Jack Ross out

[truehibernian]

Right now, if Ron is able, I'd be breaking the wage structure to bring Leigh back. That would be a tremendous fillip after yesterday, which will take time to get fans upbeat again.

[Bangkok Hibby]

OK, I'll ask you now. Would achieving 3rd place and a few good cup runs be an acceptable outcome for next season?

Depends who we meet/beat/get beat by in the cups surely.

[vahibbie]

I'm sure that was their team talk. "OK Spoony, you get to the bye line and skin Gogic, Boyle & McGinn then send a pin point cross to the back post where one of the best young defenders in the country won't even look to see who's behind him.

You believe that?

I believe it was mentioned by pundits that it's one of St Johnstones's go to moves and should have been better covered by JRs defence. The ineptitude of the Hibs defensive players just made it easier.

[Peevemor]

I believe it was mentioned by pundits that it's one of St Johnstones's go to moves and should have been better covered by JRs defence. The ineptitude of the Hibs defensive players just made it easier.And was that down to the manager?

[vahibbie]

And was that down to the manager?

If that was something St Johnstone were known to do then it's the managers job to have his team coached to counter it. Of course if the players couldn't deal with it then not down to manager. I guess we will never know.

[truehibernian]

If that was something St Johnstone were known to do then it's the managers job to have his team coached to counter it. Of course if the players couldn't deal with it then not down to manager. I guess we will never know.

In defence of JR, when you have two players not fully committed in winning tackles and the ball lands to Spoony as a result, there's not much a manager can do.

I posted last week that I'd have been man-marking Spoony as he is on top form and their outlet for their creative play. We didn't learn. We stood of him and gave him an easy game. He doesn't like the physical part of the game, and a few hard challenges early would have set the tone.

Instead, we insisted on the counter-attack game and allowed them possession in the midfield, for that, JR is very much accountable.

[Peevemor]

If that was something St Johnstone were known to do then it's the managers job to have his team coached to counter it. Of course if the players couldn't deal with it then not down to manager. I guess we will never know.

I know that Paul McGinn has had a great season. I know that Martin Boyle doesn't excel in defence but is willing to give it a go when need be. I know that Alex Gogic is capable of making important interventions all over the pitch.

What I don't know is how anyone can blame Jack Ross for St Johnstone's goal yesterday.

[Since452]

The thing is none of us were in the dressing room. None of us were at HTC all week. We don't know what Ross said to them. We don't know what Potter said to them, or Gray or McGregor etc. I'm not believing for a second he didn't have them motivated for it. Professional pride should be enough in a final anyway never mind needing a manager to gee you up. I can't explain what happened yesterday. The first goal was absolutely vital though. Losing it just brought out all our insecurities, especially against St Johnstone, and we didn't recover phycologically. On the flip side it had the absolute opposite effect on St Johnstone and they'd have felt they were invincible. They are no mugs btw and deserve their double. You just know when you have the beating of a team. Its exactly how I felt when we played Dundee United. We have their number, St Johnstone have ours. It hurts but I'll get over it. Can't wait to actually go and support them next season.

[bingo70]

I know that Paul McGinn has had a great season. I know that Martin Boyle doesn't excel in defence but is willing to give it a go when need be. I know that Alex Gogic is capable of making important interventions all over the pitch.

What I don't know is how anyone can blame Jack Ross for St Johnstone's goal yesterday.

You try and play a system that doesn’t allow the right back to be able to bomb forward. Playing a centre midfielder at left midfield was perfect for that.

Anyway, you can’t drill down into every mistake and lay that at the floor of the manager. The manager can’t tackle Wotherspoon in the build up, you’re absolutely correct, he does however influence how the team plays overall.

The game was over the second they scored, that’s down to the manager IMO. One goal against us shouldn’t be that significant.

I would also argue that if they were sent out motivated and fired up for it maybe they wouldn’t be losing 50/50s as easily as we did

We were placid as hell yesterday, we were slow and ponderous in possession, that’s not traits of a team that’s sent out fired up for the game and motivated. st Johnstone were the opposite, that’s down to how they were motivated and fired up for the game, which is the managers responsibility.

[ekhibee]

Can’t believe his interview,I expected him to be angry after that spineless performance, but was happy with their effort and commitment. He can go now as far as I’m concerned.

I know, it really was like he was watching a different game, because if he thinks that's effort and commitment, he needs serious medical assistance IMO.

[hibsbollah]

Right now, if Ron is able, I'd be breaking the wage structure to bring Leigh back. That would be a tremendous fillip after yesterday, which will take time to get fans upbeat again.

:hyper

[StockholmHibs]

The people who are calling for Ross to go really need to get some perspective !

Yesterday was very disappointing and come son the back of other poor performances in big games and can be classed as a massive missed opportunity.

However we have finished 3rd which is a less frequent occurrence than winning a trophy. This 3rd place follows managers like Heckingotham, Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood, Williamson. Even STubbs and Mowbray while they had good spells, also had their flaws.

We have in Ross a manager who has taken us to 3rd and consistent hampden appearances. I would take that over another Butcher etc.

Ok, we could set our sights higher, but lets be realistic.
Thing is mate, most fans would taket a cup win over finishing 3rd. Comparing him to Butcher ffs! Geez peace

[Real Emerald]

I know that Paul McGinn has had a great season. I know that Martin Boyle doesn't excel in defence but is willing to give it a go when need be. I know that Alex Gogic is capable of making important interventions all over the pitch.

What I don't know is how anyone can blame Jack Ross for St Johnstone's goal yesterday.

It’s not the goal, it’s the complete incompetence of not
trying to throw the kitchen sink to get back in the game. It was a gutless performance in a cup final. All the nice videos and tweets are redundant when the team doesn’t turn up AGAIN. At least try and get the ball forward and score, it was a shocking performance for a cup final and there’s been a few others to judge it on.

[Is It On....]

I know, it really was like he was watching a different game, because if he thinks that's effort and commitment, he needs serious medical assistance IMO.


Yesterday was one paced, low intensity football with no tactical changes when the starting strategy wasn't working. Callum Davidson has had the better of him this season - it's the definition of insanity to keep trying the same thing that isn't working and expect a different result. I honestly expect more than that from Mr Ross and his Hibs team.

[superfurryhibby]

I'm sure that was their team talk. "OK Spoony, you get to the bye line and skin Gogic, Boyle & McGinn then send a pin point cross to the back post where one of the best young defenders in the country won't even look to see who's behind him.

You believe that?


Do you seriously think they don't look for Rooney coming in at the back post? How the crosses get there, is irrelevant, there will always be some that make it in to the box and Wotherspoon is very good at delivering them.

Out of interest what's your take on the game yesterday? It's easy to sit and knock every one else , without offering a view yourself.

[Fergos]

I know that Paul McGinn has had a great season. I know that Martin Boyle doesn't excel in defence but is willing to give it a go when need be. I know that Alex Gogic is capable of making important interventions all over the pitch.

What I don't know is how anyone can blame Jack Ross for St Johnstone's goal yesterday.

In the first 5 minutes of play yesterday they looked for Rooney with a high ball. For me, one of the CBS should have been picking him up at crosses leaving Doig to drop off and the other CB with Kane. Spooney denied the out ball from McGinn and with Rooney stopping Doig they knew they were into a winner as we create zilch from the middle 3. Tactically naive.

[Peevemor]

Do you seriously think they don't look for Rooney coming in at the back post? How the crosses get there, is irrelevant, there will always be some that make it in to the box and Wotherspoon is very good at delivering them.

Out of interest what's your take on the game yesterday? It's easy to sit and knock every one else , without offering a view yourself.I've offered my view a few times now on different threads.

[superfurryhibby]

I've offered my view a few times now on different threads.

Sorry, I've just read the past few pages on this one.

Did you think the manager got the tactics right? Did you have the sense the players were motivated and playing with as much commitment as the St Jo0hnstone guys?

I can't take any positives from yesterday. I was utterly gutted, but not that surprised.

[tynesideirish]

Right now, if Ron is able, I'd be breaking the wage structure to bring Leigh back. That would be a tremendous fillip after yesterday, which will take time to get fans upbeat again.

I'd love Leigh to come back, but don't forget he played in the 2012 debarkle. Would he have made a difference yesterday? It would be nice to think so but as our best player wasn't even on the bench yesterday...
I always think we (the club, not us) have a happy to muddle along attitude. 3rd and a cup final should keep the fans happy. Well I'm not happy. We'll sadly probably never win the league and a trophy once on a blue moon isn't good enough.

[IberianHibernian]

This thread`s obviously about whether Jack Ross should continue as our manager . All been said I`d imagine though I haven`t read it all .
From a slightly different perspective , will JR want to continue ? We`re very unlikely to finish higher in the league than this year and will do well to finish 3rd again . Could obviously do better in cups but unlikely to get lucky draws in both cups again and any team can have an off day at any time . If he could get us through 3 rounds to groups in Europe that would be great for us , him and his reputation but it`s unlikely to happen and still wouldn`t involve glamour ties . So what else can he do with us ? If he`s motivated by being like MacInnes at Aberdeen and getting endless 3rd and 4th places fine . Or maybe going one step further than this year in cup great . Ideally he`d aim to qualify for Europe every year but playing attractive football . In the end it`ll depend on what other options he has and I can`t see him getting a better offer than Hibs for a while at least .

[Hibrandenburg]

Depends who we meet/beat/get beat by in the cups surely.

Why, all teams are in the hat from the start.

[hibeerealist]

This thread`s obviously about whether Jack Ross should continue as our manager . All been said I`d imagine though I haven`t read it all .
From a slightly different perspective , will JR want to continue ? We`re very unlikely to finish higher in the league than this year and will do well to finish 3rd again . Could obviously do better in cups but unlikely to get lucky draws in both cups again and any team can have an off day at any time . If he could get us through 3 rounds to groups in Europe that would be great for us , him and his reputation but it`s unlikely to happen and still wouldn`t involve glamour ties . So what else can he do with us ? If he`s motivated by being like MacInnes at Aberdeen and getting endless 3rd and 4th places fine . Or maybe going one step further than this year in cup great . Ideally he`d aim to qualify for Europe every year but playing attractive football . In the end it`ll depend on what other options he has and I can`t see him getting a better offer than Hibs for a while at least .

Jack please don’t insult us any more than you have there is NO chance you will be offered some better deal to leave HFC, this is the real world and your coat is on a very loose peg get yer finger out or do one!

[matty_f]

My biggest issue with the “Ross out” thinking is that it’s completely reactionary to one game. That game was significant - massive even - and it was a cluster**** of huge proportions, for which Ross bears ultimate responsibility.

Yesterday was always going to be a first goal is the winner, imho. I thought if we scored first we’d win, and i was really worried about us if they scored first. We had a chance and Irvine blew it. Rooney made sure he was winning the header he scored with.

I’m annoyed at Ross for the defeat, I’m annoyed that we’d seen the movie before. I’m annoyed at the players for shirking the fight - and they did, collectively and individually.

We’ve faced adversity at various points in the season, we went from “we’re not getting top six”/“we’re not getting third”/“we can’t win big games” and the team ultimately proved that wrong (until yesterday). We haven’t been out of the top four all season.

Ross and Hibs have shown that they can bounce back from horror shows, the issue is that we have the horror shows in the first place, but i do think that, given time, those will be fewer and further between.

Last night and this morning, if I’m completely honest, I could have happily told every player, Ross, the lot to **** off, but it’s the wrong thing to do. When you step back, sacking Ross, and starting again, would potentially be an incredibly damaging thing to do.

I won’t list the “achievements” or reasons for why Ross deserves the time, they’re covered plenty already elsewhere on here.

What I will say is we were a game/performance away from having the best season in my lifetime. We came up short and it is a horrible feeling. The way we feel short will sit with me for a long, long time and it’s going to be hard to view the team fondly. I’ve a lot of anger towards the players for their attitude, and anger towards the manager for not doing more to sort it.

I’d be more angry if we came this far and chucked everything as a reaction to a shocking defeat. Ross has done well on almost every measure you can choose, short of picking out individual results. He’s not without his black marks, the cup defeats take the shine off the very good cup record he has in terms of progressing in competitions.

I still maintain I’d rather have a manager that’s there to lose those big games, we won’t lose them all and I’m sure we’ll be back again, like we were for the semi finals to get back off the canvas and reach a final. You have to accept, whether it’s “accepting mediocrity” bull**** patter or not, that when you get to a final there’s a chance you’ll lose.

You definitely lose when you don’t get that far though.

Emotions are high at the moment, hopefully when the dust settles folk take a breath and recognise the great things that the team have achieved this season.

Binning Ross isn’t the answer, it shouldn’t even be a question.

[Silky]

My biggest issue with the “Ross out” thinking is that it’s completely reactionary to one game. That game was significant - massive even - and it was a cluster**** of huge proportions, for which Ross bears ultimate responsibility.

Yesterday was always going to be a first goal is the winner, imho. I thought if we scored first we’d win, and i was really worried about us if they scored first. We had a chance and Irvine blew it. Rooney made sure he was winning the header he scored with.

I’m annoyed at Ross for the defeat, I’m annoyed that we’d seen the movie before. I’m annoyed at the players for shirking the fight - and they did, collectively and individually.

We’ve faced adversity at various points in the season, we went from “we’re not getting top six”/“we’re not getting third”/“we can’t win big games” and the team ultimately proved that wrong (until yesterday). We haven’t been out of the top four all season.

Ross and Hibs have shown that they can bounce back from horror shows, the issue is that we have the horror shows in the first place, but i do think that, given time, those will be fewer and further between.

Last night and this morning, if I’m completely honest, I could have happily told every player, Ross, the lot to **** off, but it’s the wrong thing to do. When you step back, sacking Ross, and starting again, would potentially be an incredibly damaging thing to do.

I won’t list the “achievements” or reasons for why Ross deserves the time, they’re covered plenty already elsewhere on here.

What I will say is we were a game/performance away from having the best season in my lifetime. We came up short and it is a horrible feeling. The way we feel short will sit with me for a long, long time and it’s going to be hard to view the team fondly. I’ve a lot of anger towards the players for their attitude, and anger towards the manager for not doing more to sort it.

I’d be more angry if we came this far and chucked everything as a reaction to a shocking defeat. Ross has done well on almost every measure you can choose, short of picking out individual results. He’s not without his black marks, the cup defeats take the shine off the very good cup record he has in terms of progressing in competitions.

I still maintain I’d rather have a manager that’s there to lose those big games, we won’t lose them all and I’m sure we’ll be back again, like we were for the semi finals to get back off the canvas and reach a final. You have to accept, whether it’s “accepting mediocrity” bull**** patter or not, that when you get to a final there’s a chance you’ll lose.

You definitely lose when you don’t get that far though.

Emotions are high at the moment, hopefully when the dust settles folk take a breath and recognise the great things that the team have achieved this season.

Binning Ross isn’t the answer, it shouldn’t even be a question.

Well said Matty. It's a massive jerkng of knees with, actually, no credible alternative put forward. That's why I can't take it seriously.

[Zambernardi1875]

My biggest issue with the “Ross out” thinking is that it’s completely reactionary to one game. That game was significant - massive even - and it was a cluster**** of huge proportions, for which Ross bears ultimate responsibility.

Yesterday was always going to be a first goal is the winner, imho. I thought if we scored first we’d win, and i was really worried about us if they scored first. We had a chance and Irvine blew it. Rooney made sure he was winning the header he scored with.

I’m annoyed at Ross for the defeat, I’m annoyed that we’d seen the movie before. I’m annoyed at the players for shirking the fight - and they did, collectively and individually.

We’ve faced adversity at various points in the season, we went from “we’re not getting top six”/“we’re not getting third”/“we can’t win big games” and the team ultimately proved that wrong (until yesterday). We haven’t been out of the top four all season.

Ross and Hibs have shown that they can bounce back from horror shows, the issue is that we have the horror shows in the first place, but i do think that, given time, those will be fewer and further between.

Last night and this morning, if I’m completely honest, I could have happily told every player, Ross, the lot to **** off, but it’s the wrong thing to do. When you step back, sacking Ross, and starting again, would potentially be an incredibly damaging thing to do.

I won’t list the “achievements” or reasons for why Ross deserves the time, they’re covered plenty already elsewhere on here.

What I will say is we were a game/performance away from having the best season in my lifetime. We came up short and it is a horrible feeling. The way we feel short will sit with me for a long, long time and it’s going to be hard to view the team fondly. I’ve a lot of anger towards the players for their attitude, and anger towards the manager for not doing more to sort it.

I’d be more angry if we came this far and chucked everything as a reaction to a shocking defeat. Ross has done well on almost every measure you can choose, short of picking out individual results. He’s not without his black marks, the cup defeats take the shine off the very good cup record he has in terms of progressing in competitions.

I still maintain I’d rather have a manager that’s there to lose those big games, we won’t lose them all and I’m sure we’ll be back again, like we were for the semi finals to get back off the canvas and reach a final. You have to accept, whether it’s “accepting mediocrity” bull**** patter or not, that when you get to a final there’s a chance you’ll lose.

You definitely lose when you don’t get that far though.

Emotions are high at the moment, hopefully when the dust settles folk take a breath and recognise the great things that the team have achieved this season.

Binning Ross isn’t the answer, it shouldn’t even be a question.

Do you sell 2nd hand cars, or hire out hotel function suites for positivity seminars because they was beautiful

[matty_f]

Do you sell 2nd hand cars, or hire out hotel function suites for positivity seminars because they was beautiful

I can if you want. :greengrin

[Baader]

Yes it was always first goal wins Matty. Good post, spot on, thought so myself and was worried if we didn't get it. Think we all knew how St J would play it out.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Why, all teams are in the hat from the start.

The question was "would a few cup runs be acceptable next year"
We could beat Cove, Stranraer, Kilmarnock en route to semi for example then lose to Motherwell...
Or beat Airdrie, St Johnstone, Hearts then lose to Celtic in semi.
For me the second scenario would be far more acceptable than the first because of the teams we'd have faced.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Yes it was always first goal wins Matty. Good post, spot on, thought so myself and was worried if we didn't get it. Think we all knew how St J would play it out.

Isnt it a tad depressing to know we couldn't come back from a goal down?

[Stokesy's on fire]

Isnt it a tad depressing to know we couldn't come back from a goal down?

Very

[B.H.F.C]

My biggest issue with the “Ross out” thinking is that it’s completely reactionary to one game. That game was significant - massive even - and it was a cluster**** of huge proportions, for which Ross bears ultimate responsibility.

Yesterday was always going to be a first goal is the winner, imho. I thought if we scored first we’d win, and i was really worried about us if they scored first. We had a chance and Irvine blew it. Rooney made sure he was winning the header he scored with.

I’m annoyed at Ross for the defeat, I’m annoyed that we’d seen the movie before. I’m annoyed at the players for shirking the fight - and they did, collectively and individually.

We’ve faced adversity at various points in the season, we went from “we’re not getting top six”/“we’re not getting third”/“we can’t win big games” and the team ultimately proved that wrong (until yesterday). We haven’t been out of the top four all season.

Ross and Hibs have shown that they can bounce back from horror shows, the issue is that we have the horror shows in the first place, but i do think that, given time, those will be fewer and further between.

Last night and this morning, if I’m completely honest, I could have happily told every player, Ross, the lot to **** off, but it’s the wrong thing to do. When you step back, sacking Ross, and starting again, would potentially be an incredibly damaging thing to do.

I won’t list the “achievements” or reasons for why Ross deserves the time, they’re covered plenty already elsewhere on here.

What I will say is we were a game/performance away from having the best season in my lifetime. We came up short and it is a horrible feeling. The way we feel short will sit with me for a long, long time and it’s going to be hard to view the team fondly. I’ve a lot of anger towards the players for their attitude, and anger towards the manager for not doing more to sort it.

I’d be more angry if we came this far and chucked everything as a reaction to a shocking defeat. Ross has done well on almost every measure you can choose, short of picking out individual results. He’s not without his black marks, the cup defeats take the shine off the very good cup record he has in terms of progressing in competitions.

I still maintain I’d rather have a manager that’s there to lose those big games, we won’t lose them all and I’m sure we’ll be back again, like we were for the semi finals to get back off the canvas and reach a final. You have to accept, whether it’s “accepting mediocrity” bull**** patter or not, that when you get to a final there’s a chance you’ll lose.

You definitely lose when you don’t get that far though.

Emotions are high at the moment, hopefully when the dust settles folk take a breath and recognise the great things that the team have achieved this season.

Binning Ross isn’t the answer, it shouldn’t even be a question.

Is it really reactionary to one game? Plenty folk have remained unconvinced by him despite the relative success.

[Smartie]

My biggest issue with the “Ross out” thinking is that it’s completely reactionary to one game. That game was significant - massive even - and it was a cluster**** of huge proportions, for which Ross bears ultimate responsibility.

Yesterday was always going to be a first goal is the winner, imho. I thought if we scored first we’d win, and i was really worried about us if they scored first. We had a chance and Irvine blew it. Rooney made sure he was winning the header he scored with.

I’m annoyed at Ross for the defeat, I’m annoyed that we’d seen the movie before. I’m annoyed at the players for shirking the fight - and they did, collectively and individually.

We’ve faced adversity at various points in the season, we went from “we’re not getting top six”/“we’re not getting third”/“we can’t win big games” and the team ultimately proved that wrong (until yesterday). We haven’t been out of the top four all season.

Ross and Hibs have shown that they can bounce back from horror shows, the issue is that we have the horror shows in the first place, but i do think that, given time, those will be fewer and further between.

Last night and this morning, if I’m completely honest, I could have happily told every player, Ross, the lot to **** off, but it’s the wrong thing to do. When you step back, sacking Ross, and starting again, would potentially be an incredibly damaging thing to do.

I won’t list the “achievements” or reasons for why Ross deserves the time, they’re covered plenty already elsewhere on here.

What I will say is we were a game/performance away from having the best season in my lifetime. We came up short and it is a horrible feeling. The way we feel short will sit with me for a long, long time and it’s going to be hard to view the team fondly. I’ve a lot of anger towards the players for their attitude, and anger towards the manager for not doing more to sort it.

I’d be more angry if we came this far and chucked everything as a reaction to a shocking defeat. Ross has done well on almost every measure you can choose, short of picking out individual results. He’s not without his black marks, the cup defeats take the shine off the very good cup record he has in terms of progressing in competitions.

I still maintain I’d rather have a manager that’s there to lose those big games, we won’t lose them all and I’m sure we’ll be back again, like we were for the semi finals to get back off the canvas and reach a final. You have to accept, whether it’s “accepting mediocrity” bull**** patter or not, that when you get to a final there’s a chance you’ll lose.

You definitely lose when you don’t get that far though.

Emotions are high at the moment, hopefully when the dust settles folk take a breath and recognise the great things that the team have achieved this season.

Binning Ross isn’t the answer, it shouldn’t even be a question.

I agree with some of what you say but the fact that there was a “Jack Ross out brigade” waiting in the wings would suggest that this is more than about one result.

Re - winning big games and getting to big games - he better hope he doesn’t get Rangers or Celtic prior to the semis. Or Hearts. Or f’ing St Johnstone. 50/50 record against a dire Aberdeen which is a bit better.

You’re right about the game hinging in the first goal, but that’s what all our games are now like. I appreciate that “that’s football” but if we’re beaten as soon as we lose the first goal then I’m sure I’ll be far from the only one who’s choose to go to the pub and watch somebody toss a coin instead.

On balance I don’t think he should be sacked and he should be firmly judged on next season but he needs to buck his ideas up big time because in my opinion he has squandered huge opportunities he’s unlikely to ever be given again.

[GreenCastle]

Right now, if Ron is able, I'd be breaking the wage structure to bring Leigh back. That would be a tremendous fillip after yesterday, which will take time to get fans upbeat again.

Hibs definitely need to release some positive news soon.

A new player such as LG would definitely help.

We still haven’t sorted LD replacement.

The next step will be knowing also who is staying and who is leaving the club player wise.

Irvine and a few others situations need to be sorted to avoid a summer of uncertainty.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is it really reactionary to one game? Plenty folk have remained unconvinced by him despite the relative success.

Do you know why they’ve remained unconvinced? It’s not often we finish 3rd (certainly as comfortably as we did).

This is after taking us from danger of relegation to missing out on top 6 on average points while also getting to the advanced stages of every cup tournament available.

In the same period being 3rd highest scorers in the league with the 3rd best defence.

Seems strange that folk were unconvinced and if not knee jerking just waiting to pounce.

[matty_f]

Is it really reactionary to one game? Plenty folk have remained unconvinced by him despite the relative success.

Where have they been for the last couple of months?

They’ve been quiet as Ross and the team proved them wrong. One bad performance later and the toys are out the pram and they’re out the woodwork again. Folk logging on that ONLY post after a defeat to tell us how bad things are and how everything is wrong at the club.

[Crab apple]

I agree with some of what you say but the fact that there was a “Jack Ross out brigade” waiting in the wings would suggest that this is more than about one result.

Re - winning big games and getting to big games - he better hope he doesn’t get Rangers or Celtic prior to the semis. Or Hearts. Or f’ing St Johnstone. 50/50 record against a dire Aberdeen which is a bit better.

You’re right about the game hinging in the first goal, but that’s what all our games are now like. I appreciate that “that’s football” but if we’re beaten as soon as we lose the first goal then I’m sure I’ll be far from the only one who’s choose to go to the pub and watch somebody toss a coin instead.

On balance I don’t think he should be sacked and he should be firmly judged on next season but he needs to buck his ideas up big time because in my opinion he has squandered huge opportunities he’s likely to ever be given again.

Totally agree. It's consistent underachievement in the big games. He needs to change that next season or the pressure will mount.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I agree with some of what you say but the fact that there was a “Jack Ross out brigade” waiting in the wings would suggest that this is more than about one result.

Re - winning big games and getting to big games - he better hope he doesn’t get Rangers or Celtic prior to the semis. Or Hearts. Or f’ing St Johnstone. 50/50 record against a dire Aberdeen which is a bit better.

You’re right about the game hinging in the first goal, but that’s what all our games are now like. I appreciate that “that’s football” but if we’re beaten as soon as we lose the first goal then I’m sure I’ll be far from the only one who’s choose to go to the pub and watch somebody toss a coin instead.

On balance I don’t think he should be sacked and he should be firmly judged on next season but he needs to buck his ideas up big time because in my opinion he has squandered huge opportunities he’s likely to ever be given again.

If we’re calling Aberdeen dire should we also call Rangers invincible?

It feels like we’d be best to lose to Stranraer or Motherwell early doors in the cup next season, that way it’s not a big game.

[matty_f]

I agree with some of what you say but the fact that there was a “Jack Ross out brigade” waiting in the wings would suggest that this is more than about one result.

Re - winning big games and getting to big games - he better hope he doesn’t get Rangers or Celtic prior to the semis. Or Hearts. Or f’ing St Johnstone. 50/50 record against a dire Aberdeen which is a bit better.

You’re right about the game hinging in the first goal, but that’s what all our games are now like. I appreciate that “that’s football” but if we’re beaten as soon as we lose the first goal then I’m sure I’ll be far from the only one who’s choose to go to the pub and watch somebody toss a coin instead.

On balance I don’t think he should be sacked and he should be firmly judged on next season but he needs to buck his ideas up big time because in my opinion he has squandered huge opportunities he’s likely to ever be given again.

I’ve had the discussion many times, and been told that there was no Ross out brigade and that we weren’t one defeat away from all this stuff again, so maybe those folk were wrong?

Genuinely think he would have been better getting papped out the cup early doors, we’d have finished third and folk would have been quite happy with that.

The bar that’s been set for Ross is way higher than has been set for any other Hibs manager for some reason, and then when he does meet the things like “big games” folk move the goalposts.

We’ve got people saying third wasn’t difficult now, just to demean the achievement.

It’s a nonsense. Folk hounding the manager that took us to the brink of one of the best seasons ever getting it right because he fell short right at the end, while other managers are lauded despite getting us nowhere near it.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[Jones28]

Where have they been for the last couple of months?

They’ve been quiet as Ross and the team proved them wrong. One bad performance later and the toys are out the pan and they’re out the woodwork again. Folk logging on that ONLY post after a defeat to tell us how bad things are and how everything is wrong at the club.

:agree:

[matty_f]

Totally agree. It's consistent underachievement in the big games. He needs to change that next season or the pressure will mount.

It’s inconsistent achievement in the big games, there have been a lot of games that, until the goalposts were moved again, were labelled big games on here that we won, but now because we lost the final those are ignored again, like they never happened and are now no longer big games because it doesn’t suit the tantrums.

[B.H.F.C]

Do you know why they’ve remained unconvinced? It’s not often we finish 3rd (certainly as comfortably as we did).

This is after taking us from danger of relegation to missing out on top 6 on average points while also getting to the advanced stages of every cup tournament available.

In the same period being 3rd highest scorers in the league with the 3rd best defence.

Seems strange that folk were unconvinced and if not knee jerking just waiting to pounce.

Can only speak for myself but I don’t enjoy watching his team.

You can talk about being the third highest scorers in the league but I don’t enjoy the fact we failed to score in a third of our games. I don’t enjoy the fact that we are basically beat if we lose the first goal.

I don’t think he’ll get opportunities like he’s had this season and i think he’s lost a fair chunk of our support now as we’ll only ever be one defeat from disaster.

Finally, I really hope he was just playing the game with the media post match on Saturday. Because if he really thought that bunch of players gave everything, he’s lost the plot.

[B.H.F.C]

Where have they been for the last couple of months?

They’ve been quiet as Ross and the team proved them wrong. One bad performance later and the toys are out the pram and they’re out the woodwork again. Folk logging on that ONLY post after a defeat to tell us how bad things are and how everything is wrong at the club.

Depends how you look at it, maybe folk feel Saturday proved them right.

I agree there are some sad people that seem to take great delight in logging on and criticising us when we get beaten, I find that odd. But the criticism has never went away and definitely isn’t based on one game IMO. You probably only need to look as far back to our previous defeat to St Johnstone a few weeks ago.

[bingo70]

Do you know why they’ve remained unconvinced? It’s not often we finish 3rd (certainly as comfortably as we did).

This is after taking us from danger of relegation to missing out on top 6 on average points while also getting to the advanced stages of every cup tournament available.

In the same period being 3rd highest scorers in the league with the 3rd best defence.

Seems strange that folk were unconvinced and if not knee jerking just waiting to pounce.

Because of the performances against hearts when they went down, losing to hearts in the semi final of the Scottish cup when they’d barely kicked a ball this season, never beating one of the old firm. getting hammered by st Johnstone in the semi final of the league cup when we should have been winning it and now losing St Johnstone in the final of the cup and barely trying a leg when we got there.

I know the pros that he has achieved our weigh the above, that’s why he quite rightly won’t be sacked. It’s why he isn’t popular though.

I appreciate this is a Jack Ross out thread but I really do think there’s a big middle ground where you can be not convinced and not bothered if he was to leave without wanting him sacked.

Derbies next season will be key for Ross, rightly or wrongly.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Can only speak for myself but I don’t enjoy watching his team.

You can talk about being the third highest scorers in the league but I don’t enjoy the fact we failed to score in a third of our games. I don’t enjoy the fact that we are basically beat if we lose the first goal.

I don’t think he’ll get opportunities like he’s had this season and i think he’s lost a fair chunk of our support now as we’ll only ever be one defeat from disaster.

Finally, I really hope he was just playing the game with the media post match on Saturday. Because if he really thought that bunch of players gave everything, he’s lost the plot.

I agree on the lack of ideas/capability to come back from a goal behind. I didn’t realise we had failed to score in so many games either.

Huge opportunities missed this season in the cups - can’t deny that. Managers are normally judges on their consistency over a season though and on that front we were easily “best of the rest”. If we want to change the managers goals (either Ross or whoever replaces him) and judge him on one off cup games then that needs to be made clear to him.

Having said that I think we play some good football at times - rarely for 90 minutes but particularly when Boyle is flying we’re good to watch. I think the media over hype it at times but we do play good football- for some reason though there are many that don’t agree.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Because of the performances against hearts when they went down, losing to hearts in the semi final of the Scottish cup when they’d barely kicked a ball this season, never beating one of the old firm. getting hammered by st Johnstone in the semi final of the league cup when we should have been winning it and now losing St Johnstone in the final of the cup and barely trying a leg when we got there.

I know the pros that he has achieved our weigh the above, that’s why he quite rightly won’t be sacked. It’s why he isn’t popular though.

I appreciate this is a Jack Ross out thread but I really do think there’s a big middle ground where you can be not convinced and not bothered if he was to leave without wanting him sacked.

Derbies next season will be key for Ross, rightly or wrongly.

You’ve missed out the derby he won. How many does he need to win next season?

How many old firm games does he need to win next season?is his target 3rd next season or is it 3rd and unbeaten in derbies? Or does he have to win them all?

Do Aberdeen count as a big game next season? Or are we waiting to see how good they are 1st?

Can he win all 4 derbies and finish bottom 6? Is that acceptable?

[easty]

I'm sure that was their team talk. "OK Spoony, you get to the bye line and skin Gogic, Boyle & McGinn then send a pin point cross to the back post where one of the best young defenders in the country won't even look to see who's behind him.

You believe that?

I’ve no doubt that St Johnstone discussed and planned that before the game. Get the ball out to Wotherspoon on the left, and then look to float in a ball for Rooney to win over the top of Doig. Absolutely no doubt that was part of the game plan.

[flash]

Because of the performances against hearts when they went down, losing to hearts in the semi final of the Scottish cup when they’d barely kicked a ball this season, never beating one of the old firm. getting hammered by st Johnstone in the semi final of the league cup when we should have been winning it and now losing St Johnstone in the final of the cup and barely trying a leg when we got there.

I know the pros that he has achieved our weigh the above, that’s why he quite rightly won’t be sacked. It’s why he isn’t popular though.

I appreciate this is a Jack Ross out thread but I really do think there’s a big middle ground where you can be not convinced and not bothered if he was to leave without wanting him sacked.

Derbies next season will be key for Ross, rightly or wrongly.
I am pinning my hopes on the owner now, regardless of who is manager. He seems to be very hands on these days and I am excited to see what our partnerships bring.
The team is going to look pretty different next season and that always gets me going even though it doesn't always work out so well.

[Crab apple]

It’s inconsistent achievement in the big games, there have been a lot of games that, until the goalposts were moved again, were labelled big games on here that we won, but now because we lost the final those are ignored again, like they never happened and are now no longer big games because it doesn’t suit the tantrums.

No arguing with our league results and 3rd is a success which JR and his team deserve plaudits for. If that's enough for you then that's good. For me it's fairly obvious what the big games are. Cup semis and finals, derbies and games againt the Infirm. Ross and his team haven't delivered in these.

[hibsbollah]

Because of the performances against hearts when they went down, losing to hearts in the semi final of the Scottish cup when they’d barely kicked a ball this season, never beating one of the old firm. getting hammered by st Johnstone in the semi final of the league cup when we should have been winning it and now losing St Johnstone in the final of the cup and barely trying a leg when we got there.

I know the pros that he has achieved our weigh the above, that’s why he quite rightly won’t be sacked. It’s why he isn’t popular though.

I appreciate this is a Jack Ross out thread but I really do think there’s a big middle ground where you can be not convinced and not bothered if he was to leave without wanting him sacked.

Derbies next season will be key for Ross, rightly or wrongly.

I’m in that middle ground, I was quite supportive of him initially but I’m unconvinced by him and the cup final has scunnered me more than I thought it would. But sacking him after a 3rd place finish just doesn’t seem right, and there’s the compensation to think about, he’s been here 18 months so I think he’s still got 2 years left on his contract? I think there’s a manager out there who could conjure up something better with this group of players, but do I know who that is on our budget? Do I **** and neither does anyone else on here. I bet that’s going through Ron Gordon’s mind too.

[B.H.F.C]

I agree on the lack of ideas/capability to come back from a goal behind. I didn’t realise we had failed to score in so many games either.

Huge opportunities missed this season in the cups - can’t deny that. Managers are normally judges on their consistency over a season though and on that front we were easily “best of the rest”. If we want to change the managers goals (either Ross or whoever replaces him) and judge him on one off cup games then that needs to be made clear to him.

Having said that I think we play some good football at times - rarely for 90 minutes but particularly when Boyle is flying we’re good to watch. I think the media over hype it at times but we do play good football- for some reason though there are many that don’t agree.

Have saw the comment about changing the goals a few times. I don’t think we have. Ross has spoken, numerous times, about the objective being third AND a trophy. I don’t think he gets better opportunities than this season to deliver that so I’m genuinely not sure where he goes now. I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t be here next season but, as I say, he’s only going to be one game from disaster with a growing number.

I do agree that we are capable of playing some good stuff, particularly on the break, but I don’t think we see enough of it.

[bingo70]

You’ve missed out the derby he won. How many does he need to win next season?

How many old firm games does he need to win next season?is his target 3rd next season or is it 3rd and unbeaten in derbies? Or does he have to win them all?

Do Aberdeen count as a big game next season? Or are we waiting to see how good they are 1st?

Can he win all 4 derbies and finish bottom 6? Is that acceptable?

You asked why people are unconvinced.

The answer I gave is the answer to that question in my opinion. I understand why that’s harsh but it remains the case.

Aberdeen games importance will depend on league positions, I don’t see what’s wrong with that? If they’re a bottom 6 side then no, they won’t be big games. If they’re our closest rivals for 3rd then yes they’ll be big games.

Realistically, winning derbies will win fans around, failing to win them will see pressure continuing to grow. Will winning derbies on there own be enough? It’s extremely unlikely but it would give him a bit breathing space.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No arguing with our league results and 3rd is a success which JR and his team deserve plaudits for. If that's enough for you then that's good. For me it's fairly obvious what the big games are. Cup semis and finals, derbies and games againt the Infirm. Ross and his team haven't delivered in these.

Not Aberdeen anymore? They were a big stick to beat him with.

What win %age vs the old firm is acceptable?

Is it only cup games vs these teams we’re bothered about now that finishing 3rd doesn’t really matter?

[calumhibee1]

No arguing with our league results and 3rd is a success which JR and his team deserve plaudits for. If that's enough for you then that's good. For me it's fairly obvious what the big games are. Cup semis and finals, derbies and games againt the Infirm. Ross and his team haven't delivered in these.

Those are the big games although I’d add in Aberdeen. Hibs put these games in a category of their own, above the games against teams not mentioned so they clearly think so as well. All this pish about the goal posts being moved re big games is really just the most basic of deflection tactics. Nobody moves the goal posts and the only time they don’t appear to be clear is when folk are trying to muddy the waters to try defend our record in them.

[hibsbollah]

Not Aberdeen anymore? They were a big stick to beat him with.

What win %age vs the old firm is acceptable?

Is it only cup games vs these teams we’re bothered about now that finishing 3rd doesn’t really matter?

He’s actually spelled out in the post you’re quoting that Ross DOES deserve plaudits for finishing 3rd.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Have saw the comment about changing the goals a few times. I don’t think we have. Ross has spoken, numerous times, about the objective being third AND a trophy. I don’t think he gets better opportunities than this season to deliver that so I’m genuinely not sure where he goes now. I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t be here next season but, as I say, he’s only going to be one game from disaster with a growing number.

I do agree that we are capable of playing some good stuff, particularly on the break, but I don’t think we see enough of it.

That was his personal goal and he’ll be unhappy he failed that the last hurdle. He’ll have comfortably met the goals the club set him at the start of the season (European qualification).

Even if that was the goal set by the club - which would’ve been pretty ambitious given our history in the last 50-60 years - you wouldn’t normally get sacked for being so close to making such a stretch goal.

[chrisski33]

Ross isnt the first Hibs manager to fail in a cup final. Is there a deeper physiological problem at the club surrounding a cup final? Why do the players never seem to turn up except 2016? For me Ross got the tactics and selection wrong and havent seen much passion from him so surely this rubs off on the players, i still think something else is lacking.

[matty_f]

He’s actually spelled out in the post you’re quoting that Ross DOES deserve plaudits for finishing 3rd.

To be fair it’s a “he deserved plaudits for that and now I’m going to say why he doesn’t” type acknowledgement.

[Crab apple]

Not Aberdeen anymore? They were a big stick to beat him with.

What win %age vs the old firm is acceptable?

Is it only cup games vs these teams we’re bothered about now that finishing 3rd doesn’t really matter?

I've never said 3rd doesn't matter. It's a huge success and doesn't happen very often. Getting to the latter stages of cup competitions without the Infirm doesn't happen often either.

[matty_f]

That was his personal goal and he’ll be unhappy he failed that the last hurdle. He’ll have comfortably met the goals the club set him at the start of the season (European qualification).

Even if that was the goal set by the club - which would’ve been pretty ambitious given our history in the last 50-60 years - you wouldn’t normally get sacked for being so close to making such a stretch goal.

If we’re going to sack every manager that says our target is to win a cup then doesn’t win it, then we should hope Ron Gordon installs a revolving door at the stadium.

[Crab apple]

He’s actually spelled out in the post you’re quoting that Ross DOES deserve plaudits for finishing 3rd.

Thanks. I thought it was clear too.

[Since452]

Neil Lennon finished 4th and got pumped out the Scottish cup 4th round by Hearts and I can't remember a Lennon Out thread. Mental

[calumhibee1]

To be fair it’s a “he deserved plaudits for that and now I’m going to say why he doesn’t” type acknowledgement.

To be fair, it’s not at all.

[DaveF]

To be fair it’s a “he deserved plaudits for that and now I’m going to say why he doesn’t” type acknowledgement.

And that's how a lot of fans see it. That abject excuse of an effort on Saturday has swept aside the excellent 3rd place finish. I know it has for me. I'm actually angrier now about it than I was on Saturday.

[Crab apple]

To be fair it’s a “he deserved plaudits for that and now I’m going to say why he doesn’t” type acknowledgement.

It wasn't but thanks for putting your own spin on my post.

[DaveF]

If we’re going to sack every manager that says our target is to win a cup then doesn’t win it, then we should hope Ron Gordon installs a revolving door at the stadium.

Come on Matty, that's crap and you know it.

The manner of the semi and final defeats is the story here.

We all know not to expect cup wins, but we do expect the team to compete.

[B.H.F.C]

If we’re going to sack every manager that says our target is to win a cup then doesn’t win it, then we should hope Ron Gordon installs a revolving door at the stadium.

I never actually said sack him for that reason. Was just debating whether or not any goals had actually been retrospectively set. I think you knew that, really.

[Since452]

Come on Matty, that's crap and you know it.

The manner of the semi and final defeats is the story here.

We all know not to expect cup wins, but we do expect the team to compete.

Do we forget about our semi final win or does that not suit the narrative?

[Hibs90]

My biggest issue with the “Ross out” thinking is that it’s completely reactionary to one game. That game was significant - massive even - and it was a cluster**** of huge proportions, for which Ross bears ultimate responsibility.


It's not really reactionary to one game though is it? It's 2 semi final defeats and 1 final defeat and for some people it's more than that if you include some of the performances or other results in the league.

At the start of the season would we all have taken 3rd place and a cup final and another semi-final? Absolutely. It's when you look at it within the context of the competition and the season as a whole, that it's simply not good enough and the manager has failed, as have the players.

[The Wireless]

Yes it was always first goal wins Matty. Good post, spot on, thought so myself and was worried if we didn't get it. Think we all knew how St J would play it out.

Just wondered why with over an hour to go in a Scottish Cup Final their 1st goal wins it? That would never be something that would even come into my thinking and if you thought like this it would say everything about your self belief and ability as a player to raise your game and winning mentality. You play at Hampden in the Scottish Cup final against St Johnstone, go 1 goal down after a third of the game and don’t see a way back, you are big time at the wrong club and in the wrong job.

[B.H.F.C]

Do we forget about our semi final win or does that not suit the narrative?

People seem happy to forget about defeats if it doesn’t suit their narrative. Works both ways eh?

[bingo70]

Do we forget about our semi final win or does that not suit the narrative?

Do we take into account how ***** Dundee United are before lavishing him in praise for beating a bottom 6 team?

In all these great cup runs he’s getting praise for, did we manage to beat a top 6 side or did we get beat every time we came up against a semi decent side? I know we never in the Scottish, I can’t remember the league cup or last seasons cup.

[B.H.F.C]

Come on Matty, that's crap and you know it.

The manner of the semi and final defeats is the story here.

We all know not to expect cup wins, but we do expect the team to compete.

Same here. And it’s not all directed at Ross. I genuinely don’t care about seeing a single one of those players in a Hibs top ever again for the way the applied themselves on Saturday.

[bingo70]

Just wondered why with over an hour to go in a Scottish Cup Final their 1st goal wins it? That would never be something that would even come into my thinking and if you thought like this it would say everything about your self belief and ability as a player to raise your game and winning mentality. You play at Hampden in the Scottish Cup final against St Johnstone, go 1 goal down after a third of the game and don’t see a way back, you are big time at the wrong club and in the wrong job.

Nowhere near enough is being made of that.

We gave up as soon as they scored. Why is that just being accepted as ‘just what we do’?

[Danderhall Hibs]

He’s actually spelled out in the post you’re quoting that Ross DOES deserve plaudits for finishing 3rd.

I know but then says “if that’s good enough for you” which suggests he expects more.

[calumhibee1]

It's not really reactionary to one game though is it? It's 2 semi final defeats and 1 final defeat.

At the start of the season would we all have taken 3rd place and a cup final and another semi-final? Absolutely. It's when you look at it within the context of the competition and the season as a whole, that it's simply not good enough and the manager has failed, as have the players.

:agree:

I’m convinced some on here would still be claiming we’d had an excellent season had it been Edinburgh City, Brora and Kelly Hearts we’d been beaten by in the 3 defeat at Hampden.

I mean we made it to semi finals and finals still, that’s all that matters isn’t it? It was put down in the targets at the start of the season so we should just be pleased to be there.

[B.H.F.C]

Do we take into account how ***** Dundee United are before lavishing him in praise for beating a bottom 6 team?

In all these great cup runs he’s getting praise for, did we manage to beat a top 6 side or did we get beat every time we came up against a semi decent side? I know we never in the Scottish, I can’t remember the league cup or last seasons cup.

Never played a single top flight team in last seasons Scottish Cup and played one top flight side, and lost, in the League Cup.

[hibsbollah]

To be fair it’s a “he deserved plaudits for that and now I’m going to say why he doesn’t” type acknowledgement.

I just think there needs to be a bit of balance Matty. Does he deserve credit for 3rd? Yes. Do some defeats hurt more than others and the nature of those defeats leave more of a lasting impression than others? Also yes.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Do we take into account how ***** Dundee United are before lavishing him in praise for beating a bottom 6 team?

In all these great cup runs he’s getting praise for, did we manage to beat a top 6 side or did we get beat every time we came up against a semi decent side? I know we never in the Scottish, I can’t remember the league cup or last seasons cup.

You can do if you want. I’m sure if we’d won on Saturday we’d have folk dismissing the achievement because we hadn’t beaten a top 4 side.

Too many folk flip flop on expectations.

[bingo70]

Never played a single top flight team in last seasons Scottish Cup and played one top flight side, and lost, in the League Cup.

Well that won’t show up on any record books but it does give a bit more perspective on how well we did to get that far in these competitions.

Of course we can only beat the teams in front of us, it does however show that holding these cup runs as a great success is a bit misleading, if that’s the right word and I don’t think it is.

[DaveF]

Same here. And it’s not all directed at Ross. I genuinely don’t care about seeing a single one of those players in a Hibs top ever again for the way the applied themselves on Saturday.

I'm the same. Painful to say but there is not a chance in hell a hearts team fold like that. It was pathetic and is going to taint that lot for as long as they remain at the club.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Never played a single top flight team in last seasons Scottish Cup and played one top flight side, and lost, in the League Cup.

Played all the top flight teams in the league at least 3 times and finished 3rd by a distance.

Hopefully we get harder cup runs next season eh?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Well that won’t show up on any record books but it does give a bit more perspective on how well we did to get that far in these competitions.

Of course we can only beat the teams in front of us, it does however show that holding these cup runs as a great success is a bit misleading, if that’s the right word and I don’t think it is.

I think you’re right - trying to measure based on the unpredictability of the cup is a difficult thing to do. If only there was a different measure we could use :hilarious

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm the same. Painful to say but there is not a chance in hell a hearts team fold like that. It was pathetic and is going to taint that lot for as long as they remain at the club.

They folded at a stage of the cup we didn’t even play in Dave.

[DaveF]

Played all the top flight teams in the league at least 3 times and finished 3rd by a distance.

Hopefully we get harder cup runs next season eh?

If we'd lost at Aberdeen it would have been a last game nailbiter. Fine margins eh (as someone likes to say)

[Danderhall Hibs]

If we'd lost at Aberdeen it would have been a last game nailbiter. Fine margins eh (as someone likes to say)

Fine margin = 7 points. Luckily we won that big game. I think it was a big game?

[DaveF]

They folded at a stage of the cup we didn’t even play in Dave.

Aye, very good, but even having a laugh at them after Saturday is a bit rich. You know fine well what I mean.

[MWHIBBIES]

Neil Lennon finished 4th and got pumped out the Scottish cup 4th round by Hearts and I can't remember a Lennon Out thread. Mental

Thats actually a good comparison. You have to think this place would be more chill if we had lost to Rangers in round 4, and Saints had gone on to win it then.

[DaveF]

Fine margin = 7 points. Luckily we won that big game. I think it was a big game?

It was. As was Saturday but you seem happy to overlook that.

[B.H.F.C]

I'm the same. Painful to say but there is not a chance in hell a hearts team fold like that. It was pathetic and is going to taint that lot for as long as they remain at the club.

I think the thing that concerns me most is that it wasn’t a complete surprise. We’ve seen it plenty times over the course of the season. Capable of being good and capable of doing that. And not a great deal in between. We’re now in a position where we’re basically accepting of the fact that, if we lose the first goal, the game is done. That’s not good.

[Numptie]

You all can’t have it both ways, it can’t be about being the 3rd best team over the season (which we were), but the season only matters if you win a cup. I’m not happy with how we played on Saturday, and worse was that I thought that’s how it would play out. But even in the cups, this season, we did better than Hearts, Aberdeen etc – but failed at the final steps. Were just not that bad a team, but not that good a team either – that’s football

[bingo70]

You can do if you want. I’m sure if we’d won on Saturday we’d have folk dismissing the achievement because we hadn’t beaten a top 4 side.

Too many folk flip flop on expectations.

I just don’t think it’s as black and white as you are suggesting.

Ross deserves praise for 3rd in the league, he has built the 3rd best team in the country this season. He quite rightly wont get sacked because of a decent league campaign and it won’t even be on the owners radar to be considering it. I’ve got concerns about next season but time will tell if I’m right or wrong.

The good cup runs aren’t as impressive as they look on first sight when you drill a bit deeper to look at the teams we played to get there. We’ve managed to get to the latter stages of three cup competitions beating two premier league teams, even then it went to penalties against a bottom 6 side in one of them.

[matty_f]

I'm the same. Painful to say but there is not a chance in hell a hearts team fold like that. It was pathetic and is going to taint that lot for as long as they remain at the club.

Hearts that lost to Brora and Alloa in the cups?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Aye, very good, but even having a laugh at them after Saturday is a bit rich. You know fine well what I mean.

I’m not laughing at that anymore - they were used as an example of a team that wouldn’t fold like we did. I think St Johnstone are the only team that could be used in your example.

I’m raging about Saturday- I can’t tell you how much. I just think the managers done enough to not be sacked.

[superfurryhibby]

Just wondered why with over an hour to go in a Scottish Cup Final their 1st goal wins it? That would never be something that would even come into my thinking and if you thought like this it would say everything about your self belief and ability as a player to raise your game and winning mentality. You play at Hampden in the Scottish Cup final against St Johnstone, go 1 goal down after a third of the game and don’t see a way back, you are big time at the wrong club and in the wrong job.

Yep, dare i say that this attitude is the epitome of accepting mediocrity?

NO game plan, tactically inflexible, players lacking fire, wrong team selection, failure of Ross to acknowledge that any of this occurred. Instead we get some crap platitude, FFS. He should be apologising to fans for that absolutely gash display.

Signing your dud mate and appointing Jambo's to the backroom team whilst getting rid of guys like Tam McCourt, not clever.

The big question for me is does Ron Gordon find Ross acceptable to him? There has been significant investment in the team. Yes, we ran with a smaller squad and allowed the likes of Mallan and Allan to go on loan, but I believe that there has been more money pumped in to the side than anytime since the McLeish era?

With the likely transfers out this summer, will our owner trust Ross to pick the right players, given his very mixed success in doing so, so far?

People's views on Ross are allowed to change. There's been a lot of leeway granted and many of us have ebbed and flowed over the course of a season which promised to deliver glory, but ended up slapping us hard in the coupon. It's not hard to see why there are doubts about our manager.

[matty_f]

I just don’t think it’s as black and white as you are suggesting.

Ross deserves praise for 3rd in the league, he has built the 3rd best team in the country this season. He quite rightly wont get sacked because of a decent league campaign and it won’t even be on the owners radar to be considering it. I’ve got concerns about next season but time will tell if I’m right or wrong.

The good cup runs aren’t as impressive as they look on first sight when you drill a bit deeper to look at the teams we played to get there. We’ve managed to get to the latter stages of three cup competitions beating two premier league teams, even then it went to penalties against a bottom 6 side in one of them.

Motherwell and Dundee United in the Cup easy games?

[Crab apple]

I know but then says “if that’s good enough for you” which suggests he expects more.

Geez. For clarity, Ross and the team deserve plaudits for third. It's a great achievement which doesn't happen often. And yes I do want more, particularly when we are in the latter stages of cup competitions without the Infirm.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It was. As was Saturday but you seem happy to overlook that.

Not at all mate - I’m furious about Saturday. I just don’t like how it’s being pinned on one person. I don’t like the pile on mentality.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hearts that lost to Brora and Alloa in the cups?

Na, Hearts are a tough, big strong, mentally awesome team who never lose when they should win.

Except all those times they have massively bottled it.

[matty_f]

For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not justifying Saturday or saying I’m ok with it or that it was acceptable or i was happy just to be there. I’m still very, very sore over it.

I blame Ross and I blame the players.

For that performance and that result, they are all culpable.

[Alex Trager]

I'm the same. Painful to say but there is not a chance in hell a hearts team fold like that. It was pathetic and is going to taint that lot for as long as they remain at the club.

I’m not sure what hearts have to do with it, a weird thing to bring in.

But because you have, they made Scottish footballing history this season, getting put out of the cup by a highland league team.

They also got ****ged by Alloa in the league cup.

They also got relegated last season.

That’s a lot of folding.

Hibs were ***** on saturday, really *****, but hearts are not the yardstick to measure us up against. If you want to compare us, compare us against the cup double winning side this season.

[B.H.F.C]

Not at all mate - I’m furious about Saturday. I just don’t like how it’s being pinned on one person. I don’t like the pile on mentality.

Are you ignoring the various posts/threads about the players?

It’s definitely not being pinned on one person.

[Jones28]

I was curious as to what Sunderland had done since Ross was sacked in October 2019. They're on to their second manager since Ross was sacked, one of them finishing 8th after the curtailment of last season and the other has just failed in their bid to even get to the play-off final, losing to Lincoln.

Getting a new manager isn't always the silver bullet it's made out to be: beware Terry Butcher :greengrin

The only ones from the Premiership we would be considering would be Davidson who I don't think would come, or Jim Goodwin who I think would jump at the chance. I know whose style of football I'd rather see.

[Hiber-nation]

Not at all mate - I’m furious about Saturday. I just don’t like how it’s being pinned on one person. I don’t like the pile on mentality.

Had he appeared visibly upset, a bit angry, even slightly affected in his post match interview there would be far less of a "pile on". Anyway almost every player except the keeper has been getting slaughtered on here, not just Ross.

[The Modfather]

Hearts that lost to Brora and Alloa in the cups?

Hearts’ goal at the start of the season was promotion. They comfortably achieved that. Would you say they had a good season and the Hearts fans should see it as such?

I think Ross is his own worst enemy at times. Just when we turn a corner we then throw in another shocker. E.g. we clinched 3rd up at Aberdeen. I didn’t see the game but by all accounts was a mature and thoroughly deserved win and potentially a bit of a statement. A few weeks later and we then look like we’ve learned no lessons from the previous St Johnstone games and simply tried again what hasn’t worked. With a somewhat inevitable conclusion, the performance more so than the actual result.

He has earned next season after finishing 3rd so shouldn’t be sacked. However I’m far from convinced by him or this Hibs team.

[jeffers]

Surprised anyone thinks those wanting Ross out feel that way purely down to Saturday. Fwiw I’m of the same opinion as Bingo, I’m not calling for his head, but if he left I genuinely wouldn’t be bothered. Finishing 3rd was a good achievement but it was done so on the back of being backed when many teams weren’t and the worst Aberdeen side in close to a decade.

He’s built a team that are unable to come back to win a game when going behind. He has a Plan A that when it works is effective, when it doesn’t he’s clearly been found wanting. He’s failed to find a way to beat a decent St Johnstone side and continues to employ pretty much the same formation and tactics in games against them in the hope one time it may work. Clearly he’s learned nothing about how to play against them, he’s not a rookie manager, but he’s had his arse handed to him twice now by one who is.

He’s had fantastic opportunities to win a trophy this season. In one he lost to a team who had barely played and in the other two his team have put up two of the most pathetic performances I’ve seen from a Hibs side at Hampden. I can accept losses when the team turn up, but Saturday in particular was spineless and Ross comes out afterwards and says he couldn’t fault the players ? WTF.

So no, wanting Ross out for me, and I suspect many others, is not a reaction purely to Saturday.

[Since90+2]

If we were knocked out the cups in the early rounds but went on to achieve 3rd it wouldn't even be suggested he should be sacked.

[bingo70]

Motherwell and Dundee United in the Cup easy games?

About as easy as you could realistically hope for.

Both bottom 6 sides and the only ones we played on route to a final and 2 semi finals.

Surely conceding we got very fortunate cup draws in these 3 tournaments is fair?

[B.H.F.C]

If we were knocked out the cups in the early rounds but went on to achieve 3rd it wouldn't even be suggested he should be sacked.

If we’d been knocked out of the cups by a Stranraer or whoever we drew at that point, I don’t think the chat would have been too different to be honest.

[He's here!]

I'm the same. Painful to say but there is not a chance in hell a hearts team fold like that. It was pathetic and is going to taint that lot for as long as they remain at the club.

Bizarre analogy when you consider the teams which knocked Hearts out of this season's cup competitions. The Brora result was the worst in the club's history and had it happened to us then I think we would have had genuine grounds to call for the manager's head.

Saturday's dreadful showing was infuriating and will do my head in for a long time to come, but I'd take getting to a Scottish Cup final and losing to St Johnstone over losing to a Highland League side in the preliminary rounds any day.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Are you ignoring the various posts/threads about the players?

It’s definitely not being pinned on one person.

No - but this thread has the most traction by a distance.

[Since90+2]

If we’d been knocked out of the cups by a Stranraer or whoever we drew at that point, I don’t think the chat would have been too different to be honest.

I disagree. It would have been seen as a positive end to the season by us securing 3rd place and the cup would be a distant memory.

The fact he's actually got to the final is in a strange way counting against him.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Had he appeared visibly upset, a bit angry, even slightly affected in his post match interview there would be far less of a "pile on". Anyway almost every player except the keeper has been getting slaughtered on here, not just Ross.

It certainly looked as this hasn’t helped.

I’m never convinced by a manager that stands and screams and shouts for the sake of the fans though. Mickey Mellon does that - irritates me but I get some see it as a good thing.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I disagree. It would have been seen as a positive end to the season by us securing 3rd place and the cup would be a distant memory.

The fact he's actually got to the final is in a strange way counting against him.

Totally agree. Losing to Motherwell on penalties would’ve been a safer outcome for him.

[sleeping giant]

I disagree. It would have been seen as a positive end to the season by us securing 3rd place and the cup would be a distant memory.

The fact he's actually got to the final is in a strange way counting against him.

Agree completely .

[B.H.F.C]

I disagree. It would have been seen as a positive end to the season by us securing 3rd place and the cup would be a distant memory.

The fact he's actually got to the final is in a strange way counting against him.

I think it losing the final, in the manner we did, that is counting against him rather than getting to the final.

[Since90+2]

I think it losing the final, in the manner we did, that is counting against him rather than getting to the final.

But if Motherwell had beat us on penalties and then we went in to get 3rd you can guarantee there'd hardly be anyone calling for him to go.

[bingo70]

I think it losing the final, in the manner we did, that is counting against him rather than getting to the final.

Similar happened to Pat Fenlon and he never recovered either.

Losing the way he did to Hearts and then getting thumped in Europe went a long way to costing him his job, when in reality we should have just been happy to get there, apparently.

[Stuart93]

I think it losing the final, in the manner we did, that is counting against him rather than getting to the final.

Yep, don’t think the players or manager would be getting the same pelters if the team actually had a go and had put everything into it. Half of them looked like they couldn’t be arsed being there.

If we’d came up just short or were unlucky they might’ve got away with it but the display the team put in justifies the reaction from the fans

For him to come out and say the players gave it their all was just absolute ****ing nonsense

[Danderhall Hibs]

Similar happened to Pat Fenlon and he never recovered either.

Losing the way he did to Hearts and then getting thumped in Europe went a long way to costing him his job, when in reality we should have just been happy to get there, apparently.

You’re twisting what’s being said - I get it.

Did fenlon ever finish 3rd?

[bingo70]

Yep, don’t think the players or manager would be getting the same pelters if the team actually had a go and had put everything into it. Half of them looked like they couldn’t be arsed being there.

If we’d came up just short or were unlucky they might’ve got away with it but the display the team put in justifies the reaction from the fans

If we’d lost 2-1 or 3-2 for example he wouldn’t be getting the stick he is.

A team he’s in charge of downed tools after conceding one goal in a cup final, after what’s happened at Hampden recently for us of course that’s going to cause a negative reaction.

[jeffers]

Yep, don’t think the players or manager would be getting the same pelters if the team actually had a go and had put everything into it. Half of them looked like they couldn’t be arsed being there.

If we’d came up just short or were unlucky they might’ve got away with it but the display the team put in justifies the reaction from the fans

For him to come out and say the players gave it their all was just absolute ****ing nonsense

Absolutely. And let’s not forget he signed/brought into the side more than half of that team on Saturday and continually tells us what a great group he works with on a daily basis. Doesn’t the buck stop with him ?

[chrisski33]

I was curious as to what Sunderland had done since Ross was sacked in October 2019. They're on to their second manager since Ross was sacked, one of them finishing 8th after the curtailment of last season and the other has just failed in their bid to even get to the play-off final, losing to Lincoln.

Getting a new manager isn't always the silver bullet it's made out to be: beware Terry Butcher :greengrin

The only ones from the Premiership we would be considering would be Davidson who I don't think would come, or Jim Goodwin who I think would jump at the chance. I know whose style of football I'd rather see.

And whose is that?
Some go on about what style of football they want to watch but look at st.johnstone, not the greatest silky smooth football but have strong work hard team spirit thats won them two cups in one season. Id take that over a team that has let us and the club down in the cup too many times

[bingo70]

You’re twisting what’s being said - I get it.

Did fenlon ever finish 3rd?

No, what’s your point? Bearing in mind I don’t want Ross sacked.

Fenlon did well to get us into games, the results of which ultimately went a long way to costing him his job.

I don’t get why that’s twisting anything? That’s literally what is being discussed here with Ross.

He’s not going to get sacked for finishing 3rd, results like these affect the credit in his bank though. Exactly what happened with Fenlon.

[DaveF]

Totally agree. Losing to Motherwell on penalties would’ve been a safer outcome for him.

Nonsense. Bhfc nails it above. Getting to the final was great. The performance and subsequent defence of said performance was abject.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No, what’s your point? Bearing in mind I don’t want Ross sacked.

Fenlon did well to get us into games, the results of which ultimately went a long way to costing him his job.

I don’t get why that’s twisting anything? That’s literally what is being discussed here with Ross.

He’s not going to get sacked for finishing 3rd, results like these affect the credit in his bank though. Exactly what happened with Fenlon.

You said “apparently should be happy to get there”. No one said that.

It reads like he’s not getting any credit in the bank for finishing 3rd, whereas fenlon got his credits from getting to finals?

[jeffers]

You said “apparently should be happy to get there”. No one said that.

It reads like he’s not getting any credit in the bank for finishing 3rd, whereas fenlon got his credits from getting to finals?

He’s getting lots of credit for finishing 3rd, but it’s interesting to me anyway that a lot of the blame for Saturday is being deflected towards the players, yet I’ve seen very little praise of them for finishing 3rd.

[Stuart93]

You said “apparently should be happy to get there”. No one said that.

It reads like he’s not getting any credit in the bank for finishing 3rd, whereas fenlon got his credits from getting to finals?

His credit for finishing 3rd is him keeping his job after 3 defeats at Hampden in one season.

[Danderhall Hibs]

He’s getting lots of credit for finishing 3rd, but it’s interesting to me anyway that a lot of the blame for Saturday is being deflected towards the players, yet I’ve seen very little praise of them for finishing 3rd.

Are you kidding? Nisbet, Boyle and Doidge have been the talk of the board. Add in Newells many POTY nominations and Gogic’s value to the team - they’ve had plenty and let us down massively on Saturday.

[Danderhall Hibs]

His credit for finishing 3rd is him keeping his job after 3 defeats at Hampden in one season.

As has been covered it would’ve looked a more successful season if we went out the cups earlier. One for the club to consider when setting goals. :hilarious

[bingo70]

You said “apparently should be happy to get there”. No one said that.

It reads like he’s not getting any credit in the bank for finishing 3rd, whereas fenlon got his credits from getting to finals?

I’m saying abject performance in these games negates the credit in the bank for finishing 3rd.

He isn’t going to get sacked for finishing 3rd, of course he isn’t. Lose the first derby next season, how do you think it’ll go with a large section of the support? Do you think they’ll just shrug their shoulders and say; ach well we finished 3rd last season so that’s alright or will pressure start to build on him again?

That’s not me asking what you think should happen, it’s what you think will happen. I’ve seen this movie before and I’ve got a fair idea how it ends.

If you also throw into the mix our terrible home form last season, if that doesn’t improve either then he’ll really struggle to get fans back on side.

There’s a flip side though, win the first derby and matches like the one at the weekend will soon be forgotten. Ross isn’t getting sacked any time soon, he’s going to get the chance to right what he got wrong this season. I personally don’t think he will but only time will tell.

[Stuart93]

As has been covered it would’ve looked a more successful season if we went out the cups earlier. One for the club to consider when setting goals. :hilarious

Victim of his own success in a way.

I think you need to look at the way we lost whilst at Hampden and who against. 3 perfectly winnable ties and we lost all 3.

Let’s stop treating a defeat against championship hearts and 2 defeats against st johnstone as a positive for us getting there in the first place. That attitude ****ing reeks of mediocrity.

[Jones28]

And whose is that?
Some go on about what style of football they want to watch but look at st.johnstone, not the greatest silky smooth football but have strong work hard team spirit thats won them two cups in one season. Id take that over a team that has let us and the club down in the cup too many times

I'd have Goodwins style of play every day of the week. Imagine watching that week in week out? Hibs supporters would round on it very quickly, the same way that Ross gets pelters for having an "eye-bleeding" style of play.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I’m saying abject performance in these games negates the credit in the bank for finishing 3rd.

He isn’t going to get sacked for finishing 3rd, of course he isn’t. Lose the first derby next season, how do you think it’ll go with a large section of the support? Do you think they’ll just shrug their shoulders and say; ach well we finished 3rd last season so that’s alright or will pressure start to build on him again?

That’s not me asking what you think should happen, it’s what you think will happen. I’ve seen this movie before and I’ve got a fair idea how it ends.

If you also throw into the mix our terrible home form last season, if that doesn’t improve either then he’ll really struggle to get fans back on side.

There’s a flip side though, win the first derby and matches like the one at the weekend will soon be forgotten. Ross isn’t getting sacked any time soon, he’s going to get the chance to right what he got wrong this season. I personally don’t think he will but only time will tell.

It’s a worry. The problem is as we’ve just seen if he wins the first derby it won’t go away, it’ll just sit dormant until the next opportunity to attack and dismiss the win.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'd have Goodwins style of play every day of the week. Imagine watching that week in week out? Hibs supporters would round on it very quickly, the same way that Ross gets pelters for having an "eye-bleeding" style of play.

Goodwin had 3 big games this season and lost them all.

[jeffers]

Are you kidding? Nisbet, Boyle and Doidge have been the talk of the board. Add in Newells many POTY nominations and Gogic’s value to the team - they’ve had plenty and let us down massively on Saturday.

I’m talking about in this thread. I keep reading on it that Ross deserves credit for finishing 3rd. Yet when we put in an abject performance like Saturdays a lot of the deflection is down to the players, who were admittedly ****, not the man who signed half of them and put out the same team with the same tactics as had previously failed against St Johnstone. It’s his team and the buck stops with him.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I’m talking about in this thread. I keep reading on it that Ross deserves credit for finishing 3rd. Yet when we put in an abject performance like Saturdays a lot of the deflection is down to the players, who were admittedly ****, not the man who signed half of them and put out the same team with the same tactics as had previously failed against St Johnstone. It’s his team and the buck stops with him.

This is the Jack Ross (out) thread so is the place to discuss and defend him.

I’m really disappointed in Saturday - all of them, from the way we set up to the way the players showed no desire to get back into it.

[Jones28]

He had 3 big games this season and lost them all.

He also finished third. We beat Aberdeen at Pittodrie for the first time since 2012 to secure third place. That was a big game won, as well as the semi against Dundee United.

[Danderhall Hibs]

He also finished third. We beat Aberdeen at Pittodrie for the first time since 2012 to secure third place. That was a big game won, as well as the semi against Dundee United.

Sorry I was talking about Goodwin.

[bingo70]

He had 3 big games this season and lost them all.

Against teams better than his though?

[jeffers]

This is the Jack Ross (out) thread so is the place to discuss and defend him.

I’m really disappointed in Saturday - all of them, from the way we set up to the way the players showed no desire to get back into it.

Fair enough, but as I’ve said it’s his side, he’s signed/brought in half the starting 11 on Saturday plus extending the contract of another. He has to be held accountable for putting together a side who failed to turn up in a national final and gave up once they went a goal behind. He’s signed a team without characters, without leaders, who, when the chips are down have no one to step up to the plate.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Against teams better than his though?

No - just St Johnstone, Livi and Hamilton. The first 2 were direct competition for top 6 and Hamilton were relegated.

[matty_f]

Victim of his own success in a way.

I think you need to look at the way we lost whilst at Hampden and who against. 3 perfectly winnable ties and we lost all 3.

Let’s stop treating a defeat against championship hearts and 2 defeats against st johnstone as a positive for us getting there in the first place. That attitude ****ing reeks of mediocrity.

4 perfectly winnable ties and we lost 3.

[Hibrandenburg]

Do you know why they’ve remained unconvinced? It’s not often we finish 3rd (certainly as comfortably as we did).

This is after taking us from danger of relegation to missing out on top 6 on average points while also getting to the advanced stages of every cup tournament available.

In the same period being 3rd highest scorers in the league with the 3rd best defence.

Seems strange that folk were unconvinced and if not knee jerking just waiting to pounce.

Add to that that Hibs were 1 of only 3 teams to finish the season with a positive goal difference and it makes the doom and gloomers sound like nutters. If we constantly perform like we did this season, the odd cup win will likely follow. If it's guaranteed success you're after, then maybe Hibs aren't the team for you.

[Stuart93]

4 perfectly winnable ties and we lost 3.

Apologies forgot about the dundee utd game. I’m not sure it makes it sound that much better though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Apologies forgot about the dundee utd game. I’m not sure it makes it sound that much better though.

It does - it’s immediately a 25% increase. :wink:

[Jones28]

Sorry I was talking about Goodwin.

Ahh my mistake - so what were his big games that he lost?

[fiolex1]

1 dimensional, great away from home as teams don’t sit in. We really struggle when teams sit in as we don’t know what to do. The big plan on Sat was score first so that St Johnstone would open up and chase the game , so we could get behind them.

[MWHIBBIES]

He had 3 big games this season and lost them all.

So 2 semi finals were big games, but the other 1 wasn't?

Dundee United was a big game. So was Aberdeen away. Both huge games.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Ahh my mistake - so what were his big games that he lost?

2 semi finals vs St Johnstone and Livi and the last game of the regular season v Hamilton to miss out on top 6 (to st Johnstone).

Hamilton was actually a draw but losing a late goal cost them top 6.

[Danderhall Hibs]

So 2 semi finals were big games, but the other 1 wasn't?

Dundee United was a big game. So was Aberdeen away. Both huge games.

I’ll change my post to be clear - I was talking about Goodwin (as the post I replied to mentioned him).

[Smartie]

I'd have Goodwins style of play every day of the week. Imagine watching that week in week out? Hibs supporters would round on it very quickly, the same way that Ross gets pelters for having an "eye-bleeding" style of play.

If Jack Ross fancies winning at Hampden 4 times in a season, sticking 2 trophies in the cabinet and beating the champions at Ibrox along the way, then he's welcome to do so with whichever style of play he chooses.

I'd settle for watching a team that rarely lost goals and still had players like Ali McCann, David Wotherspoon and Glenn Middleton in it.

[Smartie]

Apologies forgot about the dundee utd game. I’m not sure it makes it sound that much better though.

It's probably worth noting that that game was put to bed with a goal that was miles offside as well.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If Jack Ross fancies winning at Hampden 4 times in a season, sticking 2 trophies in the cabinet and beating the champions at Ibrox along the way, then he's welcome to do so with whichever style of play he chooses.

I'd settle for watching a team that rarely lost goals and still had players like Ali McCann, David Wotherspoon and Glenn Middleton in it.

Interestingly 2 of those players were not deemed good enough in a similar way to Jack Ross is currently being judged.

9 goals at home all season would have a manager hounded out at Hibs.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It's probably worth noting that that game was put to bed with a goal that was miles offside as well.

Why?

[MWHIBBIES]

It's probably worth noting that that game was put to bed with a goal that was miles offside as well.

Surely its also worth mentioning we were denied a stonewall penalty in minute 90 vs Hearts, then missed one, before they got one?

Small margins.

[bingo70]

Surely its also worth mentioning we were denied a stonewall penalty in minute 90 vs Hearts, then missed one, before they got one?

Small margins.

Playing a lower league team who had barely kicked a ball shouldn’t have come down to fine margins. We should have blown them out of sight with a fast high energy start.

[flash]

Surely its also worth mentioning we were denied a stonewall penalty in minute 90 vs Hearts, then missed one, before they got one?

Small margins.

Fine margins not small.

[MWHIBBIES]

Playing a lower league team who had barely kicked a ball shouldn’t have come down to fine margins. We should have blown them out of sight with a fast high energy start.

Should it not? How did we win the cup from the championship, and reach 2 other semi finals then?

does the better team on paper start a goal up or?

Its Hearts, who built their whole summer around beating us. Obviously it came down to FINE margins.

[MWHIBBIES]

Fine margins not small.

:faf:

I'm sure you understood my point.

Sorted it for you anyway pal

[matty_f]

Playing a lower league team who had barely kicked a ball shouldn’t have come down to fine margins. We should have blown them out of sight with a fast high energy start.

This is the sort of picking and choosing that’s getting questioned.

Something goes our way - doesn’t count.

Something goes against us - very important and totally valid.

[matty_f]

Interestingly 2 of those players were not deemed good enough in a similar way to Jack Ross is currently being judged.

9 goals at home all season would have a manager hounded out at Hibs.
Having the third best strike rate in the league is getting the manager hounded with many complaints about the style of play emerging again now that we’ve lost a game.

[flash]

:faf:

I'm sure you understood my point.

Sorted it for you anyway pal

I wasn't having a go at you, more the manager's post match assertion.

[bingo70]

This is the sort of picking and choosing that’s getting questioned.

Something goes our way - doesn’t count.

Something goes against us - very important and totally valid.

Maybe fair. We should have blown Hearts away from the first whistle in that game though, every advantage was on our side and ultimately we are a much better team than them. The fact is we never though and we were left moaning at the end about fine margins.

I remember listening to your podcast the day before that game and IIRC you made that exact point. I remember feeling reassured as I agreed with everything you said.

I suppose what I’m saying is, indirectly, it was all your fault we lost that game.

[superfurryhibby]

Having the third best strike rate in the league is getting the manager hounded with many complaints about the style of play emerging again now that we’ve lost a game.

A Scottish Cup final in the most abject manner possible against a team with a budget half of our own?

Do you really expect people just to shrug the shoulders and think, well, there's always next season?

[Smartie]

This is the sort of picking and choosing that’s getting questioned.

Something goes our way - doesn’t count.

Something goes against us - very important and totally valid.

I think the majority of us are perfectly capable of acknowledging both the rough and the smooth.

That's why the majority of us will fall within that group of folk who fall a bit short of wanting him gone but still think he's got an awful lot of proving still to do to fully win us over.

1 win in 4 games at Hampden against St Johnstone twice, Dundee United and lower league dross HMFC - is that acceptable? That's rough and smooth, decisions that went for us and against us all taken into consideration.

Jack Ross has a big summer ahead. In fairness to him, I think his transfer business so far is a huge tick in the positive column so we should have reason to expect that Hibs/ Mathie/ Ross will improve us further. I also think we stand to lose some overhyped players as a team we might be better off without.

You'd expect a few of the teams around us to improve though, and I can't help but think this season's third place and Hampden failures will be the pinnacle of his time with us.

[DaveF]

A Scottish Cup final in the most abject manner possible against a team with a budget half of our own?

Do you really expect people just to shrug the shoulders and think, well, there's always next season?

Seems like it. While pointing at 3rd place as confirmation of our greatness.

[Jones28]

2 semi finals vs St Johnstone and Livi and the last game of the regular season v Hamilton to miss out on top 6 (to st Johnstone).

Hamilton was actually a draw but losing a late goal cost them top 6.

:aok:

Goodwins St Mirren at least gave themselves more of a chance against St J than we did with the chances they created.

[Jones28]

If Jack Ross fancies winning at Hampden 4 times in a season, sticking 2 trophies in the cabinet and beating the champions at Ibrox along the way, then he's welcome to do so with whichever style of play he chooses.

I'd settle for watching a team that rarely lost goals and still had players like Ali McCann, David Wotherspoon and Glenn Middleton in it.

I agree with the sentiments but we all saw the reaction to our style of football this season, despite finishing third. We have played some pretty turgid stuff this season IMO, it hasn't always been pretty, but has been effective.

[bingo70]

I think the majority of us are perfectly capable of acknowledging both the rough and the smooth.

That's why the majority of us will fall within that group of folk who fall a bit short of wanting him gone but still think he's got an awful lot of proving still to do to fully win us over.

1 win in 4 games at Hampden against St Johnstone twice, Dundee United and lower league dross HMFC - is that acceptable? That's rough and smooth, decisions that went for us and against us all taken into consideration.

Jack Ross has a big summer ahead. In fairness to him, I think his transfer business so far is a huge tick in the positive column so we should have reason to expect that Hibs/ Mathie/ Ross will improve us further. I also think we stand to lose some overhyped players as a team we might be better off without.

You'd expect a few of the teams around us to improve though, and I can't help but think this season's third place and Hampden failures will be the pinnacle of his time with us.

Great post.

Completely agree with everything you say.

[Smartie]

I agree with the sentiments but we all saw the reaction to our style of football this season, despite finishing third. We have played some pretty turgid stuff this season IMO, it hasn't always been pretty, but has been effective.

I don't think the third place finish can be criticised - it's a very decent outcome. You can choose to downplay it slightly by pointing out the fact that competition for that might not have been as stout as it has been in the past, but third in the league is a decent achievement for us and surely meets any sort of expectation.

When you're meeting expectations, I think "style of play" becomes less important. If you're not going to meet expectations, at least if you're entertaining / looking to be building something for the future etc then you'll get the benefit of the doubt, but the "style of play" stick shouldn't be used to beat a manager for finishing 3rd.

If you play pish football and don't meet expectations though, then you're on a hiding to nothing.

Ross' team are hot and cold for me. Sometimes they entertain, sometimes they do not, but that doesn't bother me so much. Failing to do better in games when "style of play" doesn't register on the same scale as "importance of result" does bother me.

[euro Hibby]

Smartie makes some very valid points. My main issue with the cup final team selection was that it was not really any different to the team which had failed badly a number of times against St johnstone. There was no
X Factor and they knew how we would play and they were ready to stop us. Here on the board few really made a noise about this and those who did myself included thought that it could not statistically happen again.
Hibs without doubt have an issue with big games. It seems to be in our DNA.
As for Ross , he is a steady chap who has done a reasonable job in a really difficult year. I would give him another year and see if he can improve or keep us in the top 3. The mood around Easter road was really good up until
Saturday so I think we just need to take this one again on the chin and be better next time.

[Jones28]

I don't think the third place finish can be criticised - it's a very decent outcome. You can choose to downplay it slightly by pointing out the fact that competition for that might not have been as stout as it has been in the past, but third in the league is a decent achievement for us and surely meets any sort of expectation.

When you're meeting expectations, I think "style of play" becomes less important. If you're not going to meet expectations, at least if you're entertaining / looking to be building something for the future etc then you'll get the benefit of the doubt, but the "style of play" stick shouldn't be used to beat a manager for finishing 3rd.

If you play pish football and don't meet expectations though, then you're on a hiding to nothing.

Ross' team are hot and cold for me. Sometimes they entertain, sometimes they do not, but that doesn't bother me so much. Failing to do better in games when "style of play" doesn't register on the same scale as "importance of result" does bother me.

I can't argue with any of that tbf.

I do think that COVID has meant we have ran with a smaller squad this season by design, and that has meant a real lack of flexibility.

Scott Allan going on loan to ICT was a good decision I think, anything to help him get games, but **** me we could have used him yesterday.

[matty_f]

Maybe fair. We should have blown Hearts away from the first whistle in that game though, every advantage was on our side and ultimately we are a much better team than them. The fact is we never though and we were left moaning at the end about fine margins.

I remember listening to your podcast the day before that game and IIRC you made that exact point. I remember feeling reassured as I agreed with everything you said.

I suppose what I’m saying is, indirectly, it was all your fault we lost that game.

And i fully agree with that assessment.

[One Day Soon]

And i fully agree with that assessment.


You just doesn't have what it takes to narrate us to victory in the big games. You won't find a higher level than Hibs and if we get an offer for you from anyone we should take it.

[degenerated]

If Jack Ross fancies winning at Hampden 4 times in a season, sticking 2 trophies in the cabinet and beating the champions at Ibrox along the way, then he's welcome to do so with whichever style of play he chooses.

I'd settle for watching a team that rarely lost goals and still had players like Ali McCann, David Wotherspoon and Glenn Middleton in it.We had a David wotherspoon at Hibs, that one was deemed not good enough by the boo boys though.

Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk

[hibeesam]

Dross out

[Since452]

We had a David wotherspoon at Hibs, that one was deemed not good enough by the boo boys though.

Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk

And Middleton who was absolutely dire

[Jones28]

Dross out

Wow, I'm blown away at the depth of this analysis.

[flash]

Dross out

Hibeesam out.

[sleeping giant]

Dross out

Wow.
I'm hoping you are not an adult.

[Smartie]

And Middleton who was absolutely dire

Middleton was very poor for us - in a team that was struggling badly under a manager who quickly got his jotters. Newell and Doidge were toiling badly at that time, as were many more. I just remember him seeming to be symptomatic of our problems - isolated, stuck away out on the wing with nobody near him, struggling to make any impact or link with anyone when he got the ball.

He's looked like a different player the last couple of times I've seen him play for St Johnstone tbh, looks have really kicked on.

The 3 players I mentioned - Middleton, Wotherspoon and McCann I'd have at Hibs in a heartbeat. For various reasons none of them would come, but I think they'd all offer us something we either don't have at all or don't have enough of.

[matty_f]

A Scottish Cup final in the most abject manner possible against a team with a budget half of our own?

Do you really expect people just to shrug the shoulders and think, well, there's always next season?

Have i said that?

[jeffers]

We had a David wotherspoon at Hibs, that one was deemed not good enough by the boo boys though.

Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk

He wasn’t good enough when he was with us, let’s not pretend otherwise because he’s went to another club and got better as he’s got older.

[matty_f]

You just doesn't have what it takes to narrate us to victory in the big games. You won't find a higher level than Hibs and if we get an offer for you from anyone we should take it.

I’ll get my coat.

[hibsbollah]

He wasn’t good enough when he was with us, let’s not pretend otherwise because he’s went to another club and got better as he’s got older.

:agree: It was the right decision to get rid of Spoony at the time, he started spectacularly for us and then a long spell (18 months iirc?) when he was average to mediocre and nobody really complained about the decision to cut our losses.

[flash]

I’ll get my coat.

Matty f out.

[Smartie]

:agree: It was the right decision to get rid of Spoony at the time, he started spectacularly for us and then a long spell (18 months iirc?) when he was average to mediocre and nobody really complained about the decision to cut our losses.

I thought it was a big mistake to get rid of him.

The season before he left he was our third top scorer behind Griffiths and Doyle iirc. Obviously we didn't miss him as much as we missed those 2 but we missed him nonetheless.

We were relegated the following year because we were so deficient in what Spoony can offer - we struggled for goals and we struggled badly to create chances.

I'm not saying he alone would have saved us, but we could really have done with him that season.


A different story entirely as to whether or not he would have been able to hold his own in a midfield when we had any out of Allan, McGinn, Fyvie, McGeouch, Henderson, Bartley playing in there but it might have been interesting to see how he'd get on with players of that standard around him.

I'm actually really chuffed for him to have had the career he's had since leaving Hibs. 3 winners medals playing for the club he supported and he got to enjoy our day in the sun in 2016 as if he was one of us. He's a good player and a great lad and has deserved his success. Shame it was at our expense at the weekend.

[I'm Spartacus]

I'm going to make some really obvious points in the defence of Jack Ross:

He took over on the 15th November 2019, the football season was shutdown on the 13th March - that's FIVE MONTHS into his role.
18 months later we're moaning about a season that has comprised of a semi final, a final and a 3rd place in the league!

Callum Davidson is clearly going to be an excellent manager, he's had a very experienced playing career and has also spent many years in Perth before taking over, so he 'knows' the club, he has also the foundations laid by Tommy Wright over 7 years.

If this was a school report, it would be positive one.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm going to make some really obvious points in the defence of Jack Ross:

He took over on the 15th November 2019, the football season was shutdown on the 13th March - that's FIVE MONTHS into his role.
18 months later we're moaning about a season that has comprised of a semi final, a final and a 3rd place in the league!

Callum Davidson is clearly going to be an excellent manager, he's had a very experienced playing career and has also spent many years in Perth before taking over, so he 'knows' the club, he has also the foundations laid by Tommy Wright over 7 years.

If this was a school report, it would be positive one.

Good context provided there. I still say it would be bonkers to sack a guy who secured third in the league and reached the cup final, no matter how abject the performance at weekend. This is Hibs, not Bayern Munich, so what would we say are realistic expectations? I would be shocked to hear the board are even talking about sacking Ross. He surely has enough credit in the bank to be allowed to start next season.

[bingo70]

Good context provided there. I still say it would be bonkers to sack a guy who secured third in the league and reached the cup final, no matter how abject the performance at weekend. This is Hibs, not Bayern Munich, so what would we say are realistic expectations? I would be shocked to hear the board are even talking about sacking Ross. He surely has enough credit in the bank to be allowed to start next season.

Of course he will. There’s no danger his position is being considered, in fact the impression I got from an interview with Ron last week (think it was the STV news) was that his contract is more likely to be renewed.

If Hibs finish 3rd under Ross every year his job will always be safe. I personally don’t think we will though, I think a lot of the criticism today is based on predictions for what is likely to lie ahead.

I think we will struggle with derbies and that will ultimately cost Ross his job.

[JeMeSouviens]

Of course he will. There’s no danger his position is being considered, in fact the impression I got from an interview with Ron last week (think it was the STV news) was that his contract is more likely to be renewed.

If Hibs finish 3rd under Ross every year his job will always be safe. I personally don’t think we will though, I think a lot of the criticism today is based on predictions for what is likely to lie ahead.

I think we will struggle with derbies and that will ultimately cost Ross his job.

Does Robbie Replay not struggle in the same sort of way though? Could be 2 bald men going for the comb. :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

Neil Lennon finished 4th and got pumped out the Scottish cup 4th round by Hearts and I can't remember a Lennon Out thread. Mental

There was people wanting him out, and we were still in Europe and sitting in the top 4, we might even have been 2nd when he was being slaughtered by at least 1 person here. :faf:

Who'd be a manager eh?

[Crunchie]

He wasn’t good enough when he was with us, let’s not pretend otherwise because he’s went to another club and got better as he’s got older.
He was good enough when he left us, the boys performances were definitely affected by the boo boys. He tried his heart out every game I ever saw and never hid, more than you can say for the majority on Sat.

We were sat next to a few in the east who started on him before he even got the bloody ball, a blind man could see there was a player in there somewhere. In a better Hibs team he would have shone imo.

I always remember the joy in his face after he scored that goal against Hearts, it meant the world to the boy. He's definitely one that got away in my eyes and a prime example of heaping too much pressure on young players.

There's no doubt in my mind Porteous would be a victim of the same boo boys if fans were still in attendance, they just never learn.

[Crunchie]

I thought it was a big mistake to get rid of him.

The season before he left he was our third top scorer behind Griffiths and Doyle iirc. Obviously we didn't miss him as much as we missed those 2 but we missed him nonetheless.

We were relegated the following year because we were so deficient in what Spoony can offer - we struggled for goals and we struggled badly to create chances.

I'm not saying he alone would have saved us, but we could really have done with him that season.


A different story entirely as to whether or not he would have been able to hold his own in a midfield when we had any out of Allan, McGinn, Fyvie, McGeouch, Henderson, Bartley playing in there but it might have been interesting to see how he'd get on with players of that standard around him.

I'm actually really chuffed for him to have had the career he's had since leaving Hibs. 3 winners medals playing for the club he supported and he got to enjoy our day in the sun in 2016 as if he was one of us. He's a good player and a great lad and has deserved his success. Shame it was at our expense at the weekend.
:top marks

[blackpoolhibs]

No, what’s your point? Bearing in mind I don’t want Ross sacked.

Fenlon did well to get us into games, the results of which ultimately went a long way to costing him his job.

I don’t get why that’s twisting anything? That’s literally what is being discussed here with Ross.

He’s not going to get sacked for finishing 3rd, results like these affect the credit in his bank though. Exactly what happened with Fenlon.

7-0 at home to Malmo should have seen him sacked, he never had the kind of form Ross's team have had, and nowhere near the credit in the bank that Ross has.

Saying that, if i was Petrie, i'd have been down those stairs and into the Hampden dressing room to sack him at half time against Falkirk.:greengrin

[Crunchie]

:agree: It was the right decision to get rid of Spoony at the time, he started spectacularly for us and then a long spell (18 months iirc?) when he was average to mediocre and nobody really complained about the decision to cut our losses.
I'm guessing you were one of the boo boys, I doubt you would ever have seen a mediocre performance from him in a Hibs jersey.

[MWHIBBIES]

7-0 at home to Malmo should have seen him sacked, he never had the kind of form Ross's team have had, and nowhere near the credit in the bank that Ross has.

Saying that, if i was Petrie, i'd have been down those stairs and into the Hampden dressing room to sack him at half time against Falkirk.:greengrin

Fenlon was a weird one.

Personally I hate sacking managers mid season, because the next one is always up against it right away.

Fenlon had to go either right after Hearts final, right after celtic final or, at the end of his contract in summer 2014. Instead we binned him half way through the season and got a complete ****** in who make things much, much worse.

Fair play to you, I remember you being strongly against Butcher before he even joined.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Of course he will. There’s no danger his position is being considered, in fact the impression I got from an interview with Ron last week (think it was the STV news) was that his contract is more likely to be renewed.

If Hibs finish 3rd under Ross every year his job will always be safe. I personally don’t think we will though, I think a lot of the criticism today is based on predictions for what is likely to lie ahead.

I think we will struggle with derbies and that will ultimately cost Ross his job.

So a lot of this is based on folks feelings, predictions and thoughts?

He’s managed 2 league derbies: won 1, lost 1. Drew the cup game and lost in ET to a soft penalty.

Maybe he’ll be ok.

[Big_Franck]

I'm guessing you were one of the boo boys, I doubt you would ever have seen a mediocre performance from him in a Hibs jersey.

He was often worse than mediocre and we were right to get rid. Because many years later he put in a decent cross against us doesn't change that.

[bingo70]

So a lot of this is based on folks feelings, predictions and thoughts?

He’s managed 2 league derbies: won 1, lost 1. Drew the cup game and lost in ET to a soft penalty.

Maybe he’ll be ok.

Maybe he will. He’s not going anywhere soon so he’ll have time to prove the doubters wrong.

[The Modfather]

There was people wanting him out, and we were still in Europe and sitting in the top 4, we might even have been 2nd when he was being slaughtered by at least 1 person here. :faf:

Who'd be a manager eh?

I bet you’re not on cup winning manager John Collins’ Christmas card list.

Who’d be a manager indeed :devil:

[Crunchie]

He was often worse than mediocre and we were right to get rid. Because many years later he put in a decent cross against us doesn't change that.
He was motm by a distance, some 8 years after leaving us. My opinion is not based on one cross but several seasons of consistently good performances for the saints, especially against us, go ask a saints fan if you don't believe me.

[Hibernia&Alba]

7-0 at home to Malmo should have seen him sacked, he never had the kind of form Ross's team have had, and nowhere near the credit in the bank that Ross has.

Saying that, if i was Petrie, i'd have been down those stairs and into the Hampden dressing room to sack him at half time against Falkirk.:greengrin

Aye, I tried to support the wee man even after that, but that result was the end really. You don't recover from those defeats.

[raeburnhibs]

Good context provided there. I still say it would be bonkers to sack a guy who secured third in the league and reached the cup final, no matter how abject the performance at weekend. This is Hibs, not Bayern Munich, so what would we say are realistic expectations? I would be shocked to hear the board are even talking about sacking Ross. He surely has enough credit in the bank to be allowed to start next season.

Hibernia & Alba; realistic expectations? to be able to lay a glove on the mighty St Johnstone over a number of games. To be able to alter tactics to achieve this.

[hibeerealist]

You’re twisting what’s being said - I get it.

Did fenlon ever finish 3rd?

Did Fenlon get the backing from his board that Ross has had from Ron?

This "great achievement" nonsense at us getting third keeps coming up, with the backing Ross has had, the absence of the turds across the city and a very poor Sheep where would you expect us to finish?

The Happy Clappers will say fourth no doubt therefore third is a "great achievement", its not it is a welcome bonus to finish one place higher than we expected at the beginning of the season.

I also think that no fans at the games have helped Ross as our home form has been brutal as has the style of play, eye bleeding as most would describe it.

So please lets take third out of the great achievement category, St Johnstone winning both cups in same season IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT.

[flash]

Did Fenlon get the backing from his board that Ross has had from Ron?

This "great achievement" nonsense at us getting third keeps coming up, with the backing Ross has had, the absence of the turds across the city and a very poor Sheep where would you expect us to finish?

The Happy Clappers will say fourth no doubt therefore third is a "great achievement", its not it is a welcome bonus to finish one place higher than we expected at the beginning of the season.

I also think that no fans at the games have helped Ross as our home form has been brutal as has the style of play, eye bleeding as most would describe it.

So please lets take third out of the great achievement category, St Johnstone winning both cups in same season IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT.
Welcome back to the forum. Said nobody ever.

[Skol]

Did Fenlon get the backing from his board that Ross has had from Ron?

This "great achievement" nonsense at us getting third keeps coming up, with the backing Ross has had, the absence of the turds across the city and a very poor Sheep where would you expect us to finish?

The Happy Clappers will say fourth no doubt therefore third is a "great achievement", its not it is a welcome bonus to finish one place higher than we expected at the beginning of the season.

I also think that no fans at the games have helped Ross as our home form has been brutal as has the style of play, eye bleeding as most would describe it.

So please lets take third out of the great achievement category, St Johnstone winning both cups in same season IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT.
Under sone previous managers we would have been fighting relegation

[Danderhall Hibs]

Did Fenlon get the backing from his board that Ross has had from Ron?

This "great achievement" nonsense at us getting third keeps coming up, with the backing Ross has had, the absence of the turds across the city and a very poor Sheep where would you expect us to finish?

The Happy Clappers will say fourth no doubt therefore third is a "great achievement", its not it is a welcome bonus to finish one place higher than we expected at the beginning of the season.

I also think that no fans at the games have helped Ross as our home form has been brutal as has the style of play, eye bleeding as most would describe it.

So please lets take third out of the great achievement category, St Johnstone winning both cups in same season IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT.

Generally goals and objectives aren’t created on the hoof so when they were being done at the start of the season top 4 was the likely target. To achieve 3rd so comfortably is an achievement whether you want to recognise it or downplay it. You don’t have to be a “happy clapper” to realise that 3rd place is good going - it requires consistency over the season and not just at certain points.

Unless we want to bin it as you suggest and solely task the manager with focussing on the 10 cup games every season. It’s a risky way to sustain the club but if it pays off it would be great. Unless we were bottom 6 or fighting relegation?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Under sone previous managers we would have been fighting relegation

He’s not fussy about that - he said league placing can be disregarded.

[raeburnhibs]

Did Fenlon get the backing from his board that Ross has had from Ron?

This "great achievement" nonsense at us getting third keeps coming up, with the backing Ross has had, the absence of the turds across the city and a very poor Sheep where would you expect us to finish?

The Happy Clappers will say fourth no doubt therefore third is a "great achievement", its not it is a welcome bonus to finish one place higher than we expected at the beginning of the season.

I also think that no fans at the games have helped Ross as our home form has been brutal as has the style of play, eye bleeding as most would describe it.

So please lets take third out of the great achievement category, St Johnstone winning both cups in same season IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT.

given we haven't been 3rd for 16 years with the 4th or 5th biggest budget in Scotland suggests that 3rd is a very good achievement. But, we should be able to do this and also beat Saintees occasionally especially when it matters

[oldbutdim]

Matty f out.


_ out.

[calumhibee1]

As has been covered it would’ve looked a more successful season if we went out the cups earlier. One for the club to consider when setting goals. :hilarious

This logic totally fails to take into account our opposition which is a huge part of why he’s being criticised.

You keep talking about targets at the start of the season etc - what if we somehow reach two finals against Championship/League One teams. Do you think they targets remain static? Do you think just getting there is good enough still even if we get beat? Of course it wouldn’t be.

If you think that all that matters is simply getting to the semi and/or the final then crack on.

Others expect results, especially when we’ve been knocked out of 3 cups as favourites at Hampden in one season with two of them being humiliations.

Still though, at least we got there eh.

[jeffers]

He was motm by a distance, some 8 years after leaving us. My opinion is not based on one cross but several seasons of consistently good performances for the saints, especially against us, go ask a saints fan if you don't believe me.

I’m not disagreeing that’s he’s done well with Saints, but your recollection of his time with us is vastly different from the player I remember. He started off very well, but as time went on he was generally poor, so much so he couldn’t even make the numbers stripped for the cup final.

[calumhibee1]

given we haven't been 3rd for 16 years with the 4th or 5th biggest budget in Scotland suggests that 3rd is a very good achievement. But, we should be able to do this and also beat Saintees occasionally especially when it matters

Past failures shouldn’t be used as a barometer going forward. If that’s the case then we should just be happy to get top 6 and win a cup every 20 odd years since we’ve only won 6 in our history.

[Danderhall Hibs]

This logic totally fails to take into account our opposition which is a huge part of why he’s being criticised.

You keep talking about targets at the start of the season etc - what if we somehow reach two finals against Championship/League One teams. Do you think they targets remain static? Do you think just getting there is good enough still even if we get beat? Of course it wouldn’t be.

If you think that all that matters is simply getting to the semi and/or the final then crack on.

Others expect results, especially when we’ve been knocked out of 3 cups as favourites at Hampden in one season with two of them being humiliations.

Still though, at least we got there eh.

I get that but targets will be set at the start of the season - they may be updated/added to as we go but clear expectations will be set at the start. I don’t think many will argue that 4th would’ve been the aim with probably one cup run to semi final. Ross himself set a personal target to win the cup (and get 3rd).

We’re all disappointed about Saturday - it was terrible but we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that he’s done a good job overall, albeit he and the team let themselves and all of us down on Saturday.

[I'm Spartacus]

Good context provided there. I still say it would be bonkers to sack a guy who secured third in the league and reached the cup final, no matter how abject the performance at weekend. This is Hibs, not Bayern Munich, so what would we say are realistic expectations? I would be shocked to hear the board are even talking about sacking Ross. He surely has enough credit in the bank to be allowed to start next season.

Imagine this place if we don't finish second or win both cups next season! Id take third and the cup runs we've had every season as the cup runs will eventually reap silverware, 3rd place and finals also helps us attract better players.

Baby steps guys, baby steps.

[blackpoolhibs]

I bet you’re not on cup winning manager John Collins’ Christmas card list.

Who’d be a manager indeed :devil:

😁😁😁

[Smartie]

I’m not disagreeing that’s he’s done well with Saints, but your recollection of his time with us is vastly different from the player I remember. He started off very well, but as time went on he was generally poor, so much so he couldn’t even make the numbers stripped for the cup final.

It was a disgrace that Wotherspoon didn't make those squads.

Didn't agree with the decision then, don't agree with them now.

Although the medal collection he now has should suggest that he's managed to get over it.

[Brightside]

Yogi leaves Ross County. Be careful what you wish for.

[BoomtownHibees]

Yogi leaves Ross County. Be careful what you wish for.

He’s coming home

[Brightside]

He’s coming home

Fitba folk ken

[JohnM1875]

Yogi did his job and kept them up. So fair play. Some great results along the way as well in beating both us and Aberdeen.

Surprised he's left after waiting so long to get back into management.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yogi leaves Ross County. Be careful what you wish for.

Hanlon's replacement?

[raeburnhibs]

Past failures shouldn’t be used as a barometer going forward. If that’s the case then we should just be happy to get top 6 and win a cup every 20 odd years since we’ve only won 6 in our history.

How many times have we been 3rd in the last 30 or 40 years? I'm not suggesting that we should be comfortable with this, rather, statistically it suggests strongly that 3rd is an achievement

[Bangkok Hibby]

7-0 at home to Malmo should have seen him sacked, he never had the kind of form Ross's team have had, and nowhere near the credit in the bank that Ross has.

Saying that, if i was Petrie, i'd have been down those stairs and into the Hampden dressing room to sack him at half time against Falkirk.:greengrin

I was at the 1970 Malmo game where we won 6-0. Dave Ewing was the manager and he was sacked (or left) due to pish league form later that season. There are very few managers in world football who can churn out successful sides year after year and then only with the help of stupid money.

[jeffers]

It was a disgrace that Wotherspoon didn't make those squads.

Didn't agree with the decision then, don't agree with them now.

Although the medal collection he now has should suggest that he's managed to get over it.

We clearly watched a different player at Hibs.

[Brightside]

Hanlon's replacement?

He has that captain steel we are missing.

[calumhibee1]

How many times have we been 3rd in the last 30 or 40 years? I'm not suggesting that we should be comfortable with this, rather, statistically it suggests strongly that 3rd is an achievement

That’s the point. If we’re going to use our historical lack of success as a justification for a lack of success going forward then the games a bogey.

Aberdeen have finished third how many times recently? Likewise Motherwell, Infact I’m sure they even finished second. Hearts probably a good few times as well.

Finishing third is pretty good but it’s about where we should be. It doesn’t become a better achievement because we manage to **** it up near enough every year imo.

[matty_f]

Did Fenlon get the backing from his board that Ross has had from Ron?

This "great achievement" nonsense at us getting third keeps coming up, with the backing Ross has had, the absence of the turds across the city and a very poor Sheep where would you expect us to finish?

The Happy Clappers will say fourth no doubt therefore third is a "great achievement", its not it is a welcome bonus to finish one place higher than we expected at the beginning of the season.

I also think that no fans at the games have helped Ross as our home form has been brutal as has the style of play, eye bleeding as most would describe it.

So please lets take third out of the great achievement category, St Johnstone winning both cups in same season IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT.
Why does hearts’ absence have a bearing on it? They were relegated last season for being pish, are e to assume that somehow they’re going to be top four? Nonsense.

[matty_f]

That’s the point. If we’re going to use our historical lack of success as a justification for a lack of success going forward then the games a bogey.

Aberdeen have finished third how many times recently? Likewise Motherwell, Infact I’m sure they even finished second. Hearts probably a good few times as well.

Finishing third is pretty good but it’s about where we should be. It doesn’t become a better achievement because we manage to **** it up near enough every year imo.

It’s not justification, but being able to look at historic performance helps put context on the current performance and gives a degree of realism to targets/conversations.

[jeffers]

Why does hearts’ absence have a bearing on it? They were relegated last season for being pish, are e to assume that somehow they’re going to be top four? Nonsense.

Very much doubt they are, but history suggests we would have dropped points against them.

[Peevemor]

It’s not justification, but being able to look at historic performance helps put context on the current performance and gives a degree of realism to targets/conversations.It's selective criteria. What Hibs as a club have done over the past 5, 10, 50 years or whatever is irrelevant when suggesting we've had a relatively good season, but we can however bring up specific achievements of previous managers to illustrate how duff Jack Ross is.

Cherry picking at it's best.

[calumhibee1]

It’s not justification, but being able to look at historic performance helps put context on the current performance and gives a degree of realism to targets/conversations.

If we’re using our historical lack of success to set our targets then that absolutely is justifying failure.

We’d be sitting here aiming for mid table and a cup every 20 odd years if we’re going to use past performance as a barometer for where we are targeting going forward.

Thankfully Ron Gordon is on record as wanting more than that.

[Peevemor]

If we’re using our historical lack of success to set our targets then that absolutely is justifying failure.

We’d be sitting here aiming for mid table and a cup every 20 odd years if we’re going to use past performance as a barometer for where we are targeting going forward.

Thankfully Ron Gordon is on record as wanting more than that.As is Jack Ross.

[calumhibee1]

As is Jack Ross.

And based on his own very publicly stated targets, he’s failed to meet them.

[Danderhall Hibs]

And based on his own very publicly stated targets, he’s failed to meet them.

One of them.

[Peevemor]

And by admission by way of his own very publicly stated targets, he’s failed to meet them.Are you honestly criticising him for that now? Yeah, he'd have been better setting his sights lower so he could claim to have achieved what he set out to do.

This is getting daft.

[calumhibee1]

Are you honestly criticising him for that now? Yeah, he'd have been better setting his sights lower so he could claim to have achieved what he set out to do.

This is getting daft.

Just to be clear, you think criticism of Jack Ross not winning one of the cups this season is daft? Two of the cups we ended up favourites to win?

You’re easily pleased if you think the manager getting criticism for that is daft. I know you like to back him to the hilt but the idea of him not getting criticised for that is quite simply ridiculous.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Just to be clear, you think criticism of Jack Ross not winning one of the cups this season is daft? Two of the cups we ended up favourites to win?

You’re easily pleased if you think the manager getting criticism for that is daft. I know you like to back him to the hilt but the idea of him not getting criticised for that is quite simply ridiculous.
I’ll let peevemore reply but I don’t think that’s what he’s saying.

The dismissal of league performance is daft though.

[calumhibee1]

I’ll let peevemore reply but I don’t think that’s what he’s saying.

The dismissal of league performance is daft though.

I didn’t dismiss the league performance? :confused:

[Peevemor]

Just to be clear, you think criticism of Jack Ross not winning one of the cups this season is daft? Two of the cups we ended up favourites to win?

You’re easily pleased if you think the manager getting criticism for that is daft. I know you like to back him to the hilt but the idea of him not getting criticised for that is quite simply ridiculous.That's not what I'm saying at all. You're post was daft and I suspect you know that.

So daft in fact that I can't be bothered discussing it further.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I didn’t dismiss the league performance? :confused:

Peevemor didn’t say what you suggested either. It’s all a bit daft now.

3rd isn’t good enough for some. Some don’t care about the league. Not everyone but a vocal minority are waiting to pounce on our next defeat - it’s a shame that we’ve grown a culture like this.

[calumhibee1]

That's not what I'm saying at all. You're post was daft and I suspect you know that.

So daft in fact that I can't be bothered discussing it further.

No, that is what you’re saying.

He publicly stated he wanted to win a cup. He didn’t win a cup despite two absolutely glorious opportunities to do so and one other very decent one. He failed to meet that target by blowing those opportunities.

That deserves criticism.

[hibsbollah]

I'm guessing you were one of the boo boys, I doubt you would ever have seen a mediocre performance from him in a Hibs jersey.

Nope, I don’t boo players, I just thought his spark had fizzled out, I’m confident that was the majority view.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No, that is what you’re saying.

He publicly stated he wanted to win a cup. He didn’t win a cup despite two absolutely glorious opportunities to do so and one other very decent one. He failed to meet that target by blowing those opportunities.

That deserves criticism.

It does deserve criticism but not when disregarding other achievements/targets/goals.

[Peevemor]

No, that is what you’re saying.

He publicly stated he wanted to win a cup. He didn’t win a cup despite two absolutely glorious opportunities to do so and one other very decent one. He failed to meet that target by blowing those opportunities.

That deserves criticism.So had he said that the objectives for the season were to finish top 6 and reach the SC semi, you'd be heralding his success?

[Hibbyradge]

The Rangers were favourites to win both cups, but failed.

It seems their fans think league placings are quite important. :wink:

[Since452]

The Rangers were favourites to win both cups, but failed.

It seems their fans think league placings are quite important. :wink:

Gerrard out

[calumhibee1]

So had he said that the objectives for the season were to finish top 6 and reach the SC semi, you'd be heralding his success?

No, because they would have been pathetically low targets from where we were when he told us them.

The targets he set out were probably very similar to near enough every Hibs fan at the time he told us what he wanted to do. We didn’t meet the cup side of those targets.

[Peevemor]

No, because they would have been pathetically low targets from where we were when he told us them.

The targets he set out were probably very similar to near enough every Hibs fan at the time he told us what he wanted to do. We didn’t meet the cup side of those targets.So if I understand correctly, every Hibs manager should aim to win the SC, but if he doesn't then he's a failure and should be sacked?