US Presidential Elections 2020

[Keith_M]

Just read a comment saying Biden was a 'predator'. There's been some stuff in the press along these lines as well,

Is this actually true or is it just an exaggerated way of describing somebody who put his hand on some people's shoulders or arms?


Inappropriate? Depending on the circumstances (which I genuinely don't know), then that's entirely possible.

A sexual predator? Sorry, but unless there's a lot more about his behaviour that I haven't read, then that sounds way over the top. From what I've read so far, he's no Harvey Weinstein.



I'm honestly impartial in this and if there's something about his behaviour that is much worse than I mentioned above, then maybe somebody could post some details/links.

:aok:

[Ozyhibby]

Your last point surely doesn't hold true unless you consider Trump and Boris to be centrist politicians?

Trump won first time out against a very unpopular opponent and on the back of TV celebrity. He has just been beaten second time out.
Johnson was more to the centre than his opponent.


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[Jones28]

Equally would have been nice to have a positive message from Trump.

Talk about project fear.

Every tweet and rally was

They will take your jobs
Take your guns
Ban god
Antifa will ruin your cities
They want to take your flag

Jusus mate! Give the country some hope!

J

Yepp, talk about a negative campaign. It was undiluted fear mixed with a healthy dose of lies.

[Kato]

Johnson was more to the centre than his opponent.




Debatable.



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[AltheHibby]

According to the polls, the whole thing was supposed to be one big Biden victory march. Instead Trump has actually picked up millions more votes than he got last time out. Baffling to our eyes, but it shows how divided a nation the USA is. The fact this has turned out to be such a close, drawn-out affair is the worst possible outcome from that perspective. Even if Biden is ultimately declared the winner, Trump will keep this going for weeks/months.


It doesn't help that the churches over there are pushing the view that Trump is a "man of God" because he's against abortion and for Isreal. His character is excused as 'his mistakes are in the past'.

[hibsbollah]

He did take all the oxygen away from the other Dem candidates. He had a base and organisation that had not been stood down from 4 years earlier. He had a massive fundraising operation already collecting million of dollars. It made it very difficult for young less well known Dem candidates to make any headway especially since Bernie was massively supported by the younger voters they would need to help build any momentum.
Even with all that he couldn’t seal the deal. Biden entered the race very late but wiped the floor with Sanders. It wasn’t even close. Given that he couldn’t win a majority of Dem voters, it’s hard to argue that he could have won a majority in a general election. The left constantly confuses large enthusiastic support among young people on marches or at rally’s with widespread popularity within the population. It was the same with Corbyn.
You win from the centre in politics.


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What represents ‘the centre’ depends on your point of view. There is no doubt in my mind that Sanders would have won several states that Biden didn’t manage, including West Virginia and Ohio. Would he have taken Florida or Texas? No, and his health would have been in danger had he ventured down there because of the ludicrous communist label, but neither did Biden.

You just need to look around the world and see that ‘win from the centre’ does not work anymore for the soft/centre left unless you take your base along with you. Trump didn’t just happen in a vacuum, he walked into states and took them because the DP wasn’t perceived as representing the working joe and started representing Wall Street.

[Hibrandenburg]

Just read a comment saying Biden was a 'predator'. There's been some stuff in the press along these lines as well,

Is this actually true or is it just an exaggerated way of describing somebody who put his hand on some people's shoulders or arms?


Inappropriate? Depending on the circumstances (which I genuinely don't know), then that's entirely possible.

A sexual predator? Sorry, but unless there's a lot more about his behaviour that I haven't read, then that sounds way over the top. From what I've read so far, he's no Harvey Weinstein.



I'm honestly impartial in this and if there's something about his behaviour that is much worse than I mentioned above, then maybe somebody could post some details/links.

:aok:

It's all out there in the public domain and you can even sign up for seminars at the University of YouTube to get fully educated.

[lapsedhibee]

It's all out there in the public domain

Not all of it. Libtards are keeping the underground, bloodsucking bits well hidden. SO FAR.

[hibsbollah]

Just read a comment saying Biden was a 'predator'. There's been some stuff in the press along these lines as well,

Is this actually true or is it just an exaggerated way of describing somebody who put his hand on some people's shoulders or arms?


Inappropriate? Depending on the circumstances (which I genuinely don't know), then that's entirely possible.

A sexual predator? Sorry, but unless there's a lot more about his behaviour that I haven't read, then that sounds way over the top. From what I've read so far, he's no Harvey Weinstein.



I'm honestly impartial in this and if there's something about his behaviour that is much worse than I mentioned above, then maybe somebody could post some details/links.

:aok:

I think there was a previous complaint of Bidens sexual impropriety. I suppose the problem for anyone on the Trump side looking to make capital out of it politically is Trump has I think 26 separate sexual assault allegations against him, and he’s been caught on tape boasting about it. And then he was elected.

[Ozyhibby]

What represents ‘the centre’ depends on your point of view. There is no doubt in my mind that Sanders would have won several states that Biden didn’t manage, including West Virginia and Ohio. Would he have taken Florida or Texas? No, and his health would have been in danger had he ventured down there because of the ludicrous communist label, but neither did Biden.

You just need to look around the world and see that ‘win from the centre’ does not work anymore for the soft/centre left unless you take your base along with you. Trump didn’t just happen in a vacuum, he walked into states and took them because the DP wasn’t perceived as representing the working joe and started representing Wall Street.

Ohio primary was won by Biden 72% to Sanders 17%? Hardly suggests sanders could have rallied the whole state behind him?


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[hibsbollah]

Ohio primary was won by Biden 72% to Sanders 17%? Hardly suggests sanders could have rallied the whole state behind him?


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Im sure you know that the primaries are chosen on the basis of votes of DNC delegates. Based on your politics I’m sure you’re not a Michael Moore fan. but his recent Fahrenheit 11/7 gives a good account of the chicanery that goes on, usually against the wishes of actual Dem voters in blue collar districts.

Sanders would have walked the rust belt states.

[marinello59]

It doesn't help that the churches over there are pushing the view that Trump is a "man of God" because he's against abortion and for Isreal. His character is excused as 'his mistakes are in the past'.

Some of the churches.

[calumhibee1]

Just read a comment saying Biden was a 'predator'. There's been some stuff in the press along these lines as well,

Is this actually true or is it just an exaggerated way of describing somebody who put his hand on some people's shoulders or arms?


Inappropriate? Depending on the circumstances (which I genuinely don't know), then that's entirely possible.

A sexual predator? Sorry, but unless there's a lot more about his behaviour that I haven't read, then that sounds way over the top. From what I've read so far, he's no Harvey Weinstein.



I'm honestly impartial in this and if there's something about his behaviour that is much worse than I mentioned above, then maybe somebody could post some details/links.

:aok:

There was/is an allegation of sexual assault - admittedly it’s just an allegation, but there’s numerous videos of massively inappropriate behaviour from him towards women/kids as well.

Predator to be fair maybe was a bit over the top. The guy is imo a creep though and isn’t much different from Trump in that regard.

[calumhibee1]

I think there was a previous complaint of Bidens sexual impropriety. I suppose the problem for anyone on the Trump side looking to make capital out of it politically is Trump has I think 26 separate sexual assault allegations against him, and he’s been caught on tape boasting about it. And then he was elected.

Sexual assault as well as sexual impropriety. For balance, you can’t fail to point out the sexual assault allegation against Biden and only focus on his sexual impropriety to then go on and point out Trumps sexual assault allegations.

The two of them are creeps.

[hibsbollah]

Sexual assault as well as sexual impropriety. For balance, you can’t fail to point out the sexual assault allegation against Biden and only focus on his sexual impropriety to then go on and point out Trumps sexual assault allegations.

The two of them are creeps.

I didn’t fail to point it out.

[calumhibee1]

I didn’t fail to point it out.

Can you point me in the direction of the part of your post that mentions it?

[Smartie]

Debatable.



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True, but that debate would be a bit like the "who is closer to the centre ground - Hitler or Trotsky?" debate - ie largely pointless.

It probably says a lot about where the centre ground lies these days when Corbyn can be lambasted for suggesting it might be an idea to take a dysfunctional rail network back into public ownership, whereas Johnson can't appear to get anything done in a coronavirus crisis for the large rump of people within his own party who would happily see thousands of vulnerable people die if it meant we could just get back to work.

[hibsbollah]

Can you point me in the direction of the part of your post that mentions it?

The first sentence.

[calumhibee1]

The first sentence.

Sexual impropriety isn’t sexual assault. The very definition of it is anything deemed lesser than sexual assault . I’m sure you’re aware of that seeing as you chose to use a different term for Biden than you did Trump.

[hibsbollah]

Sexual impropriety isn’t sexual assault. I’m sure you’re aware of that seeing as you chose to use a different term for Biden than you did Trump.

Oh I see, you mean the actual word ‘assault’. Well yes you’re right in that case but I think we’re splitting hairs. My point was yes, to confirm there are accusations against both men.

Any news on the senate?

[Ozyhibby]

True, but that debate would be a bit like the "who is closer to the centre ground - Hitler or Trotsky?" debate - ie largely pointless.

It probably says a lot about where the centre ground lies these days when Corbyn can be lambasted for suggesting it might be an idea to take a dysfunctional rail network back into public ownership, whereas Johnson can't appear to get anything done in a coronavirus crisis for the large rump of people within his own party who would happily see thousands of vulnerable people die if it meant we could just get back to work.

And Johnson has actually taken it back into public ownership.[emoji23]


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[Ozyhibby]

Im sure you know that the primaries are chosen on the basis of votes of DNC delegates. Based on your politics I’m sure you’re not a Michael Moore fan. but his recent Fahrenheit 11/7 gives a good account of the chicanery that goes on, usually against the wishes of actual Dem voters in blue collar districts.

Sanders would have walked the rust belt states.

I actually enjoy his documentaries.


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[calumhibee1]

Oh I see, you mean the actual word ‘assault’. Well yes you’re right in that case but I think we’re splitting hairs. My point was yes, to confirm there are accusations against both men.

Any news on the senate?

I’m not sure the difference between sexual harrsssment/sexual impropriety - in Bidens case weirdly touching a woman’s hair/shoulders etc and sexual assault - allegedly penetrating a woman with his fingers while having her up against the wall against her consent - should ever be played down as ‘splitting hairs’ to be honest.

One thing I will agree on is that Trump is a creep. I would however also say the exact same about Biden.

[Keith_M]

Thanks for the responses to my question (well, maybe with the exception of the one from that German Wally).


I had a look online for specific articles on the accusations and found THIS (https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-allegations-women-2020-campaign-2019-6?r=US&IR=T) one.

"In March 2020, former Senate aide Tara Reade alleged that Biden sexually assaulted her while she worked for his office in 1993. Biden has unequivocally denied assaulting or harassing Reade.

Eight women, including Reade, have accused Biden of touching them inappropriately or invading their personal space in ways that made them feel uncomfortable. Seven of the women said Biden's behavior did not amount to sexual harassment or assault."

(I added the bold highlight)

'Invading their personal space' is so vague that it's quite laughable, TBH. There's a young woman at my work that once said that to me and a colleague because we were standing chatting (about work) a few feet from her desk. Trust me, neither of us have ever had any desire to 'invade her personal space', however you want to interpret that.

The one from Reade seems to be, on the surface, a more serious accusation. It's a shame, for whatever reason, she never said anything at the time as things like that are so hard to prove, especially twenty years later.

[Rumble de Thump]

I would have voted for Biden, however surely by the same logic anyone that voted for Biden is willing to turn a blind eye to predators?

This post didn't offer the kind of balance you seem to be expecting from other people.

[calumhibee1]

This post didn't offer the kind of balance you seem to be expecting from other people.

The post I quoted provided the balance.

[Smartie]

And Johnson has actually taken it back into public ownership.[emoji23]


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Has he?

I missed that.

[Bristolhibby]

It doesn't help that the churches over there are pushing the view that Trump is a "man of God" because he's against abortion and for Isreal. His character is excused as 'his mistakes are in the past'.

Shows how warped America is. The old trope but, What Would Jesus Do?

Can you imagine him siding with Trumps policies? It’s perverse to link Trump to being Godly. It’s an affront to people who follow the teachings of Christ.

(Speaking as an atheist, mind).

Have always liked Bill & Teds philosophy, “Be Excellent to each other”.

J

[Rumble de Thump]

The post I quoted provided the balance.

So your post people were responding to, in which you were responding to another post, offered balance.

[calumhibee1]

So your post people were responding to, in which you were responding to another post, offered balance.

The post I quoted suggested if you voted for Trump then you’re willing to overlook racism. I pointed out that by that logic, for balance, you must be overlooking what Biden has done to vote for him.

Simple really.

[hibsbollah]

The post I quoted suggested if you voted for Trump then you’re willing to overlook racism. I pointed out that by that logic, for balance, you must be overlooking what Biden has done to vote for him.

Simple really.

Instead of going down a rabbit hole of who said what and who meant what, can you provide a link to the Biden assault allegations so we can judge how substantial they are and what the source is? And then move on?

[Rumble de Thump]

The post I quoted suggested if you voted for Trump then you’re willing to overlook racism. I pointed out that by that logic, for balance, you must be overlooking what Biden has done to vote for him.

Simple really.

It didn't mention the various sexual assualt allegations against Trump or him boasting about grabbing women by the vaginas. That would have been genuine balance.

[Sergio sledge]

Instead of going down a rabbit hole of who said what and who meant what, can you provide a link to the Biden assault allegations so we can judge how substantial they are and what the source is? And then move on?

I know wikipedia isn't always the most reliable source, but this seems to be the allegations the OP is referring to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_assault_allegation

It is such a difficult one as it is simply one persons word against anothers but, based on what I've read on wikipedia, there are enough doubts about the accusers credibility for me to think that this likely didn't happen.

Whilst Biden certainly seems very handsy and often inappropriately so IMHO, I don't think he can be at all compared to Trump and I certainly don't think people can call him a "predator" as the OP did. There's certainly no evidence of that at all IMHO.

[Hibbyradge]

I would have voted for Biden, however surely by the same logic anyone that voted for Biden is willing to turn a blind eye to predators?

That's a very honest admission, Calum, and it shows the level of contempt you have for Donald Trump.

However, I doubt that many other people would agree that that's what they were doing.

[stokesmessiah]

I know wikipedia isn't always the most reliable source, but this seems to be the allegations the OP is referring to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_assault_allegation

It is such a difficult one as it is simply one persons word against anothers but, based on what I've read on wikipedia, there are enough doubts about the accusers credibility for me to think that this likely didn't happen.

Whilst Biden certainly seems very handsy and often inappropriately so IMHO, I don't think he can be at all compared to Trump and I certainly don't think people can call him a "predator" as the OP did. There's certainly no evidence of that at all IMHO.

Wait...Wikipedia was the source?

[AltheHibby]

Some of the churches.

Should have made that clear.

I know a lot of otherwise sensible people who are voting Trump but who would never consider voting Tory over here.

[WhileTheChief..]

The post I quoted suggested if you voted for Trump then you’re willing to overlook racism. I pointed out that by that logic, for balance, you must be overlooking what Biden has done to vote for him.

Simple really.

I’d have voted for Trump.

I wouldn’t be overlooking racism at all though. I’d vote for him cause he’s Republican and there not a chance in hell I’d vote for the Democrats.

Check the history of racism in the US, predominantly down to the Democrats but conveniently ignored now.

[One Day Soon]

The difference between Trump and Biden in office - assuming it happens - will be night and day. To suggest that all he amounts to is a 'stop Trump' candidate is ridiculous.

You may not agree with his positions, think they are too weak or think there are not enough of them, but he does have a programme and it is very different from Trump's.

Biden: https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

[Keith_M]

...

Check the history of racism in the US, predominantly down to the Democrats but conveniently ignored now.


But anyone voting now is not choosing who's going to be President 100 years ago.

It's like saying South Africa is an evil country because they used to have apartheid, or the Germans are all Nazis because, you know, the war and all that.

[Sergio sledge]

Wait...Wikipedia was the source?

I don't know if it was the OP's source, but its the first thing I found when I googled it (I hadn't heard of it before today).

[WhileTheChief..]

Civil Rights Act was mid 60s and there were an awful lot more Democrats voted against it than Republicans.

Not sure when it suddenly changed that anyone voting Republican is racist? Was it just since Trump?

It’s a nonsense argument anyway. 70m racists in America - that’s quite a claim!

[weecounty hibby]

Civil Rights Act was mid 60s and there were an awful lot more Democrats voted against it than Republicans.

Not sure when it suddenly changed that anyone voting Republican is racist? Was it just since Trump?

It’s a nonsense argument anyone. 70m racists in America - that’s quite a claim!
I don't think I've seen anyone arguing that. I don't for a minute believe everyone who voted for him is a racist. I believe that he is though, and misogynistic, and a liar, and a narcissist, and he also has questions to be asked about Russia, Epstein, he has a number of sexual assault claims against him, he is a global warming denier, a science denier, a child who always wants his own way.
Would I have voted for Biden, absolutely. Is he the best America has to offer, no. Was he the best bet to get rid of Trump? It looks like it

[calumhibee1]

That's a very honest admission, Calum, and it shows the level of contempt you have for Donald Trump.

However, I doubt that many other people would agree that that's what they were doing.

And that’s my point. The post I quoted was suggesting that anyone voting for Trump is turning a blind eye to racism which I’d say is nonsense. Much the same way as suggesting anyone voting Biden is willing to overlook his own issues which I’d also say is nonsense.

[hibsbollah]

And that’s my point. The post I quoted was suggesting that anyone voting for Trump is turning a blind eye to racism which I’d say is nonsense. Much the same way as suggesting anyone voting Biden is willing to overlook his own issues which I’d also say is nonsense.

Your logic is flawed. If you vote for a candidate who is demonstrably pandering to racism, again and again, you are obviously, turning a blind eye to it :dunno: Of course you are. I don’t see how this is even arguable :dunno:

As to the Biden assault thing, I just haven’t seen sufficient evidence to say his behaviour is in any way comparable to Trumps mysogny. Again, put up a link so we can make a judgement.

[Kato]

I’d have voted for Trump.

I wouldn’t be overlooking racism at all though. I’d vote for him cause he’s Republican and there not a chance in hell I’d vote for the Democrats.

Check the history of racism in the US, predominantly down to the Democrats but conveniently ignored now.I suppose all those dead racists are a very good reason for voting for the existing one, or something.

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[Hibrandenburg]

Thanks for the responses to my question (well, maybe with the exception of the one from that German Wally).


I had a look online for specific articles on the accusations and found THIS (https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-allegations-women-2020-campaign-2019-6?r=US&IR=T) one.

"In March 2020, former Senate aide Tara Reade alleged that Biden sexually assaulted her while she worked for his office in 1993. Biden has unequivocally denied assaulting or harassing Reade.

Eight women, including Reade, have accused Biden of touching them inappropriately or invading their personal space in ways that made them feel uncomfortable. Seven of the women said Biden's behavior did not amount to sexual harassment or assault."

(I added the bold highlight)

'Invading their personal space' is so vague that it's quite laughable, TBH. There's a young woman at my work that once said that to me and a colleague because we were standing chatting (about work) a few feet from her desk. Trust me, neither of us have ever had any desire to 'invade her personal space', however you want to interpret that.

The one from Reade seems to be, on the surface, a more serious accusation. It's a shame, for whatever reason, she never said anything at the time as things like that are so hard to prove, especially twenty years later.

Thanks for the mention in dispatches. :greengrin

It also needs to be mentioned that Reade appears to be a serial liar.

[Since90+2]

I'm genuinely baffled how anyone could vote for Trump. It's clear as day to me that the guy is a lunatic and I'm actually fearful of what could happen if he gets another 4 years.

I was also baffled that a majority of voters voted for Brexit. And Boris Johnson and this version of the Tories

Maybe I'm the crazy one.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't think I've seen anyone arguing that. I don't for a minute believe everyone who voted for him is a racist. I believe that he is though, and misogynistic, and a liar, and a narcissist, and he also has questions to be asked about Russia, Epstein, he has a number of sexual assault claims against him, he is a global warming denier, a science denier, a child who always wants his own way.
Would I have voted for Biden, absolutely. Is he the best America has to offer, no. Was he the best bet to get rid of Trump? It looks like it

I don’t disagree with you but there’s been plenty chat in recent years that anyone voting for Trump or Johnson is racist.

It’s BS and totally insulting to swathes of each countries populations.

[Kato]

I'm genuinely baffled how anyone could vote for Trump. It's clear as day to me that the guy is a lunatic and I'm actually fearful of what could happen if he gets another 4 years.

I was also baffled that a majority of voters voted for Brexit. And Boris Johnson and this version of the Tories

Maybe I'm the crazy one.It's the last gasp of old capitalist values kicking in before climate change ****s us all. The racism, gas-lighting, grandstanding and "strong leader " antics are all a distraction, whilst the money laundering and cronyism goes on in the background.

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[calumhibee1]

Your logic is flawed. If you vote for a candidate who is demonstrably pandering to racism, again and again, you are obviously, turning a blind eye to it :dunno: Of course you are. I don’t see how this is even arguable :dunno:

As to the Biden assault thing, I just haven’t seen sufficient evidence to say his behaviour is in any way comparable to Trumps mysogny. Again, put up a link so we can make a judgement.

In that case people just shouldn’t be voting unless the candidate has demonstrated impeccable behaviour their entire life or else you’re turning a blind eye to something or other. Usually in America that seems to be either racism or of a sexual nature.

Other than Obama I’d hazard a guess that would rule out every single president in my life time.

You keep asking me for a link - I’m sure you can use Google. The allegations against Biden aren’t a secret so there’s plenty material for you to dig through should you wish.

[calumhibee1]

I'm genuinely baffled how anyone could vote for Trump. It's clear as day to me that the guy is a lunatic and I'm actually fearful of what could happen if he gets another 4 years.

I was also baffled that a majority of voters voted for Brexit. And Boris Johnson and this version of the Tories

Maybe I'm the crazy one.

:agree:

You do sometimes wonder if it’s you that holds the obscure view when these kind of people/parties get voted in. I suppose on a way you do if the majority are voting for them.

[Mon Dieu4]

I don’t disagree with you but there’s been plenty chat in recent years that anyone voting for Trump or Johnson is racist.

It’s BS and totally insulting to swathes of each countries populations.

Maybe they aren't rascist but clearly racism isn't a deal breaker for them when voting for said people

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm genuinely baffled how anyone could vote for Trump. It's clear as day to me that the guy is a lunatic and I'm actually fearful of what could happen if he gets another 4 years.

I was also baffled that a majority of voters voted for Brexit. And Boris Johnson and this version of the Tories

Maybe I'm the crazy one.

Not crazy, just that some people see things differently. Nothing wrong with that.

Fearful of what?

What are these atrocities that have happened the last 4 years?

Im not talking about his behaviour, Twitter or type of man he is, but actual actions that the US has taken that have been so awful or different to under Obama?

First time around everyone was predicting the end of the world. Things aren’t so bad.

[Ozyhibby]

I don’t disagree with you but there’s been plenty chat in recent years that anyone voting for Trump or Johnson is racist.

It’s BS and totally insulting to swathes of each countries populations.

You don’t have to be a racist to support Trump but all the racists are supporting Trump.


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[JeMeSouviens]

50K votes left to count in Georgia - Biden's deficit 18K, so he needs 34K or 68%. Just about possible because they're mainly in the city of Atlanta I think.

[calumhibee1]

Maybe they aren't rascist but clearly racism isn't a deal breaker for them when voting for said people

Joe Biden doesn’t have a spotless past when it comes to race as well.

I suppose you could say the same for every American that voted for one or the other yesterday in that case.

[hibsbollah]

In that case people just shouldn’t be voting unless the candidate has demonstrated impeccable behaviour their entire life or else you’re turning a blind eye to something or other. Usually in America that seems to be either racism or of a sexual nature.

Other than Obama I’d hazard a guess that would rule out every single president in my life time.

You keep asking me for a link - I’m sure you can use Google. The allegations against Biden aren’t a secret so there’s plenty material for you to dig through should you wish.

It’s nothing to do with ‘impeccable behaviour their entire life’ :dunno: It’s about not being explicitly, repeatedly racist and mysoginistic again and again, throughout the 4 years of his presidency. If you vote for someone like that, you’re pandering to that behaviour. You’ve shown me no evidence Biden shows even remotely that kind of behaviour, and there’s no evidence I can see online to demonstrate proof of that kind of behaviour. So I’ll have to conclude there isn’t any. If you’re going to insinuate double standards you’ll have to do better than that.

When you vote for a candidate to lead your country, there is some sort of expectation that they would represent the values that you hold as being important. I’m sure you agree?

[Keith_M]

Thanks for the mention in dispatches. :greengrin
....

Always a pleasure :wink:



...

It also needs to be mentioned that Reade appears to be a serial liar.


Cheers.

In which case, the case against Biden seems to be getting flimsier by the minute.


It's a really difficult thing to judge all these claims that come up directly before elections, as they appear to be very politically motivated.

[One Day Soon]

Joe Biden has a murky past when it comes to race issues as well.

I suppose you could say the same for every American that voted for one or the other yesterday in that case.


There are no perfect candidates, for anything anywhere. These are humans not angels. That's where their actual policy programmes come in.

I guess it partly comes down to what you actually believe about a candidate, I believe Trump is a racist, a criminal and quite probably a Russian asset. I do not believe Biden is guilty of the charges levelled at him.

Even if I believed the accusations made of both candidates I would still be faced with deciding between the two if I want my vote to have any influence given that it is a binary choice and one of the two will win.

[Betty Boop]

Biden was the architect of the 'war on drugs' and 'mass incarceration' .

[calumhibee1]

It’s nothing to do with ‘impeccable behaviour their entire life’ :dunno: It’s about not being explicitly, repeatedly racist, again and again, throughout the 4 years of his presidency. If you vote for someone like that, you’re pandering to that behaviour. You’ve shown me no evidence Biden shows even remotely that kind of behaviour, and there’s no evidence I can see online to demonstrate proof of that kind of behaviour. So I’ll have to conclude there isn’t any. If you’re going to insinuate double standards you’ll have to do better than that.

When you vote for a candidate to lead your country, there is some sort of expectation that they would represent the values that you hold as being important. I’m sure you agree?

The discussion we’ve been having is regarding the sexual allegations, not racism. So I’m not quite sure why you’ve jumped from one to the other.

However, the sexual allegations, there’s masses of material on it, so I don’t believe for a second you can’t find anything.

If it’s regarding racism which you seem to have jumped to, his remarks on Obama are a good start -

“..the first mainstream African American who is articulate, bright and clean” which he had to come out and apologise for.

Or his comments on Indians while senator of Delaware -

“In Delaware the largest growth in population is Indian Americans,” Biden said. “You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking.”

He was also heavily for, as Betty Boop posted, mass incarceration which has disproportionately effected black lives negatively.

[Keith_M]

There seems to be a number of journalists whose whole belief system is currently falling apart because so many more Black people, Hispanics and Females are voting for Trump.

The Guardian's Marina Hyde seemed quite shocked by the concept in her article yesterday and I've just seen similar in the Herald and the Daily Record.

It just shows the danger of letting your own prejudices run riot when jumping to conclusions about other people.

[CropleyWasGod]

Biden was the architect of the 'war on drugs' and 'mass incarceration' .

He has stepped back a lot in his attitudes towards the WOD

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/joe-biden-town-hall-abc-crime-bill-legalize-drugs-trump-b1060889.html

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/ceb5a484262c9891701465e2c5eadada.jpg

Strange request given he’s behind in enough states for a Biden win.


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[Ozyhibby]

He has stepped back a lot in his attitudes towards the WOD

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/joe-biden-town-hall-abc-crime-bill-legalize-drugs-trump-b1060889.html

He has stepped back on both issues.
Tuesday was a good day for drug legalisation in the states. [emoji106]


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[Keith_M]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/ceb5a484262c9891701465e2c5eadada.jpg

Strange request given he’s behind in enough states for a Biden win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'd be happy enough to go along with that and for him to be declared as The Loser

:greengrin

[calumhibee1]

There are no perfect candidates, for anything anywhere. These are humans not angels. That's where their actual policy programmes come in.

I guess it partly comes down to what you actually believe about a candidate, I believe Trump is a racist, a criminal and quite probably a Russian asset. I do not believe Biden is guilty of the charges levelled at him.

Even if I believed the accusations made of both candidates I would still be faced with deciding between the two if I want my vote to have any influence given that it is a binary choice and one of the two will win.

I agree. Which brings us back to the post I quoted which started all this which suggested that if you voted for Trump that you’re racist or at least accepting of it which I don’t think is fair. Both candidates have a shady past, whether one is worse than the other is irrelevant. It doesn’t mean you’re accepting of whatever they’ve done though, it means that regardless of these things you think they’re the best person to lead the country.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/38b0e3d0cf64a7f940a5da43c25b9fe0.jpg


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/2020-exit-polls-warnings-democrats.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Biden winning the centre ground carried him over the line.


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[hibsbollah]

The discussion we’ve been having is regarding the sexual allegations, not racism. So I’m not quite sure why you’ve jumped from one to the other.

However, the sexual allegations, there’s masses of material on it, so I don’t believe for a second you can’t find anything.

If it’s regarding racism which you seem to have jumped to, his remarks on Obama are a good start -

“..the first mainstream African American who is articulate, bright and clean” which he had to come out and apologise for.

Or his comments on Indians while senator of Delaware -

“In Delaware the largest growth in population is Indian Americans,” Biden said. “You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking.”

He was also heavily for, as Betty Boop posted, mass incarceration which has disproportionately effected black lives negatively.

The discussion we are having is about values and standards of behaviour, so both racism and sexism are relevant. As is trying to subvert the democratic process by refusing to accept the results of an election.

It’s actually easier to give me a link to a reputable website, not sure why you’re cut n pasting but I trust your evidence in this case. I haven’t seen those quotes before.

If you feel that’s evidence he’s just the same as Trump, that’s obviously a matter for you. Personally it doesn’t seem that way to me.

[Kato]

Biden was the architect of the 'war on drugs' and 'mass incarceration' .That began under Reagan. Was he part of that administration to the point he was the architect of it?

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[calumhibee1]

The discussion we are having is about values and standards of behaviour, so both racism and sexism are relevant.

It’s actually easier to give me a link to a reputable website, not sure why you’re cut n pasting but I trust your evidence in this case. I haven’t seen those quotes before.

If you feel that’s evidence he’s just the same as Trump, that’s obviously a matter for you. Personally it doesn’t seem that way to me.

If you think it’s easier to post numerous times on a forum asking for a link to something that’s so readily available rather than use Google then that’s on you, I’m not doing the leg work for you on something that’s so easy to find.

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1895156_1894977_1644536,00.html there’s actually apparently 10 comments from Biden on that link but I only looked at and quoted the first two.

With regards to him being the same as Trump, I’ve never said that. This whole thing came about because your post suggested that the worst thing Joe Biden has committed is sexual impropriety where as Trump has committed sexual assault when in reality they’ve both been accused of sexual assault.

[Betty Boop]

That began under Reagan. Was he part of that administration to the point he was the architect of it?

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https://theintercept.com/2019/09/17/the-untold-story-joe-biden-pushed-ronald-reagan-to-ramp-up-incarceration-not-the-other-way-around/

[hibsbollah]

If you think it’s easier to post numerous times on a forum asking for a link to something that’s so readily available rather than use Google then that’s on you, I’m not doing the leg work for you on something that’s so easy to find.

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1895156_1894977_1644536,00.html there’s actually apparently 10 comments from Biden on that link but I only looked at and quoted the first two.

With regards to him being the same as Trump, I’ve never said that. This whole thing came about because your post suggested that the worst thing Joe Biden has committed is sexual impropriety where as Trump has committed sexual assault when in reality they’ve both been accused of sexual assault.

Im sure we’re all wiser for the thread going in such an interesting direction.

[Hibrandenburg]

The discussion we are having is about values and standards of behaviour, so both racism and sexism are relevant. As is trying to subvert the democratic process by refusing to accept the results of an election.

It’s actually easier to give me a link to a reputable website, not sure why you’re cut n pasting but I trust your evidence in this case. I haven’t seen those quotes before.

If you feel that’s evidence he’s just the same as Trump, that’s obviously a matter for you. Personally it doesn’t seem that way to me.

Because posting links would allow you to check the credibility of the claims being made on them. But I suspect that you already are aware of that.

A quick fact check can dispel most of these types of claims, that's why the mantra of the deluded has now changed from actually backing up their claims with dubious sources and they now ask you to carry out the Sisyphus job of trying to confirm or dispel the claims they make.

Me personally, I've given up debating with pigeons.

[JeMeSouviens]

I agree. Which brings us back to the post I quoted which started all this which suggested that if you voted for Trump that you’re racist or at least accepting of it which I don’t think is fair. Both candidates have a shady past, whether one is worse than the other is irrelevant. It doesn’t mean you’re accepting of whatever they’ve done though, it means that regardless of these things you think they’re the best person to lead the country.

The best of the 2 available. :agree:

You have to be pragmatic about these things, imo. It's why the f'ing Lib Dems are such a waste of time/space/votes/paper/carbon emissions.

[Kato]

https://theintercept.com/2019/09/17/the-untold-story-joe-biden-pushed-ronald-reagan-to-ramp-up-incarceration-not-the-other-way-around/Thanks interesting. It also seems he has deep regrets about that strategy.


It's almost like he's a non-psychopath capable of reflection.

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[JeMeSouviens]

Biden looking stronger and stronger in Pennsylvania. That one looks nailed on for the Dems now and gets them over the 270 winning line.

Just want a couple more to make the legal challenges look futile.

[calumhibee1]

Because posting links would allow you to check the credibility of the claims being made on them. But I suspect that you already are aware of that.

A quick fact check can dispel most of these types of claims, that's why the mantra of the deluded has now changed from actually backing up their claims with dubious sources and they now ask you to carry out the Sisyphus job of trying to confirm or dispel the claims they make.

Me personally, I've given up debating with pigeons.

Ah you’ll be gutted that I posted a link to the quotes afterwards then. Awkward.

Anyway, I’ve had a good hunt and funnily enough there’s no fact check that dispels the fact that Biden has been accused of sexual assault, sexual impropriety or made the remarks I mentioned about Obama and Indians.

Even more awkward.

[calumhibee1]

Im sure we’re all wiser for the thread going in such an interesting direction.

We are, thanks for taking it that way.

[BS44]

Nevada expecting to call their result at 5pm according to LBC

Also said that Trump is catching up in Arizona? Thought that was practically in the bag

[JeMeSouviens]

In other news - the senate is not totally done yet.

Dems have 48. It looks like both Georgia seats might end up in a run off (you have to get 50%+ of the vote under Georgia's rules to win, a plurality won't do). So theoretically they could still tie at 50-50 (and have the casting vote if Biden is pres) by winning both run offs in January. I guess that's still a pretty tall order but ...

[JeMeSouviens]

Nevada expecting to call their result at 5pm according to LBC

Also said that Trump is catching up in Arizona? Thought that was practically in the bag

In a reversal of practically everywhere else, Trump is doing better in the postal votes.

You now have the surreal scenario of Republican protestors chanting "count the votes" in AZ, while chanting "stop the count" everywhere else. :rolleyes:

[JeMeSouviens]

Here they are - https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1324355232021815298?s=20

You don't like my principles? I have others ...

[Bristolhibby]

Biden looking stronger and stronger in Pennsylvania. That one looks nailed on for the Dems now and gets them over the 270 winning line.

Just want a couple more to make the legal challenges look futile.

Yip, they get that, Biden is in.

Just count!

J

[hibsbollah]

In other news - the senate is not totally done yet.

Dems have 48. It looks like both Georgia seats might end up in a run off (you have to get 50%+ of the vote under Georgia's rules to win, a plurality won't do). So theoretically they could still tie at 50-50 (and have the casting vote if Biden is pres) by winning both run offs in January. I guess that's still a pretty tall order but ...

Absolutely vital how the senate goes. I’m hearing differing opinions as to whether a Biden presidency could hook back into the Paris accords without senate approval...

[Hibrandenburg]

Ah you’ll be gutted that I posted a link to the quotes afterwards then. Awkward.

Anyway, I’ve had a good hunt and funnily enough there’s no fact check that dispels the fact that Biden has been accused of sexual assault, sexual impropriety or made the remarks I mentioned about Obama and Indians.

Even more awkward.

Not awkward at all. The Indian quote you mention is only part of what Biden said, I see you failed to mention the whole quote and story behind it.

Similar, I see very little wrong with his Obama quote other than a bad choice of words that has been jumped on by right wing apologists. It's perfectly easy to see what he really meant unless you're actually looking to find something that's really not there. Comparing that to the blatantly racist comments made by Trump is simply put ridiculous.

[calumhibee1]

Not awkward at all. The Indian quote you mention is only part of what Biden said, I see you failed to mention the whole quote and story behind it.

Similar, I see very little wrong with his Obama quote other than a bad choice of words that has been jumped on by right wing apologists. It's perfectly easy to see what he really meant unless you're actually looking to find something that's really not there. Comparing that to the blatantly racist comments made by Trump is simply put ridiculous.

Thinks 50m+ Americans are racist by association

Doesn’t think Biden is racist for suggesting there’d never been an intelligent, bright mainstream black man before Obama.

Ok pal.

[Hibrandenburg]

Thinks 50m+ Americans are racist by association

Doesn’t think Biden is racist for suggesting there’d never been an intelligent, bright mainstream black man before Obama.

Ok pal.

Did he really think that? How outraged was Obama with joe? Was he intending to insult black people or was it a slip of the tongue?

Again, compared to Trump's blatant racist and misogynistic outbursts aimed at gaining support from racists, Biden's remarks are dwarfed.

[calumhibee1]

Did he really think that? How outraged was Obama with joe? Was he intending to insult black people or was it a slip of the tongue?

Again, compared to Trump's blatant racist and misogynistic outbursts aimed at gaining support from racists, Biden's remarks are dwarfed.

Did he really think that? Are you seriously asking that? I’d suggest if he didn’t think that then he shouldn’t have said it. I’m sure I’d be offered the same lame excuses if I start spouting racist *****.

“Give the guy a break, we’re not sure if he even means it. It might just have been a slip of the tongue.” What a crock of *****. If I was to go up to a black person and tell them “you’re quite intelligent for a black person” I’d suggest my racist ‘compliment’ would quite rightly see me get punched in the face. And nobody would be willing to accept that I didn’t actually mean what I said or that it was a slip of the tongue.

This isn’t a competition about who said/done worse. If by voting for Trump you’re either racist or accepting of his racist outbursts as you’ve suggested of a huge chunk of the population of the US (and I’m sure a couple posters on here actually) then you’re doing the exact same thing by voting
/supporting Joe Biden, regardless of the amount of times or the severity of what each of them said/did.

Of course the idea that everybody who votes for Trump, or Biden for that matter is racist or accepting of racism is nonsense however.

[CropleyWasGod]

Did he really think that? Are you seriously asking that? I’d suggest if he didn’t think that then he shouldn’t have said it. I’m sure I’d be offered the same lame excuses if I start spouting racist *****.

“Give the guy a break, we’re not sure if he even means it. It might just have been a slip of the tongue.” What a crock of *****. If I was to go up to a black person and tell them “you’re quite intelligent for a black person” I’d suggest my racist ‘compliment’ would quite rightly see me get punched in the face. And nobody would be willing to accept that I didn’t actually mean what I said or that it was a slip of the tongue.

This isn’t a competition about who said/done worse. If by voting for Trump you’re either racist or accepting of his racist outbursts as you’ve suggested of a huge chunk of the population of the US (and I’m sure a couple posters on here actually) then you’re doing the exact same thing by voting
/supporting Joe Biden, regardless of the amount of times or the severity of what each of them said/did.

The difference, as I see it, is that Biden is capable of changing his mind and attitude about things (ref his change of mind on the WOD), whereas Trump seems unable or unwilling to. Whether his casual racism has been modified (and, tbf, you'd expect that it had been after working with Obama for 8 years), we don't know for sure, but at least one should give him some leeway in judgement.

[hibsbollah]

Georgia has 60,000 votes to count, Trump has an 18,000 vote lead but tightening. Could be news from Nevada and the 270 mark in the next couple of hours. I actually can’t wait to potentially see the back of him.

[degenerated]

Who pays for Trumps legal fees.Who gets custody of Nigel Farage if he loses?

[MWHIBBIES]

Not crazy, just that some people see things differently. Nothing wrong with that.

Fearful of what?

What are these atrocities that have happened the last 4 years?

Im not talking about his behaviour, Twitter or type of man he is, but actual actions that the US has taken that have been so awful or different to under Obama?

First time around everyone was predicting the end of the world. Things aren’t so bad.

Eh, it's probably about as bad as a presidency can go without actually starting a nuclear war.

Economy in shambles.
Disbanded a pandemic response group set up by Obama
Handled the pandemic terribly
Put 3 judges on the supreme court, none of whom will vote to move the country forward on vital issues (imo ofc)
Left the Paris climate accord
Many of his officials and advisors been indicted
Massive riots stemming from bigotry and racism, something he refuses to condemn
Russian involvement
Caused a huge divide in the country, something that will take years to heal
Embarrassed and disgraced the office of President
Mocked dead veterans


Probably many more important things I've missed out. Trump is easily the worst president America has had. I'd struggle to name one even remotely positive thing he has done. Jimmy Carter was considered a big failure as president and even then he done many positive things, like established the department of education and department of energy.

[Bostonhibby]

Who gets custody of Nigel Farage if he loses?Don't know about custody but half an hour and a very big boxing glove should be enough.

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[calumhibee1]

Eh, it's probably about as bad as a presidency can go without actually starting a nuclear war.

Economy in shambles.
Disbanded a pandemic response group set up by Obama
Handled the pandemic terribly
Put 3 judges on the supreme court, none of whom will vote to move the country forward on vital issues (imo ofc)
Left the Paris climate accord
Many of his officials and advisors been indicted
Massive riots stemming from bigotry and racism, something he refuses to condemn
Russian involvement
Caused a huge divide in the country, something that will take years to heal
Embarrassed and disgraced the office of President
Mocked dead veterans


Probably many more important things I've missed out. Trump is easily the worst president America has had. I'd struggle to name one even remotely positive thing he has done. Jimmy Carter was considered a big failure as president and even then he done many positive things, like established the department of education and department of energy.

:agree:

When Trump got elected I said I didn’t think it would be nearly as bad as was being made out.

For the first 2 years or so I’d have said that was the case to an extent. What a **** show the last couple of years has been though.

Thankfully it appears to be over.

[Keith_M]

Is Sleepy Joe over the line yet, or is he having a wee nap?

[MWHIBBIES]

Eh, it's probably about as bad as a presidency can go without actually starting a nuclear war.

Economy in shambles.
Disbanded a pandemic response group set up by Obama
Handled the pandemic terribly
Put 3 judges on the supreme court, none of whom will vote to move the country forward on vital issues (imo ofc)
Left the Paris climate accord
Many of his officials and advisors been indicted
Massive riots stemming from bigotry and racism, something he refuses to condemn
Russian involvement
Caused a huge divide in the country, something that will take years to heal
Embarrassed and disgraced the office of President
Mocked dead veterans


Probably many more important things I've missed out. Trump is easily the worst president America has had. I'd struggle to name one even remotely positive thing he has done. Jimmy Carter was considered a big failure as president and even then he done many positive things, like established the department of education and department of energy.

To add to this, many presidents have used their weight for positive things after their term was up. Again using Carter as an example, he has fought and even helped to eradicate some horrible diseases through his work with the carter center. When trump's time is up he will use his platform to cause further division and anger.

[Since90+2]

To add to this, many presidents have used their weight for positive things after their term was up. Again using Carter as an example, he has fought and even helped to eradicate some horrible diseases through his work with the carter center. When trump's time is up he will use his platform to cause further division and anger.

When his time is up he's probably going to find out what the inside of a cell looks like.

[MWHIBBIES]

When his time is up he's probably going to find out what the inside of a cell looks like.
I very much hope so. Sadly, I doubt we'll even scratch the surface of the horrible things he has done.

[Hibrandenburg]

Did he really think that? Are you seriously asking that? I’d suggest if he didn’t think that then he shouldn’t have said it. I’m sure I’d be offered the same lame excuses if I start spouting racist *****.

“Give the guy a break, we’re not sure if he even means it. It might just have been a slip of the tongue.” What a crock of *****. If I was to go up to a black person and tell them “you’re quite intelligent for a black person” I’d suggest my racist ‘compliment’ would quite rightly see me get punched in the face. And nobody would be willing to accept that I didn’t actually mean what I said or that it was a slip of the tongue.

This isn’t a competition about who said/done worse. If by voting for Trump you’re either racist or accepting of his racist outbursts as you’ve suggested of a huge chunk of the population of the US (and I’m sure a couple posters on here actually) then you’re doing the exact same thing by voting
/supporting Joe Biden, regardless of the amount of times or the severity of what each of them said/did.

Of course the idea that everybody who votes for Trump, or Biden for that matter is racist or accepting of racism is nonsense however.

If you can't see the difference between deliberate hateful remarks that are intended to provoke made by a man who courts the white supremacist vote and that Trump still hasn't even attempted to apologise for and some off the cuff remarks that can be interpreted as racist and were apologised for by Biden and accepted by Obama who had and still have a fantastic relationship with one another, then I guess you just don't want to understand the difference.

Getting involved in this discussion was an error and deviation from what I'd promised myself not to do. I'll back out now and let you go back to cooing in your dovecote.

[weecounty hibby]

Who gets custody of Nigel Farage if he loses?

Sadly he just comes back to this side of the Atlantic and continues with his snappy brand of xenophobic racism.
Custody is what I'd like to see him get though

[One Day Soon]

Who gets custody of Nigel Farage if he loses?

Very, very good.

[blaikie]

Trump confirming that he will take all recent states to court which Biden is ahead/winning.

Nut job Trump campaign staff on sky news just now, this ain’t going to end well.

[Callum_62]

Trump confirming that he will take all recent states to court which Biden is ahead/winning.

Nut job Trump campaign staff on sky news just now, this ain’t going to end well.Hahaha, so he thinks it's a fraud across the board and he should have a clean sweep at the electoral college?

The moment he knew he was likely to lose was when he stood up through the night and said this election is a fraud. He was winning at that point.

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[Callum_62]

Trump confirming that he will take all recent states to court which Biden is ahead/winning.

Nut job Trump campaign staff on sky news just now, this ain’t going to end well.I laugh but in all seriousness trump is throwing matches and petrol and a tinderbox situation

I wonder when or if some republicans will start coming out publically against him

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[Since90+2]

I laugh but in all seriousness trump is throwing matches and petrol and a tinderbox situation

I wonder when or if some republicans will strat coming out publically against him

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They won't until they are sure he can't win. As soon as that happens I suspect (hope) you will see Republicans start to desert him.

[Hibrandenburg]

Trump confirming that he will take all recent states to court which Biden is ahead/winning.

Nut job Trump campaign staff on sky news just now, this ain’t going to end well.

Really really creepy bunch of weirdos.

[One Day Soon]

They won't until they are sure he can't win. As soon as that happens I suspect (hope) you will see Republicans start to desert him.


They will. Biden at 270 or more turns Trump into the Hindenberg and Republicans won't want to go down with that conflagration.

[calumhibee1]

If you can't see the difference between deliberate hateful remarks that are intended to provoke made by a man who courts the white supremacist vote and that Trump still hasn't even attempted to apologise for and some off the cuff remarks that can be interpreted as racist and were apologised for by Biden and accepted by Obama who had and still have a fantastic relationship with one another, then I guess you just don't want to understand the difference.

Getting involved in this discussion was an error and deviation from what I'd promised myself not to do. I'll back out now and let you go back to cooing in your dovecote.

Keep trying to justify his racist remarks to yourself. Using someone as subhuman as Trump as a yard stick for doing that is incredible really.

[SHODAN]

I think Trump is going to just about hang on to Georgia and the whole charade will be drawn out even further.

[Sir David Gray]

BBC have it 253-214 to Biden now after Wisconsin goes to him.

[Callum_62]

BBC have it 253-214 to Biden now after Wisconsin goes to him.Are BBC not counting, I think, Arizona

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[GlesgaeHibby]

Trump confirming that he will take all recent states to court which Biden is ahead/winning.

Nut job Trump campaign staff on sky news just now, this ain’t going to end well.

But not ones where he is ahead or winning, or those that he might sneak a win in? Of course, that will make total sense to his supporters. Can't wait to see the back of this clown.

[Callum_62]

I think Trump is going to just about hang on to Georgia and the whole charade will be drawn out even further.Toight! 99percent counted https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/5b9891c7d342d503917d4edbd79d7f0a.jpg

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[GlesgaeHibby]

Biden extends his lead to 12,000 in Nevada.

[Mon Dieu4]

BBC have it 253-214 to Biden now after Wisconsin goes to him.

Arizona and Nevada would get Biden to 270 without the need for Pennsylvania

[hibsbollah]

Just in and checking out CNNs coverage, it’s really good. Going down to district level. They are running through the 269-269 scenario again which we identified here about 5 states ago.

[Hibrandenburg]

Just in and checking out CNNs coverage, it’s really good. Going down to district level. They are running through the 269-269 scenario again which we identified here about 5 states ago.

I thought that was off the cards now?

[Callum_62]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/us-election-live-trump-latest-22942376

Looks like we will find out soon what the republicans will do when Biden wins

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[Bostonhibby]

Could be a good one for the lawyers if Trump is to try and get everything he wants!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/f940c98e373011cd2bd3c246453282ee.jpg

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[sleeping giant]

Just in and checking out CNNs coverage, it’s really good. Going down to district level. They are running through the 269-269 scenario again which we identified here about 5 states ago.

Been watching for the past 2 days.
Very detailed and fascinating .

[jonty]

Been watching for the past 2 days.
Very detailed and fascinating .

Its been good, but the adverts are beginning to do my nut in.

[hibsbollah]

I thought that was off the cards now?

Not if everyone went too early in calling Arizona blue.

[Smartie]

Been watching for the past 2 days.
Very detailed and fascinating .

CNN has been outstanding.

I've never watched it before.

[One Day Soon]

Its been good, but the adverts are beginning to do my nut in.

What makes you say that? I'm thinking of buying an Hyundai and possibly a Samsung medical management system...

[One Day Soon]

CNN has been outstanding.

I've never watched it before.


Genuinely thinking of dipping into it from time to time post-election. You'd give a lot for a Chris Cuomo figure on our networks.

[Andy74]

Its been good, but the adverts are beginning to do my nut in.

Yeah we get the international adverts and features that are very repetitive. Most are a bit weird as well.

[jonty]

What makes you say that? I'm thinking of buying an Hyundai and possibly a Samsung medical management system...

Ive invested in a new African oil refinery whilst also saving the world and invested in tetra Pak with their new environmentally friendly designs.
Theres also a poisonous snake around here somewhere (theres a joke in there somewhere ....).

back to following the data and counting every vote.

[Andy74]

Nevada are going to be at this for the next week.

[One Day Soon]

That Nevada spokesperson in the mask was blinding.

Journalist: "Can you tell us..."

Spokesperson: "No, piss off. I already covered that and you should have been paying attention" (I mean not literally but that was definitely the tone)

[marinello59]

Genuinely thinking of dipping into it from time to time post-election. You'd give a lot for a Chris Cuomo figure on our networks.

I’ve watched it regularly since 9/11. When it’s good it’s very good but it needs a health warning, it’s almost as biased towards the Democrats as Fox is to the Republicans. We also don’t get the 24/7 newsroom coverage over here outside of major events. It’s a more featured base service with a few hours a day of straight news.

[Jim44]

Nevada are going to be at this for the next week.

Guy on the news saying that a region of Nevada have advised they may not have a final result there till next Thursday. :confused::confused::confused:

[Glory Lurker]

How come they gave us Texas Instruments calculators for school but are so slow at counting?

[Bostonhibby]

CNN has been outstanding.

I've never watched it before.It's great, I've been watching on and off all day. Good at explaining how absurd Trump's attempts to variously hijack some of the states are.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

That Nevada spokesperson in the mask was blinding.

Journalist: "Can you tell us..."

Spokesperson: "No, piss off. I already covered that and you should have been paying attention" (I mean not literally but that was definitely the tone)Agree, interesting character.

Looked like a bad example of how Norm from Cheers would look with the passage of time[emoji3]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

I’ve watched it regularly since 9/11. When it’s good it’s very good but it needs a health warning, it’s almost as biased towards the Democrats as Fox is to the Republicans. We also don’t get the 24/7 newsroom coverage over here outside of major events. It’s a more featured base service with a few hours a day of straight news.

I have no problem with partisan as long as it’s my kind of partisan.

[SHODAN]

Toight! 99percent counted https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/5b9891c7d342d503917d4edbd79d7f0a.jpg

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Georgia has been on 99% for hours, what is taking the last 1% so long?

[Bostonhibby]

Georgia has been on 99% for hours, what is taking the last 1% so long?Savannah has one man and his dog counting and are still waiting on tranches of votes being sent over from the registrar. Their verification is also sent of to another site quarter of a mile away.

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[CapitalGreen]

Georgia has been on 99% for hours, what is taking the last 1% so long?

The 99% figure isn’t correct.

[Tobias Funke]

I’ve watched it regularly since 9/11. When it’s good it’s very good but it needs a health warning, it’s almost as biased towards the Democrats as Fox is to the Republicans. We also don’t get the 24/7 newsroom coverage over here outside of major events. It’s a more featured base service with a few hours a day of straight news.

CNN are too partial for me, I like their anchors though, Cuomo, Cooper, Lemon etc are all great. I much prefer MSNBC.

If anyone likes their US politics extremely right wing try OAN. Absolute lunatics.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not if everyone went too early in calling Arizona blue.

Gotcha.

[CapitalGreen]

The All Lives Matter crowd seem extremely upset to learn that All Votes Matter.




Credit: someone on twitter

[hibsbollah]

Gotcha.

Well, just as I say that I’ve had a look at the tracker and I don’t think 269-269 is possible with an Arizona flip after all :dunno: They did discuss it so there must still be some route to a tie.

[Hibrandenburg]

Well, just as I say that I’ve had a look at the tracker and I don’t think 269-269 is possible with an Arizona flip after all :dunno: They did discuss it so there must still be some route to a tie.

I thought it had been ruled out last night after Trump managed to get 1 from 4 in Maine last night making it mathematically impossible. Not that I've done the maths :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

Biden winning Georgia and Trump winning Alaska, Arizona, North Carolina, Nevada and Pennsylvania would result in a 269-269 tie.

[Hibrandenburg]

Biden winning Georgia and Trump winning Alaska, Arizona, North Carolina, Nevada and Pennsylvania would result in a 269-269 tie.

You're right, mathematically possible but thankfully very unlikely.

[BS44]

Biden winning Georgia and Trump winning Alaska, Arizona, North Carolina, Nevada and Pennsylvania would result in a 269-269 tie.

Biden won a single EC vote in Nebraska which means a tie is not possible

[degenerated]

How come they gave us Texas Instruments calculators for school but are so slow at counting?I had one of these when I was a wee laddiehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/c29b5d00762bb41e9b72815d8a289009.jpg

[Hibrandenburg]

Biden won a single EC vote in Nebraska which means a tie is not possible

Georgia has 16 EC votes, Biden has definitely 253 in the bag. If he only wins Georgia and Trump wins the rest, then they're tied on 269. Not gonna happen though.

[Sir David Gray]

Biden won a single EC vote in Nebraska which means a tie is not possible

It is possible, unlikely but it definitely is possible.

[hibsbollah]

Georgia has 16 EC votes, Biden has definitely 253 in the bag. If he only wins Georgia and Trump wins the rest, then they're tied on 269. Not gonna happen though.

That’s it, correct, my sums sucked.

[Glory Lurker]

I had one of these when I was a wee laddiehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/c29b5d00762bb41e9b72815d8a289009.jpg

That is one class piece of kit!

[Rumble de Thump]

The BBC has reported that the Republicans have raised $8 million to fund litigation, much of which has been raised by pumping out messages to its supporters saying the Democrats are trying to steal the election, undermine the election etc. It seems like a fraudulent way to raise money.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2020/11/5/78b473d3-177a-425a-b56d-158b8424044e.jpg

[calumhibee1]

The BBC has reported that the Republicans have raised $8 million to fund litigation, much of which has been raised by pumping out messages to its supporters saying the Democrats are trying to steal the election, undermine the election etc. It seems like a fraudulent way to raise money.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2020/11/5/78b473d3-177a-425a-b56d-158b8424044e.jpg

That surely can’t be real?

[Pretty Boy]

https://youtu.be/NvgqRKYapU8

This was John McCain's concession speech when he was defeated by Obama. Watch his reaction when the crowd boo when he mentions Obama's name. Listen to the conciliatory tone. I was no lover of the politics of Mccain but it's amazing to contrast his behaviour here with that of Trump. Even in the crazy world of American politics things seem to have become unrecognisable in just over a decade.

[One Day Soon]

CNN are too partial for me, I like their anchors though, Cuomo, Cooper, Lemon etc are all great. I much prefer MSNBC.

If anyone likes their US politics extremely right wing try OAN. Absolute lunatics.

Right, I absolutely have to experience some of that now!

[hibsbollah]

https://youtu.be/NvgqRKYapU8

This was John McCain's concession speech when he was defeated by Obama. Watch his reaction when the crowd boo when he mentions Obama's name. Listen to the conciliatory tone. I was no lover of the politics of Mccain but it's amazing to contrast his behaviour here with that of Trump. Even in the crazy world of American politics things seem to have become unrecognisable in just over a decade.

Yes, moving words and an expression of the power of good character. I’m confident that Trump is an aberration, an anomaly, and we’ll return to that kind of mutual respect.

[Tobias Funke]

Right, I absolutely have to experience some of that now!

OAN even give Fox News a red face :greengrin

[Vault Boy]

The BBC has reported that the Republicans have raised $8 million to fund litigation, much of which has been raised by pumping out messages to its supporters saying the Democrats are trying to steal the election, undermine the election etc. It seems like a fraudulent way to raise money.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2020/11/5/78b473d3-177a-425a-b56d-158b8424044e.jpg

****ing hell, if that screenshot is legitimately what they were sending out then, like much of his Presidency, it's simply beyond parody.

It's like someone waking up to a bunch of nonsensical spam from a drunk pal the night before.

[Tobias Funke]

Just a thought;

If Biden wins all the remaining states bar Alaska and NC (those look out of reach) he’s going to have a decent sized electoral college win with little room for dispute. At that point we might see Republicans disown Trump and leave him on his own.

If things get bat**** crazy and he starts inciting violence, refuses to concede etc could the senate try and invoke the 25th? Surely if Trumps allies start to step away from him they could vote the 25th through and put Pence in charge for a peaceful transition.

Not sure how viable or likely that is but worthy of discussion.

[The 90+2]

****ing hell, if that screenshot is legitimately what they were sending out then, like much of his Presidency, it's simply beyond parody.

It's like someone waking up to a bunch of nonsensical spam from a drunk pal the night before.

Jim Traynor clearly in charge of the Repulican media campaign.

[G B Young]

https://youtu.be/NvgqRKYapU8

This was John McCain's concession speech when he was defeated by Obama. Watch his reaction when the crowd boo when he mentions Obama's name. Listen to the conciliatory tone. I was no lover of the politics of Mccain but it's amazing to contrast his behaviour here with that of Trump. Even in the crazy world of American politics things seem to have become unrecognisable in just over a decade.

The respect was mutual. I recall Obama being especially supportive when McCain was diagnosed with cancer.

And this letter from George Bush Snr to Bill Clinton echoes that bygone era of honour among rivals:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/12/01/bush-letter-clinton-read-george-h-w-bushs-letter/2173692002/

[Vault Boy]

Jim Traynor clearly in charge of the Repulican media campaign.

Just waiting on the GOP to announce a penalty to Rangers

[Hibrandenburg]

If you think this election was mental, have a read here about what could happen if the winning candidate bites the dust before inauguration.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/21502447/trump-biden-death-what-happens

[The 90+2]

Just waiting on the GOP to announce a penalty to Rangers

😀 fenian vote counters will be my next claim.

[AugustaHibs]

Is it true trump is making a speech at 11.30?

[CapitalGreen]

Is it true trump is making a speech at 11.30?

Yes

[Andy74]

Pennsylvania should be turning blue pretty soon.

Donald up at 11.30. This should be carnage.

[jonty]

Pennsylvania should be turning blue pretty soon.

Donald up at 11.30. This should be carnage.

Worth staying up for.:agree:

[Mon Dieu4]

If you think this election was mental, have a read here about what could happen if the winning candidate bites the dust before inauguration.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/21502447/trump-biden-death-what-happens

You are as bad as me, I actually googled that very same thing this morning :greengrin

[SaulGoodman]

Who pays for Trumps legal fees.

Dundee Utd

[Ryan91]

Trump Jr urging "total war" over the election.

Also says they need to clean up the mess and stop looking like a banana republic.

They don't do irony very well, do they?

[Callum_62]

They are seriously going for civil war

What a family of absolutely ****ing nutjobs



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[Tobias Funke]

Trump Jr urging "total war" over the election.

Also says they need to clean up the mess and stop looking like a banana republic.

They don't do irony very well, do they?

The same tw*t who claimed Covid deaths in the US were practically zero last week. He’s a dangerous, low IQ idiot. Odious beyond imagination.

[Callum_62]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201105/4848b5420b305091d7a8d1fdb8a0d794.jpg

[Andy74]

He needs put in a padded room.

[jonty]

He’s off his rocker.
Is he in an alternate universe?

[Hibrandenburg]

He's ****ing bonkers.

[Andy74]

Nearly half of Americans voted for this nut job.

[jonty]

I see it now.



It’s a 4year long Sasha baron Cohen film, isn’t it.

[Gloucester Hibs]

He’s lost the plot - talk about sour grapes!

[Callum_62]

Who cares if the polls were wrong?

They were wrong 4 years ago, does that make him winning invalidated?

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[Mon Dieu4]

Trump's speeches are like me in an exam at school, let's just say everything and anything and hope there is an answer in there somewhere haha mental *******

[Smartie]

What am I watching?

This is absolute insanity.

I expected madness but this is just off the scale.

[Callum_62]

What am I watching?

This is absolute insanity.

I expected madness but this is just off the scale.It's like watching that Alex Jones YouTube channel

Except he's in the Whitehouse.

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[Hibrandenburg]

Nearly half of Americans voted for this nut job.

Utterly baffling.

[Andy74]

What am I watching?

This is absolute insanity.

I expected madness but this is just off the scale.

It’s a scary new level. He needs taken away. Genuinely.

[lapsedhibee]

Amendment 25. If not now, when? :dunno:

[Mon Dieu4]

I was winning, then they counted some more votes and I wasn't winning anymore, really that can actually happen?

[Callum_62]

To he fair, he would know about fraud

Honestly this is like listening to a senile old man

Observers using binoculars... You really think if that was the case it wouldn't be all over the place and no just him running his mouth



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[Hibrandenburg]

He's absolutely *****ing himself. He's even a much paler tone of tangerine than normal.

[Gloucester Hibs]

“People using binoculars” 😂😂

[660]

Well here we go. He’s going to rile up the maniacs that support him with this utter drivel.

[Mon Dieu4]

He's like the old pished guy on the fast show that you can only make out a word every now and then CAIRO!!!

https://youtu.be/18JmieM8SFc

[Tobias Funke]

Amendment 25. If not now, when? :dunno:

This.

His golfing buddy Lindsay Graham has been very quiet on the subject, perhaps he’s one of the first Republican senators to abandon him. Trumps going to become very isolated very soon, just his dipsh*t family and bumlicking advisors left.

[660]

Hope AP calls it for Biden as this cretin witters on

[Tobias Funke]

I have the live MSNBC coverage on and they haven’t shown one bit of this conference yet. Interesting.

[Smartie]

Keith Chegwin with his willy oot has just been bumped into number two on the list of most bizarre things I've ever seen on tv.

This is the President of the United States of America.

[Hibrandenburg]

What a car crash.

[jonty]

CNN chap summed it up “what a sad, sad night”

[660]

I have the live MSNBC coverage on and they haven’t shown one bit of this conference yet. Interesting.

NBC cut him off as all networks should before this crap can be fact checked.

[Hibrandenburg]

CNN not holding back.

[Callum_62]

Where was Mike Pence?

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[HibbyKeith]

Sounding like a bitter old rich man that is not used to not getting his own way, and is now throwing around as many allegations as he can to deflect the away from his failings.

Sad and embarrassing.

[Mon Dieu4]

CNN not holding back.

That's the first time I've actually watched any actual US coverage of it and I know CNN is skewed that way but they certainly aren't missing him that's for sure :cb

[Hibrandenburg]

Keith Chegwin with his willy oot has just been bumped into number two on the list of most bizarre things I've ever seen on tv.

This is the President of the United States of America.

:faf: Nicking that.

[Mon Dieu4]

Where was Mike Pence?

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Probably poisoning his wife and kids as we speak :devil:

[Callum_62]

Really lucky they observers had some spare binos on them likes

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[Mon Dieu4]

Really lucky they observers had some spare binos on them likes

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The binoculars bit genuinely had me poorless :faf::faf:

[Ryan91]

You always knew that if he was losing and it looked close he'd be out having a temper-tantrum about how unfair it was, how he was cheated, how it's all fraudulent and everyone's always been against him, out to get him.

[Mon Dieu4]

24087

[Tobias Funke]

NBC cut him off as all networks should before this crap can be fact checked.

Just heard one anchor say as much. Absolutely the right decision.

Painful watching Rick Santorum try to sit on the fence on CNN. He rightfully panned Trump for his falsehoods but still couldn’t help stick up for him where he could. He should just call him what he is, a deranged clown.

[Hibrandenburg]

Probably poisoning his wife and kids as we speak :devil:

Oi! That's not allowed :greengrin

[660]

Trump has gone to federal court seeking an injunction against Philadelphia to stop the counting of "any ballots so long as Republican observers are not present".

The dispute is about how close observers can be to the workers counting ballots

Judge Paul Diamond to the Trump campaign lawyer:
Diamond: Are your observers in the counting room?

Trump campaign: "There's a non zero number of people in the room"

Diamond: "I’m asking you as a member of the bar of this court: are people representing the Donald J Trump for president, representing the plaintiffs, in that room?"

Trump campaign lawyer: "Yes."

Diamond: "I'm sorry, then what's your problem?"

[Andy74]

Trump has gone to federal court seeking an injunction against Philadelphia to stop the counting of "any ballots so long as Republican observers are not present".

The dispute is about how close observers can be to the workers counting ballots

Judge Paul Diamond to the Trump campaign lawyer:
Diamond: Are your observers in the counting room?

Trump campaign: "There's a non zero number of people in the room"

Diamond: "I’m asking you as a member of the bar of this court: are people representing the Donald J Trump for president, representing the plaintiffs, in that room?"

Trump campaign lawyer: "Yes."

Diamond: "I'm sorry, then what's your problem?"

A non zero number. Classic.

[Callum_62]

Based on the trend trumps toast

I want Biden to get to 270 officially to see the reaction

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[jonty]

Refreshing to see news outlets calling him out, and Republicans too, but why wait until he’s outgoing. Why weren’t they doing this over the past 4 years?

[stokesmessiah]

Anyone found a clip to his conference? I missed it and want a laugh.

[Ozyhibby]

Republicans are dropping him like a hot tat tie already. Even the New York Post is dropping him. He’s about to realise how little friends he has.
Then the court cases will start to pile up for him.


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[HibbyKeith]

Anyone found a clip to his conference? I missed it and want a laugh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_geZZv9CqfI

[CapitalGreen]

Republicans are dropping him like a hot tat tie already. Even the New York Post is dropping him. He’s about to realise how little friends he has.
Then the court cases will start to pile up for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some of the angry replies under New York Post tweets are hilarious. Looks like Murdoch has turned on him and is now backing the winner as usual.

[1875godsgift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_geZZv9CqfI

That man is so dangerous.

Unfortunately, he'll probably be the last to suffer from the ***** he spouts.

[Vault Boy]

Hannah Arendt would have had a field day, though that's not to say she'd have derived any pleasure from it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Hannah Arendt would have had a field day, though that's not to say she'd have derived any pleasure from it.

Everyone interested in history/politics should read The origins of Totalitarianism. A great work, examining how any society, no matter how seemingly pluralist, can descend into authoritarianism.

In other news, Trump's lead in Georgia, with just a few thousand ballots to count, is down to just 2500 votes. In Pennsylvania, with 94% of ballots counted, Trump's lead is down to 49,000
votes.

EDIT* - Trump's lead in Georgia now down to just 1900

[Vault Boy]

Everyone interested in history/politics should read The origins of Totalitarianism. A great work, examining how any society, no matter how seemingly pluralist, can descend into authoritarianism.

In other news, Trump's lead in Georgia, with just a few thousand ballots to count, is down to just 2500 votes. In Pennsylvania, with 94% of ballots counted, Trump's lead is down to 49,000
votes.

EDIT* - Trump's lead in Georgia now down to just 1900

I couldn't agree more. Her work will always be applicable and valuable, but you have to feel that now, more than in most recent decades, a public that are widely conscious of her writings would be an incredibly useful thing. An incredible thinker, but most importantly, an active one.

Good to see these states slipping away from the Republicans, a more comfortable Biden victory should hopefully see the dominoes fall more quickly in getting Trump's litigious bull**** over with.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Trump lead in Pennsylvania down to 37,000 votes, with six per cent still to count.


EDIT* - Trump lead in Pa. only 27,000 votes now.

[Barney McGrew]

Georgia now down to 1709 votes ahead for Trump, and Pennsylvania only 22,576.

Biden up by 11,438 in Nevada and 47,052 on Arizona.

[Barney McGrew]

Pennsylvania now down to 18,229 with c150k ballots left to count. Biden currently getting 4 votes to every 1 for Trump from what’s still outstanding.

At that rate, Biden will win by 80-90,000 in that state.

Georgia now down to a 1200 lead for Trump.

[degenerated]

Pennsylvania now down to 18,229 with c150k ballots left to count. Biden currently getting 4 votes to every 1 for Trump from what’s still outstanding.

At that rate, Biden will win by 80-90,000 in that state.

Georgia now down to a 1200 lead for Trump.Some amount of time its taking though, they're much quicker picking presidents for other countries than they are their own.

[Hibrandenburg]

Some amount of time its taking though, they're much quicker picking presidents for other countries than they are their own.

:faf:

[hibsbollah]

We probably won’t know who will control the senate for another 2 months. Both senate races in Georgia now look like they’ll go to a runoff election in January 5th, it’s currently tied 48-48 with Alaska and N Carolina to come, both likely Trump wins.

[Pretty Boy]

Did anyone see the Trump supporting nut job on with Emily Maitlis yesterday?

Her argument was that Trump had momentum then they took a break in counting which broke the momentum and that was how Biden started gaining ground. She was asked repeatedly what she meant and whether she was arguing for the count to continue or pause and couldn't answer.

She didn't seem to get the ballot was closed so momentum had nothing to do with it. If a sealed box contained 200K votes got Biden and 200K for Trump it doesn't matter if it takes 2 hours, 2 days or 2 years to count them. The numbers stay the same.

[Ozyhibby]

We probably won’t know who will control the senate for another 2 months. Both senate races in Georgia now look like they’ll go to a runoff election in January 5th, it’s currently tied 48-48 with Alaska and N Carolina to come, both likely Trump wins.

Hopefully the republican will be mid civil war by then and the Dems are focussed enough to get the job done.


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[lapsedhibee]

Did anyone see the Trump supporting nut job on with Emily Maitlis yesterday?

Her argument was that Trump had momentum then they took a break in counting which broke the momentum and that was how Biden started gaining ground.

The play is to deliberately confuse counting and voting. So the nutjobs pose "Do you think people should be allowed to vote on 4th, 5th, 6th November? No, neither do I", etc. That particular nutjob didn't seem to realise it was a play, so she struggled. Thought Maitlis was going to cut her interview short, she was making so little sense.

[Chuck Rhoades]

I can’t find this interview people are talking about with CNN bloke anywhere? Link posted before doesn’t work either. Can anyone help?

[Ozyhibby]

Georgia down to 463


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[Hibrandenburg]

Did anyone see the Trump supporting nut job on with Emily Maitlis yesterday?

Her argument was that Trump had momentum then they took a break in counting which broke the momentum and that was how Biden started gaining ground. She was asked repeatedly what she meant and whether she was arguing for the count to continue or pause and couldn't answer.

She didn't seem to get the ballot was closed so momentum had nothing to do with it. If a sealed box contained 200K votes got Biden and 200K for Trump it doesn't matter if it takes 2 hours, 2 days or 2 years to count them. The numbers stay the same.

I've been looking for over 4 years now, but still haven't seen or heard a Trump supporter that isn't weird, creepy or deranged in some kind of way. The nearest I've come to it was listening to some Republican politicians who were speaking up for Trump but obviously didn't believe what they were actually saying themselves, which is in its own way weird. Considering there's about 70 million of them out there, somebody must be able to post a link showing me one "normal" Trumper or Trumpette.

[SHODAN]

Georgia down to 463


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It's going to get to like 9 or 10 and they run out of votes, calling it. :rolleyes:

[CapitalGreen]

I've been looking for over 4 years now, but still haven't seen or heard a Trump supporter that isn't weird, creepy or deranged in some kind of way. The nearest I've come to it was listening to some Republican politicians who were speaking up for Trump but obviously didn't believe what they were actually saying themselves, which is in its own way weird. Considering there's about 70 million of them out there, somebody must be able to post a link showing me one "normal" Trumper or Trumpette.

Not a link but my former manager at a previous job was a trump voter. She was certainly not how you’d describe a stereotypical Trump voter. She was an Asian American living in New Jersey and working in Manhattan as an MD for an investment firm. For many in the US, the prospect of lower taxes trumps (no pun intended) everything else and they can overlook a multitude of sins if their taxes remain low.

[lapsedhibee]

It's going to get to like 9 or 10 and they run out of votes, calling it. :rolleyes:

Nah. 10,000 postal votes still to count in Georgia and in the Dem bits of it Biden's getting 80-90% of them. Easy win in Georgia, landslide in Pennsylvania. Trump :bye:

[Hibrandenburg]

Not a link but my former manager at a previous job was a trump voter. She was certainly not how you’d describe a stereotypical Trump voter. She was an Asian American living in New Jersey and working in Manhattan as an MD for an investment firm. For many in the US, the prospect of lower taxes trumps (no pun intended) everything else and they can overlook a multitude of sins if their taxes remain low.

I'm not doubting that there are "normal" Trumpsters out there somewhere, I'd just like to see one with my own eyes, if for nothing else but just to confirm to myself that I'm not experiencing confirmation bias.

[Smartie]

Not a link but my former manager at a previous job was a trump voter. She was certainly not how you’d describe a stereotypical Trump voter. She was an Asian American living in New Jersey and working in Manhattan as an MD for an investment firm. For many in the US, the prospect of lower taxes trumps (no pun intended) everything else and they can overlook a multitude of sins if their taxes remain low.

I agree, and it's almost as if Trump has been an experiment in seeing exactly how much they're prepared to overlook.

It's not like the alternative is even all that horrific ie taxes aren't so much higher that they make a seismic difference - nobody's going to a gulag, they're not queueing for bread etc if the democrats get in. It's a bit more tax, and the likelihood is it would make little difference to most of them.

And you'd think that how keen they are on their military etc that they'd take a bit more pride in playing their part in paying for that military.

America is strange.

[Hibs90]

Biden takes the lead in Georgia

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1324643044876972032?s=19

[Barney McGrew]

Biden takes the lead in Georgia

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1324643044876972032?s=19


Trump has to win Georgia.

Its looking like Biden will hit well over the 270 at some point today, and it’s looking increasingly likely he’ll get a clean sweep of what’s left to declare bar Alaska and North Carolina.

[calumhibee1]

I agree, and it's almost as if Trump has been an experiment in seeing exactly how much they're prepared to overlook.

It's not like the alternative is even all that horrific ie taxes aren't so much higher that they make a seismic difference - nobody's going to a gulag, they're not queueing for bread etc if the democrats get in. It's a bit more tax, and the likelihood is it would make little difference to most of them.

And you'd think that how keen they are on their military etc that they'd take a bit more pride in playing their part in paying for that military.

America is strange.

For folk who are a MD in Manhattan like the person described above, is the tax rate not going to be about 25% higher? Sure I saw somewhere that the tax rate would be increased to about 65% although to be honest I’ve no idea where I would have saw that so I may well be imagining it.

[CapitalGreen]

We probably won’t know who will control the senate for another 2 months. Both senate races in Georgia now look like they’ll go to a runoff election in January 5th, it’s currently tied 48-48 with Alaska and N Carolina to come, both likely Trump wins.

The Dem candidate for Alaska stills seems confident he’s in with a chance but that may just be grandstanding on his part.

[ballengeich]

Not a link but my former manager at a previous job was a trump voter. She was certainly not how you’d describe a stereotypical Trump voter. She was an Asian American living in New Jersey and working in Manhattan as an MD for an investment firm. For many in the US, the prospect of lower taxes trumps (no pun intended) everything else and they can overlook a multitude of sins if their taxes remain low.
I was talking last weekend to someone whose American relative, described as a decent person, was going to vote for Trump for the sole reason that her pension fund has done very well during his term in office. I think that's something that people in the UK don't look at.

Trump's tax cuts have been very good for the stock market. The budget deficit and trade deficit have soared so there are longer term problems, but if you're purely looking at your pension fund his economic record looks good.

Trump's business history contains numerous companies that have gone bust owing a lot of money (but not to him) and it's like he's taken his business model into macroeconomics.

[Ozyhibby]

Trump has to win Georgia.

Its looking like Biden will hit well over the 270 at some point today, and it’s looking increasingly likely he’ll get a clean sweep of what’s left to declare bar Alaska and North Carolina.

If he gets that then the polls will only really have called Florida wrong. The margins are out but these were all the target states for the Democrats and it can then be said they ran a very good campaign.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Since90+2]

Biden now ahead in Georgia by 917.

Looks like game over for the orange man.

[Keith_M]

I was talking last weekend to someone whose American relative, described as a decent person, was going to vote for Trump for the sole reason that her pension fund has done very well during his term in office. I think that's something that people in the UK don't look at.

Trump's tax cuts have been very good for the stock market. The budget deficit and trade deficit have soared so there are longer term problems, but if you're purely looking at your pension fund his economic record looks good.
...


Never underestimate people's level of self-interest.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/67456327/its-the-economy-stupid.jpg