Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[ac1]

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http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...sion-1-2359952

So we don't get a larger league and the newco drop 1 division debt free. Somehow it doesn't feel right.

That is embarassing. Is there no end to the SFA/SPL corruption??

If they do this its just for Rangers to come back within a year - bending, completely changing rules for a dead football team

Sickening - every fan in Scotland (Sevco FC apart) need to stick together on this or the Scottish game is finished.

[Sunny1875]

Have been Hearing strong Rumours that a consortium led by someone only identified as MR White, is to table a bid to buy Greece from majority shareholder Germany, Administrators Fudds an Helps have been put in place to take Greece into administration shortly after the sale. Greece will then be Liquidated. But a holding country, The Greece 2012 will buy the Acropolis, the Greek mainland and associated Islands. The Greek Citizens will then be able to Tupe Transfer to the new nation which will be debt free, and face no further sanctions. It is believed Mr Whites consortium have financed the deal by selling options on future Greek holidays to Tricketus travel and sports organizers.

[IWasThere2016]

I heard FaceBook is worth billions and Greece has sent a Friend Request.

[Hibs07p]

I posted this on another thread on 13th June.

I would go a step further and suspend them for a minimum of 3, 4, 5, years for any newco, to close a loophole, that might exist, if they are be able to negotiate an entry into the SFL at division 1. They would stoop to any level to try and secure an early return to the SPL, by trying to "buy" a place in the first division. A fixed term suspension would prevent that.

This type of sanction must be included in any form of punishment. If there is a fast track merger of SPL and SFL, there must also be a fast track change of rules allowing a fixed term suspension if it does not exist already.

[Lungo--Drom]

I found the following on the UK Government legislation website so this is an actual quote from The Law Of The Land:

(8) Subject to paragraphs (9) and (11), where an employee so objects, the relevant transfer shall operate so as to terminate his contract of employment with the transferor but he shall not be treated, for any purpose, as having been dismissed by the transferor.

[stokesmessiah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18460193

Has anyone seen this clip, two point i would like to make.

1) He looks like a drunk tramp.
2) He is your typical hun f***, arrogant, rude and stupid.

[BroxburnHibee]

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http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...sion-1-2359952

So we don't get a larger league and the newco drop 1 division debt free. Somehow it doesn't feel right.

Nicked this from the comments but it sums everything up perfectly - email it to the club

The simple fact is that RFC (rip) were clearly guilty of a huge array of offences from willful avoidance of tax to the state, and what increasingly look like "illegal "parallel" contracts, failure to submit acc'ts etc etc...the list is a long one. In addition, as the aggrieved parties in all of this, other SPL clubs have been openly threatened with sanctions and boycotts (clearly supported by RFC and headed up by a well-known former player). Whatever else, the other SPL clubs DID NOT cause rangers demise, in spite of a voting system leaning heavily in the favour of the OF. In addition, we see on a daily basis many Rangers fans telling us in all manner of outlets that we in fact are the one's who are at Armageddon's door, with a "we can't survive without them" stance with varying degrees of bullishness and arrogance. Bottom line however is that, like a whole swaithe of Scottish fans I LOVE my football, but I DON'T love it enough that I'd be willing to overlook these Rangers offences, nor would I be prepared to continue to support MY club were it to show such invisible backbone and lack of any sense of fair play and integrity that would allow them to even CONSIDER voting other than to see any "newco" in the leagues at anything above the third division...which frankly i see as a truly miniscule sentence in the circumstances. We then get to "what will SPL chairmen do??". Well, that's a matter for them of course, and they will surely do what THEY think is best for THEIR clubs,,,,,,but it is encumbent on EVERY SPL fan outside the defunct RFC to lobby HIS club and make HIS views known, as I have already done...and frankly I simply will NEVER return to the club I LOVE if they surrender any pretence to integrity. We ALL have to come through hard economic times on occasions, but it's a very moot point indeed whether any SPL chairman will consider that, in order to have ONE Rangers fan attend his home match, he might (and often WILL) lose a number of his OWN core fans who attend EVERY game...and that's why the simple "we'll lose the money from Rangers fans" simply isn't credible. What IS the point of pandering to a Rangers fan group who visit once (at best twice) a year??? ...which incidentally (I've looked at the figures) means that a home visit by Rangers means an increase in the average gate of some 2,000 additional (presumably Rangers) fans , and while it's true that the club would not WISH to lose that revenue, it's hardly terminal, as the Ibrox spin would have it. Finally, even Rangers fans must query the system whereby the "accused"is allowed to effectively sit in the jury room with the jury as they deliberate a verdict, and are EVEN ALLOWED A VOTE ON THAT VERDICT. The whole CONCEPT of such a system is more redolent of the ideas of democracy in the old Soviet bloc or in Mugabe's Zimbabwe rather than in the modern, progressive democrac that we all hope to be. Time for Rangers fans to cast off the denial...the Armageddon is HERE...they need to face the TRUTH in all it's painful ...and shameful...aspects and it is only through such conversion that there is ANY CHANCE WHATEVER that their rehabilitation can even begin.

[Caversham Green]

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Good reply, Thanks for that.
The first bullet point really ends after the bit in bold. The impact of the points deduction has never been taken into account so it is correct as things stand. Agreed, the second bit is just my commentary on the issue
The second bullet point, the bringing the game into disrepute charge was poorly judged but it needed hindsight to recognise this. The issue now will be can the disrepute charge be applied to the new company. If Rangers are allowed to continue in the SPL I would hope the charges would then be able to be applied which may result in expulsion. I don't think the charge was poorly judged - they were found guilty by two independent panels and the civil court in no way criticised it. The decision by the civil court that the punishment was not available remains debatable in the absence of an appeal, but the fact that RFC chose to take the matter outwith the sport attacks the basic principle that all sports should be self-regulating.
The failure to pay taxes resulted in the appointment of administrators as a penalty. I would argue that administration and non-payment of taxes are two separate (albeit connected) issues. In any case, iy RFC themselves who eventually appointed the administrators - their choice to seek to avoid their debts.
Third bullet point, I wasn't aware of the possible Scottish sanctions, cheers for the heads up, their should be an explanation on how the decision was reached.
Fourth bullet point

Fifth, A major headache for the SPL but they will have to work out a black and white answer, Sanctions against old company cannot be applied to new company = No route into SPL as with any other new application. I've said a few times now that the issue is not as complicated as some are determined to make it appear - either newco is a continuation of oldco or it isn't. RFC must take all the consequences from whichever way it is construed.
Sanctions against old company can be applied to new company, Allow new company to join SPL but expel as a result of past crimes.
This has implications for any other club facing financial problems and liquidation in particular.

The last bit? There is no sporting reason, or other reason, to treat Rangers differently. This is an absolute major point and we have to make sure we aren't making things up to punish them differently because they will challenge again and win if we stray from the facts and work outwith the bounds of what the SPL can do, that would be a breach of sporting integrity.

If we stick to the facts, keep the proven rule breaches in the spotlight no one can be accused of a witch hunt. The truth will out.

A few comments in green up there.

I think you're right that we need to separate the wheat from the chaff in these debates. There's a lot of bluster emanating from both sides now and some on here now appear to be arguing that Rangers should be punished purely for being Rangers. That's not helped by them attempting to avoid responsibilities for their crimes, but it could become counter-productive because it provides them with a blanket defence.

On the other hand we must not allow second-rate journalists such as Traynor and Young to cloud the issue with their campaign of misinformation either.

[grunt]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but I've not seen it mentioned in any other news media. It seems that Ally McCoist has some questions to answer:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/327062?

...it was disclosed that the SFA are going to charge him over his outburst in April when he demanded to know the names of the members of the SFA’s Independent Judicial Panel.

[Hibs Class]

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A few comments in green up there.

I think you're right that we need to separate the wheat from the chaff in these debates. There's a lot of bluster emanating from both sides now and some on here now appear to be arguing that Rangers should be punished purely for being Rangers. That's not helped by them attempting to avoid responsibilities for their crimes, but it could become counter-productive because it provides them with a blanket defence.

On the other hand we must not allow second-rate journalists such as Traynor and Young to cloud the issue with their campaign of misinformation either.

One thing this episode has done is show the likes of traynor their true light, and they are nowhere near being as good as second rate. They are found wanting in almost every aspect of journalistic expertise; a better description would be to call them ignorant arrogant bigots with a keyboard who sadly got lucky due to them living in a country where there is an unlimited demand for the dross they supply.

[down-the-slope]

I've said a few times now that the issue is not as complicated as some are determined to make it appear - either newco is a continuation of oldco or it isn't. RFC must take all the consequences from whichever way it is construed.


Cav this is they key and something i have argued...make it complicated..bit of smoke and mirrors and everyone loses sight of core simple issue...

Is it Rangers FC...with all its history (good and bad) in which case the appelaite tribunal needs to conclude and issue punishment (suspension / removal of licence) and SPL need to conclude dual contract investigation and act on that

or is it SEVCO FC (trading as TRFC) a brand new new football club and company, in which case there is no route to SPL other than by starting at bottong (like Gretna) and working your way up the structure).


what those in Govan are trying to do is like a career criminal changing their name by deed poll and then claiming they have no previous convictions

[Darth Hibbie]

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I've said a few times now that the issue is not as complicated as some are determined to make it appear - either newco is a continuation of oldco or it isn't. RFC must take all the consequences from whichever way it is construed.


Cav this is they key and something i have argued...make it complicated..bit of smoke and mirrors and everyone loses sight of core simple issue...

Is it Rangers FC...with all its history (good and bad) in which case the appelaite tribunal needs to conclude and issue punishment (suspension / removal of licence) and SPL need to conclude dual contract investigation and act on that

or is it SEVCO FC (trading as TRFC) a brand new new football club and company, in which case there is no route to SPL other than by starting at bottong (like Gretna) and working your way up the structure).


what those in Govan are trying to do is like a career criminal changing their name by deed poll and then claiming they have no previous convictions

I think thats a pretty fair assessment to be honest. The outcomes of the various investigations are where things get slightly muddy for me. I am not sure I trust the SFA/SPL to dish out the appropriate punishment. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.

[CentreLine]

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SEVCO...come on man keep up..that was about 100 pages ago

We hate Se..eh..eh..eh..ev.co
We hate Cel.........................nope, it doesn't really work. We need a few new songs

[Tom Hart RIP]

According to the sunday mail Rod Petrie
met Green in an Edinburgh hotel on Friday?
I thought Rod was at Euro 2012 as he couldn't attend fans meeting at the Hibs club on Saturday?
Someone is wrong.
How dud meeting go by the way?

[CentreLine]

As of now can we please stop referring to "Newco" and "Rangers" but simply refer to the new company that wishes entry to the SPL as SEVCO?

Clearly there is no such football club as Rangers or The Rangers. We are all aware of how important it was for the club that was Rangers to stick strictly to the rules. So it has to be SEVCO from now on. Or at best "SEVCO trading as The Rangers"

Pedantic outburst over

[Mon Dieu4]

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According to the sunday mail Rod Petrie
met Green in an Edinburgh hotel on Friday?
I thought Rod was at Euro 2012 as he couldn't attend fans meeting at the Hibs club on Saturday?
Someone is wrong.
How dud meeting go by the way?

Rod is omnipresent, on Friday he was meeting Green, at Stewart Milnes house in Gleneagles and at Euro 2012, he was probably at Easter Road signing new players too, also Rod rhymes with God which could account for his supernatural powers

[Eyrie]

Being precisely pedantic, you mean Sevco 5088? There are a lot of Sevcos.

As an aside, I'm slightly surprised this wasn't registered as a Scottish company.

[grunt]

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Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug#SPL investigation into possible dual contracts at #Rangers to be put on hold until there's clarity over newco accountability. #BBCSport

Funny that. I thought that when they started their investigation into contract irregularities that they wrote to all teams in the Scottish leagues in an attempt to indicate that this was not just about R*ngers but was an investigation across all clubs?

Now all of a sudden they've halted the investigation because there's uncertainty about the status of one of the clubs?

They seem to change their tune according to which way the wind is blowing...

[Hal Jordan]

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We hate Se..eh..eh..eh..ev.co
We hate Cel.........................nope, it doesn't really work. We need a few new songs

We hated Glasgow Rangers
We will hate Sevco too
And we hate Hearts and Celtic
But the Hibees we love you.
Altogether now...

[Col2]

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Funny that. I thought that when they started their investigation into contract irregularities that they wrote to all teams in the Scottish leagues in an attempt to indicate that this was not just about R*ngers but was an investigation across all clubs?

Now all of a sudden they've halted the investigation because there's uncertainty about the status of one of the clubs?

They seem to change their tune according to which way the wind is blowing...

When this sorry sorry mess is resolved and the punishment comes out, Doncaster has to go. Zero leadership, zero consistency, zero confidence.

[Phil D. Rolls]

A suicide pact? Surely that's the existing arrangement? A league that exists to give two teams somewhere to play until the English see sense and let them into the Premiership.

Suicide is to keep going the way we are.

[jane_says]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18460193

Has anyone seen this clip, two point i would like to make.

1) He looks like a drunk tramp.
2) He is your typical hun f***, arrogant, rude and stupid.

Would love to have a body language expert analyse that, fidgeting, looking away, touching his face, is that not all the classic traits of someone who's lying through his teeth

[grunt]

This doesn't seem to have been posted here yet. Looks like the rumours of Rod meeting Green are true. Also it says that the Gang of 10 had a meeting on Friday. Pressure's building...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/06...6908-23897099/

(Sorry about linking to the DR). Here's the text:

Rangers in crisis: Charles Green starts his charm offensive to win the votes for SPL survival
CHARLES GREEN has started his charm offensive to win the votes Rangers need to stay in the SPL.
MailSport can reveal the new Ibrox owner met with Hibs supremo Rod Petrie at an Edinburgh hotel on Friday afternoon.
Petrie is a powerful player in the SPL’s “Gang of 10” and a major influence on the other clubs. That is why Green was advised to kick off his campaign by meeting the Hibees chairman.
Green, who will have a vote himself on Gers’ future SPL status at a general meeting next month, requires seven votes from the 11 other clubs to keep their top-flight status.
But MailSport understands he would fall short of that number at the moment.
It’s also believed that, as of last night, Rangers have not yet submitted a formal application to the SPL for a transfer of share to the newco.
That’s something the SPL board must have in their hands by the time they meet on Monday before they can call a general meeting, giving 14 days’ notice, for all clubs to vote.
They are now expecting Green to rush this through tomorrow morning – at which point the Yorkshireman will step up his bid to win over the other teams.
Those negotiations will include the potential of adding Rangers’ weight to a change of the SPL voting structure – away from the Old Firm-dominated 11-1 set-up – and a fairer distribution of TV, sponsorship and bonus money.
Rangers’ desperation to remain in the SPL looks certain to end the 14-year, hand-in-hand arrangement they’ve had with Celtic to dominate the SPL and veto plans which didn’t suit their agendas.
It’s understood Green has met with Hoops chief executive Peter Lawwell but there are no plans for further discussions at this stage.
The Gang of 10 also met on Friday to discuss the best way forward for them.
MailSport can reveal that representatives of all the clubs – except Celtic, who did know about the meeting – convened at Aberdeen owner Stewart Milne’s home in Gleneagles to discuss the Rangers situation.
There will be at least one more meeting between them before the vote on a newco Rangers takes place next month.
Meanwhile, claims that the SFA are set to railroad through an immediate merger between the SPL and SFL in time for next season look far-fetched.
The SFA have always been in favour of one league set-up – as well as a better distribution of income and a pyramid system – since their Professional Game Board started looking at plans for reconstruction a year ago.
However, our sources insist that the likelihood of them finding a solution to suit all parties within the next month are unlikely.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Only in Scotland could 10 clubs out of 12 be made to sound like a minority. "The Gang of 10", that's not a faction that's the top division. The longer this goes on, the more I am convinced we must break away from the Glasgow dominated hegemony.

[Hibs Class]

I really don't understand why sevco should think them supporting a change to the 11:1 voting structure is a card they have to play. Given that it is only the OF who now support 11:1, any decision which sees sevco not allowed into the SPL can quickly be followed by another vote of SPL members in which celtc can vote to retain it and the rest of the clubs can support the change to e.g. 8:4

[TrickyNicky]

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Only in Scotland could 10 clubs out of 12 be made to sound like a minority. "The Gang of 10", that's not a faction that's the top division. The longer this goes on, the more I am convinced we must break away from the Glasgow dominated hegemony.

I agree, China has nearly 1.5 billion people and they only had a " gang of four"!

[Moody Mulder]

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According to the sunday mail Rod Petrie
met Green in an Edinburgh hotel on Friday?
I thought Rod was at Euro 2012 as he couldn't attend fans meeting at the Hibs club on Saturday?
Someone is wrong.
How dud meeting go by the way?

Theres no ******g danger Greeny boy would be allowed anywhere near the Capital with the 80s style suits he wears

[magpie1892]

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=878312

Football club defunct, so we now have this as an (renewed) alternative. It's a wee bit creepy.

[The Green Goblin]

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Only in Scotland could 10 clubs out of 12 be made to sound like a minority. "The Gang of 10", that's not a faction that's the top division. The longer this goes on, the more I am convinced we must break away from the Glasgow dominated hegemony.

That's how I saw it too. The word "gang" also has various negative implications: unruly, disorganised, rebellious, a threat, lacking in structure and quality, unpredictable, outside the law/rules and so on.

How dare they meet up without the big two's permission/blessing etc.

[hibs0666]

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http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=878312

Football club defunct, so we now have this as an (renewed) alternative. It's a wee bit creepy.

What does it say?