US Presidential Elections 2020 [Archive]

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jonty

11-08-2020, 08:53 PM

hibsbollah

11-08-2020, 08:58 PM

I thought we might have had a thread on this, but it might have been the last one.

So, to kick off, Joe Biden has picked Kamala Harris as VP for the November elections.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53739323

Democrats to win control of House, Senate & White House?

It was only breaking news 4 minutes ago to be fair. We need a Hibs net US politics news ticker at the bottom of the screen :greengrin

Inevitable, predictable and safe choice by the gooder guys.

jonty

11-08-2020, 09:02 PM

It was only breaking news 4 minutes ago to be fair. We need a Hibs net US politics news ticker at the bottom of the screen :greengrin

Inevitable, predictable and safe choice by the gooder guys.

I meant that i though we had one on the US election 2020 - not necessarily on these two :greengrin
I'm probably thinking the Trump thread as it covers a lot on the subject. Or maybe even the last election. Worth having it on its own though.

Pretty Boy

11-08-2020, 09:10 PM

Ozyhibby

11-08-2020, 09:14 PM

Would it have been theoretically possible for Biden to have selected Obama as his running mate?

I'm not suggesting he should have but could he have? Can someone serve 2 terms as President and then serve as VP, Secretary of State etc?

Would be tricky if Biden died though as the VP becomes President. Not sure of the rules or when they came out that you could only do two terms? I’m sure there have been presidents previously who have served longer?

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Haymaker

11-08-2020, 09:14 PM

Would it have been theoretically possible for Biden to have selected Obama as his running mate?

I'm not suggesting he should have but could he have? Can someone serve 2 terms as President and then serve as VP, Secretary of State etc?

I'm surprised he didn't take Obama... and not Barack.

As for serving as SoS or other positions, former failed presidential candidates have but I don't think any former presidents have, maybe in the early days. Pretty sure after being president I'd be happy publishing the memoirs and going on the lecture circuit!

Mon Dieu4

11-08-2020, 09:15 PM

Would it have been theoretically possible for Biden to have selected Obama as his running mate?

I'm not suggesting he should have but could he have? Can someone serve 2 terms as President and then serve as VP, Secretary of State etc?

If you are a twice served president then because of the time limits on these posts then no he couldn't have him as Vice President

Haymaker

11-08-2020, 09:18 PM

If you are a twice served president then because of the time limits on these posts then no he couldn't have him as Vice President

I've just double checked and it does seem it only applies if you are VP to President, I was wrong.

Ozyhibby

11-08-2020, 09:20 PM

Just looked it up. Two term rule only came in in 1951.

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Mon Dieu4

11-08-2020, 09:22 PM

I've just double checked and it does seem it only applies if you are VP to President, I was wrong.

I read an article about it in the last year or so, think it said the only real thing you could get Obama in for a position in the administration would be the Supreme Court and even then it would be a radical move

Haymaker

11-08-2020, 09:27 PM

I read an article about it in the last year or so, think it said the only real thing you could get Obama in for a position in the administration would be the Supreme Court and even then it would be a radical move

I read somewhere that he could but just double checked and he definitely cant.

Still, could he come back as a secretary of? Possible. Would he want too?

Mon Dieu4

11-08-2020, 09:30 PM

I read somewhere that he could but just double checked and he definitely cant.

Still, could he come back as a secretary of? Possible. Would he want too?

He'd be off his nut to do it, been there and done it and can now pick up millions for a few hours work

Mibbes Aye

11-08-2020, 10:41 PM

I posted a few months back that if Biden won the nomination then he should go for Kamala Harris

A Democratic candidate should never have to worry about California. More importantly in a race between two old white men she might provide some traction with women voters, especially given that Trump has alienated women so much. Nevertheless Harris seals the state but also likely mobilises a female vote and the black vote elsewhere - in crucial states like North Carolina that is important.

There is added momentum in that Biden, if successful, is unlikely to run for two terms, and if the Dems do win then Harris is the presumptive candidate in 2024. A black woman, who carries California and has a strong and maybe strict record on crime. The Republicans must be slightly bricking it.

Just_Jimmy

11-08-2020, 10:50 PM

Just looked it up. Two term rule only came in in 1951.

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFDR was last to be elected 3 times. He didn't serve three.

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hibby rae

12-08-2020, 08:36 AM

FDR was last to be elected 3 times. He didn't serve three.

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4 times. He died a few months into the 4th and Truman took over.

Vault Boy

12-08-2020, 10:40 AM

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?344101-US-Election-2020

I feel personally insulted, Jonty. :greengrin

I like Kamala Harris, good choice.

jonty

12-08-2020, 10:46 AM

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?344101-US-Election-2020

I feel personally insulted, Jonty. :greengrin

I like Kamala Harris, good choice.

sorry dude. I did search.

(talk about starting a match thread early............ :bandit: ) :greengrin

Keith_M

12-08-2020, 11:57 AM

hibsbollah

12-08-2020, 12:13 PM

So, Kamala Harris, best candidate for the job or 'ticks the right boxes'*?

I know very little about her and wondered what other people's thoughts were.

* Predictably, that's the angle the current incumbents have led with.

She was a successful prosecutor, and very distinct politically from the more radical Democrats like AOC. Trumps strategy is all about portraying the Dems as dangerous radicals, soft on crime, echoing previous GOP strategies from Nixon and Bush. Harris being on the ticket makes this more difficult. She’s a moderate who has worked inside the allegedly racist legal system.You can’t call her soft on crime without ignoring facts (although ignoring facts obvs hasn’t stopped Trump before). There will be plenty of misinformation, online smears and lies and she will need to be mentally strong and stable.

Clearly race and gender is important; polls are showing that white middle class women, who went narrowly for Trump despite ‘grab the pussy’ etc last time, are the group that has moved most away from the Republicans in recent moves, so it strengthens that tectonic shift. Biden is popular with black voters, I haven’t seen evidence but you have to imagine Harris will also be.

The VPs eventual political power is fairly limited, Head of the Senate, unless Bidens health is an issue. Her job will be to look good and sound good on TV, which she’s well capable of.

Keith_M

12-08-2020, 12:14 PM

She was a successful prosecutor, and very distinct politically from the more radical Democrats like AOC. Trumps strategy is all about portraying the Dems as dangerous radicals, soft on crime, echoing previous GOP strategies from Nixon and Bush. Harris being on the ticket more difficult. She’s a moderate who has worked inside the allegedly racist legal system.You can’t call her soft on crime without ignoring facts (although ignoring facts obvs hasn’t stopped Trump before).

Clearly race and gender is important; polls are showing that white middle class women, who went narrowly for Trump despite ‘grab the pussy’ etc last time, are the group that has moved most away from the Republicans in recent moves, so it strengthens that tectonic shift. Biden is popular with black voters, I haven’t seen evidence but you have to imagine Harris will also be.

The VPs eventual political power is fairly limited, Head of the Senate, unless Bidens health is an issue. Her job will be to look good and sound good on TV, which she’s well capable of.

That's very interesting, thanks

:aok:

Just_Jimmy

12-08-2020, 06:39 PM

4 times. He died a few months into the 4th and Truman took over.Of course, and I knew that. No Idea why I had a brain fart.

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JeMeSouviens

12-08-2020, 08:12 PM

She was a successful prosecutor, and very distinct politically from the more radical Democrats like AOC. Trumps strategy is all about portraying the Dems as dangerous radicals, soft on crime, echoing previous GOP strategies from Nixon and Bush. Harris being on the ticket makes this more difficult. She’s a moderate who has worked inside the allegedly racist legal system.You can’t call her soft on crime without ignoring facts (although ignoring facts obvs hasn’t stopped Trump before). There will be plenty of misinformation, online smears and lies and she will need to be mentally strong and stable.

Clearly race and gender is important; polls are showing that white middle class women, who went narrowly for Trump despite ‘grab the pussy’ etc last time, are the group that has moved most away from the Republicans in recent moves, so it strengthens that tectonic shift. Biden is popular with black voters, I haven’t seen evidence but you have to imagine Harris will also be.

The VPs eventual political power is fairly limited, Head of the Senate, unless Bidens health is an issue. Her job will be to look good and sound good on TV, which she’s well capable of.

Potentially pole position for 2024 if Biden is a 1 term pres.

bobbyhibs1983

13-08-2020, 08:40 AM

hi

be sorta intresting to see how things pan out though to be honest i don't think i am too hopeful if the likely situation of trump reelection or biden's..unless there would be a 3rd part voted in ( prob very unlikely?)

For the 2016 election from my *limited* understanding of there policies i felt if *I* had a chance to vote i felt i would have went for trump, i felt he spoke about jobs more and looking after american people more so than clinton,also i felt clinton has more experince ,thats true i just felt there was something i guess a career politican i think could be the words for it? would be an issue that i didn't like bout clinton.

for trump 4 years on i think he has done a few good things keeping jobs in america for one..i think he had harley davidson stay in the usa, keeping jobs for usa people and i think 2-3 other companies as well, i think he threatend tarriffs though.However i think the way he has handle covid has been shocking, some of the things he has said have also been bad too,

the worst part i fell is.. of all the people the other side could pick they fell the ebst person to run would be biden!
I fell he often says stupid things also im sure a lady at one of these town halls or where ever it was asked a perfectly simple question and he starts off calling her a dog!

I do wonder what trump and bidens polices are gonna be like though, I do wonder if age will come into play here and maybe people may be put off by both guys ages? I dont wanna come across as ageist, i really dont but both guys are mid 70s? with age does come with alot of life experinces though,but i always assume being president is stressfull enough if you were 50!

hopefully it will be a bit better come november

overdrive

13-08-2020, 09:09 AM

bobbyhibs1983

13-08-2020, 10:27 AM

Biden often says stupid things? Have you heard an average Trump interview/press conference?

hi
and ye i have! i think there isn't a word that sums up trumps often *stupid* statements,, stupid is sometime too nice!

and you think biden calling a female asking a question a "lying dog" is not stupid?

i guess what my point is .is its not *just* trump whom says stupid things but biden also. but i whole heartly agree that trump takes it way and beyond just a stupid ill informed comment.

grunt

13-08-2020, 10:33 AM

and you think biden calling a female asking a question a "lying dog" is not stupid?5 seconds on Google to find the explanation. FFS. https://www.vox.com/2020/2/10/21131327/biden-dog-faced-pony-soldier-new-hampshire

BroxburnHibee

13-08-2020, 10:36 AM

5 seconds on Google to find the explanation. FFS. https://www.vox.com/2020/2/10/21131327/biden-dog-faced-pony-soldier-new-hampshire

Wasting your time with Trump supporters.

bobbyhibs1983

13-08-2020, 11:50 AM

5 seconds on Google to find the explanation. FFS. https://www.vox.com/2020/2/10/21131327/biden-dog-faced-pony-soldier-new-hampshire

ok thanks will have a look

hibby rae

13-08-2020, 12:28 PM

JeMeSouviens

13-08-2020, 01:11 PM

Professor who's been right about every election since 1984 reveals his 2020 prediction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8FzVistDHY

He did claim Gore would win in 2000, but also states due to the issues in Florida e.g. voter exclusion, therefore there was electoral fraud.

The two caveats he places on the prediction being correct based on the model he uses is 1) If there is electoral fraud 2) Russian interference.

Anyway he predicts a Biden win this year.

Would you trust a prof with that outrageous syrup?https://static.fox13news.com/www.fox13news.com/content/uploads/2019/09/Still0926_00017_1474948529757_2077537_ver1.0.jpg

It's Michael Fabricant level!

Keith_M

13-08-2020, 02:32 PM

5 seconds on Google to find the explanation. FFS. https://www.vox.com/2020/2/10/21131327/biden-dog-faced-pony-soldier-new-hampshire

Sorry, but that doesn't really work for me as an 'explanation'.

He appears to have lost the rag with somebody that dared to ask a difficult question and, whatever the origin of the phrase he used, has decided to insult her and call her a liar.

On a more general point; I don't see any problem with people questioning the choice of Biden to compete with Trump in the next election. I don't think he's a particularly appealing choice and the only thing that's likely to win it for him is that he's not Trump... though that argument didn't work too well for Clinton.

Hibbyradge

13-08-2020, 02:41 PM

Sorry, but that doesn't really work for me as an 'explanation'.

He appears to have lost the rag with somebody that dared to ask a difficult question and, whatever the origin of the phrase he used, has decided to insult her and call her a liar.

On a more general point; I don't see any problem with people questioning the choice of Biden to compete with Trump in the next election. I don't think he's a particularly appealing choice and the only thing that's likely to win it for him is that he's not Trump... though that argument didn't work too well for Clinton.

I think you had to be there to get the nuance and inflection in his voice. The report says that people, including the subject of the remark, were laughing at his words.

He didn't lose his temper, he was joking about, and that was obvious to those present.

AT8

13-08-2020, 03:42 PM

I think you had to be there to get the nuance and inflection in his voice. The report says that people, including the subject of the remark, were laughing at his words.

He didn't lose his temper, he was joking about, and that was obvious to those present.

What about when Biden told a factory voter in Detroit that he was "full of s&%t" when questioning his policies regarding gun control?
What about when Biden challenged a senior citizen to a push up contest when asked if he was too old to be President?
What about when Biden told a black radio host that if you don't vote democrat, "then you aint black"?
What about when Biden asked a black interviewer if he was a junkie and if he had taken a drug test when asked if he (Biden) had taken a cognitive test, despite telling the world that he was regularly tested?

Ultimately, the voters are being presented with two morons to choose from and it will come down to whether you support Conservative or Liberal policies.

bigwheel

13-08-2020, 03:52 PM

What about when Biden told a factory voter in Detroit that he was "full of s&%t" when questioning his policies regarding gun control?
What about when Biden challenged a senior citizen to a push up contest when asked if he was too old to be President?
What about when Biden told a black radio host that if you don't vote democrat, "then you aint black"?
What about when Biden asked a black interviewer if he was a junkie and if he had taken a drug test when asked if he (Biden) had taken a cognitive test, despite telling the world that he was regularly tested?

Ultimately, the voters are being presented with two morons to choose from and it will come down to whether you support Conservative or Liberal policies.

your last sentence is definitely right, few will be moved by the stupid things that either have done. That said, you cant compare Biden and Trump as "two morons". Biden is a career senior politician. he has been credible in a senior political role since 1973. His statesman like qualities are off the scale compared to Trump.

CapitalGreen

13-08-2020, 03:52 PM

What about when Biden challenged a senior citizen to a push up contest when asked if he was too old to be President?

What’s wrong with this one?

AT8

13-08-2020, 04:01 PM

What’s wrong with this one?

I'm just highlighting his tendency to come out with ridiculous answers when faced with awkward questions.

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 04:05 PM

Obviously I hope Biden wins and removes this abominable administration from office. It's sad to see what's become of the contemporary Republican Party, as it's now a party of religious fundamentalists, gun nuts and conspiracy theory lunatics. I would never have supported them, but they have gone off the scale crazy in recent decades. It goes back to the seventies, when the religious right really got politically active, embraced by Reagan and his ilk. Then there was the anti-government Newt Gingrich movement of the early nineties. Right wing talk radio is massive over there, funded by billionaires like the Koch brothers. It's a toxic combination and it paved the way for Trump. Yet Donnie is different from his Republican predecessors, who were free marketeer conservatives. He is a white nationalist, who of course have a prominent place in American history via the KKK etc. True American conservatives, such as Barry Goldwater, once considered a dangerous extremist, would be appalled by Trump's anti-intellectualism and appeal to the far right. His administration's shameful concoction of climate change denial, race baiting and so many other ignorant policy positions is exemplified by its horrendous handling of the COVID situation in America. Money before lives is the policy.

I'm not a massive admirer of Biden, a man firmly in the mainstream of American imperialism who will not challenge the neoliberal dogma which has ruined millions of American families for forty years. However, he is at least sane and isn't a conman or a demagogue. There are rumours about his inappropriate behaviour towards women; no doubt details will emerge. What a mess America is in; it seems to be losing its mind. Perhaps it's partly due to a national existential crisis; a superpower about to be surpassed by China as the global giant. Whatever the cause, it's a tragic spectacle.

hibsbollah

13-08-2020, 04:06 PM

What about when Biden told a factory voter in Detroit that he was "full of s&%t" when questioning his policies regarding gun control?
What about when Biden challenged a senior citizen to a push up contest when asked if he was too old to be President?
What about when Biden told a black radio host that if you don't vote democrat, "then you aint black"?
What about when Biden asked a black interviewer if he was a junkie and if he had taken a drug test when asked if he (Biden) had taken a cognitive test, despite telling the world that he was regularly tested?

Ultimately, the voters are being presented with two morons to choose from and it will come down to whether you support Conservative or Liberal policies.

There is nothing ‘conservative’ about Donald Trump. If so, the word has lost its meaning.

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 04:13 PM

There is nothing ‘conservative’ about Donald Trump. If so, the word has lost its meaning.

:agree:

Exactly the point I made above. Trump has moved away from the small government, free trade conservatism and towards right wing, white nationalist populism; a very deep tradition with America.

AT8

13-08-2020, 04:32 PM

There is nothing ‘conservative’ about Donald Trump. If so, the word has lost its meaning.

OK, let me rephrase it. If you support Liberal policies, you'll vote for Biden. If you don't support Liberal policies, you'll grudgingly vote for Trump. This is why the current polls can't be relied upon as those who will grudgingly vote for Trump are unlikely to admit to it due to the stigma attached to it.

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 04:39 PM

AT8

13-08-2020, 04:42 PM

Would you class Biden as a U.S. liberal? When I think of those, I think of Franklin Roosevelt, Robert Kennedy, George McGovern, Lyndon Johnson. It seems to me Biden is way to the right of those.

Biden will go as far left as his handlers tell him to go.

hibsbollah

13-08-2020, 04:45 PM

Biden will go as far left as his handlers tell him to go.

‘Handlers’? Do you think The Squad controls Biden and are using him as a puppet? Do you believe in the Deep State? You are sounding quite the Quanon yourself.

RyeSloan

13-08-2020, 04:49 PM

OK, let me rephrase it. If you support Liberal policies, you'll vote for Biden. If you don't support Liberal policies, you'll grudgingly vote for Trump. This is why the current polls can't be relied upon as those who will grudgingly vote for Trump are unlikely to admit to it due to the stigma attached to it.

It’s funny how the word liberal has been somehow appropriated in the US as something to be feared.

To me liberalism means many of the things that I would have expected many Americans to have supported...the right to free speech, small government or at least the restriction on governments to interfere with an individuals rights to their beliefs (be that religion or anything else). I’d also suggest that liberalism also extends to the support of free markets (again by denying central bodies overarching powers) as well a civil and human rights.

I assume you have a rather different view of what liberal policies are so I’d be interested to hear how you would define them and why you are so dead set against them.

grunt

13-08-2020, 04:53 PM

grunt

13-08-2020, 04:55 PM

If you don't support Liberal policies, you'll grudgingly vote for Trump.If you vote for Trump, grudgingly or not, you're either an idiot, a sociopath, or a crook.

In my opinion.

AT8

13-08-2020, 04:58 PM

It’s funny how the word liberal has been somehow appropriated in the US as something to be feared.

To me liberalism means many of the things that I would have expected many Americans to have supported...the right to free speech, small government or at least the restriction on governments to interfere with an individuals rights to their beliefs (be that religion or anything else). I’d also suggest that liberalism also extends to the support of free markets (again by denying central bodies overarching powers) as well a civil and human rights.

I assume you have a rather different view of what liberal policies are so I’d be interested to hear how you would define them and why you are so dead set against them.

I think the meaning of the word has been misappropriated in the US. Basically, anything the Democrats propose is labeled as being liberal.

AT8

13-08-2020, 04:59 PM

If you vote for Trump, grudgingly or not, you're either an idiot, a sociopath, or a crook.

In my opinion.

So if you don't wish to have Biden as your President, you're an idiot, sociopath or a crook? I don't think so.

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 05:03 PM

So if you don't wish to have Biden as your President, you're an idiot, sociopath or a crook? I don't think so.

If the alternative is Donald Trump, it has to be a possibility.

AT8

13-08-2020, 05:05 PM

If the alternative is Donald Trump, it has to be a possibility.

How so? If you don't want a Biden Presidency, what are you supposed to do?

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 05:07 PM

How so? If you don't want a Biden Presidency, what are you supposed to do?

Not vote for someone infinitely worse. As I said before, Biden isn't my ideal candidate, but this is a two horse race. It's him or Trump.

AT8

13-08-2020, 05:10 PM

Not vote for someone infinitely worse. As I said before, Biden isn't my ideal candidate, but this is a two horse race. It's him or Trump.

Exactly, so it's unfair to label people idiots or crooks choosing Trump.

lapsedhibee

13-08-2020, 05:11 PM

How so? If you don't want a Biden Presidency, what are you supposed to do?

Are you now hinting that you vote for Trump only because his opponents are so appalling? :dunno:

AT8

13-08-2020, 05:17 PM

Are you now hinting that you vote for Trump only because his opponents are so appalling? :dunno:

Not at all. I vote for Trump because I like the policies. I will admit that he's an arse, but he's the leader of the Republican party so I don't have much choice in the matter. Independents who are sick and tired of the anarchy and destruction going on in America will be the ones who grudgingly vote for Trump.

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 05:19 PM

Exactly, so it's unfair to label people idiots or crooks choosing Trump.

I disagree. One is far from ideal, in my opinion, but the other is an abomination! Morally unfit and intellectually unqualified.

grunt

13-08-2020, 05:24 PM

I vote for Trump because I like the policies.I wonder if you would mind telling us which of Trump's policies you support?

AT8

13-08-2020, 05:33 PM

I wonder if you would mind telling us which of Trump's policies you support?

Strong borders and a clampdown on illegal immigration.
Law and order - doing whatever it takes to stop the riots and destruction.
Travel bans on countries that don't have their own sufficient vetting process.
Tax cuts.
Protecting the 2nd amendment.

Hiber-nation

13-08-2020, 05:37 PM

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 05:38 PM

Strong borders and a clampdown on illegal immigration.
Law and order - doing whatever it takes to stop the riots and destruction.
Travel bans on countries that don't have their own sufficient vetting process.
Tax cuts.
Protecting the 2nd amendment.

https://media.giphy.com/media/H315tBsDtcGCk/giphy.gif

Are you American or a very right wing ex-pat? :greengrin

AT8

13-08-2020, 05:41 PM

https://media.giphy.com/media/H315tBsDtcGCk/giphy.gif

Are you American or a very right wing ex-pat? :greengrin

Why is it that when you support common sense policies, you get labeled right wing?

hibsbollah

13-08-2020, 05:41 PM

Strong borders and a clampdown on illegal immigration.
Law and order - doing whatever it takes to stop the riots and destruction.
Travel bans on countries that don't have their own sufficient vetting process.
Tax cuts.
Protecting the 2nd amendment.

‘A clampdown’ isn’t conservative. All those policies could equally be described as components of a fascist state as a conservative one.

In an ideal world, would you prefer a more moderate Republican to Trump? Jed Bush, Colin Powell, that Kasich guy? Or is that too moderate? Genuine question.

hibsbollah

13-08-2020, 05:43 PM

Why is it that when you support common sense policies, you get labeled right wing?

But you ARE right wing :dunno: :dunno: Is that something to be ashamed of?

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 05:43 PM

Why is it that when you support common sense policies, you get labeled right wing?

Perhaps because what you are advocating is right wing? You can't vote for Trump, citing the policies you admire, then say you aren't right wing. That wouldn't make any sense.

AT8

13-08-2020, 05:45 PM

But you ARE right wing :dunno: :dunno: Is that something to be ashamed of?

If believing in common sense policies makes me right wing, then so be it. I'm not ashamed of anything.

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 05:48 PM

If believing in common sense policies makes me right wing, then so be it. I'm not ashamed of anything.

Who decides what is 'common sense'. Tom Paine, one of my heroes, was hardly right wing :wink:

hibsbollah

13-08-2020, 05:53 PM

If believing in common sense policies makes me right wing, then so be it. I'm not ashamed of anything.

What is defined as Common Sense varies from person to person.

You seem to be a wee bit defensive. And you’re doing much better explaining what you don’t like politically than what you actually do like.

AT8

13-08-2020, 05:56 PM

Who decides what is 'common sense'. Tom Paine, one of my heroes, was hardly right wing :wink:

Well, when we have an abundance of homeless, unemployed Americans (many of which are veterans) I would call it common sense to stop illegals entering the country.

When you have rioters destroying out cities, I would call it common sense to put a stop to it.

When you have countries (many of which are a hotbed for terrorism) that don't have the ability to correctly vet their own citizens, I would call it common sense to not allow them in.

When you have one party proposing tax increases to fund socialist programs, I would call it common sense to oppose that.

There really is no easy way to address the gun problem in America, but I do know that disarming law abiding citizens is a disaster waiting to happen.

Smartie

13-08-2020, 06:01 PM

Strong borders and a clampdown on illegal immigration.
Law and order - doing whatever it takes to stop the riots and destruction.
Travel bans on countries that don't have their own sufficient vetting process.
Tax cuts.
Protecting the 2nd amendment.

If believing in common sense policies makes me right wing, then so be it. I'm not ashamed of anything.

Tax cuts - where does the money come from to keep the borders secure and the bogeymen out?
Tax cuts - who pays for the police, to do "whatever it takes" to stop riots and destruction?
The 2nd amendment - the fact that guns are everywhere means that the police force you are not prepared to pay for have an f'ing nightmare knowing that every time they pitch up at any protest they might get shot in the face, therefore they are understandably twitchy, therefore they cause more riots when they "shoot first, ask questions later" ie doing whatever it takes...

America is mental. So much about it I love. SO much about it I just cannot get my head around.

I think the USA is on an irreversible slide to a very, very bad place right now.

CapitalGreen

13-08-2020, 06:03 PM

AT8

13-08-2020, 06:05 PM

So the solution to stopping the rioting is to re-elect the guy who allowed the rioting to get out of hand in the first place? 🤪

Based on his sh*t performance in that regard thus far, why do you think he would fare better with a second term?

Eh, it was the weak Democrat leadership in those cities that let it get out of hand.

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 06:07 PM

Well, when we have an abundance of homeless, unemployed Americans (many of which are veterans) I would call it common sense to stop illegals entering the country.

When you have rioters destroying out cities, I would call it common sense to put a stop to it.

When you have countries (many of which are a hotbed for terrorism) that don't have the ability to correctly vet their own citizens, I would call it common sense to not allow them in.

When you have one party proposing tax increases to fund socialist programs, I would call it common sense to oppose that.

There really is no easy way to address the gun problem in America, but I do know that disarming law abiding citizens is a disaster waiting to happen.

I find your logic baffling, but of course you are entitled to vote for whoever you wish. 'Tax increases for socialist programmes', like free public education, free public libraries, free roads to drive on, free parks to walk in? I would say free health care here in the UK, but in America thousands of families are forced into bankruptcy every year because of medical costs. My views are diametrically opposed to yours, but that's democracy. We will never agree, so must agree to differ.

bigwheel

13-08-2020, 06:22 PM

Well, when we have an abundance of homeless, unemployed Americans (many of which are veterans) I would call it common sense to stop illegals entering the country.

When you have rioters destroying out cities, I would call it common sense to put a stop to it.

When you have countries (many of which are a hotbed for terrorism) that don't have the ability to correctly vet their own citizens, I would call it common sense to not allow them in.

When you have one party proposing tax increases to fund socialist programs, I would call it common sense to oppose that.

There really is no easy way to address the gun problem in America, but I do know that disarming law abiding citizens is a disaster waiting to happen.

You don’t care about why people feel so victimised they protest and riot. You only want to stop the reaction, not fix the root cause . You use “socialist programmes“ that are about dignity and fairness as a pejorative term....I so hope your side loses big in the election ..bring ethics and good values back to your government , rather than prejudice and greed.

AT8

13-08-2020, 06:27 PM

You don’t care about why people feel so victimised they protest and riot. You only want to stop the reaction, not fix the root cause . You use “socialist programmes“ that are about dignity and fairness as a pejorative term....I so hope your side loses big in the election ..bring ethics and good values back to your government , rather than prejudice and greed.

Look, I'm all for empathy and compassion, but it get's to the point where it becomes unmanageable and we have to draw the line somewhere. It would be great if we could all come together to make sure that every person in the world is taken care of but that's just a dream. All I'm saying is that we have to respect law and order and reward hard work.

bigwheel

13-08-2020, 06:29 PM

hibsbollah

13-08-2020, 06:46 PM

Well, when we have an abundance of homeless, unemployed Americans (many of which are veterans) I would call it common sense to stop illegals entering the country.

When you have rioters destroying out cities, I would call it common sense to put a stop to it.

When you have countries (many of which are a hotbed for terrorism) that don't have the ability to correctly vet their own citizens, I would call it common sense to not allow them in.

When you have one party proposing tax increases to fund socialist programs, I would call it common sense to oppose that.

There really is no easy way to address the gun problem in America, but I do know that disarming law abiding citizens is a disaster waiting to happen.

I think this proves the point that Common Sense is meaningless as a position to argue from.

In my world it’s the opposite of common sense to lock children up in cages away from their families for trying to come to your country to make a contribution to your economy. The kind of immigration that fueled your country’s rise to global superpower, of course.

In my world, taxing the billionaire class to fund education, public health, clean air is common sense.

On Foreign policy, don’t even start me. Making friends with dictators and breaking ties with democratic regimes across the world? Bashing NATO? This is the polar opposite of traditional conservative Republican behaviour. A total abandonment of the post war consensus. Not common sense to me, sorry.

grunt

13-08-2020, 06:56 PM

Fair play to you and thank you for replying. You're in the minority on this thread but you've stuck around and are engaging debate, so thank you for that.

Strong borders and a clampdown on illegal immigration.I don't think I can complain about the need to manage borders. We're making an enormous mess of it here in the UK. But I do criticise the way it is being done in the US - the heavy-handedness of ICE, the appalling conditions that the migrants are kept in, and the forced separation of families and the treatment of children is shameful, IMO.

Law and order - doing whatever it takes to stop the riots and destruction.As others have pointed out, just bashing people with sticks and implementing martial law, without doing anything at all to address the underlying causes of the rioting will just make people riot more.

And tell me, did you have this level of social unrest under Obama, or is it something that seems to have blossomed under Trump?

Travel bans on countries that don't have their own sufficient vetting process.Now here I think you're very sweetly talking about Muslims - the great Muslim invasion of the US? But isn't it true that something like 98% of terrorist activities in the US over the last four years have been carried out by right wing terrorists? Are you directing your anger outward, rather than looking for the problem in your midst?

Tax cuts.Again, as pointed out by others, you can't have clampdowns and riot policing for free - you have to pay for it somehow. And also, isn't it the case that under Trump's vaunted tax cuts, the vast majority of the tax saved has been saved by the very very rich? I'm pretty sure my US friends - ordinary folks - tell me the tax cuts they are seeing are nothing to write home about.

Protecting the 2nd amendment.I've spoken about this at length, and I'm sure people are sick of me going on about it. But there's nothing sacred about the 2nd Amendment. You should just get rid of it, and work from there to reduce the violence in US society. It's an amendment for goodness sake. That should give you a broad hint that it can be amended again.

I'm fascinated by America. I have some friends there and my trips to the US have been among the highlights of my life. But I'm so sad to see it descending into chaos, and I lay the blame for that chaos at the door of just one man - Trump.

JeMeSouviens

13-08-2020, 06:59 PM

grunt

13-08-2020, 07:00 PM

On Foreign policy, don’t even start me. Making friends with dictators and breaking ties with democratic regimes across the world? Bashing NATO? This is the polar opposite of traditional conservative Republican behaviour. A total abandonment of the post war consensus. Not common sense to me, sorry.So much going on, I'd completely forgotten about this. Good points, well made.

Hibernia&Alba

13-08-2020, 07:10 PM

Fair play to you and thank you for replying. You're in the minority on this thread but you've stuck around and are engaging debate, so thank you for that.
I don't think I can complain about the need to manage borders. We're making an enormous mess of it here in the UK. But I do criticise the way it is being done in the US - the heavy-handedness of ICE, the appalling conditions that the migrants are kept in, and the forced separation of families and the treatment of children is shameful, IMO.

As others have pointed out, just bashing people with sticks and implementing martial law, without doing anything at all to address the underlying causes of the rioting will just make people riot more.

And tell me, did you have this level of social unrest under Obama, or is it something that seems to have blossomed under Trump?

Now here I think you're very sweetly talking about Muslims - the great Muslim invasion of the US? But isn't it true that something like 98% of terrorist activities in the US over the last four years have been carried out by right wing terrorists? Are you directing your anger outward, rather than looking for the problem in your midst?

Again, as pointed out by others, you can't have clampdowns and riot policing for free - you have to pay for it somehow. And also, isn't it the case that under Trump's vaunted tax cuts, the vast majority of the tax saved has been saved by the very very rich? I'm pretty sure my US friends - ordinary folks - tell me the tax cuts they are seeing are nothing to write home about.

I've spoken about this at length, and I'm sure people are sick of me going on about it. But there's nothing sacred about the 2nd Amendment. You should just get rid of it, and work from there to reduce the violence in US society. It's an amendment for goodness sake. That should give you a broad hint that it can be amended again.

I'm fascinated by America. I have some friends there and my trips to the US have been among the highlights of my life. But I'm so sad to see it descending into chaos, and I lay the blame for that chaos at the door of just one man - Trump.

I fully agree, grunt. Great post. :top marks

Hibrandenburg

13-08-2020, 07:26 PM

If you vote for Trump, grudgingly or not, you're either an idiot, a sociopath, or a crook.

In my opinion.

Yep, I don't accept there is any middle ground to supporting fascists.

Tobias Funke

14-08-2020, 12:12 AM

https://youtu.be/baxTQXp80Kw

What Trump is attempting to do to the US postal service is a monumental scandal in the making.

Is it possible, and bear in mind just how much of an empathy lacking sociopath Trump is, that he’s deliberately allowed the coronavirus to spread like wildfire knowing the many Democratic voting areas would wish to vote via mail in ballots and is now doing his best to decimate the US postal service and suppress democrat votes?

I genuinely think he’s that much of a psycho that he’d allow tens of thousands of Americans to die just to fudge an election in his favour.

Ozyhibby

14-08-2020, 05:36 AM

Keith_M

14-08-2020, 09:02 AM

Look, I'm all for empathy and compassion, but it get's to the point where it becomes unmanageable and we have to draw the line somewhere. It would be great if we could all come together to make sure that every person in the world is taken care of but that's just a dream. All I'm saying is that we have to respect law and order and reward hard work.

Basically, you don't want to personally have to pay higher taxes that would help provide healthcare, housing, etc for those that are less fortunate than yourself.

Also, and correct me if this is wrong, your opinion is that anyone that is in need of assistance obviously just didn't work hard enough.

You yourself are an immigrant into the USA, a country built on around three centuries of immigration, but you want to restrict other people's opportunities to go there.

You think that a country that has one of the highest levels of gun crime in the developed world should continue to have a law... written in the era of the Wild West... that allows almost any citizen to pop down to their local Walmart and buy a machine gun.

You know, just writing all that make me want to play The Star Spangled Banner, with my hand on my heart, and salute the US Flag.

McD

14-08-2020, 10:49 AM

Strong borders and a clampdown on illegal immigration.
Law and order - doing whatever it takes to stop the riots and destruction.
Travel bans on countries that don't have their own sufficient vetting process.
Tax cuts.
Protecting the 2nd amendment.

Doing whatever it takes? Who gets to make that distinction? For example, if Trump decided that 'whatever it takes' includes simply opening fire into crowds of people, you would support that?

Also, what would the country be vetting? and do you mean travel bans for Americans to these countries, or their population travelling to America? I'm unsure what you mean

McD

14-08-2020, 10:52 AM

Tax cuts - where does the money come from to keep the borders secure and the bogeymen out?
Tax cuts - who pays for the police, to do "whatever it takes" to stop riots and destruction?
The 2nd amendment - the fact that guns are everywhere means that the police force you are not prepared to pay for have an f'ing nightmare knowing that every time they pitch up at any protest they might get shot in the face, therefore they are understandably twitchy, therefore they cause more riots when they "shoot first, ask questions later" ie doing whatever it takes...

America is mental. So much about it I love. SO much about it I just cannot get my head around.

I think the USA is on an irreversible slide to a very, very bad place right now.

This is exactly my thoughts and feelings

hibby rae

14-08-2020, 11:24 AM

Well, when we have an abundance of homeless, unemployed Americans (many of which are veterans) I would call it common sense to stop illegals entering the country.

When you have rioters destroying out cities, I would call it common sense to put a stop to it.

When you have countries (many of which are a hotbed for terrorism) that don't have the ability to correctly vet their own citizens, I would call it common sense to not allow them in.

When you have one party proposing tax increases to fund socialist programs, I would call it common sense to oppose that.

There really is no easy way to address the gun problem in America, but I do know that disarming law abiding citizens is a disaster waiting to happen.

How does homelessness correlate with illegal immigration? I work for a homelessness charity and can state illegal immigration is not a cause of homelessness.

Also, can you explain your fear of socialism? I genuinely think a lot of Americans don't actually understand what it is. The Second World War was won by governments adopting socialism. The NHS was created by socialism.

Making the 1 per cent pay more tax to fund health care for all seems logical to me.

AT8

14-08-2020, 03:46 PM

Can’t remember the rioting being as bad under Obama?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ferguson and Baltimore? The difference now is that the mainstream media has managed to convince the masses that the Police are indeed racist and seek to go out of their way to gun down innocent black men, despite this myth being proven false.

AT8

14-08-2020, 03:59 PM

Basically, you don't want to personally have to pay higher taxes that would help provide healthcare, housing, etc for those that are less fortunate than yourself.

Also, and correct me if this is wrong, your opinion is that anyone that is in need of assistance obviously just didn't work hard enough.

You yourself are an immigrant into the USA, a country built on around three centuries of immigration, but you want to restrict other people's opportunities to go there.

You think that a country that has one of the highest levels of gun crime in the developed world should continue to have a law... written in the era of the Wild West... that allows almost any citizen to pop down to their local Walmart and buy a machine gun.

You know, just writing all that make me want to play The Star Spangled Banner, with my hand on my heart, and salute the US Flag.

Welfare as a short term solution is something I'm in favor of. The problem is, a number of Americans see welfare as a career path funded by us idiots that pay taxes, and don't get me started on the Democrat's wish of giving benefits to illegals.

I am a LEGAL immigrant which is always available to those who qualify. It's been a very long time, but my path to US Citizenship cost me in excess of $6,000 and my wife's current green card process has already set us back over $4,000. Aside from the monetary cost, we could not leave the country while my wife's application was being processed meaning we missed out on a number of significant family events overseas. That is why I'm against illegal immigration. Do you think it's right that I've had to fork out all that hard earned cash to do things legally while others can just jump the border?

First of all, Walmart don't sell machine guns and for that matter, a citizen cannot legally purchase a machine gun anywhere, but I think you already knew that. I would love it if guns were outlawed and we could stop the number of shootings we see in this country, but here's the problem.....let's say we pass a law that bans all guns, it sounds simple , right? Criminals, by their very nature do not obey the laws, therefore, they will not turn in their guns and knowing that the law abiding folks are no longer armed, they will have free reign to run riot and crime rates will go through the roof. I know it's not an ideal solution, but keeping law abiding citizens armed is a means to deterring criminals chancing their luck.

AT8

14-08-2020, 04:06 PM

Doing whatever it takes? Who gets to make that distinction? For example, if Trump decided that 'whatever it takes' includes simply opening fire into crowds of people, you would support that?

Also, what would the country be vetting? and do you mean travel bans for Americans to these countries, or their population travelling to America? I'm unsure what you mean

Yes doing whatever it takes. These anarchists are out of control and us law abiding citizens should not be subjected to their destruction and looting. Peaceful protest is a wonderful thing and should be encouraged but when you start attacking the police and destroying innocent businesses, you deserve whatever force you're met with.

You know fine well what I mean about vetting. A number of these less developed nations are unable, or perhaps unwilling, to properly vet their own citizens meaning the ability of those wishing to harm the US goes unvetted. I for one don't want these types arriving in my country. And for the record, I'm not suggesting that all travelers from Somalia or Syria are terrorists, but why take that chance?

grunt

14-08-2020, 04:11 PM

And for the record, I'm not suggesting that all travelers from Somalia or Syria are terrorists, but why take that chance?

Are you for real? [emoji23]

AT8

14-08-2020, 04:12 PM

How does homelessness correlate with illegal immigration? I work for a homelessness charity and can state illegal immigration is not a cause of homelessness.

Also, can you explain your fear of socialism? I genuinely think a lot of Americans don't actually understand what it is. The Second World War was won by governments adopting socialism. The NHS was created by socialism.

Making the 1 per cent pay more tax to fund health care for all seems logical to me.

We obviously don't have the resources to protect our own citizens, so why would allow more people to come in illegally and add to the burden?

I've never understood this argument that the "wealthy need to pay their fair share". I myself am anything but wealthy, but I believe everyone should pay the same tax rate. In simple terms, 10% of someone earning $1,000 is as fair as someone paying 10% taxes on earnings of $100,000. Why would you want to punish success and hard work? Surely you want to incentivize success, not punish it.

AT8

14-08-2020, 04:13 PM

Are you for real? [emoji23]

Very much.

hibsbollah

14-08-2020, 04:19 PM

Very much.

Returning to my earlier point, You must know how extreme you sound? You must know the things you are saying are very right wing. Yet you’re complaining about being labeled as such. Why? And why don’t you accept that just because your extremism is common sense to you it isn’t common sense to me and millions of others? Do you have an explanation for that? To be honest, with your views I think you’d be a more dangerous immigrant to a country I live in than someone from Sudan or Somalia who wants to come to my country for a better life.

grunt

14-08-2020, 04:21 PM

We obviously don't have the resources to protect our own citizens, so why would allow more people to come in illegally and add to the burden?.

You're the richest country on Earth!

AT8

14-08-2020, 04:35 PM

Returning to my earlier point, You must know how extreme you sound? You must know the things you are saying are very right wing. Yet you’re complaining about being labeled as such. Why? And why don’t you accept that just because your extremism is common sense to you it isn’t common sense to me and millions of others? Do you have an explanation for that? To be honest, with your views I think you’d be a more dangerous immigrant to a country I live in than someone from Sudan or Somalia who wants to come to my country for a better life.

I've never given any consideration to what my views would be labeled as, but if you think it's right wing, then so be it. Why would I be considered a dangerous immigrant when I don't engage in criminal conduct, pay my taxes and very much keep to myself? I've done nothing to harm an other person and go out of my way to help those that need my help, within reason.

AT8

14-08-2020, 04:35 PM

You're the richest country on Earth!

So we should just allow every man and his dog in so we can take care of them?

bigwheel

14-08-2020, 05:38 PM

Ferguson and Baltimore? The difference now is that the mainstream media has managed to convince the masses that the Police are indeed racist and seek to go out of their way to gun down innocent black men, despite this myth being proven false.

No mainstream media proposes what you suggest. They do however flag up unfairness and deep inequality. Which you show no interest or compassion about. Quite a lot of right wing media outline what you believe mind you, so obviously the media influence does work...

Hibrandenburg

14-08-2020, 05:46 PM

Welfare as a short term solution is something I'm in favor of. The problem is, a number of Americans see welfare as a career path funded by us idiots that pay taxes, and don't get me started on the Democrat's wish of giving benefits to illegals.

I am a LEGAL immigrant which is always available to those who qualify. It's been a very long time, but my path to US Citizenship cost me in excess of $6,000 and my wife's current green card process has already set us back over $4,000. Aside from the monetary cost, we could not leave the country while my wife's application was being processed meaning we missed out on a number of significant family events overseas. That is why I'm against illegal immigration. Do you think it's right that I've had to fork out all that hard earned cash to do things legally while others can just jump the border?

First of all, Walmart don't sell machine guns and for that matter, a citizen cannot legally purchase a machine gun anywhere, but I think you already knew that. I would love it if guns were outlawed and we could stop the number of shootings we see in this country, but here's the problem.....let's say we pass a law that bans all guns, it sounds simple , right? Criminals, by their very nature do not obey the laws, therefore, they will not turn in their guns and knowing that the law abiding folks are no longer armed, they will have free reign to run riot and crime rates will go through the roof. I know it's not an ideal solution, but keeping law abiding citizens armed is a means to deterring criminals chancing their luck.

I too am a legal immigrant and I too have invested money in obtaining that citizenship. I'm not however so conceited to believe that makes me better than any other human being and more worthy than someone who more than likely risked more than money to try and gain a better life for themselves and maybe their families. Just because you were in the lucky position to basically buy citizenship doesn't make you a better person or even citizen. Just reading your posts makes you sound like a transatlantic Alf Garnett on steroids.

AT8

14-08-2020, 05:49 PM

I too am a legal immigrant and I too have invested money in obtaining that citizenship. I'm not however so conceited to believe that makes me better than any other human being and more worthy than someone who more than likely risked more than money to try and gain a better life for themselves and maybe their families. Just because you were in the lucky position to basically buy citizenship doesn't make you a better person or even citizen. Just reading your posts makes you sound like a transatlantic Alf Garnett on steroids.

I've never claimed to be a better person. I'm simply pointing out that there are laws in place regarding immigration and those who follow those laws should not be made to look like fools for doing so.

bigwheel

14-08-2020, 05:53 PM

I've never claimed to be a better person. I'm simply pointing out that there are laws in place regarding immigration and those who follow those laws should not be made to look like fools for doing so.

I've never read one post from you that seeks to look at the world from the side of the poor, the abused, the oppressed.. They are always in the wrong....

jonty

14-08-2020, 05:56 PM

:hijack:

Cant we keep the thread on track please.:aok:

pretty please.

AT8

14-08-2020, 05:57 PM

I've never read one post from you that seeks to look at the world from the side of the poor, the abused, the oppressed.. They are always in the wrong....

I've never said they are in the wrong. What I have said is that we have laws in place that must be followed. You may not agree with certain laws, just as there are some laws I don't agree with, but at the end of the day, if laws are not followed, we devolve into anarchy.

hibsbollah

14-08-2020, 06:03 PM

I've never given any consideration to what my views would be labeled as, but if you think it's right wing, then so be it. Why would I be considered a dangerous immigrant when I don't engage in criminal conduct, pay my taxes and very much keep to myself? I've done nothing to harm an other person and go out of my way to help those that need my help, within reason.

To be fair, we only have your word for the crime and taxes thing. The Sudanese and Somalian might well pay his taxes and not be a criminal either.

Lets see, imagine I have your refugee paperwork in front of me here. Mr NYC. You are a political extremist, you support a racist dictator. You like guns. You have shown no signs of empathy at any point in your written submissions, and lack of empathy as we know is a common sign of possible psychopathy. I don’t want a gun toting borderline psychopath running about. It’s ‘common sense’ to deny you access to my hypothetical country. Access denied.

bigwheel

14-08-2020, 06:04 PM

I've never said they are in the wrong. What I have said is that we have laws in place that must be followed. You may not agree with certain laws, just as there are some laws I don't agree with, but at the end of the day, if laws are not followed, we devolve into anarchy.

you've only ever implied they are in the wrong - in almost every post. It's about control, governance, "doing anything that needs to be done". Nobody is challenging laws. It's only a topic for you. Others are talking about helping people keep some dignity, find safety, fighting inequality...Your position is "as long as I'm alright jack, the others need to stay within the law and not make too much noise about their lot". You perhaps don't realise it, but that is exactly how you come over NYC. It's so sad to read thats how people think out there. Devastating actually. I honestly hope you never find yourself in desperate need of a helping hand, you would be in such shock...

Rocky

14-08-2020, 06:16 PM

:hijack:

Cant we keep the thread on track please.:aok:

pretty please.
To be honest I think it's very much on track. It's certainly helped me to understand how Trump got into power and the types of people that might see him returned to power. It's quite chilling.

jonty

14-08-2020, 06:41 PM

To be honest I think it's very much on track. It's certainly helped me to understand how Trump got into power and the types of people that might see him returned to power. It's quite chilling.

I enjoy the debates and points of view but its not about the 2020 election though.
Theres a separate trump thread and umpteen conspiracy, left-wing and right-wing threads.

hibsbollah

14-08-2020, 06:49 PM

I enjoy the debates and points of view but its not about the 2020 election though.
Theres a separate trump thread and umpteen conspiracy, left-wing and right-wing threads.

Agreed.

Rocky

14-08-2020, 06:55 PM

I enjoy the debates and points of view but its not about the 2020 election though.
Theres a separate trump thread and umpteen conspiracy, left-wing and right-wing threads.

Fair enough, it seemed more relevant to the thread title to me than Viscount biscuits are to exam results but point taken.

hibsbollah

14-08-2020, 06:57 PM

Fair enough, it seemed more relevant to the thread title to me than Viscount biscuits are to exam results but point taken.

I have previous for digression, I admit it.

Rocky

14-08-2020, 07:00 PM

I have previous for digression, I admit it.

Ha, was it you that claimed Viscounts were an abomination? I thought you mostly posted sensible stuff.

hibsbollah

14-08-2020, 07:07 PM

Ha, was it you that claimed Viscounts were an abomination? I thought you mostly posted sensible stuff.

wait till I start on Blue Ribands :greengrin

...edit Sorry, I’m staying on topic from now on

jonty

14-08-2020, 07:08 PM

Fair enough, it seemed more relevant to the thread title to me than Viscount biscuits are to exam results but point taken.

true - but dont let us lower you to our level :greengrin

In other news
"President Trump and first lady Melania Trump have both requested mail-in ballots for the upcoming Florida primaries despite the president's frequent criticism of mail-in ballot systems. "
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/511969-trump-requests-mail-in-ballot-for-florida-primary-after-railing

AT8

14-08-2020, 07:14 PM

true - but dont let us lower you to our level :greengrin

In other news
"President Trump and first lady Melania Trump have both requested mail-in ballots for the upcoming Florida primaries despite the president's frequent criticism of mail-in ballot systems. "
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/511969-trump-requests-mail-in-ballot-for-florida-primary-after-railing

Absentee ballots have to be requested which is entirely different to having mail-in ballots sent out to everyone on the voter registry (including dead people).

jonty

14-08-2020, 07:24 PM

Absentee ballots have to be requested which is entirely different to having mail-in ballots sent out to everyone on the voter registry (including dead people).

but they have to be returned. through the post.?

https://t.co/cDTJeTfqIs
"Breaking via WaPo: The U.S. Postal Service recently sent detailed letters to *46* states and D.C. warning that it cannot guarantee all ballots cast by mail for the November election will arrive in time to be counted."

"JUST IN: Postal workers are sounding the alarm as mail sorting machines are getting removed without an explanation.

Congress must act immediately and exercise the full force of its powers to stop the sabotage of the USPS before it’s too late."
@RBReich

Somethings up.

hibsbollah

14-08-2020, 07:31 PM

This is a good nerdy resource

https://ig.ft.com/us-election-2020/ (https://ig.ft.com/us-election-2020/)

Texas, Arizona, Pennsylvania just some states worth looking at for key swings in a blue direction from 2012 and 2016

AT8

14-08-2020, 07:34 PM

but they have to be returned. through the post.?

https://t.co/cDTJeTfqIs
"Breaking via WaPo: The U.S. Postal Service recently sent detailed letters to *46* states and D.C. warning that it cannot guarantee all ballots cast by mail for the November election will arrive in time to be counted."

"JUST IN: Postal workers are sounding the alarm as mail sorting machines are getting removed without an explanation.

Congress must act immediately and exercise the full force of its powers to stop the sabotage of the USPS before it’s too late."
@RBReich

Somethings up.

Ultimately, if you feel safe enough to line up to go into Walmart, you should feel safe enough to vote in person. Mass voting by mail is open to all sorts of abuse which is why the Democrats are pushing for this as they will do anything to take control of the country.

Rocky

14-08-2020, 07:45 PM

Ultimately, if you feel safe enough to line up to go into Walmart, you should feel safe enough to vote in person. Mass voting by mail is open to all sorts of abuse which is why the Democrats are pushing for this as they will do anything to take control of the country.

I'm not really sure how to ask this question politely but I'm honestly interested in the answer so I hope you'll take it in the spirit in which it's intended. Were you this right wing and easily manipulated before you emigrated or do you think it's a product of people you associate with since you got there? The reason I'm interested is to understand how this kind of groupthink influences the upcoming election result.

AT8

14-08-2020, 07:58 PM

I'm not really sure how to ask this question politely but I'm honestly interested in the answer so I hope you'll take it in the spirit in which it's intended. Were you this right wing and easily manipulated before you emigrated or do you think it's a product of people you associate with since you got there? The reason I'm interested is to understand how this kind of groupthink influences the upcoming election result.

I had zero interest in politics until I came to America. In fact, it wasn't until I became a citizen that I began taking an interest. In all honesty, I hate what I've become since taking an interest as I get consumed with the news and some of what I see going on makes my blood boil, which is not good for my health. My wife and I are currently planning on moving to Thailand and if that comes to fruition, I will go back to being oblivious to politics and just enjoying a peaceful, blissful life.

Rocky

14-08-2020, 08:05 PM

AT8

14-08-2020, 08:06 PM

Thanks, I appreciate the answer, I understand it would be easy to take offence at what I asked.

Not at all, the question wasn't offensive in any way.

CapitalGreen

14-08-2020, 08:16 PM

Smartie

14-08-2020, 08:20 PM

I had zero interest in politics until I came to America. In fact, it wasn't until I became a citizen that I began taking an interest. In all honesty, I hate what I've become since taking an interest as I get consumed with the news and some of what I see going on makes my blood boil, which is not good for my health. My wife and I are currently planning on moving to Thailand and if that comes to fruition, I will go back to being oblivious to politics and just enjoying a peaceful, blissful life.

There’s a lot I can relate to in this post.

I was happier when I paid less attention and in many ways I’d like to go back there.

I think I probably disagree with you on just about everything politically, but I salute the fact that you’ve fought your corner, backed up your opinions and stood your ground under some tough questioning.

Politics in America does seem to reflect the country right now - angry, confrontational, brash, pretty distasteful tbh, and reacting to that with opinions like yours are perhaps not a surprise.

I think this wee exchange has been bang on topic and I’ve found it insightful understanding why someone who is actually going to have the real life option of voting for Trump in the 2020 election might choose to do so.

McD

14-08-2020, 08:41 PM

Yes doing whatever it takes. These anarchists are out of control and us law abiding citizens should not be subjected to their destruction and looting. Peaceful protest is a wonderful thing and should be encouraged but when you start attacking the police and destroying innocent businesses, you deserve whatever force you're met with.

You know fine well what I mean about vetting. A number of these less developed nations are unable, or perhaps unwilling, to properly vet their own citizens meaning the ability of those wishing to harm the US goes unvetted. I for one don't want these types arriving in my country. And for the record, I'm not suggesting that all travelers from Somalia or Syria are terrorists, but why take that chance?

thanks for replying.

I genuinely didn’t know what you meant by vetting, so again thank you for clarifying.

whilst I understand now what you mean by lack of vetting, I also think it’s fair comment that a lot of acts that could be considered terrorism are carried out by Americans, such as the all too frequent shooting sprees in schools etc. That’s not a dig at your point btw, just a sad reflection that there are also many people capable of such actions who have lived and grown in America.

I do think it’s a bit harsh to tar all people from particular countries as potential terrorists, which is kind of what you’re doing when you say ‘why take the chance?’. Especially when many people from those countries in particular are more likely to be refugees than terrorists.

Hibbyradge

14-08-2020, 09:32 PM

What about when Biden told a factory voter in Detroit that he was "full of s&%t" when questioning his policies regarding gun control?
What about when Biden challenged a senior citizen to a push up contest when asked if he was too old to be President?
What about when Biden told a black radio host that if you don't vote democrat, "then you aint black"?
What about when Biden asked a black interviewer if he was a junkie and if he had taken a drug test when asked if he (Biden) had taken a cognitive test, despite telling the world that he was regularly tested?

Ultimately, the voters are being presented with two morons to choose from and it will come down to whether you support Conservative or Liberal policies.

Lots of whataboutery there.

My point was still correct.

AT8

14-08-2020, 09:45 PM

[QUOTE=Hibbyradge;6268842]Lots of whataboutery there.

Not really. You were suggesting that Biden wasn't acting like a loon when he called that girl a lying dog-faced pony soldier, so it's only fair that I provided examples that prove he is a loon.

Hibbyradge

14-08-2020, 10:08 PM

Jones28

15-08-2020, 03:40 AM

If believing in common sense policies makes me right wing, then so be it. I'm not ashamed of anything.

Is it common sense to separate children from their parents and put them in cages?

AT8

15-08-2020, 05:07 AM

Is it common sense to separate children from their parents and put them in cages?

You mean the same thing that Obama was doing? I agree that it's not an ideal situation, however, entering the country illegally is a crime which means those caught have to be detained. Would you prefer the children to be kept in a communal cell with possible sex offenders?

Santa Cruz

15-08-2020, 06:47 AM

‘A clampdown’ isn’t conservative. All those policies could equally be described as components of a fascist state as a conservative one.

In an ideal world, would you prefer a more moderate Republican to Trump? Jed Bush, Colin Powell, that Kasich guy? Or is that too moderate? Genuine question.

I thought Colin Powell supported the Democrats now, did he not switch allegiance during the Obama administration?

Keith_M

15-08-2020, 08:39 AM

Welfare as a short term solution is something I'm in favor of. The problem is, a number of Americans see welfare as a career path funded by us idiots that pay taxes, and don't get me started on the Democrat's wish of giving benefits to illegals.
....

So you're willing to punish the less fortunate because you've decided that there's significant numbers of chancers to make the genuinely less fortunate a legitimate casualty.

...
I am a LEGAL immigrant which is always available to those who qualify. It's been a very long time, but my path to US Citizenship cost me in excess of $6,000 and my wife's current green card process has already set us back over $4,000. Aside from the monetary cost, we could not leave the country while my wife's application was being processed meaning we missed out on a number of significant family events overseas. That is why I'm against illegal immigration. Do you think it's right that I've had to fork out all that hard earned cash to do things legally while others can just jump the border?
...

So you're saying that having money is the criteria for whether or not somebody is allowed to improve their life by emigrating.

Maybe they should just remove this from the Statue of Liberty...

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

One more thing; Who founded the team you support?

...
First of all, Walmart don't sell machine guns and for that matter, a citizen cannot legally purchase a machine gun anywhere, but I think you already knew that. I would love it if guns were outlawed and we could stop the number of shootings we see in this country, but here's the problem.....let's say we pass a law that bans all guns, it sounds simple , right? Criminals, by their very nature do not obey the laws, therefore, they will not turn in their guns and knowing that the law abiding folks are no longer armed, they will have free reign to run riot and crime rates will go through the roof. I know it's not an ideal solution, but keeping law abiding citizens armed is a means to deterring criminals chancing their luck.

First up, do you know what the word hyperbole means? No, you can't buy machine guns in Walmart, but you can buy deadly, multi repeat weapons of war over the counter relatively easily.

Secondly, your argument about allowing guns for all to help people defend themselves doesn't exactly stack up when you compare the figures of gun deaths in the USA against the numbers of gun deaths in countries with tighter gun controls.

To put it simply: More innocent people are murdered in the US than in countries with proper gun controls.

But going by your answers to anyone questioning your points of view, you don't seem to care much about logic...

Ozyhibby

15-08-2020, 08:41 AM

Trump - early stages of dementia - narcissistic criminal

Biden - early stages of dementia - decent person

That’s the choice facing America. It’s not perfect but it is clear.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Keith_M

15-08-2020, 08:43 AM

Trump - early stages of dementia - narcissistic criminal

Biden - early stages of dementia - decent person

That’s the choice facing America. It’s not perfect but it is clear.
...

Pretty much sums up the uninspiring choice.

hibsbollah

15-08-2020, 08:50 AM

I thought Colin Powell supported the Democrats now, did he not switch allegiance during the Obama administration?

True, but he’s a good example that the GOP used to be a much broader church.

Voter suppression now becoming a thing...

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/08/12/conspiracy-steal-election-folks-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3-nmkxmO6oaIIkQ9gpakXzupcwEnROpxHDe7XtfJHV4J3-gqPBAIBmnd0 (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/08/12/conspiracy-steal-election-folks-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3-nmkxmO6oaIIkQ9gpakXzupcwEnROpxHDe7XtfJHV4J3-gqPBAIBmnd0)

Rocky

15-08-2020, 09:06 AM

True, but he’s a good example that the GOP used to be a much broader church.

Voter suppression now becoming a thing...

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/08/12/conspiracy-steal-election-folks-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3-nmkxmO6oaIIkQ9gpakXzupcwEnROpxHDe7XtfJHV4J3-gqPBAIBmnd0 (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/08/12/conspiracy-steal-election-folks-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3-nmkxmO6oaIIkQ9gpakXzupcwEnROpxHDe7XtfJHV4J3-gqPBAIBmnd0)

If nothing else this term of Trump's (and the Tories here) has taught us that a lot of legal and constitutional protection needs to be implemented to protect our democratic processes. I hope we can avoid a full descent into fascism before we get the chance though.

G B Young

15-08-2020, 09:15 AM

Rocky

15-08-2020, 09:24 AM

Sounds great. It was only the 2014 Scottish independence referendum that roused me out of a general indifference to politics. I would happily have returned to that indifferent state afterwards had we not been lumbered with six years of SNP whinging in its aftermath.

In fact when I was growing up I used to think the SNP were the Scottish branch of the BNP :greengrin
Growing up I thought xenophobia was limited to loony fringe parties like the BNP. Now it turns out it can get you elected on both sides of the pond. It's a funny old world.

grunt

15-08-2020, 09:30 AM

In fact when I was growing up I used to think the SNP were the Scottish branch of the BNP :greengrinGrowing up I used to think that the Conservatives were the party of business. Turns out they are actually UKIP.

hibsbollah

15-08-2020, 09:44 AM

If nothing else this term of Trump's (and the Tories here) has taught us that a lot of legal and constitutional protection needs to be implemented to protect our democratic processes. I hope we can avoid a full descent into fascism before we get the chance though.

:agree: Absolutely. But the writings been on the wall for a while, when Trump has better personal relationships with Kim Jong Eun and Putin than say Trudeau or Merkel you know the score.

neil7908

15-08-2020, 12:13 PM

You mean the same thing that Obama was doing? I agree that it's not an ideal situation, however, entering the country illegally is a crime which means those caught have to be detained. Would you prefer the children to be kept in a communal cell with possible sex offenders?

I'm curious to know if Kamala Harris changes your thoughts on the Biden ticket? Given you have commented several times that you want a tough on crime approach surely having someone who has devoted a huge chunk of their life to putting criminals behind bars would appeal?

Tobias Funke

15-08-2020, 12:18 PM

You mean the same thing that Obama was doing?

Wow, you really are a fully paid up member of the whackjob Republican propaganda machine aren’t you?

To the folk on here debating with you, never argue with an idiot. It’s a waste of your time.

Bangkok Hibby

15-08-2020, 01:03 PM

Well if you like your despotic, wannabe dictators as leaders then you’re certainly in for a treat if you move to Thailand.

Bollocks!! It's a military regime yes, but give me examples of this.

CropleyWasGod

15-08-2020, 01:51 PM

I'm curious to know if Kamala Harris changes your thoughts on the Biden ticket? Given you have commented several times that you want a tough on crime approach surely having someone who has devoted a huge chunk of their life to putting criminals behind bars would appeal?

I feel she's a bit flip floppy on some issues.... she's a politician, I hear you say 😁... and that's something the Republicans should be attacking, rather than her gender, race or qualification to serve. I hope they do, so that there can be some proper debate.

neil7908

15-08-2020, 02:58 PM

I feel she's a bit flip floppy on some issues.... she's a politician, I hear you say 😁... and that's something the Republicans should be attacking, rather than her gender, race or qualification to serve. I hope they do, so that there can be some proper debate.

I really like her. Agree she has moved positions on a few things but I'm not massively concerned. She'll absolutely destroy Pence in any form of debate and I think she has all the characteristics to be a great leader. I'd like her to be more progressive on a number of issues but I'm not sure how viable that is right now in America.

CropleyWasGod

15-08-2020, 03:22 PM

I really like her. Agree she has moved positions on a few things but I'm not massively concerned. She'll absolutely destroy Pence in any form of debate and I think she has all the characteristics to be a great leader. I'd like her to be more progressive on a number of issues but I'm not sure how viable that is right now in America.

Flipping on SESTA/FOSTA would be a good "move position" IMO. Like you say, though, that's unlikely just now..and is probably nowhere near the top of her agenda

CloudSquall

15-08-2020, 04:53 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Timcast/status/1294633104443834370

"Hahahaha....it was a debate...hahahaha"

Renfrew_Hibby

17-08-2020, 12:18 PM

New Zealand elections delayed by a month due to covid out break in Auckland.

Could this set a precident for Trump? Delay with the hope that the numbers swing back?

hibsbollah

17-08-2020, 12:30 PM

Trump on top ironic form. Using his daily Coronavirus briefing, instead of saying things about the virus, to hammer Biden for err...‘politicizing coronavirus’.

Jones28

17-08-2020, 12:49 PM

You mean the same thing that Obama was doing? I agree that it's not an ideal situation, however, entering the country illegally is a crime which means those caught have to be detained. Would you prefer the children to be kept in a communal cell with possible sex offenders?

This thread isn’t about Obama it’s about Trump, and fwiw Obama has done some irremediably bad things as president.

I’d prefer those families caught to be kept together, not to have children ripped away from parents. It’s disgusting to something like that, regardless of circumstances.

Surely the most powerful democracy in the world could facilitate families who cross the border and are caught to at least be kept together.

grunt

19-08-2020, 03:34 PM

Surely the most powerful democracy in the world could facilitate families who cross the border and are caught to at least be kept together.Also this:

ICE is feeding Muslim detainees pork at its Krome detention center in Miami and its chaplain dismisses this basic, deliberate dignity violation by saying “it is what it is.”

grunt

19-08-2020, 09:08 PM

Obama takes the gloves off

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Efz-UNWWAAMr2BW?format=png&name=large

hibsbollah

21-08-2020, 11:28 AM

RyeSloan

21-08-2020, 12:26 PM

Another strong performance from Biden last night, widely praised even by right wing commentators. I’m not sure the ‘sleepy’ thing is going to stick with voters.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/20/joe-biden-dnc-2020-nomination-democrat-accepts

Think you’ll find it’s lonely and diminished these days rather than sleepy...[emoji849]

But as you say little evidence so far that he’s looking like whatever the Trump campaign are trying to paint him as..

One Day Soon

21-08-2020, 12:37 PM

#waitingforJoe

hibsbollah

21-08-2020, 01:03 PM

Think you’ll find it’s lonely and diminished these days rather than sleepy...[emoji849]

But as you say little evidence so far that he’s looking like whatever the Trump campaign are trying to paint him as..

He’s got this habit of slurring his words together, especially at the start of sentences, these small things get magnified in 30 second TV or social media news segments. It’s really meaningless in judging his fitness for office of course. He’s not the best orator around but he’s not the worst either.

Mibbes Aye

21-08-2020, 01:56 PM

Ozyhibby

21-08-2020, 02:00 PM

I think the epithets have shifted to ‘Slow Joe’ and ‘Creepy Kamala’ now.

It isn’t quite subtle enough to be called dog-whistle but it will be subtle enough to strike some inner chord with a lot of Trump voters.

I think the colour of Harris’s skin will be enough for most Trump die hards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

overdrive

22-08-2020, 10:00 AM

He’s got this habit of slurring his words together, especially at the start of sentences, these small things get magnified in 30 second TV or social media news segments. It’s really meaningless in judging his fitness for office of course. He’s not the best orator around but he’s not the worst either.

Which is a shame. I’ve been reading about his 1988 presidential campaign and it seems he was widely regarded as one of the best orators around at that point. Well, until he decided to steal speeches from Neil Kinnock.

hibsbollah

22-08-2020, 10:05 AM

Which is a shame. I’ve been reading about his 1988 presidential campaign and it seems he was widely regarded as one of the best orators around at that point. Well, until he decided to steal speeches from Neil Kinnock.

Coincidentally, I met up yesterday with an American friend who told me that Biden had a bad stammer as a child, but overcame it Kings Speech style, which I was totally ignorant about when I posted a few hours earlier.

Pretty Boy

22-08-2020, 10:14 AM

Coincidentally, I met up yesterday with an American friend who told me that Biden had a bad stammer as a child, but overcame it Kings Speech style, which I was totally ignorant about when I posted a few hours earlier.

My mums cousin is from California. She shared a video on Facebook today of Biden talking to a young boy with a stammer and he referenced his own struggles with stammering.

It was something I was also unaware of. I treat videos of all politicians with a degree of scepticism but it looked like a natural conversation and he came across as warm and with empathy.

lapsedhibee

22-08-2020, 10:22 AM

My mums cousin is from California. She shared a video on Facebook today of Biden talking to a young boy with a stammer and he referenced his own struggles with stammering.

https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1296908959601905665

hibsbollah

22-08-2020, 10:28 AM

Pretty Boy

22-08-2020, 10:31 AM

There will be some sort of alt right conspiracy about him speaking in tongues, I’m sure.

She did post it in response to claims Biden was 'creepy' for touching and talking to children.....

hibsbollah

22-08-2020, 10:36 AM

https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1296908959601905665

Wow I am genuinely moved by that. A really great way to speak to a child. It’s depressing to think any non partisan person could think that was ‘creepy’.

Tobias Funke

22-08-2020, 05:20 PM

Wow I am genuinely moved by that. A really great way to speak to a child. It’s depressing to think any non partisan person could think that was ‘creepy’.

Also, contrast the video of Biden with the child with a stammer against Trumps mocking of a disabled journalist at a rally in 2016. They are so far apart when it comes to showing empathy.

jonty

22-08-2020, 07:21 PM

Related Brayden Harrington (the boy with the stutter) above

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53858819

hibeedc

23-08-2020, 07:12 AM

Wow I am genuinely moved by that. A really great way to speak to a child. It’s depressing to think any non partisan person could think that was ‘creepy’.
I suspect she does not find that 'creepy', she may be talking about this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfpX1kvh6Xg

hibsbollah

25-08-2020, 11:55 AM

Meanwhile, AOC moves onto more important issues

Here is my new mascot proposal:

Progressives take elephants from Republicans, bc they are compassionate, empathetic creatures w nuanced social structures.

General Dems can keep Donkeys if desired - we can unite under that tent.

Republicans are Honey Badgers.

JeMeSouviens

25-08-2020, 12:11 PM

My mums cousin is from California. She shared a video on Facebook today of Biden talking to a young boy with a stammer and he referenced his own struggles with stammering.

It was something I was also unaware of. I treat videos of all politicians with a degree of scepticism but it looked like a natural conversation and he came across as warm and with empathy.

In a similar vein, the Republicans dug out this old photo:

https://cdn.talkingpointsmemo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Annotation-2020-07-13-160603-e1594671937126.png

We are apparently not supposed to see a good Dad taking his kid to the game but a shameless hypocritical racist because of the "Redskins" hat. :rolleyes:

Future17

03-09-2020, 07:57 AM

Biden taking a bit of a gamble by saying the police officers involved in the Blake and Taylor shootings should be charged (with something), but stopping short of saying the same about Rittenhouse.

Peevemor

03-09-2020, 08:15 AM

Not directly to do with the election, but I received this spam email today. There are some real bampots in the world!

I hope you, your family, and friends stay safe by taking the proper precuations as we enter in to confusing and troubling times as we watch a worldwide pandemic unfold with this Coronavirus.

Could there be something more deeper going on with all of this? Could we be seeing the signs of the times unfolding? Could this be a door of opportunity for people to open their hearts to what God has to say?

Jesus says to His disciples concerning the last days, "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows" (Matthew 24:7-8).

We have been seeing a record setting amount of Earthquakes world-wide in various places, incuding places that normally do not receive Earthquakes. Now with this Coronavirus, could this be one of the pestilences that will fall upon us in the last days as spoken by Jesus? Where will it leave our economy? Did you know the Bible teaches there will be a cashless society in the last days? Will this be a major stepping stone in bringing that about?

You may have seen on NBC news just months ago concerning the implantable RFID microchip that is gaining ground in Sweden where people are getting this microchip implanted in their hand.

Would you allow a microchip to be placed inside your body that has the ability to track where you go and what you do? How about if you knew it matched perfectly with Bible prophecy where God warns us not to take it during the future reign of the Antichrist, otherwise we will receive the fullness of His wrath (Revelation 14:9-11)?

This may be the most imporant message you will read in these times...please do not ignore this! This messsage reveals what the Mark of the Beast is, and the meaning behind counting a number people have been pondering for centuries, 666. This is truly a message from God!

In the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to the apostle John, we read:

"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666" (Revelation 13:16-18 NKJV).

Speaking of the last days, this can only be referring to a society where physical currency is no more, which has yet to occur, but we are on the horizon of. How come? Otherwise we could still buy or sell without receiving the mark between each other if tangible money was still in use. It logically deduces itself to this end.

The mark could not be something spiritual, because the word references two contrasting physical spots. If it were to be spiritual, it would just say in the forehead.

Here is where it really starts to come together. It is shocking how accurate the Bible is concerning the RFID microchip. These are notes from a man named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this microchip in the late 1960's.

Carl Sanders sat in 17 New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the CIA to talk about their agenda on how to bring about this one-world system. The US government commissioned Carl Sanders to invent a microchip for identifying and controlling the peoples of the world-a microchip that might be inserted underneath the skin with a hypodermic needle (a quick, convenient procedure that would be progressively received by the nations).

Carl Sanders, with a team of engineers with him, with US grant monies provided by tax dollars, took on this task and engineered a microchip which is powered by a lithium battery, rechargeable through the temperature changes in our skin. Without having knowledge of the Bible (Mr. Sanders was not a believer at the time), these men spent one-and-a-half-million dollars conducting research on the best and most convenient spot to have the microchip inserted.

These researchers observed that the forehead and the back of the hand (the two locations Revelation says the mark will go) are not just the most convenient places, but are additionally the only viable locations for rapid, consistent temperature changes inside the skin to recharge the lithium battery. The microchip is around 7 millimeters in length, .75 millimeters in diameter, about the size of a grain of rice. It's capable of containing pages of information about you. All of your basic data, work records, crime history, health history, and financial information could be stored on this chip.

Mr. Sanders believes that this microchip, which he regretfully helped produce, is the "mark of the beast" mentioned in Revelation 13:16-18. The Greek word for "mark" is "charagma," which is defined as a "scratch or etching." It's also fascinating to be aware that the number 666 is actually a word in the original Greek language. The word is "chi xi stigma," with the final word, "stigma," additionally meaning "to stick or prick. Carl believes that is referring to the usage of a hypodermic needle being poked into the human flesh to insert the RFID chip."

Brother Sanders asked a Boston Medical Center doctor what would happen if the lithium contained within the RFID microchip leaked into the body. The doctor responded that if the microchip broke inside a human body, the lithium would cause a severe and painful wound filled with pus. This is what the scriptures of Revelation 16:2 has to say:

"And the first (angel) went, and poured out his vial on the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore on the men which had the mark of the beast, and on them which worshipped his image" (Revelation 16:2 NKJV).

THE HIDDEN MEANING BEHIND THE NUMBER 666 REVEALED!

Scripture tells us that we can't buy or sell without accepting the mark, or the number of its name. Which is the number 666. Scripture tells us to calculate the number 666. How may we calculate 666?

Here is where it gets really interesting. Counting the number of the beast, 666, has been long debated all throughout history, but has finally been uncovered in these last times by God. What you'll see affirms itself with the Bible the true meaning to count six-six-six.

Throughout God's Holy Scriptures, God uses the number three for confirming things. A few examples are shared below:

"For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one" (1 John 5:7 NKJV).

"and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:4 NKJV).

"Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!" (Revelation 4:8 NKJV).

Peevemor

03-09-2020, 08:17 AM

continued 2/3

Now what's fascinating is the the mark is explained in detail in 3 separate verses (Revelation 13:16,17,18), and every verse lists three distinct examples of the given subject. The final three being the number six being used 3 times in a row. That is a key point to unlocking the way to count the number 666.

What does it suggest to calculate the number of the beast, 666? It means to add up. How might we add up 666? Keep in mind my earlier point concerning God confirming in threes. So logically, what can be the most reasonable way to count the number 666? To add it up equally in threes based off the number. It is not sensible to count it equally as 600+60+6, this would also take us back to the start. We cannot add it as 600+600+600, or 60+60+60, because there are no zeroes in between or at the end of 666. The only logical option is 6+6+6=18. What is interesting is that the verse that tells us to count the number itself is verse 18, being the third verse out of 3 verses that describe the mark of the beast. Now what is 18 divided by 3? 6. So 3x6=18, or 6+6+6=18.

Another interesting key factor is that the two other possible combinations (bringing a combined total of 3 possible combinations) for moving the + symbol in between the 6's are 66+6=72, and 6+66=72. Add both 72's together and you get 144. Why the number 144 is interesting is because the verse following Revelation 13:18 is the first time in God's word where the 144,000 are being mentioned in detail:

"Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads..." (Revelation 14:1 NKJV).

Now if you add up all three numbers by counting 666 by moving the + symbol around in all three possible combinations, we would get 72+72+18=162. What's fascinating about the number 162, is, if you divide 144,000 by 162, you get 888. The name of Jesus in Greek gematria adds up to 888. The New Testament was written in the Greek language. Revelation 14:1 not only mentions the 144,000, but additionally the Lamb who is the Son of God, Jesus.

What is fascinating concerning the the number for Jesus, 888, is that if you apply this identical method, you get 8+8+8=24. Now why the number 24? Revelation chapter 4 tells us there are 24 elders seated around the throne of God. That is the same throne where Jesus sits:

"Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads" (Revelation 4:2-4).

Now if you take 8+8+8=24, and 8+88=96, and 88+8=96, you get 24+96+96=216. Take 144,000 divided by 216 and you get 666. Keep in mind that this was the exact formula to get the value 162 out of counting 666 that produced the value 888 when dividing 144,000 by 162. It is perpetual.

By utilizing the identical method of counting by including the plus symbol in between the numbers, why do all these numbers relate in such a manner?

The book of Revelation contains the use of the number 7 in various forms. For instance 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 bowls. What is interesting about the number 37 (three sevens) is if if you divide any number that contains the same single digit three times in a row, such as 111 to 999, it comes out to the value of if you were to add all three numbers up. For example 888 divided by 37 equals 24. So 8+8+8=24. Or 666 divided by 37 equals 18. So 6+6+6=18. Could this be another way of God's word confirming itself that the mystery behind calculating the number 666 indeed is 18?

Another fascinating point to notice is that if you add up all of the numbers from 1 to 36 (1+2+3...+36), it totals 666. The number 36, as in three sixes? May this be a sign that we should add up three sixes rather than perceiving the number as six-hundred sixty six?

So what could this suggest? We know in this world we are identified by numbers in various forms. From our birth certificate to social security, also with our drivers license, being recognized founded on a system of ruler ship. So it is plausible that this RFID microchip will incorporate a brand new identification that has a complete total of 18 characters.

"here the wisdom is, the one having the mind let him calculate the number of the wild beast, number for "of human" it is, and the number of it 666" (Revelation 13:1, Greek Translation).

The Greek word "anthrōpos" being used in verse 18 where it says "of human" is the Greek strongs concordance G444. The first two definitions of the word are "a human being, whether male or female", and, "generically, to include all human individuals". Could the number of the beast apply to all mankind?

In the Greek (the New Testament was originally written in the Greek language), and other translations, you will notice the beast is described as an "it", instead of "him". The reason I'm making this point is because when a translation says "His number is 666", this would imply a singular person, the Antichrist. But by saying "the number of it 666", implies that it is of the beast system as a whole.

We can know the number of the beast cannot be to identify products (like a new barcode) to buy or sell because scripture says we cannot buy or sell without the number of the beast. What am I getting at? There will be instances where you could buy something someone made themselves and it wouldn't have a store branded identification on it. But for this number to be in our chips, that is where it must be to conclude ultimately that we cannot buy or sell without having the number of the beast. As previously mentioned in Revelation 13:18, the number of the beast (6+6+6=18) is a "human number", definition "generically, to include all human individuals".

May this be the identification of the beast, the number of its name? The one-world beast system that is recognized by 18 characters? This might fit the scriptures that speaks of a mark that we must have to buy or sell in our right hand or forehead, and that it also contains the number of the beast, during a future cashless money society.

Go to: http://rev.bible-freedom.com to see all the proof!

The Bible warns us in the last days that a false prophet will rise up doing miracles to deceive many to obtain this mark:

"Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image" (Revelation 19:20).

At all costs, DO NOT TAKE IT!

"Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name" (Revelation 14:9-11).

We are dwelling in very prophetic times with major Biblical prophecies being fulfilled.

When Donald Trump acknowledged Jerusalem as capital of Israel on December 6th of '17, this was a big step to bring forth the Third Temple prophesied within the words of God.

The Bible alerts us that the Antichrist will seat himself in this temple:

"...and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God" (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

In the Islamic faith, there is a man called the Mahdi, referred to as their messiah who they are waiting to be revealed. There are many testimonies from individuals on-line who imagine this man shall be Barack Obama who may be the biblical Antichrist. I personally have had unusual dreams concerning Barack. He got on stage claiming to be a follower of Jesus with no affiliation to the Muslim faith, however it was later revealed by his family that he certainly is a faithful Muslim.

So what's in the name? The meaning of someones name can say a lot about a person. God throughout history has given names to people that have a specific meaning tied to their lives. How about the name Barack Obama? Let us take a look at what may be hiding beneath the surface...

Jesus says, "And He said to them, 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven'" (Luke 10:18).

In Hebrew, the name "Barack" means "lighting", and the usage of "Bama" (Strongs Hebrew phrase 1116) is used to mean the "heights" of heaven.

The day following the election of Barack Obama (11/04/08), the triumphing pick 3 lotto numbers in Illinois (Obama’s domestic state) for 11/5/08 were 666.

Obama was formerly a U.S. senator for the state of Illinois, and his zip code was 60606.

Regardless, whoever seats themselves in the future Third Temple in Jerusalem, declaring himself to be God IS THE ANTICHRIST. DO NOT BE DECEIVED.

Why do we need Jesus?

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 2:23).

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

Our good works cannot save us. If we step before a judge, being guilty of a criminal offense, the judge won't judge us by the good that we have carried out, but rather the crimes we have committed. If we as fallen humanity, created in God's image, pose this type of justice, how much greater a perfect, righteous, and Holy creator?

Peevemor

03-09-2020, 08:18 AM

Continued 3/3

Our good works cannot save us. If we step before a judge, being guilty of a criminal offense, the judge won't judge us by the good that we have carried out, but rather the crimes we have committed. If we as fallen humanity, created in God's image, pose this type of justice, how much greater a perfect, righteous, and Holy creator?

God has delivered to us His moral regulation's through the 10 commandments handed to Moses at Mt. Siani. These laws were not given so we can be justified, but in order that we could see the need for the saviour. They are the mirror of God's character of what He has put in each and every one of us, with our conscious bearing witness that we know that it's an act of evil to steal, lie, dishonor our parents, and so forth.

We can attempt to observe all the ethical laws of the 10 commandments, but we will in no way catch up to them to be justified before a Holy God. The same word of the law given to Moses became flesh over 2000 years ago inside the body of Jesus Christ. He was brought forth to be our justification by perfectly fulfilling the commandments of God, living a sinless life that solely God could fulfill.

The distance between us and the law can in no way be reconciled by our very own merit, but the arm of Jesus is stretched out by the grace and mercy of God. And if we're to seize hold of, by faith in Him, He will pull us forward being the one to justify us. As inside the court of law, if someone steps in and pays your debt, despite the fact that you're guilty, the judge can do what's legal and just and allow you to go free. That is what Jesus did almost 2000 years ago on the cross. It was a legal transaction being fulfilled within the spiritual realm by the shedding of His blood, with His last words being, "...It is finished!..." (John 19:30).

Now why did Jesus have to die for us?

Because God is Holy and just, the wrath that we deserve could not go unnoticed. Because of the perfect righteousness and justice of God's character, it ought to be reconciled, it ought to be quenched and satisfied.

For God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:23). That is why in Isaiah chapter 53, where it speaks of the coming Messiah and His soul being a sacrifice for our sins, why it says it satisfied God to crush His only begotten Son.

This is because the wrath that we deserve was justified by being poured out upon His Son. For if it was poured out on us who deserve it, we'd all die and go to hell. God created a way of escape by pouring it out on His Son who's soul could not stay in Hades, however was raised and seated at the right hand of God in power.

Now after we put on the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 13:14), God no longer see's the person who deserves His wrath, but now the glorious image of His perfect Son living within, justifying us as if we received the wrath we deserve, making a means of escape from the curse of death.

Now what we must do is turn from our sins and believe in the saviour, confessing and forsaking our sins. That is not only a head knowledge of believing in Jesus, but rather receiving His words, taking them to heart. In which we no longer live to exercise sin, but turn away from our sins and practice righteousness:

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

By doing so we may become transformed into the image of God by means of faith in His Son Christ Jesus Who's inclined to offer the Holy Spirit to people who ask of Him:

"Most assuredly, I (Jesus) say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' (John 3:5-6).

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His" (Romans 8:9).

What are you waiting for? Our heavenly Father only desires the best for us all, restoring all the pieces this world has stolen from us. That is what it means to be "holy". To be made whole.

He is ready to hear from you. That God given tongue to speak language, by means of faith, pray to Him, ask Him to forgive you by confessing your sins and be willing to forsake them; that you receive the sacrifice of His Son Jesus on the cross, and that you need His Holy Spirit residing inside you transforming you into a child of the living God.

Jesus says, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him (the Holy Spirit) will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."

Did you know that Jesus spoke more about hell than any one in the Bible, even more than He spoke about heaven?! For this very purpose He came to die for us, to deliver us from this place that we earned by our sins.

He describes hell as a actual place where,

"Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44).

And where,

"There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth..." (Luke 13:28).

Jesus tells us who to fear,

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28).

"Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, 'Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.'

Then He who sat on the throne said, 'Behold, I make all things new.' And He said to me, 'Write, for these words are true and faithful.'

And He said to me, 'It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.'" (Revelation 21:1-8).

With all of the world religions, how can we be sure the Bible got it all right? The scientific information has established and continues to support that the universe once had a starting point wherein space, time and matter were created. Many know this as the big bang.

"The non-biblical religions tell us that god or god's create within space and time that eternally exist. The Bible stands alone and says that time and space don't exist until God creates the universe." - Astronomer (Phd) Hugh Ross

The Bible not only got it right that space, time and matter all came into existence at the start of the universe, it also states in 7 distinct places that the universe is expanding 1000's of years before scientists found out these facts.

Did you already know that the actual Noah's Ark was found where the scriptures told us it would be with the correct dimensions? As well as proof for the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah and the Exodus account of the Red Sea crossing?

The Bible is by far the most translated and studied book in the history of the world, full of predictive prophecies, matching what we find in the book of nature. Would not you count on God's word to be so?

The Lord is calling you!

Hibrandenburg

03-09-2020, 08:29 AM

Continued 3/3

There's some cracking news reports and videos of all the oddballs that gathered in Berlin to protest against the Corona measures. I've always known the world is full of weirdos but it's quite a spectacular to see them all come together in one place and try and out oddball each other.

RyeSloan

03-09-2020, 09:36 AM

Continued 3/3

Obviously I didn’t have time to read all of that [emoji2957] But I did skim the 666 stuff...it’s absolutely fascinating how many mathematical gymnastics you can perform to get to that number. Add this, take that, ignore this, drop that and BOOM! the 666 is revealed [emoji23][emoji23]

Peevemor

03-09-2020, 09:39 AM

Obviously I didn’t have time to read all of that [emoji2957] But I did skim the 666 stuff...it’s absolutely fascinating how many mathematical gymnastics you can perform to get to that number. Add this, take that, ignore this, drop that and BOOM! the 666 is revealed [emoji23][emoji23]

I liked the bit about Obama's name confirming that he's the devil incarnate -

"Jesus says, "And He said to them, 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven'" (Luke 10:18).

In Hebrew, the name "Barack" means "lighting", and the usage of "Bama" (Strongs Hebrew phrase 1116) is used to mean the "heights" of heaven."

RyeSloan

03-09-2020, 09:57 AM

I liked the bit about Obama's name confirming that he's the devil incarnate -

"Jesus says, "And He said to them, 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven'" (Luke 10:18).

In Hebrew, the name "Barack" means "lighting", and the usage of "Bama" (Strongs Hebrew phrase 1116) is used to mean the "heights" of heaven."

Dunno how you can argue with that really!! [emoji23][emoji2957]

Kato

03-09-2020, 11:33 AM

Continued 3/3Just in case the authors of Revelations were writing about our times, rather than reflecting on what was happening in 1st Century Judea, its handy to have some knowledge as to how to recognise that Anti-Christ gadge.

https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/

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CropleyWasGod

03-09-2020, 11:43 AM

Just in case the authors of Revelations were writing about our times, rather than reflecting on what was happening in 1st Century Judea, its handy to have some knowledge as to how to recognise that Anti-Christ gadge.

https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/

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I'll see your Benjamin Corey, and raise you Charles Willis Manson :-

https://www.charlesmanson.com/theories/revelation-chapter-nine/

Charles' Will Is Man's Son.

Keith_M

03-09-2020, 11:46 AM

Did you know that the Pope has 666 written on his hat?

I know he doesn't really, but they'll believe anything ;-)

It's all one big papal conspiracy!

Peevemor

03-09-2020, 11:49 AM

Did you know that the Pope has 666 written on his hat?

I know he doesn't really, but they'll believe anything ;-)

It's all one big papal conspiracy!

:singing: And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm wearing it
It's my f***ing mitre, and I'm the f***ing Pope!

Kato

03-09-2020, 12:13 PM

I'll see your Benjamin Corey, and raise you Charles Willis Manson :-

https://www.charlesmanson.com/theories/revelation-chapter-nine/

Charles' Will Is Man's Son.Prefer the Brad Pitt ending myself.

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Moulin Yarns

03-09-2020, 03:54 PM

:singing: And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm wearing it
It's my f***ing mitre, and I'm the f***ing Pope!

🤣

He's a false deluding young man

Moulin Yarns

01-10-2020, 08:50 AM

I couldn't decide whether the US election, Trump or this thread was the right place for this.

One of my all time favourite singer songwriters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quSvEOzZqhI

Watch right to the end.

Hibernia&Alba

01-10-2020, 04:06 PM

Just remember these people can vote and usually do:

https://youtu.be/XLQe0D1Im0U

Hibernia&Alba

01-10-2020, 07:05 PM

And these are Trumpets who are so interested in politics, they attend rallies. Simultaneously hilarious and horrifying:

https://youtu.be/q2E9lyxXCrQ

Hibernia&Alba

01-10-2020, 07:07 PM

https://youtu.be/c8IrzMyIhk0

Ozyhibby

05-10-2020, 12:24 AM

https://projects.economist.com/us-2020-forecast/president

Biden moves to 89% chance of winning.

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Ozyhibby

05-10-2020, 12:00 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201005/769c608c14a5d563940bfb16960aa431.jpg

The drugs must be good this morning.

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Kato

05-10-2020, 12:07 PM

Space force? He cray cray.

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Hibrandenburg

05-10-2020, 12:09 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201005/769c608c14a5d563940bfb16960aa431.jpg

The drugs must be good this morning.

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No mention of a wall? Must have been completed.

neil7908

05-10-2020, 07:39 PM

What a lunatic.

Tobias Funke

05-10-2020, 08:00 PM

He’s desperate.

Iain G

05-10-2020, 10:17 PM

What a lunatic.

Just when you think this self absorbed inhuman ****wit mofo can't get any worse he does something like this:

"Don't be afraid of Covid," he tweeted. "Don't let it dominate your life. We have developed, under the Trump Administration, some really great drugs & knowledge. I feel better than I did 20 years ago!!"

Colr

06-10-2020, 06:11 AM

Just when you think this self absorbed inhuman ****wit mofo can't get any worse he does something like this:

"Don't be afraid of Covid," he tweeted. "Don't let it dominate your life. We have developed, under the Trump Administration, some really great drugs & knowledge. I feel better than I did 20 years ago!!"

Looked like he was struggling to breathe when he got to the top of the White House stairs.

marinello59

06-10-2020, 06:43 AM

Looked like he was struggling to breathe when he got to the top of the White House stairs.

As long as it’s not dominating his life. He might even be immune from the disease he has actually caught. I have no idea how that works but I’ve been inspired to throw all my masks away. If that virus comes anywhere near me I’ll head butt it out of existence.

Hibbyradge

06-10-2020, 06:45 AM

As long as it’s not dominating his life. He might even be immune from the disease he has actually caught. I have no idea how that works but I’ve been inspired to throw all my masks away. If that virus comes anywhere near me I’ll head butt it out of existence.

You might hurt your head.

That's the problem with this country. No guns.

Iain G

06-10-2020, 07:51 AM

Looked like he was struggling to breathe when he got to the top of the White House stairs.

Shame someone didn't then push him down said stairs, then blame it on an owl or something.

Hibrandenburg

06-10-2020, 08:06 AM

Just when you think this self absorbed inhuman ****wit mofo can't get any worse he does something like this:

"Don't be afraid of Covid," he tweeted. "Don't let it dominate your life. We have developed, under the Trump Administration, some really great drugs & knowledge. I feel better than I did 20 years ago!!"

I'm betting not everyone has the same medical plan as Donald. Unlike Boris who was treated on the National Health Service, aye right.

Bostonhibby

06-10-2020, 09:18 AM

Shame someone didn't then push him down said stairs, then blame it on an owl or something.

With that hair "style" all that was really required was a decent gust of wind from the wrong direction and he's over.

Mikey

06-10-2020, 11:15 AM

90%............

https://projects.economist.com/us-2020-forecast/president

SHODAN

06-10-2020, 11:25 AM

90%............

https://projects.economist.com/us-2020-forecast/president

They said the same thing in 2016. Hopefully the algorithm is fixed now.

Ozyhibby

06-10-2020, 09:39 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201006/56e8b3a50b0898036e61fd0b8916c20d.jpg

Two separate polls today have Biden stretching his lead to 14 points.

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lapsedhibee

07-10-2020, 05:39 AM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201006/56e8b3a50b0898036e61fd0b8916c20d.jpg

Two separate polls today have Biden stretching his lead to 14 points.

Wonder if Trump's tactic now might become making himself so chronically ill that when judges and juries eventually catch up with him they will be lenient enough to keep him out of jail.

Ozyhibby

07-10-2020, 06:57 AM

hibsbollah

07-10-2020, 07:18 AM

Wonder if Trump's tactic now might become making himself so chronically ill that when judges and juries eventually catch up with him they will be lenient enough to keep him out of jail.

I think he’ll be fine. He doesn’t eat breakfast, drinks 12 diet cokes a day, is a regular at McDonalds where his normal order is 2 Big Macs 2 Fillet of Fish and a chocolate shake.

He clearly has a cast iron immune system. Or maybe he’s stumbled across something?

Hibbyradge

07-10-2020, 07:41 AM

Wonder if Trump's tactic now might become making himself so chronically ill that when judges and juries eventually catch up with him they will be lenient enough to keep him out of jail.

His tactic is to fabricate electoral fraud and get the supreme court to keep him in the Whitehouse.

It's that simple, it's that crude.

hibsbollah

07-10-2020, 07:49 AM

His tactic is to fabricate electoral fraud and get the supreme court to keep him in the Whitehouse.

It's that simple, it's that crude.

It’s interesting that early absentee voting has already started, 4.2million Americans in 20 states have already cast mail in ballots. There are way more absentee voters this year because of Covid, and over 70% of mail in voters are Democrats, and these votes will be last to be counted. There’s a good chance that on election night the numbers for Trump will look good, even if the final count will represent a Democrat landslide. Trump knows this and is counting on it to boost the ‘they’ve stolen the election’ narrative.

Jones28

07-10-2020, 08:40 AM

Almost certainly he won’t serve jail time. Trump org may collapse though.

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That would be fantastic.

lapsedhibee

07-10-2020, 08:42 AM

His tactic is to fabricate electoral fraud and get the supreme court to keep him in the Whitehouse.

It's that simple, it's that crude.

Even the existing conservative majority (5-3) on the supreme court won't fall for that, though, will they? I think more likely his idiot base will try to start a war to keep him in post. Let's hope the military would step up, in that case.

CropleyWasGod

07-10-2020, 09:48 AM

That would be fantastic.

I'd rather he went to jail than 20k-plus people lose their jobs.

Ozyhibby

07-10-2020, 10:12 AM

I'd rather he went to jail than 20k-plus people lose their jobs.

If the organisation is involved in a criminal enterprise then those jobs are not worth saving. Unemployed henchmen are a price worth paying.

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McD

07-10-2020, 11:00 AM

If the organisation is involved in a criminal enterprise then those jobs are not worth saving. Unemployed henchmen are a price worth paying.

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A touch harsh, no?

The vast majority of those individuals won't be partaking in criminal activity, just doing their (non criminal) jobs

Ozyhibby

07-10-2020, 11:43 AM

A touch harsh, no?

The vast majority of those individuals won't be partaking in criminal activity, just doing their (non criminal) jobs

The jobs won’t disappear just because a new operators buys the assets from the administrator. The hotels will still be there.

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Bristolhibby

07-10-2020, 12:12 PM

The jobs won’t disappear just because a new operators buys the assets from the administrator. The hotels will still be there.

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Not if the hotels were losing money had over fist and were kept alive by some shady Shananagins.

J

Ozyhibby

07-10-2020, 12:15 PM

Not if the hotels were losing money had over fist and were kept alive by some shady Shananagins.

J

Then the jobs were never viable in the first place and deserve to go.

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Smartie

07-10-2020, 12:38 PM

The hotels and golf courses might have an incentive to make themselves viable if they have to live without the extra funds.

These might well be viable businesses under other owners.

Hibernia&Alba

07-10-2020, 05:31 PM

CloudSquall

07-10-2020, 07:08 PM

I think it all comes down to Biden's base, will they go out to vote in significant numbers?

I still think Trump will win on the electoral college.

Killiehibbie

07-10-2020, 07:24 PM

If the organisation is involved in a criminal enterprise then those jobs are not worth saving. Unemployed henchmen are a price worth paying.

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There would be millions of job losses round the world if they got rid of all criminal money.

Jones28

07-10-2020, 07:47 PM

I'd rather he went to jail than 20k-plus people lose their jobs.

They wouldn’t lose their jobs, the hotels would be sold and maybe ran by someone with some actual business acumen. I’m sure the staff would be a lot happier knowing they aren’t being run by a whining orange man child too, win win.

Mibbes Aye

07-10-2020, 07:47 PM

If the polls are correct (currently giving Biden a 14 to 18 point lead) then it's a landslide and there's no way Trump could pull it back now. Of course it all depends upon how accurate the polls are and what happens between now and polling day. It could be the case that some people are too embarrassed to admit they will vote for Trump. I do think Biden will win, but by a much narrower margin than the current polls suggest.

It is the battleground states that matter in an electoral college system.

Biden/Harris can have a landslide in California in terms of votes, but they were always going to win it, and they don't get any more electoral college votes if they win by one vote or ten million votes. The likes of Michigan and Wisconsin will be the deciding factor.

hibsbollah

07-10-2020, 08:38 PM

It is the battleground states that matter in an electoral college system.

Biden/Harris can have a landslide in California in terms of votes, but they were always going to win it, and they don't get any more electoral college votes if they win by one vote or ten million votes. The likes of Michigan and Wisconsin will be the deciding factor.

Im sure H&A and anyone who takes a passing interest in politics knows about the electoral college system. It’s actually the polling in the key swing states that makes such good reading for Biden. Georgia? Previously Unthinkable. The FT tracker is a good source. https://ig.ft.com/us-election-2020/

Hibernia&Alba

07-10-2020, 08:45 PM

It is the battleground states that matter in an electoral college system.

Biden/Harris can have a landslide in California in terms of votes, but they were always going to win it, and they don't get any more electoral college votes if they win by one vote or ten million votes. The likes of Michigan and Wisconsin will be the deciding factor.

If 14-18 points is close to accurate, it's an electoral college wipeout in addition to a popular vote landslide. The electoral college got Trump elected in 2016; it couldn't possibly do so with a double digit deficit in the popular vote. He is massively down in swing states such as Pennsylvania, which he won in 2016.

Mibbes Aye

07-10-2020, 08:49 PM

Im sure H&A and anyone who takes a passing interest in politics knows about the electoral college system. It’s actually the polling in the key swing states that makes such good reading for Biden. Georgia? Previously Unthinkable. The FT tracker is a good source. https://ig.ft.com/us-election-2020/

I think that was what I was clumsily trying to say.

Good graphics,they raise a lot of talking points. Whatever happens after the GE I will be fascinated by the analysis.

hibsbollah

07-10-2020, 08:52 PM

Mibbes Aye

07-10-2020, 08:56 PM

If 14-18 points is close to accurate, it's an electoral college wipeout in addition to a popular vote landslide. The electoral college got Trump elected in 2016; it couldn't possibly do so with a double digit deficit in the popular vote. He is massively down in swing states such as Pennsylvania, which he won in 2016.

I would love an elctoral college wipeout that led to the Democratic Party winning the vote, gaining the Senate, bolstering thr House and winning the various state elections.

The concern is a bit of Corbynista politics - he wins a landslide in Islington but doesn't get swing voters across the line, anywhere.

America is polarised, we know that. The gross vote in California and New York is huge but it doesn't matter if Biden wins by one vote or a hundfred thousand. He is always going to win there. it is the likes of Ohio and North Carolina and hopefully Biden can carry them.

Hibernia&Alba

07-10-2020, 08:58 PM

Was it Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin that Trump won by a combined 80,000 votes in 2016? There were three swing states he won by a tiny margin combined, but that meant he took all the electoral college votes for them. A double digit swing would not only turn them Democrat, but would leave Trump with just a small number of states in the deep south. Whilst I don't think it will end up that badly for him, I think he will lose the electoral college by wide a margin. I expect all the states classified mass swing states to go for Biden. In practice that means just taking Florida is game over.

hibsbollah

07-10-2020, 09:08 PM

In practice that means just taking Florida is game over.

:agree: it always surprised me that they get 29 electoral votes, Florida will probably be enough for Biden barring real craziness elsewhere. Then we can start paying attention to the senate races.

Kato

07-10-2020, 10:04 PM

There would be millions of job losses round the world if they got rid of all criminal money.

Sad but very true.

Ozyhibby

07-10-2020, 10:08 PM

There would be millions of job losses round the world if they got rid of all criminal money.

Maybe we should disband the police if we are worried about potential job losses in organised crime?

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marinello59

08-10-2020, 02:34 AM

Well that was a rather more respectful debate tonight between Harris and Pence. I don’t think there was a clear winner which has to be better for Biden than Trump. It was interesting watching Pence trying to portray the acceptable face of Trump’s White House. It was still pretty ugly.

Hibbyradge

08-10-2020, 09:40 AM

Is it possible for Trump to somehow cheat his way to keeping the presidency with congress and the senate going to the Democrats?

If that happened, what could we expect in the next 4 years?

Ozyhibby

08-10-2020, 09:45 AM

Is it possible for Trump to somehow cheat his way to keeping the presidency with congress and the senate going to the Democrats?

If that happened, what could we expect in the next 4 years?

No, the only thing that keeps him in the White House is more votes on Nov 3rd.

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Hibbyradge

08-10-2020, 10:46 AM

No, the only thing that keeps him in the White House is more votes on Nov 3rd.

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Ok, my question was badly worded.

Is there any possibility that he can remain in office whilst losing both houses?

Ozyhibby

08-10-2020, 12:01 PM

Ok, my question was badly worded.

Is there any possibility that he can remain in office whilst losing both houses?

Yes. He could win the election but the senate could flip to the democrats. Very unlikely though. The performance of the presidential vote is usually reflected down the ballot to the other races on the night, which is why the democrats are hopeful of taking the senate on the night as well. Trump is seen as hurting republican senators up for re election that night.

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Ozyhibby

08-10-2020, 12:17 PM

Next debate will be a virtual debate with both candidates in separate locations. Trump will hate that. He’ll probably pull out.

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Mikey

08-10-2020, 12:21 PM

Next debate will be a virtual debate with both candidates in separate locations. Trump will hate that. He’ll probably pull out.

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He has done already.

Moulin Yarns

08-10-2020, 12:33 PM

He has done already.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54465139

Callum_62

08-10-2020, 12:44 PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54465139He is such a twat man

Honestly how can anyone vote for him?

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Ozyhibby

08-10-2020, 01:47 PM

https://twitter.com/revrrlewis/status/1314183096363896832?s=21

Harris has him worried.

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Ozyhibby

08-10-2020, 03:36 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201008/e2accc7a07e37611e544fb0aa02884a1.jpg

Polling moving very favourably in Biden’s direction.

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lapsedhibee

08-10-2020, 04:04 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201008/e2accc7a07e37611e544fb0aa02884a1.jpg

Polling moving very favourably in Biden’s direction.

Polling done before or after Trump revealed that Harris is an unlikeable communist? :dunno:

One Day Soon

08-10-2020, 04:28 PM

Yes. He could win the election but the senate could flip to the democrats. Very unlikely though. The performance of the presidential vote is usually reflected down the ballot to the other races on the night, which is why the democrats are hopeful of taking the senate on the night as well. Trump is seen as hurting republican senators up for re election that night.

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The only way I could enjoy a massive Trump defeat any more than I otherwise would is if sitting Republicans up for re-election start to publicly jump ship and rat on him in the hope of saving their own skins. Even more delicious if that then proves insufficient to stop the Democrats from taking both houses.

lapsedhibee

08-10-2020, 08:55 PM

The only way I could enjoy a massive Trump defeat any more than I otherwise would is if sitting Republicans up for re-election start to publicly jump ship and rat on him in the hope of saving their own skins. Even more delicious if that then proves insufficient to stop the Democrats from taking both houses.

First part happening now. (https://twitter.com/BBCJonSopel/status/1314268582721794051)

Hibbyradge

08-10-2020, 10:21 PM

First part happening now. (https://twitter.com/BBCJonSopel/status/1314268582721794051)

I saw that and I thought of your post above.

It does look bad for Trump, and I do hope more republicans desert him publicly, but I still have the bad feeling that he'll pull something out of the bag to save his presidency.

Mikey

21-10-2020, 09:23 AM

93%. I think that's the highest I've seen it.

https://projects.economist.com/us-2020-forecast/president

Ozyhibby

21-10-2020, 09:34 AM

I saw that and I thought of your post above.

It does look bad for Trump, and I do hope more republicans desert him publicly, but I still have the bad feeling that he'll pull something out of the bag to save his presidency.

Will be difficult to change much now. A massive amount of people have already voted. More than half of all Texas voters have voted already.

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lapsedhibee

21-10-2020, 09:39 AM

Will be difficult to change much now.

Coney Barrett to be confirmed Monday.
Pay someone to steal some postal ballots.
Photo some ballots for Trump in a ditch.
Ask the SC to rule the election stolen.

hibsbollah

21-10-2020, 09:50 AM

Will be difficult to change much now. A massive amount of people have already voted. More than half of all Texas voters have voted already.

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Yes, Many millions have already cast their vote, but in many states these votes aren’t allowed to be physically counted until after the election, so they won’t form part of the initial ‘in person’ count on the day and we won’t see them until after election night. Far more Republicans will vote in person in the traditional way so it’s not clear how much of Biden’s poll lead will be reflected on election night itself.

One Day Soon

21-10-2020, 05:06 PM

Yes, Many millions have already cast their vote, but in many states these votes aren’t allowed to be physically counted until after the election, so they won’t form part of the initial ‘in person’ count on the day and we won’t see them until after election night. Far more Republicans will vote in person in the traditional way so it’s not clear how much of Biden’s poll lead will be reflected on election night itself.

I was aware that many results were likely to be more delayed than usual but hadn't read into or fully thought through the consequences of that. Unless it is some kind of landslide (which by any objective measure it should be, but won't) it was already going to be a Johnny Brownpants kind of a night but the prospect you outline makes it much, much worse.

Not to cross thread themes too much but amid all of this semi-permanent suspended animation we are living through, the outcome of this election has assumed even greater importance for me politically and mentally. If they can't dump this utter fraud after the last four years then culture wars has won and will only get worse. If on the other hand Biden wins it may not exactly be a new utopia but at least relatively sane people who operate by relatively sane standards will be in charge. This presidential election has a significance way beyond the obvious as far as I'm concerned. It's hope or hell.