Hamas attack on Israel

[neil7908]

Horrific and shocking news today with the Hamas attack on cities around Gaza.

I can't quite believe that they have been able to do this so easily. This must surely be one of the most heavily guarded borders in the world.

The Israel response is going to be massive. And as always, it will be civilians on both sides that suffer. There appears to be no end in sight to the bloodshed.

[Jones28]

Crazy crazy stuff. Reports of civilians being shot in the street and pulled from cars and executed.

[cabbageandribs1875]

over 150 killed in Israel


Israel has retaliated killing 198

[tamig]

Horrific and shocking news today with the Hamas attack on cities around Gaza.

I can't quite believe that they have been able to do this so easily. This must surely be one of the most heavily guarded borders in the world.

The Israel response is going to be massive. And as always, it will be civilians on both sides that suffer. There appears to be no end in sight to the bloodshed.
Huge embarrassment for the Israeli security services.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Huge embarrassment for the Israeli security services.

It is, but the wrath of the Israelis, as always, will primarily be borne by those Palestinians who are most vulnerable, especially children. Internal politics is at play here, as Hamas wants to demonstrate it isn’t lying down to Israel, but, at the same time they know that Israeli reprisals will be enormous and thousands of innocent people will die.

I have great sympathy for Palestinian independence, and it isn’t for me to take the moral high ground in relation to an illegally occupied and besieged people, but this will end badly for all, particularly innocent Palestinians. Will any perceived gains be worth the cost of so many lives, both Palestinian and Israeli? What a terrible scenario once again. It all seems so futile.

[tamig]

It is, but the wrath of the Israelis, as always, will primarily be borne by those Palestinians who are most vulnerable, especially children. Internal politics is at play here, as Hamas wants to demonstrate it isn’t lying down to Israel, but, at the same time they know that Israeli reprisals will be enormous and thousands of innocent people will die.

I have great sympathy for Palestinian independence, and it isn’t for me to take the moral high ground in relation to an illegally occupied and besieged people, but this will end badly for all, particularly innocent Palestinians. Will any perceived gains be worth the cost of so many lives, both Palestinian and Israeli? What a terrible scenario once again. It all seems so futile.
I’m with you bud. I am no Israeli sympathiser. I’m fully aware as to what lies ahead.

[Paul1642]

Viewing the many horrendous videos circulating widely on X of of dead pensioners at bus stops, terrified kidnapped Israeli woman, the dead German woman being paraded throughout the streets ect, it’s hard to find a great deal of sympathy for what comes Hamas’ way now. Disgusting behaviour from human beings.

[Hibrandenburg]

Viewing the many horrendous videos circulating widely on X of of dead pensioners at bus stops, terrified kidnapped Israeli woman, the dead German woman being paraded throughout the streets ect, it’s hard to find a great deal of sympathy for what comes Hamas’ way now. Disgusting behaviour from human beings.

I'm in a similar place. I have sympathy for the suffering of the Palestinian people but atrocities like we are seeing will only alienate public opinion, bring down more misery on their people and continue the never ending cycle of hate and violence.

[Pretty Boy]

It's unfathomably tragic that 30 years after the Oslo accords, 30+ years on from the agreements and negotiations between Yasser Arafat, Yitzkah Rabin and Shimone Peres, 30 years on from the change in stance from both Fatah and the then Israeli government and their mutual recognition of the need for a two state solution and 23 years on from the Camp David Summit that started to put a framework in place for such that we seem further away from a resolution than ever.

Hard liners are running the show on both sides and this kind of escalation is an inevitability. I have been a vocal critic of the Israeli government and the IDF but in this instance they have really been left with little option but retaliation. The actions of Hamas are indefensible and the Israeli response will be brutal and bloody.

[Hibs4185]

I really have no idea of the history of the whole thing but I’ve never bought into the Palestine rallies etc. I don’t have a strong personal opinion as as I don’t know the subject well enough but whilst it’s a tragedy what has happened, what good does killing and harming thousands of civilians do? It just creates the next wave of terrorists and extremists after seeing their family and friends killed.

It’s just an endless cycle. It’s easy to say because I’m not personally affected by it, but imagine Israel showed restraint and didnt retaliate. It may show some on the Palestinian side that their actions are abhorrent and may win some public opinion.


If it happened again or more rockets etc then Israel would be fully justified retaliating in full.

It won’t happen and if/when Isreal retaliate I don’t blame them but it will be never ending

[Hibs4185]

Just to add, there is an amazing box set called Fauda on Netflix which is about Israel/palestine and it follows special agents with the IDF.

[Ozyhibby]

Just to add, there is an amazing box set called Fauda on Netflix which is about Israel/palestine and it follows special agents with the IDF.

Agree. Excellent show.


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[Keith_M]

It is, but the wrath of the Israelis, as always, will primarily be borne by those Palestinians who are most vulnerable, especially children. Internal politics is at play here, as Hamas wants to demonstrate it isn’t lying down to Israel, but, at the same time they know that Israeli reprisals will be enormous and thousands of innocent people will die.

I have great sympathy for Palestinian independence, and it isn’t for me to take the moral high ground in relation to an illegally occupied and besieged people, but this will end badly for all, particularly innocent Palestinians. Will any perceived gains be worth the cost of so many lives, both Palestinian and Israeli? What a terrible scenario once again. It all seems so futile.


Viewing the many horrendous videos circulating widely on X of of dead pensioners at bus stops, terrified kidnapped Israeli woman, the dead German woman being paraded throughout the streets ect, it’s hard to find a great deal of sympathy for what comes Hamas’ way now. Disgusting behaviour from human beings.


Agree with both of these comments.

For Hamas to do this reinforces my view that they do not care whatsoever about the hundreds (possibly thousands) of innocent people that will suffer on both sides.

[Ozyhibby]

Agree with both of these comments.

For Hamas to do this reinforces my view that they do not care whatsoever about the hundreds (possibly thousands) of innocent people that will suffer on both sides.

I think that applies to both sides.


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[jacomo]

Viewing the many horrendous videos circulating widely on X of of dead pensioners at bus stops, terrified kidnapped Israeli woman, the dead German woman being paraded throughout the streets ect, it’s hard to find a great deal of sympathy for what comes Hamas’ way now. Disgusting behaviour from human beings.


Yes it is. And similar atrocities have been carried out by Israelis against Palestinians - in fact, the usual pattern is that more Palestinians die every year.

This will continue so long as folk like Hamas and Netanyahu pull the strings.

[Ozyhibby]

Yes it is. And similar atrocities have been carried out by Israelis against Palestinians - in fact, the usual pattern is that more Palestinians die every year.

This will continue so long as folk like Hamas and Netanyahu pull the strings.

Both Hamas and Netanyahu want this war. There is no way Isreal was caught by surprise.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I support Palestines right to fight for freedom, they have been brutalised constantly and treated like animals. All the military targets were fair game

But.. you have no humanity if you think most of the acts yesterday were in anyway justified. 250 kids just going to a concert, old people waiting for a bus, a woman dead half naked paraded round the back of a truck, little kids without their parents abducted, this is vile terrorism.

Notice Maggie Chapman retweeted a post saying the acts weren't terrorism they are decolonisation. She then says all the acts are due to Isreals apartheid. I don't care if your oppressed raping women and murdering kids can never be justified

https://twitter.com/MaggieChapman/status/1711061209737265260

[jacomo]

Both Hamas and Netanyahu want this war. There is no way Isreal was caught by surprise.


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Minded to agree with you.

[neil7908]

Both Hamas and Netanyahu want this war. There is no way Isreal was caught by surprise.


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It always fascinates me that people vote right wing politicians to "keep them safe", only to see them fail spectacularly to do this, and then still vote them in again.

In the US 9/11 happened under a Republican President and Bin Laden was killed under Obama's watch. And yet its the right that will protect us from the bad guys 🤔

[jacomo]

It always fascinates me that people vote right wing politicians to "keep them safe", only to see them fail spectacularly to do this, and then still vote them in again.

In the US 9/11 happened under a Republican President and Bin Laden was killed under Obama's watch. And yet its the right that will protect us from the bad guys 🤔


Such politicians appeal to base instincts, and only care about their narrow self-interest. See Trump as an exemplar of this.

Fortunately, Northern Ireland found politicians on both sides willing to rise above such behaviour, show some actual leadership, and end the troubles.

The situation in Israel / Palestine is a lot more complicated, but there are parallels.

[Stairway 2 7]

WSJ with the most obvious of exclusives. Hamas say Iran helped plan and fund the attack

https://archive.ph/XcaAJ

[Ozyhibby]

Such politicians appeal to base instincts, and only care about their narrow self-interest. See Trump as an exemplar of this.

Fortunately, Northern Ireland found politicians on both sides willing to rise above such behaviour, show some actual leadership, and end the troubles.

The situation in Israel / Palestine is a lot more complicated, but there are parallels.

Democracy was available in NI. They can’t have that in Isreal.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/manniefabian/status/1711311030083563925?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[DaveF]

https://x.com/manniefabian/status/1711311030083563925?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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FFS Treat them like the Nazis treated Jews in the ghetto's.

What a mess.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/manniefabian/status/1711311030083563925?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Brutal.

I don't understand Hamas's actions. They were never going to work militarily. They were always going to give Isreal free rein to ramp up the brutalty and squash hamas without fear of condemnation.

[WhileTheChief..]

Both Hamas and Netanyahu want this war. There is no way Isreal was caught by surprise.


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That goes against absolutely everything being reported.

Not since the Holocaust have that number of Israelis been killed in a single day. To suggest that Isreal saw it coming is ridiculous in the extreme.

[CropleyWasGod]

That goes against absolutely everything being reported.

Not since the Holocaust have that number of Israelis been killed in a single day. To suggest that Isreal saw it coming is ridiculous in the extreme.

...which begs the question.... "how did one of the most militarised countries on the planet, with one of the most highly-evolved intelligence networks, not see it coming?".

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1711368333579207117?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

FM’s family stuck in Gaza.


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[Aldo]

Putin via his UN Ambassador Lavrov has asked for ceasefire and condemns the killing /attacks on women and children.

[Stairway 2 7]

...which begs the question.... "how did one of the most militarised countries on the planet, with one of the most highly-evolved intelligence networks, not see it coming?".

Read lots of speculation. Some say Netanyahu was to focused on internal battles and culture wars. Many of the security services were moved from borders to help calm protesters. He also had lots of bad blood with his army recently saying they were in bed with the left.

Also it's looking like a lot of the planning was done Iran away from eyes

Mostly though I think terrorism is hard to stop, see 9/11 or 7/7. It's pretty easy to gun down civilians and run. It's definitely a huge red face. Sadly the ones who pay will be the innocent in the Gaza strip

[Jones28]

https://x.com/manniefabian/status/1711311030083563925?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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They’re turning the water off too.

What a ****ing mess.

[WhileTheChief..]

Gaza could end up looking like Mariupol.

Frightening times ahead and can only see this spreading throughout the wider region.

[Ozyhibby]

...which begs the question.... "how did one of the most militarised countries on the planet, with one of the most highly-evolved intelligence networks, not see it coming?".

https://x.com/ragipsoylu/status/1711394276687388687?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

It suited them to blank it out.


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[superfurryhibby]

Listened to the Israeli Defence Force spokesman being interviewed on Radio Scotland. He is pledging destruction in Gaza, no compromises.

Disgusting interview, the BBC guy was so passive and failed to challenge some of the statements being made, which were utterly horrific.

[Pretty Boy]

https://x.com/ragipsoylu/status/1711394276687388687?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

It suited them to blank it out.


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I don't think anyone could really argue that this doesn't play well politically for the ultra nationalist, ultra Zionist factions within Israeli politics.

As many will know there have been sustained anti government protests in recent months that have seen hundreds of thousands take to the streets in protest at 'reforms' that dilute the independent judiciary and hand power to the governing part who happen to have lurched to the right on a ticket of right wing populism, nationalism, zionism and, in campaigning during the run up to the last election, overt and extreme anti Arab rhetoric.

I'm not sure I would argue the Israeli government and security forces let this happen, I think it's entirely possible they have taken their eye off the ball when fighting their own internal wars as mentioned by others above. I think only a fool would argue that it isn't going to be used to justify quicker and harder 'reforms' though with those opposing such legislation being branded as traitors or sympathisers.

There is going to be a continuing huge human tragedy with the biggest victims, as always, being innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians.

[Hibrandenburg]

Listened to the Israeli Defence Force spokesman being interviewed on Radio Scotland. He is pledging destruction in Gaza, no compromises.

Disgusting interview, the BBC guy was so passive and failed to challenge some of the statements being made, which were utterly horrific.

"We're fighting against human animals". Might as well call the Palestinians Untermenschen. Horrible dialogue.

[Ozyhibby]

Thank goodness for channel 4 news on just now. A balanced report.


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[Green Reaper]

Thank goodness for channel 4 news on just now. A balanced report.


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Been watching on Al Jezeera, which is also good

[Keith_M]

I think that applies to both sides.


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:agree:

Already hundreds dead in Palestine from Israeli revenge attacks. Hamas would know that would be the response but neither side really care.

[Stairway 2 7]

Hamas spokesman says one of the 150 hostages will be executed every time a home in gaza is hit without prior warning. They say they will release the audio and video.

Netanyahu on news now talking mince mostly but saying they will quickly finish Hamas.

Think Hamas is being used by Iran and Qatar. They had no chance and its poor Palestinians that will suffer most

[tamig]

Gaza could end up looking like Mariupol.

Frightening times ahead and can only see this spreading throughout the wider region.

There’s not a chance of that happening. There are over 2 million souls in Gaza. If Israel start flattening the whole place the rest of the world won’t stand idly by and let that happen. Not a chance.

[Stairway 2 7]

There’s not a chance of that happening. There are over 2 million souls in Gaza. If Israel start flattening the whole place the rest of the world won’t stand idly by and let that happen. Not a chance.

Assad and Russia flattened Aleppo, population 2 million, people did nothing. Mariupol had a pop of 500k. Nations sadly regularly do nothing

[Ozyhibby]

Assad and Russia flattened Aleppo, population 2 million, people did nothing. Mariupol had a pop of 500k. Nations sadly regularly do nothing

Isreal would love nothing more than to force all two million of them into Egypt. They wouldn’t be allowed back.


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[H18 SFR]

Hamas spokesperson on the news they’re denying any women or children have been killed or taken hostage.

Notwithstanding the wider complexity of the relationship between both sides, Hamas seem a bit deluded.

[neil7908]

There’s not a chance of that happening. There are over 2 million souls in Gaza. If Israel start flattening the whole place the rest of the world won’t stand idly by and let that happen. Not a chance.

I mean, they've been bombing it for years without any condemnation from the Western world. I don't think they will literally flatten the whole of Gaza but they are already cutting off electricity and water, which is a war crime, and there has been zero push back.

[tamig]

I mean, they've been bombing it for years without any condemnation from the Western world. I don't think they will literally flatten the whole of Gaza but they are already cutting off electricity and water, which is a war crime, and there has been zero push back.

The UN secretary general used some strong words earlier. My original reply was responding to a comment that it could turn into another Mariupol but I really can’t see that happening. I also think the UN will intervene with aid pretty quickly along with other agencies.

[Bostonhibby]

It is, but the wrath of the Israelis, as always, will primarily be borne by those Palestinians who are most vulnerable, especially children. Internal politics is at play here, as Hamas wants to demonstrate it isn’t lying down to Israel, but, at the same time they know that Israeli reprisals will be enormous and thousands of innocent people will die.

I have great sympathy for Palestinian independence, and it isn’t for me to take the moral high ground in relation to an illegally occupied and besieged people, but this will end badly for all, particularly innocent Palestinians. Will any perceived gains be worth the cost of so many lives, both Palestinian and Israeli? What a terrible scenario once again. It all seems so futile.This is how I feel as well, Netanyahuh won't miss the chance to go over the top. Won't end well for innocents on either side but when do wars ever?



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[Hibrandenburg]

Tactically the attacks on Israel make little sense. I can't help but think there's more to this than we're seeing just now.

I'm thinking along the lines of the Iranians having supplied Hamas with tank busting drones or similar and Hamas trying to provoke Israel into an armoured attack so that they can give the Israeli military a bloody nose.

[Ozyhibby]

Tactically the attacks on Israel make little sense. I can't help but think there's more to this than we're seeing just now.

I'm thinking along the lines of the Iranians having supplied Hamas with tank busting drones or similar and Hamas trying to provoke Israel into an armoured attack so that they can give the Israeli military a bloody nose.

Nothing about the last 100 years there makes sense. And nobody ever seems to miss an opportunity to make the wrong decision. Morally or tactically.


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[Baader]

Interesting article from Barney Ronay about it and football's relationship with Arab states.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/09/israel-hamas-war-premier-league-football-geopolitics-saudi-arabia

[tamig]

Ashkelon now under attack after Hamas ordered civilians to evacuate before 5pm local time.

[BigKev]

My cousin stays or rather stayed in Kibbutz Beeri and she was lucky enough to have a lockable safe room when the fighting started on Saturday.

She’s told us of her best friend and her two young kids literally being shot dead on their doorstep amongst another 150 casualties in just her kibbutz alone.

Her eldest son is 25 and he managed to hide under a bed in his own home but it took six hours for the IDF to secure the compound and set him free. He’ll now be enlisted and hellbent on revenge.

Thankfully my cousin been moved to a guarded hotel alongside the rest of the survivors but the psychological effects of what she’s seen will live with her forever.

[JimBHibees]

My cousin stays or rather stayed in Kibbutz Beeri and she was lucky enough to have a lockable safe room when the fighting started on Saturday.

She’s told us of her best friend and her two young kids literally being shot dead on their doorstep amongst another 150 casualties in just her kibbutz alone.

Her eldest son is 25 and he managed to hide under a bed in his own home but it took six hours for the IDF to secure the compound and set him free. He’ll now be enlisted and hellbent on revenge.

Thankfully my cousin been moved to a guarded hotel alongside the rest of the survivors but the psychological effects of what she’s seen will live with her forever.

Wow that is absolutely horrifying.

[Ozyhibby]

My cousin stays or rather stayed in Kibbutz Beeri and she was lucky enough to have a lockable safe room when the fighting started on Saturday.

She’s told us of her best friend and her two young kids literally being shot dead on their doorstep amongst another 150 casualties in just her kibbutz alone.

Her eldest son is 25 and he managed to hide under a bed in his own home but it took six hours for the IDF to secure the compound and set him free. He’ll now be enlisted and hellbent on revenge.

Thankfully my cousin been moved to a guarded hotel alongside the rest of the survivors but the psychological effects of what she’s seen will live with her forever.

The attack by Hamas was absolutely horrifying. I struggle to understand how people can do that to each other. Eventually peace will be found but it won’t be for a while yet. Neither side is ready for it.


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[Keith_M]

My cousin stays or rather stayed in Kibbutz Beeri and she was lucky enough to have a lockable safe room when the fighting started on Saturday.

She’s told us of her best friend and her two young kids literally being shot dead on their doorstep amongst another 150 casualties in just her kibbutz alone.

Her eldest son is 25 and he managed to hide under a bed in his own home but it took six hours for the IDF to secure the compound and set him free. He’ll now be enlisted and hellbent on revenge.

Thankfully my cousin been moved to a guarded hotel alongside the rest of the survivors but the psychological effects of what she’s seen will live with her forever.


That's awful, mate. There must be loads of people experiencing similar and it's just tragic.

[Hibbyradge]

Horrific pictures on the BBC news tonight.

Videos of children and babies being kidnapped.

Tragic.

[Stairway 2 7]

The five person Scottish Parliament Corporate Body rejected a request to either fly an isreal flag or lower flags to half mast. They have done similar for Paris, Nice, Bruges, Westminster ect.

10 Britain's dead and 1000 others including 200 at a rave. Shame how contentious the subject is that you can't seem to support one without disrespecting the other.

[Stairway 2 7]

Blinken is going to travel to Isreal to give US support. What support do they need to beat a barely militarised army. 1000 bombs have brutally destroyed large sections of the strip. Iron dome has destroyed 90%+ of the 4500 rockets fired at Israel from gaza and Lebanon. They have a huge army and air force ready. Surely all the US should influence is Israel not going destroying more than that they can justify, I doubt they would be able to though

[Ozyhibby]

Blinken is going to travel to Isreal to give US support. What support do they need to beat a barely militarised army. 1000 bombs have brutally destroyed large sections of the strip. Iron dome has destroyed 90%+ of the 4500 rockets fired at Israel from gaza and Lebanon. They have a huge army and air force ready. Surely all the US should influence is Israel not going destroying more than that they can justify, I doubt they would be able to though

Israeli army is very stretched just now. 70% of them are in the West Bank dealing with uprising there. US may provide back up if Hezbollah open up another front in Lebanon.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Religion has a lot to answer for.

[Stairway 2 7]

Israeli army is very stretched just now. 70% of them are in the West Bank dealing with uprising there. US may provide back up if Hezbollah open up another front in Lebanon.


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The soldiers wouldn't be needed too much the airforce pretty much bombing unopposed amd glmrs, it would be like Russia in Syria flattening at will

[Hibernian Verse]

Religion has a lot to answer for.

Indeed. I don't mean to offend anyone but the fighting over whose sky fairy is better is mental in 2023.

[Ozyhibby]

Indeed. I don't mean to offend anyone but the fighting over whose sky fairy is better is mental in 2023.

That’s not what they are fighting over. They are fighting over land and resources same as always. Religion is just being used as a way dividing peoples.


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[Hibrandenburg]

That’s not what they are fighting over. They are fighting over land and resources same as always. Religion is just being used as a way dividing peoples.


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Considering Jews and Arabs share a hell of a lot of DNA and genetically speaking share recent common ancestry, it's a pretty safe bet that it was religion that divided the people in the first place and thus the territories.

[Keith_M]

It was tragic hearing the stories coming out of Israel about the atrocities committed by Hamas.

It's now just as tragic watching news reports of Israel taking revenge on the Gaza strip.

[Ozyhibby]

It was tragic hearing the stories coming out of Israel about the atrocities committed by Hamas.

It's now just as tragic watching news reports of Israel taking revenge on the Gaza strip.

I’m amazed that the death toll in Gaza so far hasn’t been higher given the devastation we can see on TV.


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[superfurryhibby]

Considering Jews and Arabs share a hell of a lot of DNA and genetically speaking share recent common ancestry, it's a pretty safe bet that it was religion that divided the people in the first place and thus the territories.

Their religions and cultural practices associated with religious belief share a lot in common too.

My social media is being bombarded by pro-Israeli stuff just now, it's interesting to see from the comments that the public appear much more inclined to take a critical view of the actions of the IDF than our mainstream media (radio for me rather than telly).

[superfurryhibby]

"We're fighting against human animals". Might as well call the Palestinians Untermenschen. Horrible dialogue.

I submitted a complaint about this, and the totally unbalanced approach to interview.

The IDF guy was very emotional, but he was also talking nonsense about Palestinians being able to leave their homes in advance of IDF actions and generally using the language of hatred and violence. It largely went unchallenged. Why was there not a representative of the Palestinian community on the programme or maybe someone from a human rights group?

[neil7908]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/11/humza-yousafs-wife-talks-of-parents-desperate-plight-trapped-in-gaza

This is horrific.

[Jack]

It was tragic hearing the stories coming out of Israel about the atrocities committed by Hamas.

It's now just as tragic watching news reports of Israel taking revenge on the Gaza strip.

https://twitter.com/DominicWaghorn/status/1711989119818076459?t=OZPGDZIj3jYUITR5HGP7bw&s=19

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/DominicWaghorn/status/1711989119818076459?t=OZPGDZIj3jYUITR5HGP7bw&s=19

Spokesperson for the isreali PM and Southern commander say child beheaded
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1712132220809298163

https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1712105176725590124

I don't know if it's true or not but it's a weird hill to die on either way. Bairns were shot in there house, hundreds of young people murdered at a festival, now bairns dying in their beds from bombing, grimm grimm

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/DominicWaghorn/status/1711989119818076459?t=OZPGDZIj3jYUITR5HGP7bw&s=19

Biden also says he's seen confirmation of children beheaded, monsters

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1712213009534496966

"It matters that Americans see what is happening. I have doing this a long time – I never thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children"

[Ozyhibby]

Biden also says he's seen confirmation of children beheaded, monsters

https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1712213009534496966

"It matters that Americans see what is happening. I have doing this a long time – I never thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children"

What happens in Gaza over the next few months is going to be absolutely horrific.


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[I'm_cabbaged]

What happens in Gaza over the next few months is going to be absolutely horrific.


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Yeah, was a situation that was never going to end well all along.

[Hibernian Verse]

That’s not what they are fighting over. They are fighting over land and resources same as always. Religion is just being used as a way dividing peoples.


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As below, territories divided by religion.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/charles_lister/status/1712522371020521848?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

6000 bombs dropped already.[emoji102]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/tbh4justice/status/1712189062252212493?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good to see dissenting voices in Isreal.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

As below, territories divided by religion.

There's a new podcast on BBC Sounds called 'mandate' that shows how Britain is totally responsible for the religion-based division in Palestine - quite deliberately, to concentrate power in political institutions in Israel, and religious institutions in Palestine. It's not actually religion that's at fault here - it's colonialism. Same story all over the world, even in Northern Ireland. Religion weaponised by empires.

[neil7908]

"Israeli military has told 1.1 millions Gazans to move to south, UN says."

“The United Nations considers it impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences,” UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric said in a statement.

“The United Nations strongly appeals for any such order, if confirmed, to be rescinded avoiding what could transform what is already a tragedy into a calamitous situation,” he said."

If this goes ahead I can't wait to see how our politicians, including human rights lawyer Keir Starmer, defend it.

[Ozyhibby]

"Israeli military has told 1.1 millions Gazans to move to south, UN says."

“The United Nations considers it impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences,” UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric said in a statement.

“The United Nations strongly appeals for any such order, if confirmed, to be rescinded avoiding what could transform what is already a tragedy into a calamitous situation,” he said."

If this goes ahead I can't wait to see how our politicians, including human rights lawyer Keir Starmer, defend it.

At least Tony Blair waited until he was elected before got he started with the war crimes.[emoji849]


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[Hibernian Verse]

There's a new podcast on BBC Sounds called 'mandate' that shows how Britain is totally responsible for the religion-based division in Palestine - quite deliberately, to concentrate power in political institutions in Israel, and religious institutions in Palestine. It's not actually religion that's at fault here - it's colonialism. Same story all over the world, even in Northern Ireland. Religion weaponised by empires.

Cheers I'll give that a listen

[Stairway 2 7]

Water needs returned immediately and aid let through. Isreal can't be carpet bombing and must be pushed by all sides just to hit military targets.

Voices and supporters should be also pleading for the murderous Hamas to release the hostages. They won't as a war suits both sides at the price of civilians

[Ozyhibby]

Water needs returned immediately and aid let through. Isreal can't be carpet bombing and must be pushed by all sides just to hit military targets.

Voices and supporters should be also pleading for the murderous Hamas to release the hostages. They won't as a war suits both sides at the price of civilians

I’m afraid none of that will happen. Isreal has been given the green light for more war crimes. I fear we are about to witness genocide.


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[marinello59]

Water needs returned immediately and aid let through. Isreal can't be carpet bombing and must be pushed by all sides just to hit military targets.

Voices and supporters should be also pleading for the murderous Hamas to release the hostages. They won't as a war suits both sides at the price of civilians

It’s not looking good, the USA Defence Secretary is currently standing next to his Israeli counterpart to express ironclad support. It’s deeply distressing, so many innocent people on both sides are going to face suffering on a scale those of us safe in the West can only imagine.

[Jones28]

"Israeli military has told 1.1 millions Gazans to move to south, UN says."

“The United Nations considers it impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences,” UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric said in a statement.

“The United Nations strongly appeals for any such order, if confirmed, to be rescinded avoiding what could transform what is already a tragedy into a calamitous situation,” he said."

If this goes ahead I can't wait to see how our politicians, including human rights lawyer Keir Starmer, defend it.

Make yourself 50% smaller and walk 12 miles without food or water to do so or we'll blow you up.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Hamas telling the civillian human sheilds to stay put.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/israel-hamas-war-iran-trap/675628/


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[Just Alf]

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/israel-hamas-war-iran-trap/675628/


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCan you add some info here to read?

Its behind a wall and I've been pestered enough after signing up to sites like this in the past :-(

[Green Reaper]

Can you add some info here to read?

Its behind a wall and I've been pestered enough after signing up to sites like this in the past :-(

If you open the link in'incognito' tab you should be able to read it, I think

[Pretty Boy]

Whatever you think of him when it comes to other matters it has to be said that Humza Yousaf has been a class act in the last couple of days. The man must be going through hell with his family situation but his attendance at this event and his actions whilst there are those of a real statesman:

https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1712866804156997684?t=7_nnJVeqL8Vq-ZxpFpOgug&s=19

[lapsedhibee]

Whatever you think of him when it comes to other matters it has to be said that Humza Yousaf has been a class act in the last couple of days. The man must be going through hell with his family situation but his attendance at this event and his actions whilst there are those of a real statesman:

https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1712866804156997684?t=7_nnJVeqL8Vq-ZxpFpOgug&s=19

Yep. Puts even Grant Schapps in the shade.

[Ozyhibby]

Whatever you think of him when it comes to other matters it has to be said that Humza Yousaf has been a class act in the last couple of days. The man must be going through hell with his family situation but his attendance at this event and his actions whilst there are those of a real statesman:

https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1712866804156997684?t=7_nnJVeqL8Vq-ZxpFpOgug&s=19

He has handled the situation very well.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1712893272975139258?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Horrific.


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[Keith_M]

https://x.com/charles_lister/status/1712522371020521848?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

6000 bombs dropped already.[emoji102]



"Gaza's death toll is now 1,420+, including 447 children & 248 women."


But the biggest complaint from some people in the UK is that the English FA aren't flying the Israeli flag.

Yeah, get your priorities right :rolleyes:

[tamig]

"Gaza's death toll is now 1,420+, including 447 children & 248 women."


But the biggest complaint from some people in the UK is that the English FA aren't flying the Israeli flag.

Yeah, get your priorities right :rolleyes:
I know. And the tories sticking their oar in yesterday to try and apply pressure to the FA. **** them.

[Pretty Boy]

I think it's safe to say the families of those murdered on Bloody Sunday didn't take too kindly to Bono's assesment of the situation on Israel and Gaza. Exerts from their released statement below:

'This is beyond outrageous - to have the memories of our innocent dead sullied by the apartheid forces of the Israeli state will cause great hurt and anger in Derry'

'223 innocent Palestinians were massacred at the Gaza border fence in 2018 and 2019 by the IDF. Shot by Israeli snipers, war criminals who were following in the tradition of the murderous parachute regiment in the Bogside'

'The UK government do not offer even the weakest condemnation of the Israeli state. It is clear from the legacy bill imposed on us and the statement of unequivocal support for Israel that there truly is no British justice'

[Ozyhibby]

https://youtu.be/Gg6LzfDHg3U?si=O2sMKjMZ4_-vAqkZ

Let’s hope his final point is correct. The people of Isreal and Palestine need to take over and get rid of both governments.


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[Ozyhibby]

I think it's safe to say the families of those murdered on Bloody Sunday didn't take too kindly to Bono's assesment of the situation on Israel and Gaza. Exerts from their released statement below:

'This is beyond outrageous - to have the memories of our innocent dead sullied by the apartheid forces of the Israeli state will cause great hurt and anger in Derry'

'223 innocent Palestinians were massacred at the Gaza border fence in 2018 and 2019 by the IDF. Shot by Israeli snipers, war criminals who were following in the tradition of the murderous parachute regiment in the Bogside'

'The UK government do not offer even the weakest condemnation of the Israeli state. It is clear from the legacy bill imposed on us and the statement of unequivocal support for Israel that there truly is no British justice'

It’s horrific to see our govt taking sides in this.


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[Moulin Yarns]

I want to share this from twitter


"I’m personally a Holocaust survivor as an infant, I barely survived. My grandparents were killed in Aushwitz and most of my extended family were killed. I became a Zionist; this dream of the Jewish people resurrected in their historical homeland and the barbed wire of Aushwitz being replaced by the boundaries of a Jewish state with a powerful army…and then I found out that it wasn’t exactly like that, that in order to make this Jewish dream a reality we had to visit a nightmare on the local population.

There’s no way you could have ever created a Jewish state without oppressing and expelling the local population. Jewish Israeli historians have shown without a doubt that the expulsion of Palestinians was persistent, pervasive, cruel, murderous and with deliberate intent - that’s what’s called the 'Nakba' in Arabic; the 'disaster' or the 'catastrophe'. There’s a law that you cannot deny the Holocaust, but in Israel you’re not allowed to mention the Nakba, even though it’s at the very basis of the foundation of Israel.

I visited the Occupied Territories (West Bank) during the first intifada. I cried every day for two weeks at what I saw; the brutality of the occupation, the petty harassment, the murderousness of it, the cutting down of Palestinian olive groves, the denial of water rights, the humiliations...and this went on, and now it’s much worse than it was then.

It’s the longest ethnic cleansing operation in the 20th and 21st century. I could land in Tel Aviv tomorrow and demand citizenship but my Palestinian friend in Vancouver, who was born in Jerusalem, can’t even visit!

So then you have these miserable people packed into this, horrible…people call it an 'outdoor prison', which is what it is. You don’t have to support Hamas policies to stand up for Palestinian rights, that’s a complete falsity. You think the worse thing you can say about Hamas, multiply it by a thousand times, and it still will not meet the Israeli repression and killing and dispossession of Palestinians.

And 'anybody who criticises Israel is an anti-Semite' is simply an egregious attempt to intimidate good non-Jews who are willing to stand up for what is true

[Pretty Boy]

I want to share this from twitter


"I’m personally a Holocaust survivor as an infant, I barely survived. My grandparents were killed in Aushwitz and most of my extended family were killed. I became a Zionist; this dream of the Jewish people resurrected in their historical homeland and the barbed wire of Aushwitz being replaced by the boundaries of a Jewish state with a powerful army…and then I found out that it wasn’t exactly like that, that in order to make this Jewish dream a reality we had to visit a nightmare on the local population.

There’s no way you could have ever created a Jewish state without oppressing and expelling the local population. Jewish Israeli historians have shown without a doubt that the expulsion of Palestinians was persistent, pervasive, cruel, murderous and with deliberate intent - that’s what’s called the 'Nakba' in Arabic; the 'disaster' or the 'catastrophe'. There’s a law that you cannot deny the Holocaust, but in Israel you’re not allowed to mention the Nakba, even though it’s at the very basis of the foundation of Israel.

I visited the Occupied Territories (West Bank) during the first intifada. I cried every day for two weeks at what I saw; the brutality of the occupation, the petty harassment, the murderousness of it, the cutting down of Palestinian olive groves, the denial of water rights, the humiliations...and this went on, and now it’s much worse than it was then.

It’s the longest ethnic cleansing operation in the 20th and 21st century. I could land in Tel Aviv tomorrow and demand citizenship but my Palestinian friend in Vancouver, who was born in Jerusalem, can’t even visit!

So then you have these miserable people packed into this, horrible…people call it an 'outdoor prison', which is what it is. You don’t have to support Hamas policies to stand up for Palestinian rights, that’s a complete falsity. You think the worse thing you can say about Hamas, multiply it by a thousand times, and it still will not meet the Israeli repression and killing and dispossession of Palestinians.

And 'anybody who criticises Israel is an anti-Semite' is simply an egregious attempt to intimidate good non-Jews who are willing to stand up for what is true

Is that Gabor Mate? If so then when he talks, everyone should listen.

[Moulin Yarns]

Is that Gabor Mate? If so then we talks, everyone should listen.

Yep. 👍

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/tvcritics/status/1712970316509544778?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[DaveF]

Reuters journalist killed on the Lebanese border yesterday and now a convoy heading south in Gaza has been hit with many dead.

Israel doing what Israel does.

[Pretty Boy]

3 BBC reporters were stopped and assaulted by Israeli Police last night as well. Provided their press ID and car was clearly marked as press.

It was the BBC Arabic service so I suppose that makes it ok in the mental discourse of the last few days.

[Ozyhibby]

Has there been any polling on the Isreal-Palestine issue? I don’t detect that much support for Isreal these days? Maybe it’s just the people I know.


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[Jones28]

If you support peace, what do you support? I don’t have a horse in this race other than not wanting people to die.

[Hibbyradge]

Has there been any polling on the Isreal-Palestine issue? I don’t detect that much support for Isreal these days? Maybe it’s just the people I know.


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I've only seen support for Israel most probably because they were attacked without warning.

I don't know what Hamas were trying to achieve by the attack. I can't condone it regardless of my political opinion on the whole situation.

[Ozyhibby]

I've only seen support for Israel most probably because they were attacked without warning.

I don't know what Hamas were trying to achieve by the attack. I can't condone it regardless of my political opinion on the whole situation.

I’d say they have probably achieved their objectives. The world is once again looking at the Palestinians plight.


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[lapsedhibee]

The world is once again looking at the Palestinians plight.


Yes. Before this week I didn't know there was a Nakba Day. Though I suspect many will now just be thinking Palestinians=Terrorists.

[MKHIBEE]

Yes. Before this week I didn't know there was a Nakba Day. Though I suspect many will now just be thinking Palestinians=Terrorists.
After being told by every western media outlet that that is the case.

[lapsedhibee]

There's a new podcast on BBC Sounds called 'mandate' that shows how Britain is totally responsible for the religion-based division in Palestine - quite deliberately, to concentrate power in political institutions in Israel, and religious institutions in Palestine. It's not actually religion that's at fault here - it's colonialism.

Good podcast, ta. Think some of the responsibility for strife there lies with Hitler and his chums.

[lapsedhibee]

After being told by every western media outlet that that is the case.

Matt Frei on Ch4 News has noticeably not been taking that line, so not quite every outlet. And Yousaf has been good when he's been speaking. But agree with your general point.

[marinello59]

After being told by every western media outlet that that is the case.

The BBC has been criticised all week for not referring to Hamas as terrorists.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231015/3b8c38d9df6b7fa9ba7753768ec535c5.jpg

Starmer having to U-turn. It’s good I guess but the fact that his first instinct is to support war crimes is worrying.


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[Pretty Boy]

Yes. Before this week I didn't know there was a Nakba Day. Though I suspect many will now just be thinking Palestinians=Terrorists.

I think there is a narrative presented that killing by people in uniform is more palatable than killing by those not. In reality any civilian death should be treate for the appalling act it is. Anyone with a semblance of empathy surely condemns the actions of Hamas last weekend. It was indiscriminate, it was savage and it was carried out with a cold and ruthless detachment that is utterly chilling. However the figures speak for themselves, since last weekend more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis and the number is going to grow exponentially on only one side now. The last time elections were held in Gaza 58% of the population voted for Hamas. Today the majority of the population is under 18 with a whopping 41% under 14. There is no way of knowing what these people feel about their leadership because they have never had a say. Yet their deaths, because with the demographics of Gaza it stands to reason many of the near 1500 dead will be these children, is almost seen as unpalatable but acceptable (by some) because it's retaliatory. We are seeing war crimes play out with approval, and not even tacit approval, from the leaders of the UK, EU and US among others. Calling for humanitarian aid is all very well but the situation would be better served by calls for restraint from Israel and an insistence they act within international law. Cutting off water and electricity is collective punishment and that is illegal. Ordering 1.1M people to evacuate in a 48 hour window is a death sentence for those unable to do so for various legitimate reasons. That's collective punishment and illegal. Attacking convoys as they leave on said safe routes is illegal. Attacking and even killing marked journalists is illegal.

Interestingly when he swept back to power Netanyahu spoke quite openly about having to get money into the hands of Hamas, to empower Hamas and to embolden them. His desire was to drive an even greater wedge between Palestinians in the West Bank and Palestinians in Gaza. Whilst I would stop short of saying he welcomed last weekend attacks, I'm sure he will welcome the opportunity to exploit them. He has 'just cause' to obliterate Gaza now. It will be uninhabitable by this time next week and once the Palestinian populace leaves they won't be coming back. He knows in the West Bank he can continue to occupy territory with impunity.

We are on the verge of seeing 2M+ people killed or displaced. Hamas have played into Netanyahu's hands and I don't see him missing the opportunity. The bigger question is what the reasoning was of those who funded and equipped this Hamas attack (Israel themselves aside).

[Jones28]

A convoy of vehicles has been blown up by the IDF. A 2 and 5 year old along the victims.

I’ve deleted my Twitter account, it’s just too much.

[neil7908]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231015/3b8c38d9df6b7fa9ba7753768ec535c5.jpg

Starmer having to U-turn. It’s good I guess but the fact that his first instinct is to support war crimes is worrying.


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The problem is Israel are already breaking International law, and have been doing so for decades. It's calling them out that's the hard part and I see nothing here that suggests he will do so as PM.

[DaveF]

The problem is Israel are already breaking International law, and have been doing so for decades. It's calling them out that's the hard part and I see nothing here that suggests he will do so as PM.

He won't do anything bar the usual lip service.

What Hamas did was despicable. What Israel is about to do is going to be 100 times worse but our country will stand by and support it.

[Stairway 2 7]

Isreal have been committing war crimes consistently for a decade. Regardless after 1200 of its citizens were murdered by Hamas, Isreal has the right to destroy them. They should only target military targets, although they won't. They also need humanitarian corridors and aid to get in, that won't happen either. It's complicated by Egypt building border walls to keep them out, they don't want Hamas entering when they have spent a decade destroying their own version.

Hamas needs separated from the people of Gaza and the Isreali army from Israeli's and Jews. In a poll in the Jerusalem Post Isreali's wanted retribution against Hamas but 2 thirds also blamed Netanyahu so hopefully he can get removed and his right wing bile ended.

[BigKev]

A convoy of vehicles has been blown up by the IDF. A 2 and 5 year old along the victims.

I’ve deleted my Twitter account, it’s just too much.

IDF claim it was a Hamas booby trap on the road. There were no Israeli bombs in that area at the time.

[Ozyhibby]

https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-245-gaza-beyond-de-development?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=192845&post_id=137905996&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=5205r&utm_medium=email

Why Gaza is what it is.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/skynews/status/1713561893212668399?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Water getting turned back on.


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[Pretty Boy]

https://x.com/skynews/status/1713561893212668399?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Water getting turned back on.


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The fact it's mentioned that Joe Biden was involved in the decision is hopefully a hint that the US has intimated to Israel they can't just do what they want with complete impunity.

Turning the water back on is a small step but a good one even if it is mental we are almost praising a country for allowing the most basic of human rights.

[Ozyhibby]

The fact it's mentioned that Joe Biden was involved in the decision is hopefully a hint that the US has intimated to Israel they can't just do what they want with complete impunity.

Turning the water back on is a small step but a good one even if it is mental we are almost praising a country for allowing the most basic of human rights.

It’s only been turned back on in the south apparently to encourage them to all move south.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/charlie533080/status/1713642007908798529?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Thread worth a read.


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[Ozyhibby]

More than a 1000 Palestinian children killed so far.


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[DaveF]

More than a 1000 Palestinian children killed so far.


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So, so depressingly predictable. And we wil stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel while they kill many more and forcibly displace hundreds of thousands more.

[MKHIBEE]

More than a 1000 Palestinian children killed so far.


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So much for not targeting innocents. Shameful, predictable, avoidable and supported by many in the west. As has been the case for many years, under the guise of “ defending ourselves”.

[BigKev]

Give @sentdefender a follow on Twitter. Some horrific open source videos on there from last weekend.

There’s no winners in this war of attrition. Hamas don’t give a flying one about civilians on either side, Israel will simply claim civilian deaths are a consequence of war.

Joe Biden due to visit various Middle Eastern states, there needs to be a clear plan drawn up to allow both sides to live in peace but I’m not convinced Biden has the power to make it happen. Always comes across as being a bit soft when it comes to negotiations. The release of Viktor Bout being an example.

[superfurryhibby]

Dear Audience Member

To allow us to reply promptly to your concerns, and to ensure we use our licence fee resources as efficiently as possible, we are sending this response to everyone. We are sorry not to reply individually, but we hope this will address the points you have raised.

We understand that this is an extremely worrying time for people not only in the region, but also in the UK and around the world, and we have reflected this in our coverage.

BBC News has provided our global audiences with coverage and first-hand testimony of the atrocities committed by Hamas, and the suffering in Gaza. We have made clear the devastating human cost to civilians living in Israel and Gaza, and the unprecedented nature of what has happened. The huge loss of civilian life on both sides makes this a shocking and difficult story to cover.

Our correspondents have been to the scenes of attacks, massacres and potential war crimes; and reported on the harrowing scenes they have witnessed.

We have reported on the atrocities committed by Hamas in their assault on Israel and have heard many accounts from survivors of these attacks and family members of the victims, reflecting the trauma they are suffering.

On the ground in Gaza our teams have reported on the rising death toll from Israeli air strikes and the unfolding humanitarian crisis, as rockets destroy buildings, power and water supplies are cut and thousands try to move out of the way of danger.

We have reflected statements from the UN and NGOs. We have interviewed representatives of the Israeli government, Hamas and UK government ministers and asked whether international law is being adhered to.

BBC News has also examined the history and complexities of the Israel-Palestinian conflict and analysed the potential consequences of the war for the wider region. Our reporting has included opinions from all sides, the region and the wider world.

We have previously covered the escalation in tensions between Israel and the Palestinians, and the reasons for it.

Careful consideration has been given to all aspects of our coverage to ensure that we report on developments accurately and with due impartiality in line with the BBC Editorial Guidelines, which are publicly available.

The BBC, along with many other UK and global news organisations, does use the word “terrorist”, but attributes it. We have made clear to our audiences that Hamas is proscribed as a terrorist organisation by the UK and other governments. The use of attribution is required by our Editorial Guidelines:

https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines

We know that our audiences turn to us for clarity and to help them separate fact from fake. We know that trust is earned and we do not take that for granted.

We welcome your feedback as we strive to safeguard our reputation as the world’s most trusted news organisation.  

BBC Complaints Team

[Ozyhibby]

Dear Audience Member

To allow us to reply promptly to your concerns, and to ensure we use our licence fee resources as efficiently as possible, we are sending this response to everyone. We are sorry not to reply individually, but we hope this will address the points you have raised.

We understand that this is an extremely worrying time for people not only in the region, but also in the UK and around the world, and we have reflected this in our coverage.

BBC News has provided our global audiences with coverage and first-hand testimony of the atrocities committed by Hamas, and the suffering in Gaza. We have made clear the devastating human cost to civilians living in Israel and Gaza, and the unprecedented nature of what has happened. The huge loss of civilian life on both sides makes this a shocking and difficult story to cover.

Our correspondents have been to the scenes of attacks, massacres and potential war crimes; and reported on the harrowing scenes they have witnessed.

We have reported on the atrocities committed by Hamas in their assault on Israel and have heard many accounts from survivors of these attacks and family members of the victims, reflecting the trauma they are suffering.

On the ground in Gaza our teams have reported on the rising death toll from Israeli air strikes and the unfolding humanitarian crisis, as rockets destroy buildings, power and water supplies are cut and thousands try to move out of the way of danger.

We have reflected statements from the UN and NGOs. We have interviewed representatives of the Israeli government, Hamas and UK government ministers and asked whether international law is being adhered to.

BBC News has also examined the history and complexities of the Israel-Palestinian conflict and analysed the potential consequences of the war for the wider region. Our reporting has included opinions from all sides, the region and the wider world.

We have previously covered the escalation in tensions between Israel and the Palestinians, and the reasons for it.

Careful consideration has been given to all aspects of our coverage to ensure that we report on developments accurately and with due impartiality in line with the BBC Editorial Guidelines, which are publicly available.

The BBC, along with many other UK and global news organisations, does use the word “terrorist”, but attributes it. We have made clear to our audiences that Hamas is proscribed as a terrorist organisation by the UK and other governments. The use of attribution is required by our Editorial Guidelines:

https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines

We know that our audiences turn to us for clarity and to help them separate fact from fake. We know that trust is earned and we do not take that for granted.

We welcome your feedback as we strive to safeguard our reputation as the world’s most trusted news organisation.  

BBC Complaints Team

BBC said at the weekend that marches on the UK showing solidarity with Palestinians were pro Hamas. It’s no longer an organisation that can be trusted.


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[Paul1642]

BBC said at the weekend that marches on the UK showing solidarity with Palestinians were pro Hamas. It’s no longer an organisation that can be trusted.


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Meanwhile the pro Isreal side of social media are claiming that the BBC is pro hamas / anti Isreal.

They generally are pretty balanced and factual in their reporting and get slated from both sides for doing so.

[Ozyhibby]

Meanwhile the pro Isreal side of social media are claiming that the BBC is pro hamas / anti Isreal.

They generally are pretty balanced and factual in their reporting and get slated from both sides for doing so.

What’s factual about labelling support for Palestinians as supporting Hamas?


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[Paul1642]

What’s factual about labelling support for Palestinians as supporting Hamas?


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I haven’t seen the article, got a link?

[grunt]

BBC said at the weekend that marches on the UK showing solidarity with Palestinians were pro Hamas. It’s no longer an organisation that can be trusted.
Where have you been for the last 10 years?? :greengrin

[marinello59]

Meanwhile the pro Isreal side of social media are claiming that the BBC is pro hamas / anti Isreal.

They generally are pretty balanced and factual in their reporting and get slated from both sides for doing so.

People see what they want to see and take things out of context to suit their own agenda. The BBC does a good job with things like this as they are doing again.

[MKHIBEE]

Meanwhile the pro Isreal side of social media are claiming that the BBC is pro hamas / anti Isreal.

They generally are pretty balanced and factual in their reporting and get slated from both sides for doing so.
We must listen to different BBC news channels then if you think that

[Ozyhibby]

People see what they want to see and take things out of context to suit their own agenda. The BBC does a good job with things like this as they are doing again.

Labelling people pro Hamas for marching against the bombing of Gaza is not doing a good job.


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[Paul1642]

Labelling people pro Hamas for marching against the bombing of Gaza is not doing a good job.


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I’ve still not seen the link to this.

[Stairway 2 7]

Labelling people pro Hamas for marching against the bombing of Gaza is not doing a good job.


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I've not seen them say the marchers were pro Hamas. People are complaining that the BBC are refusing to call Hamas terrorist and the attack on Israel a terrorist attack, they are using Militant apparently.

[Ozyhibby]

I’ve still not seen the link to this.

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1713898357591019924?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Paul1642]

So it’s not stating that people who were marching against the bombing are pro Hamas. Exact words are

“Several demonstrations across Britain during which people voiced their backing for Hamas”

Factualy accurate then: individual people at demonstrations across Britain did voice support for Hamas.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/woman-arrested-on-suspicion-of-supporting-hamas-as-hundreds-of-officers-set-to-police-pro-palestine-protest-12983969

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/palestine-protests-paraglider-israel-hamas-b2429995.html

https://www.removepaywall.com/article/current

[Just Alf]

Don't know all the rights and wrongs but watching the bbc news on Sunday, both Israeli IDF and Palestinian spokesmen were annoyed at the tone of the BBC questioning

[marinello59]

Labelling people pro Hamas for marching against the bombing of Gaza is not doing a good job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know you think you saw this but I can’t find the evidence. Do you have a link.

Edit.. Link you did provide didn’t show that had happened.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/bedier/status/1714321074999927227?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

BBC apology.


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[Keith_M]

So it’s not stating that people who were marching against the bombing are pro Hamas. Exact words are

“Several demonstrations across Britain during which people voiced their backing for Hamas”

...


TBF, I can see why some people are annoyed about that, as it's worded in such a way that it could be interpreted as saying that was the purpose of the protests.

I'm not suggesting that was their intention, but I do feel it's badly worded.

[Dalianwanda]

reportedly 500 killed in israeli airstrike on a hospital .... Isreal "looking into it"...This is just sickening

[tamig]

Labelling people pro Hamas for marching against the bombing of Gaza is not doing a good job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where was this? I listen to 5 Live all the time and never heard such nonsense.

[JimBHibees]

TBF, I can see why some people are annoyed about that, as it's worded in such a way that it could be interpreted as saying that was the purpose of the protests.

I'm not suggesting that was their intention, but I do feel it's badly worded.

Yep very duplicitous wording. Typical beeb

[MKHIBEE]

reportedly 500 killed in israeli airstrike on a hospital .... Isreal "looking into it"...This is just sickening

Unfortunately I think this is only the beginning of Israel’s genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza

[JimBHibees]

reportedly 500 killed in israeli airstrike on a hospital .... Isreal "looking into it"...This is just sickening

All western leaders fully backing Israel should be taken to the site of that.

[cameronw-hfc]

El Ghazi, ex Villa and Everton, released by Mainz after posting a pro Palestine insta story.

[tamig]

IDF claiming the hospital blast was caused by a failed Hamas rocket launch.

[Callum_62]

IDF claiming the hospital blast was caused by a failed Hamas rocket launch.Failed Hamas rocket..... leftover Hamas bobby trap

I smell......well.

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[Keith_M]

El Ghazi, ex Villa and Everton, released by Mainz after posting a pro Palestine insta story.


This is mentioned in a number of newspapers but none of them have said what he posted.

It would be interesting to know what that was before deciding if his club's decision was acceptable, or an over-reaction.

[BigKev]

Failed Hamas rocket..... leftover Hamas bobby trap

I smell......well.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Even if it turns out the attack is a failed rocket launch by Palestine Jihad then the job is done. Hamas calling it out as an Israeli air strike is what all Islamic countries will believe.

[Stairway 2 7]

This is mentioned in a number of newspapers but none of them have said what he posted.

It would be interesting to know what that was before deciding if his club's decision was acceptable, or an over-reaction.

I think they are claiming he posted from the river to the sea Palestine will be free, which basically means no Isreal

[Stairway 2 7]

Humza comes out to condem isreal for the war crime.

Isreal say they have the evidence it was a failed rocket attack on Isreal by Hamas.

Most osint accounts on twitter who have no skin in the game are saying it looks like a failed rocket. Lots of videos but I'll wait until they analyse more before I'd say. Horrible tragedy regardless and it'll be one of many regardless

[Paul1642]

Horrible human tragedy regardless of who is to blame :(

Whoever is proven to be responsible has committed a horrendous atrocity as well as a colossal political own goal.

[Paul1642]

Humza comes out to condem isreal for the war crime.

Isreal say they have the evidence it was a failed rocket attack on Isreal by Hamas.

Most osint accounts on twitter who have no skin in the game are saying it looks like a failed rocket. Lots of videos but I'll wait until they analyse more before I'd say. Horrible tragedy regardless and it'll be one of many regardless

The OSNIT page that I have been following now seems pretty certain that it’s been a Hamas missile that caused the hospital deaths (they have been pretty spot on with all reporting so far). It is also now reporting 2 minutes ago that the IDF northern command is braced for an imminent attack from Southern Lebanon.

As if it was even possible this war looks like potentially taking a turn for the worse tonight and potentially based on completely false information (although Hezbollah have probably been waiting for their moment to join since the start). Horrendous and as always it’s the civilians who will suffer worst on all sides :(

[MKHIBEE]

Humza comes out to condem isreal for the war crime.

Isreal say they have the evidence it was a failed rocket attack on Isreal by Hamas.

Most osint accounts on twitter who have no skin in the game are saying it looks like a failed rocket. Lots of videos but I'll wait until they analyse more before I'd say. Horrible tragedy regardless and it'll be one of many regardless
That will be like the evidence they had that Hamas beheaded children.

Isreal claim it was an Islamic Jihad group, not Hamas

[BigKev]

That will be like the evidence they had that Hamas beheaded children.

Isreal claim it was an Islamic Jihad group, not Hamas

They’ve now released the intercepted audio.

[Stairway 2 7]

That will be like the evidence they had that Hamas beheaded children.

Isreal claim it was an Islamic Jihad group, not Hamas

Both sides will blame the other the best bet is to ignore them and listen to independent investigators.

I think Corbyn and Yousaf were daft to blame Israel. Although it could be Israel it would be better to say its a tragedy and were waiting for the evidence.

Israel have plenty war crimes on their hands if you blame them for something that wasn't them it gives them an excuse for the atrocities they cause.

Biden has just said the evidence points to Hamas misfire.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'd say every osint accounts are analysing it was a Hamas misfire

Nathan Russer of bellingcat has been helping shine a light on isreali war crimes well before this war. He says he thinks it was a misfire and dubious of 500 dead from the limited damage. Probably not best to believe what terrorists say as gospel
https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1714535497958334678

Here's a run down of last night and a video of the misfire
https://twitter.com/talhagin/status/1714416463136559592

Hospital building isn't badly damaged this morning just some glass and also no crater
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714525590873575600


I agree with this there will be no backtracking people are too divided, the damage is done and escalation will happen.

OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical
·
Honestly a bunch of people are going to have to come to terms with the fact that they fell victim to incredibly weak propaganda that was unintentionally refuted by the source in a convincing manner less than 12 hours later

Oh who am I kidding there’s absolutely no way they will

[MKHIBEE]

They’ve now released the intercepted audio.
I’m sure that could easily be set up to look however they want it to look.

[MKHIBEE]

I'd say every osint accounts are analysing it was a Hamas misfire

Nathan Russer of bellingcat has been helping shine a light on isreali war crimes well before this war. He says he thinks it was a misfire and dubious of 500 dead from the limited damage. Probably not best to believe what terrorists say as gospel
https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1714535497958334678

Here's a run down of last night and a video of the misfire
https://twitter.com/talhagin/status/1714416463136559592

Hospital building isn't badly damaged this morning just some glass and also no crater
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714525590873575600


I agree with this there will be no backtracking people are too divided, the damage is done and escalation will happen.

OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical
·
Honestly a bunch of people are going to have to come to terms with the fact that they fell victim to incredibly weak propaganda that was unintentionally refuted by the source in a convincing manner less than 12 hours later

Oh who am I kidding there’s absolutely no way they will

Or anything the Isreali state says. They have been murdering men, women and children for years whilst terrorising the Palestinian community and lying about it.

[MKHIBEE]

Both sides will blame the other the best bet is to ignore them and listen to independent investigators.

I think Corbyn and Yousaf were daft to blame Israel. Although it could be Israel it would be better to say its a tragedy and were waiting for the evidence.

Israel have plenty war crimes on their hands if you blame them for something that wasn't them it gives them an excuse for the atrocities they cause.

Biden has just said the evidence points to Hamas misfire.


Which “independent” investigators do you recommend?

[Stairway 2 7]

Which “independent” investigators do you recommend?

I like bellingcat. They have uncovered or disproved lots of war crimes, especially US, UK, Isreali and Russian.

They done amazing work when Isreal murdered journalists Shireen Abu Akleh and tried to cover it up. They basically do online detective work, use satellite imagery, phone videos and geolocation ect.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2022/05/14/unravelling-the-killing-of-shireen-abu-akleh/

I don't believe most of what governments say whether that is Russia, Ukraine, Isreal or UK. Fortunately due to the above info like satellite imagery being open access, it's harder for governments to lie, although they still will even if the evidence is clear

[Stairway 2 7]

Or anything the Isreali state says. They have been murdering men, women and children for years whilst terrorising the Palestinian community and lying about it.

Yep and two of the 3 I posted above have proven dozens of Isreali war crimes in the face of Isreali pressure and disinformation

[Paul1642]

Yep and two of the 3 I posted above have proven dozens of Isreali war crimes in the face of Isreali pressure and disinformation

Some people don’t want to hear independent analysis. They want the side that fits their narrative.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/peston/status/1714602198762418548?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Flynn calls for cease fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MKHIBEE]

I like bellingcat. They have uncovered or disproved lots of war crimes, especially US, UK, Isreali and Russian.

They done amazing work when Isreal murdered journalists Shireen Abu Akleh and tried to cover it up. They basically do online detective work, use satellite imagery, phone videos and geolocation ect.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2022/05/14/unravelling-the-killing-of-shireen-abu-akleh/

I don't believe most of what governments say whether that is Russia, Ukraine, Isreal or UK. Fortunately due to the above info like satellite imagery being open access, it's harder for governments to lie, although they still will even if the evidence is clear
What is disturbing, as shown by Bellingcat, is the amount of absolute nonsense that is posted on X, formerly twitter. I no longer use X, it is a cesspit.

[Stairway 2 7]

What is disturbing, as shown by Bellingcat, is the amount of absolute nonsense that is posted on X, formerly twitter. I no longer use X, it is a cesspit.

It's got worse. But it's easy to just follow legitimate journalists and organisations. If a random shares on twitter you have to automatically check the source yourself.

The problem is there is no alternative site. The big media companies basically just share what they get from twitter. It was too important a site to give to Musk.

[Mon Dieu4]

What is disturbing, as shown by Bellingcat, is the amount of absolute nonsense that is posted on X, formerly twitter. I no longer use X, it is a cesspit.

I keep seeing folk say stuff like that, from my experience it's no different now to how it's ever been

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/peston/status/1714602198762418548?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Flynn calls for cease fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was another one who jumped in a bit and just took a terrorist organisation at its word saying "It is very difficult to understand why a hospital was targeted". Although I agree with the humanitarian ceasefire

Humza doubled down today saying we need to prove it but then says but then says "it was a complete breach of international law the targeting of a hospital." He says it need condemned in the fullest, it does even if its Hamas. He's obviously stressed and too close to the situation, but we don't need Hamas words parroted to the nation.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1714538375296815122

Although even American Osint accounts are saying the BBC was hopeless in jumping in.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714472065208602639


It's clearly a tragedy either way. I fear it will embolden isreal to deny the rest of the war crimes they will no doubt commit in the next year

[Ozyhibby]

He was another one who jumped in a bit and just took a terrorist organisation at its word saying "It is very difficult to understand why a hospital was targeted". Although I agree with the humanitarian ceasefire

Humza doubled down today saying we need to prove it but then says but then says "it was a complete breach of international law the targeting of a hospital." He says it need condemned in the fullest, it does even if its Hamas. He's obviously stressed and too close to the situation, but we don't need Hamas words parroted to the nation.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1714538375296815122

Although even American Osint accounts are saying the BBC was hopeless in jumping in.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714472065208602639


It's clearly a tragedy either way. I fear it will embolden isreal to deny the rest of the war crimes they will no doubt commit in the next year

You wonder what Isreal think it will achieve? What is their end game?


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[Kato]

You wonder what Isreal think it will achieve? What is their end game?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFulfill perceived Biblical prophecy and be the fulcrum of the Apocalypse?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[MKHIBEE]

You wonder what Isreal think it will achieve? What is their end game?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 3 men who make up their war cabinet would happily see the destruction of all things Palestinian.

[Stairway 2 7]

You wonder what Isreal think it will achieve? What is their end game?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How do you stop an ideology, how did America do crushing the taliban. The difference is America half pretended it wanted to set up a fair state once they left. Isreal barely acknowledges Palestinians right to exist.

They aren't going to achieve anything, but their voters want retribution. I don't understand what Hamas were thinking although escalation probably suits

[Keith_M]

I think they are claiming he posted from the river to the sea Palestine will be free, which basically means no Isreal


OK, that's unfortunate.

[grunt]

They’ve now released the intercepted audio.


I’m sure that could easily be set up to look however they want it to look.

https://x.com/alextomo/status/1714670858914894046?s=20

Several experts confirm Hamas’ view to @Channel4News that the audio tape of “Hamas” operatives talking about the missile malfunction is a fake . They say the tone, syntax, accent and idiom are absurd.

[superfurryhibby]

Will we see a UN resolution demanding a ceasefire?

Biden is due to visit Israel today and Guterres in Egypt on Thursday, surely diplomatic leverage will have some influence on both sides?

"The UN Special Coordinator and I are engaging with leaders in the region to express our concern, our outrage, and to advance efforts to avoid any spillover to the wider Middle East. This most recent violence does not come in a vacuum. The reality is that it grows out of a long-standing conflict, with a 56-year long occupation, and no political end in sight. It’s time to end this vicious circle of bloodshed, hatred and polarization. — ANTÓNIO GUTERRES"

https://www.un.org/sg/en?_gl=1%2Au3nky4%2A_ga%2AMzgwNjQyNDguMTY5NzY0NDQ4 NQ..%2A_ga_S5EKZKSB78%2AMTY5NzY0NDQ4NC4xLjEuMTY5Nz Y0NDYwNy42MC4wLjA.%2A_ga_TK9BQL5X7Z%2AMTY5NzY0NDQ4 NC4xLjEuMTY5NzY0NDU3NS4wLjAuMA..

[Ozyhibby]

Will we see a UN resolution demanding a ceasefire?

Biden is due to visit Israel today and Guterres in Egypt on Thursday, surely diplomatic leverage will have some influence on both sides?

"The UN Special Coordinator and I are engaging with leaders in the region to express our concern, our outrage, and to advance efforts to avoid any spillover to the wider Middle East. This most recent violence does not come in a vacuum. The reality is that it grows out of a long-standing conflict, with a 56-year long occupation, and no political end in sight. It’s time to end this vicious circle of bloodshed, hatred and polarization. — ANTÓNIO GUTERRES"

https://www.un.org/sg/en?_gl=1%2Au3nky4%2A_ga%2AMzgwNjQyNDguMTY5NzY0NDQ4 NQ..%2A_ga_S5EKZKSB78%2AMTY5NzY0NDQ4NC4xLjEuMTY5Nz Y0NDYwNy42MC4wLjA.%2A_ga_TK9BQL5X7Z%2AMTY5NzY0NDQ4 NC4xLjEuMTY5NzY0NDU3NS4wLjAuMA..

We need more of that kind of talk.


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[Stairway 2 7]

US government Spokesperson says pentagon independently assessed it was misfire rocket from Hamas. Bellingcat says the crater is under 30cm deep and doesn't look like it's from an Isreali jdam.

Adrienne Watson
@NSC_Spox
"While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday."


John Burn Murdoch from the FT says in a thread that the mainstream media got it wrong partly because none of them have OSINT teams, like I've mentioned today

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1714648538746118265
Some quick thoughts on why large parts of the mainstream media keep slipping up on Gaza/Israel (and why it was the same at times with Covid):

The main reason is a failure to keep pace with modern news gathering techniques, but there’s more.

With the proliferation of photos/footage, satellite imagery and map data, forensic video/image analysis and geolocation (~OSINT) has clearly been a key news gathering technique for several years now. A key news gathering technique *completely absent from most newsrooms*.

Obviously not every journalist should be an OSINT specialist, just as not every journalist is a specialist in combing through financial accounts, or scraping websites, or doing undercover investigations. But any large news org should have *some* OSINT specialists

Some of the biggest international news orgs now do have OSINT teams (or similar). @washingtonpost calls theirs “visual forensics”, @nytimes and @FT go with “visual investigations”. But most news orgs, even large ones, still don’t.

This means that when you have events unfolding rapidly amid a fog of war, most news orgs are still completely reliant on what they’re told by their sources. This isn’t ideal at the best of times, but especially so when different sources are clearly motivated to mislead.

It was the same during Covid, when everyone was quoting officials talking about things that could easily be checked and sometimes debunked by someone capable of doing their own data analysis. But there weren’t enough of those skills in newsrooms, so unchecked claims abounded.

Even when newsrooms have built up these resources (whether OSINT or data) the newness of those teams means there’s some initial wariness about relying on new people (often young and not from traditional journalism backgrounds, so considered outsiders) for massive news lines.

The result is most mainstream news orgs today are either simply not equipped to determine for themselves what’s happening in some of the world’s biggest stories, or lack the confidence to allow their in-house technical specialists to cast doubt on a star reporter’s trusted source
So you end up with situations where huge, respected news organisations are reporting as fact things that have already been shown by technically adept news gatherers outside newsrooms to be false or at the very least highly uncertain. It’s hugely damaging to trust in journalism.
Even without an in-house OSINT team, organisations like @bellingcat and @airwars have been around for almost a decade now to assist. With a situation like Gaza/Israel, any time you’re getting a comment from an official spokesperson, you should also be getting a comment from OSINT
Of course, news orgs also don’t help themselves by insisting on coming out with definitive takes immediately.

I obviously get the desire to be first, and the instinctive dislike of ambiguity.

But in situations like this, surely it’s better to be second and definitively correct?

Plus, with the sheer amount of footage these days, and the number of OSINT specialists combing through it, we’re often only talking about waiting a few hours.
I’m sure mainstream media will catch up, but it needs to happen fast in order to retain trust and even relevance, or readers will go elsewhere.

“According to a spokesperson” just doesn’t really cut it when the primary evidence is right there.
Beyond OSINT, I think the overarching issue is:

There’s an implicit assumption in most of journalism that the only way to find out what’s happening is to ask someone.

For years now it’s been possible to do better than that, but the industry has not fully taken this on board.

One final thought:

Fact-checks after the fact are inherently limited. “A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on”.

Forensic, investigative, truth-seeking work should be a proactive part of breaking news coverage, not a reactive add-on afterwards

[Stairway 2 7]

We need more of that kind of talk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

An hour after Biden arrive Isreal has said they will open a humanitarian corridor and the US has announced $100 in aid. Hopefully he keeps up the pressure, perhaps one of the few they will listen too

[MKHIBEE]

An hour after Biden arrive Isreal has said they will open a humanitarian corridor and the US has announced $100 in aid. Hopefully he keeps up the pressure, perhaps one of the few they will listen too
The aid will only be allowed to come in through Egypt , not from the Israeli side of the border.

[grunt]

An hour after Biden arrive Isreal has said they will open a humanitarian corridor and the US has announced $100 in aid. Hopefully he keeps up the pressure, perhaps one of the few they will listen too
Bit disappointed to be honest.

[Stairway 2 7]

Bit disappointed to be honest.

Ha ffs. Would still be more than Isreal tbf

[JimBHibees]

US government Spokesperson says pentagon independently assessed it was misfire rocket from Hamas. Bellingcat says the crater is under 30cm deep and doesn't look like it's from an Isreali jdam.

Adrienne Watson
@NSC_Spox
"While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday."


John Burn Murdoch from the FT says in a thread that the mainstream media got it wrong partly because none of them have OSINT teams, like I've mentioned today

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1714648538746118265
Some quick thoughts on why large parts of the mainstream media keep slipping up on Gaza/Israel (and why it was the same at times with Covid):

The main reason is a failure to keep pace with modern news gathering techniques, but there’s more.

With the proliferation of photos/footage, satellite imagery and map data, forensic video/image analysis and geolocation (~OSINT) has clearly been a key news gathering technique for several years now. A key news gathering technique *completely absent from most newsrooms*.

Obviously not every journalist should be an OSINT specialist, just as not every journalist is a specialist in combing through financial accounts, or scraping websites, or doing undercover investigations. But any large news org should have *some* OSINT specialists

Some of the biggest international news orgs now do have OSINT teams (or similar). @washingtonpost calls theirs “visual forensics”, @nytimes and @FT go with “visual investigations”. But most news orgs, even large ones, still don’t.

This means that when you have events unfolding rapidly amid a fog of war, most news orgs are still completely reliant on what they’re told by their sources. This isn’t ideal at the best of times, but especially so when different sources are clearly motivated to mislead.

It was the same during Covid, when everyone was quoting officials talking about things that could easily be checked and sometimes debunked by someone capable of doing their own data analysis. But there weren’t enough of those skills in newsrooms, so unchecked claims abounded.

Even when newsrooms have built up these resources (whether OSINT or data) the newness of those teams means there’s some initial wariness about relying on new people (often young and not from traditional journalism backgrounds, so considered outsiders) for massive news lines.

The result is most mainstream news orgs today are either simply not equipped to determine for themselves what’s happening in some of the world’s biggest stories, or lack the confidence to allow their in-house technical specialists to cast doubt on a star reporter’s trusted source
So you end up with situations where huge, respected news organisations are reporting as fact things that have already been shown by technically adept news gatherers outside newsrooms to be false or at the very least highly uncertain. It’s hugely damaging to trust in journalism.
Even without an in-house OSINT team, organisations like @bellingcat and @airwars have been around for almost a decade now to assist. With a situation like Gaza/Israel, any time you’re getting a comment from an official spokesperson, you should also be getting a comment from OSINT
Of course, news orgs also don’t help themselves by insisting on coming out with definitive takes immediately.

I obviously get the desire to be first, and the instinctive dislike of ambiguity.

But in situations like this, surely it’s better to be second and definitively correct?

Plus, with the sheer amount of footage these days, and the number of OSINT specialists combing through it, we’re often only talking about waiting a few hours.
I’m sure mainstream media will catch up, but it needs to happen fast in order to retain trust and even relevance, or readers will go elsewhere.

“According to a spokesperson” just doesn’t really cut it when the primary evidence is right there.
Beyond OSINT, I think the overarching issue is:

There’s an implicit assumption in most of journalism that the only way to find out what’s happening is to ask someone.

For years now it’s been possible to do better than that, but the industry has not fully taken this on board.

One final thought:

Fact-checks after the fact are inherently limited. “A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on”.

Forensic, investigative, truth-seeking work should be a proactive part of breaking news coverage, not a reactive add-on afterwards

Smacks of bull that. Israel basically did it let’s create some doubt and Joe toes the line. Get tae with that nonsense

[Stairway 2 7]

Smacks of bull that. Israel basically did it let’s create some doubt and Joe toes the line. Get tae with that nonsense

I don't think there is doubt most now say its looking like a Hamas mistake. There's multiple videos geolocated showing a failed rocket including from Al jezera live. The crater is tiny. No buildings are really damaged apart from broken glass. No wreckage of the missle.

I wouldn't believe Israel for a second. But why would bellingcat spend 10 years highlighting hundreds of Isreali war crimes including this week, just to switch now.

Some people don't care what evidence comes out they just stick to what they want to have happened. Isreal literally switched off the water to Gaza this week brutal, why is the hill people are dying on information from terrorists

[MKHIBEE]

I don't think there is doubt most now say its looking like a Hamas mistake. There's multiple videos geolocated showing a failed rocket including from Al jezera live. The crater is tiny. No buildings are really damaged apart from broken glass. No wreckage of the missle.

I wouldn't believe Israel for a second. But why would bellingcat spend 10 years highlighting hundreds of Isreali war crimes including this week, just to switch now.

Some people don't care what evidence comes out they just stick to what they want to have happened. Isreal literally switched off the water to Gaza this week brutal, why is the hill people are dying on information from terrorists
The same reason people die on the information from the Israeli hill. It suits their agenda. Hamas are proscribed as terrorists, the Israeli army is called a “defence force”. That is the view most of the west would like to be accepted, others may see it differently.

[Stairway 2 7]

[/B]
The same reason people die on the information from the Israeli hill. It suits their agenda. Hamas are proscribed as terrorists, the Israeli army is called a “defence force”. That is the view most of the west would like to be accepted, others may see it differently.

People that believe either Hamas or Isreal are half daft imo. I can understand the people that are too far gone and are on either side of the argument and won't move, it's the people that are usually objective that won't budge no matter the evidence.

It's like Tommy Sheridan constantly bigged up bellingcat and shared all their info on US war crimes in Iraq and Isreali war crimes. Then when they started sharing all their info on Russian war crimes he says they are NATO mouthpieces, baffling.

Satellite imagery from before and after show minimal damage to the buildings, solar panels intact. Many news agencies said the hospital was destroyed it's clearly not true. I think too many want to be first with the news
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714828700477219017

In real news of Isreali evil. Idf spokesman dismissive of sky news filming protesters hit by Isreali snipers. Isreal commits war crimes every day
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1714744542824423636

[JimBHibees]

I don't think there is doubt most now say its looking like a Hamas mistake. There's multiple videos geolocated showing a failed rocket including from Al jezera live. The crater is tiny. No buildings are really damaged apart from broken glass. No wreckage of the missle.

I wouldn't believe Israel for a second. But why would bellingcat spend 10 years highlighting hundreds of Isreali war crimes including this week, just to switch now.

Some people don't care what evidence comes out they just stick to what they want to have happened. Isreal literally switched off the water to Gaza this week brutal, why is the hill people are dying on information from terrorists

You’re line that the Pentagon independently assessed. On no planet are they independent in relation to Israel

[Stairway 2 7]

You’re line that the Pentagon independently assessed. On no planet are they independent in relation to Israel

The pentagon say they independently assessed, I'm not the white House spokeswoman, it was her that said that. I wouldn’t trust Bidens team on its on personally

I shared about four different osint accounts that have been independently tracking Isreali war crimes for decades. There is literally satellite imagery of the scene from today showing minimal damage to the buildings, yet some are still sharing that Isreali destroyed a hospital.

What's obvious is a car park was hit and it wasn't by a large missle. If loads of independent information showed it was isreal I'd believe it

By the by Nathan Rutter of bellingcat whose thread I shared yesterday disproving the Isreali jdam story, obviously isn't happy with who pro Isreali brutality fans he's gained

Nathan Ruser
@Nrg8000
·
Hey uhh some new followers. If you followed me after seeing that thread and think I'm in any way supportive of a brutal siege, bombardment and war(/ crimes) you'll be disappointed, and if I see any genocidal and hateful crap in my replies and retweets I will absolutely boot you

[marinello59]

Clare Daly addressing the European Parliament, agree with her or not you have to admire her passion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EbUOptI128

[Ozyhibby]

Clare Daly addressing the European Parliament, agree with her or not you have to admire her passion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EbUOptI128

I can’t stand her.


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[marinello59]

I can’t stand her.


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You honestly did not have to tell me that. I would have assumed it. :greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

People that believe either Hamas or Isreal are half daft imo. I can understand the people that are too far gone and are on either side of the argument and won't move, it's the people that are usually objective that won't budge no matter the evidence.

It's like Tommy Sheridan constantly bigged up bellingcat and shared all their info on US war crimes in Iraq and Isreali war crimes. Then when they started sharing all their info on Russian war crimes he says they are NATO mouthpieces, baffling.

Satellite imagery from before and after show minimal damage to the buildings, solar panels intact. Many news agencies said the hospital was destroyed it's clearly not true. I think too many want to be first with the news
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714828700477219017

In real news of Isreali evil. Idf spokesman dismissive of sky news filming protesters hit by Isreali snipers. Isreal commits war crimes every day
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1714744542824423636

It’s a bit like the 40 beheaded babies lie. You could tell it was a lie as soon as it was uttered. I just couldn’t believe even Hamas would do that.

Was pretty sure Isreal didn’t bomb a hospital.

J

[MKHIBEE]

It’s a bit like the 40 beheaded babies lie. You could tell it was a lie as soon as it was uttered. I just couldn’t believe even Hamas would do that.

Was pretty sure Isreal didn’t bomb a hospital.

J
Didn’t Biden say he had seen the evidence of it?

[Green Reaper]

Didn’t Biden say he had seen the evidence of it?

He did but later that day the US State Department, or similar, said nothing was seen by them directly but they believed the people who had said they seen the evidence.

[Stairway 2 7]

Didn’t Biden say he had seen the evidence of it?

He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going

[greenginger]

He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth .

It’s in the DNA in that part of the world

[MKHIBEE]

He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going
It won’t, the same way that Hamas killing Israelis doesn’t ease Palestinians pain. However, it may well be the beginning of the end for Palestine unless somebody outwith the main protagonists comes up with a solution suitable to both sides. My view is it’s highly unlikely and the Israelis will do their best to eradicate all things Palestinian.

[Stairway 2 7]

It won’t, the same way that Hamas killing Israelis doesn’t ease Palestinians pain. However, it may well be the beginning of the end for Palestine unless somebody outwith the main protagonists comes up with a solution suitable to both sides. My view is it’s highly unlikely and the Israelis will do their best to eradicate all things Palestinian.

I think so too. They have been trying committing genocide for decades and now they feel they have justice on their side. Even if Hamas went something else would pop up so the mission is pointless in that sense. The west has turned a blind eye for too long to feign concern now

[MKHIBEE]

I think so too. They have been trying committing genocide for decades and now they feel they have justice on their side. Even if Hamas went something else would pop up so the mission is pointless in that sense. The west has turned a blind eye for too long to feign concern now
The west has been complicit in the erasing of the Palestinians from the consciousness of the general public. Try and find Palestine on a map, it’s the enclave in Israel which is named the West Bank. Most people leave out the Occupied part. Hamas = terrorist= Palestine. Very few seem to report on the 75 years of occupation, terrorism, murder that Israel has carried out, that’s Israel who are nothing more than a murderous apartheid state. As recognised by many independent bodies, even by some Israelis .

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty interesting the times of Isreal had a poll and 70% want retribution for the terrorist attacks, which is to be expected although not genocide like they are doing imo. The surprising thing for me was 80% think Netanyahu for letting it happen, he could be gone next 🤞

[MKHIBEE]

Pretty interesting the times of Isreal had a poll and 70% want retribution for the terrorist attacks, which is to be expected although not genocide like they are doing imo. The surprising thing for me was 80% think Netanyahu for letting it happen, he could be gone next 🤞

I would imagine many Palestinians would want retribution for the oppression they have suffered under the Israelis. And the cycle goes round again.

[Stairway 2 7]

Palestinian authority condem Hamas. At the same time Saudi Arabia say Hamas was funded by Iran and Qatar and there actions were wrong and done to undermine the Isreali Saudi normalisation deal. Saudi and Isreali normalisation talks set to continue, money talks

BethRigby
NEW: President of the Palestinian Auth Mahmoud Abbas & PM jointly condemn Hamas terrorism and stressed that Hamas do not represent the Palestinian people

[Ozyhibby]

Some good news as two hostages to be released.
If Hamas can start slowly releasing the hostages every few days it will stall any ground invasion. Cynical but will save a lot of lives as well.

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[Keith_M]

Some good news as two hostages to be released.
If Hamas can start slowly releasing the hostages every few days it will stall any ground invasion. Cynical but will save a lot of lives as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wish they would let the rest of the poor sods go, but sadly that's not going to happen.

[Jones28]

Some good news as two hostages to be released.
If Hamas can start slowly releasing the hostages every few days it will stall any ground invasion. Cynical but will save a lot of lives as well.

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2 Americans…the day after Bidens visit…money might have done some talking here.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?t=_eq2KRLjVjUgFzWvKx6DKw&s=19

Interesting new analysis of the hospital explosion.

[lapsedhibee]

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?t=_eq2KRLjVjUgFzWvKx6DKw&s=19

Interesting new analysis of the hospital explosion.

This was on Ch4 News this evening. Very interesting. :agree:

[cabbageandribs1875]

what a very powerful speech from Matt Carthy of Sinn Fein https://www.facebook.com/MattCarthySF/videos/1754981481613641/?extid=CL-UNK-UNK-UNK-AN_GK0T-GK1C

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?t=_eq2KRLjVjUgFzWvKx6DKw&s=19

Interesting new analysis of the hospital explosion.

They aren't impartial unfortunately they are part of al has based in Palestine it's pretty obvious from the report saying the Isreali occupying forces and concluding " we... reaffirm our solidarity with Palestinian people under attack, including our friends & colleagues"

Doesn't mean they aren't fair and I do like a lot of their work in finding Isreali crimes. But from what I'm reading on bellingcats reddit forum they have just dismissed looking at a falling rocket( that was filmed falling above at the same time) and looked for another a possibility. They say both artillery shell in their report, which doesn't explain the massive fireball. The picture they used of a 155 crater in Kharkiv to do there comparison if a mortar shell apparently. If it was a single 155 shell like they suggest only dozens would be dead, which could be I suppose

The main finding is it came from the east not west where the failed rocket took off, but I've seen this article shared in response that videos show the failed rocket did a u turn.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/18/gaza-rocket-hospital-blast-vpx.cnn

It could be Isreali hit with something small just as the rocket was falling. I'm not sure why Isreali would shoot one random artillery shell for though

France military intelligence has just come out and said the opposite to forensic architecture and that it was from 5kg of explosive, rules out Isreali artillery which is more than 10kg. They say most likely the failed rocket

https://www.barrons.com/news/french-military-intel-says-no-indication-gaza-hospital-blast-was-israeli-strike-946e673e


In undeniable facts isreal missed there target today, a military office. They narrowly missed an 800 year old church but destroyed a church outbuilding and killed 20 people hiding inside including 8 children
https://twitter.com/ChiefTrumpster/status/1715460482252095690

[Stairway 2 7]

European military show more analysis on why they think it was the rocket misfire
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231020-gaza-hospital-blast-was-caused-by-misfired-rocket-says-european-military-source

AFP this morning going with misfired rocket from data analysis
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3?taid=653359761b64 0e00010945be&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

Osints and military in the comments pointing out what I said, the image forensic architecture used to compare the crater wasn't from a 155 shell it was a Russian small rocket.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1715562790805479663


Dozens saying rocket only al jazera and forensic architecture saying not rocket. The debate could have been ended hours after the hit though. Hamas by witness accounts took away the wreckage in the hours after. They just show what it is and that's it over, most of it will be there.

In an hour after the Ukrainian strike on the airfield that destroyed 20 helicopters this week, Russian showed the wreckage to prove America had infact sent ATACMS. Ukraine has done the same dozens of times they've shown destroyed Iranian drones and north Korean 155 shells.

Hamas can end the debate and just show the remains

[MKHIBEE]

what a very powerful speech from Matt Carthy of Sinn Fein https://www.facebook.com/MattCarthySF/videos/1754981481613641/?extid=CL-UNK-UNK-UNK-AN_GK0T-GK1C

If you were to listen to the commentators on the western media you could be forgiven for thinking that the Israeli- Palestinian conflict only began when Hamas attacked Israel on the 7th of October.
Fair play to Matt Carthy for his speech

[DaveF]

Meanwhile, Israel does what Israel does in the West Bank and everyone looks the other way.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67173344

[Keith_M]

‘The most successful land-grab strategy since 1967’ as settlers push Bedouins off West Bank territory

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory


(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory)"The tiny settlement overlooking the Bedouin village of Ein Rashash is named “Angels of Peace”, but, says Sliman al-Zawahri, its residents have visited only violence, fear and despair on his family.

This week the Bedouin community packed up most of their belongings and drove all the women, children and elderly people from the West Bank ridge they had called home for nearly four decades, perched above a spring and beside an archaeological site.

“They didn’t leave us air to breathe,” said Zawahri, 52, describing a months-long campaign of violence and intimidation that intensified in the last two weeks. First villagers were barred from grazing lands, and the spring, then violence reached their homes.

“They came into the village and destroyed houses and sheep pens, beat an 85-year-old man, scared our children. Slowly our lives became unlivable.”
...
This was not an individual tragedy. Men from Angels of Peace are part of a broad, violent and very successful political project to expand Israeli control of the West Bank that has accelerated, say activists, since the 7 October attacks by Hamas launched a war with Israel."
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory)

[Stairway 2 7]

20 aid trucks get through the Egyptian border. Not sure why it's getting so much press surely it's a plaster on a gunshot wound

[Keith_M]

20 aid trucks get through the Egyptian border. Not sure why it's getting so much press surely it's a plaster on a gunshot wound


The politicians held a press conference in front of the border gate.

I think it's just one of those pointless 'look at me' moments.

[Hibs4185]

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?t=_eq2KRLjVjUgFzWvKx6DKw&s=19

Interesting new analysis of the hospital explosion.

Just read this and in no way is this interesting. I’ve never heard of them but from the first few words you know which side they are supporting.

[Ozyhibby]

I’ve no interest in who hit the hospital as it was an accident either way. Best to focus on how to stop people firing missiles altogether.


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[Hibs4185]

I’ve no interest in who hit the hospital as it was an accident either way. Best to focus on how to stop people firing missiles altogether.


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Funnily enough I was never bothered about Putin’s threats of WWW3 and all the escalation stuff but this crisis does.

Putin is stoking it all with Iran. Helps Russia and Putin in Ukraine and gives all the ‘hate the west’ extremists a chance to rise up.

Sooner there is a ceasefire the better for everyone

[Ozyhibby]

Funnily enough I was never bothered about Putin’s threats of WWW3 and all the escalation stuff but this crisis does.

Putin is stoking it all with Iran. Helps Russia and Putin in Ukraine and gives all the ‘hate the west’ extremists a chance to rise up.

Sooner there is a ceasefire the better for everyone

I don’t think a third country will get involved here. Nobody has the military capable.


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[Hibs4185]

I don’t think a third country will get involved here. Nobody has the military capable.


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I can see hezbollah getting involved from the north and Putin pushing Iran to arm its supporters like the Houthi rebels etc.

The biggest escalation would be a direct confrontation between Iran and Israel.

[Ozyhibby]

I can see hezbollah getting involved from the north and Putin pushing Iran to arm its supporters like the Houthi rebels etc.

The biggest escalation would be a direct confrontation between Iran and Israel.

I don’t think they will. They might exchange a bit of fire over the border but nothing that can’t easily be dealt with.
And I think the last thing Iran wants is to take on Isreal. The domestic situation there is delicate as it is. And they are too far away to do anything meaningful.


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[MKHIBEE]

Just read this and in no way is this interesting. I’ve never heard of them but from the first few words you know which side they are supporting.
so you are only interested if they support the “ right” side?

[Just Alf]

so you are only interested if they support the “ right” side?I read it as preferring independent sources.

[marinello59]

I read it as preferring independent sources.

Me too.

[neil7908]

I don’t think they will. They might exchange a bit of fire over the border but nothing that can’t easily be dealt with.
And I think the last thing Iran wants is to take on Isreal. The domestic situation there is delicate as it is. And they are too far away to do anything meaningful.


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Yup. If anyone wanted to join the fighting in a serious capacity they have had ample chances to do so.

Countries in the middle East are talk a great game when it comes to Palestine but have done next to nothing in practice to change the status quo.

[Hibs4185]

I read it as preferring independent sources.

Thanks, that’s what I meant.

[Stairway 2 7]

A section of Gaza flattened yesterday if you think this is fair retribution for Hamas horrors then your an idiot, so many innocents gone

https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/1715834574528250090

[MKHIBEE]

A section of Gaza flattened yesterday if you think this is fair retribution for Hamas horrors then your an idiot, so many innocents gone

https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/1715834574528250090

Unfortunately the actions of Hamas gave Israel the excuse it was looking for to eradicate the Palestinian presence in the Gaza Strip. That is their goal, and no one seems prepared to do anything about it. The world should be ashamed of itself.

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty sad that antisemits can't separate Jews from the evil Isreali government.

After a synagogue in Berlin was firebombed the holocaust memorial in Berlin is getting barriers put up to protect it from today's protest
https://twitter.com/MKuefner/status/1714970496171737333

Jewish synagogue leader murdered in Detroit, a historic synagogue in Tunisia was burnt to the ground, "killing Jews is a duty” spray painted outside a Jewish center in Carssonne in France, synagogue in Vienna was vandalised

In Barcelona a Jewish owned hotel was targeted at the Palestinian march. They ripped down the flag polls with different flags and put up Palestinian flags banners and blocked the entrance
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1715994170265907521

80 years after Jews were told to display stars on their clothes German integration commissioner Güner Balci recommend jews not displaying their faith for their protection.

How did we get back here
https://archive.ph/LtRbC
The Times
The Star of David has been spray-painted on several buildings housing Jewish people in Berlin amid a wave of antisemitic and anti-Israel incidents across Germany.

[Ozyhibby]

Pretty sad that antisemits can't separate Jews from the evil Isreali government.

After a synagogue in Berlin was firebombed the holocaust memorial in Berlin is getting barriers put up to protect it from today's protest
https://twitter.com/MKuefner/status/1714970496171737333

Jewish synagogue leader murdered in Detroit, a historic synagogue in Tunisia was burnt to the ground, "killing Jews is a duty” spray painted outside a Jewish center in Carssonne in France, synagogue in Vienna was vandalised

In Barcelona a Jewish owned hotel was targeted at the Palestinian march. They ripped down the flag polls with different flags and put up Palestinian flags banners and blocked the entrance
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1715994170265907521

80 years after Jews were told to display stars on their clothes German integration commissioner Güner Balci recommend jews not displaying their faith for their protection.

How did we get back here
https://archive.ph/LtRbC
The Times
The Star of David has been spray-painted on several buildings housing Jewish people in Berlin amid a wave of antisemitic and anti-Israel incidents across Germany.

I’ve never understood that part of peoples brains. They complain about collective punishment of Palestinians (correctly) then practise the same thing on Jewish people.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I’ve never understood that part of peoples brains. They complain about collective punishment of Palestinians (correctly) then practise the same thing on Jewish people.


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I think the one thing that binds us (from tribes in the amazon killing each other to here in the UK adults who were spitting and shouting at catholic kids going to school) is being horrible to people who are just like ourselves.

[Hibs4185]

so you are only interested if they support the “ right” side?

Balanced opinions with evidence from OSINT

https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1716113399728218618

[Stairway 2 7]

Who knew that terrorists are liars. Hamas says the Isreali rocket that hit the hospital car park devolved like salt in water. Munitions experts are today saying that is nonsense and the wreckage was removed. CNN and wall street journal come out and say their analysts confirm a misfired Hamas rocket.

This is on the media, BBC should be infront of OFCOM and leaders that reported it without proof should apologise.

It's a not needed deflection opportunity for Isreal. The focus should be on the hundreds of Isreali bombs that are causing the deaths of thousands in Gaza



Ny times
https://archive.ph/FUUtq

“The missile has dissolved like salt in the water,” said Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas official, in a phone interview. “It’s vaporized. Nothing is left.”
Salama Maroof, the head of the Hamas-run government media office, said in a text message: “Who says we’re obligated to present the remnants of every rocket that kills our people? In general, you can come and research and confirm for yourself from the evidence we possess.”

[superfurryhibby]

Twitter-what a scary place.

There seems to be a trend in the USA around putting up notices in public places, then seemingly waiting for people to remove them, film them doing so, post said film on twatter then accuse them of being Nazis and the like. Then they are being named, place of work identified and contacted, jobs being lost etc.

What do notices about kidnapped Israelis in urban United States achieve to begin with?

The cynic in me says it's almost like this is entrapment, being done to fuel the propaganda war that sits alongside the actual conflict.

I guess we should all be careful what we post on social media, thinking about the absolute flood of pro-Israel pish that is filtering into my FB account and the like

[Ozyhibby]

Twitter-what a scary place.

There seems to be a trend in the USA around putting up notices in public places, then seemingly waiting for people to remove them, film them doing so, post said film on twatter then accuse them of being Nazis and the like. Then they are being named, place of work identified and contacted, jobs being lost etc.

What do notices about kidnapped Israelis in urban United States achieve to begin with?

The cynic in me says it's almost like this is entrapment, being done to fuel the propaganda war that sits alongside the actual conflict.

I guess we should all be careful what we post on social media, thinking about the absolute flood of pro-Israel pish that is filtering into my FB account and the like

There is no doubt Isreal control the online space although when you actually speak to real people the sympathy mostly lies with the Palestinians, or is at least split.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231023/cc2751bd9f2b67670a0143edfd19e744.jpg


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[Stairway 2 7]

There is no doubt Isreal control the online space although when you actually speak to real people the sympathy mostly lies with the Palestinians, or is at least split.


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Probably split

Which side in the Israeli‑Palestinian conflict do you sympathize with more?
Conducted 16 October 2023

YouGov surveyed 2574 GB adults
The Israeli side
21%
The Palestinian side
17%
Both sides equally
29%
Don't know
33%


I just don't know what Hamas were thinking. It's been a one way slaughter for decades. The murder 1400 Isrealis and a hundred hostages and a lot of people will feel whilst not agreeing with the carpet bombing, that Isreal has the right to wipe out Hamas.

It's the civilians of Gaza that will pay the price. Maybe Iran or Qatari influence, safe in there own borders.

Ridiculous that Isreal can try and take the moral high ground now

[Ozyhibby]

Probably split

Which side in the Israeli‑Palestinian conflict do you sympathize with more?
Conducted 16 October 2023

YouGov surveyed 2574 GB adults
The Israeli side
21%
The Palestinian side
17%
Both sides equally
29%
Don't know
33%


I just don't know what Hamas were thinking. It's been a one way slaughter for decades. The murder 1400 Isrealis and a hundred hostages and a lot of people will feel whilst not agreeing with the carpet bombing, that Isreal has the right to wipe out Hamas.

It's the civilians of Gaza that will pay the price. Maybe Iran or Qatari influence, safe in there own borders.

Ridiculous that Isreal can try and take the moral high ground now

From Hamas point of view they are probably thinking that they are slowly dying in Gaza anyway? They have no future under the present arrangements anyway?
At least now the world is now paying attention to them. And it’s not like going down the route of co-operation like the PA in the West Bank has shown to be the better option?
From Hamas point of view, this may turn out to be a successful operation.


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[MKHIBEE]

Probably split

Which side in the Israeli‑Palestinian conflict do you sympathize with more?
Conducted 16 October 2023

YouGov surveyed 2574 GB adults
The Israeli side
21%
The Palestinian side
17%
Both sides equally
29%
Don't know
33%


I just don't know what Hamas were thinking. It's been a one way slaughter for decades. The murder 1400 Isrealis and a hundred hostages and a lot of people will feel whilst not agreeing with the carpet bombing, that Isreal has the right to wipe out Hamas.

It's the civilians of Gaza that will pay the price. Maybe Iran or Qatari influence, safe in there own borders.

Ridiculous that Isreal can try and take the moral high ground now
It’s easy to do when the whole of the western world is on your side and Palestinians are “terrorists”.

[Stairway 2 7]

It’s easy to do when the whole of the western world is on your side and Palestinians are “terrorists”.

What is the whole of the western world, people or govs. Hundreds of thousands in every major city in Europe came out to say they were in support of Palestinians this weekend. I think the vast majority don't think Palestinians are terrorists although most rightly will think Hamas are now. Oz is probably right in that more will now now what Isreal are, but the cost will be insane

As for governments they only act at the very last minute and if they have to, see Rwanda, Bosnia, Crimea. I'm sure if Putin took Kyiv in a week and put in a puppet the west will have dealt with them. It's pathetic but true, they have turned a blind eye on Palestinian genocide for decades

[Ozyhibby]

What is the whole of the western world, people or govs. Hundreds of thousands in every major city in Europe came out to say they were in support of Palestinians this weekend. I think the vast majority don't think Palestinians are terrorists although most rightly will think Hamas are now. Oz is probably right in that more will now now what Isreal are, but the cost will be insane

As for governments they only act at the very last minute and if they have to, see Rwanda, Bosnia, Crimea. I'm sure if Putin took Kyiv in a week and put in a puppet the west will have dealt with them. It's pathetic but true, they have turned a blind eye on Palestinian genocide for decades

Isreal still seems to believe in a military solution to this and the only military solution that can work is genocide. Every thing short of that leaves them in the same situation.
Of course if they were to look for a diplomatic solution then lots of other possibilities open up. I don’t think that’s on the table now. Not when you have politicians round the world ready to get behind your genocide.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Isreal still seems to believe in a military solution to this and the only military solution that can work is genocide. Every thing short of that leaves them in the same situation.
Of course if they were to look for a diplomatic solution then lots of other possibilities open up. I don’t think that’s on the table now. Not when you have politicians round the world ready to get behind your genocide.


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Their population isn't accepting them not crushing Hamas fully now surely though, if they did without retribution as they see it, they would be worried it happens again.

The hostages being released would defuse the situation more than any other but I can't see it happening. I don't think Netanyahu is bothered about the hostages he wants a ground offensive that surely puts the hostages at most risk. I think it's inevitable and it'll be brutal on both sides.

[Ozyhibby]

Their population isn't accepting them not crushing Hamas fully now surely though, if they did without retribution as they see it, they would be worried it happens again.

The hostages being released would defuse the situation more than any other but I can't see it happening. I don't think Netanyahu is bothered about the hostages he wants a ground offensive that surely puts the hostages at most risk. I think it's inevitable and it'll be brutal on both sides.

I pretty much agree with all that and when it’s done Hamas will still be there.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I pretty much agree with all that and when it’s done Hamas will still be there.


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Definitely unfortunately. Hopefully Netanyahu gets chucked and someone with more respect on life can come after