Jack Ross out

[Wheat Hound]

I don't he should be sacked nor do I think he will.

However this performance, not even the result as much as the awful, gutless, characterless performance, means there will be big pressure on him quickly if we have a few bad results to start next season.

[Robbo6-2]

Jack Ross is up there with Pat Fenlon, decent men but their team is soft.

To play 4 4 2 with Irvine out wide was disgraceful. Irvine hung out to dry as was Doig in that formation. The exact same as the last match at Easter Road.

The decision to drop McGregor in favour of Porteous proved to be another disaster.

I think the job is far to big for Ross as it was for Fenlon.

Hes got to go now and bring someone else when we are in Europe rather than waiting another 6/12 months.

Fine margin commebts was what killed me. We had 2 shots on target Jack! It wasnt liked we pummeled them with shots and pressure all game. Even the first 45mins of the first semi we played better.

Yesterday we were awful from start to finish, the tempo the players attitude and the way we set up to play let the fans down. The same fans who have pumped serious money into the club with season ticket sales and HSL money through this pandemic. Ross has to take full responsibility for this. He said he was devastated for the players. The same players who couldnt give two fecks, Boyle laughing and joking at the end of the game. Mackie(granted not playing) was on Instagram posting pictures of pints with Magennis and others.

Maybe modern day footballers but they dont care about fans and the club they play for. You get the rare exceptions like Daz and Davie Gray but sadly those two were sat on bench.

The players will all **** off for some holidays in Portugal and not care one bit about yesterdays result. The rest of us have to put up with this for years.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I’d put my house on us not winning anything with him as manager :agree:

How many Hibs managers have won something? It's bloody difficult. If our employment criteria includes winning a trophy, we will be changing manager every season. I respect the opinion of those who think he's blown his chance, but I think Ross has earned the opportunity to develop this team.

[Crunchie]

A lot of this one is on the players.

They have looked so overwhelmed it's unreal. An embarrassing effort, totally and utterly abject. Have we won a 2nd ball all day? Players should be bursting a gut in a final. This has been a whimper.
:top marks He put out a team we all thought would and should have been capable of winning that game, the players to a man were woeful in every dept.
I lay that down in part to our captain for the day as well, he just doesn't do motivation, that display was like watching a pre season friendly.
I've never felt so disappointed in a Hibs team in all my life, even the relegation years. I hope Jack realises he needs to get rid of the dead wood in the team, I trust him to do it.

[Coco Bryce]

Ross totally out thought by Davidson AGAIN.

Disgusting performance from us yesterday.

[Sammy7nil]

How many Hibs managers have won something? It's bloody difficult. If our employment criteria includes winning a trophy, we will be changing manager every season. I respect the opinion of those who think he's blown his chance, but I think Ross has earned the opportunity to develop this team.

How many get the chance to win the Scottish Cup final not playing one of the old firm. Not even playing a team that finished top four.

[B.H.F.C]

How many Hibs managers have won something? It's bloody difficult. If our employment criteria includes winning a trophy, we will be changing manager every season. I respect the opinion of those who think he's blown his chance, but I think Ross has earned the opportunity to develop this team.

History obviously tells us that but you have to look at the way the draws unfolded. Two opportunities with draws like we’ve had in the cups this season, no Old Firm in the semi final of either cup competition for the first time ever to then throw those opportunities away in the manner we did.

I think it’s going to be difficult for him to develop the team because I’m not sure he can achieve anything better than he has this year. One thing in his favour is that, whilst I was concerned with losing players in the summer, I’d now take good money if we get offered it for them. Don’t want players who showed the attitude some of them did in a cup final.

[JohnM1875]

How many Hibs managers have won something? It's bloody difficult. If our employment criteria includes winning a trophy, we will be changing manager every season. I respect the opinion of those who think he's blown his chance, but I think Ross has earned the opportunity to develop this team.

He's had two cup competitions without the old firm in the semi finals, something that's literally never happened before. And he's lost both to St Johnstone.

[Key West]

Said in the players thread that it always lays on the manager but the players let him down a bit.

Then you could twist it and say where’s is the motivation from the manager because after the only chance we had in the second half with Nisbet dragging his shot wide on the 46th mark we went back to not caring again.

Also you don’t see much from Jack on the touch line during a game getting his players up for it.

Do I want him sacked? No but like others have said wouldn’t be annoyed if ron did after the season performance review.

The next level won't be achieved with Jack, it will also need some real financial backing.

[Brizo]

St J won all the 50 / 50s, they wanted it more than us, our big players didn't turn up. Part of that is down to player mentality but it's a mentality and mental strength that the manager has a big part in instilling.

We learnt absolutely nothing from our previous fixtures with them this season, everyone knew how they were going to set up and Ross didn't have the tactical acumen to counter that. That's totally down to him.

Ross has got us our best league finish in ages and I've seen more exciting and entertaining Hibs teams have much less successful seasons. I'm not calling for him to leave but Ross's pragmatic football and failure to win big games mean I wouldn't be that concerned if he did.

[EVENTUALLY]

[QUOTE=Crunchie;6576526]:top marks He put out a team we all thought would and should have been capable of winning that game, the players to a man were woeful in every dept.
I lay that down in part to our captain for the day as well, he just doesn't do motivation, that display was like watching a pre season friendly.
I've never felt so disappointed in a Hibs team in all my life, even the relegation years. I hope Jack realises he needs to get rid of the dead wood in the team, I trust him to do it.[/QUOTE

I didn't. As soon as I saw that team I knew we were in for the same hopeless performances we had previously against St. J.
It was clear that the regulars who didn't play against Celtic would all start at Hampden, but a part of me wondered if Drey Wright's role which he filled pretty well against Celtic might be something to try again. St. J were always going to set up and play in the exact same way as they had done in winning the 3 previous games against Hibs. Hibs had to try something different.

I don't trust him. He keeps making the same mistakes.

[JimBHibees]

What was a huge disappointment for me today was Hibs shape. We started with what looked like a 4-4-2 which was ineffective and finished with it. At Half time it could have easily been tweaked to give our approach a different dynamic. As the game progressed it was crying out for change however we persevered in a system that had Noah’s ark written all over it and eventual defeat.

Agree with that I can't remember the last time we played it maybe Aberdeen away maybe not. Predominantly we have been 352 and given us a bit more in the middle of the pitch. To have not changed it was imo criminal to be honest as were the subs which imo weakened our team. No way would i have taken Gogic off. Didn't seem to be any change in positions and complete lack of creativity. Time after time long ball to Doidge he loses the header and ball drops in midfield and we don't win the ball. Maybe if we had 3 in midfield and been further up the pitch we may have won some of these second balls. Sounded like we learned nothing from the previous games. Their two threats were Spoony and Rooney the goal emphasised we had no plan to combat them.

[JohnM1875]

Agree with that I can't remember the last time we played it maybe Aberdeen away maybe not. Predominantly we have been 352 and given us a bit more in the middle of the pitch. To have not changed it was imo criminal to be honest as were the subs which imo weakened our team. No way would i have taken Gogic off. Didn't seem to be any change in positions and complete lack of creativity. Time after time long ball to Doidge he loses the header and ball drops I'm midfield and we don't win the ball. Maybe if we had 3 in midfield and been further up the pitch we may have won some of these second balls. Sounded like we learned nothing from the previous games. Their two threats were Spoony and Rooney the goal emphasised we had no plan to combat them.

Taking Gogic off was totally bizarre. He's proven the past month or so he's more than just a defensive mid. Especially when Irvine and Newell were both a waste of a shirt. I do think Murphy made a difference though, and probably should have started.

[Crunchie]

[QUOTE=Crunchie;6576526]:top marks He put out a team we all thought would and should have been capable of winning that game, the players to a man were woeful in every dept.
I lay that down in part to our captain for the day as well, he just doesn't do motivation, that display was like watching a pre season friendly.
I've never felt so disappointed in a Hibs team in all my life, even the relegation years. I hope Jack realises he needs to get rid of the dead wood in the team, I trust him to do it.[/QUOTE

I didn't. As soon as I saw that team I knew we were in for the same hopeless performances we had previously against St. J.
It was clear that the regulars who didn't play against Celtic would all start at Hampden, but a part of me wondered if Drey Wright's role which he filled pretty well against Celtic might be something to try again. St. J were always going to set up and play in the exact same way as they had done in winning the 3 previous games against Hibs. Hibs had to try something different.

I don't trust him. He keeps making the same mistakes.
A very good league campaign gives him time in my book, he needs to bring in a few more and get rid of the dead wood which I'm sure he will after that insipid display.

[mcfly]

What’s just as annoying is seeing photos of players smiling with bottles of champagne.

Should hang their heads in shame.

Disgusted by that and fans won’t forget this bunch of weak minded bottlers.

[Onion]

Madness to call for Jack Ross' head but there are clear signs that he's a limited manager and has probably found his level. Players selected were fine but that's where yesterday ends. Many of our players lacked motivation. The shape of the team and style of play was doomed to fail - as it had in previous losses to St J - and JR was incapable of solving the problem.

Most of the blame for yesterday, I put on the players but what do they say about folk who do the same thing time and again, expecting a different result ?

[hibsbollah]

Taking Gogic off was totally bizarre. He's proven the past month or so he's more than just a defensive mid. Especially when Irvine and Newell were both a waste of a shirt. I do think Murphy made a difference though, and probably should have started.

I thought Murphy made everything worse. Saw a lot of the ball and ran into hopeless dead ends and gave the ball away cheaply.

[JohnM1875]

I thought Murphy made everything worse. Saw a lot of the ball and ran into hopeless dead ends and gave the ball away cheaply.

Maybe you're right mate, but because he was the only player running at them at a time when we had to throw everything at them I thought he was alright. But as you say, still created the square route of **** all.

[hibIBZ]

What’s just as annoying is seeing photos of players smiling with bottles of champagne.

Should hang their heads in shame.

Disgusted by that and fans won’t forget this bunch of weak minded bottlers.

The same bottlers that were lauded less than two weeks ago for their battling tough performance against Aberdeen?

We got done yesterday by a team that we have really struggled against. We are all hurting, lashing out at every thing at the club is not going to help. Holding grudges against players and management until they are hounded out is no way to support the club.

We will have some big games at the start of next season in Europe, allowing this negative cloud to hang around pits us on the back foot from the start followed by the inevitable.

[hibsbollah]

Maybe you're right mate, but because he was the only player running at them at a time when we had to throw everything at them I thought he was alright. But as you say, still created the square route of **** all.

The whole performance was a huge steaming stinking ****ing pile of ‘fine margins’ so shouldn’t single him out probably.

‘Fine margins’ should just be a synonym for ‘playing ****ing gash’ from now on.

[One Day Soon]

[QUOTE=Crunchie;6576526]:top marks He put out a team we all thought would and should have been capable of winning that game, the players to a man were woeful in every dept.
I lay that down in part to our captain for the day as well, he just doesn't do motivation, that display was like watching a pre season friendly.
I've never felt so disappointed in a Hibs team in all my life, even the relegation years. I hope Jack realises he needs to get rid of the dead wood in the team, I trust him to do it.[/QUOTE

I didn't. As soon as I saw that team I knew we were in for the same hopeless performances we had previously against St. J.
It was clear that the regulars who didn't play against Celtic would all start at Hampden, but a part of me wondered if Drey Wright's role which he filled pretty well against Celtic might be something to try again. St. J were always going to set up and play in the exact same way as they had done in winning the 3 previous games against Hibs. Hibs had to try something different.

I don't trust him. He keeps making the same mistakes.

Yes. The critical point for me here is that St Johnstone had already done us up in EXACTLY this same way three times previously. What was his response? It was to just take the same approach.

But most stunning of all, if you listen to his post match interview carefully, is the fact that he would clearly still take the same approach all over again. It is unforgivable.

[madhatter]

How many Hibs managers have won something? It's bloody difficult. If our employment criteria includes winning a trophy, we will be changing manager every season. I respect the opinion of those who think he's blown his chance, but I think Ross has earned the opportunity to develop this team.

Heckingbottom earned a chance as well. Does Jack Ross get 6 months? If we finish 5th next season is that fine?

If winning cups is bloody difficult why have St Johnstone managed a double? They knocked out Rangers on route as well. Guess people will give Callum Davidson and St Johnstone credit but at the same time have forgotten to debit an equal amount from Jack Ross and Hibs.

I may be wrong but if we plod along and get 5th next season, losing or drawing the derbies, some fans will still say he deserves another year and that beating Hearts is difficult.

I have no idea what criteria constitutes a managerial change now. Everyone seems to look at Spurs and say look what they did to Pochettino. As many examples the other way by changing the manager to survive relegation or take club to new heights but again we forget these.

Hibs have a culture problem and that problem is not due to sacking managers. I mean what did Alex Miller build at Hibs? Why are we consistently weak at the big venue regardless of manager?

I’m not calling on Jack Ross to go. What will cause his opportunity to run out though, just don’t know these days…

[Weir07]

St J won all the 50 / 50s, they wanted it more than us, our big players didn't turn up. Part of that is down to player mentality but it's a mentality and mental strength that the manager has a big part in instilling.

We learnt absolutely nothing from our previous fixtures with them this season, everyone knew how they were going to set up and Ross didn't have the tactical acumen to counter that. That's totally down to him.

Ross has got us our best league finish in ages and I've seen more exciting and entertaining Hibs teams have much less successful seasons. I'm not calling for him to leave but Ross's pragmatic football and failure to win big games mean I wouldn't be that concerned if he did.


"We learnt absolutely nothing from our previous fixtures with them this season, everyone knew how they were going to set up and Ross didn't have the tactical acumen to counter that. That's totally down to him."

This is exactly where I am, two dress rehersals in the league and the Final yesterday was exactly like those games , with exactly the same outcome. The players do deserve to accept a degree of responsibility but I think Jack Ross should shoulder most of the blame.

A golden opportunity blown and I honestly think it will be difficult for Jack to win back the majority of fans even though 3rd place and two semi finals and one final in the last three cup competitions is a more than decent record.

[Hiber-nation]

Yes. The critical point for me here is that St Johnstone had already done us up in EXACTLY this same way three times previously. What was his response? It was to just take the same approach.

But most stunning of all, if you listen to his post match interview carefully, is the fact that he would clearly still take the same approach all over again. It is unforgivable.

Yep, when you take into account his pitiful post match interview he comes across as a smartarse who is simply shrugging his shoulders at the whole thing.

[One Day Soon]

The same bottlers that were lauded less than two weeks ago for their battling tough performance against Aberdeen?

We got done yesterday by a team that we have really struggled against. We are all hurting, lashing out at every thing at the club is not going to help. Holding grudges against players and management until they are hounded out is no way to support the club.

We will have some big games at the start of next season in Europe, allowing this negative cloud to hang around pits us on the back foot from the start followed by the inevitable.

No, the performance yesterday is what has put us on the back foot. The only way any negative cloud gets dispatched is through leadership - which should come from the manager. What was his response? ‘It was disappointing to lose but we put in a good performance.’ No Jack, we really didn’t. We know that because we have eyes.

[Crammond Hibee]

The whole performance was a huge steaming stinking ****ing pile of ‘fine margins’ so shouldn’t single him out probably.

‘Fine margins’ should just be a synonym for ‘playing ****ing gash’ from now on.

Aye fine margins.One goal less than the opposition.LOL

[#2 Double Tap]

The same bottlers that were lauded less than two weeks ago for their battling tough performance against Aberdeen?

We got done yesterday by a team that we have really struggled against. We are all hurting, lashing out at every thing at the club is not going to help. Holding grudges against players and management until they are hounded out is no way to support the club.

We will have some big games at the start of next season in Europe, allowing this negative cloud to hang around pits us on the back foot from the start followed by the inevitable.

so act fast, bin him and unite the fan base, we have all seen this movie before, give us something positive to dream about, instead of dread or worry about.

how many season tickets did that performance yesterday cost us......im guessing it will be upwards of 1 or 2k.

[hibIBZ]

No, the performance yesterday is what has put us on the back foot. The only way any negative cloud gets dispatched is through leadership - which should come from the manager. What was his response? ‘It was disappointing to lose but we put in a good performance.’ No Jack, we really didn’t. We know that because we have eyes.

Ok let's sack him, spend a month looking for a new manager, dump him in to a team that isn't his, who are on a downer and have now had their manager sacked, with arguably our biggest games of the season mere weeks away.

[JimBHibees]

St J won all the 50 / 50s, they wanted it more than us, our big players didn't turn up. Part of that is down to player mentality but it's a mentality and mental strength that the manager has a big part in instilling.

We learnt absolutely nothing from our previous fixtures with them this season, everyone knew how they were going to set up and Ross didn't have the tactical acumen to counter that. That's totally down to him.

Ross has got us our best league finish in ages and I've seen more exciting and entertaining Hibs teams have much less successful seasons. I'm not calling for him to leave but Ross's pragmatic football and failure to win big games mean I wouldn't be that concerned if he did.

Absolutely spot on. The lack of intensity was criminal especially when we were behind. The same lack of intensity as shown in all our games v the same opposition. Nothing being changed in terms of shape no forward option to come on real lack of leadership in the pitch. No one getting after people winning tackles getting angry with others. It was a cup final where we will be laughed at for losing after the previous failures this season and we went out with a whimper and no fight. Pathetic

Compare and contrast the intensity and fight we showed yesterday with what Hearts showed when losing to Celtic on penalties just a few months back. Night and day.

[Crammond Hibee]

"We learnt absolutely nothing from our previous fixtures with them this season, everyone knew how they were going to set up and Ross didn't have the tactical acumen to counter that. That's totally down to him."

This is exactly where I am, two dress rehersals in the league and the Final yesterday was exactly like those games , with exactly the same outcome. The players do deserve to accept a degree of responsibility but I think Jack Ross should shoulder most of the blame.

A golden opportunity blown and I honestly think it will be difficult for Jack to win back the majority of fans even though 3rd place and two semi finals and one final in the last three cup competitions is a more than decent record.

Hmmm now let me think .5th and 2 cup wins ?
Difficult choice 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[superfurryhibby]

"We learnt absolutely nothing from our previous fixtures with them this season, everyone knew how they were going to set up and Ross didn't have the tactical acumen to counter that. That's totally down to him."

This is exactly where I am, two dress rehersals in the league and the Final yesterday was exactly like those games , with exactly the same outcome. The players do deserve to accept a degree of responsibility but I think Jack Ross should shoulder most of the blame.

A golden opportunity blown and I honestly think it will be difficult for Jack to win back the majority of fans even though 3rd place and two semi finals and one final in the last three cup competitions is a more than decent record.

With you on most of this. Ross picked the team and the tactics were down to him. He got it wrong and didn’t know how to change things. Why not is up for question. Sheer bloody mindedness or just ineptitude?

He’s not a stupid man, he must have anticipated that the game might have gone the way it did and he
must surely have discussed a plan B with his coaching team?

Ross has been damaged by the cup results. We all know there was a chance to achieve Hibernian immortality and ultimately he’s been found wanting, three times against inferior opposition. I have my doubts as to whether Gordon will find that acceptable. His ambition for Hibs isn’t being met by his manager’s talent, 3rd place or not.

I reckon there will be a lot of movement at Hibs this summer and I ask myself if Gordon trusts Ross to make the right choices when it comes to players coming in. I have my doubts.

[hibIBZ]

so act fast, bin him and unite the fan base, we have all seen this movie before, give us something positive to dream about, instead of dread or worry about.

how many season tickets did that performance yesterday cost us......im guessing it will be upwards of 1 or 2k.

But would it be a lift? Do the players back Ross, do they buy in to what he is doing? Players that are fully behind their manager are going to be a bit raging they have been sacked making the new managers job even harder. What is the atmosphere at the club and in the dressing room? I've no idea as will most people,

[JimBHibees]

No, the performance yesterday is what has put us on the back foot. The only way any negative cloud gets dispatched is through leadership - which should come from the manager. What was his response? ‘It was disappointing to lose but we put in a good performance.’ No Jack, we really didn’t. We know that because we have eyes.

I haven't seen his interview yesterday please tell me he didn't say we played well.

[Sir David Gray]

I haven't seen his interview yesterday please tell me he didn't say we played well.

Part of his comments were "It's a sore dressing room in there, they put so much into the game. I don't think I could have asked for any more desire, heart and commitment into it.

"In the first half we probably have the clearest opportunity, and that's the fine moments we spoke about pre-match. In the second half we had to do things a little bit quicker and braver.

"I don't think there is a huge amount between the two, but the fine margins didn't go our way and in the final third we were maybe not as incisive today."

[B.H.F.C]

"We learnt absolutely nothing from our previous fixtures with them this season, everyone knew how they were going to set up and Ross didn't have the tactical acumen to counter that. That's totally down to him."

This is exactly where I am, two dress rehersals in the league and the Final yesterday was exactly like those games , with exactly the same outcome. The players do deserve to accept a degree of responsibility but I think Jack Ross should shoulder most of the blame.

A golden opportunity blown and I honestly think it will be difficult for Jack to win back the majority of fans even though 3rd place and two semi finals and one final in the last three cup competitions is a more than decent record.

Whatever anyone thinks, he’s undoubtedly done in the eyes of an element of our support (although I’m not sure it’s a majority).

If we flop in these European qualifiers he’ll be really up against it.

[One Day Soon]

Ok let's sack him, spend a month looking for a new manager, dump him in to a team that isn't his, who are on a downer and have now had their manager sacked, with arguably our biggest games of the season mere weeks away.

Or, or - bear with me here - let’s see the manager stop talking pish in public, admit he has fundamental lessons to learn, treat the support with some respect rather than as financial nodding dogs, make clear that players need to be hungrier to take rare chances like these and openly recognise that cup finals and derbies aren’t just another game and that our support expects to see good, fast football played with ambition?

Alternatively he could just monotone it, talk cobblers completely at variance with what we witnessed, show no real remorse for ****ing it up in some big games that really mattered and come across as someone who thinks that progression can be paraded on an open top bus.

[One Day Soon]

I haven't seen his interview yesterday please tell me he didn't say we played well.

Let’s just say he didn’t convey any disappointment whatsoever about pace, works rate, attitude or tactical approach. None.

[Hiber-nation]

Part of his comments were "It's a sore dressing room in there, they put so much into the game. I don't think I could have asked for any more desire, heart and commitment into it."

He has to be protecting the players. He couldn't possibly have meant that. Could he?

[JimBHibees]

I thought Murphy made everything worse. Saw a lot of the ball and ran into hopeless dead ends and gave the ball away cheaply.

Personally felt sorry for him. He was given the ball 2 or 3 times and was then left with 3 or 4 Saints players with what looked like no support at all. No midfielder showing, no forward showing, no full back making overlap or underlap runs. Similar in the first half with Boyle getting the ball and 4 Saints players surrounding him.

[One Day Soon]

He has to be protecting the players. He couldn't possibly have meant that. Could he?

God knows. What’s the point of protecting the dressing room at this stage? If you won’t give them a rocket after a display like that and with the season is over then when will you? Everyone seems way too comfortable there in my view.

[hibIBZ]

Or, or - bear with me here - let’s see the manager stop talking pish in public, admit he has fundamental lessons to learn, treat the support with some respect rather than as financial nodding dogs, make clear that players need to be hungrier to take rare chances like these and openly recognise that cup finals and derbies aren’t just another game and that our support expects to see good, fast football played with ambition?

Alternatively he could just monotone it, talk cobblers completely at variance with what we witnessed, show no real remorse for ****ing it up in some big games that really mattered and come across as someone who thinks that progression can be paraded on an open top bus.

Jack Ross conducts interviews as somebody who has been media trained to talk and say nothing.
Whether fans agree with this or not, the modern world has created this.

I don't think slaughtering players in public helps anybody.

In terms of personal performance, would any of us stand up in front of the world and say they have been crap at their job? I'm sure during performance reviews etc Ross will know where he has gone wrong and what needs fixed.

We didn't play well enough, we were flat without a doubt, but he is right, we take our chance first when we had it, for me we win the game

[#2 Double Tap]

But would it be a lift? Do the players back Ross, do they buy in to what he is doing? Players that are fully behind their manager are going to be a bit raging they have been sacked making the new managers job even harder. What is the atmosphere at the club and in the dressing room? I've no idea as will most people,

does it look like they buy into what he is doing?

yesterday was pretty typical of jack ross's hibs, we may have finished third but all season its been the same, yes we have performed well in a few games, but most have been brutal to view. clinging on at home, conceding late goals, sitting so deep, lack of pressing, terrible subs, too many weak signings......what are the positives of jack ross's hibs, there is very little that excites.

we need to sell season tickets, fans are not gonna turn up to watch that.imo

[JimBHibees]

Part of his comments were "It's a sore dressing room in there, they put so much into the game. I don't think I could have asked for any more desire, heart and commitment into it.

"In the first half we probably have the clearest opportunity, and that's the fine moments we spoke about pre-match. In the second half we had to do things a little bit quicker and braver.

"I don't think there is a huge amount between the two, but the fine margins didn't go our way and in the final third we were maybe not as incisive today."

Those comments are staggering he could maybe get away with that if a one off but that has been the same in the last 4 games v the same opposition. Not good enough simple as that. Lost every individual battle on the pitch won no second balls simply beaten by a more organised team who wanted it more. The exact way not to lose a final.

[hibee92]

Clown? Really?

We hardly ever win anything. We have about ten trophies in almost 150 years. We are all unhappy about yesterday, but we've lost many more finals than we've won.

Aw that’s fine then

[One Day Soon]

Jack Ross conducts interviews as somebody who has been media trained to talk and say nothing.
Whether fans agree with this or not, the modern world has created this.

I don't think slaughtering players in public helps anybody.

In terms of personal performance, would any of us stand up in front of the world and say they have been crap at their job? I'm sure during performance reviews etc Ross will know where he has gone wrong and what needs fixed.

We didn't play well enough, we were flat without a doubt, but he is right, we take our chance first when we had it, for me we win the game

He doesn’t need to slaughter anyone, he just needed to be honest. He’s been done up like a kipper by Davidson repeatedly - he knows it, Davidson knows it, we know it, the pundits know it. Given that he’s repeatedly not even tried to fix it but just taken the same approach each time I do not share your confidence that he knows what needs fixed. As for first chances, that’s firmly in ‘if my auntie had baws she’d be my uncle’ territory.

[hibIBZ]

He doesn’t need to slaughter anyone, he just needed to be honest. He’s been done up like a kipper by Davidson repeatedly - he knows it, Davidson knows it, we know it, the pundits know it. Given that he’s repeatedly not even tried to fix it but just taken the same approach each time I do not share your confidence that he knows what needs fixed. As for first chances, that’s firmly in ‘if my auntie had baws she’d be my uncle’ territory.

Well if he doesn't know what needs fixed or where he has gone wrong surely his interview was honest the ?

[calumhibee1]

How many Hibs managers have won something? It's bloody difficult. If our employment criteria includes winning a trophy, we will be changing manager every season. I respect the opinion of those who think he's blown his chance, but I think Ross has earned the opportunity to develop this team.

St Johnstone have won 3 trophies in 7 years. We make it look more difficult than it is and we shouldn’t be using our past failures as a barometer going forward imo.

[JimBHibees]

Let’s just say he didn’t convey any disappointment whatsoever about pace, works rate, attitude or tactical approach. None.

Incredible to be honest. No wonder fans question his ability to motivate when it matters

[Iain G]

Personally felt sorry for him. He was given the ball 2 or 3 times and was then left with 3 or 4 Saints players with what looked like no support at all. No midfielder showing, no forward showing, no full back making overlap or underlap runs. Similar in the first half with Boyle getting the ball and 4 Saints players surrounding him.

What we could have done from the start, doubled up in the wide areas with fullback overlapping as happened twice with Doig after Murphy came on and made space for him to run into. It showed promise and then it fizzled out.

We weren't brave enough to take our game to them straight out the traps. The manager is to blame for that.

[madhatter]

St Johnstone have won 3 trophies in 7 years. We make it look more difficult than it is and we shouldn’t be using our past failures as a barometer going forward imo.

Exactly, using the past to justify the present means the future remains the same as the past in this sense, as far as I'm concerned. How many "ack well, we are normally hopeless anyway" comments adds up to a managerial change?

We want Ron Gordon to take the club to the next level while simultaneously excusing failures using our past. Cannot understand it personally.

Expect better, not the same.

[One Day Soon]

Well if he doesn't know what needs fixed or where he has gone wrong surely his interview was honest the ?

We’re getting quite close to ‘’You are Jack Ross and I claim my £10 prize’ territory here.

[JimBHibees]

Jack Ross conducts interviews as somebody who has been media trained to talk and say nothing.
Whether fans agree with this or not, the modern world has created this.

I don't think slaughtering players in public helps anybody.

In terms of personal performance, would any of us stand up in front of the world and say they have been crap at their job? I'm sure during performance reviews etc Ross will know where he has gone wrong and what needs fixed.

We didn't play well enough, we were flat without a doubt, but he is right, we take our chance first when we had it, for me we win the game

unfortunately in four games we have played them we have not been able to test that theory. We really can't keep saying that when we palpably are not able to respond to going behind and threaten their goal in any meaningful way.

[h1bs4life]

I wonder what the fans reaction if we had been at games this season to some of the performances both at home and Hampden would have been
As someone who was delighted when we got him he can go for me.
Where did the hype about him come from ? What has he actually done as a player / coach / manager

[hibIBZ]

We’re getting quite close to ‘’You are Jack Ross and I claim my £10 prize’ territory here.

I'm sorry for backing people and not wanting people to lose their jobs.

I do enjoy a cheeky response because people have nothing else to say.

Not to worry I don't think you will be winning the £10, I'll get my pitchfork and join the hunt

[truehibernian]

Those comments are staggering he could maybe get away with that if a one off but that has been the same in the last 4 games v the same opposition. Not good enough simple as that. Lost every individual battle on the pitch won no second balls simply beaten by a more organised team who wanted it more. The exact way not to lose a final.

It's the modern 'positive coaching' methods that are now part of management culture Jim. I'm not for one minute advocating the hairdryer treatment the minute we lose a game, but you have to have a defined line between manager and players and when players don't perform in a cup final, not even create a few chances, and allow a game to play out like a training game, there has to be a time where a manager takes that protective cloak off and say in public what every supporter and pundit is saying. Fergie after the cup final - many were dumbfounded, but that creates a winning mentality and standards - and he had won the damn thing :rolleyes:

The smiling after the game from players, the 'celebrations' at the Marriott afterwards, that just tells me that there is no genuine hurt or innate feelings of 'we let ourselves and the club down'. That tells me it's a dressing room of players who think getting to a final is the achievement, when winning it is the be all and end all - nothing else matters in a cup.

As I said yesterday, I'm angry and very very disappointed in the manager's and players reactions to yesterday - they should be closing the curtains and staying indoors this week. Yesterday was as embarrassing a performance I've seen from any team in a cup final in recent years.

Whilst stopping short of a rebuild, I'm looking for a ruthless streak in summer and many players moved on. Third should not be downplayed, but they should have had something tangible for their season's efforts. Yesterday was that golden chance.

I want some genuine pace and energy in the wide area and a spine of leaders - centre halves, midfield, and striker. You can have the best three attackers in the league, but if you don't have a foundation at the back, and dynamism in midfield, you're always susceptible to a game like yesterday where the midfield in particular were found really wanting.

For a team like Saints to play through the lines so easily and in truth, carve us open, shows the weaknesses are in midfield and at centre half.

[JimBHibees]

What we could have done from the start, doubled up in the wide areas with fullback overlapping as happened twice with Doig after Murphy came on and made space for him to run into. It showed promise and then it fizzled out.

We weren't brave enough to take our game to them straight out the traps. The manager is to blame for that.

I would expect one of the forwards to be showing, one of the midfielders to show as well as the full back. We played too slow from the start and made it a cagey nervous game which suited their style imo.

[One Day Soon]

I'm sorry for backing people and not wanting people to lose their jobs.

I do enjoy a cheeky response because people have nothing else to say.

Not to worry I don't think you will be winning the £10, I'll get my pitchfork and join the hunt

It’s not as black and white as that though is it? Go look at the thread on what he should have said afterwards, it’s not perfect but it’s in the right space. The current version of Jack Ross will not survive next season.

[superfurryhibby]

Well if he doesn't know what needs fixed or where he has gone wrong surely his interview was honest the ?

If that was the case, then surely Ross would be an inept manager and out of his depth in terms of his managerial ability?

[One Day Soon]

It's the modern 'positive coaching' methods that are now part of management culture Jim. I'm not for one minute advocating the hairdryer treatment the minute we lose a game, but you have to have a defined line between manager and players and when players don't perform in a cup final, not even create a few chances, and allow a game to play out like a training game, there has to be a time where a manager takes that protective cloak off and say in public what every supporter and pundit is saying. Fergie after the cup final - many were dumbfounded, but that creates a winning mentality and standards - and he had won the damn thing :rolleyes:

The smiling after the game from players, the 'celebrations' at the Marriott afterwards, that just tells me that there is no genuine hurt or innate feelings of 'we let ourselves and the club down'. That tells me it's a dressing room of players who think getting to a final is the achievement, when winning it is the be all and end all - nothing else matters in a cup.

As I said yesterday, I'm angry and very very disappointed in the manager's and players reactions to yesterday - they should be closing the curtains and staying indoors this week. Yesterday was as embarrassing a performance I've seen from any team in a cup final in recent years.

Whilst stopping short of a rebuild, I'm looking for a ruthless streak in summer and many players moved on. Third should not be downplayed, but they should have had something tangible for their season's efforts. Yesterday was that golden chance.

I want some genuine pace and energy in the wide area and a spine of leaders - centre halves, midfield, and striker. You can have the best three attackers in the league, but if you don't have a foundation at the back, and dynamism in midfield, you're always susceptible to a game like yesterday where the midfield in particular were found really wanting.

For a team like Saints to play through the lines so easily and in truth, carve us open, shows the weaknesses are in midfield and at centre half.

Magnificent post.

[Since452]

In out in out shake it all about

[Iain G]

I would expect one of the forwards to be showing, one of the midfielders to show as well as the full back. We played too slow from the start and made it a cagey nervous game which suited their style imo.

We should have set up to challenge them and have a right to, getting players wide, overloading the wings and then getting runners into the box and make it hard for them, do something to impact the game and put them on the back foot. We either dont know how to do this or are too scared or lack the belief to do so.

Would have been tempted to start Murphy and Doig on one side and SDG (if he is fit enough to get half a fame out of him and win it early) and Boyle on the other and get at them behind their wing backs and their centre backs.

Maybe not the right idea but try impact and control the game and make them change their plan. We were weak and feeble.

[hibIBZ]

If that was the case, then surely Ross would be an inept manager and out of his depth in terms of his managerial ability?

But he is clearly not inept imo.

I'm not saying for a moment yesterday was ok. It wasn't, we were poor and lacked a lot against a team we have struggled with.

But how as a team that is rarely in the top 3 sack a manager for getting us there.

There is a lot of chat about lack of goals on other threads, we are the third highest scoring team in the league this season

Defensive problems? Third lowest number of goals conceded.

Ok the football isn't great at times and we have last the semi and final.

Getting rid of the manager on the back if it is just not a good idea

[The Harp Awakes]

Part of his comments were "It's a sore dressing room in there, they put so much into the game. I don't think I could have asked for any more desire, heart and commitment into it.

"In the first half we probably have the clearest opportunity, and that's the fine moments we spoke about pre-match. In the second half we had to do things a little bit quicker and braver.

"I don't think there is a huge amount between the two, but the fine margins didn't go our way and in the final third we were maybe not as incisive today."

Those comments are revealing, because if JR actually believes what he's saying, then the bar is set far too low for the players. Yesterday both the Manager and players let the club down badly; not because they lost the game, but because they were woefully unprepared both tactically and mentally and looked as if they were playing just another game and didn't give a toss.

JR and the players have achieved a lot this season, but it looks like they may have blown it all away in the eyes of the supporters in 24 hours. After match comments like those have rubbed salt into the wounds and JR may have just talked himself out of a job.

[JimBHibees]

It's the modern 'positive coaching' methods that are now part of management culture Jim. I'm not for one minute advocating the hairdryer treatment the minute we lose a game, but you have to have a defined line between manager and players and when players don't perform in a cup final, not even create a few chances, and allow a game to play out like a training game, there has to be a time where a manager takes that protective cloak off and say in public what every supporter and pundit is saying. Fergie after the cup final - many were dumbfounded, but that creates a winning mentality and standards - and he had won the damn thing :rolleyes:

The smiling after the game from players, the 'celebrations' at the Marriott afterwards, that just tells me that there is no genuine hurt or innate feelings of 'we let ourselves and the club down'. That tells me it's a dressing room of players who think getting to a final is the achievement, when winning it is the be all and end all - nothing else matters in a cup.

As I said yesterday, I'm angry and very very disappointed in the manager's and players reactions to yesterday - they should be closing the curtains and staying indoors this week. Yesterday was as embarrassing a performance I've seen from any team in a cup final in recent years.

Whilst stopping short of a rebuild, I'm looking for a ruthless streak in summer and many players moved on. Third should not be downplayed, but they should have had something tangible for their season's efforts. Yesterday was that golden chance.

I want some genuine pace and energy in the wide area and a spine of leaders - centre halves, midfield, and striker. You can have the best three attackers in the league, but if you don't have a foundation at the back, and dynamism in midfield, you're always susceptible to a game like yesterday where the midfield in particular were found really wanting.

For a team like Saints to play through the lines so easily and in truth, carve us open, shows the weaknesses are in midfield and at centre half.

Agree with all of that the lack of leadership on the pitch was startling. No hurt no aggression the same mistakes over and over. Didn't understand taking Gogic off as when off you could drive a bus through the midfield not to say we were great when he was on. To only play 2 midfielders for the whole game was astounding imo.

[hibsbollah]

It's the modern 'positive coaching' methods that are now part of management culture Jim. I'm not for one minute advocating the hairdryer treatment the minute we lose a game, but you have to have a defined line between manager and players and when players don't perform in a cup final, not even create a few chances, and allow a game to play out like a training game, there has to be a time where a manager takes that protective cloak off and say in public what every supporter and pundit is saying. Fergie after the cup final - many were dumbfounded, but that creates a winning mentality and standards - and he had won the damn thing :rolleyes:

The smiling after the game from players, the 'celebrations' at the Marriott afterwards, that just tells me that there is no genuine hurt or innate feelings of 'we let ourselves and the club down'. That tells me it's a dressing room of players who think getting to a final is the achievement, when winning it is the be all and end all - nothing else matters in a cup.

As I said yesterday, I'm angry and very very disappointed in the manager's and players reactions to yesterday - they should be closing the curtains and staying indoors this week. Yesterday was as embarrassing a performance I've seen from any team in a cup final in recent years.

Whilst stopping short of a rebuild, I'm looking for a ruthless streak in summer and many players moved on. Third should not be downplayed, but they should have had something tangible for their season's efforts. Yesterday was that golden chance.

I want some genuine pace and energy in the wide area and a spine of leaders - centre halves, midfield, and striker. You can have the best three attackers in the league, but if you don't have a foundation at the back, and dynamism in midfield, you're always susceptible to a game like yesterday where the midfield in particular were found really wanting.

For a team like Saints to play through the lines so easily and in truth, carve us open, shows the weaknesses are in midfield and at centre half.

Drinks afterwards don’t bother me in the slightest. The rest of your post is spot on TH. It’s a big summer for someone to channel their inner Football Manager and make some signings (starting with the likes of Campbell from Motherwell and working from there).

[madhatter]

But he is clearly not inept imo.

I'm not saying for a moment yesterday was ok. It wasn't, we were poor and lacked a lot against a team we have struggled with.

But how as a team that is rarely in the top 3 sack a manager for getting us there.

There is a lot of chat about lack of goals on other threads, we are the third highest scoring team in the league this season

Defensive problems? Third lowest number of goals conceded.

Ok the football isn't great at times and we have last the semi and final.

Getting rid of the manager on the back if it is just not a good idea

Lack of creativity and goals from midfield is a fact. If Boyle is injured, not in form, or marked out of a game we stop as a team. Hoofball.

Stats are great but if you can't see defensive problems with Hibs then please watch the lead up to their penalty...

Good idea? What is? Pretty sure the same was said about Heckingbottom as while we went up the league in his first 1/2 season the team weren't playing great. People said give him time and changing the manager would be silly - what happened later on? I can guarantee if we are back in the stadium Jack Ross will find life at Hibs very difficult unless he wins derbies and gets off to a flyer in the league and cups. I don't boo but I can guarantee fan reaction would be 10 times worse if we had been at Hampden for Hearts and St Johnstone games, that added to the Livi and Ross County games at home.

Let's not forget being a manager and player without fans is easier. They talk about missing fans but being a football player and manager without pressure from the stands can quickly descend to a kick about with mates, a training session, which is exactly how we played yesterday. Imagine the stick Jack Ross would get from the stands, from behind the dugout...

These insipid performances where the entire team don't turn up will not be accepted.

[superfurryhibby]

But he is clearly not inept imo.

I'm not saying for a moment yesterday was ok. It wasn't, we were poor and lacked a lot against a team we have struggled with.

But how as a team that is rarely in the top 3 sack a manager for getting us there.

There is a lot of chat about lack of goals on other threads, we are the third highest scoring team in the league this season

Defensive problems? Third lowest number of goals conceded.

Ok the football isn't great at times and we have last the semi and final.

Getting rid of the manager on the back if it is just not a good idea

He has seen a significant investment in the team, possibly more so than any Hibs manager since McLeish. Anything less than fourth would have been viewed as failure. Ross managed to better that, so credit due there.

However, he got it so wrong yesterday. His side have blown two semi finals and a cup final against teams that are inferior. That for me is unforgivable.

His tactics played straight into St Johnston’s hands. His refusal to alter course tells me he hasn’t got the nous when it really matters. He got it wrong and was too stubborn to change things.

Yesterday was damaging for the club and for Ross. I struggle to see how he can come back from it. With all the imminent transfers, I wouldn’t be backing our manager to use the proceeds wisely. Gordon’s not likely to be accepting of this either. In my view Ross is done.

[Peevemor]

Lack of creativity and goals from midfield is a fact. If Boyle is injured, not in form, or marked out of a game we stop as a team. Hoofball.

Stats are great but if you can't see defensive problems with Hibs then please watch the lead up to their penalty...

Good idea? What is? Pretty sure the same was said about Heckingbottom as while we went up the league in his first 1/2 season the team weren't playing great. People said give him time and changing the manager would be silly - what happened later on? I can guarantee if we are back in the stadium Jack Ross will find life at Hibs very difficult unless he wins derbies and gets off to a flyer in the league and cups. I don't boo but I can guarantee fan reaction would be 10 times worse if we had been at Hampden for Hearts and St Johnstone games, that added to the Livi and Ross County games at home.

Let's not forget being a manager and player without fans is easier. They talk about missing fans but being a football player and manager without pressure from the stands can quickly descend to a kick about with mates, a training session, which is exactly how we played yesterday. Imagine the stick Jack Ross would get from the stands, from behind the dugout...

These insipid performances where the entire team don't turn up will not be accepted.So no allowances should be made for having to go the season with a reduced squad? In general our signings improve the squad but with Covid budgets it wasn't possible to strengthen in all areas - certainly not enough to have a balanced bench.

There are loads of things we can criticise, but if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture then we're definitely going in the right direction.

I'm more worried that people can't see that than by anything going on at ER/EM.

[calumhibee1]

So no allowances should be made for having to go the season with a reduced squad? In general our signings improve the squad but with Covid budgets it wasn't possible to strengthen in all areas - certainly not enough to have a balanced bench.

There are loads of things we can criticise, but if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture then we're definitely going in the right direction.

I'm more worried that people can't see that than by anything going on at ER/EM.

Every team has had to deal with COVID and the impacts on their squad. We’ve actually threw a bit of cash at it this season. So no, there shouldn’t really be much in the way of allowances.

[superfurryhibby]

So no allowances should be made for having to go the season with a reduced squad? In general our signings improve the squad but with Covid budgets it wasn't possible to strengthen in all areas - certainly not enough to have a balanced bench.

There are loads of things we can criticise, but if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture then we're definitely going in the right direction.

I'm more worried that people can't see that than by anything going on at ER/EM.

Reduced squad didn’t matter yesterday. We had the better players in most areas of the pitch. It was more about our tactical failings and inability to set them up in a way that gave them the best chance to beat a side that offered little more than desire and good organisation.

Sorry, third place doesn’t even touch the disappointment of losing the two semi finals and final.

[B.H.F.C]

Every team has had to deal with COVID and the impacts on their squad. We’ve actually threw a bit of cash at it this season. So no, there shouldn’t really be much in the way of allowances.

Talking of COVID, half the St Johnstone squad either had it or had to isolate because of it. They only training together on Wednesday. They also have much less of a budget than us but seem to have options to change things, like when they made 7 changes against us a few weeks back. Despite that, two identical games.

[MWHIBBIES]

Talking of COVID, half the St Johnstone squad either had it or had to isolate because of it. They only training together on Wednesday. They also have much less of a budget than us but seem to have options to change things, like when they made 7 changes against us a few weeks back. Despite that, two identical games.

Because the plan doesn't change. They have a squad who fully understand what the manager wants and do it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

St Johnstone have won 3 trophies in 7 years. We make it look more difficult than it is and we shouldn’t be using our past failures as a barometer going forward imo.

I get that mate, and all credit to them, St Johnstone have achieved something very special this season. On the other hand, how many trophies have Aberdeen, Hearts, Motherwell and all the rest won recently? St Johnstone are the exception to the rule in a country where Celtic won twelve trophies in a row and Rangers are now winning again.

We have made a lot of progress in the last few years, after the dark days of relegation and the Championship. There will be setbacks, but we are moving in the right direction. Another chance for Ross for me :aok:

[The Spaceman]

We were 90 minutes away from one of our greatest ever seasons. Disappointed? Absolutely. Angry? No. Some people have to accept St Johnstone are a very good team now with superb form since October and a cup double to their name which is not luck (including knocking out an Invincibles Sevco on their way). It was always going to be 50/50.

We dust ourselves down and move on. Ross is the man to lead us.

[BoomtownHibees]

We were 90 minutes away from one of our greatest ever seasons. Disappointed? Absolutely. Angry? No. Some people have to accept St Johnstone are a very good team now with superb form since October and a cup double to their name. It was always going to be 50/50.

It would have been 50/50 if our players actually turned up. No fight, no desire, no intensity. Not sure why you wouldn’t be angry at that

[madhatter]

So no allowances should be made for having to go the season with a reduced squad? In general our signings improve the squad but with Covid budgets it wasn't possible to strengthen in all areas - certainly not enough to have a balanced bench.

There are loads of things we can criticise, but if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture then we're definitely going in the right direction.

I'm more worried that people can't see that than by anything going on at ER/EM.

That's my point though - regardless of what I say or think, Jack Ross will be under a lot more pressure next season. Not a little, a lot. A cup in the bag would have helped considerably.

Right direction in football is a strange concept in my eyes. Hibs were going up the ladder comfortably and then slipped down as they missed a few rungs. People forget other clubs went through changes this season - managers being sacked and new managers taking over. Aberdeen have had a bad season by all regards and they were within touching distance of us. Does that mean we've surpassed Aberdeen? We're going in the right direction and they are slipping down the ladder? Not sure about that.

We need a clearout and I doubt it will happen. We have a decent number of 21-24 year old "youngsters" that are out on loan that I don't think we have the luxury of keeping around and we have 12 players in our first team squad that you would class as backup or padding (either through age or drop off in quality). No challenge for places whatsoever. Our signing policy looks more like collecting notable playing cards rather than team building that's why we don't have a balanced bench, nothing to do with Covid budgets. Why sign Magennis? Why sign Muprhy? Why risk it with players with glaringly obvious injury issues? Got 8 players that play CM (2-3 away on loan) and 3 wingers (1 not good enough and 1 with injury issues, leaving us with Boyle on the right as it's always been for years now).

Wait for things to come good seems to be flavour of the season. Fine, I can wait. Not a problem with that. The problem I have is, what do we do if success doesn't come after the wait? And what is the wait period? Can't change managers every 6-18months. Fine, what is an acceptable period. Not just for managers. It is the same for players at Hibs. We've got "youngsters" out on loan that are older than Daniel Mackay who we've just signed. What is the wait time for them to break through?

[MWHIBBIES]

We were 90 minutes away from one of our greatest ever seasons. Disappointed? Absolutely. Angry? No. Some people have to accept St Johnstone are a very good team now with superb form since October and a cup double to their name which is not luck (including knocking out an Invincibles Sevco on their way). It was always going to be 50/50.

We dust ourselves down and move on. Ross is the man to lead us.

Surely we're a very good team as well if we're 18 ahead of them?

If it was 50/50, go a toss a coin. Representing our last 4 games against them. See how many times you get heads 4 times in a row.

Ross ****ed it because he didn't change anything and didn't figure them out. Thats on him.

[superfurryhibby]

We were 90 minutes away from one of our greatest ever seasons. Disappointed? Absolutely. Angry? No. Some people have to accept St Johnstone are a very good team now with superb form since October and a cup double to their name which is not luck (including knocking out an Invincibles Sevco on their way). It was always going to be 50/50.

We dust ourselves down and move on. Ross is the man to lead us.

St Johnstone are an average team who finished 18 points behind a fairly average Hibs sides in a league that has been as dire as the SPFL gets.

They do have a manager who knows how to beat Hibs and a bunch of well organised players who battled for everything.

They’ve made history, but let’s not pretend they are an outstanding side.

[Hibernia&Alba]

St Johnstone are an average team who finished 18 points behind a fairly average Hibs sides in a league that has been as dire as the SPFL gets.

They do have a manager who knows how to beat Hibs and a bunch of well organised players who battled for everything.

They’ve made history, but let’s not pretend they are an outstanding side.

They aren't Bayern Munich, sure, but you don't fluke a cup double. That requires a decent team.

[Stokesy's on fire]

St Johnstone are an average team who finished 18 points behind a fairly average Hibs sides in a league that has been as dire as the SPFL gets.

They do have a manager who knows how to beat Hibs and a bunch of well organised players who battled for everything.

They’ve made history, but let’s not pretend they are an outstanding side.


Yup i agree they are pretty poor to be honest the issue is they love playing us. Everyone else can beat them

[superfurryhibby]

Surely we're a very good team as well if we're 18 ahead of them?

If it was 50/50, go a toss a coin. Representing our last 4 games against them. See how many times you get heads 4 times in a row.

Ross ****ed it because he didn't change anything and didn't figure them out. Thats on him.

I’m amazed that some people can’t see what is staring us in the face. Ross ****ed it before we had even kicked a ball.

I’m feeling even more disillusioned in the cold light of day than I did yesterday.

[BoomtownHibees]

Yup i agree they are pretty poor to be honest the issue is they love playing us. Everyone else can beat them

They’ve only lost to Rangers, Celtc and Aberdeen in the last 24 games

[sorrow sorrow]

3rd in the league was decent but overall I think the football we play is not great to watch.we really miss Scott Allan,Dylan mcgeough type of footballers.
Too much hoofball with the type of midfielders we have,a real lack of creativity.
Over the season I can’t think of many games where I’ve thought that was a good watch.

[Weegreenman]

Can anyone say they are surprised at that performance yesterday??

Yoy only need to look back at some of the match day threads and you’ll get your answer. Phrases such as eye bleeding are used a lot.

It’s got to the stage were I’ve actually switched off. The club as a whole bores the life out me these days I’m sad to say.

We,ve been classed as boy band for a very very long time and yet the main culprits never seem to leave.

Ive been watching the same defenders who have been responsible for some of our biggest humiliations and yet they seem to be a main stay at our club.

You reap what you sow as they say.

What really upsets me though is the fact we aren’t comfortable on the ball. Some of our players couldn’t trap a fish supper. It’s beyond embarrassing.

[greenpaper55]

I think Ross would make a good manager at the likes of Falkirk in a lower division, clearly not up to it tactically at SPL level. He also allowed the press access to the players days before the game-bigging up Doig for Arsenal and his talk of a hotline to Brendan Rodger etc and all the while St J were playing the poor me card due to Covid so it was going to be easy wasn't it ! Utter garbage management.

[.Sean.]

As much as I’ve never properly taken to JR yesterday is on the players. If you can’t get yourself up for a cup final once you step on the park what chance have you got. At least it looks like they had an enjoyable night afterwards unlike us the absolute *****bags

[Stuart93]

I’m amazed that some people can’t see what is staring us in the face. Ross ****ed it before we had even kicked a ball.

I’m feeling even more disillusioned in the cold light of day than I did yesterday.

I’ve woke up feeling the same to be honest.

Watching his post match interview has pissed me off a lot.

Quoting “fine margins” and saying the team gave it their all? Is the guy ****ing deluded?

My prediction, the league will be a lot more competitive next season and he’ll be out of a job by Christmas.

[easty]

As much as I’ve never properly taken to JR yesterday is on the players. If you can’t get yourself up for a cup final once you step on the park what chance have you got. At least it looks like they had an enjoyable night afterwards unlike us the absolute *****bags

Absolutely the players fault.

I don’t think JR set us up right, but when the players go out on the park they still need to do their job, they still need to have desire, they have to have some ****ing professional pride. They strolled through that game like it didn’t matter, as if it was the final league game of the season when it couldn’t affect their league position.

[calumhibee1]

I’ve woke up feeling the same to be honest.

Watching his post match interview has pissed me off a lot.

Quoting “fine margins” and saying the team gave it their all? Is the guy ****ing deluded?

My prediction, the league will be a lot more competitive next season and he’ll be out of a job by Christmas.

The league will definitely be better next season I reckon and I’d be surprised if we pick up as many points. I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest to see us floating around mid table.

[MWHIBBIES]

As much as I’ve never properly taken to JR yesterday is on the players. If you can’t get yourself up for a cup final once you step on the park what chance have you got. At least it looks like they had an enjoyable night afterwards unlike us the absolute *****bags

I'd agree if it was a one off. You don't lose 3 times in a row, in identical games, to the same side, without blaming the manager.

I'd say the semi final wasn't Ross' fault, He got it right and we should've been 2 up. And individual errors cost us. Since then, we've been dumped on by Saints and Davidson.

[superfurryhibby]

As much as I’ve never properly taken to JR yesterday is on the players. If you can’t get yourself up for a cup final once you step on the park what chance have you got. At least it looks like they had an enjoyable night afterwards unlike us the absolute *****bags

Tactics were wrong. The manager refused to change the shape. That is down to Ross.

If you are hamstrung by poor management what chance do you have?

The players were appalling yesterday, but they were a rudderless ship. That’s down to the man at the helm.

[madhatter]

As much as I’ve never properly taken to JR yesterday is on the players. If you can’t get yourself up for a cup final once you step on the park what chance have you got. At least it looks like they had an enjoyable night afterwards unlike us the absolute *****bags

Jack Ross has the players’ backs though and he picked the same system and resorted to the same things that hasn’t worked against them 4 times even when they’ve rotated their squad. I’d be interested to know what would cause Jack Ross to slate his players.

Guts for Europe. Setting us up for more easy mocking. Absolutely nothing to back up that this squad he wants to keep together would do well in Europe. They fall apart against St Johnstone…

[Since452]

I think Ross would make a good manager at the likes of Falkirk in a lower division, clearly not up to it tactically at SPL level. He also allowed the press access to the players days before the game-bigging up Doig for Arsenal and his talk of a hotline to Brendan Rodger etc and all the while St J were playing the poor me card due to Covid so it was going to be easy wasn't it ! Utter garbage management.

It's difficult to agree with that when he's just finished 3rd at Premiership level and got us to a final and a semi. The players need to take some responsibility for yesterday

[Robbo6-2]

Proud of the players.

Apart from the Goalkeeper I dont think any fan would say they were proud of the players after that performance and lack of effort.

Never mind the photos surfacing of the players on the sauce after the game. Just as bad if not worse as Docherty going shopping after the 5 1 game.

We have went back the way again in terms of bringing in coaches and players who get what it is to play for the club.

[Gatecrasher]

I'd agree if it was a one off. You don't lose 3 times in a row, in identical games, to the same side, without blaming the manager.

I'd say the semi final wasn't Ross' fault, He got it right and we should've been 2 up. And individual errors cost us. Since then, we've been dumped on by Saints and Davidson.

:agree: yesterday was a rerun when we got beat by their reserves at ER. How JR didn't adapt to what was coming is criminal. It was so predictable. I do however believe the players are equally responsible.

[calumhibee1]

Proud of the players.

Apart from the Goalkeeper I dont think any fan would say they were proud of the players after that performance and lack of effort.

Never mind the photos surfacing of the players on the sauce after the game. Just as bad if not worse as Docherty going shopping after the 5 1 game.

We have went back the way again in terms of bringing in coaches and players who get what it is to play for the club.

Agree with your last bit.

Look at the club in 2016 and then look at it now. Not an ounce of passion for the club anymore, something which 2016 had in abundance.

I watched Time for Heroes and the love for the club from these players really shines through. I certainly can’t imagine that being the case if something similar was made with this squad.

[Robbo6-2]

Agree with your last bit.

Look at the club in 2016 and then look at it now. Not an ounce of passion for the club anymore, something which 2016 had in abundance.

I watched Time for Heroes and the love for the club from these players really shines through. I certainly can’t imagine that being the case if something similar was made with this squad.

We have just brought in Liam Fox to our first team coaching staff. A bigger Hearts fan you could not get. He grew up playing with Hearts since he was 10/11 and played with their first team. WTF is going on there. It's on par with bringing in Brown.

Yes he may be a good coach but can you ever see Hearts bringing in ex Hibs players and fans?

Leeann changed the mentality of the club and it looks like we are going backwards again

[madhatter]

We have just brought in Liam Fox to our first team coaching staff. A bigger Hearts fan you could not get. He grew up playing with Hearts since he was 10/11 and played with their first team. WTF is going on there. It's on par with bringing in Brown.

Yes he may be a good coach but can you ever see Hearts bringing in ex Hibs players and fans?

Leeann changed the mentality of the club and it looks like we are going backwards again

Shame we lost Beuzelin as well. Seems to have good reputation.

People don’t see it but club are doing exactly what they said they were trying to avoid. Manager bringing his own players and staff in so should he need moved on it’s a full rebuild.

We have McGinn (x2), Magennis, Samson, Potter, Liam Fox, kit man.

[Stuart93]

Don’t want him sacked but not arsed in the slightest if he was to resign or move on elsewhere

[Iain G]

Don’t want him sacked but not arsed in the slightest if he was to resign or move on elsewhere

Spurs could do with another manager who doesn't win things 😉

[Jim44]

We have just brought in Liam Fox to our first team coaching staff. A bigger Hearts fan you could not get. He grew up playing with Hearts since he was 10/11 and played with their first team. WTF is going on there. [B]It's on par with bringing in Brown.[B]

Yes he may be a good coach but can you ever see Hearts bringing in ex Hibs players and fans?

Leeann changed the mentality of the club and it looks like we are going backwards again

I’ve got to say that my first reaction was to make the same connection, but maybe we should be a bit more open minded. Yesterday’s debacle and the hiring of a Hearts supporting coach worries me.

[Hermit Crab]

If we get horsed out he Euro qualifiers by some random team we've never heard of then he'll have to go. We need to reach the group stages of that comp.

[Iain G]

I’ve got to say that my first reaction was to make the same connection, but maybe we should be a bit more open minded. Yesterday’s debacle and the hiring of a Hearts supporting coach worries me.

But is he a good coach? It's a bit small minded and parochial to write him off for being a Jambo, maybe he is exactly what we need?

[660]

If we get horsed out he Euro qualifiers by some random team we've never heard of then he'll have to go. We need to reach the group stages of that comp.

Welcome back

[mcfly]

We were 90 minutes away from one of our greatest ever seasons. Disappointed? Absolutely. Angry? No. Some people have to accept St Johnstone are a very good team now with superb form since October and a cup double to their name which is not luck (including knocking out an Invincibles Sevco on their way). It was always going to be 50/50.

We dust ourselves down and move on. Ross is the man to lead us.

Maybe in your opinion he is. Not for me.

His team bottled it at hampden 3 times this season. He learnt nothing from the prev st Johnstone defeats.

Awful awful stuff. Then you see the players out drinking and laughing.

Wish they’d shown that passion and energy on the pitch.

[Jim44]

But is he a good coach? It's a bit small minded and parochial to write him off for being a Jambo, maybe he is exactly what we need?

Maybe. I hope you’re right.

[Iain G]

Maybe. I hope you’re right.

Me too 😁

Trying to find some positives and look beyond the meek capitulation and lack of game plan or nous our manager and team showed yesterday!

[GreenCastle]

We have just brought in Liam Fox to our first team coaching staff. A bigger Hearts fan you could not get. He grew up playing with Hearts since he was 10/11 and played with their first team. WTF is going on there. It's on par with bringing in Brown.

Yes he may be a good coach but can you ever see Hearts bringing in ex Hibs players and fans?

Leeann changed the mentality of the club and it looks like we are going backwards again

I can’t believe we have added Liam Fox. As you say massive Jambo and your telling me he won’t leak information to Hearts friends ??!

Also he was part of the mess at Hearts for years with Daly and a few others under Levein.

He’s basically a mate of Jack Ross hence why he’s getting a job.

Fast forward to this time next season...

Will Hibs come 3rd ?
Will Hibs win Derbies ?
Will Hibs beat Aberdeen ?
Will Hibs take points off / beat the Old Firm?
Will we reach another Scottish Cup Final / semi finals ?
How will the European games go?

What I’m trying to get at is this season overall many of us would take that again...but would we really? Getting beat in the final again to a team we should do better against?

I feel he’s up against it as he’s nearly over achieved this season and next season it’s going to be very hard to hit the same heights. That’s not me writing him off but losing that final has really affected his credit in the bank and he needs to start the season strong and win the first derby or he’s really going to be up against it.

[Phil MaGlass]

Ah hardly slept a wink last nite, had tae go tae work aswell, I have become even more angrier than yesterday, thats doon tae Jack f,n Ross no bein able tae change his game or get his team up for the biggest game of the year, get him tae f,k. Just get him tae fk, the whole season he has been unable tae get them up for the games that matter except the last Dons game. Just get tae f,k. Ahm f,n ragin. Been a bad enough 16-18 months, I could have handled it had we put in an effort but havin tae go through that yesterday, enough is enough just f,n go Ross. :grr::grr::fuming::fuming:

[blackpoolhibs]

Well it turns out he was only one defeat away from the Ross out campaign to get going again. :faf:

[Hermit Crab]

Well it turns out he was only one defeat away from the Ross out campaign to get going again. :faf:


It was a more than winnable cup final. Team shat it and never turned up. JR has to take the blame for the horrendous tactics.

6-0 agg scoreline v St J in our last 4 games.

JR has learned nothing and was tucked away yet again.

We won't win anything under him.

3 chances to win a trophy all blown due to his poor team selection and tactics.

3 Hampden defeats in 8 months. New club record?

[matty_f]

Well it turns out he was only one defeat away from the Ross out campaign to get going again. :faf:

You’re imagining it.

[jeffers]

Well it turns out he was only one defeat away from the Ross out campaign to get going again. :faf:

It’s not the defeat as such, I’ve watched Hibs long enough to expect these results. It was the manner of the defeat that has posters like me who are questioning him. He’s learned absolutely nothing in previous games against St Johnstone. I question anyone who didn’t see that happening yesterday, we go a goal behind to them and it’s game over.

[madhatter]

Well it turns out he was only one defeat away from the Ross out campaign to get going again. :faf:

Has he appealed or looked to bond with the fans? No, he is always protecting and bonding with the players.

We can clearly see players did nothing pride-worthy in the match yesterday and he said he was proud.

Club have many empty words for the fans. If players and staff are to get leniency for a end of season shindig curing Covid times after an embarrassing display in a SC final, when is the massive party for the fans? The ones that have kept the club going during Covid. They'll have their player awards party next week as well...no doubt when everyone will talk about how proud they are of each other while fans (without season tickets) pay £5.99 for the pleasure of a stream.

Club are losing touch with fans. You can find the "Ross out campaign" funny but the way the club are going we're going to lose ST numbers. Genuinely think people would prefer a mid-table mediocre Hibs without 4-6k fans turning up.

That loss alone will probably see ST sales target drop 1-2k. Even before we talk about some of the performances - inability to deal with hoof ball and our inability to break down teams when Boyle is marked, injured or off-form.

[Wheat Hound]

It’s not the defeat as such, I’ve watched Hibs long enough to expect these results. It was the manner of the defeat that has posters like me who are questioning him. He’s learned absolutely nothing in previous games against St Johnstone. I question anyone who didn’t see that happening yesterday, we go a goal behind to them and it’s game over.

Absolutely this

[Hermit Crab]

Has he appealed or looked to bond with the fans? No, he is always protecting and bonding with the players.

We can clearly see players did nothing pride-worthy in the match yesterday and he said he was proud.

Club have many empty words for the fans. If players and staff are to get leniency for a end of season shindig curing Covid times after an embarrassing display in a SC final, when is the massive party for the fans? The ones that have kept the club going during Covid. They'll have their player awards party next week as well...no doubt when everyone will talk about how proud they are of each other while fans (without season tickets) pay £5.99 for the pleasure of a stream.

Club are losing touch with fans. You can find the "Ross out campaign" funny but the way the club are going we're going to lose ST numbers. Genuinely think people would prefer a mid-table mediocre Hibs without 4-6k fans turning up.

That loss alone will probably see ST sales target drop 1-2k. Even before we talk about some of the performances - inability to deal with hoof ball and our inability to break down teams when Boyle is marked, injured or off-form.


Yeah, that result yesterday will have a massive impact on ST sales, they will slow to a crawl now we have lost that final. Its lucky Hibs have sold 7 already.

[SaulGoodman]

. Genuinely think people would prefer a mid-table mediocre Hibs without 4-6k fans turning up. .

Name one person?

[green day]

It’s not the defeat as such, I’ve watched Hibs long enough to expect these results. It was the manner of the defeat that has posters like me who are questioning him. He’s learned absolutely nothing in previous games against St Johnstone. I question anyone who didn’t see that happening yesterday, we go a goal behind to them and it’s game over.

Agreed.

As soon as it happened, two of our lot in the pub said "game over".

This team doesn't do well unless they score first. And as is mentioned elsewhere, if our front three don't score, the midfield contributes nothing.

[madhatter]

Name one person?


See below:


this thread epitomised everything wrong with our support. as i've said on here before, it's this crap that has prompted managers to use us against our own team, knowing that we'll turn on our players if they frustrate us long enough.

anyone who is not drunk but genuinely thinks that sacking Ross is a sensible idea is a deluded moron, who's 'support' would be much better suited to those across the city. i really hope those who feel this way take it upon themselves to stop coming to ER, because they are utterly counter productive, and detract from our club.

in short, go away. :aok:

[blackpoolhibs]

It’s not the defeat as such, I’ve watched Hibs long enough to expect these results. It was the manner of the defeat that has posters like me who are questioning him. He’s learned absolutely nothing in previous games against St Johnstone. I question anyone who didn’t see that happening yesterday, we go a goal behind to them and it’s game over.

Hibs were sheite, we all saw that, the manager did not tell them to play that way, they were just crap. I would have had a different lineup, but that selection of players were in the main hopeless, and whatever formation we'd set up would in my opinion ended up similar.

St Johnstone set up to stifle and hit on the break, our main men who have scored the majority of our goals never received any supply, as our midfield were hopeless and ponderous.

Very difficult to hit teams on the break who sit in, especially when we do not move the ball forward nearly quick enough.

You can blame the manager if you like, but having so many players not turn up is always going to make the game difficult to win.

[jeffers]

Agreed.

As soon as it happened, two of our lot in the pub said "game over".

This team doesn't do well unless they score first. And as is mentioned elsewhere, if our front three don't score, the midfield contributes nothing.

And it’s happened all season mate, what is it, one game where we’ve gone behind and gone on to win ? It says to me Plan A when it works is good, but we’ve no Plan B. I get why some think he deserves credit for finishing 3rd and I’m of the opinion you finish in the league where you deserve to be, but surely even Ross’ biggest advocates must have some doubts over him ?

[BoomtownHibees]

Hibs were sheite, we all saw that, the manager did not tell them to play that way, they were just crap. I would have had a different lineup, but that selection of players were in the main hopeless, and whatever formation we'd set up would in my opinion ended up similar.

St Johnstone set up to stifle and hit on the break, our main men who have scored the majority of our goals never received any supply, as our midfield were hopeless and ponderous.

Very difficult to hit teams on the break who sit in, especially when we do not move the ball forward nearly quick enough.

You can blame the manager if you like, but having so many players not turn up is always going to make the game difficult to win.

But it didn’t really come as a surprise did it? We setup to play exactly the same way as we have in the previous games against them when we haven’t managed to score a goal. A wee bit imagination in tactics may have helped.

[heid the baw]

We have just brought in Liam Fox to our first team coaching staff. A bigger Hearts fan you could not get. He grew up playing with Hearts since he was 10/11 and played with their first team. WTF is going on there. It's on par with bringing in Brown.

Yes he may be a good coach but can you ever see Hearts bringing in ex Hibs players and fans?

Leeann changed the mentality of the club and it looks like we are going backwards again

Sadly I have to agree. You need staff who are invested in the club, not people who are steeped in the tradition of your rivals. I get that these are professional appointments but if you can combine decent coaching pedigree with a sense of pride and passion, then that has to be of more value.
Jack Ross is a capable manager and 3rd shows that, but we need more passion, otherwise we will start backsliding
again. Leanne did change the culture for the better, no doubt

[blackpoolhibs]

But it didn’t really come as a surprise did it? We setup to play exactly the same way as we have in the previous games against them when we haven’t managed to score a goal. A wee bit imagination in tactics may have helped.

What would you have done?

[green day]

And it’s happened all season mate, what is it, one game where we’ve gone behind and gone on to win ? It says to me Plan A when it works is good, but we’ve no Plan B. I get why some think he deserves credit for finishing 3rd and I’m of the opinion you finish in the league where you deserve to be, but surely even Ross’ biggest advocates must have some doubts over him ?
I agree on the league stuff, and on the face of it it seems ridic to even be discussing him being binned.

But he has been outmanoeuvred several times by the same club this season......and has not been able to come up with anything different.

If asked our best available 11, that one yesterday was good. But the best starting 11 for St Johnstone? Not in a million.

[hibsbollah]

Hibs were sheite, we all saw that, the manager did not tell them to play that way, they were just crap. I would have had a different lineup, but that selection of players were in the main hopeless, and whatever formation we'd set up would in my opinion ended up similar.

St Johnstone set up to stifle and hit on the break, our main men who have scored the majority of our goals never received any supply, as our midfield were hopeless and ponderous.

Very difficult to hit teams on the break who sit in, especially when we do not move the ball forward nearly quick enough.

You can blame the manager if you like, but having so many players not turn up is always going to make the game difficult to win.

The blame is collective. It doesn’t make sense to say it’s all the players or it’s ‘100% the managers fault’, they both failed abysmally. We lost hundreds of thousands from that result, players reputations and price tags will be affected as well.

I also feel a bit sorry for Ross because he just has a bit of a sleekit coupon. He looks like a villain. I honestly think some folk find him hard to take to because of that. The cardigan too.

[BoomtownHibees]

What would you have done?

Personally I would have maybe went 3 at the back, McGregor would have played. Would have given us 3 in the middle of the park to match them up. My midfield 3 would have been Gogic, Irvine and Hallberg.

We may still have lost the game, of course, however just something a little different to previous games. In saying that, if the 11 on the park played with the same attitude as they did yesterday then it prob wouldn’t have made much of a difference

[easty]

What would you have done?

In hindsight, 3 at the back, with Boyle and Doig at wing backs would probably have been better. Natural width, as opposed to plugging in just anyone out on the left. Boyle picking the ball up a bit deeper, with more space, I doubt they’d have put 3/4 men around him that high up the park.

It might have made absolutely no difference though, attitude wasn’t right from the start, and a different formation wouldn’t have changed that

[Hibrandenburg]

If we'd have been pumped out the cup by rangers or celtic in the first rounds and finished 3rd in the league, most people would rightly be considering this season a success and looking forward to build on that next season. I get the emotional backlash from losing a cup final, but once you take the emotion out of the equation, then it was a fairly decent season for Hibs. Some folks need to take a reality check.

[blackpoolhibs]

The blame is collective. It doesn’t make sense to say it’s all the players or it’s ‘100% the managers fault’, they both failed abysmally. We lost hundreds of thousands from that result, players reputations and price tags will be affected as well.

I also feel a bit sorry for Ross because he just has a bit of a sleekit coupon. He looks like a villain. I honestly think some folk find him hard to take to because of that. The cardigan too.

I agree there, although when the players cross the line there is little the manager can do. Once again we failed to beat a solid defence, that shuts down space.

That is down to the players.

[The dalmeny]

We have just brought in Liam Fox to our first team coaching staff. A bigger Hearts fan you could not get. He grew up playing with Hearts since he was 10/11 and played with their first team. WTF is going on there. It's on par with bringing in Brown.

Yes he may be a good coach but can you ever see Hearts bringing in ex Hibs players and fans?

Leeann changed the mentality of the club and it looks like we are going backwards again

aye mate, he’s a not so secret agent :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

Personally I would have maybe went 3 at the back, McGregor would have played. Would have given us 3 in the middle of the park to match them up. My midfield 3 would have been Gogic, Irvine and Hallberg.

We may still have lost the game, of course, however just something a little different to previous games. In saying that, if the 11 on the park played with the same attitude as they did yesterday then it prob wouldn’t have made much of a difference


In hindsight, 3 at the back, with Boyle and Doig at wing backs would probably have been better. Natural width, as opposed to plugging in just anyone out on the left. Boyle picking the ball up a bit deeper, with more space, I doubt they’d have put 3/4 men around him that high up the park.

It might have made absolutely no difference though, attitude wasn’t right from the start, and a different formation wouldn’t have changed that

That is exactly where i am. :agree:

[jeffers]

Hibs were sheite, we all saw that, the manager did not tell them to play that way, they were just crap. I would have had a different lineup, but that selection of players were in the main hopeless, and whatever formation we'd set up would in my opinion ended up similar.

St Johnstone set up to stifle and hit on the break, our main men who have scored the majority of our goals never received any supply, as our midfield were hopeless and ponderous.

Very difficult to hit teams on the break who sit in, especially when we do not move the ball forward nearly quick enough.

You can blame the manager if you like, but having so many players not turn up is always going to make the game difficult to win.

Absolutely they were, but then they were in previous games against them and he did nothing to effect that. Is it arrogance on his part that he thinks he doesn’t need to change tactics/formation ‘cos we finished above them in the league ?

Personally I’d have matched up against them, played Daz from the start, dropped the ponderous Newell and sacrificed one of the front three for Murphy and stuck Irvine more centrally. Maybe it wouldn’t have made any difference but at least he would have tried something as it was yesterday’s formation and ultimately result was all too predictable.

[green day]

In hindsight, 3 at the back, with Boyle and Doig at wing backs would probably have been better. Natural width, as opposed to plugging in just anyone out on the left. Boyle picking the ball up a bit deeper, with more space, I doubt they’d have put 3/4 men around him that high up the park.

It might have made absolutely no difference though, attitude wasn’t right from the start, and a different formation wouldn’t have changed that

This is why I think Ross is in bother. He had 4 games v St J to come up with what you did in 5 minutes.

That he couldn't or wouldn't make those tactical changes means that - for me - he ihas been found out and we will just get the same next season with some slightly different players.

[hibsbollah]

I agree there, although when the players cross the line there is little the manager can do. Once again we failed to beat a solid defence, that shuts down space.

That is down to the players.

The high balls into the box for the last twenty minutes was a case in point. Did Ross instruct them to do that? I think he must have. But if you’re Jamie Murphy or Boyle and the St Johnstone defence has just beaten Doidge in the area for the 6th time in a row, you have to say, Naw, I’m going to play it in short to Nisbet here and run past him. Or say, Naw, I’m going to back myself to run to the byline and cut it back instead of all this pub team crap. But nobody on the pitch did that. These players are experienced pros who should know how to adapt to circumstances. So yeah you have a point.

[blackpoolhibs]

Absolutely they were, but then they were in previous games against them and he did nothing to effect that. Is it arrogance on his part that he thinks he doesn’t need to change tactics/formation ‘cos we finished above them in the league ?

Personally I’d have matched up against them, played Daz from the start, dropped the ponderous Newell and sacrificed one of the front three for Murphy and stuck Irvine more centrally. Maybe it wouldn’t have made any difference but at least he would have tried something as it was yesterday’s formation and ultimately result was all too predictable.

I'd have played Daz, i'd have played Halberg instead of Newell, and i can see why you would play Murphy too, but for me the players must take the criticism, as they were poor, very poor, and i have no idea if we would have been any better or even worse if we'd played the players we both wanted to start.

[Hibiza]

The 2 semi final failures and this are probably the worst games I've ever watched . Unfortunately take a while to forget , if ever.

[SaulGoodman]

See below:

Hmm fair enough :greengrin

[chippy]

Would we have performed better yesterday if either Alan Stubbs or Neil Lennon had been in charge ?

[MWHIBBIES]

I agree there, although when the players cross the line there is little the manager can do. Once again we failed to beat a solid defence, that shuts down space.

That is down to the players.

Maybe once it's down to players. By the 4th time, the tactics are clearly the issue. What was his plan to score yesterday?

[Alfred E Newman]

If we'd have been pumped out the cup by rangers or celtic in the first rounds and finished 3rd in the league, most people would rightly be considering this season a success and looking forward to build on that next season. I get the emotional backlash from losing a cup final, but once you take the emotion out of the equation, then it was a fairly decent season for Hibs. Some folks need to take a reality check.

The reality is that, by luck of the draw, we were in a great position to lift both cups. Unfortunately we were not good enough to get past mighty St Johnstone each time. Add the semi defeat to championship Hearts in December and you can understand why large numbers of the support are not happy.

[jeffers]

I'd have played Daz, i'd have played Halberg instead of Newell, and i can see why you would play Murphy too, but for me the players must take the criticism, as they were poor, very poor, and i have no idea if we would have been any better or even worse if we'd played the players we both wanted to start.

They were poor, but what were their instructions ? When the formation wasn’t working what did he do to effect that ? It was St Johnstone we were playing, ffs St Mirren gave them a much harder game in the semi than we managed yesterday.

Ultimately it’s Ross’ team. He may not have signed them all, but it’s his team nonetheless. If he hasn’t got character in that side that can’t get up for a cup final who is to blame for that ?

[Silky]

This is why I think Ross is in bother. He had 4 games v St J to come up with what you did in 5 minutes.

That he couldn't or wouldn't make those tactical changes means that - for me - he ihas been found out and we will just get the same next season with some slightly different players.

I think we'd get the same next season with a slightly different manager. As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, if the 11 on the park don't have the attitude, then Klopp, Guardiola or whoever can't do anything about it.

[raeburnhibs]

This is why I think Ross is in bother. He had 4 games v St J to come up with what you did in 5 minutes.

That he couldn't or wouldn't make those tactical changes means that - for me - he ihas been found out and we will just get the same next season with some slightly different players.

I'm sure he would have considered different systems. The issue is why he chose to stick with what hadn't worked previously. I suspect he is risk averse and chose to play the percentages, as in, maybe they won't score a header against us this time, maybe we will stop the crosses and maybe asking the players tp play a different system is problematic. I think the best coaches should be able to mix it up

[Silky]

The reality is that, by luck of the draw, we were in a great position to lift both cups. Unfortunately we were not good enough to get past mighty St Johnstone each time. Add the semi defeat to championship Hearts in December and you can understand why large numbers of the support are not happy.

Who do we want in then? Who do we know for a fa t will build on this season. We want progress, so what is that? Winning a cup, finishing second? Cos any new manager will be judged on what's gone before and finishing outside the top three would, in my book be a failure and, ultimately, sackable.

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe once it's down to players. By the 4th time, the tactics are clearly the issue. What was his plan to score yesterday?

I have no idea, i was not in the changing room before the game? I'm pretty sure a manager even at Hibs level will have a plan for the game, and then the players will go out and try and implement it.

The games we lose they invariably fail to do so.

[MWHIBBIES]

I have no idea, i was not in the changing room before the game? I'm pretty sure a manager even at Hibs level will have a plan for the game, and then the players will go out and try and implement it.

The games we lose they invariably fail to do so.
Surely after 4 times it's the plan that's the issue? Unless you think 4 times the players have ignored him against the same team?

[matty_f]

Surely after 4 times it's the plan that's the issue? Unless you think 4 times the players have ignored him against the same team?

We’ve not done the same thing against them 4 times though. Be it variances in team selection or formation, we’ve changed things.

Jack Ross isn’t blameless for yesterday, far from it, but he’ll know just how much the players let him down when they crossed the line. All the tactical genius in the world won’t overcome players hiding, or repeatedly not stepping up to the plate.

[JohnM1875]

If we'd have been pumped out the cup by rangers or celtic in the first rounds and finished 3rd in the league, most people would rightly be considering this season a success and looking forward to build on that next season. I get the emotional backlash from losing a cup final, but once you take the emotion out of the equation, then it was a fairly decent season for Hibs. Some folks need to take a reality check.

It's an utterly redundant point though. We didn't get put out any cup by the old firm. We got put out by Hearts who had barely played any competitive football and St Johnstone twice.

We finished third for the first time in about 15 years. And of course that deserves praise. But it's equally fair to criticse the outcome of the cups. Particularly the two for this season

[Unseen work]

To say we’ve played the exact same against them every time is just wrong.

Like it or not they’re just a very good team right now, especially defensively and as a team that relies on its attacking players we struggled.

That said if Irvine scores his sitter yesterday and Murphy in the semi final it’s 2 completely different games and all of a sudden Ross is a genius.

[cabbageandribs1875]

wonder which St Mirren players/backroom staff we will be signing this summer

[MWHIBBIES]

We’ve not done the same thing against them 4 times though. Be it variances in team selection or formation, we’ve changed things.

Jack Ross isn’t blameless for yesterday, far from it, but he’ll know just how much the players let him down when they crossed the line. All the tactical genius in the world won’t overcome players hiding, or repeatedly not stepping up to the plate.

Slight changes to the team less, but aimless crosses have been the tactic for the last 3. There was very little difference between yesterday and the 2 previous games. Certainly no clear change in our approach.

[I'm Spartacus]

What a thread, total kneejerk IMO. He has steadied the ship and taken us to 3rd, the cup was going to be a huge unexpected bonus for me. Total respect to St J, they've a great manager.

[matty_f]

Slight changes to the team less, but aimless crosses have been the tactic for the last 3. There was very little difference between yesterday and the 2 previous games. Certainly no clear change in our approach.

The aimless crosses aren’t tactical, that’s the players lacking the nous to do something better.

[PolmontHibby]

I was pleased when I saw the formation, sticking with recent 4 at the back compared to the 3 at back I think was played when beaten all three times previously against St J seemed the right decision to me.

But it still didn't work - whether that was because of the players attitude or just St J being on a bloody good run for last 5 or 6 months I am not sure.....probably a bit of both though I think players attitude seemed wrong from the start.

As for Jack, getting 3rd in first full season is plenty good enough for me - I support him being allowed to change squad during summer.

[BoomtownHibees]

We’ve not done the same thing against them 4 times though. Be it variances in team selection or formation, we’ve changed things.

Jack Ross isn’t blameless for yesterday, far from it, but he’ll know just how much the players let him down when they crossed the line. All the tactical genius in the world won’t overcome players hiding, or repeatedly not stepping up to the plate.

In the game at ER a couple of weeks ago, we played a 442, same as yesterday, Irvine off the left. Only differences in lineups were Rocky playing plus Drey Wright playing on the right with Boyle up front, a forced change with Nisbet missing. That to me isn’t “changing things”.

[blackpoolhibs]

Surely after 4 times it's the plan that's the issue? Unless you think 4 times the players have ignored him against the same team?

Was it the lack of us taking our chance in the Last semi against them or the tactics being wrong? Was Ross`s tactics to tell Porteous to play the ball across the box setting up the only goal of the game? The players have beaten most teams this season, but they have had the odd game where they look like they have never seen each other before. I'm pretty sure they would be well set up before these games, who knows why they let us down in these games????

[The Modfather]

We’ve not done the same thing against them 4 times though. Be it variances in team selection or formation, we’ve changed things.

Jack Ross isn’t blameless for yesterday, far from it, but he’ll know just how much the players let him down when they crossed the line. All the tactical genius in the world won’t overcome players hiding, or repeatedly not stepping up to the plate.


To say we’ve played the exact same against them every time is just wrong.

Like it or not they’re just a very good team right now, especially defensively and as a team that relies on its attacking players we struggled.

That said if Irvine scores his sitter yesterday and Murphy in the semi final it’s 2 completely different games and all of a sudden Ross is a genius.

What were the different formations, tactics, approach etc that we’ve played in different games against them? Genuine question as my initial reaction is that I can’t see what’s different. The lopsided 442, with slow, rigid build up and eventually long balls that the St Johnstone centrebacks thrive on is what I feel I’ve seen in most games against them this season.

[MWHIBBIES]

Was it the lack of us taking our chance in the Last semi against them or the tactics being wrong? Was Ross`s tactics to tell Porteous to play the ball across the box setting up the only goal of the game? The players have beaten most teams this season, but they have had the odd game where they look like they have never seen each other before. I'm pretty sure they would be well set up before these games, who knows why they let us down in these games????

So what was the plan to score a goal, though?

Semi final maybe, we did look good for 25 minutes or so.

The three 1-0 losses since we've been terrible. One team was well set-up in those games, and it wasn't Hibs.

The whole lot let us down, players and management.

[MWHIBBIES]

The aimless crosses aren’t tactical, that’s the players lacking the nous to do something better.

Surely they can be coached to do something better, we have in other games?

[BoomtownHibees]

What were the different formations, tactics, approach etc that we’ve played in different games against them? Genuine question as my initial reaction is that I can’t see what’s different. The lopsided 442, with slow, rigid build up and eventually long balls that the St Johnstone centrebacks thrive on is what I feel I’ve seen in most games against them this season.

We did play a more “natural” 442 in the semi against them. Cadden one side, Murphy the other. Gogic and Irvine in the middle. Boyle and Nisbet up front. Obviously the team started that game a lot more with higher intensity and if we had scored when on top would have most likely went on to win the game. We all know what happened after we lost the first goal

[Hibrandenburg]

The reality is that, by luck of the draw, we were in a great position to lift both cups. Unfortunately we were not good enough to get past mighty St Johnstone each time. Add the semi defeat to championship Hearts in December and you can understand why large numbers of the support are not happy.

Ask any Hibs fan with both feet in the real world at the start of the season if they'd be happy with 3rd place and decent runs in the cup, they'd have said yes yes yes.

[BoomtownHibees]

Ask any Hibs fan with both feet in the real world at the start of the season if they'd be happy with 3rd place and decent runs in the cup, they'd have said yes yes yes.

Of course they would. I don’t think any Hibs fan would be disappointed in that. However you need to then add some context to what became possibilities and that then changes the whole narrative (for some, not all)

[Fergos]

The issue is a collective one from yesterday, few, if any escape from criticism and rightfully so.

Poor creatively, and we have been for a few seasons now if Boyle doesn’t perform and the issues are not just going forward. In the first 5 minutes of yesterday’s game, St Johnstone looked for Rooney with a high diagonal ball. One of the CBs should have been picking him up at crosses. Spooney kept McGinns outball quiet and we had no response for this either. They closed us down on the flanks as they knew we were poor at creating anything from the middle 3.

Poor tactically, poor performances and the outcome is as yesterday. A collective failure.

[JohnM1875]

Of course they would. I don’t think any Hibs fan would be disappointed in that. However you need to then add some context to what became possibilities and that then changes the whole narrative (for some, not all)

Absolutely 100% right.

[madhatter]

The aimless crosses aren’t tactical, that’s the players lacking the nous to do something better.

Why are they being recruited by Hibs then?

We give St Johnstone credit for winning the double but don't go as far as saying they have a better defence and midfield than us. Players able to that something better in these cup games.

We've got an overrated squad. Whether that is the managers fault, players arrogance or coaching and recruitment team I don't know.

[matty_f]

In the game at ER a couple of weeks ago, we played a 442, same as yesterday, Irvine off the left. Only differences in lineups were Rocky playing plus Drey Wright playing on the right with Boyle up front, a forced change with Nisbet missing. That to me isn’t “changing things”.

I agree, if we ignore the things that are different then he’s done exactly the same thing.

[matty_f]

Surely they can be coached to do something better, we have in other games?

If they’re already evidencing that they’re able to do it, as you suggest, then coaching isn’t the issue.

[JohnM1875]

Why are they being recruited by Hibs then?

We give St Johnstone credit for winning the double but don't go as far as saying they have a better defence and midfield than us. Players able to that something better in these cup games.

We've got an overrated squad. Whether that is the managers fault, players arrogance or coaching and recruitment team I don't know.

We do have an absolutely honking midfield when it comes to creativity. I like all three as players, and we've been crying out for legs in the middle since McGinn left. Think we've over compensated on that aspect now though and rely on our centre half's to try and make things happen the majority of the time.

The fact that Wotherspoon would walk into our midfield just now shows that.

[Hibs90]

Of course they would. I don’t think any Hibs fan would be disappointed in that. However you need to then add some context to what became possibilities and that then changes the whole narrative (for some, not all)

Correct

[BoomtownHibees]

I agree, if we ignore the things that are different then he’s done exactly the same thing.

He made one outfield change from a couple of weeks ago to yesterday. Shape was the same, intensity was the same, outcome was the same. If you want to consider that as him changing things or trying to do something different then crack on

[Lith]

I think the mentality we showed yesterday will have a detrimental effect on season ticket sales….

[MWHIBBIES]

If they’re already evidencing that they’re able to do it, as you suggest, then coaching isn’t the issue.

I disagree. We're able to do it against other sides, but losing 4 times with 0 goals suggests we're doing something wrong against St Johnstone.

Players were poor yesterday, especially Boyle and Nisbet, but Ross is as to blame as anyone.

Their manager has a plan, plays to their strengths and they win 2 cups that we were favourites for. There is no real defending Ross, without saying Davidson equally done nothing and its just up to the 22 players. Which is just not true.

[matty_f]

I disagree. We're able to do it against other sides, but losing 4 times with 0 goals suggests we're doing something wrong against St Johnstone.

Players were poor yesterday, especially Boyle and Nisbet, but Ross is as to blame as anyone.

Their manager has a plan, plays to their strengths and they win 2 cups that we were favourites for. There is no real defending Ross, without saying Davidson equally done nothing and its just up to the 22 players. Which is just not true.

They a collective responsibility, Ross is ultimately culpable because he’s the manager and the responsibility falls in him. His players let him down massively, i am amazed that’s even up for debate. There’s players going half-arsed into tackles, losing headers, 50/50s all game.

That’s not tactical.

[Iain G]

What were the different formations, tactics, approach etc that we’ve played in different games against them? Genuine question as my initial reaction is that I can’t see what’s different. The lopsided 442, with slow, rigid build up and eventually long balls that the St Johnstone centrebacks thrive on is what I feel I’ve seen in most games against them this season.

I said it earlier but we didn't challenge them, take our game plan to them and make them think or have to adapt. We played exactly how they thought we would. Today needed a plan A, B and C, and we got Plan Eh instead.

3-4-3

Drop Nisbet, Boyle and Murphy playing as high wingers in the space between centre backs and the wing backs and get our wide midfield/wing backs getting up to overlap and support, get the ball wide. McGinn or Hanlon step up into midfield when we have the ball and at least one of our midfield (Jackson) getting forward into the box to support Doidge?!?

Just do something bloody different!!

[BoomtownHibees]

I said it earlier but we didn't challenge them, take our game plan to them and make them think or have to adapt. We played exactly how they thought we would. Today needed a plan A, B and C, and we got Plan Eh instead.

3-4-3

Drop Nisbet, Boyle and Murphy playing as high wingers in the space between centre backs and the wing backs and get our wide midfield/wing backs getting up to overlap and support, get the ball wide. McGinn or Hanlon step up into midfield when we have the ball and at least one of our midfield (Jackson) getting forward into the box to support Doidge?!?

Just do something bloody different!!

That would take a bit imagination though. Something that’s clearly missing

[Saint Hibee]

The blame is collective. It doesn’t make sense to say it’s all the players or it’s ‘100% the managers fault’, they both failed abysmally. We lost hundreds of thousands from that result, players reputations and price tags will be affected as well.

I also feel a bit sorry for Ross because he just has a bit of a sleekit coupon. He looks like a villain. I honestly think some folk find him hard to take to because of that. The cardigan too.

Yep, he needs to leave the cardigan to the bungalow-dwelling Jamboids.

[Ómaigh-Hib]

Ask any Hibs fan with both feet in the real world at the start of the season if they'd be happy with 3rd place and decent runs in the cup, they'd have said yes yes yes.

Spot on, Best league finish in a long time; cup finalists; and playing in European competition next season.
What we do need now though is for the owner to back Jack Ross in the transfer market over the summer.

[MWHIBBIES]

They a collective responsibility, Ross is ultimately culpable because he’s the manager and the responsibility falls in him. His players let him down massively, i am amazed that’s even up for debate. There’s players going half-arsed into tackles, losing headers, 50/50s all game.

That’s not tactical.

You shouldn't be amazed people are asking questions of a manager who loses the same game 3 times without really changing anything.

He picks, trains, motivates and instructs the players. If they let him down, he still has to take blame for it.

[madhatter]

Spot on, Best league finish in a long time; cup finalists; and playing in European competition next season.
What we do need now though is for the owner to back Jack Ross in the transfer market over the summer.

With the financial impact of losing thousands of ST sales due to that cup final performance, should be easy.

[matty_f]

You shouldn't be amazed people are asking questions of a manager who loses the same game 3 times without really changing anything.

He picks, trains, motivates and instructs the players. If they let him down, he still has to take blame for it.

That’s not what I said I was amazed at.

[JohnM1875]

With the financial impact of losing thousands of ST sales due to that cup final performance, should be easy.

Actually infuriating eh?

We had the HSL drive earlier on in the season that was flying, got beat in the semi final then died on its arse.

Ron Gordon looking for record season ticket sales, off to a flyer and sold over 8000. Lost this final and no doubt season ticket sales will now take a hit.

Hibs man, so much potential but there's always something thag comes along to dent the momentum.

[Hibiza]

How can a team with all the back up we have , perform so p**h ?

[easty]

I think the mentality we showed yesterday will have a detrimental effect on season ticket sales….

It definitely will

[mcfly]

What a thread, total kneejerk IMO. He has steadied the ship and taken us to 3rd, the cup was going to be a huge unexpected bonus for me. Total respect to St J, they've a great manager.

Knee jerk??? What a load of rubbish...

you’re making a lot of finishing 3rd. But I know whose season I’d rather have had. St Johnstone wanted it more and their players and manager didn’t bottle it.

That hibs team need to take a good long look at themselves instead of posting selfie’s having champagne

[vahibbie]

Ask any Hibs fan with both feet in the real world at the start of the season if they'd be happy with 3rd place and decent runs in the cup, they'd have said yes yes yes.

Now ask any Hibs fan at the start of the season if they'd be happy abjectly losing a semi to Hearts and a semi and a final to St Johnstone. I can't recall any real stand out game that helped get us third but I will remember these miserable efforts at Hampden.

[JohnM1875]

Now ask any Hibs fan at the start of the season if they'd be happy abjectly losing a semi to Hearts and a semi and a final to St Johnstone. I can't recall any real stand out game that helped get us third but I will remember these miserable efforts at Hampden.

That's the main thing for me and does form my opinion of JR, rightly or wrongly.

Other than the 0-4 win away to Livi I can't think of any real stand out performances.

[MWHIBBIES]

That's the main thing for me and does form my opinion of JR, rightly or wrongly.

Other than the 0-4 win away to Livi I can't think of any real stand out performances.

Livi was a 4-1 win
3-0 at Motherwell
3-0 at St Mirren
4-0 at Hamilton
2 wins over Aberdeen
Draw with Rangers


Lets not pretend its all bad. Just the Hampden games really. Which is sadly what we'll remember.

[JohnM1875]

Livi was a 4-1 win
3-0 at Motherwell
3-0 at St Mirren
4-0 at Hamilton
2 wins over Aberdeen
Draw with Rangers

Lets not pretend its all bad. Just the Hampden games really. Which is sadly what we'll remember.

Fair point, and you're right.

But I wouldn't class the last win away to Aberdeen or the draw against Rangers (as good results as they are) as great performances to watch.

[MWHIBBIES]

Fair point, and you're right.

But I wouldn't class the last win away to Aberdeen or the draw against Rangers (as good results as they are) as great performances to watch.

Our performance against Rangers was very good to watch, probably the most entertaining match of the season.

[ahibby]

I was pleased when I saw the formation, sticking with recent 4 at the back compared to the 3 at back I think was played when beaten all three times previously against St J seemed the right decision to me.

But it still didn't work - whether that was because of the players attitude or just St J being on a bloody good run for last 5 or 6 months I am not sure.....probably a bit of both though I think players attitude seemed wrong from the start.

As for Jack, getting 3rd in first full season is plenty good enough for me - I support him being allowed to change squad during summer.

Okay be prepared for uninspiring football and mega failures in the big games, just ask the Sunderland and Hibs fans who know what they have witnessed. Nice guy but yesterday is typical of all the uninspiring home games we have seen. Anyone remember a certain December game 2 0 down at home to Rangers in first ten minutes, 3 0 down by twenty minutes. How about 2 0 down at home to St J or 3 0 down to Livingston. 3rd place in the league with the 4th biggest budget and an Aberdeen in turmoil isnt all that inspiring. I am not inspired by him and going by yesterday and many of our home games , neither are players. Callum Davidson is far more inspiring but at Hibs as long as you are a nice guy thats enough.

[MWHIBBIES]

Okay be prepared for uninspiring football and mega failures in the big games, just ask the Sunderland and Hibs fans who know what they have witnessed. Nice guy but yesterday is typical of all the uninspiring home games we have seen. Anyone remember a certain December game 2 0 down at home to Rangers in first ten minutes, 3 0 down by twenty minutes. How about 2 0 down at home to St J or 3 0 down to Livingston. 3rd place in the league with the 4th biggest budget and an Aberdeen in turmoil isnt all that inspiring. I am not inspired by him and going by yesterday and many of our home games , neither are players. Callum Davidson is far more inspiring but at Hibs as long as you are a nice guy thats enough.

Its clearly not enough because we've sacked plenty of nice guys. Plenty of dickheads as well.

We have never been 2-0 at home to ST J under Ross.

We beat Livi twice this season and Aberdeen twice.

We got hammered off Rangers a few weeks into Ross coming in, literally every Hibs manager does that. A week later we won 2-0 at Hearts.

I don't get this making stuff up to hit ross with. There are plenty of genuine reasons to want him to leave. His league performance is not one of them.

[vahibbie]

Livi was a 4-1 win
3-0 at Motherwell
3-0 at St Mirren
4-0 at Hamilton
2 wins over Aberdeen
Draw with Rangers


Lets not pretend its all bad. Just the Hampden games really. Which is sadly what we'll remember.

A few decent results but performances over the season were woeful. Watching Hibs on TV all season has been eye bleeding most of the time. Actually it's maybe not such a surprise we've been so bad at Hampden. I just don't understand how JR and his team can appear so unmotivated for these games and show zero fight.

[MWHIBBIES]

A few decent results but performances over the season were woeful. Watching Hibs on TV all season has been eye bleeding most of the time. Actually it's maybe not such a surprise we've been so bad at Hampden. I just don't understand how JR and his team can appear so unmotivated for these games and show zero fight.

They were not woeful. Decent results well outweighted the bad ones.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Okay be prepared for uninspiring football and mega failures in the big games, just ask the Sunderland and Hibs fans who know what they have witnessed. Nice guy but yesterday is typical of all the uninspiring home games we have seen. Anyone remember a certain December game 2 0 down at home to Rangers in first ten minutes, 3 0 down by twenty minutes. How about 2 0 down at home to St J or 3 0 down to Livingston. 3rd place in the league with the 4th biggest budget and an Aberdeen in turmoil isnt all that inspiring. I am not inspired by him and going by yesterday and many of our home games , neither are players. Callum Davidson is far more inspiring but at Hibs as long as you are a nice guy thats enough.

If you're a nice guy who gets us to 3rd in the league in your first full season, that's certainly enough to avoid the sack, irrespective of cup performances.

[vahibbie]

They were not woeful. Decent results well outweighted the bad ones.
Results are not the same as performance. This is one of the main points that divide opinion between supporters. Put it this way - if having to watch us play like that is the price of us getting 3rd then I won't last to many more seasons at ER. For years we ridiculed Hearts for playing hoofball. We play it now, just not as we'll as them.....and it hurts.

[Since452]

Okay be prepared for uninspiring football and mega failures in the big games, just ask the Sunderland and Hibs fans who know what they have witnessed. Nice guy but yesterday is typical of all the uninspiring home games we have seen. Anyone remember a certain December game 2 0 down at home to Rangers in first ten minutes, 3 0 down by twenty minutes. How about 2 0 down at home to St J or 3 0 down to Livingston. 3rd place in the league with the 4th biggest budget and an Aberdeen in turmoil isnt all that inspiring. I am not inspired by him and going by yesterday and many of our home games , neither are players. Callum Davidson is far more inspiring but at Hibs as long as you are a nice guy thats enough.

Sunderland have gone backwards since Ross left. So would Hibs. Be careful what you wish for.

[MWHIBBIES]

Results are not the same as performance. This is one of the main points that divide opinion between supporters. Put it this way - if having to watch us play like that is the price of us getting 3rd then I won't last to many more seasons at ER. For years we ridiculed Hearts for playing hoofball. We play it now, just not as we'll as them.....and it hurts.

We don't play hoofball at all.

[ahibby]

Its clearly not enough because we've sacked plenty of nice guys. Plenty of dickheads as well.

We have never been 2-0 at home to ST J under Ross.

We beat Livi twice this season and Aberdeen twice.

We got hammered off Rangers a few weeks into Ross coming in, literally every Hibs manager does that. A week later we won 2-0 at Hearts.

I don't get this making stuff up to hit ross with. There are plenty of genuine reasons to want him to leave. His league performance is not one of them.

He will never get us to 3rd again and wont reach a cup final next season. We were 2 0 down to St J at home until Solo goals from P McGinn saved the day to make it 2 2 against a St J team which was weaker than yesterdays team is what I referred to. If you are happy to watch eye bleeding football at ER then good for you. He is uninspiring to me and going by yesterday and the majority of games I have seen, to his players. You are okay with one win one draw and four defeats to St J in one season well well. Everyone makes a big deal of the nice guy image and good human beings but just give me an inspiring manager/ coach. You reversed my point you talked zbout firing while I referred to hiring. We beat Livi only twice this season but played them four times with a much greater budget. Aberdeen in such turmoil they had to change manager towards the end of the season. Its just not inspiring.

[scoopyboy]

He will never get us to 3rd again and wont reach a cup final next season. We were 2 0 down to St J at home until Solo goals from P McGinn saved the day to make it 2 2 against a St J team which was weaker than yesterdays team is what I referred to. If you are happy to watch eye bleeding football at ER then good for you. He is uninspiring to me and going by yesterday and the majority of games I have seen, to his players. You are okay with one win one draw and four defeats to St J in one season well well. Everyone makes a big deal of the nice guy image and good human beings but just give me an inspiring manager/ coach. You reversed my point you talked zbout firing while I referred to hiring. We beat Livi only twice this season but played them four times with a much greater budget. Aberdeen in such turmoil they had to change manager towards the end of the season. Its just not inspiring.

Pedantic perhaps but we weren't 2-0 down at home. McGinn scored two equalisers.

[wandering_hibee]

Firstly I am a big fan of Jack Ross, the ship has been steadied, we are going in the right direction and I think next season could be even better. I have been following Hibs since the early/mid 1960's and have seen many managers come and go and the ones that I remember are the ones that win trophies and sadly I am not convinced that is one of Jack's strengths.
To be a good manager/leader you need to not only pick the best group of players but you need to motivate them to win, if not every time then most of the time and certainly always when it matters most. This is the skill that Jack seems to lack.
I am sure that Ron will of a similar viewpoint and whether he gives Jack time to address the lack of this particular skill, remains to be seen. If he does then I hope that someone helps him to develop the skill or gets an assistant that can motivate the players because I don't want to sit through another Hampden failure next season.

[Hibiza]

Anyone wants to leave - goodbye .

[MWHIBBIES]

He will never get us to 3rd again and wont reach a cup final next season. We were 2 0 down to St J at home until Solo goals from P McGinn saved the day to make it 2 2 against a St J team which was weaker than yesterdays team is what I referred to. If you are happy to watch eye bleeding football at ER then good for you. He is uninspiring to me and going by yesterday and the majority of games I have seen, to his players. You are okay with one win one draw and four defeats to St J in one season well well. Everyone makes a big deal of the nice guy image and good human beings but just give me an inspiring manager/ coach. You reversed my point you talked zbout firing while I referred to hiring. We beat Livi only twice this season but played them four times with a much greater budget. Aberdeen in such turmoil they had to change manager towards the end of the season. Its just not inspiring.

We were not 2-0 down to St Johnstone, dunno why you keep saying this. It was 1-1 then 2-2.

He could well get us to 3rd, you've no idea. I'm not okay wit our record against St Johnstone, I've spent the last 3 pages slaughtering that record. I'm very okay with his record against St Mirren, Kilmarnock, Hamilton, Dundee United, Aberdeen etc.

Okay, so we beat Livi twice, finish well above them and thats because of our budget? But we beat Aberdeen twice, finish above them and their bigger budget, and thats only because they're in turnmoil?

Plenty of reasons to moan about Ross and Hibs without making them up.

[scoopyboy]

Sunderland have gone backwards since Ross left. So would Hibs. Be careful what you wish for.

Aye, Arsenal fans wanted rid of Arsene Wenger,

On a lesser level Danny Lennon won the League Cup at St.Mirren, kept them in the top flight but was emptied because he had taken them as far as he could. Next season, relegation.

[h1bs4life]

I think the mentality we showed yesterday will have a detrimental effect on season ticket sales….

Definitely will , if we had been beaten in the early rounds of the cups and finished 3rd everyone would have been happy.
The fact we have lost winnable semi finals / final to lower so called teams overrides the 3rd place.
Win yesterday and would likely get more season tickets plus thousands on the commercial side photos with the cup , t shirts scarves etc and a good atmosphere around the club .
Now season is remembered for getting turned over by St Johnstone again .
6 of us yesterday in our group in the pub are season ticket holders and have renewed , 5 of us have questioned Ross over the season with my brother being probably one of Ross's biggest supporters even he is now the same as us get rid.

[ahibby]

We were not 2-0 down to St Johnstone, dunno why you keep saying this. It was 1-1 then 2-2.

He could well get us to 3rd, you've no idea. I'm not okay wit our record against St Johnstone, I've spent the last 3 pages slaughtering that record. I'm very okay with his record against St Mirren, Kilmarnock, Hamilton, Dundee United, Aberdeen etc.

Okay, so we beat Livi twice, finish well above them and thats because of our budget? But we beat Aberdeen twice, finish above them and their bigger budget, and thats only because they're in turnmoil?

Plenty of reasons to moan about Ross and Hibs without making them up.

Ofcourse Aberdeen are in turmoil they emptied their manager towards the end of the season because everything was rosey? Okay you remember the 2 2 game better than I do but still not happy about going behind twice to them at ER. Sorry I cant get excited by beating Livingston twice in a season

[ahibby]

Pedantic perhaps but we weren't 2-0 down at home. McGinn scored two equalisers.

Fair enough bad recollection by me but still behind twice. Thanks to you and MW for correcting poor recollection of that match.

[MWHIBBIES]

Ofcourse Aberdeen are in turmoil they emptied their manager towards the end of the season because everything was rosey? Okay you remember the 2 2 game better than I do but still not happy about going behind twice to them at ER. Sorry I cant get excited by beating Livingston twice in a season

So you don't care about beating Livi but you're raging we drew with St Johnstone?

Aberdeen are in turnmoil because we put them there. He would not have been sacked if they were 3rd.

[vahibbie]

We don't play hoofball at all.

Don't we.
I don't think it's our starting tactic but plenty evidence of aimless punts up the park. If Boyles marked out the game we have no options. Hardly and passing moves to cut open defences. Square, square, square hoof.
Perhaps if it was our tactic and we practiced it we would be better..

[Hibrandenburg]

Now ask any Hibs fan at the start of the season if they'd be happy abjectly losing a semi to Hearts and a semi and a final to St Johnstone. I can't recall any real stand out game that helped get us third but I will remember these miserable efforts at Hampden.

OK, I'll ask you now. Would achieving 3rd place and a few good cup runs be an acceptable outcome for next season?

[ahibby]

Sunderland have gone backwards since Ross left. So would Hibs. Be careful what you wish for.

This is a good point. Although I am uninspired by him and many of his team performances, i have no idea who could do a better job other than the obvious C Davidson but he will probably be off to something bigger than Hibs. Knowing what many have said to be eyebleeding football too many times while I will still contribute to HSL and Gold ST, I will more than likely watch for our results and not the actual games. I cant subject my household to my bad moods or neighbours to foul language outbursts following and during Hibs home games and Hampden performances. I cant be the only one surely.

[Since452]

This is a good point. Although I am uninspired by him and many of his team performances, i have no idea who could do a better job other than the obvious C Davidson but he will probably be off to something bigger than Hibs. Knowing what many have said to be eyebleeding football too many times while I will still contribute to HSL and Gold ST, I will more than likely watch for our results and not the actual games. I cant subject my household to my bad moods or neighbours to foul language outbursts following and during Hibs home games and Hampden performances. I cant be the only one surely.

I think we need to try and build some stability at the club. By that I mean having manager for more than a couple of seasons at a time. Very few have been at the club longer than that. Yesterday was dire, completely unacceptable but it's been a decent first full season for Jack Ross. Hopefully we can push on again next season and make sure we're going far in the cup competitions and challenging for Europe again.

[CMurdoch]

33 pages!
Couldn't face this place yesterday after the game so kept away. You have been busy.

Bigger picture of the loss is we will lose money and opportunities in Europe next season and more directly it will slow down season ticket sales in the meantime but hopefully the kneejerkers will get their enthusiasm back before the new season starts and join the rest of us supporting Hibs, Jack Ross and the players at Easter Road from July.
A more pragmatic approach yesterday could have changed the outcome but Jack Ross stuck with what he thinks is his best team rather than choose a team and tactics to play St J. and for that reason I apportioned blame for yesterday at the door of JR.
However, it would be madness to consider changing the manager.

[matty_f]

Don't we.
I don't think it's our starting tactic but plenty evidence of aimless punts up the park. If Boyles marked out the game we have no options. Hardly and passing moves to cut open defences. Square, square, square hoof.
Perhaps if it was our tactic and we practiced it we would be better..

We don’t play hoofball generally. And we certainly don’t play worse than Hearts (who were knocked out the Cup conditions by Alloa and Brora Rangers).

It would be good if folk could be annoyed at yesterday without just spouting stuff that isn’t remotely close to being true.

[BoomtownHibees]

OK, I'll ask you now. Would achieving 3rd place and a few good cup runs be an acceptable outcome for next season?

That should be the minimum expectation every season. However, that expectation surely changes if you end up in the last 4 of 2 competitions without either of the Glasgow teams being there?

[JohnM1875]

We don’t play hoofball generally. And we certainly don’t play worse than Hearts (who were knocked out the Cup conditions by Alloa and Brora Rangers).

It would be good if folk could be annoyed at yesterday without just spouting stuff that isn’t remotely close to being true.

Out of interest what's the difference between Porto and Hanlon playing long diagonals/balls up to the strikers compared to say, Berra 'hoofing' it up to their strikers?

Is it just frequency? Cause to be honest, we do it quite a lot as well.

[Peevemor]

Don't we.
I don't think it's our starting tactic but plenty evidence of aimless punts up the park. If Boyles marked out the game we have no options. Hardly and passing moves to cut open defences. Square, square, square hoof.
Perhaps if it was our tactic and we practiced it we would be better..No we don't.

[Danderhall Hibs]

OK, I'll ask you now. Would achieving 3rd place and a few good cup runs be an acceptable outcome for next season?

You can’t ask questions like that - folk prefer to set goals in hindsight.

[J-C]

I think the fact that this thread is now into page 33 shows there is real unrest with many fans over the attitude of the team and the ability of the manager to get us winning the bigger games that matter. The style of football has been for the most part industrial and boring with the very odd good display thrown in. It's been great getting 3rd but helped a bit by the fact that Aberdeen had a shocker this season and the league in general was pretty poor due to Covid restrictions but it's the manner of losses we seen in those semi's and yesterday that sticks in the throat. These types of performances have been seen all too often this season, nothing seems to have been done to stop them happening, is it players, the management or both.

[Danderhall Hibs]

We don’t play hoofball generally. And we certainly don’t play worse than Hearts (who were knocked out the Cup conditions by Alloa and Brora Rangers).

It would be good if folk could be annoyed at yesterday without just spouting stuff that isn’t remotely close to being true.

We play some good stuff - rarely for 90 minutes but when we do it’s good to watch - 1st half of Livi at home recently as an example. It’s just another thing banded about to hammer the manager. Same goes for the “big game” thing - all big games he won are discounted/dismissed from the argument.

[21.05.2016]

And replace him with who? Who could we get realistically whos available that would come in and do a better job?

I'm not being cheeky, its a genuine question because people are always quick to shout sack the manager but rarely do they actually back it up with a realistic solution. Sacking the manager is all very well and good but it only solves half the problem.

I'm not yet in the JR out camp although, as mentioned already, I do have concerns about him when it comes to big games. Yesterday we just didn't look up for it at all. Now that doesn't soley come down to JR. Players shouldn't need to be told to get up for the big games, they should already be doing that themsleves and the players ultimately have to take responsibility for the poor perfomrnace. Even after the penalty save, we didn't seem to take a lift from it as i thought they might have.

[J-C]

Out of interest what's the difference between Porto and Hanlon playing long diagonals/balls up to the strikers compared to say, Berra 'hoofing' it up to their strikers?

Is it just frequency? Cause to be honest, we do it quite a lot as well.


Hoofball is aimless punts into channels, long diagonals is what John McGinn did on a regular basis, Hanlon and Porteous hoof it into channels hoping Doidge Nisbet or Boyle will get on the end of it. Our main problem is a static midfield with 2 players Gogic and Newell sitting around 5-10 yards from the defence and not showing for a pass. Also can anyone here explain why Newell was sitting deeper than Gogic when Gogic is meant to be the DM ball winner.

[Silky]

I think the mentality we showed yesterday will have a detrimental effect on season ticket sales….

Really? Glory hunting Khant's then. Keep the seats for proper fans.

[hibsbollah]

We don’t play hoofball generally. And we certainly don’t play worse than Hearts (who were knocked out the Cup conditions by Alloa and Brora Rangers).

It would be good if folk could be annoyed at yesterday without just spouting stuff that isn’t remotely close to being true.

I don’t think we play hoofball all the time, we play a patient possession game which can be good to watch when it works. I think we resort to hoofball when in trouble. There’s a lack of imagination and a Plan B when we go behind, there’s a reliance on the 3 usual scorers to come up with something.

[Jim44]

This is a good point. Although I am uninspired by him and many of his team performances, i have no idea who could do a better job other than the obvious C Davidson but he will probably be off to something bigger than Hibs. Knowing what many have said to be eyebleeding football too many times while I will still contribute to HSL and Gold ST, I will more than likely watch for our results and not the actual games. I cant subject my household to my bad moods or neighbours to foul language outbursts following and during Hibs home games and Hampden performances. I cant be the only one surely.

In the unlikely event of J Ross leaving Hibs, I would hope to replace him by someone far better than Calum Davidson.

[Peevemor]

In the unlikely event of J Ross leaving Hibs, I would hope to replace him by someone far better than Calum Davidson.Jesus! I hope so. I couldn't bring myself to watch that every week, cups or not.

[green day]

Really? Glory hunting Khant's then. Keep the seats for proper fans.

You wont have too much trouble finding a seat next season now.......................

[Hibs Class]

I think the fact that this thread is now into page 33 shows there is real unrest with many fans over the attitude of the team and the ability of the manager to get us winning the bigger games that matter. The style of football has been for the most part industrial and boring with the very odd good display thrown in. It's been great getting 3rd but helped a bit by the fact that Aberdeen had a shocker this season and the league in general was pretty poor due to Covid restrictions but it's the manner of losses we seen in those semi's and yesterday that sticks in the throat. These types of performances have been seen all too often this season, nothing seems to have been done to stop them happening, is it players, the management or both.

The league doesn't lie. Every year there are stories behind the positions.

[Silky]

You wont have too much trouble finding a seat next season now.......................

Excellent. I'll get on to that........

[Silky]

OK, I'll ask you now. Would achieving 3rd place and a few good cup runs be an acceptable outcome for next season?

This has been done before. After the semi defeat to Hearts, the consensus was that the only acceptable outcome next season would be 12 points. Nothing else matters, I was told.......

[ahibby]

I think we need to try and build some stability at the club. By that I mean having manager for more than a couple of seasons at a time. Very few have been at the club longer than that. Yesterday was dire, completely unacceptable but it's been a decent first full season for Jack Ross. Hopefully we can push on again next season and make sure we're going far in the cup competitions and challenging for Europe again.

Yes. We will though be taking a risk though if we leave it all to JR. I am not sure he learns quickly enough. Am I right in saying hes been coach at four different clubs snd still he doesnt get it right in the SC final despite having taken Hibs to Hampden is it 3 or 4 times? However its not just the cups its about the very pooor home performances too.

[ahibby]

In the unlikely event of J Ross leaving Hibs, I would hope to replace him by someone far better than Calum Davidson.

Maybe u are right but St J at least punched above their weight and spanked us four times this season. We cant get Gerrard after all.

[percy veer]

Jesus! I hope so. I couldn't bring myself to watch that every week, cups or not.

I'd watch that for the rest of my life if we won a cup double

[#2 Double Tap]

Jesus! I hope so. I couldn't bring myself to watch that every week, cups or not.

they play better football that is more pleasing to watch than we play at the moment, imo o/c

[CMurdoch]

Hibs will be favourites to finish 3rd again next season.
Obviously dependent on our ins and outs and those of Aberdeen, Hearts and St J.
Jack Ross will be at the wheel.

[Lith]

Yes. We will though be taking a risk though if we leave it all to JR. I am not sure he learns quickly enough. Am I right in saying hes been coach at four different clubs snd still he doesnt get it right in the SC final despite having taken Hibs to Hampden is it 3 or 4 times? However its not just the cups its about the very pooor home performances too.

The only thing we should leave to Jack Ross if looking for his new job..... i really wonder what he does in training and coaching.... He just doesnt learn anything and his motivation skills are round about Zero.... he all alone has cost Hibs a lot off money

[ahibby]

And replace him with who? Who could we get realistically whos available that would come in and do a better job?

I'm not being cheeky, its a genuine question because people are always quick to shout sack the manager but rarely do they actually back it up with a realistic solution. Sacking the manager is all very well and good but it only solves half the problem.

I'm not yet in the JR out camp although, as mentioned already, I do have concerns about him when it comes to big games. Yesterday we just didn't look up for it at all. Now that doesn't soley come down to JR. Players shouldn't need to be told to get up for the big games, they should already be doing that themsleves and the players ultimately have to take responsibility for the poor perfomrnace. Even after the penalty save, we didn't seem to take a lift from it as i thought they might have.

For me it wasnt only the poor performance from individuals but the orgznisation didnt look right. Also I wonder what they were told to do because there wasnt much movement up frknt and I didnt see much correction coming from JR. Of course he didnt tell them not to move but there was far less chasing back from the front two than we have seen before. I get it if he has told them to save their legs for takin chances but other than that I dont get the lack of involvement frkm the front two. Especially Doidge because he has put in hard working shifts all season.

[vahibbie]

Jesus! I hope so. I couldn't bring myself to watch that every week, cups or not.

Really. From what I've seen of St Johnstone they have easily been as pleasing to watch as us, that of course has not been difficult.
BTW I have no interest is seeing Davidson move to Hibs.

[calumhibee1]

they play better football that is more pleasing to watch than we play at the moment, imo o/c

Absolutely. Our style of football isn’t great at all. St Johnstone’s certainly isn’t any worse imo.

[Peevemor]

they play better football that is more pleasing to watch than we play at the moment, imo o/cEach to their own - I disagree.

I prefer trying to win other than going out to stop the other team winning whilst hoping to fluke a goal.

[Jim44]

Maybe u are right but St J at least punched above their weight and spanked us four times this season. We cant get Gerrard after all.

I can’t argue against CD’s record against us this season, but I don’t think that’s a sound reason for him being our next manager. Over the course of a season, I would much prefer Ross in charge.

[ahibby]

Hibs will be favourites to finish 3rd again next season.
Obviously dependent on our ins and outs and those of Aberdeen, Hearts and St J.
Jack Ross will be at the wheel.

Well at least we know what we are in for.

[ahibby]

I can’t argue against CD’s record against us this season, but I don’t think that’s a sound reason for him being our next manager. Over the course of a season, I would much prefer Ross in charge.

Perhaps we will never know.

[Skol]

The people who are calling for Ross to go really need to get some perspective !

Yesterday was very disappointing and come son the back of other poor performances in big games and can be classed as a massive missed opportunity.

However we have finished 3rd which is a less frequent occurrence than winning a trophy. This 3rd place follows managers like Heckingotham, Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood, Williamson. Even STubbs and Mowbray while they had good spells, also had their flaws.

We have in Ross a manager who has taken us to 3rd and consistent hampden appearances. I would take that over another Butcher etc.

Ok, we could set our sights higher, but lets be realistic.

[#2 Double Tap]

Each to their own - I disagree.

I prefer trying to win other than going out to stop the other team winning whilst hoping to fluke a goal.

do you watch our games with your eyes shut?

you have just described how we actually set out to play most games. sit back, hardly any pressing and look to hit on the counter.

you are right though, agree to disagree and all that.

[ahibby]

Each to their own - I disagree.

I prefer trying to win other than going out to stop the other team winning whilst hoping to fluke a goal.

You think having Spooney crossing from the left to Rooney marked at the back post by Doig was a fluke? I thought that was their plan. Sll opinions I suppose.

[Peevemor]

do you watch our games with your eyes shut?

you have just described how we actually set out to play most games. sit back, hardly any pressing and look to hit on the counter.

you are right though, agree to disagree and all that.

Yeah, we'll have to.

[Peevemor]

You think having Spooney crossing from the left to Rooney marked at the back post by Doig was a fluke? I thought that was their plan. Sll opinions I suppose.

I'm sure that was their team talk. "OK Spoony, you get to the bye line and skin Gogic, Boyle & McGinn then send a pin point cross to the back post where one of the best young defenders in the country won't even look to see who's behind him.

You believe that?

[Hibernia&Alba]

The people who are calling for Ross to go really need to get some perspective !

Yesterday was very disappointing and come son the back of other poor performances in big games and can be classed as a massive missed opportunity.

However we have finished 3rd which is a less frequent occurrence than winning a trophy. This 3rd place follows managers like Heckingotham, Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood, Williamson. Even STubbs and Mowbray while they had good spells, also had their flaws.

We have in Ross a manager who has taken us to 3rd and consistent hampden appearances. I would take that over another Butcher etc.

Ok, we could set our sights higher, but lets be realistic.

Agreed :agree:.

As for the impact of yesterday upon season ticket sales, only time will tell. I'm not so sure the numbers will be down. Firstly, once people get past the awful performance, I think many will reflect on the season as a whole and conclude we've made progress. Secondly, fans want to be at the stadium again after being away so long. It might be okay.

[Peevemor]

Agreed :agree:.

As for the impact of yesterday upon season ticket sales, only time will tell. I'm not so sure the numbers will be down. Firstly, once people get past the awful performance, I think many will reflect on the season as a whole and conclude we've made progress. Secondly, fans want to be at the stadium again after being away so long. It might be okay.Here's hoping.