Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

[shamo9]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58412832


I'm assuming this applies to us?

The new vaccine certification rules will apply to:

Nightclubs and adult entertainment venues
Unseated indoor live events, with more than 500 people in the audience
Unseated outdoor live events, with more than 4,000 people in the audience
Any event, of any nature, which has more than 10,000 people in attendance

[erin go bragh]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58412832


I'm assuming this applies to us?

The new vaccine certification rules will apply to:

Nightclubs and adult entertainment venues
Unseated indoor live events, with more than 500 people in the audience
Unseated outdoor live events, with more than 4,000 people in the audience
Any event, of any nature, which has more than 10,000 people in attendance
We’re seated so should be ok

[bingo70]

We’re seated so should be ok

Doesn’t matter, it’s more than 10,000 people there so it will be needed

[green day]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58412832


I'm assuming this applies to us?

The new vaccine certification rules will apply to:

Nightclubs and adult entertainment venues
Unseated indoor live events, with more than 500 people in the audience
Unseated outdoor live events, with more than 4,000 people in the audience
Any event, of any nature, which has more than 10,000 people in attendance

It will if it gets past next week's debate. Which it probably will

[nonshinyfinish]

Doesn’t matter, it’s more than 10,000 people there so it will be needed

If the keeper from Clyde doesn't start banging in the goals then we'll be under 10k easy.

[jeffers]

I don’t have an issue with this, but who is going to enforce it ?

[Hibee Mac]

Shouldn't be an issue, most of the over 18 population should be vaccinated by the time this comes into place and if they're not it's probably either an anomaly or because they chose not to get it.

[bingo70]

I don’t have an issue with this, but who is going to enforce it ?

Wonder if your season ticket could be invalid until you can show your vaccine passport?

Would seem unnecessary to show it every week.

[CropleyWasGod]

Wonder if your season ticket could be invalid until you can show your vaccine passport?

Would seem unnecessary to show it every week.

Think you would have to. Otherwise people who borrow a ST might get in without a certificate.

[shamo9]

Wonder if your season ticket could be invalid until you can show your vaccine passport?

Would seem unnecessary to show it every week.

Yeah, it would be a real pain having to bring it for every game and get it checked by stewards.

I wonder if anti-vaxxers will be able to get their season ticket refunded over this? It could be a headache for Hibs.

[bingo70]

Shouldn't be an issue, most of the over 18 population should be vaccinated by the time this comes into place and if they're not it's probably either an anomaly or because they chose not to get it.

Have to say, I’ve got some sympathy for people that just don’t want to get it, they don’t need to justify it in my mind, it’s none of my business.

Something I don’t get, and apologies if it’s a stupid question but hopefully someone can answer it for me, I’ve been double jabbed so I’m relatively safe from covid, or as safe as I can be, if joe bloggs sat next to me isn’t double jabbed that’s his concern not mine as he’s the one risking getting ill.

I’m sure that’s a bit simplistic but it’s something I’ve never really got.

Explanations appreciated 😂

[jeffers]

Wonder if your season ticket could be invalid until you can show your vaccine passport?

Would seem unnecessary to show it every week.

However it’s done bingo it’s an admin headache for the club.

[Hermit Crab]

Everyone who is double jagged is on record therefor we should all be sent a credit card size photo ID card that says you're double jagged. Simple stuff really

[Billy Whizz]

I take two 14 year olds, not my own. Neither have been vaccinated, so do they not get in

[Hermit Crab]

I take two 14 year olds, not my own. Neither have been vaccinated, so do they not get in


Does it not only apply to over 18s?

[MartinfaePorty]

Have to say, I’ve got some sympathy for people that just don’t want to get it, they don’t need to justify it in my mind, it’s none of my business.

Something I don’t get, and apologies if it’s a stupid question but hopefully someone can answer it for me, I’ve been double jabbed so I’m relatively safe from covid, or as safe as I can be, if joe bloggs sat next to me isn’t double jabbed that’s his concern not mine as he’s the one risking getting ill.

I’m sure that’s a bit simplistic but it’s something I’ve never really got.

Explanations appreciated 😂

My mate just tested positive and he's had both jags and I've heard of a number of other people with the same. You can still get it, although the likelihood is that you'll not get as sick as you would without being jagged. That being said, I wouldn't want to be sat next to someone who decide not to have their jags out of some (in my opinion) misplaced beliefs, so I'm happy for this to be introduced as a temporary measure until numbers improve.

[CropleyWasGod]

Everyone who is double jagged is on record therefor we should all be sent a credit card size photo ID card that says you're double jagged. Simple stuff really

Where are the photos coming from?

[jeffers]

Everyone who is double jagged is on record therefor we should all be sent a credit card size photo ID card that says you're double jagged. Simple stuff really

I think it more likely to be something you can download to your phone, but it still either requires the ticket office to update their records to reflect this or we have stewards at every turnstile checking before someone enters the ground.

[PatHead]

Have to say, I’ve got some sympathy for people that just don’t want to get it, they don’t need to justify it in my mind, it’s none of my business.

Something I don’t get, and apologies if it’s a stupid question but hopefully someone can answer it for me, I’ve been double jabbed so I’m relatively safe from covid, or as safe as I can be, if joe bloggs sat next to me isn’t double jabbed that’s his concern not mine as he’s the one risking getting ill.

I’m sure that’s a bit simplistic but it’s something I’ve never really got.

Explanations appreciated 😂

They could still pass Covid onto you. With you having vaccinations this should reduce the chances of you suffering too much. It doesn't guarantee this though which is why we all need to be careful and follow the basic instructions.

[vahibbie]

Everyone who is double jagged is on record therefor we should all be sent a credit card size photo ID card that says you're double jagged. Simple stuff really

Good idea. Unfortunately would take months to send out, plus costs.

[erin go bragh]

We’re seated so should be ok

Edit ,, didn’t read the last paragraph lol .
How do you get a COVID passport 🤔

[hibbyfraelibby]

...and we thought the queues at the kiosks were bad. Wait until they have to scan every single phone QR Code especially those still using Nokia 3560s!😉

[hibby rae]

Have to say, I’ve got some sympathy for people that just don’t want to get it, they don’t need to justify it in my mind, it’s none of my business.

Something I don’t get, and apologies if it’s a stupid question but hopefully someone can answer it for me, I’ve been double jabbed so I’m relatively safe from covid, or as safe as I can be, if joe bloggs sat next to me isn’t double jabbed that’s his concern not mine as he’s the one risking getting ill.

I’m sure that’s a bit simplistic but it’s something I’ve never really got.

Explanations appreciated ��

You would be less likely to get ill, if double jabbed, but you can still get it and pass it on. I caught it after one jab, from my pal who had had two, and had to postpone my second until 28 days after symptoms appeared. Even though I'd had one, I did still get knocked a bit and have had long covid from it.

If people don't want to get it, not much you can do. However they do have to realise their actions have consequences, and if one of those is they can't watch Hibs then that's tough. It's amazing the number of adults that need actions having consequences explained to them.

[Greenbeard]

However it’s done bingo it’s an admin headache for the club.
If it is policed properly I'd expect someone will have to check your vaccine passport before you go through the turnstile but it needs to be more than a cursory glance. It should be a proper read, and also cross-checked against some other ID, preferably photo ID, to prove that you are the person named on the passport. Do that and access is going to be considerably slowed. Can't see it happening that way, at least not once queues start to build at the turnstiles and folk start to get irate.

[Col2]

If the keeper from Clyde doesn't start banging in the goals then we'll be under 10k easy.

🤣🤣🤣👍

[shamo9]

Edit ,, didn’t read the last paragraph lol .
How do you get a COVID passport 🤔

https://vacs.nhs.scot/csp (https://vacs.nhs.scot/csp)

You can get a paper copy of your vaccination status here. They post it to you. I got one. Took about a week.

[Greenbeard]

Edit ,, didn’t read the last paragraph lol .
How do you get a COVID passport 🤔
Online through NHS. IIRC you will need your NHS reference number which would have ben on your vaccine appointment letter.

[Oscar T Grouch]

I just printed my 'passport' from the NHS website, it just an A4 piece of paper with my name, DoB and the details and dates of my two jags.

[Moulin Yarns]

Where are the photos coming from?

My saltire card. 😉

[Blaster]

QR codes will be available in a couple of weeks

Great idea if it stops restrictions being reimposed

[jeffers]

If it is policed properly I'd expect someone will have to check your vaccine passport before you go through the turnstile but it needs to be more than a cursory glance. It should be a proper read, and also cross-checked against some other ID, preferably photo ID, to prove that you are the person named on the passport. Do that and access is going to be considerably slowed. Can't see it happening that way, at least not once queues start to build at the turnstiles and folk start to get irate.

No either can I. Be typical if this is introduced then clubs left to work out for themselves how to administer it.

[HH81]

How does it work if I am travelling up from England?

[Mr Grieves]

QR codes will be available in a couple of weeks

Great idea if it stops restrictions being reimposed

QR codes available from Friday according to the BBC report

[H113EE5]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58412832


I'm assuming this applies to us?

The new vaccine certification rules will apply to:

Nightclubs and adult entertainment venues
Unseated indoor live events, with more than 500 people in the audience
Unseated outdoor live events, with more than 4,000 people in the audience
Any event, of any nature, which has more than 10,000 people in attendance

Hope so.

[Blaster]

QR codes available from Friday according to the BBC report

Is it? Even better

[ancient hibee]

Have to say, I’ve got some sympathy for people that just don’t want to get it, they don’t need to justify it in my mind, it’s none of my business.

Something I don’t get, and apologies if it’s a stupid question but hopefully someone can answer it for me, I’ve been double jabbed so I’m relatively safe from covid, or as safe as I can be, if joe bloggs sat next to me isn’t double jabbed that’s his concern not mine as he’s the one risking getting ill.

I’m sure that’s a bit simplistic but it’s something I’ve never really got.

Explanations appreciated 😂

It’s estimated that just over half the people currently in hospital have been double vaccinated.

[H113EE5]

Rather than use a UK wide (produced in England), off the shelf vaccine passport for smart devices, this government has commissioned a Danish company to design on for Scotland at £600k. Who knows when it’ll be ready but as long as we’re different to England, who cares 😏😏

[Joe6-2]

My mate just tested positive and he's had both jags and I've heard of a number of other people with the same. You can still get it, although the likelihood is that you'll not get as sick as you would without being jagged. That being said, I wouldn't want to be sat next to someone who decide not to have their jags out of some (in my opinion) misplaced beliefs, so I'm happy for this to be introduced as a temporary measure until numbers improve.

This

[BegbieHSC]

Makes sense given the state of affairs with the huge volume of cases right now. If it stops major restrictions being reintroduced, it’s a lesser, necessary evil.

Feel for the young ones though (he says gleefully having just had his second dose a fortnight ago.)

[Blaster]

My mate just tested positive and he's had both jags and I've heard of a number of other people with the same. You can still get it, although the likelihood is that you'll not get as sick as you would without being jagged. That being said, I wouldn't want to be sat next to someone who decide not to have their jags out of some (in my opinion) misplaced beliefs, so I'm happy for this to be introduced as a temporary measure until numbers improve.

I tested positive yesterday and have had both jabs. At the moment just feels ike a bit of a head cold. Hopefully as bad as it gets 👍

[Casey1875]

I think the whole covid passport thing is seriously flawed. I have not been vaccinated but have had covid, so will in theory be as equally protected as those double jabbed, yet I will not be allowed pretty much anywhere if this type of thing is passed.

It was my choice not to have it and I am happy to live with that rather than do something I am not comfortable with, considering that it wasn't part of the T&C's of entry when I bought it I will be expecting a refund for my season ticket though.

[Brightside]

I’m all for it but no idea how it gets implemented at football grounds. Half the players won’t get in for a start.

[Magpie]

If you work in these places will you lose your job if your not double vaccinated?

[Mick O'Rourke]

Have to say, I’ve got some sympathy for people that just don’t want to get it, they don’t need to justify it in my mind, it’s none of my business.

Something I don’t get, and apologies if it’s a stupid question but hopefully someone can answer it for me, I’ve been double jabbed so I’m relatively safe from covid, or as safe as I can be, if joe bloggs sat next to me isn’t double jabbed that’s his concern not mine as he’s the one risking getting ill.

I’m sure that’s a bit simplistic but it’s something I’ve never really got.

Explanations appreciated ��




I have no time whatsoever for anti-vaxxers. unless its medical advice/condition that is reason for not getting vaccinated.

If Joe Bloggs sat next to you has not been jabbed, you ARE in danger of getting infected,as is he of course.

I told here about my pal Davie who passed away last month with the Covid and he had both his jabs(2nd one last May)
Family think his train journey and weekend in London invited the virus
Such a crowded train(few masks) and London during Scotland v England game

I wont go near big gatherings till most if not all have had both jabs

But thats me, being elderly and with underlying medicai conditions.

[superfurryhibby]

I wonder where all this will end?

I'm fully vaccinated, but I'm also deeply concerned about the erosion of freedoms and liberties that we're seeing. I'm massively against coercive approaches to promoting vaccination.

[JimBHibees]

All for it to be honest. Should be seen as a civic duty.

[Brummie_Hibs]

I think the whole covid passport thing is seriously flawed. I have not been vaccinated but have had covid, so will in theory be as equally protected as those double jabbed, yet I will not be allowed pretty much anywhere if this type of thing is passed.

It was my choice not to have it and I am happy to live with that rather than do something I am not comfortable with, considering that it wasn't part of the T&C's of entry when I bought it I will be expecting a refund for my season ticket though.

Agreed

Vaccinations are proving to be not particularly effective, and latest research shows natural immunity is more effective. However, that debate is slammed down by the MSM and Govt. Why?

People saying they wouldn't feel comfortable being next to somebody who hasn't been vaccinated just shows the level of unfounded fear that has been brainwashed into people.

Fully vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid
Single vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid
Non vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid

Vaccinated people apparently don't get ill as much. So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you.

[Callum_62]

Agreed

Vaccinations are proving to be not particularly effective, and latest research shows natural immunity is more effective. However, that debate is slammed down by the MSM and Govt. Why?

People saying they wouldn't feel comfortable being next to somebody who hasn't been vaccinated just shows the level of unfounded fear that has been brainwashed into people.

Fully vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid
Single vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid
Non vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid

Vaccinated people apparently don't get ill as much. So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you.Vaccinations are proving not very effective?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Zambernardi1875]

Expect more football fans to get there Saturday fix watching lower league clubs. Guaranteed easy entry and at 3pm sat.

[Brummie_Hibs]

Vaccinations are proving not very effective?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Okay, they are effective at reducing illness. But that is about it - they are not making you immune, and you can still get very ill and die, and you are now needing regular boosters.

So they are effective at reducing hospital backlogs - which is good. However, there is no pressure on the NHS these days - it is under control. So I don't see the point in these passports.

[hibby rae]

Rather than use a UK wide (produced in England), off the shelf vaccine passport for smart devices, this government has commissioned a Danish company to design on for Scotland at £600k. Who knows when it’ll be ready but as long as we’re different to England, who cares 😏😏

Given the s***show that was the English track and trace app, I'm not blaming them for going elsewhere.

[hibby rae]

I wonder where all this will end?

I'm fully vaccinated, but I'm also deeply concerned about the erosion of freedoms and liberties that we're seeing. I'm massively against coercive approaches to promoting vaccination.

There's no erosion of freedoms, people are free to not get the vaccine. They just have to deal with the consequences.

It's not different from me needing a variety of different vaccines when I travelled to Ghana. If I didn't have documentation to say I had been vaccinated against Yellow Fever, I wouldn't have been allowed into the country.

[CropleyWasGod]

I’m all for it but no idea how it gets implemented at football grounds. Half the players won’t get in for a start.


If you work in these places will you lose your job if your not double vaccinated?

These may be related :greengrin

[hibby rae]

Okay, they are effective at reducing illness. But that is about it - they are not making you immune, and you can still get very ill and die, and you are now needing regular boosters.

So they are effective at reducing hospital backlogs - which is good. However, there is no pressure on the NHS these days - it is under control. So I don't see the point in these passports.

The point that they are effective at reducing illness is quite a big one. My friend has asthma, had she not been double jabbed when she contracted covid she may well be dead.

[Greenbeard]

I wonder where all this will end?

I'm fully vaccinated, but I'm also deeply concerned about the erosion of freedoms and liberties that we're seeing. I'm massively against coercive approaches to promoting vaccination.
"Alexa. Can I go to the toilet please."

[Brummie_Hibs]

The point that they are effective at reducing illness is quite a big one. My friend has asthma, had she not been double jabbed when she contracted covid she may well be dead.
I have asthma, I caught covid, I'm alive.

Life is full of what ifs...

Edit:I should add, I have no problem people getting vaccinations. That is your choice - cool, I ain't going to berate anybody for that. Just as others should have the choice not to.

If the vaccinations proved that they made you immune and stopped the spread, then yes there is a good argument to make the compulsary. But they don't, so this pressure on civil liberties is baffling to me.

[Greenbeard]

Okay, they are effective at reducing illness. But that is about it - they are not making you immune, and you can still get very ill and die, and you are now needing regular boosters.

So they are effective at reducing hospital backlogs - which is good. However, there is no pressure on the NHS these days - it is under control. So I don't see the point in these passports.
Not where I live....
https://www.bordertelegraph.com/news/19525050.nhs-borders-cancels-routine-operations-two-weeks/

[nonshinyfinish]

How does it work if I am travelling up from England?

I'd imagine the proof of vaccination used when travelling abroad should be sufficient for now.

You should be able to get a PDF confirming vaccination status through here: https://covid-status.service.nhsx.nhs.uk/ – bear in mind it has a 'valid until' date of one month from when you generate it, so you'd have to generate a new one regularly.

You can also use the NHS app on your phone (not the covid app, there's another one just called NHS App) – unlike the PDF, that shouldn't need to be updated.

[Bristolhibby]

Have to say, I’ve got some sympathy for people that just don’t want to get it, they don’t need to justify it in my mind, it’s none of my business.

Something I don’t get, and apologies if it’s a stupid question but hopefully someone can answer it for me, I’ve been double jabbed so I’m relatively safe from covid, or as safe as I can be, if joe bloggs sat next to me isn’t double jabbed that’s his concern not mine as he’s the one risking getting ill.

I’m sure that’s a bit simplistic but it’s something I’ve never really got.

Explanations appreciated 😂

Joe Bloggs by not getting vaccinated could be incubating a super strain of Covid (call it Theta).

Theta is resistant to vaccines and is hyper transmittable. You would be Donald ducked.

The less hosts Covid has, the smaller the opportunity it has to mutate.

Having Vaccine passports is a step to “incentivise” people to get the jags and prevent mutations.

J

[MJ hibs]

Half the players won’t get in for a start.

Is there an issue with players not wanting to get it?

[007]

Yeah, it would be a real pain having to bring it for every game and get it checked by stewards.

I wonder if anti-vaxxers will be able to get their season ticket refunded over this? It could be a headache for Hibs.

There's no reason why Hibs should refund STs over this.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Someone earlier wrote.....

"Vaccinated people apparently don't get ill as much. So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you."



Dont know who told you that nonsense.

It mattered one iota to me and my pals family when he died from Covid having had both jabs.

[Bristolhibby]

I think the whole covid passport thing is seriously flawed. I have not been vaccinated but have had covid, so will in theory be as equally protected as those double jabbed, yet I will not be allowed pretty much anywhere if this type of thing is passed.

It was my choice not to have it and I am happy to live with that rather than do something I am not comfortable with, considering that it wasn't part of the T&C's of entry when I bought it I will be expecting a refund for my season ticket though.

I believe the law trumps your terms and conditions.

I’m sure Hibs will refund you though as a good will gesture.

J

[shamo9]

There's no reason why Hibs should refund STs over this.

We've already had one unvaccinated person on this thread claiming they'll be requesting a refund if they can't go :dunno:

[Brummie_Hibs]

"Vaccinated people apparently don't get ill as much. So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you."

Dont know who told you that nonsense

It mattered one iota to me and my pals family when he died from Covid having had both jabs

It is the mainstream media and the government who tell me that vaccinations don't make me as ill. Otherwise, why are they telling me that I have to have them if they dont?

[Bristolhibby]

I have asthma, I caught covid, I'm alive.

Life is full of what ifs...

Edit:I should add, I have no problem people getting vaccinations. That is your choice - cool, I ain't going to berate anybody for that. Just as others should have the choice not to.

If the vaccinations proved that they made you immune and stopped the spread, then yes there is a good argument to make the compulsary. But they don't, so this pressure on civil liberties is baffling to me.

The vaccines are effective reducting to 60% after 6 ish months.

That’s 6 in 10 NOT getting COVID because of vaccines. That is effective for those 6. The four who do get it, ain’t dying as much as they would do without a vaccine. That is effective.

More people with vaccines = less deaths. It’s simple numbers.

If that means non vaccinated can’t go to nightclubs, festivals or football matches, then so be it.

This is not about the individual, it’s about the collective.

Perhaps missing Hibs may convince some more people to get vaccinated.

J

[Just_Jimmy]

obviously ER is pretty much ST holders only atm but what happens to English based Hibbies? I got both my Jags early doors and I've been up to Scotland a few times since but will I be able to get a passport to attend Hibs games etc? for example I've got Scotland Rugby tickets in Nov for autumn test. will I need it then?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Hibee Mac]

I wonder where all this will end?

I'm fully vaccinated, but I'm also deeply concerned about the erosion of freedoms and liberties that we're seeing. I'm massively against coercive approaches to promoting vaccination.I'm probably a bit ignorant to this point but I'm genuinely interested in why you think there is an erosion of freedoms and liberties (clearly you're not the only one as it's a hot topic)?

I understand that we have fewer freedoms etc right now but that's because there is a global pandemic and as a society we are doing our best to try and contain it (i.e. it's a temporary measure for the greater good).

When it comes to vaccination passports etc then I understand that some people may wish not to get the vaccine, however, if we allowed everyone the freedom to go back to normal with no vaccines then we would be openly deciding that other, more vulnerable people, in society do not deserve as much protection from the virus?

I suppose it comes down to weighing up what's more important, people's freedom to not get vaccinated (when all the evidence of medical experts points to it being fine) Vs protecting our population from disease/the virus?

There is no doubt a balance to be had but to me it's a no brainer that we protect the population as much as possible at the expense of pissing off some anti-vaxers.

All that being said, there are clearly a lot of people who see it as a far more important issue than I'm making out above, so I'm genuinely interested to understand why...

[Bristolhibby]

obviously ER is pretty much ST holders only atm but what happens to English based Hibbies? I got both my Jags early doors and I've been up to Scotland a few times since but will I be able to get a passport to attend Hibs games etc? for example I've got Scotland Rugby tickets in Nov for autumn test. will I need it then?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Download the NHS app. Your record is there. It even works with Apple wallet now.

J

[JohnM1875]

'senior figures' within Scottish Football think it's 'completely unworkable' and the joint response group are meeting to discuss it soon apparently.

[superfurryhibby]

There's no erosion of freedoms, people are free to not get the vaccine. They just have to deal with the consequences.

It's not different from me needing a variety of different vaccines when I travelled to Ghana. If I didn't have documentation to say I had been vaccinated against Yellow Fever, I wouldn't have been allowed into the country.

You missed the part about my concerns around where this will end.

Of course there are erosions of freedoms and the more we accept them as necessary measures, the more freedoms will go. They won't be so easily returned though

Collective good v rights of the individual, We've seen this story played out before.

[Bristolhibby]

The SFA think it's 'completely unworkable' and the joint response group are meeting to discuss it soon apparently.

Is it completely unworkable or difficult?

J

[JohnM1875]

Is it completely unworkable or difficult?

J

Sorry had to edit. Wasn't the SFA. Was senior figures within Scottish Football. Completely unworkable was the quote.

[HH81]

I'd imagine the proof of vaccination used when travelling abroad should be sufficient for now.

You should be able to get a PDF confirming vaccination status through here: https://covid-status.service.nhsx.nhs.uk/ – bear in mind it has a 'valid until' date of one month from when you generate it, so you'd have to generate a new one regularly.

You can also use the NHS app on your phone (not the covid app, there's another one just called NHS App) – unlike the PDF, that shouldn't need to be updated.

Thanks I'll look into it.

Worked it out and got mine. Thanks again.

[Bristolhibby]

Sorry had to edit. Wasn't the SFA. Was senior figures within Scottish Football. Completely unworkable was the quote.

Where there is a will there’s a way.

I’m quite looking forward to vaccine passport nightclubs. Just because I’m old.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

Agreed

Vaccinations are proving to be not particularly effective, and latest research shows natural immunity is more effective. However, that debate is slammed down by the MSM and Govt. Why?

People saying they wouldn't feel comfortable being next to somebody who hasn't been vaccinated just shows the level of unfounded fear that has been brainwashed into people.

Fully vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid
Single vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid
Non vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid

Vaccinated people apparently don't get ill as much. So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you.

The selfish way to look at it is just that, "I'm vaccinated so I'm OK" when it should really be, "I'm vaccinated so the chances of infecting others is reduced"

[douglashibs]

The only pandemic right now is one of hysteria. Let’s see how happy everyone is when you have to take a third jab to be considered vaccinated, as in Israel. Then a fourth?

[CockneyRebel]

https://vacs.nhs.scot/csp (https://vacs.nhs.scot/csp)

You can get a paper copy of your vaccination status here. They post it to you. I got one. Took about a week.


I printed mine off my laptop screen from the link above. It gives your name , DOB and the dates of your two vaccinations and the type of vaccine used. It's on A4 so not the perfect size so I might get it reduced at a photocopy shop. My phone is only one step up from an abacus so no good for swiping.

[Bristolhibby]

The only pandemic right now is one of hysteria. Let’s see how happy everyone is when you have to take a third jab to be considered vaccinated, as in Israel. Then a fourth?

A Booster you mean?

I get a flu jag every autumn.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

Okay, they are effective at reducing illness. But that is about it - they are not making you immune, and you can still get very ill and die, and you are now needing regular boosters.

So they are effective at reducing hospital backlogs - which is good. However, there is no pressure on the NHS these days - it is under control. So I don't see the point in these passports.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/2497805/covid-scotland-more-than-6000-new-cases-as-pressure-on-nhs-grows/

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/7640084/coronavirus-scotland-nicola-sturgeon-death-warning-nhs/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-58391759

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2021/08/warnings-of-winter-like-pressures-on-nhs-nationally-as-417-cases-confirmed-in-lincolnshire-on-tuesday/

And that's just a quick look!!!!

[superfurryhibby]

The only pandemic right now is one of hysteria. Let’s see how happy everyone is when you have to take a third jab to be considered vaccinated, as in Israel. Then a fourth?

It will never end, too much money being made.

[superfurryhibby]

A Booster you mean?

I get a flu jag every autumn.

J

Is that mandatory?

[CockneyRebel]

The only pandemic right now is one of hysteria. Let’s see how happy everyone is when you have to take a third jab to be considered vaccinated, as in Israel. Then a fourth?

But if it does come to that what's the alternative. We would just have to suck it up (although an injection would be preferable).

[Greenbeard]

The only pandemic right now is one of hysteria. Let’s see how happy everyone is when you have to take a third jab to be considered vaccinated, as in Israel. Then a fourth?
I'm happy with that. Once a month if that's what it takes.

[Sioux]

Agreed

Vaccinations are proving to be not particularly effective, and latest research shows natural immunity is more effective. However, that debate is slammed down by the MSM and Govt. Why?

People saying they wouldn't feel comfortable being next to somebody who hasn't been vaccinated just shows the level of unfounded fear that has been brainwashed into people.

Fully vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid
Single vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid
Non vaccinated people carry, spread and die from Covid

Vaccinated people apparently don't get ill as much. So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you.


If I can die from Covid, having been infected by someone sitting next to me, it matters more than one iota to me. What are you on about?

[Wakeyhibee]

Dont disagree in principle but what is the aim? 2 x vax is no guarantee you wont catch it and transmit it. So a passport wont stop transmission of the virus and therefore any serious cases at the match/event or afterwards for that matter.

So what is the aim? To encourage more to get vaxxed mainly younger folk.

Only 5 clubs will be affected in Scotland + the National games.

Anybody close to the cut off point for games v the OF will simply limit the crowd to 9999 for all the added expense it will cause. Clydebank did it to avoid being over the 10000 capacity back in the day to avoid more rigorous ground checks.

I dont see what it will achieve that's all.

[TrinityHibs]

Download the NHS app. Your record is there. It even works with Apple wallet now.

J

I don’t think the app works in Scotland yet but you can screenshot your record from the nhs site if you have your code to get in.

[Bristolhibby]

Is that mandatory?

Is watching Hibs mandatory?

J

[Brummie_Hibs]

If I can die from Covid, having been infected by someone sitting next to me, it matters more than one iota to me. What are you on about?
Does it matter more to you one way or another if you were infected by somebody who had been vacinnated or by somebody who hadn't been?

[superfurryhibby]

Is watching Hibs mandatory?

J

You're making a point about your decision to get a flu vaccine and trying to make an analogy with restrictions facing people who choose to be unvaccinated. It's not really the same as the direction of travel were going down with coercive measures and Covid, is it?

[Sioux]

I printed mine off my laptop screen from the link above. It gives your name , DOB and the dates of your two vaccinations and the type of vaccine used. It's on A4 so not the perfect size so I might get it reduced at a photocopy shop. My phone is only one step up from an abacus so no good for swiping.

I've been abroad a couple of times recently and a screen shot is not an acceptable form of proof. The actual letter is required. Which is a bit of a pain because it now looks like a dog's dinner.

[hibby rae]

You missed the part about my concerns around where this will end.

Of course there are erosions of freedoms and the more we accept them as necessary measures, the more freedoms will go. They won't be so easily returned though

Collective good v rights of the individual, We've seen this story played out before.

Can you provide an example of a previous point in history when people couldn't go to a football match or gig because they refused a vaccine? Because that's all it is, this is not the dawn of a totalitarian state.

There is no reason to be concerned. Restrictions have been largely lifted so it is already ending, those that choose to not get the vaccine will miss out on things that is all. Their choice, deal with it.

The covid vaccine will be here to stay, just like polio, the mmr, and the flu vaccine.

[Northernhibee]

If I was to walk into the football swinging an anvil round and round above my head I wouldn’t be let in either, for the protection of others.

[douglashibs]

But if it does come to that what's the alternative. We would just have to suck it up (although an injection would be preferable).
Know your legal rights. As I understand it, regulations of the Scottish Parliament do not override the Equalities Act, which is primary legislation. That Act makes it illegal to discriminate on medical grounds. Hibs would be liable for refusing entry on medical grounds. No doubt the legal eagles will clarify.

[hibby rae]

I have asthma, I caught covid, I'm alive.

Life is full of what ifs...

Edit:I should add, I have no problem people getting vaccinations. That is your choice - cool, I ain't going to berate anybody for that. Just as others should have the choice not to.

If the vaccinations proved that they made you immune and stopped the spread, then yes there is a good argument to make the compulsary. But they don't, so this pressure on civil liberties is baffling to me.

Then you are extremely lucky. Life is full of what ifs, but you can take steps to limit the bad ones, not doing so if negligent.

What pressures are there on civil liberties now that didn't exist pre-pandemic? The vaccine isn't compulsory.

The only one I can think of is the Tories anti-protest bill, and that isn't really about Covid.

[One Day Soon]

Is it completely unworkable or difficult?

J


I would think this will turn out to be a mixture of both very, very messy and substantively unworkable. Also it probably won't have its intended effect without photo ID.

[Mick O'Rourke]

It is the mainstream media and the government who tell me that vaccinations don't make me as ill. Otherwise, why are they telling me that I have to have them if they dont?

I agree with that
But you went on to say

.......So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you."


That is not a medical fact, or any other
Tell my mates family that one.





Leave it there then

Glory Glory

[1875Sean]

I would imagine for people who don’t want or haven’t had the vaccine will be able to go as long as they provide proof of a recent negative lat flow test, this was always coming , England do it in threatres etc already the only reason why we delayed it as the app hasn’t ready

[May21/05/216]

What about under 12 season ticket holders

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[1875Sean]

What about under 12 season ticket holders

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It was on the article it’s only for over 18s

[May21/05/216]

Cheers for clearing that up

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

[Radium]

Response to First Minister’s vaccine certification announcement

The Joint Response Group notes the First Minister’s comments today regarding the potential implementation of a COVID-19 vaccine certification process as a prerequisite for entry into outdoor events with more than 10,000 people in attendance, including football matches.

Scottish football is committed to the ongoing collective effort to eradicate the virus and continues to adhere to the strictest protocols even after restrictions were lifted across society.

Indeed, on Monday the National Clinical Director, Professor Jason Leitch, gave a presentation to players and clubs on the clinical facts behind vaccination, to expedite the roll-out within the game.

None the less, we have today raised concerns on the considerable unintended consequences of implementing a certification process without sufficient time or appropriate IT infrastructure in place.

We will endeavour to establish full details in the coming days but stress the need to ensure a practical and workable solution for member clubs, their staff and supporters; in particular season ticket holders who bought their tickets in good faith and on the understanding they would be allowed back into the stadium when restrictions were lifted.

We ask ministers to carefully consider the unintended consequences of certification, especially in such a short timeframe, and request a meeting with Scottish Government to discuss the matter and its implications for clubs prior to a parliamentary vote.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/jrg-update-wednesday-1-september/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibs90]

Anti-Vaxxers need their head examined for believing some ***** they read on the internet. On a par with Trumpism. Absolutely baffling.

[One Day Soon]

Anti-Vaxxers need their head examined for believing some ***** they read on the internet. On a par with Trumpism. Absolutely baffling.

And remember, this didn't just suddenly emerge out of pandemic. People with those kinds of views walk among us ALL THE TIME.

[HoboHarry]

Anti-Vaxxers need their head examined for believing some ***** they read on the internet. On a par with Trumpism. Absolutely baffling.
Don't vaxxers and anti-vaxxers all get information from the internet?

[Since452]

If folk haven't had the vaccine because they can't be bothered or think it's all a hoax then tough ****. That's all I'm saying on it.

[wookie70]

Shouldn't be an issue, most of the over 18 population should be vaccinated by the time this comes into place and if they're not it's probably either an anomaly or because they chose not to get it.

Which is why I can't see the point. Over 80% of the population have had a vaccine. Over 85% of those over 40 have had both doses. This will make getting in far more time consuming and mean people are actually next to each other longer. This seems like an unnecessary grab of our freedoms and in the greater scheme of things those freedoms have been hugely reduced year on year. I hoped the SG would rise above this but looks like they will fall in with the political flock.

I say that as someone who has had both doses but it will clearly go against equality laws if this is implemented

[hibby rae]

Which is why I can't see the point. Over 80% of the population have had a vaccine. Over 85% of those over 40 have had the vaccine. This will make getting in far more time consuming and mean people are actually next to each other longer. This seems like an unnecessary grab of our freedoms and in the greater scheme of things those freedoms have been hugely reduced year on year. I hoped the SG would rise above this but looks like they will fall in with the political flock.

It's not an attack on freedom at all. You are free to not get the vaccine.

If you travel to a lot of countries you have to get a vaccine for many things, you can say no. You just can't go that country. This is no different.

[Sir David Gray]

I totally support this move and in my opinion it should extend even further to include restaurants and pubs etc which are even higher risk environments than Easter Road.

Hopefully this means those of who have done all we can will be able to continue leading as normal a life as possible.

We need to try everything possible to prevent further restrictions and I see this as the best way to try and achieve that.

[superfurryhibby]

Can you provide an example of a previous point in history when people couldn't go to a football match or gig because they refused a vaccine? Because that's all it is, this is not the dawn of a totalitarian state.

There is no reason to be concerned. Restrictions have been largely lifted so it is already ending, those that choose to not get the vaccine will miss out on things that is all. Their choice, deal with it.

The covid vaccine will be here to stay, just like polio, the mmr, and the flu vaccine.

I think you are maybe deliberately misunderstanding my point, but I'm not reassured by your take on the future of our society.

Are Polio, MMR and the Flu vaccination edging towards becoming mandatory measures?

I do agree with your point about Covid vaccination being here to stay though.

[BlackSheep]

Shouldn't be an issue, most of the over 18 population should be vaccinated by the time this comes into place and if they're not it's probably either an anomaly or because they chose not to get it.

Only 51% of 18-29 year olds have have their first dose… this could come into force from next weekend… I can’t see the other 49% getting vaccinated in a week.

[SChibs]

It's not an attack on freedom at all. You are free to not get the vaccine.

If you travel to a lot of countries you have to get a vaccine for many things, you can say no. You just can't go that country. This is no different.

The difference with those vaccinations is the vaccines you get for going to places like India have high death rates. If I was to catch rabies there's a 95% chance I'll die. If I was to catch covid there's around 0.08 chance I will die.

[hibbysam]

I’m double jabbed and have no issues stating this, but the vaccination isn’t mandatory, therefore how can you tell someone they don’t have to get something, and then ban them from doing a whole load of things? Honestly makes no sense and would be an interesting debate regarding Data Protection, showing random stewards/football staff your medical records.

[tonyrougier123]

I had a guy coughing his lungs out behind me the whole game on Saturday.
Of course totally unconcerned about the pandemic and other people around him never once put a mask on.fair enough I have no idea what was wrong with him but sure as u like I would have one on if I had a cough,at least to show some solidarity to folk around in fighting the Covid spread.
My main point is this boy could’ve been double jagged had proof of that but still entered ,coughed all game and spread the virus freely. Enough is enough with all the restrictions to people ,as long as people have no regard for fellow supporters this will remain an issue regardless of vaccination proof.

[hibby rae]

The difference with those vaccinations is the vaccines you get for going to places like India have high death rates. If I was to catch rabies there's a 95% chance I'll die. If I was to catch covid there's around 0.08 chance I will die.

But they are all still highly infectious, hence the restrictions. The chance of death from covid varies from person to person, this is one thing we do know. But there are a lot of things we still don't, like long lasting effects on survivors.

[hibby rae]

I think you are maybe deliberately misunderstanding my point, but I'm not reassured by your take on the future of our society.

Are Polio, MMR and the Flu vaccination edging towards becoming mandatory measures?

I do agree with your point about Covid vaccination being here to stay though.

Have you considered you aren't making your point that well?

No offence but asking 'where will it end?' repeatedly isn't much of an argument.

Especially as you're overlooking the end of emergency powers which the government had. And even then parliament had to approve them.

Restrictions are rolling back, so the opposite of what you fear is actually happening.

[wookie70]

It's not an attack on freedom at all. You are free to not get the vaccine.

If you travel to a lot of countries you have to get a vaccine for many things, you can say no. You just can't go that country. This is no different.

If I chose to not have a vaccine due to health reasons I will be excluded from watching Hibs even if I have a season ticket. Meanwhile those healthy enough to have the vaccine will be allowed to attend. That is nowhere near freedom as far as I am concerned and this is a slippery slope to me especially when you see how quickly citizens are happy to lose freedoms. It is the ID card in another form imo.

This is different to foreign travel. This is our government potentially discriminating against its citizen. totally different to a country making rules for citizens of other countries.

There are worrying signs that the UK governments are going to try and make vaccinations compulsory by stealth by excluding those who don't have them. My daughter who is u18 will not require one. She attends school with hundreds of others, very little signs of social distancing when I see them walking up the road and next to none of them vaccinated. I am double vaccinated, am I more or less likely to pass the virus on that a 16 year old because of a bit of paper. I could extend your argument and say that U18s shouldn't be allowed to attend unless double vaccinated.

[Wakeyhibee]

Which is why I can't see the point. Over 80% of the population have had a vaccine. Over 85% of those over 40 have had both doses. This will make getting in far more time consuming and mean people are actually next to each other longer. This seems like an unnecessary grab of our freedoms and in the greater scheme of things those freedoms have been hugely reduced year on year. I hoped the SG would rise above this but looks like they will fall in with the political flock.

I say that as someone who has had both doses but it will clearly go against equality laws if this is implemented

Agree, it makes no sense to have a 75% full Dens or Tannadice at under 10000 get away with it but a 51% full ER, PBS or Pittodrie has to have it.

It makes no sense to restrict events then they only open selected stands making people sit in closer proximity.

I'm double vaxxed and if I can still catch it and possibly worse pass it on, then why are they allowing full capacities?

Got tickets for the Scotland game on Saturday if this comes in it will be my last for a while. Not because of any freedom issues but because our useless Govs make it more dangerous by saying it's ok if you're double vaxxed but then say you can still catch and pass on to someone vulnerable.

[Sir David Gray]

I think you are maybe deliberately misunderstanding my point, but I'm not reassured by your take on the future of our society.

Are Polio, MMR and the Flu vaccination edging towards becoming mandatory measures?

I do agree with your point about Covid vaccination being here to stay though.

If we were in the middle of a polio, measles, mumps, rubella or flu pandemic then I would expect vaccination against these illnesses to become mandatory measures.

I'm normally very much against state interference in people's lives but we are currently in the midst of a global pandemic with a very real threat of being forced back into restrictions again very soon, I believe this is a good alternative to trying to prevent that from happening.

Once Covid-19 is no longer a danger towards our health service, if people still need to prove they have been vaccinated to get into the football then I'll be at the front of the queue when it comes to protesting against people's civil liberties being breached but at the moment I feel this is a necessary step in trying to maintain the largely restriction-free life we have enjoyed over the last 3 weeks.

[BlackSheep]

Okay, they are effective at reducing illness. But that is about it - they are not making you immune, and you can still get very ill and die, and you are now needing regular boosters.

So they are effective at reducing hospital backlogs - which is good. However, there is no pressure on the NHS these days - it is under control. So I don't see the point in these passports.

Absolute rubbish that there’s no pressure on the NHS…. I have many friends and family who work in the NHS and they’re absolutely swamped!!

[BlackSheep]

You're making a point about your decision to get a flu vaccine and trying to make an analogy with restrictions facing people who choose to be unvaccinated. It's not really the same as the direction of travel were going down with coercive measures and Covid, is it?

It’s not coercive measures….!! It’s for the safety of the many!!

[Glory Lurker]

Scot Gov proposal is that those with unavoidable reasons for not having had their jags will be exempt. Hopefully they will be given a passport,and any chance of unfairness goes away.

Beyond that - nae vacc? Nae fitba. Nae luck.

[CentreLine]

The only pandemic right now is one of hysteria. Let’s see how happy everyone is when you have to take a third jab to be considered vaccinated, as in Israel. Then a fourth?

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear
Now I know you’re only positing this for attention but I’ll bite. Pandemic is where a virus or similar illness is a threat to every person on the planet. The current declared new case rate of circa 750,000 people currently confirmed to have the virus every day is testament to that.
They current declared death rate is over 10,000 soles every day.
So far over 4.5 million people have died and no obvious let up. That’s pandemic.
Endemic is when it becomes a dangerous illness that will cause a tragic but manageable number of serious illnesses and deaths.
This thing is still there and there is a fair chance it is not finished with us yet, here in the UK.
Flippant comments are utterly disrespectful to those that have been seriously ill and especially to those who have lost loved ones to this awful pandemic.

[Bristolhibby]

You're making a point about your decision to get a flu vaccine and trying to make an analogy with restrictions facing people who choose to be unvaccinated. It's not really the same as the direction of travel were going down with coercive measures and Covid, is it?

No, but everything in life is a choice. Choice and consequence.

If this helps people choose to have a vaccine then I’m fine with that.

Vaccine is the only way to get back to normal. They work. If the population needs a nudge then hopefully they take the hint.

J

[Bristolhibby]

Scot Gov proposal is that those with unavoidable reasons for not having had their jags will be exempt. Hopefully they will be given a passport,and any chance of unfairness goes away.

Beyond that - nae vacc? Nae fitba. Nae luck.

This

[easty]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear
Now I know you’re only positing this for attention but I’ll bite. Pandemic is where a virus or similar illness is a threat to every person on the planet. The current declared death rate of circa 750,000 people currently dying every day is testament to that.
So far over 4.5 million people have died and no obvious let up. That’s pandemic.
Endemic is when it becomes a dangerous illness that will cause a tragic but manageable number of serious illnesses and deaths.
This thing is still there and there is a fair chance it is not finished with us yet, here in the UK.
Flippant comments are utterly disrespectful to those that have been seriously ill and especially to those who have lost loved ones to this awful pandemic.

I agree with you, mostly, but there aren’t 750000 people dying a day from it

[Hibee Mac]

Only 51% of 18-29 year olds have have their first dose… this could come into force from next weekend… I can’t see the other 49% getting vaccinated in a week.I'm in that age group myself and there is absolutely no reason for anyone in that age group to have not had your first jab by now. Even disregarding the bookable vaccinations which have been open for months there have also been drop in centres for ages, no appointment required.

Barring some exceptional medical circumstances, the only reason would be if they chose not to have it, in which case I don't think they have any reason to complain.

[May21/05/216]

Does anyone no if it is a free vote in the Parliament if it is then it won't pass but if snp and green party tell there mps to vote for the motion then it will pass

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[Keith_M]

The only pandemic right now is one of hysteria. Let’s see how happy everyone is when you have to take a third jab to be considered vaccinated, as in Israel. Then a fourth?


Is this meant to be a joke?

[easty]

Is this meant to be a joke?

I laughed…

[Jamesie]

It was my choice not to have it and I am happy to live with that rather than do something I am not comfortable with, considering that it wasn't part of the T&C's of entry when I bought it I will be expecting a refund for my season ticket though.

That’s an interesting point that I was just having a look at, purely out of interest. The Season Ticket Terms and Conditions (https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/2021-22-Terms-and-Conditions-Home-STs.pdf) include the following:

14. The Club reserves the right to refuse admission or eject from the stadium and/or withdraw the season ticket from any person at any time, should the person contravene any Ground Regulations.


Now the Ground Regulations may include something along the lines of supporters agreeing to comply with all relevant laws and regulations governing entry to the ground - which would likely (bearing in mind the relevant law has probably not been drafted yet and will only be debated in Holyrood next week) be broad enough to cover the club refusing entry. The trouble is that I can’t find a document titled “Ground Regulations” on the Hibs website. Does it exist online? I can see a couple of images (albeit of only half of the regulations or thereabouts) taken outside the ground, but not the full document.

[CentreLine]

Absolute rubbish that there’s no pressure on the NHS…. I have many friends and family who work in the NHS and they’re absolutely swamped!!

Totally agree and also have relations in NHS. The NHS staff are currently fried and there is no light at the end of the tunnel as it stands.
Added to that, two close relations have just spent several days in hospital and it was patently clear the pressure the staff at the ERI are under.
Utter joke to deny this is happening

[Phil MaGlass]

I know of two brothers that refused to take the jag, one has died two weeks ago, the other has now taken the jag. The one that died has left 2 kids behind, the other brother thinks his daughter gave him it after coming home from school. Folks, just dont refuse it for the sake of refusing it, its a lifesaver.
Christ, most folks dont think twice about taking jags when going to exotic countries.

[Sir David Gray]

Only 51% of 18-29 year olds have have their first dose… this could come into force from next weekend… I can’t see the other 49% getting vaccinated in a week.

51% have had both doses.

All over 18s have been able to get their first dose for over 2 months now so I'd suggest that the majority of the
25.7% of that age group who are still completely unvaccinated just don't want it.

They've certainly had ample opportunity to get their appointment.

[easty]

Those are the figures. My gut feeling is to agree with you. That is only the figure countries are prepared to release. The true figure will be considerably larger than that

A day? That’s not the figures I’ve seen anywhere. Maybe 7500 deaths a day, nowhere near 750000.

[CentreLine]

I know of two brothers that refused to take the jag, one has died two weeks ago, the other has now taken the jag. The one that died has left 2 kids behind, the other brother thinks his daughter gave him it after coming home from school. Folks, just dont refuse it for the sake of refusing it, its a lifesaver.
Christ, most folks dont think twice about taking jags when going to exotic countries.

I was chatting to a person who told me they we’re an intravenous drug user the other day, while leaving a small donation in their cup. I just find it incredibly sad that this person is prepared to inject street sourced drugs in their body but wanted to tell me that it’s not safe to take a covid vaccine and covid is a worldwide hoax.

[CockneyRebel]

I've been abroad a couple of times recently and a screen shot is not an acceptable form of proof. The actual letter is required. Which is a bit of a pain because it now looks like a dog's dinner.

The SG are saying a certificate of vaccination would be required which is what I have. I have no inclination or intention to go abroad so along with photo ID think I should be ok for the events in question. If not then I will have to get the letter.

[CentreLine]

A day? That’s not the figures I’ve seen anywhere. Maybe 7500 deaths a day, nowhere near 750000.

Aaaaaagh. That’s how misinformation get as out there. My sincere apologies, 750,000 is a the number of confirmed news cases every day.
The official number of people dying every day is tragical over 10,000.
I will now amend my previous post with apologies.

[easty]

The SG are saying a certificate of vaccination would be required which is what I have. I have no inclination or intention to go abroad so along with photo ID think I should be ok for the events in question. If not then I will have to get the letter.

A screenshot was fine for me in Antigua. Just came back at the weekend from 2 weeks there.

[easty]

Aaaaaagh. That’s how misinformation get as out there. My sincere apologies, 750,000 is a the number of confirmed news cases every day.
The official number of people dying every day is tragical over 10,000.
I will now amend my previous post with apologies.

Yeh I thought that might be it, 750000 dying a day would be incredibly scary!

[CentreLine]

Yeh I thought that might be it, 750000 dying a day would be incredibly scary!

As is 10,000 a day and that’s only the ones countries are declaring

[wookie70]

Aaaaaagh. That’s how misinformation get as out there. My sincere apologies, 750,000 is a the number of confirmed news cases every day.
The official number of people dying every day is tragical over 10,000.
I will now amend my previous post with apologies.

In terms of a 7 day average the daily death rate hasn't been 10k or over since the start of June and daily cases has started to fall in the uk over the last few days.

[A Hi-Bee]

In terms of a 7 day average the daily death rate hasn't been 10k or over since the start of June and daily cases has started to fall in the uk over the last few days.

Without this turning into a pissing competition as the subject is way too serious for that perhaps the newspaper headline is just false as seen - Covid news – live: UK sees highest daily death toll in months as 500,000 to be offered third vaccine dose LIVE – Updated at 19:00 The UK (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/uk) has recorded 207 new Covid (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/covid)-19 related deaths – the highest number since March.

The total number of people who had died within 28 days of testing positive has reached 132,742.
Separate figures published by the Office for National Statistics (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/office-national-statistics) show there have been 157,000 deaths registered in the UK where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.
The new daily figures come following a bank holiday weekend when there is usually a lag in reporting deaths and cases.
It comes after a new coronavirus strain, named Mu, has been designated a variant of interest by the World Health Organisation (WHO).

Key Points

UK Covid-related death toll highest in six months
Scotland tops list of UK areas with highest Covid rates
Severely immunosuppressed people to be offered third jab
WHO monitoring new variant of interest – called Mu
Scotland’s increased Covid spread ‘extremely concerning’
Scotland plans to bring in vaccine passports for events
Johnson to press ahead with nightclub passports

[wookie70]

Without this turning into a pissing competition





That looks factually correct as is what I posted. I was replying to a post that was factually incorrect and to a poster that stated they didn't want to spread misinformation.

[monarch]

Okay, they are effective at reducing illness. But that is about it - they are not making you immune, and you can still get very ill and die, and you are now needing regular boosters.

So they are effective at reducing hospital backlogs - which is good. However, there is no pressure on the NHS these days - it is under control. So I don't see the point in these passports.

Why are you spouting rubbish that the NHS is under no pressure ?
Who told you this ?
Where did you get that information ?
Don’t you realise that you’re insulting everyone who’s almost at breaking point working for the NHS ?

You’re making things up to suit your agenda.

For your information 9 out of 11 Health Boards in Scotland are on red alert.

[Betty Boop]

I wonder where all this will end?

I'm fully vaccinated, but I'm also deeply concerned about the erosion of freedoms and liberties that we're seeing. I'm massively against coercive approaches to promoting vaccination.

Couldn't agree more.

[CentreLine]

In terms of a 7 day average the daily death rate hasn't been 10k or over since the start of June and daily cases has started to fall in the uk over the last few days.

You accuse me of misinformation? I was more than happy to acknowledge my error in misquoting the recorded v death figure in my first post but I am not about to engage in an unseemly debate over the deaths of individual people being slightly over or under 10,000 people on any individual day. Save to say that over ten thousand people have been officially recorded as having died from covid-19 on enough days this past week to make my point more than valid.
So far today WHO figured are reporting 10,124 individuals have died and the day is not over in a significant part of the world.

UK infection figures have not started to fall in the past few days. Although they may have slowed a little, 35,693 new cases were recorded in the past 24 hrs and that gives a 7 day average of 33,754 daily cases.

207 people died today in the UK having been diagnosed with covid in the past 28 days, against a steadily increasing 7 day average of 106. Scandalously, the UK sits as the country with the 8th highest number of recorded COVID-19 deaths in the world, with 132,742 deaths. Those with higher numbers, in most cases, have significantly larger populations than our own and include:
USA, Brazil, India, Mexico, Peru, Russia and Indonesia.

Yes we now have an effective vaccine programme that our government would like people to concentrate on instead of the desperately tragic numbers.

[Islington Hibs]

Why are you spouting rubbish that the NHS is under no pressure ?
Who told you this ?
Where did you get that information ?
Don’t you realise that you’re insulting everyone who’s almost at breaking point working for the NHS ?

You’re making things up to suit your agenda.

For your information 9 out of 11 Health Boards in Scotland are on red alert.

The whole thing is absurd. No analysis of the other side of the coin from lockdown. Children’s education lost, mental health, economic disaster, impact on elderly from virtual imprisonments, massive reduction in cancer tests.

We need to get on with our lives and simply accept this tragic additional risk. I am double vaccinated but frankly the choice to vaccinate should be a personal one and I do not blame anyone who decides for whatever reason not to and I hope they will not be barred from events. It’s a very slippery slope when you effectively force something.. some people are prepared to take the risk, others understandably take a different view and that’s their call.

I am sure you are right 9 out of 11 NHS trusts may well be on red alert but that’s because they have crashed capacity as a result of the pandemic. It’s a separate debate as to whether that was wise.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Know your legal rights. As I understand it, regulations of the Scottish Parliament do not override the Equalities Act, which is primary legislation. That Act makes it illegal to discriminate on medical grounds. Hibs would be liable for refusing entry on medical grounds. No doubt the legal eagles will clarify.

Incorrect. Westminster passed primary emergency legislation to over-ride existing laws to combat the Pandemic. It was then devolved to Scotland, Wales and NI. Its why we wasted 3 weeks at the start waiting for that useless bin bag full of custard to get of his erchie resulting in a huge number of avoudable deaths.

[Casey1875]

That’s an interesting point that I was just having a look at, purely out of interest. The Season Ticket Terms and Conditions (https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/2021-22-Terms-and-Conditions-Home-STs.pdf) include the following:

14. The Club reserves the right to refuse admission or eject from the stadium and/or withdraw the season ticket from any person at any time, should the person contravene any Ground Regulations.


Now the Ground Regulations may include something along the lines of supporters agreeing to comply with all relevant laws and regulations governing entry to the ground - which would likely (bearing in mind the relevant law has probably not been drafted yet and will only be debated in Holyrood next week) be broad enough to cover the club refusing entry. The trouble is that I can’t find a document titled “Ground Regulations” on the Hibs website. Does it exist online? I can see a couple of images (albeit of only half of the regulations or thereabouts) taken outside the ground, but not the full document.

I would have hoped that as the goalposts have now changed then they would be understanding of cases such as mine, if these were going to be required at the start of the season then I wouldnt have bought one.

I'm also not sure how enforceable these will be as when masks were mandatory you still couldn't ask for proof of exemption.

[flash]

I would have hoped that as the goalposts have now changed then they would be understanding of cases such as mine, if these were going to be required at the start of the season then I wouldnt have bought one.

I'm also not sure how enforceable these will be as when masks were mandatory you still couldn't ask for proof of exemption.
If you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated am sure you will be fine.

[andudare2]

If you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated am sure you will be fine.already confirmed earlier on that this will be the case.

[Ronniekirk]

I have no time whatsoever for anti-vaxxers. unless its medical advice/condition that is reason for not getting vaccinated.

If Joe Bloggs sat next to you has not been jabbed, you ARE in danger of getting infected,as is he of course.

I told here about my pal Davie who passed away last month with the Covid and he had both his jabs(2nd one last May)
Family think his train journey and weekend in London invited the virus
Such a crowded train(few masks) and London during Scotland v England game

I wont go near big gatherings till most if not all have had both jabs

But thats me, being elderly and with underlying medicai conditions.

Sorry to hear about your friend But the whole support could be doubled jabbed and you still get it at the game Hopefully you wouldn’t get seriously ill or end up in hospital but I do know a few people doubled jabbed who have ended up in intensive care and got out with an oxygen tank


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

already confirmed earlier on that this will be the case.

Is it a joined up system where they will know that you have appropriate medical grounds. Is there even a recognised list of conditions where you are deemed exempt. Even then I'm not sure asking someone to prove they have an appropriate illness to be exempt is a job for a steward at a fitba ground.

Doncaster may well actually be useful for once in standing up to the government on this. The question he asked regarding outdoor events not being a major spreader of diseases has to be answered and answered robustly with proof. Why did we fully open up grounds if it was dangerous in the first place.

[Casey1875]

already confirmed earlier on that this will be the case.

Which makes a complete mockery of the whole system, I don't have a medical reason as such for not having it and as I said if that excludes me from society then I will deal with that. Effectively forcing people to have any sort of medication doesn't sit well however. People should be permitted to make their own choice.

[The Spaceman]

If we are only excluding 15% of the population from society who are also those who trust Facebook posts by Karen for their news source/self-certified virologists, that’s fine by me 👍 medical exemptions are a different kettle of fish which of course should be respected.

[Ronniekirk]

Okay, they are effective at reducing illness. But that is about it - they are not making you immune, and you can still get very ill and die, and you are now needing regular boosters.

So they are effective at reducing hospital backlogs - which is good. However, there is no pressure on the NHS these days - it is under control. So I don't see the point in these passports.

Lots of health board are currently not doing routine procedures The Lanarkshire hospital joined a growing list of hospital in the last few weeks
I am currently waiting to go in for a procedure Will be lucky if I get it by next summer at this rate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ronniekirk]

A different point but it’s emerged in the past few weeks that lots of football Professionals are not double jabbed so are they not allowed into the stadium [emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[andudare2]

Is it a joined up system where they will know that you have appropriate medical grounds. Is there even a recognised list of conditions where you are deemed exempt. Even then I'm not sure asking someone to prove they have an appropriate illness to be exempt is a job for a steward at a fitba ground.

Doncaster may well actually be useful for once in standing up to the government on this. The question he asked regarding outdoor events not being a major spreader of diseases has to be answered and answered robustly with proof. Why did we fully open up grounds if it was dangerous in the first place.confirmation is in regards to under 18,s and people who have genuine medical conditions which i would imagine would have to be verified by a GP and not a lanyard anyone can get from Amazon etc.

[Sheep_Nae_Mair]

Have to say, I’ve got some sympathy for people that just don’t want to get it, they don’t need to justify it in my mind, it’s none of my business.

Something I don’t get, and apologies if it’s a stupid question but hopefully someone can answer it for me, I’ve been double jabbed so I’m relatively safe from covid, or as safe as I can be, if joe bloggs sat next to me isn’t double jabbed that’s his concern not mine as he’s the one risking getting ill.

I’m sure that’s a bit simplistic but it’s something I’ve never really got.

Explanations appreciated 😂

You said it yourself - "relatively safe" - but not completely safe. The vaccines are all well short of 100% effectiveness and their effect has been shown to be diminishing over time. So I think it should be your concern as well. As you'll know, most cases are not as bad as they were but people are still dying from it and some (like my 26 year old granddaughter) are suffering from long covid.

[Northernhibee]

Which makes a complete mockery of the whole system, I don't have a medical reason as such for not having it and as I said if that excludes me from society then I will deal with that. Effectively forcing people to have any sort of medication doesn't sit well however. People should be permitted to make their own choice.

You do have a choice, you've decided not to take the vaccine and as such to protect others you're not allowed to go to the football.

[Casey1875]

If we are only excluding 15% of the population from society who are also those who trust Facebook posts by Karen for their news source/self-certified virologists, that’s fine by me 👍 medical exemptions are a different kettle of fish which of course should be respected.


Your disregard for 15% of the population says more about you than them I think. Granted some people will be basing their decision on misinformation but not all.

I guess it is fine until its something that you don't agree with though?

[Casey1875]

You do have a choice, you've decided not to take the vaccine and as such to protect others you're not allowed to go to the football.

Which I have already said is fine, I think it is a bit nonsensical but I'll live with it. I'll not be happy if I don't get my money back however.

[wookie70]

If we are only excluding 15% of the population from society who are also those who trust Facebook posts by Karen for their news source/self-certified virologists, that’s fine by me 👍 medical exemptions are a different kettle of fish which of course should be respected.

That way of thinking goes along with those that say people who smoke, drink, take drugs, are obese etc shouldn't be treated by the NHS. It sounds nothing like a free society to me. You could argue someone who believed some of the nonsense of facebook had a learning difficulty, should we not allow those that struggle cognitively to attend the fitba. Flippant I know but we are getting to the stage where far more people have had the jag than the government ever thought would take it yet that is still not enough and coercion will be used to "encourage" more to take it.

I can imagine an employer asking for proof of vaccination or antibodies for chicken pox from the heavily pregnant lady when there is a case in the office. It wouldn't happen but appropriate information would be divulged and the individual would make their choices aware of the risks. If large 10k plus venues were deemed safe a matter of weeks ago what has changed. The government made a choice, did they get it wrong and have they got the facts to back up this proposed change. If big stadiums are a hotbed for transmission why the hell were they opened in the first place and why the line between 4 and 10k for seated, unseated. Did Jason Leitch pick numbers out the hat or is there evidence to back it up

[Northernhibee]

Which I have already said is fine, I think it is a bit nonsensical but I'll live with it. I'll not be happy if I don't get my money back however.

We've already established that it's your choice to not take the vaccine, so the club shouldn't lose out because of that IMO.

[pedroorange1875]

CAn get into Portugal and have a holiday, but cant get into Easter Road, this is becoming a joke

[Casey1875]

We've already established that it's your choice to not take the vaccine, so the club shouldn't lose out because of that IMO.

Ultimately they will if this comes into place as I won't be in a position to renew it, let's face it these passports won't disappear any time soon, if ever.

[Just Alf]

Do people seriously not understand %'s to the extent that a 60% chance of not getting covid (and passing it on) is better than an almost certain chance of getting covid and almost certainly pass it on?

[JohnM1875]

I might be proper ignorant here, so sorry in advance. But I honestly just don't understand why anyone would actively choose to not to get the vaccine?

The only reasons I ever see are the antivax folk on twitter. So can't really take most of what they say seriously.

But genuinely interested to find out why folk have decided against getting it?

[1875godsgift]

That way of thinking goes along with those that say people who smoke, drink, take drugs, are obese etc shouldn't be treated by the NHS. It sounds nothing like a free society to me. You could argue someone who believed some of the nonsense of facebook had a learning difficulty, should we not allow those that struggle cognitively to attend the fitba. Flippant I know but we are getting to the stage where far more people have had the jag than the government ever thought would take it yet that is still not enough and coercion will be used to "encourage" more to take it.

I can imagine an employer asking for proof of vaccination or antibodies for chicken pox from the heavily pregnant lady when there is a case in the office. It wouldn't happen but appropriate information would be divulged and the individual would make their choices aware of the risks. If large 10k plus venues were deemed safe a matter of weeks ago what has changed. The government made a choice, did they get it wrong and have they got the facts to back up this proposed change. If big stadiums are a hotbed for transmission why the hell were they opened in the first place and why the line between 4 and 10k for seated, unseated. Did Jason Leitch pick numbers out the hat or is there evidence to back it up

It's not really the same though, is it?

If you go to a football match and sit beside somebody who smokes, you're not going to catch lung cancer, sit beside somebody who drinks you won't develop cirrhosis of the liver, or someone who's obese, well first off nae luck but you won't develop it yourself from close contact.

Sit beside someone who has Covid however....

[superfurryhibby]

Lots of health board are currently not doing routine procedures The Lanarkshire hospital joined a growing list of hospital in the last few weeks
I am currently waiting to go in for a procedure Will be lucky if I get it by next summer at this rate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One of the biggest challenges is the significant numbers of staff forced to isolate following a positive test result. Covid isn't draining the NHS of staff, in terms of the numbers of actual covid related hospital admissions, it's a bit more subtle than that.

The whole thing is an almighty mess. There are huge question marks around the efficacy of the tests used, both PCR and LFT, they are being used like a blunt instrument. There is increasing awareness of issues with various vaccines.

If people really want a true picture then they'll have to dig a bit deeper than the BBC news. Blind faith isn't the answer, there is too much at stake.

That isn't a dig at you Ronnie, you are feeling the backlash from what's happening, as are many . I've been waiting for an appointment for a concern for more than six months now. All I want is a ****ing scan. How am I waiting so long!!!.

[Casey1875]

I might be proper ignorant here, so sorry in advance. But I honestly just don't understand why anyone would actively choose to not to get the vaccine?

The only reasons I ever see are the antivax folk on twitter. So can't really take most of what they say seriously.

But genuinely interested to find out why folk have decided against getting it?

I cant speak for anyone else but there are a few reasons I chose not to have it. Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one. I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case. Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity. These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it.

[Bristolhibby]

Do people seriously not understand %'s to the extent that a 60% chance of not getting covid (and passing it on) is better than an almost certain chance of getting covid and almost certainly pass it on?

Tried to make that point in my first post. Also tried to make that point with my Asthmatic mate who refuses to get vaccinated.

I’ve given up now as he’s not for turning.

J

[007]

The unvaccinated are c120 times more likely to die. Doesn't seem worth the risk to me just to prove a point about civil liberties or whatever other reason.

Loads of stories out there about anti vaxxers realising their mistake but it was too late.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/covid-vaccine-us-antivaxx-jab-b1896231.html

24 year old lucky to get a lung transplant and survived.

[tamig]

CAn get into Portugal and have a holiday, but cant get into Easter Road, this is becoming a joke

Very good. A bit light on the detail. What are your entry requirements for getting your holiday in Portugal then?

[tamig]

Do people seriously not understand %'s to the extent that a 60% chance of not getting covid (and passing it on) is better than an almost certain chance of getting covid and almost certainly pass it on?

Folk just turn a blind eye to facts that don’t back up their cause Alf. Rife on this thread.

[wookie70]

It's not really the same though, is it?

If you go to a football match and sit beside somebody who smokes, you're not going to catch lung cancer, sit beside somebody who drinks you won't develop cirrhosis of the liver, or someone who's obese, well first off nae luck but you won't develop it yourself from close contact.

Sit beside someone who has Covid however....

You may go into a hospital triage situation and lose your spot to someone who is ill because of their own actions. You may also sit next to someone at ER with Flu at any time in the last hundred years and that kills you. My argument is about risk, choice and exclusion. You could of course sit next to someone who is double vaccinated who passes Covid on to you too.

[JimBHibees]

Download the NHS app. Your record is there. It even works with Apple wallet now.

J

That's England only

[superfurryhibby]

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/08/covid-19-as-millions-are-vaccinated-adverse-effects-and-virus-variants-cause-concern/?fbclid=IwAR2-zJXsYpJwCmHKApnI68Ym9YauJ9u7evCivKMNnHMUy4ZhqSfEHR _aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

[CentreLine]

Folk just turn a blind eye to facts that don’t back up their cause Alf. Rife on this thread.

Yep. Desperately sad, any spurious point to try and find an angle to argue against vaccines when all of the evidence says the opposite. Don’t want to get a jag? Fine, don’t do it but no need to crow about in in the face of overwhelming evidence that your actions are likely to be harmful to others and to yourself.

[tamig]

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/08/covid-19-as-millions-are-vaccinated-adverse-effects-and-virus-variants-cause-concern/?fbclid=IwAR2-zJXsYpJwCmHKApnI68Ym9YauJ9u7evCivKMNnHMUy4ZhqSfEHR _aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

Over ten times as many vaccines administered as positive cases detected. Those are pretty impressive figures in support of the vaccine I’d suggest. I don’t think that was your intention though.

[pedroorange1875]

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/08/covid-19-as-millions-are-vaccinated-adverse-effects-and-virus-variants-cause-concern/?fbclid=IwAR2-zJXsYpJwCmHKApnI68Ym9YauJ9u7evCivKMNnHMUy4ZhqSfEHR _aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.



Excellent post

[Brummie_Hibs]

What is it that medically except folk have, that means they can attend these events without being vaccinated, that normal people don't have?

Do they have superpowers, are they X-Men?, can't they catch or spread covid?

[CentreLine]

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/08/covid-19-as-millions-are-vaccinated-adverse-effects-and-virus-variants-cause-concern/?fbclid=IwAR2-zJXsYpJwCmHKApnI68Ym9YauJ9u7evCivKMNnHMUy4ZhqSfEHR _aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

In the UK alone just short of 43 million people have received a double dose of vaccine. That number is over 2.1 Trillion globally. Your figures for adverse reactions, which can be anything from very minor to life threatening, and even for those who have tragically died, offer a very strong argument that the benefits of vaccine hugely outweigh the disadvantages.

[easty]

CAn get into Portugal and have a holiday, but cant get into Easter Road, this is becoming a joke

The Scottish government don’t make the rules for entry into Portugal.

[Ronniekirk]

One of the biggest challenges is the significant numbers of staff forced to isolate following a positive test result. Covid isn't draining the NHS of staff, in terms of the numbers of actual covid related hospital admissions, it's a bit more subtle than that.

The whole thing is an almighty mess. There are huge question marks around the efficacy of the tests used, both PCR and LFT, they are being used like a blunt instrument. There is increasing awareness of issues with various vaccines.

If people really want a true picture then they'll have to dig a bit deeper than the BBC news. Blind faith isn't the answer, there is too much at stake.

That isn't a dig at you Ronnie, you are feeling the backlash from what's happening, as are many . I've been waiting for an appointment for a concern for more than six months now. All I want is a ****ing scan. How am I waiting so long!!!.

Agree it’s a mess mate I actually got an M R I Scan fairly quickly and was confirmed I didn’t have cancer
But during lock down symptoms got worse again was seen by nurses at hospital and bloods taken
Got called by Consultant who said we will review you in six months Lost my rag explained my symptoms and he arranged for a wee camera to get put up and have a look inside the bladder
Again after chasing up his secretary she phoned me back with a date fairly quickly
He was then able to see my prostrate was growing into my bladder and I needed a T U R P procedure
I don’t mind sharing this level of detail as it’s important to get the message out there that phone consultations often inhibit some people as they try and close you down so they can phone next patient
Also it’s important to badger the Secretary as they can help get you a cancel appointment which is quicker than waiting
But if they then ain’t doing the operations there is nothing you Or I can do
about that
I have chase up meds as often repeat prescriptions don’t get ordered when you phone in
When you try and physically see a doctor you get fibbed off and it’s phone calls by different doctors no continuity
Patient Care has become secondary to new systems that imo are not for our benefit
Anyway rant over and hope you push and get your scan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

I have an old friend who posts many links like the one you posted. They are all well researched and point to proper evidence. I have read them and also poured over the adverse reaction reports. It all came down to numbers to me. It was far more dangerous to not be vaccinated than it was to get the jab. I decided, at 52 with asthma, to take the vaccine however I will not be pressing my daughter to do the same at 16 year old.

Just like the vaccination I want a bit more proof of why the potential restrictions are being proposed. I certainly wouldn't take the Scottish Government's word on it and I voted for both parties. I also think it says much about how society has changed in the last decade or two in terms of our rights. Citizens seem totally fine with essentially an ID card, perhaps pointing to a medical condition, being needed to get into events and having much of their virtual and real life recorded by Government and big business.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

I have an old friend who posts many links like the one you posted. They are all well researched and point to proper evidence. I have read them and also poured over the adverse reaction reports. It all came down to numbers to me. It was far more dangerous to not be vaccinated than it was to get the jab. I decided, at 52 with asthma, to take the vaccine however I will not be pressing my daughter to do the same at 16 year old.

Just like the vaccination I want a bit more proof of why the potential restrictions are being proposed. I certainly wouldn't take the Scottish Government's word on it and I voted for both parties. I also think it says much about how society has changed in the last decade or two in terms of our rights. Citizens seem totally fine with essentially an ID card, perhaps pointing to a medical condition, being needed to get into events and having much of their virtual and real life recorded by Government and big business.

Got an iPhone? Use Facebook / Instagram / Google? What we are upto is being recorded already.

[easty]

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/08/covid-19-as-millions-are-vaccinated-adverse-effects-and-virus-variants-cause-concern/?fbclid=IwAR2-zJXsYpJwCmHKApnI68Ym9YauJ9u7evCivKMNnHMUy4ZhqSfEHR _aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

Aren’t the disease enhancement claims already being debunked by scientists?

I don’t think I’d use the word “lunatic”, but I do think there is a fringe of society who look to go against “the man”. If the government had always advised against vaccine, that fringe would be claiming we should all get it.

[Bristolhibby]

That's England only

I thought the poster was England based.

J

[HoboHarry]

Got an iPhone? Use Facebook / Instagram / Google? What we are upto is being recorded already.
The use of these forums is entirely the choice of the user and not mandated so not even close to being comparable.

[Rumble de Thump]

The use of these forums is entirely the choice of the user and not mandated so not even close to being comparable.

People can choose to get the vaccine or not. It's not being forced on anyone. I don't think there's ever been a suggestion that it would be.

[CentreLine]

WHO figures show 10,1248 covid deaths so far today (Wednesday). Maybe it’s time for a reality check for the sceptics

[pedroorange1875]

People can choose to get the vaccine or not. It's not being forced on anyone. I don't think there's ever been a suggestion that it would be.

look what starting to happen in the country/world. You are legally correct, but there are other ways to get there and the ramp up is starting

[Rumble de Thump]

look what starting to happen in the country/world. You are legally correct, but there are other ways to get there and the ramp up is starting

I'm just correct.

[007]

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/08/covid-19-as-millions-are-vaccinated-adverse-effects-and-virus-variants-cause-concern/?fbclid=IwAR2-zJXsYpJwCmHKApnI68Ym9YauJ9u7evCivKMNnHMUy4ZhqSfEHR _aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

Article below is by Missouri University's academic medical centre.

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/scary-reports-deaths-following-covid-19-vaccination-arent-what-they-seem

Scary Reports of Deaths Following COVID-19 Vaccination Aren’t What They Seem

You might have seen the headlines on social media.
“COVID-19 Vaccine-Related Fatalities Exceed 6,000.”
“6,000% Increase in Reported Vaccine Deaths 1st Quarter 2021 Compared to 1st Quarter 2020.”
No matter your vaccination status or your feelings about getting the shot, those headlines likely give you pause. Can those numbers be right?

These and similar shocking claims are the latest examples of COVID-19 vaccine misinformation. And as with most misinformation, these statements get traction because they start with a kernel of truth — in this case raw data from a reputable source.

The data and source

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) was established in 1990 as a national early warning system to detect potential safety problems with vaccines. It is managed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
The system allows anyone who has received a vaccine (not just a COVID-19 vaccine) to report “adverse events” (think side effects) that they experience following vaccination. Health care providers are required to submit reports of events that come to their attention even if the events clearly have no relationship to vaccination.

The system serves to alert federal health authorities to potential safety concerns, but it is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a particular problem. All reports to the system are unverified.

Since December 2020, more than 350 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine have been administered in the U.S., and VAERS has received 6,968 reports of death (0.0019%), according to the CDC. (Numbers as of Aug. 26, 2021.)

However, that statistic offers no insight into the cause of death for those people. If a 90-year-old nursing home resident got the vaccine and then died days, weeks or even months later of another ailment, the resident’s death would be reported to VAERS.

The misinformation strategy

Opponents of vaccination use the VAERS numbers in statements that suggest cause-and-effect conclusions. This misinformation then influences some people not to be vaccinated.

In this case, the numbers are correct, but the presumed conclusions are not.

Stevan Whitt, MD, an infectious disease doctor and chief clinical officer at MU Health Care, gets questions about these claims regularly, and he wants people to have the right information.
“This intentional misrepresentation is a powerful tactic to sow confusion among large groups of people,” Whitt said.

To address the misinformation about VAERS, the CDC shares context around adverse events associated with the COVID-19 vaccines and emphasizes that reports of deaths (and other adverse events) do not necessarily mean the vaccines are to blame. “A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines,” the CDC notes.

Meanwhile, what we do know for sure is that more than 38 million U.S. residents have been infected and 600,000 have died from COVID-19, and the vaccine is one of the best tools to slow the spread of the virus and save lives.

[HoboHarry]

I'm just correct.
You aren't correct, you are just taking a while to see the obvious.....

[wookie70]

People can choose to get the vaccine or not. It's not being forced on anyone. I don't think there's ever been a suggestion that it would be.

There is coercion though. You may be excluded from events for not taking it. Someone carrying both a vaccination card and covid will be allowed in but someone with neither a card or the virus won't.

Has the government, for citizens within the UK, ever restricted liberty within our countries on the back of someone making a personal and imo private medical decision.

[Rumble de Thump]

You aren't correct, you are just taking a while to see the obvious.....

No. I am just correct.

[Rumble de Thump]

There is coercion though. You may be excluded from events for not taking it. Someone carrying both a vaccination card and covid will be allowed in but someone with neither a card or the virus won't.

Has the government, for citizens within the UK, ever restricted liberty within our countries on the back of someone making a personal and imo private medical decision.

People can choose to go to events or not to go to events. It's their choice. We have that freedom to choose. There are all sorts of restrictions on attending events to improve health and safety conditions for those who attend. It's nothing new.

[007]

There is coercion though. You may be excluded from events for not taking it. Someone carrying both a vaccination card and covid will be allowed in but someone with neither a card or the virus won't.

Has the government, for citizens within the UK, ever restricted liberty within our countries on the back of someone making a personal and imo private medical decision.

I think Nicola Sturgeon is trying to prevent thousands of deaths which could be avoided. What do you think her motives are?

[1875godsgift]

You may go into a hospital triage situation and lose your spot to someone who is ill because of their own actions. You may also sit next to someone at ER with Flu at any time in the last hundred years and that kills you. My argument is about risk, choice and exclusion. You could of course sit next to someone who is double vaccinated who passes Covid on to you too.

You may go into a hospital triage situation and lose your spot to someone who is ill because of their own actions.

That's very true, that could be through smoking, drinking, skiing, crashing their car, falling off a ladder while painting the ceiling, gang violence, drug abuse, accidental overdose, attempted suicide, where do you draw the line? :dunno: Bearing in mind in certain situations you'd have to draw that line pretty ****ing quickly!

You may also sit next to someone at ER with Flu at any time in the last hundred years and that kills you.

Again, completely true. Covid seems to be transmissible throughout the year, whereas flu tends to be most prevalent in winter, and you can get a flu jab which lessens the likelihood of catching it, but I don't know anything about asymptomatic transmission once vaccinated.

You could of course sit next to someone who is double vaccinated who passes Covid on to you too.

Yet again, you're not wrong! But the evidence points to a majority of the double vaccinated not catching Covid and being less likely to pass it on if they do.
As for risk and choice, I would choose to be seated beside double vaccinated people to reduce the risk to myself, my family and those around me.

[easty]

There is coercion though. You may be excluded from events for not taking it. Someone carrying both a vaccination card and covid will be allowed in but someone with neither a card or the virus won't.

Has the government, for citizens within the UK, ever restricted liberty within our countries on the back of someone making a personal and imo private medical decision.

If you’re 17 and want to go to the pub, the government says no, you have to be 18.

If you’re 15 and want to buy cigarettes, the government says no.

If you want to drive 100 miles across the country in an hour…the government says no.

The government putting rules in place, for the good of society as a whole, isn’t a new thing.

There are already countries in the world you can’t visit without being vaccinated, for things other than covid.

[007]

"Mr Anti-Vax" dies

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-radio-host-who-called-himself-mr-anti-vax-dies-after-covid-19-battle/amp/

[HoboHarry]

No. I am just correct.

Aye ok. Right you are then.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I think Nicola Sturgeon is trying to prevent thousands of deaths which could be avoided. What do you think her motives are?








*awaits the first one to slaver "powwwwwer" it's all about powerrrr honest

[cabbageandribs1875]

Mr Anti-Vax" dies

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-radio-host-who-called-himself-mr-anti-vax-dies-after-covid-19-battle/amp/


coincidence, i just put a link up on the covid thread

[uwxm07]

Wonder if your season ticket could be invalid until you can show your vaccine passport?

Would seem unnecessary to show it every week.

How do you show your vaccine status ? you can’t get it other than by post ( or photocopy someone else’s) cause we insist on being different from rUK rather that use the “oven ready” deal

[uwxm07]

If you’re 17 and want to go to the pub, the government says no, you have to be 18.

If you’re 15 and want to buy cigarettes, the government says no.

If you want to drive 100 miles across the country in an hour…the government says no.

The government putting rules in place, for the good of society as a whole, isn’t a new thing.

There are already countries in the world you can’t visit without being vaccinated, for things other than covid.

Does anyone actually follow these rules and if not what’s the consequences?

[uwxm07]

I think Nicola Sturgeon is trying to prevent thousands of deaths which could be avoided. What do you think her motives are?

Control

[Rumble de Thump]

Does anyone actually follow these rules and if not what’s the consequences?

Everyone knows the answers to these questions. Surely you don't need someone to state the obvious to you.

[pedroorange1875]

Mr Anti-Vax" dies

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-radio-host-who-called-himself-mr-anti-vax-dies-after-covid-19-battle/amp/

There is a massive difference in these folk that are "anti-vax" and spout antecdotal nonsense with social media substance, to the other folks that are uncomfortable with a rushed out emergency "vaccine" (i accept in the US the Pfizer is now an official vaccine) who have various vaccines inside them that are tried and tested properly with decades of data, but yes Mr Anti vax is dead, as are another 2 on the radio from Florida, i can look that up and believe the BBC also along with the very prominent stories of all the other anti vax people that wished they had go tthe vaccine.

On the matter of getting into Easter Road, if all the folks have the vaccine and all the figures are as accurate as the BBC says then why is there a restriction, as the most that will happen is a "mild symptom" period that will not lead to hospital or death

[1875godsgift]

There is a massive difference in these folk that are "anti-vax" and spout antecdotal nonsense with social media substance, to the other folks that are uncomfortable with a rushed out emergency "vaccine" (i accept in the US the Pfizer is now an official vaccine) who have various vaccines inside them that are tried and tested properly with decades of data, but yes Mr Anti vax is dead, as are another 2 on the radio from Florida, i can look that up and believe the BBC also along with the very prominent stories of all the other anti vax people that wished they had go tthe vaccine.

On the matter of getting into Easter Road, if all the folks have the vaccine and all the figures are as accurate as the BBC says then why is there a restriction, as the most that will happen is a "mild symptom" period that will not lead to hospital or death

:brickwall The most severe thing that can happen is DEATH. Either to yourself or someone you pass the virus onto.

Double vaccinated people are less likely to catch the virus, less likely to spread it and less likely to be hospitalised, but if they catch it there is a possibility they will DIE.

Unvaccinated people are more likely to catch the virus, more likely to spread it, have a higher likelihood of hospitalisation and of DYING.

[007]

There is a massive difference in these folk that are "anti-vax" and spout antecdotal nonsense with social media substance, to the other folks that are uncomfortable with a rushed out emergency "vaccine" (i accept in the US the Pfizer is now an official vaccine) who have various vaccines inside them that are tried and tested properly with decades of data, but yes Mr Anti vax is dead, as are another 2 on the radio from Florida, i can look that up and believe the BBC also along with the very prominent stories of all the other anti vax people that wished they had go tthe vaccine.

On the matter of getting into Easter Road, if all the folks have the vaccine and all the figures are as accurate as the BBC says then why is there a restriction, as the most that will happen is a "mild symptom" period that will not lead to hospital or death

A lot of those people are probably uncomfortable because they believe stuff they've read on Facebook which has likely been spread by Russian disinformation farms or something similar. There is plenty of information available explaining how scientists were able to develop vaccines for COVID-19 at a much faster pace.

For some bizarre reason a lot of people readily believe what they read on Facebook from an unknown source don't believe some of the most qualified people on virology on the planet when they appear on national TV.

You said "if all the folks have the vaccine and all the figures are as accurate as the BBC says then why is there a restriction, as the most that will happen is a "mild symptom" period that will not lead to hospital or death"

That doesn't make sense. You are asking if all the folks have the vaccine then why the restriction?

[neil7908]

I'm not sure why this is controversial at all. We have a left leaning Govt in Scotland, right wing in the UK, and centrist in France all adopting similar measures. And that's just off the top of my head. That tells me there is a broad, well understood scientific basis for this given its attracted action from politicians across the political spectrum.

Ultimately its the same any discourse about freedoms - your freedom ends at the point it starts to infringe on mine. You can't shout fire in a crowded theatre as it it could lead to a panic, stampede etc and hurt others. This is no different. Why should you be able to enjoy life as normal when you are at greater risk of causing serous hurt or death to others.

The other thing that strikes me is how many people not taking the vaccine say "but I've had covid and been fine etc". That sums it up for me. Great for you, not so great for others.

All the slippery slope stuff falls under the slippery slope fallacy. There is no credible evidence Govts are doing this for any other reason. Just saying "ah but what if" isn't a cohesive argument, and can be used against any change.

I would extend the vaccine passport to any non essential indoor venue including pubs, restaurants and cafes but this is probably a reasonable start. I think more will be needed though as we go into winter.

[JimBHibees]

I thought the poster was England based.

J

Apologies :aok:

[Bristolhibby]

There is coercion though. You may be excluded from events for not taking it. Someone carrying both a vaccination card and covid will be allowed in but someone with neither a card or the virus won't.

Has the government, for citizens within the UK, ever restricted liberty within our countries on the back of someone making a personal and imo private medical decision.

I’d never been in a National lockdown until last March.

The rule book is out the window now. These are changed times.

J

[Brightside]

I cant speak for anyone else but there are a few reasons I chose not to have it. Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one. I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case. Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity. These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it.

Getting Covid doesn’t make you immune. The jab is no different to the flu jab. It’s to protect you but it’s not 100%. Just like the flu. I know people that have been positive for Covid 3 times now. You have no medical reason for not getting the jab so why not get it. Also did your parents not bother with MMR jabs for you. Or if you have kids did you not bother with that either?

[flash]

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/08/covid-19-as-millions-are-vaccinated-adverse-effects-and-virus-variants-cause-concern/?fbclid=IwAR2-zJXsYpJwCmHKApnI68Ym9YauJ9u7evCivKMNnHMUy4ZhqSfEHR _aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

I don't doubt your figures but, to add perspective, there were no deaths in England in July as a result of being vaccinated. (Source: ONS)
If we didn't have access to jabs am sure the death toll would have been pretty gruesome and we would probably still be heavily restricted.
I assume most people who get seriously ill or even die after taking the vaccine have underlying issues which might not even have been flagged up beforehand.
Having said all that I don't agree with compulsory vaccination but do accept that if you choose not to get it then there may be consequences.

[Tambo]

So when do we expect an announcement? English based hibee here looking to come up at the end of the month for the St Johnstone game but not booking it if I can't get in. Can't justify the price not to see the hibees.

[Sir David Gray]

So when do we expect an announcement? English based hibee here looking to come up at the end of the month for the St Johnstone game but not booking it if I can't get in. Can't justify the price not to see the hibees.

It's to be debated in parliament next week and will come into effect later this month.

I'd think it should be in place by the St Johnstone game, barring any unforeseen circumstances.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/08/covid-19-as-millions-are-vaccinated-adverse-effects-and-virus-variants-cause-concern/?fbclid=IwAR2-zJXsYpJwCmHKApnI68Ym9YauJ9u7evCivKMNnHMUy4ZhqSfEHR _aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

You really need to change the media you read because that is bat **** crazy. Changing dna 😆 rna has been studied for 30 years and it's great it works so well, there is now a hiv vaccine that uses rna that has a lot of hope.

Of the million plus side affects that can include headache fatigue and tiredness. There has never been a more closely studied vaccine in history. They took their time but now has full approval in the US for example, its anything but experimental. Its estimated the roll out has already saved more than 100,000 lives in the UK alone so far.

Get vaccinated tell your friends to get vaccinated, if they don't you can tell them how the hibs game went whilst they were at IKEA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5a6bc8d2-62cd-4470-8a42-5ebb054c6ae3

[Stairway 2 7]

So when do we expect an announcement? English based hibee here looking to come up at the end of the month for the St Johnstone game but not booking it if I can't get in. Can't justify the price not to see the hibees.

English app will work to get you in, just like it does in the eu

[mcohibs]

I cant speak for anyone else but there are a few reasons I chose not to have it. Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one. I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case. Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity. These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it.

Jesus christ man

[Dashing Bob S]

Joe Bloggs by not getting vaccinated could be incubating a super strain of Covid (call it Theta).

Theta is resistant to vaccines and is hyper transmittable. You would be Donald ducked.

The less hosts Covid has, the smaller the opportunity it has to mutate.

Having Vaccine passports is a step to “incentivise” people to get the jags and prevent mutations.

J

Evidence suggests the virus mutates more amongst vaccinated populations as it has to, being blocked by the vaccinated host. So the unvaccinated are possibly in greater danger from the vaccinated rather than the other way around.

[neil7908]

Evidence suggests the virus mutates more amongst vaccinated populations as it has to, being blocked by the vaccinated host. So the unvaccinated are possibly in greater danger from the vaccinated rather than the other way around.

What evidence are you referring to? Everything I have read suggests that the more virus in circulation, the higher chances of mutation. And although vaccines don't entirely stop transmission, they greatly reduce it.

[Dashing Bob S]

Jesus christ man

The recent mass Israeli study which received global publicity (outside of the UK) suggested that antibodies from having had Covid were thirteen times more likely to give protection from it than any vaccine. So his approach is a sensible one, provided he has regular antibody tests every few months to ensure they are still in his system. If they are he should stay as he is. If not, he should get vaccinated.

[Zambernardi1875]

Getting Covid doesn’t make you immune. The jab is no different to the flu jab. It’s to protect you but it’s not 100%. Just like the flu. I know people that have been positive for Covid 3 times now. You have no medical reason for not getting the jab so why not get it. Also did your parents not bother with MMR jabs for you. Or if you have kids did you not bother with that either?

I think the difference for him is, you’re not forced to get the flu jab to go to the football even though you can pass that on also... you also mentioned players haven’t got fully vaccinated. Is there a lot to you’re knowledge that haven’t?

[Casey1875]

Getting Covid doesn’t make you immune. The jab is no different to the flu jab. It’s to protect you but it’s not 100%. Just like the flu. I know people that have been positive for Covid 3 times now. You have no medical reason for not getting the jab so why not get it. Also did your parents not bother with MMR jabs for you. Or if you have kids did you not bother with that either?

Without wanting to sound like a dick, you have no clue what you are talking about. The jag is used to create an immune response in your body so having the jag and getting covid both give you the same protection.


How long were mmr vaccines tested prior to being rolled out?

[Casey1875]

Jesus christ man

What exactly is so outrageous about any of they reasons?

[nonshinyfinish]

What is it that medically except folk have, that means they can attend these events without being vaccinated, that normal people don't have?

Do they have superpowers, are they X-Men?, can't they catch or spread covid?

The difference is that there are far fewer of them.

This post, along with the earlier one where you said…


Vaccinated people apparently don't get ill as much. So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you.

…both suggest you're looking at this from an all-or-nothing point of view – either the vaccine 100% prevents infection or it has zero effect on infection, either everyone in the ground needs to be vaccinated or no one does. But that's not how any of this works, no measure is going to be 100% successful, it's all about percentages and reduction of risk.

The vaccine reduces (without completely preventing) your risk of infection, so you're more likely to be infected by an unvaccinated person sitting next to you. If you are infected by the person next to you, the vaccine means it's unlikely that you'll get seriously ill or die, but it doesn't make it impossible.

A higher rate of infection in the population increases the chance of a dangerous mutation emerging – more people being vaccinated (and therefore having a lower chance of catching and passing on covid) contributes to reducing infection rate.

Medically exempt people are presumably a very small percentage, so their contribution to increasing the risk of spreading infection is small. Of course if the government wanted to reduce the risk of large-scale events as far as possible, they wouldn't allow medical exemptions, but that (rightly) would be deemed socially unacceptable. Likewise, if the government truly wanted to reduce the risk as far as possible, we would hardly have left the house at all since March last year.

All of these measures are a balancing act between reducing risk and allowing normal life to continue. You may think that the wrong balance has been struck, but looking at every measure in binary, all-or-nothing terms doesn't reflect reality.

[hibby rae]

What exactly is so outrageous about any of they reasons?

Probably the experimental bit for one. It's been well documented how the vaccine was created, and how they achieved it in the time they did.

Also, the reliance on having had covid to give you immunity. Evidence suggests short-term immunity. I've had covid too, I realise I will have had short-term immunity. But I'm getting my second jab today.

Your other option is to lose your immunity, get covid again, then be immune for a while, then repeat until you run out of luck.

[Moulin Yarns]

Without wanting to sound like a dick, you have no clue what you are talking about. The jag is used to create an immune response in your body so having the jag and getting covid both give you the same protection.


How long were mmr vaccines tested prior to being rolled out?

The length of time for testing vaccine is irrelevant, but the quantity of tests will be about the same. The covid vaccine was already in development due to the Sars outbreak a while ago and was speeded up with money being poured into developing it.

[007]

I cant speak for anyone else but there are a few reasons I chose not to have it. Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one. I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case. Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity. These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it.

= I'm all right Jack. Everyone else can do one.

You're claim it isn't a vaccine is a lie. How does still being able to catch it mean it isn't a vaccine?

Total fabrication by you about it being experimental.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines-idUSL1N2M70MW

Sounds like you're another who has been brainwashed into believing Facebook disinformation.

[Brightside]

I think the difference for him is, you’re not forced to get the flu jab to go to the football even though you can pass that on also... you also mentioned players haven’t got fully vaccinated. Is there a lot to you’re knowledge that haven’t?

Yes. Hence why they were all invited to a meeting with government advisors to try and persuade them to stop reading crap off Facebook and go and get jabbed. The clubs aren’t allowed to force it on them and the majority do not have 2 jabs!!

[Brightside]

Without wanting to sound like a dick, you have no clue what you are talking about. The jag is used to create an immune response in your body so having the jag and getting covid both give you the same protection.


How long were mmr vaccines tested prior to being rolled out?

I have far more of a clue than you based on your posts on this subject. No one that has had Covid have been advised that they don’t need the jab. If you don’t want one for your hooky ideas that’s fine. Just don’t come to football or public events.

[superfurryhibby]

You really need to change the media you read because that is bat **** crazy. Changing dna 😆 rna has been studied for 30 years and it's great it works so well, there is now a hiv vaccine that uses rna that has a lot of hope.

Of the million plus side affects that can include headache fatigue and tiredness. There has never been a more closely studied vaccine in history. They took their time but now has full approval in the US for example, its anything but experimental. Its estimated the roll out has already saved more than 100,000 lives in the UK alone so far.

Get vaccinated tell your friends to get vaccinated, if they don't you can tell them how the hibs game went whilst they were at IKEA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5a6bc8d2-62cd-4470-8a42-5ebb054c6ae3

Is the W.H.O mainstream enough for you?

No need to be such a tool about your reply either, I'm already vaccinated and my pals are able enough to think for themselves. You should try it sometime yourself.

Recently, a radically new approach to vaccination has been developed. It involves the direct introduction into appropriate tissues of a plasmid containing the DNA sequence encoding the antigen(s) against which an immune response is sought, and relies on the in situ production of the target antigen. This approach offers a number of potential advantages over traditional approaches, including the stimulation of both B- and T-cell responses, improved vaccine stability, the absence of any infectious agent and the relative ease of large-scale manufacture. As proof of the principle of DNA vaccination, immune responses in animals have been obtained using genes from a variety of infectious agents, including influenza virus, hepatitis B virus, human immunodeficiency virus, rabies virus, lymphocytic chorio-meningitis virus, malarial parasites and mycoplasmas. In some cases, protection from disease in animals has also been obtained. However, the value and advantages of DNA vaccines must be assessed on a case-by-case basis and their applicability will depend on the nature of the agent being immunized against, the nature of the antigen and the type of immune response required for protection.

The field of DNA vaccination is developing rapidly. Vaccines currently being developed use not only DNA, but also include adjuncts that assist DNA to enter cells, target it towards specific cells, or that may act as adjuvants in stimulating or directing the immune response. Ultimately, the distinction between a sophisticated DNA vaccine and a simple viral vector may not be clear. Many aspects of the immune response generated by DNA vaccines are not understood. However, this has not impeded significant progress towards the use of this type of vaccine in humans, and clinical trials have begun.

The first such vaccines licensed for marketing are likely to use plasmid DNA derived from bacterial cells. In future, others may use RNA or may use complexes of nucleic acid molecules and other entities. These guidelines address the production and control of vaccines based on plasmid DNA intended for use in humans. The purpose of these guidelines is to indicate:

appropriate methods for the production and control of plasmid DNA vaccines; and
specific information that should be included in submissions by manufacturers to national control authorities in support of applications for the authorization of clinical trials and marketing.
It is recognized that the development and application of nucleic acid vaccines are evolving rapidly. Thus, their control should be approached in a flexible manner so that it can be modified as experience is gained in production and use. The intention of these guidelines is to provide a scientifically sound basis for the production and control of DNA vaccines intended for use in humans, and to assure their consistent ssafety and efficacy. Individual countries may wish to use these guidelines to develop their own national guidelines for DNA vaccines

Vaccine Quality
Related Health Topics
Treatments: drugs, medicines and procedures
Biologicals
Prevention & Safety
Vaccines and immunization
https://www.who.int/teams/health-product-policy-and-standards/standards-and-specifications/vaccines-quality/dna

[blackpoolhibs]

If we are only excluding 15% of the population from society who are also those who trust Facebook posts by Karen for their news source/self-certified virologists, that’s fine by me 👍 medical exemptions are a different kettle of fish which of course should be respected.

Not for me, i know it's harsh, but why should they be exempt?

[Ronniekirk]

I know a few people that won’t get the vaccine They are mostly people who are into alternative lifestyles and simply believe Thier immune system and vitamins herbal medicines will protect them
But a lot are called Light Workers with Spiritual connections Some are clearly ant any vaccine but others just say if it’s proven after the trials the vaccine works they would take it if still needed
None of the people I know have been ill and none of Thier family have been ill
Would be interested to know why so
Many footballers haven’t taken the jab





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Casey1875]

= I'm all right Jack. Everyone else can do one.

You're claim it isn't a vaccine is a lie. How does still being able to catch it mean it isn't a vaccine?

Total fabrication by you about it being experimental.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines-idUSL1N2M70MW

Sounds like you're another who has been brainwashed into believing Facebook disinformation.


Please go and Google dictionary definition of a vaccine and then come back and tell me how it is a vaccine.

Its certainly not a case of im alright Jack, I've worn a mask/sanitised throughout. Your reaction is part of what is talked about earlier making out anyone with a different thought process is a nutter.

I have a degree in the subject and have made my choice based on my knowledge, you think I'm wrong fine.

[Just_Jimmy]

I thought the poster was England based.

JI am. Cheers.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Casey1875]

I have far more of a clue than you based on your posts on this subject. No one that has had Covid have been advised that they don’t need the jab. If you don’t want one for your hooky ideas that’s fine. Just don’t come to football or public events.

Explain to me how the jag will give a different type of immunity to actually having it then please. You do know what was in the jag and provides the reaction yeah?

[easty]

Please go and Google dictionary definition of a vaccine and then come back and tell me how it is a vaccine.

Its certainly not a case of im alright Jack, I've worn a mask/sanitised throughout. Your reaction is part of what is talked about earlier making out anyone with a different thought process is a nutter.

I have a degree in the subject and have made my choice based on my knowledge, you think I'm wrong fine.

Whats your degree? What do you do for work? Why are your peers (the vast vast majority) disagreeing with you?

[Andy74]

Amazing how many people still think that the vaccine can’t stop you getting Covid. There’s a big difference between not being 100% effective at doing it and not doing it at all.

[portyfelly]

https://fb.watch/7MhJ3UsXsH/

https://fb.watch/7MhPsr49xd/

[wookie70]

I know a few people that won’t get the vaccine They are mostly people who are into alternative lifestyles and simply believe Thier immune system and vitamins herbal medicines will protect them
But a lot are called Light Workers with Spiritual connections Some are clearly ant any vaccine but others just say if it’s proven after the trials the vaccine works they would take it if still needed
None of the people I know have been ill and none of Thier family have been ill
Would be interested to know why so
Many footballers haven’t taken the jab





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know a girl who is the same. She is into yoga etc and her and lots of her friends have had Covid with hardly any ill effects. Her friends who have had vaccines have all been more ill than those who haven't. All anecdotal but it is fairly clear the fitter and stronger you are the less likely that you will suffer major consequences. Her friends all eat very well and are fit and take wellbeing very seriously. They have made an educated choice and not taken the vaccine. I respect them for than particularly as the girl I know has already had the virus and built up immunity. As a fat 50 odd year old I took the vaccine.

If this is all about safety then everyone who hasn't had two jags should not be allowed to attend regardless of age or medical status.

[Casey1875]

Whats your degree? What do you do for work? Why are your peers (the vast vast majority) disagreeing with you?

Forensic biology, granted not virology however enough to understand the processes of the body pretty well. I do not work in a lab which I am guessing is your point, to make my thoughts on the matter irrelevant. There are not a great deal of peer reviewed papers out there regarding the protection given by natural immunity v those who have had the jags. Once there is my position may change. I'm taking part in the trial looking at the antibodies just now and again the results of that might change my mind.

People have got things wrong in the past and I would rather wait on more information before making this choice.

[neil7908]

I know a girl who is the same. She is into yoga etc and her and lots of her friends have had Covid with hardly any ill effects. Her friends who have had vaccines have all been more ill than those who haven't. All anecdotal but it is fairly clear the fitter and stronger you are the less likely that you will suffer major consequences. Her friends all eat very well and are fit and take wellbeing very seriously. They have made an educated choice and not taken the vaccine. I respect them for than particularly as the girl I know has already had the virus and built up immunity. As a fat 50 odd year old I took the vaccine.

If this is all about safety then everyone who hasn't had two jags should not be allowed to attend regardless of age or medical status.

But its not about their health. It's about the health of others. This "I'm alright Jack" stuff keeps coming up. They will almost certainly be fine (although they have less chance of issues if vaccinated).

They are putting others at greater risk by not getting it.

[mcohibs]

What exactly is so outrageous about any of they reasons?

I mean literally all of it...

"Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one." It is by definition a vaccine - 'a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease.'

"I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case". Well done you, great foresight.

"Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity." I'm sure those that are most are risk are delighted that you've taken such a well informed decision to not give a **** about them.

"These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it." Stay off of Facebook mate.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Double vaccinated myself but don't like the idea of a two tier society with people being shut out.