Hamas attack on Israel

[tamig]

Really strange thread title for a discussion regarding the ultra aggressive, genocidal, permanently problematic state of Israel.

Shameful that our tax revenues go into supporting they bampots.

You can maybe gather that the thread was created after the initial attacks that triggered the appalling backlash from Netanyahu and co. These threads evolve with time. Bit like the ongoing Trump thread which is an even odder title now.

[Haymaker]

Sorry to bring it around to Ukraine but I feel Russia is behind a lot of this and a strike on Iran, hinders Russia whilst also putting them in a tough position.

In all conflicts I think it’s important to look at who the winners are and I have no doubt that Hamas attacking Israel and the folwoiinh war, helps take the heat of Putin and Russia.


Russia is/has been desperate for the US to get involved in a a ME conflict since it invaded Ukraine. They know that defending Israel/invading Iran would mean they couldnt support Ukraine militarily or financially.

[The Tubs]

Russia is/has been desperate for the US to get involved in a a ME conflict since it invaded Ukraine. They know that defending Israel/invading Iran would mean they couldnt support Ukraine militarily or financially.

The yanks won't even sell Ukraine patriots nowadays.

[Ozyhibby]

The yanks won't even sell Ukraine patriots nowadays.

The US approved the transfer of $30m of weapons today.


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[Ozyhibby]

Russia is/has been desperate for the US to get involved in a a ME conflict since it invaded Ukraine. They know that defending Israel/invading Iran would mean they couldnt support Ukraine militarily or financially.

The US could afford to do both. Whether they would is another matter.


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[Haymaker]

The yanks won't even sell Ukraine patriots nowadays.

Since the change of government. And a fair amount of congress still support spending in the Ukraine. A war in the Middle East that America is all in (which is any war involving Israel) suit Putin.

What I don't think Putin and his friends worldwide thought through was the European (and others) reaction to US disinterest.

[Haymaker]

The US could afford to do both. Whether they would is another matter.


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They certainly could, especially with the love of "lend/lease" etc.

[The Tubs]

The US approved the transfer of $30m of weapons today.


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1/4 of Wirtz. Still surprising though.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250613/fb1bb754c4ea2fc5597db3dda8c3f5ce.png


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[JimBHibees]

Israel have never been held to account for its genocide while most countries turned a blind eye including the UK.

Israel government can now do what it wants. I assume they and anybody else won’t have any issue with Iran fighting back as they will have “the right to defend itself”….

Yep clear that having the gimp in the White House has emboldened Israel even more if that was possible

[He's here!]

Yep clear that having the gimp in the White House has emboldened Israel even more if that was possible

As someone else has pointed out, Israel is doing the West a favour here. A day of reckonining for the Iranian regime, loathed by most of its people, has been a long time coming. It's at the heart of extremism and terrorism, funding its proxies and making peace in the Middle East impossible.

[Bishop Hibee]

The belief some seem to have that the Iranian people are going to rise up and create a democratic society supporting the USA and Israel is bizarre. More likely to unite the country against those attacking it.

[JimBHibees]

As someone else has pointed out, Israel is doing the West a favour here. A day of reckonining for the Iranian regime, loathed by most of its people, has been a long time coming. It's at the heart of extremism and terrorism, funding its proxies and making peace in the Middle East impossible.

Thought the west would have recognised bombing the crap out of countries doesn’t usually lead to moving them in directions they want. Are they any more abhorrent than whoever bombed them? The last thing the world needs at present is more violence

[18Craig75]

The belief some seem to have that the Iranian people are going to rise up and create a democratic society supporting the USA and Israel is bizarre. More likely to unite the country against those attacking it.

100% agree. This attack pushes Iran closer to becoming nuclear armed. Really strange timing considering that talks were ongoing with the US. Perhaps Netanyahu felt if those talks came to a positive conclusion then he wouldn’t get another opportunity.

[JimBHibees]

100% agree. This attack pushes Iran closer to becoming nuclear armed. Really strange timing considering that talks were ongoing with the US. Perhaps Netanyahu felt if those talks came to a positive conclusion then he wouldn’t get another opportunity.

My view would be been given the green light by Donald and won’t have a better chance and their reputation can’t really get any worse

[Pretty Boy]

I think most people would accept regime change in Iran could be a positive for it's population. There are so many caveats there that it would take a day to list them but broad speaking I don't think many are in thrall to the nutjob Islamists running the show.

A bunch of nutjob Zionists unilaterally doing the regime changing isn't the answer many would put forward though. There is plenty internal agitation in Iran against the leadership already; those agitators aren't going to accept some Israeli and US backed puppet government. There are people old enough to remember how much of a disaster that was last time out.

[SickBoy32]

The belief some seem to have that the Iranian people are going to rise up and create a democratic society supporting the USA and Israel is bizarre. More likely to unite the country against those attacking it.

Spot on.

Israel is a menace to the region, and indeed the wider world.

They need dealt with, pronto.

Perhaps the West should think about instigating a coup / regime change in Jerusalem. Appreciate this is unlikely, given their Western support and thus the condoning of the Israeli atrocities.

[Ozyhibby]

I think most people would accept regime change in Iran could be a positive for it's population. There are so many caveats there that it would take a day to list them but broad speaking I don't think many are in thrall to the nutjob Islamists running the show.

A bunch of nutjob Zionists unilaterally doing the regime changing isn't the answer many would put forward though. There is plenty internal agitation in Iran against the leadership already; those agitators aren't going to accept some Israeli and US backed puppet government. There are people old enough to remember how much of a disaster that was last time out.

I doubt either regime could be changed just by firing some rockets in. Only ground forces are capable of that and there is zero chance of that. If there is regime change then it will have to be internal. And there is a very good chance of that in Iran.


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[makaveli1875]

Spot on.

Israel is a menace to the region, and indeed the wider world.

They need dealt with, pronto.

Perhaps the West should think about instigating a coup / regime change in Jerusalem. Appreciate this is unlikely, given their Western support and thus the condoning of the Israeli atrocities.

It's not quite as simple as that is it . Israel has been under attack for the entirety of its existence. They had to learn to fight or there wouldn't be an Israel today .

[Hibspur]

Thought the west would have recognised bombing the crap out of countries doesn’t usually lead to moving them in directions they want. Are they any more abhorrent than whoever bombed them? The last thing the world needs at present is more violence

Iran is a fundamentalist dictatorship. Whatever you feel about their current government, Israel is a parliamentary democracy (the only one in the Middle East) and an indispensable strategic ally to the West.

[Hibspur]

The only interest the Israel government have is total self interest and to ensure they stay in power and avoid being arrested due to the actions taken in Gaza. In any other country if the respective government was taking action like the genocide in Gaza the people would be on the streets demonstrating that it was not in the name of the people. Except we don’t see any of that. Israel would literally burn down the rest of the world if it felt it helped them.

There is substantial opposition to Netanyahu in Israel, where there have been plenty demonstrations by those who don't feel that prolonging the conflict remains the most effective way of securing the release of however many hostages remain. What gets less coverage are the demonstrations in Gaza against the Hamas regime responsible for the conflict in the first place.

[Ozyhibby]

Iran is a fundamentalist dictatorship. Whatever you feel about their current government, Israel is a parliamentary democracy (the only one in the Middle East) and an indispensable strategic ally to the West.

Do they let the Palestinians they rule over vote?


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[Hibspur]

Really strange thread title for a discussion regarding the ultra aggressive, genocidal, permanently problematic state of Israel.

Shameful that our tax revenues go into supporting they bampots.

Or perhaps a useful reminder of the fact that this supposed genocide was triggered by a mass terrorist attack involving the slaughter of civilians and the taking of hostages? Terrorists who embed themselves within and below civilian infrastructure, content to increase civilian casualties for propaganda purposes. Hamas knew fine well the consequences of their actions and appear to care not a jot for the people they're purported to 'govern'.

[SickBoy32]

It's not quite as simple as that is it . Israel has been under attack for the entirety of its existence. They had to learn to fight or there wouldn't be an Israel today .

Little wonder they were under attack following the Nakba (round1). Round 2 underway currently.

A lot of good and progressive work had gone into a ‘2 state solution’ in recent decades, however that has all been undone (and more) by the genocidal maniacs in charge of Israel.

Not to mention their ongoing illegal land grabs in contravention of international law.

They need sorted out and brought down a peg or two.

Unfortunately, the UK / US seem to prefer to support this ongoing chaos.

[SickBoy32]

Or perhaps a useful reminder of the fact that this supposed genocide was triggered by a mass terrorist attack involving the slaughter of civilians and the taking of hostages? Terrorists who embed themselves within and below civilian infrastructure, content to increase civilian casualties for propaganda purposes. Hamas knew fine well the consequences of their actions and appear to care not a jot for the people they're purported to 'govern'.

Supposed genocide 😂

[Moulin Yarns]

Or perhaps a useful reminder of the fact that this supposed genocide was triggered by a mass terrorist attack involving the slaughter of civilians and the taking of hostages? Terrorists who embed themselves within and below civilian infrastructure, content to increase civilian casualties for propaganda purposes. Hamas knew fine well the consequences of their actions and appear to care not a jot for the people they're purported to 'govern'.

Just a wee bit of revisionism there

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44124396

The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people is one of the longest-running and most violent disputes in the world. Its origins go back more than a century.

Tensions between the Jewish and Arab populations deepened when the UK agreed in principle to the establishment of a "national home" in Palestine for Jewish people

Jews had historical links to the land, but Palestinian Arabs also had a claim dating back centuries and opposed the move. The British said the rights of Palestinian Arabs already living there had to be protected.

Jewish leaders in Palestine declared an independent state known as Israel hours before British rule ended. Israel was recognised by the UN the following year.

About 750,000 Palestinians fled, or were forced from, their homes on land which became Israel and ended up as refugees.




I could continue, but doubt you will agree that it started with the formation of an Israeli state on land that was always Palestinian.


Edit. I was going to mention the landgrab and murder in the west bank but I was beaten to it.

[He's here!]

Little wonder they were under attack following the Nakba (round1). Round 2 underway currently.

A lot of good and progressive work had gone into a ‘2 state solution’ in recent decades, however that has all been undone (and more) by the genocidal maniacs in charge of Israel.

Not to mention their ongoing illegal land grabs in contravention of international law.

They need sorted out and brought down a peg or two.

Unfortunately, the UK / US seem to prefer to support this ongoing chaos.

Neither side will now countenance a two-state solution but it's the Palestinians who have previously walked away from the best chances for peace. Arafat's spurning of the Camp David deal is widely seen as a mistake but it was Abbas who really blew it in 2008 when he rejected Olmert's offer which gave the Palestinians everything they could realistically have hoped for.

To coin a phrase, the Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And under Hamas an opportunity is no longer even sought.

[Hibrandenburg]

Neither side will now countenance a two-state solution but it's the Palestinians who have previously walked away from the best chances for peace. Arafat's spurning of the Camp David deal is widely seen as a mistake but it was Abbas who really blew it in 2008 when he rejected Olmert's offer which gave the Palestinians everything they could realistically have hoped for.

To coin a phrase, the Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And under Hamas an opportunity is no longer even sought.

Not sure the 2 state idea would work anyway. The 2 states would be at war within a couple of years of establishment anyway, the hate is so ingrained.

[He's here!]

Supposed genocide 😂

I'd argue it's open to question. Questionable whether what's happening in Gaza stacks up alongside (relatively recent) historical genocides in, say, Rwanda, Darfur, Bosnia or the ongoing genocide in Myanwar and how much it feeds into anti-Israel/Zionism sentiment - something that bleeds into broader prejudices against Jews. As pointed out, to use that term to describe the latest war in Gaza serves to deligitimise the actions of one side while legitimising the actions of the terrorist organisation which started the conflict - an organisation which willingly uses civilians as dispensable shields and would happily wipe the Jewish state off the map.

If genocide starts to become a routine descriptor for controversial aspects of conflict where do we stand on Allied bombing of German cities or the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

[Kato]

serves to deligitimise the actions of one side while legitimising the actions of the terrorist organisation

How does it do that?



which started the conflict

Sure it did...



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[Hibs4185]

Just a wee bit of revisionism there

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44124396

The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people is one of the longest-running and most violent disputes in the world. Its origins go back more than a century.

Tensions between the Jewish and Arab populations deepened when the UK agreed in principle to the establishment of a "national home" in Palestine for Jewish people

Jews had historical links to the land, but Palestinian Arabs also had a claim dating back centuries and opposed the move. The British said the rights of Palestinian Arabs already living there had to be protected.

Jewish leaders in Palestine declared an independent state known as Israel hours before British rule ended. Israel was recognised by the UN the following year.

About 750,000 Palestinians fled, or were forced from, their homes on land which became Israel and ended up as refugees.




I could continue, but doubt you will agree that it started with the formation of an Israeli state on land that was always Palestinian.


Edit. I was going to mention the landgrab and murder in the west bank but I was beaten to it.


Genuine question, after world war 2 where were the Jews suppose to go? Was it not the case that they had some historical links also and after the nazi’s the world agreed that they should settle their?

I don’t know the history that well which is why I refrain from commenting on the conflict

[DinkyTwo]

Just a wee bit of revisionism there

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44124396

The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people is one of the longest-running and most violent disputes in the world. Its origins go back more than a century.

Tensions between the Jewish and Arab populations deepened when the UK agreed in principle to the establishment of a "national home" in Palestine for Jewish people

Jews had historical links to the land, but Palestinian Arabs also had a claim dating back centuries and opposed the move. The British said the rights of Palestinian Arabs already living there had to be protected.

Jewish leaders in Palestine declared an independent state known as Israel hours before British rule ended. Israel was recognised by the UN the following year.

About 750,000 Palestinians fled, or were forced from, their homes on land which became Israel and ended up as refugees.




I could continue, but doubt you will agree that it started with the formation of an Israeli state on land that was always Palestinian.


Edit. I was going to mention the landgrab and murder in the west bank but I was beaten to it.

Yep, exactly.

We felt bad for the Jews after the holocaust, carved out some land for them in the Middle East since they have a tenuous link to the region but it came at a cost of moving on the people who were currently living there.

Since then, the state has land grabbed, intimidated, controlled and ultimately purged the local population from their land, flattened every building, setup 'safe zones', starved anyone left of basic resources, freedom of movement and killed thousands upon thousands of civilians.

The retaliation to that from Hamas was awful, but this sort of thing is like how to create a terrorist group 101. Step 1, persecute innocent people, step 2 the mourned become fuel for revenge...

It's also hugely ironic that there are calls to remove a religious group from a position of power in Iran when Israel is literally a country for a religion. Huge amounts of hypocrisy.

Ideally, neither Islam nor Judaism (nor any religion or religious group) should have as much power. Having them vie for power in the same part of the world is recipe for a right ****-show, as we're seeing.

The decision to create the state of Israel isn't something that we can ever take back, but they need to settle down and learn to co-exist with their neighbours. Right now, they're behaving a bit like a certain European state that claimed to be the holy successors of a past empire.

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[Hibs4185]

Yep, exactly.

We felt bad for the Jews after the holocaust, carved out some land for them in the Middle East since they have a tenuous link to the region but it came at a cost of moving on the people who were currently living there.

Since then, the state has land grabbed, intimidated, controlled and ultimately purged the local population from their land, flattened every building, setup 'safe zones', starved anyone left of basic resources, freedom of movement and killed thousands upon thousands of civilians.

The retaliation to that from Hamas was awful, but this sort of thing is like how to create a terrorist group 101. Step 1, persecute innocent people, step 2 the mourned become fuel for revenge...

It's also hugely ironic that there are calls to remove a religious group from a position of power in Iran when Israel is literally a country for a religion. Huge amounts of hypocrisy.

Ideally, neither Islam nor Judaism (nor any religion or religious group) should have as much power. Having them vie for power in the same part of the world is recipe for a right ****-show, as we're seeing.

The decision to create the state of Israel isn't something that we can ever take back, but they need to settle down and learn to co-exist with their neighbours. Right now, they're behaving a bit like a certain European state that claimed to be the holy successors of a past empire.

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Who’s the European state?

[Moulin Yarns]

I'd argue it's open to question. Questionable whether what's happening in Gaza stacks up alongside (relatively recent) historical genocides in, say, Rwanda, Darfur, Bosnia or the ongoing genocide in Myanwar and how much it feeds into anti-Israel/Zionism sentiment - something that bleeds into broader prejudices against Jews. As pointed out, to use that term to describe the latest war in Gaza serves to deligitimise the actions of one side while legitimising the actions of the terrorist organisation which started the conflict - an organisation which willingly uses civilians as dispensable shields and would happily wipe the Jewish state off the map.

If genocide starts to become a routine descriptor for controversial aspects of conflict where do we stand on Allied bombing of German cities or the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

The actions that started the conflict, if you look back in history, was the enforcement of an Israeli state on most of what was Palestine.

[Col2]

Never thought I would agree 100% with Tucker Carlson

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1930430114602402183?s=48&t=EnOf0LSOB9IiX9O1uErJgw

Mark Levin was at the White House today, lobbying for war with Iran. To be clear, Levin has no plans to fight in this or any other war. He’s demanding that American troops do it. We need to stop Iran from building nuclear weapons, he and likeminded ideologues in Washington are now arguing. They’re just weeks away.

If this sounds familiar, it's because the same people have been making the same claim since at least the 1990s. It’s a lie. In fact, there is zero credible intelligence that suggests Iran is anywhere near building a bomb, or has plans to. None. Anyone who claims otherwise is ignorant or dishonest. If the US government knew Iran was weeks from possessing a nuclear weapon, we’d be at war already.

Iran knows this, which is why they aren’t building one. Iran also knows it’s unwise to give up its weapons program entirely. Muammar Gaddafi tried that and wound up sodomized with a bayonet. As soon as Gaddafi disarmed, NATO killed him. Iran’s leaders saw that happen. They learned the obvious lesson.

So why is Mark Levin once again hyperventilating about weapons of mass destruction? To distract you from the real goal, which is regime change — young Americans heading back to the Middle East to topple yet another government. Virtually no one will say this out loud. America’s record of overthrowing foreign leaders is so embarrassingly counterproductive that regime change has become a synonym for disaster. Officially, no one supports it. So instead of telling the truth about their motives, they manufacture hysteria: “A country like Iran can never have the bomb! They’ll nuke Los Angeles! We have to act now!”

They don’t really mean this, and you can tell they don’t by what they omit. At least two of Iran’s neighbors — both Islamic nations — already have nuclear weapons. That fact should scare the hell out of Mark Levin. Yet for some reason he never mentions it. How come? Because it’s not the weapons he hates. It’s the ideology of the Iranian government, which is why he’s lobbying to overthrow it.

It goes without saying that there are very few Trump voters who’d support a regime change war in Iran. Donald Trump has argued loudly against reckless lunacy like this. Trump ran for president as a peace candidate. That’s what made him different from conventional Republicans. It’s why he won. A war with Iran would amount to a profound betrayal of his supporters. It would end his presidency. That may explain why so many of Trump’s enemies are advocating for it.

And then there’s the question of the war itself. Iran may not have nukes, but it has a fearsome arsenal of ballistic missiles, many of which are aimed at US military installations in the Gulf, as well as at our allies and at critical energy infrastructure. The first week of a war with Iran could easily kill thousands of Americans. It could also collapse our economy, as surging oil prices trigger unmanageable inflation. Consider the effects of $30 gasoline.

But the second week of the war could be even worse. Iran isn’t Iraq or Libya, or even North Korea. While it’s often described as a rogue state, Iran has powerful allies. It’s now part of a global bloc called BRICS, which represents the majority of the world’s landmass, population, economy and military power. Iran has extensive military ties with Russia. It sells the overwhelming majority of its oil exports to China. Iran isn’t alone. An attack on Iran could very easily become a world war. We’d lose.

None of these are far fetched predictions. Most of them comport with the Pentagon’s own estimates: many Americans would die during a war with Iran. People like Mark Levin don’t seem to care about this. It’s not relevant to them. Instead they insist that Iran give up all uranium enrichment, regardless of its purpose. They know perfectly well that Iran will never accept that demand. They’ll fight first. And of course that’s the whole point of pushing for it: to box the Trump administration into a regime change war in Iran.

“The one thing that people like Mark Levin don’t want is a peaceful solution to the problem of Iran, despite the obvious benefits to the United States. They denounce anyone who advocates for a deal as a traitor and a bigot. They tell us with a straight face that Long Island native Steve Witkoff is a secret tool of Islamic monarchies. They’ll say or do whatever it takes. They have no limits. These are scary people. Pray that Donald Trump ignores them”

[The Tubs]

He's wrong about having allies. If anything, Russia's probably happy Israel is helping to normalise unilateral force.

[Moulin Yarns]

Genuine question, after world war 2 where were the Jews suppose to go? Was it not the case that they had some historical links also and after the nazi’s the world agreed that they should settle their?

I don’t know the history that well which is why I refrain from commenting on the conflict

The most vociferous Jewish people I know are all American. Maybe Utah or Arizona could take them.

Only joking.

[Hibspur]

Genuine question, after world war 2 where were the Jews suppose to go? Was it not the case that they had some historical links also and after the nazi’s the world agreed that they should settle their?

I don’t know the history that well which is why I refrain from commenting on the conflict

From a purely historical point of view, Israel's ancient claim to the land trumps the Palestinian claim by several hundred years. The movement to create a national home for the Jewish people in that part of the world goes back to the end of the First World War and the fall of the Ottoman Empire, but modern day Israel wasn't established until post-World War Two. The land had long been contested by Jews and Arabs and its division was badly handled.

There's a first-class BBC documentary series called The Fifty Years War: Israel and the Arabs (still available on iplayer I think) which charts the conflict from 1948-1998.

Personally I'm inclined to agree with the late, great Jewish American writer Harlan Ellison who had this to say:

"Here’s my opinion: all of you guys out there in the Middle East are out of the same melting pot, and you’re all as crazy as a butterfly on absinthe. I don’t know whether you’re all Canaanites at the base, or you’re all Jews at the base, or outa the Land of Nod, or whatever the hell you were at the git-go—Semites or what not—but you’ve been fighting there now for something like 8,000 years! You’ve never had five minutes of quiet and peace; you’re forever killing each other over the Holy Grail, or whatever the hell it is, and the rest of the world has had to suffer with this. Great things have come out of the Middle East, but stupidity seems to be your chief export—stupidity and violence are your cash crops, all you.”

“My solution to the problem in the Middle East is this: We erect a wall 26 miles high around the entire Middle East. That’s Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Egypt, all of you—the whole bunch of you—26 miles high with one door, like a regular door in the front of a house. And every 10 years, we will open the door and look inside. If you’re still fighting, we close the door. Loz ze gein, you should live and be well—go and fight and kill yourselves. But if we peek inside and it’s safe, if it’s nice, if you’re not fighting, and you’ve got peace and quiet, you can come out and play with the rest of us like human people."

[Hibspur]

How does it do that?


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Genocidal fanatics stage a raid on a neighbouring country they despise, taking out as many of its citizens as they can, then claim their neighbours are the genocidal ones when they come to hunt them down. Other people buy into this.

That would be my take on it.

[Callum_62]

Genocidal fanatics stage a raid on a neighbouring country they despise, taking out as many of its citizens as they can, then claim their neighbours are the genocidal ones when they come to hunt them down. Other people buy into this.

That would be my take on it.That's certainly a take.

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[Kato]

Genocidal fanatics stage a raid on a neighbouring country they despise, taking out as many of its citizens as they can, then claim their neighbours are the genocidal ones when they come to hunt them down. Other people buy into this.

That would be my take on it.

"Come to hunt them down" seems to be a blunt, broad term there.

There are genocidal maniacs on both sides of that situation. The Palastinians have Hamas who are fanatics and the Israelis have a fundamental element whose religious book warrants genocide and gives instructions from their God to do so.

They are both sick in the head.

The Irish situation started to seem more resolvable once terms like "men of violence" started to be used. The term would be useful here but I understand it doesn't suit either sides agenda or those who seek to profit from it.

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[He's here!]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/14/uk-moves-jets-to-middle-east-as-starmer-refuses-to-rule-out-defending-israel

UK jets heading to the region.

[JimBHibees]

Iran is a fundamentalist dictatorship. Whatever you feel about their current government, Israel is a parliamentary democracy (the only one in the Middle East) and an indispensable strategic ally to the West.

Democratic governments and dictatorships appear a bit more blurred given recent events

[JimBHibees]

Or perhaps a useful reminder of the fact that this supposed genocide was triggered by a mass terrorist attack involving the slaughter of civilians and the taking of hostages? Terrorists who embed themselves within and below civilian infrastructure, content to increase civilian casualties for propaganda purposes. Hamas knew fine well the consequences of their actions and appear to care not a jot for the people they're purported to 'govern'.

Supposed genocide ffs

[DinkyTwo]

Who’s the European state?Not sure if that's a serious question, but they no longer exist. The allies defeated them and their plans of expansionism to take over Europe in WW2

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[He's here!]

It's not quite as simple as that is it . Israel has been under attack for the entirety of its existence. They had to learn to fight or there wouldn't be an Israel today .

As well as the excellent BBC series mentioned the Netflix documentary Inside The Mossad goes deep into exactly that steely determination to fend off threats to Israel's statehood. In addition the pursuit of Nazis, particularly thee way they brought Adolf Eichmann to justice, is compelling stuff.

[Bishop Hibee]

As well as the excellent BBC series mentioned the Netflix documentary Inside The Mossad goes deep into exactly that steely determination to fend off threats to Israel's statehood. In addition the pursuit of Nazis, particularly thee way they brought Adolf Eichmann to justice, is compelling stuff.

The biggest threat to Israeli statehood are the genocidal extremists leading Israel at present.

[DinkyTwo]

Iranians starting to flee Tehran today.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/15/middleeast/iranians-flee-cities-israeli-strikes-intl

Guess without the protection of an 'iron dome', state of the art bomb shelters and warning systems, safest thing to do is just leave.



Iranian experts have said that by attacking residential areas in Iran, Israel has “crossed the Rubicon” – or passed the point of no return – and is inviting attacks of the same kind from Tehran.

“We don’t support the Iranian regime, but we are against Israel attacking residential areas and civilians,” said an older male Tehran resident. “If Israel is against Iran’s nuclear program and military capabilities, they should target those areas and not create another situation like what is happening in Gaza.”

...

Unlike Israel, Iran’s capital Tehran doesn’t have modern bomb shelters, so the city must make use of tunnels, basements or older shelters used in the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s – the last time the country faced such a grave national emergency.




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[The Tubs]

Iranians starting to flee Tehran today.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/15/middleeast/iranians-flee-cities-israeli-strikes-intl

Guess without the protection of an 'iron dome', state of the art bomb shelters and warning systems, safest thing to do is just leave.





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Aye. Cheers, Israel. Farage, Le Pen, etc. must be licking their lips at the idea of more refugees they can kick up **** about.

[Hibspur]

Iranians starting to flee Tehran today.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/15/middleeast/iranians-flee-cities-israeli-strikes-intl

Guess without the protection of an 'iron dome', state of the art bomb shelters and warning systems, safest thing to do is just leave.

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From the New York Times:

As criticism within Iran of the regime’s handling of the crisis begins to surface, it is likely to find itself under pressure to explain its inability to defend the nation from Israel’s assault, despite the vast sums it claims to have spent upgrading the Iranian military.
Private text messages shared with The New York Times reveal that some Iranian officials are questioning why Iran’s air defences have not been more effective in repelling Israel’s attacks, which hit its arsenal of ballistic missiles and assassinated senior figures (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/06/13/mohammad-bagheri-iran-islamic-revolutionary-guard-khameini/) in Tehran’s military chain of command.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://skwawkbox.org/2025/06/15/video-new-iranian-barrages-hit-israel-as-proof-leaks-of-mass-iron-dome-failure-and-netanyahu-hides/

Iron dome isn't able to cope.

[Hibspur]

Aye. Cheers, Israel. Farage, Le Pen, etc. must be licking their lips at the idea of more refugees they can kick up **** about.

Anyone looking for a good guy/bad guy narrative here should be aware that Iran don't qualify as good guys.

This is what has sparked Israel's attack on their nuclear facilities:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3v6w2qr12o

The US has been in talks with Iran for two months to try and end its uranium enrichment, but like most of Trump's attempts to negotiate peaceful solutions it's been all talk with few tangible results. Israel knows fine well that they'd be the first target of a weaponised Iran so has taken decisive action.

Iran's proxies Hezbollah were responsible for keeping the Assad regime in power in Syria for so long, while Iran has also provided Putin with plenty of support in his war against Ukraine. Whatever criticism Israel may merit, it's hard to feel any pity for Iran, whose nuclear ambitions would provide a threat to us all.

[Ozyhibby]

https://skwawkbox.org/2025/06/15/video-new-iranian-barrages-hit-israel-as-proof-leaks-of-mass-iron-dome-failure-and-netanyahu-hides/

Iron dome isn't able to cope.

Iran can’t sustain this level of attack either though.


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[JimBHibees]

Anyone looking for a good guy/bad guy narrative here should be aware that Iran don't qualify as good guys.

This is what has sparked Israel's attack on their nuclear facilities:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3v6w2qr12o

The US has been in talks with Iran for two months to try and end its uranium enrichment, but like most of Trump's attempts to negotiate peaceful solutions it's been all talk with few tangible results. Israel knows fine well that they'd be the first target of a weaponised Iran so has taken decisive action.

Iran's proxies Hezbollah were responsible for keeping the Assad regime in power in Syria for so long, while Iran has also provided Putin with plenty of support in his war against Ukraine. Whatever criticism Israel may merit, it's hard to feel any pity for Iran, whose nuclear ambitions would provide a threat to us all.

So only the west get to decide who is able to get the new toys. That seems fair. Given many international problems have in the main been started or instigated by the west through things like regime change, colonial actions from the past seems ever so slightly hypocritical

[He's here!]

So only the west get to decide who is able to get the new toys. That seems fair. Given many international problems have in the main been started or instigated by the west through things like regime change, colonial actions from the past seems ever so slightly hypocritical

Cool heads are needed from the West for sure, but to just let Iran go ahead and build nuclear weapons would be madness.

[Ozyhibby]

Cool heads are needed from the West for sure, but to just let Iran go ahead and build nuclear weapons would be madness.

Especially as they are committed to use it when they get it.


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[DinkyTwo]

This all has an Iraq weapons of mass destruction version 2 feel to it.

In other words, an excuse to start a war that instigates a regime change.

Destabilising Iran conveniently paves the way for Israel taking control of the remaining Palestinian land without fear of repercussion.

Obviously a bit of a guess on my part, but I've seen enough to be skeptical of the motives here.

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[Mon Dieu4]

This all has an Iraq weapons of mass destruction version 2 feel to it.

In other words, an excuse to start a war that instigates a regime change.

Destabilising Iran conveniently paves the way for Israel taking control of the remaining Palestinian land without fear of repercussion.

Obviously a bit of a guess on my part, but I've seen enough to be skeptical of the motives here.

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I'm sure the International atomic agency says Iran has enriched Uranium to 60-80% you only need as high as 5% for power usage, so if you believe them then they are definitely at it

[Ozyhibby]

This all has an Iraq weapons of mass destruction version 2 feel to it.

In other words, an excuse to start a war that instigates a regime change.

Destabilising Iran conveniently paves the way for Israel taking control of the remaining Palestinian land without fear of repercussion.

Obviously a bit of a guess on my part, but I've seen enough to be skeptical of the motives here.

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The only fear Isreal has of Iran is nuclear. The reality is that after oct 7 the Israeli’s have decided that they no longer wish to live with the threats from Iran’s proxies. And the only real way to deal with that is to change the regime in Iran. They know Hamas and Hezbollah will be able to reconstitute in time if Iran is allowed to keep funding them. The need to go after Iran.


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[He's here!]

This all has an Iraq weapons of mass destruction version 2 feel to it.

In other words, an excuse to start a war that instigates a regime change.

Destabilising Iran conveniently paves the way for Israel taking control of the remaining Palestinian land without fear of repercussion.

Obviously a bit of a guess on my part, but I've seen enough to be skeptical of the motives here.

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It's the International Atomic Energy Association which has found Iran in breach of its nuclear proliferation agreement. That's a global watchdog comprising something like 40 members. This isn't some sketchy allegation.

[DinkyTwo]

I'm sure the International atomic agency says Iran has enriched Uranium to 60-80% you only need as high as 5% for power usage, so if you believe them then they are definitely at itActually, you know what, this has forced me to do a bit more reading up on the subject.

I think I've let my disgust at the treatment of Palestine cloud my judgement a bit. Seems like Iran have been working to create nuclear weapons for years and their intention of what they plan to do with them is unclear at best.

Seems to be one of those situations where both parties (Israel and Iran) are going to come out of it stinking of ****.

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[DinkyTwo]

Fair enough guys, appreciate the info and I've educated myself a bit better on the subject.

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[Mon Dieu4]

Fair enough guys, appreciate the info and I've educated myself a bit better on the subject.

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Totally get it, with the Israeli and Iranian Governments it's a bit like do you want a poke in the eye or kick in the baws, both a bunch of lunatics

[Paul1642]

The only fear Isreal has of Iran is nuclear. The reality is that after oct 7 the Israeli’s have decided that they no longer wish to live with the threats from Iran’s proxies. And the only real way to deal with that is to change the regime in Iran. They know Hamas and Hezbollah will be able to reconstitute in time if Iran is allowed to keep funding them. The need to go after Iran.


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I think this hits the nail on the head. Isreal simply won’t be left in peace (I’m not getting involved in the debate as to whether or not they want peace) whilst Iran is run by the current regime, funding and organising various regionalised terror groups who are anti Israeli.

The poster you quoted compared it to the Iraq war which I simply can’t agree with. This isn’t a far off country 2 thousand miles away from Isreal. Iran are on their doorstep and willing them destroyed. It’s the means to do so that Iran lack and I don’t blame Isreal for stopping them from gaining those means.

I also think the fall of the Iranian regime would be a very good thing for the Palestinians. Become free from Hamas and any future military action from Isreal will be much more black and white in terms of not being justifiable.

[Bishop Hibee]

Totally get it, with the Israeli and Iranian Governments it's a bit like do you want a poke in the eye or kick in the baws, both a bunch of lunatics

Both vile regimes.

[Stairway 2 7]

Both vile regimes for sure and im happy Iranian nuclear facilities are getting a pounding but it's by a regime that is commuting a genocide. Yes Israel had the right to hit military targets after October 7th but they are flattening residential areas in a nation they have been commuting genocide on for decades. I don't see a way out like Northern Ireland as all regimes near and including Israel would exterminate each other

[Bostonhibby]

The only fear Isreal has of Iran is nuclear. The reality is that after oct 7 the Israeli’s have decided that they no longer wish to live with the threats from Iran’s proxies. And the only real way to deal with that is to change the regime in Iran. They know Hamas and Hezbollah will be able to reconstitute in time if Iran is allowed to keep funding them. The need to go after Iran.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSadly, I think this is exactly right.

Really is a much more dangerous two cheeks situation with much deadlier consequences for a number of innocents caught in the crossfire.

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[Hibs4185]

As above, the sooner Russia and Iran are defeated, the sooner the world returns to some sort of normality. Their influence is behind a lot of world events.

[WestStandWillie]

Russia and Israel are the root of all evil.

How many more innocent people must die for the purposes of land grabbing?

[Smartie]

Rather than blame the nations themselves, the current regimes in charge of Israel, Iran, Russia and the USA are unfortunately total headbangers that the citizens of their respective countries would be well rid of.

Anything resembling sensible adults in charge of these countries would see the world be a much better and safer place.

A place where the human rights abuses of the likes of the Saudis and the Chinese were near the top of the problem list, as they should be.


There are pretty big tensions between all the factions right now and the US look primed to get more involved in Iran. Unless Trump (a coward, who does love a u-turn) can be talked round then it could be getting ugly there, soon. Seemingly he quite fancied being in control of the Iranian oil but the conflict there is seeing him finding himself being pulled between his two big man crushes - Putin and Netanyahu.

[Ozyhibby]

https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.com/post/3lrqcg7zjik2f

On the spot reporting.


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[Hibspur]

Both vile regimes.

Even under the current Israeli government, your life would be immeasurably more liberated than in Iran, especially if you're a woman or gay.

To put that in context, Israel is the only Middle Eastern country to offer legal protections for LGBT+ people (Tel Aviv's Pride parade is among the biggest in the world), while in Iran homosexuality remains punishable by death. Iranian legislation also allows the imposition of the death penalty on women who defy the compulsory veiling laws.

[Stairway 2 7]

Even under the current Israeli government, your life would be immeasurably more liberated than in Iran, especially if you're a woman or gay.

To put that in context, Israel is the only Middle Eastern country to offer legal protections for LGBT+ people (Tel Aviv's Pride parade is among the biggest in the world), while in Iran homosexuality remains punishable by death. Iranian legislation also allows the imposition of the death penalty on women who defy the compulsory veiling laws.

But if your one of the 10k Palestinian bairns slaughtered, not so liberated

[Bishop Hibee]

Even under the current Israeli government, your life would be immeasurably more liberated than in Iran, especially if you're a woman or gay.

To put that in context, Israel is the only Middle Eastern country to offer legal protections for LGBT+ people (Tel Aviv's Pride parade is among the biggest in the world), while in Iran homosexuality remains punishable by death. Iranian legislation also allows the imposition of the death penalty on women who defy the compulsory veiling laws.

There’s only one of those regimes committing genocide at present. Don’t use ‘whitabootery’ to let the far right maniacs leading Israel off the hook.

[Hibspur]

Russia and Israel are the root of all evil.



That's quite the exaggeration when it comes to Israel. How about China under Mao (nearly 50 million killed)? The Nazi Holocaust (14 million dead)? The Soviet Union under Stalin (13 million dead)? The Khmer Rouge/Pol Pot? Or more recently the genocides in Rwanda and Darfur? Israel's current (democratically elected) government is hard line and their current actions polarise opinion, but the country has consistently found itself fighting to preserve the Middle East's only Jewish state. There's a lot of focus on 1948 being the start of the Arab/Israeli conflict, but Jews have been one of the most consistently persecuted races in history and their battle against anti-Semitism in the region goes back many centuries.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Russia and Israel are the root of all evil.

How many more innocent people must die for the purposes of land grabbing?

this is absolute horse ****.

Israel, as it exists today, is a direct and more-or-less deliberate result of Europe outsourcing its massive anti-semitism problem onto the middle east, whilst in the process turning an utterly devastated and traumatised population into an attack dog for the purposes of western interests. It needn't have been done this way, and the fact that it was is almost entirely the west's fault. This isn't to say that the west is the root of all evil - i think that root can be found in people all over the world. that is, the impulse towards imperialism, and the willingness of populations to turn a blind eye to it when it suits them to do so.

i'll give you this though - Netenyahu and Putin are evil.

[Smartie]

Talk of there being all sorts going on at the G7 - Americans falling out with folk left, right and centre.

It'll be the G6 after this...

Incredibly tense and hostile, instead of it being the G7, the Chinese, Indians, Mexicans and others are there too. "Americans not reading the room" seemingly.

[Stairway 2 7]

That's quite the exaggeration when it comes to Israel. How about China under Mao (nearly 50 million killed)? The Nazi Holocaust (14 million dead)? The Soviet Union under Stalin (13 million dead)? The Khmer Rouge/Pol Pot? Or more recently the genocides in Rwanda and Darfur? Israel's current (democratically elected) government is hard line and their current actions polarise opinion, but the country has consistently found itself fighting to preserve the Middle East's only Jewish state. There's a lot of focus on 1948 being the start of the Arab/Israeli conflict, but Jews have been one of the most consistently persecuted races in history and their battle against anti-Semitism in the region goes back many centuries.

Some crown for Netanyahu, you're not as bad as Pol Pot. Israel is certainly an evil regime. Being persecuted doesn't mean you deliberately flatten areas when you have the most precise weapons in the world. Thousands of children butchered in revenge of having the wrong regime in charge of them.

[Hibspur]

Some crown for Netanyahu, you're not as bad as Pol Pot. Israel is certainly an evil regime. Being persecuted doesn't mean you deliberately flatten areas when you have the most precise weapons in the world. Thousands of children butchered in revenge of having the wrong regime in charge of them.

There's only so much precision possible when (as another poster pointed out a few days ago) the terrorists you're targeting embed themselves in civilian infrastructure - thereby increasing civilian casualties for propaganda purposes.

Extremists on both sides, no question, but Hamas too often get a free pass for the misery they've deliberately manufactured for the people they claim to represent.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's only so much precision possible when (as another poster pointed out a few days ago) the terrorists you're targeting embed themselves in civilian infrastructure - thereby increasing civilian casualties for propaganda purposes.

Extremists on both sides, no question, but Hamas too often get a free pass for the misery they've deliberately manufactured for the people they claim to represent.

Bollocks quite frankly. Have you seen drone footage flown over raffa, every building hit for miles. Hamas weren't hiding in every home it's a disgusting cop out. EMN in the US estimate Israel has dropped 100,000 tons of bombs on gaza or 100 kiloton. The Hiroshima bomb was 15 kiloton so roughly the equivalent of seven dropped on Gaza. The footage of burning refugee tents and limbless kids must be hiding the Hamas military behind them

[Kato]

There's only so much precision possible when (as another poster pointed out a few days ago) the terrorists you're targeting embed themselves in civilian infrastructure - thereby increasing civilian casualties for propaganda purposes.

Extremists on both sides, no question, but Hamas too often get a free pass for the misery they've deliberately manufactured for the people they claim to represent.Propaganda purposes. Sure...

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[Lendo]

Some crown for Netanyahu, you're not as bad as Pol Pot. Israel is certainly an evil regime. Being persecuted doesn't mean you deliberately flatten areas when you have the most precise weapons in the world. Thousands of children butchered in revenge of having the wrong regime in charge of them.

Spot on.