General election 2019

[Fife-Hibee]

Being said on the BBC that there is still plenty of time left until polling day and that the tories will try and move things on as quickly as possible.

But it's not parties that move these things on, it's the media. So surely it's the medias job to ensure that these things don't simply move on? :confused:

[DaveF]

So Cleverly says he was in another interview and Sky say he was 15ft away. Somebody is clearly lying.

Given the lack of outrage on this, I assume Burley was lying.

[Smartie]

I'll be honest here, I saw their Brexit policy as being difficult to sell to the electorate but Corbyn has actually done quite a good job with it so far. If they can get a bit of momentum going whilst the Tories are still stuck on the start line they might do a bit better than many of us have been predicting.

Their Brexit policy is actually perfectly plausible, sensible and reasonable.

I'm just not sure it really cuts it in a black/white, in/out populist era.

Brexit is emotive and it has managed to get England (where the vast majority of the UK's population live) really wound up. I'll take a bit of convincing that they wouldn't have been better of picking a side early on, sticking with it and rolling with a few punches along the way. They've looked indecisive and that is never good.

[Moulin Yarns]

Libdems not standing in Beaconsfield to allow Dominic Grieves a clear run, also not standing in the Isle of Wight to help the Greens.

So much for Jo Swinson becoming the next prime minister! Throwing away a couple of seats to the opposition parties.

[Ozyhibby]

Libdems not standing in Beaconsfield to allow Dominic Grieves a clear run, also not standing in the Isle of Wight to help the Greens.

So much for Jo Swinson becoming the next prime minister! Throwing away a couple of seats to the opposition parties.

They are def not throwing away seats. The greens will be returning the favour and they would never have won those seats anyway.


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[Colr]

In their defence, it's only not worked for 3 years.

It would be easier to arrange a mass amnesia campaign and pretend the whole thing never happened.

[Colr]

The whole thing done in 6 months line works. Gets remain voters onside with PV and keeps those just wanting it over with quickly.


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Only if leavers believe that they would win the referendum. If they lost then we start all over again.

[Just Alf]

Don't think the Brexit Party are getting the result they were hoping for!




Brexit Party Manchester (@BrexitParty_MCR) tweeted at 4:31 pm on Mon, Nov 04, 2019:
What do you chose? RT for bigger sample size.

(https://twitter.com/BrexitParty_MCR/status/1191392647132393478?s=09)



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[Frankhfc]

Labour would have been far better off sticking to a settled decisive position on Brexit. Their odds have lengthened again after last weeks shortening in. I don't think their fence sitting has been at all convincing. They'd have been far better off following the Lib Dems on an outright remain policy while vocally making the case for it. Instead they've boxed themselves into a voiceless corner on the big issue with their neutral positioning.

[Fife-Hibee]

Labour would have been far better off sticking to a settled decisive position on Brexit. Their odds have lengthened again after last weeks shortening in. I don't think their fence sitting has been at all convincing. They'd have been far better off following the Lib Dems on an outright remain policy while vocally making the case for it. Instead they've boxed themselves into a voiceless corner on the big issue with their neutral positioning.

Just one problem. The Lib Dems rhetoric over Brexit isn't remotely convincing either. That's what happens with a weak leader.

[Colr]

Tom Watson stands down!!

[Cataplana]

Tom Watson stands down!!

Guys a prick.

[Fife-Hibee]

Anyone else catch this channel 4 report earlier? :greengrin
https://twitter.com/i/status/1192183785829347329

[CloudSquall]

Anyone else catch this channel 4 report earlier? :greengrin
https://twitter.com/i/status/1192183785829347329


After Ross Thompson stepped down this ****'s taken No.1 spot on the list of SNP Gains I'll most enjoy.

[lord bunberry]

BJ going full Trump now. Did anyone just see that rally he did tonight with all the people behind him waiving banners, it was like an American presidential rally.

[Fife-Hibee]

BJ going full Trump now. Did anyone just see that rally he did tonight with all the people behind him waiving banners, it was like an American presidential rally.

Rent a crowd surely?

Most tory voters are far too busy working hard to be dabbling in some good old patriotic nationalistic flag waving......

[lord bunberry]

Rent a crowd surely?

Most tory voters are far too busy working hard to be dabbling in some good old patriotic nationalistic flag waving......
Most of them are also too old to stand that long without pissing themselves. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

rent a crowd surely?

Most tory voters are far too busy working hard to be dabbling in some good old patriotic nationalistic flag twirling ......


ftfy 😉

[Cataplana]

Are we really going to elect a PM who thinks you cook a microwave meal at gas mark 4?

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm hearing that the tories are to step aside in East Dumbartonshire to help out their ally Jo Swinson. :hmmm:

[lord bunberry]

I'm hearing that the tories are to step aside in East Dumbartonshire to help out their ally Jo Swinson. :hmmm:
That will help if they need a coalition partner again. I can’t believe anyone is fooled by her, she is a Tory and always will be. The only reason she isn’t a Tory mp is that she’s an opportunist who came into politics when the Tory party were unelectable.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm hearing that the tories are to step aside in East Dumbartonshire to help out their ally Jo Swinson. :hmmm:

I’m thinking you need cotton buds then because it is East Dunbartonshire, not East Dumbartonshire :wink:

I can fully see why the SNP would want to target this seat but their vote share there went down 10%at the last GE with a swing from SNP to LD of 7.2%. It is certainly a heavy EU Remain area.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m thinking you need cotton buds then because it is East Dunbartonshire, not East Dumbartonshire :wink:

I can fully see why the SNP would want to target this seat but their vote share there went down 10%at the last GE with a swing from SNP to LD of 7.2%. It is certainly a heavy EU Remain area.

Yip. I don’t think any of the Lib Dem seats in Scotland are on the SNP target list. Outside chance maybe Edinburgh West but the fact Lib Dem’s are solid remain and are up in the polls suggests they will hang to what they have. Top targets are all Labour and Tory.


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[lord bunberry]

I’m thinking you need cotton buds then because it is East Dunbartonshire, not East Dumbartonshire :wink:

I can fully see why the SNP would want to target this seat but their vote share there went down 10%at the last GE with a swing from SNP to LD of 7.2%. It is certainly a heavy EU Remain area.
Oh come on mate your better, much better than that in fact. Picking up people for spelling or grammar is poor.

[lord bunberry]

Yip. I don’t think any of the Lib Dem seats in Scotland are on the SNP target list. Outside chance maybe Edinburgh West but the fact Lib Dem’s are solid remain and are up in the polls suggests they will hang to what they have. Top targets are all Labour and Tory.


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Shetland has long been a target.

[Mibbes Aye]

Oh come on mate your better, much better than that in fact. Picking up people for spelling or grammar is poor.

Come on yourself. It’s not really about spelling, it is about glib lines that reflect a lack of care and misunderstanding of what is being represented. The people of West Duns and East Duns are likely bored to death with people calling them Dumbartonshire. They aren’t called Dumbartonshire. Sure enough if Boris or Jacob was coming out with something like that, there would be a ton of criticism from the usual suspects on here, saying it was insult to the people of Scotland.......

[lord bunberry]

Come on yourself. It’s not really about spelling, it is about glib lines that reflect a lack of care and misunderstanding of what is being represented. The people of West Duns and East Duns are likely bored to death with people calling them Dumbartonshire. They aren’t called Dumbartonshire. Sure enough if Boris or Jacob was coming out with something like that, there would be a ton of criticism from the usual suspects on here, saying it was insult to the people of Scotland.......
It doesn’t deflect from the point that was being made though. If you know what the poster meant is it not bad patter to pull them up on a minor spelling mistake? I really enjoy the holy ground forum and as someone who takes a keen interest in politics, but maybe doesn’t have the intellectual know how of many people on here I like to think that I can still make a contribution. I do realise that you have a bit of a disagreement on most topics with the poster you quoted, but to pull them up for this sort of thing can discourage other less confident people from posting.

[Mibbes Aye]

It doesn’t deflect from the point that was being made though. If you know what the poster meant is it not bad patter to pull them up on a minor spelling mistake? I really enjoy the holy ground forum and as someone who takes a keen interest in politics, but maybe doesn’t have the intellectual know how of many people on here I like to think that I can still make a contribution. I do realise that you have a bit of a disagreement on most topics with the poster you quoted, but to pull them up for this sort of thing can discourage other less confident people from posting.
In fairness I pulled the poster up about a ‘throw it out there’, ‘I heard.....’ completely unsubstantiated comment about the Tories in East Duns. And I posted detail of what had happened there in 2017, which was the gist of the post.

It is mildly amusing that you are defending a poster who has been accused by more than one of the rest of us, of blatant sexism and targeting women MPs for insults and abuse. But not defending the poster against that, just defending them about not knowing what constituency they are talking about. Priorities eh?

[lord bunberry]

In fairness I pulled the poster up about a ‘throw it out there’, ‘I heard.....’ completely unsubstantiated comment about the Tories in East Duns. And I posted detail of what had happened there in 2017, which was the gist of the post.

It is mildly amusing that you are defending a poster who has been accused by more than one of the rest of us, of blatant sexism and targeting women MPs for insults and abuse. But not defending the poster against that, just defending them about not knowing what constituency they are talking about. Priorities eh?
I’d like it to be made 100% clear I wasn’t defending anyone. I was making a general point about pulling people up for spelling or grammar mistakes. I said in my initial post that you’re better than that, and by that I meant you are more than capable of getting your point of view across without resorting to picking people up on their grammar. When you pull someone up who normally has good grammar for a small mistake it means very little but it sometimes discourages people like me who maybe don’t have the best grammar, but would still like to contribute to the debate.

[marinello59]

I'm hearing that the tories are to step aside in East Dumbartonshire to help out their ally Jo Swinson. :hmmm:

Source?

[Smartie]

Oh come on mate your better, much better than that in fact. Picking up people for spelling or grammar is poor.

MA and Fife have a bit of a “thing” going.

I like MA and don’t think he’d pull anyone else up for a minor spelling mistake that many people would make.

The pair of them dish it out to each other and seem ok at taking it in return.

Get in between them at your peril..........

[Moulin Yarns]

Come on yourself. It’s not really about spelling, it is about glib lines that reflect a lack of care and misunderstanding of what is being represented. The people of West Duns and East Duns are likely bored to death with people calling them Dumbartonshire. They aren’t called Dumbartonshire. Sure enough if Boris or Jacob was coming out with something like that, there would be a ton of criticism from the usual suspects on here, saying it was insult to the people of Scotland.......




OK. My turn, East and West Duns are 2 halves of a town in Berwickshire and is held by John Lamont for the Conservatives.
😉👍

[Pretty Boy]

I feel truly sorry for the satirists, this election is threatening their livelihoods.

When someone with the politics of Andrew Neil sees the Tories as an open goal and gets one of their MPs to say he 'doesn't know' if Jeremy Corbyn would have wealthy people shot then you know we are through the looking glass.

[heretoday]

I feel truly sorry for the satirists, this election is threatening their livelihoods.

When someone with the politics of Andrew Neil sees the Tories as an open goal and gets one of their MPs to say he 'doesn't know' if Jeremy Corbyn would have wealthy people shot then you know we are through the looking glass.

It's started early. Apparently, I'm considering voting for a Stalinist anti-Semite. Gosh. Well, at least he should get the trains running on time.

[Ozyhibby]

It's started early. Apparently, I'm considering voting for a Stalinist anti-Semite. Gosh. Well, at least he should get the trains running on time.

Doubtful.


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[lapsedhibee]

It's started early. Apparently, I'm considering voting for a Stalinist anti-Semite. Gosh. Well, at least he should get the trains running on time.

Wasn't that Mussolini's thing? Stalin was more tractors and light bulbs, no? :dunno:

[weecounty hibby]

Wasn't that Mussolini's thing? Stalin was more tractors and light bulbs, no? :dunno:
Not sure Mussolini did get the trains running in time. It was just that everyone was afraid to complain for fear of being shot!

[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/IrvineWelsh/status/1192363758473154560

:faf:

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71307614_2403254909934663_8033825099847041024_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQlvy1PpngWODgINA0E8zIfGnkEGdNL4Xn4Qv1NqLd6 e2l78HCQjEjVvMQjTWl13Nc0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=a8d82de143201ce4a34aaca857298752&oe=5E519919


quite a big turnout :shocked:



https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73191013_2403254916601329_4984680688016949248_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQlcuwenpcl-Z95Zz-ApOCn_4gzwv1AZ8h0CQhofzMxLIOyz3GbQbIMN1zEgmP_5BuM&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=173d6b1787178a21a7c258a513c1c114&oe=5E565D0D


then again :hilarious

[JeMeSouviens]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71307614_2403254909934663_8033825099847041024_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQlvy1PpngWODgINA0E8zIfGnkEGdNL4Xn4Qv1NqLd6 e2l78HCQjEjVvMQjTWl13Nc0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=a8d82de143201ce4a34aaca857298752&oe=5E519919


quite a big turnout :shocked:



https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73191013_2403254916601329_4984680688016949248_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQlcuwenpcl-Z95Zz-ApOCn_4gzwv1AZ8h0CQhofzMxLIOyz3GbQbIMN1zEgmP_5BuM&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=173d6b1787178a21a7c258a513c1c114&oe=5E565D0D


then again :hilarious

The weird thing about these huddles-in-a-hangar is that the broadcasters all go along with them unquestioningly. It's bizarre. :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

The weird thing about these huddles-in-a-hangar is that the broadcasters all go along with them unquestioningly. It's bizarre. :confused:

It’s how they maintain access. It’s the same in football. Most sports journalism here is just reporters telling the fans what the club want them to hear. No different in politics.


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[Fife-Hibee]

Come on yourself. It’s not really about spelling, it is about glib lines that reflect a lack of care and misunderstanding of what is being represented. The people of West Duns and East Duns are likely bored to death with people calling them Dumbartonshire. They aren’t called Dumbartonshire. Sure enough if Boris or Jacob was coming out with something like that, there would be a ton of criticism from the usual suspects on here, saying it was insult to the people of Scotland.......

Difference is. Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg would do it intentionally. Politicians that are prepared to blame victims of a burning building for listening to the government funded fire service personnel should give you a good insight into their mental state.

Not surprised to see you talking about them as if they're somehow the victims though.

[Fife-Hibee]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71307614_2403254909934663_8033825099847041024_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQlvy1PpngWODgINA0E8zIfGnkEGdNL4Xn4Qv1NqLd6 e2l78HCQjEjVvMQjTWl13Nc0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=a8d82de143201ce4a34aaca857298752&oe=5E519919


quite a big turnout :shocked:



https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73191013_2403254916601329_4984680688016949248_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQlcuwenpcl-Z95Zz-ApOCn_4gzwv1AZ8h0CQhofzMxLIOyz3GbQbIMN1zEgmP_5BuM&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=173d6b1787178a21a7c258a513c1c114&oe=5E565D0D


then again :hilarious

I swear, that party is nothing more than rent-a-crowds with a very compliant media to make them appear more popular than they really are. We see this example time and time again.

[Moulin Yarns]

BBC lunchtime news actually took the figures that John McDonnell said that Labour would spend if elected and broke them down to how long the extra would run the NHS for. I don't think I've ever seen a broadcaster ever tear apart a speech so fully before. I wonder what they will say about the tory lie about building 30 'new' hospitals?

[marinello59]

BBC lunchtime news actually took the figures that John McDonnell said that Labour would spend if elected and broke them down to how long the extra would run the NHS for. I don't think I've ever seen a broadcaster ever tear apart a speech so fully before. I wonder what they will say about the tory lie about building 30 'new' hospitals?

I saw a ‘fact check’ they ran on Boris yesterday. He didn’t come out of it well.

[Fife-Hibee]

BBC lunchtime news actually took the figures that John McDonnell said that Labour would spend if elected and broke them down to how long the extra would run the NHS for. I don't think I've ever seen a broadcaster ever tear apart a speech so fully before. I wonder what they will say about the tory lie about building 30 'new' hospitals?

40? If they're saying 30 now, at least they're getting closer to the handful of refurbs they're actually doing.

[SHODAN]

BJ going full Trump now. Did anyone just see that rally he did tonight with all the people behind him waiving banners, it was like an American presidential rally.

Didn't Kinnock try something like that in 1992 and it spectacularly ****ed up?

[southsider]

40? If they're saying 30 now, at least they're getting closer to the handful of refurbs they're actually doing.

A bit like the tens of thousands of affordable homes to be built there in reality there has not been one brick laid. Johnston is a liar and a Putin spy - he even has a Russian name.

[JeMeSouviens]

Didn't Kinnock try something like that in 1992 and it spectacularly ****ed up?

Yes, he did a cringe-fest in an arena, Sheffield I think. It was a real full-house crowd though.

[marinello59]

BBC lunchtime news actually took the figures that John McDonnell said that Labour would spend if elected and broke them down to how long the extra would run the NHS for. I don't think I've ever seen a broadcaster ever tear apart a speech so fully before. I wonder what they will say about the tory lie about building 30 'new' hospitals?

I saw a ‘fact check’ they ran on Boris yesterday. He didn’t come out of it well.

[Fife-Hibee]

I saw a ‘fact check’ they ran on Boris yesterday. He didn’t come out of it well.

Does he ever come out of it well? He bumbles his way through every interview. Yet, you'll never see that mentioned and splashed over the front pages of newspapers. They have more pressing matters, like what colour of tie Jeremy Corbyn is wearing, or some tory quote about how obsessed the SNP are with independence.

[RyeSloan]

I saw a ‘fact check’ they ran on Boris yesterday. He didn’t come out of it well.

The spending figures are all over the place.

I’ll wait for the manifestos before commenting too much but wow Labour seem to have gone from tax n spend to just spend. £150bn for this, £60bn for that and then there is the cost of all the renationalisations...it really does look completely made up but as I said let’s see the manifesto’s afore getting into it too deep.

[marinello59]

Does he ever come out of it well? He bumbles his way through every interview. Yet, you'll never see that mentioned and splashed over the front pages of newspapers. They have more pressing matters, like what colour of tie Jeremy Corbyn is wearing, or some tory quote about how obsessed the SNP are with independence.

I take it you only read the Mail and the Telegraph then .:greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

I take it you only read the Mail and the Telegraph then .:greengrin

The Daily Mail, The Telegraph, The Sun, The "Scotsman", The Express, The Times... take your pick.

Even the papers that claim to be more left-wing are too "moderate" to hit the tories where it hurts.

[marinello59]

I'm hearing that the tories are to step aside in East Dumbartonshire to help out their ally Jo Swinson. :hmmm:

I asked you this earlier but I think you missed it.
What's your source for this? Thanks.

[Moulin Yarns]

I asked you this earlier but I think you missed it.
What's your source for this? Thanks.

It's probably not true, let's face it both Fife and Maybes got it wrong, the constituency is Dunbartonshire East :greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

I asked you this earlier but I think you missed it.
What's your source for this? Thanks.

Apparently the Tory MP there told Jo Swinson that they believe she'd make a better PM than Boris Johnson. Not something you'd think they'd say if they weren't going to stand aside (at least, unofficially) - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-disaffected-labour-conservative-20825366

Not really surprising though. Both the tories and the Lib Dems in East Dunbartonshire have worked hand in glove to over rule the SNP administration there in order to screw over council workers - https://www.kirkintilloch-herald.co.uk/news/snp-group-walks-out-of-east-dunbartonshire-council-after-stormy-meeting-1-4645400

[Fife-Hibee]

Another piece of blairite trash outs himself as being a tory all along. - https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-former-labour-minister-urges-party-supporters-to-lend-the-tories-our-votes-11856077

[Moulin Yarns]

Apparently the Tory MP there told Jo Swinson that they believe she'd make a better PM than Boris Johnson. Not something you'd think they'd say if they weren't going to stand aside (at least, unofficially) - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-disaffected-labour-conservative-20825366

Not really surprising though. Both the tories and the Lib Dems in East Dunbartonshire have worked hand in glove to over rule the SNP administration there in order to screw over council workers - https://www.kirkintilloch-herald.co.uk/news/snp-group-walks-out-of-east-dunbartonshire-council-after-stormy-meeting-1-4645400

Which is where the story falls down. At this moment in time (from midnight on Tuesday) there are no MPs. But aside from that there hasn't been a Tory MP in Dunbartonshire East since 1974 and that was before the existing constituency was created. :greengrin

EDIT: Just read the Mirror link (YEUGH!!) and nowhere does it say a Tory is stepping aside to allow Jo Swinson a clear run?!

[Fife-Hibee]

Which is where the story falls down. At this moment in time (from midnight on Tuesday) there are no MPs. But aside from that there hasn't been a Tory MP in Dunbartonshire East since 1974 and that was before the existing constituency was created. :greengrin

That's irrelevant. They'll still be people there that vote tory and by "unofficially" taking a back seat and not bothering to really campaign, they're effectively handing the votes over to Jo Swinson.

I'm not saying they don't have a right to do that. I'm just using it to highlight the cozy relationship both parties have there.

[marinello59]

[QUOTE=Fife-Hibee;5983369]Apparently the Tory MP there told Jo Swinson that they believe she'd make a better PM than Boris Johnson. Not something you'd think they'd say if they weren't going to stand aside (at least, unofficially) - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-disaffected-labour-conservative-20825366

:confused: The MP in her constituency is Jo Swinson, not a Tory. There is no mention of the other candidate in that article. She does claim that MPs from both Labour and the Tories have privately told her she would make a better PM. Again, no mention of where they are from but they wont be standing against her. Your second headline is totally unrelated to my question.
So again, what is your source for this because it clearly isn't this article. Where did you hear this?

[Moulin Yarns]

That's irrelevant. They'll still be people there that vote tory and by "unofficially" taking a back seat and not bothering to really campaign, they're effectively handing the votes over to Jo Swinson.

I'm not saying they don't have a right to do that. I'm just using it to highlight the cozy relationship both parties have there.

So not the Tory 'candidate' but tory voters talking about tactical voting!!! That's a lot different to


I'm hearing that the tories are to step aside in East Dumbartonshire to help out their ally Jo Swinson

At the last election I know LibDems who actively campaigned for the Conservative candidate in Perth and North Perthshire, which is different to the LibDems not putting a candidate up.

I am hoping the Scottish Greens don't field a candidate here because I don't want to be in the position of campaigning for one candidate and voting for another :wink:

[Frankhfc]

So not the Tory 'candidate' but tory voters talking about tactical voting!!! That's a lot different to



At the last election I know LibDems who actively campaigned for the Conservative candidate in Perth and North Perthshire, which is different to the LibDems not putting a candidate up.

I am hoping the Scottish Greens don't field a candidate here because I don't want to be in the position of campaigning for one candidate and voting for another :wink:

I had a feeling in my water that Fife-Hibee's story wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. Its like the Fife-Hibee show on here as he jumps around shouting down anything he doesn't agree with as 'fake news' but expects his posts to be held up as truth sincere. Its spoiling what could be a decent forum. Better all round if he'd calm down and respect other peoples posts.

[Fife-Hibee]

[QUOTE]

:confused: The MP in her constituency is Jo Swinson, not a Tory. There is no mention of the other candidate in that article. She does claim that MPs from both Labour and the Tories have privately told her she would make a better PM. Again, no mention of where they are from but they wont be standing against her. Your second headline is totally unrelated to my question.
So again, what is your source for this because it clearly isn't this article. Where did you hear this?

The proof will be in the outcome when the tory candidate gets single figure votes. Obviously I can't "prove" something that's never going to be made openly official.

But if you seen my second link which you automatically wrote off, you'd get an idea of the kind of relationship the Lib Dems have with the Tories in that constituency to beat down on hard working people.

[Hibbyradge]

I saw a ‘fact check’ they ran on Boris yesterday. He didn’t come out of it well.

That's happened to him twice in quick succession! :wink:

[marinello59]

The proof will be in the outcome when the tory candidate gets single figure votes. Obviously I can't "prove" something that's never going to be made openly official.

But if you seen my second link which you automatically wrote off, you'd get an idea of the kind of relationship the Lib Dems have with the Tories in that constituency to beat down on hard working people.

So you haven't actually heard it from anywhere, you just made it up. Cheers for the response.

[JeMeSouviens]

So you haven't actually heard it from anywhere, you just made it up. Cheers for the response.

The proof of the thing that's going to happen is something that can't happen if the thing that's going to happen happens.

[Fife-Hibee]

So you haven't actually heard it from anywhere, you just made it up. Cheers for the response.

Of course I have. I know people that live in that constituency and they're all telling me the same thing. Quit acting like it isn't a thing, just because they don't make it an official news story.

[marinello59]

Of course I have. I know people that live in that constituency and they're all telling me the same thing. Quit acting like it isn't a thing, just because they don't make it an official news story.

So you have moved from a news story that proved nothing to now knowing people who live in that constituency who all have inside knowledge of this? Okay, sounds plausible.
At best you were passing hearsay off as fact, something you were critical of Christine Jardine doing just last week.

[marinello59]

The proof of the thing that's going to happen is something that can't happen if the thing that's going to happen happens.

:greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

So you have moved from a news story that proved nothing to now knowing people who live in that constituency who all have inside knowledge of this? Okay, sounds plausible.
At best you were passing hearsay off as fact, something you were critical of Christine Jardine doing just last week.

They don't require "inside knowledge". They all know who they're going to vote for themselves and why.

[marinello59]

They don't require "inside knowledge". They all know who they're going to vote for themselves and why.

That’s a world away from the Tory candidate standing aside then. Like I said, you made it up. I’ll leave it there.

[Moulin Yarns]

So you have moved from a news story that proved nothing to now knowing people who live in that constituency who all have inside knowledge of this? Okay, sounds plausible.
At best you were passing hearsay off as fact, something you were critical of Christine Jardine doing just last week.

Which reminds me, did Fife-Hibee get the photos of Christine Jardine at her office the other Friday?

[RyeSloan]

Which reminds me, did Fife-Hibee get the photos of Christine Jardine at her office the other Friday?

Too busy canvassing the 7,500 Tory voters in East Dunbartonshire about ‘standing aside’ obviously!

[G B Young]

Following Tom Watson's resignation ('personal rather political' he claims, but in reality precisely timed to derail Corbyn) ex-Labour MPs now pledging to vote Tory to keep Corbyn out:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-john-woodcock-back-boris-johnson-tories-corbyn-labour-a9190421.html

Jewish Chronicle front page today:

https://www.thejc.com/comment/leaders/to-all-our-fellow-british-citizens-1.491812

[Fife-Hibee]

Following Tom Watson's resignation ('personal rather political' he claims, but in reality precisely timed to derail Corbyn) ex-Labour MPs now pledging to vote Tory to keep Corbyn out:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-john-woodcock-back-boris-johnson-tories-corbyn-labour-a9190421.html

Jewish Chronicle front page today:

https://www.thejc.com/comment/leaders/to-all-our-fellow-british-citizens-1.491812

Not Lib Dem, or Green, or any other party. But the tories.

[Frankhfc]

Which reminds me, did Fife-Hibee get the photos of Christine Jardine at her office the other Friday?

I think if I remember rightly it was to take photographs of the office without Christine Jardine in it!

I noticed a lot of Lib Dem posters and signs up around the constituency today. I think she'll be voted back in to be honest although I don't know what the latest polling is.

[Frankhfc]

Not Lib Dem, or Green, or any other party. But the tories.

They're desperate to stop Corbyn and the tories are the only party that will do that so its obvious why.

Labour are in complete chaos. Our biggest hope is that the Lib Dems will have a very good GE and sweep up a vast number of the remain seats that won't vote for Corbyn.

[Fife-Hibee]

They're desperate to stop Corbyn and the tories are the only party that will do that so its obvious why.

Labour are in complete chaos. Our biggest hope is that the Lib Dems will have a very good GE and sweep up a vast number of the remain seats that won't vote for Corbyn.

Imagine standing as a Labour MP, getting elected on a Labour ticket. Then abandonning the party and advocating that people vote tory, claiming "anti-semitism" as the reason.

It would seem that people like Mr Austin thinks that Islamaphobia is perfectly ok then, as it's rife within the Conservative Party.

I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the fact the Corbyn refuses to pander to Israeli lobbyist and that Mr Austin recieves income streams from the Israeli Knesset, the Israeli Ministry of Jerusalem & Heritage, the Australia Israel cultural exchange, Sir David Garrard (Israeli Lobbyist) and that other Israeli Lobbyist Sir Trevor Chinn.

Nope, nothing to see here.

[Frankhfc]

Imagine standing as a Labour MP, getting elected on a Labour ticket. Then abandonning the party and advocating that people vote tory, claiming "anti-semitism" as the reason.

It would seem that people like Mr Austin thinks that Islamaphobia is perfectly ok then, as it's rife within the Conservative Party.

I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the fact the Corbyn refuses to pander to Israeli lobbyist and that Mr Austin recieves income streams from the Israeli Knesset, the Israeli Ministry of Jerusalem & Heritage, the Australia Israel cultural exchange, Sir David Garrard (Israeli Lobbyist) and that other Israeli Lobbyist Sir Trevor Chinn.

Nope, nothing to see here.

I'm no Labour fan so can't argue either for or against what you've said. It doesn't look good to the electorate though and as I've said before I think Labour are in for a bit of a doing. Could be wrong but whatever happens I hope the Lib Dems and other progressive parties take up the slack if Labour does as badly as predicted to stop an outright tory majority.

[marinello59]

I'm no Labour fan so can't argue either for or against what you've said. It doesn't look good to the electorate though and as I've said before I think Labour are in for a bit of a doing. Could be wrong but whatever happens I hope the Lib Dems and other progressive parties take up the slack if Labour does as badly as predicted to stop an outright tory majority.

Corbyn is on no way anti-Semitic but he failed to deal with those in his party who are. All they can do is damage limitation on this one.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think if I remember rightly it was to take photographs of the office without Christine Jardine in it!

I noticed a lot of Lib Dem posters and signs up around the constituency today. I think she'll be voted back in to be honest although I don't know what the latest polling is.

It was. Which is why I have to question the absence of the photos 🤔

[Frankhfc]

Corbyn is on no way anti-Semitic but he failed to deal with those in his party who are. All they can do is damage limitation on this one.

Sounds spot on. I've not heard anybody call Corbyn himself anti-Semitic but its very hard to deny there is a problem and its caused huge division within the ranks as shown by those who're now so fed up with Corbyn's handling of it that they're now willing to vote not just against Labour but side with the tories. Very damaging stuff. We can only hope the electorate don't go the same way and vote for the progressives instead of the tories.

[Frankhfc]

It was. Which is why I have to question the absence of the photos 🤔

:greengrin

It was a rash comment and one that Fife-Hibee probably regrets making. No harm done.

[G B Young]

Corbyn is on no way anti-Semitic but he failed to deal with those in his party who are. All they can do is damage limitation on this one.

Whether he is or not, it's an issue which he continually comes up against, years after it first surfaced. It's seen another Labour candidate forced to resign tonight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50338256

As an aside, what is that bit at the end of the story all about? What's the relevance of spraying Joanna Cherry with bleach?

"Another Labour candidate, Frances Hoole was earlier dropped in Edinburgh South West. The party refused to endorse Ms Hoole after she posted an image on social media of her SNP rival, Joanna Cherry, being targeted with a bleach spray."

[Hibbyradge]

Whether he is or not, it's an issue which he continually comes up against, years after it first surfaced. It's seen another Labour candidate forced to resign tonight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50338256

As an aside, what is that bit at the end of the story all about? What's the relevance of spraying Joanna Cherry with bleach?

"Another Labour candidate, Frances Hoole was earlier dropped in Edinburgh South West. The party refused to endorse Ms Hoole after she posted an image on social media of her SNP rival, Joanna Cherry, being targeted with a bleach spray."

The explanation, and image, are in this story.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18009156.labour-candidate-apologises-joanna-cherry-threat-tweet/

[stokesmessiah]

Imagine standing as a Labour MP, getting elected on a Labour ticket. Then abandonning the party and advocating that people vote tory, claiming "anti-semitism" as the reason.

It would seem that people like Mr Austin thinks that Islamaphobia is perfectly ok then, as it's rife within the Conservative Party.

I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the fact the Corbyn refuses to pander to Israeli lobbyist and that Mr Austin recieves income streams from the Israeli Knesset, the Israeli Ministry of Jerusalem & Heritage, the Australia Israel cultural exchange, Sir David Garrard (Israeli Lobbyist) and that other Israeli Lobbyist Sir Trevor Chinn.

Nope, nothing to see here.

Austin was on the C4 news earlier and was asked if he was happy about the pillar boxes comments from Johnson. Quite astonishingly, he said that what Boris had actually been doing was standing up for Muslim woman’s rights with that comment.

[southfieldhibby]

Seems the no tory in E Dunbartonshire was right after all...

https://twitter.com/TheProleStar/status/1192420562443915264?s=20

[JeMeSouviens]

Seems the no tory in E Dunbartonshire was right after all...

https://twitter.com/TheProleStar/status/1192420562443915264?s=20

It won't be. They just haven't found a candidate yet. They're not exactly overburdened with prospective candidates in most of Scotland. :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

Seems the no tory in E Dunbartonshire was right after all...

https://twitter.com/TheProleStar/status/1192420562443915264?s=20

That's a screenshot from Wikipedia.

This is how it looks today, with a full week to go before candidate registration closes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

[Moulin Yarns]

Now that the website is running again.

Yougov polls

Wales
Westminster voting intention in the WALES (31 Oct - 4 Nov)

Lab - 29% (-20 from GE2017 result)
Con - 28% (-6)
Brexit Party - 15% (+13 on UKIP GE2017)
Plaid Cymru - 12% (+2)
Lib Dem - 12% (+7)
Green - 3% (+3)

https://t.co/0LPtXVCDTX https://t.co/M0E84vmRxv

Scotland

Westminster voting intention in the SCOTLAND (23-25 Oct)

SNP - 42% (+5 from GE2017 result)
Con - 22% (-7)
Lib Dem - 13% (+6)
Lab - 12% (-15)
Brexit Party - 6% (+6 on UKIP GE2017)
Green - 4% (+4)

https://t.co/0LPtXVCDTX https://t.co/MH4zQl5MCV

All across England tories are down, Labour down more, libdems and Brexit looking to sweep up the votes.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/8c2aabb55886e7e2b3f34d1ffb232b09.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/8c2aabb55886e7e2b3f34d1ffb232b09.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Beat you 😁

[marinello59]

That's a screenshot from Wikipedia.

This is how it looks today, with a full week to go before candidate registration closes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

And they have a candidate showing there now.

[Moulin Yarns]

And they have a candidate showing there now.

Currently a Councillor for Bearsden. Must have been really annoyed with the libdems to have the audacity to not stand aside for Jo Swinson 😉

[Cataplana]

Don't know if anyone saw QT last night, but Barry Gardiner had Hamza Useless on toast. The guy is a definite weak link for the SNP.

Otherwise, I was proud of the quality of the debate and contributions from the audience. A million miles from the monosyllabic contributions when the programme is broadcast from Oop Nath.

Special mention has to go to the Tory mouthpiece, although she soldiered on she kept getting caught, I thought she was going to burst into tears at one point.

[Hibrandenburg]

Don't know if anyone saw QT last night, but Barry Gardiner had Hamza Useless on toast. The guy is a definite weak link for the SNP.

Otherwise, I was proud of the quality of the debate and contributions from the audience. A million miles from the monosyllabic contributions when the programme is broadcast from Oop Nath.

Special mention has to go to the Tory mouthpiece, although she soldiered on she kept getting caught, I thought she was going to burst into tears at one point.

Her puss was tripping her through the whole programme. Loved when she said "Boris cares for Scotland" and the whole audience started pishing themselves.

Didn't think Hamza did too badly but his constant interruptions got on my nerves a bit.

[Moulin Yarns]

Don't know if anyone saw QT last night, but Barry Gardiner had Hamza Useless on toast. The guy is a definite weak link for the SNP.

Otherwise, I was proud of the quality of the debate and contributions from the audience. A million miles from the monosyllabic contributions when the programme is broadcast from Oop Nath.

Special mention has to go to the Tory mouthpiece, although she soldiered on she kept getting caught, I thought she was going to burst into tears at one point.

I didn't think much of the guy Anderson, businessman, he seemed to lose track of the point at times. I think Angela haggerty came across well.

[CloudSquall]

Her puss was tripping her through the whole programme. Loved when she said "Boris cares for Scotland" and the whole audience started pishing themselves.

Didn't think Hamza did too badly but his constant interruptions got on my nerves a bit.

Does the SNP get to choose who goes on? They have a lot of depth but it always seems to be the marmite types like Humza (either people like him or can't stand him) or ones like Fiona Hyslop who is usually a bit crap on those type of shows.

[Moulin Yarns]

Does the SNP get to choose who goes on? They have a lot of depth but it always seems to be the marmite types like Hamza (either people like him or can't stand him) or ones like Fiona Hyslop who is usually a bit crap on those type of shows.


I've no idea how the panels are selected but....


https://twitter.com/GeoffLeyshon/status/1192590415196803072?s=19

[Jones28]

Her puss was tripping her through the whole programme. Loved when she said "Boris cares for Scotland" and the whole audience started pishing themselves.

Didn't think Hamza did too badly but his constant interruptions got on my nerves a bit.

He tries too hard to play the politician. People would be much warmer towards him and those like him if the made their points without talking g over and interrupting others.

[Smartie]

He tries too hard to play the politician. People would be much warmer towards him and those like him if the made their points without talking g over and interrupting others.

I thought he was unnecessarily abrasive and I found myself liking the people whose standpoint I don't necessarily agree with (Barry Gardiner for example) a lot more than Yusuf whose standpoint I do agree with.

He was too quick to interrupt and shout over people when they were better left in peace to talk nonsense and go a long way towards beating themselves before he could join in and finish the job.

[SHODAN]

That's a screenshot from Wikipedia.

This is how it looks today, with a full week to go before candidate registration closes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

Why have the Greens put one in an SNP target, ridiculous

[Frankhfc]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/8c2aabb55886e7e2b3f34d1ffb232b09.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting snapshot.

Snp doing fine with the tories losing ground as expected and the Lib Dems increasing their share.

Its Labour that's deep in the dug kite. If that's reflected across the UK they're in for a hard night come the GE.

Polls have been known to get it wrong lately but its looking grim for Labour.

[CloudSquall]

Why have the Greens put one in an SNP target, ridiculous

Maybe after Jo proudly confirmed she'd launch the nukes they will pick up the Lib Dem vote instead, we can only hope :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Why have the Greens put one in an SNP target, ridiculous

I'm of the same opinion. I think that they are putting up 22 candidates.

I will vote snp at Westminster and green at Scottish and council elections until independence.

[Moulin Yarns]

Interesting snapshot.

Snp doing fine with the tories losing ground as expected and the Lib Dems increasing their share.

Its Labour that's deep in the dug kite. If that's reflected across the UK they're in for a hard night come the GE.

Polls have been known to get it wrong lately but its looking grim for Labour.


Take a look at my post before oz. It takes you to the Yougov twitter and you can see how bad Labour are doing in England.

[Frankhfc]

Take a look at my post before oz. It takes you to the Yougov twitter and you can see how bad Labour are doing in England.

Just had a look mate thanks.

Its extremely grim, worse than even I thought. They could also easily lose much of Wales which has almost always been their stronghold. A party in crisis no doubt about it.

[Moulin Yarns]

Why have the Greens put one in an SNP target, ridiculous

It's not just me that is questioning the green strategy


http://bright-green.org/2019/11/08/unite-to-remain-will-do-more-harm-than-good/

[CloudSquall]

Take a look at my post before oz. It takes you to the Yougov twitter and you can see how bad Labour are doing in England.


If they were to take 12% in Scotland it would be the worst result for Labour in Scotland in 100 years.


In Scotland I just can't see where they will pick up votes from outside of those who hardcore believe in Corbyn's vision for the UK, unionists are going to vote for the Tories or Lib Dems, remainers will vote SNP or Lib Dem.

Davidson squeezed them on the indepdendence question, the SNP has squeezed them from the left, and I don't think anyone outside of those who take a strong interest in politics would know who Richard Leonhard actually is.

Completely screwed in other words.

[weecounty hibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/8c2aabb55886e7e2b3f34d1ffb232b09.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looking good, but let's not be complacent Indy fans, we still need to get out and vote. Especially where tactical voting between the newly formed parties of Condems/labory/labdems are all about keeping Scotland to heel.

[Frankhfc]

If they were to take 12% in Scotland it would be the worst result for Labour in Scotland in 100 years.


In Scotland I just can't see where they will pick up votes from outside of those who hardcore believe in Corbyn's vision for the UK, unionists are going to vote for the Tories or Lib Dems, remainers will vote SNP or Lib Dem.

Davidson squeezed them on the indepdendence question, the SNP has squeezed them from the left, and I don't think anyone outside of those who take a strong interest in politics would know who Richard Leonhard actually is.

Completely screwed in other words.

A decent summary.

Labour are completely irrelevant in Scotland now. Its looking likely they're going to lose ground in both England and Wales also. They're fast disappearing up their own behinds which is sad to see as they're a party that has done many good things in the past but are virtually unelectable in their present state and even a change of leader wouldn't solve all of their deep rooted problems.

[Moulin Yarns]

If they were to take 12% in Scotland it would be the worst result for Labour in Scotland in 100 years.


In Scotland I just can't see where they will pick up votes from outside of those who hardcore believe in Corbyn's vision for the UK, unionists are going to vote for the Tories or Lib Dems, remainers will vote SNP or Lib Dem.

Davidson squeezed them on the indepdendence question, the SNP has squeezed them from the left, and I don't think anyone outside of those who take a strong interest in politics would know who Richard Leonhard actually is.

Completely screwed in other words.

Who is this Richard Leonard you speak of? Is this a fabled norse god or some fictional superhero like the green lantern?

[weecounty hibby]

A decent summary.

Labour are completely irrelevant in Scotland now. Its looking likely they're going to lose ground in both England and Wales also. They're fast disappearing up their own behinds which is sad to see as they're a party that has done many good things in the past but are virtually unelectable in their present state and even a change of leader wouldn't solve all of their deep rooted problems.
The problem I see for Labour us that they don't seem to have any defined stance on very much at the moment. Brexit, sit in the fence. Indyref2 Leaned says one thing and the London head office say another. Their fiscal figures for government look completely made up with billions of pounds being plucked out if thin air. It is sad as in an independent Scotland a Labour party would probably have got my vote. Just can't see them as credible though

[cabbageandribs1875]

Who is this Richard Leonard you speak of? Is this a fabled norse god or some fictional superhero like the green lantern?


he's going to be our next first minister








source: richard leonard

[CloudSquall]

Who is this Richard Leonard you speak of? Is this a fabled norse god or some fictional superhero like the green lantern?

I was calling him Richard Lionheart for about 6 months until I realised that's actually a 12th century English King :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

he's going to be our next first minister








source: richard leonard

Funny, someone called Jo Swinson thinks she is the next prime minister.


Methinks neither are right. 😁

[Dalianwanda]

he's going to be our next first minister








source: richard leonard

Whats the sit on the fence? Get in, negotiate a deal, put that deal to a vote. Its pretty clear cut.

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting snapshot.

Snp doing fine with the tories losing ground as expected and the Lib Dems increasing their share.

Its Labour that's deep in the dug kite. If that's reflected across the UK they're in for a hard night come the GE.

Polls have been known to get it wrong lately but its looking grim for Labour.

I think Labour won’t do as bad down south as they will here.


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[Frankhfc]

The problem I see for Labour us that they don't seem to have any defined stance on very much at the moment. Brexit, sit in the fence. Indyref2 Leaned says one thing and the London head office say another. Their fiscal figures for government look completely made up with billions of pounds being plucked out if thin air. It is sad as in an independent Scotland a Labour party would probably have got my vote. Just can't see them as credible though

Agree with you on all of this.

Labour would bankrupt Scotland in a very short time indeed. They're the party of total fiscal irresponsibility and wanton profligacy. They're on a downward spiral thankfully.

[Ozyhibby]

Who is this Richard Leonard you speak of? Is this a fabled norse god or some fictional superhero like the green lantern?

He’s an absolute gift for the SNP.
I can’t think of any political leader as uninspiring in my lifetime. I doubt half the population of Scotland could tell who he was.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

Funny, someone called Jo Swinson thinks she is the next prime minister.


Methinks neither are right. 😁



surprised she omitted that from her own personal battle bus



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIrYeFFWsAAIY9z?format=jpg&name=small

[Frankhfc]

I think Labour won’t do as bad down south as they will here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They won't but it isn't that difficult a target as they're virtually non-existent and largely irrelevant up here now.

[cabbageandribs1875]

kristene hair wearing a bluetooth earpiece during QT last night......wonder what she needed that for, she did appear quite robotic at times, staring into space as well :agree:

[Glory Lurker]

kristene hair wearing a bluetooth earpiece during QT last night......wonder what she needed that for, she did appear quite robotic at times, staring into space as well :agree:

SNP gain.

[lapsedhibee]

Whats the sit on the fence? Get in, negotiate a deal, put that deal to a vote. Its pretty clear cut.

It is very clear but unfortunately can't be put into a 3-word slogan.

Get Brexit Done
Not For Sale
Bollocks To Brexit

Most of this election is politics for four-year-olds.

[Bristolhibby]

Agree with you on all of this.

Labour would bankrupt Scotland in a very short time indeed. They're the party of total fiscal irresponsibility and wanton profligacy. They're on a downward spiral thankfully.

I give you the Tory “money tree”.

J

[Colr]

Whats the sit on the fence? Get in, negotiate a deal, put that deal to a vote. Its pretty clear cut.

With some senior figures campaigning to remain and against the deal they have just negotiated.

Perfectly clear.

[lord bunberry]

Don't know if anyone saw QT last night, but Barry Gardiner had Hamza Useless on toast. The guy is a definite weak link for the SNP.

Otherwise, I was proud of the quality of the debate and contributions from the audience. A million miles from the monosyllabic contributions when the programme is broadcast from Oop Nath.

Special mention has to go to the Tory mouthpiece, although she soldiered on she kept getting caught, I thought she was going to burst into tears at one point.
That wasn’t the impression I got, I thought Hamza came across very well. Gardiner trying to bring up the Salmond court case was despicable imo.

[Mr Grieves]

Since nobody has got his name right yet, it's Humza Yousaf :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Since nobody has got his name right yet, it's Humza Yousaf :greengrin

I actually googled it and still got it wrong. :doh:

[HiBremian]

It is very clear but unfortunately can't be put into a 3-word slogan.

Get Brexit Done
Not For Sale
Bollocks To Brexit

Most of this election is politics for four-year-olds.

Do Or Don’t?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[The Harp Awakes]

kristene hair wearing a bluetooth earpiece during QT last night......wonder what she needed that for, she did appear quite robotic at times, staring into space as well :agree:

Yes, watched QT last night and I found her manner very strange. Her face was expressionless and she seemed detached from reality - even more so than tories are generally. Was quite funny when she proclaimed Boris cares deeply about Scotland and most of the audience p1shed themselves laughing :greengrin

[mjhibby]

A decent summary.

Labour are completely irrelevant in Scotland now. Its looking likely they're going to lose ground in both England and Wales also. They're fast disappearing up their own behinds which is sad to see as they're a party that has done many good things in the past but are virtually unelectable in their present state and even a change of leader wouldn't solve all of their deep rooted problems.

A change of leader may not solve all labours problems but it will rid them of having a leader who is unelectable. It's looking bleak for them and it will only be our Nigel's party polling better than the polls suggest that will stop Johnson getting a majority. Mind you if it's all about brexit then Johnson will not get a majority as I've a feeling more and more folk are realising that leave only have downsides. Will be such a tricky result to call and hopefully johnson falls a few seats short. I suspect he will probably miss out by ten to fifteen and with the dup likely to lose a few seats the only coalition the Tories could get is with the libdems. I doubt that would happen but stranger things have happened and the libdems have form for it.
Btw until labour stop being ruled by momentum they won't go close to getting a majority.

[Fife-Hibee]

It would seem that a party candidate is missing for the 2019 general election in East Dunbartonshire.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#E lections_in_the_2010s

[Stairway 2 7]

Should be a clean sweep almost for snp. Although looking like a Boris government so pretty pointless as he won't allow for an official independence vote in his 5 years so pretty pointless

[Cataplana]

That wasn’t the impression I got, I thought Hamza came across very well. Gardiner trying to bring up the Salmond court case was despicable imo.

Fairs fair, I was a wee bit pished at the time. I can't remember much about it. When did Yousuf get the better of Gardiner?

[lapsedhibee]

Do Or Don’t?

Seventeen million people.

[Ozyhibby]

Should be a clean sweep almost for snp. Although looking like a Boris government so pretty pointless as he won't allow for an official independence vote in his 5 years so pretty pointless

I doubt he will be able to suspend democracy that long.


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[Hibby70]

surprised she omitted that from her own personal battle bus



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIrYeFFWsAAIY9z?format=jpg&name=small

Do they chant "Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats" to the same tune of "New Manager's Green and White Army"

[Moulin Yarns]

It would seem that a party candidate is missing for the 2019 general election in East Dunbartonshire.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Dunbartonshire_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#E lections_in_the_2010s

This has already been answered. Deadline for the parties to get candidates paperwork in is next Friday.

[Cataplana]

Jews represent 0.5 per cent of the UK population. They are the fifth largest religious community in the UK after Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs.

https://www.bod.org.uk/jewish-facts-info/jews-in-numbers/

I hate to say it, but "anti semitism" seems to be playing a disproportionate role in this election. Particularly when it is confused with anti Zionism.

[lapsedhibee]

Jews represent 0.5 per cent of the UK population. They are the fifth largest religious community in the UK after Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs.

https://www.bod.org.uk/jewish-facts-info/jews-in-numbers/

I hate to say it, but "anti semitism" seems to be playing a disproportionate role in this election. Particularly when it is confused with anti Zionism.

I must be misunderstanding your argument here. Alleged persecution of a religious minority shouldn't be a big issue if the minority is very small? :confused:

[Cataplana]

I must be misunderstanding your argument here. Alleged persecution of a religious minority shouldn't be a big issue if the minority is very small? :confused:

The key word was disproportionate. There is a limited amount of time to debate.

[marinello59]

Jews represent 0.5 per cent of the UK population. They are the fifth largest religious community in the UK after Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs.

https://www.bod.org.uk/jewish-facts-info/jews-in-numbers/

I hate to say it, but "anti semitism" seems to be playing a disproportionate role in this election. Particularly when it is confused with anti Zionism.

That's a fair point about the confusion with anti-zionism and a lot of the stuff I have seen being called out as anti-semitic really wasn't. Where Labour have a problem is with those who have crossed the line in to anti-semitism, whether by design or through ignorance. If they had dealt with the relatively small amount of members guilty of that they wouldn't be getting battered for it now.
I'm not sure what relevance the size of the Jewish community has here? What point are you trying to make with that one?

[Cataplana]

That's a fair point about the confusion with anti-zionism and a lot of the stuff I have seen being called out as anti-semitic really wasn't. Where Labour have a problem is with those who have crossed the line in to anti-semitism, whether by design or through ignorance. If they had dealt with the relatively small amount of members guilty of that they wouldn't be getting battered for it now.
I'm not sure what relevance the size of the Jewish community has here?

I would rather that the debate was about Labours wealth creation policy, or pensions. I question why this issue which affects very few electors, and which is subject to dispute within the Jewish community, is such a prominent election issue.

The treatment of gay people in Northern Ireland, or WASPI women could be said to be more important but we focus on this. I think it is being given more attentii than it merits.

[lapsedhibee]

I would rather that the debate was about Labours wealth creation policy, or pensions. I question why this issue which affects very few electors, and which is subject to dispute within the Jewish community, is such a prominent election issue.

The treatment of gay people in Northern Ireland, or WASPI women could be said to be more important but we focus on this. I think it is being given more attentii than it merits.

Persecution of religious minorities affects all electors. And people who are not on the electoral roll. Or it should.

[Cataplana]

Persecution of religious minorities affects all electors. And people who are not on the electoral roll. Or it should.

Of course it does, I am questioning whether the impact of this "persecution" (as I say Jews are questioning whether it exists) has on the people "effected" is jumping the queue in terms of what we could be discussing.

Personally, I see it as a tactic to discredit all of Labour and Corbyn's policies by discrediting the man himself. When you consider that his showing sympathy to the Palestinian cause is one of the main criticisms, you have to wonder it is more a matter of foreign policy than protection of minorities.

I feel the coverage is out of proportion to the problem.

[bigwheel]

Of course it does, I am questioning whether the impact of this "persecution" (as I say Jews are questioning whether it exists) has on the people "effected" is jumping the queue in terms of what we could be discussing.

Personally, I see it as a tactic to discredit all of Labour and Corbyn's policies by discrediting the man himself. When you consider that his showing sympathy to the Palestinian cause is one of the main criticisms, you have to wonder it is more a matter of foreign policy than protection of minorities.

I feel the coverage is out of proportion to the problem.

Yes. political agenda...making him seen as a figure of hate ..although tbf not sure he has done enough to discredit it.

[lapsedhibee]

Of course it does, I am questioning whether the impact of this "persecution" (as I say Jews are questioning whether it exists) has on the people "effected" is jumping the queue in terms of what we could be discussing.

Personally, I see it as a tactic to discredit all of Labour and Corbyn's policies by discrediting the man himself. When you consider that his showing sympathy to the Palestinian cause is one of the main criticisms, you have to wonder it is more a matter of foreign policy than protection of minorities.

I feel the coverage is out of proportion to the problem.

Sure the (Tory) press coverage is over the top, but it's a serious issue which hasn't been well handled by the Labour leadership, so it's inevitable that Corbyn and Labour are going to be slaughtered for it. At least there is some basis in truth for this criticism, unlike most of the nonsense being pumped out by Johnson & cronies, so it's a kind of silver bullet for them.

"Affected". :wink:

[Cataplana]

Sure the (Tory) press coverage is over the top, but it's a serious issue which hasn't been well handled by the Labour leadership, so it's inevitable that Corbyn and Labour are going to be slaughtered for it. At least there is some basis in truth for this criticism, unlike most of the nonsense being pumped out by Johnson & cronies, so it's a kind of silver bullet for them.

"Affected". :wink:

I was struggling with that one, thanks. Never sure which one to use.

Corbyn could have handled it better, it a got a bit Dave Spart, but the way it is presented on the media he's Hitler.

[lapsedhibee]

With some senior figures campaigning to remain and against the deal they have just negotiated.

Perfectly clear.

Not too different from the position of Harold Wilson's government in the first referendum in 1975, though, so not sure why Labour should be getting vilified for it this time round (other than that the opposing party this time is full of single-issue fanatics, which it wasn't then).

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ManufacturingNI/status/1192564837345353728

Johnson had to have been at least 4 or 5 glasses into the night by this point, Shirley?

[Fife-Hibee]

I would rather that the debate was about Labours wealth creation policy, or pensions. I question why this issue which affects very few electors, and which is subject to dispute within the Jewish community, is such a prominent election issue.

The treatment of gay people in Northern Ireland, or WASPI women could be said to be more important but we focus on this. I think it is being given more attentii than it merits.

Whenever you hear about WW2 you will always hear about the mistreatment of Jewish people (and rightfully so). However, you almost never hear a thing about the way the Japanese treated war prisoners, which was utterly horrific. Perhaps the hushing up of it in the history books was all part and partial of their little deal with the US? You also hear very little about the way communists were treated and the huge influence they had on the overall outcome of the war.

The full focus is on Jewish people now, as if their lives somehow matter more than anybody elses. This in my view is by design. It's being used as a beating stick against anybody who speaks out about the agenda of the Israeli state and the strong media and political influences they have over other countries.

[Ozyhibby]

Whenever you hear about WW2 you will always hear about the mistreatment of Jewish people (and rightfully so). However, you almost never hear a thing about the way the Japanese treated war prisoners, which was utterly horrific. Perhaps the hushing up of it in the history books was all part and partial of their little deal with the US? You also hear very little about the way communists were treated and the huge influence they had on the overall outcome of the war.

The full focus is on Jewish people now, as if their lives somehow matter more than anybody elses. This in my view is by design. It's being used as a beating stick against anybody who speaks out about the agenda of the Israeli state and the strong media and political influences they have over other countries.

Think if you lived Asia you would hear a lot more about Japanese atrocities.



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[Fife-Hibee]

Think if you lived Asia you would hear a lot more about Japanese atrocities.



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Of course. But it's not any less vital to our history than the way Jewish people were treated.

[Ozyhibby]

Of course. But it's not any less vital to our history than the way Jewish people were treated.

You obviously feel the shouldn’t make such a big deal about it. Fair enough. Each to their own and all that.


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[Cataplana]

Of course. But it's not any less vital to our history than the way Jewish people were treated.

I agree, the story has become that WW2 often seems to be about the Holocaust.

I'd expect most school kids to know about Anne Frank, but would be surprised if many of them know about Clydebank, or Coventry .

[Fife-Hibee]

You obviously feel the shouldn’t make such a big deal about it. Fair enough. Each to their own and all that.

That's clearly not what I said. I just don't believe one set of lives matter more than others. Perhaps you do though?

[Ozyhibby]

That's clearly not what I said. I just don't believe one set of lives matter more than others. Perhaps you do though?

I don’t know of any other religious group who were singled out for mass execution on such a scale that they needed to industrialise the killing?


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[CloudSquall]

First .Net forces Eddie May to go with two up front and now it forces the Greens to stand down against Pete Wishart, there's no stopping us :agree::greengrin

https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1193160701709291520

[Fife-Hibee]

I don’t know of any other religious group who were singled out for mass execution on such a scale that they needed to industrialise the killing?

Is it only the deaths of religious groups that matter? :confused: What about the millions of Chinese that suffered at the hands of the Japanese? (and believe me, it was very much industrialised).

Sometimes I think people aren't even aware of the shocking things that went on beyond Germany during that period. It shows an incredible level of ignorance.

[Cataplana]

I don’t know of any other religious group who were singled out for mass execution on such a scale that they needed to industrialise the killing?


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Although the residents of Dresden can point to how they were killed industrially too. He's got a point, why does one group get so much of the attention in documentaries etc?

If you add up all the casualties, including Soviet citizens, you can see there are quite a few large groups who died in WW2.

[Moulin Yarns]

First .Net forces Eddie May to go with two up front and now it forces the Greens to stand down against Pete Wishart, there's no stopping us :agree::greengrin

https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1193160701709291520

Cheers, the proposed candidate is a total carcrash IMHO

[Ozyhibby]

Although the residents of Dresden can point to how they were killed industrially too. He's got a point, why does one group get so much of the attention in documentaries etc?

If you add up all the casualties, including Soviet citizens, you can see there are quite a few large groups who died in WW2.

I’m not diminishing any of the other casualties during the war but the holocaust was an attempted genocide and was the most brutal. It’s not that those lives were worth more than others, just that the purpose of those killings was the complete extermination of the Jews.
As horrible as Dresden was, our aim was not the complete genocide of the German people but just to bring down the regime. I’m not defending the bombing of Dresden though, just saying it’s different from mass extermination of a people.


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[G B Young]

I was struggling with that one, thanks. Never sure which one to use.

Corbyn could have handled it better, it a got a bit Dave Spart, but the way it is presented on the media he's Hitler.

Corbyn's been pretty quick to hang this guy out to dry despite the evidence being somewhat sketchy. You'd think he'd at least wait until a full investigation had taken place. Just shows you how desperate Labour are to stifle this issue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50360863

[Cataplana]

I’m not diminishing any of the other casualties during the war but the holocaust was an attempted genocide and was the most brutal. It’s not that those lives were worth more than others, just that the purpose of those killings was the complete extermination of the Jews.
As horrible as Dresden was, our aim was not the complete genocide of the German people but just to bring down the regime. I’m not defending the bombing of Dresden though, just saying it’s different from mass extermination of a people.


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It is, and I suspect we are both agreed, it was one aspect of the war, and the deaths caused by that *******.

[lapsedhibee]

Is it only the deaths of religious groups that matter? :confused: What about the millions of Chinese that suffered at the hands of the Japanese? (and believe me, it was very much industrialised).

Sometimes I think people aren't even aware of the shocking things that went on beyond Germany during that period. It shows an incredible level of ignorance.

Exactly. Peterhead was bombed 28 times during WW2, but do we ever hear about a Bluemoggeners' Memorial Day? No we don't.

[Cataplana]

Exactly. Peterhead was bombed 28 times during WW2, but do we ever hear about a Bluemoggeners' Memorial Day? No we don't.

More bombs were dropped on Malta than London.

[weecounty hibby]

First .Net forces Eddie May to go with two up front and now it forces the Greens to stand down against Pete Wishart, there's no stopping us :agree::greengrin

https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1193160701709291520
Saw that earlier on Twitter. Common sense from the Greens. They are back as my second vote again

[Jack Hackett]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ManufacturingNI/status/1192564837345353728

Johnson had to have been at least 4 or 5 glasses into the night by this point, Shirley?

Nope... that's him stone cold. Frightening, isn't it?

... and what is it with the orchestra conducting arm waves? Get's right on my thrupennies. It's always the rabble-rousers like Trump... and Hitler.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

he's going to be our next first minister








source: richard leonard

And our old friend Tornadoes. 😉

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TomJHarper/status/1193279348851314688

The Russian Tory donors story looks to be heating up.

[Mibbes Aye]

Exactly. Peterhead was bombed 28 times during WW2, but do we ever hear about a Bluemoggeners' Memorial Day? No we don't.

“First they came for the Blue Tooners, and I did not speak out.......” :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TomJHarper/status/1193279348851314688

The Russian Tory donors story looks to be heating up.
Potential dynamite.

[StevieC]

Cheers, the proposed candidate is a total carcrash IMHO

I agree.

[The Harp Awakes]

Potential dynamite.

Looks like this story is beginning to gain traction and pressure will build on Boris to publish the report. Are things about to go t1ts up for the tories in this election campaign I wonder?

[Fife-Hibee]

Looks like this story is beginning to gain traction and pressure will build on Boris to publish the report. Are things about to go t1ts up for the tories in this election campaign I wonder?

It all feels like it's by design. Are the tories trying to lose this election? They must have surely known before the call for an election that there was a good chance this would crop up? Could the economy be heading to **** and they're trying to jump ship before it does? :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

It all feels like it's by design. Are the tories trying to lose this election? They must have surely known before the call for an election that there was a good chance this would crop up? Could the economy be heading to **** and they're trying to jump ship before it does? :confused:

Depends if releasing it is worse than the flack they take for not releasing it? I think it only becomes a big issue if it gets leaked. If not it will fizzle out by the end of this week.


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[Ozyhibby]

Another tactical voting website, this time run by Gina Miller and it includes Scotland.
https://www.remainunited.org/
It correctly says ‘no recommendation’ for my Edin West constituency so a good start.


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[danhibees1875]

Another tactical voting website, this time run by Gina Miller and it includes Scotland.
https://www.remainunited.org/
It correctly says ‘no recommendation’ for my Edin West constituency so a good start.


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"Postcode could not be matched" - don't agree with all their policies but if it helps stop Brexit they'll get my vote. :aok:

[Jones28]

Sanjir Javid talking more about labours manifesto than his own on Andrew Marr.

[marinello59]

Sanjir Javid talking more about labours manifesto than his own on Andrew Marr.

That’s the manifesto that hasn’t been published yet.

[Jones28]

That’s the manifesto that hasn’t been published yet.

The one the Tories claim is going to cost £650,000,000 a day.

[Cataplana]

Sanjir Javid talking more about labours manifesto than his own on Andrew Marr.

That guy gives me the creeps. He reminds me of "The Hood" in Thunderbirds.

[Frankhfc]

It all feels like it's by design. Are the tories trying to lose this election? They must have surely known before the call for an election that there was a good chance this would crop up? Could the economy be heading to **** and they're trying to jump ship before it does? :confused:


Agree with you it does have that feel about it. Shouldn't matter though as independence is probably closer than its ever been before. The last referendum was an expected loss but I don't think it will be that way next time around. Quite possibly the rest of the UK are content to cut Scotland loose and let it go its own way.

[marinello59]

The one the Tories claim is going to cost £650,000,000 a day.

The very one. Meanwhile a Tory minister on Sky refuses to reveal their own spending plans.

[Hibbyradge]

Another tactical voting website, this time run by Gina Miller and it includes Scotland.
https://www.remainunited.org/
It correctly says ‘no recommendation’ for my Edin West constituency so a good start.


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Yes, that one seems better.

The other one recommended voting LD in my constituency, but Labour were clear 2nd last time.

Labour it is.

[lucky]

This election is not going to anywhere as clear cut as the so called experts are saying. In Scotland we’ve got the independence and Brexit which could sway people away from their normal voting intentions. In England and Wales I think lots of seats will change hands because of Brexit and the personalities of the leaders. I think we will end up with a hung parliament, which in itself will be interesting. If the snp hold the balance of power and they’ve already ruled out supporting BJ that does not give them a strong hand to get a deal with JC.

If Corbyn gets into number 10 then telling the SNP that a second referendum can take place if the majority of Scots vote for pro independence parties in the 2021 Scottish parliamentary election this would be a good compromise. Labour would have two years to prove their worth in government and the Scottish people could decide the independence question in 2022.

[Jones28]

The very one. Meanwhile a Tory minister on Sky refuses to reveal their own spending plans.

Javid was the same. He refused to reveal any detail about their own costings.

[Jones28]

That guy gives me the creeps. He reminds me of "The Hood" in Thunderbirds.

Aw ****! That’s why I find him so weird!

[Hibbyradge]

This election is not going to anywhere as clear cut as the so called experts are saying. In Scotland we’ve got the independence and Brexit which could sway people away from their normal voting intentions. In England and Wales I think lots of seats will change hands because of Brexit and the personalities of the leaders. I think we will end up with a hung parliament, which in itself will be interesting. If the snp hold the balance of power and they’ve already ruled out supporting BJ that does not give them a strong hand to get a deal with JC.

If Corbyn gets into number 10 then telling the SNP that a second referendum can take place if the majority of Scots vote for pro independence parties in the 2021 Scottish parliamentary election this would be a good compromise. Labour would have two years to prove their worth in government and the Scottish people could decide the independence question in 2022.

During an election campaign, you can ignore any any pledges about ruling out working without other parties.

It'll be a case of who blinks first should that situation arise.

The SNP will deal with the Tories if they're the only party which guarantees them Indyref 2.

Sure, they'd be keeping them in power, but that won't stop people in Scotland voting Yes. In fact, the prospect of continuing with Diana as PM, would shore up the pro-indy vote.

[Ozyhibby]

This election is not going to anywhere as clear cut as the so called experts are saying. In Scotland we’ve got the independence and Brexit which could sway people away from their normal voting intentions. In England and Wales I think lots of seats will change hands because of Brexit and the personalities of the leaders. I think we will end up with a hung parliament, which in itself will be interesting. If the snp hold the balance of power and they’ve already ruled out supporting BJ that does not give them a strong hand to get a deal with JC.

If Corbyn gets into number 10 then telling the SNP that a second referendum can take place if the majority of Scots vote for pro independence parties in the 2021 Scottish parliamentary election this would be a good compromise. Labour would have two years to prove their worth in government and the Scottish people could decide the independence question in 2022.

There is no way the SNP would accept that from Corbyn. [emoji23]
The SNP have a mandate now and if Labour want power then they will have to allow the referendum and a whole lot more. There will be more powers coming to holyrood no matter what.
And Labour will take the deal because why wouldn’t they?


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[lucky]

There is no way the SNP would accept that from Corbyn. [emoji23]
The SNP have a mandate now and if Labour want power then they will have to allow the referendum and a whole lot more. There will be more powers coming to holyrood no matter what.
And Labour will take the deal because why wouldn’t they?


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Why would Labour offer a referendum now? The SNP will have a choice back Corbyn or Johnston is back in power with no chance of a referendum. For the record I believe it should the a Scottish Parliament that decides when and if there should be a second once in a generation referendum.

[Frankhfc]

There is no way the SNP would accept that from Corbyn. [emoji23]
The SNP have a mandate now and if Labour want power then they will have to allow the referendum and a whole lot more. There will be more powers coming to holyrood no matter what.
And Labour will take the deal because why wouldn’t they?


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I agree.

Its looking as if its going to be either a labour led pact of parties or a tory one. If its labour and the snp then a soon to be referendum will certainly be part of the package and independence will win it. Even a tory led one would very probably break apart sooner or later. Independence appears very close indeed.

[Cataplana]

Why would Labour offer a referendum now? The SNP will have a choice back Corbyn or Johnston is back in power with no chance of a referendum. For the record I believe it should the a Scottish Parliament that decides when and if there should be a second once in a generation referendum.

I love the way people pick and choose which promises they remember. The once in a generation statement came out at the same time we were told a no vote was the only way to guarantee EU membership.

[marinello59]

I love the way people pick and choose which promises they remember. The once in a generation statement came out at the same time we were told a no vote was the only way to guarantee EU membership.

The difference being we were never told it was a once in a generation thing before we voted. That is a much repeated lie. Alex Salmond expressed a personal opinion about it probably being a once in a generation thing which has been taken completely taken out of context.

[Cataplana]

The difference being we were never told it was a once in a generation thing before we voted. That is a much repeated lie. Alex Salmond expressed a personal opinion about it probably being a once in a generation thing which has been taken completely taken out of context.

You could say the same things about The Vow.

[G B Young]

The difference being we were never told it was a once in a generation thing before we voted. That is a much repeated lie. Alex Salmond expressed a personal opinion about it probably being a once in a generation thing which has been taken completely taken out of context.

Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.

[G B Young]

Why would Labour offer a referendum now? The SNP will have a choice back Corbyn or Johnston is back in power with no chance of a referendum. For the record I believe it should the a Scottish Parliament that decides when and if there should be a second once in a generation referendum.

'Why Sturgeon's indyref pact with Corbyn will never come to pass':

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/euan-mccolm-sturgeon-s-indyref-pact-with-corbyn-will-never-come-to-pass-1-5042892

[G B Young]

During an election campaign, you can ignore any any pledges about ruling out working without other parties.

It'll be a case of who blinks first should that situation arise.

The SNP will deal with the Tories if they're the only party which guarantees them Indyref 2.

Sure, they'd be keeping them in power, but that won't stop people in Scotland voting Yes. In fact, the prospect of continuing with Diana as PM, would shore up the pro-indy vote.

Hard to believe that scenario will come to pass, though I guess the SNP helped to usher Thatcher into power so there's a precedent there :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Hard to believe that scenario will come to pass, though I guess the SNP helped to usher Thatcher into power so there's a precedent there :wink:

It is hard to see that happening, but my point is that because it's possible, Labour won't be able to just simply blank the SNP's request.

[Moulin Yarns]

Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.

As with everything on Hibs.Net it's all about opinions. Alex salmond gave his opinion in an interview.

There is an alternative definition of a political generation and that is a group of similar aged people who share political experiences.

http://oer2go.org/mods/en-boundless/www.boundless.com/political-science/definition/political-generation/index.html


Myself, I think a political generation is defined as the length of a political administration, in other words the length of a parliament. We are about to have our 3rd UK parliament since Alex Salmond referred to the once in a generation event.

[G B Young]

Nope... that's him stone cold. Frightening, isn't it?

... and what is it with the orchestra conducting arm waves? Get's right on my thrupennies. It's always the rabble-rousers like Trump... and Hitler.

I note that it's Labour who are borrowing from the Trump playbook today, denouncing Tory criticism of their spending plans as "fake news".

[CloudSquall]

Pre 2014: Fat Eck doesn't speak for us!

Post 2014: Salmond is the almighty Oracle who's opinion is law.

[SHODAN]

Labour gaining on the Tories in the polls, though still miles behind.

[Ozyhibby]

Labour gaining on the Tories in the polls, though still miles behind.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191110/317e0ed5bbfa1c08ad81ca6326a5dfc9.jpg



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[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191110/317e0ed5bbfa1c08ad81ca6326a5dfc9.jpg



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And a happy Sunday to you too.

[Ozyhibby]

And a happy Sunday to you too.

Sorry.[emoji23]


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[SHODAN]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191110/317e0ed5bbfa1c08ad81ca6326a5dfc9.jpg



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See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

[Moulin Yarns]

See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

Although, the snp percentage is up 0.1 and they get 13 more seats. What's not to like 😉

[Hibrandenburg]

'Why Sturgeon's indyref pact with Corbyn will never come to pass':

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/euan-mccolm-sturgeon-s-indyref-pact-with-corbyn-will-never-come-to-pass-1-5042892

If the SNP become king makers then Corbyn would sell his left bollock to become PM, he'd marinate it in a whisky sauce before deep frying it and serving it up to Sturgeon on a silver platter if it got him into number 10.

[Ozyhibby]

See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

Each election is local though. In a system where some parties are very local, fptp works best.


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[Smartie]

If the SNP become king makers then Corbyn would sell his left bollock to become PM, he'd marinate it in a whisky sauce before deep frying it and serving it up to Sturgeon on a silver platter if it got him into number 10.

I suspect Sturgeon would be looking for something different in exchange.

[G B Young]

See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

I agree, although I doubt SNP voters would if you recall that in the 2015 election they won 56 seats on the back of just 4.1 per cent of the vote. UKIP conversely won just one seat despite gaining 12.6% of the vote (nearly 4 million votes).

[weecounty hibby]

Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.
Or unless there is a substantial material change in circumstances. Sorry I can't do big giant letters for emphasis. Brexit and leaving the EU, something we were promised would not happen if we remained part of the union. Massive material change in circumstances and you well know that. Remember all the promises of how if you want to remain in Europe vote no. Well how has that worked out for everyone?

[SHODAN]

I agree, although I doubt SNP voters would if you recall that in the 2015 election they won 56 seats on the back of just 4.1 per cent of the vote. UKIP conversely won just one seat despite gaining 12.6% of the vote (nearly 4 million votes).

I'm an SNP voter and I'd gladly sacrifice some seats in the Commons for an end to winner-takes-all politics. The party themselves support this too.

25 seats means a lot more than 50 if no party is guaranteed a majority by virtue of winning the most votes. It means people will have to work together and compromise.

[marinello59]

I note that it's Labour who are borrowing from the Trump playbook today, denouncing Tory criticism of their spending plans as "fake news".

Because it is fake news. Labour haven’t published their spending plans yet.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Or unless there is a substantial material change in circumstances. Sorry I can't do big giant letters for emphasis. Brexit and leaving the EU, something we were promised would not happen if we remained part of the union. Massive material change in circumstances and you well know that. Remember all the promises of how if you want to remain in Europe vote no. Well how has that worked out for everyone?

It's amazing how often this is ignored (or swept under the carpet).

[Jack Hackett]

Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.

No. It's unionists who feel entitled to see that as the accepted view.

[Ozyhibby]

Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.

I think that since the former PM said that by voting NO Scotland would stay in the EU, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view as well. No?


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[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Graeme25210383/status/1193439882842169346

The game's a bogey in Wales...

Question: "What is it about Johnson that makes you think he will succeed?"

Answer: "he's been proven to be a liar"

[Bristolhibby]

See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

Also, Brexit Party get 7.8% of the vote, no seats.
SNP 3.2% of the vote (half the Brexit Party votes) they get 48 seats.

Utterly ridiculous.

J

[Glory Lurker]

Brexit Party getting no seats on 7.8% of the vote is actually a ringing endorsement of fptp!

[DaveF]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Graeme25210383/status/1193439882842169346

The game's a bogey in Wales...

Question: "What is it about Johnson that makes you think he will succeed?"

Answer: "he's been proven to be a liar"

It's complete airheads like that who will return a Tory majority. It's just a fail on so many levels.

[G B Young]

I think that since the former PM said that by voting NO Scotland would stay in the EU, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view as well. No?


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I don't disagree. However, the count had barely concluded in the Brexit referendum before Sturgeon launched fresh plans for an independence bid, doubtless convinced that Scotland would be so outraged that we'd all but rise up and storm Westminster. Instead the SNP ended up losing a hefty chunk of seats at the next election and Sturgeon was forced to think again. Essentially this oft-quoted 'lie' about staying in the EU wasn't the burning issue among the Scottish electorate that she'd assumed it to be. Of course the subsequent years of Brexit chaos have enabled the SNP to grasp this cudgel again in a bit to browbeat everyone into thinking 'the people of Scotland' are on a war footing about Brexit, overlooking the fact that over a million Scottish voters (including SNP supporters) actually voted to leave the EU. A minority yes, but only a few per cent less than the minority who voted for Scottish independence - and you could never say the SNP overlook the latter!

[G B Young]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Graeme25210383/status/1193439882842169346

The game's a bogey in Wales...

Question: "What is it about Johnson that makes you think he will succeed?"

Answer: "he's been proven to be a liar"

She also goes on to say he has 'balls of steel' and that as a long-time Labour voter she's now '100% Conservative'. Might not be the sharpest analysis but if that's the perception ordinary voters there have of his 'get Brexit done' policy compared to Corbyn's lack of a policy voters can understand then Johnson's on the right lines.

[G B Young]

Vaz brings what had been an impressive political career to an end in rather sorry fashion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50369905

[lapsedhibee]

Also, Brexit Party get 7.8% of the vote, no seats.
SNP 3.2% of the vote (half the Brexit Party votes) they get 48 seats.

Utterly ridiculous.

J

If Brexit Party targeted just 53 seats, like the SNP, instead of 600 odd, they might end up with a greater number of seats than zero.

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't disagree. However, the count had barely concluded in the Brexit referendum before Sturgeon launched fresh plans for an independence bid, doubtless convinced that Scotland would be so outraged that we'd all but rise up and storm Westminster. Instead the SNP ended up losing a hefty chunk of seats at the next election and Sturgeon was forced to think again. Essentially this oft-quoted 'lie' about staying in the EU wasn't the burning issue among the Scottish electorate that she'd assumed it to be. Of course the subsequent years of Brexit chaos have enabled the SNP to grasp this cudgel again in a bit to browbeat everyone into thinking 'the people of Scotland' are on a war footing about Brexit, overlooking the fact that over a million Scottish voters (including SNP supporters) actually voted to leave the EU. A minority yes, but only a few per cent less than the minority who voted for Scottish independence - and you could never say the SNP overlook the latter!

A few percent less than the minority who voted for Scottish independence

That would be your 1 million leave voters and I'll give you the 1.6 million who voted for independence.

Who do you think has more of a shout to be heard?

[Fife-Hibee]

Also, Brexit Party get 7.8% of the vote, no seats.
SNP 3.2% of the vote (half the Brexit Party votes) they get 48 seats.

Utterly ridiculous.

J

It really isn't. If that 7.8% of the UK vote was focused in an area containing 8.4% of the UK population, UKIP would win every seat in that area.

A proportional voting system would destroy localism and what we would get is a fully centralized government. FPTP despite it's problems, is the most workable system available.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It really isn't. If that 7.8% of the UK vote was focused in an area containing 8.4% of the UK population, UKIP would win every seat in that area.

A proportional voting system would destroy localism and what we would get is a fully centralized government. FPTP despite it's problems, is the most workable system available.

It's inherently unfair. No matter the case that can be made to defend it, first past the post is incredibly unjust and a form of gerrymandering.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Keith Vaz is the latest MP to announce he is stepping down at the forthcoming election. Rent boys, cocaine, poppers then lying to a Commons select committee about what he was up to.

[Fife-Hibee]

It's inherently unfair. No matter the case that can be made to defend it, first past the post is incredibly unjust and a form of gerrymandering.

I never said it was fair. But proportional voting (although it appears fair at first glance) doesn't work on a national scale, at least not on it's own. We could of course have a secondary tier of MPs. MPs for local and MPs for national, but that's more tax payers money going towards what many would view as excessive bureaucracy.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I never said it was fair. But proportional voting (although it appears fair at first glance) doesn't work on a national scale, at least not on it's own. We could of course have a secondary tier of MPs. MPs for local and MPs for national, but that's more tax payers money going towards what many would view as excessive bureaucracy.

The are a number of electoral systems available, including various forms of PR, some more proportional than others. What is undeniable is that FPTP is the least proportional system. It can't be right that parties with, for example, ten per cent of the national vote get no representation at all.

[Fife-Hibee]

The are a number of electoral systems available, including various forms of PR, some more proportional than others. What is undeniable is that FPTP is the least proportional system. It can't be right that parties with, for example, ten per cent of the national vote get no representation at all.

They get 10 percent of the vote, but which areas of the country are they supposed to represent if that 10% is spread out over all areas?

[JeMeSouviens]

They get 10 percent of the vote, but which areas of the country are they supposed to represent if that 10% is spread out over all areas?

Look up STV as used in Ireland and N Ireland.

[Hibernia&Alba]

They get 10 percent of the vote, but which areas of the country are they supposed to represent if that 10% is spread out over all areas?

There are various forms of PR, but you are right to say the more proportional the system the less constituency based it becomes. More proportional systems do weaken the link between local voters and their representative and it's a trade off. Conversely, a party with several million votes under FPTP can end up without representation in parliament. The all or nothing of FPTP can't be fair, as it can leave millions disenfranchised.

[Ozyhibby]

The are a number of electoral systems available, including various forms of PR, some more proportional than others. What is undeniable is that FPTP is the least proportional system. It can't be right that parties with, for example, ten per cent of the national vote get no representation at all.

I would say that a party with 10% of the vote can still be a success in fptp. UKIP picking up a lot less than 10% of the vote managed to fundamentally change the Tory party and achieved their primary aim of brexit.
The greens are managing to get the Lib Dem’s to stand aside in seats to help them.



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[Bristolhibby]

It really isn't. If that 7.8% of the UK vote was focused in an area containing 8.4% of the UK population, UKIP would win every seat in that area.

A proportional voting system would destroy localism and what we would get is a fully centralized government. FPTP despite it's problems, is the most workable system available.

Struggling to see how you defend against my previous point. The percentage of U.K. vote to seats is undemocratic.

Don’t get me wrong, I loathe the Brexit Party. But you can see why they feel ignored.

I get the link to constituency. Perhaps the Scottish Parliament system that has constituent and list MSPs. This would be a start.

But it really is Turkeys voting for Christmas and nothing will change soon.

J

[Bristolhibby]

There are various forms of PR, but you are right to say the more proportional the system the less constituency based it becomes. More proportional systems do weaken the link between local voters and their representative and it's a trade off. Conversely, a party with several million votes under FPTP can end up without representation in parliament. The all or nothing of FPTP can't be fair, as it can leave millions disenfranchised.

Exactly, or voting tactically. I vote Labour in the European Elections (Regional PR) but have to vote Liberal Democrat in General Elections as my best opportunity to stop the Tories. It’s a two horse race.

J

[Colr]

Interesting reading and broken down to a level that might translate onto FPTP.

https://www.centrefortowns.org/blog/38-how-do-our-towns-currently-intend-to-vote

[Mr Grieves]

Farage has bottled it, making it easier for the tories.

[SHODAN]

Farage has bottled it, making it easier for the tories.

That's it. We're ****ed.

[Ozyhibby]

Obviously a pact has been made. His knighthood will follow shortly after.
Tories will win comfortably now in England. Only independence can keep Scotland in the EU.


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[Northernhibee]

Ironic that the man who wants the end of the NHS, workers rights uses today to announce this. A spit in the eye for all things that our country has fought for and is good for.

[Hibbyradge]

Obviously a pact has been made. His knighthood will follow shortly after.
Tories will win comfortably now in England. Only independence can keep Scotland in the EU.


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A kinghthood is a possibility.

A hard, no-deal Brexit is more likely.

[JeMeSouviens]

That's it. We're ****ed.

It's not good but it's not as bad as it might have been.

They're not standing against sitting Tory MPs but they *are* standing in seats the Tories are trying to take off Labour. It's widely thought that the Tories will lose seats to the SNP and the Libs in SW England, so to get a majority they have to make significant gains in Labour territory.

[Northernhibee]

Also to the Lib Dems and SNP - this is why you don't go for an election on Boris' terms.

[Ozyhibby]

Also to the Lib Dems and SNP - this is why you don't go for an election on Boris' terms.

The SNP didn’t vote for it on Boris’s terms. That was Labour.


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