Thoughts on the manager

[JimBHibees]

It's guaranteed neither the board nor Montgomery will be getting that. Trust/faith is earned.

This board have repeatedly hired incompetents, so they're not getting any. Montgomery with his ridiculous tactics, bat**** substitutions, his inability to sort out the defence, our best players underperforming, delusional post-match interviews and rank rotten results. Having failed on pretty much every metric, he's couldn't be further away from any supporter faith and rightly so.

I get the argument that we can't keep changing but to keep him, he needs to have demonstrated something to suggest he is capable and he has done the exact opposite. His performance over nearly a full season is more than enough to demonstrate capability, and he's demonstrated that he is not very capable at all.

Though our board have been seen to be trigger happy, those managers performance after they have left done nothing to suggest the decisions were wrong.

Understand all of that and agree with a lot of it particularly substitutions though and defence still feel he has earned enough and with reasonable round of decisions we should be top 6. Some performances have been poor absolutely and definitely need to improve.

[JimBHibees]

I think we can all agree the defence is the biggest weakness and young Triantis was never the answer to fixing it, add in Fish being naff and a shaky Rocky, it was never ending well. I'll also add the midfield is still a big problem for me NMW gas been a real bonus but we have the vastly underperforming Levitt, the perma injured Doyle Hayes and Amos who yet to show anything of the form from 3-4 years ago. Newell is also a conundrum, he's not a proper DM, doesn't create enough to be a proper playmaker and slows the game down constantly. I'd quite happily get shot off 7-8 of this underperforming squad.

Agree with all of that

[Paulie Walnuts]

Understand all of that and agree with a lot of it particularly substitutions though and defence still feel he has earned enough and with reasonable round of decisions we should be top 6. Some performances have been poor absolutely and definitely need to improve.

I’ve got no issues if folk want him to stay. I couldn’t agree less with it, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

What makes you think he’s ‘earned’ enough though? I can’t say there’s anything about his tenure at any point that makes me think he’s been putting credit in the bank?

can see that argument for guys like Jack Ross, who you could argue ‘earned’ more time with the successes he did have. He got third place, qualified for Europe, beat Rangers at Hampden, all things which put credit in the bank. I could even see that argument for LJ. He got top 6, Europe, beat Hearts, beat Celtic, got a superb result in Europe against Luzern.

I can’t really fathom where Montgomery has earned anything though. He walked in the door, won 1 of his first 8 league games and has delivered absolutely nothing of note over nearly a full season whilst likely taking us to the bottom 6. I’m really toiling to see where he’s earned anything whatsoever. It’s not just that his credit has run out. I don’t think he’s done a single thing to build any credit at any stage.

[Heisenberg]

I’ve got no issues if folk want him to stay. I couldn’t agree less with it, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

What makes you think he’s ‘earned’ enough though? I can’t say there’s anything about his tenure at any point that makes me think he’s been putting credit in the bank? I can see that argument for guys like Jack Ross, who you could argue ‘earned’ more time with the successes he did have. I could even see that argument for LJ. I can’t really fathom where Montgomery has earned anything though.

Your second point is where it ends up for me. I was looking for Monty to at least match what LJ did, which he obviously can still do, but it’s a long shot now. LJ only got kept on because he scraped into the top six then did well post split. I can’t see this team doing similar after last weekend.

[Stuart93]

When I read some of the opinions on how things are currently you’d expect us to be sitting 3rd/4th and going for europe

It seems pretty mad to me.

We’re scrapping for top 6th against Motherwell and Dundee.

I want so much better than we’re currently getting from every aspect of the team

[Mainstandman]

Its just hard to see where he has shown enough to give us hope that he can put a good season together.

we've performed badly in big games
our wins have been scrappy (livi aside)
our defence has not improved.
he's not getting the most out of the players
Obvious mistakes not corrected quickly
I don't see a great team ethic out there.


He's done okay since the Jan window. Feels a bit like lennon without the shouting, he can only do it if he gets players who can manage the game themselves, his own impact is pretty minimal.

Anyone remember his first two games, we were athletic, aggressive and on the front foot. Its never really appeared since then.

I wonder if the team is over coached in that they are doing the job they are being asked only so unreactive to what's going on in the game.

[jeffers]

The style of football will clearly get better with better players. I think the concentration on a possession game is the way to play to control games and should provide a decent starting point for improving. Better players keeper centre defence centre mid do that imo. Better bench and subs also help 😃

Again though we have quality and pace in forward areas as it stands that we will do really well to improve upon. Yet the football, and I accept others like Brightside disagree, has me tuning out as it’s too slow and ponderous in the main. I just don’t see how signing better CBs and a keeper will improve that, then consider he really rates Rocky, wants to sign Fish longer term and just sanctioned an extension to Obita’s contract…..

I’m not going to disagree that we’ve been on the wrong end of some horrific refereeing, but even taking that into consideration I’m still not accepting our squad isn’t better than Killie, Dundee or St Mirren and we should be above all 3. That we are not is down to Monty’s tactics, team selections and subs imo.

I get the argument about stability but it’s a far bigger gamble to stick with a manager who hasn’t shown enough in more or less a full season, allow him to oversee a major squad overhaul, only to punt him part way through the subsequent season than it is to bring in someone new in the summer.

[easty]

I honestly don’t think it is a bore. Watch a high lights reel of our goals and it’s as good as it’s been for years. People may not like a controlled build up whilst we look for openings but that’s far from dull for me. It’s pretty much how most decent teams play these days. I just want him to have time.

You see controlled build up, I see possession in our defence then direct football.

A controlled build up would work its way up the park, we control in our third then that plans oot the window.

[One Day Soon]

I don't know if you're right or wrong, but very intelligent choice of phrase. Either you are right and that's fine, or you're wrong but you're convincing people to join the pack mentality.

:greengrin

'pack mentality'.

If you mean that supporters have now had a near full season of watching largely incredibly dull football, often baffling substitutions and tactics, no clear indication of what the supposed development plan is and ultimately a pretty 5hitty league position then, yes, the pack has seen enough to know that it is not working and looks very unlikely to change.

[matty_f]

We had a sort of 'phone in' on Longbangers on the subject last night, good debate on it with some good points made for and against https://youtube.com/live/FlTe0D2Ig40?feature=share

[Hibernian Verse]

'pack mentality'.

If you mean that supporters have now had a near full season of watching largely incredibly dull football, often baffling substitutions and tactics, no clear indication of what the supposed development plan is and ultimately a pretty 5hitty league position then, yes, the pack has seen enough to know that it is not working and looks very unlikely to change.

:aok:

[Winston Ingram]

I think we can all agree the defence is the biggest weakness and young Triantis was never the answer to fixing it, add in Fish being naff and a shaky Rocky, it was never ending well. I'll also add the midfield is still a big problem for me NMW gas been a real bonus but we have the vastly underperforming Levitt, the perma injured Doyle Hayes and Amos who yet to show anything of the form from 3-4 years ago. Newell is also a conundrum, he's not a proper DM, doesn't create enough to be a proper playmaker and slows the game down constantly. I'd quite happily get shot off 7-8 of this underperforming squad.

This was another strange decision from Monty. He said at the start of the window we needed an experienced centre back. He then said in early Jan that they'd agreed a move for a CB but unfortunately, it fell through. I'm pretty sure I read it was him that was the deal that fell through. We then obviously resurrected it later.

How on earth can you acknowledge ye need an experienced centre back and then yer first choice is a 20 yr old centre back who's only real experience is in a pub league?:confused:

[Winston Ingram]

Understand all of that and agree with a lot of it particularly substitutions though and defence still feel he has earned enough and with reasonable round of decisions we should be top 6. Some performances have been poor absolutely and definitely need to improve.

I can't see how he's earned anything? He's been awful in almost every area.

I get the fact we've had a few decisions go against us but even with those going against us, any remotely competent manager would have had this squads top 6 position confirmed weeks ago.

[Winston Ingram]

I’ve got no issues if folk want him to stay. I couldn’t agree less with it, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

What makes you think he’s ‘earned’ enough though? I can’t say there’s anything about his tenure at any point that makes me think he’s been putting credit in the bank?

can see that argument for guys like Jack Ross, who you could argue ‘earned’ more time with the successes he did have. He got third place, qualified for Europe, beat Rangers at Hampden, all things which put credit in the bank. I could even see that argument for LJ. He got top 6, Europe, beat Hearts, beat Celtic, got a superb result in Europe against Luzern.

I can’t really fathom where Montgomery has earned anything though. He walked in the door, won 1 of his first 8 league games and has delivered absolutely nothing of note over nearly a full season whilst likely taking us to the bottom 6. I’m really toiling to see where he’s earned anything whatsoever. It’s not just that his credit has run out. I don’t think he’s done a single thing to build any credit at any stage.

This

[One Day Soon]

I’ve got no issues if folk want him to stay. I couldn’t agree less with it, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

What makes you think he’s ‘earned’ enough though? I can’t say there’s anything about his tenure at any point that makes me think he’s been putting credit in the bank?

can see that argument for guys like Jack Ross, who you could argue ‘earned’ more time with the successes he did have. He got third place, qualified for Europe, beat Rangers at Hampden, all things which put credit in the bank. I could even see that argument for LJ. He got top 6, Europe, beat Hearts, beat Celtic, got a superb result in Europe against Luzern.

I can’t really fathom where Montgomery has earned anything though. He walked in the door, won 1 of his first 8 league games and has delivered absolutely nothing of note over nearly a full season whilst likely taking us to the bottom 6. I’m really toiling to see where he’s earned anything whatsoever. It’s not just that his credit has run out. I don’t think he’s done a single thing to build any credit at any stage.


Agree with this strongly. What am I not seeing that some others are to suggest he knows what he is doing, is making progress and is worth persevering with?

Everything about the football side at the moment is like chewing cardboard and has been all season.

[Since452]

I’ve got no issues if folk want him to stay. I couldn’t agree less with it, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

What makes you think he’s ‘earned’ enough though? I can’t say there’s anything about his tenure at any point that makes me think he’s been putting credit in the bank?

can see that argument for guys like Jack Ross, who you could argue ‘earned’ more time with the successes he did have. He got third place, qualified for Europe, beat Rangers at Hampden, all things which put credit in the bank. I could even see that argument for LJ. He got top 6, Europe, beat Hearts, beat Celtic, got a superb result in Europe against Luzern.

I can’t really fathom where Montgomery has earned anything though. He walked in the door, won 1 of his first 8 league games and has delivered absolutely nothing of note over nearly a full season whilst likely taking us to the bottom 6. I’m really toiling to see where he’s earned anything whatsoever. It’s not just that his credit has run out. I don’t think he’s done a single thing to build any credit at any stage.

Completely agree. Word for word.

[bingo70]

I’ve got no issues if folk want him to stay. I couldn’t agree less with it, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

What makes you think he’s ‘earned’ enough though? I can’t say there’s anything about his tenure at any point that makes me think he’s been putting credit in the bank?

can see that argument for guys like Jack Ross, who you could argue ‘earned’ more time with the successes he did have. He got third place, qualified for Europe, beat Rangers at Hampden, all things which put credit in the bank. I could even see that argument for LJ. He got top 6, Europe, beat Hearts, beat Celtic, got a superb result in Europe against Luzern.

I can’t really fathom where Montgomery has earned anything though. He walked in the door, won 1 of his first 8 league games and has delivered absolutely nothing of note over nearly a full season whilst likely taking us to the bottom 6. I’m really toiling to see where he’s earned anything whatsoever. It’s not just that his credit has run out. I don’t think he’s done a single thing to build any credit at any stage.

I don’t disagree with you and probably closer to being in total agreement with you than I was a fortnight ago.

Playing devils advocate though, I think the suggestion is he’s earned the right when he was given a 3 year contract. He’s effectively earned the benefit of the doubt due to the job he did at his previous club and our recruitment process.

[Since452]

I don’t disagree with you and probably closer to being in total agreement with you than I was a fortnight ago.

Playing devils advocate though, I think the suggestion is he’s earned the right when he was given a 3 year contract. He’s effectively earned the benefit of the doubt due to the job he did at his previous club and our recruitment process.

With hindsight, handing him a 3 year contract looks madness considering the huge step up he was making. I hope Hibs inserted break clauses into his contract. Punting managers must be costing us a fortune.

[Iain G]

This was another strange decision from Monty. He said at the start of the window we needed an experienced centre back. He then said in early Jan that they'd agreed a move for a CB but unfortunately, it fell through. I'm pretty sure I read it was him that was the deal that fell through. We then obviously resurrected it later.

How on earth can you acknowledge ye need an experienced centre back and then yer first choice is a 20 yr old centre back who's only real experience is in a pub league?:confused:

You are taking a leap and assuming they are the same player to back up your ongoing berating of NM at every turn. At the time there was a lot of chat about an actual experienced centre back we wanted but his club decided to keep him, it wasn't Triantis.

[Iain G]

With hindsight, handing him a 3 year contract looks madness considering the huge step up he was making. I hope Hibs inserted break clauses into his contract. Punting managers must be costing us a fortune.

Or it gives him time to grow and develop with some security? If it works we have a manager secured on a long enough deal to get compensation after year 2.

[Real Emerald]

I’ve got no issues if folk want him to stay. I couldn’t agree less with it, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

What makes you think he’s ‘earned’ enough though? I can’t say there’s anything about his tenure at any point that makes me think he’s been putting credit in the bank?

can see that argument for guys like Jack Ross, who you could argue ‘earned’ more time with the successes he did have. He got third place, qualified for Europe, beat Rangers at Hampden, all things which put credit in the bank. I could even see that argument for LJ. He got top 6, Europe, beat Hearts, beat Celtic, got a superb result in Europe against Luzern.

I can’t really fathom where Montgomery has earned anything though. He walked in the door, won 1 of his first 8 league games and has delivered absolutely nothing of note over nearly a full season whilst likely taking us to the bottom 6. I’m really toiling to see where he’s earned anything whatsoever. It’s not just that his credit has run out. I don’t think he’s done a single thing to build any credit at any stage.

Brilliant post and I agree 100% with everything you’ve said. Monty has got nothing in the bank from day one, absolutely nothing.

[Brightside]

Brilliant post and I agree 100% with everything you’ve said. Monty has got nothing in the bank from day one, absolutely nothing.

But the club head hunted him for the job.

[Winston Ingram]

I don’t disagree with you and probably closer to being in total agreement with you than I was a fortnight ago.

Playing devils advocate though, I think the suggestion is he’s earned the right when he was given a 3 year contract. He’s effectively earned the benefit of the doubt due to the job he did at his previous club and our recruitment process.

I don't see the length of contract being awarded as earned. I think it's just the minimum standard when you appoint a new manager.

Maloney signed a 3 and half year deal, Johnson got a 4 yr deal. Jack Ross signed a 3 year deal and then another 3 year deal later.

The only 'earned' contract in there is the JR ext.

[Winston Ingram]

But the club head hunted him for the job.

Another brilliant demonstration of how incompetent they are finding managers.

[Winston Ingram]

You are taking a leap and assuming they are the same player to back up your ongoing berating of NM at every turn. At the time there was a lot of chat about an actual experienced centre back we wanted but his club decided to keep him, it wasn't Triantis.

I'm not taking a leap, I'm just quoting what I read. Who was the centre back?

[Iain G]

I'm not taking a leap, I'm just quoting what I read. Who was the centre back?

Can't recall now but it wasn't anyone from Sunderland. It was discussed on the January transfer thread.

[Brightside]

I'm not taking a leap, I'm just quoting what I read. Who was the centre back?

We don't know. But Triantis isn't experienced.

[Winston Ingram]

We don't know. But Triantis isn't experienced.

I know

[One Day Soon]

Or it gives him time to grow and develop with some security? If it works we have a manager secured on a long enough deal to get compensation after year 2.

Do we regard ourselves as a nursery for developing inexperienced managers? If it doesn't work we presumably pay more in compensation for the get-rid option?

There's no security in a three year deal for any manager if we are tanking. Manager and club both know that. If a manager has a 1 year or a 5 year contract the determining factors are exactly the same, do well and you're fine, do badly and you're out.

[Real Emerald]

But the club head hunted him for the job.

It’s not worked out though and he’s shown nothing to suggest he has the know how to make things happen. Other managers in this league found him out quickly and he seems to have no clue how to counter act opponents tactics. In actual fact his in play changes more often than not make us worse. He’s done nothing of note to suggest he’s got it and has in my opinion failed.

[Fergus52]

I think we can all agree the defence is the biggest weakness and young Triantis was never the answer to fixing it, add in Fish being naff and a shaky Rocky, it was never ending well. I'll also add the midfield is still a big problem for me NMW gas been a real bonus but we have the vastly underperforming Levitt, the perma injured Doyle Hayes and Amos who yet to show anything of the form from 3-4 years ago. Newell is also a conundrum, he's not a proper DM, doesn't create enough to be a proper playmaker and slows the game down constantly. I'd quite happily get shot off 7-8 of this underperforming squad.

Joint most assists of any centre mids in the league this season, which is pretty good considering he plays quite deep, although several are from set pieces tbf.

Your second point there just isn't true this season - under Maloney and Ross' tactics yeah I'd agree, but not this season. Heart's analysis guy on twitter done a deep dive statistically into the centre mids that were creating the most chances and playing the most accurate passes into the final third etc. and Newell was right up there for all those categories.

That's pretty good considering he makes a fair amount of tackles and interceptions as well.

The stick he gets on here is completely undeserved, he's one of our best players.

[JimBHibees]

I can't see how he's earned anything? He's been awful in almost every area.

I get the fact we've had a few decisions go against us but even with those going against us, any remotely competent manager would have had this squads top 6 position confirmed weeks ago.

I think with a fair run of decisions we are winning the derby as an example though we should have won anyway and above the teams we are currently competing with. Yes I agree we have butchered points away with some very poor performances however he should be top 6 even allowing for that. Think some of the performances have been decent such as the last derby Celtic at home chunks of the Rangers Cup tie. Think a couple of big wins also boost the confidence of the whole club coaching staff players many of them young and also the fans.

[TrinityHFC]

Can't recall now but it wasn't anyone from Sunderland. It was discussed on the January transfer thread.

Not sure that’s right. He said we had agreed a deal with a centre half before it fell down. I don’t think it was ever stated how experienced the player was or where they came from.

All the indications were after Triantis signed was that he was the one we had previously been close to getting.

I think it adds to it being more likely than not that Triantis was the one he wanted in.

[matty_f]

Not sure that’s right. He said we had agreed a deal with a centre half before it fell down. I don’t think it was ever stated how experienced the player was or where they came from.

All the indications were after Triantis signed was that he was the one we had previously been close to getting.

I think it adds to it being more likely than not that Triantis was the one he wanted in.

I'm certain it was confirmed that it was Triantis, potentially in one of his interviews when he signed, or Monty's interview after he signed him.

[Heisenberg]

I'm certain it was confirmed that it was Triantis, potentially in one of his interviews when he signed, or Monty's interview after he signed him.

Definitely how I remember it, Triantis was the first choice target.

[Iain G]

Not sure that’s right. He said we had agreed a deal with a centre half before it fell down. I don’t think it was ever stated how experienced the player was or where they came from.

All the indications were after Triantis signed was that he was the one we had previously been close to getting.

I think it adds to it being more likely than not that Triantis was the one he wanted in.

There was certainly a lot of talk around a different centre half from a different club before Triantis had been mentioned. Always felt Triantis was the back up plan.

Could be a lot of ITK folks talking nonsense as usual of course 😁

[jeffers]

There was certainly a lot of talk around a different centre half from a different club before Triantis had been mentioned. Always felt Triantis was the back up plan.

More likely when Sunderland were stalling we looked elsewhere, but went back for Triantis when they made him available. Anything I was told Triantis was our first choice CB for the January window.

[Dmas]

More likely when Sunderland were stalling we looked elsewhere, but went back for Triantis when they made him available. Anything I was told Triantis was our first choice CB for the January window.

I think this is right, Sunderland signed a CB and Triantis was here very shortly after.

I know we needed and experienced CB but I don’t think it’s a terrible thing for a manager to sign someone he’s worked with and trusts to play the style he wants it’s unfortunate the big guy has struggled at CB I don’t think it’s much of a slight on NM to have went for that Oppertunity , experienced defenders cost money in Jan windows not many clubs give those away half way through a season we know the budget was tight

[Winston Ingram]

I'm certain it was confirmed that it was Triantis, potentially in one of his interviews when he signed, or Monty's interview after he signed him.

I knew I read it somewhere!

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t disagree with you and probably closer to being in total agreement with you than I was a fortnight ago.

Playing devils advocate though, I think the suggestion is he’s earned the right when he was given a 3 year contract. He’s effectively earned the benefit of the doubt due to the job he did at his previous club and our recruitment process.

May be the case but I think that in itself is a fairly damning indictment of how bad an appointment he’s been that any credit he has ever built up isn’t even based on his time here despite having been here for nearly a full season.

The best that can be mustered up in terms of where he’s gained credit at Hibs is a defeat to Celtic and a draw to Hearts. It tells its own story that those games appear to be the most impressive parts.

[Winston Ingram]

I think with a fair run of decisions we are winning the derby as an example though we should have won anyway and above the teams we are currently competing with. Yes I agree we have butchered points away with some very poor performances however he should be top 6 even allowing for that. Think some of the performances have been decent such as the last derby Celtic at home chunks of the Rangers Cup tie. Think a couple of big wins also boost the confidence of the whole club coaching staff players many of them young and also the fans.

We're assuming that we'd have gone to win the games which is a massive assumption.

[Paulie Walnuts]

With hindsight, handing him a 3 year contract looks madness considering the huge step up he was making. I hope Hibs inserted break clauses into his contract. Punting managers must be costing us a fortune.

The suggestion every time a manager gets sacked is that we only pay a few months severance. If that’s the case then sacking underperforming managers really isn’t the financial disaster some would have us believe it is. In fact, it’s fairly insignificant.

[matty_f]

The suggestion every time a manager gets sacked is that we only pay a few months severance. If that’s the case then sacking underperforming managers really isn’t the financial disaster some would have us believe it is. In fact, it’s fairly insignificant.

There are severance agreements in the contracts for managers now that are nowhere near the full term of the contract and i think I heard they may be as little as 3 months' pay. It's also been rumoured that a bottom six finish would trigger an option for Hibs to terminate the contract without compensation, which (assuming it's correct) gives an idea of where Hibs draw the line in terms of acceptable minimum performance.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We're assuming that we'd have gone to win the games which is a massive assumption.

:agree:

For a team that wins very few games we seem to be considered a certainty to have went on and won every game where decisions went against us.

[matty_f]

:agree:

For a team that wins very few games we seem to be considered a certainty to have went on and won every game where decisions went against us.

Think it's fair to say we'd have won at Ross County.

[The Modfather]

May be the case but I think that in itself is a fairly damning indictment of how bad an appointment he’s been that any credit he has ever built up isn’t even based on his time here despite having been here for nearly a full season.

The best that can be mustered up in terms of where he’s gained credit at Hibs is a defeat to Celtic and a draw to Hearts. It tells its own story that those games appear to be the most impressive parts.

I think it’s only fair to also add the context of what he Inherited.

Marshall in goal.

A central defence from Hanlon/Fish/Rocky/Harbottle

A midfield from Newell/Levitt/Campbell/Jeggo/JDH/Delfierre - Kenneh & Henderson too, though they might already have been loaned out pre Montgomery)

I have a lot of sympathy for him pre January. Post January/post St Mirren game we were considerably better than the points we did get IMO, sadly recently we’ve gone into our shell again. Overall I wouldn’t make much of a case for keeping him. However he’s not the sole main problem IMO, the squad is. Of the 10 players I listed above from keeper to midfield, that he inherited. How many would most folk want to start next season? Newell, maybe Marshall at a push. That’s as telling as the job Montgomery has done IMO.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Think it's fair to say we'd have won at Ross County.

I would agree with that. The game used as an example though was the Derby at Tynecastle. Theres little to suggest we’d have gone on to win that.

Even the Ross County game though. It was a throw in awarded the wrong way. We’ll have had them go our way throughout the season. The fact a team managed to take advantage of it against us whilst we haven’t managed to take advantage when they’ve went our way is on us.

[Brightside]

There are severance agreements in the contracts for managers now that are nowhere near the full term of the contract and i think I heard they may be as little as 3 months' pay. It's also been rumoured that a bottom six finish would trigger an option for Hibs to terminate the contract without compensation, which (assuming it's correct) gives an idea of where Hibs draw the line in terms of acceptable minimum performance.

If that is the case for Monty then I imagine they will remove him. Im just not sure if the same minimum performance measure is in place. I guess the difference is he didn't apply for this role, so perhaps he had more say in what is deemed acceptable and what that means for his contract.

[Winston Ingram]

Think it's fair to say we'd have won at Ross County.

That is fair.

[Paulie Walnuts]

There are severance agreements in the contracts for managers now that are nowhere near the full term of the contract and i think I heard they may be as little as 3 months' pay. It's also been rumoured that a bottom six finish would trigger an option for Hibs to terminate the contract without compensation, which (assuming it's correct) gives an idea of where Hibs draw the line in terms of acceptable minimum performance.

If it’s 3 months then it’s likely he’d leave with about £75k or so at best.

When folk are talking about it obliterating our transfer budget in the summer, it’s not really the case.

[Kato]

I would agree with that. The game used as an example though was the Derby at Tynecastle. Theres little to suggest we’d have gone on to win that.

Even the Ross County game though. It was a throw in awarded the wrong way. We’ll have had them go our way throughout the season. The fact a team managed to take advantage of it against us whilst we haven’t managed to take advantage when they’ve went our way is on us.So if Hearts hadn't been given a dodgy pen they would have went on to win?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Chorley Hibee]

This improvement argument doesn't hold much weight with me.

Our record since the turn of the year (League) is:

P13 W3 D5 L5 PTS 14

Abysmal stuff, and failure to secure top six this coming week should be the end of him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

So if Hearts hadn't been given a dodgy pen they would have went on to win?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I literally never mentioned Hearts winning once, so I’ve no idea how you’ve come to that conclusion.

[jeffers]

I think this is right, Sunderland signed a CB and Triantis was here very shortly after.

I know we needed and experienced CB but I don’t think it’s a terrible thing for a manager to sign someone he’s worked with and trusts to play the style he wants it’s unfortunate the big guy has struggled at CB I don’t think it’s much of a slight on NM to have went for that Oppertunity , experienced defenders cost money in Jan windows not many clubs give those away half way through a season we know the budget was tight

Compared to the other stuff that’s happened I’m not going to slaughter him for the Triantis signing, though it’s not unreasonable to say we needed an experienced head there, a leader, not another youngster. Especially considering he’s decided he has no faith in the one experienced CB we do have. The recruitment team for sanctioning it deserve as much flak as Monty.

It’s not intended as a dig but your argument about experienced CBs being hard to come by in January without spending money could equally apply about quality midfielders and forwards, yet we managed to sign them.

[Kato]

I literally never mentioned Hearts winning once, so I’ve no idea how you’ve come to that conclusion.So a draw then?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Winston Ingram]

There are severance agreements in the contracts for managers now that are nowhere near the full term of the contract and i think I heard they may be as little as 3 months' pay. It's also been rumoured that a bottom six finish would trigger an option for Hibs to terminate the contract without compensation, which (assuming it's correct) gives an idea of where Hibs draw the line in terms of acceptable minimum performance.

This was certainly the case before we appointed Heckingbottom. IIRC, we were going to appoint Michael Appleton and he withdrew when he was told about that.

[Dmas]

Think it's fair to say we'd have won at Ross County.

And away at aberdeen had we got a blatant pen for handball late on, that would have us 5th at this point

[Chorley Hibee]

And away at aberdeen had we got a blatant pen for handball late on, that would have us 5th at this point

I agree it was a scandalous decision, but we've no idea on how the match would have played out.

As much chance we would have missed the penalty.

[Paulie Walnuts]

So a draw then?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Nobody knows, do they?

That’s the point. I’ve seen posts on here giving us a fictional extra 2 points for a win at Tynecastle. As a team who win close to a quarter of our league games, the idea it’s some sort of certainty that we’d have beat the team running away with 3rd place is nonsense.

It’s also been mentioned above that if we got a late penalty at Aberdeen that we’d have won that game as well. Seeing as we’ve missed 50% of our penalties, that’s far from a certainty.

[JimBHibees]

We're assuming that we'd have gone to win the games which is a massive assumption.

Don’t think it is even an extra 5 points or so has us top 6 which to be fair we should have anyway.

[JimBHibees]

I agree it was a scandalous decision, but we've no idea on how the match would have played out.

As much chance we would have missed the penalty.

As much chance ?

[blackpoolhibs]

So if Hearts hadn't been given a dodgy pen they would have went on to win?

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On the evidence of this season, we probably would have found a way of not winning the game.

[JimBHibees]

So if Hearts hadn't been given a dodgy pen they would have went on to win?

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A game we dominated and should have won anyway

[Chorley Hibee]

As much chance ?

We either score or miss, 50/50 in that sense.

[Winston Ingram]

If that is the case for Monty then I imagine they will remove him. Im just not sure if the same minimum performance measure is in place. I guess the difference is he didn't apply for this role, so perhaps he had more say in what is deemed acceptable and what that means for his contract.

This is probably quite likely. I remember Moyes was sacked at Man U the moment it was mathematically impossible for Man U to reach the Champions League. It saved them millions in compensation.

[Dmas]

Compared to the other stuff that’s happened I’m not going to slaughter him for the Triantis signing, though it’s not unreasonable to say we needed an experienced head there, a leader, not another youngster. Especially considering he’s decided he has no faith in the one experienced CB we do have. The recruitment team for sanctioning it deserve as much flak as Monty.

It’s not intended as a dig but your argument about experienced CBs being hard to come by in January without spending money could equally apply about quality midfielders and forwards, yet we managed to sign them.

On loan because none of them have been playing games, would a 28yr old centre back who hadn’t kicked a ball in 18months be any better? I’m not disagreeing with the need for experience at that back that’s been as plain as the nose on your face for a long time it’s just no something you can go out and get just cause, another CB who had experience but couldn’t pass water would be no help either it’s not easy to just pick up, he knows Triantis game he knows his ability on the ball it should have been less of a gamble at a time he can’t really afford much, it’s not worked out unfortunately

[Stuart93]

If that is the case for Monty then I imagine they will remove him. Im just not sure if the same minimum performance measure is in place. I guess the difference is he didn't apply for this role, so perhaps he had more say in what is deemed acceptable and what that means for his contract.

Do you think monty deems a bottom 6 finish acceptable?

I can’t imagine the club would’ve accepted him setting the bar any lower than top 6

[Chorley Hibee]

Nobody knows, do they?

That’s the point. I’ve seen posts on here giving us a fictional extra 2 points for a win at Tynecastle. As a team who win close to a quarter of our games, the idea it’s some sort of certainty that we’d have beat the team running away with 3rd place is nonsense.

It’s also been mentioned above that if we got a late penalty at Aberdeen that we’d have won that game as well. Seeing as we’ve missed 50% of our penalties, that’s far from a certainty.

The incident at Aberdeen happened in the first half.

It was a shocking decision, but there was plenty of time for the game to have been played out to various different conclusions (should the penalty have been given).

I have very little faith in Hibs winning three points from any circumstance then, or now.

[Dmas]

Do you think monty deems a bottom 6 finish acceptable?

I can’t imagine the club would’ve accepted him setting the bar any lower than top 6

I think he will class it as failure, he has said in interviews he asked for 3 years as it was accepted there was a lot of work to do, based on that i wouldn’t think the bottom 6 clause would be in as well

[Paulie Walnuts]

The incident at Aberdeen happened in the first half.

It was a shocking decision, but there was plenty of time for the game to have been played out to various different conclusions (should the penalty have been given).

I have very little faith in Hibs winning three points from any circumstance then, or now.

I can’t actually even remember the decision off the top of my head, will need to go have a look. It was mentioned it was late on in the post I was referring to so just presumed it was correct.

Completely agree with your post :aok:

[jeffers]

Don’t think it is even an extra 5 points or so has us top 6 which to be fair we should have anyway.

We’d arguably be two points better off if he hadn’t made stupid subs in the first home game v Ross County though. That’s a bigger issue for me than any dodgy decisions we’ve had against us.

[Brightside]

Do you think monty deems a bottom 6 finish acceptable?

I can’t imagine the club would’ve accepted him setting the bar any lower than top 6

Ive no idea. To be clear I'm not talking about what we the fans think is acceptable. But there may have been a discussion where he was told "We are less worried about league position this year, and we are behind you trying to rebuild the team over the next 3 years".

[jeffers]

On loan because none of them have been playing games, would a 28yr old centre back who hadn’t kicked a ball in 18months be any better? I’m not disagreeing with the need for experience at that back that’s been as plain as the nose on your face for a long time it’s just no something you can go out and get just cause, another CB who had experience but couldn’t pass water would be no help either it’s not easy to just pick up, he knows Triantis game he knows his ability on the ball it should have been less of a gamble at a time he can’t really afford much, it’s not worked out unfortunately

I absolutely get why he signed Triantis and as I said I’m not going to slaughter him for that decision. However it’s ultimately proved to be really poor judgment on his part. He absolutely is decent on the ball but if he can’t defend for toffee it’s not much use to us.

[Donegal Hibby]

Nobody knows, do they?

That’s the point. I’ve seen posts on here giving us a fictional extra 2 points for a win at Tynecastle. As a team who win close to a quarter of our games, the idea it’s some sort of certainty that we’d have beat the team running away with 3rd place is nonsense.

It’s also been mentioned above that if we got a late penalty at Aberdeen that we’d have won that game as well. Seeing as we’ve missed 50% of our penalties, that’s far from a certainty.

To have an advantage taken away from you before halftime boasts one teams morale while deflates the others too. Maybe changes the team talks and how the game pans out .

The penalty at Aberdeen even if it's 50 / 50 wither we score it or not we'd still have a better chance to win the game if we had got it though.

Sorry but we have been robbed this year with bad decisions which have ultimately effected our games and cost us points .

[Paulie Walnuts]

To have an advantage taken away from you before halftime boasts one teams morale while deflates the others too. Maybe changes the team talks and how the game pans out .

The penalty at Aberdeen even if it's 50 / 50 wither we score it or not we'd still have a better chance to win the game if we had got it though.

Sorry but we have been robbed this year with bad decisions which have ultimately effected our games and cost us points .

It does indeed. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s an absolute nonsense to suggest we’d have simply beat Hearts, or beat Aberdeen, had decisions went our way. It’s a comfort blanket that has absolutely no basis.

There would still have been masses of football to play and we’ve shown ourselves to be a team who need no encouragement to throw away games.

As a team who win nearly a quarter of our league games, the idea that we’d have just went out and won all these other games is daft.

[Dmas]

I can’t actually even remember the decision off the top of my head, will need to go have a look. It was mentioned it was late on in the post I was referring to so just presumed it was correct.

Completely agree with your post :aok:

That’s my post I actually did think it was late on I’ve maybe got that wrong, if it was first half then I agree we can discount that, I don’t think it’s wrong to suggest winning at Tynie without the pen call, my post referred to the Ross county draw as well however and not this game but they stunk the place out and didn’t threaten why would that change if the ref made the correct decision?

[Paulie Walnuts]

That’s my post I actually did think it was late on I’ve maybe got that wrong, if it was first half then I agree we can discount that, I don’t think it’s wrong to suggest winning at Tynie without the pen call, my post referred to the Ross county draw as well however and not this game but they stunk the place out and didn’t threaten why would that change if the ref made the correct decision?

We still had a full half of football to play at Tynecastle. There was way too much football to be played, that would have unfolded completely differently, to be able to say we would have won it. Who knows, if Fish got rid of the ball rather than hanging onto it he may have passed it straight to a Hearts player and they’d have scored anyway? He may have played it out to a Hibs player and we’d have scored?

The Ross County game, yes, I’d agree there’s a good chance we’d have won, because it would only have been about 30 seconds of football to unfold differently.

That being said though, the Ross County game was a wrongly awarded throw in. Ross County managed to capitalise on it by us being all over the shop. We’ll have had throw ins awarded to us. I find it hard to get all that angry about a throw in being awarded the wrong way, it happens all the time.

[Trinity Hibee]

Ive no idea. To be clear I'm not talking about what we the fans think is acceptable. But there may have been a discussion where he was told "We are less worried about league position this year, and we are behind you trying to rebuild the team over the next 3 years".

Regardless of circumstances, if someone in charge for most a season such as NM has, I can’t imagine Hibs manager being told league position doesn’t really matter this year and that any bottom 6 finish isn’t looked upon as utter failure.

However if that is the case we have much bigger problems within the upper management than we think.

[Winston Ingram]

Compared to the other stuff that’s happened I’m not going to slaughter him for the Triantis signing, though it’s not unreasonable to say we needed an experienced head there, a leader, not another youngster. Especially considering he’s decided he has no faith in the one experienced CB we do have. The recruitment team for sanctioning it deserve as much flak as Monty.

It’s not intended as a dig but your argument about experienced CBs being hard to come by in January without spending money could equally apply about quality midfielders and forwards, yet we managed to sign them.

The issue here was he came out at the start of the window acknowledging we needed an experienced CB and then makes a beeline for a 20 year old who's total experience amounted 26 games in a very poor league.

[Donegal Hibby]

It does indeed. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s an absolute nonsense to suggest we’d have simply beat Hearts, or beat Aberdeen, had decisions went our way. It’s a comfort blanket that has absolutely no basis.

There would still have been masses of football to play and we’ve shown ourselves to be a team who need no encouragement to throw away games.

Of course in the games there's plenty of time for the other teams to turn things around though you are still far better of mate having the advantage or being given one you deserve than not .

As to the hertz game they must have got such a lift going in at halftime after getting that penalty.

I agree we have thrown leads away though I'd have loved to have been in the position coming out leading 1-0 with the team in high spirits than what happened . Could also have worked the other way and the more it went on the more desperate they'd become in pushing forward that we might have nicked another .

We will never know if we'd have beaten both Aberdeen and hertz though we though both games two decisions certainly didn't help us too . Cost us points ? Possibly yes .

[Unseen work]

Do you think monty deems a bottom 6 finish acceptable?

I can’t imagine the club would’ve accepted him setting the bar any lower than top 6

I genuinely don’t think he would. He doesn’t strike me as someone in the changing room saying we need to be top 6 absolutely minimum, it’s actually embarrassing to think we could be potentially celebrating it as a positive.

I think similar to Maloney he thinks it wouldn’t be the worst because of things like injuries, playing a youngster etc.

Johnson I at least think knew bottom 6 was in acceptable.

[18Craig75]

Totally agree with this .
Was looking at CCM forum and last post here I thought was fairly accurate.
https://www.ccmfans.net/community/threads/hibernian-fc-thread.7088/page-4

Quite telling that every poster on that thread is calling for us to give him time!

[Since452]

Quite telling that every poster on that thread is calling for us to give him time!

Latest post on that thread was over two months ago. Wonder what they would say now?

[Dmas]

We still had a full half of football to play at Tynecastle. There was way too much football to be played, that would have unfolded completely differently, to be able to say we would have won it. Who knows, if Fish got rid of the ball rather than hanging onto it he may have passed it straight to a Hearts player and they’d have scored anyway? He may have played it out to a Hibs player and we’d have scored?

The Ross County game, yes, I’d agree there’s a good chance we’d have won, because it would only have been about 30 seconds of football to unfold differently.

That being said though, the Ross County game was a wrongly awarded throw in. Ross County managed to capitalise on it by us being all over the shop. We’ll have had throw ins awarded to us. I find it hard to get all that angry about a throw in being awarded the wrong way, it happens all the time.

I see your point difficult to argue against other than we where by far and away the better team that day but I suppose we have shot ourselves in the foot enough times not to discount doing it again, the Ross county game was a wrongly awarded throw, taken in the wrong place with an opportunity not to be offside it’s no wonder we where all over the shot

[JimBHibees]

We either score or miss, 50/50 in that sense.

Not really think pens stats are usually something like one in ten missed

[JimBHibees]

We’d arguably be two points better off if he hadn’t made stupid subs in the first home game v Ross County though. That’s a bigger issue for me than any dodgy decisions we’ve had against us.

Yes should never have brought Paul Hanlon on 😄

[Donegal Hibby]

Quite telling that every poster on that thread is calling for us to give him time!

It certainly is . I'd personally him the summer to rebuild . Mariners must have went through a period like ourselves . As the last post refers to the rinse and repeat of sacking managers isn't good either.

[Chorley Hibee]

Not really think pens stats are usually something like one in ten missed

Hibs have a 50% success rate from the spot this season.

What tens of thousands of teams, around the world, do with their penalties is of no consequence to Hibs' record.

[Since452]

I genuinely don’t think he would. He doesn’t strike me as someone in the changing room saying we need to be top 6 absolutely minimum, it’s actually embarrassing to think we could be potentially celebrating it as a positive.

I think similar to Maloney he thinks it wouldn’t be the worst because of things like injuries, playing a youngster etc.

Johnson I at least think knew bottom 6 was in acceptable.

It really shows the skewed perception of success and failure at a club like ours. Jack Ross never really recovered in the eyes of many from losing games at Hampden. A victim of being good enough to get there regularly. Now we could potentially be in a scenario where Montgomery gets a pat on the back from many for scraping into the top six after months and months of dross and have calls for him to stay.

We've seen Maloney and Montgomery get praise for plucky draws at best with Hearts while Ross and Johnson beat them and it barely gets a mention. It's all very strange.

[Since90+2]

Ive no idea. To be clear I'm not talking about what we the fans think is acceptable. But there may have been a discussion where he was told "We are less worried about league position this year, and we are behind you trying to rebuild the team over the next 3 years".

Given that this is the last year of guaranteed group stage European football for 3rd place or the winners of the Scottish I find that scenario highly unlikely.

[jeffers]

Yes should never have brought Paul Hanlon on 😄

Agreed. He should have started. Regularly subbing CBs was another of his nonsensical decisions.

[Hibees1973]

This improvement argument doesn't hold much weight with me.

Our record since the turn of the year (League) is:

P13 W3 D5 L5 PTS 14

Abysmal stuff, and failure to secure top six this coming week should be the end of him.

Agreed.

Seem some on here want some 'aye but's' inserted into his contract:

Aye but, if we got a penalty for that
Aye but, if we got that throw in

With the squad he has had to choose from, to be in the bottom 6 at the split is failure. If Kensell & Ian Gordon use the same rules they did in sacking the previous 3 managers and we are in the bottom 6 at the split, he should be punted.

[Rumble de Thump]

Agreed.

Seem some on here want some 'aye but's' inserted into his contract:

Aye but, if we got a penalty for that
Aye but, if we got that throw in

With the squad he has had to choose from, to be in the bottom 6 at the split is failure. If Kensell & Ian Gordon use the same rules they did in sacking the previous 3 managers and we are in the bottom 6 at the split, he should be punted.

If we bring in a new head coach and we get another season of referees making a similarly ridiculous amount of blatantly incorrect decisions against us, which gift points to our opponents at our expense, then we will struggle to make the top six again. It would save us a lot of time, upheaval and money to acknowledge that and not sack our head coach. If the games had been refereed fairly and rules applied properly we would already have achieved top six some time ago and would be competing for a European spot. The real problem this season has been the refeering. Changing the head coach won't fix that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Quite telling that every poster on that thread is calling for us to give him time!

There’s also posters on that forum who claim he’s destined for the EPL and that he’d never want to come to Hibs, which speaks volumes about the site.

[18Craig75]

There’s also posters on that forum who claim he’s destined for the EPL and that he’d never want to come to Hibs, which speaks volumes about the site.

I wonder what they’d think reading some of your posts and others that come across as actually wanting Monty to fail just so they can be proved right…..

[Paulie Walnuts]

I wonder what they’d think reading some of your posts and others that come across as actually wanting Monty to fail just so they can be proved right…..

:faf:

[hibsbollah]

There’s also posters on that forum who claim he’s destined for the EPL and that he’d never want to come to Hibs, which speaks volumes about the site.

Theres also posters saying hes unsaveable, and equally hyperbolic nonsense. Just have a reasoned debate acknowledging where good things have happened as well as bad would be a good start. It just becomes a blood sport at this point, and i am totally convinced that some hibs fans actually enjoy the rage and the ‘sack him’ frenzy.

[Is It On....]

It really shows the skewed perception of success and failure at a club like ours. Jack Ross never really recovered in the eyes of many from losing games at Hampden. A victim of being good enough to get there regularly. Now we could potentially be in a scenario where Montgomery gets a pat on the back from many for scraping into the top six after months and months of dross and have calls for him to stay.

We've seen Maloney and Montgomery get praise for plucky draws at best with Hearts while Ross and Johnson beat them and it barely gets a mention. It's all very strange.



Win ratios
Jack Ross - 48.96%
Lee Johnson - 38.46%
Paul Heckingbottom - 34.38%
Nick Montgomery - 33.33%
Shaun Maloney - 31.58%

[Stuart93]

Ive no idea. To be clear I'm not talking about what we the fans think is acceptable. But there may have been a discussion where he was told "We are less worried about league position this year, and we are behind you trying to rebuild the team over the next 3 years".

Aye? I find that pretty mental as well considering LJ achieved a euro spot last season with less resources

If that is the case then I wonder what the clubs plan was to try and retain ST numbers for next season if they’d basically said it doesn’t matter about league position this year

[04Sauzee]

Win ratios
Jack Ross - 48.96%
Lee Johnson - 38.46%
Paul Heckingbottom - 34.38%
Nick Montgomery - 33.33%
Shaun Maloney - 31.58%

Heckingbottom actually had the best loss percentage in the league losing 28.12 % of league games

JR 30.20%
PH 28.12%
SM 36.80%
LJ 46.15%
NM 33.33%

On a points per game in the league

JR 1.68
PH 1.41
SM 1.26
LJ 1.31
NM 1.33

Something like 14 points over a season between best and worst, although Maloney got 19 games

[Real Emerald]

Aye? I find that pretty mental as well considering LJ achieved a euro spot last season with less resources

If that is the case then I wonder what the clubs plan was to try and retain ST numbers for next season if they’d basically said it doesn’t matter about league position this year

Exactly, the only thing being put forward in his favour is to give him more time and a transfer window to hope he comes good. There is no evidence whatsoever, no tangible improvements, no decent results, no entertaining football or anything else for that matter to back up any claims he’ll come good, nothing.

[Stuart93]

Exactly, the only thing being put forward in his favour is to give him more time and a transfer window to hope he comes good. There is no evidence whatsoever, no tangible improvements, no decent results, no entertaining football or anything else for that matter to back up any claims he’ll come good, nothing.

Agree. If the club want the fans to buy into a vision, they at least need to see the start of something. This seasons been hibs all over.

[jeffers]

Exactly, the only thing being put forward in his favour is to give him more time and a transfer window to hope he comes good. There is no evidence whatsoever, no tangible improvements, no decent results, no entertaining football or anything else for that matter to back up any claims he’ll come good, nothing.

This for me, the best “defence” of him I’ve seen is we are better since the January window (it’s minimal and it ****** should be given the quality we brought in) and we’ve had some bad decisions from officials.

[Since452]

Win ratios
Jack Ross - 48.96%
Lee Johnson - 38.46%
Paul Heckingbottom - 34.38%
Nick Montgomery - 33.33%
Shaun Maloney - 31.58%

Considering we were on a bad run when he was punted Ross's record is incredible.

[matty_f]

Theres also posters saying hes unsaveable, and equally hyperbolic nonsense. Just have a reasoned debate acknowledging where good things have happened as well as bad would be a good start. It just becomes a blood sport at this point, and i am totally convinced that some hibs fans actually enjoy the rage and the ‘sack him’ frenzy.

I have been having this discussion over a few WhatsApp groups etc and I am someone who absolutely sees the merit in giving a manager time - I'm usually in the last 10% if folk to say a manager's time is up, I reckon.

I desperately want him to succeed, I was all in on his appointment from the word go. I have no desire to see him fail.

What are the positives though - the tangible things that say "he's the right guy"?

It's not results. It's not performances. There isn't a group of players who have come on leaps and bounds...

What is there to base the positives on?


So far, the biggest thing in the "for" column seems to be that he's had awful luck with referees.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Theres also posters saying hes unsaveable, and equally hyperbolic nonsense. Just have a reasoned debate acknowledging where good things have happened as well as bad would be a good start. It just becomes a blood sport at this point, and i am totally convinced that some hibs fans actually enjoy the rage and the ‘sack him’ frenzy.

Genuine question. What are the good things? His record isn’t good. The football isn’t good. Our league position almost certainly isn’t going to be good and I think it would be a stretch to say he’s made any of our players better. We’ve not managed a derby victory, we lost to the team in 9th place who had 10 men at Hampden (and actually managed to concede the goal that lost us the game when we had the advantage).

I said it earlier, but I genuinely don’t think he’s had any unquestionably positive moments despite being here for pretty much a full season. The only manager in recent times that I think you could say the same about is Maloney, and he got a hell of a lot less time to do it in.

[JimBHibees]

Hibs have a 50% success rate from the spot this season.

What tens of thousands of teams, around the world, do with their penalties is of no consequence to Hibs' record.

Ok have we had any pens this season 😂

[JimBHibees]

Agreed. He should have started. Regularly subbing CBs was another of his nonsensical decisions.

Agree with that made no sense subbing centre backs outside of youth football can’t really remember it happening at pro level

[The Modfather]

Genuine question. What are the good things?

First manager to move on from Hanlon & Stevenson. First manager to identify the midfield as needing rebuilt and the first manager to actual go a long way to doing just that.

It’s not a defence in itself as if Montgommery was sacked, meh. If he stays on, meh. However I don’t really see much difference between now and last season under Johnson. Same precarious position going into the split, with one likely to fall over the line and another fall just short. The main difference being Johnson had 2 transfer windows and a summer. Montgomery came in mid season having inherited no midfield and no defence despite millions spent in the summer.

[hibsbollah]

Genuine question. What are the good things?

Improved performances after the window, both from existing players who improved and from new faces like Moriah Welsh Marcondez and Myziane who are clearly better than what we have. I await the inevitable snarky comments about ‘bad luck’ not being an excuse, and the usual ‘tolerating mediocrity’ schtick, but we HAVE had bad luck, i cant believe its even debatable.

Obviously results arent good enough YET, im not sure what course of action is for the best, move on now or trust the process, but its not a simple argument.

[JimBHibees]

If we bring in a new head coach and we get another season of referees making a similarly ridiculous amount of blatantly incorrect decisions against us, which gift points to our opponents at our expense, then we will struggle to make the top six again. It would save us a lot of time, upheaval and money to acknowledge that and not sack our head coach. If the games had been refereed fairly and rules applied properly we would already have achieved top six some time ago and would be competing for a European spot. The real problem this season has been the refeering. Changing the head coach won't fix that.

Too much like common sense not getting penalties or being on the wrong end of hideous decisions clearly have very little impact in a game.

[JimBHibees]

First manager to move on from Hanlon & Stevenson. First manager to identify the midfield as needing rebuilt and the first manager to actual go a long way to doing just that.

It’s not a defence in itself as if Montgommery was sacked, meh. If he stays on, meh. However I don’t really see much difference between now and last season under Johnson. Same precarious position going into the split, with one likely to fall over the line and another fall just short. The main difference being Johnson had 2 transfer windows and a summer. Montgomery came in mid season having inherited no midfield and no defence despite millions spent in the summer.

Agree with that. Quite like he has attempted to move on from Paul and Lewis while completely appreciating the fantastic service they have given the club.

[GreenCastle]

If he doesn’t make top 6 - surely no one can complain if he gets sacked.

He’s had numerous opportunities to win gets to get the required points to make top 6 including winnable games against..

St Johnstone home (loss)
Ross County away (draw)
St Mirren home (loss)
Motherwell home (draw)
St Johnstone away (loss)
Ross county home (draw)
St Mirren away (draw)

Plus potentially tomorrow’s game against Motherwell away.

So many dropped points - and simply not acceptable for a Hibs manager with the resources we provide.

Top 6 shouldn’t even be celebrated either - it’s a total failure being 21 points behind Hearts - behind Killie / Dundee and St Mirren!

[JimBHibees]

This for me, the best “defence” of him I’ve seen is we are better since the January window (it’s minimal and it ****** should be given the quality we brought in) and we’ve had some bad decisions from officials.

These are related though in that better results due to correct decisions will likely result in better performances

[JimBHibees]

If he doesn’t make top 6 - surely no one can complain if he gets sacked.

He’s had numerous opportunities to win gets to get the required points to make top 6 including winnable games against..

St Johnstone home (loss)
Ross County away (draw)
St Mirren home (loss)
Motherwell home (draw)
St Johnstone away (loss)
Ross county home (draw)
St Mirren away (draw)

Plus potentially tomorrow’s game against Motherwell away.

So many dropped points - and simply not acceptable for a Hibs manager with the resources we provide.

Top 6 shouldn’t even be celebrated either - it’s a total failure being

Don’t think anyone would be celebrating it however would be preferable

[Paulie Walnuts]

Improved performances after the window, both from existing players who improved and from new faces like Moriah Welsh Marcondez and Myziane who are clearly better than what we have. I await the inevitable snarky comments about ‘bad luck’ not being an excuse, and the usual ‘tolerating mediocrity’ schtick, but we HAVE had bad luck, i cant believe its even debatable.

Obviously results arent good enough YET, im not sure what course of action is for the best, move on now or trust the process, but its not a simple argument.

Our improved performances since the window closed have lead to 12 points in 10 games. That’s exactly what we’ve picked up throughout the season overall. It’s actually worse than Montgomerys overall PPG.

If improved performances which still aren’t particularly exciting, and aren’t translating into results are the best we’ve got then I think that tells a story.

Shaun Maloneys Hibs actually put in a few hugely improved performances just before he got sacked. It’s hardly worth noting though when it doesn’t count for anything.

[MWHIBBIES]

First manager to move on from Hanlon & Stevenson. First manager to identify the midfield as needing rebuilt and the first manager to actual go a long way to doing just that.

It’s not a defence in itself as if Montgommery was sacked, meh. If he stays on, meh. However I don’t really see much difference between now and last season under Johnson. Same precarious position going into the split, with one likely to fall over the line and another fall just short. The main difference being Johnson had 2 transfer windows and a summer. Montgomery came in mid season having inherited no midfield and no defence despite millions spent in the summer.

:faf: Seriously?

Those guys are absolute Hibs legends. They'll be remembered long after Monty is binned. Its hardly his choice. If he had them in their prime, they'd still be key players.

[Hibeesforever]

The argument for keeping Monty is paper thin. Why wait getting rid of him when the extra time finding a new manager could be really helpful. A rebuild is needed in the summer and I don't trust him to do it. Performance since we sacked Jack Ross has been woeful, a new manager is required to get the fans energized. Monty does not have the game management skills to be that man to lead the club forward.

[matty_f]

Improved performances after the window, both from existing players who improved and from new faces like Moriah Welsh Marcondez and Myziane who are clearly better than what we have. I await the inevitable snarky comments about ‘bad luck’ not being an excuse, and the usual ‘tolerating mediocrity’ schtick, but we HAVE had bad luck, i cant believe its even debatable.

Obviously results arent good enough YET, im not sure what course of action is for the best, move on now or trust the process, but its not a simple argument.
Your last line sums it up. It's not a simple argument which I think isn't because Monty has done anything to make anyone think twice, but the circumstances around the club and the fact that for whatever reason, he's one of a number of managers who have (so far) underachieved over successive seasons (Johnson, while getting into Europe, didn't get the target of fourth).

There are questions, for me at least, about what the barriers to these managers succeeding are that, unless addressed, will likely set the next guy up to fail as well..

Additionally, the problem of the lack of continuity will remain an issue as another manager wants to change the style of play and the profile of player we sign, which just takes us backwards based on the evidence we've seen over this process repeating over successive managers, none of whom have left us better than they found us.

[One Day Soon]

Theres also posters saying hes unsaveable, and equally hyperbolic nonsense. Just have a reasoned debate acknowledging where good things have happened as well as bad would be a good start. It just becomes a blood sport at this point, and i am totally convinced that some hibs fans actually enjoy the rage and the ‘sack him’ frenzy.

You may be right but if there are any on here enjoying the rage and frenzy I think they could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Maybe on one finger of one hand.

Most of those whose patience is near, or already at, empty seem to be there from frustration at seeing next to no evidence of improvement in results, league position, players or performances. The hope of incremental improvement was posted elsewhere and I'd take that in a heartbeat if it seemed it was happening, there just doesn't seem to be any tangible sign of it.

I will be happy to eat shovels of humble pie if I'm wrong. Nothing would delight me more than to see him and us become successful. I'm just sick of watching over promising and under performing versions of Hibs and I'd sign up for medium or long term success no bother if that appeared to be on offer. After over 40 years of watching us though it feels like I have acquired my 10,000 hours enough of spectating to look at it and call it as not working. There's no joy in that, or rage, just weary familiarity I think.

[jeffers]

First manager to move on from Hanlon & Stevenson. First manager to identify the midfield as needing rebuilt and the first manager to actual go a long way to doing just that.

It’s not a defence in itself as if Montgommery was sacked, meh. If he stays on, meh. However I don’t really see much difference between now and last season under Johnson. Same precarious position going into the split, with one likely to fall over the line and another fall just short. The main difference being Johnson had 2 transfer windows and a summer. Montgomery came in mid season having inherited no midfield and no defence despite millions spent in the summer.


I’m not so sure about your first paragraph. Ross had phased Stevenson out with Doig and while Monty has dropped Hanlon it’s hard to make a case for it being with anyone better or there being any improvement in our defending, which surely was the main consideration not just phasing him out for the sake of it.

Johnson signed midfielders too, I’m not sure the fact we signed better under Monty is such a big plus in his favour though, especially when the best one we signed hasn’t been getting a game latterly so he can play a CB who has failed in his proper position in his place.

[The Modfather]

:faf: Seriously?

Those guys are absolute Hibs legends. They'll be remembered long after Monty is binned. Its hardly his choice. If he had them in their prime, they'd still be key players.

A constructive reply as always.

Good servants, however they’re not in their prime though and haven’t been for a number of seasons. With each passing season they, naturally, become less and less the answer. However until this season they never seemed to be transitioned out as first picks.

[Paulie Walnuts]

First manager to move on from Hanlon & Stevenson. First manager to identify the midfield as needing rebuilt and the first manager to actual go a long way to doing just that.

It’s not a defence in itself as if Montgommery was sacked, meh. If he stays on, meh. However I don’t really see much difference between now and last season under Johnson. Same precarious position going into the split, with one likely to fall over the line and another fall just short. The main difference being Johnson had 2 transfer windows and a summer. Montgomery came in mid season having inherited no midfield and no defence despite millions spent in the summer.

Bit of a stretch to credit him with phasing out Stevenson. Obita has replaced him and he was signed by our previous manager and put bluntly, you’d have to be an idiot to play Stevenson ahead of him.

[Is It On....]

Heckingbottom actually had the best loss percentage in the league losing 28.12 % of league games

JR 30.20%
PH 28.12%
SM 36.80%
LJ 46.15%
NM 33.33%

On a points per game in the league

JR 1.68
PH 1.41
SM 1.26
LJ 1.31
NM 1.33

Something like 14 points over a season between best and worst, although Maloney got 19 games

Jack Ross doesn't look too bad whichever way you cut the data.

Some fella called Jock Stein from the 1960s had a pretty decent record with a win ratio of 62% and a loss ratio of 22%. Pity he lasted less than a year although his replacement Mr Shankly [described rather harshly by my dad as not nearly as good which is technically true but a "bit" unfair] had a "credible" record with a win ratio of 50.86% and a loss ratio of 33%. 😂

[The Modfather]

Bit of a stretch to credit him with phasing out Stevenson. Obita has replaced him and he was signed by our previous manager and put bluntly, you’d have to be an idiot to play Stevenson ahead of him.

Not a hill I’m going to die on. There’s probably elements of getting Obita up to fitness and/or squad rotation. However Stevenson played a lot during the European games and league games under Johnson, the two seemed to share the left back position. Montgomery has been reluctant to use Stevenson.

[hibsbollah]

Our improved performances since the window closed have lead to 12 points in 10 games. That’s exactly what we’ve picked up throughout the season overall. It’s actually worse than Montgomerys overall PPG.

If improved performances which still aren’t particularly exciting, and aren’t translating into results are the best we’ve got then I think that tells a story.

Shaun Maloneys Hibs actually put in a few hugely improved performances just before he got sacked. It’s hardly worth noting though when it doesn’t count for anything.

A really frustrating reply, everybody is well aware that the points return is disappointing, thats not in question. And the fact that Maloneys teams had a couple of decent performances towards the end isn’t surprising and doesnt address nuance.

What the club needs is a new culture.

[hibsbollah]

Jack Ross doesn't look too bad whichever way you cut the data.

Some fella called Jock Stein from the 1960s had a pretty decent record with a win ratio of 62% and a loss ratio of 22%. Pity he lasted less than a year although his replacement Mr Shankly [described rather harshly by my dad as not nearly as good which is technically true but a "bit" unfair] had a "credible" record with a win ratio of 50.86% and a loss ratio of 33%. 😂

People hated Ross on here back in the day. Eyebleeding, turgid all those kind of cliches about the style of play got an airing. It would be interesting to see who was posting what when and whether the same demands were being made by the same people in a different scenario.

[bingo70]

A really frustrating reply, everybody is well aware that the points return is disappointing, thats not in question. And the fact that Maloneys teams had a couple of decent performances towards the end isn’t surprising and doesnt address nuance.

What the club needs is a new culture.

One of the big problems Monty faces is a lot of people’s minds have been made up and when that happens there’s usually only one outcome.

If I’m honest that’s probably part of the reason I’m as restless as I am. I think we’ve all seen this movie enough times to know what’s coming. He’s got nowhere near enough credit in the back to survive when the masses turn on him and it gets really toxic. It’s been pretty mild so far other than a lot of posters on here. When that is the case we’re as well just ripping the plaster off and dealing with it now.

IMO to make it until the end of next week he needs top 6. To make it until the start of next season he needs a strong finish after the split and take a decent number of points from the post split top 6 fixtures. If we make it to the top 6 but we’re the whipping boys he’ll get the sack I think.

I don’t think we will make it to the top 6 though, every must win game we’ve had so far we’ve managed to make a **** of, I don’t see too many grounds for optimism tomorrow.

[TrinityHFC]

Not a hill I’m going to die on. There’s probably elements of getting Obita up to fitness and/or squad rotation. However Stevenson played a lot during the European games and league games under Johnson, the two seemed to share the left back position. Montgomery has been reluctant to use Stevenson.

Obita wasn’t fit at the start of the season. NM has had the benefit of him being fit and up to speed.

[jeffers]

People hated Ross on here back in the day. Eyebleeding, turgid all those kind of cliches about the style of play got an airing. It would be interesting to see who was posting what when and whether the same demands were being made by the same people in a different scenario.

If it helps I was bored quite often under Ross same as I’m bored under Monty. I wanted Ross gone, I want Monty gone. The big difference is I could see the argument that Ross had some credit in the bank that meant giving him more time wasn’t unreasonable.

[May21/05/216]

I have been having this discussion over a few WhatsApp groups etc and I am someone who absolutely sees the merit in giving a manager time - I'm usually in the last 10% if folk to say a manager's time is up, I reckon.

I desperately want him to succeed, I was all in on his appointment from the word go. I have no desire to see him fail.

What are the positives though - the tangible things that say "he's the right guy"?

It's not results. It's not performances. There isn't a group of players who have come on leaps and bounds...

What is there to base the positives on?


So far, the biggest thing in the "for" column seems to be that he's had awful luck with referees.And one transfer window

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

Exactly, the only thing being put forward in his favour is to give him more time and a transfer window to hope he comes good. There is no evidence whatsoever, no tangible improvements, no decent results, no entertaining football or anything else for that matter to back up any claims he’ll come good, nothing.

Apply the logic that some on here use and you'll see the posters that are backing him are just trying to save face and not wanting to admit they've been wrong again :wink:

[Real Emerald]

One of the big problems Monty faces is a lot of people’s minds have been made up and when that happens there’s usually only one outcome.

If I’m honest that’s probably part of the reason I’m as restless as I am. I think we’ve all seen this movie enough times to know what’s coming. He’s got nowhere near enough credit in the back to survive when the masses turn on him and it gets really toxic. It’s been pretty mild so far other than a lot of posters on here. When that is the case we’re as well just ripping the plaster off and dealing with it now.

IMO to make it until the end of next week he needs top 6. To make it until the start of next season he needs a strong finish after the split and take a decent number of points from the post split top 6 fixtures. If we make it to the top 6 but we’re the whipping boys he’ll get the sack I think.

I don’t think we will make it to the top 6 though, every must win game we’ve had so far we’ve managed to make a **** of, I don’t see too many grounds for optimism tomorrow.

I can’t see him surviving a bottom 6 finish. The stadium will be almost empty for every game, a total failure. If he gets us to the top six it will probably see him clinging on by his finger tips to survive.

If he doesn’t make top six he should be gone immediately when it’s confirmed to give us time to get in someone else, have a good summer transfer window and pre season. No messing about.

Hibs really can’t afford to be bottom 6 but I fear a top 6 finish could see us hanging onto him and having the same wash out next season. It’s not a very good scenario but that’s where we’re at unfortunately.

[Brightside]

Apply the logic that some on here use and you'll see the posters that are backing him are just trying to save face and not wanting to admit they've been wrong again :wink:

Thats a pretty embarrassing post. If people do not agree with you not only are they wrong, they are also doing it as they just don't want to admit they are wrong. Just close the forum down. Just have it full of people agreeing with each other. :greengrin

[Paulie Walnuts]

A really frustrating reply, everybody is well aware that the points return is disappointing, thats not in question. And the fact that Maloneys teams had a couple of decent performances towards the end isn’t surprising and doesnt address nuance.

What the club needs is a new culture.

It’s frustrating because I don’t agree with you?. The ‘improved performances’ have imo been marginally improved at best, starting from an extremely low bar and delivered even less in terms of results than what was being delivered pre the window closing.

You’re going round suggesting that people are
unwilling to see the good. Really, as far as im concerned, there hasn’t been any.

[J-C]

I have been having this discussion over a few WhatsApp groups etc and I am someone who absolutely sees the merit in giving a manager time - I'm usually in the last 10% if folk to say a manager's time is up, I reckon.

I desperately want him to succeed, I was all in on his appointment from the word go. I have no desire to see him fail.

What are the positives though - the tangible things that say "he's the right guy"?

It's not results. It's not performances. There isn't a group of players who have come on leaps and bounds...

What is there to base the positives on?


So far, the biggest thing in the "for" column seems to be that he's had awful luck with referees.

I get all what you're saying here but the squad prior to January and afterwards should be good enough to be well up the league and in the top 6, with out all the VAR and referee nonsense. On paper this squad is pretty decent, why then has it not shown this on the pitch and who's to blame, the players ? or the manager?

[Winston Ingram]

Improved performances after the window, both from existing players who improved and from new faces like Moriah Welsh Marcondez and Myziane who are clearly better than what we have. I await the inevitable snarky comments about ‘bad luck’ not being an excuse, and the usual ‘tolerating mediocrity’ schtick, but we HAVE had bad luck, i cant believe its even debatable.

Obviously results arent good enough YET, im not sure what course of action is for the best, move on now or trust the process, but its not a simple argument.

If there has ever been a process undeserving of trust, it’s ours.

[SteveHFC]

Interesting NM has just sain on Stv all he's going nowhere and is perfectly happy

[Victor]

Monty stating that he’s going nowhere and will continue the rebuild.

[bingo70]

Interesting NM has just sain on Stv all he's going nowhere and is perfectly happy

Failure to make the top 6 and I’d doubt if he gets a say in it.

Nothing else he can say if asked really, not sure it changes or means anything though.

[blackpoolhibs]

People hated Ross on here back in the day. Eyebleeding, turgid all those kind of cliches about the style of play got an airing. It would be interesting to see who was posting what when and whether the same demands were being made by the same people in a different scenario.

I'd have loved to have seen Jack Ross get the funds the managers we've seen since his sacking get, although to be fair to Maloney and LJ, they hardly got to pick who was coming through the doors, a bit like Ross at the end too.:rolleyes:

[Paulie Walnuts]

Failure to make the top 6 and I’d doubt if he gets a say in it.

Nothing else he can say if asked really, not sure it changes or means anything though.

It doesn’t. Short of saying ‘I might walk away’ which he never will, there’s nothing else for him to say.

He will be here until he gets sacked/mutually consented.

[Dmas]

I get all what you're saying here but the squad prior to January and afterwards should be good enough to be well up the league and in the top 6, with out all the VAR and referee nonsense. On paper this squad is pretty decent, why then has it not shown this on the pitch and who's to blame, the players ? or the manager?

How can the squad be pretty decent but everyone always going in on Rocky Jair McKirdy Newell doidge miller Campbell JDH jeggo harbottle Kenneh melkerson stevenson Hanlon Marshall as all being either not good enough or past it? We’ve had multiple thread slating multiple players over this season and last it can’t just now be pretty decent because we need to keep beating the manager that squad is miles off being a 3rd/4th place team where we have being aiming to be, thats why we scraped top 6 last year and are battling to scrape it again this year

[jeffers]

How can the squad be pretty decent but everyone always going in on Rocky Jair McKirdy Newell doidge miller Campbell JDH jeggo harbottle Kenneh melkerson stevenson Hanlon Marshall as all being either not good enough or past it? We’ve had multiple thread slating multiple players over this season and last it can’t just now be pretty decent because we need to keep beating the manager that squad is miles off being a 3rd/4th place team where we have being aiming to be, thats why we scraped top 6 last year and are battling to scrape it again this year

Would you say Dundee, Killie and St Mirren have better squads than us ?

[Dmas]

Would you say Dundee, Killie and St Mirren have better squads than us ?

Would any of those players I listed get a game for hearts?

[Davy Mac]

Thought he came across quite arrogant, a bit like his tenure so far, stubborn and still not getting the disconnection he has with the fans.

I'm not bothered about top 6, what i am bothered about is our performances and they have have been shxte since you've arrived and dont see any improvement at all.

Some individual bright spots since the window but by large total and utter ganton, honesty last saturdy was enough for me to make my mind up.

[jeffers]

Would any of those players I listed get a game for hearts?

That’s not the question I asked is it ? It’s a simple question, do you think our squad is worse than the teams I mentioned ?

[babahibs]

Ive no idea. To be clear I'm not talking about what we the fans think is acceptable. But there may have been a discussion where he was told "We are less worried about league position this year, and we are behind you trying to rebuild the team over the next 3 years".

I feel that this post isn't getting the attention it deserves.

We're a few months into a 3 year project, he's going nowhere.

[The Modfather]

That’s not the question I asked is it ? It’s a simple question, do you think our squad is worse than the teams I mentioned ?

They probably have more players who can come in and make a meaningful contribution. More players that help to make the team more than the sum of its parts. We have (certainly pre January) a squad who you could possibly argue for on an individual basis for a number of them, but who make the team less than the sum of its parts IMO.

[superfurryhibby]

I feel that this post isn't getting the attention it deserves.

We're a few months into a 3 year project, he's going nowhere.

Get back to me on that after Saturday.

[jeffers]

They probably have more players who can come in and make a meaningful contribution. More players that help to make the team more than the sum of its parts. We have (certainly pre January) a squad who you could possibly argue for on an individual basis for a number of them, but who make the team less than the sum of its parts IMO.

That’s not an unreasonable viewpoint. It’s also possible their respective managers are getting more out of the players they have at their disposal. All hypothetical but if you gave McIness, Docherty or Robinson the pick of our squad it would be interesting just how many they went for….The first two wanted to sign the much maligned Paul Hanlon as an example.

[JohnM1875]

I feel that this post isn't getting the attention it deserves.

We're a few months into a 3 year project, he's going nowhere.

We're seven months, almost a quarter of the time, in to this project. He's had 33 competitive games. That's more than enough time for him to show signs of progress and improving us. I honestly don't think he's done that.

[WhileTheChief..]

Thats a pretty embarrassing post. If people do not agree with you not only are they wrong, they are also doing it as they just don't want to admit they are wrong. Just close the forum down. Just have it full of people agreeing with each other. :greengrin

That's exactly the point I'm making!

There's been loads of posts over the last few months saying that some of us want NM to fail purely on the basis we weren't keen on him in the first place and don't want to look bad if he succeeds.

Of course both of these points are ludicrous, but it gets said over and over by those in favour of keeping NM.

Similar to when we wanted to replace LJ. We were all accused of having an 'agenda'. Utter nonsense.

[A Hi-Bee]

That's exactly the point I'm making!

There's been loads of posts over the last few months saying that some of us want NM to fail purely on the basis we weren't keen on him in the first place and don't want to look bad if he succeeds.

Of course both of these points are ludicrous, but it gets said over and over by those in favour of keeping NM.

Similar to when we wanted to replace LJ. We were all accused of having an 'agenda'. Utter nonsense.

What do points make? no prizes here, but 56 pages ffs, some squabble lets see who ends up wi the last word on this one.
:greengrin

[babahibs]

We're seven months, almost a quarter of the time, in to this project. He's had 33 competitive games. That's more than enough time for him to show signs of progress and improving us. I honestly don't think he's done that.

Ok, that's fine.

It's not your decision to make though.

[Dmas]

That’s not the question I asked is it ? It’s a simple question, do you think our squad is worse than the teams I mentioned ?

We have a handful of better individuals since January before Jan I’d have swapped out every single one of them, thing is though st.mirren and killie have the luxury of giving there manager more than 1 transfer window to build a squad that they can work with.

If any of the players I listed played for Dundee st.mirren or killie would you want hibs to sign them?

[JohnM1875]

Ok, that's fine.

It's not your decision to make though.

What a bizarre reply on a forum 😂

[babahibs]

What a bizarre reply on a forum 😂

What a bizarre reply on a forum

[Hibernian Verse]

What a bizarre interaction on a forum

[bingo70]

I feel that this post isn't getting the attention it deserves.

We're a few months into a 3 year project, he's going nowhere.

The ownership and strategy of the club has changed since that project started. That project was ripped up when the black knights got involved, the question now is if Montgomery is the right person to lead the new project.

Right now, he’s got a bit convincing to do.

[jeffers]

We have a handful of better individuals since January before Jan I’d have swapped out every single one of them, thing is though st.mirren and killie have the luxury of giving there manager more than 1 transfer window to build a squad that they can work with.

If any of the players I listed played for Dundee st.mirren or killie would you want hibs to sign them?

Do you mean before January you’d have swapped out every single one of our squad or every single one of the players you listed ? Maybe those managers earned the right to get more than one transfer window ?

Of the players you’ve listed personally I’d only sign Paul Hanlon, but that’s just my opinion. I’ve seen it mentioned plenty of times how Joe Newell is our best midfielder and would walk into every other team outwith the OF. There have also been a number of people say Rocky was good too.

Our squad absolutely has limitations, but we got rid of Johnson ‘cos he wasn’t making the most of what he had available. Monty is just the same, even with the quality we brought in this January.

[babahibs]

The ownership and strategy of the club has changed since that project started. That project was ripped up when the black knights got involved, the question now is if Montgomery is the right person to lead the new project.

Right now, he’s got a bit convincing to do.

Yeah, you definitely have a point here, I guess we'll all find out in time.

[Real Emerald]

What do points make? no prizes here, but 56 pages ffs, some squabble lets see who ends up wi the last word on this one.
:greengrin🤣

“Thanks for your service Monty, it’s a shame it didn’t work out. Best wishes in your next post”.

There you go 😂

[Callum_62]

We still had a full half of football to play at Tynecastle. There was way too much football to be played, that would have unfolded completely differently, to be able to say we would have won it. Who knows, if Fish got rid of the ball rather than hanging onto it he may have passed it straight to a Hearts player and they’d have scored anyway? He may have played it out to a Hibs player and we’d have scored?

The Ross County game, yes, I’d agree there’s a good chance we’d have won, because it would only have been about 30 seconds of football to unfold differently.

That being said though, the Ross County game was a wrongly awarded throw in. Ross County managed to capitalise on it by us being all over the shop. We’ll have had throw ins awarded to us. I find it hard to get all that angry about a throw in being awarded the wrong way, it happens all the time.You keep saying that like the only issue was a throw the wrong way

It's was a blatant throw to us no doubt given the wrong way then compounded by letting them take a quick throw a full 15 yards towards our goal

We went all over the shop but allowing the throw to happen how it did took out our whole midfield

The decision was bad but allowing to play quickly from a whole section of stand further forward was scandalous

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[Basildon Hibs]

Agree with that think at times the speed and accuracy of the passing could be better but some games we have controlled really well and Livi at home showed what our attacking players can do admittedly against a struggling team. The Hibs observer did an excellent tactical analysis of the Saints game and agreed with pretty much all of it including surprised Boyle starting for Youan and also the subs like Alf being taken off. It isn't perfect by any means and the criminal defending is killing us but still see enough to think a pre season clear out and replenish squad could mean much better next season. I hope whatever happens tomorrow the club come out and say he is staying for the foreseeable taking away any chat of the sack.

I hope they don't!😱😱

[Stevie Reid]

That’s not an unreasonable viewpoint. It’s also possible their respective managers are getting more out of the players they have at their disposal. All hypothetical but if you gave McIness, Docherty or Robinson the pick of our squad it would be interesting just how many they went for….The first two wanted to sign the much maligned Paul Hanlon as an example.

All hypothetical as you say, but I’ve said for a while now that it’s hard to imagine that those three managers - you could include Kettlewell also - wouldn’t have had much more from our squad at any stage of this season.

I also find it impossible to imagine St. Mirren, Killie and Dundee would be top six sides with NM in charge of the same players.

There have been many times in the league this season where I’ve looked at how those teams are managed and/or how they play (some of it, at least) and wanted that for us. I can’t imagine fans of any other SPL teams would look at us with any sort of admiration for how we play, or what our manager is trying to do with us.

I bet they enjoy playing against us though. Fans of other teams - Hearts especially - will likely be desperate for us to let NM continue into next season.

Ultimately we are over 30 games into his tenure and not one decent argument has been made why we should stick with NM. The best folk have got is that we played quite well in a handful of games, or played very well for a short spell in some others.

Results are not good and we are not improving even with new - and some very expensive - personnel. It’s nowhere near enough. We’ve not once looked like a really convincing football team.

[hibsbollah]

It’s frustrating because I don’t agree with you?. The ‘improved performances’ have imo been marginally improved at best, starting from an extremely low bar and delivered even less in terms of results than what was being delivered pre the window closing.

You’re going round suggesting that people are
unwilling to see the good. Really, as far as im concerned, there hasn’t been any.

I think i made it really clear in my post what i found frustrating. You give the impression of someone who takes much more time thinking of a barbed response to win an argument that actually to engage with what someone else has said. Im totally comfortable with people having different points of view, that’s actually my point, the Monty situation is a very difficult situation to assess and the certainly that certain folk have that their course is obviously the right one all the time is a bit misguided.

[jeffers]

All hypothetical as you say, but I’ve said for a while now that it’s hard to imagine that those three managers - you could include Kettlewell also - wouldn’t have had much more from our squad at any stage of this season.

I also find it impossible to imagine St. Mirren, Killie and Dundee would be top six sides with NM in charge of the same players.

There have been many times in the league this season where I’ve looked at how those teams are managed and/or how they play (some of it, at least) and wanted that for us. I can’t imagine fans of any other SPL teams would look at us with any sort of admiration for how we play, or what our manager is trying to do with us.

I bet they enjoy playing against us though. Fans of other teams - Hearts especially - will likely be desperate for us to let NM continue into next season.

Ultimately we are over 30 games into his tenure and not one decent argument has been made why we should stick with NM. The best folk have got is that we played quite well in a handful of games, or played very well for a short spell in some others.

Results are not good and we are not improving even with new - and some very expensive - personnel. It’s nowhere near enough. We’ve not once looked like a really convincing football team.


:agree: I agree with all of that Stevie and it’s a pretty damning indictment on Monty’s time with us.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Ok, that's fine.

It's not your decision to make though.

You’ve got to wonder if some folk realise what they’ve signed up for when they sign up to a fans forum :faf:

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think i made it really clear in my post what i found frustrating. You give the impression of someone who takes much more time thinking of a barbed response to win an argument that actually to engage with what someone else has said. Im totally comfortable with people having different points of view, that’s actually my point, the Monty situation is a very difficult situation to assess and the certainly that certain folk have that their course is obviously the right one all the time is a bit misguided.

Im sure you’ll no doubt have a go at me again as being a poster who makes barbed responses etc but I’m really struggling to see how the situation with Nick Montgomery is all that difficult to assess. The guy has been a catastrophic failure. It couldn’t be easier to assess imo. The guy has been here for almost a year and has nothing to show for it. You point to the club needing a new culture, I point to the fact we could do without a hopeless manager.

I’m sure you’ll be along to tell me that the better performances that have lead to us getting even less points are evidence of me making barbed response but lets be honest. They’re evidence of the fact we’ve not really got any better. Infact we’ve got worse. You’re making out like there is indisputable evidence of progress that people are unwilling to acknowledge. That couldn’t be further from the truth.

[Paulie Walnuts]

All hypothetical as you say, but I’ve said for a while now that it’s hard to imagine that those three managers - you could include Kettlewell also - wouldn’t have had much more from our squad at any stage of this season.

I also find it impossible to imagine St. Mirren, Killie and Dundee would be top six sides with NM in charge of the same players.

There have been many times in the league this season where I’ve looked at how those teams are managed and/or how they play (some of it, at least) and wanted that for us. I can’t imagine fans of any other SPL teams would look at us with any sort of admiration for how we play, or what our manager is trying to do with us.

I bet they enjoy playing against us though. Fans of other teams - Hearts especially - will likely be desperate for us to let NM continue into next season.

Ultimately we are over 30 games into his tenure and not one decent argument has been made why we should stick with NM. The best folk have got is that we played quite well in a handful of games, or played very well for a short spell in some others.

Results are not good and we are not improving even with new - and some very expensive - personnel. It’s nowhere near enough. We’ve not once looked like a really convincing football team.

:agree:

[Exuberance1875]

The Nick Montgomery project has been a shambles if you ask me, we were desperate for someone with genuine experience after the Maloney effort and then we had Mr LinkedIn himself in charge, yet we went for someone who started managing in 2021 with zero experience of the Scottish leagues.

33 games and he’s failed to win 66% of them, VAR decisions aside that’s just not good enough. January recruitment failed to address some of the key issues and whilst we did bring in some players who have made an impact they are highly unlikely to be here next season and I wouldn’t be overly keen on trusting him with a rebuild job.

Nothing against him personally, handles himself well and doesn’t shy away from critics but in my opinion it’s not worked out regardless if we scrape into top 6 or not, the fact it’s out of our hands should say it all

[Brightside]

The ownership and strategy of the club has changed since that project started. That project was ripped up when the black knights got involved, the question now is if Montgomery is the right person to lead the new project.

Right now, he’s got a bit convincing to do.

I think you are just assuming that Bingo. At the moment all we know is the BK guys are on board and have invested in infra. That’s it. No announcement on change in strategy etc. not to say there won’t be. But right now none of us know that.

[Brightside]

We're seven months, almost a quarter of the time, in to this project. He's had 33 competitive games. That's more than enough time for him to show signs of progress and improving us. I honestly don't think he's done that.

Again we are all just assuming that. What if he was told to come in. RIP it up. Start again and we will give you time.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Again we are all just assuming that. What if he was told to come in. RIP it up. Start again and we will give you time.

We’re assuming what? :confused:

I don’t think anything John has said is an assumption. Are we 33 games in? Yes. Is that more than enough time to show something? Anything? 100% yes.

I don’t think any of that is an assumption.

[Brightside]

We’re assuming what? :confused:

I don’t think anything John has said is an assumption. Are we 33 games in? Yes. Is that more than enough time to show something? Anything? 100% yes.

I don’t think any of that is an assumption.

We are assuming he will be sacked if this season is not a success. I thought I was pretty clear

[Exuberance1875]

We are assuming he will be sacked if this season is not a success. I thought I was pretty clear

I mean this season hasn’t been a success and won’t turn out to be if you ask me, making top 6 based on results elsewhere isn’t anything we should be celebrating

[Brightside]

I mean this season hasn’t been a success and won’t turn out to be if you ask me, making top 6 based on results elsewhere isn’t anything we should be celebrating

No one is celebrating it though. We all think it’s ****. BUT everyone is assuming he will be sacked for that.

[Dashing Bob S]

I think we should save money with the next guy and put him on a contract till November

[BILLYHIBS]

What do I think of him ?

Mair hope than expectation today

I cannot trust him to select a winning team or change things for the better when things start to go pear shaped as Motherwell will be well up for it

A travesty considering the attacking players at our disposal

We only have ourselves to blame

I hope I am proved to be wrong but the buck stops with him today

[Blaster]

I wouldn’t be fussy if he goes, I’m far from convinced he’s going to improve and has lost a large chunk of the support.

But some of the comments need a reality check. ‘Catastrophic’ I mean come on. Butcher and Duffy were catastrophic. NM has been poor, below where we should be as a team, but let’s keep some reality to it

[MWHIBBIES]

A constructive reply as always.

Good servants, however they’re not in their prime though and haven’t been for a number of seasons. With each passing season they, naturally, become less and less the answer. However until this season they never seemed to be transitioned out as first picks.

A good servant would be a Joe Newell. Lewis and Paul are nailed on Hibs legends.

Under Ross and Maloney, both were important in a very solid defence. It's only recently they've become less capable. Hanlon still isn't any worse than what starts for us.

[JimBHibees]

I think we should save money with the next guy and put him on a contract till November

Not wrong

[Brightside]

I think we should save money with the next guy and put him on a contract till November

Im a big fan of just having them in on 6 months contracts. Sets expectations.

[Smartie]

A good servant would be a Joe Newell. Lewis and Paul are nailed on Hibs legends.

Under Ross and Maloney, both were important in a very solid defence. It's only recently they've become less capable. Hanlon still isn't any worse than what starts for us.

They also started together this season during the type of notably competent defensive performance that has been rare to non existent since both players were ousted.

I think both have been edged out prematurely, personally.

[JimBHibees]

They also started together this season during the type of notably competent defensive performance that has been rare to non existent since both players were ousted.

I think both have been edged out prematurely, personally.

Personally think Lewis has looked way off it this season and Paul has been frequently injured or ill.

[Brightside]

Personally think Lewis has looked way off it this season and Paul has been frequently injured or ill.

Paul has been fit as he’s ever been for the last 6 months or so. There are simply being phased out. Just a shame they weren’t allowed to go in Jan.

[SickBoy32]

I think both have been edged out prematurely, personally.

Totally agree with this.

Bushiri is a disaster of a player and is by no means a better option than Hanlon. Bizarre to say the least.

Probably the biggest error of judgement shown by the manager IMO. That, and the fact he thought Triantis (another disaster) would improve our defence.

[Centre Hawf]

Personally think Lewis has looked way off it this season and Paul has been frequently injured or ill.

I think Obita has rightfully nailed the LB slot, but there has been times where Lewy for the final 10 minutes made sense or even to rotate with Obita for a rest. But it's clear that theres no appetite to use him whatsoever which is a shame.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It's also been rumoured that a bottom six finish would trigger an option for Hibs to terminate the contract without compensation, which (assuming it's correct) gives an idea of where Hibs draw the line in terms of acceptable minimum performance.

I really hope that's the case, any potential manager that isn't prepared to accept that clause isn't someone we should be looking to appoint in the first place.

[Winston Ingram]

They also started together this season during the type of notably competent defensive performance that has been rare to non existent since both players were ousted.

I think both have been edged out prematurely, personally.

I’d agree with this. Lewis was excellent at the start of the season. It’s amazed me how little game time Hanlon has got considering the performances of our other centre backs

[ScottB]

I wouldn’t be fussy if he goes, I’m far from convinced he’s going to improve and has lost a large chunk of the support.

But some of the comments need a reality check. ‘Catastrophic’ I mean come on. Butcher and Duffy were catastrophic. NM has been poor, below where we should be as a team, but let’s keep some reality to it

Yup, Monty is in that sort of Heckingbottom territory at the moment. We’ve had way worse darken our door.

[The Modfather]

They also started together this season during the type of notably competent defensive performance that has been rare to non existent since both players were ousted.

I think both have been edged out prematurely, personally.

Stevenson & Hanlon started away to the Andorran team, first game of the season against St Mirren, second game against Motherwell etc. As well as the positives like both legs against Luzern and at Pittodrie. Think it’s fair to say Stevenson & Hanlon were a mixed bag, along with most of the team, at the start of the season.

A mixed bag describes all our permutations in defence IMO. Even Rocky & Fish (outside of that penalty) looked competent over the 90 minutes at Tynecastle for example. Yet both looked like fish out of water (see what I did there) last weekend.

I’m not sure we would notice if any of the defence (Obita aside, though even then he’s better going forward than defending) were to leave tomorrow. I actually think the likes of Hanlon and Stevenson aren’t judged on the here and now in the way someone like Rocky is because of the goodwill they have built up rather than their actual contributions this season.

[JimBHibees]

Paul has been fit as he’s ever been for the last 6 months or so. There are simply being phased out. Just a shame they weren’t allowed to go in Jan.

He was ill for about a month was he not

[Since452]

Yup, Monty is in that sort of Heckingbottom territory at the moment. We’ve had way worse darken our door.

I'd say more Maloney territory. Hecky looks like Pep compared to him. Sorted out the mess Lennon left us in and got us top 6 and beat Hearts at Tynecastle along the way. Instant improvement. Sure he won a couple of manager of the month awards.

[Hibernian Verse]

I'd say more Maloney territory. Hecky looks like Pep compared to him. Sorted out the mess Lennon left us in and got us top 6 and beat Hearts at Tynecastle along the way. Instant improvement. Sure he won a couple of manager of the month awards.

I remember a 2-1 win with 10 men at St Johnstone. Sure McNulty scored, what a night.

[Brightside]

Based on yesterdays press conference I reckon there is even less chance that Monty will be leaving the club this season.

[B.H.F.C]

I'd say more Maloney territory. Hecky looks like Pep compared to him. Sorted out the mess Lennon left us in and got us top 6 and beat Hearts at Tynecastle along the way. Instant improvement. Sure he won a couple of manager of the month awards.

Aye all that happened before he went on a win of 1 win in 16 league games though.

[Alex Trager]

They also started together this season during the type of notably competent defensive performance that has been rare to non existent since both players were ousted.

I think both have been edged out prematurely, personally.

Hanlon I agree with, based on his replacements anyway.

Lewis, not for me. He’s not looked good whenever I’ve seen him this season.

[jeffers]

Based on yesterdays press conference I reckon there is even less chance that Monty will be leaving the club this season.

If things don’t improve then they better batten down the hatches ‘cos it’s going to get ugly.

[Allant1981]

Can't see him being sacked this season, clearly results haven't been good enough but I think he will be given a chance to get his own players in and see how it goes then

[Skol]

If we sack Montgomery I will be disappointed and I think it will be another mistake by the club. However things move on and I would need to accept it and get behind the new man.

I didn’t fancy Lennon but got behind him. Enjoyed the ride bit ultimately it ended in a messy fashion. We would all love another Mowbray and I still hope Monty can be that man. A 3-0 win today and the Dundee results going our way will be the start :flag:

[greenpaper55]

Anyone would think that Hanlon was Sergio Ramos ! Stevenson and Hanlon should have gone years ago and some on here pin the legend tag on them even though they are mediocre at best. One of the problems with our supporters is how legend status is heaped on players that were just not very good or worse such as Gordon Hunter , Benny, Tortolano , I have been called harsh by friends of my criticism but it was harsh on me watching these players for years.

[blackpoolhibs]

Paul has been fit as he’s ever been for the last 6 months or so. There are simply being phased out. Just a shame they weren’t allowed to go in Jan.

Dont think it's a shame to want a squad and have cover in it.

[Eyrie]

Based on yesterdays press conference I reckon there is even less chance that Monty will be leaving the club this season.

My thought was that it killed off using the suggestion a couple of weeks ago that he wasn't settled in Edinburgh as a polite way to part company with him.

All his comments did was make clear that he's committed to staying here but that shouldn't affect the evaluation of his performance over almost a full season which does not indicate that he is someone who will have us regularly competing for third. Instead Montgomery looks like he'll have us competing for fifth or sixth, with the attendant risk that we end up on the wrong side of the split.

[Centre Hawf]

Anyone would think that Hanlon was Sergio Ramos ! Stevenson and Hanlon should have gone years ago and some on here pin the legend tag on them even though they are mediocre at best. One of the problems with our supporters is how legend status is heaped on players that were just not very good or worse such as Gordon Hunter , Benny, Tortolano , I have been called harsh by friends of my criticism but it was harsh on me watching these players for years.

They are, by absolutely any metric you choose, club legends.

[sleeping giant]

Anyone would think that Hanlon was Sergio Ramos ! Stevenson and Hanlon should have gone years ago and some on here pin the legend tag on them even though they are mediocre at best. One of the problems with our supporters is how legend status is heaped on players that were just not very good or worse such as Gordon Hunter , Benny, Tortolano , I have been called harsh by friends of my criticism but it was harsh on me watching these players for years.

If Lewis Stevenson is not a club legend , them i have no idea who else could be.

[Heisenberg]

Anyone would think that Hanlon was Sergio Ramos ! Stevenson and Hanlon should have gone years ago and some on here pin the legend tag on them even though they are mediocre at best. One of the problems with our supporters is how legend status is heaped on players that were just not very good or worse such as Gordon Hunter , Benny, Tortolano , I have been called harsh by friends of my criticism but it was harsh on me watching these players for years.

Harsh on you watching Lewis lift two cups and Paul one aye? Lot of *****. Couldn’t be any better example of club legends.

[Since90+2]

Anyone would think that Hanlon was Sergio Ramos ! Stevenson and Hanlon should have gone years ago and some on here pin the legend tag on them even though they are mediocre at best. One of the problems with our supporters is how legend status is heaped on players that were just not very good or worse such as Gordon Hunter , Benny, Tortolano , I have been called harsh by friends of my criticism but it was harsh on me watching these players for years.

I agree that the suggestion Hanlon is the answer to our defensive questions seems bonkers, but they both absolutely are club legends. Scottish cup winners and have spent almost exclusively their entire careers at the club.

They might not be the amongst the greatest players ever to have graced the jersey, but they are still legends.

[The Tubs]

Joe Baker is one of our greatest legends and won no trophies. Trophies define the success of a club. These two players have helped us win trophies. Therefore, they are legends.

[MWHIBBIES]

Anyone would think that Hanlon was Sergio Ramos ! Stevenson and Hanlon should have gone years ago and some on here pin the legend tag on them even though they are mediocre at best. One of the problems with our supporters is how legend status is heaped on players that were just not very good or worse such as Gordon Hunter , Benny, Tortolano , I have been called harsh by friends of my criticism but it was harsh on me watching these players for years.

If Lewis isn't a legend, who is?

He is our most successful player in 70 years. Only one to win both cups, EVER. If Lewis isn't a legend, none of the tornadoes side are.

[Unseen work]

All hypothetical as you say, but I’ve said for a while now that it’s hard to imagine that those three managers - you could include Kettlewell also - wouldn’t have had much more from our squad at any stage of this season.

I also find it impossible to imagine St. Mirren, Killie and Dundee would be top six sides with NM in charge of the same players.

There have been many times in the league this season where I’ve looked at how those teams are managed and/or how they play (some of it, at least) and wanted that for us. I can’t imagine fans of any other SPL teams would look at us with any sort of admiration for how we play, or what our manager is trying to do with us.

I bet they enjoy playing against us though. Fans of other teams - Hearts especially - will likely be desperate for us to let NM continue into next season.

Ultimately we are over 30 games into his tenure and not one decent argument has been made why we should stick with NM. The best folk have got is that we played quite well in a handful of games, or played very well for a short spell in some others.

Results are not good and we are not improving even with new - and some very expensive - personnel. It’s nowhere near enough. We’ve not once looked like a really convincing football team.

Think that’s a really interesting point about where mccinnes, Docherty and Robinson would have our squad and where Monty would have their respective teams and I’m inclined to agree.

Docherty is one I’ve been really impressed with, loads of experience as a number 2 and took the chance to be the main man and done a really good job. Think his teams play very good football and he also speaks really well, he just sounds like a manager and leader.

[Smartie]

Hanlon I agree with, based on his replacements anyway.

Lewis, not for me. He’s not looked good whenever I’ve seen him this season.

I’m not really arguing that Stevenson should be starting every week ahead of Obita… but I definitely think there have been times when we might have used him but have not, such as when Obita was on a yellow against Rangers.

Their opportunities under Monty have been few and far between, often being sub appearances late in games where we’re already struggling, a difficult environment in which to shine.

I’m not going to deny that both have made guff contributions along the way this season but it’s also worth noting that both were constants in what we’re arguably our best moments of this season, right at the start, before Monty arrived.

And hunch just makes me think that we’d have been better off with a highly experienced left sided centre back who knows the league inside out and isn’t exactly over the hill at the heart of our defence alongside either Rocky or Fish rather than sitting on the bench watching a hopeless Sunderland reserve.

[superfurryhibby]

Dont think it's a shame to want a squad and have cover in it.

I find it strange that anyone would have wanted Hibs to release Hanlon in January when Rocky was away and for a spell Fish and Hanlon were our only centre halfs . Traintis was signed right at the end of the window. Can see the point if we had brought in a centre half early in the window, but even then we were short on numbers.

[SaulGoodman]

The most bored I’ve been watching Hibs. That says something.

[Bob Box Fish]

Can we sack him at half time

[Godsahibby]

This decision to keep Youan on is baffling.

[Jim44]

This decision to keep Youan on is baffling.

He gets the ball in good positions but you just know he’s going to do nothing with it with his final pass or shot.

[Winston Ingram]

Surely he can’t survive this. What an awful appointment he has been. Get this clown tae ****.

[JohnM1875]

Shame. But that has to be it

[sleeping giant]

Surely be punted this weekend.

[Smartie]

With regret - you’re fired.

[coldingham hibs]

Get him out now.

[Davy Mac]

With regret - you’re fired.

Exactly, no more apprentices please.

[hibee-boys]

The only saving grace ending up bottom 6 is that surely he’ll be punted. I’ve had my doubts the day he arrived, zero personality, terrible interviewer, awful subs, questionable tactics, boring football…..do one Monty.

[Wheat Hound]

Monty must go. Cannot coach/manage a team to defend or even keep the ball when in front. So uninspiring

[BarneyHibby]

Sack him now please...

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Has to go, bottom 6 is a disgrace.

[H18 SFR]

If we do the right thing and sack him now then we can start to build and more importantly to build excitement for next season - because right now there is zilch.

[we are hibs]

The manager is a joke but not as big as those running the club.

[Bobo]

Nowhere for him to go from here. The writing has been on the wall for far too long, it's time to get rid. Our biggest signing target has to be a competent and experienced, no nonsense manager and not another aimless punt on a clueless loser.

Maloney, Johnson and Montgomery, have taken us backwards in a piss poor league. We need football people in charge of our club because we've been a shambles for too long!

[TrinityHFC]

Has to go this evening. Was never the right guy, which is worrying about what we do next.

[Hibees1973]

It's for the best.

Can't just keep watching that every week hoping it's going to get better. What I can't believe is there are still some on hibs.net saying it is getting better. How they can see this.

Ian Gordon and the BK's are in charge here. They hold the power.

Sack Montgomery and sack Kensell immediately.

Would sack Ian Gordon as well, but sadly that's not possible.

[LunasBoots]

Bottom six after the backing he has had in January is unacceptable, has to go, he's not good enough.

['mon the beers]

Sack him now, Kensell shouldn’t be far behind him.

I can’t face going to watch us again this season, just crap.

[The Captain....]

Bye Nick, another inauspucious and dull period in the clubs history coughs, splutters and pulls up short of utter mediocrity.

Yet another appalling appointment by the untouchables.

Sent from my SM-S926B using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

No manager can be blamed for that equaliser.

Personally I thought we handled the game OK and got ourselves in front which should have been enough.

The real damage was done last week tho.

[Real Emerald]

He needs to go right now, no messing about. We should be planning for next season with a new management team ASAP. Get it done.

[LEaston87]

He needs to go. Failure to get top 6 is embarrassing. He only missed the first 4 league games of the season. The football is boring, there’s no drive, energy or aggression in the team, we can’t defend and his substitutions are baffling.

[asayers]

Most important game for a while and chucks on a lad who hasn’t played in 3 months for the most important 15 mins in a long time!! Says it all!!!!!

[chrisski33]

No manager can be blamed for that equaliser.

Personally I thought we handled the game OK and got ourselves in front which should have been enough.

The real damage was done last week tho.

Pish. Monty needs to go. Got a goal via a soft penalty

[McGruber]

Must win game and our 2 strikers don't get off the bench

[Vault Boy]

Yeah, he should probably get his jotters now. We had a poor start domestically under Johnson, but Monty has had more than enough time to secure top 6, the position was far from insurmountable given how early on in the season we changed managers.

Bottom 6 is totally unacceptable, especially with the amount we’ve spent.

[Hibiza]

Needs to go .

[Coach Jon]

Totally out of his depth, the club have taken steps to move us forward, there is now Black Knight representation on the board, they wont put up with this. We will have a new manager for next season.

[Greenio]

Whether he goes or not is 50/50. They could wait till wed, come out with a statement, mutual agreement, etc etc.

Or, he could stay, disappointed not to get top 6, but focused on future, etc etc

Its honestly, just up to them really

I wouldnt be that fussed if he did go so long as the appointment of a new manager was done swiftly. Another roll of the dice does not make me happier than if we keep him though

[The Harp Awakes]

Every sub he has ever made has made us worse and weakened the team.

[The_Exile]

I'm usually in the camp to give someone until the end of the season, especially with nothing to play for, gives us more time to plan. However, with 15 points to play for and 12 points off the playoff, I'm still not convinced we're safe with this guy in charge! We need one win, but I'm not confident of beating anybody at the moment. I think we'll finish around 9th. How much is the difference in prize money between 7th and 9th?

[JohnM1875]

Seconds away from a win and undone by a throw in again. Montgomery has been unlucky for sure, but he's not surviving a bottom six finish.

Seems like a great guy, but I hope that release clause for not making the top six is real. Find out soon I guess.

[Winston Ingram]

No manager can be blamed for that equaliser.

Personally I thought we handled the game OK and got ourselves in front which should have been enough.

The real damage was done last week tho.

He’s no getting blamed for the equaliser. He’s getting blamed for being a rank rotten manager who’s won 8 league games out of 30 and landed us in the bottom 6.