Hamas attack on Israel

[MKHIBEE]

What is the whole of the western world, people or govs. Hundreds of thousands in every major city in Europe came out to say they were in support of Palestinians this weekend. I think the vast majority don't think Palestinians are terrorists although most rightly will think Hamas are now. Oz is probably right in that more will now now what Isreal are, but the cost will be insane

As for governments they only act at the very last minute and if they have to, see Rwanda, Bosnia, Crimea. I'm sure if Putin took Kyiv in a week and put in a puppet the west will have dealt with them. It's pathetic but true, they have turned a blind eye on Palestinian genocide for decades
Basically it’s the agencies that have the ability to influence thinking on the issue, or can provide support, look at how much the U.S.A. gives in arms to Isreal. They say that those who control the media control the mind. I understand the feelings towards Hamas after their attacks but anyone who supports what the Israeli are doing now, and have been doing for 75 years, lack humanity. Isreal is an apartheid, murderous regime, it was before the Hamas attacks and is even more so now. Isreal does not care about international condemnation and is free to do as it wishes, when it wishes, because every time the UN attempt to censure them the U.S.A. vetoes any such motion.

[MKHIBEE]

I pretty much agree with all that and when it’s done Hamas will still be there.


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Im not so sure, I don’t think they will stop until Hamas is eradicated and that will also apply to any Hamas in the Occupied West Bank

[Stairway 2 7]

Im not so sure, I don’t think they will stop until Hamas is eradicated and that will also apply to any Hamas in the Occupied West Bank

I don't think you can eradicate them, the more deaths the more martyrs the more people join up. Look at the full might of the US plus 150k UK and German soldiers in Afghanistan, taliban are still currently in charge.

Afghanistan was similar in that it was instigated following a terrorist attack, dead soldiers and locals kept coming after the chest pumping beginning until everyone was exhausted

[Ozyhibby]

Im not so sure, I don’t think they will stop until Hamas is eradicated and that will also apply to any Hamas in the Occupied West Bank

I don’t think you can kill the Palestinians desire for freedom with a gun.


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[Just Alf]

I don't think you can eradicate them, the more deaths the more martyrs the more people join up. Look at the full might of the US plus 150k UK and German soldiers in Afghanistan, taliban are still currently in charge.

Afghanistan was similar in that it was instigated following a terrorist attack, dead soldiers and locals kept coming after the chest pumping beginning until everyone was exhaustedPretty much agree, there was a post earlier re the situation in the West Bank.

Where you have Palestinian families being murdered and rail roaded out of villages they've lived for generations by settlers, armed by the government for "self defence" (whilst security forces look on). Then even if Hamas IS wiped out, there will be a new round of survivors ready to take up the cause.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1716483829634912678?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

The only political party in the UK not supporting war crimes.


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[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1716483829634912678?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

The only political party in the UK not supporting war crimes.


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Sunak showing his usual lack of awareness and intelligence in any given situation, except lining his or his wife’s nest

[MKHIBEE]

I don’t think you can kill the Palestinians desire for freedom with a gun.


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You can’t, but you can kill male Palestinians who would be likely to take up a gun. Or kill the children to prevent them growing up.Or kill the women who would give birth to possible future fighters.

[Ozyhibby]

You can’t, but you can kill male Palestinians who would be likely to take up a gun. Or kill the children to prevent them growing up.Or kill the women who would give birth to possible future fighters.

Which is why I said genocide is the only military strategy that would work here.


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[MKHIBEE]

Which is why I said genocide is the only military strategy that would work here.


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I did mention earlier that I thought that would be the Israeli end game.

[Ozyhibby]

I did mention earlier that I thought that would be the Israeli end game.

I’m hopeful that while that might be the end game of the current leadership the Israeli people will be a significant break on that plan and at that point they have to look at more sensible solutions.


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[Ozyhibby]

Two more hostages being released. Hamas stalling the invasion.


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[MKHIBEE]

I’m hopeful that while that might be the end game of the current leadership the Israeli people will be a significant break on that plan and at that point they have to look at more sensible solutions.


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I think that is probably the main hope for peace, that the Israeli people get rid of Netanyahu and elect someone more conciliatory.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/stone_skynews/status/1716545195620159641?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This is good news. Biden continues to have a good presidency.


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[Pretty Boy]

The footage of the 85 year old Israeli hostage being released and shaking hands with one of the Hamas gunmen and saying shalom to him really got to me for some reason, it just seemed a moment of proper humanity in a totally mental situation.

Also interesting listening to her press conference where it sounded like, in terms relative to being captured at gun point, the hostages were treated fairly well. Food and medical care provided and a promise they wouldn't be killed.

In the grand scheme of things it's nothing but I suppose you have to take what hope you can in these situations.

[Stairway 2 7]

The footage of the 85 year old Israeli hostage being released and shaking hands with one of the Hamas gunmen and saying shalom to him really got to me for some reason, it just seemed a moment of proper humanity in a totally mental situation.

Also interesting listening to her press conference where it sounded like, in terms relative to being captured at gun point, the hostages were treated fairly well. Food and medical care provided and a promise they wouldn't be killed.

In the grand scheme of things it's nothing but I suppose you have to take what hope you can in these situations.

Sounds braw getting hit with sticks at 85
CNN
Yocheved Lif****z, who was released by Hamas on Monday, told reporters on Tuesday that she "went through hell" in Gaza

"I was kidnapped on a motorbike on my side while they were driving toward Gaza," Lifschitz said. Her daughter explained how her head lay on one side of the motorbike while her feet dangled from the other.
"It was a painful act. They brought us into a gate. I was lying on the side on the motorbike. I got bruises because of the drive,"

After being slung over the back of a motorbike and hit with sticks, Lifschitz told reporters in Tel Aviv on Tuesday that she was taken underground.
"It was very, very difficult and unpleasant," a visibly upset Lif****z added

"I went through hell. They hit me in the ribs. It made no difference to them if they kidnapped elderly people or young people. They stole jewelry and a watch from me"

Her husband is still held by Hamas

[Pretty Boy]

Sounds braw getting hit with sticks at 85
CNN
Yocheved Lif****z, who was released by Hamas on Monday, told reporters on Tuesday that she "went through hell" in Gaza

"I was kidnapped on a motorbike on my side while they were driving toward Gaza," Lifschitz said. Her daughter explained how her head lay on one side of the motorbike while her feet dangled from the other.
"It was a painful act. They brought us into a gate. I was lying on the side on the motorbike. I got bruises because of the drive,"

After being slung over the back of a motorbike and hit with sticks, Lifschitz told reporters in Tel Aviv on Tuesday that she was taken underground.
"It was very, very difficult and unpleasant," a visibly upset Lif****z added

Her husband is still held by Hamas

I did clarify clearly that I was talking in very relative terms.

[Hibrandenburg]

The footage of the 85 year old Israeli hostage being released and shaking hands with one of the Hamas gunmen and saying shalom to him really got to me for some reason, it just seemed a moment of proper humanity in a totally mental situation.

Also interesting listening to her press conference where it sounded like, in terms relative to being captured at gun point, the hostages were treated fairly well. Food and medical care provided and a promise they wouldn't be killed.

In the grand scheme of things it's nothing but I suppose you have to take what hope you can in these situations.


Sounds more like a good PR team excelling at turd polishing.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/potus/status/1716810524833313147?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

A bit of me is thinking Isreal never mounts this ground campaign.


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[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/potus/status/1716810524833313147?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

A bit of me is thinking Isreal never mounts this ground campaign.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk A “security expert” was interviewed on Al Jazeera news yesterday and he was of the opinion the Isreal would find it very difficult to beat Hamas in a guerilla warfare campaign on the ground. This is due, he reckons, to the labyrinth of underground tunnels and shelters which have been built over the last 17 years. He said they are so deep and fortified that they are virtually bomb proof against air attacks.

[Stairway 2 7]

A “security expert” was interviewed on Al Jazeera news yesterday and he was of the opinion the Isreal would find it very difficult to beat Hamas in a guerilla warfare campaign on the ground. This is due, he reckons, to the labyrinth of underground tunnels and shelters which have been built over the last 17 years. He said they are so deep and fortified that they are virtually bomb proof against air attacks.

I think this is the best article I've read on the matter a number of opinions. It'll be possible as a siege but it'll cost thousands of lives on each side. Urban attacks are about as brutal as possible to complete for the attacker.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/taking-gaza-would-be-possible-sieges-from-mosul-to-mariupol-showbut-at-a-steep-cost-45072b4b?st=u1uws8csx09sgxq&reflink=share_mobilewebshare

Taking Gaza Would Be Possible, Sieges From Mosul to Mariupol Show—but at a Steep Cost

Israel’s planned land campaign against Hamas promises to be destructive and bloody as urban warfare favors defenders

[lapsedhibee]

It'll be possible as a siege but it'll cost thousands of lives on each side. Urban attacks are about as brutal as possible to complete for the attacker.

Or as the armywallahs phrase things, 'very heavy on resources'.

[DaveF]

The Israeli govt responses to the UN are jaw dropping. Any sympathy I had following the Hamas attacks is quickly draining. They are blinded by hatred. It's horrific.

[lapsedhibee]

The Israeli govt responses to the UN are jaw dropping. Any sympathy I had following the Hamas attacks is quickly draining. They are blinded by hatred. It's horrific.

There's also been a good few Israeli army/government spokespeeps that have launched into angry rants on radio/tv because interviewers have failed to be as gung-ho as they are themselves about strikes on Gaza. Hard to tell sometimes whether they've hated the interviewers or Hamas more.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67210216?at_medium=social&at_link_id=F5724308-7294-11EE-8791-41603AE5AB7B&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_format=link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_campaign_type=owned

More than two weeks later Sarwar gets round to commenting. Hope he realises that FM is a full time gig if he gets it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67210216?at_medium=social&at_link_id=F5724308-7294-11EE-8791-41603AE5AB7B&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_format=link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_campaign_type=owned

More than two weeks later Sarwar gets round to commenting. Hope he realises that FM is a full time gig if he gets it.


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I've seen him talk about it a few times. He was another one that believed the Hamas line on the hospital bombing

[McSwanky]

Interesting thread from the NY Times

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1717015483843576248?t=nvg3I3AJ7lu9kvwqPFCjqA&s=19

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[500miles]

There's also been a good few Israeli army/government spokespeeps that have launched into angry rants on radio/tv because interviewers have failed to be as gung-ho as they are themselves about strikes on Gaza. Hard to tell sometimes whether they've hated the interviewers or Hamas more.

It does seem like for some this is an excuse to ethnically cleanse Palestine and reclaim the whole of the Holy land as part of a religious mission.

Maybe because Netenyahu leaned on these kinds of extremists for support for so many years now.

[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting thread from the NY Times

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1717015483843576248?t=nvg3I3AJ7lu9kvwqPFCjqA&s=19

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The first reply is best. An investigation that doesn't look at the blast site isn't an investigation. US, Canada, Germany, France and UK military intelligence could be wrong but they say the small crater was created by a small rocket around 5kg. Videos and audio are speculation satellite imagery is undisputed.

To be fair the thread does say it doesn't know what hit it but they should look at the crater. Hamas could just show the wreckage and end this in but they say it's the first ever missle to completely disintegrate. Just show what hit it Hamas?

[Stairway 2 7]

It does seem like for some this is an excuse to ethnically cleanse Palestine and reclaim the whole of the Holy land as part of a religious mission.

Maybe because Netenyahu leaned on these kinds of extremists for support for so many years now.

I've seen a few articles from Isrealis saying Netanyahu propped up Hamas due to him wanting to degrade PA and Abbas

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

[grunt]

https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1717137955637121084?s=20


Blimey - multiple Labour MPs telling me that a couple of shadow cabinet members are considering resigning over Keir Starmer’s handling of the Gaza situation

[Ozyhibby]

I've seen a few articles from Isrealis saying Netanyahu propped up Hamas due to him wanting to degrade PA and Abbas

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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[MKHIBEE]

Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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Isolated politically and starved of any military support would be just fine, although unlikely.

[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1717137955637121084?s=20

Quite a few councillors have already resigned. Starmer has made a pigs ear of remaining loyal to Isreal and the zionists among them

[Stairway 2 7]

Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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Support for isreal has slowly dropped over the last 15 years but I saw a poll last week that had support back up to 90s levels due to the attacks. This could be a temporary bounce though

27333

[Hibrandenburg]

Isolated politically and starved of any military support would be just fine, although unlikely.

A defenceless Israel would lead to the next holocaust, the hatred is such that there are elements amongst their neighbours that would happily see every Israeli man, woman and child have their throats slit.

[MKHIBEE]

A defenceless Israel would lead to the next holocaust, the hatred is such that there are elements amongst their neighbours that would happily see every Israeli man, woman and child have their throats slit.

There are elements among the Israeli’s who would happily see every Palestinian man woman and child have their throats slit. I would hope that the west would give the Israelis the support and help they need to avoid that scenario. Help they denied the Palestinians.

[Hibrandenburg]

There are elements among the Israeli’s who would happily see every Palestinian man woman and child have their throats slit. I would hope that the west would give the Israelis the support and help they need to avoid that scenario. Help they denied the Palestinians.

I thought you just said it would be fine to starve them of any military and political support. My mistake.

[MKHIBEE]

I thought you just said it would be fine to starve them of any military and political support. My mistake.
I did. However, that would be to neuter them as a force in the middle east. If another holocaust was on the horizon then that would require other considerations.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/treyyingst/status/1717159935237382308?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

2000 dead Palestinian children so far.


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[Hibrandenburg]

I did. However, that would be to neuter them as a force in the middle east. If another holocaust was on the horizon then that would require other considerations.

Another holocaust is on the horizon, it's only Israeli military force and external support that's stopping it.

[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/treyyingst/status/1717159935237382308?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

2000 dead Palestinian children so far.


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70% of the dead in Gaza are women or children. That is some targeting of Hamas by the Israelis.

[MKHIBEE]

Another holocaust is on the horizon, its only Israeli military force and external support that's stopping it.
I’m seeing a genocide on the horizon supported by Israeli military force and external support.

[Stairway 2 7]

70% of the dead in Gaza are women or children. That is some targeting of Hamas by the Israelis.

I know it's Hamas figures including the 500 from the hospital, but how are women and children so high. I'd thought if you randomly chucked bombs it would be less and I've seen dozens of satellite videos of destroyed Hamas infantry vehicles and a 2 what are clearly military barracks.

The destruction in Gaza will undoubtedly have cost hundreds of children's lives though. Camps with facilities need built in the south if Isreal are going to indiscriminately flatten the North

[Ozyhibby]

I know it's Hamas figures including the 500 from the hospital, but how are women and children so high. I'd thought if you randomly chucked bombs it would be less and I've seen dozens of satellite videos of destroyed Hamas infantry vehicles and a 2 what are clearly military barracks.

The destruction in Gaza will undoubtedly have cost hundreds of children's lives though. Camps with facilities need built in the south if Isreal are going to indiscriminately flatten the North

Children make up more than half the population of Gaza.


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[Hibrandenburg]

I’m seeing a genocide on the horizon supported by Israeli military force and external support.

Me too and therein lies the problem. We have 2 opposing sides sharing territory who are mortal enemies. The only solution other than genocide is a political one but both sides are so entrenched in the belief that the land is rightfully theirs, that 70 years of mediation has failed. If Israel want peace they will have to compromise and if the Palestinians want peace they will have to accept the state of Israel. None of that will happen anytime soon. Even if both sides came to agreement, outside influences would ensure it all kicks off again.

[Stairway 2 7]

Children make up more than half the population of Gaza.


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I had read that but I just read 26% are adult males. That's ridiculously poor targeting with mostly guided weapons, shocking. They need to be justifying their strikes more

[Stairway 2 7]

Was going to answer on the Labour thread but better here.

I agree that they shouldn't be carpet bombing like they are but are people saying it should be a permanent and complete ceasefire. Surely that means Hamas regroup and get away with killing over 1000 Isrealis and what's to deter them doing it again.

[MKHIBEE]

Was going to answer on the Labour thread but better here.

I agree that they shouldn't be carpet bombing like they are but are people saying it should be a permanent and complete ceasefire. Surely that means Hamas regroup and get away with killing over 1000 Isrealis and what's to deter them doing it again.
I doubt the 4000+ killed and the 16000+ injured think Hamas ” got away” with anything. Indeed, many might see it as retribution for the murder, oppression and brutality Isreal have visited upon the Palestinians over 75 years.

[MKHIBEE]

Me too and therein lies the problem. We have 2 opposing sides sharing territory who are mortal enemies. The only solution other than genocide is a political one but both sides are so entrenched in the belief that the land is rightfully theirs, that 70 years of mediation has failed. If Israel want peace they will have to compromise and if the Palestinians want peace they will have to accept the state of Israel. None of that will happen anytime soon. Even if both sides came to agreement, outside influences would ensure it all kicks off again.

A never ending circle of violence and oppression seems to be the resultant scenario

[grunt]

I agree that they shouldn't be carpet bombing like they are but are people saying it should be a permanent and complete ceasefire. Surely that means Hamas regroup and get away with killing over 1000 Isrealis and what's to deter them doing it again.
Just read the highlighted bit again and I think you'll have answered your own question.

[Ozyhibby]

Me too and therein lies the problem. We have 2 opposing sides sharing territory who are mortal enemies. The only solution other than genocide is a political one but both sides are so entrenched in the belief that the land is rightfully theirs, that 70 years of mediation has failed. If Israel want peace they will have to compromise and if the Palestinians want peace they will have to accept the state of Israel. None of that will happen anytime soon. Even if both sides came to agreement, outside influences would ensure it all kicks off again.

The PA in the West Bank would accept Isreal. It’s why Netanyahu always undermines them and builds up Hamas.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/matter-of-opinion/id1438024613?i=1000631988366

Worth a listen.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I doubt the 4000+ killed and the 16000+ injured think Hamas ” got away” with anything. Indeed, many might see it as retribution for the murder, oppression and brutality Isreal have visited upon the Palestinians over 75 years.
They won't they are the ones who suffer the retaliation which is horribly unfair and avoidable. If they see kids being shot and women raped as fair retribution then they are as warped as war can make someone

I doubt many isrealis will think its fair retribution. Infact every poll says they want Hamas destroyed completely. I would bet a majority of Scot’s would be the same if even adjusting for pops, 1000 were killed by terrorists and 100 odd were taken hostage.

Their population will only be happy when Hamas is destroyed which I think basically can't happen.

But still do the people calling for a ceasefire want a temporary one to get aid and move people or a permanent one where that is it settled

[Ozyhibby]

They won't they are the ones who suffer the retaliation which is horribly unfair and avoidable. If they see kids being shot and women raped as fair retribution then they are as warped as war can make someone

I doubt many isrealis will think its fair retribution. Infact every poll says they want Hamas destroyed completely. I would bet a majority of Scot’s would be the same if even adjusting for pops, 1000 were killed by terrorists and 100 odd were taken hostage.

Their population will only be happy when Hamas is destroyed which I think basically can't happen.

But still do the people calling for a ceasefire want a temporary one to get aid and move people or a permanent one where that is it settled

No way can you destroy Hamas militarily. The only way to destroy Hamas is to offer a better solution to the Palestinians.
Revive the two state solution but only to the West Bank. Clear out the settlements and tell Gazans that they can have that too if they get rid of Hamas.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Just read the highlighted bit again and I think you'll have answered your own question.

It doesn't. There is nuances. Obviously almost everyone the current bombing is too indiscriminate but do they agree that Isreal can destroy the terrorists. Most agreed with wiping out isis but that caused thousands of civilian deaths in capturing Mosul. Some want Ukraine to ceasefire but others say they should be able to take back their land which will cause innocent deaths although Ukraine appears to be minimising

[Stairway 2 7]

No way can you destroy Hamas militarily. The only way to destroy Hamas is to offer a better solution to the Palestinians.
Revive the two state solution but only to the West Bank. Clear out the settlements and tell Gazans that they can have that too if they get rid of Hamas.


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I personally agree completely with all of that. Both sides need to have freedom and as they have lived for generations now both deserve to exist, I think anyone that thinks differently are terrible.

I hope isreal one day get a leader that respects that, stops killing kids stops stops stealing more land.

Will not happen anytime soon. Isreal Hamas and Iran will see to that

[Hibrandenburg]

I personally agree completely with all of that. Both sides need to have freedom and as they have lived for generations now both deserve to exist, I think anyone that thinks differently are terrible.

I hope isreal one day get a leader that respects that, stops killing kids stops stops stealing more land.

Will not happen anytime soon. Isreal Hamas and Iran will see to that

It's gone beyond the point of stopping land grabs, they need to compromise and give some back. But that's never going to happen, there are too many third parties who have nothing to lose by arming and training Palestinian extremists and too many Israelis who have been given their promised land on Palestinian territory. Peace just isn't an option.

[Hibrandenburg]

Palestinians could make a start by not going on about Nakba. Once the generation who suffered that dies out/forgets the detail, which will be relatively soon now, it will make not much more sense to commemorate it than people celebrating the Battle of the Boyne. Israelis could make a start by doing something about their disgraceful oppression of Palestinians. Easy. :wink:

You Nobel Peace Prize is in the post.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231025/bc6bb7ab3632143cb503dbe44aefb8c0.jpg
Starmer working really hard here to say nothing at all.[emoji35]


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[MKHIBEE]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231025/bc6bb7ab3632143cb503dbe44aefb8c0.jpg
Starmer working really hard here to say nothing at all.[emoji35]


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The only Party preventing supplies getting in is Isreal. Remember, Keir, the one you gave unequivocal support to?

[Stairway 2 7]

Found this interesting. I thought the support for just Palestine would be higher. Perhaps due to Iran influence and Turkeys disagreements there


William Armstrong
@WJ_Armstrong
Interesting poll in Turkey on the Israel-Gaza war:

34.5% say Ankara should be neutral.
26.4% say it should mediate between the sides.
18.1% say it should support the Palestinians but be distant from Hamas.
11.3% say it should support Hamas.
3% say it should support Israel

[Stairway 2 7]

Lots of talk that Qatar led hostage negotiations have said the 200 hostages could be released if there is a full ceasefire.

Further Hamas leadership and apparatus would agree to leave Gaza for Lebanon. PLO had the same happen and it was a disaster causing war in Lebanon

https://twitter.com/KimGhattas/status/1717519469893865796

[MKHIBEE]

Lots of talk that Qatar led hostage negotiations have said the 200 hostages could be released if there is a full ceasefire.

Further Hamas leadership and apparatus would agree to leave Gaza for Lebanon. PLO had the same happen and it was a disaster causing war in Lebanon

https://twitter.com/KimGhattas/status/1717519469893865796

What comes first, the release or the ceasefire? Isreal have already said the hostages must be released first

[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1716483829634912678?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

The only political party in the UK not supporting war crimes.


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A report on how some are trying to ensure that support for the Palestinians is unseen

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/27/why-are-palestinians-supposed-to-take-it-again-and-again

[MKHIBEE]

Al Jazeera now reporting that Isreal are stopping Palestinians travelling to a mosque for prayers in the Occupied West Bank. Hardly seismic with what’s happening, just another piece of the dehumanising process of the Palestinians.

[Stairway 2 7]

A report on how some are trying to ensure that support for the Palestinians is unseen

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/27/why-are-palestinians-supposed-to-take-it-again-and-again

Although I agree with most of what he says that's about the least impartial article I've ever read 😆

[MKHIBEE]

Although I agree with most of what he says that's about the least impartial article I've ever read 😆
It doesn’t mean it’s not an accurate reflection of what’s happening. We see impartial accounts of the conflict every day in the west. I find it refreshing to hear how Palestinians see things through their eyes. The constant barrage of pro Israeli propaganda is wearing.

[Stairway 2 7]

It doesn’t mean it’s not an accurate reflection of what’s happening. We see impartial accounts of the conflict every day in the west. I find it refreshing to hear how Palestinians see things through their eyes. The constant barrage of pro Israeli propaganda is wearing.

I said I agreed with most it's just not something you would see in a paper. Isreal are baby killers and Palestine should be allowed to hit back is telling half the story, condem both for what happened he has nevermentioned the terrorism in any of his articles. He complains protests and actions around the world get unfairly labelled the "vacuous rhetorical canard, “anti-Semitism”" which is just vile imo, there is massive anti semitism rising from burning synagogues to murdered Jewish leaders. He's dismissing it.


I don't think his article helps just like any one sided article. The evidence is there for all Gaza is being flattened and kids shot by snipers. I don't know where you get your media but I think most have been pretty fair in saying Hamas were disgraceful but Isreal are now collectively punishing Gaza

[McSwanky]

I know it's a tiny thing, but are all the misspellings of Israel on this thread deliberate? Can't work out if I'm missing out on some private joke or not.

[MKHIBEE]

I said I agreed with most it's just not something you would see in a paper. Isreal are baby killers and Palestine should be allowed to hit back is telling half the story, condem both for what happened he has nevermentioned the terrorism in any of his articles. He complains protests and actions around the world get unfairly labelled the "vacuous rhetorical canard, “anti-Semitism”" which is just vile imo, there is massive anti semitism rising from burning synagogues to murdered Jewish leaders. He's dismissing it.


I don't think his article helps just like any one sided article. The evidence is there for all Gaza is being flattened and kids shot by snipers. I don't know where you get your media but I think most have been pretty fair in saying Hamas were disgraceful but Isreal are now collectively punishing Gaza


Except that’s not what they are saying. They are calling Hamas terrorists, which is fair enough, but we are still subject to the only defence they can come up with, that Isreal has the right to defend itself. Both Hamas and the Israeli regime are, imo, guilty of war crimes. Guess which side won’t face any charges. It will be the Apartheid Isreal regime. Ever hear Western media call them that? Or call the West Bank, basically Palestine, the Occupied West Bank? The Israelis who steal land and houses are called settlers, not what they are, colonisers, or perhaps thieves. There is an effort to collectively dehumanise the Palestinian population in order to give the Israeli actions credence. We hear about the call for a “ humanitarian corridor” To do what? Feed, water and treat them before continuing to slaughter them? There is no call for a ceasefire, the West is complicit in the slaughter of thousands of innocent men, women and children by their inaction. Hamas are equally as guilty but who gets the terrorist label?

[Stairway 2 7]

[/B][/I][/U]


Except that’s not what they are saying. They are calling Hamas terrorists, which is fair enough, but we are still subject to the only defence they can come up with, that Isreal has the right to defend itself. Both Hamas and the Israeli regime are, imo, guilty of war crimes. Guess which side won’t face any charges. It will be the Apartheid Isreal regime. Ever hear Western media call them that? Or call the West Bank, basically Palestine, the Occupied West Bank? The Israelis who steal land and houses are called settlers, not what they are, colonisers, or perhaps thieves. There is an effort to collectively dehumanise the Palestinian population in order to give the Israeli actions credence. We hear about the call for a “ humanitarian corridor” To do what? Feed, water and treat them before continuing to slaughter them? There is no call for a ceasefire, the West is complicit in the slaughter of thousands of innocent men, women and children by their inaction. Hamas are equally as guilty but who gets the terrorist label?

You need to read different media if that's all your getting. Twitter is awful if your not careful but you can choose what you read. Follow bellingcat, skwakbox, bywire, guardian, the I, the mirror. I think that in general the wests reporting has been pretty fair and pro Palestinian public

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/the-rules-war-must-followed-31281785

With UNICEF reporting 2,360 children have been killed in less than three weeks in Gaza, the Israeli bombardment is a merciless slaughter of innocents.

Hamas murdering 1,400 Israelis in the October 7 pogrom was a barbarous war crime but this mass killing of Palestinians is a grotesque abuse of international law. Israel has an absolute right to defend itself yet the rules of war must also be followed. It is not happening in Gaza where ordinary people are being denied food, water, medical care and power as bombs and missiles fall.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/israel-west-moralism-hypocrisy-veto/
Israel’s bombing of Gaza undercuts the West’s Ukraine moralism

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2023/oct/18/uk-politicians-israel-hamas-war-tory-labour-israeli-crimes
Tory and Labour reluctance to criticise the Israeli government could make our leaders complicit in war crimes – the public needs to speak out

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/21/opinion/israel-gaza-palestine-children.html
We Must Not Kill Gazan Children to Try to Protect Israel’s Children

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-crimes-icc-1a42212b95a7f6ce54909fb22e0d681d
Experts say Hamas and Israel are committing war crimes in their fight

[Stairway 2 7]

Anas Sarwar and Sadiq Khan both call for a ceasefire

https://twitter.com/AnasSarwar/status/1717876719166672938

[MKHIBEE]

You need to read different media if that's all your getting. Twitter is awful if your not careful but you can choose what you read. Follow bellingcat, skwakbox, bywire, guardian, the I, the mirror. I think that in general the wests reporting has been pretty fair and pro Palestinian public

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/the-rules-war-must-followed-31281785

With UNICEF reporting 2,360 children have been killed in less than three weeks in Gaza, the Israeli bombardment is a merciless slaughter of innocents.

Hamas murdering 1,400 Israelis in the October 7 pogrom was a barbarous war crime but this mass killing of Palestinians is a grotesque abuse of international law. Israel has an absolute right to defend itself yet the rules of war must also be followed. It is not happening in Gaza where ordinary people are being denied food, water, medical care and power as bombs and missiles fall.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/israel-west-moralism-hypocrisy-veto/
Israel’s bombing of Gaza undercuts the West’s Ukraine moralism

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2023/oct/18/uk-politicians-israel-hamas-war-tory-labour-israeli-crimes
Tory and Labour reluctance to criticise the Israeli government could make our leaders complicit in war crimes – the public needs to speak out

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/21/opinion/israel-gaza-palestine-children.html
We Must Not Kill Gazan Children to Try to Protect Israel’s Children

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-crimes-icc-1a42212b95a7f6ce54909fb22e0d681d
Experts say Hamas and Israel are committing war crimes in their fight

Thank you for telling me what I need to read. It’s not a question of what I am getting from the the media, more of a question of that which is being omitted from the mainstream, as r mentioned in my earlier post. As for getting my information from twitter, do me a favour, it’s a cesspit which is why I left over 3 months ago.

[Stairway 2 7]

Thank you for telling me what I need to read. It’s not a question of what I am getting from the the media, more of a question of that which is being omitted from the mainstream, as r mentioned in my earlier post. As for getting my information from twitter, do me a favour, it’s a cesspit which is why I left over 3 months ago.

I just put up links to the mainstream condemning and saying isreal is committing war crimes. They are so it's fair enough

Twitter only a cesspit if you read the for you tab. On following you can follow like 5 people and just get whatever they post, you literally only see what you choose to follow. I think it's really easy to not see the right wing bile and disinformation. All I follow are some journalists I like and a few music, history and sports pages.

[tamig]

I know it's a tiny thing, but are all the misspellings of Israel on this thread deliberate? Can't work out if I'm missing out on some private joke or not.

I’m glad someone else asked that as its been bugging me for weeks. Still no answer though.

[One Day Soon]

That Hamas guying running out of the interview when confronted with the facts on murder, torture, kidnapping etc. What ****ing planet?

This is a mess. It's going to get a lot worse before it carries on getting a lot worse and then perhaps eventually falls into an exhausted state of hostility ie what it was just before the Hamas attack.

I literally cannot see any coherent way forward here. Unless Hamas leave Gaza Israel is rightly going to carry on going after them. Good, they need removing. But if this continues to be done in Gaza rather than elsewhere then innocent people are going to carry on being killed in large numbers. So how does this get moved on in any way that is sane?

There is a military response to be delivered here certainly, but there can only be a political solution.

What can Palestinians do to end this? Nothing that I can think of short of kicking out Hamas, which they can't do because Hamas run Gaza. And anyway the senior Hamas figures are holed up in Qatar. And kicking out Hamas doesn't equal getting a settlement.

What can Israel do to end this? Nothing that I can think of short of declaring a ceasefire and accepting the massacres perpetrated by Hamas, which they can't do because it won't be accepted domestically, it would embolden Hamas (and other similar groups) and it would encourage others in the region - principally Iran - to believe Israel is weak and unwilling to defend itself.

I suppose it would be theoretically possible for an Israeli leader to perform a massive 'turn the other cheek' and reach out for peace and a settlement. But who would they even speak to on the other side? What is the Palestinian voice and who embodies it?

I think the best outcome we get here is weeks, probably months, of IDF actions against Hamas wherever it think it can find them. Continued indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israel. Eventual war exhaustion among both ordinary Palestinians and Israelis. Netanyahu dumped in the next elections, if not before (I certainly think he's toast anyway). The Israel/Saudi accord forced through somehow. Then the longer game of hoping it isn't Trump, that Putin falls and that the Mullahs get their ***** kicked by the Iranian population. That's a pretty rose tinted view of it in my opinion.

I would say that Iran is playing a very, very dangerous game here and a reckless one. I'd imagine that a number of intelligence agencies will be working overtime to try and make sure they don't become a nuclear power.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/humzayousaf/status/1717918026161426902?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/humzayousaf/status/1717918026161426902?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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I dont understand why a ceasefire is needed for humanitarian aid going in. Why should that stop them from sending in aid in to the country.

Does a ceasefire not allow Hamas time to regroup and sort there logistics. It should be a given that essential aid is allowed in.

The Israelis will never accept a ceasefire the public wouldn't allow it

[Stairway 2 7]

That Hamas guying running out of the interview when confronted with the facts on murder, torture, kidnapping etc. What ****ing planet?

This is a mess. It's going to get a lot worse before it carries on getting a lot worse and then perhaps eventually falls into an exhausted state of hostility ie what it was just before the Hamas attack.

I literally cannot see any coherent way forward here. Unless Hamas leave Gaza Israel is rightly going to carry on going after them. Good, they need removing. But if this continues to be done in Gaza rather than elsewhere then innocent people are going to carry on being killed in large numbers. So how does this get moved on in any way that is sane?

There is a military response to be delivered here certainly, but there can only be a political solution.

What can Palestinians do to end this? Nothing that I can think of short of kicking out Hamas, which they can't do because Hamas run Gaza. And anyway the senior Hamas figures are holed up in Qatar. And kicking out Hamas doesn't equal getting a settlement.

What can Israel do to end this? Nothing that I can think of short of declaring a ceasefire and accepting the massacres perpetrated by Hamas, which they can't do because it won't be accepted domestically, it would embolden Hamas (and other similar groups) and it would encourage others in the region - principally Iran - to believe Israel is weak and unwilling to defend itself.

I suppose it would be theoretically possible for an Israeli leader to perform a massive 'turn the other cheek' and reach out for peace and a settlement. But who would they even speak to on the other side? What is the Palestinian voice and who embodies it?

I think the best outcome we get here is weeks, probably months, of IDF actions against Hamas wherever it think it can find them. Continued indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israel. Eventual war exhaustion among both ordinary Palestinians and Israelis. Netanyahu dumped in the next elections, if not before (I certainly think he's toast anyway). The Israel/Saudi accord forced through somehow. Then the longer game of hoping it isn't Trump, that Putin falls and that the Mullahs get their ***** kicked by the Iranian population. That's a pretty rose tinted view of it in my opinion.

I would say that Iran is playing a very, very dangerous game here and a reckless one. I'd imagine that a number of intelligence agencies will be working overtime to try and make sure they don't become a nuclear power.

Agree with all of that

[tamig]

I dont understand why a ceasefire is needed for humanitarian aid going in. Why should that stop them from sending in aid in to the country.

Does a ceasefire not allow Hamas time to regroup and sort there logistics. It should be a given that essential aid is allowed in.

The Israelis will never accept a ceasefire the public wouldn't allow it
More than half the Israeli population now against the current approach being taken by their government. On that basis, what “public” won’t “allow” it? How will they achieve that?

[stokesmessiah]

Looks like we might be at the beginning of the ground invasion?

[Stairway 2 7]

More than half the Israeli population now against the current approach being taken by their government. On that basis, what “public” won’t “allow” it? How will they achieve that?

Two polls of 1k people this week say they want retribution, not huge polls

"When asked the question what should be Israel’s primary objective?”, 70% of the public answered to “eliminate Hamas”, 15% answered to “secure the unconditional release of captives held by Hamas”,


"When poll respondents were given the option of launching a ground operation in Gaza to eradicate Hamas or avoiding a ground operation and finding another way to deal with Hamas, 68% chose the former and 25% the latter solution"

A lot a running with a third poll that say 49% believe in holding off a ground invasion just now, 29% wanting a ground offensive now 22% undecided. But it's only 500 people that's why the same poll last week had 65% saying invasion now, the kind of swing you get with 500 people.

Another poll said the majority do not trust the government to deal with the problem which I think is the one your talking about, but that is more about Netanyahu

Even if against starting a ground invasion which is obviously different, I've not seen a poll that says they don't want retaliation or hamas destroyed or a ceasefire?

As for how they achieve it I suppose they will hope to mirror the destruction of isis. It was a semi state at one point held a third of Syria and 40% of Iraq. A coalition bombed all weapons and logistics hubs, all military vehicles, bombed a good part of the hierarchy, they retook Mosul and Raqqa the two main cities in a ground offensive. Isis lost 95% of its land in one year and then were basically destroyed

[stokesmessiah]

Honestly feel sick looking at the news this morning…then you have that absolute twonk Cleverley saying calls for a ceasefire won’t help the situation. I am disgusted by the elected officials in this country from both sides.

[Ozyhibby]

Two polls of 1k people this week say they want retribution, not huge polls

"When asked the question what should be Israel’s primary objective?”, 70% of the public answered to “eliminate Hamas”, 15% answered to “secure the unconditional release of captives held by Hamas”,


"When poll respondents were given the option of launching a ground operation in Gaza to eradicate Hamas or avoiding a ground operation and finding another way to deal with Hamas, 68% chose the former and 25% the latter solution"

A lot a running with a third poll that say 49% believe in holding off a ground invasion just now, 29% wanting a ground offensive now 22% undecided. But it's only 500 people that's why the same poll last week had 65% saying invasion now, the kind of swing you get with 500 people.

Another poll said the majority do not trust the government to deal with the problem which I think is the one your talking about, but that is more about Netanyahu

Even if against starting a ground invasion which is obviously different, I've not seen a poll that says they don't want retaliation or hamas destroyed or a ceasefire?

As for how they achieve it I suppose they will hope to mirror the destruction of isis. It was a semi state at one point held a third of Syria and 40% of Iraq. A coalition bombed all weapons and logistics hubs, all military vehicles, bombed a good part of the hierarchy, they retook Mosul and Raqqa the two main cities in a ground offensive. Isis lost 95% of its land in one year and then were basically destroyed

Now that it has begun, we can only hope they achieve their objective quickly and as few people as possible die.
What comes after is up to Isreal then. I’m not hopeful.


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[grunt]

I dont understand why a ceasefire is needed for humanitarian aid going in. Why should that stop them from sending in aid in to the country.
Would you like to drive an aid truck into a country that's being carpet bombed?

[Stairway 2 7]

Would you like to drive an aid truck into a country that's being carpet bombed?

There's been 25 trucks go through this week. What has held them back is the borders being closed not agencies willing to take them over the border.

[MKHIBEE]

Would you like to drive an aid truck into a country that's being carpet bombed?
Or targeted

[MKHIBEE]

Would you like to drive an aid truck into a country that's being carpet bombed?
Or targeted

[Stairway 2 7]

I think people are putting up posters and sitting with there phone waiting for them to be ripped. No doubt your an idiot for ripping them but entrapment maybe. New Yorkers don't seem happy mind

https://twitter.com/nyscanner/status/1717935965472199062

[Stairway 2 7]

Chris law was forced from the microphone for saying he has sympathy for both sides and that he backs a two state future. Harsh as he's been very pro Palestine and has called for a ceasefire and hit out at Israel

https://twitter.com/heckle_scot/status/1718320455700857310

[Keith_M]

Chris law was forced from the microphone for saying he has sympathy for both sides and that he backs a two state future. Harsh as he's been very pro Palestine and has called for a ceasefire and hit out at Israel

https://twitter.com/heckle_scot/status/1718320455700857310


That's the problem when extremists are involved. They don't to want hear reasoned arguments.

[Callum_62]

That's the problem when extremists are involved. They don't to want hear reasoned arguments.Speaking of extremists

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-conservative-mp-paul-bristow-sacked-from-government-post-after-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire-12996701

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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/raggedtp/status/1719033418330071141?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Just Alf]

https://x.com/raggedtp/status/1719033418330071141?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat is horrendous and unfortunately happening all over.

[Stairway 2 7]

Talks are apparently taking place again today in Qatar, hopefully some good comes from them.

Egyptian PM again says he will refuse any refugees even with Israeli pressure as has been suggested. Taking refugees in is a red line he says.

[Ozyhibby]

Talks are apparently taking place again today in Qatar, hopefully some good comes from them.

Egyptian PM again says he will refuse any refugees even with Israeli pressure as has been suggested. Taking refugees in is a red line he says.

There are understandable reasons to not take refugees in this situation when forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine is the goal.


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[Stairway 2 7]

There are understandable reasons to not take refugees in this situation when forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine is the goal.


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He said along the lines of he doesn't want terrorism coming to his land after defeating it in the Sinai. Government official said on taking 1 million refugees “Well, I am going to send them to Europe. You care about human rights so much – well, you take them.”

I think he's right Europe should take the burden especially, if the EU nations agree Israel has the right to destroy Hamas, refugees are the consequence of that course

[Ozyhibby]

He said along the lines of he doesn't want terrorism coming to his land after defeating it in the Sinai. Government official said on taking 1 million refugees “Well, I am going to send them to Europe. You care about human rights so much – well, you take them.”

I think he's right Europe should take the burden especially, if the EU nations agree Israel has the right to destroy Hamas, refugees are the consequence of that course

Europe maybe should have taken the burden of finding a homeland in Europe for the Jews in the first place. Make no mistake though, the Egyptians hate the Palestinians as much as the Israelis. The people of Gaza have nowhere to go.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Europe maybe should have taken the burden of finding a homeland in Europe for the Jews in the first place. Make no mistake though, the Egyptians hate the Palestinians as much as the Israelis. The people of Gaza have nowhere to go.


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About 100 years too late for that. Every right minded person agrees that both Israel and Palestine deserve a free country in that land. Israel should be condemned and sanctioned like Russia if they keep stealing more land though, it obviously won't happen.

[Stairway 2 7]

Iran backed Houthis announce full war on Israel, just what we need

[DaveF]

Iran backed Houthis announce full war on Israel, just what we need

What does this mean in real terms though? Yemen is miles away from Israel so how does Iran leverage them in any way?

[MKHIBEE]

Iran backed Houthis announce full war on Israel, just what we need


Where is this covered?

[Stairway 2 7]

What does this mean in real terms though? Yemen is miles away from Israel so how does Iran leverage them in any way?

Iran completely supplies their army. A drone was just shot down in Israel fired from Yemen. Russia has shown what damage Iranian drones can do

[MKHIBEE]

About 100 years too late for that. Every right minded person agrees that both Israel and Palestine deserve a free country in that land. Israel should be condemned and sanctioned like Russia if they keep stealing more land though, it obviously won't happen.

Isreal should have been sanctioned years ago, as you say, it’s not going to happen anytime

[Stairway 2 7]

Where is this covered?

Yemens armed forces spokesman long post, but to be honest their official moto has in it "death to America, death to Israel", so its not big news ha

https://twitter.com/army21ye/status/1719340968812425410

In the name of God, the most gracious, the most merciful
God Almighty said (( There is no aggression except against the wrongdoers ))

"We targeted enemy (Israel) positions with ballistic missiles and drones... This is third operation in support of our brothers in #Palestine...We will continue to carry out more qualitative strikes with missiles & drones until #Israeli aggression stops"

[Stairway 2 7]

The absolute destruction of Jabalia, targeted I don't ******g think so

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1719373987010982225

[DaveF]

The absolute destruction of Jabalia, targeted I don't ******g think so

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1719373987010982225

Murder of civilians supported by Sunak and Starmer.

[Hibs4185]

Might get slaughtered for this because it’s Piers Morgan but I saw a video of him interviewing a guy who is the son of one of the founders of Hamas.

He resigned from Hamas after seeing what they were doing to Palestine.

He reckons the Palestinians will be out on the streets celebrating it Hamas leaves power.

[MKHIBEE]

Murder of civilians supported by Sunak and Starmer.

Supported and encouraged. Shameful.

[Just Alf]

Might get slaughtered for this because it’s Piers Morgan but I saw a video of him interviewing a guy who is the son of one of the founders of Hamas.

He resigned from Hamas after seeing what they were doing to Palestine.

He reckons the Palestinians will be out on the streets celebrating it Hamas leaves power.Doesn't surprise me to be honest, seen lots of interviews over the years where ordinary Palestinians say they want rid of Hamas once it became clear what their priorities actually were.... only one lot have guns though.

[Ozyhibby]

Might get slaughtered for this because it’s Piers Morgan but I saw a video of him interviewing a guy who is the son of one of the founders of Hamas.

He resigned from Hamas after seeing what they were doing to Palestine.

He reckons the Palestinians will be out on the streets celebrating it Hamas leaves power.

They absolutely would be, I’m sure of it.


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[Kato]

They absolutely would be, I’m sure of it.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf there are any streets left to be out in.

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[MKHIBEE]

If there are any streets left to be out in.

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Or people to go into them

[Ozyhibby]

Or people to go into them

Hamas will still be there, they are safe in the bunkers.[emoji849]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/yasmeenserhan/status/1719374204980662649?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This could be crucial next year.


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[DaveF]

https://x.com/yasmeenserhan/status/1719374204980662649?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This could be crucial next year.


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I'm assuming they are not going to vote at all as Trump would even more in the Israeli camp than Biden.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm assuming they are not going to vote at all as Trump would even more in the Israeli camp than Biden.

I assume so but that would be a problem for Biden. Places like Michigan were close and have lots of Muslims.


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[Hibs4185]

Piers Morgan interview for anyone interested

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B8YYmrgAeqw&pp=ygUMcGllcnMgbW9yZ2Fu

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/liverpool-street-station-protest-palestine-b2439299.html


One way of getting attention

[Stairway 2 7]

Bellingcat do some confirmation on the appalling strikes on Jabalia Refugee Camp

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1719438310358000068

[Stairway 2 7]

Egypt today are letting people with foreign passports through the border but they have to leave directly the country of passport.

They have also brought in a full tank devision to protect themselves from refugees a government Spokesperson said Egypt is “prepared to sacrifice millions of lives to ensure that no one encroaches upon our territory”

The poor people of Gaza really have nowhere to go from the bombing

[Stairway 2 7]

Hamas spokesman says there will be more October 7ths and they will not stop until Israel is wiped out and Palestine returned. Why are both sides ran by evil monsters. Unless the government's on both sides are removed there can be no peace

https://twitter.com/arash_tehran/status/1719689762724839600

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/jordanuhl/status/1719491024450654573?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

https://x.com/middleeasteye/status/1719489426965811219?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

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[Keith_M]

Hamas spokesman says there will be more October 7ths and they will not stop until Israel is wiped out and Palestine returned. Why are both sides ran by evil monsters. Unless the government's on both sides are removed there can be no peace

https://twitter.com/arash_tehran/status/1719689762724839600


Sad but true.

[Hibs4185]

Hamas spokesman says there will be more October 7ths and they will not stop until Israel is wiped out and Palestine returned. Why are both sides ran by evil monsters. Unless the government's on both sides are removed there can be no peace

https://twitter.com/arash_tehran/status/1719689762724839600

True but the people of Palestine can’t get rid of Hamas and Israel can’t get rid of Hamas no matter how much they destroy Gaza and kill civilians.

Hamas haven’t held elections since 2006ish so I think getting rid of them is the key to it but it’s never ending cycle.

[Bristolhibby]

I'm assuming they are not going to vote at all as Trump would even more in the Israeli camp than Biden.

Yip, if you don’t like Biden, wait till you see what Trump wants.

His “peace” plan is basically just the Israelis plan. Cementing in the settlers, no discussion on return of territory moving the Palestine capital out of East Jerusalem.

Fantasy to think they would switch to Trump, but Biden does need to get them out to vote. Surely the threat of Trump should be enough?!?

J

[Just Alf]

Yip, if you don’t like Biden, wait till you see what Trump wants.

His “peace” plan is basically just the Israelis plan. Cementing in the settlers, no discussion on return of territory moving the Palestine capital out of East Jerusalem.

Fantasy to think they would switch to Trump, but Biden does need to get them out to vote. Surely the threat of Trump should be enough?!?

JMore of this then?


https://x.com/raggedtp/status/1719033418330071141?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/qudsnen/status/1719745919011213714?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[DaveF]

https://x.com/qudsnen/status/1719745919011213714?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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What's the difference between this lot and the Nazis?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/02/ireland-criticism-israel-eu-palestinian-rights?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1698925545


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[MKHIBEE]

What's the difference between this lot and the Nazis?
That’s a good question, there are certainly similarities in their behaviour.

[greenginger]

What's the difference between this lot and the Nazis?

Has evidence of slave Labour camps and gas chambers been uncovered ?

[Stairway 2 7]

That’s a good question, there are certainly similarities in their behaviour.

Similarities but a world of difference also. We shouldn't just bring up Nazi Germany all the time. It downplays millions killed in an industrial scale and also let's people deflect from the slaughter Israel is doing, as no its not the Nazis but its evil

[DaveF]

Has evidence of slave Labour camps and gas chambers been uncovered ?

You know fine well what I mean. The clips of street beatings in nazi Germany are no different to that.

[JimBHibees]

What's the difference between this lot and the Nazis?

Certainly parallels

[cabbageandribs1875]

not surprised in the slightest by Lammy

David Lammy: Labour figure slammed for refugee camp bombing comments | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23893849.david-lammy-labour-figure-slammed-refugee-camp-bombing-comments/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR3IC2InEoTK9Sd2BxTACGAHGTeyhYn2PyOUFhvc-017bRnykC5HEY21J0w)

SHADOW foreign secretary David Lammy has been slammed after he told the BBC that an Israeli airstrike on a refugee camp “can be legally justified” (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23893590.david-lammy-israeli-strike-refugee-camp-can-legally-justified/).

It comes after Israel said the strike killed a senior Hamas commander, although it is understood there were more than 50 civilian casualties (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23892468.explosion-gaza-refugee-camp-kills-least-50/).

The shadow foreign secretary said the bombing was wrong "when it comes to the ethics," but insisted that "if there is a military objective it can be legally justifiable".

In response to Lammy’s comments, the Muslim Association of Britain said the senior Labour (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/labour/) figure should be “ashamed” of himself.

[MKHIBEE]

Similarities but a world of difference also. We shouldn't just bring up Nazi Germany all the time. It downplays millions killed in an industrial scale and also let's people deflect from the slaughter Israel is doing, as no its not the Nazis but its evil

We don’t

[JimBHibees]

not surprised in the slightest by Lammy

David Lammy: Labour figure slammed for refugee camp bombing comments | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23893849.david-lammy-labour-figure-slammed-refugee-camp-bombing-comments/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR3IC2InEoTK9Sd2BxTACGAHGTeyhYn2PyOUFhvc-017bRnykC5HEY21J0w)

SHADOW foreign secretary David Lammy has been slammed after he told the BBC that an Israeli airstrike on a refugee camp “can be legally justified” (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23893590.david-lammy-israeli-strike-refugee-camp-can-legally-justified/).

It comes after Israel said the strike killed a senior Hamas commander, although it is understood there were more than 50 civilian casualties (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23892468.explosion-gaza-refugee-camp-kills-least-50/).

The shadow foreign secretary said the bombing was wrong "when it comes to the ethics," but insisted that "if there is a military objective it can be legally justifiable".

In response to Lammy’s comments, the Muslim Association of Britain said the senior Labour (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/labour/) figure should be “ashamed” of himself.



Wow

[marinello59]

not surprised in the slightest by Lammy

David Lammy: Labour figure slammed for refugee camp bombing comments | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23893849.david-lammy-labour-figure-slammed-refugee-camp-bombing-comments/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR3IC2InEoTK9Sd2BxTACGAHGTeyhYn2PyOUFhvc-017bRnykC5HEY21J0w)

SHADOW foreign secretary David Lammy has been slammed after he told the BBC that an Israeli airstrike on a refugee camp “can be legally justified” (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23893590.david-lammy-israeli-strike-refugee-camp-can-legally-justified/).

It comes after Israel said the strike killed a senior Hamas commander, although it is understood there were more than 50 civilian casualties (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23892468.explosion-gaza-refugee-camp-kills-least-50/).

The shadow foreign secretary said the bombing was wrong "when it comes to the ethics," but insisted that "if there is a military objective it can be legally justifiable".

In response to Lammy’s comments, the Muslim Association of Britain said the senior Labour (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/labour/) figure should be “ashamed” of himself.



Good grief. There are no words.

[Stairway 2 7]

We don’t

Often like when police are brutal as in the clip. Chinese police battered anti covid protesters, the Met battered women protesting Sarah Everard murder, probably a closer comparison in the video than to this Nazis slaughter of millions.

[DaveF]

Often like when police are brutal as in the clip. Chinese police battered anti covid protesters, the Met battered women protesting Sarah Everard murder, probably a closer comparison in the video than to this Nazis slaughter of millions.

There is no protest going on in this clip. It's just people being beaten up because the authorities don't like something. I'd suggest that has got more similarities to 1930s Germany than the Met and protests.

[JimBHibees]

Often like when police are brutal as in the clip. Chinese police battered anti covid protesters, the Met battered women protesting Sarah Everard murder, probably a closer comparison in the video than to this Nazis slaughter of millions.

Not when you take into account the Israeli government treatment, subjugation and murder of many Palestinians for years

[Stairway 2 7]

Not when you take into account the Israeli government treatment, subjugation and murder of many Palestinians for years

Isreals disgusting treatment is similar to other genocides UK in Iraq, Serbia in Bosnia or Russia in Syria. Nazis was a industrial slaughter straight from train to gas chamber. I think it does a disservice to it comparing every bit of police brutality or slaughter to it.

Hardly a big deal, in the end its clear the IDF an Israeli government are ****

[MKHIBEE]

Often like when police are brutal as in the clip. Chinese police battered anti covid protesters, the Met battered women protesting Sarah Everard murder, probably a closer comparison in the video than to this Nazis slaughter of millions.
So often = all the time? There is more to Nazism than simply beating people up.

[Stairway 2 7]

Reading that the IDF have split Gaza in two and have completely surrounded Gaza city. Not really sure what this means for the war but it doesn't seem good at all for a humanitarian corridor, not that Israel seems remotely interested in that anyway

[Ozyhibby]

Reading that the IDF have split Gaza in two and have completely surrounded Gaza city. Not really sure what this means for the war but it doesn't seem good at all for a humanitarian corridor, not that Israel seems remotely interested in that anyway

I think this is madness and there can’t be a military solution to this problem but I am now hoping they can achieve some sort of success soon that they can call a win and then pull out. If the actually manage to deal a massive blow to Hamas then so much the better. Just hope it’s over soon.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Germany has been the greatest supporter of Israel as the vice chancellor says Israels defence Germany's raison d'etre. He's released a video condemning Muslim groups in Germany for not distancing themselves from Hamas enough, says pro Palestinian demonstration and marches will stay banned, anyone caught praising Hamas or being anti semitic can lose their German citizenship if they have acquired it or lose the right to live in Germany.


Further the leader of the CDU the favorites for the next election wants all new citizens to pledge to the security of Israel to become a citizen.
https://www.exberliner.com/english-news-berlin/cdu-friedrich-merz-citizenship-new-german-immigrants-to-recognise-israel/

A terrible stance on demonstration, but perhaps at least understandable in a nation dealing with the past, usually very well imo

[Stairway 2 7]

I think this is madness and there can’t be a military solution to this problem but I am now hoping they can achieve some sort of success soon that they can call a win and then pull out. If the actually manage to deal a massive blow to Hamas then so much the better. Just hope it’s over soon.


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Hopefully soldiers on the ground might at least stop some of the indiscriminate bombing.

I never realised just how muny of Hamas leadership were being housed and dinned in Qatar. They didn't advertise that during their World Cup

[Hibrandenburg]

Germany has been the greatest supporter of Israel as the vice chancellor says Israels defence Germany's raison d'etre. He's released a video condemning Muslim groups in Germany for not distancing themselves from Hamas enough, says pro Palestinian demonstration and marches will stay banned, anyone caught praising Hamas or being anti semitic can lose their German citizenship if they have acquired it or lose the right to live in Germany.


Further the leader of the CDU the favorites for the next election wants all new citizens to pledge to the security of Israel to become a citizen.
https://www.exberliner.com/english-news-berlin/cdu-friedrich-merz-citizenship-new-german-immigrants-to-recognise-israel/

A terrible stance on demonstration, but perhaps at least understandable in a nation dealing with the past, usually very well imo

The Jewish community have been victims of rising antisemitism in Germany for the last couple of years. Around 80% of the recorded 2600+ penal acts inflicted on the Jewish community last year came from the extreme right. There's no way the CDU would demand that immigrants pledge security to Israel, they're trying to win back voters from the far right and such a move would just see them bleed even more voters to the AfD.

Since the Hamas attacks on Israel and the Israeli response, the Jewish community are now coming under attack from left wing extremists too. The German government have reacted in a balanced and fair manner imo, they have announced that any German citizens involved in antisemitism will find themselves in court and any non Germans might find they are no longer welcome in Germany. They now just need to turn those words into actions.

[Ozyhibby]

Hopefully soldiers on the ground might at least stop some of the indiscriminate bombing.

I never realised just how muny of Hamas leadership were being housed and dinned in Qatar. They didn't advertise that during their World Cup

The Americans were the ones who set that up, amazingly. Qatar is a state sponsor of terrorism though and has been for too leniently dealt with for years.


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[JimBHibees]

Isreals disgusting treatment is similar to other genocides UK in Iraq, Serbia in Bosnia or Russia in Syria. Nazis was a industrial slaughter straight from train to gas chamber. I think it does a disservice to it comparing every bit of police brutality or slaughter to it.

Hardly a big deal, in the end its clear the IDF an Israeli government are ****

The ultimate irony is that it is a Jewish state acting in this way.

[Stairway 2 7]

The ultimate irony is that it is a Jewish state acting in this way.

Horrible that a nation helped be due to a genocide against them can spend the following hundred years committing genocide

"For your benefit, learn from our tragedy. It is not a written law that the next victims must be Jews. It can also be other people. We saw it begin in Germany with Jews, but people from more than twenty other nations were also murdered." — Simon Wiesenthal

[JimBHibees]

Horrible that a nation helped be due to a genocide against them can spend the following hundred years committing genocide

"For your benefit, learn from our tragedy. It is not a written law that the next victims must be Jews. It can also be other people. We saw it begin in Germany with Jews, but people from more than twenty other nations were also murdered." — Simon Wiesenthal

Agree. Great quote from Simon.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Once this war between Israel and Hamas is over, a deeper conflict looms | Jonathan Freedland | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/03/war-israel-hamas-conflict-peace-extremists)


Senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad told Lebanese TV (https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199) that his organisation was determined to repeat the massacre of 7 October, when the men of Hamas murdered some 1,400 Israelis, most of them civilians, torturing and maiming their victims in ways too cruel to recount (https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1719419431586070752). Hamad promised that 7 October was “just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth”. He was asked if Hamas was bent on Israel’s annihilation. “Yes, of course,” he replied.

well there's a green light for Israel

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/yonahlieberman/status/1720816170792562947?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good from Obama. Shame he was so disengaged on foreign policy his whole presidency.


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[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/yonahlieberman/status/1720816170792562947omments?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A (https://x.com/yonahlieberman/status/1720816170792562947?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A)

Good from Obama. Shame he was so disengaged on foreign policy his whole presidency.


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No doubt he will get hammered for his comments.

[Bristolhibby]

The Americans were the ones who set that up, amazingly. Qatar is a state sponsor of terrorism though and has been for too leniently dealt with for years.


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TBF having a back door to Hamas is critical in bringing some sort of peace to the region.

This cannot be solved by military action. Diplomacy and talking is the only way. For that you need an in to Hamas. This provides that.

J

[Hibs4185]

It seems all the Hamas leadership are worth a bit of money and live in Qatar etc.

That’s real solidarity with their people

[Lendo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67327079

This story is absolutely wild and I really don’t know what to make of it.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67327079

This story is absolutely wild and I really don’t know what to make of it.

That’s been common practice for the IDF for years.
It explains why the death toll seems low (a horrific 10,000) so far compared to the level of devastation.


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[Hibs4185]

That’s been common practice for the IDF for years.
It explains why the death toll seems low (a horrific 10,000) so far compared to the level of devastation.


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I read a story today where Israel is attacking a hospital in Gaza City. There used drones and other intelligence to verify there are no civilians in the hospital but there is 100 hundred Hamas fighters in there. The journalists can see rockets and gunfire coming from the hospital but Israel won’t flatten it because it would give Hamas and pro-Palestinians propaganda to say another hospital has been flattened.

It’s obviously absolutely brutal for the Palestinians. Hopefully they can do away with Hamas, have a ceasefire and try to get some two state solution functioning again

[JimBHibees]

I read a story today where Israel is attacking a hospital in Gaza City. There used drones and other intelligence to verify there are no civilians in the hospital but there is 100 hundred Hamas fighters in there. The journalists can see rockets and gunfire coming from the hospital but Israel won’t flatten it because it would give Hamas and pro-Palestinians propaganda to say another hospital has been flattened.

It’s obviously absolutely brutal for the Palestinians. Hopefully they can do away with Hamas, have a ceasefire and try to get some two state solution functioning again

Has the two state solution ever functioned

[MKHIBEE]

I read a story today where Israel is attacking a hospital in Gaza City. There used drones and other intelligence to verify there are no civilians in the hospital but there is 100 hundred Hamas fighters in there. The journalists can see rockets and gunfire coming from the hospital but Israel won’t flatten it because it would give Hamas and pro-Palestinians propaganda to say another hospital has been flattened.

It’s obviously absolutely brutal for the Palestinians. Hopefully they can do away with Hamas, have a ceasefire and try to get some two state solution functioning again

Another view on attacking hospitals

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/8/israel-hamas-war-live-humanitarian-aid-targeted-amid-gaza-bombardment

[MKHIBEE]

That’s been common practice for the IDF for years.
It explains why the death toll seems low (a horrific 10,000) so far compared to the level of devastation.


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Makes it hard to understand why so many are saying the figure is actually too high. FWIW, when they find all the bodies under the rubble it will be higher

[Ozyhibby]

Makes it hard to understand why so many are saying the figure is actually too high. FWIW, when they find all the bodies under the rubble it will be higher

When you see the devastation, it’s hard to believe it’s only 10,000.
It will climb as hunger and disease start to take hold.


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[McD]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67327079

This story is absolutely wild and I really don’t know what to make of it.



I agree with you, really don’t know to make of it

[Stairway 2 7]

Roger Waters says we don't know if Hamas did the October 7th massacre and it could be a false flag. Some of them literally live streamed from their personal social media, Hamas government spokesman admitted it, hundreds of videos cctv and videos made by the terrorists themselves. Absolute tit of a man. It shouldn't be a surprise mind as Putin's puppet also said he didn't believe the Bucha massacre happened or that Russia/Assad committed their crimes including gassing the Syrians. If you need a massacre denied, he's got man

https://www.thedailybeast.com/roger-waters-hamas-oct-7-attack-may-have-been-false-flag?utm_source=twitter_owned_tdb&utm_medium=socialflow&via=twitter_page&utm_campaign=owned_social

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/bethrigby/status/1722333337656688819?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Mon Dieu4]

I see Nick Griffin is saying it could have been Hibs fans that attacked a poppy seller at the weekend because we are pro Hamas and IRA, ****ing mentalist

[MKHIBEE]

Netanyahu upset that someone has let the end game be known.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12712331/Benjamin-Netanyahu-suspends-Israeli-right-wing-minister-suggested-dropping-nuclear-bomb-Gaza-astonishing-remark-radio-interview-government-meetings-notice.html

[Hibs4185]

Netanyahu upset that someone has let the end game be known.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12712331/Benjamin-Netanyahu-suspends-Israeli-right-wing-minister-suggested-dropping-nuclear-bomb-Gaza-astonishing-remark-radio-interview-government-meetings-notice.html

I don’t quite think that’s the end game as it would seriously affect the Israeli people as well given the close proximity

[Kato]

Known weirdo Douglas Murray claiming Hamas are worse than the Nazis, as the Nazis "felt bad" about killing Jewish people.

What a crank.

https://twitter.com/waitmanb/status/1722930728839594245?t=WWbN64wQ_sdPd96msoUbBg&s=19

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[AgentDaleCooper]

One thing that never seems to be actually demonstrated to the public - is there actual proof that Hamas are operating underneath/inside hospitals?

[Hibs4185]

One thing that never seems to be actually demonstrated to the public - is there actual proof that Hamas are operating underneath/inside hospitals?

I read a story in the Telegraph where the journalist could see hamas fighters firing from a hospital and also another video where supposedly Hamas fighters were firing at civilians leaving the hospital in order to get them back into it and act as shields.

I suppose with all things in life, no one really knows how’s innocent and how’s telling the truth.

It does seem though that the majority of Palestinians what Hamas gone and out of their lives, which would suggest Hamas aren’t all that innocent.!

[Ozyhibby]

I’m almost certain they are in the main hospital and so are the Israelis. They have just about surrounded the hospital now and will be sending in troops very soon. A very risky operation that will cost IDF lives. They would not be doing that unless they felt sure that is where the Hamas HQ was.

The speed at which the Israelis are accomplishing their goals is impressive. Hamas are either weaker than expected or are trying to hide and hope they go away. That won’t work though. There appears to be no support for Hamas on the ground with the population. IDF managing to operate with very few casualties or resistance from ordinary Palestinians.
I suspect they will have full control of Gaza in next couple of weeks and will then try hand over to the PA.


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[Hibs4185]

I’m almost certain they are in the main hospital and so are the Israelis. They have just about surrounded the hospital now and will be sending in troops very soon. A very risky operation that will cost IDF lives. They would not be doing that unless they felt sure that is where the Hamas HQ was.

The speed at which the Israelis are accomplishing their goals is impressive. Hamas are either weaker than expected or are trying to hide and hope they go away. That won’t work though. There appears to be no support for Hamas on the ground with the population. IDF managing to operate with very few casualties or resistance from ordinary Palestinians.
I suspect they will have full control of Gaza in next couple of weeks and will then try hand over to the PA.


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Good post. My worry would be, how many Hamas are escaping with the civilians, which is perhaps why the IDF are making good progress.

[Mon Dieu4]

IDF managing to operate with very few casualties

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Just the 10,000 civilians 4,000 of which are children, but apart from that aye

[MKHIBEE]

Just the 10,000 civilians 4,000 of which are children, but apart from that aye

Not counting the 1500 children missing. Plus adults.

[Ozyhibby]

Just the 10,000 civilians 4,000 of which are children, but apart from that aye


Not counting the 1500 children missing. Plus adults.

I was talking about IDF casualties.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

I was talking about IDF casualties.


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From what i've read they've also seen pretty limited Hamas casualties - roughly 60 was the figure i saw a few days ago.

[Stairway 2 7]

From what i've read they've also seen pretty limited Hamas casualties - roughly 60 was the figure i saw a few days ago.

Not a chance I've unfortunately seen dozens of drone videos of ifvs and barracks going. I'm sure many will have escaped but as was shown with ISIS it doesn't really matter if you destroy all their apparatus and kill or imprison the known leaders

[Keith_M]

How many hostages are there that have not yet been released?

I can't help thinking about what the poor souls must be going through, and their families/friends as well.

[Ozyhibby]

How many hostages are there that have not yet been released?

I can't help thinking about what the poor souls must be going through, and their families/friends as well.

Think it’s still about 200 or so. I doubt they are all coming back. Hopefully soon one side decides they need peace.


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[Pretty Boy]

I know it's not right to turn a blind eye but I genuinely just can't watch the news anymore.

The images on Channel 4 news of premature babies huddled together for warmth because there is no electricity to power incubators is just too much.

I just don't understand how anyone regardless of religious belief or lack thereof, political affiliation, nationality, race or whatever else can be cold to that. How can anyone with children, or indeed without children, watch that and argue about what is and isn't a 'just war'?

Hopefully the events of the last few weeks have a silver lining and the populace on both sides realise that extremism on either side is no answer.

[MKHIBEE]

I know it's not right to turn a blind eye but I genuinely just can't watch the news anymore.

The images on Channel 4 news of premature babies huddled together for warmth because there is no electricity to power incubators is just too much.

I just don't understand how anyone regardless of religious belief or lack thereof, political affiliation, nationality, race or whatever else can be cold to that. How can anyone with children, or indeed without children, watch that and argue about what is and isn't a 'just war'?

Babies are now dying because they cannot get oxygen due to the lack of electricity and the Israeli army have started throwing injured patients out onto the streets from one hospital.

https://www.aljazeera.com/

[Keith_M]

I know it's not right to turn a blind eye but I genuinely just can't watch the news anymore.

The images on Channel 4 news of premature babies huddled together for warmth because there is no electricity to power incubators is just too much.

I wouldn't classify that as turning a blind eye, mate.

You clearly care a great deal about what's happening to these poor people and it's understandably hard to cope with watching this kind of thing on the news every night.



...
I just don't understand how anyone regardless of religious belief or lack thereof, political affiliation, nationality, race or whatever else can be cold to that. How can anyone with children, or indeed without children, watch that and argue about what is and isn't a 'just war'?

Hopefully the events of the last few weeks have a silver lining and the populace on both sides realise that extremism on either side is no answer.

I think we all share that view

[Stairway 2 7]

Corbyn no really putting his antisemitism critic's to bed on PM last night. Repeatedly refused to say that Hamas are terrorists. Why can't he just saying Isreal have been committing genocide for decades. This retaliation has been a disgusting slaughter. Hamas are also an evil homophobic, antisemitic hateful terrorists group and the region will only move forward when Hamas and Netanyahus right wing government is gone.

Corbyn also unfortunately doesn't realise with the Internet everything is stored. He denied saying our friends from Hamas in a meeting years ago. He did and also said " the idea that an organisation dedicated to the good of the Palestinian people and to bring peace political and social justice to the whole region should be labelled a terrorists organisation is a really big big historical mistake "
https://twitter.com/Zokko18/status/1724169002765742117

We all back the wrong horse but don't double down when it's clear they are ****. I'm not sure why it wasn't clear anyway amnesty said they banned homosexuality, killed opponents, backed honour killings of women, one of the lowest level of female employment in the world, removed all domestic violence laws.

Hamas are **** but and it's the Palestinians that suffer. They can't protest against the government and they are constantly bombed, shot, have the land stolen by the isrealis. A horrible existence with no clear path out.

[MKHIBEE]

Corbyn no really putting his antisemitism critic's to bed on PM last night. Repeatedly refused to say that Hamas are terrorists. Why can't he just saying Isreal have been committing genocide for decades. This retaliation has been a disgusting slaughter. Hamas are also an evil homophobic, antisemitic hateful terrorists group and the region will only move forward when Hamas and Netanyahus right wing government is gone.

Corbyn also unfortunately doesn't realise with the Internet everything is stored. He denied saying our friends from Hamas in a meeting years ago. He did and also said " the idea that an organisation dedicated to the good of the Palestinian people and to bring peace political and social justice to the whole region should be labelled a terrorists organisation is a really big big historical mistake "
https://twitter.com/Zokko18/status/1724169002765742117

We all back the wrong horse but don't double down when it's clear they are ****. I'm not sure why it wasn't clear anyway amnesty said they banned homosexuality, killed opponents, backed honour killings of women, one of the lowest level of female employment in the world, removed all domestic violence laws.

Hamas are **** but and it's the Palestinians that suffer. They can't protest against the government and they are constantly bombed, shot, have the land stolen by the isrealis. A horrible existence with no clear path out.

Thats no different from many countries in the Middle East, unfortunately these countries get to hold major sporting events in an attempt to gloss over their policies.

[Stairway 2 7]

Thats no different from many countries in the Middle East, unfortunately these countries get to hold major sporting events in an attempt to gloss over their policies.

Yep they are ******g disgusting too, Saudi murder journalists have abhorrent human rights and like Israel they have been committing genocide in Yemen for example.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Thats no different from many countries in the Middle East, unfortunately these countries get to hold major sporting events in an attempt to gloss over their policies.

exactly - Corbyn is being an absolute eejit here IMO, but even so, that doesn't actually make him any worse than any of the other politicians, in power or in opposition.

[MKHIBEE]

Yep they are ******g disgusting too, Saudi murder journalists have abhorrent human rights and like Israel they have been committing genocide in Yemen for example.
That’s true, which is a sad reflection of the world we live in and how such regimes are bolstered by the support they receive from many western governments.

[Ozyhibby]

IDF in the main hospital now. Let’s hope this is quick and they get the Hamas fighters they are looking for.


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[Stairway 2 7]

IDF in the main hospital now. Let’s hope this is quick and they get the Hamas fighters they are looking for.


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The US has said they believe their Intel that Hamas base is under the hospital and the EU release a joint statement condemning Hamas for using hospitals and human shield tactics.

Definitely putting their cards on the table as it'll be proven one way or the other in the next week or so.

[Jones28]

The US has said they believe their Intel that Hamas base is under the hospital and the EU release a joint statement condemning Hamas for using hospitals and human shield tactics.

Definitely putting their cards on the table as it'll be proven one way or the other in the next week or so.

*******s.

[Bristolhibby]

I’m almost certain they are in the main hospital and so are the Israelis. They have just about surrounded the hospital now and will be sending in troops very soon. A very risky operation that will cost IDF lives. They would not be doing that unless they felt sure that is where the Hamas HQ was.

The speed at which the Israelis are accomplishing their goals is impressive. Hamas are either weaker than expected or are trying to hide and hope they go away. That won’t work though. There appears to be no support for Hamas on the ground with the population. IDF managing to operate with very few casualties or resistance from ordinary Palestinians.
I suspect they will have full control of Gaza in next couple of weeks and will then try hand over to the PA.


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Elections with a moderate Palestinian government being returned is key.

One of the reasons it probably won’t happen.

And so it will continue. Isreal like the US led coalition in Iraq had no idea what to do once they “win”.

J

[MKHIBEE]

The US has said they believe their Intel that Hamas base is under the hospital and the EU release a joint statement condemning Hamas for using hospitals and human shield tactics.

Definitely putting their cards on the table as it'll be proven one way or the other in the next week or so.

Whether that is true or not, and, as far as I’m aware, no evidence has been produced to back up Israeli claims, hospitals are protected under international agreements. Apparently all hospitals in Gaza are under attack, do they all have Hamas command posts under them? Hamas and Isreal leaders should be facing war crimes tribunal when this whole sorry slaughter is finished

[Ozyhibby]

Whether that is true or not, and, as far as I’m aware, no evidence has been produced to back up Israeli claims, hospitals are protected under international agreements. Apparently all hospitals in Gaza are under attack, do they all have Hamas command posts under them? Hamas and Isreal leaders should be facing war crimes tribunal when this whole sorry slaughter is finished

They lose their protection under international law if they are used for military purposes.


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[MKHIBEE]

They lose their protection under international law if they are used for military purposes.


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of which they have yet to provide evidence. Any action taken in such circumstances has to be proportionate to the objective. If premature babies and injured civilians dying is proportionate it doesn’t speak well for humanity.

[Ozyhibby]

of which they have yet to provide evidence. Any action taken in such circumstances has to be proportionate to the objective. If premature babies and injured civilians dying is proportionate it doesn’t speak well for humanity.

Why do you think they are putting so much effort and risking IDF lives in order to take this hospital rather than just flatten it?


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[Stairway 2 7]

of which they have yet to provide evidence. Any action taken in such circumstances has to be proportionate to the objective. If premature babies and injured civilians dying is proportionate it doesn’t speak well for humanity.

It's not just Israel saying it. The US has said they have multiple sources including from the Palestinian side that Hamas are using hospitals as bases and for weapons storage. Unicef said today Hamas needs to stop using hospitals the EU too. In 2014 amnesty said Hamas used the base under the hospital to torture political prisoners.

It'll all come out shortly but they putting their neck out if it is untrue.

[MKHIBEE]

They lose their protection under international law if they are used for military purposes.


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of which they have yet to provide evidence. Any action taken in such circumstances has to be proportionate to the objective. If premature babies and injured civilians dying is proportionate it doesn’t speak well for humanity.

[DaveF]

Given how it's going I doubt many - if any - of the hostages will see daylight again.

[Ozyhibby]

of which they have yet to provide evidence. Any action taken in such circumstances has to be proportionate to the objective. If premature babies and injured civilians dying is proportionate it doesn’t speak well for humanity.

https://x.com/yaaricohen/status/1724855705704845818?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[grunt]

https://x.com/yaaricohen/status/1724855705704845818?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Sadly, given the state of the world today, we have no idea if this is genuine or not.

[DaveF]

Sadly, given the state of the world today, we have no idea if this is genuine or not.

Didn't look like much of a stash. Gun nuts in the US would have more weaponry.

[MKHIBEE]

Sadly, given the state of the world today, we have no idea if this is genuine or not.
They will need to come up with more than that to convince me it was being used as a command centre. The Israeli army are just as likely as Hamas to peddle lies and propaganda.

[Stairway 2 7]

Rumours a deal brokered by Qatar and the US being considered by Israel. Hamas release 50 hostages in exchange for a limited pause.

[Ozyhibby]

Rumours a deal brokered by Qatar and the US being considered by Israel. Hamas release 50 hostages in exchange for a limited pause.

[emoji1696]


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[JimBHibees]

They will need to come up with more than that to convince me it was being used as a command centre. The Israeli army are just as likely as Hamas to peddle lies and propaganda.

The US also

[Ozyhibby]

They will need to come up with more than that to convince me it was being used as a command centre. The Israeli army are just as likely as Hamas to peddle lies and propaganda.

I doubt anything will convince you.
Why do you think the IDF is raiding the hospital?


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[Stairway 2 7]

I doubt anything will convince you.
Why do you think the IDF is raiding the hospital?


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Could have been bloody for them, Islamic jihads have claimed IDF lives in the hospital campus

@michaelh992
al-Quds Brigades of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad: "Our fighters are still engaged in fierce clashes in the vicinity of the al-Shifa Complex and confirm that there have been casualties among the enemy forces" #Gaza

IDF released geolocated video of Hamas firing an RPG from the front of the hospital so loses could be believed
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1724080276056277074

[MKHIBEE]

I doubt anything will convince you.
Why do you think the IDF is raiding the hospital?


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Evidence, corroborated by an agency such as the UN or the Red Cross will do.
The Israelis believe Hamas have a command bunker under the hospital. So their intelligence says. Pity their intelligence were asleep on the 7th. Hamas have asked that outside agencies such as the Red Cross, be allowed onsite to verify the claims. Isreal have refused. Whether that is true or not I don’t know. There are 2 main factions in this ****show and neither can claim the moral high ground. The innocents on both sides will suffer the most, long after the bullets and bombs stop, and the Palestinians will suffer further and greater oppression than they do now.

[Stairway 2 7]

Evidence, corroborated by an agency such as the UN or the Red Cross will do.
The Israelis believe Hamas have a command bunker under the hospital. So their intelligence says. Pity their intelligence were asleep on the 7th. Hamas have asked that outside agencies such as the Red Cross, be allowed onsite to verify the claims. Isreal have refused. Whether that is true or not I don’t know. There are 2 main factions in this ****show and neither can claim the moral high ground. The innocents on both sides will suffer the most, long after the bullets and bombs stop, and the Palestinians will suffer further and greater oppression than they do now.

Hopefully Hamas are defeated and Netanyahu also, it's the only chance of peace.

I notice Netanyahu is refusing to let the PA take over. It shouldn't be that ****bags choice.

Mohammed Dahlan trying to position himself as new leader, but u don't think he has the support of the people
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231112-could-exiled-former-palestinian-leader-mohammed-dahlan-lead-gaza-after-the-israel-hamas-war?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=x&utm_source=user

[MKHIBEE]

Hopefully Hamas are defeated and Netanyahu also, it's the only chance of peace.

I notice Netanyahu is refusing to let the PA take over. It shouldn't be that ****bags choice.

Mohammed Dahlan trying to position himself as new leader, but u don't think he has the support of the people
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231112-could-exiled-former-palestinian-leader-mohammed-dahlan-lead-gaza-after-the-israel-hamas-war?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=x&utm_source=user

It shouldn’t but it probably will be

[Stairway 2 7]

It shouldn’t but it probably will be

Definitely will be they are going to fully occupy under the name of peacekeeping. They will try to do a Russia/US and put in a puppet. Its genocide as per

[MKHIBEE]

Read lots of speculation. Some say Netanyahu was to focused on internal battles and culture wars. Many of the security services were moved from borders to help calm protesters. He also had lots of bad blood with his army recently saying they were in bed with the left.

Also it's looking like a lot of the planning was done Iran away from eyes

Mostly though I think terrorism is hard to stop, see 9/11 or 7/7. It's pretty easy to gun down civilians and run. It's definitely a huge red face. Sadly the ones who pay will be the innocent in the Gaza strip


No doubt the Government and opposition will be falling over themselves to offer refuge to many of those who have nowhere to live and have been displaced.

[CropleyWasGod]

No doubt the Government and opposition will be falling over themselves to offer refuge to many of those who have nowhere to live and have been displaced.

I'd hope so.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/alexjrowell/status/1725493490929250462?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/alexjrowell/status/1725493490929250462?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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That's a powerful but depressing piece. Poor people have no chance

[MKHIBEE]

That's a powerful but depressing piece. Poor people have no chance

That could have been written, with the same authority, by almost any one in the Gaza Strip. As you say, powerful and depressing, frighteningly so

[Stairway 2 7]

Isreal drip feeding evidence from Shifa hospital.

Drone footage from a tunnel in the hospital complex
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1726284025407451613

They have also released videos of hostages being brought into the hospital by Hamas fighters. It also shows captured IDF vehicles parked at the hospital.
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1726311040072474812

IDF announce two soldiers have died so they must be confident of Hamas presence if they are risking a ground operation.

This is all very separate from them flattening the rest of Gaza city indiscriminately though

[Ozyhibby]

Isreal drip feeding evidence from Shifa hospital.

Drone footage from a tunnel in the hospital complex
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1726284025407451613

They have also released videos of hostages being brought into the hospital by Hamas fighters. It also shows captured IDF vehicles parked at the hospital.
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1726311040072474812

IDF announce two soldiers have died so they must be confident of Hamas presence if they are risking a ground operation.

This is all very separate from them flattening the rest of Gaza city indiscriminately though

Who killed the IDF soldiers in the hospital? A couple of maternity nurses? It’s clear Hamas were in the hospital.
As you say, just because Hamas commit war crimes, doesn’t give Isreal a pass.


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[MKHIBEE]

Isreal drip feeding evidence from Shifa hospital.

Drone footage from a tunnel in the hospital complex
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1726284025407451613

They have also released videos of hostages being brought into the hospital by Hamas fighters. It also shows captured IDF vehicles parked at the hospital.
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1726311040072474812

IDF announce two soldiers have died so they must be confident of Hamas presence if they are risking a ground operation.

This is all very separate from them flattening the rest of Gaza city indiscriminately though

Uncorroborated evidence. The shaft and the tunnel were filmed with a break in the filming.
It is not separate from flattening Gaza indiscriminately, it’s part of the same process. They have been deliberately bombing schools, hospitals, places of safety used by Palestinians. Not because they think Hamas is using them as human shields but to ensure that no Palestinian can consider themselves safe. All allowed by many in the west, including our own government and opposition, who just repeat the mantra that “ Israel must be allowed to defend itself”. As if the previous 75 years of oppression never happened

[Stairway 2 7]

Uncorroborated evidence. The shaft and the tunnel were filmed with a break in the filming.
It is not separate from flattening Gaza indiscriminately, it’s part of the same process. They have been deliberately bombing schools, hospitals, places of safety used by Palestinians. Not because they think Hamas is using them as human shields but to ensure that no Palestinian can consider themselves safe. All allowed by many in the west, including our own government and opposition, who just repeat the mantra that “ Israel must be allowed to defend itself”. As if the previous 75 years of oppression never happened

I saw a big following commentator say the footage was separate and that the hospital staff would have noticed concrete getting poured. They probably did, the same way they would have noticed they Hamad terrorists bringing in hostages. They also probably value their lives. Someone sent him this separate footage of the same tunnel with concrete, he sort of says well it needs to have been used recently for it to be justified..
https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1726291665478979777/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1726291665478979777&currentTweetUser=EylonALevy

I don't know what's trying to be proven is it that Israel is bad we know that as they have flattened schools mosques and residential buildings with no thought of consequence. Or is it to say rapist, homophobic murderers of thousands of innocent Jews Hamas aren't bad?

It's like the Hamas bomb that hit the hospital courtyard it let's Israel say don't believe anything bad against us as Hamas was lying. The focus should be on neighbourhoods flattened

[MKHIBEE]

I saw a big following commentator say the footage was separate and that the hospital staff would have noticed concrete getting poured. They probably did, the same way they would have noticed they Hamad terrorists bringing in hostages. They also probably value their lives. Someone sent him this separate footage of the same tunnel with concrete, he sort of says well it needs to have been used recently for it to be justified..
https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1726291665478979777/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1726291665478979777&currentTweetUser=EylonALevy

I don't know what's trying to be proven is it that Israel is bad we know that as they have flattened schools mosques and residential buildings with no thought of consequence. Or is it to say rapist, homophobic murderers of thousands of innocent Jews Hamas aren't bad?

It's like the Hamas bomb that hit the hospital courtyard it let's Israel say don't believe anything bad against us as Hamas was lying. The focus should be on neighbourhoods flattened

Ita all bad but the, mainly western agencies, attempts to dehumanise the Palestinians whilst at the same time giving the Israeli’s free hand to do whatever they like make all the hand wringing and faux sympathy stick in my craw. Call the Israel state out for what it is. They don’t seem to have a problem doing so with Hamas. Whilst more innocents die.

[Hibs4185]

I saw a big following commentator say the footage was separate and that the hospital staff would have noticed concrete getting poured. They probably did, the same way they would have noticed they Hamad terrorists bringing in hostages. They also probably value their lives. Someone sent him this separate footage of the same tunnel with concrete, he sort of says well it needs to have been used recently for it to be justified..
https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1726291665478979777/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1726291665478979777&currentTweetUser=EylonALevy

I don't know what's trying to be proven is it that Israel is bad we know that as they have flattened schools mosques and residential buildings with no thought of consequence. Or is it to say rapist, homophobic murderers of thousands of innocent Jews Hamas aren't bad?

It's like the Hamas bomb that hit the hospital courtyard it let's Israel say don't believe anything bad against us as Hamas was lying. The focus should be on neighbourhoods flattened

I heard an interview with a British doctor who worked at the hospital. He said there were areas which were out of bounds. Everyone knew why but no one said out of fear.

I did think the tunnel was a bit far away from the hospital to be deeemed part of it, but there’s just too much evidence that Hamas do use it for military purposes.

Yes it could be planted. But with everything in life, you need to look at both sides of the arguement and their evidence and make your own judgement.

[MKHIBEE]

I heard an interview with a British doctor who worked at the hospital. He said there were areas which were out of bounds. Everyone knew why but no one said out of fear.

I did think the tunnel was a bit far away from the hospital to be deeemed part of it, but there’s just too much evidence that Hamas do use it for military purposes.

Yes it could be planted. But with everything in life, you need to look at both sides of the arguement and their evidence and make your own judgement.

What “evidence” have you seen that backs that up?

[Stairway 2 7]

What “evidence” have you seen that backs that up?

I don't think they will use the actual hospital and have a door saying Hamas tunnels that would be daft. I also listened to the English doctor on france24 who said there was always Hamas presence inside and areas that you were told not to go into. The cctv of the Thai man being walked into the hospital by half a dozen Hamas who have conversations with doctors. The IDF vehicles captured are in CCTV videos being parked inside the hospital compound. Two videos of a tunnel 30 metres from the hospital front door inside the hospital grounds. Amnesty said five years ago they had evidence political prisoners were tortured in the hospital. The UN and the EU have said they believe Hamas is using hospitals as military positions. CCTV footage of a Hamas fighter walking into the hospital last week with a rocket propelled granade over his shoulder. Palestinian Islamic Jihad said they hit IDF in the hospital.

I don't believe Israel for a second about anything but you have to say why are the IDF doing a militarily risky ground operation costing lives when they could just continue the ground operation through the strip. On the other hand you could believe Hamas

[Stairway 2 7]

Humanitarian Ceasefire announced imminently a few sources are saying. It'll be in return for 50-100 hostages released.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231121/5a99fa02b289de830d8abb63bfc1ddfe.jpg

Interesting wording used when it comes to describing Palestinians compared to Isrealis.
Israelis are hostages, Palestinians are prisoners.
Isrealis are children and mothers, Palestinians are women and minors.
I expect better from RTE.


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[MKHIBEE]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231121/5a99fa02b289de830d8abb63bfc1ddfe.jpg

Interesting wording used when it comes to describing Palestinians compared to Isrealis.
Israelis are hostages, Palestinians are prisoners.
Isrealis are children and mothers, Palestinians are women and minors.
I expect better from RTE.


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A discussion on the language used when describing the actions of the 2 different factions.


https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2023/11/11/why-is-western-media-accused-of-bias-on-israel-palestine

[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231121/5a99fa02b289de830d8abb63bfc1ddfe.jpg

Interesting wording used when it comes to describing Palestinians compared to Isrealis.
Israelis are hostages, Palestinians are prisoners.
Isrealis are children and mothers, Palestinians are women and minors.
I expect better from RTE.


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I guess they would say because one are hostages whilst the other have been convicted or waiting to be convicted of crimes. Whether they trials or detentions are fair is worse than doubtful knowing Israel. Israel has 140 under 18s in detention with appallingly 8 of them aged 14-16 the rest 16-18. All arrested for security breaches, which could be anything. Hopefully all get freed

[MKHIBEE]

I guess they would say because one are hostages whilst the other have been convicted or waiting to be convicted of crimes. Whether they trials or detentions are fair is worse than doubtful knowing Israel. Israel has 140 under 18s in detention with appallingly 8 of them aged 14-16 the rest 16-18. All arrested for security breaches, which could be anything. Hopefully all get freed

Isreal is the only country in the world that tries children in military courts. They can get 20 years for throwing a stone

[Stairway 2 7]

Isreal is the only country in the world that tries children in military courts. They can get 20 years for throwing a stone

Possibly a better outcome for them than being shot to death, which I've unfortunately seen and not just this year

[MKHIBEE]

Possibly a better outcome for them than being shot to death, which I've unfortunately seen and not just this year.

Several Israeli politicians and leaders have called Palestinians “sub human animals”, and thry treat them as such . Netanyahu was getting stick for allowing 1 tanker of fuel into Gaza per day. Beyond any sensible reasoning

[Stairway 2 7]

Ceasefire agreed 4 days for 50 hostages, 1 day for every further 10 hostages released. 240 hostages so could give 20 days of Ceasefire.

Releasing prisoners was always going to be the quickest route to de-escalation. I'm sure both sides will want to start up again as soon as they can but this should hopefully let the Palestinians escape.

Although Jordan has said if one Palestinians refugee is brought into Jordan via Israel they will see it as a declaration of war by Israel. With Egypt saying similar I don't see anywhere for the Palestinians to safely go

[lapsedhibee]

Although Jordan has said if one Palestinians refugee is brought into Jordan via Israel they will see it as a declaration of war by Israel. With Egypt saying similar I don't see anywhere for the Palestinians to safely go
Perhaps if they all take to small boats and start landing on other countries' shores, we will hear less parroting by Western leaders of 'Israel has the right to defend itself'.

[Ozyhibby]

Ceasefire agreed 4 days for 50 hostages, 1 day for every further 10 hostages released. 240 hostages so could give 20 days of Ceasefire.

Releasing prisoners was always going to be the quickest route to de-escalation. I'm sure both sides will want to start up again as soon as they can but this should hopefully let the Palestinians escape.

Although Jordan has said if one Palestinians refugee is brought into Jordan via Israel they will see it as a declaration of war by Israel. With Egypt saying similar I don't see anywhere for the Palestinians to safely go

On the day Isreal and Hamas agree a ceasefire, the Scottish Tories vote against it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Isreal release footage of the tunnel directly under the hospital, they enter a new shaft five foot from the hospital

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1727476410803953868

A walk through of some of the complex, air conditioning, kitchens, toilets, communication systems

https://twitter.com/breeadail/status/1727455806981877792

Another tunnel starting from inside a building in the hospital complex

https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1727386341800075366

[Hibs4185]

Isreal release footage of the tunnel directly under the hospital, they enter a new shaft five foot from the hospital

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1727476410803953868

A walk through of some of the complex, air conditioning, kitchens, toilets, communication systems

https://twitter.com/breeadail/status/1727455806981877792

Another tunnel starting from inside a building in the hospital complex

https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1727386341800075366

How have the IDF managed to build all those tunnels in such little time? They’ve only been in control of the hospital for 2-3 days 🙈

Edit…sky news have just shown some of these tunnels and said that Israel originally built them? But it’s a building a picture of Hamas using them as shields

[Ozyhibby]

How have the IDF managed to build all those tunnels in such little time? They’ve only been in control of the hospital for 2-3 days [emoji85]

Edit…sky news have just shown some of these tunnels and said that Israel originally built them? But it’s a building a picture of Hamas using them as shields

Their usual expertise is in knocking down Palestinian houses.


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[Moulin Yarns]

How have the IDF managed to build all those tunnels in such little time? They’ve only been in control of the hospital for 2-3 days 🙈

Edit…sky news have just shown some of these tunnels and said that Israel originally built them? But it’s a building a picture of Hamas using them as shields

Israel originally built the hospital if I remember correctly.

[Stairway 2 7]

How have the IDF managed to build all those tunnels in such little time? They’ve only been in control of the hospital for 2-3 days 🙈

Edit…sky news have just shown some of these tunnels and said that Israel originally built them? But it’s a building a picture of Hamas using them as shields

I'd like to see that report as I don't think anyone is saying that the new video is anything but Hamas tunnels, the design is consistent with all the other miles of tunnels. Israel updated the hospital in the 80s these are clearly being used now regardless, modern air conditioning units, phones, plumbing and tvs. Nathan Russer from bellingcat has geolocated hundreds of meters of it from the pics and videos. It travels under the hospital and off under Gaza. Israel didn't make the vast system under the city

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1727672195101667499

[MKHIBEE]

I'd like to see that report as I don't think anyone is saying that the new video is anything but Hamas tunnels, the design is consistent with all the other miles of tunnels. Israel updated the hospital in the 80s these are clearly being used now regardless, modern air conditioning units, phones, plumbing and tvs. Nathan Russer from bellingcat has geolocated hundreds of meters of it from the pics and videos. It travels under the hospital and off under Gaza. Israel didn't make the vast system under the city

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1727672195101667499.

According to a former Israeli PM, they built the tunnels under Al Shifa. This has been rumoured for years

https://truthout.org/articles/bunkers-under-gaza-hospital-were-built-by-israel-former-israel-pm-says/

[JimBHibees]

How have the IDF managed to build all those tunnels in such little time? They’ve only been in control of the hospital for 2-3 days 🙈

Edit…sky news have just shown some of these tunnels and said that Israel originally built them? But it’s a building a picture of Hamas using them as shields

Think there is an enormous tunnel infrastructure under Gaza to Egypt predominantly. Has been a thriving economy in the past.

[Stairway 2 7]

.

According to a former Israeli PM, they built the tunnels under Al Shifa. This has been rumoured for years

https://truthout.org/articles/bunkers-under-gaza-hospital-were-built-by-israel-former-israel-pm-says/

No he said they built bunkers to extend the hospital, that was known it was full reinforced concrete. He never said they built the tunnel system. Hamas denied there was any tunnels underneath, wouldn't they say yeah there is Israel built them.

They were saying they don't exist, then when found they said it was two separate videos, they are silent now that it's obvious there is a vast tunnel network. It'll be excavated more but some will still die on the weird hill that Hamas's miles of tunnels don't go under the hospital.

Even if they weren't built by Hamas although they obviously were. They are clearly using it decades after Israel has gone and have secret entrances inside buildings

[Stairway 2 7]

Think there is an enormous tunnel infrastructure under Gaza to Egypt predominantly. Has been a thriving economy in the past.

Saw this estimation, they are absolutely vast and under most of Gaza city. That's no excuse for Israel to flatten the city with disregard for the lives

[MKHIBEE]

No he said they built bunkers to extend the hospital, that was known it was full reinforced concrete. He never said they built the tunnel system. Hamas denied there was any tunnels underneath, wouldn't they say yeah there is Israel built them.

They were saying they don't exist, then when found they said it was two separate videos, they are silent now that it's obvious there is a vast tunnel network. It'll be excavated more but some will still die on the weird hill that Hamas's miles of tunnels don't go under the hospital.

Even if they weren't built by Hamas although they obviously were. They are clearly using it decades after Israel has gone and have secret entrances inside buildings
One would imagine that underground bunkers would need connecting to each other.

https://theintercept.com/2023/11/21/al-shifa-hospital-hamas-israel/

[Stairway 2 7]

One would imagine that underground bunkers would need connecting to each other.

https://theintercept.com/2023/11/21/al-shifa-hospital-hamas-israel/

That biased piece is before Israel released its new videos with the tunnels going for hundreds of meters away from the hospital. They are also the same as the other Hamas tunnels.

I saw an Al Jazeera piece yesterday saying the video released on Sunday was faked. They say it was 2 videos spliced i believe you said similar. They say the first shaft was beside the hospital then they cut to clear hamas tunnels. They have been silent since Israel released dozens of videos showing this wasn't the case and there is a labyrinth of tunnels that also goes underneath.

Regardless of when they were built they clearly have modern upgrades like aircon and telephones. They are under the hospital and have multiple exit points. The evidence gets clearer daily

[MKHIBEE]

That biased piece is before Israel released its new videos with the tunnels going for hundreds of meters away from the hospital. They are also the same as the other Hamas tunnels.

I saw an Al Jazeera piece yesterday saying the video released on Sunday was faked. They say it was 2 videos spliced i believe you said similar. They say the first shaft was beside the hospital then they cut to clear hamas tunnels. They have been silent since Israel released dozens of videos showing this wasn't the case and there is a labyrinth of tunnels that also goes underneath.

Regardless of when they were built they clearly have modern upgrades like aircon and telephones. They are under the hospital and have multiple exit points. The evidence gets clearer daily

It’s gone beyond who said this and who said what. It’s difficult to argue now that Hamas aren’t using tunnels under the hospital, whoever may have built what originally. Such actions by Hamas affect the protection offered to the hospitals in times of conflict . Hamas use as a military compound does not give the Israelis carte Blanche to do what they like in and around the hospital. It’s all about “proportionality’. IMO Isreal have acted outwith reasonable proportionality. As they have done for 75 years.