Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[G B Young]

"was" totally irrelevant to the next PM

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He's the man who would have led us into the supposedly sunny new world of an independent Scotland had the result gone the other way in 2014. If found guilty of any or all of the 14 charges he faces it would have been irrelevant had the allegations surfaced before or after he took up the highest political position in the country.

[Callum_62]

He's the man who would have led us into the supposedly sunny new world of an independent Scotland had the result gone the other way in 2014. If found guilty of any or all of the 14 charges he faces it would have been irrelevant had the allegations surfaced before or after he took up the highest political position in the country.

Again, relevance to our new 2019 PM?

This whole place is literally a pissing contest of political points scoring

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[Hibernia&Alba]

Genius :top marks



https://youtu.be/kQSbav9GFfI

[Bristolhibby]

Again, relevance to our new 2019 PM?

This whole place is literally a pissing contest of political points scoring

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Correct. It smacks of the Old Firm whataboutary.

“Aye, but they Tims/Huns did (insert outrage)”.

J

[Hibrandenburg]

Guilty of what in Johnson's case?

He's definitely a bigot, almost certainly racist, undoubtedly misogynist and now suspected of domestic abuse. No way should he even be considered for the job but he's being chosen as leader by our morally corrupt Tory party.

[Hibrandenburg]

Can you clarify, are you suggesting a guilty Alex Salmond is equivalent to the current gaffe prone and buffoon Boris Johnson?

See above post and no. I'm say if guilty the none of them should ever be allowed to lead and represent a country.

[Hibrandenburg]

He was First Minister of Scotland for seven years, twice leader of Scotland's biggest political party and a long-serving Westminster MP. Fair to say he's occupied high office.

As soon as I've finished my time machine I'll pop back and let us know that there's a few accusations hanging over Alex Salmonds head. On the mean time you sort Boris out.

[James310]

See above post and no. I'm say if guilty the none of them should ever be allowed to lead and represent a country.

Agreed, thanks for clarifying. Some of our fellow posters were not so forthcoming.

[marinello59]

It doesn't need to be equivalent. Boris Johnson has openly done quite enough already not to be anywhere near the top job. He doesn't need to be found guilty of anything else, he's openly guilty of things that should stop him in his tracks. But England is full of mentalists just like the US and the more openly criminal and racist he is, the more the white people of middle England love "good old Bojo".

Alex isn't openly guilty of anything thus far. So it's impossible to compare him to Boris at this moment in time. However, if he is found guilty, you can be sure he won't be near a top job ever again in Scotland, because we're not complete nutjobs up here.


Just the minority non-racist ones.



If you want to write off openly racist comments as "gaffe ridden", then that's your business. Although i'd imagine most people in Scotland would disagree with you.


Scotland probably has the same percentage of racist bigots as England.

[Ozyhibby]

Scotland probably has the same percentage of racist bigots as England.

I think we have less.


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[marinello59]

I think we have less.


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Do you agree with Fife that the majority of English are racist bigots whilst it’s a minority in Scotland?
I wish I could find it but the last research I saw showed that we shared pretty much the same values as our Southern neighbours.

[James310]

I wonder if the English think the majority of Scots are a bunch of sectarian bigots?

[James310]

I think we have less.


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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44040251


Scotland had a higher rate of murders that were known or suspected to have a racist element than the rest of the UK, at 1.8 murders per million people compared to 1.3 between 2000 and the 2013.

SNP MSP Ivan McKee, the deputy convener of the group, said: "We have never shied away from the fact that Scotland is no more immune from Islamophobia and racism than anywhere else and that this serious problem must be tackled head-on.

Does not really back up your point does it?

[Smartie]

I wonder if the English think the majority of Scots are a bunch of sectarian bigots?

That is a decent point.

We have a cultural acceptance of certain types of bigotry in Scotland, which makes it harder to point the finger elsewhere.

I don't know whose racism problem is worse overall but the 2 are certainly different. I have a few Scottish/ Asian mates who would all swear that they experience significantly less racism than family members of theirs do down South. Having said that, would you fancy your chances much in Larkhall or Kilwinning if you were from the emerald isle? It may be that Scots express less anti-English sentiment than vice versa but the attitude our Union Flag wielding hun chums display towards the Irish means that we can't really claim too much moral high ground here. A fair bit of islamophobia has crept in amongst this mob too.

Not sure exactly what side of what argument I'm on here.

[Peevemor]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44040251


Scotland had a higher rate of murders that were known or suspected to have a racist element than the rest of the UK, at 1.8 murders per million people compared to 1.3 between 2000 and the 2013.

SNP MSP Ivan McKee, the deputy convener of the group, said: "We have never shied away from the fact that Scotland is no more immune from Islamophobia and racism than anywhere else and that this serious problem must be tackled head-on.

Does not really back up your point does it?

What do you think of Hibs new strips, the sponsorship thing, the guys we've signed, the rumoured signing targets?

Oh I forgot, you don't have an opinion on any of that do you?

Your posts are exclusively political and I wonder how many forums you are currently pleasuring with your non-Hibs, non-football contributions.

[Hibbyradge]

There's a lot of racism, bigotry and intolerance in Scotland. It's nonsense to suggest that being born north of the border somehow renders people more multicultural.

The fact that people who openly admit that their default position is to dislike/hate "The English" are tolerated, even on this forum, in itself debunks the myth that we're all Jock Tamson's bairns.

FWIW, I know loads of English people, none of whom are racist.

[James310]

What do you think of Hibs new strips, the sponsorship thing, the guys we've signed, the rumoured signing targets?

Oh I forgot, you don't have an opinion on any of that do you?

Your posts are exclusively political and I wonder how many forums you are currently pleasuring with your non-Hibs, non-football contributions.

Put me on ignore, do us both a favour.

[marinello59]

That is a decent point.

We have a cultural acceptance of certain types of bigotry in Scotland, which makes it harder to point the finger elsewhere.

I don't know whose racism problem is worse overall but the 2 are certainly different. I have a few Scottish/ Asian mates who would all swear that they experience significantly less racism than family members of theirs do down South. Having said that, would you fancy your chances much in Larkhall or Kilwinning if you were from the emerald isle? It may be that Scots express less anti-English sentiment than vice versa but with the attitude our Union Flag wielding hun chums display towards the Irish means that we can't really claim too much moral high ground here. A fair bit of islamophobia has crept in amongst this mob too.

Not sure exactly what side of what argument I'm on here.

I think you've made a decent argument for us being pretty much the same whichever side of the border we live.
I don't think its a case of claiming the moral high ground. There are problems due to bigotry of whatever kind all over the UK but to suggest that the majority of either country are bigots just seems plain wrong to me. The vast majority of us, Scots or English, are decent human beings willing to live and let live. Unless I'm mixing with the wrong people of course. :greengrin

[Peevemor]

Put me on ignore, do us both a favour.

You can ignore me if you want or just continue to avoid the question.

This is a forum for Hibs supporters or those of other clubs to talk about Hibs and all things football.

I've yet to see a single post that suggests your in any way interested in football, let alone Hibs.

As for the non-sport topics, I think it's both informative and healthy that different political views are represented. You're pretty lucid in your anti-SNP posts, but outwith that you contribute nothing.

So is your sole objective on here to try to influence how .netters vote?

[James310]

You can ignore me if you want or just continue to avoid the question.

This is a forum for Hibs supporters or those of other clubs to talk about Hibs and all things football.

I've yet to see a single post that suggests your in any way interested in football, let alone Hibs.

As for the non-sport topics, I think it's both informative and healthy that different political views are represented. You're pretty lucid in your anti-SNP posts, but outwith that you contribute nothing.

So is your sole objective on here to try to influence how .netters vote?

Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

[grunt]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/d858eb0ab7e0075ffb6e07bee0be2831.jpg




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D95auaPXYAAunnj?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Peevemor]

Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

I don't know how I'll sleep tonight.

He still didn't answer my question either.

[The Modfather]

There's a lot of racism, bigotry and intolerance in Scotland. It's nonsense to suggest that being born north of the border somehow renders people more multicultural.

The fact that people who openly admit that their default position is to dislike/hate "The English" are tolerated, even on this forum, in itself debunks the myth that we're all Jock Tamson's bairns.

FWIW, I know loads of English people, none of whom are racist.

To be fair, anecdotally, I'd say we have a bigger sectarian problem than England does and they have a bigger problem with racism than we do. That doesn't make us better or worse than the English (we're better for many other reasons :greengrin), just means we have different problems but a commonality that neither issue belongs in 2019.

[The Modfather]

Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

To be fair, I think it’s a valid question Peevemor asked. I raised a similar point on the Positives Of The Union thread, asking why for someone as active on here as you are your posts are almost exclusively about Scottish Independence despite the many threads discussing other things, namely Brexit. Not long after you decided you would stop posting on that thread.

Are you a better together activist?

[Jack]

Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

This is a community of like-minded football fans.

By not contributing to the discussions with the wider community it's not surprising some members of that community are expressing concern that your reason for being here is questionable.

[James310]

To be fair, I think it’s a valid question Peevemor asked. I raised a similar point on the Positives Of The Union thread, asking why for someone as active on here as you are your posts are almost exclusively about Scottish Independence despite the many threads discussing other things, namely Brexit. Not long after you decided you would stop posting on that thread.

Are you a better together activist?

I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

[Hibbyradge]

I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

I was being genuine when I asked people to give their reasons for voting Tory. Naive maybe, but genuine.

[Hibbyradge]

I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

Are you a Hibs fan?

[Peevemor]

Are you a Hibs fan?

I asked before. He said he is, but I find it strange that someone with such strong opinions on certain subjects has absolutely nothing to say when it comes to Hibs.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

All are welcome in the Hibs family. It isn't the Old Firm whereby fans are expected to subscribe to a set of political/religious beliefs in order to be accepted. Fundamentally we are football club, not a political party, and supporting the team is the only requirement. Being a Conservative doesn't make you any less a Hibby; your beliefs are your own business. Having said that, it shouldn't come as a shock that the majority seem to hold progressive/left of centre views, given Scotland's political landscape and Hibs' history of being Edinburgh's immigrant/anti-establishment club. Tories are pretty thin on the ground in the central belt, once you leave Ibrox.

[Fife-Hibee]

I asked before. He said he is, but I find it strange that someone with such strong opinions on certain subjects has absolutely nothing to say when it comes to Hibs.

In his defence, it's the most dire time of the year when it comes to club football. Mostly just ramblings and transfer rumours, same as every year at this time.

[Peevemor]

Oooooh! She's getting humpty now...

[Curried]

Bit harsh, pal. Surely we welcome diversity, including diverse opinions?

My apologies H&A, I do welcome all opinions, but the opinions proffered are *****.

[Hibrandenburg]

I wonder if the English think the majority of Scots are a bunch of sectarian bigots?

In my subjective experience yes. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been asked if I support Rangers or Celtic, even after I've told them I'm a Hibby.

[Hibrandenburg]

That is a decent point.

We have a cultural acceptance of certain types of bigotry in Scotland, which makes it harder to point the finger elsewhere.

I don't know whose racism problem is worse overall but the 2 are certainly different. I have a few Scottish/ Asian mates who would all swear that they experience significantly less racism than family members of theirs do down South. Having said that, would you fancy your chances much in Larkhall or Kilwinning if you were from the emerald isle? It may be that Scots express less anti-English sentiment than vice versa but the attitude our Union Flag wielding hun chums display towards the Irish means that we can't really claim too much moral high ground here. A fair bit of islamophobia has crept in amongst this mob too.

Not sure exactly what side of what argument I'm on here.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that a nation that has been on the end of a divide and conquer policy for centuries, actually hates it's own people more than others. Sectarianism is a product of the Union.

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/tomcopley/status/1143491986768502786?s=09

[emoji51] So bad it should be laughable

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[JeMeSouviens]

He's the man who would have led us into the supposedly sunny new world of an independent Scotland had the result gone the other way in 2014. If found guilty of any or all of the 14 charges he faces it would have been irrelevant had the allegations surfaced before or after he took up the highest political position in the country.

If he’s guilty of any of the things he’s charged with he should and will end up in jail, not high office.

[Mibbes Aye]

It shouldn't come as a surprise that a nation that has been on the end of a divide and conquer policy for centuries, actually hates it's own people more than others. Sectarianism is a product of the Union.

Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://twitter.com/tomcopley/status/1143491986768502786?s=09

[emoji51] So bad it should be laughable

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He's obviously lying through his teeth too. His hobby is adultery.

[Fife-Hibee]

Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

Why do you keep using the term "nationalist"? Thanks to brexit, we're now all officially nationalists including yourself. Whether you're behind an independent Scotland, or Scotland remaining in a UK that is about to break off from Europe. You are backing a form of nationalism.

Also, there's a difference between what is and what should be. Once again, you're confusing reality with your own idealistic view of the world. Scots really are their own worst enemies. It's not a question of whether we should be or not. We quite simply are.

[Hibrandenburg]

Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

[Peevemor]

In his defence, it's the most dire time of the year when it comes to club football. Mostly just ramblings and transfer rumours, same as every year at this time.

I'd agree with you if he posted anything Hibs or even football related during the season.

He doesn't. His posts are almost exclusively anti-SNP/independence, which is why I question whether he has his place on hibs.net (and it's nothing to do with his political views).

[Moulin Yarns]

Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?


Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

To settle the argument :wink:, It was the Act of Settlement 1701 that started the whole sectarian problem in the UK when it was decided that catholics were forever banned from ever sitting upon the English (and then British) throne. If only King Billy had it in him to sire a child it may never have happened :greengrin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Settlement_1701

[Fife-Hibee]

I'd agree with you if he posted anything Hibs or even football related during the season.

He doesn't. His posts are almost exclusively anti-SNP/independence, which is why I question whether he has his place on hibs.net (and it's nothing to do with his political views).

Hard to say. I know facebook and twitter are rife with anti-independence trolls who spend 24/7 attacking any pro-independence posts. Their attacks seem very well planned and coordinated as well, definitely something going on. I'm sure we're all familiar with "Simon Gillespie" and "Del Rashid" amongst other names that seem to be everywhere.

[Mibbes Aye]

Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

It is crazy how nationalists switch from criticising their opponents for portraying the Scottish people as weak and malleable, then choose to describe the Scottish people as weak and malleable themselves.

The point about sectarianism was touched upon in other posts relating to racism. I think it is irrefutable that these fractures often arise, and this is the case around the world, when there is extensive immigration or the perception of extensive immigration by people who can be portrayed as ‘other’ or ‘different’.

Some people will automatically be threatened by that, which is tragic but doesn’t make it any less true. More sinisterly, some people will manipulate that fear to strengthen their own position or status. That happens at every level and isn’t some remote, dastardly plot by ‘London’., whatever that means.

As for sectarianism in the south of Ireland, the proportion of Protestants is so small that it is impossible to create a narrative around existential threat, it would be ludicrous. There’s a bunch of other factors but that is probably the biggest and crudest one.

I do agree with you to an extent in terms of Britain’s colonial history. Clear evidence of a policy and practice of ‘divide and conquer’ in far-flung lands. And of course that classic Yes Minister sketch about Britain’s role in Europe :greengrin

[Jack]

Hard to say. I know facebook and twitter are rife with anti-independence trolls who spend 24/7 attacking any pro-independence posts. Their attacks seem very well planned and coordinated as well, definitely something going on. I'm sure we're all familiar with "Simon Gillespie" and "Del Rashid" amongst other names that seem to be everywhere.

One of the first parties to effectively use social media was, if I remember correctly, was the SNP in 2007. I think they've fallen well behind these days ... well behind the Russians anyway!!!

[Fife-Hibee]

One of the first parties to effectively use social media was, if I remember correctly, was the SNP in 2007. I think they've fallen well behind these days ... well behind the Russians anyway!!!

The Russians, the US and the UK. But then, how can they compete with that?

[ronaldo7]

Scottish Tories suggesting a boycott of the proposed citizens assemblies.

What are they scared of?

[Fife-Hibee]

Scottish Tories suggesting a boycott of the proposed citizens assemblies.

What are they scared of?

Great idea! In fact, they should just boycott Scotland altogether. That'll show us. :agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

Great idea! In fact, they should just boycott Scotland altogether. That'll show us. :agree:

Looks like they already have.


https://twitter.com/fr4ser/status/1143859270934511616?s=09

[Fife-Hibee]

Looks like they already have.


https://twitter.com/fr4ser/status/1143859270934511616?s=09

How often have we seen that? They have a habit of scurrying off as soon as "scandal" is mentioned.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm still struggling to get my head around the UGOV poll of Conservative Party members. The Unionist party whose members will accept the break up of the Union for Brexit. The party which claims economic competence (nae laughing) willing to tank the economy for Brexit. And, most bizarrely of all, members of a party who are prepared to accept the destuction of the party they belong to, just as long as they get Brexit. These people are the only people who get to choose our next prime minister!

They have lost their minds and become a single issue cult. It's very like what's happened to U.S. Republicans with Trump.

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm still struggling to get my head around the UGOV poll of Conservative Party members. The Unionist party whose members will accept the break up of the Union for Brexit. The party which claims economic competence (nae laughing) willing to tank the economy for Brexit. And, most bizarrely of all, members of a party who are prepared to accept the destuction of the party they belong to, just as long as they get Brexit. These people are the only people who get to choose our next prime minister!

They have lost their minds and become a single issue cult. It's very like what's happened to U.S. Republicans with Trump.

Why? The tories have always been an English nationalist party. Their "unionism" shtick is and always has been colonialism wrapped up as "political unity" to fool docile Scots, Welsh and Irishmen.

None of this should be a shock to anyone who has woken up to it over the years. Sadly, many still don't get it.

[Moulin Yarns]

Why? The tories have always been an English nationalist party. Their "unionism" shtick is and always has been colonialism wrapped up as "political unity" to fool docile Scots, Welsh and Irishmen.

None of this should be a shock to anyone who has woken up to it over the years. Sadly, many still don't get it.

How do you explain the Conservatives winning most Westminster seats in Scotland before 1955?

[Fife-Hibee]

How do you explain the Conservatives winning most Westminster seats in Scotland before 1955?

Because back then was a time when Scotland actually believed in the "unionist" nonsense being spouted by the tories. Just because most of Scotland fell for it back then, doesn't mean the rhetoric was anymore credible back then than it is today. People just didn't have access to anywhere near the level of information they have access to today. People were nowhere near as free thinking back then. Their thoughts and feelings were molded and shaped by what they were being spoonfed in the mainstream media.

We would probably still be making the same mistakes today, if technology hadn't advanced to the level that it has.

[Hibbyradge]

Because back then was a time when Scotland actually believed in the "unionist" nonsense being spouted by the tories. Just because most of Scotland fell for it back then, doesn't mean the rhetoric was anymore credible back then than it is today. People just didn't have access to anywhere near the level of information they have access to today. People were nowhere near as free thinking back then. Their thoughts and feelings were molded and shaped by what they were being spoonfed in the mainstream media.

We would probably still be making the same mistakes today, if technology hadn't advanced to the level that it has.

Most people in Scotland believed enough in the Union 5 years ago to vote to stay in it.

Have there been big technological advances since then?

:dunno:

[marinello59]

Because back then was a time when Scotland actually believed in the "unionist" nonsense being spouted by the tories. Just because most of Scotland fell for it back then, doesn't mean the rhetoric was anymore credible back then than it is today. People just didn't have access to anywhere near the level of information they have access to today. People were nowhere near as free thinking back then. Their thoughts and feelings were molded and shaped by what they were being spoonfed in the mainstream media.

We would probably still be making the same mistakes today, if technology hadn't advanced to the level that it has.

The constitution wasn’t the over riding issue then, people, including working class people , voted Tory for a variety of reasons. To suggest they were simply ill informed is ludicrous.
James Connolly left school in his very early teens yet went on to become a great political writer, no internet then. . There was a long tradition of self education amongst the working class all over the UK. Suggesting people were nowhere near as free thinking really is nonsense.

[jonty]

Looks like they already have.


https://twitter.com/fr4ser/status/1143859270934511616?s=09

do we have a roll call (or rogues gallery) of who attended?

[Crunchie]

Why? The tories have always been an English nationalist party. Their "unionism" shtick is and always has been colonialism wrapped up as "political unity" to fool docile Scots, Welsh and Irishmen.

None of this should be a shock to anyone who has woken up to it over the years. Sadly, many still don't get it.

I was a proud party member and voted for Independence, I was gutted when we lost.

I've since changed my mind and I'm glad we lost. I am now a proud Conservative and will be delighted when we leave the EU. I like many other former SNP members would rather be part of a United Kingdom than a EU that has more tiers than a posh wedding cake.

Rule Brittania.

[Fife-Hibee]

I was a proud party member and voted for Independence, I was gutted when we lost.

I've since changed my mind and I'm glad we lost. I am now a proud Conservative and will be delighted when we leave the EU. I like many other former SNP members would rather be part of a United Kingdom than a EU that has more tiers than a posh wedding cake.

Rule Brittania.

:faf:

The EU has 3 tiers of Government. The first tier are voted in by the general public of each country. The 2nd and 3rd tiers are voted in by those we elect in the 1st tier.

The UK also has 3 tiers of Government. The people we elect, the unelected House of Lords, followed by an unelected Head of State.

:faf:

[Fife-Hibee]

Most people in Scotland believed enough in the Union 5 years ago to vote to stay in it.

Have there been big technological advances since then?

:dunno:

You make it sound like there wasn't a huge shift towards independence during that time? The status quo may have won, but it was considerably more uncomfortable than they were expecting it to be. It prompted hundreds of thousands of people across Scotland to question the narrative they were being fed. That's why they never want to offer Scotland another one. Despite all of the mass propaganda they threw at us, the momentum continued to shift towards independence. (That wouldn't have been the case had it been held in the 50s)


The constitution wasn’t the over riding issue then, people, including working class people , voted Tory for a variety of reasons. To suggest they were simply ill informed is ludicrous.
James Connolly left school in his very early teens yet went on to become a great political writer, no internet then. . There was a long tradition of self education amongst the working class all over the UK. Suggesting people were nowhere near as free thinking really is nonsense.

Self educated with what? The only material they had access to was the material that was provided. Sure, there were libraries with thousands of books. But the points of view on offer were severely limited. Where as the information available now is pretty much unlimited, which is why people question things a great deal more now than they did back then. People went with the program back then. MSM was a respectable trusted source of information. Compare that to now, where the trust ratings are at an all time low. Perceptions are being challenged like never before.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I was a proud party member and voted for Independence, I was gutted when we lost.

I've since changed my mind and I'm glad we lost. I am now a proud Conservative and will be delighted when we leave the EU. I like many other former SNP members would rather be part of a United Kingdom than a EU that has more tiers than a posh wedding cake.

Rule Brittania.

Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?

[marinello59]

Self educated with what? The only material they had access to was the material that was provided. Sure, there were libraries with thousands of books. But the points of view on offer were severely limited. Where as the information available now is pretty much unlimited, which is why people question things a great deal more now than they did back then. People went with the program back then. MSM was a respectable trusted source of information. Compare that to now, where the trust ratings are at an all time low. Perceptions are being challenged like never before.

If Donald trump rewrote history this is what it would look like.

[Hibrandenburg]

Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?

Maybe the price was right?:dunno:

[Fife-Hibee]

If Donald trump rewrote history this is what it would look like.

Is that how you attempt to mute any point you don't agree with? Not by countering it with anything of your own, but by comparing it to Trump? You've done it a few times now. You seem rather obsessed over someone you claim not to be too fond of.

[degenerated]

I asked before. He said he is, but I find it strange that someone with such strong opinions on certain subjects has absolutely nothing to say when it comes to Hibs.Brigade 77 work in mysterious ways :greengrin

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

Is that how you attempt to mute any point you don't agree with? Not by countering it with anything of your own, but by comparing it to Trump? You've done it a few times now. You seem rather obsessed over someone you claim not to be too fond of.

I wouldn't say I was obsessed. He is an interesting character though don't you think? He constantly denounces everything in the MSM as fake news. Then when challenged to back up some of his more outlandish statements he totally fails to do so despite claiming to have some unique insight that the establishment lacks. You gotta love him. :greengrin

Anyway your claim that prior to the internet that the population were ill informed just doesn't stack up. As you mentioned libraries were a wonderful resource. Are you dismissing political societies, the work down by trade unions to educate and motivate, the WEA. Pamphlets? Political journals etc . And lets not forget the education system itself in Scotland which until a generation or so ago was the envy of other countries.
There seems to be a trend now to dismiss absolutely everything in the so called MSM yet there is still a lot of fine investigative journalism and writing out there. Over the years there have been more than a few landmark documentaries and dramas that not only informed, they sparked action to be taken. I'll use 'Cathy come Home' as an example.
The internet has made getting information faster but if you think that prior to it's arrival the population as a whole were docilely accepting everything thrown at it as they were being kept in ignorance then I'll respectfully suggest you need to do a bit more research. You could do it on this new fangled internet thingy or how about visiting a library?:greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

do we have a roll call (or rogues gallery) of who attended?

It will be somewhere, maybe Hansard or the Gov website? But it looks like there are more SNP MPs than all other parties put together from the photograph.

The proceedings are on Hansard, but it would take ages to go through it and get the names of those that spoke, and the sun is shining :wink:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-06-26/debates/1A5B866D-893C-42BA-9BB2-23FEDBA2304D/Immigration

[Moulin Yarns]

Self educated with what? The only material they had access to was the material that was provided. Sure, there were libraries with thousands of books. But the points of view on offer were severely limited. Where as the information available now is pretty much unlimited, which is why people question things a great deal more now than they did back then. People went with the program back then. MSM was a respectable trusted source of information. Compare that to now, where the trust ratings are at an all time low. Perceptions are being challenged like never before.

You have to remember that Labour became the party of the people post WW2. I haven't looked at the timeline but prewar it was Liberal and Tories, the Labour Part first came to power in the 1920s, after the war Labour created the NHS and welfare state. What was not to like about Labour and the Tories had to reinvent themselves, like New Labour had to do under Blair

[The Modfather]

I wouldn't say I was obsessed. He is an interesting character though don't you think? He constantly denounces everything in the MSM as fake news. Then when challenged to back up some of his more outlandish statements he totally fails to do so despite claiming to have some unique insight that the establishment lacks. You gotta love him. :greengrin

Are you talking about Trunp or Fife Hibee here? :devil:

[Hibrandenburg]

Are you talking about Trunp or Fife Hibee here? :devil:

:faf: Glad it wasn't just me.

[Hibbyradge]

You make it sound like there wasn't a huge shift towards independence during that time? The status quo may have won, but it was considerably more uncomfortable than they were expecting it to be. It prompted hundreds of thousands of people across Scotland to question the narrative they were being fed. That's why they never want to offer Scotland another one. Despite all of the mass propaganda they threw at us, the momentum continued to shift towards independence. (That wouldn't have been the case had it been held in the 50s)




You were rejoicing that technological advances since the 1960s meant that Scotland didn't believe in the "Unionist nonsense" any more.

I merely pointed out that the last time Scotland was asked about it, 5 years ago, they did still believe in it.

I could have pointed out that the Tories vote in Scotland has been increasing recently too, but I didn't want to stress you out too much.

You make so much up that I think it's important to carry out the occasional Fife-Hibee fact check.

Happy to help.

[Hibbyradge]

Self educated with what? The only material they had access to was the material that was provided. Sure, there were libraries with thousands of books. But the points of view on offer were severely limited. Where as the information available now is pretty much unlimited, which is why people question things a great deal more now than they did back then. People went with the program back then. MSM was a respectable trusted source of information. Compare that to now, where the trust ratings are at an all time low. Perceptions are being challenged like never before.

:faf:

What are you slavering about?

The poor Scots were kept in the dark about politics and were denied access to books.

You forgot to mention that the bad Tories would rip out any pages that hinted that there might be another way.

What an absolute crock of imaginery, patronising crap.

Prior to the Conservatives winning in 1955, the Liberals dominated Scottish politics. However, we had red Clyde electing Labour MPs, communist MPs were elected, one in your own neck of the woods, and the Nationalist movement was starting to build.

The suggestion that Scots were too dim to know what choices there were is atrocious and you should be ashamed.

I expect, however, that instead of contrition, you'll double down on your insulting nonsense.

[Hibbyradge]

If Donald trump rewrote history this is what it would look like.

Precisely.

Or Boris.

[Crunchie]

Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/01/thousands-scottish-leave-voters-deserted-snp-general-election/

I was one of the yes/leave voters.

[Crunchie]

:faf:

The EU has 3 tiers of Government. The first tier are voted in by the general public of each country. The 2nd and 3rd tiers are voted in by those we elect in the 1st tier.

The UK also has 3 tiers of Government. The people we elect, the unelected House of Lords, followed by an unelected Head of State.

:faf:
The House of Lords which I am totally against, is a body of people, not a single person wielding enormous power like Juncker and Tusk.

Our head of state I don't consider a tier of government, you'll probably argue differently though. Irrespective I am not, and never have been a fan of the EU, and the sooner we're out the better as far as I'm concerned.

I love the smileys btw :thumbsup:

[Bristolhibby]

I was a proud party member and voted for Independence, I was gutted when we lost.

I've since changed my mind and I'm glad we lost. I am now a proud Conservative and will be delighted when we leave the EU. I like many other former SNP members would rather be part of a United Kingdom than a EU that has more tiers than a posh wedding cake.

Rule Brittania.

A yes voting Tory. Were you, Aye?

J

[Bristolhibby]

Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?

I think he’s saying he was a Yes voting Tory. A rare breed indeed.

Or maybe he isn’t.

J

[Hibrandenburg]

It is crazy how nationalists switch from criticising their opponents for portraying the Scottish people as weak and malleable, then choose to describe the Scottish people as weak and malleable themselves.

The point about sectarianism was touched upon in other posts relating to racism. I think it is irrefutable that these fractures often arise, and this is the case around the world, when there is extensive immigration or the perception of extensive immigration by people who can be portrayed as ‘other’ or ‘different’.

Some people will automatically be threatened by that, which is tragic but doesn’t make it any less true. More sinisterly, some people will manipulate that fear to strengthen their own position or status. That happens at every level and isn’t some remote, dastardly plot by ‘London’., whatever that means.

As for sectarianism in the south of Ireland, the proportion of Protestants is so small that it is impossible to create a narrative around existential threat, it would be ludicrous. There’s a bunch of other factors but that is probably the biggest and crudest one.

I do agree with you to an extent in terms of Britain’s colonial history. Clear evidence of a policy and practice of ‘divide and conquer’ in far-flung lands. And of course that classic Yes Minister sketch about Britain’s role in Europe :greengrin

Scotland isn't just black and white, there's lots of grey in there too especially regarding our identity. We've fought wars because we identify ourselves differently. That's been a constant throughout our history and although the need to batter each other has subsided somewhat, the passion is still a dividing factor. Our identity is full of paradoxes like any other country that has an near 50/50 divide in opinion about who or what we really are. You see Scotland as an integral part of the UK that gets fair treatment from a parliament it helps elect, I think we're a second thought in the Westminster decision making process and could do better if Scotland had full control over it's own affairs.

London has used divide and conquer policy world wide for centuries and to assume that Scotland is somehow the exception is pretty naive but I don't think you really believe that yourself. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

The House of Lords which I am totally against, is a body of people, not a single person wielding enormous power like Juncker and Tusk.

Our head of state I don't consider a tier of government, you'll probably argue differently though. Irrespective I am not, and never have been a fan of the EU, and the sooner we're out the better as far as I'm concerned.

I love the smileys btw :thumbsup:

Juncker and Tusk don't wield enormous power. They are influential, yes, but in reality they are constrained by the members of the European Council, ie. the heads of govt in the member states.

[JeMeSouviens]

How do you explain the Conservatives winning most Westminster seats in Scotland before 1955?

At the risk of being a stuck record, that was the Scottish Unionist party which had its roots in the 19th century Liberals and was distinctively Scottish (and Presbyterian and anti-Catholic as well which wasn't insignificant). It wasn't absorbed into the UK Conservative party until the 60s and their vote has been in decline practically ever since, with a slight upturn in recent years.

Their has been agitation of some sort for Scottish self government in one form or another since the formation of the Union. From the Jacobites* through the Radicals, the Liberal home rulers, Independent Labour home rulers, the Scots covenant of the 50s and eventually the rise of the SNP.

Independence might be the mainstream movement of Scottish self government now, but only because the UK has missed literally centuries of opportunities to create some sort of federal/confederal state that allowed us complete domestic self governance.


* primarily an uprising of dynastic loyalty to the Stewarts but used the promise of dissolving the Union to build support in Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

Our Prime minister in waiting. [emoji35]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190628/36c7a82cb7bff3e0328b93aa4f08c48c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190628/ddf7c5fcd75f3adca71a230f13ac2c93.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190628/499e8a4afc03a6c8420d49d1281ae441.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190628/4b506f92a0b44e2ea1e62ece01024137.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fife-Hibee]

Our Prime minister in waiting.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190628/4b506f92a0b44e2ea1e62ece01024137.jpg


:faf:

Somebody should tell Boris that we're fine with that. In fact, we'll just stop paying national insurance contributions and UK taxes in general. We'll stop paying our share towards servicing UK Government debt. Afterall, they won't be spending their borrowings on us anymore.

We'll just leave them to it.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hunt gaining ground on ****:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/28/jeremy-hunt-now-leads-boris-johnson-publics-prefer

BoJo still ahead among the Tory selectorate but will they ditch him if Hunt starts to look a better bet with the wider electorate?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Hunt gaining ground on ****:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/28/jeremy-hunt-now-leads-boris-johnson-publics-prefer

BoJo still ahead among the Tory selectorate but will they ditch him if Hunt starts to look a better bet with the wider electorate?

Though the Conservative Party has historically been ruthless with its leaders, in order to win elections, they have been fixated on Brexit for decades, and Hunt was a remainer, meaning he's a traitor to the hardcore. Bozo will win easily.

[Fife-Hibee]

Hunt gaining ground on ****:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/28/jeremy-hunt-now-leads-boris-johnson-publics-prefer

BoJo still ahead among the Tory selectorate but will they ditch him if Hunt starts to look a better bet with the wider electorate?

36% think Boris has a "likable personality".

[lord bunberry]

36% think Boris has a "likable personality".
He has got a likeable personality. He plays the harmless bumbling fool to perfection. If he wasn’t a politician it would be quite plausible that the fact he is a lying racist ******* wouldn’t even have come to light. Politics has become more and more a popularity contest, it’s quite ironic that the leadership campaign is competing with love island for tv ratings. The difference between the two contests is that love island is voted on by fans who fantasise about sleeping with the winner and the Tory leadership election is voted on by people who probably have slept with the winner.

[stoneyburn hibs]

He has got a likeable personality. He plays the harmless bumbling fool to perfection. If he wasn’t a politician it would be quite plausible that the fact he is a lying racist ******* wouldn’t even have come to light. Politics has become more and more a popularity contest, it’s quite ironic that the leadership campaign is competing with love island for tv ratings. The difference between the two contests is that love island is voted on by fans who fantasise about sleeping with the winner and the Tory leadership election is voted on by people who probably have slept with the winner.

Go Boris.

[Jack]

Though the Conservative Party has historically been ruthless with its leaders, in order to win elections, they have been fixated on Brexit for decades, and Hunt was a remainer, meaning he's a traitor to the hardcore. Bozo will win easily.

Boris sat on the fence until about 2 days before the vote. He has a knack of sitting on the fence till the last minute. He doesn't have an opinion for more than 12 seconds until he sees the reaction from the crowd.

More twists and turns than a snake on a fire pit.

[southsider]

Boris sat on the fence until about 2 days before the vote. He has a knack of sitting on the fence till the last minute. He doesn't have an opinion for more than 12 seconds until he sees the reaction from the crowd.

More twists and turns than a snake on a fire pit.
He is that twisted he sleeps in a corkscrew bed !

[Moulin Yarns]

If not already posted


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/26/mesmerising-boris-johnsons-bizarre-model-buses-claim-raises-eyebrows


(https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/26/mesmerising-boris-johnsons-bizarre-model-buses-claim-raises-eyebrows)
Conspiracy theorist think it is to deflect from the other bus, and it has worked if you google Boris bus, the more likely reason is a bus went past the window and there was a crate of wine in the corner of the room :greengrin

[stoneyburn hibs]

If not already posted


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/26/mesmerising-boris-johnsons-bizarre-model-buses-claim-raises-eyebrows


(https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/26/mesmerising-boris-johnsons-bizarre-model-buses-claim-raises-eyebrows)
Conspiracy theorist think it is to deflect from the other bus, and it has worked if you google Boris bus, the more likely reason is a bus went past the window and there was a crate of wine in the corner of the room :greengrin

I wonder if he puts the £350m stickers on his model buses.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Boris sat on the fence until about 2 days before the vote. He has a knack of sitting on the fence till the last minute. He doesn't have an opinion for more than 12 seconds until he sees the reaction from the crowd.

More twists and turns than a snake on a fire pit.

He's ruthlessly ambitious for sure. His calculation is always based upon what will advance his career and get him into Downing Street. Principle doesn't come into it.

[Fife-Hibee]

https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1145263568935358464

We're doomed I tell you!

[Fife-Hibee]

https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1145263568935358464

We're doomed I tell you!

No mention of this astonishing blunder in today's newspapers or any sign of it being repeated on Sky News or shown by or talked about on the BBC. Yet we've seen politicians on the left make more understandable blunders and they've been absolutely hounded by the media for days/weeks after. :rolleyes:

[lapsedhibee]

No mention of this astonishing blunder in today's newspapers or any sign of it being repeated on Sky News or shown by or talked about on the BBC. Yet we've seen politicians on the left make more understandable blunders and they've been absolutely hounded by the media for days/weeks after. :rolleyes:

It's not an astonishing blunder at all. Given that he's generally clueless about everything, he had a reasonable stab at one of the figures. If he'd said there was a separate rate for picaninnies, that would have been an astonishing blunder.

[Fife-Hibee]

It's not an astonishing blunder at all. Given that he's generally clueless about everything, he had a reasonable stab at one of the figures. If he'd said there was a separate rate for picaninnies, that would have been an astonishing blunder.

A reasonable stab? He said it was £10 p/h. Then when he was told that it was in fact only £8.21, he claimed to be talking about Londons living wage figure instead..... which to anybody that knows, is still £8.21 p/h....

The difference between £8.21 and £10.00 an hour may mean nothing to somebody like him or the well offers in our society. But try telling people on £8.21 an hour that it was a "reasonable stab".

[JeMeSouviens]

It's not an astonishing blunder at all. Given that he's generally clueless about everything, he had a reasonable stab at one of the figures. If he'd said there was a separate rate for picaninnies, that would have been an astonishing blunder.

I'm fairly astonished he knew there was such a thing.

[JeMeSouviens]

A reasonable stab? He said it was £10 p/h. Then when he was told that it was in fact only £8.21, he claimed to be talking about Londons living wage figure instead..... which to anybody that knows, is still £8.21 p/h....

The difference between £8.21 and £10.00 an hour may mean nothing to somebody like him or the well offers in our society. But try telling people on £8.21 an hour that it was a "reasonable stab".

Tories are a shower of ****s who only care about rich people and would happily kick the poor daily.

WHO KNEW????????

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm fairly astonished he knew there was such a thing.

It's worrying that he is aware of it. I'm sure he'll be looking to "correct" it when he gets the chance.

[lapsedhibee]

A reasonable stab? He said it was £10 p/h. Then when he was told that it was in fact only £8.21, he claimed to be talking about Londons living wage figure instead..... which to anybody that knows, is still £8.21 p/h....

The difference between £8.21 and £10.00 an hour may mean nothing to somebody like him or the well offers in our society. But try telling people on £8.21 an hour that it was a "reasonable stab".

But he didn't say it was £10 an hour. He said it was about £10 an hour.

Shirley the more important thing about hourly rates is that some people earn £8 or £10 an hour while others (including him) earn 40, 50 or 100 times that amount an hour. Bojoke should be getting slaughtered for wanting to increase that disparity by giving the latter group tax cuts, not the fact that he doesn't know the precise figures for this year.

[Fife-Hibee]

Tories are a shower of ****s who only care about rich people and would happily kick the poor daily.

WHO KNEW????????

Yes, but my point still stands. We see politicians on the left who aren't even in power being hounded by the media for making mistakes on more intricate figures. Yet here we are with the future PM who doesn't even know what the national living wage is and he's just given a free pass on it.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes, but my point still stands. We see politicians on the left who aren't even in power being hounded by the media for making mistakes on more intricate figures. Yet here we are with the future PM who doesn't even know what the national living wage is and he's just given a free pass on it.

It's almost as if the right own the media.

[JeMeSouviens]

It's worrying that he is aware of it. I'm sure he'll be looking to "correct" it when he gets the chance.

Yes, that's true. It's practically the only silver lining to Brexit that it's stopped the Tories getting up to much else.

[speedy_gonzales]

Yes, but my point still stands. We see politicians on the left who aren't even in power being hounded by the media for making mistakes on more intricate figures. Yet here we are with the future PM who doesn't even know what the national living wage is and he's just given a free pass on it.

Pints of milk apparently. Whenever journalists interview politicians (or celebs for that matter) on living costs they always ask the cost of a pint of milk!

[Sylar]

A reasonable stab? He said it was £10 p/h. Then when he was told that it was in fact only £8.21, he claimed to be talking about Londons living wage figure instead..... which to anybody that knows, is still £8.21 p/h....

The difference between £8.21 and £10.00 an hour may mean nothing to somebody like him or the well offers in our society. But try telling people on £8.21 an hour that it was a "reasonable stab".

Why would it shock you, that a London based MP (and former mayor of London) may have the value of the London Living Wage somewhere in his head (which is £10.55 p/h) more readily than the NLW? I wasn't entirely sure of the NLW - as you say, if you know it, you know it - anyone on a good salary, and who doesn't need to employ workers and pay them the NLW probably wouldn't know it.

I get that he's a politician, about to enter the fray as PM (most likely), but I'd wager there are a few on all sides of the HoC that couldn't answer you to the penny what it was.

I deplore Boris and most of what he stands for, but this is a poor attempt at point scoring.

[Fife-Hibee]

Why would it shock you, that a London based MP (and former mayor of London) may have the value of the London Living Wage somewhere in his head (which is £10.55 p/h) more readily than the NLW? I wasn't entirely sure of the NLW - as you say, if you know it, you know it - anyone on a good salary, and who doesn't need to employ workers and pay them the NLW probably wouldn't know it.

I get that he's a politician, about to enter the fray as PM (most likely), but I'd wager there are a few on all sides of the HoC that couldn't answer you to the penny what it was.

I deplore Boris and most of what he stands for, but this is a poor attempt at point scoring.

The national living wage is £8.21 in London, the same as everywhere else in the UK. Remember, the national living wage is simply a rebranding of the minimum wage. London does have a sort of secondary living wage system that "recommends" businesses pay £10.55 p/h. But businesses in London are under no legal obligation to pay it and those working entry level jobs in the public sector in London only get paid £8.21 an hour as the UK Government doesn't endorse the recommended London living wage.

Boris Johnson as future PM should have been fully aware of this. He is completely out of his depth and hasn't even stepped foot in office yet.

[Bristolhibby]

Pints of milk apparently. Whenever journalists interview politicians (or celebs for that matter) on living costs they always ask the cost of a pint of milk!

So why aren’t politicians not briefed on the national living wage and the price of milk?

Have it memorised!

Incidentally, I have no idea what a pint of milk is or until the other day what the living wage level was.

But then, I’m not vying to be Prime Minister.

J

[lapsedhibee]

So why aren’t politicians not briefed on the national living wage and the price of milk?

Have it memorised!

Incidentally, I have no idea what a pint of milk is or until the other day what the living wage level was.

But then, I’m not vying to be Prime Minister.

J

It's a quantity of nutritional fluid that humans steal from a potential calf.

[Bristolhibby]

It's a quantity of nutritional fluid that humans steal from a potential calf.

Haha

[JeMeSouviens]

Hunt promises to bring back fox hunting. ****. :rolleyes:

[Fife-Hibee]

Hunt promises to bring back fox hunting. ****. :rolleyes:

In that case. The Scottish Government should implement a shoot Jeremy Hunt on site policy.

[lapsedhibee]

Hunt promises to bring back fox hunting. ****. :rolleyes:

That gives Bojoke a dilemma. Should he go for dog fighting or bear baiting? :dunno:

[southsider]

Or sending 7 year old's up lums ? A race to the bottom between this cretin and the other one. One of those is going to be our PM. And Trump in the White House, God help us. If Scotland doesn't go for Independance now we never will.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not so much liars as trying to hide the truth. Lots of reports that IPSOS MORI did polls for the Conservatives on Scottish independence among other things. And they are keeping them secret, sort of.



https://twitter.com/YesTories/status/1146560325325611008?s=19

[lapsedhibee]

How can I find out whether I'm an Oppidan? It seems to be important.

[JeMeSouviens]

Couldn't agree more with this. Exactly what iScotland won't be:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/05/britain-run-self-serving-clique-crisis-narrow-section


The prime minister who got us into this Brexit mess a few years back went to the same school and joined the same supper club at the same university as the person who will most likely be prime minister in a few weeks’ time. Nobody thinks that is an uncanny coincidence. It’s how Britain works. It’s also why it’s not working.

[JeMeSouviens]

How can I find out whether I'm an Oppidan? It seems to be important.

If you had to ask, you're most probably a Wykehamist! :na na:

[lapsedhibee]

If you had to ask, you're most probably a Wykehamist! :na na:

Just so long as I don't have to **** a pig to fit in.

[southsider]

Tories are a shower of ****s who only care about rich people and would happily kick the poor daily.

WHO KNEW????????
Boris, Hunt and Cameron went th the same school, uni and attended the same Supper Club. The gene pool from which they all came from is gettong smaller and smaller. End up marrying 2nd or 3rd cousins or the like. If you think politicians are bad now wait unti[ their children come to power.

[JeMeSouviens]

Boris, Hunt and Cameron went th the same school, uni and attended the same Supper Club. The gene pool from which they all came from is gettong smaller and smaller. End up marrying 2nd or 3rd cousins or the like. If you think politicians are bad now wait unti[ their children come to power.

Actually while Boris and Dave were at Eton, Hunt was practically down and out, slumming it at Charterhouse College.

https://iscaschools.com/wordpress-cms/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/charterhousefinest_header-1200x600.jpg

Puir wee scone.

[Moulin Yarns]

Perth and Kinross Council tweet the roads around the concert hall are closed for a "public event" does this mean anyone can attend? 😉

[Moulin Yarns]

A Perth cafe was offering free milkshake this afternoon for the visit of BJ

[lapsedhibee]

Boris, Hunt and Cameron went th the same school, uni and attended the same Supper Club. The gene pool from which they all came from is gettong smaller and smaller. End up marrying 2nd or 3rd cousins or the like. If you think politicians are bad now wait unti[ their children come to power.

I don't think Hunt is related to his wife. He's not even sure what part of the world she comes from.

[Future17]

A Perth cafe was offering free milkshake this afternoon for the visit of BJ

I'll wait til next time they have a milkshake visiting...

[Moulin Yarns]

I'll wait til next time they have a milkshake visiting...


:tsk tsk::lips seal:tee hee:

[Crunchie]

Am I having a whoosh moment or is your post serious? In the space of a couple of years you went from being a card carrying SNP member to a Conservative and Unionist who wants out of the EU? That's some journey! What happened to make your views change so drastically?

It's not really a journey, all my life I wanted Scottish independence but I don't see being a member of a broken EU ( AND I BELIEVE IT WILL BE BROKEN WHEN WE LEAVE ) as being independent at all. I believe we will be far better off as a United Kingdom.

When I voted for independence coming out of the EU wasn't an issue.

Better the devil you know as they say, the EU will be a totally different animal minus the UK., and a lot poorer.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's not really a journey, all my life I wanted Scottish independence but I don't see being a member of a broken EU ( AND I BELIEVE IT WILL BE BROKEN WHEN WE LEAVE ) as being independent at all. I believe we will be far better off as a United Kingdom.

When I voted for independence coming out of the EU wasn't an issue.

Better the devil you know as they say, the EU will be a totally different animal minus the UK., and a lot poorer.

When you voted for independence we were told that we would not be able to stay in the EU, and it would be interesting to know what you think will make the 27 poorer without the UK.

[Crunchie]

When you voted for independence we were told that we would not be able to stay in the EU, and it would be interesting to know what you think will make the 27 poorer without the UK.

I think it's a widely held view they will be poorer without the UK's contribution. If I'm mistaken on that I apologise.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think it's a widely held view they will be poorer without the UK's contribution. If I'm mistaken on that I apologise.

The UK leaving the EU will obviously have a negative effect on both the UK and EU. However the UK losing 27 partners will have a much more dramatic effect on the UK than the EU losing 1.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think it's a widely held view they will be poorer without the UK's contribution. If I'm mistaken on that I apologise.

In 2016 the UK contribution was 13%, not inconsiderable, but not insurmountable. However, taking into account the money spent in the UK by the EU our net contribution is around 4%of the EU total budget.

[Hibbyradge]

I'll wait til next time they have a milkshake visiting...

:top marks

[Fife-Hibee]

I think it's a widely held view they will be poorer without the UK's contribution. If I'm mistaken on that I apologise.

Yeah... a widely held view within the English region of the UK. The same region that said Scotland would be considerably poorer if we left the UK. :rolleyes:

[JeMeSouviens]

John Harris in the Graun, pointing out that BoJo (a walking ideological desert) is getting his policy ideas from the clowns behind "Britannia Unchained", a manifesto for small state, low regulation (easy hire, easy fire) **** the poor politics.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/07/boris-johnson-government-britannia-unchained

[JeMeSouviens]

This Tory debate is so bad I’m yearning for Cameron.

[Fife-Hibee]

How can anybody in Scotland watch this and think:

"Yep.... this is far better than the struggle of being in control."

???

[JeMeSouviens]

Julie Etchingham was quite good. Maybe she could be PM?

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/scottories/status/1148965175682326530?s=21

Scottish Tories blaming Scottish govt for high level of drug deaths despite drug policy being reserved and repeated requests for it to be devolved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

I've watched the 1st 15 minutes of the documentary on BBC2 about BSE/CJD, it gets more horrifying by the minute.

If you need any further proof of what really matters to the Conservative party or proof that they are lying ****bags then I suggest watching it.

Scandalous.

[Fife-Hibee]

I've watched the 1st 15 minutes of the documentary on BBC2 about BSE/CJD, it gets more horrifying by the minute.

If you need any further proof of what really matters to the Conservative party or proof that they are lying ****bags then I suggest watching it.

Scandalous.

No mention of the tories in the documentary though eh.

[Pretty Boy]

No mention of the tories in the documentary though eh.

There was multiple mentions of the Tories thoughtout the early part including footage from the House of Commons, the infamous footage of John Gummer giving the burger to his daughter, repeated mentions of the then Governments insistence British beef was safe, footage of Tory MPs eating steak tartar, extensive mention of Thatchers privatisation of school meals and repeated criticisms of the conduct of the Ministry of Agriculture.

Do you actually even believe ha!f of what you post?

[Smartie]

I've watched the 1st 15 minutes of the documentary on BBC2 about BSE/CJD, it gets more horrifying by the minute.

If you need any further proof of what really matters to the Conservative party or proof that they are lying ****bags then I suggest watching it.

Scandalous.

I've spoken to a few people who were involved in public health policy throughout the whole episode.

The idea of "the prion" is terrifying - a small protein that couldn't be killed with conventional sterilisation methods, it is very different to bacteria, viruses, fungi etc, and it is even more terrifying to think that they didn't at that time have a clue what these things were and how they behave.

I'm still not convinced that we have really learned all that many lessons and I"m sure that an outbreak of something truly horrific is still possible. The use of a lot of single use instruments in medicine has managed to minimise the risk of cross infection but now we are getting all eco-friendly, people are starting to question single use instruments, the use of plastics etc and I'm pretty uncomfortable about where this all might go.

I'll need to see this documentary.

[Mr Grieves]

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1149257277163167744?s=19

:hilarious

[Fife-Hibee]

There was multiple mentions of the Tories thoughtout the early part including footage from the House of Commons, the infamous footage of John Gummer giving the burger to his daughter, repeated mentions of the then Governments insistence British beef was safe, footage of Tory MPs eating steak tartar, extensive mention of Thatchers privatisation of school meals and repeated criticisms of the conduct of the Ministry of Agriculture.

Do you actually even believe ha!f of what you post?

Were their faces zoomed in, with the colours washed out, with eerie music playing away in the background?

[Pretty Boy]

Were their faces zoomed in, with the colours washed out, with eerie music playing away in the background?

Given your conviction, however incorrect, that there was no mention of the Tories in the documentary I'm assuming you watched it therefore you don't need me to tell you the answer.

Unless of course you took umbrage at a documentary you didn't even see because of your pathological hatred of the BBC.

[Fife-Hibee]

Given your conviction, however incorrect, that there was no mention of the Tories in the documentary I'm assuming you watched it therefore you don't need me to tell you the answer.

Unless of course you took umbrage at a documentary you didn't even see because of your pathological hatred of the BBC.

I didn't watch it. But you're right. I already knew the answer.

[Pretty Boy]

I didn't watch it. But you're right. I already knew the answer.

So just to be clear you stated there was 'no mention of the Tories' yet you didn't even watch the documentary so had no idea if what you said is accurate? For someone who gets very hung up on the truth and encouraging people to look for the 'facts' that doesn't seem a very rational thing to do.

I can't say I'm surprised though.

[Fife-Hibee]

So just to be clear you stated there was 'no mention of the Tories' yet you didn't even watch the documentary so had no idea if what you said is accurate? For someone who gets very hung up on the truth and encouraging people to look for the 'facts' that doesn't seem a very rational thing to do.

I can't say I'm surprised though.

Must just be my pathological hatred of the BBC. Only perfectly saine people indulge in such blatant propaganda.

[Moulin Yarns]

Must just be my pathological hatred of the BBC. Only perfectly saine people indulge in such blatant propaganda.

Saine? Freudian slip? 🤔😁

[Pretty Boy]

Must just be my pathological hatred of the BBC. Only perfectly saine people indulge in such blatant propaganda.

It's amazing you have managed to get your frillies in a twist about a documentary you didn't see based on my post which was critical of the Conservative Party from start to finish because of my own disgust at them having viewed the programme in question.

It just screams someone who is just looking for an argument at every turn.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://youtu.be/q2mrQ1Z73kM

[Hibernia&Alba]

This is magic.


https://youtu.be/V3TT1VE8Jq0

[ronaldo7]

12 of the 13 Scottish Tories voted to shut down parliament to enable a no deal Brexit.

Boris now has the Scottish Tories in his back pocket, and Ruth can't do a thing about it.

[Fife-Hibee]

12 of the 13 Scottish Tories voted to shut down parliament to enable a no deal Brexit.

Boris now has the Scottish Tories in his back pocket, and Ruth can't do a thing about it.

Was Ruth the one who voted against/abstained?

We shouldn't be too surprised. They'd all vote to shut down Holyrood as well if that option was on the table.

[Moulin Yarns]

Was Ruth the one who voted against/abstained?

We shouldn't be too surprised. They'd all vote to shut down Holyrood as well if that option was on the table.

For all that Ruth has delusions of grandeur, she is still not an MP.

[ronaldo7]

Was Ruth the one who voted against/abstained?

We shouldn't be too surprised. They'd all vote to shut down Holyrood as well if that option was on the table.

Westminster. :wink:

[ronaldo7]

I see the Tories are allowing 15 yr olds to vote for the next Leader/Prime Minister. Goes against the grain when they refuse 16 yr olds the vote in other elections.

Shysters.

[Fife-Hibee]

For all that Ruth has delusions of grandeur, she is still not an MP.


Westminster. :wink:

In my defence, she's far closer to Westminster in heart and in mind than she is to Holyrood. :greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

I see the Tories are allowing 15 yr olds to vote for the next Leader/Prime Minister. Goes against the grain when they refuse 16 yr olds the vote in other elections.

Shysters.

It's tory policy though.

"If your age group doesn't support us, then you're at the wrong age to vote....... unless you're fully signed up members of the Conservative Party."

[James310]

It's tory policy though.

"If your age group doesn't support us, then you're at the wrong age to vote....... unless you're fully signed up members of the Conservative Party."

Do you believe all 16/17 year olds in Scotland should have the vote? Would their 'named person' accompany them to the polling station?

How is that going anyway, how many millions have been wasted to date? Money that could have been spent on vunerable children where the resources should be allocated to in the first place.

[Fife-Hibee]

Do you believe all 16/17 year olds in Scotland should have the vote? Would their 'named person' accompany them to the polling station?

How is that going anyway, how many millions have been wasted to date? Money that could have been spent on vunerable children where the resources should be allocated to in the first place.

Yes, I do believe all 16/17 year olds in Scotland should have the vote.

Are you saying you would rather resources were spent on a small number of vulnerable children (due to the vast majority going unidentified)? As opposed to more resources going into indentifying as many vulnerable children as possible?

[ronaldo7]

In my defence, she's far closer to Westminster in heart and in mind than she is to Holyrood. :greengrin

:agree:

[James310]

Yes, I don't believe all 16/17 year olds in Scotland should have the vote.

Are you saying you would rather resources were spent on a small number of vulnerable children (due to the vast majority going unidentified)? As opposed to more resources going into indentifying as many vulnerable children as possible?

Fair enough, I would have thought you would support the vote for 16/17 year olds as they would boost the Indy vote.

I don't believe every single child in Scotland requires a named person. As you allude to it’s already extremely difficult to protect vulnerable children. This plan is stretching limited resources even further by creating a scheme that applies to all children regardless of need.

Named Persons are also very likely to be over-cautious in referring issues to social services, which will then further create unnecessary work for social workers, again diverting their time and preventing them to help the most vulnerable and needy children.

[Fife-Hibee]

Fair enough, I would have thought you would support the vote for 16/17 year olds as they would boost the Indy vote.

I meant "do". :wink:


I don't believe every single child in Scotland requires a named person. As you say it’s already extremely difficult to protect vulnerable children. This plan is stretching limited resources even further by creating a scheme that applies to all children regardless of need.

Named Persons are also very likely to be over-cautious in referring issues to social services, which will then further create unnecessary work for social workers, again diverting their time and allowing them to help the most vulnerable and needy children.

Why take the risk of vulnerable children going through their childhood unidentified, just so children who aren't currently vulnerable don't have somebody to talk to? Any non-vulnerable child right now, could become vulnerable at any moment.

The health and safety of children come first beyond all else. If there aren't enough social workers to deal with the level of vulnerable level of children identified, then that just means we'll have to find ways of investing more in that area.

[James310]

I meant "do". :wink:



Why take the risk of vulnerable children going through their childhood unidentified, just so children who aren't currently vulnerable don't have somebody to talk to? Any non-vulnerable child right now, could become vulnerable at any moment.

The health and safety of children come first beyond all else. If there aren't enough social workers to deal with the level of vulnerable level of children identified, then that just means we'll have to find ways of investing more in that area.

So old enough to vote but young enough to still have to have a named person. Strange contradiction.

You can cut it lots of ways, but I don't believe every single child in Scotland needs one, for the reasons I have given.

I am not alone, the British Association for Adoption and Fostering Scotland have stated the Named Person provision will “get in the way of ensuring that those who really need support actually receive it”.

Police Scotland has already highlighted evidence of wellbeing assessments causing “significant” time delay in children being removed from abusive
situations.

I believe it will never happen anyway, it has been tied up in the courts for years now wasting more money.

[Mon Dieu4]

Fair enough, I would have thought you would support the vote for 16/17 year olds as they would boost the Indy vote.

I don't believe every single child in Scotland requires a named person. As you allude to it’s already extremely difficult to protect vulnerable children. This plan is stretching limited resources even further by creating a scheme that applies to all children regardless of need.

Named Persons are also very likely to be over-cautious in referring issues to social services, which will then further create unnecessary work for social workers, again diverting their time and preventing them to help the most vulnerable and needy children.

Don't think many people who think that 16/17 year olds should get to vote do so because they feel they would vote the way they want, would imagine that most of them think that if you are old enough to pay tax then you should get to have a say in who spends your tax money

I think it's pretty apparent that the majority of youngsters are pretty forward thinking due to the Internet and information now being on demand and it's scaring the old guard big time who will try to keep the status quo

[Just Alf]

Do you believe all 16/17 year olds in Scotland should have the vote? Would their 'named person' accompany them to the polling station?

How is that going anyway, how many millions have been wasted to date? Money that could have been spent on vunerable children where the resources should be allocated to in the first place.

Specifically on the Tories, do you think it's right that they'll allow a 15 year old to cast a vote in this instance but not others..... Apologies for going away from the OP I know it's not lying but at least it's still the Tories.

[James310]

Specifically on the Tories, do you think it's right that they'll allow a 15 year old to cast a vote in this instance but not others..... Apologies for going away from the OP I know it's not lying but at least it's still the Tories.

No, it's not right, they should be consistent. It should be 18 and over if that's what the general election rules are.

[Fife-Hibee]

So old enough to vote but young enough to still have to have a named person. Strange contradiction.

Are you saying that people with named guardians shouldn't be allowed to vote? What about people with carers or support workers? Should they also be excluded from voting in your view?



You can cut it lots of ways, but I don't believe every single child in Scotland needs one, for the reasons I have given.

What reasons are those?


I am not alone, the British Association for Adoption and Fostering Scotland have stated the Named Person provision will “get in the way of ensuring that those who really need support actually receive it”.

Nice bit of selective quoting there. They also stated: "BAAF Scotland generally welcomes the Bill. We recognise that many of the details of the wide-ranging proposals will be in subsequent regulations and guidance."


Police Scotland has already highlighted evidence of wellbeing assessments causing “significant” time delay in children being removed from abusive situations.

Shall I address your use of selective quoting again?


I believe it will never happen anyway, it has been tied up in the courts for years now wasting more money.

Believe whatever you like. You may be right, you may be wrong. Suppose only time will really tell.

[James310]

Are you saying that people with named guardians shouldn't be allowed to vote? What about people with carers or support workers? Should they also be excluded from voting in your view?




What reasons are those?



Nice bit of selective quoting there. They also stated: "BAAF Scotland generally welcomes the Bill. We recognise that many of the details of the wide-ranging proposals will be in subsequent regulations and guidance."



Shall I address your use of selective quoting again?



Believe whatever you like. You may be right, you may be wrong. Suppose only time will really tell.

I am sure they welcome the bill if it does not get in the way, I absolutely think it will.

It will stretch already scare resources, I don't see how it can't.

I don't think time will tell, it will never happen and quietly dropped in the coming years.

[Fife-Hibee]

I am sure they welcome the bill if it does not get in the way, I absolutely think it will.

It will stretch already scare resources, I don't see how it can't.

I don't think time will tell, it will never happen and quietly dropped in the coming years.

"I absolutely think" and "I don't think" are just your opinion.

Or taken directly from this site, which makes no attempt at balance in it's selective use of quotes. - https://no2np.org/

[Just Alf]

No, it's not right, they should be consistent. It should be 18 and over if that's what the general election rules are.

Ta, agree consistency is key.

[Mibbes Aye]

Ta, agree consistency is key.

It is an interesting one because instinctively I agree but rationally I recognise we are talking two different things.

The electoral franchise is the electoral franchise and while I agree it should be consistent, it does raise questions of what happens should the administration of the day in Westminster, Holyrood, Cardiff or Stormont (if it ever resumes) find itself wishing to pursue a particular and potentially controversial direction e.g. votes for 16 year olds, votes for prisoners etc etc AND this isn’t the view of other administrations. There are cross-border mechanisms for resolving such issues, involving ministers and civil servants but when it comes to social policy issues, I’m not sure if they can always resolve such things.

Technically, the Tory leadership election isn’t electoral franchise, it’s I guess an essentially private election for members of a political party, or rather constituency associations, grouped together under an umbrella that is the ‘Conservative Party’. Their Young Conservatives wing are regarded as full members of their constituency associations and therefore get to vote as full members. I’m guessing based on the reporting that the minimum age for YCs is 15.

It doesn’t seem necessarily the best way of deciding a new PM to say the least, but Labour isn’t dissimilar, certainly when it had the bloc union votes prior to OMOV, and perhaps still, in the advent of a mass swelling of membership due to low joining rates and the retaining of affiliate union votes. I’m not up to speed with the process for Lib Dems , Greens, SNP, Brexit Party, Plaid Cymru but I am sure they will have foibles they could be challenged upon.

Just another example of the complicated and idiosyncratic system of constitutional politics on these islands. We could have adopted a formal constitution like France or the USA but it would be so less interesting :greengrin

[GORDONSMITH7]

https://twitter.com/scottories/status/1148965175682326530?s=21

Scottish Tories blaming Scottish govt for high level of drug deaths despite drug policy being reserved and repeated requests for it to be devolved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As did some Tory dud, failed leadership contender on the Daily Politics show, when an SNP spokesperson was explaining what she thought was behind the appallingly figures. It was cringworthy stuff from him. Total arse.

BIG G

[GORDONSMITH7]

I see the Tories are allowing 15 yr olds to vote for the next Leader/Prime Minister. Goes against the grain when they refuse 16 yr olds the vote in other elections.

Shysters.

It has always seemed to me that the age of 16, when you can marry and start a family or join the Armed Forces to be sent goodness knows where in the world,is enough to persuade me that 16 year old Universal Suffrage in the UK is long overdue. You are right @ronaldo7 these hypocritical horrors have argued for years that at 16 you are not mature enough to know what you are doing.

BIG G

[Jack]

I think this thread is a better place to discuss this as the born liar is about to become leader of the self serving shysters.

Career liar Boris stitched up by a kipper.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/07/truth-about-boris-johnson-s-kipper

[Fife-Hibee]

How cringeworthy can this lot get?
https://i.ibb.co/gvR1DsY/cringe.png

Be thankful? Thankful for what? Getting some more of our own tax revenue back? :confused:

[JeMeSouviens]

Excellent write up from the insightful Fintan O'Toole on Johnson:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2019/08/15/boris-johnson-ham-of-fate/

[Hibrandenburg]

Excellent write up from the insightful Fintan O'Toole on Johnson:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2019/08/15/boris-johnson-ham-of-fate/

I enjoyed that, thanks.

[lapsedhibee]

I enjoyed that, thanks.

:agree: F O'T never disappoints.

[Future17]

Excellent write up from the insightful Fintan O'Toole on Johnson:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2019/08/15/boris-johnson-ham-of-fate/

That's a great read.

[Jack Hackett]

Excellent write up from the insightful Fintan O'Toole on Johnson:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2019/08/15/boris-johnson-ham-of-fate/

Right on the money.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://youtu.be/pXxyDZRUTDQ

[Future17]

From the BBC's article on Johnson meeting Davidson:

"Talk of the Scottish Conservatives forming a breakaway party is premature. Ms Davidson says she will not allow it to happen on her watch. And a Scottish separation is not exactly a good look for a party that is supposed to be wholeheartedly supporting the Union between Scotland and the rest of the UK.

It may not solve any issues for the Tories in Scotland anyway. As one former Tory strategist put it to me - when they rebranded Marathon bars as Snickers they still had peanuts inside and if you have a nut allergy they are still a problem".

[Fife-Hibee]

https://i.ibb.co/ZzdjFHc/liar.png



Brexit latest: Number of UK firms in critical financial distress soars 17%
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-uk-business-financial-distress-economy-begbies-traynor-a8891451.html

[ronaldo7]

That's Boris done the box ticking exercise of visiting the "regions". Back to the metropolis to continue telling the masses to be positive.

Monday, it was the SNP's fault.
Tuesday it was Welsh labour.
Wednesday, after dining with his DUP mates, you could take your pick from Sinn Fein, or the Irish government.

Next up will be the EU intransigence.

[lapsedhibee]

That's Boris done the box ticking exercise of visiting the "regions". Back to the metropolis to continue telling the masses to be positive.

Monday, it was the SNP's fault.
Tuesday it was Welsh labour.
Wednesday, after dining with his DUP mates, you could take your pick from Sinn Fein, or the Irish government.

Next up will be the EU intransigence.

His spokesdummies have been pumping that one out for about a week now. Laughably transparent strategy, but due in no small part to his Telegraph lies in previous decades it will probably work.

[southsider]

Had one clown on today speaking about 'our precious United Kingdom which has existed for 400 years. Wrong. The United Kingdom was formed in 1922 when 26 counties of the 32 in Ireland broke away to form Eire.
Anyway, Right wing Tories could well see the break up of the UK due to their desire for Brexix. Cant come soon enough.

[mjhibby]

As did some Tory dud, failed leadership contender on the Daily Politics show, when an SNP spokesperson was explaining what she thought was behind the appallingly figures. It was cringworthy stuff from him. Total arse.

BIG G

Indeed. The Tory papers constantly criticise the SNP govt yet never criticise the Tories who utimately control the purse strings through govt grants. Unfortunately some gullible folk fall for this. The beaten generation,reared on a diet of predijuce and misinformation. Matt Johnsons words 35 years ago and totally relevant now. They have always been lying tax dodging loathsome people but their level of incompetence is actually overtaking their rabid right wing tendencies as just as damaging to ordinary folk.

[Fife-Hibee]

Why we can't trust the media in this county and why it frustrates me to no end that people still continue to do so.

https://i.ibb.co/GQwBPH5/eu-press-lies.png

https://i.ibb.co/GQwBPH5/eu-press-lies.png (Direct Link for larger image)

[southsider]

My wife fell for the curved banana's one until she remembered the date was April 1st.

[Moulin Yarns]

Just so that you know, the Scottish Tories are liars


https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1157269194242699264?s=19

[Jack Hackett]

Indeed. The Tory papers constantly criticise the SNP govt yet never criticise the Tories who utimately control the purse strings through govt grants. Unfortunately some gullible folk fall for this. The beaten generation,reared on a diet of predijuce and misinformation. Matt Johnsons words 35 years ago and totally relevant now. They have always been lying tax dodging loathsome people but their level of incompetence is actually overtaking their rabid right wing tendencies as just as damaging to ordinary folk.

You just gave me another grey hair. 35 years? F*** me!

[Fife-Hibee]

Ruth Davidson now the most unpopular "senior" tory in the whole of Britain - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-disown-ruth-davidson-jpn3fj9lj

Surely her position as leader of the branch in Scotland becomes untenable?

All of her chat on reforming the tories into a party of moderates that would appeal more to the Scottish electorate has been blown out of the water with the appointment of Boris Johnson.

It's hard to see how she can continue to speak up for the tories in Scotland, or even the union for that matter.

[Colr]

Ruth Davidson now the most unpopular "senior" tory in the whole of Britain - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-disown-ruth-davidson-jpn3fj9lj

Surely her position as leader of the branch in Scotland becomes untenable?

All of her chat on reforming the tories into a party of moderates that would appeal more to the Scottish electorate has been blown out of the water with the appointment of Boris Johnson.

It's hard to see how she can continue to speak up for the tories in Scotland, or even the union for that matter.

After years of trying to make the Scottish Tories electable by giving them a distinct Scottish identity and voice, they appear to be destroying their own work.

English Tories just don't get how important this is but neither do Labour any more.

[Fife-Hibee]

After years of trying to make the Scottish Tories electable by giving them a distinct Scottish identity and voice, they appear to be destroying their own work.

English Tories just don't get how important this is but neither do Labour any more.

:agree:

As much as i'm a supporter of Scottish Independence, it's a real shame to see things play out this way.

[Colr]

:agree:

As much as i'm a supporter of Scottish Independence, it's a real shame to see things play out this way.

It's the same in Wales.

Again, English politicians don't get it and they don't understand independence either. They think its all about them and take it personally!! (Not that I'm much for independence myself).

[Mr Grieves]

Ruth Davidson now the most unpopular "senior" tory in the whole of Britain - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-disown-ruth-davidson-jpn3fj9lj

Surely her position as leader of the branch in Scotland becomes untenable?

All of her chat on reforming the tories into a party of moderates that would appeal more to the Scottish electorate has been blown out of the water with the appointment of Boris Johnson.

It's hard to see how she can continue to speak up for the tories in Scotland, or even the union for that matter.

Mental. She was was one of the most popular tories only a few months ago. It shows how quickly her party have swung right behind a hard brexit and how completely irrelevant she is.

[SHODAN]

Ironic, but the Scottish Tories need their own independence. :tee hee:

[Fife-Hibee]

Tories going very hard on the view that they'll oppose #indyref2 no matter what.

This must go against basic democratic rights? How long can they really maintain such a position?

[lapsedhibee]

Tories going very hard on the view that they'll oppose #indyref2 no matter what.

This must go against basic democratic rights? How long can they really maintain such a position?

Has the genius Cummings told them to say it would be undemocratic yet?

[JeMeSouviens]

Tories going very hard on the view that they'll oppose #indyref2 no matter what.

This must go against basic democratic rights? How long can they really maintain such a position?

Forever.

It's much harder for Labour who really have no route back unless they can win back some of the Indy supporters they've lost. Even in current polling putting them at just 18%, 40% of that 18% wants a referendum and would vote Yes.

But for the Tories, they are solidly, intransigently ~100% NO, so they might as well dig in around it.

[Fife-Hibee]

Forever.

It's much harder for Labour who really have no route back unless they can win back some of the Indy supporters they've lost. Even in current polling putting them at just 18%, 40% of that 18% wants a referendum and would vote Yes.

But for the Tories, they are solidly, intransigently ~100% NO, so they might as well dig in around it.

They're playing a very dangerous game. Using English votes to dictate over a country that rejects them. No wonder they're planning to roll out soldiers onto the streets.

[weecounty hibby]

Tories going very hard on the view that they'll oppose #indyref2 no matter what.

This must go against basic democratic rights? How long can they really maintain such a position?
This will be their stance forever and a day. It will actually get stronger and more about now that UK Labour has said they won't stand in the way of Indyref2. They will try to hoover up the last of the Labour Unionists who are Unionists first and Labour second

[Fife-Hibee]

David Mundell says he will not try to block a no-deal Brexit...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-mundell-says-he-will-not-try-to-block-a-no-deal-brexit-b2rt3wl6j?fbclid=IwAR2g6ichdIIvC6jth9fBkW2uBCzRInd CTgtnOA5ESwDhEzeovdU-r8B-PZY

[grunt]

David Mundell says he will not try to block a no-deal Brexit...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-mundell-says-he-will-not-try-to-block-a-no-deal-brexit-b2rt3wl6j?fbclid=IwAR2g6ichdIIvC6jth9fBkW2uBCzRInd CTgtnOA5ESwDhEzeovdU-r8B-PZY


"The Conservative MP, who was sacked (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-tensions-mount-with-ruth-davidson-after-plea-to-spare-david-mundell-ignored-7jg75t7v0) from his position by Boris Johnson, also said that Scotland should not be denied a second independence referendum if a pro-independence majority is returned at the 2021 election on a manifesto of holding a new vote."

We already have that pro-independence majority at Holyrood. Can't he count?

[JeMeSouviens]

David Mundell says he will not try to block a no-deal Brexit...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-mundell-says-he-will-not-try-to-block-a-no-deal-brexit-b2rt3wl6j?fbclid=IwAR2g6ichdIIvC6jth9fBkW2uBCzRInd CTgtnOA5ESwDhEzeovdU-r8B-PZY

In other news, my dog has declared he won't try to block the dualling of the A9.

[StevieC]

In other news, my dog has declared he won't try to block the dualling of the A9.

He says that now, but once he starts to see trees getting pulled down .. ?

[Moulin Yarns]

He says that now, but once he starts to see trees getting pulled down .. ?

I was thinking of all the bones he could find around the Killiecrankie section :greengrin

[SHODAN]

David Mundell says he will not try to block a no-deal Brexit...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/david-mundell-says-he-will-not-try-to-block-a-no-deal-brexit-b2rt3wl6j?fbclid=IwAR2g6ichdIIvC6jth9fBkW2uBCzRInd CTgtnOA5ESwDhEzeovdU-r8B-PZY

The Scottish Tories would vote to dissolve Holyrood and impose direct rule if Boris told them to. Anything to save the union.

[Hibrandenburg]

The Scottish Tories would vote to dissolve Holyrood and impose direct rule if Boris told them to. Anything to save the union.

Anything except Brexit, they'd much rather have Brexit than the union.

[Fife-Hibee]

The tories are still bleating on about the "SNP" car parking charges. Never mind that the power is devolved to local councils and the only council so far choosing to impliment the power are the tory/libdem coalition in Perth and Kinross. :rolleyes:

I really hope people there are clued up enough to see right through this, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Moulin Yarns]

The tories are still bleating on about the "SNP" car parking charges. Never mind that the power is devolved to local councils and the only council so far choosing to impliment the power are the tory/libdem coalition in Perth and Kinross. :rolleyes:

I really hope people there are clued up enough to see right through this, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Where did you hear that pkc are introducing the workplace parking charges? I live in pkc and have not heard anything.

[Fife-Hibee]

Where did you hear that pkc are introducing the workplace parking charges? I live in pkc and have not heard anything.

Just last year conservative councilors in Perth and Kinross voted for the local authority to seek consent to introduce a workplace parking levy.

They're pretending to reject the very powers they were seeking consent to use last year. Why would they have been seeking these powers if they had no intentions of using them?

[Moulin Yarns]

Just last year conservative councilors in Perth and Kinross voted for the local authority to seek consent to introduce a workplace parking levy.

They're pretending to reject the very powers they were seeking consent to use last year. Why would they have been seeking these powers if they had no intentions of using them?

Can't you provide a link. Reason I ask is that this is a quote from the courier dated 15 February2019


But the Conservative group leader confirmed he will not introduce the controversial tourist tax or workplace parking levy, despite the Scottish Government offering local authorities the power to do so.
“Despite the poor settlement from the Scottish Government, we’ve decided not to progress with a visitor tax nor a parking levy,” he said.

[Moulin Yarns]

Just last year conservative councilors in Perth and Kinross voted for the local authority to seek consent to introduce a workplace parking levy.

They're pretending to reject the very powers they were seeking consent to use last year. Why would they have been seeking these powers if they had no intentions of using them?

Come on Fife, you are struggling to prove this because the Scottish Government did not introduce the possibility of a workplace parking levy until this year as part of the Scottish Greens budget proposals, so how could a Council have voted on it beforehand?

[ronaldo7]

Come on Fife, you are struggling to prove this because the Scottish Government did not introduce the possibility of a workplace parking levy until this year as part of the Scottish Greens budget proposals, so how could a Council have voted on it beforehand?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/nottingham/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8583000/8583339.stm&ved=2ahUKEwjUiZyd7o7kAhXEuHEKHb72DUsQFjACegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw2LzWPdvtH_01sbHitaX3QT

😉

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/nottingham/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8583000/8583339.stm&ved=2ahUKEwjUiZyd7o7kAhXEuHEKHb72DUsQFjACegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw2LzWPdvtH_01sbHitaX3QT

��

Very good Ron, but all Councils in England and Wales already have the ability to introduce the Workplace parking levy, Only Nottingham have done so. NO SCOTTISH Local Authority has done so, yet. Certainly not Perth and Kinross Council.

PS, I didn't even need to open the link to know what it was. :wink:

[Fife-Hibee]

Come on Fife, you are struggling to prove this because the Scottish Government did not introduce the possibility of a workplace parking levy until this year as part of the Scottish Greens budget proposals, so how could a Council have voted on it beforehand?

I've been trying to find information about it via google search. But considering the sheer number of fake SNP bad stories surrounding the policy over the past couple of years, it's like trying to find a needle in a haystake. So bear with me. :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

I've been trying to find information about it via google search. But considering the sheer number of fake SNP bad stories surrounding the policy over the past couple of years, it's like trying to find a needle in a haystake. So bear with me. :wink:

I've even checked the PKC Website and it doesn't exist. It was never minuted. Cut your losses and admit it was a mistake.

February 2019

Unite has written to all 32 councils to warn them against using the new power, as the workplace parking tax row dominated the run-up to Thursday’s final Budget vote.
Every leader of Conservative groups in Scotland’s local authorities came out on Wednesday pledging not to introduce the charges, which could total more than £400 per workplace space.

[ronaldo7]

Very good Ron, but all Councils in England and Wales already have the ability to introduce the Workplace parking levy, Only Nottingham have done so. NO SCOTTISH Local Authority has done so, yet. Certainly not Perth and Kinross Council.

PS, I didn't even need to open the link to know what it was. :wink:

Just trying to give him a ladder to climb down.

It was Perth after all. 😂

[mjhibby]

The tories are still bleating on about the "SNP" car parking charges. Never mind that the power is devolved to local councils and the only council so far choosing to impliment the power are the tory/libdem coalition in Perth and Kinross. :rolleyes:

I really hope people there are clued up enough to see right through this, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I can't stop laughing at how the Scottish daily mail blames everything on the SNP when of course they control how much Scotland and Scottish councils get through the grant. Studies unsurprisingly show they give more to Tory councils. Not once died the sdmail blame the govt. Just utterly ridiculous. As for being ****bags gove six months ago said no deal would harm the farming industry so much they would struggle to recover. Now of course as Boris the backstabber has given him a position it's now not as bad as he thought. If I was to go over the lies, misinformation,propoganda etc I'd probably be six feet under. The latest doomsday scenario written by bumblers own staff is apparently fake news. So even his own party is calling it's own internal emails fake news. It's so unreal just how similar Johnson tactics are based on Steve bannons way of misinformation. Btw Bannon has already warned trump and Johnson that populism has a short shelf life and you do eventually actually have to achieve at least some of the things you promise. The quicker brexit is over with the public can see through these charlatans. Mays time in office will seem like an oasis of calm compared to cock up Boris. If only labour could get a decent leader we could keep these ****bags out of office for decades.

[cabbageandribs1875]

she's really quite a nasty creature this one....some will recognise her as the little innocent one from a question time episode a few months back, ******** tory mouthpiece and a nasty one at that, then again the tory party is a vile institution so no surprise, tories are a horrible breed :agree:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17852127.tory-member-suspended-jibe-first-ministers-miscarriage/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR04s8g6yKN2Xt6BDKM-OQGC5DkgoQx3dfcIy90Z5QuhMOX_czcm82vMPqs



THE Tories (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/tories/) have been forced to suspend a senior party member after she made a sick jibe about Nicola Sturgeon (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/nicola-sturgeon/)'s miscarriage.
In a horrific exchange on Twitter, Jane Lax, the party's treasurer in Moray, traded jokes about the SNP (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/snp/) leader’s baby loss with anonymous internet trolls.
Ironically, it kicked off on Tuesday evening when notorious Unionist account Agent P shared an interview in which Sturgeon (https://www.thenational.scot/search/?search=Sturgeon&topic_id=9020) detailed the abuse she receives online.
“The GERS figures must be imminent,” Agent P declared.
Replying, another anonymous account, Femme Sag ���� #2135 on the list #NOTMYFM, tweeted: “Has she mentions [sic] her fictional miscarriage yet?”
Lax then replied: “Is that when she dropped a book?”


look forward to the BBC and MSM reporting this one

[lord bunberry]

she's really quite a nasty creature this one....some will recognise her as the little innocent one from a question time episode a few months back, ******** tory mouthpiece and a nasty one at that, then again the tory party is a vile institution so no surprise, tories are a horrible breed :agree:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17852127.tory-member-suspended-jibe-first-ministers-miscarriage/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR04s8g6yKN2Xt6BDKM-OQGC5DkgoQx3dfcIy90Z5QuhMOX_czcm82vMPqs



THE Tories (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/tories/) have been forced to suspend a senior party member after she made a sick jibe about Nicola Sturgeon (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/nicola-sturgeon/)'s miscarriage.
In a horrific exchange on Twitter, Jane Lax, the party's treasurer in Moray, traded jokes about the SNP (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/snp/) leader’s baby loss with anonymous internet trolls.
Ironically, it kicked off on Tuesday evening when notorious Unionist account Agent P shared an interview in which Sturgeon (https://www.thenational.scot/search/?search=Sturgeon&topic_id=9020) detailed the abuse she receives online.
“The GERS figures must be imminent,” Agent P declared.
Replying, another anonymous account, Femme Sag ���� #2135 on the list #NOTMYFM, tweeted: “Has she mentions [sic] her fictional miscarriage yet?”
Lax then replied: “Is that when she dropped a book?”


look forward to the BBC and MSM reporting this one


Absolutely disgusting, you’ll be waiting a long time before you see the bbc run this story on their news program.

[Fife-Hibee]

Absolutely disgusting, you’ll be waiting a long time before you see the bbc run this story on their news program.

Far more likely that'll they'll bring her on to some political "news" programme to inform us all how she's been bullied by the wicked cybernats and the totalitarian regime. :tee hee:

[lord bunberry]

Far more likely that'll they'll bring her on to some political "news" programme to inform us all how she's been bullied by the wicked cybernats and the totalitarian regime. :tee hee:
You’re probably right, I’ve seen quite a few of her tweets and she’s an absolute lunatic, I’m sure that’s what attracted the people who run question time to have her on as an ordinary member of the public and to make sure she was chosen to ask a question.

[Fife-Hibee]

You’re probably right, I’ve seen quite a few of her tweets and she’s an absolute lunatic, I’m sure that’s what attracted the people who run question time to have her on as an ordinary member of the public and to make sure she was chosen to ask a question.

I asked her a while back how somebody who has worked for an animal protection agengy could back a political party that likes to slaughter foxes in one of the most inhumane ways possible.

Her response? "It's a price worth paying".

An absolute lunatic as you say.

[lord bunberry]

I asked her a while back how somebody who has worked for an animal protection agengy could back a political party that likes to slaughter foxes in one of the most inhumane ways possible.

Her response? "It's a price worth paying".

An absolute lunatic as you say.
Her Twitter account is full of stuff like that. You did well to get a response from her. She’s the lunatic fringe that’s also part of the establishment.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Absolutely disgusting, you’ll be waiting a long time before you see the bbc run this story on their news program.



well, you're right, off to my napper and after a quick squint at the BBC news page, both UK and Scotland...not a thing :agree:

[Hiber-nation]

well, you're right, off to my napper and after a quick squint at the BBC news page, both UK and Scotland...not a thing :agree:

Front page of the Record today.

[Hiber-nation]

well, you're right, off to my napper and after a quick squint at the BBC news page, both UK and Scotland...not a thing :agree:

Now on the Beeb :aok:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49433637

[cabbageandribs1875]

Front page of the Record today.


Now on the Beeb :aok:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49433637


ta..:greengrin



i still won't be happy until this news is also published in the...

scottish daily express
scottish daily mail
press and journal


and main page on the BBC UK news :agree:

[mjhibby]

The comparisons between the republican and the Tory party is frightening. Both now have leaders who are clueless and lie repeatedly. They have nothing to offer policy wise but appeal to people's nationalistic views. For example Johnson saying ditch the backstop but offering no alternative plan. It's a huge high risk strategy and the Tories are standing by and letting Johnson and his extreme right wing cohorts lead the party wherever it goes.
The one spanner in the works is that the country is split down remain and leave lines. Johnson is at least savy enough to know that hence why he won't call an election. Much as I don't want parliament to overrule a vote in this instance just get Johnson out and get an election. If he then doesn't get a majority as I suspect will happen then we can at least get a coalition which while not ideal is better than loony Johnson in power. Down the line I'd hope we would become independent for the purely selfish reason of never being governed by the nasty party again.

[Moulin Yarns]

This is worth a listen, but jings, I am so depressed.

https://pca.st/hC8u8u

[Kato]

Boris lying is his default position. If Brexit is such a great idea why the daily lies?


Boris Johnson says: "Melton Mowbray pork pies, which are sold in Thailand and in Iceland, are currently unable to enter the US"

Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association says: "We don't actually export to Thailand or Iceland"

[grunt]

If Brexit is such a great idea why the daily lies?https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC2vUOtXUAEAPqM?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Callum_62]

Boris lying is his default position. If Brexit is such a great idea why the daily lies?


Boris Johnson says: "Melton Mowbray pork pies, which are sold in Thailand and in Iceland, are currently unable to enter the US"

Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association says: "We don't actually export to Thailand or Iceland" Not a lie, simply mistaken.

Just like the kippers.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Kato]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC2vUOtXUAEAPqM?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Given that there are so many lies surrounding this from day one right up until now I can only think that those who still intend voting for them fall into certain categories.

--- simply bad *******s: want to see everyone suffer
--- vested interests: will be making money from people's misery
--- utterly stupid cretins: break into a fervid sweat when someone waves a union flag

[grunt]

Given that there are so many lies surrounding this from day one right up until now I can only think that those who still intend voting for them fall into certain categories.Did you see the analysis done recently which found that in Liverpool, where the local population have boycotted the Sun because of their reporting of Hillsborough, the analysis indicated that not being exposed to the Sun's lies had resulted in an increased Remain vote?

It's in the FT, but a subscription only article,
"Sun boycott reduced Euroscepticism on Merseyside, study shows"

[Jack Hackett]

Given that there are so many lies surrounding this from day one right up until now I can only think that those who still intend voting for them fall into certain categories.

--- simply bad *******s: want to see everyone suffer
--- vested interests: will be making money from people's misery
--- utterly stupid cretins: break into a fervid sweat when someone waves a union flag

I'm going with a majority for 'utterly stupid cretins'

Taken from Quora

22441

[Kato]

I'm going with a majority for 'utterly stupid cretins'

Taken from Quora

22441

By far and away the biggest group. Bad *******s can only be covered by the percentage of the population showing pyscho-- tendencies, vested interests are those capable of siphoning "tax exempt" money through the City and that leaves the millions of schmucks shuffling through their lie ridden Facebook timelines.

[lapsedhibee]

“We asked the people to vote on whether they wanted to stay in or leave the EU; they voted to leave by a big majority.”

No they didn't. They voted by 51 point something to 48 point something to leave.

Stop. Telling. Lies.

[Moulin Yarns]

On twitter


This is the precise wording Downing St gave me in response to the Observer story this weekend on suspending parliament re #brexit: ”the claim that the govt is considering proroguing parliament in Sept in order to stop MPs debating Brexit is entirely false.’' #prorogation

[JeMeSouviens]

On twitter


This is the precise wording Downing St gave me in response to the Observer story this weekend on suspending parliament re #brexit: ”the claim that the govt is considering proroguing parliament in Sept in order to stop MPs debating Brexit is entirely false.’' #prorogation

But it's not "in order to stop Brexit", it's all perfectly normal to pursue his domestic agenda.

Apparently Johnson even tried to spin this line on the cabinet this morning. To be fair, if I was looking for a group of people stupid enough to believe him or unprincipled enough to pretend to, that'd be a great place to start.

[JeMeSouviens]

The Sun are reporting that Ruth Davidson has or is about to quit.

[Moulin Yarns]

The Sun are reporting that Ruth Davidson has or is about to quit.

It's in the Sun. Dinnae believe it.

[ronaldo7]

STV now reporting it.

Ruth the mooth is oot.

[JeMeSouviens]

BBC says she's "considering her position". Statement expected tomorrow.

[ronaldo7]

She cannae even quit properly.

Will she stay or will she go.

Flip flopping to the end.

[Moulin Yarns]

BBC says she's "considering her position". Statement expected tomorrow.

I take it back. I just heard that too.

An opening for James 🤔😉