Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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Can we now change the thread title to Rangers in Liquidation?.... Admin Pr!cks

No.. cos they aren't.

[Cropley10]

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From today's Scotsman:

“I think Rangers have had giant punishments already –a European ban, a ten-point deduction, the emotional trauma everyone has suffered.

“I think for the good of Scottish football it’s much better that Rangers are in the SPL. For everyone’s sake we should forget the sins of a few people in the past and move on.”

As others have said, but still worth repeating, breathtaking in its arrogance.

The Euro ban isn't a punishment. It's simply what happens to every club that goes into administration. The ten point deduction still meant they finished 2nd FFS! And he adds in 'emotional trauma'.

What about the creditors Malcolm? What about the tax you avoided, tens of millions.

Never a whiff of an apology from anyone.

Oh and another thing Murray was a Man Utd shareholder.

[down-the-slope]

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Can we now change the thread title to Rangers in Liquidation?.... Admin Pr!cks

RFC (IA) are not in liquidation (yet)

[EuanH78]

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No.. cos they aren't.

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RFC (IA) are not in liquidation (yet)

Pr!cks

And what better post to start page 400.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Pr!cks

And what better post to start page 400.

V V V V V

Will the admin pricks become liquid pricks eventually?

[Jim44]

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Bloody hell

The Arrogance is mind-boggling

I'ts like getting caught commiting an armed robbery at a bank then saying "sorry, I promise if you let me off I'll not do it again"

Hate them

H

Correct. But the mindset of the majority of clubs is that we have to let them off in order to slowly get some money out of them.

[jonty]

If the new club want, in any way,shape or form, to use the old club name, traditions, stadium or in any other way associate themselves with the old club, then they should also take the old club punishment.

So unless they have the balls to admit previous mistakes and accept it, then sporting integrity has lost. Swindling the tax payer, re-inventing the club and claiming to be 'rangers' is cheating - pure and simple.
Bringing the game into disrepute, and futher embaressing scottish football, and scotland.

And thats before we get to the dodgy contracts.

The could lease ibrox, play in grey strips (with prison-style arrows on them) and start at the bottom of the spl.
If they want to be called rangers, then they can start the next 5 seasons on -40 points and have a 5 year absence from any european or cup competitions. And throw away their songbook.

are they really, really dead yet?

[Moulin Yarns]

Did Radio Scotland just say there were moves to merge the SPL and SFL BEFORE next season???

Sent a tweet to Sportsound, asking why 'gers are not going the way of Gretna to the Junior Leagues (Wst of Scotland League)

[Judas Iscariot]

"RFC not on SPL fixture list 2012/13"

Where is this fixture list? I can't see any link to the above?

[Lungo--Drom]

Personally I think that any club who wants to vote 'NO' should resign from the SPL on the condition that the SFL would allow a swelling of the ranks of the existing three SFL divisions and let the 'NO' clubs back into the SFL. Then the non-sporting integrity cubs who vote 'YES' to allowing to a NewHunCo FC into the SPL can rot in the maggot barrel with their manky blue friends. The SPL would quickly become unsustainable, go bust and so would the teams that voted 'YES'. Job done.

[Moulin Yarns]

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"RFC not on SPL fixture list 2012/13"

Where is this fixture list? I can't see any link to the above?

Out on Monday

[Judas Iscariot]

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Out on Monday

Thought it was the 18th right enough, so how do we know they aren't on the unreleased fixture list then?

[hibbyfrankie]

Correct link this time
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18471197

[Moulin Yarns]

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Thought it was the 18th right enough, so how do we know they aren't on the unreleased fixture list then?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/106461-...-fixture-list/

[seanshow]

Breaking news

SFA looking to completely revamp Scottish football including taking charge and combining SFA,SPL,SFL........before the start of the season! lmao.

Source Jim Spence @ Radio Scotland

[Offside Trap]

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Breaking news

SFA looking to completely revamp Scottish football including taking charge and combining SFA,SPL,SFL........before the start of the season! lmao.

Source Jim Spence @ Radio Scotland

Link here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18471197

Looks like Regan is taking charge and is clearly fed up with SPL faffing.

[Spike Mandela]

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From today's Scotsman:

"(Malcolm) Murray is hopeful, however, and believes that because it is a newco, it should not be punished for old misdemeanours.

“At the moment the biggest issue is what league we’ll play in. I’d much rather we were playing in the SPL.

“I think Rangers have had giant punishments already – a European ban, a ten-point deduction, the emotional trauma everyone has suffered.

“I think for the good of Scottish football it’s much better that Rangers are in the SPL. For everyone’s sake we should forget the sins of a few people in the past and move on.”

Oldco or newco, these lowlifes know no shame. July 2nd could be the date for the SPL newco vote. Bombard Petrie and the board telling him that only a NO vote will mean you return to Easter Road.

Ha ha yes the emotional trauma of wiping upwards of £100m off their debt. What hell these nasty creditors have put them through.

Rangers fans and their various players have suffered NO trauma whatsoever and if the various authorities go light on any future sanctions they have in fact had their greatest day in history.

[Saorsa]

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Link here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18471197

Looks like Regan is taking charge and is clearly fed up with SPL faffing.

And whatever set up they come up with the huns must still start in the bottom league.

[Barney McGrew]

Great (balanced) discussion on Radio Scotland just now - if you're not listening to it, it's worth tuning in.

[Cropley10]

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Ha ha yes the emotional trauma of wiping upwards of £100m off their debt. What hell these nasty creditors have put them through.

Rangers fans and their various players have suffered NO trauma whatsoever and if the various authorities go light on any future sanctions they have in fact had their greatest day in history.

The only trauma theyve suffered is not being 'top dog'

[cad]

One body to run Scottish football, that`ll never work

[HibbyAndy]

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And whatever set up they come up with the huns must still start in the bottom league.

Ive a feeling all this is a hidden agenda to accommodate the Huns remaining in the top flight, A mean why now?.

It reeks of hun loving *******s from top to bottom!.

[Saorsa]

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Ive a feeling all this is a hidden agenda to accommodate the Huns remaining in the top flight, A mean why now?.

It reeks of hun loving *******s from top to bottom!.

well whatever set up they come up with, if the stickies dinnae start at the bottom then it's Scottish fitba from me

[lapsedhibee]

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And whatever set up they come up with the huns must still start in the bottom league.

And that's neither the SPL nor the SFL.

[HibbyAndy]

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well whatever set up they come up with, if the stickies dinnae start at the bottom then it's Scottish fitba from me

"let's just have 2 leagues, demote Der Hun and they can get back into the top flight within a year."..... what a load of bollox.

[seanshow]

If you read between the lines of John Yorkston's comments on the situation, after having discussions with current SPL chairmen this week. The newco will not be voted into the league.

[blackpoolhibs]

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"let's just have 2 leagues, demote Der Hun and they can get back into the top flight within a year."..... what a load of bollox.

Are they wanting to make the top league an 18 team league, something they have battled against saying it wouldn't work?

[HibbyAndy]

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Are they wanting to make the top league an 18 team league, something they have battled against saying it wouldn't work?

Precisely


Funny that now they are looking into restructuring it eh

[rcarter1]

Having spoken to a friend who has worked for HMRC for about 15 years, a few points came up.

1. Rangers could have agreed to pay back all of their debts including the big tax case (ball park 80 Million total) in about 10 years, by using 10m per year of their approximate yearly 30M turnover. This of course would have reduced their wage bills and player quality. They CHOSE not to do this.

2. Liquidation should now result in Duff and Phelps being replaced by an HMRC appointed liquidator. Apparently the liquidator can scrap the Green purchase, and auction off Rangers assets, players, Stadium etc in order to get more than the 5.5 Million. In short Green doesn't have a leg to stand on if an objective liquidator carries out his/her job correctly.

3. HMRC should be in a position after liquidation to chase up individuals - i.e. David Murray to follow up the tax bill.

4. Green states that player contracts mean they have to stay with the club. My friends understanding of this is the opposite - which is to say that the newo is obliged to offer the same contracts - but the players are under no obligation to accept them. In essence the rules are there to prevent companies laying off staff without paying redundancy by changing into a new company.

All of this and other evidence points to - Green being either completely out of his depth and heading for a rude awakening, OR there is rather worrying amount of corruption of the rules to allow his 'scam' to succeed.

As a final aside, Rangers in my view should bite the bullet and get to the third division. The alternative of 10 years handicapped operating budget has been conveniently side stepped at the expense of the tax payer.

If they slide out of this, I hope there will be not only a fans walkout (which unfortunately probably hurts us not rangers), but a serious legal enquiry into the whole situation.

[Caversham Green]

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This is the problem faced by Rangers, the SPL and the SFA.
There is a real danger that this is turning into a 'we all hate Rangers so lets kill them off' while hiding behind the sporting integrity banner.
In two other threads I've asked what the crimes are that Rangers have committed and what punishments are available for these crimes, not what people want to see happen to them. I've not seen a reply to either yet.
If the SPL members have to vote on a new company entering the SPL under the circumstances that Rangers find themselves in now, and, there is no precedent set for such a set of circumstances then it has to be based on why they should not be allowed in.
This seems to be what is being said in as much as each case will be looked at on its own merit.

If Rangers are allowed to re enter the SPL it will either be with cripling sanctions or with acceptance that they will be liable for the crimes of GRFC.
If the allegations on double contracts and misuse of EBT's are proven to be correct then the outcome is likely to be expulsion from the SPL.

This does not have a 'happy ever after' endline.

That's all fair comment. To answer your question re RFC's crimes, they have been found guilty of:

• Going into administration - Penalty 10 point deduction. This has been seen to be totally inadequate as RFC finished in the exact same position as they would have had the penalty not been applied. On the other hand, if Hibs had been guilty of the same crime they would have been relegated and all other non-OF clubs would have lost at least one place in the league. The inadequacy of the penalty is not RFC's fault however, and steps have been taken to change the penalties for the future.
• Bringing the game into disrepute/failure to pay taxes - there were multiple crimes here but the main advantage gained by RFC was cash availability over a period of 9 months that was greater than the combined annual turnover of the third and fourth biggest clubs in the league. That is, they had more money to pay players' wages through dishonest means alone than two of their three main competitors had between them. They will not be repaying that money. Penalty £160,000 fine (just over 1% of the amount misappropriated) - unpaid, plus a further sanction yet to be determined. They chose to challenge what was a reasonably light sanction in the civil courts.
• Failure to produce audited accounts by the required deadline - penalty disqualification from the forthcoming European Champions League. A further penalty of disqualification from Scottish competitions has not been applied.
• The new company that is seeking to take RFC's place in Scottish football is ineligible for European competitions for three seasons - that's not a penalty it's a fact of life.
• They stand accused of wilfully misleading the Scottish football authorities regarding the nature of players' payments but the new company is seeking to avoid any penalties for this, plus those at the second bullet point while retaining the old club's status within Scottish football.

Until the recent change in the rules there were no provisions for allowing a new club into the SPL - in fact there was a strong argument that the rules prohibited this - but at the very least they simply did not recognise the concept. Aside from the perception that the SFA and more particularly the SPL will be bending or breaking the rules to allow a Newco in, the real worry is that the Newco will escape the penalties incurred by the Oldco while retaining the Oldco's footballing benefits. There is a precedent for this situation, albeit not in the SPL. Gretna FC went the same way as the old Rangers FC and the club that took on their 'personality' has had to start at the bottom of the Scottish football food chain. Is there any sporting reason why the new Rangers FC should be treated any differently?