Great (balanced) discussion on Radio Scotland just now - if you're not listening to it, it's worth tuning in.
Printable View
Great (balanced) discussion on Radio Scotland just now - if you're not listening to it, it's worth tuning in.
The only trauma theyve suffered is not being 'top dog'Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
One body to run Scottish football, that`ll never work :whistle:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Ive a feeling all this is a hidden agenda to accommodate the Huns remaining in the top flight, A mean why now?.
It reeks of hun loving *******s from top to bottom!.
well whatever set up they come up with, if the stickies dinnae start at the bottom then it's :bye: :bye: Scottish fitba from me :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by HibbyAndy
:agree: And that's neither the SPL nor the SFL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
"let's just have 2 leagues, demote Der Hun and they can get back into the top flight within a year."..... what a load of bollox.
If you read between the lines of John Yorkston's comments on the situation, after having discussions with current SPL chairmen this week. The newco will not be voted into the league.
Are they wanting to make the top league an 18 team league, something they have battled against saying it wouldn't work?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by HibbyAndy
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Precisely:agree:
Funny that now they are looking into restructuring it eh:confused:
Having spoken to a friend who has worked for HMRC for about 15 years, a few points came up.
1. Rangers could have agreed to pay back all of their debts including the big tax case (ball park 80 Million total) in about 10 years, by using 10m per year of their approximate yearly 30M turnover. This of course would have reduced their wage bills and player quality. They CHOSE not to do this.
2. Liquidation should now result in Duff and Phelps being replaced by an HMRC appointed liquidator. Apparently the liquidator can scrap the Green purchase, and auction off Rangers assets, players, Stadium etc in order to get more than the 5.5 Million. In short Green doesn't have a leg to stand on if an objective liquidator carries out his/her job correctly.
3. HMRC should be in a position after liquidation to chase up individuals - i.e. David Murray to follow up the tax bill.
4. Green states that player contracts mean they have to stay with the club. My friends understanding of this is the opposite - which is to say that the newo is obliged to offer the same contracts - but the players are under no obligation to accept them. In essence the rules are there to prevent companies laying off staff without paying redundancy by changing into a new company.
All of this and other evidence points to - Green being either completely out of his depth and heading for a rude awakening, OR there is rather worrying amount of corruption of the rules to allow his 'scam' to succeed.
As a final aside, Rangers in my view should bite the bullet and get to the third division. The alternative of 10 years handicapped operating budget has been conveniently side stepped at the expense of the tax payer.
If they slide out of this, I hope there will be not only a fans walkout (which unfortunately probably hurts us not rangers), but a serious legal enquiry into the whole situation.
That's all fair comment. To answer your question re RFC's crimes, they have been found guilty of:Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
- Going into administration - Penalty 10 point deduction. This has been seen to be totally inadequate as RFC finished in the exact same position as they would have had the penalty not been applied. On the other hand, if Hibs had been guilty of the same crime they would have been relegated and all other non-OF clubs would have lost at least one place in the league. The inadequacy of the penalty is not RFC's fault however, and steps have been taken to change the penalties for the future.
- Bringing the game into disrepute/failure to pay taxes - there were multiple crimes here but the main advantage gained by RFC was cash availability over a period of 9 months that was greater than the combined annual turnover of the third and fourth biggest clubs in the league. That is, they had more money to pay players' wages through dishonest means alone than two of their three main competitors had between them. They will not be repaying that money. Penalty £160,000 fine (just over 1% of the amount misappropriated) - unpaid, plus a further sanction yet to be determined. They chose to challenge what was a reasonably light sanction in the civil courts.
- Failure to produce audited accounts by the required deadline - penalty disqualification from the forthcoming European Champions League. A further penalty of disqualification from Scottish competitions has not been applied.
- The new company that is seeking to take RFC's place in Scottish football is ineligible for European competitions for three seasons - that's not a penalty it's a fact of life.
- They stand accused of wilfully misleading the Scottish football authorities regarding the nature of players' payments but the new company is seeking to avoid any penalties for this, plus those at the second bullet point while retaining the old club's status within Scottish football.
Until the recent change in the rules there were no provisions for allowing a new club into the SPL - in fact there was a strong argument that the rules prohibited this - but at the very least they simply did not recognise the concept. Aside from the perception that the SFA and more particularly the SPL will be bending or breaking the rules to allow a Newco in, the real worry is that the Newco will escape the penalties incurred by the Oldco while retaining the Oldco's footballing benefits. There is a precedent for this situation, albeit not in the SPL. Gretna FC went the same way as the old Rangers FC and the club that took on their 'personality' has had to start at the bottom of the Scottish football food chain. Is there any sporting reason why the new Rangers FC should be treated any differently?
So Mr Regan taking charge by errrrm organising a few meetings . Oh yeah this is the decisive action we need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offside Trap
Sooner or later one or all sets of authorities will come up with the solution they need which is a punishment for Rangers that looks like a punishment but isn't really a punishment. Pat each other on the back, then carry on as normal and we'll all plod along behind like the good sheep we are.
To be fair I think that's the SPL rather than the SFA that have been saying that. The SPL management is consistently proving itself to be not fit for purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
I would take that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibbyAndy
And I claim the prize for the 12,000th post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Judging by a lot of comments on here and from fans of other clubs, that will not be the case. And quite right too.
Not sure about the punishments but, in football terms, they have bumped Rapid Vienna, Hearts, Dunfermline, Celtic, Dundee United, ICT, SFA and the SPL. They have also paid players through unauthorised and undeclared means which, given the testimony of B.Dodds esquire, amounts to some sort of dual contract as B.Dodds states that he recieved his wages from Rangers and from a non-EBT. While, as is frequently pointed out EBT's are legal, it is clear from Dodds statement that this was not an EBT. Dodds says he recieved his wages, after tax was deducted.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
All this was done to gain an unfair advantage over their rivals.
On a more serious note I think they are in serious danger of facing tax evasion charges, given that they were warned about their particular use of EBT's back in 2008. I also think the taxman will be knocking on a number of doors of both former employees and former directors, even current employees, to ask for an explanation of their tax returns and how they came by the funds they did, as cited by Mark Daly (BBC).
They should have paperwork to accompany these payments and I suspect they will also pass the buck right back to Rangers. Campbell Ogilvie, when you consider his involvement at HMFC on top of the now defunct RFC, is in an inceasingly difficult position. As others have pointed out, by the time the liquidators/taxman are finshed I strongly suspect there will be Police involvement and someone, perhaps a number of people, will be looking at a stay in the Big Hoose.
And thats just what we know.
Or alternatively Regan is fed up with Doncaster's inaction and is seeking to take accountability for sorting it out. I don't see many running to the front of the queue to grab this mess so the fact that Regan is looking to do so (and he knows is in a lose/lose situation and will get pelters whatever he does) should be welcomed. What (or more to the point who) is the alternative?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcarter1
The players had a contract with Glasgow Rangers, a company which doesn't exist anymore, therefore their contracts are now null and void. Yes they can offer the same contracts but these players will now be free agents and can move when ever they like.
Turning your general question right back at ya, can you provide any specific examples of witch hunting on here or in the general media?Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
I see regular accusations of witch hunting directed at Alex Thomson, but judge the accusers to be knuckledraggers (on account of their generally having usernames like queenandcountryexcepthector1690, etc).
This should be merged into the Big Huge Zombie Hun Thread of Fun but I just wanted to ask as the question got lost in the mire of that thread.
The RTC Blog suggests W H Smith (guess what the H stands for) was being paid money illegally from an EBT as manager of Rangers, Everton and possibly Scotland it seems to me he's probably guilty of some kind of underhandedness - so if so is he a fit and proper person to own a Scottish football club?
The announcement about lookingto make the SPL right down to SFL3 governed by one body could be to accommodate Rangers in division 3, 2 or 1. As I see it the SPL can only say Rangers are in the SPL or they are not. They cannot make the decision to allow them into any other division, so it may be that alligning all the dvisions into one body so that the SFA can make the decision to allow rangers into one of the leagues. They may also take this opportunity to increase the top league size so that thw like of spartans, gala etc can get a spot in the leagues and not be able to complain or take action if Rangers get kicked out and immediately allowed into SFL3.
IMO, there is no route for a new rangers to be allowed into the league apart from the SPL under the current structure. With the world watching the authorties need to make sure they are doing everything by the book, they cant be seen showing favouritism, so they will change things to make everyone happy - apart from Rangers if they start in division 3.
Hopefully Uefa will be keeping an eye on what the Hun apologists in the SFA/SPL try to doQuote:
Originally Posted by hibs13681
And what if the SPL simply say no? More sabre rattling by the SFA. They talked about doing this earlier on in the administration process to try and move things along, that worked, NOT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offside Trap
I like Mr Regan and feel his frustration and share his attitude to governance and the idea of one ruling body but the SPL(ie the clubs) are simply too powerful and won't roll over to get their tummy's tickled. I don't believe Mr Regan has others behind him within his organistion with the stomach or the nous to fight for this.
A restructure of the leagues with a bigger top league and newco rankgers starting off in the second tier will do for me.
I want to see der hun punished, but for better or worse they are Scotland's 1st or 2nd biggest club. Not all of their supporters are of the Billy boy knuckle dragging variety and at the end of the day should be given the chance of continuing to support their club.
What I wont accept is a newco in the top league ( whatever that consists of ) when next season kicks off.
Were Scotland's 1st or 2nd biggest club. I think when Hector, the SFA, the SPL, Strathclyde's finest, maybe UEFA/FIFA, etc. are finished with them, they may never return.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
I would have quoted that part of his post as well but my follow on would have been:Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
What the fek does that matter. Should we just lie down to them and the media because the big two have ruled the roost for 25 years.
BOVRIL, do you work in the scottish media as thats their viewpoint as well.
Ridiculous coming from a Hibs fan.
Bit harsh, DC, as I know a great many Scottish journalists and at least half of them think all their Christmases have come at once.Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_Hibs
only if the new company can be punished for the actions of an old company, which they should seeing as they're still profiting on cheating by keeping the badge, the name and their corrupt historyQuote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
Although they'll say 'we've been punished enough' especially when stripped of titles
Who the **** !!! was talking about lying down to them !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_Hibs
Read the rest of my posts on this or any other thread devoted to this subject, my opinion on the media's part in this sorry episode is crystal clear.
I was trying to be the voice of moderation here that was all. I get the impression that some people would like to see rangers out of business for good and nothing to replace them. I for one have massively enjoyed the few times I have seen Hibs pump them and I would like the opportunity to see it happen again, after they have taken what they deserve. And yes I actually do know a few rangers fans who are decent folk and I for one dont want to see them lose their club, the same as I would hope that when Hibs were on the brink fans of other clubs would ( at the time ) hope that for me.
I would tolerate them in an SPL 2 at the start of the next season, though I would prefer the 3rd division. But that doesnt mean I dont detest rangers arrogance, the simpering media and the unfortunately massive number of idiots who follow that club and their bull**** at ER and everywhere else.
My post was a reasonable one and is not in any way "rediculous" and to suggest ( as you appear to be doing ) that I am in any way some sort of hun or weegie media apologist is quite frankly bloody insulting.
Oh ... and I wasnt suggesting either that rangers should get special treatment due to the size of the club, they should get the same treatment as any other club in the same situation. But the fact remains that they are a large part of the economy of Scottish football, like it or not and once they have been properly punished we should take advantage of that. But not by letting them take advantage of us as they have in the past with their celtic bedfellows.
1) Which they can - and, I agree, most likely will. The titles are gone though. They can keep the badge, and put 40 stars on their shirt if it pleases them, but the history died with the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe breezy
2) They've been saying this for a while, but the surface hasn't been scratched (as has been discussed further up this thread and elswhere in the land of 'internet bampottery')
I hope you're right - there is a chance that Murray and Whyte go on trial for tax evasion whilst new 'the Rangers' are back quite soon but I think they will be severely weakened as transfer ban will be the least of their worriesQuote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
It looks like the league may get restructured to accommodate them but at the moment they are losing all their players and running out of time to have a football team in place for whatever league they're going to be in
I know. And it's deeply, deeply worrying.:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by joe breezy
yer one ootQuote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
CG has that distinction :wink:
Someone slipped a extra post in. It was 12000 when I posted it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
I blame the mods!
UEFA/FIFA will only get involved if the others dont do their job properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
I have always felt that we were watching a well laid plan unfold but I am beginning to think Hector has thrown an almighty spanner in the works. And he's not finished yet. Hopefully.
I came to a conclusion while arguing with a St Johnstone fan, who was adamant they must be kept in the SPL because anything else meant doom for us all (don't get me started).
This country is a joke.
Nowhere else would this even be a discussion point. The Italians relegated Juventus and hammer Milan for match fixing and relegated Fiorentina for going the newco route, the French relegated Monaco and the Swiss relegated 4 clubs from their top league for financial issues.
Yet here we are, with our media, politicians and other assorted hangers on clambering for a club that is, for me, guilty of FAR worse actions then I have read about ANY other club having committed, anywhere, ever, to get to carry on as if nothing has happened, and that we, apparently petty, small minded 'others' should be grateful?
I've crossed fully into being totally and utterly disgusted. Even if they end up in SFL3, the fact that we've even had this, as a discussion, is bad enough.
Anyone thought about writing directly to UEFA and FIFA about this situation, and the general feelings of Scottish fans about what is going on and the strong possibility of NewHuns being invited straight into the top league - having left a shameful legacy of debt, crime, tax-evasion and cheating. Not saying they'll sit up and take note of one letter, but anything that throws a spotlight what is going on here and the fears we all have for s stitch up (clearly against UEFA's mantra of "Fair Play") can't do any harm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
just like THE rangers, always blaming someone else :agree::greengrin
Remember that the French bust Marseilles to the Second Division in 1994 following match fixing allegations. They were the holders of the Champions' League the season before and by far the biggest club in France.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
They won promotion but got relegated again when further allegations came out and did not return to the top flight until 1996.
your questions regarding the crimes committed have been answered, so I don't need to repeat them.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
my post isn't a which hunt, and it's not hiding behind sporting integrity. It's about doing the right thing, and playing by the rules - pure and simple.
If the new owners want the history of the club then that's all well and good - but have to accept the good with the bad.
On the other hand, all the normal background employees at Huns RIP will have the right to transfer over to New Huns on the same conditions which will create a problem as, unless they are in the SPL , they won't be able to afford to pay all the admin staff, cleaners, groundstaff, youth coaches etc. Very few jobs out there at the moment, so those background employees on normal wages would be daft not to move over, even if only to secure redundancy payments.Quote:
Originally Posted by jc1
1. the old company does still exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by jc1
2. the employments can be transferred. The players are not free agents.
The contracts do transfer on the same terms but as it followed an insolvency event, the employees have to right to opt out.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
They can become free agents if they wish.
Yes, I agree. The default position is transfer, which is what I was disagreeing with the previous poster on. At present, they are not "free agents".Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
On that point, have the SPFA said anything?
On twitter...
Tom English @TomEnglishSport
Malcolm Murray in the Sunday papers talking about SPL clubs having a "suicide pact" if they keep Rangers out. Not one for mincing his words
Newco. New Chairman. Same old pi$h.
http://pfascotland.co.uk/2012/news/p...tupe-position/Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
They have certainly put out a statement that confirms the players rights to opt out. They clearly consulted employment lawyers.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18446597
Cheers for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
So no fait accompli yet. The players won't be sure they want to move until they know what League they're in. Seems sensible to me.
And the longer the uncertainty remains, the more likely they are to take an offer from someone else.
Lovely :greengrin
Source for latest bracketed info in headline? (fixture list)
So does nobody know what the real name of the new company is?Quote:
Originally Posted by CentreLine
TUPE was designed to stop new owners getting rid of the old staff, to protect them and make sure the new owners inherited them, their terms, length of service etc. This is the reverse situation. They cannot be forced to transfer but will have to opt out though don't know when/how they do it without reading the legislation. Odd thing is--how does Charles Green not know thisQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I'm sure he does know it, and will be doing his best to get the high-value players to stay. If he IS an asset-stripper, then it would make sense to offer those players inducements to transfer, with a promise to accept the first £xm offer that is made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuitdelune
2-3 situations like that, and he's made money.
SEVCO...come on man keep up..that was about 100 pages ago :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by CentreLine
That is true but why go on the telly making statements that are not correct, might fool the player but not the agent. I wondered whether fixed term employees/football players are different, though surely can't be so.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Not according to the SPFA's statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuitdelune
And of course must factor in that some of them would be 'feart' not to go in case they were not still with Rangers, The Rangers, Any Rangers...Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
But why would a high value player who was aware that he was going to be punted ofr a profit not simply opt out and negotiate as a free agent and have the transfer sum as a signing on fee.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The players who will be keen to move are those who would have problems finding a new club, at least on their current wages.
Let's face it the likes of Naismith, Whittakar, Wallace, and McGregor are not going to play Division Three. I expect they will be away as soon as the position is more clear.
If Rangers are due to be bumped they need to pretty well clear out most of the senior staff and will be reliant on the youth team.
Until such time as Green sells out, cash will be very short as there will be next to no season ticket money forthcoming so there may be no option.
Because he is an ignorant Yorkshire buffoon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuitdelune
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
Reading the article on the Bbc website about the sfa getting involved to restructure the leagues, they say they are doing it to distribute wealth better and stop the rangers situation happening again. Seems strange that because the rangers situation was sheer greed on their part, they weren't happy spending on par with Celtic and considerably more than the rest, so distributing wealth more fairly wont stop a team insisting to spend more than they can afford. I think they are just doing it to make sure they can let rangers back into one of the leagues.
I can't be the only person is sick and tired of the whole saga.
Yes Rangers are no more and they are replaced by The Rangers. This will run and run and run.
The thing that gets me in all of this and is rarely mentioned on here, by pundits, the media etc etc..... Is.....Rangers FC CAUSED this, they are FULLY ACCOUNTABLE for the mess and the disruption to the league, the other clubs, supporters and the image of Scottish Football.
Despite all this I have seen ZERO humility shown by anyone with any kind of association with RFC. David Murray, Craig Whyte, Charles Green, Ally McCoist, Sandy Jardine, Gordon Smith, Rangers Supporters Assxociations and every single rangers fan I have spoken to.
At best you get a 'I know we were in the wrong BUT *insert 101 excuse and blame of someone else*.
The irony for us is that we have run a tight ship for last 7 years or so much to the pain on the park. Now we need to rebuild our squad and I can't think anything other than Fenlons budget will be restricted by those fans including me who refuse to renew for next season while this rumbles on.
Really sad sad state of affairs when only two people who fans are giving credit to over last 4 months is Channel 4 journalist and blogger and BBC Panarama journalist.
Zombiehuns, for goodness sake keep up here;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by CentreLine
Only thing i can find is this.Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
http://sport.stv.tv/football/106461-...-fixture-list/
Which we're a lot less inclined to put up with now. So this tiresome arrogant chest-beating/threatening, might just be a gross miscalculation. I only hope that the SPL chairmen's responses are as unequivocal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bighoose
Rumour is that it willQuote:
Originally Posted by CentreLine
Taxus Rangers
Crazy really!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuitdelune
It was the Daily Telegraph I read it in. Quite a long article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9335076/Rangers-to-be-excluded-from-SPL-fixture-list.html
I was gonna drive up there and pee on the top but my missus wouldn't lend me her car :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibby Hippy
This sums up where they all think they are at -
"The club didn't die - it simply shed itself of all sorts of debts it could never pay in one fell swoop. The club is now debt free and will probably end up playing in the SPL next year: the club is stronger now than it has been for some time."
Laughable, but, sadly, the last two statements aren't too far off the mark.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-21751069/
Which is it Walter, Scottish football will die with or without you, i'm a little confused? :confused:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...sion-1-2359952
So we don't get a larger league and the newco drop 1 division debt free. Somehow it doesn't feel right.
At which point Livingston and the clubs that lost the SFL2 and 3 playoffs immediately launch legal action.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbyfrankie
Honestly, they have just about found a gap in the rules to justify weaselling them back into the SPL, but how the hell do they find a reason to put them in the first division? It's an utter nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbyfrankie
That is embarassing. Is there no end to the SFA/SPL corruption??
If they do this its just for Rangers to come back within a year - bending, completely changing rules for a dead football team
Sickening - every fan in Scotland (Sevco FC apart) need to stick together on this or the Scottish game is finished.
Have been Hearing strong Rumours that a consortium led by someone only identified as MR White, is to table a bid to buy Greece from majority shareholder Germany, Administrators Fudds an Helps have been put in place to take Greece into administration shortly after the sale. Greece will then be Liquidated. But a holding country, The Greece 2012 will buy the Acropolis, the Greek mainland and associated Islands. The Greek Citizens will then be able to Tupe Transfer to the new nation which will be debt free, and face no further sanctions. It is believed Mr Whites consortium have financed the deal by selling options on future Greek holidays to Tricketus travel and sports organizers.
I heard FaceBook is worth billions and Greece has sent a Friend Request.
I posted this on another thread on 13th June.
I would go a step further and suspend them for a minimum of 3, 4, 5, years for any newco, to close a loophole, that might exist, if they are be able to negotiate an entry into the SFL at division 1. They would stoop to any level to try and secure an early return to the SPL, by trying to "buy" a place in the first division. A fixed term suspension would prevent that.
This type of sanction must be included in any form of punishment. If there is a fast track merger of SPL and SFL, there must also be a fast track change of rules allowing a fixed term suspension if it does not exist already.
I found the following on the UK Government legislation website so this is an actual quote from The Law Of The Land:
(8) Subject to paragraphs (9) and (11), where an employee so objects, the relevant transfer shall operate so as to terminate his contract of employment with the transferor but he shall not be treated, for any purpose, as having been dismissed by the transferor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18460193
Has anyone seen this clip, two point i would like to make.
1) He looks like a drunk tramp.
2) He is your typical hun f***, arrogant, rude and stupid.
Nicked this from the comments but it sums everything up perfectly - email it to the club :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbyfrankie
The simple fact is that RFC (rip) were clearly guilty of a huge array of offences from willful avoidance of tax to the state, and what increasingly look like "illegal "parallel" contracts, failure to submit acc'ts etc etc...the list is a long one. In addition, as the aggrieved parties in all of this, other SPL clubs have been openly threatened with sanctions and boycotts (clearly supported by RFC and headed up by a well-known former player). Whatever else, the other SPL clubs DID NOT cause rangers demise, in spite of a voting system leaning heavily in the favour of the OF. In addition, we see on a daily basis many Rangers fans telling us in all manner of outlets that we in fact are the one's who are at Armageddon's door, with a "we can't survive without them" stance with varying degrees of bullishness and arrogance. Bottom line however is that, like a whole swaithe of Scottish fans I LOVE my football, but I DON'T love it enough that I'd be willing to overlook these Rangers offences, nor would I be prepared to continue to support MY club were it to show such invisible backbone and lack of any sense of fair play and integrity that would allow them to even CONSIDER voting other than to see any "newco" in the leagues at anything above the third division...which frankly i see as a truly miniscule sentence in the circumstances. We then get to "what will SPL chairmen do??". Well, that's a matter for them of course, and they will surely do what THEY think is best for THEIR clubs,,,,,,but it is encumbent on EVERY SPL fan outside the defunct RFC to lobby HIS club and make HIS views known, as I have already done...and frankly I simply will NEVER return to the club I LOVE if they surrender any pretence to integrity. We ALL have to come through hard economic times on occasions, but it's a very moot point indeed whether any SPL chairman will consider that, in order to have ONE Rangers fan attend his home match, he might (and often WILL) lose a number of his OWN core fans who attend EVERY game...and that's why the simple "we'll lose the money from Rangers fans" simply isn't credible. What IS the point of pandering to a Rangers fan group who visit once (at best twice) a year??? ...which incidentally (I've looked at the figures) means that a home visit by Rangers means an increase in the average gate of some 2,000 additional (presumably Rangers) fans , and while it's true that the club would not WISH to lose that revenue, it's hardly terminal, as the Ibrox spin would have it. Finally, even Rangers fans must query the system whereby the "accused"is allowed to effectively sit in the jury room with the jury as they deliberate a verdict, and are EVEN ALLOWED A VOTE ON THAT VERDICT. The whole CONCEPT of such a system is more redolent of the ideas of democracy in the old Soviet bloc or in Mugabe's Zimbabwe rather than in the modern, progressive democrac that we all hope to be. Time for Rangers fans to cast off the denial...the Armageddon is HERE...they need to face the TRUTH in all it's painful ...and shameful...aspects and it is only through such conversion that there is ANY CHANCE WHATEVER that their rehabilitation can even begin.
A few comments in green up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
I think you're right that we need to separate the wheat from the chaff in these debates. There's a lot of bluster emanating from both sides now and some on here now appear to be arguing that Rangers should be punished purely for being Rangers. That's not helped by them attempting to avoid responsibilities for their crimes, but it could become counter-productive because it provides them with a blanket defence.
On the other hand we must not allow second-rate journalists such as Traynor and Young to cloud the issue with their campaign of misinformation either.
Apologies if this has been posted before, but I've not seen it mentioned in any other news media. It seems that Ally McCoist has some questions to answer:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/327062?
Quote:
...it was disclosed that the SFA are going to charge him over his outburst in April when he demanded to know the names of the members of the SFA’s Independent Judicial Panel.
One thing this episode has done is show the likes of traynor their true light, and they are nowhere near being as good as second rate. They are found wanting in almost every aspect of journalistic expertise; a better description would be to call them ignorant arrogant bigots with a keyboard who sadly got lucky due to them living in a country where there is an unlimited demand for the dross they supply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
I've said a few times now that the issue is not as complicated as some are determined to make it appear - either newco is a continuation of oldco or it isn't. RFC must take all the consequences from whichever way it is construed.
Cav this is they key and something i have argued...make it complicated..bit of smoke and mirrors and everyone loses sight of core simple issue...
Is it Rangers FC...with all its history (good and bad) in which case the appelaite tribunal needs to conclude and issue punishment (suspension / removal of licence) and SPL need to conclude dual contract investigation and act on that
or is it SEVCO FC (trading as TRFC) a brand new new football club and company, in which case there is no route to SPL other than by starting at bottong (like Gretna) and working your way up the structure).
what those in Govan are trying to do is like a career criminal changing their name by deed poll and then claiming they have no previous convictions:rolleyes:
I think thats a pretty fair assessment to be honest. The outcomes of the various investigations are where things get slightly muddy for me. I am not sure I trust the SFA/SPL to dish out the appropriate punishment. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
We hate Se..eh..eh..eh..ev.co
We hate Cel.........................nope, it doesn't really work. We need a few new songs
According to the sunday mail Rod Petrie
met Green in an Edinburgh hotel on Friday?
I thought Rod was at Euro 2012 as he couldn't attend fans meeting at the Hibs club on Saturday?
Someone is wrong.
How dud meeting go by the way?
As of now can we please stop referring to "Newco" and "Rangers" but simply refer to the new company that wishes entry to the SPL as SEVCO?
Clearly there is no such football club as Rangers or The Rangers. We are all aware of how important it was for the club that was Rangers to stick strictly to the rules. So it has to be SEVCO from now on. Or at best "SEVCO trading as The Rangers"
Pedantic outburst over
Rod is omnipresent, on Friday he was meeting Green, at Stewart Milnes house in Gleneagles and at Euro 2012, he was probably at Easter Road signing new players too, also Rod rhymes with God which could account for his supernatural powersQuote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hart RIP
Being precisely pedantic, you mean Sevco 5088? There are a lot of Sevcos.
As an aside, I'm slightly surprised this wasn't registered as a Scottish company.
Funny that. I thought that when they started their investigation into contract irregularities that they wrote to all teams in the Scottish leagues in an attempt to indicate that this was not just about R*ngers but was an investigation across all clubs?Quote:
Originally Posted by s.a.m
Now all of a sudden they've halted the investigation because there's uncertainty about the status of one of the clubs?
They seem to change their tune according to which way the wind is blowing...
We hated Glasgow RangersQuote:
Originally Posted by CentreLine
We will hate Sevco too
And we hate Hearts and Celtic
But the Hibees we love you.
Altogether now...
:flag:
When this sorry sorry mess is resolved and the punishment comes out, Doncaster has to go. Zero leadership, zero consistency, zero confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
A suicide pact? Surely that's the existing arrangement? A league that exists to give two teams somewhere to play until the English see sense and let them into the Premiership.
Suicide is to keep going the way we are.
Would love to have a body language expert analyse that, fidgeting, looking away, touching his face, is that not all the classic traits of someone who's lying through his teethQuote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
This doesn't seem to have been posted here yet. Looks like the rumours of Rod meeting Green are true. Also it says that the Gang of 10 had a meeting on Friday. Pressure's building...
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/06...6908-23897099/
(Sorry about linking to the DR). Here's the text:
Quote:
Rangers in crisis: Charles Green starts his charm offensive to win the votes for SPL survival
CHARLES GREEN has started his charm offensive to win the votes Rangers need to stay in the SPL.
MailSport can reveal the new Ibrox owner met with Hibs supremo Rod Petrie at an Edinburgh hotel on Friday afternoon.
Petrie is a powerful player in the SPL’s “Gang of 10” and a major influence on the other clubs. That is why Green was advised to kick off his campaign by meeting the Hibees chairman.
Green, who will have a vote himself on Gers’ future SPL status at a general meeting next month, requires seven votes from the 11 other clubs to keep their top-flight status.
But MailSport understands he would fall short of that number at the moment.
It’s also believed that, as of last night, Rangers have not yet submitted a formal application to the SPL for a transfer of share to the newco.
That’s something the SPL board must have in their hands by the time they meet on Monday before they can call a general meeting, giving 14 days’ notice, for all clubs to vote.
They are now expecting Green to rush this through tomorrow morning – at which point the Yorkshireman will step up his bid to win over the other teams.
Those negotiations will include the potential of adding Rangers’ weight to a change of the SPL voting structure – away from the Old Firm-dominated 11-1 set-up – and a fairer distribution of TV, sponsorship and bonus money.
Rangers’ desperation to remain in the SPL looks certain to end the 14-year, hand-in-hand arrangement they’ve had with Celtic to dominate the SPL and veto plans which didn’t suit their agendas.
It’s understood Green has met with Hoops chief executive Peter Lawwell but there are no plans for further discussions at this stage.
The Gang of 10 also met on Friday to discuss the best way forward for them.
MailSport can reveal that representatives of all the clubs – except Celtic, who did know about the meeting – convened at Aberdeen owner Stewart Milne’s home in Gleneagles to discuss the Rangers situation.
There will be at least one more meeting between them before the vote on a newco Rangers takes place next month.
Meanwhile, claims that the SFA are set to railroad through an immediate merger between the SPL and SFL in time for next season look far-fetched.
The SFA have always been in favour of one league set-up – as well as a better distribution of income and a pyramid system – since their Professional Game Board started looking at plans for reconstruction a year ago.
However, our sources insist that the likelihood of them finding a solution to suit all parties within the next month are unlikely.
Only in Scotland could 10 clubs out of 12 be made to sound like a minority. "The Gang of 10", that's not a faction that's the top division. The longer this goes on, the more I am convinced we must break away from the Glasgow dominated hegemony.
I really don't understand why sevco should think them supporting a change to the 11:1 voting structure is a card they have to play. Given that it is only the OF who now support 11:1, any decision which sees sevco not allowed into the SPL can quickly be followed by another vote of SPL members in which celtc can vote to retain it and the rest of the clubs can support the change to e.g. 8:4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
I agree, China has nearly 1.5 billion people and they only had a " gang of four"!
Theres no ******g danger Greeny boy would be allowed anywhere near the Capital with the 80s style suits he wearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hart RIP
http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=878312
Football club defunct, so we now have this as an (renewed) alternative. It's a wee bit creepy.