Ross out

[calumhibee1]

I was pretty meh about his appointment and have pretty much felt that way throughout his time with us.

I know folk find the whole ‘I just can’t take to him’ thing a bit odd but I just can’t. I can’t even see what type of team he’s trying to build. We seem to be going for a decent quality of player but there just doesn’t seem to be any plan as to how we’re going put them together.

Yup. I’ve no idea what he’s trying to build, what our style of play is meant to be etc.

It seems to be a case of get as many versatile players in as possible and then we can change formations/line-ups all the time.

Under Stubbs and Lennon you could see a very clear plan of the team they were building, where everyone fits in and what our style of play was. Most of the time when we signed someone you knew why and you knew exactly where they were going to play. We’re a million miles from that now.

[H18S NX]

I was pretty meh about his appointment and have pretty much felt that way throughout his time with us.

I know folk find the whole ‘I just can’t take to him’ thing a bit odd but I just can’t. I can’t even see what type of team he’s trying to build. We seem to be going for a decent quality of player but there just doesn’t seem to be any plan as to how we’re going put them together....:agree:

[DH1875]

I'm not arsed but then I'm not arsed about a lot of things about Hibs these days, which is a worrying sign. Majority of the time I find watching us play boring but not sure how much of that is down to the football or down to me sitting in the house watching it alone with no banter or atmosphere or anything.
What I will say is that thought we were pretty good first half yesterday and were really unlucky to go in at half time one down. Had no fears at that point that we were still in the game. Them scoring the 2nd changed it and what what followed can only be described as a shambles. Roll on Wednesday, I'll still watch the game but can only hope we get back into Easter Rd soon as if we don't and this is what's still on offer I might not be back for a while.

*Don't mind me, win on Wednesday and I will probably be all happy and smiles again :greengrin.

[hibsbollah]

No, I referred to this last night.

For a growing number of fans, it won't now matter what Ross achieves at Hibs, short of a Scottish Cup win and perhaps splitting the Old Firm and consistent derby wins, his position's now untenable.

There's an inevitability about his position that reminds me of how I felt about Heckingbottom just before he left.

The poll on here isn’t a huge sample size, but there seems to be a narrow majority for keeping him on amongst .net posters.

That is also just after a sore defeat when feelings will be running high.

Also, if you want a change to things you’re likely to make more noise than if you want the status quo.

Id conclude he has the (grudging) support of the majority, and saying his position is untenable is too far. Only the board will know how much patience they have.

[vuefrom1875]

Its just a thought but if we get a result on Wednesday will the same people calling for Jack Ross's head be on here saying 'celtic better no steal our manager?'.

Highly unlikely that scenario will develop 🤨

[Allez Hibs]

The poll on here isn’t a huge sample size, but there seems to be a narrow majority for keeping him on amongst .net posters.


It's a narrow majority for him to be replaced factoring in all voting options.

[Sir David Gray]

A lot of folk won’t take to him because they feel his Hibs team simply aren’t enjoyable to watch at all.

To add to that, we rarely even get the thrill of a win in a big game under him.

In general, the best it gets is a slog of a win against Kilmarnock etc. That’s not good enough.

I think after last night, even beating Rangers on Wednesday will only provide him with short term relief. We would only be another bad defeat away from the knives being out again.

From my own point of view, I think he should remain for the rest of the season, if we finish any lower than 4th (which I currently wouldn't put past us) then he should go.

If results like last night continue by the time the fans return then the atmosphere's going to be quite poisonous.

[matty_f]

I think Ross’s decision yesterday to throw in players well short of match fitness (Cadden, Irvine, Allan, Magennis) ahead of players who have been doing it for him all season could cause massive issues for him with the team.

If you win, everyone accepts it - the players left out can’t complain.

But to lose, and lose in the manner we did, makes it very hard to justify.

Hallberg and Gogic both played well against Killie. We’ve got a striker on the bench so there’s no need to move Boyle up front to accommodate Cadden.

If you’re Hallberg, Mallan or Doidge you’re going to be annoyed at the selection.

For thirty-odd minutes, it looked like it was working but it didn’t take long for the cracks to show.

We looked like a team who didn’t know what we were doing, and the changes that Ross made didn’t change that. In fact, we got worse after the changes.

As great as it was to see Scott Allan back, surely there’s a question about whether or not it’s fair or right to use a cup semi final to give him his first taste of competitive football in months.

To pick the team under those circumstances (unless there are injuries/knocks we’re unaware of that forced his hand) and then compound that by slaughtering the players post match (however much we agree with him) won’t have given Ross much credit with the players.

It’s decisions like these that can see a manager lose the dressing room.

He’s dug himself a hole now as well, because he’s got to pick a team to dig in for him to try and beat Rangers so he’s either going back to the team that let him down yesterday or he’s turning to the guys he dropped for the new faces Not a great situation.

[calumhibee1]

It's a narrow majority for him to be replaced factoring in all voting options.

:agree:

Whilst I’d agree with hibsbollah that the folk wanting rid are likely to make more noise, he’s lost enough of the support that it’s a major issue for him and the club going forward. It’s going to take a huge change in what he’s served us up so far to turn it round - wins in big games and much more enjoyable football. I’m not sure he has it in him as these were his issues which seen him ultimately fail at Sunderland as well.

[h1bs4life]

The poll on here isn’t a huge sample size, but there seems to be a narrow majority for keeping him on amongst .net posters.

That is also just after a sore defeat when feelings will be running high.

Also, if you want a change to things you’re likely to make more noise than if you want the status quo.

Id conclude he has the (grudging) support of the majority, and saying his position is untenable is too far. Only the board will know how much patience they have.


Wouldn't say posters on here reflect the feelings of the whole support most likely to be younger supporters and a few older who post.
The true feeling will be how much revenue the club bring in / loose.
Not getting to both finals has cost the club a few quid in merchandise and the possibility of revenue in fans getting photos taking with cup when rules are relaxed.
Season ticket renewal could also be a disaster

[calumhibee1]

I think after last night, even beating Rangers on Wednesday will only provide him with short term relief. We would only be another bad defeat away from the knives being out again.

From my own point of view, I think he should remain for the rest of the season, if we finish any lower than 4th (which I currently wouldn't put past us) then he should go.

If results like last night continue by the time the fans return then the atmosphere's going to be quite poisonous.

Beating Rangers would be brilliant and he deserves credit if he manages it.

I just don’t even think we need to consider that tbh. His record at us and Sunderland would suggest there’s very little chance of that.

[Sir David Gray]

The poll on here isn’t a huge sample size, but there seems to be a narrow majority for keeping him on amongst .net posters.

That is also just after a sore defeat when feelings will be running high.

Also, if you want a change to things you’re likely to make more noise than if you want the status quo.

Id conclude he has the (grudging) support of the majority, and saying his position is untenable is too far. Only the board will know how much patience they have.

Fair enough, just calling it as I see it. I think there's an inevitably about his position now and we'll be looking for a new manager sooner rather than later.

A win on Wednesday would be welcome but it won't remove the feelings bubbling under the surface.

[Nicho87]

At what point will Gordon make the call on this?
End of the season?
Not at all?
I’m worried about more drey Wright type signings being allowed.

[hibbysam]

I think he deserves the chance to take us to the end of the season, ultimately has another cup competition and the chance to take us into Europe. It’s not outwith the realms of possibility that he provides us with group stage European football come next season, that would outdo any semi final defeats this season for me.

[flash]

:agree:

Whilst I’d agree with hibsbollah that the folk wanting rid are likely to make more noise, he’s lost enough of the support that it’s a major issue for him and the club going forward. It’s going to take a huge change in what he’s served us up so far to turn it round - wins in big games and much more enjoyable football. I’m not sure he has it in him as these were his issues which seen him ultimately fail at Sunderland as well.
I think you have summed it up perfectly Calum. The support are pretty much 50/50 if we assume the poll is a fair reflection.
That's pretty hard to come back from without doing something pretty special as it's easier to move from keep him to sack him than the reverse.
The very least we need to start off any sort of turnaround is a committed and positive performance on Wednesday.
Get that and you never know as we do have several players who look great on paper. Maybe once they are all match fit we can finish the season strongly.
Another two or three insipid displays however and I will personally drive him back to Sunderland.

[matty_f]

Fair enough, just calling it as I see it. I think there's an inevitably about his position now and we'll be looking for a new manager sooner rather than later.

A win on Wednesday would be welcome but it won't remove the feelings bubbling under the surface.
It definitely feels like the writing is on the wall for him now.

It’s a long way back for a manager from here. Not just with the fans but with the players as well. They will want to play in finals and, while they all have to look themselves in the mirror for their failings yesterday, they’ll also look at the manager and his team selection.

Players want to play good football and win games, if we’re putting in horror shows with the consistency that we’re finding now (in a bad way) then it doesn’t take long for the trust to go in the manager.

[flash]

At what point will Gordon make the call on this?
End of the season?
Not at all?
I’m worried about more drey Wright type signings being allowed.

Which other signings have you not liked and how did you feel about Wright when he first signed?

[bingo70]

I think Ross’s decision yesterday to throw in players well short of match fitness (Cadden, Irvine, Allan, Magennis) ahead of players who have been doing it for him all season could cause massive issues for him with the team.

If you win, everyone accepts it - the players left out can’t complain.

But to lose, and lose in the manner we did, makes it very hard to justify.

Hallberg and Gogic both played well against Killie. We’ve got a striker on the bench so there’s no need to move Boyle up front to accommodate Cadden.

If you’re Hallberg, Mallan or Doidge you’re going to be annoyed at the selection.

For thirty-odd minutes, it looked like it was working but it didn’t take long for the cracks to show.

We looked like a team who didn’t know what we were doing, and the changes that Ross made didn’t change that. In fact, we got worse after the changes.

As great as it was to see Scott Allan back, surely there’s a question about whether or not it’s fair or right to use a cup semi final to give him his first taste of competitive football in months.

To pick the team under those circumstances (unless there are injuries/knocks we’re unaware of that forced his hand) and then compound that by slaughtering the players post match (however much we agree with him) won’t have given Ross much credit with the players.

It’s decisions like these that can see a manager lose the dressing room.

He’s dug himself a hole now as well, because he’s got to pick a team to dig in for him to try and beat Rangers so he’s either going back to the team that let him down yesterday or he’s turning to the guys he dropped for the new faces Not a great situation.

Great post Matty.

I mentioned it on the PM board just now but when the manager starts slating the players publicly and essentially blaming them for the defeat it normally only goes one way.

I hadn’t thought about the impact the team selection would have on top of that.

[JimBHibees]

I think Ross’s decision yesterday to throw in players well short of match fitness (Cadden, Irvine, Allan, Magennis) ahead of players who have been doing it for him all season could cause massive issues for him with the team.

If you win, everyone accepts it - the players left out can’t complain.

But to lose, and lose in the manner we did, makes it very hard to justify.

Hallberg and Gogic both played well against Killie. We’ve got a striker on the bench so there’s no need to move Boyle up front to accommodate Cadden.

If you’re Hallberg, Mallan or Doidge you’re going to be annoyed at the selection.

For thirty-odd minutes, it looked like it was working but it didn’t take long for the cracks to show.

We looked like a team who didn’t know what we were doing, and the changes that Ross made didn’t change that. In fact, we got worse after the changes.

As great as it was to see Scott Allan back, surely there’s a question about whether or not it’s fair or right to use a cup semi final to give him his first taste of competitive football in months.

To pick the team under those circumstances (unless there are injuries/knocks we’re unaware of that forced his hand) and then compound that by slaughtering the players post match (however much we agree with him) won’t have given Ross much credit with the players.

It’s decisions like these that can see a manager lose the dressing room.

He’s dug himself a hole now as well, because he’s got to pick a team to dig in for him to try and beat Rangers so he’s either going back to the team that let him down yesterday or he’s turning to the guys he dropped for the new faces Not a great situation.

Pretty good summary I think. Bringing guys clearly not game fit straight in is likely to cause some concern. Thought a bit odd Hallberg playing no part at all after playing well last week. Would assume if not starting he would have expected to come on when Magennis and Allan came on. As you say will take some managing. Assume Gray and Mallan will be leaving on loan.

[BegbieHSC]

I’m no going to kick off about the Drey Wright signing at all. Signing him as a squad player on a free seemed like a great bit of business. It’s just not quite worked out, but I don’t expect he’s on a lot of money, so any suggestion that heads should roll for his signing is ridiculous.

[bingo70]

It definitely feels like the writing is on the wall for him now.

It’s a long way back for a manager from here. Not just with the fans but with the players as well. They will want to play in finals and, while they all have to look themselves in the mirror for their failings yesterday, they’ll also look at the manager and his team selection.

Players want to play good football and win games, if we’re putting in horror shows with the consistency that we’re finding now (in a bad way) then it doesn’t take long for the trust to go in the manager.

No player goes out onto the pitch not wanting to try hard or wanting to play *****.

Players under performing Is normally a result of various factors including how they’re motivated, how the team is set up, how fit they’re feeling and how confident they are.

They don’t just play ***** because they didn’t fancy it.

[Hibs90]

More I think about it the more I think he was appointed as a 'safe' option. Someone to offer some stability after the Lennon/Hecky shambles... I think he's taken us a far as he can and ultimately for us to progress up to that next level of winning games like last night we need someone better

[matty_f]

No player goes out onto the pitch not wanting to try hard or wanting to play *****.

Players under performing Is normally a result of various factors including how they’re motivated, how the team is set up, how fit they’re feeling and how confident they are.

They don’t just play ***** because they didn’t fancy it.

I agree to an extent but i don’t think you can say it never happens.

I think the players’ heads went yesterday, they all could have been mentally stronger in that game and while some of that of on how motivated the manager gets them, they need to own that themselves.

You can’t absolve them off blame to strengthen the case against the manager. There were multiple points of failure yesterday and the players played their part in it.

I do hold Ross accountable overall as, for me, his decisions and input were the biggest factor in the defeat.

[Nicho87]

Which other signings have you not liked and how did you feel about Wright when he first signed?

Magennis. Not enough time due to injury on-going
Macey looks ok for a goalkeeper.
Gogic. Does his job, but taking us to next level?
Murphy - injury prone. Flashes of quality but not enough.

Wright very much an underwhelming signing. Would rather we had tried to get Matt Kennedy or Mackay Stevens for an example. Drey Wright doesn’t know what his best position is.

Problem is the tactics imo.

Negative and slow.

[makaveli1875]

Don't want him sacked ,doubt he will get sacked . We will never win **** with him in charge though . He's sort of like the lovechild of Levein and McInnes he has combined the tactics of both with leveins fear of silverware

[hibeerealist]

Don't want him sacked ,doubt he will get sacked . We will never win **** with him in charge though . He's sort of like the lovechild of Levein and McInnes he has combined the tactics of both with leveins fear of silverware


Lol, Leveins fear of silverware ha ha.

[EastThomasSTboy]

I think you have summed it up perfectly Calum. The support are pretty much 50/50 if we assume the poll is a fair reflection.
That's pretty hard to come back from without doing something pretty special as it's easier to move from keep him to sack him than the reverse.
The very least we need to start off any sort of turnaround is a committed and positive performance on Wednesday.
Get that and you never know as we do have several players who look great on paper. Maybe once they are all match fit we can finish the season strongly.
Another two or three insipid displays however and I will personally drive him back to Sunderland.

Give me strength.........
To say the Support are 50/50 is a nonsense. A fair percentage voting against Ross will be Trolls.(doing what Trolls/Jambos/Huns, do).
We have over 12,000 season ticket holders and about 150 have voted against Ross in this Poll.
The vast majority just want to see the team do well and not get caught up, in all this Nonsensical vitriol.:flag:

[calumhibee1]

Give me strength.........
To say the Support are 50/50 is a nonsense. A fair percentage voting against Ross will be Trolls.(doing what Trolls/Jambos/Huns, do).
We have over 12,000 season ticket holders and about 150 have voted against Ross in this Poll.
The vast majority just want to see the team do well and not get caught up, in all this Nonsensical vitriol.:flag:

To disregard a poll on a Hibs fans forum and instead claim that the poll has been sabotaged by hearts fans is much more likely to be nonsense than the actual poll imo.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I just don't feel some of the views on here are representative of a manager who has us 4th in the league in his first full season in charge.

His remit is to regularly qualify for europe and reach hampden in both cup competitions.

In that sense he has ticked off each all of those objectives. So that is a million miles from some people saying the writing is on the wall for him.

[madhatter]

Give me strength.........
To say the Support are 50/50 is a nonsense. A fair percentage voting against Ross will be Trolls.(doing what Trolls/Jambos/Huns, do).
We have over 12,000 season ticket holders and about 150 have voted against Ross in this Poll.
The vast majority just want to see the team do well and not get caught up, in all this Nonsensical vitriol.:flag:

Think you are well off if you think most of our ST holders are happy with Ross.

[660]

A hibs.net poll means nothing either way tbh

[Pretty Boy]

To disregard a poll on a Hibs fans forum and instead claim that the poll has been sabotaged by hearts fans is much more likely to be nonsense than the actual poll imo.

Tbh I wouldn't place too much faith in a poll on here.

As hard as it is to believe sometimes this place is far less vitriolic and reactionary than some of the Facebook pages and Twitter, equally though a lot of more measured or positive voices have probably taken cover since last night or don't bother voting on such polls. It's all a bit unscientific.

I'm probably just projecting a bit but I think a lot of people fall into the don't really want him sacked and not sure what the point is but wouldn't be that bothered if he left tomorrow camp.

The ST sales, or lack thereof, will probably give a bit more of a guide as to what people are thinking.

[Dmas]

At what point will Gordon make the call on this?
End of the season?
Not at all?
I’m worried about more drey Wright type signings being allowed.

Martin Boyle was a Drey Wright signing some work some don't, Wright had good numbers for chance creation the season before we signed him unfortunately its not worked out.

but we're not PSG so no matter who is in charge any signing is a is a gamble.

[Smartie]

I think many folk have been losing a bit of patience in him in recent weeks / months, but whilst we were in a cup semi with a winnable couple of games between us and a trophy win we all felt it more than reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt.

There probably wouldn't have been that many folk calling for Butcher's head if he'd scraped a 1-0 home defeat against Accies in that second leg. That was a very heavy straw that broke that camel's back.

I get the feeling that last night was a very similarly weighted straw. In itself, and whilst we sit 4th in the league it doesn't feel on certain levels that we're doing all that badly, but anyone with two eyes who watches our games knows that we're not playing nearly well enough.

The Killie game actually gave me a reasonable amount of hope because it was a good result ground out under difficult circumstances (namely the fact that we're been dire for weeks and the conditions were bad) but I'm very much in the balance when it comes to Ross and so haven't voted one way or another.

And another thing - do we really get excited about reaching semi-finals? Is it that much of an achievement? We've had more diabolical semi final performances and results than heroic ones over the years and our poor results outweigh the decent ones. If we want to start winning them we could do worse than stop thinking it is some sort of an achievement just to get there.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Give me strength.........
To say the Support are 50/50 is a nonsense. A fair percentage voting against Ross will be Trolls.(doing what Trolls/Jambos/Huns, do).
We have over 12,000 season ticket holders and about 150 have voted against Ross in this Poll.
The vast majority just want to see the team do well and not get caught up, in all this Nonsensical vitriol.:flag:


i've not cast my vote,and won't be anyway...but i would think any trolls/jambos would vote FOR Ross surely ?

much like we voted for levein to stay at heartz, for obvious reasons

[WhileTheChief..]

[QUOTE=Pretty Boy;6434300I think a lot of people fall into the don't really want him sacked and not sure what the point is but wouldn't be that bothered if he left tomorrow camp.[/QUOTE]

Catchy name for the camp!

The worry is the danger of apathy instead of the passion you get from anger.

I actually thought the reaction on here to yesterday was a lot tamer than it might have been.

[Swedish hibee]

No I don't want him to go even though I've been his biggest critic!
The media darling has been backed by the board during a pandemic when many other managers haven't and brought in all these players- he's not leaving us high & dry and swanning off to another new job.

[jacomo]

I think he deserves the chance to take us to the end of the season, ultimately has another cup competition and the chance to take us into Europe. It’s not outwith the realms of possibility that he provides us with group stage European football come next season, that would outdo any semi final defeats this season for me.


:agree:

Of course it would. My hope is that, at the end of the season, the 'Jack out' brigade will look very foolish.

[Smartie]

Don't want him sacked ,doubt he will get sacked . We will never win **** with him in charge though . He's sort of like the lovechild of Levein and McInnes he has combined the tactics of both with leveins fear of silverware

If he could pick up McInnes' ability to consistently finish third and Levein's ability to win a derby then he could cut himself a bit of slack when it comes to bottling it on big occasions.

[Dmas]

No I don't want him to go even though I've been his biggest critic!
The media darling has been backed by the board during a pandemic when many other managers haven't and brought in all these players- he's not leaving us high & dry and swanning off to another new job.


I dont want him to go and I have also been a critic, I do want him to see the footballs rotten and his system isn't suiting a decent amount of players in the squad but I think he at the very least deserves this whole season.

[B.H.F.C]

I think many folk have been losing a bit go patience in him in recent weeks / months, but whilst we were in a cup semi with a winnable couple of games between us and a trophy win we all felt it more than reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt.

There probably wouldn't have been that many folk calling for Butcher's head if he'd scraped a 1-0 home defeat against Accies in that second leg. That was a very heavy straw that broke that camel's back.

I get the feeling that last night was a very similarly weighted straw. In itself, and whilst we sit 4th in the league it doesn't feel on certain levels that we're doing all that badly, but anyone with two eyes who watches our games knows that we're not playing nearly well enough.

The Killie game actually gave me a reasonable amount of hope because it was a good result ground out under difficult circumstances (namely the fact that we're been dire for weeks and the conditions were bad) but I'm very much in the balance and so haven't voted one way or another.

And another thing - do we really get excited about reaching semi-finals? Is it that much of an achievement? We've had more diabolical semi final performances and results than heroic ones over the years and our poor results outweigh the decent ones. If we want to start winning them we could do worse than stop thinking it is some sort of an achievement just to get there.

See if you flipped things around this season, poor start but seeing an improving team, folk would be happier IMO. We’re going the opposite way and that’s the biggest problem. We were never going to maintain the early results with the way were playing. They gave us a really good platform and I thought we’d see the team develop but we’re not seeing that at all.

Agree there was no real achievement in getting to that semi final given the run we had.

[calumhibee1]

:agree:

Of course it would. My hope is that, at the end of the season, the 'Jack out' brigade will look very foolish.

At the end of the day, we’re all Hibs fans and that’s exactly what the ‘Jack Out’ brigade would want as well.

A 4th place finish is the bare minimum for us now. It wouldn’t be some sort of great achievement, it would just be alright.

We’ve blew two outstanding opportunities at Hampden. If we manage to blow fourth as well then the ‘Jack Out’ brigade will have been vindicated.

[PompeyHibs]

Sack him
He’s useless
Cant win a big game - boring to watch.
Same at Sunderland. Lost 1. Cup final v Pompey for L1 & L2 sides. 2. Lost L1 play off final same season wi biggest resource budget in league.

Lets hope we punt him on Monday - rebuild

[Since452]

Sack him
He’s useless
Cant win a big game - boring to watch.
Same at Sunderland. Lost 1. Cup final v Pompey for L1 & L2 sides. 2. Lost L1 play off final same season wi biggest resource budget in league.

Lets hope we punt him on Monday - rebuild

Unfortunately he just joins a long list of Hibs managers that didn't win a semi final (the ones that even got us to one). Bearing in mind he's been here a bit over a year and got us to two I'd say he'll win one eventually.

[hibbysam]

At the end of the day, we’re all Hibs fans and that’s exactly what the ‘Jack Out’ brigade would want as well.

A 4th place finish is the bare minimum for us now. It wouldn’t be some sort of great achievement, it would just be alright.

We’ve blew two outstanding opportunities at Hampden. If we manage to blow fourth as well then the ‘Jack Out’ brigade will have been vindicated.

‘Alright’ would suggest average. Finishing 4th isn’t average. It’s good. European football in the summer.

[calumhibee1]

‘Alright’ would suggest average. Finishing 4th isn’t average. It’s good. European football in the summer.

Imo finishing 4th isn’t anything to shout about with the teams that are in this league this season and the backing JR has had compared to the smaller teams in this league. It’s where we should be. No excuses for not getting there. If we get there then we’ve done alright this season. The semi final defeats have put paid to the season being any better than that with a 4th place finish.

[Risboro Hibby]

Jack Ross to me anyway is no more than just a safe pair off hands. Will probably always keep us a top six side but when it comes to the big important games ,his teams always seems to bottle it.

[hibbysam]

Imo finishing 4th isn’t anything to shout about with the teams that are in this league this season and the backing JR has had compared to the smaller teams in this league. It’s where we should be. No excuses for not getting there. If we get there then we’ve done alright this season. The semi final defeats have put paid to the season being any better than that with a 4th place finish.

Thankfully as it stands we’ve got a manager that can meet expectations in the league after a constant line of underachievers in that sphere for decades. 3 times since 2005 that we’ve finished there. The same teams are in the league this year than are most other years. With the exception of 2 years, Celtic are very much where they were in most of their 9 in a row seasons points wise, we are 6 points behind them. That’s a very good achievement and one that gets overlooked due to Rangers being so far ahead making Celtic look worse, and our fans highlighting our poorer results so much.

Yesterday was disappointing but like the hearts game, it’s far from the end of our season. Still one cup to go and a league to finish off.

[lord bunberry]

Imo finishing 4th isn’t anything to shout about with the teams that are in this league this season and the backing JR has had compared to the smaller teams in this league. It’s where we should be. No excuses for not getting there. If we get there then we’ve done alright this season. The semi final defeats have put paid to the season being any better than that with a 4th place finish.
What if we finish 3rd and win the Scottish Cup? Both of which are possible. The people calling for him to be sacked now would look pretty silly. You might say that it probably won’t happen, but it’s a possibility and it’s a possibility because he has us within striking distance of 3rd place and we’re one of the best cup teams in the country.

[blackpoolhibs]

Imo finishing 4th isn’t anything to shout about with the teams that are in this league this season and the backing JR has had compared to the smaller teams in this league. It’s where we should be. No excuses for not getting there. If we get there then we’ve done alright this season. The semi final defeats have put paid to the season being any better than that with a 4th place finish.

That's another belter, we will finish where we finish because we are playing the teams that are in the league, teams are in the league on merit, not history.

Getting 4th place now is just alright. :faf:

You will NEVER be happy whoever is in charge at Hibs.

[ekhibee]

Well people can't have it both ways. Plenty of people on here were moaning and complaining about his lack of emotion when Hibs weren't playing well in a recent thread, plenty of them had something to say about it too. After the game yesterday he was quite rightly angry, that team should have been good enough at the very least to make a game of it in the 2nd half and they didn't, and they're making his job a lot harder. He's protected them up till now, but they deserve the criticism that's levelled at them. I had no problems whatsoever with the signings he made at the time, they looked good on paper, plenty of people on here were more than happy with them at the time, and anybody who says otherwise I totally disagree with. THEY were responsible, yet again they didn't perform on a big stage, and predictably the daggers are out blaming him for it.

[TheHibernator]

(.net is seriously becoming toxic when we aren't winning)

Sick of this narrative that we are somehow significantly more negative than any other group of supporters, I couldn't disagree more. 3 times in the last few weeks we've been pumped off a team with a fraction of our resources and didn't look like scoring if we had played till Christmas. What do you expect the reaction to be?

Any other group of fans would react just as bad if not worse. We've got a good number of supporters who set the standards too low IMO.

Ross has performed to expectations in terms of league position, no better than that. We can't score goals in big games and look down and out as soon as we go a goal down, the football is also eye bleeding to watch at times

He's had a fair crack at the whip but don't think he's the manager to take us forward, if you can't win the big games then everything else is irrelevant.

Thanks for your efforts JR, time to go and give someone else a shot.

[JohnM1875]

That's another belter, we will finish where we finish because we are playing the teams that are in the league, teams are in the league on merit, not history.

Getting 4th place now is just alright. :faf:

You will NEVER be happy whoever is in charge at Hibs.

He's not wrong. Given our clubs squad and budget it's no great deal finishing fourth this season. Anything less is a total failure.

[hibsbollah]

Thankfully as it stands we’ve got a manager that can meet expectations in the league after a constant line of underachievers in that sphere for decades. 3 times since 2005 that we’ve finished there. The same teams are in the league this year than are most other years. With the exception of 2 years, Celtic are very much where they were in most of their 9 in a row seasons points wise, we are 6 points behind them. That’s a very good achievement and one that gets overlooked due to Rangers being so far ahead making Celtic look worse, and our fans highlighting our poorer results so much.

Yesterday was disappointing but like the hearts game, it’s far from the end of our season. Still one cup to go and a league to finish off.

I think that’s right and it bears repeating that we’ve never finished better than 4th since Mowbrays first season. In the 15 years since, we’ve had just two 4th place finishes (Yogi and Lennon), seven mediocre seasons where we were mid table 5th-7th, and six disasters when we were near the bottom or in the second tier. I accept that we should be finishing 4th based on budget, but there’s some historical baggage hanging over us there.

[Coco Bryce]

:agree:

Of course it would. My hope is that, at the end of the season, the 'Jack out' brigade will look very foolish.

In what way would this happen?

[we are hibs]

(.net is seriously becoming toxic when we aren't winning)

Sick of this narrative that we are somehow significantly more negative than any other group of supporters, I couldn't disagree more. 3 times in the last few weeks we've been pumped off a team with a fraction of our resources and didn't look like scoring if we had played till Christmas. What do you expect the reaction to be?

Any other group of fans would react just as bad if not worse. We've got a good number of supporters who set the standards too low IMO.

Ross has performed to expectations in terms of league position, no better than that. We can't score goals in big games and look down and out as soon as we go a goal down, the football is also eye bleeding to watch at times

He's had a fair crack at the whip but don't think he's the manager to take us forward, if you can't win the big games then everything else is irrelevant.

Thanks for your efforts JR, time to go and give someone else a shot.

the toxic thing is a lot of pish pushed by the same clowns constantly.

[calumhibee1]

That's another belter, we will finish where we finish because we are playing the teams that are in the league, teams are in the league on merit, not history.

Getting 4th place now is just alright. :faf:

You will NEVER be happy whoever is in charge at Hibs.

Wtf is this even meant to mean?

I’ll never be happy with who’s in charge yet you hounded me because you wanted PH gone while I said I’d give him more time. Do you actually think before you type?

[hibbysam]

I think that’s right and it bears repeating that we’ve never finished better than 4th since Mowbrays first season. In the 15 years since, we’ve had just two 4th place finishes (Yogi and Lennon), seven mediocre seasons where we were mid table 5th-7th, and six disasters when we were near the bottom or in the second tier. I accept that we should be finishing 4th based on budget, but there’s some historical baggage hanging over us there.

Three times since, Mowbray finished fourth his second season. But aye, since 2001 we’ve finished third in the second tier as much as in the top flight.

[calumhibee1]

What if we finish 3rd and win the Scottish Cup? Both of which are possible. The people calling for him to be sacked now would look pretty silly. You might say that it probably won’t happen, but it’s a possibility and it’s a possibility because he has us within striking distance of 3rd place and we’re one of the best cup teams in the country.

Of course.

Imo that won’t happen though, so I don’t need to worry too much about that.

[hibbysam]

Of course.

Imo that won’t happen though, so I don’t need to worry too much about that.

Why would you ever worry about Hibs finishing third and winning a trophy? Does the manager bother you that much that you’d be worried about it happening?

[#persevered]

For me, Ross's future is hinged on the next month of games.

For my money he's not done enough that I believe in him unquestioningly, but he's not at sacking time yet either.

I don't buy this nonsense that because we've only finished fourth a few times, that we shouldn't expect it. With our current squad and probably the weakest premiership in years, I think it's reasonable to say we should be there.

Bottom line is, that if current form continues, we won't be there. I think he deserves the chance to change things though. A chance to have this window and get his new players up to speed, then he can be judged.

It's easy to forget that his summer window waa hobbled by covid cuts and uncertainty.

[calumhibee1]

Why would you ever worry about Hibs finishing third and winning a trophy? Does the manager bother you that much that you’d be worried about it happening?

I meant I don’t need to worry about looking silly as LB suggested.

[B.H.F.C]

That's another belter, we will finish where we finish because we are playing the teams that are in the league, teams are in the league on merit, not history.

Getting 4th place now is just alright. :faf:

You will NEVER be happy whoever is in charge at Hibs.

I think the point about the standard of teams we are facing is relevant. The league is as weak as it’s been for a fair while IMO. At the same time we’ve invested in our team to a level that most of the league simply can’t.

Im glad that we’re sitting where we are as we know there are a lot of managers who haven’t had us in that position. If you compare this team to the last team that finished fourth, it’s night and day though.

[hibbysam]

For me, Ross's future is hinged on the next month of games.

For my money he's not done enough that I believe in him unquestioningly, but he's not at sacking time yet either.

I don't buy this nonsense that because we've only finished fourth a few times, that we shouldn't expect it. With our current squad and probably the weakest premiership in years, I think it's reasonable to say we should be there.

Bottom line is, that if current form continues, we won't be there. I think he deserves the chance to change things though. A chance to have this window and get his new players up to speed, then he can be judged.

It's easy to forget that his summer window waa hobbled by covid cuts and uncertainty.

We should be there, no one is disputing that, however to then say it wouldn’t be an achievement is being disingenuous. If current form continues Livingston will finish second. That’s not how leagues work though. They’ll hit a bad patch and we’ll pick up points along the way.

[blackpoolhibs]

Wtf is this even meant to mean?

I’ll never be happy with who’s in charge yet you hounded me because you wanted PH gone while I said I’d give him more time. Do you actually think before you type?


Hahahahaha, you just open your mouth and talk crap. If it were up to you we'd sack the manager every year bar the odd time because you are not happy with one thing or another.

Either we are unbalanced, bought badly or not replaced million pound players adequately. Now its eye bleeding stuff, cant win big games and a weak league.


As i said before, you will never be happy unless obviously you are moaning about something.

[hibbysam]

I think the point about the standard of teams we are facing is relevant. The league is as weak as it’s been for a fair while IMO. At the same time we’ve invested in our team to a level that most of the league simply can’t.

Im glad that we’re sitting where we are as we know there are a lot of managers who haven’t had us in that position. If you compare this team to the last team that finished fourth, it’s night and day though.

Is it really as weak as it has been? We’ve got a stronger Rangers, Celtic holding their form for most of the last 9 seasons, Aberdeen bettering their points total from last year. We also lose one of our big assets of our home crowd (it doesn’t affect the smaller clubs who get less of a crowd as much), then below us Livingston are going really well (winning 6/7 on the bounce which only a few non OF clubs have done), and then the usual relegation scraps. For me it’s stronger.

[EI255]

Team he has assembled is rank rotten yet sitting 4th in the league and only 6pts off 2nd, wish we were as rank rotten as this every yearForgot to add, in a rotten league.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[Sir David Gray]

Surely finishing 8th or 9th or relegated or whatever should be seen as a massive underachievement even although it's happened more often in recent years than finishing 3rd or 4th.

We should be looking to finish no lower than 4th this season and no lower than 5th when Hearts are back in the league.

It doesn't mean that will always happen, it's not an exact science after all that teams with the biggest budgets always finish near the top of the league.

However finishing above teams like Livingston, Dundee Utd and Kilmarnock every year is what I expect - therefore a 4th place finish this year would be what I would expect as a minimum. If it doesn't happen then it would be a poor season. Finishing 3rd, above Aberdeen, would be a good season.

I think that's the argument being put forward.

[jacomo]

Imo finishing 4th isn’t anything to shout about with the teams that are in this league this season and the backing JR has had compared to the smaller teams in this league. It’s where we should be. No excuses for not getting there. If we get there then we’ve done alright this season. The semi final defeats have put paid to the season being any better than that with a 4th place finish.


There’s still the Scottish Cup to consider too.

I agree that anything below 4th would be very disappointing. But as we don’t finish in the top 4 very often, doing so would definitely be a decent achievement and something to build on.

I’m as frustrated as anyone else that we passed up such a good opportunity to win a cup yesterday, but our league position does not justify sacking the manager.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the point about the standard of teams we are facing is relevant. The league is as weak as it’s been for a fair while IMO. At the same time we’ve invested in our team to a level that most of the league simply can’t.

Im glad that we’re sitting where we are as we know there are a lot of managers who haven’t had us in that position. If you compare this team to the last team that finished fourth, it’s night and day though.

I'd say we are weak too, weak in the centre of defence, weak in midfield and maybe not popular, but weak up front.

We are not some fantastic side that can blow away teams easily, we are work in progress that are reaching semi finals are are punching our weight in league terms for a change.

Without kacking our pants, there is progress which is there for all to see, and i'm sure in time we will strengthen more and get stronger, and maybe even win a big game here and there. :wink:

[calumhibee1]

Hahahahaha, you just open your mouth and talk crap. If it were up to you we'd sack the manager every year bar the odd time because you are not happy with one thing or another.

Either we are unbalanced, bought badly or not replaced million pound players adequately. Now its eye bleeding stuff, cant win big games and a weak league.


As i said before, you will never be happy unless obviously you are moaning about something.

Jesus Christ. This is about your most embarrassing post about me yet.

Yes, that’s right. About me, yet again. Very little to do with football, very much about someone you’ve never met.

[hibsbollah]

Three times since, Mowbray finished fourth his second season. But aye, since 2001 we’ve finished third in the second tier as much as in the top flight.

That’s weird, transfermarket.com has us 5th that year, must remember not to rely on them again!
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/hibernian-fc/platzierungen/verein/903
But yeah, the point stands.

[The Modfather]

Time to get Petrie, Lennon & Collins back to the club to unite the support 😀

[#persevered]

We should be there, no one is disputing that, however to then say it wouldn’t be an achievement is being disingenuous. If current form continues Livingston will finish second. That’s not how leagues work though. They’ll hit a bad patch and we’ll pick up points along the way.
Absolutely agree about league form, that's why I think he needs more time.

Not convinced that meeting your lowest level expectation is an achievement, especially if you miss all your previously stated loftier ambitions. He said he wanted to challenge, he said he wanted to win silverware.

But that's beside the point, semantics maybe.

Where I am is simple, if we do well in the Scottish cup and finish 4th I'll be happy. If we don't, I'll want change.

[hibsbollah]

Forgot to add, in a rotten league.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

We play in Scotland mate, this is not a new thing :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Jesus Christ. This is about your most embarrassing post about me yet.

Yes, that’s right. About me, yet again. Very little to do with football, very much about someone you’ve never met.

You never like what you have previously said coming back to bite you on the erse do you?

[hibbysam]

That’s weird, transfermarket.com has us 5th that year, must remember not to rely on them again!
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/hibernian-fc/platzierungen/verein/903
But yeah, the point stands.

I’m going off memory so hope I’m no going daft, sure we finished 4th with Hearts second. In the seasons we’ve finished 4th, we made the Scottish cup semi one year pumped by hearts, failed to get to hampden under yogi, and made League cup semi under Lennon. Those seasons were seen as very good seasons, yet this one is essentially a failure.

[hibbysam]

Absolutely agree about league form, that's why I think he needs more time.

Not convinced that meeting your lowest level expectation is an achievement, especially if you miss all your previously stated loftier ambitions. He said he wanted to challenge, he said he wanted to win silverware.

But that's beside the point, semantics maybe.

Where I am is simple, if we do well in the Scottish cup and finish 4th I'll be happy. If we don't, I'll want change.

I agree with your last point, obviously depending on the draw and circumstances of the Scottish cup.

[B.H.F.C]

Is it really as weak as it has been? We’ve got a stronger Rangers, Celtic holding their form for most of the last 9 seasons, Aberdeen bettering their points total from last year. We also lose one of our big assets of our home crowd (it doesn’t affect the smaller clubs who get less of a crowd as much), then below us Livingston are going really well (winning 6/7 on the bounce which only a few non OF clubs have done), and then the usual relegation scraps. For me it’s stronger.

I don’t think there is any doubt the standard has decreased over the last couple of years and particularly this year (Rangers being the obvious exception). As I said, look at our team this year compared to the last time we finished fourth. High profile managers (Rodgers and Clarke) away. Hearts imploding over the course of two or three years. Teams missing multiple players at times due to isolation (thankfully not impacted us really).

[hibbysam]

I don’t think there is any doubt the standard has decreased over the last couple of years and particularly this year (Rangers being the obvious exception). As I said, look at our team this year compared to the last time we finished fourth. High profile managers (Rodgers and Clarke) away. Hearts imploding over the course of two or three years. Teams missing multiple players at times due to isolation (thankfully not impacted us really).

Celtic aren’t any worse than they’ve been though, Aberdeen likewise, Livingston likewise. Hearts have been mince for years. Our team is obviously worse as we are missing a certain Premier League superstar now. The standard of player down through the teams though in the bottom half is arguably better than it was.

[calumhibee1]

I don’t think there is any doubt the standard has decreased over the last couple of years and particularly this year (Rangers being the obvious exception). As I said, look at our team this year compared to the last time we finished fourth. High profile managers (Rodgers and Clarke) away. Hearts imploding over the course of two or three years. Teams missing multiple players at times due to isolation (thankfully not impacted us really).

:agree:

[500miles]

While I don't think he was particularly bad there's no point playing Gogic in front of a back 3, on a massive pitch and when we're expecting so much of the ball. Irvine caused problems with his late runs into the box, we should have had Hallberg on the pitch to offer some rotation for that.

Then there was bringing on Allan and Doidge, 2 players who never link up, and make us even more disjointed.

It will be interesting to see where we are with Irvine, Newell, Cadden and Magennis and Allan fit and up to speed - on paper that should make us very dominant in the middle.

I'm not a huge fan of Ross, I've not seen a lot of the kind of football I like. Don't think he sees enough value in tricky players, especially up against central defenders. He's not clocked that Allan and Doidge don't link up well and that the big Welshman lives off crosses and scraps in the box.

However, we are 4th. He's signed a lot of good individual players. If we sacked him, it would just make us a poisoned chalice, and we've got a lot of first choice midfielders waiting to come back and that should make a difference. It's also a very strange season of empty stadiums.

I'm pissed off about yesterday, but now we need to focus that frustration on the league campaign.

[B.H.F.C]

Celtic aren’t any worse than they’ve been though, Aberdeen likewise, Livingston likewise. Hearts have been mince for years. Our team is obviously worse as we are missing a certain Premier League superstar now. The standard of player down through the teams though in the bottom half is arguably better than it was.

I was going to respond properly to this but if you’re saying Celtic aren’t any worse then there really isn’t any point.

[660]

It’s possible to acknowledge both Ross’s achievements (4th in the league, decent league form overall) and his negatives (poor style of football, failure in semis).

Ross won’t be punted until COVID is over and it’s an understandable decision given the largely acceptable league form and the costs that would be involved in replacing him.

[Since452]

Remember that time we forced a manager, who had a couple of bad days at Hampden and a home defeat to Hearts, out the door when we were 5 points off 2nd and his replacement got us relegated?

[BoomtownHibees]

Celtic aren’t any worse than they’ve been though.

You can’t really believe that

[hibbysam]

I was going to respond properly to this but if you’re saying Celtic aren’t any worse then there really isn’t any point.

Have you seen their points totals compared to previous years? No different to all but 3 of their 9 in a row seasons. Rangers are cleaning up, that’s the difference.

[Jim44]

After an understandably knee jerk reaction shortly after the game, which indicated a huge majority in favour of binning JR, it’s interesting to see that more careful consideration of the issue, appears to be swinging clearly in favour of giving him time to get us sorted out.

[hibbysam]

You can’t really believe that

Look at the bare facts, they’re exactly where they have been majority of the seasons. No worse than they were last year at this point, no worse than they were under Deila, or under Lennon the first time round. Couple of seasons worth of exceptions.

[heretoday]

Ross out. I'm getting a craving for another managerial merry-go-round.

[Peevemor]

After an understandably knee jerk reaction shortly after the game, which indicated a huge majority in favour of binning JR, it’s interesting to see that more careful consideration of the issue, appears to be swinging clearly in favour of giving him time to get us sorted out.I'd imagine that those not susceptible to the predictable knee jerk reaction avoided this place like the plague in the aftermath of the match.

[BoomtownHibees]

Look at the bare facts, they’re exactly where they have been majority of the seasons. No worse than they were last year at this point, no worse than they were under Deila, or under Lennon the first time round. Couple of seasons worth of exceptions.

Last year? The table I’m looking at shows them as having 52 points after 20 games. This year they’ve got 46 after an extra 2 games

The other teams in the league being worse this year will also help when it comes to the likes of Celtic picking up points but to say they haven’t been any worse than last year is way wide of the mark imo

[B.H.F.C]

Have you seen their points totals compared to previous years? No different to all but 3 of their 9 in a row seasons. Rangers are cleaning up, that’s the difference.

Check where they were after 22 games last season. Arguing Celtic haven’t declined from where they were a couple of years back is mental.

[ekhibee]

After an understandably knee jerk reaction shortly after the game, which indicated a huge majority in favour of binning JR, it’s interesting to see that more careful consideration of the issue, appears to be swinging clearly in favour of giving him time to get us sorted out.

Quite right Jim, but are you really surprised?

[The Modfather]

Remember that time we forced a manager, who had a couple of bad days at Hampden and a home defeat to Hearts, out the door when we were 5 points off 2nd and his replacement got us relegated?

We were 6th when Fenlon left, 5 points off second and 7 off bottom. Even with the benefit of hindsight and what Butcher “achieved” Fenlon’s time was up. It might or might not be time up for Ross but we’ve bigger problems if we stick with a manager because we’ve no confidence we’ll get the replacement right.

[hibbysam]

Last year? The table I’m looking at shows them as having 52 points after 20 games. This year they’ve got 46 after an extra 2 games

The other teams in the league being worse this year will also help when it comes to the likes of Celtic picking up points but to say they haven’t been any worse than last year is way wide of the mark imo

Saying last year is my bad, I meant the year before when they had 42 after 20 (44 this year). Rangers are stronger which affects Celtic’s points. Like I said, Celtic are as good this year as they were in the majority of those 9 in a row seasons. You can’t tell me the league is worse now than when it was without Rangers Hibs and Hearts 3/4 years. You then add Dundee United to that mix, your not telling me Hamilton Ross County St Mirren etc are worse now.

[BoomtownHibees]

Saying last year is my bad, I meant the year before when they had 42 after 20 (44 this year). Rangers are stronger which affects Celtic’s points. Like I said, Celtic are as good this year as they were in the majority of those 9 in a row seasons. You can’t tell me the league is worse now than when it was without Rangers Hibs and Hearts 3/4 years. You then add Dundee United to that mix, your not telling me Hamilton Ross County St Mirren etc are worse now.

Personal opinion is that the quality of the whole league (Rangers apart) is lower than it has been for quite a while. Trying to compare points totals to previous years does nothing to prove that either way. With the squad that we’ve got, we should be comfortably getting a top 4 finish this year which I don’t think we will. By that I mean the comfortable part. We may well get 4th but if we do we will struggle our way to it IMO

[The Modfather]

Saying last year is my bad, I meant the year before when they had 42 after 20 (44 this year). Rangers are stronger which affects Celtic’s points. Like I said, Celtic are as good this year as they were in the majority of those 9 in a row seasons. You can’t tell me the league is worse now than when it was without Rangers Hibs and Hearts 3/4 years. You then add Dundee United to that mix, your not telling me Hamilton Ross County St Mirren etc are worse now.

Surely the difference this season is the unprecedented cost cutting clubs have had to make just to survive. How can that not have had an impact on the standard?

[hibbysam]

Surely the difference this season is the unprecedented cost cutting clubs have had to make just to survive. How can that not have had an impact on the standard?

Have those clubs cut the costs in their first teams? Dundee United for example are in the top league and spending more. Celtic more, Rangers more, Aberdeen more, Hibs more. That’s nearly half the league at least. St mirren have invested in their team with Brophy plus other signings. Motherwell are obviously worse, and Killie likewise. The difference in the rest of the bottom 6 id imagine would be minimal from previous seasons.

[hibbysam]

Personal opinion is that the quality of the whole league (Rangers apart) is lower than it has been for quite a while. Trying to compare points totals to previous years does nothing to prove that either way. With the squad that we’ve got, we should be comfortably getting a top 4 finish this year which I don’t think we will. By that I mean the comfortable part. We may well get 4th but if we do we will struggle our way to it IMO

Likewise it’s mine that in the main there’s no difference to the majority of seasons, with the odd exception. I don’t think we can bank on being comfortable, it’s not exactly our fault Livingston are winning every week. If teams go on those sorts of runs then it doesn’t matter what we do. Our record in the main is very good. We won’t win every week, that’s unrealistic, we’ve got a couple of points from Celtic, Rangers have been incredible and a poor record against Aberdeen; our record against the rest is outstanding.

[basehibby]

I have stuck up for Ross but after that abysmal tonking I am certainly having second thoughts.

I actually like the players he has signed by and large and liked the look of the starting line up - which I thought was justified by the first half hour or so in which we could/should have scored a couple.

The worry though is that Ross seems to be getting out-thought tactically with monotonous regularity. That happened I thought vs Ross County and Livingston and it happened again at Hamden vs St Js. St Johnstone went 1-0 up against the run of play with a superbly executed set piece - but yet again after going behind to (in theory) inferior opposition we seemed to run out of ideas and in the end were humiliated. Managing a football side is a multi-faceted job, but effective tactical play and game management is a hell of an important one - if Ross cannot get that right then maybe he's not the right man for the job afterall.

[Greenworld]

I have stuck up for Ross but after that abysmal tonking I am certainly having second thoughts.

I actually like the players he has signed by and large and liked the look of the starting line up - which I thought was justified by the first half hour or so in which we could/should have scored a couple.

The worry though is that Ross seems to be getting out-thought tactically with monotonous regularity. That happened I thought vs Ross County and Livingston and it happened again at Hamden vs St Js. St Johnstone went 1-0 up against the run of play with a superbly executed set piece - but yet again after going behind to (in theory) inferior opposition we seemed to run out of ideas and in the end were humiliated. Managing a football side is a multi-faceted job, but effective tactical play and game management is a hell of an important one - if Ross cannot get that right then maybe he's not the right man for the job afterall.Alex Miller mentioned the tactics of hibs in the Ross County game before kick off and was spot on .
I don't think we have a bad squad but playing Cadden and Boyle yesterday was crazy ..Boyle is like a man short at the moment and you would not have known Cadden was playing.
Nisbet was anonymous he cannot play on his own up front.
So Tactically Ross is being found out a bit.
Do we change him [emoji848] not this season I think we need to see if he has it in him to make the changes required


Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[SlickShoes]

We have finished 3rd 4 times in my lifetime, we have also been in the championship 4 seasons in my lifetime. Which one is therefor our rightful position?

We have only finished in the top 4, 6 times since I was born in 1983. Not sure where some of you get your expectations from honestly.

[Chorley Hibee]

We have finished 3rd 4 times in my lifetime, we have also been in the championship 4 seasons in my lifetime. Which one is therefor our rightful position?

We have only finished in the top 4, 6 times since I was born in 1983. Not sure where some of you get your expectations from honestly.

I never understand this argument.

We've underachieved for years so why should now be any different?

It's about time somebody changed it then - instead of the usual acceptance surrounding failure.

[hibbysam]

I never understand this argument.

We've underachieved for years so why should now be any different?

It's about time somebody changed it then - instead of the usual acceptance surrounding failure.

No ones accepting it, just no one is for giving praise when someone does actually do well in the league and gets us to where we should be.

[blackpoolhibs]

I never understand this argument.

We've underachieved for years so why should now be any different?

It's about time somebody changed it then - instead of the usual acceptance surrounding failure.

We are 4th now, this is good. Now is the time for patience.

It is a lot easier to fail than succeed, lets build on what we have, not bring in another manager who wants his own players and own team.

[bigwheel]

We are 4th now, this is good. Now is the time for patience.

It is a lot easier to fail than succeed, lets build on what we have, not bring in another manager who wants his own players and own team.

A voice of reason in amongst the madness...

[Robbo6-2]

Still so angry today with last night's performance.

This is only heading one way, exactly the same as Heckingbottom. Livingston are going to catch us before we catch Aberdeen.

This is the time to let him go now if we want any chance of finishing top 4.

If Ross remains in charge we will finish 5 at the highest.

[SlickShoes]

I never understand this argument.

We've underachieved for years so why should now be any different?

It's about time somebody changed it then - instead of the usual acceptance surrounding failure.

It’s not underachieving if we have never consistently done better. It just is what it is.

Like Blackpool said, Ross is doing better currently than most of the managers we have had, we are 4th and very close to third. We should be getting behind the team as much as possible to keep the position he’s got us to. It’s pointless hounding him out when he’s taken us from relegation candidates to 3rd/4th. I don’t like losing games with performances like yesterday but it’s happened dozens of times before and will happen again, just got to keep going and try to get better.

[Turkish Green]

Still so angry today with last night's performance.

This is only heading one way, exactly the same as Heckingbottom. Livingston are going to catch us before we catch Aberdeen.

This is the time to let him go now if we want any chance of finishing top 4.

If Ross remains in charge we will finish 5 at the highest.

It appears that I have been angry with Petrie's appointments since Duffy arrived in a chopper. Stubbs, Mowbray and McLeish got pass marks but I wonder how the rest were selected especially Calderwood, Fenlon and Heckingbottom. Dempster's short-lists were always a surprise to me.

[Cameron1875]

If we comfortably finish 4th then he has absolutely bought himself another year to try and improve us in the cups and possibly the league.

If we scrape 4th or god forbid finish 5th then he should be fired.

[Chorley Hibee]

We are 4th now, this is good. Now is the time for patience.

It is a lot easier to fail than succeed, lets build on what we have, not bring in another manager who wants his own players and own team.

I wouldn't say it was good, I'd say it was acceptable/the least expected. I've no faith in us remaining 4th either.

Both cup runs have been failure, dressing up those two defeats as successful (reaching the semi final) is laughable.

Then there is the manner in which we play and the haphazard signing policy we seem to be pursuing (squad of midfielders, injured players etc).

I would love to be proved wrong, but for me - he's not the man to take Hibs forward.

[blackpoolhibs]

I wouldn't say it was good, I'd say it was acceptable/the least expected. I've no faith in us remaining 4th either.

If you dont think this is good, you are in for some very hard times.

Both cup runs have been failure, dressing up those two defeats as successful (reaching the semi final) is laughable.

Both defeats are bad results, no doubt about it.

Then there is the manner in which we play and the haphazard signing policy we seem to be pursuing (squad of midfielders, injured players etc).

How is it a haphazard signing policy?

I would love to be proved wrong, but for me - he's not the man to take Hibs forward.

I'm glad.

[Turkish Green]

Ross may be a cheeky chap behind closed doors but he comes over as a dour bugger in front of the camera.

[calumhibee1]

I never understand this argument.

We've underachieved for years so why should now be any different?

It's about time somebody changed it then - instead of the usual acceptance surrounding failure.

:agree:

[eezyrider]

At the start of the season the aim given to Ross would be 4th and good runs in the cups. So far so good on that count.

Too often we have been doing okayish only to change to a manager that was abysmal.

Ross - stay


EZ

[Peevemor]

Ross may be a cheeky chap behind closed doors but he comes over as a dour bugger in front of the camera.I don't see him as dour at all, but he's a manager not a comedian.

It should be remembered that people have to be extra careful what they say these days, as once it's on the Internet it never disappears and could bite them on the bum at some point in the future.

[Peevemor]

At the start of the season the aim given to Ross would be 4th and good runs in the cups. So far so good on that count.

Too often we have been doing okayish only to change to a manager that was abysmal.

Ross - stay


EZGets my vote.

[The Modfather]

At the start of the season the aim given to Ross would be 4th and good runs in the cups. So far so good on that count.

Too often we have been doing okayish only to change to a manager that was abysmal.

Ross - stay

EZ

What constitutes a god cup run? How far you get or who you beat along the way?

A big part of a cup run is luck of the draw. The route to our two semi finals we played this season was:

Scottish Cup - Dundee Utd (then championship) - BSC - ICT - Hearts
League Cup - Brora, Cove, Dundee, Forfar - Dundee - Alloa - St Johnstone

Arguably, in both competitions we couldn’t have hand picked better draws to the semi final in not facing a single premiership team. To then fail at the first real challenge we came to in Hearts & St Johnstone.

Getting to a semi final is an achievement as you can only beat who you draw, but is an easy run and then getting beat at the first real hurdle a better cup run than hypothetically beating Celtc & Aberdeen to then go out to Rangers and not get as far as a semi final.

[Basildon Hibs]

At the start of the season the aim given to Ross would be 4th and good runs in the cups. So far so good on that count.

Too often we have been doing okayish only to change to a manager that was abysmal.

Ross - stay


EZ

Surely the aim at the start of the season is to try and win the league

And the cups and every game we play..

[Stokesy's on fire]

At the start of the season the aim given to Ross would be 4th and good runs in the cups. So far so good on that count.

Too often we have been doing okayish only to change to a manager that was abysmal.

Ross - stay


EZ


We should be aiming for 3rd minimum

[660]

We should be aiming for 3rd minimum

So the only benchmark of success is to split the old firm. Interesting.

[delbert]

Ross may be a cheeky chap behind closed doors but he comes over as a dour bugger in front of the camera.

He makes Steve Clarke look like Mr Motivator ! If a team is truly the personification of their manager, then it answers the question why we are dull and uninspiring to watch. Gerrard is quietly focussed and so are his team, Lennon is a train wreck and so are his team, Hughes is all motivation and his team respond, Martindale is super enthusiastic at Livi and his players are clearly buying in, we have Scotland’s most boring manager in charge and our team is eye bleeding to watch and look bereft of ideas.

[HFC 0-7]

We are 4th now, this is good. Now is the time for patience.

It is a lot easier to fail than succeed, lets build on what we have, not bring in another manager who wants his own players and own team.

Think this is where fans are divided. 4th place vs 6th place doesn’t make that difference to me. Yes there is Europe involved but it’s usually against crap and a couple of rounds max. For me it’s the cups., that’s all hibs can really win and Ross isn’t instilling the mentality that is required in cup games where you simply have to win. Each to their own though.

[Peevemor]

Ross is anything but a dull person. Those that think otherwise are very poor judges of character.

[hibbysam]

Think this is where fans are divided. 4th place vs 6th place doesn’t make that difference to me. Yes there is Europe involved but it’s usually against crap and a couple of rounds max. For me it’s the cups., that’s all hibs can really win and Ross isn’t instilling the mentality that is required in cup games where you simply have to win. Each to their own though.

4th gets Europe, which in turn gives you more money both in prizes from UEFA and in league positioning, it also means you skip the group stages of the league cup (guaranteed seeded in the next round also = easier draw = more chance of success), makes it easier to sign players, and gives the fans an away trip or two onto the continent. We also don’t need to compete with Rangers or Celtic for those positions so obviously more achievable.

[Smartie]

Ross is anything but a dull person. Those that think otherwise are very poor judges of character.

I find this a strange criticism.

I like him.

The football can be dull. That's something different altogether.

And a dull, ugly win would have done just nicely last night.

[HFC 0-7]

4th gets Europe, which in turn gives you more money both in prizes from UEFA and in league positioning, it also means you skip the group stages of the league cup (guaranteed seeded in the next round also = easier draw = more chance of success), makes it easier to sign players, and gives the fans an away trip or two onto the continent. We also don’t need to compete with Rangers or Celtic for those positions so obviously more achievable.

I get that but winning trophies nets you cash too. I just don’t get as excited talking about 4th place and how it’s a great achievement vs cup wins.

[Chorley Hibee]

When I regale my children/grandchildren with stories of Hibs in the years to come, I'll be talking about 1991, 2007 and 2016 (The years I've watched Hibs win trophies) not the years we've achieved 4th/5th in the league.

Likewise, children won't be scouring YouTube looking for videos of the day we scraped a win away to Kilmarnock on our journey to 4th/5th one year - they'll be searching for finals where Hibs lifted a trophy.

1991 and 2016 were consummate examples of the effect those occasions had upon the support and club, no 4th place finish will ever match that.

[JimBHibees]

Ross is anything but a dull person. Those that think otherwise are very poor judges of character.

Agree think he has a decent engaging personality. Good communicator and obviously intelligent no idea where this no personality comment comes from and even what that even means to be honest.

[Bridge hibs]

When I regale my children/grandchildren stories of Hibs in the years to come, I'll be talking about 1991, 2007 and 2016 (The years I've watched Hibs win trophies) not the years we've achieved 4th/5th in the league.

Likewise, children won't be scouring YouTube looking for videos of the day we scraped a win away to Kilmarnock on our journey to 4th/5th one year - they'll be searching for finals where Hibs lifted a trophy.

1991 and 2016 were consummate examples of the effect those occasions had upon the support and club, no 4th place finish will ever match that.On the same token and understandable that its not an achievement per se finishing a respectable 4th, qualifying for europe either through cup wins or league placings also produce many moments and memories for those fortunate to be able to travel, at the very least in relative terms, an achievement that enables us to share photos of following hibs in other foreign cities

[hibbysam]

I get that but winning trophies nets you cash too. I just don’t get as excited talking about 4th place and how it’s a great achievement vs cup wins.

Cup wins are outstanding, the pinnacle, of course, however they are hugely unlikely. This one was a big chance, no doubt and we let it slip, but very rarely do clubs outwith the top 2 get the chance to lift silverware. 4th has to happen year on year.

[blackpoolhibs]

When I regale my children/grandchildren with stories of Hibs in the years to come, I'll be talking about 1991, 2007 and 2016 (The years I've watched Hibs win trophies) not the years we've achieved 4th/5th in the league.

Likewise, children won't be scouring YouTube looking for videos of the day we scraped a win away to Kilmarnock on our journey to 4th/5th one year - they'll be searching for finals where Hibs lifted a trophy.

1991 and 2016 were consummate examples of the effect those occasions had upon the support and club, no 4th place finish will ever match that.

Finishing 4th or 3rd get you a european place, the more often we do this, the more money we get, the better players we bring in, and the more chance we have of success.

In my years of watching us, it's been thin then thinner most of the time, with the odd boom and bust seasons when we sack a manager for not giving us what we all think we deserve.

Now we have a manager who is delivering what i would call success, albeit disappointing semi final defeats thrown in, we are now wanting the manager out for not winning cups, something i have only seen 4 times in my life.

We seem to have a culture now of not accepting any bad result, irrespective of who its against. We are slaughtering the manager for not winning games against celtic away now, in a way that is actually complimenting him, not that the nut jobs would realise that.

But no, lets sack another manager, and go through more uncertainty, more team changes, and lets ***** more money on replacing a man, who is actually delivering more than most of our manager ever do.

God forbid he had us fighting a relegation battle but had us win against Hearts, if we cant beat their reserve team :faf:, imagine losing that final and then having the joy of facing relegation.

[Waxy]

Football forums are nuts. Battling for third and knocked out a semi and its the end of the world.
If we were sitting eighth in the league and had got knocked out in the last 16 nobody would have been crying this weekend.

[Stuart93]

Football forums are nuts. Battling for third and knocked out a semi and its the end of the world.
If we were sitting eighth in the league and had got knocked out in the last 16 nobody would have been crying this weekend.

If and buts. Are we meant to sit back and say nothing watching our team get destroyed by st johnstone in a semi final? Are we meant to count it as some success just for getting there?

Well done hibs here’s your getting to a semi final trophy. Nearly FC.

[NthCarolinaHibs]

Football forums are nuts. Battling for third and knocked out a semi and its the end of the world.
If we were sitting eighth in the league and had got knocked out in the last 16 nobody would have been crying this weekend.

No seen much "battling" at all.

[lord bunberry]

If and buts. Are we meant to sit back and say nothing watching our team get destroyed by st johnstone in a semi final? Are we meant to count it as some success just for getting there?

Well done hibs here’s your getting to a semi final trophy. Nearly FC.
No one saying we should sit back and say nothing, it was a chance missed and a shocking performance. The team and the manager should be heavily criticised for it, but we can’t sack the manager after every poor result. The managers position should be reviewed at the end of each season or during it if we’re badly underperforming, Ross isn’t underperforming.

[Andy74]

If and buts. Are we meant to sit back and say nothing watching our team get destroyed by st johnstone in a semi final? Are we meant to count it as some success just for getting there?

Well done hibs here’s your getting to a semi final trophy. Nearly FC.
It depends from here what outcome you want.

I don’t think anyone will claim to be happy losing a semi final but then what do you do?

Some people think the only way to win the next one and to get a further place up the table is to sack the manager and get another one.

Others think that overall the one we have is currently best placed to sort it out in future and progress further.

[Stuart93]

It depends from here what outcome you want.

I don’t think anyone will claim to be happy losing a semi final but then what do you do?

Some people think the only way to win the next one and to get a further place up the table is to sack the manager and get another one.

Others think that overall the one we have is currently best placed to sort it out in future and progress further.

Yep depends what you’re perspective is. Everything’s pointing towards Jack Ross and his team choking when an important game presents itself. A worrying trend when you look at his time at Sunderland also.

[Andy74]

Yep depends what you’re perspective is. Everything’s pointing towards Jack Ross and his team choking when an important game presents itself. A worrying trend when you look at his time at Sunderland also.

I couldn’t give a toss about Sunderland who appear to have been much worse before he arrived and much worse again since he left.

In any case, if semi finals are big games I’m assuming he had win some of those to get to cup final and play off finals?

[calumhibee1]

No one saying we should sit back and say nothing, it was a chance missed and a shocking performance. The team and the manager should be heavily criticised for it, but we can’t sack the manager after every poor result. The managers position should be reviewed at the end of each season or during it if we’re badly underperforming, Ross isn’t underperforming.

Near enough all of the calls for his head now aren’t after every poor result. They’re after getting beat at Hampden yet again by Hearts who got relegated last season and are in the league below us, absolutely humped at Hampden by a team with half our budget when we’re strong favourites for the cup and also getting ripped apart in the two home games recently against Livi and RC - two games where we hardly even put up a fight. Throw in the 55 minutes we were behind on Saturday and that’s 2 games + 55 mins in a month where the players haven’t even looked like they were trying.

Throw a general dire style of play into the mix and that’s why people want him sacked. Not off the back of one defeat. Saturdays defeat was just the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people. He’s become a manager who has a very bad habit of delivering once a season style bad results/performances with an alarming frequency. We’re just over half way through the season and we’ve already had 4 or 5.

[Stuart93]

I couldn’t give a toss about Sunderland who appear to have been much worse before he arrived and much worse again since he left.

In any case, if semi finals are big games I’m assuming he had win some of those to get to cup final and play off finals?

But ultimately couldn’t take his team all the way which is the feeling I get with us

[HFCdeb]

I think Ross’s decision yesterday to throw in players well short of match fitness (Cadden, Irvine, Allan, Magennis) ahead of players who have been doing it for him all season could cause massive issues for him with the team.

If you win, everyone accepts it - the players left out can’t complain.

But to lose, and lose in the manner we did, makes it very hard to justify.

Hallberg and Gogic both played well against Killie. We’ve got a striker on the bench so there’s no need to move Boyle up front to accommodate Cadden.

If you’re Hallberg, Mallan or Doidge you’re going to be annoyed at the selection.

For thirty-odd minutes, it looked like it was working but it didn’t take long for the cracks to show.

We looked like a team who didn’t know what we were doing, and the changes that Ross made didn’t change that. In fact, we got worse after the changes.

As great as it was to see Scott Allan back, surely there’s a question about whether or not it’s fair or right to use a cup semi final to give him his first taste of competitive football in months.

To pick the team under those circumstances (unless there are injuries/knocks we’re unaware of that forced his hand) and then compound that by slaughtering the players post match (however much we agree with him) won’t have given Ross much credit with the players.

It’s decisions like these that can see a manager lose the dressing room.

He’s dug himself a hole now as well, because he’s got to pick a team to dig in for him to try and beat Rangers so he’s either going back to the team that let him down yesterday or he’s turning to the guys he dropped for the new faces Not a great situation.

Sums it all up for me Matty. The Scott Allan inclusion as well as no Doidge blew my mind.
Irvine looks real class though to be fair. One bright spot.

[Jones28]

But ultimately couldn’t take his team all the way which is the feeling I get with us

So does he get absolutely no credit for guiding the team to these games in the first place? I'm not trying to be wide, I just genuinely wonder why getting to the semi's of national cup competitions doesn't deserve any credit whatsoever.

We all know cup games are a different animal, I don't think saying a team has had an easy run carries much weight, obviously some runs are easier than others to a point - unless it was Hearts run to the final 2 years ago which was just ridiculous.

[Since452]

Sums it all up for me Matty. The Scott Allan inclusion as well as no Doidge blew my mind.
Irvine looks real class though to be fair. One bright spot.

All ifs and buts now but put some of those chances away when we were ragdolling them first half and nobody would be questioning his team selection. The players blew it.

[GreenCastle]

No one saying we should sit back and say nothing, it was a chance missed and a shocking performance. The team and the manager should be heavily criticised for it, but we can’t sack the manager after every poor result. The managers position should be reviewed at the end of each season or during it if we’re badly underperforming, Ross isn’t underperforming.

Some fans wanted him sacked after the last Easter Road derby.

To be fair the performance was that bad some club owners may have done it.

I wouldn't exactly say he's performing well - he's got a worse record points per game at Hibs than he did at Sunderland and they sacked him.

If he finishes 4th and we get knocked out Scottish Cup - I don't he will even consider that a success. He will know a Cup final - even 2 possible Cup finals (both semi losses to lower teams - one being main rival) or even a Cup win would have been a success - him hitting objectives.

[Since452]

No one saying we should sit back and say nothing, it was a chance missed and a shocking performance. The team and the manager should be heavily criticised for it, but we can’t sack the manager after every poor result. The managers position should be reviewed at the end of each season or during it if we’re badly underperforming, Ross isn’t underperforming.

Absolutely agree. Ross looked and sounded as pissed off as the rest of us at our reaction to going behind, which I'm glad about. He needs to earn his coin and address it because it's becoming a psychological thing now.

[GreenCastle]

So does he get absolutely no credit for guiding the team to these games in the first place? I'm not trying to be wide, I just genuinely wonder why getting to the semi's of national cup competitions doesn't deserve any credit whatsoever.

We all know cup games are a different animal, I don't think saying a team has had an easy run carries much weight, obviously some runs are easier than others to a point - unless it was Hearts run to the final 2 years ago which was just ridiculous.

Brora, Cove, Forfar, Dundee, St Johnstone - not exactly that hard a run.

Hearts had - Livi, Auchinleck Talbot, Partick and Inverness

It's all perspective and it's not like we eliminated anyone we weren't expected to beat and then come against the 1st team who are half decent and we crumble under the pressure and lose - then we have fans on here thinking it's all ok - we will finish 4th and Ross is doing a good job - losers mentality = why we keep losing the important games.

[GreenCastle]

All ifs and buts now but put some of those chances away when we were ragdolling them first half and nobody would be questioning his team selection. The players blew it.

This is already a Hibs.net myth.

We didn't batter them for the 1st half or 45 mins.

We had a good 20 minute spell - 10 mins into the game till 30 mins - the rest of the 60/70 mins we weren't great.

[Andy74]

Brora, Cove, Forfar, Dundee, St Johnstone - not exactly that hard a run.

Hearts had - Livi, Auchinleck Talbot, Partick and Inverness

It's all perspective and it's not like we eliminated anyone we weren't expected to beat and then come against the 1st team who are half decent and we crumble under the pressure and lose - then we have fans on here thinking it's all ok - we will finish 4th and Ross is doing a good job - losers mentality = why we keep losing the important games.

Okay so who is the manager you want to come in that won't lose any important games? That's the important thing here.

Aberdeen have been the team to match having built up for the last 7 or 8 years. They went out the cup to St Mirren at the first stage for them.

So, if you have a winning mentality that the rest of us don't have what is it that you are doing next?

[Jones28]

This is already a Hibs.net myth.

We didn't batter them for the 1st half or 45 mins.

We had a good 20 minute spell - 10 mins into the game till 30 mins - the rest of the 60/70 mins we weren't great.

Were the better side for the vast majority of the first half. I know we were because I watched it.

[flash]

It's funny. After the game I didn't care if he stayed. A few days later I realise what a ridiculous decision it would be to sack him with so much still to play for this season, not to mention the unique set of circumstances he is operating in.
This is actually one of our better seasons and it's not practical to get rid of every manager who doesn't reach the utopia of Brazil 1970 level football and constant cup finals.
Let's face it the managers who we seem to use as barometers didn't come close to that.
It's tough when we are all feeling raw but I think we need to give him a decent amount of time before judgement.
The signings look exciting generally, we play good stuff when we click and our talisman is on his way back.
I know this won't touch the sides with some people but nothing ever does.

[Jones28]

It's funny. After the game I didn't care if he stayed. A few days later I realise what a ridiculous decision it would be to sack him with so much still to play for this season, not to mention the unique set of circumstances he is operating in.
This is actually one of our better seasons and it's not practical to get rid of every manager who doesn't reach the utopia of Brazil 1970 level football and constant cup finals.
Let's face it the managers who we seem to use as barometers didn't come close to that.
It's tough when we are all feeling raw but I think we need to give him a decent amount of time before judgement.
The signings look exciting generally, we play good stuff when we click and our talisman is on his way back.
I know this won't touch the sides with some people but nothing ever does.

:aok: got it in one.

Like you say, some people had there minds made up that JR wasn't the man before this game even kick off but I think your posts will resonate with the majority.

[HFCdeb]

All ifs and buts now but put some of those chances away when we were ragdolling them first half and nobody would be questioning his team selection. The players blew it.

I can't argue with that either. The beauty of hindsight eh?

[calumhibee1]

Were the better side for the vast majority of the first half. I know we were because I watched it.

We were but that went to **** once we conceded at 35 mins. Something which from looking at our record this season when going behind was depressingly predictable. The last 10 minutes of the first half were every bit as embarrassing as the whole second half.

[Coco Bryce]

Were the better side for the vast majority of the first half. I know we were because I watched it.

Sadly the game lasts 90 mins.

[lucky]

No one likes losing, but the sad reality is Hibernian FC are serial losers. We very rarely win anything and unfortunately there is acceptance of that in the support. Saturday was a disgrace, we were playing in a National cup semi final for the second time in 3 months and again we failed to deliver. The capitulation from the team was pathetic. JR picked a team which I doubt many fans would have. The players he selected failed abjectly and caused further embarrassment to the support who have stood by the club magnificently this season. We maybe 4th in the league but for the majority of the games it’s been dire to watch. I think JRs time at ER has come and gone but I don’t think he’ll be dismissed. When 40% of fans want the manager gone it’s not going to end well. Ron Gorgon may stick by him but when ST sales drop massively due the pandemic, unemployment, pricing policy and eye bleeding football he’ll realise action will need to be taken. Hibs fans know we don’t win every week but we want a Hibs team that at least try to entertain

[The Spaceman]

No one likes losing, but the sad reality is Hibernian FC are serial losers. We very rarely win anything and unfortunately there is acceptance of that in the support. Saturday was a disgrace, we were playing in a National cup semi final for the second time in 3 months and again we failed to deliver. The capitulation from the team was pathetic. JR picked a team which I doubt many fans would have. The players he selected failed abjectly and caused further embarrassment to the support who have stood by the club magnificently this season. We maybe 4th in the league but for the majority of the games it’s been dire to watch. I think JRs time at ER has come and gone but I don’t think he’ll be dismissed. When 40% of fans want the manager gone it’s not going to end well. Ron Gorgon may stick by him but when ST sales drop massively due the pandemic, unemployment, pricing policy and eye bleeding football he’ll realise action will need to be taken. Hibs fans know we don’t win every week but we want a Hibs team that at least try to entertain

What a complete load of rubbish. He has us battling Aberdeen and Celtic for Europe. If we crash out of a European place then we do have cause for concern, but until that day comes people need to calm down.

P.S. two semi finals is better than any other team in Scotland has managed past six months. Two bitterly disappointing results but perspective needed.

[B.H.F.C]

What a complete load of rubbish. He has us battling Aberdeen and Celtic for Europe. If we crash out of a European place then we do have cause for concern, but until that day comes people need to calm down.

Battling with Celtic? No we’re not.

We should be battling with Aberdeen for third but that’s starting to look unlikely as well.

[Jones28]

Brora, Cove, Forfar, Dundee, St Johnstone - not exactly that hard a run.

Hearts had - Livi, Auchinleck Talbot, Partick and Inverness

It's all perspective and it's not like we eliminated anyone we weren't expected to beat and then come against the 1st team who are half decent and we crumble under the pressure and lose - then we have fans on here thinking it's all ok - we will finish 4th and Ross is doing a good job - losers mentality = why we keep losing the important games.

Then the revolving door of managers starts and where does that lead us? Heres a hint we saw it in 2014, and it wasn't pretty.

[Brightside]

No one likes losing, but the sad reality is Hibernian FC are serial losers. We very rarely win anything and unfortunately there is acceptance of that in the support. Saturday was a disgrace, we were playing in a National cup semi final for the second time in 3 months and again we failed to deliver. The capitulation from the team was pathetic. JR picked a team which I doubt many fans would have. The players he selected failed abjectly and caused further embarrassment to the support who have stood by the club magnificently this season. We maybe 4th in the league but for the majority of the games it’s been dire to watch. I think JRs time at ER has come and gone but I don’t think he’ll be dismissed. When 40% of fans want the manager gone it’s not going to end well. Ron Gorgon may stick by him but when ST sales drop massively due the pandemic, unemployment, pricing policy and eye bleeding football he’ll realise action will need to be taken. Hibs fans know we don’t win every week but we want a Hibs team that at least try to entertain

I think you need to find another team, or another sport. If we were serial losers we'd be in the lower leagues. Where are you getting this 40% from? Believe me a forum is not a good indication of the general fan base.

[Since452]

No one likes losing, but the sad reality is Hibernian FC are serial losers. We very rarely win anything and unfortunately there is acceptance of that in the support. Saturday was a disgrace, we were playing in a National cup semi final for the second time in 3 months and again we failed to deliver. The capitulation from the team was pathetic. JR picked a team which I doubt many fans would have. The players he selected failed abjectly and caused further embarrassment to the support who have stood by the club magnificently this season. We maybe 4th in the league but for the majority of the games it’s been dire to watch. I think JRs time at ER has come and gone but I don’t think he’ll be dismissed. When 40% of fans want the manager gone it’s not going to end well. Ron Gorgon may stick by him but when ST sales drop massively due the pandemic, unemployment, pricing policy and eye bleeding football he’ll realise action will need to be taken. Hibs fans know we don’t win every week but we want a Hibs team that at least try to entertain



We've won more than Aberdeen and the same as Hearts over the last 30 years, more than Hearts over the last 50 years. Are they serial losers too?

[Broken Gnome]

Nothing that happens between now and the end of the season will get him sacked.

Finishing 5th and getting knocked out the cup to beatable opposition will probably push those wanting him gone into the majority.

Finishing 4th, regardless of the cup, rightly gives him a chance to improve on the team he's built into next season.

[Jones28]

We were but that went to **** once we conceded at 35 mins. Something which from looking at our record this season when going behind was depressingly predictable. The last 10 minutes of the first half were every bit as embarrassing as the whole second half.

I thought we responded well to the goal and half time came at a good time for us. The embarrassing side of the match for me was that any sort of decent play we had vanished after the tactical changes and Doidge coming on. I switched off after the third goal and flicked in and out on my phone for the rest of the game.


Sadly the game lasts 90 mins.

Yes thank you, though you'll see I was replying to a comment about the first half.

IMO people are seeing what the want to see in certain instances and at half time despite being a goal down I was still confident that if we went out in the second half continuing the levels we were at in the first half we would get a goal and go on to win.

[Jones28]

Battling with Celtic? No we’re not.

We should be battling with Aberdeen for third but that’s starting to look unlikely as well.

I hate to tell you this, but we are well in the fight for third and are not a million miles away from second.

[Coco Bryce]

I thought we responded well to the goal and half time came at a good time for us. The embarrassing side of the match for me was that any sort of decent play we had vanished after the tactical changes and Doidge coming on. I switched off after the third goal and flicked in and out on my phone for the rest of the game.



Yes thank you, though you'll see I was replying to a comment about the first half.

IMO people are seeing what the want to see in certain instances and at half time despite being a goal down I was still confident that if we went out in the second half continuing the levels we were at in the first half we would get a goal and go on to win.

That's the problem. I think most of us were expecting the same tempo in the second half which would would have secured the win.

What we were served up was nothing short of disgraceful! Who is responsible for this?

[RossScott1991]

A few days have passed and I’ve had time to reflect.

I am still Jack Ross in, but I now doubt him a lot more than I did before. I like Ross, I don’t think he’s as soft as people like. He is now under the cosh due to losing two semi finals back to back, and I think the manner of which the team played when the 2nd one went in has only made the criticism far worse. Like previous times at Hampden a large part of blame for me goes to the players, this “Hibsing” it at hampden is nothing new. I am only 29 years old and I could rattle off games where I’ve seen some of our best players of the last 20 years / teams freeze on the big occasion and not ‘’show up’’ - boyle and nisbet being the two main suspects against Hearts and St J.

- Livingston cup final (all our youngsters froze and blew it )
- Dunfermline / replay losing 1.0
- Dundee Utd 2.1 (Mowbray side)
- hearts 4.0
- Ross County final

They are some of the ones that stick out at stinging the most where simply our best players just didn’t show up.

Our club is steeped in such failures, now Jack Ross and his team have added to this. I personally feel he deserves another season if he finishes top 4. I think his job hangs in balance in regards to livi catching us as one point the gap was huge.

[lucky]

I think you need to find another team, or another sport. If we were serial losers we'd be in the lower leagues. Where are you getting this 40% from? Believe me a forum is not a good indication of the general fan base.

We are serial losers, we don’t win cups!! the 40% is from the poll on here.

[Greenworld]

That's the problem. I think most of us were expecting the same tempo in the second half which would would have secured the win.

What we were served up was nothing short of disgraceful! Who is responsible for this?And how often has that happened in games this season.
Two semi finals .....hearts and st Johnstone and we are not good enough to win either. So progress is not being made .
League wise you could argue progress but a lot of games we were poor.
When I saw Allan coming on that was it for me a complete joke ..if we have no other players who deserve to get on before a player who has been out and not played a competitive match then we are in trouble.
I think I've seen enough from jacks teams now to see he a bit of a one trick pony .
Doidge has been destroyed by the tactics he needs to be in the box not chasing about the midfield trying to win the ball.
Not for me anymore I'm in The Jack out camp but not until the end of this season..

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[lucky]

We've won more than Aberdeen and the same as Hearts over the last 30 years, more than Hearts over the last 50 years. Are they serial losers too?

We’ve not won the same as Hearts, they’ve won the SC whilst we won the LC. Also look at their derby record. In my time following Hibs over the last 40 years Aberdeen have won plenty more than Hibs. I want a successful Hibs team but we lose to many big games.

[Since452]

We are serial losers, we don’t win cups!! the 40% is from the poll on here.

So everyone outside Celtic and Rangers are serial losers then? Hearts have lost two consecutive SC finals. They must be bigger serial losers than us?

[Jones28]

That's the problem. I think most of us were expecting the same tempo in the second half which would would have secured the win.

What we were served up was nothing short of disgraceful! Who is responsible for this?

Ross should shoulder the responsibility for that, no question there and that was his failing. But overall I think the team shat the bed when the second goal went in. The players should take their fair share of the blame.

[Callum_62]

We’ve not won the same as Hearts, they’ve won the SC whilst we won the LC. Also look at their derby record. In my time following Hibs over the last 40 years Aberdeen have won plenty more than Hibs. I want a successful Hibs team but we lose to many big games.

Wernt you a saying we don't win cups?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[madhatter]

A few days have passed and I’ve had time to reflect.

I am still Jack Ross in, but I now doubt him a lot more than I did before. I like Ross, I don’t think he’s as soft as people like. He is now under the cosh due to losing two semi finals back to back, and I think the manner of which the team played when the 2nd one went in has only made the criticism far worse. Like previous times at Hampden a large part of blame for me goes to the players, this “Hibsing” it at hampden is nothing new. I am only 29 years old and I could rattle off games where I’ve seen some of our best players of the last 20 years / teams freeze on the big occasion and not ‘’show up’’ - boyle and nisbet being the two main suspects against Hearts and St J.

- Livingston cup final (all our youngsters froze and blew it )
- Dunfermline / replay losing 1.0
- Dundee Utd 2.1 (Mowbray side)
- hearts 4.0
- Ross County final

They are some of the ones that stick out at stinging the most where simply our best players just didn’t show up.

Our club is steeped in such failures, now Jack Ross and his team have added to this. I personally feel he deserves another season if he finishes top 4. I think his job hangs in balance in regards to livi catching us as one point the gap was huge.

Why do players that have similar fail stories here go on to reach finals? Bartley, Efe and Wotherspoon? Same with managers. I understand the expectation aspect but surely when you are on the pitch you can’t think about such things? Especially in empty stadiums. Huge portion of blame sits with them still but I cannot fathom why you play a new formation with brand new non-match fit players in a semi final and have a player who hasn’t been taking our corners suddenly taking them.

Also seems like Ross decided to give Allan and Magennis a run out as he couldn’t have possibly thought they would turn the game. That’s very worrying in a cup semi final. Instead of making the most of our strengths it seems mainly about nullifying or matching up against the opposition. Boyle taking the corners was ridiculous as he couldn’t get it past first man.

I don’t think we’ll stop this until we get rid of the “oh well, it’s happened again” mentality. It’s an easy option for managers to say “we have to stop this” at Hibs. All say it and they all fail to fix it.

[Mainstandman]

A few days have passed and I’ve had time to reflect.

I am still Jack Ross in, but I now doubt him a lot more than I did before. I like Ross, I don’t think he’s as soft as people like. He is now under the cosh due to losing two semi finals back to back, and I think the manner of which the team played when the 2nd one went in has only made the criticism far worse. Like previous times at Hampden a large part of blame for me goes to the players, this “Hibsing” it at hampden is nothing new. I am only 29 years old and I could rattle off games where I’ve seen some of our best players of the last 20 years / teams freeze on the big occasion and not ‘’show up’’ - boyle and nisbet being the two main suspects against Hearts and St J.

- Livingston cup final (all our youngsters froze and blew it )
- Dunfermline / replay losing 1.0
- Dundee Utd 2.1 (Mowbray side)
- hearts 4.0
- Ross County final

They are some of the ones that stick out at stinging the most where simply our best players just didn’t show up.

Our club is steeped in such failures, now Jack Ross and his team have added to this. I personally feel he deserves another season if he finishes top 4. I think his job hangs in balance in regards to livi catching us as one point the gap was huge.

Whilst we always believe we should win our ability get to Semi-finals has largely been based on getting drawn against lower league opposition. if you look post 2016 final where performed well against premiership teams in the whole tournament. we've pretty much been knocked out by the first premiership side we've met. The St J/Hearts (they've a squad of premiership standard) result is consistent with that.

[calumhibee1]

Whilst we always believe we should win our ability get to Semi-finals has largely been based on getting drawn against lower league opposition. if you look post 2016 final where performed well against premiership teams in the whole tournament. we've pretty much been knocked out by the first premiership side we've met. The St J/Hearts (they've a squad of premiership standard) result is consistent with that.

:agree:

Whilst our ability to get to semi finals isn’t to be sniffed at, we’ve had some incredible luck with cup draws for a long time now that has definitely contributed to it.

Feels like most cup draws I’m delighted with who we get.

[B.H.F.C]

I hate to tell you this, but we are well in the fight for third and are not a million miles away from second.

We have a good number of points on the board due to our early season form. That puts us in a position to challenge. We definitely aren’t fighting for second. We’ve missed a big opportunity there though. Third we should be, I have my doubts that we will be though. I think Aberdeen will be comfortably above us.

[Jones28]

We have a good number of points on the board due to our early season form. That puts us in a position to challenge. We definitely aren’t fighting for second. We’ve missed a big opportunity there though. Third we should be, I have my doubts that we will be though. I think Aberdeen will be comfortably above us.

We've had our worst run of the season and after 5 league games with 1 win. We are still in the fight.

[Callum_62]

So weve only had these good runs in the cup because of amazing draws

And we are only 4th in the league coz the leagues gash

Cool [emoji106]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[I'm Spartacus]

I'm at the stage where I am not judging any team, manager or player during these times. You just need to watch a game without the fake crowd noise to hear how terrible it must be, every game like a training match.

My only observation about Ross is you could dress him in an Arnold Clark tie and blazer and he would not look or sound out of place.

[calumhibee1]

So weve only had these good runs in the cup because of amazing draws

And we are only 4th in the league coz the leagues gash

Cool [emoji106]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Do you actually read what people say? Could you point out where either of those things were said?

Do you not agree that we’ve had a lot of favourable draws in the cups recently?

[Jones28]

Do you actually read what people say? Could you point out where either of those things were said?

Both of those comments have been made over this weekend.

[Keith_M]

I think we'll finish somewhere between 4th and 6th place, having blown it in (at least) two very winnable semi finals, and carry on the next season being uninspiring.

I have to admit that I fully expected us to get beat at the weekend but being proved right doesn't make me happy about it. I think I've finally lost any enthusiasm that I previously had and really can't be arsed any more.



p.s. For anybody that thinks it was an achievement in actually getting to those semi-finals, I'd like to remind them who we played to qualify. If we'd actually beat anybody decent, then I'd give the team more credit, but the first sign of a serious challenge and we went out.

[calumhibee1]

Both of those comments have been made over this weekend.

I’ll await callum_62 pointing them out then.

[CentreLine]

In the world of premature polls this one takes the biscuit. Probably the best example of what a mess our club would be if but was fan owned. This club is in a marathon. Unfortunately some seen it as a sprint. We have a top manager but nothing is instant in this world.

[PH91]

Nothing that happens between now and the end of the season will get him sacked.

Finishing 5th and getting knocked out the cup to beatable opposition will probably push those wanting him gone into the majority.

Finishing 4th, regardless of the cup, rightly gives him a chance to improve on the team he's built into next season.

That's exactly how i see it.

[calumhibee1]

In the world of premature polls this one takes the biscuit. Probably the best example of what a mess our club would be if but was fanniwnes. This club is in a marathon. Unfortunately some seen it as a sprint. We have a top manager but nothing is instant in this world.

In what world has Jack Ross done anything to be deemed a top manager?

Top managers don’t show an incredible ability to blow big games so frequently. Top managers don’t show an incredible ability to put in absolute abominations of performances in games so frequently.

[flash]

I’ll await callum_62 pointing them out then.

They have been made on numerous occasions.

[Callum_62]

I’ll await callum_62 pointing them out then.Find them yourself, it's been said numerous times this weekend

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

He reminds me a bit of Alex Miller. Despite buying attacking players we seem to go into games with the mindset of not losing. We have some great players in the squad and there is no reason we can't be both successful and entertaining. It isn't easy though as Scottish football revolves around two teams and we will only ever be best of the rest at best. The refereeing also seems to favoured teams who go out to hack their way to victory and that makes it difficult for Boyle and other players who like to run with the ball. Ross needs to work out a way of playing that is secure enough to win points but also entertaining enough to get fans on board. That may take time and getting points was always going to be the first part of the puzzle. he has done that up till now.

[calumhibee1]

Find them yourself, it's been said numerous times this weekend

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Na.

People have said that getting to the semi final was no great achievement because we didn’t play anyone of note to get there. Nobody has said that’s the only reason we got there.

People have said that we should be 4th in the league because the leagues gash. Nobody has said we’re only there because the leagues gash.

What you’re claiming and what people are saying are two entirely different things.

[flash]

Na.

People have said that getting to the semi final was no great achievement because we didn’t play anyone of note to get there. Nobody has said that’s the only reason we got there.

People have said that we should be 4th in the league because the leagues gash. Nobody has said we’re only there because the leagues gash.

What you’re claiming and what people are saying are two entirely different things.

The two things are one and the same.

[Wilson]

We've had our worst run of the season and after 5 league games with 1 win. We are still in the fight.

The fighting part of being in the fight is done by producing results. You can surely forgive people for being sceptical at just how much fight there is in this team. After the second half against St Johnstone I am keen to see just how much of a fight we'll put up for third. Two good games coming up in which to show some real intent. Aberdeen in particular.

I'd love to see a reaction. For the players to show they really want it. I'm just not hopeful.

[B.H.F.C]

We've had our worst run of the season and after 5 league games with 1 win. We are still in the fight.

For me, the poor form/performances stretch back to the first semi final.

We basically played a third of the league season either side of that game. To finish any higher than where we are, we need to replicate the first third as a minimum. I don’t see that happening at all.

[calumhibee1]

The two things are one and the same.

They’re absolutely not one and the same.

I’m sure callum_62 and yourself know that though.

“Getting to the semi final wasn’t an achievement in itself due to the ties we got. It’s the least we should have expected.” Or something along those lines is not the same as

“We only got to the semi final due to the ties we got. We wouldn’t have got there with a different draw”. Or something along those lines

[Jones28]

The fighting part of being in the fight is done by producing results. You can surely forgive people for being sceptical at just how much fight there is in this team. After the second half against St Johnstone I am keen to see just how much of a fight we'll put up for third. Two good games coming up in which to show some real intent. Aberdeen in particular.

I'd love to see a reaction. For the players to show they really want it. I'm just not hopeful.

Me too, I'm not denying the arse collapse in the second half on Saturday.

Maybe fight was the wrong word, still in the kerfuffle for 2nd/3rd?

[Jones28]

For me, the poor form/performances stretch back to the first semi final.

We basically played a third of the league season either side of that game. To finish any higher than where we are, we need to replicate the first third as a minimum. I don’t see that happening at all.

Isn't it relative to the performances of the teams around us?

[Jones28]

They’re absolutely not one and the same.

I’m sure callum_62 and yourself know that though. Hyperbole is just more fun.

They're hardly a million miles from one another.

FWIW I haven't seen comments saying we're 4th because we should be, I've seen comments saying we're 4th because the league quality this season is poor.

[flash]

They’re absolutely not one and the same.

I’m sure callum_62 and yourself know that though. Hyperbole is just more fun.

“Getting to the semi final wasn’t an achievement in itself due to the ties we got. It’s the least we should have expected.” Or something along those lines is not the same as

“We only got to the semi final due to the ties we got. We wouldn’t have got there with a different draw”. Or something along those lines

200 identical posts a day is probably more fun.

[Wilson]

Me too, I'm not denying the arse collapse in the second half on Saturday.

Maybe fight was the wrong word, still in the kerfuffle for 2nd/3rd?

I like fight. I want us to take it to them though. Not just hang around until Livi and Aberdeen punch themselves out!

[stantonhibby]

They’re absolutely not one and the same.

I’m sure callum_62 and yourself know that though. Hyperbole is just more fun.

Do you just like arguing with folk? I'm sure you're a perfectly nice bloke but you come across as the pub bore who always has to be right.

[calumhibee1]

They're hardly a million miles from one another.

FWIW I haven't seen comments saying we're 4th because we should be, I've seen comments saying we're 4th because the league quality this season is poor.

They are. As I edited my post above to say:

Getting to the semi final wasn’t an achievement in itself due to the ties we got. It’s the least we should have expected.” Or something along those lines is not the same as

“We only got to the semi final due to the ties we got. We wouldn’t have got there with a different draw”. Or something along those lines

Both those statements or a variation of them are saying totally different things. I’ve not seen anyone on here saying the second one which is what was suggested.

[Since452]

In the world of premature polls this one takes the biscuit. Probably the best example of what a mess our club would be if but was fanniwnes. This club is in a marathon. Unfortunately some seen it as a sprint. We have a top manager but nothing is instant in this world.

It's the way people are these days. Want instant success. Aberdeen were in a similar position before McInnes came. They pushed on under him and we're doing likewise under Ross. Bad spells will happen. Surely nobody can say we aren't better than Heckingbottoms team, or the absolute car crash Lennon left? With the players and manager we have, the bad spell won't last long and we'll keep progressing.

[Jones28]

I like fight. I want us to take it to them though. Not just hang around until Livi and Aberdeen punch themselves out!

Agreed, I still have faith that this team will. We are at a really low ebb and the semi came at an awful time for us, but if we can find it in us to get back on our feet we will be back this season.

[B.H.F.C]

Isn't it relative to the performances of the teams around us?

I’m no really interested in teams around us, it’s Hibs I watch.

If Hibs are playing well but other teams are better, then so be it. I know some folk will argue that folk wouldn’t be happy but if you look at the last time we finished fourth, ER was packed and we were taking big crowds away from home. Ultimately, we only finished fourth but we gave it everything we had to compete and do better. That’s all I want to see and I don’t think we’re getting that. We can’t influence other teams other than we’re playing against them.

[calumhibee1]

Do you just like arguing with folk? I'm sure you're a perfectly nice bloke but you come across as the pub bore who always has to be right.

The ignore button is always there should you find me boring.

[Jones28]

They are. As I edited my post above to say:

Getting to the semi final wasn’t an achievement in itself due to the ties we got. It’s the least we should have expected.” Or something along those lines is not the same as

“We only got to the semi final due to the ties we got. We wouldn’t have got there with a different draw”. Or something along those lines

Both those statements or a variation of them are saying totally different things. I’ve not seen anyone on here saying the second one which is what was suggested.

You're gonna have to explain what the conclusions to those statements are because I'm seeing the same statement re-hashed to ultimately come the same one:


"We got to the semi final because of fortunate draws"

[Wakeyhibee]

I think we'll finish somewhere between 4th and 6th place, having blown it in (at least) two very winnable semi finals, and carry on the next season being uninspiring.

I have to admit that I fully expected us to get beat at the weekend but being proved right doesn't make me happy about it. I think I've finally lost any enthusiasm that I previously had and really can't be arsed any more.



p.s. For anybody that thinks it was an achievement in actually getting to those semi-finals, I'd like to remind them who we played to qualify. If we'd actually beat anybody decent, then I'd give the team more credit, but the first sign of a serious challenge and we went out.

Wasn't confident either given the football we've played and the recent form. He's got his work cut out winning over the fans again, me included.

4th in minimum now, hope against all hope, 3rd might just sway some back. I cant see it, my head tells me performances look like like we're heading for 5th.

[calumhibee1]

You're gonna have to explain what the conclusions to those statements are because I'm seeing the same statement re-hashed to ultimately come the same one:


"We got to the semi final because of fortunate draws"

The first statement - or a variation of it - doesn’t say we got there because of it. It just says it wasn’t any sort of achievement because of it. It doesn’t say we’d have not got there with a different draw. The first statement is much more along the lines of what near enough everyone has said.

The second statement I’ve not seen a variation of on here. That one, which is what was suggested is being posted on here, would suggest we wouldn’t have been at Hampden in the semi final with a different draw.

They’re entirely different points.

Saying Celtic winning the league when rangers weren’t in it isn’t an achievement because the league is crap isnt the same as saying they wouldn’t have won it if the league wasn’t crap.

That’s the exact same thing as this situation here.

Anyway, it’s hardly worth arguing about. :aok:

[flash]

I think we'll finish somewhere between 4th and 6th place, having blown it in (at least) two very winnable semi finals, and carry on the next season being uninspiring.

I have to admit that I fully expected us to get beat at the weekend but being proved right doesn't make me happy about it. I think I've finally lost any enthusiasm that I previously had and really can't be arsed any more.



p.s. For anybody that thinks it was an achievement in actually getting to those semi-finals, I'd like to remind them who we played to qualify. If we'd actually beat anybody decent, then I'd give the team more credit, but the first sign of a serious challenge and we went out.
We should demand a harder draw in the early rounds to properly validate any progress we make.

[Since452]

People laud Neil Lennon for a brilliant season getting us 4th, making one semi, getting pumped out an early round by Hearts in the SC and doing a stupid aeroplane celebration like it was some magical season of fantastic football but expect Ross to get that as a minimum now? I'd be expecting him to be hailed in the same way if he does.

[madhatter]

People laud Neil Lennon for a brilliant season getting us 4th, not making any semi and doing a stupid aeroplane celebration like it was some magical moment but expect Ross to get that as a minimum now?

Entirely different times. I actually found the 5-5 more of a magical moment than Lennon’s celebration. Based on the fact we’ve been signing some very good players (on paper) during a pandemic while other clubs are wondering if they can survive there should be added pressure. I think Ron Gordon will be wanting 3rd now. At the very least if we are not fighting for 3rd all the way to the end of the season then I think Ross will be under huge pressure.

Would Jack Ross still be in a job had fans been allowed to the games? I’d hope the atmosphere would be toxic as quite honestly I fear apathy. If people had just meekly got out their seats at Hampden and walked away then I fear for the direction of our club. I actually don’t mind Jack Ross, the stuff about his personality is just strange - seems a nice enough guy - I just don’t know if he is ready for the expectation at Hibs yet. It may turn good but it’s the damage it does in the meantime.

Pandemic should not be a route to apathy and we could easily let that happen. We’ll be struggling for ST numbers anyway. Club need to excite fans, not bore them and let them down. Livi or St Johnstone, whilst small, will get a bounce from winning the cup. Financially and fan backing. We’re headed in the other direction.

[BSEJVT]

After my ill judged rant after the Hearts Semi I am a bit more sanguine about matters this time, although Saturday was a really bad result and an abysmal 2nd half performance, which I think the manager and his tactical changes needs to take the majority of the blame for.

I don't think we can / should sack him yet but he has to convince a lot of people of a lot of things.

We can argue till the cows come home about where we should finish in leagues and cups and never reach a consensus but IMO he needs to show:

1) That he can complete and maintain a squad with a decent balance of cover in all areas, not a million midfielders, the lack of cover in central defence and in a central striking role is bloody ridiculous, you could argue that both Semi's may have had other outcomes with better cover in those positions.

2) He needs to identify and stick with a consistent team selection and pattern of play, I seriously doubt anyone bar those with no competition for their positions is sure of their position or the role they are being asked to play even within a single game yet alone weekly and that must destroy confidence.

3) He needs to make sure we have far less days like v Livingstone v Ross County and 2hd half Saturday where are completely out of sorts and not even in the game

4) He needs to sign some leaders and battlers for those days in 3 above so that at least we always compete, nothing does my tits in more than performances like those.

5) He needs to be fair to his players, he has hung some out to dry by playing them when unfit and others when they are massively out of form (like Boyle & Doidge)

Results are transient, as are league and cup positions and our over achievement in the latter in recent years hints towards a statistical likelihood of poorer days ahead, but if he can make progress in 1-5 above I would be a lot happier and give him till the end of next season to truly assemble his own squad and then live or die by it

[MWHIBBIES]

Battling with Celtic? No we’re not.

We should be battling with Aberdeen for third but that’s starting to look unlikely as well.

We're a lot closer to Aberdeen than Livi are to us and people are convinced Livi will be above us?

Its just doom and gloom nonsense.

[B.H.F.C]

We're a lot closer to Aberdeen than Livi are to us and people are convinced Livi will be above us?

Its just doom and gloom nonsense.

I’m not convinced Livi will finish above us.

[B.H.F.C]

People laud Neil Lennon for a brilliant season getting us 4th, making one semi, getting pumped out an early round by Hearts in the SC and doing a stupid aeroplane celebration like it was some magical season of fantastic football but expect Ross to get that as a minimum now? I'd be expecting him to be hailed in the same way if he does.

The team we are watching is night and day to that team. It was exciting and everyone was playing to their maximum. Do you think the same about this side?

[flash]

The team we are watching is night and day to that team. It was exciting and everyone was playing to their maximum. Do you think the same about this side?

Not every week they weren't.

[B.H.F.C]

Not every week they weren't.

Of course the weren’t. No Hibs team ever will be. Hell of a lot more exciting than the current team though.

[Since452]

The team we are watching is night and day to that team. It was exciting and everyone was playing to their maximum. Do you think the same about this side?

Home defeats to Hamilton and St Johnstone and pumped out the cup to Hearts weren't very exciting

[Keith_M]

We should demand a harder draw in the early rounds to properly validate any progress we make.


It's called context, in terms of how much credit people suggested we get for merely qualifying for the Semi-Final.


In 1985, a pretty poor Hibs side knocked Celtc and Rangers out then were beaten in the final by Aberdeen. Hibs deserved a lot of credit for getting there, despite the disappointment of how we lost the final.

This isn't the same situation at all.

[Jones28]

Home defeats to Hamilton and St Johnstone and pumped out the cup to Hearts weren't very exciting

And losing the 2017 semi to Aberdeen. And the "2nd place" derby at Tynecastle, you know the one where Lennon was cock-teasing about staying the following season.

[flash]

It's called context, in terms of how much credit people suggested we get for merely qualifying for the Semi-Final.


In 1985, a pretty poor Hibs side knocked Celtc and Rangers out then were beaten in the final by Aberdeen. Hibs deserved a lot of credit for getting there, despite the disappointment of how we lost the final.

This isn't the same situation at all.

It's a frankly ridiculous stick to beat the club with.

[Keith_M]

It's a frankly ridiculous stick to beat the club with.


I'm not beating the club with any stick.

:confused:


People suggested that we give credit for at least reaching the Semi Finals, but surely the amount of credit is based on how hard the draw was.

[B.H.F.C]

And losing the 2017 semi to Aberdeen. And the "2nd place" derby at Tynecastle, you know the one where Lennon was cock-teasing about staying the following season.

Without turning this in to a Neil Lennon thing, how do you think the football on show this season compares to that, even if we’re in the same position.

Why be so selective with the games you pick? Why not talk about the derbies we did win, the wins at Ibrox or some of the other positive things we saw.

Same league position but the attitude towards what we were watching, for many, was totally different.

That side had their bad games, obviously, but they didn’t just give up like we did on Saturday.

[Allez Hibs]

Jack Dross.

Hibs have lost 8 semi finals to non old firm teams in last 20 years. 25% of them under Jack Ross and hes not played Premier sides to get there. Pathetic stuff.

[Peevemor]

Jack Dross.

Hibs have lost 8 semi finals to non old firm teams in last 20 years. 25% of them under Jack Ross not playing Premier sides to get there. Pathetic stuff.

You're at it too now? How pathetic!

You still haven't told us your other .net user name(s).

[flash]

Jack Dross.

Hibs have lost 8 semi finals to non old firm teams in last 20 years. 25% of them under Jack Ross and hes not played Premier sides to get there. Pathetic stuff.

Not half as pathetic as name calling your own manager.

[bigwheel]

Jack Dross.

Hibs have lost 8 semi finals to non old firm teams in last 20 years. 25% of them under Jack Ross and hes not played Premier sides to get there. Pathetic stuff.

Hahaha 25%. So you mean 2

[MrSmith]

Just the same old same old, init guv?

I remember the anticipation to starting the season with quotes like, "Gogic, now there's the type of player we should be buying" we did! And, Getting Nisbet 'Fantastic bit of business" etc. On paper, we have a really good team but I think some of them have simply ran out of steam playing for Hibs and the others need a kick in the pants! I think imo, JR has done OK but we must get to the bottom of why these players who are definitely good players, begin to falter once at ER? There is something else going on because if Hearts can instil an effective performance mentality into their dross and lets face, they are dross, why can't we? Is our club simply too nice?

[Since452]

Jack Dross.

Hibs have lost 8 semi finals to non old firm teams in last 20 years. 25% of them under Jack Ross and hes not played Premier sides to get there. Pathetic stuff.

Jack Dross? Rediculous comment. Sound like a Jambo

[HoboHarry]

Jack Dross.

Hibs have lost 8 semi finals to non old firm teams in last 20 years. 25% of them under Jack Ross and hes not played Premier sides to get there. Pathetic stuff.
Dearie me, how old are you? :faf::faf::faf:

[Since452]

Without turning this in to a Neil Lennon thing, how do you think the football on show this season compares to that, even if we’re in the same position.

Why be so selective with the games you pick? Why not talk about the derbies we did win, the wins at Ibrox or some of the other positive things we saw.

Same league position but the attitude towards what we were watching, for many, was totally different.

That side had their bad games, obviously, but they didn’t just give up like we did on Saturday.

Rangers were infanatly weaker then. They finished behind Aberdeen. In fact you could argue that was a weaker league than the current one to counter what others have said about today's league being weak.

[Stuart93]

Rangers were infanatly weaker then. They finished behind Aberdeen. In fact you could argue that was a weaker league than the current one to counter what others have said about today's league being weak.

There’s no chance the league was weaker then than it is now.

You have a really strong rangers side but outwith that I wouldn’t say any other team maybe apart from livi (recently) are stronger now than they were then with regards to the top end of the league.

Motherwell, killie & a half decent hearts team were all in the league that season. As well as a stronger Aberdeen side.

To suggest the leagues stronger now is truly nonsense. And Neil Lennons hibs team from the second half of that season would make easy work of our current hibs side & I wasn’t a big Neil Lennon fan

[B.H.F.C]

Rangers were infanatly weaker then. They finished behind Aberdeen. In fact you could argue that was a weaker league than the current one to counter what others have said about today's league being weak.

Rangers were weaker. The league, throughout, wasn’t. What about our results against Celtic that season instead? A far superior Celtic team to now. Two of the three teams that finished above us that season are poorer now. Rangers are better. We’re poorer. The team directly below us, Killie, have got poorer. Hearts below them have got poorer.

That’s all a bit by the by though. Come back to my question about the football we played that season compared to this. It was night and day. The only point of the comparison is that it demonstrates league position isn’t the be all and end all. What you watch weekly influences what folk think because there is no way there was the same level of criticism towards the manager/team back then, despite our league position being the same.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Jack Dross.

Hibs have lost 8 semi finals to non old firm teams in last 20 years. 25% of them under Jack Ross and hes not played Premier sides to get there. Pathetic stuff.



you're the 2nd poster to use that crap

[Allez Hibs]

You're at it too now? How pathetic!

You still haven't told us your other .net user name(s).

Are you an admin? Do you police the forum? Or are you here on the clubs behalf to never criticise them?

Jack Ross is a poor man's Alex Miller.

Is his style of football Dross?
Is his record in big games Dross?
Is his ability to tactically change a game Dross?

Why should we accept mediocrity?

Saturday is one of the biggest screw ups from Hibs in our lifetime.

[Jones28]

Without turning this in to a Neil Lennon thing, how do you think the football on show this season compares to that, even if we’re in the same position.

Why be so selective with the games you pick? Why not talk about the derbies we did win, the wins at Ibrox or some of the other positive things we saw.

Same league position but the attitude towards what we were watching, for many, was totally different.

That side had their bad games, obviously, but they didn’t just give up like we did on Saturday.

I was being selective because the other poster was too, but a very important point about that game and others at Tynecastle under Lennon was that we shat the bed in a lot of them. We played awful football at Tynecastle, in fact I think the best football we've played at Tynecastle was in the first half of the Boyle double win last season under Ross ironically.

I'm not questioning anything you're saying. We played the best football I've seen Hibs play under NL and I won't hear anyone criticise our style, bravery, attacking intent or quality. But at that time we had the best midfield in Scotland at our disposal and we have been trying to rediscover that formula ever since. Allan is key to that but until now with Irvine coming in and his being side-lined he hasn't been able to find that form again. And we are lacking a proper leader in the middle of the park but for me I've seen enough this season to suggest that we do have quality there and this is a confidence issue. Newall being out was a big blow for us too.

[Peevemor]

hello hermit crab

I don't think it's him - I think they just share a gang hut.

But if you ever want to keep Allez Hibs quiet for a bit, you only have to ask him what his other user name is and he disappears for hours.

[Jones28]

Are you an admin? Do you police the forum? Or are you here on the clubs behalf to never criticise them?

Jack Ross is a poor man's Alex Miller.

Is his style of football Dross?
Is his record in big games Dross?
Is his ability to tactically change a game Dross?

Why should we accept mediocrity?

Saturday is one of the biggest screw ups from Hibs in our lifetime.

Are you a 10 year old laddie who thinks he's clever by calling the manager Jack Dross? Like a ****ing jambo?

I've asked this on another thread but I've yet to receive an answer: what does not accepting mediocrity look like?

[mcfly]

What I find more concerning on this is that 56% of the votes cast want him to stay.

Under jack Ross the football we watch is dreadful and hoof ball boring.

We have meekly surrendered 2 cup semi finals.
We don’t beat Aberdeen. Celtic, rangers

He will cause a massive drop in season ticket sales. The football is awful
Same defensive mistakes all the time, too many midfielders signed.

The list goes on and on.

He’s not the right manager for us.

[Peevemor]

Are you an admin? Do you police the forum? Or are you here on the clubs behalf to never criticise them?

Jack Ross is a poor man's Alex Miller.

Is his style of football Dross?
Is his record in big games Dross?
Is his ability to tactically change a game Dross?

Why should we accept mediocrity?

Saturday is one of the biggest screw ups from Hibs in our lifetime.

It's not like you to come out all guns blazing at me even though I'm not the only one to have pulled you up.

Your "Jack Dross" patter is peurile crap.

You've been a member since 2002 but have less than 300 posts - most of them in the past 2-3 weeks. Come on, man up - what other user names do you have?

[The Spaceman]

Anyone who genuinely thinks we should get rid of Jack Ross now, quite frankly, is utterly clueless in regard to both our football club and football in general. It is so simple to just look at our club over the past 30 years and realise we are still having a relatively good/strong season so far. Had we been pumped out of the league cup and Scottish cup early doors and were sitting fourth in the league two points off Aberdeen and six points off Celtic nobody would be in hysterics right now. If you are on his back now, then you should really go support (or hate) some other football club.

[mcfly]

Anyone who genuinely thinks we should get rid of Jack Ross now, quite frankly, is utterly clueless in regard to both our football club and football in general. It is so simple to just look at our club over the past 30 years and realise we are still having a relatively good/strong season so far. Had we been pumped out of the league cup and Scottish cup early doors and were sitting fourth in the league two points off Aberdeen and six points off Celtic nobody would be in hysterics right now. If you are on his back now, then you should really go support (or hate) someone other football club.

Wow

As I’m clueless I’ll bow to your undoubted wisdom and how happy you are at our flowing exciting style of football.

[Allez Hibs]

It's not like you to come out all guns blazing at me even though I'm not the only one to have pulled you up.

Your "Jack Dross" patter is peurile crap.

You've been a member since 2002 but have less than 300 posts - most of them in the past 2-3 weeks. Come on, man up - what other user names do you have?

Yes, Jack Ross is the man to take us forward right enough, football genius with a swashbuckling style of play 👍 👍 👍

I'm curious why you don't have an opinion on the football aspect of Hibs and "pull up" other posters for doing so.

[Peevemor]

Yes, Jack Ross is the man to take us forward, football genius with a swashbuckling style of play 👍 👍 👍

Still not answering my question then?

You've got plenty to say but you won't let on under what other name(s) we might know you?

What are you afraid of?

[Chorley Hibee]

Anyone who genuinely thinks we should get rid of Jack Ross now, quite frankly, is utterly clueless in regard to both our football club and football in general. It is so simple to just look at our club over the past 30 years and realise we are still having a relatively good/strong season so far. Had we been pumped out of the league cup and Scottish cup early doors and were sitting fourth in the league two points off Aberdeen and six points off Celtic nobody would be in hysterics right now. If you are on his back now, then you should really go support (or hate) some other football club.

Don't criticise, Hibs are nearly always rubbish, if you do criticise you're an idiot, and if you don't like how Hibs play/perform then go and support another team.

Hard to know where to even start with that.

[Allez Hibs]

Still not answering my question then?

You've got plenty to say but you won't let on under what other name(s) we might know you?

What are you afraid of?

Are you serious. If my post count says its low then I'm an infrequent poster who is now giving an opinion as a season ticket holder of about 25 years.

I thought the role of an admin was to keep the discussion on track and not segway?

[bigwheel]

Anyone who genuinely thinks we should get rid of Jack Ross now, quite frankly, is utterly clueless in regard to both our football club and football in general. It is so simple to just look at our club over the past 30 years and realise we are still having a relatively good/strong season so far. Had we been pumped out of the league cup and Scottish cup early doors and were sitting fourth in the league two points off Aberdeen and six points off Celtic nobody would be in hysterics right now. If you are on his back now, then you should really go support (or hate) some other football club.

Agree with this ..the hysterics are beyond any reasonable assessment of where we are. People should feel free to criticise and pose questions - but to support throwing Ross out after 12 months of this journey is without doubt a ridiculous position to take ..

[Peevemor]

Are you serious. If my post count says its low then I'm an infrequent poster who is now giving an opinion as a season ticket holder of about 25 years.

I thought the role of an admin was to keep the discussion on track and not segway?

OK, so you don't have any other user names on here - past or present?

[PH91]

Are you an admin? Do you police the forum? Or are you here on the clubs behalf to never criticise them?

Jack Ross is a poor man's Alex Miller.

Is his style of football Dross?
Is his record in big games Dross?
Is his ability to tactically change a game Dross?

Why should we accept mediocrity?

Saturday is one of the biggest screw ups from Hibs in our lifetime.

Absolutely no hint of irony in the fact that impatient fans who hound out managers who have only been here for a short while on the basis of "not accepting mediocrity" are the ones that drive us to mediocrity as we are unable to build a squad to compete at the top end of the table, each new manager ripping the last one's squad apart only to be binned before he completes building his own.

Ask rangers and man utd fans whether they are happy they accepted a period of "mediocrity" to get where they are now.