Thoughts on the manager

[Brightside]

I’ve defended Monty throughout his time in charge however if we were to fail to make top 6 and he got sacked, I don’t think anybody could say the sacking would be harsh.

If he makes top 6, there’s a conversation and a decision to be had about the level of progress or lack of it since coming in but failure to make top 6 then I couldn’t imagine any argument for him staying on other than the people who crave stability regardless of any other factors.

He was brought in on a project and a 3 year deal. If he was told at that time "If you don't get top 6 you are sacked" then fine, sack him. I don't think he has been told that based on the stuff that Brian / Malcolm and others have said in the last few months.
Killie gave McInnes time. (2 years 2 months +) St Mirren have given Robinson time. (2 year 1 month +)

Just let the project run.

[Brightside]

I agree that it wasn’t a masterclass by Levein, but the goals we conceded weren’t just 2 daft mistakes, they were piss poor defending. The second one especially, cannae call it a daft mistake when it seems like it happens all the time.

Masterclass or not though, Levein is getting the praise he deserves from the BBC. We shouldn’t be getting turned over by St Johnstone at home, great result for them.

One mans piss poor defending is another 2 daft mistakes. :greengrin. It is piss poor defending. Hopefully we have better after the summer.

[bingo70]

He was brought in on a project and a 3 year deal. If he was told at that time "If you don't get top 6 you are sacked" then fine, sack him. I don't think he has been told that based on the stuff that Brian / Malcolm and others have said in the last few months.
Killie gave McInnes time. (2 years 2 months +) St Mirren have given Robinson time. (2 year 1 month +)

Just let the project run.

I disagree.

I think managers getting time just because you crave stability isn’t reason enough to keep someone.

There has to be some short term progress IMO.

Hypothetically speaking, what happens if we finish bottom 6 again next year? It’s a 3 year project he was given so would we just give him another year? IMO there has to be a line and points where you to stop and review progress as to how the progress is going. If it’s not, then it makes complete sense to me to not waste any more time waiting in the hope things might come good.

Bad recruitment happens, I’m not as angry at Kensell and others for it not working out, appointing someone isn’t an exact science and things can go wrong. I don’t think Montgomery has ever seemed comfortable here, if we don’t make top 6 I think progress needs to be reviewed and if that happens there’s only one outcome imo.

[easty]

He was brought in on a project and a 3 year deal. If he was told at that time "If you don't get top 6 you are sacked" then fine, sack him. I don't think he has been told that based on the stuff that Brian / Malcolm and others have said in the last few months.
Killie gave McInnes time. (2 years 2 months +) St Mirren have given Robinson time. (2 year 1 month +)

Just let the project run.

The Killie and St Mirren projects got time because they weren’t throwing anywhere near the money at them as we have.

If we’d been signing the level of player they have been in that time, I’d not be as vocal about binning the manager. We spend far too much money to be comparing our project/ambitions to St Mirren and Killie.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I disagree.

I think managers getting time just because you crave stability isn’t reason enough to keep someone.

There has to be some short term progress IMO.

Hypothetically speaking, what happens if we finish bottom 6 again next year? It’s a 3 year project he was given so would we just give him another year? IMO there has to be a line and points where you to stop and review progress as to how the progress is going. If it’s not, then it makes complete sense to me to not waste any more time waiting in the hope things might come good.

Bad recruitment happens, I’m not as angry at Kensell and others for it not working out, appointing someone isn’t an exact science and things can go wrong. I don’t think Montgomery has ever seemed comfortable here, if we don’t make top 6 I think progress needs to be reviewed and if that happens there’s only one outcome imo.

This.

[Hibernian Verse]

I disagree.

I think managers getting time just because you crave stability isn’t reason enough to keep someone.

There has to be some short term progress IMO.

Hypothetically speaking, what happens if we finish bottom 6 again next year? It’s a 3 year project he was given so would we just give him another year? IMO there has to be a line and points where you to stop and review progress as to how the progress is going. If it’s not, then it makes complete sense to me to not waste any more time waiting in the hope things might come good.

Bad recruitment happens, I’m not as angry at Kensell and others for it not working out, appointing someone isn’t an exact science and things can go wrong. I don’t think Montgomery has ever seemed comfortable here, if we don’t make top 6 I think progress needs to be reviewed and if that happens there’s only one outcome imo.

Bingo, you're right about the short term progress. There has been that since the end of Jan under NM in my opinion. Re the line you're talking about, you wouldn't just give him another year no, there has to be progress year on year but sacking him after 7 months is too early if he is on the 3 year project that is spoken about.

Not hitting the top six will mean he has to get off to a flyer next season or the pressure will be insurmountable. Being sacked in season 2 of the project is completely reasonable and he could have no gripes about it if it's not looking good.

The problem with some fans is that the "line" is just the next bad result. It's human nature. That said, the "line" for the club hierarchy will be much less emotion based.

(I might change my mind at 5pm on Saturday).

[Paulie Walnuts]

Bingo, you're right about the short term progress. There has been that since the end of Jan under NM in my opinion. Re the line you're talking about, you wouldn't just give him another year no, there has to be progress year on year but sacking him after 7 months is too early if he is on the 3 year project that is spoken about.

Not hitting the top six will mean he has to get off to a flyer next season or the pressure will be insurmountable. Being sacked in season 2 of the project is completely reasonable and he could have no gripes about it if it's not looking good.

The problem with some fans is that the "line" is just the next bad result. It's human nature. That said, the "line" for the club hierarchy will be much less emotion based.

(I might change my mind at 5pm on Saturday).

Being sacked in season 2 would be disastrous compared to cutting our losses at the end of season 1 imo.

We’d have the same crap we’ve had this year with a new guy coming in the door once Montgomery gets sacked, having to deal with even more guys signed to play for Montgomery, no players of his own etc.

I’ve absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we keep Montgomery into next season then next season will be another utter shambles when he inevitably fails and gets sacked.

[Jones28]

I think top six should be a prerequisite for any prospective Hibs manager (obviously depending on when they're appointed). They should be told at the interview process that failure to meet that will result in the termination of their contract. It's the bare minimum required. It should be unconditional.

Finishing bottom six after joining 4 games in, one of which we won, is nothing short of a catastrophic failure. No excuse for it and a club like ours shouldn't be accepting it. I'd be very disappointed if we accepted that level of underperformance.

Lets see if he somehow salvages it.

:agree: 100%

It's not like we're asking for much.

[Brightside]

I disagree.

I think managers getting time just because you crave stability isn’t reason enough to keep someone.

There has to be some short term progress IMO.

Hypothetically speaking, what happens if we finish bottom 6 again next year? It’s a 3 year project he was given so would we just give him another year? IMO there has to be a line and points where you to stop and review progress as to how the progress is going. If it’s not, then it makes complete sense to me to not waste any more time waiting in the hope things might come good.

Bad recruitment happens, I’m not as angry at Kensell and others for it not working out, appointing someone isn’t an exact science and things can go wrong. I don’t think Montgomery has ever seemed comfortable here, if we don’t make top 6 I think progress needs to be reviewed and if that happens there’s only one outcome imo.

I think we have improved as a team since Jan. We've had some results that clearly haven't gone our way but looking above that I don't think I'm the only one thats seen a team that is improving and also a style of football thats in the main enjoyable to watch. We are only 6 months in - He surely gets a full recruitment cycle.

What if the club made the line for improvement 18 months? I don't think WE get to decide on the line. The people that run the club make that decision. They either decide they are seeing recovery or they bin him. But when they do that shouldn't be governed by the fans. They did that with Jack Ross.

[Hibernian Verse]

Being sacked in season 2 would be disastrous compared to cutting our losses at the end of season 1 imo.

We’d have the same crap we’ve had this year with a new guy coming in the door once Montgomery gets sacked, having to deal with even more guys signed to play for Montgomery, no players of his own etc.

I’ve absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we keep Montgomery into next season then next season will be another utter shambles when he inevitably fails and gets sacked.

Agree with your first point, but with no guarantee that cutting our losses actually improves the situation. That's the balancing act that the lads that run the club have to get right which they have not proven very good at so far.

You should have some doubt in your mind, as you must know that you can't tell the future. He won't be kept into a third season if he starts poorly next anyway.

[Brightside]

Being sacked in season 2 would be disastrous compared to cutting our losses at the end of season 1 imo.

We’d have the same crap we’ve had this year with a new guy coming in the door once Montgomery gets sacked, having to deal with even more guys signed to play for Montgomery, no players of his own etc.

I’ve absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we keep Montgomery into next season then next season will be another utter shambles when he inevitably fails and gets sacked.

But we are signing better players since Jan yeh? Can we agree on that ( in the main)

[Jones28]

Being sacked in season 2 would be disastrous compared to cutting our losses at the end of season 1 imo.

We’d have the same crap we’ve had this year with a new guy coming in the door once Montgomery gets sacked, having to deal with even more guys signed to play for Montgomery, no players of his own etc.

I’ve absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we keep Montgomery into next season then next season will be another utter shambles when he inevitably fails and gets sacked.

The inevitable early season sacking = transitional season = apathy.

You can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

Stop giving managers who aren't up to the job the summer to rebuild, only to sack them early in the new season.

[HFC 0-7]

Ripped a new one? They didn’t have a single shot on target first half, fish got replaced because his passing was brutal and kept giving the ball away, Triantis is better on the ball than him, they caused no threats first half at all for NM to consider

Triantis isn’t the best on the ball either. The amount of times he misplaced passes or passed it right out the pitch at the weekend was shocking. I’m not convinced by him at all.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think we have improved as a team since Jan. We've had some results that clearly haven't gone our way but looking above that I don't think I'm the only one thats seen a team that is improving and also a style of football thats in the main enjoyable to watch. We are only 6 months in - He surely gets a full recruitment cycle.

What if the club made the line for improvement 18 months? I don't think WE get to decide on the line. The people that run the club make that decision. They either decide they are seeing recovery or they bin him. But when they do that shouldn't be governed by the fans. They did that with Jack Ross.

This is his 8th month.

I think it’s also clear from this forum at least that whilst you're not the only one that thinks it's enjoyable to watch, you’re most certainly in a small minority.

What’s a full recruitment cycle? A summer and a winter window? Or the chance to build a full squad? The latter would be suicidal imo. That takes years to complete and years to undo. It would essentially mean leaving Montgomerys fingerprints all over a squad for about 5 or 6 years.

[Paulie Walnuts]

But we are signing better players since Jan yeh? Can we agree on that ( in the main)

Better players than when?

Maolida has been a better player. After that though, I’d suggest Youan, Obita, ALF for example who were signed in the summer have offered more than anyone else that was signed in January.

Overall I don’t think the January window screams great success or great failure. Maolida has been a shining light, the rest have hardly set the heather on fire.

[Brightside]

Triantis isn’t the best on the ball either. The amount of times he misplaced passes or passed it right out the pitch at the weekend was shocking. I’m not convinced by him at all.

He won't be here after the summer anyway.

[Brightside]

Better players than when?

Maolida has been a better player. After that though, I’d suggest Youan, Obita, ALF for example who were signed in the summer have offered more than anyone else that was signed in January.

Overall I don’t think the January window screams great success or great failure. Maolida has been a shining light, the rest have hardly set the heather on fire.

NMW and Marcondes are both better than what we've had. I think both are top class players who would play pretty much every game for us when fit.
Bevan didn't play so we don't know.
Triantis is clearly a stop gap for cover.
Amos has looked decent prior to injury.

So in the main we are bringing in better players than previously. So even if we keep doing that and give the guy 18 months we should still be in a better place IF the club get rid after 18 months.

[Since452]

Being sacked in season 2 would be disastrous compared to cutting our losses at the end of season 1 imo.

We’d have the same crap we’ve had this year with a new guy coming in the door once Montgomery gets sacked, having to deal with even more guys signed to play for Montgomery, no players of his own etc.

I’ve absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we keep Montgomery into next season then next season will be another utter shambles when he inevitably fails and gets sacked.

It's quite similar to the Lee Johnson situation. We were poor for the first half of the season and then picked up somewhat and scraped in to the top 6. We actually finished the season pretty strongly and the club gave him the start of this season. By that point though there were warning signs. I was one of the few that was for him staying as there was "improvement" and i was behind him right up until the Livingston game. I was ultimately wrong and in hindsight he should have been replaced at the end of the season.

I don't want history repeating itself. We are actually worse this season than last season. I've learned as a fan from last season and i hope the club have too.

[Dmas]

Triantis isn’t the best on the ball either. The amount of times he misplaced passes or passed it right out the pitch at the weekend was shocking. I’m not convinced by him at all.

No he never had the best of games either for sure, he has done well in midfield though and does pass the ball better than either of our CBs I don’t think that can be debated, so you can see the reason for him moving back to replace fish, he’s not looked comfortable at CB though

[Enolam]

I disagree.
There has to be some short term progress IMO.


I agree and think there's definitely been progress in how we're being brave playing out from the back and keeping possession. There has to be more midfield guile and attacking intent to go with that though, especially in the first half where mostly we've been sat there bored thinking about what pie to get at half-time. Monty deserves another season to see if he can deliver more excitement, goals, and a much better league position.

[Paulie Walnuts]

NMW and Marcondes are both better than what we've had. I think both are top class players who would play pretty much every game for us when fit.
Bevan didn't play so we don't know.
Triantis is clearly a stop gap for cover.
Amos has looked decent prior to injury.

So in the main we are bringing in better players than previously. So even if we keep doing that and give the guy 18 months we should still be in a better place IF the club get rid after 18 months.

I like NMW but at the end of the day, he rarely manages to complete 90 minutes and is now struggling to get in the team. It’s hard to judge that as a really succesfull signing imo. Decent, yes, but no more than that. Marcondes has had as many poor-average games as he’s had good ones, so again, hard to judge that as more than decent.

Bevan was a complete failure of a signing due to our desperate need for a centre half and him never playing before being sent back, Triantis has been a funny one because again, his total inability to play centre half where you’d have to presume he was signed for has left us so weak in there, but he has managed to do well in midfield.

Amos has hardly kicked a ball and it was something you could almost guarantee would happen, so again, at this point in time, it’s a failed signing. Mayenda has also offered absolutely nothing, so a failed signing again.

Given that in the summer we signed ALF, who many think is our best forward, Youan, who is probably our best player outside of Maolida in terms of output and Obita who many are touting for POTY then I’m not sure it’s been that huge an improvement. Maolida has been the star, if it hadn’t been for him though then I’d suggest it would have been a failure of a window.

[KeithTheHibby]

But we are signing better players since Jan yeh? Can we agree on that ( in the main)

Why have the results not improved then?
Playing devils advocate here.

[Brightside]

Why have the results not improved then?
Playing devils advocate here.

Daft mistakes and VAR errors. Its not a simulation unfortunately otherwise we'd have won on Saturday quite comfortably.

[jeffers]

I think we have improved as a team since Jan. We've had some results that clearly haven't gone our way but looking above that I don't think I'm the only one thats seen a team that is improving and also a style of football thats in the main enjoyable to watch. We are only 6 months in - He surely gets a full recruitment cycle.

What if the club made the line for improvement 18 months? I don't think WE get to decide on the line. The people that run the club make that decision. They either decide they are seeing recovery or they bin him. But when they do that shouldn't be governed by the fans. They did that with Jack Ross.

I can’t agree with you B. As I said on the PM board it’s the signing of Maolida that’s the difference between there being a discussion about sacking Monty and having already done so. That’s a player on £20k+ pw, who we probably have no chance of seeing in a Hibs shirt next season and finding someone of similar quality is going to be extremely difficult.

Monty has shown absolutely nothing to me to suggest he’s on the right track and is worth sticking with. If I did see that I’d agree he should get more time. I also disagree about the football in the main being enjoyable to watch, in the main I’m bored rigid watching us under him. Then add in his failure to address the defence (which everyone of us could see needed fixed) while sidelining our best CB. He continually makes subs that weaken us, the fact he perseveres with Tavares is a major red flag.

Unlike his predecessor I think Monty is a decent guy, but with the players out of contract in the summer we should cut our losses with him and give a new man the chance to take over pre season. If we make the same mistake we did with Johnson I can only see the same thing happening and we end up punting Monty at some point and probably writing off another season.

[Smartie]

I think we have improved as a team since Jan. We've had some results that clearly haven't gone our way but looking above that I don't think I'm the only one thats seen a team that is improving and also a style of football thats in the main enjoyable to watch. We are only 6 months in - He surely gets a full recruitment cycle.

What if the club made the line for improvement 18 months? I don't think WE get to decide on the line. The people that run the club make that decision. They either decide they are seeing recovery or they bin him. But when they do that shouldn't be governed by the fans. They did that with Jack Ross.

If he were to be able to keep the midfield much the same and improve the defence to the extent that he (or we, Hibs, the club, B McD, the recruitment dept) improved the midfield in January then I certainly think he'd be worth more time.

I'm on the fence with this one tbh. Hard to justify keeping managers who don't make top 6 and you can see enough of his imprint on the failure to make top 6 to make him culpable but I do see improvement and acknowledge the mitigating factors of the past few months.

I'd also like to see us give somebody a proper crack of the whip which I don't think we really ever do.

[Donegal Hibby]

It's quite similar to the Lee Johnson situation. We were poor for the first half of the season and then picked up somewhat and scraped in to the top 6. We actually finished the season pretty strongly and the club gave him the start of this season. By that point though there were warning signs. I was one of the few that was for him staying as there was "improvement" and i was behind him right up until the Livingston game. I was ultimately wrong and in hindsight he should have been replaced at the end of the season.

I don't want history repeating itself. We are actually worse this season than last season. I've learned as a fan from last season and i hope the club have too.

When you consider though Monty took over the team bottom of the league from our previous manager who had a summer transfer window then a January one and then another summer one plus a pre-season training camp in both Algarve and Marbella .

I do think both managers situations aren't similar in what they have been given to turn things around btw .If we are only going to give a manager as little time as this i think we're in bother .

Even if Monty goes now I still think a new manager is going to need longer than that in fairness.

[Centre Hawf]

I can’t agree with you B. As I said on the PM board it’s the signing of Maolida that’s the difference between there being a discussion about sacking Monty and having already done so. That’s a player on £20k+ pw, who we probably have no chance of seeing in a Hibs shirt next season and finding someone of similar quality is going to be extremely difficult.

Monty has shown absolutely nothing to me to suggest he’s on the right track and is worth sticking with. If I did see that I’d agree he should get more time. I also disagree about the football in the main being enjoyable to watch, in the main I’m bored rigid watching us under him. Then add in his failure to address the defence (which everyone of us could see needed fixed) while sidelining our best CB. He continually makes subs that weaken us, the fact he perseveres with Tavares is a major red flag.

Unlike his predecessor I think Monty is a decent guy, but with the players out of contract in the summer we should cut our losses with him and give a new man the chance to take over pre season. If we make the same mistake we did with Johnson I can only see the same thing happening and we end up punting Monty at some point and probably writing off another season.

I think this is the important part for me. This summer could be a real opportunity to clear the decks and start again at the club with the new investment and any potential help from BK in terms of our scouting/recruitment or whatever else they can help with.

We've been fixing the plane while still flying it for years now and that's always going to be tough to do, and it only gets you so far before it needs to be fully overhauled. This summer we could nearly have a different starting XI entirely from the one we had first game or two of this season, no guarantees it's a better one mind you.

I think it could be a real missed opportunity if we were to keep hold of this manager and find ourselves looking for his replacement in September/October because we didn't take stock of the warnings we've seen so far this season out of blind hope and optimism only to find us back to where we are currently where we are writing of 5/6/7 players and needing to get a new managers signings sealed in the summer of 2025 before we can fully judge him as well.

[One Day Soon]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/exclusive-hibs-boss-future-fan-hurt-quick-fix-4584529

Doesn’t sound like he’s planning on leaving or isn’t settled

If that is the totality of the interview and the actual words he used then its one of the worst interviews I can recall ever reading from a Hibs manager. From any manager in fact. Vapid, beige, trite, meaningless, punchless, nothingness. A lot like a lot of our football to be honest. No surprise there.

He have been better off saying nothing without speaking rather than saying nothing using his words.

[One Day Soon]

We had 70% possession in the game. We had 13 corners to their 3. Their goalies made 6 saves to our goalie ZERO. We had 13 shots - 6 on target. They had 6 shots - 2 on target. Everything points to us dominating the game and our tactics being correct. Any manager is going to struggle with players making individual errors. (Both players have been highly praised on this from this season)

We weren't close to being out-thought by a more experienced SPL manager. Individual errors and VAR is why we are in the bottom 6.

This recurring apologia for the manager is wearing rather thin across an entire season. Stats this and stats that, the result was a 2-1 defeat to an awful St Johnstone side who couldn't buy a win. We've won just 9 games all season and we're reduced to a Hail Mary to try to scrape into the top 6.

Levein's plan was to defend, soak up all the pressure, hit us on the counter with his fast forward and look to benefit (like everyone else does) from our self-harming defence. His plan worked perfectly, NM was out-thought and outplayed.

Possession is worth **** all if huge chunks of it are in your own third and going nowhere.

[One Day Soon]

The Killie and St Mirren projects got time because they weren’t throwing anywhere near the money at them as we have.

If we’d been signing the level of player they have been in that time, I’d not be as vocal about binning the manager. We spend far too much money to be comparing our project/ambitions to St Mirren and Killie.

Not to mention the depth and quality of the squad already available to incoming managers relative to St Mirren and Kilmarnock. Hibs is a high pressure job because our budget suggests we should be regularly at least challenging for third place, not necessarily achieving it, but certainly in the mix through the season. We are miles off that.

[Callum_62]

If that is the totality of the interview and the actual words he used then its one of the worst interviews I can recall ever reading from a Hibs manager. From any manager in fact. Vapid, beige, trite, meaningless, punchless, nothingness. A lot like a lot of our football to be honest. No surprise there.

He have been better off saying nothing without speaking rather than saying nothing using his words.Think you are well over reacting to a typed piece of media

Plus

https://youtu.be/jwGWgItWw7s?si=nL3Dv0uxvrz3NJBl

https://youtu.be/0juSJ6f3X24?si=gIQma5nsR87UCNO9

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[H18 SFR]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/exclusive-hibs-boss-future-fan-hurt-quick-fix-4584529

Doesn’t sound like he’s planning on leaving or isn’t settled

Happy to read what he says but I simply can’t listen to him.

I’m not a fan of a board or owner giving a public vote of confidence, however I honestly think they need to in this case but I suspect they know it will likely impact ST switherers who haven’t purchased yet. The thought of this until the end of his three year contract is a worry.

[One Day Soon]

Being sacked in season 2 would be disastrous compared to cutting our losses at the end of season 1 imo.

We’d have the same crap we’ve had this year with a new guy coming in the door once Montgomery gets sacked, having to deal with even more guys signed to play for Montgomery, no players of his own etc.

I’ve absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we keep Montgomery into next season then next season will be another utter shambles when he inevitably fails and gets sacked.


This. We've seen this movie before and it was a ***** watch all the other times too.

[The Modfather]

Not to mention the depth and quality of the squad already available to incoming managers relative to St Mirren and Kilmarnock. Hibs is a high pressure job because our budget suggests we should be regularly at least challenging for third place, not necessarily achieving it, but certainly in the mix through the season. We are miles off that.

What is the depth & quality of the squad? On Saturday our bench was NMW & Youan (with Vente out injured but still to fully convince) plus 7 players who would weaken the starting 11 and who you don’t really want to bring any of them on.

Wollacot
Hanlon
Stevenson
Levitt
Campbell
Tavares
Mayenda

That’s a bottom 6 bench and relegation battle in some cases. We have about 13 or 14 players we should be doing better with and an overall squad punching it’s weight IMO

[Since452]

If that is the totality of the interview and the actual words he used then its one of the worst interviews I can recall ever reading from a Hibs manager. From any manager in fact. Vapid, beige, trite, meaningless, punchless, nothingness. A lot like a lot of our football to be honest. No surprise there.

He have been better off saying nothing without speaking rather than saying nothing using his words.

He opens his mouth and lets the words come out. Can't listen to it for more than 10seconds now. Utterly boring uninspiring drivel.

[One Day Soon]

Think you are well over reacting to a typed piece of media

Plus

https://youtu.be/jwGWgItWw7s?si=nL3Dv0uxvrz3NJBl

https://youtu.be/0juSJ6f3X24?si=gIQma5nsR87UCNO9

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk


To the extent that it is full of anything it is composed of assertions, platitudes and excuses. There's no attempt to explain what 'progress' is being made, what it is that he thinks the club needs and what he is seeking to do. From a manager who is on the verge of either failing to hit top six or just scraping into it by the skin of his teeth it is a terrible interview.

It does nothing to allay the legitimate concerns of supporters, nothing to galvanise us and is largely a self-justificatory exercise rooted in previous serial claims that a selection of related dogs have been eating his homework for most of the season. The VAR spaniel, the injuries corgi, the international duty dalmation, the referees dachshund.

If you are placing it in the context of your Malofeev and Cathro selections then I think you're about right.

[Centre Hawf]

What is the depth & quality of the squad? On Saturday our bench was NMW & Youan (with Vente out injured but still to fully convince) plus 7 players who would weaken the starting 11 and who you don’t really want to bring any of them on.

Wollacot
Hanlon
Stevenson
Levitt
Campbell
Tavares
Mayenda

That’s a bottom 6 bench and relegation battle in some cases. We have about 13 or 14 players we should be doing better with and an overall squad punching it’s weight IMO

My only thing I'd say is do you think that St Mirren/Killie/Dundee would all jump to have a handful of them at least on their bench? Other than Tavares I think on my initial hunch is that they would all be better options than their benched equivalents at those clubs.

That's not to say it's a good bench by any means but there's players in there that should be capable of doing a job when brought in (Hanlon, Stevenson, Campbell, Levitt, Wollacot)

[flash]

This recurring apologia for the manager is wearing rather thin across an entire season. Stats this and stats that, the result was a 2-1 defeat to an awful St Johnstone side who couldn't buy a win. We've won just 9 games all season and we're reduced to a Hail Mary to try to scrape into the top 6.

Levein's plan was to defend, soak up all the pressure, hit us on the counter with his fast forward and look to benefit (like everyone else does) from our self-harming defence. His plan worked perfectly, NM was out-thought and outplayed.

Possession is worth **** all if huge chunks of it are in your own third and going nowhere.

How did Levein out think anybody?

If we had been awarded the penalty we should have and scored it would going a goal down been part of his cunning plan?

There really is an inordinate amount of pish waffled on this forum.

[Paulie Walnuts]

What is the depth & quality of the squad? On Saturday our bench was NMW & Youan (with Vente out injured but still to fully convince) plus 7 players who would weaken the starting 11 and who you don’t really want to bring any of them on.

Wollacot
Hanlon
Stevenson
Levitt
Campbell
Tavares
Mayenda

That’s a bottom 6 bench and relegation battle in some cases. We have about 13 or 14 players we should be doing better with and an overall squad punching it’s weight IMO

That’s generally how the bench works, its players that would weaken the first 11 :confused: Unless a team is deliberately playing a weakened starting 11 then that will be the case for every team in the world. Real Madrid had a bench with vast majority players that would weaken their starting 11 last night. It doesn’t mean they don’t have depth and quality.

You say that’s a bottom 6 bench, but let’s look at the bench of St J, who are the absolute definition of bottom 6, on Saturday:

Dave Richards
Connor Smith
Fran Franczak
Cameron McPherson
Graham Carey
Ali Crawford
Stevie May
Benjamin Mbunga Kimpioka

You’re not genuinely claiming our bench is as bad as that?

You can look at every bench at every team from 4th downwards. I don’t believe our bench is worse than any of them. Every team in our league outside the Old Firm would be in a relegation battle if they suddenly had to play their whole bench as their starting 11.

[One Day Soon]

What is the depth & quality of the squad? On Saturday our bench was NMW & Youan (with Vente out injured but still to fully convince) plus 7 players who would weaken the starting 11 and who you don’t really want to bring any of them on.

Wollacot
Hanlon
Stevenson
Levitt
Campbell
Tavares
Mayenda

That’s a bottom 6 bench and relegation battle in some cases. We have about 13 or 14 players we should be doing better with and an overall squad punching it’s weight IMO

It's a squad that's not good enough but is still at least as good as those of Kilmarnock and St Mirren, if not better. Teams that are respectively 10 and 5 points ahead of us after an almost full season. We have a long way to go in getting our first team and our squad right, but he should be getting way better out of what he's already got.

[JimBHibees]

Personally would keep Montgomery as to me has been enough to think it can get better. Certainly clear areas for improvement though like the idea of a coach being given the chance to build something. Do get the impression he will likely be replaced and the result and performance at the weekend has certainly put him on the back foot though I genuinely have sympathy for him and the team given the sheer volume of bad calls by refs

[One Day Soon]

How did Levein out think anybody?

If we had been awarded the penalty we should have and scored it would going a goal down been part of his cunning plan?

There really is an inordinate amount of pish waffled on this forum.


Absolutely tremendous 'if my auntie had baws' stuff there. I don't know about pish but there's certainly an inordinate amount of 5hit talked.

You're right though, if we hadn't been beaten 2-1 we might have had a different score. If we hadn't been beaten 2-1 that is.

[hibsbollah]

Personally would keep Montgomery as to me has been enough to think it can get better. Certainly clear areas for improvement though like the idea of a coach being given the chance to build something. Do get the impression he will likely be replaced and the result and performance at the weekend has certainly put him on the back foot though I genuinely have sympathy for him and the team given the share volume of bad calls by refs

This is my position too. Context IS important, its not a ‘if my auntie had baws’ discussion; there is no doubt in my mind that performances have improved since the nadir in early Feb, and we’ve been the recipient of some really bad luck in that time that has contributed to where we are. I’d persevere for now.

[bingo70]

Bingo, you're right about the short term progress. There has been that since the end of Jan under NM in my opinion. Re the line you're talking about, you wouldn't just give him another year no, there has to be progress year on year but sacking him after 7 months is too early if he is on the 3 year project that is spoken about.

Not hitting the top six will mean he has to get off to a flyer next season or the pressure will be insurmountable. Being sacked in season 2 of the project is completely reasonable and he could have no gripes about it if it's not looking good.

The problem with some fans is that the "line" is just the next bad result. It's human nature. That said, the "line" for the club hierarchy will be much less emotion based.

(I might change my mind at 5pm on Saturday).

As you say at the end, a lot might come down to the result on Saturday.

We’ve finished with a relatively favourable run of fixtures, we went into the final two games needing to beat St Johnstone and Motherwell, failure to win them and I think it’s difficult to argue there’s been much improvement since January.

If we beat Motherwell but don’t make top 6 my stance will likely soften a bit, if we can’t win either of those two must win games then I don’t think any argument we have improved since January really stands up to much scrutiny, I’d say we’d probably have remained the same or get worse despite having better players which isn’t a great defence for the manager.

[The Modfather]

That’s generally how the bench works, its players that would weaken the first 11 :confused: Unless a team is deliberately playing a weakened starting 11 then that will be the case for every team in the world. Real Madrid had a bench with vast majority players that would weaken their starting 11 last night. It doesn’t mean they don’t have depth and quality.

You say that’s a bottom 6 bench, but let’s look at the bench of St J, who are the absolute definition of bottom 6, on Saturday:

Dave Richards
Connor Smith
Fran Franczak
Cameron McPherson
Graham Carey
Ali Crawford
Stevie May
Benjamin Mbunga Kimpioka

You’re not genuinely claiming our bench is as bad as that?

You can look at every bench at every team from 4th downwards. I don’t believe our bench is worse than any of them. Every team in our league outside the Old Firm would be in a relegation battle if they suddenly had to play their whole bench as their starting 11.

I’d not expect a bench, or squad, with similar quality to the strongest 11 at all but the elite clubs. However I’d expect a Hibs bench/squad to have players able to make a meaningful contributions when required and/or players suited to certain situations e.g. Bartley. He didn’t make our strongest 11 but made valuable contributions in games like the derby.

The St Johnstone squad is one trying to stay up, not really just bottom 6 squad. However I don’t intend to compare like for like with other squads as know little about the other squads. I would say that the more we have to play those 7 players the more our quality drops off a cliff from a relatively low starting point.

[The Modfather]

My only thing I'd say is do you think that St Mirren/Killie/Dundee would all jump to have a handful of them at least on their bench? Other than Tavares I think on my initial hunch is that they would all be better options than their benched equivalents at those clubs.

That's not to say it's a good bench by any means but there's players in there that should be capable of doing a job when brought in (Hanlon, Stevenson, Campbell, Levitt, Wollacot)

I don’t disagree that on paper the likes of Hanlon, Stevenson, Campbell, Levitt, Wollacot should be able to do a job. However I think the reality is that they are better on paper than reality and the reality is they have ranged from making no impact at all to being a liability, and all inbetween.

[ChilliEater]

Every team in our league outside the Old Firm would be in a relegation battle if they suddenly had to play their whole bench as their starting 11.

Wait? What? - but you said that the unavailability of players (along with a number of strange refereeing/VAR decisions) was no excuse for our results?

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’d not expect a bench, or squad, with similar quality to the strongest 11 at all but the elite clubs. However I’d expect a Hibs bench/squad to have players able to make a meaningful contributions when required and/or players suited to certain situations e.g. Bartley. He didn’t make our strongest 11 but made valuable contributions in games like the derby.

The St Johnstone squad is one trying to stay up, not really just bottom 6 squad. However I don’t intend to compare like for like with other squads as know little about the other squads. I would say that the more we have to play those 7 players the more our quality drops off a cliff from a relatively low starting point.

Saturdays bench absolutely has players that can make meaningful contributions.

Paul Hanlon is arguably still every bit as good as the two centre half’s starting. IMO he’d likely be a starter at the bottom 6 clubs in this league, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d start for every team outside ‘the big 5’.

Youan has put up brilliant numbers in terms of goals and assists, so he makes meaningful contributions

NMW looks a very decent player from what we’ve seen of him so far and can easily contribute. Infact he improved us the minute he came on at the weekend

Josh Campbell, for all his flaws, regularly chips in with goals when he plays. Again, that’s meaningful contributions. That’s half of the outfield players on the bench.

I can’t help but feel that your argument that we have a bottom 6 bench is based on if they all played in a starting 11. It’s not really a reasonable comparison though to be comparing our bench to other teams starting 11s, however, even then I’d suggest Wollacott, Campbell, Hanlon, Youan and Moriah Welsh would all walk into almost all of the bottom 6 starting 11s, never mind their benches.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Wait? What? - but you said that the unavailability of players (along with a number of strange refereeing/VAR decisions) was no excuse for our results?

Did we have our full first 11 missing? I must have missed those games.

[easty]

Wait? What? - but you said that the unavailability of players (along with a number of strange refereeing/VAR decisions) was no excuse for our results?

Who was unavailable on Saturday when we got turned over by St Johnstone?

[jeffers]

If we have improved since January it’s not been by a considerable margin and tbh so we should given the quality we managed to bring in, quality probably every team in the league bar the OF would have been happy with. I’m fairly confident those players would have improved the other teams too. I don’t see that as any justification for sticking with Monty though.

[ChilliEater]

Did we have our full first 11 missing? I must have missed those games.

6 or 7 of them quite regularly. And one of the ones we did have playing was the goalie, who, is obviously very important, but has the least impact on how you play. Some of the players we did have playing, wouldn't even make our bench as reserves if everyone was available.

[Paulie Walnuts]

6 or 7 of them quite regularly. And one of the ones we did have playing was the goalie, who, is obviously very important, but has the least impact on how you play. Some of the players we did have playing, wouldn't even make our bench as reserves if everyone was available.

Ah ok, so we’re already down from a full starting 11 to 6 or 7.

I can’t say I remember us regularly having 6 or 7 of our best 11 players missing at the same time? What games were these?

[ChilliEater]

Who was unavailable on Saturday when we got turned over by St Johnstone?

You will get no argument from me that Saturday was a poor performance and appalling result - but I was looking for clarity on a more general point than just one game. Does missing your first choice players weaken your team and impact your results?

[ChilliEater]

Ah ok, so we’re already down from a full starting 11 to 6 or 7.

I can’t say I remember us regularly having 6 or 7 of our best 11 players missing at the same time? What games were these?

Well, based on opinions on here, our best team is probably:

Marshall

Cadden
Fish
Rocky
Obita

NMW
Marcondes
Newell

Boyle
ALF
Maolida

Now check out the line-ups from January:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/hibernian/scores-fixtures/2024-01

We only had Marshall, Fish, Obita and Newell play against Motherwell
Marshall, Fish and Newell started, with Obita on the bench against Forfar
Marshall, Fish and Newell. with Maolida playing his first game and Obita at CH against Rangers. Marcondes on the bench.
Marshall, Fish, Obita, Newell and Marcondes against Killie, with Maolida and NMW on the bench.
So 6 or 7 starters, for 4 matches in a row, from outside our preferred 11, including a lad who should have been at home doing his homework at RB :wink:

[The Modfather]

Saturdays bench absolutely has players that can make meaningful contributions.

Paul Hanlon is arguably still every bit as good as the two centre half’s starting. IMO he’d likely be a starter at the bottom 6 clubs in this league, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d start for every team outside ‘the big 5’.

Youan has put up brilliant numbers in terms of goals and assists, so he makes meaningful contributions

NMW looks a very decent player from what we’ve seen of him so far and can easily contribute. Infact he improved us the minute he came on at the weekend

Josh Campbell, for all his flaws, regularly chips in with goals when he plays. Again, that’s meaningful contributions. That’s half of the outfield players on the bench.

I can’t help but feel that your argument that we have a bottom 6 bench is based on if they all played in a starting 11. It’s not really a reasonable comparison though to be comparing our bench to other teams starting 11s, however, even then I’d suggest Wollacott, Campbell, Hanlon, Youan and Moriah Welsh would all walk into almost all of the bottom 6 starting 11s, never mind their benches.

What is the meaningful contribution Hanlon can make? I think there’s an argument about him being no worse than Fish & Rocky, but it’s bald men fighting over a comb. He’s one of 3 centre backs that are amongst the worst for goals conceded in the league. Only 5 goals less than Livingston.

Campbell fluctuates between making a contribution and like playing with 10 men. Often in the same game.

NMW & Youan are good options and/or viable starters. Add in Vente, and being generous Campbell. We’ve a pool of about 13 or 14 players that we can use without then trying to mitigate a big drop in quality. Outside of that from the 30 odd players we are paying a wage to we are in trouble.

We’ve been bottom 6 most of the season, sacked one manager, a second manager trying to survive the same fate, spells where we’ve had to fill the bench with kids and play a 16 year old for months out of necessity. What is the actual positive argument for the overall squad? Certainly pre January.

[Not In The Know]

This is my position too. Context IS important, its not a ‘if my auntie had baws’ discussion; there is no doubt in my mind that performances have improved since the nadir in early Feb, and we’ve been the recipient of some really bad luck in that time that has contributed to where we are. I’d persevere for now.


Agreed we really need to stop sacking managers, the worrying thing is that the main reason for keeping him at the moment.

Things have improved, but after signing MILLIONS worth of talent you would bloody hope so. We aint improved that much tho, and the same basic managerial errors are still being made. Triantis in defence. Not playing NMW on Sat was like playing Marcondes upfront at RC. 16's off the bench to change games...


I hope Monty starts learning...

[One Day Soon]

Agreed we really need to stop sacking managers, the worrying thing is that the main reason for keeping him at the moment.

Things have improved, but after signing MILLIONS worth of talent you would bloody hope so. We aint improved that much tho, and the same basic managerial errors are still being made. Triantis in defence. Not playing NMW on Sat was like playing Marcondes upfront at RC. 16's off the bench to change games...


I hope Monty starts learning...

Waiting for Godot...

[patlowe]

I'm not a 'get X oot' kind of guy but i'm struggling to see any of the apparent signs that NM has what it takes to turn things around or even just get to the level of his (for the most part rightly) much-maligned predecessor. To be honest, almost all the signs have been the opposite - significantly worse stats than previous years, lack of organisation, inexplicable decisions before and in-game, very questionable judgement on how individual games and/or the season have gone, Tavares...

We have had a slight uptick in form, granted, but he's been handed quality in January that other teams (with already much lesser budgets) would dream of. Yet still we're left hoping for a miracle to make top six behind a team with Gogic at centre half. I'll accept it if the club decide they want to stick in this case, given all that's come before, but calls for a change are understandable regardless of top/bottom six status, IMO.

[flash]

Absolutely tremendous 'if my auntie had baws' stuff there. I don't know about pish but there's certainly an inordinate amount of 5hit talked.

You're right though, if we hadn't been beaten 2-1 we might have had a different score. If we hadn't been beaten 2-1 that is.

Completely lost by whatever point it is you are trying to make here.

We lost the game because we can't defend properly and we didn't make the most of our chances.

Clearly if the game had been competently refereed we would have had a penalty at 0-0.

If Leveins tactical masterclass stretches to being in charge of VAR then even I will acknowledge his omnipotence.

[green day]

See all this "we need to stop sacking managers" chat is all very well......but I don't care.
We need managers who can come in and actually work to improve players, without all this "I need 3 windows" pish.

[Springbank]

Well, based on opinions on here, our best team is probably:

Marshall

Cadden
Fish
Rocky
Obita

NMW
Marcondes
Newell

Boyle
ALF
Maolida

Now check out the line-ups from January:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/hibernian/scores-fixtures/2024-01

We only had Marshall, Fish, Obita and Newell play against Motherwell
Marshall, Fish and Newell started, with Obita on the bench against Forfar
Marshall, Fish and Newell. with Maolida playing his first game and Obita at CH against Rangers. Marcondes on the bench.
Marshall, Fish, Obita, Newell and Marcondes against Killie, with Maolida and NMW on the bench.
So 6 or 7 starters, for 4 matches in a row, from outside our preferred 11, including a lad who should have been at home doing his homework at RB :wink:

The damning thing for NM is when he has his better players available, we are better able to judge how he deploys his resources, as a manager.

He rarely plays all of his best players, and on a number of occasions puts your Levitts and Jairs on before a Boyle, Youan or NMW.

And that's why I have no great conviction in giving him access to a one-off transfer war chest - I'd rather trust it to a McInnes if I'm honest

[jeffers]

See all this "we need to stop sacking managers" chat is all very well......but I don't care.
We need managers who can come in and actually work to improve players, without all this "I need 3 windows" pish.

Absolutely this.

I don’t see anyone saying we should have stuck with Maloney, yet it’s hard to argue it’s just as bad under Monty. And he has far better options, certainly up front than Maloney ever had.

For all the improvement we have made we’d have been just as well sticking with Johnson and I feel dirty just saying that.

[Iain G]

See all this "we need to stop sacking managers" chat is all very well......but I don't care.
We need managers who can come in and actually work to improve players, without all this "I need 3 windows" pish.

And what if the players he inherits are pish and can't or won't improve? Then he needs the windows!

Jair, Rocky, Marshall have all improved since NM came in, and a bunch of younger players have had some first team game time.

[Donegal Hibby]

Actually agree with McManus here .
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/nick-montgomerys-hibs-record-bang-28967812

[The Modfather]

I like Montgomery and not actively calling for his head, but I also struggle to make a strong case for keeping him.

I almost feel we’d be as well firing him now. Putting Gray in temporary charge for the rest of the season and hire a new manager now who we won’t announce/appoint until the summer. However have him watching the games now and working with Gray & McDermott in the background to understand what he’s got to work with next season and where to start in the summer while also not starting off on the back foot with the support based on the shambles of this season.

[One Day Soon]

Completely lost by whatever point it is you are trying to make here.

We lost the game because we can't defend properly and we didn't make the most of our chances.

Clearly if the game had been competently refereed we would have had a penalty at 0-0.

If Leveins tactical masterclass stretches to being in charge of VAR then even I will acknowledge his omnipotence.


All the 'Ifs' in the world don't change the fact that we lost, again. This time it was at home and to the second worst team in the league.

Levein can only set his team up to try and make the best of the resources he's got and try to take advantage of the weaknesses of his opponents, regardless of the referee and VAR. He did and it worked for him. Montgomery is in the same position. He did and it didn't work for him.

I'm left concluding that our manager has - across an almost entire season - both failed to coach our defence to be better and failed to replace them with better (despite bringing in Triantis specifically to do so). Given our relative wealth of attacking riches I also feel he isn't getting the best out of those either.

Some people felt we were turning a corner recently and that only VAR and referees were hiding that. I was dubious about that as, despite being on the receiving end of poor decisions, it felt like more of a comfort blanket than hard evidence of significant improvement. The result against St Johnstone deepens my pessimism. This is a team we should be tucking away comfortably if we are improving but we failed to do so. Your observations on our defending and attacking underline that for me.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Well, based on opinions on here, our best team is probably:

Marshall

Cadden
Fish
Rocky
Obita

NMW
Marcondes
Newell

Boyle
ALF
Maolida

Now check out the line-ups from January:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/hibernian/scores-fixtures/2024-01

We only had Marshall, Fish, Obita and Newell play against Motherwell
Marshall, Fish and Newell started, with Obita on the bench against Forfar
Marshall, Fish and Newell. with Maolida playing his first game and Obita at CH against Rangers. Marcondes on the bench.
Marshall, Fish, Obita, Newell and Marcondes against Killie, with Maolida and NMW on the bench.
So 6 or 7 starters, for 4 matches in a row, from outside our preferred 11, including a lad who should have been at home doing his homework at RB :wink:

So 11 starters has now come down to 6 or 7 but upon further inspection it’s actually really 3 or 4. Regularly is only actually 4 out of 33 matches and in those 4 games we’re using guys who weren’t even signed for Hibs for the majority of those games as ‘missing’ to boost the numbers. :greengrin

The Motherwell game saw us playing Marshall, Fish, Obita, Youan, Newell, Levitt, Tavares and Vente. At that point in time, those players all regularly, if not almost always featured in the starting 11. That’s 8 players. All those players were also available for Forfar but Montgomery made the choice to rotate. It wasn’t forced upon him.

The rangers game saw new faces in the door and was a bit more of a stramash but even then, he had Marshall, Fish, Obita, Youan, Levitt, Newell, Tavares, Vente, Maolida, Marcondes and Amos available to him. Out of that it’s fair to say 6 at an absolute minimum would be in a strongest 11.

Killie game at the end of that run saw was the first game where all of your starting 11 were actually signed for the club and 7 of your 11 were available, again, just because he chooses to put some of them on the bench that doesn’t mean he’s had to do without them, he’s made that choice to put them on the bench.

[One Day Soon]

Actually agree with McManus here .
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/nick-montgomerys-hibs-record-bang-28967812


The funniest thing about that article is its description of us "falling to a shock 2-1 home defeat to relegation-threatened St Johnstone".

No-one was shocked, no-one. Disappointed yes, but shocked? It was entirely unsurprising. That perhaps is the loudest klaxon sounding at Easter Road just now, the almost indifferent apathy to our predicament. Even the booing after the final whistle was half-hearted.

[Brightside]

Absolutely this.

I don’t see anyone saying we should have stuck with Maloney, yet it’s hard to argue it’s just as bad under Monty. And he has far better options, certainly up front than Maloney ever had.

For all the improvement we have made we’d have been just as well sticking with Johnson and I feel dirty just saying that.

We should have stuck with Maloney. :greengrin

[jeffers]

We should have stuck with Maloney. :greengrin

🤣

[One Day Soon]

We should have stuck with Maloney. :greengrin

That would have been top trolling if you hadn't used the emoji :wink:

[JimBHibees]

Absolutely this.

I don’t see anyone saying we should have stuck with Maloney, yet it’s hard to argue it’s just as bad under Monty. And he has far better options, certainly up front than Maloney ever had.

For all the improvement we have made we’d have been just as well sticking with Johnson and I feel dirty just saying that.

Genuinely thought we should have given Maloney longer got sacked after probably our best performance under him in semi final. Same for Ross nonsense to pull trigger when we did. Kind of the same at present moment with Monty though appreciate the significant concerns when performances like Saturday happen as well as first half in Dingwall. My significant caveat is the number of horrible decisions we have had which if given even half would have had us comfortably top 6. Would like him given opportunity to substantially change squad and bring in new players plus having a full preseason.

[Paulie Walnuts]

What is the meaningful contribution Hanlon can make? I think there’s an argument about him being no worse than Fish & Rocky, but it’s bald men fighting over a comb. He’s one of 3 centre backs that are amongst the worst for goals conceded in the league. Only 5 goals less than Livingston.

Campbell fluctuates between making a contribution and like playing with 10 men. Often in the same game.

NMW & Youan are good options and/or viable starters. Add in Vente, and being generous Campbell. We’ve a pool of about 13 or 14 players that we can use without then trying to mitigate a big drop in quality. Outside of that from the 30 odd players we are paying a wage to we are in trouble.

We’ve been bottom 6 most of the season, sacked one manager, a second manager trying to survive the same fate, spells where we’ve had to fill the bench with kids and play a 16 year old for months out of necessity. What is the actual positive argument for the overall squad? Certainly pre January.

As I said, I fully expect Hanlon would get a game for anyone outside ‘the big 5’. So I think it’s fair to say he can make meaningful contributions. By all accounts McInnes who’s team are in 4th is a big admirer of him.

How many teams in our league have more than 14 players before there’s a drop in quality in their starting 11? Hearts, maybe at a push? After that I’d suggest everyone suffers the same fate at that point. If a manager can only perform if he has 11 starting 11 standard players available at all times then he’s not a good enough manager.

[Mon Dieu4]

Genuinely thought we should have given Maloney longer got sacked after probably our best performance under him in semi final. Same for Ross nonsense to pull trigger when we did. Kind of the same at present moment with Monty though appreciate the significant concerns when performances like Saturday happen as well as first half in Dingwall. My significant caveat is the number of horrible decisions we have had which if given even half would have had us comfortably top 6. Would like him given opportunity to substantially change squad and bring in new players plus having a full preseason.

Whilst I have sympathy with him decision wise it doesn't change the fact that we more than often play slow and turgid football and some of his decision making is baffling, can't see how new players will change much of that

I'd say the best we have played all season was the second half against Celtic at Easter Road, I was hoping that would be the blue print of how we would play from that point, it's not been remotely close since

[Heisenberg]

The funniest thing about that article is its description of us "falling to a shock 2-1 home defeat to relegation-threatened St Johnstone".

No-one was shocked, no-one. Disappointed yes, but shocked? It was entirely unsurprising. That perhaps is the loudest klaxon sounding at Easter Road just now, the almost indifferent apathy to our predicament. Even the booing after the final whistle was half-hearted.

I was shocked. I hadn’t even considered them beating us before kick off given the run they were on and our improved form over the past few games. Been a Hibs fan long enough should’ve known better.

[jeffers]

Genuinely thought we should have given Maloney longer got sacked after probably our best performance under him in semi final. Same for Ross nonsense to pull trigger when we did. Kind of the same at present moment with Monty though appreciate the significant concerns when performances like Saturday happen as well as first half in Dingwall. My significant caveat is the number of horrible decisions we have had which if given even half would have had us comfortably top 6. Would like him given opportunity to substantially change squad and bring in new players plus having a full preseason.

Maloney was certainly up against it with the options available to him but that semi performance was encouraging. It was the wrong time to appoint him though, if it was ever going to work he should have been a summer appointment.

I wanted Ross gone after the final defeat, but of the past 4 managers he’s the only one who had enough credit in the bank to justify sticking with him a bit longer.

[Donegal Hibby]

Genuinely thought we should have given Maloney longer got sacked after probably our best performance under him in semi final. Same for Ross nonsense to pull trigger when we did. Kind of the same at present moment with Monty though appreciate the significant concerns when performances like Saturday happen as well as first half in Dingwall. My significant caveat is the number of horrible decisions we have had which if given even half would have had us comfortably top 6. Would like him given opportunity to substantially change squad and bring in new players plus having a full preseason.

I often wondered what was gained by us when we sacked Ross before the cup final when Gray had said he phoned Ross afterwards for advice leading up to it .

[One Day Soon]

I was shocked. I hadn’t even considered them beating us before kick off given the run they were on and our improved form over the past few games. Been a Hibs fan long enough should’ve known better.

Seriously? The first thing I said to my son when we were leaving the house was that if any team in the league is desperate for a win then we must be one of the first picks to play against. Add on top of that Craig Levein's role and the fact that it was insane wind to disrupt actual football and I don't know why I didn't place a bet beforehand.

[JimBHibees]

Whilst I have sympathy with him decision wise it doesn't change the fact that we more than often play slow and turgid football and some of his decision making is baffling, can't see how new players will change much of that

I'd say the best we have played all season was the second half against Celtic at Easter Road, I was hoping that would be the blue print of how we would play from that point, it's not been remotely close since

Agree thought we were brilliant that second half also thought we were very good against Hearts in last derby. Think we struggle a bit when teams sit in and are very safe at times though actually quite like we can be patient the lack of intensity as per first half Saturday was no doubt poor. Subs are also a factor silly to take off Alf a few seconds after he almost scored the goal of the season. He should always be playing in these games as you want an experienced penalty box striker. Don’t get the Jair obsession either. All that considered think the club should support rather than bin imo.

[The Modfather]

As I said, I fully expect Hanlon would get a game for anyone outside ‘the big 5’. So I think it’s fair to say he can make meaningful contributions. By all accounts McInnes who’s team are in 4th is a big admirer of him.

How many teams in our league have more than 14 players before there’s a drop in quality in their starting 11? Hearts, maybe at a push? After that I’d suggest everyone suffers the same fate at that point. If a manager can only perform if he has 11 starting 11 standard players available at all times then he’s not a good enough manager.

He might get a game for anyone outside the top 5. However, how does that change the fact that we’ve got 3 centre backs who have conceded 50 goals, 5 less than Livi, and can’t defend any basic cross into the box no matter who plays together?

How many in our league spend the money we do outside Hearts & Aberdeen? We spent around a rumoured £2m in fees alone in the summer. Never mind the fees we paid last season. All to have about 14 players we can use before the quality drops off a cliff.

[One Day Soon]

Maloney was certainly up against it with the options available to him but that semi performance was encouraging. It was the wrong time to appoint him though, if it was ever going to work he should have been a summer appointment.

I wanted Ross gone after the final defeat, but of the past 4 managers he’s the only one who had enough credit in the bank to justify sticking with him a bit longer.

Appointing a new manager at, very near to or just after the start of a new season is the worst possible timing.

For all that any of my remaining faith in NM is now hanging by a gossamer thin thread, if he isn't sacked by the beginning of May then we should probably leave him in post until the end of next season. A new manager would need to be brought in early and well before the Summer window opens on June 14th. And if there is any doubt at all in the minds of BK and IG about his future they - or preferably someone else with football smarts - should already be well down the path of sizing up his replacement.

[green day]

And what if the players he inherits are pish and can't or won't improve? Then he needs the windows!

Jair, Rocky, Marshall have all improved since NM came in, and a bunch of younger players have had some first team game time.

I have some sympathy with this view, but only because it keeps getting peddled in the media and - to a certain extent - among some Hibs fans.

But there are managers at other (smaller) clubs who are - to coin a phrase - managing to pish very well with the cock they have.

If a coach is so poor that he cant improve his players, then whats the point of him being here?

This three windows stuff seems like a luxury that only our managers need................

[JimBHibees]

I often wondered what was gained by us when we sacked Ross before the cup final when Gray had said he phoned Ross afterwards for advice leading up to it .

We sacked him because a number of 15 year olds shouted for him to be sacked at Livingston 😂

[Paulie Walnuts]

He might get a game for anyone outside the top 5. However, how does that change the fact that we’ve got 3 centre backs who have conceded 50 goals, 5 less than Livi, and can’t defend any basic cross into the box no matter who plays together?

How many in our league spend the money we do outside Hearts & Aberdeen? We spent around a rumoured £2m in fees alone in the summer. Never mind the fees we paid last season. All to have about 14 players we can use before the quality drops off a cliff.

Nothing will change that fact. The fact he’s likely good enough to start for the majority of our league, yet doesn’t start for us though, you’ll not be surprised to hear, has me questioning our manager. If he’s got players of a decent standard that would imo start for the majority of our league to choose from, yet we see no improvement in our defending, that to me suggests we’re set up all wrong and his coaching defensively is miles off it. If you dropped any 2 of our 3 centre back options into Kilmarnocks team for example, there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that they wouldn’t have conceded 50 goals this season.

Nobody outside of Hearts and Aberdeen spend the money we do. In my opinion our squad reflects that. We’ve got stronger players in our starting 11, some of them such as Maolida, of a standard other sides, including Hearts and Aberdeen could only dream of. We’ve got a much stronger bench than the other 7 sides as well. If you think that the money we spend should be enough that we have a full bench of players that’s better than the starting 11s of others in our league or that it should be able to support 17 or 18 players who are all of starting 11 quality then I’d suggest you’re always going to be disappointed. Even Celtic and Rangers see a drop off in standard in their squad after 14 or so players

[SickBoy32]

He might get a game for anyone outside the top 5. However, how does that change the fact that we’ve got 3 centre backs who have conceded 50 goals, 5 less than Livi, and can’t defend any basic cross into the box no matter who plays together?

How many in our league spend the money we do outside Hearts & Aberdeen? We spent around a rumoured £2m in fees alone in the summer. Never mind the fees we paid last season. All to have about 14 players we can use before the quality drops off a cliff.

We’ve paid fees for a lot of ***** players under the leadership of Gordon’s / Kensell to be fair, so not sure that’s an overly accurate measure of how good our squad truly is.

Multiple hundreds of £k (each) spent on the guff below:

Wollacot
Bushiri
Mckirdy
Harbottle
Levitt

I think it’s a poor squad overall, few dangerous players but very imbalanced.

On the manager - he’s certainly not helped himself at times this season with some bizarre decisions, but I can’t help feel like most managers would be doomed working within the parameters currently in place at ER.

[jeffers]

Appointing a new manager at, very near to or just after the start of a new season is the worst possible timing.

For all that any of my remaining faith in NM is now hanging by a gossamer thin thread, if he isn't sacked by the beginning of May then we should probably leave him in post until the end of next season. A new manager would need to be brought in early and well before the Summer window opens on June 14th. And if there is any doubt at all in the minds of BK and IG about his future they - or preferably someone else with football smarts - should already be well down the path of sizing up his replacement.

I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing regarding when Maloney should have been appointed 😄

I’m repeating myself I know but he’s shown nothing to suggest he’s the answer so I I’d sack Monty now and give his replacement a proper chance to get his ideas across pre season with the blank(ish) canvas to bring in the type of players he wants.

[Since452]

I was shocked. I hadn’t even considered them beating us before kick off given the run they were on and our improved form over the past few games. Been a Hibs fan long enough should’ve known better.

I fancied us to turn them over pretty comfortably. Thought the "tricky one" would be the Motherwell game. Saturday was so disappointing on so many different levels. Not quite as soul destroying as the St Mirren defeat but close.

[The Modfather]

Nothing will change that fact. The fact he’s likely good enough to start for the majority of our league, yet doesn’t start for us though, you’ll not be surprised to hear, has me questioning our manager. If he’s got players of a decent standard that would imo start for the majority of our league to choose from, yet we see no improvement in our defending, that to me suggests we’re set up all wrong and his coaching defensively is miles off it. If you dropped any 2 of our 3 centre back options into Kilmarnocks team for example, there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that they wouldn’t have conceded 50 goals this season.

Nobody outside of Hearts and Aberdeen spend the money we do. In my opinion our squad reflects that. We’ve got stronger players in our starting 11, some of them such as Maolida, of a standard other sides, including Hearts and Aberdeen could only dream of. We’ve got a much stronger bench than the other 7 sides as well. If you think that the money we spend should be enough that we have a full bench of players that’s better than the starting 11s of others in our league then I’d suggest you’re always going to be disappointed and not having a bench of that standard is absolutely no excuse for a Hibs manager to be sitting in 7th place at this stage of the season.

It’s all hypothetical but I don’t see any 2 of our centre backs vastly improving many defences in the league. I don’t know enough about the other defences to talk definitively. However I don’t think Kilmarnock would have conceded only 34 goals as they have now with two of our centre backs. They would likely get more protection at other clubs but fundamentally most teams would, or certainly should, target them and put as many crosses in as they can as that’s where Hanlon/Fish/Rocky badly struggle.

We’ve spent record amounts for a paper thin competitive first 11, though even that contains a defence among the worst in the league. We could have saved the fees on Levitt, Wollacot, Harbottle, Vente, McKirdy etc to make our money go much further with quality loans like Maolida, or free transfers.

We spent millions in the summer to end up with a midfield from Newell, Jeggo, Levitt, Campbell & JDH. Or a defence from Fish, Hanlon, Rocky & Harbottle.

[RIP]

It’s all hypothetical but I don’t see any 2 of our centre backs vastly improving many defences in the league. I don’t know enough about the other defences to talk definitively. However I don’t think Kilmarnock would have conceded only 34 goals as they have now with two of our centre backs. They would likely get more protection at other clubs but fundamentally most teams would, or certainly should, target them and put as many crosses in as they can as that’s where Hanlon/Fish/Rocky badly struggle.

We’ve spent record amounts for a paper thin competitive first 11, though even that contains a defence among the worst in the league. We could have saved the fees on Levitt, Wollacot, Harbottle, Vente, McKirdy etc to make our money go much further with quality loans like Maolida, or free transfers.

We spent millions in the summer to end up with a midfield from Newell, Jeggo, Levitt, Campbell & JDH. Or a defence from Fish, Hanlon, Rocky & Harbottle.

Our midfield is or should be Joe (POTY, PPOTY), Nathan, Nectar and Emiliano with Youan and Boyle wide midfield. Should be strong enough to beat St Johnstone

[WhileTheChief..]

LJ wanted 4 or 5 transfer windows and NM wants 3 years to build a team.

They're living in fantasy land.

We want and need improvement now. Not improvement from the crap we fell to this season, improvement on where Jack Ross had us.

[Brightside]

As I said, I fully expect Hanlon would get a game for anyone outside ‘the big 5’. So I think it’s fair to say he can make meaningful contributions. By all accounts McInnes who’s team are in 4th is a big admirer of him.

How many teams in our league have more than 14 players before there’s a drop in quality in their starting 11? Hearts, maybe at a push? After that I’d suggest everyone suffers the same fate at that point. If a manager can only perform if he has 11 starting 11 standard players available at all times then he’s not a good enough manager.

Hanlon had offers to go to Killie and Dundee in the Jan window. Hibs stopped it. But he is clearly not being considered anymore.

[heretoday]

Bring back Heck !!

[jeffers]

Hanlon had offers to go to Killie and Dundee in the Jan window. Hibs stopped it. But he is clearly not being considered anymore.
:agree:

[J-C]

Hanlon had offers to go to Killie and Dundee in the Jan window. Hibs stopped it. But he is clearly not being considered anymore.

Which to me is a terrible piece of man management, also add to the fact that Montgomery actually thinks Triantis is a better option than our club captain at CH, these things have raised big question marks for me.

[Winston Ingram]

LJ wanted 4 or 5 transfer windows and NM wants 3 years to build a team.

They're living in fantasy land.

We want and need improvement now. Not improvement from the crap we fell to this season, an improvement on where Jack Ross had us.

They are. If they want this time, they need to demonstrate some capability. LJ started badly and planted a lot of doubt, then turned it around second half of the season, we played some excellent stuff and were an injury time goal line clearance from overtaking the Jambos. As a result, got a second season. He then turned into Mr Bean and was rightly emptied.

Monty on the other hand has demonstrated absolutely nothing and made us worse. Despite being backed massively in the window and given some excellent players, our defence is worse than ever and we require snookers to get in the top 6.

I can't see the ST uptake being particularly good for next season if he remains in charge. Loads are already not bothering to show. I can't see him getting a huge budget either in the summer as his failure to get into the top 6 and Europe will hack into that massively.

If we have a bad start to next season badly, he'll need to be punted and we burst next season in August. Makes no sense to keep him at all.

[Winston Ingram]

Bring back Heck !!

I'd take him back. He's learned the importance of a defensive midfielder since he's been away.

[JimBHibees]

Which to me is a terrible piece of man management, also add to the fact that Montgomery actually thinks Triantis is a better option than our club captain at CH, these things have raised big question marks for me.

Difficult one maybe Paul understandably not happy and their relationship has gone south. Does seem strange though not sure Paul was having a great season himself would appear to be less risk than Triantis for example.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hanlon had offers to go to Killie and Dundee in the Jan window. Hibs stopped it. But he is clearly not being considered anymore.

Doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. At our level he’s still a more than decent centre half and the idea he’s got nothing to offer is miles off it imo.

[ancient hibee]

Which to me is a terrible piece of man management, also add to the fact that Montgomery actually thinks Triantis is a better option than our club captain at CH, these things have raised big question marks for me.
Me too. When Fish was needing replaced to me the obvious choice was to move Rocky right and bring on Hanlon .At the same time the midfield had to be geed up and bringing on NMW was the right choice-he could have taken any of them off but probably Triantis would have been the one.

[Exuberance1875]

Manager needs to go and some of the Foley money needs spent on clearing out some of the players on contracts if we are unable to shift them quickly in the summer.

Style of play is rotten, teams soft mentally, we’ve missed leadership on and off the park this season if you ask me and he’s now just playing his pals from CCM at every opportunity. Miller & Triantis aren’t better than others we currently have.

Granted Miller been injured recently although if he was fit I’d assume he’d play

[hibeerealist]

We sacked him because a number of 15 year olds shouted for him to be sacked at Livingston 😂


Absolute nonsense, JR was finished with the bulk of our support, no need to go back into the details and he is well gone. Our managerial appointments since then have mostly mirrored Jack, sadly.

[Heisenberg]

Absolute nonsense, JR was finished with the bulk of our support, no need to go back into the details and he is well gone. Our managerial appointments since then have mostly mirrored Jack, sadly.

Mirrored him? I wish.

[Hibees1973]

Absolute nonsense, JR was finished with the bulk of our support, no need to go back into the details and he is well gone. Our managerial appointments since then have mostly mirrored Jack, sadly.

Think that is a bit unfair.

Ross got us to multiple semi-final/finals at Hampden and achieved 3rd position in the league for us. Must have been at least a decade where a manager got us to third in the league.

He was not backed properly in the transfer window after finishing third, to the point he had to play a past it MacGregor in a key European tie away in Rijeka. MacGregor got sent off and we were pumped. Ross was sacked after a poor run of results at a time when the SPFL threw a whole raft of fixtures at Hibs after covid wiped out the squad. In hindsight it's apparent to me that Kensell and The Gordons wanted their own guy in. Ron admitted a short time after Ross left, that he was sacked too early.

Jack had his flaws, no doubt. But to mirror him with Maloney, Johnson and Montgomery (so far) is I feel, wrong and unfair.

People will point to how Ross did at Dundee Utd, but I think his record at Hibs stands up to our last three appointments.

[Stonewall]

Absolute nonsense, JR was finished with the bulk of our support, no need to go back into the details and he is well gone. Our managerial appointments since then have mostly mirrored Jack, sadly.

At least JR's successors sorted out the problem of continually losing semi finals and finals. A lot of people had it in for Ross and were never going to give him a fair chance.

[JimBHibees]

Absolute nonsense, JR was finished with the bulk of our support, no need to go back into the details and he is well gone. Our managerial appointments since then have mostly mirrored Jack, sadly.

Don’t think it is nonsense. We were on a poor league run however he has just managed one of our best cup wins ever beating Rangers 3 1 at Hampden. He deserved more time than he was given which even Ron acknowledged later.

[Winston Ingram]

Absolute nonsense, JR was finished with the bulk of our support, no need to go back into the details and he is well gone. Our managerial appointments since then have mostly mirrored Jack, sadly.

I’d agree that he was finished with the majority of our support and it was certainly not just 15 yr olds that were chanting for him to go at Livi that night. He’d won 1 league game in 11, losing 7 including losing 5 on the spin. In that run we weren’t unlucky. We had zero intensity, and we’re repeatedly easily rolled over. It was as justifiable a sacking as you’re ever likely to see.

I’d disagree however that they’d mirrored Jack, maybe in the final games of his reign but certainly not before him.

That final spell has been largely forgotten a few on here as the managers we’ve replaced him with have been utterly useless and nowhere near JR’s level.

[LaMotta]

Absolute nonsense, JR was finished with the bulk of our support, no need to go back into the details and he is well gone. Our managerial appointments since then have mostly mirrored Jack, sadly.

That's not true at all. Whilst dissent was growing, most people were still behind him, there was a poll at the time that I think backs that up. It was a ridiculous sacking at a ridiculous time IMO

[LaMotta]

Don’t think it is nonsense. We were on a poor league run however he has just managed one of our best cup wins ever beating Rangers 3 1 at Hampden. He deserved more time than he was given which even Ron acknowledged later.

:agree:

[Keepthefaith]

Interesting article on Aberdeen close to appointing the elfsborg manager

Aberdeen close in on Elfsborg head coach Thelin - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68783946

Took them on when in second tier, finished 12th in a 16 team league in his first season in top flight. Winder how many of our fans would have called for him to go in similar circumstances here? Since then he's had 2 second place finishes

Maybe there's something in this approach of giving managers time??

Can't believe folk are now saying Ross played the best football of recent years! The football was dull and he was continuously bailed out by Boyle, as we saw in the semi. We haven't really played good football consistently since mowbray IMO so let's not kid ourselves it's a nail on someone else can magically make it happen overnight.

Hearts have ground out results but their fans were very unhappy with Naismith for most of this season prior to the crazy run they had. I don't want us to just grind out results even if the end result is Europe, I want to enjoy what I watch and do think that giving Monty more time can deliver it.

[JohnM1875]

Interesting article on Aberdeen close to appointing the elfsborg manager

Aberdeen close in on Elfsborg head coach Thelin - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68783946

Took them on when in second tier, finished 12th in a 16 team league in his first season in top flight. Winder how many of our fans would have called for him to go in similar circumstances here? Since then he's had 2 second place finishes

Maybe there's something in this approach of giving managers time??

Can't believe folk are now saying Ross played the best football of recent years! The football was dull and he was continuously bailed out by Boyle, as we saw in the semi. We haven't really played good football consistently since mowbray IMO so let's not kid ourselves it's a nail on someone else can magically make it happen overnight.

Hearts have ground out results but their fans were very unhappy with Naismith for most of this season prior to the crazy run they had. I don't want us to just grind out results even if the end result is Europe, I want to enjoy what I watch and do think that giving Monty more time can deliver it.

It's the kind of appointment I'd be really excited about. Just cause he’s foreign and something a bit different though. Absolutely no idea how good Elfsborg are or what style of play they go for.

[RIP]

With Ross the board were listening too much to the vocal minority rather than taking the pulse of the entire support. Most of the season ticket holders I know don't post on the socials.

That's another problem with the loss of Dempster and the demise of Working Together. The Board feel as remote now as in the days of Petrie as CEO.

[Keepthefaith]

It's the kind of appointment I'd be really excited about. Just cause he’s foreign and something a bit different though. Absolutely no idea how good Elfsborg are or what style of play they go for.

I guess my point is that this is the kind of appointment we got in Monty! Successful coach, immediate impact at CCM, reputation for attacking football. Swedish league might also be viewed less than favorably by our fans too...it's ironic then that you say this would excite you, kinda proves my point!

[jeffers]

With Ross the board were listening too much to the vocal minority rather than taking the pulse of the entire support. Most of the season ticket holders I know don't post on the socials.

That's another problem with the loss of Dempster and the demise of Working Together. The Board feel as remote now as in the days of Petrie as CEO.

My recollection was it was Ron who sacked Ross and didn’t even consult the board, who made their feelings clear to him afterwards.

[Winston Ingram]

I guess my point is that this is the kind of appointment we got in Monty! Successful coach, immediate impact at CCM, reputation for attacking football. Swedish league might also be viewed less than favorably by our fans too...it's ironic then that you say this would excite you, kinda proves my point!

Tbf, the standard of the Swedish league is probably higher than ours. The A League is on a par with League 1 here.

[LaMotta]

Interesting article on Aberdeen close to appointing the elfsborg manager

Aberdeen close in on Elfsborg head coach Thelin - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68783946

Took them on when in second tier, finished 12th in a 16 team league in his first season in top flight. Winder how many of our fans would have called for him to go in similar circumstances here? Since then he's had 2 second place finishes

Maybe there's something in this approach of giving managers time??

Can't believe folk are now saying Ross played the best football of recent years! The football was dull and he was continuously bailed out by Boyle, as we saw in the semi. We haven't really played good football consistently since mowbray IMO so let's not kid ourselves it's a nail on someone else can magically make it happen overnight.

Hearts have ground out results but their fans were very unhappy with Naismith for most of this season prior to the crazy run they had. I don't want us to just grind out results even if the end result is Europe, I want to enjoy what I watch and do think that giving Monty more time can deliver it.

What's your definition of recent years? He absolutely did play the best football over the last 5 years. Any longer than 5 years isn't particularly recent IMO!

[bingo70]

With Ross the board were listening too much to the vocal minority rather than taking the pulse of the entire support. Most of the season ticket holders I know don't post on the socials.

That's another problem with the loss of Dempster and the demise of Working Together. The Board feel as remote now as in the days of Petrie as CEO.

The pulse of the entire support had stopped going to the games, even before the bad run and that’s why the club acted.

Before you go and check attendances, I’m talking actual bums on seats, not the publicised attendances.

The whole premise of Ron’s plan was dependant on people being in the ground to increase sponsorship, hospitality etc. I know Ron Latterly thought he got the Ross sacking wrong but I don’t think he did, he was absolutely correct, we’ve just got his replacements consistently wrong since.

All imo of course

[Winston Ingram]

The pulse of the entire support had stopped going to the games, even before the bad run and that’s why the club acted.

Before you go and check attendances, I’m talking actual bums on seats, not the publicised attendances.

The whole premise of Ron’s plan was dependant on people being in the ground to increase sponsorship, hospitality etc. I know Ron Latterly thought he got the Ross sacking wrong but I don’t think he did, he was absolutely correct, we’ve just got his replacements consistently wrong since.

All imo of course

This.

[JohnM1875]

I guess my point is that this is the kind of appointment we got in Monty! Successful coach, immediate impact at CCM, reputation for attacking football. Swedish league might also be viewed less than favorably by our fans too...it's ironic then that you say this would excite you, kinda proves my point!

Oh I was all excited about the Montgomery appointment as well! Don't worry about that 😂

I'm staying right out of it when we're looking for our next manager.

[JohnM1875]

This.

Completely agree as well

[LaMotta]

The pulse of the entire support had stopped going to the games, even before the bad run and that’s why the club acted.

Before you go and check attendances, I’m talking actual bums on seats, not the publicised attendances.

The whole premise of Ron’s plan was dependant on people being in the ground to increase sponsorship, hospitality etc. I know Ron Latterly thought he got the Ross sacking wrong but I don’t think he did, he was absolutely correct, we’ve just got his replacements consistently wrong since.

All imo of course

Really? We had a whole season and a bit where fans weren't even allowed in the ground. For the start of that 21/22 season we were only allowed limited attendances up until end of August. So he only had a couple of months of home games for that situation to supposedly become evident.

[Keepthefaith]

He didn’t take them over in the second tier?

His average league placing over his time at Elfsborg is 6th place. For Elfsborg that’s worse than average. His time at Elfsborg would be akin to us sticking by a manager who had us averaging out 6th or 7th place finishes over a 5 year period.

You're right, I misread it however the fact is in his first season with elfsborg they finished 12th out of 16 and has since had 2 excellent seasons. In some ways it makes my point even stronger that he joined a new club and needed a season of underachievement before being successful

[Paulie Walnuts]

You're right, I misread it however the fact is in his first season with elfsborg they finished 12th out of 16 and has since had 2 excellent seasons. In some ways it makes my point even stronger that he joined a new club and needed a season of underachievement before being successful

Was he particularly successful? It looks like he had a crap season to begin with and then delivered some good and some poor to average after that. Before he came in, their average league placing in the decade prior was 4th. His average was 6th. It hardly screams a manager that’s been a massive success to me.

[JimBHibees]

This.

Not this though he did play 442 quite a lot. 😁

[Keepthefaith]

Was he particularly successful? It looks like he had a crap season to begin with and then delivered some good and some poor to average after that. Before he came in, their average league placing in the decade prior was 4th. His average was 6th. It hardly screams a manager that’s been a massive success to me.

I'm beginning to wonder if you just enjoy contradicting me, seems like it!

He was second last season, only losing the title on goal difference. That'll do me for success, backed up with a good style of football. Tbf I've just taken my info from the bbc article so if I've missed something else significant about his career/ performance then fairdos

[JimBHibees]

My recollection was it was Ron who sacked Ross and didn’t even consult the board, who made their feelings clear to him afterwards.

Was he not sacked in the car park at Livi. Ludicrous treatment

[Winston Ingram]

Not this though he did play 442 quite a lot. 😁

He did. He played pretty much every formation possible. It was different every week!

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'm beginning to wonder if you just enjoy contradicting me, seems like it!

He was second last season, only losing the title on goal difference. That'll do me for success, backed up with a good style of football. Tbf I've just taken my info from the bbc article so if I've missed something else significant about his career/ performance then fairdos

Not at all. I just had a look at his record earlier before I read your post because I was intrigued what Aberdeen were getting. The first thing that jumped out was that it looked pretty much par for the course for Elfsborg at best.

[J-C]

My recollection was it was Ron who sacked Ross and didn’t even consult the board, who made their feelings clear to him afterwards.

I'd heard he'd fallen out with Ron, hence why he was let go, Ron as much as admitted he'd made a mistake a good while after, sometimes heat of the moment decisions come back to bite you.

[Mango Man]

In hindsight, Ross definitely should have stayed for the final against Celtic, I think he earned that much. It was a horrific run though for sure.

A lot of folk just never forgave him for that St Johnstone final.

[Keepthefaith]

Was he not sacked in the car park at Livi. Ludicrous treatment

can we please not make slanderous comments where we don't know the facts about someone who has since died and who ultimately was a man of huge passion and integrity and who had the best interests of hibs at heart? really poor to be coming up with this to make cheap points in the defence of Ross. surely we can do better than this.

[Iain G]

Tbf, the standard of the Swedish league is probably higher than ours. The A League is on a par with League 1 here.

He sounds like the Swedish monty, though at least Montgomery has won something 😁

[JimBHibees]

can we please not make slanderous comments where we don't know the facts about someone who has since died and who ultimately was a man of huge passion and integrity and who had the best interests of hibs at heart? really poor to be coming up with this to make cheap points in the defence of Ross. surely we can die better than this.

Wow that is a jump however it happened it was rudely quick whether by Ron or someone else. Pretty sure it was Ross that said that is what happened. Would never question Rons love for the club but these are two completely separate points imo.

[Since452]

Ron admitted he made a mistake sacking Ross. Which showed the integrity of the man to be honest.

[WhileTheChief..]

can we please not make slanderous comments where we don't know the facts about someone who has since died and who ultimately was a man of huge passion and integrity and who had the best interests of hibs at heart? really poor to be coming up with this to make cheap points in the defence of Ross. surely we can die better than this.

This post is bang out of order. It's you trying to score cheap points here.

It was widely known what happened at Livvi. Facts.

[Brightside]

That's not true at all. Whilst dissent was growing, most people were still behind him, there was a poll at the time that I think backs that up. It was a ridiculous sacking at a ridiculous time IMO

Correct - Unfortunately our board bottled it and followed the noisy minority. Hopefully they have learned.

[we are hibs]

Are folk still going on about Jack Ross? Deary me. It's been 3 years. Move on.

[Shrekko]

Are folk still going on about Jack Ross? Deary me. It's been 3 years. Move on.

.. and what a 3 years it's been!

[Winston Ingram]

Correct - Unfortunately our board bottled it and followed the noisy minority. Hopefully they have learned.

They certainly followed the results. What evidence is there that it was a minority? Certainly didn't seem like a minority on here when he was punted?

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd heard he'd fallen out with Ron, hence why he was let go, Ron as much as admitted he'd made a mistake a good while after, sometimes heat of the moment decisions come back to bite you.

Yip, Ron said he wanted us to be the best of the rest, then from a position of strength, proceeded to give Ross the funds to bring in the dross he did, not funds that would have had us push on from that 3rd place finish.

Panic sacking after poor management from above.

[flash]

The thing with Jack Ross for me was how awful the football turned out to be when we were finally allowed back into the stadium to watch it.

[Hibernian Verse]

They certainly followed the results. What evidence is there that it was a minority? Certainly didn't seem like a minority on here when he was punted?

That's why he said it was a noisy minority, it seems like a majority due to the relentlessness.

[Brightside]

They certainly followed the results. What evidence is there that it was a minority? Certainly didn't seem like a minority on here when he was punted?

on here is the minority. Its the minority that go out of their way to talk about Hibs on forums and twitter. The majority just want to go and watch the football.

[Hibernian Verse]

on here is the minority. Its the minority that go out of their way to talk about Hibs on forums and twitter. The majority just want to go and watch the football.

The irony being that some of the minority don't go to the football.

[Since452]

The thing with Jack Ross for me was how awful the football turned out to be when we were finally allowed back into the stadium to watch it.


Ross was pretty unfortunate that when we finished 3rd and got to the cup final it was behind closed doors. The majority of the football that season was pretty good but none of us got to cheer them on in person. If fans had been in the ground then he probably would have had more goodwill when the inevitable bad run happened. I think a lot of people associate going to watch Hibs under Ross with us struggling with pretty poor players on a bad run with huge fixture congestions because of Covid etc. It's a shame.

[B.H.F.C]

Ross was pretty unfortunate that when we finished 3rd and got to the cup final it was behind closed doors. The majority of the football that season was pretty good but none of us got to cheer them on in person. If fans had been in the ground then he probably would have had more goodwill when the inevitable bad run happened. I think a lot of people associate going to watch Hibs under Ross with us struggling with pretty poor players on a bad run with huge fixture congestions because of Covid etc. It's a shame.

The time we spent in the ground watching Ross, didn’t match the time when we weren’t in the ground. His league record with supporters in the ground was played 34, won 12, drew 8, lost 14. Actually getting to go and watch Hibs under Ross was not good for the most part. His good work was all done in an empty stadium.

I don’t think anyone who was at the last couple of games before covid will have good memories of them. Or the last week of his time here when we had shockers away to Ross County and Livingston and it was clear he was done.

[Since452]

The time we spent in the ground watching Ross, didn’t match the time when we weren’t in the ground. His league record with supporters in the ground was played 34, won 12, drew 8, lost 14. Actually getting to go and watch Hibs under Ross was not good for the most part. His good work was all done in an empty stadium.

Exactly that

[Donegal Hibby]

Would the way Hibs played under Ross also a factor in fans turning on him too ? .

[McGruber]

The time we spent in the ground watching Ross, didn’t match the time when we weren’t in the ground. His league record with supporters in the ground was played 34, won 12, drew 8, lost 14. Actually getting to go and watch Hibs under Ross was not good for the most part. His good work was all done in an empty stadium.
.

Fair point. But that to me says more about the mentality of the players than the manager.

[McGruber]

Not touting Kettlewell for a managerial candidate, not my cup of tea, but just listened to his interview preview of Saturday's game and he comes over very well. Respectful of Hibs and positive vibes on game. Get the feeling they go in tails up as an opportunity for top 6 and we go in with negative vibes feeling already blown that opportunity.
Probably not the case, just the sense I get

[superfurryhibby]

They certainly followed the results. What evidence is there that it was a minority? Certainly didn't seem like a minority on here when he was punted?

We can't really know whether it was a minority or not, but I certainly recall Ross's sacking as being pretty widely supported on here and by supporters, judging by fan responses in stadiums when we were losing to the likes of Livi , St Johnston etc.

I think the good will you would usually extend to a HIbs manager who finished third was diminished by the cup losses to St Johnston and Hearts (the Rangers win was not enough to temper boardroom disquiet). Hindsight is a great thing, but looking back, Ross was hard done to. The investment in the side was poor after finishing third and that run of poor form, culminating in the Livi debacle was enough to tip Ron over the edge. I doubt very much whether our then owner was reading Hibs.Net at the time though, so I wouldn't credit this forum with much influence on Ron's decision.

I still want McInnes. I don't get the line of he would never come here etc. He would have a big wage increase and the chance to take over a team with much greater potential than Killie. He's been around for donkeys years, but is still in his early 50's, I would imagine he knows he's taken Killie as far as they can go.


St Johnstone 27 November 2007 19 October 2011 177 71 53 53 40.11
Bristol City 19 October 2011 12 January 2013 63 17 14 32 26.98
Aberdeen 7 April 2013 8 March 2021 378 202 75 101 53.44
Kilmarnock 4 January 2022 present 108 46 25 37 42.59

Total 726 336 167 223 46.28

[Silky]

We can't really know whether it was a minority or not, but I certainly recall Ross's sacking as being pretty widely supported on here and by supporters, judging by fan responses in stadiums when we were losing to the likes of Livi , St Johnston etc.

I think the good will you would usually extend to a HIbs manager who finished third was diminished by the cup losses to St Johnston and Hearts (the Rangers win was not enough to temper boardroom disquiet). Hindsight is a great thing, but looking back, Ross was hard done to. The investment in the side was poor after finishing third and that run of poor form, culminating in the Livi debacle was enough to tip Ron over the edge. I doubt very much whether our then owner was reading Hibs.Net at the time though, so I wouldn't credit this forum with much influence on Ron's decision.

I still want McInnes. I don't get the line of he would never come here etc. He would have a big wage increase and the chance to take over a team with much greater potential than Killie. He's been around for donkeys years, but is still in his early 50's, I would imagine he knows he's taken Killie as far as they can go.


St Johnstone 27 November 2007 19 October 2011 177 71 53 53 40.11
Bristol City 19 October 2011 12 January 2013 63 17 14 32 26.98
Aberdeen 7 April 2013 8 March 2021 378 202 75 101 53.44
Kilmarnock 4 January 2022 present 108 46 25 37 42.59

Total 726 336 167 223 46.28

He'd never get the time he got with St Johnstone and Aberdeen at Hibs. Never. That said, I don't think he'd be any good here.

[Centre Hawf]

I think there is always a lot of revisionism when it comes to Jack Ross and the general feeling around his sacking at the time, he was however in hindsight mostly a victim of being good enough to be so close but unable to deliver a true piece of success in that -

He got us third that sadly didn't yield group stage football yet,
Lost a very winnable cup final,
Two other semi final exits that year to poor teams (technically if you count Hearts in that same campaign).

Fans were quite rightly annoyed that we didn't capitalise on what was a very weak time for a whole host of clubs and win at least one of the three trophies we had a genuine chance of winning (Celtic were more than beatable that day Hearts played them). Instead we had to watch St Johnstone do something incredible that I seriously doubt we'll see again for 20/30 years at least from another non Old Firm team.

There was, for the most part, a feeling around the start of the 21/22 season that we were not far away from really pushing on a level and winning something or getting group stage football with the right signings. But there was always question marks on whether Ross was the man to get us over that line due to what happened in the previous season, to say otherwise is burying your head in the sand. Unfortunately going into that night at Livingston the feeling was growing stronger that Ross was already on borrowed time, the question between most of us after full-time (before we knew he was sacked) was do you wait and give him the final?

[Since452]

I think there is always a lot of revisionism when it comes to Jack Ross and the general feeling around his sacking at the time, he was however in hindsight mostly a victim of being good enough to be so close but unable to deliver a true piece of success in that -

He got us third that sadly didn't yield group stage football yet,
Lost a very winnable cup final,
Two other semi final exits that year to poor teams (technically if you count Hearts in that same campaign).

Fans were quite rightly annoyed that we didn't capitalise on what was a very weak time for a whole host of clubs and win at least one of the three trophies we had a genuine chance of winning (Celtic were more than beatable that day Hearts played them). Instead we had to watch St Johnstone do something incredible that I seriously doubt we'll see again for 20/30 years at least from another non Old Firm team.

There was, for the most part, a feeling around the start of the 21/22 season that we were not far away from really pushing on a level and winning something or getting group stage football with the right signings. But there was always question marks on whether Ross was the man to get us over that line due to what happened in the previous season, to say otherwise is burying your head in the sand. Unfortunately going into that night at Livingston the feeling was growing stronger that Ross was already on borrowed time, the question between most of us after full-time (before we knew he was sacked) was do you wait and give him the final?

One of the many "what if" questions that will always be asked by Hibs fans now. The semi final against Rangers ranks very high on my list of Hibs games. Fantastic night, brilliant atmosphere in our end and top performance. Will always reckon we'd have pulled it off in the final under Ross. Was his chance for redemption.

[matty_f]

We can't really know whether it was a minority or not, but I certainly recall Ross's sacking as being pretty widely supported on here and by supporters, judging by fan responses in stadiums when we were losing to the likes of Livi , St Johnston etc.

I think the good will you would usually extend to a HIbs manager who finished third was diminished by the cup losses to St Johnston and Hearts (the Rangers win was not enough to temper boardroom disquiet). Hindsight is a great thing, but looking back, Ross was hard done to. The investment in the side was poor after finishing third and that run of poor form, culminating in the Livi debacle was enough to tip Ron over the edge. I doubt very much whether our then owner was reading Hibs.Net at the time though, so I wouldn't credit this forum with much influence on Ron's decision.

I still want McInnes. I don't get the line of he would never come here etc. He would have a big wage increase and the chance to take over a team with much greater potential than Killie. He's been around for donkeys years, but is still in his early 50's, I would imagine he knows he's taken Killie as far as they can go.


St Johnstone 27 November 2007 19 October 2011 177 71 53 53 40.11
Bristol City 19 October 2011 12 January 2013 63 17 14 32 26.98
Aberdeen 7 April 2013 8 March 2021 378 202 75 101 53.44
Kilmarnock 4 January 2022 present 108 46 25 37 42.59

Total 726 336 167 223 46.28

I think Ross’ sacking was a complete paradox in that it was the right thing to do as well as the wrong thing to do.

Inexcusably bad results combined with a complete split in the support in the for/against camp meant that something had to be done, but at the same time I think there’s an equally strong view that Ross would have turned it around and the stability would have been beneficial - certainly when I’ve spoken to players from that time , without exception they’d have given him longer and enjoyed playing under him.


What’s done is done, though.

I think there are close parallels to be drawn with the timing of Johnson's sacking and where we are today, and what lessons have been learned from it.

Johnson scraped into the top 6 on the final game of the split, eventually finishing fifth and arguably benefiting from facing Celtic after the title was wrapped up. In both the final pre-split match v St Johnstone and the final game of the season at Tiny, we needed a win to have meeting our targets in our own hands.
We won neither of them. You could include the 0-0 at Aberdeen in that category of crucial games where we came up short.

We may yet repeat that feat and finish top six, with 4th still arithmetically possible, I think.

Johnson's finish meant he stayed through the summer and had a terrible start to the league campaign, was sacked, and we're now at the point of writing up the season as not long enough for Monty to make a difference.

The similarities are stark. If we get top six, I think he'll stay. Will we have a different start to next season from how we've been this season? I don't think there's any hard evidence to suggest we will, so if I was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on history repeating itself and us looking for a new manager at a time where he'll be severely hamstrung by what's gone before him.

It's a massive gamble if we stick with him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think Ross’ sacking was a complete paradox in that it was the right thing to do as well as the wrong thing to do.

Inexcusably bad results combined with a complete split in the support in the for/against camp meant that something had to be done, but at the same time I think there’s an equally strong view that Ross would have turned it around and the stability would have been beneficial - certainly when I’ve spoken to players from that time , without exception they’d have given him longer and enjoyed playing under him.


What’s done is done, though.

I think there are close parallels to be drawn with the timing of Johnson's sacking and where we are today, and what lessons have been learned from it.

Johnson scraped into the top 6 on the final game of the split, eventually finishing fifth and arguably benefiting from facing Celtic after the title was wrapped up. In both the final pre-split match v St Johnstone and the final game of the season at Tiny, we needed a win to have meeting our targets in our own hands.
We won neither of them. You could include the 0-0 at Aberdeen in that category of crucial games where we came up short.

We may yet repeat that feat and finish top six, with 4th still arithmetically possible, I think.

Johnson's finish meant he stayed through the summer and had a terrible start to the league campaign, was sacked, and we're now at the point of writing up the season as not long enough for Monty to make a difference.

The similarities are stark. If we get top six, I think he'll stay. Will we have a different start to next season from how we've been this season? I don't think there's any hard evidence to suggest we will, so if I was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on history repeating itself and us looking for a new manager at a time where he'll be severely hamstrung by what's gone before him.

It's a massive gamble if we stick with him.

Good post :agree:

[bingo70]

I think Ross’ sacking was a complete paradox in that it was the right thing to do as well as the wrong thing to do.

Inexcusably bad results combined with a complete split in the support in the for/against camp meant that something had to be done, but at the same time I think there’s an equally strong view that Ross would have turned it around and the stability would have been beneficial - certainly when I’ve spoken to players from that time , without exception they’d have given him longer and enjoyed playing under him.


What’s done is done, though.

I think there are close parallels to be drawn with the timing of Johnson's sacking and where we are today, and what lessons have been learned from it.

Johnson scraped into the top 6 on the final game of the split, eventually finishing fifth and arguably benefiting from facing Celtic after the title was wrapped up. In both the final pre-split match v St Johnstone and the final game of the season at Tiny, we needed a win to have meeting our targets in our own hands.
We won neither of them. You could include the 0-0 at Aberdeen in that category of crucial games where we came up short.

We may yet repeat that feat and finish top six, with 4th still arithmetically possible, I think.

Johnson's finish meant he stayed through the summer and had a terrible start to the league campaign, was sacked, and we're now at the point of writing up the season as not long enough for Monty to make a difference.

The similarities are stark. If we get top six, I think he'll stay. Will we have a different start to next season from how we've been this season? I don't think there's any hard evidence to suggest we will, so if I was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on history repeating itself and us looking for a new manager at a time where he'll be severely hamstrung by what's gone before him.

It's a massive gamble if we stick with him.

Good post, agree with a lot of it.

Regarding him staying if we make top 6, I’ve been leaning towards that as well, the only thing that’s making me doubt it is the Black Knights involvement.

Scraping into the top 6 might be enough for some to have something to build on, will it be enough for them and where they want Hibs to get to?

There’s a poster that is consistently said Monty is effectively on an extended trial and I completely agree. Making the top 6 and finishing 6th probably won’t be enough imo, finishing top 6 b it then kicking on and winning a few games after the split may be needed to put some credit in the bank.

[ChilliEater]

I think Ross’ sacking was a complete paradox in that it was the right thing to do as well as the wrong thing to do.

Inexcusably bad results combined with a complete split in the support in the for/against camp meant that something had to be done, but at the same time I think there’s an equally strong view that Ross would have turned it around and the stability would have been beneficial - certainly when I’ve spoken to players from that time , without exception they’d have given him longer and enjoyed playing under him.


What’s done is done, though.

I think there are close parallels to be drawn with the timing of Johnson's sacking and where we are today, and what lessons have been learned from it.

Johnson scraped into the top 6 on the final game of the split, eventually finishing fifth and arguably benefiting from facing Celtic after the title was wrapped up. In both the final pre-split match v St Johnstone and the final game of the season at Tiny, we needed a win to have meeting our targets in our own hands.
We won neither of them. You could include the 0-0 at Aberdeen in that category of crucial games where we came up short.

We may yet repeat that feat and finish top six, with 4th still arithmetically possible, I think.

Johnson's finish meant he stayed through the summer and had a terrible start to the league campaign, was sacked, and we're now at the point of writing up the season as not long enough for Monty to make a difference.

The similarities are stark. If we get top six, I think he'll stay. Will we have a different start to next season from how we've been this season? I don't think there's any hard evidence to suggest we will, so if I was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on history repeating itself and us looking for a new manager at a time where he'll be severely hamstrung by what's gone before him.

It's a massive gamble if we stick with him.

The first bit in bold is where I think there is a major difference between LJ and NM. The impression I get is that the players couldn't stand playing for LJ but do enjoy playing for NM, which makes me think he might have a reasonable chance of turning it around. He clearly makes mistakes, and there are all sorts of concerns about how good he may or may not be, such as his poor substitutions and refusal to use Hanlon and Stevenson's experience to help a shakey defence, but turning us around after an underwhelming last 3 or 4 years was never going to be a quick fix, even if we appointed Klopp and Pep to work together. I also don't think we'll plummet downwards under him either, so I don't think it's really that massive a gamble to keep him - it may well be better to get rid, if there is someone clearly better available, but he doesn't look like doing a Butcher or Duffy-esque slide to relegation.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think Ross’ sacking was a complete paradox in that it was the right thing to do as well as the wrong thing to do.

Inexcusably bad results combined with a complete split in the support in the for/against camp meant that something had to be done, but at the same time I think there’s an equally strong view that Ross would have turned it around and the stability would have been beneficial - certainly when I’ve spoken to players from that time , without exception they’d have given him longer and enjoyed playing under him.


What’s done is done, though.

I think there are close parallels to be drawn with the timing of Johnson's sacking and where we are today, and what lessons have been learned from it.

Johnson scraped into the top 6 on the final game of the split, eventually finishing fifth and arguably benefiting from facing Celtic after the title was wrapped up. In both the final pre-split match v St Johnstone and the final game of the season at Tiny, we needed a win to have meeting our targets in our own hands.
We won neither of them. You could include the 0-0 at Aberdeen in that category of crucial games where we came up short.

We may yet repeat that feat and finish top six, with 4th still arithmetically possible, I think.

Johnson's finish meant he stayed through the summer and had a terrible start to the league campaign, was sacked, and we're now at the point of writing up the season as not long enough for Monty to make a difference.

The similarities are stark. If we get top six, I think he'll stay. Will we have a different start to next season from how we've been this season? I don't think there's any hard evidence to suggest we will, so if I was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on history repeating itself and us looking for a new manager at a time where he'll be severely hamstrung by what's gone before him.

It's a massive gamble if we stick with him.

It's also a massive gamble not sticking with him , maybe even more so .

[Hiber-nation]

on here is the minority. Its the minority that go out of their way to talk about Hibs on forums and twitter. The majority just want to go and watch the football.

I don't actually know anyone who wanted JR to continue as Hibs manager. At the tail end of his reign results were awful, football far worse than what we're witnessing now and attendances were dreadful. We started off the season so well but when Magennis and Doidge got injured it all fell apart.

I still maintain he deserved more time to turn it round but I was happy enough when he went.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It's also a massive gamble not sticking with him , maybe even more so .

Is it?

If he gets sacked then it’s likely we’ll have ended up bottom 6 and he’ll likely have won 11 out of 34 games with two of them being against teams from lower leagues. Are we likely to appoint a manager who will do worse than that? I very much doubt it.

[Centre Hawf]

One of the many "what if" questions that will always be asked by Hibs fans now. The semi final against Rangers ranks very high on my list of Hibs games. Fantastic night, brilliant atmosphere in our end and top performance. Will always reckon we'd have pulled it off in the final under Ross. Was his chance for redemption.

I think in hindsight him not getting the final was probably the more unfair element of his sacking.

[matty_f]

It's also a massive gamble not sticking with him , maybe even more so .

I wouldn't say it is more so. More so would be when the outcome is guesswork.

While they can't predict the future, we do have experience of this situation now so we know what happened when we stuck with Johnson. That should inform our actions this time otherwise we've learnt nothing.

[Winston Ingram]

on here is the minority. Its the minority that go out of their way to talk about Hibs on forums and twitter. The majority just want to go and watch the football.

I'll bow to your ability to understand what people you don't know are thinking. :rolleyes:

[Winston Ingram]

We can't really know whether it was a minority or not, but I certainly recall Ross's sacking as being pretty widely supported on here and by supporters, judging by fan responses in stadiums when we were losing to the likes of Livi , St Johnston etc.

I think the good will you would usually extend to a HIbs manager who finished third was diminished by the cup losses to St Johnston and Hearts (the Rangers win was not enough to temper boardroom disquiet). Hindsight is a great thing, but looking back, Ross was hard done to. The investment in the side was poor after finishing third and that run of poor form, culminating in the Livi debacle was enough to tip Ron over the edge. I doubt very much whether our then owner was reading Hibs.Net at the time though, so I wouldn't credit this forum with much influence on Ron's decision.

I still want McInnes. I don't get the line of he would never come here etc. He would have a big wage increase and the chance to take over a team with much greater potential than Killie. He's been around for donkeys years, but is still in his early 50's, I would imagine he knows he's taken Killie as far as they can go.


St Johnstone 27 November 2007 19 October 2011 177 71 53 53 40.11
Bristol City 19 October 2011 12 January 2013 63 17 14 32 26.98
Aberdeen 7 April 2013 8 March 2021 378 202 75 101 53.44
Kilmarnock 4 January 2022 present 108 46 25 37 42.59

Total 726 336 167 223 46.28

That's my point but mind readers on here were posting it as fact.

[Winston Ingram]

It's also a massive gamble not sticking with him , maybe even more so .

Sorry, it's a massive gamble sticking with a manager who has made the team worse, won 8 league games out of 30 and shown absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he has a clue what he was doing?

Judging by the speed at which this guy learns, the only way it wouldn't be a gamble is if the target was bottom 6.

[Donegal Hibby]

Is it?

If he gets sacked then it’s likely we’ll have ended up bottom 6. Are we likely to appoint a manager who will do worse than that? I very much doubt it.

If he's sacked , yes it will be for finishing in the bottom 6 though after only one transfer window, no pre season and considering the amount of decisions that's cost us points this year I'd say it would be pretty ruthless sacking him taking EVERYTHING into account.

Could be another Maloney , butcher or Calderwood again , might be a Mowbray or Stubbs too though .Most of the names mentioned on here aren't very inspiring or fill me with any great confidence that things will be any better anyhow .

So I'd say it's just as big a gamble and maybe more so .

[jeffers]

I wouldn't say it is more so. More so would be when the outcome is guesswork.

While they can't predict the future, we do have experience of this situation now so we know what happened when we stuck with Johnson. That should inform our actions this time otherwise we've learnt nothing.

:agree: Repeating myself but it’s why I keep saying making the Top 6 or not shouldn’t come into any thinking about sticking with him or not. He’s had all bar the first 3 league games to show what he’s got and it’s been nowhere near good enough. The idea that getting rid of him is a bigger gamble than sticking with him is mental.

For anyone staying stick with him it’s got to be wishful thinking rather than anything they’ve been watching this season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If he's sacked , yes it will be for finishing in the bottom 6 though after only one transfer window, no pre season and considering the amount of decisions that's cost us points this year I'd say it would be pretty ruthless sacking him taking EVERYTHING into account.

Could be another Maloney , butcher or Calderwood again , might be a Mowbray or Stubbs too though .Most of the names mentioned on here aren't very inspiring or fill me with any great confidence that things will be any better anyhow .

So I'd say it's just as big a gamble and maybe more so .

He got a transfer window where we’ve ended up with two of the most expensive players we’ve probably ever had signed for us playing for us and he got a winter break, complete with warm weather training camp etc so I’m not sure a pre season would have made any real difference considering the sort of mini pre season he got in the winter didn’t make much odds.

If it ended up another Maloney we wouldn’t be any worse off than we are now. Maloney probably done a better job at Hibs than Montgomery has done considering the squads they both had available and that’s really saying something.

Keeping him on would be the biggest gamble imo. And it would be a gamble that would be destined to fail.

[J-C]

Would the way Hibs played under Ross also a factor in fans turning on him too ? .

Ross played counter attack which didn't help against teams who sit in and also play counter attack, hence it was a bit boring and probably why we couldn't beat St Johnstone.

[Winston Ingram]

If he's sacked , yes it will be for finishing in the bottom 6 though after only one transfer window, no pre season and considering the amount of decisions that's cost us points this year I'd say it would be pretty ruthless sacking him taking EVERYTHING into account.

Could be another Maloney , butcher or Calderwood again , might be a Mowbray or Stubbs too though .Most of the names mentioned on here aren't very inspiring or fill me with any great confidence that things will be any better anyhow .

So I'd say it's just as big a gamble and maybe more so .

I am taking everything into account. it should be simple for a manager of any substance to get a squad of that quality above Killie and St Mirren. The fact that we're blaming a decision here or there is irrelevant. Proper managers don't need 'a window'. They get the best out of what they have. He's had 30 league games to do that and failed massively.

The suggestion that we should stick with a boy who's demonstrated no competence whatsoever because we might hire someone else ***** is probably one of the most bat**** suggestions that I've seen on here. Proper definition of insanity stuff that. All it guarantees us is being **** next year as well.

[hibeerealist]

I think Ross’ sacking was a complete paradox in that it was the right thing to do as well as the wrong thing to do.

Inexcusably bad results combined with a complete split in the support in the for/against camp meant that something had to be done, but at the same time I think there’s an equally strong view that Ross would have turned it around and the stability would have been beneficial - certainly when I’ve spoken to players from that time , without exception they’d have given him longer and enjoyed playing under him.


What’s done is done, though.

I think there are close parallels to be drawn with the timing of Johnson's sacking and where we are today, and what lessons have been learned from it.

Johnson scraped into the top 6 on the final game of the split, eventually finishing fifth and arguably benefiting from facing Celtic after the title was wrapped up. In both the final pre-split match v St Johnstone and the final game of the season at Tiny, we needed a win to have meeting our targets in our own hands.
We won neither of them. You could include the 0-0 at Aberdeen in that category of crucial games where we came up short.

We may yet repeat that feat and finish top six, with 4th still arithmetically possible, I think.

Johnson's finish meant he stayed through the summer and had a terrible start to the league campaign, was sacked, and we're now at the point of writing up the season as not long enough for Monty to make a difference.

The similarities are stark. If we get top six, I think he'll stay. Will we have a different start to next season from how we've been this season? I don't think there's any hard evidence to suggest we will, so if I was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on history repeating itself and us looking for a new manager at a time where he'll be severely hamstrung by what's gone before him.

It's a massive gamble if we stick with him.

Good post Matty.

There are a few on this forum pointing to VAR/refereeing F ups and this being the reason NM has not made top 6. I agree that some decisions have been harsh on us, however, NM has a list of contributing factors that cost us points;

Formation, substitutions, players in wrong position (square peg round hole) etc so he has not helped matters when it comes down to securing points. All very frustrating

[Winston Ingram]

I think Ross’ sacking was a complete paradox in that it was the right thing to do as well as the wrong thing to do.

Inexcusably bad results combined with a complete split in the support in the for/against camp meant that something had to be done, but at the same time I think there’s an equally strong view that Ross would have turned it around and the stability would have been beneficial - certainly when I’ve spoken to players from that time , without exception they’d have given him longer and enjoyed playing under him.


What’s done is done, though.

I think there are close parallels to be drawn with the timing of Johnson's sacking and where we are today, and what lessons have been learned from it.

Johnson scraped into the top 6 on the final game of the split, eventually finishing fifth and arguably benefiting from facing Celtic after the title was wrapped up. In both the final pre-split match v St Johnstone and the final game of the season at Tiny, we needed a win to have meeting our targets in our own hands.
We won neither of them. You could include the 0-0 at Aberdeen in that category of crucial games where we came up short.

We may yet repeat that feat and finish top six, with 4th still arithmetically possible, I think.

Johnson's finish meant he stayed through the summer and had a terrible start to the league campaign, was sacked, and we're now at the point of writing up the season as not long enough for Monty to make a difference.

The similarities are stark. If we get top six, I think he'll stay. Will we have a different start to next season from how we've been this season? I don't think there's any hard evidence to suggest we will, so if I was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on history repeating itself and us looking for a new manager at a time where he'll be severely hamstrung by what's gone before him.

It's a massive gamble if we stick with him.

That's a brilliant summary Matty.

[Heisenberg]

I think Ross’ sacking was a complete paradox in that it was the right thing to do as well as the wrong thing to do.

Inexcusably bad results combined with a complete split in the support in the for/against camp meant that something had to be done, but at the same time I think there’s an equally strong view that Ross would have turned it around and the stability would have been beneficial - certainly when I’ve spoken to players from that time , without exception they’d have given him longer and enjoyed playing under him.


What’s done is done, though.

I think there are close parallels to be drawn with the timing of Johnson's sacking and where we are today, and what lessons have been learned from it.

Johnson scraped into the top 6 on the final game of the split, eventually finishing fifth and arguably benefiting from facing Celtic after the title was wrapped up. In both the final pre-split match v St Johnstone and the final game of the season at Tiny, we needed a win to have meeting our targets in our own hands.
We won neither of them. You could include the 0-0 at Aberdeen in that category of crucial games where we came up short.

We may yet repeat that feat and finish top six, with 4th still arithmetically possible, I think.

Johnson's finish meant he stayed through the summer and had a terrible start to the league campaign, was sacked, and we're now at the point of writing up the season as not long enough for Monty to make a difference.

The similarities are stark. If we get top six, I think he'll stay. Will we have a different start to next season from how we've been this season? I don't think there's any hard evidence to suggest we will, so if I was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on history repeating itself and us looking for a new manager at a time where he'll be severely hamstrung by what's gone before him.

It's a massive gamble if we stick with him.

Can’t argue with any of that, Monty managing to do worse than Johnson isn’t excusable for me. If bottom six is confirmed on Saturday he should be out the door immediately.

[Aldo]

I am taking everything into account. it should be simple for a manager of any substance to get a squad of that quality above Killie and St Mirren. The fact that we're blaming a decision here or there is irrelevant. Proper managers don't need 'a window'. They get the best out of what they have. He's had 30 league games to do that and failed massively.

The suggestion that we should stick with a boy who's demonstrated no competence whatsoever because we might hire someone else ***** is probably one of the most bat**** suggestions that I've seen on here. Proper definition of insanity stuff that. All it guarantees us is being **** next year as well.

This. Saved me typing!

[Donegal Hibby]

He got a transfer window where we’ve ended up with two of the most expensive players we’ve probably ever had signed for us playing for us and he got a winter break, complete with warm weather training camp etc so I’m not sure a pre season would have made any real difference considering the sort of mini pre season he got in the winter didn’t make much odds.

If it ended up another Maloney we wouldn’t be any worse off than we are now. Maloney probably done a better job at Hibs than Montgomery has done considering the squads they both had available and that’s really saying something.

Keeping him on would be the biggest gamble imo. And it would be a gamble that would be destined to fail.

He did get a transfer window which is renowned to be the hardest one to do business in and as I'm sure your aware some of our January transfer signings needed time to get up to speed including one or possibly two of the most expensive ones .

Being not sure that a preseason wouldn't make a difference doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't mate though what does make a difference is a summer window opposed to a January one ( big difference) .

As to Maloney doing better again I'm not so sure in that , certainly a lot of Wigan fans who are now wanting him out would probably disagree as well .

Anyhow we probably wouldn't be talking about replacing the manager if we hadn't been shafted out of a fair few points this season too .

Hopefully a win at Motherwell and a wait then for what is another farcical decision that's not fair to us again to see if we make the top 6 or not 👍.

[Centre Hawf]

He did get a transfer window which is renowned to be the hardest one to do business in and as I'm sure your aware some of our January transfer signings needed time to get up to speed including one or possibly two of the most expensive ones .

Being not sure that a preseason wouldn't make a difference doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't mate though what does make a difference is a summer window opposed to a January one ( big difference) .

As to Maloney doing better again I'm not so sure in that , certainly a lot of Wigan fans who are now wanting him out would probably disagree as well .

Anyhow we probably wouldn't be talking about replacing the manager if we hadn't been shafted out of a fair few points this season too .

Hopefully a win at Motherwell and a wait then for what is another farcical decision that's not fair to us again to see if we make the top 6 or not ��.

Doesn't really matter what Wigan fans think of Maloney now, I'm sure CCM think Monty is the best guy going. What matters is what they do at Easter Road and right now Montgomery has done at least the exact same as Maloney has with a much better squad.

Not saying I want Maloney back but when you consider Maloney got us to Hampden and also fluffed top 6 on the final day (which looks like we're potentially going to match this year) with a team that consisted of Drey Wright/Ewan Henderson in Marcondes' role, James Scott instead of ALF/Vente and Chris Mueller/Sylvester Jasper instead of Maolida, Elie, and Boyle. It's either a near miracle we even managed to get as close to top 6 as we did or Montgomery has simply made a pigs ear of this season. I know which one I think it is.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Doesn't really matter what Wigan fans think of Maloney now, I'm sure CCM think Monty is the best guy going. What matters is what they do at Easter Road and right now Montgomery has done at least the exact same as Maloney has with a much better squad.

Not saying I want Maloney back but when you consider Maloney got us to Hampden and also fluffed top 6 on the final day (which looks like we're potentially going to match this year) with a team that consisted of Drey Wright/Ewan Henderson in Marcondes' role, James Scott instead of ALF/Vente and Chris Mueller/Sylvester Jasper instead of Maolida, Elie, and Boyle. It's either a near miracle we even managed to get as close to top 6 as we did or Montgomery has simply made a pigs ear of this season. I know which one I think it is.

:agree:

[Donegal Hibby]

Doesn't really matter what Wigan fans think of Maloney now, I'm sure CCM think Monty is the best guy going. What matters is what they do at Easter Road and right now Montgomery has done at least the exact same as Maloney has with a much better squad.

Not saying I want Maloney back but when you consider Maloney got us to Hampden and also fluffed top 6 on the final day (which looks like we're potentially going to match this year) with a team that consisted of Drey Wright/Ewan Henderson in Marcondes' role, James Scott instead of ALF/Vente and Chris Mueller/Sylvester Jasper instead of Maolida, Elie, and Boyle. It's either a near miracle we even managed to get as close to top 6 as we did or Montgomery has simply made a pigs ear of this season. I know which one I think it is.

What the Wigan fans think really does matter when we are making comparisons with both managers. It shows Maloney that's after going down a league and is now in a league were his club is one of the biggest clubs in it is failing again with exactly the same sort of complaints about what he's doing or should I say the lack of it .

I think we'd have been comfortably sitting in the top 6 taking into account injuries , players away international duty if we hadn't got the horrendous decisions that have ultimately cost us a fair few points .

This is the reason I'd give the current manager the summer rather than wanting to see a Ian Murray , McCabe , Lennon or McInnes etc who wont survive long at us anyhow !

[Centre Hawf]

What the Wigan fans think really does matter when we are making comparisons with both managers. It shows Maloney that's after going down a league and is now in a league were his club is one of the biggest clubs in it is failing again with exactly the same sort of complaints about what he's doing or should I say the lack of it .

I think we'd have been comfortably sitting in the top 6 taking into account injuries , players away international duty if we hadn't got the horrendous decisions that have ultimately cost us a fair few points .

This is the reason I'd give the current manager the summer rather than wanting to see a Ian Murray , McCabe , Lennon or McInnes etc who wont survive long at us anyhow !

It only matters to compound the fact that Maloney is not a good manager. Something no one will here will disagree with. The fact our current manager is doing arguably worse than him isn't the defence you think it is of him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

What the Wigan fans think really does matter when we are making comparisons with both managers. It shows Maloney that's after going down a league and is now in a league were his club is one of the biggest clubs in it is failing again with exactly the same sort of complaints about what he's doing or should I say the lack of it .

I think we'd have been comfortably sitting in the top 6 taking into account injuries , players away international duty if we hadn't got the horrendous decisions that have ultimately cost us a fair few points .

This is the reason I'd give the current manager the summer rather than wanting to see a Ian Murray , McCabe , Lennon or McInnes etc who wont survive long at us anyhow !

Are we going to remove injuries and international duty etc for everyone else as well in this hypothetical scenario? Or are we going to pretend it’s just us that is ever hard done by?

Do St Mirren get their 3 best players, Baccus, Strain and O’Hara available every week? They’ve missed 37 league games combined. What does that do to their results? Do Dundee get Owen Beck who’s currently out injured available every week? Or Portales who’s missed the majority of league games? Lennon Miller for Motherwell has missed over a third of the season. So has Slattery.

[WhileTheChief..]

I am taking everything into account. it should be simple for a manager of any substance to get a squad of that quality above Killie and St Mirren. The fact that we're blaming a decision here or there is irrelevant. Proper managers don't need 'a window'. They get the best out of what they have. He's had 30 league games to do that and failed massively.

The suggestion that we should stick with a boy who's demonstrated no competence whatsoever because we might hire someone else ***** is probably one of the most bat**** suggestions that I've seen on here. Proper definition of insanity stuff that. All it guarantees us is being **** next year as well.

Brilliant post. Probably what most of us are thinking.

[Hibernian Verse]

Brilliant post. Probably what most of us are thinking.

I don't know if you're right or wrong, but very intelligent choice of phrase. Either you are right and that's fine, or you're wrong but you're convincing people to join the pack mentality.

:greengrin

[Brightside]

I don't know if you're right or wrong, but very intelligent choice of phrase. Either you are right and that's fine, or you're wrong but you're convincing people to join the pack mentality.

:greengrin

:wink:

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't know if you're right or wrong, but very intelligent choice of phrase. Either you are right and that's fine, or you're wrong but you're convincing people to join the pack mentality.

:greengrin

My experience of going to ER the season tells me the fans have had enough of NM, I'd imagine you feel much the same way?

It's not pack mentality, it's consensus.

[blackpoolhibs]

I am taking everything into account. it should be simple for a manager of any substance to get a squad of that quality above Killie and St Mirren. The fact that we're blaming a decision here or there is irrelevant. Proper managers don't need 'a window'. They get the best out of what they have. He's had 30 league games to do that and failed massively.

The suggestion that we should stick with a boy who's demonstrated no competence whatsoever because we might hire someone else ***** is probably one of the most bat**** suggestions that I've seen on here. Proper definition of insanity stuff that. All it guarantees us is being **** next year as well.


Sorry, it's a massive gamble sticking with a manager who has made the team worse, won 8 league games out of 30 and shown absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he has a clue what he was doing?

Judging by the speed at which this guy learns, the only way it wouldn't be a gamble is if the target was bottom 6.
:top marks

[Brightside]

My experience of going to ER the season tells me the fans have had enough of NM, I'd imagine you feel much the same way?

It's not pack mentality, it's consensus.

My experience is there are a minority of fans that clearly have had enough of NM. They also tend to be the ones that complain about the players the most also, or the cold water taps, or the crusty pie. Most people just go and watch the football. Leave happy or disappointed and then turn up next week for the same again.

[Winston Ingram]

My experience is there are a minority of fans that clearly have had enough of NM. They also tend to be the ones that complain about the players the most also, or the cold water taps, or the crusty pie. Most people just go and watch the football. Leave happy or disappointed and then turn up next week for the same again.

How do you know it’s minority? The buses I travel on, the groups I go to games with, the pubs I drink in, the people that sit around me at ER, the WhatsApp groups I’m part of, people I golf with, the consensus I’m picking up on here. Literally no one I know believes he should stay. Saying that, my Jambo pals want him to stay.

[Donegal Hibby]

It only matters to compound the fact that Maloney is not a good manager. Something no one will here will disagree with. The fact our current manager is doing arguably worse than him isn't the defence you think it is of him.

I think theres been unfortunate circumstances that the latest ones had like a penalty for hertz , clear hand ball at pittodrie , added time , throw in to wrong team and the rest that fans aren't taking into account .

Anyhow our opinions won't matter at the end of the day and we'll just have to see how the weekends games go though whatever way they do I'm very much hoping we stick with him and give him the summer to turn things around as I don't feel under a year and one window has been enough time .

I'll leave it at that mate.

[easty]

My experience is there are a minority of fans that clearly have had enough of NM. They also tend to be the ones that complain about the players the most also, or the cold water taps, or the crusty pie. Most people just go and watch the football. Leave happy or disappointed and then turn up next week for the same again.

This isn’t my experience

[easty]

How do you know it’s minority? The buses I travel on, the groups I go to games with, the pubs I drink in, the people that sit around me at ER, the WhatsApp groups I’m part of, people I golf with, the consensus I’m picking up on here. Literally no one I know believes he should stay. Saying that, my Jambo pals want him to stay.

This is my experience

[superfurryhibby]

My experience is there are a minority of fans that clearly have had enough of NM. They also tend to be the ones that complain about the players the most also, or the cold water taps, or the crusty pie. Most people just go and watch the football. Leave happy or disappointed and then turn up next week for the same again.


You know nothing about what people think or how they view the players, taps, pies or whatever.

Patronising guff that mirrors your own tedious always right attitude.

[Centre Hawf]

This is my experience

Have to echo that in the last 5 days there's been a real shift in attitudes towards the manager from people I've spoken to as well.

[Paulie Walnuts]

How do you know it’s minority? The buses I travel on, the groups I go to games with, the pubs I drink in, the people that sit around me at ER, the WhatsApp groups I’m part of, people I golf with, the consensus I’m picking up on here. Literally no one I know believes he should stay. Saying that, my Jambo pals want him to stay.

Exactly how all my Hibs supporting mates/family/neighbours feel. Absolutely nobody I’ve spoke to wants him to stay.

[Wheat Hound]

Ive also noticed a real sea change this last week with an overwhelming majority of Hibees I know having lost all faith in NM and believe he needs to go.

[JimBHibees]

I am taking everything into account. it should be simple for a manager of any substance to get a squad of that quality above Killie and St Mirren. The fact that we're blaming a decision here or there is irrelevant. Proper managers don't need 'a window'. They get the best out of what they have. He's had 30 league games to do that and failed massively.

The suggestion that we should stick with a boy who's demonstrated no competence whatsoever because we might hire someone else ***** is probably one of the most bat**** suggestions that I've seen on here. Proper definition of insanity stuff that. All it guarantees us is being **** next year as well.

You know fine well it is not a decision here and there it has been a catalogue of substantial game changing errors. Beating Celtic Aberdeen and Hearts away would have lifted the whole club.

[Hiber-nation]

My experience is there are a minority of fans that clearly have had enough of NM. They also tend to be the ones that complain about the players the most also, or the cold water taps, or the crusty pie. Most people just go and watch the football. Leave happy or disappointed and then turn up next week for the same again.

You're always having a go at Hibs fans, that they need "educated" and all that guff. I doubt if that is really your experience, I do not know a single Hibs fan who has any faith in NM and that includes my mate who doesn't even complain about the ER coffee.....

[Brightside]

How do you know it’s minority? The buses I travel on, the groups I go to games with, the pubs I drink in, the people that sit around me at ER, the WhatsApp groups I’m part of, people I golf with, the consensus I’m picking up on here. Literally no one I know believes he should stay. Saying that, my Jambo pals want him to stay.

I don't hear 8000 complaining each week. But you know, we all hear different things.

[Winston Ingram]

I don't hear 8000 complaining each week. But you know, we all hear different things.

Unless yer mind reading again, how do you expect to ‘hear’ 8000 people complaining? Just because there aren’t any chants yet, doesn’t mean it’s a minority or a majority.

[Brightside]

You're always having a go at Hibs fans, that they need "educated" and all that guff. I doubt if that is really your experience, I do not know a single Hibs fan who has any faith in NM and that includes my mate who doesn't even complain about the ER coffee.....

I'm not having a go at Hibs fans. I meet 100s most weeks and you wont see me having a go at any of them.

I will though continue to say that I don't believe that Hibs.net is a barometer for the thoughts of the general Hibs fan. The majority of people I meet at Easter Rd or in my social life do not want Monty to be sacked.

[Brightside]

Unless yer mind reading again, how do you expect to ‘hear’ 8000 people complaining? Just because there aren’t any chants yet, doesn’t mean it’s a minority or a majority.

Exactly - so you don't know if its a majority want him out either? We can agree on that. Some people want him out. Some don't want him out.

[Winston Ingram]

Exactly - so you don't know if its a majority want him out either? We can agree on that. Some people want him out. Some don't want him out.

What do ye mean exactly? You were the one claiming it was a minority. I claimed nothing. Just asked you how you knew.

[Brightside]

What do ye mean exactly? You were the one claiming it was a minority. I claimed nothing. Just asked you how you knew.

I was replying to WTC

"Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
My experience of going to ER the season tells me the fans have had enough of NM, I'd imagine you feel much the same way?

It's not pack mentality, it's consensus."


Consensus is majority? I disagree.

[Real Emerald]

My experience is there are a minority of fans that clearly have had enough of NM. They also tend to be the ones that complain about the players the most also, or the cold water taps, or the crusty pie. Most people just go and watch the football. Leave happy or disappointed and then turn up next week for the same again.

Well not my experience of what all my Hibs supporting contacts are saying. Also, how dare you say that the folk who want rid of Monty are the ones who complain most about players. You’re making up nonsense and trying to elevate yourself into some sort of Hibs know it all. Utter pish.

[Winston Ingram]

I was replying to WTC

"Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
My experience of going to ER the season tells me the fans have had enough of NM, I'd imagine you feel much the same way?

It's not pack mentality, it's consensus."


Consensus is majority? I disagree.

Ye’ve lost me there. I was quoting your claim that it was a minority. I asked you why.

I’ve still no idea why ye think it but it looks like ye’ve spoke to a few folk at ER but have decided to ignore the avalanche of people here and decided here is the minority.

[jeffers]

What was the reaction to Monty at the end of the game on Saturday ? That’s usually a decent indication of how fans are feeling.

[Winston Ingram]

What was the reaction to Monty at the end of the game on Saturday ? That’s usually a decent indication of how fans are feeling.

It depends what that reaction is. The current reaction appears to be a shed load of ST’s aren’t bothering to turn up.

Edit: Sorry misread that. Loads of people leaving when St Johnstone took the lead and then shed loads of booing at FT.

[jeffers]

It depends what that reaction is. The current reaction appears to be a shed load of ST’s aren’t bothering to turn up.

Edit: Sorry misread that. Loads of people leaving when St Johnstone took the lead and then shed loads of booing at FT.

Your first sentence is exactly where I’m at.

[Victor]

My experience is there are a minority of fans that clearly have had enough of NM. They also tend to be the ones that complain about the players the most also, or the cold water taps, or the crusty pie. Most people just go and watch the football. Leave happy or disappointed and then turn up next week for the same again.

I’m in this camp.

[Smartie]

My experience is that most folk were in the balance… but Saturday’s shifted things against him a fair bit.

Managerial reigns can pivot on significant single results. The home defeat to Livi turned the tide on LJ. I remember a horsing by Motherwell turning the tide on Duffy, the cup semi defeat sank Hecky, the defeat in the cup semi after failing to make top 6 sank Maloney.

We didn’t even need to play well, we needed to get a result against a terrible side and we failed, as we’ve failed to do throughout the season.

Auntie’s baws - we beat St Johnstone and we’re still in with a shout of 4th, which most people would pretty much acknowledge as being acceptable and would - even grudgingly - give him the benefit of the doubt.

I hesitate to use the “fine margins” phrase but it really does come down to fine margins at this stage in the season. Saturday was abject, it all but confirms failure this season and the goodwill of pretty much everyone who was giving him the benefit of the doubt has run out.

I would really regard the folk I’ve spoken to as the headbanger element either.

[Skol]

You're always having a go at Hibs fans, that they need "educated" and all that guff. I doubt if that is really your experience, I do not know a single Hibs fan who has any faith in NM and that includes my mate who doesn't even complain about the ER coffee.....

I agree with brightside

[Real Emerald]

My experience is that most folk were in the balance… but Saturday’s shifted things against him a fair bit.

Managerial reigns can pivot on significant single results. The home defeat to Livi turned the tide on LJ. I remember a horsing by Motherwell turning the tide on Duffy, the cup semi defeat sank Hecky, the defeat in the cup semi after failing to make top 6 sank Maloney.

We didn’t even need to play well, we needed to get a result against a terrible side and we failed, as we’ve failed to do throughout the season.

Auntie’s baws - we beat St Johnstone and we’re still in with a shout of 4th, which most people would pretty much acknowledge as being acceptable.

I hesitate to use the “fine margins” phrase but it really does come down to fine margins at this stage in the season. Saturday was abject, it all but confirms failure this season and the goodwill of pretty much everyone who was giving him the benefit of the doubt has run out.

I think you’re absolutely right and our position in the table could have been greatly improved if we hadn’t been on the wrong end of so many ridiculous decisions.

However, in my mind it would have been papering over the cracks and although I can’t say if I’m in the majority here but most of the folk I go with, the people who sit around me in the East and all of my Hibs supporting friends are completely fed up watching his brand of football, crazy substitutions and tedious slow play.

On a personal note I’ve no confidence in him, his demeanour, interviews or general sense he can motivate the players let alone the fans, but that’s just my opinion.

[B.H.F.C]

I think the vast majority of folk fall in to that place where if he goes, he goes and they’d lose little sleep about it. I think that’s the way a lot of folk have always felt that way about him.

Saturday was definitely a game changer though. I’ve stuck up for him a fair bit, not because I’ve thought he’s been doing a particularly good job but because I think he’s been pretty unfortunate and deserved the benefit of the doubt. With the number of draws, and even though we’re pish, I don’t think it’s a huge jump to get results regularly. But you can’t come out in a game where you need to win and not play for 50 odd minutes until you go behind.

[Winston Ingram]

My experience is that most folk were in the balance… but Saturday’s shifted things against him a fair bit.

Managerial reigns can pivot on significant single results. The home defeat to Livi turned the tide on LJ. I remember a horsing by Motherwell turning the tide on Duffy, the cup semi defeat sank Hecky, the defeat in the cup semi after failing to make top 6 sank Maloney.

We didn’t even need to play well, we needed to get a result against a terrible side and we failed, as we’ve failed to do throughout the season.

Auntie’s baws - we beat St Johnstone and we’re still in with a shout of 4th, which most people would pretty much acknowledge as being acceptable and would - even grudgingly - give him the benefit of the doubt.

I hesitate to use the “fine margins” phrase but it really does come down to fine margins at this stage in the season. Saturday was abject, it all but confirms failure this season and the goodwill of pretty much everyone who was giving him the benefit of the doubt has run out.

I would really regard the folk I’ve spoken to as the headbanger element either.

This is thing though, it shouldn’t be fine margins against a team as awful as St Johnstone.

[JimBHibees]

I would give him more time and a preseason however no doubt performances like Saturday ain’t helping him. Even a draw would have had us in a decent position. Personally can’t get past the number of horrific decisions which more than likely would have had us comfortably top 6.

[Donegal Hibby]

I would give him more time and a preseason however no doubt performances like Saturday ain’t helping him. Even a draw would have had us in a decent position. Personally can’t get past the number of horrific decisions which more than likely would have had us comfortably top 6.

Totally agree with this .
Was looking at CCM forum and last post here I thought was fairly accurate.
https://www.ccmfans.net/community/threads/hibernian-fc-thread.7088/page-4

[jeffers]

I would give him more time and a preseason however no doubt performances like Saturday ain’t helping him. Even a draw would have had us in a decent position. Personally can’t get past the number of horrific decisions which more than likely would have had us comfortably top 6.

Out of interest Jim what do you see changing for the better and what gives you any confidence that it will ?

[Dmas]

I would give him more time and a preseason however no doubt performances like Saturday ain’t helping him. Even a draw would have had us in a decent position. Personally can’t get past the number of horrific decisions which more than likely would have had us comfortably top 6.

I agree I think he should get preseason another window and up to Jan maybe even beyond Jan as well, there’s as many individual errors costing us points as anything the manager can control, there’s a lot of players not at the required standard a few with the heart of a mouse as well, with a few out of contract this year we can start to shape what he needs, it’s been a tough watch can understand totally why people want shot but it’s been rotten for years it can’t all change immediately there needs to be a bit of patience and let someone build something

[hibeerealist]

I'm not having a go at Hibs fans. I meet 100s most weeks and you wont see me having a go at any of them.

I will though continue to say that I don't believe that Hibs.net is a barometer for the thoughts of the general Hibs fan. The majority of people I meet at Easter Rd or in my social life do not want Monty to be sacked.


Can only assume you are in a tight knit group that keeps themselves to themselves as I don't know any that want him to stay.

[hibeerealist]

I agree with brightside


There must be 4 or 5 now in favour of keeping NM, I don't think that's enough to save him.

[hibbydad]

There must be 4 or 5 now in favour of keeping NM, I don't think that's enough to save him.
He is unsaveable

[Hibees1973]

With the squad Montgomery has had at his disposal since the January transfer window, everyone on hibs.net and at the club would have expected a top 6 place as a minimum.

The money spent on salaries in our squad must dwarf that of the teams around us, bar Aberdeen. Pound for pound this Hibs squad is the worst I've seen. To see us humbled by Levein's St Johnstone last Saturday, at home, made me feel sick.

Montgomery has had enough time to show if he can provide some promise in the future. He has failed miserably so far.

His only chance now is if we win on Saturday, scrape into the top 6, then clinch a place in Europe after the split. Kensell said our accounts would be better next season. We had a £4m loss last year. This can only be achieved if we have European football next season and get through a few rounds.

From what I've seen so far this season under Montgomery I expect we will get beat on Saturday. Our abject defenders will lose a goal or two at set pieces or through a lack of organisation and discipline.

I was happy when Montgomery was appointed. It was a relief to be shot of Johnson, whose interviews with the press were a cringe.

However, if we fail to get into to the top six Montgomery deserves to be sacked. If he stays it will mean a change of tact by The Gordons & Kensell as they sacked our three previous managers who all achieved more than Montgomery.

[Brightside]

Can only assume you are in a tight knit group that keeps themselves to themselves as I don't know any that want him to stay.

I do tend to hang around with generally positive people. Or maybe my positivity rubs off on them. 😂

[Keepthefaith]

You make it sound like St j turned us over... IMO we weren't humbled by them, they beat us with 2 shots on goal both down to defensive errors. Although we didn't play or best, we created enough chances to win, their keeper played a blinder and we should have had a penalty.

When NMW came on I thought we played with more drive and after we scored it looked like only one winner.

This cycle of short termism isn't working so yeah I agreed with bright side too that he needs more time. People are talking about our style being boring but this has been exaggerated due to recent results. For me, the style is right, to keep possession, move the ball around, find the killer passes, but the issue has mostly been the setting of the tempo

If he stays and we get better players in, I think we'll see a better quality version of what he's trying to implement. He's shown it before with CCM that he wants to, and can play an attacking style that we'd all enjoy.

[jeffers]

You make it sound like St j turned us over... IMO we weren't humbled by them, they beat us with 2 shots on goal both down to defensive errors. Although we didn't play or best, we created enough chances to win, their keeper played a blinder and we should have had a penalty.

When NMW came on I thought we played with more drive and after we scored it looked like only one winner.

This cycle of short termism isn't working so yeah I agreed with bright side too that he needs more time. People are talking about our style being boring but this has been exaggerated due to recent results. For me, the style is right, to keep possession, move the ball around, find the killer passes, but the issue has mostly been the setting of the tempo

If he stays and we get better players in, I think we'll see a better quality version of what he's trying to implement. He's shown it before with CCM that he wants to, and can play an attacking style that we'd all enjoy.

How much better do you think the players we are going to sign, certainly in forward areas are going to be ? Better than Boyle, Youan, Maolida, Marcondes and ALF ? All players who’d start for the majority of the teams in the league. Even with them to choose from it’s a bore in the main watching us under Monty.

[Forza Fred]

With the squad Montgomery has had at his disposal since the January transfer window, everyone on hibs.net and at the club would have expected a top 6 place as a minimum.

The money spent on salaries in our squad must dwarf that of the teams around us, bar Aberdeen. Pound for pound this Hibs squad is the worst I've seen. To see us humbled by Levein's St Johnstone last Saturday, at home, made me feel sick.

Montgomery has had enough time to show if he can provide some promise in the future. He has failed miserably so far.

His only chance now is if we win on Saturday, scrape into the top 6, then clinch a place in Europe after the split. Kensell said our accounts would be better next season. We had a £4m loss last year. This can only be achieved if we have European football next season and get through a few rounds.

From what I've seen so far this season under Montgomery I expect we will get beat on Saturday. Our abject defenders will lose a goal or two at set pieces or through a lack of organisation and discipline.

I was happy when Montgomery was appointed. It was a relief to be shot of Johnson, whose interviews with the press were a cringe.

However, if we fail to get into to the top six Montgomery deserves to be sacked. If he stays it will mean a change of tact by The Gordons & Kensell as they sacked our three previous managers who all achieved more than Montgomery.

Phew!

In a long post I thought you for once weren’t going to have a go at Kensell or the Gordons but I misjudged your commitment to your cause and see you managed to squeeze it in, in your last paragraph.

[Weir07]

Phew!

In a long post I thought you for once weren’t going to have a go at Kensell or the Gordons but I misjudged your commitment to your cause and see you managed to squeeze it in, in your last paragraph.

Is he wrong though?

[Forza Fred]

Is he wrong though?


Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

But to answer your question

Paras 1 and 2 appear contradictory…….everybody expected Hibs to make the top six but it’s the worst Hibs squad he’s seen?

Para 4 is incorrect…they don’t need to make Europe for our next accounts to be better than the last one..they simply need to show that any loss is less than last year’s loss.

Para 5 I don’t agree with this but I can’t see into the future admittedly

Para 7 I’m trying to recall what it was that Moloney ‘achieved’….and I think he means ‘tack’ instead of ‘tact’.

[Springbank]

You make it sound like St j turned us over... IMO we weren't humbled by them, they beat us with 2 shots on goal both down to defensive errors. Although we didn't play or best, we created enough chances to win, their keeper played a blinder and we should have had a penalty.

When NMW came on I thought we played with more drive and after we scored it looked like only one winner.

This cycle of short termism isn't working so yeah I agreed with bright side too that he needs more time. People are talking about our style being boring but this has been exaggerated due to recent results. For me, the style is right, to keep possession, move the ball around, find the killer passes, but the issue has mostly been the setting of the tempo

If he stays and we get better players in, I think we'll see a better quality version of what he's trying to implement. He's shown it before with CCM that he wants to, and can play an attacking style that we'd all enjoy.

We could sign Messi & Modric and somehow Levitt & Jair would still be played though

[Hibees1973]

Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

But to answer your question

Paras 1 and 2 appear contradictory…….everybody expected Hibs to make the top six but it’s the worst Hibs squad he’s seen?

Para 4 is incorrect…they don’t need to make Europe for our next accounts to be better than the last one..they simply need to show that any loss is less than last year’s loss.

Para 5 I don’t agree with this but I can’t see into the future admittedly

Para 7 I’m trying to recall what it was that Moloney ‘achieved’….and I think he means ‘tack’ instead of ‘tact’.

I said pound for pound this is the worst Hibs squad I've seen. The money spent on players and wages should comfortably have had us in the top 6 way before now.

My bad. Yes, should be tack.

Know Fred disagrees with me but there should be more focus on the people who have recruited the last 3 duff managers.

[Since452]

I said pound for pound this is the worst Hibs squad I've seen. The money spent on players and wages should comfortably have had us in the top 6 way before now.

My bad. Yes, should be tack.

Know Fred disagrees with me but there should be more focus on the people who have recruited the last 3 duff managers.

I agree about the squad. This might sound strange but they seem more like a collection of players rather than a team. Stubbs's lot for example, win lose or draw felt like a team. You felt part of it. Kicked every ball with them. I don't feel connected to the current players at all. Certainly don't feel connected to the manager. Can barely listen to his robotic waffle. I get the feeling a lot of them will be gone in the summer. I feel like they don't really get it. Whatever it is.

[Brightside]

How much better do you think the players we are going to sign, certainly in forward areas are going to be ? Better than Boyle, Youan, Maolida, Marcondes and ALF ? All players who’d start for the majority of the teams in the league. Even with them to choose from it’s a bore in the main watching us under Monty.

I honestly don’t think it is a bore. Watch a high lights reel of our goals and it’s as good as it’s been for years. People may not like a controlled build up whilst we look for openings but that’s far from dull for me. It’s pretty much how most decent teams play these days. I just want him to have time.

[Hibernian Verse]

My experience of going to ER the season tells me the fans have had enough of NM, I'd imagine you feel much the same way?

It's not pack mentality, it's consensus.

Even when I'm giving you a compliment you're no happy! :wink:

You've done the same with "I'd imagine you feel much the same way" so I'm not sure if I'm having a whoosh moment but it's early. Personally, I don't feel the same way yet but I might tomorrow.

[Hibernian Verse]

My experience is that most folk were in the balance… but Saturday’s shifted things against him a fair bit.

Managerial reigns can pivot on significant single results. The home defeat to Livi turned the tide on LJ. I remember a horsing by Motherwell turning the tide on Duffy, the cup semi defeat sank Hecky, the defeat in the cup semi after failing to make top 6 sank Maloney.

We didn’t even need to play well, we needed to get a result against a terrible side and we failed, as we’ve failed to do throughout the season.

Auntie’s baws - we beat St Johnstone and we’re still in with a shout of 4th, which most people would pretty much acknowledge as being acceptable and would - even grudgingly - give him the benefit of the doubt.

I hesitate to use the “fine margins” phrase but it really does come down to fine margins at this stage in the season. Saturday was abject, it all but confirms failure this season and the goodwill of pretty much everyone who was giving him the benefit of the doubt has run out.

I would really regard the folk I’ve spoken to as the headbanger element either.

I think this is the most accurate and measured post I've seen on the shifts in mindset.

[hibsbollah]

There must be 4 or 5 now in favour of keeping NM, I don't think that's enough to save him.

a) in the whole world?
b) amongst regular match goers?
c) on here?

Id say away from the regular contributors to this discussion ,there is a MAJORITY of fans who quite sensibly understand that to sack/not to sack the manager isnt the most interesting question and isnt even all that important compared to lots of other factors within our control. I think sacking a manager is something a lot of people just call for nowadays because it makes them feel a bit better after we lose.

[Hibernian Verse]

I honestly don’t think it is a bore. Watch a high lights reel of our goals and it’s as good as it’s been for years. People may not like a controlled build up whilst we look for openings but that’s far from dull for me. It’s pretty much how most decent teams play these days. I just want him to have time.

Nolite te ********es Carborundorum.

A niche one for the Netflix watchers.

FS you can't even swear in made up Latin on here?

[JimBHibees]

I honestly don’t think it is a bore. Watch a high lights reel of our goals and it’s as good as it’s been for years. People may not like a controlled build up whilst we look for openings but that’s far from dull for me. It’s pretty much how most decent teams play these days. I just want him to have time.

Agree with that think at times the speed and accuracy of the passing could be better but some games we have controlled really well and Livi at home showed what our attacking players can do admittedly against a struggling team. The Hibs observer did an excellent tactical analysis of the Saints game and agreed with pretty much all of it including surprised Boyle starting for Youan and also the subs like Alf being taken off. It isn't perfect by any means and the criminal defending is killing us but still see enough to think a pre season clear out and replenish squad could mean much better next season. I hope whatever happens tomorrow the club come out and say he is staying for the foreseeable taking away any chat of the sack.

[JimBHibees]

How much better do you think the players we are going to sign, certainly in forward areas are going to be ? Better than Boyle, Youan, Maolida, Marcondes and ALF ? All players who’d start for the majority of the teams in the league. Even with them to choose from it’s a bore in the main watching us under Monty.

It is pretty clear areas to improve would be keeper central defence and centre mid. One or two more dynamic central midfielders with solid centre backs eg Kerr would make a significant difference.

[green day]

I honestly don’t think it is a bore. Watch a high lights reel of our goals and it’s as good as it’s been for years. People may not like a controlled build up whilst we look for openings but that’s far from dull for me. It’s pretty much how most decent teams play these days. I just want him to have time.

Fine, but the teams who execute this type of football well also make space in midfield so guys like Emi have the time to take the ball and move it on to forward players.

We have plenty of exciting forward players, but the bedrock of this style of play is footballing Centre Halfs who can actually pass a ball - and we dont have them.

Passing the ball across the back 4 is all very well if there is some end product..........but all the opposition have to do is wait for Rocky or Fish to run out of ideas and then make a poorly executed pass.

Its frustrating, and while it is maybe not boring, its too predictable.

[Keepthefaith]

Agree with that think at times the speed and accuracy of the passing could be better but some games we have controlled really well and Livi at home showed what our attacking players can do admittedly against a struggling team. The Hibs observer did an excellent tactical analysis of the Saints game and agreed with pretty much all of it including surprised Boyle starting for Youan and also the subs like Alf being taken off. It isn't perfect by any means and the criminal defending is killing us but still see enough to think a pre season clear out and replenish squad could mean much better next season. I hope whatever happens tomorrow the club come out and say he is staying for the foreseeable taking away any chat of the sack.

This is exactly where I'm at. It's not as bad as folk are saying but the results have meant there's been an attack on all aspects of Monty's approach because folk are understandably peed off wta lack of success.

Regardless of what folk say about him, individual errors and bad decisions have impacted hugely. He's made some errors too of course but which of us is always perfect in our jobs?!

Give him time, the foundations are there.

[JimBHibees]

He is unsaveable

Don't think he is unsaveable a wee bit of faith by the club and fans would help. Undoubtedly he doesn't have significant credit in the bank however personally have seen enough to think we will improve. People have gone on about he hasn't won a really big game which is true however the decisions he has got in these big games have been ridiculous from the semi final to the celtic game to Aberdeen away to the derby to the Rangers Cup game. Every single one there have been one or in some cases much more than one totally game changing decision kills us and stop us either winning or getting something. There has imo been a deliberate campaign to keep us down whether that be the Foley investment complaining about referees or shining a light on areas tradionally ignored by Scottish football I don't know but there is definitely a concerted effort to do us down. Wouldn't be surprised if the same happens tomorrow then it will be job done by the unaccountable ones.

[jakeshibs]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can vent them on this forum.

I want to keep to keep the manager and give the club so form of stabilty as the constant change of managers has not brought us any success and only inflicts financial harm for the following season and hampers our ability to purchase better player. There is no manager who can 100 percent deliver what we all want in the time frame that we want to acheive it.

Lets keep the faith GGTTH

[WhileTheChief..]

Even when I'm giving you a compliment you're no happy! :wink:

You've done the same with "I'd imagine you feel much the same way" so I'm not sure if I'm having a whoosh moment but it's early. Personally, I don't feel the same way yet but I might tomorrow.

Yeah, sorry, was trying to have a bit of fun. Apologies if you thought I was having a pop.

But generally, I think most of us are bored with NM. No evidence for it, and no mind reading skills here, just the vibe from ER.

[Unseen work]

The only hope Montgomery has of turning the support around is getting top 6 and having a really strong end to the season where we don’t roll over to the old firm etc

Unfortunately I can’t see that happening.

Top 6 won’t happen and then the support will really turn I think.

Foley will see this and think nah, no chance and get his own man in

[Brightside]

Fine, but the teams who execute this type of football well also make space in midfield so guys like Emi have the time to take the ball and move it on to forward players.

We have plenty of exciting forward players, but the bedrock of this style of play is footballing Centre Halfs who can actually pass a ball - and we dont have them.

Passing the ball across the back 4 is all very well if there is some end product..........but all the opposition have to do is wait for Rocky or Fish to run out of ideas and then make a poorly executed pass.

Its frustrating, and while it is maybe not boring, its too predictable.

I agree we need better CBs. Got to be number 1 requirement for next year.

[Hibernian Verse]

Yeah, sorry, was trying to have a bit of fun. Apologies if you thought I was having a pop.

But generally, I think most of us are bored with NM. No evidence for it, and no mind reading skills here, just the vibe from ER.

I did, then I realised I was having a mare whilst typing my second sentence.

[JimBHibees]

Out of interest Jim what do you see changing for the better and what gives you any confidence that it will ?

The style of football will clearly get better with better players. I think the concentration on a possession game is the way to play to control games and should provide a decent starting point for improving. Better players keeper centre defence centre mid do that imo. Better bench and subs also help 😃

[WhileTheChief..]

I did, then I realised I was having a mare whilst typing my second sentence.

:All good :aok:

[Winston Ingram]

Don't think he is unsaveable a wee bit of faith by the club and fans would help. Undoubtedly he doesn't have significant credit in the bank however personally have seen enough to think we will improve. People have gone on about he hasn't won a really big game which is true however the decisions he has got in these big games have been ridiculous from the semi final to the celtic game to Aberdeen away to the derby to the Rangers Cup game. Every single one there have been one or in some cases much more than one totally game changing decision kills us and stop us either winning or getting something. There has imo been a deliberate campaign to keep us down whether that be the Foley investment complaining about referees or shining a light on areas tradionally ignored by Scottish football I don't know but there is definitely a concerted effort to do us down. Wouldn't be surprised if the same happens tomorrow then it will be job done by the unaccountable ones.

It's guaranteed neither the board nor Montgomery will be getting that. Trust/faith is earned.

This board have repeatedly hired incompetents, so they're not getting any. Montgomery with his ridiculous tactics, bat**** substitutions, his inability to sort out the defence, our best players underperforming, delusional post-match interviews and rank rotten results. Having failed on pretty much every metric, he's couldn't be further away from any supporter faith and rightly so.

I get the argument that we can't keep changing but to keep him, he needs to have demonstrated something to suggest he is capable and he has done the exact opposite. His performance over nearly a full season is more than enough to demonstrate capability, and he's demonstrated that he is not very capable at all.

Though our board have been seen to be trigger happy, those managers performance after they have left done nothing to suggest the decisions were wrong.

[J-C]

I think we can all agree the defence is the biggest weakness and young Triantis was never the answer to fixing it, add in Fish being naff and a shaky Rocky, it was never ending well. I'll also add the midfield is still a big problem for me NMW gas been a real bonus but we have the vastly underperforming Levitt, the perma injured Doyle Hayes and Amos who yet to show anything of the form from 3-4 years ago. Newell is also a conundrum, he's not a proper DM, doesn't create enough to be a proper playmaker and slows the game down constantly. I'd quite happily get shot off 7-8 of this underperforming squad.