SPFL The vote

[Heisenberg]

Don’t know how I deleted that other post. Dundee expected to finally come out with a statement shortly but a couple of journalists have hinted it won’t give a yes or no today.

[Billy Whizz]

Don’t know how I deleted that other post. Dundee expected to finally come out with a statement shortly but a couple of journalists have hinted it won’t give a yes or no today.

It’s up now, but site is very slow

[Billy Whizz]

https://dundeefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-25/

[Mon Dieu4]

Dundee statement is out, still haven't made their mind up as they are in cloud cuckoo land thinking that there might be reconstruction

[Heisenberg]

It’s up now, but site is very slow

No vote today. They’ve have positive discussions for the past few days with reconstruction at the forefront and that’s basically all they’ve said.

[Bostonhibby]

No vote today. They’ve been in discussions for the past few days with reconstruction at the forefront and that’s basically all they’ve said.What a set up, looks like the 85% or so are being thwarted by the fall guy for the 15%.



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[Greenworld]

No vote today. They’ve have positive discussions for the past few days with reconstruction at the forefront and that’s basically all they’ve said.Bored with them now tell the to beat it and send their no vote in

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[hibbyfraelibby]

If legally clubs have 28 days to respond to this vote and apparently you are allowed to change your vote of either Yes or No, what is to stop clubs changing their mind within those 28 days?

In theory, Hibs could weigh up other options and change their vote next week? Or Livingston could change their vote in 10 days time? We won't know the true result of the vote until the legal 28 day period has passed.

Otherwise when does your vote become final?? If Dundee voted Yes originally and there is proof that an email was sent to the SPFL doing so then surely their vote should count. And if they are allowed to change their vote then surely all clubs in Scotland can still do so?

The rules published way back up this thread nake it clear that once a Yes vote is cast it is fixed. A No vote can be changed to Yes at any time the voting period is open. Thems thd rules this members organisation has, ratified by the members including those complaining.

[munchar]

No vote today. They’ve been in discussions for the past few days with reconstruction at the forefront and that’s basically all they’ve said.

How will reconstruction help Dundee? There’s no way they’ll get promoted. Best they can hope for is 2 up & Hearts stay up, will make it easier for them next season. If they take much longer, some clubs will go bust, & UEFA may end the season anyway.

[Sammy7nil]

No vote today. They’ve have positive discussions for the past few days with reconstruction at the forefront and that’s basically all they’ve said.

As expected Hearts will weasel their way out of this :boo hoo: :worms: :coffee: :panic:

[Michael]

Dundee statement:



Following a weekend of discussion and contemplation, we would like to issue the following statement.

As we made clear in our statement on Friday afternoon, it is a time for integrity and impartiality within Scottish football. Our view on that has not changed.

Over the past few days, we have entered into various positive discussions with reconstruction at the forefront of these.

Given our discussions and considering all aspects, we don’t feel we are in a position to comment further on the resolution that was put forward.

We understand that this may bring more questions than answers and we will look to give a much more substantial account of the past few days at the conclusion of this process.

Our supporters should know that we are, as always, looking out for the best interests of both Dundee Football Club and Scottish football as a whole.

[Sammy7nil]

Bored with them now tell the to beat it and send their no vote in

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Bored now too think I will drop out for a few days and see where we are then

[Lunatic]

My favourite bit is the start of the second paragraph

"As we made clear in our statement on Friday afternoon,"

If that's the same statement I read, they made absolutely **** ALL clear with their statement on Friday afternoon.....

[grunt]

Dundee statement:I got "integrity" in the statement bingo.
Anyone else?

[weecounty hibby]

Dundee statement:

What a pile of pish. What are they hoping for? I just can't see what they have to gain. They would need 3 up from Div 1 in reconstruction for them to benefit. Honestly I just don't get why they are even thinking about no.

[Mon Dieu4]

My favourite bit is the start of the second paragraph

"As we made clear in our statement on Friday afternoon,"

If that's the same statement I read, they made absolutely **** ALL clear with their statement on Friday afternoon.....

My favourite bit is we will do what's good for Scottish football as a whole and potentially put a few clubs to the wall who are skint

[Iain G]

Dundee statement:

Pr1cks.

[Billy Whizz]

What a pile of pish. What are they hoping for? I just can't see what they have to gain. They would need 3 up from Div 1 in reconstruction for them to benefit. Honestly I just don't get why they are even thinking about no.

Hope they aren’t talking about Premiership reconstruction

[The Harp Awakes]

How will reconstruction help Dundee? There’s no way they’ll get promoted. Best they can hope for is 2 up & Hearts stay up, will make it easier for them next season. If they take much longer, some clubs will go bust, & UEFA may end the season anyway.

Presumably Dundee will be proposing a 16 team league with the top 4 in the Championship (including themselves) joining Hearts and the rest of the Premiership.

Would not stand a chance of getting voted through though.

[munchar]

Dundee statement:

Has their CEO not been told of the “sporting integrity” shown by Hearts towards Dundee? Finished the season 14 points ahead of Dundee, knowing that going into administration would result in a 15 point deduction. Hearts then put themselves into administration, thus saving themselves, & relegating Dundee. Hearts looking after their own interests, but 💯% ZERO sporting integrity shown there. Hearts have a brass neck trying to blame everyone else for the position they find themselves in. Nobody’s fault but their own mismanagement & incompetence.

[Ozyhibby]

Just need to be patient. The No voters have not put up a single proposal yet. There is no route to victory for them from here. Hibs have enough money just now so sit back and wait.
If clubs go under in the meantime, that’s up to Dundee.


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[Heisenberg]

Hope they aren’t talking about Premiership reconstruction

They can talk about it if they like but no one has the capability to just push it through, the rules remain in place that require any reconstruction to have a vote carried out and it needs an 11-1 majority in favour from the Premiership. It’s an massive long shot.

[Joe6-2]

Bored with them now tell the to beat it and send their no vote in

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As they have withdrawn they’re no vote, shouldn’t it be assumed they are voting yes?
Can they vote no again?

[coldingham hibs]

Bored now too think I will drop out for a few days and see where we are then

Also getting bored with this, maybe the supporters of all the clubs who voted ‘Yes’ should just agree to boycott all Dundee FC games and that may get their sleekit arse in gear.

[Andy74]

Times like this require a form of dictatorship, or at least a functioning board that makes decisions.

Voting on sporting outcomes and consequences is always going to be led by self interest. Doesn’t work.

[Heisenberg]

Times like this require a form of dictatorship, or at least a functioning board that makes decisions.

Voting on sporting outcomes and consequences is always going to be led by self interest. Doesn’t work.

Good point. It appears the SPFL do have the power to end the season but are not willing to do it. Think we’ll be waiting till the UEFA meeting next week before getting a better idea of what will happen.

[munchar]

Times like this require a form of dictatorship, or at least a functioning board that makes decisions.

Voting on sporting outcomes and consequences is always going to be led by self interest. Doesn’t work.

Time the board grew a set of balls & stood up to clubs who are basically making rash pathetic statements. We all know it’s not fair on any teams bar the winners, & even then Kelty are champions but denied promotion! All teams will just have to suck it up & get on with things. Tell Dundee to put in a Yes/No vote & move on. Every teams first concern us their own welfare. The good of Scottish football is secondary to everything else. Clubs need to be told the pandemic has ended the season, not the board. Finish the season, pay prize money, move on!

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=4363

[Aldo]

Good point. It appears the SPFL do have the power to end the season but are not willing to do it. Think we’ll be waiting till the UEFA meeting next week before getting a better idea of what will happen.

I think given the magnitude of it all they put it out to vote.

I think we have to remember that 85% of the affiliated members have voted in favour of all this yet all we are hearing are the minority.

I do understand why but cmon let’s just get this done. Dundee are the only team not to vote and whilst it is their vote to do as they please I think they maybe taking the piss!


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[Rumble de Thump]

Dundee are a bunch of cowboys.

[greenpaper55]

Dundee saying they have had positive discussions about a league restructure, with who, Rangers and Hearts ? It does not state that the SPFL is going along with this. Have they had a chat with SKY about the tv deal ? no.

[Aldo]

Dundee saying they have had positive discussions about a league restructure, with who, Rangers and Hearts ? It does not state that the SPFL is going along with this. Have they had a chat with SKY about the tv deal ? no.

They can discuss it with whoever they want but it’s pointless imho. I can see only 1 team in the SPL that would vote for it and that’s the team currently sitting bottom.


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[Rumble de Thump]

The SPFL have already said they were committed to holding discussions abut potential league recontrcution once the vote on the current proposal was concluded. Ironically, the club that says they are having positive discussions about league reconstruction are the one and only club holding up discussions about league reconstruction.

[The 90+2]

https://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=4363

Piss poor on teams like Dumbarton.

[green day]

https://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=4363

Thats a beaut.

Basically telling DFC to get a ****** move on

[Aldo]

Thats a beaut.

Basically telling DFC to get a ****** move on

Rightly so. Either they are or are not. Simple really. Wee power trip from the Dundee Chairman


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[hibbyfraelibby]

Dundee saying they have had positive discussions about a league restructure, with who, Rangers and Hearts ? It does not state that the SPFL is going along with this. Have they had a chat with SKY about the tv deal ? no.

The only reconstruction that would be remotely acceptable is expanding the Championship, permenantly, to 12. Run like the Prem. It addresses the Partick problem and allows two up from L1 which in turn helps address the Stranraer question. Then to top it all it lets Edin City up (a no vote) from L2 leaVing two vacancies in L2 letting both Borra and Kelty up, saving Brechin.

At least three No votes swung to Yes and no impact on the Prem with Hurtz down

Gets us round the empasse and kind of sets it up for 12/12 - 8/8/8 in the future.

[RossScott1991]

Statements galore, hard to keep up! Should get Jeff Stelling and the soccer Saturday gang to cover this , cross over to each club for the latest

[Waxy]

Just the teams who’s footballing performances were not what they had hoped this year trying to use the situation as a get out of jail free card.
Wonder if i went to the bank and ask if they’d pay my mortgage for me?
Doubt it.
If Dundee vote no then we’ll have to no choice but to wait and play out the season when football restarts.

[Billy Whizz]

Just the teams who’s footballing performances were not what they had hoped this year trying to use the situation as a get out of jail free card.
Wonder if i went to the bank and ask if they’d pay my mortgage for me?
Doubt it.
If Dundee vote no then we’ll have to no choice but to wait and play out the season when football restarts.
If the Government allow it

[Greenworld]

As they have withdrawn they’re no vote, shouldn’t it be assumed they are voting yes?
Can they vote no again?I think so they have basically said they didn't want there vote to count when it arrived. ( maybe sent to arrive at 8pm or whenever) so they can still vote yes or no

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[Greenworld]

Just the teams who’s footballing performances were not what they had hoped this year trying to use the situation as a get out of jail free card.
Wonder if i went to the bank and ask if they’d pay my mortgage for me?
Doubt it.
If Dundee vote no then we’ll have to no choice but to wait and play out the season when football restarts.They could hold another vote unless rules do not allow it.
If Dundee vote no after this i will be amazed but i can't believe the Spfl are giving them any guarantees on anything other than putting reconstruction out to the clubs to vote on.

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[Springbank]

The only reconstruction that would be remotely acceptable is expanding the Championship, permenantly, to 12. Run like the Prem. It addresses the Partick problem and allows two up from L1 which in turn helps address the Stranraer question. Then to top it all it lets Edin City up (a no vote) from L2 leaVing two vacancies in L2 letting both Borra and Kelty up, saving Brechin.

At least three No votes swung to Yes and no impact on the Prem with Hurtz down

Gets us round the empasse and kind of sets it up for 12/12 - 8/8/8 in the future.

As Hibees it is delicious irony that:

The 2 clubs who cant afford to put principle before financial necessity are Hearts & Rangers (so it needs to resolve in April)

AND

Dundee are the king makers.

They're 3rd in the championship so any reconstruction needs to be 3 up 1 down.

Sorry jambos....

[Dr What If?]

Actually, what is the option if there is no resolution? Do we just wait until we get to a point where we physically can't play the games and have to call the season void? Or do we wait until clubs start going 'pop' and we start to worry that there might not be enough clubs left? Little wonder fewer kids are getting into Scottish football teams....league is a bit of a joke!
FWIW I am a big supporter of reconstruction.....my preference is a 14 team premier (mid season 7/7 split) and ONE lower division of 20-24 teams. Can't just enact that though to save a club from relegation, needs to be agreed before a seasons starts AND shouldn't be an excuse for top level protectionism.

[Spike Mandela]

They can discuss it with whoever they want but it’s pointless imho. I can see only 1 team in the SPL that would vote for it and that’s the team currently sitting bottom.


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Wouldn’t be too sure. Depends what it is. If some mid table to bottom six type clubs see it as a safer way of staying up next season and If, as I suspect it is the 6/8 split for one season only, some of the teams challenging for Europe may see no big change. Then if the prize money isn’t changed too much at the top two end then the bigot bros might go along with it as well.

Heart will play the sympathy card to maximum effect via the media and their apologists, will win the statement league by a mile and as I have always suspected we will be railroaded into bailing them out again.

[ScottB]

If Dundee vote No we’ll just have another vote once UEFA change their position.

Macron has extended the ban on sport in France till mid July now, so the chances of finishing ‘this’ season is getting slimmer by the day.

[The 90+2]

Wouldn’t be too sure. Depends what it is. If some mid table to bottom six type clubs see it as a safer way of staying up next season and If, as I suspect it is the 6/8 split for one season only, some of the teams challenging for Europe may see no big change. Then if the prize money isn’t changed too much at the top two end then the bigot bros might go along with it as well.

Heart will play the sympathy card to maximum effect via the media and their apologists, will win the statement league by a mile and as I have always suspected we will be railroaded into bailing them out again.

This is the fear, based on many many many experiences.

[Aldo]

Wouldn’t be too sure. Depends what it is. If some mid table to bottom six type clubs see it as a safer way of staying up next season and If, as I suspect it is the 6/8 split for one season only, some of the teams challenging for Europe may see no big change. Then if the prize money isn’t changed too much at the top two end then the bigot bros might go along with it as well.

Heart will play the sympathy card to maximum effect via the media and their apologists, will win the statement league by a mile and as I have always suspected we will be railroaded into bailing them out again.

You could well be right Spike but I still see it as a very slim outside chance.

Indeed they will and it started way back when the league was suspended. You can bet they will go into statement overload should Dundee vote in favour of the resolution!


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[James Stephen]

I think if UEFA change their guidance, the SFA will follow suit, giving the SPFL board the mandate they need to simply exercise their perogative and decide arbitrarily.

They didnt need to put this to a vote as i understand it, and have the power to take this action without. If they have UEFA, SFA, maybe even Scottish Govt and the backing of 85% of clubs, i think they can safely do it.

[Onion]

No vote today. They’ve have positive discussions for the past few days with reconstruction at the forefront and that’s basically all they’ve said.

So, a basket case of a club, Dundee - representing 15% of clubs - have taken on the role of sorting out the whole of Scottish football during a Global Pandemic and serious financial crisis. The SFA must be delighted :greengrin

Only in Scotland could such a crazy thing be allowed to happen.

[lord bunberry]

Wouldn’t be too sure. Depends what it is. If some mid table to bottom six type clubs see it as a safer way of staying up next season and If, as I suspect it is the 6/8 split for one season only, some of the teams challenging for Europe may see no big change. Then if the prize money isn’t changed too much at the top two end then the bigot bros might go along with it as well.

Heart will play the sympathy card to maximum effect via the media and their apologists, will win the statement league by a mile and as I have always suspected we will be railroaded into bailing them out again.
As soon as Celtic are awarded the league rangers will dump their pound shop hun pals and go back to voting for the status quo with Celtic. There’s no chance of getting reconstruction through with the 11/1 voting system.

[Jim44]

The clown(s) at Dundee FC is basking in the self important power he has stumbled upon in the past few days. Whether by choice or accident, he is quickly creating enemies on both sides of the divide.

[GreenCastle]

https://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=4363

"If the resolution is to be adopted, we would see that as a positive outcome. We are not ourselves in a position to worry about titles, relegations or the promise of league reconstruction. The financial survival of the club has to be our top priority."

Dundee sitting watching others struggle - nonsense they care about the bigger picture of Scottish football. This is all about them trying to get the best deal for themselves. Other clubs obviously want a good deal too - but the longer this goes more clubs will have issues with them and the others who voted against it.

[jacomo]

https://news.stv.tv/sport/football/partick-thistle-insists-dundees-no-vote-must-stand

Partick Thistle having a hissy fit




Indeed. Apparently ‘dismayed that Scottish football is still in limbo.’

The reason it is in limbo is because a small minority of clubs (inc the Jags) are voting in their own self interest.

They’ve got the UK’s largest lottery win behind them. I think they’ll cope.

[BoomtownHibees]

Indeed. Apparently ‘dismayed that Scottish football is still in limbo.’

The reason it is in limbo is because a small minority of clubs (inc the Jags) are voting in their own self interest.

They’ve got the UK’s largest lottery win behind them. I think they’ll cope.

No anymore

[BoomtownHibees]

Just read that Doncaster “earns” £388k a year 😳

[Billy Whizz]

Listening to Clyde just now, reporter has just said the below about finishing football this season

He reckons if the players are allowed to train after 10th June. He reckons 1st game could be around 22nd July at earliest
He gave the example of Arbroath, who are just outside the play offs. Played 26 games, and have 10 league games to play. They could also go all through the play offs, which could be another 6 games, so 16 games in total. Good knows when the season would finish, and if they went up, you can’t start the Premiership

This is if football is even given the green light in June, which I’m sceptical about

[The 90+2]

Listening to Clyde just now, reporter has just said the below about finishing football this season

He reckons if the players are allowed to train after 10th June. He reckons 1st game could be around 22nd July at earliest
He gave the example of Arbroath, who are just outside the play offs. Played 26 games, and have 10 league games to play. They could also go all through the play offs, which could be another 6 games, so 16 games in total. Good knows when the season would finish, and if they went up, you can’t start the Premiership

This is if football is even given the green light in June, which I’m sceptical about
That would give more of an advantage to clubs with not so many players in contract or potentially cripple the clubs extending contracts.

[Billy Whizz]

That would give more of an advantage to clubs with not so many players in contract or potentially cripple the clubs extending contracts.

If this went ahead as above, a lot of league clubs could go bust

[mjhibby]

Listening to Clyde just now, reporter has just said the below about finishing football this season

He reckons if the players are allowed to train after 10th June. He reckons 1st game could be around 22nd July at earliest
He gave the example of Arbroath, who are just outside the play offs. Played 26 games, and have 10 league games to play. They could also go all through the play offs, which could be another 6 games, so 16 games in total. Good knows when the season would finish, and if they went up, you can’t start the Premiership

This is if football is even given the green light in June, which I’m sceptical about

Season is not going to finish. Even if we attempt to there's no way next season wouldn't be compromised so it's moving the loss to next season. The fact Hertz have put their season tickets in sale and mentioned possible relegation in their statement shows Dundee are just enjoying the limelight and I'd be very surprised if there is any reconstruction. We shall see.

[mjhibby]

Rightly so. Either they are or are not. Simple really. Wee power trip from the Dundee Chairman


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Exactly.

[HFC93]

Dundee FC are like one of those people who post cryptic attention seeking posts on social media.

[Waxy]

Can see the leagues having to call the leagues as finished but have no choice to relegate the teams at the bottom, and have to go through the playoffs as normal when football eventually restarts.

[mjhibby]

I think if UEFA change their guidance, the SFA will follow suit, giving the SPFL board the mandate they need to simply exercise their perogative and decide arbitrarily.

They didnt need to put this to a vote as i understand it, and have the power to take this action without. If they have UEFA, SFA, maybe even Scottish Govt and the backing of 85% of clubs, i think they can safely do it.

That's the way I see it. Rod will not be bothered about Dundee's shenanigans and will patiently wait then after uefa shut down this season will force it through. Just wish they had waited till after April 23 rd and uefas meeting.

[Billy Whizz]

Can see the leagues having to call the leagues as finished but have no choice to relegate the teams at the bottom, and have to go through the playoffs as normal when football eventually restarts.

Not sure what you mean Waxy?

[truehibernian]

Dundee FC are like one of those people who post cryptic attention seeking posts on social media.

I think Dundee are holding out for a 16 team league (top flight). No football will be played until July/August that's for certain, and Gordon Strachan favours bigger leagues - he's on record saying it. It's their one and only chance to get out of the Championship now rather than in 2/3/4 seasons time under normal circumstances..........and no Dundee chairman would want to vote for United (only) coming up.

Said it before, had Budge and Hearts shown humility and a bit of compassion, I'd be all for reconstruction - they way they've acted and postured I want them relegated :aok: and Dundee to wallow for years in the mire :aok:

[The 90+2]

If this went ahead as above, a lot of league clubs could go bust

Yep. All so the huns can play out the season. Which they will get scudded in and Gerard will be under even more pressure. Everyone’s forgotten how ***** rangers and hearts have became. End the season league places now that will still be forgotten and they have some kind of cause.

[Onion]

Listening to Clyde just now, reporter has just said the below about finishing football this season

He reckons if the players are allowed to train after 10th June. He reckons 1st game could be around 22nd July at earliest
He gave the example of Arbroath, who are just outside the play offs. Played 26 games, and have 10 league games to play. They could also go all through the play offs, which could be another 6 games, so 16 games in total. Good knows when the season would finish, and if they went up, you can’t start the Premiership

This is if football is even given the green light in June, which I’m sceptical about

That's where you went wrong. Only on Planet Sevco or in Ann Budge's wet dreams will there be football this summer. The sooner we get UEFA's U-Turn on ending the seasons, the better. Then all this fantasy stuff can stop.

[Onion]

Dundee FC are like one of those people who post cryptic attention seeking posts on social media.

Anyone think they'll be endearing themselves to the SFA / SPFL ?

Must be absolutely fizzing.

[Billy Whizz]

That's where you went wrong. Only on Planet Sevco or in Ann Budge's wet dreams will there be football this summer. The sooner we get UEFA's U-Turn on ending the seasons, the better. Then all this fantasy stuff can stop.

Sorry the reporter Roger Hannah, said it was fantasy to finish the leagues
He reckons it could be October before Scottish football resumes

[Gordy M]

The problem with UEFA making a decision that covers all of Europe is that different leagues might be ready at different times. Are the Bundesliga not getting ready to start up again the next month or so? Im not sure they would be very happy if they did and Uefa called a blanket halt. Im not sure its quite as easy as saying thats all the leagues finished.

[Keith_M]

Dundee statement is out, still haven't made their mind up as they are in cloud cuckoo land thinking that there might be reconstruction



Oh well, I got my hopes up for nothing then.


:rolleyes:

[mjhibby]

Anyone think they'll be endearing themselves to the SFA / SPFL ?

Must be absolutely fizzing.

Dundee have managed to pee off just about everbody in Scottish football. Whatever they do now they will be in deep poo with what they are doing. Bravo you cretins.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Couldn’t one of the other championship clubs change their vote from No to Yes and then Dundee’s become irrelevant? Money talks and the longer this goes on, the more desperate others may become.

[Michael]

New song for Dundee:

No one man should have all that power
The clock's ticking', I just count the hours
Stop tripping', I'm tripping' off the power

[mjhibby]

The problem with UEFA making a decision that covers all of Europe is that different leagues might be ready at different times. Are the Bundesliga not getting ready to start up again the next month or so? Im not sure they would be very happy if they did and Uefa called a blanket halt. Im not sure its quite as easy as saying thats all the leagues finished.

With macron extending the lockdown until July then uefa have to make a call. If they are serious about finishing the season then the euros will have to be postponed otherwise some players could be playing for a year with no break. There are so many obstacles to finishing a league in any country they should try to ensure we start next season as close to on time. Pointless discussing resuming until govts give dates we can resume. Total lack of leadership at all levels of football.

[Springbank]

Couldn’t one of the other championship clubs change their vote from No to Yes and then Dundee’s become irrelevant? Money talks and the longer this goes on, the more desperate others may become.

There were only two

Partick seem unlikely (they would be relegated and took legal advice)

ICT have become a laughing stock. If they did change vote it would be as part of Scot Gardiner's sacking (and new employment at ibrox, if the rumours are true)

[green day]

With macron extending the lockdown until July then uefa have to make a call. If they are serious about finishing the season then the euros will have to be postponed otherwise some players could be playing for a year with no break. There are so many obstacles to finishing a league in any country they should try to ensure we start next season as close to on time. Pointless discussing resuming until govts give dates we can resume. Total lack of leadership at all levels of football.

Where is this being reported?

I wouldnt necessarily be surprised if it lasts that long, but would have thought they will continue to extend in 3 week intervals????

[Del Boy]

Is the spfl board meeting taking place tonight? Imagine they are discussing whatever it is Dundee have proposed. Should we expect yet another statement this evening?

[Springbank]

Where is this being reported?

I wouldnt necessarily be surprised if it lasts that long, but would have thought they will continue to extend in 3 week intervals????

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/14/tour-de-france-on-hold-after-macron-extends-outdoor-sports-ban-till-july-cycling

[HendoDelivered]

This whole thing as been an absolute car crash. Embarrassing for Scottish football.

[green day]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/14/tour-de-france-on-hold-after-macron-extends-outdoor-sports-ban-till-july-cycling

Cheers, I missed that.

Slightly amusing that he is lifting the ban on mass gatherings 3 days before Bastille Day !!!

[RossScott1991]

https://www.bonnyriggrosefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-2529271.html

Statement from Bonnyrigg this evening.

[green day]

https://www.bonnyriggrosefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-2529271.html

Statement from Bonnyrigg this evening.

Seems like everyone "needs" to make a statement no matter how diddy.

Very Jambo club, so their statement can be ignored as well

[HibbyAndy]

https://www.bonnyriggrosefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-2529271.html

Statement from Bonnyrigg this evening.

Meh

[nonshinyfinish]

Personally I like seeing the smaller clubs having a go and coming out with a statement, even if they simply don't have the strength in depth of shaved monkeys furiously thumbing through a thesaurus to keep pace with the big boys.

[Smartie]

Sorry the reporter Roger Hannah, said it was fantasy to finish the leagues
He reckons it could be October before Scottish football resumes

I've met him a few times.

Decent bloke and knows his stuff.

He's not generally far off the mark.

[GreenCastle]

https://www.bonnyriggrosefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-2529271.html

Statement from Bonnyrigg this evening.

Didn’t see any congratulations to league winners?

Teams trying to chance it by getting reconstruction so they can move up the pyramid quicker.

Again as has been said - wasn’t even on the table till a few weeks ago.

Rushing it though would be a bigger farce than the vote where Dundee are acting like idiots.

[Carheenlea]

Seems like everyone "needs" to make a statement no matter how diddy.

Very Jambo club, so their statement can be ignored as well

:hilarious

[Rumble de Thump]

This breakaway league is looking better every minute. Who's next to join?

[wookie70]

Seems like everyone "needs" to make a statement no matter how diddy.

Very Jambo club, so their statement can be ignored as well They are in second place and advocating that the first place team is considered for promotion as per the leagues above. That is far away from a Jambo statement

[basehibby]

I know this is going to see me shot down engulfed in flames but - for me the only sensible solution to this mess is reconstruction.

YES - I know it would save the Yams' unworthy and spawny cheating *****. But if you put aside your natural distaste for them you've got to admit that they along with the other bottom dwellers would still have plenty opportunity to save themselves in the increasingly far fetched unlikelyhood of this season ever being completed - and this could realistically lead to messy and costly legal action down the road if a less than fair arrangement is reached. Even the most far gone of the basement-dwellers - Stranraer - are some way off being mathematically doomed at this stage - while Hearts and especially Partick were both in with a realistic fighting chance of survival before COVID-19 struck.

We currently have 42 teams in the Senior League so reconstruction would be simple and could in many ways improve the competition.

3 Leagues of 14 teams - KEEP the split and apply to all 3 leagues. Except rather than the uneven mess we currently have play fixtures as follows:

All 14 play off H&A = 26 games
Split
Top and bottom halves play off - H&A - 12 games
Total 38 Games

Same quantity of matches in the top league while the lower leagues get a couple of extra fixtures to help balance the books.
Telly get to keep all their big matches
NOONE is relegated
2 up from Championship
6 up from Div 1
Everyone up from Div 2

Everyone's a winner baby - oops apart from Dundee. Knew there had to be a hair in the ointment somewhere :greengrin

Seriously - amidst all this crisis all the clubs need to be looking out for each other rather than tearing each other apart - and yes that even includes Hearts. Something like the above would provide a neat cut and dried solution while heading off legal disputes which may emerge in the wake of the leagues being frozen as is.

Right that's me said my piece - now take aim and FIRE! :tin hat:

[CropleyWasGod]

Didn’t see any congratulations to league winners?

Teams trying to chance it by getting reconstruction so they can move up the pyramid quicker.

Again as has been said - wasn’t even on the table till a few weeks ago.

Rushing it though would be a bigger farce than the vote where Dundee are acting like idiots.

I think they are probably P'd off that Kelty will still be in the same League as them next season. As their statement says, the promoted teams have done well in League 2, so they obviously fancied their chances of going up next year and staying up.

[Frankhfc]

Season is not going to finish. Even if we attempt to there's no way next season wouldn't be compromised so it's moving the loss to next season. The fact Hertz have put their season tickets in sale and mentioned possible relegation in their statement shows Dundee are just enjoying the limelight and I'd be very surprised if there is any reconstruction. We shall see.

I agree. There's no chance whatsover of this season restarting. I can't see any other practical plan out there other than the proposed one which should sooner or later succeed. Its also highly debatatable whether or not there'll be any contact sport resumed this year, unless testing has moved towards infallible and/or a vaccine is developed quicker than the current forecast. Relaxing of lockdowns will include social distancing and other measures until such time. Its a fairytale to imagine this season will resume. Hearts will have to suck it up.

[007 Mickey Weir]

The only reconstruction that would be remotely acceptable is expanding the Championship, permenantly, to 12. Run like the Prem. It addresses the Partick problem and allows two up from L1 which in turn helps address the Stranraer question. Then to top it all it lets Edin City up (a no vote) from L2 leaVing two vacancies in L2 letting both Borra and Kelty up, saving Brechin.

At least three No votes swung to Yes and no impact on the Prem with Hurtz down

Gets us round the empasse and kind of sets it up for 12/12 - 8/8/8 in the future.

I really like this idea.

The 8/8/8 has been discussed. Have Spl1 and Spl2. Both with 12 in it. Then splitting into 3 leagues of 8 after playing home and away. (22 games) then each group playing each other home and away (14 games) the middle league top 4 stay in SPl1 and bottom 4 drop into Spl2 for the next season.
I like it.
Could work towards spl3 of same format. Then two leagues under that lowland and highlands/north.

[allezsauzee]

Seems like everyone "needs" to make a statement no matter how diddy.

Very Jambo club, so their statement can be ignored as well

This!

125,000 dead but this lot and their yam pals are the real victims in this crisis. All these clubs whining about the injustice are conveniently ignoring the fact that they are being relegated/missing out on promotion as result of their own failure to win enough points during the course of the season.

[Michael]

I really like this idea.

The 8/8/8 has been discussed. Have Spl1 and Spl2. Both with 12 in it. Then splitting into 3 leagues of 8 after playing home and away. (22 games) then each group playing each other home and away (14 games) the middle league top 4 stay in SPl1 and bottom 4 drop into Spl2 for the next season.
I like it.
Could work towards spl3 of same format. Then two leagues under that lowland and highlands/north.

What happens in the bottom 8 league? Seems a bit boring for them, unless I'm missing something.

[lapsedhibee]

I agree. There's no chance whatsover of this season restarting. I can't see any other practical plan out there other than the proposed one which should sooner or later succeed. Its also highly debatatable whether or not there'll be any contact sport resumed this year, unless testing has moved towards infallible and/or a vaccine is developed quicker than the current forecast. Relaxing of lockdowns will include social distancing and other measures until such time. Its a fairytale to imagine this season will resume. Hearts will have to suck it up.

And also debatable whether it'll be resumed next year (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/coronavirus-distancing-continue-until-2022-lockdown-pandemic)

[Ozyhibby]

I know this is going to see me shot down engulfed in flames but - for me the only sensible solution to this mess is reconstruction.

YES - I know it would save the Yams' unworthy and spawny cheating *****. But if you put aside your natural distaste for them you've got to admit that they along with the other bottom dwellers would still have plenty opportunity to save themselves in the increasingly far fetched unlikelyhood of this season ever being completed - and this could realistically lead to messy and costly legal action down the road if a less than fair arrangement is reached. Even the most far gone of the basement-dwellers - Stranraer - are some way off being mathematically doomed at this stage - while Hearts and especially Partick were both in with a realistic fighting chance of survival before COVID-19 struck.

We currently have 42 teams in the Senior League so reconstruction would be simple and could in many ways improve the competition.

3 Leagues of 14 teams - KEEP the split and apply to all 3 leagues. Except rather than the uneven mess we currently have play fixtures as follows:

All 14 play off H&A = 26 games
Split
Top and bottom halves play off - H&A - 12 games
Total 38 Games

Same quantity of matches in the top league while the lower leagues get a couple of extra fixtures to help balance the books.
Telly get to keep all their big matches
NOONE is relegated
2 up from Championship
6 up from Div 1
Everyone up from Div 2

Everyone's a winner baby - oops apart from Dundee. Knew there had to be a hair in the ointment somewhere :greengrin

Seriously - amidst all this crisis all the clubs need to be looking out for each other rather than tearing each other apart - and yes that even includes Hearts. Something like the above would provide a neat cut and dried solution while heading off legal disputes which may emerge in the wake of the leagues being frozen as is.

Right that's me said my piece - now take aim and FIRE! :tin hat:

Everyone is not a winner. All of the 11 remaining clubs in the top flight lose a lot of money. About £600k according to the Aberdeen chairman. On top of what we will already lose next season I don’t think we can afford reconstruction. We would def need to sell Boyle to make up that kind of loss.


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[Frankhfc]

And also debatable whether it'll be resumed next year (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/coronavirus-distancing-continue-until-2022-lockdown-pandemic)

Its not out of the question, albeit, the talk is of a vaccine the middle of next year. I'd like to think the big brains out there will work it out before then. But, nothing seems certain just now unfortunately.

[007 Mickey Weir]

What happens in the bottom 8 league? Seems a bit boring for them, unless I'm missing something.

There would still be the chance of relegation to the lowland/highland leagues as it is now. Maybe two down/up?

[Ozyhibby]

And also debatable whether it'll be resumed next year (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/coronavirus-distancing-continue-until-2022-lockdown-pandemic)

Intermittently is the key word in that article. Doesn’t mean football needs to stop. Just means we need to take more care and there may be more breaks.


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[mcohibs]

Seems like everyone "needs" to make a statement no matter how diddy.

Very Jambo club, so their statement can be ignored as well

In what way are Bonnyrigg a 'jambo' club? 🤔

[BILLYHIBS]

This breakaway league is looking better every minute. Who's next to join?

Linfield

[04Sauzee]

Seems loke there are a good few clubs looking like they want a 14 team top league with Raith Rovers now behind this as well. Looks like Hearts will be in the top league next season.

[GreenCastle]

Its not out of the question, albeit, the talk is of a vaccine the middle of next year. I'd like to think the big brains out there will work it out before then. But, nothing seems certain just now unfortunately.

They don’t have a vaccine for common cold yet so they may not be even able to find one for COVID 19.

So many unknowns making these daily statements by clubs very petty considering what’s happening around the world.

[007 Mickey Weir]

Who in the SPL will vote for a 14 team top league other than Hearts. Nobody. All will stand to lose financially with a 14 team league.

[GreenCastle]

Seems loke there are a good few clubs looking like they want a 14 team top league with Raith Rovers now behind this as well. Looks like Hearts will be in the top league next season.

If the minority keep suggesting changes then the majority should just tell them where to go or suggest own proposals.

Can’t see clubs voting for less money in a time they need it most plus Sky signed up for a 12 team package not more. Lower teams can keep firing statements out but they may get a few likes on Twitter but doesn’t mean they will be seriously considered.

[Frankhfc]

They don’t have a vaccine for common cold yet so they may not be even able to find one for COVID 19.

So many unknowns making these daily statements by clubs very petty considering what’s happening around the world.

The common cold like the flu is able to mutate quite freely that makes it very difficult to find a definitive cure. The talk is Covid 19 does not appear so according to the experts I've heard discussing it, however, it is a complex virus with a vaccine not predicted until the middle of next year. Anyhow, I've maybe taken the thread off track a bit so will leave it there.

[Phil MaGlass]

Who in the SPL will vote for a 14 team top league other than Hearts. Nobody. All will stand to lose financially with a 14 team league.

Hertz wont be able to vote as they will already have been relegated from SPL

[Heisenberg]

I can see it going to a vote on reconstruction and it does look like there’s a good bit of support for it in the lower leagues. Problems will arise in the Premiership when they are trying to get teams to vote for receiving less tv money, less gate money from the OF and a higher chance of relegation for the smaller clubs.

[Phil MaGlass]

The common cold like the flu is able to mutate quite freely that makes it very difficult to find a definitive cure. The talk is Covid 19 does not appear so according to the experts I've heard discussing it, however, it is a complex virus with a vaccine not predicted until the middle of next year. Anyhow, I've maybe taken the thread off track a bit so will leave it there.

Isn't this already a second covid virus?

[hibbyfraelibby]

The problem with UEFA making a decision that covers all of Europe is that different leagues might be ready at different times. Are the Bundesliga not getting ready to start up again the next month or so? Im not sure they would be very happy if they did and Uefa called a blanket halt. Im not sure its quite as easy as saying thats all the leagues finished.

No government in Europe has yet re-authorised mass gatherings, including Germany. The Bundesliga can plan all they like to restart at a time of their fantasy but until governments approve even closed doors with their attendant rusks is off the Agenda.

[H18 SFR]

And also debatable whether it'll be resumed next year (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/coronavirus-distancing-continue-until-2022-lockdown-pandemic)

I was listening to LBC today and 2023 was suggested as well.

Life has to go on, so much hype, hysteria, counter hysteria and counter-counter hysteria going on.

[basehibby]

Everyone is not a winner. All of the 11 remaining clubs in the top flight lose a lot of money. About £600k according to the Aberdeen chairman. On top of what we will already lose next season I don’t think we can afford reconstruction. We would def need to sell Boyle to make up that kind of loss.


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Not true - look again! In the 14 team league with split outlined above, teams finishing in the top half would surely earn MORE money than now due to finishing the season with more than double (12) the fixtures against the top half teams compared to now (5). It would also solve at a stroke the currently ridiculous fixture card whereby you don't know if your ST will bag you 18, 19 or 20 home fixtures - with a guaranteed even balance of home and away fixtures against all sides. Teams in the bottom half would probably earn less though - I'll give you that - but more breathing space against the threat of relegation might cushion that blow for some.

[greenpaper55]

The big question is will SKY still want the deal with only two OF games ?

[RossScott1991]

If it goes to a vote for league reconstruction then it will win as pretty much every lower league team will take that.

My gut feeling is SFA will be pressured into a 14 team league next season, even if it’s for one season temporarily to steady the ship in a way. Resulting in Hearts worming their way out of it.

If it was to become 14 teams how many fixtures would each team likely play? Would there be a top 7 etc.

[bingo70]

The big question is will SKY still want the deal with only two OF games ?

If there’s league reconstruction there’ll still be a split and there’ll still be 4 old firm games a season.

[hibbyfraelibby]

What happens in the bottom 8 league? Seems a bit boring for them, unless I'm missing something.

Bottom 8 play to ensure they stay up. Top 4 guaranteed bottom 2 auto relegated 5/6 into play offs is L1 3/4. Tasty league.

[Heisenberg]

If it goes to a vote for league reconstruction then it will win as pretty much every lower league team will take that.

My gut feeling is SFA will be pressured into a 14 team league next season, even if it’s for one season temporarily to steady the ship in a way. Resulting in Hearts worming their way out of it.

If it was to become 14 teams how many fixtures would each team likely play? Would there be a top 7 etc.

It’s needs an 11-1 majority in the Premiership, unless they decide to alter that but I’m not sure they can.

[BILLYHIBS]

The longer Dundee continue to drag their feet on this issue the more and more likely it looks as though Hearts are going to get off the hook

[Joe6-2]

With macron extending the lockdown until July then uefa have to make a call. If they are serious about finishing the season then the euros will have to be postponed otherwise some players could be playing for a year with no break. There are so many obstacles to finishing a league in any country they should try to ensure we start next season as close to on time. Pointless discussing resuming until govts give dates we can resume. Total lack of leadership at all levels of football.

Nothing new there, always more worried about lining their own pockets

[basehibby]

Who in the SPL will vote for a 14 team top league other than Hearts. Nobody. All will stand to lose financially with a 14 team league.

Not true - see above - any given season 7 of the top league would probably earn MORE than now.

[lapsedhibee]

Intermittently is the key word in that article. Doesn’t mean football needs to stop. Just means we need to take more care and there may be more breaks.

It's not just Hearts, trying to get 400,000 into a 19,000-seater 'stadium', that would have difficulty with maintaining gaps between spectators.

[basehibby]

I can see it going to a vote on reconstruction and it does look like there’s a good bit of support for it in the lower leagues. Problems will arise in the Premiership when they are trying to get teams to vote for receiving less tv money, less gate money from the OF and a higher chance of relegation for the smaller clubs.

None of this is correct.

7 teams could expect to earn more money than now and smaller clubs would have LESS chance of relegation in the 14 team set up I've outlined above.

[basehibby]

If it goes to a vote for league reconstruction then it will win as pretty much every lower league team will take that.

My gut feeling is SFA will be pressured into a 14 team league next season, even if it’s for one season temporarily to steady the ship in a way. Resulting in Hearts worming their way out of it.

If it was to become 14 teams how many fixtures would each team likely play? Would there be a top 7 etc.

38 games with a top 7 split

[CropleyWasGod]

None of this is correct.

7 teams could expect to earn more money than now and smaller clubs would have LESS chance of relegation in the 14 team set up I've outlined above.

7 might earn more, but the bottom 7 would earn less as they'd lose out on 1 home game against one of the OF.

Against that backdrop, which 11 teams out of the current 12 would vote for it?

[Rumble de Thump]

The solution that was gloing to be approved by the most clubs is the one currently proposed. If it doesn't get the thumbs up nothing else will.

[GreenCastle]

If it goes to a vote for league reconstruction then it will win as pretty much every lower league team will take that.

My gut feeling is SFA will be pressured into a 14 team league next season, even if it’s for one season temporarily to steady the ship in a way. Resulting in Hearts worming their way out of it.

If it was to become 14 teams how many fixtures would each team likely play? Would there be a top 7 etc.

The top 12 need to agree which I can’t see happening. The 11-1 vote many will argue can’t be changed and you won’t get 11 teams voting for less money - in a time they need more money than ever - including the huns. Have any of their statements mentioned reconstruction?? Probably a reason they don’t.

Lower leagues possibly but not sure if that would mean change could happen.

Also don’t forget Dundee Utd should be getting promoted so they aren’t going to be happy if it doesn’t happen.

[jacomo]

The longer Dundee continue to drag their feet on this issue the more and more likely it looks as though Hearts are going to get off the hook


No, Hearts aren’t off the hook. But the season will still be unresolved.

Another two weeks has of this and the clubs will agree. Sevco want the season declared null and void but will get very little support for that.

[Springbank]

The fact Dundee are 3rd top is delicious

It means any reconstruction is likely to be 3 up (and 1 down) to even up the numbers

One down (hmfc) to let 3 up (DFC, ICT, DUFC)

mon the Dee

[Heisenberg]

None of this is correct.

7 teams could expect to earn more money than now and smaller clubs would have LESS chance of relegation in the 14 team set up I've outlined above.

Right so your plan suits half the teams in the league. The smaller clubs in the Premiership will never vote for a plan which sees them miss out on cash and OF fixtures. So two of my points seem pretty accurate if as you say, lower clubs will earn less. With regards to relegation, how many are going down a season? Two and a playoff place?

[Onion]

You have to chuckle at the resistance Dundee have for the current Resolution because clubs will worse off. NEWS FLASH : All clubs are going to negatively impacted by the Covid pandemic. No clubs will be better off as a result of the early end of the season, and many are fighting for survival.

[Ozyhibby]

Seems loke there are a good few clubs looking like they want a 14 team top league with Raith Rovers now behind this as well. Looks like Hearts will be in the top league next season.

How many are in the top flight? It needs 11 in favour. So far only Hearts have indicated they want it. So still 10 to go.


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[Ozyhibby]

Not true - look again! In the 14 team league with split outlined above, teams finishing in the top half would surely earn MORE money than now due to finishing the season with more than double (12) the fixtures against the top half teams compared to now (5). It would also solve at a stroke the currently ridiculous fixture card whereby you don't know if your ST will bag you 18, 19 or 20 home fixtures - with a guaranteed even balance of home and away fixtures against all sides. Teams in the bottom half would probably earn less though - I'll give you that - but more breathing space against the threat of relegation might cushion that blow for some.

They would still have 4 fixture against the top teams so no change but the bottom half would have one less game be the top teams so a big loss for them.


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[04Sauzee]

The fact Dundee are 3rd top is delicious

It means any reconstruction is likely to be 3 up (and 1 down) to even up the numbers

One down (hmfc) to let 3 up (DFC, ICT, DUFC)

mon the Dee

Dundee could be thinking that with Hearts, Dundee Utd and ICT in the top division then it would give them a clear run at promotion the following season.

[Rumble de Thump]

There's the issue of the £160 million deal with Sky that would surely be scrapped if there's any kind of change the league competition. If it needs to be renegotiated Sky would likely be keen to make some savings, and that's if they would even be interested in a deal at all.

[Ozyhibby]

Not true - see above - any given season 7 of the top league would probably earn MORE than now.

Not true


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[GreenCastle]

Dundee could be thinking that with Hearts, Dundee Utd and ICT in the top division then it would give them a clear run at promotion the following season.

That’s what I reckon they are thinking.

[Springbank]

Dundee could be thinking that with Hearts, Dundee Utd and ICT in the top division then it would give them a clear run at promotion the following season.

I think any canny owner, with the strongest hand round the poker table, is saying give me guaranteed big bucks in 2020. Dont even think about the potential (maybe) to get them or not get them in 2021, depending on how the rookie gets on?

Not a chance.

They want hearts down & 3 up, pronto.

[green day]

In what way are Bonnyrigg a 'jambo' club? 🤔

In basically every way you could mention.

Its full of Jambos.

When we played them at Tynecastle, something like 10 of their starting 11 were Hearts fans (one was a Hibby, good plumber by the way), their manager is an ex Hearts player and Gary Locke is one of their own.
When Sportsound did a "Scottish Cup Special" from their social club, they might as well have been at the MHSC on Gorgie Road.

Apart from that, yes its a bit questionable...............

[tamig]

Seems like everyone "needs" to make a statement no matter how diddy.

Very Jambo club, so their statement can be ignored as well

Exactly. Ambassador Locke one of their “celebrity” fans I believe.

[04Sauzee]

I think any canny owner, with the strongest hand round the poker table, is saying give me guaranteed big bucks in 2020. Dont even think about the potential (maybe) to get them or not get them in 2021, depending on how the rookie gets on?

Not a chance.

They want hearts down & 3 up, pronto.

Here's hoping 😁

[green day]

Exactly. Ambassador Locke one of their “celebrity” fans I believe.

Indeed, and no doubt the mention of Hearts in the Bonnyrigg statement gave him a warm glow.

Pity that Bonnyrigg / Dundee / ICT or whatever other clubs can moan all they want about reconstruction to save Hearts, but unless the Premiership votes by at least 11-1 it aint happening.

Some of these people write the statements with crayons, I am sure.............

[mcohibs]

In basically every way you could mention.

Its full of Jambos.

When we played them at Tynecastle, something like 10 of their starting 11 were Hearts fans (one was a Hibby, good plumber by the way), their manager is an ex Hearts player and Gary Locke is one of their own.
When Sportsound did a "Scottish Cup Special" from their social club, they might as well have been at the MHSC on Gorgie Road.

Apart from that, yes its a bit questionable...............

Having lived there for 30 years I can assure you, Hibs have a huge following in Bonnyrigg and a large number who, like myself, support both teams.

I've been going to their games regularly for decades, the club is run by brilliant people, some who are hibbies, some jambos, similar to all the juniors/ lower league sides in Midlothian.

In their debut Lowland season, Bonnyrigg were 6 points behind Barry Ferguson's high spending Kelty Hearts, with a game in hand, still to play them and five of six remaining games at home. They have every right to feel aggrieved. To dismiss that as jambo-esque is so short minded.

[mcohibs]

Exactly. Ambassador Locke one of their “celebrity” fans I believe.

Actually, that would be our own Pat Stanton who played for both teams. But aye, Bonnyrigg are a jambo club because Gary Locke had a hoose there...

[Eyrie]

38 games with a top 7 split

So you would need 40 matchdays (each team has two bye weeks) as opposed to the current 38 which are crammed in as it is. That's another hurdle to overcome.

[MrSmith]

Having lived there for 30 years I can assure you, Hibs have a huge following in Bonnyrigg and a large number who, like myself, support both teams.

I've been going to their games regularly for decades, the club is run by brilliant people, some who are hibbies, some jambos, similar to all the juniors/ lower league sides in Midlothian.

In their debut Lowland season, Bonnyrigg were 6 points behind Barry Ferguson's high spending Kelty Hearts, with a game in hand, still to play them and five of six remaining games at home. They have every right to feel aggrieved. To dismiss that as jambo-esque is so short minded.

Hibbies?

[mcohibs]

Hibbies?

Yes, as in the plural of Hibby. Am I missing something?

[HFC93]

No chance we'll see an increased top league. Who's going to vote for it apart from Hearts?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-launch-internal-investigation-after-21867765?2

Spfl launch internal investigation.


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[NAE NOOKIE]

The big question is will SKY still want the deal with only two OF games ?

Jeezo mate. If this is an argument against league reconstruction in what universe would any reconstructed league not provide 4 OF games .. one of the two of them would have to finish 7th in a 14 or 16 team league.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If it goes to a vote for league reconstruction then it will win as pretty much every lower league team will take that.

My gut feeling is SFA will be pressured into a 14 team league next season, even if it’s for one season temporarily to steady the ship in a way. Resulting in Hearts worming their way out of it.

If it was to become 14 teams how many fixtures would each team likely play? Would there be a top 7 etc.

14 team league .... 6/8 split after the first home and away fixtures then top 6 and bottom 8 play each other home and away. Top 6 = 36 fixtures. Bottom 8 = 40 fixtures.

7/7 split wouldn't work IMO because one team would have to sit out the last day of the season in the top and bottom halves, which could lead to some underhanded goings on in the bottom 8 especially on the last day of the season. A lot of us still recall the final day of that season when we played the Huns at ER and could safely have headed to the boozer at half time knowing we weren't going to miss a goal in the 2nd half.

[Spike Mandela]

14 team league .... 6/8 split after the first home and away fixtures then top 6 and bottom 8 play each other home and away. Top 6 = 36 fixtures. Bottom 8 = 40 fixtures.

7/7 split wouldn't work IMO because one team would have to sit out the last day of the season in the top and bottom halves, which could lead to some underhanded goings on in the bottom 8 especially on the last day of the season. A lot of us still recall the final day of that season when we played the Huns at ER and could safely have headed to the boozer at half time knowing we weren't going to miss a goal in the 2nd half.

They both sound horrendous and none of them are better than the status quo. All this bloody effort to save Hearts....why?

[Ozyhibby]

They both sound horrendous and none of them are better than the status quo. All this bloody effort to save Hearts....why?

Exactly. There is no suggestion out there that is an improvement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NAE NOOKIE]

They both sound horrendous and none of them are better than the status quo. All this bloody effort to save Hearts....why?

Pretty sure you have responded to a couple of my posts Spike, so you know from my POV saving Hearts would be a side issue to something I've been in favour of well before this situation arose.

I'm still waiting to hear why giving more opportunity to clubs who need a boost right now and probably going forward is a bad thing by allowing more access to the bigger ( if spread a little more thinly ) money in the top league, a better chance to get to the top league and a better chance of returning to it if relegated. I fail to see how that can be a bad thing for Scottish football, if that is we want to keep the number of full time clubs we have just now and hopefully even increase their number.

The other thing is: Why is it so much of an effort? Somebody on this thread said its been reported that Doncaster earns over 300K a year, which I find unbelievable if it's true, but anyway, if we are paying folk that much to run one of Europe's smaller football set ups how is it so difficult for him and his colleagues to organise 14 teams into a league, its not exactly bloody rocket science, even if that does include negotiating a TV deal.

Here's how 14 is better than 12:

1) You have less chance of being relegated ... it's simple odds

2) Everybody will play the same home and away fixtures both pre and post split .. which is a hell of a lot better, not to mention fairer, than the dugs dinner we have just now.

3) Clubs in the championship will have less chance of being stuck there for years with a possible 3 promotion spots available.

4) It will enable us to do away with the current play off system which is ridiculously skewed in favour of the premiership clubs and also change the play off final to a far more exciting one off winner takes all game at a neutral venue. Something like Dunfermline v Dundee Utd or Ayr Utd v Kilmarnock at Easter Road could very well fill the place for such a game.

5) Clubs who make the top 6 will pretty well be guaranteed a far richer reward when you consider they will all be at home to the other 5 clubs ... 5 games against Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, and say Dundee Utd and Motherwell would see decent crowds .. especially against what at the moment could be only two home games with only one of them being against a 'big gun'

6) Its just more fun seeing how your club is getting on in a 14 team league than a 12 team one and IMO the bigger the league the less small time it looks.

7) Two more teams in the league means you will get to see 13 different clubs at ER during the season instead of just 11 and because the first 26 fixtures will be played home and away it could mean if you saw Aberdeen at ER on the first day it will be months until they turn up at ER again .. that scenario applies to any club we will have to play, making it feel a little less like we are seeing the same clubs all the time. It probably isn't a lot different than now in reality, but with two more teams as I say it may feel like it.

None of them better than the status quo ... not in my opinion mate :aok:

Edit ... As Ozyhibby has pointed out .. number 5 is nonsense, but I'll leave it there just to prove I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.raithrovers.net/43940/rrfc-board-statement-2.htm
Raith Rovers statement.

[Ozyhibby]

Pretty sure you have responded to a couple of my posts Spike, so you know from my POV saving Hearts would be a side issue to something I've been in favour of well before this situation arose.

I'm still waiting to hear why giving more opportunity to clubs who need a boost right now and probably going forward is a bad thing by allowing more access to the bigger ( if spread a little more thinly ) money in the top league, a better chance to get to the top league and a better chance of returning to it if relegated. I fail to see how that can be a bad thing for Scottish football, if that is we want to keep the number of full time clubs we have just now and hopefully even increase their number.

The other thing is: Why is it so much of an effort? Somebody on this thread said its been reported that Doncaster earns over 300K a year, which I find unbelievable if it's true, but anyway, if we are paying folk that much to run one of Europe's smaller football set ups how is it so difficult for him and his colleagues to organise 14 teams into a league, its not exactly bloody rocket science, even if that does include negotiating a TV deal.

Here's how 14 is better than 12:

1) You have less chance of being relegated ... it's simple odds

2) Everybody will play the same home and away fixtures both pre and post split .. which is a hell of a lot better, not to mention fairer, than the dugs dinner we have just now.

3) Clubs in the championship will have less chance of being stuck there for years with a possible 3 promotion spots available.

4) It will enable us to do away with the current play off system which is ridiculously skewed in favour of the premiership clubs and also change the play off final to a far more exciting one off winner takes all game at a neutral venue. Something like Dunfermline v Dundee Utd or Ayr Utd v Kilmarnock at Easter Road could very well fill the place for such a game.

5) Clubs who make the top 6 will pretty well be guaranteed a far richer reward when you consider they will all be at home to the other 5 clubs ... 5 games against Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, and say Dundee Utd and Motherwell would see decent crowds .. especially against what at the moment could be only two home games with only of them being against a 'big gun'

6) Its just more fun seeing how your club is getting on in a 14 team league than a 12 team one.

7) Two more teams in the league means you will get to see 13 different clubs at ER during the season instead of just 11 and because the first 26 fixtures will be played home and away it could mean if you saw Aberdeen at ER on the first day it will be months until they turn up at ER again, instead of a few weeks if you get them twice in the first round of fixtures before the split as happens now .. that scenario applies to any club we will have to play, making it feel a little less like we are seeing the same clubs all the time.

None of them better than the status quo ... not in my opinion mate :aok:

Point 5 makes no sense? If you make top 6 you play 4 games v Celtic. Exact same as the current system? What am I missing?


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[NAE NOOKIE]

Point 5 makes no sense? If you make top 6 you play 4 games v Celtic. Exact same as the current system? What am I missing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing ... didn't think that one through right enough, it is nearly 4am mate ... anyway, stop pissin' on ma chips :greengrin

Still think the rest holds up pretty well though :rolleyes:

[mjhibby]

The solution that was gloing to be approved by the most clubs is the one currently proposed. If it doesn't get the thumbs up nothing else will.

The 11-1 vote in the spl means there will be no reconstruction. Dundee are just being an irritation with their behaviour. They aren't going to get promoted so their stalling seems pointless. The fact that the Inverness chairman was previously at Dundee and Hertz says it all. These teams and sevco are in their own wee bubble but they will have to face reality soon enough. I'm sure the longer this stalemate goes on many teams will be letting Dundee know,in no uncertain terms to stop playing silly budgers.
I think nothing will happen till after uefas meeting and if Dundee haven't voted by them the spfl will vote again on a simple 75% majority. The TV companies I'm sure will have a big say on what happens. A total shambles. Wheys like us and all that.

[Wakeyhibee]

Pretty sure you have responded to a couple of my posts Spike, so you know from my POV saving Hearts would be a side issue to something I've been in favour of well before this situation arose.

I'm still waiting to hear why giving more opportunity to clubs who need a boost right now and probably going forward is a bad thing by allowing more access to the bigger ( if spread a little more thinly ) money in the top league, a better chance to get to the top league and a better chance of returning to it if relegated. I fail to see how that can be a bad thing for Scottish football, if that is we want to keep the number of full time clubs we have just now and hopefully even increase their number.

The other thing is: Why is it so much of an effort? Somebody on this thread said its been reported that Doncaster earns over 300K a year, which I find unbelievable if it's true, but anyway, if we are paying folk that much to run one of Europe's smaller football set ups how is it so difficult for him and his colleagues to organise 14 teams into a league, its not exactly bloody rocket science, even if that does include negotiating a TV deal.

Here's how 14 is better than 12:

1) You have less chance of being relegated ... it's simple odds

2) Everybody will play the same home and away fixtures both pre and post split .. which is a hell of a lot better, not to mention fairer, than the dugs dinner we have just now.

3) Clubs in the championship will have less chance of being stuck there for years with a possible 3 promotion spots available.

4) It will enable us to do away with the current play off system which is ridiculously skewed in favour of the premiership clubs and also change the play off final to a far more exciting one off winner takes all game at a neutral venue. Something like Dunfermline v Dundee Utd or Ayr Utd v Kilmarnock at Easter Road could very well fill the place for such a game.

5) Clubs who make the top 6 will pretty well be guaranteed a far richer reward when you consider they will all be at home to the other 5 clubs ... 5 games against Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, and say Dundee Utd and Motherwell would see decent crowds .. especially against what at the moment could be only two home games with only one of them being against a 'big gun'

6) Its just more fun seeing how your club is getting on in a 14 team league than a 12 team one and IMO the bigger the league the less small time it looks.

7) Two more teams in the league means you will get to see 13 different clubs at ER during the season instead of just 11 and because the first 26 fixtures will be played home and away it could mean if you saw Aberdeen at ER on the first day it will be months until they turn up at ER again .. that scenario applies to any club we will have to play, making it feel a little less like we are seeing the same clubs all the time. It probably isn't a lot different than now in reality, but with two more teams as I say it may feel like it.

None of them better than the status quo ... not in my opinion mate :aok:

Edit ... As Ozyhibby has pointed out .. number 5 is nonsense, but I'll leave it there just to prove I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong :greengrin

Point 5 does kinda make sense in that sometimes you dont get 1 of the OF at home a 2nd time. 1 home 3 away.

I agree there are a lot of positives, certainly for the all round good. However, coming 7th after 26 games excludes you from challenging for a Euro place 7 games earlier.

This maybe more applicable if the addition of another place is still in the offing season after next.

[Springbank]

I dont see how a 14 team league saves hearts AND promotes Dundee?

Dundee are currently 15th in the SPFL pyramid.

For reconstruction to be worth their while (ie up with the big boys & their neighbours united) then Dundee need 3 to go up, and Hearts need to go down.

[Joe6-2]

They both sound horrendous and none of them are better than the status quo. All this bloody effort to save Hearts....why?

I want to know the answer to that too!
I know a lot are in favour of reconstruction, but really, why now?
Using this virus as an excuse is despicable.
Get them down!

[Heisenberg]

I dont see how a 14 team league saves hearts AND promotes Dundee?

Dundee are currently 15th in the SPFL pyramid.

For reconstruction to be worth their while (ie up with the big boys & their neighbours united) then Dundee need 3 to go up, and Hearts need to go down.

I’m sure Ayr United wouldn’t be overly happy if that happened either, they’re only a point off Dundee and occupy the last playoff position.

To be honest I actually like the sound of some of these reconstruction plans as they’d bring a bit of freshness to everything. My issue is I don’t see them getting enough backing. I’m beginning to get a bit over the whole Hearts thing though, if they go down they’ll be back in a season. If they stay up it’ll be because reconstruction saved them, we get to laugh either way.

[jacomo]

Pretty sure you have responded to a couple of my posts Spike, so you know from my POV saving Hearts would be a side issue to something I've been in favour of well before this situation arose.

I'm still waiting to hear why giving more opportunity to clubs who need a boost right now and probably going forward is a bad thing by allowing more access to the bigger ( if spread a little more thinly ) money in the top league, a better chance to get to the top league and a better chance of returning to it if relegated. I fail to see how that can be a bad thing for Scottish football, if that is we want to keep the number of full time clubs we have just now and hopefully even increase their number.

The other thing is: Why is it so much of an effort? Somebody on this thread said its been reported that Doncaster earns over 300K a year, which I find unbelievable if it's true, but anyway, if we are paying folk that much to run one of Europe's smaller football set ups how is it so difficult for him and his colleagues to organise 14 teams into a league, its not exactly bloody rocket science, even if that does include negotiating a TV deal.

Here's how 14 is better than 12:

1) You have less chance of being relegated ... it's simple odds

2) Everybody will play the same home and away fixtures both pre and post split .. which is a hell of a lot better, not to mention fairer, than the dugs dinner we have just now.

3) Clubs in the championship will have less chance of being stuck there for years with a possible 3 promotion spots available.

4) It will enable us to do away with the current play off system which is ridiculously skewed in favour of the premiership clubs and also change the play off final to a far more exciting one off winner takes all game at a neutral venue. Something like Dunfermline v Dundee Utd or Ayr Utd v Kilmarnock at Easter Road could very well fill the place for such a game.

5) Clubs who make the top 6 will pretty well be guaranteed a far richer reward when you consider they will all be at home to the other 5 clubs ... 5 games against Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, and say Dundee Utd and Motherwell would see decent crowds .. especially against what at the moment could be only two home games with only one of them being against a 'big gun'

6) Its just more fun seeing how your club is getting on in a 14 team league than a 12 team one and IMO the bigger the league the less small time it looks.

7) Two more teams in the league means you will get to see 13 different clubs at ER during the season instead of just 11 and because the first 26 fixtures will be played home and away it could mean if you saw Aberdeen at ER on the first day it will be months until they turn up at ER again .. that scenario applies to any club we will have to play, making it feel a little less like we are seeing the same clubs all the time. It probably isn't a lot different than now in reality, but with two more teams as I say it may feel like it.

None of them better than the status quo ... not in my opinion mate :aok:

Edit ... As Ozyhibby has pointed out .. number 5 is nonsense, but I'll leave it there just to prove I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong :greengrin


I also think league reconstruction is needed, but it must be properly thought through.

Let’s discuss next season and implement for 21/22.

[jacomo]

No chance we'll see an increased top league. Who's going to vote for it apart from Hearts?


Definitely not Sevco - they’ve made that clear.

That might upset the hun love in.

[Iain G]

I have an idea:

16 team premier League, play each other once at home and once away. 2 down and 2 up each season.

2 x 12 team other divisions, 2 up and 2 down.

4 team division comprising Sevco, the Yams, Dundee and ICT. Games played via a WhatsApp group with no promotion or relegation. Team are under permanent lock down on a rusty old oil tanker floating somewhere between Shetland and the Faroe Islands. This will continue until the end of the world, or when Hearts complete their new stand, whichever happens first...

[brog]

It’s needs an 11-1 majority in the Premiership, unless they decide to alter that but I’m not sure they can.


http://www.raithrovers.net/43940/rrfc-board-statement-2.htm
Raith Rovers statement.

Very measured & sensible. That's Raith barred from the Statement Club!

[Not In The Know]

Point 5 does kinda make sense in that sometimes you dont get 1 of the OF at home a 2nd time. 1 home 3 away.

I agree there are a lot of positives, certainly for the all round good. However, coming 7th after 26 games excludes you from challenging for a Euro place 7 games earlier.

This maybe more applicable if the addition of another place is still in the offing season after next.

I quite like the sound of the 6/8 split. But as mentioned if the split is 7 games sooner (2 months with Scottish cup ties) and let’s say the coefficient stays strong and we get 4/5 decent euro spots. You could be 2/3 points of a euro spot in February sitting 7th and then be resigned to the b league for 3 months instead. Basically this is what would have happened to us this year. All to save hearts this year. **** them not to mention a reduction in tv money to accommodate 2 more teams / mouths to feed.

[Joe6-2]

Who are Dundee in ‘positive discussions’ with??

[Waxy]

We’ve played nearly all of the season.
It’s simply unfair on teams relegated in the past that these clubs use the C19 situation as a get out of jail free card.
All clubs are impacted financially.
You want reconstruction then talk about it sensibly over the next season or two.

[Since452]

Can't be arsed with all this reconstruction and split nonsense. The SPFL should have said all clubs vote with a majority of 51% of the total cast votes winning. Don't vote, miss your chance. League would have been over and money paid out.

[greenpaper55]

You can have as much reconstruction as you like but the fact is these games are many many months away from being played if not years !

There is a piece in todays Times by a top doctor regarding games in England being played and here is the gist of ot

"The likes of Mo Salah may have to get used to playing at empty groundsOSCAR DEL POZO/EPA






“The biggest thing that any of these plans depend on is getting person-to-person transmission down as low as possible, getting a very, very low number of new cases that are occurring; not just flattening the curve but crushing it.
“And any of these plans depend on being able to test, not only players but also coaches, officials, broadcast staff, medical staff.
“You have to be able to aggressively test these people. You need to be at a point where you are not endangering anyone else’s health by diverting either tests or the medical personnel that you need just to run a league.”
Binney agrees that diverting tests to footballers when there could be a greater need elsewhere “raises serious ethical questions”.
He also says a virus-free “biodome” represents “a really significant undertaking”. “It would involve identifying players, coaches, officials, broadcast staff, medical staff,” he said. “You would have to identify volunteers in all those groups to fully sequester themselves, including probably from their families, until the season is done. Before you even get those people into the system, it is a multiple-week process because what you would have to do is isolate them completely — astronauts returning from the moon levels of isolation, enforced by security if necessary.
“You would have to wait a week for them to potentially show signs of infection, you would want to test each and every one of them to make sure they are negative. Then you would want to wait another week to make sure they are still negative and then you would transport them into the quarantine system as sterilely as possible.
“Then, once you have only people who are confirmed virus-free in the system then it’s a matter of maintaining that system. It would be extremely expensive, extremely stressful for everyone involved.”
He says there is a trade-off, a “softer biodome” if cases of the virus had dropped significantly; if, as he says, the curve has been crushed.
But sport in front of packed stadiums? Binney thinks a vaccine needs to exist before that can happen and estimates that day is some 12 to 18 months away."

There will be no games soon by the looks of it.

[Brightside]

To change the league needs an 11:1 vote in favour. There would have to be some hefty brown envelopes sent for that to go through. I think a vote will be offered. But surely no chance it will happen.

[steviehibsleith]

They should agree to what Dundee are asking to secure the Yes vote and move on

Then say guess what just like you we have changed our minds and you are getting no reconstruction, no money friendliest or whatever else you asked for .. and thanks for stalling what 85% of the rest of Scottish football voted for

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Who are Dundee in ‘positive discussions’ with??

The voices in their heads

[Ozyhibby]

You can have as much reconstruction as you like but the fact is these games are many many months away from being played if not years !

There is a piece in todays Times by a top doctor regarding games in England being played and here is the gist of ot

"The likes of Mo Salah may have to get used to playing at empty groundsOSCAR DEL POZO/EPA






“The biggest thing that any of these plans depend on is getting person-to-person transmission down as low as possible, getting a very, very low number of new cases that are occurring; not just flattening the curve but crushing it.
“And any of these plans depend on being able to test, not only players but also coaches, officials, broadcast staff, medical staff.
“You have to be able to aggressively test these people. You need to be at a point where you are not endangering anyone else’s health by diverting either tests or the medical personnel that you need just to run a league.”
Binney agrees that diverting tests to footballers when there could be a greater need elsewhere “raises serious ethical questions”.
He also says a virus-free “biodome” represents “a really significant undertaking”. “It would involve identifying players, coaches, officials, broadcast staff, medical staff,” he said. “You would have to identify volunteers in all those groups to fully sequester themselves, including probably from their families, until the season is done. Before you even get those people into the system, it is a multiple-week process because what you would have to do is isolate them completely — astronauts returning from the moon levels of isolation, enforced by security if necessary.
“You would have to wait a week for them to potentially show signs of infection, you would want to test each and every one of them to make sure they are negative. Then you would want to wait another week to make sure they are still negative and then you would transport them into the quarantine system as sterilely as possible.
“Then, once you have only people who are confirmed virus-free in the system then it’s a matter of maintaining that system. It would be extremely expensive, extremely stressful for everyone involved.”
He says there is a trade-off, a “softer biodome” if cases of the virus had dropped significantly; if, as he says, the curve has been crushed.
But sport in front of packed stadiums? Binney thinks a vaccine needs to exist before that can happen and estimates that day is some 12 to 18 months away."

There will be no games soon by the looks of it.



Doctors would have us locked in our houses for 18 months. Economists would have us back at work tomorrow. That’s why they are not in charge.
At some point soon everyone has to get back to work or there will be no money to pay either.


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[Billy Whizz]

http://www.raithrovers.net/43940/rrfc-board-statement-2.htm
Raith Rovers statement.

Looks like another one pushing for reconstruction

[Michael]

To change the league needs an 11:1 vote in favour. There would have to be some hefty brown envelopes sent for that to go through. I think a vote will be offered. But surely no chance it will happen.

Yeah, this whole thing is a massive waste of time really.

[Brightside]

Looks like another one pushing for reconstruction

Does that matter? They wouldn’t even get to vote on a restructure.

[Billy Whizz]

Does that matter? They wouldn’t even get to vote on a restructure.

Although they want a 14 team Premiership, maybe they can get a bigger championship

[Spike Mandela]

Pretty sure you have responded to a couple of my posts Spike, so you know from my POV saving Hearts would be a side issue to something I've been in favour of well before this situation arose.

I'm still waiting to hear why giving more opportunity to clubs who need a boost right now and probably going forward is a bad thing by allowing more access to the bigger ( if spread a little more thinly ) money in the top league, a better chance to get to the top league and a better chance of returning to it if relegated. I fail to see how that can be a bad thing for Scottish football, if that is we want to keep the number of full time clubs we have just now and hopefully even increase their number.

The other thing is: Why is it so much of an effort? Somebody on this thread said its been reported that Doncaster earns over 300K a year, which I find unbelievable if it's true, but anyway, if we are paying folk that much to run one of Europe's smaller football set ups how is it so difficult for him and his colleagues to organise 14 teams into a league, its not exactly bloody rocket science, even if that does include negotiating a TV deal.

Here's how 14 is better than 12:

1) You have less chance of being relegated ... it's simple odds

2) Everybody will play the same home and away fixtures both pre and post split .. which is a hell of a lot better, not to mention fairer, than the dugs dinner we have just now.

3) Clubs in the championship will have less chance of being stuck there for years with a possible 3 promotion spots available.

4) It will enable us to do away with the current play off system which is ridiculously skewed in favour of the premiership clubs and also change the play off final to a far more exciting one off winner takes all game at a neutral venue. Something like Dunfermline v Dundee Utd or Ayr Utd v Kilmarnock at Easter Road could very well fill the place for such a game.

5) Clubs who make the top 6 will pretty well be guaranteed a far richer reward when you consider they will all be at home to the other 5 clubs ... 5 games against Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, and say Dundee Utd and Motherwell would see decent crowds .. especially against what at the moment could be only two home games with only one of them being against a 'big gun'

6) Its just more fun seeing how your club is getting on in a 14 team league than a 12 team one and IMO the bigger the league the less small time it looks.

7) Two more teams in the league means you will get to see 13 different clubs at ER during the season instead of just 11 and because the first 26 fixtures will be played home and away it could mean if you saw Aberdeen at ER on the first day it will be months until they turn up at ER again .. that scenario applies to any club we will have to play, making it feel a little less like we are seeing the same clubs all the time. It probably isn't a lot different than now in reality, but with two more teams as I say it may feel like it.

None of them better than the status quo ... not in my opinion mate :aok:

Edit ... As Ozyhibby has pointed out .. number 5 is nonsense, but I'll leave it there just to prove I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong :greengrin

Your intentions may be honourable Nooks and I applaud you for that but let’s not kid ourselves. Reconstruction is being mooted at this time not for the benefit of the game or for the laughable ‘sporting integrity’ but instead rushed through for the naked self interest of Hearts.

Your points responded to in bold....

) You have less chance of being relegated ... it's simple odds Wrong. Potentially 3 down from a 14 team league 21.4% chance, 2 from a 12 team league 16.6% chance

2) Everybody will play the same home and away fixtures both pre and post split .. which is a hell of a lot better, not to mention fairer, than the dugs dinner we have just now. A 10 team league or a 20 team league would work without a ridiculous split. Not being discussed at all

3) Clubs in the championship will have less chance of being stuck there for years with a possible 3 promotion spots available. Granted but I suspect what you will have is a number of yoyo clubs

4) It will enable us to do away with the current play off system which is ridiculously skewed in favour of the premiership clubs and also change the play off final to a far more exciting one off winner takes all game at a neutral venue. Something like Dunfermline v Dundee Utd or Ayr Utd v Kilmarnock at Easter Road could very well fill the place for such a game. You could change the current play off system and make it fairer with the current 12 team league

5) Clubs who make the top 6 will pretty well be guaranteed a far richer reward when you consider they will all be at home to the other 5 clubs ... 5 games against Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, and say Dundee Utd and Motherwell would see decent crowds .. especially against what at the moment could be only two home games with only one of them being against a 'big gun' Already debunked

6) Its just more fun seeing how your club is getting on in a 14 team league than a 12 team one and IMO the bigger the league the less small time it looks. Really don’t see what you are getting at here.

7) Two more teams in the league means you will get to see 13 different clubs at ER during the season instead of just 11 and because the first 26 fixtures will be played home and away it could mean if you saw Aberdeen at ER on the first day it will be months until they turn up at ER again .. that scenario applies to any club we will have to play, making it feel a little less like we are seeing the same clubs all the time. It probably isn't a lot different than now in reality, but with two more teams as I say it may feel like it. You’ve answered this one yourself.

[Ozyhibby]

Everyone says they want reconstruction but there is zero chance of getting it unless it brings in more money for top clubs. None of the proposals do. I don’t want to have to sell Martin Boyle to pay for a 14 team league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brightside]

I’d actually love 2 leagues of 20. Home and away. And that’s it. Easy. It won’t happen tho.

[Newry Hibs]

I've obviously missed something here - but 11:1? Wasn't that done away with when The Rangers dropped out?

[hibbyfraelibby]

I've obviously missed something here - but 11:1? Wasn't that done away with when The Rangers dropped out?

Yeah you missed something...but Aberdeen didn't

[Gloucester Hibs]

I've obviously missed something here - but 11:1? Wasn't that done away with when The Rangers dropped out?

Nope, we had the opportunity to do it but Aberdeen’s self-interest kicked in as they saw themselves as the new 2nd force in Scottish fitba, so they blocked it.

[Michael]

I've obviously missed something here - but 11:1? Wasn't that done away with when The Rangers dropped out?

Aberdeen and Celtic voted to retain it.

[Ozyhibby]

And thank goodness 11-1 exists now as it is saving us from these fanciful reconstruction ideas that would cost Hibs a lot of money.


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[Aldo]

Dundee just need to get bloody on with it. I know there is 20 odd days still to vote but they are now taking the proverbial.

If it does drag on I hope the SPFL take the decision out of their hands and just call it.


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[nonshinyfinish]

What were the proposed new voting rules? 10-2 to avoid the OF vetoing stuff? Or something else?

[Spike Mandela]

To change the league needs an 11:1 vote in favour. There would have to be some hefty brown envelopes sent for that to go through. I think a vote will be offered. But surely no chance it will happen.


Everyone says they want reconstruction but there is zero chance of getting it unless it brings in more money for top clubs. None of the proposals do. I don’t want to have to sell Martin Boyle to pay for a 14 team league.


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I’m not so sure. By the sounds of the club statements all mentioning reconstruction, even Hibs statement said it would be discussed, I see a direction of travel.

I don’t think anybody will get relegated this year if the leagues are called. With a media campaign( of mostly Hearts apologists) and the likelihood of a shortened season next season some form of reconstruction will be rushed through in a hashy fashion.

The premise for this will be ‘sporting integrity’ which is as laughable now as it was during the Rangers EBT scandal when it was routinely quoted at the same time as trying to shoehorn the new Rangers into the second tier. The naked self interest of this year’s underperforming clubs will be the real driver for this shambles.

[H18 SFR]

Dundee just need to get bloody on with it. I know there is 20 odd days still to vote but they are now taking the proverbial.

If it does drag on I hope the SPFL take the decision out of their hands and just call it.


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Might be wrong but with their statement yesterday etc, I genuinely believe that they’re totally loving this.

[Aldo]

Might be wrong but with their statement yesterday etc, I genuinely believe that they’re totally loving this.

Of course they are. As I said yesterday, wee power trip for them.

Might get a shock if it’s taken out of their hands though!


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[snedzuk]

No, Hearts aren’t off the hook. But the season will still be unresolved.

Another two weeks has of this and the clubs will agree. Sevco want the season declared null and void but will get very little support for that.

As time passes, its costing all clubs more money. Dundee had 28 days to respond to the vote which is now about 23. If they drag their heels then there will be more pressure from other clubs that have already voted yes for them to vote to release the funds. A clandestine twist is also possible as another club - ICT - could flip their vote as the rules allow and if their chat on the radio on Saturday is anything to go by (integrity blah blah), the same clubs that have already voted yes might well be canvassing them to change their minds as well - that way ICT can do a 'dundee' - to dundee.

[Caversham Green]

I've obviously missed something here - but 11:1? Wasn't that done away with when The Rangers dropped out?

As others have said the vote to change failed. However, I thought a proposal for reconstruction needed a full season's notice so that any reconstruction agreed now could only take effect from season 2021-22. I suppose that requirement could be waived but that would need the consent of all clubs eligible to vote.

Or am I missing something too?

[Billy Whizz]

Think there’s another SPFL board meeting at 5pm today, not expecting too much, after last nights non story from Dundee

[hibbyfraelibby]

As others have said the vote to change failed. However, I thought a proposal for reconstruction needed a full season's notice so that any reconstruction agreed now could only take effect from season 2021-22. I suppose that requirement could be waived but that would need the consent of all clubs eligible to vote.

Or am I missing something too?

The rules can be changed any time by the SPFL as a members organisation as long as the vote to change meets the threshold criteria.

[Aldoo]

I’m not so sure. By the sounds of the club statements all mentioning reconstruction, even Hibs statement said it would be discussed, I see a direction of travel.

I don’t think anybody will get relegated this year if the leagues are called. With a media campaign( of mostly Hearts apologists) and the likelihood of a shortened season next season some form of reconstruction will be rushed through in a hashy fashion.

The premise for this will be ‘sporting integrity’ which is as laughable now as it was during the Rangers EBT scandal when it was routinely quoted at the same time as trying to shoehorn the new Rangers into the second tier. The naked self interest of this year’s underperforming clubs will be the real driver for this shambles.


Agreed, regardless of the rules that plenty of people on here are quite rightly and intelligently pointing out exist, there is too much talk of reconstruction from the chairman/CEO’s of clubs for it not to be considered as something that will happen in some form, ultimately resulting in Hearts staying up. Prep yourselves for this and the fact that hearts won’t be as poor as this next season resulting in some inevitable bad derby days for us and the rage on here that they shouldn’t even be in this league. Karma doesn’t exist or skips over Hearts when it’s time to be dished I out.

[The Harp Awakes]

And thank goodness 11-1 exists now as it is saving us from these fanciful reconstruction ideas that would cost Hibs a lot of money.


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Although 11-1 is certainly an obstacle, I expect Dundee's proposal will be to push through a motion for a 1 season 14 team premier league, with a split 7/7. That would mean 3 OF games rather than 4. Celtic would vote against but Rangers may be persuaded by a 1 season reconstruction given they want to kill the current motion. Hearts have already proposed a temporary 14 team set up.

So Hearts would be saved and Dundee get an easier Championship next season.

The fly in the ointment is whether other Premiership sides would vote for it as it's not clear what's in it for them. Sky would also miss out on 1 OF game for 1 season so they would need to agree.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I also think league reconstruction is needed, but it must be properly thought through.

Let’s discuss next season and implement for 21/22.

Good point. Let’s not rush into anything - lots of ideas kicking about but no universal agreement.

Sometimes a quick decision’s a bad decision.

[Rumble de Thump]

Although 11-1 is certainly an obstacle, I expect Dundee's proposal will be to push through a motion for a 1 season 14 team premier league, with a split 7/7. That would mean 3 OF games rather than 4. Celtic would vote against but Rangers may be persuaded by a 1 season reconstruction given they want to kill the current motion. Hearts have already proposed a temporary 14 team set up.

So Hearts would be saved and Dundee get an easier Championship next season.

The fly in the ointment is whether other Premiership sides would vote for it as it's not clear what's in it for them. Sky would also miss out on 1 OF game for 1 season so they would need to agree.

Sevco aren't interested in reconstruction. They want the season voided so Celtic don't get the title.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Sevco aren't interested in reconstruction. They want the season voided so Celtic don't get the title.

:agree: that’s all they want. All their posturing about helping other clubs and unfair relegations is just a smokescreen to block anything other than null and void. That’s why they initially said they’d prefer to finish the season but not behind closed doors. And then went on to rip their pitch up.

[Ozyhibby]

Although 11-1 is certainly an obstacle, I expect Dundee's proposal will be to push through a motion for a 1 season 14 team premier league, with a split 7/7. That would mean 3 OF games rather than 4. Celtic would vote against but Rangers may be persuaded by a 1 season reconstruction given they want to kill the current motion. Hearts have already proposed a temporary 14 team set up.

So Hearts would be saved and Dundee get an easier Championship next season.

The fly in the ointment is whether other Premiership sides would vote for it as it's not clear what's in it for them. Sky would also miss out on 1 OF game for 1 season so they would need to agree.

What’s in it for the prem sides is less money. Who is going to vote for less money in this climate?


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[FilipinoHibs]

Dundee will be offered the sop of putting a motion on reconstruction, vote yes and motion defeated. Hearts relegated.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

I’d be up for reconstruction after this season is completed. The relegated team cannot come back up and places would be taken from the completed Championship. The number of teams promoted will be dictated by the number required in the reconstruction.

Likewise for the other divisions too.

[JimBHibees]

If it goes to a vote for league reconstruction then it will win as pretty much every lower league team will take that.

My gut feeling is SFA will be pressured into a 14 team league next season, even if it’s for one season temporarily to steady the ship in a way. Resulting in Hearts worming their way out of it.

If it was to become 14 teams how many fixtures would each team likely play? Would there be a top 7 etc.

League reconstruction only goes ahead if 11 out of 12 top league teams vote for it.

[Billy Whizz]

League reconstruction only goes ahead if 11 out of 12 top league teams vote for it.

What’s the script with lower league reconstruction

[Brightside]

I’m not so sure. By the sounds of the club statements all mentioning reconstruction, even Hibs statement said it would be discussed, I see a direction of travel.

I don’t think anybody will get relegated this year if the leagues are called. With a media campaign( of mostly Hearts apologists) and the likelihood of a shortened season next season some form of reconstruction will be rushed through in a hashy fashion.

The premise for this will be ‘sporting integrity’ which is as laughable now as it was during the Rangers EBT scandal when it was routinely quoted at the same time as trying to shoehorn the new Rangers into the second tier. The naked self interest of this year’s underperforming clubs will be the real driver for this shambles.

It’s a prem league vote only. Who in the prem league will vote for it. Remember 11 need to.

[GreenCastle]

The only solution I can see possibly being voted on is a compromise.

Finish season in current placings and play out next season as normal...all depends if that can actually happen..

But then say reconstruction for the season after - so Hearts, Dundee, ICT, Partick will be back where they think they belong and right down to lowland league teams they know they will be promoted at end of next season into new structure.

But 3 major points..

Government allowing football to happen.
11-1 vote
TV deal - 4 year deal right ?

[Not In The Know]

Whoever allowed this ridiculous position of Dundee having this much sway with a casting vote needs booted.

[Joe6-2]

League reconstruction only goes ahead if 11 out of 12 top league teams vote for it.

Anytime we, or other leagues have had reconstruction, it is never implemented right away, usually a season or two ahead.
Get herts down and move on

[Jim44]

Whoever allowed this ridiculous position of Dundee having this much sway with a casting vote needs booted.

How can they justify taking three weeks to make up their minds between two options? Whichever way they eventually vote, their behaviour is sheer bloody-mindedness.

[Aldo]

Incoming news apparently......that’s what Raman has tweeted???


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[puff the dragon]

Doctors would have us locked in our houses for 18 months. Economists would have us back at work tomorrow. That’s why they are not in charge.
At some point soon everyone has to get back to work or there will be no money to pay either.


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most sensible thing I’ve seen you post lad.

Football will be back in front of crowds in august. Too much scaremongering.

the virus won’t be gone but won’t be as Shan

[Heisenberg]

Incoming news apparently......that’s what Raman has tweeted???


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Nothing out yet. Guessing it’ll be another SPFL statement.

[Aldo]

Nothing out yet. Guessing it’ll be another SPFL statement.

Aw my neebor across from me at work mentioned it. If I hear I’ll post!


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[chippy]

The only solution I can see possibly being voted on is a compromise.

Finish season in current placings and play out next season as normal...all depends if that can actually happen..

But then say reconstruction for the season after - so Hearts, Dundee, ICT, Partick will be back where they think they belong and right down to lowland league teams they know they will be promoted at end of next season into new structure.

But 3 major points..

Government allowing football to happen.
11-1 vote
TV deal - 4 year deal right ?
Not too shabby a compromise but it would need to be a 16 team premier to satisfy all the relegated/ promotion hopefuls. Probably need 16,14,14.

[GreenCastle]

Not too shabby a compromise but it would need to be a 16 team premier to satisfy all the relegated/ promotion hopefuls. Probably need 16,14,14.

I’ve said for years I want a league where we only play each Old Firm x2 a season - home and away.

I’m with others and would want a minimum 16 team league. Or even 20 team league.

Money drives things..so can’t see it happening unless more sponsorship was brought it.

12 teams is about making it elite and a better product but fans get bored of x4 or x6 playing the same teams (cup games / replays).

Currently I feel they still have to relegate the wee huns. Anything else is farcical and would make a bigger mockery of our game.

[Ozyhibby]

I’ve said for years I want a league where we only play each Old Firm x2 a season - home and away.

I’m with others and would want a minimum 16 team league. Or even 20 team league.

Money drives things..so can’t see it happening unless more sponsorship was brought it.

12 teams is about making it elite and a better product but fans get bored of x4 or x6 playing the same teams (cup games / replays).

Currently I feel they still have to relegate the wee huns. Anything else is farcical and would make a bigger mockery of our game.

The only way I think you can make a 16/18/20 team league work is if it is a cross border league where stronger clubs join. Dunfermline won’t add a penny to TV and Commercial revenue but AIK or Anderlecht would.
12 is right number for the size of market we operate in. If we want a bigger league we need to expand the market a bit.


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[I'm_cabbaged]

https://twitter.com/stvraman/status/1250385275211087872

[Aldo]

https://twitter.com/stvraman/status/1250385275211087872

When you look at the comments I wonder what team those wanting the season null and void but the prize money support.

So no football until at least August. Season needs to finish now imho! SPFL need to tell, not ask Dundee what their vote is, no just take matters into their own hands, make the decision.

This is now about the survival of Scottish Clubs some of whom (smaller lower league teams, Ha Ha Hearts and Newco) won’t last until then

Start new season afresh.


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[Jones28]

League reconstruction only goes ahead if 11 out of 12 top league teams vote for it.

There isn’t a chance in hell of that happening.

[Aldo]

Dundee statement out..........they need more time apparently to think about best way forward!


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[Danderhall Hibs]

When you look at the comments I wonder what team those wanting the season null and void but the prize money support.

So no football until at least August. Season needs to finish now imho! SPFL need to tell, not ask Dundee what their vote is, no just take matters into their own hands, make the decision.

This is now about the survival of Scottish Clubs some of whom (smaller lower league teams, Ha Ha Hearts and Newco) won’t last until then

Start new season afresh.


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How can you give prize money when there are no prizes?:dunno:

[Peevemor]

Dundee statement out..........they need more time apparently to think about best way forward!


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Another one? Dearie me!

[Mon Dieu4]

Dundee statement out..........they need more time apparently to think about best way forward!


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Attention seeking self indulgent pish from Dundee now, everyone else has managed to vote one way or the other

[Bostonhibby]

Attention seeking self indulgent pish from Dundee now, everyone else has managed to vote one way or the otherYou've really got to hope Dundee don't find themselves in a position where they'd like the support of the majority of clubs to help them out in the future.

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[Jones28]

Dundee statement out..........they need more time apparently to think about best way forward!


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Just away and **** off, self important pricks.

[Heisenberg]

Copy of their statement

Good afternoon Dundee fans. I hope this statement continues to find you safe and healthy as we continue to be quarantined in our fight against the Covid-19 virus. The past week has been fraught with anxiety, vitriol, conspiracy theory, and of course a far ranging amount of media conjecture and commentary. Below is a brief enlightenment of our thoughts and processes over the past week.

Impact of the SPFL resolution: Relegated clubs were negatively impacted in two substantial ways: the lost opportunity to avoid relegation, and the lost opportunity for financial support. As we previously stated, the end of the season due to the COVID-19 epidemic should not result in any club being worse off than they were prior to vote. In our opinion the SPFL’s “solution” for the league was not a solution for all teams in the league. Knowing that most teams desperately needed cash flow before the end of April, the quickest and easiest way for the SPFL to achieve that was this proposal; however, the result was immediate inequity, and mid-to long-term instability. Understandably, that was the driving factor for a ‘yes’ vote from many clubs. Outside of clubs receiving an injection of immediate cash, this was unacceptable to us as we feel the actions of the league should be representative of all its members; detrimental impact to one club is ultimately detrimental to all clubs. Furthermore, the proposal left little prospect for league reconstruction, another significant aspect of long-term sustainability for Scottish Football. Whilst the lockdown has resulted in tremendous hardship for the country, one opportunity it has presented, in Dundee FC’s point of view, is the restructuring of the league.

Dundee FC’s vote: Because of the situation detailed above, it was our intention (as the world has seen through the disappointing and regrettable actions of two championship clubs) to vote ‘no’ on the proposed resolution. Despite being electronically submitted, for whatever reason, our vote did not reach the centre (SPFL.) We were not aware of that, however, until the SPFL published the ‘results’ of an incomplete vote and it was shown that Dundee FC’s vote was not received. This raised an immediate red flag for us; not only was our vote missing, but we discovered that at least two Premiership clubs had modified their position from the understanding we had the day prior. It was then that we decided to put our foot on the ball and pause. We conveyed that decision to the centre and ceased taking calls on the subject. We needed time to develop a clearer DFC view on the situation.

Whilst it is not our responsibility to take the lead on solutions for the league (indeed, we believe this is the role of the SPFL), it is our duty to attempt to ensure that the future of Scottish Football remains promising for all the clubs. To that end, we have worked tirelessly to achieve solutions to help those who were being disadvantaged and sought ways to help them. We have discussed options with a variety of member clubs to show solidarity to the clubs most negatively impacted by the SPFL proposal. Relegated clubs must have financial assistance to help soften the landing so they can begin the next season on more equitable footing. Through our discussions it appears that there is an appetite to provide various forms of support from other member clubs if these clubs are in fact relegated. Further details of these acts of kindness and solidarity will be worked out amongst the member clubs. Also, we are sorry to disappoint all of the conspiracy theorists by saying that we were never exposed to any ‘deals’ from either of the Glasgow giants. They both acted, as we would expect, with complete professionalism.

Additionally and most importantly for Dundee FC, we spoke to other member clubs regarding their appetite for reconstruction, as the SPFL’s briefing notes does not give us much of a chance and this is the only aspect of any proposal that helps Dundee FC in any way. There are several things that have to be in place in order to deliver a proper opportunity of achieving a better foundation for Scottish Football’s future. First, a working group should be assembled and must have members from the highest levels of Scottish Football with long-term interest in the future success of the game. We need to agree a set of goals that will be the basis of reconstruction which takes into account current and future wants and needs of media; member clubs’ financial benefits; and sporting integrity as a basis. It is our belief that after speaking to numerous clubs that the appetite for reconstruction is there and the intention is to set up an immediate and focused working group to take on this task. The centre will have to accept and support the will of the members.

We do believe the centre has made mistakes in this process, namely not taking into consideration any financial fallout to their member clubs and publishing of the incomplete ballot results, which has put Dundee FC in a position to receive criticism and undue torment. If what we achieved in our pause was presented by the SPFL in the first instance we would have voted in favour of the proposal.

We would like to thank the fans for their patience, and most of the member clubs for their cooperation and support during this time. Make no mistake, we continue to have a daunting task ahead of us, but we are encouraged by everyday acts of kindness, resolution, and humanity that we are all sharing as we get through this together. Stay safe and hope we see you soon in a newly revamped league.

[we are hibs]

Dundee can reference league reconstruction a million times and have "many calls of support" from other clubs but they arent gettting 11 clubs voting in favour in the top flight. Just vote yes or no and get on with it.

[G B Young]

Attention seeking self indulgent pish from Dundee now, everyone else has managed to vote one way or the other

Exactly. Narrow-minded, nonsensical and a mountain out of a molehill when set against what's going on around the world.

That guff at the end about 'acts of kindness' and 'getting through this together' really sticks in the craw when what they're trying to do is engineer a better position for themselves out of this.

[PatHead]

Did Anne Budge write that for them?

[nonshinyfinish]

Statement league dark horse.

[PatHead]

Statement league dark horse.

Definitely pushing for Europe.

[SquashedFrogg]

How can you give prize money when there are no prizes?:dunno:

The Rangers have stars above their badge representing titles they haven't won. So I guess issuing prize money for no prizes makes complete sense to some.

[Bostonhibby]

Statement league dark horse.Jackson, Banderson and Traynor are under real pressure in the Bellend of the decade contest in light of this impressive late challenge.

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[Aldo]

Attention seeking self indulgent pish from Dundee now, everyone else has managed to vote one way or the other

O yes. Let’s face it this is the most important thing they’ve done in 36 years..... apart from 2 admins.

They think they are smart but all they are now doing is alienating themselves and any proposal (s) they make will potentially fall on deaf ears.

This ego trip and latest pish will go on fur the next few weeks I bet!


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[Carheenlea]

Is this a new statement from Dundee or yesterday’s one?

They’re starting to make fools of themselves and boring everyone else to tears in the process.

[Peevemor]

"this is the only aspect of any proposal that helps Dundee FC in any way."

Absolute tossers. It's not about getting what's best for you.

Hibs voted for something that doesn't help us directly in any way at all.

[Rumble de Thump]

Dundee seem to be attempting to alter the proposal in the middle of the voting process (or right at the end). They want to base their vote on an altered proposal while every other club in Scotland has based their votes on the proposal that was put to them.

[SHODAN]

It's time for UEFA to take some responsibility and issue a blanket decree on what is happening this season.

[Heisenberg]

Dundee seem to be attempting to alter the proposal in the middle of the voting process (or right at the end). They want to base their vote on an altered proposal while every other club in Scotland has based their votes on the proposal that was put to them.

Exactly. Absolutely ridiculous. SPFL need to come out and tell them they are voting on the proposal put to them only. If they vote based on promises about reconstruction talks or different support packages for relegated teams then it’s surely got to go to a re-vote so all other teams can vote on the same basis.

[Michael]

Just fail the proposal - why give one club so much power?

[Green_one]

Evidence of serious drug use in Dundee. If that was indeed ever needed.

So we still have a position where there is total inactivity, no timescale and the tail wagging the dog.

I think more sensible teams like Hibs need to start stating some parameters e.g. we are not voting for 2020/21 reconstruction. Basically fire a warning shot across the bows of the alternative views others might be toying with.

[Scottie]

We are Hibernian FC we hate Jam Tarts and we hate Dundee

Never understood why we hated Dundee :confused:

With that statement they are giving the majority of clubs in Scotland a genuine reason to hate them now with the way they are carrying on.

[nonshinyfinish]

Is this a new statement from Dundee or yesterday’s one?

They’re starting to make fools of themselves and boring everyone else to tears in the process.

It's a new one and the self-importance is staggering.

[Box 17]

Dundee are revelling in this.

Maybe they could get an extra podium between Nicola and Jason Leitch at the daily Covid briefing and make their latest statement live on TV.

[silverhibee]

Attention seeking self indulgent pish from Dundee now, everyone else has managed to vote one way or the other

Holding out for the biggest bribe.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Your intentions may be honourable Nooks and I applaud you for that but let’s not kid ourselves. Reconstruction is being mooted at this time not for the benefit of the game or for the laughable ‘sporting integrity’ but instead rushed through for the naked self interest of Hearts.

Your points responded to in bold....

) You have less chance of being relegated ... it's simple odds Wrong. Potentially 3 down from a 14 team league 21.4% chance, 2 from a 12 team league 16.6% chance

2) Everybody will play the same home and away fixtures both pre and post split .. which is a hell of a lot better, not to mention fairer, than the dugs dinner we have just now. A 10 team league or a 20 team league would work without a ridiculous split. Not being discussed at all

3) Clubs in the championship will have less chance of being stuck there for years with a possible 3 promotion spots available. Granted but I suspect what you will have is a number of yoyo clubs

4) It will enable us to do away with the current play off system which is ridiculously skewed in favour of the premiership clubs and also change the play off final to a far more exciting one off winner takes all game at a neutral venue. Something like Dunfermline v Dundee Utd or Ayr Utd v Kilmarnock at Easter Road could very well fill the place for such a game. You could change the current play off system and make it fairer with the current 12 team league

5) Clubs who make the top 6 will pretty well be guaranteed a far richer reward when you consider they will all be at home to the other 5 clubs ... 5 games against Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, and say Dundee Utd and Motherwell would see decent crowds .. especially against what at the moment could be only two home games with only one of them being against a 'big gun' Already debunked

6) Its just more fun seeing how your club is getting on in a 14 team league than a 12 team one and IMO the bigger the league the less small time it looks. Really don’t see what you are getting at here.

7) Two more teams in the league means you will get to see 13 different clubs at ER during the season instead of just 11 and because the first 26 fixtures will be played home and away it could mean if you saw Aberdeen at ER on the first day it will be months until they turn up at ER again .. that scenario applies to any club we will have to play, making it feel a little less like we are seeing the same clubs all the time. It probably isn't a lot different than now in reality, but with two more teams as I say it may feel like it. You’ve answered this one yourself.

1 .... OK .. Percentages work on your side of the argument, but I still don't see how two down from a 12 team league compared to 3 down from a 14 team league means you have 'more' chance of being relegated ... the first leaves 10 teams behind, the second leaves 11 teams behind .. If a future dictator of Scotland wanted to shoot 3 people I would rather be one of 14 potential victims than 12.

2 .... In order to keep the league reasonably strong, but also maximise the number of clubs we can have in it, a split makes sense in order to give a reasonable amount of fixtures. IMO the split has never been a problem. What has made it ridiculous is the unequal way we play fixtures to decide the top 6 ... this way that is done away with at a stroke. We have tried a 10 team league and it ended up boring the tits off everybody and nobody seriously thinks a 20 team league is viable, especially on the TV revenue front, which like it or not will never be endangered by any club. At least not to the degree a 20 team league would.

3 .... I agree we probably would have a few yo yo clubs ... but better that than just being stuck in the championship for years, a POV I'm sure any Dunfermline or Partick Thistle fan would agree with.

4 .... Once again I don't disagree ... But that option has been available for years and never taken. League reconstruction would give the opportunity to look at every aspect of the game, including the play off system .. at the moment the premiership clubs are happy with it coz it favours them and they know going down could be a long term disaster. With more chance of bouncing straight back perhaps they could be persuaded to look at things again ... I would lay dollars to donuts that the championship would be all for it. ...... Once again its a fans v clubs debate, from my POV as a fan my idea for the play offs would be far more entertaining than the current one ... which I don't deny has still had its moments.

5 .... I've already conceded that point to Ozyhibby.

6 .... Its just my perception of it ... I don't expect everybody to agree.

7 .... This one is once again just about perception .... I simply think it would feel a bit more spaced out and as I said, 13 different clubs coming to ER wont just feel like more variety, it obviously will be more variety.

As for reconstruction being 'rushed through' .... My take on it is so what? ... history is stuffed with changes to 'aye been' or the status quo that were forced on people or organisations by exceptional circumstances that ended up with them saying, why didn't we do this ages ago?

Whatever happens at least my desire for reconstruction has been long held and though in this instance it would indeed benefit Hearts, at least I'm honest enough to not change my opinion because of that. It seems to me there's a lot of folk discussing this issue whose opinion on it would have been very different if Hearts weren't part of the equation. They may see that as reason enough .... I simply can't.