Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Leithenhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Of course they're going to escape it. This new born 'love in ' for come-back kid Smith has strengthened their resolve and their attitude now is ' we're putting all the cr@p and bad guys behind us; our and your old pal Watty has ridden into town with the cavalry so let bygones be bygones and welcome us back with open arms.' My fear is that all the weak, greedy and wavering CEO's will fall off the fence on the Rangers's side.

I'm no buying that...

With FB, Twitter, Hibs.Net and the likes they can't get out this one. If Ernie Walker was still at the SFA then that would be a whole different story. It would have been brushed under the carpet in a "blink of an eye"

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Cheers PH, that solves that question. Another Rangers sell off from the last few years I guess. Wonder how much rent they get although I suppose it just goes towards the stewarding bill. It would be amusing if G4S were moving to new premises...

G4S have lost £295k in the Rangers liquidation - I doubt they'll be on the best of terms.

[Kaiser1962]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's kinda my point - although I was offering an alternative interpretation rather than arguing the case. Newhun are in a position that they can refuse to accept punishment for the transgressions of Oldhun - they've already shown that they're not above going to the civil courts for a ruling on football matters - so the SPL would be wasting time and money investigating the hidden contracts issue if there's no-one there to take the punishment. They, and the SFA, need to have an acceptance by Newhun of Oldhun's liabilities (moral rather than financial) wrapped up tight before they can continue with the investigation.

I see from Andy74's post that Newhun seem unwilling to accept responsibility, so that should make the SPL's decision for them. No hidden contracts investigation unless they want to charge individuals, the Rangers FC that played in the SPL last season is no longer a football club so there's a vacancy in the SPL for another club. The new Rangers FC do not meet the criteria required for the SPL because they're a brand new company that has yet to play any football, so they should not be considered and other applicants should be considered on their merits.

I bet they don't make it that simple though.

The SFA's own rules would suggest that they cant accept Newhun in Oldhun's place particularly, as Andy pointed out, Green is having no truck with what went on before his stewardship, which he is entitled to do. However he cant then pick up where Oldhun left off, in football terms, while at the same time abdicating responsibilty, in legal terms, for what preceded him.

If he wishes to continue in the higher leagues in Scotland then he has to accept that the governing body can investigate, and punish, for past misdeeds. If he does not want to do that then he should apply to the SFA to join the league structure, starting , as already pointed out, with the West of Scotland Central District Div 2. Then other senior clubs can apply for the vacant position in th SFL, as happened when Gretna ceased to be. They are now Gretna (2008) and playing in the East of Scotland premier division. All honours start from 2008, all previous honours are wiped and remain with Gretna FC which dissolved in 2008.

Rangers can have their ground, their strip and (part of) their name but they start again at the very bottom and work their way up whilst waiting for a vacancy in the SFL. They have lost their history, their titles and their cups. They gambled and lost. IMO there is no decision to make in a football sense (they do meet any of the required criteria to remain in either the SPL or the SFL) and the only thing left is for Hector to pursue, and jail, the embezzlers who have cheated the taxpayer (and others) out of millions.

[John_the_angus_hibby]

It's beginning to sound to me that the corpse is at last dead and all we are seeing is it twitching, vultures arguing over which bit and people positioning to avoid being the one that is implicated in its death.

[Dave-O]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I still unconvinced that they were included, and Cav is on the fence.

Wouldn't it be funny, though, if Waldo et al bought what Green has... only to find out the properties are still in RFC?

.....I think uncle wattie and his cohorts where as stunned as we where when he seen what green got for his dough, I hope green turns it over quickly to wattie and gets out with a big wedge before BDO cotton on and say "HOLD ON A WEE MINUTE, THERE'S BEEN A CLERICAL ERROR AND THE PROPERTIES AREN'T INCLUDED IN THE SALE"....

[John_the_angus_hibby]

...and a couple of twats in blue blazers trying desperate final but too late mouth to mouth and some bloke pointing saying "its just sleeping, look it moved" as he kicks it.

Now we can just focus on signings nd pre season!

[Bighoose]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ok MR Murray thats your legal right but now you cant transfer any SPL share.

You cant play in the SPL you don't qualify.

What punishment you don't meet EUFA License criteria it's not a ban. You haven't won any points to be deducted. Your a week old there is no turmoil.

We have moved on as per my previous answers but again you don't qualify for SPL.

IMHO of course

Would be nice if at least one the journalists listening to this crap could put them straight on their "Euro ban".

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I could be wrong but this has puzzled me too, could it be as simple as nobody realising that all the properties where included in the 5.5mil , I'm sure cav said they weren't on the original paperwork.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I still unconvinced that they were included, and Cav is on the fence.

Wouldn't it be funny, though, if Waldo et al bought what Green has... only to find out the properties are still in RFC?

I've had a reply from Paul McConville now - he reckons the properties are included in the £5.5m despite what the EOS says, mainly because it wouldn't make a lot of sense from Green's point of view to leave them with the Oldco. That's one of the reasons I had my doubts as well, but I'm still happy up here on the fence.

[Sylar]

Have any journalists bothered picking up on the fact that they're not eligible for a license and that any readmission would contravene the SFA rules?

Also, can anyone explain to me why this particular vote for their re-entry is not working on the 11-1 principal?

[theonlywayisup]

Is there a prize for whoever posts the 12,000th post on this thread?

[StevieC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From today's BBC Gossip page:

A newco Rangers could be offered a route into the First Division next season as part of a radical overhaul of the Scottish game. (Daily Record)
The Walter Smith-led consortium will launch a takeover bid for the new Rangers in the next 48 hours. (Sun)
Mike McDonald, a business partner of new Rangers chief executive Charles Green, says the Walter Smith-led consortium is just one of three parties to express an interest in buying out the assets of the club. (Daily Mail)

The Daily Record will say whatever they think is the best for RFC. They're probably coming round to the fact that there is little or no chance of them getting into the SPL so will now try to implant the next best scenario into the heads of its readers.

The best way that WS can gain the upper hand is to question the D&P sale to Green through the courts.

If there are now 4 consortiums interested then the creditors should step in, overturn the original sale and auction the club off.

[poolman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From today's Scotsman:

"(Malcolm) Murray is hopeful, however, and believes that because it is a newco, it should not be punished for old misdemeanours.

“At the moment the biggest issue is what league we’ll play in. I’d much rather we were playing in the SPL.

“I think Rangers have had giant punishments already – a European ban, a ten-point deduction, the emotional trauma everyone has suffered.

“I think for the good of Scottish football it’s much better that Rangers are in the SPL. For everyone’s sake we should forget the sins of a few people in the past and move on.”

Oldco or newco, these lowlifes know no shame. July 2nd could be the date for the SPL newco vote. Bombard Petrie and the board telling him that only a NO vote will mean you return to Easter Road.

Bloody hell

The Arrogance is mind-boggling

I'ts like getting caught commiting an armed robbery at a bank then saying "sorry, I promise if you let me off I'll not do it again"

Hate them

[Kaiser1962]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've had a reply from Paul McConville now - he reckons the properties are included in the £5.5m despite what the EOS says, mainly because it wouldn't make a lot of sense from Green's point of view to leave them with the Oldco. That's one of the reasons I had my doubts as well, but I'm still happy up here on the fence.

If that's the case then the EOS was innacurate, does that affect its valdity? If there has been a "clerical error" that cant be reversed then can D+P be held liable? Is a coincidence that you and Charles Green have the same initials?

Three quick ones there Cav.

Whatever happens I do not imagine that Duff and Phelps have done anything other than damage their reputation and I cant imagine the two amigo's will have endeared themselves to their paymasters.

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'ts like getting caught commiting an armed robbery at a bank then saying "sorry, I promise if you let me off I'll not do it again"

... and complaining about the "emotional trauma" of being caught!!

[CentreLine]

On the TV post-mortem the other night the tax expert on ITV said that the name of the newco could not be Rangers anything it had to be a completely new company and that the name “The Rangers Football Club” was simply a trading name not the name of the company. A flag of convenience if you like. That being the case, do we know what the real name of the new company actually is? I am certain we might want to include it in a song after all

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've had a reply from Paul McConville now - he reckons the properties are included in the £5.5m despite what the EOS says, mainly because it wouldn't make a lot of sense from Green's point of view to leave them with the Oldco. That's one of the reasons I had my doubts as well, but I'm still happy up here on the fence.

... which is where my previous conspiracy theory starts.

CG might have plans to buy the property separately from OldHun, and lease it to whoever he sells NewHun to. He then has a valuable asset, an assured rent, and a tidy profit from the sale of NewHun.

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If that's the case then the EOS was innacurate, does that affect its valdity? If there has been a "clerical error" that cant be reversed then can D+P be held liable? Is a coincidence that you and Charles Green have the same initials?

Three quick ones there Cav.

Whatever happens I do not imagine that Duff and Phelps have done anything other than damage their reputation and I cant imagine the two amigo's will have endeared themselves to their paymasters.

The whole CVA proposal was decidedly sloppy IMHO, but I think now that things have moved on it would be very difficult for anyone to make a claim unless they could prove that they made a decision based on erroneous information. The time to raise the issue would really have been before the CVA vote was taken.

On the initials thing, I keep seeing 'CG' being called all sorts of things and wondering what have I done now? I may have to change my user name - probably to include the word Quantum.

[lapsedhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

On the initials thing, I keep seeing 'CG' being called all sorts of things and wondering what have I done now? I may have to change my user name - probably to include the word Quantum.

Garage near me calls itself Quantum Mechanics.

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

... which is where my previous conspiracy theory starts.

CG might have plans to buy the property separately from OldHun, and lease it to whoever he sells NewHun to. He then has a valuable asset, an assured rent, and a tidy profit from the sale of NewHun.

I promise you I don't.

Seriously, that's why I can't/won't make my mind up. On the one hand there's so much underhand stuff going on (I'm more than ever convinced that D&P are treating Charles Green as their client rather than Rangers FC (IA)) that that possibility can't be dismissed. On the other hand the omission of the properties from the CVA proposal in those circumstances would be deliberately misleading and would be more likely to leave D&P open to a claim.

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Garage near me calls itself Quantum Mechanics.

I can't fix cars though.

Caversham Quantum or Quantum Green?

[EuanH78]

Alex Thomson still on case

Not surprised the SFA wont let Campbell Ogilvie near a real journalist but is a shame.

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...rs-legend/1947

"What goes around…comes around…

It is a familiar routine now at Rangers where men come in making big promises and they are ritually hailed as ‘heroes’ and ‘saviours’ and all the rest of it and few realistic questions are asked, few real facts offered.
And if one of the men has ‘legendary’ status in the club not only are the requisite questions not asked but it causes grave offence if anybody does begin to suggest a question or two. Tragically for Rangers we have seen it all before with Sir David Murray and the Big Fat Promises and living the dream and outspending everyone and everything at Parkhead.
Then along came Craig Whyte with poor old Sir Dave suddenly ‘duped’ by Craig’s vision and ‘off the radar wealth’ and all the rest of the now-traditional Alice-In-Wonderland guff. Except most of it rather less well-written than Lewis Carroll.
But you cannot question a legend. John Greig is a legend. Or so they tell me. So when Channel 4 News revealed he was on an EBT (Employee Benefit Trust) pointing out this simple facts caused squeals of pain and derision from some Ibrox fans unable to deal in facts. Because he is a ‘legend’ he is, somehow, beyond question.
All of which is not simply stupid. It’s dangerous. Dangerous for Rangers.

So today, I shall be asking some questions of the latest legend/saviour/hero/Christ/delete as applicable. A man called Walter Smith who, they tell me is a legend. When legends wander in and out of Ibrox everyone should be asking questions.
So why did Walter Smith leave it so very late in the day to come over the hill like the cavalry with the backing of money-men like Jim McColl? We do not yet know. Not only that, Mr Smith’s group is already making the large promises, exactly the kind of pathology which has condemned Rangers to catastrophe in the past:
“I have been assisted by Jim McColl, Douglas Park and other prominent Scottish businessmen with a shared objective – that Rangers Football Club should be in the hands of Rangers people who will stabilise the club and protect it from future situations like we find ourselves in today”
So who or what are these ‘Rangers people’ and how are they going to be different from the Rangers people in the past which was so destructive for the club?
Well, weirdly, Walter Smith is of course one of those Rangers people of the past – hence the legend bit of course.

If he really is different then he should be coming clean right now and explaining with openness, candour and honesty exactly what HIS Knowledge of or involvement in Employee Benefit Schemes Was during and after his time at Rangers.
Why?
Because candour and transparency are precisely what is still lacking from all the ‘Rangers people’.
Campbell Ogilvie, still stunningly not on gardening leave although ‘hugely conflicted’ according to his own boss at the Scottish Football Association, is eventually brought before selected, house-trained journalists in Glasgow to explain his EBT benefits.
Eventually. Will the SFA allow him to be interviewed by Channel 4 News? Unlikely.
This is the mindset, the refusal to explain or declare until it’s deemed absolutely unavoidable which continues to characterise the way things are in and around Ibrox.
The men who walk away do so and do not explain from David Murray onwards through director after director. And here’s what’s really crazy – nobody says there’s even anything wrong (yet) in getting EBT money.
Walter Smith now needs to show the courage, integrity and simple cojones so lacking in all those who’ve left Rangers. He must simply explain what his financial involvement has been, thereby proving he really is the ‘new Rangers person’ this club needs – and not simply another old retread who cannot handle the difficult issues, any more than all the previous Rangers people who walked away.
Because the club’s liquidated.
That means the HMRC boys can take the gloves off and they will absolutely go over all the money and how it worked.
And that means you Mr Smith, No hiding behind all the ‘I’m just a football man’ claptrap with which so many Rangers fans have been insulted. He asked for and got the big money from Sir David Murray. He bought – and true he sold too. The Revenue are going to come looking. They will not just stop at Murray, Whyte et al. They will follow the money. They’ve waited a long time for this. They are not going to let any one spoil their party now.
Around 2007-8 under Walter Smith and with David Murray’s largesse, Rangers Football Club was buying big and financing massive players’ wage bill through the EBT schemes. Thanks to BBC Panorama we now know players like Mendez and Davis were being paid in this way. Perhaps Walter Smith will just plead the tired old ‘ football man’ mantra but that is not likely to convince HMRC as it should not convince any journalist in or out of Glasgow right now.
That is just one instance where Mr Smith will come under scrutiny and one could pick many more. That is the significance of liquidation as I pointed out earlier this week. It will not go away. In truth it has not even begun. All Mr Smith has to do to create real credibility now, is to answer openly all questions people wish to put about his financial arrangements with Rangers.
Instead, what are we getting at the moment? Silence on this and yet again a whole cacophony of noise about …legends…heroes…promises. As the noted Scotsman Macbeth had it:
“It is a tale told by an idiot
“Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Have Rangers fans not had their fill of idiocy? Do they not deserve a few facts?"

Spot on, as usual IMO

[EuanH78]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I can't fix cars though.

Caversham Quantum or Quantum Green?

Caversham Greens Quantum Cars.

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Caversham Quantum or Quantum Green?

Stay as you are. I cannae take any more of this OldCo NewCo stuff.

[The Green Goblin]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From today's BBC Gossip page:

A newco Rangers could be offered a route into the First Division next season as part of a radical overhaul of the Scottish game. (Daily Record)
The Walter Smith-led consortium will launch a takeover bid for the new Rangers in the next 48 hours. (Sun)
Mike McDonald, a business partner of new Rangers chief executive Charles Green, says the Walter Smith-led consortium is just one of three parties to express an interest in buying out the assets of the club. (Daily Mail)

That DR comment "radical overhaul of the Scottish game" basically means they are trying to dress Rangers' wriggling out of a more severe punishment up as something positive which fans of other clubs want. Amazing isn't it? Maybe once the huns are deid, that rag will follow.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Stay as you are. I cannae take any more of this OldCo NewCo stuff.

You can talk.... Green Runs Up No Taxes.

[down-the-slope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

G4S have lost £295k in the Rangers liquidation - I doubt they'll be on the best of terms.

Maybe they were doing the old trick of flogging some assets to get their 295k back

[EuanH78]

Can we now change the thread title to Rangers in Liquidation?.... Admin Pr!cks

[down-the-slope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Daily Record will say whatever they think is the best for RFC. They're probably coming round to the fact that there is little or no chance of them getting into the SPL so will now try to implant the next best scenario into the heads of its readers.

The best way that WS can gain the upper hand is to question the D&P sale to Green through the courts.

If there are now 4 consortiums interested then the creditors should step in, overturn the original sale and auction the club off.

Ahem do you mean RFC - in administration and soon to be liquidated - but with a bunch of players it has no money to pay until liquidation cancels contracts. But still holding an SPL share until liquidated..but no ground or training facilities

Or do you mean TRFC trading name of newley formed company that has a ground and training facility but no players and no licence to play in any league in any case

We need to be clear what we are talking about...

[H18sry]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...rs-legend/1947

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is a coincidence that you and Charles Green have the same initials?

What if his full name is Charles William Green?