Jack Ross out

[Peevemor]

this thread epitomised everything wrong with our support. as i've said on here before, it's this crap that has prompted managers to use us against our own team, knowing that we'll turn on our players if they frustrate us long enough.

anyone who is not drunk but genuinely thinks that sacking Ross is a sensible idea is a deluded moron, who's 'support' would be much better suited to those across the city. i really hope those who feel this way take it upon themselves to stop coming to ER, because they are utterly counter productive, and detract from our club.

in short, go away. :aok:Well said.

[B.H.F.C]

Rangers were in the semi final, they lost to the team that beat us in the final.

No they weren’t.

[Robbo6-2]

i shouted at one point in the Percy, Heckingbottom out! Says it all.


this thread epitomised everything wrong with our support. as i've said on here before, it's this crap that has prompted managers to use us against our own team, knowing that we'll turn on our players if they frustrate us long enough.

anyone who is not drunk but genuinely thinks that sacking Ross is a sensible idea is a deluded moron, who's 'support' would be much better suited to those across the city. i really hope those who feel this way take it upon themselves to stop coming to ER, because they are utterly counter productive, and detract from our club.

in short, go away. :aok:

Happy clappers to the rescue

[SlickShoes]

No they weren’t.

It feels like they were haha but yes quarters, the quick timeline of the games had me.

[B.H.F.C]

this thread epitomised everything wrong with our support. as i've said on here before, it's this crap that has prompted managers to use us against our own team, knowing that we'll turn on our players if they frustrate us long enough.

anyone who is not drunk but genuinely thinks that sacking Ross is a sensible idea is a deluded moron, who's 'support' would be much better suited to those across the city. i really hope those who feel this way take it upon themselves to stop coming to ER, because they are utterly counter productive, and detract from our club.

in short, go away. :aok:

Posts like this stink. Folk shouldn’t come to ER because they have a different opinion. Their £400 season ticket money certainly doesn’t detract from our club.

What set of fans don’t turn on their players when frustrated?

[Zambernardi1875]

Hanlon needs to move on but we played better when Stevenson came on imo.

I’m still surprised with our lack of left sided midfielders Jack hasn’t tried Stevenson left back and doig left midfield ever this season.

[Hibby70]

So are some saying
3rd and semi/final = unacceptable
3rd and knocked out earlier stages = acceptable

We still have a team which I think is full of players that think they are better than they actually are.

We often come unstuck against hard working honest professionals who work for each other and seem to drive each other on. When things don't go well our players just look crestfallen and hide. I don't see much coming from the touchline either.

[madhatter]

The league we are in is the league we are in. Just put caveats on everything in that case.

Rangers won the league but Celtic were dismal this season and Aberdeen didn't challenge either so their league title is tainted and not a real league title because everyone else wasnt at their best.

You generally finish above teams because they are worse than you.

People just don't like Jack Ross and are looking for any excuse to be able to justify that. Today was a massive failure for him as a manager and us as a team, and now Jack Ross basically has to win the cup or league to convince these people he is not a bad manager.

Why should people like Jack Ross if he hasn't won anything? Not meaning this in personal terms, nothing against the guy. When he first replaced Heckingbottom I was happy but I remember some of the performances at ER before Covid and I've watched this team - it really isn't great, if 2-3 key players don't turn up we are rank. Namely, Boyle. If we can't counter with Boyle or have isolated 1vs1 we are pretty much out of ideas. If team turn up then we are quite good, not breath-taking.

Any manager is only worth the team they have put together on the field. Only worth what their team wins.

Callum Davidson has won two cups in his first season, some part due to luck, which you need, but also due to the players and the instructions he's given out. He'll be a legend for St Johnstone fans because of these acts. Not because he's a nice guy. He's earned it.

Finishing 3rd one season for Hibs earns you time, nothing else. It should never be viewed as some mad achievement that we should party over and to put the manager on a pedestal.

Jack Ross does need to win a cup. I expect him to win one.

[Callyballybe]

Rangers were in the semi final, they lost to the team that beat us in the final.

No. Quite simply, they didn't.

[May21/05/216]

this thread epitomised everything wrong with our support. as i've said on here before, it's this crap that has prompted managers to use us against our own team, knowing that we'll turn on our players if they frustrate us long enough.

anyone who is not drunk but genuinely thinks that sacking Ross is a sensible idea is a deluded moron, who's 'support' would be much better suited to those across the city. i really hope those who feel this way take it upon themselves to stop coming to ER, because they are utterly counter productive, and detract from our club.

in short, go away. :aok:Well said

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

[madhatter]

this thread epitomised everything wrong with our support. as i've said on here before, it's this crap that has prompted managers to use us against our own team, knowing that we'll turn on our players if they frustrate us long enough.

anyone who is not drunk but genuinely thinks that sacking Ross is a sensible idea is a deluded moron, who's 'support' would be much better suited to those across the city. i really hope those who feel this way take it upon themselves to stop coming to ER, because they are utterly counter productive, and detract from our club.

in short, go away. :aok:

Ridiculous post - fans have helped the club survive during the pandemic. The least we deserve is the right to our opinion after that 'support', eh?

What is most ridiculous about this is you must genuinely think supporters of other clubs go "ah well, next year". Celtic gathered outside their stadium after their "poor" season.

We are in no way unique.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Until we get a real winner (which Ross clearly isn't) can't really complain. Winners win games like today we didnt. ☹

[Peevemor]

Until we get a real winner (which Ross clearly isn't) can't really complain. Winners win games like today we didnt. [emoji852]Was Neil Lennon not "à winner"? How did we get on in the cups under him?

[SlickShoes]

Until we get a real winner (which Ross clearly isn't) can't really complain. Winners win games like today we didnt. ☹

Is Alan Stubbs a winner? He won us the cup but he also lost a play off to Falkirk. Couldn't even get us promoted from the championship.

[Silky]

Until we get a real winner (which Ross clearly isn't) can't really complain. Winners win games like today we didnt. ☹

Who might that be?

[StockholmHibs]

I think we can accept defeat if we actually put up a fight. Our Hampden record is starting to look like our Tyncastle record which is worrying.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Ridiculous post - fans have helped the club survive during the pandemic. The least we deserve is the right to our opinion after that 'support', eh?

What is most ridiculous about this is you must genuinely think supporters of other clubs go "ah well, next year". Celtic gathered outside their stadium after their "poor" season.

We are in no way unique.

no, i really don't think that. i'm not thinking that. i'm gutted, but i'm also not calling for the manager's head, after one of the best seasons we've had since the 70s, because i'm not a ****** moron.

i'm not saying we're unique, but we are notably bad for turning on our team. i've never heard another manager literally state this as part of their game plan (and it worked IIRC).

everyone has a right to their opinion. some opinions are absolutely ludicrous. thinking ross should be sacked is one of these.

those who carry these opinions into next season, and start getting on the teams back when doing so is extremely counter productive, should not bother turning up, because they are doing the exact opposite of supporting their team.

[bingo70]

Was Neil Lennon not "à winner"? How did we get on in the cups under him?

I fear I’m going to regret asking this as it’ll go against the point I’m
Trying to make in general about Ross but who put us out the cups when Lennon was in charge?

I genuinely can’t remember.

[Peevemor]

I fear I’m going to regret asking this as it’ll go against the point I’m
Trying to make in general about Ross but who put us out the cups when Lennon was in charge?

I genuinely can’t remember.Me neither. It does matter though as it appears we can make up the criteria for what's expected of managers as we go along.

[Kaff]

What was a huge disappointment for me today was Hibs shape. We started with what looked like a 4-4-2 which was ineffective and finished with it. At Half time it could have easily been tweaked to give our approach a different dynamic. As the game progressed it was crying out for change however we persevered in a system that had Noah’s ark written all over it and eventual defeat.

Agree with this.

One obvious point which has been talked about, mostly in his defence, is that the lack of crowds has been a hindrance to him and the team.
There is 2 angles here;
We've got safe nice guy Jack who, according to Preston on Sportsound before the game, was upset with himself that he had given the team a roasting after the last St Johnstone game (To me the worst performance I've seen in a long time). Now if there'd been a crowd at that game the boos would have been howling round the stadium but as well before we'd reached such levels of ineptitude earlier in the game there would of course been encouragement and backing, would the crowd have raised the team in a way the manager isn't capable of?
Is that his dynamic, cool and comforting calm head to the players but relying on outside factors to get the added 10/20% that's needed to gee them up?
The flip side now is the loss of positivity and starting on a back foot next season with crowds back in, will it be great backing or will there be that anxious support that breaks too early in a game to be a negative atmosphere?
Going to be hard for the club to put a positive spin on this close season and you can probably bet your bottom dollar we get a trip to Tynecastle early doors. Big pressure

[Joe6-2]

I think we can accept defeat if we actually put up a fight. Our Hampden record is starting to look like our Tyncastle record which is worrying.

This
The players were a disgrace today, let us down badly (I’m being polite)
This is happening far too often

[tamig]

I fear I’m going to regret asking this as it’ll go against the point I’m
Trying to make in general about Ross but who put us out the cups when Lennon was in charge?

I genuinely can’t remember.

Beaten by QOTS, hertz, Aberdeen twice and Celtic.

[makaveli1875]

I fear I’m going to regret asking this as it’ll go against the point I’m
Trying to make in general about Ross but who put us out the cups when Lennon was in charge?

I genuinely can’t remember.

Aberdeen springs to mind . Shocking start , 2 down . Lennon went nuts subbed fyvie after about 20 mins then we came out fighting back to 2-2 and lost it to a worldy

Those sort of gutsy defeats are easier to take than what we got today

[madhatter]

no, i really don't think that. i'm not thinking that. i'm gutted, but i'm also not calling for the manager's head, after one of the best seasons we've had since the 70s, because i'm not a ****** moron.

i'm not saying we're unique, but we are notably bad for turning on our team. i've never heard another manager literally state this as part of their game plan (and it worked IIRC).

everyone has a right to their opinion. some opinions are absolutely ludicrous. thinking ross should be sacked is one of these.

those who carry these opinions into next season, and start getting on the teams back when doing so is extremely counter productive, should not bother turning up, because they are doing the exact opposite of supporting their team.

Club need more money to build a better squad so your advice for people to not bother turning up will likely lead to mid-table mediocrity. I can see you do not value the opinion and the support of these people. That's fine but I can categorically tell you that the club values their ST money. The club that I assume you want to see being successful. So, while you may not agree with them, insulting their intelligence is probably counter productive - we need to drive people to the club, not away.

People wanted Stubbs sacked before we won the cup. Within the space of a week their calls went from reality to preposterous. Football changes fast, some are on different wavelengths. We were born different after all so I just don't see the benefit in attacking each other.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the supporters you are telling not to bother turning up have helped the club survive the pandemic. You are no better than them.

[Silky]

Aberdeen springs to mind . Shocking start , 2 down . Lennon went nuts subbed fyvie after about 20 mins then we came out fighting back to 2-2 and lost it to a worldy

Those sort of gutsy defeats are easier to take than what we got today

Nah. Still no a winner though! A defeat's a defeat.

[B.H.F.C]

Aberdeen springs to mind . Shocking start , 2 down . Lennon went nuts subbed fyvie after about 20 mins then we came out fighting back to 2-2 and lost it to a worldy

Those sort of gutsy defeats are easier to take than what we got today

Wasn’t a worldly. Biggest fluke of a deflected goal you’ll ever see!

[bingo70]

Me neither. It does matter though as it appears we can make up the criteria for what's expected of managers as we go along.

No, it’s just not as black and white as getting tk later stages of cup competition = good manager and Knocked out early = bad manager.

Getting tk the later stages but getting beat the first time you play a decent team isn’t anything to brag about IMO.

Finishing 3rd deserves credit though, even if I do think he got a bit fortunate in that front too though.

[whiskyhibby]

Aberdeen springs to mind . Shocking start , 2 down . Lennon went nuts subbed fyvie after about 20 mins then we came out fighting back to 2-2 and lost it to a worldy

Those sort of gutsy defeats are easier to take than what we got today


Completely agree, today we never looked like having a clue how to win, just more of the same that led to previous defeats to the Saints , I’m pretty sure Lennon would have won it for us today with the same players

[Gordy M]

Completely agree, today we never looked like having a clue how to win, just more of the same that led to previous defeats to the Saints , I’m pretty sure Lennon would have won it for us today with the same players

Pity Lennon was never good enough to get us into that position to find out.........

[whiskyhibby]

Pity Lennon was never good enough to get us into that position to find out.........

He may have been this season....

[sorrow sorrow]

Well said

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

Everyone to there own opinion.
Get him so far to Fck from our club.
All about opinions
Loser mentality

[londonhibby]

So are some saying
3rd and semi/final = unacceptable
3rd and knocked out earlier stages = acceptable

We still have a team which I think is full of players that think they are better than they actually are.

We often come unstuck against hard working honest professionals who work for each other and seem to drive each other on. When things don't go well our players just look crestfallen and hide. I don't see much coming from the touchline either.

Can't really fault much with the way the season's turned out (apart from that shameful performance)... but, we have (and have for all of the 47 years I've supported the team) a problem with loyalty, both staff and players, commitment and, especially, a do-or-die attitude. Hibs are, and pretty much for as long as myself and my father can remember, a halfway house, neither seen as viable for great glory and/or ripping salaries, nor as a safe haven for decent-quality journeymen (who will pretty much always give it their all, because, what else do they have?) We're a stepping point in a way Aberdeen are not and we certainly don't have their pride.
I don't pretend to have the answer, other than that someone in the club has to decide and then go for it. But I think it's high time someone stepped up and decided either way.

[sorrow sorrow]

Open our eyes the guy is a **** chancer

[Peevemor]

Open our eyes the guy is a **** chancerThanks for sharing.

[Peevemor]

Completely agree, today we never looked like having a clue how to win, just more of the same that led to previous defeats to the Saints , I’m pretty sure Lennon would have won it for us today with the same playersThat's a joke right?

[matty_f]

That's a joke right?

Lennon never ever lost to St Johnstone or in important matches.

[snedzuk]

Is Alan Stubbs a winner? He won us the cup but he also lost a play off to Falkirk. Couldn't even get us promoted from the championship.

Thatll be a yes then

[HFC 0-7]

Historically we do not consistently finish in the top 6 never mind top 4, so I am not sure why people expect this as 'normal'.

I remember all the seasons we finished 3rd, its been 4 times in my entire life and I am 38 years old.

Think you might be in the minority. What would you remember more, finishing 3rd and getting beat by St Johnstone in the final or finishing 6th and beating St Johnstone in the final?

It’s not just the loss here, it’s the manner of loss. Never should it be acceptable to get beat by st Johnstone in the final of the Scottish cup in the manner we did today. A manager shouldn’t be talking at half time about if we get beat it should be by being dead on our feet.

Which set of fans will be looking back at this season thinking it’s been a real success more? St Johnstone or hibs.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Aberdeen springs to mind . Shocking start , 2 down . Lennon went nuts subbed fyvie after about 20 mins then we came out fighting back to 2-2 and lost it to a worldy

Those sort of gutsy defeats are easier to take than what we got today



this :agree:

[Peevemor]

Think you might be in the minority. What would you remember more, finishing 3rd and getting beat by St Johnstone in the final or finishing 6th and beating St Johnstone in the final?

It’s not just the loss here, it’s the manner of loss. Never should it be acceptable to get beat by st Johnstone in the final of the Scottish cup in the manner we did today. A manager shouldn’t be talking at half time about if we get beat it should be by being dead on our feet.

Which set of fans will be looking back at this season thinking it’s been a real success more? St Johnstone or hibs.St Johnstone have had an exceptional season and can rightly be happy - they've achieved something only the OF & Aberdeen have done, a cup double.

But apart from St Johnstone & Rangers, we should probably be happier than any other supporters in the top flight this season.

Why not give JR a chance to build on that? Surely he merits at least that?

[turn and burn]

Club mentality of accepting mediocrity and a soft underbelly cost us today. End of.

[matty_f]

Club mentality of accepting mediocrity and a soft underbelly cost us today. End of.

In what way did the club accept mediocrity going into the game today? And how did that impact the players?

[Stokesy's on fire]

Club mentality of accepting mediocrity and a soft underbelly cost us today. End of.

Agree it wont ever change this is it

[matty_f]

Agree it wont ever change this is it

How?

[Peevemor]

In what way did the club accept mediocrity going into the game today? And how did that impact the players?Did it not become our new motto?

[Hakim Sar]

I’m not sure about this one. But his good will credit with the Hibs support is empty, 3rd place finish or not.

Jack Ross? We’d be better with Jim Ross!

“as god as my witness, that man is broken in half!”

[whiskyhibby]

St Johnstone have had an exceptional season and can rightly be happy - they've achieved something only the OF & Aberdeen have done, a cup double.

But apart from St Johnstone & Rangers, we should probably be happier than any other supporters in the top flight this season.

Why not give JR a chance to build on that? Surely he merits at least that?


No he shouldn’t, he is a dependable manager, meaning he can get us a good league position , but I don’t think he has the leadership or tactical skills to turn any team into winners in one off games, we looked like a Championship team today , but not even plucky losers as we didn’t put up any sort of a fight and that for me was all about Jacks team selection and tactics

[matty_f]

No he shouldn’t, he is a dependable manager, meaning he can get us a good league position , but I don’t think he has the leadership or tactical skills to turn any team into winners in one off games, we looked like a Championship team today , but not even plucky losers as we didn’t put up any sort of a fight and that for me was all about Jacks team selection and tactics

He lost three semi finals before he won one.

He’ll take us back to semis and finals and if he does then he has a chance of winning them.

[Peevemor]

No he shouldn’t, he is a dependable manager, meaning he can get us a good league position , but I don’t think he has the leadership or tactical skills to turn any team into winners in one off games, we looked like a Championship team today , but not even plucky losers as we didn’t put up any sort of a fight and that for me was all about Jacks team selection and tacticsI find this incredible.

LC semis.
SC final
3rd in the league.

Sack him!

I don't know what planet some folk are wired to.

[whiskyhibby]

He lost three semi finals before he won one.

He’ll take us back to semis and finals and if he does then he has a chance of winning them.


so he McInnes Mark 2?

[madhatter]

I find this incredible.

LC semis.
SC final
3rd in the league.

Sack him!

I don't know what planet some folk are wired to.


What is a sackable offence in football?

[Peevemor]

What is a sackable offence in football?Not that IMO.

[bingo70]

In what way did the club accept mediocrity going into the game today? And how did that impact the players?

I’m certain you won’t agree but to me I thought there was a real lack of effort in that Hibs team today. I thought they were absolutely pathetic.

I hope there’s not a mentality that it was a case of job done after finishing 3rd in the league.

That’s the way it looked to me and would tie in with a poor mentality at the club/team theory.

[madhatter]

Not that IMO.

What is though? If we took a semi away? If 3rd was 4th? Bottom 6?

[Peevemor]

What is though? If we took a semi away? If 3rd was 4th? Bottom 6?Managers generally get sacked when their team is on a downward trend. We're not. Anything but in fact.

[HFC 0-7]

St Johnstone have had an exceptional season and can rightly be happy - they've achieved something only the OF & Aberdeen have done, a cup double.

But apart from St Johnstone & Rangers, we should probably be happier than any other supporters in the top flight this season.

Why not give JR a chance to build on that? Surely he merits at least that?

Build on what? 3rd place? Why is 3rd place such a holy grail? I would rather that he be judged on the matches that matter when the chips are down. You could say he beat Aberdeen to clinch 3rd but finishing 3rd or 4 th for Aberdeen didn’t matter that much.

Performances haven’t been great either, it’s not like we have been getting beat despite dazzling performances or heroics from opposition defenders and goal keepers.

At the start of the season someone said you will finish 3rd but at the semi’s of the league cup between st Mirren, Livingston, st Johnstone and hibs you won’t even get to the final. At the semi stage of the Scottish cup there is st Johnstone, Dundee Utd, st Mirren and hibs. You will get to the final but get beat. In each of those defeats it was well below par performances. Would you feel like the season is such a success and the manager is good enough?

[Swedish hibee]

He will still be there next season. As will some of today's players. They got us to 3rd in the league & you don't get sacked for that whether we want them to or not.

[matty_f]

Build on what? 3rd place? Why is 3rd place such a holy grail? I would rather that he be judged on the matches that matter when the chips are down. You could say he beat Aberdeen to clinch 3rd but finishing 3rd or 4 th for Aberdeen didn’t matter that much.

Performances haven’t been great either, it’s not like we have been getting beat despite dazzling performances or heroics from opposition defenders and goal keepers.

At the start of the season someone said you will finish 3rd but at the semi’s of the league cup between st Mirren, Livingston, st Johnstone and hibs you won’t even get to the final. At the semi stage of the Scottish cup there is st Johnstone, Dundee Utd, st Mirren and hibs. You will get to the final but get beat. In each of those defeats it was well below par performances. Would you feel like the season is such a success and the manager is good enough?
Are we changing what important games are counted again?

I can’t keep up.

[Percy Vere]

First off I like Jack Ross. We’ve just had one of our best ever league finishes. Most away wins. Scored plenty of goals. Developed young players. Cup semi and cup final.
To say I’m disappointed in this game is a massive understatement I’m seriously disappointed that after three previous defeats by SJ we didn’t come out today and do something different. We were nullified by SJ which was completely predictable. The players huffed and puffed with very little impact, not sure anyone gets pass marks, just a grim performance and dire game that just totally played into their hands.
The manager, staff and squad should watch this as we had to. I think they will be v unhappy.
But it’s one game. Albeit a cup final.
So perspective says to me JR has done a good job this season and deserves our support.
Doesn’t excuse today.

[Crab apple]

I can't agree with his view in the post match interview that the players gave their all.

[MWHIBBIES]

I find this incredible.

LC semis.
SC final
3rd in the league.

Sack him!

I don't know what planet some folk are wired to.

Seriously though mate. 3 losses in a row without a goal and he couldn't figure them out, he learned nothing. How can you defend it? Today was crap.

[Peevemor]

Build on what? 3rd place? Why is 3rd place such a holy grail? I would rather that he be judged on the matches that matter when the chips are down. You could say he beat Aberdeen to clinch 3rd but finishing 3rd or 4 th for Aberdeen didn’t matter that much.

Performances haven’t been great either, it’s not like we have been getting beat despite dazzling performances or heroics from opposition defenders and goal keepers.

At the start of the season someone said you will finish 3rd but at the semi’s of the league cup between st Mirren, Livingston, st Johnstone and hibs you won’t even get to the final. At the semi stage of the Scottish cup there is st Johnstone, Dundee Utd, st Mirren and hibs. You will get to the final but get beat. In each of those defeats it was well below par performances. Would you feel like the season is such a success and the manager is good enough?Or without going into so much detail.

Someone asked at the beginning of the season if I'd take 3rd in the league, a semi & a final, I'd take it.

Obviously Cup win would be better but it's definitely an upward trend. However those that don't like Ross will keep shifting the goalposts when it comes to what's expected.

[The Modfather]

I find this incredible.

LC semis.
SC final
3rd in the league.

Sack him!

I don't know what planet some folk are wired to.

I replied to you earlier in the thread, post 478, with what I hope are fairly balanced and constructive concerns about Ross. Would be interested to see if you agree or disagree with any.

I can see why a lot of posters wouldn’t be considering his position, but I also don’t think it’s difficult to see, without having to agree with them, why some folk like me are not convinced and others go further and either want him sacked or wouldn’t be bothered if he left.

[Peevemor]

Seriously though mate. 3 losses in a row without a goal and he couldn't figure them out, he learned nothing. How can you defend it? Today was crap.I'm not defending today, but sacking him would be stupid.

[matty_f]

I'm not defending today, but sacking him would be stupid.

:agree:

[madhatter]

Managers generally get sacked when their team is on a downward trend. We're not. Anything but in fact.

What's the labels on the axes? How bad does the trend on the line graph need to look?

I get what you are saying but so many variables to this that from a fan perspective it ultimately boils down to "it's time as far as I'm concerned" or "enough is enough for me". Nothing scientific, all about emotions.

I'm not that bothered if Jack Ross stays or goes. Don't want him gone yet but I'm always on the edge due to 3-4 horrific results we've had this season. Petty but those games had bragging rights, they had potential trophies. They meant something.

Says something that most are probably "meh" about Jack Ross and many of the players. Not a great relationship there! Needs to be fixed through good results.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm not defending today, but sacking him would be stupid.

Would it? Surely there are some signs we have hit a ceiling under him?

I'm not saying he should be sacked, but doing so if a better option was there certainly wouldn't be stupid.

He wont recover from today with many of the fanbase and a bad start to next season will see Hecky levels of toxic on here and at games. That is a reason to consider binning him.

[flash]

Are we changing what important games are counted again?

I can’t keep up.

I almost always agree with you Matty but the only "big" game he has won was against a dreadful Dundee United.
That was a disgrace in my eyes today and, whilst I wouldn't sack him, he should be on a last warning after that car crash.
His record in ultimate matches, as in play off and cup finals remains one of 100% failure.

[HFC 0-7]

Are we changing what important games are counted again?

I can’t keep up.

Come on Matty, you know what is meant here. Important games. Only real chances of winning silverware. Against teams like st Johnstone. Where, if you get beat that’s it over.

It’s not just the result of these matches, it’s the performances. I have seen teams get beat despite great performances where opposition have had the games of their life. It’s about the reaction to the losses, it’s about the mindset. Half time comments, when getting beat 1-0 to st Johnstone in the final of the biggest cup in the commentary, already talking about getting beat, but doing it as long as you are dead on your feet. This should never be getting said.

[Gordy M]

Guys, for the avoidance of doubt, and im not speaking for other posters but im sure im right in saying that NO ONE is defending today. It was terrible. Im talking about the season as a whole, and i dont think Ross deserves to be sacked. I think there was enough good things this season to give him next season.

[MWHIBBIES]

St Johnstone have had an exceptional season and can rightly be happy - they've achieved something only the OF & Aberdeen have done, a cup double.

But apart from St Johnstone & Rangers, we should probably be happier than any other supporters in the top flight this season.

Why not give JR a chance to build on that? Surely he merits at least that?

Because really, that was our cup double. Twice we had the best side left in the cups and twice he ****ed it. How exactly can he build on 3rd if he isn't going to take those chances at cups? Is he suddenly going to beat Celtic and Rangers in semis and finals? No chance.

Seriously, how can he build on this if he loses every chance at a cup?

[MWHIBBIES]

Guys, for the avoidance of doubt, and im not speaking for other posters but im sure im right in saying that NO ONE is defending today. It was terrible. Im talking about the season as a whole, and i dont think Ross deserves to be sacked. I think there was enough good things this season to give him next season.

Today was the season. 90 minutes to get it right and give it a good go. 90 minutes away from our best season since the 50s. Instead its just a 3rd place and a seriously bitter ending.

[Badge]

Would it? Surely there are some signs we have hit a ceiling under him?

I'm not saying he should be sacked, but doing so if a better option was there certainly wouldn't be stupid.

He wont recover from today with many of the fanbase and a bad start to next season will see Hecky levels of toxic on here and at games. That is a reason to consider binning him.
Spot on again. I’ve disagreed with so much you’ve said this season but agree with this.

[Peevemor]

Because really, that was our cup double. Twice we had the best side left in the cups and twice he ****ed it. How exactly can he build on 3rd if he isn't going to take those chances at cups? Is he suddenly going to beat Celtic and Rangers in semis and finals? No chance.

Seriously, how can he build on this if he loses every chance at a cup?You're speaking as if it's wholly down to the manager.

[Gordy M]

Today was the season. 90 minutes to get it right and give it a good go. 90 minutes away from our best season since the 50s. Instead its just a 3rd place and a seriously bitter ending.

Sorry this is where i disagree, you cant just write off a whole league campaign because you lose a final.

[B.H.F.C]

Are we changing what important games are counted again?

I can’t keep up.

Works both ways that.

[Heisenberg]

Today was the season. 90 minutes to get it right and give it a good go. 90 minutes away from our best season since the 50s. Instead its just a 3rd place and a seriously bitter ending.

Just a 3rd place? **** sake. You’d think we are regulars up at the top end of the league with that kind of patter. That’s fine though. Ross out. Let’s see how many cups our new manager can win.

[matty_f]

Works both ways that.

What do you mean?

[Peevemor]

Would it? Surely there are some signs we have hit a ceiling under him?

I'm not saying he should be sacked, but doing so if a better option was there certainly wouldn't be stupid.

He wont recover from today with many of the fanbase and a bad start to next season will see Hecky levels of toxic on here and at games. That is a reason to consider binning him.A ceiling? After a season and a half and working with a reduced squad?

This is exactly what's wrong with football (and the world in general) nowadays. Whatever happened to patience?

[MWHIBBIES]

Just a 3rd place? **** sake. You’d think we are regulars up at the top end of the league with that kind of patter. That’s fine though. Ross out. Let’s see how many cups our new manager can win.Well, what does 3rd actually give you? Some cash and a quick exit in Europe? Wonderful. Scottish cup and potential group stage was the prize.


Sorry this is where i disagree, you cant just write off a whole league campaign because you lose a final.Finishing 3rd is nice, but is anyone watching videos in 5 years celebrating that time we finished 3rd? We'll end up like Tottenham. Trophies matter. This season is ultimately a really disappointing one.


You're speaking as if it's wholly down to the manager.

In a one off game maybe not. But 4 losses, 0 goals to the same team while having a better side is the managers fault. 100% the manager.

[flash]

Sorry this is where i disagree, you cant just write off a whole league campaign because you lose a final.

It does but unfortunately most of the league games have been turgid too.

[HFC 0-7]

Or without going into so much detail.

Someone asked at the beginning of the season if I'd take 3rd in the league, a semi & a final, I'd take it.

Obviously Cup win would be better but it's definitely an upward trend. However those that don't like Ross will keep shifting the goalposts when it comes to what's expected.

Missing out the details of who we got beat by and who else was in the competition at the time makes a big difference. When you mention what’s expected..... expectations change, if we had rangers or Celtic in the final, lower expectations. St Johnstone in the final, higher expectations. Should we not expect that in these winner takes all games that the performances should be great?

[Percy Vere]

I can't agree with his view in the post match interview that the players gave their all.

No. Clearly they didn’t.
I think he could have put his hand up to say I got the tactics wrong.
4-5-1 to start. Deny them space like they denied us. Then open up if we snuck the first goal. Anything tactically different would have been better than this.

[MWHIBBIES]

A ceiling? After a season and a half and working with a reduced squad?

This is exactly what's wrong with football (and the world in general) nowadays. Whatever happened to patience?

He was not working with a reduced squad. He was working with the squad he built. His squad was good enough to finish 3rd, it should've been good enough to actually give St Johnstone a ****ing game today.

He's had patience. He had 4 games against St Johnstone to score a goal. He couldn't. And it cost us 2 cups.

[Dalianwanda]

Because really, that was our cup double. Twice we had the best side left in the cups and twice he ****ed it. How exactly can he build on 3rd if he isn't going to take those chances at cups? Is he suddenly going to beat Celtic and Rangers in semis and finals? No chance.

Seriously, how can he build on this if he loses every chance at a cup?

So to build on it its to take chances in the cups & improve stats in the league...Not lose every chance (or lose earlier like hearts so folk stop losing their **** another later stages failure)...3rd was a a great achievement a day ago, it still it today.

Yesterday most folk thought Jack Ross was the bees knees...A crap team performance and he should be out?

[Gordy M]

It does but unfortunately most of the league games have been turgid too.

Il be honest, i think all football has been terrible this season behind closed doors, and i include some of our games in that......but id like to see what he can do next year with the crowds back.

[Percy Vere]

Guys, for the avoidance of doubt, and im not speaking for other posters but im sure im right in saying that NO ONE is defending today. It was terrible. Im talking about the season as a whole, and i dont think Ross deserves to be sacked. I think there was enough good things this season to give him next season.

Absolutely agree.
Terrible performance but impressive season.

[B.H.F.C]

What do you mean?

That people on both sides of the debate are capable of picking and choosing what they deem to be a big game.

[Crab apple]

Would it? Surely there are some signs we have hit a ceiling under him?

I'm not saying he should be sacked, but doing so if a better option was there certainly wouldn't be stupid.

He wont recover from today with many of the fanbase and a bad start to next season will see Hecky levels of toxic on here and at games. That is a reason to consider binning him.

He's nowhere near as bad as Hecky but I agree that questions need to be asked about how far he can take us. He's failed in the big matches but is reliable in getting results in the league.

[MWHIBBIES]

So to build on it its to take chances in the cups & improve stats in the league...Not lose every chance (or lose earlier like hearts so folk stop losing their **** another later stages failure)...3rd was a a great achievement a day ago, it still it today.

Yesterday most folk thought Jack Ross was the bees knees...A crap team performance and he should be out?

Its not a one off crap team performance, though. Its 4 games against the same side, doing the same thing, with the same players, and hes lost 4 times. That is horrendous.

I don't think we'll get more points next season than this. Hamilton for Hearts is bad for us.

I think today was a massive chance missed. Chance to earn big money, sell tickets, pull ahead of others who are struggling. Instead, we got utter *****. How can you fully trust him to take us forward when he misses chances like that?

[Sammy7nil]

Sorry this is where i disagree, you cant just write off a whole league campaign because you lose a final.

I think you can Aberdeen sacked their manger for finishing fourth in a very poor league. Confirmed by the fact a decent Rangers team were unbeaten.

Hibs lost so many home games it was silly Livvy 3-0 Ross C 2-0 Motherwell 2-0 almost back to back yet still squooshed third in a very poor league

[Peevemor]

I replied to you earlier in the thread, post 478, with what I hope are fairly balanced and constructive concerns about Ross. Would be interested to see if you agree or disagree with any.

I can see why a lot of posters wouldn’t be considering his position, but I also don’t think it’s difficult to see, without having to agree with them, why some folk like me are not convinced and others go further and either want him sacked or wouldn’t be bothered if he left.It's not 478. Maybe 489?

Anyway, in short there have been times where we've been disappointing (crap) this season. Often half a match at a time and also, unfortunately, in some "big" matches.

However, it should be remembered that he's working with a limited number of players. We need to sort out the balance in midfield (a problem he inherited) and we could have done with more attacking options on the bench.

I'm 100% convinced that JR merits the right to continue what he's started. We might lose a couple of players during the summer (Boyle's the only one that would really bother me TBH), but I honestly believe that we're not far away from being a great, solid but exciting team.

[matty_f]

That people on both sides of the debate are capable of picking and choosing what they deem to be a big game.

Think mostly folk try to stick the criteria that folk have used to say he’s not on them but then he wins one and it changes so the other folk then use the new definition.

[Peevemor]

Missing out the details of who we got beat by and who else was in the competition at the time makes a big difference. When you mention what’s expected..... expectations change, if we had rangers or Celtic in the final, lower expectations. St Johnstone in the final, higher expectations. Should we not expect that in these winner takes all games that the performances should be great?I'm sure Jack Ross expected a great performance today. I've seen a lot of people blaming him but not much about what he should have done differently.

[madhatter]

A ceiling? After a season and a half and working with a reduced squad?

This is exactly what's wrong with football (and the world in general) nowadays. Whatever happened to patience?

Patience and Hibs fans? How long did we have to wait to win the cup? I've only seen Hibs finish 3rd twice in my lifetime.

Each time Hibs do a reboot we are asked for patience. Almost like Marvel films here.

I mean, we even have to wait ages for a derby win.

We are actually a very patient bunch.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Club need more money to build a better squad so your advice for people to not bother turning up will likely lead to mid-table mediocrity. I can see you do not value the opinion and the support of these people. That's fine but I can categorically tell you that the club values their ST money. The club that I assume you want to see being successful. So, while you may not agree with them, insulting their intelligence is probably counter productive - we need to drive people to the club, not away.

People wanted Stubbs sacked before we won the cup. Within the space of a week their calls went from reality to preposterous. Football changes fast, some are on different wavelengths. We were born different after all so I just don't see the benefit in attacking each other.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the supporters you are telling not to bother turning up have helped the club survive the pandemic. You are no better than them.

i accept your point about people supporting the club through the pandemic. my feeling though is that the worst culprits of this probably amounts to a few hundred, but that they are loud enough to set the tone in the stadium. further more, i honestly believe they cost us points. obviously they had no effect on the game today, and tbh i'll have to accept your charge of hypocrisy...it just makes me piss blood that people don't see the consequences of their actions, and that other teams literally set up to exploit this. i've never heard of another team that has this problem to the point that it is explicitly pointed out by another side's manager. it's absolutely mental.

so yeah, i've probably gone a bit far in saying people should stay away, but it doesn't make people called for Ross's head any less absurd, and i think it's a symptom of a problem in our support that impacts our performance on the park, when fans are present - and if that isn't a failure of the supporter's role, i don't know what is.

[Peevemor]

Patience and Hibs fans? How long did we have to wait to win the cup? I've only seen Hibs finish 3rd twice in my lifetime.

Each time Hibs do a reboot we are asked for patience. Almost like Marvel films here.

I mean, we even have to wait ages for a derby win.

We are actually a very patient bunch.Not going by some of the hysterics on this thread we're not.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm sure Jack Ross expected a great performance today. I've seen a lot of people blaming him but not much about what he should have done differently.

Played McGregor. Had a better plan than crossing it into 3 big centre backs? Stopped crosses from the left because their big ***** right back scores plenty headers from there? Had a way to unlock Boyle? Not played a centre mid at left mid?

Sorry but do you genuinely think he got it right today?

[Johnny_Leith]

Guys, for the avoidance of doubt, and im not speaking for other posters but im sure im right in saying that NO ONE is defending today. It was terrible. Im talking about the season as a whole, and i dont think Ross deserves to be sacked. I think there was enough good things this season to give him next season.

We should have played in three cup finals this season. Not winning at least one of those three is criminal. A Celtic team under immense pressure and self imploding, Livi who are far from beatable and STJ, who yes are decent but we were abysmal today.

We rarely take points from losing positions. We struggle to break teams down.

I don't think Ross is doing s great job at all and a change of manager might give the playing squad the kick up the arse that's needed.

[flash]

Not going by some of the hysterics on this thread we're not.

You are trolling tonight. I am normally on the positive side but that was a disgrace today. Lost every individual battle and barely broke sweat.
It's arguable if he deserves to stay.

[Dalianwanda]

Its not a one off crap team performance, though. Its 4 games against the same side, doing the same thing, with the same players, and hes lost 4 times. That is horrendous.

I don't think we'll get more points next season than this. Hamilton for Hearts is bad for us.

I think today was a massive chance missed. Chance to earn big money, sell tickets, pull ahead of others who are struggling. Instead, we got utter *****. How can you fully trust him to take us forward when he misses chances like that?

I totally agree with you that it's a massive chance missed for so many reasons. Im gutted because of that.

Ive no idea whos going to leave and Ive no idea whos coming in so Ive no idea how we will perform next season. This season has been a step forward for us (results against st johnstone noted)...Im still confident we will bring in better than we have. Whether JR lasts the season I dont know but no matter the cup results. its still be a very consistent season (and yes consistently ****ed up against st J.......everyone else apart fron old firm. weve done well against)..

[bingo70]

Think mostly folk try to stick the criteria that folk have used to say he’s not on them but then he wins one and it changes so the other folk then use the new definition.

I think definition of big games are pretty obvious but people try to pretend a league game against Kilmarnock for example is a big game as the 3 points are important at the time.

Derbies, old firm games, semi finals and finals are the obvious big games.

I would also throw in Aberdeen games at certain times when they’re out closest challengers for 3rd.

His win record in the games above is poor. I’m not saying he loses them all as he doesn’t but I still question his motivational capability’s in these games.

The games we have won have been against Aberdeen when they’ve been on a terrible run of form or a game against a terrible Dundee Utd side. We beat Hearts under him once when they had been given a week off at Christmas before playing us.

[flash]

Played McGregor. Had a better plan than crossing it into 3 big centre backs? Stopped crosses from the left because their big ***** right back scores plenty headers from there? Had a way to unlock Boyle? Not played a centre mid at left mid?

Sorry but do you genuinely think he got it right today?

Had more than one option from the bench too.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Think mostly folk try to stick the criteria that folk have used to say he’s not on them but then he wins one and it changes so the other folk then use the new definition.

Criteria was semi finals, derbies and Aberdeen - now 3rd place doesn’t count.

[Peevemor]

Played McGregor. Had a better plan than crossing it into 3 big centre backs? Stopped crosses from the left because their big ***** right back scores plenty headers from there? Had a way to unlock Boyle? Not played a centre mid at left mid?

Sorry but do you genuinely think he got it right today?I would have played Daz too.

There was a lot played on the deck today too that wasn't working - it wasn't just high balls into the box.

Stopping crosses from the left? Their goal came after Boyle, McGinn & Gogic were skinned in the space of 2 seconds. Is that Jack Ross's fault?

[Alfred E Newman]

No. Clearly they didn’t.
I think he could have put his hand up to say I got the tactics wrong.
4-5-1 to start. Deny them space like they denied us. Then open up if we snuck the first goal. Anything tactically different would have been better than this.

It seemed to me that his game plan today was just to send out the team with basically the same players and formation that had already failed 3 times against St Johnstone in the hope that it might work out better this time. I'll bet they couldn't believe their luck.

[Peevemor]

You are trolling tonight. I am normally on the positive side but that was a disgrace today. Lost every individual battle and barely broke sweat.
It's arguable if he deserves to stay.You don't know what trolling is if you think that. I'm having about 4 or 5 decent discussions.

[matty_f]

I think definition of big games are pretty obvious but people try to pretend a league game against Kilmarnock for example is a big game as the 3 points are important at the time.

Derbies, old firm games, semi finals and finals are the obvious big games.

I would also throw in Aberdeen games at certain times when they’re out closest challengers for 3rd.

His win record in the games above is poor. I’m not saying he loses them all as he doesn’t but I still question his motivational capability’s in these games.

The games we have won have been against Aberdeen when they’ve been on a terrible run of form or a game against a terrible Dundee Utd side. We beat Hearts under him once when they had been given a week off at Christmas before playing us.

See you’ve just created criteria there - Aberdeen at certain times, but not Hearts if they’ve had a few days off.

Like i say, it’s hard to keep up.

[The Modfather]

It's not 478. Maybe 489?

Anyway, in short there have been times where we've been disappointing (crap) this season. Often half a match at a time and also, unfortunately, in some "big" matches.

However, it should be remembered that he's working with a limited number of players. We need to sort out the balance in midfield (a problem he inherited) and we could have done with more attacking options on the bench.

I'm 100% convinced that JR merits the right to continue what he's started. We might lose a couple of players during the summer (Boyle's the only one that would really bother me TBH), but I honestly believe that we're not far away from being a great, solid but exciting team.

Are you concerned by how we set up today and seemed to simply try the exact same formation and approach that hasn’t worked against St Johnston and played into their hands? What do you think Ross has learned from any of the previous defeats?

I worry he has one way of playing and his plan B is simply more of plan A. We are a great side when we take a lead but seem to struggle to deal with any kind of adversity. I think he’s very basic tactically and this season will be his peak. I do think he’s got as good an eye for a player as any previous manager but midfield is his blind spot and along with a plan B will be his undoing.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Haven’t read any of the comments, but the OP has a point. Not the races today

[MWHIBBIES]

Had more than one option from the bench too.

Indeed. I'm not fan of Mallan but he might've actually tried to score a goal instead of passing sideways. Should not have loaned Allan, should've been all over signing Jason Cummings in January (you think he would've let today pass him by? I don't.)

[B.H.F.C]

Think mostly folk try to stick the criteria that folk have used to say he’s not on them but then he wins one and it changes so the other folk then use the new definition.

In all the years I’ve followed Hibs, big games have been the same games.

Not beaten the Old Firm in 11 attempts.
One win in three against the worst Hearts team in my lifetime.
One win in four at Hampden (no games against Old Firm).
On the right track against the Sheep, plenty credit for that in February and last week.

I don’t see him changing much of the above to be honest. I’m not sure where he goes and think getting third this season might be as good as it gets for him because I can’t see him winning many of the really big, high pressure games.

Taking the emotion out of it I wouldn’t expect him to be sacked and, if I was in charge, I probably wouldn’t sack him. But if he was to be away, it wouldn’t bother me one bit.

[matty_f]

Criteria was semi finals, derbies and Aberdeen - now 3rd place doesn’t count.

:agree:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I think definition of big games are pretty obvious but people try to pretend a league game against Kilmarnock for example is a big game as the 3 points are important at the time.

Derbies, old firm games, semi finals and finals are the obvious big games.

I would also throw in Aberdeen games at certain times when they’re out closest challengers for 3rd.

His win record in the games above is poor. I’m not saying he loses them all as he doesn’t but I still question his motivational capability’s in these games.

The games we have won have been against Aberdeen when they’ve been on a terrible run of form or a game against a terrible Dundee Utd side. We beat Hearts under him once when they had been given a week off at Christmas before playing us.

It’s about 50-50 depending on which you choose to discount. Criteria is a moving feast so difficult to keep count.

[MWHIBBIES]

I would have played Daz too.

There was a lot played on the deck today too that wasn't working - it wasn't just high balls into the box.

Stopping crosses from the left? Their goal came after Boyle, McGinn & Gogic were skinned in the space of 2 seconds. Is that Jack Ross's fault?

There was a lot of ***** played on the deck. Square balls and everything infront of them. Easy to defend.

yes, stop crosses, and actually defend them when they do come in. Josh Doig got bodied.

What was Jack Rosses plan to score a goal today? Any idea?

[matty_f]

You are trolling tonight. I am normally on the positive side but that was a disgrace today. Lost every individual battle and barely broke sweat.
It's arguable if he deserves to stay.

He’s not trolling, he’s consistent in his arguments and tries to back up his points. Might be an unpopular opinion but that doesn’t equate to trolling.

[greenpaper55]

If Ross is so good why did we turn in one of the most abject performances ever seen ? that was a truly awful performance and we showed absolutely nothing. Ross was out thought badly today and had no answer other than launch more high balls into the box in the hope that something dropped for us. Just not good enough i'me afraid, he will have to go.

[Danderhall Hibs]

See you’ve just created criteria there - Aberdeen at certain times, but not Hearts if they’ve had a few days off.

Like i say, it’s hard to keep up.

And the same terrible united side who just hammered Aberdeen (our rivals for 3rd place but not really our rivals).

[Jim44]

Because really, that was our cup double. Twice we had the best side left in the cups and twice he ****ed it. How exactly can he build on 3rd if he isn't going to take those chances at cups? Is he suddenly going to beat Celtic and Rangers in semis and finals? No chance.

Seriously, how can he build on this if he loses every chance at a cup?

Where do we find the manager who will build on 3rd in the league? Is 1st or 2nd in the league a reality for us? We just can’t handle St Johnstone who, with all due respect, will fall at the first hurdle in Europe. I’m not prepared to gamble on yet another managerial change with the possibility of going back to the good old days of flirting with relegation. Ok, we’ve had major disappointments in the latter stages of cups, but, for the most part, a good run in the league. I know which I prefer. :tin hat:

[tamig]

In what way did the club accept mediocrity going into the game today? And how did that impact the players?

It always fascinates me this cliche of accepting mediocrity. Gets trotted out after every poor result. Nobody ever comes up with a clear explanation as to how that acceptance is demonstrated. A load of pish Matty.

[flash]

He’s not trolling, he’s consistent in his arguments and tries to back up his points. Might be an unpopular opinion but that doesn’t equate to trolling.

OK I accept it's not trolling more defending the indefensible.

[matty_f]

If Ross is so good why did we turn in one of the most abject performances ever seen ? that was a truly awful performance and we showed absolutely nothing. Ross was out thought badly today and had no answer other than launch more high balls into the box in the hope that something dropped for us. Just not good enough i'me afraid, he will have to go.

He was culpable today, doesn’t mean he should go, though.

[madhatter]

i accept your point about people supporting the club through the pandemic. my feeling though is that the worst culprits of this probably amounts to a few hundred, but that they are loud enough to set the tone in the stadium. further more, i honestly believe they cost us points. obviously they had no effect on the game today, and tbh i'll have to accept your charge of hypocrisy...it just makes me piss blood that people don't see the consequences of their actions, and that other teams literally set up to exploit this. i've never heard of another team that has this problem to the point that it is explicitly pointed out by another side's manager. it's absolutely mental.

so yeah, i've probably gone a bit far in saying people should stay away, but it doesn't make people called for Ross's head any less absurd, and i think it's a symptom of a problem in our support that impacts our performance on the park, when fans are present - and if that isn't a failure of the supporter's role, i don't know what is.

The biggest problem Hibs have is the media. We're mocked, people like seeing us fail. We have seen the birth of "Hibsed it". Beyond the club actually putting together a consistent winning side (in cup competitions) and being more vocal and aggressive against these "media" outlets then we are wasting time asking fans for patience. We're an easy target for mocking and in some regards we deserve to be. Maybe some are better at ignoring it but some take offence to media hosts looking gleeful at Hibs losing etc. Don't see many other clubs getting purposeful targeted disdain. We won the cup 5 years ago but you'd think we were still waiting 114 years.

We don't have 14k fans on here or on social media platforms. Some will pick up papers still and read these articles. Hibs will remain silent and "Hibsed it" etc. will live on.

Hibs don't control the narrative enough as they keep messing up good opportunities and they give these "journalists" and "pundits" license to mock Hibs, or in build-up to big matches say our players are being signed by Mars FC.

[MWHIBBIES]

Where do we find the manager who will build on 3rd in the league? Is 1st or 2nd in the league a reality for us? We just can’t handle St Johnstone who, with all due respect, will fall at the first hurdle in Europe. I’m not prepared to gamble on yet another managerial change with the possibility of going back to the good old days of flirting with relegation. Ok, we’ve had major disappointments in the latter stages of cups, but, for the most part, a good run in the league. I know which I prefer. :tin hat:

St Johnstone were comfortable under Wright, doing okay, about where they should be. They gambled on a change.

I don't want to build on 3rd in the league. **** the league. We can never actually win it. 2 best days following Hibs have not been league related. Cups are what we aim for.

[jeffers]

Well, what does 3rd actually give you? Some cash and a quick exit in Europe? Wonderful. Scottish cup and potential group stage was the prize.

Finishing 3rd is nice, but is anyone watching videos in 5 years celebrating that time we finished 3rd? We'll end up like Tottenham. Trophies matter. This season is ultimately a really disappointing one.



In a one off game maybe not. But 4 losses, 0 goals to the same team while having a better side is the managers fault. 100% the manager.

Your last point sums it up for me and why I wouldn’t be bothered if Ross left. Today was all so predictable, it was obvious what his selection would be and it was obvious if we went a goal down the game was over. I’ve no idea what Plan A was and there was certainly no Plan B. He’s learned absolutely nothing from previous defeats to them.

[Danderhall Hibs]

OK I accept it's not trolling more defending the indefensible.

There’s lots of questions to be answered. What do you think Jack Ross’ performance goals/objectives were this season?

[bingo70]

See you’ve just created criteria there - Aberdeen at certain times, but not Hearts if they’ve had a few days off.

Like i say, it’s hard to keep up.

Cmon Matty.

You know fine well what a big game is without needing a criteria labelled.

I suspect you are correct in lost if your defence of Riss tonight and much of what I’m saying is emotional stuff I’ll change my mind about in a day or two but in terms of what a big game is......it’s pretty obvious. Old firm, derbies, semifinals and finals with some Aberdeen games sneaking in there depending on circumstances. I actually deliberately included that as he deserves credit for beating them twice this season, they were big games at the time, there’s no denying that.

He’s still got a poor record in the big games imo. That’s not to say he loses them all.

I think Ross is a good manager in terms of building a squad but I’ve seen nothing from him as a good motivator.

[Peevemor]

Are you concerned by how we set up today and seemed to simply try the exact same formation and approach that hasn’t worked against St Johnston and played into their hands? What do you think Ross has learned from any of the previous defeats?

I worry he has one way of playing and his plan B is simply more of plan A. We are a great side when we take a lead but seem to struggle to deal with any kind of adversity. I think he’s very basic tactically and this season will be his peak. I do think he’s got as good an eye for a player as any previous manager but midfield is his blind spot and along with a plan B will be his undoing.The tactics didn't worry me at the start of the match because we were well on top. We had most of the possession and fairly high up the park. We simply lacked that wee bit of luck/skill/magic to unlock their defence.

At half time I still fancied us to win, but as the 2nd half went on it was obvious that it wasn't happening for us. When I saw the players getting humpty with each other 20-25 minutes from the end I knew we were goosed.

Anyway, I'm not knowledgeable enough to micro analyse today's match. I tend to step back and look at the big picture.

[MWHIBBIES]

What was the plan to score today? I honestly could not tell you.

[One Day Soon]

He’s had too good a season to be sacked, though I’d argue there were a lot of favourable factors this year in making third place much more achievable than usual.

We’re only winning the league in a million to one fluke scenario so the cups are our sole realistic hope of silverware. Two great chances this year and his teams failed in both - abjectly. The performances in failing were unforgivable. Guileless and gutless.

So he’ll certainly be here next season. The problem, if you believe he is unable to get his team to perform in the one-off big games, is that any chance of getting beyond qualifying rounds in Europe depends upon delivering in big games.

I think he’s incapable of taking us beyond where he has, in fact I think he’s incapable of repeating third too. But because he got the league position he has to get the chance to prove that he can’t do it, which means more of this for some time to come. I wouldn’t mind that so much if I thought we were playing good football and improving all the time.

Actually I think we’ve just become insipid and I’m staggered by what he said in the post-match interview, partly because it seemed to ignore 90 minutes of reality but mostly because if you listen to his words it becomes clear he didn’t think we got anything wrong - he seems to think that the goal changed things and otherwise we’d have been fine. What is most shocking about that is the clear implication that if we were playing them again he’d approach the game in the same way and that friends is utterly mental.

[matty_f]

Cmon Matty.

You know fine well what a big game is without needing a criteria labelled.

I suspect you are correct in lost if your defence of Riss tonight and much of what I’m saying is emotional stuff I’ll change my mind about in a day or two but in terms of what a big game is......it’s pretty obvious. Old firm, derbies, semifinals and finals with some Aberdeen games sneaking in there depending on circumstances. I actually deliberately included that as he deserves credit for beating them twice this season, they were big games at the time, there’s no denying that.

He’s still got a poor record in the big games imo. That’s not to say he loses them all.

I think Ross is a good manager in terms of building a squad but I’ve seen nothing from him as a good motivator.

I’ve not really defended Ross tonight, btw.

The players let him down but he’s responsible.

[bingo70]

The tactics didn't worry me at the start of the match because we were well on top. We had most of the possession and fairly high up the park. We simply lacked that wee bit of luck/skill/magic to unlock their defence.

At half time I still fancied us to win, but as the 2nd half went on it was obvious that it wasn't happening for us. When I saw the players getting humpty with each other 20-25 minutes from the end I knew we were goosed.

Anyway, I'm not knowledgeable enough to micro analyse today's match. I tend to step back and look at the big picture.

I don’t think we were ever well on top.

We were beat the second they scored, everyone could see it and I think the players gave up then too.

Still though, pats on the back all round for finishing 3rd.

[flash]

There’s lots of questions to be answered. What do you think Jack Ross’ performance goals/objectives were this season?

Couldn't care less. Presumably not to blow chance after chance at a trophy.

[The Harp Awakes]

In all the years I’ve followed Hibs, big games have been the same games.

Not beaten the Old Firm in 11 attempts.
One win in three against the worst Hearts team in my lifetime.
One win in four at Hampden (no games against Old Firm).
On the right track against the Sheep, plenty credit for that in February and last week.

I don’t see him changing much of the above to be honest. I’m not sure where he goes and think getting third this season might be as good as it gets for him because I can’t see him winning many of the really big, high pressure games.

Taking the emotion out of it I wouldn’t expect him to be sacked and, if I was in charge, I probably wouldn’t sack him. But if he was to be away, it wouldn’t bother me one bit.

I'm on the fence with JR. He has to be given credit for finishing 3rd and our excellent away form this season. He has also done well to reach 3 consecutive semi finals and get us to a final.

However, no matter how bad Hearts are next season, I wouldn't be confident of him winning any of the derbies. I just can't see him being able to motivate his players enough to get half arsed about the big games. For me he's typical of a modern, unemotional manager who focuses only on win ratio and league position. The way he was banging on about 3rd being such an achievement tells it's own story. We're Hibs FFS not Ross County.

[bingo70]

He’s had too good a season to be sacked, though I’d argue there were a lot of favourable factors this year in making third place much more achievable than usual.

We’re only winning the league in a million to one fluke scenario so the cups are our sole realistic hope of silverware. Two great chances this year and his teams failed in both - abjectly. The performances in failing were unforgivable. Guileless and gutless.

So he’ll certainly be here next season. The problem, if you believe he is unable to get his team to perform in the one-off big games, is that any chance of getting beyond qualifying rounds in Europe depends upon delivering in big games.

I think he’s incapable of taking us beyond where he has, in fact I think he’s incapable of repeating third too. But because he got the league position he has to get the chance to prove that he can’t do it, which means more of this for some time to come. I wouldn’t mind that so much if I thought we were playing good football and improving all the time.

Actually I think we’ve just become insipid and I’m staggered by what he said in the post-match interview, partly because it seemed to ignore 90 minutes of reality but mostly because if you listen to his words it becomes clear he didn’t think we got anything wrong - he seems to think that the goal changed things and otherwise we’d have been fine. What is most shocking about that is the clear implication that if we were playing them again he’d approach the game in the same way and that friends is utterly mental.

Agree. His job isn’t in any danger and quite rightly so after finishing 3rd.

It will be interesting to see how he copes without Boyle though assuming he moves on going by press reports last week. Imo Boyle got us out of jail a lot this season. I hope young McKay has a similar impact or we could be in bother.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Couldn't care less. Presumably not to blow chance after chance at a trophy.

You do care though. What are we measuring him against?

[Kaff]

It seemed to me that his game plan today was just to send out the team with basically the same players and formation that had already failed 3 times against St Johnstone in the hope that it might work out better this time. I'll bet they couldn't believe their luck.

Every game we play will be analysed to death with all the data examined and conclusions drawn from it.
Question is, how come they could watch the last St Johnstone game (Porteous mistake game) and basically pick the same team and shape without having a Plan B ready to implement if/when we went behind or we were huffing and puffing with no penetration!
It's happened so often but particularly in that match so why stand passively allowing the game to slip away and leave changes so late, again?
We have few choices but the one player on the bench who would have raised the tempo was David Gray, he'd have clattered into heay tackles and pushed forward with intent. A lot of it would have ended fruitless and we'd have been weaker down that wing defensively but he would have raised the performance level of the team.
Him and Daz would have given the right kind of fire in the belly, Daz starting was only sensible choice and if we needed leadership get SDG on at halftime or early 2nd half.
SDG not the answer for a league campaign next year but this was a one off game we were going through the motions in.
What a sickening day

[B.H.F.C]

The tactics didn't worry me at the start of the match because we were well on top. We had most of the possession and fairly high up the park. We simply lacked that wee bit of luck/skill/magic to unlock their defence.

At half time I still fancied us to win, but as the 2nd half went on it was obvious that it wasn't happening for us. When I saw the players getting humpty with each other 20-25 minutes from the end I knew we were goosed.

Anyway, I'm not knowledgeable enough to micro analyse today's match. I tend to step back and look at the big picture.

What made you think we’d win at half time? Not the first half surely? Or the way the previous games against them have went? From the second they scored the outcome was completely inevitable.

[The Modfather]

The tactics didn't worry me at the start of the match because we were well on top. We had most of the possession and fairly high up the park. We simply lacked that wee bit of luck/skill/magic to unlock their defence.

At half time I still fancied us to win, but as the 2nd half went on it was obvious that it wasn't happening for us. When I saw the players getting humpty with each other 20-25 minutes from the end I knew we were goosed.

Anyway, I'm not knowledgeable enough to micro analyse today's match. I tend to step back and look at the big picture.

The tactics and formation were the same as the previous games, with the exact same failings and the same outcome as the previous defeats. That’s a massive warning sign IMO and increases my doubts about Ross.

I worry that more teams will use the St Johnston template against us next season and Ross will continue to be unable to solve it.

[ScottB]

Ultimately, there’s a choice to be made, and it remains to be seen what Ron and the new leadership want. We’re in uncharted waters here.

We finished third, which I assume would have been the target for the league. We made it Hampden a few times, so again, probably boxes ticked there too.

But, if Ron is still after his plan of us being a more successful side, the question to ask is, can Ross do better? Can Ross maintain 3rd if Aberdeen bounce back, if Hearts finally spend their money properly? Can Ross deliver Cups, not just visits to Hampden? Or have we peaked under his leadership?

I think that’s a fair question to ask, and if the answer to that is Yes, the choice then becomes do you part ways at a ‘high’ or wait for decline to really bite?

I’d apply this to the entire football operation staff too. There’s potentially a major rebuild ahead this summer if more than a few go. Who do we want leading that effort?

I don’t expect Ross will be let go, (nor do I expect anyone will approach us for him) but, much like was the case with Fenlon for a long time, he’s probably already suffered a mortal blow. He’s always going to be one bad or embarrassing performance away from an ever increasing number in the support wanting him out.

[h1bs4life]

Couldn't care less. Presumably not to blow chance after chance at a trophy.

On the bus home after walking down Leith Walk empty . thnks Jack Ross

[Peevemor]

What made you think we’d win at half time? Not the first half surely? Or the way the previous games against them have went? From the second they scored the outcome was completely inevitable.Heart ruling head. I'm a fan!

[flash]

You do care though. What are we measuring him against?

Not sure where you are going with this. I measure him against my expectations.
He continues to come up short when it matters.

[#2 Double Tap]

I'm not defending today, but sacking him would be stupid.

The fan base seems pretty split on ross, the minority who have wanted rid has been growing since january, a stay or go poll right now would be interesting, I bet the happy clappers would be a little nervous going for a look at the results.

All the people shouting about stats and best league finish for 16 years etc, are not paying attention to the style of play. You can win ugly which is a good quality sometimes, but fans need excitement because that is what gives them hope, the defeats against hearts and then the semi and final loss to st jay are results that really take the stuffing outa you and smother those dreams!

I seen neil lennon being mentioned a couple pages back, it may have ended sourly with lennon, but his 4th placed finish is held in high regard by a lot of fans because that last 6 months was pretty thrilling and us fans really believed the team could reach for the stars. For those who bang on about win % rates and the like, in that season lennon also won 18 games, but lost 4 fewer than this year. we finished with more points and a slightly better goal difference. I dont remember getting to a cup final that year, but the football was proper engaging and after that 5-5 game, I was gagging for more ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!

This season has ended and even though we finished 3rd it all seems a bit meh!

edit> meh doesny sell season tickets and strips.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Not sure where you are going with this. I measure him against my expectations.
He continues to come up short when it matters.

What were your expectations?

[One Day Soon]

Ultimately, there’s a choice to be made, and it remains to be seen what Ron and the new leadership want. We’re in uncharted waters here.

We finished third, which I assume would have been the target for the league. We made it Hampden a few times, so again, probably boxes ticked there too.

But, if Ron is still after his plan of us being a more successful side, the question to ask is, can Ross do better? Can Ross maintain 3rd if Aberdeen bounce back, if Hearts finally spend their money properly? Can Ross deliver Cups, not just visits to Hampden? Or have we peaked under his leadership?

I think that’s a fair question to ask, and if the answer to that is Yes, the choice then becomes do you part ways at a ‘high’ or wait for decline to really bite?

I’d apply this to the entire football operation staff too. There’s potentially a major rebuild ahead this summer if more than a few go. Who do we want leading that effort?

I don’t expect Ross will be let go, (nor do I expect anyone will approach us for him) but, much like was the case with Fenlon for a long time, he’s probably already suffered a mortal blow. He’s always going to be one bad or embarrassing performance away from an ever increasing number in the support wanting him out.

Great analysis. Spot on.

[Peevemor]

The tactics and formation were the same as the previous games, with the exact same failings and the same outcome as the previous defeats. That’s a massive warning sign IMO and increases my doubts about Ross.

I worry that more teams will use the St Johnston template against us next season and Ross will continue to be unable to solve it.Not all teams can defend as well as St Johnstone.

[gazzag70]

Club mentality of accepting mediocrity and a soft underbelly cost us today. End of.

Totally agree, however it’s just not the club’s acceptance of mediocrity that lets us down .Many of our fans accept losing in semis and finals as success.It is not acceptable, in terms of the Scottish game we constantly under perform.
We have to do better both in terms of performance and attitude. Today’s performance was a total and utter embarrassment, not one player turned up.
As an older fan I have seen and heard the excuses too many times.
Personally I don’t like Jack Ross teams they are far too negative, I don’t think he has what it takes to win the big games and I really fear he will be found out in the derbies next season.
I hope I am proved wrong as the club will not sack him. We must do better and can do better.We all have too pull together and expect and demand more

[MWHIBBIES]

Not all teams can defend as well as St Johnstone.

Did they defend well? They certainly didn't in the semi, St Mirren should've had 3. I think we are just predictable and **** at attacking teams who sit deep.

[flash]

What were your expectations?

That we would be lacking when it came to the crunch like we almost always are.
Sadly I was right.

[bingo70]

Ultimately, there’s a choice to be made, and it remains to be seen what Ron and the new leadership want. We’re in uncharted waters here.

We finished third, which I assume would have been the target for the league. We made it Hampden a few times, so again, probably boxes ticked there too.

But, if Ron is still after his plan of us being a more successful side, the question to ask is, can Ross do better? Can Ross maintain 3rd if Aberdeen bounce back, if Hearts finally spend their money properly? Can Ross deliver Cups, not just visits to Hampden? Or have we peaked under his leadership?

I think that’s a fair question to ask, and if the answer to that is Yes, the choice then becomes do you part ways at a ‘high’ or wait for decline to really bite?

I’d apply this to the entire football operation staff too. There’s potentially a major rebuild ahead this summer if more than a few go. Who do we want leading that effort?

I don’t expect Ross will be let go, (nor do I expect anyone will approach us for him) but, much like was the case with Fenlon for a long time, he’s probably already suffered a mortal blow. He’s always going to be one bad or embarrassing performance away from an ever increasing number in the support wanting him out.

It’s a good post but we can’t just ignore the fact it’s not just a case of keep him or get someone else.

If he was to leave it would could £100,000s in compensation with no guarantee if the next guy being any better.

A safe pair of hands doing well enough will be very appealing to a club owner.

I’d love someone to poach him, what are Plymouth Argyle doing for a manager these days?

[madhatter]

Did they defend well? They certainly didn't in the semi, St Mirren should've had 3. I think we are just predictable and **** at attacking teams who sit deep.

Stop Boyle and you stop Hibs.

[flash]

Did they defend well? They certainly didn't in the semi, St Mirren should've had 3. I think we are just predictable and **** at attacking teams who sit deep.

St Mirren created a number of decent opportunities in the semi. Their forward players tried a fair bit harder than ours.

[Lith]

Totally agree, however it’s just not the club’s acceptance of mediocrity that lets us down .Many of our fans accept losing in semis and finals as success.It is not acceptable, in terms of the Scottish game we constantly under perform.
We have to do better both in terms of performance and attitude. Today’s performance was a total and utter embarrassment, not one player turned up.
As an older fan I have seen and heard the excuses too many times.
Personally I don’t like Jack Ross teams they are far too negative, I don’t think he has what it takes to win the big games and I really fear he will be found out in the derbies next season.
I hope I am proved wrong as the club will not sack him. We must do better and can do better.We all have too pull together and expect and demand more
I hope you are wrong and the club sack him…. Wonderful opportunity to show what he learned from previous games against the same opposition…. And he like the team failed miserably… WTF do these guys do in training, must be big punts up the park…. Serial losers or maybe that’s a bit much but they are defo not winners…. Get rid of Jack Ross please

[Peevemor]

Did they defend well? They certainly didn't in the semi, St Mirren should've had 3. I think we are just predictable and **** at attacking teams who sit deep.If there is that problem then it's been there since we were in the championship.

But we still managed to score more goals than anyone outwith the OF and one of only 3 teams in the league with a positive goal difference.

Who gets the praise for that? Jack Ross or the players?

[Danderhall Hibs]

That we would be lacking when it came to the crunch like we almost always are.
Sadly I was right.

What did you expect us to achieve (or not) at the start of the season?

[HFC 0-7]

He’s had too good a season to be sacked, though I’d argue there were a lot of favourable factors this year in making third place much more achievable than usual.

We’re only winning the league in a million to one fluke scenario so the cups are our sole realistic hope of silverware. Two great chances this year and his teams failed in both - abjectly. The performances in failing were unforgivable. Guileless and gutless.

So he’ll certainly be here next season. The problem, if you believe he is unable to get his team to perform in the one-off big games, is that any chance of getting beyond qualifying rounds in Europe depends upon delivering in big games.

I think he’s incapable of taking us beyond where he has, in fact I think he’s incapable of repeating third too. But because he got the league position he has to get the chance to prove that he can’t do it, which means more of this for some time to come. I wouldn’t mind that so much if I thought we were playing good football and improving all the time.

Actually I think we’ve just become insipid and I’m staggered by what he said in the post-match interview, partly because it seemed to ignore 90 minutes of reality but mostly because if you listen to his words it becomes clear he didn’t think we got anything wrong - he seems to think that the goal changed things and otherwise we’d have been fine. What is most shocking about that is the clear implication that if we were playing them again he’d approach the game in the same way and that friends is utterly mental.

Your first paragraph and the rest of your post just don’t match. I agree with everything you said, apart from the first paragraph.

[Kaff]

The tactics didn't worry me at the start of the match because we were well on top. We had most of the possession and fairly high up the park. We simply lacked that wee bit of luck/skill/magic to unlock their defence.

At half time I still fancied us to win, but as the 2nd half went on it was obvious that it wasn't happening for us. When I saw the players getting humpty with each other 20-25 minutes from the end I knew we were goosed.

Anyway, I'm not knowledgeable enough to micro analyse today's match. I tend to step back and look at the big picture.

There's a very good observation about the players getting ansty with each other, it shows lack of leadership and guidance from Jack. If he'd pointed out errors and given proper gameplan for the 2nd half there wouldn't be finger pointing on the pitch it would have been from the sidelines and we very seldom see that.
Players arguing on the pitch does not represent a good management set up

Edit
And no leadership on the park, with Daz and SDG in the stands

[Danderhall Hibs]

Stop Boyle and you stop Hibs.

:agree:

[BS44]

St Mirren created a number of decent opportunities in the semi. Their forward players tried a fair bit harder than ours.

And there is the problem.

Why the **** didn't Boyle and Nisbet try a leg?

Nisbet today looked as though he was more interested in not get injured before the euros, rather than winning the cup with Hibs

[Pretty Boy]

The reality is in Scottish football the league is largely irrelevant. It's sad but true that only 2 teams can win it and that isn't changing any time soon. In the same vein for some teams avoiding relegation is good going. We aren't one of those teams in either category.

For the likes of us, Hearts and Aberdeen winning a cup is the real measure that a team is remembered by. Where did the 91 Skol Cup team finish in the league? 5th, 6th 7th? I genuinely don't know because it is irrelevant. The same applles to the 07 team, I think we finished 5th that year but I could be wrong.

Finishing 3rd is great but it will never, ever invoke the same emotion that a cup win will. That doesn't mean this team deserves to be written off but from the position of 3 semi finals this season we have walked away with nothing. For a seasons work we will now likely see 2 or maybe 4 games in Europe. You can't frame a photograph, go to a parade or sell a DVD because of that.

I don't want Ross out but after our performance in 2 semi finals and 1 final this season I feel little warmth towards him either. 3 chances to deliver memorable success and we failed in every single one.

[Peevemor]

There's a very good observation about the players getting ansty with each other, it shows lack of leadership and guidance from Jack. If he'd pointed out errors and given proper gameplan for the 2nd half there wouldn't be finger pointing on the pitch it would have been from the sidelines and we very seldom see that.
Players arguing on the pitch does not represent a good management set up

Edit
And no leadership on the park, with Daz and SDG in the standsThe players were moaning about misplaced passes, etc. It's the first time I've seen them doing it to that extent so I don't think you can blame the manager. If it was happening week after week then yes.

[loanhead hibs]

Pathetic display. Barely laid a glove on St Johnstone. ****ing st Johnstone Sick to the back teeth of being what if. About time We acted like like a big club. The Mans a loser. Get out of our club. Take your cardigan and get to ****.

[flash]

What did you expect us to achieve (or not) at the start of the season?
Can't remember.

[mcfly]

Ross won’t be sacked but that today is gonna take a lot to convince me he is the right manager.

No game plan, very predictable play. Typical hibs really and why should we be surprised? Bottled it again....

Sorry but we need winners in that team and move the rest on.

Jackson Irvine, Boyle, Nisbet all anonymous.

porteous - sell him take the money and look at the lad Kerr from st Johnstone.

Sick fed up of jack Ross teams bottling big games

[B.H.F.C]

And there is the problem.

Why the **** didn't Boyle and Nisbet try a leg?

Nisbet today looked as though he was more interested in not get injured before the euros, rather than winning the cup with Hibs

For all I’ll be critical of Ross, I totally agree with this.

Hibs will always lose games but some of those players should be ashamed of themselves tonight. Forgetting the lack of quality, there was a total lack of desire to do a lot of the fundamental things you need to do in a game of football. Closing down, tackling. No way can any of them have walked of that park thinking they gave everything. And if any of them think they did, they’re kidding themselves on.

[mcfly]

And there is the problem.

Why the **** didn't Boyle and Nisbet try a leg?

Nisbet today looked as though he was more interested in not get injured before the euros, rather than winning the cup with Hibs

No chance Nisbet will get any game time at the euros.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Can't remember.

That’s fine - you’ll struggle to criticise anyone then. Performance goals are quite crucial when assessing performance.

[Kaff]

The players were moaning about misplaced passes, etc. It's the first time I've seen them doing it to that extent so I don't think you can blame the manager. If it was happening week after week then yes.

Players don't argue with each other unless there's something amiss, it was leadership that was missing.
He provides very little from the sidelines and didn't pick a leader for the pitch when there were two on the bench, SDG may not have the ability of some but he would have raised the effort levels, that was what was missing.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No chance Nisbet will get any game time at the euros.

Just there to carry the water bottles especially after today.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

I can understand Ross out. This was the most embarrassing defeat. Today was incredibly poor. ****** ***** tbh. ☹

[stoneyburn hibs]

This thread is jambo central.

Sad fannies.

[madhatter]

For all I’ll be critical of Ross, I totally agree with this.

Hibs will always lose games but some of those players should be ashamed of themselves tonight. Forgetting the lack of quality, there was a total lack of desire to do a lot of the fundamental things you need to do in a game of football. Closing down, tackling. No way can any of them have walked of that park thinking they gave everything. And if any of them think they did, they’re kidding themselves on.

Hibs are a players club. We’ll train them so they can win cup games at other teams. Hibs honestly come across as too nice a club. Why’d Macey want to sign for us? Good banter? He looks a good goalkeeper so nothing against him. I’d like to know what the sales pitch to these players is though. Is it we’ll give you best chance to use us as a stepping to the Premier League, look at John McGinn? Awful way to create winning mentality if that is the case.

[madhatter]

This thread is jambo central.

Sad fannies.

Name one.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

This thread is jambo central.

Sad fannies.

Nah, I don't think it is.

[Danderhall Hibs]

This thread is jambo central.

Sad fannies.

It’s not, it’s emotional fans that don’t know or remember what they expected from us at the start of the season.

[flash]

That’s fine - you’ll struggle to criticise anyone then. Performance goals are quite crucial when assessing performance.

I tend to just use my eyes.

[matty_f]

I tend to just use my eyes.

Combine that with your brain for better effect. :greengrin

[Silky]

Hibs are a players club. We’ll train them so they can win cup games at other teams. Hibs honestly come across as too nice a club. Why’d Macey want to sign for us? Good banter? He looks a good goalkeeper so nothing against him. I’d like to know what the sales pitch to these players is though. Is it we’ll give you best chance to use us as a stepping to the Premier League, look at John McGinn? Awful way to create winning mentality if that is the case.

Is that not really the case with every club in Scotland? Realsitically, where can you go? As was mentioned on another thread, only two teams can really win the league. So, outside them your ambition is to be best of the rest, to maybe get to cup finals. The exposure is poor and, in general, the game here is looked down upon. I don't think there is enough to keep players here for 4, 5,6 years anymore. It's a short career and, as always, money talks

[flash]

Combine that with your brain for better effect. :greengrin

Matty, you know I ain't one of the more extreme posters but I am raging tonight.
Too much drink to articulate properly but that performance in conjunction with the two semi defeats is very close to sacking territory for my cash.
Gutless, guileless pish from start to.finish.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I tend to just use my eyes.

No doubt we were ***** today. We all saw that.

Just wondering what you expected this season for the manager to keep his job?

[flash]

No doubt we were ***** today. We all saw that.

Just wondering what you expected this season for the men’s get to keep his job?

I expect 100% effort. Not sure I saw that today.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Matty, you know I ain't one of the more extreme posters but I am raging tonight.
Too much drink to articulate properly but that performance in conjunction with the two semi defeats is very close to sacking territory for my cash.
Gutless, guileless pish from start to.finish.

I know you’re not and respect you as a poster on here - I’m raging at how inept we were today.

I’m not convinced it ends in sacking the manager though.

[AliboyFC]

This thread is jambo central.

Sad fannies.

Are u a jambo?

[bawheid]

I know you’re not and respect you as a poster on here - I’m raging at how inept we were today.

I’m not convinced it ends in sacking the manager though.

I’m close to it. I can’t see one of his Hibs teams winning a cup final. And that’s what it’s all about for us.

[madhatter]

Is that not really the case with every club in Scotland? Realsitically, where can you go? As was mentioned on another thread, only two teams can really win the league. So, outside them your ambition is to be best of the rest, to maybe get to cup finals. The exposure is poor and, in general, the game here is looked down upon. I don't think there is enough to keep players here for 4, 5,6 years anymore. It's a short career and, as always, money talks

I get that. How do you create a team of players that want Hibs to win when you are convincing them to sign for the club in the hope of leaving your club? Ambition is fine. That’s a players internal drive. Selling the club to them based solely on that ambition is worrying.

Player pathways comes across as Hibs going “use us as a conduit for the furtherment of your career”. I can see that Hibs may attract better players but that is by no means guaranteed. It also shifts focus from club to player. Blurs the no one is bigger than the club narrative as each player must be made to feel like they are on a pathway to the stars.

[davym7062]

No doubt we were ***** today. We all saw that.

Just wondering what you expected this season for the manager to keep his job?

i expect him to pick his best players!!! leaving darren on the bench was a huge error

[mcfly]

This thread is jambo central.

Sad fannies.

Hahaha

You must be happy with our performance today then...

Stars don’t lie. Jack Ross doesn’t win the big games

[matty_f]

Matty, you know I ain't one of the more extreme posters but I am raging tonight.
Too much drink to articulate properly but that performance in conjunction with the two semi defeats is very close to sacking territory for my cash.
Gutless, guileless pish from start to.finish.

I’m raging too, chief. It’s an absolute sickener tonight.

[flash]

I know you’re not and respect you as a poster on here - I’m raging at how inept we were today.

I’m not convinced it ends in sacking the manager though.

Neither am I but right now I would be seriously considering it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I’m close to it. I can’t see one of his Hibs teams winning a cup final. And that’s what it’s all about for us.

He’s only got one team - and it finished 3rd in the league.

Maybe we should set the managers goals as winning the cup. Obviously that’s would mean we couldn’t complain at league performance and put it all down to the 5 cup games.

[B.H.F.C]

He’s only got one team - and it finished 3rd in the league.

Maybe we should set the managers goals as winning the cup. Obviously that’s would mean we couldn’t complain at league performance and put it all down to the 5 cup games.

Ross and the players have spoken very publicly about the goal being to win a trophy. Didn’t need us to set that for them, they did it themselves.

[davym7062]

What a ridiculous statement.
This thread is numerous Hibs fans venting their spleen over an absolutely inept performance in our biggest game of the season.
And this was the icing on the cake with us losing in the other two semi finals.
Finishing 3rd is just going to be a footnote in history, winning any one the 3 cups that were up for grabs bookmarks the season with a success.
The manager and team screwed this up and I, along with the rest making negative posts, have good reason to make the comments they have made.

100%

[madhatter]

There is a jambo viewing this thread 🥴

They’ve got enough problems of their own. Heartsed it against Brora.

[Callyballybe]

If we had gotten beat and put out of the cups in the earlier rounds, and then come 3rd - I'd estimate we be satisfied enough. But we put ourselves in a position of potential greatness, and we haven't anything to show for it now.

Someone else brought it up already, but who remembers were we came in the league after the 91 Skol Cup win? Most folk won't be able to answer that without checking Wikipedia.

At the start of the season I would've taken 3rd. Had you told me how close we'd get to actually winning one or both of the cups, I'd have told you then that I'd be disappointed with the outcome.

I can't for the life of me consider this a successful season.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If we had gotten beat and put out of the cups in the earlier rounds, and then come 3rd - I'd estimate we be satisfied enough. But we put ourselves in a position of potential greatness, and we haven't anything to show for it now.

Someone else brought it up already, but who remembers were we came in the league after the 91 Skol Cup win? Most folk won't be able to answer that without checking Wikipedia.

At the start of the season I would've taken 3rd. Had you told me how close we'd get to actually winning one or both of the cups, I'd have told you then that I'd be disappointed with the outcome.

I can't for the life of me consider this a successful season.

So do you suggest we set retrospective goals for the next manager? Who do you want in place? Or are you not able to answer that until you know he’s won the cup?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Ross has done an excellent job. Not just good but excellent. We finished third in the league and reached two semi-finals plus a final. How many times have we achieved that in our history? We lost 1-0; one team has to lose. With our squad, which isn't brilliant, we've had a damn good season, and Ross and the players deserve great credit for how far they've come. It's only a couple of years since we were treading water in the Championship; let's remember that.

[neil7908]

So do you suggest we set retrospective goals for the next manager? Who do you want in place? Or are you not able to answer that until you know he’s won the cup?

Surely goals change based on circumstances? I had targets at work but then covid came along and we had to reassess.

Would 3rd still have been the target if this season if Sevco, Celtic and Aberdeen all went bust in September? Or would you reassess?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Surely goals change based on circumstances? I had targets at work but then covid came along and we had to reassess.

Would 3rd still have been the target if this season if Sevco, Celtic and Aberdeen all went bust in September? Or would you reassess?

Did they go bust?

[neil7908]

Did they go bust?

What a strange response. Of course they didn't. The point I made was very clear - you have targets but circumstances change and you revise them. In essence in the cups this year the teams I mentioned may as well have gone bust - they weren't in the competition anymore. So our targets are adjusted. And we failed. Not in the league but in the cups this season was a clear failure. Its up to each fan to decide what means more to them. I know what matters more to me.

[Magpie]

After the Hearts and St Johnstone defeat I created a thread calling for Jack’s head because I was highly disappointed with our performance and I felt as if he couldn’t get the best out of the team that we have, after today I believe that more than before. Everyone is untitled to their opinion but I honestly don’t think we will win anything under his management, I don’t think we will win our European qualifying round. I don’t want to be really negative and cause arguments but honestly from the bottom of my heart, I have already paid full up for my season ticket, he is not the right man for us. People can agree or disagree, I thank him for taking us 3rd etc but I feel like based on Aberdeen this season that 3rd should have been a given. I’m just really struggling to find any positivity from this. We have bottled three fantastic chances of silverware, I don’t think we will get those opportunities again for a long time. I would love to be proven wrong but we shall see.

[Danderhall Hibs]

What a strange response. Of course they didn't. The point I made was very clear - you have targets but circumstances change and you revise them. In essence in the cups this year the teams I mentioned may as well have gone bust - they weren't in the competition anymore. So our targets are adjusted. And we failed. Not in the league but in the cups this season was a clear failure. Its up to each fan to decide what means more to them. I know what matters more to me.

I’m not sure what’s strange - I’m not sure what you’re talking about now - we finished 3rd and none of them went bust. What did you want us to do?

[Callyballybe]

So do you suggest we set retrospective goals for the next manager? Who do you want in place? Or are you not able to answer that until you know he’s won the cup?

Nope. No where did I suggest any of the deflected questions you stated. Even after the several pints I've had I feel my point was clear enough that having put ourselves in a strong position - regardless of whether it was pre planned or expected - we should've done better with the time we had to prepare, against a team that isn't one of the old firm.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Nope. No where did I suggest any of the deflected questions you stated. Even after the several pints I've had I feel my point was clear enough that having put ourselves in a strong position - regardless of whether it was pre planned or expected - we should've done better with the time we had to prepare, against a team that isn't one of the old firm.

What goals would you have set jack Ross at the start of the season?

[Callyballybe]

What goals would you have set jack Ross at the start of the season?

Initially fighting for 3rd, but with Aberdeen having the bigger revenue streams realistically coming 4th wouldn't have been a failure (before knowing that McInnes/Aberdeen would have a nightmare run by their standards and he'd ultimately get punted)

Then quarter finals of the cup competitions, with the hope of a semifinal. Which in terms of expectations, would change as we realised the Old Firm wouldn't be in contention, nor Aberdeen or Hearts. Meaning that ultimately my expectations of us beating St Johnstone at least once - Which would have ultimately led to a potential cup win. Which would then have trumped (in my eyes) any 3rd place placement in the league.

My point was, goals that may have been set at the start of the season, surely change when the differentials change. I.e. The old firm not being involved in either of the semis, nor Hearts or Aberdeen.

[Zambernardi1875]

What goals would you have set jack Ross at the start of the season?

Aston Villa’s goals at the start of the season would’ve been to stay up, those projections would’ve changed as the season progressed.

[h1bs4life]

After the Hearts and St Johnstone defeat I created a thread calling for Jack’s head because I was highly disappointed with our performance and I felt as if he couldn’t get the best out of the team that we have, after today I believe that more than before. Everyone is untitled to their opinion but I honestly don’t think we will win anything under his management, I don’t think we will win our European qualifying round. I don’t want to be really negative and cause arguments but honestly from the bottom of my heart, I have already paid full up for my season ticket, he is not the right man for us. People can agree or disagree, I thank him for taking us 3rd etc but I feel like based on Aberdeen this season that 3rd should have been a given. I’m just really struggling to find any positivity from this. We have bottled three fantastic chances of silverware, I don’t think we will get those opportunities again for a long time. I would love to be proven wrong but we shall see.

Agree , after the Hearts semi wanted rid the same after St Johnstone semi .
As the season went on give him a chance and then on to cup final today to prove me wrong yet another embarrassment.
As usual renewed on the 1st week like I have always done but yet again another kick the baws . Get him to ****

[Danderhall Hibs]

Aston Villa’s goals at the start of the season would’ve been to stay up, those projections would’ve changed as the season progressed.

So did they fail then?

Do you do performance reviews at your work?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Agree , after the Hearts semi wanted rid the same after St Johnstone semi .
As the season went on give him a chance and then on to cup final today to prove me wrong yet another embarrassment.
As usual renewed on the 1st week like I have always done but yet again another kick the baws . Get him to ****

Who would you like to appoint who could do better than third in the league and reach a cup final in the same season? Pep Guardiola won't be interested in the Hibs job.

[Baader]

Agree , after the Hearts semi wanted rid the same after St Johnstone semi .
As the season went on give him a chance and then on to cup final today to prove me wrong yet another embarrassment.
As usual renewed on the 1st week like I have always done but yet again another kick the baws . Get him to ****

Support Chelsea

[h1bs4life]

Support Chelsea

Brilliant reply , well thought out

[h1bs4life]

Who would you like to appoint who could do better than third in the league and reach a cup final in the same season? Pep Guardiola won't be interested in the Hibs job.

Calum Davidson , someone who has and knows how to win things

[Danderhall Hibs]

Calum Davidson , someone who has and knows how to win things

He’d be hounded out before the cup final for playing negative football, only scraping top 6 then nearly blowing the 5th European spot.

[Baader]

Brilliant reply , well thought out

Yes, it gives you about the level of utter drivel you deserve. '4life' is a joke right?

[h1bs4life]

Yes, it gives you about the level of utter drivel you deserve. '4life' is a joke right?

Yet another superb reply what a difference you have made to this thread

[Unseen work]

I actually think he’s done really well with the squad he’s got, as on paper it’s not that amazing.

We have a small squad who more often than not have been well drilled and found goals through Boyle, Doidge and Nisbet.

Next season we’ll sign a lot more quality and have Allan, Mallan, Murphy and Magennis back and to full fitness.

Well go to another level again, I’ve no doubt.

I see we’re getting stick from Aberdeen and hearts fans etc because we lost again at Hampden. You need to get there, hence why the term “Hibsed it” is used. We seem like we lose more than others at Hampden but the fact is it’s because we make it there more than most.

When Ross took over we were close to relegation. 18 months later he has finished 3rd for the first time in 16 years in a difficult season with a small squad and took us to 2 semi finals and a final.

I much prefer this line of trajectory that the previous years I’ve saw Hibs.

Hopefully we add a bit more quality on the ball, creativity and swagger.

[yonder1875]

JR is a loser in my opinion and that won’t change.

Fair enough we finished 3rd in a weak top flight above a team who went around 10 games without scoring. But what he should be judged on are the three huge games at Hampden to which we haven’t turned up for a single one. Could not care less if he was sacked (which he won’t be).

[Unseen work]

Calum Davidson , someone who has and knows how to win things

He would get hounded out the club within weeks for his style of play.

They have 5 defenders and 2 sitting midfielders.

[Baader]

Yet another superb reply what a difference you have made to this thread

Calm down. And support Chelsea or Man City.

[Danderhall Hibs]

JR is a loser in my opinion and that won’t change.

Fair enough we finished 3rd in a weak top flight above a team who went around 10 games without scoring. But what he should be judged on are the three huge games at Hampden to which we haven’t turned up for a single one. Could not care less if he was sacked (which he won’t be).

You missed the one he won but either way - should the new manager be purely judged only on cup runs and not league performance?

[h1bs4life]

Calm down. And support Chelsea or Man City.

You have got me again with your brilliant responses . Season ticket holder at Easter Road for more years than I can remember .Famous five upper where is yours ?

[Baader]

You have got me again with your brilliant responses . Season ticket holder at Easter Road for more years than I can remember .Famous five upper where is yours ?

I have a season ticket in the East pal. Do you want to carry on? I am keen. More years than I can recall too.

[yonder1875]

You missed the one he won but either way - should the new manager be purely judged only on cup runs and not league performance?

Yas, we won a semi final.

As previous posters have alluded to, who actually cares about finishing third compared to the massive disappointments against Hearts at Hampden and St Johnstone. Three huge opportunities for us and failed them all and that’s what I judge it on.

[h1bs4life]

I have a season ticket in the East pal. Do you want to carry on? I am keen. More years than I can recall too.

Bash on , your quite happy with Ross despite getting turned over by Stendel Nielson and Davidson twice all in big games and took to the 2nd last game of the season to finally get away from an Aberdeen team that scored 1 goal in 10 games .

[Thegreenside]

Don’t want rid of Ross but he will never have the fans cos he can’t win big games

[Baader]

Bash on , your quite happy with Ross despite getting turned over by Stendel Nielson and Davidson twice all in big games and took to the 2nd last game of the season to finally get away from an Aberdeen team that scored 1 goal in 10 games .

I really suggest you get to bed mate. Only answered that I had a ST. Sleep well.

[h1bs4life]

I really suggest you get to bed mate. Only answered that I had a ST. Sleep well.

You replied to my post saying what I thought about Ross by saying go support Chelsea . I am quite happy to discuss anything about Hibs everyone has got there opinion
Your right it's been a long day .Sleep well .GGTTH

[Baader]

You replied to my post saying what I thought about Ross by saying go support Chelsea . I am quite happy to discuss anything about Hibs everyone has got there opinion
Your right it's been a long day .Sleep well .GGTTH

Of course. Today was a disappointment. GGTTH 🇳🇬

[Stokesy's on fire]

He would get hounded out the club within weeks for his style of play.

They have 5 defenders and 2 sitting midfielders.

And 2 cups

[HibsGW]

And 2 cups

This is such a cheap way to undermine them. They’d played a great high press on us and completely nullified us. Us not being able to create anything against then doesnt mean they have this minging style of play that people are suggesting.
Edit: as in, i Agree with you

[hibee92]

Total lack of awareness

One of the worst cup finals I’ve ever watched

Correct. Jack Ross is a loser.

[hibee92]

We’ll win nothing with that clown in the dug out

[Tambo]

Ross says he has the guts for Europe with Hibs.

[neil7908]

This is such a cheap way to undermine them. They’d played a great high press on us and completely nullified us. Us not being able to create anything against then doesnt mean they have this minging style of play that people are suggesting.
Edit: as in, i Agree with you

Yup. They aren't Barcelona but I thought they were a decent footballing team. Clearly they defend well first and foremost but there is a good bit of skill in that side.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We’ll win nothing with that clown in the dug out

Clown? Really?

We hardly ever win anything. We have about ten trophies in almost 150 years. We are all unhappy about yesterday, but we've lost many more finals than we've won.

[hibsbollah]

Clown? Really?

We hardly ever win anything. We have about ten trophies in almost 150 years. We are all unhappy about yesterday, but we've lost many more finals than we've won.

...but in terms of performance none of our defeats equals the total ineptitude of yesterday.

I tend to blame the individual players a bit more than the manager for failing to show any fight, but if Ron Gordon decided to hand Ross his jotters for failing to inspire a winning mentality or to come up with a tactical plan, which is his responsibility, I wouldn’t have any complaints.

[Hibernia&Alba]

...but in terms of performance none of our defeats equals the total ineptitude of yesterday.

I tend to blame the individual players a bit more than the manager for failing to show any fight, but if Ron Gordon decided to hand Ross his jotters for failing to inspire a winning mentality or to come up with a tactical plan, which is his responsibility, I wouldn’t have any complaints.

And that's fair enough; we all have our opinions. Personally, I'm firmly on the other side of the fence on this, and would be pretty disgusted if Hibs sacked a manager who delivered third and a cup final. He doesn't deserve the boot.

By the way, I remember a final in 2012 which plunged far lower depths than yesterday.

[hibsbollah]

And that's fair enough; we all have our opinions. Personally, I'm firmly on the other side of the fence on this, and would be pretty disgusted if Hibs sacked a manager who delivered third and a cup final. He doesn't deserve the boot.

By the way, I remember a final in 2012 which would plunged far lower depths than yesterday.

In terms of the actual play, yesterday was worse than the 2012 final. There were also a few Butcher era performances that came close. Still, ‘fine margins’ I suppose :grr:

[calumhibee1]

What do you think we get from hibs. This is as good as it gets.

Is that the expanding you were claiming you could do? :faf:

[Hibernia&Alba]

In terms of the actual play, yesterday was worse than the 2012 final. There were also a few Butcher era performances that came close. Still, ‘fine margins’ I suppose :grr:

Fair enough, mate, I always respect your opinions, but I'm more than happy for Ross to get next season. He got us third; Butcher got us relegated then we spent three years in the Championship, losing games at places like Alloa and Dumbarton. We were a laughing stock. Look where we are now: it's night and day.

[we are hibs]

We have lost to championship Hearts at Hampden, St.Johnstone twice at Hampden. 2 of the worst performances ive ever seen from Hibs at Hampden have happened under Jack Ross. This isnt a one off. This isnt a hard luck story or "fine margins" either. It isnt good enough. Weve had some of our worst collapses ive seen from a Hibs team since 2014 under Jack Ross. The warning signs were there when Hearts skudded us at Easter Road and not a single player looked interested. Thats now happened on numerous occassions under him. Yesterday wasnt a collapse but How many more times do we need a half arsed embarrassment like yesterday before something changes?



The entire mentality and attitude of the squad feels wrong. They start games thinking they are just going to turn up and win and our first half performances across the season have been abject and half arsed. Our performances in terms of style of play has been mostly abject. What exactly was our game plan after we weny behind yesterday from the great tactical mind in the dugout? Lets lump it up to Doidge and try and win 2nd balls. An amatuer team style of playing and we cant even do that because the half arsed midfield and players around the forwards were 2nd to every single 2nd ball as usual. We have obvious talent. We have obvious good footballers as we have shown in glimpses (aberdeen at ER) but we are nowhere near consistent enough in terms of level of performance and the same mistakes keep happening again and again and the buck has to stop at the managers door.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

Clown? Really?

We hardly ever win anything. We have about ten trophies in almost 150 years. We are all unhappy about yesterday, but we've lost many more finals than we've won.

Our lack of trophies historically shouldn’t be used as a justification for our bottle jobs going forward imo

[hibsbollah]

Fair enough, mate, I always respect your opinions, but I'm more than happy for Ross to get next season. Ge got us third; Butcher got us relegated then we spent three years in the Championship, losing games at places like Alloa and Dumbarton. We were a laughing stock. Look where we are now: it's night and day.

Likewise mate :agree:

But I do worry about where we’re headed. If you are more than happy to continue with the manager, what do you think needs to change? Do we sell Doig, Porteous, Nisbet and Boyle, recoup the reported £8-10 million we might get from those sales and have a total reboot? Sell one or two and evolve slowly? I suppose it depends if you think we finished 3rd because of Ross’ tactics or in spite of them.

Or it might be too early and the wounds too fresh to make a judgement.

[One Day Soon]

In terms of the actual play, yesterday was worse than the 2012 final. There were also a few Butcher era performances that came close. Still, ‘fine margins’ I suppose :grr:

I agree. It was way, way worse a performance than 2012. And today it feels even more of a miserably anti-climactic failure than it did yesterday.

[B.H.F.C]

So do you suggest we set retrospective goals for the next manager? Who do you want in place? Or are you not able to answer that until you know he’s won the cup?

You’re ignoring the very clear goals that JR has spoken about publicly. Third AND a cup. We didn’t deliver.

No need for anything retrospective.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Likewise mate :agree:

But I do worry about where we’re headed. If you are more than happy to continue with the manager, what do you think needs to change? Do we sell Doig, Porteous, Nisbet and Boyle, recoup the reported £8-10 million we might recoup from those sales and have a total reboot? Sell one or two and evolve slowly? I suppose it depends if you think we finished 3rd because of Ross’ tactics or in spite of them.

Or it might be too early and the wounds too fresh to make a judgement.

Good questions. I hope the board take time to reflect upon the season and think very carefully about such issues. Personally, I would hope we keep the majority of our better players; the players who achieved third. We need more creativity for sure: someone like a Scott Allan at his best. Evolve for me; no need to go nuclear at this stage. Of course much will depend upon whether we receive bids for some players that are just too good to refuse.

[calumhibee1]

Ross has done an excellent job. Not just good but excellent. We finished third in the league and reached two semi-finals plus a final. How many times have we achieved that in our history? We lost 1-0; one team has to lose. With our squad, which isn't brilliant, we've had a damn good season, and Ross and the players deserve great credit for how far they've come. It's only a couple of years since we were treading water in the Championship; let's remember that.

He hasnt.

He lead us to a bottom six finish. Then he lead us to third which he deserves credit for. He’s had numerous horror shows at Hampden when it really matters.

In no way can that be described as excellent.

[Causewayside PR]

Would be happy to see Ross out. Serial loser when it counts. When it really, really matters you can rely on him to deliver a terrible performance and lose. We won't win anything under Ross

[calumhibee1]

Would be happy to see Ross out. Serial loser when it counts. When it really, really matters you can rely on him to deliver a terrible performance and lose. We won't win anything under Ross

I’d put my house on us not winning anything with him as manager :agree:

[Tambo]

Said in the players thread that it always lays on the manager but the players let him down a bit.

Then you could twist it and say where’s is the motivation from the manager because after the only chance we had in the second half with Nisbet dragging his shot wide on the 46th mark we went back to not caring again.

Also you don’t see much from Jack on the touch line during a game getting his players up for it.

Do I want him sacked? No but like others have said wouldn’t be annoyed if ron did after the season performance review.