Hamas attack on Israel

[Paul1642]

Not related but I'd read in 30 years violent attacks are down 83% and burglaries 86% in the uk, maybe one for the beer at football thread ha. Early 90s must have been radge but I'd think some people think it's worse now, due to every crime being reported whether that is on the news or locally through social media

Not to disbelieve your stats but find the violent attacks figure remarkable. I would have thought the state on London alone at the moment enough to skyrocket that figure. I wonder if even though the number is down, the severity might be up?

Edinburgh (and probably other Scottish city’s) on the hand i would figure the chances of being attacked by a stranger are now really low and I certainly feel safe even walking through the ‘rougher areas’ for the most part at any time of day or night.

There must have been a lot of houses getting screwed in the 90s but i suppose the nature of housebreakings is very different now. No more searching for cash or electronics. Just car keys and jewellery now.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not to disbelieve your stats but find the violent attacks figure remarkable. I would have thought the state on London alone at the moment enough to skyrocket that figure. I wonder if even though the number is down, the severity might be up?

Edinburgh (and probably other Scottish city’s) on the hand i would figure the chances of being attacked by a stranger are now really low and I certainly feel safe even walking through the ‘rougher areas’ for the most part at any time of day or night.

There must have been a lot of houses getting screwed in the 90s but i suppose the nature of housebreakings is very different now. No more searching for cash or electronics. Just car keys and jewellery now.

It's all types of reported violent crimes uk wide. Hospital admissions in London for stabbings is pretty much flat over the last 15 years. The difference if someone was stabbed in London then no chance would we know about it as it wouldn't be national news worthy. Now though we'll get videos of it on twitter and possibly videos sent in group chats. London is a safe city but it's massive with a bigger pop than Scotland, people will get hurt but we will now hear about it. I guess the camera phones and cctv make it harder for nutters to get away with it or repeat it without consequence.
Off topic sorry

https://policinginsight.com/feature/analysis/most-crime-has-fallen-by-90-in-30-years-so-why-does-the-public-think-its-increased/

Most crime has fallen by 90% in 30 years – so why does the public think it’s increased?


Seventy-eight per cent of people in England and Wales think that crime has gone up in the last few years, according to the latest survey. But the data on actual crime shows the exact opposite

[Andy Bee]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288256/violent-crimes-in-england-and-wales/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/617782/violent-crimes-scotland/

[Ozyhibby]

Starmer calling for a ceasefire. I would have thought he would have more to say than that? A ceasefire would be a nice thing to have and there will always be people calling for it but would have thought the PM would realise that there is zero chance of that happening just now and that we might have heard more about how he thinks it could happen?


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288256/violent-crimes-in-england-and-wales/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/617782/violent-crimes-scotland/

An older article on the difference in the recording and the three crime survey that shows the huge drop is better in their opinion, **** knows though.

https://theconversation.com/fact-check-has-violent-crime-gone-up-40915

First, police-recorded crime statistics: these include incidents that come to the attention of the police and are recorded by them as “crimes”. Second, the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW): this is a very large, rolling annual survey of sizeable sample of the population. Both sources have their problems, but it is generally the crime survey that is considered the more reliable indicator of the two.

The data from the crime survey is very clear. Violent crime has been in almost continual decline since the mid-1990s and current estimates suggest it is at its lowest level since the survey was instituted at the beginning of the 1980s.

[Stairway 2 7]

Starmer calling for a ceasefire. I would have thought he would have more to say than that? A ceasefire would be a nice thing to have and there will always be people calling for it but would have thought the PM would realise that there is zero chance of that happening just now and that we might have heard more about how he thinks it could happen?


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Isn't it the same as when we called for a ceasefire in Gaza at the start of the year. It was never going to happen but it was us just saying what we wished for.

There is clearly going to be retaliation but Israel is saying only one death and minimal damage so how hard can they go.

[Mon Dieu4]

Isn't it the same as when we called for a ceasefire in Gaza at the start of the year. It was never going to happen but it was us just saying what we wished for.

There is clearly going to be retaliation but Israel is saying only one death and minimal damage so how hard can they go.

They have said they will hit back at a time of their choosing, Iran have also come out and said that if Israel or the US hit any of their oil fields then they will take out the oil fields in Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain etc

Mental times all because the US and UK haven't gone hard enough in getting Israel to calm the **** down with their warmongering and genocide

[Moulin Yarns]

They have said they will hit back at a time of their choosing, Iran have also come out and said that if Israel or the US hit any of their oil fields then they will take out the oil fields in Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain etc

Mental times all because the US and UK haven't gone hard enough in getting Israel to calm the **** down with their warmongering and genocide

I noticed 2 of my neighbours got oil delivered today, wonder if they know something you don't? 🤣

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/theinsiderpaper/status/1841233956487753758?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Iran says they are done unless Isreal hits back. They don’t mean they are done funding Hezbollah to hit Isreal though.


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[Jim44]

Haven’t seen recent stats but the world has mostly got less violent over the years. 24 hour tv news just means we hear more about it.


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Despite your reference to more extensive news coverage, I find it hard to agree with your premise that the world is less violent nowadays. Like you, I don’t have statistics but just gut feelings.
Ozyhibby, I admire your constant downplaying and optimistic view of international issues, such as the ongoing wars, Putin’s possible if not probable escalation of warmongering at an earth shattering level and the possible, to my mind likely, disastrous return of Trump to major politics and I would love to think you are correct, but at this moment in time I find the prospects for world peace and harmony depressing and worrying.

[Jones28]

UK and US troops were involved in shooting down the missiles fired at Israel, as if supplying them with the weapons they're launching at women and children wasn't involved enough we actually help with their Iron Dome or whatever it's called.

I don't want to see any lives lost on either side but at what point are we dropping the pretense that we aren't at war with whoever it is Israel wants to pick a fight with?

[Ozyhibby]

UK and US troops were involved in shooting down the missiles fired at Israel, as if supplying them with the weapons they're launching at women and children wasn't involved enough we actually help with their Iron Dome or whatever it's called.

I don't want to see any lives lost on either side but at what point are we dropping the pretense that we aren't at war with whoever it is Israel wants to pick a fight with?

Isn’t it Iran picking a fight with Isreal? When it comes to Gaza and West Bank I’m firmly on the side of the Palestinians but Lebanon and Iran are firing rockets at Isreal.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Isn’t it Iran picking a fight with Isreal? When it comes to Gaza and West Bank I’m firmly on the side of the Palestinians but Lebanon and Iran are firing rockets at Isreal.


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why do you think they are doing it though? is it really as simple as 'just to pick a fight'?

the other thing to bear in mind is that Iran know fine well that their rockets aren't going to cause anything other than financial damage to Israel (though tbf, the rocket attacks would have been absolutely terrifying for those living in Israel)

[Jones28]

Isn’t it Iran picking a fight with Isreal? When it comes to Gaza and West Bank I’m firmly on the side of the Palestinians but Lebanon and Iran are firing rockets at Isreal.


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Personally I think both sides are cultivating an environment in which War will be the only option.

Look as Isreals posturing since the missile attack - they are threatening retaliation despite zero casualties.

Why? They can swat missiles out the air and stick the two fingers up at Iran without having to retaliate.

I don't have any skin in the game other than wanting it all to stop because if it does kick off it will turn in to a proxy war between the West and the Russians which could lead to anything. Russia have a lot of skin in the game with Syria and Iran.

[AgentDaleCooper]

UK and US troops were involved in shooting down the missiles fired at Israel, as if supplying them with the weapons they're launching at women and children wasn't involved enough we actually help with their Iron Dome or whatever it's called.

I don't want to see any lives lost on either side but at what point are we dropping the pretense that we aren't at war with whoever it is Israel wants to pick a fight with?

tbf, this is the one thing we actually SHOULD be helping with (and I'm glad we are) - an unfortunate side effect of it, however, is that it contributes to Israel being able to act with relative impunity towards its neighbours/colonised people.

the thing is though - we are the main reason Israel NEEDS an iron dome, because we very consciously and deliberately set it up to be, and i quote, 'a loyal little Ulster in the Middle East'. We betrayed the victims of the holocaust, and outsourced Europe's massive anti-semitism problem onto the Middle East. (I've only recently realised how bad this is, and actually started learning Yiddish in solidarity with my Jewish pals).

Israel is behaving as it always has - as a settler colonial power. This is how we built it, and how we have encouraged it to behave. Present hostilities are very significantly shaped by this, and the cold war (in terms of Iran).

This is the moral landscape of the present conflict in Israel. The 'save democracy' thing is absolute horse-**** propaganda, trying to rally support amongst Western Liberals. It's window dressing in terms of what's going on, and not even true if you ask a lot of Israelis, who would say that they are ruled by a fascist dictator in Bibi.

EDIT: just in case it seems from any of the above that I'm saying Israel shouldn't exist, I am absolutely not - I just think we deliberately shanked it to further our interests, and THIS is what needs fixing, as it is the root of Hamas, Hezbollah and all the rest.

[Ozyhibby]

tbf, this is the one thing we actually SHOULD be helping with (and I'm glad we are) - an unfortunate side effect of it, however, is that it contributes to Israel being able to act with relative impunity towards its neighbours/colonised people.

the thing is though - we are the main reason Israel NEEDS an iron dome, because we very consciously and deliberately set it up to be, and i quote, 'a loyal little Ulster in the Middle East'. We betrayed the victims of the holocaust, and outsourced Europe's massive anti-semitism problem onto the Middle East. (I've only recently realised how bad this is, and actually started learning Yiddish in solidarity with my Jewish pals).

Israel is behaving as it always has - as a settler colonial power. This is how we built it, and how we have encouraged it to behave. Present hostilities are very significantly shaped by this, and the cold war (in terms of Iran).

This is the moral landscape of the present conflict in Israel. The 'save democracy' thing is absolute horse-**** propaganda, trying to rally support amongst Western Liberals. It's window dressing in terms of what's going on, and not even true if you ask a lot of Israelis, who would say that they are ruled by a fascist dictator in Bibi.

EDIT: just in case it seems from any of the above that I'm saying Israel shouldn't exist, I am absolutely not - I just think we deliberately shanked it to further our interests, and THIS is what needs fixing, as it is the root of Hamas, Hezbollah and all the rest.

I think your History is probably correct but doesn’t help us now. We need to find a way to a two state solution. All parties are going to have to give things up for that to happen.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

I think your History is probably correct but doesn’t help us now. We need to find a way to a two state solution. All parties are going to have to give things up for that to happen.


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I agree, but the problem is that Hamas and their allies (and tbh anyone in the region bar Israel and to an extent Saudi Arabia) have absolutely no reason to trust the intentions of any of the big players in brokering such a deal. Palestine is supported by just about every country in the UN, save for the ones who actually have any say...who also happen to be the ones giving their oppressors all their weapons.

The other issue is simply what do Palestinians have left to compromise? They have barely anything left, yet the west continues to let Israel act without consequence in the West Bank. You can even book an AirBnB in the settlements, FFS.

The west needs to radically alter its approach and the way it supports Israel's existence. The only morally justifiable approach I can think of is for them to say "look, if you want protection against Iran, you need to get completely out of the West Bank and Gaza by date X", because THAT is the point at which 'compromise' can start to be meaningful, and you can start talking about getting rid of Hamas. Let's not forget, Bibi actually gave them financial support when they were being set up in the 80s, because he saw them (correctly) as a destabilising force.

I get the appeal of pragmatism, but in situations like this, at best all you're doing is kicking the can down the road and hoping the problem doesn't get any worse (which it always does). That's what we've done before, and IMO that's what set the stage for the attacks last year.

[Bristolhibby]

Yeah I was in shock at how they pulled it off, setting up companies years in advanced. Probably the most successful spy operation ever. Horrible army's like the Nazis or the UK in India can have amazing military operations, doesn't make them not horrendous.

Operation Greif by the Nazis was amazing. Soldiers dressed in US uniforms flew in behind enemy lines and caused havoc. They started directing tanks convoys down wrong roads, destroyed ammunition dumps, switched road signs and cut electric and phone lines. When it was uncovered the US had to use a lot of men to set up road blocks all over. The more famous operation mincemeat was cool too

Yet they knew nothing about October 7th? Beggars belief.

Or they let October 7th happen to give them pretext to flatten Gaza and destroy Hamas and Hezbolla.

J

[Bristolhibby]

UK and US troops were involved in shooting down the missiles fired at Israel, as if supplying them with the weapons they're launching at women and children wasn't involved enough we actually help with their Iron Dome or whatever it's called.

I don't want to see any lives lost on either side but at what point are we dropping the pretense that we aren't at war with whoever it is Israel wants to pick a fight with?

No way we helped with Iron Dome. The opposite is true. Our Sky Sabre air defence system has something similar to the Israeli Iron Dome system and is provided by the Israelis to the British Army.

My guess is the U.K. Provided some real time intel on missiles over Syria. (Remember we are still flying and bombing over there vs Deash).

J

[Pretty Boy]

Yet they knew nothing about October 7th? Beggars belief.

Or they let October 7th happen to give them pretext to flatten Gaza and destroy Hamas and Hezbolla.

J

Netanyahu has made a career out of bolstering Hamas and outright encouraging financing of them, particularly from Qatar. There is an irony that this was something of a scandal in Israel itself a couple of years ago, with the Haaretz newspaper doing some serious investigative journalism, but is largely ignored or perhaps unknown in the west. The New York Times ran a piece on it last year in the wake off the October 7th attacks and were promptly set upon by the Anti Defamation League and other Israeli lobbyists for being 'anti Semitic'. Quite how uncovering some pretty shady political shenanigans by a fascist warmonger is anti Semitic is anyone's guess but it's a cry that generally works in silencing anyone who gets a bit too critical of the Israeli government, particularly the incumbent one.

[Lendo]

Personally I think both sides are cultivating an environment in which War will be the only option.

Look as Isreals posturing since the missile attack - they are threatening retaliation despite zero casualties.

Why? They can swat missiles out the air and stick the two fingers up at Iran without having to retaliate.

I don't have any skin in the game other than wanting it all to stop because if it does kick off it will turn in to a proxy war between the West and the Russians which could lead to anything. Russia have a lot of skin in the game with Syria and Iran.

One casualty, innocent Palestinian man working in a field. Suspect Isreal won’t be retaliating on his behalf though.

[cabbageandribs1875]

remains of a missile in southern israel, what a size

28191

[Jones28]

One casualty, innocent Palestinian man working in a field. Suspect Isreal won’t be retaliating on his behalf though.

Apologies, 1 is too many.

[DaveF]

Just the 24 health workers killed by Israel in the last day.

And over a million displaced by their invasion of Lebanon.

[grunt]

Powerful stuff

https://x.com/hzomlot/status/1843562992811774310

[Pretty Boy]

How come it passes largely without comment by western leaders that Israel has developed a habit of telling people to leave a certain area then subsequently blowing **** out of the major roads out of said area? Usually when there are a fair few people using said roads to follow Israeli demands. Happened multiple times in Gaza and again in Lebanon.

To their credit it is something the BBC has reported on regularly.

[DaveF]

Israel won't be happy until they have blown the hell out of Lebanon and left it in the same uninhabitable mess that Gaza is.

A scorched earth policy that the Nazis would have been proud of.

[easty]

How come it passes largely without comment by western leaders that Israel has developed a habit of telling people to leave a certain area then subsequently blowing **** out of the major roads out of said area? Usually when there are a fair few people using said roads to follow Israeli demands. Happened multiple times in Gaza and again in Lebanon.

To their credit it is something the BBC has reported on regularly.

The other thing I can never understand is bombing a hospital, bombing a uni, bombing a school...then it's yeah but it's a hamas headquarters. Is it ever fact checked, ever? Do Isreal seriously have the right to bomb whatever they want, call it a hamas headquarters then that's it justified?

[DaveF]

CNN showing drone footage of a Lebanese village on the border with Israel, simply validates the scorched earth policy Israel is implementing.

It's just a burnt out shell.

[MKHIBEE]

The other thing I can never understand is bombing a hospital, bombing a uni, bombing a school...then it's yeah but it's a hamas headquarters. Is it ever fact checked, ever? Do Isreal seriously have the right to bomb whatever they want, call it a hamas headquarters then that's it justified?

Starmer, Biden, Harris et al just mouth worthless words at Israel, continue to allow war machinery to be sold to them and feign concern for the civilians. And Rayner sits with the Israeli ambassador who says that “every school, every mosque, every hospital, every 2nd house, is a legitimate target”. She was obviously worried that saying every house might be a bit much.Todays Labour Party, genocide apologists and enablers. Shameful

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000672195124

Really worth a listen on the events of the last year.


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[Jones28]

Powerful stuff

https://x.com/hzomlot/status/1843562992811774310

Jeez that really hits hard.

[tamig]

CNN showing drone footage of a Lebanese village on the border with Israel, simply validates the scorched earth policy Israel is implementing.

It's just a burnt out shell.

It could just as easily have been footage from Gaza. Its tragic. And a scandal. Surely not Hezbollah in every property?

[Keith_M]

Israel needs to be stopped, but the 'leaders' in the UK, US, Germany, etc, wouldn't dare do anything about it.

[tamig]

Israel needs to be stopped, but the 'leaders' in the UK, US, Germany, etc, wouldn't dare do anything about it.

Rumoured tonight that the Americans have told the Israelis if they go for the nuclear sites in Iran that they (the yanks) won’t get involved in any defence of an Iranian response. Whether that’s accurate is unclear at this time though.

[DaveF]

Israel fires at a UN base and injures 2 UN personnel. The UN also said that Israelis deliberately shooting at security cameras and yet more health workers are killed.

This murderous mob are out of control and no one is willing to reign them in.

[Bristolhibby]

Rumoured tonight that the Americans have told the Israelis if they go for the nuclear sites in Iran that they (the yanks) won’t get involved in any defence of an Iranian response. Whether that’s accurate is unclear at this time though.

Bold from Biden / Harris with weeks to go to the election. They will be praying Israel doesn’t attack Iran. Or at least wait until 6th November.

J

[JimBHibees]

Powerful stuff

https://x.com/hzomlot/status/1843562992811774310

Wow heartbreaking and powerful and true

[Hibrandenburg]

Bold from Biden / Harris with weeks to go to the election. They will be praying Israel doesn’t attack Iran. Or at least wait until 6th November.

J

It's almost as if Netanyahu ist trying to help Trump get back into the Whitehouse.

[Keith_M]

Bold from Biden / Harris with weeks to go to the election. They will be praying Israel doesn’t attack Iran. Or at least wait until 6th November.

J


Any politician in the US that dares oppose Israel risks losing a lot of support/donations from very wealthy and very influential groups.... including extremely powerful Media groups that would best be described as 'Pro-Israel'*


The US presidential race has already seen (totally ridiculous) claims of anti-semitism thrown about and if any of that sticks, it's the death knell of your political ambitions.

[Bishop Hibee]

IDF soldiers shooting at peacekeeping troops now. The ethnic cleansing of Gaza and destruction of Lebanon will continue as the USA won’t intervene. Dark days.

[Pretty Boy]

IDF soldiers shooting at peacekeeping troops now. The ethnic cleansing of Gaza and destruction of Lebanon will continue as the USA won’t intervene. Dark days.

I was reading a piece the other night that said there is no way those troops can be mistaken for anything other than what they are.

Israel had demanded they move previously. The UN force, as is their right under international law, refused and then they were hit a few days later. That is a breach of humanitarian law. Without wishing to elevate either side morally in the proxy war of the genocidal zealots I think the reaction would have been somewhat different had Iran attacked a UNIFL base.

[H18S NX]

I was reading a piece the other night that said there is no way those troops can be mistaken for anything other than what they are.

Israel had demanded they move previously. The UN force, as is their right under international law, refused and then they were hit a few days later. That is a breach of humanitarian law. Without wishing to elevate either side morally in the proxy war of the genocidal zealots I think the reaction would have been somewhat different had Iran attacked a UNIFL base.....Absolutely spot on.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I was reading a piece the other night that said there is no way those troops can be mistaken for anything other than what they are.

Israel had demanded they move previously. The UN force, as is their right under international law, refused and then they were hit a few days later. That is a breach of humanitarian law. Without wishing to elevate either side morally in the proxy war of the genocidal zealots I think the reaction would have been somewhat different had Iran attacked a UNIFL base.

This is so true, and it's why we'll have absolutely no moral purchase in the region until Israel get out of Palestine completely. When all you've got is rubble, what is there left to compromise on?

[DaveF]

UK govt is 'appalled' at the Israeli attack on the UN. I'm sure Israel is not bothered in the slightest.

[Moulin Yarns]

In the last few moments we've been reporting on a Unifil statement that Israeli tanks have destroyed the main gate of a peacekeeping compound in southern Lebanon.

The statement further says that Israeli troops stopped a "critical Unifil logistical movement" yesterday near Meiss el Jebel, south of Beirut.

The organisation said that it seeks to "remind" the IDF of obligations regarding the safety of UN personnel and property. Around 10,000 UN peacekeepers are serving in Lebanon.


More now from the Unifil statement, which has accused Israeli forces of destroying the gates of one of its compounds in southern Lebanon.

The statement says the incident occurred early this morning at a UN position in Ramiya.*At approximately 04:30 local time, while peacekeepers were in shelters, two Israeli Merkava tanks "destroyed the position’s main gate and forcibly entered" the facility. Israeli troops then "requested multiple times that the base turn out its lights".

The statement says the tanks left around 45 minutes later after Unifil "protested through our liaison mechanism, saying that IDF presence was putting peacekeepers in danger".

At approximately 06:40 local time,*Unifil says, peacekeepers at the same position reported the firing of several rounds 100 meters north, which emitted smoke.

"Fifteen peacekeepers suffered effects, including skin irritation and gastrointestinal reactions, after the smoke entered the camp."

"The peacekeepers are receiving treatment," the statement adds.

[Keith_M]

If there are 10.000 UN 'peacekeepers' in South Lebanon, then what exactly are they there for?

The obvious answer would surely be to 'keep peace', e.g. stop terrorists firing missiles into Israel and stop foreign (Israeli) armies invading Lebanon.

:confused:

[Moulin Yarns]

If there are 10.000 UN 'peacekeepers' in South Lebanon, then what exactly are they there for?

The obvious answer would surely be to 'keep peace', e.g. stop terrorists firing missiles into Israel and stop foreign (Israeli) armies invading Lebanon.

:confused:

They are there to stop weapons in the blue zone, apparently!!!

[speedy_gonzales]

Did ye aye!?!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy435dx0jpko

(Cameron, conveniently now that he's not in power, saying he was gonna sanction Israeli ministers)

[cabbageandribs1875]

looks like the IDF have killed Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar in Gaza

quite graphic photos of it on twitter

[Paul1642]

looks like the IDF have killed Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar in Gaza

quite graphic photos of it on twitter

Hopefully this can be a catalyst for peace 🤞🏻

Much easier for Isreal to call it a day to some degree with one of the key figures of causing the conflict dead.

[Ozyhibby]

Hopefully this can be a catalyst for peace [emoji1695]

Much easier for Isreal to call it a day to some degree with one of the key figures of causing the conflict dead.

I really hope this is the case.[emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]


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[cabbageandribs1875]

Hopefully this can be a catalyst for peace 🤞🏻

Much easier for Isreal to call it a day to some degree with one of the key figures of causing the conflict dead.


i can't see it someone else will just pick up the baton, and certainly not until all the Hostages are returned i would think

[Paul1642]

i can't see it someone else will just pick up the baton, and certainly not until all the Hostages are returned i would think

Can always hope. Unless a terrorist group ceases to exist, there will always be a next leader. It doesn’t mean they will be as effective, popular or as heartless as their predecessor.

Backing down was never an option for Sinwar after October 7th. Perhaps his successor will see that ceasefire is the best for the people he claims to fight for, or maybe a little self preservation when you look at the Israelis ability to target and kill leaders. Like i say, we can only hope, and IMO today is much more likely to lead to a ceasefire than most other recent events.

Of course Iran pull more than a few of the strings so it might depend on whether or not they are ready to back out or not. I’d suggest that they should if their leaders have an ounce of sense.

[DaveF]

I'm not really getting the hostages thing anymore. It's not giving Hamas any leverage as Gaza is totally destroyed, hundreds of thousands are dead or injured, with many more starving.

Hand them over. I presume the remaining ones are dead anyway.

All this does is give Israel an excuse to continue to kill more innocent civilians in the name of hostage retrieval.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not really getting the hostages thing anymore. It's not giving Hamas any leverage as Gaza is totally destroyed, hundreds of thousands are dead or injured, with many more starving.

Hand them over. I presume the remaining ones are dead anyway.

All this does is give Israel an excuse to continue to kill more innocent civilians in the name of hostage retrieval.

I don’t think Hamas or anyone else thought we would be where we are now? I think the Israeli response has been of several times the magnitude that we have seen before.
Up until now there could be no negotiation because the Israeli’s would not deal with the Hamas leadership. That is gone now so maybe someone can step up and do a deal? At some point the Palestinians have to look around and try find a way to make it stop? That means no Hamas. Let’s hope they take this chance.


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[Pretty Boy]

The war ceased to be about hostages a long time ago. It's not widely reported because it doesn't suit the narrative of either 'side' but there are regular anti war and ant Netanyahu protests in Israel. These are largely orchestrated by the families of the remaining hostages who say that Netanyahu hasn't done enough to get them home and has used their loved ones as a front for a political and territorial war.

You only have to look at the ongoing encroachments into the West Bank. There has also been a ramping up of demolition orders in Palestinian neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem. The local authorities will tell you this is because the homes don't have planning permission but 95-99% of applications for planning consent from Arabs are refused; in a shock to almost no one in neighbouring areas with largely Jewish populations the success rate for planning applications is infinitely higher.

It's not really a secret. The pictures are there of Netanyahu pictured with his maps showing a plan of a 'new middle east' that has Israel and Israel alone on the map, Gaza and the West Bank are consigned to history. The aim of the destruction of Israel by Hamas and Iran is well reported and well understood; the destruction of the other side is as much an aim of the current Israeli leadership but it's less openly acknowledged despite the evidence of our eyes. I'd love to be wrong but I think any hope that this latest killing is a watershed moment is misplaced. There just isn't an Arafat or Rabin on either side in enough of a position of power to get round the table to try to get a 2 state solution back on the table (and the latter found out in no uncertain terms how unpalatable that is to some on his side). There also isn't a western leader in the vein of Clinton with the skill or gravitas to broker such talks.

The war ends when Netanyahu wants it to end or when he is given the heave ho in 2026, given his plummeting popularity rating that seems a possibility. Yesh Atid are currently topping opinion polls and they have a stated aim of reentering negotiations with the Palestinians and halting further illegal settlements. It would be a step forward albeit they would require a coalition to govern.

[AgentDaleCooper]

The war ceased to be about hostages a long time ago. It's not widely reported because it doesn't suit the narrative of either 'side' but there are regular anti war and ant Netanyahu protests in Israel. These are largely orchestrated by the families of the remaining hostages who say that Netanyahu hasn't done enough to get them home and has used their loved ones as a front for a political and territorial war.

You only have to look at the ongoing encroachments into the West Bank. There has also been a ramping up of demolition orders in Palestinian neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem. The local authorities will tell you this is because the homes don't have planning permission but 95-99% of applications for planning consent from Arabs are refused; in a shock to almost no one in neighbouring areas with largely Jewish populations the success rate for planning applications is infinitely higher.

It's not really a secret. The pictures are there of Netanyahu pictured with his maps showing a plan of a 'new middle east' that has Israel and Israel alone on the map, Gaza and the West Bank are consigned to history. The aim of the destruction of Israel by Hamas and Iran is well reported and well understood; the destruction of the other side is as much an aim of the current Israeli leadership but it's less openly acknowledged despite the evidence of our eyes. I'd love to be wrong but I think any hope that this latest killing is a watershed moment is misplaced. There just isn't an Arafat or Rabin on either side in enough of a position of power to get round the table to try to get a 2 state solution back on the table (and the latter found out in no uncertain terms how unpalatable that is to some on his side). There also isn't a western leader in the vein of Clinton with the skill or gravitas to broker such talks.

The war ends when Netanyahu wants it to end or when he is given the heave ho in 2026, given his plummeting popularity rating that seems a possibility. Yesh Atid are currently topping opinion polls and they have a stated aim of reentering negotiations with the Palestinians and halting further illegal settlements. It would be a step forward albeit they would require a coalition to govern.
It's also worth noting that 'halting illegal settlements' is sort of equivelent to Putin trying to arrange a ceasefire based on current front lines.

[DaveF]

Another day, another mass killing by Israel on a refugee camp.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xez14e7lro

[MKHIBEE]

i can't see it someone else will just pick up the baton, and certainly not until all the Hostages are returned i would think

The hostage situation will have no bearing on what happens. Netanyahu will continue to wipe out the Palestinians until such time as America tell him to stop. There are already plans to make the north of Gaza into a settlement for the Jews.

[Hibs4185]

Israel striking Iran just now.

[Keith_M]

Should the title of this thread be changed to War In The Middle-East?

[stokesmessiah]

Anyone else noticing the language being used by Iran?

[Hibrandenburg]

Anyone else noticing the language being used by Iran?

Farsi?

[Ozyhibby]

Farsi?

[emoji23]


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[DaveF]

I'm not condoning violence but a 'pogrom'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y33ee1klo

Those in the Israeli govt don't half like to take the piss.

[Bishop Hibee]

Ajax are a club who have fans sympathetic to Israel, a bit like Spurs. It’s quite clear some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans engaged in anti Palestinian and anti Arab chanting, looked for fights on the transport network and pulled down at least one Palestinian flag before some of their number were attacked.

It’s cynical by the Israeli government and its sympathisers to use the word ‘pogrom’ The only ethnic cleansing going on is in Gaza.

[Stairway 2 7]

Ajax are a club who have fans sympathetic to Israel, a bit like Spurs. It’s quite clear some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans engaged in anti Palestinian and anti Arab chanting, looked for fights on the transport network and pulled down at least one Palestinian flag before some of their number were attacked.

It’s cynical by the Israeli government and its sympathisers to use the word ‘pogrom’ The only ethnic cleansing going on is in Gaza.

Everything isn't black and white and simple. Gaza is a genocide that's simple and obvious but that's separate from lots of the incidents yesterday. The only pogrom is in gaza.

In saying that the group that pulled down the flag you can understand getting beaten. I've also seen a half dozen of videos of the Moroccan guys surrounding single people saying what country are you from then leathering them when they didn't answer. One video of them all surrounding a guy and only releasing him when he showed his passport and it was Ukrainian. I saw a video of an old guy with a macabi strip getting punched from behind when walking in the centre during the day on his own and a video of a young girl getting pushed over.

It's utterly vile antisemitism utterly horrendous pack racism on European streets. All they fans aren't the Israeli government, most just wanted to watch football. Downplaying it is very suspect

[Keith_M]

I've seen videos of the events in Amsterdam and the guys attacking the Tel-Aviv fans were not exactly the ethnic group that you'd first think of when somebody mentions 'Nazis'.

I think Netanyahu, and those of his ilk, will be milking this for all it's worth, as any reference to WWII is always a fantastic deflection from their own actions.


Attacking football fans purely because of their nationality is ridiculous, though, regardless of who the perpetrators were.

[Ozyhibby]

I've seen videos of the events in Amsterdam and the guys attacking the Tel-Aviv fans were not exactly the ethnic group that you'd first think of when somebody mentions 'Nazis'.

I think Netanyahu, and those of his ilk, will be milking this for all it's worth, as any reference to WWII is always a fantastic deflection from their own actions.


Attacking football fans purely because of their nationality is ridiculous, though, regardless of who the perpetrators were.

Sending rescue planes was a personal favourite. Like they won’t have planes at schiphol to get them home.[emoji849][emoji23]


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[Keith_M]

Sending rescue planes was a personal favourite. Like they won’t have planes at schiphol to get them home.[emoji849][emoji23]


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Seriously? I totally missed that.

Jeezo, he really is at it. :faf:

[Pretty Boy]

Owen Jones, who I am usually not a great fan of, has a good thread on Twitter about the gaslighting going on regarding events in Amsterdam:

https://x.com/owenjonesjourno/status/1854949769963008214?t=YKyVuqXbTweePGCP6et5KQ&s=19

[Stairway 2 7]

I've seen videos of the events in Amsterdam and the guys attacking the Tel-Aviv fans were not exactly the ethnic group that you'd first think of when somebody mentions 'Nazis'.

I think Netanyahu, and those of his ilk, will be milking this for all it's worth, as any reference to WWII is always a fantastic deflection from their own actions.


Attacking football fans purely because of their nationality is ridiculous, though, regardless of who the perpetrators were.

I think people use the term Nazis to define bigots, I don't think they literally mean they are goose stepping in a Hugo Boss uniform, they were young Moroccan bigots. Loads of the violence I would dismiss as football violence but loads was racism. Randoms getting smashed unless they show their passport hasn't been seen in Amsterdam since 1945. The fact that people think it's fine or funny because Isreali government is creating genocide is unfair. Imagine our kids or friends got leathered abroad because the UK caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq

I hate the Israeli government I don't hate Jews or Israelis unlike many

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/yousaama/status/1854833926369317180?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/yousaama/status/1854833926369317180?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Luckily this lad had a Ukrainian passport or he would have been battered zero to do with football. A yank that has never been to an away game for the football isn't worth listening too. It's as bad as all the people from England this week trying to talk about the geography of the cowgate because the poor guy died on Saturday

[Ozyhibby]

Hamas leaders being expelled from Qatar.[emoji106]


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[Keith_M]

For some balance on the events in Amsterdam, The Guardian have an article entitled 'What we know'

------------------------------------

Violence in Amsterdam around a Europa League football match (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/08/israel-sends-rescue-planes-football-fans-reportedly-attacked-amsterdam) between the local team Ajax and Israel’s Maccabi Tel Aviv sparked horror around the world, against a backdrop of soaring antisemitic and Islamophobic abuse and attacks across Europe fuelled by the Middle East conflict.
The Amsterdam mayor, Femke Halsema, has said she had not been told the match was high-risk, although earlier last week the Turkish club Beşiktaş moved their match against Maccabi to a neutral country for fear of “provocative actions”.


Here is what we know so far about how events unfolded – and politicians reacted.
What happened on Wednesday night?

The first incidents were reported on Wednesday evening, the day before the match. Police say Maccabi fans tore a Palestinian flag down from the facade of a building and burned it, shouted “**** you, Palestine”, and vandalised a taxi (https://www.rtl.nl/nieuws/binnenland/artikel/5479291/hooligans-van-maccabi-tel-aviv-amsterdam-slaags-met).

After a radio callout a number of taxi drivers converged on a casino on the nearby Max Euweplein, where about 400 Israeli supporters had gathered. Police dispersed the taxi drivers and escorted supporters out of the casino.

Verified social media videos show Maccabi fans setting off flares and fireworks, chanting in Hebrew “olé, olé, let the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] win, we will **** the Arabs”, and declaring that there were “no children” left in Gaza.

Ams
terdam has a large Muslim community and has allowed more than 2,500 protests against the war in Gaza so far this year.
What happened the next day?

There were further clashes on Thursday afternoon on the central Dam Square, where a large crowd of Maccabi supporters had gathered. Police said pro-Palestine demonstrators tried to reach the square. Two arrests were made.

Maccabi supporters were filmed chanting anti-Arab slogans on their way to the Johan Cruyff Arena. Police escorted the 2,600 fans to the game and dispersed protesters defying a ban on a pro-Palestinian demonstration outside the stadium.

After the match, which Ajax (https://www.theguardian.com/football/ajax) won 5-0, there were numerous attacks, described by Halsema as “hit and run”, on Maccabi supporters across the city centre. Footage showed masked youths on scooters and ebikes seeking out, chasing down and beating victims – mostly in Maccabi colours – until about 4am.


Witness accounts and screenshots of mobile phone message exchanges suggest some were targeted as Jews, being asked if they were Jewish or to show their passports. False reports circulated that Maccabi supporters had gone missing or been taken hostage. Five people were hospitalised and 20 to 30 slightly injured.
Footage has also emerged (https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/11/eyewitnesses-film-maccabi-fans-causing-trouble-in-amsterdam/) of Maccabi supporters close to Amsterdam central railway station setting off fireworks, chanting anti-Palestine slogans and taking iron scaffolding tubes and wooden planks from a building site to use as weapons. Other footage shows Maccabi fans (https://www.parool.nl/amsterdam/beelden-harde-kern-maccabi-schuren-ze-trapten-tegen-onze-deur-en-probeerden-ons-huis-binnen-te-komen~bd3cb6e2) running through the streets swinging belts.

[Keith_M]

Regarding the above, I've left out the Guardian's 'summation' of the meaning of those events, as it seems to be at odds with I posted above... along the lines of pogroms, Kristallnacht, etc... but feel free to read it all for yourself.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans

[Andy Bee]

The new International Development Committee for this Parliament puts questions to Prof Nizam Mamode, Prof Mamode is a UK surgeon who volunteered his medical skills to help in Gaza. He gives a horrific account of his experiences working in a Gazan hospital. I wonder if this will be reported on?

https://www.youtube.com/live/-E2Jn-4NmKQ

[Pretty Boy]

Serious disorder between Israel and France fans tonight in Paris.

[Ozyhibby]

Peace deal between Isreal and Lebanon. Let’s hope it holds.[emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]


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[Moulin Yarns]

Peace deal between Isreal and Lebanon. Let’s hope it holds.[emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]


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60 day ceasefire not a peace deal, just time to regroup.

[Bristolhibby]

I'm not really getting the hostages thing anymore. It's not giving Hamas any leverage as Gaza is totally destroyed, hundreds of thousands are dead or injured, with many more starving.

Hand them over. I presume the remaining ones are dead anyway.

All this does is give Israel an excuse to continue to kill more innocent civilians in the name of hostage retrieval.

Or just hand their bodies back. Like you say, zero leverage either way.

J

[Stairway 2 7]

60 day ceasefire not a peace deal, just time to regroup.

No you've read it wrong. Over the next 60 days hezbollah will move it's forces from the border and be replaced by Lebanese government forces, that's happening just now. Over the same 60 days Israel will remove all forces from Lebanon. Civilians will be allowed to start returning from next week. It's a permanent ceasefire.

Le Beck analysts I read last in October estimated it would be over by late December. The pager attack and air strikes took out basically the whole of hezbollahs command structure. The Lebanese army say they want the opportunity to retake control of the country but they need more weapons and funds they say.

Afp saying senior Hamas officials are saying they might do similar

Michael A. Horowitz
@michaelh992
A senior #Hamas official told AFP that the group is "ready" for a ceasefire in the #Gaza Strip.

The Hamas official described the cease-fire in Lebanon as "a victory and a huge achievement for the resistance," and said that "Hamas is ready for a cease-fire agreement" as well as a hostage-release deal

[Moulin Yarns]

No you've read it wrong. Over the next 60 days hezbollah will move it's forces from the border and be replaced by Lebanese government forces, that's happening just now. Over the same 60 days Israel will remove all forces from Lebanon. Civilians will be allowed to start returning from next week. It's a permanent ceasefire.

Le Beck analysts I read last in October estimated it would be over by late December. The pager attack and air strikes took out basically the whole of hezbollahs command structure. The Lebanese army say they want the opportunity to retake control of the country but they need more weapons and funds they say.

Afp saying senior Hamas officials are saying they might do similar

Michael A. Horowitz
@michaelh992
A senior #Hamas official told AFP that the group is "ready" for a ceasefire in the #Gaza Strip.

The Hamas official described the cease-fire in Lebanon as "a victory and a huge achievement for the resistance," and said that "Hamas is ready for a cease-fire agreement" as well as a hostage-release deal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ygn5579gvo

Read it and weap!!!

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ygn5579gvo

Read it and weap!!!

Mate it's OK to make a mistake I do it all the time, it's not a competition. You said its a 60 day ceasefire, it's not. Families have started moving into their homes again just now. The Lebanese army has also started moving tanks into the area.

An opinion piece saying the ceasefire won't last doesn't change that, I've seen others that say hezbollahs whole command structure is gone and they won't regroup for a few years.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6273139ed4o

"Peace deal" lasted well!!!

A few days of "ceasefire" in name only.

[Hibrandenburg]

Are the Israeli population seeing the same pictures we get to see? If so, then the sight of malnourished refugees and dead children must surely be ringing some bells.

[Bristolhibby]

Are the Israeli population seeing the same pictures we get to see? If so, then the sight of malnourished refugees and dead children must surely be ringing some bells.

There’s weekly protests in Tel Aviv. Until Netanyahu and his vomit inducing right wing nutters that prop him up are gone then there’s nowt that can be done.

He needs the war to galvanise his party and the nutters.

Not sure when the election is but surely his time is up. But like Sunak but less killing. Dead man walking. (And indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity and Genocide).

J

[Viva_Palmeiras]

There’s weekly protests in Tel Aviv. Until Netanyahu and his vomit inducing right wing nutters that prop him up are gone then there’s nowt that can be done.

He needs the war to galvanise his party and the nutters.

Not sure when the election is but surely his time is up. But like Sunak but less killing. Dead man walking. (And indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity and Genocide).

J

quite remarkable that the world throw up these aberrations that turn things over and we never seem to learn. The forlorn wish of the generation that suffered immensely in “the Great War” -that it be “the war to end all wars”. Such a suffering and waste. And why?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Syria: New government's school curriculum changes spark concern - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1ln12056ppo)


they've been saying the right things until this

The Education Minister, Nazir al-Qadri, downplayed the move, saying the curriculum is essentially unchanged


i disagree

The phrase "Defending the nation" has been replaced by "Defending Allah", among other changes.

Defending the nation has bugger all to do with Assad so why change it in the first place :rolleyes:, i won't be the only one waiting on things to turn sour and all the early promises dropped, here's hoping all us doubters will be wrong

[Stairway 2 7]

Qatar, Palestinian and Israeli sources are all saying a deal is close to being concluded today for a ceasefire and hostage swap. Hopefully gets concluded and Netanyahu falls soon post this

[DaveF]

Qatar, Palestinian and Israeli sources are all saying a deal is close to being concluded today for a ceasefire and hostage swap. Hopefully gets concluded and Netanyahu falls soon post this

I do hope so but I doubt it will stop the Israeli army from doing what they do best and killing a few hundred more people just for the bantz.

Netanyahu's place as a genocidal maniac is assured. He should be on trial.

[Bristolhibby]

I do hope so but I doubt it will stop the Israeli army from doing what they do best and killing a few hundred more people just for the bantz.

Netanyahu's place as a genocidal maniac is assured. He should be on trial.

If he ever sets foot in Europe he will be. There’s an arrest warrant out on him.

J

[Stairway 2 7]

Hamas announce a deal has been agreed and Multiple sources saying Israel is saying the same with an announcement from Netanyahu and Biden imminent

[jamie_1875]

Did the Trump effect play a part? He is certainly taking credit claiming "we did a deal" he did say a few days ago if he was President and the war was still ongoing there would "big problems like nobody had seen before" if no deal was struck.

Can imagine Benjamin Netanyahu was probably thinking no way I want to deal with Trump so let's do a deal!

[Ozyhibby]

Did the Trump effect play a part? He is certainly taking credit claiming "we did a deal" he did say a few days ago if he was President and the war was still ongoing there would "big problems like nobody had seen before" if no deal was struck.

Can imagine Benjamin Netanyahu was probably thinking no way I want to deal with Trump so let's do a deal!

He can say what he likes but the deal is being done under a Biden presidency.


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[Berwickhibby]

He can say what he likes but the deal is being done under a Biden presidency.


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Who cares who claims the credit…as long as the killing stops which imho is paramount

[Keith_M]

Who cares who claims the credit…as long as the killing stops which imho is paramount


:agree:

I hope to se the hostages that have been held for so long, and having gone through an incredible trauma, finally released.... and for the citizens of Gaza finally freed from continued bombing, starvation and turmoil.

[Bristolhibby]

Did the Trump effect play a part? He is certainly taking credit claiming "we did a deal" he did say a few days ago if he was President and the war was still ongoing there would "big problems like nobody had seen before" if no deal was struck.

Can imagine Benjamin Netanyahu was probably thinking no way I want to deal with Trump so let's do a deal!

This was the point the news was making. The deal was the same one that’s been on the table since May and agreed by Hamas. Biden couldn’t bring Netanyahu to heel. Trump it seems can.

I want to know what Trump has promised Netenhau in return to placate his right wing nutters before I heap praise on Trump.

Also Trump has to act as guarantor of the deal and keep Israel in line.

J

[DaveF]

Just the 71 killed post announcement. I suspect there will be hundreds more who die before any ceasefire takes effect.

[Hibs4185]

Deal could be stalled according to the news this morning. Israel saying Hamas has backtracked on a couple of points.

Although in an interview, a diplomat was saying these last minute tactics are quite common to try and gain some points here and there.

Hopefully doesn’t derail the whole thing

[tamig]

Deal could be stalled according to the news this morning. Israel saying Hamas has backtracked on a couple of points.

Although in an interview, a diplomat was saying these last minute tactics are quite common to try and gain some points here and there.

Hopefully doesn’t derail the whole thing
Seemingly its a dispute on the names of prisoners held by the Israelis that Hamas want released. Can’t see the deal failing though.

[MKHIBEE]

The news that the ceasefire is scheduled to start on Sunday means that the Israelis will still be killing Palestinians next week and blaming Hamas, claiming they broke the ceasefire

[DaveF]

First of the hostages released. Hopefully this holds.

[DaveF]

Israel now stepping up actions in the West Bank, and with crackpots in the US Govt openly say Yes to Israel having 'biblical rights' to annexing it, what's to stop them.

[Bristolhibby]

Israel now stepping up actions in the West Bank, and with crackpots in the US Govt openly say Yes to Israel having 'biblical rights' to annexing it, what's to stop them.

That’s Gaza ****ed, Lebanon degraded, Syria neutralised, time to move back to the West Bank. Trump will be giving a big thumbs up to Netanyahu to craic on.

J

[Bishop Hibee]

Four ‘hostages’ being released by Hamas. Am I missing something but surely they are Prisoners of War as they are in the Israeli army. Good to see though. The ratio appears to be around one Israeli to around seventy Palestinians.

[Keith_M]

Four ‘hostages’ being released by Hamas. Am I missing something but surely they are Prisoners of War as they are in the Israeli army. Good to see though. The ratio appears to be around one Israeli to around seventy Palestinians.


They were part of the group kidnapped during the October 7th attack. There was no 'war' at the time.

[Colr]

Four ‘hostages’ being released by Hamas. Am I missing something but surely they are Prisoners of War as they are in the Israeli army. Good to see though. The ratio appears to be around one Israeli to around seventy Palestinians.

It doesn’t feel like this is the end point the Isrealis were looking for. I think this is a pause and reset not a conclusion.

[Keith_M]

Apparently Michael Gove thinks the IDF should be give The Nobel Peace Prize.


https://www.thejc.com/opinion/the-idf-should-be-nominated-for-the-nobel-peace-prize-xmppkld8

[DaveF]

Apparently Michael Gove thinks the IDF should be give The Nobel Peace Prize.


https://www.thejc.com/opinion/the-idf-should-be-nominated-for-the-nobel-peace-prize-xmppkld8

No mention of the (minimum) 50,000 dead, many, many thousands injured, the total destruction of homes and infrastructure, murder of aid workers and a litany of other war crimes they have committed.

Yeah, I can see why that may be provocative, Mikey boy.

I can only assume he's off his head on something.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/474825724_3348041825330514_2691997004626555166_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=LtF0Zu4c7eoQ7kNvgGQdXZH&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AXvhF94jTNQeFCZhY9FlcCa&oh=00_AYA_xRjXsjvZsJInPxdaP4vEUL7mmnyr4AFXJlYmlAvl dg&oe=67A0ACC9

[Keith_M]

Should the thread title now be changed to 'The Israeli Terrorist Invasion of Palestine'?

[Bostonhibby]

Apparently Michael Gove thinks the IDF should be give The Nobel Peace Prize.


https://www.thejc.com/opinion/the-idf-should-be-nominated-for-the-nobel-peace-prize-xmppkld8Snake, must be missing being in the spotlight and very likely some form of hallucinogenic is involved here.

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[Moulin Yarns]

https://braveneweurope.com/declaration-of-the-hague-group-of-nations-concerning-economic-and-diplomatic-sanctions-against-israel

All power to them.

[MKHIBEE]

https://braveneweurope.com/declaration-of-the-hague-group-of-nations-concerning-economic-and-diplomatic-sanctions-against-israel

All power to them.
Some excellent articles on this website, well worth a visit

[DaveF]

Meanwhile, it looks like the ceasefire is about to collapse. Trump,saying Israel should let 'all hell break loose' if the hostages are not released.

I assume he hasn't seen the current state of Gaza.

I don't know what the aim of Hamas is here by suspending the release but an emboldened Israel is just going to kill many thousands more as a result.

[Ozyhibby]

Meanwhile, it looks like the ceasefire is about to collapse. Trump,saying Israel should let 'all hell break loose' if the hostages are not released.

I assume he hasn't seen the current state of Gaza.

I don't know what the aim of Hamas is here by suspending the release but an emboldened Israel is just going to kill many thousands more as a result.

To be fair, when the other lot are bragging about you being ethnically cleansed soon then might be rethinking your options?[emoji2369]


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[cabbageandribs1875]

Israel cuts electricity to Gaza

very little food and now no electricity


over 61k murdered
over 14k missing


just shameful

[DaveF]

Israel cuts electricity to Gaza

very little food and now no electricity


over 61k murdered
over 14k missing


just shameful

It's despicable and not a word from Europe (I can only assume the US agrees) as Israel continues it's genocidal policies against Palestinians.

[JimBHibees]

It's despicable and not a word from Europe (I can only assume the US agrees) as Israel continues it's genocidal policies against Palestinians.

Yes completely shameful from Europe where has our ethical (no laughing at the back) foreign policy gone

[Ozyhibby]

Yes completely shameful from Europe where has our ethical (no laughing at the back) foreign policy gone

I would expect as Europe decouples from the US that slowly but surely their govts will move more in line with their populations with regard to the Middle East and Palestine.
The threat from Russia is what concerns everyone more just now though. Correctly IMO.


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[Hibrandenburg]

I would expect as Europe decouples from the US that slowly but surely their govts will move more in line with their populations with regard to the Middle East and Palestine.
The threat from Russia is what concerns everyone more just now though. Correctly IMO.

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I'm not sure that Germany would withdraw support for Israel under any circumstances, barring an AfD government.

[Keith_M]

I'm not sure that Germany would withdraw support for Israel under any circumstances, barring an AfD government.



Was just about to post something similar.

I watch some fantastic TV shows in Germany that highlight and criticize the worst politicians, including the AFD, Trump, Putin, etc but never criticise Israel.... or even mention the atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

[Hibrandenburg]

Was just about to post something similar.

I watch some fantastic TV shows in Germany that highlight and criticize the worst politicians, including the AFD, Trump, Putin, etc but never criticise Israel.... or even mention the atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

I've seen plenty of criticism of Israel in the media and even from some politicians, but hell will freeze over before a German government would side with their enemies. They do however send an enormous amount of non military aid to the Palestinians. It's all a bit schizophrenic.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czje23jd779t


Israel bombing Gaza again and blame Hamas

[MKHIBEE]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czje23jd779t


Israel bombing Gaza again and blame Hamas
No surprise there, I fully expected this to happen. The genocide continues, the denial of food, water and medical aid to civilians is a war crime and supported by our Prime Minister. Shame doesn’t begin to cover it.

[DaveF]

In a shock to no one Israel admits to killing 15 aid workers and that the original account given by soldiers was a pile of lies.

I'm sure the soldiers concerned will be given medals for this particular crime.

[JimBHibees]

No surprise there, I fully expected this to happen. The genocide continues, the denial of food, water and medical aid to civilians is a war crime and supported by our Prime Minister. Shame doesn’t begin to cover it.

The Western leadership has been sorely lacking and asleep at the wheel

[Keith_M]

I see the Israelis are now creating a 1km 'buffer zone' around the border of Gaza (on the Gaza side, obviously).

They're demolishing everything, and have free reign to kill everybody within this area, Red Crescent and UN aid workers included


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/07/israel-military-gaza-perimeter-land-testimony-report


Starmer, Macron, Scholz (and Merz), et-al... where is the criticism of these heinous events?

:confused:

[tamig]

I see the Israelis are now creating a 1km 'buffer zone' around the border of Gaza (on the Gaza side, obviously).

They're demolishing everything, and have free reign to kill everybody within this area, Red Crescent and UN aid workers included


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/07/israel-military-gaza-perimeter-land-testimony-report


Starmer, Macron, Scholz (and Merz), et-al... where is the criticism of these heinous events?

:confused:

Was just about to post this link. Good on the military personnel for speaking out and telling as it is. Absolutely brutal stuff.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250408/eae8c25d4201f0f27b9cfd777073f833.png


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[MKHIBEE]

I see the Israelis are now creating a 1km 'buffer zone' around the border of Gaza (on the Gaza side, obviously).

They're demolishing everything, and have free reign to kill everybody within this area, Red Crescent and UN aid workers included


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/07/israel-military-gaza-perimeter-land-testimony-report


Starmer, Macron, Scholz (and Merz), et-al... where is the criticism of these heinous events?

:confused:
Starmer’s too busy shafting the poor, sick, disabled and elderly in this country. Not that he would criticise them anyway.

[Ozyhibby]

Starmer’s too busy shafting the poor, sick, disabled and elderly in this country. Not that he would criticise them anyway.

Didn’t he advocate cutting the water and power to Gaza?


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[tamig]

Didn’t he advocate cutting the water and power to Gaza?


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When?

[Andy Bee]

When?https://x.com/MiddleEastMnt/status/1742919127290003852

[tamig]

https://x.com/MiddleEastMnt/status/1742919127290003852

When was this? Do we know that’s still his stance now?

* edit I see its from Jan 24. A lot has changed in Gaza since then. Not that I’m defending that position even in the early days of the invasion.

[MKHIBEE]

Didn’t he advocate cutting the water and power to Gaza?


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He commented that Israel had a legal right to deprive the Gazans of food, water and power

[cabbageandribs1875]

Netanyahu backs dismissal of Israeli reservists calling for end to Gaza war | Israel-Palestine conflict News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/4/10/netanyahu-slams-reservists-urging-end-to-gaza-war-as-army-warns-dismissal?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Cont ent&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawJl2iRleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHtx9iimU9eTSy JU7AWV-kvBvhoBZFXxgWfektrLIT_ASK6YB7MkuXQ1THBhE_aem_WqW-K0v6cXoFf4vkCyeexw)

[DaveF]

Israel continues to block aid into Gaza, effectively starving civilians to death.

Why is there no international outcry?

What is Starmer doing about this?

[Keith_M]

The lack of any noticeable outrage over, or condemnation of, Israel's actions from our political 'leaders' is now depressing the hell out of me.

It's bad enough the nutjob far right leaders in the US are now actively banning protests against these atrocities, but the supposedly more open-minded, enlightened European leaders are nowhere to be seen.

Come on Starmer, et-al, bloody say something and stop kowtowing to the pro-Israel lobby!!!

[JimBHibees]

The lack of any noticeable outrage over, or condemnation of, Israel's actions from our political 'leaders' is now depressing the hell out of me.

It's bad enough the nutjob far right leaders in the US are now actively banning protests against these atrocities, but the supposedly more open-minded, enlightened European leaders are nowhere to be seen.

Come on Starmer, et-al, bloody say something and stop kowtowing to the pro-Israel lobby!!!

Yep it is simply genocide with the west having no moral leadership and actively supporting it. Depressing as hell where we are today

[MKHIBEE]

Israel continues to block aid into Gaza, effectively starving civilians to death.

Why is there no international outcry?

What is Starmer doing about this?
All legal and above board, according to the Zionist Starmer. Suggesting otherwise will get you labelled as an “antisemite”.
This is the state of the party that people voted in to power. None of what the Labour Party does now should come as a great surprise to anyone. The signs were there long before the election of the direction they were heading.

[Hibrandenburg]

Yep it is simply genocide with the west having no moral leadership and actively supporting it. Depressing as hell where we are today

I was at a ceremony marking the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp yesterday. I've been there before but a reminder at this time of the industrial scale of the extermination of groups of people deemed to be vermin, only makes it more baffling that a state built in the aftermath of such events can do what it is doing.

[Stairway 2 7]

I was at a ceremony marking the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp yesterday. I've been there before but a reminder at this time of the industrial scale of the extermination of groups of people deemed to be vermin, only makes it more baffling that a state built in the aftermath of such events can do what it is doing.

My Aunt was stationed close to there so have been a few times. Weirdly I was more moved than Auswitz which is more intact, horrendous

[Keith_M]

I was at a ceremony marking the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp yesterday. I've been there before but a reminder at this time of the industrial scale of the extermination of groups of people deemed to be vermin, only makes it more baffling that a state built in the aftermath of such events can do what it is doing.


:agree:

[DaveF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx27z0r8n5do

Another probable violation of international law by Israel but those government terrorists won't give a stuff.

Neither will our Govt.

[Jamesie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvqr00278no

Pretty surprising that this remains possible, given how much US firepower has been launched into Yemen over the past few weeks.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvqr00278no

Pretty surprising that this remains possible, given how much US firepower has been launched into Yemen over the past few weeks.

They still manage to fire rockets from Gaza.
The only two way to get rid of the problem is peace or genocide.


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[Jamesie]

They still manage to fire rockets from Gaza.
The only two way to get rid of the problem is peace or genocide.


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Bit easier to fire a rocket into Israel from Gaza than a missile from 2,500km away, though.

[Ozyhibby]

Bit easier to fire a rocket into Israel from Gaza than a missile from 2,500km away, though.

Iranians provide both. Just a different rocket.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250505/fa228ada05e4ad87fa0c2ea977a86131.jpg
Seems like we have went to war with Yemen now. I can’t remember much debate in parliament about this?


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[DaveF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy04km1zk0o

Israel approves plans to occupy northern Gaza and 'move' the civilian population south. A shameless land grab which is, of course, totally ignored (or perhaps backed) by our Government.

[Keith_M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy04km1zk0o

Israel approves plans to occupy northern Gaza and 'move' the civilian population south. A shameless land grab which is, of course, totally ignored (or perhaps backed) by our Government.


Wir brauchen Lebensraum (https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/lebensraum)

[Hibrandenburg]

Wir brauchen Lebensraum (https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/lebensraum)

If you haven't already, then watch Louis Theroux's "The Settlers" on BBC iPlayer. They're as close to pure evil as you can get.

[DaveF]

Starmer expresses 'deep concern' so that will send shockwaves down Tel Aviv way, right enough.

[Bostonhibby]

If you haven't already, then watch Louis Theroux's "The Settlers" on BBC iPlayer. They're as close to pure evil as you can get.Indeed, horrific stuff, behind many atrocities lies religion, or people who claim the right to do it in the name of their particular religion or cause.

The current Israeli leadership is practicing genocide on the "battlefield" and ethnic cleansing of a region simultaneously.

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[Ozyhibby]

Starmer expresses 'deep concern' so that will send shockwaves down Tel Aviv way, right enough.

The man who wanted to cut of their water and stop food getting in?
No doubt he’ll make sure we arm them properly though.


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[MKHIBEE]

The man who wanted to cut of their water and stop food getting in?
No doubt he’ll make sure we arm them properly though.


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The very same. Our Prime Minister, the leader of a party once thought to be on the side of the oppressed. Beyond shameful

[Keith_M]

If you haven't already, then watch Louis Theroux's "The Settlers" on BBC iPlayer. They're as close to pure evil as you can get.


Cheers, I'll have a look.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250514/18af2d297befbe57a94ddf25a8c8077f.jpg
Starmer getting his wish.


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[DaveF]

The sickening Israeli genocide continues, bombing a hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqglvlwzx5o

[Scorrie]

The sickening Israeli genocide continues, bombing a hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqglvlwzx5o

I’m finding it more and more difficult to read and watch the news about this. It is ethnic cleansing. We had it in Bosnia and nobody did anything. Then Rwanda and now Palestine. It is totally sickening what is going on

[Ozyhibby]

I’m finding it more and more difficult to read and watch the news about this. It is ethnic cleansing. We had it in Bosnia and nobody did anything. Then Rwanda and now Palestine. It is totally sickening what is going on

It’s supported by Starmer and the Labour Party,


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[cabbageandribs1875]

THE Co-op could stop selling Israeli products as early as this summer after board members voted in favour of a boycott.

A motion proposed at the Co-op AGM (annual general meeting) calling for a cease to all trading with Israel was backed by around 75% of members

The motion called on the board to demonstrate “moral courage and leadership” by removing Israeli goods from store shelves.

Citing the Co-op’s previous decision to “boycott Russian products” following the invasion of Ukraine in 2022, the motion read: “We urge the board to show moral courage and leadership, apply the same ethical principles and values it did to Russia, and take all Israeli products off the shelves.”

The board said it will consider the thoughts of members expressed by the non-binding vote.

[speedy_gonzales]

THE Co-op could stop selling Israeli products as early as this summer after board members voted in favour of a boycott.

A motion proposed at the Co-op AGM (annual general meeting) calling for a cease to all trading with Israel was backed by around 75% of members

The motion called on the board to demonstrate “moral courage and leadership” by removing Israeli goods from store shelves.

Citing the Co-op’s previous decision to “boycott Russian products” following the invasion of Ukraine in 2022, the motion read: “We urge the board to show moral courage and leadership, apply the same ethical principles and values it did to Russia, and take all Israeli products off the shelves.”

The board said it will consider the thoughts of members expressed by the non-binding vote.

A brave move, no doubt there will be accusations of the Co-op board being anti-Semitic as that seems to be the response if anyone is critical of the Israeli state.
I can remember when a lot of consumers and retailers boycotted South African products back in their apartheid days. Unsure of what difference it really makes on the larger political stage but if the growers and farmers at the bottom of the food chain start to feel the pinch it might make those higher up take note.

[Ozyhibby]

THE Co-op could stop selling Israeli products as early as this summer after board members voted in favour of a boycott.

A motion proposed at the Co-op AGM (annual general meeting) calling for a cease to all trading with Israel was backed by around 75% of members

The motion called on the board to demonstrate “moral courage and leadership” by removing Israeli goods from store shelves.

Citing the Co-op’s previous decision to “boycott Russian products” following the invasion of Ukraine in 2022, the motion read: “We urge the board to show moral courage and leadership, apply the same ethical principles and values it did to Russia, and take all Israeli products off the shelves.”

The board said it will consider the thoughts of members expressed by the non-binding vote.


Happy to move my shopping to them if they go through with it.


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[Keith_M]

A brave move, no doubt there will be accusations of the Co-op board being anti-Semitic as that seems to be the response if anyone is critical of the Israeli state.
I can remember when a lot of consumers and retailers boycotted South African products back in their apartheid days. Unsure of what difference it really makes on the larger political stage but if the growers and farmers at the bottom of the food chain start to feel the pinch it might make those higher up take note.


'This will make Jewish Shoppers feel uncomfortable' will be one of the (nonsense) responses.

[CropleyWasGod]

A brave move, no doubt there will be accusations of the Co-op board being anti-Semitic as that seems to be the response if anyone is critical of the Israeli state.
I can remember when a lot of consumers and retailers boycotted South African products back in their apartheid days. Unsure of what difference it really makes on the larger political stage but if the growers and farmers at the bottom of the food chain start to feel the pinch it might make those higher up take note.

I was never sure of the impact of the SA boycott. I tended to think that the real losers were the farmers themselves, the very people that the SA Government weren't interested in listening to.

A similar attitude probably prevails in the Israeli government ("we know better")

[Moulin Yarns]

'This will make Jewish Shoppers feel uncomfortable' will be one of the (nonsense) responses.

What does Israel supply in the way of food

[CropleyWasGod]

What does Israel supply in the way of food

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/imports/israel/vegetable-fruit-nut-food-preparations

[Billy Whizz]

Happy to move my shopping to them if they go through with it.


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I wouldn’t hurry as their shelves are empty after their cyber attack
Been in a few Scotmid’s last week or so, and the stock situation is worse than M&S

[Moulin Yarns]

I wouldn’t hurry as their shelves are empty after their cyber attack
Been in a few Scotmid’s last week or so, and the stock situation is worse than M&S

As a resident of a small town that only has a coop it's been bad but getting better. Fruit and veg was almost full this morning, still gaps in the yoghurt, crisp and booze aisle. Even the staff don't know what is coming in.

[Billy Whizz]

As a resident of a small town that only has a coop it's been bad but getting better. Fruit and veg was almost full this morning, still gaps in the yoghurt, crisp and booze aisle. Even the staff don't know what is coming in.
Yes it is, sorry to mention stocks of food, when I read what’s going on in Gaza
Breaks your heart

[Pretty Boy]

One pitta bread and a single rationed cooked meal a day for civilians to prevent accusations of 'war crimes' says the Israeli foreign minister.

They are total psychopaths.

[DaveF]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-from-the-leaders-of-the-united-kingdom-france-and-canada-on-the-situation-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank#:~:text=We%20strongly%20oppose%20the%20expans ion,into%20Gaza%20is%20wholly%20inadequate.

[DaveF]

It's something but I suspect it will end up being nothing more than hot air. As long as the US backs this genocide (and it will) then Israel's own version of Hitler, won't stop.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-from-the-leaders-of-the-united-kingdom-france-and-canada-on-the-situation-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank#:~:text=We%20strongly%20oppose%20the%20expans ion,into%20Gaza%20is%20wholly%20inadequate.

Disgraceful it’s taken this long. It’s only words though, no action?


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[MKHIBEE]

Disgraceful it’s taken this long. It’s only words though, no action?


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Very big on words and no action is Starmer. There is nothing he, or the Labour Party, could do that would make me ever consider voting for them again, having done so for almost 50 years up until 2023

[DaveF]

UK suspends trade talks with Israel and summons their ambassador.

I can only hope this is just the start of the actions otherwise it's absolutely worthless.

[The Tubs]

Golan’s remarks drew a furious response from Netanyahu, who accused the former general of “wild incitement” and “echoing the most despicable antisemitic blood libels against IDF soldiers and the State of Israel”.


If you need an example of how the word "antisemitic" has become meaningless, Netanyahu bouncing it at a former IDF general is surely the textbook case.

[DaveF]

And, according to Israel, the UK, France and Canada are on the wrong side of history for taking a stand (of sorts).

The wrong side of history, for mildly opposing a genocide? Get me off this planet.

[MKHIBEE]

I have just watched Starmer and Lammy on the ITV news. Spewing,what a pair of hypocrites. A joint statement being issued with other countries? Effing pointless.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I have just watched Starmer and Lammy on the ITV news. Spewing,what a pair of hypocrites. A joint statement being issued with other countries? Effing pointless.

Any actions taken other than those taken by the USA are pointless.

[MKHIBEE]

Any actions taken other than those taken by the USA are pointless.

At the very least we can stop selling arms/ arms components to Israel, freeze any assets any Israel’s have in the UK and a ban on goods imported from Israel. We could arrest individuals who come to the UK. And we can urge other countries to do the same.If we are not prepared to take some kind of practical action then just shut up, it has no effect.

[Moulin Yarns]

I had an American customer who came in a large group who I began to follow on social media. Now blocked because of their unmitigated support for the genocide in Palestine.

[Bristolhibby]

What does Israel supply in the way of food

Fantastic Hummus.

J

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250522/8baeb4ffc9b49b453b1c1fa25434e255.jpg

The Labour Party.


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[JimBHibees]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250522/8baeb4ffc9b49b453b1c1fa25434e255.jpg

The Labour Party.


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Ffs

[DaveF]

And it continues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0eq9lq7xr1o

Still this govt does nothing worthwhile.

[Keith_M]

And it continues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0eq9lq7xr1o

Still this govt does nothing worthwhile.


Don't worry, they'll be taking 'concrete action' very soon.

[DaveF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y2kd1nkleo

How is this being allowed to happen?

What the **** is our Govt doing?

[cabbageandribs1875]

dunno the in and outs etc etc but Malta has announced it will recognise Palestine as a sovereign state on June 20th

[MKHIBEE]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y2kd1nkleo

How is this being allowed to happen?

What the **** is our Govt doing?

Allowing arms to be sent to Israel and flying drone reconnaissance missions for Israel. Complicity at its best

[Ozyhibby]

Allowing arms to be sent to Israel and flying drone reconnaissance missions for Israel. Complicity at its best

Starmer is all in with Isreal. Remember he wants to cut of the water and electricity supply to Gaza. And like Blair before him he has no problem with bombing the Middle East.


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[DaveF]

"Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reiterated on Tuesday plans to relocate Gaza's entire population to a "sterile zone" in the south of the territory while Israeli troops continue fighting Hamas elsewhere. He also vowed to facilitate what he described as the "voluntary emigration" of much of Gaza's population to other countries - a plan many view as forcible expulsion"

This war criminal just carries on regardless and still all the UK Govt does is stand by looking on.

[superfurryhibby]

"Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reiterated on Tuesday plans to relocate Gaza's entire population to a "sterile zone" in the south of the territory while Israeli troops continue fighting Hamas elsewhere. He also vowed to facilitate what he described as the "voluntary emigration" of much of Gaza's population to other countries - a plan many view as forcible expulsion"

This war criminal just carries on regardless and still all the UK Govt does is stand by looking on.

Given the unduly powerful influence of Labour Friends of Israel and Starmer's deep personal connection to Judaism, no surprise that all we will get is British collusion.

Old link, but still relevant- https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2024/05/31/labour-friends-of-israel-list/

"17 of Keir Starmer’s 31 shadow cabinet members are listed as LFI parliamentary supporters on the deleted page. That includes Starmer himself, shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves who is a vice-chair and shadow foreign secretary David Lammy. Labour’s national campaign coordinator Pat McFadden is also listed as a vice-chair.

"Reeves told an LFI vigil after the 7 October Hamas attack:

I also know that many of you have concerns closer to home, about the antisemitism, the anti-Zionism and the anti-Israeli feeling that is allowed to flourish in some communities in Britain.

And so we stand alongside you here at home as well and will ensure that the police do everything within their powers to hold responsible anybody who behaves in that way here at home.

She was later labeled “unhinged” on social media as she lumped in critics of Israel with antisemitism and appeared to call for police action for political opinion".

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0k3d1y10pzo

All going to plan for Starmer and the Labour Party.


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[DaveF]

Israel kills hungry civilians at distribution points set up and managed by Israel.

Modern day Nazis.

[MKHIBEE]

Israel kills hungry civilians at distribution points set up and managed by Israel.

Modern day Nazis.

They have become those that they hate

[JimBHibees]

Israel kills hungry civilians at distribution points set up and managed by Israel.

Modern day Nazis.

Spot on and the rest of the world shuts their curtains

[Hibspur]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c989rl23zzno

Two more hostage bodies recovered. Hard to imagine more than a handful are still alive now.

[Dalianwanda]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c989rl23zzno

Two more hostage bodies recovered. Hard to imagine more than a handful are still alive now.

Its been said many times before but its mad how the Isrealies who were taken are called hostages yet that those that are taken by the Isrealies are called prisoners (and in much greater numbers)....Some going into camps others just vanishing never to be seen again...

[JimBHibees]

Its been said many times before but its mad how the Isrealies who were taken are called hostages yet that those that are taken by the Isrealies are called prisoners (and in much greater numbers)....Some going into camps others just vanishing never to be seen again...

Absolutely

[jamie_1875]

Its been said many times before but its mad how the Isrealies who were taken are called hostages yet that those that are taken by the Isrealies are called prisoners (and in much greater numbers)....Some going into camps others just vanishing never to be seen again...

I am not defending Israel but Hamas did take hostages in the real sense of the word, they took woman and children and even disabled children as hostages. One autistic girl they murdered as she was apparently too much hassle to look after. Has Israel done the same? I don't know the profile of the people Israel has taken but I suspect will be men with links to Hamas and terrorism, not a 70 and 72 years old married couple. As I say not defending Israel for their mass killing of Palestine people but offering an explanation for the different terminology used.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/4/17/a-nation-behind-bars-why-has-israel-imprisoned-10000-palestinians


https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-many-palestinians-detention-and-available-swap

The question is, what is the difference between an Israeli hostage and a Palestinian prisoner?

Absolutely nothing, the Palestinian prisoners have, in the main, had no trial and are detained for years in appalling conditions.

The Israeli settlements in the west bank are illegal land grabs with the ultimate aim of Palestinian eradication.

[Hibspur]

I am not defending Israel but Hamas did take hostages in the real sense of the word, they took woman and children and even disabled children as hostages. One autistic girl they murdered as she was apparently too much hassle to look after. Has Israel done the same? I don't know the profile of the people Israel has taken but I suspect will be men with links to Hamas and terrorism, not a 70 and 72 years old married couple. As I say not defending Israel for their mass killing of Palestine people but offering an explanation for the different terminology used.

I don't see that the terminology used by the media here can be perceived as favouring one side or another. In general, people taken prisoner are held in prisons or detention facilities. Hostages are not. For example, if there's a hijack they're usually held where the hijack takes place as collatoral for the hostage takers. Or as individuals they're taken somewhere hard to find.

In the case of the hostages taken by Hamas they're dispersed around Gaza, frequently underground judging by the testimonies of those released, and often in populated areas where civilian casualties will occur if rescue attempts are made.

I note, incidentally, that yesterday Israel recovered the body of one of the Thai farm workers who got taken on October 7th.

[He's here!]

I am not defending Israel but Hamas did take hostages in the real sense of the word, they took woman and children and even disabled children as hostages. One autistic girl they murdered as she was apparently too much hassle to look after. Has Israel done the same? I don't know the profile of the people Israel has taken but I suspect will be men with links to Hamas and terrorism, not a 70 and 72 years old married couple. As I say not defending Israel for their mass killing of Palestine people but offering an explanation for the different terminology used.

I read recently that Benjamin Netanyahu's brother Yoni was killed while leading the Israeli commando raid to free the hostages at Entebbe airport hijacked by Palestinian (and possibly German?) terrorists in the 1970s.

Think Idi Amin gave the hijackers permission to land in Uganda. It was made into a film starring Charles Bronson, although I'm not sure which part he played.

[Keith_M]

I read recently that Benjamin Netanyahu's brother Yoni was killed while leading the Israeli commando raid to free the hostages at Entebbe airport hijacked by Palestinian (and possibly German?) terrorists in the 1970s.

Think Idi Amin gave the hijackers permission to land in Uganda. It was made into a film starring Charles Bronson, although I'm not sure which part he played.


The hostage taking was a joint 'venture' by the PFLP (Palestine) and RAF* (Germany)

I think the aim was to trade the hostages for multiple prisoners held in Israel and elsewhere.



* The 'Red Army Faction', referred to in the UK as the 'Baader-Meinhof gang'.

[18Craig75]

So the Freedom Flotilla vessel Madeline, carrying vital aid supplies but more importantly hope for Gaza, was set upon by the rogue genocidal state. Reports of 5 speed boats surrounding the vessel and a white substance sprayed onto the ship from quadcopters, then the activists on board arrested.

This was a ship flying a UK flag.

[Hibspur]

So the Freedom Flotilla vessel Madeline, carrying vital aid supplies but more importantly hope for Gaza, was set upon by the rogue genocidal state. Reports of 5 speed boats surrounding the vessel and a white substance sprayed onto the ship from quadcopters, then the activists on board arrested.

This was a ship flying a UK flag.

Whatever your views on Gaza, there's no scandalous injustice here. Nobody seriously thinks a non-military boat is going to be able to sail into a war zone. It's a publicity stunt by Greta Thunberg & co. They will have known fine well what was going to happen and you can see that their videos about being intercepted are pre-recorded. Show's over now and they've achieved what they wanted from it. The aid they were bringing (less than a truckload according to Israel) is reported to be getting unloaded and distributed in Gaza via official channels, so seems a decent enough result for them overall.

[tamig]

Whatever your views on Gaza, there's no scandalous injustice here. Nobody seriously thinks a non-military boat is going to be able to sail into a war zone. It's a publicity stunt by Greta Thunberg & co. They will have known fine well what was going to happen and you can see that their videos about being intercepted are pre-recorded. Show's over now and they've achieved what they wanted from it. The aid they were bringing (less than a truckload according to Israel) is reported to be getting unloaded and distributed in Gaza via official channels, so seems a decent enough result for them overall.

Distributed in Gaza via “official” channels? A decent enough result? Highly doubtful.

[Hibspur]

Distributed in Gaza via “official” channels? A decent enough result? Highly doubtful.

Perhaps, but the cargo wasn't really the issue. Manufactured shock/keeping Gaza high profile was what they were aiming for so job done. Fair play to them. Personally I've always found Thunberg a bit irritating and the pics of her in her de rigueur Arab keffiyeh in a Titanic-style pose at the bow of the boat are a bit much, but plenty people still seem to lap her up, so each to their own.

[grunt]

In general, people taken prisoner are held in prisons or detention facilities. Hostages are not. Yeah, why aren't the Palestinians using all those prison buildings that haven't been razed to the ground by Israeli bombs?

[grunt]

Personally I've always found Thunberg a bit irritating ...Why am I not surprised?

[He's here!]

So the Freedom Flotilla vessel Madeline, carrying vital aid supplies but more importantly hope for Gaza, was set upon by the rogue genocidal state. Reports of 5 speed boats surrounding the vessel and a white substance sprayed onto the ship from quadcopters, then the activists on board arrested.

This was a ship flying a UK flag.

Greta Thunberg on board I see. Thought climate change was her thing?

[Ozyhibby]

Greta Thunberg on board I see. Thought climate change was her thing?

Does she have to be single issue?


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[Stick]

I don’t understand what the labour government are doing when they sanction 2 Israeli ministers, and at the same time continue to supply weapon parts. probably trying to sit on the fence so they can say, “we showed we were against Israel”, when that narrative suits, but can also say “we supported Israel”, when that narrative suits.

[Hibspur]

Does she have to be single issue?


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Imagine she'd be a bit disgruntled getting deported on a fuel-guzzling passenger jet.

[Jones28]

Israel have launched attacks on Iran.

Unverified reports saying civilians have been killed, including children.

[Scorrie]

Israel have launched attacks on Iran.

Unverified reports saying civilians have been killed, including children.

Targeted Iran nuclear facilities apparently

[Jones28]

Targeted Iran nuclear facilities apparently

I can’t be certain but there looks to be an apartment block hit.

So they’ve ****ing missed.

[Logie Green]

I can’t be certain but there looks to be an apartment block hit.

So they’ve ****ing missed.

Relax. They’ll open an enquiry, again.

[Scorrie]

I can’t be certain but there looks to be an apartment block hit.

So they’ve ****ing missed.

Yep. That’s why I used the word “apparently”. They’ve taken out a lot more besides

[He's here!]

Targeted Iran nuclear facilities apparently

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyg0yywr4no

Took out the commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard. Not someone you'd spend much time mourning. He'd have happily bombed the UK out of existence.

It's what comes next in terms of all-out war that's the concern now.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyg0yywr4no

Took out the commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard. Not someone you'd spend much time mourning. He'd have happily bombed the UK out of existence.

It's what comes next in terms of all-out war that's the concern now.

Iran doesn’t have the ability to respond that way. They might send some missiles and drones but it won’t do any real harm.


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[Jones28]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyg0yywr4no

Took out the commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard. Not someone you'd spend much time mourning. He'd have happily bombed the UK out of existence.

It's what comes next in terms of all-out war that's the concern now.

Sounds like both sides have wanted a square go for a long time.

[Jones28]

Iran doesn’t have the ability to respond that way. They might send some missiles and drones but it won’t do any real harm.


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Not convinced thats the case Ozy, needs someone more professional than me to be certain but haven't Iran got something like half a million full time soldiers?

[Ozyhibby]

Not convinced thats the case Ozy, needs someone more professional than me to be certain but haven't Iran got something like half a million full time soldiers?

There is no way they have the logistic capability to cross over Iraq and Syria to get to Isreal. Only the US has that. And even they would struggle to invade Iran.


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[He's here!]

Sounds like both sides have wanted a square go for a long time.

Yes, it comes down to Iran's perceived nuclear threat. Talks with the US over a deal have all but ground to a halt and yesterday the global nuclear watchdog found Iran in breach of its nuclear proliferation agreements. Israel have been monitoring this for months and clearly felt the threat of weaponisation by Iran was too great not to take preventative action.

Most in Israel will support this 100% and while the US claim not to have backed the strikes the fact they did nothing to try and talk Israel out of them and have been evacuating US personnel for days indicates they were very much in the loop.

[Col2]

Israel have never been held to account for its genocide while most countries turned a blind eye including the UK.

Israel government can now do what it wants. I assume they and anybody else won’t have any issue with Iran fighting back as they will have “the right to defend itself”….

[Hibspur]

Israel have never been held to account for its genocide while most countries turned a blind eye including the UK.

Israel government can now do what it wants. I assume they and anybody else won’t have any issue with Iran fighting back as they will have “the right to defend itself”….

This wasn't some random show of might. It's been years in the planning, with Mossad even constructing a secret drone base inside Iran. Whatever anyone's views on Netenyahu's goverment and whether they're prolonging the war in Gaza for political reasons, this strike on Iran is very much about Israel defending itself and will command a lot of support. The breakdown of talks between the US and Iran left Israel feeling they had to act now. Any Israeli government is likely to have acted in a similar fashion.

'The Octopus doctrine' (so named because Iran is seen as the head of the Octopus, with the tentacles representing its proxies in the Middle East...Hezbollah, Hamas, Houtis etc...) is about Israel stepping up its attacks on the head of an octopus which would like to see the Jewish race wiped off the face of the earth.

[Hibspur]

US effectively confirms it endorses the action, without officially sanctioning it:


US President Donald Trump has urged Iran to make a deal over its nuclear programme, saying he gave Tehran "chance after chance"
The talks between the US and Iran on a deal were about to enter their sixth round on Sunday (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3v6w2qr12o).
"I told them, in the strongest of words, to “just do it,” but no matter how hard they tried, no matter how close they got, they just couldn’t get it done," Trump writes on Truth Social.
"There has already been great death and destruction, but there is still time to make this slaughter, with the next already planned attacks being even more brutal, come to an end," he says.
"Iran must make a deal, before there is nothing left, and save what was once known as the Iranian Empire. No more death, no more destruction, JUST DO IT, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE."

[Hibspur]

I can’t be certain but there looks to be an apartment block hit.

So they’ve ****ing missed.

They certainly didn't miss. If you read about what they've hit, these were high-precision strikes which have left Iran reeling.

[Col2]

This wasn't some random show of might. It's been months/years in the planning, with Mossad even constructing a secret drone base inside Iran. Whatever anyone's views on Netenyahu's goverment and whether they're prolonging the war in Gaza for political reasons, this strike on Iran is very much about Israel defending itself and will command a lot of support. The breakdown of talks between the US and Iran left Israel feeling they had to act now. Any Israeli government is likely to have acted in a similar fashion.

'The Octopus doctrine' (so named because Iran is seen as the head of the Octopus, with the tentacles representing its proxies in the Middle East...Hezbollah, Hamas, Houtis etc...) is about Israel stepping up its attacks on the head of an octopus which would like to see the Jewish race wiped off the face of the earth.

Your last sentence sounds like propaganda. We don’t know this. Just like we assume the jewish race don’t want to wipe the Palestine people of the face of the earth? The Israel government will continue to antagonize especially when they think they have the backing of Trump and the US. Let’s hope this country has nothing to do with it and the upcoming war.

[The Tubs]

This wasn't some random show of might. It's been years in the planning, with Mossad even constructing a secret drone base inside Iran. Whatever anyone's views on Netenyahu's goverment and whether they're prolonging the war in Gaza for political reasons, this strike on Iran is very much about Israel defending itself and will command a lot of support. The breakdown of talks between the US and Iran left Israel feeling they had to act now. Any Israeli government is likely to have acted in a similar fashion.

'The Octopus doctrine' (so named because Iran is seen as the head of the Octopus, with the tentacles representing its proxies in the Middle East...Hezbollah, Hamas, Houtis etc...) is about Israel stepping up its attacks on the head of an octopus which would like to see the Jewish race wiped off the face of the earth.

I'm far from an apologist from the Ayatollah, but it's also about spreading chaos among their neighbours as a form of defence and projection.

Why did they not support the Obama-era deal?

[Jones28]

They certainly didn't miss. If you read about what they've hit, these were high-precision strikes which have left Iran reeling.

You can't be precise when you're blowing something up. Nothing on the collateral damage has come out yet but there's going to be some casualties. One of the videos I saw looked like a residential street with several floors in a block of flats in pieces.

Precisions strikes its some Gulf War propagandist crap.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m a lot more comfortable with Isreal attacking Iran than the Palestinians.


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[Hibby70]

some people just want to watch the world burn. : Alfred (2008)

[Hibs4185]

Sorry to bring it around to Ukraine but I feel Russia is behind a lot of this and a strike on Iran, hinders Russia whilst also putting them in a tough position.

In all conflicts I think it’s important to look at who the winners are and I have no doubt that Hamas attacking Israel and the folwoiinh war, helps take the heat of Putin and Russia.

Russia gets drones of Iran, Russia gives Hamas and Hezbollah weapons. They even give North Korea technology, who also now have nuclear weapons. Once the thought of North Korea having nuclear weapons was unthinkable but I read the other day they have 15-20, where the headlines about that?

In essence, I truly believe Putin is behind the whole collapse of the world order in the mast couple of years by enabling Hamas and Hezbollah.

I’m not supporting Israel, far from it but ok the context of world security, I feel safer today knowing that Iran has lost capabilities and the ability to support the Russian war effort.

[Hibspur]

Your last sentence sounds like propaganda. We don’t know this. Just like we assume the jewish race don’t want to wipe the Palestine people of the face of the earth? The Israel government will continue to antagonize especially when they think they have the backing of Trump and the US. Let’s hope this country has nothing to do with it and the upcoming war.

There will most likely be the usual token calls for de-escalation from the likes of Starmer and much of the international community, but no real condemnation. That's because they acknowledge privately that Israel is doing them a favour with its proactive measures in keeping Tehran's nuclear capabilities in check.

[Hibspur]

I'm far from an apologist from the Ayatollah, but it's also about spreading chaos among their neighbours as a form of defence and projection.

Why did they not support the Obama-era deal?

Ending the Obama deal was one of the few things Trump did that made sense. All that deal had really done was to give Iran some breathing space under the pretence of scaling back its nuclear programe. Much of their dismantled capability was simply kept in storage, ready to be re-installed.

[Sylar]

Of course the USA effectively sanctioned this. The vast majority of the current adminstration no doubt have shares in oil firms, which will be skyrocketing today as the price of crude oil soars accordingly.

The current US Government are printing money for themselves at the expense of everyone else - from his tarriff war, to the consequences of outright war, it's only ever been about one thing.

[The Tubs]

There will most likely be the usual token calls for de-escalation from the likes of Starmer and much of the international community, but no real condemnation. That's because they acknowledge privately that Israel is doing them a favour with its proactive measures in keeping Tehran's nuclear capabilities in check.

That's nonsense anaw. A government that's just announced risky spending plans to increase growth doesn't want higher oil prices.

[The Tubs]

Ending the Obama deal was one of the few things Trump did that made sense. All that deal had really done was to give Iran some breathing space under the pretence of scaling back its nuclear programe. Much of their dismantled capability was simply kept in storage, ready to be re-installed.

While not an expert, as far as I'm aware, all the IAEA has now are estimates of their capability and no idea of where the stockpiles are.

[Col2]

There will most likely be the usual token calls for de-escalation from the likes of Starmer and much of the international community, but no real condemnation. That's because they acknowledge privately that Israel is doing them a favour with its proactive measures in keeping Tehran's nuclear capabilities in check.

The only interest the Israel government have is total self interest and to ensure they stay in power and avoid being arrested due to the actions taken in Gaza. In any other country if the respective government was taking action like the genocide in Gaza the people would be on the streets demonstrating that it was not in the name of the people. Except we don’t see any of that. Israel would literally burn down the rest of the world if it felt it helped them.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

The Iranians have penetrated the “iron dome” with at least a few missiles, footage of Tel Aviv with plumes of smoke on BBC News just now.


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[Ozyhibby]

The Iranians have penetrated the “iron dome” with at least a few missiles, footage of Tel Aviv with plumes of smoke on BBC News just now.


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Almost certainly we will find out soon enough that we were involved in defending Isreal.
Iran will exhaust itself over the next couple of days. Israeli’s will keep going until they know Iran has no nuclear programme left. There won’t be any war. Iran doesn’t really have any friends or allies left in the region.


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[SickBoy32]

Really strange thread title for a discussion regarding the ultra aggressive, genocidal, permanently problematic state of Israel.

Shameful that our tax revenues go into supporting they bampots.