Ross out

[mcohibs]

I understand where you are coming from with regards to tough times ahead for Jack Ross but can’t understand this argument about it being laughable.

You’re using a serial history of failure to highlight why we haven’t failed now...

My concern is actually next season. As has been highlighted do people generally get excited about top 4 finish? When’s the tour of Edinburgh in open top bus? Cup wins are special. League finish is about building season on season and that’s where my problem is.

The Scottish Cup win was something that brought tears to grown men’s eyes. 4th place isn’t going to do that unless they’ve taken a hit to a delicate area...

Look at Aberdeen, building for 8 odd years with McInnes and solid league performance and parts of their support want rid. They are above us and have been for years. If we are mental, what are they? I’ll tell you - fans that want special cup wins and probably a change in style.

Club like Hibs need to win more cups when good opportunities come around. It builds profile of club and I’m sure Ron Gordon is aware of that only too well. How much money do we think club made from SC win? I’d expect much more than any 4th place finish.

Nail on the head for me. I don't think Ross should go but it's certainly not laughable to suggest that he should

[superfurryhibby]

We will never progress as a club if we continue to accept mediocrity like the above.

Accepting mediocrity takes away the fear of being mediocre?

[hibbysam]

I understand where you are coming from with regards to tough times ahead for Jack Ross but can’t understand this argument about it being laughable.

You’re using a serial history of failure to highlight why we haven’t failed now...

My concern is actually next season. As has been highlighted do people generally get excited about top 4 finish? When’s the tour of Edinburgh in open top bus? Cup wins are special. League finish is about building season on season and that’s where my problem is.

The Scottish Cup win was something that brought tears to grown men’s eyes. 4th place isn’t going to do that unless they’ve taken a hit to a delicate area...

Look at Aberdeen, building for 8 odd years with McInnes and solid league performance and parts of their support want rid. They are above us and have been for years. If we are mental, what are they? I’ll tell you - fans that want special cup wins and probably a change in style.

Club like Hibs need to win more cups when good opportunities come around. It builds profile of club and I’m sure Ron Gordon is aware of that only too well. How much money do we think club made from SC win? I’d expect much more than any 4th place finish.

No one is doubting it’s an opportunity passed, but we aren’t going to win trophies every year. Finishing 4th has huge value both for the club in terms of income and Europe, and in terms of fans getting European games and trips. We can do that year on year. Although not as big, those memories still last a long time with me and completely rubbishing them is carnage.

Folk are still talking about European games from 40/50 years ago, I actually hear about European games more than I do league championships.

[JimBHibees]

I understand where you are coming from with regards to tough times ahead for Jack Ross but can’t understand this argument about it being laughable.

You’re using a serial history of failure to highlight why we haven’t failed now...

My concern is actually next season. As has been highlighted do people generally get excited about top 4 finish? When’s the tour of Edinburgh in open top bus? Cup wins are special. League finish is about building season on season and that’s where my problem is.

The Scottish Cup win was something that brought tears to grown men’s eyes. 4th place isn’t going to do that unless they’ve taken a hit to a delicate area...

Look at Aberdeen, building for 8 odd years with McInnes and solid league performance and parts of their support want rid. They are above us and have been for years. If we are mental, what are they? I’ll tell you - fans that want special cup wins and probably a change in style.

Club like Hibs need to win more cups when good opportunities come around. It builds profile of club and I’m sure Ron Gordon is aware of that only too well. How much money do we think club made from SC win? I’d expect much more than any 4th place finish.

While there wouldn't be a open top bus for 4th it would clearly be progress and it is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

[JimBHibees]

No one is doubting it’s an opportunity passed, but we aren’t going to win trophies every year. Finishing 4th has huge value both for the club in terms of income and Europe, and in terms of fans getting European games and trips. We can do that year on year. Although not as big, those memories still last a long time with me and completely rubbishing them is carnage.

Folk are still talking about European games from 40/50 years ago, I actually hear about European games more than I do league championships.

Spot on.

[flash]

This forum is getting like Twitter and Facebook.

[JimBHibees]

Didn't we go 10 or so games recently undefeated against them?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Yeah but that doesn't count. :greengrin

[majorhibs]

Well the witch-hunt is up and running in full force now eh. For a manager sitting 4th. It’s really is laughable.
Btw, we’ve finished top 4, six times in 40 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

40 years ago teams outwith glesgae could & did win the league. Nowadays, due to size, attendances, revenue etc accepted it’s not happening again, title only ever to bigot bro’s. Size/attendance/revenue between Hibs & St J/Livi/Buddies etc means nowt much according to some of the “logic” here, plenty seemingly implyin we should just be happy with the displays in 2 X semi finals because of league position. Not for me

[JimBHibees]

This forum is getting like Twitter and Facebook.

Yep herd mentality 4 or 5 backing each other up almost as if it is orchestrated.

[JimBHibees]

40 years ago teams outwith glesgae could & did win the league. Nowadays, due to size, attendances, revenue etc accepted it’s not happening again, title only ever to bigot bro’s. Size/attendance/revenue between Hibs & St J/Livi/Buddies etc means nowt much according to some of the “logic” here, plenty seemingly implyin we should just be happy with the displays in 2 X semi finals because of league position. Not for me

Don't think anyone would be happy with Saturdays performance

[Hibs90]

Yep herd mentality 4 or 5 backing each other up almost as if it is orchestrated.

Could say the same for those on the other side of the fence.

[mcohibs]

This forum is getting like Twitter and Facebook.

In what sense?

[The Modfather]

Yep herd mentality 4 or 5 backing each other up almost as if it is orchestrated.

Not sure what side of the debate you’re describing as could be either 🤔

[flash]

In what sense?

Intellectually challenged.

[Shrekko]

Don’t understand why you asked when people started supporting Hibs and asking whether they know about the history of the club? Surely if anything that’s pretty much saying “don’t call for manager to be sacked because we’re normally failing so give the guy a break” or else I suppose it’s a dig at them being Hibs fans or at the very least questioning whether they are knowledgeable Hibs fans...

New breed of Hibs fan as well...pretty sure like every single club in the world our fans are pretty much normal. Mocking and less knowledgeable? You’ve said they are a new breed and questioned when they started supporting Hibs and how much they know about Hibs history.

I’m not that young now but if I was I’d find it difficult to get on to supporting Hibs as I think we are encouraged to remember we are serial failures to justify current failures. I even remember that when I was growing up “Get used to it, that’s Hibs”. People say they don’t accept mediocrity but tbh if you support Hibs you do, especially the younger you are. Passed down by generations “Typical Hibs”.

We just have varying levels of acceptance.

You don’t half make a lot of assumptions.

It’s fairly obvious that when you look at Hibs history that accepting our current position is not ‘accepting mediocrity’.

The only ones doing the mocking are the ones who tell you you’re accepting mediocrity by not being hysterical and calling for changes left, right and centre when things aren’t going well.

You can be disgusted at the team after both semi finals and our recent home defeats without having to demand the manager is sacked before he’s had a proper chance to get his team firing on all cylinders. We’ve had injuries, we have young players, we have new players bedding in - I still think we’re ok.

The point I’m making is how on earth would some of our fans made it through the 80’s and 90’s if they believe 4th is unacceptable.

[Brightside]

Hallberg second only to Boyle for overall assists
Doidge has outperformed Nisbet since Dec 1 (goals & assists)
Hibs have conceded 24 goals in 24 games
1/4 of them between Dec 26 - Jan 2
Conceded 42 in 24 games last season

Damn stats.

[madhatter]

While there wouldn't be a open top bus for 4th it would clearly be progress and it is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

I don’t think I suggested it wasn’t progress. Point I was trying to make is how do club follow it up next season as ST numbers inevitably fall? I personally think a cup win would’ve went a long way to encouraging renewals. Don’t see 4th having equal effect. Still need to secure 4th (or above). If we clinch 3rd it may show intent and get people talking...

Pandemic will have impact on our renewals and “we got 4th last season” isn’t that exciting. 2nd best of the rest...

History shows us that we fail the season after a high league finish. Fans know that as much as they know we don’t finish 4th often...

I’ll be renewing unless something catastrophic happens (my situation) but fans are used to not going to the games anymore and it’ll be a difficult ask to get them to come back. Anybody thinking that isn’t the case isn’t fulling considering the situation. Fans will need enticed back.

Maybe club are holding back big announcements for the renewal period (partnership with large European club) or something.

[mcohibs]

The point I’m making is how on earth would some of our fans made it through the 80’s and 90’s if they believe 4th is unacceptable.

No one is saying its unacceptable? Just that it shouldn't be seen as a massive achievement for a club like Hibs this season and certainly not one that can be used to excuse the fact we have blown the best opportunity we are likely to have for years at winning silverware.

[Andy74]

I don’t think I suggested it wasn’t progress. Point I was trying to make is how do club follow it up next season as ST numbers inevitably fall? I personally think a cup win would’ve went a long way to encouraging renewals. Don’t see 4th having equal effect. Still need to secure 4th (or above). If we clinch 3rd it may show intent and get people talking...

Pandemic will have impact on our renewals and “we got 4th last season” isn’t that exciting. 2nd best of the rest...

History shows us that we fail the season after a high league finish. Fans know that as much as they know we don’t finish 4th often...

I’ll be renewing unless something catastrophic happens (my situation) but fans are used to not going to the games anymore and it’ll be a difficult ask to get them to come back. Anybody thinking that isn’t the case isn’t fulling considering the situation. Fans will need enticed back.

Maybe club are holding back big announcements for the renewal period (partnership with large European club) or something.

I don’t think anyone would argue with what you’ve just said but in the context of sacking a manager or not we’d go through an awful lot of them if they don’t deliver the nice to have uplift of a cup win.

These are strange times but placing the onus of enticing fans back after a pandemic on the manager and suggesting that could only be done by cup wins or a third place finish is a bit much.

[madhatter]

You don’t half make a lot of assumptions.

It’s fairly obvious that when you look at Hibs history that accepting our current position is not ‘accepting mediocrity’.

The only ones doing the mocking are the ones who tell you you’re accepting mediocrity by not being hysterical and calling for changes left, right and centre when things aren’t going well.

You can be disgusted at the team after both semi finals and our recent home defeats without having to demand the manager is sacked before he’s had a proper chance to get his team firing on all cylinders. We’ve had injuries, we have young players, we have new players bedding in - I still think we’re ok.

The point I’m making is how on earth would some of our fans made it through the 80’s and 90’s if they believe 4th is unacceptable.

A few questions:
Why is everything about history? I can use history and say that when we finish 4th we are rubbish the following season so why get excited about it?
Where have I said fans are ‘accepting mediocrity’?
Where have I demanded the manager be sacked?
What’s the 80s and 90s got to do with now? Especially in terms of what a young Hibs fan knows - I mean if our history was so dire, why would you want them to endure it or use it as a lecture piece.

Being honest you may be trying to direct this to someone else as I think the most I said was people are on a spectrum with how they respond to these bad cup results and that, is in part, due to how long they’ve been a Hibs fan/alive.

Mocking is happening on both sides...

[Andy74]

A few questions:
Why is everything about history? I can use history and say that when we finish 4th we are rubbish the following season so why get excited about it?
Where have I said fans are ‘accepting mediocrity’?
Where have I demanded the manager be sacked?
What’s the 80s and 90s got to do with now? Especially in terms of what a young Hibs fan knows - I mean if our history was so dire, why would you want them to endure it or use it as a lecture piece.

Being honest you may be trying to direct this to someone else as I think the most I said was people are on a spectrum with how they respond to these bad cup results and that, is in part, due to how long they’ve been a Hibs fan/alive.

Mocking is happening on both sides...

I don’t think it is too difficult that when judging a particular team and manager you want to look firstly at how they compare to when the manager took over and then generally how they are doing compared to the usual.

That’s why there’s been some focus on both the frequency of Hibs teams historically getting 4th place and on winning cups.

Don’t think anyone is getting carried away that 4th and getting to semi finals is some sort of historic achievement. It is really context against the suggestion that a manager should be getting sacked in the current position, which many are making a case for.

[madhatter]

I don’t think anyone would argue with what you’ve just said but in the context of sacking a manager or not we’d go through an awful lot of them if they don’t deliver the nice to have uplift of a cup win.

These are strange times but placing the onus of enticing fans back after a pandemic on the manager and suggesting that could only be done by cup wins or a third place finish is a bit much.

I haven’t though - I questioned whether club have held back exciting news regarding a large European partnership at the end of my post. That’s got nothing to do with Jack Ross.

Renewals are going to be tough no doubt. Hopefully we have something up our sleeve.

[madhatter]

I don’t think it is too difficult that when judging a particular team and manager you want to look firstly at how they compare to when the manager took over and then generally how they are doing compared to the usual.

That’s why there’s been some focus on both the frequency of Hibs teams historically getting 4th place and on winning cups.

Don’t think anyone is getting carried away that 4th and getting to semi finals is some sort of historic achievement. It is really context against the suggestion that a manager should be getting sacked in the current position, which many are making a case for.

Everyone on here and on social media is magnifying the calls for manager to be sacked. It’s like everyone is in a pub with a megaphone. I voted for him to go petulantly when I was angry after the match. Since then I’ve reached the point of not really caring either way. I’ve got absolutely nothing against Jack Ross. Would love it for him and Hibs if it worked out, just unsure it will. I’m sure people that don’t post on social media go through their normal routine of shouting “f***ing idiot” in direction of the manager...through the TV of course. Certainly the abuse happens at ER as well. Usually much worse as well, Hecky got it tight near the end.

There is no venting while walking away after matches now. There is scream at TV, scream at the wall, scream into your hands then open laptop.

[Shrekko]

A few questions:
Why is everything about history? I can use history and say that when we finish 4th we are rubbish the following season so why get excited about it?
Where have I said fans are ‘accepting mediocrity’?
Where have I demanded the manager be sacked?
What’s the 80s and 90s got to do with now? Especially in terms of what a young Hibs fan knows - I mean if our history was so dire, why would you want them to endure it or use it as a lecture piece.

Being honest you may be trying to direct this to someone else as I think the most I said was people are on a spectrum with how they respond to these bad cup results and that, is in part, due to how long they’ve been a Hibs fan/alive.

Mocking is happening on both sides...

I’ve been generalising and not directing any of it specifically towards you.

I’m weary of the excessive hateful vitriol on social media and sometimes on here towards the manager, players, club officials. We have a right to criticise and have been let down badly, but ultimately we’re all meant to be in it together when push comes to shove. It goes way beyond reasonable criticIsm and genuine disappointment far too often.

[Callum_62]

Hallberg second only to Boyle for overall assists
Doidge has outperformed Nisbet since Dec 1 (goals & assists)
Hibs have conceded 24 goals in 24 games
1/4 of them between Dec 26 - Jan 2
Conceded 42 in 24 games last season

Damn stats.Shan league tho.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Crab apple]

Hallberg second only to Boyle for overall assists
Doidge has outperformed Nisbet since Dec 1 (goals & assists)
Hibs have conceded 24 goals in 24 games
1/4 of them between Dec 26 - Jan 2
Conceded 42 in 24 games last season

Damn stats.

In view of his recent form I was surprised Halberg didn't start on Saturday.

[Hibs90]

Intellectually challenged.

Have a word

[flash]

Have a word

I just did.

[Unseen work]

Lets flip this around on Jack Ross.

Why should Jack Ross be Hibernian manager? What has he achieved in his career to date as a manager? Whats his style of play? Whats his career achievement?

Got St Mirren Promoted - who cares.

Managed Sunderland for a bit in English 3rd tier and didnt get them promoted with by far the biggest budget in that league.

He is managing Hibs not some provincial ****** wee club, Hibs - massive in a Scottish Footbal context, massive.

How can you possibly ask what he has achieved and then when you mention getting promoted with St Mirren say you don’t care as if it’s not relevant?

Sunderland should be getting promoted however it’s an awful place to go and work by the looks of it and even the best of managers or players would struggle there.

You also don’t mention the good job he done at Alloa?

Or how he took over from us last season when he were 8/9th and doing terrible and within a year has us 3/4th in the league?

[Heisenberg]

How can you possibly ask what he has achieved and then when you mention getting promoted with St Mirren say you don’t care as if it’s not relevant?

Sunderland should be getting promoted however it’s an awful place to go and work by the looks of it and even the best of managers or players would struggle there.

You also don’t mention the good job he done at Alloa?

Or how he took over from us last season when he were 8/9th and doing terrible and within a year has us 3/4th in the league?

He actually won the league with St Mirren with 74 points. Lennon managed it with us with 71. Let’s also not forget St Mirren were nearly relegated the year before but he went in and saved them from that before coming back the next season to romp the league.

It’s not an achievement which should simply be cast aside as the poster you’ve quoted has done purely to fit their own agenda.

[Iain G]

There will be a lot of very excited people on the Jack Off thread when he eventually goes

[flash]

There are four schools of thought it seems.
1. The manager 100% must stay and be given time.
2. The manager needs to find a way to turn our current form around. He should get time to do so but not forever.
3. The manager has had too many disappointing performances in big matches and should probably be replaced although if we can turn things round I could be persuaded to change my mind.
4. He has no redeeming features at all and should be run out of town immediately.
Seems to me next to nobody is still at stage 1. Tge vast majority of us are either 2 or 3. Personally I am a 2 but completely understand where the 3s are coming from.
It's the 4s who I can't handle. Personal insults, Trump like denial of facts and a general lack of basic football knowledge.
They seem to be emboldened these days, presumably because that sort of witless abuse is prevalent on other Hibs social media platforms.
If you are unsure as to what I mean read the comments on Facebook or Twitter after every post the club puts up.
The replies are almost always abusive and generally not those of people who have the clubs best interests at heart.
I hope those of us at stages 2 and 3 continue to debate things robustly but in the main civilly. We all lose it sometimes and I have had to apologise to other posters before and no doubt will have to do so again in the future.
Fingers crossed for a big performance tonight so we can all have a positive outlook on the forum tomorrow.

[CallumLaidlaw]

There are four schools of thought it seems.
1. The manager 100% must stay and be given time.
2. The manager needs to find a way to turn our current form around. He should get time to do so but not forever.
3. The manager has had too many disappointing performances in big matches and should probably be replaced although if we can turn things round I could be persuaded to change my mind.
4. He has no redeeming features at all and should be run out of town immediately.
Seems to me next to nobody is still at stage 1. Tge vast majority of us are either 2 or 3. Personally I am a 2 but completely understand where the 3s are coming from.
It's the 4s who I can't handle. Personal insults, Trump like denial of facts and a general lack of basic football knowledge.
They seem to be emboldened these days, presumably because that sort of witless abuse is prevalent on other Hibs social media platforms.
If you are unsure as to what I mean read the comments on Facebook or Twitter after every post the club puts up.
The replies are almost always abusive and generally not those of people who have the clubs best interests at heart.
I hope those of us at stages 2 and 3 continue to debate things robustly but in the main civilly. We all lose it sometimes and I have had to apologise to other posters before and no doubt will have to do so again in the future.
Fingers crossed for a big performance tonight so we can all have a positive outlook on the forum tomorrow.

Really good summary. I’m firmly a 2 (not the first time I’ve heard that)

I’ve seen folk telling people they’re idiots for not wanting Ross sacked, being clueless about football, having no ambition and my personal favourite “accepting mediocrity”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

Really good summary. I’m firmly a 2 (not the first time I’ve heard that)

I’ve seen folk telling people they’re idiots for not wanting Ross sacked, being clueless about football, having no ambition and my personal favourite “accepting mediocrity”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And likewise there’s been those on the other side of the fence telling people they’re idiots for wanting him sacked. There’s folk like that on both sides.

[flash]

And likewise there’s been those on the other side of the fence telling people they’re idiots for wanting him sacked. There’s folk like that on both sides.

Calum, got you down as a 3 don't let me down.:wink:

[calumhibee1]

Calum, got you down as a 3 don't let me down.:wink:

:greengrin

To be fair I’d have myself down as a 3 and agree with most of your post :agree:

[flash]

:greengrin

To be fair I’d have myself down as a 3 and agree with most of your post :agree:

I do ratings on request. Could be the death of me on this forum.

[hibsbollah]

Really good summary. I’m firmly a 2 (not the first time I’ve heard that)

I’ve seen folk telling people they’re idiots for not wanting Ross sacked, being clueless about football, having no ambition and my personal favourite “accepting mediocrity”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also a fair few 4s pretending to be 3s.

[Allez Hibs]

Set up a poll.

[Keith_M]

"...not great since Boxing Day"

“There has to be a reaction from all of us, players and staff, when you have dropped below accepted standards as we did and then you receive deserved criticism in the aftermath. You have to show that resolve and respond to that. That's the nature of our job."

Says Jack Ross (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/not-great-boxing-day-honest-jack-ross-waits-see-hibs-players-response-cup-disappointment-3113863).

Personally, I think they need to get a sports psychologist but he doesn't seem convinced.

[Peevemor]

There are four schools of thought it seems.
1. The manager 100% must stay and be given time.
2. The manager needs to find a way to turn our current form around. He should get time to do so but not forever.
3. The manager has had too many disappointing performances in big matches and should probably be replaced although if we can turn things round I could be persuaded to change my mind.
4. He has no redeeming features at all and should be run out of town immediately.
Seems to me next to nobody is still at stage 1. Tge vast majority of us are either 2 or 3. Personally I am a 2 but completely understand where the 3s are coming from.
It's the 4s who I can't handle. Personal insults, Trump like denial of facts and a general lack of basic football knowledge.
They seem to be emboldened these days, presumably because that sort of witless abuse is prevalent on other Hibs social media platforms.
If you are unsure as to what I mean read the comments on Facebook or Twitter after every post the club puts up.
The replies are almost always abusive and generally not those of people who have the clubs best interests at heart.
I hope those of us at stages 2 and 3 continue to debate things robustly but in the main civilly. We all lose it sometimes and I have had to apologise to other posters before and no doubt will have to do so again in the future.
Fingers crossed for a big performance tonight so we can all have a positive outlook on the forum tomorrow.

Great post.

I'm definitely a 2, but like you I understand the 3s and personally I would have the 4s shot.

Not many of our managers will have had many "100% must stay", or at least not for all that long. The majority were a bit "meh" even when the likes of McLeish, Mowbray & Stubbs eventually moved on.

[Greenworld]

I'm so sorry but its a jack out for me .

Tommy Wright in till the end of the season

[Gypsy King]

Pros
He has assembled an excellent squad
Their seems to be Harmony within the squad
He is bringing through the first promising youth player from our academy in years
His points per game total is quite promising


Cons
Eye bleeding football
Bottling 2 massive opportunities for silverware
Says a lot without actually saying anything

I think we should give him until the end of the season. If he doesn't get us at least fourth we give him the bullet and assess from there.

[Allez Hibs]

Pros
He has assembled an excellent squad
Their seems to be Harmony within the squad
He is bringing through the first promising youth player from our academy in years
His points per game total is quite promising


Cons
Eye bleeding football
Bottling 2 massive opportunities for silverware
Says a lot without actually saying anything

I think we should give him until the end of the season. If he doesn't get us at least fourth we give him the bullet and assess from there.

Sensible post and I agree with most of it. Squad needs more balance for me.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55813482

I guess the fans see it very differently to Jack with regard to big games. With respect to Jack I think he needs to work on the intensity and mentality of big games. In England Pep, Jose and Klopp will all be way more intense ahead of a top 6 head to head typically on a Sunday 4:30pm kick off and that translates to the players.

He is basically saying every game is the same, something Hanlon said after the Hearts semi final.

[SHODAN]

There are four schools of thought it seems.
1. The manager 100% must stay and be given time.
2. The manager needs to find a way to turn our current form around. He should get time to do so but not forever.
3. The manager has had too many disappointing performances in big matches and should probably be replaced although if we can turn things round I could be persuaded to change my mind.
4. He has no redeeming features at all and should be run out of town immediately.
Seems to me next to nobody is still at stage 1. Tge vast majority of us are either 2 or 3. Personally I am a 2 but completely understand where the 3s are coming from.
It's the 4s who I can't handle. Personal insults, Trump like denial of facts and a general lack of basic football knowledge.
They seem to be emboldened these days, presumably because that sort of witless abuse is prevalent on other Hibs social media platforms.
If you are unsure as to what I mean read the comments on Facebook or Twitter after every post the club puts up.
The replies are almost always abusive and generally not those of people who have the clubs best interests at heart.
I hope those of us at stages 2 and 3 continue to debate things robustly but in the main civilly. We all lose it sometimes and I have had to apologise to other posters before and no doubt will have to do so again in the future.
Fingers crossed for a big performance tonight so we can all have a positive outlook on the forum tomorrow.

Good summary.

After taking some time to process Saturday I'm probably between two and three right now. He needs to start winning big games. Trouncing smaller teams in run-of-the-mill league games is nothing compared to a big cup win, or skelping one of the OF/Hearts.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm so sorry but its a jack out for me .

Tommy Wright in till the end of the season

What exactly will that achieve?

[B.H.F.C]

Good summary.

After taking some time to process Saturday I'm probably between two and three right now. He needs to start winning big games. Trouncing smaller teams in run-of-the-mill league games is nothing compared to a big cup win, or skelping one of the OF/Hearts.

Think he needs to get back to winning the run of the mill league games first and foremost. We won’t get anything tonight, the next couple are huge games before this poor form becomes more than that.

[Allez Hibs]

Think he needs to get back to winning the run of the mill league games first and foremost. We won’t get anything tonight, the next couple are huge games before this poor form becomes more than that.

Tonight is a free game for him. Just have a go and take the game to Rangers like we would under a good manager, put them under pressure from the start. No point trying to be clever tonight sitting in defensively.

[Gordy M]

Tonight is a free game for him. Just have a go and take the game to Rangers like we would under a good manager, put them under pressure from the start. No point trying to be clever tonight sitting in defensively.

Its absolutely not a free game is some supporters eyes. If we have a go and get beat 3-0, this place will go crazy.

[Andy74]

Tonight is a free game for him. Just have a go and take the game to Rangers like we would under a good manager, put them under pressure from the start. No point trying to be clever tonight sitting in defensively.

Like we would under a good manager? :rolleyes:

[B.H.F.C]

Its absolutely not a free game is some supporters eyes. If we have a go and get beat 3-0, this place will go crazy.

Rangers should beat us but if we have the right approach and give it a go, then I don’t think anybody will be overly critical. That was the case for most when they beat us a month ago. If we get beat 3-0’having totally went in to our shell like we did on Saturday, that’s a different story.

[Gordy M]

Rangers should beat us but if we have the right approach and give it a go, then I don’t think anybody will be overly critical. That was the case for most when they beat us a month ago. If we get beat 3-0’having totally went in to our shell like we did on Saturday, that’s a different story.

Id like to believe you, but im afraid that wont hapoen. Given the results over the last few weeks, ANY defeat, in any manner, will be used by those wanting Ross out to further their view he should be sacked.

[SlickShoes]

Its absolutely not a free game is some supporters eyes. If we have a go and get beat 3-0, this place will go crazy.

Agreed, the only positive outcome tonight is a win. Anything else he will get pelters and people will roll out the "weakest league ever" and "worst rangers team in a lifetime" nonsense, a fact that applied to one season when Ally McCoist was their manager and they've been getting consistently better since they settled with a manager and backed them even through some rough patches.....

[superfurryhibby]

Agreed, the only positive outcome tonight is a win. Anything else he will get pelters and people will roll out the "weakest league ever" and "worst rangers team in a lifetime" nonsense, a fact that applied to one season when Ally McCoist was their manager and they've been getting consistently better since they settled with a manager and backed them even through some rough patches.....

Nah, we all know the Hun are decent.

As BHFC says, it will be about performance. I can live with a defeat if the team actually look like they know what they are doing and have some kind of semi apparent game plan.

[B.H.F.C]

Agreed, the only positive outcome tonight is a win. Anything else he will get pelters and people will roll out the "weakest league ever" and "worst rangers team in a lifetime" nonsense, a fact that applied to one season when Ally McCoist was their manager and they've been getting consistently better since they settled with a manager and backed them even through some rough patches.....

Again, don’t think this is true. Dig out the match thread from the 2-2 draw earlier in the season and I bet the team were roundly praised.

[bingo70]

Id like to believe you, but im afraid that wont hapoen. Given the results over the last few weeks, ANY defeat, in any manner, will be used by those wanting Ross out to further their view he should be sacked.

I think it comes back to the category’s from earlier in the thread.

Categories 1-3 will be satisfied with us having a really good go, if we get stuck in and attack them then most will be satisfied enough with that.

Category 4 will want a win and take nothing less. Even with a win actually it will be pointed out he needs to do it more consistently.

FWIW I’m not sure what category I come under, I don’t like him as a manager, I don’t think he’ll ever turn this into a team I enjoy watching and think he’s as boring as the team. I would love it if he was to find another job but I also recognise now isn’t the time to sack him for a number of reasons.

I may not have sat on the fence quite so much on Saturday after the game though.

[Allez Hibs]

Being sensible and realistic - 3

But in truth - 4

Just can't see it working out long term at Hibs for him. Don't think he gets it. Not convinced so far. He's made a number of baffling comments since Saturday. Not every game is the same Jack. And how about thinking about the fans and their expectations?

[SHODAN]

Think he needs to get back to winning the run of the mill league games first and foremost. We won’t get anything tonight, the next couple are huge games before this poor form becomes more than that.

Absolutely.

[hibsbollah]

Thinking back, I’ve probably been a 2 or 3 for all the time I’ve supported Hibs and the managers been under pressure, with the one exception of Sauzee, who continued to be a 1 right up to the day he was sacked. I stayed away for a dozen or so games afterwards and I’ll never concede that sacking was in the best interests of the club, despite the league position at that time.

but love does strange things n’est ce pas...

Back to Ross, the main reason I don’t want him sacked (apart from the financial hit) is the pattern of play has been creating chances we aren’t finishing off and we have a defensive solidity now that is being spoiled by individual errors that are leading to goals. These are caused by lack of execution on the field, not tactical inadequacies IMO, and that’s why I’ve still got faith in him for now.

[Since452]

Hopefully thats Ross's first bad spell at the club over. 3rd very much still on. Onwards and upwards.

[Brightside]

A few faces will be quiet tonight.

[blackpoolhibs]

Ross in, and you can bookmark this all you want.

[lord bunberry]

A few faces will be quiet tonight.
Definitely.

[calumhibee1]

Hopefully thats Ross's first bad spell at the club over. 3rd very much still on. Onwards and upwards.

:agree:

We needed a win today. Deserved it as well which is even better.

[Magpie]

Delighted with the win. Still a long way to go in the season, onto St Mirren on Tuesday. Will be a tough game based on their last 2 games including today.

[Jones28]

A few faces will be quiet tonight.

Thank ****. Give the admins a night off

[chrisski33]

Ross must stay 😄😄 tbh utd in a poor spell if form. Good to see Darren back in the team

[chrisski33]

A few faces will be quiet tonight.

Happyclappers will vocal though! 😄😄

[The Spaceman]

A lot of folk will need to find something else to be angry and cry about tonight - great 3 points and back to business.

[bingo70]

Great manager, buzzing to hear his post match interview.

In all seriousness that was good today, no complaints at all so well done tk the manager and everyone involved.

That was a really important win today.

(Not a big game though, he’s no getting that 😂)

[HoboHarry]

A few faces will be quiet tonight.

Hope there's room under the bed for them and the dug 😂

[FilipinoHibs]

Played an absolute stormer and gave nothing away with his poker face. Right to bench the young lads with all the transfer speculation that must be spinning their heads. Cadden and Irvine great signings

[Wheat Hound]

Credit to Ross. Got his selection and tactics spot on. Hopefully go on a run now.

[GreenCastle]

Good win against the worst form team in the league.

Next 3 should be a good test.

St Mirren (who beat Celtic today) next.
Then Aberdeen - our recently record is awful against them.
Then Ross County who have been in bottom 2 of form league all season.

[Unseen work]

I’ve always been a Ross fan and never understood why people want him to leave.

Big 3 points tonight and 6 points off 2nd at the end of January/Start of February - who would ever think that would have happened?

[bingo70]

Played an absolute stormer and gave nothing away with his poker face. Right to bench the young lads with all the transfer speculation that must be spinning their heads. Cadden and Irvine great signings

Good point.

I thought Cadden was superb in the first half in particular. Irvine two excellent assists.

Onwards and upwards.

[Callum_62]

A lot of folk will need to find something else to be angry and cry about tonight - great 3 points and back to business.

We are selling all our talented young players for poor fees and Ron is taking all the money.

[Pretty Boy]

Excellent win today.

2 tough games up next, if we take 4 or 6 points from those then all the moaning, with a few exceptions, will subside. Lose them and.......

[bingo70]

I’ve always been a Ross fan and never understood why people want him to leave.

Big 3 points tonight and 6 points off 2nd at the end of January/Start of February - who would ever think that would have happened?

I don’t think anybody could have predicted Celtic dripping as many points as they have though.

Sorry, probably no need to bring that negativity to this thread, not sure us being 6 points off 2nd really tells the whole story of our season though.

[Wilson]

A lot of folk will need to find something else to be angry and cry about tonight - great 3 points and back to business.

Still not happy about the semi final. That result will hang over Ross for a while - in fact the big game hoodoo might until we put it to bed.

Any self respecting hibs fan has to be a bit happier today though.

[B.H.F.C]

I’ve always been a Ross fan and never understood why people want him to leave.

Big 3 points tonight and 6 points off 2nd at the end of January/Start of February - who would ever think that would have happened?

This isn’t me really criticising us. But I think that says more about them than us.

I actually think we’ve missed a chance to really go and push them. It’ll be a while before them or Rangers drop as many points again in a league season as what they’re going to drop this year.

[Allez Hibs]

Good 3 points today, nothing more than that. Lets hope for 3 points on Tuesday evening.

[tonyrougier123]

I hope Ross wins over his critics in the support,that’s about as nice I can be about a thread like this.

[A Hi-Bee]

Still not happy about the semi final. That result will hang over Ross for a while - in fact the big game hoodoo might until we put it to bed.

Any self respecting hibs fan has to be a bit happier today though.

the 2 semi finals will take a long time to get over, but when you think that Alex Millar got about 10 years at Hibs so he still has some time to go. He will need time, should he get it is another question.
:greengrin:greengrin

[mjhibby]

We seem to want our managers to live up to so expectations we very, very rarely achieve. In the last twenty years we have finished 3rd three times, 4th three times,5th once and 6th 3 times. So we get top four roughly once every three years, top six every second year and finish outside the top six every second year on average. Ross has got us looking at possibly our third highest points total in the last twenty years. You can use stats anyway you wish but I find it bizarre folk are questioning jack Ross when 1 point off third. Just my opinion but given he’s been in the job for 14 months just amazed at folks impatience.

[Lendo]

We seem to want our managers to live up to so expectations we very, very rarely achieve. In the last twenty years we have finished 3rd three times, 4th three times,5th once and 6th 3 times. So we get top four roughly once every three years, top six every second year and finish outside the top six every second year on average. Ross has got us looking at possibly our third highest points total in the last twenty years. You can use stats anyway you wish but I find it bizarre folk are questioning jack Ross when 1 point off third. Just my opinion but given he’s been in the job for 14 months just amazed at folks impatience.

That’s an excellent summary. I don’t know what some supporters expectation actually are. Do we really want to sack the manager (at a time when money is tight), bring someone new in, have yet another “transitional/rebuild period” only to end up back exactly where we are next season, with fickle supporters calling for yet another head.

[Since452]

Folk wanting him out after his first sticky patch is nuts. Every team will go through a bad spell but our players and manager are too good for it to last. He's trying to build something here and he's doing a pretty decent job of it so far.

[Lendo]

Folk wanting him out after his first sticky patch is nuts. Every team will go through a bad spell but our players and manager are too good for it to last. He's trying to build something here and he's doing a pretty decent job of it so far.

:top marks

[The Modfather]

We seem to want our managers to live up to so expectations we very, very rarely achieve. In the last twenty years we have finished 3rd three times, 4th three times,5th once and 6th 3 times. So we get top four roughly once every three years, top six every second year and finish outside the top six every second year on average. Ross has got us looking at possibly our third highest points total in the last twenty years. You can use stats anyway you wish but I find it bizarre folk are questioning jack Ross when 1 point off third. Just my opinion but given he’s been in the job for 14 months just amazed at folks impatience.


That’s an excellent summary. I don’t know what some supporters expectation actually are. Do we really want to sack the manager (at a time when money is tight), bring someone new in, have yet another “transitional/rebuild period” only to end up back exactly where we are next season, with fickle supporters calling for yet another head.


Folk wanting him out after his first sticky patch is nuts. Every team will go through a bad spell but our players and manager are too good for it to last. He's trying to build something here and he's doing a pretty decent job of it so far.

I know this debate has been done to death, and I stop short of wanting him sacked, but I don’t think some of the concerns are difficult to understand even if you don’t agree with them. For me I think his signings and league position are good. My concerns are around him in the big games (two semi finals and 2 of the 3 derbies for example), his style of play and how enjoyable it is (I’ve not really enjoyed the season) and whether he’s getting as much out of the squad he has built as he should be.

[Wilson]

That’s an excellent summary. I don’t know what some supporters expectation actually are. Do we really want to sack the manager (at a time when money is tight), bring someone new in, have yet another “transitional/rebuild period” only to end up back exactly where we are next season, with fickle supporters calling for yet another head.

There is a cost in sticking with the wrong man for too long too. I'm not saying Jack Ross is the wrong man but when we tank two semi finals and throw in our recent league form you can justify some doubt in his ability.

Those semi finals were big big opportunities and are big negatives on his record with us. Third place will appease most but defeats in big semi finals will follow him.

I hope he comes good.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm waiting to see our final league position before i cast my vote :)

[Robbo6-2]

Good 3 points today, nothing more than that. Lets hope for 3 points on Tuesday evening.

Exactly, it will take alot more than beating a terrible Dundee Utd side to change my mind.

The two semi final loses are unforgivable

[Crunchie]

Exactly, it will take alot more than beating a terrible Dundee Utd side to change my mind.

The two semi final loses are unforgivable
What does unforgivable mean to you personally? and have you experienced any other such results in your years of supporting Hibs?

Every manager I can think of have presided over some gut wrenching losses, the legendary Turnbull presided over more than a few, unforgivable? nah not even close.

[hibee-boys]

How many supporters would have viewed a semi final and 4th in the league as a successful season? I certainly would have taken that if offered at the beginning of the season. Now nothing is secured yet but, no matter what happens with the Scottish Cup, that is looking like the outcome, potentially 3rd. That is, for Hibs, a season of progress.

[Robbo6-2]

How many supporters would have viewed a semi final and 4th in the league as a successful season? I certainly would have taken that if offered at the beginning of the season. Now nothing is secured yet but, no matter what happens with the Scottish Cup, that is looking like the outcome, potentially 3rd. That is, for Hibs, a season of progress.

You cant say that in isolation. Of course 4th and semi on paper is acceptable.

However it was the manner of the defeat in the St Johnstone semi. We genuinely got spanked 3nil off a bang average side. He made bizarre tactical and sub decisions throughout when your looking at your manager to guide the team.

Boyle on the free kicks and corners for the first time all season a prime example.

[Robbo6-2]

What does unforgivable mean to you personally? and have you experienced any other such results in your years of supporting Hibs?

Every manager I can think of have presided over some gut wrenching losses, the legendary Turnbull presided over more than a few, unforgivable? nah not even close.

Unforgivable means the sack for me.

Of course we have had sickening results but those two are up there.

I cant even listen to him anymore. It's the same media training cliche words that he was taught on his A license. Very similar to Heckingbottom. They both obviously can put a cracking power point presentation to get the job in first place. But when it comes to the crunch they are weak mentally and are Yes men.

[hibee-boys]

You cant say that in isolation. Of course 4th and semi on paper is acceptable.

However it was the manner of the defeat in the St Johnstone semi. We genuinely got spanked 3nil off a bang average side. He made bizarre tactical and sub decisions throughout when your looking at your manager to guide the team.

Boyle on the free kicks and corners for the first time all season a prime example.

You’re right, awful performance and the sooner we get Boyle of set pieces the better, he delivered some honking balls yesterday, thankfully sounds like Newell not far away. But can we blame Ross for Boyle’s inability to deliver a half decent set piece. We’ve got to assume he can in training or he wouldn’t get the gig, you’d think🤔

The semi losses, and the livi/Ross county games are more a concern but I honestly think managers should be assessed over a longer run of games as opposed to any one game, I’m more inclined to look at the players for these one off under par performances. I’m happy to give Jack Ross the benefit of doubt for the rest of the season, and another window to fully shape his team/style. Saying that, he’s got to improve his results in the more high profile games, if we continue to fall short in these games into next season, with the resources he’s been given, then I’d fully expect him to be questioned.

[Allant1981]

Unforgivable means the sack for me.

Of course we have had sickening results but those two are up there.

I cant even listen to him anymore. It's the same media training cliche words that he was taught on his A license. Very similar to Heckingbottom. They both obviously can put a cracking power point presentation to get the job in first place. But when it comes to the crunch they are weak mentally and are Yes men.


So you know him personally to know he is mentally weak? In what way is he a yes man? You work with him everyday so knows he agrees with every single thing he is told to do? Wish I was in such a fortunate position

[Crunchie]

Unforgivable means the sack for me.

Of course we have had sickening results but those two are up there.

I cant even listen to him anymore. It's the same media training cliche words that he was taught on his A license. Very similar to Heckingbottom. They both obviously can put a cracking power point presentation to get the job.

We had no right to win either semi but with better finishing we would have won both.

No manager can legislate for individual player performances in a game, you seem to have a skewed perception of what a manager can and can't do.

Ross will get us to regular semi finals/ finals, with a bit of luck we'll win a few. I've no doubts we'll lose a few more, that's cup football.

[MWHIBBIES]

Unforgivable means the sack for me.

Of course we have had sickening results but those two are up there.

I cant even listen to him anymore. It's the same media training cliche words that he was taught on his A license. Very similar to Heckingbottom. They both obviously can put a cracking power point presentation to get the job in first place. But when it comes to the crunch they are weak mentally and are Yes men.

Why is he a yes man? No suggestion of that at all. Weak mentally? I don't think anyone makes it as a footballer for years, then manages big clubs like Hibs and Sunderland while being weak mentally. Honestly, if you cannot see the many positive things Ross has done here and look past the negatives at all, you are the one who is weak mentally. If he finishes 3rd, he'll have done a fantastic job overall this season.

[Brightside]

You cant say that in isolation. Of course 4th and semi on paper is acceptable.

However it was the manner of the defeat in the St Johnstone semi. We genuinely got spanked 3nil off a bang average side. He made bizarre tactical and sub decisions throughout when your looking at your manager to guide the team.

Boyle on the free kicks and corners for the first time all season a prime example.

Normal dead ball takers weren’t on the pitch. So it goes to Boyle. This stuff isn’t hard to understand. Newall. Then Hallberg. Maybe mallan. None of them on the pitch.

[Brightside]

Unforgivable means the sack for me.

Of course we have had sickening results but those two are up there.

I cant even listen to him anymore. It's the same media training cliche words that he was taught on his A license. Very similar to Heckingbottom. They both obviously can put a cracking power point presentation to get the job in first place. But when it comes to the crunch they are weak mentally and are Yes men.

That’s an awful post. And he doesn’t use PowerPoint. They don’t do that on the A course.

[Crunchie]

That’s an awful post. And he doesn’t use PowerPoint. They don’t do that on the A course.
He seems to have an underlying dislike for the man.

We were all disappointed with the 2 semi final losses but to turn round and say he can't stand to listen to him anymore? something else going on there imo.

[Robbo6-2]

He seems to have an underlying dislike for the man.

We were all disappointed with the 2 semi final losses but to turn round and say he can't stand to listen to him anymore? something else going on there imo.

No I don't have a underlying dislike for him, i just dont want him to be Hibs manager anymore.

Just because I dont agree with your opinion doesn't mean something else is going on.

If your happy to accept what Ross has delivered in his time here then that's fine by me. Personally I dont think he gets the club and his football is terrible to watch.

[Crunchie]

No I don't have a underlying dislike for him, i just dont want him to be Hibs manager anymore.

Just because I dont agree with your opinion doesn't mean something else is going on.

If your happy to accept what Ross has delivered in his time here then that's fine by me. Personally I dont think he gets the club and his football is terrible to watch.
It's not a black or white issue, I'm happy to give the guy a chance based on results and circumstances.

He's been in the door 2 minutes, let's give him at least 2 full years before forming an opinion, he's done absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise.

FWIW I think he gets the club a lot more than a lot of posters on here.

[FilipinoHibs]

I always do this test when wanting a new Hibs' manager. Who of the other 11 SPFL managers would you take to replace him if we sacked him. Currently I am at zero

[The Modfather]

I always do this test when wanting a new Hibs' manager. Who of the other 11 SPFL managers would you take to replace him if we sacked him. Currently I am at zero

Out of interest, why limit yourself to only the managers in our league?

[Sioux]

No I don't have a underlying dislike for him, i just dont want him to be Hibs manager anymore.

Just because I dont agree with your opinion doesn't mean something else is going on.

If your happy to accept what Ross has delivered in his time here then that's fine by me. Personally I dont think he gets the club and his football is terrible to watch.

The best solution for you is that Hibs don't reach semi-finals.

On another point, I can't really remember a team in the top league in Scotland that can be described as an entertaining football team. Aberdeen and hertz have been tagged the so called 'best of the rest' for a long time. Have they been entertaining?

When Fergie was at Aberdeen, perhaps. Jim McLean's side was based on Narey passing the ball back to the goalkeeper to launch it up the park. In '86 hertz were the same, launch it to Clark and see what happens. We saw what happened there.

This entertaining attractive football is a myth. It's only achievable, results wise, if the players are of a standard capable of being better than the rest. Rantic will always ensure that doesn't happen at Easter Road or anywhere else in Scotland.

The Walt Disney magic kingdom stuff won't be happening.

[Crunchie]

The best solution for you is that Hibs don't reach semi-finals.

On another point, I can't really remember a team in the top league in Scotland that can be described as an entertaining football team. Aberdeen and hertz have been tagged the so called 'best of the rest' for a long time. Have they been entertaining?

When Fergie was at Aberdeen, perhaps. Jim McLean's side was based on Narey passing the ball back to the goalkeeper to launch it up the park. In '86 hertz were the same, launch it to Clark and see what happens. We saw what happened there.

This entertaining attractive football is a myth. It's only achievable, results wise, if the players are of a standard capable of being better than the rest. Rantic will always ensure that doesn't happen at Easter Road or anywhere else in Scotland.

The Walt Disney magic kingdom stuff won't be happening.
Spot on, and it's nigh on impossible to play that kind of football on the pitches we have in the winter here.

[Keith_M]

I always do this test when wanting a new Hibs' manager. Who of the other 11 SPFL managers would you take to replace him if we sacked him. Currently I am at zero


Steven Gerrard, but only if we get the budget he has at Ibrox to go with it.

[B.H.F.C]

The best solution for you is that Hibs don't reach semi-finals.

On another point, I can't really remember a team in the top league in Scotland that can be described as an entertaining football team. Aberdeen and hertz have been tagged the so called 'best of the rest' for a long time. Have they been entertaining?

When Fergie was at Aberdeen, perhaps. Jim McLean's side was based on Narey passing the ball back to the goalkeeper to launch it up the park. In '86 hertz were the same, launch it to Clark and see what happens. We saw what happened there.

This entertaining attractive football is a myth. It's only achievable, results wise, if the players are of a standard capable of being better than the rest. Rantic will always ensure that doesn't happen at Easter Road or anywhere else in Scotland.

The Walt Disney magic kingdom stuff won't be happening.

Surely the best solution to win the semi finals?

[Since452]

If we tried to play open expansive football we'd be down the bottom end of the table. Too easy to play against these days. McInnes sussed out years ago how to regularly finish 2nd/3rd. Funny thing is I don't think we're as bad to watch as some folk make out.

[Crunchie]

If we tried to play open expansive football we'd be down the bottom end of the table. Too easy to play against these days. McInnes sussed out years ago how to regularly finish 2nd/3rd. Funny thing is I don't think we're as bad to watch as some folk make out.
Nor me, some of the pundits think we play attractive football too, mainly Michael Stewart.

[Key West]

Jack Ross will make mistakes, so will the players and so will we in our observations and predictions, it doesn’t bother me wether some think he is the perfect fit and others think that he is not good enough, I do think that the criticism sometimes spills over into hostility and the other side of the coin is that a degree of success makes others think we are going to hammer the likes of Ross County just because we are Hibs.
I console myself in the knowledge that none of us are involved in the preparations for the next fixture.:wink:

[Peevemor]

Why do some people put so much importance on a manager's interviews and press conferences? At least 9 times out of 10 they're just going through the motions, both the reporters & the managers.

FWIW I think JR is the best manager we've had for this stuff in a long time.

In any case, whatever he says will be manipulated by the life-suckers (who were unsurprisingly largely absent from here last night) to suit their own attention seeking egos.

[The Modfather]

The best solution for you is that Hibs don't reach semi-finals.

On another point, I can't really remember a team in the top league in Scotland that can be described as an entertaining football team. Aberdeen and hertz have been tagged the so called 'best of the rest' for a long time. Have they been entertaining?

When Fergie was at Aberdeen, perhaps. Jim McLean's side was based on Narey passing the ball back to the goalkeeper to launch it up the park. In '86 hertz were the same, launch it to Clark and see what happens. We saw what happened there.

This entertaining attractive football is a myth. It's only achievable, results wise, if the players are of a standard capable of being better than the rest. Rantic will always ensure that doesn't happen at Easter Road or anywhere else in Scotland.

The Walt Disney magic kingdom stuff won't be happening.

How do you define entertaining attractive football? I’ve seen what I’d class as good football, in various spells and for different lengths of time, under Mowbray, Collins & Lennon. I don’t think all 3 played the exact same way. For me a key component to “good” football is the midfield. You need to dominate that area with energy, drive and quality and the other areas will feed off the midfield.

I do accept that there’s probably a lot more evidence that pragmatic industrious style football is the more effective style for success in the SPL, but the flip side to that is that along with Aberdeen’s consistency they’ve been heavily criticised on here for their style.

I’m not sure what your definition is of the “Walt Disney magic kingdom stuff” is or who is calling for that.

[hibsbollah]

No I don't have a underlying dislike for him, i just dont want him to be Hibs manager anymore.

Just because I dont agree with your opinion doesn't mean something else is going on.

If your happy to accept what Ross has delivered in his time here then that's fine by me. Personally I dont think he gets the club and his football is terrible to watch.

‘what he has delivered in his time here’ is what you’re asking about.

Since he started last November, in the league His record is P 56 W28-D12-L16, a 50% win ratio. By our standards that’s very good historically except for when we’ve been out of the top tier.

He also inherited a terrible situation from Heckinbotham.

We’re still well on track for 4th and European qualification, something we’ve never bettered in 16 years of trying. Even in the last couple of months, when the pressure from some sections of the support has been ramped up, are the results really that bad?

December big wins against Hamilton and Motherwell at home, combined 7-0, beat Alloa in quarters, beat St Mirren, narrow 1-0 defeat to the hun, concede last minute equaliser to draw 1-1 Dundee Utd and lose against Ross County.

January starts with a bad home defeat vs Livvy, who are in good form, then we take a point at Celtic, beat Kilmarnock,lose the semi 3-0 vs St Johnstone, lose 1-0 to the hun again in the Morelos stamp game and beat Dundee Utd. 6 wins 2 draws 5 defeats in December and January, three of those 13 games against the old firm too. It’s not like we’re on some sort of historic slide of terrible results :dunno:

So to summarise, you can’t argue with the league form. It’s very good and it has on course for Europe.
Cup form? We’ve lost two semi finals. Never nice to take, but he did get us there in the first place.
style of play? Most folk agree it’s not been great. Not at Mowbray level.

There really isn’t anything there that justifies sacking your manager. It’s just a fairly dull, but solidly above average 7/10 performance. It genuinely baffles me that some folk think sack talk is justified.

[G B Young]

The best solution for you is that Hibs don't reach semi-finals.

On another point, I can't really remember a team in the top league in Scotland that can be described as an entertaining football team. Aberdeen and hertz have been tagged the so called 'best of the rest' for a long time. Have they been entertaining?

When Fergie was at Aberdeen, perhaps. Jim McLean's side was based on Narey passing the ball back to the goalkeeper to launch it up the park. In '86 hertz were the same, launch it to Clark and see what happens. We saw what happened there.

This entertaining attractive football is a myth. It's only achievable, results wise, if the players are of a standard capable of being better than the rest. Rantic will always ensure that doesn't happen at Easter Road or anywhere else in Scotland.

The Walt Disney magic kingdom stuff won't be happening.


Somebody posted our 21st century cup record on another thread (or possibly this one), which I think showed we have reached more semi-finals and finals than any club outwith Celtic and Rangers.

However, the number of those games we have actually won (it's something like 5 out of 22?) has made me wonder if it would be less taxing on us all emotionally if we didn't reach the latter stages of cups so often?

When you look at the teams we have played in those games, it's by no means mostly Celtic or Rangers (and our record against Rangers is actually good) and it seem scarcely credible we have lost so many games you'd have fancied us, on paper, to have won. Heading home after letdowns like those is way worse than losing a game we never really expected to win (ie the games against Celtic).

I was still waking up well into last week and having to remind myself that it wasn't a bad dream. We really did lose 3-0 to St Johnstone. Would it be easier to move on from, say a last-16/quarter-final exit to another top flight club than reach the semi-finals so often, only to have our hopes dashed?

[Sioux]

Surely the best solution to win the semi finals?

Unless you're a dafty, you'll know that semi-finals are a difficult hurdle to overcome, in all sports. Demanding that those games are won is just plain stupid.

The hard of thinking always blame the manager for the defeats, and find excuses as to why the players performed below par, or made errors bordering on amateur players.

The latest nonsense that's crept in is that when we win, we were playing against a crap team.

There used to be a good vibe on this forum, a while ago. Now its infested with people who simply want to find fault with anything and everything. Attention seeking at its best. It's hard to believe that those same people would behave like that in the real world. If they did, they'd most likely be ignored and have no one to interact with, and then be forced to speak in the virtual world..............

[blackpoolhibs]

No I don't have a underlying dislike for him, i just dont want him to be Hibs manager anymore.

Just because I dont agree with your opinion doesn't mean something else is going on.

If your happy to accept what Ross has delivered in his time here then that's fine by me. Personally I dont think he gets the club and his football is terrible to watch.

Making things up puts you in Trump territory.

[Borderhibbie76]

‘what he has delivered in his time here’ is what you’re asking about.

Since he started last November, in the league His record is P 56 W28-D12-L16, a 50% win ratio. By our standards that’s very good historically except for when we’ve been out of the top tier.

He also inherited a terrible situation from Heckinbotham.

We’re still well on track for 4th and European qualification, something we’ve never bettered in 16 years of trying. Even in the last couple of months, when the pressure from some sections of the support has been ramped up, are the results really that bad?

December big wins against Hamilton and Motherwell at home, combined 7-0, beat Alloa in quarters, beat St Mirren, narrow 1-0 defeat to the hun, concede last minute equaliser to draw 1-1 Dundee Utd and lose against Ross County.

January starts with a bad home defeat vs Livvy, who are in good form, then we take a point at Celtic, beat Kilmarnock,lose the semi 3-0 vs St Johnstone, lose 1-0 to the hun again in the Morelos stamp game and beat Dundee Utd. 6 wins 2 draws 5 defeats in December and January, three of those 13 games against the old firm too. It’s not like we’re on some sort of historic slide of terrible results :dunno:

So to summarise, you can’t argue with the league form. It’s very good and it has on course for Europe.
Cup form? We’ve lost two semi finals. Never nice to take, but he did get us there in the first place.
style of play? Most folk agree it’s not been great. Not at Mowbray level.

There really isn’t anything there that justifies sacking your manager. It’s just a fairly dull, but solidly above average 7/10 performance. It genuinely baffles me that some folk think sack talk is justified.

Spot on this great summary 👏

[Centre Hawf]

Yesterday was far better than it had been in months over 90 minutes. We had a plan/system for going forward. We were solid at the back.

Carry on like that and we may have a chance of doing something under Ross

[Northernhibee]

‘what he has delivered in his time here’ is what you’re asking about.

Since he started last November, in the league His record is P 56 W28-D12-L16, a 50% win ratio. By our standards that’s very good historically except for when we’ve been out of the top tier.

He also inherited a terrible situation from Heckinbotham.

We’re still well on track for 4th and European qualification, something we’ve never bettered in 16 years of trying. Even in the last couple of months, when the pressure from some sections of the support has been ramped up, are the results really that bad?

December big wins against Hamilton and Motherwell at home, combined 7-0, beat Alloa in quarters, beat St Mirren, narrow 1-0 defeat to the hun, concede last minute equaliser to draw 1-1 Dundee Utd and lose against Ross County.

January starts with a bad home defeat vs Livvy, who are in good form, then we take a point at Celtic, beat Kilmarnock,lose the semi 3-0 vs St Johnstone, lose 1-0 to the hun again in the Morelos stamp game and beat Dundee Utd. 6 wins 2 draws 5 defeats in December and January, three of those 13 games against the old firm too. It’s not like we’re on some sort of historic slide of terrible results :dunno:

So to summarise, you can’t argue with the league form. It’s very good and it has on course for Europe.
Cup form? We’ve lost two semi finals. Never nice to take, but he did get us there in the first place.
style of play? Most folk agree it’s not been great. Not at Mowbray level.

There really isn’t anything there that justifies sacking your manager. It’s just a fairly dull, but solidly above average 7/10 performance. It genuinely baffles me that some folk think sack talk is justified.

That is a superb post.

[SHODAN]

Yesterday was a good start for the Jack Ross redemption arc. Hopefully it keeps going.

[Northernhibee]

I know this is a simplistic way of looking at it, but in any knockout competition there is only one team at the end of it that can boast about not losing a match in the competition. Unless you are by far the largest team in the competition or are out in an early ground to a lower league team, losing a cup game is not a call for a sacking but statistically highly probable.

We moaned that Stubbs got us winning the big games but couldn’t beat the Dumbartons,Alloas and the like. Ross is almost the other way round and the same figures are at it. It’s almost as if the expectation is for Hibs to win every game and less than that is a tragedy.

[Magpie]

Yesterday was a good start for the Jack Ross redemption arc. Hopefully it keeps going.

Tuesday would be a good win based on St Mirren’s last two results. I think it will be very difficult. Aberdeen is the big one on Saturday, we need to break that curse.

[calumhibee1]

If we tried to play open expansive football we'd be down the bottom end of the table. Too easy to play against these days. McInnes sussed out years ago how to regularly finish 2nd/3rd. Funny thing is I don't think we're as bad to watch as some folk make out.

What has changed since 17/18 that means attractive football puts you down the bottom of the league? :confused:

We had our highest ever points total - and a league winning-esque run that coincided with our best style of football in absolutely ages.

The teams that finish high up in leagues all over the world more often than not play exciting, expansive football - Liverpool done it last year, Rangers this year etc

[Jones28]

No I don't have a underlying dislike for him, i just dont want him to be Hibs manager anymore.

Just because I dont agree with your opinion doesn't mean something else is going on.

If your happy to accept what Ross has delivered in his time here then that's fine by me. Personally I dont think he gets the club and his football is terrible to watch.

Can you define “getting the club”?

[calumhibee1]

Can you define “getting the club”?

I know you’re not asking me, but in terms of “getting the club” I’d say that would be playing a style of football that fits with our tradition of playing exciting, attacking football and playing a style of football that pleases the fans.

I wouldn’t use the term doesn’t get the club myself, but I can see what the poster means with it. From watching us since Ross came in, style seems to be fairly low down the list of priorities. Traditionally at Hibs, that’s not the case.

[Peevemor]

What has changed since 17/18 that means attractive football puts you down the bottom of the league? :confused:

We had our highest ever points total - and a league winning-esque run that coincided with our best style of football in absolutely ages.

The teams that finish high up in leagues all over the world more often than not play exciting, expansive football - Liverpool done it last year, Rangers this year etcWe all enjoy football and runs like that. The problem is that we started the following season without McGinn, McGeouch and 2 guys that looked like Kamberi & Maclaren but certainly weren't playing anything like them.

It's basically impossible for a club like Hibs to replace 4 talents like that like-for-like.

We'd all like those 4 months of football to be the norm but most of us are realistic enough to appreciate it when it happens without throwing tantrums when it doesn't.

[calumhibee1]

We all enjoy football and runs like that. The problem is that we started the following season without McGinn, McGeouch and 2 guys that looked like Kamberi & Maclaren but certainly weren't playing anything like them.

It's basically impossible for a club like Hibs to replace 4 talents like that like-for-like.

We'd all like those 4 months of football to be the norm but most of us are realistic enough to appreciate it when it happens without throwing tantrums when it doesn't.

Not debating that at all, well not get back to that level for a long time purely because of the exceptional ability of some of that team all coming together once.

I don’t for a second agree that playing open expansive football means you’ll end up down the bottom of the league or that it’s somehow easy to play against though or else the likes of Liverpool last season or Rangers this season would struggle near enough every week when in reality it’s the complete opposite.

Very rarely does a team win the league/challenge at the top end of the league and play ‘boring’ football. It happens, but it’s the exception rather than the rule.

[Stanton Spence]

‘what he has delivered in his time here’ is what you’re asking about.

Since he started last November, in the league His record is P 56 W28-D12-L16, a 50% win ratio. By our standards that’s very good historically except for when we’ve been out of the top tier.

He also inherited a terrible situation from Heckinbotham.

We’re still well on track for 4th and European qualification, something we’ve never bettered in 16 years of trying. Even in the last couple of months, when the pressure from some sections of the support has been ramped up, are the results really that bad?

December big wins against Hamilton and Motherwell at home, combined 7-0, beat Alloa in quarters, beat St Mirren, narrow 1-0 defeat to the hun, concede last minute equaliser to draw 1-1 Dundee Utd and lose against Ross County.

January starts with a bad home defeat vs Livvy, who are in good form, then we take a point at Celtic, beat Kilmarnock,lose the semi 3-0 vs St Johnstone, lose 1-0 to the hun again in the Morelos stamp game and beat Dundee Utd. 6 wins 2 draws 5 defeats in December and January, three of those 13 games against the old firm too. It’s not like we’re on some sort of historic slide of terrible results :dunno:

So to summarise, you can’t argue with the league form. It’s very good and it has on course for Europe.
Cup form? We’ve lost two semi finals. Never nice to take, but he did get us there in the first place.
style of play? Most folk agree it’s not been great. Not at Mowbray level.

There really isn’t anything there that justifies sacking your manager. It’s just a fairly dull, but solidly above average 7/10 performance. It genuinely baffles me that some folk think sack talk is justified.As others have said great post [emoji1303]
According to some this is one of the worst hibs sides ever?? I think the squad we have has a lot of talent but for different reasons and circumstances we haven't been able to get our best side on the park

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

Not debating that at all, well not get back to that level for a long time purely because of the exceptional ability of some of that team all coming together once.

I don’t for a second agree that playing open expansive football means you’ll end up down the bottom of the league or that it’s somehow easy to play against though or else the likes of Liverpool last season or Rangers this season would struggle near enough every week when in reality it’s the complete opposite.

Very rarely does a team win the league/challenge at the top end of the league and play ‘boring’ football. It happens, but it’s the exception rather than the rule.After the winter break in the season mentioned, we kept 5 clean sheets in 17 league & SC matches. If (very simplistically I admit) you replace the strike force for one that is misfiring and/or not getting decent service, those good results quickly become bottom 6 form.

That's where a manager, worried about his own job as much as anything else, might start to change things in an effort to grind our results & pick up points rather than play beautiful football.

Who knows, maybe with the signings of Cadden & Irvine we've turned a wee corner that will see Doidge & Nisbet back to their best and less pressure on the defence (therefore less brain farts) because we're keeping the ball better.

As JR often says, it comes down to very fine margins.

[Since452]

I know this is a simplistic way of looking at it, but in any knockout competition there is only one team at the end of it that can boast about not losing a match in the competition. Unless you are by far the largest team in the competition or are out in an early ground to a lower league team, losing a cup game is not a call for a sacking but statistically highly probable.

We moaned that Stubbs got us winning the big games but couldn’t beat the Dumbartons,Alloas and the like. Ross is almost the other way round and the same figures are at it. It’s almost as if the expectation is for Hibs to win every game and less than that is a tragedy.

Stubbs was hit or miss in big games. Despite the obvious big games he won, he also lost a semi final to Falkirk, a final to Ross County and didn't even make a playoff final in two attempts. Stubbs proved that the more you get to the latter stages the more chance you'll have of winning them. Ross has got us to two semis in little over a year, there'll be more.

[The Modfather]

After the winter break in the season mentioned, we kept 5 clean sheets in 17 league & SC matches. If (very simplistically I admit) you replace the strike force for one that is misfiring and/or not getting decent service, those good results quickly become bottom 6 form.

That's where a manager, worried about his own job as much as anything else, might start to change things in an effort to grind our results & pick up points rather than play beautiful football.

Who knows, maybe with the signings of Cadden & Irvine we've turned a wee corner that will see Doidge & Nisbet back to their best and less pressure on the defence (therefore less brain farts) because we're keeping the ball better.

As JR often says, it comes down to very fine margins.

The proof is in the pudding. I think Ross has signed well and has a good squad at his disposal. However thus far his style has been pragmatic/dull/effective/rigid, call it what you want. My worry is that’s his preferred style rather than a means to an end. We’ll see in time if his style starts to change with the likes of Irvine & Cadden, but speaking only for myself, despite where we are in the league I’ve not overly enjoyed this season. Nor one that is likely to live long in the memory.

[B.H.F.C]

Unless you're a dafty, you'll know that semi-finals are a difficult hurdle to overcome, in all sports. Demanding that those games are won is just plain stupid.

The hard of thinking always blame the manager for the defeats, and find excuses as to why the players performed below par, or made errors bordering on amateur players.

The latest nonsense that's crept in is that when we win, we were playing against a crap team.

There used to be a good vibe on this forum, a while ago. Now its infested with people who simply want to find fault with anything and everything. Attention seeking at its best. It's hard to believe that those same people would behave like that in the real world. If they did, they'd most likely be ignored and have no one to interact with, and then be forced to speak in the virtual world..............

I don’t think it makes anyone a dafty or hard of thinking for believing we should have been winning one of the semi finals we’re in. Even if it’s not easy.

I agree with you about the forum but it’s a two way thing. You have one side who want to find fault and the other side who want to tell them how clueless they are and refuse to see any fault at all. At full time yesterday, rather than be happy Hibs have won and talking about the game you’ve got some folk more interested in getting it up those on the other side of the debate. Not sure how those folk would get on in the real world either.

[Allez Hibs]

If Nisbet is really away then what do people think about Jack Ross's planning of the squad given the striker position debacle or therefore lack of strikers?

If Hibs could some how go on a proper sustained run then who knows where they could finish in the table. That has to be the mindset.

[Jones28]

If Nisbet is really away then what do people think about Jack Ross's planning of the squad given the striker position debacle or therefore lack of strikers?

If Hibs could some how go on a proper sustained run then who knows where they could finish in the table. That has to be the mindset.

We won’t let Nisbet go without having options lined up. And no, Cummings was not the answer.

[Smartie]

It’s hard to argue that his results haven’t been good, or at least above average.

Watching the games though it’s hard to be convinced by us. Our wins don’t tend to leave us all that satisfied and the performances when we’ve lost have sometimes been very poor.

I don’t want Ross to be sacked and agree that it’s a daft idea given where we are right now. I can’t pretend to be loving the football though, I don’t really see what he’s trying to build and it all feels a bit “meh”.

Having said all of that - we’re right in the running for 3rd place. A solid European qualification would give him a tangible achievement that we could all credit him for and hopefully get behind.

[calumhibee1]

After the winter break in the season mentioned, we kept 5 clean sheets in 17 league & SC matches. If (very simplistically I admit) you replace the strike force for one that is misfiring and/or not getting decent service, those good results quickly become bottom 6 form.

That's where a manager, worried about his own job as much as anything else, might start to change things in an effort to grind our results & pick up points rather than play beautiful football.

Who knows, maybe with the signings of Cadden & Irvine we've turned a wee corner that will see Doidge & Nisbet back to their best and less pressure on the defence (therefore less brain farts) because we're keeping the ball better.

As JR often says, it comes down to very fine margins.

Surely that goes for any style of football? If you replace players playing well with players playing ***** then you’re going to struggle. That’s not a problem exclusive to teams that play good football.

If you play long ball football and you replace your 6ft2 target man with a leap like a salmon with a 6ft2 target man who you can’t fit a piece of paper under when he jumps then suddenly your hoofball can’t get results either.

[Peevemor]

Surely that goes for any style of football? If you replace players playing well with players playing ***** then you’re going to struggle. That’s not a problem exclusive to teams that play good football.

If you play long ball football and you replace your 6ft2 target man with a leap like a salmon with a 6ft2 target man who you can’t fit a piece of paper under when he jumps then suddenly your hoofball can’t get results either.But with hoofball you generally have less players committed to going forward so your defence should be stuffier, meaning you will pick up more scrappy points.

[weecounty hibby]

I know you’re not asking me, but in terms of “getting the club” I’d say that would be playing a style of football that fits with our tradition of playing exciting, attacking football and playing a style of football that pleases the fans.

I wouldn’t use the term doesn’t get the club myself, but I can see what the poster means with it. From watching us since Ross came in, style seems to be fairly low down the list of priorities. Traditionally at Hibs, that’s not the case.

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;6445764]I know you’re not asking me, but in terms of “getting the club” I’d say that would be playing a style of football that fits with our tradition of playing exciting, attacking football and playing a style of football that pleases the fans.

I have been watching Hibs since 1973 and I would suggest that we have had for probably 50% of the time, maybe even more, teams that have been dreadful to watch with brief spells of excitement breaking out. Bertie Auld followed by Stanton and Blackley were terrible times. Alex Miller had about two and a half seasons out of ten where it was ok. Williamson! Calderwood! So in fact maybe I don't get our club as for long spells I haven't seen this exciting, attacking football you describe and in most of those seasons we have been a lot lower in the league than Jack Ross has us at the moment.

[calumhibee1]

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;6445764]I know you’re not asking me, but in terms of “getting the club” I’d say that would be playing a style of football that fits with our tradition of playing exciting, attacking football and playing a style of football that pleases the fans.

I have been watching Hibs since 1973 and I would suggest that we have had for probably 50% of the time, maybe even more, teams that have been dreadful to watch with brief spells of excitement breaking out. Bertie Auld followed by Stanton and Blackley were terrible times. Alex Miller had about two and a half seasons out of ten where it was ok. Williamson! Calderwood! So in fact maybe I don't get our club as for long spells I haven't seen this exciting, attacking football you describe and in most of those seasons we have been a lot lower in the league than Jack Ross has us at the moment.

So you’d argue that Hibs actually have a tradition of playing dreadful football then?

[calumhibee1]

But with hoofball you generally have less players committed to going forward so your defence should be stuffier, meaning you will pick up more scrappy points.

And you’ll pick up full points on less occasions presumably if you’re committing less players forward to try and win games?

I’ve got to say you see a lot more evidence of teams playing good football and doing well over the course of a season than teams playing bad football and doing well and vice versa imo.

[superfurryhibby]

‘what he has delivered in his time here’ is what you’re asking about.

Since he started last November, in the league His record is P 56 W28-D12-L16, a 50% win ratio. By our standards that’s very good historically except for when we’ve been out of the top tier.

He also inherited a terrible situation from Heckinbotham.

We’re still well on track for 4th and European qualification, something we’ve never bettered in 16 years of trying. Even in the last couple of months, when the pressure from some sections of the support has been ramped up, are the results really that bad?

December big wins against Hamilton and Motherwell at home, combined 7-0, beat Alloa in quarters, beat St Mirren, narrow 1-0 defeat to the hun, concede last minute equaliser to draw 1-1 Dundee Utd and lose against Ross County.

January starts with a bad home defeat vs Livvy, who are in good form, then we take a point at Celtic, beat Kilmarnock,lose the semi 3-0 vs St Johnstone, lose 1-0 to the hun again in the Morelos stamp game and beat Dundee Utd. 6 wins 2 draws 5 defeats in December and January, three of those 13 games against the old firm too. It’s not like we’re on some sort of historic slide of terrible results :dunno:

So to summarise, you can’t argue with the league form. It’s very good and it has on course for Europe.
Cup form? We’ve lost two semi finals. Never nice to take, but he did get us there in the first place.
style of play? Most folk agree it’s not been great. Not at Mowbray level.

There really isn’t anything there that justifies sacking your manager. It’s just a fairly dull, but solidly above average 7/10 performance. It genuinely baffles me that some folk think sack talk is justified.

Very well put together for a realistic assessment of Ross’s time at Hibs.

My basic workings out would point to Hibs accruing c 60 points this season, based on his results since he came to Hibs. Given that the side he inherited were struggling, It’s a pretty decent improvement.

I think the semi finals defeat and capitulations v Ross County and Livi really dismayed a lot of folk. I’ve supported Ross pretty consistently, but I was really gutted after last week and was reacting to the result ( but not suggesting he gets sacked), with a fair bit of disappointment and cynicism around what Ross is doing.

We micro-analyse football and often deliver our pithy observations with the benefit of hindsight. I don’t really know how Hibs will finish the season, I can only guess. We are inconsistent. However, I think we also have a group of talented players ( particularly if Allan finds form) and if the manager gets tactics and strategy right, I wouldn’t think it ridiculous to hope for a blazing end to the season.

[Peevemor]

And you’ll pick up full points on less occasions presumably if you’re committing less players forward to try and win games?

I’ve got to say you see a lot more evidence of teams playing good football and doing well over the course of a season than teams playing bad football and doing well and vice versa imo.I wouldn't necessarily disagree.

The point I was trying to make about the signing of Cadden & Irvine, is that without changing much in terms of shape/tactics, it could make us a much better team to watch - on a more regular basis in any case.

[calumhibee1]

I wouldn't necessarily disagree.

The point I was trying to make about the signing of Cadden & Irvine, is that without changing much in terms of shape/tactics, it could make us a much better team to watch - on a more regular basis in any case.

I’d agree with that :aok:

My initial post was in reply to Since452s post which seemed to rather generically suggest that good football is out and that it doesn’t get results anymore. Something which I couldn’t disagree with more and is one of the main reasons I’d like to see our style of play turned around.

[WhileTheChief..]

just a fairly dull, but solidly above average 7/10 performance.

Whilst you post is certainly positive, I’m not sure I would use this as a marketing slogan for ST sales!

[weecounty hibby]

[QUOTE=weecounty hibby;6446194]

So you’d argue that Hibs actually have a tradition of playing dreadful football then?
No, I'd argue that the misconception that we have "traditionally" played attacking, exciting football is a false one. It's just not true in my experience. It's What we all want to see and we obviously think about the times where we play like that but to suggest it's our tradition is rubbish, particularly in the last 40 years

[hibbysam]

I’d agree with that :aok:

My initial post was in reply to Since452s post which seemed to rather generically suggest that good football is out and that it doesn’t get results anymore. Something which I couldn’t disagree with more and is one of the main reasons I’d like to see our style of play turned around.

You also mention top teams around Britain who have the most money and the best players though. While we have a larger budget than a lot of sides, it’s not substantially more where the players are so much better. We can afford slightly better players than most but unless you can battle in Scotland then you’ll struggle.

You mention Rangers, they can battle and dig as well as any, a bit emphasis on their play has been going far more direct this season (look at the red card in the recent old firm game). Our game is so high paced that you need to battle and scrap for everything, in amongst that I’d say our quality has won us the majority of our points.

[G B Young]

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;6446269]
No, I'd argue that the misconception that we have "traditionally" played attacking, exciting football is a false one. It's just not true in my experience. It's What we all want to see and we obviously think about the times where we play like that but to suggest it's our tradition is rubbish, particularly in the last 40 years

I'd argue that the reason we aspire to an attacking style of football is because it was embedded as a Hibs tradition for many years. You just need to look at the remarkable number of goals the Famous Five or the Tornadoes scored, while if you see some of the scorelines the teams of the 60s racked up they often appear to have adopted an approach of 'as long as we score more than the opposition it doesn't matter how many we concede'. Granted, there wasn't much attacking flair about Hibs in the immediate post-Turnbull era (Bertie Auld's teams were miserly at both ends of the pitch) and we fell away badly as one of traditionally 'big' Scottish clubs at that time. However, when we've had the right type of attack-minded players in our side (even under the reputedly defensive Alex Miller we had our fair share), I still think we've attempted to maintain that tradition. Problem is you can only play consistently attacking (and successful) football if your team (and manager) is good enough - and let's face it there have been some murderous Hibs teams and managers filling the gaps before and between the bright spells under the likes of McLeish and Mowbray.

[weecounty hibby]

[QUOTE=weecounty hibby;6446520]

I'd argue that the reason we aspire to an attacking style of football is because it was embedded as a Hibs tradition for many years. You just need to look at the remarkable number of goals the Famous Five or the Tornadoes scored, while if you see some of the scorelines the teams of the 60s racked up they often appear to have adopted an approach of 'as long as we score more than the opposition it doesn't matter how many we concede'. Granted, there wasn't much attacking flair about Hibs in the immediate post-Turnbull era (Bertie Auld's teams were miserly at both ends of the pitch) and we fell away badly as one of traditionally 'big' Scottish clubs at that time. However, when we've had the right type of attack-minded players in our side (even under the reputedly defensive Alex Miller we had our fair share), I still think we've attempted to maintain that tradition. Problem is you can only play consistently attacking (and successful) football if your team (and manager) is good enough - and let's face it there have been some murderous Hibs teams and managers filling the gaps before and between the bright spells under the likes of McLeish and Mowbray.

And I kind of agree with that. But I am 52 and my overriding memories of Hibs over that time is that we have been a bit uninspiring save for a few seasons. My first game was 73 and don't really remember too much about games until probably 79/80. Throughout the 80s and 90s we were pretty poor mostly. 2000s onwards has been a tough watch at times too. For every McLiesh or Mowbray we've had a Williamson or Calderwood! You would have to be a fair old age to remember a sustained period of Hibs being the Cavaliers that we would have loved to see.
I do think that there is something special about Hibs as a club though. The history, the colours, the story of overcoming adversity to even be allowed to play etc. The fact that during the 50s we were trend setters with European tours and then competition, floodlights, invited to play the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal 3rd for testimonials has given us a certain reputation for flair and panache that has not been seen sadly for most of my times as a Hibby

[Highwayman]

I’m still 100% behind Jack Ross,but let’s see what happens when he goes head to head with Jim Goodwin on Tuesday night.I’ve followed with interest Goodwins progress in management through his time at Alloa and St Mirren and been highly impressed.Thought of him as a a candidate when Lennon and Heckingbotham left but thought it might be too early for him.Think he might now be moving out of Hibs radar and into Celtics !!?

[FilipinoHibs]

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;6446269]
No, I'd argue that the misconception that we have "traditionally" played attacking, exciting football is a false one. It's just not true in my experience. It's What we all want to see and we obviously think about the times where we play like that but to suggest it's our tradition is rubbish, particularly in the last 40 years

[Crunchie]

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;6446269]
No, I'd argue that the misconception that we have "traditionally" played attacking, exciting football is a false one. It's just not true in my experience. It's What we all want to see and we obviously think about the times where we play like that but to suggest it's our tradition is rubbish, particularly in the last 40 years

I couldn't agree more, I grew up watching the tornadoes through the 70s ( mainly tv highlights ) and started going regularly mid to late 70s. I would have given my right arm to have watched the "traditional" Hibs way of playing throughout the grim 80s.

[Iain G]

I’m still 100% behind Jack Ross,but let’s see what happens when he goes head to head with Jim Goodwin on Tuesday night.I’ve followed with interest Goodwins progress in management through his time at Alloa and St Mirren and been highly impressed.Thought of him as a a candidate when Lennon and Heckingbotham left but thought it might be too early for him.Think he might now be moving out of Hibs radar and into Celtics !!?

I thought he was braver in his team and decision making against Celtic than Jack Ross has been and that's the bit of extra belief I would like to see from him, we have good attacking players so let's be more positive in how we set ourselves up.

[Jones28]

[QUOTE=weecounty hibby;6446520]

I couldn't agree more, I grew up watching the tornadoes through the 70s ( mainly tv highlights ) and started going regularly mid to late 70s. I would have given my right arm to have watched the "traditional" Hibs way of playing throughout the grim 80s.

I'm very envious you got to see such a brilliant Hibs side. But our "traditional" way of playing is very very inconsistent. I think this is the first time in my Hibs watching life we have played to win rather than played football at all costs which has often meant good football but has sometimes meant a more pragmatic approach to games.

[Since452]

My "traditional" Hibs way of playing is watching 0-0 draws and 22 games without a derby win under Alex Miller. Apart from a couple of years under McLeish/Mowbray and six months under Lennon it's been largely dug*****. Maybe explains why I'm firmly in the Ross stay camp.

[Sioux]

The bottom line is if you have good players in the key attacking areas (in the context of the league you play in), that are better than your opposition, better and more skilful football will break out. Everyone is looking for that type of player, so they are not easy to find. They can't be picked from the shelf.

Take Scott Alan as an example, his passing range can be the difference, but if he is off form or not playing, that vital cog is missing. Then it looks like the team might not be capable of 'attractive' football. We can't have 11 SAs on the park.

2 or 3 players of that calibre can totally transform an otherwise fairly competent team that plays the percentages and turn them into what looks like a football playing team. As I said earlier, they are hard to get your hands on, and cost money, whether in transfer fees or the wage level they command. A manager can only play with the cards he has been dealt, and his stack of chips on the table. Trying to find that illusive player on a limited budget will be a bit of a hit or miss.

So I suppose if we had a bit of extra cash, we could get 2 or 3 players that are better than the majority of the rest. That might just be the difference. But in football there are no guarantees. Mature posters will remember Joe Harper as an example. Turnbull got the blame for that, rightly or wrongly.

[Since452]

I’m still 100% behind Jack Ross,but let’s see what happens when he goes head to head with Jim Goodwin on Tuesday night.I’ve followed with interest Goodwins progress in management through his time at Alloa and St Mirren and been highly impressed.Thought of him as a a candidate when Lennon and Heckingbotham left but thought it might be too early for him.Think he might now be moving out of Hibs radar and into Celtics !!?

I've been impressed with Goodwin too. Like the cut of his jib. We've a decent record against them but they always give us a good game. Their confidence will be high too which might suit us.

[Allez Hibs]

Is anyone else concerned with the lack of activity this window in forward areas? Closest we will be to realistically go for 2nd and Hibs are doing as good as nothing about it.

Nisbet situation is now a shambles and he's potentially burnt his bridges. We have now loaned out Gullan to boot.

[Stuart93]

Is anyone else concerned with the lack of activity this window in forward areas? Closest we will be to realistically go for 2nd and Hibs are doing as good as nothing about it.

We won’t be anywhere near 2nd by the end of the season imo regardless of who we signed

[Allez Hibs]

We won’t be anywhere near 2nd by the end of the season imo regardless of who we signed

Agreed, but why not at least have a go?

[bigwheel]

Is anyone else concerned with the lack of activity this window in forward areas? Closest we will be to realistically go for 2nd and Hibs are doing as good as nothing about it.

Nisbet situation is now a shambles and he's potentially burnt his bridges. We have now loaned out Gullan to boot.

I’m concerned that if we go on a run of wins, you might run out of reasons to keep this thread active .......


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[bingo70]

Is anyone else concerned with the lack of activity this window in forward areas? Closest we will be to realistically go for 2nd and Hibs are doing as good as nothing about it.

Nisbet situation is now a shambles and he's potentially burnt his bridges. We have now loaned out Gullan to boot.

Yes, we’ve nowhere near enough depth up front or options to come off the bench.

If we get third with this squad Ross deserves huge credit, I can’t see it though.

[Allez Hibs]

I’m concerned that if we go on a run of wins, you might run out of reasons to keep this thread active .......


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A question...

Would fans be singing "Jack Ross' Green and White Army" if there were fans at games just now?

[bigwheel]

A question...

Would fans be singing "Jack Ross' Green and White Army" if there were fans at games just now?

Iirc You’ve been trolling against Ross since he signed on, so I don’t take your points on him seriously......you’ve got an agenda...it’s boring...


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[HoboHarry]

Is anyone else concerned with the lack of activity this window in forward areas? Closest we will be to realistically go for 2nd and Hibs are doing as good as nothing about it.

Nisbet situation is now a shambles and he's potentially burnt his bridges. We have now loaned out Gullan to boot.
Aye errrr, awright then lol.....

[superfurryhibby]

Agreed, but why not at least have a go?

I think we will be giving it a go, going with the strengthened squad we have with our fantastic January signings and the return of Scott Allan.

We have 12 League games left, I’ll be hoping we have a strong finish to the season with the quality we have.

[Stuart93]

A question...

Would fans be singing "Jack Ross' Green and White Army" if there were fans at games just now?

Hahaha eh?

Aye they probably would be.

Are you alright?

[Allez Hibs]

Hahaha eh?

Aye they probably would be.

Are you alright?

All good, was hoping for a signing or two to have some depth in forward areas.

[Stuart93]

All good, was hoping for a signing or two to have some depth in forward areas.

What does that have to do with your question regarding the fans signing jack Ross’ green & white army if we were able to attend?

[Allez Hibs]

What does that have to do with your question regarding the fans signing jack Ross’ green & white army if we were able to attend?

My point was, I have my doubts they would be.

[matty_f]

My point was, I have my doubts they would be.

Folk sang it for Terry Butcher and he relegated us, i think we’d manage a rendition for 4th place Jack Ross.

[bigwheel]

Folk sang it for Terry Butcher and he relegated us, i think we’d manage a rendition for 4th place Jack Ross.

I honestly think the poster is just trying to keep this thread active.....


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[Peevemor]

I honestly think the poster is just trying to keep this thread active.....


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkNot at all because that would be boring, and I've read on here loads of times recently that it's the happy clappers (that are obviously being paid by the club) that are boring.

[Jones28]

My point was, I have my doubts they would be.

Why even bring this up? It’s such an “if my aunt had baws” argument.

[CentreLine]

Why even bring this up? It’s such an “if my aunt had baws” argument.

Ahah but nowadays, if your aunt has baws she can still be your auntie

[HoboHarry]

Ahah but nowadays, if your aunt has baws she can still be your auntie

Indeed. There's a few of the Izzard family have an Auntie Eddie judging by today's news story.....

[Hibs07p]

Ahah but nowadays, if your aunt has baws she can still be your auntie

LOL moment there. 😂😂😂

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016.

[blackpoolhibs]

Ahah but nowadays, if your aunt has baws she can still be your auntie
:greengrin laughed out loud there, am i allowed to these days? :wink:

[Jim44]

I think this thread has served its purpose. The outcome is clear that the majority of folk here want Ross as our manager. The OP has misjudged opinion and might be disappointed but that’s life. I don’t think it’s healthy for a SUPPORTERS forum to have an open, ongoing debate on the status of their manager. I don’t think he should be hounded out of the club by a minority.

[Crunchie]

I think this thread has served its purpose. The outcome is clear that the majority of folk here want Ross as our manager. The OP has misjudged opinion and might be disappointed but that’s life. I don’t think it’s healthy for a SUPPORTERS forum to have an open, ongoing debate on the status of their manager. I don’t think he should be hounded out of the club by a minority.

Not forgetting it's just a minority on here, a couple of hundred at that. I agree, close the thread.

[The 90+2]

Not forgetting it's just a minority on here, a couple of hundred at that. I agree, close the thread.

The thread should be kept open, it can be added to over time good or bad surely? I’m fully behind Jack Ross but it’s always interested to see when a manager leaves who had what opinion and what time etc.

[Phil MaGlass]

This place will go into utter meltdown if St.Mirren beat us tonite:agree:.

Keep thread open, wether its thousands or just a couple of hundred, everyone has a right to have their say.

[blackpoolhibs]

This place will go into utter meltdown if St.Mirren beat us tonite:agree:.

Keep thread open, wether its thousands or just a couple of hundred, everyone has a right to have their say.

Can see it now, we will finish 6th, the buddies will overtake us too. :faf:

[The 90+2]

Can see it now, we will finish 6th, the buddies will overtake us too. :faf:

It would be funny if the predictions of Livi finishing ahead of us after they scudded us looks like a realistic outlook now.

[blackpoolhibs]

It would be funny if the predictions of Livi finishing ahead of us after they scudded us looks like a realistic outlook now.

No it doesn't.

[Jim44]

This place will go into utter meltdown if St.Mirren beat us tonite:agree:.

Keep thread open, wether its thousands or just a couple of hundred, everyone has a right to have their say.

OK but to keep things even, instead of the banner screaming ‘Ross Out’ maybe I or somebody should start a poll with the title ‘Ross to Stay’. :greengrin It’s the spin you put on it. Even I’m not that pedantic tho’.

[Jones28]

OK but to keep things even, instead of the banner screaming ‘Ross Out’ maybe I or somebody should start a poll with the title ‘Ross to Stay’. :greengrin It’s the spin you put on it. Even I’m not that pedantic tho’.

What about the "Big Bumper Ross in/out shake-it-all-about thread"?

[Callum_62]

Can see it now, we will finish 6th, the buddies will overtake us too. :faf:It's funny how perception can be St Mirren have came from nowhere for me but they have only gathered 1 more point than us over last 6 matches

And we are in total free fall, apparently

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[Jones28]

Ahah but nowadays, if your aunt has baws she can still be your auntie
:thumbsup:

Very good point, please forgive my ignorance.

If your auntie has baws does she still drink too much and do karaoke at family parties?

[FilipinoHibs]

Change the title to "Hibs fans want Ross to stay, bedwetters want him out".

[Jones28]

Change the title to "Hibs fans want Ross to stay, bedwetters want him out".

That'll be popular with the Jordan Ross-outers.

[The Leith Dutch]

It would be funny if the predictions of Livi finishing ahead of us after they scudded us looks like a realistic outlook now.

I honestly think there are a lot on here who would rather be proved right about predicting bad things for Hibs and them happening than proved wrong about their predictions due to Hibs succeeding.

Excluding Big Sam style transfer dodgyness and assuming the manager is capable of keeping his dick in his pants there are only two reasons for sacking a manager:
- The current manager is performing unacceptably
- You believe you have identified a manager who you're reasonably sure will do better and who's prepared to accept

Ross has lost some sore games in the cup and recent league results haven't been great but we're currently in 4th which, putting the kool aid aside, would be a good achievement. Aberdeen for all their dull football and negative tactics are a settled outfit with a settled manager that have fairly consistently been the 3rd best team in Scotland after the OF. If we finished 3rd ahead of them - still perfectly possible given they have two more games against Celtic before the split - it would be a great achievement.

Since Turnbull's Tornados we have been relegated the same amount of times as we've finished 3rd.
Should we be targeting 3rd every season? Absolutely.
Should we assume that we get that automatically by thinking we're the big team? Well that would be daft.

We need stability to get there.

Which gets us to point 2 - the only reason I can see for changing Ross now is that we're pretty sure we've got a better option that will come in (and ideally one we think will give us 3+ years rather than looking to move on after having a good season).

I see a bunch of people you could take a punt on but it'd be just that - a punt.

The point here is that you don't have to commit to Ross being an amazing manager (he's not) and you don't have to give him a pass for losing games he should win (some very poor results). But to me the only path to genuine lasting improvement is stability - get a squad that doesn't need rebuilt every summer, keep the manager so he can build and avoid the succession of "He needs time to bed in", "Judge him when he's got his own players", "Players need time to gel" stuff.

I think Ross is a decent manager (not better, just decent) but I think in the current league he's a good bet to stay for a few seasons, develop a solid squad of players and can get us consistently hitting top 4. It might not be the most exciting ride but it's what we need right now.

[The 90+2]

I honestly think there are a lot on here who would rather be proved right about predicting bad things for Hibs and them happening than proved wrong about their predictions due to Hibs succeeding.

Excluding Big Sam style transfer dodgyness and assuming the manager is capable of keeping his dick in his pants there are only two reasons for sacking a manager:
- The current manager is performing unacceptably
- You believe you have identified a manager who you're reasonably sure will do better and who's prepared to accept

Ross has lost some sore games in the cup and recent league results haven't been great but we're currently in 4th which, putting the kool aid aside, would be a good achievement. Aberdeen for all their dull football and negative tactics are a settled outfit with a settled manager that have fairly consistently been the 3rd best team in Scotland after the OF. If we finished 3rd ahead of them - still perfectly possible given they have two more games against Celtic before the split - it would be a great achievement.

Since Turnbull's Tornados we have been relegated the same amount of times as we've finished 3rd.
Should we be targeting 3rd every season? Absolutely.
Should we assume that we get that automatically by thinking we're the big team? Well that would be daft.

We need stability to get there.

Which gets us to point 2 - the only reason I can see for changing Ross now is that we're pretty sure we've got a better option that will come in (and ideally one we think will give us 3+ years rather than looking to move on after having a good season).

I see a bunch of people you could take a punt on but it'd be just that - a punt.

The point here is that you don't have to commit to Ross being an amazing manager (he's not) and you don't have to give him a pass for losing games he should win (some very poor results). But to me the only path to genuine lasting improvement is stability - get a squad that doesn't need rebuilt every summer, keep the manager so he can build and avoid the succession of "He needs time to bed in", "Judge him when he's got his own players", "Players need time to gel" stuff.

I think Ross is a decent manager (not better, just decent) but I think in the current league he's a good bet to stay for a few seasons, develop a solid squad of players and can get us consistently hitting top 4. It might not be the most exciting ride but it's what we need right now.

I agree with absolutely all of that completely especially the parts on Ross except the top part. No hibs fan wants anything but the best for the club imo.

[The Leith Dutch]

I agree with absolutely all of that completely especially the parts on Ross except the top part. No hibs fan wants anything but the best for the club imo.

I agree no Hibs fans should but there are some on here who have me questioning it :)
Related: I also find it odd when people don't want a result that benefits Hibs if it means someone like Hearts winning.

[heretoday]

No need to panic. Things will recover.

[Jim44]

I agree no Hibs fans should but there are some on here who have me questioning it :)
Related: I also find it odd when people don't want a result that benefits Hibs if it means someone like Hearts winning.

......... which begs the question. - Aberdeen or Livingston to win their game tonight? Personally, especially if we beat St Mirren, I would prefer Aberdeen to win as it would put more water between us and Livingston, which appears to be the greater fear at the moment. Plus, it would still keep us in touch with Aberdeen.

[Callum_62]

......... which begs the question. - Aberdeen or Livingston to win their game tonight? Personally, especially if we beat St Mirren, I would prefer Aberdeen to win as it would put more water between us and Livingston, which appears to be the greater fear at the moment. Plus, it would still keep us in touch with Aberdeen.Draw and us to beat the dons on weekend

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[Stanton Spence]

......... which begs the question. - Aberdeen or Livingston to win their game tonight? Personally, especially if we beat St Mirren, I would prefer Aberdeen to win as it would put more water between us and Livingston, which appears to be the greater fear at the moment. Plus, it would still keep us in touch with Aberdeen.I thought about that earlier mate and just came to the conclusion that as long as we can get the 3 pts tonight then no matter what we will be going into 3rd or putting a wee bit distance between us and Livingston. A win tonight will be a big win and hopefully get us back on track

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[hibsbollah]

......... which begs the question. - Aberdeen or Livingston to win their game tonight? Personally, especially if we beat St Mirren, I would prefer Aberdeen to win as it would put more water between us and Livingston, which appears to be the greater fear at the moment. Plus, it would still keep us in touch with Aberdeen.

Id rather the draw or Livvy win. Yes Livvy are doing well but the calibre of player and budget suggests that Aberdeen will find their way at some point before the end of the season and Livvy wont keep this form for ever. Aberdeen is still our main threat.

[hibbysam]

......... which begs the question. - Aberdeen or Livingston to win their game tonight? Personally, especially if we beat St Mirren, I would prefer Aberdeen to win as it would put more water between us and Livingston, which appears to be the greater fear at the moment. Plus, it would still keep us in touch with Aberdeen.

If Aberdeen lost tonight it would be them worrying about Livi and not us, especially as they have two games against Celtic coming up. Would heap serious amounts of pressure on them for our game on Saturday.

[Brightside]

A draw for them and a win for us would be ideal.

[Alex Trager]

If Aberdeen lost tonight it would be them worrying about Livi and not us, especially as they have two games against Celtic coming up. Would heap serious amounts of pressure on them for our game on Saturday.

Haha celtic are almost a guaranteed three points to the opposition at the moment

[hibbysam]

Haha celtic are almost a guaranteed three points to the opposition at the moment

They’re still picking up more points than the majority, and we know Aberdeen like to **** the bed against them. I’d rather be playing the rest of the league than Celtic.

[Since452]

Wee blip over. Still on course for 3rd.

[calumhibee1]

Wee blip over. Still on course for 3rd.

Couple of good results that have put us in the driving seat for 3rd place. Win on Saturday and it’ll be a struggle for Aberdeen to overtake us I reckon.

[SHODAN]

This is *****, Neil Lennon would have got at least 7 points in the last two games.

[Unseen work]

13 wins
7 draws
7 defeats

In the league last season.

3rd the the league albeit Aberdeen have a game in hand which if they win they’ll go 1 point ahead of us - one way to stop that is by winning on Saturday.

Well done Jack Ross.

[Northernhibee]

13 wins
7 draws
7 defeats

In the league last season.

3rd the the league albeit Aberdeen have a game in hand which if they win they’ll go 1 point ahead of us - one way to stop that is by winning on Saturday.

Well done Jack Ross.

Objectively he's doing a very good job. Not as good as Stubbs in the cups but only one team get to boast not getting pumped out of the cup once the dust settles. The league is a far better guide to a team and a manager and it may not always be pretty but we're doing well to pick up decent points each month.

[theonlywayisup]

Whilst it really was disappointing losing the two semi finals, these things do happen at Hibernian FC far too often. Is that a sacking offence? I can understand how some will say yes.

However, IMO, it really would be bonkers to sack a manager who is on course to steer Hibernian FC to 3rd in the league, in really difficult circumstance. Having watched the Hibees since the Miller years, I ask how many times have we finished 3rd in the league. Not too many times, maybe two or three times.

For years, I've been saying "I'm sick of beating the Old Firm or Aberdeen, only to get beat by the so-called lesser teams". However, this season, apart from the home games against Ross County and Livingston, we have very good record against the non-Old Firm/Dons teams, especially away from home.

Jack Ross deserves to continue as Hibs manager. He is starting to build something special.

[ian cruise]

Ross in.

I genuinely think we've a great squad, a good manager and we're building towards something very, very good. We're high up in the league and reaching the latter stages of cup competitions. Not that long ago we were relegated.

Obviously there's still disappointing results. Yes we could be a bit more swashbuckling in our play but we're still getting players up to speed both in fitness and integrating new players.

I'm not sure we're giving enough leeway for the disruption the pandemic and restrictions will be playing on that too as team members can't do the social side of team building. I know personally while I'm still working it's far from normal, even when I was in the office up until Dec.

You wouldn't know it from here at times but I think we've a lot to be positive about this season. Up to Ross and the players to push on and finish strong.

[bingo70]

https://twitter.com/anthonyabrown/status/1356718315150974985?s=21

“Hibs with a good chance of a first 3rd-place finish since 2005 and of posting their best points tally in a 38-game, 3-points-for-a-win season. With no game against OF before the split, they're just a point worse off than Lennon's team at same stage of record-setting 17/18 season“

Feel a bit silly moaning about him now 😂

[Sergio sledge]

https://twitter.com/anthonyabrown/status/1356718315150974985?s=21

“Hibs with a good chance of a first 3rd-place finish since 2005 and of posting their best points tally in a 38-game, 3-points-for-a-win season. With no game against OF before the split, they're just a point worse off than Lennon's team at same stage of record-setting 17/18 season“

Feel a bit silly moaning about him now 😂

It's mental that we are so close to Lennon's team in terms of points considering how incredible that team seemed at the time. The style of play certainly has a massive impact on perceptions of the team.

We have by far the easiest run in to the split (based on our opponents' performances so far this season https://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=scotland&tid=10) but will be crucial not to lose the games to Aberdeen and Livingston IMHO.

[Since452]

https://twitter.com/anthonyabrown/status/1356718315150974985?s=21

“Hibs with a good chance of a first 3rd-place finish since 2005 and of posting their best points tally in a 38-game, 3-points-for-a-win season. With no game against OF before the split, they're just a point worse off than Lennon's team at same stage of record-setting 17/18 season“

Feel a bit silly moaning about him now 😂

Amazing stats considering we've had a wee bad spell

[allezsauzee]

I wonder how many other clubs there are in the world sitting third in the top division with a fans site that has a 40 odd page thread about whether the manager that took them there should be sacked.

[WhileTheChief..]

Probably about 38 or 39 pages saying no!

It’s a tiny minority who think he should be sacked.

[The Modfather]

It's mental that we are so close to Lennon's team in terms of points considering how incredible that team seemed at the time. The style of play certainly has a massive impact on perceptions of the team.

We have by far the easiest run in to the split (based on our opponents' performances so far this season https://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=scotland&tid=10) but will be crucial not to lose the games to Aberdeen and Livingston IMHO.

I do think that’s a key factor. We are basically like for like with the 17/18 season and might even better it points and/or position wise. Yet I’ll still have fond memories of the 17/18 season but currently feel a bit detached and meh about this season despite our very good current position because for most of the season I’ve not enjoyed it and a lot of games have felt like a chore win, loss or draw IMO.

[1van Sprou7e]

I do think that’s a key factor. We are basically like for like with the 17/18 season and might even better it points and/or position wise. Yet I’ll still have fond memories of the 17/18 season but currently feel a bit detached and meh about this season despite our very good current position because for most of the season I’ve not enjoyed it and a lot of games have felt like a chore win, loss or draw IMO.

Also probably beause it was the second half of that season when we were really phenomenal. In the first half we were good but if we had Allan-Kamberi-Maclaren all season we could easily have been 2nd

[Hibbyradge]

I do think that’s a key factor. We are basically like for like with the 17/18 season and might even better it points and/or position wise. Yet I’ll still have fond memories of the 17/18 season but currently feel a bit detached and meh about this season despite our very good current position because for most of the season I’ve not enjoyed it and a lot of games have felt like a chore win, loss or draw IMO.

I think we'd all feel differently if we'd been at the games and experienced the noise, passion, tension and joy together.

I also wonder if we'd watched Lennon's team solely in TV, we maybe feel a bit different about it.

I don't know. Just a theory.

[The 90+2]

Exactly why the thread should be kept open. :wink:

Start winning big games Jack, they will come though. Boy will be hear for years. He and the team learning.

[The Modfather]

I think we'd all feel differently if we'd been at the games and experienced the noise, passion, tension and joy together.

I also wonder if we'd watched Lennon's team solely in TV, we maybe feel a bit different about it.

I don't know. Just a theory.

Think there’s definitely an element of not watching it live at play, but certainly not the only element. The styles are very different between the two seasons. I find myself dipping in and out of games when in the house, at times it would feel like a long 90 minutes if there in person IMO win, lose or draw.

[Since452]

Worth mentioning that this isn't a Hibs with a promotion bounce coming off a recent Scottish cup win with arguably the best midfield in Scotland. It's a Hibs that's a bit of a work in progress after the Heckingbottom experiment failed. Ross has done an excellent job.

[Stuart93]

It's mental that we are so close to Lennon's team in terms of points considering how incredible that team seemed at the time. The style of play certainly has a massive impact on perceptions of the team.

We have by far the easiest run in to the split (based on our opponents' performances so far this season https://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=scotland&tid=10) but will be crucial not to lose the games to Aberdeen and Livingston IMHO.

Think it’s worth noting that the quality of the league that season easily out does the quality this season imo. Lennon picked up more points in a harder league.

I’m still quite shocked by the stat nonetheless, it’ll be an interesting end to the season.

[jacomo]

I’m enjoying this new manager bounce.

[Magpie]

Worth mentioning that this isn't a Hibs with a promotion bounce coming off a recent Scottish cup win with arguably the best midfield in Scotland. It's a Hibs that's a bit of a work in progress after the Heckingbottom experiment failed. Ross has done an excellent job.

Pandemic has also had an affect on clubs this season, we are lucky to be in a financial position where we can afford to perhaps strengthen more than those who finished above us last season. Still good going in the league regardless. Missed opportunity in the cups.

[Jones28]

Tonight was a test and it was passed. Now we’re in a good place going in to the game on Saturday, a win and it’s a really **** run of form booted in to touch and well established third place favourites.

[The 90+2]

Think it’s worth noting that the quality of the league that season easily out does the quality this season imo. Lennon picked up more points in a harder league.

I’m still quite shocked by the stat nonetheless, it’ll be an interesting end to the season.


What are you basing that on? Celtic where pissing the league. Did we have two clubs in the Europa League? Same teams up the top 4? I don't see the evidence the league was stronger then.

[Stevie Reid]

https://twitter.com/anthonyabrown/status/1356718315150974985?s=21

“Hibs with a good chance of a first 3rd-place finish since 2005 and of posting their best points tally in a 38-game, 3-points-for-a-win season. With no game against OF before the split, they're just a point worse off than Lennon's team at same stage of record-setting 17/18 season“

Feel a bit silly moaning about him now 😂

Shows how much draws can kill you, they did in that season under Lennon. We only lost seven games in 2017/18, only Celtic lost less - but drew 13. We dominated the majority of games in that season and too often couldn’t kill teams off.

We’ve already lost as many games as that season, but have also only drawn seven so far. No question that the football was far superior in 2017/18 but I really couldn’t care less right now.

Been a strange season, with no outstanding football side in the country, bar Rangers. We’ve invested in quality in the right areas and it’s seen us right so far.

[NAE NOOKIE]

A good result tonight, but the big question over Jack Ross is his inability to win big games. This Saturday is huge, after it Aberdeen have to play Celtic twice before the end of the month, so if we can win we actually put ourselves in a position to open up a gap on them. This is a game we simply have to win if we are serious about 3rd place, lose it and that will be 3 losses in a row to Aberdeen two of them at home, which is hardly a statement of intent for a club with an ambition to be consistently best of the rest.

[bigwheel]

A good result tonight, but the big question over Jack Ross is his inability to win big games. This Saturday is huge, after it Aberdeen have to play Celtic twice before the end of the month, so if we can win we actually put ourselves in a position to open up a gap on them. This is a game we simply have to win if we are serious about 3rd place, lose it and that will be 3 losses in a row to Aberdeen two of them at home, which is hardly a statement of intent for a club with an ambition to be consistently best of the rest.

Is it any bigger than Dundee Utd...When we went up there, we had just been humped out of the cup and beaten by Rangers. Ross Out was a dominant topic on this board. Or Last night where we travelled to an in form Saints team with Livi breathing down our neck?

Each of these games we only get the same 3 points. Yes, Saturday is another important game. But it only becomes vital because of our win last night.


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[Wakeyhibee]

As a comparison to Neil Lennons haul of points at this stage we are:-

1pt fewer
1 goal scored fewer
4 goals conceded fewer

Defence even after that run of results has been the factor in my book as to our points haul but also the feeling of less
attractive football played.

At the same stage game 27 we also beat a better Aberdeen side 2-0 at ER. I hope this is an omen.

[Crunchie]

A good result tonight, but the big question over Jack Ross is his inability to win big games. This Saturday is huge, after it Aberdeen have to play Celtic twice before the end of the month, so if we can win we actually put ourselves in a position to open up a gap on them. This is a game we simply have to win if we are serious about 3rd place, lose it and that will be 3 losses in a row to Aberdeen two of them at home, which is hardly a statement of intent for a club with an ambition to be consistently best of the rest.

Failure to beat Aberdeen is hardly a lack of intent by the club now is it. I think you'll always dig out some weird stat to have a dig at him.

[Crunchie]

Ross in.

I genuinely think we've a great squad, a good manager and we're building towards something very, very good. We're high up in the league and reaching the latter stages of cup competitions. Not that long ago we were relegated.

Obviously there's still disappointing results. Yes we could be a bit more swashbuckling in our play but we're still getting players up to speed both in fitness and integrating new players.

I'm not sure we're giving enough leeway for the disruption the pandemic and restrictions will be playing on that too as team members can't do the social side of team building. I know personally while I'm still working it's far from normal, even when I was in the office up until Dec.

You wouldn't know it from here at times but I think we've a lot to be positive about this season. Up to Ross and the players to push on and finish strong.
:top marks Finishing high up the table and getting to the latter stages in the cup is exactly what'll be on his contract, he's delivering on that as you say in difficult circumstances. People have very short memories and for the life of me I can't understand why any Hibs fan would even contemplate wanting him sacked.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Can this thread not be deleted?

I can't imagine why anyone would spend time trying to get someone to lose their job.

I'm glad this place is not at all representative of real Hibs fans -it's just a few people who have far too much time on their hands. Again, it only makes me wonder if these people are as good at their jobs as Jack is.

[The Spaceman]

As a comparison to Neil Lennons haul of points at this stage we are:-

1pt fewer
1 goal scored fewer
4 goals conceded fewer

Defence even after that run of results has been the factor in my book as to our points haul but also the feeling of less
attractive football played.

At the same stage game 27 we also beat a better Aberdeen side 2-0 at ER. I hope this is an omen.

Excellent comparison. Jack Ross has not been blessed with having John McGinn and Dylan McGeouch running our midfield plus has the same defence but all a lot older. He’s doing a stellar job and anyone who thinks otherwise or wants him out doesn’t really have a single clue about football.

[Ozyhibby]

As a comparison to Neil Lennons haul of points at this stage we are:-

1pt fewer
1 goal scored fewer
4 goals conceded fewer

Defence even after that run of results has been the factor in my book as to our points haul but also the feeling of less
attractive football played.

At the same stage game 27 we also beat a better Aberdeen side 2-0 at ER. I hope this is an omen.

I don’t care what the football looks like so long as we win. Last couple of performances we have stopped teams playing in midfield. I much prefer to watch that than allowing opponents to dominate us there like was happening before Gogic and Irvine were put in together. If Newall comes back in, it has to be instead of Murphy or Boyle. We can’t go back to losing the midfield battle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Waxy]

Can this thread not be deleted?

I can't imagine why anyone would spend time trying to get someone to lose their job.

I'm glad this place is not at all representative of real Hibs fans -it's just a few people who have far too much time on their hands. Again, it only makes me wonder if these people are as good at their jobs as Jack is.
I agree the thread should go.

[Alfred E Newman]

Can this thread not be deleted?

I can't imagine why anyone would spend time trying to get someone to lose their job.

I'm glad this place is not at all representative of real Hibs fans -it's just a few people who have far too much time on their hands. Again, it only makes me wonder if these people are as good at their jobs as Jack is.

Agree. Time this was locked.

[Robbo6-2]

I agree the thread should go.

I agree, I have also wanted Ross out but its clear he is going to get to the summer at least.

All this thread does is if Hibs win the people that want him to stay over praise him. I seen someone describing a win vs St Mirren as "Brilliant". My expectations is to beat teams like that most weeks, to describe that performance as Brilliant vs a 10 men Saints, needs their head looked at.

On the flip side if we lose the ones who want rid of him, go over the top with criticism (me included).

Maybe time to accept it's not brilliant nor is it a disaster and we still have alot to play for.

[tonyrougier123]

This thread needs closed totally agree!

[Bangkok Hibby]

No thread on any forum should be deleted because some, even the majority dont like it. Abuse yes, opinion no. Grow some balls FFS. I dont want him sacked but this thread doesn't have me squealing for it to be shut down.
If nothing else it will be interesting to see how this thread evolves towards season end.

[Peevemor]

I agree, I have also wanted Ross out but its clear he is going to get to the summer at least.

All this thread does is if Hibs win the people that want him to stay over praise him. I seen someone describing a win vs St Mirren as "Brilliant". My expectations is to beat teams like that most weeks, to describe that performance as Brilliant vs a 10 men Saints, needs their head looked at.

On the flip side if we lose the ones who want rid of him, go over the top with criticism (me included).

Maybe time to accept it's not brilliant nor is it a disaster and we still have alot to play for.

Indeed.

Above all this thread serves to show how daft knee jerk reactions can often be.

[PaulSmith]

I’ve done my usual 360 about turn and from wanting him out after the Hampden debacles it would be crazy when we are favs for 3rd.

[scoopyboy]

A good result tonight, but the big question over Jack Ross is his inability to win big games. This Saturday is huge, after it Aberdeen have to play Celtic twice before the end of the month, so if we can win we actually put ourselves in a position to open up a gap on them. This is a game we simply have to win if we are serious about 3rd place, lose it and that will be 3 losses in a row to Aberdeen two of them at home, which is hardly a statement of intent for a club with an ambition to be consistently best of the rest.

And if we don't beat Aberdeen it will all be down to Jack Ross and nothing to do with the players!!!!

[tonyrougier123]

We have to let a manager come in and get a few years at this club,we are receiving multi million pound offers for players,winning a lot of away games sitting third and comfortably in top four.admittedly some frustrating results that get folk annoyed,but the bigger picture suggests we are going the right way,signing the right players.playing the right formations.
The form at Easter road is not great but the state of the pitch is making football a lottery at home,that needs addressing as soon as it can be.

Jack has carried himself well as hibs manager,managed the squad well,and some of our early season form was sublime at times.
We still need players to come in and a few to move on but these things should happen in the right way to avoid squad disharmony.

Folk are treating this thread like we are in free fall and mans no got a clue,that’s just lunacy!

[Brightside]

I agree, I have also wanted Ross out but its clear he is going to get to the summer at least.

All this thread does is if Hibs win the people that want him to stay over praise him. I seen someone describing a win vs St Mirren as "Brilliant". My expectations is to beat teams like that most weeks, to describe that performance as Brilliant vs a 10 men Saints, needs their head looked at.

On the flip side if we lose the ones who want rid of him, go over the top with criticism (me included).

Maybe time to accept it's not brilliant nor is it a disaster and we still have alot to play for.

Unless he decides to leave he will be here a lot longer than summer. If we finish 3/4th then he has hit the high target set by the football club. He works for Ron. He doesn’t work for some of the fans.

[blackpoolhibs]

Excellent comparison. Jack Ross has not been blessed with having John McGinn and Dylan McGeouch running our midfield plus has the same defence but all a lot older. He’s doing a stellar job and anyone who thinks otherwise or wants him out doesn’t really have a single clue about football.
:top marks

[Ray_]

I agree, I have also wanted Ross out but its clear he is going to get to the summer at least.

All this thread does is if Hibs win the people that want him to stay over praise him. I seen someone describing a win vs St Mirren as "Brilliant". My expectations is to beat teams like that most weeks, to describe that performance as Brilliant vs a 10 men Saints, needs their head looked at.

On the flip side if we lose the ones who want rid of him, go over the top with criticism (me included).

Maybe time to accept it's not brilliant nor is it a disaster and we still have alot to play for.

I saw Hibs first in 1965 and there has been very few times, [if any], in that fifty odd year period that it was a given to win in Paisley.