Jack Ross out

[superfurryhibby]

I think it’s obvious what most would class as a “big” game. Already been pointed out on here numerous times without anybody really ‘moving the goal posts’ from what I have seen. Old Firm, Hearts, Aberdeen, Semis and finals would be what I classed as bigger games

Most people would agree with what you describe, it's not rocket science. Of course there is a degree of movable feast in there too. If the Sheep were struggling and say, Livi were our main rivals for third or whatever, that would become a big game.

[Allez Hibs]

Cummings and solo Malonga special.

Did you see my post at #1456?

Sorry, missed it 👍

Was a proper performance that night

[Allez Hibs]

The Thread Title is Ross Out !

Can we have a poll?

[calumhibee1]

The Thread Title is Ross Out !

It’s probably a bad thread title for the discussions that have been taking place since Sunday.

Once the dust has settled there’s been next to no suggestion on this thread that he should be sacked. It just seems to have become the place to discuss pretty much everything JR and/or cup final related.

[Brizo]

I agree with your second sentence, but if we’d turned up on Saturday and still lost, the criticism of Ross would be far less.

Agree with this. I think most people thought the outcome was too close to call and it could go either way.

It was the manner of the defeat, the lack of fight shown by the players and the fact that nothing had changed in JRs tactics from previous reverses against St J that has heightened the discontent.

[Kavinho]

I recall a game against Livingston during the run being called the biggest game of the season.


This thread is miles off track now.

Jack Ross to stay. We continue to make very clear progress and will continue to improve as we go.

[bingo70]

Most people would agree with what you describe, it's not rocket science. Of course there is a degree of movable feast in there too. If the Sheep were struggling and say, Livi were our main rivals for third or whatever, that would become a big game.

Yeah, I think the ones moving the goal posts are the ones that are pretending they don’t know what a big game is.

It’s obvious what a big game is and of course Aberdeen’s name could dip in and out depending on how they’re doing in the league.

If Hibs have a disaster next season and we’re 12th in the league and Ross County are 11th, then Ross County becomes a big game, seems obvious.

[Since452]

I am a Jack Ross fan. Some people aren't. One thing that we can all agree on is Saturdays pathetic attempt at a cup final was unacceptable. There needs to be a post-mortem internally, there needs to be accountability and there needs to be players that either don't pull our colours on again or bust an absolute gut to make up for it. Either or, no in-between. That is down to Jack Ross and he needs to earn his coin and make sure it happens. I'm willing to give him that opportunity.

[calumhibee1]

I am a Jack Ross fan. Some people aren't. One thing that we can all agree on is Saturdays pathetic attempt at a cup final was unacceptable. There needs to be a post-mortem internally, there needs to be accountability and there needs to be players that either don't pull our colours on again or bust an absolute gut to make up for it. Either or, no in-between. That is down to Jack Ross and he needs to earn his coin and make sure it happens. I'm willing to give him that opportunity.

Well said :agree:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I recall a game against Livingston during the run being called the biggest game of the season.


This thread is miles off track now.

Jack Ross to stay. We continue to make very clear progress and will continue to improve as we go.

Only classed as a big game if we’d lost it.

[Hibbyradge]

The wee laughing emoji is annoying as it’s unnecessary and belittles your point imo.

I don’t think he should be sacked but I couldn’t argue with the points you’ve made before the daft emoji. I don’t think Ross is good at those things.

He has however been good at building a good squad of players.

I think he’s built the 3rd best squad in the country this season so of course he shouldn’t be sacked.

Tactically I’ve not seen anything brilliant from him if plan A isn’t working and I think that’s reflected in our record in games when we lose the first goal. His record in big games isn’t good, that’s not me saying he’s lost them all, he hasn’t and I do find his interviews boring and robot like.

On the flip side to that though there’s every chance he could build on the squad he’s built this season next season though and the idea of paying £100,000’s to sack him would be madness.

The emoji indicates that I think the contradiction is funny. I don't think there's an absurd smiley.

Why would people want to keep a manager who is tactically naive, poor in front of the media, that can't win big games, and doesn't change games when it's obvious our game plan is failing? That doesn't make sense.

What else is there that we're paying hundreds of thousands of pounds for?

[J-C]

It's not just losing but in the manner in which we lost these so called big games, add in the losses at home to Livi, Ross C, Aberdeen, Motherwell and St Johnstone.

[jeffers]

The emoji indicates that I think the contradiction is funny. I don't think there's an absurd smiley.

Why would people want to keep a manager who is tactically naive, poor in front of the media, that can't win big games, and doesn't change games when it's obvious our game plan is failing? That doesn't make sense.

What else is there that we're paying hundreds of thousands of pounds for?

Because he’s signed some decent players and achieved an excellent position in the league. He deserves the chance to prove any doubters wrong, but as I said earlier that’s up to him to do so. You must recognise that there elements of your second sentence are valid points up for debate, even if you don’t necessarily agree with them ?

[blackpoolhibs]

It's not just losing but in the manner in which we lost inese so called big games, add in the losses at home to Livi, Ross C, Aberdeen, Motherwell and St Johnstone.

Do the games we won not count now JC, we did win more than we lost and were one game away from a historical season, but that is something that's been conveniently forgotten.

I'd rather be in the hunt for these trophies than not, and we have knocked on the door this season more than ever before.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It's not just losing but in the manner in which we lost inese so called big games, add in the losses at home to Livi, Ross C, Aberdeen, Motherwell and St Johnstone.

Can’t add them in just cos we lost - they’re not “big” games.

Aberdeen apart obviously. I think.

[bingo70]

The emoji indicates that I think the contradiction is funny. I don't think there's an absurd smiley.

Why would people want to keep a manager who is tactically naive, poor in front of the media, that can't win big games, and doesn't change games when it's obvious our game plan is failing? That doesn't make sense.

What else is there that we're paying hundreds of thousands of pounds for?

He’s built a decent team, for the most part that’s been enough to win games of football against 11 players who aren’t as good as the team he’s built. He’s also got the most out of certain players including Boyle, McGinn, Doig, Nisbet and Doidge.

That’s clearly not as easy as it looks.

Jack Ross has got a lot right this season even if there’s aspects I don’t like. I’m not convinced we will do well next season but that’s just guess work, of course he shouldn’t be sacked on the back of finishing 3rd.

[Allez Hibs]

OK, so trying to understand the reasons why Jack Ross should be given another season. Based on this season, what are the standout moments?

Player of the Year:

Young Player of the Year:

Performance of the season:

Most Important Win of the Season:

Decision of the season:

Signing of the season:

Defining moment of the season:

Goal of the Season:

Jack Ross outfit of the season:

[blackpoolhibs]

OK, so trying to understand the reasons why Jack Ross should be given another season. Based on this season, what are the standout moments?

Player of the Year:

Young Player of the Year:

Performance of the season:

Most Important Win of the Season:

Decision of the season:

Signing of the season:

Defining moment of the season:

Goal of the Season:

Jack Ross outfit of the season:

It makes no difference who's name i put against those questions, you want him out and will just tear into each answer like a banshee on coke.:rolleyes:

[Northernhibee]

OK, so trying to understand the reasons why Jack Ross should be given another season. Based on this season, what are the standout moments?

Player of the Year:

Young Player of the Year:

Performance of the season:

Most Important Win of the Season:

Decision of the season:

Signing of the season:

Defining moment of the season:

Goal of the Season:

Jack Ross outfit of the season:

Trying to understand the reasons why he should get another season?

Took over a relegation threatened team and had us finish in our best league placing in over a decade, signed a number of promising youngsters and has never failed to reach at least the semi finals of a domestic cup.

What is there not to understand?

[superfurryhibby]

The Thread Title is Ross Out !

It is and a poll would have been interesting.

Having had time to digest things, calm down, get irritated again, then get really pissed off etc, etc.

My take is unchanged. Ross has serious questions marks against him. I think he's probably just earned enough credit with the owner whereby that (sacking) won't happen immediately.

His overall performance is very mixed.

He signed a good player, Nisbet. Some who have contributed well enough without setting the heather on fire, in Macey, Irvine, Murphy and one who was unfortunate with injury, Cadden. That is countered by the Drey Wight, Kyle Magennis, Stephen McGinn signings, all of whom have been pretty dismal in their own ways.

He took the team to third place, laudable enough. However, we blew the chance to make it a glorious season by capitulating meekly to St Johnstone in a cup final and a cup semi final. We also lost to a dismal Hearts side in another semi final.

Anyway, the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what we think, it's all about what Ron Gordon wants. It's worth considering that he didn't appoint Ross either.

For all that we ran with a smaller squad and backroom team etc, most of us know that Gordon has put a lot of money into Hibs this season and I suspect Ross has had funds available to him that have been unknown since the McLeish era.

Does Gordon trust Ross enough to allow him to spend the money coming our way from the inevitable transfers that will take place this summer?

Will a man with Gordon's ambition for the club feel satisfied with the outcome from this season?

After Saturday's farce, Ross 's standing is low. I have my doubts whether or not he can come back from it. Third place or not, he's lost a lot of goodwill from the fans. A poor first quarter next season will be all it takes to see him out.

[Allez Hibs]

Can someone add a poll?

I actually think it would be a majority for him staying.

[Hibbyradge]

Because he’s signed some decent players and achieved an excellent position in the league. He deserves the chance to prove any doubters wrong, but as I said earlier that’s up to him to do so. You must recognise that there elements of your second sentence are valid points up for debate, even if you don’t necessarily agree with them ?

I have been debating them. I just don't understand why people are saying that very few folk want Ross emptied when I see so many people making those points.

You've been entirely reasonable in your contributions, but even you have said that you don't necessarily want him sacked, but you wouldn't be bothered if he left.

I sort of understand that, but I want a manager I can believe in. If I started to have all those doubts, I'd want him replaced.

It would be like being married but not caring if they left you. That's not a marriage I'd be staying in (although as I type that, it's dawning on me that loads of folk probably are in relationships just like that! :greengrin)

[J-C]

Can’t add them in just cos we lost - they’re not “big” games.

Aberdeen apart obviously. I think.

These other games were as an also, there was some pretty horrible performances in there.

[J-C]

Do the games we won not count now JC, we did win more than we lost and were one game away from a historical season, but that is something that's been conveniently forgotten.

I'd rather be in the hunt for these trophies than not, and we have knocked on the door this season more than ever before.

Don't get me wrong, I was delighted with 3rd but don't kid yourself on if you enjoyed 70% of what was on display, there was a good few abject performances in there this season. We have both struggled watching Newell this season and have the same opinion on him but he was undroppable.

[bingo70]

I have been debating them. I just don't understand why people are saying that very few folk want Ross emptied when I see so many people making those points.

You've been entirely reasonable in your contributions, but even you have said that you don't necessarily want him sacked, but you wouldn't be bothered if he left.

I sort of understand that, but I want a manager I can believe in. If I started to have all those doubts, I'd want him replaced.

It would be like being married but not caring if they left you. That's not a marriage I'd be staying in (although as I type that, it's dawning on me that loads of folk probably are in relationships just like that! :greengrin)

Before I leave my wife can you give me a list of potential replacements please? 😉

I think it’s perfectly feasible to have concerns about the manager and things you don’t necessarily like however have an acceptance that you could be wrong and not justify spending £100,000’s sacking someone with no guarantee of replacing him with better.

[Hibbyradge]

Before I leave my wife can you give me a list of potential replacements please? 😉

I think it’s perfectly feasible to have concerns about the manager and things you don’t necessarily like however have an acceptance that you could be wrong and not justify spending £100,000’s sacking someone with no guarantee of replacing him with better.

I'll let you have a list of potential, and realistic, wife replacements, if you give me a similar list of potential Hibs manager replacements. :wink:

[Since452]

Might have missed it but i've not seen one post with a suggested replacement for Ross were he to leave. I'd love to know who you would want instead who you feel could do a better job. Fire some names out there...

[Danderhall Hibs]

These other games were as an also, there was some pretty horrible performances in there.

There was but they don’t fit the criteria that’s been created.

[ahibby]

I think everyone has said 3rd was a very good achievement, it was the sudden collapse in some games for no obvious reason, continuing with the same tactics against a team that knew how to play against us and the stubbornness not to do something about it. Should he be sacked, no but after the weekend and his post match comments, there's a large section who don't trust him anymore, if he left tomorrow I wouldn't bat an eyelid, apart from the very odd game his brand of football is turgid and industrial.
I agree but some do not and dont show any respect towards those who share our opinion.

[bingo70]

Might have missed it but i've not seen one post with a suggested replacement for Ross were he to leave. I'd love to know who you would want instead who you feel could do a better job. Fire some names out there...

Surely it would depend who was interested.

I could go and find some ambitious names for you if you want but I assume they’d be dismissed as unrealistic, without knowing what we would offer or what they would want we wouldn’t know.

If they weren’t ambitious then we would just be listing names you would call *****.

When the time comes, I think we’ll just need to trust the scouting department at Hibs.

[blackpoolhibs]

Don't get me wrong, I was delighted with 3rd but don't kid yourself on if you enjoyed 70% of what was on display, there was a good few abject performances in there this season. We have both struggled watching Newell this season and have the same opinion on him but he was undroppable.

That's the thing though, are you really delighted with 3rd, as i get the impression most folk are not?

And thats the thing i really dont understand, i'm gutted we lost on Saturday, but 3rd place is not something to be sniffed at or downplayed.

I agree with you on Newell, and i hope we bring someone in who is considerably better than he currently is.

[calumhibee1]

Might have missed it but i've not seen one post with a suggested replacement for Ross were he to leave. I'd love to know who you would want instead who you feel could do a better job. Fire some names out there...

To be fair, I’m not sure it’s the job of the fans to do that.

I know I can say from my own point of view that I know managers in the top tier in Scotland and managers at the worlds biggest clubs. Only the managers in Scotland’s top tier would be attainable (outside the OF anyway) and most wouldn’t be suitable.

I’d expect Hibs to know all about managers from the English Leagues, Scottish lower leagues, assistants in England wanting to make the step up etc though so there may well be plenty decent options around.

[blackpoolhibs]

Before I leave my wife can you give me a list of potential replacements please? 😉

I think it’s perfectly feasible to have concerns about the manager and things you don’t necessarily like however have an acceptance that you could be wrong and not justify spending £100,000’s sacking someone with no guarantee of replacing him with better.

You can have my ex, if you feel miserable now..........

[Danderhall Hibs]

New manager has to have the potential to have a 50% or better win rate vs the old firm, unbeaten in derbies and win most other big games.

Fairly straightforward really - over to you scouting department. Maybe Brendan Rodgers?

[bingo70]

That's the thing though, are you really delighted with 3rd, as i get the impression most folk are not?

And thats the thing i really dont understand, i'm gutted we lost on Saturday, but 3rd place is not something to be sniffed at or downplayed.

I agree with you on Newell, and i hope we bring someone in who is considerably better than he currently is.

I think the problem with finishing 3rd is that there’s no tangible benefits to it for your average fan.

It’s a bit extra cash but we enter Europe at the same stage as we would have entered it if we finished 4th so 3rd isn’t that big a deal this season i don’t think. IMO people don’t really care that much about finishing 3rd when we’ve made a complete arse of 3 decent opportunities to get silverware.

[Stuart93]

I think the problem with finishing 3rd is that there’s no tangible benefits to it for your average fan.

It’s a bit extra cash but we enter Europe at the same stage as we would have entered it if we finished 4th so 3rd isn’t that big a deal this season i don’t think. IMO people don’t really care that much about finishing 3rd when we’ve made a complete arse of 3 decent opportunities to get silverware.

I’d have taken a Scottish cup win and mid table fwiw.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the problem with finishing 3rd is that there’s no tangible benefits to it for your average fan.

It’s a bit extra cash but we enter Europe at the same stage as we would have entered it if we finished 4th so 3rd isn’t that big a deal this season i don’t think. IMO people don’t really care that much about finishing 3rd when we’ve made a complete arse of 3 decent opportunities to get silverware.

Context Bingo, context. Remember you could have my ex. :greengrin

[bingo70]

Context Bingo, context. Remember you could have my ex. :greengrin

Can I go and have a few beers before getting back to you please? 😂

[blackpoolhibs]

I’d have taken a Scottish cup win and mid table fwiw.

But what about all those big games we'd lose if we were mid table, you would want the manager out before any cup final would come around? :faf:

[blackpoolhibs]

Can I go and have a few beers before getting back to you please? 😂

You will bloody need them.

[Since452]

I’d have taken a Scottish cup win and mid table fwiw.


We won the Scottish cup as a championship team five years ago and the league we were in barely crosses my mind. Would take silverware over league position however it really, really grinds my gears that we didn't win the cup as well as finishing 3rd. That's the level we should be aspiring to.

[bingo70]

We won the Scottish cup as a championship team five years ago and the league we were in barely crosses my mind. Would take silverware over league position however it really, really grinds my gears that we didn't win the cup as well as finishing 3rd. That's the level we should be aspiring to.

Not winning silverware isn’t that big a deal to me.

Our pathetic attempts on 3 out of 4 occasions is what’s really wound me up this time.

The fact it was entirely predictable is making it worse.

[Since452]

But what about all those big games we'd lose if we were mid table, you would want the manager out before any cup final would come around? :faf:

That is a very good point. You don't win many big games finishing mid table and im sorry but quite frankly im sick of finishing behind Aberdeen. I want us to be continually 3rd, in the latter stages of cups and in Europe...sounds a bit like this season actually.

[Stuart93]

[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;6579717]But what about all those big games we'd lose if we were mid table, you would want the manager out before any cup final would come around? :faf:[

FWIW it wasn’t even me who brought up JR’s big game record.

However the Scottish cup final is one of the biggest games/if not the biggest game of all. Stubbs finished 3rd in the championship and I remember wanting him gone before he won the cup. He left a legend purely for winning the cup and the same would apply to any other manager.

[weecounty hibby]

Might have missed it but i've not seen one post with a suggested replacement for Ross were he to leave. I'd love to know who you would want instead who you feel could do a better job. Fire some names out there...

You'll get folk telling you it's not their job to find a replacement. Yada yada yada. But it seems its their job to sack him. Said on the PM board that he should get more time to continue to build the team/squad. Changing manager every 12/18 months just means starting from scratch time and again. I've no issue with managers moving if there is dramatic under achievement but that's not the case with Ross. He has improved us and I think he will improve us again given time to build. Sadly though the bigot twins will both improve again and Saturdays opportunity may not come around again for a good while

[blackpoolhibs]

[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;6579717]But what about all those big games we'd lose if we were mid table, you would want the manager out before any cup final would come around? :faf:[

FWIW it wasn’t even me who brought up JR’s big game record.

However the Scottish cup final is one of the biggest games/if not the biggest game of all. Stubbs finished 3rd in the championship and I remember wanting him gone before he won the cup. He left a legend purely for winning the cup and the same would apply to any other manager.
Why would we keep a manager that's sheite in the league on the off chance the sheite team he's built might win a cup?

I'm not sure if you realise it, but you do not get the choice when the season starts, i'd like us to win both cups like St Johnstone did, and finish where they did, how often does it happen?

[Wilson]

I think the problem with finishing 3rd is that there’s no tangible benefits to it for your average fan.

It’s a bit extra cash but we enter Europe at the same stage as we would have entered it if we finished 4th so 3rd isn’t that big a deal this season i don’t think. IMO people don’t really care that much about finishing 3rd when we’ve made a complete arse of 3 decent opportunities to get silverware.

It's a Scottish thing. Domestic trophies mean less and less in other leagues around the world. For me, being third and pushing on in Europe is more important than a domestic trophy. I accept I'm probably in the minority.

In Spain they have their duopoly and then Atletico Madrid are there as the team that wont go away. I'd like us to be that team in Scotland. The nuisance to the duopoly that wont go away - building our brand and establishing ourselves in European competition.

This up and down the leagues nonsense and being accepting of mid table finishes holds us back.

[calumhibee1]

It's a Scottish thing. Domestic trophies mean less and less in other leagues around the world. For me, being third and pushing on in Europe is more important than a domestic trophy. I accept I'm probably in the minority.

In Spain they have their duopoly and then Atletico Madrid are there as the team that wont go away. I'd like us to be that team in Scotland. The nuisance to the duopoly that wont go away - building our brand and establishing ourselves in European competition.

This up and down the leagues nonsense and being accepting of mid table finishes holds us back.

To be fair, the problem with Europe in Scotland is that you’re instantly hamstrung by absolutely ridiculous amounts of qualifiers just to get into the tournament. If you finished 3rd and walked into a playoff seeded or straight into the groups then I’d be more inclined to get on board with your train of thought to an extent.

[Since452]

You'll get folk telling you it's not their job to find a replacement. Yada yada yada. But it seems its their job to sack him. Said on the PM board that he should get more time to continue to build the team/squad. Changing manager every 12/18 months just means starting from scratch time and again. I've no issue with managers moving if there is dramatic under achievement but that's not the case with Ross. He has improved us and I think he will improve us again given time to build. Sadly though the bigot twins will both improve again and Saturdays opportunity may not come around again for a good while

People wont want to leave themselves open to ridicule by suggesting a replacement but are all too willing to stick the boot in and call for him to be sacked. It's the easy option.

[jeffers]

I have been debating them. I just don't understand why people are saying that very few folk want Ross emptied when I see so many people making those points.

You've been entirely reasonable in your contributions, but even you have said that you don't necessarily want him sacked, but you wouldn't be bothered if he left.

I sort of understand that, but I want a manager I can believe in. If I started to have all those doubts, I'd want him replaced.

It would be like being married but not caring if they left you. That's not a marriage I'd be staying in (although as I type that, it's dawning on me that loads of folk probably are in relationships just like that! :greengrin)

I guess if there was a poll the majority would want him to stay. I think there is cause for concern over him though which is why the same points are being brought up.

Personally I am conflicted. I see the good, I also see the bad. I don’t know if he can turn things round, but as I say he deserves that chance. I was of a similar opinion after the LC semi, but he won me over after the league finish only to have me doubting him all over again after Saturday. Maybe if I got a genuine take on Saturday from him instead of what he did come out with I’d feel more confident.

The other consideration is if we do get rid of him, we could get someone even worse - we’ve done that before.

[J-C]

That's the thing though, are you really delighted with 3rd, as i get the impression most folk are not?

And thats the thing i really dont understand, i'm gutted we lost on Saturday, but 3rd place is not something to be sniffed at or downplayed.

I agree with you on Newell, and i hope we bring someone in who is considerably better than he currently is.

I think most are tbh, the football on show the majority of the time was boring but it was the cup losses that have scunnered a good few fans, not just the losses but the manner in them. Not having the Ugly Sisters in them won't happen every year.

[jeffers]

People wont want to leave themselves open to ridicule by suggesting a replacement but are all too willing to stick the boot in and call for him to be sacked. It's the easy option.

While it’s not quite the same, I wanted Calderwood, Fenlon, Butcher and Heckingbottom gone, should I only have done so if I could come up with their replacement ?

[blackpoolhibs]

While it’s not quite the same, I wanted Calderwood, Fenton, Butcher and Heckingbottom gone, should I only have done so if I could come up with their replacement ?

Aye but if they had us 3rd and just lost a cup final, I'd bet my last penny you would not have wanted any of them sacked. And the football was sheite under them all, plus they lost a lot of big games.

[Since452]

It's a Scottish thing. Domestic trophies mean less and less in other leagues around the world. For me, being third and pushing on in Europe is more important than a domestic trophy. I accept I'm probably in the minority.

In Spain they have their duopoly and then Atletico Madrid are there as the team that wont go away. I'd like us to be that team in Scotland. The nuisance to the duopoly that wont go away - building our brand and establishing ourselves in European competition.

This up and down the leagues nonsense and being accepting of mid table finishes holds us back.

Great post. We continually moan when Aberdeen beat us to signings. Maybe if we finished higher up the league and played in Europe and cup finals more often we wouldn't. This season is a start. Most people from outside of Scotland look at Aberdeen as being the 3rd biggest club as they are always in Europe. I want that to be us. It should be us with the infrastructure and fanbase we have. The club are growing off the park under Ron and he has said from the start he want's us to be the best of the rest then go from there. The Athletico example you used is a great one. I want us to be like them in our league. There is very exciting times ahead for this club and we are only moving in one direction.

[Smartie]

I am a Jack Ross fan. Some people aren't. One thing that we can all agree on is Saturdays pathetic attempt at a cup final was unacceptable. There needs to be a post-mortem internally, there needs to be accountability and there needs to be players that either don't pull our colours on again or bust an absolute gut to make up for it. Either or, no in-between. That is down to Jack Ross and he needs to earn his coin and make sure it happens. I'm willing to give him that opportunity.

I think this sums up where I am, although the first sentence - I'm probably somewhere between "I am a Jack Ross fan" and "I was a Jack Ross fan".

He's earned the benefit of the doubt but there is no hiding place for him next season.

I also believe he'll have his work cut out and will have to improve greatly just to stand still, but he deserves the chance.

[Since452]

While it’s not quite the same, I wanted Calderwood, Fenlon, Butcher and Heckingbottom gone, should I only have done so if I could come up with their replacement ?

They were all hopeless managers though and wouldn't have been difficult to improve on them. Where do we go from 3rd, a semi and a final in one season?

[jeffers]

Aye but if they had us 3rd and just lost a cup final, I'd bet my last penny you would not have wanted any of them sacked. And the football was sheite under them all, plus they lost a lot of big games.

If the circumstances were the exact same as they’ve been under Ross I’d be equally as conflicted, though I did actually enjoy some of the football under Fenlon :duck:

[jeffers]

They were all hopeless managers though and wouldn't have been difficult to improve on them. Where do we go from 3rd, a semi and a final in one season?

We managed to find a worse manager than Fenlon in Butcher though, so clearly it wasn’t that easy to improve on them. My point was we don’t know who is available, I never saw Mowbray or Stubbs coming for example. I just feel in general you can want a manager gone without having to come up with a replacement.

Finishing 3rd next season will be an ever better achievement IMO. You can only beat your opposition, but we’ve had favourable draws in the last three cups and failed to take advantage of them. I can take Hibs losing, I’ve watched them long enough, what I find hard to stomach is spineless performances like Saturday.

[blackpoolhibs]

If the circumstances were the exact same as they’ve been under Ross I’d be equally as conflicted, though I did actually enjoy some of the football under Fenlon :duck:

Aye the 2nd half against Falkirk at Hampden, the game i would have sacked him at half time. :greengrin

[Turkish Green]

While it’s not quite the same, I wanted Calderwood, Fenlon, Butcher and Heckingbottom gone, should I only have done so if I could come up with their replacement ?

Of them, Butcher had proven himself at ICT and everything was going nicely until the Relegation Derby when he managed to implode. Since Eck left in 2001 only Stubbs showed potential, and he had no previous management experience.

I do not rate Ross but he deserves another season to prove me wrong.

[hibIBZ]

I’d have taken a Scottish cup win and mid table fwiw.

So you would happily lose more league games to teams such as st Johnstone, Livingston or Dundee United, in favour of a cup win, which apart from being a good day and great to win something, would not make up for loss of earnings finishing mid table and all the extra lost games seems a strange one to me

[blackpoolhibs]

So you would happily lose more league games to teams such as st Johnstone, Livingston or Dundee United, in favour of a cup win, which apart from being a good day and great to win something, would not make up for loss of earnings finishing mid table and all the extra lost games seems a strange one to me

And if it were guaranteed, why would we bother turning up for these meaningless games that we were going to lose, when we could just turn up at Hamden every season to win the big one?

[The Modfather]

So you would happily lose more league games to teams such as st Johnstone, Livingston or Dundee United, in favour of a cup win, which apart from being a good day and great to win something, would not make up for loss of earnings finishing mid table and all the extra lost games seems a strange one to me

How many 3 points against the likes of St Johnstone, Livingston or Dundee Utd do you remember over the cup finals we have won?

[hibIBZ]

How many 3 points against the likes of St Johnstone, Livingston or Dundee Utd do you remember over the cup finals we have won?

The vast majority of games we will watch are league games, buying a season ticket lets you see them all, so what's the point of we are happily not going to bother with them to save ourselves for a cup game

[Mutu]

So you would happily lose more league games to teams such as st Johnstone, Livingston or Dundee United, in favour of a cup win, which apart from being a good day and great to win something, would not make up for loss of earnings finishing mid table and all the extra lost games seems a strange one to me

This is an insane take.

[hibIBZ]

This is an insane take.

How is it insane? A post said they would finish mid table in exchange for a cup win, that means losing more league games, if people are happy with that then so be it, but I'm not sure we would be

[The Modfather]

The vast majority of games we will watch are league games, buying a season ticket lets you see them all, so what's the point of we are happily not going to bother with them to save ourselves for a cup game

I’m not really sure what’s being debated here. The poster said they would take a lower league finish (mid table) if we had a cup win to show for it. I would as well. I thought it was just a hypothetical scenario, they weren’t advocating resting players in the league to solely focus on the cups.

[hibIBZ]

I’m not really sure what’s being debated here. The poster said they would take a lower league finish (mid table) if we had a cup win to show for it. I would as well. I thought it was just a hypothetical scenario, they weren’t advocating resting players in the league to solely focus on the cups.


I'm not saying rest players, what I was trying to say was that people would of been happy if we won cup games but lost more league games, not so much as a consequence, just that we lost them

[weecounty hibby]

I'm not saying rest players, what I was trying to say was that people would of been happy if we won cup games but lost more league games, not so much as a consequence, just that we lost them
No they wouldn't. The cup final is the last game of the season. If we had lost another 5 league games folk would have been clamouring for JR to be sacked long before he made it to a cup final

[Since452]

Anyway. Jack Ross in. He isn't going anywhere.

[Mutu]

How is it insane? A post said they would finish mid table in exchange for a cup win, that means losing more league games, if people are happy with that then so be it, but I'm not sure we would be

I get your logic, just find it baffling.

You're essentially taking an away win at the Tony Macaroni on a Wednesday night over an actual trophy. Can't wrap my head around that one I'm afraid.

Regardless, it's a hypothetical. It's hardly a choice we get to make. Some others have hit the nail on the head though - finishing 3rd doesn't really wash when played pish football all year and bottled it in big games including a cup final against a team with a smaller budget.

On balance I'd say that is a pretty disappointing season with no clear high points unless you have a bizarre fetish for away wins at Hamilton.

[Northernhibee]

I get your logic, just find it baffling.

You're essentially taking an away win at the Tony Macaroni on a Wednesday night over an actual trophy. Can't wrap my head around that one I'm afraid.

Regardless, it's a hypothetical. It's hardly a choice we get to make. Some others have hit the nail on the head though - finishing 3rd doesn't really wash when played pish football all year and bottled it in big games including a cup final against a team with a smaller budget.

On balance I'd say that is a pretty disappointing season with no clear high points unless you have a bizarre fetish for away wins at Hamilton.

We’ve played pish football all year?

[One Day Soon]

Anyway. Jack Ross in. He isn't going anywhere.


When you think about it, this is a post that both sides of the debate can agree upon.

[greenpaper55]

We’ve played pish football all year?

Exactly, wait till the fans are back and they have to put up with getting beaten by the likes of St Johnston and our managers answer to everything-Hoofball He is out of his depth at SPL level as he has shown, if he had the ability to change games and tactics he has failed to show it time after time. and i think the fans will be baying for him to go soon in the new season.

[Heisenberg]

Exactly, wait till the fans are back and they have to put up with getting beaten by the likes of St Johnston and our managers answer to everything-Hoofball He is out of his depth at SPL level as he has shown, if he had the ability to change games and tactics he has failed to show it time after time. and i think the fans will be baying for him to go soon in the new season.

He’s out of his depth at this level yet took us to 3rd in the league? Going to need that one explained to me.

[Danderhall Hibs]

He’s out of his depth at this level yet took us to 3rd in the league? Going to need that one explained to me.

:hilarious it’s mental eh?

[blackpoolhibs]

Exactly, wait till the fans are back and they have to put up with getting beaten by the likes of St Johnston and our managers answer to everything-Hoofball He is out of his depth at SPL level as he has shown, if he had the ability to change games and tactics he has failed to show it time after time. and i think the fans will be baying for him to go soon in the new season.
Out of his depth at SP level, when was the last time we were 2nd, i can only remember it under Turnbull?:confused:

[Northernhibee]

Exactly, wait till the fans are back and they have to put up with getting beaten by the likes of St Johnston and our managers answer to everything-Hoofball He is out of his depth at SPL level as he has shown, if he had the ability to change games and tactics he has failed to show it time after time. and i think the fans will be baying for him to go soon in the new season.

Are you sure you’re watching the right team? Hoofball?

Sure you’re not watching the rugby?

[flash]

Exactly, wait till the fans are back and they have to put up with getting beaten by the likes of St Johnston and our managers answer to everything-Hoofball He is out of his depth at SPL level as he has shown, if he had the ability to change games and tactics he has failed to show it time after time. and i think the fans will be baying for him to go soon in the new season.

In the stiffest competition possible congratulations on providing us with comfortably the most ridiculous post since the final.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.fourfourtwo.com/amp/features/26-maddest-managerial-sackings-ever-football

On the subject of whether sackings are justified or not, some of these made me laugh. Trevor Francis ‘....but it’s my birthday....’

[S4uzee]

He’s out of his depth at this level yet took us to 3rd in the league? Going to need that one explained to me.

The standard in the league this year has been poor. I mean Rangers went undefeated and Aberdeen scored about 2 goals in 15 games

[Danderhall Hibs]

The standard in the league this year has been poor. I mean Rangers went undefeated and Aberdeen scored about 2 goals in 15 games

Yeah an undefeated Rangers and I think I read Aberdeen’s best start to a season in 10 years.

[bingo70]

Is there comparables with us and Dundee United?

On paper they had a decent enough season, semi final of the Scottish cup and stayed up comfortably which was the managers target at the start of the season apparently.

It appears though a lot of the Dundee Utd fans just never took to him for his style of play and what he was like with the media. Looks like they’ve agreed they weren’t a good fit for each other and gone their separate ways.

I’m not suggesting that’ll happen at Hibs but it does just show that it’s not just Hibs fans who maybe don’t take to certain managers, despite them doing relatively well.

[MWHIBBIES]

Is there comparables with us and Dundee United?

On paper they had a decent enough season, semi final of the Scottish cup and stayed up comfortably which was the managers target at the start of the season apparently.

It appears though a lot of the Dundee Utd fans just never took to him for his style of play and what he was like with the media. Looks like they’ve agreed they weren’t a good fit for each other and gone their separate ways.

I’m not suggesting that’ll happen at Hibs but it does just show that it’s not just Hibs fans who maybe don’t take to certain managers, despite them doing relatively well.

Did you see United in the 4 games against us? They were absolutely awful. We aren't awful. Thats probably the reason

[The Modfather]

Did you see United in the 4 games against us? They were absolutely awful. We aren't awful. Thats probably the reason

St Johnstone fans are probably puzzled how we managed to finish 3rd.

[brianmc]

I've not read through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been covered:

Jack Ross undoubtedly benefitted from there being no fans at Easter Road. The mostly lacklustre football on show, coupled with the poor home points return, would've seen him AND the players under severe pressure from the stands. They would've been booed off the pitch on multiple occasions. Who knows how they'd have reacted under that pressure? But going by how they handled Hampden last week I'm going to guess it wouldn't have ended well.

[Hibbyradge]

I've not read through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been covered:

Jack Ross undoubtedly benefitted from there being no fans at Easter Road. The mostly lacklustre football on show, coupled with the poor home points return, would've seen him AND the players under severe pressure from the stands. They would've been booed off the pitch on multiple occasions. Who knows how they'd have reacted under that pressure? But going by how they handled Hampden last week I'm going to guess it wouldn't have ended well.

Maybe, maybe not.

The team may just as likely performed better with the fans there.

[bingo70]

Did you see United in the 4 games against us? They were absolutely awful. We aren't awful. Thats probably the reason

We were sometimes 😂

Anyway, my point wasn’t meant as a criticism of Ross although I’ve done plenty of that over the last few days. More just an observation that we’re not the only club that’s got unreasonable fans demanding more than what would be described as a decent season on paper. Very much include myself in that unreasonable group btw.

I’ve seen style of play mentioned at higher levels of football when Mourinho was being discussed and why he wasn’t a success at Spurs but maybe it’s relevant at this level too now. I think football fans in general are starting to look past the idea that it’s all about the results. It’s an entertainment industry and with top level football being on our tv screens 7 days a week are fans becoming more demanding of their football clubs? Scraping 1-0 wins in order to achieve a relatively low level of success maybe isn’t enough to get the juices flowing for supporters any more?

I should point out, this really isn’t meant as a criticism. It’s taken a bit longer than normal but I’m over the weekends game now, **** happens but there’s more important things to get all worked up about.

[Since452]

The standard in the league this year has been poor. I mean Rangers went undefeated and Aberdeen scored about 2 goals in 15 games

St Johnstone knocked that unbeaten Rangers side out the Scottish Cup at Ibrox a few days after drawing with then in the league for a bit of perspective.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

So you would happily lose more league games to teams such as st Johnstone, Livingston or Dundee United, in favour of a cup win, which apart from being a good day and great to win something, would not make up for loss of earnings finishing mid table and all the extra lost games seems a strange one to me

Following your logic, third place in the second tier (15th place overall) wasn't made up for by the cup win in 2016.

[Callum_62]

No they wouldn't. The cup final is the last game of the season. If we had lost another 5 league games folk would have been clamouring for JR to be sacked long before he made it to a cup finalMind when we lost 2 on the bounce to Ross County and Livi (I think)
[emoji23][emoji23]

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[Just_Jimmy]

He blew a chance. Collins blew it against Dunfermline over two games, Stubbs blew it on the play off and the league cup, but they got other chances that they took.

Ross will, imho, have other chances if we give him time. We’re not at the later stages of Cup competitions by accident, it’s where we want to be and where the squad is being built to be.I happen to largely agree. I'm still annoyed but I'm long enough in the tooth to see when we've got something decent. I'm not sold on him and haven't been since he came in but that said, he's done well enough. he badly needs to take the next step now as he won't survive a winnable semi or final defeat again. I wouldn't be gutted if he got another job but I wouldn't sack him.

I predict he'll be away mid season coming probably after a derby or such like.

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[Since452]

Ross's win percentage speaks for itself. Very impressive actually. Not buying the weak league nonsense. We finished 3rd on merit.

There is no pleasing people in this day and age. There would be the same clamour to get our next manager out after a couple of bad defeats and for a club like us that is always inevitable. We aren't Man City.

[Jdawg]

Ross's win percentage speaks for itself. Very impressive actually. Not buying the weak league nonsense. We finished 3rd on merit.

There is no pleasing people in this day and age. There would be the same clamour to get our next manager out after a couple of bad defeats and for a club like us that is always inevitable. We aren't Man City.

Pretty much the same teams and the same players as last season. Not weaker, exactly the same of thereabouts.

[Key West]

Ridiculous to promote a sacking. Jack Ross needs time like everybody else to realise his potential and that’s what it is at the moment.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Ross's win percentage speaks for itself. Very impressive actually. Not buying the weak league nonsense. We finished 3rd on merit.

There is no pleasing people in this day and age. There would be the same clamour to get our next manager out after a couple of bad defeats and for a club like us that is always inevitable. We aren't Man City.

And thank **** for that :greengrin

[MrRobot]

I know he is getting a lot of stick for not being able to fire up the players and we have no way of knowing if that’s true or not but **** me how are the players not already fired up just from being in the final alone and a decent chance at Europe?

[greenpaper55]

Watching one of the last games at ER before the lock down was awful, i spent more time on my phone checking other results rather than watch what was happening on the pitch.Just think back to the games at ER and most were eye bleeding stuff, only the lack of fans saved him from dogs abuse. True the league position is good but fans don't go to football to look at league tables but never mind , after a few games when the fans are back will sort this out for sure.

[bingo70]

I know he is getting a lot of stick for not being able to fire up the players and we have no way of knowing if that’s true or not but **** me how are the players not already fired up just from being in the final alone and a decent chance at Europe?

I just don’t think it works like that.

No player goes out there trying to play badly. They’ll all have felt motivated for the game, they just never got that extra 10% that the St Johnstone manager got out of the players. (Apologies to all concerned for using that horrible cliche, can’t think of any other way to put it though)

I can’t think of many matches this season we really raised our game. I think we’ve played at a consistently decent level but I can’t think of too many we’ve really stepped it up. Maybe Rangers at home when we drew with them but I missed that game.

[jeffers]

I know he is getting a lot of stick for not being able to fire up the players and we have no way of knowing if that’s true or not but **** me how are the players not already fired up just from being in the final alone and a decent chance at Europe?

I totally agree with that, I still can’t understand it. However he signed half of that team, gave a debut this season to one, and extended the contract of another. He keeps saying they are a great group, but appears when the going gets tough they are unable to step up.

[Since452]

Said on another thread that there were St Johnstone players in tears after the game. I don't think we'd have been the same, maybe i'm wrong. I didn't see any of our players hurting and seeing Martin Boyle laughing and joking with a St Johnstone player didn't help. Still scunnered by Saturday and it was a very disappointing way to end a very good season. Over to Jack Ross and the players now to show us that they do care.

[calumhibee1]

Said on another thread that there were St Johnstone players in tears after the game. I don't think we'd have been the same, maybe i'm wrong. I didn't see any of our players hurting and seeing Martin Boyle laughing and joking with a St Johnstone player didn't help. Still scunnered by Saturday and it was a very disappointing way to end a very good season. Over to Jack Ross and the players now to show us that they do care.

:agree:

I said it on the Daz v Porto thread but this squad of players just come across very dull and robotic to me. Very little in the way of passion and if the chips are down I can’t say I fancy them much to turn it around. Who’s taking the bull by the horns in this team? In 2016 we had SDG, McGregor, McGinn, Henderson, Bartley, Cummings who all looked capable of stepping up and dragging the team through games. When we’re winning this team are fine, but I don’t see many of them stepping up and dragging us through when the chips are down. The manager included.

The same probably can’t be said of the St Johnstone squad in terms of mentality and personality.

[MrRobot]

I just don’t think it works like that.

No player goes out there trying to play badly. They’ll all have felt motivated for the game, they just never got that extra 10% that the St Johnstone manager got out of the players. (Apologies to all concerned for using that horrible cliche, can’t think of any other way to put it though)

I can’t think of many matches this season we really raised our game. I think we’ve played at a consistently decent level but I can’t think of too many we’ve really stepped it up. Maybe Rangers at home when we drew with them but I missed that game.

i get they don’t go out there looking to do badly but do you really need the manager giving inspirational talks to get the bare minimum out of you? the players should be motivated enough themselves to want to do well but there was very little fight from them, never mind just missing an extra 10%. at some point that needs to come down to the players themselves and their attitude.

i do feel Ross went with the wrong team though and we lacked somebody on the pitch that is a complete leader, which is why McGregor should have started.

[mcfly]

What’s done is done - we lost at hampden again.

However if jack Ross wants to get the fans fully inside he needs to be bold and look at all those players who let us down so badly at hampden this season and I mean the 3 lost games.

He needs to decide who has the bottle to play in these games if they don’t them they must be shown the door.

We need strong willed winners on the pitch not players who can’t handle pressure.

[Potty78]

Ross needs a good start to next season or some of the support may become more restless. Bad start could mean the end

[Callum_62]

Watching one of the last games at ER before the lock down was awful, i spent more time on my phone checking other results rather than watch what was happening on the pitch.Just think back to the games at ER and most were eye bleeding stuff, only the lack of fans saved him from dogs abuse. True the league position is good but fans don't go to football to look at league tables but never mind , after a few games when the fans are back will sort this out for sure.Fans don't go to games to look at league tables?

Surely If we are high up the league we are winning more often than not - isn't that what fans want? A winning team?

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[et_hibby]

I just don’t think it works like that.

No player goes out there trying to play badly. They’ll all have felt motivated for the game, they just never got that extra 10% that the St Johnstone manager got out of the players. (Apologies to all concerned for using that horrible cliche, can’t think of any other way to put it though)

I can’t think of many matches this season we really raised our game. I think we’ve played at a consistently decent level but I can’t think of too many we’ve really stepped it up. Maybe Rangers at home when we drew with them but I missed that game.


Agree with your points. The lingering gripe from me is why he didn't gamble more after the penalty save. Is is too simplistic to suggest Porteous/someone else could have been pushed up front for the last 20 mins, particularly given the amount of long balls we tried shelling in to the penalty box? Or some sort of other change to the shape to at least very the approach in those final minutes and give St Johnstone something new to deal with? Doidge/Nisbet remained pretty isolated throughout the closing stages and I'm disappointed nothing seemed to be done to go for broke.

[Hermit Crab]

Ross needs a good start to next season or some of the support may become more restless. Bad start could mean the end


Qualifying for the group stages of the Europa conference league is the minimum requirement for me in the early season. Pressure mounts if we get tucked away by teams we've never heard of.

[calumhibee1]

Qualifying for the group stages of the Europa conference league is the minimum requirement for me in the early season. Pressure mounts if we get tucked away by teams we've never heard of.

I’ve genuinely no idea what the standard of this tournament will be in terms of qualifiers. Is it likely to be much of a muchness in terms of difficulty to qualify with the Europa? Or will we manage to miss the better Scandinavian teams etc. That we always seem to get?

[blackpoolhibs]

Qualifying for the group stages of the Europa conference league is the minimum requirement for me in the early season. Pressure mounts if we get tucked away by teams we've never heard of.

Absolutely unbelievable, you have no idea who we play yet. :faf:

[MWHIBBIES]

Qualifying for the group stages of the Europa conference league is the minimum requirement for me in the early season. Pressure mounts if we get tucked away by teams we've never heard of.

Fantasy stuff

[Hermit Crab]

Absolutely unbelievable, you have no idea who we play yet. :faf:


Chances are it will be a team worse than the likes of Birkikara with a few big names thrown in. This competition was designed to give small clubs a chance at playing in Europa to generate a bit of cash. Unless we're extremely unlucky with the draw we should be qualifying for the group stages.

[Hermit Crab]

Fantasy stuff


Is it? We might as well just withdraw from the competition now then...

[Hermit Crab]

I’ve genuinely no idea what the standard of this tournament will be in terms of qualifiers. Is it likely to be much of a muchness in terms of difficulty to qualify with the Europa? Or will we manage to miss the better Scandinavian teams etc. That we always seem to get?


You just have to look at the teams in it. Most of them are of a poor standard from places you've never head of with a scattering of bigger names who've had a poorer than usual domestic season.

[hibsbollah]

You just have to look at the teams in it. Most of them are of a poor standard from places you've never head of with a scattering of bigger names who've had a poorer than usual domestic season.

What if it’s Copenhagen? Or Feyenoord? Or AEK Athens?

[CropleyWasGod]

You just have to look at the teams in it. Most of them are of a poor standard from places you've never head of with a scattering of bigger names who've had a poorer than usual domestic season.

If they're from places you've never heard of, how do you know they're poor?

[blackpoolhibs]

Chances are it will be a team worse than the likes of Birkikara with a few big names thrown in. This competition was designed to give small clubs a chance at playing in Europa to generate a bit of cash. Unless we're extremely unlucky with the draw we should be qualifying for the group stages.

Again, Absolutely unbelievable, you have no idea who we play yet. :faf:

[hibsbollah]

Bad start could mean the end

Good start could mean the beginning.

I sense a circular argument that’s not really teaching anybody anything.

[Danderhall Hibs]

You just have to look at the teams in it. Most of them are of a poor standard from places you've never head of with a scattering of bigger names who've had a poorer than usual domestic season.

So not many big games then? Lucky they won’t count.

[MWHIBBIES]

Is it? We might as well just withdraw from the competition now then...

No, but crazy expectations before a draw has been made is utterly pointless.

Although with quality like Doidge in the side, we've got a shot.

[Hermit Crab]

No, but crazy expectations before a draw has been made is utterly pointless.

Although with quality like Doidge in the side, we've got a shot.


Ahh, champagne Doidge. You'd never have known he was playing on Saturday...

[Hermit Crab]

No, but crazy expectations before a draw has been made is utterly pointless.

Although with quality like Doidge in the side, we've got a shot.


How is it crazy to expect to qualify for group stages? Would you rather I said we will get horsed 8-0 on agg by some team from San Marino?

[Danderhall Hibs]

How is it crazy to expect to qualify for group stages? Would you rather I said we will get horsed 8-0 on agg by some team from San Marino?

HC you wait to see what the opposition are like then set the target. It’s been made clear throughout this thread.

[Potty78]

Good start could mean the beginning.

I sense a circular argument that’s not really teaching anybody anything.

No argument from me, I obviously hope we get a great start👍

[MWHIBBIES]

Ahh, champagne Doidge. You'd never have known he was playing on Saturday...Wouldn't have been a saturday without him


How is it crazy to expect to qualify for group stages? Would you rather I said we will get horsed 8-0 on agg by some team from San Marino?

When have Hibs ever lost to a team from San Marino?

I think realistic expectations are better.

Be prepared early for the games, give it a right good shot. Beat the sides we should beat.

[Potty78]

We enter the Europa qualifying round 2 and seeded so we should get past that, we still need to win another 2 or 3 rounds for group stages. We have no fall back for this conference league but saints do. So to say reaching group stages is minimum is crazy in my opinion. We would need the luck of the draw🤷*♂️

[BoomtownHibees]

We enter the Europa qualifying round 2 and seeded so we should get past that, we still need to win another 2 or 3 rounds for group stages. We have no fall back for this conference league but saints do. So to say reaching group stages is minimum is crazy in my opinion. We would need the luck of the draw🤷*♂️

We don’t enter the Europa

[Potty78]

We don’t enter the Europa

Thanks, just read all the info. Hopefully get 3 favourably ties then👍🤦*♂️

[Hermit Crab]

We enter the Europa qualifying round 2 and seeded so we should get past that, we still need to win another 2 or 3 rounds for group stages. We have no fall back for this conference league but saints do. So to say reaching group stages is minimum is crazy in my opinion. We would need the luck of the draw��*♂️


We are not in the Europa league, we are in its poorer imitation known as the Europa conference league or Europa league 2. Not winning the cup cost us our place in the Europa league proper and upwards of £3m in revenue at the same time.

[Peevemor]

We are not in the Europa league, we are in its poorer imitation known as the Europa conference league or Europa league 2. Not winning the cup cost us our place in the Europa league proper and upwards of £3m in revenue at the same time.It cost us our chance of a place in the Europa league. There's a huge difference.

[blackpoolhibs]

It cost us our chance of a place in the Europa league. There's a huge difference.

Would be funny if St Johnstone managed to make the group stages, can you imagine this place. :greengrin

[Peevemor]

Would be funny if St Johnstone managed to make the group stages, can you imagine this place. :greengrinCrikey!

[Potty78]

We are not in the Europa league, we are in its poorer imitation known as the Europa conference league or Europa league 2. Not winning the cup cost us our place in the Europa league proper and upwards of £3m in revenue at the same time.

Win three games then we get the 3million revenue then👍

[MWHIBBIES]

We are not in the Europa league, we are in its poorer imitation known as the Europa conference league or Europa league 2. Not winning the cup cost us our place in the Europa league proper and upwards of £3m in revenue at the same time.

Winning the cup was never giving a Europa league proper place. It was giving a qualifying place, and if you lost, you got into the conference league groups.

It has changed now anyway, so it isn't a given unless other results go a certain way.

[Andy74]

Ahh, champagne Doidge. You'd never have known he was playing on Saturday...

Funny that you were nowhere to be seen for the 4 months or so before Saturday.

[MWHIBBIES]

Funny that you were nowhere to be seen for the 4 months or so before Saturday.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. I don't doubt the guy is a Hibby, but he is literally awol when the players he continuously ****s on are playing well.

[Hermit Crab]

Funny that you were nowhere to be seen for the 4 months or so before Saturday.


Just dip in and out these days. More to life than arguing with happy clappers.

[Jim44]

Would be funny if St Johnstone managed to make the group stages, can you imagine this place. :greengrin

With all due respect to the team who have us in their pocket, I don’t think they have the remotest chance of progressing in Europe. More shame to us. :greengrin

[Andy74]

Just dip in and out these days. More to life than arguing with happy clappers.

I’d describe it more as totally out whilst Doidge was scoring every week.

You’re now back and with a nice new nickname for Doidge too.

It’s an interesting way to live your life, but there you are.

[scoopyboy]

Just dip in and out these days. More to life than arguing with happy clappers.

In all your days on here have you ever posted anything positive about Hibs or anybody?

Genuine question.

[Potty78]

Just dip in and out these days. More to life than arguing with happy clappers.

Happy clappers, u never seen me at full time and when the players went to collect there medals. I'm far from a happy clapper but 3rd was our aim and we got it. Cups obviously let us down and it's a missed opportunity but its disrespectful to say we should have won, saints are a decent side. Just wish Ross had another plan other than 442....

[Allez Hibs]

Although with quality like Doidge in the side, we've got a shot.

Naughty 😂 😂 😂

[Allez Hibs]

I’d describe it more as totally out whilst Doidge was scoring every week.

You’re now back and with a nice new nickname for Doidge too.

It’s an interesting way to live your life, but there you are.

Doidge was popping Champagne on Saturday night though.

[Allez Hibs]

Did anyone else think it was a stroke of genius bringing Lewy on at 1-0 down to change the game?

Wonder if JR was wishing he could have put Scott Allan on? 🤔

[Peevemor]

And we're off...

[Blaster]

Did anyone else think it was a stroke of genius bringing Lewy on at 1-0 down to change the game?

Wonder if JR was wishing he could have put Scott Allan on? 🤔

At left back? Doubt it

[neil7908]

HC you wait to see what the opposition are like then set the target. It’s been made clear throughout this thread.

Can we apply the logic to the cups then please? Keep hearing that a semi final and final is a great achievement and we'd have taken that at the start of the season, and who we played to get there doesn't matter. Let's apply the same for Europe and set targets now.

[calumhibee1]

Interesting to hear OGS say that Man Utd have not had a successful season this season.

Acknowledged the improvement in league position and actually mentioned “fine margins” in terms of losing the final (something which I think can definitely be applied to their final) but says that despite their improvement in the league, losing the final means that it wasn’t a successful season.

[Hibrandenburg]

Interesting to hear OGS say that Man Utd have not had a successful season this season.

Acknowledged the improvement in league position and actually mentioned “fine margins” in terms of losing the final (something which I think can definitely be applied to their final) but says that despite their improvement in the league, losing the final means that it wasn’t a successful season.

I think the expectations of Hibs and Man Utd might be ever so slightly different.

[calumhibee1]

I think the expectations of Hibs and Man Utd might be ever so slightly different.

I think the expectations of every club in world football will always be different. Doesn’t make it any less interesting to see the reaction of a club who have been on a similar trajectory to us this season to losing a cup final and semi final. Especially when people think that fans questioning how good this season has actually been for us is ludicrous.

[Iain G]

Ahh, champagne Doidge. You'd never have known he was playing on Saturday...

Felt sorry for him as our defence lumped endless long balls to him and he had two St Johnstone centre backs to deal with every time

[CJHibby]

I don't advocate sacking Jack Ross. I believe in consistency be it the team or the management but a cat only has so many lives. I hope for his and our sake lessons are learned and progress is made/continued..: flag:

[Hibrandenburg]

I think the expectations of every club in world football will always be different. Doesn’t make it any less interesting to see the reaction of a club who have been on a similar trajectory to us this season to losing a cup final and semi final. Especially when people think that fans questioning how good this season has actually been for us is ludicrous.

Sorry but that's just mental. Comparing the expectations of a world football brand name like Manchester Utd who can spend more than 10 times our whole budget on 1 player to Hibs is Gaga. It does however give me a better idea of the mindset of those calling for Ross to get the boot.

[calumhibee1]

Sorry but that's just mental. Comparing the expectations of a world football brand name like Manchester Utd who can spend more than 10 times our whole budget on 1 player to Hibs is Gaga. It does however give me a better idea of the mindset of those calling for Ross to get the boot.

And we’re comparing their expectations in competitions well above our level. We’re not comparing what their expectations would have been had they played St Johnstone in the LC semi and SC final.

They’ve had a season that has been in a lot of ways similar to ours, just with every part of it being done at a higher level:

Improvement in the league to a position that was as good as they could realistically get
Lost cup semi final
Lost cup final

There’s plenty similarities and the principles of a successful season remain the same regardless of the fact they have a bigger budget. They don’t compete in the same competitions we do.

On top of that i’ve not called for him to get the boot after the final so that is utter nonsense really.

[jeffers]

Sorry but that's just mental. Comparing the expectations of a world football brand name like Manchester Utd who can spend more than 10 times our whole budget on 1 player to Hibs is Gaga. It does however give me a better idea of the mindset of those calling for Ross to get the boot.

The scale might be different but I see similarities in them losing a final to a smaller team who finished in a lower league position (albeit in a different country) and that team having a smaller budget than them. A final they expected to win, but didn’t really turn up for.

[matty_f]

Sorry but that's just mental. Comparing the expectations of a world football brand name like Manchester Utd who can spend more than 10 times our whole budget on 1 player to Hibs is Gaga. It does however give me a better idea of the mindset of those calling for Ross to get the boot.


I agree re making a false comparison.

Man United being in the Europa League, never mind losing the final, is deemed a failure for them. They’re meant to be a Champions League club (Super League, even). Their fans have been brought up on almost unrivalled success.

Their manager played for years at the club when they only knew winning and any season that didn’t bring a title was considered a failure.

He’s on record as saying he’s happy with the progress they’re making while recognising they’re not where they want to be (and as United manager, he can’t say anything else, really).

You could point to the similarity between the clubs as in it’s immediately after losing a cup final, however that was a cup that Man U didn’t want to be in in the first place, and were very heavy favourites for.

[Hibrandenburg]

I agree re making a false comparison.

Man United being in the Europa League, never mind losing the final, is deemed a failure for them. They’re meant to be a Champions League club (Super League, even). Their fans have been brought up on almost unrivalled success.

Their manager played for years at the club when they only knew winning and any season that didn’t bring a title was considered a failure.

He’s on record as saying he’s happy with the progress they’re making while recognising they’re not where they want to be (and as United manager, he can’t say anything else, really).

You could point to the similarity between the clubs as in it’s immediately after losing a cup final, however that was a cup that Man U didn’t want to be in in the first place, and were very heavy favourites for.

:agree: I can't argue with the kind of logic that compares Man Utd losing a cup final and Hibs doing the same, not because that logic is right, but rather because it's so out of touch of reality that logic plays no role in the argumentation. I'm out, it's too Jamboesque for me.

[calumhibee1]

I agree re making a false comparison.

Man United being in the Europa League, never mind losing the final, is deemed a failure for them. They’re meant to be a Champions League club (Super League, even). Their fans have been brought up on almost unrivalled success.

Their manager played for years at the club when they only knew winning and any season that didn’t bring a title was considered a failure.

He’s on record as saying he’s happy with the progress they’re making while recognising they’re not where they want to be (and as United manager, he can’t say anything else, really).

You could point to the similarity between the clubs as in it’s immediately after losing a cup final, however that was a cup that Man U didn’t want to be in in the first place, and were very heavy favourites for.

I’m not quite sure why OGS winning trophies as a player in a totally different era has any bearing on what constitutes success now. Man Utd haven’t been much use for years. They regularly compete in the Europa League. That’s been about there level most of the time in recent history.

[Peevemor]

I agree re making a false comparison.

Man United being in the Europa League, never mind losing the final, is deemed a failure for them. They’re meant to be a Champions League club (Super League, even). Their fans have been brought up on almost unrivalled success.

Their manager played for years at the club when they only knew winning and any season that didn’t bring a title was considered a failure.

He’s on record as saying he’s happy with the progress they’re making while recognising they’re not where they want to be (and as United manager, he can’t say anything else, really).

You could point to the similarity between the clubs as in it’s immediately after losing a cup final, however that was a cup that Man U didn’t want to be in in the first place, and were very heavy favourites for.

The moment where a club has spending power on a par if not higher than their competitors (domestic & European) then there can be no comparison with Hibs. There are too many differences, in terms of both mindset and practicalities.

[calumhibee1]

The moment where a club has spending power on a par if not higher than their competitors (domestic & European) then there can be no comparison with Hibs. There are too many differences, in terms of both mindset and practicalities.

In other words, nothing in football can ever be used as a comparison because no two situations will ever be exactly the same.

[matty_f]

I’m not quite sure why OGS winning trophies as a player in a totally different era has any bearing on what constitutes success now. Man Utd haven’t been much use for years. They regularly compete in the Europa League. That’s been about there level most of the time in recent history.

You can’t see how his experience of being at the club for however many years doesn’t shape his understanding of what’s expected by the club and the fans?

Probably no point in taking this one further then.

[Peevemor]

In other words, nothing in football can ever be used as a comparison because no two situations will ever be exactly the same.

I never said anything like that.

In a domestic sense you could possibly compare Man Utd to one of the OF, but certainly not Hibs.

[Allez Hibs]

Sorry but that's just mental. Comparing the expectations of a world football brand name like Manchester Utd who can spend more than 10 times our whole budget on 1 player to Hibs is Gaga. It does however give me a better idea of the mindset of those calling for Ross to get the boot.

You are missing his point. It's all relative.

They finished 2nd in a 20 team league and lost a winnable European Final. We finished 3rd in a 12 team league and we all know the story about the cups but for some reason we compare this season to our historical performance to determine it as a great season?

We should not be looking at historical performance as an indicator given the size of our club within the Scottish game.

[calumhibee1]

I never said anything like that.

In a domestic sense you could possibly compare Man Utd to one of the OF, but certainly not Hibs.

Man Utd aren’t in that top tier of English clubs anymore imo. They don’t even threaten to win the league. They never threaten to win the Champions League like others do.

I’d say they’re more in the second tier of clubs who are fighting for the other places. A bit like us.

[blackpoolhibs]

You are missing his point. It's all relative.

They finished 2nd in a 20 team league and lost a winnable European Final. We finished 3rd in a 12 team league and we all know the story about the cups but for some reason we compare this season to our historical performance to determine it as a great season?

We should not be looking at historical performance as an indicator given the size of our club within the Scottish game.

Close the thread now, thats all i've read since Saturday, we always let us down,(apart from when we dont) we even have a thread on this very page showing our record in cups.

[calumhibee1]

You can’t see how his experience of being at the club for however many years doesn’t shape his understanding of what’s expected by the club and the fans?

Probably no point in taking this one further then.

I can’t see why it’s relevant to a club that has changed dramatically since he stopped playing.

I can only assume you think Eddie Turnbull was a failure as a manager at Hibs since he won the league three times as a player at Hibs a similar length of time previously and then never went on to do the same?

[AlanGF69]

I think the blame is much more down to the players being awful that Jack's tactics.

[blackpoolhibs]

Man Utd aren’t in that top tier of English clubs anymore. They don’t even threaten to win the league.

I’d say there more in the second tier of clubs who are fighting for the other places. A bit like us.

Except our 3rd place gets us nowhere near the champions league and our expectations are Europa leeague or now the conference league, Man Utd Chelsea Liverpool Spurs and Arsenal all want Champions league, and the Europa league is a hindrance.

[superfurryhibby]

I think the blame is much more down to the players being awful that Jack's tactics.


Not really.

Tactics were a much more significant factor than the quality of the players on the field, otherwise Hibs wouldn't have finished 18 points ahead of St Johnstone, with a goal difference swing of 20 odd between them.

[Peevemor]

Man Utd aren’t in that top tier of English clubs anymore. They don’t even threaten to win the league.

I’d say there more in the second tier of clubs who are fighting for the other places. A bit like us.

I think you're deliberately missing the point to avoid admitting that the comparison just doesn't work.

I'm not going to waste my time (re)stating the obvious.

[calumhibee1]

Except our 3rd place gets us nowhere near the champions league and our expectations are Europa leeague or now the conference league, Man Utd Chelsea Liverpool Spurs and Arsenal all want Champions league, and the Europa league is a hindrance.

If all the Europa League was to Man Utd was a hindrance then why would not winning it be the difference between whether their season was successful or not?

That doesn’t sound like a hindrance to me, that sounds like a fairly big deal if it has that much impact on how you view your season.

As I said, it’s all relative, I’ve never suggested 3rd place gets us Champions League. They’re at a totally different level, but they’ve had a very similar season to us at the different level they’re playing at.

[calumhibee1]

I think you're deliberately missing the point to avoid admitting that the comparison just doesn't work.

I'm not going to waste my time (re)stating the obvious.

Not at all.

You’re comparing them to the only two teams that will ever win our league. I’m not sure how that comparison is valid when they don’t even threaten to win theirs.

Their expectations absolutely will not have been to win the EPL this season I don’t think. So in that regard their league season couldn’t have been any better, a bit like ours.

[matty_f]

I can’t see why it’s relevant to a club that has changed dramatically since he stopped playing.

I can only assume you think Eddie Turnbull was a failure as a manager at Hibs since he won the league three times as a player at Hibs a similar length of time previously and then never went on to do the same?

If that’s your assumption then again, I’m sorry that i don’t think I’ve been clear enough in the point I’m making, because the assumption is absurd.

I’ll leave it there.

[calumhibee1]

If that’s your assumption then again, I’m sorry that i don’t think I’ve been clear enough in the point I’m making, because the assumption is absurd.

I’ll leave it there.

If you can’t explain it further then fair enough.

What Man Utd as a club and fans expected when he played compared to now is night and day.

[Allez Hibs]

I think the blame is much more down to the players being awful that Jack's tactics.

We have lost 4 times in a row to them now and we clawed it back to get a 2-2 draw in the Winter.

Tactics were the key in this game given how we have performed against them this season.

[blackpoolhibs]

If all the Europa League was to Man Utd was a hindrance then why would not winning it be the difference between whether their season was successful or not?

Because it's not a successful season for Man Utd. :confused: And if they had been knocked out in the quarters it still would not be a success.

Ask any Utd fan if they had won last night, would they class the season a success, if you think they would say yes then you are seriously dafter than i already think.

United only judge success in winning things, and we dont, it is simple really.

Even if they had won last night, it still wouldnt have been a good season, a good season is them winning the league or the Champions league, they dont give a toss about last night trophy, they dont even want to play in that competition, the League cup and FA cup are the same.

[Allez Hibs]

Close the thread now, thats all i've read since Saturday, we always let us down,(apart from when we dont) we even have a thread on this very page showing our record in cups.

We are at Hampden almost every year now though (for the last 9 years). My point is that I think our expectations have changed and we can't look back 40 years and how we were doing. We have become bigger as a club within the context of it and our demands are now greater.

[calumhibee1]

Because it's not a successful season for Man Utd. :confused: And if they had been knocked out in the quarters it still would not be a success.

Ask any Utd fan if they had won last night, would they class the season a success, if you think they would say yes then you are seriously dafter than i already think.

United only judge success in winning things, and we dont, it is simple really.

Even if they had won last night, it still wouldnt have been a good season, a good season is them winning the league or the Champions league, they dont give a toss about last night trophy, they dont even want to play in that competition, the League cup and FA cup are the same.

OGS would have thought it was a successful season had they won. Again, if all the competition is is a hindrance then I’m not quite sure how it has such a massive impact on how their season is viewed. A competition that’s nothing but a hindrance doesn’t make an unsuccessful season a successful one. If that’s what he thinks then I’m sure that’ll also be the view of the club. That was a very important game for them last night. Their captain was crying at full time. Again, a weird reaction for a game that is nothing but a hindrance. In fact it’s a much more extreme reaction than we seen from any of our players some of which walked off the pitch laughing.

As for the personal jibes, pathetic really. No idea why the need for it in what is a fairly innocuous discussion, but hey ho.