General election 2019

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=9aV0jboeR3w&feature=emb_t itle




I hope this guy just got a bit mixed up with what he was saying...

FFS. :bitchy:

[stokesmessiah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=9aV0jboeR3w&feature=emb_t itle




I hope this guy just got a bit mixed up with what he was saying...

Wtf !!!

[StevieC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Y02-03ZFU

John Harris (Guardian) video about the election, shot in Dunbar and Edinburgh, with loads of Hibs content towards the end.

P.S. Well done everyone involved in the Hibernian Foodbank :thumbsup:

What a great watch.

If only politicians could understand what real life is all about.

[G B Young]

I'm probably on my own here, but I found the journalist's insistence that Johnson look at the photo more unsettling than Johnson's refusal to do so. I understand why the journalist chose that tactic, but I personally found it inappropriate.

You're not alone. I actually think Johnson did the right thing in trying to ignore such a blatant attempt to exploit a sick child for the sake of a story. The boy's mother had already said she regretted allowing the Mirror to print the picture as she realised her son would be used as a political football.

I despise the way the media and politicians (and I include all sides here) will jump on any opportunity for one-upmanship of this sort.

[Ozyhibby]

You're not alone. I actually think Johnson did the right thing in trying to ignore such a blatant attempt to exploit a sick child for the sake of a story. The boy's mother had already said she regretted allowing the Mirror to print the picture as she realised her son would be used as a political football.

I despise the way the media and politicians (and I include all sides here) will jump on any opportunity for one-upmanship of this sort.

Well I for one am shocked you think Johnson did the right thing.
What’s important here is not that the story was exploited, it’s that a toddler was made to sleep on the floor of a hospital because there were no beds. We are being asked to vote on Thursday and people need to know how badly our services have been cut.


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[lapsedhibee]

You're not alone. I actually think Johnson did the right thing in trying to ignore such a blatant attempt to exploit a sick child for the sake of a story. The boy's mother had already said she regretted allowing the Mirror to print the picture as she realised her son would be used as a political football.


And did he do the right thing in putting the journalist's phone in his pocket?

And then when he took it out of his pocket, did he then do the wrong thing by acknowledging the photo (since you've said he did the right thing ignoring it)?

[Ozyhibby]

Big YouGov mrp poll due out in 15 mins. Labour need the gap to have closed massively to give them hope tonight.
SNP support in Scotland will be interesting as well.
This is the only poll that correctly predicted last election.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Big YouGov mrp poll due out in 15 mins. Labour need the gap to have closed massively to give them hope tonight.
SNP support in Scotland will be interesting as well.
This is the only poll that correctly predicted last election.


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Early rumours suggest 30ish Tory majority.

[weecounty hibby]

Early rumours suggest 30ish Tory majority.

God help us! If there is a god of course

[JeMeSouviens]

God help us! If there is a god of course

If there is he’s a ****.

[weecounty hibby]

If there is he’s a ****.

And he has a seriously warped sense of humour

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/168ac3884896fd017519fdfca3e7ddbc.jpg


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[Moulin Yarns]

A Christmas message


🕯 We have a strange story to tell...

A Christmas Carol: A Scotland Yet To Come, starring @Alancumming. https://t.co/sMbNcdpwDW

[JeMeSouviens]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/168ac3884896fd017519fdfca3e7ddbc.jpg


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Fieldwork started Dec 4 and figures are a Tory lead of +9, round about average of recent polls. We need a last minute tightening but all hope is not lost, what’s left is ****** anaemic mind.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/490986fea649d59634f71c6e73922f08.jpg
Latest poll only shows Labour losing two in Scotland. That’s quite a recovery and makes me worry they are overstating Labour support nationwide.


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[JeMeSouviens]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/490986fea649d59634f71c6e73922f08.jpg
Latest poll only shows Labour losing two in Scotland. That’s quite a recovery and makes me worry they are overstating Labour support nationwide.


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The way MRP works is by identifying group movements of similar people in the sample and then putting those votes where those people are more prevalent. Could be that type of people moving Lab in rUK stick with SNP here? Better to take 5 seats off the Tories than Labour anyway, so that’s something to cling to.

[JeMeSouviens]

Tories projected to gain Lanark & Hamilton E. ****.

An Orange spasm?

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Maybe the online 'staunch' campaign is working in West Central Scotland after all.

[CloudSquall]

Tories projected to gain Lanark & Hamilton E. ****.

An Orange spasm?

This is the seat where the Tory candidate said it's a "traditional loyalist / royalist / unionist / Rangers supporting area"

The SNP put up Angela Crawley who seems a bit humpty so I wouldn't be surprised if the Follow Follow crew see the Tories over the line.

[CloudSquall]

Iain Duncan Smith's only 2 points ahead of Labour in the YouGov poll, he could be providng this year's Portillo moment.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Iain Duncan Smith's only 2 points ahead of Labour in the YouGov poll, he could be providng this year's Portillo moment.

Please let it be...

[JeMeSouviens]

Iain Duncan Smith's only 2 points ahead of Labour in the YouGov poll, he could be providng this year's Portillo moment.

Hoping for Raab but IDS nice as well.

[G B Young]

The depressing thing is that Labour are unable capitalise on it, it should be the equivalent of Gordon Brown's "bigoted woman" moment, but they are supine as usual.

Might be partly due to the fact that Corbyn hasn't even visited a hospital, preferring to waive a policy document from a lectern instead.

Plus the fact that shadow health secretary has managed to halt any distasteful momentum Labour would have hoped to achieve from the story by grabbing his own headlines thanks to his anti-Corbyn musings:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50726592

Corbyn's response, that "it was all about reverse psychology banter - as in football" was as incomprehensible as it was unconvincing

[GlesgaeHibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/490986fea649d59634f71c6e73922f08.jpg
Latest poll only shows Labour losing two in Scotland. That’s quite a recovery and makes me worry they are overstating Labour support nationwide.


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Lots of close seats in Scotland. I'm voting in East Lothian which may go SNP (Kenny MacAskill standing).

Quite a few showing as a 'tossup' between SNP and Tories (Moray, Aberdeen South...). Small swings could deprive Bojo the majority.

[G B Young]

And did he do the right thing in putting the journalist's phone in his pocket?

And then when he took it out of his pocket, did he then do the wrong thing by acknowledging the photo (since you've said he did the right thing ignoring it)?

No, I don't think he handled it well in that respect and it all ended up looking a bit weird. He should have said something along the lines of 'I'm well acquainted with the picture and would prefer to respect the child in question and discuss how we plan to bolster the NHS so I don't need you shoving your phone in my face for the sake of a story." But then everyone, even a heavily briefed PM, can slip up in the heat of an election campaign.

[CloudSquall]

Lots of close seats in Scotland. I'm voting in East Lothian which may go SNP (Kenny MacAskill standing).

Quite a few showing as a 'tossup' between SNP and Tories (Moray, Aberdeen South...). Small swings could deprive Bojo the majority.

The only thing worse than a Tory majority is a Tory majority that got over the line by the election of "No Surrender" types in Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

No, I don't think he handled it well in that respect and it all ended up looking a bit weird. He should have said something along the lines of 'I'm well acquainted with the picture and would prefer to respect the child in question and discuss how we plan to bolster the NHS so I don't need you shoving your phone in my face for the sake of a story." But then everyone, even a heavily briefed PM, can slip up in the heat of an election campaign.

Tricky because he doesn’t have a plan to bolster the nhs.


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[G B Young]

Well I for one am shocked you think Johnson did the right thing.
What’s important here is not that the story was exploited, it’s that a toddler was made to sleep on the floor of a hospital because there were no beds. We are being asked to vote on Thursday and people need to know how badly our services have been cut.


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I would agree with you there if that's what the Mirror were really trying to do. Instead they followed up by touting around for more parents they could pay for pictures of their children not being treated well in hospital. Political point scoring is all this is about. The mock concern for the child from opposition parties is distasteful.

[G B Young]

Tricky because he doesn’t have a plan to bolster the nhs.


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£20.5 billion investment over the next three years last I read. That's significant after years of cuts. Less than Labour are propsing, granted, but their additional £5 billion would come from hefty tax increases.

[ballengeich]

£20.5 billion investment over the next three years last I read. That's significant after years of cuts. Less than Labour are propsing, granted, but their additional £5 billion would come from hefty tax increases.

Promising an amount of money is only a part solution. What matters is a plan for how it's spent. Shoving in more money won't necessarily improve the service.

You could immediately increase all NHS salaries. That would increase spending but wouldn't in itself improve the service because (short-term) you'd still have the same people providing services. For example, when the Blair government put more money into GP pay some of it went into increased pension contributions allowing earlier retirement rather than increasing the numbers in the work force.

I want to see more spending on health and social care, bu it has to be carefully directed. Raw numbers aren't enough.

[Ozyhibby]

Promising an amount of money is only a part solution. What matters is a plan for how it's spent. Shoving in more money won't necessarily improve the service.

You could immediately increase all NHS salaries. That would increase spending but wouldn't in itself improve the service because (short-term) you'd still have the same people providing services. For example, when the Blair government put more money into GP pay some of it went into increased pension contributions allowing earlier retirement rather than increasing the numbers in the work force.

I want to see more spending on health and social care, bu it has to be carefully directed. Raw numbers aren't enough.

Exactly. Johnson has no plan at all for anything which means if he gets a majority he has a free hand to do what he likes.


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[ballengeich]

Exactly. Johnson has no plan at all for anything which means if he gets a majority he has a free hand to do what he likes.


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The only thing Johnson will care about is staying in power. Paradoxically that could be his redeeming feature. If a hard right agenda looks likely to lead to his ejection he'll go for something more sensible.

[The Harp Awakes]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/490986fea649d59634f71c6e73922f08.jpg
Latest poll only shows Labour losing two in Scotland. That’s quite a recovery and makes me worry they are overstating Labour support nationwide.


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One of Labour's holds is East Lothian which seems unlikely. Not what I'm hearing locally and the last time I looked, the SNP were 8/13 to win the seat.

Having said that, FB has been getting pasted over the last few days with posts from the pro-union alliance, advising unionists in East Lothian to vote Labour to keep out the SNP. No doubt they're trying to rouse the sizeable Billy boys contingent in the Pans, Macmerry etc.

[Future17]

He shouldn't have needed asking twice to look at the photo. Once he refused, of course the journalist was going to run with it. Who would refuse to look at the image of a child on a hospital floor? It's weird behaviour.

I would imagine there's a lot of people who'd prefer not to look at a photo of a sick child lying on the floor; I'm one of them.

The journalist didn't need to show Johnson the photo to ask him the question and I think it was inappropriate to do so. What would you have said if he tried to show him a photo of a rape victim before asking a question about his plans for tackling crime?

[Bristolhibby]

I would imagine there's a lot of people who'd prefer not to look at a photo of a sick child lying on the floor; I'm one of them.

The journalist didn't need to show Johnson the photo to ask him the question and I think it was inappropriate to do so. What would you have said if he tried to show him a photo of a rape victim before asking a question about his plans for tackling crime?

Totally different. Johnson needs to be called out. Show some empathy FFS!

J

[Future17]

Totally different. Johnson needs to be called out. Show some empathy FFS!

J

In what way is it different?

[Hibernia&Alba]

I would imagine there's a lot of people who'd prefer not to look at a photo of a sick child lying on the floor; I'm one of them.

The journalist didn't need to show Johnson the photo to ask him the question and I think it was inappropriate to do so. What would you have said if he tried to show him a photo of a rape victim before asking a question about his plans for tackling crime?

You aren't the prime minister with responsibility for the NHS. He should have faced the reality his government has created when asked, as I, and I think any compassionate person would. He's an oddball, devoid of natural empathy for suffering.

[Future17]

You aren't the prime minister with responsibility for the NHS. He should have faced the reality his government has created when asked, as I, and I think any compassionate person would. He's an oddball, devoid of natural empathy for suffering.

I don't want Johnson as Prime Minister, but I also don't want the Prime Minister, whoever it may be, to be elected on the basis of their reaction to a photo, rather than the policy they're putting forward as a solution to the difficulties portrayed.

You didn't answer my question?

[Hibernia&Alba]

I don't want Johnson as Prime Minister, but I also don't want the Prime Minister, whoever it may be, to be elected on the basis of their reaction to a photo, rather than the policy they're putting forward as a solution to the difficulties portrayed.

You didn't answer my question?

No offence, but I think your question was a nonsense. I believe he had a moral duty to address the issue of that poor laddie's suffering, but I also believe that he, as a devious degenerate slug, was making instant political calculations in his ahead about what would look worse on television. He wasn't really interested in that little boy's situation.

[Since90+2]

No offence, but I think your question was a nonsense. I believe he had a moral duty to address the issue of that poor laddie's suffering, but I also believe that he, as a devious degenerate slug, was making instant political calculations in his ahead about what would look worse on television. He wasn't really interested in that little boy's situation.

Correct.

[marinello59]

The only thing worse than a Tory majority is a Tory majority that got over the line by the election of "No Surrender" types in Scotland.

I hope you aren’t seriously suggesting that the North East of Scotland Tory vote is dominated by ‘No Surrender’ types. They may be misguided but they’re not bigots.

[marinello59]

One of Labour's holds is East Lothian which seems unlikely. Not what I'm hearing locally and the last time I looked, the SNP were 8/13 to win the seat.

Having said that, FB has been getting pasted over the last few days with posts from the pro-union alliance, advising unionists in East Lothian to vote Labour to keep out the SNP. No doubt they're trying to rouse the sizeable Billy boys contingent in the Pans, Macmerry etc.

I received the first leaflet from the labour candidate in our constituency yesterday. I thought they might have made a bit of a push when the Tory candidate was dumped early on but they have been invisible. It would have been long shot for them to actually beat the SNP but they haven’t even tried. I suspect they just don’t have enough activists available or willing to put the work in.

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkyBooth97/status/1204522396608319490

Thread in Twitter showing just how tight a lot of the Scottish seats are, also where there are comfy leads.

Looks like many of the seats will be decided by tactical voting or how much of the SNP vote from 2015 comes out.

[CloudSquall]

I hope you aren’t seriously suggesting that the North East of Scotland Tory vote is dominated by ‘No Surrender’ types. They may be misguided but they’re not bigots.

Edit: It was the MPs specifically, not the voters, and more a reference to their Rangers supporting ways rather than anything bigoted.

[Cataplana]

One of Labour's holds is East Lothian which seems unlikely. Not what I'm hearing locally and the last time I looked, the SNP were 8/13 to win the seat.

Having said that, FB has been getting pasted over the last few days with posts from the pro-union alliance, advising unionists in East Lothian to vote Labour to keep out the SNP. No doubt they're trying to rouse the sizeable Billy boys contingent in the Pans, Macmerry etc.

How sizeable would that be, and where is etc? Never heard such nonsense.

[wpj]

Gove on BBC1 brekkie, what an absolute nob

[The Harp Awakes]

How sizeable would that be, and where is etc? Never heard such nonsense.

Nonsense? I've lived most of my life here and believe me there's a sizeable amount of Rangers/Unionist minded folk here. As I say, particularly around the Pans, Macmerry, Tranent etc. Add in the very affluent areas around the coast; Aberlady, Gullane, etc and it is clearly not fertile ground for nationalists. I think the No vote in East Lothian in 2014 was >60%, whereas Musselburgh voted Yes.

Still, the bookies point to an SNP victory and I hope they're right.

[Future17]

No offence, but I think your question was a nonsense. I believe he had a moral duty to address the issue of that poor laddie's suffering, but I also believe that he, as a devious degenerate slug, was making instant political calculations in his ahead about what would look worse on television. He wasn't really interested in that little boy's situation.

You may be right about Johnson , but that doesn’t make it right for the journalist to have used a photo of a young child in such a way.

That you have said my question was “a nonsense” is an answer in itself; showing a photo of a rape victim would have been completely inappropriate in such circumstances. I don’t see why using a photo of a seriously ill young child is any different.

Ultimately, I know how each person feels about Johnson’s reaction is subjective; however, I think the full context of this story is a reflection of how divisive politics in this country now is. More and more people seem to have become obdurate and, perhaps more worryingly, willing to acquiesce to things which would have seemed abhorrent to them previously, if they feel their chances of victory may be enhanced by them.

[G B Young]

No offence, but I think your question was a nonsense. I believe he had a moral duty to address the issue of that poor laddie's suffering, but I also believe that he, as a devious degenerate slug, was making instant political calculations in his ahead about what would look worse on television. He wasn't really interested in that little boy's situation.

I see there's now debate about the authenticity of the pic amid suggestions it was staged. Another inevitable consequence in this era of social media/fake news prevalence of exploiting such issues for the sake of a story/political gain.

[Smartie]

I see there's now debate about the authenticity of the pic amid suggestions it was staged. Another inevitable consequence in this era of social media/fake news prevalence of exploiting such issues for the sake of a story/political gain.

There is no debate about the authenticity of the pic any more.

The situation at the hospital was verified by the local paper, the hospital very quickly admitted to the situation and apologised.

There has since been a frankly disgraceful episode, where those with Tory sympathies have sought to discredit everyone associated with the story and distance themselves from it in every way. THAT has been what has been appalling.

I’ve worked in well-run and adequately funded hospital departments that have at certain peak times found themselves stretched beyond the limits. I’m neither shocked nor appalled by the initial image. The wee boy was receiving treatment and is fine.

This has become about something very different - where we get our news and who we can trust to provide us with information.

[Ozyhibby]

I see there's now debate about the authenticity of the pic amid suggestions it was staged. Another inevitable consequence in this era of social media/fake news prevalence of exploiting such issues for the sake of a story/political gain.

There is no debate whatsoever about the authenticity of the pic yet you are happy to post on here that there is. That’s where politics is going wrong. In order to creat a debate about the authenticity of the picture, full blown lies have to be told and then repeated by people such as yourself.


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[Andy Bee]

I see there's now debate about the authenticity of the pic amid suggestions it was staged. Another inevitable consequence in this era of social media/fake news prevalence of exploiting such issues for the sake of a story/political gain.

There's no debate about the authenticity, it's proven to be genuine and that's backed up by the hospital issuing a public apology. The staged pic allegation is a complete fabrication traced backed to someone who claims her Facebook account was hacked.

Johnson is getting a complete battering on Good Morning Britain from Piers Morgan, they've sent an outside broadcast along to some photo shoot BJ is doing showing him delivering milk. The event was invite only for the press and GMB were not invited but decided to attend anyway. When trying to interview Johnson the interviewer was man handled out the way and told to "f*** off" by what they thought was security but turned out to be his press secretary, all on live tv. Johnson was then backed into a corner and chose to hide in a freezer rather than do the interview, it'd be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't for the fact this bloke is looking like he'll be Prime Minister.

[Hiber-nation]

Nonsense? I've lived most of my life here and believe me there's a sizeable amount of Rangers/Unionist minded folk here. As I say, particularly around the Pans, Macmerry, Tranent etc.

Absolutely. These places are hoaching with them.

[Dalianwanda]

In what way is it different?

The child was lying where he was because of a failure by government. A rape victim is in the situation they are in because of a sick rapist.

No similarity at all.

[Cataplana]

Nonsense? I've lived most of my life here and believe me there's a sizeable amount of Rangers/Unionist minded folk here. As I say, particularly around the Pans, Macmerry, Tranent etc. Add in the very affluent areas around the coast; Aberlady, Gullane, etc and it is clearly not fertile ground for nationalists. I think the No vote in East Lothian in 2014 was >60%, whereas Musselburgh voted Yes.

Still, the bookies point to an SNP victory and I hope they're right.

I guess you see what you want to see. Such people are more visible in smaller towns, it doesn't mean they have any real significance.

A sizable amount has no significance, you might as well say "lots". If there were as many as you think then the parties would be much more visible chasing the vote.

[Future17]

The child was lying where he was because of a failure by government. A rape victim is in the situation they are in because of a sick rapist.

No similarity at all.

What if the rapist had previously been released from prison early due to a government policy – would that make it acceptable to use a photo of his victim when asking a politician questions about such a policy?

The point is, any journalist could use a photo as some sort of prop or gimmick when asking a question about a party policy; they don’t do so as it’s not necessary if your intention is simply to get an answer to the question.

Using the photo was crass, exploitative and an invasion of that child’s right to privacy.

[Cataplana]

I see there's now debate about the authenticity of the pic amid suggestions it was staged. Another inevitable consequence in this era of social media/fake news prevalence of exploiting such issues for the sake of a story/political gain.

Yeah the debate comes from fake news. The hospital has confirmed it is true.

You are part of the debate spreading the fake news.

It is definitely fake news.

[Ozyhibby]

Yeah the debate comes from fake news. The hospital has confirmed it is true.

You are part of the debate spreading the fake news.

It is definitely fake news.

Not only that, if your still spreading it now long after it’s been proven to be a lie, then you are deliberately spreading fake news.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Not only that, if your still spreading it now long after it’s been proven to be a lie, then you are deliberately spreading fake news.


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Ditto if you're trying to peddle the "both sides as bad as the other" narrative. All parties spin, obfuscate, play fast and loose with figures. The Tories under Cummings have taken it up to deliberate lies, manufactured stunts and calculated misinformation.

[SHODAN]

The best part is this fake news onslaught is based on three things:
1. Matt Hancock immediately try to divert attention by saying a "Labour activist" punched him, which was later proven to be entirely untrue (but not before it was reported as fact by the media, including the BBC)
2. A nurse (who has Matt Hancock as a friend on Facebook) posting a complete lie about the picture being fabricated (which was later verified as untrue by the hospital) and then lying again about her account being hacked
3. Hundreds of posts on Twitter suddenly appearing about the picture being fabricated despite this earlier assertion from the hospital that the picture is not a fake.

The entire Conservative campaign is built on lies, misinformation and deception. The health secretary has orchestrated an entire frenzy of lies from thin air.

The thing is, when the people aged up to 35 become the majority voting population (i.e. the ones who have grown up with social media and the recession, and so far wouldn't even contemplate voting Tory) the Conservatives are absoutely ****ed. I have no idea how they're going to convince us that we'd be better off under them when they have systematically wrecked our future and completely ignored all of our concerns and needs.

[Dalianwanda]

What if the rapist had previously been released from prison early due to a government policy – would that make it acceptable to use a photo of his victim when asking a politician questions about such a policy?

The point is, any journalist could use a photo as some sort of prop or gimmick when asking a question about a party policy; they don’t do so as it’s not necessary if your intention is simply to get an answer to the question.

Using the photo was crass, exploitative and an invasion of that child’s right to privacy.

Now your just adding stuff on to suit your point. I could say what if they child & his family were totally cool in using the photo to expose the current shortcomings in the NHS due to underfunding from the government, but I wont.

[lapsedhibee]

The best part is this fake news onslaught is based on three things:
1. Matt Hancock immediately try to divert attention by saying a "Labour activist" punched him, which was later proven to be entirely untrue (but not before it was reported as fact by the media, including the BBC)
2. A nurse (who has Matt Hancock as a friend on Facebook) posting a complete lie about the picture being fabricated (which was later verified as untrue by the hospital) and then lying again about her account being hacked
3. Hundreds of posts on Twitter suddenly appearing about the picture being fabricated despite this earlier assertion from the hospital that the picture is not a fake.

The entire Conservative campaign is built on lies, misinformation and deception. The health secretary has orchestrated an entire frenzy of lies from thin air.

The thing is, when the people aged up to 35 become the majority voting population (i.e. the ones who have grown up with social media and the recession, and so far wouldn't even contemplate voting Tory) the Conservatives are absoutely ****ed. I have no idea how they're going to convince us that we'd be better off under them when they have systematically wrecked our future and completely ignored all of our concerns and needs.

Was the nurse's son who had the digital media connection with Hancock.

Edit: And the woman has apparently denied being a nurse!

[lapsedhibee]

What if the rapist had previously been released from prison early due to a government policy – would that make it acceptable to use a photo of his victim when asking a politician questions about such a policy?

The point is, any journalist could use a photo as some sort of prop or gimmick when asking a question about a party policy; they don’t do so as it’s not necessary if your intention is simply to get an answer to the question.

Using the photo was crass, exploitative and an invasion of that child’s right to privacy.

Shirley it's obvious to you that Johnson goes out of his way to not answer normal, polite, questions put to him in plain English? Ignores and waffles, repeats Get Brexit Done ad nauseam, talks over questioner, etc etc. There wouldn't be any need for an interviewer to try to force the issue pictorially (which wasn't at all 'in his face' btw) if Johnson didn't behave like such a complete ****?

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/markdistef/status/1204710170959523840


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[grunt]

This BBC report (I know) is based on analysis by a "non-partisan body made up of advertising professionals". It's a fact checking review of election advertising.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-50726500

You have to read three quarters of the way down the page to discover what I would have thought was the headline news:
[I]

for the Conservatives, it said that 88% (5,952) of the party's most widely promoted ads either featured claims which had been flagged by independent fact-checking organisations (including BBC Reality Check) as not correct or not entirely correct.

It goes on to say


for Labour, it said that it could not find any misleading claims in ads run over the period

So much for the often used comments, "they're both as bad as each other" and "all politicians lie".

It raises the question, if Tory policies are so good for us, why do they need to lie so much about them?

[lapsedhibee]

You have to read three quarters of the way down the page to discover what I would have thought was the headline news:

Was prominent on Newsnight last night. Not all of the BBC is giving the Tories an easy ride - just the parts that its political editor touches.

[grunt]

Jeremy Vine on Twitter:


Boris Johnson has refused to follow the other six leaders who have taken part in the leader interviews @BBCRadio2. His staff constantly told my producers — until this morning — that he was "very likely" to come on. Today we were told he couldn't, and no reason was given.

So he's avoided the BBC Radio 2 leader interviews and he's refused the Andrew Neil party leader interview.
What is he hiding?

[matty_f]

Jeremy Vine on Twitter:



So he's avoided the BBC Radio 2 leader interviews and he's refused the Andrew Neil party leader interview.
What is he hiding?

He's trying to hide his own incompetence. He'd rather be known as a coward than an idiot.

[lapsedhibee]

So he's avoided the BBC Radio 2 leader interviews and he's refused the Andrew Neil party leader interview. [/LEFT]
What is he hiding?

Worried that ace griller Vine will ask him to confirm that the reason he's delaying publication of the Russian interference report is that he's named in it as a possible blackmail risk? :dunno:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Les Huckfield, a former labour minister in callaghan's government thinks independence is now the way to go

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18092725.ex-labour-minister-les-huckfield-says-indy-must-priority/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR2TySmxjKlfv7tc2z51Q0gdAnlzm9dEWmQocYQGI iW1A6gLoyEvqa8d9vY


along with former labour MEP Hugh Kerr urging scots to vote SNP tomorrow

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/former-labour-mep-urges-scots-to-vote-snp-in-general-election-1-5060404?fbclid=IwAR2POInetKaMXtxHb5jxLZllA2JA7B8E7-U8SUe4bzGHrIrinOOz8c1EWPk


:agree:

[The Harp Awakes]

I guess you see what you want to see. Such people are more visible in smaller towns, it doesn't mean they have any real significance.

A sizable amount has no significance, you might as well say "lots". If there were as many as you think then the parties would be much more visible chasing the vote.

Er no, I certainly don't want to see them. Especially when they're waking me up walking across the top of my street on a mid-Summer Saturday morning at the crack of dawn spreading their bigotry.

I hope you're right by the way.

[G B Young]

Not only that, if your still spreading it now long after it’s been proven to be a lie, then you are deliberately spreading fake news.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I only noticed the claims last night. Granted, that qualifies as 'long after' in social media terms, so as somebody whose postings on here are as close to social media as I get I guess I'm behind the curve. My point, though was not to 'spread fake news' (and if it was I'd chose a wider forum than one which only a dozen or so users view regularly) but to illustrate how such stories can so quickly be exploited for a variety of agendas. It's only my opinion, but I just feel the use of a small child to gain political mileage is distasteful.

[Ozyhibby]

I only noticed the claims last night. Granted, that qualifies as 'long after' in social media terms, so as somebody whose postings on here are as close to social media as I get I guess I'm behind the curve. My point, though was not to 'spread fake news' (and if it was I'd chose a wider forum than one which only a dozen or so users view regularly) but to illustrate how such stories can so quickly be exploited for a variety of agendas. It's only my opinion, but I just feel the use of a small child to gain political mileage is distasteful.

Surely not as distasteful as telling lies about the small child’s family and spreading those lies far and wide as Tory candidates spent yesterday doing and you did here this morning?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[G B Young]

Ditto if you're trying to peddle the "both sides as bad as the other" narrative. All parties spin, obfuscate, play fast and loose with figures. The Tories under Cummings have taken it up to deliberate lies, manufactured stunts and calculated misinformation.

It's not Johnson who has tried to make political gain out of this incident.

As for manufactured stunts, Corbyn's video of himself sitting between the carriages on a 'ram packed' train to bolster his case for nationalisation - before being caught on the train cameras returning to his seat - springs to mind.

[Smartie]

I only noticed the claims last night. Granted, that qualifies as 'long after' in social media terms, so as somebody whose postings on here are as close to social media as I get I guess I'm behind the curve. My point, though was not to 'spread fake news' (and if it was I'd chose a wider forum than one which only a dozen or so users view regularly) but to illustrate how such stories can so quickly be exploited for a variety of agendas. It's only my opinion, but I just feel the use of a small child to gain political mileage is distasteful.

There’s a lot about the whole episode that is distasteful, that included.

I felt like the interviewer was wanting his 15 minutes of fame more than to make a sensible point.

The poor lad had a bad experience, the hospital were under pressure, they acknowledged the situation and admitted it.

I’m all for taking parties to task over their record in government but this was allowed to balloon into a really undignified spectacle.

[grunt]

It's only my opinion, but I just feel the use of a small child to gain political mileage is distasteful.This to me appears to be an epic example of myopia on your part. The sick child on the floor of A&E goes to the heart of the political discussion. The Tories have underfunded the NHS in a time of increasing demand, limited funds for development and expansion of much needed new hospitals, overseen a period of austerity which has seen NHS staff' pay fall in real terms, instituted a hostile environment and demonization via Brexit of EU nationals resulting in a widespread exodus of EU nationals from hospitals and the wider caring environment, which ended up with a sick child being asked to give up his bed for someone in a worse state, resulting in him lying on a bed of coats on the floor.

And you think that posting the photo is distasteful??


Surely not as distasteful as telling lies about the small child’s family and spreading those lies far and wide as Tory candidates spent yesterday doing and you did here this morning?

And this is the Government's reaction to the story. Not to address the issue but to LIE about the validity of the story.

This Tory party is disgusting.

[lapsedhibee]

I’m all for taking parties to task over their record in government but this was allowed to balloon into a really undignified spectacle.
Le mot juste.
If he'd looked at the picture and made any sort of comprehensible comment there would have been no undignified spectacle. Stealing the phone and getting his aides to spread lies about the picture, not so much.

[Bristolhibby]

In what way is it different?

In what way is a sick child different from a picture of a rape victim?

Is that a real question?

J

[G B Young]

There’s a lot about the whole episode that is distasteful, that included.

I felt like the interviewer was wanting his 15 minutes of fame more than to make a sensible point.

The poor lad had a bad experience, the hospital were under pressure, they acknowledged the situation and admitted it.

I’m all for taking parties to task over their record in government but this was allowed to balloon into a really undignified spectacle.

You've put that better than I did, thanks.

[G B Young]

Fomer Labour MPs still queuing up to put the boot into Corbyn:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2019-50739883?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5df0c07dfb9d240676c46cd1%26Fifteen%20f ormer%20Labour%20MPs%20urge%20voters%20not%20to%20 back%20Corbyn%262019-12-11T10%3A29%3A07.795Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:1fcb922d-58d6-49c3-ab52-bce3344b2c7e&pinned_post_asset_id=5df0c07dfb9d240676c46cd1&pinned_post_type=share

[Bristolhibby]

What if the rapist had previously been released from prison early due to a government policy – would that make it acceptable to use a photo of his victim when asking a politician questions about such a policy?

The point is, any journalist could use a photo as some sort of prop or gimmick when asking a question about a party policy; they don’t do so as it’s not necessary if your intention is simply to get an answer to the question.

Using the photo was crass, exploitative and an invasion of that child’s right to privacy.

The wee boys Mum published the photo on Twitter!

J

[JeMeSouviens]

It's not Johnson who has tried to make political gain out of this incident.

As for manufactured stunts, Corbyn's video of himself sitting between the carriages on a 'ram packed' train to bolster his case for nationalisation - before being caught on the train cameras returning to his seat - springs to mind.

The Tory lie machine is operating at a different level entirely.

Hancock visits Leeds hospital - both Laura Kuenssberg and Robert Peston were briefed that 100s of Labour activists arrived in taxis and a Tory adviser was puched.

Then this video emerged - https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1204091610843226112

Corbyn's train stunt pushes boundaries a bit, this tramples way across them. Cummings is a sociopath and Johnson is his willing stooge.

[Moulin Yarns]

Using the photo was crass, exploitative and an invasion of that child’s right to privacy.

Ask yourself, who took the photo? Who sent the story to the press? Now ask yourself who is invading the child's right to privacy.

Apologies in advance for the website if trying to read on a phone.

This is an open letter from the Editor of the Yorkshire Post about the story they broke about young Jack Williment, the sick child on the hospital floor.
'Do not believe a stranger on social media who disappears into the night'

https://t.co/p8HPxZuWL2

[Cataplana]

The Tory lie machine is operating at a different level entirely.

Hancock visits Leeds hospital - both Laura Kuenssberg and Robert Peston were briefed that 100s of Labour activists arrived in taxis and a Tory adviser was puched.

Then this video emerged - https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1204091610843226112

Corbyn's train stunt pushes boundaries a bit, this tramples way across them. Cummings is a sociopath and Johnson is his willing stooge.

Cummings will knife Boris as soon as is expedient. He is merely there to appeal to the knuckle draggers.

[lapsedhibee]

Cummings will knife Boris as soon as is expedient. He is merely there to appeal to the knuckle draggers.
Friday could be :cb the beginning of the end :cb for him, whether or not he gets a majority.

[grunt]

This is very good https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/12/11/the-last-days-of-hope (https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/12/11/the-last-days-of-hope)

[Moulin Yarns]

Tory Candidate
Cancer patients don’t really care about longer waiting times
You what! 😱
https://t.co/040rrFR8d7

[Moulin Yarns]

How the campaign has gone so far.



Boris Johnson #GeneralElection19

'People saw tragedy. He saw opportunity'
Dave Merritt on son Jack's murder

'You've taken phone'
After refused to look at pic sick child on hospital floor

'Why won't you stand up to me?'
@afneil

'Talk to us. He’s gone into a fridge!
-@GMB

[CloudSquall]

"Matt Hancock being totally normal around a woman" :greengrin

https://mobile.twitter.com/SoozUK/status/1204681154168795137

[grunt]

I'm not a fan of Labour but this is very powerful


https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1204737215173189633?s=20

[One Day Soon]

This is very good https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/12/11/the-last-days-of-hope (https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/12/11/the-last-days-of-hope)

Ian Dunt does produce excellent commentary and a bit of insight too.

Although it looks like a knife edge in many constituencies - or perhaps BECAUSE - it's a knife edge in so many - I've been picking up chatter that Labour could take 5 or 6 seats and the Tories estimating anywhere between 6 and 16 in Scotland!

SNP vote seems to be soft in some places, vulnerable to a hold your nose and vote Labour to stop the Tories line.

I suppose the fact that so many seats are too close to call speaks to the truth of some of this. I'd imagine Pete Wishart may be sweating a bit...

[One Day Soon]

"Matt Hancock being totally normal around a woman" :greengrin

https://mobile.twitter.com/SoozUK/status/1204681154168795137

What a weird guy. Still, when you are invertebrate it may be difficult to stand up at all.

[cabbageandribs1875]

any person in scotland voting tory needs to stop and think, this is what your vote supports :agree:

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/80015183_1362741687227952_2583565743580774400_o.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=NsZzvfe4_P8AQkPH3FOJeJCsdPu5aHGj9uf9I2BWeF xVqyYlsqjxhRZNQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=846f52e99448901bcd84bc5fef111fc5&oe=5E6B9BF2

[Future17]

Now your just adding stuff on to suit your point. I could say what if they child & his family were totally cool in using the photo to expose the current shortcomings in the NHS due to underfunding from the government, but I wont.

I'm not "adding stuff on", I'm clarifying my question. When I posted my question initially, I assumed it was obvious that the comparison being drawn was on the basis of a photo being used as a prop to ask a question about government policy, so I didn't feel it was necessary to explicitly explain that. Your reply proved my assumption was incorrect.

You didn't answer my question but, in the hope that you might, I'll try to answer your "what if" point. I think the child is too young to consent to his photo being used in that way. His family's decision would be their decision; I wouldn't want a photo of my child to be used in the way it was, but (a) I've never been in the position they were in, so am not going to judge their actions given the various emotions which were no doubt at play, and (b) they probably didn't fully appreciate how the story would play out and the potential impact of that on their child.

However, irrespective of that, the journalist in question still had a moral decision to make and I feel he made the wrong one. That's just my opinion, but I am genuinely surprised at how willing some people seem to be ignore that in order to use the story for their own benefit.


Shirley it's obvious to you that Johnson goes out of his way to not answer normal, polite, questions put to him in plain English? Ignores and waffles, repeats Get Brexit Done ad nauseam, talks over questioner, etc etc. There wouldn't be any need for an interviewer to try to force the issue pictorially (which wasn't at all 'in his face' btw) if Johnson didn't behave like such a complete ****?

I don't disagree with that. I think I said earlier that I understand why the tactic was used by the journalist. It doesn't make it right though and we (collectively) shouldn't be dragged into a race to the bottom by Johnson and his actions (or inactions for that matter).


In what way is a sick child different from a picture of a rape victim?

Is that a real question?

J

Per my reply above which acknowledged that I perhaps wasn't explicit enough previously, I'll rephrase. In what way is a photo of one perceived victim of government policy (a sick, young child on a hospital floor) different from another perceived victim of government policy (as an example, a rape victim whose rapist was freed from prison early due to government policy)?


The wee boys Mum published the photo on Twitter!

J


Ask yourself, who took the photo? Who sent the story to the press? Now ask yourself who is invading the child's right to privacy.

As I've said above, the journalist in question still had a moral decision to make and I feel he made the wrong one.

[CloudSquall]

Ian Dunt does produce excellent commentary and a bit of insight too.

Although it looks like a knife edge in many constituencies - or perhaps BECAUSE - it's a knife edge in so many - I've been picking up chatter that Labour could take 5 or 6 seats and the Tories estimating anywhere between 6 and 16 in Scotland!

SNP vote seems to be soft in some places, vulnerable to a hold your nose and vote Labour to stop the Tories line.

I suppose the fact that so many seats are too close to call speaks to the truth of some of this. I'd imagine Pete Wishart may be sweating a bit...

I think it will all come down to the SNP turnout, if they get a tsunami of votes like they did in 2015 only the most efficient of tactical voting against them would have a chance, however if it's 2017 levels of support tactical voting could see them struggle to make any gains and they could be looking at a loss of seats.

[One Day Soon]

I think it will all come down to the SNP turnout, if they get a tsunami of votes like they did in 2015 only the most efficient of tactical voting against them would have a chance, however if it's 2017 levels of support tactical voting could see them struggle to make any gains and they could be looking at a loss of seats.

I suspect that a turnout depressed by Christmas, darkness and bad weather would work against the SNP and for everyone else given that SNP representation is already at or near high water mark. You're right, turnout will be key.

Bizarre to think that a relatively small number of voters will effectively set the political narrative for Scotland for the next couple of years whatever the outcome.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The best part is this fake news onslaught is based on three things:
1. Matt Hancock immediately try to divert attention by saying a "Labour activist" punched him, which was later proven to be entirely untrue (but not before it was reported as fact by the media, including the BBC)
2. A nurse (who has Matt Hancock as a friend on Facebook) posting a complete lie about the picture being fabricated (which was later verified as untrue by the hospital) and then lying again about her account being hacked
3. Hundreds of posts on Twitter suddenly appearing about the picture being fabricated despite this earlier assertion from the hospital that the picture is not a fake.

The entire Conservative campaign is built on lies, misinformation and deception. The health secretary has orchestrated an entire frenzy of lies from thin air.

The thing is, when the people aged up to 35 become the majority voting population (i.e. the ones who have grown up with social media and the recession, and so far wouldn't even contemplate voting Tory) the Conservatives are absoutely ****ed. I have no idea how they're going to convince us that we'd be better off under them when they have systematically wrecked our future and completely ignored all of our concerns and needs.

Very good post. This fake news phenomenon is very disturbing. The disgraceful attempt by someone (who was it anyway?) to suggest the photo was faked was immediately given traction on social media by some Tory voters, campaigners and sympathetic journalists. A total lie, which then makes the conversation one about media reliability more than the real issue of the state of the NHS. It's a worrying trend, as spin and media manipulation has the capability to undermine the democratic process.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The Tory lie machine is operating at a different level entirely.

Hancock visits Leeds hospital - both Laura Kuenssberg and Robert Peston were briefed that 100s of Labour activists arrived in taxis and a Tory adviser was puched.

Then this video emerged - https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1204091610843226112

Corbyn's train stunt pushes boundaries a bit, this tramples way across them. Cummings is a sociopath and Johnson is his willing stooge.

Why was a BBC journalist reporting this nonsense over social media as if fact? What about checking a story first as a journalist? I've said before camel mooth Kuenssberg is a blatant Tory cheerleader.

[Ozyhibby]

I suspect that a turnout depressed by Christmas, darkness and bad weather would work against the SNP and for everyone else given that SNP representation is already at or near high water mark. You're right, turnout will be key.

Bizarre to think that a relatively small number of voters will effectively set the political narrative for Scotland for the next couple of years whatever the outcome.

Turnout is a problem for the snp. It’s why they lost seats last time, as the other parties had pretty much stood still.
The YES campaigners conspiracy theories about postal voting do not help here. It discourages SNP voters from using it. The SNP should be encouraging their supporters to use postal voting as it’s the best way to make sure you actually vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[One Day Soon]

Turnout is a problem for the snp. It’s why they lost seats last time, as the other parties had pretty much stood still.
The YES campaigners conspiracy theories about postal voting do not help here. It discourages SNP voters from using it. The SNP should be encouraging their supporters to use postal voting as it’s the best way to make sure you actually vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I haven't heard this particular conspiracy theory. What swivel eyed perspective attaches to postal votes?

[Hibbyradge]

I only noticed the claims last night. Granted, that qualifies as 'long after' in social media terms, so as somebody whose postings on here are as close to social media as I get I guess I'm behind the curve. My point, though was not to 'spread fake news' (and if it was I'd chose a wider forum than one which only a dozen or so users view regularly) but to illustrate how such stories can so quickly be exploited for a variety of agendas. It's only my opinion, but I just feel the use of a small child to gain political mileage is distasteful.

Would you prefer that these shocking situations should be covered up?

What age do you think should someone be before their plight is publicised? Is there a highest age too?

The fact that our children are being treated so poorly by the NHS is the fault of the government. Of course it's a political issue.

[Ozyhibby]

I haven't heard this particular conspiracy theory. What swivel eyed perspective attaches to postal votes?

Just that Ruth Davidson said she had been given hope from postal votes opened early. All parties are present at such things but people were looking for things to blame for the loss.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

Just that Ruth Davidson said she had been given hope from postal votes opened early. All parties are present at such things but people were looking for things to blame for the loss.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I see big Ruth has said she will swim in Loch Ness naked if the SNP win over fifty seats. My God, that's an horrendous thought; the American sightseers looking for Nessie will be traumatised.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I see big Ruth has said she will swim in Loch Ness naked if the SNP win over fifty seats. My God, that's an horrendous thought; the American sightseers looking for Nessie will be traumatised.



the Myth would then become Reality

[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/MsTinaPoole/status/1204663278233935872

Good start to the day for Boris' team, just their press secretary barging into a reporter and telling him to F off live on Good Morning Britain :greengrin

It does say a lot for their levels of perceived entitlement that they think they can speak to people in that way.

[cabbageandribs1875]

from the Daily Record

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/78591694_167711584623757_6850819264887128064_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=kgcxBtMFGskAQko5PS9ERXJ69PjbOdCklDmA4kD5XW OVbhHw9rnHRPELg&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=a0f691627ed37409e96141012a02c234&oe=5EB2E727


i don't normally advocate tactical voting, but needs must on this occasion

[One Day Soon]

Just that Ruth Davidson said she had been given hope from postal votes opened early. All parties are present at such things but people were looking for things to blame for the loss.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, not something of the 'usepens' variety then?

[Hibernia&Alba]

What are the latest polls predicting? The last I saw was yesterday, which predicted a Tory majority of thirty.

[CloudSquall]

What are the latest polls predicting? The last I saw was yesterday, which predicted a Tory majority of thirty.

Yeah the take from the one yesterday is that we are within the margin of error between a Tory majority of around 30 and a hung parliament.


It could all be decided by a small number of votes across some key seats.

[Ozyhibby]

Yeah the take from the one yesterday is that we are within the margin of error between a Tory majority of around 30 and a hung parliament.


It could all be decided by a small number of votes across some key seats.

Or if the margin of error swings the other way and we get a Tory majority of about 60.
It’s going to take a massive tactical voting effort like we have never seen before to stop a Johnson majority. Usually tactical voting is much talked about but doesn’t happen. With brexit it may just have the positive reason for it to happen but I have my doubts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

Or if the margin of error swings the other way and we get a Tory majority of about 60.
It’s going to take a massive tactical voting effort like we have never seen before to stop a Johnson majority. Usually tactical voting is much talked about but doesn’t happen. With brexit it may just have the positive reason for it to happen but I have my doubts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aye, tactical voting could play a big role tomorrow, which the polls may not reflect. The Brexit effect makes it all very difficult to predict. The Tories are predicted to lose seats in Scotland, but possibly gain as many as eight in Wales, and will they pick up any seats in northern England which voted leave? They may also lose seats in constituencies which voted remain. I'm just hoping the polls are very long, as they were in the last general election.

[Moulin Yarns]

I see big Ruth has said she will swim in Loch Ness naked if the SNP win over fifty seats. My God, that's an horrendous thought; the American sightseers looking for Nessie will be traumatised.

Beat me to it.

Watch live on TV as Ruth goes Skinny Dipping in Loch Ness She has booked the BBC to broadcast it live! https://t.co/uLloxezXyR

[The Modfather]

"Matt Hancock being totally normal around a woman" :greengrin

https://mobile.twitter.com/SoozUK/status/1204681154168795137

To add my highbrow commentary, I would!....

[One Day Soon]

To add my highbrow commentary, I would!....

Each to their own I suppose, but Matt Hancock? Really?

[Ozyhibby]

Beat me to it.

Watch live on TV as Ruth goes Skinny Dipping in Loch Ness She has booked the BBC to broadcast it live! https://t.co/uLloxezXyR

Watch tomorrow nights election coverage as they use 50 as a bench mark for SNP success because Ruth ‘what’s she like’ Davidson has said she’ll go skinny dipping.
Anything above 40 tomorrow is a runaway success for the SNP, don’t let Ruth Davidson tell you any different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

Each to their own I suppose, but Matt Hancock? Really?

:greengrin

[Cataplana]

Why was a BBC journalist reporting this nonsense over social media as if fact? What about checking a story first as a journalist? I've said before camel mooth Kuenssberg is a blatant Tory cheerleader.

I think they maybe saw the mistake. Long discussion on Newsnught yesterday, not about IF it was fake news, but how they did it.

[CloudSquall]

To add my highbrow commentary, I would!....

Suddenly I feel better about my Priti Patel crush :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Suddenly I feel better about my Priti Patel crush :greengrin

Good God - I'd rather **** Matt Hancock!

[Ozyhibby]

Suddenly I feel better about my Priti Patel crush :greengrin

She still alive? Haven’t seen her for weeks. Same with Rees-Mogg. They’ll be all over the tele on Friday morning though I’m sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CloudSquall]

Ooft, Laura Kuenssberg does a Ruth Davidson with predicting the postal votes ( prior warning, turn the volume down before watching, my headphones almost exploded)

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1204770258327887872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1204770258327887872&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamb.net%2Fforum%2Findex .php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsystem%26controller%3 Dembed%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbrexit_ sham%2Fstatus%2F1204770258327887872%3Fs%3D20

[Moulin Yarns]

Ooft, Laura Kuenssberg does a Ruth Davidson with predicting the postal votes ( prior warning, turn the volume down before watching, my headphones almost exploded)

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1204770258327887872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1204770258327887872&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamb.net%2Fforum%2Findex .php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsystem%26controller%3 Dembed%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbrexit_ sham%2Fstatus%2F1204770258327887872%3Fs%3D20

Hi @ElectoralCommUK, it's illegal to view and/or count postal votes ahead of December 12th, and it's surely extremely dubious for news outlets to report on that. So can you start looking into @bbclaurak, @BBCNews and @Conservatives immediately? Thanks.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Ooft, Laura Kuenssberg does a Ruth Davidson with predicting the postal votes ( prior warning, turn the volume down before watching, my headphones almost exploded)

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1204770258327887872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1204770258327887872&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamb.net%2Fforum%2Findex .php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsystem%26controller%3 Dembed%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbrexit_ sham%2Fstatus%2F1204770258327887872%3Fs%3D20

I never used to think she was as bad as so many make out, but her behaviour this week has been appalling. This, plus her spreading the story about a fake punch without a single credible source.

[lapsedhibee]

I never used to think she was as bad as so many make out, but her behaviour this week has been appalling. This, plus her spreading the story about a fake punch without a single credible source.

Claiming that she got the info from two Tory sources was like the old chestnut about buying two copies of The Sun to make sure that what you read in the first one was true.

[jonty]

Ooft, Laura Kuenssberg does a Ruth Davidson with predicting the postal votes ( prior warning, turn the volume down before watching, my headphones almost exploded)

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1204770258327887872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1204770258327887872&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamb.net%2Fforum%2Findex .php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsystem%26controller%3 Dembed%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbrexit_ sham%2Fstatus%2F1204770258327887872%3Fs%3D20

How she can get the job as BBC Political Editor and not know the basics of journalism and electoral law is beyond me.
Any strides that the BBC do to try to show impartiality are quickly undone (and then some) by her.

Mind you, the last one wasn't much better.

[cabbageandribs1875]

“The parties are not meant to look at it but they do get a hint and on both sides people are telling me that the postal votes that are in are looking pretty grim for Labour in a lot of parts of the country.”




why is this practise allowed in the first place

i don't let the wifey at the polling booth see my vote before i pop it in the box

[CloudSquall]

""
Final @BMGResearch poll for @Independent ahead of tomorrow's general election


Tories maintain a nine-point lead over Labour.


Conservatives - 41%
Labour - 32%
Lib Dems - 14%
Green - 4%
Brexit Party - 3%

""


Mirrors yesterday's bigger poll of showing a majority of 25 to 30 seats, with a hung parliaent still a possibility.

[weecounty hibby]

Fomer Labour MPs still queuing up to put the boot into Corbyn:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2019-50739883?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5df0c07dfb9d240676c46cd1%26Fifteen%20f ormer%20Labour%20MPs%20urge%20voters%20not%20to%20 back%20Corbyn%262019-12-11T10%3A29%3A07.795Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:1fcb922d-58d6-49c3-ab52-bce3344b2c7e&pinned_post_asset_id=5df0c07dfb9d240676c46cd1&pinned_post_type=share
Without going back through the whole thread have you linked any of the times where John Major and Ken Clarke amongst other Tories have spoken out against Johnson?

[Dalianwanda]

I'm not "adding stuff on", I'm clarifying my question. When I posted my question initially, I assumed it was obvious that the comparison being drawn was on the basis of a photo being used as a prop to ask a question about government policy, so I didn't feel it was necessary to explicitly explain that. Your reply proved my assumption was incorrect.

You didn't answer my question but, in the hope that you might, I'll try to answer your "what if" point. I think the child is too young to consent to his photo being used in that way. His family's decision would be their decision; I wouldn't want a photo of my child to be used in the way it was, but (a) I've never been in the position they were in, so am not going to judge their actions given the various emotions which were no doubt at play, and (b) they probably didn't fully appreciate how the story would play out and the potential impact of that on their child.

However, irrespective of that, the journalist in question still had a moral decision to make and I feel he made the wrong one. That's just my opinion, but I am genuinely surprised at how willing some people seem to be ignore that in order to use the story for their own benefit.

.

Ignoring your patronising tone, I'll answer......How am I supposed to know the underlying story to a comparison you pose? You come back with "What if the rapist had previously been released from prison early due to a government policy " a 'what if' is adding to/changing what was already asked by yourself.

In this case whether it was the photo quoted or one of a pensioner lying on a trolley for hours on end or of someone standing at a foodbank or a homeless family staying in a hotel. I really dont care, the government needs to be held to account, to see the results of their actions. Compassion is what is required & BJ or the rest of the tory government are showing none. They are showing not an ounce of **** for what their policies are doing & no I dont think the journalist was out of order for what he did.

[grunt]

Claiming that she got the info from two Tory sources was like the old chestnut about buying two copies of The Sun to make sure that what you read in the first one was true.
Hadn't heard that one before.

[grunt]

Without going back through the whole thread have you linked any of the times where John Major and Ken Clarke amongst other Tories have spoken out against Johnson?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/john-major-breaks-urges-voters-stop-boris-johnson-brexit-a4306506.html

[One Day Soon]

Ignoring your patronising tone, I'll answer......How am I supposed to know the underlying story to a comparison you pose? You come back with "What if the rapist had previously been released from prison early due to a government policy " a 'what if' is adding to/changing what was already asked by yourself.

In this case whether it was the photo quoted or one of a pensioner lying on a trolley for hours on end or of someone standing at a foodbank or a homeless family staying in a hotel. I really dont care, the government needs to be held to account, to see the results of their actions. Compassion is what is required & BJ or the rest of the tory government are showing none. They are showing not an ounce of **** for what their policies are doing & no I dont think the journalist was out of order for what he did.

I agree with everything you say about this government. I think I disagree about the journalist though, I felt he crossed a line and it did leave me a little uneasy. It was a bit like watching a referee starting to make a pass or a tackle. The government does need to be held to account for these things and it should be the job of the opposition parties to do that effectively.

A journalist could try the same thing with Nicola Sturgeon over the state of parts of Govanhill or Labour in Wales on their health record and that wouldn't be right either. I'm not sure that because it is Boris Johnson, who must be one of the most preposterous candidates for Prime Minister there has ever been, that normal journalistic practice should be played fast and loose. It looked a bit like an interview done in the style of social media posting - almost gimmicky.

I really despise Johnson, but I struggled with this a bit.

[weecounty hibby]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/john-major-breaks-urges-voters-stop-boris-johnson-brexit-a4306506.html

Yeah, I know they are there. Just wondered if that particular poster had linked them or if it was just anti Corbyn links he posted. After continuing to post lies in support of Johnson that were proven to be such I guess I know the answer.

[CathroMustStay]

In all 13 tory seats, the SNP are the only party that can beat them.

Vote SNP in Scotland. Hopefully England doesn't collectively foist upon us a Tory majority government as they've done in the vast majority of elections since 1979.

Every single vote counts, as Stephen Gethins' 2 vote victory over the Lib Dems in 2017 demonstrated.

[G B Young]

Would you prefer that these shocking situations should be covered up?

What age do you think should someone be before their plight is publicised? Is there a highest age too?

The fact that our children are being treated so poorly by the NHS is the fault of the government. Of course it's a political issue.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make, but as I said it's only my opinion.

[degenerated]

He's trying to hide his own incompetence. He'd rather be known as a coward than an idiot.He has nothing to gain from doing these interviews, but everything to lose. If I was in his position I would do exactly the same.

He's still a twat, likes [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Sylar]

I've been hearing a lot of murmuring in our constituency (Lanark and Hamilton East) that the Conservatives are polling far better than the SNP. Worrying, because it was a 266 majority in the last election with Labour/Lib Dems nowhere near.

I'll be holding my nose and voting for the SNP rather than spoiling (which was my plan A, as none of the 4 candidates are palatable IMO). I dislike that a vote for the SNP will be manipulated at a later point as a mandate for IndyRef2, but so be it - I can have my say on that separately, should that ever occur.

[Future17]

“The parties are not meant to look at it but they do get a hint and on both sides people are telling me that the postal votes that are in are looking pretty grim for Labour in a lot of parts of the country.”




why is this practise allowed in the first place

i don't let the wifey at the polling booth see my vote before i pop it in the box

Reps from the parties are allowed to attend postal vote openings to ensure there is no impropriety on the part of the count staff. The reps technically shouldn't be able to see who each vote has been cast for but, realistically, it's practically impossible to allow them close enough to observe the process, but far enough away not to see the vote.


Ignoring your patronising tone, I'll answer......How am I supposed to know the underlying story to a comparison you pose? You come back with "What if the rapist had previously been released from prison early due to a government policy " a 'what if' is adding to/changing what was already asked by yourself.

In this case whether it was the photo quoted or one of a pensioner lying on a trolley for hours on end or of someone standing at a foodbank or a homeless family staying in a hotel. I really dont care, the government needs to be held to account, to see the results of their actions. Compassion is what is required & BJ or the rest of the tory government are showing none. They are showing not an ounce of **** for what their policies are doing & no I dont think the journalist was out of order for what he did.

I actually was conscious that my tone might come across as patronising in my first paragraph, so rewrote it a few times...I guess I still failed to avoid it though! :greengrin

I appreciate you answering my question, though I am shocked by your response. I don't see it as compassionate to exploit people who have no say in their photo being used in this way. It's potentially humiliating and, for me, unnecessary.

I don't disagree with your view of Johnson and the Government but, as I said before on this subject, it shouldn't be a race to the bottom with regard to what is morally acceptable to remove them from power.

[cabbageandribs1875]

bajings, what a pathetic bunch the Fib Dems are, seriously...

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/1039564/complaint-to-police-after-picture-shows-snp-activists-handing-out-free-mince-pies-in-fife/

Police Scotland are understood to have been contacted by a member of the public after pictures of SNP campaigners at a stall in of Newport-on-Tay on Monday appeared on social media after the event.
The complainant is said to have alleged that the festive snacks and warm apple juice being enjoyed in Cupar Road breached electoral law under section 114 of the 1983 Representation of the People Act which forbids the practice of ‘treating’.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Reps from the parties are allowed to attend postal vote openings to ensure there is no impropriety on the part of the count staff. The reps technically shouldn't be able to see who each vote has been cast for but, realistically, it's practically impossible to allow them close enough to observe the process, but far enough away not to see the vote.

.


muchas gracias for explaining the process :aok:

[Future17]

muchas gracias for explaining the process :aok:

:aok:


bajings, what a pathetic bunch the Fib Dems are, seriously...

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/1039564/complaint-to-police-after-picture-shows-snp-activists-handing-out-free-mince-pies-in-fife/

Police Scotland are understood to have been contacted by a member of the public after pictures of SNP campaigners at a stall in of Newport-on-Tay on Monday appeared on social media after the event.
The complainant is said to have alleged that the festive snacks and warm apple juice being enjoyed in Cupar Road breached electoral law under section 114 of the 1983 Representation of the People Act which forbids the practice of ‘treating’.

The Police will love that almost as much as the Crown Office. :greengrin

[Dalianwanda]

Reps from the parties are allowed to attend postal vote openings to ensure there is no impropriety on the part of the count staff. The reps technically shouldn't be able to see who each vote has been cast for but, realistically, it's practically impossible to allow them close enough to observe the process, but far enough away not to see the vote.



I actually was conscious that my tone might come across as patronising in my first paragraph, so rewrote it a few times...I guess I still failed to avoid it though! :greengrin

I appreciate you answering my question, though I am shocked by your response. I don't see it as compassionate to exploit people who have no say in their photo being used in this way. It's potentially humiliating and, for me, unnecessary.

I don't disagree with your view of Johnson and the Government but, as I said before on this subject, it shouldn't be a race to the bottom with regard to what is morally acceptable to remove them from power.

No harm done it can be difficult to set tone especially on something so emotive. 😉

The london terror victim who’s father asked politicians specifically not to be capitalised politically. It’s a disgrace that it was. In terms of showing a picture (which was out in public domain from the parent) in a one on one discussion is something different in my opinion. I wouldn’t have shared a picture of my own child to a newspaper in the first place.

Would it have made a difference if the reporter had just referenced the photo when speaking to BJ seeing as it was out there anyway?

[cabbageandribs1875]

dunno what's happening here

https://media1.tenor.com/images/caf4134f353ddc5e721bef603d16957f/tenor.gif?itemid=11566704

[CloudSquall]

Hugh Grant wasn't holding back on Piers earlier on Twitter!

https://mobile.twitter.com/HackedOffHugh/status/1204851528105902083

[Future17]

No harm done it can be difficult to set tone especially on something so emotive. 😉

The london terror victim who’s father asked politicians specifically not to be capitalised politically. It’s a disgrace that it was. In terms of showing a picture (which was out in public domain from the parent) in a one on one discussion is something different in my opinion. I wouldn’t have shared a picture of my own child to a newspaper in the first place.

Would it have made a difference if the reporter had just referenced the photo when speaking to BJ seeing as it was out there anyway?

Yeah, I think referencing the photo would have been acceptable and I agree with you in that I wouldn't have shared a photo my child in that way either.

[Ozyhibby]

I've been hearing a lot of murmuring in our constituency (Lanark and Hamilton East) that the Conservatives are polling far better than the SNP. Worrying, because it was a 266 majority in the last election with Labour/Lib Dems nowhere near.

I'll be holding my nose and voting for the SNP rather than spoiling (which was my plan A, as none of the 4 candidates are palatable IMO). I dislike that a vote for the SNP will be manipulated at a later point as a mandate for IndyRef2, but so be it - I can have my say on that separately, should that ever occur.

Last sentence is spot on. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Harp Awakes]

I've been hearing a lot of murmuring in our constituency (Lanark and Hamilton East) that the Conservatives are polling far better than the SNP. Worrying, because it was a 266 majority in the last election with Labour/Lib Dems nowhere near.

I'll be holding my nose and voting for the SNP rather than spoiling (which was my plan A, as none of the 4 candidates are palatable IMO). I dislike that a vote for the SNP will be manipulated at a later point as a mandate for IndyRef2, but so be it - I can have my say on that separately, should that ever occur.

Out of interest, where are you hearing the mumurings?

[Ozyhibby]

Only late poll that gives a whiff of a chance for a hung parliament.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191211/bb35ee70cd9ce14289f3df8fe32e7ee3.jpg
Last election Labour was only 2.5% behind and the Tories were very close to a majority. To get a hung parliament from 5% behind is a stretch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CloudSquall]

Poll for Scotland below,

@Survation
final #GE2019 poll (fully weighted Scotland subsample n=910)


SNP 45.6%
CON 27.4%
LAB 14.8%
LD 9.6%
BXP 1.4%
GRN 1.1%


SNP figure is on the high side compared to other polls.

[Ozyhibby]

Poll for Scotland below,

@Survation
final #GE2019 poll (fully weighted Scotland subsample n=910)


SNP 45.6%
CON 27.4%
LAB 14.8%
LD 9.6%
BXP 1.4%
GRN 1.1%


SNP figure is on the high side compared to other polls.

Would be sensational result if this turned out to be true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Colr]

He has nothing to gain from doing these interviews, but everything to lose. If I was in his position I would do exactly the same.

He's still a twat, likes [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

[Mr Grieves]

Would be sensational result if this turned out to be true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not quite right.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/1039917/general-election-exclusive-courier-poll-suggests-conservatives-and-snp-to-be-tonights-big-winners/amp/?utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

SNP 43
Tory 28
Lab 20
Lib dem 7

They've also got an independence poll which has no slightly ahead.

Yes 49.3
No 50.7

[Brightside]

It's not quite right.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/1039917/general-election-exclusive-courier-poll-suggests-conservatives-and-snp-to-be-tonights-big-winners/amp/?utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

SNP 43
Tory 28
Lab 20
Lib dem 7

They've also got an independence poll which has no slightly ahead.

Yes 49.3
No 50.7

Astounding that there are still so many Tory voters in Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

Astounding that there are still so many Tory voters in Scotland.

They have wrapped themselves in the union flag. There will always be a good proportion of British Nationalists.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

I voted just after 8 this morning and the polling station was mobbed at the Hays at Niddrie. Primarily younger people as well which bodes well.

I had the SNP canvassers at my door last week and they said they were very confident. Tories are a pretty distant 3rd anyway so as long as the elected candidate is Labour or SNP them I'm happy.

[HiBremian]

Astounding that there are still so many Tory voters in Scotland.

Most astounding of all are those Labour voters “lending” their vote to the Tories to keep the SNP out. By doing so they help deny giving their own party any chance of power. The fetish that is Brexit obviously trumps everything else for encouraging self-harm but Unionism is surely a close second.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SHODAN]

All the opinion polls are showing a 10% Tory lead on average. Even adjusting for uncertainly it's almost definitely going to be a majority unless people my age actually bother. We're ****ed.

[Dalianwanda]

Yeah, I think referencing the photo would have been acceptable and I agree with you in that I wouldn't have shared a photo my child in that way either.

Ok so there’s where we differ. The end game was to get BJ to recognise and think about his parties actions and consequences. Whether he sees it and thinks about it or it’s referenced and he conjures up a memory of it. Only out is he can state he’s never seen it and deny it exist.

[danhibees1875]

I voted just after 8 this morning and the polling station was mobbed at the Hays at Niddrie. Primarily younger people as well which bodes well.

I had the SNP canvassers at my door last week and they said they were very confident. Tories are a pretty distant 3rd anyway so as long as the elected candidate is Labour or SNP them I'm happy.

I voted just before 8 and there was only 1 other person in the polling station! I done so pretty apathetically as I only want to ensure its not a tory and as you say, they're miles behind.

I've not been canvassed at all this election which has been very pleasant. :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

dunno what's happening here

https://media1.tenor.com/images/caf4134f353ddc5e721bef603d16957f/tenor.gif?itemid=11566704

Apparently Johnson hid in a fridge to avoid a TV interview with Good Morning Britain.

He's used to hiding in fridges, though.

And in wardrobes.

[Pretty Boy]

I voted just before 8 and there was only 1 other person in the polling station! I done so pretty apathetically as I only want to ensure its not a tory and as you say, they're miles behind.

I've not been canvassed at all this election which has been very pleasant. :greengrin

I was dropping the bairn at nursery just next door and there was a stampede of parents from there straight to the polling station so that maybe explains why it was busy.

Some muppet got asked to leave for filming on his phone.

[Ozyhibby]

Was busy at my polling station this morning as well and based on this totally unscientific survey I’m calling it for a big turnout today in Scotland.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Last polls:

BMG, Panelbase, TNS were all static. ComRes, Deltapoll and Survation all picked up further movement to Lab. But the average is still a Tory lead of +9. So, for a hung parliament the polls have to be overestimating the Tory lead by about 3% or there has to be a shedload of tactical voting that the polls haven't picked up.

Still looking grim.

Pray that Professor Curtice comes down the chimney tonight with another shock exit poll.

[The Harp Awakes]

Most astounding of all are those Labour voters “lending” their vote to the Tories to keep the SNP out. By doing so they help deny giving their own party any chance of power. The fetish that is Brexit obviously trumps everything else for encouraging self-harm but Unionism is surely a close second.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The Labour candidate in East Lothian is going into overdrive on his pro-union stance and begging the traditional tories and liberals to vote for him to keep the SNP out. He's reminded me why all 13 of my immediate family of a voting age, switched from Labour to SNP years ago.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50755464?fbclid=IwAR2H8J1pwwjoPoTucCDG5ZbS0OhlZZqL Yl0Cl1XoGWdUIU9oKT4vmbcIBjQ

A controlled explosion has been carried out near a polling station in North Lanarkshire after a suspicious device was found.
Police said the "non-viable device" was found on the ground floor of Glen Tower flats in Motherwell at about 01:00.
A community room in the building was due to be used as a polling station for voters in the area.


maybe just unfortunate it was left near a polling station

[marinello59]

The Labour candidate in East Lothian is going into overdrive on his pro-union stance and begging the traditional tories and liberals to vote for him to keep the SNP out. He's reminded me why all 13 of my immediate family of a voting age, switched from Labour to SNP years ago.

And what’s the difference between that and the SNP begging traditional Labour and LibDems to vote for them to keep the Tories out? They are all trying to maximise their own vote. If it’s a fair tactic for one side surely it’s a fair tactic for the other one.

[Pretty Boy]

The Labour candidate in East Lothian is going into overdrive on his pro-union stance and begging the traditional tories and liberals to vote for him to keep the SNP out. He's reminded me why all 13 of my immediate family of a voting age, switched from Labour to SNP years ago.

I struggle to see a way back for Labour in Scotland. A chunk of their core vote seems to have shifted to the SNP. Their tactic of going after the No vote seems to be failing miserably as well with the Tories taking a majority of that.

It's worth considering that a lot of people under 35 don't feel the same affinity to Labour in Scotland that our parents and grandparents did. I can remember the almost palpable excitement of some older members of my family in 1997 when it was obvious Labour had done it. OK, it was a watered down Labour but it was still a Labour government after nearly 20 years.

Richard Leonard has spectacularly failed to connect with voters and the fact Labour are polling a pretty remote 3rd in Scotland suggests Corbyn hasn't done much better.

As a Labour voter 'lending' my vote to the SNP it's a sad state of affairs but one very much of their own making.

[HiBremian]

And what’s the difference between that and the SNP begging traditional Labour and LibDems to vote for them to keep the Tories out? They are all trying to maximise their own vote. If it’s a fair tactic for one side surely it’s a fair tactic for the other one.

It's obvious - policy alignment. As I said above, unionism has become a fetish that makes some people ignore all other policy areas, from the economy to inequality to the environment to the NHS.

[marinello59]

It's obvious - policy alignment. As I said above, unionism has become a fetish that makes some people ignore all other policy areas, from the economy to inequality to the environment to the NHS.

You could argue that Independence has exactly the same effect. At times it looks like Yes and Brexit swap arguments depending on which referendum they are talking about. :greengrin

[HiBremian]

You could argue that Independence has exactly the same effect. At times it looks like Yes and Brexit swap arguments depending on which referendum they are talking about. :greengrin

Personally, I see the Yesser position on constitutional questions to be considerably more nuanced than that :cb:greengrin

[heretoday]

I'd have thought Laura K's remarks about postal votes would be likely to encourage folk to go out and vote Labour if anything. That's what I'm off to do right now anyway!

[One Day Soon]

It's obvious - policy alignment. As I said above, unionism has become a fetish that makes some people ignore all other policy areas, from the economy to inequality to the environment to the NHS.

Substitute the term unionism for nationalism in the post above and you have a perfectly serviceable alternative post.

[Chorley Hibee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50755464?fbclid=IwAR2H8J1pwwjoPoTucCDG5ZbS0OhlZZqL Yl0Cl1XoGWdUIU9oKT4vmbcIBjQ

A controlled explosion has been carried out near a polling station in North Lanarkshire after a suspicious device was found.
Police said the "non-viable device" was found on the ground floor of Glen Tower flats in Motherwell at about 01:00.
A community room in the building was due to be used as a polling station for voters in the area.


maybe just unfortunate it was left near a polling station

This was my polling station, now been asked to attend another polling station in Motherwell.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Plenty noise on twitter of high turnout. Fingers crossed, but don't want to get my hopes up to be crushed in a few hours.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79256674_3422504364488004_6828230644603027456_n.jp g?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=rSWbUcH0yQIAQmXMhEMuvMfMoKxkAlqDbnzj1HIEQv lVaX-REq170THMg&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=de5b648b0062374d8569f738c2e93337&oe=5E6D9EF8

[Future17]

Ok so there’s where we differ. The end game was to get BJ to recognise and think about his parties actions and consequences. Whether he sees it and thinks about it or it’s referenced and he conjures up a memory of it. Only out is he can state he’s never seen it and deny it exist.

Yeah, I can understand the tactic and I do think it produced a different outcome than the standard dodging of questions which Johnson has made himself known for...I just think it's sinking too low, but understand others feel differently.


I struggle to see a way back for Labour in Scotland.

I think we've touched on it on this part of the messageboard before but, ironically, Labour's best hope of power in Scotland is probably independence.

[cabbageandribs1875]

This was my polling station, now been asked to attend another polling station in Motherwell.


lets hope there's CCTV in use somewhere to identify the coward

[Hibernia&Alba]

I struggle to see a way back for Labour in Scotland. A chunk of their core vote seems to have shifted to the SNP. Their tactic of going after the No vote seems to be failing miserably as well with the Tories taking a majority of that.

It's worth considering that a lot of people under 35 don't feel the same affinity to Labour in Scotland that our parents and grandparents did. I can remember the almost palpable excitement of some older members of my family in 1997 when it was obvious Labour had done it. OK, it was a watered down Labour but it was still a Labour government after nearly 20 years.

Richard Leonard has spectacularly failed to connect with voters and the fact Labour are polling a pretty remote 3rd in Scotland suggests Corbyn hasn't done much better.

As a Labour voter 'lending' my vote to the SNP it's a sad state of affairs but one very much of their own making.

Yes, the central belt was solid Labour for decades; there was no prospect of their losing those seats. I think disillusion with New Labour gave the SNP a major opportunity to claim the progressive ground, with policies such as free university tuition. There were other factors of course: devolution raised the SNP profile enormously. It's very different than a generation ago, with the SNP now every bit as dominant as Labour once were.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Last polls:

BMG, Panelbase, TNS were all static. ComRes, Deltapoll and Survation all picked up further movement to Lab. But the average is still a Tory lead of +9. So, for a hung parliament the polls have to be overestimating the Tory lead by about 3% or there has to be a shedload of tactical voting that the polls haven't picked up.

Still looking grim.

Pray that Professor Curtice comes down the chimney tonight with another shock exit poll.

It's looking grim. Let's hope tactical voting and a high turnout from under 25s and students makes a difference.

[Glory Lurker]

Has the SNP won yet?

[SHODAN]

Plenty noise on twitter of high turnout. Fingers crossed, but don't want to get my hopes up to be crushed in a few hours.

I have a feeling that's just people seeing what they want to see.

[Ozyhibby]

Substitute the term unionism for nationalism in the post above and you have a perfectly serviceable alternative post.

That can only go so far for either side. People forget that what brought the SNP to power in the first place was policies, primarily the offer to freeze council tax after years of massive above inflation rises under labour and scrapping tuition fees.
The reason the Tories can’t break through the 28% base of hard core British nationalists is that it does not yet have a policy offer. It it ever does then the SNP will need to be smart and not ignore the potential threat like Labour did with them.


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[Glory Lurker]

I have a feeling that's just people seeing what they want to see.

I fear that's probably right. No evidence of it when I voted earlier, although that's obviously not a scientific sample.

[BigKev]

I’m genuinely of the belief the Tories are only polling so high in Scotland due to TRFC fan base.

Their anti SNP rhetoric is rife among their support since Alex Salmond didn’t do enough to save the original club and they resonate with Tory policy such as being massively pro union and pro Brexit.

I’ve had a former SNP supporting friend have his head turned by the bile he hears at Ibrox on match day from supposedly intelligent people. He genuinely now believes the SNP are “Celtic minded” and have it in for Rangers and their fans.

[Killiehibbie]

I’m genuinely of the belief the Tories are only polling so high in Scotland due to TRFC fan base.

Their anti SNP rhetoric is rife among their support since Alex Salmond didn’t do enough to save the original club and they resonate with Tory policy such as being massively pro union and pro Brexit.

I’ve had a former SNP supporting friend have his head turned by the bile he hears at Ibrox on match day from supposedly intelligent people. He genuinely now believes the SNP are “Celtic minded” and have it in for Rangers and their fans.

Anybody who supports breaking up the union must be a catholic, republican, anti rangers or any other imagined affront to their reason for existing.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I voted just after 8 this morning and the polling station was mobbed at the Hays at Niddrie. Primarily younger people as well which bodes well.

I had the SNP canvassers at my door last week and they said they were very confident. Tories are a pretty distant 3rd anyway so as long as the elected candidate is Labour or SNP them I'm happy.

Seen an article from the Metro on FB this morning saying that turnout at some London polling stations was looking high, with big queues forming. I wouldn't know if that means anything personally, but the locals were apparently impressed by it as something that doesn't normally happen.

London was a remain voting city and big turnouts tend to be good news for Labour down south, as they are for the SNP in Scotland. If your experience is mirroring a general trend and turnouts are going to be high all over the UK it could be good news .... IE a better day for Labour in England and Wales and a good day for the SNP in Scotland.

Whatever happens in Scotland as another poster all too accurately pointed out, anything less than 50 seats for the SNP will be painted as a defeat by the overwhelmingly Tory / Unionist press up here. I mean lets face it, what in any normal democracy would have been seen as a crushing defeat of 35 to 13 last time out ( the equivalent of a consolation goal in football ) somehow turned the leader who presided over that into a political genius ... only in Scotland :faf:

[marinello59]

That can only go so far for either side. People forget that what brought the SNP to power in the first place was policies, primarily the offer to freeze council tax after years of massive above inflation rises under labour and scrapping tuition fees.
The reason the Tories can’t break through the 28% base of hard core British nationalists is that it does not yet have a policy offer. It it ever does then the SNP will need to be smart and not ignore the potential threat like Labour did with them.


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They didn’t offer to freeze council tax. They promised to scrap it .

[cabbageandribs1875]

wasted vote for the SNP.. :bitchy:

https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79658289_10213739112506854_1377582615271309312_o.j pg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=hqHuAhkh-DQAQkc6XY8uGbj25mN5xbLmG-5mOaTavdaNB-WiIiRKzuZOQ&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=9feec4f5fb788a0f1306f5362c7b12d3&oe=5E8893C2






down south :)

[CloudSquall]

Whatever happens in Scotland as another poster all too accurately pointed out, anything less than 50 seats for the SNP will be painted as a defeat by the overwhelmingly Tory / Unionist press up here. I mean lets face it, what in any normal democracy would have been seen as a crushing defeat of 35 to 13 last time out ( the equivalent of a consolation goal in football ) somehow turned the leader who presided over that into a political genius ... only in Scotland :faf:

I saw a good tweet today that said Ruth talking about 50 seats for the SNP was the equivalent of Corbyn trying to paint anything less than 550 seats for the Tories as a Tory defeat.

I think 2015 was fantastic at the time for the SNP but anything under 50+ seats is going to be painted as a defeat, even if the SNP take over 50% of the seats.

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/whiskyqueen89/status/1203353931054821376

STAUNCH

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://mobile.twitter.com/whiskyqueen89/status/1203353931054821376

STAUNCH

They won't even have a green tree in the house:greengrin

A Christmas tree covered in poppies. Nothing is sacred.

[JimBHibees]

Apparently Johnson hid in a fridge to avoid a TV interview with Good Morning Britain.

He's used to hiding in fridges, though.

And in wardrobes.

Is that true?

[Moulin Yarns]

Is that true?

Yes.

[danhibees1875]

Is that true?

I think he was on a tour of a local dairy farm or something and walked into a fridge whilst being asked questions.

I think it's more likely he was just on part of his tour and opted not to stop midway in order to answer questions. However, I much prefer the idea that he hid in a fridge. :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Is that true?

Wasn't a domestic fridge though. Too fat to get in one of them.

[JimBHibees]

I’m genuinely of the belief the Tories are only polling so high in Scotland due to TRFC fan base.

Their anti SNP rhetoric is rife among their support since Alex Salmond didn’t do enough to save the original club and they resonate with Tory policy such as being massively pro union and pro Brexit.

I’ve had a former SNP supporting friend have his head turned by the bile he hears at Ibrox on match day from supposedly intelligent people. He genuinely now believes the SNP are “Celtic minded” and have it in for Rangers and their fans.

Where to start with all that. Many of the Rangers support will come from working class communities negatively impacted by Tory austerity. It was a factor in the last independence vote IMO.

[Dalianwanda]

Yeah, I can understand the tactic and I do think it produced a different outcome than the standard dodging of questions which Johnson has made himself known for...I just think it's sinking too low, but understand others feel.

I hear ya....Fingers crossed that there’s a result today that makes him wish he’d stayed in the fridge :-)

[Moulin Yarns]

Wasn't a domestic fridge though. Too fat to get in one of them.

He walked into the fridge only after he realised it wouldn't fit in his pocket.

[marinello59]

Has anybody here changed their mind about who they were going to vote for since the campaign started?

[Ozyhibby]

Has anybody here changed there mind about who they were going to vote for since the campaign started?

I would imagine only tactical voters. No party had a particularly inspiring campaign although the Tory campaign did seem to make them look bigger ***** than usual.


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[GlesgaeHibby]

https://twitter.com/hot_diggity_d/status/1204860593934610432?s=19

Another absolute shocker from the BBC.

[Hibbyradge]

Has anybody here changed there mind about who they were going to vote for since the campaign started?

Yes, I have, sort of.

I was going to vote Lib Dem to try to oust the sitting Tory MP, but all the tactical voting sites say Labour has the best chance of defeating him in this safe Tory constituency.

I was always voting against the Tories rather than for any other party, if you know what I mean.

[weecounty hibby]

Has anybody here changed there mind about who they were going to vote for since the campaign started?

I haven't changed my mind about how to vote since long before I was old enough to vote. My vote will be up for grabs again when Scotland is an independent nation. I would say that with every passing GE where Scotland gets a Tory government my resolve hardens

[Pretty Boy]

https://twitter.com/hot_diggity_d/status/1204860593934610432?s=19

Another absolute shocker from the BBC.

I watched that last night and my initial reaction was it was just someone getting their words muddled and they meant to say 'he so desires'. A slip of the tongue, perhaps a Freudian slip right enough.

[Pretty Boy]

Out of interest is it true Johnson only has a 1% lead in his own constituency and didn't turn up to vote there himself?

If it is true and Labour can convince a few Lib Dems and independent voters to help them out it could be a hilarious evening.

[Hibs90]

Where to start with all that. Many of the Rangers support will come from working class communities negatively impacted by Tory austerity. It was a factor in the last independence vote IMO.

Totally agree.

[Bostonhibby]

Has anybody here changed there mind about who they were going to vote for since the campaign started?Yes, have to vote tactically round here unless you're a Boris drone. Unlikely to make any difference as the sitting Tory will still win so it's about at least hoping to significantly cut the majority.

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[Green Man]

Out of interest is it true Johnson only has a 1% lead in his own constituency and didn't turn up to vote there himself?

If it is true and Labour can convince a few Lib Dems and independent voters to help them out it could be a hilarious evening.

His majority last time was about 5000, not sure of the percentage. He voted in Westminster, where the Tory majority is about 3000.

[BroxburnHibee]

Out of interest is it true Johnson only has a 1% lead in his own constituency and didn't turn up to vote there himself?

If it is true and Labour can convince a few Lib Dems and independent voters to help them out it could be a hilarious evening.

It is true and hes not the only leading tory at risk.

Duncan Smith, Raab, Redwood are 3 I'm aware off but I think theres more.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I think he was on a tour of a local dairy farm or something and walked into a fridge whilst being asked questions.

I think it's more likely he was just on part of his tour and opted not to stop midway in order to answer questions. However, I much prefer the idea that he hid in a fridge. :greengrin

I think he was pasteurised before anyone noticed.

[Killiehibbie]

Out of interest is it true Johnson only has a 1% lead in his own constituency and didn't turn up to vote there himself?

If it is true and Labour can convince a few Lib Dems and independent voters to help them out it could be a hilarious evening.


10% majority last election. Hopefully opinion polls are right and a few swing votes put the **** out of parliament.


Strictly speaking, there is no law that requires the prime minister to be a member of Parliament, only a longstanding convention.

Is this true?

[Mon Dieu4]

I voted SNP, no surprises there, only the SNP and the Greens ever talk up Scotland, the rest just tell us why we are too wee and poor to do anything

[Callum_62]

Hmmm. [emoji102]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191212/1b3be3c4101552a7e550dca34485023d.jpg

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[Hibernia&Alba]

Has anybody here changed their mind about who they were going to vote for since the campaign started?

No, I voted Green as usual. Had it been necessary to vote tactically against the Tories, I would have.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Jackson Carlaw committing electoral fraud or lying about one of the votes as a PR stunt?

https://twitter.com/lumi_1984/status/1205174449395453953?s=19

[CloudSquall]

Carlaw claming he had a couple of proxy votes to submit, so at best he's lied out his arse about him personally casting his vote.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Odds of a hung parliament gone from 9/2 a few days ago, 3/1 start of day. Now at 6/4

[lapsedhibee]

Jackson Carlaw committing electoral fraud or lying about one of the votes as a PR stunt?

https://twitter.com/lumi_1984/status/1205174449395453953?s=19

A stunt which at one time would have been called stupid but, since the genius Cummings took his party over, is now thought of as clever.

[Scorrie]

Odds of a hung parliament gone from 9/2 a few days ago, 3/1 start of day. Now at 6/4

Just seen that. Dunno if the bookies are reacting to the money or someone has seen an early exit poll. Tory majority still favourite but odds have been slashed during the day...

[Pretty Boy]

A lot of anecdotal evidence that the youth vote is out. If that is the case and not just people seeing what they want to see then it could be interesting. I think polls quite regularly underestimate the under 25s vote.

I've just said elsewhere that whether the rumours of high turnout amongst youngsters is true or not it will hopefully send a message to them. A lot of people want them to vote, engage and make their voices heard. Political parties will pitch to those they know will vote and if young people increasingly do then politicians will take notice.

[Jack Hackett]

Came across this insightful article in The New European by a psychiatrist, which paints a grim picture of what is... and will increasingly, happen to our democracy if/when the fat philandering liar is returned.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/steven-taylor-on-the-psychology-of-boris-johnson-1-6418345

Edit

Rain's stopped, so off over the road to put my cross. Tactically voting for the Greens, even though the seat looks safe, just to register a vote against the fat philandering liar.

I'm not going to be watching any of the coverage. I want a nights sleep. Plenty of time for elation/despair tomorrow.

[Ozyhibby]

I voted SNP, no surprises there, only the SNP and the Greens ever talk up Scotland, the rest just tell us why we are too wee and poor to do anything

Yip, until the British nationalist parties stop greeting the annual GERS figures with glee pointing out a deficit without coming up with solutions then they don’t deserve to be considered.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

Odds of a hung parliament gone from 9/2 a few days ago, 3/1 start of day. Now at 6/4

Now you're just building up our hopes :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

my prediction machine tells me SNP will get 39 seats



hung parliament, lib dems form a coalition with fridge man, talks have already taken place mind :wink:




then again, maybe a labour win, which will be needing the vote of the largest opposition party to get things done, etc etc

[Pretty Boy]

Hung parliament now 13/8 with William Hill. Tory majority is 8/15.

Boris 5/1 to lose his seat, that was 4/1 earlier.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Hung parliament now 13/8 with William Hill. Tory majority is 8/15.

Boris 5/1 to lose his seat, that was 4/1 earlier.

That would be the greatest single result ever.

[CloudSquall]

my prediction machine tells me SNP will get 39 seats



Pray for my laptop if the SNP come in under 40 seats and Ruth and Jackson appear with their smug faces proudly declaring a victory for the union, I've got enough wine in to make sure I can get through that event...

[cabbageandribs1875]

Next Government To Be Labour Minority was 5/1 .....now 7/1 worth a 50p gamble

[cabbageandribs1875]

Pray for my laptop if the SNP come in under 40 seats and Ruth and Jackson appear with their smug faces proudly declaring a victory for the union, I've got enough wine in to make sure I can get through that event...


they could dress that up however they want, considering they campaigned that this was apparently an indy2 election, 39 is still a thumpingly good return, 49 would be amazingly brilliant thus avoiding the mooth jumping into loch ness, thus avoiding a resulting tsunami, and nessie will be saved...win win


the tory vote will only go up with the help of labour/lib dem tactical voting

[Bristolhibby]

Just got my mate to vote Labour.

He lives in Jacob Rees-Moggs constituency and surprisingly Labour are the next biggest party.

J

[Green Man]

I’ve just been out to vote Green. There was a steady stream of voters while I was there, didn’t have to queue more than a few minutes but it’s the busiest I’ve seen the polling place in recent times.

[weecounty hibby]

Pray for my laptop if the SNP come in under 40 seats and Ruth and Jackson appear with their smug faces proudly declaring a victory for the union, I've got enough wine in to make sure I can get through that event...
The last poll I saw showed 47 seats for SNP. Can't remember who did it. Hopefully that is closer to the mark

Edit. Found it. It was Prof Curtice

[we are hibs]

https://twitter.com/ljayes/status/1205205524352045056?s=19



Oh my 😂

[Callum_62]

What actually happens if Bojo loses his seat but the tories still form the gov?

Assuming just general mockery?

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[Pretty Boy]

What actually happens if Bojo loses his seat but the tories still form the gov?

Assuming just general mockery?

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I think they would get him into the Lords and he would rule from there with someone speaking for him in the Commons.

I could almost tolerate another 5 years of Tory rule just to see that ****s face. A man so used to getting his own way being utterly humiliated on his own patch.

[weecounty hibby]

https://twitter.com/ljayes/status/1205205524352045056?s=19



Oh my 😂
Oh, please god let that be true!!🙏🤞

[lapsedhibee]

https://twitter.com/ljayes/status/1205205524352045056?s=19



Oh my 😂

Just more Tory lies to get their vote out and increase his majority.

[Ozyhibby]

I think they would get him into the Lords and he would rule from there with someone speaking for him in the Commons.

I could almost tolerate another 5 years of Tory rule just to see that ****s face. A man so used to getting his own way being utterly humiliated on his own patch.

I’m pretty sure he would be made to stand down.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

Just more Tory lies to get their vote out and increase his majority.

Yes, I think so, to prevent an embarrassingly close result. It would be great if true, though.


I’m pretty sure he would be made to stand down.


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Yes, again. He'd have to go.

[Bristolhibby]

I think they would get him into the Lords and he would rule from there with someone speaking for him in the Commons.

I could almost tolerate another 5 years of Tory rule just to see that ****s face. A man so used to getting his own way being utterly humiliated on his own patch.

By a British born Muslim no less. The Gammon would combust.

J

[Pretty Boy]

I’m pretty sure he would be made to stand down.


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Yep I agree.

My would should have read could. It's possible he could work from the Lord's but impractical and unlikely.

[Lancs Harp]

Just put my cross in the box ........ and Flo nodded it in. :wink:

[Killiehibbie]

Yep I agree.

My would should have read could. It's possible he could work from the Lord's but impractical and unlikely.

I read that they would most likely bribe a tory in one of the safest seats to resign and have him back in after a by election

[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1205218026997596160

"The phrase 'a majority of one is still a majority' is doing the rounds"


Oooft, I hope it ends up as juicy as it's sounding now...

[Pretty Boy]

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1205218026997596160

"The phrase 'a majority of one is still a majority' is doing the rounds"


Oooft, I hope it ends up as juicy as it's sounding now...

Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of replies suggesting the Tories are doing very well in Wales, the North of England and leave voting Labour seats.

This could well be the strangest election in most of our lifetimes.

[Pretty Boy]

Hung parliament back to 9/4 with the bookies now. Tory majority 4/11......

[CloudSquall]

The pound started to rise strongly in the past hour which gives the idea that there is confidence in a Tory majority..

[Northernhibee]

Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of replies suggesting the Tories are doing very well in Wales, the North of England and leave voting Labour seats.

This could well be the strangest election in most of our lifetimes.

****ing idiots. The ones who will suffer most.

[Hibernia&Alba]

****ing idiots. The ones who will suffer most.

Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

[Northernhibee]

The pound started to rise strongly in the past hour which gives the idea that there is confidence in a Tory majority..

It’s the brief moments of hope that kill you.