SNP nonsense

[JimBHibees]

The thing is, even although they had an editorial viewpoint at the time to say they supported staying in the UK, they were actually one of the least Anti-Independence of all the newspapers.

That says more about how over the top the others went.

Used to read Sunday herald and guys like Iain Mcwhirter were I assume pro independence no idea if he is still there or not but did the Sunday herald not say they were pro Indy. Imo definitely an organised anti Indy campaign as some of the coverage is imo incredible would include BBC in the that

[JimBHibees]

Very good point. I don't know anyone under the age of about 45 that ever reads a newspaper. You still get the older generation who buy their daily paper who tend to be more unionist.

Actually think the prominence of certain newspapers with banner headlines is a thing particularly in supermarkets imo. People probably won't buy a paper but the headline is seen over and over.

[Ozyhibby]

Used to read Sunday herald and guys like Iain Mcwhirter were I assume pro independence no idea if he is still there or not but did the Sunday herald not say they were pro Indy. Imo definitely an organised anti Indy campaign as some of the coverage is imo incredible would include BBC in the that

Very few people read them these days anyway. It’s got so bad that they have stopped putting out circulation figures. They lost another 20% of their readers in 2020. A few of them won’t make it to the next referendum.


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[G B Young]

Used to read Sunday herald and guys like Iain Mcwhirter were I assume pro independence no idea if he is still there or not but did the Sunday herald not say they were pro Indy. Imo definitely an organised anti Indy campaign as some of the coverage is imo incredible would include BBC in the that

Sunday Herald doesn't exist any more. As you say, used to be a decent paper with a more 'modern' feel to it and its own staff, separate to the Herald. Nowadays the Herald just produces a Sunday version of the daily paper.

Macwhirter still works for them. Wrote a pretty scathing piece about the SNP's 'winter of discontent' yesterday so I'm not sure where he stands on independence these days.

[JeMeSouviens]

I used to think the Herald was quite pro-SNP but lately they seem to have adopted a more critical stance.

The National is the same publisher. Since they launched it, the Herald has gone much more hardline Yoon. I suppose they are trying to ride both horses.

[JeMeSouviens]

Newspapers are for old people.

They’re just writing the crap that the people who read them want to read.

That and pushing whatever line their rich owners demand.

[degenerated]

Used to read Sunday herald and guys like Iain Mcwhirter were I assume pro independence no idea if he is still there or not but did the Sunday herald not say they were pro Indy. Imo definitely an organised anti Indy campaign as some of the coverage is imo incredible would include BBC in the thatMcWhirter is still there, he doesnt come across as overtly pro indy anymore. He's more of a stirrer these days.
Neil McKay at the Sunday herald does claim to be pro indy but does his damndest to discredit the wider movement at every opportunity.

[G B Young]

McWhirter is still there, he doesnt come across as overtly pro indy anymore. He's more of a stirrer these days.
Neil McKay at the Sunday herald does claim to be pro indy but does his damndest to discredit the wider movement at every opportunity.

Neil Mackay is quoted in here, describing the SNP as "in an absolute mess....with multiple schisms...deeply riven, very dysfunctional and toxic"

Why is the SNP in a state of civil war and will it damage support for Scottish independence? | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/snp-sturgeon-salmond-cherry-scottish-independence-b1798353.html)

[Just Alf]

The National is the same publisher. Since they launched it, the Herald has gone much more hardline Yoon. I suppose they are trying to ride both horses.It's a real shame, folks buying papers probably gravitate to one that shares their world view, we could really do with something near the middle of the Indy debate that has content covering both 'sides'.

I'm definitely pro Indy but the National is altogether too one sided and doesn't ask enough questions IMHO anyways...

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[JeMeSouviens]

It's a real shame, folks buying papers probably gravitate to one that shares their world view, we could really do with something near the middle of the Indy debate that has content covering both 'sides'.

I'm definitely pro Indy but the National is altogether too one sided and doesn't ask enough questions IMHO anyways...

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It’s not just one sided, it’s one eyed, and the Herald and Scotsman are more and more it’s mirror image, sadly.

[G B Young]

Cherry not holding back about some of her 'SNP cohorts', citing 'performance histrionics redolent of the Salem witch trials'...

Joanna Cherry’s Diary: Why I was sacked, coming out as gay in the Aids pandemic, and turmoil in the SNP (newstatesman.com) (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2021/02/joanna-cherry-s-diary-why-i-was-sacked-coming-out-gay-aids-pandemic-and)

[Ozyhibby]

Cherry not holding back about some of her 'SNP cohorts', citing 'performance histrionics redolent of the Salem witch trials'...

Joanna Cherry’s Diary: Why I was sacked, coming out as gay in the Aids pandemic, and turmoil in the SNP (newstatesman.com) (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2021/02/joanna-cherry-s-diary-why-i-was-sacked-coming-out-gay-aids-pandemic-and)

Constantly attacking her parliamentary peers and presenting herself as a permanent victim has ruled her out now as a future leader. She is making Sturgeons position safer every day.


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[Peevemor]

Cherry not holding back about some of her 'SNP cohorts', citing 'performance histrionics redolent of the Salem witch trials'...

Joanna Cherry’s Diary: Why I was sacked, coming out as gay in the Aids pandemic, and turmoil in the SNP (newstatesman.com) (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2021/02/joanna-cherry-s-diary-why-i-was-sacked-coming-out-gay-aids-pandemic-and)

I like how you think Joanna Cherry is now worth paying attention to. :greengrin

The piece itself is surprisingly poor - apart from moaning she doesn't say anything.

[bawheid]

Constantly attacking her parliamentary peers and presenting herself as a permanent victim has ruled her out now as a future leader. She is making Sturgeons position safer every day.


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She’s coming across like a total clown recently. Shame, as she was an excellent parliamentarian and I had her down as a future leader. I imagine her little group will end up in a new party, no doubt backed by the loony fringe Wings element.

[G B Young]

I like how you think Joanna Cherry is now worth paying attention to. :greengrin

The piece itself is surprisingly poor - apart from moaning she doesn't say anything.

:greengrin

TBH I find her exceptionally hard to warm to, but if I'm reading the article right (and you're right it's poorly written) I'm sympathetic to her views on women's sex-based rights.

[Ozyhibby]

:greengrin

TBH I find her exceptionally hard to warm to, but if I'm reading the article right (and you're right it's poorly written) I'm sympathetic to her views on women's sex-based rights.

Me too. That’s not really the issue. It’s her constant ‘poor me’ whining that rules her out of any future leadership roles. She is just too thin skinned for politics. She would be better going back to practise law for her own good.
Nicola Sturgeon is very lucky she doesn’t have to face any online abuse. [emoji849]


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[weecounty hibby]

I actually thought she was a really good parliamentarian and did a lot of campaigning on various issues. She seems to have really taken the hump with various members of the SNP leadership and cant/won't let it lie. Seems to have all started with stuff about LBGTQ etc stuff that I honestly don't understand. Folk are folk to me regardless of colour, creed, sexual orientation or what they identify as. I saw her described as not a team player and that's a hard description to disagree with

[7 Up]

I actually thought she was a really good parliamentarian and did a lot of campaigning on various issues. She seems to have really taken the hump with various members of the SNP leadership and cant/won't let it lie. Seems to have all started with stuff about LBGTQ etc stuff that I honestly don't understand. Folk are folk to me regardless of colour, creed, sexual orientation or what they identify as. I saw her described as not a team player and that's a hard description to disagree with

If the article posted above is an indication, it seems she's going to double down on the behaviour that led to her being dropped from the frontbench. Too many interviews and articles hostile to the party leadership, way too many public spats with SNP colleagues and an unpleasant fixation on transgender people. It was Ian Blackford who reportedly told her 'you're not a team player', which seems like quite an understatement if anything.

[Berwickhibby]

McGarry going to have her date in court https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56015535

[G B Young]

McGarry going to have her date in court https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56015535

Have I missed something here? I thought she was tried and sentenced a couple of years ago for this? IIRC she pleaded guilty then tried unsuccessfully to retract her plea. I remember thinking what an awful mess she'd made of her life.

[7 Up]

Have I missed something here? I thought she was tried and sentenced a couple of years ago for this? IIRC she pleaded guilty then tried unsuccessfully to retract her plea. I remember thinking what an awful mess she'd made of her life.

It's a retrial.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50856660

[G B Young]

It's a retrial.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50856660

Ah OK, thanks. I never saw that news at the time.

I see the reasons for overturning the conviction and ordering a retrial weren't allowed to be reported. Is that unusual?

[Mr Grieves]

If Cherry reads this I think the most hurtful aspect won't be the 32% of SNP voters that back her sacking but the majority that don't give a ****.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-backed-majority-snp-support-over-joanna-cherry-sacking-says-poll-3130975

There's nothing wrong with Cherry having a different opinion but it's time to stop the tweets and articles undermining the party and Sturgeon.

[Future17]

Ah OK, thanks. I never saw that news at the time.

I see the reasons for overturning the conviction and ordering a retrial weren't allowed to be reported. Is that unusual?

Yes, very unusual. Whilst it could be for a few reasons, it seems likely that either the legal advice she was given or the Sheriff's decision was flawed and that publishing the detail of how it was flawed could jeopardise her defence.

I don't have any inside knowledge on this one so I'm speculating, but I'd guess it's probably both and that her "new" line of defence is one which she'd previously been advised was merely mitigation of a guilty plea.

[Ozyhibby]

If Cherry reads this I think the most hurtful aspect won't be the 32% of SNP voters that back her sacking but the majority that don't give a ****.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-backed-majority-snp-support-over-joanna-cherry-sacking-says-poll-3130975

There's nothing wrong with Cherry having a different opinion but it's time to stop the tweets and articles undermining the party and Sturgeon.

Just said on the Indy thread that I think this has worked very well for NS. Those trying to undermine her have shown themselves to not be leadership material and they are now all consigned to the back benches. SNP voters overwhelmingly back Sturgeon.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210211/5c86f48920b32fbbd22b12e3b5e737e2.jpg
Leadership potential?


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[G B Young]

From the Herald:

Jim Sillars calls for 'revolt' within SNP to sweep its leadership out of power
Jim Sillars calls for 'revolt' within SNP to sweep its leadership out of power | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19079195.jim-sillars-calls-revolt-within-snp-sweep-leadership-power/)

[Ozyhibby]

From the Herald:

Jim Sillars calls for 'revolt' within SNP to sweep its leadership out of power
Jim Sillars calls for 'revolt' within SNP to sweep its leadership out of power | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19079195.jim-sillars-calls-revolt-within-snp-sweep-leadership-power/)

When did Jim Sillars ever not call for a change in leadership of the SNP? [emoji23][emoji849]
I saw that article yesterday but given it was him I didn’t bother posting it.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210211/06e032e03bc9b6cb66577754bc6716d4.jpg
I’m almost certain she will chuck it soon. Probably resign from the party first and see out her term as an independent.


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[G B Young]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210211/5c86f48920b32fbbd22b12e3b5e737e2.jpg
Leadership potential?


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I wouldn't say calling out bullying on that (alleged) scale precludes her from leadership?

Nothing to do with her politics/views on GRA etc, but personally I'd say she just doesn't strike me as somebody who would carry vote-winning clout as leader, in a similar way to, say, May, Corbyn, Leonard or Carlaw. Just something about their demeanour quickly marks them down as unconvincing or voter-unfriendly (Starmer, although I hope to be proved wrong, is showing signs of going the same way).

[CropleyWasGod]

I wouldn't say calling out bullying on that (alleged) scale precludes her from leadership?

Nothing to do with her politics/views on GRA etc, but personally I'd say she just doesn't strike me as somebody who would carry vote-winning clout as leader, in a similar way to, say, May, Corbyn, Leonard or Carlaw. Just something about their demeanour quickly marks them down as unconvincing or voter-unfriendly (Starmer, although I hope to be proved wrong, is showing signs of going the same way).

You mean nippier than Nippy? :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I wouldn't say calling out bullying on that (alleged) scale precludes her from leadership?

Nothing to do with her politics/views on GRA etc, but personally I'd say she just doesn't strike me as somebody who would carry vote-winning clout as leader, in a similar way to, say, May, Corbyn, Leonard or Carlaw. Just something about their demeanour quickly marks them down as unconvincing or voter-unfriendly (Starmer, although I hope to be proved wrong, is showing signs of going the same way).

How many leaders spend their time constantly complaining about online trolls? They are too concerned with what they want to achieve. Cherry is all me, me, me.


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[G B Young]

You mean nippier than Nippy? :greengrin

Nobody's nippier than Nippy!

[G B Young]

How many leaders spend their time constantly complaining about online trolls? They are too concerned with what they want to achieve. Cherry is all me, me, me.


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I wouldn't claim to have followed her career closely, but is that really what she has constantly spent her time doing? As a long-serving and leading figure in the SNP movement I doubt she'd have been accorded that status if she was little more than a self-obsessed moaner. Considering the fact somebody was arrested over the online threats should she really just be expected to shrug them off?

I get why it might be easy to laugh off Jim Sillars, but 'wheesht for indy' sounds about right here when you see how quickly she's become something of a 'non person' among the party hierarchy.

[Peevemor]

I wouldn't claim to have followed her career closely, but is that really what she has constantly spent her time doing? As a long-serving and leading figure in the SNP movement I doubt she'd have been accorded that status if she was little more than a self-obsessed moaner. Considering the fact somebody was arrested over the online threats should she really just be expected to shrug them off?

I get why it might be easy to laugh off Jim Sillars, but 'wheesht for indy' sounds about right here when you see how quickly she's become something of a 'non person' among the party hierarchy.

The online abuse is out of order but if you're going to be a high profile politician then unfortunately you have to deal with it.

She's been reshuffled out of her position - something that's happened to higher profile MPs than her. For her own sake she should quieten down for the time being - she's quickly going from being a serious player to a figure of ridicule and she's worth more than that.

[Ozyhibby]

I wouldn't claim to have followed her career closely, but is that really what she has constantly spent her time doing? As a long-serving and leading figure in the SNP movement I doubt she'd have been accorded that status if she was little more than a self-obsessed moaner. Considering the fact somebody was arrested over the online threats should she really just be expected to shrug them off?

I get why it might be easy to laugh off Jim Sillars, but 'wheesht for indy' sounds about right here when you see how quickly she's become something of a 'non person' among the party hierarchy.

She needs to block and report any online abuse. Blocking these people is effective. They hate it. Once you block someone they can’t see your tweets and can’t reply or tag you in their tweets. Don’t give your abuser the attention they crave by constantly talking about it. Ignoring them is the best policy. Any threats of violence need to be reported to the police and then let them deal with it. By giving trolls the oxygen, she is inadvertently encouraging more of it. All of the advice out there for teenagers on dealing with this issue tells them to do the opposite of what Cherry is doing. She could do with some social media training.
Is this really why she got into politics? To spend every day complaining about the morons who infect the internet. Is it helping her achieve the things she wants to achieve?
I’m pretty sure Boris Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon get many multiples of the abuse Cherry gets but they don’t lose focus over it. They get on with the job.


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[Keith_M]

I often wonder if Social Media was actually a good invention, the way it has been abused so often by real nutters.


If Cherry, or anybody else, has been the subject of abusive comments like that, I'd like to think there was some way to punish the perpetrators. There really is far too much of this kind of thing happening now.

[Ozyhibby]

I often wonder if Social Media was actually a good invention, the way it has been abused so often by real nutters.


If Cherry, or anybody else, has been the subject of abusive comments like that, I'd like to think there was some way to punish the perpetrators. There really is far too much of this kind of thing happening now.

Takes about 1 second to block someone and you need never hear a peep from them again.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Takes about 1 second to block someone and you need never hear a peep from them again.


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Now there's a thought...... :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Now there's a thought...... :greengrin

I assume most on here have already blocked me and I’m totally comfortable with the thought that I’m just speaking to myself day after day. I’m usually to only person who agrees with me anyway.[emoji23]


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[Smartie]

I often wonder if Social Media was actually a good invention, the way it has been abused so often by real nutters.


If Cherry, or anybody else, has been the subject of abusive comments like that, I'd like to think there was some way to punish the perpetrators. There really is far too much of this kind of thing happening now.

https://twitter.com/JacksonRickun/status/1359189499142578176

[CropleyWasGod]

I assume most on here have already blocked me and I’m totally comfortable with the thought that I’m just speaking to myself day after day. I’m usually to only person who agrees with me anyway.[emoji23]


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Did you just say something?

[G B Young]

She needs to block and report any online abuse. Blocking these people is effective. They hate it. Once you block someone they can’t see your tweets and can’t reply or tag you in their tweets. Don’t give your abuser the attention they crave by constantly talking about it. Ignoring them is the best policy. Any threats of violence need to be reported to the police and then let them deal with it. By giving trolls the oxygen, she is inadvertently encouraging more of it. All of the advice out there for teenagers on dealing with this issue tells them to do the opposite of what Cherry is doing. She could do with some social media training.
Is this really why she got into politics? To spend every day complaining about the morons who infect the internet. Is it helping her achieve the things she wants to achieve?
I’m pretty sure Boris Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon get many multiples of the abuse Cherry gets but they don’t lose focus over it. They get on with the job.


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'Why didn't you just block him?' doesn't seem the like the right thing to say to a woman who has allegedly been threatened with rape.

Again, I don't know a lot about Cherry (and I'm aware there's an irony in me speaking up for her bearing in mind my views on the SNP) so I wasn't aware she spends every day complaining about internet abuse. However, to imply she should just toughen up seems harsh. The issue in question is a complex one but it's something she clearly feels passionately about so I can see why she would want to take a stand on it. Similarly, I've sometimes wondered by somebody like J K Rowling would want to get involved in a social media war of words but part of me also respects her for refusing to shy away from those who vilify her via their keyboards.

In saying all that, I suspect it's her loyalty to Salmond more than her going against the party line on transgender issues which has seen her cut adrift. I read that Blackford thanked everyone else involved in the reshuffle for their services but made no mention of Cherry.

[Smartie]

I think Cherry is just "difficult".

Difficult people can be a massive asset when they're motivated and pointed in the right direction.

When they're not, they're a nightmare.

I reckon Cherry, whilst a potent attacking threat at times, posed an even bigger threat in the "own goal" stakes.

[One Day Soon]

I assume most on here have already blocked me and I’m totally comfortable with the thought that I’m just speaking to myself day after day. I’m usually to only person who agrees with me anyway.[emoji23]


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You have at least one person who hears you because I haven’t blocked you. In fact I’ve never blocked anyone on here at any time since joining.

[Rumble de Thump]

You can't block people on Twitter. You can block accounts but people can keep creating as many accounts as they want. I would think most trolls will have multiple accounts on Twitter, which is why abusive people thrive on there.

[Hibrandenburg]

You have at least one person who hears you because I haven’t blocked you. In fact I’ve never blocked anyone on here at any time since joining.

You must have been tempted.

[One Day Soon]

You must have been tempted.


From time to time, but there are other ways of dealing with them. 😂😂

[cabbageandribs1875]

was this ever printed in any of the Scottish tory rags ? or have they all been too transfixed on the eck salmond story...as witnessed by the unionists getting h8rd-on's on the eck salmond thread :dunno:

£33 billion investment in Scotland’s future - gov.scot (www.gov.scot (https://www.gov.scot/news/gbp-33-billion-investment-in-scotlands-future/?fbclid=IwAR0kAFWOeShAzADU57fOada7dsk6Ypnurus9Etoe Xg6JRal6sNMnIeyekxc))



Published: 04 Feb 2021 14:32
Part of: Scottish Budget (https://www.gov.scot/budget/), Transport (https://www.gov.scot/transport/), Economy (https://www.gov.scot/economy/)
Supporting 45,000 jobs.

Significant capital investment in healthcare, education, transport and the environment over the next five years has been set out.

[RyeSloan]

BiFab sold today for less than £1m

Some return that on £37m (or maybe £52m depending on what your read) of public money.

Ouch.

[ronaldo7]

BiFab sold today for less than £1m

Some return that on £37m (or maybe £52m depending on what your read) of public money.

Ouch.

Aye, they'll be dancing in the streets of Raith tonight.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/business/business-news/1970080/new-bifab-owner-plans-to-bring-600-jobs-to-fife/

[CropleyWasGod]

Aye, they'll be dancing in the streets of Raith tonight.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/business/business-news/1970080/new-bifab-owner-plans-to-bring-600-jobs-to-fife/

At a rough estimate of £6k tax per worker, and 1000 new jobs, that's net income to the SG of £6m per year. Not counting the effect on the local economy, of course.

That's not a bad return on the investment, I'd say, if the business lasts.

[greenlex]

BiFab sold today for less than £1m

Some return that on £37m (or maybe £52m depending on what your read) of public money.

Ouch.
I wonder whose pal or relative ended up pocketing that tidy sum. :rolleyes:

[ronaldo7]

At a rough estimate of £6k tax per worker, and 1000 new jobs, that's net income to the SG of £6m per year. Not counting the effect on the local economy, of course.

That's not a bad return on the investment, I'd say, if the business lasts.

12 year lease being negotiated.

Speculating to accumulate and keeping people/families in work. It'll never catch on.

[One Day Soon]

BiFab sold today for less than £1m

Some return that on £37m (or maybe £52m depending on what your read) of public money.

Ouch.


Wow, £37 million for a business to go bust. Plus the additional loan facility of around £15 million. For a £1 million pound return.

They could have had another three innocent people maliciously prosecuted for that £37 million.

[RyeSloan]

At a rough estimate of £6k tax per worker, and 1000 new jobs, that's net income to the SG of £6m per year. Not counting the effect on the local economy, of course.

That's not a bad return on the investment, I'd say, if the business lasts.

Aha c’mon Crops yer not being serious. You’re a numbers man so you know full well that it’s nothing like a ‘not bad return’

The SG were about one third shareholders that means £52m spent for a return of £300k.

A loss of 99.4%


Yes there MAY be jobs created by this sale but seems pretty obvious that the sum is a nominal amount for the assets...so exactly the same type of money that would have been expected if the business had simply went into administration.

As for the ‘speculate to accumulate’ comment R7, honestly that made me burst out laughing. Exactly what has that £52m accumulated?

[Ozyhibby]

Aha c’mon Crops yer not being serious. You’re a numbers man so you know full well that it’s nothing like a ‘not bad return’

The SG were about one third shareholders that means £52m spent for a return of £300k.

A loss of 99.4%


Yes there MAY be jobs created by this sale but seems pretty obvious that the sum is a nominal amount for the assets...so exactly the same type of money that would have been expected if the business had simply went into administration.

As for the ‘speculate to accumulate’ comment R7, honestly that made me burst out laughing. Exactly what has that £52m accumulated?

Almost as bad a return on investment as a Tory PPE contract.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Aha c’mon Crops yer not being serious. You’re a numbers man so you know full well that it’s nothing like a ‘not bad return’

The SG were about one third shareholders that means £52m spent for a return of £300k.

A loss of 99.4%


Yes there MAY be jobs created by this sale but seems pretty obvious that the sum is a nominal amount for the assets...so exactly the same type of money that would have been expected if the business had simply went into administration.

As for the ‘speculate to accumulate’ comment R7, honestly that made me burst out laughing. Exactly what has that £52m accumulated?

The "return" is based on the 1000 jobs that the new owner is claiming to be creating. If that comes to pass, and the business lasts for a decent time, then yes, it is a decent return. And, if VAT, NI and CT are ever devolved, it could be an even better return.

I'm making no judgement on whether the initial investment was wise, but (by design or accident) if the business lasts then it was a good one.

[Jack]

The "return" is based on the 1000 jobs that the new owner is claiming to be creating. If that comes to pass, and the business lasts for a decent time, then yes, it is a decent return. And, if VAT, NI and CT are ever devolved, it could be an even better return.

I'm making no judgement on whether the initial investment was wise, but (by design or accident) if the business lasts then it was a good one.

All the savings on benefits for both governments too!

[One Day Soon]

Almost as bad a return on investment as a Tory PPE contract.


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Imagine being that bad...

[RyeSloan]

The "return" is based on the 1000 jobs that the new owner is claiming to be creating. If that comes to pass, and the business lasts for a decent time, then yes, it is a decent return. And, if VAT, NI and CT are ever devolved, it could be an even better return.

I'm making no judgement on whether the initial investment was wise, but (by design or accident) if the business lasts then it was a good one.

OK a massive stretch to attach the potentially future benefits that may be accrued through another parties development and growth of what is a moribund business with zero contracts and 29 staff as a return on the SG investment.


To be clear there is essentially NO business being bought here...they have no work and no contracts.

Basically the new owner has picked up some assets for just under a £1m.

Exactly what would have happened if the business had just been allowed to fail and go into administration.

So suggesting any future tax received from the utilisation of these assets by a new company going forward is a return on the £52m is actually not just a massive stretch it’s totally bonkers!

[One Day Soon]

OK a massive stretch to attach the potentially future benefits that may be accrued through another parties development and growth of what is a moribund business with zero contracts and 29 staff as a return on the SG investment.


To be clear there is essentially NO business being bought here...they have no work and no contracts.

Basically the new owner has picked up some assets for just under a £1m.

Exactly what would have happened if the business had just been allowed to fail and go into administration.

So suggesting any future tax received from the utilisation of these assets by a new company going forward is a return on the £52m is actually not just a massive stretch it’s totally bonkers!



Well it is a business based on fabrication I suppose...:faf:

[Berwickhibby]

Well it is a business based on fabrication I suppose...:faf:

:faf::faf: made me genuinely laugh out loud

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MareeToddMSP/status/1360695659456823303

Everyone's favourite ultra unionist Alex Cole got caught mouthing "**** off" in a rather angry way at an SNP MSP on zoom, his attempt at an apology is going down well on Twitter..

[CropleyWasGod]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MareeToddMSP/status/1360695659456823303

Everyone's favourite ultra unionist Alex Cole got caught mouthing "**** off" in a rather angry way at an SNP MSP on zoom, his attempt at an apology is going down well on Twitter..

There's the election poster for Edinburgh Western right there. 😆

[degenerated]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MareeToddMSP/status/1360695659456823303

Everyone's favourite ultra unionist Alex Cole got caught mouthing "**** off" in a rather angry way at an SNP MSP on zoom, his attempt at an apology is going down well on Twitter..He does have form for being abusive to women. Michelle Thomson and Devi Shridar have both been on the receiving end of it.

[CropleyWasGod]

OK a massive stretch to attach the potentially future benefits that may be accrued through another parties development and growth of what is a moribund business with zero contracts and 29 staff as a return on the SG investment.


To be clear there is essentially NO business being bought here...they have no work and no contracts.

Basically the new owner has picked up some assets for just under a £1m.

Exactly what would have happened if the business had just been allowed to fail and go into administration.

So suggesting any future tax received from the utilisation of these assets by a new company going forward is a return on the £52m is actually not just a massive stretch it’s totally bonkers!

I think you missed the number of "if's" in my posts 😀

Just to be clear, it's very unlikely that the SG will receive anything from the sale. As shareholders, they will rank behind the creditors and those involved in the sale itself.

[CropleyWasGod]

He does have form for being abusive to women. Michelle Thomson and Devi Shridar have both been on the receiving end of it.

It's a shame there will be no doorstepping in the coming campaign. I would have welcomed his visit 😂

[Keith_M]

It's a shame there will be no doorstepping in the coming campaign. I would have welcomed his visit 😂


When he visits Cropley Towers, would you set the dogs on him or just tell the Butler to 'see him orf, Jeeves'


:wink:

[RyeSloan]

I think you missed the number of "if's" in my posts [emoji3]

Just to be clear, it's very unlikely that the SG will receive anything from the sale. As shareholders, they will rank behind the creditors and those involved in the sale itself.

I didn’t miss any of the if’s to be honest.

It was the general principle.

You were suggesting that if the new holder of the assets created jobs that would be seen aa a return on the SG money.

That is simply not true. The SG money disappeared into paying off the huge trade creditors in the first instance when it got involved and has then been used to cover losses of the now failed company since.

Anything that rises out of the remains by way of another company buying and utilising the few fixed assets that remain cannot, and will never, be seen as a return on investment that was applied into the previous failed entity.

The outcome of this debacle has been for the assets to be bought from an administrator...which is exactly what would probably have happened in 2018 if it had been left alone by the SG.

So the only discernible difference in arriving at the same outcome is that one route would have cost the public purse zero and the other has cost £52m.

Suggesting that any IF that came to pass now would provide a return on that money I would respectfully suggest is just simply incorrect.

[G B Young]

This from the Herald. Am I wrong in thinking McKenna is a writer for the National or has he jumped ship?



NEWS (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/)

13th February Kevin McKenna: If the SNP loses its heart and soul what else can it offer?

By Kevin McKenna (https://www.heraldscotland.com/author/profile/75685.Kevin_McKenna/)

AS they sought to convince us that all would be well in an independent Scotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/), the SNP’s big heart did a lot of the heavy lifting. This party seemed to have discovered the Golden Mean of political engagement: they had a way of appealing over the heads of the political classes to convey a sense of kindness and compassion. In the age of empathy and inspirational messages on social media the nationalists communed with the spirit of the age.

It might not quite have been pictures of the sun bursting through clouds with messages like “let your heart turn the world’s mince into a nice lamb casserole” that startle you on Facebook from time to time. But this party, you know: they mean so well and they look as though they actually care about stuff.

When bumps and wrinkles appeared in the journey, like the annual GERS figures carrying with them the spectre of a fiscal black hole, the SNP was able to empathise the sting from them. This may seem a shallow approximation of the party’s approach on these occasions but it’s really not.

Since the dawn of democratic, civic engagement political parties have searched in vain for this elixir. You can have all the numbers in the world (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world_news/) marching in time to your message but in this millennial Age of Aquarius if you don’t have human, sensory appeal then you’re up the junction without an incense stick.

It helped, of course, that a family of sociopaths had moved in next door at Westminster. There you are inviting the neighbourhood children in to see the new Labrador puppies while the family next door are training their mutt for midnight dog-fighting contests in derelict railway sidings.

Even the Tories’ own leaders expressed alarm at all the ASBOs they were collecting. “You know what some people call us: the Nasty Party,” said Theresa May once. But, as Sir Keir Starmer is currently demonstrating, if you can’t beat them, join them and within a few years, Mrs May was ushering in the hostile environment (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/environment/) that led to the Windrush scandal.

As the Tories were being hollowed out by their scarecrows and knuckle-draggers, the SNP merely had to look kind and compassionate. Thus the politics (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/) of the baby-box emerged, carrying with it all the accouterments of a tender, rainbow state with its heart in the right place. Smacking was banned and a scheme was hatched to provide every child with a state guardian just in case the parents, you know … fell down on the job.

In Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland had its own empathy queen who, on gaining the leadership of the country, embarked on a two-year, selfie tour of Scotland like a latter-day Eva Peron. This woman, it seemed, could no wrong as she exuded kindness, warmth and an uncanny sense of kinship with women – especially women - across all generations.

And then you recall the words of the Tin Woodman in L Frank Baum’s The Wonderful Wizard of Oz which seem subversively to both reinforce and convict. “You people with hearts, have something to guide you, and need never do wrong; but I have no heart, and so I must be very careful.”

Those of us who dwell inside Scotland’s political crucible delude ourselves into believing that the world we inhabit matters beyond social media. That somehow, the multitudes menaced by unemployment and health (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/health/) inequality are transfixed by the casual eviscerations politicians and journalists inflict on one another.

The SNP’s committed party loyalists have taken refuge in this as the Alex Salmond inquiry has unfolded and while the gender debate rages among activists. “Ordinary people don’t care about which politician said what to whom and where,” they say, “they all think Nicola is doing a great job during the pandemic.”

Until a week or so ago they’d have been correct. But you sense in recent days, something – almost imperceptible – has begun to twitch. Research by Savanta Comres for The Scotsman has indicated a fall in support for Scottish independence for the first time in three months. Certainly, it still points to majority Yes support once undecideds are stripped out but it’s worth considering if there’s been a shift in the wind direction, a hint of something more seriously climactic beyond the horizon.
A suite of stories have gathered around these numbers, such as Jim Sillars conveying disgust at Humza Yousaf’s Hate Crime Bill to the point where he can no longer support the party. Meanwhile, so incompetent and obfuscating, at best, has the Scottish Government and civil service been at the Salmond inquiry that you sense the public is now actually stopping to have a look.

An overall impression is being conveyed here of an organisation that wants you to believe it feels your pain has now actually begun to inflict it. Nowhere has this been more apparent than the campaign of misogynistic abuse directed towards Joanna Cherry which has driven her, in her own words, to consider quitting politics entirely (at least the Tories were only nasty to people outside the party).

This culminated in an alleged threat of rape by a man after Nicola Sturgeon effectively set the hounds loose with a remarkably ill-judged statement about transphobia in the SNP.

Worse, some female members say the SNP is no longer a place where many women feel safe. Even more remarkably, Mr Yousaf’s proposed hate legislation risks criminalising women in Scotland for stating that while gender may be fluid, sex is binary.

Of all the stories indicating that this sewer running underneath the SNP has now broken the surface there is one sadder than all the rest. It’s the revelation that, more than a week after Ms Cherry revealed the latest abuse she has suffered, her leader and fellow feminist Nicola Sturgeon can’t bring herself to offer her support.
This party has lost its heart and without this it has little else to offer.

[Keith_M]

This from the Herald. Am I wrong in thinking McKenna is a writer for the National or has he jumped ship?
...





I've always just associated him with The Herald. I never knew he wrote for The National


Though, TBF, The National isn't a newspaper that I'd ever read, as it's just as biased (though on the other side of the debate) as The Daily Mail or Telegraph.

It's very difficult to find nowadays but I prefer a Media Outlet with a more neutral view.

[JeMeSouviens]

I've always just associated him with The Herald. I never knew he wrote for The National


Though, TBF, The National isn't a newspaper that I'd ever read, as it's just as biased (though on the other side of the debate) as The Daily Mail or Telegraph.

It's very difficult to find nowadays but I prefer a Media Outlet with a more neutral view.

The National and the Herald are produced by the same people, the "Herald and Times Group", owned by Newsquest.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210215/5092aa78be888588acfdb3f2bf755eea.jpg
Still playing the victim card. And she is using it a a rallying cry by indicating it is her opponents who are using Twitter as a call to arms against her.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

He does have form for being abusive to women. Michelle Thomson and Devi Shridar have both been on the receiving end of it.


wee wullie rennie has been very quiet about it

[degenerated]

wee wullie rennie has been very quiet about itHe has form for keeping quiet about things

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18266735.rennie-refuses-condemn-lord-steel-paedophile-inaction/

[Keith_M]

The National and the Herald are produced by the same people, the "Herald and Times Group", owned by Newsquest.


Thanks.

They definitely have a different political narrative, though.

[G B Young]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210215/5092aa78be888588acfdb3f2bf755eea.jpg
Still playing the victim card. And she is using it a a rallying cry by indicating it is her opponents who are using Twitter as a call to arms against her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, what a wimp. 'Man up' Cherry.

Seriously though, is there not a bigger issue raised here than Cherry simply hitting out after her sacking from the SNP front bench? No matter anyone's political stance, our MPs and MSPs should not be made to feel their personal safety is under genuine threat. We've seen how that can be taken to extremes in the case of Jo Cox, while Cherry's reference to 'calls to arms' puts me in mind of Trump and the attack on Congress.

[Ozyhibby]

Yep, what a wimp. 'Man up' Cherry.

Seriously though, is there not a bigger issue raised here than Cherry simply hitting out after her sacking from the SNP front bench? No matter anyone's political stance, our MPs and MSPs should not be made to feel their personal safety is under genuine threat. We've seen how that can be taken to extremes in the case of Jo Cox, while Cherry's reference to 'calls to arms' puts me in mind of Trump and the attack on Congress.

Which politician called anyone to arms in regard to Cherry?


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[CropleyWasGod]

Why has there been no comment on this by NS?

[Ozyhibby]

Why has there been no comment on this by NS?

To say what? That she condemns bullying on Twitter? That she condemns violent threats? If she did that she would have to do it every day because it happens everyday to most politicians. It happens to her a lot more the Cherry. Do we really want NS spending all her time on this issue like Cherry does?


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[CropleyWasGod]

To say what? That she condemns bullying on Twitter? That she condemns violent threats? If she did that she would have to do it every day because it happens everyday to most politicians. It happens to her a lot more the Cherry. Do we really want NS spending all her time on this issue like Cherry does?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure of the answer, hence my question.

Is JC trolling NS, as part of the war between them? Does NS believe her? If it wasn't so (potentially) serious, it would make for a decent soap opera.... or a boring one. :cb

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure of the answer, hence my question.

Is JC trolling NS, as part of the war between them? Does NS believe her? If it wasn't so (potentially) serious, it would make for a decent soap opera.... or a boring one. :cb

Hard to see what Cherry thinks she is achieving? She appears to want her opponents to come out and condemn the behaviour but when Kirsty Blackman did, Cherry used it as a way to attack her. This resulted in Blackman receiving threats online.
Cherry in danger of just ending up an online troll rather than a serious politician.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1361270926709575685?s=21

Not much support for Cherry according to this thread.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Hard to see what Cherry thinks she is achieving? She appears to want her opponents to come out and condemn the behaviour but when Kirsty Blackman did, Cherry used it as a way to attack her. This resulted in Blackman receiving threats online.
Cherry in danger of just ending up an online troll rather than a serious politician.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They're all trolling one another. NS put out a video recently condemning "transphobic" abuse, which seemed pointed at Cherry or at least very coincidental with a number of high profile young SNP activists condemning Cherry as transphobic. NS has never called out abuse Cherry has received, afaik.

[Ozyhibby]

They're all trolling one another. NS put out a video recently condemning "transphobic" abuse, which seemed pointed at Cherry or at least very coincidental with a number of high profile young SNP activists condemning Cherry as transphobic. NS has never called out abuse Cherry has received, afaik.

I’m pretty sure she has condemned online abuse in general. I don’t think she needs to start condemning individual cases of it or there would be no time to be first minister. I doubt Cherry gets half as much abuse as NS gets. Or as much as Johnson or Rees Mogg get. It’s a sad fact of life. I don’t want the First Minister spending all her time dealing with it though.


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[JeMeSouviens]

I’m pretty sure she has condemned online abuse in general. I don’t think she needs to start condemning individual cases of it or there would be no time to be first minister. I doubt Cherry gets half as much abuse as NS gets. Or as much as Johnson or Rees Mogg get. It’s a sad fact of life. I don’t want the First Minister spending all her time dealing with it though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, and that would be fair enough if she hadn't specifically taken to twitter to call out abuse dished out to the "other side" of the debate:

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1309868658991169537

Rhiannon Spear is prominent on the trans rights side of the fence.

[cabbageandribs1875]

get that git telt jeane ...


Phantom Power on Twitter: "Jeane Freeman - accept no substitute #protectourhealthservice https://t.co/k32XDLh7qE" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1361345753566838788?s=19&fbclid=IwAR3Bvsz-FYRC5s6shG3z0pKeluuI8CnwgQ-y2FWmTsEjqcCPpzQFchjY17k)


a little more privatisation creeping in.......soon enough that £350m/week will be going straight into tories back pockets


https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/150817330_2736201783307752_7401520213883698841_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=e9fgNAu-TakAX9Nf7OW&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=6ec253ef5c73791f5a03ad4273b811b2&oe=604F27CC

[degenerated]

get that git telt jeane ...


Phantom Power on Twitter: "Jeane Freeman - accept no substitute #protectourhealthservice https://t.co/k32XDLh7qE" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1361345753566838788?s=19&fbclid=IwAR3Bvsz-FYRC5s6shG3z0pKeluuI8CnwgQ-y2FWmTsEjqcCPpzQFchjY17k)


a little more privatisation creeping in.......soon enough that £350m/week will be going straight into tories back pockets


https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/150817330_2736201783307752_7401520213883698841_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=e9fgNAu-TakAX9Nf7OW&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=6ec253ef5c73791f5a03ad4273b811b2&oe=604F27CCThis from open democracy should set some alarm bells ringing

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/why-did-government-say-revealing-nhs-plans-not-public-interest/

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm in their shop twice a week but i'm delighted their distribution facility got a bloody nose for this...i don't imagine this is the end of it though

Tesco ordered by court to halt plans to cut thousands of pounds from workers' pay | Edinburgh News (scotsman.com) (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/tesco-ordered-court-halt-plans-cut-thousands-pounds-workers-pay-3134807?fbclid=IwAR3JH3S67tqFJ7gbdHKTk7994ac2Bki9D uBkiAHX4_wU7sw_oSLjtLdCpYw)


The judgement, which applies to the Livingston site only, means that Tesco is prohibited from unilaterally removing the “retained pay” element of workers’ wages as planned. The cash was awarded about 10 years ago and staff were told it would continue as long as they remained in the same role. But the company recently announced workers must accept a new contract or be fired and have to reapply for their jobs.

[cabbageandribs1875]

This from open democracy should set some alarm bells ringing

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/why-did-government-say-revealing-nhs-plans-not-public-interest/




has now told me that "it’s not in the public interest"

this phrase appears to be catching on whenever anyone asks a Question about their corruptness

i'l read the full article later ta

[7 Up]

https://twitter.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1361270926709575685?s=21

Not much support for Cherry according to this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lots of interesting findings there. Pretty incredible favourability ratings for Sturgeon and the Scottish Government considering they've been in government since 2007. At the opposite end of the scale, ratings for Johnson and the UK Government are pretty awful. On more niche topics, there's little support for Joanna Cherry within the SNP and quite strong support for GRA reforms. Well well well, it seems those who shout loudest on Twitter aren't necessarily representative of wider opinion.

[TrapperJohn]

Lots of interesting findings there. Pretty incredible favourability ratings for Sturgeon and the Scottish Government considering they've been in government since 2007. At the opposite end of the scale, ratings for Johnson and the UK Government are pretty awful. On more niche topics, there's little support for Joanna Cherry within the SNP and quite strong support for GRA reforms. Well well well, it seems those who shout loudest on Twitter aren't necessarily representative of wider opinion.

Don't understand how Joanna Cherry managed to get voted onto the SNP NEC in Nov 2020 with so little support ...
What was it again?... Yeah only 50 plus percent of votes cast.
Only real polls matter :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

Don't understand how Joanna Cherry managed to get voted onto the SNP NEC in Nov 2020 with so little support ...
What was it again?... Yeah only 50 plus percent of votes cast.
Only real polls matter :wink:

She was the most recognisable name on the ballot. Different if you asked members to choose between NS and JC.


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[TrapperJohn]

She was the most recognisable name on the ballot.

She was but there were other well kent faces that didn't retain their seats. Most members are savvy.


Different if you asked members to choose between NS and JC.
Or even ask members to choose between NS and independence! :wink:

[7 Up]

Don't understand how Joanna Cherry managed to get voted onto the SNP NEC in Nov 2020 with so little support ...
What was it again?... Yeah only 50 plus percent of votes cast.
Only real polls matter :wink:

The NEC is elected by conference delegates who must apply to register and be willing to pay for the privilege. Meaning perhaps two or three hundred(?) electors who are not necessarily representative of the entire party membership due to them being a self-selecting group. So yes I'd certainly consider the findings of a properly weighted poll conducted by a reputable polling organisation to be far more indicative of the views of the membership than any NEC elections.

[TrapperJohn]

The NEC is elected by conference delegates who must apply to register and be willing to pay for the privilege. Meaning perhaps two or three hundred(?) electors who are not necessarily representative of the entire party membership due to them being a self-selecting group. So yes I'd certainly consider the findings of a properly weighted poll conducted by a reputable polling organisation to be far more indicative of the views of the membership than any NEC elections.

I believe in real polls. If it matters people get out and vote.

The NEC was always elected by delegates...who went to conference and voted...because it mattered to them and their branch.

Things have changed with affiliate groups having a free pass onto the NEC. Sounds like Labour doesn't it?

[G B Young]

Fair to suggest the findings of this already-drafted report are pretty damning, given that the Scottish government want to withhold its publication until after the elections?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/criticism-over-snps-scandalous-delay-of-oecd-scottish-schools-review-qcsvvp8hg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56081250

[Keith_M]

I see Humza Yousaf was being criticized by Johann Lamont for refusing to answer the question of whether he believed there are only two sexes.

I think it's fair to hold policy makers to account, and I'm glad Lamont is trying to do that, but I felt (on reading the interchange between the two) that she's maybe just trying to get some negative publicity on this one, in light of the Joanna Cherry 'debate'.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19093782.justice-secretary-humza-yousaf-condemned-refusing-say-two-sexes/

[RyeSloan]

Fair to suggest the findings of this already-drafted report are pretty damning, given that the Scottish government want to withhold its publication until after the elections?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/criticism-over-snps-scandalous-delay-of-oecd-scottish-schools-review-qcsvvp8hg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56081250

I’d expect so but really it won’t matter a jot anyway.

Scottish politics is only about one thing, Indy. So the SNP have a free pass when it comes to anything like failing education reforms from a huge rump of their voters.

I’m sure when it does land we’ll get lots of mutterings about lessons to be learned (ironically), plenty of numbers thrown about with regards to ‘record investment’ and most probably another strategy paper and off we will go on our merry way.

On the flip side the opposition do little to promote any change...they seem to flit from one thing to another, hurling brick bats while completely failing to bother to put together a cohesive and coherent alternative.

And while I’m sure many SNP voters do care about this stuff it simply isn’t important enough to override the Indy desire nor, even if it was, are they being presented with a clear enough alternative.

It’s probably not the healthiest state of affairs but that’s the sum of it to my mind anyway.

[G B Young]

I’d expect so but really it won’t matter a jot anyway.

Scottish politics is only about one thing, Indy. So the SNP have a free pass when it comes to anything like failing education reforms from a huge rump of their voters.

I’m sure when it does land we’ll get lots of mutterings about lessons to be learned (ironically), plenty of numbers thrown about with regards to ‘record investment’ and most probably another strategy paper and off we will go on our merry way.

On the flip side the opposition do little to promote any change...they seem to flit from one thing to another, hurling brick bats while completely failing to bother to put together a cohesive and coherent alternative.

And while I’m sure many SNP voters do care about this stuff it simply isn’t important enough to override the Indy desire nor, even if it was, are they being presented with a clear enough alternative.

It’s probably not the healthiest state of affairs but that’s the sum of it to my mind anyway.

You're probably right, especially when you bear in mind that, despite Sturgeon's pledge that education was what she wanted to be remembered for, the often grim attainment stats don't appear to matter over much to those of an indepenence at all costs mindset.

[JeMeSouviens]

I’d expect so but really it won’t matter a jot anyway.

Scottish politics is only about one thing, Indy. So the SNP have a free pass when it comes to anything like failing education reforms from a huge rump of their voters.

I’m sure when it does land we’ll get lots of mutterings about lessons to be learned (ironically), plenty of numbers thrown about with regards to ‘record investment’ and most probably another strategy paper and off we will go on our merry way.

On the flip side the opposition do little to promote any change...they seem to flit from one thing to another, hurling brick bats while completely failing to bother to put together a cohesive and coherent alternative.

And while I’m sure many SNP voters do care about this stuff it simply isn’t important enough to override the Indy desire nor, even if it was, are they being presented with a clear enough alternative.

It’s probably not the healthiest state of affairs but that’s the sum of it to my mind anyway.

Hold on to your hat - I agree with this too. :agree:

[Ozyhibby]

I’d expect so but really it won’t matter a jot anyway.

Scottish politics is only about one thing, Indy. So the SNP have a free pass when it comes to anything like failing education reforms from a huge rump of their voters.

I’m sure when it does land we’ll get lots of mutterings about lessons to be learned (ironically), plenty of numbers thrown about with regards to ‘record investment’ and most probably another strategy paper and off we will go on our merry way.

On the flip side the opposition do little to promote any change...they seem to flit from one thing to another, hurling brick bats while completely failing to bother to put together a cohesive and coherent alternative.

And while I’m sure many SNP voters do care about this stuff it simply isn’t important enough to override the Indy desire nor, even if it was, are they being presented with a clear enough alternative.

It’s probably not the healthiest state of affairs but that’s the sum of it to my mind anyway.


You're probably right, especially when you bear in mind that, despite Sturgeon's pledge that education was what she wanted to be remembered for, the often grim attainment stats don't appear to matter over much to those of an indepenence at all costs mindset.

Totally agree with you both. Until there is a 2nd referendum post brexit there is zero chance of Scottish politics moving on the Indy debate. Until that vote is had, there will be no room for any other issue. Whether you are pro or anti Indy, that has to be obvious to everyone.
I think the SNP should be doing much better with education but luckily for them, nobody is offering a plan to do it better anyway. So they will get my vote because I want Independence.
Right now, Scotland is stuck. Nothing can change until we decide where decisions get made. Edinburgh or London.


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[RyeSloan]

Hold on to your hat - I agree with this too. :agree:

[emoji23]. Just as well I was sitting down when I read this!

[ronaldo7]

I’d expect so but really it won’t matter a jot anyway.

Scottish politics is only about one thing, Indy. So the SNP have a free pass when it comes to anything like failing education reforms from a huge rump of their voters.

I’m sure when it does land we’ll get lots of mutterings about lessons to be learned (ironically), plenty of numbers thrown about with regards to ‘record investment’ and most probably another strategy paper and off we will go on our merry way.

On the flip side the opposition do little to promote any change...they seem to flit from one thing to another, hurling brick bats while completely failing to bother to put together a cohesive and coherent alternative.

And while I’m sure many SNP voters do care about this stuff it simply isn’t important enough to override the Indy desire nor, even if it was, are they being presented with a clear enough alternative.

It’s probably not the healthiest state of affairs but that’s the sum of it to my mind anyway.

Their are reasons why Indy is the only show in town. It's policy driven austerity by the ideologues in Westminster against our own fairness agenda.

Here's an Oxford professor telling us as much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQM0mK620ZQ

The strapline used a wee while ago springs to mind. Bairns not bombs. :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

A9000 Forth Road Bridge - Weather, The A9000 (Forth Road Bridge) is closed to Double Decker Buses due to high winds affecting driving conditions. https://t.co/GtnR6z5DHE #TSIncident

Bloody SNP to blame for double decker buses having to use the wind protected Queensferry Crossing. 😉

[CloudSquall]

Iain Macwhirter unleashing his inner Wings Over Scotland with a rant about the "SNP woke-right"

https://twitter.com/iainmacwhirter/status/1369599466379042817

[Berwickhibby]

Iain Macwhirter unleashing his inner Wings Over Scotland with a rant about the "SNP woke-right"

https://twitter.com/iainmacwhirter/status/1369599466379042817

I may not agree with Iain Macwhirter's choice of words but the Hate Crime legislation is awful and will criminalise or introduce many to the Criminal Justice System for having an opinion. It needs ripped up and rewritten

[Mon Dieu4]

I may not agree with Iain Macwhirter's choice of words but the Hate Crime legislation is awful and will criminalise or introduce many to the Criminal Justice System for having an opinion. It needs ripped up and rewritten

Yep I vote SNP and I'd rather have free speech, the only caveat being inciting violence

[JeMeSouviens]

Iain Macwhirter unleashing his inner Wings Over Scotland with a rant about the "SNP woke-right"

https://twitter.com/iainmacwhirter/status/1369599466379042817

Another one who's been totally consumed by the gender wars.

[Kato]

Another one who's been totally consumed by the gender wars.

Noticed this on his timeline.

https://twitter.com/iainmacwhirter/status/1369285515057446915

You see the same effect in the press as they process which lie is taking most hold on their readers.

[ronaldo7]

24425 :greengrin

[G B Young]

A curious 'exclusive'. I'm guessing now that Corbyn's been toppled, the JC is short of 'platform-sharing' stories...

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/jcnsag.jpg

[Betty Boop]

Non stick Nic will know all about it if the JC get in to gear.

[cabbageandribs1875]

24430


well done the voters of Livingston South

[Hibrandenburg]

A curious 'exclusive'. I'm guessing now that Corbyn's been toppled, the JC is short of 'platform-sharing' stories...

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/jcnsag.jpg

And the Queen shook hands with Martin McGuiness, doesn't mean she sings "Up the Ra" whilst out walking her corgis.

[Peevemor]

A curious 'exclusive'. I'm guessing now that Corbyn's been toppled, the JC is short of 'platform-sharing' stories...

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/jcnsag.jpgWhat are you going to scrape up for us next?

[JimBHibees]

A curious 'exclusive'. I'm guessing now that Corbyn's been toppled, the JC is short of 'platform-sharing' stories...

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/jcnsag.jpg

How many papers do you buy in the morning? :greengrin

What a bizarre story?

[JimBHibees]

What are you going to scrape up for us next?

Indeed. Next one will be Sturgeon was rude to Ma Broon in the Sunday post. :greengrin

[Peevemor]

Meanwhile...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210312/0836ee5938f1ab4c79d8bbbbe75b554f.jpg

[Keith_M]

A curious 'exclusive'. I'm guessing now that Corbyn's been toppled, the JC is short of 'platform-sharing' stories...

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/jcnsag.jpg


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. 49obMbMJnCyKByX8Un3eDgHaGm%26pid%3DApi&f=1

[lapsedhibee]

Meanwhile...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210312/0836ee5938f1ab4c79d8bbbbe75b554f.jpg

Everything's a plot now. SG plots to pay nurses more than 1%. A bunch of skullduggers, so they are.

[Keith_M]

Another one for GBY....


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-elXi-rkKcRw%2FUMMjfYduW3I%2FAAAAAAAAJr8%2FL7mcgjkFDQE%2 Fs1600%2Fsavchar.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[Keith_M]

Any more for any more?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.images.express.co.uk%2Fimg%2F dynamic%2F20%2F590x%2Fsecondary%2FJimmy-Savile-with-Elizabeth-I-671940.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[Berwickhibby]

And the Queen shook hands with Martin McGuiness, doesn't mean she sings "Up the Ra" whilst out walking her corgis.

FFS....are you sitting down....I agree with you 100% :faf:

[Keith_M]

FFS....are you sitting down....I agree with you 100% :faf:


Wow, don't tell me you two have kissed and made up?


:greengrin

[Berwickhibby]

Wow, don't tell me you two have kissed and made up?


:greengrin

Lol 🤣 :na na::na na:

[Keith_M]

Lol 🤣 :na na::na na:


Too much?


Sorry

:greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

FFS....are you sitting down....I agree with you 100% :faf:

Just picked myself off the floor. I'm sure there's a lot we could agree on, but where's the fun in that? :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

Wow, don't tell me you two have kissed and made up?


:greengrin

You Weymess boys are a **** stirring bunch.

[Bostonhibby]

Thatcher did enjoy an actual special relationship with her good friend the mass murderer of his own people General Pinochet.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210313/a112a978e4a3dee032067b2167bfbfe1.jpg

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

You Weymess boys are a **** stirring bunch.


How dare you!

I lived in Inchview Crescent, ya **** stirrer!!!!

[Keith_M]

Thatcher did enjoy an actual special relationship with her good friend the mass murderer of his own people General Pinochet.

[photo removed]




Maggie and South African Apartheid era President Botha.


https://world.time.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2013/04/78990186.jpg?w=360&h=240&crop=1

For those not aware, Maggie put the kibosh on a number of attempts to put sanctions on South Africa during the apartheid era.

https://world.time.com/2013/04/08/margaret-thatchers-foreign-policy-was-the-iron-lady-on-the-wrong-side-of-history/

[Bostonhibby]

Maggie and South African Apartheid era President Botha.


https://world.time.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2013/04/78990186.jpg?w=360&h=240&crop=1

For those not aware, Maggie put the kibosh on a number of attempts to put sanctions on South Africa during the apartheid era.

https://world.time.com/2013/04/08/margaret-thatchers-foreign-policy-was-the-iron-lady-on-the-wrong-side-of-history/The current Nasty party will be getting all misty eyed about the good old days when they thought we were a player on the world stage.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

How dare you!

I lived in Inchview Crescent, ya **** stirrer!!!!

An extension of Weymess rejects. 😉

[Keith_M]

An extension of Weymess rejects. ��


Right, I'm putting you on ignore!



Actually, scrub that, you'd probably consider that as me doing you a big favour...

[Moulin Yarns]

You Weymess boys are a **** stirring bunch.

I'm still trying to figure out if it's East weymess, West weymess or coaltown of weymess 😉

[Hibrandenburg]

Right, I'm putting you on ignore!



Actually, scrub that, you'd probably consider that as me doing you a big favour...

Bugger! Sussed.

[Keith_M]

I'm still trying to figure out if it's East weymess, West weymess or coaltown of weymess ��


None of the above. ;-)


It's a ****ty wee housing scheme in Wallyford (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wemyss+Gardens,+Wallyford,+Musselburgh/@55.9395209,-3.0114479,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4887bbac7407c9f1:0xd3ce593a4ee9c 23b!8m2!3d55.9400609!4d-3.0090017).

[Berwickhibby]

None of the above. ;-)


It's a ****ty wee housing scheme in Wallyford (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wemyss+Gardens,+Wallyford,+Musselburgh/@55.9395209,-3.0114479,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4887bbac7407c9f1:0xd3ce593a4ee9c 23b!8m2!3d55.9400609!4d-3.0090017).

I am originally from a quaint fishing village on the Forth.....Muirhouse :greengrin

[Keith_M]

I am originally from a quaint fishing village on the Forth.....Muirhouse :greengrin


Quaint?


Ehm, yeah, if you say so.

:greengrin

[Berwickhibby]

Quaint?


Ehm, yeah, if you say so.

:greengrin

Mmmm if there ever was a wooosh!! Moment 😉

[Bostonhibby]

Mmmm if there ever was a wooosh!! Moment [emoji6]Indeed, not even a fishing village[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[G B Young]

Whatever anyone's view of Wings (or the SNP), the Chris Hanlon tweet (in response to Wings' publishing of the SNP's draft manifesto) is just plain funny. The Sir Humphrey comparison is spot on :greengrin

https://wingsoverscotland.com/distinctions-and-differences/#more-127897

[Moulin Yarns]

Whatever anyone's view of Wings (or the SNP), the Chris Hanlon tweet (in response to Wings' publishing of the SNP's draft manifesto) is just plain funny. The Sir Humphrey comparison is spot on :greengrin

https://wingsoverscotland.com/distinctions-and-differences/#more-127897

Wings didn't publish any draft manifesto. It was one person's ideas to put to the executive.

[Ozyhibby]

Whatever anyone's view of Wings (or the SNP), the Chris Hanlon tweet (in response to Wings' publishing of the SNP's draft manifesto) is just plain funny. The Sir Humphrey comparison is spot on :greengrin

https://wingsoverscotland.com/distinctions-and-differences/#more-127897

It’s funny how popular Wings has become for unionists. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

It’s funny how popular Wings has become for unionists. [emoji23]



A bit like Alex Salmond.

[Berwickhibby]

It’s funny how popular Wings has become for unionists. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not me he is still a horrible creature......said it on more than one occasion that Campbell is a parasite, a leach conning people out of money. Would not waste the bandwidth

[Keith_M]

Mmmm if there ever was a wooosh!! Moment 😉


I got the intention of your post, BH, and was merely joining in.

[Ozyhibby]

I see the railways are being taken back into public ownership in Scotland. This is one area where I think that is a good idea. I disagree with taking over shipyards and airports etc but I think the railways provide a much clearer benefit by being publicly owned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

I see the railways are being taken back into public ownership in Scotland. This is one area where I think that is a good idea. I disagree with taking over shipyards and airports etc but I think the railways provide a much clearer benefit by being publicly owned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is that a decision by the current SG, or a manifesto pledge?

And is it just the lines, or the operators?

[Ozyhibby]

Is that a decision by the current SG, or a manifesto pledge?

And is it just the lines, or the operators?

I assume just the operators. Pretty sure track still owned by Network Rail and therefore UK govt?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibby70]

I assume just the operators. Pretty sure track still owned by Network Rail and therefore UK govt?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just got an image of them pulling the tracks back from Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

Just got an image of them pulling the tracks back from Scotland.

Now the SG own the operator I’m sure they will find a way to increase the charges for using the lines.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

some may recognise the murderous little PoS in this photo....the one on the right, not the Pervert protector or the Pervert
No, who he?

[cabbageandribs1875]

No, who he?


Dunblane

[lapsedhibee]

Dunblane

Ah :aok:

[James310]

some may recognise the murderous little PoS in this photo....the one on the right, not the Pervert protector or the Pervert
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article88797.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/image-2-for-jimmy-savile-life-in-pictures-gallery-807221796.jpg



apologies, their really should be a seperate thread for the royal parasites and how many perverts they have protected/do protect

FYI - that is not Thomas Hamilton. It is Iain Thornber.

[cabbageandribs1875]

FYI - that is not Thomas Hamilton. It is Iain Thornber.

is it really ? in that case i'l appropriately delete it, there was a rather long thread on fb about it and i didn't read anyone discounting it, apologies to whoever iain thornber is :agree:

but i did also google "photos of thomas hamilton with prince charles" and that's the first one up, maybe google just concentrated on the prince charles search

[Max_Shah]

Panorama: BBC One - Tonight - 20:00.

Executive Producer - Shelley Jofre

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/nf88jn/panorama--salmond-v-sturgeon---panorama-salmond-v-sturgeon/

Hiya Nicola, Hiya Shelley Pal...

https://archive.ph/cahJO

(https://archive.ph/cahJO)https://archive.ph/cahJO/1e11cbaa3c24fac634d9226e0a00ff9f8507878f.jpg

A quiet stroll...

https://archive.ph/cahJO/e82495186185bd9504f5c04023dc6bf19535f983.jpg

Friends Reunited

https://archive.ph/cahJO/1abf42bb1fceac97bac430a0c829bc6720f5ea64.jpg

A chance encounter...

Nicola and Shelley BOMFA.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Panorama: BBC One - Tonight - 20:00.

Executive Producer - Shelley Jofre

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/nf88jn/panorama--salmond-v-sturgeon---panorama-salmond-v-sturgeon/

Hiya Nicola, Hiya Shelley Pal...

https://archive.ph/cahJO

(https://archive.ph/cahJO)https://archive.ph/cahJO/1e11cbaa3c24fac634d9226e0a00ff9f8507878f.jpg

A quiet stroll...

https://archive.ph/cahJO/e82495186185bd9504f5c04023dc6bf19535f983.jpg

Friends Reunited

https://archive.ph/cahJO/1abf42bb1fceac97bac430a0c829bc6720f5ea64.jpg

A chance encounter...

Nicola and Shelley BOMFA.

What does BOMFA mean?

[CropleyWasGod]

What does BOMFA mean?

It's a place in Ghana.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It's a place in Ghana.

Aye, I Googled it too! ☺

[weecounty hibby]

Yip, that Panorama show was clearly biased towards the FM! Val McDairmid and Mike Russell v murdo Fraser, Cole-Hamilton, Bailie, Andrew Neil, Campbell, Macaskill. Hatchet job and another example of the power of the British state to produce propaganda when on the back foot. Every member of that committee who were in an opposition party had made their minds up long ago in how they would land.

[Max_Shah]

It's a place in Ghana.
http://uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu7ahxou3zqc35fpw5d4ific edzyqd.onion/data/avatars/o/69/69286.jpg?1616004188

[JimBHibees]

Yip, that Panorama show was clearly biased towards the FM! Val McDairmid and Mike Russell v murdo Fraser, Cole-Hamilton, Bailie, Andrew Neil, Campbell, Macaskill. Hatchet job and another example of the power of the British state to produce propaganda when on the back foot. Every member of that committee who were in an opposition party had made their minds up long ago in how they would land.

BBC at its best. State propaganda time after time. Goebbels would be proud.

[Max_Shah]

Yip, that Panorama show was clearly biased towards the FM! Val McDairmid and Mike Russell v murdo Fraser, Cole-Hamilton, Bailie, Andrew Neil, Campbell, Macaskill. Hatchet job and another example of the power of the British state to produce propaganda when on the back foot. Every member of that committee who were in an opposition party had made their minds up long ago in how they would land.

Literal criminal offense for committee members.

Big if true. Gonna need a source other than "trust me bro" or "some dude on twitter"

You watched Shelley's expose and the above statement is your red hot take. You'll get your reformist bourgeois majority but the cost of it will not become apparent for some time.

The more they claim to be comrades of like mind the easier it becomes to divide them with the thorns of suspicion and doubt.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu7ahxou3zqc35fpw5d4ific edzyqd.onion/data/avatars/o/69/69286.jpg?1616004188


I'm all for subtlety, but that one has me snow-blinded.:greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

Literal criminal offense for committee members.

Big if true. Gonna need a source other than "trust me bro" or "some dude on twitter"

You watched Shelley's expose and the above statement is your red hot take. You'll get your reformist bourgeois majority but the cost of it will not become apparent for some time.

The more they claim to be comrades of like mind the easier it becomes to divide them with the thorns of suspicion and doubt.
I'm not really sure I understand your message here but I'll try to explain how I come to the conclusion that they had made their minds up. Baillie, Fraser and Cole-Hamilton had all demanded a resignation and stated that the FM had broken the ministerial code BEFORE she have evidence. Davidson and Ross also called for a resignation prior to her evidence.
Also I literally don't believe that it's literally a criminal offence to make your mind up on something early. Not professional but not criminal I wouldn't think

[CapitalGreen]

It's a place in Ghana.

I wonder if they have a supporters club 🤔

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm not really sure I understand your message here but I'll try to explain how I come to the conclusion that they had made their minds up. Baillie, Fraser and Cole-Hamilton had all demanded a resignation and stated that the FM had broken the ministerial code BEFORE she have evidence. Davidson and Ross also called for a resignation prior to her evidence.
Also I literally don't believe that it's literally a criminal offence to make your mind up on something early. Not professional but not criminal I wouldn't think

:agree: Oh what a parcel of rogues in a nation.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It's a place in Ghana.

What about in the context of this thread?

[CropleyWasGod]

What about in the context of this thread?

I'm taking a stab at "best of mates for always".

Still scoobied, though.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm taking a stab at "best of mates for always".

Still scoobied, though.

Perhaps Max can provide us with some enlightenment, I hope it's nowt to do with France! ☺

[Hiber-nation]

Perhaps Max can provide us with some enlightenment, I hope it's nowt to do with France! ☺

Max's posts (even blank ones) are usually quite entertaining despite the fact that I don't understand a word of them.

[lucky]

Now the SG own the operator I’m sure they will find a way to increase the charges for using the lines.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The scotrail franchise is returning to public ownership in a years time. NR is owned by the 4 nations of the U.K. control over it management is run by the DfT and Transport Scotland. The only area that the Scottish Parliament don’t have control over is infrastructure projects. It makes sense to devolve all of rail to Scotland however Network rail have big debts and Scotland would need to take it share. Not all the unions support the break up of NR, the RMT are against but are pro independence, Aslef are in favour but against independence. TSSA anti anything SNP want.

[cabbageandribs1875]

12,500 sign up for SNP membership in March, so far


damn good stuff

[Skol]

12,500 sign up for SNP membership in March, so far


damn good stuff

Yes that claim has been circulating ever since sturgeon appeared before the committee. It almost sounds too good to be true. It seems official numbers are not published and so it isn’t possible to validate its accuracy.

I see it’s been reported three members of the snp finance and audit committee resigned yesterday as they have not been given access to the books.

[allmodcons]

Yes that claim has been circulating ever since sturgeon appeared before the committee. It almost sounds too good to be true. It seems official numbers are not published and so it isn’t possible to validate its accuracy.

I see it’s been reported three members of the snp finance and audit committee resigned yesterday as they have not been given access to the books.

I can tell you for sure that our branch has seen an increase of plus 10% in membership in the last month.

Where are you getting your info regarding the SNP Finance & Audit Committee?

[Moulin Yarns]

I can tell you for sure that our branch has seen an increase of plus 10% in membership in the last month.

Where are you getting your info regarding the SNP Finance & Audit Committee?

Rumours on twitter from 16 hours ago. If true you would imagine that the media would have picked up on it.

[Skol]

It’s in the Sunday times today. Rather oddly tacked on the end of an article about the greens.

[allmodcons]

Rumours on twitter from 16 hours ago. If true you would imagine that the media would have picked up on it.

Unconfirmed via WoS :rolleyes:

[Skol]

Meanwhile, it emerged last night that three members of the SNP’s finance and audit committee have resigned amid claims they cannot carry out their jobs. It follows reports that SNP chief executive Peter Murrell, Sturgeon’s husband, has refused them full access to the party’s accounts. The SNP declined to comment.

Copied above as it’s behind paywall

[degenerated]

I can tell you for sure that our branch has seen an increase of plus 10% in membership in the last month.

Where are you getting your info regarding the SNP Finance & Audit Committee?Wings over Scotland is the source on that one, he seemed to have it before the press.

[Keith_M]

Meanwhile, it emerged last night that three members of the SNP’s finance and audit committee have resigned amid claims they cannot carry out their jobs. It follows reports that SNP chief executive Peter Murrell, Sturgeon’s husband, has refused them full access to the party’s accounts. The SNP declined to comment.

Copied above as it’s behind paywall


Do you have a link to the article?



Cheers.

[Skol]

Do you have a link to the article?



Cheers.

Here you go. As I say it oddly is added on at the end of another unrelated story which is odd. However they clearly feel there is enough in it to go to print

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-on-green-alert-for-holyrood-election-as-hopes-of-majority-recede-and-coalition-seems-likely-npv87xsw7

[Keith_M]

Here you go. As I say it oddly is added on at the end of another unrelated story which is odd. However they clearly feel there is enough in it to go to print

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-on-green-alert-for-holyrood-election-as-hopes-of-majority-recede-and-coalition-seems-likely-npv87xsw7


Thanks

:aok:

[cabbageandribs1875]

what a damn brave "man" doing this to a 75 year old woman.... so brave

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/163064571_1645881405599505_3216046203674313587_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9pPKFXuDnAgAX9C-F7L&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=d4319e600c310a92195969bc63b90ea7&oe=607C9C98

[JimBHibees]

what a damn brave "man" doing this to a 75 year old woman.... so brave

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/163064571_1645881405599505_3216046203674313587_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9pPKFXuDnAgAX9C-F7L&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=d4319e600c310a92195969bc63b90ea7&oe=607C9C98

Wow

[ronaldo7]

what a damn brave "man" doing this to a 75 year old woman.... so brave

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/163064571_1645881405599505_3216046203674313587_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9pPKFXuDnAgAX9C-F7L&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=d4319e600c310a92195969bc63b90ea7&oe=607C9C98

Absolutely despicable, targeting and old woman. The ugly face of unionism.

[StevieC]

Yes that claim has been circulating ever since sturgeon appeared before the committee. It almost sounds too good to be true. It seems official numbers are not published and so it isn’t possible to validate its accuracy.

My local branch has seen a 11.7% rise in membership in the last month.
That’s an “official” figure .. and I suppose I’ve just published it.

If that’s similar across other branches then the figures mentioned would be fairly accurate.

[StevieC]

I can tell you for sure that our branch has seen an increase of plus 10% in membership in the last month.

As I mentioned above, 11.7% increase in my branch.

I have to admit that I was sceptical of the increase in membership when it was first reported, until local increases were confirmed by the branch secretary.

[cabbageandribs1875]

As I mentioned above, 11.7% increase in my branch.

I have to admit that I was sceptical of the increase in membership when it was first reported, until local increases were confirmed by the branch secretary.





https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/163334067_1646866142167698_7423119382800531657_o.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ulfMkwu2TfEAX-GJGaJ&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=26672687f3a94e5c79bfe18148391ef5&oe=607E734A



delighted to see such a high percentage of women :agree:

[Hibrandenburg]

NHS staff in Scotland to receive a payrise of 4%

[Mon Dieu4]

NHS staff in Scotland to receive a payrise of 4%

If only the SNP got on with the day job instead of constantly going on about independence :greengrin

No doubt there will be some people that find a bad spin on this

[weecounty hibby]

Great news for Scottish NHS staff. Well done the Scottish government.

[Mon Dieu4]

Knew it wouldn't take long, just saw my first they are spending money given to them by Westminster message, clockwork

[Hibrandenburg]

If only the SNP got on with the day job instead of constantly going on about independence :greengrin

No doubt there will be some people that find a bad spin on this

The SNP are on a very dangerous tack. What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where NHS staff here are manifestly better off than south of the border and they're doing it on purpose.

[DaveF]

NHS staff in Scotland to receive a payrise of 4%

The stock response will be why not teachers, binmen etc...

[cabbageandribs1875]

Nicola Sturgeon on Twitter: "Our NHS staff deserve more than applause and 1% is not enough. @scotgov is offering a 4% pay rise, which would deliver guaranteed minimum increase of £1000 for those earning less than £25,000 & 5.4% increase for staff on lowest pay band...and all backdated to December 2020." / Twitter (https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1374842300623388681?s=19&fbclid=IwAR1Q2kbnDL3Bssp3vVJFaRRVJ7aZK36CHJfbzQ-IR4aAgBZjvPXSXLbtNTY)



good luck to all those retiring, especially Jeane Freeman and Michael Russell, sterling work

[Hibrandenburg]

The stock response will be why not teachers, binmen etc...

Aye, that and "it's subsidised by England".

[Pretty Boy]

The stock response will be why not teachers, binmen etc...

I certainly hope people are asking those questions, constructively of course. Given the reliance of local govt on central govt funding in Scotland and the cuts made to nursery teaching, libraries, community policing and the like to balance the books in recent years there should be assurances sought for fair pay for all public sector workers and continued and improved investment in services. We are still feeling the effects of a previous populist council tax freeze and another one has now been agreed, with justification I'll add. Central govt is plugging some of the gap but those in the less glamorous roles in the public sector shouldn't suffer to pay for that.

[Pretty Boy]

Can anyone clarify what the pay offer is to Doctors? I notice they are noted as being excluded from the 4% offer.

[DaveF]

I certainly hope people are asking those questions, constructively of course

Oh I agree.

My somewhat lame comment was more aimed at the 'hate anything SNP' mob and their predicted response to any good news.

[Ozyhibby]

I certainly hope people are asking those questions, constructively of course. Given the reliance of local govt on central govt funding in Scotland and the cuts made to nursery teaching, libraries, community policing and the like to balance the books in recent years there should be assurances sought for fair pay for all public sector workers and continued and improved investment in services. We are still feeling the effects of a previous populist council tax freeze and another one has now been agreed, with justification I'll add. Central govt is plugging some of the gap but those in the less glamorous roles in the public sector shouldn't suffer to pay for that.

At the same time, public sector workers have been insulated from the economic crisis in a way private sector workers have not.


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[Santa Cruz]

Can anyone clarify what the pay offer is to Doctors? I notice they are noted as being excluded from the 4% offer.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5835640/nhs-scotland-doctor-pay-rise/

[Pretty Boy]

At the same time, public sector workers have been insulated from the economic crisis in a way private sector workers have not.


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I don't disagree but the wider question of the funding of public services impacts us all.

You could also extend your argument to NHS staff covered by AfC who have have had a 9% pay rise over 3 years since 2018 (https://www.gov.scot/news/9-percent-pay-rise-for-nhs-workers/) and have now been offered this well deserved new deal. That compares to 1% for teachers (offered in January) earning over £25K.

I'm not for a second suggesting I grudge NHS workers their pay rise, anything but. We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that tax freezes and pay increases for some means cuts that impact others though. It's the conundrum of trying to navigate that central ground; people want more money for everything but many of the same people don't want to pay for it.

[Hibrandenburg]

Aye, that and "it's subsidised by England".

And there we have it on Newsnight. That didn't take long

[Pretty Boy]

On a somewhat related note I think we are approaching the perfect time to really press ahead with trialling UBI. The FM showed apparent enthusiasm for it last year and I hope it's something the govt follows through with.

A payment that meets the most basic needs of every family, and particularly those living in poverty, removes a lot of the arguments about targeted spending and cuts.

[Santa Cruz]

On a somewhat related note I think we are approaching the perfect time to really press ahead with trialling UBI. The FM showed apparent enthusiasm for it last year and I hope it's something the govt follows through with.

A payment that meets the most basic needs of every family, and particularly those living in poverty, removes a lot of the arguments about targeted spending and cuts.

Is that type of Benefit payment Devolved? I recall reading the SG are not expecting to take over the bulk of Benefit payments until 2023. They failed to meet their pledge which I think was set for last year because the system was too complex.

[cabbageandribs1875]

this vile repugnant little cant Galloway is going beyond the pale, i realise he craves attention/publicity, good or bad...but c'mon

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/164809791_900940490449331_8686254631393878546_o.jp g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=YiJ5p0SUiYIAX8bOz93&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=b577afd07be0c3e21431bc0e651f396a&oe=60828BCA


GEORGE Galloway has endorsed a message from an Alliance for Unity (A4U) member comparing the SNP (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/snp/) to Nazis.
A4U leader Jamie Blackett said the Holocaust-referencing allegations made by Christian McNeill showed why they were “proud” to have her as part of their party.
The news comes as the Alliance for Unity (A4U) party launched their bid to win Unionist list votes and send MSPs to Holyrood (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/holyrood/) to block a second independence (https://www.thenational.scot/news/scottish-independence/) referendum.
McNeill, who calls herself a “transformational coach” on her website, wrote on March 17: “This quote by @jconnollybooks reminds me of the sh*t show that is Scotland under the SNP: ‘Patriots built Auschwitz. You start believing that ‘my country wrong or right’ sh*t, and it always ends up at the same place: a pit filled with bones.’


“Vote them out before the pit is dug.”

[Pretty Boy]

Is that type of Benefit payment Devolved? I recall reading the SG are not expecting to take over the bulk of Benefit payments until 2023. They failed to meet their pledge which I think was set for last year because the system was too complex.

I don't think it is devolved as such but NS suggested it was a conversation she would be seeking to have to make sure we have the powers to implement it. I believe there are some trials proposed in a few areas in the not too distant future.

It's the kind of thing I want to see front and centre of a new formal document setting out a plan for an independent Scotland as and when it is released. I'm not particularly interested in more shuffling the decks. Something like UBI is genuinely radical and progressive and would set a clear vision as to how an iScotland would be different from the status quo.

[easty]

I don't disagree but the wider question of the funding of public services impacts us all.

You could also extend your argument to NHS staff covered by AfC who have have had a 9% pay rise over 3 years since 2018 (https://www.gov.scot/news/9-percent-pay-rise-for-nhs-workers/) and have now been offered this well deserved new deal. That compares to 1% for teachers (offered in January) earning over £25K.

I'm not for a second suggesting I grudge NHS workers their pay rise, anything but. We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that tax freezes and pay increases for some means cuts that impact others though. It's the conundrum of trying to navigate that central ground; people want more money for everything but many of the same people don't want to pay for it.

Didn’t the teachers get something like 13% in total since 2018/19?

I work for a uni, I’ve barely had any rise the last few years.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210325/c597d4559a83fea7e0194123131f4a00.jpg


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[twiceinathens]

STV timetable has been altered.6 o' clock Scottish News has been reduced to 15 minutes to allow the "National" news its usual 30 minutes, then 30 minutes for Emmerdale to allow for the free-to-air televising of the supremely important England v the mighty San Marino to be screened from 7-15.

[bawheid]

And there we have it on Newsnight. That didn't take long

Glenn Campbell on the state broadcaster brilliantly turning the 4% pay award into a terrible thing.

[danhibees1875]

I'm not sure which thread is best for this question... Where, if anywhere, does the Scottish government cut its cloth in order to offer these extra initiatives?

I agree, in the most part, with them all (this, the earlier bonus, prescription fees, university tuition fees...) and think they're good and positive moves, but given SG works within the confines of a pre-determined budget and doesn't have borrowing powers (of note) then does something have to give (or not be matched anyway) in order to make these things possible? :dunno:

I can't imagine whatever extra we scoop in from the higher income tax bands covers it, but can't really think where else there's much give. I also don't think it's linked to the deficit as noted in GERS as this is spend within their own budget.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure which thread is best for this question... Where, if anywhere, does the Scottish government cut its cloth in order to offer these extra initiatives?

I agree, in the most part, with them all (this, the earlier bonus, prescription fees, university tuition fees...) and think they're good and positive moves, but given SG works within the confines of a pre-determined budget and doesn't have borrowing powers (of note) then does something have to give (or not be matched anyway) in order to make these things possible? :dunno:

I can't imagine whatever extra we scoop in from the higher income tax bands covers it, but can't really think where else there's much give. I also don't think it's linked to the deficit as noted in GERS as this is spend within their own budget.

I guess if England spend £37bn on a test and trace system and we get £3.7bn in Barnett consequential from that and manage to not spend it all on test and protect here then we can spend on other things?


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[danhibees1875]

I guess if England spend £37bn on a test and trace system and we get £3.7bn in Barnett consequential from that and manage to not spend it all on test and protect here then we can spend on other things?


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That seems possible/likely - but not something I've ever seen confirmed either way, or even the cost of ours.

[McD]

I guess if England spend £37bn on a test and trace system and we get £3.7bn in Barnett consequential from that and manage to not spend it all on test and protect here then we can spend on other things?


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do we get a Barnett consequential for that?


Apologies if that’s a right thick question

[danhibees1875]

do we get a Barnett consequential for that?


Apologies if that’s a right thick question

Yes, we'll get consequentials for anything that is spent by the UK government with no use/benefit(open to interpretation in some instances :greengrin ) to Scotland.

[McD]

Yes, we'll get consequentials for anything that is spent by the UK government with no use/benefit(open to interpretation in some instances :greengrin ) to Scotland.


thank you :aok:

[Santa Cruz]

thank you :aok:

This explains a bit.

https://spice-spotlight.scot/2020/10/14/covid-19-barnett-funding-7-2-billion-for-scotland-now-guaranteed/

[McD]

This explains a bit.

https://spice-spotlight.scot/2020/10/14/covid-19-barnett-funding-7-2-billion-for-scotland-now-guaranteed/


cheers :aok:

[Crunchie]

I'm not sure which thread is best for this question... Where, if anywhere, does the Scottish government cut its cloth in order to offer these extra initiatives?

I agree, in the most part, with them all (this, the earlier bonus, prescription fees, university tuition fees...) and think they're good and positive moves, but given SG works within the confines of a pre-determined budget and doesn't have borrowing powers (of note) then does something have to give (or not be matched anyway) in order to make these things possible? :dunno:

I can't imagine whatever extra we scoop in from the higher income tax bands covers it, but can't really think where else there's much give. I also don't think it's linked to the deficit as noted in GERS as this is spend within their own budget.
After the 2016 world economy collapse and this past year, I dread to think where we'd be if we'd won independence back then. Greece, Ireland, Spain etc all got EU bailouts, who would we be going camp in hand to?

[Future17]

After the 2016 world economy collapse and this past year, I dread to think where we'd be if we'd won independence back then. Greece, Ireland, Spain etc all got EU bailouts, who would we be going camp in hand to?

If I had any money, it'd be on Graham Norton.

[Crunchie]

If I had any money, it'd be on Graham Norton.
:not worth Fat finger syndrome lol. ( left myself wide open with that one ) :wink:

[wookie70]

I guess if England spend £37bn on a test and trace system and we get £3.7bn in Barnett consequential from that and manage to not spend it all on test and protect here then we can spend on other things?


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I suspect we will be due the money for that but won't receive the "benefit" from it.

[wookie70]

After the 2016 world economy collapse and this past year, I dread to think where we'd be if we'd won independence back then. Greece, Ireland, Spain etc all got EU bailouts, who would we be going camp in hand to?

Who have Westminster went cap in hand to

[Kato]

Who have Westminster went cap in hand toThe printers

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[wookie70]

The printers

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We owe it to ourselves

[Kato]

We owe it to ourselvesThe question being, when do we pay it back?

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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223.amp

An SNP success story. Shame we didn’t have the power to tax it more, then the public purse could have benefited.


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[CropleyWasGod]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223.amp

An SNP success story. Shame we didn’t have the power to tax it more, then the public purse could have benefited.


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The public purse will benefit in the long run, in terms of pressure on public services.

[Moulin Yarns]

The public purse will benefit in the long run, in terms of pressure on public services.

Save lives, save the NHS. Where have we heard that before 😉

[SHODAN]

My local MP Chapman has quit his role in the shadow cabinet. Can't help but think this is him telegraphing a defection to Alba.

[Ozyhibby]

My local MP Chapman has quit his role in the shadow cabinet. Can't help but think this is him telegraphing a defection to Alba.

More than likely.


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[bawheid]

More than likely.


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My MP too. If he defects to Alba I’ll be expecting a by election. I voted for him as an SNP candidate not to act under the loony fringe of the independence movement.

[Peevemor]

My MP too. If he defects to Alba I’ll be expecting a by election. I voted for him as an SNP candidate not to act under the loony fringe of the independence movement.I'd be annoyed to.

MPs shouldn't be permitted to change parties mid-mandate.

[Just Alf]

I'd be annoyed to.

MPs shouldn't be permitted to change parties mid-mandate.100% don't stop them doing it mind, but it should trigger a byelection .... let them show the courage of their convictions.

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[JimBHibees]

100% don't stop them doing it mind, but it should trigger a byelection .... let them show the courage of their convictions.

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Absolutely should be what happens

[Crunchie]

My local MP Chapman has quit his role in the shadow cabinet. Can't help but think this is him telegraphing a defection to Alba.
He says why he quit, and it's nothing to do with Alba, apparently there are some shenanigans going on with the finances of the squeaky clean party.

[Peevemor]

He says why he quit, and it's nothing to do with Alba, apparently there are some shenanigans going on with the finances of the squeaky clean party.Which other people are saying is nonsense, including external auditors.

[Crunchie]

Which other people are saying is nonsense, including external auditors.

But let's all pretend it's because he's defecting to Alba lol. I see how this works now :aok:

[Peevemor]

But let's all pretend it's because he's defecting to Alba lol. I see how this works now :aok:We'll see.

[GlesgaeHibby]

He says why he quit, and it's nothing to do with Alba, apparently there are some shenanigans going on with the finances of the squeaky clean party.

Relates to the £600k independence fund which was to be ring fenced for a future independence campaign, which is nowhere to be seen in the most recent set of accounts published by the SNP. Douglas Chapman is the 4th member of the finance and audit committee to resign in recent months. 3 resigned in March over Mr Murrell refusing to allow them access to the books apparently.

[Crunchie]

Relates to the £600k independence fund which was to be ring fenced for a future independence campaign, which is nowhere to be seen in the most recent set of accounts published by the SNP. Douglas Chapman is the 4th member of the finance and audit committee to resign in recent months. 3 resigned in March over Mr Murrell refusing to allow them access to the books apparently.
But the blind party faithful will tell you they're all liars and it's all a tory conspiracy.

[Hibrandenburg]

But the blind party faithful will tell you they're all liars and it's all a tory conspiracy.

Most sensible people won't make their minds up either way until there's more information available. I see you've already made up your's.

[Ozyhibby]

Most sensible people won't make their minds up either way until there's more information available. I see you've already made up your's.

Is there even a specific allegation?


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[Crunchie]

Most sensible people won't make their minds up either way until there's more information available. I see you've already made up your's.
I look forward to you affording the same to all the other parties :aok: