Gray is out of his depth’

[truehibernian]

Changing a winning team for the Kelty game was the first red flag. Since then his in game management also mostly seems to see us end up with a worse final result. With no team looking to be as bad as Livi last year we are definitely in the mix for relegation if things don't change.

Not only that, what work has been done if any to implement real leadership and concentration levels in the last 10 minutes of games - as it’s clear we capitulate easier than most in that vital time in games. That’s on both players and management. Incredibly poor decision making in latter stages of games.

[overdrive]

This is very sad to be honest. Gray is a club legend and a decent man. He does not deserve this. This may not be the mood tonight on this board but I would stick with him for at least a further 6-8 games. We simply cannot constantly fire after a few poor results and some of the issues have been player stupidity not managerial. Today is an example and it’s cultural.

The problems lie much deeper than him. The club has an inferiority complex from top to bottom, panics, regularly fires managers but the basic lack of confidence and in my view poor executive leadership in changing that is an issue.

I am unimpressed with our CEO at a leadership level as opposed to perhaps squeezing more revenue out of the lemon. Ron G was clearly a very sincere and decent man. I have no doubt his son shares his passion but again I do not see leadership. Perhaps that’s too harsh?

Sure Gray is despite my desire he stays probably only one week from the door but he is a symptom of the problem not the cause nor the root of the problem

It’s not harsh enough. These people need to be driven out of the club. The entire Gordon family, Kensell, McPherson and Mackay are a disgrace and are a stain on the club.

[SeanWilson]

This is very sad to be honest. Gray is a club legend and a decent man. He does not deserve this. This may not be the mood tonight on this board but I would stick with him for at least a further 6-8 games. We simply cannot constantly fire after a few poor results and some of the issues have been player stupidity not managerial. Today is an example and it’s cultural.

The problems lie much deeper than him. The club has an inferiority complex from top to bottom, panics, regularly fires managers but the basic lack of confidence and in my view poor executive leadership in changing that is an issue.

I am unimpressed with our CEO at a leadership level as opposed to perhaps squeezing more revenue out of the lemon. Ron G was clearly a very sincere and decent man. I have no doubt his son shares his passion but again I do not see leadership. Perhaps that’s too harsh?

Sure Gray is despite my desire he stays probably only one week from the door but he is a symptom of the problem not the cause nor the root of the problem

Nah, that’s bonkers. Should never have been appointed, isn’t a manager and is just as culpable as the players and board. Another 6 games could see us in a position that can’t be turned around.

Having said that, I can’t see anyone turning this current atrocity around.

Can almost guarantee we cop out once again and appoint McKay.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Feels like Sauzee all over again.

[WestStandWillie]

Appreciate him taking on the role and wanting to give it a go but it’s turning sour.

The players need to take a long look at themselves because this is happening far too often.

[GreenCastle]

Changing a winning team for the Kelty game was the first red flag. Since then his in game management also mostly seems to see us end up with a worse final result. With no team looking to be as bad as Livi last year we are definitely in the mix for relegation if things don't change.

Appointing Newell as captain and not signing a good keeper and even worse back up were his first 2 mistakes.

[Unseen work]

This is very sad to be honest. Gray is a club legend and a decent man. He does not deserve this. This may not be the mood tonight on this board but I would stick with him for at least a further 6-8 games. We simply cannot constantly fire after a few poor results and some of the issues have been player stupidity not managerial. Today is an example and it’s cultural.

The problems lie much deeper than him. The club has an inferiority complex from top to bottom, panics, regularly fires managers but the basic lack of confidence and in my view poor executive leadership in changing that is an issue.

I am unimpressed with our CEO at a leadership level as opposed to perhaps squeezing more revenue out of the lemon. Ron G was clearly a very sincere and decent man. I have no doubt his son shares his passion but again I do not see leadership. Perhaps that’s too harsh?

Sure Gray is despite my desire he stays probably only one week from the door but he is a symptom of the problem not the cause nor the root of the problem

I’d say gray not subbing Newell and Triantis when on bookings is a bit naive, especially Triantis last week.

[blackpoolhibs]

SDG does not help himself, some of his subs this season have been brutal and have cost us points.

The problems are deeper than who's the manager though, the club is a shambles from the top down, and whoever is manaager would struggle.

They might have got us a couple of points more if it was someone else, but they are pissing against the wall working with those clowns above.

We are in real trouble.

[Callum_62]

This is very sad to be honest. Gray is a club legend and a decent man. He does not deserve this. This may not be the mood tonight on this board but I would stick with him for at least a further 6-8 games. We simply cannot constantly fire after a few poor results and some of the issues have been player stupidity not managerial. Today is an example and it’s cultural.

The problems lie much deeper than him. The club has an inferiority complex from top to bottom, panics, regularly fires managers but the basic lack of confidence and in my view poor executive leadership in changing that is an issue.

I am unimpressed with our CEO at a leadership level as opposed to perhaps squeezing more revenue out of the lemon. Ron G was clearly a very sincere and decent man. I have no doubt his son shares his passion but again I do not see leadership. Perhaps that’s too harsh?

Sure Gray is despite my desire he stays probably only one week from the door but he is a symptom of the problem not the cause nor the root of the problemAn untested manager with almost zero experience should simply not be our manager

If be for given someone like McInnes time to turn it around as he actually has evidence to back up what he is

David Gray does have that to fall but on so we are simply hoping we done remain bottom

Bottom of the league after 8 games is simply unacceptable - winning once in 8 with 5 defeats is incredible poor. It's been a disastrous start to the season, no doubt

Lose next week and he's really under the cosh

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[The Captain....]

Let's face it SDG is a symptom rather than the root cause of where we are.

I really hoped he'd be able to galvanise the players, support etc but I now think that's impossible with Board, ownership and terrible decision making under the Gordons.

Don't get me wrong I don't think Gray has done particularly well but with a Sunday league standard defence and a keeper who is easily the worst in the league he's got no solid foundation to build a style on. He was a last desperate throw of the dice from a despicable Board.and owner in an effort to take the heat off them. There is no solid argument that pitching a rookie manager into a squad that is a bloated mess, with a defence that looks like it was signed solely to make up the numbers was the percentage call. Time and again when the right decisions need made our collection of clowns and sycophants at Board level get it not just wrong but so far off the club lurches to an unbelievable new low.

****ing ********s at every level from the pitch, to the Board to the owner.

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[overdrive]

Johnson was sacked for less with way more managerial credit in the bank (I wanted him sacked too).

[Unseen work]

Johnson was sacked for less with way more managerial credit in the bank (I wanted him sacked too).

Johnson has been our best manager out of the last 4 by a mile too

[Trinity Hibee]

Johnson has been our best manager out of the last 4 by a mile too

You are correct and that is incredibly scary to think that he was the best of a bad bunch

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Gray is a symptom, that’s true. But when he has publicly stated that Josh Campbell is a good footballer and then proceeds to play him, he’s quite clearly out his depth as a head coach.

[SHODAN]

Gray is out of his depth but we're in the ****ing Marinara Trench right now.

[He's here!]

Think he'll be gone once we lose the derby.

That could be a humiliating experience as soon as Hearts open the scoring.

[eastmainsmsh]

The style of play has been awful. We look like we have no idea what the plan is each game .

Big Malky to blame

[GreenGray]

He has the Derby to save his job.

I’m actually also raging at the staff too.

Samson talking during the minutes applause and his constant crap instructions from the side lines.

We need one voice not several guys like Craig / Samson actually like Sunday like managers getting a word in.

Gray is struggling here - I want him to turn it around but so far it’s been a disaster and that started with Kelty.

You saw how happy Aberdeen fans were when we took Samson off their hands. They hated him and accused him of doing the same stuff. Bear in mind he’s the goalie coach, shouldn’t be anywhere near the touchline.

I would have liked to see Gray bring in some more experience for his back room staff. Liam Craig and Samson? No wonder we’re ****ed.


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[The Modfather]

It’s sad, but it’s looking more and more likely that Gray was part of the problem working under the last few managers. Not someone who could see what wasn’t working and knew how to fix it but didn’t have the power to influence the managers to do what was needed. Hibs under Gray could easily be Hibs under Maloney, Monty, or large spells under Johnson, if you didn’t know any different.

Get Dempster back with her broom to do another re-set before moving on after taking us as far as she can.

[Exuberance1875]

Pointless sacking a club legend like him when we’ve given him very little support. His squad is absolutely torture. Pep couldn’t get a tune out of most of these players

[WestStandWillie]

You saw how happy Aberdeen fans were when we took Samson off their hands. They hated him and accused him of doing the same stuff. Bear in mind he’s the goalie coach, shouldn’t be anywhere near the touchline.

I would have liked to see Gray bring in some more experience for his back room staff. Liam Craig and Samson? No wonder we’re ****ed.


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Said it before that Samson was a chancer. He was an awful keeper and he’s not much better as a goalkeeping coach. Was gutted when i’d heard he was part of Gray’s backroom staff

[Unseen work]

He never deserved the job, it really is that simple.

A game or two as interim manager spread over 4 different times does not mean you’re the answer. Someone never had any more questions in the interview? No wonder, the fans could say what’s wrong with the club. It doesn’t mean they deserve the job.

Wonder what the BK are thinking about us not listening to them and who their suggestion was

[Real Emerald]

This is very sad to be honest. Gray is a club legend and a decent man. He does not deserve this. This may not be the mood tonight on this board but I would stick with him for at least a further 6-8 games. We simply cannot constantly fire after a few poor results and some of the issues have been player stupidity not managerial. Today is an example and it’s cultural.

The problems lie much deeper than him. The club has an inferiority complex from top to bottom, panics, regularly fires managers but the basic lack of confidence and in my view poor executive leadership in changing that is an issue.

I am unimpressed with our CEO at a leadership level as opposed to perhaps squeezing more revenue out of the lemon. Ron G was clearly a very sincere and decent man. I have no doubt his son shares his passion but again I do not see leadership. Perhaps that’s too harsh?

Sure Gray is despite my desire he stays probably only one week from the door but he is a symptom of the problem not the cause nor the root of the problem

There is very many problems at our club but no matter how long we give it David Gray will unfortunately not turn this around. For a start the squad is pish and he hasn’t a clue how to use the players we do have. He will be sacked before the end of the season, anymore time he gets is only a stay if execution.

He’s the result of our failings from above though so what you do with that mess is anyone’s guess. Sad times.

[NC1875]

Pointless sacking a club legend like him when we’ve given him very little support. His squad is absolutely torture. Pep couldn’t get a tune out of most of these players

Little support ? 😂 he’s signed a whole team and we are worse.

He’s been part of how many failed back room teams ? And is now showing he played a massive part in the failures because he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

[Coco Bryce]

Pointless sacking a club legend like him when we’ve given him very little support. His squad is absolutely torture. Pep couldn’t get a tune out of most of these players

These are the players Gray wanted.

[Ozyhibby]

Gray is a symptom, that’s true. But when he has publicly stated that Josh Campbell is a good footballer and then proceeds to play him, he’s quite clearly out his depth as a head coach.

And gave Joe Newell a new contract. Clown.


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[Ozyhibby]

Pointless sacking a club legend like him when we’ve given him very little support. His squad is absolutely torture. Pep couldn’t get a tune out of most of these players

He signed half this squad?[emoji2369]


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[GreenCastle]

You saw how happy Aberdeen fans were when we took Samson off their hands. They hated him and accused him of doing the same stuff. Bear in mind he’s the goalie coach, shouldn’t be anywhere near the touchline.

I would have liked to see Gray bring in some more experience for his back room staff. Liam Craig and Samson? No wonder we’re ****ed.


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100% agree.

Add Eddie May into the mix too. Should be no where near the job.

Just listened to his post match interview on radio and he sounds totally lost.

Fine margins etc - it’s just all the same old crap.

Aberdeen showing what a decent manager can do with good recruitment while we are getting worse every week.

[Wull]

I think it would be best all round to part ways this weekend, the thought of sacking him after a scudding next week is too sad to contemplate.

[Unseen work]

100% agree.

Add Eddie May into the mix too. Should be no where near the job.

Just listened to his post match interview on radio and he sounds totally lost.

Fine margins etc - it’s just all the same old crap.

Aberdeen showing what a decent manager can do with good recruitment while we are getting worse every week.

The bizarre thing with Samson is we brought him in as a first team coach, not just a goalie coach.

[Heisenberg]

The bizarre thing with Samson is we brought him in as a first team coach, not just a goalie coach.

Purely because he’s a good laugh around the place it seems. Utterly ridiculous

[ChuckNor]

It’s looking like he will get the derby and if (when) he loses that it’s going to be curtains. St Johnstone have a good manager, Hearts will turn a corner now. We are heading one way and for me it’s looking ominous.

I actually don’t think Gray is the problem. I think whoever signed Bursik (hi David Marshall) should be punted asap. A disaster of a signing who will continue to cost us points and fail to make basic saves.

[Jones28]

And gave Joe Newell a new contract. Clown.


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Why are you calling him a clown? There’s no need for it.

[SteveHFC]

Said nothing in his post match interview to give me any hope

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Said nothing in his post match interview to give me any hope

What did he say? My temper won't be a good idea to look at it 😒

[SHODAN]

At least everything will be fine again once he is sacked. Trust the process.

[Paulie Walnuts]

At least everything will be fine again once he is sacked. Trust the process.

If we’re going to sack him and allow those two ****ing idiots to appoint the next man then I’d agree, we may as well not bother.

He should be sacked, we admit it was a bat**** crazy decision to appoint him and announce BKFC are taking over football matters.

[InvertedFullBak]

And gave Joe Newell a new contract. Clown.


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Correct. Keeping one of the main problems around for another 3 seasons was ridiculous.

[SteveHFC]

What did he say? My temper won't be a good idea to look at it 😒

Not a lot substance but basically he knows the blame lies with him as he is in charge, sounds like he knows the clock is ticking

[IanM]

What did he say? My temper won't be a good idea to look at it 😒

I’m responsible even though some of it isn’t my fault ..

[TrinityHFC]

Not a lot substance but basically he knows the blame lies with him as he is in charge, sounds like he knows the clock is ticking

We haven’t suddenly become poor under Gray. I think I’d be starting with those above him.

[Real Emerald]

We haven’t suddenly become poor under Gray. I think I’d be starting with those above him.

100% but instead of improving us from a low bar we’re getting worse under him. Gray is utterly clueless as how to turn it around which is not surprising given the squad he has but he has no experience to call on for his next move. Rabbit caught in the headlights.

[Iain G]

This comes down to sacking Monty when had clearly been given a job to do to gut the squad and build a new culture. We threw that out the door and probably most of the forward planning with it and entrusted a novice to do the same job.

We either give him time or we hold our hands up and say sorry, got it wrong, and make another change and reset to square one again.

To be honest I would be punting Malky (Hibs should never employ anyone called Malky IMHO) first and finding someone who can help support SDG and also would be looking to add a genuine experienced assistant to his backroom team.

We need to support the guy, properly.

[NC1875]

We haven’t suddenly become poor under Gray. I think I’d be starting with those above him.

No but he’s signed a whole team and made us worse. Change is needed at all levels, including Gray

[Nicho87]

Who is assistant Liam Craig, Eddie may

Watched Craig during warm up, done a couple of kickie uppies and threw some balls at the back four at the end.

We need an old head with experience in their, I don’t even think Eddie May wanted to be involved in the first team again he was quite happy in the background.

[McD]

MacKay has built him a team that isn't good enough. How can he manage a team with this defence and goalies to win.



It’s his job to coach them and improve them. He was also part of the recruitment in the summer. McKay doesn’t make the subs, set the tactics or carry out the training.


Grey wanted the big job, he has to carry the can for his performances in that role.

[Alfred E Newman]

It’s his job to coach them and improve them. He was also part of the recruitment in the summer. McKay doesn’t make the subs, set the tactics or carry out the training.


Grey wanted the big job, he has to carry the can for his performances in that role.

What does McKay do and what does he contribute?

[mcohibs]

It’s his job to coach them and improve them. He was also part of the recruitment in the summer. McKay doesn’t make the subs, set the tactics or carry out the training.


Grey wanted the big job, he has to carry the can for his performances in that role.

Yep. Don’t buy the chat that we need to feel sorry for him. He’s been given a chance that anyone with his minimal coaching experience could only dream of. He wouldn’t get an interview for any other club in this league. Time to deliver David.

[Callum_62]

You saw how happy Aberdeen fans were when we took Samson off their hands. They hated him and accused him of doing the same stuff. Bear in mind he’s the goalie coach, shouldn’t be anywhere near the touchline.

I would have liked to see Gray bring in some more experience for his back room staff. Liam Craig and Samson? No wonder we’re ****ed.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe's not just the goalie coach tho - I watched David Gray confirm that

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[McD]

What does McKay do and what does he contribute?


He’s certainly not responsible for the coaching and tactics we’re subjected to every week.


Personally I would get rid of McKay, Marshall and all the coaching team as well as gray if he goes

[BoomtownHibees]

He's not just the goalie coach tho - I watched David Gray confirm that

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And that’s an even stranger decision

[B.H.F.C]

Who is assistant Liam Craig, Eddie may

Watched Craig during warm up, done a couple of kickie uppies and threw some balls at the back four at the end.

We need an old head with experience in their, I don’t even think Eddie May wanted to be involved in the first team again he was quite happy in the background.

They’re all assistants are they not.

Poor and lazy appointments.

[Callum_62]

They’re all assistants are they not.

Poor and lazy appointments.That lies solely with David Gray

Always thought I'd very odd Eddie May was part of the set up

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[Cabbage-Patch]

I've seen enough now. He needs to go. He will always be a club legend but he should never have been given the job in the 1st place. I blame the hierarchy not him.

We have somehow actually regressed from last season which I didn't think was possible. We cannot defend and we don't create or finish enough chances other end. Chuck in a bombscare keeper and baffling subs and the recipe for relegation is complete.

We will get turned over by Hearts at home next weekend and he will be gone. Malky will take over as caretaker,get a few results paper over the cracks and get the job and we will right back at square one in a couple months. Being a hibs fan is genuinely draining.

[Since452]

Gray is a club hero and I don't like saying it but he has been part of the management team that has seen multiple managers sacked. The reward for this was to appoint him manager.

I'm not saying he has been the sole reason for the sackings but maybe he needs to depart the club as well. We need competency not nostalgia. He'll always have a place in all our hearts and rightly so but our club is on its arse and we need someone who knows what they're doing, badly. Today was as much on David as anyone and that's tough to take.

[hibeerealist]

This comes down to sacking Monty when had clearly been given a job to do to gut the squad and build a new culture. We threw that out the door and probably most of the forward planning with it and entrusted a novice to do the same job.

We either give him time or we hold our hands up and say sorry, got it wrong, and make another change and reset to square one again.

To be honest I would be punting Malky (Hibs should never employ anyone called Malky IMHO) first and finding someone who can help support SDG and also would be looking to add a genuine experienced assistant to his backroom team.

We need to support the guy, properly.


Had to read this twice to make sure I got it, what a load o Tom Kite.

[Unseen work]

Would Gray be the type to resign? Tbf I don’t know why he would given he’d get a compensation package if sacked

Or will he be convinced he’ll turn it round?

[Aldo]

Would Gray be the type to resign? Tbf I don’t know why he would given he’d get a compensation package if sacked

Or will he be convinced he’ll turn it round?

Don’t think he is.

He might be convinced but I have seen little evidence he can.

[B.H.F.C]

Would Gray be the type to resign? Tbf I don’t know why he would given he’d get a compensation package if sacked

Or will he be convinced he’ll turn it round?

I don’t think he’d resign. It’s his livelihood.

Just praying he can turn it round, starting next week, but I really can’t see it happening for him.

[Iain G]

Had to read this twice to make sure I got it, what a load o Tom Kite.

Care to explain why you think so?

[penihibs]

Said it before that Samson was a chancer. He was an awful keeper and he’s not much better as a goalkeeping coach. Was gutted when i’d heard he was part of Gray’s backroom staff
Why we brought him back to Hibs is beyond me,when he was with Aberdeen giving us it tight at Hampden when they beat us.
Every job he's had, in manager's ear giving them advice,can't stand him.

[Callum_62]

Every job he's had, in manager's ear giving them advice,can't stand him.

Surely that shows the managers wanted his advice?

Weird thing to give him stick for

David Gray has already said he's not just a goalie coach


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[James70]

Mr Foley was right, Hibs got it wrong.

[allezsauzee]

We haven’t suddenly become poor under Gray. I think I’d be starting with those above him.

Nope we haven't. We've been signing mostly substandard players for the last 5 years and nothing really changed this summer so the results were unlikely to get better. We've been a bit unlucky with Bowie being injured but most of the signings weren't improvements on what we had.

[1875M]

Come forth, Neil Francis Lennon

[chrisski33]

Mr Foley was right, Hibs got it wrong.

But where is Mr Foley or the Black Knights now? They are very quiet

[Unseen work]

Come forth, Neil Francis Lennon

Franny back in as interim whilst the Gordon’s sell up and BK reevaluate the club again and appoint a manager

[Jim44]

I am saddened to say this but I really think we are a total basket case of a club with absolutely no future with the present set up. An almost certain defeat in the derby will set us even deeper in trouble. Sad depressing times.

[Northernhibee]

Come forth, Neil Francis Lennon

When you think things couldn’t get more desperate…

[1875M]

When you think things couldn’t get more desperate…

It was a joke mate. Although he’s x10 the manager Gray will ever be.

[LunasBoots]

Sadly at no fault of his own he's been put in this position

[Murphys Touch]

There is a short video on Twitter filming the subs at half time….no coaches out with them and therefore the players are just standing in groups of 2 and 3 talking.

United subs in background buzzing about

Small details but explain the standards and mindset.

[Callum_62]

There is a short video on Twitter filming the subs at half time….no coaches out with them and therefore the players are just standing in groups of 2 and 3 talking.

United subs in background buzzing about

Small details but explain the standards and mindset.A short video doesn't show you anything really

Was that the case for the full half time? I'm sure Boyle came on at HT so wasn't he warning up?

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[Murphys Touch]

A short video doesn't show you anything really

Was that the case for the full half time? I'm sure Boyle can win at HT so wasn't he warning up?

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Fair dos….seems like the guy filming thought it was brutal

https://x.com/scottmillar1/status/1847728785031926262?s=46&t=JDLecRY8YgebZUOQNYJg2A

[truehibernian]

A short video doesn't show you anything really

Was that the case for the full half time? I'm sure Boyle can win at HT so wasn't he warning up?

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It says everything you need to know about the professional approach that players and staff completely lack at present. Gray talks regularly about ‘fine margins’, hard work, players concentrating- they look completely and utterly disinterested and a first team coach should be with them ensuring levels and standards - the ones Gray said he’s setting !!

[pacorosssco]

There is a short video on Twitter filming the subs at half time….no coaches out with them and therefore the players are just standing in groups of 2 and 3 talking.

United subs in background buzzing about

Small details but explain the standards and mindset.

Noticed this at game. Looked like didnt care

[easty]

This comes down to sacking Monty when had clearly been given a job to do to gut the squad and build a new culture. We threw that out the door and probably most of the forward planning with it and entrusted a novice to do the same job.

We either give him time or we hold our hands up and say sorry, got it wrong, and make another change and reset to square one again.

To be honest I would be punting Malky (Hibs should never employ anyone called Malky IMHO) first and finding someone who can help support SDG and also would be looking to add a genuine experienced assistant to his backroom team.

We need to support the guy, properly.

Monty was a novice tae. 60 games managerial experience before Hibs. In a poor league.

[The Harp Awakes]

Gray is a rookie Manager, making mistakes as he was always going to. Shock and horror. The problem is, he's not going to get the time to learn from his mistakes and correct them.

David needed to cut his teeth at a lower league club and learn his trade. The imbeciles running our club have made yet another wrong appointment at the wrong time. Most of us could see it but they could not.

Reallly feel for him but can't see him surviving if we lose next week. Hibs fans will be in meltdown.

[davym7062]

he got his head one ball.... im sick of this sentimental crap

[flash]

he got his head one ball.... im sick of this sentimental crap

Go to bed ffs.

[GreenCastle]

David Gray won’t get another managers job after this - especially at this level.

It was a massive gamble which has totally backfired on those who appointed him.

You just don’t lose to Kelty then start the season the way we did away to St Mirren - it was that bad.

The club needs a clear out..so many individuals getting paid good money for under performing.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

he got his head one ball.... im sick of this sentimental crap

Nope


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[Paulie Walnuts]

Nope


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To be fair, whilst I think the posters style of post smacks of ‘I’m pished and raging’, I also think it’s pretty much inarguable.

He’s in a job for that reason. No other explanation makes sense.

[mcohibs]

Sadly at no fault of his own he's been put in this position

Are we meant to feel sorry for Gray that he’s our manager? He’d have been delighted to get the job and he wanted it. He’s been given an excellent opportunity at a huge club. One that others of his minimal level experience could only dream of. He wouldn’t get to interview stage at any other club in this league. His subs and game management have cost us several points this season and we look like a worse team with him in charge. That’s the harsh reality.

[Del Boy]

Love David Gray, always will. But I think he’ll
Be away when we lose next week.

[CL0762]

Sadly at no fault of his own he's been put in this position

It is his own fault, no one forced him to apply for then accept the job 😂

[joe breezy]

Aberdeen have shown how it’s done - although Black Knights wanted the same but Kensell and co went for the cheap option

Get fat idiot racist MacKay out too


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[neil7908]

Love David Gray, always will. But I think he’ll
Be away when we lose next week.

He should never have been in the job in the first place.

And I'm struggling to give any manager time with us sitting bottom of the league.

The weird thing is we've actually played OK the last few weeks but let down time and time again but some shocking decision making, game management and individual errors.

A large part of that is down to the players but equally the manager is responsible for getting them set up right and in the best possible mental shape. As soon as Newell was sent off I knew we wouldn't see it out and I think other teams are delighted to face the Hibs as they know we will buckle when the going gets tough.

[RIP]

Take Triantis and Newell off after 70 minutes and we are sitting 4 points higher in the table. Joe just back from injury - why the **** was he still on the pitch after 85 minutes?

Rookie Head Coach = Rookie mistakes!

[Box 17]

What a difference a few months makes.

Where are all the posters who were demanding that David Gray be given the job? Almost unanimous it was on here. A choice that was surely only based on emotion and sentiment, there being no other valid reasons that would suggest he was the best qualified for the job.
Those who said at the time we needed an experienced coach with knowledge of the Scottish game were shouted down and told that having legendary status was qualification enough.

Yes, SDG is a legend and always will be - as a player, but for now we need a manger in quickly that can get us out of the trouble we're in before it's too late.

[MWHIBBIES]

What a difference a few months makes.

Where are all the posters who were demanding that David Gray be given the job? Almost unanimous it was on here. A choice that was surely only based on emotion and sentiment, there being no other valid reasons that would suggest he was the best qualified for the job.
Those who said at the time we needed an experienced coach with knowledge of the Scottish game were shouted down and told that having legendary status was qualification enough.

Yes, SDG is a legend and always will be - as a player, but for now we need a manger in quickly that can get us out of the trouble we're in before it's too late.

It was not unanimous on here. Stop lying.

[Box 17]

It was not unanimous on here. Stop lying.

I said 'almost unanimous' which it was. Stop misquoting.

[blackpoolhibs]

I said 'almost unanimous' which it was. Stop misquoting.

He was never my first pick, in fact nowhere near the first pick of mine.

[MWHIBBIES]

I said 'almost unanimous' which it was. Stop misquoting.

It wasn't almost either. Completely false.

[Since90+2]

I said 'almost unanimous' which it was. Stop misquoting.

No chance it was almost unanimous. Not even close.

When he was appointed most folk were happy enough to back him and support the decision, that's not the same as almost everyone demanding for him to be appointed.

[bingo70]

It wasn't almost either. Completely false.

Nah, you’re right, it definitely wasn’t.

When it became clear it was going to be Gray, people tried to be optimistic and put a positive spin on it, as you would expect. I think people tried to understand the logic rather than genuinely believing it.

If he was Third in command during four failed managerial appointments at another club he wouldn’t have been considered for an interview, that should have been the start and end of the decision process for him.

That said, once the decision was made to appoint him we needed to back him accordingly and we’ve badly failed to do so. For the recruitment department to give him that goalie and defence is unforgivable and heads need to role for that.

[Box 17]

It wasn't almost either. Completely false.

At the end of the day whether it was 'almost unanimous' or 'a majority' or 'most people' it doesn't really matter as that wasn't the primary issue of my post.

What I was pointing out, as I did at the time, was in the state the club was in after last season we needed an experienced coach, not a rookie.

It's all playing out exactly as some of us said it would, unfortunately.

[blackpoolhibs]

The real reason Gray got the job is he was cheap, and a patsy for those above him. The pro's of appointing him were he was already here, knew the problems and having witnessed them first hand could come in and sort it straight away without having a clean slate.

The con's are he's no real experience, his subs are awful and he's brought in some awful players who have not improved us, no matter what Donegal says, and a crap keeper on loan with another on the bench who's won a raffle for that place.

He also loves Campbell, the guy is so poor, even he cant believe he got a contract and a regular game at this poor standard.

3 years for Newell, the list goes on.

Inexperienced and a very slow learner, should never have been put in the position.

[B.H.F.C]

This is basically playing out the way a lot of us feared it would deep down and it’s not nice.

On one hand, I feel sorry for SDG because he shouldn’t be in the position he’s in. On the other hand, he’s making too many mistakes and it’s simply not good enough.

He couldn’t really have got off to a worse start. Kelty was up there with one of the worst results we’ll ever have, I thought that was overlooked at the time. The league table speaks for itself beyond that.

I never expected much from his appointment but I expected better than this. I thought we’d be harder working and a bit harder to beat than we are as a minimum.

[Callum_62]

He couldn’t really have got off to a worse start. Kelty was up there with one of the worst results we’ll ever have, I thought that was overlooked at the time. The league table speaks for itself beyond that.

I never expected much from his appointment but I expected better than this. I thought we’d be harder working and a bit harder to beat than we are as a minimum.

It's genuinely a worse start than I thought was possible to be honest

So far it's been a complete disaster

Meanwhile the experienced guy across the road comes in to massive ridicule - says the players are good enough but they aren't working hard enough and that's the focus - go out and scud a team 4-0 that battered us on his first game without making a single signing

We now play a hearts team next week who's been laughed at all year with us below them on a massive low and them on a new manager bounce

Brilliant



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[Brizo]

I came away from Tannadice yesterday, having previously been in the things will gel and improve camp, thinking most of these players haven't got the character to turn things around. I thought Dundee United were very ordinary and player for player weren't any better than us but they had a resilience that's totally absent from us. I feel sorry for SDG but if he wasn't SDG would I be feeling sorry for him and giving him the benefit of the doubt? Probably not.

I think SDG is safe at the moment but if we were to become say 6 points detached from everyone else I think our owners would have no qualms about binning him. For a board that sees everything in terms of commerciality, potential relegation would be a nightmare. Potentially playing in the Championship, in a 150th season that they're viewing primarily as a cash cow, even more of a nightmare. Given their track record I'm sure they'll pull the trigger as soon as that becomes even a vague possibility.

My only arguments for keeping SDG are because he is SDG , we can't keep firing managers , and because if he's sacked I fear the old-pals act will kick in and Malky McPherson will influence the owners into giving Malky Mackay the job. It's not a great endorsement.

Stanton, Blackley and Sauzee are three sacked managers whose legend status remains intact. If SDG gets sacked so will his. More worrying than the failings of individual managers are the systemic failings of an ownership who continually make the wrong decisions.

[Onion]

He should never have been in the job in the first place.

And I'm struggling to give any manager time with us sitting bottom of the league.

The weird thing is we've actually played OK the last few weeks but let down time and time again but some shocking decision making, game management and individual errors.

A large part of that is down to the players but equally the manager is responsible for getting them set up right and in the best possible mental shape. As soon as Newell was sent off I knew we wouldn't see it out and I think other teams are delighted to face the Hibs as they know we will buckle when the going gets tough.

One of the key objectives over the summer (trust the process) was to bring in players with character and steal, to stop what has become a Hibs trait over the last few seasons. Even this early, we can see they've failed miserably. Hibs STILL have no leaders on the pitch, and collectively fold like a cheap suit when the heat is turned up.

Can't get rid of the overpaid losers in the stand, can't get a result out of the losers on the pitch. What a shambles.

[JimBHibees]

It says everything you need to know about the professional approach that players and staff completely lack at present. Gray talks regularly about ‘fine margins’, hard work, players concentrating- they look completely and utterly disinterested and a first team coach should be with them ensuring levels and standards - the ones Gray said he’s setting !!

No way Gray should be out at half time doing a warm up. Usually one coach doing that

[Murphys Touch]

The real reason Gray got the job is he was cheap, and a patsy for those above him. The pro's of appointing him were he was already here, knew the problems and having witnessed them first hand could come in and sort it straight away without having a clean slate.

The con's are he's no real experience, his subs are awful and he's brought in some awful players who have not improved us, no matter what Donegal says, and a crap keeper on loan with another on the bench who's won a raffle for that place.

He also loves Campbell, the guy is so poor, even he cant believe he got a contract and a regular game at this poor standard.

3 years for Newell, the list goes on.

Inexperienced and a very slow learner, should never have been put in the position.

All this - vast majority saw this needed an experienced gaffer to come in and fix. Or at the very least, new voices and energy and a fresh look on things

[1875M]

If any other top flight team had appointed a manager with 0 professional games managed in a full time capacity and had been part of 4 failed coaching squads, we’d be laughing hysterically at them. I will always love the man but he’s out his depth and if we fail to win against Hearts, he’s got to go. We are showing no signs of turning this around. It’s not as if we’re playing decent football and just missing chances, we are playing below average football with a leaky defence and Shan keeper, which is a terrible mixture.

[He's here!]

At the end of the day whether it was 'almost unanimous' or 'a majority' or 'most people' it doesn't really matter as that wasn't the primary issue of my post.

What I was pointing out, as I did at the time, was in the state the club was in after last season we needed an experienced coach, not a rookie.

It's all playing out exactly as some of us said it would, unfortunately.

Gray's appointment wasn't based on Sauzee-style sentiment. He probably has more experience than Mowbray or Stubbs had prior to taking the Hibs job. I could see why the club felt he might be the right man, especially when they looked at Hearts and saw Naismith (with less experience than Gray) taking Hearts to third.

Mackay may not be everyone's cup of tea but I thought his appointment was supposed to add a layer of experience which Gray could lean on. That, however, doesn't appear to have worked at all.

Bottom line, the Gordon regime have now tried and failed four times to put an effective management structure in place since sacking our last good manager. That's the biggest problem at our club, not David Gray.

[BroxburnHibee]

Listened to Grays interview were he talks about getting them to work harder. There's no sign of that in that team. He should show that whole squad who's boss by stripping that lazy charlatan he gave the captaincy to.

[hibee1875]

In all of his post match interviews he’s saying things like “I could point fingers but won’t do that”. Wish he just would. Call Campbell out for being too weak. Call miller out for being too soft. Call bursik out for not commanding his area enough.

Make the players ****ing embarrassed. Then we’ll see their character. If they down tools so be it, **** them and play someone else who does want to prove a point

[Ozyhibby]

In all of his post match interviews he’s saying things like “I could point fingers but won’t do that”. Wish he just would. Call Campbell out for being too weak. Call miller out for being too soft. Call bursik out for not commanding his area enough.

Make the players ****ing embarrassed. Then we’ll see their character. If they down tools so be it, **** them and play someone else who does want to prove a point

How will we know if they have downed tools?[emoji2369]


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[Callum_62]

In all of his post match interviews he’s saying things like “I could point fingers but won’t do that”. Wish he just would. Call Campbell out for being too weak. Call miller out for being too soft. Call bursik out for not commanding his area enough.

Make the players ****ing embarrassed. Then we’ll see their character. If they down tools so be it, **** them and play someone else who does want to prove a pointWorked well for butcher that did eh?

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[NC1875]

How will we know if they have downed tools?[emoji2369]


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It seems most of them have already downed tools.

[Alfred E Newman]

I came away from Tannadice yesterday, having previously been in the things will gel and improve camp, thinking most of these players haven't got the character to turn things around. I thought Dundee United were very ordinary and player for player weren't any better than us but they had a resilience that's totally absent from us. I feel sorry for SDG but if he wasn't SDG would I be feeling sorry for him and giving him the benefit of the doubt? Probably not.

I think SDG is safe at the moment but if we were to become say 6 points detached from everyone else I think our owners would have no qualms about binning him. For a board that sees everything in terms of commerciality, potential relegation would be a nightmare. Potentially playing in the Championship, in a 150th season that they're viewing primarily as a cash cow, even more of a nightmare. Given their track record I'm sure they'll pull the trigger as soon as that becomes even a vague possibility.

My only arguments for keeping SDG are because he is SDG , we can't keep firing managers , and because if he's sacked I fear the old-pals act will kick in and Malky McPherson will influence the owners into giving Malky Mackay the job. It's not a great endorsement.

Stanton, Blackley and Sauzee are three sacked managers whose legend status remains intact. If SDG gets sacked so will his. More worrying than the failings of individual managers are the systemic failings of an ownership who continually make the wrong decisions.

Stanton wasn't sacked, he did the best thing and resigned. I have a feeling SDG will do the same thing if results do not improve.

[sleeping giant]

Stanton wasn't sacked, he did the best thing and resigned. I have a feeling SDG will do the same thing if results do not improve.
I think he will resign too. Probably next Monday.

[Saint Hibee]

In all of his post match interviews he’s saying things like “I could point fingers but won’t do that”. Wish he just would. Call Campbell out for being too weak. Call miller out for being too soft. Call bursik out for not commanding his area enough.

Make the players ****ing embarrassed. Then we’ll see their character. If they down tools so be it, **** them and play someone else who does want to prove a point

He should start by pointing the finger at himself for making the substitutions which cost us the match.

[flash]

It seems most of them have already downed tools.

I don't get how you think that.

I saw a poor team lacking in confidence yesterday but I definitely didn't see any lack of effort.

[B.H.F.C]

It seems most of them have already downed tools.

Too many pretenders. You take guys like Newell and Campbell, we’ve been here so many times. They like to give the impression that they’re hard workers but they’re not really. Not unless everything is going all right.

Gray putting so much tryst in the likes of them when he’s seen where it’s got all the managers he’s worked under really annoys me.

[andrew70]

He should start by pointing the finger at himself for making the substitutions which cost us the match.

Exactly this.

Not the first time either.

His reliance on certain players is astounding.

[bingo70]

Exactly this.

Not the first time either.

His reliance on certain players is astounding.

One of the few things he had in his favour was that there wouldn’t be a clean slate and players who had under performed would be moved on and replaced.

How we’ve gone from that to starting the season with Campbell as our preferred number 10 and then moving to a system where Cadden is our right winger is quite incredible.

[Cabbage-Patch]

Was at the game yesterday and refrained from posting too much last night as was angry. I'm afraid my thoughts have not tempered this morning.

Yes the board and executive team need to go, that much is obvious. The Gordon's have been a disaster for the club. Poor appointment after poor appointment at all levels of the club have made us a laughing stock. The board however aren't going anywhere so attention turns to Gray. I like others let sentiment and heart rule my head when he was appointed. I thought he was the wrong choice but got on the train and willed him to succeed. Probably more than any other appointment we have made in all honesty. Unfortunately, perhaps even predictably it's not worked out. He is a rookie coach and some of the decisions he's made show this. Making Joe Newell captain was the 1st mistake. The guy has absolutely no presence on the pitch and is a squad player at best. Never a captain in a million years.

Secondly he seems to persist with starting players who have been absolutely woeful. Bursik, Miller and Myko to name a few. By continuing to include a championship level standard player such as Josh Campbell in match day squads is also baffling let alone bringing him on change/see out games is even worse. His substations in general have been cost us at least 9 points this season already. If that were to accumulate over a season we are relegated without question.

David Gray has been a defensive coach for the last 3/4 managers who have been let go. A defence which has got them sacked and will also get him the sack. Still the same problems remain. In what world would owners think that's the person to take the club forward?

I'm sorry sir David, forever as a legend you will be you stepped up into the hotseat therefore you accepted the ramifications of this. There is little place for sentiment in football which will always been a results driven business. For that reason I'm sad to say it's time to go. Cut your teeth at a lower level and build your credibility that way. Not with us.

[andrew70]

One of the few things he had in his favour was that there wouldn’t be a clean slate and players who had under performed would be moved on and replaced.

How we’ve gone from that to starting the season with Campbell as our preferred number 10 and then moving to a system where Cadden is our right winger is quite incredible.

And Newell captain. Alarm bells ringing straight away.

Shambolic leadership.

[McD]

Gray's appointment wasn't based on Sauzee-style sentiment. He probably has more experience than Mowbray or Stubbs had prior to taking the Hibs job. I could see why the club felt he might be the right man, especially when they looked at Hearts and saw Naismith (with less experience than Gray) taking Hearts to third.

Mackay may not be everyone's cup of tea but I thought his appointment was supposed to add a layer of experience which Gray could lean on. That, however, doesn't appear to have worked at all.

Bottom line, the Gordon regime have now tried and failed four times to put an effective management structure in place since sacking our last good manager. That's the biggest problem at our club, not David Gray.


Stubbs had managed Everton’s u21 side. Naismith had managed hearts u21s/B team. Both on a permanent basis before stepping into a top job.
Meaning both had experience of tactics, setting up a team, planning and executing set pieces, being in charge of managing during matches and making changes, in charge of training, of fitness, of establishing a culture, consistent game plan and style. Gray did not have any of those things.


As for McKay, none of us really know how much support or input he gives or is asked for by gray.


Gray is not the only problem at Hibs, the people above him are a massive problem, but it doesn’t mean we should gloss over the mistakes gray is making

[mcfly]

He has to drop the goalie, he must change the defence and stop losing cheap goals.

Stop playing Campbell , newell and all the other losers at the club who got all the prev managers sacked.

David gray needs to make big bold decisions this week. None of players can complain if they are dropped.

They’ve let themselves, the club, the fans and the manager down

Any fans anger should be directed straight at the board and chief executive for the shambles they are entirely at fault for…

[NC1875]

I don't get how you think that.

I saw a poor team lacking in confidence yesterday but I definitely didn't see any lack of effort.

I don’t think the team is any worse that Dundee Utd.

Yet they just never seem to put in the level of effort required to win games in this league. Other teams are throwing bodies in front of balls, chasing down everything to see out games. We just never do.

Lacklustre, slow and pedestrian in attack and defence.

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t think the team is any worse that Dundee Utd.

Yet they just never seem to put in the level of effort required to win games in this league. Other teams are throwing bodies in front of balls, chasing down everything to see out games. We just never do.

Lacklustre, slow and pedestrian in attack and defence.

I keep saying it, it’s all down to mentality. This team don’t have the mentality and desire to win games in this league. It filters down right through the whole club. They have everything done for them every day of their life in a nice comfortable environment.

We capitulate as soon as there is any sign of pressure. Dundee Utd had to do very little to score three goals yesterday. Even after the sending off it’s not as if it was a bombardment on our goal. If roles were reversed though, would we have went and found two quick goals in those circumstances though? Not a chance.

[blackpoolhibs]

He has to drop the goalie, he must change the defence and stop losing cheap goals.

Stop playing Campbell , newell and all the other losers at the club who got all the prev managers sacked.

David gray needs to make big bold decisions this week. None of players can complain if they are dropped.

They’ve let themselves, the club, the fans and the manager down

Any fans anger should be directed straight at the board and chief executive for the shambles they are entirely at fault for…

The other guy is even worse. :faf:

[Ozyhibby]

The other guy is even worse. :faf:

The Gray, Mackay and Marshall need kicked out the club.


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[Cabbage-Patch]

The Gray, Mackay and Marshall need kicked out the club.
:confused:

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Can someone explain what Marshalls role is exactly? Any other club would have made him goalie coach given his experience yet we pay him a good wage to be Malkys PA and bring in Craig Samson

[Unseen work]

The other guy is even worse. :faf:

I saw clips of smith at one of his clubs making decent saves

Something I’ve yet to see from Bursik.

For that reason he’s in

Same as Boruc

[blackpoolhibs]

I saw clips of smith at one of his clubs making decent saves

Something I’ve yet to see from Bursik.

For that reason he’s in

Same as Boruc

I wonder if Marshall is still signed on as a player, even half fit he'd be better than what we have, and i'm not his biggest fan?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It wasn't almost either. Completely false.

Very true.

[Unseen work]

I wonder if Marshall is still signed on as a player, even half fit he'd be better than what we have, and i'm not his biggest fan?

He’d 100% be our best keeper

[raeburnhibs]

I saw clips of smith at one of his clubs making decent saves

Something I’ve yet to see from Bursik.

For that reason he’s in

Same as Boruc

This is yet another problem of our own making; instead of signing the logical guy, you know, the one we have a BK arrangement with, third or fourth choice at Bournemouth who played well all last season at Killie, we go down the typical Hibs route....

[Ozyhibby]

This is yet another problem of our own making; instead of signing the logical guy, you know, the one we have a BK arrangement with, third or fourth choice at Bournemouth who played well all last season at Killie, we go down the typical Hibs route....

I don’t think Bournemouth was an option once we appointed Mackay and Gray.


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[CentreLine]

Hibs are a ship adrift right now. No direction, no engine, no leadership and heading for the rocks. How the hell did our once great club come to this?

[Spike Mandela]

I feel sorry for David Gray. I tbink he is saying and doing the right things.

He is putting teams out there that are getting themselves into winning positions but individual errors and lack of concentration near the end of games are costing him dear. You can see the frustration in his interviews.

He needs guys like Newell and Boyle to step up and drag this team over the line to win games.

Recruitment has hamstrung him as well. Alarm bells were ringing for me when our first signing was a young, inexperienced keeper. I expected Hibs to go for either an imternational or someome on the fringes.

Recruitment has beem patchy to say the least but we should still be doing better than we are.

Next week is massive, Hearts now have something to build on but we can put a dent in that if David and his players get it right.I can't remember a more important derby since the 2016 cup replay.

Unfortunately for Gray I think if he loses he's gone.

[B.H.F.C]

I feel sorry for David Gray. I tbink he is saying and doing the right things.

He is putting teams out there that are getting themselves into winning positions but individual errors and lack of concentration near the end of games are costing him dear. You can see the frustration in his interviews.

He needs guys like Newell and Boyle to step up and drag this team over the line to win games.

Recruitment has hamstrung him as well. Alarm bells were ringing for me when our first signing was a young, inexperienced keeper. I expected Hibs to go for either an imternational or someome on the fringes.

Recruitment has beem patchy to say the least but we should still be doing better than we are.

Next week is massive, Hearts now have something to build on but we can put a dent in that if David and his players get it right.I can't remember a more important derby since the 2016 cup replay.

Unfortunately for Gray I think if he loses he's gone.

I do feel sorry for him but I also think he’s doing plenty wrong himself. Poor subs that have cost us points in certain games and as much as recruitment is an issue, he played a big part in that as well. Beyond that, he’s relying on players that have let multiple managers down. It’s no surprise they’re letting him down as well.

Thought his tone was different in his post match interview yesterday. You could see and hear how angry he was. He needs to come up with a solution this week though or his job is on the line.

[Unseen work]

I feel sorry for David Gray. I tbink he is saying and doing the right things.

He is putting teams out there that are getting themselves into winning positions but individual errors and lack of concentration near the end of games are costing him dear. You can see the frustration in his interviews.

He needs guys like Newell and Boyle to step up and drag this team over the line to win games.

Recruitment has hamstrung him as well. Alarm bells were ringing for me when our first signing was a young, inexperienced keeper. I expected Hibs to go for either an imternational or someome on the fringes.

Recruitment has beem patchy to say the least but we should still be doing better than we are.

Next week is massive, Hearts now have something to build on but we can put a dent in that if David and his players get it right.I can't remember a more important derby since the 2016 cup replay.

Unfortunately for Gray I think if he loses he's gone.

Re saying the right things

I think that’s why he got the job as mentioned previously about the interview and how well he comes across

He’s been here for so long, he knows what fans like and what they don’t like. He’ll obviously see the problems the same way fans have for the past couple of years

In interviews it’s always very much what fans would like to hear

[The Modfather]

Re saying the right things

I think that’s why he got the job as mentioned previously about the interview and how well he comes across

He’s been here for so long, he knows what fans like and what they don’t like. He’ll obviously see the problems the same way fans have for the past couple of years

In interviews it’s always very much what fans would like to hear

Yet gives Newell a three year deal and captaincy. Tries to make Campbell work and Cadden as a winger. As well as picking a team that’s hard to beat and can defend at Ibrox and thinking that same team is suited to attacking and taking the initiative at home to Motherwell. Talking is the easy bit.

[Docker]

I feel sorry for David Gray. I tbink he is saying and doing the right things.

He is putting teams out there that are getting themselves into winning positions but individual errors and lack of concentration near the end of games are costing him dear. You can see the frustration in his interviews.

He needs guys like Newell and Boyle to step up and drag this team over the line to win games.

Recruitment has hamstrung him as well. Alarm bells were ringing for me when our first signing was a young, inexperienced keeper. I expected Hibs to go for either an imternational or someome on the fringes.

Recruitment has beem patchy to say the least but we should still be doing better than we are.

Next week is massive, Hearts now have something to build on but we can put a dent in that if David and his players get it right.I can't remember a more important derby since the 2016 cup replay.

Unfortunately for Gray I think if he loses he's gone.

I don’t think he’s been doing the right things at all.
The players can’t manage games out and neither can he. Mentioned on many other threads but his substitutions have contributed to negative momentum shifts in games.
His overall management of the Rangers game was pretty good. Outside that I think he has performed in much the same way as the players really - very average with some big mistakes thrown in!

[hibee-boys]

I don’t believe we’ve got anywhere near the worst squad in the league yet we sit at the foot of the table. I’m afraid it then comes down to coaching and wrong team selection/tactics, and that lands on Gray and his team.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

“Lack of desire”

Our Head Coach, a club captain and the scorer of the most important goal in our history no less…and he publicly states his own players showed a “lack of desire”.

What ****ing chance have we got? His non-negotiables included our players sprinting forwards and sprinting back, yet I can recall countless times our full-backs have failed to do this.

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t believe we’ve got anywhere near the worst squad in the league yet we sit at the foot of the table. I’m afraid it then comes down to coaching and wrong team selection/tactics, and that lands on Gray and his team.

For all I’m critical of them and I don’t think the squad is anywhere near the level it should be for the money spent, it isn’t the worst in the league ability wise. In terms of mentality and will to win it might be though. Either way, I don’t think Gray is getting the most from them either.

[NC1875]

I don’t feel sorry for David Gray, not in the slightest.

He’s signed almost a whole team and we’re bottom of the league.

When you make Newell captain, give him a new deal and insist on playing Josh Campbell then you deserve everything you get.

He shouldn’t have been anywhere near the job in the first place anyway.

[Hibiza]

I think the players seems him as soft , why be so indiciplined and weak .

[He's here!]

I feel sorry for David Gray. I tbink he is saying and doing the right things.

He is putting teams out there that are getting themselves into winning positions but individual errors and lack of concentration near the end of games are costing him dear. You can see the frustration in his interviews.

He needs guys like Newell and Boyle to step up and drag this team over the line to win games.

Recruitment has hamstrung him as well. Alarm bells were ringing for me when our first signing was a young, inexperienced keeper. I expected Hibs to go for either an imternational or someome on the fringes.

Recruitment has beem patchy to say the least but we should still be doing better than we are.

Next week is massive, Hearts now have something to build on but we can put a dent in that if David and his players get it right.I can't remember a more important derby since the 2016 cup replay.

Unfortunately for Gray I think if he loses he's gone.

2016 (and 2017) cup replays we knew we had the beating of them. Hearts and their fans knew it too (despite being a league above us in 2017). Ability/mentality-wise the current Hibs team isn't on the same planet as back then. Fall behind next week and we're done.

[The Harp Awakes]

FFS get Lenny in to get the players fragile mentality sorted. Fed up with this ****show. He would turn things around overnight

[MWHIBBIES]

FFS get Lenny in to get the players fragile mentality sorted. Fed up with this ****show. He would turn things around overnight

Which team has Lennon ever turned around overnight?

[JimBHibees]

Which team has Lennon ever turned around overnight?

The last Celtic team he was in charge of he made them much worse immediately

[cabbageandribs1875]

The last Celtic team he was in charge of he made them much worse immediately


and lost them the treble iirc






i'd still take him back :)

[Basildon Hibs]

I don’t feel sorry for David Gray, not in the slightest.

He’s signed almost a whole team and we’re bottom of the league.

When you make Newell captain, give him a new deal and insist on playing Josh Campbell then you deserve everything you get.

He shouldn’t have been anywhere near the job in the first place anyway.

Spot on. 👍

[The Harp Awakes]

Which team has Lennon ever turned around overnight?

Stubbs was never getting us out of the Championship. Lennon did it first time by changing players attitudes. He made us hard to beat. He's out of a job so a no brainier.

Ask yourself truthfully, do you think he would get more out of these players? Ask Louis what he thinks of him. Forget your prejudices. Hibs are in a total state.

[McD]

Stubbs was never getting us out of the Championship. Lennon did it first time by changing players attitudes. He made us hard to beat. He's out of a job so a no brainier.

Ask yourself truthfully, do you think he would get more out of these players? Ask Louis what he thinks of him. Forget your prejudices. Hibs are in a total state.



Lennon did it with no hearts or rangers to compete against, and managed 1 point more than Stubbs did. He didn’t pull up any trees that season.


This run of form is similar to his latter time at Hibs, definitely don’t want him back. We need someone who has no prior connections or preconceptions about Hibs, and can set a standard that won’t be all talk, galvanise the squad, the fans, and get us moving forward positively.

[MWHIBBIES]

Stubbs was never getting us out of the Championship. Lennon did it first time by changing players attitudes. He made us hard to beat. He's out of a job so a no brainier.

Ask yourself truthfully, do you think he would get more out of these players? Ask Louis what he thinks of him. Forget your prejudices. Hibs are in a total state.

Lennon got the same points in a much easier league than Stubbs, and you know, didn't win the cup on top of it. Stubbs would've easily got us up the season Lennon did. Lennon was nothing special in championship. Trust me, I went to all 36 games. 1 win from 4 against Morton a particular highlight.

I've no prejudice. Lennon was a good manager for Hibs, until he had to replace the excellent players Stubbs signed for him. He was woeful after. Losing 3 times in his last 5 derbies, to Craig Leveins hearts. Grim. He would not do well taking over this mess. He has only ever done well when he's inherited good sides.

Who is **** is Louis?

[Crab apple]

I don’t feel sorry for David Gray, not in the slightest.

He’s signed almost a whole team and we’re bottom of the league.

When you make Newell captain, give him a new deal and insist on playing Josh Campbell then you deserve everything you get.

He shouldn’t have been anywhere near the job in the first place anyway.

His in game decision making is worrying and costing us points. Monty was rightly criticised for this. And throw in we have signed the worst keeper we've had in years. I was at the first game at Elgin and he had one shot which he spilled. We are in trouble.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

2016 (and 2017) cup replays we knew we had the beating of them. Hearts and their fans knew it too (despite being a league above us in 2017). Ability/mentality-wise the current Hibs team isn't on the same planet as back then. Fall behind next week and we're done.

Those were the days. The 2017 replay, we could have beaten them by 4 or 5 goals that night, they would have done if the boot was on the other foot.

Now. Sadly, we'll be lucky to even put a glove on them. Unfortunately that's more the norm. Apart from the time under McLeish and the afore mentioned Cup games, in my time at least, we just don't have the same mentality when it comes to derbies than they do. They simply want it more and it shows.

[LaMotta]

The last Celtic team he was in charge of he made them much worse immediately

Not quite true.

He came in February 2019 and then won them the next 5 trophies ( 2 League Titles, 2 Scottish Cups and one League Cup). It was all going perfectly for him until the meltdown in the Covid season 2 years later when Rangers won the league and St Johnstone both of the cups we should have won.:cb Lennon was clearly not perfect, but really doesn't get the credit he deserves IMO.

[JohnM1875]

Not quite true.

He came in February 2019 and then won them the next 5 trophies ( 2 League Titles, 2 Scottish Cups and one League Cup). It was all going perfectly for him until the meltdown in the Covid season 2 years later when Rangers won the league and St Johnstone both of the cups we should have won.:cb Lennon was clearly not perfect, but really doesn't get the credit he deserves IMO.

Agree and I'm a massive Lennon fan. But he has been horse **** since.

[Hibs Go Bragh]

I’ve not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but Gray’s biggest mistake and his inevitable downfall will be his choice in assistants. Publicly going after and failing to get Liam Fox and then ending up with Liam Craig and Samson. Liam Craig should never have been allowed back inside ER ever again. I couldn’t even believe he was welcomed back as a “legend” for a testimonial!

Maloney made the same mistake picking Caldwell. These guys are jokers.

[easty]

I’ve not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but Gray’s biggest mistake and his inevitable downfall will be his choice in assistants. Publicly going after and failing to get Liam Fox and then ending up with Liam Craig and Samson. Liam Craig should never have been allowed back inside ER ever again. I couldn’t even believe he was welcomed back as a “legend” for a testimonial!

Maloney made the same mistake picking Caldwell. These guys are jokers.

I wasn’t a huge Liam Craig fan, but what’s he done to merit never being allowed into ER?

[MWHIBBIES]

I’ve not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but Gray’s biggest mistake and his inevitable downfall will be his choice in assistants. Publicly going after and failing to get Liam Fox and then ending up with Liam Craig and Samson. Liam Craig should never have been allowed back inside ER ever again. I couldn’t even believe he was welcomed back as a “legend” for a testimonial!

Maloney made the same mistake picking Caldwell. These guys are jokers.

Why would Craig not be allowed back?

[Hibs Go Bragh]

I wasn’t a huge Liam Craig fan, but what’s he done to merit never being allowed into ER?

An over exaggerated angry outburst for a guy I just can’t forgive😂

He captained us to relegation and if he’s allowed to continue in his current role he will be involved in another one. He should have been left in the past and not welcomed back imo.

None of the coaches are good enough to be here.

[Steve Austin]

An over exaggerated angry outburst for a guy I just can’t forgive😂

He captained us to relegation and if he’s allowed to continue in his current role he will be involved in another one. He should have been left in the past and not welcomed back imo.

None of the coaches are good enough to be here.


I agree I think our coaching staff are not good enough at first team level with maybe exemption of Samson gk coach (but if he thinks Bursik is good enough at this moment that’s a worry!!

we get all misty eyed over SDG HIBS legend etc yes ,manager no I’m afraid and he’s been on staff of 4 sacked managers remember; part of failure..

Hibs at last need to get there act together here accepting they are failing to recruit the correct Head Coach time and time again .. Go with a proven management team that has won things and proven to better players and play with a swagger and attacking football!
look in German league or Scandinavia ?..Other clubs have had success look at Brighton ,Sheffield Wednesday and Aberdeen ?
why can’t we it’s so frustrating as fans .. This club should not be at bottom of league it’s actually embarrassing.we are being failed by the people who run our club !!:confused:

[Jones28]

An over exaggerated angry outburst for a guy I just can’t forgive😂

He captained us to relegation and if he’s allowed to continue in his current role he will be involved in another one. He should have been left in the past and not welcomed back imo.

None of the coaches are good enough to be here.

Yogi did the same and managed the club.

[McD]

I’ve not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but Gray’s biggest mistake and his inevitable downfall will be his choice in assistants. Publicly going after and failing to get Liam Fox and then ending up with Liam Craig and Samson. Liam Craig should never have been allowed back inside ER ever again. I couldn’t even believe he was welcomed back as a “legend” for a testimonial!

Maloney made the same mistake picking Caldwell. These guys are jokers.



Did we publicly go after Fox? Was there ever a word uttered by someone from Hibs officially confirming we’d went for him?


It’s accepted we did try to get him, but it’s a bit much to say we publicly went after him, we did so quietly and respectfully, only for it to be leaked elsewhere

[Hibs Go Bragh]

Did we publicly go after Fox? Was there ever a word uttered by someone from Hibs officially confirming we’d went for him?


It’s accepted we did try to get him, but it’s a bit much to say we publicly went after him, we did so quietly and respectfully, only for it to be leaked elsewhere

Tbh I’m not sure why I mentioned public. My point was more about how we ended up with Liam Craig after everyone knew we wanted someone else first. I agree the club did the right thing only for it to be leaked elsewhere so apologies for that. I just needed to have an outburst about LC 😂

[heretoday]

Another case of a Hibee legend tarnishing his legacy by being in the hot seat.
We lose Sunday he's gone.

[Since452]

Another case of a Hibee legend tarnishing his legacy by being in the hot seat.
We lose Sunday he's gone.

And it's really tough to take. We all want him to be a success but I suspect you're right. He's still not getting is as tight as Montgomery and Maloney did, even Johnson because of who he is but I suspect a derby defeat might change that. It's sad but he really shouldn't have been given the job.

[McD]

Tbh I’m not sure why I mentioned public. My point was more about how we ended up with Liam Craig after everyone knew we wanted someone else first. I agree the club did the right thing only for it to be leaked elsewhere so apologies for that. I just needed to have an outburst about LC 😂



:greengrin All good, no excuses needed for a rant with how things are just now

[mcfly]

Another case of a Hibee legend tarnishing his legacy by being in the hot seat.
We lose Sunday he's gone.

Why should David gray be the fall guy?

Why not Kensell? Why not Mackay?

The whole club is a shambles

[Callum_62]

Why should David gray be the fall guy?

Why not Kensell? Why not Mackay?

The whole club is a shamblesWith a 11 percent win rate, the manager of course takes that burden

1 win in 9 with a loss Hearts hot on the heels of throwing away 2 goals in injury time and of course the manager is under pressure

It's our worst start that I can remember - so far Gray has been a disaster of appointment

That doesn't mean it's the only issue but with such a terrible start it's easy to see our head coach will be under pressure

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[c31]

Unfortunately one of our heroes is facing the sack, most of us could see it coming at the appointment but the club comes first. Maybe he should get someone with experience to give him a hand for a few months, he should give Alex McLeish a call and see if he's up for a mentoring roll till Christmas, he couldn't make it any worse.

[the tornadoe]

Could it be SDG got the job as no one else credible applied ? Hibs are/ were hardly an attractive gig for a manager with proven track record, credibility within the game etc.

I can imagine a scenario where SDG was the only name the fans would get behind and support albeit with some reservations .

[Cabbage-Patch]

Unfortunately one of our heroes is facing the sack, most of us could see it coming at the appointment but the club comes first. Maybe he should get someone with experience to give him a hand for a few months, he should give Alex McLeish a call and see if he's up for a mentoring roll till Christmas, he couldn't make it any worse.

Can't think of anything more embarrassing tbh.

"I'm so out my depth I need to be mentored on how to do my job"

He should never have been given the job in the 1st place. He's been defensive coach during the tenure of at least the 3 previous managers. A defence which has been shambolic throughout and been responsible for getting them all sacked. He should have been emptied long ago. He will always be a club legend for that goal but there's no room for sentiment in football I'm afraid. Another disaster of an appointment from our illustrious golden quadrant.

Only benefit of us going down this year may mean they sell up.

[Callum_62]

Could it be SDG got the job as no one else credible applied ? Hibs are/ were hardly an attractive gig for a manager with proven track record, credibility within the game etc.

I can imagine a scenario where SDG was the only name the fans would get behind and support albeit with some reservations .I think that's wholly unrealistic

Countless managers would want this job as well as others seen as "basket cases"



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[the tornadoe]

I think that's wholly unrealistic

Countless managers would want this job as well as others seen as "basket cases"



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Do you honestly think so ? Genuine question...

Given our appointments since Jack Ross, Maloney & Gray were / are experiments, Monty was a not an experienced manager in Scotland/ UK and Johnson was probably the only one with a track record albeit both good and bad..

[He's here!]

An over exaggerated angry outburst for a guy I just can’t forgive😂

He captained us to relegation and if he’s allowed to continue in his current role he will be involved in another one. He should have been left in the past and not welcomed back imo.

None of the coaches are good enough to be here.

Craig was one of the better players in what had become a desperately poor Hibs team. He wasn't to blame for us going down.

[andrew_dundee]

Our next manager needs to be someone who knows and understands the league and has experienced some success in it.

Whatever we think of these players, we do not have the worst team in the league on paper and should not on the pitch.

We all want SDG to succeed, but a better and more experienced manager would have the same players playing better and know how to close games rather than throwing away points.

[Northernhibee]

Our next manager needs to be someone who knows and understands the league and has experienced some success in it.

Whatever we think of these players, we do not have the worst team in the league on paper and should not on the pitch.

We all want SDG to succeed, but a better and more experienced manager would have the same players playing better and know how to close games rather than throwing away points.

With every respect, the first paragraph describes SDG and the remainder has been used word for word about the last few managers.

The manager isn’t the problem, and hasn’t been for Montgomery, Johnson, Maloney, or Ross. And that’s coming from someone who wanted the latter three out at the time but accepted he was likely wrong.

[B.H.F.C]

With every respect, the first paragraph describes SDG and the remainder has been used word for word about the last few managers.

The manager isn’t the problem, and hasn’t been for Montgomery, Johnson, Maloney, or Ross. And that’s coming from someone who wanted the latter three out at the time but accepted he was likely wrong.

See on one hand, I totally agree that the managers aren’t the fundamental issue at the club. It can’t always be down to the manager being crap.

But on the other hand, they’ve all been a contributing factor. With Gray, so far, he’s made some really poor decisions that he didn’t have to make.

Because of the idiots running the club, I think it’s too easy to say that it’s not down to the manager. They’ve all been a big part in how crap it’s been. Whilst I don’t think we have a brilliant squad (miles from it) I think Gray and Montgomery have both failed to get as much as they should from it. Johnson did at times and I thought Maloney was the unlucky one with what he had to work with.

[Northernhibee]

See on one hand, I totally agree that the managers aren’t the fundamental issue at the club. It can’t always be down to the manager being crap.

But on the other hand, they’ve all been a contributing factor. With Gray, so far, he’s made some really poor decisions that he didn’t have to make.

Because of the idiots running the club, I think it’s too easy to say that it’s not down to the manager. They’ve all been a big part in how crap it’s been. Whilst I don’t think we have a brilliant squad (miles from it) I think Gray and Montgomery have both failed to get as much as they should from it. Johnson did at times and I thought Maloney was the unlucky one with what he had to work with.

Problem is, I think it’s the easy thing to say that it’s the manager. It’s easier to think that if we roll the dice again we’ll make things better but we have a total hodgepodge of a squad where we still don’t know who we should play in midfield, on the wing, don’t have a particularly good striker to play up front and can’t concentrate for ninety minutes.

We need to sort the top of the club out before we can make effective change underneath. It also likely means a spell of ensuring more ***** football which is why it’s a difficult view to take.

[B.H.F.C]

Problem is, I think it’s the easy thing to say that it’s the manager. It’s easier to think that if we roll the dice again we’ll make things better but we have a total hodgepodge of a squad where we still don’t know who we should play in midfield, on the wing, don’t have a particularly good striker to play up front and can’t concentrate for ninety minutes.

We need to sort the top of the club out before we can make effective change underneath. It also likely means a spell of ensuring more ***** football which is why it’s a difficult view to take.

You’ll no catch me arguing about the need to sort out the positions above the manager. We absolutely need to do that. Whilst being miles away from having the best squad in the league, I don’t think it’s the worst either and between the manager and the players themselves we need to be getting better results than we are.

Sadly, I don’t see any significant change other than another manager losing their job any time soon.

[GreenCastle]

See on one hand, I totally agree that the managers aren’t the fundamental issue at the club. It can’t always be down to the manager being crap.

But on the other hand, they’ve all been a contributing factor. With Gray, so far, he’s made some really poor decisions that he didn’t have to make.

Because of the idiots running the club, I think it’s too easy to say that it’s not down to the manager. They’ve all been a big part in how crap it’s been. Whilst I don’t think we have a brilliant squad (miles from it) I think Gray and Montgomery have both failed to get as much as they should from it. Johnson did at times and I thought Maloney was the unlucky one with what he had to work with.

True - hard to think of one player Gray has improved so far ???

The recruitment team choosing the manager's and signing crap players had been a major issue.

Therefore if have had some dodgy managers but the folk in charge keep choosing the wrong candidate so they are responsible but keep making the same mistakes and we wonder why we are getting worse.

[andrew_dundee]

With every respect, the first paragraph describes SDG and the remainder has been used word for word about the last few managers.

The manager isn’t the problem, and hasn’t been for Montgomery, Johnson, Maloney, or Ross. And that’s coming from someone who wanted the latter three out at the time but accepted he was likely wrong.

None of the last few managers have experienced success in the SPL prior to being appointed by Hibs (and sadly none of them did with us either :p)

There's plenty of blame for the board though, they have made the recruitments etc in the first place. It's probably the most important decision they are paid to make and they have got it wrong time and again.

This appointment was always going to be a tricky one, especially after so much disappointment, so should have gone to someone who had managed in the SPL and not done badly.

[Ozyhibby]

Our problems go far beyond the manager but that doesn’t mean that the manger isn’t a problem.
When we talk about McGinnis there are no shortage of posters saying he won’t come to Hibs because we won’t give him proper control over transfers etc.
That tells you everything you need to know about Gray. He’s a Yes man. He’ll do what he’s told. He has no clout to say no to the owners or upper management. He hires rookie coaches in their first jobs to work under him. He can’t even drop wildly under performing players. He’s a patsy.
It’s depressing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

Our problems go far beyond the manager but that doesn’t mean that the manger isn’t a problem.
When we talk about McGinnis there are no shortage of posters saying he won’t come to Hibs because we won’t give him proper control over transfers etc.
That tells you everything you need to know about Gray. He’s a Yes man. He’ll do what he’s told. He has no clout to say no to the owners or upper management. He hires rookie coaches in their first jobs to work under him. He can’t even drop wildly under performing players. He’s a patsy.
It’s depressing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It doesn’t tell you anything about Gray, and calling him a patsy is neither necessary or fair unless you can back it up with something more tangible than Gray accepted a job - like hundreds of heads coaches at clubs around the world - that operates with a Sporting Director or Director of Football.

The results have been brutal so far and i get the anger and the frustration but there’s some amount of crap being posted about people that is totally unjustified imho.


I don’t think Gray is a yes man, he picked his own backroom team, said no to Bonke Innocent because he wanted Triantis, has sidelined recent signings like Amos because he wants to play his own players - straight away there’s evidence where he could have just done what the club wanted (assuming for one moment that someone above him is trying to pull his strings).

Who do we think he’s a patsy to? Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell brought Malky in in May to run the football side of the club because they saw they weren’t getting it right.

We all wanted change at the top, for the root and branch change and that’s happening, but because everything isn’t brilliant after five months we’ve got folk just posting abuse at Gray, or Mackay, or Kensell or Gordon.

I’m not a fan of any one of the folk above Gray, but I can see that there’s been action taken to improve things, and I can accept those improvements aren’t going to be overnight.

Gray has to get it right on the pitch, he was backed with way more players than we were told to expect in the summer window, including two targets in Myko and Triantis who were signings he prioritised - not the action of a yes man - and so he needs to start winning games. Whether or not he’s able to do that remains to be seen, but throwing out insults isn’t helping anyone.

[HoboHarry]

It doesn’t tell you anything about Gray, and calling him a patsy is neither necessary or fair unless you can back it up with something more tangible than Gray accepted a job - like hundreds of heads coaches at clubs around the world - that operates with a Sporting Director or Director of Football.

The results have been brutal so far and i get the anger and the frustration but there’s some amount of crap being posted about people that is totally unjustified imho.


I don’t think Gray is a yes man, he picked his own backroom team, said no to Bonke Innocent because he wanted Triantis, has sidelined recent signings like Amos because he wants to play his own players - straight away there’s evidence where he could have just done what the club wanted (assuming for one moment that someone above him is trying to pull his strings).

Who do we think he’s a patsy to? Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell brought Malky in in May to run the football side of the club because they saw they weren’t getting it right.

We all wanted change at the top, for the root and branch change and that’s happening, but because everything isn’t brilliant after five months we’ve got folk just posting abuse at Gray, or Mackay, or Kensell or Gordon.

I’m not a fan of any one of the folk above Gray, but I can see that there’s been action taken to improve things, and I can accept those improvements aren’t going to be overnight.

Gray has to get it right on the pitch, he was backed with way more players than we were told to expect in the summer window, including two targets in Myko and Triantis who were signings he prioritised - not the action of a yes man - and so he needs to start winning games. Whether or not he’s able to do that remains to be seen, but throwing out insults isn’t helping anyone.

Bravo Matty, a genuine voice of reason which is becoming hard to find on this site.

[Iain G]

It doesn’t tell you anything about Gray, and calling him a patsy is neither necessary or fair unless you can back it up with something more tangible than Gray accepted a job - like hundreds of heads coaches at clubs around the world - that operates with a Sporting Director or Director of Football.

The results have been brutal so far and i get the anger and the frustration but there’s some amount of crap being posted about people that is totally unjustified imho.


I don’t think Gray is a yes man, he picked his own backroom team, said no to Bonke Innocent because he wanted Triantis, has sidelined recent signings like Amos because he wants to play his own players - straight away there’s evidence where he could have just done what the club wanted (assuming for one moment that someone above him is trying to pull his strings).

Who do we think he’s a patsy to? Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell brought Malky in in May to run the football side of the club because they saw they weren’t getting it right.

We all wanted change at the top, for the root and branch change and that’s happening, but because everything isn’t brilliant after five months we’ve got folk just posting abuse at Gray, or Mackay, or Kensell or Gordon.

I’m not a fan of any one of the folk above Gray, but I can see that there’s been action taken to improve things, and I can accept those improvements aren’t going to be overnight.

Gray has to get it right on the pitch, he was backed with way more players than we were told to expect in the summer window, including two targets in Myko and Triantis who were signings he prioritised - not the action of a yes man - and so he needs to start winning games. Whether or not he’s able to do that remains to be seen, but throwing out insults isn’t helping anyone.

Saying no to Bonke Innocent should be a sacking offence in itself 🤣😁

Great, balanced post Matty. The language and vitriol and petty name calling being thrown around is just nonsense and adds nothing to any debate or discussion.

[Bobby's Cinema]

It doesn’t tell you anything about Gray, and calling him a patsy is neither necessary or fair unless you can back it up with something more tangible than Gray accepted a job - like hundreds of heads coaches at clubs around the world - that operates with a Sporting Director or Director of Football.

The results have been brutal so far and i get the anger and the frustration but there’s some amount of crap being posted about people that is totally unjustified imho.


I don’t think Gray is a yes man, he picked his own backroom team, said no to Bonke Innocent because he wanted Triantis, has sidelined recent signings like Amos because he wants to play his own players - straight away there’s evidence where he could have just done what the club wanted (assuming for one moment that someone above him is trying to pull his strings).

Who do we think he’s a patsy to? Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell brought Malky in in May to run the football side of the club because they saw they weren’t getting it right.

We all wanted change at the top, for the root and branch change and that’s happening, but because everything isn’t brilliant after five months we’ve got folk just posting abuse at Gray, or Mackay, or Kensell or Gordon.

I’m not a fan of any one of the folk above Gray, but I can see that there’s been action taken to improve things, and I can accept those improvements aren’t going to be overnight.

Gray has to get it right on the pitch, he was backed with way more players than we were told to expect in the summer window, including two targets in Myko and Triantis who were signings he prioritised - not the action of a yes man - and so he needs to start winning games. Whether or not he’s able to do that remains to be seen, but throwing out insults isn’t helping anyone.
Great post :aok: Desperate for him to turn things round.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Why should David gray be the fall guy?

Why not Kensell? Why not Mackay?

The whole club is a shambles

Because every defeat is a disaster.

If the owners have any backbone then they have to stick with Gray - they have spent 5 years seeing if he was up to the job and they decided he was - they must have seen something in him and he hasn't lost that in 10 games.

Things change very quickly - the Aberdeen owners were a joke - they sacked McInnes, brought in Robson, sacked him after a year, brought in Warnock and got rid of him after a few games, they sold their best player - how could any owners be worse than that? Then they get even worse and gamble on some guy noone has heard of - but after 10 games all the bad stuff is forgotten and they are all very clever. Let's see what happens by the end of the season.

There is still time for Gray to come good.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It doesn’t tell you anything about Gray, and calling him a patsy is neither necessary or fair unless you can back it up with something more tangible than Gray accepted a job - like hundreds of heads coaches at clubs around the world - that operates with a Sporting Director or Director of Football.

The results have been brutal so far and i get the anger and the frustration but there’s some amount of crap being posted about people that is totally unjustified imho.


I don’t think Gray is a yes man, he picked his own backroom team, said no to Bonke Innocent because he wanted Triantis, has sidelined recent signings like Amos because he wants to play his own players - straight away there’s evidence where he could have just done what the club wanted (assuming for one moment that someone above him is trying to pull his strings).

Who do we think he’s a patsy to? Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell brought Malky in in May to run the football side of the club because they saw they weren’t getting it right.

We all wanted change at the top, for the root and branch change and that’s happening, but because everything isn’t brilliant after five months we’ve got folk just posting abuse at Gray, or Mackay, or Kensell or Gordon.

I’m not a fan of any one of the folk above Gray, but I can see that there’s been action taken to improve things, and I can accept those improvements aren’t going to be overnight.

Gray has to get it right on the pitch, he was backed with way more players than we were told to expect in the summer window, including two targets in Myko and Triantis who were signings he prioritised - not the action of a yes man - and so he needs to start winning games. Whether or not he’s able to do that remains to be seen, but throwing out insults isn’t helping anyone.

👏

There’s so much hysteria and hyperbole on here. Hopefully folk will read this and reflect a wee bit.

[Forza Fred]

It doesn’t tell you anything about Gray, and calling him a patsy is neither necessary or fair unless you can back it up with something more tangible than Gray accepted a job - like hundreds of heads coaches at clubs around the world - that operates with a Sporting Director or Director of Football.

The results have been brutal so far and i get the anger and the frustration but there’s some amount of crap being posted about people that is totally unjustified imho.


I don’t think Gray is a yes man, he picked his own backroom team, said no to Bonke Innocent because he wanted Triantis, has sidelined recent signings like Amos because he wants to play his own players - straight away there’s evidence where he could have just done what the club wanted (assuming for one moment that someone above him is trying to pull his strings).

Who do we think he’s a patsy to? Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell brought Malky in in May to run the football side of the club because they saw they weren’t getting it right.

We all wanted change at the top, for the root and branch change and that’s happening, but because everything isn’t brilliant after five months we’ve got folk just posting abuse at Gray, or Mackay, or Kensell or Gordon.

I’m not a fan of any one of the folk above Gray, but I can see that there’s been action taken to improve things, and I can accept those improvements aren’t going to be overnight.

Gray has to get it right on the pitch, he was backed with way more players than we were told to expect in the summer window, including two targets in Myko and Triantis who were signings he prioritised - not the action of a yes man - and so he needs to start winning games. Whether or not he’s able to do that remains to be seen, but throwing out insults isn’t helping anyone.

I don’t think anybody expected things to be ‘brilliant’ overnight, but I sure did expect some degree of improvement after 5 months.

When the controversial appointment of Mackay arose, he asked us not to judge him on his past but on what he does here.

Well, he’s had 5 months and the cold hard fact is we are bottom of the league.

Most places I’ve worked at who appoint a new manager for an under performing division of the company don’t expect an overnight turnaround either, but the DO expect to see some improvement.

The league table suggests that’s not happening.

The football department appears to be no less a shambles now than it was when Mackay came and he’s had 5 months to show what he can do!

I’m sorry Mattie, but I can’t see how he is suddenly going to turn things around, and he should be the first out the door.

As they say, ‘the fish rots from the head down’.

[GreenCastle]

David Gray is certainly up against it if he wants to keep his job..I want him to do well but he and his staff aren’t exactly helping themselves here..previous managers had similar lists too before getting sacked.

Kelty Hearts defeat
Knocked out league cup before Hampden (though Celtic away tricky)
1 win in 9 - 4 home games - 1 against Old Firm
No away wins
Most goals conceded in last 15 mins (0 scored and 7 let in)
Bottom of the league (1 game in hand)
Defeats to Motherwell, Utd and St Mirren - 8v3 score line against in these games
Fewest goals scored
Worse goalkeeper than last season
Worse centre backs than last season
Worse captain than last season
Still not fully qualified for the role without his UEFA Pro licence if Hibs to make Europe …
Not one player actually improving ? Possibly Triantis
Poor discipline- 2 reds already in 9 games
Dodgy subs / lack of subs when players are on yellows or tired
Team selection issues - Campbell last week..Miller fatigued this week after Oz games.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I don’t think anybody expected things to be ‘brilliant’ overnight, but I sure did expect some degree of improvement after 5 months.

When the controversial appointment of Mackay arose, he asked us not to judge him on his past but on what he does here.

Well, he’s had 5 months and the cold hard fact is we are bottom of the league.

Most places I’ve worked at who appoint a new manager for an under performing division of the company don’t expect an overnight turnaround either, but the DO expect to see some improvement.

The league table suggests that’s not happening.

The football department appears to be no less a shambles now than it was when Mackay came and he’s had 5 months to show what he can do!

I’m sorry Mattie, but I can’t see how he is suddenly going to turn things around, and he should be the first out the door.

As they say, ‘the fish rots from the head down’.

What did/do you expect to see from a director of football in his first 4-5 months?

[easty]

What did/do you expect to see from a director of football in his first 4-5 months?

I’m no even sure what I expect to see from him long term?

What is Mackay to be judged on? KPIs?

[we are hibs]

.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I’m no even sure what I expect to see from him long term?

What is Mackay to be judged on? KPIs?

That’s what I’m asking - he’s being judged and written off but not sure what the measure is.

[bingo70]

What did/do you expect to see from a director of football in his first 4-5 months?

You never asked me but I’m answering anyway 😃. I expected a better transfer window and don’t agree with his first managerial appointment. I thought one of his strengths was the contacts and relationships he had built up in the game. I thought we would see some evidence of that straight away.

I was all for the appointment of Mackay and he might still come good, I’ve been disappointed so far though and that includes his latest interview after the transfer window closed that I thought was very poor, said things in that interview that I thought was nonsense and didn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

[Danderhall Hibs]

You never asked me but I’m answering anyway 😃. I expected a better transfer window and don’t agree with his first managerial appointment. I thought one of his strengths was the contacts and relationships he had built up in the game. I thought we would see some evidence of that straight away.

I was all for the appointment of Mackay and he might still come good, I’ve been disappointed so far though and that includes his latest interview after the transfer window closed that I thought was very poor, said things in that interview that I thought was nonsense and didn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

It’s still early after the transfer window to have written it off. 2 games ago there were a lot of people saying that it had been a good window and we were stronger than before.

How would we know if we’d seen evidence of his contacts and relationships?

As for the interview - I think they’re better not bothering sometimes, although doing that obviously attracts a different criticism as I’ve seen on the Kensell Out threads.

[Forza Fred]

What did/do you expect to see from a director of football in his first 4-5 months?

Some improvement.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Some improvement.

On the field? Yeah we’d all like that - that’s primarily the manager and coaching team’s role. What improvements would you expect to see the DOF make in the 4-5 months he’s been here?

The DoF is supposed to be a longer term term strategic role - binning one of them every time we have 1 win in 9 wouldn’t work (imo).

[Trinity Hibee]

On the field? Yeah we’d all like that - that’s primarily the manager and coaching team’s role. What improvements would you expect to see the DOF make in the 4-5 months he’s been here?

The DoF is supposed to be a longer term term strategic role - binning one of them every time we have 1 win in 9 wouldn’t work (imo).

Is DoF involved in identifying players and discussing them with the manager?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is DoF involved in identifying players and discussing them with the manager?

Yeah he oversees the recruitment process.

Sounds like he’s having to put one in place after the shambles of successive managers and a dormant DOF and the last window was an interim position, where he used his contacts (?) to get players in to tide us over until next summer when the new process will be in place and we have the mass clear out that successive seasons of turnover have made inevitable.

[Trinity Hibee]

Yeah he oversees the recruitment process.

Sounds like he’s having to put one in place after the shambles of successive managers and a dormant DOF and the last window was an interim position, where he used his contacts (?) to get players in to tide us over until next summer when the new process will be in place and we have the mass clear out that successive seasons of turnover have made inevitable.

Ok so next summers signings will be the acid test for him. I’d like to think he’s already identifying players and making our interest known with agents given so many of the squad are out of contract in the summer

[easty]

Ok so next summers signings will be the acid test for him. I’d like to think he’s already identifying players and making our interest known with agents given so many of the squad are out of contract in the summer

Why wasn’t this summer the test?

He gets a free hit?

[Paulie Walnuts]

You never asked me but I’m answering anyway 😃. I expected a better transfer window and don’t agree with his first managerial appointment. I thought one of his strengths was the contacts and relationships he had built up in the game. I thought we would see some evidence of that straight away.

I was all for the appointment of Mackay and he might still come good, I’ve been disappointed so far though and that includes his latest interview after the transfer window closed that I thought was very poor, said things in that interview that I thought was nonsense and didn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

:agree:

I didn’t want Mackay in at all.

So far though, he’s made a managerial appointment that made zero sense and is unfolding disastrously, he appointed David Marshall into a role with a fancy title that he’s never done before (although we’ve seen at Hibs that fancy titles often mean **** all to be fair), and he’s missed out on Luke McCowan (which is fair enough) but then had no back up plan, leaving us with Josh Campbell to play as a 10 in a position that we obviously deemed important enough to be blasting £1m on. He played his part in signing a goalie that looks absolutely horrific and two centre half’s that look really poor.

I personally would deem managerial appointments and transfers to be the most important parts of his job. He’s failed miserably in both.

I also don’t see how there’s been root and branch change. I’m yet to see how Mackays role is root and branch change and not just a rebranding of McDermotts role.

[He's here!]

It doesn’t tell you anything about Gray, and calling him a patsy is neither necessary or fair unless you can back it up with something more tangible than Gray accepted a job - like hundreds of heads coaches at clubs around the world - that operates with a Sporting Director or Director of Football.

The results have been brutal so far and i get the anger and the frustration but there’s some amount of crap being posted about people that is totally unjustified imho.


I don’t think Gray is a yes man, he picked his own backroom team, said no to Bonke Innocent because he wanted Triantis, has sidelined recent signings like Amos because he wants to play his own players - straight away there’s evidence where he could have just done what the club wanted (assuming for one moment that someone above him is trying to pull his strings).

Who do we think he’s a patsy to? Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell brought Malky in in May to run the football side of the club because they saw they weren’t getting it right.

We all wanted change at the top, for the root and branch change and that’s happening, but because everything isn’t brilliant after five months we’ve got folk just posting abuse at Gray, or Mackay, or Kensell or Gordon.

I’m not a fan of any one of the folk above Gray, but I can see that there’s been action taken to improve things, and I can accept those improvements aren’t going to be overnight.

Gray has to get it right on the pitch, he was backed with way more players than we were told to expect in the summer window, including two targets in Myko and Triantis who were signings he prioritised - not the action of a yes man - and so he needs to start winning games. Whether or not he’s able to do that remains to be seen, but throwing out insults isn’t helping anyone.

I don't think Gray is a yes man either. I hope against hope that he manages to turn things around but the pressure is building fast and the BBC have already run their 'What's gone wrong with Gray and Hibs' article, which is more or less a repeat of a similar article they ran about Naismith days before he was sacked.

Only results will save him but we've been churning out brutal results for years now and I can't really buy into the view that five months isn't long enough for the new set-up under Mackay to have made at least SOME sort of positive difference in that respect. The only difference so far is that things have got even worse.

[Trinity Hibee]

Why wasn’t this summer the test?

He gets a free hit?

I guess the main reason is due to the number of players out of contract so it should allow for a mass overhaul. Whilst I’d like to have seen improvement already it’s probably a bit unrealistic given the contracts that have been handed out and players refusing to move on

[easty]

I sympathise with SDG if the players we signed were forced on him rather than he got who he wanted, but you still have to get the best out of what you have, and he’s not.

We’re nae less fragile than last season. The footballs terrible.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Why wasn’t this summer the test?

He gets a free hit?

It’s not a free hit but there is context to the short term nature due to the shambles the constant turnover (of which we seem to be demanding more of?) has created.

It will still be judged however but would think that it would be after more than 8 games.

[matty_f]

Some improvement.

In what area that the Sporting Director directly impacts?

Regardless of whether it’s Malky or someone else (and to be clear, I voiced my concerns about his appointment from the outset), the very nature of that job is set on long term improvements.

If we take Bingo’s expectation of an immediate improvement in recruitment, Malky’s job is to make sure that the right people, processes, and systems are in place to give us the best chance of signing good players. He’s not the guy sitting trawling through footage etc to get the targets, he’s not got time for that and it’s fundamentally not his job. He’s on the hook for making sure the folk who do that job do it well enough and have the tools to do it.

That work isn’t done overnight, and the results of it certainly can’t be seen in the immediate weeks following his appointment (with recruitment being only one aspect of his role). Malky’s recruitment set up couldn’t possibly have been implemented in time for the window he arrived in. You can see from the signings we made that they are a mix of finishing deals put in place before Malky, opportunistic signings that became available, and players that SDG wanted. I don’t think there was a whole lot more Malky or anyone else coming into that role could have done with the tools and time they had available.

Malky’s job is to look at everything that underpins the team(s)’ performance on a matchday, from data analysis and sport science to the quality of coaches to the type of equipment the players use to warm up etc.


Using the latter example, if he knows that we need 11 spin bikes in to improve the warm up, spends the money to get them, you don’t all of a sudden see the first team win 3-0 because of it, but we know they help and are an improvement.

That’s Malky’s job. We don’t know what’s improved yet and won’t for a while because that’s the nature of his job.

[easty]

I guess the main reason is due to the number of players out of contract so it should allow for a mass overhaul. Whilst I’d like to have seen improvement already it’s probably a bit unrealistic given the contracts that have been handed out and players refusing to move on

We’ve signed a starting goalie, 2 starting centre halfs, 2 starting centre mids, a first choice striker and a first choice winger.

That’s the spine of a team, and more. You’re no gonnae get much closer to a clean slate to sort a team out.

[Iain G]

I still feel very uninspired by his coaching team, just feels it's missing a good bit of experience in there? Is Malkay filling in that role?

[Danderhall Hibs]

We’ve signed a starting goalie, 2 starting centre halfs, 2 starting centre mids, a first choice striker and a first choice winger.

That’s the spine of a team, and more. You’re no gonnae get much closer to a clean slate to sort a team out.

4 loans plus a 1 year deal from those 7 signings? Sounds like an interim “do what we can” window before the real work starts?

[flash]

We’ve signed a starting goalie, 2 starting centre halfs, 2 starting centre mids, a first choice striker and a first choice winger.

That’s the spine of a team, and more. You’re no gonnae get much closer to a clean slate to sort a team out.

After saying we wouldn't be replacing the whole team we did exactly that.

We can all argue about the success of each particular signing but SDG was definitely backed in the summer.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I still feel very uninspired by his coaching team, just feels it's missing a good bit of experience in there? Is Malkay filling in that role?

I doubt it and wouldn’t expect him to be. Although I do agree the coaching team could do with an older head - unless Eddie May is expected to be that? It looks like the manager was picked and he was allowed to pick his own team without the club imposing someone on him.

[matty_f]

I don't think Gray is a yes man either. I hope against hope that he manages to turn things around but the pressure is building fast and the BBC have already run their 'What's gone wrong with Gray and Hibs' article, which is more or less a repeat of a similar article they ran about Naismith days before he was sacked.

Only results will save him but we've been churning out brutal results for years now and I can't really buy into the view that five months isn't long enough for the new set-up under Mackay to have made at least SOME sort of positive difference in that respect. The only difference so far is that things have got even worse.
Again, i think what you’re looking for with the improvement is results on a Saturday. Malky’s impact on that was to hire SDG and get the best players he could with what he had, once the window shuts it’s over to SDG to manage that part.

What part of Saturday’s result or the Motherwell result do you think Malky should have got involved with?

[He's here!]

Yeah he oversees the recruitment process.

Sounds like he’s having to put one in place after the shambles of successive managers and a dormant DOF and the last window was an interim position, where he used his contacts (?) to get players in to tide us over until next summer when the new process will be in place and we have the mass clear out that successive seasons of turnover have made inevitable.

They're not 'tiding us over' tho are they? A number of lengthy contracts have been handed out and a significant clear-out has already taken place. If the process isn't working why sign virtually a whole new team using a flawed method?

I find it hard to buy into claims it will take a full year to alter our signing strategy.

[Iain G]

4 loans plus a 1 year deal from those 7 signings? Sounds like an interim “do what we can” window before the real work starts?

Bowie feels part of the real work, maybe the two centre halfs and Nicky Cadden...some of the rest is make do and mend until next summer.

Kwon and Triantis are both two good loan additions though.

[easty]

4 loans plus a 1 year deal from those 7 signings? Sounds like an interim “do what we can” window before the real work starts?

We’ll always have loans. Loans have to be an important part of our recruitment. Treat them like any other signing, make sure it’s a player with the right attitude and the attributes needed to play in the role we need them in.

[bingo70]

It’s still early after the transfer window to have written it off. 2 games ago there were a lot of people saying that it had been a good window and we were stronger than before.

How would we know if we’d seen evidence of his contacts and relationships?

As for the interview - I think they’re better not bothering sometimes, although doing that obviously attracts a different criticism as I’ve seen on the Kensell Out threads.

I disagree that it’s too early to write off the transfer window, at best it might turn out to be not as bad as first feared but it certainly wasn’t a good one. We’ve signed a centre half that is scared of getting passed a football and we are still reliant on Campbell contributing every week.

Evidence of contacts and relationships would come from transfer activity, including the managerial appointment. If some people thought it was a good transfer window a couple of games ago good luck to them but I certainly don’t agree. Real stroke of luck that one of his contacts happened to discover one of our players twin brother that never managed to find a club during pre-season and that he was the best player available to fill that role.

With regards to the interviews, I’m all for club communications, I think it’s important the club and people in important positions speak to the fans, what they say has to make sense though. He spoke about getting to a stage where we are only making one signing each summer, he must know that’s never going to happen, if he genuinely believed that he’s in the wrong job, especially on the back of a summer where we’ve signed multiple loan players. His earlier interview when he first joined us and gave a criteria the new manager would have to demonstrate sounded really positive at the time, i was disappointed he decided to abandon that because someone interviewed well though. I know some people feel Gray met the criteria he detailed in that interview but i disagree.

I’m not wanting Gray sacked, we appointed him so we need to back him up now, I think it’s perfectly understandable though people are annoyed as imo it was a decision that made no sense at the time.

[Danderhall Hibs]

They're not 'tiding us over' tho are they? A number of lengthy contracts have been handed out and a significant clear-out has already taken place. If the process isn't working why sign virtually a whole new team using a flawed method?

I find it hard to buy into claims it will take a full year to alter our signing strategy.

We have 12-14 players sitting waiting to be released in the summer due to the carnage that constant demands for a new manager has created. The new recruitment process may be ready but as there are transfer windows you won’t be able to see anything until they’re open - and I suspect the summer will be when, due to the players on the books we want rid off and the fact that January is a “notoriously difficult” window.

[Paulie Walnuts]

They're not 'tiding us over' tho are they? A number of lengthy contracts have been handed out and a significant clear-out has already taken place. If the process isn't working why sign virtually a whole new team using a flawed method?

I find it hard to buy into claims it will take a full year to alter our signing strategy.

Exactly what I’ve said previously.

We’ve come out of this summer with numerous players on long term deals who have been signed based on a transfer policy that we apparently had accepted prior to signing them doesn’t work.

We’re apparently waiting for summer 2025 to have a proper clear out and a reset. The out of contract players that you would expect to be the ones were ‘clearing out’ would be JDH, Kenneh, Amos, Rocky and McKirdy. The others are all playing most weeks, so I don’t think it would be fair to deem them to be players were waiting to clear out. 5 players then that were needing rid of to be able to have this reset. Yet this summer we’ve given multi year deals to Bowie, Ekpiteta, O’Hora, Cadden and Iredale, at least 3 of which look ****, 1 of them is injured for the season (we signed him injured) and the other looked alright on Saturday but has struggled to get into the team.

Surely doing that pretty much negates the reset we’re waiting to have?

[He's here!]

Again, i think what you’re looking for with the improvement is results on a Saturday. Malky’s impact on that was to hire SDG and get the best players he could with what he had, once the window shuts it’s over to SDG to manage that part.

What part of Saturday’s result or the Motherwell result do you think Malky should have got involved with?

He might be more involved on that side in the not too distant future. It's hard not to imagine a scenario whereby he steps into a caretaker manager role if Gray gets the sack.

I do take your point re Mackay's role, but the McCowan saga didn't, IMHO, leave him looking great during the transfer window and it's understandable that fans are sceptical about buying into a long-game strategy after years of decline and a dire start to this season.

[matty_f]

Exactly what I’ve said previously.

We’ve come out of this summer with numerous players on long term deals who have been signed based on a transfer policy that we apparently had accepted prior to signing them doesn’t work.

We’re apparently waiting for summer 2025 to have a proper clear out and a reset. The out of contract players that you would expect to be the ones were ‘clearing out’ would be JDH, Kenneh, Amos, Rocky and McKirdy. The others are all playing most weeks, so I don’t think it would be fair to deem them to be players were waiting to clear out. 5 players then that were needing rid of to be able to have this reset. Yet this summer we’ve given multi year deals to Bowie, Ekpiteta, O’Hora, Cadden and Iredale, at least 3 of which look ****, 1 of them is injured for the season (we signed him injured) and the other looked alright on Saturday but has struggled to get into the team.

That to me suggests our ‘reset’ is going to be negated by a bizarre decision to give out numerous multi year deals based off a transfer policy that we accepted prior to offering these deals didn’t work.

IMHO, that’s too simplistic a way of looking at what’s been said by the club about it and what’s happened. There were players signed early in the window whose moves were already on motion where the existing recruitment team (overseen by outgoing DoF, Brian McDermott) had done the work, that were concluded by Malky.

We don’t know the cost of the players coming in as apparent stop-gaps but it is safe to safe that it’s difficult to bring in any player of decent calibre on a one year deal (depending on factors like age, which can make an older player more willing to accept that), most professionals will want at least two years on a deal to consider signing so there is a practical reality in the transfer activity that - with the best will in the world - you can’t really get a one year team together without sacrificing on quality.

But even if you were to say that the players you mentioned on longer deals were the wrong guys to give longer deals to, because of the extent of the money freed up next summer, we’re probably comfortable that these guys can become the back up next summer, we’re going to need a squad and they just move from first team to back up.

On the face of it, I agree with you that it seems contradictory, but I think when you consider these things then you can see why it is that way. IMHO.

[matty_f]

He might be more involved on that side in the not too distant future. It's hard not to imagine a scenario whereby he steps into a caretaker manager role if Gray gets the sack.

I do take your point re Mackay's role, but the McCowan saga didn't, IMHO, leave him looking great during the transfer window and it's understandable that fans are sceptical about buying into a long-game strategy after years of decline and a dire start to this season.

Is only understandable until you think about what his job is though - because if you play out the alternative, say he’s failed already and we need to replace him, the next guy is going to also have no impact in a few months and we’ll be sacking them as well, starting again, and seeing the same results again.

That’s why, imho, when we know the scale of the job he has given the state we were in, there has to be some acknowledgement of what his job actually is, what he’s accountable for fixing and what that actually looks like in practice before demanding he’s emptied for the team being rubbish eight games into the season.


Again this isn’t really about Malky, I’ll reiterate that I’ve expressed my views and concerns repeatedly about his appointment, any appointment into that role has to have a medium to long term focus on it otherwise you never have a focusing to work from, everything is always being scrapped and started again but never concluded.

[Paulie Walnuts]

IMHO, that’s too simplistic a way of looking at what’s been said by the club about it and what’s happened. There were players signed early in the window whose moves were already on motion where the existing recruitment team (overseen by outgoing DoF, Brian McDermott) had done the work, that were concluded by Malky.

We don’t know the cost of the players coming in as apparent stop-gaps but it is safe to safe that it’s difficult to bring in any player of decent calibre on a one year deal (depending on factors like age, which can make an older player more willing to accept that), most professionals will want at least two years on a deal to consider signing so there is a practical reality in the transfer activity that - with the best will in the world - you can’t really get a one year team together without sacrificing on quality.

But even if you were to say that the players you mentioned on longer deals were the wrong guys to give longer deals to, because of the extent of the money freed up next summer, we’re probably comfortable that these guys can become the back up next summer, we’re going to need a squad and they just move from first team to back up.

On the face of it, I agree with you that it seems contradictory, but I think when you consider these things then you can see why it is that way. IMHO.

That doesn’t make sense to me. Just because the moves were in motion it doesn’t mean we needed to complete them. That to me just smacks of a half arsed approach where the easy option was to just sign them off because the work had already been done.

It would be interesting to know when the club identified the need for a new DOF/Sporting Director. If we identified it ages ago then why did we take so long to appoint one that they weren’t in a position to be ready for the summer window? Or was it identified as part of the review? I’d question whether that was the case though as we were told Mackay was around the club long before he was formally announced. It couldn’t have been much of an in depth review if the need for a rebrand of the DOF role was identified and Mackay then identified and approached etc was all done so quick. The first mutterings of Mackay being in the building (unofficially) were pretty much the same time as the review was announced if I recall correctly.

[GreenCastle]

We’ll always have loans. Loans have to be an important part of our recruitment. Treat them like any other signing, make sure it’s a player with the right attitude and the attributes needed to play in the role we need them in.

Having the spine of your team made of loans isn’t a great idea.

Keeper loan
CBS - not loans
CM - 2 loans
CF - loan

[matty_f]

That doesn’t make sense to me. Just because the moves were in motion it doesn’t mean we needed to complete them. That to me just smacks of a half arsed approach where the easy option was to just sign them off because the work had already been done.

It would be interesting to know when the club identified the need for a new DOF/Sporting Director. If we identified it ages ago then why did we take so long to appoint one that they weren’t in a position to be ready for the summer window? Or was it identified as part of the review? I’d question whether that was the case though as we were told Mackay was around the club long before he was formally announced. It couldn’t have been much of an in depth review if the need for a rebrand of the DOF role was identified and Mackay then identified and approached etc was all done so quick. The first mutterings of Mackay being in the building (unofficially) were pretty much the same time as the review was announced if I recall correctly.

You’re right that they didn’t need to be concluded but being pragmatic, they were (certainly in the centre halves and goalie’s cases) priority positions so if you’re coming in brand new to the process your choice is either start again from scratch or work as best you can with what you’ve got.

I think the option they took was the lesser of two evils, tbh.


IMHO the real culprit for the summer window was Brian McDermott, he was an awful DoF but recruitment was supposed to be his big skill. Blaming the guys trying to fix the mess is harsh.

And the review stuff - totally agree. I’m actually more of the opinion now that the outcome of the review being that we needed a Scottish core to the set up was arrived at to justify hiring Malky rather than Malky arriving on the back of the recommendation from the review.

[easty]

Having the spine of your team made of loans isn’t a great idea.

Keeper loan
CBS - not loans
CM - 2 loans
CF - loan

Why isn’t it a great idea?

It only doesn’t work if you don’t sign the right loan players, same goes for all signings.

Dundee Utd just beat us with a loan keeper, loan centre half, loan centre mid and loan striker starting.

[easty]

You’re right that they didn’t need to be concluded but being pragmatic, they were (certainly in the centre halves and goalie’s cases) priority positions so if you’re coming in brand new to the process your choice is either start again from scratch or work as best you can with what you’ve got.

I think the option they took was the lesser of two evils, tbh.




If the situation was as you describe it, then I’d say the option they took was one of culpable deniability.

If it works, great. If it doesn’t…wasnae my fault.

[matty_f]

If the situation was as you describe it, then I’d say the option they took was one of culpable deniability.

If it works, great. If it doesn’t…wasnae my fault.

You could look at it that way but I haven’t heard any of them disown the recruitment.

I think it is what it is though - we had a DoF whose key strength was supposed to be recruitment and he left us with a set up that needed binned and started again.

[easty]

You could look at it that way but I haven’t heard any of them disown the recruitment.

I think it is what it is though - we had a DoF whose key strength was supposed to be recruitment and he left us with a set up that needed binned and started again.

There’s nae denying that the previous set up left things in a mess,

I just really expected better over the summer, and it’s frustrating. It doesn’t look like the players we brought in are good enough, and we didn’t address the problem of a creative midfielder.

[blackpoolhibs]

I dont really have a view on McKay, i dont know what he does from day to day. I do know a lot about Gray, and between them and the other coaches we brought in, it's ok to say we shouldnt expect it to be much better straight away, but i never expected it to get so much worse than we were last season so quickly either.

[GreenCastle]

Why isn’t it a great idea?

It only doesn’t work if you don’t sign the right loan players, same goes for all signings.

Dundee Utd just beat us with a loan keeper, loan centre half, loan centre mid and loan striker starting.

Fair but not many teams have that set up.

Of course it’s the right loans like Myziane - a rare positive signing in amongst some complete WyScout dross.

[matty_f]

There’s nae denying that the previous set up left things in a mess,

I just really expected better over the summer, and it’s frustrating. It doesn’t look like the players we brought in are good enough, and we didn’t address the problem of a creative midfielder.

I was as well, the summer window was a huge disappointment as things stand.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You’re right that they didn’t need to be concluded but being pragmatic, they were (certainly in the centre halves and goalie’s cases) priority positions so if you’re coming in brand new to the process your choice is either start again from scratch or work as best you can with what you’ve got.

I think the option they took was the lesser of two evils, tbh.


IMHO the real culprit for the summer window was Brian McDermott, he was an awful DoF but recruitment was supposed to be his big skill. Blaming the guys trying to fix the mess is harsh.

And the review stuff - totally agree. I’m actually more of the opinion now that the outcome of the review being that we needed a Scottish core to the set up was arrived at to justify hiring Malky rather than Malky arriving on the back of the recommendation from the review.

They were priority positions but we filled them before the transfer window even opened. Surely it would have made sense to have held off a bit and seen what else could become available rather than jumping straight in and just signing the guys that the previous failed group were working on? I’d get that argument that we took the lesser of two evils more if this was the end of August, or even the beginning of the league season and we were still needing to fill the positions as at that point there’s a much greater degree of urgency to matters, not so much when we commited to signing these guys before the window even opened.

If these guys were identified by the failing McDermott and his failing team then jumping in and signing them before the window even opened smacks of laziness at best and complete incompetence at worst. If Mackay was genuinely the best man for the job but he didn’t fancy he could identify two centre half’s and a goalie himself then I’d suggest we’ve not looked hard enough for the best man for the job… or the cynic in me would question whether we looked at all or just gave it to our absolute fanny of a chairman’s pal.

[matty_f]

I dont really have a view on McKay, i dont know what he does from day to day. I do know a lot about Gray, and between them and the other coaches we brought in, it's ok to say we shouldnt expect it to be much better straight away, but i never expected it to get so much worse than we were last season so quickly either.

I agree with this as well, we should be expecting better than we’re getting - bottom of the league is way below any reasonable expectations.

[He's here!]

Is only understandable until you think about what his job is though - because if you play out the alternative, say he’s failed already and we need to replace him, the next guy is going to also have no impact in a few months and we’ll be sacking them as well, starting again, and seeing the same results again.

That’s why, imho, when we know the scale of the job he has given the state we were in, there has to be some acknowledgement of what his job actually is, what he’s accountable for fixing and what that actually looks like in practice before demanding he’s emptied for the team being rubbish eight games into the season.


Again this isn’t really about Malky, I’ll reiterate that I’ve expressed my views and concerns repeatedly about his appointment, any appointment into that role has to have a medium to long term focus on it otherwise you never have a focusing to work from, everything is always being scrapped and started again but never concluded.

I'm not (and I'm not sure anyone else is) demanding he be emptied. Just pointing out that a vision of better times next summer isn't going to ease the fears of fans about the state of things right now.

[matty_f]

They were priority positions but we filled them before the transfer window even opened. Surely it would have made sense to have held off a bit and seen what else could become available rather than jumping straight in and just signing the guys that the previous failed group were working on? I’d get that argument that we took the lesser of two evils more if this was the end of August, or even the beginning of the league season and we were still needing to fill the positions as at that point there’s a much greater degree of urgency to matters, not so much when we commited to signing these guys before the window even opened.

If these guys were identified by the failing McDermott and his failing team then jumping in and signing them before the window even opened smacks of laziness at best and complete incompetence at worst. If Mackay was genuinely the best man for the job but he didn’t fancy he could identify two centre half’s and a goalie himself then I’d suggest we’ve not looked hard enough for the best man for the job… or the cynic in me would question whether we looked at all or just gave it to our absolute fanny of a chairman’s pal.

Mackay’s job isn’t to identify the players though - he’s not head of recruitment, he got stuck in to support the process but he should be one of the final steps in the process.

He shouldn’t be picking the targets at all, there’s a team that sits underneath him to do that - his role is to make sure the right people, processes and systems are there so it works well.

He’s basically had to come in and make what there worth as best he could but it’s not a Sporting Director’s job to identify players any more than it’s their job to take the players for a warm up or assess the youth players.

I spoke to someone at the club about the summer signings, because I thought it was ridiculous that we had a recruitment team in place and yet we signed players that had been here before, the right back’s twin brother, and a guy the goalie coach suggested. I challenged how that could sit with any semblance of an idea that there was a structure in place to sign players and the answer was essentially that the desired system wasn’t in place in time to sign so it was a case of trying to work with what they had.

You’re suggesting starting again with getting players in but you need to consider that most transfers take time to complete, take Triantis as an example, we were after him from very early in the window and didn’t get it over the line until deadline day. O’Hora and Ekpiteta had been in the pipeline for ages - it’s not the case that Malky came in, said “who’ve we got as potentials” then picked up the phone and did the deals there and then.

[GreenCastle]

This next summer clear out line is just such poor chat.

We have a January window before then - we have a load of out of contract players and players will be walking away for free.

The January window is massively important right now as we have seen in a short space of time what we have isn’t good enough. Well it’s currently 12th best in Scotland !! Falkirk are flying so wouldn’t fancy playing them right now either !!

I’ve listed the number of players we still have next summer on other threads and the worrying thing is several are way off the level. Major changes are needed and that may mean a few players being moved on like Newell even if they are under contract - we should be actively looking to sell them.

[matty_f]

I'm not (and I'm not sure anyone else is) demanding he be emptied. Just pointing out that a vision of better times next summer isn't going to ease the fears of fans about the state of things right now.

There are plenty folk suggesting he’s emptied.

As for easing fears right now, there’s not much that Malky can do about that other than be honest about where we are and keep working on the things that need to be improved.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Mackay’s job isn’t to identify the players though - he’s not head of recruitment, he got stuck in to support the process but he should be one of the final steps in the process.

He shouldn’t be picking the targets at all, there’s a team that sits underneath him to do that - his role is to make sure the right people, processes and systems are there so it works well.

He’s basically had to come in and make what there worth as best he could but it’s not a Sporting Director’s job to identify players any more than it’s their job to take the players for a warm up or assess the youth players.

I spoke to someone at the club about the summer signings, because I thought it was ridiculous that we had a recruitment team in place and yet we signed players that had been here before, the right back’s twin brother, and a guy the goalie coach suggested. I challenged how that could sit with any semblance of an idea that there was a structure in place to sign players and the answer was essentially that the desired system wasn’t in place in time to sign so it was a case of trying to work with what they had.

You’re suggesting starting again with getting players in but you need to consider that most transfers take time to complete, take Triantis as an example, we were after him from very early in the window and didn’t get it over the line until deadline day. O’Hora and Ekpiteta had been in the pipeline for ages - it’s not the case that Malky came in, said “who’ve we got as potentials” then picked up the phone and did the deals there and then.

Interesting. I presumed he had some form of involvement in identifying players. If he doesn’t, has the recruitment team been replaced? If we done a root and branch review you’d have to presume they have been. As the roots, they’ve failed miserably so a review can surely have only come to one conclusion on them.

If not Mackay, who would you say is ultimately responsible for recruitment/player identification nowadays at Hibs?

Some transfers take time to complete. Not all them. How often do we here players in their interviews turn round and go ‘yeah it all happened really quickly, suddenly I was in the car up the A1, I’ve still not even told my wife’ etc. We should have comfortably been able to identify players between McDermott leaving and the 2 months or so that followed before a competitive ball was kicked that weren’t identified by his failing system.

I’m sorry but nothing will convince me that signing guys identified by the previous recruitment team, that we had already acknowledged wasn’t working, was the best course of action. Especially when those signings were made prior to the window even opening.

[blackpoolhibs]

Who are the people in the recruitment team?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Who are the people in the recruitment team?

Aye - names and addresses.

[blackpoolhibs]

Aye - names and addresses.

What?:confused:

I just dont know who is responsible for bringing in players?:rolleyes:

[The Modfather]

You’re right that they didn’t need to be concluded but being pragmatic, they were (certainly in the centre halves and goalie’s cases) priority positions so if you’re coming in brand new to the process your choice is either start again from scratch or work as best you can with what you’ve got.

I think the option they took was the lesser of two evils, tbh.


IMHO the real culprit for the summer window was Brian McDermott, he was an awful DoF but recruitment was supposed to be his big skill. Blaming the guys trying to fix the mess is harsh.

And the review stuff - totally agree. I’m actually more of the opinion now that the outcome of the review being that we needed a Scottish core to the set up was arrived at to justify hiring Malky rather than Malky arriving on the back of the recommendation from the review.

Was there not chat that Mackay signed players that McDermott had identified but recommended not to sign? In the interest of balance, a player not suitable for Montgomery, as an example, doesn’t mean they are automatically not suitable for an industrious David Gray side.

[Danderhall Hibs]

What?:confused:

I just dont know who is responsible for bringing in players?:rolleyes:

The recruitment team identify, the manager picks from the list, then contracts are negotiated.

It’s all been covered various times.

Naming individuals will make no difference to the discussion.

[blackpoolhibs]

The recruitment team identify, the manager picks from the list, then contracts are negotiated.

It’s all been covered various times.

Who are?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Who are?

Check the staff list. Not sure how it makes a difference unless we’re going to add these individuals to the list of who needs to get the blame. Although we can just add it as a collective for the banner at the protest.

[blackpoolhibs]

Check the staff list. Not sure how it makes a difference unless we’re going to add these individuals to the list of who needs to get the blame. Although we can just add it as a collective for the banner at the protest.

Just checked, doesnt mention recruitment staff.