Brexit - what will happen next

[James310]

Blatant flat out lies. You have some neck on you.

Funnily enough I read it in The National, an article by Common Weal. Guess they are liars as well.

"5 ASSUMING it takes three or four years after a vote to introduce the currency, that means no currency for 15 years. But you can’t join the European Union until you’ve had your own currency for three years. Have we given up on EU membership for two decades or is there a feasible plan for joining if we’re sterlingised."

[Callum_62]

Im getting married in Croatia in 3 months - all costs are in Kuna

My future sister in law lives in Sweden - all costs in Krona

When we visited her we popped over to Copenhagen - all costs in Krone

How can that be?


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[JeMeSouviens]

Funnily enough I read it in The National, an article by Common Weal. Guess they are liars as well.

"5 ASSUMING it takes three or four years after a vote to introduce the currency, that means no currency for 15 years. But you can’t join the European Union until you’ve had your own currency for three years. Have we given up on EU membership for two decades or is there a feasible plan for joining if we’re sterlingised."

I assume the writer is just ignorant.

You, on the other hand have had this explained to you several times. Therefore my conclusion is you are a blatant liar.

[Moulin Yarns]

Funnily enough I read it in The National, an article by Common Weal. Guess they are liars as well.

"5 ASSUMING it takes three or four years after a vote to introduce the currency, that means no currency for 15 years. But you can’t join the European Union until you’ve had your own currency for three years. Have we given up on EU membership for two decades or is there a feasible plan for joining if we’re sterlingised."

You do realise that Common Weal is a think tank from all sides of the political spectrum (apart from the tories, thank goodness), and are not the government. Here is another quote from Common Weal
establishing a currency is inherently political, not technocratic, because it’s about choices and priorities

On a currency Common Weal and the SNP are poles apart so it is to be expected they don't agree with a lot of the GC report.

[James310]

I assume the writer is just ignorant.

You, on the other hand have had this explained to you several times. Therefore my conclusion is you are a blatant liar.

Author was Dr Craig Dalzell, Head of Policy and Research at Common Weal. You should mail him and tell him he is ignorant.

[JeMeSouviens]

Author was Dr Craig Dalzell, Head of Policy and Research at Common Weal. You should mail him and tell him he is ignorant.

I don't know anything about him.

I do know you're a blatant liar.

[James310]

I don't know anything about him.

I do know you're a blatant liar.

Yes OK, I would hazard a guess he knows more than both of us. You should email him like you did when Ch4 were lying as well about the currency. Did they ever reply?

[JeMeSouviens]

Tory ERG faction have failed in their latest coup attempt. 1922 committee executive voted 9-7 not to change the rule that May can't be challenged until a year has elapsed.

It is quite amazing that someone so utterly inept at leadership can be so incredibly resilient to hang on in a leadership position.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes OK, I would hazard a guess he knows more than both of us. You should email him like you did when Ch4 were lying as well about the currency. Did they ever reply?

Deflect, deflect, lie, lie, lie.

You've really had a damn good go at poisoning the well on here haven't you?

[James310]

Deflect, deflect, lie, lie, lie.

You've really had a damn good go at poisoning the well on here haven't you?

You had a go at me for posting links, most of the stuff I have linked to then must be wrong and written by liars. This particular example was in an article in The National, you would think they would fact check their articles but guess not. Who would have thought The National paper publishing lies.

[ronaldo7]

You can't join the EU using a currency of another country and the Central Bank of another country. So how long will the wait be? 15 to 20 years as has been suggested?

Your French fellow has no power in the EU (or France by the looks of it) so it's a stretch to say the French are all lined up?

He is also under investigation for embezzlement of public funds!

Oh dear,

Which persona do we have today?


James, John, or Janet?

[JeMeSouviens]

You had a go at me for posting links, most of the stuff I have linked to then must be wrong and written by liars. This particular example was in an article in The National, you would think they would fact check their articles but guess not. Who would have thought The National paper publishing lies.

That's it, throw up as much chaff as you can. Spoil any decent discussion by cutting and pasting screeds of stuff you are either diametrically opposed to or don't understand or both. Repeatedly regurgitate stuff you know is untrue. You have been on a one man mission to ruin this forum for months. Still, anything for the cause of your beloved union. :rolleyes:

[James310]

That's it, throw up as much chaff as you can. Spoil any decent discussion by cutting and pasting screeds of stuff you are either diametrically opposed to or don't understand or both. Repeatedly regurgitate stuff you know is untrue. You have been on a one man mission to ruin this forum for months. Still, anything for the cause of your beloved union. :rolleyes:

Take a chill pill man. Have a kit kat.

[JeMeSouviens]

Take a chill pill man. Have a kit kat.

Deeply sad at what lying wrecker has done here != wound up.

It's a real shame.

[Ozyhibby]

Tory ERG faction have failed in their latest coup attempt. 1922 committee executive voted 9-7 not to change the rule that May can't be challenged until a year has elapsed.

It is quite amazing that someone so utterly inept at leadership can be so incredibly resilient to hang on in a leadership position.

The ERG are pretty inept when it comes to the tricky business of politics as well.


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[James310]

Deeply sad at what lying wrecker has done here != wound up.

It's a real shame.

A different opinion, perspective or take on something does not equal lies.

Look at Scotland has to join the Euro to join the EU. My take on that is that it does, your take is different. My take on it was the same as other posters on here who said the same, my take on it was also backed up with things like the Ch4 fact check. That's my perspective on things, you have a different take but I don't accuse you of spreading lies.

If you don't agree with my perspective that's fine, but don't call them out as lies just because you have a different opinion or perspective.

Was R7 declaring France was on board for accepting Scotland into the EU because some politician said so a lie or an opinion? Why not call that out as a lie as clearly one politcian nobody has heard of saying France would welcome Scotland into the EU with no conditions is not the whole Republic of France agreeing that.

[JeMeSouviens]

A different opinion, perspective or take on something does not equal lies.

Look at Scotland has to join the Euro to join the EU. My take on that is that it does, your take is different. My take on it was the same as other posters on here who said the same, my take on it was also backed up with things like the Ch4 fact check. That's my perspective on things, you have a different take but I don't accuse you of spreading lies.

If you don't agree with my perspective that's fine, but don't call them out as lies just because you have a different opinion or perspective.

If you keep saying things that are blatantly untrue, I'm going to keep calling you a liar.

[James310]

If you keep saying things that are blatantly untrue, I'm going to keep calling you a liar.

Likewise I will defend my right to have a different opinion or perspective on things. If we all thought the same this place would be a boring echo chamber.

[JeMeSouviens]

Likewise I will defend my right to have a different opinion or perspective on things. If we all thought the same this place would be a boring echo chamber.

If we all posted things that were truthful, we believed in and were honestly held opinions, it might revert to being a decent discussion.

Unfortunately, your constant obfuscation and lying are spoiling it.

[Callum_62]

I don’t understand this euro chat

Sweden, Denmark and Croatia are 3 countries ive visited that use there own currency

I seen a Swedish cabinet minister on telly the other week saying they will never adopt the Euro

So, whos right?


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[JeMeSouviens]

I don’t understand this euro chat

Sweden, Denmark and Croatia are 3 countries ive visited that use there own currency

I seen a Swedish cabinet minister on telly the other week saying they will never adopt the Euro

So, whos right?


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Denmark has an opt-out from the Maastricht treaty. The others are theoretically committed to join the Euro but choose not to take the necessary steps to join.

[James310]

If we all posted things that were truthful, we believed in and were honestly held opinions, it might revert to being a decent discussion.

Unfortunately, your constant obfuscation and lying are spoiling it.

Well if you feel like that then please ignore, you were supposed to have done that a long time ago.

[JeMeSouviens]

Well if you feel like that then please ignore, you were supposed to have done that a long time ago.

It's good to point out blatant lies and blatant liars when they are encountered.

[ronaldo7]

A different opinion, perspective or take on something does not equal lies.

Look at Scotland has to join the Euro to join the EU. My take on that is that it does, your take is different. My take on it was the same as other posters on here who said the same, my take on it was also backed up with things like the Ch4 fact check. That's my perspective on things, you have a different take but I don't accuse you of spreading lies.

If you don't agree with my perspective that's fine, but don't call them out as lies just because you have a different opinion or perspective.

Was R7 declaring France was on board for accepting Scotland into the EU because some politician said so a lie or an opinion? Why not call that out as a lie as clearly one politcian nobody has heard of saying France would welcome Scotland into the EU with no conditions is not the whole Republic of France agreeing that.

That's why I put, "just not all of them" in my post. Shame you didn't digest that before going off on one.

[James310]

That's why I put, "just not all of them" in my post. Shame you didn't digest that before going off on one.

So who are the rest of them? Great you found a nobody with no power who is being investigated for embezzlement, but who are the others?

[Moulin Yarns]

So, does anyone know how this brex**** is going?

[Ozyhibby]

So, does anyone know how this brex**** is going?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190425/ef6e86fad513a956b5540098e8bb29b2.jpg



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[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190425/ef6e86fad513a956b5540098e8bb29b2.jpg



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Thanks. At least it's a start.

[ronaldo7]

So who are the rest of them? Great you found a nobody with no power who is being investigated for embezzlement, but who are the others?

🐸🐸🐸

[Moulin Yarns]

🐸🐸🐸

Kermit and Robin want Scotland in the EU 🤔

[Hibrandenburg]

Likewise I will defend my right to have a different opinion or perspective on things. If we all thought the same this place would be a boring echo chamber.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but nobody is entitled to their own facts. Expect to get called out on dubious claims.

[makaveli1875]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but nobody is entitled to their own facts. Expect to get called out on dubious claims.

If this section of the forum was only for facts it would be a pretty empty space

[Moulin Yarns]

If this section of the forum was only for facts it would be a pretty empty space

It is so tempting to fix that, but I would get a row for insulting other posters :wink:

[Jack Hackett]

Hot on the heels of Grayling's FU over brexit ferries, and the government settling out of court with Eurotunnel for 33m...P&O are now suing for the same amount.

Good work Chris. :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Hot on the heels of Grayling's FU over brexit ferries, and the government settling out of court with Eurotunnel for 33m...P&O are now suing for the same amount.

Good work Chris. :aok:

Aye, getting through that £350 million that they were supposed to be saving for the NHS. But it's alright, by holding back the Universal Credit payments they will maybe save a wee bit.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hot on the heels of Grayling's FU over brexit ferries, and the government settling out of court with Eurotunnel for 33m...P&O are now suing for the same amount.

Good work Chris. :aok:

He is unbelievable. The post nuclear cockroach of the cabinet.

[lapsedhibee]

Hot on the heels of Grayling's FU over brexit ferries, and the government settling out of court with Eurotunnel for 33m...P&O are now suing for the same amount.

Good work Chris. :aok:

P&O compete with Stenaline on the Cairnryan to Norniron routes. If P&O get £33m then it's only fair that Stenaline should too.

[JeMeSouviens]

Stooshie in Labour over this EU election leaflet produced by the Leader's office (ie. Seumas Milne & co). Remainers up in arms that it suggests Brexit to proceed with no ref2.

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cc1f65223000032009443a9.png

Full size here - https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cc1f65223000032009443a9.png

[Callum_62]

Stooshie in Labour over this EU election leaflet produced by the Leader's office (ie. Seumas Milne & co). Remainers up in arms that it suggests Brexit to proceed with no ref2.

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cc1f65223000032009443a9.png

Full size here - https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cc1f65223000032009443a9.png

Mon Labour.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Mon Labour.


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The huffpost article is here - https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fury-as-corbyn-euro-elections-leaflet-suggests-labour-backs-brexit_uk_5cc1e94be4b031dc07ef6b3a


Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer, deputy leader Tom Watson and shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry were not consulted on the wording, even though they form part of the party’s Brexit sub-committee.

Crucially, the leader of the European Labour Party, MEP Richard Corbett, was not consulted about the leaflet’s content, sources said.


One senior Labour source said: “This is clearly a monumental and embarrassing f***-up. MPs and MEP candidates have roundly dismissed the leaflets. All eyes are on the manifesto now.

[Moulin Yarns]

Check out @AngusMacNeilSNP’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1121161791705317376?s=09

[JeMeSouviens]

This might come out unreadably small, full size is here - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5EJdQAW0AAgUvM.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5EJdQAW0AAgUvM.jpg


Remember when Brexit was going to bring down the EU like a row of dominos? :rolleyes::greengrin

[Callum_62]

Will of the people


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[JeMeSouviens]

Lab's position on whether to include ref2 in it's EU manifesto to be decided by its NEC on Tuesday.

Another momentous Brexit decision day - and hopefully another nail in Brexit's coffin. :pray:

[matty_f]

Will of the people


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All of the people?

[Callum_62]

All of the people?

Democracy!


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[Moulin Yarns]

Democracy!


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37% demockracy.

[Callum_62]

37% demockracy.

[emoji102][emoji1303]
Wonder if at any point these polls actually mean anything to the folk in charge

Im guessing there complete tunnel vision will stop any rational thought or actions


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[matty_f]

Democracy!


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It's a flawed democracy though, the referndum went on the smallest of margins, on an issue with no middle ground. For all the millions that voted leave that are demanding their right to be heard as the winning side, there are almost as many on the remain side with the same demand.

That's before you consider the millions that didn't vote, or the illegal campaign, or the multitudes of lies , false promises and moved goal-posts before, during, and after the referendum.

Shouting democracy as a way of making a point is pretty redundant as far as this goes.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's a flawed democracy though, the referndum went on the smallest of margins, on an issue with no middle ground. For all the millions that voted leave that are demanding their right to be heard as the winning side, there are almost as many on the remain side with the same demand.

That's before you consider the millions that didn't vote, or the illegal campaign, or the multitudes of lies , false promises and moved goal-posts before, during, and after the referendum.

Shouting democracy as a way of making a point is pretty redundant as far as this goes.

That's why I added the k

[matty_f]

That's why I added the k

Which I noticed.

Now.


:greengrin

[Callum_62]

It's a flawed democracy though, the referndum went on the smallest of margins, on an issue with no middle ground. For all the millions that voted leave that are demanding their right to be heard as the winning side, there are almost as many on the remain side with the same demand.

That's before you consider the millions that didn't vote, or the illegal campaign, or the multitudes of lies , false promises and moved goal-posts before, during, and after the referendum.

Shouting democracy as a way of making a point is pretty redundant as far as this goes.

Isnt it crazy that the people charged with now enacting this have also been reduced to slogans

Its embarrassing to be associated with such stupidity


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[matty_f]

Isnt it crazy that the people charged with now enacting this have also been reduced to slogans

Its embarrassing to be associated with such stupidity


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The whole thing is a farce, but it's what happens when someone puts together a badly set out referendum without specifying a clear mandate required.

The country is split, Parliament is split and the parties within Parliament are becoming increasingly split.

We have a toothless Prime Minister, who didn't want to leave, trying to put a brave face on a total disaster of a situation, trying to convince herself and others that her 'deal' (who else is sick of that word now?) is good.

We have politicians talking about ending freedom of movement being a good thing, FFS.

It's facilitating a rise in far-right extremists dressed up as legitimate politicians.

Embarrassing is definitely a fitting word, although I'm not sure it does the situation justice.

[lapsedhibee]

We have politicians talking about ending freedom of movement being a good thing, FFS.

FFS, it's perfectly natural for a country to want to have control of its borders. And if getting rid of the backstop means having no borders between Norniron and Ireland, and no borders between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, and consequently no borders between Great Britain and the EU, why can't you see that that all makes complete sense? :dunno:

[matty_f]

FFS, it's perfectly natural for a country to want to have control of its borders. And if getting rid of the backstop means having no borders between Norniron and Ireland, and no borders between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, and consequently no borders between Great Britain and the EU, why can't you see that that all makes complete sense? :dunno:
:greengrin

[grunt]

FFS, it's perfectly natural for a country to want to have control of its borders. We already have control of our borders. We chose not to exercise that control.

[lapsedhibee]

We already have control of our borders. We chose not to exercise that control.

We could fight them on the beaches, I suppose.

[Jack Hackett]

Jez still failing to commit https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-48078468

[hibsbollah]

Jez still failing to commit https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-48078468

He can't 'commit' because the shadow cabinet decides the wording collectively on Tuesday.

[JeMeSouviens]

He can't 'commit' because the shadow cabinet decides the wording collectively on Tuesday.

NEC I think?

[hibsbollah]

NEC I think?

Thats true, thanks for paying attention:greengrin

The NEC obviously contains union representation as well as members of the shadow cabinet; I have no idea whether that is advantageous or not for the chances of a guarantee of a confirmatory referendum. They're a fairly diverse bunch.

[Jack Hackett]

Chickens coming home to roost?

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-04-30/corbynista-left-splits-over-brexit-referendum/

[lapsedhibee]

In latest YouGov poll, 5% of people believe that UKIP is anti-Brexit and 3% believe that the Brexit Party is anti-Brexit.

[JeMeSouviens]

Corbynites win at the NEC - Lab fudge continues. No promise of ref2 unless it's a "bad Tory deal".

Baws. :bitchy:

[Ozyhibby]

Corbynites win at the NEC - Lab fudge continues. No promise of ref2 unless it's a "bad Tory deal".

Baws. :bitchy:

SNP will benefit in Scotland. ChangeUK might just get the boost it needs.


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[JeMeSouviens]

SNP will benefit in Scotland. ChangeUK might just get the boost it needs.


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I just don't get it. The Brexiters are crying betrayal en masse over May's deal, so nothing Labour would do on Brexit would get them onside. Now Remainers are going to be pissed off too (and on current polling that's 55%+ of the electorate). Presumably the Labour strategists think they have nowhere realistically to go.

[Fife-Hibee]

I just don't get it. The Brexiters are crying betrayal en masse over May's deal, so nothing Labour would do on Brexit would get them onside. Now Remainers are going to be pissed off too (and on current polling that's 55%+ of the electorate). Presumably the Labour strategists think they have nowhere realistically to go.

It's almost as if, they don't want to be in government...

[hibsbollah]

I just don't get it. The Brexiters are crying betrayal en masse over May's deal, so nothing Labour would do on Brexit would get them onside. Now Remainers are going to be pissed off too (and on current polling that's 55%+ of the electorate). Presumably the Labour strategists think they have nowhere realistically to go.

It's a politically stupid decision. Chase the young vote, the energised vote and the core vote is what politics is about these days. And they haven't done it. And my total confidence that this wouldn't happen was clearly misplaced. I still think the most likely outcome is Labour will end up backing a second referendum, on the basis that there won't be any other options left and a soft brexit deal wont get done. But it further delays getting the whole issue resolved and will clearly antagonise a proportion of the membership who backed him in the first place. Feeble.

[Callum_62]

Mon Labour as they say

Must be the most spineless opposition in history


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[G B Young]

Hibs season ticket holder Brian Monteith standing as a Brexit Party candidate in the EU elections (sorry if already mentioned):

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brian-monteith-why-i-ve-lost-all-patience-with-the-conservative-party-1-4918079

[Callum_62]

So the Brexit party has been formed to deliver “Brexit” come hell or high water?

Sounds sensible.


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[Bristolhibby]

In latest YouGov poll, 5% of people believe that UKIP is anti-Brexit and 3% believe that the Brexit Party is anti-Brexit.

Those people should have the vote taken off them.

J

[SHODAN]

Hibs season ticket holder Brian Monteith standing as a Brexit Party candidate in the EU elections (sorry if already mentioned):

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brian-monteith-why-i-ve-lost-all-patience-with-the-conservative-party-1-4918079

Absolutely no surprise there, every time a lunatic hard-right Scotsman article pops up on my news feed I know it's him. Glad to see the back of those.

[jonty]

I guess this relates to a few threads on here, brexit, Labour, Tories.
https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1124331359823069186?s=21

[heretoday]

Just come to a deal you numpties! Even if you don't fancy it 100% it'll be possible to tweak it in future.

Nothing's in stone these days.

[James310]

https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/1124714731695149057?s=19

Hearing from one senior legal source that serious consideration being given to potential case to immediately annul referendum result because of Russian interference and misconduct case against May and Bojo for ignoring clear MI6/ISC warnings and then misleading Parliament.

[Just Alf]

Brexit nightmare for the 'big two'

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/05/cynical-westminster-fix-wont-end-brexit-nightmares-of-may-and-corbyn



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[Moulin Yarns]

Just come to a deal you numpties! Even if you don't fancy it 100% it'll be possible to tweak it in future.

Nothing's in stone these days.

Just cancel it you numpties, you've had long enough to get it over the line.

[JeMeSouviens]

Supposedly the "deal on the deal" Labour are being offered is a Customs Union (but not called that) until 2022. :confused:

Given that if a deal goes ahead the UK would be in transition to end 2020 or more likely 2021 and then would have about a 99.999999% chance of entering the backstop, which would be 99.999998% likely to endure for at least a decade, and is a more comprehensive all UK Customs and regulations alignment, wtf is the point of that? Labour would be utterly mad to bail the Tories out on those terms. :confused:

[lapsedhibee]

Supposedly the "deal on the deal" Labour are being offered is a Customs Union (but not called that) until 2022. :confused:

Given that if a deal goes ahead the UK would be in transition to end 2020 or more likely 2021 and then would have about a 99.999999% chance of entering the backstop, which would be 99.999998% likely to endure for at least a decade, and is a more comprehensive all UK Customs and regulations alignment, wtf is the point of that? Labour would be utterly mad to bail the Tories out on those terms. :confused:

Shirley the Labs are just eking the process out to ensure that the Euro elections happen, during which they expect the Tories to completely implode, and then the Labs get to govern for the next decade or so? Don't think they've any intentions of bailing the Tories out.

[JeMeSouviens]

Shirley the Labs are just eking the process out to ensure that the Euro elections happen, during which they expect the Tories to completely implode, and then the Labs get to govern for the next decade or so? Don't think they've any intentions of bailing the Tories out.

Well, you would certainly hope so but there is a lot of chatter that a deal is close. Probably mostly over optimistic spinning from the Con side.

[lapsedhibee]

Well, you would certainly hope so but there is a lot of chatter that a deal is close. Probably mostly over optimistic spinning from the Con side.

Yes but right from the start there's been chatter about how constructive all the talks are and how they're not poles apart blablabla but four or five weeks on there's complete disagreement about a customs union and a confirmatory vote. Complete sham imo.

[Moulin Yarns]

Supposedly the "deal on the deal" Labour are being offered is a Customs Union (but not called that) until 2022. :confused:

Given that if a deal goes ahead the UK would be in transition to end 2020 or more likely 2021 and then would have about a 99.999999% chance of entering the backstop, which would be 99.999998% likely to endure for at least a decade, and is a more comprehensive all UK Customs and regulations alignment, wtf is the point of that? Labour would be utterly mad to bail the Tories out on those terms. :confused:

Remember that Theresa may will be replaced by a hard brexiteer and that deal would probably be ripped up.

[Ozyhibby]

Shirley the Labs are just eking the process out to ensure that the Euro elections happen, during which they expect the Tories to completely implode, and then the Labs get to govern for the next decade or so? Don't think they've any intentions of bailing the Tories out.

Labour won’t be winning any election anytime soon. By the time the election comes around again the tories will have anew leader and will putting brexit (however it pans out) behind them and selling a new project for renewal in Britain and people will go for that because the alternative is Corbyn.

[JeMeSouviens]

Labour won’t be winning any election anytime soon. By the time the election comes around again the tories will have anew leader and will putting brexit (however it pans out) behind them and selling a new project for renewal in Britain and people will go for that because the alternative is Corbyn.

Yep. Although Corbyn increased Lab's vote to 40% in 2017, he also increased the Con vote to 42% (because let's face it, May sure as hell didn't win anybody over).

... and before Hibsbollah arrives to point it out, yes Lab has been in the lead in recent polling but with their own numbers actually falling. It's the arrival of Farage's latest band of barely concealed fascists that's splitting off the extreme end of the Tory vote. Doubtful whether that will survive once the Tories have ditched May and we're in a 2 party GE squeeze situation.

[Jack Hackett]

Labour won’t be winning any election anytime soon. By the time the election comes around again the tories will have anew leader and will putting brexit (however it pans out) behind them and selling a new project for renewal in Britain and people will go for that because the alternative is Corbyn.

Corbyn or Johnson.


21976

[Bostonhibby]

In latest YouGov poll, 5% of people believe that UKIP is anti-Brexit and 3% believe that the Brexit Party is anti-Brexit.The other 112% think Nigel Farage should get a hefty increase to his EU salary and his EU pension.

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[lapsedhibee]

The other 112% think Nigel Farage should get a hefty increase to his EU salary and his EU pension.
So he should. Selflessly dragging himself back out of retirement to stand up for the people against the political classes. What a guy!

[Bostonhibby]

So he should. Selflessly dragging himself back out of retirement to stand up for the people against the political classes. What a guy![emoji106]

But selflessly not dragging himself to work very often for the rewards collected.



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[JeMeSouviens]

An interesting bit of analysis on the English locals here from a politics professor:

https://unherd.com/2019/05/are-these-the-last-gasps-of-our-old-political-order/

What's particularly striking reading this is that almost none of it applies in Scotland. We now have almost entirely separate politics. 20th anniversary of the first Scottish Parliament election this week.

[Callum_62]

A vote for the Brexit party is a vote for a WTO Brexit says Farage

Absolutely absurd that people are pushing that


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[JeMeSouviens]

Yes but right from the start there's been chatter about how constructive all the talks are and how they're not poles apart blablabla but four or five weeks on there's complete disagreement about a customs union and a confirmatory vote. Complete sham imo.

From the Mirror's pol ed, Pippa Crerar:


Labour sources playing down expectations of any deal being struck in cross-party talks today - saying that all the briefing over the weekend of one being close came from Govt side.

[Jack Hackett]

It has been very quietly announced that we will be holding Euro elections. As with other deadlines she promised she'd get us out by, the PM 'regrets' that we have to take part, but the delay will be 'as short as possible'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48188951

Can't say I'm totally surprised at the announcement as i received my Polling Card over a week ago


I'm beginning to see parallels with the 'New Stand' saga

[lapsedhibee]

I'm beginning to see parallels with the 'New Stand' saga
Except that however shambolic that process has been, at least at the 'end' of it there will definitely be something better than they had before.

[Jack Hackett]

Except that however shambolic that process has been, at least at the 'end' of it there will definitely be something better than they had before.

:faf:

:top marks


Not so quietly now as the beeb are now headlining it

[JeMeSouviens]

Excellent if somewhat scary analysis from Sky's Lewis Goodall of the fertile ground for Farage's fascists:

https://news.sky.com/story/trumpism-is-coming-to-britain-and-nigel-farage-is-leading-the-charge-11714025

[Hibrandenburg]

Excellent if somewhat scary analysis from Sky's Lewis Goodall of the fertile ground for Farage's fascists:

https://news.sky.com/story/trumpism-is-coming-to-britain-and-nigel-farage-is-leading-the-charge-11714025

The vacuum that the stalemate on Brexit has left was always going to be a breeding ground for discontent. Unfortunately I agree with him in that the worst is yet to come.

[Moulin Yarns]

How are these ferry contracts going Mr Grayling?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48208121

Looking like the Government will have paid out £100m in compensation and for what? Ignore the warnings and you get your fingers burned.

[lapsedhibee]

How are these ferry contracts going Mr Grayling?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48208121

Looking like the Government will have paid out £100m in compensation and for what? Ignore the warnings and you get your fingers burned.

If P&O gets a payout then shirley StenaLine will have to as well, and what about the boy that crosses the Almond to the Dalmeny Estate at Cramond? The cost of fayling's not peaked yet.

[Moulin Yarns]

If P&O gets a payout then shirley StenaLine will have to as well, and what about the boy that crosses the Almond to the Dalmeny Estate at Cramond? The cost of fayling's not peaked yet.

I know, my £100m is a 'conservative' :wink: estimate of known compensations to date, and we don't actually have any ferry contracts at the end of the day, £100m down the drain.

[wpj]

Grayling must have some pics of May and Cameron's pig somewhere. His incompetence is astounding, not just the ferries but everywhere he has had the misfortune to manage. Unbelievable he is still in cabinet.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not sure if JMS has posted about the panelbase poll showing a labour win in Westminster, the poll was before the England Council elections.

https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1126053233158512640?s=19

[matty_f]

Grayling must have some pics of May and Cameron's pig somewhere. His incompetence is astounding, not just the ferries but everywhere he has had the misfortune to manage. Unbelievable he is still in cabinet.

I think he's only still in a role because everyone else has either resigned or been punted at some point :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

More tory brexiteers join the queue to push may. McVey the latest.

[JeMeSouviens]

Not sure if JMS has posted about the panelbase poll showing a labour win in Westminster, the poll was before the England Council elections.

https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1126053233158512640?s=19

Don't think I did. Since the 29th March Brexit date passed, the Tories have nosedived and Brexit party being added to the options is making it even worse for them. Lab has taken a lead in almost all polls over the last 6 weeks or so:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_genera l_election#National_poll_results

[JeMeSouviens]

More tory brexiteers join the queue to push may. McVey the latest.

She is in the top echelon of Tory loathsomeness*. :sick:



* saying something!

[Ozyhibby]

I think he's only still in a role because everyone else has either resigned or been punted at some point :greengrin

Yip, they are clean out of replacements to the point where there are a number of unfilled posts. I don’t think we have had a disabilities minister for months now.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Don't think I did. Since the 29th March Brexit date passed, the Tories have nosedived and Brexit party being added to the options is making it even worse for them. Lab has taken a lead in almost all polls over the last 6 weeks or so:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_genera l_election#National_poll_results

LibDems could be the balance again, it might depend on who asks first

[Just Alf]

Yip, they are clean out of replacements to the point where there are a number of unfilled posts. I don’t think we have had a disabilities minister for months now.


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So much for those going on about "getting on with the day job"

[Just Alf]

LibDems could be the balance again, it might depend on who asks first

You'd have to hope that after their last sojourn with the Tories impacting them at the polls so much* they would get back into bed with them again.


*despite them arguably managing to reduce the worst excess's of the Tories.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yip, they are clean out of replacements to the point where there are a number of unfilled posts. I don’t think we have had a disabilities minister for months now.


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Alistair Burt who quit as a foreign office minister (responsible for the Middle East) has publicly said he wants the job back because nobody else is doing it atm.

[JeMeSouviens]

You'd have to hope that after their last sojourn with the Tories impacting them at the polls so much* they would get back into bed with them again.


*despite them arguably managing to reduce the worst excess's of the Tories.

The reducing the worst excesses line doesn't hold very well when you consider the Tories wouldn't have been in government to perpetrate *any* of their excesses without the Libs. Going back on a promise that you went to the bother of all signing a pledge on wasn't the best look either.

[Callum_62]

Labour confirms commitment to leave EU in manifesto and party conference says Jeremy Corbyn


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[SHODAN]

Don't think I did. Since the 29th March Brexit date passed, the Tories have nosedived and Brexit party being added to the options is making it even worse for them. Lab has taken a lead in almost all polls over the last 6 weeks or so:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_genera l_election#National_poll_results

That just translates to all the Brexit votes going to the Tories at the actual election and another "surprising" majority like last time.

[Bristolhibby]

Labour confirms commitment to leave EU in manifesto and party conference says Jeremy Corbyn


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Lib Dems for me in the South West.

J

[Jack Hackett]

Labour confirms commitment to leave EU in manifesto and party conference says Jeremy Corbyn


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Battle lines drawn then. Bye bye Labour... it's been emotional :bye:

[stoneyburn hibs]

Battle lines drawn then. Bye bye Labour... it's been emotional :bye:

Who (if any) would you vote for in the future Jack?

[Hibrandenburg]

Labour confirms commitment to leave EU in manifesto and party conference says Jeremy Corbyn


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Dying to hear that dye in the wool separatist "Tornadoes70" take on this. :faf:

[Hibrandenburg]

BBC Question Time. Mental, Farage is an absolute basket case, charlatan doesn't do him justice.

[Smartie]

BBC Question Time. Mental, Farage is an absolute basket case, charlatan doesn't do him justice.

Nigel Farage is the most foul and dangerous figure to emerge in British politics within my lifetime.

He's a mystical pied piper for stupid people to follow into the sea.

[Hibrandenburg]

Nigel Farage is the most foul and dangerous figure to emerge in British politics within my lifetime.

He's a mystical pied piper for stupid people to follow into the sea.

I still don't get why the BBC invite this arse onto the programme to voice his racist ideology, you wouldn't invite a rapist on to defend rape.

[Callum_62]

I still don't get why the BBC invite this arse onto the programme to voice his racist ideology, you wouldn't invite a rapist on to defend rape.

Its pathetic

Even when we was relevant he was the leader of tiny party in WM

And yet he was consistently on the tele

It gets folk talking but its high time the media took some responsibility for promoting this garbage

*didnt see QT so cant comment specifically on that*


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[Hibrandenburg]

Its pathetic

Even when we was relevant he was the leader of tiny party in WM

And yet he was consistently on the tele

It gets folk talking but its high time the media took some responsibility for promoting this garbage

*didnt see QT so cant comment specifically on that*


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It's an eye opener, the panel touched on various problems in our society other than Brexit and he had nothing to say never mind offer. He's a snake oil salesman only interested in creating division to profit his own agenda.

[Callum_62]

It's an eye opener, the panel touched on various problems in our society other than Brexit and he had nothing to say never mind offer. He's a snake oil salesman only interested in creating division to profit his own agenda.

Why would he have something to offer, he now leads a party whos sole goal is to deliver Brexit and somehow save democracy

The Brexit were were promised in 2016 isnt achievable and is about as far away from the WTO/no deal brexit farage is now pushing (after previously pushing the Norway model)

Its a bit rich to scream about betrayal of democracy when your solution has never been tested on the people at all


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[Fife-Hibee]

Not to mention the carefully selected BBC audience of looney Farage supporters who were cheering every breath.

[Jack Hackett]

Who (if any) would you vote for in the future Jack?

As far as the immediate future goes, It will be between Libs, Greens or Change UK. I have one overriding priority atm.

[stoneyburn hibs]

As far as the immediate future goes, It will be between Libs, Greens or Change UK. I have one overriding priority atm.

Ok thanks.

[Tornadoes70]

Dying to hear that dye in the wool separatist "Tornadoes70" take on this. :faf:

Can't quite grasp the satire here :wink:

Jeremy for me has adopted the correct stance despite Snp/Tory claims otherwise. He's playing a longer game as a skilled politician should do in these times of smaller parties such as ukip/greens/snp etc being part of the mainstream which will end soon enough as folk begin to realise Labour have been transformed by Jeremy and by lots of other good folk working extremely hard behind the scenes.

Now what currency do the snp advise using and what are the six tests that Nicola couldn't quite remember were again in the very unlikely event that the separatists did ever obtain their singular nationalistic goal?

If you believe in tackling injustice, inequality, poverty, climate change, putting in place a fair economy across the UK etc, only Labour can deliver on these crucial issues.

The Tories are in chaos and crisis as is the Snp who crave only one thing above all others which is separatism no matter how it affects the Scottish folk which it would in many many different ways but they don't want to talk about those.

You did ask :wink:

[Fife-Hibee]

Jeremy for me has adopted the correct stance despite Snp/Tory claims otherwise. He's playing a longer game as a skilled politician should do in these times of smaller parties such as ukip/greens/snp etc being part of the mainstream which will end soon enough as folk begin to realise Labour have been transformed by Jeremy and by lots of other good folk working extremely hard behind the scenes.

Now what currency do the snp advise using and what are the six tests that Nicola couldn't quite remember were again in the very unlikely event that the separatists did ever obtain their singular nationalistic goal?

If you believe in tackling injustice, inequality, poverty, climate change, putting in place a fair economy across the UK etc, only Labour can deliver on these crucial issues.

The Tories are in chaos and crisis as is the Snp who crave only one thing above all others which is separatism no matter how it affects the Scottish folk which it would in many many different ways but they don't want to talk about those.

You did ask :wink:


Can't quite grasp the satire here :wink:

Ah, now I get it! :aok:

[Callum_62]

Can't quite grasp the satire here :wink:

Jeremy for me has adopted the correct stance despite Snp/Tory claims otherwise. He's playing a longer game as a skilled politician should do in these times of smaller parties such as ukip/greens/snp etc being part of the mainstream which will end soon enough as folk begin to realise Labour have been transformed by Jeremy and by lots of other good folk working extremely hard behind the scenes.

Now what currency do the snp advise using and what are the six tests that Nicola couldn't quite remember were again in the very unlikely event that the separatists did ever obtain their singular nationalistic goal?

If you believe in tackling injustice, inequality, poverty, climate change, putting in place a fair economy across the UK etc, only Labour can deliver on these crucial issues.

The Tories are in chaos and crisis as is the Snp who crave only one thing above all others which is separatism no matter how it affects the Scottish folk which it would in many many different ways but they don't want to talk about those.

You did ask :wink:

A no deal brexit will increase poverty - infact any form of leaving will make us poorer

Forget deflection onto what Indy means - what are your own party or more precisely your leader doing to stop the immediate and imminent Brexit threat?

Playing a long “game” is folly when we have a imminent huge constitutional change looming

Agree re tories in crisis but the fact labour are polling very close to the crisis party tells you exactly what the public thinks of the “oppositions” performace

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[Tornadoes70]

Ah, now I get it! :aok:

The Pied Piper type post.

Don't mention nationalism/separatism or attempt to make a valid case for it or it might remind Scottish folk that it would include seismic changes to their way of lives that would most likely impoverish them as whatever currency was initiated was both seriously devalued and not worth a farthing abroad.

The Scots deserve far better than the one tune that's being played over and over again by the nationalist separatists.

Scotland would improve both economically and socially by getting rid of the fantasist singular issue fanatics that are the snp and their sidekicks the greens.

[Tornadoes70]

A no deal brexit will increase poverty - infact any form of leaving will make us poorer

Forget deflection onto what Indy means - what are your own party or more precisely your leader doing to stop the immediate and imminent Brexit threat?

Playing a long “game” is folly when we have a imminent huge constitutional change looming

Agree re tories in crisis but the fact labour are polling very close to the crisis party tells you exactly what the public thinks of the “oppositions” performace

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Seeing as its the tories in charge just now there's not a lot we could do to 'stop' any 'immediate and imminent Brexit threat' other than what we have been doing in trying to eliminate any 'no deal' being put into action.

We're prepared for all outcomes. If a general election is called we'll likely win it and put into place a fairer more equal society and implement a left of center ethos back into UK politics once again.

[Moulin Yarns]

Can't quite grasp the satire here :wink:

Jeremy for me has adopted the correct stance despite Snp/Tory claims otherwise. He's playing a longer game as a skilled politician should do in these times of smaller parties such as ukip/greens/snp etc being part of the mainstream which will end soon enough as folk begin to realise Labour have been transformed by Jeremy and by lots of other good folk working extremely hard behind the scenes.

Now what currency do the snp advise using and what are the six tests that Nicola couldn't quite remember were again in the very unlikely event that the separatists did ever obtain their singular nationalistic goal?

If you believe in tackling injustice, inequality, poverty, climate change, putting in place a fair economy across the UK etc, only Labour can deliver on these crucial issues.

The Tories are in chaos and crisis as is the Snp who crave only one thing above all others which is separatism no matter how it affects the Scottish folk which it would in many many different ways but they don't want to talk about those.

You did ask :wink:

As this thread is about Brexit that's what I will stick with.

In that first paragraph you suggested support for smaller parties will end soon. I suggest that you look at the results of recent English local elections to see the truth.

Jeremy is pro Brexit and is as complicit in the mess that Britain will likely be in post Brexit and that is what you want, is it?

[Smartie]

The Pied Piper type post.

Don't mention nationalism/separatism or attempt to make a valid case for it or it might remind Scottish folk that it would include seismic changes to their way of lives that would most likely impoverish them as whatever currency was initiated was both seriously devalued and not worth a farthing abroad.

The Scots deserve far better than the one tune that's being played over and over again by the nationalist separatists.

Scotland would improve both economically and socially by getting rid of the fantasist singular issue fanatics that are the snp and their sidekicks the greens.

Not sure if this intended for me, I made the "pied piper" post.........

I accept that many people will see parallels between the SNP/ independence and Farage's Brexit stuff.

The main difference that I would highlight at this stage is that Gove, Boris, Fox et al all had an opportunity to deliver a Brexit in their own vision. Cameron vacated his position and left it up to someone who believed in Brexit to deliver it. It speaks volumes that NOBODY came forward to do so. They knew that what they'd done was that in a bid to further their own careers they'd put forward a Brexit vision based on untruths and the Brexit they promised the electorate didn't and couldn't exist. Farage at least has never promised to ever have to deliver on any promises. He can whip up anger and focus attention on a non-existent enemy but he has no intention of actually following through on any of his plans and never has. He has no responsibility for making post-Brexit (whatever type of Brexit that might be) a success, and to make post-hard-Brexit a success would be very challenging for anyone even if they actually did believe it to be possible.

The difference with the SNP is that the SNP take up positions in government and attempt to govern within the constraints that they think exist, whilst highlighting change that could be made to make their job easier and the chances of them doing a good job higher. They stick their necks on the line, they risk failure. If independence were to be delivered, they would be there on day one fighting, battling and grasping to make a success of it with all their might. They wouldn't just disappear into the ether hoping that someone else would salvage something from the chaos they had caused.

Trump, Farage and the like are particularly dangerous because they pretend to have simple answers to difficult and complex issues. Many of us know for sure that independence would be a rocky road and you'd need to be utterly delusional to think otherwise. But, given the alternatives that exist these days, that rocky road still looks the best to me from here.

[lapsedhibee]

I still don't get why the BBC invite this arse onto the programme to voice his racist ideology, you wouldn't invite a rapist on to defend rape.

Everyone loves a cheeky chappie. Nige is a great one for smiling and chuckling when he doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's proper elitist to respond with actual reasoned arguments innit.

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1122869490155491328?lang=en

[ronaldo7]

Everyone loves a cheeky chappie. Nige is a great one for smiling and chuckling when he doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's proper elitist to respond with actual reasoned arguments innit.

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1122869490155491328?lang=en

Some (not all) in England can't get enough of him. It's like they're a bit different to most in Scotland, who don't like him or his non existent policies. 😊

[lapsedhibee]

Some (not all) in England can't get enough of him. It's like they're a bit different to most in Scotland, who don't like him or his non existent policies. 😊

His new vehicle'll get a huge vote in Scotland too in a fortnight.

[JeMeSouviens]

His new vehicle'll get a huge vote in Scotland too in a fortnight.

Uncomfortably large I expect but it's polling about half as much %age wise here as it is in England. Plus, practically all those votes are going to come from the Tories, who let's face it, are mostly just Farageists with a very thin veneer applied.

[ronaldo7]

His new vehicle'll get a huge vote in Scotland too in a fortnight.

I'm sure he'll get the Tories flocking to him in numbers, and no doubt some of the extreme Brexiteers who live among us, but to win, nah, although, he might get the old Coburn place.

[lapsedhibee]

Uncomfortably large I expect but it's polling about half as much %age wise here as it is in England. Plus, practically all those votes are going to come from the Tories, who let's face it, are mostly just Farageists with a very thin veneer applied.

I'm pretty sure Scotland'll return a Brexit Party MEP. For those of us that see Brexit as primarily an English Nationalist project, that likelihood suggests that the Scottish electorate isn't any more sophisticated than the English electorate.

[Callum_62]

I'm pretty sure Scotland'll return a Brexit Party MEP. For those of us that see Brexit as primarily an English Nationalist project, that likelihood suggests that the Scottish electorate isn't any more sophisticated than the English electorate.

1/6 aint bad.


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[lapsedhibee]

1/6 aint bad.


1/12 was enough to swing the future of the country in 2016. 1/6 is twice that. Outraged! :grr: :panic:

[ronaldo7]

I'm pretty sure Scotland'll return a Brexit Party MEP. For those of us that see Brexit as primarily an English Nationalist project, that likelihood suggests that the Scottish electorate isn't any more sophisticated than the English electorate.

We have six MEPs. They'll probably pick up one. If they pick up two then they've done better than expected.

I think the Scottish electorate are far more sophisticated than, England. Just my opinion though. 👍.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm pretty sure Scotland'll return a Brexit Party MEP. For those of us that see Brexit as primarily an English Nationalist project, that likelihood suggests that the Scottish electorate isn't any more sophisticated than the English electorate.

I'm not sure I've ever thought the Scottish electorate was "more sophisticated"? People are people after all.

I think our political leadership is much better than England's (pound for pound) for 2 reasons: we don't have nearly the same level of post-imperial hangup and we draw our politicians from a much deeper pool. I mean half the Tory leadership didn't just go to the same uni, they went to the same ******g school!

Anyway, there are 2 significant sections of Scottish society Farage will appeal to: the old school British nationalists of the Orange, loyal, GSTQ, WATP bent and people from elsewhere in the UK who didn't think they were moving to a different country.

[The Modfather]

Can't quite grasp the satire here :wink:

Jeremy for me has adopted the correct stance despite Snp/Tory claims otherwise. He's playing a longer game as a skilled politician should do in these times of smaller parties such as ukip/greens/snp etc being part of the mainstream which will end soon enough as folk begin to realise Labour have been transformed by Jeremy and by lots of other good folk working extremely hard behind the scenes.

Now what currency do the snp advise using and what are the six tests that Nicola couldn't quite remember were again in the very unlikely event that the separatists did ever obtain their singular nationalistic goal?

If you believe in tackling injustice, inequality, poverty, climate change, putting in place a fair economy across the UK etc, only Labour can deliver on these crucial issues.

The Tories are in chaos and crisis as is the Snp who crave only one thing above all others which is separatism no matter how it affects the Scottish folk which it would in many many different ways but they don't want to talk about those.

You did ask :wink:

What does “Jeremy is playing the longer game” actually mean? Is there any substance to it or is it just rhetoric? Sounds more like Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burned than any master plan by Corbyn.

Brexit has shown none of the parties are up to the job.

[lapsedhibee]

there are 2 significant sections of Scottish society Farage will appeal to: the old school British nationalists of the Orange, loyal, GSTQ, WATP bent and people from elsewhere in the UK who didn't think they were moving to a different country.

Might be a third group, susceptible to the appearance of a strong, charismatic leader, and not bothered about policies, consequences, etc. Will be interesting to see what their total vote is in a fortnight, and whether it might be significantly more than just Gers fans and Englishers.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure I've ever thought the Scottish electorate was "more sophisticated"? People are people after all.

I think our political leadership is much better than England's (pound for pound) for 2 reasons: we don't have nearly the same level of post-imperial hangup and we draw our politicians from a much deeper pool. I mean half the Tory leadership didn't just go to the same uni, they went to the same ******g school!

Anyway, there are 2 significant sections of Scottish society Farage will appeal to: the old school British nationalists of the Orange, loyal, GSTQ, WATP bent and people from elsewhere in the UK who didn't think they were moving to a different country.

That’s the same people Ruth Davidson has built her Tory revival in Scotland on. Oh dear.


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[Bristolhibby]

Will the Brexit Party stand in the General Election or Scottish Parliament Elections.

You’ve got to think that they’ll be rinsing votes off the Tories.

I’ll tell you what makes me shudder, Anne Widdecombe is the Brexit Parties top of the list for the South West. Shame I’m going to have her representing me yodeling on in Brussels.

Still, there’s hope still, at least we are having these elections.

J

[Callum_62]

Will the Brexit Party stand in the General Election or Scottish Parliament Elections.

You’ve got to think that they’ll be rinsing votes off the Tories.

I’ll tell you what makes me shudder, Anne Widdecombe is the Brexit Parties top of the list for the South West. Shame I’m going to have her representing me yodeling on in Brussels.

Still, there’s hope still, at least we are having these elections.

J

In sure Farage said they will stand in the next GE


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[JeMeSouviens]

That’s the same people Ruth Davidson has built her Tory revival in Scotland on. Oh dear.


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Ruth has one other segment in her constituency - the "I'm all right Jack's" who are personally comfortable and don't really care much about indy or the EU except in as much as it might effect their own wealth. They are instinctively pro status quo but she might lose some of them if they start to see the short term disruption of indy as worth it to avoid the long term pain of Brexit. In any case, they aren't ideologically small state or pro Brit nat so are unlikely to drift off towards Farage.

[Moulin Yarns]

The Eu elections.

Scotland elects 6 MEPs and there are 9 parties standing, someone has to lose out.

Last time

SNP 2
Tory 1
Lab 2
UKIP 1

The way the parties have performed recently suggests the SNP will hold up, less clear how others will do as there are more ways to spread the vote

Here is my prediction

SNP 2
LibDem 1
Lab 1
Green 1
Brexit 1

The way I see it is votes for the tories, UKIP and Brexit will largely be spread too far and Brexit will scrape in because of the cheeky chappy in charge

LibDems have shown steady recovery and Greens have consolidated since 2015

Labour, there is still the (non pc view) put a red rosette on a chimp and they will vote for it

ChangeUK is too new to have built support and Independents, not likely to win.


PS Based on nothing more than a gut feeling

[Moulin Yarns]

I saw the following tweet yesterday



I got a leaflet from the Brexit party in the post today. Addresed to me. Which is strange because I'm pretty sure I'm not on the public electoral roll. Curious where they got my name and address from...


It appears the Royal Mail (wonder why it hasn't been rebranded British Mail yet) will deliver election leaflets for any party that can afford a print run of around 2,800,000. The party don't have your address

[JeMeSouviens]

The Eu elections.

Scotland elects 6 MEPs and there are 9 parties standing, someone has to lose out.

Last time

SNP 2
Tory 1
Lab 2
UKIP 1

The way the parties have performed recently suggests the SNP will hold up, less clear how others will do as there are more ways to spread the vote

Here is my prediction

SNP 2
LibDem 1
Lab 1
Green 1
Brexit 1

The way I see it is votes for the tories, UKIP and Brexit will largely be spread too far and Brexit will scrape in because of the cheeky chappy in charge

LibDems have shown steady recovery and Greens have consolidated since 2015

Labour, there is still the (non pc view) put a red rosette on a chimp and they will vote for it

ChangeUK is too new to have built support and Independents, not likely to win.


PS Based on nothing more than a gut feeling


The 2 recent Scotland only polls (yougov and panelbase) both asked for Euro VI and both would return 3 SNP, 1 Lab, 1 Tory, 1 Brexofascist.

[Moulin Yarns]

The 2 recent Scotland only polls (yougov and panelbase) both asked for Euro VI and both would return 3 SNP, 1 Lab, 1 Tory, 1 Brexofascist.

Let's put it out there as a spur for the LibDems and Greens to rally to cause

[Future17]

I saw the following tweet yesterday



I got a leaflet from the Brexit party in the post today. Addresed to me. Which is strange because I'm pretty sure I'm not on the public electoral roll. Curious where they got my name and address from...


It appears the Royal Mail (wonder why it hasn't been rebranded British Mail yet) will deliver election leaflets for any party that can afford a print run of around 2,800,000. The party don't have your address

Parties who are officially registered with the Electoral Commission as contesting an election are entitled to copies of the full electoral roll, so not being on the "public" version is irrelevant. Parties are also entitled to free delivery of one electoral communication under the law.

[James310]

Parties who are officially registered with the Electoral Commission as contesting an election are entitled to copies of the full electoral roll, so not being on the "public" version is irrelevant. Parties are also entitled to free delivery of one electoral communication under the law.

Some parties even manage to send them to the right people at the right address.

[wpj]

I still don't get why the BBC invite this arse onto the programme to voice his racist ideology, you wouldn't invite a rapist on to defend rape.

Watching it on BBCiplayer. I am genuinely baffled why Farage is allowed so much media time. He is an odious prick. Where are the audience trawled from? Week on week they become more right wing. Not at all representative of people I know.

[makaveli1875]

Nothing like a bit Nigel to whip the Holy Ground into a frenzy of seethe :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Let's put it out there as a spur for the LibDems and Greens to rally to cause

The best way for any remainer in Scotland to vote is SNP.
Here is a handy map.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/50470a43a1c164364243f706c9bc567a.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Watching it on BBCiplayer. I am genuinely baffled why Farage is allowed so much media time. He is an odious prick. Where are the audience trawled from? Week on week they become more right wing. Not at all representative of people I know.

His party is polling better than the Tories and Labour. You can’t just ignore that.
People calling him names and his followers stupid works about as well as it does in America with Trump.


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[Moulin Yarns]

The best way for any remainer in Scotland to vote is SNP.
Here is a handy map.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/50470a43a1c164364243f706c9bc567a.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This has been torn to shreds on twitter and the libdem is 3rd behind green in a number of areas.

[grunt]

Gone.

I always thought he was a complete bell-end, a view that has been reinforced through reading the obits.

Seems to have been made that way to some extent by having a complete **** of a father.
I'm struggling to see the connection to Brexit.

[lapsedhibee]

I'm struggling to see the connection to Brexit.

EU animal welfare rules.

[Mibbes Aye]

EU animal welfare rules.

Played.

[Colr]

The best way for any remainer in Scotland to vote is SNP.
Here is a handy map.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/50470a43a1c164364243f706c9bc567a.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting!

I like the slate of candidates that ChangeUK have put up in London but am concerned that LibDem might be a more effective way to affect pro-Remain MEPs.

Greens are probably OK for a seat or two on the south coast only.

[wpj]

His party is polling better than the Tories and Labour. You can’t just ignore that.
People calling him names and his followers stupid works about as well as it does in America with Trump.


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Ok, but why has he had so much airtime? He is an MEP not an elected mp here. Do you deny the QT audience has not moved to the right of centre?

[JeMeSouviens]

Ok, but why has he had so much airtime? He is an MEP not an elected mp here. Do you deny the QT audience has not moved to the right of centre?

The broadcast equivalent of clickbait. You’re talking about it on here, that’s the criterion the beeb are working to these days. Sad but true.

[Hiber-nation]

I saw the following tweet yesterday



I got a leaflet from the Brexit party in the post today. Addresed to me. Which is strange because I'm pretty sure I'm not on the public electoral roll. Curious where they got my name and address from...


It appears the Royal Mail (wonder why it hasn't been rebranded British Mail yet) will deliver election leaflets for any party that can afford a print run of around 2,800,000. The party don't have your address

Yep my wife and my colleague both got one as well. They are both SNP members which seems to be a coincidence...

[Fife-Hibee]

Do people honestly believe that the lib dems are pro remain? Surely they've learnt by now that the lib dems will jump onto any opportunitistic bandwagon for a slice of power?

[Moulin Yarns]

Do people honestly believe that the lib dems are pro remain? Surely they've learnt by now that the lib dems will jump onto any opportunitistic bandwagon for a slice of power?

Yes. Always been pro Europe

[Tornadoes70]

What does “Jeremy is playing the longer game” actually mean? Is there any substance to it or is it just rhetoric? Sounds more like Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burned than any master plan by Corbyn.

Brexit has shown none of the parties are up to the job.

The longer game for us has been seeking a General Election which has been the most obvious route plan with us not being a fringe party.

If you don't understand politics wouldn't you be better switching to some other pastime.

We have planners and policy makers who're extremely clever who research every outcome and a leader who has a bigger picture in mind.

Me, I'm just a lifelong Labour supporter believing in altering the course of UK politics for the betterment of all of us.

Small time nationalism just sickens me though, doesn't matter if its right or left its small time sickening.

Mon Labour!!!

[stoneyburn hibs]

The longer game for us has been seeking a General Election which has been the most obvious route plan with us not being a fringe party.

If you don't understand politics wouldn't you be better switching to some other pastime.

We have planners and policy makers who're extremely clever who research every outcome and a leader who has a bigger picture in mind.

Me, I'm just a lifelong Labour supporter believing in altering the course of UK politics for the betterment of all of us.

Small time nationalism just sickens me though, doesn't matter if its right or left its small time sickening.

Mon Labour!!!

Erm how long is this game to seek a general election?
After Brexit? That's a long game.
What's the bigger picture that JC has ?

No need to be rude to the poster you quoted

[Tornadoes70]

Erm how long is this game to seek a general election?
After Brexit? That's a long game.
What's the bigger picture that JC has ?

No need to be rude to the poster you quoted

Who knows whats behind the above post?

It though illustrates perfectly the wrongness with social media that allows those with absolutely no understanding of just about anything that could eventually allow those with no learning whatsoever to become in charge of those who have learned through education the follies of doing so.

Could the unlearned eventually overcome the learned?

It could indeed become the horrifying reality.

[Glory Lurker]

Who knows whats behind the above post?

It though illustrates perfectly the wrongness with social media that allows those with absolutely no understanding of just about anything that could eventually allow those with no learning whatsoever to become in charge of those who have learned through education the follies of doing so.

Could the unlearned eventually overcome the learned?

It could indeed become the horrifying reality.

Parklife!

[Tornadoes70]

Parklife!

Eh?

I didn't want to ask but hey ho.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Who knows whats behind the above post?

It though illustrates perfectly the wrongness with social media that allows those with absolutely no understanding of just about anything that could eventually allow those with no learning whatsoever to become in charge of those who have learned through education the follies of doing so.

Could the unlearned eventually overcome the learned?

It could indeed become the horrifying reality.

Answer the questions please.

[1875godsgift]

Who knows whats behind the above post?

It though illustrates perfectly the wrongness with social media that allows those with absolutely no understanding of just about anything that could eventually allow those with no learning whatsoever to become in charge of those who have learned through education the follies of doing so.

Could the unlearned eventually overcome the learned?

It could indeed become the horrifying reality.

:confused: I think I must be one of those with no learning whatsoever because I haven't got a Buchan clue what you're talking about?

Are you trying to say that only people with the same level of understanding as you should be allowed to use social media?

[Tornadoes70]

Answer the questions please.


If Nicola can't answer what her six tests are as to any Scottish currency are how on earth could an anti nationalist?

What were the six tests again? Or doesn't currency matter any more?

It certainly does to a nation that has to trade with other nations or don't you care about the Scots folk?

Mon Labour!!!

[Tornadoes70]

:confused: I think I must be one of those with no learning whatsoever because I haven't got a Buchan clue what you're talking about?

Are you trying to say that only people with the same level of understanding as you should be allowed to use social media?

No what I'm saying is that folk who're outwith certain expertise should refrain from pretending they know anything that they know nothing about.

I wouldn't want a non cancer expert telling me they know all about cancer when they literally know sod all about the condition.

That's whats wrong with social media.

[lapsedhibee]

No what I'm saying is that folk who're outwith certain expertise should refrain from pretending they know anything that they know nothing about.

I wouldn't want a non cancer expert telling me they know all about cancer when they literally know sod all about the condition.

That's whats wrong with social media.

So are you saying that only oncologists should be allowed smartphones?

[McD]

No what I'm saying is that folk who're outwith certain expertise should refrain from pretending they know anything that they know nothing about.

I wouldn't want a non cancer expert telling me they know all about cancer when they literally know sod all about the condition.

That's whats wrong with social media.


You don’t have to accept what a non cancer expert tells you though, and I doubt a cancer expert would be offering advice on that subject to you over social media.


It does come across that you’re suggesting anyone who is not a certified expert on a subject should be excluded from using social media. I very much doubt any of us on here are certifiable experts or professionals in the political world, should we shut down the thread?

[marinello59]

Parklife!

:faf:

[The Modfather]

Another classic night on the Holy Ground.

In order to meet the expertise criteria on all things politics I’ll be following the successful Tornadoes template going forward. I’ll start with the words “fringe party” (perhaps I could talk about Scottish Labour) and “nationalism” and work backwards to construct the rest of the post regardless of the context.

[Moulin Yarns]

Who knows whats behind the above post?

It though illustrates perfectly the wrongness with social media that allows those with absolutely no understanding of just about anything that could eventually allow those with no learning whatsoever to become in charge of those who have learned through education the follies of doing so.

Could the unlearned eventually overcome the learned?

It could indeed become the horrifying reality.

Head nailed on.


























Now, if only those that know nothing would refrain from posting.

Those that repeatedly ask the same questions, even after several others have posted reasoned and considered answers.

Those who repeatedly post the same drivel about a party or movement they themselves are not part of and are unwilling to enter debate with.

Those who troll other posters without understanding the irony when they themselves accuse others of trolling.


There are bound to be others :wink:

[Bangkok Hibby]

The longer game for us has been seeking a General Election which has been the most obvious route plan with us not being a fringe party.

If you don't understand politics wouldn't you be better switching to some other pastime.

We have planners and policy makers who're extremely clever who research every outcome and a leader who has a bigger picture in mind.

Me, I'm just a lifelong Labour supporter believing in altering the course of UK politics for the betterment of all of us.

Small time nationalism just sickens me though, doesn't matter if its right or left its small time sickening.

Mon Labour!!!


I thought I would be a lifelong Labour supporter too until I understood that nothing will ever change under the system we have. Lurching from left to right across the decades, across peoples lifetimes. All the while the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, housing becoming harder to access etc etc etc. I understand you're not a supporter of Independence but can you tell me why you think voting Labour this time will "alter the course of UK politics for the betterment of us all" What will Labour do "this time" that hasn't been done in the past? What will Labour do "this time" to stop the right wing media persuading the ever more right wing public in 5 years time, that Labour are forcing us into debt and we need a Tory government to sort out the mess? So then another Tory government and another 5 or 10 years of Labour saying "we need a fair Government for all"
Until we all ****ing die!!!

You maybe alluded earlier somewhere to me not living in the UK. Apologies if it wasn't you but I've worked here all my life, still pay UK tax and have children and grandchildren who will have to make a life in this mess. I have as much an opinion as anyone else albeit not a vote.
This isn't an attack on you or anyone else, just trying to understand why anyone of any (main UK) political persuasion still feels that things will change. Haven't you seen enough in your lifetime to suggest otherwise?

[Jack Hackett]

I thought I would be a lifelong Labour supporter too until I understood that nothing will ever change under the system we have. Lurching from left to right across the decades, across peoples lifetimes. All the while the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, housing becoming harder to access etc etc etc. I understand you're not a supporter of Independence but can you tell me why you think voting Labour this time will "alter the course of UK politics for the betterment of us all" What will Labour do "this time" that hasn't been done in the past? What will Labour do "this time" to stop the right wing media persuading the ever more right wing public in 5 years time, that Labour are forcing us into debt and we need a Tory government to sort out the mess? So then another Tory government and another 5 or 10 years of Labour saying "we need a fair Government for all"
Until we all ****ing die!!!

You maybe alluded earlier somewhere to me not living in the UK. Apologies if it wasn't you but I've worked here all my life, still pay UK tax and have children and grandchildren who will have to make a life in this mess. I have as much an opinion as anyone else albeit not a vote.
This isn't an attack on you or anyone else, just trying to understand why anyone of any (main UK) political persuasion still feels that things will change. Haven't you seen enough in your lifetime to suggest otherwise?

:top marks

With the rise and rise of social media, politics has become ever more fractured. 'One Size fits all' is a pipe dream and we're lurching from one extreme ideology to the next, barely stopping for breath. I don't have a clue what the solution is to the current and growing mess... I truly doubt that anyone has

[Mibbes Aye]

I thought I would be a lifelong Labour supporter too until I understood that nothing will ever change under the system we have. Lurching from left to right across the decades, across peoples lifetimes. All the while the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, housing becoming harder to access etc etc etc. I understand you're not a supporter of Independence but can you tell me why you think voting Labour this time will "alter the course of UK politics for the betterment of us all" What will Labour do "this time" that hasn't been done in the past? What will Labour do "this time" to stop the right wing media persuading the ever more right wing public in 5 years time, that Labour are forcing us into debt and we need a Tory government to sort out the mess? So then another Tory government and another 5 or 10 years of Labour saying "we need a fair Government for all"
Until we all ****ing die!!!

You maybe alluded earlier somewhere to me not living in the UK. Apologies if it wasn't you but I've worked here all my life, still pay UK tax and have children and grandchildren who will have to make a life in this mess. I have as much an opinion as anyone else albeit not a vote.
This isn't an attack on you or anyone else, just trying to understand why anyone of any (main UK) political persuasion still feels that things will change. Haven't you seen enough in your lifetime to suggest otherwise?

I know you weren’t addressing your post at me and I know that me and Tornadoes aren’t on the same page politically :greengrin

I think the history of Labour in government reflects the innate conservatism that voters in the U.K., yes Scotland too, hold. Lots of big steps, but done incrementally and not to scare the horses.

Labour had a chance to be truly radical in the post-war Attlee government and to an extent they did, but were still hamstrung. The creation of the NHS, whilst a marvellous thing, was only fulfilled through agreements with the BMA which preserved the rights of GPs to act as independent contractors. They are a powerful lobby and in hindsight we should have nationalised them but we lost the opportunity.

Wilson and Callaghan introduced no end of progressive legislation on race, sex, safety of the workforce and so on. And the Open University which opened up higher education to the masses.

Blair and Brown brought in the minimum wage, SureStart and huge steps in addressing child poverty and old age poverty.

Yet all their domestic social policy was carried out with an eye to the financial markets and not wanting to be seen as risky or too leftist. And every Labour PM has had to work within the constraints of some form of market pressure which risked making their policies sound too expensive or too ideological, when in fact they were just the barest attempts at redressing societal ills.

It is a tough one to call. I think that pragmatically, Attlee, Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown haven’t tried to change the game, they’ve tried to secure the best outcomes within the game. I am not sure if it isn’t possible to change the game. I understand why they worked within the system they found rather than expending energy and capital trying to overthrow it.

Which all makes for a telling point I guess. Labour has enjoyed electoral success when it has had leaders with Fabianist tendencies.

[Bangkok Hibby]

I know you weren’t addressing your post at me and I know that me and Tornadoes aren’t on the same page politically :greengrin

I think the history of Labour in government reflects the innate conservatism that voters in the U.K., yes Scotland too, hold. Lots of big steps, but done incrementally and not to scare the horses.

Labour had a chance to be truly radical in the post-war Attlee government and to an extent they did, but were still hamstrung. The creation of the NHS, whilst a marvellous thing, was only fulfilled through agreements with the BMA which preserved the rights of GPs to act as independent contractors. They are a powerful lobby and in hindsight we should have nationalised them but we lost the opportunity.

Wilson and Callaghan introduced no end of progressive legislation on race, sex, safety of the workforce and so on. And the Open University which opened up higher education to the masses.

Blair and Brown brought in the minimum wage, SureStart and huge steps in addressing child poverty and old age poverty.

Yet all their domestic social policy was carried out with an eye to the financial markets and not wanting to be seen as risky or too leftist. And every Labour PM has had to work within the constraints of some form of market pressure which risked making their policies sound too expensive or too ideological, when in fact they were just the barest attempts at redressing societal ills.

It is a tough one to call. I think that pragmatically, Attlee, Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown haven’t tried to change the game, they’ve tried to secure the best outcomes within the game. I am not sure if it isn’t possible to change the game. I understand why they worked within the system they found rather than expending energy and capital trying to overthrow it.

Which all makes for a telling point I guess. Labour has enjoyed electoral success when it has had leaders with Fabianist tendencies.


I agree with every word you say. Sad though that these hard won rights/benefits are being torn apart by the right and their ever growing support. I fear for the disenfranchised in this country and leaving the EU will give free reign to those who would happily see human and workers rights diminished. The really sad thing is I'm not just talking about a Tory government here, more and more "normal" people are joining the "I'm all right Jack, let the scroungers starve" brigade.
So, really my question remains, what will another term of Labour Governance do to permanently reverse this slide? Is Independence within Europe the answer for a completely fresh start?

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190511/269d7ef458b3050d2adaa7d6f1e59914.jpg
If a no deal brexit doesn’t happen then these figures will get worse for the Tories and if it does then they will be held responsible for the recession. Not a great place to be.
And for people in Scotland, in either scenario (a no deal brexit or a Farage run uk) independence within the Eu looks very attractive.


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[lapsedhibee]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190511/269d7ef458b3050d2adaa7d6f1e59914.jpg
If a no deal brexit doesn’t happen then these figures will get worse for the Tories and if it does then they will be held responsible for the recession. Not a great place to be.
And for people in Scotland, in either scenario (a no deal brexit or a Farage run uk) independence within the Eu looks very attractive.


FFS.
Nige could be prime minister before his party has any policies. That ever been tried before, have a vote and then start talking about what the vote was for? :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

FFS.
Nige could be prime minister before his party has any policies. That ever been tried before, have a vote and then start talking about what the vote was for? :dunno:

To be fair, Theresa May only has ‘brexit means brexit’.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190511/85cb927d90e8b110969cb0d8098e49ed.jpg



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[Ozyhibby]

Poll shows a potential Labour majority. SNP almost back to 2015 levels of dominance.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190511/2b5b7452819275bc86bb7c9820ff73d3.jpg


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[SHODAN]

Poll shows a potential Labour majority. SNP almost back to 2015 levels of dominance.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190511/2b5b7452819275bc86bb7c9820ff73d3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All this means is that we're getting a no deal brexit to stop the Tory party splitting.

[Ozyhibby]

All this means is that we're getting a no deal brexit to stop the Tory party splitting.

I don’t think they can get that through Parliament.


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[Tornadoes70]

I thought I would be a lifelong Labour supporter too until I understood that nothing will ever change under the system we have. Lurching from left to right across the decades, across peoples lifetimes. All the while the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, housing becoming harder to access etc etc etc. I understand you're not a supporter of Independence but can you tell me why you think voting Labour this time will "alter the course of UK politics for the betterment of us all" What will Labour do "this time" that hasn't been done in the past? What will Labour do "this time" to stop the right wing media persuading the ever more right wing public in 5 years time, that Labour are forcing us into debt and we need a Tory government to sort out the mess? So then another Tory government and another 5 or 10 years of Labour saying "we need a fair Government for all"
Until we all ****ing die!!!

You maybe alluded earlier somewhere to me not living in the UK. Apologies if it wasn't you but I've worked here all my life, still pay UK tax and have children and grandchildren who will have to make a life in this mess. I have as much an opinion as anyone else albeit not a vote.
This isn't an attack on you or anyone else, just trying to understand why anyone of any (main UK) political persuasion still feels that things will change. Haven't you seen enough in your lifetime to suggest otherwise?

Why on earth would you turn to a fringe nationalist party that would in the unlikely event of Scotland separating from the rest of our island neighbours unleash a currency that wasn't worth the paper it was written upon among many other poverty afflicting policies other than sentiment.

Labour always seeks to give a leg up to the poorest in society which is in total contrast to snptory cuts and misery.

For the many not the Few!!!

[The Modfather]

Why on earth would you turn to a fringe nationalist party that would in the unlikely event of Scotland separating from the rest of our island neighbours unleash a currency that wasn't worth the paper it was written upon among many other poverty afflicting policies other than sentiment.

Labour always seeks to give a leg up to the poorest in society which is in total contrast to snptory cuts and misery.

For the many not the Few!!!

You do realise if Scottish Labour got their act together in an independent Scotland they could be the ones in power.

[Tornadoes70]

You do realise if Scottish Labour got their act together in an independent Scotland they could be the ones in power.

And take the blame for leading Scotland into the bigger sphere wilderness and for the poverty that would certainly spread across all areas of a set adrift from the rest of the what once was the UK. No thanks.

Labour is a UK wide party that seeks to give a leg up to those in hardship not to set them further adrift.

I do though appreciate your softening towards our good folk ethos. Join us in fighting for social justice etc across the UK not to set us further apart from?

Mon the good folk!!!

[Ozyhibby]

And take the blame for leading Scotland into the bigger sphere wilderness and for the poverty that would certainly spread across all areas of a set adrift from the rest of the what once was the UK. No thanks.

Labour is a UK wide party that seeks to give a leg up to those in hardship not to set them further adrift.

I do though appreciate your softening towards our good folk ethos. Join us in fighting for social justice etc across the UK not to set us further apart from?

Mon the good folk!!!

That’s what undermines the better together case. Why would we be poverty stricken with independence? Ireland is richer than Scotland and they are independent. Why must Scotland automatically be poorer? We are poorer now inside the union.


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[Tornadoes70]

That’s what undermines the better together case. Why would we be poverty stricken with independence? Ireland is richer than Scotland and they are independent. Why must Scotland automatically be poorer? We are poorer now inside the union.


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if you could tell me and the rest of the Scottish folk exactly what currency we'd be using post separatism and how much it would be worth abroad I'd be very grateful. It matters because every country has to trade and if the currency is not worth much then its folk suffer in many different ways including exports imports travelling etc.

Not only would our new Scottish currency be worth next to nothing we'd have set our face against our nearest island neighbours but hey don't let reality get in the way of fantasy.

The Scots folk deserve so much better than the fantasy snptory cuts that would decimate our public services if they ever got their way.

[Fife-Hibee]

As i've said on here before (probably quite a few times). If no deal isn't delivered, the tories will face a UKIP/Brexit backlash. If it is delivered, they will face a corporate backlash.

Neither outcome will ultimately be good where Scotland is concerned. Time to go and not look back.

[Fife-Hibee]

if you could tell me and the rest of the Scottish folk exactly what currency we'd be using post separatism and how much it would be worth abroad I'd be very grateful. It matters because every country has to trade and if the currency is not worth much then its folk suffer in many different ways including exports imports travelling etc.

Not only would our new Scottish currency be worth next to nothing we'd have set our face against our nearest island neighbours but hey don't let reality get in the way of fantasy.

The Scots folk deserve so much better than the fantasy snptory cuts that would decimate our public services if they ever got their way.

You know full well you're asking questions that can't possibly have absolute answers. Nobody can state exactly what any currency would be worth, because economies constantly change. Can you tell us exactly how much the "Great British Pound" is going to be worth in a couple of years? No you can't.

So how is it fair to expect us to have answers to questions that the UK itself can't possibly have answers for either? It's ridiculous and pathetic. If that's the best "Better Together" can come up with, they're done for.

[Tornadoes70]

You know full well you're asking questions that can't possibly have absolute answers. Nobody can state exactly what any currency would be worth, because economies constantly change. Can you tell us exactly how much the "Great British Pound" is going to be worth in a couple of years? No you can't.

So how is it fair to expect us to have answers to questions that the UK itself can't possibly have answers for either? It's ridiculous and pathetic. If that's the best "Better Together" can come up with, they're done for.

I'm certain most of us would agree that the GB pound is a stable currency that is valued around the world. It allows us to buy and sell goods and produce from all parts of the globe. It also allows us to trade our GB pound for fair exchange for other currencies when we go on holiday or travel.

Can't you even hazard a guess at what the new Scottish stand alone currency would be worth whatever name it might be called etc or are you attempting to play the pied piper and merely deceive Scots into separatism by refusing to give them answers to what the realities would be to the separatist brigadoon?

The Scots deserve much better than the bald fantasy of what the likes of you are trying to fool them into.

Mon Labour!!!

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm certain most of us would agree that the GB pound is a stable currency that is valued around the world. It allows us to buy and sell goods and produce from all parts of the globe. It also allows us to trade our GB pound for fair exchange for other currencies when we go on holiday or travel.

Can't you even hazard a guess at what the new Scottish stand alone currency would be worth whatever name it might be called etc or are you attempting to play the pied piper and merely deceive Scots into separatism by refusing to give them answers to what the realities would be to the separatist brigadoon?

The Scots deserve much better than the bald fantasy of what the likes of you are trying to fool them into.

Mon Labour!!!

The sentimental value of a currency world wide is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is it's exchange value. Can you tell us what the exchange value of GBP is going to be a couple of years from now? If it's so "stable", then you should have no problem answering that.

What sort of answer are you expecting from me? Do you want me to try and guess what the exchange value of a currency that doesn't exist yet is going to be worth in X amount of months/years time?

[Tornadoes70]

The sentimental value of a currency world wide is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is it's exchange value. Can you tell us what the exchange value of GBP is going to be a couple of years from now? If it's so "stable", then you should have no problem answering that.

What sort of answer are you expecting from me? Do you want me to try and guess what the exchange value of a currency that doesn't exist yet is going to be worth in X amount of months/years time?

I suspect most of us already suspect the GB pound will be worth around the same as it is and has been for a large number of years now and the GB economy is fairly motoring along despite tory infighting and crisis. Goodness knows how much more it would improve with a Labour government in charge.

what would a stand alone who knows what name Scottish currency be worth both at home and abroad?

Its a question for the separatists to answer as they're the ones who seek to separate us Scots from the UK of which most of us were born into.

It will matter to all of us whether rich or poor as currency actually matters.

Do you get out of Fife much Plato?

[Fife-Hibee]

I suspect most of us already suspect the GB pound will be worth around the same as it is and has been for a large number of years now and the GB economy is fairly motoring along despite tory infighting and crisis. Goodness knows how much more it would improve with a Labour government in charge.

what would a stand alone who knows what name Scottish currency be worth both at home and abroad?

Its a question for the separatists to answer as they're the ones who seek to separate us Scots from the UK of which most of us were born into.

It will matter to all of us whether rich or poor as currency actually matters.

Do you get out of Fife much Plato?

Suspicion is a dangerous thing when it comes to economics. Most people suspected that 2008 would sail along quite nicely until the crash happened. Suspecting that it will be worth around the same in a couple of years as it is now isn't a convincing argument. Just admit that you don't actually know how much it will be worth in a couple of years and that your suspicions count for absolutely nothing.

I will repeat it once again as it seems to have gone beyond you, again. You're demanding an absolute answer to a question that is too volatile for any country (established currency or not) to answer.

Nobody know's what the value of currency x, y or z will be in a couple of years from now. So it's not a reasonable question to pursue. If this is the best "Better Together" can muster, I can tell you right now that it's not going to work.

[Ozyhibby]

Good thing about these recent polls is that if a general election is called, Boris Johnson would lose his seat.
The only way to halt the Brexit party is to go for no deal but it’s impossible in this parliament.


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[James310]

Suspicion is a dangerous thing when it comes to economics. Most people suspected that 2008 would sail along quite nicely until the crash happened. Suspecting that it will be worth around the same in a couple of years as it is now isn't a convincing argument. Just admit that you don't actually know how much it will be worth in a couple of years and that your suspicions count for absolutely nothing.

I will repeat it once again as it seems to have gone beyond you, again. You're demanding an absolute answer to a question that is too volatile for any country (established currency or not) to answer.

Nobody know's what the value of currency x, y or z will be in a couple of years from now. So it's not a reasonable question to pursue. If this is the best "Better Together" can muster, I can tell you right now that it's not going to work.

Your average punter on the street today could not really care less what the £ is worth against other currencies, other than a few trips abroad a year they don't really have to think about it. I dont wake up every day wondering what the exchange rate is.

All that changes though if we have a new Scottish Currency and we still have to pay mortgages or other bills in £ sterling. Or we have our pension still valued in £ sterling because all the funds it invest in are priced in £ sterling. Then we need to think about changing money between currencies on a regular basis and are at the risk of exchange rates.

So it's not really a massive concern for the man or women on the street today, but it will become a significant issue. Yes nobody knows the future value, but it's introducing a level of risk we have never had to consider before.

[Ozyhibby]

Your average punter on the street today could not really care less what the £ is worth against other currencies, other than a few trips abroad a year they don't really have to think about it. I dont wake up every day wondering what the exchange rate is.

All that changes though if we have a new Scottish Currency and we still have to pay mortgages or other bills in £ sterling. Or we have our pension still valued in £ sterling because all the funds it invest in are priced in £ sterling. Then we need to think about changing money between currencies on a regular basis and are at the risk of exchange rates.

So it's not really a massive concern for the man or women on the street today, but it will become a significant issue.

The new currency will be pegged for some time to allow mortgages to be changed to the new currency. This has been said to you before but you continue with the scare stories.


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[James310]

The new currency will be pegged for some time to allow mortgages to be changed to the new currency. This has been said to you before but you continue with the scare stories.


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And you have this proof that the lenders will allow all their contracts to be changed? Can you show me proof of just one lender that says this will happen?

Or is that an assumption you are making?

The reserves of £ sterling will come from?

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm certain most of us would agree that the GB pound is a stable currency that is valued around the world. It allows us to buy and sell goods and produce from all parts of the globe. It also allows us to trade our GB pound for fair exchange for other currencies when we go on holiday or travel.

Can't you even hazard a guess at what the new Scottish stand alone currency would be worth whatever name it might be called etc or are you attempting to play the pied piper and merely deceive Scots into separatism by refusing to give them answers to what the realities would be to the separatist brigadoon?

The Scots deserve much better than the bald fantasy of what the likes of you are trying to fool them into.

Mon Labour!!!

The GBP has lost it's value by around 50% compared to the equivalent currency used in Germany since I first arrived here back in 1984. I used to get a little more than 4 German Mark for each pound back then what would have got me around €2 when that was introduced. Now it's almost 1 for 1 and things aren't gonna get better after Brexit.

[James310]

The GBP has lost it's value by around 50% compared to the equivalent currency used in Germany since I first arrived here back in 1984. I used to get a little more than 4 German Mark for each pound back then what would have got me around €2 when that was introduced. Now it's almost 1 for 1 and things aren't gonna get better after Brexit.

Why on earth would an Independent Scotland want to be pegged to a currency with such a bad outlook then?

[Ozyhibby]

And you have this proof that the lenders will allow all their contracts to be changed? Can you show me proof of just one lender that says this will happen?

Or is that an assumption you are making?

The reserves of £ sterling will come from?

From the Bank of England reserves. We own 10% of this.
If a new European currency is set up then every financial institution will want to hold it in their basket of assets. There will be lots of institutions willing to make money by supplying financial services to Scots. To think there wouldn’t be would be idiotic. You not that are you?


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[Moulin Yarns]

I've wandered into the twilight zone. Or I have just experienced deja-vu. Perhaps I went back to future. I don't know which but there's a couple of people saying a lot of stuff they have said before, despite being given reasonable answers before they persist with the same negative attitude instead of providing a clear case for their own opinion.

[James310]

I've wandered into the twilight zone. Or I have just experienced deja-vu. Perhaps I went back to future. I don't know which but there's a couple of people saying a lot of stuff they have said before, despite being given reasonable answers before they persist with the same negative attitude instead of providing a clear case for their own opinion.

I know some people will never learn.

But 'reasonable' answers, assumptions or educated guess work is not really cutting it.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Why on earth would you turn to a fringe nationalist party that would in the unlikely event of Scotland separating from the rest of our island neighbours unleash a currency that wasn't worth the paper it was written upon among many other poverty afflicting policies other than sentiment.

Labour always seeks to give a leg up to the poorest in society which is in total contrast to snptory cuts and misery.

For the many not the Few!!!

I asked you why voting Labour would change things long term. This is your answer.....Labour always seeks to give a leg up to the poorest in society it's no answer is it? The rest of your post is attacking the SNP which at no point in my question did I suggest was the answer to our current ills. I genuinely am interested in your firm belief that continuously voting into Government Labour, between spells of Tory administrations will change the way the country is heading. I gave you a chance there to let us all know how Labour would change things and you've blown it again with your whataboutery and attacks on the SNP...I'm out!

[James310]

From the Bank of England reserves. We own 10% of this.
If a new European currency is set up then every financial institution will want to hold it in their basket of assets. There will be lots of institutions willing to make money by supplying financial services to Scots. To think there wouldn’t be would be idiotic. You not that are you?


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Did you not say we would not take on UK debt? (apologies if not you) So we would take assets from the UK but not any of the debt? I can really see that working with the rest of the UK! What's 10% of the debt? A lot more than the assets of the BoE.

Let's have a more practical example, you 57 and have a pension pot built up over the years and it's valued in £ sterling and your invested across a range of funds all priced daily in £ sterling. You decide on flexible drawdown so you take an income every month. Do you believe that all the fund mangers will keep their funds pricing in £ sterling? That UK Growth Fund worth £1BN or the Balanced Fund is going to move to price in a Scottish Currency even although 85% of its customers are based outside Scotland? That won't happen. It will never happen. You will need to convert money every month to pay yourself that income and are therfore at the mercy of the exchange rate and the risks it brings.

[Moulin Yarns]

Did you not say we would not take on UK debt? (apologies if not you) So we would take assets from the UK but not not any of the debt? I can really see that working with the rest of the UK! What's 10% of the debt? A lot more than the assets of the BoE.

Let's have a more practical example, you 57 and have a pension pot built up over the years and it's valued in £ sterling and your invested across a range of funds all priced in £ sterling. You decide on flexible drawdown so you take an income every month. Do you believe that all the fund mangers will keep their funds pricing in £ sterling? That UK Growth Fund worth £1BN is going to move to price in a Scottish Currency even although 85% of its customers are based outside Scotland? That won't happen. It will never happen. You will need to convert money every month to pay yourself that income and are therfore at the mercy of the exchange rate and the risks it brings.

Again you repeat the same thing.


Banks will take money in whatever currency the pension is paid in, and you can withdraw money in the local currency wherever in the world you are. You do realise this already works in the real world. Think about all the expat brits in the Costa del sol, their pension is paid in sterling but they withdraw from the bank in euros.

[Hibrandenburg]

Why on earth would an Independent Scotland want to be pegged to a currency with such a bad outlook then?

We're pegged to it now. GBP wouldn't be my choice of currency, if we gain independence and join the EU then imo it should be a case of "in for a cent then in for a Euro".

[James310]

Again you repeat the same thing.


Banks will take money in whatever currency the pension is paid in, and you can withdraw money in the local currency wherever in the world you are. You do realise this already works in the real world. Think about all the expat brits in the Costa del sol, their pension is paid in sterling but they withdraw from the bank in euros.

😂 Yes your right, so you proved my point that every month you are required to exchange currency A to currency B and your income will change month to month depending on the exchange rate. Now imagine the new Scottish Currency, a brand new currency with no track record..it quickly depreciates against the £ and your pension income just fell. I don't know how many expats are in Spain, but anyone with a private pension will be doing the same every month.

It's a risk, you don't know what your pension income will be month to month.

[Moulin Yarns]

I know some people will never learn.

But 'reasonable' answers, assumptions or educated guess work is not really cutting it.

Looks like a 'reasonable answer' has quietened the dissenting voices for just now. I'm off to do my monthly shopping, I hope I don't come back to find more ramblings of the demented minds 😉

[Just Alf]

if you could tell me and the rest of the Scottish folk exactly what currency we'd be using post separatism and how much it would be worth abroad I'd be very grateful. It matters because every country has to trade and if the currency is not worth much then its folk suffer in many different ways including exports imports travelling etc.

Not only would our new Scottish currency be worth next to nothing we'd have set our face against our nearest island neighbours but hey don't let reality get in the way of fantasy.

The Scots folk deserve so much better than the fantasy snptory cuts that would decimate our public services if they ever got their way.I'm starting to think you're a Tory Troll with the way you post about one thing no matter the thread title.

I will respond though and say that many other countries have introduced their own curriencies, all successfully to greater or lesser degrees. The old Soviet Eastern Block ones were all in a starting point much worse than an iScotland would be, Estonia for example underpinned their currency using government owned forests.

Some even have a GDP better than the UK nowadays and 100% of them trade internationally and have international banks with a precence and trading in the local currency.

Please, please prove me wrong in my 1st sentence. You have a quite strong view that an iScotland would be the only country in history not able to operate with a new currency, what information or data makes you think that?

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[Moulin Yarns]

😂 Yes your right, so you proved my point that every month you are required to exchange currency A to currency B and your income will change month to month depending on the exchange rate. Now imagine the new Scottish Currency, a brand new currency with no track record..it quickly depreciates against the £ and your pension income just fell. I don't know how many expats are in Spain, but anyone with a private pension will be doing the same every month.

It's a risk, you don't know what your pension income will be month to month.

OH FFS ignore the las post I was wrong, the demented minds are alive and well. I'm going to do the shopping. See you later

[Ozyhibby]

Did you not say we would not take on UK debt? (apologies if not you) So we would take assets from the UK but not any of the debt? I can really see that working with the rest of the UK! What's 10% of the debt? A lot more than the assets of the BoE.

Let's have a more practical example, you 57 and have a pension pot built up over the years and it's valued in £ sterling and your invested across a range of funds all priced daily in £ sterling. You decide on flexible drawdown so you take an income every month. Do you believe that all the fund mangers will keep their funds pricing in £ sterling? That UK Growth Fund worth £1BN or the Balanced Fund is going to move to price in a Scottish Currency even although 85% of its customers are based outside Scotland? That won't happen. It will never happen. You will need to convert money every month to pay yourself that income and are therfore at the mercy of the exchange rate and the risks it brings.

Of course we will take on uk debt and assets. And the UK’s assets are a lot more than the Bank of England reserves.
Haven’t you been arguing that the Scottish currency will devalue? Won’t that be great getting your pension in sterling every month?


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[CapitalGreen]

Did you not say we would not take on UK debt? (apologies if not you) So we would take assets from the UK but not any of the debt? I can really see that working with the rest of the UK! What's 10% of the debt? A lot more than the assets of the BoE.

Let's have a more practical example, you 57 and have a pension pot built up over the years and it's valued in £ sterling and your invested across a range of funds all priced daily in £ sterling. You decide on flexible drawdown so you take an income every month. Do you believe that all the fund mangers will keep their funds pricing in £ sterling? That UK Growth Fund worth £1BN or the Balanced Fund is going to move to price in a Scottish Currency even although 85% of its customers are based outside Scotland? That won't happen. It will never happen. You will need to convert money every month to pay yourself that income and are therfore at the mercy of the exchange rate and the risks it brings.

You do realise fund managers already offer shareclasses in a range of different currencies, both hedged and unhedged depending on an investors tolerance to currency exposure? If 15% of their customers (your example) are based in Scotland using a Scottish currency, do you think they would be averse to launching a Scottish currency shareclass?

[Hibrandenburg]

Farage making a complete cock of himself on the Andrew Marr show now. Being asked why the Brexit Party don't have a manifesto with policies and his answer is that "the word manifesto has become a bad one". What an utter cock. :faf:

[Colr]

Poll shows a potential Labour majority. SNP almost back to 2015 levels of dominance.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190511/2b5b7452819275bc86bb7c9820ff73d3.jpg


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I’m not at all convinced with their projections that Labour will do well in London.

Their pro-Brexit and anti-Semitic stance is hitting them hard here.

[The Modfather]

Farage making a complete cock of himself on the Andrew Marr show now. Being asked why the Brexit Party don't have a manifesto with policies and his answer is that "the word manifesto has become a bad one". What an utter cock. :faf:

You don’t need manifestos and policies when “Brexit means Brexit” and you can make up what you want on the side of a bus.

[James310]

You do realise fund managers already offer shareclasses in a range of different currencies, both hedged and unhedged depending on an investors tolerance to currency exposure? If 15% of their customers (your example) are based in Scotland using a Scottish currency, do you think they would be averse to launching a Scottish currency shareclass?

It can be done, it would never of course guarantee no exchange rate risk and it would of course cost more. Also potentially does it makes it a 'complex' instrument meaning a new set of regulations and appropriateness etc?

I would imagine it would not be worth the effort for the number of underlying investors, but yes it could be done but at an increased cost to the underlying customer and would never fully eliminate that risk.

[Moulin Yarns]

😂 Yes your right, so you proved my point that every month you are required to exchange currency A to currency B and your income will change month to month depending on the exchange rate. Now imagine the new Scottish Currency, a brand new currency with no track record..it quickly depreciates against the £ and your pension income just fell. I don't know how many expats are in Spain, but anyone with a private pension will be doing the same every month.

It's a risk, you don't know what your pension income will be month to month.

I have provided no proof that you have to exchange currencies, you, on the other hand have proved that you don't have the faintest idea how international banking works.

[James310]

I have provided no proof that you have to exchange currencies, you, on the other hand have proved that you don't have the faintest idea how international banking works.

Eh? So you get paid in sterling and withdraw in Euro, that's what you said. How do you go from sterling to Euro without some kind of currency exchange?

It's laughable you accusing me of not knowing the banking system when you are clearly clueless.

[James310]

This is an option on an expat site.

'Take a secure, regular income for life through an 'annuity'.
UK pension payments are usually paid in sterling, so retirees living in Europe could find that conversion fees and variable exchange rates reduce the value of pension income.'

[Moulin Yarns]

Eh? So you get paid in sterling and withdraw in Euro, that's what you said. How do you go from sterling to Euro without some kind of currency exchange?

OK, I'll take it in nice easy steps for you.

You reach pension age
You nominate a bank where you're pension will be paid into, this can be anywhere in the world.
The DWP transfer your pension every month
The cash is then available to you at the bank of your choice.
You withdraw money in the local currency.

At no point have you had to take the money in sterling and go through a currency exchange, which is what you have been saying for weeks now.

[James310]

OK, I'll take it in nice easy steps for you.

You reach pension age
You nominate a bank where you're pension will be paid into, this can be anywhere in the world.
The DWP transfer your pension every month
The cash is then available to you at the bank of your choice.
You withdraw money in the local currency.

At no point have you had to take the money in sterling and go through a currency exchange, which is what you have been saying for weeks now.

Are you serious?

What about private pensions?

A classic example of why we can't trust nationalists with our money.

[James310]

I await your apology.

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad

'You’ll be paid in local currency - the amount you get may change due to exchange rates'

[Moulin Yarns]

I await your apology.

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad

'You’ll be paid in local currency - the amount you get may change due to exchange rates'


Let me spell it out for you.


All through this thread you indicated that you would need to take the cash and exchange it for the local currency. At each point I have indicated that you will be paid in sterling and withdraw in the local currency. The currency exchange happens in the background and you don't have to be involved.

I can't see how that has contributed to your confusion, but hey, some folks have it and others just have to lump it.

[James310]

Let me spell it out for you.


All through this thread you indicated that you would need to take the cash and exchange it for the local currency. At each point I have indicated that you will be paid in sterling and withdraw in the local currency. The currency exchange happens in the background and you don't have to be involved.

I can't see how that has contributed to your confusion, but hey, some folks have it and others just have to lump it.

No I never, I was very clear it would need converted at some point from one currency to another. So you admit there is an exchange from A to B at a point in time, therefore there is an exchange rate risk? That was the point I was making and we have proved. Thank you.

[Moulin Yarns]

😂 Yes your right, so you proved my point that every month you are required to exchange currency A to currency B and your income will change month to month depending on the exchange rate. Now imagine the new Scottish Currency, a brand new currency with no track record..it quickly depreciates against the £ and your pension income just fell. I don't know how many expats are in Spain, but anyone with a private pension will be doing the same every month.

It's a risk, you don't know what your pension income will be month to month.

I rest my case m'lud, the accused admits that you are required to exchange currency A to Currency B. At no point does the accused suggest that this is anything other than a cash transaction.

[James310]

I rest my case m'lud, the accused admits that you are required to exchange currency A to Currency B. At no point does the accused suggest that this is anything other than a cash transaction.

What's a cash transaction, what does that mean in this context? We can keep going at this if you want. But I think I have proved my point conclusively.

Actually don't bother answering. I have proved my point.

[Moulin Yarns]

What's a cash transaction, what does that mean in this context? We can keep going at this if you want. But I think I have proved my point conclusively.

Actually don't bother answering. I have proved my point.

Have you? What is your point? Do you have a point? Is there a point to you?

[Bangkok Hibby]

The GBP has lost it's value by around 50% compared to the equivalent currency used in Germany since I first arrived here back in 1984. I used to get a little more than 4 German Mark for each pound back then what would have got me around €2 when that was introduced. Now it's almost 1 for 1 and things aren't gonna get better after Brexit.

I live in Thailand but get paid in GBP. Almost every month I effectively take a pay cut because of the weakness of the pound. The exchange rate matters a great deal to many people despite what was said earlier about most people not caring. It's a ****ed currency in a ****ed country.

[Smartie]

The pound argument was a valid one at the last election.

As the UK goes from our already weak position to jump off the economic cliff edge that is Brexit, it beggars belief that people still view the omnishambles that is the UK as some sort of safety net.

There are problems with every currency option for an independent Scotland, I get that. There will be hurdles to be overcome along the way. I would imagine that anyone approaching retirement age would have grave reservations about such uncertainties right now, as might those who are already retired.

The majority of us have time on our side to save, work, buy, sell, do whatever it takes to make a success of independence if we so wish. Those of us who have time on our side should take it, and take a bit of responsibility for those who do not.

The details regarding stuff like currency are less important. Those who want to tie us in knots with stalemate arguments actually run the risk of pissing off the people they wish to convince (see project fear, Brexit edition).

Scotland needs to remain within the EU as nation independent of the UK. The rest of the UK can be left in peace to carry out however much self-harm they wish.

[Fife-Hibee]

Let me just be the first to say that i'm delighted that those racist brexit postal voting (we're honestly not foreigners) ex-pats are losing money due to a weaker pound. Long may it continue. :agree:

[Ozyhibby]

The pound argument was a valid one at the last election.

As the UK goes from our already weak position to jump off the economic cliff edge that is Brexit, it beggars belief that people still view the omnishambles that is the UK as some sort of safety net.

There are problems with every currency option for an independent Scotland, I get that. There will be hurdles to be overcome along the way. I would imagine that anyone approaching retirement age would have grave reservations about such uncertainties right now, as might those who are already retired.

The majority of us have time on our side to save, work, buy, sell, do whatever it takes to make a success of independence if we so wish. Those of us who have time on our side should take it, and take a bit of responsibility for those who do not.

The details regarding stuff like currency are less important. Those who want to tie us in knots with stalemate arguments actually run the risk of pissing off the people they wish to convince (see project fear, Brexit edition).

Scotland needs to remain within the EU as nation independent of the UK. The rest of the UK can be left in peace to carry out however much self-harm they wish.

Anyone with a pension in sterling should be entitled to take it in sterling if they wish. That’s why the govt will peg the new currency.
I personally think it won’t be in the interests of the rUK for us to leave Sterling and we will end up keeping Sterling in the medium term. They will never say that in the campaign though so we need to re assure people that the new currency will be stable. There is nothing inherently unstable about the Scottish economy to suggest it won’t be.


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[Bangkok Hibby]

Let me just be the first to say that i'm delighted that those racist brexit postal voting (we're honestly not foreigners) ex-pats are losing money due to a weaker pound. Long may it continue. :agree:


Strange post indeed! Which ex pats? Racist? Explain. Who is postal voting?

I have worked here and paid UK tax and NI for 47 years. I live abroad. I'm not a racist. I don't support Brexit. I don't postal vote. The weak pound is hurting me. Does that delight you?

[Fife-Hibee]

Strange post indeed! Which ex pats? Racist? Explain. Who is postal voting?

I have worked here and paid UK tax and NI for 47 years. I live abroad. I'm not a racist. I don't support Brexit. I don't postal vote. The weak pound is hurting me. Does that delight you?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9FggJE1HjY

[Bangkok Hibby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9FggJE1HjY

Thanks for that...so, is it only the people in the video who's predicament delights you? Those Brits who live in British communities in Spain? You are aware there are ex pats all over the world?
I'm Married to a Thai, mix with Thai people, try not to involve myself too much with the ex pat crowd and speak Thai. All the while continuing to work in the UK for a UK company and pay UK taxes as I've already said. Once more, are you delighted the weak pound is hurting people like myself?

[Fife-Hibee]

Thanks for that...so, is it only the people in the video who's predicament delights you? Those Brits who live in British communities in Spain? You are aware there are ex pats all over the world?
I'm Married to a Thai, mix with Thai people, try not to involve myself too much with the ex pat crowd and speak Thai. All the while continuing to work in the UK for a UK company and pay UK taxes as I've already said. Once more, are you delighted the weak pound is hurting people like myself?

Did you even read my post?

It quite clearly said "i'm delighted that those racist brexit postal voting (we're honestly not foreigners) ex-pats are losing money due to a weaker pound."

Are you racist? Did you vote for brexit? Do you refuse to accept that you're a foreigner in another country?

If your answer is NO to all three of these things. Then how could my post possibly be aimed at you?

[Bangkok Hibby]

Did you even read my post?

It quite clearly said "i'm delighted that those racist brexit postal voting (we're honestly not foreigners) ex-pats are losing money due to a weaker pound."

Are you racist? Did you vote for brexit? Do you refuse to accept that you're a foreigner in another country?

If your answer is NO to all three of these things. Then how could my post possibly be aimed at you?



Thanks for the clarification. It was unclear (to me at least) if you were classing ALL ex pats in that light

[Fife-Hibee]

Thanks for the clarification. It was unclear (to me at least) if you were classing ALL ex pats in that light

Absolutely not. Although i've never liked the term "expat". If you're living in another country, you're a foreigner in that country.

It's the "i'm too white to be a foreigner in another country" types that really irk me. Even although Brexit is unfortunate for those who are not like this, I genuinely hope it hurts those who are.