Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[James310]

What’s the SNPs path got to do with anything? What is it with unionists and this idea that an independent Scotland somehow equates to an SNP Scotland? An independent Scotland may well reject the SNP vision. Independence gives us the power to do that.

It’s terrifying just how many people in Scotland have bought into the “independence = SNP = bad” narrative in the British MSM.

Try actually thinking for a change.

Because that's the policy and path that is in front of us today, I don't see an alternative.

It's legitimate to question what is in front of you, not a policy that does not exist.

[Fife-Hibee]

Because that's the policy and path that is in front of us today, I don't see an alternative.

It's legitimate to question what is in front of you, not a policy that does not exist.

Of course you don’t see an alternative. Parties that don’t openly support independence are hardly going to go public about any plans they may have in the event that it does happen. But I’d hazard a bet that even the tories in Scotland have some plan tucked away, just incase. They just aren’t going to mention them right now as it doesn’t suit their narrative that an independent Scotland is somehow economically impossible.

[James310]

Of course you don’t see an alternative. Parties that don’t openly support independence are hardly going to go public about any plans they may have in the event that it does happen. But I’d hazard a bet that even the tories in Scotland have some plan tucked away, just incase. They just aren’t going to mention them right now as it doesn’t suit their narrative that an independent Scotland is somehow economically impossible.

So you have a go at me for not considering the alternative plans, the ones that you tell me nobody has seen. Not sure you thought that one through.

[Fife-Hibee]

So you have a go at me for not considering the alternative plans, the ones that you tell me nobody has seen. Not sure you thought that one through.

You’re missing the point entirely. Any alternative plans are being hushed up by the parties that hold them. It’s not that there aren’t alternative plans, they just want people like you to believe that there aren’t any alternatives and you’re falling for it, just as they intended.

[James310]

You’re missing the point entirely. Any alternative plans are being hushed up by the parties that hold them. It’s not that there aren’t alternative plans, they just want people like you to believe that there aren’t any alternatives and you’re falling for it, just as they intended.

Do you have proof of these plans being hushed up?

[ronaldo7]

Ok, I was wrong in that one aspect. But Slovakias path is nothing like the path Scotland has chosen. I have laid out the path the SNP have chosen, let's focus on that.

Now can you answer the questions? No emojis allowed.

We have some people's assemblies coming up, I wouldn't want to prejudice the ideas and hope that'll come from that. I'll leave you to your own devices, of divided and conquer which you've been schooled at, and see the Indy movement prosper, whilst the union withers on the vine.

Have a Guid day.

[James310]

We have some people's assemblies coming up, I wouldn't want to prejudice the ideas and hope that'll come from that. I'll leave you to your own devices, of divided and conquer which you've been schooled at, and see the Indy movement prosper, whilst the union withers on the vine.

Have a Guid day.

As expected, minus the emojis.

Have a good day.

[Fife-Hibee]

Do you have proof of these plans being hushed up?

If I had proof, don’t you think I’d be sharing those plans with everyone? There’s obviously not going to be any proof until after independence is achieved when the parties start sticking their economic policies on the table.

You only have to apply common sense though. It would be absolutely mental for them not to have plans of their own in the very likely event of independence in the near future.

[Sylar]

When you give me the answer of how, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic had nothing to do with each other politically, which you've said, we can maybe move on. Considering they shared an area of land with each other for some time, I'd be interested how they could have avoided each other for so long.

The Velvet divorce is one you should read up on. It will eventually take you to an actual country being set up, with a currency in a number of weeks.

The trouble is, you don't want to hear of these things which "actually occurred", it doesn't suit your narrative of, it's too hard.

At least you're on the correct thread today. Tories are lying *******s, traces of tory, with a hint of lib Dem.

I'm off to work now, so I'll leave you to your morning read of the daily heil, and torygraph.


We have some people's assemblies coming up, I wouldn't want to prejudice the ideas and hope that'll come from that. I'll leave you to your own devices, of divided and conquer which you've been schooled at, and see the Indy movement prosper, whilst the union withers on the vine.

Have a Guid day.

Winning hearts and minds I see, Ron? :na na:

[The Modfather]

The facts are that chapter 17 of the Maastricht treaty which deals with monetary policy state any country wanting to join the EU must have a fully independently run central bank.

The facts are while we are Sterlingised we will not have a central bank. So we will not be joining the EU while we have Sterling. So for however long we use Sterling we will not be joining the EU, that is clear.


So the further facts are that to get our own currency which requires a central bank we need to pass the following 6 tests. This is SNP policy.

1) Fiscal sustainability: Has the Scottish Government sustainably secured its fiscal policy objectives and sufficiently strong and credible fiscal position, in relation to budget deficit and overall debt level?

2) Central Bank credibility and stability of debt issuance: Has the Scottish Central Bank and Government framework established sufficient international and market credibility evidenced by the price and the stability of the price of its debt issuance?

3) Financial requirements of Scottish residents and businesses: Would a separate currency meet the on-going needs of Scottish residents and businesses for stability and continuity of their financial arrangements and command wide support?

4) Sufficiency of foreign exchange and financial reserves: Does Scotland have sufficient reserves to allow currency management?

5) Fit to trade and investment patterns: Would the new arrangement better reflect Scotland’s new and developing trading or investment patterns?

6) Correlation of economic and trade cycle: Is the economic cycle in Scotland significantly out of phase with that of the rest of the UK, or at least as well correlated with the cycles of other trading and investment partners, thus making an independent monetary policy feasible and desirable?


Now the question was how long will it take Scotland to join the EU, many on here seem to think it will be a few years and relatively easy.

On what basis is that assumption founded when you look at the facts? You can quote Slovakia or whatever but the facts are above, that is the path that the SNP have chosen. So let's stick to that path, not the path that other countries have taken as the circumstances are different.

So based on the facts above, my opinion is Scotland will be out the EU for a long time. Why? Because we will have Sterling for an undetermined period of time, and the 6 tests are almost impossible to meet over the short to medium term. We are talking long term here, not within a few years.

Now I have taken the time to fully explain my reasons, does anyone want to tell me in the same details why it's wrong? Or does it all happen behind the scenes and computers and stuff will sort it out.

None of us know what the currency will be in an independent Scotland. You have focussed solely on us keeping the pound and the EU pitfalls of that. Fair enough, can you also give us the same detailed analysis for each currency option and the pros and cons of that currency in relation to joining the EU?

You’ve been given a recent example of Slovakia leaving a union and setting up their own currency in a couple of months. You counter that by saying Scotland’s example is somehow different, it’s only different because it doesn’t suit your narrative. You’ve also been given the example of Finland joining the EU. These are examples of setting up currencies, and also joining the EU, how well do they relate to Scotland? I don’t know as I don’t know what currency we will choose or even who will be in power in an independent Scotland. You choose to focus’s on keeping the pound as it presents the most negative scope for you to latch onto, I never hear you talk about any other scenarios.

That’s why I said the real debate is the reasons to stay in the union v becoming independent, not (some would say deliberately) get bogged in the detail of specific scenarios when there are lots of different scenarios that could happen. Doing that bores me into submission and I’m likely to give up reading the “debate”. Talk about the pros of staying in the union and why that’s the best path is something I’d be more interested in reading and a persuasive argument that may convince me. That goes for Fife Hibee too and simply making stuff up like the majority of no voters being anti Scotland racists to suit his agenda.

[James310]

None of us know what the currency will be in an independent Scotland. You have focussed solely on us keeping the pound and the EU pitfalls of that. Fair enough, can you also give us the same detailed analysis for each currency option and the pros and cons of that currency in relation to joining the EU?

You’ve been given a recent example of Slovakia leaving a union and setting up their own currency in a couple of months. You counter that by saying Scotland’s example is somehow different, it’s only different because it doesn’t suit your narrative. You’ve also been given the example of Finland joining the EU. These are examples of setting up currencies, and also joining the EU, how well do they relate to Scotland? I don’t know as I don’t know what currency we will choose or even who will be in power in an independent Scotland. You choose to focus’s on keeping the pound as it presents the most negative scope for you to latch onto, I never hear you talk about any other scenarios.

That’s why I said the real debate is the reasons to stay in the union v becoming independent, not (some would say deliberately) get bogged in the detail of specific scenarios when there are lots of different scenarios that could happen. Doing that bores me into submission and I’m likely to give up reading the “debate”. Talk about the pros of staying in the union and why that’s the best path is something I’d be more interested in reading and a persuasive argument that may convince me. That goes for Fife Hibee too and simply making stuff up like the majority of no voters being anti Scotland racists to suit his agenda.

I talk about the scenario that is the current policy of the Scottish Government, that's the path they want to follow. The other countries chose a different path, I will focus on the path that is presented in the Sustainable Growth Commission report as that is now policy and the path we will take if there ever is a Yes vote.

It's not my job to sell other options, I am not the one proposing significant changes. It's my 'job' to oppose what is being suggested with reasons why.

[Hibrandenburg]

You can put your fingers in your ears and pretend it will all be fine if you like, your just like Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab...it will be fine, we are Scotland so it will all be fine. Don't worry about the details, it will all be fine.

Do you want to take a stab at telling us how long we will be sterlingised, and then how long the 6 tests will take? Go on, give it a go.

There is no timeline regarding how long Scotland would be sterlingised as you put it. Scotland uses Sterling at present but intends to move to it's own currency when and IF the time is right. That's what the six tests guidelines are about and they're just that, guidelines. I personally think it's dexterous to have a roadmap for what currency Scotland MIGHT use after independence. The tests are a sensible guideline for making the transition but are not set in stone like you seem to believe and rightly so. Economics is by it's nature dynamic and any sensible economic plan needs to remain flexible.

[Hibrandenburg]

The only people who say that are people like you essentially.

You want to create this false narrative that no one else is even suggesting.

I guess trying to create resentment by using the language you do makes up for a vacuum of any rational arguments to make your case.

The narrative in the last Indy Ref was as clear as day. There was a constant bombardment telling us we would crash and burn if we voted yes. The narrative was one of how dependant we are on the UK because we couldn't cut it alone. Of course there were also conciliatory voices but they were few and far between, especially within the no campaign within Scotland itself, some even going as far as saying "we're not genetically programmed to make political decisions". I know you don't like that statement but it sums up the no campaign back then quite nicely.

[ronaldo7]

Winning hearts and minds I see, Ron? :na na:

I've put, John, James, and Janet down to a hard, No. He's not actually worth the time. Lots more pensioners oot there to convince.

Maybe when they see how they're treated with pensions and TV licences... Well you never know eh. 😏

[Hibrandenburg]

”..The teat of Westminster”, really? That’s just silly.

Not if you take it in the satirical context I meant it. I'm tired of hearing how we Scots (and I am Scottish no matter what you might think) are "subsidy junkies".

[Hibrandenburg]

Also not sure whether to question what ‘our best interest’ means when I actually live in Scotland and you don’t :confused:. What claim have you to use the word “Our”?

Especially when a clear majority rejected the referendum result you wanted, admittedly much to your chagrin and wrath in the aftermath.

This remark disappoints me MA, you're better than that. I was born in Scotland, grew up there, I'm influenced by the people, history, culture and education I received there as well as having family, friends and financial and social connections there. I also have the right as an EU citizen to cast my vote there in EU elections. To somehow suggest I fail some kind of reverse "Norman Tebbit" nationality test is beneath you. You can take the laddie out of Scotland.........

Would you also promote the idea that foreign citizens living in the UK should cut ties with their heritage or does it only apply to Scots living abroad?

[Ozyhibby]

Same unionist voices on every thread with the same arguments. [emoji849]
Tory leadership race is more interesting and I’m sure there are other threads for this chat.


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[James310]

There is no timeline regarding how long Scotland would be sterlingised as you put it. Scotland uses Sterling at present but intends to move to it's own currency when and IF the time is right. That's what the six tests guidelines are about and they're just that, guidelines. I personally think it's dexterous to have a roadmap for what currency Scotland MIGHT use after independence. The tests are a sensible guideline for making the transition but are not set in stone like you seem to believe and rightly so. Economics is by it's nature dynamic and any sensible economic plan needs to remain flexible.

So in the context of the question how long will it take Scotland to rejoin the EU you have no answer and no firm timelines. So you agree the assumption 'quickly' that was put forward was without basis and based on nothing at all other than a wild guess.

So next time someone suggests Scotland will quickly join the EU we can see that is not the case at all.

[James310]

Same unionist voices on every thread with the same arguments. [emoji849]
Tory leadership race is more interesting and I’m sure there are other threads for this chat.


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Same nationalists as well, with no answers and nothing to back up their points.

[Hibrandenburg]

So in the context of the question how long will it take Scotland to rejoin the EU you have no answer and no firm timelines. So you agree the assumption 'quickly' that was put forward was without basis and based on nothing at all other than a wild guess.

So next time someone suggests Scotland will quickly join the EU we can see that is not the case at all.

You've already had the currency question explained on numerous occasions, if you don't want to understand then that's your problem. Scotland joining the EU will be a formality, any adjustments that might be needed will be minimal, why should Scotland's integration be impossible when every other member has managed to adjust? Too wee, stupid, poor, dependent..............?

[Ozyhibby]

Same nationalists as well, with no answers and nothing to back up their points.

Maybe you could look for a thread to chat about it or start one yourself?


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[Mr Grieves]

I listen to BBC 5 live at work and there seems to be a constant stream of tory MPs backing BJ in the leadership contest, that are having to defend him under some robust questioning.

Johnny Mercer was ripped earlier about how many kids BJ has (the answer is somewhere between 4 and 7), Liz Truss last week about the racism and homophobia etc, all the while BJ is in hiding. Mental.

[Fife-Hibee]

Same nationalists as well, with no answers and nothing to back up their points.

How about asking questions that can realistically be answered at this stage. Instead of the Scottish Tory tactic of demanding absolute answers right now regarding matters that are clearly too volatile to realistically give absolute answers to?

[SHODAN]

What are they going to do when he becomes PM, just lock him in number 10 and have all his communications come out via a surrogate?

Maybe they should come to the realisation that if a man can't be trusted to keep his mouth shut, he shouldn't be running a country? :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

I listen to BBC 5 live at work and there seems to be a constant stream of tory MPs backing BJ in the leadership contest, that are having to defend him under some robust questioning.

Johnny Mercer was ripped earlier about how many kids BJ has (the answer is somewhere between 4 and 7), Liz Truss last week about the racism and homophobia etc, all the while BJ is in hiding. Mental.

The BBC are giving him a free ride by allowing him to send along surrogates. If he won’t appear himself then they should move on to other candidates.


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[Moulin Yarns]

What are they going to do when he becomes PM, just lock him in number 10 and have all his communications come out via a surrogate?

Maybe they should come to the realisation that if a man can't be trusted to keep his mouth shut, he shouldn't be running a country? :dunno:

That seems to be close to what someone suggested on here. Something about Johnson being chairman in the amount of effect he will have.

[James310]

You've already had the currency question explained on numerous occasions, if you don't want to understand then that's your problem. Scotland joining the EU will be a formality, any adjustments that might be needed will be minimal, why should Scotland's integration be impossible when every other member has managed to adjust? Too wee, stupid, poor, dependent..............?

Explained by who, not you. Full of opinions dressed up as facts, with little substance.

[ronaldo7]

David Mundell, the "Scottish" secretary of state, has decided to support, Michael Gove in his efforts to become PM. The same, Michael Gove, who stole £160million from Scottish farmers.

That's the Tories for you.

[StevieC]

Explained by who, not you. Full of opinions dressed up as facts, with little substance.

Let’s be honest, most posts on here are going to be opinions (including yours).

You are doing exactly what was done at the 2014 referendum. Throw out enough unanswerable questions, and create enough doubt, you’ll sway enough people to run with the status quo.

Currency is not an insurmountable issue. It was used as a major weapon in 2014, and then Mark Carney stated afterwards that the currency wouldn’t have been an issue, it just needed negotiated by the two parties.

Currency is not a game changer here either, just needs negotiation and willingness on both sides (which there is) to make it work.

[Fife-Hibee]

Explained by who, not you. Full of opinions dressed up as facts, with little substance.

That’s exactly what you’re doing. “We can’t do this and we can’t do that”. Yet all you have backing you up are the Tory party and their pals in the British media. While the rest of Europe is saying something totally different.

[Future17]

If I had proof, don’t you think I’d be sharing those plans with everyone? There’s obviously not going to be any proof until after independence is achieved when the parties start sticking their economic policies on the table.

You only have to apply common sense though. It would be absolutely mental for them not to have plans of their own in the very likely event of independence in the near future.

Having had a fair bit of insight into the workings of different parties over the years, I think you're giving them too much credit. And that applies across the board.

[Hibrandenburg]

Of course you don’t see an alternative. Parties that don’t openly support independence are hardly going to go public about any plans they may have in the event that it does happen. But I’d hazard a bet that even the tories in Scotland have some plan tucked away, just incase. They just aren’t going to mention them right now as it doesn’t suit their narrative that an independent Scotland is somehow economically impossible.

I think you're giving UK parties too much credit for thinking ahead. Brexit, I rest my case M'lud.

[Fife-Hibee]

I think you're giving UK parties too much credit for thinking ahead. Brexit, I rest my case M'lud.

You're assuming brexit wasn't the plan all along.

[Hibrandenburg]

You're assuming brexit wasn't the plan all along.

Sorry but we're encroaching on tinfoil hat territory. I'm out.

[Mibbes Aye]

This remark disappoints me MA, you're better than that. I was born in Scotland, grew up there, I'm influenced by the people, history, culture and education I received there as well as having family, friends and financial and social connections there. I also have the right as an EU citizen to cast my vote there in EU elections. To somehow suggest I fail some kind of reverse "Norman Tebbit" nationality test is beneath you. You can take the laddie out of Scotland.........

Would you also promote the idea that foreign citizens living in the UK should cut ties with their heritage or does it only apply to Scots living abroad?

I think you’ve misinterpreted my post, I maybe could have worded it more clearly.

I’m not disputing your connection and commitment to Scotland, Scottishness and being Scottish.

I was querying the use of the word ‘Our’ probably more in connection with me than with you.

I was born in Scotland and live in Scotland so presumably am part that ‘Our’ you refer to but I don’t associate my experience or belief with what you are portraying, and neither did a clear majority of Scots in 2014 I guess.

Language is a powerful thing and can be used to create very strong messages. Couching your beliefs as somehow representative of the whole nation is misleading, when you are really speaking for a disaffected minority. It happens quite a lot and I’m sure everyone does it but it seems to happen a lot more with the Nationalist posters.

[PeeJay]

Here we go again, Scotland has already got all the EU criteria in place.

Scotland has financial services, etc in place, Slovakia had to start from scratch, suggesting that it will be so much easier.

And change your mortgage to a Scottish provider, I've explained that to you already.

Here we go again? How can a "country" that is not yet independent have all the criteria in place "already"? :confused:

[James310]

Here we go again? How can a "country" that is not yet independent have all the criteria in place "already"? :confused:

Already pointed out we don't, like a central bank, but he never listens. It's a lie to say we do.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think you’ve misinterpreted my post, I maybe could have worded it more clearly.

I’m not disputing your connection and commitment to Scotland, Scottishness and being Scottish.

I was querying the use of the word ‘Our’ probably more in connection with me than with you.

I was born in Scotland and live in Scotland so presumably am part that ‘Our’ you refer to but I don’t associate my experience or belief with what you are portraying, and neither did a clear majority of Scots in 2014 I guess.

Language is a powerful thing and can be used to create very strong messages. Couching your beliefs as somehow representative of the whole nation is misleading, when you are really speaking for a disaffected minority. It happens quite a lot and I’m sure everyone does it but it seems to happen a lot more with the Nationalist posters.

Fair enough, what was the question again :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting that the Telegraph go negative on Stewart when he is in last place.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/cb5d290225e09488cc199d4a0d6d9e62.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

Johnson campaign going to lend hunt votes to make sure he is in final two.


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[allmodcons]

I think you’ve misinterpreted my post, I maybe could have worded it more clearly.

I’m not disputing your connection and commitment to Scotland, Scottishness and being Scottish.

I was querying the use of the word ‘Our’ probably more in connection with me than with you.

I was born in Scotland and live in Scotland so presumably am part that ‘Our’ you refer to but I don’t associate my experience or belief with what you are portraying, and neither did a clear majority of Scots in 2014 I guess.

Language is a powerful thing and can be used to create very strong messages. Couching your beliefs as somehow representative of the whole nation is misleading, when you are really speaking for a disaffected minority. It happens quite a lot and I’m sure everyone does it but it seems to happen a lot more with the Nationalist posters.

You really do have a bee in your bonnet about the 'we' and 'our' thing.:brickwall

[Fife-Hibee]

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2019_06/IMG_7778.jpg.6dda81dc13158c5be2c4287156025f6c.jpg

[ronaldo7]

You really do have a bee in your bonnet about the 'we' and 'our' thing.:brickwall

Hibs fans around the world needn't bother supporting "our", club anymore, as they don't live here now. 😂😂

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2019_06/IMG_7778.jpg.6dda81dc13158c5be2c4287156025f6c.jpg

Looks like they need to drop that ‘unionist’ from their name.


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[SHODAN]

None of this matters because Johnson is going to win.

[Ozyhibby]

None of this matters because Johnson is going to win.

Comfortably. Who knows what happens after that though.


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[Fife-Hibee]

Looks like they need to drop that ‘unionist’ from their name.


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The only people in the UK who buy into the unionist tosh are the tories living in Scotland. The reality is, the vast bulk of the party membership are made up of English nationalists with a sense of ownership over Scotland and it's resources.

[marinello59]

Comfortably. Who knows what happens after that though.


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A General election which polls suggest a Boris lead Tory party will win easily. Then he will be free to do what he wants.

[Ozyhibby]

A General election which polls suggest a Boris lead Tory party will win easily. Then he will be free to do what he wants.

If he’s advocating a hard brexit and labour are still failing to lead then I would not rule out the Lib Dem’s gathering up all the remain vote. Will Boris be able to stop the Brexit Party running? It’s a big business now, can’t see them standing down.


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[ronaldo7]

Johnson campaign going to lend hunt votes to make sure he is in final two.


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They can't even do an internal leadership election without cheating.

That's Tories for you.

[Benny Brazil]

Is it wrong that I am warming to Rory Stewart - a down to earth Posh boy if that's even possible 😁

[Mr Grieves]

Is it wrong that I am warming to Rory Stewart - a down to earth Psoh boy if that's even possible 😁

Fair play to him, he's done well in the leadership contest. I don't think many tories would've known who he was a few weeks ago.

Meanwhile, a few of Ruth Davidson's MPs backing BJ :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48675043

[Fife-Hibee]

Fair play to him, he's done well in the leadership contest. I don't think many tories would've known who he was a few weeks ago.

Meanwhile, a few of Ruth Davidson's MPs backing BJ :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48675043

Nope. But plenty of people at MI5 did.

Also, not surprised that Boris is being backed by the tory part-time linesman and the scrotum fondler.

[Smartie]

Is it wrong that I am warming to Rory Stewart - a down to earth Posh boy if that's even possible 😁

He's head and shoulders above all of the rest of them.

At a very tough time for the country, it would do no harm to have a leader that even non-Tories could get behind and relate to.

That's why he won't get it. We'll get the most offensive, obnoxious option - Boris - who will alienate millions but serve those he is there to serve.

[Ozyhibby]

He's head and shoulders above all of the rest of them.

At a very tough time for the country, it would do no harm to have a leader that even non-Tories could get behind and relate to.

That's why he won't get it. We'll get the most offensive, obnoxious option - Boris - who will alienate millions but serve those he is there to serve.

He is by far the most likeable but he still won’t win. Johnson as PM going for a hard brexit makes independence more probable though so every cloud and all that.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Fair play to him, he's done well in the leadership contest. I don't think many tories would've known who he was a few weeks ago.

Meanwhile, a few of Ruth Davidson's MPs backing BJ :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48675043

When did Ruth Davidson become leader of the Conservatives? She only leads a bunch of MSPs.

[marinello59]

If he’s advocating a hard brexit and labour are still failing to lead then I would not rule out the Lib Dem’s gathering up all the remain vote. Will Boris be able to stop the Brexit Party running? It’s a big business now, can’t see them standing down.


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If Boris goes to the country promising a hard Brexit then the Tories who backed the Brexit Party will return to the fold.

[Smartie]

If Boris goes to the country promising a hard Brexit then the Tories who backed the Brexit Party will return to the fold.

Where do the Tory remainers go under this situation though?

That is still a significant number of people.

[marinello59]

Is it wrong that I am warming to Rory Stewart - a down to earth Posh boy if that's even possible 😁

He’s still a Tory. I could never warm to any of them.

[marinello59]

Where do the Tory remainers go under this situation though?

That is still a significant number of people.

I don’t think it will matter, they won’t stop a Tory majority wherever they go.

[heretoday]

Is it wrong that I am warming to Rory Stewart - a down to earth Posh boy if that's even possible ��

He looks a bit manic to me. They all do in fact apart from Boris who's comatose.

[Hibrandenburg]

He looks a bit manic to me. They all do in fact apart from Boris who's comatose.

They all remind me of candidates I see regularly, who are just trying to blag their way through the interview process. Except Boris, he's the guy sent by the job centre who's trying to blag his way out of the job.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2019_06/IMG_7778.jpg.6dda81dc13158c5be2c4287156025f6c.jpg

Not even surprising to see those results. Disturbing but not surprising. For many in the Conservative Party diehard opposition to the EU goes back decades.

[Bostonhibby]

He's head and shoulders above all of the rest of them.

At a very tough time for the country, it would do no harm to have a leader that even non-Tories could get behind and relate to.

That's why he won't get it. We'll get the most offensive, obnoxious option - Boris - who will alienate millions but serve those he is there to serve.Never ever voted Tory in my life but this impressive guy deserves a chance to show if he's something different or just another talker.

I'd support him rather than a Corbyn fronted momentum led cabal, shame we're unlikely to get a chance.

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[Saturday Boy]

Rory Stewart did a programme for the BBC just before the Indyref.

It’s main point was that we should vote No, because he’s an ex-military landowner, and the border country is his anyway.

I’m just glad that I’m not a Tory. And also that I’m sitting in the French sunshine with a cold beer 😄

[Fife-Hibee]

Never ever voted Tory in my life but this impressive guy deserves a chance to show if he's something different or just another talker.

I'd support him rather than a Corbyn fronted momentum led cabal, shame we're unlikely to get a chance.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Allow me to save many years of time. He's just another talker. People like him are trained in the art of manipulation. They know exactly what to tell you to get you on side. But behind that wide smile is a cold calculated sociopath. Life is a game of chess to these people and every statement he makes is just another carefully planned out move.

[makaveli1875]

Allow me to save many years of time. He's just another talker. People like him are trained in the art of manipulation. They know exactly what to tell you to get you on side. But behind that wide smile is a cold calculated sociopath. Life is a game of chess to these people and every statement he makes is just another carefully planned out move.

By people like him i take it you mean politicians ?

[Fife-Hibee]

By people like him i take it you mean politicians ?

Politics is a profession. Not all politicians are sociopaths, but it helps.

[Bostonhibby]

Allow me to save many years of time. He's just another talker. People like him are trained in the art of manipulation. They know exactly what to tell you to get you on side. But behind that wide smile is a cold calculated sociopath. Life is a game of chess to these people and every statement he makes is just another carefully planned out move.In a field full of chancers there's not a lot of options.

My own party, labour, are leaderless and unelectable, in truth a bit like the Tories but for the purposes of this debate we've a poor choice, which Tory. None of the rest even sound any different.

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[Callum_62]

Crikeyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190618/801bb22001ed2ca17e01a147e53473a7.jpg

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[heretoday]

Go get 'im Rory!

[Colr]

Rory Stewart did a programme for the BBC just before the Indyref.

It’s main point was that we should vote No, because he’s an ex-military landowner, and the border country is his anyway.

I’m just glad that I’m not a Tory. And also that I’m sitting in the French sunshine with a cold beer 😄

His dad's Scottish and he was partly raised in Scotland. He was commissioned in the Black Watch for a (very) short time.

His family's house is in Crieff.

[Fife-Hibee]

Isn't one episode of pointless enough torture for one day?

[lord bunberry]

His dad's Scottish and he was partly raised in Scotland. He was commissioned in the Black Watch for a (very) short time.

His family's house is in Crieff.
His real name is Rod Stewart, I don’t know why he felt the need to go with Rory :greengrin

[SHODAN]

Dominic Raab out. Good, he's the only guy in there who would manage to be an even worse choice than Johnson.

Also - not getting all the hype over Rory "David Cameron but a bit awkward" Stewart. He only stands out because he's a Normal Tory instead of an Extreme Tory. Him in power would ensure another election win for them and more wasted years of trying to get an impossible unicorn deal.

[Callum_62]

Dominic Raab out. Good, he's the only guy in there who would manage to be an even worse choice than Johnson.

Also - not getting all the hype over Rory "David Cameron but a bit awkward" Stewart. He only stands out because he's a Normal Tory instead of an Extreme Tory. Him in power would ensure another election win for them and more wasted years of trying to get an impossible unicorn deal.Think he's one of the few who talks sense - someone who could gather people from the centre on both sides of the spectrum

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[Colr]

His real name is Rod Stewart, I don’t know why he felt the need to go with Rory :greengrin

Was his dad a Hibby as well?

[Hibby70]

Rory doesn't trust that seat. Maybe he's afraid of heights, or worried that Boris will push him off it.

[Callum_62]

Rory doesn't trust that seat. Maybe he's afraid of heights, or worried that Boris will push him off it.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

I bet atleast 79. 6% of what they are promising won't come to fruition

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[Bangkok Hibby]

The only people in the UK who buy into the unionist tosh are the tories living in Scotland. The reality is, the vast bulk of the party membership are made up of English nationalists with a sense of ownership over Scotland and it's resources.

Yes but that attitude won't cause them one seconds grief if Scotland leave the union.

[Callum_62]

Jesus christ is Boris really heading to be our PM? [emoji51]

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[Hibby70]

Rory is on the seat.

[James310]

If BJ wins, he will call a general election. As soon as he calls that general election Labour should immediately axe Corbyn and install someone like Yvette Cooper and go all out for remain, they would then be in Government and Cooper the next PM.

[Fife-Hibee]

Absoultely triggered by a 15 year old Scottish lass.

That alone made it worth watching. :faf:

[Fife-Hibee]

If BJ wins, he will call a general election. As soon as he calls that general election Labour should immediately axe Corbyn and install someone like Yvette Cooper and go all out for remain, they would then be in Government and Cooper the next PM.

Or they wouldn't.

[Hibrandenburg]

If BJ wins, he will call a general election. As soon as he calls that general election Labour should immediately axe Corbyn and install someone like Yvette Cooper and go all out for remain, they would then be in Government and Cooper the next PM.

I'm not so sure. They're likely to take a skelping from the Brexit Party ala EU elections. They know if they don't deliver Brexit then they're a dodo party. That said, who ****ing knows what will happen in these mad times.

[Pretty Boy]

If you had no idea of what was going on and tonight was the 1st time you had heard of the contest there is no way you would said Boris was the front runner. He's like a bad joke that has gone too far.

A collection of utterly self centered, self absorbed sociopathic narcissists. Their utter terror when confronted with a question about a general election summed up their priorities.

[Fife-Hibee]

If you had no idea of what was going on and tonight was the 1st time you had heard of the contest there is no way you would said Boris was the front runner. He's like a bad joke that has gone too far.

A collection of utterly self centered, self absorbed sociopathic narcissists. Their utter terror when confronted with a question about a general election summed up their priorities.

If you had no idea what was going on and were left with this to base anything on. You'd be left hanging by your scarf.

[heretoday]

Boris marches on, unfortunately.

The show was just too short for anyone to have a real crack at him although Maitlis raised the Heathrow question which is a potential source of embarrassment. He'll overcome it no doubt.

Jeremy Hunt sounded to me like the only realistic challenger. Rory Stewart didn't look at all well - even worse when he took his tie off. What's that about?.

[Bristolhibby]

Dominic Raab out. Good, he's the only guy in there who would manage to be an even worse choice than Johnson.

Also - not getting all the hype over Rory "David Cameron but a bit awkward" Stewart. He only stands out because he's a Normal Tory instead of an Extreme Tory. Him in power would ensure another election win for them and more wasted years of trying to get an impossible unicorn deal.

Surely a Normal Tory is better than a Mental hard right Tory?

Best of a bad bunch and all.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

Where are the tory voters on here and what is their take on the 'debate'?

[SHODAN]

Surely a Normal Tory is better than a Mental hard right Tory?

Best of a bad bunch and all.

J

A normal Tory means they stay in power.

[Jim44]

Michael Gove’s thrust on every point was ‘f***k Jeremy Corbyn, everything’s his fault’. I take it he has issues with him. :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

Was his dad a Hibby as well?
:greengrin That I don’t know.

[Hibrandenburg]

Gotta feel sorry for Shouty Ruth. Her whole political career has been about Scotland in the union and now she's being told by Westminster Tories that Scotland is expendable. Feel sorry for her? No! Just me?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48675043

[Fife-Hibee]

Where are the tory voters on here and what is their take on the 'debate'?

:tumble:

They will be Brexit Party members now.

[weecounty hibby]

Gotta feel sorry for Shouty Ruth. Her whole political career has been about Scotland in the union and now she's being told by Westminster Tories that Scotland is expendable. Feel sorry for her? No! Just me?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48675043

That ws my first thought when I read her article on the BBC. She has absolutely shat her pants about that poll and her single biggest campaign policy has been ripped to bits by the her very own party membership. Just another branch office who are led by a bigger group who don't really give a **** for Scotland. Scotland is something they can discard when it becomes too troublesome or given up when they feel like it. Good news I would say, when you add that to the Boris poem it would be good of people in Scotland realised quicker that they think of us and that really do believe we are expendable,

[SHODAN]

Davidson is going to have to split the Scottish Tories off from the main party so she doesn't have to keep towing the party line. It also means she can oppose Brexit which is I believe what she wants to do.

[ronaldo7]

Where are the tory voters on here and what is their take on the 'debate'?

My guess is you'll find him/her on the SNP thread.:wink:

[ronaldo7]

That ws my first thought when I read her article on the BBC. She has absolutely shat her pants about that poll and her single biggest campaign policy has been ripped to bits by the her very own party membership. Just another branch office who are led by a bigger group who don't really give a **** for Scotland. Scotland is something they can discard when it becomes too troublesome or given up when they feel like it. Good news I would say, when you add that to the Boris poem it would be good of people in Scotland realised quicker that they think of us and that really do believe we are expendable,

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews% 2F17714590.unionist-think-tank-chair-in-foul-mouthed-twitter-rant-about-the-snp%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0-5dW4bWCJa3uMgrEG0clDTo53tCR49mxvruIO8z5UJV2xE9vLpQ aHW7E&h=AT36JhtsMCzSXuoQ5PRkwI_YDdwODvNtSgoDJGSDbPMRwdt9 WGW1ZtDFKfbNlPuW3BB0WNPbYXuNomdkfzNieRtKzrfw3GoPHq 14yh-KVKjkfWo0iREocYHSUNx5tu23kD-3A15w0M25xJ5BqIhI6k1MndKxcQMfd7y7CUhljDzU__KHDnn3M YbnAmGQmLGDqxrTFs6dhE0kk9d7kguK9aJmu0SjlogoSDEkmkJ P4oyNO61NDx4BAmAFJAgO35ZO5YQX6kfxkusTYt1RxQfBl2z-GgvpG5krwcMiVxg_0yM9UqX8JwXxzkZW6izIBtl8NDJ3bhSB3X vsuwjQcZ3rqiWGEwn1VFcvPCUMjCV-su7ftSLqzyRWNFpig3fQrqnnkQJYYBx8XBhGwaqvNmZba1XUvU oP4nC-tm5enkwL4WD86ohKtSUEpxPgJJTnxlrhZMFLD2n6UrpgHYIDRO b_Jdcd_8hH94M85vvcqUCH0xasEIDRuOexnZz8DLWXMjY33Lzt izXacsPA5aAxmH9oH3Zwe_dvmebQ186Gb5YdKVtJees6LRYHRa tqR--Tpv1iAB8KHgHoZnmt95iCUDrWGRQCo_x8HoM_NDiVC1ynO7g_e xr9AtlAn7zny_y3Sklxl-SBep05nS91bH-pkg1E8ow7qU3Bm3zoN-4RYfJUcg

It seems Mr Kevin Hague(head of top tory think tank, THESE ISLANDS) oft referred to on here(by one), as the font of all wisdom, hasn't covered himself in glory on the results of the latest poll throwing the Scots out of the Union in preference to getting Brexit.

I hope he kept up his contacts in the Pedigree chum brigade.:greengrin

[Mr Grieves]

Crikeyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190618/801bb22001ed2ca17e01a147e53473a7.jpg

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Wow. That's one to drag up everytime "our precious union" is mentioned.

[Mr Grieves]

Davidson is going to have to split the Scottish Tories off from the main party so she doesn't have to keep towing the party line. It also means she can oppose Brexit which is I believe what she wants to do.

The Scottish Tories to declare independence from the English tories?

[ronaldo7]

Wow. That's one to drag up everytime "our precious union" is mentioned.

It's the only policy that Ruthie and her pals have. The defenders of the Union. What other policies do they have?

[heretoday]

We should just give Johnson the job and get on with negotiating some sort of deal with the EU. Time is getting short.

I don't think I can stand to watch these awkward sods debating again. I'm actually getting nostalgic already about the Theresa May era.

[makaveli1875]

We should just give Johnson the job and get on with negotiating some sort of deal with the EU. Time is getting short.

I don't think I can stand to watch these awkward sods debating again. I'm actually getting nostalgic already about the Theresa May era.

You gotta be kidding surely ?

[lapsedhibee]

We should just give Johnson the job and get on with negotiating some sort of deal with the EU. Time is getting short.

I don't think I can stand to watch these awkward sods debating again. I'm actually getting nostalgic already about the Theresa May era.

Don't think there's an EU to negotiate with until a few weeks before 31 October. They seem to be involved in some sort of democratic exercise at the moment, where the whole of Europe got to vote on who their representatives would be for the next five years. Crazy eh.

[lapsedhibee]

You gotta be kidding surely ?

History will look more kindly on TM once it's seen what came next.

[Fife-Hibee]

We should just give Johnson the job and get on with negotiating some sort of deal with the EU. Time is getting short.

I don't think I can stand to watch these awkward sods debating again. I'm actually getting nostalgic already about the Theresa May era.

The UK Government has already wasted 3 years "negotiating" with the EU. At no point has the EU budged on the deal. The genius and expertise of Boris Johnson isn't going to change that.

Food banks are all very nostalgic.

[Bostonhibby]

You gotta be kidding surely ?I'm getting nostalgic about Teresa's ear as well, but that's not the point of the thread so I'll look for a more relevant website[emoji6]

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[SHODAN]

The Scottish Tories to declare independence from the English tories?

Either that or she defects to the Lib Dems. She doesn't strike me as a particularly right wing Conservative which is the direction they're going.

[SHODAN]

Stewart seems to think he can get Gove to support him (not the other way around) for some reason. I suppose he might be in with a shout if he finishes above Gove in this afternoon's ballot?

[Fife-Hibee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWYfTooQur8

[Callum_62]

What's the point? Boris clearly has the backing of the membership

All this now is just noise and a waste of time

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[Fife-Hibee]

Ian Blackford calls Boris a racist. Yet despite giving clear examples before hand and after, the tories continue to crow at him from the benches.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQNtRCN-PE

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190619/aabf27ed2d1b8941d9242c3534ea3fc2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190619/d74209573afbb6d41e26ea8680df5c18.jpg
Yougov has Stewart still winning last nights debate.


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[Fife-Hibee]

Yougov has Stewart still winning last nights debate.

It's not surprising. It was a poll sample of the general population, not tories only. So naturally the one that came across least tory like would be favoured.

[heretoday]

What's the point? Boris clearly has the backing of the membership

All this now is just noise and a waste of time

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Hear hear. They should get on with it and finish this charade. It was better when the Tories elected their leader in camera like the Pope.

Maybe something can be worked out before Oct 31 to mitigate the coming disaster but they need to get negotiating now.

[ronaldo7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWYfTooQur8

:hmmm: Anyone missing?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Rory knocked out, with 27 votes

The international development secretary was eliminated after coming last with 27 votes, 10 fewer than in the second ballot.
Boris Johnson topped the vote again with 143 votes, 17 more than last time.
Jeremy Hunt came second once more, with 54 votes, narrowly ahead of Michael Gove with 51 votes.
Sajid Javid also made it into the next round with 38 votes

[Callum_62]

I dont really understand the polarisation arguement of putting Stewart through to the final 2

Surely having 2 different characters with different thoughts in the final 2 is good thing?

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[Ozyhibby]

Johnson hard to stop now. His hatred of Scots will help a yes vote in a second independence referendum, so every cloud and all that.


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[marinello59]

Johnson hard to stop now. His hatred of Scots will help a yes vote in a second independence referendum, so every cloud and all that.


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He won’t be stopped, Boris Johnson is going to be the next PM. And we laughed at the Americans when Trump became President.

[weecounty hibby]

He won’t be stopped, Boris Johnson is going to be the next PM. And we laughed at the Americans when Trump became President.

Can you imagine the dialogue between the two of them. It will be the least statesmen like debate in the history of slavering pish and not having a clue as to what you are on about

[Hibrandenburg]

Can you imagine the dialogue between the two of them. It will be the least statesmen like debate in the history of slavering pish and not having a clue as to what you are on about

It terrifies me what both those idiots will be plotting and planning. Expect the US to back any UK attempt at stopping Scottish independence and support an inner Irish border.

[Bristolhibby]

I dont really understand the polarisation arguement of putting Stewart through to the final 2

Surely having 2 different characters with different thoughts in the final 2 is good thing?

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Not if you are a Tory member.

[Sylar]

He won’t be stopped, Boris Johnson is going to be the next PM. And we laughed at the Americans when Trump became President.

Difference being, they voted for Trump.

We're going to get Johnson by default.

Tragic.

[Colr]

I certainly hope by end of next year we will be shot of Trump, Johnson and Corbyn.

[weecounty hibby]

I certainly hope by end of next year we will be shot of Trump, Johnson and Corbyn.

Farage, please don't leave Farage out if that list!

[Fife-Hibee]

He won’t be stopped, Boris Johnson is going to be the next PM. And we laughed at the Americans when Trump became President.

46.1% of the US electorate voted for Trump
0.2% or less of the UK electorate will vote for Boris

[marinello59]

46.1% of the US electorate voted for Trump
0.2% or less of the UK electorate will vote for Boris

They vote for a President. We don’t vote for a PM, we vote for a local MP only.

[Fife-Hibee]

They vote for a President. We don’t vote for a PM, we vote for a local MP only.

Indeed. But the tories with a minority of MPs in parliament are about to choose a PM for us.

[Hibrandenburg]

They vote for a President. We don’t vote for a PM, we vote for a local MP only.

True, but we vote for a party that has normally selected its prime minister in waiting.

[marinello59]

True, but we vote for a party that has normally selected its prime minister in waiting.

I’m not saying it’s right, it is what it is. The way that Boris has been manipulating this whole process by lending votes out to ensure he ends up facing the person he wants stinks.

[Hibrandenburg]

I’m not saying it’s right, it is what it is. The way that Boris has been manipulating this whole process by lending votes out to ensure he ends up facing the person he wants stinks.

I think we can pretty much all agree that he's a chancer. He'll need international recognition after he's alienated the UK from the EU, not to worry though, I'm sure there's a world leader out there that will oblige. Interesting times ahead, in the Chinese sense.

[Moulin Yarns]

Latest vote has sajid javid drop out.

BJ 159
MG 61
JH 59
SJ 34

[Fife-Hibee]

Latest vote has sajid javid drop out.

BJ 159
MG 61
JH 59
SJ 34

They could have all saved face by dropping out and handing the keys to the nuclear missile control room to Boris at the very beginning. This whole "leadership contest" is one huge farce.

[Sylar]

Even assuming whoever the a.n.other candidate is acquires all of the remaining votes from Javid and Gove/Hunt, they'd still need people to defect from BoJo.

It is indeed a coronation, and the entire preamble has been totally pointless.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Bozo is overwhelmingly the choice of the party membership, apparently, meaning he is going to get the job he has always believed his birthright. It's appalling, but it's going to happen; an incompetent, over-privileged pathological liar.

[Ozyhibby]

Even assuming whoever the a.n.other candidate is acquires all of the remaining votes from Javid and Gove/Hunt, they'd still need people to defect from BoJo.

It is indeed a coronation, and the entire preamble has been totally pointless.

No they only need to come second to make the final two which then goes to a members vote.


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[Ozyhibby]

Bozo is overwhelmingly the choice of the party membership, apparently, meaning he is going to get the job he has always believed his birthright. It's appalling, but it's going to happen; an incompetent, over-privileged pathological liar.

The two spoiled ballot papers this morning could mean that there is a chance he can’t form a govt and will have to go for a GE.
Current majority is 4 with the DUP. If those two defect then it’s GE time.


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[weecounty hibby]

Bozo is overwhelmingly the choice of the party membership, apparently, meaning he is going to get the job he has always believed his birthright. It's appalling, but it's going to happen; an incompetent, over-privileged pathological liar.
You forgot bigoted racist!!!

[cabbageandribs1875]

Gove 75

Hunt 77

Johnson 160



happy Gove is out

[overdrive]

Sad times when Jeremy See You Next Tuesday is the lesser of two evils.

[Sylar]

Johnny or cu9t...

Stellar.

[SHODAN]

And now Davidson will presumably back Hunt, followed by Johnson when he inevitably wins.

[Colr]

Farage, please don't leave Farage out if that list!

No let's not forgot him.

[Hibernia&Alba]

One Boris Johnson, one Jeremy Hunt, and two James Hunts.

[Mr Grieves]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48714864

This looks bad. I don't think saying he acted instinctively will help.

[Peevemor]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48714864

This looks bad. I don't think saying he acted instinctively will help.

I have to say that although I sympathise with the activists (and have no love for the tories), I don't see that he done much wrong.

Had it been a bloke he stopped would there have been the same outrage?

[Callum_62]

I have to say that although I sympathise with the activists (and have no love for the tories), I don't see that he done much wrong.

Had it been a bloke he stopped would there have been the same outrage?Probably not although the physicality to stop a women in general is not the same as to stop a man

Looks a bit OTT to me

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[Hibrandenburg]

I have to say that although I sympathise with the activists (and have no love for the tories), I don't see that he done much wrong.

Had it been a bloke he stopped would there have been the same outrage?

The whole tactic is to provoke reactions like this to guarantee maximum media coverage. Job well done as far as she's concerned.

[Peevemor]

The whole tactic is to provoke reactions like this to guarantee maximum media coverage. Job well done as far as she's concerned.

Exactly.

[Mr Grieves]

I have to say that although I sympathise with the activists (and have no love for the tories), I don't see that he done much wrong.

Had it been a bloke he stopped would there have been the same outrage?

Would you grab a woman like that?

[ballengeich]

I have to say that although I sympathise with the activists (and have no love for the tories), I don't see that he done much wrong.

Had it been a bloke he stopped would there have been the same outrage?

No, which is why demonstrators tend to put women into these situations. If you're a believer in sexual equality then the level of outrage should not be influenced by the gender of the demonstrator being personhandled.

[Ozyhibby]

I have to say that although I sympathise with the activists (and have no love for the tories), I don't see that he done much wrong.

Had it been a bloke he stopped would there have been the same outrage?

Would he have stopped a bloke like that though? I don’t think so. This was a man exerting his dominance over a woman physically and it was disgusting. People saying she deserved it because she was protesting are excusing the govt violently suppressing peaceful protest. We have to have higher standards than that.


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[Peevemor]

Would you grab a woman like that?

It's difficult to say. I remember once breaking up a fight (more of an attack) and probably ended up using just as much force, though in saying that the girl was going mental so it's not really comparable.

Maybe he was excessive, but did he injure or even hurt her?

[Ozyhibby]

It's difficult to say. I remember once breaking up a fight (more of an attack) and probably ended up using just as much force, though in saying that the girl was going mental so it's not really comparable.

Maybe he was excessive, but did he injure or even hurt her?

He was violent enough that he could have hurt her. It was assault.


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[G B Young]

The whole tactic is to provoke reactions like this to guarantee maximum media coverage. Job well done as far as she's concerned.

Indeed. She clearly knew what she was doing and whoever filmed it was in prime position to capture any hoped-for reaction.

He was a bit too heavy-handed by the looks of it, but the faux outrage from opposition politicians is hard to take seriously.

[ronaldo7]

He was rather heavy handed. I think the red mist descended. He could quite easily have stood up and put his arms outstretched to stop her moving past him. If she'd then tried to pass, he may have escalated it. It's a difficult situation to find yourself in, but I think he'll be getting his collar felt. If someone can get arrested for milk shaking, Farage, then the met police have a decision to make.

[ronaldo7]

Indeed. She clearly knew what she was doing and whoever filmed it was in prime position to capture any hoped-for reaction.

He was a bit too heavy-handed by the looks of it, but the faux outrage from opposition politicians is hard to take seriously.

I noticed someone sitting at the meal filming it on their phone. Anyone protesting these days will always film the action as evidence of what's occurring.

[James310]

He was violent enough that he could have hurt her. It was assault.


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If this has been John Swinney stopping an anti Independence protester going for Nicola Sturgeon would you be saying it was assualt and therefore advocating he be charged and likely lose his job? Just checking.

[ballengeich]

As an aside, whoever was arranging security for the meeting will be in trouble. It could have been someone with more malevolent intent than Greenpeace that walked in.

[ronaldo7]

The whole tactic is to provoke reactions like this to guarantee maximum media coverage. Job well done as far as she's concerned.

It would have been a 20 second slot on the news about the mansion house speech by the chancellor being interrupted.

The tory minister has given, Greenpeace, national airtime they'll be delighted with.

[Sylar]

If this has been John Swinney stopping an anti Independence protester going for Nicola Sturgeon would you be saying it was assualt and therefore advocating he be charged and likely lose his job? Just checking.

Regardless to anyone's politics, he was bang out of line. He's already admitted himself that he was wrong, apologised and submitted himself for investigation.

He was overly physical beyond reasonable means. In today's security climate, she shouldn't have been there and could well have gotten to where she did with a knife, gun, acid, device etc...I understand that. But he had no right whatsoever handling her the way he did.

[ronaldo7]

If this has been John Swinney stopping an anti Independence protester going for Nicola Sturgeon would you be saying it was assualt and therefore advocating he be charged and likely lose his job? Just checking.

Are you on the correct thread? Just checking. 👍.

[marinello59]

It would have been a 20 second slot on the news about the mansion house speech by the chancellor being interrupted.

The tory minister has given, Greenpeace, national airtime they'll be delighted with.

Yeap. A fantastic example of direct action paying off. Well done to the protestors.

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141822257007910912?s=09

To be fair the paper she was carrying mightve contained some really harsh words. The sash with "climate." written on it was obviously severe provocation

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[Ozyhibby]

If this has been John Swinney stopping an anti Independence protester going for Nicola Sturgeon would you be saying it was assualt and therefore advocating he be charged and likely lose his job? Just checking.

Absolutely. 100%. I’m against using violence to stop any kind of protest. And I’m very much against using violence against women. I would want Swinney charged and sacked. Clear enough?


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[James310]

Absolutely. 100%. I’m against using violence to stop any kind of protest. And I’m very much against using violence against women. I would want Swinney charged and sacked. Clear enough?


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Very clear, thank you.

[heretoday]

Maybe the Mansion House should employ more efficient people on the doors to check tickets etc. How did these ladies get in en masse?

[The Modfather]

If this has been John Swinney stopping an anti Independence protester going for Nicola Sturgeon would you be saying it was assualt and therefore advocating he be charged and likely lose his job? Just checking.

James, what’s your thoughts on Boris looking a shoe in to get into power and making a no deal more likely? Out of interest what kind of an impact do you think Brexit will have on Scotland?

[G B Young]

I noticed someone sitting at the meal filming it on their phone. Anyone protesting these days will always film the action as evidence of what's occurring.

Yes that was kind of the point I was making - that the protestors made sure she was being filmed in the hope that she sparked the sort of reaction they could then exploit for maximum exposure.

As an aside, while there is a useful purpose to be served by mobile cameras in certain situations the default mentality of many folk to film anything and everything can be extraordinary and often disturbing. I know a guy who worked as an air steward who stepped in to deliver CPR on the tarmac after a passenger had what proved to be a fatal heart attack when disembarking. At one point he glanced up to discover he was surrounded by other passengers filming his efforts rather than expressing any sort of concern for their fellow passenger.

[G B Young]

Absolutely. 100%. I’m against using violence to stop any kind of protest. And I’m very much against using violence against women. I would want Swinney charged and sacked. Clear enough?


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Where do you draw the line? What about a female suicide bomber or an armed female terrorist 'protesting' against the West's policies in the Middle East? Surely violence is justified there to stop the protest (if anyone was brave enough to take such a person on).

If what you actually mean is peaceful protests then what constitutes peaceful? Climate change protesters bringing city centres to a standstill by stopping traffic? Is that peaceful when it's potentially dangerous? Was the woman in this particular incident acting peacefully in rushing towards the stage at an event she'd gatecrashed?

[James310]

James, what’s your thoughts on Boris looking a shoe in to get into power and making a no deal more likely? Out of interest what kind of an impact do you think Brexit will have on Scotland?

It's awful, a no deal Brexit would be a disaster for all of the UK. I don't think he will get a no deal through Parliament though.

[Ozyhibby]

Where do you draw the line? What about a female suicide bomber or an armed female terrorist 'protesting' against the West's policies in the Middle East? Surely violence is justified there to stop the protest (if anyone was brave enough to take such a person on).

If what you actually mean is peaceful protests then what constitutes peaceful? Climate change protesters bringing city centres to a standstill by stopping traffic? Is that peaceful when it's potentially dangerous? Was the woman in this particular incident acting peacefully in rushing towards the stage at an event she'd gatecrashed?

Of course I meant peaceful. Yes this woman was a peaceful protester armed only with some leaflets on climate change. And yes stopping traffic is peaceful protest.
Where do you draw the line on the states violence in suppressing protest? Is it ok to grab a woman by the throat? What about water canons? Tanks Tiananmen Square style? What degree of state violence against peaceful protest is ok for you?


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[The Modfather]

It's awful, a no deal Brexit would be a disaster for all of the UK. I don't think he will get a no deal through Parliament though.

Agreed. What trade deals do you think we will have post Brexit, with who, and on what terms? What will happen with the Irish border?

Do you think Scotland will be better off or worse off post Brexit than we currently are? Do you have confidence in Boris as PM to deliver for Scotland?

[Moulin Yarns]

Agreed. What trade deals do you think we will have and on what terms? What will happen with the Irish border?

Do you think Scotland will be better off or worse off post Brexit than we currently are? Do you have confidence in Boris as PM to deliver for Scotland?

Unless I'm missing something, has the EU not been clear that renegotiation of 'the deal' is not happening. In which case all Johnson/Hunt can do in Westminster is put the existing withdrawal agreement back to parliament?

The only thing that could change is the wording of the political declaration about the future relationship between the EU and the UK.

[Moulin Yarns]

Mark Field suspended, police investigations into a small number of reports of an assault in the mansion House.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48718725

[Moulin Yarns]

Welsh tory mp removed by constituency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48720176

[Ozyhibby]

Welsh tory mp removed by constituency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48720176

If Tories can’t hold that then we are heading for GE. I think we are anyway because we are stuck.


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[GlesgaeHibby]

Welsh tory mp removed by constituency.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48720176

Lib dems will fancy their chances in this seat. Would be a great start for Boris. Edging closer to that general election.

[Moulin Yarns]

Are we looking at another suspension?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48713978

[James310]

Unless I'm missing something, has the EU not been clear that renegotiation of 'the deal' is not happening. In which case all Johnson/Hunt can do in Westminster is put the existing withdrawal agreement back to parliament?

The only thing that could change is the wording of the political declaration about the future relationship between the EU and the UK.

We agree, there is a first.

Boris says he will get a deal but how, I have no idea. He will also not get a no deal through Parliament so we are back to where we started at.

[Moulin Yarns]

And possibly another suspension, where will it end?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48713049

[Moulin Yarns]

We agree, there is a first.

Boris says he will get a deal but how, I have no idea. He will also not get a no deal through Parliament so we are back to where we started at.

👍😁

I realise that Johnson /Hunt wouldn't repeal A50, so what next? Second referendum, neither will want that. The only way out of the impasse, as far as I can see is a general election, maybe a no confidence vote first.

[G B Young]

Of course I meant peaceful. Yes this woman was a peaceful protester armed only with some leaflets on climate change. And yes stopping traffic is peaceful protest.
Where do you draw the line on the states violence in suppressing protest? Is it ok to grab a woman by the throat? What about water canons? Tanks Tiananmen Square style? What degree of state violence against peaceful protest is ok for you?


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I'd have stopped short of water cannons, but would have happily seen some kids sent in with some of those pump-action water pistols to give the protesters stopping traffic in Edinburgh a good soaking :wink:

More seriously, as somebody who has worked in liaison with the emergency services, I can't condone any sort of protest that jeopardises their ability to carry out their job, which lying down in the street to stop traffic certainly does.

Personally, I think any organised protest which has gone through the official channels is absolutely fine and, provided it sticks to its remit, there should be no reason for violence. Be that independence marches, Stop the War marches or People's Vote marches, there's no reason you can't ensure much more effective and sympathetic media coverage than by gatecrashing an event like last night's. We had a traffic free day in the Old Town recently as part of the Open Doors event and that garnered plenty of positive coverage.

Unannounced protests like that, or the climate change protest in Edinburgh this week are purposely confrontational and likely to lead to heightened reactions, which ever way your sympathies lie. I don't really have any more sympathy for those sort of protesters than I do for pitch invaders at Easter Road.

[Ozyhibby]

I'd have stopped short of water cannons, but would have happily seen some kids sent in with some of those pump-action water pistols to give the protesters stopping traffic in Edinburgh a good soaking :wink:

More seriously, as somebody who has worked in liaison with the emergency services, I can't condone any sort of protest that jeopardises their ability to carry out their job, which lying down in the street to stop traffic certainly does.

Personally, I think any organised protest which has gone through the official channels is absolutely fine and, provided it sticks to its remit, there should be no reason for violence. Be that independence marches, Stop the War marches or People's Vote marches, there's no reason you can't ensure much more effective and sympathetic media coverage than by gatecrashing an event like last night's. We had a traffic free day in the Old Town recently as part of the Open Doors event and that garnered plenty of positive coverage.

Unannounced protests like that, or the climate change protest in Edinburgh this week are purposely confrontational and likely to lead to heightened reactions, which ever way your sympathies lie. I don't really have any more sympathy for those sort of protesters than I do for pitch invaders at Easter Road.

You make good points about the effectiveness or desirability of different types of protest but we can’t allow the state to use violence to suppress it. That should be a red line. If the protest is peaceful then we have the courts and criminal justice system for dealing with any inconvenience caused.


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[Pete]

As for the protest, I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s how you would deal with someone if you thought they were genuinely dangerous or a security risk. You wouldn’t grab someone like that and frogmarch them out, even if they were half your size.

I’m sure he was “acting on instinct”, but not the ones he’s suggesting we believe and you don’t have to be Sigmund Freud to work them out. A mask definitely slipped.

Good for the protestors. Much more of the same please.

[Ozyhibby]

As for the protest, I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s how you would deal with someone if you thought they were genuinely dangerous or a security risk. You wouldn’t grab someone like that and frogmarch them out, even if they were half your size.

I’m sure he was “acting on instinct”, but not the ones he’s suggesting we believe and you don’t have to be Sigmund Freud to work them out. A mask definitely slipped.

Good for the protestors. Much more of the same please.

His instincts would have been very different if it had been a 120kg 6ft bloke. This was a chance to assault a woman and he took it.


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[Peevemor]

His instincts would have been very different if it had been a 120kg 6ft bloke. This was a chance to assault a woman and he took it.


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:rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

I've already posted about the following, but it made me chuckle

https://twitter.com/patrickharvie/status/1142070047264903171?s=19

[Ozyhibby]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home?__twitter_impression=true



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[Ozyhibby]

:rolleyes:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190621/6fc79064440ec4cd5c2219f29dfc60aa.jpg
Type of man he is.



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[southsider]

We have a guy (certainly not a man) who had the Police at his door for 'beating up his partner'. This piece of sh*t is ready to be the next PM of the UK. It's just unthinkable that any right minded person would vote for this clown. What, imho, is needed a London free, Pro-independence Labour Party who can deliver what the people need. Proper pensions, a totally state run NHS and properly managed Schools. Abolishing the charity status of fee-paying schools would also be a step in the right direction.

[Radium]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190622/decb8c2f315d61719969e492d1d11185.jpg

There is something utterly toxic on both sides of the political spectrum and it is relatively easy to apply a filter.

However...

This is the response of a Telegraph columnist to a neighbour recording the sounds of a disturbance in the flat next door.

Having seen at close quarters the impact of Domestic abuse, this attitude cannot be allowed to get traction.

The details of the incident will be debated, the levels of intrusion will increase but it must never be the case that reporting the incident was the issue.



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[The Modfather]

We have a guy (certainly not a man) who had the Police at his door for 'beating up his partner'. This piece of sh*t is ready to be the next PM of the UK. It's just unthinkable that any right minded person would vote for this clown. What, imho, is needed a London free, Pro-independence Labour Party who can deliver what the people need. Proper pensions, a totally state run NHS and properly managed Schools. Abolishing the charity status of fee-paying schools would also be a step in the right direction.

Where did you read he “beat up his parther”? Agree with the rest of your post.

[lapsedhibee]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190622/decb8c2f315d61719969e492d1d11185.jpg

There is something utterly toxic on both sides of the political spectrum and it is relatively easy to apply a filter.

However...

This is the response of a Telegraph columnist to a neighbour recording the sounds of a disturbance in the flat next door.

Having seen at close quarters the impact of Domestic abuse, this attitude cannot be allowed to get traction.

The details of the incident will be debated, the levels of intrusion will increase but it must never be the case that reporting the incident was the issue.



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Allison Pearson and Ally McCoist, two completely similar ****s in a pod.

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting how many Tories are now against neighbours getting involved in domestic abuse. It’s neighbours reporting domestic abuse that saves lives.


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[Callum_62]

.

[Callum_62]

Interesting how many Tories are now against neighbours getting involved in domestic abuse. It’s neighbours reporting domestic abuse that saves lives.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBet they arnt against neighbours dobbing in potential immigration breaches

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[Future17]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190622/decb8c2f315d61719969e492d1d11185.jpg

There is something utterly toxic on both sides of the political spectrum and it is relatively easy to apply a filter.

However...

This is the response of a Telegraph columnist to a neighbour recording the sounds of a disturbance in the flat next door.

Having seen at close quarters the impact of Domestic abuse, this attitude cannot be allowed to get traction.

The details of the incident will be debated, the levels of intrusion will increase but it must never be the case that reporting the incident was the issue.



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She's followed it up with a suggestion that the neighbours recorded "a private conversation" and that people who are ok with it have a "stazi (sic) mindset".

You couldn't make it up.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Mark Field slipping the tongue to Lucia Hunt

22214


https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-news/mark-field-lucia-hunt-jeremy-hunt/?fbclid=IwAR3duvvWPIm5wicQpgNmRCEPYtd_f4SeFWoRYP7o YXwvnptcICBmHemp5WQ

[Hibernia&Alba]

Who was Bozo arguing with when the police were called? Was it his wife or one of his many bits on the side?

[lapsedhibee]

Who was Bozo arguing with when the police were called? Was it his wife or one of his many bits on the side? Bidie-in.

[lapsedhibee]

We have a guy (certainly not a man) who had the Police at his door for 'beating up his partner'. This piece of sh*t is ready to be the next PM of the UK.

:tsk tsk: Bojoke doesn't beat people up. But he is happy to discuss having others beaten up.

[Callum_62]

Why is Johnson so popular?

Folk talk about him being charismatic etc but every time I've seen him he stumbles and bumbles his way through and often contradicts what he's said in the past

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[Future17]

Mark Field slipping the tongue to Lucia Hunt

22214


https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-news/mark-field-lucia-hunt-jeremy-hunt/?fbclid=IwAR3duvvWPIm5wicQpgNmRCEPYtd_f4SeFWoRYP7o YXwvnptcICBmHemp5WQ

Well that's more than a little creepy-looking.

[Smartie]

Well that's more than a little creepy-looking.

I'm no fan of the Tories but I have issues with that article. It's taking a couple of still photos and making all sorts of assumptions without any sense of context or perspective.

That's the way propaganda works.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Why is Johnson so popular?

Folk talk about him being charismatic etc but every time I've seen him he stumbles and bumbles his way through and often contradicts what he's said in the past

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I think that's part of his appeal to some: he isn't the robotic politician who uses the usual arid phrases. His persona is the slightly baffled posh boy with ruffled hair. However, make no mistake, he's a devious bassa who is much more intelligent and calculating than he pretends to be.

[Future17]

I'm no fan of the Tories but I have issues with that article. It's taking a couple of still photos and making all sorts of assumptions without any sense of context or perspective.

That's the way propaganda works.

To be honest, I didn't read the article, but I agree with your point nonetheless.

His body and hand/arm position is awkward at best though (given what little we know about the context.

[Hibrandenburg]

Why is Johnson so popular?

Folk talk about him being charismatic etc but every time I've seen him he stumbles and bumbles his way through and often contradicts what he's said in the past

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There's a wave of anti intellectualism sweeping the world again. It happens every so often and stupid people like to be surrounded by stupid people because then stupid becomes normal. History is full of intelligent rogues who have taken advantage of this and it normally doesn't end well.

[cabbageandribs1875]

£15 on Jeremy Hunt(and NOT the other *unt) @7/2 :)

[Fife-Hibee]

£15 on Jeremy Hunt(and NOT the other *unt) @7/2 :)

:no way:

.

[Fife-Hibee]

Hunt saying he'll hold the SNP to account over their poor record on the NHS.

:faf:

[James310]

Hunt saying he'll hold the SNP to account over their poor record on the NHS.

:faf:

Quite right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45969866


"The NHS in Scotland is not financially sustainable and its performance has continued to decline, the public spending watchdog has warned.

Audit Scotland said health boards were "struggling to break even" and none had met all of the key national targets - with NHS Lothian not meeting any.

It highlighted increasing demand on NHS services, and rising waiting lists."

Maybe Audit Scotland are wrong?

[weecounty hibby]

Quite right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45969866


"The NHS in Scotland is not financially sustainable and its performance has continued to decline, the public spending watchdog has warned.

Audit Scotland said health boards were "struggling to break even" and none had met all of the key national targets - with NHS Lothian not meeting any.

It highlighted increasing demand on NHS services, and rising waiting lists."

Maybe Audit Scotland are wrong?

No they aren't, and I don't think that even the biggest SNP supporter would say it couldn't be better. But really an English MP saying he will hold the SNP to account for the Scottish NHS, surely he would be better looking at his own government first to see if they could get Englands NHS up to the same standard

[Fife-Hibee]

Quite right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45969866


"The NHS in Scotland is not financially sustainable and its performance has continued to decline, the public spending watchdog has warned.

Audit Scotland said health boards were "struggling to break even" and none had met all of the key national targets - with NHS Lothian not meeting any.

It highlighted increasing demand on NHS services, and rising waiting lists."

Maybe Audit Scotland are wrong?

Geez, if that's how bad the best funded NHS in the UK is doing, then I dread to think how poorly they're doing elsewhere.

Oh wait, this is 2019 and we have internet. So we can actually take a look - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hunt#NHS_funding

[James310]

No they aren't, and I don't think that even the biggest SNP supporter would say it couldn't be better. But really an English MP saying he will hold the SNP to account for the Scottish NHS, surely he would be better looking at his own government first to see if they could get Englands NHS up to the same standard

It's the same old arguments, because England are worse that somehow makes our performance where we miss pretty much all the targets acceptable.

I am sure there are plenty on here who would say the SNP actually could not do better because they will blame Westminster or setting the targets too high, I think that was the last excuse when this was discussed previously.

Edit: As predicted, see reply above.

[weecounty hibby]

It's the same old arguments, because England are worse that somehow makes our performance where we miss pretty much all the targets acceptable.

I am sure there are plenty on here who would say the SNP actually could not do better because they will blame Westminster or setting the targets too high, I think that was the last excuse when this was discussed previously.
Not what I said at all and I could have out money on you coming back like that, you are do predictable. I actually said no one could argue that in Scotland we should be doing better but it is rather hypocritical of an English Tory to be saying he is going to hold SNP to account when England is performing worse. Perhaps he should start the account holding closer to home

[James310]

Not what I said at all and I could have out money on you coming back like that, you are do predictable. I actually said no one could argue that in Scotland we should be doing better but it is rather hypocritical of an English Tory to be saying he is going to hold SNP to account when England is performing worse. Perhaps he should start the account holding closer to home

You will find lots on here that will argue that actually it could not be any better.

I am surprised you are so easily shocked by a politician being somewhat hypocritical, it's a regular occurrence from politicians across all parties.

[weecounty hibby]

You will find lots on here that will argue that actually it could not be any better.

I am surprised you are so easily shocked by a politician being somewhat hypocritical, it's a regular occurrence from politicians across all parties.
Once again a predictable response from you. Where did I say I was shocked? He is pandering to the little Englanders in his party while deflecting away from his own governments poor record on the NHS. He will show those uppity Jocks who's boss if he gets to be PM. No shocks, no surprises just full on Tory as usual

[Callum_62]

Coming from the former health secretary that is universally hated by doctors and nurses across the NHS its a bit rich.

Doesn't Scotland have the best performing NHS within the UK?

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[ronaldo7]

Coming from the former health secretary that is universally hated by doctors and nurses across the NHS its a bit rich.

Doesn't Scotland have the best performing NHS within the UK?

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The imperial masters have arrived in jock land for a three day visit.

Irn bru selfie...check
Get on with the day job, Nicola, yer NHS is pish...check
Reminder of my Scottish roots...check
Get back in yer box and bow to the Empire...check

Meanwhile, England is up **** creek without a paddle.

[Fife-Hibee]

It's the same old arguments, because England are worse that somehow makes our performance where we miss pretty much all the targets acceptable.

It's not an old argument. You just misunderstand it. We recognize the NHS in Scotland isn't doing great just now. We also recognize that it is a result of a UK Government dragging us down with them.

[Fife-Hibee]

You will find lots on here that will argue that actually it could not be any better.

No you won't.

[neil7908]

There's a wave of anti intellectualism sweeping the world again. It happens every so often and stupid people like to be surrounded by stupid people because then stupid becomes normal. History is full of intelligent rogues who have taken advantage of this and it normally doesn't end well.

Thing is, he isn't actually popular. His approval ratings nationally are terrible. He's got this far by being all things to all people but it's now wearing thin - he ran as Mayor of London being a moderate Tory and a bit of a joke.

Then he switched to a hard Brexiter when he saw the way the wind was blowing. He's like Trump in that respect.

Even in the running for PM he's been getting away with convincing some Tory MPs that he's a 'One Nation' moderate looking to genuinely renegotiate with the EU but others seem to think he'll give them the hard Brexit they lust for.

He'll be found out incredibly quickly.

[degenerated]

Meanwhile, England is up **** creek without a paddle.

Never mind the paddle, they haven't even got a canoe

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[StevieC]

Jeremy Hunt getting interviewed this morning delivered an interesting phrase (whilst talking about delivering a “no deal” Brexit) ...

“unlocking the potential of our country”

Putting aside the fact he said “country” instead of “nation” ..

Isn’t that phrase as equally relevant to Scotland as it is to the UK?

[ronaldo7]

You will find lots on here that will argue that actually it could not be any better.

I am surprised you are so easily shocked by a politician being somewhat hypocritical, it's a regular occurrence from politicians across all parties.

You're constantly on here asking for proof of this, and that. Can you provide proof for your first sentence please.

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/jude5456/status/1142835898050121729?s=09

This is just ridiculous. The UK is in a mental place right now

This is supposedly the less extreme choice for PM

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[Bostonhibby]

Not sure it's going to make me any happier about whoever our next PM is, but one rampant Tory I know revealed over a few beers that he's no intention of voting for Boris simply because he's the MP's choice and the MP's failed to deliver the public's choice of Brexit.

They're mad as a box of frogs and mostly disconnected from worlds other than their own.

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[Ozyhibby]

Ken Clarke has now said he will vote to bring down the govt if they go for no deal. Almost certainly they have the numbers for it now.


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[heretoday]

I'm reading Johnson's biography and it's clear that he has been addicted to winning ever since birth but having won he gets bored and moves on.

Whether it's winning the affections of some posh lady or winning top jobs in the press or government, it makes little difference. If he does become PM I doubt he'll last long. Let's hope he doesn't do anything serious in that time.

His record suggests he'll do sod all of substance.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

mostly disconnected from worlds other than their own.

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In my experience that applies to most people, myself included.

[G B Young]

We have a guy (certainly not a man) who had the Police at his door for 'beating up his partner'. This piece of sh*t is ready to be the next PM of the UK. It's just unthinkable that any right minded person would vote for this clown. What, imho, is needed a London free, Pro-independence Labour Party who can deliver what the people need. Proper pensions, a totally state run NHS and properly managed Schools. Abolishing the charity status of fee-paying schools would also be a step in the right direction.

That is not why the police were at his door. Had that been the reason then it's safe to say they wouldn't have been satisfied there was nothing to concern them.

Boris would not be my choice as PM, but when you consider that arguably Scotland's most high profile politician of the last few decades and our former First Minister has been charged with multiple counts of sexual assault and two of attempted rape (I am fully aware, I should add, that he remains innocent until proven guilty) then perhaps Johnson's perceived character flaws are overstated.

[Hibrandenburg]

That is not why the police were at his door. Had that been the reason then it's safe to say they wouldn't have been satisfied there was nothing to concern them.

Boris would not be my choice as PM, but when you consider that arguably Scotland's most high profile politician of the last few decades and our former First Minister has been charged with multiple counts of sexual assault and two of attempted rape (I am fully aware, I should add, that he remains innocent until proven guilty) then perhaps Johnson's perceived character flaws are overstated.

Nope, if guilty they're both ****s and should be nowhere near the top job.

[heretoday]

It's a thousand pities Boris won't go on Sky TV for their debate. I bet Kay Burley could hit the target with a few darts.

[G B Young]

Nope, if guilty they're both ****s and should be nowhere near the top job.

Guilty of what in Johnson's case?

[Fife-Hibee]

Guilty of what in Johnson's case?

What is he not guilty of?

This isn't even half of it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-boris-johnson-the-gaffe-prone-politician-tipped-to-succeed-theresa-may-controveries-offensive-remarks-2019-5?r=US&IR=T

[James310]

Nope, if guilty they're both ****s and should be nowhere near the top job.

Can you clarify, are you suggesting a guilty Alex Salmond is equivalent to the current gaffe prone and buffoon Boris Johnson?

[Fife-Hibee]

Can you clarify, are you suggesting a guilty Alex Salmond is equivalent to the current gaffe prone and buffoon Boris Johnson?

It doesn't need to be equivalent. Boris Johnson has openly done quite enough already not to be anywhere near the top job. He doesn't need to be found guilty of anything else, he's openly guilty of things that should stop him in his tracks. But England is full of mentalists just like the US and the more openly criminal and racist he is, the more the white people of middle England love "good old Bojo".

Alex isn't openly guilty of anything thus far. So it's impossible to compare him to Boris at this moment in time. However, if he is found guilty, you can be sure he won't be near a top job ever again in Scotland, because we're not complete nutjobs up here.

[James310]

It doesn't need to be equivalent. Boris Johnson has openly done quite enough already not to be anywhere near the top job. He doesn't need to be found guilty of anything else, he's openly guilty of things that should stop him in his tracks. But England is full of mentalists just like the US and the more openly criminal and racist he is, the more the white people of middle England love "good old Bojo".

Alex isn't openly guilty of anything thus far. So it's impossible to compare him to Boris at this moment in time. However, if he is found guilty, you can be sure he won't be near a top job ever again in Scotland, because we're not complete nutjobs up here.

You love the English don't you.

But you do agree a guilty Alex Salmond is nowhere near the level of a pretty stupid and gaffe ridden, but non criminal, Boris Johnson?

[Callum_62]

You love the English don't you.

But you do agree a guilty Alex Salmond is nowhere near the level of a pretty stupid and gaffe ridden, but non criminal, Boris Johnson?Is Alex Salmond inline to be UK PM?

Always petty points scoring on here

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[Fife-Hibee]

You love the English don't you.

Just the minority non-racist ones.


But you do agree a guilty Alex Salmond is nowhere near the level of a pretty stupid and gaffe ridden, but non criminal, Boris Johnson?

If you want to write off openly racist comments as "gaffe ridden", then that's your business. Although i'd imagine most people in Scotland would disagree with you.

[G B Young]

Is Alex Salmond inline to be UK PM?

Always petty points scoring on here

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He was First Minister of Scotland for seven years, twice leader of Scotland's biggest political party and a long-serving Westminster MP. Fair to say he's occupied high office.

[G B Young]

It doesn't need to be equivalent. Boris Johnson has openly done quite enough already not to be anywhere near the top job. He doesn't need to be found guilty of anything else, he's openly guilty of things that should stop him in his tracks. But England is full of mentalists just like the US and the more openly criminal and racist he is, the more the white people of middle England love "good old Bojo".

Alex isn't openly guilty of anything thus far. So it's impossible to compare him to Boris at this moment in time. However, if he is found guilty, you can be sure he won't be near a top job ever again in Scotland, because we're not complete nutjobs up here.

In what way is Johnson 'openly criminal'?

[Callum_62]

He was First Minister of Scotland for seven years, twice leader of Scotland's biggest political party and a long-serving Westminster MP. Fair to say he's occupied high office."was" totally irrelevant to the next PM

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[Mibbes Aye]

:tsk tsk: Bojoke doesn't beat people up. But he is happy to discuss having others beaten up.

I got it :agree: :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

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[Callum_62]

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