SNP nonsense

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58038976

Has the BBC found the smoking gun? 😂 Is it just a coincidence that the contract has the same value as the supposed missing funds? 🤔

[Crunchie]

Out of order. Does her marital status bother you?
Really? if having your hubby chief executive of your party isn't convenient I don't know what you'd call it.

Both their testaments in the Salmond enquiry were highly dubious to say the least.

I imagine a few skeletons will come out their particular closets in the years that pass, as it stands everything will be quashed as long as they're both in their current positions.

[Crunchie]

Out of order. Does her marital status bother you?
What a dumb question, her marital status bothers me as much as mine does.

[lapsedhibee]

Care to elaborate?

Convenient as a cover for her real, scandalous, love (Griffiths).

[Moulin Yarns]

Out of order. Does her marital status bother you?


Really? if having your hubby chief executive of your party isn't convenient I don't know what you'd call it.

Both their testaments in the Salmond enquiry were highly dubious to say the least.

I imagine a few skeletons will come out their particular closets in the years that pass, as it stands everything will be quashed as long as they're both in their current positions.


What a dumb question, her marital status bothers me as much as mine does.

Bothered enough to reply twice? :wink:

[Peevemor]

Really? if having your hubby chief executive of your party isn't convenient I don't know what you'd call it.

Both their testaments in the Salmond enquiry were highly dubious to say the least.

I imagine a few skeletons will come out their particular closets in the years that pass, as it stands everything will be quashed as long as they're both in their current positions.

Do you not see how desperate these sort of posts seem.

Re. the Salmond enquiry, you're just assuming the worst with no proof whatsoever. Even if you did have any proof, the most contentious point was whether Sturgeon knew on a certain date or 2-3 days later. What difference does it make when speaking about historic events? Talks about mountains and molehills...

As for you're imagining stuff - it looks more like wishful thinking than anything else.

I know this is a thread solely to have a pop at the SNP, but you'd be infinitely more credible if you posted positives about your own politics or party elsewhere. Criticism is easy, but you never propose any solutions.

[lord bunberry]

What a dumb question, her marital status bothers me as much as mine does.
We both know what you meant by convenient.

[Hibrandenburg]

What a dumb question, her marital status bothers me as much as mine does.

Oh dear, I hope they get counciling.

[Caversham Green]

Or that the funds are still available when needed.

As discussed earlier in this thread, the annual accounts show unequivocally that all donations (and other income) received up to 31 December 2019 have been spent - money in £5.3m; money out £5.7m. I note that £1.5m was spent on campaigning costs compared with £287k in the previous year, so they could possibly argue that the donations went towards that expense, but really the fundraising was for a specific project that hasn't taken place yet and the accounts should reflect that either by way of a Restricted Fund or a deferred income account. I think the former seems the best method but they rather ruled that out in one of the statements quoted by Peevemor.

In short, if they are committed to spending those donations in the future then the accounts are wrong because they don't report that commitment.

[WeeRussell]

Really? if having your hubby chief executive of your party isn't convenient I don't know what you'd call it.

Both their testaments in the Salmond enquiry were highly dubious to say the least.

I imagine a few skeletons will come out their particular closets in the years that pass, as it stands everything will be quashed as long as they're both in their current positions.

I might be missing something but what is wrong with a husband and wife both being involved in the same political party?

If anything it’ll stop a lot of dinner table arguments.. and maybe cause a few others right enough!

[Moulin Yarns]

I might be missing something but what is wrong with a husband and wife both being involved in the same political party?

If anything it’ll stop a lot of dinner table arguments.. and maybe cause a few others right enough!

Well, we do have Boris and Carrie and we all know who the boss is in that particular household 😉

[HNA12]

Just a reminder that indirectly taking potshots at other posters has never been allowed here. Whilst some of it might appear mild those posters who are constantly on the end of tend not to hang about here for long. Please stick to debating the points respectfully. We really don’t want to be deleting posts and handing out warnings. At the end of the day we run a football forum, this place is an ad-on that shouldn’t be taking up too much of our spare time.

[Keith_M]

I've been reading over people's defence of the SNP's use of funds that were supposed to be 'ring fenced' for the independence campaign and all it highlights is how little I understand of the English language.

For instance, when somebody uses the phrase 'ring fenced', in reference to funds, I always imagined it meant that those funds had a virtual barrier put around them and they were not allowed to be used for any other purpose.

It brings to mind situations where money really should have been 'ring fenced',...for instance funds in a company pension scheme, but large part of it were removed and instead used to buy a £300M yacht for some rich guy's wife (a theoretical example, obviously).

Quite rightly, there would be public outrage in a situation like that and questions would be raised as to why the money given by a large group of people for a very specific purpose wasn't actually protected so securely after all.


But as I said, I obviously don't understand the English language... and it's various phrases... as well as I thought, so what would I know.

[cabbageandribs1875]

apparently AirBNB have stormed out of a SG working group on regulating short term lets



wonder what it was they didn't like :confused:

[SHODAN]

apparently AirBNB have stormed out of a SG working group on regulating short term lets



wonder what it was they didn't like :confused:

Probably regulating short term lets.

[Peevemor]

Probably regulating short term lets.

I think AirBnB is great, but something has to be done to get residents back into town centres as well as rural areas.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think AirBnB is great, but something has to be done to get residents back into town centres as well as rural areas.

The only time I booked an Airbnb I was badly let down by the owner not turning up. I kept getting voicemail for over an hour after the agreed time, so I phoned around for hotels as close to Cramond village as possible. Ended booking holiday inn express at ocean terminal. Guy eventually called back to say he was sorry he'd forgotten the booking. Instead of walking to a wedding at Cramond kirk it was driving with no chance of a good drink at the reception.

Book through a proper self-catering company and there are safeguards. I've got a good contact for a company who let out holiday accommodation in Edinburgh, as a regular I can get 15% off.

[Pretty Boy]

The only time I booked an Airbnb I was badly let down by the owner not turning up. I kept getting voicemail for over an hour after the agreed time, so I phoned around for hotels as close to Cramond village as possible. Ended booking holiday inn express at ocean terminal. Guy eventually called back to say he was sorry he'd forgotten the booking. Instead of walking to a wedding at Cramond kirk it was driving with no chance of a good drink at the reception.

Book through a proper self-catering company and there are safeguards. I've got a good contact for a company who let out holiday accommodation in Edinburgh, as a regular I can get 15% off.

I used Airbnb a fair bit in it's infancy and back then it seemed a much more innocent idea. It was primarily about people letting out spare rooms and was a great way to meet people. I stayed in houses with people in Barcelona, Berlin, Rome and more and a couple of people I stayed with are still friends now.

Entirely predictably it is a platform that has changed beyond all recognition now with people buying up property specifically for the purpose of letting it as an Airbnb and making considerable amounts of money doing so. That brings a myriad of problems with it and it's Pandora's box that has been opened.

[He's here!]

I used Airbnb a fair bit in it's infancy and back then it seemed a much more innocent idea. It was primarily about people letting out spare rooms and was a great way to meet people. I stayed in houses with people in Barcelona, Berlin, Rome and more and a couple of people I stayed with are still friends now.

Entirely predictably it is a platform that has changed beyond all recognition now with people buying up property specifically for the purpose of letting it as an Airbnb and making considerable amounts of money doing so. That brings a myriad of problems with it and it's Pandora's box that has been opened.

Pedantic perhaps but why is it called Airbnb if no breakfast is provided? It's really just a letting service.

[He's here!]

Anyone watch this last night?

https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1423377272149512192

I was aware it was a shambles but hadn't followed the story closely enough to understand what a monumental f***-up the Scotttish government have made of it. I can see why McColl is considering court action and demanding a full inquiry.

[CropleyWasGod]

Pedantic perhaps but why is it called Airbnb if no breakfast is provided? It's really just a letting service.

Because AirBed is something different :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done Thomas Ullathorne winning the East Livingston and East Calder by-election for the SNP in which was Historically a Labour seat


the nasties 2nd
Labour 3rd
Greens 4th

[ronaldo7]

well done Thomas Ullathorne winning the East Livingston and East Calder by-election for the SNP in which was Historically a Labour seat


the nasties 2nd
Labour 3rd
Greens 4th

Delighted with that.

It looks like the Starmer/Sarwar effect is coming through strongly in Scotland. Greens will be catching them soon enough. :aok:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Delighted with that.

It looks like the Starmer/Sarwar effect is coming through strongly in Scotland. Greens will be catching them soon enough. :aok:


his team put a huge amount of work in, also well done to oor Nic for making it into Vogue's top 25 women of influence :)

[DaveF]

well done Thomas Ullathorne winning the East Livingston and East Calder by-election for the SNP in which was Historically a Labour seat


the nasties 2nd
Labour 3rd
Greens 4th

25% turnout (4 votes from our house)

I didn't realise that there is Tory/Labour councillor marriage in West Lothian. I imagine that will be long and happy given you can hardly tell the parties apart.

[marinello59]

25% turnout (4 votes from our house)

I didn't realise that there is Tory/Labour councillor marriage in West Lothian. I imagine that will be long and happy given you can hardly tell the parties apart.

It’s not unusual. There is a rather more high profile SNP/Labour couple who seem happy. I grew up in a household where elections saw diametrically opposed party posters both displayed in our front windows. That marriage lasted OK as well. The good old days when we could happily disagree without being instantly labelled as Nationalists or Unionists. I’m getting old. :greengrin

[Glory Lurker]

It’s not unusual. There is a rather more high profile SNP/Labour couple who seem happy. I grew up in a household where elections saw diametrically opposed party posters both displayed in our front windows. That marriage lasted OK as well. The good old days when we could happily disagree without being instantly labelled as Nationalists or Unionists. I’m getting old. :greengrin

Aye, and that got us Thatcher :-)

Edit: I'm not saying the posters got us Thatcher. I'll research that and come back to you though!

[marinello59]

Aye, and that got us Thatcher :-)

Edit: I'm not saying the posters got us Thatcher. I'll research that and come back to you though!

Took me a while with that one.:greengrin

[He's here!]

Aye, and that got us Thatcher :-)

Edit: I'm not saying the posters got us Thatcher. I'll research that and come back to you though!

The Tartan Tories got us Thatcher 😉

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The Tartan Tories got us Thatcher 😉

Surprised it took you so long.

[Crunchie]

The Tartan Tories got us Thatcher 😉
The tartan SNP got us Thatcher :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

Tories throwing round accusations about who got us Thatcher.[emoji849][emoji23]


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[Moulin Yarns]

Tories throwing round accusations about who got us Thatcher.[emoji849][emoji23]


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I know, it's usually the Labour thing, you really can't tell them apart anymore. 😉

[JeMeSouviens]

Tories throwing round accusations about who got us Thatcher.[emoji849][emoji23]


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I preferred it when he was a fantasy ex-Yes voter, at least that was funny. :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210812/41df33a824c96418d0d2e39cee5de8e2.jpg
Smart move by NS.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210812/41df33a824c96418d0d2e39cee5de8e2.jpg
smart move by patrick harvie.


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ftfy 😉

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Thing is the greens may be a 'pro' indy party but they only see independence as the best way to achieve their environmental policies.
Should for example labour somehow regain power at Westminster with an end to drilling ect in their manifesto then the greens may well drop support for independence like a stone and jump into bed with the reds.
Can't see it happening within Sturgeons reign but the Snp shouldn't become over reliant on a continued support from Harvey and Co.

[WeeRussell]

Thing is the greens may be a 'pro' indy party but they only see independence as the best way to achieve their environmental policies.
Should for example labour somehow regain power at Westminster with an end to drilling ect in their manifesto then the greens may well drop support for independence like a stone and jump into bed with the reds.
Can't see it happening within Sturgeons reign but the Snp shouldn't become over reliant on a continued support from Harvey and Co.

Sure, but similarly, if the rest of the UK stopped voting-in incompetent, despicable, charlatan tories then the support for independence would likely fall too. As you say, these things are unlikely to happen anytime soon and therefore independence naturally becomes a necessity for some.

It’s now the only feasible option for many, including me.

[Jack]

Thing is the greens may be a 'pro' indy party but they only see independence as the best way to achieve their environmental policies.
Should for example labour somehow regain power at Westminster with an end to drilling ect in their manifesto then the greens may well drop support for independence like a stone and jump into bed with the reds.
Can't see it happening within Sturgeons reign but the Snp shouldn't become over reliant on a continued support from Harvey and Co.

The UK and Scottish Greens are separate parties and whilst I agree a step change at Westminster may well see a softening of the Scottish Greens Scottish independence stance it doesn't necessarily follow.

I agree they are like the Libdems in being an opportunist party and likely to jump into bed with anyone of any hue if it suits them.

I wonder if the UK Greens jumped into bed with either tory or Labour at Westminster would they agitate for independence on behalf of their friends up north?

[Moulin Yarns]

The UK and Scottish Greens are separate parties and whilst I agree a step change at Westminster may well see a softening of the Scottish Greens Scottish independence stance it doesn't necessarily follow.

I agree they are like the Libdems in being an opportunist party and likely to jump into bed with anyone of any hue if it suits them.

I wonder if the UK Greens jumped into bed with either tory or Labour at Westminster would they agitate for independence on behalf of their friends up north?

The Scottish Greens are left of labour. I think the SNP is the only party that they would be prepared to jump into bed with.

[He's here!]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210812/41df33a824c96418d0d2e39cee5de8e2.jpg
Smart move by NS.


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Greenpeace UK branded Ms Sturgeon's letter a "PR exercise" and called on the first minister to make her "own stance clear".

Campaigner Sam Chetan-Walsh said: "The first minister must stop hiding behind Boris Johnson. If she wants to show leadership on climate she must clearly say, 'Stop Cambo'."

[WeeRussell]

Greenpeace UK branded Ms Sturgeon's letter a "PR exercise" and called on the first minister to make her "own stance clear".

Campaigner Sam Chetan-Walsh said: "The first minister must stop hiding behind Boris Johnson. If she wants to show leadership on climate she must clearly say, 'Stop Cambo'."



Is that you opting to post your thoughts in a radge font, or is this taken from a particular source?

[Ozyhibby]

Greenpeace UK branded Ms Sturgeon's letter a "PR exercise" and called on the first minister to make her "own stance clear".

Campaigner Sam Chetan-Walsh said: "The first minister must stop hiding behind Boris Johnson. If she wants to show leadership on climate she must clearly say, 'Stop Cambo'."



Pretty certain she could never have gone far enough for Greenpeace UK.
She will find that this move is very popular though. I expect full opposition will be announced at time of Green co-operation announcement.


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[He's here!]

Is that you opting to post your thoughts in a radge font, or is this taken from a particular source?

Not sure why it appears in that font when I cut and paste, but it's taken from the BBC report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58186181

As Glenn Campbell also points out in there the SNP have long championed the oil industry - and it wasn't so long ago they were proclaiming 'Scotland's oil' would sustain us as an independent nation. The figures quoted turned out be pie in the sky of course.

[Ozyhibby]

Not sure why it appears in that font when I cut and paste, but it's taken from the BBC report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58186181

As Glenn Campbell also points out in there the SNP have long championed the oil industry - and it wasn't so long ago they were proclaiming 'Scotland's oil' would sustain us as an independent nation. The figures quoted turned out be pie in the sky of course.

The world has changed now though. It’s time we all changed our approach. Well done to the SNP for accepting that and moving quickly. I’m sure Douglas Ross will be coming out in support soon as well.[emoji6]


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[NYHibby]

Not sure why it appears in that font when I cut and paste, but it's taken from the BBC report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58186181

As Glenn Campbell also points out in there the SNP have long championed the oil industry - and it wasn't so long ago they were proclaiming 'Scotland's oil' would sustain us as an independent nation. The figures quoted turned out be pie in the sky of course.

A sizeable number of Minsters were also privately pro-fracking in 2016 but they were able to avoid making their views publicly known as they knew public opinion was against them.

[WeeRussell]

Not sure why it appears in that font when I cut and paste, but it's taken from the BBC report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58186181

As Glenn Campbell also points out in there the SNP have long championed the oil industry - and it wasn't so long ago they were proclaiming 'Scotland's oil' would sustain us as an independent nation. The figures quoted turned out be pie in the sky of course.

Thanks. I’m not a big fan of Glen Campbell (or the bbc while we’re at it 😁)

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58306354.amp

Getting on with the day job.


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[degenerated]

Not sure why it appears in that font when I cut and paste, but it's taken from the BBC report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58186181

As Glenn Campbell also points out in there the SNP have long championed the oil industry - and it wasn't so long ago they were proclaiming 'Scotland's oil' would sustain us as an independent nation. The figures quoted turned out be pie in the sky of course.The figures used in the white paper were projections published by the UK government based on their own forecasts of oil production and price.

[ronaldo7]

https://www.gov.scot/news/removal-of-nhs-dental-charges-for-all-young-people/

It just keeps coming.

[SHODAN]

https://www.gov.scot/news/removal-of-nhs-dental-charges-for-all-young-people/

It just keeps coming.

Enough of this Marxism, I insist on paying astronomical fees for my children's dental treatment in five years time. Bloody disgrace etc etc.

[Stairway 2 7]

Brilliant move, but I've never understood why all dentists are completely nhs and completely free. Ridiculous people have to pay loads of money for health care

[Ozyhibby]

Brilliant move, but I've never understood why all dentists are completely nhs and completely free. Ridiculous people have to pay loads of money for health care

They do some cosmetic work as well but agree that all but the cosmetic stuff should be NHS.


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[Smartie]

They do some cosmetic work as well but agree that all but the cosmetic stuff should be NHS.


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There's a very fuzzy line between health benefits and cosmetic benefits though - cosmetic dentistry being available on the NHS could be the thin end of a very large wedge.

I'm not sure how much the taxpayer should be expected to pick up the tab for elective treatments.

Well I am actually - they shouldn't.

Someone wants a cosmetic enhancement, they pay for it.

Leaves more money in the pot for health, especially for those whose means wouldn't easily extend to paying for healthcare.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's a very fuzzy line between health benefits and cosmetic benefits though - cosmetic dentistry being available on the NHS could be the thin end of a very large wedge.

I'm not sure how much the taxpayer should be expected to pick up the tab for elective treatments.

Well I am actually - they shouldn't.

Someone wants a cosmetic enhancement, they pay for it.

Leaves more money in the pot for health, especially for those whose means wouldn't easily extend to paying for healthcare.

But that should be easy to distinguish and sort. You don't get botox or lip fillers on nhs. I know people that weren't on alot of money that were devastated with their nhs bill, for root canal on this instance

[Smartie]

But that should be easy to distinguish and sort. You don't get botox or lip fillers on nhs. I know people that weren't on alot of money that were devastated with their nhs bill, for root canal on this instance

Sorry - I misread the previous post - I thought it said cosmetic dentistry SHOULD be part of the NHS, when it didn't.

Root canal is actually somewhere between difficult and impossible to provide on the NHS and make any profit out of.

I have no idea what the answer is, but dentistry in this country is incredibly expensive to provide and only going to get worse.

[Stairway 2 7]

Sorry - I misread the previous post - I thought it said cosmetic dentistry SHOULD be part of the NHS, when it didn't.

Root canal is actually somewhere between difficult and impossible to provide on the NHS and make any profit out of.

I have no idea what the answer is, but dentistry in this country is incredibly expensive to provide and only going to get worse.

I doubt mending a broken bone or taking out a gall bladder makes a profit. All dentists should be nationalised unless cosmetic

[Smartie]

I doubt mending a broken bone or taking out a gall bladder makes a profit. All dentists should be nationalised unless cosmetic

Different funding models though.

Whether you like it or not, currently your NHS dentist is a private contractor who agrees to offer their services as part of an NHS contract. If they don't make a profit then they cease to exist. Then the moaning about "not being able to get an NHS dentist" starts...

The idea of nationalising the lot has merit but it is also a minefield.

I'm not sure how your gall bladders or broken bones work - but somewhere down the line tax money comes in, everybody gets paid, all the bills get squared up and at the end of the day it should (!!) break even. Our rising national debt might suggest that that is not always the case though.

[Stairway 2 7]

Different funding models though.

Whether you like it or not, currently your NHS dentist is a private contractor who agrees to offer their services as part of an NHS contract. If they don't make a profit then they cease to exist. Then the moaning about "not being able to get an NHS dentist" starts...

The idea of nationalising the lot has merit but it is also a minefield.

I'm not sure how your gall bladders or broken bones work - but somewhere down the line tax money comes in, everybody gets paid, all the bills get squared up and at the end of the day it should (!!) break even. Our rising national debt might suggest that that is not always the case though.

Obviously it would need change just like nationalising anything. Scottish people seem pretty sound so I'm sure we'd be happy to pay. Free prescriptions, uni and soon care service needed change and expense too.

[Smartie]

Obviously it would need change just like nationalising anything. Scottish people seem pretty sound so I'm sure we'd be happy to pay. Free prescriptions, uni and soon care service needed change and expense too.

TBH the public aren't the ones that I'd see being the problem - it's the dentists, and the dentistry profession is one that I have a very funny relationship with.

Interesting that this conversation should break out on the "SNP nonsense" thread, as it is all about political philosophy really - socalism vs privatisation, how Scots and their outlook might differ from those down South, are we capable of funding it ourselves or must our socialist ideals be propped up and paid for by those down South?

Good healthcare costs money, a lot of it, and the NHS largely shelters people from that reality. Dentistry is one of the few places where there is actually an exposure to how much it costs to provide services because you will be asked for money in person to pay for it.

I'm actually fairly ambivalent about the whole left vs right thing - I think both can work but there are pros and cons to both that people need to be aware of. Scotland is a horribly unequal country, so is unsuitable for the whole "right" thing, as it throws too many people to the wolves who don't have the means (financial or desire) to pay for good healthcare. The problem with "left" is that it can be horribly inefficient, the health outcomes aren't always great, and it tends to drag levels of those who could afford better treatment down to a lower level.

My solution is that we need to first tackle the inequality that exists in Scotland. That takes several generations though.

Until then, I'm quite happy with the idea of nationalising NHS dentistry. It's actually been spoken about quite a lot over the last few months as it was a manifesto pledge from the SNP without anyone from the dental profession knowing what it meant - and it has only been spelt out to them a few days before these changes were introduced this week.

[Moulin Yarns]

An anecdotal tale of dental treatment during the pandemic.

I had an NHS check up with x-ray. Turned out I needed a filling, private quote was £110, a month later I was offered the same treatment on the NHS, total cost of £7.10.

[Ozyhibby]

I see the SG published its NHS recovery plan today with an extra £1bn of funding behind it. Getting on with the day job.


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[Since90+2]

I see the SG published its NHS recovery plan today with an extra £1bn of funding behind it. Getting on with the day job.


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Do we know where the £1 billion is coming from? I'm guessing it's not just been sitting about waiting to be allocated so it's likely coming from another departments budget.

[Ozyhibby]

Do we know where the £1 billion is coming from? I'm guessing it's not just been sitting about waiting to be allocated so it's likely coming from another departments budget.

There will be a fair bit of Barnet consequential from all the Covid mis-spending down south I imagine?


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[Since90+2]

There will be a fair bit of Barnet consequential from all the Covid mis-spending down south I imagine?


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I'm not sure to be honest but if they are increasing NHS spending by a billion it stands to reason it's not being spent elsewhere. I agree it should be given to the NHS but I also think when these things are reported they should say where the money is coming from / which department it's deallocated from.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure to be honest but if they are increasing NHS spending by a billion it stands to reason it's not being spent elsewhere. I agree it should be given to the NHS but I also think when these things are reported they should say where the money is coming from / which department it's deallocated from.

It may not be de-allocated from anywhere?


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[Since90+2]

It may not be de-allocated from anywhere?


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That's the point, it's not reported anywhere where this additional £1 billion of funding is coming from.

[Moulin Yarns]

Absolutely shocking the the Scottish Government are working for the people



The Scottish Government Transport Minister Graeme Dey has today announced that the A9 Dualling: Luncarty to Pass of Birnam project, will be open from Monday! Mr Dey confirmed all traffic management including lane and speed restrictions will be removed in a phased manner over Saturday 28 and Sunday 29 August, allowing road users access to the 9.5 km of new dual carriageway between Luncarty, north of Perth, and the Pass of Birnam by Monday 30 August 2021. The widening of this stretch of single carriageway is the second section of the A9 Dualling Programme to be constructed as part of the Scottish Government’s ambitious £3 billion commitment to dual 129 km of the A9 between Perth and Inverness. The opening of this section to four lanes of traffic, the most southerly section of the dualling programme, now provides 15 km of continuous dual carriageway from Inveralmond Roundabout to Birnam for the first time.
Mr Dey, said: “I’m thrilled we’ve reached this most important milestone on the Luncarty to Pass of Birnam project. When the new section of road opens fully, it will bring tremendous benefits - improving connectivity between the Highlands and Islands and Scotland’s central belt, delivering far reaching benefits to the wider Scottish economy. More locally, 4 km of new and upgraded non-motorised user route have been constructed to connect the surrounding communities to Scotland’s core path network. Promoting active travel and supporting our commitment to build an Active Nation where people choose to walk, wheel and cycle for everyday journeys. The opening of this major infrastructure project will improve road safety, journey times and journey reliability for the millions of road users that use this strategic route north each year. In addition, this vastly improved route will help stimulate the economic recovery of the north of Scotland following the pandemic, mitigate the impacts of Brexit, support businesses, communities and tourism throughout Scotland by improving access to and from the Highlands and Islands.”
The construction works to dual the existing 9.5 km of single carriageway north of Perth began in earnest in February 2019, with the installation of traffic management restrictions, following the appointment of Balfour Beatty as the main contractor in September 2018.
The project involved the construction of four new bridges over the A9 and the removal of all direct accesses to the A9 carriageway. These measures have improved the safety of the route and will reduce driver frustration and stress by providing more opportunity to overtake safely.
The project has also created approximately 4 km of new and upgraded pedestrian, equestrian and cycle routes, helping to promote sustainable and active transport, linking the communities of Luncarty and Bankfoot for the first time. In addition, sections of the existing core paths within the project area have also been upgraded with new asphalt surfacing and mounting blocks have been installed at key locations to improve access for equestrians.
Alan Brisbane, Contract Manager, for Balfour Beatty, said: “We are extremely proud to have delivered this major infrastructure milestone for Scotland, which will not only stimulate the local economy, but also improve safety and reliability for road users. Despite the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, our expert team remained focused throughout, with our attention now turning to landscaping and associated works, in the coming months. I would like to thank road users and local residents for their continued patience over the past three years and I look forward to seeing the wide-ranging benefits of the scheme being enjoyed for many years to come.”
Over the next few months, Balfour Beatty will continue to undertake finishing and landscaping works, which may on occasion require some traffic management to allow works to be undertaken safely. The project is expected to be completed in Winter 2021.
The project has been delivered with an unprecedented focus on community benefits with the ambition of leaving a positive and lasting legacy for the surrounding communities. Transport Scotland and its main contractor, Balfour Beatty have played a crucial role in maximising sustainable employment opportunities, investing in skills and supporting young people, adults and businesses in Perthshire.
The achievements and success of the project from its procurement through to the delivery of social value and community benefits during the construction phase were recognised in November 2020, as the project won ‘Infrastructure Project of the Year’ at the Go Awards Scotland 2020. The project has also recently been shortlisted for the UK National GO Awards under ‘Infrastructure Project of the Year’ category.

[Santa Cruz]

I've had a look for a list of procedures that qualifies for free dental treatment, can't find anything. Does anybody know if there is a list anywhere that's not obvious? It's more an orthodontic procedure, not initially carried out for cosmetic reasons. I'm not sure if this fits the remit.

[CropleyWasGod]

I've had a look for a list of procedures that qualifies for free dental treatment, can't find anything. Does anybody know if there is a list anywhere that's not obvious? It's more an orthodontic procedure, not initially carried out for cosmetic reasons. I'm not sure if this fits the remit.

Don't think it's been passed into law yet. AFAIA,at the moment, it's an aspiration, that has to go through the usual Parliamentary procedure.

[Santa Cruz]

Don't think it's been passed into law yet. AFAIA,at the moment, it's an aspiration, that has to go through the usual Parliamentary procedure.

Aah ok thanks, I got the impression the day it was announced it commenced for under 26's.

[CropleyWasGod]

Aah ok thanks, I got the impression the day it was announced it commenced for under 26's.

Actually, you are right.

https://www.gov.scot/news/removal-of-nhs-dental-charges-for-all-young-people/

Free treatment for people aged under 26 will take effect immediately and there is no “opt-in” required.

[Santa Cruz]

Actually, you are right.

https://www.gov.scot/news/removal-of-nhs-dental-charges-for-all-young-people/

Free treatment for people aged under 26 will take effect immediately and there is no “opt-in” required.

:aok: Seeing as there's no guidance, I'll make a phone call. Hope the Orthodontists/Dentists have been given guidance for what is exempt.

[Smartie]

:aok: Seeing as there's no guidance, I'll make a phone call. Hope the Orthodontists/Dentists have been given guidance for what is exempt.

Make the phone call, but someone will probably need to see the patient and assess what is required before being able to say whether it is available for free on the NHS or not.

In under 18s, the rationing of orthodontics is generally done via what they call "IOTN" (index of treatment need). That is used to assess whether or not the teeth are essentially "bad enough" to qualify for NHS treatment. I'd expect the same to be true for adults. The thresholds for NHS treatment did rise a decade or so ago, so NHS orthodontic treatment is not available as abundantly as it once was.

https://www.bos.org.uk/BOS-Homepage/Orthodontics-for-Children-Teens/Fact-File-FAQ/What-Is-The-IOTN

Dentists (and presumably orthodontists, not sure though) were given very little warning of this change, so I'm not sure if they'll have their heads around how it works yet.

It's also worth bearing in mind that this is a political gimmick. No new funds have been earmarked, and it was very hard to qualify for NHS orthodontics as an adult before this change - and that won't have changed. All that will have changed will be that if you qualify, you won't have to pay the maximum NHS charge a patient will pay (iirc £300 - £400, not sure) and instead it will be free.

In other words - I wouldn't get your hopes up too much, but there is never any harm in asking.

And any initial assessment to find out if it possible on the NHS should really be free.

[Santa Cruz]

Make the phone call, but someone will probably need to see the patient and assess what is required before being able to say whether it is available for free on the NHS or not.

In under 18s, the rationing of orthodontics is generally done via what they call "IOTN" (index of treatment need). That is used to assess whether or not the teeth are essentially "bad enough" to qualify for NHS treatment. I'd expect the same to be true for adults. The thresholds for NHS treatment did rise a decade or so ago, so NHS orthodontic treatment is not available as abundantly as it once was.

https://www.bos.org.uk/BOS-Homepage/Orthodontics-for-Children-Teens/Fact-File-FAQ/What-Is-The-IOTN

Dentists (and presumably orthodontists, not sure though) were given very little warning of this change, so I'm not sure if they'll have their heads around how it works yet.

It's also worth bearing in mind that this is a political gimmick. No new funds have been earmarked, and it was very hard to qualify for NHS orthodontics as an adult before this change - and that won't have changed. All that will have changed will be that if you qualify, you won't have to pay the maximum NHS charge a patient will pay (iirc £300 - £400, not sure) and instead it will be free.

In other words - I wouldn't get your hopes up too much, but there is never any harm in asking.

And any initial assessment to find out if it possible on the NHS should really be free.

Ta for taking the time to provide this info. The work was authorised and carried out, a new retainer is required. I'm pretty sure we'll be charged for it, but will check all the same.

[Smartie]

Ta for taking the time to provide this info. The work was authorised and carried out, a new retainer is required. I'm pretty sure we'll be charged for it, but will check all the same.

From memory - I think retainers are maybe free within the first year and need to be paid for after that.

What I would say - is that paying for retainers and keeping them in good working order is the best money and time that you can spend (compared with paying privately as an adult to have treatment corrected due to lost/ broken/ not wearing/ many other problems with retainers).

Glad you got it sorted out, and sorry I appeared to get the wrong end of the stick regarding what you were looking for.

[Santa Cruz]

From memory - I think retainers are maybe free within the first year and need to be paid for after that.

What I would say - is that paying for retainers and keeping them in good working order is the best money and time that you can spend (compared with paying privately as an adult to have treatment corrected due to lost/ broken/ not wearing/ many other problems with retainers).

Glad you got it sorted out, and sorry I appeared to get the wrong end of the stick regarding what you were looking for.

No need to apologise. I think it was me that was not clear. It has been well looked after, it's 3 years old and for a 16 year old.

[ronaldo7]

As the Tories remove the £20 uplift in UC, the Scottish Gov in Scotland improve our bairns lot.

Low-earning families in Scotland are set for a pay out of £320 in the coming months, under Scottish Government plans.

Speaking ahead of a debate on Thursday, social justice secretary Shona Robison estimated the money would reach the families of 148,000 children.

The bridging payments, as they have been described, will see two cash pay outs of £160 per child sent to families in receipt of free school meals in October and December.

The Scottish Government has already supplied two similar £100 payments this year, while the new scheme – administered by Social Security Scotland – is being rolled out.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/low-income-families-to-receive-320-payout-in-coming-months?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&top&amp&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

[Allez Hibs]

https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1438489832112668677?s=20

[Berwickhibby]

https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1438489832112668677?s=20

Gets funnier every time I see the clip :greengrin

[Keith_M]

https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1438489832112668677?s=20


What on earth was he trying to do?

[Hiber-nation]

What on earth was he trying to do?

He was using it due to an achilles injury apparently. Not sure why he was going at such speed though.

Poor old Humza, we may laugh but in the eyes of the media he's fair game for more ridicule given his poor performance as Health Sec.

[ronaldo7]

https://twitter.com/RadioClydeNews/status/1443176821172879360

7 new benefits that exist in Scotland that nobody else in the UK gets, whilst providing jobs for people in Scotland.:wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

He was using it due to an achilles injury apparently. Not sure why he was going at such speed though.

Poor old Humza, we may laugh but in the eyes of the media he's fair game for more ridicule given his poor performance as Health Sec.

I injured my achillies last Saturday, got an Aircast support and the pain has gone. I didn't need a scooter to get around. I won't be doing the 5km Parkrun this weekend though.

[cabbageandribs1875]

congrats Jenny Gilruth and Neil Gray in their new positions :agree:

Scottish Government on Twitter: "First Minister @NicolaSturgeon has announced two changes to her Ministerial team. Jenny Gilruth will take on the Transport portfolio with immediate effect. Find out more⬇️ https://t.co/Dr1IWGNYcH (https://twitter.com/scotgov/status/1485681657474654216?s=20&fbclid=IwAR3CptsQ6VvE1rdfGCJkmOUA9u1eeWfmvlS6YElNM Z9ByEs6jChcqKiD9gc) https://t.co/svnX6qgZZz" / Twitter

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60190498?at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_custom3=%40BBCScotlandNews&at_custom2=twitter&at_custom4=EC5FF7BA-81E6-11EC-A67A-C5540EDC252D&at_campaign=64&at_medium=custom7


Imagine funding something like this?!

[Crunchie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60190498?at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_custom3=%40BBCScotlandNews&at_custom2=twitter&at_custom4=EC5FF7BA-81E6-11EC-A67A-C5540EDC252D&at_campaign=64&at_medium=custom7


Imagine funding something like this?!
Did you read the article? The last round of funding helped 1 in 10 households eligible, so it was only with pressure from opposition parties the amount was doubled.
Doubling it will now help how many? my arithmetic is as good as my English but is that now 2 in 10 it helps?

Hardly worth shouting from the rooftops is it.

[Moulin Yarns]

Did you read the article? The last round of funding helped 1 in 10 households eligible, so it was only with pressure from opposition parties the amount was doubled.
Doubling it will now help how many? my arithmetic is as good as my English but is that now 2 in 10 it helps?

Hardly worth shouting from the rooftops is it.

Aye, and your tory government hasn't even brought in the legislation after Grenfell. What about all the people who live in flats who are having to pick up the cost of replacing cladding???!

[Crunchie]

Aye, and your tory government hasn't even brought in the legislation after Grenfell. What about all the people who live in flats who are having to pick up the cost of replacing cladding???!
You'd make a good politician :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

You'd make a good politician :aok:

Says the guy who never answers a direct question! 🙄

[Crunchie]

Says the guy who never answers a direct question! 🙄
Playing you at your own game, you didn't answer mine and went off on a tangent about a completely different topic.

[Paul1642]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60246163

5 million in funding to cut the bottoms off classroom doors. Utter madness. Open a window and wedge the door slightly ajar for free!!

I look forward to the further millions being spent in a few years time replace all the bottomless doors due to drafts and fire risk.

[CapitalGreen]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60246163

5 million in funding to cut the bottoms off classroom doors. Utter madness. Open a window and wedge the door slightly ajar for free!!

I look forward to the further millions being spent in a few years time replace all the bottomless doors due to drafts and fire risk.

The article doesn’t say that though, does it?

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60246163

5 million in funding to cut the bottoms off classroom doors. Utter madness. Open a window and wedge the door slightly ajar for free!!

I look forward to the further millions being spent in a few years time replace all the bottomless doors due to drafts and fire risk.

Did you actually read the article or like the Scots Tories and Lib Dems just skim the headlines?

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60246163

5 million in funding to cut the bottoms off classroom doors. Utter madness. Open a window and wedge the door slightly ajar for free!!

I look forward to the further millions being spent in a few years time replace all the bottomless doors due to drafts and fire risk.

I watched FMQs at the time and can't believe the media coverage since. It was only Ross who mentioned slicing bits of the bottom of doors, The First Minister gave a very considered reply which covered air purifiers, ventilation systems and other reasonable mitigation measures which local authorities are in control of.

Here is the report on the STV news website, with the quotes.

https://news.stv.tv/politics/sturgeon-defends-covid-proposal-to-chop-bottom-off-classroom-doors


She said: “Firstly, our schools are fit for use. Thanks to the dedication of teachers and other school staff, thanks to the sacrifices of young people and their parents, we’ve managed to keep our schools open during some of the most challenging phases of this pandemic, and that’s a credit to everybody in our education system.
“The Scottish Government continues to take a range of measures to ensure that children and staff working in schools are as safe as it is possible for them to be.
“One of those measures of course is one that Douglas Ross, against all logic and most expert evidence, opposes which is asking staff and pupils in secondary schools to wear face coverings, a basic mitigation.”
The First Minister defended the proposals set out in order to rectify situations where doors or windows are not enabling sufficient natural air flow.
“On this issue of ventilation… Douglas Ross is shouting, ‘chopping the bottom off of doors’,” said Sturgeon.
“When you’re trying to improve ventilation in a room, there’s a number of things you need to do – partly, that can be about air filtration to purify the air, partly that is about ventilation, so mechanical ventilation systems.

“But also partly, and this is the key point, it’s about taking measures to ensure that the natural flow of air in a room is maximised.
“So, if you have doors or windows that are not enabling that natural flow of air in the way you would want it to, then it strikes me as basic common sense that you would take measures to rectify that.
“And so what we’ve done is give additional money to local authorities to allow them to take whatever steps – air filtration systems, mechanical ventilation, or basic rectification of the structure of classrooms – to improve the flow of air.
“That strikes me as basic common sense and if Douglas Ross wants to have serious discussions about these matters, then perhaps he could start by making sure it’s a grown-up discussion.”

[Jack]

For a thread titled SNP Nonsense it's certainly filling up nicely with unionist crap!

I'd have thought using so much misinformation in various campaigns they'd be better at it!

[grunt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60246163
Here's an example of the BBC spinning a Tory soundbite to create an SNPbad response in its readers.


5 million in funding to cut the bottoms off classroom doors. Utter madness. And here's the evidence that it works.

[Santa Cruz]

I watched FMQs at the time and can't believe the media coverage since. It was only Ross who mentioned slicing bits of the bottom of doors, The First Minister gave a very considered reply which covered air purifiers, ventilation systems and other reasonable mitigation measures which local authorities are in control of.

Here is the report on the STV news website, with the quotes.

https://news.stv.tv/politics/sturgeon-defends-covid-proposal-to-chop-bottom-off-classroom-doors

Why does the FM not know how many LA's have any of the ventilation mitigation's in place that you have listed?

A-C-H unearthed via an FOI to CEC, that only 2 schools passed the air quality threshold check. There is well over a 100 schools in the City. That finding will be replicated up and down the country. Surely if Central Gov is providing ring fenced funding, they would want certainty that these funds were being utilised as quickly as poss?

Unionist crap aye, as far as I know the poster making that claim doesn't have a kid sitting in a freezing cold classroom right now!

[Jack]

Why does the FM not know how many LA's have any of the ventilation mitigation's in place that you have listed?

A-C-H unearthed via an FOI to CEC, that only 2 schools passed the air quality threshold check. There is well over a 100 schools in the City. That finding will be replicated up and down the country. Surely if Central Gov is providing ring fenced funding, they would want certainty that these funds were being utilised as quickly as poss?

Unionist crap aye, as far as I know the poster making that claim doesn't have a kid sitting in a freezing cold classroom right now!

Because the Scottish Government doesn't need to keep records of everything the local authorities do, or the NHS does, or the police do, or any one of 100s of NDPBs do. The Scottish Government dishes out the money and the authorities have the responsibility, local accountability, to spend it appropriately and keep records which are in turn audited by an independent body.

Why don't the thick unionists ask the local authorities? Even ACH managed that bit right!

[danhibees1875]

Here's an example of the BBC spinning a Tory soundbite to create an SNPbad response in its readers.

And here's the evidence that it works.

The BBC article is quite explicit in saying only £300k is for the undercutting of doors to be fair. It's the headline because it's the bit that needs justified - ventilation is accepted as normal/good precaution, saloon doors is a new one. :greengrin

Paul's maybe jumped the gun a tad right enough, and I'm sure he won't be the only one. Although any other criticism I've seen is simply around the idea, or still being affronted at the £300k price tag.

[Santa Cruz]

Because the Scottish Government doesn't need to keep records of everything the local authorities do, or the NHS does, or the police do, or any one of 100s of NDPBs do. The Scottish Government dishes out the money and the authorities have the responsibility, local accountability, to spend it appropriately and keep records which are in turn audited by an independent body.

Why don't the thick unionists ask the local authorities? Even ACH managed that bit right!

Sorry, who's the thick unionist's that you're attempting to insult?

Why would it just be unionist's concerned about safe school environments. Are SNP voters all onboard with sending their kids to school for an education in an unsuitable environment, where kids are so cold they can't concentrate? That will affect pupil's performance and do nothing to shorten the attainment gap.

[Moulin Yarns]

Why does the FM not know how many LA's have any of the ventilation mitigation's in place that you have listed?

A-C-H unearthed via an FOI to CEC, that only 2 schools passed the air quality threshold check. There is well over a 100 schools in the City. That finding will be replicated up and down the country. Surely if Central Gov is providing ring fenced funding, they would want certainty that these funds were being utilised as quickly as poss?

Unionist crap aye, as far as I know the poster making that claim doesn't have a kid sitting in a freezing cold classroom right now!

9 schools in Edinburgh were checked and 7 were found to have failed. So you are correct that 2 passed, funny that this has escalated to "only 2 schools passed"

[Santa Cruz]

9 schools in Edinburgh were checked and 7 were found to have failed. So you are correct that 2 passed, funny that this has escalated to "only 2 schools passed"

Interesting. Do you have a source for this finding or any idea why only 9 schools were checked?

[Moulin Yarns]

Interesting. Do you have a source for this finding or any idea why only 9 schools were checked?

It was in an article on news.stv.tv I'm just heading out but will try to find it when I get back.

The same article had local authorities said that between 2 and 4% of teaching spaces across 50,000 classes across the whole of Scotland failed air quality.

[Santa Cruz]

It was in an article on news.stv.tv I'm just heading out but will try to find it when I get back.

The same article had local authorities said that between 2 and 4% of teaching spaces across 50,000 classes across the whole of Scotland failed air quality.

Thanks.

[Jack]

Sorry, who's the thick unionist's that you're attempting to insult?

Why would it just be unionist's concerned about safe school environments. Are SNP voters all onboard with sending their kids to school for an education in an unsuitable environment, where kids are so cold they can't concentrate? That will affect pupil's performance and do nothing to shorten the attainment gap.

The ones who hold the Scottish Government to account for things where responsibility is held elsewhere.

For example it's up to local authorities, whatever their hue, to provide a suitable environment for kids to learn.

The Scottish Government set the policies and dish out the money to the local authorities.

The local authorities are responsible for the implementation of these policies and they are held to account locally by their electorates.

The local authorities are also held to account by independent bodies such as Audit Scotland and in the case of schools HM Inspectorate of Schools to ensure they are carrying out the policies of the Scottish Government.

If local authorities are failing to provide your child with a suitable environment to learn raise your concerns with the school or the local authority. They are responsible and they keep the records for this.

[Santa Cruz]

The ones who hold the Scottish Government to account for things where responsibility is held elsewhere.

For example it's up to local authorities, whatever their hue, to provide a suitable environment for kids to learn.

The Scottish Government set the policies and dish out the money to the local authorities.

The local authorities are responsible for the implementation of these policies and they are held to account locally by their electorates.

The local authorities are also held to account by independent bodies such as Audit Scotland and in the case of schools HM Inspectorate of Schools to ensure they are carrying out the policies of the Scottish Government.

If local authorities are failing to provide your child with a suitable environment to learn raise your concerns with the school or the local authority. They are responsible and they keep the records for this.

If the SG sets the policy, they should provide the answers. They collect statistics on all aspects of Education. LA's face unfair scrutiny when they receive inadequate funding from Central Government to implement new policies imo.

Please don't refer to posters as thick, it's unnecessarily insulting.

[Jack]

If the SG sets the policy, they should provide the answers. They collect statistics on all aspects of Education. LA's face unfair scrutiny when they receive inadequate funding from Central Government to implement new policies imo.

Please don't refer to posters as thick, it's unnecessarily insulting.

The reference to thick unionists was the likes of Ross against the not so thick ACH who had actually submitted an FoI to the local authority for an answer.

[He's here!]

Leaving aside the costs, I think it's fair to say that cutting the bottom off classroom doors is a nonsense from a health and safety point of view. When I've done work in schools, one of which had recently suffered significant fire damage, the instruction was always for the last person leaving the classroom to close the door to ensure containment of a blaze. Not much use if there's a big gap at the foot of the door.

If getting air in via the doorway is so important the door should simply be left open or ajar.

I get that many Scottish schools are still clunky old Victorian buildings which struggle to be fit for modern-day education, but this proposal just seems daft.

[Ozyhibby]

Leaving aside the costs, I think it's fair to say that cutting the bottom off classroom doors is a nonsense from a health and safety point of view. When I've done work in schools, one of which had recently suffered significant fire damage, the instruction was always for the last person leaving the classroom to close the door to ensure containment of a blaze. Not much use if there's a big gap at the foot of the door.

If getting air in via the doorway is so important the door should simply be left open or ajar.

I get that many Scottish schools are still clunky old Victorian buildings which struggle to be fit for modern-day education, but this proposal just seems daft.

I totally agree on this and think the whole ventilation thing is a nonsense now.
I can also see the SNP point of view in that they have to be seen to be doing something and the money they have been given by London is not enough to fit proper air filtration systems.
If they had decided not to do anything then you can bet D Ross would have used all his questions at FMQ’s to ask why they weren’t at least cutting the bottom of all the doors.
This is what happens when you don’t have any real control over both how money is raised and how it is spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

Leaving aside the costs, I think it's fair to say that cutting the bottom off classroom doors is a nonsense from a health and safety point of view. When I've done work in schools, one of which had recently suffered significant fire damage, the instruction was always for the last person leaving the classroom to close the door to ensure containment of a blaze. Not much use if there's a big gap at the foot of the door.

If getting air in via the doorway is so important the door should simply be left open or ajar.

I get that many Scottish schools are still clunky old Victorian buildings which struggle to be fit for modern-day education, but this proposal just seems daft.Your suggestion that a fire door shouldn't be cut but should be left open is just as ridiculous as the inference that there has been any suggestion of fire doors being cut. Unless of course an electric hold open device linked to fire alarm system is used.

[Moulin Yarns]

I can supply wedges to hold doors open for £300,000 if anyone is interested :wink:

[He's here!]

Your suggestion that a fire door shouldn't be cut but should be left open is just as ridiculous as the inference that there has been any suggestion of fire doors being cut. Unless of course an electric hold open device linked to fire alarm system is used.

That's not what I suggested. I said that in my experience doors are closed as a matter of procedure when the classroom is left empty. When the classroom is in use I said it seems easier just to leave the door ajar to increase ventilation than go to the expense of cutting it. Nobody has said anything about fire doors being cut as far as I'm aware, just standard classroom doors. For Sturgeon to claim it's 'common sense' to consider such a measure does indeed seem 'bonkers'.

[Ozyhibby]

I don’t think classroom doors are fire doors anyway. They tend to be in the hallways between classrooms. Although it’s a while since I’ve been in a school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

I don’t think classroom doors are fire doors anyway. They tend to be in the hallways between classrooms. Although it’s a while since I’ve been in a school.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTypically that's correct though It depends on the individual fire strategy plan and how buildings are compartmentised

I haven't seen much on this other than the hyperbolic nonsense from Douglas ross but I suspect the actual plan would be to increase the undercut on non fire rated doors by a few mm above finished floor level rather than Nicola sturgeon going round schools with a reciprocating saw cutting them in half.

The knock on effect on acoustic performance might be an issue though.

[Moulin Yarns]

That's not what I suggested. I said that in my experience doors are closed as a matter of procedure when the classroom is left empty. When the classroom is in use I said it seems easier just to leave the door ajar to increase ventilation than go to the expense of cutting it. Nobody has said anything about fire doors being cut as far as I'm aware, just standard classroom doors. For Sturgeon to claim it's 'common sense' to consider such a measure does indeed seem 'bonkers'.

She didn't say anything like that. What she said was that using common sense in what is done to help ventilation is sensible. Not a direct quote, but Nicola Sturgeon didn't say anything about cutting doors, Douglas Ross on the other hand!!!

[He's here!]

She didn't say anything like that. What she said was that using common sense in what is done to help ventilation is sensible. Not a direct quote, but Nicola Sturgeon didn't say anything about cutting doors, Douglas Ross on the other hand!!!

I can't claim to have been following this from the start and perhaps the headlines are misleading, but her quotes would seem to imply that the plan is under consideration, if only for a certain number of classroom doors:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60246163

I'll be amazed if such proposals ever become reality.

[ronaldo7]

My grandsons primary school had a few doors, leading into a large open space, but every classroom was open, with no door. Maybe we could tell Douglas Ross we could save some cash, either that or use the £30k he had stashed away.

[Stairway 2 7]

Why do it now when almost the whole nation has T-cells, no one think of this 2 summers ago

[Moulin Yarns]

I can't claim to have been following this from the start and perhaps the headlines are misleading, but her quotes would seem to imply that the plan is under consideration, if only for a certain number of classroom doors:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60246163

I'll be amazed if such proposals ever become reality.

Her quotes, in the BBC article, say nothing of the sort, and the headline is made up nonsense.

The fact that Ross said it doesn't make it fact.

She did say that common sense solutions would be used though, so if anyone wants to think chopping a slice of the bottom of doors is common sense then that is only their opinion.

[Santa Cruz]

Her quotes, in the BBC article, say nothing of the sort, and the headline is made up nonsense.

The fact that Ross said it doesn't make it fact.

She did say that common sense solutions would be used though, so if anyone wants to think chopping a slice of the bottom of doors is common sense then that is only their opinion.

They clearly think it is a common sense solution or the SG wouldn't have went to the bother of providing costings to the Education Committee. 2,000 doors costing approx £150 in 2,000 spaces informally identified by LA's as problematic, costs the £300,000 figure that D. Ross quoted. Presumably he read the report.

[Bostonhibby]

I can supply wedges to hold doors open for £300,000 if anyone is interested :wink:Are you a pub landlord who specialises in door wedges and PPE?

If not I can't really take this offer seriously.

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[Ozyhibby]

They clearly think it is a common sense solution or the SG wouldn't have went to the bother of providing costings to the Education Committee. 2,000 doors costing approx £150 in 2,000 spaces informally identified by LA's as problematic, costs the £300,000 figure that D. Ross quoted. Presumably he read the report.

At those prices I might need to consider going back on the tools.[emoji102]


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[ronaldo7]

They clearly think it is a common sense solution or the SG wouldn't have went to the bother of providing costings to the Education Committee. 2,000 doors costing approx £150 in 2,000 spaces informally identified by LA's as problematic, costs the £300,000 figure that D. Ross quoted. Presumably he read the report.

Part of the report which you posted earlier kind of covers it. :aok:

It is very important to note that these costs will of course vary significantly in practice, as the precise remedial measures used in each problematic space should be informed by local circumstances and expert assessment by local authority teams. We do not, for example, expect that every problematic space will need an air cleaning device – settings may instead opt to relocate classes to alternative spaces while alternative, longer-term measures are put in place. However, using an example scenario to build an indicative cost per problem space is in our view a sound basis for deciding on the overall quantum for the funding.

[StevieC]

They clearly think it is a common sense solution or the SG wouldn't have went to the bother of providing costings to the Education Committee. 2,000 doors costing approx £150 in 2,000 spaces informally identified by LA's as problematic, costs the £300,000 figure that D. Ross quoted. Presumably he read the report.

Everything I have read says that £4.3m has been provided for classroom ventilation. £300,000 of which will be distributed to local authorities to utilise for additional works (which may or may not include increasing air flow around doors).

So that’s 7% of the budget for local authorities to utilise as they see fit and all of a sudden the SNP are chopping the bottom of the doors off in every classroom in Scotland.

Surely the 93% that is going to provide improved air filtration systems (that Douglas Ross stated was an “SNP Good” thing) should be the focus for the media? 🤔

[Santa Cruz]

Everything I have read says that £4.3m has been provided for classroom ventilation. £300,000 of which will be distributed to local authorities to utilise for additional works (which may or may not include increasing air flow around doors).

So that’s 7% of the budget for local authorities to utilise as they see fit and all of a sudden the SNP are chopping the bottom of the doors off in every classroom in Scotland.

Surely the 93% that is going to provide improved air filtration systems (that Douglas Ross stated was an “SNP Good” thing) should be the focus for the media? 🤔

Maybe it will be a focus for the media when they have anything positive to actually report. The £10m already provided has been utilised, the £5m is extra funding. What has the £10m been spent on? I haven't read of any improved ventilation mitigations being implemented other than CO2 monitors that are used as an indicator of poor air quality, and adapting windows that likely couldn't open sufficiently. The doors in classrooms have been fully open since schools returned following the first lockdown. It makes more sense to continue with that measure than chop them down in a percentage of classrooms.

The frustration is they have had 2 years to improve ventilation and they have been far too slow imo. They need to invest more in air filtration devices as opposed to open windows and doors, it's not a long term practical solution to a problem that isn't going away. The classes are far too cold in the Winter for kids to concentrate and that will affect their attendance and attainment levels.

All classrooms in every school need checked by an independent body, it shouldn't be left to informal feedback from LA's to report concerns. I see CEC's SNP Education Vice-Convenor has resigned citing "increasing concerns". I've read various possible reasons for this, one being opposing views with the party leadership. For all the public know this could be a dispute regarding this issue.

[Stairway 2 7]

Everything I have read says that £4.3m has been provided for classroom ventilation. £300,000 of which will be distributed to local authorities to utilise for additional works (which may or may not include increasing air flow around doors).

So that’s 7% of the budget for local authorities to utilise as they see fit and all of a sudden the SNP are chopping the bottom of the doors off in every classroom in Scotland.

Surely the 93% that is going to provide improved air filtration systems (that Douglas Ross stated was an “SNP Good” thing) should be the focus for the media? 🤔

Why now why not when it wasn't endemic. Too summers too late

[StevieC]

Why now why not when it wasn't endemic. Too summers too late

The post above says it started 2 years ago, with an initial £10m investment.

[Santa Cruz]

The post above says it started 2 years ago, with an initial £10m investment.

The initial £10m funding was announced in August 2021.

[Stairway 2 7]

The post above says it started 2 years ago, with an initial £10m investment.

Jesus that's terrible. It's like having a paid comity meeting after a gunshot wound

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-snp-is-going-soft-on-crime-and-that-s-a-good-thing

Daisley must have really struggled to write this. Fair play to him though, he still managed to turn it into an article critical of the SNP. A man committed to his task.


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[Just Alf]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-snp-is-going-soft-on-crime-and-that-s-a-good-thing

Daisley must have really struggled to write this. Fair play to him though, he still managed to turn it into an article critical of the SNP. A man committed to his task.


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Amazing how he can write this...
"Why is Holyrood able to be bold while Westminster fearfully props up a failed, more-time-more-crime system? Certainly, ministers in Edinburgh enjoy the cushion of crime rates that have more than halved in the last 30 years. While England and Wales have a crime rate of 77.6 per 1,000, the figure plummets to just 45.1 in Scotland, consistently the safest jurisdiction in the UK for a decade now."

and STILL make it a negative report about the SNP ..... SNP Baaaad indeed!

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-snp-is-going-soft-on-crime-and-that-s-a-good-thing

Daisley must have really struggled to write this. Fair play to him though, he still managed to turn it into an article critical of the SNP. A man committed to his task.


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It showed :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

confirmed Scotrail brought into public ownership from April, fully owned and controlled by our Government :agree:

[He's here!]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19932283.snp-msp-james-dornan-accused-despicable-attitude-abuse-bbc-broadcaster/

I see he's now apologised (presumably on the instructions of his party) but this guy is a liability for the SNP with the regularity of his daft comments.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19932283.snp-msp-james-dornan-accused-despicable-attitude-abuse-bbc-broadcaster/

I see he's now apologised (presumably on the instructions of his party) but this guy is a liability for the SNP with the regularity of his daft comments.

Dornan is an idiot and I’m sure the party moved quickly to make sure he retracted.
I can’t understand the type of people who abuse anyone online. Weirdos.
Smith was a pretty crap journalist who definitely favoured one side of Scotland’s political divide over the other but there are no shortage of journalists like that in Scotland or anywhere else. And she definitely has a talent for making herself the news story, something good journalists are supposed to avoid. Sending her abusive messages is cowardly and of zero benefit to anyone.
Let’s also not kid ourselves that this only happens in Scotland. It happens in every country in the world. Also, let’s not kid on that it only happens from one side of the political debate. I’m pretty sure the amount of abuse NS receives is more than double every Scottish politician and journalist put together.


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[Skol]

Dornan is an idiot and I’m sure the party moved quickly to make sure he retracted.
I can’t understand the type of people who abuse anyone online. Weirdos.
Smith was a pretty crap journalist who definitely favoured one side of Scotland’s political divide over the other but there are no shortage of journalists like that in Scotland or anywhere else. And she definitely has a talent for making herself the news story, something good journalists are supposed to avoid. Sending her abusive messages is cowardly and of zero benefit to anyone.
Let’s also not kid ourselves that this only happens in Scotland. It happens in every country in the world. Also, let’s not kid on that it only happens from one side of the political debate. I’m pretty sure the amount of abuse NS receives is more than double every Scottish politician and journalist put together.


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Hm. Have you not just done the same as Dorman did?

[degenerated]

Hm. Have you not just done the same as Dorman did?I'm not sure he has at all. I can't see anything in that post that suggests any abuse of Smith is imagined by her?

All I can see is condemnation of people who would abuse people and legitimate critical comment on the quality and impartiality of her work.

[Ozyhibby]

Hm. Have you not just done the same as Dorman did?

Where about?


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[Skol]

Where about?


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The paragraph starting Smith was pretty crap….

[Jack]

The paragraph starting Smith was pretty crap….

To be fair she was prone to the regular gaff and it seemed to me these gaffs were always slanted one way. Every week there was a twitter apology for something.

I'm not sure how she's ended up in the USA. Maybe the BBC saw it as a way for her to start afresh where she wasn't under so much scrutiny.

[degenerated]

To be fair she was prone to the regular gaff and it seemed to me these gaffs were always slanted one way. Every week there was a twitter apology for something.

I'm not sure how she's ended up in the USA. Maybe the BBC saw it as a way for her to start afresh where she wasn't under so much scrutiny.I don't doubt she was abused on social media, it happens a lot and isn't just limited to unionist journalists. The abuse that is handed out to SNP politicians from unionist and loyalists is horrendous too. Difficult to comment on pro indy journalists, if someone can identify one we might be able to check :greengrin

Part of the unionist strategy has always been to try and paint the debate in Scotland as being akin to Northern Ireland in the early 70s when in reality, some nutters apart, it's just people hacked off with a biased media and calling them out on it.

[WeeRussell]

The paragraph starting Smith was pretty crap….

Was he meant to pretend she was brilliant?

FWIW I agree with about every word of Oz’s post. The main part being her getting sent online abuse is/was totally unacceptable.

[superfurryhibby]

Was he meant to pretend she was brilliant?

FWIW I agree with about every word of Oz’s post. The main part being her getting sent online abuse is/was totally unacceptable.

You made your point well enough, the responder is just not grasping a fairly basic point, that's all.

[JeMeSouviens]

To be fair she was prone to the regular gaff and it seemed to me these gaffs were always slanted one way. Every week there was a twitter apology for something.

I'm not sure how she's ended up in the USA. Maybe the BBC saw it as a way for her to start afresh where she wasn't under so much scrutiny.

Pretty sure she used to be C4 News' reporter in Washington.

Calling somebody hopeless doesn't automatically imply misogyny but it can certainly be used as an opening framework to hang a whole heap of mysogyny on. That she was rubbish at her job* and also subjected to completely unacceptable abuse are perfectly able to both be true.




* actually considering her probable remit, I'm sure her employers were pretty chuffed with her.

[Ozyhibby]

Pretty sure she used to be C4 News' reporter in Washington.

Calling somebody hopeless doesn't automatically imply misogyny but it can certainly be used as an opening framework to hang a whole heap of mysogyny on. That she was rubbish at her job* and also subjected to completely unacceptable abuse are perfectly able to both be true.




* actually considering her probable remit, I'm sure her employers were pretty chuffed with her.

I agree, although she maybe wasn’t subtle enough? Having to retract all the time put her out in the open as partisan too much for them I think?


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[He's here!]

Pretty sure she used to be C4 News' reporter in Washington.

Yes that's right.

Big step-up from the BBC Scottish gig to succeeding Jon Sopel as their North America correspondent.

I remember meeting her at an event in London quite a number of years back and she seemed very pleasant.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yes that's right.

Big step-up from the BBC Scottish gig to succeeding Jon Sopel as their North America correspondent.

I remember meeting her at an event in London quite a number of years back and she seemed very pleasant.

Proof that appearances can be deceptive. You know the saying, 'don't judge a book by its cover' :wink:

[He's here!]

Proof that appearances can be deceptive. You know the saying, 'don't judge a book by its cover' :wink:

Would her 'cover' not be her public face/professional persona as a journalist? ie I knew who she was from watching her on TV but found her much more easy-going/normal in a social setting. Those dishing out the abuse are most likely basing it on what they see of her as a political correspondent.

Another example of that (again from my own experience) would be Scott Brown. Perceived as a hard man/wind-up merchant on the pitch but quiet, polite and almost shy off it.

[Ozyhibby]

Why wouldn’t she be a nice person? Being a unionist or a nationalist in Scottish politics has no bearing on a persons personality. There are dickheads on both sides of the argument.

Smith let it get in the way of her impartiality as BBC Scotland political editor which is a professional mistake but not exactly an act of evil.


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[Skol]

Why wouldn’t she be a nice person? Being a unionist or a nationalist in Scottish politics has no bearing on a persons personality. There are dickheads on both sides of the argument.

Smith let it get in the way of her impartiality as BBC Scotland political editor which is a professional mistake but not exactly an act of evil.


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I am not sure that it did get in the way of her impartiality otherwise the bbc would have done something about it and she wouldn’t have got the North American gig

That said I rarely watch the bbc and so have seen very little of her so I don’t really know if her impartiality was compromised or not

[lapsedhibee]

I am not sure that it did get in the way of her impartiality otherwise the bbc would have done something about it and she wouldn’t have got the North American gig

That said I rarely watch the bbc and so have seen very little of her so I don’t really know if her impartiality was compromised or not

Post #5895 *

[Santa Cruz]

Post #5895 *

Promoted her??

[lapsedhibee]

Promoted her??

" * actually considering her probable remit, I'm sure her employers were pretty chuffed with her."

Her remit being not to be impartial at all.

[Santa Cruz]

" * actually considering her probable remit, I'm sure her employers were pretty chuffed with her."

She made a couple of errors, clumsily worded statements by her own admission and apologised.

Even the FM has said it is inacceptable the abuse levied at her and stressed the importance of politicians being held to account by the media.

[Skol]

" * actually considering her probable remit, I'm sure her employers were pretty chuffed with her."

Her remit being not to be impartial at all.

Where do we find evidence that her remit was not to be impartial. Impartiality is as I understand it fundamental to the bbc.

[Skol]

" * actually considering her probable remit, I'm sure her employers were pretty chuffed with her."

Her remit being not to be impartial at all.

Where do we find evidence that her remit was not to be impartial. Impartiality is as I understand it fundamental to the bbc.

[Skol]

Where do we find evidence that her remit was not to be impartial. Impartiality is as I understand it fundamental to the bbc.

Haha not sure how I posted that twice

[weecounty hibby]

She made a couple of errors, clumsily worded statements by her own admission and apologised.

Even the FM has said it is inacceptable the abuse levied at her and stressed the importance of politicians being held to account by the media.

Tellingly though her clumsily worded statements were always a negative to the Scottish Government or SNP. She also always made these clumsily worded statement on TV to audiences of millions. She them "apologised on twitter to an audience of a few thousand. No misogyny on my part because her successor is equally as bad and prone to doing exactly the same

[Santa Cruz]

Tellingly though her clumsily worded statements were always a negative to the Scottish Government or SNP. She also always made these clumsily worded statement on TV to audiences of millions. She them "apologised on twitter to an audience of a few thousand. No misogyny on my part because her successor is equally as bad and prone to doing exactly the same

What about Ciaran Jenkins comments, that not once has the FM praised the UK Gov for testing and vaccine procurement (I think that's the area's he mentioned). Why is there no uproar when he criticised the SG?

[Smartie]

I am not sure that it did get in the way of her impartiality otherwise the bbc would have done something about it and she wouldn’t have got the North American gig

That said I rarely watch the bbc and so have seen very little of her so I don’t really know if her impartiality was compromised or not

A bit like referees and Rangers, her “honest mistakes” always seemed to fall one way.

In a debate as heated as the independence one, that was always going to lead to fairly extreme criticism with the lowest common denominator going way too far, as usual.

Proportionate criticism should have come her way and tbh I don’t think she’d have taken issue with that. The level of abuse that public political figures are expected to tolerate, especially females, is absolutely shocking though.

I assume her new niche involves broadcasting to Brits about events in America? That should be safe enough, however if she thought for a second that broadcasting to Americans about political matters over there was going to be a walk in the park with some of the extremely divisive figures they’ve got over there, well…

[weecounty hibby]

What about Ciaran Jenkins comments, that not once has the FM praised the UK Gov for testing and vaccine procurement (I think that's the area's he mentioned). Why is there no uproar when he criticised the SG?
Sorry don't even know who he is but criticism really isn't an issue to be honest. It's what journalism should be. As long as accurate and balanced. Smith was neither of these things.

[Santa Cruz]

Sorry don't even know who he is but criticism really isn't an issue to be honest. It's what journalism should be. As long as accurate and balanced. Smith was neither of these things.

He's C4's Scotland Correspondent. He made a negative comment about the SG. This is what Smith is accused of, some would have you think she was doing this almost daily, which just wasn't the case. C4 news is way better than the BBC anyway, it has a more investigative style to it.

[weecounty hibby]

He's C4's Scotland Correspondent. He made a negative comment about the SG. This is what Smith is accused of, some would have you think she was doing this almost daily, which just wasn't the case. C4 news is way better than the BBC anyway, it has a more investigative style to it.
Sorry, yes I do know who he us. 100% agree about C4 v BBC, no contest as the BBC have zero interest in balance when it comes to Scottish reporting. C4 news definitely the best of the msm on many levels

[WeeRussell]

He's C4's Scotland Correspondent. He made a negative comment about the SG. This is what Smith is accused of, some would have you think she was doing this almost daily, which just wasn't the case. C4 news is way better than the BBC anyway, it has a more investigative style to it.

Presumably every news channel would have some negative comment to make on the SG, as they aren’t perfect - same as every political organisation. So I’m. It sure of your point, SC? (Maybe just cos I’m pished)

Smith isn’t accused of making a negative comment about the SNP. She’s accused of happily playing along with the bbc bias that many of us are at odds with.

Again. This doesn’t mean any of the personal abuse she has received, online or in person, is acceptable.

Oh and your bang on re C4 news 👍

[stoneyburn hibs]

Didn't buy it, as to her being clumsy.
She'd have never have mentioned it if she didn't get the Sopel gig.
Made a total arse of herself with her comments.

[degenerated]

He's C4's Scotland Correspondent. He made a negative comment about the SG. This is what Smith is accused of, some would have you think she was doing this almost daily, which just wasn't the case. C4 news is way better than the BBC anyway, it has a more investigative style to it.Smith was called out for making things up that suited her agenda, things she had to retract and apologise for afterwards. Big difference between that and negative comments.

[Just Alf]

Smith was called out for making things up that suited her agenda, things she had to retract and apologise for afterwards. Big difference between that and negative comments.100% ... as someone said earlier Sturgeon said being held to account by the media is a part of the job..

No running and hiding in fridges, only answering questions from certain journalists/channels for her.

I remember being really angry at the UK Gov, not allowing questions from Channel 4 journalists at the covid briefings and ministers always seemed to be too busy to appear on Chan 4 news progs.
(I KNOW the Scot gov have also not been on progs, buts it's occasional enough that maybe everyone was pre booked :dunno: )

[Keith_M]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19932283.snp-msp-james-dornan-accused-despicable-attitude-abuse-bbc-broadcaster/

I see he's now apologised (presumably on the instructions of his party) but this guy is a liability for the SNP with the regularity of his daft comments.


Dornan is a total prat.

The quicker the SNP get rid of him, the better.

[CropleyWasGod]

More trouble for the SNP.

https://nationaluglymugs.org/2022/03/03/num-and-scot-pep-a-letter-to-the-scottish-minister-for-community-safety/

[ronaldo7]

The more powers we get, the more we change the policies.

Disabled people in Scotland with serious lifelong conditions will no longer have to attend reassessments to continue receiving their benefits.

https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1504014872245420039

[Stairway 2 7]

More trouble for the SNP.

https://nationaluglymugs.org/2022/03/03/num-and-scot-pep-a-letter-to-the-scottish-minister-for-community-safety/

Hadn't heard about this. Snp going to make it criminal to buy sex, stuck in the 1950s. Its as stupid as the war on drugs, every country in the world has prostitution.

It needs decriminalised regulated and put into safe places. I'd rather the women were in places like Holland or Germany than doing it with unknown weirdos in cars. The US shows prosecuting the buyer doesn't stop it but gets more people in the cycle of the criminal justice system. Disappointed in this and not letting the workers have a voice is just insulting

[Lendo]

Hadn't heard about this. Snp going to make it criminal to buy sex, stuck in the 1950s. Its as stupid as the war on drugs, every country in the world has prostitution.

It needs decriminalised regulated and put into safe places. I'd rather the women were in places like Holland or Germany than doing it with unknown weirdos in cars. The US shows prosecuting the buyer doesn't stop it but gets more people in the cycle of the criminal justice system. Disappointed in this and not letting the workers have a voice is just insulting

There is nothing in that article or letter to suggest anything of the sort

[Stairway 2 7]

There is nothing in that article or letter to suggest anything of the sort

It's not in either but most papers covered it apparently. The youth wing of the snp are trying to fight against it good on them. Mary Whitehouse would approve

https://twitter.com/YSINational/status/1322209500267454469

The YSI
@YSINational
Last month the Scottish Government announced the ‘Equally Safe’ consultation on further measures to “end the demand” for sex work. Their proposals seek to criminalise the purchase of sex in Scotland. These proposals go against our values and will harm sex workers

We wrote to the Minister for Community Safety and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice following the announcement. Unfortunately we have not had a response. Today we want to make clear that we, along with all the members of the SNP, affiliate groups and sex worker led organisations

who have signed our statement oppose the proposals outlined by the Government. Legislation that has a sole focus on exit strategies does not have the needs of sex workers at the heart of it. We are urging
@scotgov
to give sex worker led organisations a seat at the table

And we are asking members of the SNP, and the wider public, to join forces with us to protect the sex worker community. Please fill out the consultation opposing the proposals. If you would like to add your name to the statement, please contact us on [email protected]

you want to support sex workers and you aren’t sure how to, we have put together a resource card for allies of the sex worker community. This can be found below:
docs.google.com

[Ozyhibby]

I agree sex work should be legal and regulated to be made safe but I do think if it is to be illegal then it’s better to make purchasing it illegal rather than selling it. If that makes sense.


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[CropleyWasGod]

I agree sex work should be legal and regulated to be made safe but I do think if it is to be illegal then it’s better to make purchasing it illegal rather than selling it. If that makes sense.


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The sale of sex, for the most part, is already legal in the UK.
Decriminalisation is what sex workers want, which is the removal of those laws which jeopardise safety.

[greenginger]

There is nothing in that article or letter to suggest anything of the sort

https://nationaluglymugs.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Scot-Pep-NUM-NUMbrella-Lane-Inclusion-of-sex-worker-representative-groups-in-policy-development.pdfhttps://nationaluglymugs.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Scot-Pep-NUM-NUMbrella-Lane-Inclusion-of-sex-worker-representative-groups-in-policy-development.pdf

Read the second para of the letter

[Ozyhibby]

The sale of sex, for the most part, is already legal in the UK.
Decriminalisation is what sex workers want, which is the removal of those laws which jeopardise safety.

Yes, but purchasing sex isn’t illegal? That means that men are more protected than women.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Yes, but purchasing sex isn’t illegal? That means that men are more protected than women.


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Criminalising men will make the women more unsafe, which is what the workers are saying. Too many in UK politics are stuck in a different century, are Victorian drug laws show this

[CropleyWasGod]

Criminalising men will make the women more unsafe, which is what the workers are saying. Too many in UK politics are stuck in a different century, are Victorian drug laws show this

Belgium has just voted for decrim.

[Stairway 2 7]

Belgium has just voted for decrim.

Good on them. Waste of police and courts time. Wish snp would be more progressive. Drugs next, poor buggers addicted to smack need Dr's not police

[Ozyhibby]

Good on them. Waste of police and courts time. Wish snp would be more progressive. Drugs next, poor buggers addicted to smack need Dr's not police

Agree. Drugs and Prisons. Both need sorted.


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[Radium]

Good on them. Waste of police and courts time. Wish snp would be more progressive. Drugs next, poor buggers addicted to smack need Dr's not police

Drugs enforcement is reserved and criminalised by Westminster through the Misuse of Drugs Act, a piece of 50 year old legislation.

Your last sentence is easily agreed with


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[Stairway 2 7]

Drugs enforcement is reserved and criminalised by Westminster through the Misuse of Drugs Act, a piece of 50 year old legislation.

Your last sentence is easily agreed with


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I know its expected from the horrible tories. The fact that that America is more progressive than the UK is pathetic. Snp are not on with the criminalisation of buying sex though.

[WeeRussell]

I know its expected from the horrible tories. The fact that that America is more progressive than the UK is pathetic. Snp are not on with the criminalisation of buying sex though.

Hasn’t the US ‘aye been’ on board with prostitution compared to us. As in since the ladies of the Wild West to cat houses of today? I could be completely wrong in that this has been refined to certain states/periods of time… or never actually been legal?

Regardless, not that it means we shouldn’t be catching up now, just not sure it’s so much “progression” on their part.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hasn’t the US ‘aye been’ on board with prostitution compared to us. As in since the ladies of the Wild West to cat houses of today? I could be completely wrong in that this has been refined to certain states/periods of time… or never actually been legal?

Regardless, not that it means we shouldn’t be catching up now, just not sure it’s so much “progression” on their part.

The US has a more restrictive regime, for the most part. Sex work is legal in parts of Nevada, and illegal in most other places, unlike the UK.
They also have the SESTA/FOSTA laws, which effectively ban advertising by sex workers. Some politicians (Rhoda Grant for one) would have Scotland go down that route. The Online Safety Bill, just introduced at Westminster, would also have
that effect.

[Stairway 2 7]

Hasn’t the US ‘aye been’ on board with prostitution compared to us. As in since the ladies of the Wild West to cat houses of today? I could be completely wrong in that this has been refined to certain states/periods of time… or never actually been legal?

Regardless, not that it means we shouldn’t be catching up now, just not sure it’s so much “progression” on their part.
Very mixed by state most arrest and charge the person paying for sex like we want. It obviously doesn't stop it in anyway, especially as you can book online in seconds.

I mean the US is become more progressive than the UK with drugs. All past conversations from weed are getting cancelled in most states. Most states its legal and taxed, not that it affects me but it needs done here

[Ozyhibby]

Very mixed by state most arrest and charge the person paying for sex like we want. It obviously doesn't stop it in anyway, especially as you can book online in seconds.

I mean the US is become more progressive than the UK with drugs. All past conversations from weed are getting cancelled in most states. Most states its legal and taxed, not that it affects me but it needs done here

That would certainly help get rid of the super strong stuff people are smoking now.


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[WeeRussell]

Very mixed by state most arrest and charge the person paying for sex like we want. It obviously doesn't stop it in anyway, especially as you can book online in seconds.

I mean the US is become more progressive than the UK with drugs. All past conversations from weed are getting cancelled in most states. Most states its legal and taxed, not that it affects me but it needs done here

I think I probably agree.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think I probably agree.

I think one of the bigger positives is in the US the profits can only be spent on health or education budgets. It's better going there than to gangs and violence here. I think in an independent country its more likely without the home county tory backbenchers

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scots-taking-in-ukrainian-refugees-under-government-scheme-to-be-exempt-from-council-tax-rise

Blooming scottish government, helping the benefit scroungers!! 😉

[CropleyWasGod]

Not directly linked to the SNP, although they did pass the enabling legislation.

Edinburgh Council have just voted to close down all strip clubs in the city, thereby putting over 100 women out of work.

[Ozyhibby]

Not directly linked to the SNP, although they did pass the enabling legislation.

Edinburgh Council have just voted to close down all strip clubs in the city, thereby putting over 100 women out of work.

They have killed of the rest of Edinburgh’s nightlife, so why not?[emoji849]
The council in Edinburgh are a disgrace. Won’t be long before they bring in a 7pm curfew just to make sure we are all behaving ourselves.


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[Ozyhibby]

Not directly linked to the SNP, although they did pass the enabling legislation.

Edinburgh Council have just voted to close down all strip clubs in the city, thereby putting over 100 women out of work.

I saw the vote was 5-4 in favour, does anyone know who voted what? Elections on the way.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Not directly linked to the SNP, although they did pass the enabling legislation.

Edinburgh Council have just voted to close down all strip clubs in the city, thereby putting over 100 women out of work.

That's disgusting if it happens nationwide it will be more jobs than the ship building ones saved, but some jobs don't matter. It must be the safest easily regulated form of adult work. How can these idiots think putting these women on the dole and into poverty is helping them.

Funny enough I just watched a program last night On Mary Whitehouse and the oz magazine trials, she'd be chuffed with this news

[CropleyWasGod]

I saw the vote was 5-4 in favour, does anyone know who voted what? Elections on the way.


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Not sure, but the USW are pushing for a juicial review, on the basis of equality legislation.

[Mcbizz1998]

Not directly linked to the SNP, although they did pass the enabling legislation.

Edinburgh Council have just voted to close down all strip clubs in the city, thereby putting over 100 women out of work.

I’m pretty astonished by this, in fact, I thought for a second it might be an April fools wind up!

In a world where “sex work” is being normalised, including prostitution, I am astonished that the council have even taken this to a vote. Let alone voted to actually close strip clubs.

They can expect some major backlash I would have thought.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/edinburgh-council-votes-to-ban-strip-clubs-from-capital-despite-concerns-that-activities-will-be-pushed-underground-3635751

From this article it appears Labour and Tories got together to outvote SNP and Green?


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[Jack]

Not directly linked to the SNP, although they did pass the enabling legislation.

Edinburgh Council have just voted to close down all strip clubs in the city, thereby putting over 100 women out of work.

Does it not need to go to the full council?
In the meantime the unions and pressure groups (for remaining open) have threatened all sorts of legal challenges.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/edinburgh-council-votes-to-ban-strip-clubs-from-capital-despite-concerns-that-activities-will-be-pushed-underground-3635751

From this article it appears Labour and Tories got together to outvote SNP and Green?


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Reads like it

[He's here!]

I see the union representing the dancers plans to take the council to court.

[CropleyWasGod]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/edinburgh-council-votes-to-ban-strip-clubs-from-capital-despite-concerns-that-activities-will-be-pushed-underground-3635751

From this article it appears Labour and Tories got together to outvote SNP and Green?


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In that case, apologies for putting this on the wrong thread :greengrin

SG still need booted for the enabling legislation though.

[Ozyhibby]

In that case, apologies for putting this on the wrong thread :greengrin

SG still need booted for the enabling legislation though.

They get it in the neck for not devolving matters as well. The reality is, we need to punish Labour and the Tories at the ballot box in the local elections.


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[SteveHFC]

Wonder if the council will build student apartments where the public triangle is after this news?

[Stairway 2 7]

Wonder if the council will build student apartments where the public triangle is after this news?

Prime location for some tartan shops

[Pretty Boy]

Not directly linked to the SNP, although they did pass the enabling legislation.

Edinburgh Council have just voted to close down all strip clubs in the city, thereby putting over 100 women out of work.

Mental, and reading at least one of the Councillors comments it seems to stem from some misplaced puritan stance.

We really should be moving to a legalisation of all sex work, it's real work after all, and breaking the criminal stranglehold. Broadly speaking it's the same argument as that for decriminalising drugs.

[Kato]

They have killed of the rest of Edinburgh’s nightlife, so why not?[emoji849]
The council in Edinburgh are a disgrace. Won’t be long before they bring in a 7pm curfew just to make sure we are all behaving ourselves.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBy-laws making the wearing of "sensible" shoes and muted Presbyterian colours for everyone's clothes next.

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[Ozyhibby]

By-laws making the wearing of "sensible" shoes and muted Presbyterian colours for everyone's clothes next.

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Temperance movement will be back with a bang.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/defence-and-security-in-an-independent-scotland/

Have you ever wondered how the defence and security landscape would look in an independent Scotland and what the priorities might be?
Who better to ask than SNP Defence Spokesman and member of the Foreign Affairs Committee Stewart McDonald MP and Cllr Chris McEleny, a former defence worker and a member of the Scottish Shipbuilding and Aerospace Committee for a number of years

[LeithMike]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/defence-and-security-in-an-independent-scotland/

Have you ever wondered how the defence and security landscape would look in an independent Scotland and what the priorities might be?
Who better to ask than SNP Defence Spokesman and member of the Foreign Affairs Committee Stewart McDonald MP and Cllr Chris McEleny, a former defence worker and a member of the Scottish Shipbuilding and Aerospace Committee for a number of yearsThe procurement of some new ships and planes might be interesting. . .

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[Stairway 2 7]

Grr. YES has only been ahead in 4 out of the last 34 polls apparently

UK (Scotland), Survation poll:

Independence referendum

Yes: 47% (-1)
No: 53% (+1)

+/- vs. 30 Apr-4 May 2021

Fieldwork: 24-28 March 2022

[James310]

Grr. YES has only been ahead in 4 out of the last 34 polls apparently

UK (Scotland), Survation poll:

Independence referendum

Yes: 47% (-1)
No: 53% (+1)

+/- vs. 30 Apr-4 May 2021

Fieldwork: 24-28 March 2022

When the question is framed differently.

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1511312838723358723?t=2-pV-ocItR9LmRY02fmjUw&s=19


Should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom:

Remain: 50%
Leave: 35%
Don’t Know: 9%

Don’t knows excluded:

Remain: 59%
Leave: 41%

Via @YouGov, On 29-31 March 2022.

[Stairway 2 7]

Can see why 2023 poll is unappealing. Question is how long would it take to be confident of the win

[Since90+2]

When the question is framed differently.

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1511312838723358723?t=2-pV-ocItR9LmRY02fmjUw&s=19


Should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom:

Remain: 50%
Leave: 35%
Don’t Know: 9%

Don’t knows excluded:

Remain: 59%
Leave: 41%

Via @YouGov, On 29-31 March 2022.

Terrifying for independence that result.

[ronaldo7]

When the question is framed differently.

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1511312838723358723?t=2-pV-ocItR9LmRY02fmjUw&s=19


Should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom:

Remain: 50%
Leave: 35%
Don’t Know: 9%

Don’t knows excluded:

Remain: 59%
Leave: 41%

Via @YouGov, On 29-31 March 2022.

Any idea where this took place?

With it being for "These islands", and carried out by yougov, and Kevin Hague, Im kind of sceptical. 😉

[overdrive]

Any idea where this took place?

With it being for "These islands", and carried out by yougov, and Kevin Hague, Im kind of sceptical. 😉

I'm sceptical of it as well and I'm on the opposite side to you. In 2014, I'd say most folk I knew, had dealings with etc. were in the 'No' camp. Now it seems I'm firmly in the minority, anecdotally.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm sceptical of it as well and I'm on the opposite side to you. In 2014, I'd say most folk I knew, had dealings with etc. were in the 'No' camp. Now it seems I'm firmly in the minority, anecdotally.

Almost every poll has it close with almost all this year having a No lead, so not minority unfortunately

[Moulin Yarns]

When the question is framed differently.

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1511312838723358723?t=2-pV-ocItR9LmRY02fmjUw&s=19


Should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom:

Remain: 50%
Leave: 35%
Don’t Know: 9%

Don’t knows excluded:

Remain: 59%
Leave: 41%

Via @YouGov, On 29-31 March 2022.

That's just to confuse people. The question was, and is likely to be, "do you want Scotland to be an independent country"

[Stairway 2 7]

That's just to confuse people. The question was, and is likely to be, "do you want Scotland to be an independent country"
Still not too good unfortunately

UK (Scotland), Survation poll:

Independence referendum

Yes: 47% (-1)
No: 53% (+1)

+/- vs. 30 Apr-4 May 2021

Fieldwork: 24-28 March 2022

[Glory Lurker]

Still not too good unfortunately

UK (Scotland), Survation poll:

Independence referendum

Yes: 47% (-1)
No: 53% (+1)

+/- vs. 30 Apr-4 May 2021

Fieldwork: 24-28 March 2022

Obviously we'd want it a lot better, but that's still a statistical dead heat polling-wise given the +/-3% margin of error.

Not disputing I'd prefer us to be romping, though :-)

[Stairway 2 7]

I just don't understand it. I'd think a mix of demographic shift, brexit and a tory party full of scandal, would have shifted it wide to yes. I think a change of tact is needed. The majority won't shift on each side and the middle ground isn't being won. SNP have become the establishment now also after being in charge so long. A pro independence labour movement would be good, obviously if it would only split labour vote and not independence vote

[He's here!]

I just don't understand it. I'd think a mix of demographic shift, brexit and a tory party full of scandal, would have shifted it wide to yes. I think a change of tact is needed. The majority won't shift on each side and the middle ground isn't being won. SNP have become the establishment now also after being in charge so long. A pro independence labour movement would be good, obviously if it would only split labour vote and not independence vote

I think the fact world events over the last few years have knocked independence well down the pecking order has seen the media a bit more emboldened when it comes to actually asking questions of how competent the Scottish government are. The answer has proven to be 'not very' and I'd suggest it's becoming clearer that if you take Sturgeon out of the picture there's not much substance there. Even Sturgeon herself seems stale, having been fronting things for so long.

I'm not suggesting the opposition have a lot to offer either and I'd say that UK wide politics is at a low ebb. I thought we'd hit the nadir with May and Corbyn but now I'm not so sure.

Are politicians really necessary? Serious question.

[Kato]

Are politicians really necessary? Serious question.

**** me, mate - get a grip.

"Sell Legislation Now" :sideofabus:



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[JimBHibees]

I think the fact world events over the last few years have knocked independence well down the pecking order has seen the media a bit more emboldened when it comes to actually asking questions of how competent the Scottish government are. The answer has proven to be 'not very' and I'd suggest it's becoming clearer that if you take Sturgeon out of the picture there's not much substance there. Even Sturgeon herself seems stale, having been fronting things for so long.

I'm not suggesting the opposition have a lot to offer either and I'd say that UK wide politics is at a low ebb. I thought we'd hit the nadir with May and Corbyn but now I'm not so sure.

Are politicians really necessary? Serious question.

The media have always been emboldened in terms of criticising Scot gov yet say nothing if anything good done so no real balance imo.

[He's here!]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20056653.kevin-mckenna-time-sturgeon-salmond-move-time-passed/

I haven't got access to Herald premium so can't link to the full article, but I've never been able to fathom McKenna a journalist. He used to be fiercely anti-indpendence, anti-Scottish even (judging by his pillorying of the Tartan Army) but then seemed to move to full-on freedom fighter and a regular contributor the National. Now he seems to be one of the SNP's leading critics.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20056653.kevin-mckenna-time-sturgeon-salmond-move-time-passed/

I haven't got access to Herald premium so can't link to the full article, but I've never been able to fathom McKenna a journalist. He used to be fiercely anti-indpendence, anti-Scottish even (judging by his pillorying of the Tartan Army) but then seemed to move to full-on freedom fighter and a regular contributor the National. Now he seems to be one of the SNP's leading critics.Another tumbleweed that goes where the wind blows.

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[Ozyhibby]

Whatever other faults the SNP have, at least our young people don’t have this to worry about as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025


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[Jack]

Whatever other faults the SNP have, at least our young people don’t have this to worry about as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025


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12% on student loans!

Is that not about double/triple what a bank loan is?

[ronaldo7]

Whatever other faults the SNP have, at least our young people don’t have this to worry about as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025


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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60498245

Students who start university next year could be paying off their loans for 40 years after graduating, under new government plans for England.

[James310]

The SNP are on slightly shaky ground here considering student debt has more than tripled under their watch. They also promised to "dump the debt" and write off all student loans in their 2007 manifesto but funnily enough that was quickly forgotten about when in power.

But 12% is ridiculous and is akin to payday loan territory. Needs sorted.

[SHODAN]

12% on student loans!

Is that not about double/triple what a bank loan is?

My fear with student loans is that we end up in a US-style scenario where they're privatised and graduates end up owing more than they borrowed after decades of repayment.

Thankfully mine is almost done and I don't see us electing Douglas Ross in 2026.

[degenerated]

Not directly linked to the SNP, although they did pass the enabling legislation.

Edinburgh Council have just voted to close down all strip clubs in the city, thereby putting over 100 women out of work.The Labour/Tory coalition have now decided that the role they were going to create to help the dancers find new work isn't required as they have deemed dancers not to be workers.

Their new solution to this is that clubs can stay open and dancers can continue to dance but they must keep their clothes on.

https://twitter.com/FinlayMcF/status/1551139422946590721?t=tR6o6hrj0iF4PW7uaF98DQ&s=09

[CropleyWasGod]

The Labour/Tory coalition have now decided that the role they were going to create to help the dancers find new work isn't required as they have deemed dancers not to be workers.

Their new solution to this is that clubs can stay open and dancers can continue to dance but they must keep their clothes on.

https://twitter.com/FinlayMcF/status/1551139422946590721?t=tR6o6hrj0iF4PW7uaF98DQ&s=09

Not workers 😑

Nice to know that the Council has the power to make that decision.

[Ozyhibby]

The Labour/Tory coalition have now decided that the role they were going to create to help the dancers find new work isn't required as they have deemed dancers not to be workers.

Their new solution to this is that clubs can stay open and dancers can continue to dance but they must keep their clothes on.

https://twitter.com/FinlayMcF/status/1551139422946590721?t=tR6o6hrj0iF4PW7uaF98DQ&s=09

Er, excuse me. How very dare you. It is NOT a coalition. [emoji35]


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[CropleyWasGod]

The Labour/Tory coalition have now decided that the role they were going to create to help the dancers find new work isn't required as they have deemed dancers not to be workers.

Their new solution to this is that clubs can stay open and dancers can continue to dance but they must keep their clothes on.

https://twitter.com/FinlayMcF/status/1551139422946590721?t=tR6o6hrj0iF4PW7uaF98DQ&s=09

Bristol Council have just voted 9-1 against a "nil-cap" policy. Good decision IMO.

[Keith_M]

Bristol Council have just voted 9-1 against a "nil-cap" policy. Good decision IMO.


"The union’s sex worker branch, the United Sex Workers, has written to the council and its licensing committee, to say introducing a policy would constitute indirect gender discrimination and effectively break the law."

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-strip-club-ban-union-6603781


That's a whole can of worms right there.

[CropleyWasGod]

The Labour/Tory coalition have now decided that the role they were going to create to help the dancers find new work isn't required as they have deemed dancers not to be workers.

Their new solution to this is that clubs can stay open and dancers can continue to dance but they must keep their clothes on.

https://twitter.com/FinlayMcF/status/1551139422946590721?t=tR6o6hrj0iF4PW7uaF98DQ&s=09

I know this is no longer appropriate for this thread, but I thought I would post it here anyways, as we were discussing it here.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/edinburgh-strip-club-ban-council-fails-in-desperate-bid-to-stop-sex-workers-union-appearing-in-court-3852525

What were the Council thinking, arguing that the USW shouldn't appear in Court? Seems like bullying to me.

[gbhibby]

Thought Ian Blackford in his interview with Martin Geisler was speaking as if he was the party leader and not the leader of the SNP group in Westminster.

[Stairway 2 7]

Surely if anyone deserves an inflation matching rise its our nhs. Spend some of our extra tax money on this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nhs-employees-preparing-go-strike-28078891.amp

NHS employees preparing to go on strike after rejecting five per cent pay increase
Union members are expected to vote in favour of action after rejecting the Scottish Government’s latest increase in June

[ronaldo7]

Surely if anyone deserves an inflation matching rise its our nhs. Spend some of our extra tax money on this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nhs-employees-preparing-go-strike-28078891.amp

NHS employees preparing to go on strike after rejecting five per cent pay increase
Union members are expected to vote in favour of action after rejecting the Scottish Government’s latest increase in June

I'd raise the personal allowance from when you start paying tax up from £12, 571 to the top rate of SRIT at £14,732 taking more people out of paying tax at the bottom of the spectrum. Unfortunately we can't do this as it's reserved. Leave all other rates as is, and top up the benefits again by the rate of inflation. We could only give them a 6 % rise this year whilst the rest of the UK got around 3%. I'd also top up the Scottish child payment to £30 next April. This will cover all eligible children up to 16.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'd raise the personal allowance from when you start paying tax up from £12, 571 to the top rate of SRIT at £14,732 taking more people out of paying tax at the bottom of the spectrum. Unfortunately we can't do this as it's reserved. Leave all other rates as is, and top up the benefits again by the rate of inflation. We could only give them a 6 % rise this year whilst the rest of the UK got around 3%. I'd also top up the Scottish child payment to £30 next April. This will cover all eligible children up to 16.

You wouldn't give nurses an inflation matching rise? We surely shouldn't compare our rises on what the vile tories give

[ronaldo7]

You wouldn't give nurses an inflation matching rise? We surely shouldn't compare our rises on what the vile tories give

We already pay them more than the rest of the UK, but, yes they deserve it. The ambition should always be to pay above inflation. Not sure how much it'll cost yet, but some of the tax take could cover it. We need to see where we go with the tax rates.

We could maybe just clap them on a Thursday at 8pm

That's the spirit.

[Stairway 2 7]

We already pay them more than the rest of the UK, but, yes they deserve it. The ambition should always be to pay above inflation. Not sure how much it'll cost yet, but some of the tax take could cover it. We need to see where we go with the tax rates.

We could maybe just clap them on a Thursday at 8pm

That's the spirit.

Sorry misunderstood when you said offer them 6%. I agree they should get near inflation rise and scot govs offer is a p take

[stuart-farquhar]

I think the fact world events over the last few years have knocked independence well down the pecking order has seen the media a bit more emboldened when it comes to actually asking questions of how competent the Scottish government are. The answer has proven to be 'not very' and I'd suggest it's becoming clearer that if you take Sturgeon out of the picture there's not much substance there. Even Sturgeon herself seems stale, having been fronting things for so long.

I'm not suggesting the opposition have a lot to offer either and I'd say that UK wide politics is at a low ebb. I thought we'd hit the nadir with May and Corbyn but now I'm not so sure.

Are politicians really necessary? Serious question.

That's a great question.

My view is yes and no. Yes to front up and do the waffle waffle and see democracy maintained. No because behind them is a sophisticated army of technicians who do all the actual work.

Fwiw I worked at cabinet level so know a lot of what goes on.

[grunt]

Fwiw I worked at cabinet level so know a lot of what goes on.
Can I have your autograph?