Hamas attack on Israel

[MKHIBEE]

The Israelis successfully rescued two hostages in Gaza... and managed to kill over 60 Palestinians, the majority of whom were innocent civilians, while doing so.

State sponsored murder, supported by many in the West. With much more to come

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240216/19fd37f01f286d08a72aa42fc2c7797e.jpg

Australia now calling for a ceasefire. Starmer and Sunak still happy to carry on.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240216/19fd37f01f286d08a72aa42fc2c7797e.jpg

Australia now calling for a ceasefire. Starmer and Sunak still happy to carry on.


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BBC seems to be quite behind on reporting this for sone reason

[Hibrandenburg]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240216/19fd37f01f286d08a72aa42fc2c7797e.jpg

Australia now calling for a ceasefire. Starmer and Sunak still happy to carry on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The conflict in the Middle East is the 2nd most talked about subject at the MSC today. Putin murdering Navalny has knocked it down the pecking order.

[MKHIBEE]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240216/19fd37f01f286d08a72aa42fc2c7797e.jpg

Australia now calling for a ceasefire. Starmer and Sunak still happy to carry on.


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All very laudable objectives but they might as well be pissing in the wind. Israel do not want a 2 state solution, who is going to make them negotiate one? A land offensive in Rafa would catastrophic? What the hell has it been up to now?
The Palestinians need action, not mealy mouthed platitudes, however laudable they may be

[tamig]

All very laudable objectives but they might as well be pissing in the wind. Israel do not want a 2 state solution, who is going to make them negotiate one? A land offensive in Rafa would catastrophic? What the hell has it been up to now?
The Palestinians need action, not mealy mouthed platitudes, however laudable they may be

Netanyahu isn’t interested in a two state solution. When he’s voted out, the new people might think differently. Netanyahu is done.

[MKHIBEE]

Netanyahu isn’t interested in a two state solution. When he’s voted out, the new people might think differently. Netanyahu is done.
They may but I have not seen anything that gives me hope they will.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Netanyahu isn’t interested in a two state solution. When he’s voted out, the new people might think differently. Netanyahu is done.
When are the elections?

[MKHIBEE]

When are the elections?
They are not due to be held until October 2026.

[Moulin Yarns]

Someone needs to stop Israeli attacks.


https://www-aljazeera-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/2/19/israeli-air-strikes-target-ghaziyeh-in-southern-lebanon?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17083783952184&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeera.com%2Fnews%2F 2024%2F2%2F19%2Fisraeli-air-strikes-target-ghaziyeh-in-southern-lebanon


Absolutely ridiculous behaviour!!!

[DaveF]

It's all good. Our soon to king and overlord has said it should all stop. It's a major intervention apparently...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68343334

[Hibrandenburg]

It's all good. Our soon to king and overlord has said it should all stop. It's a major intervention apparently...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68343334

I watched that on BBC news and 2 stories later it was about Labour calling for a ceasefire that was doomed to failure according to the BBC.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/owenthompson/status/1760051541862428727?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Who’s telling the truth?


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[McSwanky]

https://x.com/owenthompson/status/1760051541862428727?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Who’s telling the truth?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHard to tell, but it's ****ing depressing that one or both of them are using this conflict as a point scoring exercise. The absolute state of our politics at the moment.

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[Stairway 2 7]

Hard to tell, but it's ****ing depressing that one or both of them are using this conflict as a point scoring exercise. The absolute state of our politics at the moment.

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All 4 parties involved are completely using the genocide as point scoring, they are all pathetic. The votes going to fail due to the Tories so can each party not just put out an official statement of what their exact opinion is. Stop the trying to trip each other up and arguing about words. Just let the public know your position and don't worry about the other parties conscience

[Ozyhibby]

All 4 parties involved are completely using the genocide as point scoring, they are all pathetic. The votes going to fail due to the Tories so can each party not just put out an official statement of what their exact opinion is. Stop the trying to trip each other up and arguing about words. Just let the public know your position and don't worry about the other parties conscience

What games are the SNP playing?


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[Stairway 2 7]

What games are the SNP playing?


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I saw one mp say there are literally lives at stake just vote for the bill, or along they lines. F off no lives are at stake from this bill that will fail. Labour have the right to agree to the wording they want just as the SNP do. Stop the political fake rage.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/owenthompson/status/1760051541862428727?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Who’s telling the truth?


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Snp cheif whip says no contact with him. Lib dems and Labour say they both asked for two state solution to be added. What a load of guff. If a company was run like the bairns at Westminster it would go bust

OwenThompson
Please tell me who you reached out to? As SNP Chief Whip no request was made to me

@wendychambLD
We did reach out last year, and the answer was “no”. We reached out this time, had a meeting, but no change. Both times we asked for a two state solution to be included as the best means for a lasting peace

[Ozyhibby]

I saw one mp say there are literally lives at stake just vote for the bill, or along they lines. F off no lives are at stake from this bill that will fail. Labour have the right to agree to the wording they want just as the SNP do. Stop the political fake rage.

Would Starmers position have moved without the SNP vote?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Would Starmers position have moved without the SNP vote?


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Probably as the public are now more in favour of a ceasefire so he would do the populist thing, he'd do it ridiculously slowly as he's more worried about the antisemitism label they have.

I think the large gains in three polls yesterday show the general public don't have it high on their priorities unfortunately, so he should have just fully backed ceasefire (if hostages released) earlier

[Ozyhibby]

Probably as the public are now more in favour of a ceasefire so he would do the populist thing, he'd do it ridiculously slowly as he's more worried about the antisemitism label they have.

I think the large gains in three polls yesterday show the general public don't have it high on their priorities unfortunately, so he should have just fully backed ceasefire (if hostages released) earlier

I disagree. If this vote was not happening where would the pressure for him to change position come from? Labour would not have brought this vote. He has moved position because the vote is happening and his mp’s are telling him they will vote with the snp if he does not change.
I do agree that public opinion is of no consequence here. Foreign policy does not move votes at a GE.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I disagree. If this vote was not happening where would the pressure for him to change position come from? Labour would not have brought this vote. He has moved position because the vote is happening and his mp’s are telling him they will vote with the snp if he does not change.
I do agree that public opinion is of no consequence here. Foreign policy does not move votes at a GE.


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Your right in that he probably would have hoped it would slip away without him having to talk about it. He'll wish tomorrow wasn't happening he seems a leader who doesn't want confrontation or to make a decision. He's lucky the tories are awful as I think many past tory leaders would have destroyed him.

Israel is going to take Rafah Starmer will hope its over by summer. The public forget easily, look at crimea, Kabul and Aleppo. He'll have to be more statesman like when leader though as he looks pathetic and only interested in the public view

[marinello59]

Hard to tell, but it's ****ing depressing that one or both of them are using this conflict as a point scoring exercise. The absolute state of our politics at the moment.

Sent from my YAL-L21 using Tapatalk

:agree:
Sam Coates called it right on Sky News yesterday describing the game playing by all parties as unedifying. None of them are blameless here.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/tomfrench85/status/1760311680376913999?s=12

Game playing SNP will vote for Labour’s amendment.


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[Berwickhibby]

https://x.com/tomfrench85/status/1760311680376913999?s=12

Game playing SNP will vote for Labour’s amendment.


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Good!! regardless who initiated the motion or the wording, let’s get our Government to try pressure for a ceasefire.

[DaveF]

US confirms it will drop aid into Gaza.

Just shows how little influence they have over Israel despite backing them to the hilt, that this is the only way they can get a tiny bit of help to those that need it.

All while supporting the Israeli genocide campaign.

[DaveF]

Israel shooting civilians again, more words from various talking heads but no action.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68454348

What does it take for countries to just denounce and stop supporting the murderous regime.

[Ozyhibby]

Israel shooting civilians again, more words from various talking heads but no action.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68454348

What does it take for countries to just denounce and stop supporting the murderous regime.

Starmer will be wondering how many replacement bullets we’ll need to send.


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[MKHIBEE]

Starmer will be wondering how many replacement bullets we’ll need to send.


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As many as they want.

[DaveF]

Police shoot dead a 12 year old kid for lighting a firework. One of 6 Palestinians killed that day.

And the west continues to back this murderous state.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68557147

[speedy_gonzales]

Police shoot dead a 12 year old kid for lighting a firework. One of 6 Palestinians killed that day.

And the west continues to back this murderous state.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68557147

I'm personally raging with the facts as known that have been presented.
I'm white Scottish of no denomination, if I was Palestinian or similar, I could see this leading me to take arms.
I know it's not the first time, and it won't be the last but the abuse of the settlers powers is just so blatant it would be comical (even though there's nothing funny about it!).

[MKHIBEE]

Police shoot dead a 12 year old kid for lighting a firework. One of 6 Palestinians killed that day.

And the west continues to back this murderous state.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68557147

Just another day in the Palestinian Territories, the West didn’t bother before, no reason to expect them to now.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I'm personally raging with the facts as known that have been presented.
I'm white Scottish of no denomination, if I was Palestinian or similar, I could see this leading me to take arms.
I know it's not the first time, and it won't be the last but the abuse of the settlers powers is just so blatant it would be comical (even though there's nothing funny about it!).

Totally agree.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that it's the Israeli state and the events organisers of the Nova festival that are actually mostly responsible for the hostages being taken.

It's equivalent to Britain splitting Northern Ireland and putting every single Catholic in essentially an open air prison...then holding a psy-trance festival just outside the gates.

On top of this, you've got the fact that the Palestinian cause had been slowly fading from public consciousness, just turning into 'one of those things' that are awful but that nothing can or will be done about - so from that, you have a massive motive for Hamas to do something horrendous that will incur a brutal Israeli response.

To be clear - I do not blame the hostages themselves at all, as they are all products of their environment, and I've seen a fair few videos online of people who attended the festival completely denouncing Israel's response.

I also don't doubt for a minute that the leaders of Hamas are horrible pr!cks, living very comfortably, while they sacrifice their own people. The really terrible thing is that Hamas and the ultra-Zionists basically need each other to stay relevant, so it's hard to see how this can stop. Bibi might get punted, but he and his party are by no means the only ones who want to get the Palestinians out of Palestine.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/gozukarafurkan/status/1770919234278740269?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

IDF attacking unarmed men.


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[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/gozukarafurkan/status/1770919234278740269?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

IDF attacking unarmed men.


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They appear to be making a habit of it. Aid workers, those collecting aid, indeed, any Palestinians they come across. Should be called the Israeli Death Force

[Pretty Boy]

Russia and China veto the US resolution at the UN for an immediate ceasefire.

Of course they did. Just as the US vetoed or abstained from previous resolutions because of who proposed them.

It's all so pitiful and predictable.

[silverhibee]

40 dead and 100s injured at a concert in Moscow, heavily armed men stormed the arena shooting on site then blew the building up, biggest terrorist attack in Moscow, ISIS have claimed responsibility for the attack and the USA warned American citizens not to gather in big crowds in Moscow as there was a threat of a terrorist attack.

Big question, Russian citizens will be pretty feared tonight and what does Putin do.

[neil7908]

40 dead and 100s injured at a concert in Moscow, heavily armed men stormed the arena shooting on site then blew the building up, biggest terrorist attack in Moscow, ISIS have claimed responsibility for the attack and the USA warned American citizens not to gather in big crowds in Moscow as there was a threat of a terrorist attack.

Big question, Russian citizens will be pretty feared tonight and what does Putin do.

They are already blaming Ukraine (!).

[Stairway 2 7]

Haven't seen this widely reported, absolutely horrific

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/israel-largest-west-bank-settlement-blinken-visit/

Israel announces largest West Bank land seizure since 1993 during Blinken visit

[DaveF]

Haven't seen this widely reported, absolutely horrific

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/israel-largest-west-bank-settlement-blinken-visit/

Israel announces largest West Bank land seizure since 1993 during Blinken visit

They continue to do what they want, when they want knowing full well there will be no consequences.

[MKHIBEE]

They continue to do what they want, when they want knowing full well there will be no consequences.

Yep, and if you show support for the Palestinians you are an anti semite. The world is ****ed.

[DaveF]

Stick an SS hat on her head rather than a scarf and job done.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815

[Kato]

Stick an SS hat on her head rather than a scarf and job done.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815An imaginary bloke in the sky gave them that land 1000s of years ago. Seems to be a strong argument.

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[MKHIBEE]

Stick an SS hat on her head rather than a scarf and job done.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815

**** of the lowest order

[DaveF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68679482

Not quite accusing Israel of war crimes but not far off. They really should just condemn this appalling Israeli govt loudly and clearly.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68679482

Not quite accusing Israel of war crimes but not far off. They really should just condemn this appalling Israeli govt loudly and clearly.

I'm still struggling to see the difference between this and what the Nazis did in the Warsaw Ghetto.

[JimBHibees]

I'm still struggling to see the difference between this and what the Nazis did in the Warsaw Ghetto.

There isn’t any

[Keith_M]

Stick an SS hat on her head rather than a scarf and job done.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815


I believe the term she should be using is 'Lebensraum'.

She's simply a modern day Nazi.

[MKHIBEE]

I believe the term she should be using is 'Lebensraum'.

She's simply a modern day Nazi..
She is simply a Nazi.In any day

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/30/uk-government-lawyers-say-israel-is-breaking-international-law-claims-top-tory-in-leaked-recording?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Shhhh!


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[lapsedhibee]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/30/uk-government-lawyers-say-israel-is-breaking-international-law-claims-top-tory-in-leaked-recording?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Shhhh!


Sunak's response to that will likely be another speech about his determination not to be pushed around by foreign courts.

[DaveF]

As well as totally destroying the al-Shifa hospital in Gaza, Israel flattens the Iranian consulate in Syria.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68708923

[DaveF]

Another day, another probable war crime committed by Israel in targeting civilian aid workers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-68710515

A UK citizen reported among the dead, probably killed by weapons sold by the UK or US.

Charity has paused it's operations so it's a win / win for Israel as it means they can starve the population just that little bit quicker.

[DaveF]

More aid agencies pausing or stopping food supplies.

Netanyahu and his fellow crackpots will delighted that their murder of these volunteers has done the job.

[Stairway 2 7]

Another day, another probable war crime committed by Israel in targeting civilian aid workers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-68710515

A UK citizen reported among the dead, probably killed by weapons sold by the UK or US.

Charity has paused it's operations so it's a win / win for Israel as it means they can starve the population just that little bit quicker.

Disgusting. Reading Biden is about to agree a £20 billion arms sale to Isreal. It includes fighter jets and attack missles. Why the **** do Israel need fighter jets when they so heavily outgun Palestine

[DaveF]

Disgusting. Reading Biden is about to agree a £20 billion arms sale to Isreal. It includes fighter jets and attack missles. Why the **** do Israel need fighter jets when they so heavily outgun Palestine

So that they can attack Syria, Jordan or whoever else they want?

[Ozyhibby]

Disgusting. Reading Biden is about to agree a £20 billion arms sale to Isreal. It includes fighter jets and attack missles. Why the **** do Israel need fighter jets when they so heavily outgun Palestine

Carry on says Starmer.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Carry on says Starmer.


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Thought he wanted a ceasefire. Not really paid attention to what he's been saying recently. Read the UK had sold £42 million in arms to Israel last year and all defensive. They are basically supplied by the US and Germany who both have billions in sales. 60% of weapon last year to Israel were from the US and 39% from Germany. Need to stop these countries to stop Israel, although obviously too late. Although the thousands of missles fired at Israel I'd still give them defensive weapons but no weapons of attack

[Lendo]

Another day, another probable war crime committed by Israel in targeting civilian aid workers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-68710515

A UK citizen reported among the dead, probably killed by weapons sold by the UK or US.

Charity has paused it's operations so it's a win / win for Israel as it means they can starve the population just that little bit quicker.


It now being reported as three UK citizens having been killed.

[Stairway 2 7]

It now being reported as three UK citizens having been killed.

The papers only seem interested when westerners are killed

[Ozyhibby]

Thought he wanted a ceasefire. Not really paid attention to what he's been saying recently. Read the UK had sold £42 million in arms to Israel last year and all defensive. They are basically supplied by the US and Germany who both have billions in sales. 60% of weapon last year to Israel were from the US and 39% from Germany. Need to stop these countries to stop Israel, although obviously too late. Although the thousands of missles fired at Israel I'd still give them defensive weapons but no weapons of attack

Starmer still in favour of supplying them with weapons. And let’s face it, he only whispered for a ceasefire.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24225801.we-dont-boycott-labour-backs-selling-arms-israel/

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[Stairway 2 7]

Starmer still in favour of supplying them with weapons. And let’s face it, he only whispered for a ceasefire.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24225801.we-dont-boycott-labour-backs-selling-arms-israel/

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That's no Starmer, they should ask Starmer today after this though. He has to call for Germany and the US to stop sending non defensive weapons regardless, its a genocide as it has been for decades. I doubt he will though he'll just tow the line with America

[MKHIBEE]

Starmer still in favour of supplying them with weapons. And let’s face it, he only whispered for a ceasefire.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24225801.we-dont-boycott-labour-backs-selling-arms-israel/

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Shameful. I don’t need any more reasons not to vote Labour but if I did this would be it

[Ozyhibby]

Shameful. I don’t need any more reasons not to vote Labour but if I did this would be it

UK citizens being killed and just a shrug of the shoulder from Sunak and Starmer.


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[MKHIBEE]

UK citizens being killed and just a shrug of the shoulder from Sunak and Starmer.


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No chance they want to upset their Zionist supporters

[Hibrandenburg]

The papers only seem interested when westerners are killed

I'm sure every paper in the world is the same.

[MKHIBEE]

I'm sure every paper in the world is the same.
Every country will operate its own “ hierarchy of death” with cooperation from the media

[Ozyhibby]

Every country will operate its own “ hierarchy of death” with cooperation from the media

Our govt is responsible for our citizens first and foremost. It’s the most important thing they are for. If they are not outraged about another nation killing our citizens then they are failing in their number one duty.


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[MKHIBEE]

Our govt is responsible for our citizens first and foremost. It’s the most important thing they are for. If they are not outraged about another nation killing our citizens then they are failing in their number one duty.


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No argument from me, British citizens are at the top of the hierarchy of death in this country

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/henryriley1/status/1775806395062837718?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1775806889890029641?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

No questions allowed.


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[JimBHibees]

https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1775806889890029641?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

No questions allowed.


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That’s democracy for you

[Hibrandenburg]

https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1775806889890029641?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

No questions allowed.


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Surely he will have to answer questions in the House of Commons. Oh wait a minute!

[Pretty Boy]

Israel seems to be a bit like one of those big mad dogs that some people get and then neglect to discipline or train. The owner deludes themselves that they are in control and then acts all bewildered when their out of control dog goes nuts and attacks someone.

The USA and much of Europe has deluded themselves into believing they can control Israel and that is now being shown to be a myth, Israel is going to continue to do what it wants when it wants and doesn't fear it's supposed masters. I suppose one option that might work would be to stop feeding the dog (by feeding I mean supplying arms not literally trying to starve Israeli citizens) but there is money to be made in war so that is never going to happen.

[Ozyhibby]

That's no Starmer, they should ask Starmer today after this though. He has to call for Germany and the US to stop sending non defensive weapons regardless, its a genocide as it has been for decades. I doubt he will though he'll just tow the line with America

Maybe Starmer is on annual leave?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Maybe Starmer is on annual leave?


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Think they said he approved Lamey the shadow foreign secretaries response on the 3rd

"@DavidLammy
·
Apr 3
.
@UKLabour
’s message to
@David_Cameron
and
@RishiSunak
’s
@Conservatives
is clear. Publish the legal advice now.

If it says there is a clear risk that UK arms might be used in a serious breach of international humanitarian law, it's time to suspend the sale of those arms"





Don't think they should be waiting on legal advice genocide is clear. Even if it's only defensive weapons ie Air defence that I think we should obviously send, our contribution is so tiny (0.1% of arms last year) that they should just say none at all.

Even if they upset them they should ask Germany and the US to stop supplying the 99% of arms that are definitely offensive and killing Palestinians.

[Moulin Yarns]

Year to October 2023 trade between the UK and Israel was £6.4 billion, not a huge amount but is it worth considering a total ban on trade with Israel until they withdraw troops from gaza and Ceasefire is established? Something for the UN to consider?

[Ozyhibby]

Year to October 2023 trade between the UK and Israel was £6.4 billion, not a huge amount but is it worth considering a total ban on trade with Israel until they withdraw troops from gaza and Ceasefire is established? Something for the UN to consider?

We can’t even agree to stop arming them. Isreal should have been sanctioned years ago the same way South Africa was. And we should be boycotting Israeli companies.


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[Keith_M]

If you think it's difficult to get the media or politicians in the UK to criticise Israel's actions, you should watch the German news.

They supply nearly 40% of all Israel's offensive weapons, being used to murder innocent civilians and anybody else that takes their fancy, and almost complete silence.

As someone that loves Germany, and normally stands up for them at every opportunity, I find this deeply disturbing.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's a big furore around Owen Jones saying German guilt about the holocaust is enabling a current day genocide but I understand. Germans are probably my favourite people and the way they deal with the holocaust is fantastic, face on. In every cities there are memorials and a world away from our chest beating spitfire pish.

Olaf Scholz said defending Israel is Germanys
raison d'etre I understand that. Israel has to be able to defend itself or it will get wiped out Germany could make that it's mission. Israel has went beyond that for 50 years its not a plucky Ukraine fighting for its life its on the offensive committed to genocide of a smaller partner. As we've seen with the US only giving Ukraine a tiny and very specific arsenal of weapons that can't hit Russia, the same must be done to Israel. Germany the US and the UK can't give weapons that are being used with no thought of consequence. I also agree with no trade with Israel or allowing them into international events and community. They had the right to destroy Hamas even though they have created the animal through genocide, they didn't have the right to destroy Gaza and its children.

[DaveF]

Israel defence minister speaking to soldiers says "Talks towards a deal for a temporary ceasefire continue in Egypt via Egyptian and Qatari mediators.

"There will be difficult decisions and we will be ready to pay the price in order to get the hostages back, and then return to fighting,” Gallant said"

Yep, that sounds reasonable. You give us all the hostages and then we come back and flatten / kill everything and everyone. What's not to like.

The images of destruction from Khan Younis is similar to the scorched earth policy employed by Russia in Grozny or the SS at their peak.

[MKHIBEE]

Israel defence minister speaking to soldiers says "Talks towards a deal for a temporary ceasefire continue in Egypt via Egyptian and Qatari mediators.

"There will be difficult decisions and we will be ready to pay the price in order to get the hostages back, and then return to fighting,” Gallant said"

Yep, that sounds reasonable. You give us all the hostages and then we come back and flatten / kill everything and everyone. What's not to like.

The images of destruction from Khan Younis is similar to the scorched earth policy employed by Russia in Grozny or the SS at their peak.
And all the while our government still continues to allow arms from this country to end up in Israel. The amount of blood on their hands is overwhelming

[MKHIBEE]

A court has ruled that anti Zionism does not equate to antisemitism. No doubt this will upset many who cry antisemitism at the merest hint of protest against Zionism

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/4/8/a-victory-for-anti-zionists-in-the-uk

[MKHIBEE]

Germany is putting its case against its part in genocide by Israel at the International Court of Justice. It is maintaining that the fight is not against civilians in Gaza. With over 30000 dead that doesn’t stack up to anything but slaughter of innocents. That’s before you take other things into account.

[Stairway 2 7]

Biden cuts trip to Delaware short as it looks like Iran is going to strike Israel. They have got what they wanted in funding the Hamas attack in October. The poor people of Palestine were the cost thanks to the genocidal Israeli government.

I wouldn't mind if they were striking military equipment but hopefully no Israeli civilians suffer

[judas]

Starmer still in favour of supplying them with weapons. And let’s face it, he only whispered for a ceasefire.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24225801.we-dont-boycott-labour-backs-selling-arms-israel/

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If no one supplies Israel with weapons, do you think Iran will stop sending weapons to its proxies?

[Stairway 2 7]

US officials say Iran has launched dozens of drones that are now flying over Iraq towards Israel

[Stairway 2 7]

Quite alot happening. Iranian state tv confirms the drones and videos of Shahed drones are online flying in Iraq. They also say the Houthis have launched drones from the south.
Israeli official tells the axios news agency they are seeing over 100 drones coming towards them and they will take a few hours.

Jordanian government says it will strike down any drones heading to Israel, if they come into their airspace

[Stairway 2 7]

So a very successful mission jointly from Israeli, US, Saudi, UK and Jordanian airforces. Almost all missles and drones shot down in Jordan with none hitting Israel. If f35s were given to Ukraine instead of appeasement there would be thousands less dead it seems. 7 cruise missles hit targets outside Israel but everything else shot down from a massive attempt. Will need to see if there will be retaliation, I'm fearful there will be. If only Palestine had defenses

185/185 or (100%) of UAV's intercepted.
103/110 or (93.6%) of Surface to Surface Missiles intercepted.
36/36 or (100%) of Cruise Missiles intercepted

[stokesmessiah]

So a very successful mission jointly from Israeli, US, Saudi, UK and Jordanian airforces. Almost all missles and drones shot down in Jordan with none hitting Israel. If f35s were given to Ukraine instead of appeasement there would be thousands less dead it seems. 7 cruise missles hit targets outside Israel but everything else shot down from a massive attempt. Will need to see if there will be retaliation, I'm fearful there will be. If only Palestine had defenses

185/185 or (100%) of UAV's intercepted.
103/110 or (93.6%) of Surface to Surface Missiles intercepted.
36/36 or (100%) of Cruise Missiles intercepted

Where are you getting those numbers from?

[Stairway 2 7]

Where are you getting those numbers from?

Oren Liebermann on CNN quoting US officials, nor sure the accuracy. He says US forces say they confirmed they shot over 70 drones and 3 balistic missles over Jordan. UK, Saudi,
Jordanian and Israeli take downs too, dozens of videos of iron dome air defenses working all night. IDF tweeted they shot down 99% of hundreds of drones but no exact figures.

[Stairway 2 7]

Where are you getting those numbers from?

NY Times saying Israel quoting them the same figures 331

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/13/world/israel-iran-gaza-war-news

[stokesmessiah]

NY Times saying Israel quoting them the same figures 331

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/13/world/israel-iran-gaza-war-news

Thanks for your responses. I was watching it unfold online last night….there seemed to be footage of quite a lot of hits, but it was on X so I was taking it with a bag of salt.

[Stairway 2 7]

Thanks for your responses. I was watching it unfold online last night….there seemed to be footage of quite a lot of hits, but it was on X so I was taking it with a bag of salt.

Yeah I saw pictures of a fire in Tehran, the pictures were confirmed from 2021. Think a lot of accounts just want to be first with news before checking it elsewhere.

One missle did hit Jordan after being shot down and another in Iraq that I've seen videos of. Loads of explosions in the sky from air defenses too.

NBC are saying that Biden wants Israel to take this as a win and not retaliate rashly, says US has confirmed it won't take part in offensive strikes on Iran. Think Netanyahu will appease the right wing and attack though

[Moulin Yarns]

My question is, why is the UK defending Israel? should we get drawn into a middle east conflict? Why did we not do that to protect the people of gaza?

[Stairway 2 7]

My question is, why is the UK defending Israel? should we get drawn into a middle east conflict? Why did we not do that to protect the people of gaza?

Of course UK should defend Israel so is Muslim countries like SA and Jordan. We should defend other countries we don't too but that is separate Ukraine, Palestine, Syria. The reason why, is Iran would raise Israel to the ground just like the evil Israeli government are doing in Palestine. Germany and the US should stop giving Israel offensive weapons as they are genocidal but the UK should still send defensive weapons.

Institute for the study of war says almost 9000 rockets have been fired at Israel since October 7th mostly unguided bombs, IDF says over 12k. Only a warped person would want the hundreds of thousands of deaths that could cause without defences

[Bristolhibby]

Of course UK should defend Israel so is Muslim countries like SA and Jordan. We should defend other countries we don't too but that is separate Ukraine, Palestine, Syria. The reason why, is Iran would raise Israel to the ground just like the evil Israeli government are doing in Palestine. Germany and the US should stop giving Israel offensive weapons as they are genocidal but the UK should still send defensive weapons.

Institute for the study of war says almost 9000 rockets have been fired at Israel since October 7th mostly unguided bombs, IDF says over 12k. Only a warped person would want the hundreds of thousands of deaths that could cause without defences

Funnily enough it’s more like the other way round. Britain’s Sky Sabre system is based on Iron Dome and delivered by Israeli defence company Rafael. They also produce a number of counter drone technologies for the global market.

https://des.mod.uk/des-sky-sabre-british-army-air-defence/

I guess it’s one of the reasons we don’t stop trading with Isreal.

J

[Stairway 2 7]

Funnily enough it’s more like the other way round. Britain’s Sky Sabre system is based on Iron Dome and delivered by Israeli defence company Rafael. They also produce a number of counter drone technologies for the global market.

https://des.mod.uk/des-sky-sabre-british-army-air-defence/

I guess it’s one of the reasons we don’t stop trading with Isreal.

J

It wasn't air defenses most were downed by jets, it was the RAF that shot the missles down using fighter jets this time supposedly 30 missles, along with France, US, Jordan and Saudi. We sent air to air defenses previously although the number is tiny, it's basically Germany and the US that arms Israel. This is what the RAF should be used for in joint efforts. That's separate from the fact we are not interested when it's Iranian drones hitting Ukraine or Israeli missles hitting Palestine

We just spent 500 million on missle defense systems from America. 2 years ago I'd say it was a disgusting waste of money, I'd be wrong. These drones will get cheaper and fly further every year

[JimBHibees]

My question is, why is the UK defending Israel? should we get drawn into a middle east conflict? Why did we not do that to protect the people of gaza?

My exact thought though appreciate may not be aware of full context of attack

[marinello59]

My question is, why is the UK defending Israel? should we get drawn into a middle east conflict? Why did we not do that to protect the people of gaza?

That would require troops on the ground. Are you suggesting we have British soldiers taking on Israeli forces alongside Hamas? And how would that help the innocent civilians caught up in this tragedy?

[Bristolhibby]

It wasn't air defenses most were downed by jets, it was the RAF that shot the missles down using fighter jets this time supposedly 30 missles, along with France, US, Jordan and Saudi. We sent air to air defenses previously although the number is tiny, it's basically Germany and the US that arms Israel. This is what the RAF should be used for in joint efforts. That's separate from the fact we are not interested when it's Iranian drones hitting Ukraine or Israeli missles hitting Palestine

We just spent 500 million on missle defense systems from America. 2 years ago I'd say it was a disgusting waste of money, I'd be wrong. These drones will get cheaper and fly further every year

No, I’m just saying we buy a lot of military “stuff” from the Israelis too. Not just one way. I doubt the U.K. would want to risk our new air defence system by cutting off Israeli support.

J

[Pretty Boy]

Did Iran know their attack would be so easily foiled? You'd have to expect they must have, they have been in a proxy war with Israel for years so will be more than aware what they are up against.

A bit of sabre rattling trying to provoke a response to the response?

The issue now seems to be that neither side can really back down without losing face. With egomaniacs and extremists running the show in both countries it's exceptionally volatile.

[Stairway 2 7]

No, I’m just saying we buy a lot of military “stuff” from the Israelis too. Not just one way. I doubt the U.K. would want to risk our new air defence system by cutting off Israeli support.

J

Uk doesn't need Israeli equipment we could switch to S Korean, US Turkish ect and we've got nato. I don't think that's why we helped. It's the similar broad coalition that has been striking Iranian proxies for months just a continuation of what we've been doing. It shouldn't be a surprise we helped it's why we can't shoot cruise missles going to Ukraine or when Russia flattened Aleppo with them.

[Moulin Yarns]

That would require troops on the ground. Are you suggesting we have British soldiers taking on Israeli forces alongside Hamas? And how would that help the innocent civilians caught up in this tragedy?

Not at all. My thoughts are why the RAF are involved in shooting down drones and missiles fired from one foreign country into another, when it chooses not to do the same with missiles and drones to and from Israel and Palestine, or Russia and Ukraine?? It just seems to be very selective.

[marinello59]

Not at all. My thoughts are why the RAF are involved in shooting down drones and missiles fired from one foreign country into another, when it chooses not to do the same with missiles and drones to and from Israel and Palestine, or Russia and Ukraine?? It just seems to be very selective.

It’s not that hard if you move beyond the luxury of adopting a simple black or white viewpoint from our place of safety here
Every military action has risks and consequences, it’s worthwhile pausing and thinking about what they may be and whether that action would be seen as defensive or offensive.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not at all. My thoughts are why the RAF are involved in shooting down drones and missiles fired from one foreign country into another, when it chooses not to do the same with missiles and drones to and from Israel and Palestine, or Russia and Ukraine?? It just seems to be very selective.

Wouldn't be able to shoot them down going to Palestine as they are completely different weapons. They are short distance across the border shot from jets and mlrs. The cruise missles Iran shot took 20 minutes to travel and the drones about 8 hours. As for Ukraine appeasement just like every other decision same for Syria

[Moulin Yarns]

I wonder if our trade with Israel compared to our trade with Iran may have some bearing?

[neil7908]

Did Iran know their attack would be so easily foiled? You'd have to expect they must have, they have been in a proxy war with Israel for years so will be more than aware what they are up against.

A bit of sabre rattling trying to provoke a response to the response?

The issue now seems to be that neither side can really back down without losing face. With egomaniacs and extremists running the show in both countries it's exceptionally volatile.

Iran could have struck in a number of ways. The fact they chose something so easily repelled, and that is was so clearly coming makes me wonder if they actually want all out war. They also made statements saying they consider the matter closed.

Imo for domestic reasons they had to take some action after the Israeli consulate bombing. If not they would look weak and it would potentially endanger the regime.

So they've taken action but I suspect they now would be quite happy to go back to the proxy war that's been playing out for years.

[Stairway 2 7]

I wonder if our trade with Israel compared to our trade with Iran may have some bearing?

Our trade with Russia dwarfed our trade with Israel and Ukraine so I don't think that stacks up

[Hibrandenburg]

Iran could have struck in a number of ways. The fact they chose something so easily repelled, and that is was so clearly coming makes me wonder if they actually want all out war. They also made statements saying they consider the matter closed.

Imo for domestic reasons they had to take some action after the Israeli consulate bombing. If not they would look weak and it would potentially endanger the regime.

So they've taken action but I suspect they now would be quite happy to go back to the proxy war that's been playing out for years.

The UN should have taken action against Israel. Surely you can't go bombing diplomatic missions of your enemies in foreign countries without consequences, no matter who you might think is in the building. That act of aggression alone makes Israel no better than other terrorist states.

[Stairway 2 7]

Did Iran know their attack would be so easily foiled? You'd have to expect they must have, they have been in a proxy war with Israel for years so will be more than aware what they are up against.

A bit of sabre rattling trying to provoke a response to the response?

The issue now seems to be that neither side can really back down without losing face. With egomaniacs and extremists running the show in both countries it's exceptionally volatile.

From what I've read from commentators in the area this wasn't the usual token drone strike to signal it was an unprecedented attack. When Qassem Soleimani was assassinated the fired 15 missles at US bases, when they did a retaliation attack on Saudi in 2019s aramco attack it was 25 drones and missiles, they fired over 300 at Israel including 120 ballistic missles without warning and 20 minutes to impact.

They tried to overwhelm Israels air defenses. When their drones strike Ukraine they usually get 10% through so would have hoped for some hits. I think they were surprised at the fact Saudi and Jordanian jets were hitting before they even got to Israel and allowing us jets into their airspace.

I agree with alot of this analysis. Israels air defenses couldn't cope on its own against hezbollah and Iranian strikes of hundreds of drones and rockets. Also on the power of having nuclear weapons. If you get appeasement and support if you have them, more and more nations are going to try and get them

https://twitter.com/FRHoffmann1/status/1779439439204565373

[Stairway 2 7]

Saudi Arabian Royal family spokesman says to the state broadcaster than Iran has engineered the war in gaza to push the ending of growing normalisation of relations from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and Israel. They are probably right there is no other reason Hamas would have carried out the suicidal slaughter in October. Israel is just doing as its always done utter genocide. Everyone let Iran fund proxies whilst turning a blind eye and crossing their fingers

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/

[Ozyhibby]

Saudi Arabian Royal family spokesman says to the state broadcaster than Iran has engineered the war in gaza to push the ending of growing normalisation of relations from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and Israel. They are probably right there is no other reason Hamas would have carried out the suicidal slaughter in October. Israel is just doing as its always done utter genocide. Everyone let Iran fund proxies whilst turning a blind eye and crossing their fingers

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/

The reality is that all Iran can do is use proxies. They have been sanctioned since 1979. Their air force and Navy would be annihilated by any one of their neighbours. It is in worse condition than the Russians. Their drones are pretty easily stopped given their 8 hour fly time. They have a large standing army but that’s mostly needed to keep the regime in power domestically. And they don’t share a border with Isreal. They have no other way of attacking Isreal than what they just tried and it was easily dealt with. The fact is that Iran has no way of escalating from here other than closing the straight of Hormuz. In any war, Iran will lose and lose quickly.


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[Bristolhibby]

The UN should have taken action against Israel. Surely you can't go bombing diplomatic missions of your enemies in foreign countries without consequences, no matter who you might think is in the building. That act of aggression alone makes Israel no better than other terrorist states.

The UN Security Council contains us, America, China and Russia as permanent members. Every move either direction gets vetoed and blocked.

J

[cabbageandribs1875]

state TV in Iran were showing a clip of a huge fire in Israel they said that had been hit by a missile

it was actually a video clip of a fire in Chile in February

[Kato]

state TV in Iran were showing a clip of a huge fire in Israel they said that had been hit by a missile

it was actually a video clip of a fire in Chile in FebruarySure it wasn't Niddrie?

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[neil7908]

The UN should have taken action against Israel. Surely you can't go bombing diplomatic missions of your enemies in foreign countries without consequences, no matter who you might think is in the building. That act of aggression alone makes Israel no better than other terrorist states.

I agree completely. The Iranian regime are horrendous but one of the few accepted international norms amongst good good actors is that consulates are untouchable.

It's usually militia, rouge states and terrorists that carry out attacks like that.

It was so obviously an attempt by the Israeli's to provoke Iran, distract from Gaza and get the West back on side. And sadly it's worked.

[Ozyhibby]

Great article on how misinformation is spread online.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-15/how-misinformation-spread-after-bondi-junction-stabbing/103708210

Apologies, wrong thread.

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[Stairway 2 7]

Great article on how misinformation is spread online.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-15/how-misinformation-spread-after-bondi-junction-stabbing/103708210

Apologies, wrong thread.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's mad and must have been horrifying for Cohen. You can expect that from the troll accounts but utterly shocking for 7 news to do that. JHB just shows herself up as expected

[JimBHibees]

The UN Security Council contains us, America, China and Russia as permanent members. Every move either direction gets vetoed and blocked.

J

France?

[Lendo]

That's mad and must have been horrifying for Cohen. You can expect that from the troll accounts but utterly shocking for 7 news to do that. JHB just shows herself up as expected

Not just JHB too, Rachel Riley seems to have become utter nutjob too.

[MKHIBEE]

Not just JHB too, Rachel Riley seems to have become utter nutjob too.

She is just a vile woman.

[Bristolhibby]

France?

Not sure what their veto record has been.

J

[MKHIBEE]

Not sure what their veto record has been.

J
I know it’s Wikipedia but…………

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vetoed_United_Nations_Security_Council_res olutions

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1780695415396192454?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

The thinking of the Isreali govt. The think of the Palestinians as sub-human.


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[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1780695415396192454?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

The thinking of the Isreali govt. The think of the Palestinians as sub-human.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
They think and treat them as sub humans and the west lets them. Western governments are complicit in the genocide of the Palestinian people. Shameful and unforgivable.

[JimBHibees]

.
They think and treat them as sub humans and the west lets them. Western governments are complicit in the genocide of the Palestinian people. Shameful and unforgivable.

Impossible to argue with this conclusion. Can remember when think it was ironically under Blair talk about an ethical foreign policy. Don’t hear much chat of that now.

[MKHIBEE]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/23/as-more-bodies-found-un-human-rights-chief-horrified-by-gaza-mass-graves

More war crimes being commited by the west’s friends. Perhaps time to start helping the Palestinians fight this evil regime?

[grunt]

BREAKING: Tamir Morag of Channel 14 reports that the Israeli government has received word that the top echelon of the Israeli government and IDF will receive idictments from the ICC within the next week or so.

The individuals to be indicated include Netanyahu, Gallant, and Halevi. But the list will not stop there. They will likely be charged with crimes against humanity.

Despite his bravado about the ICC, I am hearing from sources that Netanyahu is very nervous about the high likelihood that they will issue arrest warrants. At this point, it appears that that is inevitable.

While the ICC cannot arrest anyone, all court members are obligated to hand over individuals with warrants against them. So if served, that could stop anyone served from going to 124 countries. Basically, all important nations on earth aside from the United States, China, India, and a few Arab states (and Israel, of course).

Most importantly, it would be a nightmare for Israel's international image. Russia and Sudan have had warrants issued for their leaders. But no Western democracy ever has. This is yet another piece of diplomatic fallout from the war. The clock the international community set for this conflict long expired.

Now, Israel finds itself fighting in the ICJ and soon the ICC. This will embroil Israel in a multi-year legal and diplomatic nightmare. Netanyahu is reportedly very concerned about this and thinks he can avoid some of these warrants by delaying an invasion of Rafah even further. That seems to be the main consideration right now—stopping an operation—far more than the US or Egypt.

[MKHIBEE]

BREAKING: Tamir Morag of Channel 14 reports that the Israeli government has received word that the top echelon of the Israeli government and IDF will receive idictments from the ICC within the next week or so.

The individuals to be indicated include Netanyahu, Gallant, and Halevi. But the list will not stop there. They will likely be charged with crimes against humanity.

Despite his bravado about the ICC, I am hearing from sources that Netanyahu is very nervous about the high likelihood that they will issue arrest warrants. At this point, it appears that that is inevitable.

While the ICC cannot arrest anyone, all court members are obligated to hand over individuals with warrants against them. So if served, that could stop anyone served from going to 124 countries. Basically, all important nations on earth aside from the United States, China, India, and a few Arab states (and Israel, of course).




Most importantly, it would be a nightmare for Israel's international image. Russia and Sudan have had warrants issued for their leaders. But no Western democracy ever has. This is yet another piece of diplomatic fallout from the war. The clock the international community set for this conflict long expired.

Now, Israel finds itself fighting in the ICJ and soon the ICC. This will embroil Israel in a multi-year legal and diplomatic nightmare. Netanyahu is reportedly very concerned about this and thinks he can avoid some of these warrants by delaying an invasion of Rafah even further. That seems to be the main consideration right now—stopping an operation—far more than the US or Egypt.

Some good news on the Israeli/ Gaza front at last, although it will likely drag in for years until it reaches a conclusion.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/beckettunite/status/1787701813984047249?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting article looking at the possible scenarios of Hamas post this current war. There are rumours of a Qatari, Saudi, US peaceforce going in when Israel go out, although I'm unsure how likely that is

If Ali Khamanei and Netanyahu were blootered that would help

https://en.majalla.com/node/316201/opinion/hamas-post-gaza-war-future-scenarios-and-past-parallels

[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/beckettunite/status/1787701813984047249?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Our government and biggest opposition party are genocide apologists and have the blood of thousands on their hands. And they will be asking the public to vote for them in a few months. A very sad state of affairs.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/jonathan_k_cook/status/1788532607740739918?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Well done Trinity.[emoji122]


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[Just Alf]

https://x.com/jonathan_k_cook/status/1788532607740739918?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Well done Trinity.[emoji122]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhat have they done?

[Bristolhibby]

What have they done?

Forced a peaceful change in policy from their university.

Trinity College, Dublin, agrees to pulls its investments from companies helping Israel brutalise the Palestinian people. Students respond by packing up their encampment.

A college statement reads: 'We are in solidarity with the students in our horror of what is happening in Gaza.'

Does that mean sending in riot police to beat up and arrest the protesters isn't the only available option? What a strange thought.

J

[Just Alf]

Forced a peaceful change in policy from their university.

Trinity College, Dublin, agrees to pulls its investments from companies helping Israel brutalise the Palestinian people. Students respond by packing up their encampment.

A college statement reads: 'We are in solidarity with the students in our horror of what is happening in Gaza.'

Does that mean sending in riot police to beat up and arrest the protesters isn't the only available option? What a strange thought.

JThanks for that, and definitely good to see happening :agree:

[MKHIBEE]

Thanks for that, and definitely good to see happening :agree:

Hopefully it will be repeated in universities across the UK but I won’t hold my breath. Protestors are more likely to be arrested on a crime of anti semitism

[JimBHibees]

Some good news on the Israeli/ Gaza front at last, although it will likely drag in for years until it reaches a conclusion.

What is ICC?

[Ozyhibby]

Hopefully it will be repeated in universities across the UK but I won’t hold my breath. Protestors are more likely to be arrested on a crime of anti semitism

Are all the people protesting the war in Isreal anti-semites as well?[emoji2369]


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[Ozyhibby]

Hopefully it will be repeated in universities across the UK but I won’t hold my breath. Protestors are more likely to be arrested on a crime of anti semitism

Are all the people protesting the war in Isreal anti-semites as well?[emoji2369]


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[Keith_M]

Are all the people protesting the war in Isreal anti-semites as well?[emoji2369]


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I think the derogatory phrase used in their case is 'Self Hating Jews' (https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/self-hating-jews/).

[MKHIBEE]

Are all the people protesting the war in Isreal anti-semites as well?[emoji2369]


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Those protesting against the war in the UK aren’t so there’s no reason why they should be. Others may see it differently

[Hibs4185]

I’d have money on Israel winning the Eurovision tonight. Seems to be a lot of people who wouldn’t normally vote, downloading the app and sharing it.

They may come last or they may win, will be interesting to gauge opinion.

[Keith_M]

I’d have money on Israel winning the Eurovision tonight. Seems to be a lot of people who wouldn’t normally vote, downloading the app and sharing it.

They may come last or they may win, will be interesting to gauge opinion.


There's some very strange voting patterns happening, particularly in Italy.

I think it's going to be interesting to find out what really happened with the Dutch Eurovision contestant, who was thrown out for alleged 'inappropriate behavior'.

[grunt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo


ICC prosecutor seeks arrest of Israeli and Hamas leaders


--------------------------------

Biden calls ICC decision 'outrageous'

We're now hearing from US President Joe Biden, who calls the International Criminal Court (ICC) chief prosecutor's application for arrest warrants against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defence Minister Yoav Gallant "outrageous".

Here's Biden's statement in full:

The ICC prosecutor’s application for arrest warrants against Israeli leaders is outrageous.
And let me be clear: whatever this prosecutor might imply, there is no equivalence — none — between Israel and Hamas.
We will always stand with Israel against threats to its security."

--------------------------------

UK govt opposes ICC seeking arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu & Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant.

FCDO: “We don't believe that seeking warrants will help get hostages out, get aid in, or deliver a sustainable ceasefire. This remains the UK’s priority.”

[Stairway 2 7]

Scenes out of Rafah are horrendous Netanyahu should be in the Hague for decades of war crimes

[DaveF]

Scenes out of Rafah are horrendous Netanyahu should be in the Hague for decades of war crimes

Biden has went very quiet on his rafah stance. Or has he just forgotten he ever had one

[Ozyhibby]

Biden has went very quiet on his rafah stance. Or has he just forgotten he ever had one

Starmer will be chuffed. Almost as good as starving them or cutting their water supply.


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[DaveF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjjj26d0eqxo

Ach, just a wee mistake.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/tadhghickey/status/1750189804187169053?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[DaveF]

Biden outlining a new proposed ceasefire, which has been approved by Israel.

On the face of it, seems like a good deal (albeit what homes the Palestinian people return to is, well, pointless)

Over to hamas.

Would be nice if the west bank settler violence and constant breaches of international law were also addressed but one step at a time I suppose.

[DaveF]

More dead women and children as Israel bombs a UN school housing displaced people - under the usual excuse of it's a Hamas command post.

How's that red line of yours, Sleepy Joe?

[Keith_M]

More dead women and children as Israel bombs a UN school housing displaced people - under the usual excuse of it's a Hamas command post.

How's that red line of yours, Sleepy Joe?


And they did it using US supplied missiles.


Netanyahu and his government are clearly just stringing Biden along with tales of peace plans. They have no intention of ending these atrocities until it suits them.

[Ozyhibby]

Gantz resigns. Calls for an election.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Bild in Germany and Politico in the US are reporting Israel will send an ultimatum to hezbollah in the next few days and are ready to invade at the end of July. They feel the Gaza operation/genocide has finished and are ready to move on to Lebanon, more death

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/27/us-intelligence-israel-hezbollah-war-00165338

[DaveF]

Meanwhile, the Israeli genocide goes on.

Safe zones eh...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyx0qdkn45eo

[Keith_M]

Meanwhile, the Israeli genocide goes on.

Safe zones eh...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyx0qdkn45eo


Any response to this from Biden, Starmer, et al?

Or are yet more Palestinians deaths at the hands of their Israeli mates so insignificant?

[DaveF]

Top UN court rules that Israeli occupation of Palestinian land is illegal.

Another thing that will, of course, be completely ignored.

[Stairway 2 7]

Starmer apparently called Netanyahu for a ceasefire and said UK believes in a two state solution, not that he will care in any way what we say

Less performative he has reversed the last governments ban on aid to UNRWA

[cabbageandribs1875]

Israel hits back at the Houthis in Yemen https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1814708574888628662

[Stairway 2 7]

UK has dropped its challenge to the ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders, Starmer calls for a ceasefire and a two state solution. Netanyahu won't care a jot though as he seems to have had a lovely time in Washington and they and Germany send 99% of their import weapons, they also have a massive arms industry themselves. I've no idea what stops this, the US probably has the best chance but even then I'm dubious that they can or want to

[Ozyhibby]

UK has dropped its challenge to the ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders, Starmer calls for a ceasefire and a two state solution. Netanyahu won't care a jot though as he seems to have had a lovely time in Washington and they and Germany send 99% of their import weapons, they also have a massive arms industry themselves. I've no idea what stops this, the US probably has the best chance but even then I'm dubious that they can or want to

I think Harris will be stronger in dealing with them.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I think Harris will be stronger in dealing with them.Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHow so. Trump won't. I watched a BBC storyvile on evangelical Christians in the US. Showed how a section of the Republicans are embedded in evangelical Christianity. They think Israel has a right to the whole of Israel and Jerusalem. Showed Trump taking part in prayer breakfasts with these nutters https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001z96s

[DaveF]

Israel kills Ismael Haniyah while he was in Tehran. Added to the attempted hit in Beirut on Hezbollah, they appear determined to bring all out war, no matter how many innocent civilians are killed along the way.

[Ozyhibby]

Israel kills Ismael Haniyah while he was in Tehran. Added to the attempted hit in Beirut on Hezbollah, they appear determined to bring all out war, no matter how many innocent civilians are killed along the way.

Don’t think there will ever be an all out war, just a continuation of the proxy war with Hezbollah. The two countries are too far apart to directly engage, so it will just be missile attacks from afar.


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[Ozyhibby]

Israel kills Ismael Haniyah while he was in Tehran. Added to the attempted hit in Beirut on Hezbollah, they appear determined to bring all out war, no matter how many innocent civilians are killed along the way.

Isreal deny it was them? Interesting development.


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[Lendo]

Isreal deny it was them? Interesting development.


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Where are you seeing an Israeli denial? I can’t find any reference to this.

[tamig]

Isreal deny it was them? Interesting development.


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As of now, Israel have still not passed comment on the incident.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/scotnational/status/1818986643119866285?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Unlikely to be many protests at St. Andrews.


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[Keith_M]

https://x.com/scotnational/status/1818986643119866285?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Unlikely to be many protests at St. Andrews.


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'Stella Maris said Palestinians suffer 'apartheid' - but a report said her statement caused 'anxiety and fear' for some Jewish students.'.


Really?

Palestinians are suffering the actual apartheid, but the feelings of some unnamed 'Jewish Students' is what really matters

:rolleyes:

[JimBHibees]

'Stella Maris said Palestinians suffer 'apartheid' - but a report said her statement caused 'anxiety and fear' for some Jewish students.'.


Really?

Palestinians are suffering the actual apartheid, but the feelings of some unnamed 'Jewish Students' is what really matters

:rolleyes:

Why would it? It is the truth

[DaveF]

Not content with their genocide in Gaza, the Israeli killing machine has now set upon the West Bank.

[Keith_M]

Not content with their genocide in Gaza, the Israeli killing machine has now set upon the West Bank.


"Since Israel launched its war on Gaza, Israeli army raids have become a nightly occurrence in towns and villages in the West Bank, with Israeli soldiers and settlers killing at least 646 Palestinians, including 148 children, and injuring more than 5,400, Palestinian health officials have said."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/16/israel-kills-more-than-500-palestinians-in-the-west-bank-since-october-7

"State-backed settler violence increased. In the Negev/Naqab in southern Israel, Israeli forces continued to demolish Bedouin homes and whole villages, including one village for the 222nd time. In the West Bank, Israeli policing operations were the most lethal since 2005, with 110 Palestinian children among those killed. Detentions of Palestinians without charge or trial reached record levels."

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/report-israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/

[Bristolhibby]

Israeli Trade Unions and workers staging a general strike to get the deal over the line, get the hostages back and end the killing.

Good on the Unions. ✊🏻

J

[DaveF]

Mass amount of injuries as Israel infiltrate and detonate explosives inserted into pagers used by Hezbollah.

[Andy Bee]

Mass amount of injuries as Israel infiltrate and detonate explosives inserted into pagers used by Hezbollah.

I've just been reading about this, wasn't sure if it was a windup or not but seems it's true. Israel are blowing up pagers in the pockets of Hezbollah operatives. Over 3000 casualties so far.

[Stairway 2 7]

That's one of the craziest stories I've ever seen, I'd think it was unrealistic if it was in Hollywood

[Ozyhibby]

That's one of the craziest stories I've ever seen, I'd think it was unrealistic if it was in Hollywood

Conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with this.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

Iranian Ambassador to Lebanon also wounded, Mmm wonder why he had a Hezbollah Pager :rolleyes:

[Paul1642]

That's one of the craziest stories I've ever seen, I'd think it was unrealistic if it was in Hollywood

Couldn’t agree more. The most bizarre major news headline I can think of. Genuinely have no idea how it’s been done.

It’s like a modern version of ww2 exploding pigeons and anti tank dogs expect it’s actually worked beyond perfect.

[tamig]

Iranian Ambassador to Lebanon also wounded, Mmm wonder why he had a Hezbollah Pager :rolleyes:

Could have been standing beside one of them in a shop or something. I’m sure they don’t walk around wearing badges.

[tamig]

Conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with this.


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In what way?

[Stairway 2 7]

Could have been standing beside one of them in a shop or something. I’m sure they don’t walk around wearing badges.

From the cctv videos I've seen of 3 attacks no one standing right next to the people were hurt, just bad groin injuries to the person with the pager on his belt.

Lebanese saying 3300 hezbollah injured with 600 critical. Must be up there with the most successful intelligence agency op ever, still can barely believe it. They must have infiltrated the factory or something

[Stairway 2 7]

Sky Arabia and Al Jazeera saying 20 gram of explosive was placed on the battery of each pager

[cabbageandribs1875]

Could have been standing beside one of them in a shop or something. I’m sure they don’t walk around wearing badges.


jeez how so terribly unlucky if he was just standing next to a terrorist huh

[tamig]

jeez how so terribly unlucky if he was just standing next to a terrorist huh

You believe what you want.

[Keith_M]

jeez how so terribly unlucky if he was just standing next to a terrorist huh


Considering a 13 year old girl has died in those exact circumstances, then it's not exactly impossible.

So far, there are a reported 3,000 people injured. They can't all be terrorists.

[tamig]

From the cctv videos I've seen of 3 attacks no one standing right next to the people were hurt, just bad groin injuries to the person with the pager on his belt.

Lebanese saying 3300 hezbollah injured with 600 critical. Must be up there with the most successful intelligence agency op ever, still can barely believe it. They must have infiltrated the factory or something
I’m prepared to give the benefit of the doubt in the example cabbageandribs was talking about. Maybe the ambassador guy was a dodgy character - but equally he could have been an innocent bystander. It all depends where the pager was when it blew up.

[Hibrandenburg]

Sky Arabia and Al Jazeera saying 20 gram of explosive was placed on the battery of each pager

Has to be quite sophisticated. Whatever triggered the explosion did it simultaneously. Either they were all programmed to explode at the same time or they were detonated remotely, either way it's evil genius and the planning to pull something like this off is incredible.

[tamig]

Has to be quite sophisticated. Whatever triggered the explosion did it simultaneously. Either they were all programmed to explode at the same time or they were detonated remotely, either way it's evil genius and the planning to pull something like this off is incredible.

They’re talking about an alphanumeric text message having been sent simultaneously acting as the trigger.

[The Tubs]

Has to be quite sophisticated. Whatever triggered the explosion did it simultaneously. Either they were all programmed to explode at the same time or they were detonated remotely, either way it's evil genius and the planning to pull something like this off is incredible.

The electronics bit is probably fairly simple. The difficult bit is how they managed to get these people to carry explosives around with them.

[Hibrandenburg]

They’re talking about an alphanumeric text message having been sent simultaneously acting as the trigger.

These pagers will have been receiving messages before the explosion, that one particular message was the one that detonated the devices takes the scam to a whole new level of sophistication.

[The Tubs]

These pagers will have been receiving messages before the explosion, that one particular message was the one that detonated the devices takes the scam to a whole new level of sophistication.

i don't know a lot about pagers but there's probably some command to action a specific pin the would be attached to the explosive. If you have an explosive that's volatile enough but sufficiently isolated from the rest of the electronics, it should be fairly robust.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwyl9048gx8t

Yet more atrocities by Israel!!

[Pretty Boy]

The video the BBC showed of the explosion in the fruit shop with young children nearby, children who were evidently terrified and screaming, was heartbreaking stuff.

All the killing in this war, indeed any war, is wrong. The issue here is that indiscriminate killing and maiming on one side is decried as terrorism whilst on the other it's condoned by western leaders (and it appears much of the population) and the collateral damage of thousands of Palestinians and now Lebanese is a price worth paying.

[Hibrandenburg]

The video the BBC showed of the explosion in the fruit shop with young children nearby, children who were evidently terrified and screaming, was heartbreaking stuff.

All the killing in this war, indeed any war, is wrong. The issue here is that indiscriminate killing and maiming on one side is decried as terrorism whilst on the other it's condoned by western leaders (and it appears much of the population) and the collateral damage of thousand of Palestinians and now Lebanese is a price worth paying.

:agree: I couldn't help thinking about the potential collateral damage caused by this attack. Israel was obviously fine with the idea that some of these targets were near children, driving vehicles or even on planes or trains when these devices were detonated.

[Stairway 2 7]

Hezbollah announce the death of another 7 members. They say 3 civilians killed and 34 of the 37 dead so far were Hezbollah. Another another around 400 people with critical injuries.

Hezbollahs leader Hassan Nasrallah talking just now says the resistance received heavy blow, but this is the nature of war. says Hezbollah's attacks against northern #Israel have forced Israel to divert ressources away from Gaza and the West Bank.

Israeli strikes reported in Lebanon

Nasrallah speaking about the possibility that Israeli troops will enter the country to create a buffer zone: says he doesn't believe Israeli will make an invasion as they regularly make the same threat

"We wish that they enter Lebanon, What you consider a threat, we consider an opportunity"

[DaveF]

Israel all set to flatten Lebanon now. And yet, they will be armed to the hilt by Western allies.

[Ozyhibby]

Israel all set to flatten Lebanon now. And yet, they will be armed to the hilt by Western allies.

I have a different opinion on military action v Hezbollah as the people of Gaza.
Isreal controls Gaza but Lebanon is responsible for dealing with Hezbollah. **** for the ordinary people of Lebanon.
I think eventually there will be a war between Iran and the West. It’s the only way this will ever be dealt with.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I have a different opinion on military action v Hezbollah as the people of Gaza.
Isreal controls Gaza but Lebanon is responsible for dealing with Hezbollah. **** for the ordinary people of Lebanon.
I think eventually there will be a war between Iran and the West. It’s the only way this will ever be dealt with.


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Wouldn't last long. I think they will try to arm proxies and bottle it when it comes down to it like they did when Israel hit them. Leaders usually like their good lives and only start wars that they think they will win.

[Ozyhibby]

Wouldn't last long. I think they will try to arm proxies and bottle it when it comes down to it like they did when Israel hit them. Leaders usually like their good lives and only start wars that they think they will win.

Tricky country to invade though. Geography favours defence.


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[DaveF]

I have a different opinion on military action v Hezbollah as the people of Gaza.
Isreal controls Gaza but Lebanon is responsible for dealing with Hezbollah. **** for the ordinary people of Lebanon.
I think eventually there will be a war between Iran and the West. It’s the only way this will ever be dealt with.


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It's the ordinary people of Lebanon I feel for. The country has been fragile for decades but Israel won't care who it kills in pursuit of Hezbollah.

And neither will it's allies.

[Stairway 2 7]

Tricky country to invade though. Geography favours defence.


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No one is invading it I think the stupidity of Russia thinking it's 1940 the last few years has put paid to that, although even Russia thought they would win in a week. 200 NATO f35s and HIMARS would stop anything Iran did. Although I'm sure they won't they aren't stupid, they basically armed Hamas and Hezbollah and then through them under the bus when they asked Iran to get involved. More likely oil deals with Iran than full blown war

[Ozyhibby]

No one is invading it I think the stupidity of Russia thinking it's 1940 the last few years has put paid to that, although even Russia thought they would win in a week. 200 NATO f35s and HIMARS would stop anything Iran did. Although I'm sure they won't they aren't stupid, they basically armed Hamas and Hezbollah and then through them under the bus when they asked Iran to get involved. More likely oil deals with Iran than full blown war

I’m thinking a massive air war is most likely right enough. The problem being that regime change is difficult to achieve that way.
It’s a fragile regime as is and we don’t want to strengthen it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Lots of reports of hezbollah fighters being attacked by Sunni and Druze people when fleeing north. You forget how much of a separated country it is and how incompetent Britain was when dividing up countries on maps without a care for sectarianism

[Stairway 2 7]

I’m thinking a massive air war is most likely right enough. The problem being that regime change is difficult to achieve that way.
It’s a fragile regime as is and we don’t want to strengthen it.


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Yeah I agree, the leaders are hated by many. Dead kids in Iranian news would create a common enemy.

[JimBHibees]

Lots of reports of hezbollah fighters being attacked by Sunni and Druze people when fleeing north. You forget how much of a separated country it is and how incompetent Britain was when dividing up countries on maps without a care for sectarianism

Britain has a bit of previous for that

[Ozyhibby]

Lots of reports the head of Hezbollah has been killed. Let’s hope so.[emoji1696]


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[CropleyWasGod]

Lots of reports the head of Hezbollah has been killed. Let’s hope so.[emoji1696]


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Never sure about things like this.

Killing the head just reinforces the cause, no? The guy himself will be martyred, and someone else will step up.

[Ozyhibby]

Never sure about things like this.

Killing the head just reinforces the cause, no? The guy himself will be martyred, and someone else will step up.

Wasn’t just the head. Sounds like it was their whole leadership who had convened a meeting that the Israelis knew about.
Will be interesting to see what the Iranians do. They desperately don’t want a war with Isreal but can’t be seen to turn their back on this again.
There will be people in Lebanon happy with this as well. They don’t serve the whole population.


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[The Tubs]

Lots of reports of hezbollah fighters being attacked by Sunni and Druze people when fleeing north. You forget how much of a separated country it is and how incompetent Britain was when dividing up countries on maps without a care for sectarianism

While I love sticking the boot into Britain, is it not the case that France inherited Lebanon from the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI? Additionally, when it comes to the Levant in general, due to different ethnicities living in close proximity over centuries, I don't think it would have ever been as easy as putting lines in the appropriate places.

[Paul1642]

Never sure about things like this.

Killing the head just reinforces the cause, no? The guy himself will be martyred, and someone else will step up.

I guess it’s completely situational. Killing Putin for example would quite likely be a catalyst for peace or Russian civil war.

Between the pager explosions (which I’m still in absolute awe at) and taking out not only the Hezbollah leader, but potentially a whole lot of their top brass in one move, the Israelis have played an absolute blinder IMO. They have effectively crippled their enemy without a ground invasion. The Iranians should really be taking note and adapting fast because any restraint that Isreal might be showing with Lebanon up until now, won’t be afforded to Iran if all out war the decision.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Lots of reports the head of Hezbollah has been killed. Let’s hope so.[emoji1696]


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i honestly think it's mental that anyone can a) predict what the fallout of that would be and b) think they can speak on behalf of others, thousands of miles away. Bill Burr's appearance on Bill Maher's podcast is worth a watch.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I guess it’s completely situational. Killing Putin for example would quite likely be a catalyst for peace or Russian civil war.

Between the pager explosions (which I’m still in absolute awe at) and taking out not only the Hezbollah leader, but potentially a whole lot of their top brass in one move, the Israelis have played an absolute blinder IMO. They have effectively crippled their enemy without a ground invasion. The Iranians should really be taking note and adapting fast because any restraint that Isreal might be showing with Lebanon up until now, won’t be afforded to Iran if all out war the decision.

it's so, so, so insanely problematic using this language. did Hamas not play a blinder in October too? they got the world's attention back on Gaza. But saying they played a 'blinder' would not go down well here, i imagine, and sort of rightly so, because describing any kind of murder like that is just warped.

one might ignore the fact that Mossad managed to take out a fare few kids in Lebanon with the pagers, but even so, the attack is an absolutely colossal breach of all kinds of international laws. it's a war crime, and it is absolutely terrorism. marvelling at the execution of the plot is nothing more that military fetishism.

[Stairway 2 7]

it's so, so, so insanely problematic using this language. did Hamas not play a blinder in October too? they got the world's attention back on Gaza. But saying they played a 'blinder' would not go down well here, i imagine, and sort of rightly so, because describing any kind of murder like that is just warped.

one might ignore the fact that Mossad managed to take out a fare few kids in Lebanon with the pagers, but even so, the attack is an absolutely colossal breach of all kinds of international laws. it's a war crime, and it is absolutely terrorism. marvelling at the execution of the plot is nothing more that military fetishism.

I don't agree with the pagers as although it was only hezbollah top brass that had a pager some could have had their kids in their arms. It can't be denied that it's very targeted though.

The point of war is to kill the enemy with as minimal civilian deaths as possible, although obviously there will always be civilian casualties and that can't be helped. I've no problem with bombs like yesterday being gps targeted to take out hezbollah leadership, even if there is some unintended casualties. I am obviously against the carpet bombing and untargeted flattening of Gaza.

To compare the pager attack to october 7th is ridiculous though. Hezbollah themselves said something like 50 hezbollah deaths and 3 civilians as well as around 500 hezbollah operatives severely injured. I don't agree with it but it was totally targeted. October the 7th was targeted at civilians. A few soldiers died but thousands of civilians murdered most from point blank range. Kids dancing at a festival, people waiting for the bus, people hiding in rooms. If on october 7th the crossed the border and all went to kill military personnel or targeted barracks I'd say it was fair

[Paul1642]

it's so, so, so insanely problematic using this language. did Hamas not play a blinder in October too? they got the world's attention back on Gaza. But saying they played a 'blinder' would not go down well here, i imagine, and sort of rightly so, because describing any kind of murder like that is just warped.

one might ignore the fact that Mossad managed to take out a fare few kids in Lebanon with the pagers, but even so, the attack is an absolutely colossal breach of all kinds of international laws. it's a war crime, and it is absolutely terrorism. marvelling at the execution of the plot is nothing more that military fetishism.

No side taking of military favouritism here. I just think thank that wiping out your enemy’s chain of command and their communication network in the space of a week or so without a ground offensive is pretty much unheard off.

[Itsnoteasy]

No side taking of military favouritism here. I just think thank that wiping out your enemy’s chain of command and their communication network in the space of a week or so without a ground offensive is pretty much unheard off.

So what your trying to say is they played a blinder.

[Stairway 2 7]

So what your trying to say is they played a blinder.

Yeah I was in shock at how they pulled it off, setting up companies years in advanced. Probably the most successful spy operation ever. Horrible army's like the Nazis or the UK in India can have amazing military operations, doesn't make them not horrendous.

Operation Greif by the Nazis was amazing. Soldiers dressed in US uniforms flew in behind enemy lines and caused havoc. They started directing tanks convoys down wrong roads, destroyed ammunition dumps, switched road signs and cut electric and phone lines. When it was uncovered the US had to use a lot of men to set up road blocks all over. The more famous operation mincemeat was cool too

[Hibs4185]

Not expressing any view on the rights or wrongs of the situation but Iran and Hezbollah would be mental to try and start something.

Israel wiped out the whole command of Hezbollah in a few days.

Iran attacked Israel a few months ago with missiles and drones. A high percentage were destroyed in flight and the couple that got through, the Israeli’s allowed through because they were missing their target.

A ceasefire is everyone’s interests

[Ozyhibby]

Not expressing any view on the rights or wrongs of the situation but Iran and Hezbollah would be mental to try and start something.

Israel wiped out the whole command of Hezbollah in a few days.

Iran attacked Israel a few months ago with missiles and drones. A high percentage were destroyed in flight and the couple that got through, the Israeli’s allowed through because they were missing their target.

A ceasefire is everyone’s interests

I don’t think Isreal is interested in anything other than the destruction of Hezbollah. If the Iranians get involved then so be it but they want them gone from Lebanon. That would be good for both countries.
Iran will feel they need to respond but they know they face a wipeout if they go too far. I suspect they will send some slow flying drones that are easily taken care of and Isreal will go all out to rid Lebanon of Hezbollah. Iranians really don’t want this fight.
I don’t think a ceasefire is in Israel’s interest. One in Gaza is now but it takes two to tango there.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240928/39dbe1801c57a4f898dc769dcc5e9eaf.jpg
Really quite a devastating couple of weeks for Hezbollah.


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[Paul1642]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240928/39dbe1801c57a4f898dc769dcc5e9eaf.jpg
Really quite a devastating couple of weeks for Hezbollah.


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Abu Ali Rida can’t be getting much sleep.

[cabbageandribs1875]

good Nasrallah taken out, no more threatening Lebanon's Christians from him

[DaveF]

Abu Ali Rida can’t be getting much sleep.

Maybe he's been feeding info to Israel and just happened to miss the meeting.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/simonmontefiore/status/1840275673748815927?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good article from Mathew Syed as usual. Doesn’t appear to be behind the paywall.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/simonmontefiore/status/1840272452699509236?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[CropleyWasGod]

Wasn’t just the head. Sounds like it was their whole leadership who had convened a meeting that the Israelis knew about.
Will be interesting to see what the Iranians do. They desperately don’t want a war with Isreal but can’t be seen to turn their back on this again.
There will be people in Lebanon happy with this as well. They don’t serve the whole population.


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I realise that now. :aok:

[Hibs4185]

https://x.com/simonmontefiore/status/1840275673748815927?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good article from Mathew Syed as usual. Doesn’t appear to be behind the paywall.


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Excellent article and perfectly sums it up, thanks for sharing

[AgentDaleCooper]

I mean, if you want to take your moral guidance from the Murdoch press then fine - but this kind of approach relies on deciding which facts matter and which don't, then basically obscuring the ones the 'don't matter' with reasons. Another term for this is 'moral splitting'. When you decide that a whole bunch of facts don't matter, they and their emergent properties creep up on you. The most obvious example of this is the climate crisis, but our history in foreign affairs is littered with this kind of self regarding thought. It's why throwing around words like 'evil' is just utterly meaningless - it comes from a place of self regarding denial.

[overdrive]

Maybe he's been feeding info to Israel and just happened to miss the meeting.

Yep that was my thought too. Somebody must have been feeding Israel info. Even if he hasn’t been feeding them stuff, you’d have to be worried if you were him as potentially both sides might want him dead now.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Excellent article and perfectly sums it up, thanks for sharing

it's an absolutely idiotic article.

basically, it says 'there's no room for shades of grey, you've got to swallow them and pick a side'.

with Russia, I get it - if they're not stopped, where will they stop?

...but where would Israel stop? There are a LOT of elements in the country that would like to see it expand. It has certainly tried to before. They are a self-described settler-colonial power, and they actually think (correctly) that it's hypocritical of the west to criticise them for this. They are right next to the single most important shipping lane on the planet...if Putin can't be trusten not to wade further into Europe, why isn't Netanyahu going to try to grab Sinai, not to mention the Golan Heights - he's stood in front of maps that included bits of Jordan in Israel as well, IIRC.

There is one reason they have all these weapons pointed at them, and it's f****ng US. Israel is a problem created by the west, for the west. I'm sure you'll have seen what Biden had to say on the matter in the 80s, words to the effect of "if we didn't have an Israel in the Middle East we'd need to make one to defend our interests in the region', before going on to describe it as 'the best investment in foreign affairs the US ever made' (I think it was regarding the military aid being given to Israel support or something).

Israel was designed to be 'a little Ulster' - the Black and Tans were literally enlisted to help set it up.

A lot of Jewish people I know feel it could have been very different, if less land had been taken from the Palestinians in the first place. The whole project morphed from giving the Jewish people a place to be safe from turning an incredibly traumatized people into attack dogs for colonial powers. Furthermore, it naturally turned the surrounding countries against Jewish people native to Iraq, Syria, Iran etc., who were all forced to leave to Israel for their own safety, when previously they had been living pretty peacefully.

The fact is, regardless of how 'cool' the pagers were, it's a war crime, and a pretty terrifying precedent. There's a word for that kind of act...oh yeah, terrorism. But it's cool terrorism, perpetrated by white people who espouse liberal values towards other white people, and it's surgical, so we'll put the genocide in Gaza to one side for a sec and applaud them for doing this whilst minimising civilian casualties...like they actually give a toss about that.

If you honestly can't see that the 'moral steel' that you are fostering is in defence of the thing that has created this problem (colonial liberal capitalism) then...I don't bloody know. :dunno:


The question of 'pick a side' between Hezbollah and Netenyahu is absolutely ridiculous. The only solution, albeit a difficult one, is for the west to stop arming Israel until it completely stops every illegal activity towards Palestinians, changes its government, and starts a genuine peace and reconciliation process. It's what we're going to expect of Russia.

[Ozyhibby]

it's an absolutely idiotic article.

basically, it says 'there's no room for shades of grey, you've got to swallow them and pick a side'.

with Russia, I get it - if they're not stopped, where will they stop?

...but where would Israel stop? There are a LOT of elements in the country that would like to see it expand. It has certainly tried to before. They are a self-described settler-colonial power, and they actually think (correctly) that it's hypocritical of the west to criticise them for this. They are right next to the single most important shipping lane on the planet...if Putin can't be trusten not to wade further into Europe, why isn't Netanyahu going to try to grab Sinai, not to mention the Golan Heights - he's stood in front of maps that included bits of Jordan in Israel as well, IIRC.

There is one reason they have all these weapons pointed at them, and it's f****ng US. Israel is a problem created by the west, for the west. I'm sure you'll have seen what Biden had to say on the matter in the 80s, words to the effect of "if we didn't have an Israel in the Middle East we'd need to make one to defend our interests in the region', before going on to describe it as 'the best investment in foreign affairs the US ever made' (I think it was regarding the military aid being given to Israel support or something).

Israel was designed to be 'a little Ulster' - the Black and Tans were literally enlisted to help set it up.

A lot of Jewish people I know feel it could have been very different, if less land had been taken from the Palestinians in the first place. The whole project morphed from giving the Jewish people a place to be safe from turning an incredibly traumatized people into attack dogs for colonial powers. Furthermore, it naturally turned the surrounding countries against Jewish people native to Iraq, Syria, Iran etc., who were all forced to leave to Israel for their own safety, when previously they had been living pretty peacefully.

The fact is, regardless of how 'cool' the pagers were, it's a war crime, and a pretty terrifying precedent. There's a word for that kind of act...oh yeah, terrorism. But it's cool terrorism, perpetrated by white people who espouse liberal values towards other white people, and it's surgical, so we'll put the genocide in Gaza to one side for a sec and applaud them for doing this whilst minimising civilian casualties...like they actually give a toss about that.

If you honestly can't see that the 'moral steel' that you are fostering is in defence of the thing that has created this problem (colonial liberal capitalism) then...I don't bloody know. :dunno:


The question of 'pick a side' between Hezbollah and Netenyahu is absolutely ridiculous. The only solution, albeit a difficult one, is for the west to stop arming Israel until it completely stops every illegal activity towards Palestinians, changes its government, and starts a genuine peace and reconciliation process. It's what we're going to expect of Russia.

I can abhor what Isreal do in the West Bank or Gaza at the same time as hoping they prevail against Iran.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

I can abhor what Isreal do in the West Bank or Gaza at the same time as hoping they prevail against Iran.


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I know you can, but it's incredibly reductive and really isn't part of the solution - Israel needs to back the absolute **** down before it and the west see their chickens come home to roost, which would be a humanitarian disaster on a scale that doesn't bare thinking about (the victims of which would be, in the vast majority, completely innocent, well meaning and peace seeking Israelis and Arabs). Europe and America created this problem, and the last thing the situation needs is cheerleaders in the west. It needs measured de-escalation. Arming Israel to fight Iran without very, very strict conditions would potentially be just as catastrophic. If the west is some kind of moral authority (which it isn't), then it's time to step up and stop enabling genocidal fascists. Anything else is a disaster.

[Kato]

I know you can, but it's incredibly reductive and really isn't part of the solution - Israel needs to back the absolute **** down before it and the west see their chickens come home to roost, which would be a humanitarian disaster on a scale that doesn't bare thinking about (the victims of which would be, in the vast majority, completely innocent, well meaning and peace seeking Israelis and Arabs). Europe and America created this problem, and the last thing the situation needs is cheerleaders in the west. It needs measured de-escalation. Arming Israel to fight Iran without very, very strict conditions would potentially be just as catastrophic. If the west truly is some kind of moral authority (which it really isn't), then it's time to step up and stop enabling genocidal fascists. Anything else is a disaster.The last chapter shows what the article is. Tub thumping for a large scale war. Which will probably happen.

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[Stairway 2 7]

The people who blame everything on Iran are as daft as the people who blame everything on the West. It's no a football game or good guys and bad guys. Multiple groups are wanting and pushing violence. In saying that Iran doesn't want a war its just seen two of its proxies decimated. I can't see any wider war it's more likely deals will be done and capitalism will keep on turning. Just as Russia will be welcomed back in as soon as a deal is brokered.

[AgentDaleCooper]

The people who blame everything on Iran are as daft as the people who blame everything on the West. It's no a football game or good guys and bad guys. Multiple groups are wanting and pushing violence. In saying that Iran doesn't want a war its just seen two of its proxies decimated. I can't see any wider war it's more likely deals will be done and capitalism will keep on turning. Just as Russia will be welcomed back in as soon as a deal is brokered.

Probably right...apocalypse avoided, onwards with technofeudalism...

[Sylar]

Iran 'imminently' to launch a direct ballistic missile attack on Israel, according to the US.

[Stairway 2 7]

Iran 'imminently' to launch a direct ballistic missile attack on Israel, according to the US.

Seems a bit bizarre they would have this much warning. Plenty time to get army staff safe and the f35s in the sky to take the missles out. Isn't the point of ballistic missles that they have great speed so you can surprise defences and you don't knowthe target.


@visegrad24
·
12m
BREAKING:

The New York Times reports that Israeli officials believe the Islamic Regime in Iran will launch an attack against 3 Israeli military bases and an intelligence headquarters north of Tel Aviv.

They believe the attack is coming within the next 12 hours

[Ryan91]

Seems a bit bizarre they would have this much warning. Plenty time to get army staff safe and the f35s in the sky to take the missles out. Isn't the point of ballistic missles that they have great speed so you can surprise defences and you don't knowthe target.


@visegrad24
·
12m
BREAKING:

The New York Times reports that Israeli officials believe the Islamic Regime in Iran will launch an attack against 3 Israeli military bases and an intelligence headquarters north of Tel Aviv.

They believe the attack is coming within the next 12 hours

Perhaps this is just a case of Iran showing it has the ability to strike Israel, and that if it escalates further Iran will launch one without forewarning?

Or it could be the US showing it has intelligence assets at a high level within the Iranian military command structure and that this strike won't accomplish anything for Iran as Israel will just remove anything valuable from those sites

[Mon Dieu4]

Perhaps this is just a case of Iran showing it has the ability to strike Israel, and that if it escalates further Iran will launch one without forewarning?

Or it could be the US showing it has intelligence assets at a high level within the Iranian military command structure and that this strike won't accomplish anything for Iran as Israel will just remove anything valuable from those sites

Pretty much that, Iran doesn't want direct conflict with the west, that's why they do it through Hamas, Hezbollah and the Huthis indirectly, they have to be seen to be doing something to not look weak, so firing off missiles that everyone knows about allows them to save face

Could still all really kick off at any point though

[Stairway 2 7]

Perhaps this is just a case of Iran showing it has the ability to strike Israel, and that if it escalates further Iran will launch one without forewarning?

Or it could be the US showing it has intelligence assets at a high level within the Iranian military command structure and that this strike won't accomplish anything for Iran as Israel will just remove anything valuable from those sites

You could be right actually i could see it being the second one as in publicly saying we know what your planning. It could also be Iran making it obvious so Israel deals with it but they keep face with the public.

I don't think it's the first as only a few months ago Iran sent a huge barrage of ballistic missles and drones and they all got shot down.

[Hibs4185]

Iran are between a rock and a hard place.

On one hand they need to be big and mighty and retaliate but at the same time doing so, could be embarrassing if their best weapons get shot down again.

Personally I don’t think they will fire anything. Better to be thought of as being a restrained ‘super power’ rather than a faltering regime.

[Ozyhibby]

Iran are between a rock and a hard place.

On one hand they need to be big and mighty and retaliate but at the same time doing so, could be embarrassing if their best weapons get shot down again.

Personally I don’t think they will fire anything. Better to be thought of as being a restrained ‘super power’ rather than a faltering regime.

I’m thinking they won’t get involved directly either. They know they are impotent when it comes to Isreal. And I don’t want an oil price surge helping Putin just now either.


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[Hibs4185]

I’m thinking they won’t get involved directly either. They know they are impotent when it comes to Isreal. And I don’t want an oil price surge helping Putin just now either.


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Looks like we are wrong. 100 missiles launched from
Iran

[Ozyhibby]

Looks like we are wrong. 100 missiles launched from
Iran

I know. I hit send and went downstairs and it was on CNN. Quality.[emoji23]

Thankfully the two countries are too far apart for anything more than lobbing missiles at each other.


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[grunt]

What a world we live in.

[Jim44]

What a world we live in.

At my age, I used to fear for the future welfare of my children and grandchildren. It’s now getting to the stage where vast escalation of inter-continental/international warfare is more likely than not, in my lifetime, to lead to frequent global hostilities.

[Ozyhibby]

At my age, I used to fear for the future welfare of my children and grandchildren. It’s now getting to the stage where vast escalation of inter-continental/international warfare is more likely than not, in my lifetime, to lead to frequent global hostilities.

Haven’t seen recent stats but the world has mostly got less violent over the years. 24 hour tv news just means we hear more about it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Haven’t seen recent stats but the world has mostly got less violent over the years. 24 hour tv news just means we hear more about it.


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Not related but I'd read in 30 years violent attacks are down 83% and burglaries 86% in the uk, maybe one for the beer at football thread ha. Early 90s must have been radge but I'd think some people think it's worse now, due to every crime being reported whether that is on the news or locally through social media