Brexit - what will happen next

[JeMeSouviens]

"Theresa's Triumph" says the Daily Mail, seemingly oblivious to the fact she's folded like a pack of cards to the ERG/DUP and has, as usual, raised the hardliners' expectations to a ridiculous level based on a wildly unrealistic proposition that just isn't going to happen. Of course, the few in the ERG capable of rubbing 2 rational thoughts together know this and are delighted they're another few steps towards the cliff.

No deal feels like a likely scenario now.

[Hibbyradge]

Hate to say i've been telling people. :boo hoo:

Most still obliviously unaware of where we're heading or what it actually means.

I've always been clear that dealing with the USA would mean significant lowering of health regulations and standards.

What's also worrying is that people think we'll get a favourable terms from them. We won't.

Trump will have us by the short and curlies (quite a genteel expression for the message board, don't you think?) and we'll be fleeced.

MAGA means what it says. It's not MAGA+UK.

[JeMeSouviens]

Oh, I meant James :wink:

James 3:10 - "Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing."

That's actually quite clever. Respect to our Tory pal, big J.

[Requ]

I am from Spain and have friends who live here and originally they are from London. They moved to Malaga 5 years ago and sold their flat in UK. Now they are confused and don't know what to do. Because if Brexit happens than they will need to renew their residence every 3 months, which means that they have to go to the police and show certain documents and so on. They even thought of buying property in UK (https://tranio.com/united-kingdom/) again but prices went up significantly. So now they are waiting if Brexit will take place or not.

[JeMeSouviens]

I am from Spain and have friends who live here and originally they are from London. They moved to Malaga 5 years ago and sold their flat in UK. Now they are confused and don't know what to do. Because if Brexit happens than they will need to renew their residence every 3 months, which means that they have to go to the police and show certain documents and so on. They even thought of buying property in UK (https://tranio.com/united-kingdom/) again but prices went up significantly. So now they are waiting if Brexit will take place or not.

Bienvenido.

Tell them they are dirty foreign queue jumping citizens of nowhere and can gtf for all I care, Love, Theresa x

[Bristolhibby]

This is all carefully crafted to paint the EU as the big bad unrelenting monster and plucky ole Britain being forced into No Deal because of the big bad EU.

This will be used as a defence mechanism by the Tories at the next election. They will say, “I know your life is terrible, but it’s because the EU made it that way”.

I hope the public are smart enough to see through that. The EU is sticking side by side with one of its members (Ireland). It’s the U.K. that voted to leave. Not the EU kicking us out.

J

[lapsedhibee]

This is all carefully crafted to paint the EU as the big bad unrelenting monster and plucky ole Britain being forced into No Deal because of the big bad EU.

This will be used as a defence mechanism by the Tories at the next election. They will say, “I know your life is terrible, but it’s because the EU made it that way”.

I hope the public are smart enough to see through that. The EU is sticking side by side with one of its members (Ireland). It’s the U.K. that voted to leave. Not the EU kicking us out.

J

If you've been lapping up the Mail and Express BS about the EU for the last 30 years, though, you're unlikely to suddenly see things as they are just because an election's been called. "Theresa's Triumph" FFS :bitchy:

[hibsbollah]

This is all carefully crafted to paint the EU as the big bad unrelenting monster and plucky ole Britain being forced into No Deal because of the big bad EU.

This will be used as a defence mechanism by the Tories at the next election. They will say, “I know your life is terrible, but it’s because the EU made it that way”.

I hope the public are smart enough to see through that. The EU is sticking side by side with one of its members (Ireland). It’s the U.K. that voted to leave. Not the EU kicking us out.

J

I doubt it.

The public are becoming more entrenched in their separate positions. That means shrill language is going to appeal to politicians desperate to placate their constituents.
Look at the polling. 45% now think staying in the EU is the best solution. But 28% now think No Deal is the preferred outcome. The preferred outcome. Let that sink in. The anti fact movement is winning the argument amongst those who are too exhausted by this farce to really care or pay attention anymore. Mays deal has 13% support, and the 'dont knows' which presumably includes Corbyns customs union soft brexit and any subset including the Norway plus model is at 14%.You gov. last week. These 'moderate options' arent winning the argument on the doorstep.

There is a groundswell of support for Brexit at any cost amongst the UK population. Its facetious to pretend there isnt.

[Hibrandenburg]

Bienvenido.

Tell them they are dirty foreign queue jumping citizens of nowhere and can gtf for all I care, Love, Theresa x

Don't forget to hound their kids out of school and smear human excrement through their letter box.

[Bristolhibby]

I doubt it.

The public are becoming more entrenched in their separate positions. That means shrill language is going to appeal to politicians desperate to placate their constituents.
Look at the polling. 45% now think staying in the EU is the best solution. But 28% now think No Deal is the preferred outcome. The preferred outcome. Let that sink in. The anti fact movement is winning the argument amongst those who are too exhausted by this farce to really care or pay attention anymore. Mays deal has 13% support, and the 'dont knows' which presumably includes Corbyns customs union soft brexit and any subset including the Norway plus model is at 14%.You gov. last week. These 'moderate options' arent winning the argument on the doorstep.

There is a groundswell of support for Brexit at any cost amongst the UK population. Its facetious to pretend there isnt.

Ah well. **** us.

It’s our bed, let’s lie in it.

J

[JeMeSouviens]

I doubt it.

The public are becoming more entrenched in their separate positions. That means shrill language is going to appeal to politicians desperate to placate their constituents.
Look at the polling. 45% now think staying in the EU is the best solution. But 28% now think No Deal is the preferred outcome. The preferred outcome. Let that sink in. The anti fact movement is winning the argument amongst those who are too exhausted by this farce to really care or pay attention anymore. Mays deal has 13% support, and the 'dont knows' which presumably includes Corbyns customs union soft brexit and any subset including the Norway plus model is at 14%.You gov. last week. These 'moderate options' arent winning the argument on the doorstep.

There is a groundswell of support for Brexit at any cost amongst the UK population. Its facetious to pretend there isnt.

A groundswell implies it's rapidly growing, no?

There is a hardcore 40% or so of the electorate that want to leave:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Un ion_membership_referendum#Post-referendum_polling

But there has been a definite perceptible shift to remain. There hasn't been a poll with leave ahead since last March. And that's with both "main" parties telling them it's the only option.

[SHODAN]

Scottish independence won't happen because we won't get a referendum from the UK Government if there is any chance of Yes winning.

[hibsbollah]

A groundswell implies it's rapidly growing, no?

There is a hardcore 40% or so of the electorate that want to leave:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Un ion_membership_referendum#Post-referendum_polling

But there has been a definite perceptible shift to remain. There hasn't been a poll with leave ahead since last March. And that's with both "main" parties telling them it's the only option.

You're confusing 'No deal Leave' supporters with all 'Leave' supporters. The No deal Leave' support has increased at the expense of the soft Brexit supporters.

Less chance of compromise, more chance of Gammon Rage and Home Team going all Urban Commando on us if Ref2 is called.

[Slavers]

You're confusing 'No deal Leave' supporters with all 'Leave' supporters. The No deal Leave' support has increased at the expense of the soft Brexit supporters.

Less chance of compromise, more chance of Gammon Rage and Home Team going all Urban Commando on us if Ref2 is called.

It's not me who has a problem with democracy and election results, its you and the other intolerant's. If indyref 2 is called id respect the decision and the outcome of the election, unlike you.

[hibsbollah]

It's not me who has a problem with democracy and election results, its you and the other intolerant's. If indyref 2 is called id respect the decision and the outcome of the election, unlike you.

Thats right. Id take to the streets. Id go right up to that Wetherspoons Pub chain owner guy and do a big dump on his doorstep. And plant a tiny EU flag on top of it on a cocktail stick.

[JeMeSouviens]

You're confusing 'No deal Leave' supporters with all 'Leave' supporters. The No deal Leave' support has increased at the expense of the soft Brexit supporters.

Less chance of compromise, more chance of Gammon Rage and Home Team going all Urban Commando on us if Ref2 is called.

Right, I see what you mean. I think in any ref2, Remain vs Deal would be a safer bet than Remain vs No Deal because Leavers are meh about the deal but they have a collective raging hard on for No Deal. For some of them, that's the ends (a low tax, low regulation economy) justifying the means (a few hundred K proles out of work or dead, wgaf?) For others it's like some sort of bizarre D day re-enactment society. Truly mental.

[Slavers]

Thats right. Id take to the streets. Id go right up to that Wetherspoons Pub chain owner guy and do a big dump on his doorstep. And plant a tiny EU flag on top of it on a cocktail stick.

That does not surprise me at all.

[Fife-Hibee]

I hope the public are smart enough to see through that.

https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/voices/2018/01/14/17257968/meh_unimpressed-DMID1-5dgcer9nr-500x324.gif

[ronaldo7]

I remember, back in the day when Morgan Stanley were moving a few jobs to the continent, and some on here were saying, och, it's ok, it'll be fine, it's only a few jobs.

After the thousands of jobs which have now moved from the UK, are the leavers/not bothered hibees, now changing their minds?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47060676

[Callum_62]

I remember, back in the day when Morgan Stanley were moving a few jobs to the continent, and some on here were saying, och, it's ok, it'll be fine, it's only a few jobs.

After the thousands of jobs which have now moved from the UK, are the leavers/not bothered hibees, now changing their minds?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47060676

PROJECT FEAR.

Will be the excuse im sure


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[Slavers]

I remember, back in the day when Morgan Stanley were moving a few jobs to the continent, and some on here were saying, och, it's ok, it'll be fine, it's only a few jobs.

After the thousands of jobs which have now moved from the UK, are the leavers/not bothered hibees, now changing their minds?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47060676

I think with employment running at record levels within the UK then the need to panic is less compared to the I have to pee pee my pants hysterical brexit denier Hibs fans.

[RyeSloan]

I remember, back in the day when Morgan Stanley were moving a few jobs to the continent, and some on here were saying, och, it's ok, it'll be fine, it's only a few jobs.

After the thousands of jobs which have now moved from the UK, are the leavers/not bothered hibees, now changing their minds?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47060676

Such money moves are largely legal umbrellas for the funds sitting underneath.

The article even states few jobs will be impacted and Reuters had a story recently that illuminated just how little movement there has been re finance jobs

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1PP1ZB

And only today Bloomberg are reporting an agreement between the ESMA and the FCA on the cooperation on the oversight of investment funds which the FCA states will minimise disruption for the investment management sector, credit agencies and trade repositories.

So has there and is there an impact? Yeah sure. It is on any meaningful scale in terms for jobs in finance, seems not.

[ronaldo7]

Such money moves are largely legal umbrellas for the funds sitting underneath.

The article even states few jobs will be impacted and Reuters had a story recently that illuminated just how little movement there has been re finance jobs

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1PP1ZB

And only today Bloomberg are reporting an agreement between the ESMA and the FCA on the cooperation on the oversight of investment funds which the FCA states will minimise disruption for the investment management sector, credit agencies and trade repositories.

So has there and is there an impact? Yeah sure. It is on any meaningful scale in terms for jobs in finance, seems not.

I know it did, but the bigger picture is about ALL the jobs, and not just in finance.

The question was, are those who wanted Brexit happy about how it's turning out (I know it's not finished yet), but are those OUT voters happy?

[RyeSloan]

I know it did, but the bigger picture is about ALL the jobs, and not just in finance.

The question was, are those who wanted Brexit happy about how it's turning out (I know it's not finished yet), but are those OUT voters happy?

Fair enough. You did reference Morgan Stanley and link to a finance job story tho ;-)

Personally I’m not entirely sure what impact on jobs you are referencing.

Record numbers in work, record low unemployment would suggest there hasn’t been much overall impact at all...yet.

That’s not to say there hasn’t been an impact it’s just there is very little evidence of one at a macro level I can see.


If your question was a general one on how Brexit is turning out....surely in, outs and maybes are all in agreement it’s been a total mess of a process.

[ronaldo7]

I think with employment running at record levels within the UK then the need to panic is less compared to the I have to pee pee my pants hysterical brexit denier Hibs fans.

You could maybe tell me where they sell those tena ladies pants, just to be sure.:wink:

[Slavers]

You could maybe tell me where they sell those tena ladies pants, just to be sure.:wink:

You can buy Tena pads for men!!

In the event of a vote for scottish independence and the resulting capital flight from Scotland into England, the moving of head offices from Scotland to England, will you still be posting links asking the people of Scotland are they still happy with their vote?

[McSwanky]

Record numbers in work, record low unemployment would suggest there hasn’t been much overall impact at all...yet.

That's an interesting line, and one which the Tories like to draw attention to.

Can you tell me how exactly "in work" and "unemployment" are defined?

[Callum_62]

You can buy Tena pads for men!!

In the event of a vote for scottish independence and the resulting capital flight from Scotland into England, the moving of head offices from Scotland to England, will you still be posting links asking the people of Scotland are they still happy with their vote?

If buts and maybes really

If we are fast tracked back into the EU....

And lets face it BREXIT was sold by the winning side as basically a no lose situation

Its proving far from it unfortunately


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[ronaldo7]

You can buy Tena pads for men!!

In the event of a vote for scottish independence and the resulting capital flight from Scotland into England, the moving of head offices from Scotland to England, will you still be posting links asking the people of Scotland are they still happy with their vote?

I'm too young for all that pish. Get back to me in 25 yrs:wink:

On your question, with Scotland in the EU, and England as a wee insignificant rump on the bottom of Britain, the capital flight will be incoming to Scotland. :aok:

[Slavers]

I'm too young for all that pish. Get back to me in 25 yrs:wink:

On your question, with Scotland in the EU, and England as a wee insignificant rump on the bottom of Britain, the capital flight will be incoming to Scotland. :aok:

Your so bitter and it clouds your judgement.

[ronaldo7]

Your so bitter and it clouds your judgement.

Bitter?

Pray tell.

[Slavers]

Bitter?

Pray tell.

Referring to England as an insignificant wee rump. That's just sheer bitterness towards England, the population of England is huge and one of the most densely populated countries in Europe and you dismiss it as an insignificant wee rump.

That's just delusion on your part, the power of England and the UK is vastly under estimated by all the Scottish Nationalists, the UK is going to prosper after we get Brexit and you will have to sit and watch as all your scare stories are shown up for what they are... guff.

[RyeSloan]

That's an interesting line, and one which the Tories like to draw attention to.

Can you tell me how exactly "in work" and "unemployment" are defined?

Google is your friend.

But for starters try this:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment

You could also add the fact that wages are running in front of inflation which is discussed here (alongside confirmation of the employment figures)

https://fullfact.org/economy/wage-growth-only-fastest-decade-if-you-ignore-inflation/

Finally you can look at number of vacancies..also running extremely high so to reference R7’s original challenge there is little or no macro evidence of Brexit on the job market:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/timeseries/jp9z/unem

[ronaldo7]

Referring to England as an insignificant wee rump. That's just sheer bitterness towards England, the population of England is huge and one of the most densely populated countries in Europe and you dismiss it as an insignificant wee rump.

That's just delusion on your part, the power of England and the UK is vastly under estimated by all the Scottish Nationalists, the UK is going to prosper after we get Brexit and you will have to sit and watch as all your scare stories are shown up for what they are... guff.

Cheers Nigel.:greengrin


They don't like it up em, Captain Mainwaring. :faf:

[Callum_62]

Referring to England as an insignificant wee rump. That's just sheer bitterness towards England, the population of England is huge and one of the most densely populated countries in Europe and you dismiss it as an insignificant wee rump.

That's just delusion on your part, the power of England and the UK is vastly under estimated by all the Scottish Nationalists, the UK is going to prosper after we get Brexit and you will have to sit and watch as all your scare stories are shown up for what they are... guff.

You really believe all the “BREXIT” stories are scare stories?

You have no concerns about the pending no deal brexit?


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[hibsbollah]

Google is your friend.

But for starters try this:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment

You could also add the fact that wages are running in front of inflation which is discussed here (alongside confirmation of the employment figures)

https://fullfact.org/economy/wage-growth-only-fastest-decade-if-you-ignore-inflation/

Finally you can look at number of vacancies..also running extremely high so to reference R7’s original challenge there is little or no macro evidence of Brexit on the job market:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/timeseries/jp9z/unem

1. Employment is so high because of the explosion in the gig economy, record levels of part time work and how hard it is to get benefits these days.

2. Average wages have recently just crept in front of inflation, after being on a clear downward trajectory since the Brexit vote. It's still a dismal situation for wages in the UK.

3. Vacancy levels this high is a sign of economic weakness. Not enough skills in the economy which is only going to get worse with the reduction in EU workers choosing to come here since the Brexit vote.

[Slavers]

Cheers Nigel.:greengrin


They don't like it up em, Captain Mainwaring. :faf:

That's really all there is left now - name calling and getting it up em!

It will take more than that and a hell of a lot more smileys before those tactics win you Scottish independence.

[hibsbollah]

That's really all there is left now - name calling and getting it up em!

It will take more than that and a hell of a lot more smileys before those tactics win you Scottish independence.

He probably didn't have any expectation that his post in itself was going to achieve Scottish independence.

[Callum_62]

He probably didn't have any expectation that his post in itself was going to achieve Scottish independence.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji106][emoji2532]


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[Slavers]

He probably didn't have any expectation that his post in itself was going to achieve Scottish independence.

Fair point!

I just wanted to point how out bitter he was as he could not see it.

[ronaldo7]

That's really all there is left now - name calling and getting it up em!

It will take more than that and a hell of a lot more smileys before those tactics win you Scottish independence.

You're just bitter, and because of that, it clouds your judgement.:wink:

[RyeSloan]

1. Employment is so high because of the explosion in the gig economy, record levels of part time work and how hard it is to get benefits these days.

2. Average wages have recently just crept in front of inflation, after being on a clear downward trajectory since the Brexit vote. It's still a dismal situation for wages in the UK.

3. Vacancy levels this high is a sign of economic weakness. Not enough skills in the economy which is only going to get worse with the reduction in EU workers choosing to come here since the Brexit vote.

1. That may well be so but not something that can be definitive from the headline numbers. But if it so then that’s a trend that started well before Brexit and it could be argued has been well supported by record immigration numbers providing a ready supply of cheap labour. The fact is though employment numbers are at an all time high so in relation to the question it is a relevant number to quote.

2. Not entirely true. Wage growth has been in an upward run from the start of 2017. Clearly the impact to the pound from the vote and the subsequent spike in inflation impacted the ‘real terms’ view but none the less the real terms view was positive for the two years prior to the vote and is now back in front. So you could easily argue the impact of the vote was a temporary factor that has now worked out the system as wages carry on climbing.

3. Again that’s one take on it. Another is that the underlying economy is still looking to hire and that looming Brexit has not had the devastating impact on jobs or companies or their desire to hire as was suggested would happen (remember the Treasuries forecast of deep recession).

As ever the numbers can be interpreted a number of ways but R7 was asking about the impact on jobs of Brexit and the answer is pretty clear in that there is record number of jobs, very low unemployment numbers and a strong hiring market...I’m quite sure if those stats were reversed you would be coming on here blaming Brexit for the malaise.

[hibsbollah]

1. That may well be so but not something that can be definitive from the headline numbers. But if it so then that’s a trend that started well before Brexit and it could be argued has been well supported by record immigration numbers providing a ready supply of cheap labour. The fact is though employment numbers are at an all time high so in relation to the question it is a relevant number to quote.

2. Not entirely true. Wage growth has been in an upward run from the start of 2017. Clearly the impact to the pound from the vote and the subsequent spike in inflation impacted the ‘real terms’ view but none the less the real terms view was positive for the two years prior to the vote and is now back in front. So you could easily argue the impact of the vote was a temporary factor that has now worked out the system as wages carry on climbing.

3. Again that’s one take on it. Another is that the underlying economy is still looking to hire and that looming Brexit has not had the devastating impact on jobs or companies or their desire to hire as was suggested would happen (remember the Treasuries forecast of deep recession).

As ever the numbers can be interpreted a number of ways but R7 was asking about the impact on jobs of Brexit and the answer is pretty clear in that there is record number of jobs, very low unemployment numbers and a strong hiring market...I’m quite sure if those stats were reversed you would be coming on here blaming Brexit for the malaise.

But they are not reversed. So you are only surmising.

The UK will continue to show reasonable employment numbers when there are so many part time jobs. The UK will continue to show low unemployment figures when it is so difficult to access the non work benefits system. And the UK will continue to have high numbers of unfilled vacancies when we don't train our workforce.

None of these things mean the economy is doing well.

[RyeSloan]

But they are not reversed. So you are only surmising.

The UK will continue to show reasonable employment numbers when there are so many part time jobs. The UK will continue to show low unemployment figures when it is so difficult to access the non work benefits system. And the UK will continue to have high numbers of unfilled vacancies when we don't train our workforce.

None of these things mean the economy is doing well.

Ahh let’s not get onto how to measure if an economy is doing well! [emoji23]

We can slice and dice the quality of jobs and the numbers in full time work forever more I suppose but the bare facts are that most measures are near or at long term highs and lows when looking at people in work, people out of work, numbers of people economically inactive and the opportunity to get work.

On a broad brush view that’s got to be better than the opposite...surely even you can agree to that!

Oh and the numbers were simply given as an answer to the impact of Brexit to date on jobs not as a critique on all things labour market as undoubtedly there is at least some merit in your points (I’m not going to argue otherwise even if they do come across as a bit glass half empty in their perspective!).

But as I said before it would appear that so far Brexit jobageddon has not transpired to be true.

[Hibrandenburg]

Referring to England as an insignificant wee rump. That's just sheer bitterness towards England, the population of England is huge and one of the most densely populated countries in Europe and you dismiss it as an insignificant wee rump.

That's just delusion on your part, the power of England and the UK is vastly under estimated by all the Scottish Nationalists, the UK is going to prosper after we get Brexit and you will have to sit and watch as all your scare stories are shown up for what they are... guff.

I admire your delusion err I mean optimism.

[Fife-Hibee]

Referring to Scotland as an insignificant wee rump. That's just sheer bitterness towards Scotland, the population of Scotland is full of innovation and talent and has a rich abundance of vital resources in Europe and you dismiss it as an insignificant wee rump.

That's just delusion on your part, the power of Scotland and the EU is vastly under estimated by all the British Nationalists, the EU is going to prosper after we get Scottish Independence and you will have to sit and watch as all your scare stories are shown up for what they are... guff.

Fixed that for you pal. :thumbsup:

[Fife-Hibee]

Ahh let’s not get onto how to measure if an economy is doing well! [emoji23]

Of course not. It wouldn't suit the agenda of keeping Scotland part of the UK outwith the EU if people actually knew the details.

[RyeSloan]

Of course not. It wouldn't suit the agenda of keeping Scotland part of the UK outwith the EU if people actually knew the details.

What secret details are you alluding to now?

More £14bn in ‘cuts’ or the devious plans to turn the UK into a Luxembourg tax haven or the flotilla of chlorinated chickens hiding in the Atlantic ready to sail in on Brexit day?

[Fife-Hibee]

What secret details are you alluding to now?

More £14bn in ‘cuts’ or the devious plans to turn the UK into a Luxembourg tax haven or the flotilla of chlorinated chickens hiding in the Atlantic ready to sail in on Brexit day?

You were getting on at me the other day about lack of detail. But in this thread, you're telling people not to bother about details. Which one is it? :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

You were getting on at me the other day about lack of detail. But in this thread, you're telling people not to bother about details. Which one is it? :greengrin

You’ve clearly missed my response to McS****y then when they asked for definition and detail to support my initial post which included a number of links to a detailed underlying data and methodologies to do just that.

All done without any alluding to secrets or agendas or keeping whole populations and nations in the dark on nefarious plans.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190202/0f71659e2920ee8f147282ebe5a7e753.jpg
The Tories have come with a solution at last. [emoji23]


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[JeMeSouviens]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190202/0f71659e2920ee8f147282ebe5a7e753.jpg
The Tories have come with a solution at last. [emoji23]


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Apart from the fact that CU membership is required of EU members since the Lisbon treaty, great idea! :rolleyes:

[Hibbyradge]

That's really all there is left now - name calling and getting it up em!



Says the man who calls anyone and everyone Satanists and Luciferians.

Love it.

[Slavers]

Says the man who calls anyone and everyone Satanists and Luciferians.

Love it.

Truth be told you are very lucky to have someone who is calling out the Satanists and Luciferians.

Here is your favorite political family paying homage to the Church of Satan - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chelsea-clinton-church-satan/

[Hiber-nation]

Truth be told you are very lucky to have someone who is calling out the Satanists and Luciferians.

Here is your favorite political family paying homage to the Church of Satan - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chelsea-clinton-church-satan/

I think that website is summed up by their headline "Is Disney’s Goofy Character Actually a Cow?".

[RyeSloan]

I think that website is summed up by their headline "Is Disney’s Goofy Character Actually a Cow?".

I’ve seen some threads on here go off topic but this takes some beating [emoji23]

[Hibbyradge]

Truth be told you are very lucky to have someone who is calling out the Satanists and Luciferians.

Here is your favorite political family paying homage to the Church of Satan - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chelsea-clinton-church-satan/

Grow up, man, and stop posting rubbish.

[Hiber-nation]

I’ve seen some threads on here go off topic but this takes some beating [emoji23]

And that was one of the more sensible headlines :greengrin

[McSwanky]

paying homage to the Church of Satan

:eyes:

You did read the article didn't you?

[Rocky]

:eyes:

You did read the article didn't you?

Using a Snopes article debunking the theory that Chelsea Clinton is a Satan worshipper to support the theory that Chelsea Clinton is a Satan worshipper is certainly a novel strategy. But very much in tune with our times.

[Smartie]

Truth be told you are very lucky to have someone who is calling out the Satanists and Luciferians.

Here is your favorite political family paying homage to the Church of Satan - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chelsea-clinton-church-satan/

Ok, I'm probably giving this a bit more credibility than it truly deserves, but I do like to hear alternative views and be challenged by them from time to time so I read the article through.

Near the bottom there are the following couple of lines -

"There are two ways to take that last tweet (“It’s been so long! Happy New Year!”). One is in the spirit in which it was obviously intended, namely as a jocular, tongue-in-cheek acknowledgment of the absurdity of sharing a Twitter thread with the likes of @Hooters and @ChurchofSatan.

The other is to pretend it might actually mean Clinton is a devil worshiper."

Could you please provide me with a compelling, sensible answer explaining why Chelsea Clinton's tweet might suggest the latter rather than the former, as the earlier explanation makes more sense to me?

[Just Alf]

Ok, I'm probably giving this a bit more credibility than it truly deserves, but I do like to hear alternative views and be challenged by them from time to time so I read the article through.

Near the bottom there is the following couple of paragraphs -

"There are two ways to take that last tweet (“It’s been so long! Happy New Year!”). One is in the spirit in which it was obviously intended, namely as a jocular, tongue-in-cheek acknowledgment of the absurdity of sharing a Twitter thread with the likes of @Hooters and @ChurchofSatan.

The other is to pretend it might actually mean Clinton is a devil worshiper."

Could you please provide me with a compelling, sensible answer explaining why Chelsea Clinton's tweet might suggest the latter rather than the former, as the earlier explanation makes more sense to me?Oh oh!

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[Hibbyradge]

Exclusive: Secret No-Deal Brexit Plan To Slash Tariffs On All Imports
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-secret-plan-to-slash-tariffs-on-all-post-brexit-imports_uk_5c587b08e4b00187b553da30

[Slavers]

Ok, I'm probably giving this a bit more credibility than it truly deserves, but I do like to hear alternative views and be challenged by them from time to time so I read the article through.

Near the bottom there are the following couple of lines -

"There are two ways to take that last tweet (“It’s been so long! Happy New Year!”). One is in the spirit in which it was obviously intended, namely as a jocular, tongue-in-cheek acknowledgment of the absurdity of sharing a Twitter thread with the likes of @Hooters and @ChurchofSatan.

The other is to pretend it might actually mean Clinton is a devil worshiper."

Could you please provide me with a compelling, sensible answer explaining why Chelsea Clinton's tweet might suggest the latter rather than the former, as the earlier explanation makes more sense to me?

Well the explanation is in the detail of the conversation. Chelsea Clinton goes onto state that all religions need to be respected and puts the church of Satan in the same bracket as Christianity and her husband religion Judaism.

So she is normalizing the church of Satan and trying to elivate to the status Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

The church of Satan is a growing counter culture in California and is seen to be sticking two fingers up to the conservative Christian culture.

However there are pics of most world leaders throwing up the baphomet. This includes Hillary and Bill, now you might dismiss this as nonsense but why are world leaders constantly using these hand signals when communicating to the public. They are showing there alligance.

Further down the line you are going to see a call for all the religions to merge this has already been commented on BY the pope and others.

Then this new age religion will be promoted and this new religion will be the doctrine of Lucifer.

Cashless society total control by the luciferian banking and political elites. A one world government and religion.

[Lendo]

Exclusive: Secret No-Deal Brexit Plan To Slash Tariffs On All Imports
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-secret-plan-to-slash-tariffs-on-all-post-brexit-imports_uk_5c587b08e4b00187b553da30

Holy ****. That can't be true.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I think with employment running at record levels within the UK then the need to panic is less compared to the I have to pee pee my pants hysterical brexit denier Hibs fans.

You don't really believe this myth do you? Somebody on a zero hours contract working 1 hour is not in work.

Add in the fact that food bank use, in work poverty etc are on the rise and it tells you all you need to know about these stats.

[Fife-Hibee]

Exclusive: Secret No-Deal Brexit Plan To Slash Tariffs On All Imports
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-secret-plan-to-slash-tariffs-on-all-post-brexit-imports_uk_5c587b08e4b00187b553da30

It's all being done in collaboration with the US. Our market is going to be flooded with "food" you wouldn't feed to your dog.

[Just Alf]

Well the explanation is in the detail of the conversation. Chelsea Clinton goes onto state that all religions need to be respected and puts the church of Satan in the same bracket as Christianity and her husband religion Judaism.

So she is normalizing the church of Satan and trying to elivate to the status Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

The church of Satan is a growing counter culture in California and is seen to be sticking two fingers up to the conservative Christian culture.

However there are pics of most world leaders throwing up the baphomet. This includes Hillary and Bill, now you might dismiss this as nonsense but why are world leaders constantly using these hand signals when communicating to the public. They are showing there alligance.

Further down the line you are going to see a call for all the religions to merge this has already been commented on BY the pope and others.

Then this new age religion will be promoted and this new religion will be the doctrine of Lucifer.

Cashless society total control by the luciferian banking and political elites. A one world government and religion.


"pics of most world leaders throwing up the baphomet" ...... surely we're not going to go over this again?... that's been debunked by simply comparing the original pics as reported at the time and the later ones that appear on the conspiracy sites, there were even some posted on a thread here about a year or 2 ago, I guess you weren't involved although it would have been eight up your street I think.

[Hibbyradge]

Bonkers.

[Hibrandenburg]

Saw a clip of "Til death us do part" today. It's not funny anymore because 52% of the UK have really turned into Alf Garnett.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Bonkers.

Credit where it's due, consistently bonkers.

[lapsedhibee]

Saw a clip of "Til death us do part" today. It's not funny anymore because 52% of the UK have really turned into Alf Garnett.

They haven't turned into him. They always were him, it's just that some complete fool just recently gave him the opportunity to decide the country's future.

[Moulin Yarns]

Well the explanation is in the detail of the conversation. Chelsea Clinton goes onto state that all religions need to be respected and puts the church of Satan in the same bracket as Christianity and her husband religion Judaism.

So she is normalizing the church of Satan and trying to elivate to the status Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

The church of Satan is a growing counter culture in California and is seen to be sticking two fingers up to the conservative Christian culture.

However there are pics of most world leaders throwing up the baphomet. This includes Hillary and Bill, now you might dismiss this as nonsense but why are world leaders constantly using these hand signals when communicating to the public. They are showing there alligance.

Further down the line you are going to see a call for all the religions to merge this has already been commented on BY the pope and others.

Then this new age religion will be promoted and this new religion will be the doctrine of Lucifer.

Cashless society total control by the luciferian banking and political elites. A one world government and religion.

Considering a lot of the world problems are due to different religions, maybe unification isn't such a bad idea.

Not forgetting that the cashless society won't work. Story today of a man that died with a fortune in bitcoin, nobody can access it as they don't have the password.

[Fife-Hibee]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/05/maybot-random-speech-generator-gets-stuck-on-repeat?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR0MQ_1I34vR_UnAYvXmJB2tUa79eZTZrageQQdhv pVirl3xEIIFwYdIm6k

The maybot stuck on repeat............. literally. Repeating the same 7 minute speech 3 times to fill the 21 minute time slot.

https://i.gifer.com/13Qg.gif

[Just Alf]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/05/maybot-random-speech-generator-gets-stuck-on-repeat?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR0MQ_1I34vR_UnAYvXmJB2tUa79eZTZrageQQdhv pVirl3xEIIFwYdIm6k

The maybot stuck on repeat............. literally. Repeating the same 7 minute speech 3 times to fill the 21 minute time slot.

https://i.gifer.com/13Qg.gifJust read it, it's unbelievable and scary that it's true, reading the bit about the questioning it's like she's totally forgotten there more than just the DUP in NI!

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[Colr]

Any recent polls on NI and Scottish devolution of late?

[Ozyhibby]

May and Juncker just released a joint statement that there will be no change to the backstop which leaves May with only 3 choices. A deal with Labour for soft brexit, no deal or no brexit. Or maybe a second vote.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

May and Juncker just released a joint statement that there will be no change to the backstop which leaves May with only 3 choices. A deal with Labour for soft brexit, no deal or no brexit. Or maybe a second vote.


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that's 4 choices :wink:


the two options i've highlighted won't happen


imo of course

[cabbageandribs1875]

bit of praise for oor Nic

https://www.facebook.com/ReportingScotland/videos/542837222875342/

[Hibbyradge]

Here's what the USA will likely want from the UK post Brexit.

It should be fun.

Here's What US Lobbyists Want Donald Trump To Get From A Post-Brexit Trade Deal

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-lobbyists-brexit_uk_5c5b26c6e4b00187b5579f64

[hibsbollah]

Here's what the USA will likely want from the UK post Brexit.

It should be fun.

Here's What US Lobbyists Want Donald Trump To Get From A Post-Brexit Trade Deal

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-lobbyists-brexit_uk_5c5b26c6e4b00187b5579f64

Theres no way the Tories will fold to any Trump demands for end to farming subsidies. The NUF have always had the Tories in their back pockets, if it wasn't for Government support the whole sector would have withered away long ago and we'd be importing all our food instead of just most of it.

All the other demands are extremely worrying, especially around the NHS and food imports.

[RyeSloan]

Theres no way the Tories will fold to any Trump demands for end to farming subsidies. The NUF have always had the Tories in their back pockets, if it wasn't for Government support the whole sector would have withered away long ago and we'd be importing all our food instead of just most of it.

All the other demands are extremely worrying, especially around the NHS and food imports.

They would indeed be worrying, no doubt about that.

Reading the list though it’s all rather unlikely and I can’t imagine any political party being able to sell any of the ‘demands’ to the UK public even if, for any reason, they were minded to try.

[Jack Hackett]

We are soooo ready for No Deal... 48 days to go

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47182361

[cabbageandribs1875]

a cheery wee jacob rees-mogg clip

https://www.facebook.com/ComedyJOEpage/videos/1022174374639610/

[Ozyhibby]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/back-theresa-may-brexit-deal-then-hold-peoples-vote-backbencher-plan?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

Possible break through?


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[Just Alf]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/back-theresa-may-brexit-deal-then-hold-peoples-vote-backbencher-plan?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

Possible break through?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTo be honest I'm amazed this wasn't part of the process from the outset.



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[jonty]

https://www.facebook.com/460375250834443/photos/a.460406337498001/725809767624322

Interesting graphic. Never happen though.

[jonty]

https://twitter.com/jamandthat/status/1094362445072736257?s=21

I do like a James O’Brien rant. There’s not much to disagree about though.

[Jack Hackett]

https://twitter.com/jamandthat/status/1094362445072736257?s=21

I do like a James O’Brien rant. There’s not much to disagree about though.

:top marks


An image in the comments sums up his 'Clowns' label

21684

[heretoday]

A country that can produce The Beatles, Winston Churchill and this sort of thing can have no fears about Brexit or anything.

We're the best and don't forget it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey0D53Dxl3M

[jonty]

If this is true, then whats the solution?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/mps-change-the-way-they-vote-on-brexit-out-of-fear-for-their-safety-says-tom-watson/ar-BBTpm0o?ocid=spartanntp

Better policing/protection? that wont really help the online nutters.
Keep MPs off social media?
Private votes (or private for x years)? Does that make them less accountable?

[Fife-Hibee]

If this is true, then whats the solution?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/mps-change-the-way-they-vote-on-brexit-out-of-fear-for-their-safety-says-tom-watson/ar-BBTpm0o?ocid=spartanntp

Better policing/protection? that wont really help the online nutters.
Keep MPs off social media?
Private votes (or private for x years)? Does that make them less accountable?

Absolute rubbish.

[jonty]

Absolute rubbish.

Which part :greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

Which part :greengrin

The UK Government would love nothing more than to sensor social media and the flow of information on the internet in general. They would much rather we all had the BBC and the Daily Mail as our main "sources" of political information.

They've been pushing this agenda for a number of years now. What they're calling "abuse", quite often isn't abuse at all. It's just people challenging them on what they post and them not being able to back it up, because they know they're lying.

Sure, abuse does happen. But they're placing the line where it shouldn't be placed to shut people up.

[heretoday]

It's all Blair's fault.

He said there would be X amount of immigrants and it turned out there were hundreds of thousands.

Polish youngsters in your stair making a row and drinking nobody wants that.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's all Blair's fault.

He said there would be X amount of immigrants and it turned out there were hundreds of thousands.

Polish youngsters in your stair making a row and drinking nobody wants that.

You're correct. That should be the job of the local youngsters.

Ps is X less than hundreds of thousands?

[heretoday]

You're correct. That should be the job of the local youngsters.

Ps is X less than hundreds of thousands?

ha Ha I take your point.

This is the greatest country in the world. It must be.

Otherwise why would folk be risking their lives clinging on to the under sides of lorries to get here?

Go figure (as they say in America).

[JeMeSouviens]

It's all Blair's fault.

He said there would be X amount of immigrants and it turned out there were hundreds of thousands.

Polish youngsters in your stair making a row and drinking nobody wants that.

Here is a picture of migration to the UK.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-us.s3.amazonaws.com%2F320cc662-88e9-11e8-bf9e-8771d5404543?source=next&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=700

We don't control the pink line because of EU freedom of movement. We do control the light blue line. Note that since the EU ref the pink line has dipped but the light blue line has gone up. It's almost as if the economy needs a certain number of migrants and the business friendly government will ensure that they are supplied anyway even though that runs direcly contrary to the wishes of the xenophobes they sold their stupid Brexit plan to. :rolleyes:

[lapsedhibee]

Here is a picture of migration to the UK.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-us.s3.amazonaws.com%2F320cc662-88e9-11e8-bf9e-8771d5404543?source=next&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=700

We don't control the pink line because of EU freedom of movement. We do control the light blue line. Note that since the EU ref the pink line has dipped but the light blue line has gone up. It's almost as if the economy needs a certain number of migrants and the business friendly government will ensure that they are supplied anyway even though that runs direcly contrary to the wishes of the xenophobes they sold their stupid Brexit plan to. :rolleyes:
Plan?

[Moulin Yarns]

This is an interesting simple explanation of Brexit

https://twitter.com/EUlondonrep/status/1094902213451894784

[JeMeSouviens]

Plan?

Point taken - how about vague set of unachievable fantasy aspirations?

[lapsedhibee]

Point taken - how about vague set of unachievable fantasy aspirations?

:agree:

[bigwheel]

This is a good piece of writing...showing that Theresa May might be about to change her views on the Brexit outcome and create a defining moment in UK politics.



https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-no-deal-brexit-fallback-plan_uk_5c617348e4b0910c63f30fc8

[Just Alf]

This is a good piece of writing...showing that Theresa May might be about to change her views on the Brexit outcome and create a defining moment in UK politics.



https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-no-deal-brexit-fallback-plan_uk_5c617348e4b0910c63f30fc8If a government doesn't "govern for the people" can they be sued?

I was always led to believe ministers were privy to more info than us mere mortals so sometimes will do the opposite of what the electorate want because its for the good of the country as a whole, if they go down the no deal route willingly and with, at the very very best, the delays at borders similar to Switzerland etc along with the hemorrhaging of companies (think Dyson to Singapore to take advantage of their new free trade deal with the EU and similarly with Nisson and Japan's new deal)... If they carry on regardless can they be seen as culpable I wonder?



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[bigwheel]

If a government doesn't "govern for the people" can they be sued?

I was always led to believe ministers were privy to more info than us mere mortals so sometimes will do the opposite of what the electorate want because its for the good of the country as a whole, if they go down the no deal route willingly and with, at the very very best, the delays at borders similar to Switzerland etc along with the hemorrhaging of companies (think Dyson to Singapore to take advantage of their new free trade deal with the EU and similarly with Nisson and Japan's new deal)... If they carry on regardless can they be seen as culpable I wonder?



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I think that deep philosophical questions such as that will be the focus of many future dissertations...

when historians judge this period - it will be seen as a time when the Tories put staying in power above the right thing for the country , and Labour put seeking to get into power above the right thing for the country ..

At a time when we need Leadership the most , we are leaderless..

[Just Alf]

I think that deep philosophical questions such as that will be the focus of many future dissertations...

when historians judge this period - it will be seen as a time when the Tories put staying in power above the right thing for the country , and Labour put seeking to get into power above the right thing for the country ..

At a time when we need Leadership the most , we are leaderless..Funnily enough I was gonna do an edit that "history will be the judge".. Think you've described it perfectly.

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[Hibrandenburg]

I think that deep philosophical questions such as that will be the focus of many future dissertations...

when historians judge this period - it will be seen as a time when the Tories put staying in power above the right thing for the country , and Labour put seeking to get into power above the right thing for the country ..

At a time when we need Leadership the most , we are leaderless..

Sums it up quite nicely. :agree:

[grunt]

At a time when we need Leadership the most , we are leaderless..You can say that again.
Nicola Sturgeon has been the best of the party leaders over the last 2 and a half years.

[Ozyhibby]

ha Ha I take your point.

This is the greatest country in the world. It must be.

Otherwise why would folk be risking their lives clinging on to the under sides of lorries to get here?

Go figure (as they say in America).

We are not the only country people are trying to migrate to. All liberal democracies countries are experiencing this because it is the best system of government available. The amount of migrants we are dealing with are tiny compared to some countries.


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[hibsbollah]

I think that deep philosophical questions such as that will be the focus of many future dissertations...

when historians judge this period - it will be seen as a time when the Tories put staying in power above the right thing for the country , and Labour put seeking to get into power above the right thing for the country ..

At a time when we need Leadership the most , we are leaderless..

There is some truth to that, but in the end it's a flawed analysis. It's an analysis that assumes there is some easy answer to the Brexit mess, that the politicians by mere stupidity or deviousness are ignoring, when in fact there isn't. This is an intractable problem, caused by a crazy selfish decision to hold the referendum without thought for the consequence, but also by the votes cast by all those people who voted Leave, which is going to go on for years and years. There are some idiots in parliament, but I reject the notion that this generation of politicians are uniquely terrible compared to previous generations.

[bigwheel]

There is some truth to that, but in the end it's a flawed analysis. It's an analysis that assumes there is some easy answer to the Brexit mess, that the politicians by mere stupidity or deviousness are ignoring, when in fact there isn't. This is an intractable problem, caused by a crazy selfish decision to hold the election, but also by the votes cast by all those people who voted Leave, which is going to go on for years and years. There are some idiots in parliament, but I reject the notion that this generation of politicians are uniquely terrible compared to previous generations.


My post is not about our current pool
Of politicians being terrible compared to previous generations - it’s about how they have collectively acted at this defining period .

leaders could have chosen to work across party lines to work through a way forward that was right for the country whilst seeking to respect the democratic outcome of this mad vote - they didn’t..they have chosen a largely partisan approach which I Would argue has prioritised looking after their own political agendas in advance of the greater good of the country - that’s why I refer to the lack of real
Leadership

[hibsbollah]

My post is not about our current pool
Of politicians being terrible compared to previous generations - it’s about how they have collectively acted at this defining period .

leaders could have chosen to work across party lines to work through a way forward that was right for the country whilst seeking to respect the democratic outcome of this mad vote - they didn’t..they have chosen a largely partisan approach which I Would argue has prioritised looking after their own political agendas in advance of the greater good of the country - that’s why I refer to the lack of real
Leadership

The greater good of the country or 'the national interest' is a bit of a pet hate of mine, I'm afraid. I just think it's based on a false assumption that there is such a thing. There are competing groups of people, some in politics and most outside politics, with their own particular interests, most of them to do with class or material gain, and some of whom will even benefit from mad things like a No Deal Brexit.

[bigwheel]

The greater good of the country or 'the national interest' is a bit of a pet hate of mine, I'm afraid. I just think it's based on a false assumption that there is such a thing. There are competing groups of people, some in politics and most outside politics, with their own particular interests, most of them to do with class or material gain, and some of whom will even benefit from mad things like a No Deal Brexit.

There is indeed that complexity..handling multi and competing agendas is what leadership needs to do at times of crisis...that is precisely why we should have had a set of Political Leaders standing above those partisan agendas on all sides.

[lapsedhibee]

I think that deep philosophical questions such as that will be the focus of many future dissertations...

when historians judge this period - it will be seen as a time when the Tories put staying in power above the right thing for the country , and Labour put seeking to get into power above the right thing for the country ..

At a time when we need Leadership the most , we are leaderless..

:agree: May is coming to the end of her time in the limelight and is desperate not to go down in historee as the leaderene who caused the Tory party to break up. That's the sole reason she is listening to the likes of Mark Ffsfrancois rather than telling him to GTF.

[Moulin Yarns]

ha Ha I take your point.

This is the greatest country in the world. It must be.

Otherwise why would folk be risking their lives clinging on to the under sides of lorries to get here?

Go figure (as they say in America).

Check the figures. Turkey has the largest number of asylum seekers in Europe. Also you should watch Glasgow Girls for an excellent view on asylum seekers in the UK.

[lapsedhibee]

Check the figures. Turkey has the largest number of asylum seekers in Europe. Also you should watch Glasgow Girls for an excellent view on asylum seekers in the UK.
Because the EU gave Turkey 6 billion euros to keep 'em there. Britain's definitely the best country. WATP. MBGA. BRTW. etc.

[JeMeSouviens]

We are not the only country people are trying to migrate to. All liberal democracies countries are experiencing this because it is the best system of government available. The amount of migrants we are dealing with are tiny compared to some countries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are plenty of economic migrants in Saudi, the UAE etc. Follow the money.

[Hibrandenburg]

Because the EU gave Turkey 6 billion euros to keep 'em there. Britain's definitely the best country. WATP. MBGA. BRTW. etc.

The whole of Germany is laughing themselves into a hysterical fit whilst simultaneously polishing all 4 World Cup trophies at this statement.

[lapsedhibee]

The whole of Germany is laughing themselves into a hysterical fit whilst simultaneously polishing all 4 World Cup trophies at this statement.

But … the Empire … railways to India … sense of fair play …

[SHODAN]

ha Ha I take your point.

This is the greatest country in the world. It must be.

Otherwise why would folk be risking their lives clinging on to the under sides of lorries to get here?

Go figure (as they say in America).

In 2016 in Europe the UK was behind Luxembourg, Malta, Iceland, Cyprus, Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Leichtenstein, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Norway, Estonia, the Netherlands, Belgium and Greece in terms of proportion of immigrants per country. Clearly not that popular.

[lapsedhibee]

In 2016 in Europe the UK was behind Luxembourg, Malta, Iceland, Cyprus, Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Leichtenstein, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Norway, Estonia, the Netherlands, Belgium and Greece in terms of proportion of immigrants per country. Clearly not that popular.

But … Churchill … Nye Bevan … the Industrial Revolution … playing fields of Eton ...

[JeMeSouviens]

Another will she, won't she? article (spoiler - no scoobies abound).

https://www.politico.eu/article/inside-uk-prime-minister-theresa-may-mind-brexit-deal-cliff-edge/

[lapsedhibee]

Another will she, won't she? article (spoiler - no scoobies abound).

https://www.politico.eu/article/inside-uk-prime-minister-theresa-may-mind-brexit-deal-cliff-edge/

Would the British PM really drive the UK over the cliff edge?

(1) It's not a cliff edge
(2) If it were, yes she would if it helped preserve the Tory party.

[Mibbes Aye]

But … Churchill … Nye Bevan … the Industrial Revolution … playing fields of Eton ...

The sound of leather on willow, warm beer, more tea vicar?

[lapsedhibee]

The sound of leather on willow, warm beer, more tea vicar?

Exactly. Clearly migrants would prefer to come here to England. The fact so many have ended up in Germany is testament to the way that the Germans are trying to dominate Europe and especially us. It's even worse than towels on deckchairs, because they're using innocent, vulnerable people to get one over on us.

[Mibbes Aye]

Exactly. Clearly migrants would prefer to come here to England. The fact so many have ended up in Germany is testament to the way that the Germans are trying to dominate Europe and especially us. It's even worse than towels on deckchairs, because they're using innocent, vulnerable people to get one over on us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCk363SqutE

[Fife-Hibee]

Exactly. Clearly migrants would prefer to come here to England. The fact so many have ended up in Germany is testament to the way that the Germans are trying to dominate Europe and especially us. It's even worse than towels on deckchairs, because they're using innocent, vulnerable people to get one over on us.

:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCk363SqutE

Had to stand up for that. Nobody else in the pub did, the disrespectful whippersnappers.

[Mibbes Aye]

Had to stand up for that. Nobody else in the pub did, the disrespectful whippersnappers.

Me too.

Fixed the knot on my tie.

Made sure the club cufflinks were secure.

Full salute and maybe just the slightest hint of a tear in the corner of my eye. "...It's nothing matron, just blinking..."

[Jack Hackett]

Much, much more of this please

2170021701

Billboards in Leeds https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/new-leeds-billboards-remind-brexiteers-15747951

Interesting poll at the bottom of the article.

I also read an article somewhere which stated that voter registration in Leeds has dropped by something like 30k since the referendum... Only interested in politics long enough to ruin the country's future and then **** off back to Britain's Got Talent

[JeMeSouviens]

Much, much more of this please

2170021701

Billboards in Leeds https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/new-leeds-billboards-remind-brexiteers-15747951

Interesting poll at the bottom of the article.

I also read an article somewhere which stated that voter registration in Leeds has dropped by something like 30k since the referendum... Only interested in politics long enough to ruin the country's future and then **** off back to Britain's Got Talent

The billboards are being put up all over:

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys

[Jack Hackett]

The billboards are being put up all over:

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys

:aok:

[McSwanky]

Me too.

Fixed the knot on my tie.

Made sure the club cufflinks were secure.

Full salute and maybe just the slightest hint of a tear in the corner of my eye. "...It's nothing matron, just blinking..."Aw, dinnae bring Nimrod into it, fantastic piece of music!

Agree with the sentiment though...

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[Mibbes Aye]

Aw, dinnae bring Nimrod into it, fantastic piece of music!

Agree with the sentiment though...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Sorry....I'll play my sub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDv0xmSYM7g

:greengrin

[heretoday]

Kick that can down the road Theresa.

And get talking seriously with Labour.

[hibsbollah]

Kick that can down the road Theresa.

And get talking seriously with Labour.

...and avoid anything labelled 'ground beef' in future...

https://www.foodandwine.com/news/pink-slime-ground-beef-usda-classification

[Ozyhibby]

Much, much more of this please

2170021701

Billboards in Leeds https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/new-leeds-billboards-remind-brexiteers-15747951

Interesting poll at the bottom of the article.

I also read an article somewhere which stated that voter registration in Leeds has dropped by something like 30k since the referendum... Only interested in politics long enough to ruin the country's future and then **** off back to Britain's Got Talent

That’s a snobbish attitude and it’s why Leave won. Main parties ignore people who don’t normally vote (it’s why pensioners get free stuff no matter how loaded they are).


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[Fife-Hibee]

This one should be on billboards all over Scotland, but sadly it won't be.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn9ioAdWgAAAXBI.jpg

[Slavers]

This one should be on billboards all over Scotland, but sadly it won't be.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn9ioAdWgAAAXBI.jpg

It was correct though?

[Moulin Yarns]

It was correct though?

Let's examine the facts, 55%voted no, so the suggestion is that we will remain a member of the EU. Now, jump forward 2 years and the rest of the UK (well England and Wales at least) voted to leave the EU, so voting NO results in us leaving the EU.

Would a Yes vote have resulted in Scotland leaving the EU? not necessarily.

Would a No vote have resulted in Scotland leaving the EU? As it transpires, definately.

So how do you come up with the suggestion that a yes vote in 2014 has resulted in Scotland leaving the EU?

[James310]

Let's examine the facts, 55%voted no, so the suggestion is that we will remain a member of the EU. Now, jump forward 2 years and the rest of the UK (well England and Wales at least) voted to leave the EU, so voting NO results in us leaving the EU.

Would a Yes vote have resulted in Scotland leaving the EU? not necessarily.

Would a No vote have resulted in Scotland leaving the EU? As it transpires, definately.

So how do you come up with the suggestion that a yes vote in 2014 has resulted in Scotland leaving the EU?

At the time there was no knowledge or indication of an EU referendum, so unless you had a crystal ball then at the time that statement was right. As time has moved on then it has proved to be not the case, but at the time it was written it was correct.

Would a Yes vote have meant leaving the EU? Who knows but it was very likely as we would have separated from the EU member state at the time which was the United Kingdom. We will never know if Scotland would have been allowed to stay in the EU as it was never put to the test. Some will say of course we would, some will disagree, we will never know who would have been right.

[Slavers]

Let's examine the facts, 55%voted no, so the suggestion is that we will remain a member of the EU. Now, jump forward 2 years and the rest of the UK (well England and Wales at least) voted to leave the EU, so voting NO results in us leaving the EU.

Would a Yes vote have resulted in Scotland leaving the EU? not necessarily.

Would a No vote have resulted in Scotland leaving the EU? As it transpires, definately.

So how do you come up with the suggestion that a yes vote in 2014 has resulted in Scotland leaving the EU?

Because Scotland was not a member of the EU and the UK was/is. If we voted yes for independence we would have lost our EU membership.

At the time of the referendum this was discussed at length.

[Moulin Yarns]

Is everyone watching the clusterboorach in Westminster just now?

A no vote guaranteed this.

[lapsedhibee]

Is everyone watching the clusterboorach in Westminster just now?

A no vote guaranteed this.

Yep. Stanley Baxter was on his feet at least a couple of times earlier for the SNP.

Whole rabble kept pin-drop silent quite a few times to hear what Starmer was saying. Ditch Corbyn and make him boss. :agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

Yep. Stanley Baxter was on his feet at least a couple of times earlier for the SNP.

Whole rabble kept pin-drop silent quite a few times to hear what Starmer was saying. Ditch Corbyn and make him boss. :agree:

Yvette Cooper

[Moulin Yarns]

Government defeated again

[Callum_62]

Government defeated again

With?


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[Moulin Yarns]

The Brexit plan.

By 45 votes

[JeMeSouviens]

At the time there was no knowledge or indication of an EU referendum, so unless you had a crystal ball then at the time that statement was right. As time has moved on then it has proved to be not the case, but at the time it was written it was correct.

Would a Yes vote have meant leaving the EU? Who knows but it was very likely as we would have separated from the EU member state at the time which was the United Kingdom. We will never know if Scotland would have been allowed to stay in the EU as it was never put to the test. Some will say of course we would, some will disagree, we will never know who would have been right.

Apart from the fact it had been Tory policy since Cameron's Bloomberg speech in January 2013. A Tory majority looked unlikely at that time but (obviously) was not exactly out of the question.

What's the point in contributing if you can't be bothered to get even the most basic facts right? :rolleyes:

[Hibrandenburg]

Apart from the fact it had been Tory policy since Cameron's Bloomberg speech in January 2013. A Tory majority looked unlikely at that time but (obviously) was not exactly out of the question.

What's the point in contributing if you can't be bothered to get even the most basic facts right? :rolleyes:

Thanks, I was looking for dates but you've saved me the effort.

[JeMeSouviens]

Thanks, I was looking for dates but you've saved me the effort.

You're welcome. :greengrin

Theresa May left the commons tonight without even bothering to wait for the result and nobody from the government accepted the speaker's invitation to respond on its behalf. Taking shambles to ever greater heights.

[hibsbollah]

It's just parliamentary fannying about, in essence. Nothing binding. Nothing meaningful.

That this house welcomes the prime minister’s statement of 12 February 2019; reiterates its support for the approach to leaving the EU expressed by this house on 29 January 2019 and notes that discussions between the UK and the EU on the Northern Ireland backstop are ongoing

[James310]

Apart from the fact it had been Tory policy since Cameron's Bloomberg speech in January 2013. A Tory majority looked unlikely at that time but (obviously) was not exactly out of the question.

What's the point in contributing if you can't be bothered to get even the most basic facts right? :rolleyes:

LOL

It was SNP policy to freeze council tax but that never happened, it was SNP policy to reduce class room sizes that never happened, it was Lib Dems policy not to introduce tuition fees and guess what that never happened.

The above were in manifestos and were still broken so I don't think a speech translates into any type of agreement or even a binding commitment to hold the referendum.

I never knew you held Cameron and what he said in such high regard.

[JeMeSouviens]

It's just parliamentary fannying about, in essence. Nothing binding. Nothing meaningful.

That this house welcomes the prime minister’s statement of 12 February 2019; reiterates its support for the approach to leaving the EU expressed by this house on 29 January 2019 and notes that discussions between the UK and the EU on the Northern Ireland backstop are ongoing

It was meant to show the EU that May had a "stable majority". Har har.

Meanwhile, it's emerged that among the 41 Lab MPs that broke their whip and voted with the SNP amendment to delay art 50 included one Ian Murray!

Anyone heading for hell - pack your ice axe. :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

LOL

It was SNP policy to freeze council tax but that never happened, it was SNP policy to reduce class room sizes that never happened, it was Lib Dems policy not to introduce tuition fees and guess what that never happened.

The above were in manifestos and were still broken so I don't think a speech translates into any type of agreement or even a binding commitment to hold the referendum.

I never knew you held Cameron and what he said in such high regard.

SNP this that and the ****** other.

Yeah, alright then. That squares brilliantly with your actual quote, "no knowledge or indication of an EU referendum". :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

It was meant to show the EU that May had a "stable majority". Har har.

Meanwhile, it's emerged that among the 41 Lab MPs that broke their whip and voted with the SNP amendment to delay art 50 included one Ian Murray!

Anyone heading for hell - pack your ice axe. :wink:

I have had some quite spicy exchanges with Mr Murray in the past. I'm afraid I think he's a prize plum. And never came across as very bright either. But I have been impressed by his recent people's vote campaigning. I suppose when you have a 23000 majority he feels like he can do what he likes.

[Ozyhibby]

LOL

It was SNP policy to freeze council tax but that never happened, it was SNP policy to reduce class room sizes that never happened, it was Lib Dems policy not to introduce tuition fees and guess what that never happened.

The above were in manifestos and were still broken so I don't think a speech translates into any type of agreement or even a binding commitment to hold the referendum.

I never knew you held Cameron and what he said in such high regard.

Council Tax was frozen?


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[Callyballybe]

It was meant to show the EU that May had a "stable majority". Har har.

Meanwhile, it's emerged that among the 41 Lab MPs that broke their whip and voted with the SNP amendment to delay art 50 included one Ian Murray!

Anyone heading for hell - pack your ice axe. :wink:

I've noticed this has happened on more than one occasion - Labour largely (or completely) abstaining from an SNP amendment with regards to Brexit - Is this purely to do with the party whips telling them not to be seen to be siding with the SNP on any matter?

[ronaldo7]

Council Tax was frozen?


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Only for about 9 years though. The union's been going for over 300 years, and he's only interested in that. 😂

[ronaldo7]

I've noticed this has happened on more than one occasion - Labour largely (or completely) abstaining from an SNP amendment with regards to Brexit - Is this purely to do with the party whips telling them not to be seen to be siding with the SNP on any matter?

It's also known as the Bain principle.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/03/31/the-bain-principle/&ved=2ahUKEwjD4ZTAmLzgAhVcUxUIHTHtCJAQFjADegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw1E-grXp6RvHHf0IziKySqh

[Moulin Yarns]

LOL

It was SNP policy to freeze council tax but that never happened, it was SNP policy to reduce class room sizes that never happened, it was Lib Dems policy not to introduce tuition fees and guess what that never happened.

The above were in manifestos and were still broken so I don't think a speech translates into any type of agreement or even a binding commitment to hold the referendum.

I never knew you held Cameron and what he said in such high regard.

Council tax freeze lasted for something like 10 years

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38983155

[Mibbes Aye]

It's also known as the Bain principle.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/03/31/the-bain-principle/&ved=2ahUKEwjD4ZTAmLzgAhVcUxUIHTHtCJAQFjADegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw1E-grXp6RvHHf0IziKySqh

Am I right in thinking that more Labour MPs voted for Ian Blackford's Brexit amendment than SNP MPs did?

This Bain principle stuff doesn't really hold water does it?

[Fife-Hibee]

It was SNP policy to freeze council tax but that never happened

I'm pretty sure it did. :greengrin

They've only just lifted the cap after about 10 years and the bands haven't gone up as much as they would have done had there been no freeze.

[Ozyhibby]

Am I right in thinking that more Labour MPs voted for Ian Blackford's Brexit amendment than SNP MPs did?

This Bain principle stuff doesn't really hold water does it?

Give it a couple of weeks and they might not be Labour mp’s. [emoji23]


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[Callyballybe]

It's also known as the Bain principle.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/03/31/the-bain-principle/&ved=2ahUKEwjD4ZTAmLzgAhVcUxUIHTHtCJAQFjADegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw1E-grXp6RvHHf0IziKySqh

Thanks for posting - Hadn't come across this previously.

[ronaldo7]

Am I right in thinking that more Labour MPs voted for Ian Blackford's Brexit amendment than SNP MPs did?

This Bain principle stuff doesn't really hold water does it?

Thank goodness for jezza. The Bain principle has been a thing for yonks, and you know it.

I suggest you take a closer look at the voting of your party in future.

Happy to have the 41 labour rebels onboard the good ship SNP last night.

The way the polls are looking, the SNP might just reach the dizzy heights of 41 soon enough.

[Moulin Yarns]

Am I right in thinking that more Labour MPs voted for Ian Blackford's Brexit amendment than SNP MPs did?

This Bain principle stuff doesn't really hold water does it?

let me put it another way,

100% of SNP MPs voted for the amendment but only 16% of Labour MPs voted for it. Happy now? :wink:

[ronaldo7]

let me put it another way,

100% of SNP MPs voted for the amendment but only 16% of Labour MPs voted for it. Happy now? :wink:

The rest of them did their usual, and abstained.
They were instructed not to support a very passive amendment seeking to extend article 50 in order to stop a no deal by default.
How very progressive.

[JeMeSouviens]

Am I right in thinking that more Labour MPs voted for Ian Blackford's Brexit amendment than SNP MPs did?

This Bain principle stuff doesn't really hold water does it?

:greengrin

One vote for an SNP amendment doesn't make a summer you know. There seem to be no consequences for breaking the whip in either Lab or Con atm.

[Bristolhibby]

Because Scotland was not a member of the EU and the UK was/is. If we voted yes for independence we would have lost our EU membership.

At the time of the referendum this was discussed at length.

That’s one scenario. The other was that we would have been the setter of the Presedance around a member state splitting into two states.

IIRC the Scottish Government could not even ask the question as the EU would only accept questions from Westminster and Westminster (knowing the answer from the expansionist at heart EU would have been, “Of course Scotland could remain a member of the EU”.)

It’s all a moot point now, but wanted to highlight that it was far from done to death (as the question wasn’t allowed to be asked). Another case of Westminster knows best.

J

[Bristolhibby]

I've noticed this has happened on more than one occasion - Labour largely (or completely) abstaining from an SNP amendment with regards to Brexit - Is this purely to do with the party whips telling them not to be seen to be siding with the SNP on any matter?

Which is utterly contemptuous. Small minded and will leave the U.K. on the edge of a No Deal Precipice.

J

[calumb]

That’s one scenario. The other was that we would have been the setter of the Presedance around a member state splitting into two states.

IIRC the Scottish Government could not even ask the question as the EU would only accept questions from Westminster and Westminster (knowing the answer from the expansionist at heart EU would have been, “Of course Scotland could remain a member of the EU”.)

It’s all a moot point now, but wanted to highlight that it was far from done to death (as the question wasn’t allowed to be asked). Another case of Westminster knows best.

J

There already had been precedence as Greenland voted for independence from Denmark after this they had to trigger article 50 to enable them to also leave the EU.
It would have been no different for Scotland and I think when you see the length the EU have gone to over the years to keep the UK part of the European project I think an iScotland would have been looked after ok.
However I wouldn't hold out much hope of an newly independent Scotland getting admitted to the eu after the uk departs as it would open up another border can of worms.

[Bristolhibby]

There already had been precedence as Greenland voted for independence from Denmark after this they had to trigger article 50 to enable them to also leave the EU.
It would have been no different for Scotland and I think when you see the length the EU have gone to over the years to keep the UK part of the European project I think an iScotland would have been looked after ok.
However I wouldn't hold out much hope of an newly independent Scotland getting admitted to the eu after the uk departs as it would open up another border can of worms.

Indeed. But there’s no reason why an iScotland wouldn’t be fast tracked. We would tick all the boxes.

J

[Ozyhibby]

There already had been precedence as Greenland voted for independence from Denmark after this they had to trigger article 50 to enable them to also leave the EU.
It would have been no different for Scotland and I think when you see the length the EU have gone to over the years to keep the UK part of the European project I think an iScotland would have been looked after ok.
However I wouldn't hold out much hope of an newly independent Scotland getting admitted to the eu after the uk departs as it would open up another border can of worms.

There won’t be a border issue because we won’t be leaving under ‘no deal’, I don’t think.
Whatever arrangement they have for N. Ireland will work just fine for the Scotland England border.
I’m pretty sure we are going to be staying in the CU and probably the SM as well now.
ERG has over played their hand now.


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[Callyballybe]

Which is utterly contemptuous. Small minded and will leave the U.K. on the edge of a No Deal Precipice.

J

Agreed - That was what I was getting at, conclusion wise anyway.

[calumb]

There won’t be a border issue because we won’t be leaving under ‘no deal’, I don’t think.
Whatever arrangement they have for N. Ireland will work just fine for the Scotland England border.
I’m pretty sure we are going to be staying in the CU and probably the SM as well now.
ERG has over played their hand now.


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Good point regarding the border, hadn't thought about it that way.

[RyeSloan]

There won’t be a border issue because we won’t be leaving under ‘no deal’, I don’t think.
Whatever arrangement they have for N. Ireland will work just fine for the Scotland England border.
I’m pretty sure we are going to be staying in the CU and probably the SM as well now.
ERG has over played their hand now.


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Doubt the CU and SM comments.

Still on for a late fudge in my book. Time limit on the backstop through the odd addendum not part of the withdrawal agreement thing that’s been cooked up, deal gets over the line in the commons by a baw hair, late ratification by the EU at their handily timed leadership summit last week in March is my predicto.

[heretoday]

Doubt the CU and SM comments.

Still on for a late fudge in my book. Time limit on the backstop through the odd addendum not part of the withdrawal agreement thing that’s been cooked up, deal gets over the line in the commons by a baw hair, late ratification by the EU at their handily timed leadership summit last week in March is my predicto.
Agree. Catastrophe averted!

[steakbake]

Agree. Catastrophe averted!

No, catastrophe wouldn’t be averted. It would however, at least be limited. Even with May’s deal, the country is hugely diminished and has already taken a significant hit. 800mil per week so far.

[lapsedhibee]

No, catastrophe wouldn’t be averted. It would however, at least be limited. Even with May’s deal, the country is hugely diminished and has already taken a significant hit. 800mil per week so far.

Yes, but what's £800m a week when we'll be saving much less than that per week in net contributions once we leave?

[Fife-Hibee]

Yes, but what's £800m a week when we'll be saving much less than that per week in net contributions once we leave?

£799m a week? :dunno:

[lapsedhibee]

£799m a week? :dunno:

I make it only about £655m, but it seems hard to come by accurate figures in this area. Where is your £799m from?

[Callum_62]

Yes, but what's £800m a week when we'll be saving much less than that per week in net contributions once we leave?

Like to see the maths on that?

Edit - i should read more carefully [emoji6]


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[Colr]

Anti Brexit demonstration on 23rd March.

Over 700,000 at the last one

[Jack Hackett]

Anti Brexit demonstration on 23rd March.

Over 700,000 at the last one

Yeah, just seen that. Bummer, as it's the day I return from a (possibly) last fag run to Spain, but don't get back 'til late

[jonty]

Britain's richest man quits the UK: Billionaire Brexiteer Sir James Ratcliffe 'relocates to Monaco in a bid to save £4bn in tax'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britains-richest-man-quits-the-uk-billionaire-brexiteer-sir-james-ratcliffe-relocates-to-monaco-in-a-bid-to-save-%c2%a34bn-in-tax/ar-BBTGGYN?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Business sense, hypocrisy or both?

[Just Alf]

Britain's richest man quits the UK: Billionaire Brexiteer Sir James Ratcliffe 'relocates to Monaco in a bid to save £4bn in tax'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britains-richest-man-quits-the-uk-billionaire-brexiteer-sir-james-ratcliffe-relocates-to-monaco-in-a-bid-to-save-%c2%a34bn-in-tax/ar-BBTGGYN?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Business sense, hypocrisy or both?In his case, both I guess... Dyson is the exact same, moved his company 'flag' to Singapore to take advantage of their new free trade deal with the EU (his biggest market)...





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[Colr]

Britain's richest man quits the UK: Billionaire Brexiteer Sir James Ratcliffe 'relocates to Monaco in a bid to save £4bn in tax'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britains-richest-man-quits-the-uk-billionaire-brexiteer-sir-james-ratcliffe-relocates-to-monaco-in-a-bid-to-save-%c2%a34bn-in-tax/ar-BBTGGYN?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Business sense, hypocrisy or both?

Had the benefit of the UK but doesn’t want to give his fair share back.

[jonty]

In his case, both I guess... Dyson is the exact same, moved his company 'flag' to Singapore to take advantage of their new free trade deal with the EU (his biggest market)...





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Dyson is just moving the company. Ratcliffe is actually moving himself to Monaco.
With their customs union, euro and free movement (by association with France). Kind of makes you wonder why he thinks the UK would be better out of it.
Financially I suspect he would have done it regardless of Brexit.

[Jack Hackett]

Britain's richest man quits the UK: Billionaire Brexiteer Sir James Ratcliffe 'relocates to Monaco in a bid to save £4bn in tax'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britains-richest-man-quits-the-uk-billionaire-brexiteer-sir-james-ratcliffe-relocates-to-monaco-in-a-bid-to-save-%c2%a34bn-in-tax/ar-BBTGGYN?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Business sense, hypocrisy or both?

On the same page... Trade talks with China dumped after Gavin Williamson does a bit of pen-knife rattling

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/chancellor-will-not-make-trade-trip-to-china-next-week-amid-fury-at-gavin-williamson-pledge-to-send-aircraft-carrier/ar-BBTFgvw?ocid=mailsignout

You really couldn't make this **** up

[Just Alf]

Project fear right enough ....

Porsche warns UK customers of Brexit price rise -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47270616





On phone, so apologies, it'll be a cut and paste until someone quotes it :-)

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[Hibbyradge]

Brexit means Brexit.

Swindon voted to leave the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47282603

[JeMeSouviens]

Brexit means Brexit.

Swindon voted to leave the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47282603

It's cheaper (post the new EU-Japan FTA) for Honda to build cars in Japan and ship them to Europe than build in Britain with almost certain supply chain disruption and possible tarrifs.

Local Tory MP says it's down to "global trends". Arse. :rolleyes:

[Hibrandenburg]

Brexit means Brexit.

Swindon voted to leave the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47282603

Project fear.

[Jones28]

Brexit means Brexit.

Swindon voted to leave the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47282603

The scary thing is that pennies STILL won't drop. It's mind blowing.

[Bristolhibby]

My wife teaches in Swindon. This is really going to hit the town hard.

There is a bit of schadenfreude about all this.

Do things have to go terribly wrong before they get better?

J

[Colr]

My wife teaches in Swindon. This is really going to hit the town hard.

There is a bit of schadenfreude about all this.

Do things have to go terribly wrong before they get better?

J

Swindon voted leave.

[Hibrandenburg]

My wife teaches in Swindon. This is really going to hit the town hard.

There is a bit of schadenfreude about all this.

Do things have to go terribly wrong before they get better?

J

Things will have to either get disastrously worse or considerably improve to get the country to unite. The country is so divided and entrenched that one side will have to be completely humiliated before reconciliation can take place, there will be no concentus until one side has been unequivocally proved wrong.

[Bristolhibby]

Swindon voted leave.

Yea I know. Kinda why I feel a bit “you’ve made your bed, now lie in it”.

J

[steakbake]

Yea I know. Kinda why I feel a bit “you’ve made your bed, now lie in it”.

J

They haven’t so much made the bed, but shat it.

[heretoday]

Referendums are SUCH a bad idea........

[Ozyhibby]

Referendums are SUCH a bad idea........

Why? Just because those who wanted to stay in the EU didn’t bother to defend it in the campaign does not make referendums a bad idea.


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[Smartie]

Why? Just because those who wanted to stay in the EU didn’t bother to defend it in the campaign does not make referendums a bad idea.


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I don't think referendums are a bad idea but I do think that we should consider when they are a good idea and when they are not.

Boris' bus was a low point for democracy. That a man can stand in front of a bus claiming that x amount of millions of pounds will be saved and spent on the NHS upon leaving the EU then the day after the referendum distance himself from that message undermined the credibility of the whole exercise. Nigel Farage can influence millions of people with dog whistle racism but not have to back up his message in any way.

There is also a time and place for the public to be involved, and there is a time and place for us to allow our elected representatives to get on with it on our behalf. Many issues are too complicated for Joe Public to make a sensible, informed choice so we must leave that to the people who are paid to make choices on our behalf. We can become as engaged as we like in choosing who those people are, what they stand for and how they LEAD us. It's incredible how all of a sudden so many people seem to have become experts on very delicate political matters.

[Hibrandenburg]

I don't think referendums are a bad idea but I do think that we should consider when they are a good idea and when they are not.

Boris' bus was a low point for democracy. That a man can stand in front of a bus claiming that x amount of millions of pounds will be saved and spent on the NHS upon leaving the EU then the day after the referendum distance himself from that message undermined the credibility of the whole exercise. Nigel Farage can influence millions of people with dog whistle racism but not have to back up his message in any way.

There is also a time and place for the public to be involved, and there is a time and place for us to allow our elected representatives to get on with it on our behalf. Many issues are too complicated for Joe Public to make a sensible, informed choice so we must leave that to the people who are paid to make choices on our behalf. We can become as engaged as we like in choosing who those people are, what they stand for and how they LEAD us. It's incredible how all of a sudden so many people seem to have become experts on very delicate political matters.

I agree with pretty much all of that but would add that some of the people chosen to lead have led us down the garden path by promising populist rubbish that is impossible to deliver.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I don't think referendums are a bad idea but I do think that we should consider when they are a good idea and when they are not.

Boris' bus was a low point for democracy. That a man can stand in front of a bus claiming that x amount of millions of pounds will be saved and spent on the NHS upon leaving the EU then the day after the referendum distance himself from that message undermined the credibility of the whole exercise. Nigel Farage can influence millions of people with dog whistle racism but not have to back up his message in any way.

There is also a time and place for the public to be involved, and there is a time and place for us to allow our elected representatives to get on with it on our behalf. Many issues are too complicated for Joe Public to make a sensible, informed choice so we must leave that to the people who are paid to make choices on our behalf. We can become as engaged as we like in choosing who those people are, what they stand for and how they LEAD us. It's incredible how all of a sudden so many people seem to have become experts on very delicate political matters.

Couldn't agree more with your final paragraph, as someone who doesn't have much interest in politics it was a responsibility that didn't rest easily on my shoulders but, I felt I should involve myself in the democratic process without necessarily having enough knowledge to do so.

[heretoday]

I reckon if a referendum involves a major constitutional change the side voting for that change must win by some considerable margin.

Otherwise you've got a recipe for trouble as in Brexit and to an extent the Scottish referendum.

[RyeSloan]

They haven’t so much made the bed, but shat it.

Apart from the fact that Honda have clarified the fact it had zilch to do with Brexit and all about electrification of cars, global trends in the types of cars, their market size in Europe and are also closing a plant in Turkey for the same reasons.

Allied to the fact that the EU has recently agreed to zero tariffs for cars from Japan then you have your answer.

Project fear indeed.

[Hibbyradge]

Apart from the fact that Honda have clarified the fact it had zilch to do with Brexit and all about electrification of cars, global trends in the types of cars, their market size in Europe and are also closing a plant in Turkey for the same reasons.

Allied to the fact that the EU has recently agreed to zero tariffs for cars from Japan then you have your answer.



There will be tarrifs if the cars are from the UK.

[weecounty hibby]

There will be tarrifs if the cars are from the UK.

Aye, but c'mon it's nothing to do with Brexit. What you say here is a total irrelevance. Isn't it? 🙄

[JeMeSouviens]

Apart from the fact that Honda have clarified the fact it had zilch to do with Brexit and all about electrification of cars, global trends in the types of cars, their market size in Europe and are also closing a plant in Turkey for the same reasons.

Allied to the fact that the EU has recently agreed to zero tariffs for cars from Japan then you have your answer.

Project fear indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/19/carmakers-quitting-britain-wont-blame-brexit-its-not-in-their-interest

[Colr]

Tarrifs on food imports announced today.

[Bristolhibby]

Apart from the fact that Honda have clarified the fact it had zilch to do with Brexit and all about electrification of cars, global trends in the types of cars, their market size in Europe and are also closing a plant in Turkey for the same reasons.

Allied to the fact that the EU has recently agreed to zero tariffs for cars from Japan then you have your answer.

Project fear indeed.

If I wanted to sell cars to the U.K. market. Would I state that it’s 51% of my prospective buyers that caused my company to leave the U.K.? Or would I blame something else?

J

[Colr]

Has it sunk in yet that both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn were both brexiteers the whole time?

Theresa May's absolute determination to see brexit go through without it being taken back to the public and Jeremy Corbyn's complete failure to back a public vote either. They both want brexit, just their own visions of brexit which will both be a disaster.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

[RyeSloan]

Ahh right OK so the most vocal anti Brexit industry is now too scared to blame Brexit in case of some sort of boycott..boycotts that have not been seen or heard of to date.

Or maybe it’s just a fact that it’s as the the senior VP of Honda states:

We're seeing unprecedented change in the industry on a global scale. We have to move very swiftly to electrification of our vehicles because of demand of our customers and legislation.
"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about.
"We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to.

And maybe it’s OK to admit that correlation is not causation.

But really who am I kidding, despite zero evidence to support the narrative that it’s secretly all about Brexit really, I doubt anyone is going to admit that on this occasion they might have jumped the gun and got this one a bit wrong...

[Hibbyradge]

Ahh right OK so the most vocal anti Brexit industry is now too scared to blame Brexit in case of some sort of boycott..boycotts that have not been seen or heard of to date.

Or maybe it’s just a fact that it’s as the the senior VP of Honda states:

We're seeing unprecedented change in the industry on a global scale. We have to move very swiftly to electrification of our vehicles because of demand of our customers and legislation.
"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about.
"We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to.

And maybe it’s OK to admit that correlation is not causation.

But really who am I kidding, despite zero evidence to support the narrative that it’s secretly all about Brexit really, I doubt anyone is going to admit that on this occasion they might have jumped the gun and got this one a bit wrong...

If you think that free access to the EU has nothing to do with this company's relocation, then you're being naive.

It will come out in the wash and I wouldn't be surprised that if Brexit was reversed, Honda would think again.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/




“Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”.


sorry but i have to laugh at this :faf: this man somehow fools the many, not just the few

[RyeSloan]

If you think that free access to the EU has nothing to do with this company's relocation, then you're being naive.

It will come out in the wash and I wouldn't be surprised that if Brexit was reversed, Honda would think again.

You are missing the point. Honda simply doesn’t care about Europe as a market. It has a market share of less than 1% and it’s simply easier and more cost effective for it to import from Japan to service such a small amount of sales.

The plant was already running at only 50% capacity, was building a style of car that consumers are moving away from in droves and they also need to sell more electric cars to meet the average emissions regs.

Nor does the Brexit narrative explain why the Turkish plant is being closed as well.

But as I said I’m not expecting any of that to be taken on board so I’ll sign off on this one now as folk will clearly believe what they want to believe so hey ho.

[weecounty hibby]

The Turkish plant is not one Europe so now that the EU and Japan have a trading agreement then tariffs would likely be applied to cars coming from Turkey. Just a thought but it seems very similar to the Swindon situation. I don't doubt that changing economic and consumer trends have something to do with the decisions but I also don't doubt that Brexit and the EU/Japan agreement has also

[Hibbyradge]

There are no EU tariffs on cars from Turkey which, on the face of it, would back up the assertion that the closure at Swindon was not caused by Brexit.

However, the Brexit supporting Tory MP for Swindon is being a little bit naughty in the information he's giving out.

Honda is ceasing production of the Honda Civic in Turkey because it will be cheaper to assemble the entire car in Japan once it moves its Swindon operation.

However, unlike Swindon which will close entirely, Honda will continue its business operations in Turkey.

Of course, as has been pointed out above, people will continue to believe what they want to believe.

[Moulin Yarns]

Interesting talk from John Major, remember him. He was lecturing to a group at Glasgow University yesterday and said because of English and Welsh voters Scotland was being forced out of the EU and the only way for Scotland to be able to remain in the EU was to become independent.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Interesting talk from John Major, remember him. He was lecturing to a group at Glasgow University yesterday and said because of English and Welsh voters Scotland was being forced out of the EU and the only way for Scotland to be able to remain in the EU was to become independent.

Even I could've told them that! 😀

[weecounty hibby]

Interesting talk from John Major, remember him. He was lecturing to a group at Glasgow University yesterday and said because of English and Welsh voters Scotland was being forced out of the EU and the only way for Scotland to be able to remain in the EU was to become independent.
On the back of that I heard some Scottish Tory MP on the radio telling us that there was no point and you just had to look at Brexit to see how difficult it is to break a union. Especially one that was 300 years old never mind 50. He failed to mention that Brexiteer have been so difficult due to his party making a complete James Hunt of things, having no real plan to exit, having **** leadership and no idea of how to deal with the other side of the break up. The Scottish government have a plan and indeed published a white paper, they have a better leader and they will have learned how to deal with the other side from the Brexiteer fiasco.
Good to see that Major was supporting a move towards an independent Scotland!!

[James310]

The White Paper/Growth Report paper have a lot of fantasy in them as well. £450M to set up an Independent Scottish state was the figure quoted.

When you think Scot Gov has spent £178M setting up an IT system (confirmed cost by Scot Gov) for farmers and the cost of setting up our own benefits system is around £200M then the figure of £450M seems fantasy land to set up a whole new infrastructure with all the various departments and functions required.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/16248945.snp-growth-report-independent-scotland-will-cost-450m-over-5-years/

[weecounty hibby]

The White Paper/Growth Report paper have a lot of fantasy in them as well. £450M to set up an Independent Scottish state was the figure quoted.

When you think Scot Gov has spent £178M setting up an IT system (confirmed cost by Scot Gov) for farmers and the cost of setting up our own benefits system is around £200M then the figure of £450M seems fantasy land to set up a whole new infrastructure with all the various departments and functions required.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/16248945.snp-growth-report-independent-scotland-will-cost-450m-over-5-years/
That's as maybe, but they had a plan. An outline, a target, a goal. The Tory/UKIP shysters had **** all. Probably because they didn't really believe that more than 50% of the UK would be taken in by their bull****. Maybe that's where those of us who believe in an independent Scotland went wrong. Reasoned debate was our downfall, we should just have hired a bus and painted a great big lie on the side of it

[Just Alf]

That's as maybe, but they had a plan. An outline, a target, a goal. The Tory/UKIP shysters had **** all. Probably because they didn't really believe that more than 50% of the UK would be taken in by their bull****. Maybe that's where those of us who believe in an independent Scotland went wrong. Reasoned debate was our downfall, we should just have hired a bus and painted a great big lie on the side of itPedant alert!

T'was 37% that voted for Brexit, the rest voted remain or believed the reports that remain had it in the bag so didn't bother to vote. :-/

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[weecounty hibby]

Pedant alert!

T'was 37% that voted for Brexit, the rest voted remain or believed the reports that remain had it in the bag so didn't bother to vote. :-/

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Aye, sorry about that. I need to stop reading these threads and watching the news. It is so so frustrating that there are still people who think that Brexit is a good idea🤯

[RyeSloan]

That's as maybe, but they had a plan. An outline, a target, a goal. The Tory/UKIP shysters had **** all. Probably because they didn't really believe that more than 50% of the UK would be taken in by their bull****. Maybe that's where those of us who believe in an independent Scotland went wrong. Reasoned debate was our downfall, we should just have hired a bus and painted a great big lie on the side of it

The white paper was not really a plan.

But that aside it’s also worth remembering the government of the day supported remain so I suppose you could say they did have a plan, to remain.

They did of course bolt immediately when they realised that their plan was rather flawed as it had no contingency...cue the gawd awful stramash since.


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[Hibbyradge]

Check out @moh_kohn’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/moh_kohn/status/1097848148003827714?s=09

[jonty]

Check out @moh_kohn’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/moh_kohn/status/1097848148003827714?s=09

To be fair, leave.eu are spot on.
They wont leave after Brexit because they'll already be away.

[Callum_62]

Check out @moh_kohn’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/moh_kohn/status/1097848148003827714?s=09

Aye but thats just coincidence mind


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[The Pointer]

Airbus haven't left but are threatening to do so because of the massive bungs they receive from the EU, and Ford closed the Transit factory in Southampton and moved all production to a new factory in Turkey because of a large grant they received from the EU.

[Hibrandenburg]

Airbus haven't left but are threatening to do so because of the massive bungs they receive from the EU, and Ford closed the Transit factory in Southampton and moved all production to a new factory in Turkey because of a large grant they received from the EU.

The EU paid Ford to move production and jobs out of the EU? I'd like to see some proof of that please.

[PeeJay]

The EU paid Ford to move production and jobs out of the EU? I'd like to see some proof of that please.


You won't find any of course - "tendentious" claim at the most ... more people simply twisting facts to suit an agenda ...

https://infacts.org/eu-not-paying-uk-firms-outsource/

[Hibrandenburg]

You won't find any of course - "tendentious" claim at the most ... more people simply twisting facts to suit an agenda ...

https://infacts.org/eu-not-paying-uk-firms-outsource/

Exactly PJ. The EU bank lending money isn't nearly the same as the EU giving out a grant.

[Bristolhibby]

I said to my mates Airbus would be next.

Big employer in Bristol.

Keep an eye on Rolls Royce aircraft engines also.

J

[cabbageandribs1875]

and another one gone

Ian Austin has become the ninth MP to quit Labour this week, blaming leader Jeremy Corbyn for "creating a culture of extremism and intolerance".

He told the BBC the leadership had failed to tackle anti-Semitism and had turned the party into a "narrow sect".

But the MP for Dudley North said he had no plans to join the new Independent Group of former Labour and Tory MPs.





Respect :agree:

[JeMeSouviens]

Labour leadership still trying to ride both horses it seems.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-moving-towards-peoples-vote-shadow-chancellor-john-mcdonnell-tells-of-party-shift-on-brexit-a4073896.html

[James310]

Extension of Article 50 is now odds on at 2/7.

[jonty]

Extension of Article 50 is now odds on at 2/7.
Did they mention how long the extension might be?

If i recall correctly, the EU have to agree to this (all 27 other members) and previously said this was 'not desired' due to upcoming European elections.

[James310]

Did they mention how long the extension might be?

If i recall correctly, the EU not have to agree to this (all 27 other members) and previously said this was 'not desired' due to upcoming European elections.

No it was just the odds for an extension. It would seem ridiculous to vote in the European elections but I still think a deal will be done as the ERG group might not want to risk no Brexit at all, which this is where we could be heading.

The vote later this week on whether to take no deal Brexit off the table will be the one to watch out for.

[jonty]

No it was just the odds for an extension. It would seem ridiculous to vote in the European elections but I still think a deal will be done as the ERG group might not want to risk no Brexit at all, which this is where we could be heading.

The vote later this week on whether to take no deal Brexit off the table will be the one to watch out for.

If her intent is to wear everyone down she's doing a great job. Just keep kicking the can down the road while the country sits in limbo.
Given the shambles it all is, they'd be better to take it off the table, re-group and deliver something achievable, rather than the false promises and half measures. If only they had the balls to write it into their manifesto (which neither Labour or the Conservatives will do as it will force further divides within)

[Hibrandenburg]

If her intent is to wear everyone down she's doing a great job. Just keep kicking the can down the road while the country sits in limbo.
Given the shambles it all is, they'd be better to take it off the table, re-group and deliver something achievable, rather than the false promises and half measures. If only they had the balls to write it into their manifesto (which neither Labour or the Conservatives will do as it will force further divides within)

The tactic is to bring the whole shambles to the edge of the abiss with a binary choice of take it or leave it.

[JeMeSouviens]

Did they mention how long the extension might be?

If i recall correctly, the EU not have to agree to this (all 27 other members) and previously said this was 'not desired' due to upcoming European elections.

Yes, the EU has to agree. The chatter* is they would be minded to agree to an extension but would prefer either a short one if parliament has passed a meaningful vote (har, har) or a long one until the end of 2021 if they haven't. In the latter scenario (in fact in any extension beoyond the end of June this year) the UK would have to participate in EU elections.

* eg. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/24/brexit-could-be-delayed-until-2021-eu-sources-reveal

[Hibbyradge]

No it was just the odds for an extension. It would seem ridiculous to vote in the European elections but I still think a deal will be done as the ERG group might not want to risk no Brexit at all, which this is where we could be heading.

The vote later this week on whether to take no deal Brexit off the table will be the one to watch out for.

I thought ERG were desperate for no deal.

[JeMeSouviens]

I thought ERG were desperate for no deal.

They are. It looks likely that no deal will (finally) be removed from the table this week though either the Cooper/Letwin amendment which should be voted on on Wednesday or by May caving in and u-turning (while presumably furiously denying she's doing so :rolleyes:) beforehand to avoid yet another embarrassing defeat.

[Fife-Hibee]

May says there's a real determination to leave on the 29th of March.

Aye, the determination of her and her husband.

[Jack Hackett]

May says there's a real determination to leave on the 29th of March.

Aye, the determination of her and her husband.

The denial is staggering. I can only assume the dogma is to impress the ERG while she knows it ain't happening

[Hibbyradge]

UK insurers say no-deal Brexit would be 'act of economic self-harm'

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/25/uk-insurers-say-no-deal-brexit-would-be-act-of-economic-self-harm-abi?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Hibbyradge]

Labour to back moves for second Brexit referendum

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/25/labour-to-back-moves-for-second-brexit-referendum?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Ozyhibby]

Labour to back moves for second Brexit referendum

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/25/labour-to-back-moves-for-second-brexit-referendum?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

TIG breakaway is a success then. No way would Corbyn have done this without the threat of more resignations.


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