Brexit - what will happen next

[SHODAN]

Common Market 2.0 getting backing from SNP. If they can get Labour on board and possibly the DUP then it should have the votes.


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That would be great. DUP will be fine with it too because it means no difference to NIs existing relationship with the UK.

Only problem is if it's a straight choice between that and May's deal, the ERG may well swing over.

[Tornadoes70]

That would be great. DUP will be fine with it too because it means no difference to NIs existing relationship with the UK.

Only problem is if it's a straight choice between that and May's deal, the ERG may well swing over.

DUP, SNP, May, ERG?

Have I entered the twilight zone or are the nationalists willing to do a deal with El Diablo himself for bald agenda.

Mon the good folk!!!

Labour.

[lapsedhibee]

Nationalist parties like the DUP
That's clever, being a nationalist and unionist party at the same time. Even cleverer than Jeremy being simultaneously for and against everything and nothing at all.

[Moulin Yarns]

Why on earth would a UK wide Labour party wish to side with these two mad nationalist fringe parties. We'll probably lose a few voters because of brexit as it is never mind those we'd lose teaming up with these two sideshow bandwagons.

Great to see brexit hasn't seen a rise in bald nationalism though indeed the snp appear to have lost support according to their leaked polling and have lately seen arguments breaking out among their hierarchy.

Mon Labour!!!

The bald nationalism shown to MPs by the Leave mob yesterday outside Westminster yesterday. Fud!

[ronaldo7]

Common Market 2.0 getting backing from SNP. If they can get Labour on board and possibly the DUP then it should have the votes.


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That'll be the compromise the SNP have been asking for for a couple of years now.

John the tory, and Ingsh70 will have to console themselves, and book a room, to have a party on their own.

[ronaldo7]

I think your example is nonsense and nothing like a similar scenario. If by voting A you can stop B, then don't act surprised if B happens and you never voted for A.

But at least you can see what I said was factually correct.

I do wonder if we leave with no deal and you ask Blackford et al if they had wished they had voted for the CU and not abstained what their reply will be.

All the while, Theresa was saying the votes were only indicative, and the executive didn't need to accept them.

This cluster ****, is on the Tories, and no amount of spinning by, you, John, Jen, or, jakey will make it stick

Tory *******s.

[ronaldo7]

DUP, SNP, May, ERG?

Have I entered the twilight zone or are the nationalists willing to do a deal with El Diablo himself for bald agenda.

Mon the good folk!!!

Labour.

You forgot the Labour MP's who actually voted with the Tories, and May's deal.

[ronaldo7]

Anyone just see the Orange band marching past the Commons as part of the pro-Brexit rally on the news? Big day out from Larkhall.

Livingston true blues. Billy Mitchell(orange jacket man) from bbc qt fame.

A Musselburgh mob were there too, according to JMS

[hibsbollah]

You forgot the Labour MP's who actually voted with the Tories, and May's deal.

After weeks of cajoling and actual bribery, Rosie Cooper and Jim Fitzpatrick were the only two Labour rebels to join the existing three. That's only 5 out of 229 Labour MPs. It's been an amazing show of discipline against the deal, considering the majority of them represent Leave voting constituencies.

[Moulin Yarns]

After weeks of cajoling and actual bribery, Rosie Cooper and Jim Fitzpatrick were the only two Labour rebels to join the existing three. That's only 5 out of 229 Labour MPs. It's been an amazing show of discipline against the deal, considering the majority of them represent Leave voting constituencies.

So not representing their constituencies. Nice.

[ronaldo7]

After weeks of cajoling and actual bribery, Rosie Cooper and Jim Fitzpatrick were the only two Labour rebels to join the existing three. That's only 5 out of 229 Labour MPs. It's been an amazing show of discipline against the deal, considering the majority of them represent Leave voting constituencies.

I get that an extreme amount of pressure was put on by the whips, to keep them in line, and they did a decent job.

Just keeping Ingsh on the straight and narrow.

[Ozyhibby]

Dominic Grieve has just been deselected by his local party. The campaign was led by a former UKIP candidate.
As the tories move to the right the path is being left wide open for Change UK.


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[GlesgaeHibby]

Dominic Grieve has just been deselected by his local party. The campaign was led by a former UKIP candidate.
As the tories move to the right the path is being left wide open for Change UK.


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Tories in real danger of splitting here. CCHQ could step in here and slap down the UKIP supporters that have deselected Grieve, and if they don't then it's going to be difficult for remain supporting Tories to remain with the party.

[Hibbyradge]

dismiss to their lodge brothers in a derogatory manner.




You don't understand irony, do you? What a hypocrite.

[SHODAN]

Could Norway Plus beat May's deal in a head to head?

[Ozyhibby]

Could Norway Plus beat May's deal in a head to head?

Probably. There are enough remain tories to see it over the line.
36 tories voted for it on Thursday. You could probably add in a few cabinet members who had to abstain.
It’s leaving the EU but protecting the economy. Politically it’s rubbish because it’s undemocratic but I can see it getting through.

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[Newry Hibs]

Dominic Grieve has just been deselected by his local party. The campaign was led by a former UKIP candidate.
As the tories move to the right the path is being left wide open for Change UK.


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Didn't be want a people's vote!!!

[Ozyhibby]

Didn't be want a people's vote!!!

Yes


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[Newry Hibs]

Yes


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Well he got his own then.

[ronaldo7]

Dominic Grieve has just been deselected by his local party. The campaign was led by a former UKIP candidate.
As the tories move to the right the path is being left wide open for Change UK.


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Led by someone who stood against, Grieve, as a Ukip candidate in the GE 2017, was a UKIP local chairman, and stood for the UKIP NEC in 2016. Now resides in the conservative party.

Tories, continuing their lurch to the far right.

Step forward, Jon Conway, a very apt name.

[Ozyhibby]

Well he got his own then.

If the tories want to just become UKIP then I suppose so.


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[heretoday]

Why on earth would a UK wide Labour party wish to side with these two mad nationalist fringe parties. We'll probably lose a few voters because of brexit as it is never mind those we'd lose teaming up with these two sideshow bandwagons.

Great to see brexit hasn't seen a rise in bald nationalism though indeed the snp appear to have lost support according to their leaked polling and have lately seen arguments breaking out among their hierarchy.

Mon Labour!!!

You're either a wind-up or you are "labouring" under a massive misapprehension about the current scene.

And I'm a Labour supporter.

[The Modfather]

You're either a wind-up or you are "labouring" under a massive misapprehension about the current scene.

And I'm a Labour supporter.

He confirmed he was a troll rather than blinkered beyond belief a long time before his name change IMO

[GlesgaeHibby]

You're either a wind-up or you are "labouring" under a massive misapprehension about the current scene.

And I'm a Labour supporter.

Nothing more than a troll. Best ignored - another poster called out his nonsense about the DUP being a nationalist party. Plenty other nonsense called out too and the retort is 'Mon Labour'.

[Ozyhibby]

All quiet today from our politicians. There must be a lot of horse trading going on behind the scenes this weekend. They will want a majority for something on Monday night.


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[hibsbollah]

Nothing more than a troll. Best ignored - another poster called out his nonsense about the DUP being a nationalist party. Plenty other nonsense called out too and the retort is 'Mon Labour'.

Well to be fair they are nationalist, in the sense that they believe in the Ulster British nation above any notion of pluralism or alternative identities. They share the same right wing, socially intolerant and anti integration policies of UKIP and Yaxley Lennon's reinvented movement knucklescraping their way around Westminster yesterday.

[lapsedhibee]

the Ulster British nation
That doesn't make any more sense than the Scottish British nation, does it? :dunno:

[cabbageandribs1875]

More pleasant people

https://www.channel4.com/news/who-is-the-man-behind-the-fishing-for-leave-protest


he's not sure if it's his facebook page, too much of a coward to admit it :agree:


Several Orange bands there today for the pro Brexit rally, in full Sgt Pepper uniforms and no doubt lapping up the bile of the likes of Tommy Robinson. Any right wing excuse and they are out.



:greengrin scruffy chunts

meanwhile

ANGRY Brexiteers gathered in Parliament Square are being entertained by the flute band set up by Question Time’s infamous Orange Jacket Man. The Livingston True Blue Defenders took part in the Make Brexit Happen rally in London yesterday. The marchers, resplendent in quasi-military uniform, were seen on the BBC’s One O’Clock news as they arrived at the rally, organised by Ukip and EDL founder Tommy Robinson.
On a Facebook post advising band-members and fans about the trip to London, the group made sectarian jokes.
They wrote: “Travelling down and booked into a Wetherspoons (Pendel Oak , Holborn) where we will be looked after with food and refreshments when we arrive. Tim Martin the owner of Wetherspoons is the only Tim I'll be pleasant to this weekend!!!”
The band paraded from St Paul's cathedral down the Strand past Trafalgar Square before ending up outside the Houses of Parliament. They were parading with Fishing For Leave.

[Tornadoes70]

You're either a wind-up or you are "labouring" under a massive misapprehension about the current scene.

And I'm a Labour supporter.

Never once seen you on here 'supporting' Labour.

In stark contrast I'm on here posting my faithful support for the party I've supported since childhood which is not made at all easy by the amount of scots nationalists on here who mostly hound anyone who doesn't adhere to their stance.

Scots nationalism is never going to happen and going by the completely humorless hard-line no-one else's opinion matters other than their own attitudes demonstrated by the vast majority of Scot nationalists I'm more than happy that it won't ever occur.

Mon Labour!!!

[Callum_62]

Vote Leave drop there appeal against the electoral commission

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/eb0a567c88ae3fc8c6267405d574ca67.jpg


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[Moulin Yarns]

Never once seen you on here 'supporting' Labour.

In stark contrast I'm on here posting my faithful support for the party I've supported since childhood which is not made at all easy by the amount of scots nationalists on here who mostly hound anyone who doesn't adhere to their stance.

Scots nationalism is never going to happen and going by the completely humorless hard-line no-one else's opinion matters other than their own attitudes demonstrated by the vast majority of Scot nationalists I'm more than happy that it won't ever occur.

Mon Labour!!!

Must be bed time. I used to read by torchlight in bed, I guess you do other things by the light from your laptop 😉

[Jack Hackett]

Never once seen you on here 'supporting' Labour.

In stark contrast I'm on here posting my faithful support for the party I've supported since childhood which is not made at all easy by the amount of scots nationalists on here who mostly hound anyone who doesn't adhere to their stance.

Scots nationalism is never going to happen and going by the completely humorless hard-line no-one else's opinion matters other than their own attitudes demonstrated by the vast majority of Scot nationalists I'm more than happy that it won't ever occur.

Mon Labour!!!

Scots nationalism is a movement, not an event... and it may have escaped your notice, but it's happening right now. Scots Independence on the other hand will be an event, one hastened by the total incompetence of the current leader of the Labour Party and his utter inability to challenge the worst PM in the history of bad PMs. I've voted Labour my entire life, but that prick won't be getting a look in the next time of asking.

[hibsbollah]

That doesn't make any more sense than the Scottish British nation, does it? :dunno:

Does any of it?:devil: I'm a citizen of the world, personally :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Scots nationalism is a movement, not an event... and it may have escaped your notice, but it's happening right now. Scots Independence on the other hand will be an event, one hastened by the total incompetence of the current leader of the Labour Party and his utter inability to challenge the worst PM in the history of bad PMs. I've voted Labour my entire life, but that prick won't be getting a look in the next time of asking.

You do know Scottish Labours historic electoral collapse and current pathetic position predates Corbyn, yeah?

[Tornadoes70]

Scots nationalism is a movement, not an event... and it may have escaped your notice, but it's happening right now. Scots Independence on the other hand will be an event, one hastened by the total incompetence of the current leader of the Labour Party and his utter inability to challenge the worst PM in the history of bad PMs. I've voted Labour my entire life, but that prick won't be getting a look in the next time of asking.

Cannot take you at all seriously.

Jeremy is old school Labour who is/has transformed the party back to its pre tory blairite, socialist roots.

The snp resembles a wee free church lodge and you would follow them rather than old school socialist Jeremy. Who you trying to kid eh?

You certainly don't fool me.

Mon Labour!!!

[Jack Hackett]

You do know Scottish Labours historic electoral collapse and current pathetic position predates Corbyn, yeah?

Not sure what point you're trying to make, but yes, I do. I don't live or vote in Scotland

[Jack Hackett]

Cannot take you at all seriously.

Jeremy is old school Labour who is/has transformed the party back to its pre tory blairite, socialist roots.

The snp resembles a wee free church lodge and you would follow them rather than old school socialist Jeremy. Who you trying to kid eh?

You certainly don't fool me.

Mon Labour!!!

Your taking Corbyn seriously disturbs me

[weecounty hibby]

he's not sure if it's his facebook page, too much of a coward to admit it :agree:





:greengrin scruffy chunts

meanwhile

ANGRY Brexiteers gathered in Parliament Square are being entertained by the flute band set up by Question Time’s infamous Orange Jacket Man. The Livingston True Blue Defenders took part in the Make Brexit Happen rally in London yesterday. The marchers, resplendent in quasi-military uniform, were seen on the BBC’s One O’Clock news as they arrived at the rally, organised by Ukip and EDL founder Tommy Robinson.
On a Facebook post advising band-members and fans about the trip to London, the group made sectarian jokes.
They wrote: “Travelling down and booked into a Wetherspoons (Pendel Oak , Holborn) where we will be looked after with food and refreshments when we arrive. Tim Martin the owner of Wetherspoons is the only Tim I'll be pleasant to this weekend!!!”
The band paraded from St Paul's cathedral down the Strand past Trafalgar Square before ending up outside the Houses of Parliament. They were parading with Fishing For Leave.


Honesty, that makes me want to weep. Bigoted, hatred. And that is what David Cameron should be remembered for. Allowing that sort of hatred to become mainstream. H and the Tories have a lot to answer for. Save the party but **** th country!! Shameful

[1875godsgift]

Never once seen you on here 'supporting' Labour.

In stark contrast I'm on here posting my faithful support for the party I've supported since childhood which is not made at all easy by the amount of scots nationalists on here who mostly hound anyone who doesn't adhere to their stance.

Scots nationalism is never going to happen and going by the completely humorless hard-line no-one else's opinion matters other than their own attitudes demonstrated by the vast majority of Scot nationalists I'm more than happy that it won't ever occur.

Mon Labour!!!

:kettle:To be honest, that sounds like virtually every one of your posts....

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

he's not sure if it's his facebook page, too much of a coward to admit it :agree:





:greengrin scruffy chunts

meanwhile

ANGRY Brexiteers gathered in Parliament Square are being entertained by the flute band set up by Question Time’s infamous Orange Jacket Man. The Livingston True Blue Defenders took part in the Make Brexit Happen rally in London yesterday. The marchers, resplendent in quasi-military uniform, were seen on the BBC’s One O’Clock news as they arrived at the rally, organised by Ukip and EDL founder Tommy Robinson.
On a Facebook post advising band-members and fans about the trip to London, the group made sectarian jokes.
They wrote: “Travelling down and booked into a Wetherspoons (Pendel Oak , Holborn) where we will be looked after with food and refreshments when we arrive. Tim Martin the owner of Wetherspoons is the only Tim I'll be pleasant to this weekend!!!”
The band paraded from St Paul's cathedral down the Strand past Trafalgar Square before ending up outside the Houses of Parliament. They were parading with Fishing For Leave.


That's the same Wetherspoon's that London Hibs hold their annual Burns Supper at.

[Tornadoes70]

Wow,. just wow. Yet again no real counter argument, even to a rant like mine. Pathetic. Totally ****ing pathetic. Jeremy is great, Jeremy will fix stuff, Jeremy will sort this out. No argument as to how, why, when, where etc. You are e total brainwashed areshole and you, as much as David Cameron and the right wing are to blame for everything going on just now.

No, blair and his move towards the center right is to blame for the shift from labour to madcap nationalist fringe parties like yours and is entirely why you and your brethren become so faux outraged at a genuine socialist like Jeremy re tranforming the great UK wide Labour party back to its socialist roots as it may see the madcap nationalist fringe parties like your snp lose its ex Labour members.

Mon Labour!!!

[1875godsgift]

No, blair and his move towards the center right is to blame for the shift from labour to madcap nationalist fringe parties like yours and is entirely why you and your brethren become so faux outraged at a genuine socialist like Jeremy re tranforming the great UK wide Labour party back to its socialist roots as it may see the madcap nationalist fringe parties like your snp lose its ex Labour members.

Mon Labour!!!

Have you ever read 'Animal Farm'?

[Tornadoes70]

Have you ever read 'Animal Farm'?

What do you mean?

I'm not a codist or decipherer of text.

The snp is a singular nationalist for Scotland only party I know that but 'Animal Farm' by itself?

Mon Labour!!!

[1875godsgift]

What do you mean?

I'm not a codist or decipherer of text.

The snp is a singular nationalist for Scotland only party I know that but 'Animal Farm' by itself?

Mon Labour!!!

'Four legs good, two legs better'

Decipher that.

[Tornadoes70]

'Four legs good, two legs better'

Decipher that.

Nope.

Still none the wiser.

Is it snp wee free church brethren deep code?

Mon Labour!!!

[hibsbollah]

So Tornadoes is now being called a fud, a prick, an idiot, brainwashed, ********, and that another poster 'hates' him:rolleyes:

I've not noticed him being any worse than repetitive and certainly doesn't abuse anyone.

[James310]

Honesty, that makes me want to weep. Bigoted, hatred. And that is what David Cameron should be remembered for. Allowing that sort of hatred to become mainstream. H and the Tories have a lot to answer for. Save the party but **** th country!! Shameful

Did these bands not come from Scotland? They have been in Scotland for a long time before David Cameron was born and Brexit was even a word.

They do this every summer in Scotland, through the streets of many towns and cities.

Why is it so awful now, as its been mainstream in Scotland for years.

I don't agree with what they do but the faux outrage now seems slightly odd when they have marched in Scotland for years.

[Callum_62]

Did these bands not come from Scotland? They have been in Scotland for a long time before David Cameron was born and Brexit was even a word.

They do this every summer in Scotland, through the streets of many towns and cities.

Why is it so awful now, as its been mainstream in Scotland for years.

I don't agree with what they do but the faux outrage now seems slightly odd when they have marched in Scotland for years.

I remember a thread on these forums recently about the very topic

I dont think its faux at all


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[James310]

So Tornadoes is now being called a fud, a prick, an idiot, brainwashed, ********, and that another poster 'hates' him:rolleyes:

I've not noticed him being any worse than repetitive and certainly doesn't abuse anyone.

Not surprised. Anyone who holds a different view is quickly jumped on by the small group of Nat fanatics who can't help themselves and resort to personal abuse.

[James310]

I remember a thread on these forums recently about the very topic

I dont its faux at all


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Maybe not from you, but the reply to the original post seemed to suggest they only existed due to David Cameron and Brexit, which is nonsense.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm nationalist but it's a shame a great thread gets spoiled somewhat by rabid nationalists. Give it a rest we all have different opinions.

Anyway notice some papers today saying very real chance of cabinet split, I really can't see what may does next

[Slavers]

Not surprised. Anyone who holds a different view is quickly jumped on by the small group of Nat fanatics who can't help themselves and resort to personal abuse.

Sad but true! They have lost their minds as they talk of inclusive independent Scotland then on the other side of their face lash out personal abuse at the earliest opportunity.

[The Modfather]

So Tornadoes is now being called a fud, a prick, an idiot, brainwashed, ********, and that another poster 'hates' him:rolleyes:

I've not noticed him being any worse than repetitive and certainly doesn't abuse anyone.

Are they not the kind of responses trolls are looking for. Sure he’d soon go away if folk simply ignored him and deprived him the oxygen of a reply.

[nairn hibee]

Nope.

Still none the wiser.

Is it snp wee free church brethren deep code?

Mon Labour!!!
I was on your side until your snide free church comments .what is their deep code ? .what lodge are you meaning ,surely not a orange or Masonic lodge .as no member of the free church would ever be invited to join them.not really any better than the ones your hitting out at are you

[Hibbyradge]

Is this still the Brexit thread?

[Moulin Yarns]

Is this still the Brexit thread?

Just for you. 😉

https://twitter.com/djhenshall/status/1111929585720008704?s=19


https://twitter.com/ashnotatree/status/1111930716785393664?s=19


https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584?fbclid=IwAR0lNkZZ6TmMs0GI0JISbYaArkwpRbJe8m-XS15-5V_UEIDG8mPKe3ZMKRo

[Future17]

Good headline from The Herald:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47764631

[JeMeSouviens]

Tom Watson says “inconceivable” Lab manifesto wouldn’t include PV. :-)

[JeMeSouviens]

Twitter gag: someone remind Rees-Mogg to put his clock forward by a century.

[Pretty Boy]

Parts of this thread are a sad confirmation of what the Holy Ground has become and other moments of enlightenment are a reminder of what it was originally intended to be.

The personal vendettas that are playing out really are pathetic; children in primary school would be embarrassed by some of the stuff getting thrown about. If we have to label it then both 'sides' are as bad as each other with people being called 'morons', 'idiots' and other banal nonsense.

For the record we are trying to deal with this situation privately, discreetly and sensibly. It's a shame that what was once a fun place to exchange ideas and debate has been hijacked by a handful of posters who steamroller every thread with the same point scoring nonsense that we have all read a thousand times before. Whilst it is clearly not a concern to them it is driving other people away from this area of the forum and that's not on.

[lapsedhibee]

Twitter gag: someone remind Rees-Mogg to put his clock forward by a century.
How is it known that his clock was running a century fast?

[DaveF]

So Tornadoes is now being called a fud, a prick, an idiot, brainwashed, ********, and that another poster 'hates' him:rolleyes:

I've not noticed him being any worse than repetitive and certainly doesn't abuse anyone.

He's a wind up merchant.

As one who dished out 'abuse' if you want to call it that, I did so out of sheer frustration as his posts have ruined the thread.

I enjoyed reading the discussions between you, JMS and even John/James but his guy adds nothing and simply dragged everything down. Fair enough if you are happy to see that go on but I rarely look here now because of it.

[Smartie]

Just for you. 😉

https://twitter.com/djhenshall/status/1111929585720008704?s=19


https://twitter.com/ashnotatree/status/1111930716785393664?s=19


https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584?fbclid=IwAR0lNkZZ6TmMs0GI0JISbYaArkwpRbJe8m-XS15-5V_UEIDG8mPKe3ZMKRo

It appears that Mr Henshall played something of a blinder on twitter last night.

[Jack Hackett]

https://www.stopbrexitmisconduct.org.uk/may_summons

"On Friday 22 March 2019, the barrister David Wolchover attended City of Westminster Magistrates' Court on his own behalf and that of Professor Joshua Silver of Oxford University, in order to apply to the magistrates for a summons against Theresa May alleging she is guilty of the Common law indictable offence of Misconduct in Public Office. The offence carries a maximum penalty of Life Imprisonment.

Following submissions at a short formal hearing the application was adjourned to 2pm on Tuesday April 9th for a full oral hearing in front of the Deputy Senior District Judge for England and Wales."

We can but hope

[PeeJay]

https://www.stopbrexitmisconduct.org.uk/may_summons

"On Friday 22 March 2019, the barrister David Wolchover attended City of Westminster Magistrates' Court on his own behalf and that of Professor Joshua Silver of Oxford University, in order to apply to the magistrates for a summons against Theresa May alleging she is guilty of the Common law indictable offence of Misconduct in Public Office. The offence carries a maximum penalty of Life Imprisonment.

Following submissions at a short formal hearing the application was adjourned to 2pm on Tuesday April 9th for a full oral hearing in front of the Deputy Senior District Judge for England and Wales."

We can but hope

... this isn't a day early? :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.stopbrexitmisconduct.org.uk/may_summons

"On Friday 22 March 2019, the barrister David Wolchover attended City of Westminster Magistrates' Court on his own behalf and that of Professor Joshua Silver of Oxford University, in order to apply to the magistrates for a summons against Theresa May alleging she is guilty of the Common law indictable offence of Misconduct in Public Office. The offence carries a maximum penalty of Life Imprisonment.

Following submissions at a short formal hearing the application was adjourned to 2pm on Tuesday April 9th for a full oral hearing in front of the Deputy Senior District Judge for England and Wales."

We can but hope

The question has to be asked, why wait until now?

[Jack Hackett]

The question has to be asked, why wait until now?

Beats the crap out of me. Legal challenges to the whole process should have been a day one priority

[SHODAN]

Tom Watson says “inconceivable” Lab manifesto wouldn’t include PV. :-)

Good, I'd feel comfortable voting for Labour if my constituency wasn't one of the safest in the country.

[jonty]

"Latest CER estimate: the UK economy is 2.5 per cent smaller than it would be if Britain had voted remain. The knock-on hit to the public finances is £19 billion per annum – or £360 million a week."

https://twitter.com/CER_EU/status/1111915972632420353


The irony.
And we haven't even left the EU.

[Slavers]

"Latest CER estimate: the UK economy is 2.5 per cent smaller than it would be if Britain had voted remain. The knock-on hit to the public finances is £19 billion per annum – or £360 million a week."

https://twitter.com/CER_EU/status/1111915972632420353


The irony.
And we haven't even left the EU.

Who are the CER?

How's does the UK economy compare with the other member states of the EU currently.

[JeMeSouviens]

Who are the CER?

How's does the UK economy compare with the other member states of the EU currently.

3rd slowest growth of the 28.

CER is an independent think tank, here are their donors:

https://www.cer.eu/corporate-donors

[jonty]

Who are the CER?

How's does the UK economy compare with the other member states of the EU currently.

How much would you like spoon fed to you?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=who+are+the+CER

You could always click on the link and find out.

[JeMeSouviens]

Parts of this thread are a sad confirmation of what the Holy Ground has become and other moments of enlightenment are a reminder of what it was originally intended to be.

The personal vendettas that are playing out really are pathetic; children in primary school would be embarrassed by some of the stuff getting thrown about. If we have to label it then both 'sides' are as bad as each other with people being called 'morons', 'idiots' and other banal nonsense.

For the record we are trying to deal with this situation privately, discreetly and sensibly. It's a shame that what was once a fun place to exchange ideas and debate has been hijacked by a handful of posters who steamroller every thread with the same point scoring nonsense that we have all read a thousand times before. Whilst it is clearly not a concern to them it is driving other people away from this area of the forum and that's not on.

I hear what you’re saying but still think the HG has some quality chat.

I think you need to call out posters with examples if you want us to change. I know I have crossed the line on occasion although I don’t post anything I don’t believe or know to be wrong.

[SHODAN]

So what's the plan for today? Hopefully we get a big majority for Common Market 2.0.

[Ozyhibby]

So what's the plan for today? Hopefully we get a big majority for Common Market 2.0.

It will depend on Labour backing it. They haven’t said yet.


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[Ozyhibby]

So what's the plan for today? Hopefully we get a big majority for Common Market 2.0.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/cb5a8b1d2c5b0281f7c5f79b534fb177.jpg

SNP confirm their support



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[SHODAN]

The people's vote group are now considering discouraging support for Common Market 2.0. Meanwhile the soft Brexit Labour/Tories who could be persuaded to vote for CM2.0 will vote against a second ref.

These idiots are going to get neither option passed between each other.

[Ozyhibby]

The people's vote group are now considering discouraging support for Common Market 2.0. Meanwhile the soft Brexit Labour/Tories who could be persuaded to vote for CM2.0 will vote against a second ref.

These idiots are going to get neither option passed between each other.

Labour are now going to back CM 2.0


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[SHODAN]

Labour are now going to back CM 2.0


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Still need TIG, Lib Dems, DUP and some Tories onside for it to pass. Or have any of them already committed?

[Ozyhibby]

Labour are now going to back CM 2.0


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By my calculations if Labour mp’s obey the whip in the same numbers they did for the CU vote, this will have a majority tonight. If Lib Dem’s and DUP come on board it will be comfortable.


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[Ozyhibby]

Still need TIG, Lib Dems, DUP and some Tories onside for it to pass. Or have any of them already committed?

Enough tories on board I think.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/57d0e807887b27432f647819f4532402.jpg
If you look at the votes from the other day, this had most support from Tory remainers. It just needed Labour and SNP to back it. It’s closest to Labours own plan and they are not submitting theirs again.
Crucially the DUP did not vote against it last time which means they can live with it.


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[Ozyhibby]

DUP have said they will abstain again tonight on CM 2.0. Still looking good for a majority.


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[SHODAN]

Things might actually be ok

[Ozyhibby]

Cabinet told to abstain again. CM 2.0 still looking good.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/ef616e589c81c4439009031eded2330c.jpg


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[JeMeSouviens]

Cabinet told to abstain again. CM 2.0 still looking good.


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CM2.0 with a confirmation ref and Tories will explode. Serious risk I’ll die laughing too right enough. :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

I think the only thing that will come of today is that some of the Tory hardliners will realise that May's deal is probably the lesser of many evils.

[jonty]

Cabinet told to abstain again. CM 2.0 still looking good.


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Am I right in thinking that CM2.0 is basically being in the EU but without any voting rights or powers of influence?
(ie taking back control means we give up control?)

If so its Bonkers. again.

[BroxburnHibee]

Am I right in thinking that CM2.0 is basically being in the EU but without any voting rights or powers of influence?
(ie taking back control means we give up control?)

If so its Bonkers. again.

Which is why May will not entertain it.

If she cant get her vote in again then it's long extension, European elections and a General Election in 6 weeks.

[Mr Grieves]

You couldn't make it up

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1112746689960513539?s=19

[SHODAN]

I think the only thing that will come of today is that some of the Tory hardliners will realise that May's deal is probably the lesser of many evils.

Same. Our only hope is the DUP backing it over May's deal in a head-to-head given it means no special arrangements for NI.

[Jack Hackett]

You couldn't make it up

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1112746689960513539?s=19

You don't have to. Watching the debate on revoking A50 to prevent no deal, and Joanna Cherry putting forward a very strong case... Government side of the house practically empty. They don't want to be educated on the options :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

At this stage, CM 2.0 would be a good result.

Someone made the good point yesterday that demographic changes mean in five years we will probably see a UK Government elected that will reverse Brexit, regardless whether or not we get another referendum in the interim. It's an intergenerational conflict in a lot of ways, you can see how angry the current 14-18 age group is with the nonsense that's been foisted upon them. Assuming the Europeans want us back then,of course.

[jonty]

At this stage, CM 2.0 would be a good result.

Someone made the good point yesterday that demographic changes mean in five years we will probably see a UK Government elected that will reverse Brexit, regardless whether or not we get another referendum in the interim. It's an intergenerational conflict in a lot of ways, you can see how angry the current 14-18 age group is with the nonsense that's been foisted upon them. Assuming the Europeans want us back then,of course.

And we'd lose all concessions that have been negotiated over the years.

[SHODAN]

At this stage, CM 2.0 would be a good result.

Someone made the good point yesterday that demographic changes mean in five years we will probably see a UK Government elected that will reverse Brexit, regardless whether or not we get another referendum in the interim. It's an intergenerational conflict in a lot of ways, you can see how angry the current 14-18 age group is with the nonsense that's been foisted upon them. Assuming the Europeans want us back then,of course.

At a certain point UK support for EU membership will rise above 60% and never look back. Millennials/Gen Z are extremely pro-European.

[Ozyhibby]

At a certain point UK support for EU membership will rise above 60% and never look back. Millennials/Gen Z are extremely pro-European.

The reason we have never been pro European before is that we have never really tried to take part in the EU. Our media has never paid any attention to what is going on in Brussels, so British people have never paid any attention. That makes it seem like it is them v us.
Irish media are constantly running stories about things that are being debated in the EU and therefore Irish people feel part of the conversation.
If we end up staying in then we will need to change our attitude to it in order for it to be a success.



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[Callum_62]

If CU gains a majority no way will May go for it

Shel pit her deal against it again most likely and possibly get the 25 or so she needs to switch sides

Ah, democracy [emoji102]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/b3cb3f871991380a3c33db1a934e64d3.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

DUP to abstain on all 4 votes. They voted against 3 of them last time so a blow for the govt if true.


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[Callum_62]

DUP to abstain on all 4 votes. They voted against 3 of them last time so a blow for the govt if true.


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Dup would rather stay in the EU [emoji102][emoji1303]


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[JeMeSouviens]

Am I right in thinking that CM2.0 is basically being in the EU but without any voting rights or powers of influence?
(ie taking back control means we give up control?)

If so its Bonkers. again.

There are differences. non-EU EEA members are not in the common agricultural or fisheries policies. afaik there’s no sign up to any common EU foreign or security policies either and obviously no “ever closer union” stuff.

[Callum_62]

What is this “managed no deal” pish thats now being flouted?

Apparently its her one chance to save the conservative party

No doubt she choose that option then


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[JeMeSouviens]

What is this “managed no deal” pish thats now being flouted?


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Total wishful thinking. The idea is doing a series of mini deals to cover some of the areas where there will be no arrangements in the event of no deal. Also to pay the EU to give a transition period so the UK can prepare for no deal.

The EU has explicitly ruled it out.

[Callum_62]

Total wishful thinking. The idea is doing a series of mini deals to cover some of the areas where there will be no arrangements in the event of no deal. Also to pay the EU to give a transition period so the UK can prepare for no deal.

The EU has explicitly ruled it out.

Why would 200mps sign for it then

Are these folk on another planet?

For the past 3 years they’ve been chasing things that didnt exist


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[JeMeSouviens]

Why would 200mps sign for it then

Are these folk on another planet?

For the past 3 years they’ve been chasing things that didnt exist


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Because they’re the UK, they won the war you know and the EU don’t really mean what they say (despite having done what they said they would every step of the way.)

In short, they’re completely barking.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/mar/29/brexit-debate-latest-developments-live-news-may-at-risk-of-fresh-defeat-as-mps-debate-withdrawal-agreement-for-third-time-live-news?page=with:block-5c9e475ee4b0833458364760#block-5c9e475ee4b0833458364760

[lapsedhibee]

Because they’re the UK, they won the war you know and the EU don’t really mean what they say (despite having done what they said they would every step of the way.)

In short, they’re completely barking.


:agree: Short Radio 4 documentary here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRQnUIIp-HU

[Hibrandenburg]

All 4 options rejected.

[Callum_62]

Britain is an embarrassment


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[Callum_62]

Nick boles just resigned live in air


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[Ryan91]

Has to be the people that decide now, Goverment and Parliament have all had multiple attempts at trying to get any sort of consensus and all attempts have failed.

If those we have elected to serve as our voices in Parliament are incapable of coming to a decision, it stands to reason that the electorate should be given the opportunity to decide what it wants.

Unfortunately it's probably not going to happen, as doing so would likely mean the disintegration of the Tories as a political party as the divisions regarding Europe within said party become even more clear

[GlesgaeHibby]

Nick boles just resigned live in air


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Good on him. Could tell it wasn't an easy decision for him when he was speaking there.

[Moulin Yarns]

Best of 3 on Wednesday

[Ryan91]

Good on him. Could tell it wasn't an easy decision for him when he was speaking there.

Wonder if he'll sit as an independent MP or maybe join Change UK/TIG?

[Speedy]

Has to be the people that decide now, Goverment and Parliament have all had multiple attempts at trying to get any sort of consensus and all attempts have failed.

If those we have elected to serve as our voices in Parliament are incapable of coming to a decision, it stands to reason that the electorate should be given the opportunity to decide what it wants.

Unfortunately it's probably not going to happen, as doing so would likely mean the disintegration of the Tories as a political party as the divisions regarding Europe within said party become even more clear

It's the right thing to do imo.

Come up with an option and go to the public with 'Remain' or 'Leave on these terms'

[JeMeSouviens]

It's the right thing to do imo.

Come up with an option and go to the public with 'Remain' or 'Leave on these terms'

I agree but while Remainers agree on Remain, Leavers have shown themselves entirely incapable of putting up one deliverable way to Leave.

[James310]

Ian Murray Labour MP

If the SNP had not abstained in the Clarke amendment we would have had that as a minimum. Ken Clarke said it was a bare minimum that could have been added to later. Disappointing as now nothing has passed. On to Wednesday. We must find a consensus.

[Callum_62]

Ian Murray Labour MP

If the SNP had not abstained in the Clarke amendment we would have had that as a minimum. Ken Clarke said it was a bare minimum that could have been added to later. Disappointing as now nothing has passed. On to Wednesday. We must find a consensus.

Or if the 33 Lab MPs didn’t abstain on common market 2.0.....

Deals need to be done by weds and folk need to start making choices


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[JeMeSouviens]

24 Lab votes against ref2.

[JeMeSouviens]

TIG against CM2.0

[Callum_62]

Wonder if he'll sit as an independent MP or maybe join Change UK/TIG?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/f8ec202b504f4f62fb5ae3b1e0c34e22.jpg



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[JeMeSouviens]

106 Lab abstentions on Joanna Cherry’s safety net.

[JeMeSouviens]

DUP against everything - reliable!

[JeMeSouviens]

Tories hardly shifting - that’s by far the biggest problem in all this. They just won’t compromise.

[hibsbollah]

Or if the 33 Lab MPs didn’t abstain on common market 2.0.....

Deals need to be done by weds and folk need to start making choices


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It's hardly surprising that neither Blackford or Ian Murray have the ability to do anything but blame each others party tonight, it's pretty much their only modus operandi. Lads, it's the Tories you should be battering.

[Callum_62]

It's hardly surprising that neither Blackford or Ian Murray have the ability to do anything but blame each others party tonight, it's pretty much their only modus operandi. Lads, it's the Tories you should be battering.

Did blackford blame labour?

Didnt see his full speech


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[hibsbollah]

Did blackford blame labour?

Didnt see his full speech


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He just said on Newsnight 'the blame for this lies with Labour. I assume by 'this' he meant the failure of the Cherry paper,, but it wasn't clear.

[ronaldo7]

Did blackford blame labour?

Didnt see his full speech


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Not in his point of order after the vote. He was pushed on newsnight about the SNP being to blame for the customs Union not passing. He reflected all votes in his answer.

It's interesting on here that we always seem to get the votes of labour and SNP, but seldom do we hear of the tory abstentions.

I'm sure someone must know. 😏

[JeMeSouviens]

Newsnight’s Nick Watt reports the Tories aggressively whipped against CM2.0 because of FoM (no surprise) but also:

“PM believes that at a stroke the Boles plan would have destroyed main pro-UK argument in a Scottish independence referendum: stay in UK as the only way to maintain full access to Scotland’s largest market in rest of UK”

This is incredible. They’d rather trash their own economy than see us independent. Lunacy.

[Mr Grieves]

Ian Murray Labour MP

If the SNP had not abstained in the Clarke amendment we would have had that as a minimum. Ken Clarke said it was a bare minimum that could have been added to later. Disappointing as now nothing has passed. On to Wednesday. We must find a consensus.

Why not mention that if 10 Labour or 5 Lib Dem MPs never voted against it would have passed? Or what about the tories, who are unwilling to compromise, voting against it in their hundreds?

[Mr Grieves]

Tories hardly shifting - that’s by far the biggest problem in all this. They just won’t compromise.

Yep, too many of them believe that staying in a customs union or single market/customs union is not brexit. I reckon eurosceptics would have bit your hand off for that 10 years ago. There were reports yesterday that around 200 Tory MPs signed a letter asking for a no deal brexit.

[Callum_62]

Newsnight’s Nick Watt reports the Tories aggressively whipped against CM2.0 because of FoM (no surprise) but also:

“PM believes that at a stroke the Boles plan would have destroyed main pro-UK argument in a Scottish independence referendum: stay in UK as the only way to maintain full access to Scotland’s largest market in rest of UK”

This is incredible. They’d rather trash their own economy than see us independent. Lunacy.

Pretty strange for a country that burdens them financially [emoji848]


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[Jack]

Someone made the point last night that in 3 of the 4 votes the Scottish MPs together voted in a positive way.

[SHODAN]

DUP voted against everything. They want a hard Brexit.

Also depressing to see the stupid vanity project TIG voting against CM2.0.

EDIT: Also noticed the Lib Dems voted against it too. That's utterly ridiculous. They'll end up giving us No Deal.

[Callum_62]

Nick Boles wasnt wrong with what party he blamed for not compromising

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/69d253136fd0ec043a21f39846c1f046.jpg


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[Hibbyradge]

The situation is genuinely depressing and embarrassing.

I'm in Mallorca and I'm ashamed of my country.

[Ozyhibby]

Newsnight’s Nick Watt reports the Tories aggressively whipped against CM2.0 because of FoM (no surprise) but also:

“PM believes that at a stroke the Boles plan would have destroyed main pro-UK argument in a Scottish independence referendum: stay in UK as the only way to maintain full access to Scotland’s largest market in rest of UK”

This is incredible. They’d rather trash their own economy than see us independent. Lunacy.

I’ve said all along that it is important that the border stays open or there is no chance of Scotland voting for independence.
CM 2.0 would have been perfect for the SNP.


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[Moulin Yarns]

I’ve said all along that it is important that the border stays open or there is no chance of Scotland voting for independence.
CM 2.0 would have been perfect for the SNP.


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It would have been perfect for almost everyone bar the ERG, it would even have worked for the DUP, but they didn't support it.

[Ozyhibby]

It would have been perfect for almost everyone bar the ERG, it would even have worked for the DUP, but they didn't support it.

It’s the TIG’s that are most annoying. They have shown themselves to be remain fundamentalists.
For those of us who would like independence, it’s finished unless we get CM 2.0 or another vote and we remain. All to play for now on Wednesday.


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[McSwanky]

remain fundamentalists

:tee hee:

[lapsedhibee]

I’ve said all along that it is important that the border stays open or there is no chance of Scotland voting for independence.
CM 2.0 would have been perfect for the SNP.


Shirley the SNP should have voted for Clarke's motion too, if only to help demonstrate that the Indicative Votes process as a whole might lead somewhere? :dunno:
12/12 "No"s is just pissing everyone off.

[SHODAN]

Shirley the SNP should have voted for Clarke's motion too, if only to help demonstrate that the Indicative Votes process as a whole might lead somewhere? :dunno:
12/12 "No"s is just pissing everyone off.

The SNP's red line is freedom of movement and I entirely support them on this. Customs union is May's deal but a bit less **** and is pointless IMO.

The real villains here are the LDs and TIG, who will refuse to even compromise, and the DUP who want absolute regulatory alignment with the UK but are entirely supportive of a big ****ing border between them and the rest of Ireland.

[Bristolhibby]

The SNP's red line is freedom of movement and I entirely support them on this. Customs union is May's deal but a bit less **** and is pointless IMO.

The real villains here are the LDs and TIG, who will refuse to even compromise, and the DUP who want absolute regulatory alignment with the UK but are entirely supportive of a big ****ing border between them and the rest of Ireland.

Corrected for you (and every one else).

“The real villans here are the Consevertive and Unionist Party”.

Let’s never forget this truth.

Everyone else is reacting to this **** storm they caused.

J

[Ozyhibby]

Let win not bringing forward any more votes on Wednesday. It’s May’s deal or no deal now.


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[SHODAN]

Let win not bringing forward any more votes on Wednesday. It’s May’s deal or no deal now.


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It's May's deal or a general election.

Or just a general election, if Bercow blocks it.

EDIT: Cabinet apparently discussing 2nd ref amendment to 4th deal vote, with long extension if it fails again.

[BroxburnHibee]

I cant see Bercow allowing it back unless an olive branch like a 2nd referendum amendment is attached to it.

I'd imagine the argument going on in 10 Downing St right now is between that option or a General Election.

I don't see no deal being allowed to happen at all.

I noticed Cooper submitting a motion today for discussion tomorrow.

Edit. Her motion apparently forces the government into asking for an extension. Not sure that would pass without a clear plan for the extension.

[HappyAsHellas]

I shudder to think of the carnage a general election would cause - what would the manifesto's look like? A recipe for a hung parliament and nothing happening again. Hopefully on the 12th the EU will tell us to bolt and then we can spend the next 2 years trying to discuss what we actually want with no guaranteed outcome. Democracy in action or inaction.

[Callum_62]

I shudder to think of the carnage a general election would cause - what would the manifesto's look like? A recipe for a hung parliament and nothing happening again. Hopefully on the 12th the EU will tell us to bolt and then we can spend the next 2 years trying to discuss what we actually want with no guaranteed outcome. Democracy in action or inaction.

If the EU tells us to bolt we will be busy trying to douse the flames a no deal will
Undoubtedly cause


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[HappyAsHellas]

Yes I agree, but it might spur someone on to doing something.

[Moulin Yarns]

I shudder to think of the carnage a general election would cause - what would the manifesto's look like? A recipe for a hung parliament and nothing happening again. Hopefully on the 12th the EU will tell us to bolt and then we can spend the next 2 years trying to discuss what we actually want with no guaranteed outcome. Democracy in action or inaction.

If the EU tell us to bolt the next 2 years is irrelevant. There is no transition period. It is starting from scratch. Bottom of the pile.

[Callum_62]

Surely a no deal would mean a hard birder in ireland?


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[Moulin Yarns]

Surely a no deal would mean a hard birder in ireland?


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Yes, which is why I can't understand their vote last night.

[Callum_62]

Yes, which is why I can't understand their vote last night.

That was going to be my next question - im no political expert but cant understand that


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[GlesgaeHibby]

Yes, which is why I can't understand their vote last night.

They are idiots - they want a hard Brexit but no hard border on Ireland. Both are not possible.

[Callum_62]

Theresa May statement due shortly after mammoth cabinet meeting

“Brexit means Brexit? “

“Red white and blue Brexit?”


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[GlesgaeHibby]

Theresa May statement due shortly after mammoth cabinet meeting

“Brexit means Brexit? “

“Red white and blue Brexit?”


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Will be the same ***** from her. 'Back my deal'

[Callum_62]

Will be the same ***** from her. 'Back my deal'

Surely not after 8, 9 hours of cabinet meeting

Using the ministerial crest or whatever its called so means she isnt calling a GE


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[Callum_62]

“Extension to article 50 - only ends with a deal”

Offers to sit down with labour to agree a plan

[emoji1303]

Sldve been done years ago

For all the stick ive given May - its the most personable ive seen her in a speech


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[JeMeSouviens]

No cabinet leaks today, seemingly she’s confiscated their phones. :greengrin

[Blackfordhibby]

For the love o' christ, how much longer will we have to suffer this crap?

[Callum_62]

She has finally chosen national interest over party interest it would seem

Now - will Jeremy meet her? [emoji102][emoji50]


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[JeMeSouviens]

“Extension to article 50 - only ends with a deal”

Offers to sit down with labour to agree a plan

[emoji1303]

Sldve been done years ago

For all the stick ive given May - its the most personable ive seen her in a speech


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To be fair, that’s a very low bar. Could you tell if she’s android or organic?

[GlesgaeHibby]

She has finally chosen national interest over party interest it would seem

Now - will Jeremy meet her? [emoji102][emoji50]


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Bollocks. She talks about national interest lots and does the opposite.

Translation of what she said is extend article 50 until Corbyn agrees with WA

[SHODAN]

Forgive me, but what sort of agreement can may and Corbyn come up with that involves not changing her deal?

Surely the only thing Corbyn would agree to was a second referendum?

[Callum_62]

Bollocks. She talks about national interest lots and does the opposite.

Translation of what she said is extend article 50 until Corbyn agrees with WA

This is the first time she has offered cross party talks

Today she has chosen to try for softer brexit

It could’ve easily went the other way today


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[GlesgaeHibby]

This is the first time she has offered cross party talks

Today she has chosen to try for softer brexit

It could’ve easily went the other way today


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There were talks a week or two ago where JC walked out as Chuka was there.

[Callum_62]

There were talks a week or two ago where JC walked out as Chuka was there.

Difference here is she has taken no deal off the table.

This is certainly different from the talks a few weeks ago

Suspect we will end up with a CU. Its probably the easiest and quickest way to get it done. Gets rid of FOM, which im sure they really want to keep the leave voting public happy


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[Chorley Hibee]

It stinks of the Tories trying to lay the blame for this mess at Corbyn and the Labour Party's door.

I'd be incredibly wary of getting involved in this.

[Callum_62]

It stinks of the Tories trying to lay the blame for this mess at Corbyn and the Labour Party's door.

I'd be incredibly wary of getting involved in this.

Gosh and some point there needs to be proper cross party talks.

Labours wants and mays deal has never been a million miles apart

She has potentially caused a massive rift in her party by coming down on, imho the right side of the brexit conundrum


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[GlesgaeHibby]

Difference here is she has taken no deal off the table.

This is certainly different from the talks a few weeks ago

Suspect we will end up with a CU. Its probably the easiest and quickest way to get it done. Gets rid of FOM, which im sure they really want to keep the leave voting public happy


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She hasn't taken no deal off table. It's still legal default on 12th April. Wanting Labour to back her deal and if they don't blame them when we crash out with no deal

[Hibbyradge]

It stinks of the Tories trying to lay the blame for this mess at Corbyn and the Labour Party's door.

I'd be incredibly wary of getting involved in this.

You're putting party politics before the national interest.


But, in one sense, you're probably right. If Labour refuse to get involved, they'll get the blame.

[Hibbyradge]

She hasn't taken no deal off table. It's still legal default on 12th April. Wanting Labour to back her deal and if they don't blame them when we crash out with no deal

She spoke about putting binding options to parliament. No deal won't be one of them

[Callum_62]

Not really IMHO

Her own party is voting against her deal

If we end up with a no deal - everyone will blame her

Theres no way she’s getting involved this publicly but then not budging at all


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[Chorley Hibee]

You're putting party politics before the national interest.


But, in one sense, you're probably right. If Labour refuse to get involved, they'll get the blame.

The Tory party will always put their own interests before the national interest, and I firmly believe they would take any opportunity to shift the blame elsewhere (Corbyn et al).

May's belligerence knows no bounds, her legacy is all she cares about, even if that leaves the country up the proverbial ****creek without a paddle.

[JeMeSouviens]

It stinks of the Tories trying to lay the blame for this mess at Corbyn and the Labour Party's door.

I'd be incredibly wary of getting involved in this.

I think Labour have to get involved but have eyes in the back of their heads. She is completely untrustworthy and will pull just about any trick she can get away with. No deal and blame Labour would be fine I suspect. In fact if none of the cabinet Brexiter idiots resign tonight or tomorrow, that’s probably what we’re looking at.

[Chorley Hibee]

Not a fan of her by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems she sees this for what it really is too:

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1113132893214310405?s=19

[Chorley Hibee]

Quote from Robert Peston:

This is @theresa_may and Cabinet trying to shift to Labour responsibility for a no-deal Brexit on 12 April. PM says it is no deal unless Labour negotiates responsibly.

[JeMeSouviens]

Quote from Robert Peston:

This is @theresa_may and Cabinet trying to shift to Labour responsibility for a no-deal Brexit on 12 April. PM says it is no deal unless Labour negotiates responsibly.

Where “responsibly” means “more or less agrees with me”.

[Callum_62]

Quote from Robert Peston:

This is @theresa_may and Cabinet trying to shift to Labour responsibility for a no-deal Brexit on 12 April. PM says it is no deal unless Labour negotiates responsibly.

She didnt say that in her speech. She says the will seek an extension “until a deal is agreed”

If cant get consensus with labour then various options will be put to Parliament in binding indicative votes


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[ronaldo7]

Difference here is she has taken no deal off the table.

This is certainly different from the talks a few weeks ago

Suspect we will end up with a CU. Its probably the easiest and quickest way to get it done. Gets rid of FOM, which im sure they really want to keep the leave voting public happy


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She's testing the water, once again. How many Labour MP's will back her withdrawal agreement v how many Brexiteers will vote the deal down.

She's hoping Jeremy brings more of his pals to the party rather than having to deal with the ERG.

Lets hope Jeremy sticks to his guns and his parties conference manifesto.

[JeMeSouviens]

Forgive me, but what sort of agreement can may and Corbyn come up with that involves not changing her deal?

Surely the only thing Corbyn would agree to was a second referendum?

WA wouldn’t change. PD would be changed/fleshed out probably to at least include permanent CU.

Contrary to May’s usual robotic soundbites, the content of the PD does change the context of the WA.

With current PD, the NI backstop is 99.9% certain to be in force for years if not decades. If the PD changed to reflect Norway+ then the backstop becomes what it purports to be: a short sticking plaster if negotiations slightly overrun the transition.

[JeMeSouviens]

She's testing the water, once again. How many Labour MP's will back her withdrawal agreement v how many Brexiteers will vote the deal down.

She's hoping Jeremy brings more of his pals to the party rather than having to deal with the ERG.

Lets hope Jeremy sticks to his guns and his parties conference manifesto.

JC won’t be going alone. I would imagine Starmer will be there to babysit. Expect negotiations will break down tout de suite.

I am struggling badly to contain my cynicism about this.

[heretoday]

Well let's hope they get their heads together and come to some sort of agreement.
Everyone I speak to is heartily sick of the whole business and just want to get on with their lives.

[ronaldo7]

JC won’t be going alone. I would imagine Starmer will be there to babysit. Expect negotiations will break down tout de suite.

I am struggling badly to contain my cynicism about this.

When you've got Michael Gove quoting the page of the Labour party manifesto, where they said they'd leave the EU, you just know they're sharpening the blades.

[Colr]

It stinks of the Tories trying to lay the blame for this mess at Corbyn and the Labour Party's door.

I'd be incredibly wary of getting involved in this.

Probably have an eye on an election and want Labour as damaged as they are going into it

[Jack Hackett]

My hope atm is that a No Deal Brexit the night before the Euro Elections will be unacceptable to the EU and they insist on a longer extension and British participation. I think the talks with Corbyn are primarily her excuse to the EU for extension to 22nd May and allow her to kick the can right up to the point of no return... and also an opportunity to spread the political hurt.

[Chorley Hibee]

Probably have an eye on an election and want Labour as damaged as they are going into it

Undoubtedly.

[Ozyhibby]

Surely a no deal would mean a hard birder in ireland?


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DUP have no problem with a border in Ireland, I suspect a few of them would welcome it. What they can’t stand is a border in the Irish Sea.


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[James310]

Robert Peston tweets

According to ministers, defining issue was that if there was a no-deal Brexit “we’d have to go to direct rule in Northern Ireland” says one. “Disaster. Huge risk. Of all legacies, the break-up of the Union [of the UK], the worst for a PM. She’ll never do no deal now”.

[JeMeSouviens]

Robert Peston tweets

According to ministers, defining issue was that if there was a no-deal Brexit “we’d have to go to direct rule in Northern Ireland” says one. “Disaster. Huge risk. Of all legacies, the break-up of the Union [of the UK], the worst for a PM. She’ll never do no deal now”.

His follow up to that is a Brexit classic:

I am told that “Andrea [Leadsom] requested that we go ahead with the risk of direct rule but call it something else”.

:faf:

[stoneyburn hibs]

Could have been in a better place today had Labour not abstained on Cherry's motion.
That'll seem like understatement of the century after the PM has talks with JC, she'll make sure above all that the Tories come before anything.

[JeMeSouviens]

Following twitter chat generally:

- ERG absolutely spewing :wink:
- EU will not accept short extension unless existing WA is accepted and agreed by parliament and just needs enabling legislation.
- so May will have to actually ask for a longer extension but it could be cut short if a deal is agreed and passed by parliament before it expires.
- so she hopes to be out by may 22 and avoid euro elections but that will only be an aspiration.
- MV4 dead at last. If we ever see an MV again it will be a new PD.

Balance of opinion is that this is a genuine attempt to move as the Tories fear the blame for no deal and don’t fancy their chances in a GE. Apparently Tory donors have been tightening the purse strings while the shambles unfold.

This could all change in the face of big Brexiter backlash which is in the post ...

[Ozyhibby]

This is the break she always had to make. She either had to go no deal with the ERG or work with Labour. It will break the tories in two and she will be lucky to survive long enough to do it. If the ERG bring a no confidence motion she might need Labour votes to keep her in power. I can’t see it.


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[BroxburnHibee]

This is the break she always had to make. She either had to go no deal with the ERG or work with Labour. It will break the tories in two and she will be lucky to survive long enough to do it. If the ERG bring a no confidence motion she might need Labour votes to keep her in power. I can’t see it.


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Cant be a no confidence vote till next January

[Ozyhibby]

Cant be a no confidence vote till next January

There can be a no confidence vote in Parliament, just not in the Tory party. The ERG will try bring down the govt over this.


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[Hibrandenburg]

So to summarise: a bad deal is better than no deal.

[Callum_62]

So to summarise: a bad deal is better than no deal.

Yes, cause a no deal is the worst deal


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[Bristolhibby]

Snake May. 🐍

Beware.

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/04/02/no-10-statement-look-out-for-theresa-may-s-no-deal-trap

[Callum_62]

Youd like to think that meant longer extension but do the deal asap

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/42adbee66861e84f2a19c23530e70ad6.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

What is puzzling me is why go to Corbyn? Why not just not whip against either Boles or Clarke’s amendments and pass on of them? Corbyn is going to ask for more than Clarke for sure and possibly more than Boles. I really don’t think this is a genuine offer. I think it’s meant to try share the blame of failure before a GE.


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[lapsedhibee]

What is puzzling me is why go to Corbyn? Why not just not whip against either Boles or Clarke’s amendments and pass on of them? Corbyn is going to ask for more than Clarke for sure and possibly more than Boles. I really don’t think this is a genuine offer. I think it’s meant to try share the blame of failure before a GE.


:agree: Not believable that May has had some sort of quasi-religious conversion during her cabinet lock-in. More likely spent 7 hours agreeing with Brexiters that they should all pretend to be outraged the next day, but not actually resign.

[Moulin Yarns]

To see ourselves as others see us....


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/02/opinion/brexit-news.html

[JeMeSouviens]

What is puzzling me is why go to Corbyn? Why not just not whip against either Boles or Clarke’s amendments and pass on of them? Corbyn is going to ask for more than Clarke for sure and possibly more than Boles. I really don’t think this is a genuine offer. I think it’s meant to try share the blame of failure before a GE.


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I think if she’s going to rely on Lab votes then she needs Lab to whip them. Not just to get the new, improved MV through, there is a load of legislation that needs to follow. And she will have apoplectic ERGers trying to wreck everything. She needs Lab signed up and committed to see it through.

[JeMeSouviens]

:agree: Not believable that May has had some sort of quasi-religious conversion during her cabinet lock-in. More likely spent 7 hours agreeing with Brexiters that they should all pretend to be outraged the next day, but not actually resign.

Still a huge risk it’s a trap. A junior minister at the Welsh office has resigned. But no movement from the big guns of idiocy as yet.

[PeeJay]

I think it's quite funny that some posters on here think thre is some "reason" behind May's latest move ... :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

:agree: Not believable that May has had some sort of quasi-religious conversion during her cabinet lock-in. More likely spent 7 hours agreeing with Brexiters that they should all pretend to be outraged the next day, but not actually resign.

I'm suspicious, but surely that's unrealistic.

There are remainers on the cabinet who wouldn't allow such a move.

I sincerely hope.

[Callum_62]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/6df8d85684ccf93b6f67886e4927f396.jpg


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[James310]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/6df8d85684ccf93b6f67886e4927f396.jpg


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Seems it's not as bullet proof as some may think it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/03/cooper-letwin-brexit-no-deal-distraction

[Callum_62]

Seems it's not as bullet proof as some may think it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/03/cooper-letwin-brexit-no-deal-distraction

If the govt accepts it surey it cuts out some of that “distracted time”


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[Hibbyradge]

Seems it's not as bullet proof as some may think it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/03/cooper-letwin-brexit-no-deal-distraction

Do you think that the conservative party would use dirty tricks to deny the will of parliament?

It might be legally possible, but electorally?

[James310]

Do you think that the conservative party would use dirty tricks to deny the will of parliament?

It might be legally possible, but electorally?

Would hope not, May has said the government will deliver what Parliament decides on.

[Moulin Yarns]

Do you think that the conservative party would use dirty tricks to deny the will of parliament?

It might be legally possible, but electorally?

Leadsome said it was unprecedented that the government would allow parliament to dictate the terms of legislation (or something along these lines)

Taken from the BBC


She says the government is opposing the business motion because the legislation being tabled by MPs "breaks many years of precedent" and has "far-reaching implications" for Brexit, an international negotiation that requires the approval of 27 other sovereign nations.
It is, she argues, historically the role of the executive to propose legislation and to timetable its passage through Parliament and for MPs to scrutinise, amend, approve or reject that legislation.
These conventions are being broken, she says.
She says it is her job to ensure that proposed bills are "carefully considered from every angle" before being presented to Parliament and that there is "adequate time for scrutiny". She says this is clearly not the case here.

[Moulin Yarns]

The TIGs, and other smaller parties, SNP, Plaid, Green, and Libs are meeting now separately while Corbyn and May meeting - they will announce their next steps sometime around 4pm

[lapsedhibee]

I'm suspicious, but surely that's unrealistic.

There are remainers on the cabinet who wouldn't allow such a move.

I sincerely hope.

Tory Remainers may be getting quite near the point of thinking that a Jezza government is possible, and if the Bot has done one of her binary presentations where the options are Follow a devious plot of hers or Get Jezza as PM, who knows which way even the Remainiest Tory would lean? I don't see a bunch of them resigning if they believe that puts Corbyn into No 10.

[James310]

Shape of Corbyn/May Brexit deal clear: Customs union; permanent alignment of workers' rights, etc; Tory immigration plans watered down, but free movement ends; no second referendum; out before the Euro elections

[Callum_62]

Smaller opposition parties statement saying a peoples vote is a must


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[Moulin Yarns]

Smaller opposition parties statement saying a peoples vote is a must


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You mean the smaller parties plus the SNP :wink:

[lapsedhibee]

Been a suggestion that May's idea of an indicative votes process, when talks with Jezza break down, might be:

Alternative Vote method (preferences) with four options: May deal/Corbyn deal/revoke/no deal.

So, leaving aside the two options which she knows wouldn't be accepted by HoC, that leaves … her deal v. no deal. Whodathunk?

[SHODAN]

Been a suggestion that May's idea of an indicative votes process, when talks with Jezza break down, might be:

Alternative Vote method (preferences) with four options: May deal/Corbyn deal/revoke/no deal.

So, leaving aside the two options which she knows wouldn't be accepted by HoC, that leaves … her deal v. no deal. Whodathunk?

The deal will pass if the choice is her's, Corbyn's deal, or remain. If no deal is on there parliament will reject it. No reason to put no deal on there.

[lapsedhibee]

The deal will pass if the choice is her's, Corbyn's deal, or remain. If no deal is on there parliament will reject it. No reason to put no deal on there.

Suppose the reason to put it on there is that so May can argue that her deal has proved more popular than 'all' the other options.

[Moulin Yarns]

No more votes today, 310 - 310.Bercw casting vote against. Precedent from vote on the Maastricht Treaty. Oh the irony.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

IDSS saying that there are serious issues if you legitimise someone who is not fit to lead their party. The irony will be lost.

[Ozyhibby]

No more votes today, 310 - 310.Bercw casting vote against. Precedent from vote on the Maastricht Treaty. Oh the irony.

Cooper vote just passed 312-310


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[Ozyhibby]

Labour now saying a 2nd ref is a must from any negotiation.


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[James310]

Labour now saying a 2nd ref is a must from any negotiation.


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Which apparently was a big No at the cabinet yesterday.

Who compromises first!

[James310]

Saw this earlier.

This is worthy of Yes Prime Minister. Govt source on challenge of reaching agreement between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on a customs union: our position is a customs union but we don’t call it that. Labour’s position is not a customs union but they do call it that, so the source says the challenge is to persuade Jeremy Corbyn to sign up to Theresa May’s non customs union customs union and not call it a customs union. This would put the UK in a customs union with the EU which would then not be called a customs union.

[lapsedhibee]

Which apparently was a big No at the cabinet yesterday.

Who compromises first!

No-one compromises. Talks break down and May puts indicative votes to the House, which include her deal but don't include a second referendum or confirmatory vote.

[Callum_62]

Cooper bill passes by 5 votes

Final reading and vote expected about 10pm tonight

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/38dbad845e971f5571ccf3b99263488c.jpg


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[cabbageandribs1875]

seems like yonks since her cringe dancing days :ill:

https://www.facebook.com/john.stevenson.35175/videos/10212482735689429/

[JeMeSouviens]

Labour now saying a 2nd ref is a must from any negotiation.


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Not settled yet. Shadow cabinet split although Lab membership obv favours PV.

[James310]

Joanna Cherry and Stewart Mcdonald tweet saying it was unacceptable that Emily Thornberry and John McDonnel missed the vote earlier.

Emily Thornberry was in hospital with her child, John McDonnel was having a MRI scan.

No apologies.

Update: Stewart Mcdonald has now apologised.

[jonty]

William Cash telling parliament that we saved Europe twice...…..
dear god.

[cabbageandribs1875]

PM just said to @IanBlackfordMP "I can assure him that there are indeed strong voices for Scotland and they sit on the conservative benches"
#PMQs (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/pmqs?source=feed_text&epa=HASHTAG&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARCz3P_VA0W1YE2W8KChO0blPwMB_6dm tl0GCoHnMR8HFzH6HX4jfG8cpsfZIX3FKozrZCTlYu4fVa2Taj YL-KMu0Rj8mFn163Pfb6t50t7_Q7tkoHX8J5V3aMVO5HkF8BM6WGk 1vKN4HslS414nPr1EHpN6pVyoDtk2JNPOlLhlApDOwl9YLiIFA _LnT3Z1Ol1vDVmjpsXlr4Oban3ws1ROvCqClPdO0X67l6MwG0W L8Qo1EmjMzW9gcmciDTcBAYhv6ewhfn7TtQULR9PA0QvmCeowv C6OPzPTIzeD8MyVyoVl67HCHIqcMYxUeEReHESHTAypx-omRvfblwyG9Ms84gu1UeyBR9bhUnrV38UIIymtgj8f&__tn__=%2ANKH-R)



she can dance, she can do stand-up comedy, what a talented woman she is

[Callum_62]

Cooper bill defeated at committee stage - 304 to 313

[SHODAN]

Cooper bill defeated at committee stage - 304 to 313

Error by the Guardian - apparently an amendment that was rejected.

[Callum_62]

Error by the Guardian - apparently an amendment that was rejected.

indeed - jut seen that

Why would it fail on 3rd stage after passing through 2 stages?

A bit like the case against Adnan Sayed.... :rolleyes:

[Callum_62]

Cooper bill passes 313 to 312

Cooper making a great point of order acknowledging the tightness of the vote and the need to work with the government

Mark Francois immediately stands up and starts his usual ramblings - bringing down the reconciliatory tone of the increasingly impressive Yvette Cooper

[Hibbyradge]

Cooper bill passes 313 to 312

It's incredible that our government is making such macro decisions on such micro margins.

The country is a mess, and a joke.

[lapsedhibee]

Mark Francois immediately stands up and starts his usual ramblings

The Inflatable Idiot trying to make the point that when a vote is decided by a narrow margin it cannot confidently be said to represent the will of parliament.

Fair point on its own, but given his continuing statements about the 51.9% being "betrayed", I wonder … might he be the stupidest person ever to be elected MP? :dunno:

[Hibrandenburg]

The Inflatable Idiot trying to make the point that when a vote is decided by a narrow margin it cannot confidently be said to represent the will of parliament.

Fair point on its own, but given his continuing statements about the 51.9% being "betrayed", I wonder … might he be the stupidest person ever to be elected MP? :dunno:

Quoting the Bible doesn't enhance his credibility either.

[Jack]

The Inflatable Idiot trying to make the point that when a vote is decided by a narrow margin it cannot confidently be said to represent the will of parliament.

Fair point on its own, but given his continuing statements about the 51.9% being "betrayed", I wonder … might he be the stupidest person ever to be elected MP? :dunno:

Over the years stupid MPs could fill Wembley never mind Westminster! Being the most stupid among so many contenders would take some doing.

[hibsbollah]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2xK4KCYJsxc3pCpFBotNcD?si=eXaoiM_OQ_iNmercAHD5Jw

This is an astonishing story which seems to not be getting media attention. The Leave campaign's appeal against the Cambridge Analytic scandal has been quietly dropped. This means they've essentially admitted their guilt in illegally using £700,000 to outspend the Remain campaign during the ref. Money used to target voters through social media ads. But #10 is also implicated in using misleading information to smear and discredit the whistleblower? All while #10 was on the surface supporting Remain??:rolleyes:

In normal democratic times this would be a resigning/bringing down the government issue.

[Callum_62]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2xK4KCYJsxc3pCpFBotNcD?si=eXaoiM_OQ_iNmercAHD5Jw

This is an astonishing story which seems to not be getting media attention. The Leave campaign's appeal against the Cambridge Analytic scandal has been quietly dropped. This means they've essentially admitted their guilt in illegally using £700,000 to outspend the Remain campaign during the ref. Money used to target voters through social media ads. But #10 is also implicated in using misleading information to smear and discredit the whistleblower? All while #10 was on the surface supporting Remain??:rolleyes:

In normal democratic times this would be a resigning/bringing down the government issue.

It would certainly mean that if the Ref was legally binding it would be declared null and void


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[matty_f]

It would certainly mean that if the Ref was legally binding it would be declared null and void


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Very handy for the Brexiteers agitating to get Brexiteers through at all costs. Not so handy for those of us that have to live with the decision.

[Hibs Class]

Labour now saying a 2nd ref is a must from any negotiation.


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Shami Chakrabarti on the radio this morning talking this back - suggesting it was a possible means of breaking the deadlock (as would be a general election ) but that it was conceivable TM/JC could come up with a compromise that parliament could agree to and it wouldn't then need to go to a public vote

[grunt]

Shami Chakrabarti on the radio this morning talking this back - suggesting it was a possible means of breaking the deadlock (as would be a general election ) but that it was conceivable TM/JC could come up with a compromise that parliament could agree to and it wouldn't then need to go to a public voteOf course. Let's not involve the public in any decision that's going to affect them. I am so hacked off with the two main UK political parties at the moment.

[Hibbyradge]

Of course. Let's not involve the public in any decision that's going to affect them. I am so hacked off with the two main UK political parties at the moment.

Maybe they've learned their lesson from 2016 ...

[James310]

Of course. Let's not involve the public in any decision that's going to affect them. I am so hacked off with the two main UK political parties at the moment.

They public made the decision in the first place remember.

[jonty]

They public made the decision in the first place remember.

Based on lies and misinformation.
And only 38% of the public voted to leave.
By not voting the non voters implicitly wanted to stay.

[lapsedhibee]

Based on lies and misinformation.
And only 38% of the public voted to leave.
By not voting the non voters implicitly wanted to stay.
:tsk tsk:

[Bangkok Hibby]

Based on lies and misinformation.
And only 38% of the public voted to leave.
By not voting the non voters implicitly wanted to stay.

IF that's true then by not voting they got what they deserved