Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

[wookie70]

What evidence have you got that the double jabbed appear to be completely fearless? There's a stronger case to say it's the unvaccinated who are fearless, otherwise they would have got the vaccine. How are the double jabbed any more likely to come along regardless of how they feel? You're making stuff up.

Sounds like you are saying distancing should be reintroduced. Surely you're not suggesting it is better to go back to that so that the unvaccinated can attend?

What are the behaviours you're referring to that are pretty much gone?

From what I can see behaviour, excepting masks, is pretty much what it would be if there was no Covid. That is in all age groups so given 82% of adults are vaccinated then the vast majority I witness when I have to nip to the shops are vaccinated. If I did, I was probably wrong to suggest the vaccinated are more likely to have changed behaviours than those that haven't been jagged. However, I remember the way many colleagues and other friends and acquaintances changed habits after vaccination by going out more and joining mates they hadn't seen for ages. What I am saying is behaviours, most of which were very effective in stopping the spread, have been forgotten and ignored en masse and the vast majority of those who are ignoring any distancing and heading into indoor areas etc with mates are vaccinated. Given that I'm absolutely saying that distancing should be reintroduced. It is by far the most effective way of stopping the spread. If the government care about reducing numbers of citizens dying they need to consider more lockdowns, they are more bothered about commerce than death of citizens though.

I have no issues with actions which will have obvious benefits even if it means I lose some liberty, as long as that is done with equality in mind. Most of the restrictions were done with rules that I could understand and exemptions were generally about what role in society you had. I think I supported them all even the ones that seemed senseless. I could buy into that and it worked incredibly well. This measure won't have much if any impact on Covid imo. The virus is gaining strength and another new strain is already in England. The vaccine is losing the race at least in terms of people being infected. Yes, the vaccine has been very positive but to me the time is right to think about bringing back distancing and closing down pubs, clubs and other indoor venues that are not essential. Then maybe have a look at outdoor activities. This new rule has nothing to do with the spread of Covid though imo.

[ancient hibee]

Is it not a major problem that football clubs or the SFA in the case of Hampden do not have IT systems to scan the certificates?

[Sir David Gray]

The vote has happened, there will be no 8 week notice.

There will be thousands of fans in your position, and those who have no jabs at all, who now find themselves with tickets and unable to get in. Every one of them must be offered a full refund, as the goalposts have moved.

As much as I agree with the introduction of this measure I do agree that any season ticket holder who is unvaccinated and therefore banned from Easter Road absolutely must get a refund due to there being such a fundamental change in the condition of entry since the season tickets went on sale.

It's not Hibs' fault and my sympathy for those who have refused to be vaccinated is very limited but refunds will need to be offered here I'd have thought.

[The dalmeny]

From what I can see behaviour, excepting masks, is pretty much what it would be if there was no Covid. That is in all age groups so given 82% of adults are vaccinated then the vast majority I witness when I have to nip to the shops are vaccinated. If I did, I was probably wrong to suggest the vaccinated are more likely to have changed behaviours than those that haven't been jagged. However, I remember the way many colleagues and other friends and acquaintances changed habits after vaccination by going out more and joining mates they hadn't seen for ages. What I am saying is behaviours, most of which were very effective in stopping the spread, have been forgotten and ignored en masse and the vast majority of those who are ignoring any distancing and heading into indoor areas etc with mates are vaccinated. Given that I'm absolutely saying that distancing should be reintroduced. It is by far the most effective way of stopping the spread. If the government care about reducing numbers of citizens dying they need to consider more lockdowns, they are more bothered about commerce than death of citizens though.

I have no issues with actions which will have obvious benefits even if it means I lose some liberty, as long as that is done with equality in mind. Most of the restrictions were done with rules that I could understand and exemptions were generally about what role in society you had. I think I supported them all even the ones that seemed senseless. I could buy into that and it worked incredibly well. This measure won't have much if any impact on Covid imo. The virus is gaining strength and another new strain is already in England. The vaccine is losing the race at least in terms of people being infected. Yes, the vaccine has been very positive but to me the time is right to think about bringing back distancing and closing down pubs, clubs and other indoor venues that are not essential. Then maybe have a look at outdoor activities. This new rule has nothing to do with the spread of Covid though imo.

total melodrama

[Rocky]

Not read previous posts and not sure if this has been mentioned, but they might have gave us at least 8 weeks notice, so that those people who haven't had any jags, can go get double jabbed in time for this coming into place. I just bought a scotland ticket the other day and now won't be able to attend as ive only had one jab. Dissapointing news, they are now pretty much forcing you into it which I'm a bit uncomfortable with.

I wonder if they might include a grace period of ten weeks or so where people can be allowed in provided they've had a first jag plus have evidence of a negative lateral flow test. Might be too complicated to administer though.

[jgl07]

Yeah, there's stuff that doesn't appear to make much sense. In saying that I suppose they have to draw the line somewhere.

As an aside, passes here were meant for all indoor public events of over 50 people. Most cinemas started putting on pass free showings restricted to less than 50 people (no big deal in July/August). That loophole was quickly closed.

As for Easter Road (for example). I've seen people rightly saying that a crowd could be borderline 10k so what happens. Here it's the capacity of the event that counts, not the eventual attendance.
That could be dealt with by some clubs by closing a stand ‘for urgent repairs’! It will be easy for Dundee United, Dundee, Motherwell, and St Mirren to comply. Ross County are probably exempt.

The crash stupidity of using raw capacity regardless of the spacing sums up how Scottish governance has been dumbed down.

Has anyone produced an iota of evidence that COVID transmission happens out of doors in a football stadium? If so I haven’t seen it.

[green day]

The vote has happened, there will be no 8 week notice.

There will be thousands of fans in your position, and those who have no jabs at all, who now find themselves with tickets and unable to get in. Every one of them must be offered a full refund, as the goalposts have moved.

Perhaps they should have got themselves jagged and not been stupid? It's been obvious for several weeks that this was happening, in England and here too.

And, based on population numbers vaccinated there is no chance there are thousands impacted at Easter road.

Honestly, some people just want to make a drama where none exists.

[wookie70]

As much as I agree with the introduction of this measure I do agree that any season ticket holder who is unvaccinated and therefore banned from Easter Road absolutely must get a refund due to there being such a fundamental change in the condition of entry since the season tickets went on sale.

It's not Hibs' fault and my sympathy for those who have refused to be vaccinated is very limited but refunds will need to be offered here I'd have thought. Why restrict full refunds to the unvaccinated

[gbhibby]

Easy peasey- set up a body scanner at the turnstiles that can detect the injected chip.
Saw an interview recently with an American gentleman who still believes that, and is not getting the jab because of that.

[JammyDoidger]

The reason it is being brought in by beginning of october is because everyone could have been double jagged by that time. I accept this is not the case for eveyone but the vast majority have had the opportunity.

Understand what your saying, but a lot like me probably were in no rush to get the vaccine as it doesn't actually stop you passing covid on as such..I've had covid and got over it, that's the reason I was in no rush in truth. Not they've sprung this on us, I went and got my first jab a few days ago. Forcing my hand really. Think it's wrong to sort of divide the nation and treat folk differently just because you have or haven't had a jag. But here we are eh.

[Juniper Greens]

Understand what your saying, but a lot like me probably were in no rush to get the vaccine as it doesn't actually stop you passing covid on as such..I've had covid and got over it, that's the reason I was in no rush in truth. Not they've sprung this on us, I went and got my first jab a few days ago. Forcing my hand really. Think it's wrong to sort of divide the nation and treat folk differently just because you have or haven't had a jag. But here we are eh.

I don't think its been sprung on us. Its been coming for months

[Eyrie]

The vote has happened, there will be no 8 week notice.

There will be thousands of fans in your position, and those who have no jabs at all, who now find themselves with tickets and unable to get in. Every one of them must be offered a full refund, as the goalposts have moved.

Why?

Like many of us, I bought a season ticket last year and wasn't able to attend a single game. Not just games at the start of the season, which was expected, but the entire season which wasn't.

There won't be any refunds if we go back to closed grounds (not that I anticipate that happening).

[jeffers]

As much as I agree with the introduction of this measure I do agree that any season ticket holder who is unvaccinated and therefore banned from Easter Road absolutely must get a refund due to there being such a fundamental change in the condition of entry since the season tickets went on sale.

It's not Hibs' fault and my sympathy for those who have refused to be vaccinated is very limited but refunds will need to be offered here I'd have thought.

They’ll still be able to watch the games on Hibs TV - it was good enough for those of us who missed out on the Ross County ballot :duck:

[May21/05/216]

Another lock down is coming the hospitals are at breaking point so it makes the certificates a waste of time really there is nothing that the politicians or scientists can do about it its cruel world we live in at the moment

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[jgl07]

I don't think its been sprung on us. Its been coming for months
Coming for months? I haven’t even got evidence of vaccination on my phone yet.

This is months after England. I just have a sheet of paper with no photo ID with no real security.

I really wish they would have waited for the technology to be sorted out before pushing through something that was always going to be hard to enforce.

[green day]

Coming for months? I haven’t even got evidence of vaccination on my phone yet.

This is months after England. I just have a sheet of paper with no photo ID with no real security.

I really wish they would have waited for the technology to be sorted out before pushing through something that was always going to be hard to enforce.

You can get a QR code of your status since last Friday. An app arrives at the end of September.

England still hasn't worked out what a nightclub is either, not a lot of difference tbh.

[Ronniekirk]

Why?

Like many of us, I bought a season ticket last year and wasn't able to attend a single game. Not just games at the start of the season, which was expected, but the entire season which wasn't.

There won't be any refunds if we go back to closed grounds (not that I anticipate that happening).

The measures being introduced now are to stop us going back to more draconian measures like no fans in grounds
But Nicola is on record as saying vaccine passports wouldn’t be introduced ,so I can understand why some people are not happy
It is a form of coercion to force peoples hands But where next if a sizeable number still decide they don’t want to get a vaccine that isn’t mandatory


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[The Spaceman]

Nobody is forcing you to go to a football match or a concert/festival/nightclub. Just like nobody is forcing you to have a vaccine.

[Phil MaGlass]

The measures being introduced now are to stop us going back to more draconian measures like no fans in grounds
But Nicola is on record as saying vaccine passports wouldn’t be introduced ,so I can understand why some people are not happy
It is a form of coercion to force peoples hands But where next if a sizeable number still decide they don’t want to get a vaccine that isn’t mandatory


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you show me where she said that, as all I can find is "she hand’t changed her mind and had said in Parliament on multiple occasions that the Government is “considering the issue”.
I may have missed it or got quotes mixed up.

[Sir David Gray]

Why restrict full refunds to the unvaccinated

Because they're the only people who will be legally unable to attend.

[JammyDoidger]

Nobody is forcing you to go to a football match or a concert/festival/nightclub. Just like nobody is forcing you to have a vaccine.

Bit of a silly statement to be fair. Football is a massive part of people's life's, that was taken from us for a full year, now your having it taken away unless you go for a vaccine, it's a bit out of order like, about time we just got used to the fact that this virus is going nowhere, our life's need to continue. If you want the vaccine in order to give yourself better protection get the vaccine, if you don't think you need it or don't want it, don't get it, simple as that. The vaccine has been made available to those who wish to take it, not much more we can do.

[green day]

Because they're the only people who will be legally unable to attend.

Unvaccinated people with medical exemption will be allowed to attend. As will those younger fans who have not been vaccinated.

I think what you mean is people who have intentionally decided not to be vaccinated will be unable to attend.

And that's the point of the legislation.

[neil7908]

Bit of a silly statement to be fair. Football is a massive part of people's life's, that was taken from us for a full year, now your having it taken away unless you go for a vaccine, it's a bit out of order like, about time we just got used to the fact that this virus is going nowhere, our life's need to continue. If you want the vaccine in order to give yourself better protection get the vaccine, if you don't think you need it or don't want it, don't get it, simple as that. The vaccine has been made available to those who wish to take it, not much more we can do.

Not much more we can do? Except for the thing that we are doing you mean?

[Sir David Gray]

Unvaccinated people with medical exemption will be allowed to attend. As will those younger fans who have not been vaccinated.

I think what you mean is people who have intentionally decided not to be vaccinated will be unable to attend.

And that's the point of the legislation.

Yes that's what I meant, sorry I thought I had been clear in my earlier post.

[calumhibee1]

As much as I agree with the introduction of this measure I do agree that any season ticket holder who is unvaccinated and therefore banned from Easter Road absolutely must get a refund due to there being such a fundamental change in the condition of entry since the season tickets went on sale.

It's not Hibs' fault and my sympathy for those who have refused to be vaccinated is very limited but refunds will need to be offered here I'd have thought.

I’m not sure about that. It’s not Hibs that have changed anything, it’s a government enforced rule. Hibs haven’t changed conditions of entry, it’s just become ‘illegal’ (not sure if it’s technically a law, but it doesn’t change the point i’m making) now in Scotland to enter a mass attended event without a vaccine.

People still have the option of going to get vaccines to allow them entry.

Hibs will absolutely run the risk of pissing off/alienating some people by not giving them a refund but I’m not sure these people would really have a leg to stand on should Hibs decide they aren’t giving refunds.

[blackpoolhibs]

Bit of a silly statement to be fair. Football is a massive part of people's life's, that was taken from us for a full year, now your having it taken away unless you go for a vaccine, it's a bit out of order like, about time we just got used to the fact that this virus is going nowhere, our life's need to continue. If you want the vaccine in order to give yourself better protection get the vaccine, if you don't think you need it or don't want it, don't get it, simple as that. The vaccine has been made available to those who wish to take it, not much more we can do.

Tough eh, there will be other things unvaxed people wont be able to do either. Make your mind up if football is that important to you or not, if it is then take the vaccine, if not dont, nobody is forcing you to do either.

[calumhibee1]

Bit of a silly statement to be fair. Football is a massive part of people's life's, that was taken from us for a full year, now your having it taken away unless you go for a vaccine, it's a bit out of order like, about time we just got used to the fact that this virus is going nowhere, our life's need to continue. If you want the vaccine in order to give yourself better protection get the vaccine, if you don't think you need it or don't want it, don't get it, simple as that. The vaccine has been made available to those who wish to take it, not much more we can do.

Tough luck. You’re not being forced to do anything. You can choose not to have it should you wish.

If you don’t want to do a driving test you don’t have to. But you won’t get to drive a car like all the people that did do one. Why? Because you’d be a danger to everyone else. The exact same principles apply here. This isn’t some removal of people’s human rights as is being suggested, it’s the only way to keep people safe.

If you don’t think you need the vaccine then you’re a selfish idiot who shouldn’t be allowed to put others in danger.

75% of folk in hospital with COVID are unvaccinated even though they only account for 10% of the population. If they’ve not got the brains to get the vaccine then it’s time to take the decision out their hands and not allow these folk to go around infecting each other/the people that have done their bit by getting the vaccine. These folk that are refusing to get the vaccine are directly and/or indirectly going to cause thousands of people to lose their lives.

[LunasBoots]

Coming for months? I haven’t even got evidence of vaccination on my phone yet.

This is months after England. I just have a sheet of paper with no photo ID with no real security.

I really wish they would have waited for the technology to be sorted out before pushing through something that was always going to be hard to enforce.

Yup, need time to sort it out, know a few folk double jabbed but can't access the NHS inform site with there records and when you phone them and can't remember details the folk in the line say they can't therefore help you, government need to come up with something so that all vaccinated people can have the access to the details they need.

[JammyDoidger]

Not much more we can do? Except for the thing that we are doing you mean?

They are back handedly forcing folk to get a jag or else they'll have no life, here's one for you. What if a footballer hasn't had both jags? Will he not be able to do his job?

[The dalmeny]

Understand what your saying, but a lot like me probably were in no rush to get the vaccine as it doesn't actually stop you passing covid on as such..I've had covid and got over it, that's the reason I was in no rush in truth. Not they've sprung this on us, I went and got my first jab a few days ago. Forcing my hand really. Think it's wrong to sort of divide the nation and treat folk differently just because you have or haven't had a jag. But here we are eh.

Did you get an appointment but not to go then decide after all you would and just go to a pop up or something? No really sure about the passport thing myself, lots of variables

[calumhibee1]

They are back handedly forcing folk to get a jag or else they'll have no life, here's one for you. What if a footballer hasn't had both jags? Will he not be able to do his job?

For the vast majority of people you’ll be able to do pretty much anything other than go to the football and even then you’ll only not be able to go to games with 10000 or more people.

It’s hardly having no life, is it.

[aarsan]

No need to be double jabbed.
Just take a pic on your phone of someone else's certificate and use it.

[hibbysam]

Another lock down is coming the hospitals are at breaking point so it makes the certificates a waste of time really there is nothing that the politicians or scientists can do about it its cruel world we live in at the moment

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There is, they could close the schools.

[JammyDoidger]

Did you get an appointment but not to go then decide after all you would and just go to a pop up or something? No really sure about the passport thing myself, lots of variables

Got an appointment, but I came down with covid just before it, so had to wait a bit before getting it.

[calumhibee1]

The measures being introduced now are to stop us going back to more draconian measures like no fans in grounds
But Nicola is on record as saying vaccine passports wouldn’t be introduced ,so I can understand why some people are not happy
It is a form of coercion to force peoples hands But where next if a sizeable number still decide they don’t want to get a vaccine that isn’t mandatory


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If people still don’t decide to get one then it gets tightened even further to include bars and restaurants etc.

After that then the unvaccinated are essentially in lockdown anyway.

Tbh, it should include bars and restaurants already imo.

[BILLYHIBS]

No need to be double jabbed.
Just take a pic on your phone of someone else's certificate and use it.
Sorry but why anyone would want to enter Easter Road without being double vaccinated and having been checked for Covid is beyond me

Simply not worth it for many reasons

[Sir David Gray]

I’m not sure about that. It’s not Hibs that have changed anything, it’s a government enforced rule. Hibs haven’t changed conditions of entry, it’s just become ‘illegal’ (not sure if it’s technically a law, but it doesn’t change the point i’m making) now in Scotland to enter a mass attended event without a vaccine.

People still have the option of going to get vaccines to allow them entry.

Hibs will absolutely run the risk of pissing off/alienating some people by not giving them a refund but I’m not sure these people would really have a leg to stand on should Hibs decide they aren’t giving refunds.

It will be an interesting one if someone decided to challenge any refusal to offer a refund.

I'd imagine Hibs' lawyers will be going through the Ts and Cs very carefully to check if there's any potential loopholes.

The only thing I'd say in response to people having the option to get vaccinated to allow them entry is that this law is coming into force in 3 weeks' time, if you're currently unvaccinated and this news has made you change your mind, it will take 8 weeks for you to be fully vaccinated.

I do understand the counter argument to that though which is that everyone over 18 has had the opportunity to get fully vaccinated and it is their fault for leaving it this long but if this is supposed to be the incentive to get people vaccinated then maybe we should be rewarding people who decide to get their first dose over the next couple of weeks?

[Stairway 2 7]

No need to be double jabbed.
Just take a pic on your phone of someone else's certificate and use it.

Name on the app would need to be same as the ticket

[calumhibee1]

It will be an interesting one if someone decided to challenge any refusal to offer a refund.

I'd imagine Hibs' lawyers will be going through the Ts and Cs very carefully to check if there's any potential loopholes.

The only thing I'd say in response to people having the option to get vaccinated to allow them entry is that this lW is coming into force in 3 weeks' time, if you're currently unvaccinated and this news has made you change your mind, it will take 8 weeks for you to be fully vaccinated.

I do understand the counter argument to that though which is that everyone over 18 has had the opportunity to get fully vaccinated and it is their fault for leaving it this long but if this is supposed to be the incentive to get people vaccinated then maybe we should be rewarding people who decide to get their first dose over the next couple of weeks?

I’d agree with your last point, if there’s going to be anything that will trip Hibs up here in terms of refunds then it would be the 10 week period between first jag and fully vaxxed. Other than that though I think Hibs would be well within their rights to say “nothing to do with us, we’ve not changed any of our Ts and Cs”.

[The dalmeny]

Got an appointment, but I came down with covid just before it, so had to wait a bit before getting it.

hope you got over it alright. No much you can do about that. I’m surprised they’ve brought the passport thing in so promptly. You might have though 10 weeks or so so guys like you could get their second. (I thought it would be after the November rugby)

[JammyDoidger]

It will be an interesting one if someone decided to challenge any refusal to offer a refund.

I'd imagine Hibs' lawyers will be going through the Ts and Cs very carefully to check if there's any potential loopholes.

The only thing I'd say in response to people having the option to get vaccinated to allow them entry is that this law is coming into force in 3 weeks' time, if you're currently unvaccinated and this news has made you change your mind, it will take 8 weeks for you to be fully vaccinated.

I do understand the counter argument to that though which is that everyone over 18 has had the opportunity to get fully vaccinated and it is their fault for leaving it this long but if this is supposed to be the incentive to get people vaccinated then maybe we should be rewarding people who decide to get their first dose over the next couple of weeks?

This, exactly.

[May21/05/216]

There is, they could close the schools.The schools will be included in the lockdown I think as they are what's driving the surge at the moment and then the kids infect the adults and so it goes on hopefully the lockdowns are short ones because it's my opinion that we will never get to grips with this horrible covid for at least 3 years minimum that's my thoughts on it

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[The dalmeny]

Name on the app would need to be same as the ticket

Although slightly different my mate bought 5 season passes for the rugby, they are all in his name, wonder how that will work.

[calumhibee1]

Although slightly different my mate bought 5 season passes for the rugby, they are all in his name, wonder how that will work.

If it’s anything like Easter Road then 4 of them will be effectively useless if they get over 10k I’d imagine unless he can get whatever team he bought them for to reallocate them to different names.

[The dalmeny]

The schools will be included in the lockdown I think as they are what's driving the surge at the moment and then the kids infect the adults and so it goes on hopefully the lockdowns are short ones because it's my opinion that we will never get to grips with this horrible covid for at least 3 years minimum that's my thoughts on it

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more melodrama

[Ronniekirk]

Can you show me where she said that, as all I can find is "she hand’t changed her mind and had said in Parliament on multiple occasions that the Government is “considering the issue”.
I may have missed it or got quotes mixed up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/863f6c80829dd9f12272f3bbcc76fd38.jpg

[Moulin Yarns]

Is it not a major problem that football clubs or the SFA in the case of Hampden do not have IT systems to scan the certificates?

I've a QR reader on my phone, I do Parkrun and they scan my barcode with a mobile phone. The vast majority of us have the technology. So long as the scan shows a positive or negative response to your vaccine passport then it will be easy.

My business has a QR code that automatically opens my website when scanned.

[neil7908]

They are back handedly forcing folk to get a jag or else they'll have no life, here's one for you. What if a footballer hasn't had both jags? Will he not be able to do his job?

Does going not going to the football mean you have no life? Better tell that to 98% (thereabouts) of the country that won't be going to a game this weekend that their life has no meaning.

And the footballer won't be sitting next to me in the stand for 90 mins, coughing behind on the way to the toilet or shouting and screaming next to my face when the ref does something they don't like. So I'm not really bothered and it's not relevant given the rules are in place to protect people from covid.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/863f6c80829dd9f12272f3bbcc76fd38.jpg


i'm not sure but is their not a difference between vaccine passports and vaccination certificates ?


i've also read some baffling posts on here thinking a vaccination certificate/QR code on the mobile somehow has a persons whole medical record on it, it's just a certificate to say folk have had the vaccine/which one etc...nothing more, one earlier post indicated he didn't want a steward knowing he had herpes(or something like that) years ago ffs :hilarious

[Moulin Yarns]

Because they're the only people who will be legally unable to attend.

Only if they are one of the estimated 4,500 who, for real medical reasons, are unable to be vaccinated. Those who choose not to deserve nothing!

[Inconsequential]

Sorry but why anyone would want to enter Easter Road without being double vaccinated and having been checked for Covid is beyond me

Simply not worth it for many reasons Plus committing fraud is not recommended and I hope that would be severely dealt with by the authorities.
Honestly, there are some roasters out there....:greengrin

[The dalmeny]

If it’s anything like Easter Road then 4 of them will be effectively useless if they get over 10k I’d imagine unless he can get whatever team he bought them for to reallocate them to different names.

not so sure, iirc the tickets sold by rugby clubs have the club not individual names so I suspect it’ll just he up to the holder to show their passport. Still getting a bit off topic so I’ll park that.

[Rocky]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/863f6c80829dd9f12272f3bbcc76fd38.jpg

That's from December 2020 and she specifically said that one of the reasons for not introducing them at that time was that they had no evidence the Pfizer vaccine prevented / reduced onward transmission. It's almost as if her policy position changed in light of developments in the state of the pandemic and emerging scientific evidence. Disgrace imo, she should have set a policy in March 2020 and stuck to it.

[May21/05/216]

more melodramaGlad you think it's more melodrama I hope your correct but I think I'm correct its only my opinion cheers

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[007]

It will be an interesting one if someone decided to challenge any refusal to offer a refund.

I'd imagine Hibs' lawyers will be going through the Ts and Cs very carefully to check if there's any potential loopholes.

The only thing I'd say in response to people having the option to get vaccinated to allow them entry is that this law is coming into force in 3 weeks' time, if you're currently unvaccinated and this news has made you change your mind, it will take 8 weeks for you to be fully vaccinated.

I do understand the counter argument to that though which is that everyone over 18 has had the opportunity to get fully vaccinated and it is their fault for leaving it this long but if this is supposed to be the incentive to get people vaccinated then maybe we should be rewarding people who decide to get their first dose over the next couple of weeks?

We were told last season that we were getting all the games live on Hibs TV until we were allowed back into ER. I think it was a similar message when the STs went on sale for this season. Given that's the case then I'd imagine any T&Cs would cover that scenario. The vaccine passport situation effectively puts the unvaccinated back into that situation where they'll have to watch on Hibs TV until they have a passport (if they decide to get the vaccine). Potentially the T&Cs might have be worded in such a way that they cover this. I'd be very surprised if Hibs are on the hook for refunds when it is the government who have introduced the vaccine passport.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Sorry but why anyone would want to enter Easter Road without being double vaccinated and having been checked for Covid is beyond me

Simply not worth it for many reasons


it would be terrible if some unvaccinated poster reading this posters brilliant irresponsible advice ended up sitting next to him, said unvaccinated reader may just be a carrier....god that would be terribly unlucky :agree:

[aarsan]

Plus committing fraud is not recommended and I hope that would be severely dealt with by the authorities.
Honestly, there are some roasters out there....:greengrin
What !!!!

[Sir David Gray]

Only if they are one of the estimated 4,500 who, for real medical reasons, are unable to be vaccinated. Those who choose not to deserve nothing!

Yes I have a fear that by me saying what I did that I am coming across as siding with people who have chosen not to get vaccinated. I am not and I agree with vaccination being required in order to enter certain settings, if anything I think it should be extended to places like pubs and restaurants as well.

All I was saying was that when people bought their season tickets 4 or 5 months ago there was no such rule which stated vaccination would be a requirement for entry into the stadium. In fact the First Minister was actually quite open about how she wasn't keen on the idea.

Even if I don't agree with their decision not to get vaccinated, those people now find themselves in a situation where, even if they wanted to now get vaccinated in order to comply with this new law, it will take them 8 weeks to get fully vaccinated and the law comes into effect in 3 weeks.

Over the next 8 weeks, Hibs have 4 home matches so I think if we're going to use this as a real incentive for people to now go and get vaccinated, rather just using it as a punishment for not going to get vaccinated up until now then if there's not going to be a blanket refund in place for everyone affected then I do think that at least for those people who decide that they will now get vaccinated there should be the offer of a refund for the cost of the next 4 games that they'll miss and we'll see them at the Dundee game on 20th November.

[BILLYHIBS]

What !!!!
Your point is caller ?

[JammyDoidger]

It will be an interesting one if someone decided to challenge any refusal to offer a refund.

I'd imagine Hibs' lawyers will be going through the Ts and Cs very carefully to check if there's any potential loopholes.

The only thing I'd say in response to people having the option to get vaccinated to allow them entry is that this law is coming into force in 3 weeks' time, if you're currently unvaccinated and this news has made you change your mind, it will take 8 weeks for you to be fully vaccinated.

I do understand the counter argument to that though which is that everyone over 18 has had the opportunity to get fully vaccinated and it is their fault for leaving it this long but if this is supposed to be the incentive to get people vaccinated then maybe we should be rewarding people who decide to get their first dose over the next couple of weeks?

This, exactly.

[Eyrie]

Yes I have a fear that by me saying what I did that I am coming across as siding with people who have chosen not to get vaccinated. I am not and I agree with vaccination being required in order to enter certain settings, if anything I think it should be extended to places like pubs and restaurants as well.

All I was saying was that when people bought their season tickets 4 or 5 months ago there was no such rule which stated vaccination would be a requirement for entry into the stadium. In fact the First Minister was actually quite open about how she wasn't keen on the idea.

Even if I don't agree with their decision not to get vaccinated, those people now find themselves in a situation where, even if they wanted to now get vaccinated in order to comply with this new law, it will take them 8 weeks to get fully vaccinated and the law comes into effect in 3 weeks.

Over the next 8 weeks, Hibs have 4 home matches so I think if we're going to use this as a real incentive for people to now go and get vaccinated, rather just using it as a punishment for not going to get vaccinated up until now then if there's not going to be a blanket refund in place for everyone affected then I do think that at least for those people who decide that they will now get vaccinated there should be the offer of a refund for the cost of the next 4 games that they'll miss and we'll see them at the Dundee game on 20th November.

It's an interesting suggestion, but why should someone get a refund for only now doing what they could have done weeks ago? Isn't that unfair on everyone who has already had both vaccinations?

[green day]

It's an interesting suggestion, but why should someone get a refund for only now doing what they could have done weeks ago? Isn't that unfair on everyone who has already had both vaccinations?

Of course it is. And if Hibs support is reflective of wider society (and why wouldn't it be?) then the vast majority of our ST holders are already double vaxxed, or are in the path toward it and have no issue at all with this.

ETA - 85% of over 18s have had 2 doses. 85%.......

There are Muppets everywhere, including in our support.

But they are a small number and won't be pandered to by Hibs or anyone else.

[Sir David Gray]

It's an interesting suggestion, but why should someone get a refund for only now doing what they could have done weeks ago? Isn't that unfair on everyone who has already had both vaccinations?

I think it's a decent suggestion if this new law is going to be used in a way that I think it's supposed to be intended, which is being an effective means of incentivising people to go and get vaccinated.

It's no different to other suggestions I've seen about offering people free pizzas etc in exchange for getting vaccinated.

[Eyrie]

I think it's a decent suggestion if this new law is going to be used in a way that I think it's supposed to be intended, which is being an effective means of incentivising people to go and get vaccinated.

It's no different to other suggestions I've seen about offering people free pizzas etc in exchange for getting vaccinated.

Surely the incentive in this case is being able to attend matches once vaccinated?

[Glory Lurker]

Hibs won't be refusing entry through choice. Can't see why they should have to refund anyone.

[Block]

Surely the incentive in this case is being able to attend matches once vaccinated?

Which in fairness is all well and good when we have a good team to watch which we do now presently. We want to go and watch Hibernian as we are entertaining and top of the league currently. Imagine we were pretty mediocre? Vaccine passports might well be the final nail in the coffin if we were tom tit. These passports are a bit of a nonsense imo.

[Sir David Gray]

We were told last season that we were getting all the games live on Hibs TV until we were allowed back into ER. I think it was a similar message when the STs went on sale for this season. Given that's the case then I'd imagine any T&Cs would cover that scenario. The vaccine passport situation effectively puts the unvaccinated back into that situation where they'll have to watch on Hibs TV until they have a passport (if they decide to get the vaccine). Potentially the T&Cs might have be worded in such a way that they cover this. I'd be very surprised if Hibs are on the hook for refunds when it is the government who have introduced the vaccine passport.

I've just read the season ticket Ts and Cs and point 5 says;

This season ticket is valid for virtual access to view such of the Hibernian FC first team SPFL League closed-door home matches as are streamed online either as part of the SPFL’s deal with Sky Sports or via Hibs TV at https://hibstv.hibernianfc.co.uk/ (for such time as those are available) and, once the Club is able to open and operate Easter Road Stadium in full, entry to Easter Road Stadium for such of the Hibernian FC first team SPFL League home matches as are played at Easter Road Stadium in
the 2020/2021 season. For the avoidance of doubt, your season ticket does not include any SPFL Play-Off Matches, European matches, friendlies or domestic cup matches at Easter Road Stadium.

I don't see anything there which says your season ticket is intended to be used for watching games on Hibs TV except for when it's behind closed doors.

PS - I realise it says season 20/21 but it is definitely the Ts and Cs for season 21/22.

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/2021-22-Terms-and-Conditions-Home-STs.pdf

[LaMotta]

For what it's worth, the requirement for Covid passports in France is meant to run until the middle of November. Whether that will be extended remains to be seen.

I think I heard on the radio that the Covid Passport had done it's job in France ie - led to millions of unvaccinated people getting both jabs. Obviously it would be impossible to get everyone to get the jab but there is a clear rationale for doing it if it is going to increase vax numbers.

Do you know if this is right or did I mishear?

[Block]

Hibs won't be refusing entry through choice. Can't see why they should have to refund anyone.

I posted a good few days ago that I hoped no Hibs fan would attempt for a refund as its not Hibs fault that they might have to refuse entry to unvaccinated patrons. However, if they were to persist and go down the legal route it could be that Hibs themselves might want to challenge the Scottish Government on loss of earnings due to the change in law. Changes in law can always create problematic secondary outcomes. It might never come to that crossing of bridges though. Hopefully not.

[Sir David Gray]

Surely the incentive in this case is being able to attend matches once vaccinated?

The point I'm making is even if you have been motivated to now go and get vaccinated as a result of this new law (which I do think is the point of it all) you won't be eligible to attend any of the next 4 home league games.

[green day]

The point I'm making is even if you have been motivated to now go and get vaccinated as a result of this new law (which I do think is the point of it all) you won't be eligible to attend any of the next 4 home league games.

If you drop in tomorrow, then 8 weeks after for 2nd, you only miss Celtic and Dundee Utd.

Storm in a teacup.

[007]

Yes I have a fear that by me saying what I did that I am coming across as siding with people who have chosen not to get vaccinated. I am not and I agree with vaccination being required in order to enter certain settings, if anything I think it should be extended to places like pubs and restaurants as well.

All I was saying was that when people bought their season tickets 4 or 5 months ago there was no such rule which stated vaccination would be a requirement for entry into the stadium. In fact the First Minister was actually quite open about how she wasn't keen on the idea.

Even if I don't agree with their decision not to get vaccinated, those people now find themselves in a situation where, even if they wanted to now get vaccinated in order to comply with this new law, it will take them 8 weeks to get fully vaccinated and the law comes into effect in 3 weeks.

Over the next 8 weeks, Hibs have 4 home matches so I think if we're going to use this as a real incentive for people to now go and get vaccinated, rather just using it as a punishment for not going to get vaccinated up until now then if there's not going to be a blanket refund in place for everyone affected then I do think that at least for those people who decide that they will now get vaccinated there should be the offer of a refund for the cost of the next 4 games that they'll miss and we'll see them at the Dundee game on 20th November.

Hibs shouldn't need to refund anyone as this situation is not of their making. If anyone wants money back they should be asking the government for it. I've had a look at the ST T&Cs and I'd say Hibs are covered because they specifically say they can change the Terms to reflect changes in relevant laws and regulations and guidance.

"The Club may change these Terms from time to time (for example, to reflect changes in relevant laws and regulations and guidance), and any changes will be published on the website at http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/pages/termsofuse and will be binding on the holder."

[Rocky]

If you drop in tomorrow, then 8 weeks after for 2nd, you only miss Celtic and Dundee Utd.

Storm in a teacup.

Agree it's a storm in a teacup and a classic of the genre of fretting over a problem that hasn't even happened yet, but just to point out that it's 10 weeks as you're not classed as fully vaxxed till 2 weeks after second jag.

[Eyrie]

The point I'm making is even if you have been motivated to now go and get vaccinated as a result of this new law (which I do think is the point of it all) you won't be eligible to attend any of the next 4 home league games.

But you'd still be able to attend games after that, which you wouldn't be able to do if you continued to choose not to be vaccinated.

[660]

Mandate vaccines asap

[wookie70]

I think I heard on the radio that the Covid Passport had done it's job in France ie - led to millions of unvaccinated people getting both jabs. Obviously it would be impossible to get everyone to get the jab but there is a clear rationale for doing it if it is going to increase vax numbers.

Do you know if this is right or did I mishear?
France has 68.70% of the population with a second dose as of yesterday so coercion isn't exactly a winning formula there(no idea if that is down to availabity or logistics though) The French tend to stick up for themselves more than us and care about Liberty more perhaps. We are a nation of folks that listen to our establishment. I'd expect more compliance here and asking may be better than telling to get it in arms. We will find out as this will be ongoing for a long time and we will all likely have to have boosters

[wookie70]

Agree it's a storm in a teacup and a classic of the genre of fretting over a problem that hasn't even happened yet, but just to point out that it's 10 weeks as you're not classed as fully vaxxed till 2 weeks after second jag. and assuming you only go to home games

[green day]

Agree it's a storm in a teacup and a classic of the genre of fretting over a problem that hasn't even happened yet, but just to point out that it's 10 weeks as you're not classed as fully vaxxed till 2 weeks after second jag.

You only need to show double vaccination, it's not about efficacy.....

[Sir David Gray]

Hibs shouldn't need to refund anyone as this situation is not of their making. If anyone wants money back they should be asking the government for it. I've had a look at the ST T&Cs and I'd say Hibs are covered because they specifically say they can change the Terms to reflect changes in relevant laws and regulations and guidance.

"The Club may change these Terms from time to time (for example, to reflect changes in relevant laws and regulations and guidance), and any changes will be published on the website at http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/pages/termsofuse and will be binding on the holder."

I'm sure their lawyers will be all over it to ensure no refunds are given.

[Ronniekirk]

Mandate vaccines asap

Goverment s have already said they dont want to adopt that policy as it alienated certain factions in society and would make them less likely to comply


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[green day]

and assuming you only go to home games

The point being answered was referring to home games.

[Rocky]

You only need to show double vaccination, it's not about efficacy.....

From today's published proposal:

"The scheme will require a person seeking entry to certain venues and settings to show that they have been fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated means vaccinated with a MHRA recognised vaccine in line with the MHRA recommended number of doses for the vaccine used and two weeks has passed for the vaccine to take effect"

[Eyrie]

Mandate vaccines asap

That would be a step too far for me, but I don't see the problem with requiring vaccinations or negative tests for attending a non-essential event with a large number of people.

The example of not being allowed to drive without a driving licence has been used in this thread and it's a good comparison. Anyone can live their life without a driving licence, but if you want to be behind the wheel then a driving licence is mandated.

[greenginger]

Sturgeon said vaccine passports would only be introduced once there’s been a grown-up , mature debate on the issue and once it been shown to have public support.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19213068.nicola-sturgeon-open-minded-vaccine-passports-ethical-concerns/

Has all this happened ? I’ve been away for a while. :confused:

[007]

I've just read the season ticket Ts and Cs and point 5 says;

This season ticket is valid for virtual access to view such of the Hibernian FC first team SPFL League closed-door home matches as are streamed online either as part of the SPFL’s deal with Sky Sports or via Hibs TV at https://hibstv.hibernianfc.co.uk/ (for such time as those are available) and, once the Club is able to open and operate Easter Road Stadium in full, entry to Easter Road Stadium for such of the Hibernian FC first team SPFL League home matches as are played at Easter Road Stadium in
the 2020/2021 season. For the avoidance of doubt, your season ticket does not include any SPFL Play-Off Matches, European matches, friendlies or domestic cup matches at Easter Road Stadium.

I don't see anything there which says your season ticket is intended to be used for watching games on Hibs TV except for when it's behind closed doors.

PS - I realise it says season 20/21 but it is definitely the Ts and Cs for season 21/22.

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/2021-22-Terms-and-Conditions-Home-STs.pdf

Have been looking at the T&Cs too and replied to one of your other posts before seeing your above reply. You're right it doesn't specify anything around Hibs TV as I thought it might but I think the bit in my other post might cover it.

I noticed the error with the years too.


I'm sure their lawyers will be all over it to ensure no refunds are given.

Yes, they probably will be.

[660]

Sturgeon said vaccine passports would only be introduced once there’s been a grown-up , mature debate on the issue and once it been shown to have public support.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19213068.nicola-sturgeon-open-minded-vaccine-passports-ethical-concerns/

Has all this happened ? I’ve been away for a while. :confused:

All the grown ups agreed to get vaccinated. What’s the issue?

[El Gubbz]

It seems to be forgotten in the argument that there are some people who despite wanting the vaccine at the earliest opportunity still aren’t double vaccinated.

Drop in vaccines didn’t really start until July and even then many under 30s were still waiting for their letter which didn’t come until later in the month.

I understand that the October date is based on 8 weeks after the end of July, the earliest that the gov had offered the first dose to everyone, but unfortunately if you caught covid when you were due your 2nd vaccine (which I did :-) ) you need to wait a further 4 weeks until you can get your second dose so for me that’s the end of September at the very earliest and from what I understand you may have to wait 2 weeks from the vaccination before your 2nd vaccine is valid?

It might sound like a unique position but it’s mainly folk in my age range that didn’t get offered the vaccine until July and are catching covid while we have record positive cases but despite bursting with anti bodies having suffered the virus we may be locked out of the football etc through no real fault of our own

[Block]

That would be a step too far for me, but I don't see the problem with requiring vaccinations or negative tests for attending a non-essential event with a large number of people.

The example of not being allowed to drive without a driving licence has been used in this thread and it's a good comparison. Anyone can live their life without a driving licence, but if you want to be behind the wheel then a driving licence is mandated.

Its a terrible comparison.

We fans are paying to watch professional footballers compete in an outdoor stadium. We are not paying for a license to play at ER.

Vaccinated can pass on covid to others just as unvaccinated can. Let's have a bit truth about the matter please instead of outlandish comparisons.

Imo

[wookie70]

Because they're the only people who will be legally unable to attend.

It is about proof of vaccination not being vaccinated. Being vaccinated doesn't gain you entry just like being filled with Covid wouldn't stop you attending assuming you had a passport. I am double jagged and do not agree with passports. I may choose not to carry one and will not be allowed entry. I will legally be unable to attend too surely.

[007]

Sturgeon said vaccine passports would only be introduced once there’s been a grown-up , mature debate on the issue and once it been shown to have public support.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19213068.nicola-sturgeon-open-minded-vaccine-passports-ethical-concerns/

Has all this happened ? I’ve been away for a while. :confused:

She decided from the 1st 20 pages of this thread that there was enough public support to crack on. I'm still trying to work out what name she posts under.

[Block]

She decided from the 1st 20 pages of this thread that there was enough public support to crack on. I'm still trying to work out what name she posts under.

@007

:greengrin

[green day]

From today's published proposal:

"The scheme will require a person seeking entry to certain venues and settings to show that they have been fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated means vaccinated with a MHRA recognised vaccine in line with the MHRA recommended number of doses for the vaccine used and two weeks has passed for the vaccine to take effect"
Thanks, I hadn't read that.

Still only the 2 home matches though😉

[Sir David Gray]

It is about proof of vaccination not being vaccinated. Being vaccinated doesn't gain you entry just like being filled with Covid wouldn't stop you attending assuming you had a passport. I am double jagged and do not agree with passports. I may choose not to carry one and will not be allowed entry. I will legally be unable to attend too surely.

Yes correct if you're fully vaccinated but choose not to bring any evidence of your full vaccination to a venue where you know it will be a requirement then you'll be denied entry.

In much the same way as if you're a young looking 18+ year old who tries to get served alcohol in Tesco but chooses not to carry any ID you run the risk of not being served the alcohol, despite being eligible to purchase it.

[wookie70]

It seems to be forgotten in the argument that there are some people who despite wanting the vaccine at the earliest opportunity still aren’t double vaccinated.

Drop in vaccines didn’t really start until July and even then many under 30s were still waiting for their letter which didn’t come until later in the month.

I understand that the October date is based on 8 weeks after the end of July, the earliest that the gov had offered the first dose to everyone, but unfortunately if you caught covid when you were due your 2nd vaccine (which I did :-) ) you need to wait a further 4 weeks until you can get your second dose so for me that’s the end of September at the very earliest and from what I understand you may have to wait 2 weeks from the vaccination before your 2nd vaccine is valid?

It might sound like a unique position but it’s mainly folk in my age range that didn’t get offered the vaccine until July and are catching covid while we have record positive cases but despite bursting with anti bodies having suffered the virus we may be locked out of the football etc through no real fault of our own

My son is actually in the situation you mention and will now be unlikely to be able to go to the Israel match. He probably has more antibodies than me and works in a McDonalds which is deemed perfectly safe. He would now be double vaxxed if he hadn't caught it.

What about those that turn 18 in October. They could be allowed to go to a game on Saturday and be denied entry on Wednesday when only their age is the determining factor. Could that be deemed age discrimination. It certainly feels like it is.

[Slim Shady]

Potentially an unvaccinated person who doesn’t have Covid 19 as per PCR test, will be refused entry but a double jabber with certification, who has Covid 19 but showing no symptoms so therefore doesn’t know they have it will be allowed entry and could spread the virus?

[H18 SFR]

Today’s development has puzzled me within somewhat. I’m doubled vaccinated but I feel compelled to politely refuse a booster should that transpire.

I just feel today is a step beyond what is acceptable. You can’t win the argument with those resisting the vaccine so you decide to punish them essentially. Hearts and minds and all that.

Like I said, I’m a bit puzzled within, a booster isn’t for me, I just don’t feel what’s going on is correct.

[Sir David Gray]

Potentially an unvaccinated person who doesn’t have Covid 19 as per PCR test, will be refused entry but a double jabber with certification, who has Covid 19 but showing no symptoms so therefore doesn’t know they have it will be allowed entry and could spread the virus?

Yes that is certainly possible.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Today’s development has puzzled me within somewhat. I’m doubled vaccinated but I feel compelled to politely refuse a booster should that transpire.

I just feel today is a step beyond what is acceptable. You can’t win the argument with those resisting the vaccine so you decide to punish them essentially. Hearts and minds and all that.

Like I said, I’m a bit puzzled within, a booster isn’t for me, I just don’t feel what’s going on is correct.

I was always expecting boosters tbh. And I’m happy to have one if it means we continue to love a close to normal life. But if we’re made to have restrictionswhile expected to take a booster, that’s a whole different story


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[007]

Today’s development has puzzled me within somewhat. I’m doubled vaccinated but I feel compelled to politely refuse a booster should that transpire.

I just feel today is a step beyond what is acceptable. You can’t win the argument with those resisting the vaccine so you decide to punish them essentially. Hearts and minds and all that.

Like I said, I’m a bit puzzled within, a booster isn’t for me, I just don’t feel what’s going on is correct.

Bit of a strange reason to not want a booster. Don't agree with a measure being implemented so choose to increase the risk to your own health and potentially increase the chances of continuing the spread. Bizarre logic.

[wookie70]

I was always expecting boosters tbh. And I’m happy to have one if it means we continue to love a close to normal life. But if we’re made to have restrictionswhile expected to take a booster, that’s a whole different story


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why, surely it is about public health. You are already restricted in terms of travel abroad etc. Restrictions have been massively successful in protecting citizens. Albeit it was a different variant restrictions pretty much stopped Covid deaths without a vaccine. A blend of both is most likely to be part of the future, potentially even if there is 100% vaccination and particularly if future variants are not as easy to tame by this vaccination set. Is this about your freedom or public health.

[Col2]

Scotland currently has the highest infection levels in the world. IN THE WORLD. The responsibility for this sits with the Scot Govt. They delayed opening up, and now it’s out of control.l and they don’t know why’s nobody knows why. England have had schools open for a week now and have a small increase.

Corporate businesses have been told by the Scot Govt to scrap any plans/pilots to get people back on the office but won’t make a public announcement about it (contradicting itself weeks after saying we were getting back to normal).

This crowd announcement along with several other actions are to try and get back some level of control. Except without more money from chancellor the Scot Govt won’t want to be criticized for restricting business where they can’t compensate them financially. It is a blatant attempt to reduce materially, numbers going to events by making it as difficult as possible.

We are three weeks away from this and there is next to no detail and not a single meeting has taken place between authorities and Govt.

We as a club will need to decide soon if we follow the lead of the group and push back (therefore no chance of being ready) or start to work up solutions now but risk of wasted money.

I think it’s a disgrace and the usual half arsed rollout with zero detail. But it’s not going to go away and we might just need to make the best of it for a couple of months. We all want to see our club and we want as many in as possible. I hope we are actively working out how we can do this for our first game.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Why, surely it is about public health. You are already restricted in terms of travel abroad etc. Restrictions have been massively successful in protecting citizens. Albeit it was a different variant restrictions pretty much stopped Covid deaths without a vaccine. A blend of both is most likely to be part of the future, potentially even if there is 100% vaccination and particularly if future variants are not as easy to tame by this vaccination set. Is this about your freedom or public health.

I’ll be honest, I’m unsure what you’re arguing there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

Yes that is certainly possible.

I would guess that is almost certain, if not ER but in venues with passports and they would get in with symptoms.

I would also extend it to say that someone who has one vaccination and has antibodies they have got from having Covid and who has a negative PCR test just before the game will be denied while a coughing spluttering Covid carrying Passport holder will be allowed in. If this had came in a few weeks ago my son would have been in that first category. He made the decision to be vaccinated and went as soon as he was offered an appointment. The only reason he isn't double vaxxed is his age. Something Sturgeon definitely said would be taken into consideration - "Sturgeon also explained the Government would have to ensure the system was fair for those who were unable to get the vaccine, due to their age"

Governments discriminating against the young and punishing them is all the done thing now though. However, they are not an age group that are generally motivated by telling them to do something. I imagine they can knock up a few paper certificates easy enough too.

[Block]

Scotland currently has the highest infection levels in the world. IN THE WORLD. The responsibility for this sits with the Scot Govt. They delayed opening up, and now it’s out of control.l and they don’t know why’s nobody knows why. England have had schools open for a week now and have a small increase.

Corporate businesses have been told by the Scot Govt to scrap any plans/pilots to get people back on the office but won’t make a public announcement about it (contradicting itself weeks after saying we were getting back to normal).

This crowd announcement along with several other actions are to try and get back some level of control. Except without more money from chancellor the Scot Govt won’t want to be criticized for restricting business where they can’t compensate them financially. It is a blatant attempt to reduce materially, numbers going to events by making it as difficult as possible.

We are three weeks away from this and there is next to no detail and not a single meeting has taken place between authorities and Govt.

We as a club will need to decide soon if we follow the lead of the group and push back (therefore no chance of being ready) or start to work up solutions now but risk of wasted money.

I think it’s a disgrace and the usual half arsed rollout with zero detail. But it’s not going to go away and we might just need to make the best of it for a couple of months. We all want to see our club and we want as many in as possible. I hope we are actively working out how we can do this for our first game.

Got to unfortunately agree.

It looks as if the Scottish Government has lost control of Covid and are looking for ill advised propagandist measures.

So called passports are not the answer to the bigger picture.

[LunasBoots]

Why, surely it is about public health. You are already restricted in terms of travel abroad etc. Restrictions have been massively successful in protecting citizens. Albeit it was a different variant restrictions pretty much stopped Covid deaths without a vaccine. A blend of both is most likely to be part of the future, potentially even if there is 100% vaccination and particularly if future variants are not as easy to tame by this vaccination set. Is this about your freedom or public health.

Yup, the government ain't telling you that though which is why people are confused, even with full vaccination of a whole population the virus will still be there and no doubt there will be a major new variant and so on that bypasses the vaccines anyway as is being said by scientists, all this beating the virus nonsense is just that.

[wookie70]

Yup, the government ain't telling you that though which is why people are confused, even with full vaccination of a whole population the virus will still be there and no doubt there will be a major new variant and so on that bypasses the vaccines anyway as is being said by scientists, all this beating the virus nonsense is just that.

In a large part of the UK population the virus is more likely to be there with those that are double vaxxed.

Just reading the latest NHS Vaccine surveillance (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1016465/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_36.pdf) on page 14 it states that between the ages of 40 and 79 more people per 100K have Covid that are double vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. My understanding is that is single biggest factor in passing on Covid is having it in the first place to pass on. For the double vaxxed group between 40 and 79 they are more likely to have it and I would like to know why if the vaccines are meant to be effective in stopping catching covid and transmitting why are some of our most vaccinated citizens more likely to have it when double vaxxed. I suppose its all the bairns and unvaccinated people's fault.
⁠
I actually think this is the "superman" factor with governments giving the impression that you can do anything when vaccinated. It should surely be a factor in passports though and taking the advantages of the vaccines and weighing that against a large population where more vaccinated people actually have covid what are the safest cohort. I have said earlier and was called out for saying double vaxxed people had more chance of catching covid from behaviour change. Well if you are between 40 and 79 then these stats must at least give some pause for thought on that.

[Block]

In a large part of the UK population the virus is more likely to be there with those that are double vaxxed.

Just reading the latest NHS Vaccine surveillance (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1016465/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_36.pdf) on page 14 it states that between the ages of 40 and 79 more people per 100K have Covid that are double vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. My understanding is that is single biggest factor in passing on Covid is having it in the first place to pass on. For the double vaxxed group between 40 and 79 they are more likely to have it and I would like to know why if the vaccines are meant to be effective in stopping catching covid and transmitting why are some of our most vaccinated citizens more likely to have it when double vaxxed. I suppose its all the bairns and unvaccinated people's fault.
⁠
I actually think this is the "superman" factor with governments giving the impression that you can do anything when vaccinated. It should surely be a factor in passports though and taking the advantages of the vaccines and weighing that against a large population where more vaccinated people actually have covid what are the safest cohort. I have said earlier and was called out for saying double vaxxed people had more chance of catching covid from behaviour change. Well if you are between 40 and 79 then these stats must at least give some pause for thought on that.

If reading and understanding you correctly, you are actually stating that the Snp Scottish Government are targeting the wrong cohort at the very least.

[wookie70]

I’ll be honest, I’m unsure what you’re arguing there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you going to not take a booster if there are further restrictions. That would be thinking about your freedom and placing it above Public Health as restrictions are absolutely proven to reduce transmission. That is one of the argument against those, like me, who feel passports are wrong.

I'm for the best way to stop the virus and in my view that is real restrictions and vaccinations. Having 50k gathering and using passports to get a few vaccinated doesn't seem to me to be a successful strategy. The SG strategy has been pretty disastrous throughout so that isn't a surprise.

[wookie70]

If reading and understanding you correctly, you are actually stating that the Snp Scottish Government are targeting the wrong cohort at the very least.

I'm not sure, you have to weigh the greater likelihood of a person aged 40-79 who is vaccinated having covid against their reduced chance of them passing it on.

Either way you are more likely to get it from an unvaccinated younger person so probably not. When you get it you want to be vaccinated, the reports further down make that very clear but again for youngsters we are talking about a few chances in a million and they put themselves at far greater risk drinking and taking drugs to excess. Not sure passports will convince that cohort to be vaccinated. Yes, you could appeal to them to help older people but given older people have shafted the young for the last few decades that may be a big ask. Better a campaign about how getting a vaccination could save your parents life if they can't be vaccinated, or similar, than a passport system in my view.

All of this must be viewed alongside far more positive ways such as better track and trace systems and proper restrictions in indoor close contact venues potentially having a far greater impact on teh virus and positive impact on public health.

[Block]

I'm not sure, you have to weigh the greater likelihood of a person aged 40-79 who is vaccinated having covid against their reduced chance of them passing it on.

Either way you are more likely to get it from an unvaccinated younger person so probably not. When you get it you want to be vaccinated, the reports further down make that very clear but again for youngsters we are talking about a few chances in a million and they put themselves at far greater risk drinking and taking drugs to excess. Not sure passports will convince that cohort to be vaccinated. Yes, you could appeal to them to help older people but given older people have shafted the young for the last few decades that may be a big ask. Better a campaign about how getting a vaccination could save your parents life if they can't be vaccinated, or similar, than a passport system in my view.

All of this must be viewed alongside far more positive ways such as better track and trace systems and proper restrictions in indoor close contact venues potentially having a far greater impact on teh virus and positive impact on public health.

Saving A Parents Life Passport aye?

That's even worse than the Snp whatever may be passport one.

You've lost the plot imo.

[wookie70]

Saving A Parents Life Passport aye?

That's even worse than the Snp whatever may be passport one.

You've lost the plot imo.
I never said that. I am saying encouragement and using those who the young may care about may be a better tactic. I would never advocate passports based on personal health decision in Scotland for Scottish citizens. I'll refrain from abusing you

[Stairway 2 7]

Walk in centres started the first week of July there is no excuse for anyone.

France gave there public a couple of weeks warning before they started using it . It worked unbelievably well, millions got vaccinated the next few days. Can you spot the announcement in the chart

25069

Three quarters of hospitalisations are in unvaccinated absolutely selfish twats. Doctors and nurses are shattered and have to deal with these pricks. Operations can't be done also, cancer screening too. People are dying because of their choice. Its my choice to get vaccinated doesn't cut it, all restrictions would stop being thought about if 3/4 weren't going to hospital.

8% of the adult population chose not to get vaccinated. They are in the younger groups, but still filling up our hospitals and message boards with bleatings. Crying that they can't go to football good, good get vaccinated and help our nhs and our society twats

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58494842

[J-C]

In a large part of the UK population the virus is more likely to be there with those that are double vaxxed.

Just reading the latest NHS Vaccine surveillance (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1016465/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_36.pdf) on page 14 it states that between the ages of 40 and 79 more people per 100K have Covid that are double vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. My understanding is that is single biggest factor in passing on Covid is having it in the first place to pass on. For the double vaxxed group between 40 and 79 they are more likely to have it and I would like to know why if the vaccines are meant to be effective in stopping catching covid and transmitting why are some of our most vaccinated citizens more likely to have it when double vaxxed. I suppose its all the bairns and unvaccinated people's fault.
⁠
I actually think this is the "superman" factor with governments giving the impression that you can do anything when vaccinated. It should surely be a factor in passports though and taking the advantages of the vaccines and weighing that against a large population where more vaccinated people actually have covid what are the safest cohort. I have said earlier and was called out for saying double vaxxed people had more chance of catching covid from behaviour change. Well if you are between 40 and 79 then these stats must at least give some pause for thought on that.

Absolute nonsense, double jabbed only means you re less likely to die from the virus and hence helps the NHS by not needing to go to hospital. Everyone vaccinated or not can still spread the virus, at the moment the majority of patients are below 50 with a vast majority not vaccinated, that in itself should tell you why getting the jab is important, also the new variants play a big part in this.

[calumhibee1]

Walk in centres started the first week of July there is no excuse for anyone.

France gave there public a couple of weeks warning before they started using it . It worked unbelievably well, millions got vaccinated the next few days. Can you spot the announcement in the chart

25069

Three quarters of hospitalisations are in unvaccinated absolutely selfish twats. Doctors and nurses are shattered and have to deal with these pricks. Operations can't be done also, cancer screening too. People are dying because of their choice. Its my choice to get vaccinated doesn't cut it, all restrictions would stop being thought about if 3/4 weren't going to hospital.

8% of the adult population chose not to get vaccinated. They are in the younger groups, but still filling up our hospitals and message boards with bleatings. Crying that they can't go to football good, good get vaccinated and help our nhs and our society twats

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58494842

:agree:

It’s time to stop pandering to the folk who don’t want it cause they’ve read that their pal with a foundation level qualification in silly science says it’s dangerous.

If they don’t want to get the vaccine then get them to **** away from everyone else so that people who have done their bit can start getting treatments for other illnesses that are going to end up killing them because they won’t get treated in time. Why will they not get treated in time? Because of the outrageously disproportionate number of unvaccinated people putting a strain on the NHS.

The vaccine passports don’t go nearly far enough imo and should be extended to bars and restaurants, flights etc as well.

[green day]

Walk in centres started the first week of July there is no excuse for anyone.

France gave there public a couple of weeks warning before they started using it . It worked unbelievably well, millions got vaccinated the next few days. Can you spot the announcement in the chart

25069

Three quarters of hospitalisations are in unvaccinated absolutely selfish twats. Doctors and nurses are shattered and have to deal with these pricks. Operations can't be done also, cancer screening too. People are dying because of their choice. Its my choice to get vaccinated doesn't cut it, all restrictions would stop being thought about if 3/4 weren't going to hospital.

8% of the adult population chose not to get vaccinated. They are in the younger groups, but still filling up our hospitals and message boards with bleatings. Crying that they can't go to football good, good get vaccinated and help our nhs and our society twats

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58494842

Good post, and you are right about France, the uptick in vaccinations was remarkable.

Regarding the hospitalisations, I am friends with a couple of doctors and they have been saying for weeks that - the old and people with pre-existing conditions excluded - basically the only people in ITU and with serious Covid are unvaccinated (you mention 75%, sounds about right).

As you point out, due to them taking up hospital beds, someones relative cant get hip surgery - it is unutterably selfish and the doctors I know would go somewhat further than our government has to date and have unprintable words for these idiots.

One thing is for sure, if we dont want more lockdowns, then proving vaccination or previous infections will be the way we get back to normality.

People complaining about this are pissing in the wind and deserve no sympathy, no additional measures or time and certainly no ****ing refunds from Hibs.

[Brightside]

I'm not sure, you have to weigh the greater likelihood of a person aged 40-79 who is vaccinated having covid against their reduced chance of them passing it on.

Either way you are more likely to get it from an unvaccinated younger person so probably not. When you get it you want to be vaccinated, the reports further down make that very clear but again for youngsters we are talking about a few chances in a million and they put themselves at far greater risk drinking and taking drugs to excess. Not sure passports will convince that cohort to be vaccinated. Yes, you could appeal to them to help older people but given older people have shafted the young for the last few decades that may be a big ask. Better a campaign about how getting a vaccination could save your parents life if they can't be vaccinated, or similar, than a passport system in my view.

All of this must be viewed alongside far more positive ways such as better track and trace systems and proper restrictions in indoor close contact venues potentially having a far greater impact on teh virus and positive impact on public health.

Young people are spreading it more than most. I know very few people my age that have had it (a hand full). But a majority of my kids friends have all had it since clubs etc reopened.

[El Gubbz]

My son is actually in the situation you mention and will now be unlikely to be able to go to the Israel match. He probably has more antibodies than me and works in a McDonalds which is deemed perfectly safe. He would now be double vaxxed if he hadn't caught it.

What about those that turn 18 in October. They could be allowed to go to a game on Saturday and be denied entry on Wednesday when only their age is the determining factor. Could that be deemed age discrimination. It certainly feels like it is.

Yeah that’s not fair at all. I’d have thought the vaccination passport would have possibly recorded the date we contracted covid and based on the assumed anti body levels we would have a valid vaccine passport until X date as we’re as safe as anyone else and clearly have the intention to be vaccinated.

Kinda get sick of the argument being made by older posters on their high horse assuming everyone not double vaccinated is an anti vaxer / ignorant / lazy. Some of us had the opportunity to skip the queue to claim we were carers for family members but decided that it wasn’t fair to skip the queue if letters were being sent out in order of priority.

If a vaccine passport is going to come in with such little time to implement they need to have a level of leniency towards those who are single vaccinated and awaiting their 2nd. If someone gets a vaccine today based on the guidance they won’t be allowed into a game until November 19th missing 6 weeks of normality.

My (bias I admit) preference would be to have a vaccine passport coming in on October 1st to prove you’ve had your first dose, with a full vaccine certificate going live on November 19th, if still required, that requires you to be double jagged - and some flexibility for those who turn 18 in the interim

[El Gubbz]

Walk in centres started the first week of July there is no excuse for anyone.

France gave there public a couple of weeks warning before they started using it . It worked unbelievably well, millions got vaccinated the next few days. Can you spot the announcement in the chart

25069

Three quarters of hospitalisations are in unvaccinated absolutely selfish twats. Doctors and nurses are shattered and have to deal with these pricks. Operations can't be done also, cancer screening too. People are dying because of their choice. Its my choice to get vaccinated doesn't cut it, all restrictions would stop being thought about if 3/4 weren't going to hospital.

8% of the adult population chose not to get vaccinated. They are in the younger groups, but still filling up our hospitals and message boards with bleatings. Crying that they can't go to football good, good get vaccinated and help our nhs and our society twats

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58494842

They did but if you got vaccinated early July, caught it when due your 2nd in early September then have to wait until early October you will be locked out for the first couple games as takes 2 weeks for your second Jag to be valid on the certificate.

It’s bad luck but it’s a perfectly good “excuse” to be annoyed at this being rushed through

[Stokesy's on fire]

Sturgeon = Scotland's Thatcher

[HFCdeb]

What does this mean in terms of refunds on ST? Is it a case of just contacting the Club?

[Brightside]

Sturgeon = Scotland's Thatcher

Behave man.

[Glory Lurker]

They did but if you got vaccinated early July, caught it when due your 2nd in early September then have to wait until early October you will be locked out for the first couple games as takes 2 weeks for your second Jag to be valid on the certificate.

It’s bad luck but it’s a perfectly good “excuse” to be annoyed at this being rushed through

I've sympathy for that situation, but the rush is needed because we're moving toward winter. There's not an opportunity for nuance. I'm sure the SG would rather not have to do this. It's being brought in as a last resort and that doesn't allow a longer run in.

[hibbysam]

Young people are spreading it more than most. I know very few people my age that have had it (a hand full). But a majority of my kids friends have all had it since clubs etc reopened.

Government figures every day prove this fact. Only thing they don’t tell you is age ranges of positive cases, or I can’t see them anyway. Majority would be under 18 school kids IMO going by the numbers off school with Covid related reasons.

[easty]

Sturgeon = Scotland's Thatcher

Stokesy’s on fire = Hibs.net’s Janey Godley

[CapitalGreen]

What about those that turn 18 in October. They could be allowed to go to a game on Saturday and be denied entry on Wednesday when only their age is the determining factor. Could that be deemed age discrimination. It certainly feels like it is.

By October 1st it will be over 8 weeks since 16-18 year olds could start getting vaccinated. Any 17 year old who wanted to be fully vaccinated before their 18th birthday in October could have done so.

[Scooter]

It's the biggest farce ever.

The vaccine is to limit serious health risk and in turn reduce the stress on the NHS? Correct?

So I'm assuming the Flu vaccine will also be apart of these vaccine passports? Everyone that's entitled to a flu jag must get one or same applies?

Cause if this isnt the case then why?

[El Gubbz]

I've sympathy for that situation, but the rush is needed because we're moving toward winter. There's not an opportunity for nuance. I'm sure the SG would rather not have to do this. It's being brought in as a last resort and that doesn't allow a longer run in.

I get their reasons behind it but must be a small window were single jags are fine, would probably boost non vaccinated folk getting vaccinated more as they’re able to maintain their freedom instead of turning them into even bigger anti vaxers, then making 2 jags necessary later on.

Are single jagged folk all that more likely to catch and spread more than double jagged? It’s a small % of a difference

[easty]

It's the biggest farce ever.

The vaccine is to limit serious health risk and in turn reduce the stress on the NHS? Correct?

So I'm assuming the Flu vaccine will also be apart of these vaccine passports? Everyone that's entitled to a flu jag must get one or same applies?

Cause if this isnt the case then why?

Is it because the flu and covid are different diseases, with different transmission rates, and have different levels of illness?

Is that too obvious an answer?

[green day]

It's the biggest farce ever.

The vaccine is to limit serious health risk and in turn reduce the stress on the NHS? Correct?

So I'm assuming the Flu vaccine will also be apart of these vaccine passports? Everyone that's entitled to a flu jag must get one or same applies?

Cause if this isnt the case then why?

Probably because the Flu doesnt cause as many hospitalisations in the younger people who are currently in ITUs with Covid.

Hospitals could - just - deal with Flu epidemics each winter.

Covid has changed the landscape on beds / staffing.

There is limited / no headroom for beds in hospitals, so encouragement / boot up the bahookie is required to get the population vaccinated before winter.

None of this is tricky if you think about it, tbf.......

[Glory Lurker]

I get their reasons behind it but must be a small window were single jags are fine, would probably boost non vaccinated folk getting vaccinated more as they’re able to maintain their freedom instead of turning them into even bigger anti vaxers, then making 2 jags necessary later on.

Are single jagged folk all that more likely to catch and spread more than double jagged? It’s a small % of a difference

I don't know how one jag compares. How long in your scenario would the temporary leniency have to be (that's a genuine question)?

[green day]

I get their reasons behind it but must be a small window were single jags are fine, would probably boost non vaccinated folk getting vaccinated more as they’re able to maintain their freedom instead of turning them into even bigger anti vaxers, then making 2 jags necessary later on.

Are single jagged folk all that more likely to catch and spread more than double jagged? It’s a small % of a difference

The govt can only look at things on a population scale, hence the big stick approach.

In France, peoples "principles" soon disappeared when told they couldnt sit outside a cafe having a fag and a coffee without the Pass Sanitaire.

[The dalmeny]

By October 1st it will be over 8 weeks since 16-18 year olds could start getting vaccinated. Any 17 year old who wanted to be fully vaccinated before their 18th birthday in October could have done so.

My 17 yo was told at the vaccination centre no decision had been made about when they should get their second vaccine.

[bod]

It's the biggest farce ever.

The vaccine is to limit serious health risk and in turn reduce the stress on the NHS? Correct?

So I'm assuming the Flu vaccine will also be apart of these vaccine passports? Everyone that's entitled to a flu jag must get one or same applies?

Cause if this isnt the case then why?

Can you not purchase the flu vaccine already ?
My employment give me a voucher for it to get it free from Lloyds chemist within certain months

[Stairway 2 7]

My 17 yo was told at the vaccination centre no decision had been made about when they should get their second vaccine.

Under 18s don't apply and can get a second a couple of months before they are 18 so will be fine

[AugustaHibs]

What I don’t understand is the emphasis on the hospitals.

People pay tax and NI so that these things are able to run at all times.

NHS is there to serve the people, not the other way around?

[Stairway 2 7]

They did but if you got vaccinated early July, caught it when due your 2nd in early September then have to wait until early October you will be locked out for the first couple games as takes 2 weeks for your second Jag to be valid on the certificate.

It’s bad luck but it’s a perfectly good “excuse” to be annoyed at this being rushed through
That will apply only to a few thousand unfortunates, 400,000 haven't bothered their arse. There has to be a cut of somewhere. We could have been like France and other European countries that gave a weeks notice and said unlucky. The vocal minority will just have to get on with it

[Stairway 2 7]

What I don’t understand is the emphasis on the hospitals.

People pay tax and NI so that these things are able to run at all times.

NHS is there to serve the people, not the other way around?

Then they would be able to do there job if 75% of the cases coming in with covid weren't half wits. Due to infection control, a covid space takes up double the floor space of a normal inpatient

[AugustaHibs]

Then they would be able to do there job if 75% of the cases coming in with covid weren't half wits. Due to infection control, a covid space takes up double the floor space of a normal inpatient

I totally get that and believe people who are ‘anti vax’ are total idiots. But there needs to be more emphasis on increasing capacity of our health service as we all know this disease isn’t going anywhere

[J-C]

Yeah that’s not fair at all. I’d have thought the vaccination passport would have possibly recorded the date we contracted covid and based on the assumed anti body levels we would have a valid vaccine passport until X date as we’re as safe as anyone else and clearly have the intention to be vaccinated.

Kinda get sick of the argument being made by older posters on their high horse assuming everyone not double vaccinated is an anti vaxer / ignorant / lazy. Some of us had the opportunity to skip the queue to claim we were carers for family members but decided that it wasn’t fair to skip the queue if letters were being sent out in order of priority.

If a vaccine passport is going to come in with such little time to implement they need to have a level of leniency towards those who are single vaccinated and awaiting their 2nd. If someone gets a vaccine today based on the guidance they won’t be allowed into a game until November 19th missing 6 weeks of normality.

My (bias I admit) preference would be to have a vaccine passport coming in on October 1st to prove you’ve had your first dose, with a full vaccine certificate going live on November 19th, if still required, that requires you to be double jagged - and some flexibility for those who turn 18 in the interim

There's absolutely no reason younger folk like you cannot get both jabs as the NHS have opened up for all 16+ to get ot asap. All over 60's are now double doses with a large majority of 45+ the same, we're all waiting for the younger folk to get it done so we can get back to normal. Far too many people listening to numpties on either FB or Twitter who think they have a virology degree.

[CapitalGreen]

I totally get that and believe people who are ‘anti vax’ are total idiots. But there needs to be more emphasis on increasing capacity of our health service as we all know this disease isn’t going anywhere

One way to improve available capacity is by decreasing use - more people getting vaccinated does that. The other way, building more wards/hospitals and training more medical professionals takes considerably longer and is more expensive.

[J-C]

What I don’t understand is the emphasis on the hospitals.

People pay tax and NI so that these things are able to run at all times.

NHS is there to serve the people, not the other way around?

It's taking away resources from other departments due to staff having to concentrate on Covid wards. Hip operations, cancer treatment and many more being cancelled due to Covid patients taking up time and space.

[calumhibee1]

I totally get that and believe people who are ‘anti vax’ are total idiots. But there needs to be more emphasis on increasing capacity of our health service as we all know this disease isn’t going anywhere

It definitely does need increased but that’s not something that can be done short term. Until that can be done, vaccine passports are the best way to do it, whether that’s because people won’t be able to go to mass events and catch it/infect everybody or because more folk will decide they now want the vaccine.

[El Gubbz]

I don't know how one jag compares. How long in your scenario would the temporary leniency have to be (that's a genuine question)?

To be honest for me it’s literally 3 days so only missing the Rangers game but I was massively keen to get the vaccine as early as possible - I know others who waited until they got their letter a couple weeks later or just didn’t get round to it until the end of the month / august and at a time when government position was very anti vaccine passport. If I was one of them I’d be massively aggrieved - got a jambo mate who’s missing games until November… get it up him :-)

[JimBHibees]

Sturgeon = Scotland's Thatcher

Political history not your strong point

[blackpoolhibs]

It's the biggest farce ever.

The vaccine is to limit serious health risk and in turn reduce the stress on the NHS? Correct?

So I'm assuming the Flu vaccine will also be apart of these vaccine passports? Everyone that's entitled to a flu jag must get one or same applies?

Cause if this isnt the case then why?

I mean really, you dont know the difference between covid and flu?

Just to stop worrying, there is a vaccine coming out, maybe is out now that covers both.

[JimBHibees]

I've sympathy for that situation, but the rush is needed because we're moving toward winter. There's not an opportunity for nuance. I'm sure the SG would rather not have to do this. It's being brought in as a last resort and that doesn't allow a longer run in.

Agree totally Get the vaccine to take pressure off the already exhausted NHS.

[El Gubbz]

There's absolutely no reason younger folk like you cannot get both jabs as the NHS have opened up for all 16+ to get ot asap. All over 60's are now double doses with a large majority of 45+ the same, we're all waiting for the younger folk to get it done so we can get back to normal. Far too many people listening to numpties on either FB or Twitter who think they have a virology degree.

If you’d read the posts that my reply was in response to you would see that I got my first jag at the earliest possible date for me and because I got covid when I was due my second I’ve to wait another 4 weeks for the vaccine (12 weeks from first jag) and a further 2 weeks until the jag is valid on the vaccination certificate. It’s not as black and white as you’re making out. Agree plenty are lazy/ignorant but plenty young folk have waited until it was their turn to protect those at higher risk - that was always my stance when my mum was hassling me to get a vaccine earlier than I was able to without claiming to be a carer which I was perfectly entitled to do

[calumhibee1]

If you’d read the posts that my reply was in response to you would see that I got my first jag at the earliest possible date for me and because I got covid when I was due my second I’ve to wait another 4 weeks for the vaccine (12 weeks from first jag) and a further 2 weeks until the jag is valid on the vaccination certificate. It’s not as black and white as you’re making out. Agree plenty are lazy/ignorant but plenty young folk have waited until it was their turn to protect those at higher risk - that was always my stance when my mum was hassling me to get a vaccine earlier than I was able to without claiming to be a carer which I was perfectly entitled to do

There is going to be the add anomaly but there has to be a cut off point somewhere. The cut off point is the most effective one and they can’t push this back incase people caught Covid and had to wait longer for their second jag etc.

You have my sympathy but there’s not really anything that the SG can do.

[Stairway 2 7]

I totally get that and believe people who are ‘anti vax’ are total idiots. But there needs to be more emphasis on increasing capacity of our health service as we all know this disease isn’t going anywhere

Agreed but I think one problem is staff and training but hopefully they started investing in that last spring....

[O'Rourke3]

NHS is there to serve the people, not the other way around?

I hope I've misunderstood this, but this is the most ignorant thing I think I've ever read this message board. We pay for the NHS to sort this stuff out so that folks can get on with their lives?
The same NHS that deals head on with every case of Covid while trying to keep essential services running.
The NHS who deal with hundreds of thousands of cases of patients who don't look after themselves and end up needing treatment despite the information and the warnings about washing your hands, sanitising, distancing, dont meet and greet etc on top of years of warnings around eating, drinking, smoking, exercising and doing your bit not to put pressure on. Serving those people?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

I totally get that and believe people who are ‘anti vax’ are total idiots. But there needs to be more emphasis on increasing capacity of our health service as we all know this disease isn’t going anywhere

We did that, temporarily with the louisa Jordan. Unfortunately COP26 needs the venue.

[wookie70]

Absolute nonsense, double jabbed only means you re less likely to die from the virus and hence helps the NHS by not needing to go to hospital. Everyone vaccinated or not can still spread the virus, at the moment the majority of patients are below 50 with a vast majority not vaccinated, that in itself should tell you why getting the jab is important, also the new variants play a big part in this.

Lots of this thread is about transmission and the fact double vaxxed are less likely to pass the virus on to others and also to catch it themselves. The Government's stated reasons in yesterday's paper, which came out hours before the vote, has as its first point of reasoning "Research evidence indicates that being vaccinated reduces the risk that a person will become infected with the virus, and likely further reduces their risk of transmitting coronavirus. Ensuring only those who are vaccinated attend higher risk venues and events therefore directly reduces the risk of transmission."

I put up a post saying that you are more likely to have Covid if you are double vaxxed and in the age group 40-79, an age group that is overwhelmingly double vaxxed, and question why this would be if the vaccine made it less likely for you to catch covid. The paper I link to is from the NHS so I would say is as good a source as you get.

I don't dispute that being vaccinated means it is less likely you will end up in hospital or die. However, it is impossible to die from Covid if you don't catch it so transmission is the biggest fundamental to me. The government appears to be saying it is ok if you catch it while holding a passport given they are allowing these events to take place. 18-29 year old have a 4 in a million chance of dying according to that paper if unvaccinated and a 1 in a million chance if double vaxxed. Yes it is 4 times more likely to die if double vaxxed but it is far more likely you will die of a multitude of other things young people do. Is coercion a good long term plan for the young and indeed other age groups.

At the moment there are around half the amount of patients in ICU and in hospital with covid with lesser symptoms than in January when the Scottish population was largely unvaccinated. According to Public Health Scotland "The highestnumber of new admissions are now in those aged 50-59 years, 70-79 years and 80+." which are obviously in the most highly vaccinated group. I can't see figures to say who and who is not vaccinated in hospital in Scotland. According to Public Health Scotland the vast majority of patients in ICU from March to August has been those over 44. In fact the numbers of admissions 379 and in the period of March to April there were around 5 to 6 times more patient in Scottish ICUs who were aged 45-84 than those aged 15-44. You may be right about there being more under 50s patients but I can't see that figure in Scotland and there are far more older people in Hospital with Covid in England. Can you point to a report that says that there are more under 50s in hospital. Here is what I looked at for England (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals)

[hibsforeurope]

I totally get that and believe people who are ‘anti vax’ are total idiots. But there needs to be more emphasis on increasing capacity of our health service as we all know this disease isn’t going anywhere

Looking at ways to prevent hospitalisations is and should be the priority. We don't have a magic money tree to be able to just build new hospitals/wards when the need arises, it would have to come out of some other sectors budget. Dealing with Covid (or any other disease/pandemic) as early as possible is always the best solution.

We will, likely, need to just live with Covid but like other diseases that have been vaccinated against it's manageable and cases are virtually zero.

[Moulin Yarns]

In reply to Wookie, not going to quote the whole post. The number of vaccinated is so much higher in that age group it then follows that the number infected is proportionately higher. It's all about percentages.

[wookie70]

The govt can only look at things on a population scale, hence the big stick approach.

In France, peoples "principles" soon disappeared when told they couldnt sit outside a cafe having a fag and a coffee without the Pass Sanitaire.

From what I can read the French Govt brought in Passports towards the end of July. Here is the graph for the French Vaccine uptake, looks like it flattened after July to me.

25070

[Andy74]

Absolute nonsense, double jabbed only means you re less likely to die from the virus and hence helps the NHS by not needing to go to hospital. Everyone vaccinated or not can still spread the virus, at the moment the majority of patients are below 50 with a vast majority not vaccinated, that in itself should tell you why getting the jab is important, also the new variants play a big part in this.

This just isn't true and it is amazing a lot of people are still repeating this.

The vaccine might not be 100% effective in stopping you getting the vaccine and also passing it on, but it absolutely does do this.

[LaMotta]

In reply to Wookie, not going to quote the whole post. The number of vaccinated is so much higher in that age group it then follows that the number infected is proportionately higher. It's all about percentages.

Yes good point.

That data on page 14 is very easily misinterpreted and is not the best way to measure vaccine effectiveness. It actually says this on page 13:

25071

[wookie70]

In reply to Wookie, not going to quote the whole post. The number of vaccinated is so much higher in that age group it then follows that the number infected is proportionately higher. It's all about percentages.

I obviously understand that but not sure if you understand per capita figures.

I was replying to someone who said there were more under 50s in hospital than over 50s. That isn't the case.

My other point is that there are more 40-79 year olds with it who are double vaxxed than who are not vaccinated. Percentages you mention aren't applicable as it is a per capita figure. You are more likely according to that NHS paper to have covid if you are between 40 and 79 if you are double vaxxed. That makes no sense to me given the Govt narrative on transmission but nobody is asking why that would be and I don't think I have read the figure wrong, glad to be corrected if I have.

[CapitalGreen]

From what I can read the French Govt brought in Passports towards the end of July. Here is the graph for the French Vaccine uptake, looks like it flattened after July to me.

25070

They weren’t official until the end of July but it was apparent in France that they were going to be introduced from late June/early July so the positive impact on vaccination would need to be measured from around then as people got vaccinated in preparation of their introduction.

[Stairway 2 7]

From what I can read the French Govt brought in Passports towards the end of July. Here is the graph for the French Vaccine uptake, looks like it flattened after July to me.

25070
Did you ignore when I put up this before. This is a graph of French vaccine uptake in the days around vaccine announcement. Complety flat then millions of bookings in the next couple of days after macrons announcement. There antivax stance went out the window when he said they couldn't even go into a pub or cafe
25072

[wookie70]

Yes good point.

That data on page 14 is very easily misinterpreted and is not the best way to measure vaccine effectiveness. It actually says this on page 13:

25071

I'm not sure I take your point. I'm not questioning whether the vaccine is effective in stopping hospitalisation or death. It works well for that. I'm also expecting more vaccinated older people to be in hospital as there are more of that group vaccinated. My points are around transmission and given the passports are about large events transmission is obviously an important part. The government make that clear in their reasoning. The per capita nature of the figures I quote takes care of the higher numbers of vaccinated people in the age group 40-79. I'm most certainly, as your post links to, not expecting the vaccine to be a silver bullet as has been mentioned here previously.

You have read the report if you pulled that para. Are you more likely on a per capita basis to have covid in the age group of 40-79 if you are double vaxxed or not vaccinated. And then explain why the government tells us effectiveness against transmission of the vaccination is one of the keys to passports, the first mentioned point they make in their paper. That doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing. My view is that behaviours are changed and that the usefulness of the vaccine against transmission is short in terms of time and has now pretty much worn out with the older cohort. There are papers to suggest that on Pfizer but not seen any on AZ but why else would double vaxxed people be more likely to catch it from 40-79 years old than the same age group who are unvaccinated.

Getting covid is still the most important factor in becoming ill so transmission has to be hugely important. I'm 53 so more likely, as a double vaxxed person, to be carrying it than one of my friends who has decided not to be vaccinated. I'm not convinced even with the stats on vaccinated people being less likely to pass it on or catch it given the figures for 40-79 year olds so I look at the figures and think I would be less likely to pass covid on if I hadn't been vaccinated. I'm actually content that it does stop transmission for a period of time as it looked that way a few months back but that picture is changing. Should the passports have any priority in the government agenda. No for me.

[calumhibee1]

I obviously understand that but not sure if you understand per capita figures.

I was replying to someone who said there were more under 50s in hospital than over 50s. That isn't the case.

My other point is that there are more 40-79 year olds with it who are double vaxxed than who are not vaccinated. Percentages you mention aren't applicable as it is a per capita figure. You are more likely according to that NHS paper to have covid if you are between 40 and 79 if you are double vaxxed. That makes no sense to me given the Govt narrative on transmission but nobody is asking why that would be and I don't think I have read the figure wrong, glad to be corrected if I have.

Of course there’s more people with COVID in that age group who are vaccinated. The overwhelming majority of people in that age group are vaccinated, so it goes without saying that they’ll make up the majority of infections.

The vaccinated have less infections per head, significantly less hospitalisations per head and significantly less deaths per head though.

I’m the 40-49 age group you’re around 8 times more likely to end up in hospital if you’re unvaccinated. You’re about 6 times more likely to die.

Whilst those numbers vary in different age groups, they all show the same picture. You’re generally slightly more likely to get infected if you’re unvaccinated, however you’re multiple times more likely to end up in hospital and multiple times more likely to die.

And if you end up in hospital, then you’re taking up not just one bed, but more than one bed due to the spacing requirements needed to treat Covid patients. That’s a couple of beds you’re taking away from someone who is on a waiting list and may die on a waiting list for other issues such as cancer etc. All because these folk want to believe wackos on Twitter rather than the experts.

To anyone that isn’t vaccinated. Get ****ing vaccinated and stop being a selfish prick.

[JeMeSouviens]

I obviously understand that but not sure if you understand per capita figures.

I was replying to someone who said there were more under 50s in hospital than over 50s. That isn't the case.

My other point is that there are more 40-79 year olds with it who are double vaxxed than who are not vaccinated. Percentages you mention aren't applicable as it is a per capita figure. You are more likely according to that NHS paper to have covid if you are between 40 and 79 if you are double vaxxed. That makes no sense to me given the Govt narrative on transmission but nobody is asking why that would be and I don't think I have read the figure wrong, glad to be corrected if I have.

You are totally wrong and spreading dangerous misinformation.

[wookie70]

Did you ignore when I put up this before. This is a graph of French vaccine uptake in the days around vaccine announcement. Complety flat then millions of bookings in the next couple of days after macrons announcement. There antivax stance went out the window when he said they couldn't even go into a pub or cafe
25072

No I simply never saw it. That looks completely different to the graph I found. Both appear to be from reputable sources. Yours certainly makes a case that in the short term coercion could be an effective way to get people to feel compelled to be vaccinated. Looks like the reason for the difference is my one if jags in the arm and your one is for bookings. In a month or so there may be a spike in the graph I shared if those bookings become vaccinations.

[Peevemor]

They weren’t official until the end of July but it was apparent in France that they were going to be introduced from late June/early July so the positive impact on vaccination would need to be measured from around then as people got vaccinated in preparation of their introduction.

Even before. Vaccination was first open to my age group (50-55) on the 10th of May and I made my appointment the following day because even then there was talk of passes being required for certain events - festivals, etc. I would have chosen to be vaccinated anyway, but I definitely wouldn't have been as quick off the mark if it wasn't for the "threat" of Covid passports being introduced.

[wookie70]

I totally get that and believe people who are ‘anti vax’ are total idiots. But there needs to be more emphasis on increasing capacity of our health service as we all know this disease isn’t going anywhere

There are 3000 NHS Scotland staff off sick now. Stopping transmission is the most important way to increase capacity as most of these workers are highly unlikely to need hospital care but are simply not able to work. You don't stop transmission by allowing 50k attendences at football matches regardless of vaccinations or passports

[rotherhamrob]

Probably because the Flu doesnt cause as many hospitalisations in the younger people who are currently in ITUs with Covid.

Hospitals could - just - deal with Flu epidemics each winter.

Covid has changed the landscape on beds / staffing.

There is limited / no headroom for beds in hospitals, so encouragement / boot up the bahookie is required to get the population vaccinated before winter.

None of this is tricky if you think about it, tbf.......
Flu doesn't cause as many hospitalizations in the young?
You might like to check that and while your at it check rsv in the young.

[calumhibee1]

Flu doesn't cause as many hospitalizations in the young?
You might like to check that and while your at it check rsv in the young.

Flu doesn’t cause as many hospitalisations as COVID, you surely can’t be arguing that point?

[CapitalGreen]

No I simply never saw it. That looks completely different to the graph I found. Both appear to be from reputable sources. Yours certainly makes a case that in the short term coercion could be an effective way to get people to feel compelled to be vaccinated. Looks like the reason for the difference is my one if jags in the arm and your one is for bookings. In a month or so there may be a spike in the graph I shared if those bookings become vaccinations.

Only if everyone booked their appointment for the same few days, which due to capacity constraints wouldn’t be possible. That’s why in your graph the curve steepens but is smoother.

Edit - also your graph contains second doses, to give a better representation of the vaccine uptake effect from vaccine passports only first doses should be included.

[wookie70]

You are totally wrong and spreading dangerous misinformation. Can you tell me why I am wrong. This is the table/graph I am looking at. Can you tell me how I am misunderstanding it. If I am I will be the first to apologise. The rates for vaccinated individuals are in black and the table is per 100K people and from the NHS albeit in England

25073

[wookie70]

Only if everyone booked their appointment for the same few days, which due to capacity constraints wouldn’t be possible. That’s why in your graph the curve steepens but is smoother.

Edit - also your graph contains second doses, to give a better representation of the vaccine uptake effect from vaccine passports only first doses should be included.

Point taken but I think my graph is simply doses administered, either first or second. If I had seen the other chart I would have been convinced coercion looks like it will work in France. This chart was the first I found when I looked.

[CapitalGreen]

Point taken but I think my graph is simply doses administered, either first or second. If I had seen the other chart I would have been convinced coercion looks like it will work in France. This chart was the first I found when I looked.

Yes which makes it inappropriate for use in a comparison of people going from unvaccinated to vaccinated. France started their vaccinations back in December 2020 so a lot of the positive growth in the chart prior to vaccine passports being introduced would be people getting their 2nd vaccine. The impact is much clearer if you look at first first doses alone as the graph below shows. First doses were levelling off towards the end of June then have spiked again when it became clear vaccine passports were coming in.

25074

[CentreLine]

What does this mean in terms of refunds on ST? Is it a case of just contacting the Club?

Maybe let us know when you’ve done. Sure there will be some people interested to know.

[CentreLine]

It's the biggest farce ever.

The vaccine is to limit serious health risk and in turn reduce the stress on the NHS? Correct?

So I'm assuming the Flu vaccine will also be apart of these vaccine passports? Everyone that's entitled to a flu jag must get one or same applies?

Cause if this isnt the case then why?

Once you get your head round the diffence between endemic and pandemic you should be reassured about that

[J-C]

If you’d read the posts that my reply was in response to you would see that I got my first jag at the earliest possible date for me and because I got covid when I was due my second I’ve to wait another 4 weeks for the vaccine (12 weeks from first jag) and a further 2 weeks until the jag is valid on the vaccination certificate. It’s not as black and white as you’re making out. Agree plenty are lazy/ignorant but plenty young folk have waited until it was their turn to protect those at higher risk - that was always my stance when my mum was hassling me to get a vaccine earlier than I was able to without claiming to be a carer which I was perfectly entitled to do
Sorry it wasn't aimed at you but younger people in general, I should've pointed that out.

[rotherhamrob]

Flu doesn’t cause as many hospitalisations as COVID, you surely can’t be arguing that point?

Nope,my bad,just assumed it was being insinuated that it was more dangerous for kids.
That'll teach me to read things properly.

[Santa Cruz]

By October 1st it will be over 8 weeks since 16-18 year olds could start getting vaccinated. Any 17 year old who wanted to be fully vaccinated before their 18th birthday in October could have done so.

I'm not sure that's correct. The JCVI have still to take a final decision when they will get their second dose. Last time I looked at their website it suggested a 12 week interval for the 2nd dose for this age group to give longer lasting immunity and less disruption to education with this age group sitting exams.

[CapitalGreen]

I'm not sure that's correct. The JCVI have still to take a final decision when they will get their second dose. Last time I looked at their website it suggested a 12 week interval for the 2nd dose for this age group to give longer lasting immunity and less disruption to education with this age group sitting exams.

The doesn’t apply to 17 year olds within 3 months of their 18th birthday

[Santa Cruz]

The doesn’t apply to 17 year olds within 3 months of their 18th birthday

Yip, that's right. I wouldn't have thought that's a big percentage in that age group though. Just pointing out no decision has been taken yet for the rest of that cohort. :aok:

[JeMeSouviens]

Can you tell me why I am wrong. This is the table/graph I am looking at. Can you tell me how I am misunderstanding it. If I am I will be the first to apologise. The rates for vaccinated individuals are in black and the table is per 100K people and from the NHS albeit in England

25073

The effectiveness of the vaccines against infection is well established in multiple large scale trials designed to show whether it is or isn't effective. You are selecting a limited subset of data and trying to draw a conclusion it doesn't support. I mean the fact that the report actually included a warning about such misinterpretation immediately preceding the data you lifted ought to have been a bit of a giveaway.

[Green Badger]

Can you tell me why I am wrong. This is the table/graph I am looking at. Can you tell me how I am misunderstanding it. If I am I will be the first to apologise. The rates for vaccinated individuals are in black and the table is per 100K people and from the NHS albeit in England

25073

Here's a good explanation of why you should maybe take that report and those graphs with a pinch of salt:

https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1436016682389184516
(https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1436016682389184516)

[LaMotta]

Can you tell me why I am wrong. This is the table/graph I am looking at. Can you tell me how I am misunderstanding it. If I am I will be the first to apologise. The rates for vaccinated individuals are in black and the table is per 100K people and from the NHS albeit in England

25073


The reason I think what you are asserting isnt quite right is because the graph shows infection rates per 100,000 based on overall population. (Or overall numbers of people in that age group).

Given that the majority of the population has been double vaxxed, (certainly in that age group) then it is to be expected that more vaccinated people per 100,000 people will have been infected.

As Moulin Yarns points out above somewhere, if you work out percentages of those getting infected out of the unvaccinated and vaccinated based on totals of each vaccinated status, then it would show that unvax more likely to get it.

Someone can tell me if im talking pish:greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
·
1h
These bars show you #COVID19 deaths among different age groups in England as a % of total cases in recent weeks.
The higher the bars, the higher the fatality rate.
The red bars are unvaccinated people.
The dark blue bars are fully vaccinated people
25076

[Moulin Yarns]

The reason I think what you are asserting isnt quite right is because the graph shows infection rates per 100,000 based on overall population. (Or overall numbers of people in that age group).

Given that the majority of the population has been double vaxxed, (certainly in that age group) then it is to be expected that more vaccinated people per 100,000 people will have been infected.

As Moulin Yarns points out above somewhere, if you work out percentages of those getting infected out of the unvaccinated and vaccinated based on totals of each vaccinated status, then it would show that unvax more likely to get it.

Someone can tell me if im talking pish:greengrin

Yer talking pish, but I agree with you 😉

That's exactly what I tried to say.

[The dalmeny]

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
·
1h
These bars show you #COVID19 deaths among different age groups in England as a % of total cases in recent weeks.
The higher the bars, the higher the fatality rate.
The red bars are unvaccinated people.
The dark blue bars are fully vaccinated people
25076

would have liked to see this in numbers not %s

[Stairway 2 7]

would have liked to see this in numbers not %s

92% of adults are vaccinated, almost 100% of over 50s. Over 50s pre vaccine used to account for 95% of deaths. This gives us vaccines stopping something like 98% of deaths. It's just the vaccinated number of people are so huge and higher the older you go.

For 75% of hospitalisations now to come from the 8% who are mainly weighted younger is unbelievable.

[The dalmeny]

92% of adults are vaccinated, almost 100% of over 50s. Over 50s pre vaccine used to account for 95% of deaths. This gives us vaccines stopping something like 98% of deaths. It's just the vaccinated number of people are so huge and higher the older you go.

For 75% of hospitalisations now to come from the 8% who are mainly weighted younger is unbelievable.

trouble is %s hide things,

almost 100% of over 50 are vaccinated but on the graph for the over 80s 3 times as many unvaccinated are dieing to every one vaccinated. So if 10 vaccinated die, that must be 30 unvaccinated die but almost 100% of that age group are vaccinated, confusing.

I suspect the numbers are there, but it starts robbing of me of my life to look into that

[wookie70]

The reason I think what you are asserting isnt quite right is because the graph shows infection rates per 100,000 based on overall population. (Or overall numbers of people in that age group).

Given that the majority of the population has been double vaxxed, (certainly in that age group) then it is to be expected that more vaccinated people per 100,000 people will have been infected.

As Moulin Yarns points out above somewhere, if you work out percentages of those getting infected out of the unvaccinated and vaccinated based on totals of each vaccinated status, then it would show that unvax more likely to get it.

Someone can tell me if im talking pish:greengrin


Right I get where you are coming from.

Is the 100K definitely including the whole population at that age group.

I took it to mean per 100k of vaccinated people(The heading is - Rates among persons vaccinated with 2 doses(per 100,000)) and 100K of unvaccinated people (heading in table being - Rates among persons not vaccinated(per 100,000)), hence my conclusion. If it had said rate per 100K of population I would have ignored it based on what you are saying. I still think I am reading the table as it reads but perhaps the wording is wrong or I have misunderstood it.

If it is how you have interpreted it, why report it like that. Surely a straight comparison what percentage in each group have Covid would be far more useful.

[Ronniekirk]

Can you not purchase the flu vaccine already ?
My employment give me a voucher for it to get it free from Lloyds chemist within certain months

Yes I get mine on the 18 th September from boots


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

trouble is %s hide things,

almost 100% of over 50 are vaccinated but on the graph for the over 80s 3 times as many unvaccinated are dieing to every one vaccinated. So if 10 vaccinated die, that must be 30 unvaccinated die but almost 100% of that age group are vaccinated, confusing.

I suspect the numbers are there, but it starts robbing of me of my life to look into that

Because vaccines are unbelievably good and stop 97% of serious illness, but 3% of a massive number is still big. People will still die if vaccinated, but the numbers will be low enough for us all to live and the NHS to cope whilst functioning

[Stokesy's on fire]

Stokesy’s on fire = Hibs.net’s Janey Godley


Jane Godley is another one of Sturgeons Muppet's. The sooner this modern day Thatcher is removed the better

[LaMotta]

Right I get where you are coming from.

Is the 100K definitely including the whole population at that age group.

I took it to mean per 100k of vaccinated people(The heading is - Rates among persons vaccinated with 2 doses(per 100,000)) and 100K of unvaccinated people (heading in table being - Rates among persons not vaccinated(per 100,000)), hence my conclusion. If it had said rate per 100K of population I would have ignored it based on what you are saying. I still think I am reading the table as it reads but perhaps the wording is wrong or I have misunderstood it.

If it is how you have interpreted it, why report it like that. Surely a straight comparison what percentage in each group have Covid would be far more useful.

You could be right.

If I am right then I very much agree with your last point though.

[Peevemor]

Jane Godley is another one of Sturgeons Muppet's. The sooner this modern day Thatcher is removed the better

If you're likening Sturgeon to Thatcher, I find it hard to believe that you lived through Thatcher. If you did then you werent paying attention.

[wookie70]

You could be right.

If I am right then I very much agree with your last point though.

Thanks, I am not setting out to misrepresent tables etc and certainly not to scare people and appreciate you challenging without calling me stupid or selfish.

I mistrust the Government and media and with all the spin I like to look at the stats and try and make my own mind up.

I will say the stats in the document do an excellent job of convincing me that having the vaccination was a good choice for me(and most others), with a highlight on choice. The part I am prattling on about took me by surprise because if it is how I interpret, and how I think it is written, then I feel it needs explanation. It doesn't mean the vaccine isn't better at stopping transmission but it may indicate that it only works for a short time and that those that were early adopters may already be back to square one at least in terms of their danger to others. Studies are suggesting that for Pfizer already. If so, surely that makes passports a ridiculous thing to bring in particularly as they have a duration of a year and that isn't even based on what date you were vaccinated rather when you applied for the passport.

I'm sticking to my guns on the figures we are discussing. I can't see how that table can be read as per 100k of population. Maybe that is what the data is but it certainly isn't headed that way.

[The dalmeny]

Because vaccines are unbelievably good and stop 97% of serious illness, but 3% of a massive number is still big. People will still die if vaccinated, but the numbers will be low enough for us all to live and the NHS to cope whilst functioning


Not disputing the effectiveness of vaccination. My problem is with the graph because the comparison is vaccinated v unvaccinated. over 80s could represent a total of 100 people 50-59 could be 10000

[lord bunberry]

How many pages has it been since this thread had anything to do with football? There’s a thread on the holy ground to talk about this kind of thing. I click on this thread now and again to try and find out what’s going to be happening when I need to show my passport at the football and all I read is page after page of people arguing about covid. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

If you're likening Sturgeon to Thatcher, I find it hard to believe that you lived through Thatcher. If you did then you werent paying attention.

I'm wondering if there’s been a change of username 🤔

[Hibs90]

Jane Godley is another one of Sturgeons Muppet's. The sooner this modern day Thatcher is removed the better

Cheers for that, funniest thing I've read on here possibly ever.


:faf:

[Stokesy's on fire]

Cheers for that, funniest thing I've read on here possibly ever.


:faf:


More than welcome :greengrin

[wookie70]

Here's a good explanation of why you should maybe take that report and those graphs with a pinch of salt:

https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1436016682389184516
(https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1436016682389184516)

Thanks that explains it better. I don't use twitter very often so was unaware anyone else had even noticed that.

Assuming that twitter author is correct, I was right it is 100k of vaccinated v 100k of unvaccinated. I mentioned in previous posts some of the reasons the figures could be the opposite of what was expected could be behaviour of the vaccinated and the vaccine losing its effectiveness over time. I have noted in this thread that previous data are based on figures before Delta and the picture may have changed. I have suggested that antibodies from prior infection play a large part in stopping people getting covid again and maybe even more than the vaccine(given reports I linked to). I missed out the willingness to be tested but not sure I agree with him there but who knows and how would you ever find out.

The big reason these the figures distort this is that the Government are using a set of figures for the unvaccinated that the author on twitter says are out of date and he presents a more expected graph that he is pretty sure better reflects the unvaccinated population but he isn't sure is spot on either.

I'll read the report again but surely that would have been a useful disclaimer to put in bold.

The tweet does however temper my view on whether the 40-79 cohort are more likely to have covid if vaccinated or unvaccinated. I think I will have the view of needs further studies/info/clarification. That seems to be what pretty much every scientific paper says anyway.

I hope the author is right though and that the vaccine is still doing a decent job of stopping transmission. We are potentially inviting a world of pain having 50k crowds if he is wrong and the Govts figures are correct.

I'm sure those that accused me of not understanding percentages will be along shortly

[wookie70]

How many pages has it been since this thread had anything to do with football? There’s a thread on the holy ground to talk about this kind of thing. I click on this thread now and again to try and find out what’s going to be happening when I need to show my passport at the football and all I read is page after page of people arguing about covid. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Unless exempt you will from 1st Oct.

[Sir David Gray]

How many pages has it been since this thread had anything to do with football? There’s a thread on the holy ground to talk about this kind of thing. I click on this thread now and again to try and find out what’s going to be happening when I need to show my passport at the football and all I read is page after page of people arguing about covid. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

It was confirmed yesterday as 1st October, first time it will be used at Easter Road will be 16th October.

The SPFL and SFA Joint Response Group are in consultations with the Government to see if they can get away with doing spot checks rather than checking every single supporter over the of 18.

[CMurdoch]

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
·
1h
These bars show you #COVID19 deaths among different age groups in England as a % of total cases in recent weeks.
The higher the bars, the higher the fatality rate.
The red bars are unvaccinated people.
The dark blue bars are fully vaccinated people
25076

If that is accurate and I am interpreting it the right way it clearly points a massive reason to be vaccinated.
For example in the 50-59 age group I am reading that of the people in that group who had covid in that time period 1.3% of the unvaxinated group died compared to 0.1% of the vaccinated group. In essence a person between those ages was 13 times more likely to have died if not vaccinated.

[LaMotta]

Thanks, I am not setting out to misrepresent tables etc and certainly not to scare people and appreciate you challenging without calling me stupid or selfish.

I mistrust the Government and media and with all the spin I like to look at the stats and try and make my own mind up.

I will say the stats in the document do an excellent job of convincing me that having the vaccination was a good choice for me(and most others), with a highlight on choice. The part I am prattling on about took me by surprise because if it is how I interpret, and how I think it is written, then I feel it needs explanation. It doesn't mean the vaccine isn't better at stopping transmission but it may indicate that it only works for a short time and that those that were early adopters may already be back to square one at least in terms of their danger to others. Studies are suggesting that for Pfizer already. If so, surely that makes passports a ridiculous thing to bring in particularly as they have a duration of a year and that isn't even based on what date you were vaccinated rather when you applied for the passport.

I'm sticking to my guns on the figures we are discussing. I can't see how that table can be read as per 100k of population. Maybe that is what the data is but it certainly isn't headed that way.

I totally see the point you are making based on those figures on pg 14.

That said, on page 7 of same report it states categorically that the Vaccine helps reduce transmission:

25077

[Lancs Harp]

Just knew I would need a passport to come and watch Hibs one day. :wink:

Without trawling through the thread will I need a my vaccine passport for the St Johnstone match at the end of the month? I am double jabbed anyway.

[Stairway 2 7]

Just knew I would need a passport to come and watch His one day. :wink:

Without trawling through the thread will I need a my vaccine passport for the St Johnstone match at the end of the month? I am double jabbed anyway.

Nope first game hibs United in the league. Actually had a mate that took his passport for the border check when going down to Blackpool many moons ago.

[ekhibee]

If you're likening Sturgeon to Thatcher, I find it hard to believe that you lived through Thatcher. If you did then you werent paying attention.

This.

[lord bunberry]

Unless exempt you will from 1st Oct.


It was confirmed yesterday as 1st October, first time it will be used at Easter Road will be 16th October.

The SPFL and SFA Joint Response Group are in consultations with the Government to see if they can get away with doing spot checks rather than checking every single supporter over the of 18.
Thanks. You’d think season ticket holders would be able to show their vaccination status at the ticket office or online beforehand and that would suffice for a predetermined period. I don’t really see the point in having to show your status for every game, it’s not going to change.

[ekhibee]

Thanks. You’d think season ticket holders would be able to show their vaccination status at the ticket office or online beforehand and that would suffice for a predetermined period. I don’t really see the point in having to show your status for every game, it’s not going to change.

I know what you mean, but I got both my jags by the middle of May and have the letter to proove it, but since then I have contracted COVID, so maybe my status has changed, I dunno.

[lord bunberry]

I know what you mean, but I got both my jags by the middle of May and have the letter to proove it, but since then I have contracted COVID, so maybe my status has changed, I dunno.
As far as I’m aware it’s only to prove your vaccination status.

[calumhibee1]

Thanks. You’d think season ticket holders would be able to show their vaccination status at the ticket office or online beforehand and that would suffice for a predetermined period. I don’t really see the point in having to show your status for every game, it’s not going to change.

I suppose the argument would be that you could give your ticket to an unvaxxed person.

Since the tickets are supposed to be non transferable then I’d imagine Hibs could cover themselves with that.

[wookie70]

Thanks. You’d think season ticket holders would be able to show their vaccination status at the ticket office or online beforehand and that would suffice for a predetermined period. I don’t really see the point in having to show your status for every game, it’s not going to change.

If everyone does I would expect you would want to turn up at least 30 minutes before you usually do. From what was said earlier there isn't a way to scan the passports at fitba grounds yet. Mind you they have a huge 21 days to both precure and pay for the necessary equipment. Even then and if it goes really well it will still slow down entry. I suspect spot checks, people without passports chancing it and stewards having to deal with the fallout. There are still countless question anyway regarding proving your ID, will photo ID be needed, what to do when the name on a ticket doesn't match the name of the ticket holder etc etc.

I disagree that your status will change though during a 8 month period. There is a fair chance you will need a booster and an updated passport. Lots of other new findings could also change the view to Passports. If Sturgeon and Harvie are to be believed in the past I don't think Passports sits easily with them.

Showing your Passport to the Ticket Office staff sounds like a good idea but that is putting more work on them and it may change the type of IT and data requirements they need, Thinking back to my training medical data is in the special category which is more protected and may have different timetables for deletion, requirements for security etc. On the face of it the idea sounds good but I suspect the legalities may be different. It wouldn't surprise me if there is debate around GDPR in terms of passports depending on how they are scanned and how the information is stored. I'd be amazed if there wasn't a GDPR expert on here who will know if there is any difficulties in your suggestion.

[wookie70]

As far as I’m aware it’s only to prove your vaccination status.

You could have covid while gaining entry as long as you have a passport and a ticket, possibly even in different names

[lord bunberry]

I suppose the argument would be that you could give your ticket to an unvaxxed person.

Since the tickets are supposed to be non transferable then I’d imagine Hibs could cover themselves with that.
I suppose the club would have to make people aware that we can’t do that and there will be consequences if we do.

[lord bunberry]

If everyone does I would expect you would want to turn up at least 30 minutes before you usually do. From what was said earlier there isn't a way to scan the passports at fitba grounds yet. Mind you they have a huge 21 days to both precure and pay for the necessary equipment. Even then and if it goes really well it will still slow down entry. I suspect spot checks, people without passports chancing it and stewards having to deal with the fallout. There are still countless question anyway regarding proving your ID, will photo ID be needed, what to do when the name on a ticket doesn't match the name of the ticket holder etc etc.

I disagree that your status will change though during a 8 month period. There is a fair chance you will need a booster and an updated passport. Lots of other new findings could also change the view to Passports. If Sturgeon and Harvie are to be believed in the past I don't think Passports sits easily with them.

Showing your Passport to the Ticket Office staff sounds like a good idea but that is putting more work on them and it may change the type of IT and data requirements they need, Thinking back to my training medical data is in the special category which is more protected and may have different timetables for deletion, requirements for security etc. On the face of it the idea sounds good but I suspect the legalities may be different. It wouldn't surprise me if there is debate around GDPR in terms of passports depending on how they are scanned and how the information is stored. I'd be amazed if there wasn't a GDPR expert on here who will know if there is any difficulties in your suggestion.
I read the other day that the software to check the codes was going to be free and could be downloaded to a phone.

You could have covid while gaining entry as long as you have a passport and a ticket, possibly even in different names
That’s obviously the case now as well. The whole point of this I’d imagine is to try and reduce the chances of spreading the virus, there isn’t a way to stop it completely unless you close the stadium.

[Stairway 2 7]

If everyone does I would expect you would want to turn up at least 30 minutes before you usually do. From what was said earlier there isn't a way to scan the passports at fitba grounds yet. Mind you they have a huge 21 days to both precure and pay for the necessary equipment. Even then and if it goes really well it will still slow down entry. I suspect spot checks, people without passports chancing it and stewards having to deal with the fallout. There are still countless question anyway regarding proving your ID, will photo ID be needed, what to do when the name on a ticket doesn't match the name of the ticket holder etc etc.

I disagree that your status will change though during a 8 month period. There is a fair chance you will need a booster and an updated passport. Lots of other new findings could also change the view to Passports. If Sturgeon and Harvie are to be believed in the past I don't think Passports sits easily with them.

Showing your Passport to the Ticket Office staff sounds like a good idea but that is putting more work on them and it may change the type of IT and data requirements they need, Thinking back to my training medical data is in the special category which is more protected and may have different timetables for deletion, requirements for security etc. On the face of it the idea sounds good but I suspect the legalities may be different. It wouldn't surprise me if there is debate around GDPR in terms of passports depending on how they are scanned and how the information is stored. I'd be amazed if there wasn't a GDPR expert on here who will know if there is any difficulties in your suggestion.

All they need is a mobile phone tablet or barcode scanner. When they scan the barcode on your phone it will pop up your name and status on there device, if matches your ticket in you go. They do it in many countries already. I'm sure the management of g4s or whoever have the contract will have went to a game in France and see how it goes

[Mikey_1875]

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/statement-on-the-scottish-governments-covid-vaccine-passport-scheme?fbclid=IwAR1UY5v_uBP5kOIqHibdjltQcJZfbidfbI kZOAghFUjJumRf3LGGrzGmduw

Club statement on the passports, doesn’t say much apart from calling for patience

[HibbyAndy]

Can i ask a really stupid question :greengrin

Is the 'vaccine passport' your letter you get confirming you have had both jabs ?

[O'Rourke3]

Can i ask a really stupid question :greengrin

Is the 'vaccine passport' your letter you get confirming you have had both jabs ?Yes. And you can now download a pdf to your phone with qr codes of the details.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

If you're likening Sturgeon to Thatcher, I find it hard to believe that you lived through Thatcher. If you did then you werent paying attention.


quite possibly the most imbecilic post i've ever read on here :agree:

[Billy Whizz]

Can i ask a really stupid question :greengrin

Is the 'vaccine passport' your letter you get confirming you have had both jabs ?

Yes, and it will be available on an app at the end of the month

[HibbyAndy]

Yes. And you can now download a pdf to your phone with qr codes of the details.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Yes, and it will be available on an app at the end of the month



Cheers guys :aok:

[LunasBoots]

Can i ask a really stupid question :greengrin

Is the 'vaccine passport' your letter you get confirming you have had both jabs ?

If you've got your details you can download it on your smartphone from the nhs inform site, makes it simpler than having to carry a bit of paper round with you.

[Billy Whizz]

Cheers guys :aok:

Multi quoting now Andy, coming on leaps and bounds😀

[HibbyAndy]

If you've got your details you can download it on your smartphone from the nhs inform site, makes it simpler than having to carry a bit of paper round with you.



Yeah mate done that also , Cheers



Multi quoting now Andy, coming on leaps and bounds😀

Billy back in the day i used to be an avid poster and kent how to multi quote , Highlight , Font , Images the lot :greengrin

[Onion]

I suppose the argument would be that you could give your ticket to an unvaxxed person.

Since the tickets are supposed to be non transferable then I’d imagine Hibs could cover themselves with that.

Likely path is for all vaxed ST holders to upload their vax cert (or QR code) to Hibs. Hibs then mark their record with a big tick, and arrange for photo to be added to ST card or digital ST. Cost attached to that, but only have to do it once.

None of that will stop a ST holder giving their ticket to someone who is unvaxed, but should deter and make detection easier for stewards when they randomly ask to see the photo. Anyone caught trying to enter with someone else's ST, then ST holder loses their ticket.

[CropleyWasGod]

Likely path is for all vaxed ST holders to upload their vax cert (or QR code) to Hibs. Hibs then mark their record with a big tick, and arrange for photo to be added to ST card or digital ST. Cost attached to that, but only have to do it once.

None of that will stop a ST holder giving their ticket to someone who is unvaxed, but should deter and make detection easier for stewards when they randomly ask to see the photo. Anyone caught trying to enter with someone else's ST, then ST holder loses their ticket.

Why do ST not include a photo already? Is it a cost thing?

[J-C]

Jane Godley is another one of Sturgeons Muppet's. The sooner this modern day Thatcher is removed the better


:faf::faf::faf:

Laughing at you because I find it hard to believe you posted that in all seriousness.

[Moulin Yarns]

If everyone does I would expect you would want to turn up at least 30 minutes before you usually do. From what was said earlier there isn't a way to scan the passports at fitba grounds yet. Mind you they have a huge 21 days to both precure and pay for the necessary equipment. Even then and if it goes really well it will still slow down entry. I suspect spot checks, people without passports chancing it and stewards having to deal with the fallout. There are still countless question anyway regarding proving your ID, will photo ID be needed, what to do when the name on a ticket doesn't match the name of the ticket holder etc etc.

I disagree that your status will change though during a 8 month period. There is a fair chance you will need a booster and an updated passport. Lots of other new findings could also change the view to Passports. If Sturgeon and Harvie are to be believed in the past I don't think Passports sits easily with them.

Showing your Passport to the Ticket Office staff sounds like a good idea but that is putting more work on them and it may change the type of IT and data requirements they need, Thinking back to my training medical data is in the special category which is more protected and may have different timetables for deletion, requirements for security etc. On the face of it the idea sounds good but I suspect the legalities may be different. It wouldn't surprise me if there is debate around GDPR in terms of passports depending on how they are scanned and how the information is stored. I'd be amazed if there wasn't a GDPR expert on here who will know if there is any difficulties in your suggestion.

Did you miss the fact that most smart phones have QR readers.

The information in the QR code will be read easily and give the steward your name, age and date of vaccine (probably the version of vaccine as well) I don't think any new equipment is required.

I easily got a QR code for my website. Any smart phone can read it and be taken straight to the website.

Rocket science it is not.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Why do ST not include a photo already? Is it a cost thing?

Don't want to scare the sanner😉

[CentreLine]

:faf::faf::faf:

Laughing at you because I find it hard to believe you posted that in all seriousness.

Think there is a fair whiff of attention seeking going on with that poster. Best ignored at least until they’ve reached secondary school age

[Eyrie]

Thinking about the practicalities of this.

If you arrive and there's a queue, then it's easy enough for a steward to check your covid passport whilst you're waiting to get through the turnstile and it won't delay you getting in.

If there's no queue, then the few seconds it will take for a check won't delay you.

It might not be practical to check everyone, but a large enough proportion can be checked to provide both reassurance and deterrence.

[calumhibee1]

Likely path is for all vaxed ST holders to upload their vax cert (or QR code) to Hibs. Hibs then mark their record with a big tick, and arrange for photo to be added to ST card or digital ST. Cost attached to that, but only have to do it once.

None of that will stop a ST holder giving their ticket to someone who is unvaxed, but should deter and make detection easier for stewards when they randomly ask to see the photo. Anyone caught trying to enter with someone else's ST, then ST holder loses their ticket.

Yeah I reckon that’ll be the route we go down as well.

The Ts and Cs of not handing over season tickets will cover Hibs.

[Peevemor]

Thinking about the practicalities of this.

If you arrive and there's a queue, then it's easy enough for a steward to check your covid passport whilst you're waiting to get through the turnstile and it won't delay you getting in.

If there's no queue, then the few seconds it will take for a check won't delay you.

It might not be practical to check everyone, but a large enough proportion can be checked to provide both reassurance and deterrence.As I've already said, that's about 6 weeks I've had mine and I've used it loads of times with no hassle whatsoever , including at the Lorient festival where there were thousands of people about.

As long as you have your pass ready to be scanned there's no need for any delays.

[Risboro Hibby]

I have been reading some of the comments on here and can’t believe how Covid has made us lose our backbone. For goodness sake the people who have been vaccinated should be at no risk from those who haven’t. If you believe in the vaccination it will save you from serious illness. Our medical history should be no concern to the Government and for a government to ask a football club or any private company to do this is just unbelievable. Every football club’s fans that have over 10 k at matches, should be marching on the Scottish Parliament today and demanding that this restriction on our Civil liberties never sees the light of day.

[Helensburghhibs]

If everyone does I would expect you would want to turn up at least 30 minutes before you usually do. From what was said earlier there isn't a way to scan the passports at fitba grounds yet. Mind you they have a huge 21 days to both precure and pay for the necessary equipment. Even then and if it goes really well it will still slow down entry. I suspect spot checks, people without passports chancing it and stewards having to deal with the fallout. There are still countless question anyway regarding proving your ID, will photo ID be needed, what to do when the name on a ticket doesn't match the name of the ticket holder etc etc.

I disagree that your status will change though during a 8 month period. There is a fair chance you will need a booster and an updated passport. Lots of other new findings could also change the view to Passports. If Sturgeon and Harvie are to be believed in the past I don't think Passports sits easily with them.

Showing your Passport to the Ticket Office staff sounds like a good idea but that is putting more work on them and it may change the type of IT and data requirements they need, Thinking back to my training medical data is in the special category which is more protected and may have different timetables for deletion, requirements for security etc. On the face of it the idea sounds good but I suspect the legalities may be different. It wouldn't surprise me if there is debate around GDPR in terms of passports depending on how they are scanned and how the information is stored. I'd be amazed if there wasn't a GDPR expert on here who will know if there is any difficulties in your suggestion.

Some of th training I provide at work requires people to sign a medical declaration relating to covid, we have to handle this data as medical in confidence and retain for 18 months. I'd assume this is no different

[Peevemor]

I have been reading some of the comments on here and can’t believe how Covid has made us lose our backbone. For goodness sake the people who have been vaccinated should be at no risk from those who haven’t. If you believe in the vaccination it will save you from serious illness. Our medical history should be no concern to the Government and for a government to ask a football club or any private company to do this is just unbelievable. Every football club’s fans that have over 10 k at matches, should be marching on the Scottish Parliament today and demanding that this restriction on our Civil liberties never sees the light of day.So do you think having more than 10k vaccinated people in the same place is a good idea?

[Stairway 2 7]

I have been reading some of the comments on here and can’t believe how Covid has made us lose our backbone. For goodness sake the people who have been vaccinated should be at no risk from those who haven’t. If you believe in the vaccination it will save you from serious illness. Our medical history should be no concern to the Government and for a government to ask a football club or any private company to do this is just unbelievable. Every football club’s fans that have over 10 k at matches, should be marching on the Scottish Parliament today and demanding that this restriction on our Civil liberties never sees the light of day.

It will save 97% of us the rest will get severe disease, times that by thousands. We're going round in circles though, get vaccinated or your watching tam and the gang on hibs tv

[Eyrie]

I have been reading some of the comments on here and can’t believe how Covid has made us lose our backbone. For goodness sake the people who have been vaccinated should be at no risk from those who haven’t. If you believe in the vaccination it will save you from serious illness. Our medical history should be no concern to the Government and for a government to ask a football club or any private company to do this is just unbelievable. Every football club’s fans that have over 10 k at matches, should be marching on the Scottish Parliament today and demanding that this restriction on our Civil liberties never sees the light of day.

No vaccine is 100% effective, but it makes it much less likely that you will catch the virus, suffer as badly from it or pass it on compared to an unvaccinated person.

So someone who has had both shots still has a risk of catching it from an unvaccinated person and a much lower risk of catching it from a vaccinated person. it's the overall reduction in risk that counts.

As regards civil liberties, why should your liberty to not be vaccinated be more important that the liberty of everyone around you to minimise their risk of catching Covid? Choices have consequences, and if you don't like the consequences of your choice, then you need to rethink your decision, not blame others for your own selfishness.

[greenflyer]

I have been reading some of the comments on here and can’t believe how Covid has made us lose our backbone. For goodness sake the people who have been vaccinated should be at no risk from those who haven’t. If you believe in the vaccination it will save you from serious illness. Our medical history should be no concern to the Government and for a government to ask a football club or any private company to do this is just unbelievable. Every football club’s fans that have over 10 k at matches, should be marching on the Scottish Parliament today and demanding that this restriction on our Civil liberties never sees the light of day.

That is nonsense because some people have not had vaccinations. Predominantly younger people. It is better to have some precautions in place to allow events to go ahead especially as the number of cases in the country are increasing. This could also be a consequence of crowd events being open.

[Rumble de Thump]

I have been reading some of the comments on here and can’t believe how Covid has made us lose our backbone. For goodness sake the people who have been vaccinated should be at no risk from those who haven’t. If you believe in the vaccination it will save you from serious illness. Our medical history should be no concern to the Government and for a government to ask a football club or any private company to do this is just unbelievable. Every football club’s fans that have over 10 k at matches, should be marching on the Scottish Parliament today and demanding that this restriction on our Civil liberties never sees the light of day.

Which aspects of our medical history do you think the government will be accessing? And which politicians do you think will be checking this at the stadium? It does seem that when people mention civil liberties in relation to this they don't tend to really understand what that means.

[Risboro Hibby]

This is my point here. Replies to the post have assumed I have not been vaccinated . I might have and if so I will trust the vaccine , just like flu vaccine to minimise the risk here and hopefully should I sometime catch Covid hopefully it will give me enough protection to not get seriously ill. Therefore it is no concern to me whether the person sitting next to me has been vaccinated. If I haven’t as an adult I am aware of the risks and prepared to accept them. The person sitting next to me would not be at any more risk than a vaccinated person sitting next to them. The choice is entirely my business and no Government should be given the powers to stop anyone from watching the Hibs or going to a public event. Their actions here are no more than emotional blackmail .

[Rumble de Thump]

This is my point here. Replies to the post have assumed I have not been vaccinated . I might have and if so I will trust the vaccine , just like flu vaccine to minimise the risk here and hopefully should I sometime catch Covid hopefully it will give me enough protection to not get seriously ill. Therefore it is no concern to me whether the person sitting next to me has been vaccinated. If I haven’t as an adult I am aware of the risks and prepared to accept them. The person sitting next to me would not be at any more risk than a vaccinated person sitting next to them. The choice is entirely my business and no Government should be given the powers to stop anyone from watching the Hibs or going to a public event. Their actions here are no more than emotional blackmail .

The point of the vaccine passports is to avoid people having to just 'hope' they don't become seriously ill if they get the virus. It's also about trying to prevent people who are happy to catch it and pass it on to other from doing so. Your comments are, unfortunately, complete and utter nonsense.

[OstKurve Hibs]

The point of the vaccine passports is to avoid people having to just 'hope' they don't become seriously ill if they get the virus. It's also about trying to prevent people who are happy to catch it and pass it on to other from doing so. Your comments are, unfortunately, complete and utter nonsense.

Since when did choosing not to be vaccinated mean people were happy to catch it and pass it on ?, clowns like you just dont get it, very selfish way of thinking.

I havent been vaccinated and I choose not to but not once have I ever thought, oh I cant wait to catch covid then go out and spread it around on purpose to make me happy, have a word wi yourself,

[calumhibee1]

I have been reading some of the comments on here and can’t believe how Covid has made us lose our backbone. For goodness sake the people who have been vaccinated should be at no risk from those who haven’t. If you believe in the vaccination it will save you from serious illness. Our medical history should be no concern to the Government and for a government to ask a football club or any private company to do this is just unbelievable. Every football club’s fans that have over 10 k at matches, should be marching on the Scottish Parliament today and demanding that this restriction on our Civil liberties never sees the light of day.

Well this is one of the most stupid things I’ve read today.

[Rumble de Thump]

Since when did choosing not to be vaccinated mean people were happy to catch it and pass it on ?, clowns like you just dont get it, very selfish way of thinking.

I havent been vaccinated and I choose not to but not once have I ever thought, oh I cant wait to catch covid then go out and spread it around on purpose to make me happy, have a word wi yourself,

When they wanted to sit next to other people in a football stadium for a couple of hours? You've completely lost the plot.

[Stairway 2 7]

Since when did choosing not to be vaccinated mean people were happy to catch it and pass it on ?, clowns like you just dont get it, very selfish way of thinking.

I havent been vaccinated and I choose not to but not once have I ever thought, oh I cant wait to catch covid then go out and spread it around on purpose to make me happy, have a word wi yourself,

From the outside it looks like someone saying, just because I jumped out a plane without a parachute why assume I was OK with getting blootered. May I ask why you don't want it

[Moulin Yarns]

The latest infections figures are 1 in 45, take that figure to tynecastle and approximately 400 people will be infected and could pass it on to the people beside them.

Think about it.

[Sir David Gray]

I have been reading some of the comments on here and can’t believe how Covid has made us lose our backbone. For goodness sake the people who have been vaccinated should be at no risk from those who haven’t. If you believe in the vaccination it will save you from serious illness. Our medical history should be no concern to the Government and for a government to ask a football club or any private company to do this is just unbelievable. Every football club’s fans that have over 10 k at matches, should be marching on the Scottish Parliament today and demanding that this restriction on our Civil liberties never sees the light of day.

Unfortunately there's enough people who are currently not fully vaccinated for there to be a problem (over 400,000 people in Scotland over 16 who are still without any dose at all and a further 370,000+ people who only have partial protection with one dose).

We are seeing that just now in the hospital numbers which have trebled in the space of the last 3 weeks and we now have almost 1,000 people in hospital who have tested positive for Covid-19 in the past 28 days.

We need to do something to keep us out of lockdown as that's the way it's currently heading. If anything this passport isn't going far enough and should also include indoor venues like pubs and restaurants.

[660]

This is my point here. Replies to the post have assumed I have not been vaccinated . I might have and if so I will trust the vaccine , just like flu vaccine to minimise the risk here and hopefully should I sometime catch Covid hopefully it will give me enough protection to not get seriously ill. Therefore it is no concern to me whether the person sitting next to me has been vaccinated. If I haven’t as an adult I am aware of the risks and prepared to accept them. The person sitting next to me would not be at any more risk than a vaccinated person sitting next to them. The choice is entirely my business and no Government should be given the powers to stop anyone from watching the Hibs or going to a public event. Their actions here are no more than emotional blackmail .

I lost brain cells reading this cretinous post. You do not understand what the vaccine does and how it works.