Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

[007]

This is my point here. Replies to the post have assumed I have not been vaccinated . I might have and if so I will trust the vaccine , just like flu vaccine to minimise the risk here and hopefully should I sometime catch Covid hopefully it will give me enough protection to not get seriously ill. Therefore it is no concern to me whether the person sitting next to me has been vaccinated. If I haven’t as an adult I am aware of the risks and prepared to accept them. The person sitting next to me would not be at any more risk than a vaccinated person sitting next to them. The choice is entirely my business and no Government should be given the powers to stop anyone from watching the Hibs or going to a public event. Their actions here are no more than emotional blackmail .

Initially you sound like you don't even know whether or not you've had the vaccine (something strange there). You then carry on with you cryptic wording which I'd put money on is because you've not been vaccinated but have had Covid and you believe natural immunity is as good as having been vaccinated.

[Block]

Unfortunately there's enough people who are currently not fully vaccinated for there to be a problem (over 400,000 people in Scotland over 16 who are still without any dose at all and a further 370,000+ people who only have partial protection with one dose).

We are seeing that just now in the hospital numbers which have trebled in the space of the last 3 weeks and we now have almost 1,000 people in hospital who have tested positive for Covid-19 in the past 28 days.

We need to do something to keep us out of lockdown as that's the way it's currently heading. If anything this passport isn't going far enough and should also include indoor venues like pubs and restaurants.

How many more lockdowns do we need to finally determine that they are completely useless and wreck economies, livelihoods and young folks futures?

We have to 'live' with this virus. I'm fully vaccinated but cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would call for more lockdowns.

If there is another lockdown I will not be obeying it as I've had it with lockdowns.

[greenginger]

Initially you sound like you don't even know whether or not you've had the vaccine (something strange there). You then carry on with you cryptic wording which I'd put money on is because you've not been vaccinated but have had Covid and you believe natural immunity is as good as having been vaccinated.

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

Having had covid does give a stronger immunity than the vaccine.

Trouble is, you’ve got to survive it first .

[Eyrie]

How many more lockdowns do we need to finally determine that they are completely useless and wreck economies, livelihoods and young folks futures?

We have to 'live' with this virus. I'm fully vaccinated but cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would call for more lockdowns.

If there is another lockdown I will not be obeying it as I've had it with lockdowns.

How many deaths from Covid would you consider acceptable if people ignore lockdowns?

[Rumble de Thump]

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

Having had covid does give a stronger immunity than the vaccine.

Trouble is, you’ve got to survive it first .

It's also one study. Other research has suggested the opposite.

[Block]

How many deaths from Covid would you consider acceptable if people ignore lockdowns?

Bizarre question imo. Lockdown after lockdown has been shown to be a complete failure.

We need to 'live' with this virus not become prisoners of it, imo.

[Stairway 2 7]

How many more lockdowns do we need to finally determine that they are completely useless and wreck economies, livelihoods and young folks futures?

We have to 'live' with this virus. I'm fully vaccinated but cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would call for more lockdowns.

If there is another lockdown I will not be obeying it as I've had it with lockdowns.

If pubs and non essential shops are closed till no be going in them. If it wasn't for lockdowns 3 times the estimated 150,000 would have died, if a third of the population roughly caught it. Millions would have needed hospital treatment and it would all be at once last spring. They wouldn't all have got treatment so that number of deaths world be higher.

Lockdowns work until everyone gets vaccinated. If every adult got vaccinated there would never be the threat of lockdown again with this

[Stokesy's on fire]

Think there is a fair whiff of attention seeking going on with that poster. Best ignored at least until they’ve reached secondary school age

Ouch...

[Rumble de Thump]

Bizarre question imo. Lockdown after lockdown has been shown to be a complete failure.

We need to 'live' with this virus not become prisoners of it, imo.

Every 'lockdown' has been the opposite of a failure. It's reduced the rate of infection. Less people have died. We have been living with the virus and we continue to do so.

[Block]

Every 'lockdown' has been the opposite of a failure. It's reduced the rate of infection. Less people have died. We have been living with the virus and we continue to do so.

I would surmise plenty have died because of lockdowns. Sufferers of all types of conditions have been failed due to lockdowns and medical negligence.

I am done with lockdowns. They are a complete and utter failure and not only that destroy economies, livelihoods and young folks futures.

We have to allow folk to live their lives not lock them down every few weeks or months eternally.

[Rumble de Thump]

I would surmise plenty have died because of lockdowns. Sufferers of all types of conditions have been failed due to lockdowns and medical negligence.

I am done with lockdowns. They are a complete and utter failure and not only that destroy economies, livelihoods and young folks futures.

We have to allow folk to live their lives not lock them down every few weeks or months eternally.

What do you actually mean by 'lockdown'? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. I'm not sure I really understand the comment about medical negligence. I have a lot of family members who work for the NHS. Most of them have contracted the virus at work. Some have long covid. They've all been pushed to breaking point.

[bringbackbenny]

I would surmise plenty have died because of lockdowns. Sufferers of all types of conditions have been failed due to lockdowns and medical negligence.

I am done with lockdowns. They are a complete and utter failure and not only that destroy economies, livelihoods and young folks futures.

We have to allow folk to live their lives not lock them down every few weeks or months eternally.

Can you give a number for 'the plenty' who have died (indirectly or directly) as a consequence of lockdowns, UK or Scotland?

[Sir David Gray]

How many more lockdowns do we need to finally determine that they are completely useless and wreck economies, livelihoods and young folks futures?

We have to 'live' with this virus. I'm fully vaccinated but cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would call for more lockdowns.

If there is another lockdown I will not be obeying it as I've had it with lockdowns.

I'm certainly not calling for more lockdowns but that's undoubtedly where we are heading right now.

As someone who is fully vaccinated I also have no intentions of complying with any restrictions that I have control over such as meeting friends and family and travelling around the country. However there are restrictions I would have no option but to follow such as no football, pubs or restaurants etc.

For me we need to protect the civil liberties of the 3.7 million people over 16 who have chosen to get fully vaccinated as well as the nation's children who are relying on the adults to do their bit on their behalf in order to avoid any further disruption to their education. If that means that the minority can't do certain things for a period of time then so be it.

Whilst we have nearly 800,000 eligible people not fully vaccinated it's simply not possible for everyone to go back to a pre-Covid way of life, the escalating hospital numbers make that clear. So therefore we have two options;

1- Either we close everything down like we did last year and inconvenience everyone and anger the majority who did their bit by going to get two jabs.

OR

2- We keep everything open but allow only fully vaccinated people into certain venues and recognise they have done their bit and are at much lower risk of becoming seriously ill if they happen to catch it.

I think 2 is much more palatable than 1 and we need to do everything possible to ensure a further full lockdown is an absolute last resort.

[Block]

What do you actually mean by 'lockdown'? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. I'm not sure I really understand the comment about medical negligence. I have a lot of family members who work for the NHS. Most of them have contracted the virus at work. Some have long covid. They've all been pushed to breaking point.

There is a multitude of patients waiting for either diagnosis and treatment or both because of lockdowns. Some have died waiting on them. Would you disagree with that?

[Jones28]

This is my point here. Replies to the post have assumed I have not been vaccinated . I might have and if so I will trust the vaccine , just like flu vaccine to minimise the risk here and hopefully should I sometime catch Covid hopefully it will give me enough protection to not get seriously ill. Therefore it is no concern to me whether the person sitting next to me has been vaccinated. If I haven’t as an adult I am aware of the risks and prepared to accept them. The person sitting next to me would not be at any more risk than a vaccinated person sitting next to them. The choice is entirely my business and no Government should be given the powers to stop anyone from watching the Hibs or going to a public event. Their actions here are no more than emotional blackmail .

It’s a public health concern, it’s very much the business of the government.

[Block]

I'm certainly not calling for more lockdowns but that's undoubtedly where we are heading right now.

As someone who is fully vaccinated I also have no intentions of complying with any restrictions that I have control over such as meeting friends and family and travelling around the country. However there are restrictions I would have no option but to follow such as no football, pubs or restaurants etc.

For me we need to protect the civil liberties of the 3.7 million people over 16 who have chosen to get fully vaccinated as well as the nation's children who are relying on the adults to do their bit on their behalf in order to avoid any further disruption to their education. If that means that the minority can't do certain things for a period of time then so be it.

Whilst we have nearly 800,000 eligible people not fully vaccinated it's simply not possible for everyone to go back to a pre-Covid way of life, the escalating hospital numbers make that clear. So therefore we have two options;

1- Either we close everything down like we did last year and inconvenience everyone and anger the majority who did their bit by going to get two jabs.

OR

2- We keep everything open but allow only fully vaccinated people into certain venues and recognise they have done their bit and are at much lower risk of becoming seriously ill if they happen to catch it.

I think 2 is much more palatable than 1 and we need to do everything possible to ensure a further full lockdown is an absolute last resort.

Neither of your options are palatable imo.

Lockdowns = Failed.

Ineffectual Passports = Failed.

Imo

[wookie70]

Did you miss the fact that most smart phones have QR readers.

The information in the QR code will be read easily and give the steward your name, age and date of vaccine (probably the version of vaccine as well) I don't think any new equipment is required.

I easily got a QR code for my website. Any smart phone can read it and be taken straight to the website.

Rocket science it is not.

I'm presuming GDPR will apply given it is a medical record. I can just imagine a GP standing in the waiting room full of patients bleeping your health record on a mobile. I'm sure that is GDPR compliant

[007]

Neither of your options are palatable imo.

Lockdowns = Failed.

Ineffectual Passports = Failed.

Imo

What is your solution to the problem?

[Sir David Gray]

Neither of your options are palatable imo.

Lockdowns = Failed.

Ineffectual Passports = Failed.

Imo

With the way things are heading, continuing with the status quo and allowing unvaccinated people to do what they want is going to end up collapsing the health service within the next few months.

Having vaccine passports is far from ideal but it's the least worst option right now.

[Rumble de Thump]

There is a multitude of patients waiting for either diagnosis and treatment or both because of lockdowns. Some have died waiting on them. Would you disagree with that?

Did you give your definition of lockdown? I haven't seen the stats you must have seen, so I don't know how that would compare to the lives that would have been lost or badly impacted without any kind of restrictions. How many is a multitude? I'm not sure how I could agree or disagree with vague statements.

[Block]

What is your solution to the problem?

Lockdowns and Passports are obviously sticking plaster solutions that destroy economies, livelihoods and youngsters futures.

Very simplistically have to rely upon vaccines and medical solutions to solve a medical problem.

Just like the plague we have to rely on medical science to solve the science behind it.

In the meantime we have to live with this virus without secondary destroying economies, livelihoods and young folks futures.

Lockdowns don't work neither will medical passports.

[Stairway 2 7]

There is a multitude of patients waiting for either diagnosis and treatment or both because of lockdowns. Some have died waiting on them. Would you disagree with that?

Nonsense the hospitals didn't lock down they were full with covid patients, they would have been overwhelmed if it wasn't for lockdowns

[neil7908]

There is a multitude of patients waiting for either diagnosis and treatment or both because of lockdowns. Some have died waiting on them. Would you disagree with that?

"multitude" and "some" are striking in the above. So you don't have any actual data?

[Block]

Did you give your definition of lockdown? I haven't seen the stats you must have seen, so I don't know how that would compare to the lives that would have been lost or badly impacted without any kind of restrictions. How many is a multitude? I'm not sure how I could agree or disagree with vague statements.

You've lost me so not surprised you're not sure about much Mr Fezziwig.

[Rumble de Thump]

I'm presuming GDPR will apply given it is a medical record. I can just imagine a GP standing in the waiting room full of patients bleeping your health record on a mobile. I'm sure that is GDPR compliant

When a national interest or the general interest of the public is deemed more important than that of an individual then GDPR is irrelevant.

[Block]

This is my final word on the matter, imo.

Lockdowns - Fail

Covid Passports - Fail

Imo

[Stairway 2 7]

Lockdowns and Passports are obviously sticking plaster solutions that destroy economies, livelihoods and youngsters futures.

Very simplistically have to rely upon vaccines and medical solutions to solve a medical problem.

Just like the plague we have to rely on medical science to solve the science behind it.

In the meantime we have to live with this virus without secondary destroying economies, livelihoods and young folks futures.

Lockdowns don't work neither will medical passports.

They saved an estimated 300,000 lives just from preventing infection. Thousands more would have died once all hospitals collapsed around June 2021 without them. Millions more with the effects of covid without the protection of vaccines in them first

They were successful only the most crackers dispute that

[Rumble de Thump]

You've lost me so not surprised you're not sure about much Mr Fezziwig.

Where did we lose you? I was asking you for some clarity.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm presuming GDPR will apply given it is a medical record. I can just imagine a GP standing in the waiting room full of patients bleeping your health record on a mobile. I'm sure that is GDPR compliant

I doubt it will show details. In Europe it just flashes green for ok and says the persons name no more info

[wookie70]

If pubs and non essential shops are closed till no be going in them. If it wasn't for lockdowns 3 times the estimated 150,000 would have died, if a third of the population roughly caught it. Millions would have needed hospital treatment and it would all be at once last spring. They wouldn't all have got treatment so that number of deaths world be higher.

Lockdowns work until everyone gets vaccinated. If every adult got vaccinated there would never be the threat of lockdown again with this

Lockdowns may be needed even if everyone is vaccinated. I would put them right at the top of useful measures. I'm ignoring any economic or mental health detriments though and am talking about proper lockdowns that we had in the early days albeit months too late. Next would be proper test and trace(still waiting and will never happen because we always have too many cases, a resource starved public service and allow thousands to enter into the island we live, then vaccinations and miles and miles below them would be passports. In reality though vaccinations are probably a good deal higher or top as the Government has been appalling at the other steps.

I agree that lockdowns have been massively effective in keeping our numbers of deaths down to a still ridiculously high figure. They could have been in the hundreds rather than the hundreds of thousands with a proper and sustained lockdown and stopping as much foreign travel as possible barring food and essential imports.

[Jones28]

Lockdowns and Passports are obviously sticking plaster solutions that destroy economies, livelihoods and youngsters futures.

Very simplistically have to rely upon vaccines and medical solutions to solve a medical problem.

Just like the plague we have to rely on medical science to solve the science behind it.

In the meantime we have to live with this virus without secondary destroying economies, livelihoods and young folks futures.

Lockdowns don't work neither will medical passports.

Lockdowns were the only thing that gave the NHS the breathing space it so desperately needed in 2020, they do work.

The plague was not solved by medicine 😂

The most effective cure was…isolation!

[Block]

Where did we lose you? I was asking you for some clarity.

I asked for some from you too.

How many lockdowns would it take to finally zero covid?

[660]

I asked for some from you too.

How many lockdowns would it take to finally zero covid?

zero isn’t a verb

[Jones28]

I asked for some from you too.

How many lockdowns would it take to finally zero covid?

New Zealand did it.

[Block]

zero isn’t a verb

I never asked if it was a verb.

I asked how many lockdowns would it take to finally reach zero covid?

Could you verify that?

[Rumble de Thump]

I asked for some from you too.

How many lockdowns would it take to finally zero covid?

You didn't ask that. I still don't know what you mean by lockdown. Have you lost yourself?

[wookie70]

I doubt it will show details. In Europe it just flashes green for ok and says the persons name no more info

That means it is giving the detail of being vaccinated or exempt. If it doesn't flash green it is giving the personal medical detail of being unvaccinated.

[Block]

New Zealand did it.

I heard they locked down after hearing they had single figure cases. Can you guarantee they won't have to again and again........

[wookie70]

Lockdowns were the only thing that gave the NHS the breathing space it so desperately needed in 2020, they do work.

The plague was not solved by medicine 😂

The most effective cure was…isolation! It still is the most effective way. 50K at a fitba match is madness when you think about it. Regardless of passport and vaccines just returning society to open all hours was always going to bring about more peaks in transmission and hospital admissions. The government basically weigh money against death and often choose money

[660]

I never asked if it was a verb.

I asked how many lockdowns would it take to finally reach zero covid?

Could you verify that?

No one said lockdown zero covid would. Me logic not strong

[Rumble de Thump]

I heard they locked down after hearing they had single figure cases. Can you guarantee they won't have to again and again........

How are they getting on with their vaccinations? Sorry if this is confusing.

[Rumble de Thump]

That means it is giving the detail of being vaccinated or exempt. If it doesn't flash green it is giving the personal medical detail of being unvaccinated.

It's not relevant.

[Casey1875]

I am taking part in the antibody study taking place and just received an email stating that I have the antibodies and that the levels mean that I am as much risk as somebody who has had the vaccine, yet due to not being doubled jagged I won't be allowed in. Makes absolutely zero sense. Even if I wanted to get it now I won't be able to get the passport for around 4 months. Completely unfair and clearly not based on the scientific evidence.

[Jones28]

I heard they locked down after hearing they had single figure cases. Can you guarantee they won't have to again and again........

Once their vaccine programme is up to standard then probably not, no.

Can you guarantee that you won’t be on here next weekend spouting off as usual?

Didn’t think so

[wookie70]

I heard they locked down after hearing they had single figure cases. Can you guarantee they won't have to again and again........

If we had the same success as New Zealand in preventing death we would have had 366 deaths overall. Their economy is fine too. More than 133 thousand have died unnecessarily due to the incompetence of the UK, Scottish, Welsh and NI Governments. Hard to believe the faith some have in their judgement.

[Jones28]

I am taking part in the antibody study taking place and just received an email stating that I have the antibodies and that the levels mean that I am as much risk as somebody who has had the vaccine, yet due to not being doubled jagged I won't be allowed in. Makes absolutely zero sense. Even if I wanted to get it now I won't be able to get the passport for around 4 months. Completely unfair and clearly not based on the scientific evidence.

It’s a vaccine passport, not an antibody passport. Why can’t you get the vaccine?

[Block]

If we had the same success as New Zealand in preventing death we would have had 366 deaths overall. Their economy is fine too. More than 133 thousand have died unnecessarily due to the incompetence of the UK, Scottish, Welsh and NI Governments. Hard to believe the faith some have in their judgement.

Nae difference to me.

Lockdowns = Fail

Covid Passports = Fail

No amount of them will solve covid.

Only medical science will.

[Jones28]

Nae difference to me.

Lockdowns = Fail

Covid Passports = Fail

No amount of them will solve covid.

Only medical science will.

Total **** wittery.

[007]

Lockdowns and Passports are obviously sticking plaster solutions that destroy economies, livelihoods and youngsters futures.

Very simplistically have to rely upon vaccines and medical solutions to solve a medical problem.

Just like the plague we have to rely on medical science to solve the science behind it.

In the meantime we have to live with this virus without secondary destroying economies, livelihoods and young folks futures.

Lockdowns don't work neither will medical passports.

"Just like the plague we have to rely on medical science to solve the science behind it."

Medical science to solve the science? You're not making any sense.

What was the science that solved the plague?

Are you talking about this plague? Which is believed to have been "solved" by quarantines (i.e. lockdowns).

https://i.ibb.co/kQqyRWj/Screenshot-20210910-235914-Chrome.jpg (https://ibb.co/86PBWSq)

You say "medical solutions to solve a medical problem." Who do you think the government are getting advice from about lockdowns and passports if it isn't medical experts?

[Glory Lurker]

I'm presuming GDPR will apply given it is a medical record. I can just imagine a GP standing in the waiting room full of patients bleeping your health record on a mobile. I'm sure that is GDPR compliant

It's medical information about yourself, that you've downloaded on to your phone. There isn't any GDPR angle. It's up to you if you share that information with someone else.

[Casey1875]

It’s a vaccine passport, not an antibody passport. Why can’t you get the vaccine?

The vaccine is to ensure you produce the antibodies. If you have them and are the same risk then surely that should be sufficient don't you think?

If you have covid you need to wait two months before you can have a vaccine and then a further 8 weeks for the next dose then two weeks after you are classed as fully vaccinated. For me that's 4 months.

[Rumble de Thump]

Nae difference to me.

Lockdowns = Fail

Covid Passports = Fail

No amount of them will solve covid.

Only medical science will.

Covid passports haven't been introduced yet.

I know it will seem rude but your patter = fail. It was your choice, though.

[Jones28]

The vaccine is to ensure you produce the antibodies. If you have them and are the same risk then surely that should be sufficient don't you think?

If you have covid you need to wait two months before you can have a vaccine and then a further 8 weeks for the next dose then two weeks after you are classed as fully vaccinated. For me that's 4 months.

I don’t know why but surely there’s a reason for them to say that antibodies are insufficient - isn’t a vaccine passport the only way of properly knowing people are resistant?

They aren’t doing this to spoil anyone’s fun.

[Rumble de Thump]

Gotcha.

You didn't.

[Glory Lurker]

Fitba! Hibs! [NHC] other teams!

[cabbageandribs1875]

wonder who Block will come back as next time

[Casey1875]

I don’t know why but surely there’s a reason for them to say that antibodies are insufficient - isn’t a vaccine passport the only way of properly knowing people are resistant?

They aren’t doing this to spoil anyone’s fun.

I think that it has been rushed through, even though there is an argument it needed to be due to current levels, the actual details are pretty sparse as to exemptions etc as far as I have seen.

It may be that the numbers taking part in this trial mean that they just don't care about the people doing so as I cannot fathom the reasoning going by what I was sent. I do think that it should be offered as an alternative to people who have had covid, if your levels aren't there then fair enough, not that I agree with them in principle.

I had previously been against getting the vaccine, then was changing my mind, now there is no chance. I am the same risk as a person who has had it yet will be excluded. Even if I want to get it, I've got a 4 month wait which puts it to January. May as well just stick it out on the fringes of society until this is over.

[007]

I am taking part in the antibody study taking place and just received an email stating that I have the antibodies and that the levels mean that I am as much risk as somebody who has had the vaccine, yet due to not being doubled jagged I won't be allowed in. Makes absolutely zero sense. Even if I wanted to get it now I won't be able to get the passport for around 4 months. Completely unfair and clearly not based on the scientific evidence.

Why?

You are suggesting that because 1 not fully vaccinated person participating in study (that hasn't yet been completed) has the same level of antibodies as someone vaccinated then all unvaccinated people should be allowed into high risk scenarios. Do you know what the full results of the study are? I bet not? For all you know you could be the exception rather than the norm.

You've got a cheek to claim decisions aren't being made on scientific evidence when you've formed your opinion purely based on your own results in the study. Hardly scientific is it? Would you be happy if the government were making decisions based on a study of just 1 person like you have just done?

[Jones28]

I think that it has been rushed through, even though there is an argument it needed to be due to current levels, the actual details are pretty sparse as to exemptions etc as far as I have seen.

It may be that the numbers taking part in this trial mean that they just don't care about the people doing so as I cannot fathom the reasoning going by what I was sent.

I had previously been against getting the vaccine, then was changing my mind, now there is no chance. I am the same risk as a person who has had it yet will be excluded. Even if I want to get it, I've got a 4 month wait which puts it to January. May as well just stick it out on the fringes of society until this is over.

Why would you wait it out when that could years of exclusion? Just get vaccinated?

[cabbageandribs1875]

seriously, why on earth do some think there's going to be anything other than proof of vaccinations on the vaccine certificate/QR code....just WHY ?:confused:

[Jones28]

Aw no!

Blocked

[Stairway 2 7]

I think that it has been rushed through, even though there is an argument it needed to be due to current levels, the actual details are pretty sparse as to exemptions etc as far as I have seen.

It may be that the numbers taking part in this trial mean that they just don't care about the people doing so as I cannot fathom the reasoning going by what I was sent. I do think that it should be offered as an alternative to people who have had covid, if your levels aren't there then fair enough, not that I agree with them in principle.

I had previously been against getting the vaccine, then was changing my mind, now there is no chance. I am the same risk as a person who has had it yet will be excluded. Even if I want to get it, I've got a 4 month wait which puts it to January. May as well just stick it out on the fringes of society until this is over.

When did you catch Covid I thought it was 4 weeks after that you could get vaxed. Plus you didn't get it when you could have so no sympathy really

[Rumble de Thump]

seriously, why on earth do some think there's going to be anything other than proof of vaccinations on the vaccine certificate/QR code....just WHY ?:confused:

It's much more interesting to say 'medical records' or 'medical history'.

[Casey1875]

Why?

You are suggesting that because 1 not fully vaccinated person participating in study (that hasn't yet been completed) has the same level of antibodies as someone vaccinated then all unvaccinated people should be allowed into high risk scenarios. Do you know what the full results of the study are? I bet not? For all you know you could be the exception rather than the norm.

You've got a cheek to claim decisions aren't being made on scientific evidence when you've formed your opinion purely based on your own results in the study. Hardly scientific is it? Would you be happy if the government were making decisions based on a study of just 1 person like you have just done?

Well given that it is a scientific study and they have sent results I would say that is scientific evidence. I never once mentioned that everyone who is not vaccinated should be allowed in, please point out if I have. I am saying that if you can prove that you have the antibodies you should not be treated differently because you got them from natural immunity as opposed to the vaccine.

[Jay]

I think that it has been rushed through, even though there is an argument it needed to be due to current levels, the actual details are pretty sparse as to exemptions etc as far as I have seen.

It may be that the numbers taking part in this trial mean that they just don't care about the people doing so as I cannot fathom the reasoning going by what I was sent. I do think that it should be offered as an alternative to people who have had covid, if your levels aren't there then fair enough, not that I agree with them in principle.

I had previously been against getting the vaccine, then was changing my mind, now there is no chance. I am the same risk as a person who has had it yet will be excluded. Even if I want to get it, I've got a 4 month wait which puts it to January. May as well just stick it out on the fringes of society until this is over.

Why 4 months? If you went for the vaccine tomorrow you could get the 2nd one in 8 weeks and if you take 2 weeks after that for building immunity that's only 10 weeks. Not even 3 months .

There's a few good podcasts with the scientists behind the vaccination, one called How to Wow which I really understood more than anything. You don't sound like your swithering but if you ever do it's worth a listen.

[cabbageandribs1875]

It's much more interesting to say 'medical records' or 'medical history'.



i've not even looked at the full details of it but i really don't think i need to, i would be absolutely totally thoroughly 110% amazed if there was wee 'hidden' medical records in it.... i won't even start on the dafties that think it's also about 'Power'

[Casey1875]

When did you catch Covid I thought it was 4 weeks after that you could get vaxed. Plus you didn't get it when you could have so no sympathy really

I had it a week past Wednesday and was told 60 days. Given you have no idea of my personal circumstances I couldn't care if you have sympathy or not.

[Jay]

I had it a week past Wednesday and was told 60 days. Given you have no idea of my personal circumstances I couldn't care if you have sympathy or not.

Ah I didn't pick up you had covid recently. Its 4 weeks after it that you can get your jag. My son had to check as he caught it after his first jag and needed to know when he could get the second. Hope your doing okay.

[Jones28]

I had it a week past Wednesday and was told 60 days. Given you have no idea of my personal circumstances I couldn't care if you have sympathy or not.

Why have you changed your mind about the vaccine?

[Stairway 2 7]

I had it a week past Wednesday and was told 60 days. Given you have no idea of my personal circumstances I couldn't care if you have sympathy or not.

I wish you got it in July. And hopefully you get it when available or its hibstv

[Casey1875]

Why 4 months? If you went for the vaccine tomorrow you could get the 2nd one in 8 weeks and if you take 2 weeks after that for building immunity that's only 10 weeks. Not even 3 months .

There's a few good podcasts with the scientists behind the vaccination, one called How to Wow which I really understood more than anything. You don't sound like your swithering but if you ever do it's worth a listen.

I cant get it for approximately 50 days from now as I just had covid and that was doctors advice. 8 weeks for the next one then the two weeks after.

I had posted earlier in the thread that after listening to the WHO podcast I was more inclined to get it. Following my result and the fact that despite that and that I would need to wait 4 months I'm more inclined to leave it. I will give that a listen though so thanks. Also appreciate the non arsey reply btw.

[Casey1875]

Why have you changed your mind about the vaccine?

I had changed to get it following listening to the WHO podcast which I previously posted a link to so anyone else on the fence might get more info. However following my results showing that I am at the same risk as someone double jabbed and still being left out I think its a bit of a joke. I am still in the study for another 6 months and if my levels change then I will likely get it. Given this is only meant to be until February and I wouldnt get it until January I think I would rather wait until that point.

[Jay]

I cant get it for approximately 50 days from now as I just had covid and that was doctors advice. 8 weeks for the next one then the two weeks after.

I had posted earlier in the thread that after listening to the WHO podcast I was more inclined to get it. Following my result and the fact that despite that and that I would need to wait 4 months I'm more inclined to leave it. I will give that a listen though so thanks. Also appreciate the non arsey reply btw.

I feel for you. You made a choice at the time that you thought was right, it still may be ..we all thought vax certificates might appear but nobody knew the facts. Your one of the ones who have been caught out and will suffer for it . I won't condemn anybody for not having the jag. But on the other hand I believe I am at less risk sitting next to someone who is vaccinated rather than someone who isn't so I do reluctantly support the move.

[Jay]

I had changed to get it following listening to the WHO podcast which I previously posted a link to so anyone else on the fence might get more info. However following my results showing that I am at the same risk as someone double jabbed and still being left out I think its a bit of a joke. I am still in the study for another 6 months and if my levels change then I will likely get it. Given this is only meant to be until February and I wouldnt get it until January I think I would rather wait until that point.

This is where they should maybe look at people like you showing negative tests before entering. I get they can't do that on a large scale but there could be exemptions for people in your situation as well as medically exempt

[Casey1875]

I feel you. You made a choice at the time that you thought was right, it still may be ..we all thought vax certificates might appear but nobody knew the facts. Your one of the ones who have been caught out and will suffer for it . I won't condemn anybody for not having the jag. But on the other hand I believe I am at less risk sitting next to someone who is vaccinated rather than someone who isn't so I do reluctantly support the move.

I honestly think that if more people had your attitude then a few more on the fence would be more likely to listen,the people calling people stupid and the like do nobody any favours. Providing more information is the only way to persuade people. Obviously the idiots on both sides of the argument don't help such as the folk saying they include chips etc but I think they are in the minority.

[Jay]

I honestly think that if more people had your attitude then a few more on the fence would be more likely to listen,the people calling people stupid and the like do nobody any favours. Providing more information is the only way to persuade people. Obviously the idiots on both sides of the argument don't help such as the folk saying they include chips etc but I think they are in the minority.

I said on another thread the best thing we can do is educate. Having Jason Leitch standing on a beach telling us to wash our hands and get vaccinated won't convince anybody nor will Janey Godley( I know let's not go there again) put proper educational shorts on before the popular programmes, football, love Island, in the ad break of corrie or just before the finale of something like Line of Duty . Address the issues people have with it instead of repeating what we should be doing, if we don't know to wash our hands by now we never will. Total waste of money

[Rumble de Thump]

Jason Leitch has even been on Sportsound/Off The Ball every week for about 18 months informing and educating people. If people aren't informed and educated by now it's because they've chosen not to be. This thread is a great example of the problem. Certain people have been relentlessly posting misinformation. They will continue to do so.

[hibbysam]

If that is accurate and I am interpreting it the right way it clearly points a massive reason to be vaccinated.
For example in the 50-59 age group I am reading that of the people in that group who had covid in that time period 1.3% of the unvaxinated group died compared to 0.1% of the vaccinated group. In essence a person between those ages was 13 times more likely to have died if not vaccinated.

While 13x may be true, it’s a bit of a stretch if you put that stat out alone considering it’s 13x of next to nothing.

[Jones28]

I said on another thread the best thing we can do is educate. Having Jason Leitch standing on a beach telling us to wash our hands and get vaccinated won't convince anybody nor will Janey Godley( I know let's not go there again) put proper educational shorts on before the popular programmes, football, love Island, in the ad break of corrie or just before the finale of something like Line of Duty . Address the issues people have with it instead of repeating what we should be doing, if we don't know to wash our hands by now we never will. Total waste of money

Great idea, like party political broadcasts.

[CentreLine]

The vaccine is to ensure you produce the antibodies. If you have them and are the same risk then surely that should be sufficient don't you think?

If you have covid you need to wait two months before you can have a vaccine and then a further 8 weeks for the next dose then two weeks after you are classed as fully vaccinated. For me that's 4 months.

You and many others need to be lauded for taking part in fact gathering programs that ultimately benefit us all. I hope and suspect if you pursue this, in the right places, you, along with many others in a similar position, will be able to get a “vaccine” passport whenever an equivalent, or better, chance of not getting or passing on this virus is properly established.

[hibee-boys]

I had Covid at New Year, have never had any health issues in my life, keep fit/active, don’t smoke and average weight for my height. I was incredibly unwell to the point where I had to go into hospital for oxygen early in the morning one night, scary experience. This was pre-vaccine, a number of my mates have had Covid since being vaccinated, it’s hardly affected them, and there’s been too many for that to be a coincidence. I was down getting vaccinated as soon as I could and question the sanity of people of won’t. No issue with the Covid passport at all, if it means anyone attending games who is at greater risk than me, feels more comfortable coming back then that’s a good enough reason for me.

[hibbysam]

This may have been covered in here already, apologies if so.

Another confusion of mine are the scientific data regarding immunity from catching Covid v immunity from the vaccine. The report I’ve read says if you’ve had Covid your far more immune to it than someone who has simply had the vaccine. If this is true, then we are going to be stopping someone who’s had Covid, but not the vaccine, and who’s tested negative from going to these events, but allowing someone who’s never had it previously, but been vaccinated, and may be carrying it now to attend?

How backwards does that sound?

Would be good to know how many unvaxed haven’t had it, that’s the only number we should be concerned about given the report I’ve seen. And with the huge numbers already vaccinated then herd immunity in the rest shouldn’t be that dangerous.

In my (daft) opinion, testing for events was the way forward, not vaccination status. If you’ve not got it you can’t pass it. If you’ve been vaxed you can still get it and pass it (although greatly reduced likelihood).

[Allant1981]

seriously, why on earth do some think there's going to be anything other than proof of vaccinations on the vaccine certificate/QR code....just WHY ?:confused:

I got mine yesterday and thats pretty much it, name, date when i got the 1st vaccine and what vaccine it was and then at the bottom the same info about the 2nd vaccine, no big deal

[blackpoolhibs]

I had never heard of this Godley woman until this all kicked off, is she just like a female Frankie Boyle?

[greenginger]

This may have been covered in here already, apologies if so.

Another confusion of mine are the scientific data regarding immunity from catching Covid v immunity from the vaccine. The report I’ve read says if you’ve had Covid your far more immune to it than someone who has simply had the vaccine. If this is true, then we are going to be stopping someone who’s had Covid, but not the vaccine, and who’s tested negative from going to these events, but allowing someone who’s never had it previously, but been vaccinated, and may be carrying it now to attend?

How backwards does that sound?

Would be good to know how many unvaxed haven’t had it, that’s the only number we should be concerned about given the report I’ve seen. And with the huge numbers already vaccinated then herd immunity in the rest shouldn’t be that dangerous.

In my (daft) opinion, testing for events was the way forward, not vaccination status. If you’ve not got it you can’t pass it. If you’ve been vaxed you can still get it and pass it (although greatly reduced likelihood).


I dont think we've got the capacity to properly test 100,000 plus football fans before a Saturday of fixtures.

We could all be asked to do our own lateral flow tests, but that would rely on us doing them properly and being honest.

Besides, we are already being asked to take these tests a couple of times a week.

[Ronniekirk]

It still is the most effective way. 50K at a fitba match is madness when you think about it. Regardless of passport and vaccines just returning society to open all hours was always going to bring about more peaks in transmission and hospital admissions. The government basically weigh money against death and often choose money

One of the few times Boris has been honest was when he said by opening up society again we may have to Lives with daily deaths of between 100 and 200 people daily and Thats what we are seeing
Was 204 one day
People wanted freedoms back and there is a price to be paid for that
There seems to be a political consensus just now to carry on as is and wait until nhs is overwhelmed agsin before doing anything ( vaccine certificates being the exception ) but they are a few weeks away


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

While 13x may be true, it’s a bit of a stretch if you put that stat out alone considering it’s 13x of next to nothing.

It’s not really next to nothing. U.K. wide there’ll be millions of people fall into that age group.

If we say 5m are in that age group U.K. wide then 0.1% means potentially 5k deaths. 1.3% means potentially 65k deaths. Small percentages are still big numbers when it comes to Covid.

[green day]

I had never heard of this Godley woman until this all kicked off, is she just like a female Frankie Boyle?

Not in Frankie Boyles league imo.

She gets rave reviews up here, partly due to her twitter voiceovers but I think part of that is just her "professional glaswegianism" which gets gales of laughter in the Fringe etc.

When she has been on the tv with other pretty sharp comedians she doesnt look quite as good.

[CapitalGreen]

This may have been covered in here already, apologies if so.

Another confusion of mine are the scientific data regarding immunity from catching Covid v immunity from the vaccine. The report I’ve read says if you’ve had Covid your far more immune to it than someone who has simply had the vaccine. If this is true, then we are going to be stopping someone who’s had Covid, but not the vaccine, and who’s tested negative from going to these events, but allowing someone who’s never had it previously, but been vaccinated, and may be carrying it now to attend?

How backwards does that sound?

Would be good to know how many unvaxed haven’t had it, that’s the only number we should be concerned about given the report I’ve seen. And with the huge numbers already vaccinated then herd immunity in the rest shouldn’t be that dangerous.

In my (daft) opinion, testing for events was the way forward, not vaccination status. If you’ve not got it you can’t pass it. If you’ve been vaxed you can still get it and pass it (although greatly reduced likelihood).

That’s been discussed a few pages back. It relates to people who have had the Delta variant only and as there is no simple way for people who are post-Covid infection to know what variant they had, it’s not really feasible to include them with the vaccinated cohort. The best way for us to get out of this is for everyone to get vaccinated, people looking for shortcuts or loopholes is only going to delay us further.

[hibbysam]

It’s not really next to nothing. U.K. wide there’ll be millions of people fall into that age group.

If we say 5m are in that age group U.K. wide then 0.1% means potentially 5k deaths. 1.3% means potentially 65k deaths. Small percentages are still big numbers when it comes to Covid.

It’s as a % of the cases, not the people. It was over a 4 week period, no chance did we have 70k deaths in that age bracket alone in the space of a month.

Those small %’s are just that, very small numbers.

[hibbysam]

That’s been discussed a few pages back. It relates to people who have had the Delta variant only and as there is no simple way for people who are post-Covid infection to know what variant they had, it’s not really feasible to include them with the vaccinated cohort. The best way for us to get out of this is for everyone to get vaccinated, people looking for shortcuts or loopholes is only going to delay us further.

Anyone that’s had Covid for the past 4/5 months is basically guaranteed to have had the delta variant. Anyone that gets it from now on likewise therefore getting Covid now will make them more immune than vaccination of that study is correct.

[calumhibee1]

It’s as a % of the cases, not the people. It was over a 4 week period, no chance did we have 70k deaths in that age bracket alone in the space of a month.

Those small %’s are just that, very small numbers.

I didn’t realise it was over a 4 week period, apologies.

With regards to it being cases though, I’d be surprised if by the time this is over if we’ve not all had COVID at some point, vaxxed or not. I don’t think many, if any, will manage to avoid it so the numbers will probably be fairly reflective over the full term of COVID.

[calumhibee1]

Anyone that’s had Covid for the past 4/5 months is basically guaranteed to have had the delta variant. Anyone that gets it from now on likewise therefore getting Covid now will make them more immune than vaccination of that study is correct.

I was wondering that the other day, what has happened to the other variants?

Essentially they’re a totally different thing. They must still be about and spreading as they would have with or without the delta variant I would have thought? I’m sure the Kent variant for example hasn’t turned round and went ah **** this, we’re no as good as that Delta one, let’s call it a day

[hibbysam]

I didn’t realise it was over a 4 week period, apologies.

With regards to it being cases though, I’d be surprised if by the time this is over if we’ve not all had COVID at some point, vaxxed or not. I don’t think many, if any, will manage to avoid it.

The chart showed the % of those who died after contracting Covid within the vax/unvaccinated groups in each age range during that 4 weeks.

I’d imagine so, and in my opinion it’s our way out of it.

[hibbysam]

I was wondering that the other day, what has happened to the other variants?

Essentially they’re a totally different thing. They must still be about and spreading as they would have with or without the delta variant I would have thought? I’m sure the Kent variant for example hasn’t turned round and went ah **** this, we’re no as good as that Delta one, let’s call it a day

😂😂 ‘UK don’t need me anymore, I’m away to Spain’

[Peevemor]

This may have been covered in here already, apologies if so.

Another confusion of mine are the scientific data regarding immunity from catching Covid v immunity from the vaccine. The report I’ve read says if you’ve had Covid your far more immune to it than someone who has simply had the vaccine. If this is true, then we are going to be stopping someone who’s had Covid, but not the vaccine, and who’s tested negative from going to these events, but allowing someone who’s never had it previously, but been vaccinated, and may be carrying it now to attend?

How backwards does that sound?

Would be good to know how many unvaxed haven’t had it, that’s the only number we should be concerned about given the report I’ve seen. And with the huge numbers already vaccinated then herd immunity in the rest shouldn’t be that dangerous.

In my (daft) opinion, testing for events was the way forward, not vaccination status. If you’ve not got it you can’t pass it. If you’ve been vaxed you can still get it and pass it (although greatly reduced likelihood).The Covid passport in France is both - vaccine or negative test.

The test will give you a pass valid for 3 days and most people are getting antigen tests at chemists who email the result directly to you.

It means that you can be non vaccinated but still attend matches, concerts, etc.

The tests are currently free but this is meant to change mid October.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm presuming GDPR will apply given it is a medical record. I can just imagine a GP standing in the waiting room full of patients bleeping your health record on a mobile. I'm sure that is GDPR compliant

We aren't talking about doctors surgeries!!!

No medical records will be disclosed in the, yet to be implemented, covid passport, unlike in England where a private company has been given the go ahead to amalgamate all GP and hospital records into a central database. That's where there might be a problem with privacy and GDPR.

[Moulin Yarns]

This is my final word on the matter, imo.

Lockdowns - Fail

Covid Passports - Fail

Imo


How can you say covid passports fail, they haven't been used yet!!!!

[hibbysam]

The Covid passport in France is both - vaccine or negative test.

The test will give you a pass valid for 3 days and most people are getting antigen tests at chemists who email the result directly to you.

It means that you can be non vaccinated but still attend matches, concerts, etc.

The tests are currently free but this is meant to change mid October.

Which would make far more sense.

[Stairway 2 7]

We aren't talking about doctors surgeries!!!

No medical records will be disclosed in the, yet to be implemented, covid passport, unlike in England where a private company has been given the go ahead to amalgamate all GP and hospital records into a central database. That's where there might be a problem with privacy and GDPR.
You are choosing to show it to get in somewhere really. Just like when I chose to go to Vietnam they wanted to see that I had my vaccines. Not forced to show, but also not getting in
If not

[Moulin Yarns]

I went to bed and this thread took a turn for the worse!! Friday night, alcohol and hibs.net don't seem to get on. 😉

[Moulin Yarns]

You are choosing to show it to get in somewhere really. Just like when I chose to go to Vietnam they wanted to see that I had my vaccines. Not forced to show, but also not getting in
If not

I know, it was Wookie who seems to think that your gp would be scanning it and thinking that GDPR would be compromised for some unfathomable reasons.

[JimBHibees]

seriously, why on earth do some think there's going to be anything other than proof of vaccinations on the vaccine certificate/QR code....just WHY ?:confused:

There wont be and would be no reason to be imo.

[J-C]

I had never heard of this Godley woman until this all kicked off, is she just like a female Frankie Boyle?


Not as funny.

I seen her in the festival a goof few years ago and she was very funny, stories about her family etc, she was known as the female Billy Connolly, recently her humour has became more political and she thinks since her Trump is a C*** poster, she can do no wrong, now totally unfunny and irritable.

[J-C]

There wont be and would be no reason to be imo.

The thread on the PM board explains it all, I went on the NHS site and downloaded my vaccination certificate to my phone. All it shows is name and details of the dates of my vaccinations with two scannable codes, no other details are shown.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Neither of your options are palatable imo.

Lockdowns = Failed.

Ineffectual Passports = Failed.

Imo

Or

Anti Vaxers Licked Up = Primising
And
Effective passports = Success

[J-C]

Or

Anti Vaxers Licked Up = Primising
And
Effective passports = Success


Lucky them :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Or

Anti Vaxers Licked Up = Primising
And
Effective passports = Success

I'm not licking them until they are vaccinated

[hibbyfraelibby]

Or

Anti Vaxers Licked Up = Primising
And
Effective passports = Success

I'm leaving that typo up...😁

[hibbysam]

The thread on the PM board explains it all, I went on the NHS site and downloaded my vaccination certificate to my phone. All it shows is name and details of the dates of my vaccinations with two scannable codes, no other details are shown.

For it to be policed correctly though you’d need to check ID. Peevemor has said already that’s not how it works elsewhere, but then that results in the concept being flawed as anyone could use anyone’s vaccine passport unless the person checking knows the user personally.

[Jones28]

I had never heard of this Godley woman until this all kicked off, is she just like a female Frankie Boyle?

Do not besmirch the good name of Frankie Boyle in such a way.

[Stairway 2 7]

For it to be policed correctly though you’d need to check ID. Peevemor has said already that’s not how it works elsewhere, but then that results in the concept being flawed as anyone could use anyone’s vaccine passport unless the person checking knows the user personally.

Just check the name on the season ticket next to the name on the passport. They already print the name if you buy a ticket they will do the same for everyone over 18 in your party

[hibbysam]

Just check the name on the season ticket next to the name on the passport. They already print the name if you buy a ticket they will do the same for everyone over 18 in your party

Your name isn’t on a digital ticket - just the CRO, so that would need to change for starters. I’d also suggest they probably don’t have the time to check everyone’s season tickets + passport to allow everyone in. You’d be there for hours at a full house.

[Allant1981]

Your name isn’t on a digital ticket - just the CRO, so that would need to change for starters. I’d also suggest they probably don’t have the time to check everyone’s season tickets + passport to allow everyone in. You’d be there for hours at a full house.

Its on the details bit on mine

[Stairway 2 7]

Your name isn’t on a digital ticket - just the CRO, so that would need to change for starters. I’d also suggest they probably don’t have the time to check everyone’s season tickets + passport to allow everyone in. You’d be there for hours at a full house.

Peevmore said it was fine at a festival in France and I'm sre they don't wait hours to get into psg games. But even checking every couple should be enough of a deterrent

[hibbysam]

Its on the details bit on mine

On season tickets it is, but not on single tickets - or wasn’t for the European games anyway. Away tickets for example don’t have names printed on them.

[hibbysam]

Peevmore said it was fine at a festival in France and I'm sre they don't wait hours to get into psg games. But even checking every couple should be enough of a deterrent

They don’t check ID though. If it’s to be done properly then it would need verified.

[Allant1981]

On season tickets it is, but not on single tickets - or wasn’t for the European games anyway. Away tickets for example don’t have names printed on them.

Sorry presumed you were talking about a season ticket

[Stairway 2 7]

On season tickets it is, but not on single tickets - or wasn’t for the European games anyway. Away tickets for example don’t have names printed on them.

I've had it printed on ticket maybe depends on how you buy it, also had it on away tickets. But its easily changed to make sure it happens all the time now. And no you don't necessarily need Id just ticket and vaccine passport, the same as the trial events

[Eyrie]

They don’t check ID though. If it’s to be done properly then it would need verified.

Agreed, or an unvaccinated person could simply borrow the pdf of a vaccinated person and gain entry.

If we're standing in a queue to get through the turnstiles then it's very easy to show a steward proof of vaccination and matching proof of ID without causing any delay. The only issues will be caused by people who aren't ready or who want to make a fuss.

[Moulin Yarns]

Agreed, or an unvaccinated person could simply borrow the pdf of a vaccinated person and gain entry.

If we're standing in a queue to get through the turnstiles then it's very easy to show a steward proof of vaccination and matching proof of ID without causing any delay. The only issues will be caused by people who aren't ready or who want to make a fuss.

At the east and west stand there is an opportunity to do the check as you go through the gates leading to the back of the stand.

Just my thoughts.

[hibbysam]

I've had it printed on ticket maybe depends on how you buy it, also had it on away tickets. But its easily changed to make sure it happens all the time now. And no you don't necessarily need Id just ticket and vaccine passport, the same as the trial events

Is it easily changed? I thought tickets were printed by the home side and sent to the away side to sell, hence why you can’t get digital away tickets yet? Not sure how you could then have names printed on them.

Don’t need ID if the name is on the ticket, of course.

[hibbysam]

The thread on the PM board explains it all, I went on the NHS site and downloaded my vaccination certificate to my phone. All it shows is name and details of the dates of my vaccinations with two scannable codes, no other details are shown.

Not sure which certificate you have, but the downloadable one from NHS inform has name, address in full, date of birth, the full works.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not sure which certificate you have, but the downloadable one from NHS inform has name, address in full, date of birth, the full works.

It also has the logos of all 4 UK NHS so is a 4 Nations compatible vaccine passport.

Fwiw, having the date of birth can help anyone checking to see if the person is at least a similar age as the holder.

[wookie70]

Is it easily changed? I thought tickets were printed by the home side and sent to the away side to sell, hence why you can’t get digital away tickets yet? Not sure how you could then have names printed on them.

Don’t need ID if the name is on the ticket, of course.

That will please anyone who has a mate with a vaccine passport who doesn't like football and who isn't a ST holder or is and goes to away games. Just get them to get your ticket and borrow their passport, piece of pee. The system will be so simple to get round it will be like gig tickets in the 80s. All you needed was a friendly reprographics department and the correctish colour of paper and everyone got in with one ticket.

For non St tickets unless a photo ID is involved in the process it is so simple to work around that it is fairly pointless.

[hibbysam]

That will please anyone who has a mate with a vaccine passport who doesn't like football and who isn't a ST holder or is and goes to away games. Just get them to get your ticket and borrow their passport, piece of pee. The system will be so simple to get round it will be like gig tickets in the 80s. All you needed was a friendly reprographics department and the correctish colour of paper and everyone got in with one ticket.

For non St tickets unless a photo ID is involved in the process it is so simple to work around that it is fairly pointless.

All for the sake of between 8-15% of people who haven’t been vaccinated, when the majority of those wouldn’t be attending an event of >10k anyway I’d presume.

[wookie70]

It also has the logos of all 4 UK NHS so is a 4 Nations compatible vaccine passport.

Fwiw, having the date of birth can help anyone checking to see if the person is at least a similar age as the holder.

Does that mean the two day passport someone mentioned, from NHS England, would work. I think I read you get one of those with a negative test. Hope they bring this in as my son will not be able to go to the Israel game as he got Covid while waiting for his second vaccination. So glad he isn't a season ticket holder as that would have been a large amount of cash gone rather than just 20 quid.

He has done everything that has been asked of him by Government and is now having part of his freedom taken away. It will be interesting to see if he gets the second vaccine given the way Government have treated him.

[wookie70]

All for the sake of between 8-15% of people who haven’t been vaccinated, when the majority of those wouldn’t be attending an event of >10k anyway I’d presume.
Yep, totally and utterly pointless

[calumhibee1]

Does that mean the two day passport someone mentioned, from NHS England, would work. I think I read you get one of those with a negative test. Hope they bring this in as my son will not be able to go to the Israel game as he got Covid while waiting for his second vaccination. So glad he isn't a season ticket holder as that would have been a large amount of cash gone rather than just 20 quid.

He has done everything that has been asked of him by Government and is now having part of his freedom taken away. It will be interesting to see if he gets the second vaccine given the way Government have treated him.

Why would he not get the second vaccine? :confused:

[hibbysam]

Does that mean the two day passport someone mentioned, from NHS England, would work. I think I read you get one of those with a negative test. Hope they bring this in as my son will not be able to go to the Israel game as he got Covid while waiting for his second vaccination. So glad he isn't a season ticket holder as that would have been a large amount of cash gone rather than just 20 quid.

He has done everything that has been asked of him by Government and is now having part of his freedom taken away. It will be interesting to see if he gets the second vaccine given the way Government have treated him.

Think that was Peevmore that mentioned that which IIRC is France.

[Peevemor]

That will please anyone who has a mate with a vaccine passport who doesn't like football and who isn't a ST holder or is and goes to away games. Just get them to get your ticket and borrow their passport, piece of pee. The system will be so simple to get round it will be like gig tickets in the 80s. All you needed was a friendly reprographics department and the correctish colour of paper and everyone got in with one ticket.

For non St tickets unless a photo ID is involved in the process it is so simple to work around that it is fairly pointless.You're saying it's pointless because you want to see it that way.

If there's the risk of a heavy fine for either borrowing or loaning a Covid passport then it won't be the free-for-all that you're suggesting.

[calumhibee1]

You're saying it's pointless because you want to see it that way.

If there's the risk of a heavy fine for either borrowing or loaning a Covid passport then it won't be the free-for-all that you're suggesting.

Yup. The idea that we may as well not bother because some folk will attempt to get round it is laughable.

Pretty much every rule/law will have people not follow it/break it. It doesn’t make them pointless in the slightest.

[wookie70]

Why would he not get the second vaccine? :confused:

He might decide his natural immunity is the protection he needs and that as he has lost his freedom for doing nothing wrong he may view it as sticking two fingers up at a government that stuck them up to him. He is a typically compliant youth(excepting when I want hi to do something of course) though who likes to go out with his mates so I expect he will get it. My daughter, who is learning disabled, got a needle thrust into her arm at school the other day. No chat with us to discuss whether she understood the plusses and pitfalls(however small). Perhaps Sturgeon will have upped the game with from coercion to force by them

[cabbageandribs1875]

I got mine yesterday and thats pretty much it, name, date when i got the 1st vaccine and what vaccine it was and then at the bottom the same info about the 2nd vaccine, no big deal


make this a sticky :)

[hibbysam]

Yup. The idea that we may as well not bother because some folk will attempt to get round it is laughable.

Pretty much every rule/law will have people not follow it/break it. It doesn’t make them pointless in the slightest.

It’s pointless because of the numbers involved IMO. I expect the majority of those who have had 1 jab to get their second. That would leave around 9% of over 18s not fully vaccinated. I’d expect a very small % of that to be attending a large scale event >10k. Of that small % the chances of them having and passing the virus on is even smaller again.

We are talking tiny numbers here for such a big operational change for clubs etc.

That to me is pointless.

[calumhibee1]

He might decide his natural immunity is the protection he needs and that as he has lost his freedom for doing nothing wrong he may view it as sticking two fingers up at a government that stuck them up to him. He is a typically compliant youth(excepting when I want hi to do something of course) though who likes to go out with his mates so I expect he will get it. My daughter, who is learning disabled, got a needle thrust into her arm at school the other day. No chat with us to discuss whether she understood the plusses and pitfalls(however small). Perhaps Sturgeon will have upped the game with from coercion to force by them

It sounds like he’s sensible enough to probably realise that whilst it’s not an ideal situation that it’s just worked out a bit **** for him and that he’ll do the right thing in the long run which will help all concerned. He’ll be able to crack on with the things he enjoys and he’ll carry on protecting his family, friends and everyone he comes into contact with.

[J-C]

Not sure which certificate you have, but the downloadable one from NHS inform has name, address in full, date of birth, the full works.


Sorry, I meant no other medical data or history, just as you said full details of individual person, if you have that plus ID it's you, there should be no hassle letting anyone into any event, very simple check.

[calumhibee1]

It’s pointless because of the numbers involved IMO. I expect the majority of those who have had 1 jab to get their second. That would leave around 9% of over 18s not fully vaccinated. I’d expect a very small % of that to be attending a large scale event >10k. Of that small % the chances of them having and passing the virus on is even smaller again.

We are talking tiny numbers here for such a big operational change for clubs etc.

That to me is pointless.

Conversely, I’d expect a fairly large percentage of the unvaxxed to be planning on going to the football. There’s only 9% of the eligible population unvaxxed but I’d be surprised if it’s not a lot more than 9% of the overall crowd at a football match.

The demographics of a football crowd are overwhelmingly men, a lot of them in the age groups that have lower uptake. On top of that, football fans I would suggest are proportionately more likely to be anti establishment and for want of a better way to describe it, probably carry more than our fair share of idiots.

If you’re looking for a place where the unvaxxed are going to congregate then imo football will be one of the highest proportionately.

[Peevemor]

It’s pointless because of the numbers involved IMO. I expect the majority of those who have had 1 jab to get their second. That would leave around 9% of over 18s not fully vaccinated. I’d expect a very small % of that to be attending a large scale event >10k. Of that small % the chances of them having and passing the virus on is even smaller again.

We are talking tiny numbers here for such a big operational change for clubs etc.

That to me is pointless.In theory everyone in attendance could be part of the remaining 9%

It could be that your 9% might rise to 30 or 40% of those attending certain matches.

For me the pass system would make more sense if it was for negative tests as well as vaccinations, but the idea remains good.

[hibbysam]

Conversely, I’d expect a fairly large percentage of the unvaxxed to be planning on going to the football.

The demographics of a football crowd are overwhelmingly men, a lot of them in the age groups that have lower uptake. On top of that, football fans I would suggest are proportionately more likely to be anti establishment and for want of a better way to describe it, probably carry more than our fair share of idiots.

If you’re looking for a place where the unvaxxed are going to congregate then imo football will be one of the highest proportionately.

Not sure I’d agree with that, just going by the group I know and would attend games with and we’re all in that age bracket and all double jabbed. Tie all that with people who are, allegedly, better immunised due to having Delta strain and IMO there’s not a huge number of people this effects.

[wookie70]

You're saying it's pointless because you want to see it that way.

If there's the risk of a heavy fine for either borrowing or loaning a Covid passport then it won't be the free-for-all that you're suggesting.

Is there a heavy fine for that. Did the full and very well thought out legislation touch on that. They don't even know what venues are nightclubs. I photographed a Boxing match last night. I'd agree a long while back and it was a charity type event. I was the only photographer so felt obliged to go. It was in a smallish club with maybe a couple of hundred in attendance. Half the evening was kids matches. No idea if this would be covered by Passports, doubt the government know yet, but I would feel safer in ER for a full season than I did there for 5 minutes. I'll not be volunteering for any future indoor events and wish I had said no to this one. If events like that, in unventilated halls with spit and blood flying and families and friends screaming and shouting are not requiring a passport then the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It will be interesting to see, even if it is passported, it is still a hotbed of transmission and all those passported people will then interact with others who may be unvaccinated in other smaller events, work, colleague, uni, homes etc etc.

I'm with Patrick Harvie, passports are "a real danger of generational injustice". He has been bought by power now though so has fallen in line

[Rumble de Thump]

Is there a heavy fine for that. Did the full and very well thought out legislation touch on that. They don't even know what venues are nightclubs. I photographed a Boxing match last night. I'd agree a long while back and it was a charity type event. I was the only photographer so felt obliged to go. It was in a smallish club with maybe a couple of hundred in attendance. Half the evening was kids matches. No idea if this would be covered by Passports, doubt the government know yet, but I would feel safer in ER for a full season than I did there for 5 minutes. I'll not be volunteering for any future indoor events and wish I had said no to this one. If events like that, in unventilated halls with spit and blood flying and families and friends screaming and shouting are not requiring a passport then the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It will be interesting to see, even if it is passported, it is still a hotbed of transmission and all those passported people will then interact with others who may be unvaccinated in other smaller events, work, colleague, uni, homes etc etc.

I'm with Patrick Harvie, passports are "a real danger of generational injustice". He has been bought by power now though so has fallen in line

His point was that not all young people had been given the chance to be double vaccinated. By the end of this month they should have had that chance.

[Ronniekirk]

Wee story on hibs news 24/7 saying hibs may keep maximum attendances at 10 thousand if vaccine certificates to difficult costly to implement
Assume that won’t happen but the fact this story is out there is a bit of a worry
Not much incentive now to buy the five or eight game packages until it’s clear that won’t happen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

It sounds like he’s sensible enough to probably realise that whilst it’s not an ideal situation that it’s just worked out a bit **** for him and that he’ll do the right thing in the long run which will help all concerned. He’ll be able to crack on with the things he enjoys and he’ll carry on protecting his family, friends and everyone he comes into contact with.

If he wanted to protect his family, I'm talking in general here not about my son, he wouldn't go to clubs etc in the first place. Not likely when the government is essentially saying they are safe by allowing them to open regardless of post or pre passports or what a nightclub is defined as.

Being vaccinated is tiny advantage to helping others compared to not catching the virus in the first place. We are full steam ahead with herd immunity with every egg being laid in the vaccine basket. The government have no issue with transmission as long as we are vaccinated.

I have one kid at school, one who works in hospitality and socialises frequently. The virus is a tiny issue to them given their health and age. Their behaviours are far more likely to get them hurt. The openness of society means the virus will visit my house, it has already, and will continue to do so regardless of passports or vaccines. My wife and I are double jagged so that is about as protected as we can get. Not many young people in hospital and even if they are in, having had a positive test in the last 14 days, how much of the reason for admission is covid. Hospitals are still rammed with older age groups, as you would expect in normal times, but especially with Covid. Passports are aimed squarely at the young given they are the lowest percentage of take up and have had the least amount of time to be vaccinated.

I hope it works but really can't see how it will have any real effect and is certainly miles down the priority list. It is spin rather than tackling the virus imo. A show of power and control for something easy to do to save trying to fix the messes they have made from the start

[tamig]

Yes. And you can now download a pdf to your phone with qr codes of the details.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Just downloaded mine now as didn’t realise I needed it for a gig next week.

[wookie70]

Just downloaded mine now as didn’t realise I needed it for a gig next week. Since when , the law comes in from 1 October as far as I was aware. Is it in Englandshire

[Sir David Gray]

Since when , the law comes in from 1 October as far as I was aware. Is it in Englandshire

Some places will decide to set their own rules.

[wookie70]

Some places will decide to set their own rules. Brave venue unless the Gig is Tom Jones or similar where most will be old and double vaxxed

[J-C]

Brave venue unless the Gig is Tom Jones or similar where most will be old and double vaxxed


Venues can do as they please it's there prerogative, all people at TRNSMT this weekend had to have a clear lateral flow test before being allowed in.

[CentreLine]

They don’t check ID though. If it’s to be done properly then it would need verified.

Wouldn’t it work much the same as the season ticket, you can only use the QR code once per game then it’s blocked? So many reasons why people are less likely to share QR codes but surely that has to be one of them. Bit of a bummer to turn up at the ground and find your mate has got in ahead of you on your vaccine passport.

[tamig]

Brave venue unless the Gig is Tom Jones or similar where most will be old and double vaxxed

The gig is next Friday in England. Condition of entry to the venue is double vaxed or negative LFT tests. Plenty places applying similar rules throughout the UK just now. It doesn’t need to be law.

[wookie70]

The gig is next Friday in England. Condition of entry to the venue is double vaxed or negative LFT tests. Plenty places applying similar rules throughout the UK just now. It doesn’t need to be law.

Westminster Govt encouraged passports (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57811067) for Gigs and nightclubs in England in July. Might not be law but the venues probably don't want to take a chance. I doubt an industry that has been harmed so much by covid would do it without that encouragement

[tamig]

Westminster Govt encouraged passports (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57811067) for Gigs and nightclubs in England in July. Might not be law but the venues probably don't want to take a chance. I doubt an industry that has been harmed so much by covid would do it without that encouragement

Its a moot point bud. I’ve downloaded my cert and ready to go. Sold out so the artists, the venue and the crowd all happy.

[wookie70]

Cases heading in the right direction and news that Englandshire won't be bringing in Passports (https://twitter.com/silkiecarlo/status/1436826826928701446?s=20), combined with a study that says healthy young boys would be safer with Covid than the Pfizer vaccine (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3BgHZwwFYGUgpkcN3mnV-oGxa3Y8ro9Zd_hC6DImO9W5mYIUusPhqkpyY#Echobox=16313 79256). Hopefully AZ doesn't have the same findings and my son has taken a wholly unnecessary risk and hopefully our club won't have to deal with passports and the unnecessary expense and potential decision of reducing capacity.

[FilipinoHibs]

Cases heading in the right direction and news that Englandshire won't be bringing in Passports (https://twitter.com/silkiecarlo/status/1436826826928701446?s=20), combined with a study that says healthy young boys would be safer with Covid than the Pfizer vaccine (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3BgHZwwFYGUgpkcN3mnV-oGxa3Y8ro9Zd_hC6DImO9W5mYIUusPhqkpyY#Echobox=16313 79256). Hopefully AZ doesn't have the same findings and my son has taken a wholly unnecessary risk and hopefully our club won't have to deal with passports and the unnecessary expense and potential decision of reducing capacity.

Wishful thinking. 25% of US covid 19 hospital admissions are under 17.

[Moulin Yarns]

Cases heading in the right direction and news that Englandshire won't be bringing in Passports (https://twitter.com/silkiecarlo/status/1436826826928701446?s=20), combined with a study that says healthy young boys would be safer with Covid than the Pfizer vaccine (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3BgHZwwFYGUgpkcN3mnV-oGxa3Y8ro9Zd_hC6DImO9W5mYIUusPhqkpyY#Echobox=16313 79256). Hopefully AZ doesn't have the same findings and my son has taken a wholly unnecessary risk and hopefully our club won't have to deal with passports and the unnecessary expense and potential decision of reducing capacity.

Good to see you believe a study which is yet to be peer reviewed and on the effect of a vaccine that your son wasn't given. 🙄

Pfizer and AZ are very different.

What unnecessary risk has your son taken?

[wookie70]

Good to see you believe a study which is yet to be peer reviewed and on the effect of a vaccine that your son wasn't given. 🙄

Pfizer and AZ are very different.

What unnecessary risk has your son taken? None yet, that is why I said I hope he hasn't and specifically mentioned that AZ is different. I hope all the vaccines are in time viewed to be completely safe. However if that survey is right then Israel has been pumping vaccines into that age groups of boys declaring it safe based on their earlier studies. I hope that doesn't happen here and I am specifically talking about the young here who have a minute risk from Covid.

[greenginger]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58535258

what now ?

[H18 SFR]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58535258

what now ?

She will be delighted to be seen to be doing something different. Can’t see anything changing up here.

[Bright_Hibee]

Anti-vaxxers are absolute tools. If they are supporters or club staff members, they shouldn't be allowed at Easter Road.

[Coco Bryce]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58535258

what now ?

It won't work here either.

[wookie70]

Anti-vaxxers are absolute tools. If they are supporters or club staff members, they shouldn't be allowed at Easter Road.


Is that another passport required for that.

[FilipinoHibs]

The next 6 months to a year do not look good:

Here’s What the*Next Six Months of the Pandemic Will Bring https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-12/6-month-covid-outlook-2021

[CentreLine]

The next 6 months to a year do not look good:

Here’s What the*Next Six Months of the Pandemic Will Bring https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-12/6-month-covid-outlook-2021

The article seems to be behind a paywall. Can you copy and paste at all?

[FilipinoHibs]

The article seems to be behind a paywall. Can you copy and paste at all?

Sorry does not allow me to post.

But summary is from pandemic experts:

Has another 18 months to 2 years to ru;
We are in third wave, likely to be a fourth wave;
4th wave will see a return working from home, no face to face schooling, masks and lockdowns;

New variants may be immune to the vaccine; and

To get under control need 90 to 95% of the world's population vaccinated or infected.

[The dalmeny]

Sorry does not allow me to post.

But summary is from pandemic experts:

Has another 18 months to 2 years to ru;
We are in third wave, likely to be a fourth wave;
4th wave will see a return working from home, no face to face schooling, masks and lockdowns;

New variants may be immune to the vaccine; and

To get under control need 90 to 95% of the world's population vaccinated or infected.

pure press speculation, if it happens it happens. Let’s just spread more doom and gloom.

[Peevemor]

Sorry does not allow me to post.

But summary is from pandemic experts:

Has another 18 months to 2 years to ru;
We are in third wave, likely to be a fourth wave;
4th wave will see a return working from home, no face to face schooling, masks and lockdowns;

New variants may be immune to the vaccine; and

To get under control need 90 to 95% of the world's population vaccinated or infected.

I was speaking to a chemist friend on Saturday night and she was saying that the current thinking is approx. 5 years (total).

[Sir David Gray]

The article seems to be behind a paywall. Can you copy and paste at all?

For anyone hoping to see light at the end of the Covid-19 tunnel over the next three to six months, scientists have some bad news: Brace for more of what we’ve already been through.

Outbreaks will close schools and cancel classes. Vaccinated nursing home residents will face renewed fears of infection. Workers will weigh the danger of returning to the office as hospitals are overwhelmed, once again.

Almost everyone will be either infected or vaccinated before the pandemic ends, experts agree. Maybe both. An unlucky few will contract the virus more than once. The race between the waves of transmission that lead to new variants and the battle to get the globe inoculated won’t be over until the coronavirus has touched all of us.

“I see these continued surges occurring throughout the world,” said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, and an adviser to U.S. President Joe Biden. “Then it will drop, potentially somewhat precipitously,” he said. “And then I think we very easily could see another surge in the fall and winter” of this year, he added.

With billions of people around the world yet to be vaccinated and little chance now of eliminating the virus, we can expect more outbreaks in classrooms, on public transport and in workplaces over the coming months, as economies push ahead with reopening. Even as immunization rates rise, there will always be people who are vulnerable to the virus: Newborn babies, people who can’t or won’t get inoculated, and those who get vaccinated but suffer breakthrough infections as their protection levels ebb.

The next few months will be rough. One key danger is if a vaccine-resistant variant develops, although it is not the only risk ahead. In the coming months, Bloomberg will explore the pandemic’s long-term impact on economies and markets, the pharmaceutical industry, travel and more.

“We’re going to see hills and valleys, at least for the next several years as we get more vaccine out. That’s going to help. But the challenge is going to be: How big will the hills and valleys be, in terms of their distance?” Osterholm said. “We don’t know. But I can just tell you, this is a coronavirus forest fire that will not stop until it finds all the human wood that it can burn.”

Covid Compared to Other Pandemics

The five well-documented influenza pandemics of the past 130 years offer some blueprint for how Covid might play out, according to Lone Simonsen, an epidemiologist and professor of population health sciences at Roskilde University in Denmark. She is an expert on the ebb and flow of such events.

While the longest global flu outbreak lasted five years, they mostly consisted of two to four waves of infection over an average of two or three years, she said. Covid is already shaping up to be among the more severe pandemics, as its second year concludes with the world in the middle of a third wave — and no end in sight.

It’s possible that the virus known as SARS-CoV-2 won’t follow the path set by the pandemics of the past. After all, it is a different, novel and potentially more transmissible pathogen. And with a death toll of more than 4.6 million people so far, it’s already more than twice as deadly as any outbreak since the 1918 Spanish flu.

Despite brutal initial waves and relatively high vaccination rates, countries including the U.S., U.K., Russia and Israel are flirting with record numbers of cases. Immunization is helping to moderate incidences of severe cases and deaths, but surging infections mean the virus is reaching the young and others who remain unvaccinated, leading to rising rates of serious disease in those groups.

Nations where vaccination has been sparse — including Malaysia, Mexico, Iran and Australia — are in the midst of their biggest outbreaks yet, fueled by the contagious delta strain. With the virus still spreading out of control in vast swathes of the planet, another novel variant could quite feasibly emerge.

History shows the commonly held belief that viruses automatically get milder over time — to avoid completely wiping out their host population — is wrong, according to Simonsen. Although new mutations aren’t always more severe than their predecessors, “pandemics can in fact get more deadly during the pandemic period, as the virus is adapting to its new host,” she said.

Early in the Covid outbreak, there was good reason to hope that vaccines would provide long-term protection, much like childhood shots that stop diseases such as polio.

Coronaviruses have a “proof-reading” mechanism that fixes the in-born errors caused when the virus replicates, reducing the likelihood of variants emerging when the virus is transmitted from one person to another.

The number of global cases has been so vast, however, that mutations are occurring anyway.

“With the pandemic, we have this enormous force of infection,” said ****a Subbarao, director of the WHO Collaborating Center for Reference and Research on Influenza at the Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity in Melbourne. “That has counterbalanced the ability of the virus to proof-read.”

As a result, Covid could be like the flu, requiring regular vaccine top-ups to remain effective as the virus evolves.

Some researchers say SARS-CoV-2 is poised to become completely resistant to the first generation of vaccines. A study from Japan, which has yet to be published or peer-reviewed, suggests that potentially dangerous mutations in the delta variant are already being picked up in a global database used to track such developments. Reports of current strains breaking through vaccinations or triggering higher fatality rates have not held up to rigorous scrutiny thus far.

“This is a scenario we hope won’t happen,” Simonsen said. “My God, we would have to do it all again.”

Other even grimmer possibilities for the coming months include the emergence of a novel influenza virus or another coronavirus making the leap from animals into humans.

“As long as there are animal reservoirs of coronavirus there is still the possibility that another zoonotic coronavirus could emerge in the future,” Subbarao said. “There is that in the background, the risk of still dealing with this one when another one emerges.”

How Will Covid End?

What seems clear is that the pandemic will not be over in six months. Experts generally agree that the current outbreak will be tamed once most people — perhaps 90% to 95% of the global population — have a degree of immunity thanks to immunization or previous infection.

The key element should be vaccination, they say.

“Without vaccination, one is like a sitting duck, because the virus will spread widely and find most everybody this autumn and winter,” said Simonsen.

More than 5.66 billion doses of vaccine have been administered around the world, according to Bloomberg’s vaccine tracker. But the success of rollouts in some regions, such as the European Union, North America and China, masks the failure in others. Most countries in Africa have only given enough vaccine to cover less than 5% of their populations with a two-dose shot. India has administered enough to cover only about 26%.

The pandemic will end at different times in different places, just as previous outbreaks have, said Erica Charters, associate professor of the history of medicine at Oxford University and the coordinator of a project on how epidemics end. Governments will have to decide how much of the disease they are comfortable living with, she said.

Approaches vary. While some countries are still shooting for zero Covid cases, the world is unlikely to eradicate the virus completely.

Nations like Denmark and Singapore, which have managed to keep cases relatively contained, are already moving toward a post-pandemic future with fewer safety restrictions. Others, such as the U.S. and U.K., are opening up even as infection numbers near records. Meanwhile, China, Hong Kong and New Zealand have vowed to keep vigilantly working to eliminate the virus locally. As a result, they are likely to be among the last places to leave behind the disruption wrought by walling out the pandemic.

“The end process is not going to be uniform,” Charters said. The pandemic “is a biological phenomenon, but it’s also a political and social phenomenon.”

“Even now we have different approaches to it.”

It’s likely to be messy, leaving a lasting legacy for years to come. Until then, most of us will need to brace for many more months in the pandemic’s grip.

“We have to approach it with our eyes wide open and with a great deal of humility,” Osterholm said. “Anybody that thinks we're going to be over this in the next few days or a few months is sorely mistaken.”

[green day]

Is there even the vaguest possibility that this thread can stay on track about Vaccine Passports for Easter Road?

AFAIK there is a general Covid thread elsewhere..................................

[WhileTheChief..]

To save me reading 39 pages, am I allowed to go to the game on Saturday without a COVID passport?

[Sir David Gray]

Is there even the vaguest possibility that this thread can stay on track about Vaccine Passports for Easter Road?

AFAIK there is a general Covid thread elsewhere..................................

Personally speaking I only posted what I did as someone posted an article which someone couldn't read due to a paywall.

[Sir David Gray]

To save me reading 39 pages, am I allowed to go to the game on Saturday without a COVID passport?

Yes the passport rule comes in on 1st October.

[WhileTheChief..]

Thank you so much, didn’t fancy going through this thread at all :aok:

[superfurryhibby]

Anti-vaxxers are absolute tools. If they are supporters or club staff members, they shouldn't be allowed at Easter Road.

Insight points, but that will make the squad even lighter as clearly some players have yet to be vaccinated.

The impracticalities of enforcing vaccine passports are starting to sink in a bit now. Restricted attendances and random checks seeming more likely according to Radio Scotland this morning. That will certainly hit clubs income hard if it comes to pass.

[Peevemor]

Insight points, but that will make the squad even lighter as clearly some players have yet to be vaccinated.

The impracticalities of enforcing vaccine passports are starting to sink in a bit now. Restricted attendances and random checks seeming more likely according to Radio Scotland this morning. That will certainly hit clubs income hard if it comes to pass.

It's only impractical if people look to treat it as such. It was introduced here, at very short notice, and it works fine.

Losing out on a percentage of fans won't hit clubs' income as hard as closing the stadiums again.

[superfurryhibby]

It's only impractical if people look to treat it as such. It was introduced here, at very short notice, and it works fine.

Losing out on a percentage of fans won't hit clubs' income as hard as closing the stadiums again.



It's impractical because no one at a football stadium will be checking 10,000, 20,000 or 50,000 QR codes, that isn't really reliant on how people look to treat it.

it's just unworkable in practice, that's all.

If the Scottish Government feel that restricting crowd sizes make any difference to the spread of Covid, then it will hit our leading clubs hard, including Hibs. But yes, some crowds are better than no crowds.

I guess we should all be very grateful for the small mercy our government show us.

[Allez Hibs]

So Vaccine Passports are being discarded in England but still going ahead in Scotland? Have I got that right?

[Peevemor]

It's impractical because no one at a football stadium will be checking 10,000 or 20,000 QR codes, that isn't really reliant on how people look to treat it.

it's just unworkable in practice, that's all.

If the Scottish Government feel that restricting crowd sizes make any difference to the spread of Covid, then it will hit our leading clubs hard, including Hibs. But yes, some crowds are better than no crowds.

I guess we should all be very grateful for the small mercy our government show us.

There was 47k+ in attendance at the Parc des Princes for the PSG match on Saturday, 24k+ at Rennes yesterday and so on.

All with 'passe sanitaire"

It's definitely practicable.

[Jim44]

pure press speculation, if it happens it happens. Let’s just spread more doom and gloom.

Just the attitude the world wants to avoid. If a bit of doom and gloom keeps awareness and caution to the forefront and encourages everybody to follow protocols, then bring it on. Call it press speculation if you want but I don’t see any press speculation advocating a laissez faire approach. Sorry to continue this issue here as there is a more appropriate thread in the Holy Ground Forum.

[Allez Hibs]

Why should it be moved to the Holy Ground? This is something that affects the entire support accessing all Hibs matches.

[ScottB]

So Vaccine Passports are being discarded in England but still going ahead in Scotland? Have I got that right?

Seems Boris traded it away for getting his MPs to back the NI rise, which they also weren’t keen on.

However the news this morning is reporting they will likely come back for the winter, so…

[superfurryhibby]

There was 47k+ in attendance at the Parc des Princes for the PSG match on Saturday, 24k+ at Rennes yesterday and so on.

All with 'passe sanitaire"

It's definitely practicable.

Many people in Scotland seem to be conceding that it won't be workable in the context of our football clubs. There is talk about random checks rather than blanket checking.

I'd be interested to here more about how the checks were implemented?

At Hibs we seem to have trouble enough getting folk through the turnstiles when they only have to scan a barcode.

[Sir David Gray]

So Vaccine Passports are being discarded in England but still going ahead in Scotland? Have I got that right?

Yes correct.

[Rumble de Thump]

It would be difficult for the Tories to go ahead with vaccine passports as anti-vaxxers are the kind of people they've been pandering to in recent years to ensure they got into, and retained, power. They would risk losing a key element of their voters.

[Allez Hibs]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58536199

Doncaster saying spot checks would be the only way to go. What would happen to someone who got into the game but doesn't have a vaccine certificate? Would it be the classed same as breaking lockdown restrictions?

[Peevemor]

Many people in Scotland seem to be conceding that it won't be workable in the context of our football clubs. There is talk about random checks rather than blanket checking.

I'd be interested to here more about how the checks were implemented?

At Hibs we seem to have trouble enough getting folk through the turnstiles when they only have to scan a barcode.

Why, when there's proof that it works elsewhere?

[JimBHibees]

Why can't each club get season ticket holders to email them vaccine passport document so that only non season ticket holders need be checked? Would that be such a difficult exercise and reduce the need for wholesale checking.

[Allez Hibs]

Why can't each club get season ticket holders to email them vaccine passport document so that only non season ticket holders need be checked? Would that be such a difficult exercise and reduce the need for wholesale checking.

👏 👏 👏
That is too much like common sense. That is exactly what should happen.

[Jim44]

Why can't each club get season ticket holders to email them vaccine passport document so that only non season ticket holders need be checked? Would that be such a difficult exercise and reduce the need for wholesale checking.

It’s not always the season ticket holders bum that’s on the seat.

[CMurdoch]

There was 47k+ in attendance at the Parc des Princes for the PSG match on Saturday, 24k+ at Rennes yesterday and so on.

All with 'passe sanitaire"

It's definitely practicable.

What is the difference between here and France with this matter?
Is it simply the can't do moaning attitude of some of our people?
Is it the same attitude that sees Scotland with the worst covid case numbers in Europe?

[superfurryhibby]

Why, when there's proof that it works elsewhere?

That's why I was asking you for more insight as to how it was implemented.

You perhaps haven't experienced the regular challenges at ER with scanning at unstaffed turnstiles, which I alluded to? It causes issues at every game.

I would assume that the turnstile scanners would need some kind of update to recognise a new function (like scanning the vaccine records?) That would be a practical consideration, particularly as the Scottish Government expect this to be in situ for the game V Rangers.


https://www.thenational.scot/sport/19571090.jrg-issue-covid-passport-warning-scottish-government-talks/


"A spokesperson for the JRG said: “Both the Scottish FA and the SPFL wholeheartedly support the national effort to eradicate COVID-19.

“We have been in discussions with Scottish Government officials regarding the practical implications of vaccine passports for major events, and in particular the risk of health and safety issues and crowd disorder if fans are delayed getting into stadiums, which everyone naturally wants to avoid.

“With only three weeks before the 1st October deadline, we are committed to working hard to develop an effective and workable solution.

"With that in mind, we are keen to explore whether any vaccine passport regime can include spot-checks, rather than blanket inspections of everyone attending games.”

[Bristolhibby]

So Vaccine Passports are being discarded in England but still going ahead in Scotland? Have I got that right?

Johnson does what’s good for Johnson, not what’s needed for the good of the country.

His popularity took a hit on the polls at the back end of last week, so he’s quietly shelved the plans. (Also there’s a chunk of Tory MPs who would not countenance any restriction on Liberty). There is a chance they could have embarrassingly (for Johnson) scuppered the vote.

Lots of politics down here. Not necessarily “following the science”.

As has been said, England is the outlier when it comes to the rest of Europe, who most have some sort of passport system.

J

[Bristolhibby]

It’s not always the season ticket holders bum that’s on the seat.

Should be.

Especially during COVID and passports.

Do a random ID check to enforce it (for the duration).

J

[Bristolhibby]

That's why I was asking you for more insight as to how it was implemented.

You perhaps haven't experienced the regular challenges at ER with scanning at unstaffed turnstiles, which I alluded to? It causes issues at every game.

I would assume that the turnstile scanners would need some kind of update to recognise a new function (like scanning the vaccine records?) That would be a practical consideration, particularly as the Scottish Government expect this to be in situ for the game V Rangers.


https://www.thenational.scot/sport/19571090.jrg-issue-covid-passport-warning-scottish-government-talks/


"A spokesperson for the JRG said: “Both the Scottish FA and the SPFL wholeheartedly support the national effort to eradicate COVID-19.

“We have been in discussions with Scottish Government officials regarding the practical implications of vaccine passports for major events, and in particular the risk of health and safety issues and crowd disorder if fans are delayed getting into stadiums, which everyone naturally wants to avoid.

“With only three weeks before the 1st October deadline, we are committed to working hard to develop an effective and workable solution.

"With that in mind, we are keen to explore whether any vaccine passport regime can include spot-checks, rather than blanket inspections of everyone attending games.”

Can we not have two cordons?

First cordon checks the passport, second is at the gate.

J

[Peevemor]

That's why I was asking you for more insight as to how it was implemented.

You perhaps haven't experienced the regular challenges at ER with scanning at unstaffed turnstiles, which I alluded to? It causes issues at every game.

I would assume that the turnstile scanners would need some kind of update to recognise a new function (like scanning the vaccine records?) That would be a practical consideration, particularly as the Scottish Government expect this to be in situ for the game V Rangers.


https://www.thenational.scot/sport/19571090.jrg-issue-covid-passport-warning-scottish-government-talks/


"A spokesperson for the JRG said: “Both the Scottish FA and the SPFL wholeheartedly support the national effort to eradicate COVID-19.

“We have been in discussions with Scottish Government officials regarding the practical implications of vaccine passports for major events, and in particular the risk of health and safety issues and crowd disorder if fans are delayed getting into stadiums, which everyone naturally wants to avoid.

“With only three weeks before the 1st October deadline, we are committed to working hard to develop an effective and workable solution.

"With that in mind, we are keen to explore whether any vaccine passport regime can include spot-checks, rather than blanket inspections of everyone attending games.”

All that would be required is a steward at each turnstile queue to scan the passes as people approach. It really doesn't have to be complicated.

[mvteng]

It's impractical because no one at a football stadium will be checking 10,000, 20,000 or 50,000 QR codes, that isn't really reliant on how people look to treat it.



But yet my Season Ticket is simply a QR code that is scanned before entry. That works absolutely fine

I dont see how its any more difficult to scan a QR code for a vaccine passport than for a ST

[Bristolhibby]

Most things are too difficult until we do them.

Then they become normal.

J

[AugustaHibs]

Should be.

Especially during COVID and passports.

Do a random ID check to enforce it (for the duration).

J

Why should it be? If I can’t attend I’d rather give my ticket to a friend than the seat go empty

[green day]

In the meantime can anyone else politely explain how the scanners will be able to link to a database that contains information on our Covid vaccination status.

As I understand it, they will scan the QR code and verify that it is real and hence the vaccination status shown for "Mr Super Furry" is accurate.

[Allez Hibs]

As JimBHibees has said, the passport should be mapped to a season ticket. That would then allow approved season tickets and would be pretty simple. This would also need a separate queue and process for walk ups though which would no doubt be a slower queue checking both QR Codes and tickets.

[HNA12]

Wee request, let’s please do this without making personal digs. Many thanks.

[green day]

Wee request, let’s please do this without making personal digs. Many thanks.

Even at admin pwicks? Where's the fun in that😁

[JimBHibees]

It’s not always the season ticket holders bum that’s on the seat.

Not sure that any system would stop that.

[Alfred E Newman]

For anyone hoping to see light at the end of the Covid-19 tunnel over the next three to six months, scientists have some bad news: Brace for more of what we’ve already been through.

Outbreaks will close schools and cancel classes. Vaccinated nursing home residents will face renewed fears of infection. Workers will weigh the danger of returning to the office as hospitals are overwhelmed, once again.

Almost everyone will be either infected or vaccinated before the pandemic ends, experts agree. Maybe both. An unlucky few will contract the virus more than once. The race between the waves of transmission that lead to new variants and the battle to get the globe inoculated won’t be over until the coronavirus has touched all of us.

“I see these continued surges occurring throughout the world,” said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, and an adviser to U.S. President Joe Biden. “Then it will drop, potentially somewhat precipitously,” he said. “And then I think we very easily could see another surge in the fall and winter” of this year, he added.

With billions of people around the world yet to be vaccinated and little chance now of eliminating the virus, we can expect more outbreaks in classrooms, on public transport and in workplaces over the coming months, as economies push ahead with reopening. Even as immunization rates rise, there will always be people who are vulnerable to the virus: Newborn babies, people who can’t or won’t get inoculated, and those who get vaccinated but suffer breakthrough infections as their protection levels ebb.

The next few months will be rough. One key danger is if a vaccine-resistant variant develops, although it is not the only risk ahead. In the coming months, Bloomberg will explore the pandemic’s long-term impact on economies and markets, the pharmaceutical industry, travel and more.

“We’re going to see hills and valleys, at least for the next several years as we get more vaccine out. That’s going to help. But the challenge is going to be: How big will the hills and valleys be, in terms of their distance?” Osterholm said. “We don’t know. But I can just tell you, this is a coronavirus forest fire that will not stop until it finds all the human wood that it can burn.”

Covid Compared to Other Pandemics

The five well-documented influenza pandemics of the past 130 years offer some blueprint for how Covid might play out, according to Lone Simonsen, an epidemiologist and professor of population health sciences at Roskilde University in Denmark. She is an expert on the ebb and flow of such events.

While the longest global flu outbreak lasted five years, they mostly consisted of two to four waves of infection over an average of two or three years, she said. Covid is already shaping up to be among the more severe pandemics, as its second year concludes with the world in the middle of a third wave — and no end in sight.

It’s possible that the virus known as SARS-CoV-2 won’t follow the path set by the pandemics of the past. After all, it is a different, novel and potentially more transmissible pathogen. And with a death toll of more than 4.6 million people so far, it’s already more than twice as deadly as any outbreak since the 1918 Spanish flu.

Despite brutal initial waves and relatively high vaccination rates, countries including the U.S., U.K., Russia and Israel are flirting with record numbers of cases. Immunization is helping to moderate incidences of severe cases and deaths, but surging infections mean the virus is reaching the young and others who remain unvaccinated, leading to rising rates of serious disease in those groups.

Nations where vaccination has been sparse — including Malaysia, Mexico, Iran and Australia — are in the midst of their biggest outbreaks yet, fueled by the contagious delta strain. With the virus still spreading out of control in vast swathes of the planet, another novel variant could quite feasibly emerge.

History shows the commonly held belief that viruses automatically get milder over time — to avoid completely wiping out their host population — is wrong, according to Simonsen. Although new mutations aren’t always more severe than their predecessors, “pandemics can in fact get more deadly during the pandemic period, as the virus is adapting to its new host,” she said.

Early in the Covid outbreak, there was good reason to hope that vaccines would provide long-term protection, much like childhood shots that stop diseases such as polio.

Coronaviruses have a “proof-reading” mechanism that fixes the in-born errors caused when the virus replicates, reducing the likelihood of variants emerging when the virus is transmitted from one person to another.

The number of global cases has been so vast, however, that mutations are occurring anyway.

“With the pandemic, we have this enormous force of infection,” said ****a Subbarao, director of the WHO Collaborating Center for Reference and Research on Influenza at the Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity in Melbourne. “That has counterbalanced the ability of the virus to proof-read.”

As a result, Covid could be like the flu, requiring regular vaccine top-ups to remain effective as the virus evolves.

Some researchers say SARS-CoV-2 is poised to become completely resistant to the first generation of vaccines. A study from Japan, which has yet to be published or peer-reviewed, suggests that potentially dangerous mutations in the delta variant are already being picked up in a global database used to track such developments. Reports of current strains breaking through vaccinations or triggering higher fatality rates have not held up to rigorous scrutiny thus far.

“This is a scenario we hope won’t happen,” Simonsen said. “My God, we would have to do it all again.”

Other even grimmer possibilities for the coming months include the emergence of a novel influenza virus or another coronavirus making the leap from animals into humans.

“As long as there are animal reservoirs of coronavirus there is still the possibility that another zoonotic coronavirus could emerge in the future,” Subbarao said. “There is that in the background, the risk of still dealing with this one when another one emerges.”

How Will Covid End?

What seems clear is that the pandemic will not be over in six months. Experts generally agree that the current outbreak will be tamed once most people — perhaps 90% to 95% of the global population — have a degree of immunity thanks to immunization or previous infection.

The key element should be vaccination, they say.

“Without vaccination, one is like a sitting duck, because the virus will spread widely and find most everybody this autumn and winter,” said Simonsen.

More than 5.66 billion doses of vaccine have been administered around the world, according to Bloomberg’s vaccine tracker. But the success of rollouts in some regions, such as the European Union, North America and China, masks the failure in others. Most countries in Africa have only given enough vaccine to cover less than 5% of their populations with a two-dose shot. India has administered enough to cover only about 26%.

The pandemic will end at different times in different places, just as previous outbreaks have, said Erica Charters, associate professor of the history of medicine at Oxford University and the coordinator of a project on how epidemics end. Governments will have to decide how much of the disease they are comfortable living with, she said.

Approaches vary. While some countries are still shooting for zero Covid cases, the world is unlikely to eradicate the virus completely.

Nations like Denmark and Singapore, which have managed to keep cases relatively contained, are already moving toward a post-pandemic future with fewer safety restrictions. Others, such as the U.S. and U.K., are opening up even as infection numbers near records. Meanwhile, China, Hong Kong and New Zealand have vowed to keep vigilantly working to eliminate the virus locally. As a result, they are likely to be among the last places to leave behind the disruption wrought by walling out the pandemic.

“The end process is not going to be uniform,” Charters said. The pandemic “is a biological phenomenon, but it’s also a political and social phenomenon.”

“Even now we have different approaches to it.”

It’s likely to be messy, leaving a lasting legacy for years to come. Until then, most of us will need to brace for many more months in the pandemic’s grip.

“We have to approach it with our eyes wide open and with a great deal of humility,” Osterholm said. “Anybody that thinks we're going to be over this in the next few days or a few months is sorely mistaken.”

We're doomed I tell ye.

[WhileTheChief..]

At Hibs we seem to have trouble enough getting folk through the turnstiles when they only have to scan a barcode.

Ok, so i'll admit to having difficulty on this one!!

You know how there's the bit where you put your phone to be scanned? Well, underneath that there's a metal gap thing that you would have passed your ticket or cash through to a person back in the day.

I'm forever sticking my phone there to be scanned!!

Of course, nothing happens. I try pushing my way in, the light doesn't change colour on the scanner and I shout and swear a bit at the 'stupid thing' before realising my mistake.

I don't learn form it though. Done the same on numerous occasions.

[superfurryhibby]

Ok, so i'll admit to having difficulty on this one!!

You know how there's the bit where you put your phone to be scanned? Well, underneath that there's a metal gap thing that you would have passed your ticket or cash through to a person back in the day.

I'm forever sticking my phone there to be scanned!!

Of course, nothing happens. I try pushing my way in, the light doesn't change colour on the scanner and I shout and swear a bit at the 'stupid thing' before realising my mistake.

I don't learn form it though. Done the same on numerous occasions.

Of course there's that other issue whereby you do the scanning correctly but the scanning device isn't working. Apparently it's been an problem at ER for a number of years.

I even struggle to understand how a device at football will read your vaccine QR and then know how this info links to your season ticket details.

[wookie70]

Hardly a facemask in sight at Tiny. I felt like a leper with my green tartan one and that was in the away end. I would guess around a 1 in 100 at best rate for obeying the rules. I'd love to know the stats for being double vaxxed against those around you wearing face coverings.

I actually got frisked going in at about 11.10am, very Covid friendly and as a 50 odd year old I doubt I was a likely smoke bomb carrier. Fairly typical stewarding where they will over steward the early arrivals but will let the masses through without a second look as they arrive with minutes to go before KO.

Despite Tiny being tiny it didn't feel like a massive risk and far less so than going for a pint in a busy pub.

I'd really like some explanation on why Scotland appears to be different, and at the moment worse, from the other UK nations. Is it general health, schools returning earlier, our gregarious nature who knows. We do appear to be doing worse at least for now. Arguing against myself but is it because passports have been a success in a voluntary application in England, not sure that is possible though given the relative vaccination numbers where we are second only to Wales and only just

[Mr Grieves]

So Vaccine Passports are being discarded in England but still going ahead in Scotland? Have I got that right?



Yes correct.

Not quite...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-58542140

PM: We want to avoid vaccine passports if possible
Boris Johnson has also been asked whether vaccine passports could be used if Covid infections rates and deaths continue to rise.

The prime minister again says he will be "setting it all out tomorrow".

However, he adds: "What we want to do is avoid vaccine passports, if we possibly can.

"That's the course we're on but I think you've got to be prudent and you've got to keep things in reserve in case things change."

There had been plans to make proof of full vaccination mandatory to access nightclubs and large events in England from the end of September - but on Sunday the health secretary said this would not go ahead.

[Peevemor]

Linking the Covid passport and STs is asking for trouble.

In the 6 weeks I've been using a covid passport (and the few events that I've been to, including one in a stadium), the sanitary passport checks are entirely separate from entry tickets.

[Stairway 2 7]

Hardly a facemask in sight at Tiny. I felt like a leper with my green tartan one and that was in the away end. I would guess around a 1 in 100 at best rate for obeying the rules. I'd love to know the stats for being double vaxxed against those around you wearing face coverings.

I actually got frisked going in at about 11.10am, very Covid friendly and as a 50 odd year old I doubt I was a likely smoke bomb carrier. Fairly typical stewarding where they will over steward the early arrivals but will let the masses through without a second look as they arrive with minutes to go before KO.

Despite Tiny being tiny it didn't feel like a massive risk and far less so than going for a pint in a busy pub.

I'd really like some explanation on why Scotland appears to be different, and at the moment worse, from the other UK nations. Is it general health, schools returning earlier, our gregarious nature who knows. We do appear to be doing worse at least for now. Arguing against myself but is it because passports have been a success in a voluntary application in England, not sure that is possible though given the relative vaccination numbers where we are second only to Wales and only just

Less prior immunity. Delta means everyone will catch Covid probably multiple times. England got buttered much worse the previous waves so Scotland had a higher pool of susceptibles. We had much less immunity than the other home nations in June even though our vaccine uptake was the same. The bigger wave for Scotland now means we've just about caught up

It was much preferable to get our immunity up now that last year when England did. The reason they didn't have vaccine protection, so theirs resulted in a higher death rate that we won't match

[Just Alf]

Linking the Covid passport and STs is asking for trouble.

In the 6 weeks I've been using a covid passport (and the few events that I've been to, including one in a stadium), the sanitary passport checks are entirely separate from entry tickets.I think it could be a good idea to be fair....

Basically once your season ticket has been validated by the ticket office then that's it, you've a valid ticket, if you ain't going onto a nightclub later you wouldn't even need to have your vax passport with you.

If you didn't want to email your qr code to the TO then just use the queue where the walk ups will be getting randomly validated.

That's one way of doing it I guess :dunno:

[superfurryhibby]

I think it could be a good idea to be fair....

Basically once your season ticket has been validated by the ticket office then that's it, you've a valid ticket, if you ain't going onto a nightclub later you wouldn't even need to have your vax passport with you.

If you didn't want to email your qr code to the TO then just use the queue where the walk ups will be getting randomly validated.

That's one way of doing it I guess :dunno:

I think the Scottish Government expects all admission to be subject to scanning, walk ups or otherwise. That is one of the concerns voiced by Scottish Football's JRG.

I don't think Hibs will welcome the administrative challenge of fans sending in proof of vaccination to the TO, that would be a logistical nightmare.

[Peevemor]

I think it could be a good idea to be fair....

Basically once your season ticket has been validated by the ticket office then that's it, you've a valid ticket, if you ain't going onto a nightclub later you wouldn't even need to have your vax passport with you.

If you didn't want to email your qr code to the TO then just use the queue where the walk ups will be getting randomly validated.

That's one way of doing it I guess :dunno:

I agree it would be ideal, but there's also the problem of people letting pals use their STs. I've also read countless times on here about people having different problems scanning tickets and linking STs & Covid passes would mean modifying software + additional data input, ie. 2 potential cock-ups.

[Sir David Gray]

Spot checks could be used to check the vaccine passports of football fans, Scotland’s health secretary has said.

Humza Yousaf said the Scottish Government is happy to engage with the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL) and that spot checks are one of the options they are “absolutely” happy to consider.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/vaccine-passport-spot-checks-could-be-considered-at-football-matches?top

[Glory Lurker]

It’s not always the season ticket holders bum that’s on the seat.

That's very true. I've seen kids stand on the seat so they can see better.

[The dalmeny]

We're doomed I tell ye.

yes, let’s spread more fear

[superfurryhibby]

Spot checks could be used to check the vaccine passports of football fans, Scotland’s health secretary has said.

Humza Yousaf said the Scottish Government is happy to engage with the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL) and that spot checks are one of the options they are “absolutely” happy to consider.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/vaccine-passport-spot-checks-could-be-considered-at-football-matches?top

Interesting to read that the Scottish Government are listening to concerns and showing some willingness to compromise on the practicalities of blanket checks.

[Rocky]

I think the Scottish Government expects all admission to be subject to scanning, walk ups or otherwise.

What makes you think that when they acknowledge in the proposal that it would be impractical to scan everyone at large events?

"We will publish guidance to help set out what ‘reasonable measures’ would be proportionate in different settings (for example, what is proportionate on entry to a nightclub of 200 people may not be proportionate – or possible – in an event crowd of 60,000)."

[superfurryhibby]

What makes you think that when they acknowledge in the proposal that it would be impractical to scan everyone at large events?

"We will publish guidance to help set out what ‘reasonable measures’ would be proportionate in different settings (for example, what is proportionate on entry to a nightclub of 200 people may not be proportionate – or possible – in an event crowd of 60,000)."


My understanding is based on statements like this one.

"Scope of the scheme

The scheme will require a person seeking entry to certain venues and settings to show that they have been fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated means vaccinated with a MHRA recognised vaccine in line with the MHRA recommended number of doses for the vaccine used and two weeks has passed for the vaccine to take effect"

Judging from the thread , most people anticipated the approach would be a blanket approach to checks.

[Rocky]

My understanding is based on statements like this one.

"Scope of the scheme

The scheme will require a person seeking entry to certain venues and settings to show that they have been fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated means vaccinated with a MHRA recognised vaccine in line with the MHRA recommended number of doses for the vaccine used and two weeks has passed for the vaccine to take effect"

Judging from the thread , most people anticipated the approach would be a blanket approach to checks.
Well the quote I posted was lifted directly from the original proposal that was published on Thursday before the vote in parliament so perhaps most people didn't actually read it if what you say is true.

[superfurryhibby]

Well the quote I posted was lifted directly from the original proposal that was published on Thursday before the vote in parliament so perhaps most people didn't actually read it if what you say is true.

Yes, so was what I quoted.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-mandatory-vaccine-certification/

[wookie70]

Interesting to read that the Scottish Government are listening to concerns and showing some willingness to compromise on the practicalities of blanket checks.

Good, it seemed to my crazy to have a new system that might make fans stand closely together for a longer period than needed. Nice to hear the SG listen as there hasn't been much evidence of that lately. Spot checks are more sensible but I still hope we abandon the idea all together. I'd be interested to hear what those who went to Tiny thought about how safe they felt. The stairs and smoke bomb was my biggest safety concerns. I have been very careful throughout the pandemic but am loosening that as it simply seems pointless now as the vast majority are in business as usual mode. Short of never seeing anyone and living like a hermit I'll catch covid, who knows what variant as there are two or three in Scotland at present. Passports won't make much difference to that and lockdowns look like they have fallen out of favour with reliance being placed on the vaccine alone. It may become like Chicken Pox where people choose when to get it and may look at low hospital numbers, or think this variant might be better than the next and think now is as good a time as any.

[Moulin Yarns]

If anyone remember the commonwealth games in Glasgow, they set up cordon around the venues to allow for tickets to be checked, surely similar could work on the approach to Easter Road?!

[Rocky]

Yes, so was what I quoted.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-mandatory-vaccine-certification/

I'm not sure the fact that you selectively quoted part of it to support your point proves much, given that the part I quoted contradicts what you were claiming. Some things have more complexity than can be squeezed into a single sentence.

[wookie70]

As JimBHibees has said, the passport should be mapped to a season ticket. That would then allow approved season tickets and would be pretty simple. This would also need a separate queue and process for walk ups though which would no doubt be a slower queue checking both QR Codes and tickets.
Potentially that means Hibs have medical data to store and keep safe. It may not be as simple as people think. IF it is simple then that is a good solution though to the admin and time taken to get in to ER

[Ronniekirk]

So Vaccine Passports are being discarded in England but still going ahead in Scotland? Have I got that right?

For now yes but Boris in his speech today is likely to say it’s still part of Thier winter Covid strategy if needed Along with Mask Wearing and probably a few other wee gems
In the meantime 12 to 15 year olds will get vaccinated
Boris changes his mind do often you don’t know if your coming or going ffs


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[wookie70]

I can't find it now but was there someone in this thread who thought they would not get a Passport as their vaccine was delayed due to vaccine trials. I not that vaccine trials are exempt from the passport scheme so hopefully that will allow them to go to ER without a passport. No idea how that will work in practice though

[superfurryhibby]

I'm not sure the fact that you selectively quoted part of it to support your point proves much, given that the part I quoted contradicts what you were claiming. Some things have more complexity than can be squeezed into a single sentence.


I quoted the key aim as per the proposal. I'm not sure how that is selectively quoting to support my point? :confused: The government acknowledge that they will speak to key stakeholders in order to finalise the details in terms of implementation, but the intention is very clear.


Just to give context, this is from the government's "Proposals for a mandatory COVID-19 vaccination certification scheme for Scotland"

Scope of the scheme

The scheme will require a person seeking entry to certain venues and settings to show that they have been fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated means vaccinated with a MHRA recognised vaccine in line with the MHRA recommended number of doses for the vaccine used and two weeks has passed for the vaccine to take effect

Initially, the scheme will not permit a negative test result to be offered as an alternative to evidence of vaccination, but this will be kept under review. At this stage, we do not consider that this would be appropriate and, indeed, could undermine one of the policy aims of the scheme, which is to increase vaccine uptake. Also, it is important at this stage to prioritise PCR lab capacity for Test and Protect purposes and while promoting regular LFD tests is an extremely important aspect of our overall approach, further work would be required on an optimal approach to incorporating testing, including consideration of the appropriateness of self-testing in this context.

We are working with a range of stakeholders to finalise the design of the scheme. These stakeholders include local government, NHS Boards and businesses/representative organisations in sectors that will be required to implement a certification scheme"

[Rocky]

That's an odd response. I quoted the key aim as per the proposal. I'm not sure how that is selectively quoting to support my point? :confused:
You said this:

"I think the Scottish Government expects all admission to be subject to scanning, walk ups or otherwise"

And used a selective quote from the proposal to back it up, even though it's contradicted by the quote from the same document that I posted.

[superfurryhibby]

You said this:

"I think the Scottish Government expects all admission to be subject to scanning, walk ups or otherwise"

And used a selective quote from the proposal to back it up, even though it's contradicted by the quote from the same document that I posted.

What I said I think is based on what their proposal stated as the key intention of the new statute?

I quoted the government's aim, as per their own published paper.

I'm not sure what you think you're actually debating here?

[Rocky]

What I said I think is based on what their proposal stated as the key intention of the new statute?

I quoted the government's intended aim, as per their own published paper.

I'm not sure what you think you're actually debating here?
I'm afraid I can't help you then, sorry.

[superfurryhibby]

I'm afraid I can't help you then, sorry.

Bizarre.

[Bristolhibby]

Not quite...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-58542140

PM: We want to avoid vaccine passports if possible
Boris Johnson has also been asked whether vaccine passports could be used if Covid infections rates and deaths continue to rise.

The prime minister again says he will be "setting it all out tomorrow".

However, he adds: "What we want to do is avoid vaccine passports, if we possibly can.

"That's the course we're on but I think you've got to be prudent and you've got to keep things in reserve in case things change."

There had been plans to make proof of full vaccination mandatory to access nightclubs and large events in England from the end of September - but on Sunday the health secretary said this would not go ahead.

If Johnson says he might or might not do something. That’s cast iron guarantee for it’s happening. Usually 4 to 6 weeks too late.

J

[Bristolhibby]

If anyone remember the commonwealth games in Glasgow, they set up cordon around the venues to allow for tickets to be checked, surely similar could work on the approach to Easter Road?!

This was also the case at the recent Euros. Albeit with a much smaller crowd.

It can be done, but major logistics (fences, etc) getting Hampden “ready” for its four games.

J

[jgl07]

As JimBHibees has said, the passport should be mapped to a season ticket. That would then allow approved season tickets and would be pretty simple. This would also need a separate queue and process for walk ups though which would no doubt be a slower queue checking both QR Codes and tickets.
And who will be expected to provide (and pay for) the staff to do this? Chacking 15,000 people at Easter Road

I still haven't got an online proof of vaccination after around three months. People in England have had those for months, yet they have backed off imposing vaccine passports.

It's going to be fun trying to get into Ibrox on 3rd October! and the Dundee United match at Easter Road two weeks later. Will we have to bring the pieces of paper showing the 'proof of vaccination'?

I smell a shambles coming up or else the clubs will play lip service to the rules.

[tamig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58536199

Doncaster saying spot checks would be the only way to go. What would happen to someone who got into the game but doesn't have a vaccine certificate? Would it be the classed same as breaking lockdown restrictions?

He also told us it would be armageddon when newhun had to start from the bottom. And aramgeddon again when Covid shut the game down last year.

[JimBHibees]

And who will be expected to provide (and pay for) the staff to do this? Chacking 15,000 people at Easter Road

I still haven't got an online proof of vaccination after around three months. People in England have had those for months, yet they have backed off imposing vaccine passports.

It's going to be fun trying to get into Ibrox on 3rd October! and the Dundee United match at Easter Road two weeks later. Will we have to bring the pieces of paper showing the 'proof of vaccination'?

I smell a shambles coming up or else the clubs will play lip service to the rules.

You can download it to your phone

[CentreLine]

Personally speaking I only posted what I did as someone posted an article which someone couldn't read due to a paywall.

And very much appreciated SDG. Really interesting article 👍🏻

[tamig]

And who will be expected to provide (and pay for) the staff to do this? Chacking 15,000 people at Easter Road

I still haven't got an online proof of vaccination after around three months. People in England have had those for months, yet they have backed off imposing vaccine passports.

It's going to be fun trying to get into Ibrox on 3rd October! and the Dundee United match at Easter Road two weeks later. Will we have to bring the pieces of paper showing the 'proof of vaccination'?

I smell a shambles coming up or else the clubs will play lip service to the rules.
Get on here and you’ll have it in a couple of minutes -

https://www.nhsinform.scot/covid-19-vaccine/after-your-vaccine/get-a-record-of-your-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-status

[CentreLine]

I agree it would be ideal, but there's also the problem of people letting pals use their STs. I've also read countless times on here about people having different problems scanning tickets and linking STs & Covid passes would mean modifying software + additional data input, ie. 2 potential cock-ups.

Not really that difficult. How about something along these lines:

A significant number of ST holders live close enough to ER to attend at the ticket office with their proof in advance of their next game. Having done that their ST will be authorised and that’s it.
Yes some people will lend their ticket to others. There will always be infected people in the ground, it’s just a fact if life. However, it’s likely the borrower will be vaccinated. Inevitably there will be a small number of people not but the threat is significantly reduced regardless. It’s definitely more efficient than spot checks.

Other ST holders, unable to visit the ticket office in advance, would have to arrive early enough at their first visit to the ground to provide their “proof” and their ticket would then be similarly authorised.

Finally, the walk-up ticket buyer has to be on the database. As each purchase tickets, on the first occasion, they must provide their proof. After that their ticket purchases are authorised.

QR codes would be scanned on that first occasion and that would flag up any attempted duplication meaning multiple use becomes impossible.

Now that’s right off the cuff. A little additional thought to iron out issues and it can’t be that difficult to make workable.

[wookie70]

Not really that difficult. How about something along these lines:

A significant number of ST holders live close enough to ER to attend at the ticket office with their proof in advance of their next game. Having done that their ST will be authorised and that’s it.
Yes some people will lend their ticket to others. There will always be infected people in the ground, it’s just a fact if life. However, it’s likely the borrower will be vaccinated. Inevitably there will be a small number of people not but the threat is significantly reduced regardless. It’s definitely more efficient than spot checks.

Other ST holders, unable to visit the ticket office in advance, would have to arrive early enough at their first visit to the ground to provide their “proof” and their ticket would then be similarly authorised.

Finally, the walk-up ticket buyer has to be on the database. As each purchase tickets, on the first occasion, they must provide their proof. After that their ticket purchases are authorised.

QR codes would be scanned on that first occasion and that would flag up any attempted duplication meaning multiple use becomes impossible.

Now that’s right off the cuff. A little additional thought to iron out issues and it can’t be that difficult to make workable.

Are Hibs databases set up to deal with medical information with the correct security and disposal regimes. How much will it cost to add that into the data base and can it be done by the steward when fans don't have the time to visit the TO. Does it need doing once by steward or every time etc etc.

I doubt there will be any system put in place like the one you suggest. If it is every ticket getting swiped I hope it is robust and every name on a ticket is cross referenced with the passport. No point doing it otherwise, glad I go to ER early for games

[hibbysam]

Are Hibs databases set up to deal with medical information with the correct security and disposal regimes. How much will it cost to add that into the data base and can it be done by the steward when fans don't have the time to visit the TO. Does it need doing once by steward or every time etc etc.

I doubt there will be any system put in place like the one you suggest. If it is every ticket getting swiped I hope it is robust and every name on a ticket is cross referenced with the passport. No point doing it otherwise, glad I go to ER early for games

Looks like it’s going to be ‘spot checks’ after Doncaster said we can do that. Can’t see it making any difference if that’s the case, checking every 4/5 tickets I’d expect most will take that chance. Get turned away from one you turn up at the next turnstile, and so on until you don’t get checked. Only way to minimise spread is through PCR but we don’t have that infrastructure so it’ll never stop. Be interesting to see how nearly 70k at murrayfield or 60k at parkhead manage (when it’s already a nightmare for home supporters to get into there).

[CentreLine]

Are Hibs databases set up to deal with medical information with the correct security and disposal regimes. How much will it cost to add that into the data base and can it be done by the steward when fans don't have the time to visit the TO. Does it need doing once by steward or every time etc etc.

I doubt there will be any system put in place like the one you suggest. If it is every ticket getting swiped I hope it is robust and every name on a ticket is cross referenced with the passport. No point doing it otherwise, glad I go to ER early for games

Doesn’t need to be. Simply authorised or not. I’m pretty sure it’s already set up for that.
Lock all cards and unlock after proof of vaccine x2. Medical evidence inferred but not recorded.
I’ve no idea what any reader records to but I’d have thought it was a government record rather than individual company. That being the case there would be no chance of multiples ticket application fraud but also no medical information held by the club.

[wookie70]

Doesn’t need to be. Simply authorised or not. I’m pretty sure it’s already set up for that.
Lock all cards and unlock after proof of vaccine x2. Medical evidence inferred but not recorded.
I’ve no idea what any reader records to but I’d have thought it was a government record rather than individual company. That being the case there would be no chance of multiples ticket application fraud but also no medical information held by the club.

Vaccine passports have sell by dates, exemptions may not. A database where authorisation was given or not on one a single basis would surely need another column. You would have to say why a ticket was locked and if it is to do with vaccines that may be considered medical information. I'd be very surprised if it is something the club can do without any work, might not be much work and might not be deemed to be medical information and if not then hope it can be a single check.

[CentreLine]

Vaccine passports have sell by dates, exemptions may not. A database where authorisation was given or not on one a single basis would surely need another column. You would have to say why a ticket was locked and if it is to do with vaccines that may be considered medical information. I'd be very surprised if it is something the club can do without any work, might not be much work and might not be deemed to be medical information and if not then hope it can be a single check.

Yeh, that’s the point I’m making. It seems to me that not a lot of work and a bit of lateral thinking and this would not be that difficult. The club retain ownership and control of our STs so locking a card until a requirement was met, you would think, would not be all that difficult.

[wookie70]

Yeh, that’s the point I’m making. It seems to me that not a lot of work and a bit of lateral thinking and this would not be that difficult. The club retain ownership and control of our STs so locking a card until a requirement was met, you would think, would not be all that difficult.

And the point I am making is, you would think, isn't the same as you know. I obviously extend that to myself as I don't know for sure but I get the feeling it won't be as simple as supporters are suggesting. If it is then the club should crack on and make people's lives a tiny bit easier.

[wookie70]

Javid announces booster programme for Vaccines based on same timetable as first rollout and taking place six months from second vaccine. Basically saying vaccines have a reduced effectiveness against transmission and the symptoms of Covid. How will that work for Passports. I suspect this won't make a difference as this is about compliance first and foremost. I would view today's announcement to mean that everyone has to be double jagged and the second the second jag is six months out of date then the passport is out of date.

The mixing of the vaccines also brings survey that related to Pfizer more into play in terms of those with natural antibodies perhaps having less chance of transmitting the virus.

[Blaster]

Javid announces booster programme for Vaccines based on same timetable as first rollout and taking place six months from second vaccine. Basically saying vaccines have a reduced effectiveness against transmission and the symptoms of Covid. How will that work for Passports. I suspect this won't make a difference as this is about compliance first and foremost. I would view today's announcement to mean that everyone has to be double jagged and the second the second jag is six months out of date then the passport is out of date.

The mixing of the vaccines also brings survey that related to Pfizer more into play in terms of those with natural antibodies perhaps having less chance of transmitting the virus.

He summarised the details from JCVI earlier which said there appeared to be a slight decrease in the effectiveness after 6 months. Not huge but makes a reasonable difference in the priority groups who are most at risk.

More a precautionary measure over the winter period for those most at risk.

[ancient hibee]

Javid announces booster programme for Vaccines based on same timetable as first rollout and taking place six months from second vaccine. Basically saying vaccines have a reduced effectiveness against transmission and the symptoms of Covid. How will that work for Passports. I suspect this won't make a difference as this is about compliance first and foremost. I would view today's announcement to mean that everyone has to be double jagged and the second the second jag is six months out of date then the passport is out of date.

The mixing of the vaccines also brings survey that related to Pfizer more into play in terms of those with natural antibodies perhaps having less chance of transmitting the virus.

You would be wrong because the booster jag will not be for everyone double jagged.

[jacomo]

You would be wrong because the booster jag will not be for everyone double jagged.


:agree:

Boosters for under 50s only if they are classed as belonging to a vulnerable group or work in a healthcare setting. I think.

Tbh I find Javid’s voice so grating that I switched off while he was talking.