General election 2019

[SHODAN]

Here we goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Green Man]

Two in a row?

[Cataplana]

Where can I watch it in Ulan Bator?

[Hibbyradge]

Hanlon 17

[DaveF]

I'll be in Tenerife. What an all nighter that will be 😁

[JeMeSouviens]

Hecky out! :grr:

[SHODAN]

Amendment allowing opposition amendments (I know) passed. Hopefully they can pass ones allowing settled statuses to vote and removing the requirement for voter ID.

[JeMeSouviens]

Amendment allowing opposition amendments (I know) passed. Hopefully they can pass ones allowing settled statuses to vote and removing the requirement for voter ID.

Amendment to the programme motion to allow amendments to the bill. Crystal? :wink:

[CloudSquall]

What are your seat predictions for Scotland?


I'm going for the below,




SNP
49


Lib Dems
5


Tory
4


Labour
1




Can't see Labour keeping any of their seats bar Murray, the Tories should have big enough majorities in the borders to keep their seats there but elsewhere they will be booted out.

I was initially thinking Lib Dems could pick up more but seats but there are not many seats where they are currently in 2nd and within striking distance, North East Fife could swing their way where the SNP have a majority of 2, apart from that I can't see them picking up extra seats.

SNP to clean up shop elsewhere.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.bestforbritain.org/getvoting

[JeMeSouviens]

What are your seat predictions for Scotland?


I'm going for the below,




SNP
49


Lib Dems
5


Tory
4


Labour
1




Can't see Labour keeping any of their seats bar Murray, the Tories should have big enough majorities in the borders to keep their seats there but elsewhere they will be booted out.

I was initially thinking Lib Dems could pick up more but seats but there are not many seats where they are currently in 2nd and within striking distance, North East Fife could swing their way where the SNP have a majority of 2, apart from that I can't see them picking up extra seats.

SNP to clean up shop elsewhere.

I think you're about right - hoping the 4 Tories is over pessimistic though.

[Pretty Boy]

SNP for me this time around.

They'll have to work hard to get my vote back at Holyrood but at Westminster it's a no brainer at the moment. I voted Labour last time out and in terms of policy I actually like most of what they have to say. However their lack of any coherent strategy when it comes to Brexit and the fact they are totally unelectable makes it essentially a wasted vote.

[Alex Trager]

Bojo to abandon GE if 16YO and EU nationals given vote

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bestforbritain.org/getvoting

Will be interesting to see how neutral it is for Scottish constituencies. Previous ones have suggested voting Lib Dem in Scotland.


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[Hibbyradge]

https://www.bestforbritain.org/getvoting

This is good.

[CloudSquall]

I think you're about right - hoping the 4 Tories is over pessimistic though.

Me too, having checked West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine could flip back to the SNP if they get a similar swing to what the Tories got last time around.

[Northernhibee]

Bojo to abandon GE if 16YO and EU nationals given vote

That worked with every other vote he's threatened to pull :rolleyes:

That would also lead to the deal going back to parliament and I fear that at some point it will go through.

[Peevemor]

Bojo to abandon GE if 16YO and EU nationals given vote

I can understand for the U18s but, as ian Blackford already pointed out, the EU nationals are already on the electoral register so they shouldn't make any difference in terms of timescale.

[Alex Trager]

I can understand for the U18s but, as ian Blackford already pointed out, the EU nationals are already on the electoral register so they shouldn't make any difference in terms of timescale.

I’d imagine it is purely to prevent a pro EU party getting into power.

If he is dressing it up as a time thing then IB is bang on the money.

Load of *****

[SHODAN]

Bojo to abandon GE if 16YO and EU nationals given vote

If that's the case, I hope they remember that.

[Northernhibee]

https://capx.co/why-boris-election-gamble-could-backfire/

Very interesting read.

[danhibees1875]

EU nationals have never been allowed to vote in general elections and apparently that's the same in every other EU country so I can see why Boris won't feel under much pressure to suddenly change things.

I don't agree with it and infact their exclusion from the Brexit referendum in the first place has always wound me up a bit (were they excluded from the Scottish one?).

[ronaldo7]

EU nationals have never been allowed to vote in general elections and apparently that's the same in every other EU country so I can see why Boris won't feel under much pressure to suddenly change things.

I don't agree with it and infact their exclusion from the Brexit referendum in the first place has always wound me up a bit (were they excluded from the Scottish one?).

They got the vote in the 2014 indyref. They'll get it again the next time. 👍

[Ozyhibby]

They got the vote in the 2014 indyref. They'll get it again the next time. [emoji106]

Their vote was crucial in 2014. I’m sure there was polling evidence which showed that Yes had a majority among people born in Scotland.
I agree, if you live here, no matter where you are from you should have the right to vote.


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[danhibees1875]

They got the vote in the 2014 indyref. They'll get it again the next time. 👍

Thanks - that's what I thought but good to confirm. :aok:

[GlesgaeHibby]

https://capx.co/why-boris-election-gamble-could-backfire/

Very interesting read.

Good read. John Curtice was also warning that this may backfire for the Tories as the smaller parties will return over 100 seats due to SNP and LD gains, which will make achieving a majority very difficult.

Fingers crossed.

[Northernhibee]

12th December.

[Jack Hackett]

Their vote was crucial in 2014. I’m sure there was polling evidence which showed that Yes had a majority among people born in Scotland.
I agree, if you live here, no matter where you are from you should have the right to vote.


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On the back of them being harangued that a 'Yes' vote would mean them having to go home as Scotland would lose membership of the EU.. which even if true, was disingenuous, as it would have been an independent Scotland's decision about who worked and lived in the country, regardless of where they came from.

[Glory Lurker]

Any team news?

[Green Man]

Any team news?

Ian Murray starts for the reds.

[Andy Bee]

Bojo to abandon GE if 16YO and EU nationals given vote

Pretty hypocritical of BJ considering 16 year olds were allowed to vote in his leadership contest.

[Smartie]

Interesting interview with a Tory on BBC breakfast news there (Hancock?) just before I left the house.

In the space of a few minutes I counted him saying that a vote for any other party other than the conservatives is a vote to put Jeremy Corbyn in 10 Downing Street at least 4, maybe 5 times.

The conservative election campaign is well underway and it appears that they’re going full on project fear re Corbyn.

[CloudSquall]

Interesting interview with a Tory on BBC breakfast news there (Hancock?) just before I left the house.

In the space of a few minutes I counted him saying that a vote for any other party than the conservatives is a vote to put Jeremy Corbyn in 10 Downing Street at least 4, maybe 5 times.

The conservative election campaign is well underway and it appears that they’re going full on project fear re Corbyn.

The term "coalition of chaos" must be getting dusted down for use now, the idea of 50 Jocks in government will be enough to horrify boat loads of voters down south to vote Tory.

[Cataplana]

Ian Murray starts for the reds.

That's an own goal before a ball is kicked.

[weecounty hibby]

Interesting interview with a Tory on BBC breakfast news there (Hancock?) just before I left the house.

In the space of a few minutes I counted him saying that a vote for any other party other than the conservatives is a vote to put Jeremy Corbyn in 10 Downing Street at least 4, maybe 5 times.

The conservative election campaign is well underway and it appears that they’re going full on project fear re Corbyn.
It's typically Tory to do this. Don't talk about policy at all just okay to the lowest common denominator. In England it's Corbyn, in Scotland it's SNP. They just don't have anything worth voting for so use the bogey man to try to draw votes

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.bestforbritain.org/getvoting

I posted this link yesterday. It's a tactical voting guide to getting rid of Tories.

Disappointingly, they either don't know their arse from their elbow here or they've bottled it: no recommendations in Scotland. We need to get rid of those 13 Tories and if that means 10 SNP and 3 Lib Dems or whatever, then that's what we should do.

[Fife-Hibee]

https://www.bestforbritain.org/getvoting

I posted this link yesterday. It's a tactical voting guide to getting rid of Tories.

Disappointingly, they either don't know their arse from their elbow here or they've bottled it: no recommendations in Scotland. We need to get rid of those 13 Tories and if that means 10 SNP and 3 Lib Dems or whatever, then that's what we should do.

Every tory seat in Scotland has the SNP in 2nd place.

Remember, unionists vote tactically as well. So by placing most of their votes on the tories, they leave the other unionist parties severely short in comparison to the SNP.

[Hibbyradge]

https://www.bestforbritain.org/getvoting

I posted this link yesterday. It's a tactical voting guide to getting rid of Tories.

Disappointingly, they either don't know their arse from their elbow here or they've bottled it: no recommendations in Scotland. We need to get rid of those 13 Tories and if that means 10 SNP and 3 Lib Dems or whatever, then that's what we should do.

Yes, that is what we should do, but they don't want to recommend against the SNP, Labour or Lib Dems so maybe it would be difficult to make recommendations for only 13 seats?

I've asked them the question.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i think Doris Johnson,like his predecessor the Dancing Queen, will very much regret having an Election....i really really do :agree: the results coming in on friday the 13th will be unlucky, for him :cb

[Hiber-nation]

Mention for the Hibees in PMQs...Blackford wishes Bercow all the best for his retirement and invites him up to ER!

[Curried]

Mention for the Hibees in PMQs...Blackford wishes Bercow all the best for his retirement and invites him up to ER!

:thumbsup:

[hibby6270]

Mention for the Hibees in PMQs...Blackford wishes Bercow all the best for his retirement and invites him up to ER!

You beat me to it.:rolleyes:

“If he ever needs to visit a football team as an antidote to Arsenal, he’ll always be welcome at Easter Road to see the mighty Hibernian” followed by guffaws of laughter!!

Antidote? Anaesthetic more like. :greengrin

[CloudSquall]

Yes, that is what we should do, but they don't want to recommend against the SNP, Labour or Lib Dems so maybe it would be difficult to make recommendations for only 13 seats?

I've asked them the question.


It seems it's not working well in England either, it recommends voting Lib Dem in Bromsgrove, they lost their deposit last time around :greengrin

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/1189548100815380481

[heretoday]

You beat me to it.:rolleyes:

“If he ever needs to visit a football team as an antidote to Arsenal, he’ll always be welcome at Easter Road to see the mighty Hibernian” followed by guffaws of laughter!!

Antidote? Anaesthetic more like. :greengrin

He certainly wouldn't have any bother being heard in the crowd!

[lapsedhibee]

Interesting interview with a Tory on BBC breakfast news there (Hancock?) just before I left the house.

In the space of a few minutes I counted him saying that a vote for any other party other than the conservatives is a vote to put Jeremy Corbyn in 10 Downing Street at least 4, maybe 5 times.

The conservative election campaign is well underway and it appears that they’re going full on project fear re Corbyn.

Did he also remember to parrot that The Whole Country Wants To Get Brexit Done?

Looking forward in this election to seeing whether a single Tory comes out with a single statement that isn't a simplistic Cummings slogan, but, even more than that, seeing what Led By Donkeys might do with the clip about Johnson being a filthy toerag.

[CloudSquall]

Financial Times are saying that the Brexit Party is considering dropping out of 100s of seats and concentrating on 20 to 30 leave supporting Labour seats.

Big boost for Boris if true.

[Fife-Hibee]

Financial Times are saying that the Brexit Party is considering dropping out of 100s of seats and concentrating on 20 to 30 leave supporting Labour seats.

Big boost for Boris if true.

and so it begins.

[Moulin Yarns]

Financial Times are saying that the Brexit Party is considering dropping out of 100s of seats and concentrating on 20 to 30 leave supporting Labour seats.

Big boost for Boris if true.

Strange to target leave Labour constituencies.

[Frankhfc]

Strange to target leave Labour constituencies.

Probably (I don't know for certain) the constituencies that were very pro leave but where the Labour MP's consistently voted down Brexit.

Rightly voted down against Brexit in my opinion.

[Mr Grieves]

Financial Times are saying that the Brexit Party is considering dropping out of 100s of seats and concentrating on 20 to 30 leave supporting Labour seats.

Big boost for Boris if true.

We're ****ed

[marinello59]

Financial Times are saying that the Brexit Party is considering dropping out of 100s of seats and concentrating on 20 to 30 leave supporting Labour seats.

Big boost for Boris if true.

They won't have the money to fight every seat. This was always going to happen.

[Bristolhibby]

Financial Times are saying that the Brexit Party is considering dropping out of 100s of seats and concentrating on 20 to 30 leave supporting Labour seats.

Big boost for Boris if true.

Farage is a self serving narcissist who needs to be in the spotlight. No way he is pulling candidates. How we internet “party” needs to get seats and attention.

If true, the Tories really have become the BREXIT Party. The very thing Cameron called the referendum to stop. The transformation will have been complete.

J

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191030/87b7f89b1e7ea77cc19fea95bfeb84e0.jpg


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[Future17]

Pretty hypocritical of BJ considering 16 year olds were allowed to vote in his leadership contest.

To be fair, most 16 year olds who are members of the Conservative Party will have an opinion-forming age of about 83.

[Ozyhibby]

Dominic grieve standing as an independent and the Lib Dem’s are standing aside in the constituency to give him a better chance. Hopefully see more of this.


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[Jack Hackett]

To be fair, most 16 year olds who are members of the Conservative Party will have an opinion-forming age of about 83.

I have a vague memory of IDS addressing a Conservative conference as a schoolboy... and being the same odious little person that he is today.

[Ozyhibby]

I have a vague memory of IDS addressing a Conservative conference as a schoolboy... and being the same odious little person that he is today.

Hague maybe?

https://youtu.be/qL_p9qjfu5U

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[Cataplana]

I have a vague memory of IDS addressing a Conservative conference as a schoolboy... and being the same odious little person that he is today.

Don't be vague, choose Hague.

[JeMeSouviens]

IpsosMORI/EveningStandard poll

Conservatives 41% (+8)
Labour 24% (nc)
Lib Dems 20% (-3)
Brexit Party 7% (-3)
Greens 3% (-1)

Fieldwork: 1,006 GB adults by telephone. 25th - 28th October

Hmmm, Brexit party seem to be fading. If they stay quiet or stand aside then things look bleak indeed with such a big Lab/Lib split.

I've often thought the Libs should just **** off. I mean what's the point of them really?

[Northernhibee]

https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1189683286307680262?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Survation poll for the Daily Mail.

Interesting stuff.

[Colr]

I have a vague memory of IDS addressing a Conservative conference as a schoolboy... and being the same odious little person that he is today.

That might have been William Hague

[Colr]

Pretty hypocritical of BJ considering 16 year olds were allowed to vote in his leadership contest.

Bet there was LOADS of them as well

[Fife-Hibee]

IpsosMORI/EveningStandard poll

Conservatives 41% (+8)
Labour 24% (nc)
Lib Dems 20% (-3)
Brexit Party 7% (-3)
Greens 3% (-1)

Fieldwork: 1,006 GB adults by telephone. 25th - 28th October

Hmmm, Brexit party seem to be fading. If they stay quiet or stand aside then things look bleak indeed with such a big Lab/Lib split.

I've often thought the Libs should just **** off. I mean what's the point of them really?

I think deep down, everybody knows what the purpose of the Lib Dems are. They just won't admit it to themselves.

[Ozyhibby]

If I lived in England the Libs would get my vote. Not interested in hard left or right.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

LibCons election leaflet

22658

:Ummm:

[heretoday]

Hague maybe?

https://youtu.be/qL_p9qjfu5U

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Correct! And IDS is quite tall. Perhaps his personality is odious. I'd go along with that.

[Future17]

LibCons election leaflet

22658

:Ummm:

Which constituency/area is that from?

[CloudSquall]

Which constituency/area is that from?

I might be wrong but I read Edinburgh West (our very own .net favourite Christine Jardine's stomping ground :greengrin)

Vote breakdown from 2017 was Lib Dem 18k, SNP 15k, Tories 11k, I'm not really sure who they think would move from Lib Dem to Tory, their remain and unionist vote would stay with them rather than move to the Tories.

Edit: It is Edinburgh West, saw a bigger image and the small print confirms it's "Printed, published & promoted on behalf of Christine Jardine’"

[JeMeSouviens]

If I lived in England the Libs would get my vote. Not interested in hard left or right.


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If the Libs didn't exist, most of them would be in Labour and it would shift to be more centrist.

The UK electoral system is built for 2 party politics. If there's 1 party on the right, there needs to be just 1 on the left.

[Moulin Yarns]

Greens standing in every constituency in Edinburgh.

https://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/site/westminster-election-19/

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/WilliamDuguid1/status/1189924021015580673?s=09

[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/WilliamDuguid1/status/1189924021015580673?s=09

I can see where the SNP are coming from in an area I presume isn't too hot on indy, but I think being so "meh" on independence the last time around meant a lot of pro yes voters stayed at home while Ruth got the unionist vote out and the SNP ended up 20 seats down.

[marinello59]

https://twitter.com/WilliamDuguid1/status/1189924021015580673?s=09

That's not a good start. The SNP have to put Independence at the heart of this election so there is no doubt about the mandate for a second referendum.

[Ozyhibby]

That's not a good start. The SNP have to put Independence at the heart of this election so there is no doubt about the mandate for a second referendum.

Doubt that matters. All you ever hear from unionists is that all the SNP talk about is independence. Then when the SNP win they claim the SNP never mentioned independence enough so they have no mandate. No matter the reality, that’s what will be said.


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[weecounty hibby]

That's not a good start. The SNP have to put Independence at the heart of this election so there is no doubt about the mandate for a second referendum.

My constituency and I will be campaigning for the SNP and the main message from me will be about the benefits to be gained from Scotland being an independent nation. Not sure who thought that leaflet is the best way forward

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1189965748116099073

Crack open a bottle of fine wine and sit back for 3 minutes of Trump and Farage on LBC :greengrin.

Not sure how Farage is going to play this election yet.

[Ozyhibby]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1189965748116099073

Crack open a bottle of fine wine and sit back for 3 minutes of Trump and Farage on LBC :greengrin.

Not sure how Farage is going to play this election yet.

Two bit of useful info there. Trump thinks Boris’s deal rules out a trade deal with America and it looks like Farage is going to go after Boris in the election.


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[lapsedhibee]

Two bit of useful info there. Trump thinks Boris’s deal rules out a trade deal with America and it looks like Farage is going to go after Boris in the election.


:drool: Hope so. If he does Ni-gel, Ni-gel will destroy Johnson.

[Jack Hackett]

Hague maybe?

https://youtu.be/qL_p9qjfu5U

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That's the one. Shows how memory plays tricks on you... or that they all just merge into one big ball of slime.

Thanks to the other correctors :greengrin

[Jack Hackett]

Bet there was LOADS of them as well

:faf:

That just cracked me up :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

Greens standing in every constituency in Edinburgh.

https://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/site/westminster-election-19/

And will have my vote :agree:

Nationally I would love to see the Tories punted.

[Glory Lurker]

I'd be quite happy if they all just took November off and started the campaign on 1 December. Six weeks of this.....

[SHODAN]

If Farage and Johnson make a pact then we're ****ed.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bestforbritain.org/getvoting

I posted this link yesterday. It's a tactical voting guide to getting rid of Tories.

Disappointingly, they either don't know their arse from their elbow here or they've bottled it: no recommendations in Scotland. We need to get rid of those 13 Tories and if that means 10 SNP and 3 Lib Dems or whatever, then that's what we should do.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/tactical-voting-could-deliver-remain-victory-in-election-study?__twitter_impression=true

How hard can it be to set up a tactical voting guide? You pick the highest placed 2nd ref/remain party from the last election and that’s who you recommend. The only way to get this wrong is if you have other motives.


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[Ozyhibby]

If Farage and Johnson make a pact then we're ****ed.

Maybe not. Farage is toxic with more centrist voters. Might help the Lib Dem’s v Tories in their marginals.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Vote Conservative, get Trump.


Add “#NotForSale” to that... early days, yet. Tho: https://t.co/uahDc9eTn3

[Ozyhibby]

Vote Conservative, get Trump.


Add “#NotForSale” to that... early days, yet. Tho: https://t.co/uahDc9eTn3

A campaign based on the Tories trading off the nhs to get a trade deal with Trump could be very effective.


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[Moulin Yarns]

A campaign based on the Tories trading off the nhs to get a trade deal with Trump could be very effective.


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It's a very simple and effective message.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/tactical-voting-could-deliver-remain-victory-in-election-study?__twitter_impression=true

How hard can it be to set up a tactical voting guide? You pick the highest placed 2nd ref/remain party from the last election and that’s who you recommend. The only way to get this wrong is if you have other motives.


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They have used a huge sample size poll (46000 I think) to try and estimate the current position at constituency level. This sort of approach did work well in predicting the 2017 election but it's complicated and people don't necessarily believe that the results are possible when big swings have been happening. For instance, most people were v sceptical about the polling that predicted the SNP 2015 surge before the actual results came in.

What you suggest would be much simpler and probably more effective.

[JeMeSouviens]

Farage due to speak in a few mins so we'll find out what he's planning ...

[CloudSquall]

Farage confirms they'll contest every seat if no pact in place.

[Ozyhibby]

Good news. Says he will only do a deal with candidates who reject Boris’s deal. Good news for remain.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Farage confirms they'll contest every seat if no pact in place.

... and no pact unless Johnson ditches his deal.

Nice one Nige!

:partyhibb

[Ozyhibby]

It will be an absolute disgrace if Nigel is not allowed in any debates and not given equal time on the major news networks over the next 6 weeks.[emoji6]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191101/dc02cb86f342c5730dddf25abbcb4281.jpg


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[CloudSquall]

Nigel's inability to avoid the limelight could ironically end Brexit.

[Ozyhibby]

Nigel's inability to avoid the limelight could ironically end Brexit.

That would suit him fine I think. He is only relevant while we are in the EU.


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[southsider]

Nigel's inability to avoid the limelight could ironically end Brexit.

Remember him hiding in the pub in the High Street ?

[GlesgaeHibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191101/dc02cb86f342c5730dddf25abbcb4281.jpg


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Needs to translate into movement in the polls for labour. Tories still making gains according to polls out this week.

[southsider]

Hague maybe?

https://youtu.be/qL_p9qjfu5U

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Aye when every other 16 year old was going to gigs, trying to get served in pubs and chasing their Nat King he makes a speech at a Tory get together. Wee radge then and not changed much.

[Bristolhibby]

That would suit him fine I think. He is only relevant while we are in the EU.


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This. As much as he carps, getting a hefty MEP salary / pension and keeping himself relevant is very important to Farridge.

J

[ronaldo7]

22663

This will do for me.

[Hibbyradge]

This. As much as he carps, getting a hefty MEP salary / pension and keeping himself relevant is very important to Farridge.

J

I don't believe that. He's desperate for us to leave Europe, salary loss or not. He's worth millions and he'll make a lot more with a hard Brexit.

[Scorrie]

It will be an absolute disgrace if Nigel is not allowed in any debates and not given equal time on the major news networks over the next 6 weeks.[emoji6]


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I wouldn’t worry about that! He’ll be on every episode of Question time between now and the election!

[ronaldo7]

I wouldn’t worry about that! He’ll be on every episode of Question time between now and the election!

Isobel oakshot has taken his spot.

[Mibbes Aye]

They have used a huge sample size poll (46000 I think) to try and estimate the current position at constituency level. This sort of approach did work well in predicting the 2017 election but it's complicated and people don't necessarily believe that the results are possible when big swings have been happening. For instance, most people were v sceptical about the polling that predicted the SNP 2015 surge before the actual results came in.

What you suggest would be much simpler and probably more effective.

I recall when the SNP won their Holyrood landslide, John Curtice was predicting a hung parliament. Yet he is held up as some sort of polling god or guru.

I think the last few years have seen a seismic change and I wouldn’t be confident of much from polling.

Ever since 2010 when we ended up with a coalition “that could never happen in Britain” they have been flawed.

[CloudSquall]

Chris Law is being much more direct about independence in his leaflets, but being in the "Yes City" of Dundee it's understandable to go balls to the walls with that strategy :greengrin

https://twitter.com/stevelonie/status/1190223390067609601

[CloudSquall]

ITV is going to have a Boris vs Jeremy debate on Thursday 19th November with a follow up "multi party" debate at a later date.

I know it's going to be either of them as PM in the end but I'm never comfortable with excluding other parties with the risk it can have of swaying voters.

[JeMeSouviens]

ITV is going to have a Boris vs Jeremy debate on Thursday 19th November with a follow up "multi party" debate at a later date.

I know it's going to be either of them as PM in the end but I'm never comfortable with excluding other parties with the risk it can have of swaying voters.

The SNP and Libs will be raging. Especially the Libs with them being so close in the polls. I wonder what the law says about broadcasting time and so on?

[CloudSquall]

Bit of backlash now regarding the Greens standing in more than 20 seats (so far).

Pete Wishart (SNP) isn't happy, he has a majority of 21, last election Greens didn't run but took over 1000 votes in the election before that.

I usually like to see as many parties as possible run but they have no chance of winning any seat north of the border in this FPTP system and could in the end save a few seats for the Tories..

[marinello59]

Bit of backlash now regarding the Greens standing in more than 20 seats (so far).

Pete Wishart (SNP) isn't happy, he has a majority of 21, last election Greens didn't run but took over 1000 votes in the election before that.

I usually like to see as many parties as possible run but they have no chance of winning any seat north of the border in this FPTP system and could in the end save a few seats for the Tories..

Why would there be a backlash? And by who? Surely an elected politician doesn’t think somebody else standing against him is some sort of skullduggery? :confused:

[Moulin Yarns]

Bit of backlash now regarding the Greens standing in more than 20 seats (so far).

Pete Wishart (SNP) isn't happy, he has a majority of 21, last election Greens didn't run but took over 1000 votes in the election before that.

I usually like to see as many parties as possible run but they have no chance of winning any seat north of the border in this FPTP system and could in the end save a few seats for the Tories..

I know I should know who, but who is the green candidate in Perth and North perthshire? That is my constituency.

[marinello59]

I know I should know who, but who is the green candidate in Perth and North perthshire? That is my constituency.

It could be you . They’ll tell you later. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

It could be you . They’ll tell you later. :greengrin

🤔😂

[Ozyhibby]

Bit of backlash now regarding the Greens standing in more than 20 seats (so far).

Pete Wishart (SNP) isn't happy, he has a majority of 21, last election Greens didn't run but took over 1000 votes in the election before that.

I usually like to see as many parties as possible run but they have no chance of winning any seat north of the border in this FPTP system and could in the end save a few seats for the Tories..

I’m considering giving my 2nd vote to the greens at the next holyrood election. If they cost the SNP a single seat next month they can forget that.


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[CloudSquall]

Why would there be a backlash? And by who? Surely an elected politician doesn’t think somebody else standing against him is some sort of skullduggery? :confused:

SNP MPs (or potential ones) who are at risk of losing out to Tories / Lib Dems by people voting for Greens instead.


I don't think they believe it's skullduggery, more asking what's the point, they don't stand a chance of winning and could open the door to the Tories / Lib Dems.

[Mibbes Aye]

SNP MPs (or potential ones) who are at risk of losing out to Tories / Lib Dems by people voting for Greens instead.


I don't think they believe it's skullduggery, more asking what's the point, they don't stand a chance of winning and could open the door to the Tories / Lib Dems.

Democracy.

Who would have thunk...

[marinello59]

SNP MPs (or potential ones) who are at risk of losing out to Tories / Lib Dems by people voting for Greens instead.


I don't think they believe it's skullduggery, more asking what's the point, they don't stand a chance of winning and could open the door to the Tories / Lib Dems.

So they think the Greens should just act like a branch of the SNP? That’s going to go down well with Green Party members. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

So they think the Greens should just act like a branch of the SNP? That’s going to go down well with Green Party members. :greengrin

If they were standing 59 candidates then it’s no problem. All is fair in love and war. That’s democracy. But if they are only standing 20 and in areas that target SNP marginals then that is aggressive towards the SNP and in the spirit of all’s fair in love and war I think SNP voters might think carefully before lending the greens their 2nd vote come the holyrood elections.
I’m sure Tories will thank them by lending them their 2nd votes instead.[emoji849]


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[Bristolhibby]

Democracy.

Who would have thunk...

It’s only really a democracy when we get rid of this ridiculous FPTP system.

For example in Chippenham I can’t vote Labour, its a straight shootout between the Tories and Lib Dems.

Crazily the Euro elections are the most representative as my vote is lumped into the South West PR vote.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

So they think the Greens should just act like a branch of the SNP? That’s going to go down well with Green Party members. :greengrin


👍

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75316032_3133425273339419_3087155525234720768_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQlulttL0tHGSZ4mUovBQPkCliVSMtk9n03r48KFYS1 k0bzJjggB16G75ivc-u3--Ew&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=bab8df1c44bae5161917d8a000ec5790&oe=5E58379A



oh my :eyes:

[CloudSquall]

So they think the Greens should just act like a branch of the SNP? That’s going to go down well with Green Party members. :greengrin

Well, ideally yes :greengrin

I think it's the problem with the FPTP system, it's going to throw up issues like this.

The current Tory MP in the Stirling seat for example is against gay marriage, do the Greens really want to risk having him still in the seat boosting Boris' numbers instead of the SNP's Alyn Smith (very pro European, pro-action on climate change)?

[marinello59]

Only two days in to the campaign and already we have had -

SNP supporter complaints that hearsay suggests that Labour and the Tories are going to stand aside and let the LibDems have a clear run at Blackford in Skye. (It's no fair.)

Complaints from SNP supporters because Jo Swinson is apparently open to the idea of talking to Plaid Cymru but not to them. (It's no fair.)

And my personal favourite, a diddy party like the Greens has the audacity to actually consider putting up candidates against the SNP. There's even a claim that Pete Wishart ain't pleased. :greengrin (It's no fair.)

All at a time when the SNP is heading for a landslide win in Scotland, my vote included. You could almost feel sorry for them. :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Only two days in to the campaign and already we have had -

SNP supporter complaints that hearsay suggests that Labour and the Tories are going to stand aside and let the LibDems have a clear run at Blackford in Skye. (It's no fair.)

Complaints from SNP supporters because Jo Swinson is apparently open to the idea of talking to Plaid Cymru but not to them. (It's no fair.)

And my personal favourite, a diddy party like the Greens has the audacity to actually consider putting up candidates against the SNP. There's even a claim that Pete Wishart ain't pleased. :greengrin (It's no fair.)

All at a time when the SNP is heading for a landslide win in Scotland, my vote included. You could almost feel sorry for them. :greengrin

To be fair to all those SNP supporters, they're only reflecting what's out there in the MSM, "the times" included, and which hasn't been denied (blackford).

FWIW they can get on with it for me, I'll keep this post in mind when we move forward to 2021, when wings comes along to stand on the list only.

The tables will flip on here.

👍

[marinello59]

To be fair to all those SNP supporters, they're only reflecting what's out there in the MSM, "the times" included, and which hasn't been denied (blackford).

FWIW they can get on with it for me, I'll keep this post in mind when we move forward to 2021, when wings comes along to stand on the list only.

The tables will flip on here.

👍

You’ll keep this post in mind? The tables will flip? I think you are taking my post far more seriously than it was intended. :faf:

[ronaldo7]

You’ll keep this post in mind? The tables will flip? I think you are taking my post far more seriously than it was intended. :faf:

Not at all. Just a wee reminder for a couple of posters. 👍

[marinello59]

Not at all. Just a wee reminder for a couple of posters. 👍

Lighten up man. Life’s too short. :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Lighten up man. Life’s too short. :greengrin

I agree, I need to shed a few pounds, but that's below the belt.

[marinello59]

I agree, I need to shed a few pounds, but that's below the belt.

:faf:

[marinello59]

Who needs the mainstream media? :greengrin

https://newsthump.com/2019/10/31/jo-swinsons-parents-proudly-stick-liberal-democrat-manifesto-to-fridge-door/

[CloudSquall]

In my defence if years of supporting Hibs has taught me anything it's that it's never good to go into match day as favourites :greengrin

[Cataplana]

Its already looking like Harry Hill is going to have to set up a fight so that some people can resolve their differences.

[cabbageandribs1875]

andrew neil asking jo swinson why she thinks she will be PM, she's one helluva dreamer


https://www.facebook.com/TheDailyPolitik/videos/421880115173475/UzpfSTE2MDk4Mzc3MDg6MTAyMTQzNzg0NjA2NDc5MTc/

she's standing as a candidate to be prime minister lol

[Green Man]

I know I should know who, but who is the green candidate in Perth and North perthshire? That is my constituency.

The candidate hasn’t been selected yet.

I can see why the SNP might be worried about the Greens taking votes from them, but maybe instead of complaining they should look at the reasons why people would vote Green instead of SNP. The Greens have a far bigger commitment to the environment than the SNP, and that’s a big issue for some people.

[Fife-Hibee]

The candidate hasn’t been selected yet.

I can see why the SNP might be worried about the Greens taking votes from them, but maybe instead of complaining they should look at the reasons why people would vote Green instead of SNP. The Greens have a far bigger commitment to the environment than the SNP, and that’s a big issue for some people.

There are also SNP voters who aren't happy with the SNP taking on Green Party policies. It's not as simple as taking their policies on board.

[Cataplana]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75316032_3133425273339419_3087155525234720768_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQlulttL0tHGSZ4mUovBQPkCliVSMtk9n03r48KFYS1 k0bzJjggB16G75ivc-u3--Ew&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=bab8df1c44bae5161917d8a000ec5790&oe=5E58379A



oh my :eyes:

Somebody is pressing her buttons, and she is lapping it all up. Another Kez - zero self awareness.





I can see why the SNP might be worried about the Greens taking votes from them, but maybe instead of complaining they should look at the reasons why people would vote Green instead of SNP. The Greens have a far bigger commitment to the environment than the SNP, and that’s a big issue for some people.

These single issue parties, eh?

[Hibrandenburg]

Farage now making an appeal to the traditional socialist strongholds of Northern England and encouraging them to come out in numbers and vote for eeeerm..... national socialism.

[JeMeSouviens]

Sinn Fein and the SDLP in unofficial nod and a wink pact.

The SDLP stand aside for Sinn Fein in North Belfast.
Sinn Fein stand aside for SDLP in South Belfast.
Both stand aside for independent pro-Remain Unionist Lady Sylvia Hermon in North Down.
Both stand aside for Alliance's Naomi Long in East Belfast.

[Fife-Hibee]

Farage now making an appeal to the traditional socialist strongholds of Northern England and encouraging them to come out in numbers and vote for eeeerm..... national socialism.

Got to hand it to Farage. He's the only national nhs privatizing profiteering socialist banker you could ever have the misfortune of stumbling across.

[lapsedhibee]

Sinn Fein and the SDLP in unofficial nod and a wink pact.

The SDLP stand aside for Sinn Fein in North Belfast.
Sinn Fein stand aside for SDLP in South Belfast.
Both stand aside for independent pro-Remain Unionist Lady Sylvia Hermon in North Down.
Both stand aside for Alliance's Naomi Long in East Belfast.
Hope that one in particular works out. Could conceivably kick-start something quite good in Norniron.

[Cataplana]

Sinn Fein and the SDLP in unofficial nod and a wink pact.

The SDLP stand aside for Sinn Fein in North Belfast.
Sinn Fein stand aside for SDLP in South Belfast.
Both stand aside for independent pro-Remain Unionist Lady Sylvia Hermon in North Down.
Both stand aside for Alliance's Naomi Long in East Belfast.

Why don't Sinn Fein stand aside for SDLP in all seats?

[lapsedhibee]

Why don't Sinn Fein stand aside for SDLP in all seats?

Because they're trying to gang up on the DUP, not obliterate themselves in NI?

[Fife-Hibee]

Why don't Sinn Fein stand aside for SDLP in all seats?

The same reason the SDLP won't stand aside for Sinn Fein in all seats? :dunno:

[Colr]

Tories haven’t really got out of the traps yet. Maybe as crap a campaign as under May!

[Fife-Hibee]

SNP (3rd largest party in the UK) getting white washed from yet another "debate".

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74307981_453500625523168_6520618979420012544_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQmxFkC4OZJI6T9zln6TQVDb-C53Qqf6TzosjEOJkd-eSQQZh9mLwi7tG51srUN_JMg&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=1473570e7f9e4ce6b175f6ca683d1fe1&oe=5E4D21E5

What are the establishment so fearful of?

[Ozyhibby]

Tories haven’t really got out of the traps yet. Maybe as crap a campaign as under May!

If Labour can talk about NHS for 6 weeks and keep letting the Brexit Party attack Johnson then it might tighten up enough for a hung parliament.
SNP need to keep doing what they are doing. Getting shut out a debate probably helps them. It shows that mp’s elected here count for less than mp’s elected in England.


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[Ozyhibby]

Lib Dem’s, PC and Greens doing a 50 seat pact where they stand down candidates to help each other win seats from Tories.


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[Colr]

Lib Dem’s, PC and Greens doing a 50 seat pact where they stand down candidates to help each other win seats from Tories.


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And Labour? LibDems are polling well in the capital.

[Bristolhibby]

Lib Dem’s, PC and Greens doing a 50 seat pact where they stand down candidates to help each other win seats from Tories.


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Are we going to see the same in Scotland?

Are the Greens in on this?

J

[marinello59]

SNP (3rd largest party in the UK) getting white washed from yet another "debate".

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74307981_453500625523168_6520618979420012544_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQmxFkC4OZJI6T9zln6TQVDb-C53Qqf6TzosjEOJkd-eSQQZh9mLwi7tG51srUN_JMg&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=1473570e7f9e4ce6b175f6ca683d1fe1&oe=5E4D21E5

What are the establishment so fearful of?

Sky only invited Swinson after her attacks on ITV for excluding her. Love her or loathe her she has played this one well and if she performs as well as she has been doing in the Commons recently she will pick up a lot of votes.
I suspect Sturgeon will be secretly pleased to be excluded, it sends out the message that Scotland is already a different country fighting a different campaign from the rest of the UK. It looks like a bonus for the SNP to me.

[Ozyhibby]

Tories hiding report on Russian interference in elections.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-50294569?__twitter_impression=true



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[Hibrandenburg]

Tories hiding report on Russian interference in elections.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-50294569?__twitter_impression=true



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So let me get this right. Boris Johnson is an unelected PM of a leave government that has been found guilty of manipulating a leave referendum vote and is now postponing the publication of a report into cheating in a national vote until after a national vote?

Just another grievance, nothing to see here, move along now.

[Moulin Yarns]

It could be you . They’ll tell you later. :greengrin

Green candidate for Perth and North perthshire is ex snp councillor Elspeth Maclachlan. It might make the difference between Pete wishart keeping the seat for the snp or gifting it to the tories.

[lapsedhibee]

Green candidate for Perth and North perthshire is ex snp councillor Elspeth Maclachlan. It might make the difference between Pete wishart keeping the seat for the snp or gifting it to the tories.

You might almost be hinting that FPTP is not an ideal electoral arrangement for a four- or five-party system. :dunno:

[CloudSquall]

I would like to see the Greens rational behind agreeing to a "Remainers pact" with the Lib Dems / Plaid down south while putting up candidates against the SNP in Scottish seats where the Tories could get in.

[Mr Grieves]

I would like to see the Greens rational behind agreeing to a "Remainers pact" with the Lib Dems / Plaid down south while putting up candidates against the SNP in Scottish seats where the Tories could get in.

The Scottish greens are a different party.

[SHODAN]

The ****ing Lib Dems are going to let the Tories in. AGAIN.

[Bristolhibby]

You might almost be hinting that FPTP is not an ideal electoral arrangement for a four- or five-party system. :dunno:

This is so apparent. Voter reform is an necessity.

Unfortunately turkeys for Christmas springs to mind.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

This is so apparent. Voter reform is an necessity.

Unfortunately turkeys for Christmas springs to mind.

J

We had a referendum in 2011 to change to a form of proportional representation and the result was 68% no

[Fife-Hibee]

Sky only invited Swinson after her attacks on ITV for excluding her. Love her or loathe her she has played this one well and if she performs as well as she has been doing in the Commons recently she will pick up a lot of votes.
I suspect Sturgeon will be secretly pleased to be excluded, it sends out the message that Scotland is already a different country fighting a different campaign from the rest of the UK. It looks like a bonus for the SNP to me.

Yeah, except the SNP can't get the message across that they're fighting a different campaign if they're not getting the media representation to present that message to the electorate...

[Ozyhibby]

This is so apparent. Voter reform is an necessity.

Unfortunately turkeys for Christmas springs to mind.

J

There are arguments for both systems. I like the fact that there is one person who represents my area. Also how do you take into account local parties? The SNP, DUP, SDLP, independents would all lose out. A popular independent MP would lose his seat because he is not tied to a party.
And how do you get rid of an unpopular mp who is protected by being high up on the parties list system?
Even with the Holyrood set up which is a hybrid of both, if Ruth Davidson’s constituents wanted to get rid of her as it appears she has switched her focus to lining her own pockets then they can’t because she is number one on the national Tory list system.
FPTP is not perfect but I still prefer it.


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[JeMeSouviens]

We had a referendum in 2011 to change to a form of proportional representation and the result was 68% no

Alternative Vote is not proportional. It's more of a tweak than a proper reform and the Libs were extremely weak in accepting it as part of their coalition sell out.

[JeMeSouviens]

There are arguments for both systems. I like the fact that there is one person who represents my area. Also how do you take into account local parties? The SNP, DUP, SDLP, independents would all lose out. A popular independent MP would lose his seat because he is not tied to a party.
And how do you get rid of an unpopular mp who is protected by being high up on the parties list system?
Even with the Holyrood set up which is a hybrid of both, if Ruth Davidson’s constituents wanted to get rid of her as it appears she has switched her focus to lining her own pockets then they can’t because she is number one on the national Tory list system.
FPTP is not perfect but I still prefer it.


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I think multi-member STV as used in both the NI assembly and Ireland's Dail is the best compromise.

[marinello59]

The ****ing Lib Dems are going to let the Tories in. AGAIN.

If the Tories win it's Labour to blame, not the LibDems. They've been up against a shambolic split Governing party for several years now and should be miles ahead in the opinion polls.

[cabbageandribs1875]

just watching sky news from westminster the now, it's pretty empty, thornberry is up talking asking about the russian report, two tories opposite her just sitting with their heads bowed playing away on their mobile phones, what a den of ******** rudeness westminster is

[marinello59]

Green candidate for Perth and North perthshire is ex snp councillor Elspeth Maclachlan. It might make the difference between Pete wishart keeping the seat for the snp or gifting it to the tories.

That's down to Pete Wishart to face the challenge facing him then. I'm sure he will.

[Fife-Hibee]

If the Tories win it's Labour to blame, not the LibDems. They've been up against a shambolic split Governing party for several years now and should be miles ahead in the opinion polls.

If the tories win an all out majority (which they will). Expect a lot of peerages to crop up for Jo Swinson and her cronies.

[Smartie]

We had a referendum in 2011 to change to a form of proportional representation and the result was 68% no

It is quite interesting that this doesn't get spoken about more.

The LibDems shelved quite a lot of principle in an attempt to address this issue (they got this referendum as part of an agreement to make up the coalition government).

Everyone remembers the tuition fees, nobody remember that they got the referendum and that it was effectively kicked into touch.

I wonder where we might be today politically had there been a different result in that referendum?

[lapsedhibee]

I wonder where we might be today politically had there been a different result in that referendum?

We'd be watching fist fights on Parliament TV as Farage and Francois square up to each other to prove who's the most pure Brexity.

[JeMeSouviens]

It is quite interesting that this doesn't get spoken about more.

The LibDems shelved quite a lot of principle in an attempt to address this issue (they got this referendum as part of an agreement to make up the coalition government).

Everyone remembers the tuition fees, nobody remember that they got the referendum and that it was effectively kicked into touch.

I wonder where we might be today politically had there been a different result in that referendum?

Pretty much in the same place.

Once again, AV is not proportional.

[Fife-Hibee]

I wonder where we might be today politically had there been a different result in that referendum?

In terms of Scotland, we'd be a lot worse off.

[Colr]

And Labour? LibDems are polling well in the capital.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/uk-opinion-polls-labour-s-london-lead-is-halved-as-it-s-all-to-play-for-in-capital-a4279016.html

[Frankhfc]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/uk-opinion-polls-labour-s-london-lead-is-halved-as-it-s-all-to-play-for-in-capital-a4279016.html

This poll finding is indicative of labour malaise across England and Wales. Personally speaking I think Labour will struggle everywhere even across their strongholds after a dire year of Brexit fence sitting. A party in chaos unfortunately as I don't want to see the tories gain a majority and hope that the anti Brexit Lib Dems are the main beneficiaries.

[Ozyhibby]

This poll finding is indicative of labour malaise across England and Wales. Personally speaking I think Labour will struggle everywhere even across their strongholds after a dire year of Brexit fence sitting. A party in chaos unfortunately as I don't want to see the tories gain a majority and hope that the anti Brexit Lib Dems are the main beneficiaries.

Corbyn terrifies a lot of people, there is no getting away from it.
He has a decent base who support him but it’s not enough to win an election.



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[heretoday]

I think Labour will do well. Corbyn comes across as more genuine than Johnson or Swinson anyway.

[Fife-Hibee]

Corbyn terrifies a lot of people, there is no getting away from it.
He has a decent base who support him but it’s not enough to win an election.



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Same with the Lib Dems.

So a tory landslide it is.

[Ozyhibby]

Same with the Lib Dems.

So a tory landslide it is.

I wouldn’t say landslide because the Tories are a deeply unpopular govt who have a massive track record of failure.
Which shows just how unpopular Corbyn is.


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[Ozyhibby]

I think Labour will do well. Corbyn comes across as more genuine than Johnson or Swinson anyway.

It’s not how he come across that worries people. It’s the return to socialism that scares people. People don’t really want to see industry re-nationalised. They definitely don’t want their property confiscated or their kids school shut down. Fact is, when it comes down to it they would rather risk brexit than risk Corbyn.


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[Fife-Hibee]

I wouldn’t say landslide because the Tories are a deeply unpopular govt who have a massive track record of failure.
Which shows just how unpopular Corbyn is.


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They're not unpopular though. They're unpopular in Scotland. But they're not unpopular. Unpopular parties don't get 40%+ in polls.

[marinello59]

I wouldn’t say landslide because the Tories are a deeply unpopular govt who have a massive track record of failure.
Which shows just how unpopular Corbyn is.


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A half decent opposition would have had this election won already. Sadly Corbyn's Labour have fallen well short of that. He had the youth vote last time round, I suspect he has blown that now with his dithering over Brexit.

[Fife-Hibee]

It’s not how he come across that worries people. It’s the return to socialism that scares people. People don’t really want to see industry re-nationalised. They definitely don’t want their property confiscated or their kids school shut down. Fact is, when it comes down to it they would rather risk brexit than risk Corbyn.


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Where is your evidence that Labour have any plans to confiscate people's properties or to shut down schools? :confused:

No offense, but that's taken straight out of a tory campaign leaflet.

[Ozyhibby]

Where is your evidence that Labour have any plans to confiscate people's properties or to shut down schools? :confused:

No offense, but that's taken straight out of a tory campaign leaflet.

Pretty sure Labour conference recently agreed that tenants should have the right to buy their landlords private property at price set by govt? And did they not also agree to close private schools and sell off their assets?


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[Fife-Hibee]

Pretty sure Labour conference recently agreed that tenants should have the right to buy their landlords private property at price set by govt? And did they not also agree to close private schools and sell off their assets?

The proposal was to give tenants the opportunity to buy out rented property from landlords who own and rent a large number of homes. The proposal for private schools is to integrate them into the public sector, not to sell off the assets. Although it is just a proposal and not commited party policy.

[Ozyhibby]

The proposal was to give tenants the opportunity to buy out rented property from landlords who own and rent a large number of homes. The proposal for private schools is to integrate them into the public sector, not to sell off the assets. Although it is just a proposal and not commited party policy.

You can see why that might scare people though? What is a large number of properties? 2?
And it can be taken for granted the people who send their kids to private school don’t want them integrated into the public sector. 7% of kids are educated privately. They mostly have two parents and grandparents, aunts uncles etc who would not wish for the kids school to close. And the proposal was for the endowments of the schools to be redistributed.
They have similar respect for private property to communist regimes of the past and that is a hard sell to people who value what property they have.


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[Fife-Hibee]

You can see why that might scare people though? What is a large number of properties? 2?
And it can be taken for granted the people who send their kids to private school don’t want them integrated into the public sector. 7% of kids are educated privately. They mostly have two parents and grandparents, aunts uncles etc who would not wish for the kids school to close. And the proposal was for the endowments of the schools to be redistributed.
They have similar respect for private property to communist regimes of the past and that is a hard sell to people who value what property they have.


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7% of parents with kids have them educated privately, which means 93% don't.
20% of UK households are rented privately, which means 80% are not.

Do you honestly expect the Labour Party to pander to the private sector to the detriment of the public sector?

Some people might find their policies scary, but there are certainly plenty of people out there who find tory policies scary. Regardless of which party you are and what you're campaigning for, you're always going to scare some groups of people.

Labour scaring private landlords and owners of schools for the privileged doesn't worry me in the slightest. Neither applies to me.

[Frankhfc]

A half decent opposition would have had this election won already. Sadly Corbyn's Labour have fallen well short of that. He had the youth vote last time round, I suspect he has blown that now with his dithering over Brexit.

Exactly this.

It was risibly embarrassing when forced into saying they'd both negotiate another deal with the EU then attempt to persuade people to vote against it in a second referendum. Brexit will have a profound effect on this GE despite Labour desperately trying to shift the debate. Hoping the other progressive parties benefit and not the tories.

[marinello59]

7% of parents with kids have them educated privately, which means 93% don't.
20% of UK households are rented privately, which means 80% are not.

Do you honestly expect the Labour Party to pander to the private sector to the detriment of the public sector?

Some people might find their policies scary, but there are certainly plenty of people out there who find tory policies scary. Regardless of which party you are and what you're campaigning for, you're always going to scare some groups of people.

Labour scaring private landlords and owners of schools for the privileged doesn't worry me in the slightest. Neither applies to me.

:agree:
I have no problem with either of those policies. Tory policies will do a lot more harm to a lot more people than either of these ideas. (Which as you rightly say are just under discussion at the present time.and will not be in Labour's manifesto) .

[Fife-Hibee]

:agree:
I have no problem with either of those policies. Tory policies will do a lot more harm to a lot more people than either of these ideas. (Which as you rightly say are just under discussion at the present time.and will not be in Labour's manifesto) .

:aok:

Besides, what votes are Labour really going to lose out on through such proposals?

Can't say I know too many private landlords with a multitude of properties or too many parents sending their kids to top prep schools who have ever really considered voting for the Labour Party.

[lapsedhibee]

Exactly this.

It was risibly embarrassing when forced into saying they'd both negotiate another deal with the EU then attempt to persuade people to vote against it in a second referendum. Brexit will have a profound effect on this GE despite Labour desperately trying to shift the debate. Hoping the other progressive parties benefit and not the tories.

Did the Labour Party actually say that, or was that the spin that Brexity folk put on it? :dunno:

Some individual Labour MPs said they would vote to remain, but that's different to what you're claiming.

[Ozyhibby]

:agree:
I have no problem with either of those policies. Tory policies will do a lot more harm to a lot more people than either of these ideas. (Which as you rightly say are just under discussion at the present time.and will not be in Labour's manifesto) .


:aok:

Besides, what votes are Labour really going to lose out on through such proposals?

Can't say I know too many private landlords with a multitude of properties or too many parents sending their kids to top prep schools who have ever really considered voting for the Labour Party.

And yet the Labour Party is languishing in the low 20’s in the polls against this Tory govt. Clearly there are people out there not keen on these policies.
Obviously you think it doesn’t affect you (erosion of property rights will affect everyone eventually) but that does not make it a good idea.


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[Colr]

We had a referendum in 2011 to change to a form of proportional representation and the result was 68% no

I would vote differently if they had that one again.

However, wholesale reform is needed.

[Colr]

I think Labour will do well. Corbyn comes across as more genuine than Johnson or Swinson anyway.

Take it you're not Jewish, then.

[Pete]

:aok:

Besides, what votes are Labour really going to lose out on through such proposals?

Can't say I know too many private landlords with a multitude of properties or too many parents sending their kids to top prep schools who have ever really considered voting for the Labour Party.

They certainly won't vote for Corbyn's Labour which they try and portray as swivel-eyed communists.

It won't work. Inequalities will reach such a level that it will become glaringly obvious that something needs to change

[Colr]

I wouldn’t say landslide because the Tories are a deeply unpopular govt who have a massive track record of failure.
Which shows just how unpopular Corbyn is.


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They're also pitching to the extremes which may put a lot of One Nation Tories off. Not enough to vote Corbyn though, who is the other extreme.

[Fife-Hibee]

And yet the Labour Party is languishing in the low 20’s in the polls against this Tory govt. Clearly there are people out there not keen on these policies.
Obviously you think it doesn’t affect you (erosion of property rights will affect everyone eventually) but that does not make it a good idea.


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You think they're in the low 20's because they're scaring people who would never consider voting anything other than conservative anyway?

Erosion of what right? The right to buy up hundreds of properties and charge overinflated rent? Landlords should either be limited to the amount of properties they can own and rent out, or there should be a cap in place to stop them charging extortionate rent rates for people who are desperate for a roof over their heads.

[Fife-Hibee]

Take it you're not Jewish, then.

What's that got to do with anything? Are you suggesting that no jewish people will be voting for Labour in this election?

Not all jews are duped by the anti-semitism myth.

[Frankhfc]

Did the Labour Party actually say that, or was that the spin that Brexity folk put on it? :dunno:

Some individual Labour MPs said they would vote to remain, but that's different to what you're claiming.

I recall Emily Thornberry more or less stating that was the case on Question Time a few months ago.

I don't let myself be swayed by Brexity folk.

[Ozyhibby]

You think they're in the low 20's because they're scaring people who would never consider voting anything other than conservative anyway?

Erosion of what right? The right to buy up hundreds of properties and charge overinflated rent? Landlords should either be limited to the amount of properties they can own and rent out, or there should be a cap in place to stop them charging extortionate rent rates for people who are desperate for a roof over their heads.

Prices are going up because we are not building enough houses. Demand is rising due to the massive increase in Edinburgh’s population which increases competition for property. Until they free up the planning system and allow more house building then it will continue.
Landlords don’t really set prices, they accept them. The market sets them. There are plenty places in Britain where rents haven’t gone up in years.


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[Pete]

Erosion of what right? The right to buy up hundreds of properties and charge overinflated rent? Landlords should either be limited to the amount of properties they can own and rent out, or there should be a cap in place to stop them charging extortionate rent rates for people who are desperate for a roof over their heads.

10/10

We need to shift away from seeing shelter in primarily economic terms

[lapsedhibee]

I recall Emily Thornberry more or less stating that was the case on Question Time a few months ago.

When she gets a bit carried away she does tend to blur her personal opinion with party policy. Don't think it's ever been anything other than a personal goal though.

Labour's front bench isn't good.

[Frankhfc]

When she gets a bit carried away she does tend to blur her personal opinion with party policy. Don't think it's ever been anything other than a personal goal though.

Labour's front bench isn't good.

:top marks

Hopefully the other progressive parties pick up the seats Labour will lose instead of the tories.

[Fife-Hibee]

Prices are going up because we are not building enough houses. Demand is rising due to the massive increase in Edinburgh’s population which increases competition for property. Until they free up the planning system and allow more house building then it will continue.
Landlords don’t really set prices, they accept them. The market sets them. There are plenty places in Britain where rents haven’t gone up in years.


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I would argue that the lack of social housing sets the market value for private rented properties. People will pay just about anything these days just so they can have the basic human right of a roof over their heads. Private landlords are taking full advantage of that desperation and a Conservative Government and their opposition to social housing and rent capping is allowing them to do so. If rent isn't rising in certain places, it's because they're already squeezing every penny they can out of the people living there.

[Fife-Hibee]

:top marks

Hopefully the other progressive parties pick up the seats Labour will lose instead of the tories.

They won't though. Because it'll simply be split between those "progressive" parties and Labour, paving the way for more Tory MPs.

[Frankhfc]

They won't though. Because it'll simply be split between those "progressive" parties and Labour, paving the way for more Tory MPs.

A genuine concern.

Labour have been worse than useless on Brexit which was the number one issue for the last few years. We can only hope voters decide letting in a tory is too bitter a pill to swallow.

[lapsedhibee]

They won't though. Because it'll simply be split between those "progressive" parties and Labour, paving the way for more Tory MPs.

Chin up man. Fully five weeks to go, plenty of time for Johnson and Rees-Mogg to make (further) ****s of themselves in public.

[Ozyhibby]

I would argue that the lack of social housing sets the market value for private rented properties. People will pay just about anything these days just so they can have the basic human right of a roof over their heads. Private landlords are taking full advantage of that desperation and a Conservative Government and their opposition to social housing and rent capping is allowing them to do so. If rent isn't rising in certain places, it's because they're already squeezing every penny they can out of the people living there.

Lack of housing is correct. Doesn’t matter who owns it but I’m all for the council building more if they want to. To get prices to fall you either need to increase supply or suppress demand.
As for your last sentence, it’s nonsense. When rent prices are stagnant it’s because population growth is stagnant or more houses are being built than are needed. It’s rarely the latter.


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[Fife-Hibee]

Chin up man. Fully five weeks to go, plenty of time for Johnson and Rees-Mogg to make (further) ****s of themselves in public.

Problem is, the more they make a mockery of themselves, the more "popular" they become. UK politics is very quickly turning into the US circus show.

[StevieC]

I know I should know who, but who is the green candidate in Perth and North perthshire? That is my constituency.

It’s former SNP councillor Elspeth Maclaughlan.
She was deselected at the last council elections (for very good reasons imo), and has been grinding an axe ever since. She ran as an Independent for the council elections, but has since got in tow with the Greens. I suspect she will also be the Greens candidate for the next Holyrood election, and then the council elections, until such time as she gets elected.

[Colr]

Where is your evidence that Labour have any plans to confiscate people's properties or to shut down schools? :confused:

No offense, but that's taken straight out of a tory campaign leaflet.

They said they’ll shut down private schools.

[Cataplana]

They said they’ll shut down private schools.

Shut them down, or move them to the State System.

[Colr]

What's that got to do with anything? Are you suggesting that no jewish people will be voting for Labour in this election?

Not all jews are duped by the anti-semitism myth.

20% of the jews in the UK live in Barnet have a look at what's happened to Labour's vote there.

[Colr]

Prices are going up because we are not building enough houses. Demand is rising due to the massive increase in Edinburgh’s population which increases competition for property. Until they free up the planning system and allow more house building then it will continue.
Landlords don’t really set prices, they accept them. The market sets them. There are plenty places in Britain where rents haven’t gone up in years.


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Prices went up largely because of the low cost of borrowing including lending to buy-to-let landlords. Supply and demand is a factor as well but cheap money was the main driver. Read Toby Lloyd on this.

[Fife-Hibee]

20% of the jews in the UK live in Barnet have a look at what's happened to Labour's vote there.

Same could be said for areas where there are next to no jewish population. Now all jewish people living in the UK are taking orders from the zionist apartheid Government in Israel.

[Hibrandenburg]

Nazis all but in name.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/05/brexit-party-candidate-says-animal-testing-done-remainers-instead-11045172/?ito=social

[Just Alf]

With regards to housing, the current UK government certainly haven't gone out their way to help it seems......


None of pledged starter homes built, says watchdog -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50296672

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[lapsedhibee]

Tories haven’t really got out of the traps yet. Maybe as crap a campaign as under May!

Jacob Rees-Mogg: I think I may have said the worst thing possible about Grenfell.

Andrew Bridgen: Hold my sherry.

(David Schneider)

[Hibrandenburg]

Jacob Rees-Mogg: I think I may have said the worst thing possible about Grenfell.

Andrew Bridgen: Hold my sherry.

(David Schneider)

They're all ****ing nuts and have completely lost the plot. Amazingly though, they speak for a lot of people who are equally nuts.

[ronaldo7]

Jacob Rees-Mogg: I think I may have said the worst thing possible about Grenfell.

Andrew Bridgen: Hold my sherry.

(David Schneider)

I will re-house all the Grenfell victims in three weeks. Theresa May.

#stillwaiting

[Moulin Yarns]

It’s former SNP councillor Elspeth Maclaughlan.
She was deselected at the last council elections (for very good reasons imo), and has been grinding an axe ever since. She ran as an Independent for the council elections, but has since got in tow with the Greens. I suspect she will also be the Greens candidate for the next Holyrood election, and then the council elections, until such time as she gets elected.

Hi Stevie. I discovered she was the candidate yesterday and to be honest I think the Perth branch has made a mistake.

I don't think Pete wishart is a great mp but it's a straight forward snp or tory seat so I imagine the libdems and Labour voters will be voting tory again to try and oust wishart. Which means any indy supporters in Perth and North perthshire need to do the same and vote snp.

[Colr]

With regards to housing, the current UK government certainly haven't gone out their way to help it seems......


None of pledged starter homes built, says watchdog -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50296672

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That was a ****** dumb policy. Nobody knew how it was supposed to work and hardly any local authorities put planning policies in place to allow it.

The whole idea was ignored from day one. I can’t believe they consulted the industry about it. Cameron must have dreamt it up on the hoof.

[StevieC]

Hi Stevie. I discovered she was the candidate yesterday and to be honest I think the Perth branch has made a mistake.

I don't think Pete wishart is a great mp but it's a straight forward snp or tory seat so I imagine the libdems and Labour voters will be voting tory again to try and oust wishart. Which means any indy supporters in Perth and North perthshire need to do the same and vote snp.

Someone said today that it wasn’t official yet, and there was talk of emails coming in from Green Party members saying not to field a candidate.
I guess they realise what is at stake and don’t fancy the idea of a Tory MP for the area.

[StevieC]

Hi Stevie. I discovered she was the candidate yesterday and to be honest I think the Perth branch has made a mistake.

Two quotes from two different sources ...

“The news article was premature and no decision has been made about a Green candidate standing.
Majority of Green members surveyed via email (so far) have indicated they do not want a candidate to stand against SNP”

“There is a very strong possibility that the Green candidate will not be standing in Perth. The membership are not happy. I’ll be able to tell you more tomorrow night. I also understand that the Brexit party have a candidate lined up.”

[lord bunberry]

Hi Stevie. I discovered she was the candidate yesterday and to be honest I think the Perth branch has made a mistake.

I don't think Pete wishart is a great mp but it's a straight forward snp or tory seat so I imagine the libdems and Labour voters will be voting tory again to try and oust wishart. Which means any indy supporters in Perth and North perthshire need to do the same and vote snp.
You know things are pretty ****ed up when you have Labour voters voting Tory.

[marinello59]

You know things are pretty ****ed up when you have Labour voters voting Tory.

Only it’s not really true is it? People change their vote from election to election. I’d wager that 99% of people who still identify as Labour voters will vote Labour.
If Pete Wishart can’t retain his seat (I think he will) it will be because the local electorate think he doesn’t best represent their views. The cries of foul at a rival party daring to stand a candidate against him are reminiscent of the arrogance and sense of entitlement that saw the once dominant Labour Party start to decay.

[Cataplana]

Well Billy that was real Keystone Kops stuff from the Tory defence! First Rees-Mogg gets caught in possession, then Budgen makes the situation worse running into his team mate.

That's right Richard, keep that up and even a weak attack like Labour are sure to find the goal eventually.

[SHODAN]

You know things are pretty ****ed up when you have Labour voters voting Tory.

Many Labour voters I spoke to after the 2017 election were ****ing delighted the SNP had haemmoraged seats to the Tories, despite those seats actually keeping them in government.

[marinello59]

It looks like Johnson is going straight in to full on Trump mode comparing Corbyn to Stalin on the first day of official campaigning. I think we can forget about reasoned debate from him.

[Hibrandenburg]

Kay Burley on Sky News fuming because senior Tory (sorry not sure who) refused to take the chair after being presented with a list of questions she wanted to ask him on camera. Apparently he's only 15 feet away from her in the studio but refuses to face the camera so she fires the questions at the empty chair. Although I really can't stand her (not sure if that makes me a wife beater or not) but doth my hat to her for her tenacity.

[lapsedhibee]

It looks like Johnson is going straight in to full on Trump mode comparing Corbyn to Stalin on the first day of official campaigning. I think we can forget about reasoned debate from him.
Don't think he's really got reasoned debate within him, has he? It's just endlessly repeated slogans, taunts, finger jabbing, Latin bon mots, loadypish really.

[Ozyhibby]

Kay Burley on Sky News fuming because senior Tory (sorry not sure who) refused to take the chair after being presented with a list of questions she wanted to ask him on camera. Apparently he's only 15 feet away from her in the studio but refuses to face the camera so she fires the questions at the empty chair. Although I really can't stand her (not sure if that makes me a wife beater or not) but doth my hat to her for her tenacity.

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1192013639114514432?s=21


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[marinello59]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1192013639114514432?s=21


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The reply to that calling Burley left wing. :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1192013639114514432?s=21


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Decent, and as Lewis Goodall says, completely unedited

[JeMeSouviens]

Kay Burley on Sky News fuming because senior Tory (sorry not sure who) refused to take the chair after being presented with a list of questions she wanted to ask him on camera. Apparently he's only 15 feet away from her in the studio but refuses to face the camera so she fires the questions at the empty chair. Although I really can't stand her (not sure if that makes me a wife beater or not) but doth my hat to her for her tenacity.

James Cleverly - if ever there was an argument against nominative determinism, he's it.

[Ozyhibby]

Listening to the radio this morning, the Tories are having an absolute disastrous day.[emoji23]


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[JeMeSouviens]

This made me laugh:

https://twitter.com/cynical_bathtub/status/1192024799926718464

[marinello59]

This made me laugh:

https://twitter.com/cynical_bathtub/status/1192024799926718464

Brilliant. :greengrin

[Jack Hackett]

You think they're in the low 20's because they're scaring people who would never consider voting anything other than conservative anyway?

Erosion of what right? The right to buy up hundreds of properties and charge overinflated rent? Landlords should either be limited to the amount of properties they can own and rent out, or there should be a cap in place to stop them charging extortionate rent rates for people who are desperate for a roof over their heads.

Can't argue with that. This is my landlord

https://corporatewatch.org/grainger-the-corporate-landlord-cashing-in-on-the-housing-crisis/

My rent would make an Eldinburgh residents eyes water

[Andy Bee]

John McCdonnell last night on LBC about the right to buy for private tenants policy, "after consulting with a lot of people, particularly in my constituency, particularly a lot of the Asian community where they've said we do have another property we let out to family or to top up our pension and we feel disadvantaged with this, so I said OK we'll drop it, I understand that completely so we'll drop it".

A win for the middle classes? :greengrin

[DaveF]

Decent, and as Lewis Goodall says, completely unedited

So Cleverly says he was in another interview and Sky say he was 15ft away. Somebody is clearly lying.

[Hibrandenburg]

This made me laugh:

https://twitter.com/cynical_bathtub/status/1192024799926718464

:faf:

[SHODAN]

It couldn't be going much worse for Johnson yet the latest prediction gives him a 90 seat majority.

Incredible.

[Fife-Hibee]

It couldn't be going much worse for Johnson yet the latest prediction gives him a 90 seat majority.

Incredible.

It's almost like they're trying to lose ground because they know the economic **** is about to skelp the fan....

[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1191741665544953861


"Laura Pidcock: “We recognise why people voted Leave. We recognise why people voted Remain. We are not the party of either. We are the party of both."


Labour is going to try to cover both bases and in doing so leave them both wide open.

[danhibees1875]

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1191741665544953861


"Laura Pidcock: “We recognise why people voted Leave. We recognise why people voted Remain. We are not the party of either. We are the party of both."


Labour is going to try to cover both bases and in doing so leave them both wide open.


In their defence, it's only not worked for 3 years.

[Fife-Hibee]

It would appear Boris Johnson has been receiving hush hush money from Russian doners.
https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnsons-conservatives-receive-surge-in-cash-from-russians-2019-11?r=US&IR=T&fbclid=IwAR3doyoB96-C53azeWM-kexW7w5zuJwwg1y9EkddMIYJUoK9Vq6EEQZo0i0

Yes, the same man who just compared Corbyn's policy to properly tax billionaires to Stalinism.

[marinello59]

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1191741665544953861


"Laura Pidcock: “We recognise why people voted Leave. We recognise why people voted Remain. We are not the party of either. We are the party of both."


Labour is going to try to cover both bases and in doing so leave them both wide open.



I'll be honest here, I saw their Brexit policy as being difficult to sell to the electorate but Corbyn has actually done quite a good job with it so far. If they can get a bit of momentum going whilst the Tories are still stuck on the start line they might do a bit better than many of us have been predicting.

[Ozyhibby]

I'll be honest here, I saw their Brexit policy as being difficult to sell to the electorate but Corbyn has actually done quite a good job with it so far. If they can get a bit of momentum going whilst the Tories are still stuck on the start line they might do a bit better than many of us have been predicting.

The whole thing done in 6 months line works. Gets remain voters onside with PV and keeps those just wanting it over with quickly.


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[lapsedhibee]

I'll be honest here, I saw their Brexit policy as being difficult to sell to the electorate but Corbyn has actually done quite a good job with it so far. If they can get a bit of momentum going whilst the Tories are still stuck on the start line they might do a bit better than many of us have been predicting.

:agree: The trying to accommodate both sides might be received quite well by a lot of people. If that sticks and Johnson is still piffling on with his WW2 metaphors, Tory leads might dwindle as election day approaches...

[JeMeSouviens]

I'll be honest here, I saw their Brexit policy as being difficult to sell to the electorate but Corbyn has actually done quite a good job with it so far. If they can get a bit of momentum going whilst the Tories are still stuck on the start line they might do a bit better than many of us have been predicting.

It's not that hard to construct soundbites around:

"we're the only party that trusts the people"

I think fptp squeeze on the Libs and Greens is inevitable and that might give Lab a bit of momentum (no pun intended) as the polls start to move.