General election 2019

[Cataplana]

I think more than a quarter of Scotland's Jewish community live in Newton Mearns so it probably won't correlate to the national average and the Labour candidate may well have been heading for a pasting there even before she asked constituents not to vote for her.
:aok:

[cabbageandribs1875]

lib dems stop campaigning on revoking article 50 should they win(i know i know)

The Liberal Democrats have stopped campaigning on their policy of revoking Article 50 amid concern about its unpopularity on the doorstep, and have switched to asking voters to deny Boris Johnson (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/boris-johnson) a majority.Activists have complained that the pledge to cancel Brexit (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dems-vote-to-bin-brexit-without-a-new-referendum-dsx5t25mq) without another vote if the party won a majority is going down badly on the doorstep as the party’s poll ratings droop.
The policy was designed to offer an equally clear Remain counterpoint to Mr Johnson’s “get Brexit done” slogan but campaigners are finding it harder than expected to get a hearing from voters.
One candidate said: “It hasn’t been a popular policy. People are only hearing the revoke message and say we have abandoned the People’s Vote. That’s quite a common thing.…

[Pretty Boy]

Good on Channel 4 for refusing to allow Michael Gove to take part in the climate debate tonight.

'The party leaders will only debate other party leaders. We look forward to welcoming Mr Gove another time.'

Take note BBC.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78774836_10214329594570495_560470047894536192_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=-S-rQz-4sWIAQlzwmCZWN5cpFPspsVw4qGFuGQlznfyCpCgF7mDEpIYeg&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-1.fna&oh=91beb255d69363279ec75ee1e8db3102&oe=5E80AAB9


the offending lump of ice
https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/11/28/19/channel4debate2811.jpg

https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/11/28/19/icesculpturechannel42811.jpg

[Mibbes Aye]

lib dems stop campaigning on revoking article 50 should they win(i know i know)

The Liberal Democrats have stopped campaigning on their policy of revoking Article 50 amid concern about its unpopularity on the doorstep, and have switched to asking voters to deny Boris Johnson (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/boris-johnson) a majority.Activists have complained that the pledge to cancel Brexit (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dems-vote-to-bin-brexit-without-a-new-referendum-dsx5t25mq) without another vote if the party won a majority is going down badly on the doorstep as the party’s poll ratings droop.
The policy was designed to offer an equally clear Remain counterpoint to Mr Johnson’s “get Brexit done” slogan but campaigners are finding it harder than expected to get a hearing from voters.
One candidate said: “It hasn’t been a popular policy. People are only hearing the revoke message and say we have abandoned the People’s Vote. That’s quite a common thing.…







Is this what this place has become?

You dump a load of text that suits your belief, no reference to who said it, when or where, no interpretation, comment or analysis about it.

It turns this place into a feed dump :confused:

[Jonnyboy]

Anybody see the Tory Party election broadcast tonight? Rattled on about the SNP always talking about independence and spent their five minutes rattling on about the SNP. Clearly they don't do irony :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

The durty tricks being ramped up.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50595930

[Moulin Yarns]

Is this what this place has become?

You dump a load of text that suits your belief, no reference to who said it, when or where, no interpretation, comment or analysis about it.

It turns this place into a feed dump :confused:

Or you could find it in 5 seconds


https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/bbc-news-lib-dems-breakfast-layla-moran-naha-munchetty-1327026

[Mibbes Aye]

Or you could find it in 5 seconds


https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/bbc-news-lib-dems-breakfast-layla-moran-naha-munchetty-1327026

Your link doesn’t hyperlink?

[Moulin Yarns]

Your link doesn’t hyperlink?

Does too.

[Alex Trager]

Anybody see the Tory Party election broadcast tonight? Rattled on about the SNP always talking about independence and spent their five minutes rattling on about the SNP. Clearly they don't do irony :greengrin

I’ve called them out on twitter about this many many times.

As you say, irony is lost on them

[Mibbes Aye]

Does too.

I think the problem is that posts don’t hyperlink but ‘reply to posts’ do.

I still am not clear why you made that reply to me.

My point was about posters dumping content that suited their beliefs, with no comment, interpretation or analysis.

[marinello59]

Neale Hanvey has been dumped as the SNP candidate for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath for anti-semitism. That was a top target seat as well so well done to them for acting swiftly.

[marinello59]

And the Labour. candidate in Falkirk goes as well for anti-semitism.

[ronaldo7]

Neale Hanvey has been dumped as the SNP candidate for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath for anti-semitism. That was a top target seat as well so well done to them for acting swiftly.

I seem to recall having a discussion with a poster on here at the last election about the state of the selection process. It seems all parties need to up their game.

Nice to see all parties act swiftly to remove the perps.

It's a pity it has to happen at all though.

[Cataplana]

https://scontent.fman2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78774836_10214329594570495_560470047894536192_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=-S-rQz-4sWIAQlzwmCZWN5cpFPspsVw4qGFuGQlznfyCpCgF7mDEpIYeg&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-1.fna&oh=91beb255d69363279ec75ee1e8db3102&oe=5E80AAB9


the offending lump of ice
https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/11/28/19/channel4debate2811.jpg

https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/11/28/19/icesculpturechannel42811.jpg

Take it a tub of lard would have been too offensive?

[Future17]

Hearsay is rumour. I am recounting from first hand conversations. So this is more like "I've spoken to the Thumb and he's saying he's coming back in the January transfer window".

If you're talking about what someone told you first hand about their own opinion, that isn't hearsay to you.

If you're talking about what someone told you about anything other than their own opinion, that is hearsay.

Regardless of which of the above applies, it's hearsay to everyone else on here.

[Cataplana]

Possibly. However, having had one a short while ago its irresponsible in my opinion to continuously keep Scotland on an unsettled keel. It's not good for business nor is it fair on the Scots who aren't so keen for independence. I'm not against independence per say but I'm not convinced yet that independence will be good for Scotland as there's still far more questions than answers. I've not heard any great arguments for independence yet other than to break free from the Union.

Scotland would be on an even keel if England hadn't voted to leave the European Union. The latest push for independence is based on a significant change in circumstances.

Membership of the European Union was a key element in the No campaign in 2014. One of their main campaign slogans was that the only way to guarantee EU membership was to stay in the Union.

This fight is not of Scotland's making.

[One Day Soon]

I seem to recall having a discussion with a poster on here at the last election about the state of the selection process. It seems all parties need to up their game.

Nice to see all parties act swiftly to remove the perps.

It's a pity it has to happen at all though.


Completely agree with that. Should always be one strike and they're out on that stuff.

I don't remember if that poster was me or not but it's certainly one of my pet peeves. Talk of various sorts of electoral reform drives me nuts when it always takes place in the context of a complete disregard for internal selection procedures. 'Here's a much fairer way of choosing between the same diddies'.

Thankfully the extremely bad candidates are largely a minority all round. However the not-extremely-bad-but-still-fairly-inadequate category of candidates must be easily the largest slice of the pie across all parties and selection processes have a lot to answer for there.

[One Day Soon]

If you're talking about what someone told you first hand about their own opinion, that isn't hearsay to you.

If you're talking about what someone told you about anything other than their own opinion, that is hearsay.

Regardless of which of the above applies, it's hearsay to everyone else on here.


We're not really disagreeing here are we?

These conversations at first hand aren't hearsay for me because I have spoken/speak directly with these people.

I am paraphrasing SOME of the content of those conversations on here and that has to be treated as hearsay because I will not be naming individuals.

It's entirely up to everyone else as to how much weight - or truth - they wish to attach to what I am relaying.

[One Day Soon]

Scotland would be on an even keel if England hadn't voted to leave the European Union. The latest push for independence is based on a significant change in circumstances.

Membership of the European Union was a key element in the No campaign in 2014. One of their main campaign slogans was that the only way to guarantee EU membership was to stay in the Union.

This fight is not of Scotland's making.


There is the inconvenient fact that without all of the votes to leave the EU cast by Scottish and Northern Irish voters there would have been no majority for Brexit.

This Brexit is not just on English hands, there are Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh fingerprints on it too.

[lord bunberry]

Johnson senior currently on the Victoria Derbyshire show making an absolute fool of himself, showing just how out of touch his family are. Car crash stuff.

[lapsedhibee]

Johnson senior currently on the Victoria Derbyshire show making an absolute fool of himself, showing just how out of touch his family are. Car crash stuff.

Bit unfair on him for the interview to be conducted in English rather than Latin.

[Moulin Yarns]

There is the inconvenient fact that without all of the votes to leave the EU cast by Scottish and Northern Irish voters there would have been no majority for Brexit.

This Brexit is not just on English hands, there are Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh fingerprints on it too.

OK lets discount ALL the votes in NI and Scotland. The result would have been Leave 53.3% Remain 46.7% Include the votes of NI and Scotland and it was Leave 51.9% Remain 48.1%

Put it another way, there is the inconvenient fact that without all the leave votes cast in England and Wales there would have been an overwhelming majority to remain by 60.6% Remain to 39.4% Leave.

[Callum_62]

There is the inconvenient fact that without all of the votes to leave the EU cast by Scottish and Northern Irish voters there would have been no majority for Brexit.

This Brexit is not just on English hands, there are Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh fingerprints on it too.Hahahahaha. Great point mate.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[One Day Soon]

OK lets discount ALL the votes in NI and Scotland. The result would have been Leave 53.3% Remain 46.7% Include the votes of NI and Scotland and it was Leave 51.9% Remain 48.1%

Put it another way, there is the inconvenient fact that without all the leave votes cast in England and Wales there would have been an overwhelming majority to remain by 60.6% Remain to 39.4% Leave.


You make my point for me, this Brexit is not simply of England's making. Over a million Scots voted for it and without those and the N.Irish votes for Brexit, it doesn't happen.

[SHODAN]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191128/161d9ac311349a955888688f83890355.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Six Tories too many.

[One Day Soon]

Six Tories too many.

I disagree. I think it is unhealthy to not have a variety of political perspectives in our elected representatives.

From that point of view I think some Tories would be helpful as would more than one Labour. And at least one green wouldn't go amiss. Come to that I wouldn't mind also seeing a Margo-esque independent figure in among that lot either. And a wider range of the type of SNP MP would be good, a few more dissenting or troublesome backbencher types for variety. Your common or garden Alex Neil for example.

[lord bunberry]

Bit unfair on him for the interview to be conducted in English rather than Latin.
Good point.

[Pretty Boy]

Bit unfair on him for the interview to be conducted in English rather than Latin.

Iniquus maxime.

[allmodcons]

I disagree. I think it is unhealthy to not have a variety of political perspectives in our elected representatives.

From that point of view I think some Tories would be helpful as would more than one Labour. And at least one green wouldn't go amiss. Come to that I wouldn't mind also seeing a Margo-esque independent figure in among that lot either. And a wider range of the type of SNP MP would be good, a few more dissenting or troublesome backbencher types for variety. Your common or garden Alex Neil for example.

Nice to see you back on The Holy Ground ODS. I'm enjoying your 'scatter gun' approach to posting.

Whilst I agree with most of what you say (above that is, rarely on anything else :wink:), I'm afraid I can't concur with your first paragraph. The odd moderate Tory maybe but this right wing bunch of ****ers, absolutely no! My preference would be that they have zero representation in Scotland after the forthcoming election. When they are isolating ex. Thatcherite cabinet members I think it is save to assume that they are an unsavoury bunch.

With regard to your SNP 'intel', I can only assume you are being briefed by a close colleague of Derek Mackay. Replacing Nicola Sturgeon with Mackay would, in my opinion, be disastrous for the SNP and the wider Independence movement.

Also, when did Alex Salmond become a fundamentalist?

[SHODAN]

And the Labour. candidate in Falkirk goes as well for anti-semitism.

That actually gives a chance of the Tories winning Falkirk.

The Tories. Winning ****in' Falkirk.

At least my vote will matter now.

[Ozyhibby]

That actually gives a chance of the Tories winning Falkirk.

The Tories. Winning ****in' Falkirk.

At least my vote will matter now.

The Labour candidate will still be on the ballot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

Another poll showing Lab picking up a little.


Westminster voting intention:

CON: 42% (-)
LAB: 34% (+2)
LDEM: 13% (-1)
BREX: 4% (+1)
GRN: 3% (+1)

via @PanelbaseMD, 27 - 28 Nov
Chgs. w/ 22 Nov

[Moulin Yarns]

You make my point for me, this Brexit is not simply of England's making. Over a million Scots voted for it and without those and the N.Irish votes for Brexit, it doesn't happen. :confused:


OK lets discount ALL the votes in NI and Scotland. The result would have been Leave 53.3% Remain 46.7% Include the votes of NI and Scotland and it was Leave 51.9% Remain 48.1%

Put it another way, there is the inconvenient fact that without all the leave votes cast in England and Wales there would have been an overwhelming majority to remain by 60.6% Remain to 39.4% Leave.

Let's look again at the figures again. Without the votes in NI and Scotland, which is what you said, Leave wins by a greater percentage. On the other hand, if you remove the English and Welsh votes Remain wins by a far greater majority. How do you get to your opinion that


there would have been no majority for Brexit

when England and Wales voted 53.3% Leave and NI and Scotland voted 39.4% Leave I have fixed your first sentence to make sense.


There is the inconvenient fact that without all of the votes by Scottish and Northern Irish voters there would have been a greater majority for Brexit. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

I disagree. I think it is unhealthy to not have a variety of political perspectives in our elected representatives.

From that point of view I think some Tories would be helpful as would more than one Labour. And at least one green wouldn't go amiss. Come to that I wouldn't mind also seeing a Margo-esque independent figure in among that lot either. And a wider range of the type of SNP MP would be good, a few more dissenting or troublesome backbencher types for variety. Your common or garden Alex Neil for example.

Not in this election. It's the last slim, dying chance to get a 2nd eu ref. A hung parliament is still just about in play. Every non-Tory counts!

[ronaldo7]

Nice to see you back on The Holy Ground ODS. I'm enjoying your 'scatter gun' approach to posting.

Whilst I agree with most of what you say (above that is, rarely on anything else :wink:), I'm afraid I can't concur with your first paragraph. The odd moderate Tory maybe but this right wing bunch of ****ers, absolutely no! My preference would be that they have zero representation in Scotland after the forthcoming election. When they are isolating ex. Thatcherite cabinet members I think it is save to assume that they are an unsavoury bunch.

With regard to your SNP 'intel', I can only assume you are being briefed by a close colleague of Derek Mackay. Replacing Nicola Sturgeon with Mackay would, in my opinion, be disastrous for the SNP and the wider Independence movement.

Also, when did Alex Salmond become a fundamentalist?

Mackay won't be the next leader of the SNP. We won't need another leader for some time yet.

#votesnp19

[One Day Soon]

Nice to see you back on The Holy Ground ODS. I'm enjoying your 'scatter gun' approach to posting.

Whilst I agree with most of what you say (above that is, rarely on anything else :wink:), I'm afraid I can't concur with your first paragraph. The odd moderate Tory maybe but this right wing bunch of ****ers, absolutely no! My preference would be that they have zero representation in Scotland after the forthcoming election. When they are isolating ex. Thatcherite cabinet members I think it is save to assume that they are an unsavoury bunch.

With regard to your SNP 'intel', I can only assume you are being briefed by a close colleague of Derek Mackay. Replacing Nicola Sturgeon with Mackay would, in my opinion, be disastrous for the SNP and the wider Independence movement.

Also, when did Alex Salmond become a fundamentalist?


Hi AMC, thanks for the one-man welcoming committee. See the show while I'm here, it may not last...

On Tories I will make three points.

The first is that as soon as we start to take a view as to what kind of political perspective is acceptable we are going down a dark road. I don't like Francois-esque or Rees-Moggian hard-right Toryism any more than you but it does ultimately take all wings to make a broad church - even the arch-****s brigade. I am reminded of, for example, Rhodes Boyson, Jeremy Corbyn, various orange-book Lib Dems and even some SNP elected representatives...

The second is that I'm not sure you can rule out all their current Scottish candidates as being not moderate. Thirdly, there is a school of thought that says if Johnson wins - which I think he will - it is better for him to have a reasonably large majority because then two things will happen. One is that Labour will have to start to do some actual rational thinking again and the other is that if Johnson's ERG back benchers are diluted in influence by an influx of non-mentalists he is sufficiently disloyal and ruthless to marginalise them in respect of how hard Brexit is in the same way that he cut the Ulster Unionists adrift. I recognise the 'IFs' are doing quite a lot of work in that third point...

On the SNP I can, as they say, neither confirm nor deny my sources. I can tell you that I have more than a handful of them, though not quite as many as two handfuls. I mentioned Derek Mackay simply because he seems to me to be one of the more likely successors. I don't expect the SNP to decide to replace Sturgeon with someone else. I expect the sequencing to be that the SNP find themselves looking for a new leader somewhere around the first quarter of next year whether they like it or not. I could be wrong of course and time will most certainly tell.

I think Salmond started his ongoing journey of fundamentalism sometime in the 48 hours after he (substantially involuntarily in my opinion) resigned.

As for 'scatter gun', all I can say is that I'm 55, cantankerous and currently bearing ill-will to all political parties and most front-rank politicians so in the words of De Niro in the excellent 'The Irishman, 'this is how it is'.

[One Day Soon]

That actually gives a chance of the Tories winning Falkirk.

The Tories. Winning ****in' Falkirk.

At least my vote will matter now.

That's so ludicrously mental that I want it to happen.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Mackay won't be the next leader of the SNP. We won't need another leader for some time yet.

#votesnp19

I'm really intrigued by how Alyn Smith could perform should he be successful in winning Stirling.
Admittedly i don't know an awful lot about him but hes been a very decent performer in the European parliament and has gained a lot of respect from fellow Euro parliamentarians. He speaks with an assured authority and could be one to watch in the years to come.

[danhibees1875]

:confused:



Let's look again at the figures again. Without the votes in NI and Scotland, which is what you said, Leave wins by a greater percentage. On the other hand, if you remove the English and Welsh votes Remain wins by a far greater majority. How do you get to your opinion that



when England and Wales voted 53.3% Leave and NI and Scotland voted 39.4% Leave I have fixed your first sentence to make sense.

:greengrin

I think ODS' point, and it's a stretchy one but I think it's valid, is that if every leave voter in Scotland had voted remain then the result would have been remain across the UK.

The wider implication being that it's not as clear cut "being forced out against our will" as it's often made out to be - Scotland alone could have dictated we stay in the EU. It/we just didn't want to.

[Cataplana]

There is the inconvenient fact that without all of the votes to leave the EU cast by Scottish and Northern Irish voters there would have been no majority for Brexit.

This Brexit is not just on English hands, there are Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh fingerprints on it too.

That is an old argument.

From a Scots perspective, the people of Scotland voted to remain in the EU twice.

[One Day Soon]

:confused:



Let's look again at the figures again. Without the votes in NI and Scotland, which is what you said, Leave wins by a greater percentage. On the other hand, if you remove the English and Welsh votes Remain wins by a far greater majority. How do you get to your opinion that



when England and Wales voted 53.3% Leave and NI and Scotland voted 39.4% Leave I have fixed your first sentence to make sense.

:greengrin


No, this is what I actually posted: There is the inconvenient fact that without all of the votes to leave the EU cast by Scottish and Northern Irish voters there would have been no majority for Brexit.

Uncomfortable though it may be, over one million Scots voted for Brexit. Cataplana claimed that "Scotland would be on an even keel if England hadn't voted to leave the European Union."

As the numbers show, it wasn't just England that voted to leave. In this UK-wide vote for Brexit, it also took a combination of Scottish and Northern Irish/Welsh votes to get Brexit over the line otherwise it would have failed, so there are Scottish fingerprints all over Brexit too.

Similarly in the 2014 Indyref. If it wasn't for the No votes in the four local authority Yes stronghold areas (Dundee included) - plus those in the almost 50/50 split areas of Inverclyde and North Ayrshire - then No would not have won. There are therefore also 'Yes area' fingerprints all over Scotland's No vote.

[One Day Soon]

That is an old argument.

From a Scots perspective, the people of Scotland voted to remain in the EU twice.


It's a factual argument and it's related to the only actual referendum that took place on that specific issue.

[JeMeSouviens]

I think ODS' point, and it's a stretchy one but I think it's valid, is that if every leave voter in Scotland had voted remain then the result would have been remain across the UK.

The wider implication being that it's not as clear cut "being forced out against our will" as it's often made out to be - Scotland alone could have dictated we stay in the EU. It/we just didn't want to.

Leave would have won without a single leave voter in Scotland. It's only valid if they all switched sides and voted Remain instead.

I think the "Scotland voted Remain" argument for indyref2 is somewhat specious anyway, given that we'd explicitly voted less than 2 years earlier to subject ourselves to UK decision making, but this is even worse!

If Scotland wants to vote for an indyref and then vote for indy it can do so without reference or justification. The only thing that should take us out of the UK is a majority. The only thing that should keep us in the UK is a majority.

[Moulin Yarns]

No, this is what I actually posted: There is the inconvenient fact that without all of the votes to leave the EU cast by Scottish and Northern Irish voters there would have been no majority for Brexit.

Uncomfortable though it may be, over one million Scots voted for Brexit. Cataplana claimed that "Scotland would be on an even keel if England hadn't voted to leave the European Union."

As the numbers show, it wasn't just England that voted to leave. In this UK-wide vote for Brexit, it also took a combination of Scottish and Northern Irish/Welsh votes to get Brexit over the line otherwise it would have failed, so there are Scottish fingerprints all over Brexit too.

Similarly in the 2014 Indyref. If it wasn't for the No votes in the four local authority Yes stronghold areas (Dundee included) - plus those in the almost 50/50 split areas of Inverclyde and North Ayrshire - then No would not have won. There are therefore also 'Yes area' fingerprints all over Scotland's No vote.

I know that's what you said, BUT, you can't be selective, which is why I recalculated your argument omitting ALL votes.

JMS makes the point very well,
Leave would have won without a single leave voter in Scotland

[SHODAN]

I'm really intrigued by how Alyn Smith could perform should he be successful in winning Stirling.
Admittedly i don't know an awful lot about him but hes been a very decent performer in the European parliament and has gained a lot of respect from fellow Euro parliamentarians. He speaks with an assured authority and could be one to watch in the years to come.

I like him, but the SNP leader should always be an MSP.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m happy with NS and see no good reason to replace her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

The Thatcher Government ensured the manufacturing industry was decimated and now Boris Johnson pledges to help British Industry by making it easier to 'Buy British'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50601517
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50601517)

Well that's OK then, because there will be nothing to buy.

[Cataplana]

It's a factual argument and it's related to the only actual referendum that took place on that specific issue.

If you say so.

[Moulin Yarns]

Sorry if already discussed, 5 hours ago. The BBC grow a pair.



Just in...

BBC sources say they have refused the Conservatives' offer to put the prime minister on Andrew Marr this Sunday until he agrees a date for the Andrew Neil interview.

[Cataplana]

Sorry if already discussed, 5 hours ago. The BBC grow a pair.



Just in...

BBC sources say they have refused the Conservatives' offer to put the prime minister on Andrew Marr this Sunday until he agrees a date for the Andrew Neil interview.

That will play well in the Tory heartlands of North West England, and the Midlands. Boris is wearing Tommy Robinson's clothes after all.

[Hibernia&Alba]

That will play well in the Tory heartlands of North West England, and the Midlands. Boris is wearing Tommy Robinson's clothes after all.

Eh? The north-west and west midlands are heavily Labour. The south of England is dominated by the Tories.

[Cataplana]

Eh? The north-west and west midlands are heavily Labour. The south of England is dominated by the Tories.

They were heavily Labour, I'm seeing too many people coming on and saying they will vote Boris to "get what we voted for at the referendum."

[Hibernia&Alba]

They were heavily Labour, I'm seeing too many people coming on and saying they will vote Boris to "get what we voted for at the referendum."
It will be interesting to see how many in such areas fall into Farage's trap and help the Tories get re-elected.

[Bostonhibby]

It will be interesting to see how many in such areas fall into Farage's trap and help the Tories get re-elected.It'll happen. Peterborough near me is worth watching. Labour seat but listening to talk around the city there's a fair few labour voters backing Boris, or anyone who favours Brexit.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

It will be interesting to see how many in such areas fall into Farage's trap and help the Tories get re-elected.


It'll happen. Peterborough near me is worth watching. Labour seat but listening to talk around the city there's a fair few labour voters backing Boris, or anyone who favours Brexit.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Everyday the news visits a workplace, or social club and the sheep bleat the same mantra. We voted for something, we didn't get it, and we are prepared to switch allegiance to see that we do get it.

[G B Young]

Electoral campaigning suspended for the evening in wake of London Bridge attack.

[Glory Lurker]

That's so ludicrously mental that I want it to happen.

You wanted it to happen anyway ;-)

Re Brexit: if it's not valid to say Scotland is getting taken out against its will because it was a UK-wide vote, then our contributions to either side don't stand to be analysed separately.

And....if the yes vote in no areas in 2014 hadn't been what it was, no would have won by more and the issue would have been put to bed; so no's failure to end the debate was sown in their many victories? See what I did there? :-)

[One Day Soon]

I see Sturgeon is at it again with the 'Voting SNP will lock Boris Johnson out of No.10' line. How does that work exactly?

[Moulin Yarns]

I see Sturgeon is at it again with the 'Voting SNP will lock Boris Johnson out of No.10' line. How does that work exactly?

It reduces the chance of a tory in Scotland. That seems pretty obvious really.

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done Nicola, does our country proud once again :agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

well done Nicola, does our country proud once again :agree:

First Minister @NicolaSturgeon asked if she would use nuclear weapons: "No, absolutely and emphatically not, because it would lead to the deaths of possibly tens of millions of people and would wipe out swathes of our civilisation. So no, under no circumstances..." #BBCDebate https://t.co/y5gifHvz6y

[stoneyburn hibs]

I see Sturgeon is at it again with the 'Voting SNP will lock Boris Johnson out of No.10' line. How does that work exactly?

Pretty obvious really, not a bad statement from the SNP leader for years to come.

[ronaldo7]

well done Nicola, does our country proud once again :agree:

Skooshed it again. 👍

[ronaldo7]

I'm really intrigued by how Alyn Smith could perform should he be successful in winning Stirling.
Admittedly i don't know an awful lot about him but hes been a very decent performer in the European parliament and has gained a lot of respect from fellow Euro parliamentarians. He speaks with an assured authority and could be one to watch in the years to come.

I can see him returning to Brussels when we win the next indyref.

The light will still be on, and we'll be welcomed with open arms.

[cabbageandribs1875]

First Minister @NicolaSturgeon asked if she would use nuclear weapons: "No, absolutely and emphatically not, because it would lead to the deaths of possibly tens of millions of people and would wipe out swathes of our civilisation. So no, under no circumstances..." #BBCDebate https://t.co/y5gifHvz6y


Skooshed it again. 👍



a penny for his thoughts.......


https://scontent.fman2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73504914_2652745671448914_8737055368124825600_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=Wu471TxSfQEAQlO5mhWwGrJaqB-EQBzq49qQJKAOha_gBMdkL0SxO7kqA&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-2.fna&oh=eb6b1863355ed596038e517df1b85aba&oe=5E498B23

[NAE NOOKIE]

a penny for his thoughts.......


https://scontent.fman2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73504914_2652745671448914_8737055368124825600_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=Wu471TxSfQEAQlO5mhWwGrJaqB-EQBzq49qQJKAOha_gBMdkL0SxO7kqA&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-2.fna&oh=eb6b1863355ed596038e517df1b85aba&oe=5E498B23

That was funny .. the gob***** who hadn't shut up all night made a snide comment at Sturgeon as the show ended and her retort left him stuck for a reply .. absolutely pissed on his chips, no wonder she was laughing :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

That was funny .. the gob***** who hadn't shut up all night made a snide comment at Sturgeon as the show ended and her retort left him stuck for a reply .. absolutely pissed on his chips, no wonder she was laughing :greengrin

What was said?

[lord bunberry]

I'm really intrigued by how Alyn Smith could perform should he be successful in winning Stirling.
Admittedly i don't know an awful lot about him but hes been a very decent performer in the European parliament and has gained a lot of respect from fellow Euro parliamentarians. He speaks with an assured authority and could be one to watch in the years to come.
He is highly unlikely to ever be considered as a leader of the SNP. I quite like him, but he’s not universally liked amongst the nationalist community mainly due to his partner who has made himself quite a divisive character.

[Hibernia&Alba]

First Minister @NicolaSturgeon asked if she would use nuclear weapons: "No, absolutely and emphatically not, because it would lead to the deaths of possibly tens of millions of people and would wipe out swathes of our civilisation. So no, under no circumstances..." #BBCDebate https://t.co/y5gifHvz6y

In contrast to that other so called progressive (walloper) Swinson. Well said Sturgeon - scrap nuclear weapons.

[lord bunberry]

In contrast to that other so called progressive (walloper) Swinson. Well said Sturgeon - scrap nuclear weapons.
And although he wasn’t there Corbyn is equally walloperish with his support for trident and his insistence that he’d use nuclear weapons if necessary. Let’s be under no illusion of what that means, if civilisation is to come to an end we will be major players in contributing to that, as long as it means we retain our seat in the security council. Spending £200 billion while children live in poverty is utterly abhorrent.

[Colr]

Eh? The north-west and west midlands are heavily Labour. The south of England is dominated by the Tories.

Except London.

Really its urban areas that vote on the left as we understand the importance of acting collectively IMO.

[G B Young]

Surprised to hear the debate actually went ahead. Presumably completely overshadowed by events in London.

[Hibrandenburg]

What was said?

Richard Tice was gobbing off at Sturgeon about her lying about the Tories putting the NHS on the negotiating table and Sturgeon said he'd know about lies because he had "form" on the subject. It was more how she said it that made it comically scathing.

[Future17]

We're not really disagreeing here are we?

These conversations at first hand aren't hearsay for me because I have spoken/speak directly with these people.

I am paraphrasing SOME of the content of those conversations on here and that has to be treated as hearsay because I will not be naming individuals.

It's entirely up to everyone else as to how much weight - or truth - they wish to attach to what I am relaying.

I'm not seeking to argue your main point, just your definition of hearsay. :greengrin

Anything which someone told you about anything other than their own opinion (unless you can otherwise prove it to be true) is hearsay.

[Cataplana]

Except London.

Really its urban areas that vote on the left as we understand the importance of acting collectively IMO.

That's an interesting observation.

In less densley populated areas they don't get the same advantages of shared resources such as public transport. So, it makes less sense to pool their income into a shared fund?

[Hibernia&Alba]

And although he wasn’t there Corbyn is equally walloperish with his support for trident and his insistence that he’d use nuclear weapons if necessary. Let’s be under no illusion of what that means, if civilisation is to come to an end we will be major players in contributing to that, as long as it means we retain our seat in the security council. Spending £200 billion while children live in poverty is utterly abhorrent.

:agree:

[CloudSquall]

On Trident for me it probably had a use in the Cold War era but now it is obsolete, in this day and age anyone that wants to attack us will hire a team of expert hackers who'll carry out a cyber attack instead.


On Alyn Smith as a potential SNP leader, I like him but he's marmite, if people thought Salmond was smug they'll be tipped over the edge by Smith's way to speak, and as mentioned his partner is making a name for himself for all the wrong reasons on Twitter, there seems to be a growing "woke" community within the SNP that he is a part of that refers to people like Joanna Cherry as "TERFS"* because they won't go balls to the walls regarding Trans rights in order to protect women from potentially dangerous situations.



*I didn't have a clue what TERF means either.


Much of the SNP talent is now at Westminster which is where they may need to look to for a new leader (I can't see Sturgeon leaving before the next referendum though).

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

balls to the walls

What does that mean? I've saw you use it on here on numerous occasions but, never read or heard anyone else use it.

[Pretty Boy]

What does that mean? I've saw you use it on here on numerous occasions but, never read or heard anyone else use it.

It's an aviation term that means full throttle.

[SHODAN]

What was said?

He told her to stop lying about Brexit and she made a retort something along the lines of "Well you've got form for that."

[Mr Grieves]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 39% (-2)
LAB: 33% (+5)
LDEM: 13% (-5)
GRN: 5% (-)
BREX: 4% (+1)

It's like 2017 all over again.

[Future17]

Sorry if already discussed, 5 hours ago. The BBC grow a pair.



Just in...

BBC sources say they have refused the Conservatives' offer to put the prime minister on Andrew Marr this Sunday until he agrees a date for the Andrew Neil interview.

The BBC seem to have changed their position again. Say what you like about them, but the Tories appear to have played this perfectly.

[SHODAN]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 39% (-2)
LAB: 33% (+5)
LDEM: 13% (-5)
GRN: 5% (-)
BREX: 4% (+1)

It's like 2017 all over again.

Maybe Boris being a complete coward isn't coming over well, just like the last time.

[G B Young]

The BBC seem to have changed their position again. Say what you like about them, but the Tories appear to have played this perfectly.

They've changed their position in the wake of the London attack. Understandably they feel it's in the public interest to have the PM on a show which is likely to focus heavily on the terrorism threat. The Tories couldn't have factored that into their strategy.

[CloudSquall]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 39% (-2)
LAB: 33% (+5)
LDEM: 13% (-5)
GRN: 5% (-)
BREX: 4% (+1)

It's like 2017 all over again.


Game over for Swinson.

[SHODAN]

Game over for Swinson.

And after all the posturing about the LD points coming from the Tories, they've actually gone over to Labour. Shock.

[G B Young]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 39% (-2)
LAB: 33% (+5)
LDEM: 13% (-5)
GRN: 5% (-)
BREX: 4% (+1)

It's like 2017 all over again.

This poll was compiled before the London attack mind you, so it might be fair to assume voters are likely to see the Tories as tougher on security/law and order than perceived terrorist sympathiser Corbyn.

[Cataplana]

This poll was compiled before the London attack mind you, so it might be fair to assume voters are likely to see the Tories as tougher on security/law and order than perceived terrorist sympathiser Corbyn.

And that would be a travesty, given the attacks have happened on the Conservatives watch.

[lapsedhibee]

it might be fair to assume voters are likely to see the Tories as tougher on security/law and order than perceived terrorist sympathiser Corbyn.

I'd certainly be happy to put my faith on security matters in someone who's afraid of being interviewed.

[CallumLaidlaw]

This poll was compiled before the London attack mind you, so it might be fair to assume voters are likely to see the Tories as tougher on security/law and order than perceived terrorist sympathiser Corbyn.

Or they may read some of the conspiracy theories doing the rounds....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

This poll was compiled before the London attack mind you, so it might be fair to assume voters are likely to see the Tories as tougher on security/law and order than perceived terrorist sympathiser Corbyn.

I think it’s fair to ask the Conservatives why a man who was convicted of planning to blow up the London Stick Exchange and was released on license was able to travel into the centre of London while he was supposed to be being monitored.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[G B Young]

And that would be a travesty, given the attacks have happened on the Conservatives watch.

https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1200815822853328898

[Mr Grieves]

This poll was compiled before the London attack mind you, so it might be fair to assume voters are likely to see the Tories as tougher on security/law and order than perceived terrorist sympathiser Corbyn.

Perhaps. Or the the number of police officers the tories have cut and the fact it happened on their watch could work against them. Did the 2017 terror attacks have an impact on that general election result?

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1200815822853328898

Tories have been in power since 2010. They were in power when he was first arrested and in power when he was released. This is 100% on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

I think it’s fair to ask the Conservatives why a man who was convicted of planning to blow up the London Stick Exchange and was released on license was able to travel into the centre of London while he was supposed to be being monitored.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am no more a Conservative than you are, but I think those questions sit with the courts in terms of sentencing, and joint arrangements between police and social work as to the monitoring. And a question about the role of security services I guess.

[Ozyhibby]

I am no more a Conservative than you are, but I think those questions sit with the courts in terms of sentencing, and joint arrangements between police and social work as to the monitoring. And a question about the role of security services I guess.

They work within a framework set by parliament though.
I’m very supportive of electronic tags and think they should be used more than custodial sentences but this guy should never have been released. Anyone who plans a mass murder like he did should be looking at a lot longer prison sentence.
I wonder if budget cuts affected the level of monitoring this guy was under?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

just managed to catch some security dude getting interviewed on SKY this morning and he was absolutely spot-on...WHY do terrorists get same sentences as say a housebreaker, robbery etc, i'm sure they said the judge wanted to hand down a longer sentence to the terrorist guy

[Ozyhibby]

just managed to catch some security dude getting interviewed on SKY this morning and he was absolutely spot-on...WHY do terrorists get same sentences as say a housebreaker, robbery etc

He didn’t. He got an indeterminate sentence but the Tories done away with them and his sentence changed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bristolhibby]

This poll was compiled before the London attack mind you, so it might be fair to assume voters are likely to see the Tories as tougher on security/law and order than perceived terrorist sympathiser Corbyn.

Police numbers: slashed by 20000

Probation service: cut, being privatised, in chaos

Prison service: reeling from cuts, unable to cope, violence at record levels

Security cooperation: threatened by Brexit policy

But tell us again how it’s the Tories who will keep us safe.

If I were Labour, this will be my message for the next week. Hang them out for their record.

J

[Mr Grieves]

https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1200815822853328898

Is she telling the truth?

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1200808767820046337?s=20

[cabbageandribs1875]

He didn’t. He got an indeterminate sentence but the Tories done away with them and his sentence changed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i'l take your word for it then :) i've not had a chance to hear/read much at all about events


but i do know guy that took the knife sneakily accidently chucked away a bag of white powdery stuff :greengrin could have been baking soda for his meal at night right enough

[Pete]

Is she telling the truth?

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1200808767820046337?s=20

Again, no shortage of lies...everything twisted to make Corbyn sound bad.


Anyway, enough about GB Young, what about these yories caught telling fibs again. 😉

[Ozyhibby]

Is she telling the truth?

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1200808767820046337?s=20

No she is not. He could have been held indefinitely under the law Labour introduced and that’s what he was sentenced under but the Tories changed the law.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[G B Young]

Tories have been in power since 2010. They were in power when he was first arrested and in power when he was released. This is 100% on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not according to Patel:

Patel responds to Cooper over Khan's releaseThe Home Secretary tweets...

Home Secretary Priti Patel has responded to Labour's Yvette Cooper on Twitter after Ms Cooper questioned how Usman Khan could have been released after he was "thought to be so dangerous" he was given a sentence of Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP).
In one of a string of tweets, Ms Copper questioned how it could be "allowed to happen" that after receiving the IPP sentence "[Khan] was released six years later without Parole Board assessment".
Ms Patel responded: "Because legislation brought in by your government in 2008 meant that dangerous terrorists had to automatically be released after half of their jail term.
"Conservatives changed the law in 2012 to end your automatic release policy but Khan was convicted before this."

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191130/52b05f80c69c7edf19f3692be5f07e88.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Not according to Patel:

Patel responds to Cooper over Khan's releaseThe Home Secretary tweets...

Home Secretary Priti Patel has responded to Labour's Yvette Cooper on Twitter after Ms Cooper questioned how Usman Khan could have been released after he was "thought to be so dangerous" he was given a sentence of Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP).
In one of a string of tweets, Ms Copper questioned how it could be "allowed to happen" that after receiving the IPP sentence "[Khan] was released six years later without Parole Board assessment".
Ms Patel responded: "Because legislation brought in by your government in 2008 meant that dangerous terrorists had to automatically be released after half of their jail term.
"Conservatives changed the law in 2012 to end your automatic release policy but Khan was convicted before this."



If he was sentenced to an IPP then how was he released at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1200815822853328898

But he was under surveillance.

[murray26]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191130/52b05f80c69c7edf19f3692be5f07e88.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is encouraging that horrible bigoted liar Johnson doesn’t deserve to win this election 🙏

[cabbageandribs1875]

That was funny .. the gob***** who hadn't shut up all night made a snide comment at Sturgeon as the show ended and her retort left him stuck for a reply .. absolutely pissed on his chips, no wonder she was laughing :greengrin



and a penny for HER thoughts, daggers spring to mind.....


https://scontent.fman2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79137279_1281825122004964_300425751105110016_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=IWaHhApSQWAAQlBq-Sx3mBUtoLwD1y2EE-3k0MFRBnz0VBr7A8jZLIYlw&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-1.fna&oh=4d92461530408ea83f6e075b0cefc24d&oe=5E863151

[Jack Hackett]

I'm beginning to be hopeful that the tory campaign of disinformation and manipulation of the MSM is collapsing into a heap of rubble. There appears to be a limit to what even the dimmest of their support will swallow

[Ozyhibby]

I'm beginning to be hopeful that the tory campaign of disinformation and manipulation of the MSM is collapsing into a heap of rubble. There appears to be a limit to what even the dimmest of their support will swallow

Johnson has his pet interviewer tomorrow morning so he will get a wee boost from that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

He is highly unlikely to ever be considered as a leader of the SNP. I quite like him, but he’s not universally liked amongst the nationalist community mainly due to his partner who has made himself quite a divisive character.His partner is an absolute bellend. Theres a good few of them in alyn Smith's stirling clique that are divisive.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

On Trident for me it probably had a use in the Cold War era but now it is obsolete, in this day and age anyone that wants to attack us will hire a team of expert hackers who'll carry out a cyber attack instead.


On Alyn Smith as a potential SNP leader, I like him but he's marmite, if people thought Salmond was smug they'll be tipped over the edge by Smith's way to speak, and as mentioned his partner is making a name for himself for all the wrong reasons on Twitter, there seems to be a growing "woke" community within the SNP that he is a part of that refers to people like Joanna Cherry as "TERFS"* because they won't go balls to the walls regarding Trans rights in order to protect women from potentially dangerous situations.



*I didn't have a clue what TERF means either.


Much of the SNP talent is now at Westminster which is where they may need to look to for a new leader (I can't see Sturgeon leaving before the next referendum though).The wokus dei :agree:

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Future17]

They've changed their position in the wake of the London attack. Understandably they feel it's in the public interest to have the PM on a show which is likely to focus heavily on the terrorism threat. The Tories couldn't have factored that into their strategy.

But they probably factored in that the BBC was in a weaker negotiating position than they were.

[weecounty hibby]

What a ****ing performance from the PM. I wouldn't led him lead a bowling club committee never mind a country. Anyone who votes for him and his party need their head examined. Self entitled, arrogant and clearly believes that the working class are there to serve. Pathetic. I'm no lover of Corbyn or indeed Labour in general but England need to vote for them and in Scotland we need to vote SNP to get this lot out of government.

[stokesmessiah]

What a ****ing performance from the PM. I wouldn't led him lead a bowling club committee never mind a country. Anyone who votes for him and his party need their head examined. Self entitled, arrogant and clearly believes that the working class are there to serve. Pathetic. I'm no lover of Corbyn or indeed Labour in general but England need to vote for them and in Scotland we need to vote SNP to get this lot out of government.



What’s he on?

Edit: found it

[marinello59]

What a ****ing performance from the PM. I wouldn't led him lead a bowling club committee never mind a country. Anyone who votes for him and his party need their head examined. Self entitled, arrogant and clearly believes that the working class are there to serve. Pathetic. I'm no lover of Corbyn or indeed Labour in general but England need to vote for them and in Scotland we need to vote SNP to get this lot out of government.

I could hardly hear what he was saying because of all the swearing I was doing. It started with an inability to stop myself from blurting out ****** as soon as he appeared on anything. Now it’s progressed to a compulsive use of every derogatory term I can think of, the more foul mouthed the better.
Do I need help?

[stokesmessiah]

Feel sorry for the victims families, imagine losing a loved one and then seeing the attack being used as a political football.

[weecounty hibby]

I could hardly hear what he was saying because of all the swearing I was doing. It started with an inability to stop myself from blurting out ****** as soon as he appeared on anything. Now it’s progressed to a compulsive use of every derogatory term I can think of, the more foul mouthed the better.
Do I need help?
No you definitely don't, anyone who didn't react that way to him are the ones who need help. I am actually beyond angry with that. Scotland needs to wake up but so does England and Wales. Having that embarrassment as the PM makes everyone in the UK a laughing stock

[Bostonhibby]

What a ****ing performance from the PM. I wouldn't led him lead a bowling club committee never mind a country. Anyone who votes for him and his party need their head examined. Self entitled, arrogant and clearly believes that the working class are there to serve. Pathetic. I'm no lover of Corbyn or indeed Labour in general but England need to vote for them and in Scotland we need to vote SNP to get this lot out of government.Jeez, can't believe what I've just watched, he's a guy who just answers in the moment with the first thing that comes into his head whatever the consequences.

Ducking questions, deflecting back to the safety net of "getting brexit done" at one point it seemed like he was saying that he couldn't progress on a plan for social care independently of brexit?

Really was a bit like watching a Donald Trump figure, only with much bigger words.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[murray26]

I really will lose faith if this man gets elected.. he’s a manipulative liar and a danger to many people.. I really hope the decent people in England open their eyes to this man.

[stokesmessiah]

He was really losing his cool a bit!?

[Cataplana]

I really will lose faith if this man gets elected.. he’s a manipulative liar and a danger to many people.. I really hope the decent people in England open their eyes to this man.

It's the 80s all over. The more the Tories crapped on them, the more they lapped it up.

There is something deeply perverse about English self loathing. What other race says "sorry" after you stamp on their foot?

[Bostonhibby]

Bozoenomics

This is his formula for police numbers, hospitals and libraries.

On sides of buses near you soon.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191201/b721bcdc7372367db5ada8d107986c43.jpg

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

He's a habitual liar. He's so used to being dishonest that any subject that either requires a bit sincerity or honesty or simple questions that require no trickery completely throw him.

That was car crash stuff, he's a total buffoon and a ****ing idiot into the bargain. An idiot with an expensive education and proficiency in Latin granted but still an idiot.

[Cataplana]

He's a habitual liar. He's so used to being dishonest that any subject that either requires a bit sincerity or honesty or simple questions that require no trickery completely throw him.

That was car crash stuff, he's a total buffoon and a ****ing idiot into the bargain. An idiot with an expensive education and proficiency in Latin granted but still an idiot.

It was absolutely disgusting.

[lapsedhibee]

What the **** you all on about?

You're completely misunderstanding the PM.

Give him a break.

He can't possibly be a bigot, for example, because his grandfather knew the Quran off by heart.

[lapsedhibee]

Matt Hancock
✔ @MattHancock


Boris brilliant under pressure on @AndrewMarr9 - incredibly clear despite absurd level of interruption

Get Brexit done and move the country forward#BackBoris

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

[Cataplana]

Matt Hancock
✔ @MattHancock


Boris brilliant under pressure on @AndrewMarr9 - incredibly clear despite absurd level of interruption

Get Brexit done and move the country forward#BackBoris

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

Order of the Brown Nose nominee .

[Mibbes Aye]

I could hardly hear what he was saying because of all the swearing I was doing. It started with an inability to stop myself from blurting out ****** as soon as he appeared on anything. Now it’s progressed to a compulsive use of every derogatory term I can think of, the more foul mouthed the better.
Do I need help?

You could consider foreign language lessons, thus extending your volume and range of swear words?

[Hibbyradge]

You could consider foreign language lessons, thus extending your volume and range of swear words?

:agree:

Just as long as those language lessons are not European.

[Cataplana]

You could consider foreign language lessons, thus extending your volume and range of swear words?

You could learn 5000 new swear words, if you include the fact that you won't discard the 4000 you already use.

[weecounty hibby]

You could consider foreign language lessons, thus extending your volume and range of swear words?

Perhaps some Latin swear words. That seems to really impress some folk when you can speak Latin

[Moulin Yarns]

I could hardly hear what he was saying because of all the swearing I was doing. It started with an inability to stop myself from blurting out ****** as soon as he appeared on anything. Now it’s progressed to a compulsive use of every derogatory term I can think of, the more foul mouthed the better.
Do I need help?

I can offer to help. We can share the swearing 🤬

[Moulin Yarns]

You could consider foreign language lessons, thus extending your volume and range of swear words?

Boris Johnson is a cu. *Portuguese *

[Hibrandenburg]

He's a habitual liar. He's so used to being dishonest that any subject that either requires a bit sincerity or honesty or simple questions that require no trickery completely throw him.

That was car crash stuff, he's a total buffoon and a ****ing idiot into the bargain. An idiot with an expensive education and proficiency in Latin granted but still an idiot.

Educated well beyond his intelligence.

[NAE NOOKIE]

You could learn 5000 new swear words, if you include the fact that you won't discard the 4000 you already use.

I got it mate, very good :top marks

[NAE NOOKIE]

Educated well beyond his intelligence.

Love this ... sums him up perfectly :aok:

[NAE NOOKIE]

It's the 80s all over. The more the Tories crapped on them, the more they lapped it up.

There is something deeply perverse about English self loathing. What other race says "sorry" after you stamp on their foot?

This is just so true, though to be fair I wouldn't simply categorise that as a purely English trait. Just look at the global economic crash .. caused by bankers and stock market gamblers, especially in the USA, but look who has risen to power on promises to sort the bankers and money movers, the very people who have gained their wealth and power hobnobbing with bankers, hedge fund managers and stock market gamblers.

Its the same with the Tories. 10 years in government and still blaming Labour for anything and everything and looking to get elected on promises to sort the mess they have presided over ... Its like me breaking your leg in an unprovoked attack and expecting you to be grateful because I've phoned an ambulance.

As for Johnson's 'performance' on Andrew Marr .... Its simply mind blowing that anybody could be impressed by that, the man is an absolute clown who thinks that he can avoid any question with an avalanche of verbal diarrhoea ... I know politicians are all prone to that, but Johnson has taken it to a whole new level.

[Scorrie]

Sadly the people who will vote for Johnson are not bothered by what he says or whether it’s true. They’re voting for a pro brexit persona and that’s all they want.

[Cataplana]

Sadly the people who will vote for Johnson are not bothered by what he says or whether it’s true. They’re voting for a pro brexit persona and that’s all they want.

They take a perverse pleasure in being in tow with a cad.

I can see why Corbyn would want to lose though. These people will never be satisfied, as leaving the EU is not the solution to their problems.

[Moulin Yarns]

WOW

That’s yer problem right there. Labour backing the Tories 🤬 https://t.co/xqIAGAHwWc

[Ozyhibby]

WOW

That’s yer problem right there. Labour backing the Tories [emoji2959] https://t.co/xqIAGAHwWc

Labour and the Tories have pretty much stood down in my constituency. The Better Together parties have all but merged.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

WOW

That’s yer problem right there. Labour backing the Tories 🤬 https://t.co/xqIAGAHwWc

A Tory leaflet highlighting a former Labour man? That’s not really Labour backing the Tories is it?

[Future17]

A Tory leaflet highlighting a former Labour man? That’s not really Labour backing the Tories is it?

Just more misleading campaigning.

[murray26]

Should this misleading garbage really be allowed.. is there no level to what they tory’s won’t stoop.. horrible people..

[Mibbes Aye]

Perhaps some Latin swear words. That seems to really impress some folk when you can speak Latin

Quod verum tutum.

[Mibbes Aye]

:agree:

Just as long as those language lessons are not European.

M59 should consider a deal learning Canadian swear words, but with no control over when and how he is allowed to use them.

[Moulin Yarns]

A Tory leaflet highlighting a former Labour man? That’s not really Labour backing the Tories is it?

Apologies. I saw the RED leaflet and kind of assumed that it was from Labour. I think it adds to my previous posts about the fact that the tories are using underhand tactics.

[JimBHibees]

and a penny for HER thoughts, daggers spring to mind.....


https://scontent.fman2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79137279_1281825122004964_300425751105110016_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=IWaHhApSQWAAQlBq-Sx3mBUtoLwD1y2EE-3k0MFRBnz0VBr7A8jZLIYlw&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-1.fna&oh=4d92461530408ea83f6e075b0cefc24d&oe=5E863151

Who is that guy?

[JimBHibees]

Johnson has his pet interviewer tomorrow morning so he will get a wee boost from that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who is that?

[Hibrandenburg]

Just watched the Marr interview with Johnson. It reminded me of the analogy of playing chess with a pigeon and debating with idiots.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Who is that guy?


richard tice, brexit party chairman, farage couldn't make it

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78127272_10158906174443238_710081089007255552_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=85N4bss-9QYAQm3SgZhCRhh3IFxAiLPpW3GUT2O79KeGF7kymAVKbNyYw&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-2.fna&oh=d3e9bc660d093f7210a8932e9a637c6c&oe=5E417B50

:)

[Bristolhibby]

Perhaps some Latin swear words. That seems to really impress some folk when you can speak Latin

Sex Erectus Pini - Six tall pines. Is about all the Latin I can remember from school.

J

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191202/2f7e017922447d63579a0c6001857ae0.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

and a penny for HER thoughts, daggers spring to mind.....


https://scontent.fman2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79137279_1281825122004964_300425751105110016_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=IWaHhApSQWAAQlBq-Sx3mBUtoLwD1y2EE-3k0MFRBnz0VBr7A8jZLIYlw&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-1.fna&oh=4d92461530408ea83f6e075b0cefc24d&oe=5E863151

I've had that look mair times than I can remember: "you think yer aff doon the pub, ye ****? Think again". :greengrin

[ballengeich]

Apologies. I saw the RED leaflet and kind of assumed that it was from Labour. I think it adds to my previous posts about the fact that the tories are using underhand tactics.

I'm not sure about underhand, but Stephen Kerr seems to have abandoned any attempt to make a positive case for himself or his party in Stirling. His campaign now seems to be purely about stop the SNP.

[CloudSquall]

I'm not sure about underhand, but Stephen Kerr seems to have abandoned any attempt to make a positive case for himself or his party in Stirling. His campaign now seems to be purely about stop the SNP.

You could replace Stephen Kerr with " The Conservatives", their only communication is "stop the SNP", "no2indyref2", and "stop Sturgeon".

[Fuzzywuzzy]

There's been a few things on internet saying that the queen has dies.

More than likely a lot of bollocks but IF she had died, as a hypothetical, do they tell the country or keep it quiet until after the election as it would more than likely they would need to cancel until next year.

[Cataplana]

There's been a few things on internet saying that the queen has dies.

More than likely a lot of bollocks but IF she had died, as a hypothetical, do they tell the country or keep it quiet until after the election as it would more than likely they would need to cancel until next year.

I don't think it's ever happened before.

[The Harp Awakes]

There's been a few things on internet saying that the queen has dies.

More than likely a lot of bollocks but IF she had died, as a hypothetical, do they tell the country or keep it quiet until after the election as it would more than likely they would need to cancel until next year.

Received a few texts last night saying the same and that it wouldn't be announced for 24 hours, just like when the Queen Mother died.

I suspect if it has/did happen the GE would be cancelled.

[Pretty Boy]

If the Queen has died and it's been revealed to the public by a guy called 'Gibbo' in a WhatsApp group then it's quite a nice picture of just how mental the UK has become.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

If the Queen has died and it's been revealed to the public by a guy called 'Gibbo' in a WhatsApp group then it's quite a nice picture of just how mental the UK has become.

😂😂

[lapsedhibee]

There's been a few things on internet saying that the queen has dies.

More than likely a lot of bollocks but IF she had died, as a hypothetical, do they tell the country or keep it quiet until after the election as it would more than likely they would need to cancel until next year.

Died or bumped off because she knew too much about Prince Andrew? :hmmm:

[cabbageandribs1875]

i bags her shares in Brighthouse

[Future17]

Interim Scottish Conservative Party leader Jackson Carlaw has been interviewed by the BBC and said, although he campaigned for "Remain" in the EU Referendum, he would campaign for "Leave" now because "the European Union has changed". The only example of this he gave was the EU "seeking to created a united army of the European Union by 2025".

The only problem with this, of course, is that the EU isn't seeking to do so. :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50628950

[Moulin Yarns]

The Britain Elects poll tracker - now updated.

Tories stagnant, Labour up 2pts, Lib Dems down 1pt.

CON: 42.4% (+0.2)
LAB: 31.8% (+2.1)
LDEM: 13.6% (-1.0)
BREX: 3.6% (-0.7)
GRN: 3.1% (-0.2)

Chgs. w/ last Monday (25 Nov)

https://t.co/m1hoBpI81D https://t.co/yy4u21sDm3

[Ozyhibby]

The Britain Elects poll tracker - now updated.

Tories stagnant, Labour up 2pts, Lib Dems down 1pt.

CON: 42.4% (+0.2)
LAB: 31.8% (+2.1)
LDEM: 13.6% (-1.0)
BREX: 3.6% (-0.7)
GRN: 3.1% (-0.2)

Chgs. w/ last Monday (25 Nov)

https://t.co/m1hoBpI81D https://t.co/yy4u21sDm3

Still too big a gap for a hung parliament with just over a week to go. Needs to be movement this week for Labour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SHODAN]

The Britain Elects poll tracker - now updated.

Tories stagnant, Labour up 2pts, Lib Dems down 1pt.

CON: 42.4% (+0.2)
LAB: 31.8% (+2.1)
LDEM: 13.6% (-1.0)
BREX: 3.6% (-0.7)
GRN: 3.1% (-0.2)

Chgs. w/ last Monday (25 Nov)

https://t.co/m1hoBpI81D https://t.co/yy4u21sDm3

That reads as though Labour are gaining off both the LDs and Brexit.

[cabbageandribs1875]

The Britain Elects poll tracker - now updated.

Tories stagnant, Labour up 2pts, Lib Dems down 1pt.

CON: 42.4% (+0.2)
LAB: 31.8% (+2.1)
LDEM: 13.6% (-1.0)
BREX: 3.6% (-0.7)
GRN: 3.1% (-0.2)

Chgs. w/ last Monday (25 Nov)

https://t.co/m1hoBpI81D https://t.co/yy4u21sDm3


that's a big gap, far too big a gap, what we need is more johnson interviews with possibly another interview with daddy johnson....and bring rees-mogg out of his forced mini-retirement, unleash him

[Mibbes Aye]

Still too big a gap for a hung parliament with just over a week to go. Needs to be movement this week for Labour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The real question is to what degree their sample reflects constituency arithmetic.

Corbynites bang on about the shift in vote and the share of the popular vote in 2017 being the biggest since 1945.

It was roughly similar to Blair in 1997 and 2001.

Blair got majorities of 150+.

Corbyn finished fifty seats being Theresa May.

There is no gain for Labour in piling up votes in Islington but falling to win the marginals.

[Hibernia&Alba]

that's a big gap, far too big a gap, what we need is more johnson interviews with possibly another interview with daddy johnson....and bring rees-mogg out of his forced mini-retirement, unleash him

Yes, their tactic is clearly to say as little as possible, believing they only need avoid major gaffes to win. Johnson's refusal to participate in a number of interviews and debates really is disgraceful.

[JeMeSouviens]

The polls have not done that thing where they all herd together yet. Opinium and Delta poll showing massive Tory leads of ~15%. At the other end, BMG and ICM are close to hung parliament territory, Here's today's ICM:

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 42% (+1)
LAB: 35% (+1)
LDM: 13% (=)
BXP: 3% (-1)

Via @ICMResearch, 29 Nov-2 Dec.
Changes w/ 22-25 Nov.

No closure but 35% is the highest Lab have polled for a while. I think they averaged around 35% in the final polls last time but actually got 40%. Ok, I'm straw clutching a bit I admit. Here's a graph plotting 2017 vs 2019 polling.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKyygH2XUAIVx1d?format=jpg&name=large

[CloudSquall]

Unfortunately I sent my postal vote away before "The Union" appeared on it..

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jackson_Carlaw/status/1201446156657664000

[CloudSquall]

I was reading more into the case of Neale Hanvey who was dropped by the SNP as their candidate in Kircaldy and Cowdenbeath due to anti-semitism (too late to remove him as the actual candidate for the SNP but he'll sit as an independent if he wins).

His posts were a photo of George Soros controlling world leaders as a puppet master, and another comparing the treatment of Palestinians to Jews during the Holocaust.

The interesting part if I can put it that way is that when the SNP announced he was no longer a candidate no one in the media knew about it and no one in the opposition did, it came to as a shock to everyone.

He was becoming quite a critical voice in the debate over the Gender Recognition Act, on the side of those like Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine who are critical of changes in regards to Self-ID due to their belief it could harm women's rights, and the rumour on Twitter is that it's been an "inside job" by Alyn Smith's partner and co who are a part of the ever growing "woke" community within the SNP looking to criticise anymore not 100% on board with self-identification.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Ozyhibby]

I was reading more into the case of Neale Hanvey who was dropped by the SNP as their candidate in Kircaldy and Cowdenbeath due to anti-semitism (too late to remove him as the actual candidate for the SNP but he'll sit as an independent if he wins).

His posts were a photo of George Soros controlling world leaders as a puppet master, and another comparing the treatment of Palestinians to Jews during the Holocaust.

The interesting part if I can put it that way is that when the SNP announced he was no longer a candidate no one in the media knew about it and no one in the opposition did, it came to as a shock to everyone.

He was becoming quite a critical voice in the debate over the Gender Recognition Act, on the side of those like Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine who are critical of changes in regards to Self-ID due to their belief it could harm women's rights, and the rumour on Twitter is that it's been an "inside job" by Alyn Smith's partner and co who are a part of the ever growing "woke" community within the SNP looking to criticise anymore not 100% on board with self-identification.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

If it’s anti Semitic, and it certainly sounds like it is then he should be out no matter who reported him or how many people seen the post.
The SNP have to act swiftly in any cases of racism or sectarianism in order to defend the fact that British nationalists would love to be able to portray them as nasty nationalists. There should be no place for that stuff in modern Scotland. Long way to go though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Unfortunately I sent my postal vote away before "The Union" appeared on it..

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jackson_Carlaw/status/1201446156657664000

Hilariously, when the SNP win they will say that it’s not a mandate for indyref 2 because the SNP made it all about other issues.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

If it’s anti Semitic, and it certainly sounds like it is then he should be out no matter who reported him or how many people seen the post.
The SNP have to act swiftly in any cases of racism or sectarianism in order to defend the fact that British nationalists would love to be able to portray them as nasty nationalists. There should be no place for that stuff in modern Scotland. Long way to go though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those things sound anti Soros and anti Zionist to me.

Soros is a character who raises strong emotions, the fact he is Jewish is not the issue.

It is not unacceptable to compare a state that oppresses people and ignores human rights to the Nazis. They are the baseline for that sort of thing, the issue is how different they are.

I am happy to learn more on this, but taking a simplistic view of this, it does not sound like an attack on Judaism.

[Ozyhibby]

Those things sound anti Soros and anti Zionist to me.

Soros is a character who raises strong emotions, the fact he is Jewish is not the issue.

It is not unacceptable to compare a state that oppresses people and ignores human rights to the Nazis. They are the baseline for that sort of thing, the issue is how different they are.

I am happy to learn more on this, but taking a simplistic view of this, it does not sound like an attack on Judaism.

It’s a stretch to believe that his pushing of right wing Soros conspiracy theories were not anti Semitic but even if they weren’t, it doesn’t sound like the sort of thing the SNP would want from a candidate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Future17]

It’s a stretch to believe that his pushing of right wing Soros conspiracy theories were not anti Semitic but even if they weren’t, it doesn’t sound like the sort of thing the SNP would want from a candidate?

It's been covered before on here, but it worries me that it appears to be becoming impossible for anyone to criticise Israel, or an individual who happens to be Jewish, without being accused of anti-Semitism.

Why is it a stretch to believe someone may be critical of Soros, or his role in world affairs, without it being entirely unrelated to anti-Semitism?

[Cataplana]

It's been covered before on here, but it worries me that it appears to be becoming impossible for anyone to criticise Israel, or an individual who happens to be Jewish, without being accused of anti-Semitism.

Why is it a stretch to believe someone may be critical of Soros, or his role in world affairs, without it being entirely unrelated to anti-Semitism?

You know that mural of all the world's poor holding up a table of the world's bankers? How come people are more worried that the bankers look Jewish, rather than the fact that there is a super rich elite that is propped up by the misery of others
It’s a stretch to believe that his pushing of right wing Soros conspiracy theories were not anti Semitic but even if they weren’t, it doesn’t sound like the sort of thing the SNP would want from a candidate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In what way were they anti Semitic? They were anti Soros, or anti global capitalism, but why would anyone link then to Judaism? Was he wearing a star of David?

They wouldn't want it in the current environment, where you are not allowed to criticise Soros, no. Otherwise would it matter any more than flying a balloon of Trump wearing nappies?

[marinello59]

You know that mural of all the world's poor holding up a table of the world's bankers? How come people are more worried that the bankers look Jewish, rather than the fact that there is a super rich elite that is propped up by the misery of others

In what way were they anti Semitic? They were anti Soros, or anti global capitalism, but why would anyone link then to Judaism? Was he wearing a star of David?

They wouldn't want it in the current environment, where you are not allowed to criticise Soros, no. Otherwise would it matter any more than flying a balloon of Trump wearing nappies?

Maybe you could ask Hanvey that given he has apologised for spreading anti-semitism. Or Nicola Sturgeon who stated yesterday that his suspension was entirely down to anti-Semitism. The argument you are offering here is basically the same as the one used by people trying to defend golliwogs as not being racist.

[Ozyhibby]

It's been covered before on here, but it worries me that it appears to be becoming impossible for anyone to criticise Israel, or an individual who happens to be Jewish, without being accused of anti-Semitism.

Why is it a stretch to believe someone may be critical of Soros, or his role in world affairs, without it being entirely unrelated to anti-Semitism?

Considering Soros has no time for the state of Israel and is critical of it’s occupation of Palestine, it may just be a coincidence that he chose these two targets? The only thing that connects them are that they are both seen as Jewish?

And criticism of Israel on here is perfectly fine in my book. But if it’s done by using anti Semitic references then it’s not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RyeSloan]

Maybe you could ask Hanvey that given he has apologised for spreading anti-semitism. Or Nicola Sturgeon who stated yesterday that his suspension was entirely down to anti-Semitism. The argument you are offering here is basically the same as the one used by people trying to defend golliwogs as not being racist.

Racial stereotypes, Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, Holocaust and Nazis....yup can’t possibly see how that might not go a bit wrong.

Put it this way. Even IF he believed he wasn’t being anti Semitic then he has left the door wide open to be interpreted that way. For example you
can raise and highlight the plight of the Palestinians without invoking the Holocaust.

I think these people know damn well that they are doing when they post this kind of stuff and their cries of innocence or mis interpretation or ‘defenders of free speech’ routines when called out on it ring a touch hollow to me.

[Ozyhibby]

You know that mural of all the world's poor holding up a table of the world's bankers? How come people are more worried that the bankers look Jewish, rather than the fact that there is a super rich elite that is propped up by the misery of others

In what way were they anti Semitic? They were anti Soros, or anti global capitalism, but why would anyone link then to Judaism? Was he wearing a star of David?

They wouldn't want it in the current environment, where you are not allowed to criticise Soros, no. Otherwise would it matter any more than flying a balloon of Trump wearing nappies?

The portrayal of Jews as puppet masters is a centuries old anti Semitic trope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

The portrayal of Jews as puppet masters is a centuries old anti Semitic trope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fair enough, but this wasn't a portrayal of a stereotypical Jew, this was a portrayal of one Jew in particular. Isn't it a convenient diversion for him to describe it as anti Semitic, rather than a comment on him?

[Ozyhibby]

Fair enough, but this wasn't a portrayal of a stereotypical Jew, this was a portrayal of one Jew in particular. Isn't it a convenient diversion for him to describe it as anti Semitic, rather than a comment on him?

For that to stand up there would need to be evidence of Soros controlling governments?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

Racial stereotypes, Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, Holocaust and Nazis....yup can’t possibly see how that might not go a bit wrong.

Put it this way. Even IF he believed he wasn’t being anti Semitic then he has left the door wide open to be interpreted that way. For example you
can raise and highlight the plight of the Palestinians without invoking the Holocaust.

I think these people know damn well that they are doing when they post this kind of stuff and their cries of innocence or mis interpretation or ‘defenders of free speech’ routines when called out on it ring a touch hollow to me.

The comparisons with the Nazis have been around since the 80s at least. Many people were dismayed to see victims of the Holocaust imitating some of the behaviours of their persecutors.

I think it is dangerous for anyone to say that other people know damn well what they are saying, without listening to their explanation why they are saying it. It is extremely prejudiced.

[Cataplana]

For that to stand up there would need to be evidence of Soros controlling governments?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or a suspicion of it?

[RyeSloan]

The comparisons with the Nazis have been around since the 80s at least. Many people were dismayed to see victims of the Holocaust imitating some of the behaviours of their persecutors.

I think it is dangerous for anyone to say that other people know damn well what they are saying, without listening to their explanation why they are saying it. It is extremely prejudiced.

Prejudiced? Well maybe so, maybe not. But there is ways and means of saying something and when you know it will be treading a fine line or echoing stuff that’s been called out before then I’m gonna make a judgement call on their motives or underlying drivers. Just like what the SNP have done in this case.

[Ozyhibby]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

Prejudiced? Well maybe so, maybe not. But there is ways and means of saying something and when you know it will be treading a fine line or echoing stuff that’s been called out before then I’m gonna make a judgement call on their motives or underlying drivers. Just like what the SNP have done in this case.

That is the argument used by bigots everywhere, and really has no place in informed debate. It is prejudiced, and u don't think that is a good thing at all.

I was driving too slowly recently, the car behind tooted his horn. I said to my passenger that all drivers in Glasgow are aggressive.

She said, "how do you know?" I said, "one was aggressive the last time I was here."

[Future17]

Why is it a stretch to believe someone may be critical of Soros, or his role in world affairs, without it being entirely unrelated to anti-Semitism?


Considering Soros has no time for the state of Israel and is critical of it’s occupation of Palestine, it may just be a coincidence that he chose these two targets? The only thing that connects them are that they are both seen as Jewish?

And criticism of Israel on here is perfectly fine in my book. But if it’s done by using anti Semitic references then it’s not.

Respectfully, I don’t think this answers my question.

It’s possible for someone to suspect Soros of manipulating world affairs, and to be critical of that, without being anti-Semitic; many people throughout history (including current figures) have been accused of the same manipulation without the suspicion being linked to their race.

There are wholly understandable sensitivities around this issue, but I do worry that those sensitivities can sometimes be taken too far, resulting in an extreme reaction which shuts down genuine debate.

[RyeSloan]

That is the argument used by bigots everywhere, and really has no place in informed debate. It is prejudiced, and u don't think that is a good thing at all.

I was driving too slowly recently, the car behind tooted his horn. I said to my passenger that all drivers in Glasgow are aggressive.

She said, "how do you know?" I said, "one was aggressive the last time I was here."

So I’m a bigot now? Weird comment.

I’m making a call that this dude knew full well what he was saying and how it could, and was, construed. Simple as that.

If that makes me prejudiced and bigoted in your mind then so be it. It’s interesting though that you moved from trying to defend what and how he said something to an ad hominem on me but hey that probably just my prejudiced view ;-)

[Ozyhibby]

Respectfully, I don’t think this answers my question.

It’s possible for someone to suspect Soros of manipulating world affairs, and to be critical of that, without being anti-Semitic; many people throughout history (including current figures) have been accused of the same manipulation without the suspicion being linked to their race.

There are wholly understandable sensitivities around this issue, but I do worry that those sensitivities can sometimes be taken too far, resulting in an extreme reaction which shuts down genuine debate.

There is no evidence out there that George Soros is controlling world affairs though, is there? The only thing that is different between Soros and other billionaires is that he has given most of his money away and he is Jewish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191203/2ae2174f179c2293e7bb91bb870cda33.jpg

Polls just not closing quickly enough. Can’t see anything other than a Tory majority now.
All about what happens in Scotland now for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

There is no evidence out there that George Soros is controlling world affairs though, is there? The only thing that is different between Soros and other billionaires is that he has given most of his money away and he is Jewish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't even know Soros was Jewish until yesterday. To say people only criticise him because he is Jewish is wrong.

It is as wrong as people saying the only reason people defend him is because he is Jewish.

[BroxburnHibee]

Is this still a General Election thread?

[Cataplana]

So I’m a bigot now? Weird comment.

I’m making a call that this dude knew full well what he was saying and how it could, and was, construed. Simple as that.

If that makes me prejudiced and bigoted in your mind then so be it. It’s interesting though that you moved from trying to defend what and how he said something to an ad hominem on me but hey that probably just my prejudiced view ;-)

What's interesting is how quickly you developed this into a personal squabble, and in quite a vitriolic manner too.

I wasn't actually defending what he said, I was commenting on how difficult it is to discuss it.

Frankly, I don't know who you are, and I don't care either. When your argument falls back on judging people on what their party is perceived to have done in the past, you might as well say "they're all the same, what else do you exoect?"

That's prejudiced and bigoted.

[Cataplana]

Is this still a General Election thread?

Regrettably anti semitism has been a bit of an issue throughout the election.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/1030742/anti-racism-groups-and-party-officials-urge-scottish-labour-to-suspend-dundee-west-candidate-jim-malone/

[JeMeSouviens]

I didn't even know Soros was Jewish until yesterday. To say people only criticise him because he is Jewish is wrong.

It is as wrong as people saying the only reason people defend him is because he is Jewish.

Aiui, the SNP guy was binned for retweeting a propaganda cartoon of Soros as "Jewish puppet master". As said above, a trope used by anti-semites for a long time.

Imagine if someone on here posted a cartoon of Uche Ikpeazu mocked up as a golliwog. Would you say that criticism of such a posting suggested you can't call Uche a big huddy because he's black?

[Future17]

There is no evidence out there that George Soros is controlling world affairs though, is there? The only thing that is different between Soros and other billionaires is that he has given most of his money away and he is Jewish.

I'm no expert, but I do know that Soros primarily made his billions through manipulation of financial markets. His wealth came at the expense of others. If one were to believe in a "puppet master" figure, he's a reasonable candidate irrespective of his faith.

He's also been criticised by other Jews. Are they anti-Semitic?

[RyeSloan]

What's interesting is how quickly you developed this into a personal squabble, and in quite a vitriolic manner too.

I wasn't actually defending what he said, I was commenting on how difficult it is to discuss it.

Frankly, I don't know who you are, and I don't care either. When your argument falls back on judging people on what their party is perceived to have done in the past, you might as well say "they're all the same, what else do you exoect?"

That's prejudiced and bigoted.

Aha OK so you’ve managed to call me prejudiced, a bigot and now vitriolic yet it’s me that’s turned it personal. Got ya.

But anyway let’s just leave this here as I’m sure we both have better things to spend our day on.

[Cataplana]

Aiui, the SNP guy was binned for retweeting a propaganda cartoon of Soros as "Jewish puppet master". As said above, a trope used by anti-semites for a long time.

Imagine if someone on here posted a cartoon of Uche Ikpeazu mocked up as a golliwog. Would you say that criticism of such a posting suggested you can't call Uche a big huddy because he's black?

There is no doubt about the link between Golliwogs and racism. I hadn't been aware that the puppet master was an exclusively anti Jewish motif.

I've got no axe to grind with Soros, I don't really know who he is.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm no expert, but I do know that Soros primarily made his billions through manipulation of financial markets. His wealth came at the expense of others. If one were to believe in a "puppet master" figure, he's a reasonable candidate irrespective of his faith.

He's also been criticised by other Jews. Are they anti-Semitic?

He made his wealth through investing in financial markets. Manipulating them is illegal. And at the expense of others? There has to be two people in a trade and they both have to be happy for it to happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Tubs]

I actually respect Soros. By bringing down the bank of England he eventually helped bring down a tory government. He campaigns for liberty against tyranny. And all of this with a degree in philosophy.

He might be stinking rich but he got there using his intelligence, unlike many others. He's probably been involved in some shady stuff I don't know about, however.

[Future17]

He made his wealth through investing in financial markets. Manipulating them is illegal. And at the expense of others? There has to be two people in a trade and they both have to be happy for it to happen.

Manipulating financial markets isn't illegal; it's what skilful speculators do.

You are, of course, correct that there has to be at least two parties to a trade, but when one of them is essentially a government and it takes a consequent financial hit, a lot of people suffer as a result.

To be clear, I think that the vast majority of the negatives written about Soros are made up nonsense, but that doesn't mean I can't understand why people may be suspicious and/or critical of him. And it certainly doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to be critical of him out of fear of being accused of anti-Semitism.

[Cataplana]

. And it certainly doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to be critical of him out of fear of being accused of anti-Semitism.

I wish I'd been able to say it like that. It appears that the guy was suspended for anti Semitic propaganda, but we should still be careful before we tar people, or entire parties as anti Semitic.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191203/2ae2174f179c2293e7bb91bb870cda33.jpg

Polls just not closing quickly enough. Can’t see anything other than a Tory majority now.
All about what happens in Scotland now for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's looking that way. That poll makes for depressing reading. I do think another five years of the Tories and Johnson, with their hard Brexit, will facilitate another independence referendum within a couple of years. Next time I will vote Yes and leave England to their fate. If they want a hard right society, good luck to them.

[Moulin Yarns]

Ofcom rejects Tories' complaint that Channel 4 broke election rules by placing an ice sculpture on the podium intended for Boris Johnson during last week's climate debate

https://t.co/pbpa9pGfI8 https://t.co/gpV2apFfW2

[SHODAN]

All of these opinion polls are massive underestimating the youth vote. If people my age actually bother their arse and get out and vote, we can force a hung parliament.

[Hibernia&Alba]

All of these opinion polls are massive underestimating the youth vote. If people my age actually bother their arse and get out and vote, we can force a hung parliament.

Yes, and registering to vote, especially students, is vital.

[Ozyhibby]

All of these opinion polls are massive underestimating the youth vote. If people my age actually bother their arse and get out and vote, we can force a hung parliament.

That’s why they are not underestimating it. They won’t vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

Maybe you could ask Hanvey that given he has apologised for spreading anti-semitism. Or Nicola Sturgeon who stated yesterday that his suspension was entirely down to anti-Semitism. The argument you are offering here is basically the same as the one used by people trying to defend golliwogs as not being racist.

Sorry, I didn't see this last night.

I didn't realise they were meant to be Jews until it was pointed out. In retrospect, I wonder how I could have missed what are stereotypical representations of Jews, and I think it's because I was much more interested in the people under the table than sitting at it.

I didn't look too closely, and at a first glance I just saw rich old men. I saw them as a cabal, admittedly, but just didn't think hard enough about the fact that most of them do look Jewish.

I accept that, as the artist has apologised for anti Semitism, that the mural is wrong. The same thing goes for defending Hanvey. - which I don't think I ever was, I was trying to say how difficult it is to criticise some people without being accused of being a bigot, a bit more diversity and that picture would have been spot on.

[The Modfather]

Is this still a General Election thread?

Does this thread not reflect politics and the general election quite well? Various tangents and debates about anything and everything apart from the real issues of government.

[Ozyhibby]

Does this thread not reflect politics and the general election quite well? Various tangents and debates about anything and everything apart from the real issues of government.

Anti semitism has been an issue in this election but I doubt it moves many votes at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Aiui, the SNP guy was binned for retweeting a propaganda cartoon of Soros as "Jewish puppet master". As said above, a trope used by anti-semites for a long time.

Imagine if someone on here posted a cartoon of Uche Ikpeazu mocked up as a golliwog. Would you say that criticism of such a posting suggested you can't call Uche a big huddy because he's black?


He hasn't been binned. This is on twitter

Email from local SNP rep regarding Neale Hanvey.
Briefly:
1. Neale’s SNP membership is only suspended, and he has not been expelled. The normal disciplinary process will apply. Accordingly, it is entirely possible that his suspension will be lifted at the end of the process. 1/6



Take a look at YES 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 (@Edinburgh51): https://twitter.com/Edinburgh51?s=09

[Moulin Yarns]

On twitter


Rennie with his unionist contemptuous attitude towards Scotland,explains why Scotland should be an independent country & why you should #VoteSNP not LibDumbs🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

The better together campaign of all unionist parties said we would be equal partners😂doesn’t sound like it https://t.co/Bi5WLp6i9L

[Future17]

Anti semitism has been an issue in this election but I doubt it moves many votes at all.

I agree. I'd go so far as to say the media obsession with it is likely to reduce the likelihood of any movement of votes.

[wpj]

Just watched the Brexit party political broadcast, farage is a complete erse, dunno if you had it in Scotland but he was pushing his Mr Toad looking mofo lies and propaganda to the max. Blaming EU for shutting down industry in UK walking through a derelict factory. Alright when the institute he abhors will keep him, his German wife and kids in pension payments for his later years not to mention the wages has already pocketed. Job done! Sad thing is so many people will see this and believe what he has said. Angriest I have felt this campaign.

[Colr]

Just watched the Brexit party political broadcast, farage is a complete erse, dunno if you had it in Scotland but he was pushing his Mr Toad looking mofo lies and propaganda to the max. Blaming EU for shutting down industry in UK walking through a derelict factory. Alright when the institute he abhors will keep him, his German wife and kids in pension payments for his later years not to mention the wages has already pocketed. Job done! Sad thing is so many people will see this and believe what he has said. Angriest I have felt this campaign.
Did anyone see the UKIP launch!! Barking mad!!

They ditched leader, Dick Braine, for Pat Mountain! I thought that was the milkman in Father Ted.

[wpj]

Did anyone see the UKIP launch!! Barking mad!!

They ditched leader, Dick Braine, for Pat Mountain! I thought that was the milkman in Father Ted.

Apparently they made her out of a mole hill

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191203/441aea74faf71205b3f7d5f3d5fac80c.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GlesgaeHibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191203/441aea74faf71205b3f7d5f3d5fac80c.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here's hoping.

Difficult when up against this level of ignorance:

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1201816755829641218?s=19

[stoneyburn hibs]

Stv Debate: Bit of a mess.
The only clear thing I'm seeing is that Rennie is a walloper.

[Hiber-nation]

Stv Debate: Bit of a mess.
The only clear thing I'm seeing is that Rennie is a walloper.

Aye, knew it would be. They shouldn't have them questioning each other, it just ends up a rabble.

[cabbageandribs1875]

willie rennie has been a total e rse in this STV debate, a total e rse with everyone

as much as i despise carlaw it was embarrassing listening to rennie go on and on and on at him regarding bawjawz johnson


are you not ashamed
that's terrible
you should be ashamed
are you not ashamed
dearie me
are you not ashamed


nicola sturgeon at one question simply asked him to be the stand up straight guy that he claims he is....cue rennie saying out of shot 'no need to be insulting' :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

I hadn’t realised how bad Willie Rennie was. [emoji23]
Jackson Carlaw done better than I thought but the lend us your vote line smacks of not believing in your own policies.
Sturgeon done well as usual.
Leonard probably would have done ok but he doesn’t have any set policies to defend. And talking about the deficit of an independent Scotland is a bit rich when you look at Labours current manifesto. Deficits are clearly not a problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

Willie Rennie gets right on my tits. I think I dislike home more than even Carlaw.. Get off your knees you snivelling crawler.

[Glory Lurker]

Rennie is just like his fellow arch-unionist David Mundell, all whine and nae spine.

[lord bunberry]

Just watched the Brexit party political broadcast, farage is a complete erse, dunno if you had it in Scotland but he was pushing his Mr Toad looking mofo lies and propaganda to the max. Blaming EU for shutting down industry in UK walking through a derelict factory. Alright when the institute he abhors will keep him, his German wife and kids in pension payments for his later years not to mention the wages has already pocketed. Job done! Sad thing is so many people will see this and believe what he has said. Angriest I have felt this campaign.
I think his German wife also seen the light and binned him.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191203/97db608d353aae7de118dff19ffdcd05.jpg

That lead needs to be under 3% for a hung parliament. [emoji22]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191203/785a37f7cb183b4bb2839eeea72dca54.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79258475_2599609566741333_6505532288317521920_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=-r6CZE-vRfoAQkSBy0JESLdJ11-Smp-R82oqXIYkFkPTHArskdQdNmhSw&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=32f6d3f383eaab595500f406216ae630&oe=5E86D2B9


i'm trying to find more details, maybe the Q was who is the worst performer....and wee willie came last









:fibber:

[The Harp Awakes]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79258475_2599609566741333_6505532288317521920_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=-r6CZE-vRfoAQkSBy0JESLdJ11-Smp-R82oqXIYkFkPTHArskdQdNmhSw&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=32f6d3f383eaab595500f406216ae630&oe=5E86D2B9


i'm trying to find more details, maybe the Q was who is the worst performer....and wee willie came last









:fibber:

Willie Rennie is painful to watch. All he ever does is interrupt and whine relentlessly and he has the charisma of a snail.

He should give up politics and go back to his tiddlywinks.

[wpj]

I think his German wife also seen the light and binned him.

Can't have been easy for her living with that prick. I hope she takes up with a British remainer.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Willie Rennie is painful to watch. All he ever does is interrupt and whine relentlessly and he has the charisma of a snail.

He should give up politics and go back to his tiddlywinks.


taken afterwards, voting up until friday, he could still win :greengrin

22752

[lord bunberry]

taken afterwards, voting up until friday, he could still win :greengrin

22752
I’m amazed Willie got 1%, I’m guessing there’s a 1% margin of error.

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/theSNP/status/1201967095644377093

I almost had to stop watching this part due to the cringe.

Shirley they have someone better than Rennie?

[Colr]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191203/785a37f7cb183b4bb2839eeea72dca54.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting site. Their constituency level predictions are worth a look. The north London seats change is remarkable suggesting that Labour will do much better that I had expected.

They ate also suggesting a hung parliament is looking more likely.

Tories have run another utterly **** campaign with an utterly **** leader.

[heretoday]

Willie Rennie is painful to watch. All he ever does is interrupt and whine relentlessly and he has the charisma of a snail.

He should give up politics and go back to his tiddlywinks.
He's OK. He's the only one who I'd consider going for a beer with. I won't be voting for him though!

[Green Man]

I found it amusing this week when I got a LibDem leaflet through the door, mentioning a “once in a generation” opportunity for democracy.

[SHODAN]

Wonder if Rennie just cost Swinson her seat.

[weecounty hibby]

Wonder if Rennie just cost Swinson her seat.

We can only hope so!!

[RyeSloan]

IFS claiming Labours nationalisation plans will cost around £200bn and come with £150bn of debt.

So only another £200bn for Labour to find to fund their manifesto pledges but another £150bn of debt liability as well.

Interesting the IFS suggest that these plans will cause significant disruption to these industries and could delay vital works. They also appear to be less than convinced Labour has any clear evidence for the long term benefit of their plans.

Rubbish says John McDonnell, flatly rejecting the IFS argument. Just like he did when they highlighted flaws in his other spending plans.

Strangely any time I read anything about these plans I’m reminded of the Vardy song...”He’ll spend what he wants, John McDonnell he’ll spend what he wants”

[Ozyhibby]

IFS claiming Labours nationalisation plans will cost around £200bn and come with £150bn of debt.

So only another £200bn for Labour to find to fund their manifesto pledges but another £150bn of debt liability as well.

Interesting the IFS suggest that these plans will cause significant disruption to these industries and could delay vital works. They also appear to be less than convinced Labour has any clear evidence for the long term benefit of their plans.

Rubbish says John McDonnell, flatly rejecting the IFS argument. Just like he did when they highlighted flaws in his other spending plans.

Strangely any time I read anything about these plans I’m reminded of the Vardy song...”He’ll spend what he wants, John McDonnell he’ll spend what he wants”

Cheek to worry about the notional deficit in Scotland.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

IFS claiming Labours nationalisation plans will cost around £200bn and come with £150bn of debt.

So only another £200bn for Labour to find to fund their manifesto pledges but another £150bn of debt liability as well.

Interesting the IFS suggest that these plans will cause significant disruption to these industries and could delay vital works. They also appear to be less than convinced Labour has any clear evidence for the long term benefit of their plans.

Rubbish says John McDonnell, flatly rejecting the IFS argument. Just like he did when they highlighted flaws in his other spending plans.

Strangely any time I read anything about these plans I’m reminded of the Vardy song...”He’ll spend what he wants, John McDonnell he’ll spend what he wants”

A different point, of course, but do you have any idea why McDonnell and Corbyn are labelled commies, Marxists, etc, when their proposals to increase state spending would more or less bring the UK into line with the state spending of other advanced European/Scandinavian countries? Is it that the whole of Europe and Scandinavia are commies and Marxists? :dunno: