience than any manager I can remember us having.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He’s getting plenty patience. Even folk who think he should go aren’t shouting for him to be sacked. Considering the results and performances he’s probably been afforded more patience than any manager I can remember us having.

:agree:

He’s been shown a massive amount of patience by absolutely everyone. The board have given him more leeway than previous managers and there’s been absolutely no demands for him to be sacked at games etc despite him being the worst of the lot.

[easty]

I don’t think we know that either way just now. The coaches thing seem to be personal nonsense for the sake of it.

What seems “personal nonsense” about it exactly?

[Donegal Hibby]

I don’t think we know that either way just now. The coaches thing seem to be personal nonsense for the sake of it.

We don’t and we won’t unless we give him time , as to Gray’s choices in coaches they seem to be used a lot on here in a negative way even though they all in their own right have a wealth of knowledge of the game and the squad seem to have a togetherness about it .

[Lago]

We don’t and we won’t unless we give him time , as to Gray’s choices in coaches they seem to be used a lot on here in a negative way even though they all in their own right have a wealth of knowledge of the game and the squad seem to have a togetherness about it .
Some amount of hyperbole used by you in that post. 🙄

[blackpoolhibs]

Some amount of hyperbole used by you in that post. 🙄

It must be a real suprise for him, with the 8/10 transfer window last summer, and the quality coaches we brought in, plus a Rookie manager that we are struggling at Hibs?

[Lago]

It must be a real suprise for him, with the 8/10 transfer window last summer, and the quality coaches we brought in, plus a Rookie manager that we are struggling at Hibs?
Exactly

[flash]

Needs must but at some point we have to start asking for some entertaining performances too. Scratching my eyes out on Saturday.

Despite a performance Saturday with so many misplaced passes and unforced errors, I do think another manager comes in and instantly gets more is my issue. But I also think we need to give a manager an opportunity and I would rather he got the season. He has to battle with that and start showing something more.
9 goals in our last 4 games is hardly prime Bertie Auld. Saturday was a bit of a grind but the Aberdeen and Motherwell games certainly entertained me.

[Donegal Hibby]

Some amount of hyperbole used by you in that post. 🙄

Can you explain where it is ?

[Brightside]

Can you explain where it is ?

ven though they all in their own right have a wealth of knowledge of the game



They are all rookies as a management team.

[Donegal Hibby]

It must be a real suprise for him, with the 8/10 transfer window last summer, and the quality coaches we brought in, plus a Rookie manager that we are struggling at Hibs?

We’d be so much better with McInnes and his coaches right enough :rolleyes:

[Brightside]

We’d be so much better with McInnes and his coaches right enough :rolleyes:

We can want better without saying other coaches are pish tho yeh? We haven't been very good this season. Most would agree on that. We need improvements all through the club. Hopefully change will come in Jan.

[Donegal Hibby]

ven though they all in their own right have a wealth of knowledge of the game



They are all rookies as a management team.

Having a wealth of knowledge of the game surely is a help when becoming a coach in like Craig , Samson and May playing under different managers , experience of winning trophies, different leagues or having gain experience from being a coach for 3 or 5 years…

I don’t know how good or bad they are at coaching but folk making out they’re bad and Gray has got it all wrong haven’t a clue either , it’s just them guessing in truth….

Main thing is the players seem to be very much behind them which would suggest to me that maybe they’re not as bad as some are making out they are …

As to Gray appointing them , he’s went with them because he knows, trust and rates them whatever folks gripes are which is generally what you would do if you where looking for a couple of right hand men to assist you in a job ..

Only thing on here at times that’s Hyperbole is the negativity .

[Lago]

Can you explain where it is ?
From first to last word.

[Donegal Hibby]

From first to last word.

Sorry but that doesn’t explain anything .

[Badge]

We’d be so much better with McInnes and his coaches right enough :rolleyes:

Looking at the two squads who do you think has the better players?

[Wilson]

Looking at the two squads who do you think has the better players?

Not much in it? If Boyle wasn't finished and Bowie were fit then perhaps we shade it.

[The Modfather]

I agree, but not because he's a club legend.

I just don't believe sacking managers at the rate we are is doing any good to building a solid platform to compete at the top end of the league, especially if there's no obvious choice to take over from SDG. Add into the mix the rubbish recruitment in recent seasons, that won't be fixed overnight by sacking managers and recruiting another, likely to be, inexperienced manager.

Yes, the season has been grim. We've only won three games, but none of our close competitors are doing any better. They've also benefited from our poor individual errors by what should be experienced professionals. Now, fingers crossed, we seem to have addressed these issues.

That said, I'm fully of the opinion that come June 2025 we'll have a new manager recruited by the Black Knights. It's important that they recruit the right manager, especially with the big changeover in players at the club. Until then, I expect SDG to keep us in the league, possibly challenging for the top-six.

I agree generally that we need to buck the trend and back a manager for a sustained period of time. My issue is that Gray, Mackay, Marshall, Samson, Craig, May etc were appointed during the latest change in strategy by Gordon & Kensel. Where we look to have only thought about doing another re-set as cheaply as possible, spun as Scottish experience being our main driver.

I would let the Black Knights assess all the summer appointments and give them free rein to back or replace any of them. Whatever they decide to do I would be far more willing to offer time to as it’s decisions from people that know what they’re doing. It would be a big coincidence if the latest re-set was the one to address the downward spiral, in the same way that all the other resets made us worse. That despite the worst start to a season since the 70s Gordon & Kensell have actually played a blinder by getting this re-set correct at the 3rd or 4th attempt.

[matty_f]

Having a wealth of knowledge of the game surely is a help when becoming a coach in like Craig , Samson and May playing under different managers , experience of winning trophies, different leagues or having gain experience from being a coach for 3 or 5 years…

I don’t know how good or bad they are at coaching but folk making out they’re bad and Gray has got it all wrong haven’t a clue either , it’s just them guessing in truth….

Main thing is the players seem to be very much behind them which would suggest to me that maybe they’re not as bad as some are making out they are …

As to Gray appointing them , he’s went with them because he knows, trust and rates them whatever folks gripes are which is generally what you would do if you where looking for a couple of right hand men to assist you in a job ..

Only thing on here at times that’s Hyperbole is the negativity .

They might be brilliant coaches but we’re ninth in the league having just come off bottom spot. It’s hardly a ringing endorsement for their coaching skills.

[Bobby's Cinema]

9 goals in our last 4 games is hardly prime Bertie Auld. Saturday was a bit of a grind but the Aberdeen and Motherwell games certainly entertained me.
We've started to score some goals and pick up some points there's no doubt about that. I do want to stick with Gray but as I've said I do think another manager comes in and instantly gets more so not sure how to square those two things.

[Donegal Hibby]

They might be brilliant coaches but we’re ninth in the league having just come off bottom spot. It’s hardly a ringing endorsement for their coaching skills.

No , it’s not though it’s much the same as we have seen in recent seasons in which we have sacked some managers and their staff very quickly which has basically lead to us going around in circles which would suggest our problems run deeper than any manager or his staff…

I don’t know how it will workout for Gray and his staff ( nobody does ) though I have seen enough in recent games for there to be grounds for hope that they can turn it around and I include the Ross County game in that too , saying Gray isn’t the man to take this club forward and his staff are no good is really premature as we won’t know this one way or the other unless we give them more time..

Which is something I’m all for as I’m very much in the David Gray and his staff’s camp , think the team are too as they seem to have a bit of togetherness which is good also 👍

[superfurryhibby]

We've started to score some goals and pick up some points there's no doubt about that. I do want to stick with Gray but as I've said I do think another manager comes in and instantly gets more so not sure how to square those two things.


You square it by reconciling yourself to the fact that this is not a fact and that there's every chance this squad is so bad that it wouldn't make any difference who manages them :greengrin

[matty_f]

No , it’s not though it’s much the same as we have seen in recent seasons in which we have sacked some managers and their staff very quickly which has basically lead to us going around in circles which would suggest our problems run deeper than any manager or his staff…

I don’t know how it will workout for Gray and his staff ( nobody does ) though I have seen enough in recent games for there to be grounds for hope that they can turn it around and I include the Ross County game in that too , saying Gray isn’t the man to take this club forward and his staff are no good is really premature as we won’t know this one way or the other unless we give them more time..

Which is something I’m all for as I’m very much in the David Gray and his staff’s camp , think the team are too as they seem to have a bit of togetherness which is good also 👍
I’m really hopeful that they will all show themselves to be brilliant and we climb the league and be very successful under them - I would much rather see that than change it all again.

To assess their performance though, I think we need to look at the tangible stuff and use objective rather than subjective measures and at the moment they’re not showing that they’re good enough.

More time will give us more evidence and we will be better placed to say how good they are and I hope we’re back here congratulating them on a brilliant turnaround and hoping we can keep hold of them.

[superfurryhibby]

I’m really hopeful that they will all show themselves to be brilliant and we climb the league and be very successful under them - I would much rather see that than change it all again.

To assess their performance though, I think we need to look at the tangible stuff and use objective rather than subjective measures and at the moment they’re not showing that they’re good enough.

More time will give us more evidence and we will be better placed to say how good they are and I hope we’re back here congratulating them on a brilliant turnaround and hoping we can keep hold of them.

To truly assess their performance in a meaningful way, it would help if Gray and the other coaches had a decent squad of players to work with. There is no doubt in my mind that this squad is sub standard at the moment. Weaker than the one which finished a woeful season last season in 8th place.

Gray was always going to have to learn on the job and that has been happening, but we were bargain basement this summer and haven't replaced what departed with the same level of quality. It's not that much of a shock that we find ourselves in trouble at this stage of the season.

[Jock O]

I agree generally that we need to buck the trend and back a manager for a sustained period of time. My issue is that Gray, Mackay, Marshall, Samson, Craig, May etc were appointed during the latest change in strategy by Gordon & Kensel. Where we look to have only thought about doing another re-set as cheaply as possible, spun as Scottish experience being our main driver.

I would let the Black Knights assess all the summer appointments and give them free rein to back or replace any of them. Whatever they decide to do I would be far more willing to offer time to as it’s decisions from people that know what they’re doing. It would be a big coincidence if the latest re-set was the one to address the downward spiral, in the same way that all the other resets made us worse. That despite the worst start to a season since the 70s Gordon & Kensell have actually played a blinder by getting this re-set correct at the 3rd or 4th attempt.

What do you think the criteria for the Black Knights doing this would be, since their primary responsibility is Bournemouth and how teams function within the group, Foley was pretty clear about that in the initial interview. Do you think any work they do would come with an open book based on Hibs current situation? What is in that for the Black Knights? Surely their overall success criteria will always be what is most beneficial to Bournemouth rather than any individual components, which may not be actually the best path for Hibs. How do we ensure that doesn't happen?

In reality with current finance restrictions what would they be able to do differently, other than hopefully have better data and better analysis of that data to provide better players and coaching staff. Why would they not just promote from within the group, based on potential, much as Hibs did with Gray? Is there not an equivalent amount of risk to this? Better quality of players are going to cost more, and going to need to want to come here, even the assumption that Bournemouth would sign players to loan here seems flawed, as it would need to be in the interest of the player and Bournemouth? Will Dennis being the best example, he may currently view his progression will be best from getting as many games on bench or in team at Bournemouth as season progresses for a move next season. He may not want to drop down, which is what it is effectively for any player in an EPL squad, a big drop in my view, and Bournemouth cannot force him or any other player. January may reveal another Marcondes, but in effect he lost interest half way through, so that approach still represents a risk to Hibs.

I am not against the BK having strategic input to our op model, but currently not sure how it would work, or how much more of a risk it would be to Hibs which in effect, as proved at Lorient, is of no concern to Bournemouth in the long run, especially given the relatively small investment already made here, and already wasted on first evidence. At the moment I am not clear on what or why or how any extra investment would be forthcoming, so technically we would be fishing in same pool for players/managers, but hopefully with a greater depth of experience sourcing the resources. Surely that is where they can add most value currently, but giving them uncontrolled power
seems to put all the risk on Hibs.

I am genuinely interested in what changes people think we would visibly see at Hibs if they are allowed complete control of football operations?

[B.H.F.C]

To truly assess their performance in a meaningful way, it would help if Gray and the other coaches had a decent squad of players to work with. There is no doubt in my mind that this squad is sub standard at the moment. Weaker than the one which finished a woeful season last season in 8th place.

Gray was always going to have to learn on the job and that has been happening, but we were bargain basement this summer and haven't replaced what departed with the same level of quality. It's not that much of a shock that we find ourselves in trouble at this stage of the season.

On the first bit, is the sign of a good manager not getting more out of a pretty ordinary group? You’d look at the likes of St Mirren turning us over a couple of times already and finishing above us last season. Squad isn’t better than ours individually but they are better managed and a team who know what they are and what they’re doing.

I don’t think the squad is great but it’s much better than taking 15 points from 17 games and losing to Kelty Hearts.

[The Modfather]

What do you think the criteria for the Black Knights doing this would be, since their primary responsibility is Bournemouth and how teams function within the group, Foley was pretty clear about that in the initial interview. Do you think any work they do would come with an open book based on Hibs current situation? What is in that for the Black Knights? Surely their overall success criteria will always be what is most beneficial to Bournemouth rather than any individual components, which may not be actually the best path for Hibs. How do we ensure that doesn't happen?

In reality with current finance restrictions what would they be able to do differently, other than hopefully have better data and better analysis of that data to provide better players and coaching staff. Why would they not just promote from within the group, based on potential, much as Hibs did with Gray? Is there not an equivalent amount of risk to this? Better quality of players are going to cost more, and going to need to want to come here, even the assumption that Bournemouth would sign players to loan here seems flawed, as it would need to be in the interest of the player and Bournemouth? Will Dennis being the best example, he may currently view his progression will be best from getting as many games on bench or in team at Bournemouth as season progresses for a move next season. He may not want to drop down, which is what it is effectively for any player in an EPL squad, a big drop in my view, and Bournemouth cannot force him or any other player. January may reveal another Marcondes, but in effect he lost interest half way through, so that approach still represents a risk to Hibs.

I am not against the BK having strategic input to our op model, but currently not sure how it would work, or how much more of a risk it would be to Hibs, which in effect as proved at Lorient, is of no concern to Bournemouth in the long run, especially given the relatively small investment already made here, and potentially already wasted. At the moment I am not clear on what or why any extra investment would be forthcoming, so technically we would be fishing in same pool for players/managers, but hopefully with a greater depth of experience sourcing the resources. Surely that is where they can add most value currently, but giving them uncontrolled power
seems to put all the risk on Hibs.

I am genuinely interested in what changes people think we would visibly see at Hibs if they are allowed complete control of football operations?

I don’t see the Black Knights as being a cash cow or packing us with premier league level players. It’s their knowledge on how to set up, run and maintain a football (or hockey) club. The real benefit is then knowing what the most effective structure is who the best people are for each role. This will allow us to continue to spend what we do now, but spend it in a far more coherent and successful manner.

I think there’s parallels and lessons to learned from Lorient Others have read more than I have in them so feel free to correct me. I believe there was similar murmurs of Lorient not listening last season. Making strange decisions like sacking the sporting director and not replacing him, with the manager having to pick up the slack. They got relegated, which I believe but may well be wrong, made them more open to help from the Black Knights. From the outside only, they are top of the league and looking like comfortably coming straight back up. Us meanwhile, we took £6m investment in and managed to get worse.

[Jock O]

I don’t see the Black Knights as being a cash cow or packing us with premier league level players. It’s their knowledge on how to set up, run and maintain a football (or hockey) club. The real benefit is then knowing what the most effective structure is who the best people are for each role. This will allow us to continue to spend what we do now, but spend it in a far more coherent and successful manner.

I think there’s parallels and lessons to learned from Lorient Others have read more than I have in them so feel free to correct me. I believe there was similar murmurs of Lorient not listening last season. Making strange decisions like sacking the sporting director and not replacing him, with the manager having to pick up the slack. They got relegated, which I believe but may well be wrong, made them more open to help from the Black Knights. From the outside only, they are top of the league and looking like comfortably coming straight back up. Us meanwhile, we took £6m investment in and managed to get worse.

I get the sentiment, and totally agree that is what we need, fast, and also some structure around it to give us some internal stability, I think that would help everyone, including fans. I suppose I am still thinking they need some layers of Governance, but also what the targets they have for Hibs, is it performance related, hopefully, is there player targets too? Maybe worth it's own thread to see what people think, as I genuinely don't have a clear view in my head of the overall set up and the future expectations. I suspect the current happenings at Man U are worrying me also, but in reality we are light worlds away from being in the same situation.

I don't know much about Lorient either but I thought that BK had sold some of their players off and had put staff in, but in all honesty now not sure if that's just my imagination, again would be good to understand the mechanisations there, and the parallels/differences.

[Alfred E Newman]

I don’t see the Black Knights as being a cash cow or packing us with premier league level players. It’s their knowledge on how to set up, run and maintain a football (or hockey) club. The real benefit is then knowing what the most effective structure is who the best people are for each role. This will allow us to continue to spend what we do now, but spend it in a far more coherent and successful manner.

I think there’s parallels and lessons to learned from Lorient Others have read more than I have in them so feel free to correct me. I believe there was similar murmurs of Lorient not listening last season. Making strange decisions like sacking the sporting director and not replacing him, with the manager having to pick up the slack. They got relegated, which I believe but may well be wrong, made them more open to help from the Black Knights. From the outside only, they are top of the league and looking like comfortably coming straight back up. Us meanwhile, we took £6m investment in and managed to get worse.

You only have to look at the state of our chums across the city to see that large influxes of cash is no guarantee of success.

[Murphys Touch]

Looking at Black Knight's comments today - I can't see SDG getting next season.

I hope to god we hammer Hearts next week to give him something we can sing about, add to his legend. Perhaps a bit of short term quality in during the Jan window to get us out of trouble and then a bang average run in to the end of the season.

Shake hands, this is a new project. New team, 15 bang average players leave on a free - we appoint Mourinho

[Donegal Hibby]

Looking at Black Knight's comments today - I can't see SDG getting next season.

I hope to god we hammer Hearts next week to give him something we can sing about, add to his legend. Perhaps a bit of short term quality in during the Jan window to get us out of trouble and then a bang average run in to the end of the season.

Shake hands, this is a new project. New team, 15 bang average players leave on a free - we appoint Mourinho

What are the BK comments today?

[Murphys Touch]

What are the BK comments today?

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investin...lish-football/

"In March, Foley paid around £6 million for a 25% share in Hibernian, which plays in Scotland’s Premiership. By the league’s rules, his ownership is limited to less than 30%. In July, after the Edinburgh club finished a disappointing eighth, Foley told the BBC that the club had not been listening to his input.

“Lorient really wouldn’t listen to us and they got relegated, and so now they’re listening,” he said in November. “Hibs wouldn't listen and they really screwed up.”

Foley said Hibernian’s leadership ignored his advice on appointments for manager, sporting director, and other key roles. When Hibernian later came around seeking additional investment from its owners, Foley said he gave them an ultimatum: “You can dilute us, but until you start listening, we're out. So now they’re going to be listening.”

[HoboHarry]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investin...lish-football/
Link doesn't work.

[Murphys Touch]

Link doesn't work.

“ In March, Foley paid around £6 million for a 25% share in Hibernian, which plays in Scotland’s Premiership. By the league’s rules, his ownership is limited to less than 30%. In July, after the Edinburgh club finished a disappointing eighth, Foley told the BBC that the club had not been listening to his input.

“Lorient really wouldn’t listen to us and they got relegated, and so now they’re listening,” he said in November. “Hibs wouldn't listen and they really screwed up.”

Foley said Hibernian’s leadership ignored his advice on appointments for manager, sporting director, and other key roles. When Hibernian later came around seeking additional investment from its owners, Foley said he gave them an ultimatum: “You can dilute us, but until you start listening, we're out. So now they’re going to be listening.”

[HoboHarry]

It doesn’t but if you use it and type black knight in the search tool, the second article is the one the link refers to.
:aok:

[superfurryhibby]

On the first bit, is the sign of a good manager not getting more out of a pretty ordinary group? You’d look at the likes of St Mirren turning us over a couple of times already and finishing above us last season. Squad isn’t better than ours individually but they are better managed and a team who know what they are and what they’re doing.

I don’t think the squad is great but it’s much better than taking 15 points from 17 games and losing to Kelty Hearts.

Beg to differ. The squad is weaker than the one which finished 8th last season and player for player, are we really better than St Mirren? I don't watch them often enough tbf, but I do go to Hibs games and this bunch is as bad as any over the past ten years.

I do accept that a more experienced manager might have extracted more from this imbalanced mob, but it's not a given. That said, appointing a management set up full of rookies was always going to bring it's challenges. That's why I wanted McInnes in the role.

The fact that you cite Kelty Hearts, an awful result, just supports my point. A dire squad which loses to a well motivated part time outfit. Our second 11, supplemented by four current starters should always be good enough to win a match like that.

This squad needs some decent signings and the return of Bowie to avoid relegation. I recall under Calderwood that the incoming Towell, Sodje , Paalson and the return of Booth helped galvanise that equally dire squad and stave of the threat of the drop. None of them were world beaters (there was another one that came in, name evades me)|, none had great Hibs careers, but they added enough to make a difference.

All of that said, Gray remains on a shoogly peg and I very much doubt he will be Hibs manager for much longer.

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investin...lish-football/

"In March, Foley paid around £6 million for a 25% share in Hibernian, which plays in Scotland’s Premiership. By the league’s rules, his ownership is limited to less than 30%. In July, after the Edinburgh club finished a disappointing eighth, Foley told the BBC that the club had not been listening to his input.

“Lorient really wouldn’t listen to us and they got relegated, and so now they’re listening,” he said in November. “Hibs wouldn't listen and they really screwed up.”

Foley said Hibernian’s leadership ignored his advice on appointments for manager, sporting director, and other key roles. When Hibernian later came around seeking additional investment from its owners, Foley said he gave them an ultimatum: “You can dilute us, but until you start listening, we're out. So now they’re going to be listening.”

No one else concerned about Foley being so public in his criticism?

Given that Lorient and Hibs have been highlighted as not listening, does this also not indirectly imply that Foley's message perhaps wasn't well enough delivered?

[calumb]

Beg to differ. The squad is weaker than the one which finished 8th last season and player for player, are we really better than St Mirren? I don't watch them often enough tbf, but I do go to Hibs games and this bunch is as bad as any over the past ten years.

I do accept that a more experienced manager might have extracted more from this imbalanced mob, but it's not a given. That said, appointing a management set up full of rookies was always going to bring it's challenges. That's why I wanted McInnes in the role.

The fact that you cite Kelty Hearts, an awful result, just supports my point. A dire squad which loses to a well motivated part time outfit. Our second 11, supplemented by four current starters should always be good enough to win a match like that.

This squad needs some decent signings and the return of Bowie to avoid relegation. I recall under Calderwood that the incoming Towell, Sodje , Paalson and the return of Booth helped galvanise that equally dire squad and stave of the threat of the drop. None of them were world beaters (there was another one that came in, name evades me)|, none had great Hibs careers, but they added enough to make a difference.

All of that said, Gray remains on a shoogly peg and I very much doubt he will be Hibs manager for much longer.

Matt Thornhill and Martin Scott I think were signed at that time

[superfurryhibby]

Matt Thornhill and Martin Scott I think were signed at that time

Not so sure about Scott, but it was Thornhill I was thinking of.

It was still pretty grim after January, but the side picked up and gathered enough points thereafter. This squad reminds me of that lot, which were probably worse than the side that was actually relegated. That one can probably go down to the fantastic man management skills of Butcher and Malpas.

[B.H.F.C]

Beg to differ. The squad is weaker than the one which finished 8th last season and player for player, are we really better than St Mirren? I don't watch them often enough tbf, but I do go to Hibs games and this bunch is as bad as any over the past ten years.

I do accept that a more experienced manager might have extracted more from this imbalanced mob, but it's not a given. That said, appointing a management set up full of rookies was always going to bring it's challenges. That's why I wanted McInnes in the role.

The fact that you cite Kelty Hearts, an awful result, just supports my point. A dire squad which loses to a well motivated part time outfit. Our second 11, supplemented by four current starters should always be good enough to win a match like that.

This squad needs some decent signings and the return of Bowie to avoid relegation. I recall under Calderwood that the incoming Towell, Sodje , Paalson and the return of Booth helped galvanise that equally dire squad and stave of the threat of the drop. None of them were world beaters (there was another one that came in, name evades me)|, none had great Hibs careers, but they added enough to make a difference.

All of that said, Gray remains on a shoogly peg and I very much doubt he will be Hibs manager for much longer.

I don’t think it does need additions to avoid relegation. It needs to be utilised better, which it has been of late. It’s no coincidence that since we changed shape we’ve actually picked up points more regularly. We wasted far too long doing the same things week in, week out when they weren’t working.

I’m not saying the squad is brilliant but I still think it’s capable of better than what it’s shown. It’s not the worst squad in the league though, not even close IMO.

[Murphys Touch]

No one else concerned about Foley being so public in his criticism?

Given that Lorient and Hibs have been highlighted as not listening, does this also not indirectly imply that Foley's message perhaps wasn't well enough delivered?
Money talks - he’s paid his money and shout in public if he wants. Especially when not listened to

If he is to be believed - then threatening to withdraw money for them listening. Regardless how the message was delivered. Refuse to believe a billionaire businessman can’t communicate

[Paulie Walnuts]

Money talks - he’s paid his money and shout in public if he wants. Especially when not listened to

If he is to be believed - then threatening to withdraw money for them listening. Regardless how the message was delivered. Refuse to believe a billionaire businessman can’t communicate

I’d suggest if his method of communicating has lead to the club listening then his message has been perfectly delivered.

[CropleyWasGod]

Money talks - he’s paid his money and shout in public if he wants. Especially when not listened to

If he is to be believed - then threatening to withdraw money for them listening. Regardless how the message was delivered. Refuse to believe a billionaire businessman can’t communicate

I'm not sure that he could "withdraw money". The cash they have invested is in shares, so if the BK left they'd be selling those shares elsewhere.

The wider isue, if they left, would be the loss of the other advantages that they bring to the club.

[Murphys Touch]

I'm not sure that he could "withdraw money". The cash they have invested is in shares, so if the BK left they'd be selling those shares elsewhere.

The wider isue, if they left, would be the loss of the other advantages that they bring to the club.

Sorry - not withdraw but not give as much as promised. Think the quote was we asked for further investment

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry - not withdraw but not give as much as promised. Think the quote was we asked for further investment

Gotcha :aok:

[blackpoolhibs]

I don’t think it does need additions to avoid relegation. It needs to be utilised better, which it has been of late. It’s no coincidence that since we changed shape we’ve actually picked up points more regularly. We wasted far too long doing the same things week in, week out when they weren’t working.

I’m not saying the squad is brilliant but I still think it’s capable of better than what it’s shown. It’s not the worst squad in the league though, not even close IMO.

I disagree, we are pish in a pish league, and could easily be bottom this time next week, there's nothing between a load of teams at the bottom of this league, that makes it close in my opinion.

[B.H.F.C]

I disagree, we are pish in a pish league, and could easily be bottom this time next week, there's nothing between a load of teams at the bottom of this league, that makes it close in my opinion.

I agree the league is pish, just don’t think our squad is the pishest of the lot.

[blackpoolhibs]

I agree the league is pish, just don’t think our squad is the pishest of the lot.

Neither do i, but we could get into a relegation battle, in fact just now we are, thats why it's close and we are nowhere near safety.

[superfurryhibby]

Money talks - he’s paid his money and shout in public if he wants. Especially when not listened to

If he is to be believed - then threatening to withdraw money for them listening. Regardless how the message was delivered. Refuse to believe a billionaire businessman can’t communicate

Sorry, I disagree, public sermonising is a classless way to conduct your organisation's business.

I'm sure most billionaires can communicate, but maybe not sounding like an entitled prick could prove to be more effective though when negotiating with your majority partner ?

"Money is not always the answer, obviously you need resources but I think creative thinking and looking at things in a different way and developing ideas and teams that can really flourish is, I think, what made my company successful". Ron Gordon.
"

[Murphys Touch]

Sorry, I disagree, public sermonising is a classless way to conduct your organisation's business.

I'm sure most billionaires can communicate, but maybe not sounding like an entitled prick could prove to be more effective though when negotiating with your majority partner ?

"Money is not always the answer, obviously you need resources but I think creative thinking and looking at things in a different way and developing ideas and teams that can really flourish is, I think, what made my company successful". Ron Gordon.
"

Then appoints his son Head of Recruitment?

Sorry, when THE Hibs board go begging bowl out for more investment, this guy has a right to say “hang on, you took my money and ignored my input” . Not sure who the entitled prick is? The mid 30 year old who got daddy’s business or the experienced business name with numerous sporting successes behind him?

Be different if we were flying OR the Gordon’s had years of success behind them to prove they knew what they were talking about.

Classless??? Don’t see a) how and b) that matters in the slightest

[Greenwich_Hibby]

Nothing positive will happen with warring directors. Owners too stubborn, rookie manager, and squad is crap, recipe for disaster.

[The Modfather]

If Motherwell see out the win tonight they will have almost double our points having played the same number of games as us and sit in 4th. We finished above them last season.

Everyone focussed on Aberdeens freak start to the season and as a result we can’t compare with them. What about Motherwell, another example of a club turning things around over one summer. If I’ve discounted the youngsters from transfer market (be it getting promoted/loans in or out) correctly then it looks like it was 14 in and 14 out over the summer for Motherwell. Doing the same exclusions for us we were about 12 in and 12 out. Why do we need to wait various transfer windows to achieve what two other clubs that finished either side of us last season have done?

[Tyler Durden]

If Motherwell see out the win tonight they will have almost double our points having played the same number of games as us and sit in 4th. We finished above them last season.

Everyone focussed on Aberdeens freak start to the season and as a result we can’t compare with them. What about Motherwell, another example of a club turning things around over one summer. If I’ve discounted the youngsters from transfer market (be it getting promoted/loans in or out) correctly then it looks like it was 14 in and 14 out over the summer for Motherwell. Doing the same exclusions for us we were about 12 in and 12 out. Why do we need to wait various transfer windows to achieve what two other clubs that finished either side of us last season have done?

Motherwell are rubbish mate. They’re having a purple patch but nothing major we need to learn from them.

Kettlewell is similar to streaky Lee I think, doesn’t seem to draw many games.

[The Modfather]

Motherwell are rubbish mate. They’re having a purple patch but nothing major we need to learn from them.

Kettlewell is similar to streaky Lee I think, doesn’t seem to draw many games.

Wish we were capable of having those kind of purple patches. It’s churlish to try and talk down the likes of Motherwell & Dundee Utd (as is often the chat). Yes they are poor sides, but they are less poor than us and a cluster of other clubs. On a fraction of our budget.

It doesn’t take much to seperate you from the pack and be less poor than most of the rest over a short period of time. Why do we make such tough work of turning things around quickly.