Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[JeMeSouviens]

Your right, it has been a major failing on their part as they have had reasonable time to implement their own welfare system but were not ready.

Oh right, I didn't realise you were an internationally renowned expert on government administration. :rolleyes:

[johnbc70]

It's simple really, the system is so ****ed, it'll take a while to get it right.

Carers payments made. Check

Best start grants to be paid in December(6 months earlier than planned). Check

Changes to your failed universal credit system in place. Check.

We are only getting 15% of welfare powers, and we'll do it correctly from the start, rather than follow your failed system.

If only the Tories had listened to us when we said the universal credit roll out was underfunded and failing.

They didn't care, didn't listen, and decided to roll it out and cut it further.

This is your parties policies in action, and all you want to do is shout SNP baaaad.

But the SNP could have implemented everything in 24 months if there had been a Yes vote in 2014. Wonder how that would have turned out.

[johnbc70]

Oh right, I didn't realise you were an internationally renowned expert on government administration. :rolleyes:

No, I stick to estimating crowds for my internationally renowned expertise.

[marinello59]

They don't do things in a hurry - like taking over Prestwick Airport - they take their time and get it right, like payments to farmers. :rolleyes:

They've been working on this one since 2011. It might have been a lie though.


21320

[Moulin Yarns]

No, why did the SNP not implement their own welfare payment system in 2017 when they could have?

You know you can criticise the SNP, I don't think Nicola reads Hibs.net.

I wouldn't be too sure about the last bit. Her husband supports Hibs so may well pass on any criticism he reads on here. :wink:

[ronaldo7]

But the SNP could have implemented everything in 24 months if there had been a Yes vote in 2014. Wonder how that would have turned out.

Standard deflection from you.

Universal credit is underfunded, slow in paying out, and people are dying waiting.

You seem happy with that though eh.

[johnbc70]

They've been working on this one since 2011. It might have been a lie though.


21320

Still working on those classroom sizes as well, been quite a few years now though....

[ronaldo7]

They've been working on this one since 2011. It might have been a lie though.


21320

We were voted down on this in parliament. It's democracy old chum. But you knew that anyway didn't you.

[johnbc70]

Standard deflection from you.

Universal credit is underfunded, slow inn paying out, and people are dying waiting.

You seem happy with that though eh.

Ironic you accusing me of deflection, having read your many posts maybe I picked up something from the master.

[johnbc70]

We were voted down on this in parliament. It's democracy old chum. But you knew that anyway didn't you.

Were you voted down on classroom sizes as well? Don't think so.

[marinello59]

We were voted down on this in parliament. It's democracy old chum. But you knew that anyway didn't you.

:faf::faf::faf::faf:

[ronaldo7]

Ironic you accusing me of deflection, having read your many posts maybe I picked up something from the master.

😂 I though I was on a Tory thread as well.

[marinello59]

We can't pay the farmers, due to the money having gone to English farmers instead. ��

Another Tory hijack.

I suppose that's a better excuse than the 'our expensive IT system has been a total cock up' one used in previous years.Although that wasn't an excuse. The Scottish Government had cocked up.

[ronaldo7]

I suppose that's a better excuse than the 'our expensive IT system has been a total cock up' one used in previous years.

And you on another thread complaining about it being hijacked.

Oh the irony.

😉

It's like Tory John's got you on speed dial.

[marinello59]

And you on another thread complaining about it being hijacked.

Oh the irony.

😉

Ah, I get it, let's pretend that didn't happen. Shhhhhhh. :wink:
It's a thread about politicians telling lies and breaking promises isn't it? Tory, SNP.....all the same to me. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Ah, I get it, let's pretend that didn't happen. Shhhhhhh. :wink:
It's a thread about politicians telling lies and breaking promises isn't it? Tory, SNP.....all the same to me. :greengrin

Actually, if you go back to the original post, it's a thread that shows that while all politicians tell some lies, Tories tell almost nothing but lies!

[ronaldo7]

Actually, if you go back to the original post, it's a thread that shows that while all politicians tell some lies, Tories tell almost nothing but lies!

😊

Tories are lying *******s, now back to them lying to the disabled, and underfunding universal credit.

[marinello59]

Actually, if you go back to the original post, it's a thread that shows that while all politicians tell some lies, Tories tell almost nothing but lies!

Fair point. :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

They've been working on this one since 2011. It might have been a lie though.


21320


That's a bit harsh, surely they've just been too busy 'Locking the Tories out of No.10'. That's going extremely well.

[ronaldo7]

That's a bit harsh, surely they've just been too busy 'Locking the Tories out of No.10'. That's going extremely well.

Of all the Snp bashing threads in all the world, and you pick this one. 😂

I thought you'd hijacked the Jerusalem thread with your mention of unionists, and got away with it too.

Yes, it was £160 million stolen from Scottish farmers.

[Fife-Hibee]

Such a radical transformation from the current DWP system will take several years to fully implement in Scotland. The hand over isn't instantaneous, it occurs in manageable stages.

Anybody who thinks that it's just a case of "handing it over", doesn't understand the deep complexity of the economic structure.

[johnbc70]

Such a radical transformation from the current DWP system will take several years to fully implement in Scotland. The hand over isn't instantaneous, it occurs in manageable stages.

Anybody who thinks that it's just a case of "handing it over", doesn't understand the deep complexity of the economic structure.

But as pointed out the SNP said they could deliver independence in a 2 year time scale. 24th March 2016 was the day I think where we would be free of the English...oh I mean Westminster.

So complete independence was achievable in 2 years? Do you think that was achievable or did they underestimate the deep complexity of it all with that prediction?

Can't have it both ways, either it's all deeply complex, like you say, or it's not that complex and 2 years seemed about right.

[Fife-Hibee]

But as pointed out the SNP said they could deliver independence in a 2 year time scale. 24th March 2016 was the day I think where we would be free of the English...oh I mean Westminster.

So complete independence was achievable in 2 years? Do you think that was achievable or did they underestimate the deep complexity of it all with that prediction?

You do realize that there have been both political and economic matters than have slowed the whole process down? Devolution isn't exactly at the top of the UK Governments agenda at the moment, kicking the process into the long grass.

[johnbc70]

You do realize that there have been both political and economic matters than have slowed the whole process down? Devolution isn't exactly at the top of the UK Governments agenda at the moment, kicking the process into the long grass.

It was the SNP who asked for the delay as they were not ready. I am sure UK government would have happily handed this power across if the SNP were ready.

You never really said if you thought the 2 year timetable was realistic for delivering independence? If you believe that 2 years is not enough for a new welfare system how would 2 years have delivered that and everything else?

[Fife-Hibee]

It was the SNP who asked for the delay as they were not ready. I am sure UK government would have happily handed this power across if the SNP were ready.

You never really said if you thought the 2 year timetable was realistic for delivering independence? If you believe that 2 years is not enough for a new welfare system how would 2 years have delivered that and everything else?

The UK Government wanted to hand their broken system over to the Scottish Government early. The Scottish Government quite rightfully called for the process to be delayed, as they knew brexit would slow down the reforms required to take the system on in a way that would be economically functional. It was the sensible route to take. So i'm not sure what you're getting at in this regard.

2 years may well have been enough time if it wasn't for the collosal mess that the UK Government created to appease a few rebel backbenchers.

However, this discussion with you is pointless as your stance is clearly "back the UK Government over Scotland no matter what". :aok:

[johnbc70]

The UK Government wanted to hand their broken system over to the Scottish Government early. The Scottish Government quite rightfully called for the process to be delayed, as they knew brexit would slow down the reforms required to take the system on in a way that would be economically functional. It was the sensible route to take. So i'm not sure what you're getting at in this regard.

2 years may well have been enough time if it wasn't for the collosal mess that the UK Government created to appease a few rebel backbenchers.

However, this discussion with you is pointless as your stance is clearly "back the UK Government over Scotland no matter what". :aok:

Having seen your post about Russia then yes let's just leave it.

[Fife-Hibee]

Having seen your post about Russia then yes let's just leave it.

If you have evidence of Russias involvement, rather than just linking to articles that claim their involvement with zero evidence provided, then please feel free to do so.

[johnbc70]

If you have evidence of Russias involvement, rather than just linking to articles that claim their involvement with zero evidence provided, then please feel free to do so.

I am rarely lost for words, but this time....

I would not even know where to begin, so I won't. All the best.

[Fife-Hibee]

I am rarely lost for words, but this time....

I would not even know where to begin, so I won't. All the best.

No?

Ok then, no worries.

[Just Alf]

At lunchtime I saw the post on this thread doing a wee bit whataboutery....

I thought to my self, classic deflection tactic... someone raises an issue about the Tory government on the "Tory thread" and someone immediately brings up another parties performance (+80% of the post is about the non Tory party).... thought then that the thread would be nicely hijacked and would no longer be about the Tories.... #

back from work and you've all proved me correct :wink:

[johnbc70]

At lunchtime I saw the post on this thread doing a wee bit whataboutery....

I thought to my self, classic deflection tactic... someone raises an issue about the Tory government on the "Tory thread" and someone immediately brings up another parties performance (+80% of the post is about the non Tory party).... thought then that the thread would be nicely hijacked and would no longer be about the Tories.... #

back from work and you've all proved me correct :wink:

So you expect every post to be just about Tory lies?

Does that mean the SNP nonsense thread can only be exclusively about SNP nonsense? Is this board not about debate and calling out hypocrisy and inconsistencies? That's on both sides as well.

This place would be pretty boring if all we had was lists. Tory lie #1, #2 and SNP nonsense #1, #2 etc.

Unless you don't mean that?

[Just Alf]

So you expect every post to be just about Tory lies?

Does that mean the SNP nonsense thread can only be exclusively about SNP nonsense? Is this board not about debate and calling out hypocrisy and inconsistencies? That's on both sides as well.

This place would be pretty boring if all we had was lists. Tory lie #1, #2 and SNP nonsense #1, #2 etc.

Unless you don't mean that?If it was balanced (after a fashion) it would be seen as a proper response.

But looking back over recent months posts on the differing threads it's starting look a bit like.

Snp nonsense thread 90 odd % Snp fails getting talked about (as it should be)

The Labour thread, Snp & tories get brought up but die away in the discussion back to Labour

Tory thread, a tory fail gets highlighted and within 2 posts it's now an Snp thread.

The Snp could have done better, they did announce at the time it was a massive job and needed done properly, both the UK and Scottish governments agreed that was the correct thing to do. If its wrong to delay it then they're both wrong, if its right then they're both right.

PS. I don't mean you personally, although this particular time yer in the frame for the diversion tactic! :D

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[johnbc70]

If it was balanced (after a fashion) it would be seen as a proper response.

But looking back over recent months posts on the differing threads it's starting look a bit like.

Snp nonsense thread 90 odd % Snp fails getting talked about (as it should be)

The Labour thread, Snp & tories get brought up but die away in the discussion back to Labour

Tory thread, a tory fail gets highlighted and within 2 posts it's now an Snp thread.

The Snp could have done better, they did announce at the time it was a massive job and needed done properly, both the UK and Scottish governments agreed that was the correct thing to do. If its wrong to delay it then they're both wrong, if its right then they're both right.

PS. I don't mean you personally, although this particular time yer in the frame for the diversion tactic! :D

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I think if the diversion was off topic then that's a fair comment, for example 'Tories have ****** up the welfare system' and then the reply is 'Yea but what currency will we have' but on most occasions its related to the lie or nonsense that's been posted. In this case yes the Tories may well have ******* up, but the SNP could have taken control of it in 2017 and for whatever reason never did and that seems a reasonable response and on topic to the original post.

As long as they stay on topic then I would expect it and encourage it on both sides. With the massive SNP slant we have on this board then we would end up with one list considerably bigger than the other.

[Just Alf]

I think if the diversion was off topic then that's a fair comment, for example 'Tories have ****** up the welfare system' and then the reply is 'Yea but what currency will we have' but on most occasions its related to the lie or nonsense that's been posted. In this case yes the Tories may well have ******* up, but the SNP could have taken control of it in 2017 and for whatever reason never did and that seems a reasonable response and on topic to the original post.

As long as they stay on topic then I would expect it and encourage it on both sides. With the massive SNP slant we have on this board then we would end up with one list considerably bigger than the other.I DO know where you're coming from and that post I tend to agree with, it's perfectly valid to bring up a counterpoint re a similar issue by another party. This time it seemed that we're now talking about the SNP (actually the Scottish government I guess cause there was cross party support) rather than the original point.

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[Moulin Yarns]

I DO know where you're coming from and that post I tend to agree with, it's perfectly valid to bring up a counterpoint re a similar issue by another party. This time it seemed that we're now talking about the SNP (actually the Scottish government I guess cause there was cross party support) rather than the original point.

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When you say cross party support do you mean all parties except the Tories who are there only to block everything the government wants. :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

I DO know where you're coming from and that post I tend to agree with, it's perfectly valid to bring up a counterpoint re a similar issue by another party. This time it seemed that we're now talking about the SNP (actually the Scottish government I guess cause there was cross party support) rather than the original point.

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I think what we were actually talking about was civil service ****-ups but that doesn't suit either the Tories are evil* or SNP are incompetent narratives.


* they totally are btw. :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

I think if the diversion was off topic then that's a fair comment, for example 'Tories have ****** up the welfare system' and then the reply is 'Yea but what currency will we have' but on most occasions its related to the lie or nonsense that's been posted. In this case yes the Tories may well have ******* up, but the SNP could have taken control of it in 2017 and for whatever reason never did and that seems a reasonable response and on topic to the original post.

As long as they stay on topic then I would expect it and encourage it on both sides. With the massive SNP slant we have on this board then we would end up with one list considerably bigger than the other.

Really? I accept the majority of the hibs.net population are more Yes than No (and rightly so, obv :wink:) but in terms of active HG posters it's much more balanced.

[johnbc70]

I think what we were actually talking about was civil service ****-ups but that doesn't suit either the Tories are evil* or SNP are incompetent narratives.


* they totally are btw. :wink:

It was the DWP and I did point that out.

[johnbc70]

Really? I accept the majority of the hibs.net population are more Yes than No (and rightly so, obv :wink:) but in terms of active HG posters it's much more balanced.

I would disagree, in some cases it almost feels like you post an anti SNP message and the dogs are let loose on you. Some posters can be balanced and accept other people have a different view or opinion, but there are a lot who just don't understand that someone might have a different viewpoint or opinion. They can't fathom that someone cannot think what they think or what they feel.

[grunt]

I would disagree, in some cases it almost feels like you post an anti SNP message and the dogs are let loose on you. Perhaps it's because, whatever the subject under discussion, you always seem to weigh in with an anti-SNP message? Even like on this thread, where the topic is the Tories and their duplicity, you've succeeded in turning the discussion against the SNP.

Maybe it's not us, it's you?

[Hibrandenburg]

Perhaps it's because, whatever the subject under discussion, you always seem to weigh in with an anti-SNP message? Even like on this thread, where the topic is the Tories and their duplicity, you've succeeded in turning the discussion against the SNP.

Maybe it's not us, it's you?

In a nutshell.

[JeMeSouviens]

I would disagree, in some cases it almost feels like you post an anti SNP message and the dogs are let loose on you. Some posters can be balanced and accept other people have a different view or opinion, but there are a lot who just don't understand that someone might have a different viewpoint or opinion. They can't fathom that someone cannot think what they think or what they feel.

What grunt said plus you repeatedly raise points you don't actually want to discuss. The obvious one being currency. Currency choice in iScotland has been debated seriously on here multiple times. There are only a few options and they are well known. You bring it up not to discuss it but because you know it's a Better Together Talking Point stick for beating nats. I think this forum is (mostly) better than that.

[ronaldo7]

I think the DWP deserve the criticism and rightly so, they are a Tory government department. But at the same time the SNP have had the ability to take over the welfare payment system in Scotland but have failed to so do, they have even asked the Tories to keep administering it for them on their behalf. That also deserves some criticism as well does it not? If they had the chance to take it out the hands of their tories in 2017 then they should have. They could have implemented their fairness, dignity and respect much sooner and as you say that's a good thing.

So both the Tories and SNP could have done better on this episode.


It was the DWP and I did point that out.

So you did.:faf::faf:

[JeMeSouviens]

Reports coming in of a middle aged man nicking bags of sugar from food banks ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DttyKh9W0AAGobH.jpg

[Fife-Hibee]

A snippet from the Scottish Sun. :Ummm:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtzcguPW4AAxvAk.jpg:large

They're not even trying anymore.

[stoneyburn hibs]

A snippet from the Scottish Sun. :Ummm:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtzcguPW4AAxvAk.jpg:large

They're not even trying anymore.

Ffs, I'm eating my lunch.

[xyz23jc]

Ffs, I'm eating my lunch.

PC nearly oot thi windae there!!! :greengrin

[stoneyburn hibs]

PC nearly oot thi windae there!!! :greengrin

😁😁😁

[Lendo]

Looks like the tories used this drone story to quietly bury an £85m cut to health funding for the NHS down south.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/government-sneaks-out-ps85m-cut-to-public-health-on-last-day-before-parliamentary-recess_uk_5c1bc9bee4b0407e90785176

Don't you just love it when something big happens to distract the public?

[Colr]

Looks like the tories used this drone story to quietly bury an £85m cut to health funding for the NHS down south.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/government-sneaks-out-ps85m-cut-to-public-health-on-last-day-before-parliamentary-recess_uk_5c1bc9bee4b0407e90785176

Don't you just love it when something big happens to distract the public?

Can’t be. Brexit is going to provide more money for the NHS

[Just Alf]

Can’t be. Brexit is going to provide more money for the NHSIndeed... only just back in June May/the Tories were crowing about giving the NHS more money as part of the Brexit Dividend!

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-44495598


:confused:

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[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1079311921625657344?s=19

[Moulin Yarns]

Tories plan return to the empire



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-military-bases-caribbean-far-east-eu-global-player-a8703816.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

[Hibrandenburg]

Tories plan return to the empire



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-military-bases-caribbean-far-east-eu-global-player-a8703816.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

"Gavin Williamson*said he was looking into new opportunities for the*armed forces".

Wtf does that actually mean?

[lapsedhibee]

"Gavin Williamson*said he was looking into new opportunities for the*armed forces".

Wtf does that actually mean?

He said that while “the rest of the world saw Britain standing 10 feet tall – when actually we stood six feet tall – Britons saw us standing five feet tall, not the six, and certainly not the 10.”

Clearly it's about making us taller.

[Moulin Yarns]

He said that while “the rest of the world saw Britain standing 10 feet tall – when actually we stood six feet tall – Britons saw us standing five feet tall, not the six, and certainly not the 10.”

Clearly it's about making us taller.



So it's my army's taller than yours mentality. Figures.

[lapsedhibee]

So it's my army's taller than yours mentality. Figures.

Country will be poorer, less well fed, less healthy etc etc etc after Brexit but at the least the government will be able to say we're taller. That'll make it all worthwhile.

[1875godsgift]

Tories plan return to the empire



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-military-bases-caribbean-far-east-eu-global-player-a8703816.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true


The guy is in cloud cuckoo land.

[Jack Hackett]

Country will be poorer, less well fed, less healthy etc etc etc after Brexit but at the least the government will be able to say we're taller. That'll make it all worthwhile.

If they can throw in younger and more handsome, then I'm sold

[Moulin Yarns]

Who doesn't like a trier?

https://twitter.com/RossThomson_MP/status/1086649389333049344?s=19

It's like a party political broadcast for the SNP

[Fife-Hibee]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-to-block-post-brexit-trade-role-for-scottish-government-1-4860755

If this isn't enough to push Scotland over the edge, then absolutely nothing ever will.

[Just Alf]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-to-block-post-brexit-trade-role-for-scottish-government-1-4860755

If this isn't enough to push Scotland over the edge, then absolutely nothing ever will.It's like they don't want Scotland to have any responsibilities within the UK, its almost like they think the "equal partners" stuff really is just a bluff we'd not notice and that they actually do believe their "we're too wee, too poor" stuff they spouted.

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[Fife-Hibee]

It's like they don't want Scotland to have any responsibilities within the UK, its almost like they think the "equal partners" stuff really is just a bluff we'd not notice and that they actually do believe their "we're too wee, too poor" stuff they spouted.

Seems incredible doesn't it?

What's even more incredible is that they're right. Most people still aren't noticing it.

[JeMeSouviens]

It's like they don't want Scotland to have any responsibilities within the UK, its almost like they think the "equal partners" stuff really is just a bluff we'd not notice and that they actually do believe their "we're too wee, too poor" stuff they spouted.

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The Scots Tories would scrap Holyrood in a second if they thought they could get away with it.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Seems incredible doesn't it?

What's even more incredible is that they're right. Most people still aren't noticing it.

I think you're wrong mate, given what's been going on with politics in Scotland in the last 5 or 6 years the Scottish public are very much aware. Much more than ever before due to social media etc. It's coming, be patient.

[Fife-Hibee]

I think you're wrong mate, given what's been going on with politics in Scotland in the last 5 or 6 years the Scottish public are very much aware. Much more than ever before due to social media etc. It's coming, be patient.

Not so sure about that. No voters are like con victims. People who know they've been conned by an artist, but down right refuse to admit it to themselves or those around them out of sheer embarrassment. So they cling on blindly to the one conning them in the continued delusion that they were always right to trust them and should always trust them no matter what.

It wouldn't surprise me if unionism hardened even further in Scotland to the point where the "silent majority" want to see the Scottish Parliament torched down to the ground under orders from London.

It's getting deeply depressing now.

[Fife-Hibee]

The Scots Tories would scrap Holyrood in a second if they thought they could get away with it.

Well without the EU, then now can get away with it. They're just waiting for the opportune moment to do so.

[IGRIGI]

People get all hot under the collar about the use of the word quislings, but it's the only adequate word for describing Ruth's staunch loyal.

[heretoday]

The Scots Tories would scrap Holyrood in a second if they thought they could get away with it.

What? And give up their nice jobs in the Parliament?
I think not.

[degenerated]

Well without the EU, then now can get away with it. They're just waiting for the opportune moment to do so.They're not even trying to hide it

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/office-of-the-secretary-of-state-for-scotland-to-join-uk-government-edinburgh-hub

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[Fife-Hibee]

Are we really surprised these days? :rolleyes:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17404171.secret-brexit-meeting-between-orange-order-and-scottish-tory-minister/?fbclid=IwAR2EKSgGkG0Z2zHF_p8HXVUekO2DQpXvOGWJ8s5W k9BnrwQYJhc6cgyGagc

Not really surprised that Hugh Gaffney and Alistair Carmichael were present as well. :rolleyes:

[ronaldo7]

Are we really surprised these days? :rolleyes:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17404171.secret-brexit-meeting-between-orange-order-and-scottish-tory-minister/?fbclid=IwAR2EKSgGkG0Z2zHF_p8HXVUekO2DQpXvOGWJ8s5W k9BnrwQYJhc6cgyGagc

Not really surprised that Hugh Gaffney and Alistair Carmichael were present as well. :rolleyes:



Gathering their foot soldiers, for the battle ahead. I remember the links which were uncovered after indyref1, and we were told, we were trying to link the unionist parties with the orange order, and it wasn't really true.

Labour council in falkirk, giving the OO, funds from the roads budget, and now funds given in Motherwell.

It stinks to high heaven. I'm not surprised at all that wee Hugh is involved.

[Fife-Hibee]

Gathering their foot soldiers, for the battle ahead. I remember the links which were uncovered after indyref1, and we were told, we were trying to link the unionist parties with the orange order, and it wasn't really true.

Labour council in falkirk, giving the OO, funds from the roads budget, and now funds given in Motherwell.

It stinks to high heaven. I'm not surprised at all that wee Hugh is involved.

I've been saying it for years. But they're all masons. Whether in the OO or not. They're all connected. "Better Together" indeed.

[allmodcons]

Are we really surprised these days? :rolleyes:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17404171.secret-brexit-meeting-between-orange-order-and-scottish-tory-minister/?fbclid=IwAR2EKSgGkG0Z2zHF_p8HXVUekO2DQpXvOGWJ8s5W k9BnrwQYJhc6cgyGagc

Not really surprised that Hugh Gaffney and Alistair Carmichael were present as well. :rolleyes:

Embarrassing stuff. A vessel for religious intolerance and our elected politicians feel the need to meet with them!

Only last week one of their members (i.e. - morons) was convicted for spitting on a catholic priest.

A truly despicable organisation.

[Moulin Yarns]

Oops

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-47149988

[degenerated]

Are we really surprised these days? :rolleyes:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17404171.secret-brexit-meeting-between-orange-order-and-scottish-tory-minister/?fbclid=IwAR2EKSgGkG0Z2zHF_p8HXVUekO2DQpXvOGWJ8s5W k9BnrwQYJhc6cgyGagc

Not really surprised that Hugh Gaffney and Alistair Carmichael were present as well. :rolleyes:Isn't Gaffney still a councillor in North Lanarkshire. A Labour/Tory coalition where, whilst cuts to libraries etc are being made, they passed a motion to spend 20 odd grand on a new flagpole for a union flag and gave a cash donation to the orange lodge.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Mr Grieves]

Tory Mp Christopher Chope strikes again.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/christopher-chope-blocks-fgm-prevention-bill-tory-mp-conservative-a8770026.html

Horrible ****.

[Mibbes Aye]

Tory Mp Christopher Chope strikes again.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/christopher-chope-blocks-fgm-prevention-bill-tory-mp-conservative-a8770026.html

Horrible ****.

:agree:

He claims he is upholding parliamentary principle but doesn’t object in similar circumstances when it is one of his crowd putting something forward.

Horrible but also hypocritical.

[ronaldo7]

Are the 13 tory MP's, representing Scottish seats getting an easy ride at the moment?

[matty_f]

Are the 13 tory MP's, representing Scottish seats getting an easy ride at the moment?

I struggle to believe there are Tories getting any kind of a ride, to be honest. I think if they did, they'd be less likely to be Tories.

[jonty]

I struggle to believe there are Tories getting any kind of a ride, to be honest. I think if they did, they'd be less likely to be Tories.

Unless there are pigs in the room.

[Jack Hackett]

Unless there are pigs in the room.

They definitely have a lot of elephants in the room

[JeMeSouviens]

Scottish Young Conservatives:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5pBUB2XsAAWuxe.jpg


Average age about 50 :faf:

Full size here - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5pBUB2XsAAWuxe.jpg

[JeMeSouviens]

Theresa May heckled at Welsh Tory conference:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/status/1124278893102473216


What she needs is a totally supine gathering that will nod along with any old pish the UK leadership tells them to and to **** with local concerns - so next stop Scottish Tory conference it is then! :rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

Scottish Young Conservatives:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5pBUB2XsAAWuxe.jpg


Average age about 50 :faf:

Full size here - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5pBUB2XsAAWuxe.jpg

Not only that, but they put out 72 seats, in a hall that could seat maybe 500 and still couldn't fill them all.

[Just Alf]

Not only that, but they put out 72 seats, in a hall that could seat maybe 500 and still couldn't fill them all.

You're being a bit mean!.... are you deliberately trying to make it appear worse?! :grr:


It's ACTUALLY 76, if you included the speakers desk it's 79 ...... see much, much better! :devil:

[Moulin Yarns]

You're being a bit mean!.... are you deliberately trying to make it appear worse?! :grr:


It's ACTUALLY 76, if you included the speakers desk it's 79 ...... see much, much better! :devil:

Average age 50, and that's more than are there, including the cameraman, and the 25 strong press gang. :devil:

[Hibrandenburg]

Boris Johnson supposedly tweeted earlier that he'd voted already despite him living in London where no election was taking place. He removed the tweet but not fast enough.

[JeMeSouviens]

Ruth is back! And reckons she's going to be the next First Minister apparently.

So quick look at how that's going via last week's yougov poll:

Holyrood VI constituency:

SNP 46
Con 22
Lab 16
Lib 7
Brexit 4
Greens 3
Change 1

Holyrood VI regional:

SNP 37
Con 20
Lab 15
Green 10
Lib 7
Brexit 5
Change 2

Suspending my disbelief for a second ... let's say she has the faintest chance of turning these numbers round to a point where she's largest party by 2021 (that's 2 years against a backdrop of Brexit!)

Who the hell does she think is going to vote along with her to get anything through parliament? :crazy:

[Moulin Yarns]

Jesus. That's ridiculous



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/03/ballot-paper-marked-brexit-win-tory-councillor

[Bostonhibby]

Scottish Young Conservatives:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5pBUB2XsAAWuxe.jpg


Average age about 50 :faf:

Full size here - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5pBUB2XsAAWuxe.jpgThey're doing a cracking job of bringing the average age down.

Will be a brilliant post meeting party. I can see at least another 4 people under 50 from all over Scotland turning up.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

some tory dude using the scouts to deliver leaflets lol

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/tories-use-scouts-election-leaflets-2811916?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&fbclid=IwAR1p-_vdyoGShuOuYVmRwS4ASWfjL6Ms4uLnWAncbQiLFuDFkGuKTyq RaWk


A bitter row has broken out after Scouts were used to deliver election leaflets for Conservative candidates.
In return it is claimed they were promised money to rent space in an allotment to grow vegetables for a soup kitchen.

[Fife-Hibee]

Michael Gove (possible future PM) wants to withhold money from the Scottish Parliament for agriculture and education and have it spent directly by the UK Government, as to control the initiatives that the money is spent on.

Expect a lot of textbooks with union jacks plastered over them in our schools in the coming years. :rolleyes:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/michael-gove-says-uk-could-withhold-cash-from-scottish-government-1-4920727?fbclid=IwAR2x7bGiCkSUlKEKmnuROv1Xy9Sci0bmk DluSrCXtTvqWiJZ0b***531jEs

[Mibbes Aye]

Michael Gove (possible future PM) wants to withhold money from the Scottish Parliament for agriculture and education and have it spent directly by the UK Government, as to control the initiatives that the money is spent on.

Expect a lot of textbooks with union jacks plastered over them in our schools in the coming years. :rolleyes:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/michael-gove-says-uk-could-withhold-cash-from-scottish-government-1-4920727?fbclid=IwAR2x7bGiCkSUlKEKmnuROv1Xy9Sci0bmk DluSrCXtTvqWiJZ0b***531jEs

Are you for real?

I'm definitely not a Tory, I wouldn't want to guess what you are, but your post doesn't stand up to a second of scrutiny!

The Scotsman isn't the most reliable source to begin with, but the text makes clear he is talking about additional money outwith the agreed settlement.

Can you substantiate your point that he is wanting to withhold money from Ag and Fish and from Education? (Clue here - he might not legally have those powers :wink:)

'Textbooks with Union Jacks' - really? Is that the level of debate or argument on here?

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm definitely not a Tory

Could have fooled me..... and everybody else on here. :wink:


I wouldn't want to guess what you are, but your post doesn't stand up to a second of scrutiny!

The Scotsman isn't the most reliable source to begin with, but the text makes clear he is talking about additional money outwith the agreed settlement.

Can you substantiate your point that he is wanting to withhold money from Ag and Fish and from Education? (Clue here - he might not legally have those powers :wink:)

The UK government is already illegally withholding cash from the Scottish Government regarding farmer subsidies. Little things like the law have never stood in their way. They have previous for changing laws when taken to court.

Are you suggesting that Gove is talking about additional spending over and above what the Scottish Parliament already recieves. So there would be absolutely no cuts to the Scottish budget in order to facilitate this little UK Government spending spree?


'Textbooks with Union Jacks' - really? Is that the level of debate or argument on here?

I apologize for the standard of debate not being up to the high standards that you grace us with on here. :not worth

[Mibbes Aye]

Could have fooled me..... and everybody else on here. :wink:



The UK government is already illegally withholding cash from the Scottish Government regarding farmer subsidies. Little things like the law have never stood in their way. They have previous for changing laws when taken to court.

Are you suggesting that Gove is talking about additional spending over and above what the Scottish Parliament already recieves. So there would be absolutely no cuts to the Scottish budget in order to facilitate this little UK Government spending spree?



I apologize for the standard of debate not being up to the high standards that you grace us with on here. :not worth

Where to start!

Let's take one point at a time.

I'm not 'suggesting' Gove is talking about additional spending, he says it in the article you quoted. And then you then went on to say he was withholding money.

So, which is it?

We can do each one of your points at a time, keep it nice and easy, and have a proper debate?

Then we can get back to you suggesting I'm a Tory because I would love to get into that, because hey, it would be fun and you never know, you might be right. Or I might be a Nationalist provocateur, constantly challenging Nat posters to keep them sharp.

Or maybe I'm just calling it as I see it and I don't expect my opinion to carry any more weight than yours or anyone else but I will call it out if it smells like bull**** :dunno:

[Fife-Hibee]

Where to start!

Let's take one point at a time.

I'm not 'suggesting' Gove is talking about additional spending, he says it in the article you quoted. And then you then went on to say he was withholding money.

So, which is it?

We can do each one of your points at a time, keep it nice and easy, and have a proper debate?

Then we can get back to you suggesting I'm a Tory because I would love to get into that, because hey, it would be fun and you never know, you might be right. Or I might be a Nationalist provocateur, constantly challenging Nat posters to keep them sharp.

Or maybe I'm just calling it as I see it and I don't expect my opinion to carry any more weight than yours or anyone else but I will call it out if it smells like bull**** :dunno:

So you're not suggesting that the Scottish Parliament won't lose funding, but you're not suggesting that money will be withheld either? Which one is it?

[marinello59]

Michael Gove (possible future PM) wants to withhold money from the Scottish Parliament for agriculture and education and have it spent directly by the UK Government, as to control the initiatives that the money is spent on.

Expect a lot of textbooks with union jacks plastered over them in our schools in the coming years. :rolleyes:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/michael-gove-says-uk-could-withhold-cash-from-scottish-government-1-4920727?fbclid=IwAR2x7bGiCkSUlKEKmnuROv1Xy9Sci0bmk DluSrCXtTvqWiJZ0b***531jEs

It’s an odd statement from Gove. The Scotsman’s headline makes the claim that he is going to hold back funding but thats not what he actually says. He seems to want to spend extra money to stop the Scottish Government taking credit for doing the things they are responsible for doing. Either he does not understand how devolution works or doesn’t like that it does. I’d dismiss him as an oddball but there is a real danger he could become our next PM. That is a scarey thought.

[Bristolhibby]

It’s an odd statement from Gove. The Scotsman’s headline makes the claim that he is going to hold back funding but thats not what he actually says. He seems to want to spend extra money to stop the Scottish Government taking credit for doing the things they are responsible for doing. Either he does not understand how devolution works or doesn’t like that it does. I’d dismiss him as an oddball but there is a real danger he could become our next PM. That is a scarey thought.

Give for PM is the strongest case for Independence in these many pages of debate.

J

[Future17]

some tory dude using the scouts to deliver leaflets lol

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/tories-use-scouts-election-leaflets-2811916?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&fbclid=IwAR1p-_vdyoGShuOuYVmRwS4ASWfjL6Ms4uLnWAncbQiLFuDFkGuKTyq RaWk


A bitter row has broken out after Scouts were used to deliver election leaflets for Conservative candidates.
In return it is claimed they were promised money to rent space in an allotment to grow vegetables for a soup kitchen.

This is a strange one in that, based on what I've read, I don't think the Tory councillors did anything wrong.

[Just Alf]

This is a strange one in that, based on what I've read, I don't think the Tory councillors did anything wrong.For me it's more the scouts that are wrong to a degree, I've always understood them to be non political.

It may be they've done similar for other parties previously/elsewhere, and if that's the case then there's no issue at all, the other parties missed a trick as there would have been nothing stopping them doing the same thing.

Mind you, if the above hasn't been the case and the Scout leader is a Tory then the whole argument opens up again.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

A wee look at the the final percentages

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1124579038864056320?s=19

[Mibbes Aye]

So you're not suggesting that the Scottish Parliament won't lose funding, but you're not suggesting that money will be withheld either? Which one is it?

That’s the best two sentences I’ve ever read in my life.

You offer me two options of things you say I’m not doing and then ask me to say which one I don’t want to do? :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

A wee look at the the final percentages

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1124579038864056320?s=19

Not really looked closely at the results since staying up half the night for the coverage.

Salient points for me are:

Bad for the Tories but always going to happen, as they were defending the most seats and they are in such a bad place. The damage was severe but probably within their expectations.

Bad for Labour because they are caught between a rock and a hard place - they aren’t appeasing the Brexit element and they certainly aren’t appeasing the Remain majority of their support. That was made clear.

Good for Lib Dems who might just be shrugging off the taint of the Coalition years. There is a real opportunity for them when Cable steps down to reinvent themselves with a new leader. But they traditionally do well at locals and need to translate that into something more powerful.

Good for the Greens, a lot more people elected, but they need to harness that into not just being a protest vote. There is potential to rope in the Extinction sentiment that people are buying into, if they are canny, and use that to become a more significant political player.

UKIP - they weren’t contesting as many seats as before, I think, so I’m not reading too much into vote share. They have effectively splintered though. Farage creating the Brexit Party means that the remainder UKIP will increasingly become a haven for the far-right.

Independents - massive spike. In some parts of the country there is a natural desire and need for Inds but the volume this time feels like many are a protest vote. Maybe that means that party politics is doomed but I suspect there are rich pickings for the main parties if they can get their message right.

Brexit Party and Change UK - good election for them as the results indicate that they would have enjoyed success had they stood. I guess we will see.

Overall, I think the results point to an irrevocable tear in the electorate. I’m a Remainer for idealistic reasons but also pragmatic ones. I always figured the pragmatic reasons would win over the Brexiteers when it came to the crunch but I think we are sadly beyond that now and we are looking at ever deeper entrenchment.

[Moulin Yarns]

I can't remember who said it but a tory suggests that we are seeing a tsunami with the local elections being the tory tide going out and in 3 weeks all the tory vote will come flooding back.

Cannae see it masel.

[Jack Hackett]

I can't remember who said it but a tory suggests that we are seeing a tsunami with the local elections being the tory tide going out and in 3 weeks all the tory vote will come flooding back.

Cannae see it masel.

I refer you to the thread title

:greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

With the Scottish Conservative Party conference now over. I wish them all a safe trip back home. :agree:

https://i.ibb.co/Jqvkzfx/lol.jpg

[Moulin Yarns]

With the Scottish Conservative Party conference now over. I wish them all a safe trip back home. :agree:

https://i.ibb.co/Jqvkzfx/lol.jpg

Ah yes, murdo ****ing fraser. The msp who has managed to bring Scotland into line with England by having an appeal system for private parking charge notices and will try to introduce keeper liability to bring us into line with England. Best thing I can say about him is that he has a face you couldn't tire of slapping 😉

[Mr Grieves]

https://twitter.com/RCunninghamSNP/status/1124650473611509760

Mundell lying here

[cabbageandribs1875]

This is a strange one in that, based on what I've read, I don't think the Tory councillors did anything wrong.


i do agree, they were getting something back i just thought it was quite cheeky getting wee laddies to do their job for them, it won't be long before political parties start paying the post office to do all their leafleting :greengrin


With the Scottish Conservative Party conference now over. I wish them all a safe trip back home. :agree:

https://i.ibb.co/Jqvkzfx/lol.jpg


Age concern, aye RIGHT, they ****s are gonna batter pensioners pockets in the near future, they've been desperate to get shot of the pensioners triple lock for a while now, and nearly 70% of scottish pensioners voted No in 2014, that's going to come back and bite them on their er*es, i wonder how many of them actually now know they are paid one of the lowest pensions in Europe, tories and 'age concern' my e*se. :bitchy:

[Fife-Hibee]

i do agree, they were getting something back i just thought it was quite cheeky getting wee laddies to do their job for them, it won't be long before political parties start paying the post office to do all their leafleting :greengrin




Age concern, aye RIGHT, they ****s are gonna batter pensioners pockets in the near future, they've been desperate to get shot of the pensioners triple lock for a while now, and nearly 70% of scottish pensioners voted No in 2014, that's going to come back and bite them on their er*es, i wonder how many of them actually now know they are paid one of the lowest pensions in Europe, tories and 'age concern' my e*se. :bitchy:

You've got it all wrong. They're not concerned about pensioners. They're concerned that they are pensioners. :wink:

[Jack Hackett]

https://twitter.com/RCunninghamSNP/status/1124650473611509760

Mundell lying here

Trump has given liars everywhere proof that they can say wtf they like with little consequence

[Future17]

For me it's more the scouts that are wrong to a degree, I've always understood them to be non political.

It may be they've done similar for other parties previously/elsewhere, and if that's the case then there's no issue at all, the other parties missed a trick as there would have been nothing stopping them doing the same thing.

Mind you, if the above hasn't been the case and the Scout leader is a Tory then the whole argument opens up again.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

It sounded like a good deal for all parties but you're right the Scouts are non-political, which is why the leader and his assistants has quit. I think that outcome is a real shame though.

[Just Alf]

It sounded like a good deal for all parties but you're right the Scouts are non-political, which is why the leader and his assistants has quit. I think that outcome is a real shame though.

Not seen that, and yes it is a real shame... these folks have given up their time to help kids after all. What would have been better would be to have offered to do the same for the other parties in the upcoming EU elections (if they happen) then to draw a line under it as a charitable money making exercise that backfired.

[Fife-Hibee]

Yep, need to teach those kids early that it's all about money over principle. Let's teach them rules, then break those rules whenever money is involved. What better way to set them up in life?

[Future17]

Yep, need to teach those kids early that it's all about money over principle. Let's teach them rules, then break those rules whenever money is involved. What better way to set them up in life?

You've lost me?

[Fife-Hibee]

You've lost me?

The rules clearly state that they're "non political". They shouldn't be involved with any political parties full stop. They should draw the line under it right now, rather than trying to even things up by now doing it for all of the other parties. Even if they do lose out on charitable donations.

[Fife-Hibee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFTQVKu8lnE&feature=youtu.be

[Jack Hackett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFTQVKu8lnE&feature=youtu.be

I'm not holding my breath, but my fingers will be crossed that at the very least, political lying will get wider exposure than it currently gets

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/date-set-for-court-against-boris-johnson-1-6034496

[lapsedhibee]

I'm not holding my breath, but my fingers will be crossed that at the very least, political lying will get wider exposure than it currently gets

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/date-set-for-court-against-boris-johnson-1-6034496

At least Boris, unlike Nige, takes his job super-seriously. Only person out of 9 million Londoners who made the effort to turn up and cast a vote in local elections last week. What a guy!

[Fife-Hibee]

At least Boris, unlike Nige, takes his job super-seriously. Only person out of 9 million Londoners who made the effort to turn up and cast a vote in local elections last week. What a guy!

Yep and also the only person out of 1 who managed to turn up and cast his vote without even turning up to do so. :greengrin

[Future17]

Yep, need to teach those kids early that it's all about money over principle. Let's teach them rules, then break those rules whenever money is involved. What better way to set them up in life?


The rules clearly state that they're "non political". They shouldn't be involved with any political parties full stop. They should draw the line under it right now, rather than trying to even things up by now doing it for all of the other parties. Even if they do lose out on charitable donations.

The story was that the Scout leader had agreed to have Scouts deliver elections leaflets in return for a one-year lease on an allotment. The allotment was to be used by the Scout group to learn about growing their own produce which was, in turn, to be used in the running of a community soup kitchen.

I'm staggered that anyone would characterise that as teaching kids "that it's all about money over principle". I strongly suspect that, had it been representatives of your own preferred party involved in this story, you would have a much more sympathetic view. It's also worth noting that the Tories involved in this story have not broken any rules for their part.

[Fife-Hibee]

The story was that the Scout leader had agreed to have Scouts deliver elections leaflets in return for a one-year lease on an allotment. The allotment was to be used by the Scout group to learn about growing their own produce which was, in turn, to be used in the running of a community soup kitchen.

I'm staggered that anyone would characterise that as teaching kids "that it's all about money over principle". I strongly suspect that, had it been representatives of your own preferred party involved in this story, you would have a much more sympathetic view. It's also worth noting that the Tories involved in this story have not broken any rules for their part.

Then your suspicion would be wrong. Scouts should not be ordered to deliver election leaflets for ANY party as i've already stated. They are a non-political organization. What a party offers them in return is completely irrelevant. Of course the irony of helping out this particular party is that their ideology contributes greatly to the increased use of community soup kitchens.

[Future17]

Then your suspicion would be wrong. Scouts should not be ordered to deliver election leaflets for ANY party as i've already stated. They are a non-political organization. What a party offers them in return is completely irrelevant. Of course the irony of helping out this particular party is that their ideology contributes greatly to the increased use of community soup kitchens.

I don't think what is on offer in return is irrelevant in circumstances where you've stated the kids were being taught money is more important than principles, which is the sort of sensationalist hyperbole which will either spread "fake news", or reduce the likelihood of people trusting any statements you make in other posts.

[Fife-Hibee]

I don't think what is on offer in return is irrelevant in circumstances where you've stated the kids were being taught money is more important than principles, which is the sort of sensationalist hyperbole which will either spread "fake news", or reduce the likelihood of people trusting any statements you make in other posts.

How is it "fake news" to say that a non-political organization involving children should not hand out leaflets for a political party on principle?

Your argument seems to be that it's ok, as long as they're getting something back in return. I disagree with that.

[Moulin Yarns]

Here's a thought, the local tory party could donate the money to the scouts, and expect nothing in return, that would be a first.

[Fife-Hibee]

Here's a thought, the local tory party could donate the money to the scouts, and expect nothing in return, that would be a first.

Or the party could put an end to their ideological austeity policies, then the scouts wouldn't need to worry about helping out as many charities.

[Future17]

How is it "fake news" to say that a non-political organization involving children should not hand out leaflets for a political party on principle?

Your argument seems to be that it's ok, as long as they're getting something back in return. I disagree with that.

You described a story about a Scout troop delivering election leaflets in exchange for an allotment, which was to be used for educating those Scouts and running a community soup kitchen, as teaching kids "that it's all about money over principle". You've put a spin on the story which is unsupported by the facts, hence "fake news".

[Fife-Hibee]

You described a story about a Scout troop delivering election leaflets in exchange for an allotment, which was to be used for educating those Scouts and running a community soup kitchen, as teaching kids "that it's all about money over principle". You've put a spin on the story which is unsupported by the facts, hence "fake news".

A community soup kitchen that may not have needed to exist without the austerity policies of the party that they are delivering leaflets for. It's easy to call anything you don't like out as "fake news". Doesn't make it so though.

[Jack Hackett]

Something I haven't heard asked in connection with this scout thingy is... 'Where was this allotment coming from, as the majority of allotment land is owned by local authorities?'

https://www.allotment-garden.org/allotment-information/allotment-history/

The average yearly rent btw is between £20-40... so, nice bit of cheap labour then eh :wink:

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if what they'd have got was a bit of a tip, which would take a year to get suitable for use.

No flies on a tory

[Future17]

A community soup kitchen that may not have needed to exist without the austerity policies of the party that they are delivering leaflets for. It's easy to call anything you don't like out as "fake news". Doesn't make it so though.

I'm not disagreeing with your first sentence. What I'm saying, again, is that you stated the actions of those involved in the relevant story was teaching kids "that it's all about money over principle"; that is quite simply untrue and your posting it on a public forum makes it fake news.

That I suspect you know this basic point is untrue, yet are attempting to obfuscate your actions by refocusing on other aspects of what you posted, seems cowardly to me, but that's another matter to the main point.

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm not disagreeing with your first sentence. What I'm saying, again, is that you stated the actions of those involved in the relevant story was teaching kids "that it's all about money over principle"; that is quite simply untrue and your posting it on a public forum makes it fake news.

That I suspect you know this basic point is untrue, yet are attempting to obfuscate your actions by refocusing on other aspects of what you posted, seems cowardly to me, but that's another matter to the main point.

It may not be intentional. But that is ultimately the lesson they would learn from this situation. Children don't learn from what is said, they learn from action and those actions put money before principle. It's not even disputable.

[Future17]

It may not be intentional. But that is ultimately the lesson they would learn from this situation. Children don't learn from what is said, they learn from action and those actions put money before principle. It's not even disputable.

I accept it's subjective, to an extent, what "lesson" would be learned, but what is not subjective is that there was no "money" involved.

If you think I'm wrong, please tell me where the "money" is in this scenario?

[Fife-Hibee]

I accept it's subjective, to an extent, what "lesson" would be learned, but what is not subjective is that there was no "money" involved.

If you think I'm wrong, please tell me where the "money" is in this scenario?

Are you suggesting that money wouldn't have been involved here? A political party offers a one-year lease. A lease that would presumably have cost money?

It was a bribe. It doesn't matter how it gets dressed up. They were offering to spend money on a "non political" organization in order to get them to participate in something political.

[Jack Hackett]

Are you suggesting that money wouldn't have been involved here? A political party offers a one-year lease. A lease that would presumably have cost money?

It was a bribe. It doesn't matter how it gets dressed up. They were offering to spend money on a "non political" organization in order to get them to participate in something political.

Regardless of how much money was involved, there are waiting lists for allotments pretty much everywhere. Someone on the waiting list would have been bumped to provide one for the scouts

[Future17]

Are you suggesting that money wouldn't have been involved here? A political party offers a one-year lease. A lease that would presumably have cost money?

It was a bribe. It doesn't matter how it gets dressed up. They were offering to spend money on a "non political" organization in order to get them to participate in something political.

I would have thought it was obvious that what I was suggesting, given that I explicitly stated that in my last post, but you've lost me again with your 2+2 = 5 approach to the news...do you know more about this story than has been reported?

In any event, you've now escalated to "bribe"...given that all of this was reportable to the Electoral Commission, in what way was it dishonest? I am no fan of the Tories but, in this instance, they were up-front with the Scouts about what the deal was and did not attempt to hide it from anybody.

[Fife-Hibee]

I would have thought it was obvious that what I was suggesting, given that I explicitly stated that in my last post, but you've lost me again with your 2+2 = 5 approach to the news...do you know more about this story than has been reported?

In any event, you've now escalated to "bribe"...given that all of this was reportable to the Electoral Commission, in what way was it dishonest? I am no fan of the Tories but, in this instance, they were up-front with the Scouts about what the deal was and did not attempt to hide it from anybody.

I'm calling it a bribe. Where did I say they were being "dishonest"? :confused:

An honest bribe is still a bribe. The fact the scout leaders knew what this was and still went through with it makes it even worse, which is why many have now resigned their positions.

[Future17]

I'm calling it a bribe. Where did I say they were being "dishonest"? :confused:

An honest bribe is still a bribe. The fact the scout leaders knew what this was and still went through with it makes it even worse, which is why many have now resigned their positions.

"An honest bribe"? You're either trolling, or you don't know the definition of the word "bribe".

[Hiber-nation]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48288433

The most inept Government Minister ever??

[ronaldo7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48288433

The most inept Government Minister ever??

I'm not opening the link, but Im putting my money on, failing Grayling.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm not opening the link, but Im putting my money on, failing Grayling.

Give the boy a coconut :wink:

[Fife-Hibee]

"An honest bribe"? You're either trolling, or you don't know the definition of the word "bribe".

Are you suggesting that all bribes are based on lies? Perhaps it's you that needs to check up on the definition.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48288433

The most inept Government Minister ever??

It is quite incredible just how many total **** ups he has overseen and yet survived. The perfect minister for the Theresa May era.

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/05/16/probation-privatisation-debacle-crazed-obsession-with-the-ma

[Moulin Yarns]

Hold the bus, I've found an honest Tory


https://twitter.com/SurreyAmps/status/1130733642043596800 :not worth

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/PoliticsScot/status/1131291411125559297?s=19

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Privileged powerful and entitled white man in business suit puts a female worker firmly in her place. Winds of change never stop blowing.

[Future17]

Are you suggesting that all bribes are based on lies? Perhaps it's you that needs to check up on the definition.

I can't recall anyone mentioning "lies"; you don't have to tell lies in order to be dishonest, however, offering a bribe (or accepting one for that matter) is dishonest.

If you genuinely believe I don't know the definition of "bribe", perhaps you could provide one which doesn't involve dishonesty.

[Fife-Hibee]

I can't recall anyone mentioning "lies"; you don't have to tell lies in order to be dishonest, however, offering a bribe (or accepting one for that matter) is dishonest.

If you genuinely believe I don't know the definition of "bribe", perhaps you could provide one which doesn't involve dishonesty.

Now you're saying dishonesty and lying are not the same thing? :faf:

I give up. You win. Well played. :aok:

[JeMeSouviens]

Here's an interesting bit of early Michael Gove, notable for 2 things:

- he used to have a bit of a Scots accent (who knew?)
- presumably we're meant to think it's satire but he looks like he believes every word!

https://twitter.com/chrismorrisbits/status/1132918660593537029

[Future17]

Now you're saying dishonesty and lying are not the same thing? :faf:

I give up. You win. Well played. :aok:

They clearly are not the same thing; whilst lying is dishonest, dishonesty does not require a person to lie. For example, stealing is dishonest, but you are not require to lie in order to steal.

I'm all for opinions, but this isn't the only occasion on this board you've stated something which can be shown to be untrue based on the available evidence. You're either intentionally misleading people or you're just reckless. Either way, it's behaviour that needs called out.

[Fife-Hibee]

They clearly are not the same thing; whilst lying is dishonest, dishonesty does not require a person to lie. For example, stealing is dishonest, but you are not require to lie in order to steal.

I'm all for opinions, but this isn't the only occasion on this board you've stated something which can be shown to be untrue based on the available evidence. You're either intentionally misleading people or you're just reckless. Either way, it's behaviour that needs called out.

Dis (the opposite)
Honest (truthful)
Dishonest (not truthful)

This is getting extremely infantile now. Clearly you're no happy about something that has occured lately, so i'll leave you to it. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

https://twitter.com/Darth_Brexit_/status/1132762277025853441

:greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

https://twitter.com/Darth_Brexit_/status/1132762277025853441

:greengrin

:greengrin

Replies are the best bit.

[1875godsgift]

I can't recall anyone mentioning "lies"; you don't have to tell lies in order to be dishonest, however, offering a bribe (or accepting one for that matter) is dishonest.

If you genuinely believe I don't know the definition of "bribe", perhaps you could provide one which doesn't involve dishonesty.

If we need to get to nursery quickly in the morning, I offer my 3 year old a packet of crisps if she'll get into the buggy.

Bribery, I know, but it's not dishonest, I always give her the crisps....

[Moulin Yarns]

Murdo fraser tells it like it is.


https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1132791428420128770?s=19

[Fife-Hibee]

Murdo fraser tells it like it is.


https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1132791428420128770?s=19

He's finally admitted to himself that he's an erse who has never been elected? :cb

[Fife-Hibee]

You can sense their pain and desperation - https://twitter.com/ScotTories

[JeMeSouviens]

Jeremy AlmostNominativeDeterminism has done an article in the Telegraph where he says pushing for No Deal would be "political suicide". Note he doesn't actually gaf that it would lead to the death of manufacturing industry in the UK, hundreds of thousands of job losses etc, he's just concerned the Tories wouldn't get re-elected. What a Hunt. :rolleyes:

[Fife-Hibee]

https://i.ibb.co/wNGMSDb/Untitled.png

https://i.ibb.co/LQKvrXc/deludamol.jpg

[The Modfather]

Was having a read about the Tory candidates having not heard of a fair few of them. Without knowing a great deal about some of them and how far right they are etc. On the face of it, Esther McVey seemed to come from a different background to the majority that attended Eton & Oxbridge.

In the context of a Tory Pm, so the least worst option, would her background as a Scouse foster child make her any more likely to “represent for the many and not the few”? Or is my cynicism of the majority of all politicians from all parties in being self serving a more likely outcome?

[grunt]

In July 2018 it was reported by the head of the National Audit Office (NAO) that McVey had misled parliament over the new Universal Credit scheme by claiming that the NAO report showed that it should be rolled out faster when in fact the report concluded that the roll-out should be paused.[41] She apologised to the House of Commons on 4 July 2018[4][5] amid calls for her resignation.[5] Margaret Greenwood said in Parliament, "The secretary of state should be ashamed that she has been forced to come to this house again. If she misread this report so badly this brings in to question her competence and her judgment. If she did read the report and chose to misrepresent its findings, she has clearly broken the ministerial code. Either way, she should resign."[42]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther_McVey

[allmodcons]

Boris helping vindicate the title thread?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48445430

[Fife-Hibee]

Some brilliant stuff cropping up on social media.

https://i.ibb.co/NsssZvd/permissionmeme.png

Exactly the way to respond to this kind of thing in my opinion.

[ronaldo7]

Some brilliant stuff cropping up on social media.

https://i.ibb.co/NsssZvd/permissionmeme.png

Exactly the way to respond to this kind of thing in my opinion.

It's been a hoot.

Watch out though, someone will be along soon enough to claim the Indy movement are bullying poor wee Saj.

[SHODAN]

This post's contents are withheld to the general public pending permission from Sajid Javid.

[stoneyburn hibs]

This post's contents are withheld to the general public pending permission from Sajid Javid.

😁😁

[JeMeSouviens]

V interesting thread here by the Telegraph's (yes, I know a hotbed of Marxist insurrection) Europe Editor, Peter Foster.

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1134036168239177728

... in which it turns out that Dominic Raab is:

a) a lying *******

and

b) a self-serving Jeremy Hunt


Who would ever have thought that? Consider me shocked, nay, stunned. :rolleyes:

[JeMeSouviens]

BUT HERE IS A GENUINE SHOCK!

Rory Stewart admits a no deal Brexit would see the end of UK manufacturing industry:

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1134020453897515008

He seems to have got a bit lost on his way from a 19th Century Imperial adventure, but Rory Stewart may have elements of truthfulness about him. No chance the Tory members are going to go for that!

[Bangkok Hibby]

In July 2018 it was reported by the head of the National Audit Office (NAO) that McVey had misled parliament over the new Universal Credit scheme by claiming that the NAO report showed that it should be rolled out faster when in fact the report concluded that the roll-out should be paused.[41] She apologised to the House of Commons on 4 July 2018[4][5] amid calls for her resignation.[5] Margaret Greenwood said in Parliament, "The secretary of state should be ashamed that she has been forced to come to this house again. If she misread this report so badly this brings in to question her competence and her judgment. If she did read the report and chose to misrepresent its findings, she has clearly broken the ministerial code. Either way, she should resign."[42]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther_McVey

Tory women politicians = ****s. Said it before and probably won't ever change my mind. Way worse than the men, rabid harridans every one. Leadsom gets a "maybe" because she has nice pins.
Shallow and childish perhaps but do any deserve a better critique?

[JeMeSouviens]

Tory women politicians = ****s. Said it before and probably won't ever change my mind. Way worse than the men, rabid harridans every one. Leadsom gets a "maybe" because she has nice pins.
Shallow and childish perhaps but do any deserve a better critique?

I don't think they're generally worse than the men, tbh. :dunno:

Loathsome - Esther McVey vs Dominic Raab
Hopeless - Chris Grayling vs Karen Bradley
Ok-ish, for a Tory - Justine Greening vs Dominic Grieve
Utterly mental - Mark Francois vs Andrea Jenkyns

[Bangkok Hibby]

I don't think they're generally worse than the men, tbh. :dunno:

Loathsome - Esther McVey vs Dominic Raab
Hopeless - Chris Grayling vs Karen Bradley
Ok-ish, for a Tory - Justine Greening vs Dominic Grieve
Utterly mental - Mark Francois vs Andrea Jenkyns

Yep I agree. But I'm going back a long way. Fearsome creatures...Thatcher, Bottomley, et al

[Moulin Yarns]

Does anyone agree with getting energy from Nuclear power stations?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48509942

[bigwheel]

Does anyone agree with getting energy from Nuclear power stations?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48509942


Without them , there is currently not enough sources of energy supply to meet the demand...so until that is solved, we need a mixed economy of energy production in the UK....

[Moulin Yarns]

Without them , there is currently not enough sources of energy supply to meet the demand...so until that is solved, we need a mixed economy of energy production in the UK....

Thankfully we are moving away from reliance on 'dirty' energy

https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=374

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2016/10/why-everyone-is-talking-about-baseload-power.html

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp0809/09rp09

[Fife-Hibee]

Without them , there is currently not enough sources of energy supply to meet the demand...so until that is solved, we need a mixed economy of energy production in the UK....

Scotland gets over 2/3rds of it's energy from renewables and it's been growing. Nuclear power plants should be reducing in number, not growing.

[bigwheel]

Scotland gets over 2/3rds of it's energy from renewables and it's been growing. Nuclear power plants should be reducing in number, not growing.

Well as 7 out of the 8 we have will be shut by the end of the 20s. That shouldn’t be too much of a challenge

[cabbageandribs1875]

theresa may will only resign when she is sure her successor has 'confidence of the commons' No 10 says


is she trying to stretch it out to get an extra pension contribution or whit :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

theresa may will only resign when she is sure her successor has 'confidence of the commons' No 10 says


is she trying to stretch it out to get an extra pension contribution or whit :greengrin

That could take longer than sorting out a Brexit deal. :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

From the guy who didn't realise Dover was that important for international trade. What's next? Civil war anyone?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/suspending-uk-parliament-to-force-through-brexit-amounts-to-a-coup-raab-warned-929155.html

[JeMeSouviens]

Proceedings against BoJo dropped. Basically his defence was he did his lying in his roles as part of the Leave campaign, not as part of his duties in public office, so misconduct in public office doesn't apply.

tbh, I think that's fair enough even though he's a contemptible *****bag. I think the court publicity would've been counterproductive anyway.

[Future17]

Proceedings against BoJo dropped. Basically his defence was he did his lying in his roles as part of the Leave campaign, not as part of his duties in public office, so misconduct in public office doesn't apply.

tbh, I think that's fair enough even though he's a contemptible *****bag. I think the court publicity would've been counterproductive anyway.

Hard to argue with that.

[Hibrandenburg]

Proceedings against BoJo dropped. Basically his defence was he did his lying in his roles as part of the Leave campaign, not as part of his duties in public office, so misconduct in public office doesn't apply.

tbh, I think that's fair enough even though he's a contemptible *****bag. I think the court publicity would've been counterproductive anyway.

Kind of condones the idea that you can promise the moon during a political campaign without having to deliver it or it to have any basis on fact. Pretty depressing really.

[James310]

Kind of condones the idea that you can promise the moon during a political campaign without having to deliver it or it to have any basis on fact. Pretty depressing really.

Agreed, but all parties do it and have done it for years. It's not a new thing.

[ronaldo7]

Dominic Grieve loses a motion of confidence of his local constituency branch.

The Tories have swung further to the right again, they'll be standing on Nigels toes soon

Looks like he has to re apply to the constituency party for the next GE

[Smartie]

Kind of condones the idea that you can promise the moon during a political campaign without having to deliver it or it to have any basis on fact. Pretty depressing really.

The fact that it got this far will have given Boris a few sleepless nights, and if the publicity and the fact that it got this far plants a seed of doubt in the minds of politicians before they come out with some of their more outrageous promises, then it has been worth it.

As much as I don't like Boris, and as much as I loathed the bus stunt, I'm not sure if a criminal conviction was really in anyone's interests at the end of the day.

[H18 SFR]

The radio said there that four of the Tory leader candidates have admitted abusing Class A drugs. What the...

[Future17]

The radio said there that four of the Tory leader candidates have admitted abusing Class A drugs. What the...

"We did what we had to do to survive May's leadership..."

[SHODAN]

The radio said there that four of the Tory leader candidates have admitted abusing Class A drugs. What the...

**** Tories, but who really cares?

[Hibrandenburg]

The fact that it got this far will have given Boris a few sleepless nights, and if the publicity and the fact that it got this far plants a seed of doubt in the minds of politicians before they come out with some of their more outrageous promises, then it has been worth it.

As much as I don't like Boris, and as much as I loathed the bus stunt, I'm not sure if a criminal conviction was really in anyone's interests at the end of the day.

I doubt it Smartie, if anything Boris will feel emboldened that his armoured suit hasn't even got a scratch on it. The more he gets away with, the more untouchable he'll feel.

[Bostonhibby]

The radio said there that four of the Tory leader candidates have admitted abusing Class A drugs. What the...Fair do's, a bit of reluctant honesty dragged out of four of them, we now know hallucinogenics might have something to do with their behaviour over the last few decades.

But how do we account for the antics of the rest of them?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

The radio said there that four of the Tory leader candidates have admitted abusing Class A drugs. What the...

I saw that in relation to Michael Gove. My initial reaction was cynical and wondered if it was a calculated PR stunt where they thought the benefits of appearing relatable and “real” would outweigh any fallout.

[Andy Bee]

Had to chuckle when listening to Any Questions last night, when Max Hastings, a former colleague of BJ at The Telegraph, was asked his opinion on BJ as a leader...."BJ is one of the most brilliant journalists and entertainers I've ever known but Boris's tragedy is that he thinks he's Winston Churchill but in reality he's Steve Cougan"

[Pretty Boy]

**** Tories, but who really cares?

That's where I am. I daresay some of the small and big C Tories may find it shocking but we live in a time when a lot of the electorate in their 20s through their 60s have probably dabbled with drugs at some point in their life.

I'm more offended by Gove in general than by the fact he had a few lines of ching a couple of decades ago.

[JeMeSouviens]

That's where I am. I daresay some of the small and big C Tories may find it shocking but we live in a time when a lot of the electorate in their 20s through their 60s have probably dabbled with drugs at some point in their life.

I'm more offended by Gove in general than by the fact he had a few lines of ching a couple of decades ago.

It’s not the drug use that’s a problem. It’s the typical hypocritical pish about regretting it. All he regrets is that it’s about to come out in someone’s book.

Total ****.

[Tornadoes70]

It’s not the drug use that’s a problem. It’s the typical hypocritical pish about regretting it. All he regrets is that it’s about to come out in someone’s book.

Total ****.

Why didn't you answer my posts asking you to inform the Scots folk of whats occurring at Spanish Embassy level and Rockall both involving Scottish snp politics?

The good Scots folk deserve to hear after all you'e on here incessantly posting against anyone and any other party that argues against separatism/independence. We the good Scots folk deserve answers or do you ignore anything other than brigadoon 'good news' snp dogmatism?

Lets hear you're take on the Spanish Ambassador being sacked for mentioning Scottish separatism/independence and the Rockall Snp government v Irish government spat over fishing rights?

Come on Je me Souviens?

Let's tell the good Scots folk the current situation!

[Tornadoes70]

Come on Je me souviens?

At least the Modfather tries to argue his best despite limited arguments that at least demonstrates a fighting scots attitude. You don't show that which tells me you're just a trouble maker with no real hard interest in what happens here in Scotland. If I'm right you'd be better doing one.

Mon the Scots.

[Tornadoes70]

Nah. Its no just tories that are sleekit lying *******s. Its brigadoons like je me soveins or whatever his/her user name is.

I've every respect for those who show the fighting Scots spirit despite how way wrongful it may be because I myself either wrongly or rightfully have inherited it.

I'm proud Scots but also recognise just how much we here in the UK should display it against other than.

Mon the Scots and UK

[lapsedhibee]

That Michael Gove seemed like a nice young man on The Andrew Marr Show today. I don't think he told any lies at all. Preferable to Bojo or Fauxrage for PM.

Mutterings in the papers about Labour getting rid of Watson and Starmer from the shadow front bench. Ffs.

[Sylar]

Gove introduced legislation when he was Education secretary that banned teachers being caught using Class A drugs from returning to their jobs.

So you can't return to a classroom to teach, but you can still expect apparently to run the country?

That's where this news story bothers me - not the fact that he's taken drugs - I couldn't care less about that. It's the hypocrisy of his actions.

I find him as unpalatable as Johnson - some of his proposals during his time as education secretary were horrific (he was behind the proposal to remove non-UK authors from the English curriculum) and he's been a ****ing hopeless environment secretary.

[wpj]

I wonder why he fessed up? The story must have been about to be sensationally splashed over the papers so this is his attempt at damage limitation. Watch people coming out of the woodwork with Gove's chinged up shenanigans. Cant wait.

[marinello59]

I wonder why he fessed up? The story must have been about to be sensationally splashed over the papers so this is his attempt at damage limitation. Watch people coming out of the woodwork with Gove's chinged up shenanigans. Cant wait.

There’s s book coming out about the hypocritical tosser, it was coming out anyway.

[stokesmessiah]

On QT the other night, they said the average age of the Tory party membership was 57, that cant be right can it??

[marinello59]

On QT the other night, they said the average age of the Tory party membership was 57, that cant be right can it??

I wouldn’t doubt it.

[stokesmessiah]

I wouldn’t doubt it.

That's frightening.

[stokesmessiah]

I see Ruth the mooth has nailed her flag to Javid.

[Mon Dieu4]

On QT the other night, they said the average age of the Tory party membership was 57, that cant be right can it??

I read it somewhere the other day, found it on the BBC

According to the ERSC the figures are

Over 66 is 38%
56 to 65 is 18%
46 to 55 is 16%
36 to 45 is 11%
26 to 35 is 10%
18 to 25 7%

[marinello59]

That's frightening.

It certainly is. That narrow section of the population is going to choose our next PM.

[lapsedhibee]

Gove introduced legislation when he was Education secretary that banned teachers being caught using Class A drugs from returning to their jobs.

So you can't return to a classroom to teach, but you can still expect apparently to run the country?

Not sure he was an MP when he committed the crimes. Need people from all walks of life (including criminals), not just career politicians, to represent us.



It certainly is. That narrow section of the population is going to choose our next PM.

Agree it's a small number who will be deciding the next PM (though not as small as gave us the last one), but is their average age any or much different from the average age of actual voters (as opposed to the electorate) in a GE? :dunno:

[Sylar]

Not sure he was an MP when he committed the crimes. Need people from all walks of life (including criminals), not just career politicians, to represent us.


Agree it's a small number who will be deciding the next PM (though not as small as gave us the last one), but is their average age any or much different from the average age of actual voters (as opposed to the electorate) in a GE? :dunno:

He wasn’t an MP then, but that’s not my point. He expects clemency for his error in judgement, but introduced policy later in life to make that impossible for others who either make a choice or “err” with drugs.

[lapsedhibee]

He wasn’t an MP then, but that’s not my point. He expects clemency for his error in judgement, but introduced policy later in life to make that impossible for others who either make a choice or “err” with drugs.

Given that one of the ****s currently running for PM is going to end up Prime ****, which of them would you prefer?

[wpj]

He wasn’t an MP then, but that’s not my point. He expects clemency for his error in judgement, but introduced policy later in life to make that impossible for others who either make a choice or “err” with drugs.

This is my issue with him. Apparently around the time he was hoovering ching he wrote a newspaper article condemning middle class drug users, then as you point out made laws that have destroyed many peoples lives. This should destroy his or at least his political career

[wpj]

There’s s book coming out about the hypocritical tosser, it was coming out anyway.

Thanks for clarifying, he would never have mentioned it because he was genuinely remorseful cos he's a self serving prick.

[lapsedhibee]

I see Ruth the mooth has nailed her flag to Javid.

On the basis that he won't allow IndyRef2, or for some other hitherto hidden quality of his? :dunno:

[heretoday]

I find it hard to believe that during the 80s and 90s Messrs Cameron and Johnson and friends didn't take a few drugs along with trashing restaurants and assaulting pigs.

[Sylar]

Given that one of the ****s currently running for PM is going to end up Prime ****, which of them would you prefer?

Why does my opinion matter worth a jot here? Or why is it relevant to my thoughts on Gove?

Neither of the candidates I'd "like" to end up being PM are likely to get enough votes to get them through the first round anyway, so it's irrelevant.

[lapsedhibee]

Why does my opinion matter worth a jot here? Or why is it relevant to my thoughts on Gove?

Neither of the candidates I'd "like" to end up being PM are likely to get enough votes to get them through the first round anyway, so it's irrelevant.

Was a simple question, nothing more, nothing less.

[Sylar]

Was a simple question, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm used to being treated as "politically hostile" on here, so pardon my suspicion.

None of the "big names" thrill me as future PM, but Johnson/Gove please me the least.

I wouldn't object to Rory Stewart or Sam Gyimah (he did a lot of good as Universities' minister), but neither will get through the first round of voting.

[stokesmessiah]

On the basis that he won't allow IndyRef2, or for some other hitherto hidden quality of his? :dunno:

Right enough, she was banging on about how he will protect the union!

[Bangkok Hibby]

I'm used to being treated as "politically hostile" on here, so pardon my suspicion.

None of the "big names" thrill me as future PM, but Johnson/Gove please me the least.



I wouldn't object to Rory Stewart or Sam Gyimah (he did a lot of good as Universities' minister), but neither will get through the first round of voting.

Rory Stewart isnt the huge outsider many believe. Granted he won't win though....he's too honest.

[cabbageandribs1875]

hancock on just now telling all how much he loves the NHS, he probably won't mention the 32k he has received from the chairman of a think-tank that wants to abolish the NHS :hmmm:


or maybe he will, seeing as all the candidates are going through a 'truth' stage :)




cough

[JeMeSouviens]

Come on Je me souviens?

At least the Modfather tries to argue his best despite limited arguments that at least demonstrates a fighting scots attitude. You don't show that which tells me you're just a trouble maker with no real hard interest in what happens here in Scotland. If I'm right you'd be better doing one.

Mon the Scots.

Sorry, I have you on ignore.

Anyway, the Spanish government position on Scotland is that it's an internal matter for the UK and if Scotland becomes independent with recognition from the rUK government, then that's fine by them. Josep Borrell, the PSOE foreign minister, whose department fired this consul bloke, is on record saying as much.

On Rockall, it's been a disputed territory between the UK, Iceland and Ireland for decades. The Scottish government is just asserting the UK position. Presumably post-Indy we'd make the same claim.

Anything else?

[cabbageandribs1875]

candidates need to secure support from eight MP's by 5pm tonight or they will be removed from the race

[SHODAN]

candidates need to secure support from eight MP's by 5pm tonight or they will be removed from the race

That would leave Gove, Hancock, Hunt, Javid, Johnson & Raab as things stand.

Deary me.

[Pretty Boy]

I find it hard to believe that during the 80s and 90s Messrs Cameron and Johnson and friends didn't take a few drugs along with trashing restaurants and assaulting pigs.

I think Johnson has admitted drug use, including cocaine, in the past. There's certainly footage from a HIGNFY episode he was presenting in which he references it.

[NYHibby]

Rory Stewart isnt the huge outsider many believe. Granted he won't win though....he's too honest.

I have a bit of inside knowledge on this. Compared to other people who have served as ministers over the past nine years, Stewart is an outsider in Tory Whitehall circles. He is unpopular with many of his peers. His first appointment to be the junior Defra water minister and later as the prisons minister were intended to kill his ministerial career.

But as a Eton and Oxford educated Secretary of State, of course he is a insider compared to the average person

[cabbageandribs1875]

That would leave Gove, Hancock, Hunt, Javid, Johnson & Raab as things stand.

Deary me.


i think andrea leadsom might get through it's a knockout stage 1

[Peevemor]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=912868399050616&id=346381979032597

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/20a20f16a91f9b6ab675cc7ea9118de3.jpg
Bet Ruth says nowt.


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[Ozyhibby]

I think Johnson has admitted drug use, including cocaine, in the past. There's certainly footage from a HIGNFY episode he was presenting in which he references it.

He’s Teflon though. He’s like Trump, nothing seems to put off his core support down south.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/boris-johnson-a-bigger-threat-to-the-union-than-the-snp-1-4944574/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/boris-johnson-a-bigger-threat-to-the-union-than-the-snp-1-4944574/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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In the current political climate it will win him many votes in England. He's not as daft as he looks.

[JeMeSouviens]

In the current political climate it will win him many votes in England. He's not as daft as he looks.

The big winners of this policy are rich, English pensioners. Coincidentally (I'm sure) the exact demographic of the largest part of the Tory party membership he wants to elect him. :rolleyes:

[Smartie]

He’s Teflon though. He’s like Trump, nothing seems to put off his core support down south.


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It will be interesting to see what effect sticking the knife into his core support up here will have though.

[JeMeSouviens]

10 got enough support to stand:

• Michael Gove
• Matt Hancock
• Mark Harper
• Jeremy Hunt
• Sajid Javid
• Boris Johnson
• Andrea Leadsom
• Esther McVey
• Dominic Raab
• Rory Stewart

First round of MP votes on Thursday.

[cabbageandribs1875]

7/10..Boris Johnson
4/1... jeremy hunt
9/1....Andrea Leadsom
16/1..Gove
20/1...sajid javid
25/1.. Dominic Raab
33/1.. Rory Stewart
40/1...jeremy corbyn...gies a break
66/1...Farage
100/1..matthew hancock
125/1..David Liddington
150/1..philip hammond
150/1..mark harper
200/1..Esther Mcvey....nae chance
200/1..jo swinson...stop it

[ronaldo7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/20a20f16a91f9b6ab675cc7ea9118de3.jpg
Bet Ruth says nowt.


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This'll be the union dividend they keep talking about.

Ingsh will be lapping it up using his broad shoulders to doff cap and pay up.

[lapsedhibee]

I wouldn't object to Rory Stewart or Sam Gyimah (he did a lot of good as Universities' minister), but neither will get through the first round of voting.

Tory leadership contests have a tradition of not going according to plan, so there's a smidgeon of hope that Stewart might get further than expected ...

[stokesmessiah]

Tory leadership contests have a tradition of not going according to plan, so there's a smidgeon of hope that Stewart might get further than expected ...

Can only see Boris getting it. Newsnight says he has 64 voted compared to Gove and ****** who both have 34. If he goes to the last two the wider party will vote him in no bother.

[lapsedhibee]

Can only see Boris getting it. Newsnight says he has 64 voted compared to Gove and ****** who both have 34. If he goes to the last two the wider party will vote him in no bother.

BoJoke may be nobody's second choice, though, and when others drop out their supporters might not at all split in his favour. There's 313 Tory MPs, so 64 isn't a scary number.

Mon the minnows!

[SHODAN]

I can see the Tory MPs forcing Boris out and putting Gove & Hunt to the members.

[Ozyhibby]

BoJoke may be nobody's second choice, though, and when others drop out their supporters might not at all split in his favour. There's 313 Tory MPs, so 64 isn't a scary number.

Mon the minnows!

Problem is that backers of Raab, McVey etc are going to switch to Boris when they get knocked out.


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[lapsedhibee]

I can see the Tory MPs forcing Boris out and putting Gove & Hunt to the members.

What, and frustrate the will of the party? Wouldn't that be a betrayal of democracy etc but also, more importantly, ******* hilarious? I would quite literally laugh my knee off.

[Mibbes Aye]

I can see the Tory MPs forcing Boris out and putting Gove & Hunt to the members.


Problem is that backers of Raab, McVey etc are going to switch to Boris when they get knocked out.


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What, and frustrate the will of the party? Wouldn't that be a betrayal of democracy etc but also, more importantly, ******* hilarious? I would quite literally laugh my knee off.

There was an interesting article a couple of weeks or so ago, in the Guardian or the Telegraph, probably the latter (sorry, can’t recall) which challenged the orthodoxy and argued that the Tory leadership race could end up with a final two who were centrists, relatively speaking. By centrists they meant the likes of Hunt, which I found challenging as a start :greengrin

Part of the argument was that while Boris has a healthy lead amongst Tory party members, there is a residual fear that he is too divisive or reckless to command the all-important majority, come the GE. While the shires lap up his rhetoric, as the final vote grows closer the nervousness increases about whether he will blow it later on, Boris-style, and deny the Conservatives what they perceive as their natural place in government.

This feeds into what local Conservative Associations tell their MPs and emboldens the MPs to back alternatives.

I’m not fully convinced - he genuinely is very popular amongst the party membership and if he makes it to the final two it would be a coronation I guess. By the same token, I could easily imagine Stewart having a good run before running out of votes, then switching his caucus to Matt Hancock perhaps, with us ending up with a Hancock-Hunt play-off.

I think a lot depends on how Gove and Hunt do. As the field is whittled down, a lot of votes will be reallocated. I suspect Hunt is the more likely to garner these than Gove but the latter didn’t hurt himself by taking the fight to Boris today. Gove v Hunt is definitely in play.

For those of us who are interested in politics for politics’ sake, it is fascinating. Unfortunately it is scary that this exercise has the potential for such damaging consequences.

[Bostonhibby]

What scares me is very few of us will have a say in who our next undemocratically elected minority leader will be.

Instead it's being left to folk who are probably more at home judging the most interesting shaped vegetable contest at the village fete.

They probably think all the candidates are young whippersnappers and they'd like someone more representative of their group, Anthony Eden or Harold Macmillan would probably win hands down if someone managed to sneak their name onto the ballot papers, Fluffy the cat would have a chance on the same basis.

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[Ozyhibby]

There was an interesting article a couple of weeks or so ago, in the Guardian or the Telegraph, probably the latter (sorry, can’t recall) which challenged the orthodoxy and argued that the Tory leadership race could end up with a final two who were centrists, relatively speaking. By centrists they meant the likes of Hunt, which I found challenging as a start :greengrin

Part of the argument was that while Boris has a healthy lead amongst Tory party members, there is a residual fear that he is too divisive or reckless to command the all-important majority, come the GE. While the shires lap up his rhetoric, as the final vote grows closer the nervousness increases about whether he will blow it later on, Boris-style, and deny the Conservatives what they perceive as their natural place in government.

This feeds into what local Conservative Associations tell their MPs and emboldens the MPs to back alternatives.

I’m not fully convinced - he genuinely is very popular amongst the party membership and if he makes it to the final two it would be a coronation I guess. By the same token, I could easily imagine Stewart having a good run before running out of votes, then switching his caucus to Matt Hancock perhaps, with us ending up with a Hancock-Hunt play-off.

I think a lot depends on how Gove and Hunt do. As the field is whittled down, a lot of votes will be reallocated. I suspect Hunt is the more likely to garner these than Gove but the latter didn’t hurt himself by taking the fight to Boris today. Gove v Hunt is definitely in play.

For those of us who are interested in politics for politics’ sake, it is fascinating. Unfortunately it is scary that this exercise has the potential for such damaging consequences.

You would need 2/3 of Tory mp’s to vote for those two in an even split to beat Boris. I can’t see it happening unless Boris does something stupid. And he appears to have enough self awareness to know that’s possible so he is staying away from campaigning as much as possible.


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[lapsedhibee]

You would need 2/3 of Tory mp’s to vote for those two in an even split to beat Boris. I can’t see it happening unless Boris does something stupid. And he appears to have enough self awareness to know that’s possible so he is staying away from campaigning as much as possible.

Or some past stupidity gets a relentless spotlight put on it. Is that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe still in jail in Iran for spying?

[Bostonhibby]

Or some past stupidity gets a relentless spotlight put on it. Is that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe still in jail in Iran for spying?https://www.change.org/p/free-nazanin-ratcliffe/u/24675918?cs_tk=AlPTjqXyZFSbMdvgAF0AAXicyyvNyQEABF8 BvDRJsclRXDyOEe_mX8tgc10%3D&utm_campaign=ab80da8fd41a421f9c8d052121c8600e&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_update&utm_term=cs

Still there, Boris has put some clear blue water between himself and that indiscretion by the looks of it.

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[stokesmessiah]

There was an interesting article a couple of weeks or so ago, in the Guardian or the Telegraph, probably the latter (sorry, can’t recall) which challenged the orthodoxy and argued that the Tory leadership race could end up with a final two who were centrists, relatively speaking. By centrists they meant the likes of Hunt, which I found challenging as a start :greengrin

Part of the argument was that while Boris has a healthy lead amongst Tory party members, there is a residual fear that he is too divisive or reckless to command the all-important majority, come the GE. While the shires lap up his rhetoric, as the final vote grows closer the nervousness increases about whether he will blow it later on, Boris-style, and deny the Conservatives what they perceive as their natural place in government.

This feeds into what local Conservative Associations tell their MPs and emboldens the MPs to back alternatives.

I’m not fully convinced - he genuinely is very popular amongst the party membership and if he makes it to the final two it would be a coronation I guess. By the same token, I could easily imagine Stewart having a good run before running out of votes, then switching his caucus to Matt Hancock perhaps, with us ending up with a Hancock-Hunt play-off.

I think a lot depends on how Gove and Hunt do. As the field is whittled down, a lot of votes will be reallocated. I suspect Hunt is the more likely to garner these than Gove but the latter didn’t hurt himself by taking the fight to Boris today. Gove v Hunt is definitely in play.

For those of us who are interested in politics for politics’ sake, it is fascinating. Unfortunately it is scary that this exercise has the potential for such damaging consequences.

I can't see the tories putting Hunt in. He is just such an unpopular character after the "job" he done with the NHS. I don't think he is electable in a GE.

[Fife-Hibee]

Just how depressing do things have to get until enough people in Scotland have had enough?

[stokesmessiah]

Just how depressing do things have to get until enough people in Scotland have had enough?

I guess the next few months will tell us where we are at ?