Fenlon has to go (post Malmo)

[Bobby's Cinema]

And why would you vote no?

I can't comprehend it. numbness, acceptance of the 'we'll support you evermore' loser mentality that seems to be sweeping through the club maybe.

Ive thought about it much today. I see no way back for Pat. He must go

[sidneyhibbie]

We cant keep sacking Managers CC Yogi and Mixu granted were hopeless put Paddy has taken us to 2 Finals improvement on the previous.

[EuanH78]

I agree with Sidney. Back to back cup finals not to be sniffed at. Club needs stability. Yesterday was horrible for us but, if pat fenlon does come back then that IMO shows a lot of character, exactly the kind of character I want to see in a hibs team going forward.

[HKhibby]

Just in from work and 24 hours after last night's complete humiliation I am absolutely stunned and astonished that Pat Fenlon and his coaching team remain in charge of our club's first team.

What does it say about those at the helm of our once famous and proud club that they somehow find that kind of result acceptable enough to take no action against those in charge of team affairs.

40 years of watching my team and I have never, ever witnessed anything like that. I mean we got beat 7-0 at home. SEVEN FFS.

You are absolutely right! It is a humiliating defeat...but if thats what it takes to get rid of the muppet in charge well so be it!

we can look at a couple of things also, the swedish league is half way through their season...so lots of game time etc.., and lastly the swedish league is way ahead of the spl...not quiet epl right enough but neverless way ahead of the spl!

as for fenlon, well he should have never been given the job in the first place, i said this a few times on here in the beginning...but as usual was shouted down by some, the guy is inept..clueless..with absolutely no game plan, and plays players out of position from what i can see.

only one consolation (if we stick with him...but probably not) is the gorgie administration mob will start with -15 points...just as well, because if we stick with this guy we could be facing relegation battle!

[calumb]

I agree with Sidney. Back to back cup finals not to be sniffed at. Club needs stability. Yesterday was horrible for us but, if pat fenlon does come back then that IMO shows a lot of character, exactly the kind of character I want to see in a hibs team going forward.

Exactly 2 cup finals one of which in case anyone forgot we were cheated out of and the second one we went in with Leigh injured against the best team in the country.

[marleyhib]

Agree strongly, just not good enough

The fact Fenlon hasn't resigned by now says a lot about him IMHO

[ozhibs]

Just in from work and 24 hours after last night's complete humiliation I am absolutely stunned and astonished that Pat Fenlon and his coaching team remain in charge of our club's first team.

What does it say about those at the helm of our once famous and proud club that they somehow find that kind of result acceptable enough to take no action against those in charge of team affairs.

40 years of watching my team and I have never, ever witnessed anything like that. I mean we got beat 7-0 at home. SEVEN FFS.

I have been check the internet regularly to see if Pat has resigned. Can't believe he is still in charge.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Grant Brebner - "@duellingbanjos: 16k at ER & the players produce that. They can't be interested in playing for PF. He ain't the man for Hibs the SCF to Hearts proved that."

[Chris.igoe]

Pat handed in his resignation this morning but Petrie would not adept it good source was told not to say any thing . But 8 pints down . The tash told him to go home and think about it.

[Pretty Boy]

Pat handed in his resignation this morning but Petrie would not adept it good source was told not to say any thing . But 8 pints down . The tash told him to go home and think about it.

Your source doesn't happen to have access to .net, the bounce, Facebook, Twitter, The Sun by any chance does he?

[Steve-O]

fenlon has not been a complete disaster- respect to him for steadying the ship when we were in freefall under cc...but time to move on.

He's the new Bobby Williamson!

Time for the new Tony Mowbray :agree:

[Steve-O]

We cant keep sacking Managers CC Yogi and Mixu granted were hopeless put Paddy has taken us to 2 Finals improvement on the previous.

Williamson took us to a cup final and embarrassed us too. Would you have had him stay on?

We can't keep sacking managers is not a valid reason to carry on as we are.

[Cabbage East]

You are absolutely right! It is a humiliating defeat...but if thats what it takes to get rid of the muppet in charge well so be it!

we can look at a couple of things also, the swedish league is half way through their season...so lots of game time etc.., and lastly the swedish league is way ahead of the spl...not quiet epl right enough but neverless way ahead of the spl!

as for fenlon, well he should have never been given the job in the first place, i said this a few times on here in the beginning...but as usual was shouted down by some, the guy is inept..clueless..with absolutely no game plan, and plays players out of position from what i can see.

only one consolation (if we stick with him...but probably not) is the gorgie administration mob will start with -15 points...just as well, because if we stick with this guy we could be facing relegation battle!

Jesus wept. Nah, it's not. At all. Not even slightly.

[Captain Trips]

We cant keep sacking Managers CC Yogi and Mixu granted were hopeless put Paddy has taken us to 2 Finals improvement on the previous.

PF cannot stay just because it would mean another sacking he should stay based on ability or go based on same for me got to go regardless of how many managers we have sacked.

The point is we cannot keep hiring managers we need to sack, the issues are not just with PF but beyond. The club were to slow with CC and if they keep PF then another poor season awaits I believe.

PF has to go along with whoever was involved in hiring him and CC as they have wasted tme and money.

[calumb]

PF cannot stay just because it would mean another sacking he should stay based on ability or go based on same for me got to go regardless of how many managers we have sacked.

The point is we cannot keep hiring managers we need to sack, the issues are not just with PF but beyond. The club were to slow with CC and if they keep PF then another poor season awaits I believe.

PF has to go along with whoever was involved in hiring him and CC as they have wasted tme and money.

By steadying the ship after the mess cc left, having a good finish to the league last season and getting us to 2 cup finals in a row surely PF has earned the right to at least have a go at the new season

[macca70]

Exactly 2 cup finals one of which in case anyone forgot we were cheated out of and the second one we went in with Leigh injured against the best team in the country.

The Cups are side events, all be it a nice distraction from the league.

It is our League campaigns that are the main event. How have we done in the league over the last 2 seasons under Fenlon?

[Allant1981]

The Cups are side events, all be it a nice distraction from the league.

It is our League campaigns that are the main event. How have we done in the league over the last 2 seasons under Fenlon?

granted the football wasnt great but we made steady progress

[Paloschi]

I think it is inevitable that Fenlon will eventually 'part company' or be sacked. Similar to the Mixu, Hughes and CC situation, we all knew it was going to happen and prolonging his reign will damage the club and halt our progress even more.

Also the fans have now turned on him. 70% want him gone (even with staunch Fenlon supporters that are out there).

He has to go. There is no way back for him. 1-5,0-3,0-7.

[macca70]

By steadying the ship after the mess cc left, having a good finish to the league last season and getting us to 2 cup finals in a row surely PF has earned the right to at least have a go at the new season

Good finish to last season!! We were in the bottom 6.

Who got us into the bottom 6?

[Chump]

You are absolutely right! It is a humiliating defeat...but if thats what it takes to get rid of the muppet in charge well so be it!

we can look at a couple of things also, the swedish league is half way through their season...so lots of game time etc.., and lastly the swedish league is way ahead of the spl...not quiet epl right enough but neverless way ahead of the spl!

as for fenlon, well he should have never been given the job in the first place, i said this a few times on here in the beginning...but as usual was shouted down by some, the guy is inept..clueless..with absolutely no game plan, and plays players out of position from what i can see.

only one consolation (if we stick with him...but probably not) is the gorgie administration mob will start with -15 points...just as well, because if we stick with this guy we could be facing relegation battle!

throw away statement.....and not a reason for Hibs shambolic display. Hearts went to a far superior team in a far superior league at the start of last season and got their tactics spot on and gained a result...........could you ever see such a result under PF's leadership?

reflect on the fact that Drogheda FC finished 7th in the Irish League and drew 0-0 at home with Malmo and tell me you still thinks it's a reason/excuse for Hibs!!

there should be no 'clutching at straws' reason why Hibs lost 7-0 - they, as a squad/team, aren't good enough, the manager (once again) got the tactics horribly wrong and he has no obvious ability to make positive changes upon his team when things are blatantly wrong

Malmo's ability to make a telling first time pass forward was there for everyone to see.....I cannot recall seeing a Hibs player do that for quite some time. Their talent in midfield seems to extend to two and three touch play that slows it down (and normally consists of going sideways). Penetration and general positivity in their play in the oppositions half is a serious problem at ER

[calumb]

Good finish to last season!! We were in the bottom 6.

Who got us into the bottom 6?

ok but last season was probably the best post split results we have ever had, normally we are lucky to win a game in the split

[Captain Trips]

By steadying the ship after the mess cc left, having a good finish to the league last season and getting us to 2 cup finals in a row surely PF has earned the right to at least have a go at the new season

He never steadied anything we were not bottom of league when he took over and stayed in danger of relegation for months afterward. He won 5 SPL matches that season that was not steadying that was continuing along and thankfully Dunfermline failed to pick up also. A good manager could IMO eased relegation sooner and pushed us up a table a bit more.

A good finish in league last season? Really? If he had pushed us upto 7th in his first half season then yes thst was good finish however in his first full season it isnt good enough. If PF left today he IMO would be leaving a bit of a mess as well not as bad as CC but not where it should be after nearly 2 years.

[macca70]

granted the football wasnt great but we made steady progress

I Don't think we made progress, we had 1 outstanding player who scored a ridiculous amount of goals.

The amount of times Griffiths scored or created something out of nothing was unbelievable.

We never played good football, didn't play well as a team but we had Leigh who was scoring goals for fun.

We're in big trouble now that Leigh is away.

[J-C]

By steadying the ship after the mess cc left, having a good finish to the league last season and getting us to 2 cup finals in a row surely PF has earned the right to at least have a go at the new season

His win % is only just better than CC and Mixu with Yogi's being better, and last season was a huge disappointment considering we were challenging for 2nd spot earlier in the campaign, even then we finished outside the top 6 with only the last 5 games being slightly better than normal, we went from 10th to 7th due to that.

Cup runs are great but we've bottled it twice big time now and when it seems to get tough the team disappear all to easily, whether that's just them or it comes from his management style. The fact is he has a poor record, dire style of football, tactical naivety and he bottles it on the very big occasions, I've game him my backing but after thursdays shambles enough is enough and he has to go.

[Chump]

By steadying the ship after the mess cc left, having a good finish to the league last season and getting us to 2 cup finals in a row surely PF has earned the right to at least have a go at the new season

2013 results - P17 W4 D8 L5......garbage given SPL standards


By steadying the ship after the mess cc left, having a good finish to the league last season and getting us to 2 cup finals in a row surely PF has earned the right to at least have a go at the new season

he has earned the right for next season by default - can't afford to sack him!!

[Golden Bear]

Frankly I find it unbelievable that almost one supporter in three still think that Fenlon has potential as a Manager therefore the Club should stick with him for now.

Distinct mediocrity (at best) has now become acceptable down ER way but I suppose that's what happens when a Club suffers a slump in form and it continues over a number of years.

I despair, I really do.

:boo hoo:

[Springbank]

Agree with the poster above who said the fact PF hasn't resigned says a lot about him

He came from the league of ireland and has just shown that 7th placed LoI Drogheda (who were in the tie for c170 minutes) are miles more competitive and less embarrassingly pub team than us

What a steady ship

[Pretty Boy]

Good finish to last season!! We were in the bottom 6.

Who got us into the bottom 6?

Exactly.

You know people are scraping the bottom of the barrell when they are using results in the bottom 6 on a list of acheivements.

Winning a few games in the bottom 6 in the bottom 6 isn't an acheivement.

Getting pumped in 2 finals isn't an acheivement.

Getting into Europe via the back door and then getting pumped 9-0 isn't an acheivement.

Finishing 7th in a league as poor as the SPL isn't an acheivement.

It's a real eye opener of how far we have fallen that anything I have listed is being used as a defence of Fenlon.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I Don't think we made progress, we had 1 outstanding player who scored a ridiculous amount of goals.

The amount of times Griffiths scored or created something out of nothing was unbelievable.

We never played good football, didn't play well as a team but we had Leigh who was scoring goals for fun.

We're in big trouble now that Leigh is away.That's nonsense m8 - we were going well up until just after xmas. We won 0-4 away to Motherwell, won away to St Mirren, Kilmarnock beat Dundee UTD, drew with Celticaway and beat them at home. Most of these were solid team performances.

[Treadstone]

Exactly.

You know people are scraping the bottom of the barrell when they are using results in the bottom 6 on a list of acheivements.

Winning a few games in the bottom 6 in the bottom 6 isn't an acheivement.

Getting pumped in 2 finals isn't an acheivement.

Getting into Europe via the back door and then getting pumped 9-0 isn't an acheivement.

Finishing 7th in a league as poor as the SPL isn't an acheivement.

It's a real eye opener of how far we have fallen that anything I have listed is being used as a defence of Fenlon.

:agree:
Never mind December to April, we won our last three meaningless games of the league season.
Aye okay then.:faf:

[Beefster]

:agree:
Never mind December to April, we won our last three meaningless games of the league season.
Aye okay then.:faf:

FFS, they weren't meaningless. 7th place was at stake. If we hadn't won all those games, we might have finished 8th which just isn't acceptable.

[Captain Trips]

That's nonsense m8 - we were going well up until just after xmas. We won 0-4 away to Motherwell, won away to St Mirren, Kilmarnock beat Dundee UTD, drew with Celticaway and beat them at home. Most of these were solid team performances.

Doing well up until xmas. The season as a whole continued for 5 months after xmas and we finished 7th regardless of runs before Xmas.

Your own post highlights why he isn't the man in "going well up until just after xmas". We need to be going well throughout. There was a 3/4 month period of I think 3 wins in about 20 matches.

[OrdHibby]

Frankly I find it unbelievable that almost one supporter in three still think that Fenlon has potential as a Manager therefore the Club should stick with him for now.

Distinct mediocrity (at best) has now become acceptable down ER way but I suppose that's what happens when a Club suffers a slump in form and it continues over a number of years.

I despair, I really do.

:boo hoo:

How many supporters have really voted. This poll is only a minority of the Hibs support. You'll find the real %age is more like 99% want rid of him and many will not be anywhere near the club till he has been emptied. Sad but thats reality. No doubt Petrie will take comfort n the 1 in 3 on this forum and make it fact.

[lobster]

A revolution is needed not simply a changing of the guard. Hibs have the opportunity to radically alter the ownership structure of the club and lead the way in scottish football.

[Zondervan]

Spiers on Saturday: something is rotten in the state of Leith
Published on 27 July 2013

Graham Spiers on Saturday


There are some results that fall into the straight "sackable offence" category in football – and Thursday night's at Easter Road in Edinburgh surely came very close to it.

Hibs' 0-7 reverse at home to Malmo of Sweden will never be forgotten in Scottish football. It was a debacle, a night of infamy for Pat Fenlon, a Hibs manager whose erratic time at Easter Road over the past 20 months has convinced precious few. Fenlon, surely, is on borrowed time in his job.

Scottish football hacks covering Thursday's game were left scurrying across the internet as the goals rained past Ben Williams to check whether this was the worst-ever night for a Scottish club in Europe.

And indeed it was. Our clubs, including Rangers and Celtic, have had some humiliations down the years, but this – 0-7 at home, 0-9 on aggregate – was as bad as it gets.

Rikard Norling, the Malmo coach, was both compassionate and absurd in his post-match summary. "We were lucky," Norling said, with words that just about beggared belief. It was humane of him not to crow, but no team can win 7-0, going on eight or nine, and put it down to luck.

I don't believe for a minute that these grisly 90 minutes at Easter Road told us anything new about Scottish football – few can have any illusions about the decline that has set in over the years. But what the rout did tell us – yet again – is that there is something weak and brittle and susceptible about Hibs under their Irish manager.

Fenlon's Hibs teams seem incapable of stout defending. They appear prone to collapse, to disintegration. Everyone has been citing the two most glaring cases – the 5-1 defeat to Hearts in the 2012 Scottish Cup final and now this Malmo indignity – but even last season's Scottish Cup semi-final against Falkirk was a case in point.

Fenlon's team were 3-0 down after 45 minutes against Steven Pressley's First Division youngsters. Over those opening 45 minutes Hibs had been torn apart – again – and were only saved by Falkirk running out of legs in the second half.

What is it about this manager? Does he lack presence or conviction in the dressing room? Does he flatter to deceive? Is he incapable of imparting any verbal delivery to his players which might result in his team having even a hint of backbone?

Fenlon's track-record must make all of us pause for a moment. Prior to arriving at Hibs his cv as a coach looked highly decent. He had won five League of Ireland titles, plus numerous cups, between 2003 and 2009 with Shelbourne and Bohemians. He was one of the hottest properties to emerge in years from that country.

None of this can be merely dismissed. Irish football is to Scotland what Scottish football is to the England – i.e. grossly inferior – but you can only work in your own environment and prove your worth. Fenlon, whatever his other quirks and shortcomings, had certainly done that.

At Hibs, however, he has often looked out of his depth. Yesterday I spoke to a number of Hibs fans, all with a knowing eye for the game, and a recurring theme emerged about the plodding, old-fashioned football which they see their team playing under Fenlon.

The gist, though, remains this: something is badly wrong when a manager and a team go to pieces in the way that Hibs did on Thursday night.

That is one aspect of this current Hibs humiliation. The second aspect to be considered is more deep-rooted within the club. It comes back to the old question about owner Sir Tom Farmer and chairman Rod Petrie and their stewardship of this Scottish football institution.

Farmer, for me, can hardly be held up for blame. He is not a football man but, seeing the plight of Hibs in Leith many years ago, opted to step in and save the club when few others were able to. Farmer is a philanthropist, if you will, though others might view him as an absentee landlord.

That gap between club and owner probably isn't healthy for Hibs. Then you factor in Petrie, Farmer's place-man at the club, and the debate heats up. To anyone but close family and friends, Petrie is distant, cold and inscrutable, an impossible man to fathom.

He has also now presided over, barring one or two exceptions, a remarkable list of doomed Hibs managers, stirring up even more suspicion among the Leith faithful that he has no football instinct or judgement at all.

In all of this, and going against the modern fad for supporter ownership and the like, what Hibs seem to lack is an old-fashioned heavyweight chairman, a man whose hands-on, ego-steeped ambition might permeate throughout the club.

Simon Pia, a well-known political figure in Edinburgh, and renowned Hibs fan, told me yesterday: "I've said it for a long time now – there is something weak and paltry right at the heart of Hibs. It has been this way for years. The club is managed along cold business lines but, in terms of football, it has a very soft mentality.

"Hibs have been pushovers for years. You can debate someone like Pat Fenlon all you like but there is a much deeper malaise at Easter Road. The ambition within the club, I think, has long been pretty limited."

Poor Fenlon kept his press duties to a minimum the other night, stopping off just long enough to say he was "embarrassed" by the Malmo defeat before fleeing. This Irishman now faces hoops of fire in the weeks ahead.

Ironically, a 7-0 result, cherished and ritualised by Hibs fans for over 40 years, has now been tarnished. No longer can this scoreline be flaunted and crowed about in the Edinburgh pubs and clubs.

Hapless Hibs have turned the joke back on themselves.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Doing well up until xmas. The season as a whole continued for 5 months after xmas and we finished 7th regardless of runs before Xmas.

Your own post highlights why he isn't the man in "going well up until just after xmas". We need to be going well throughout. There was a 3/4 month period of I think 3 wins in about 20 matches.I totally agree but I was responding to the opinion that we never played well as a team in 2012 and all our good fortune was just down to Griffiths!

[Treadstone]

That's nonsense m8 - we were going well up until just after xmas. We won 0-4 away to Motherwell, won away to St Mirren, Kilmarnock beat Dundee UTD, drew with Celticaway and beat them at home. Most of these were solid team performances.


I totally agree but I was responding to the opinion that we never played well as a team in 2012 and all our good fortune was just down to Griffiths!

To be fair though in the 6 matches you have quoted Leigh scored 8 goals.:wink:

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

To be fair though in the 6 matches you have quoted Leigh scored 8 goals.:wink:Take it all back - Fenlon out!

:fenlon

[Onion]

The problem I have with Pat Fenlon now is complete lack of trust and confidence. Destroyed 3-0 by Falkirk after 30 mins and 7-0 (going on 10) to Malmo at home in front of a packed ER proves to me that THIS team - under HIS management - are capable of ANYTHING.

To those who think we should give him more time... how about us going to Tynecastle and losing 5, 6 or 7 to a hungry, determined Yams side which has much to prove. I seriously think this team under Fenlon's management is more than capable of this.

Sadly, despite his likeable nature and the challenges he has faced up to at ER, he simply HAS TO GO NOW. And I expect Hibs to announce his departure Monday. The only remaining question is... what next ?

[Captain Trips]

Human nature would likely nean that Pat will look in here and see what is being said I am going to assume he will have a look.

Pat I have been possibly been one of your biggest critics on here probably from January 2012 onwards, I have never though got personal just discussed ability.

You have given 100 % no doubt but it simply isnt good enough . You have been here long enough and Thursday should not have happened. There have been a few highlights but in the main it hasn't been good enough and unfortunately we have 2 results now that will remain with us for all the wrong reasons.

As much as I try your reign up until now these 2 results push away the few you got right it is with that
I for one would like somebody else to have a go.

Sorry Pat but I just do not believe in you and I am not alone.

[H18Y GW]

Exactly.

You know people are scraping the bottom of the barrell when they are using results in the bottom 6 on a list of acheivements.

Winning a few games in the bottom 6 in the bottom 6 isn't an acheivement.

Getting pumped in 2 finals isn't an acheivement.

Getting into Europe via the back door and then getting pumped 9-0 isn't an acheivement.

Finishing 7th in a league as poor as the SPL isn't an acheivement.

It's a real eye opener of how far we have fallen that anything I have listed is being used as a defence of Fenlon.


Totally agree withall of the above but wondered does no one in the back room staff even have his ear a bit,i know Jimmy Nicholl is just in the door but he is an experienced man and after the debacle of last weekwith Stevenson and Mcpake, with Williams keeping us from a 5 or 6 goal thrashing in Sweden,you would think he would have said something or maybe he did, ive always thought of Fenlon as aloof and maybe a touch pig headed and stubborn who may have decided to ignore it .


Doesnt excuse a woeful performance but may display the players mindset towards the managers decisions.


Dont like him, never will if im honest.

[The Leith Dutch]

Malmo's ability to make a telling first time pass forward was there for everyone to see.....I cannot recall seeing a Hibs player do that for quite some time. Their talent in midfield seems to extend to two and three touch play that slows it down (and normally consists of going sideways). Penetration and general positivity in their play in the oppositions half is a serious problem at ER

Completely agree.

We did see this kind of play early in the season when Paul Cairney was on form - Griffiths piledriver into the top corner to end the slick one touch passing move from our own half against Dundee Utd springs to mind.

Without blowing flowers up the backsides of the current midfield I think the sideways passing is a reflection of the lack of quality attacking players ahead of them, the poor movement and the tactical set up of the team.

We've signed some good quality holding midfielders but as soon as Cairney went off the boil we were seriously lacking anything up front - no pace, no movement, nobody to hold up the ball.

I lack confidence in Fenlon's ability to find good attacking options and set the team up to use them.

I'd put money on the fact that he bought Collins (who I think could be a good signing) with the intention of lumping the ball up to him which is going to be absolute murder next season.

[Hermit Crab]

We cant keep sacking Managers CC Yogi and Mixu granted were hopeless put Paddy has taken us to 2 Finals improvement on the previous.

Of which did we bother to turn up to?

[J-C]

We cant keep sacking Managers CC Yogi and Mixu granted were hopeless put Paddy has taken us to 2 Finals improvement on the previous.

Don't forget the wonderful 35% win rate, that's a real head turner that is. :rolleyes:

[Sanger]

Don't forget the wonderful 35% win rate, that's a real head turner that is. :rolleyes:
Out of his depth in this League and football style is awful. Time to appointment someone with experience who wants their teams to play on the deck.

[Salisbury Hibby]

I think we've got no choice but to stick with him for the start of the season, but if he doesn't learn from this and persist in fielding what seems like the weakest defence in the league then he's history I'm afraid. His career at Hibs depends on the performance against Motherwell.

[davieh]

I think we've got no choice but to stick with him for the start of the season, but if he doesn't learn from this and persist in fielding what seems like the weakest defence in the league then he's history I'm afraid. His career at Hibs depends on the performance against Motherwell.

Why wait til Motherwell? We've lost our last three competitive matches - all crucial ones - 12 - 0.

Time is of the essence, with the season yet to start and the transfer window still open for a month - get someone new in asap.

[Salisbury Hibby]

I wouldn't be surprised if the recruitment process has kicked off already, but a replacement by the Motherwell game. No. Anyway, who knows a bit of pressure on the team to perform may be a good thing - they might even respond to it. I live in hope.

[Since90+2]

I cant we are still debating this. Fenlon just overseen the worst result in the clubs history , utter humiliation and a new record low for Scotland in Europe.

I liked Fenlon originally but sorry IMO he has to go.

[TornadoHibby]

Spiers on Saturday: something is rotten in the state of Leith
Published on 27 July 2013

Graham Spiers on Saturday


There are some results that fall into the straight "sackable offence" category in football – and Thursday night's at Easter Road in Edinburgh surely came very close to it.

Hibs' 0-7 reverse at home to Malmo of Sweden will never be forgotten in Scottish football. It was a debacle, a night of infamy for Pat Fenlon, a Hibs manager whose erratic time at Easter Road over the past 20 months has convinced precious few. Fenlon, surely, is on borrowed time in his job.

Scottish football hacks covering Thursday's game were left scurrying across the internet as the goals rained past Ben Williams to check whether this was the worst-ever night for a Scottish club in Europe.

And indeed it was. Our clubs, including Rangers and Celtic, have had some humiliations down the years, but this – 0-7 at home, 0-9 on aggregate – was as bad as it gets.

Rikard Norling, the Malmo coach, was both compassionate and absurd in his post-match summary. "We were lucky," Norling said, with words that just about beggared belief. It was humane of him not to crow, but no team can win 7-0, going on eight or nine, and put it down to luck.

I don't believe for a minute that these grisly 90 minutes at Easter Road told us anything new about Scottish football – few can have any illusions about the decline that has set in over the years. But what the rout did tell us – yet again – is that there is something weak and brittle and susceptible about Hibs under their Irish manager.

Fenlon's Hibs teams seem incapable of stout defending. They appear prone to collapse, to disintegration. Everyone has been citing the two most glaring cases – the 5-1 defeat to Hearts in the 2012 Scottish Cup final and now this Malmo indignity – but even last season's Scottish Cup semi-final against Falkirk was a case in point.

Fenlon's team were 3-0 down after 45 minutes against Steven Pressley's First Division youngsters. Over those opening 45 minutes Hibs had been torn apart – again – and were only saved by Falkirk running out of legs in the second half.

What is it about this manager? Does he lack presence or conviction in the dressing room? Does he flatter to deceive? Is he incapable of imparting any verbal delivery to his players which might result in his team having even a hint of backbone?

Fenlon's track-record must make all of us pause for a moment. Prior to arriving at Hibs his cv as a coach looked highly decent. He had won five League of Ireland titles, plus numerous cups, between 2003 and 2009 with Shelbourne and Bohemians. He was one of the hottest properties to emerge in years from that country.

None of this can be merely dismissed. Irish football is to Scotland what Scottish football is to the England – i.e. grossly inferior – but you can only work in your own environment and prove your worth. Fenlon, whatever his other quirks and shortcomings, had certainly done that.

At Hibs, however, he has often looked out of his depth. Yesterday I spoke to a number of Hibs fans, all with a knowing eye for the game, and a recurring theme emerged about the plodding, old-fashioned football which they see their team playing under Fenlon.

The gist, though, remains this: something is badly wrong when a manager and a team go to pieces in the way that Hibs did on Thursday night.

That is one aspect of this current Hibs humiliation. The second aspect to be considered is more deep-rooted within the club. It comes back to the old question about owner Sir Tom Farmer and chairman Rod Petrie and their stewardship of this Scottish football institution.

Farmer, for me, can hardly be held up for blame. He is not a football man but, seeing the plight of Hibs in Leith many years ago, opted to step in and save the club when few others were able to. Farmer is a philanthropist, if you will, though others might view him as an absentee landlord.

That gap between club and owner probably isn't healthy for Hibs. Then you factor in Petrie, Farmer's place-man at the club, and the debate heats up. To anyone but close family and friends, Petrie is distant, cold and inscrutable, an impossible man to fathom.

He has also now presided over, barring one or two exceptions, a remarkable list of doomed Hibs managers, stirring up even more suspicion among the Leith faithful that he has no football instinct or judgement at all.

In all of this, and going against the modern fad for supporter ownership and the like, what Hibs seem to lack is an old-fashioned heavyweight chairman, a man whose hands-on, ego-steeped ambition might permeate throughout the club.

Simon Pia, a well-known political figure in Edinburgh, and renowned Hibs fan, told me yesterday: "I've said it for a long time now – there is something weak and paltry right at the heart of Hibs. It has been this way for years. The club is managed along cold business lines but, in terms of football, it has a very soft mentality.

"Hibs have been pushovers for years. You can debate someone like Pat Fenlon all you like but there is a much deeper malaise at Easter Road. The ambition within the club, I think, has long been pretty limited."

Poor Fenlon kept his press duties to a minimum the other night, stopping off just long enough to say he was "embarrassed" by the Malmo defeat before fleeing. This Irishman now faces hoops of fire in the weeks ahead.

Ironically, a 7-0 result, cherished and ritualised by Hibs fans for over 40 years, has now been tarnished. No longer can this scoreline be flaunted and crowed about in the Edinburgh pubs and clubs.

Hapless Hibs have turned the joke back on themselves.

Unfortunately, much food for thought there! :agree:

[Teapot]

I defended Fenlon on here after the game on thursday. I talked myself into thinking he could still turn it around.

But after thinking things over yesterday I think his time here may be up. Its his inability to motivate and set out a team capable of winning the big games which is the deciding factor for me, I include the semi final in that as well.

I really want Fenlon to succeed but sadly i can't see it. I would personally give him two more games to save his job but in the meanwhile I would hope Petrie might be sounding out a new manager for us.

[greenlex]

How many supporters have really voted. This poll is only a minority of the Hibs support. You'll find the real %age is more like 99% want rid of him and many will not be anywhere near the club till he has been emptied. Sad but thats reality. No doubt Petrie will take comfort n the 1 in 3 on this forum and make it fact.

Your opinion is based on what exactly?

[DH1875]

We cant keep sacking Managers CC Yogi and Mixu granted were hopeless put Paddy has taken us to 2 Finals improvement on the previous.


Would go back to the days of Mixu or Yogi ahead of this kite any day of the week.

[calumb]

Would go back to the days of Mixu or Yogi ahead of this kite any day of the week.

Oh aye great days indeed. the 6-6 at motherwell didnae make us a laughing stock or who could forget the 2 brilliant draws in a week against the old firm at the tail end of mixus reign where we did not even bother trying to get out of our own half at home. aye you have wonder where did it all go wrong

[K-Zazu]

Heard today that he has just bought a house in Dalkeith , maybe this is why he hasn't chucked after Thursdays shocker

[Treadstone]

Oh aye great days indeed. the 6-6 at motherwell didnae make us a laughing stock or who could forget the 2 brilliant draws in a week against the old firm at the tail end of mixus reign where we did not even bother trying to get out of our own half at home. aye you have wonder where did it all go wrong

Fenlons outlook on fitba make Yogi and Mixu look like Pep Guardiola. Did ye see we got pumped 7-0 on Thursday ?

[calumb]

Fenlons outlook on fitba make Yogi and Mixu look like Pep Guardiola. Did ye see we got pumped 7-0 on Thursday ?

Yip and i am not for one minute saying Fenlons the answer. I am totally baffled by all the centre mids he has signed, i cant believe he has done nothing to strengthen the defence except sign a yam youth team player. I am lost to explain the tatics employed on thursday and the positions some of the players took up, although i always knew we would play Craig out of position at left mid as soon as we signed him.

But i felt that after the first half against Falkirk Pat loosened up a bit and allowed the team more freedom to play with the result that the league season finished a lot better than it normally does. Ok the cup final was poor but i think we were beaten before the game started as Leigh was obviously struggling but that said if Doyles chance goes in who knows what might have happened same in the yam final if Kujabi stays on and no penalty is given it was still game on.

To me the yam final and the Falkirk game shows that Fenlon can see when things are going wrong and is not afraid to change things as Claros and Robertson were both hooked in the first half which is brave for any manager to do, he did not let his ego get in the way and persist with the same old which certainly appeared to happen in Yogis days.

I always knew that we were never going to be ready for europe especially when we did not manage to sign Griffiths and though i never expected us to get beaten as badly as we did i still feel Fenlon at least deserves the chance to start the season.

[West hamBERNIAN]

Think a lot of people might have voted on this in the heat of the moment. I think he'll stay and I think we will go on to have a good season. They were a top team from a competitive league already well into there season. We are still trying to get players for a lot of positions signed or integrated in to the team. Obviously it doesn't help playing players out of position, what's the alternative? I think also it would be criminal in our position to pay off another manager. We spend more on managers than players.

[Treadstone]

To me the yam final and the Falkirk game shows that Fenlon can see when things are going wrong and is not afraid to change things as Claros and Robertson were both hooked in the first half which is brave for any manager to do, he did not let his ego get in the way and persist with the same old which certainly appeared to happen in Yogis days.


The yam final had Fenlon operating a diamond midfield system that had hardly been used, patently obvious it wasn't working.

He took off Robertson when we were 3-0 down.

[green day]

Think a lot of people might have voted on this in the heat of the moment. I think he'll stay and I think we will go on to have a good season. They were a top team from a competitive league already well into there season. We are still trying to get players for a lot of positions signed or integrated in to the team. Obviously it doesn't help playing players out of position, what's the alternative? I think also it would be criminal in our position to pay off another manager. We spend more on managers than players.

Heat of the moment? Was that the 1-5 rimming moment, the 3 goals to Falkirk and only spawned our way out moment, or the 0-7 Malmo moment?

You are so wrong, he had his chance, he had it again, he got a flipping doggies chance and he now must go - as for money? We might have to spend same as Inverness or St Johnstone for a year or two - its not the budget at hibs, its the useless, tactically inept manager that can't bring in the bargains these aforementioned clubs CAN.

[calumb]

The yam final had Fenlon operating a diamond midfield system that had hardly been used, patently obvious it wasn't working.

He took off Robertson when we were 3-0 down.

Yip the system wasn't working so he changed it and for the last 10 minutes of the half we competed, ok you could argue that he should have known exactly how the yams were going to play and set out his stall to stop them but it was a cup final and he maybe tried to set the team up with 2 up front to take the game to them, but went it obviously wasn't happening that way he was strong enough to change it.

As for Robertson we were 3-0 down so quickly but he still made the change

[mcfly]

Heard today that he has just bought a house in Dalkeith , maybe this is why he hasn't chucked after Thursdays shocker


Be very surprised if this were true. He has less than a yr left in his contract. Has no chance of getting it extended.

Get Alex Mcleish in now

[DH1875]

Oh aye great days indeed. the 6-6 at motherwell didnae make us a laughing stock or who could forget the 2 brilliant draws in a week against the old firm at the tail end of mixus reign where we did not even bother trying to get out of our own half at home. aye you have wonder where did it all go wrong


Aye because getting humiliated 7-0 at home is great ain't it :rolleyes:. I can take defeat, no worries, but not for the first time we have been severely embarrassed under Fenlon. As for Yogi, at least the football was watchable and if you think the 6-6 game is on a par with Thursday, :bitchy:.

[Onion]

I think we've got no choice but to stick with him for the start of the season, but if he doesn't learn from this and persist in fielding what seems like the weakest defence in the league then he's history I'm afraid. His career at Hibs depends on the performance against Motherwell.

Of course we have a choice, the season hasn't started an there are still a few weeks left in the transfer window. If Petrie decides to keep Fenlon - to see how it goes - this is going to be another Calderwood fiasco. We'll end up sacking him a few games into the season having picked up few points, probably suffered further humiliation and the season will be another write off.

The only person who might want to keep him is Petrie, cos he appointed him and knows that he'll have to find more money to replace some of the duds we still have at ER. However, this time, IMHO the quality of squad we have is decent - we just need a proper manager who can motivate, inspire, coach and organise them into a cohesive unit with self belief and a will to win. Hibs will still be an attractive prospect for many managers but Petrie needs someone who can CHALLENGE HIM and start changing the loser, slacker, weak-mided culture we have at the club.

[heid the baw]

I have thought it over since Thursday and still feel we need to see how a fully fit and available squad does in the start of the season. With no Huns and a weakened Hearts, it is an opportunity to kick on and do something in the league for once, but on the strength of Thursday I cannot see it.

Whilst I still reluctantly back Fenlon, this is based mainly on the Calderwood factor. That is probably not a good enough reason. He was not who I wanted at the time of Calderwoods departure. Even in 2010 when Calderwood was appointed, the best man was shockingly overlooked IMO. On both occasions Michael O'Neil was clearly the man for the job.



He was easily available
Very good track record with Brechin, which is no mean feat to play attractive football with no budget.
improved a lot at Shamrock Rovers, won a title and a lot of plaudits for his style of management and the way the team played
Family based in Edinburgh
ex Hibs player


Petrie has a woeful record for picking the right manager and this is obvious when you look at what little of note Mixu, Yogi and Calderwood have gone on to do after Hibs. Why he failed to appoint O'Neill on 2 occassions is beyond me.

[calumb]

Aye because getting humiliated 7-0 at home is great ain't it :rolleyes:. I can take defeat, no worries, but not for the first time we have been severely embarrassed under Fenlon. As for Yogi, at least the football was watchable and if you think the 6-6 game is on a par with Thursday, :bitchy:.

I agree its probably one of the biggest humiliations the club has had but the 6-6 game was laughed at around the world too, i was in spain at the time and it appeared as the laughing bit at the end of some sports news program.

We were cheated out of the yam final if thats the other time you were severely embarrassed.

Yogi was good to watch for about the first 4 months after that it was clueless drivel and mixu was not called by many on here as mixup for no reason

[greenlex]

I have thought it over since Thursday and still feel we need to see how a fully fit and available squad does in the start of the season. With no Huns and a weakened Hearts, it is an opportunity to kick on and do something in the league for once, but on the strength of Thursday I cannot see it.

Whilst I still reluctantly back Fenlon, this is based mainly on the Calderwood factor. That is probably not a good enough reason. He was not who I wanted at the time of Calderwoods departure. Even in 2010 when Calderwood was appointed, the best man was shockingly overlooked IMO. On both occasions Michael O'Neil was clearly the man for the job.



He was easily available
Very good track record with Brechin, which is no mean feat to play attractive football with no budget.
improved a lot at Shamrock Rovers, won a title and a lot of plaudits for his style of management and the way the team played
Family based in Edinburgh
ex Hibs player


Petrie has a woeful record for picking the right manager and this is obvious when you look at what little of note Mixu, Yogi and Calderwood have gone on to do after Hibs. Why he failed to appoint O'Neill on 2 occassions is beyond me.
After the failures of former players in the role the feeling was we needed to get away from former players.

[steakbake]

After the failures of former players in the role the feeling was we needed to get away from former players.

The former player fixation is very limiting. Our horizons should be global: Europe, Aus, mainland Europe.

[Coco Bryce]

Heard today that he has just bought a house in Dalkeith , maybe this is why he hasn't chucked after Thursdays shocker

No he hasn't.

[greenlex]

Heard today that he has just bought a house in Dalkeith , maybe this is why he hasn't chucked after Thursdays shocker
If thats true he should be sacked for picking Dalkeith.

[lord bunberry]

Heat of the moment? Was that the 1-5 rimming moment, the 3 goals to Falkirk and only spawned our way out moment, or the 0-7 Malmo moment?

You are so wrong, he had his chance, he had it again, he got a flipping doggies chance and he now must go - as for money? We might have to spend same as Inverness or St Johnstone for a year or two - its not the budget at hibs, its the useless, tactically inept manager that can't bring in the bargains these aforementioned clubs CAN.

I wish people would stop using the Falkirk game as an example of fenlon being not up to the job, it's a game we won after a poor start. There's plenty examples of bad management by fenlon, the falkirk game isn't one of them.

[heid the baw]

The former player fixation is very limiting. Our horizons should be global: Europe, Aus, mainland Europe.

O'Neill had something like 9 clubs in the 8 years after Hibs. Also spent longer as a player at Dundee Utd before Hibs. Whilst he is an ex-player, he also had a proven track record as a manager. The fact that he was Edinburgh based and an ex player were definately on the plus side for me. Brechin had a win rate of 40% under him. No easy feat and they played nice stuff too.

He's also a bright, articulate guy and not afraid to speak his mind. Maybe that is why he was overlooked.

[steakbake]

Falkirk game: sorry but as had been seen in countless games, Falkirk sliced through us like a knife through butter.

[greenlex]

O'Neill had something like 9 clubs in the 8 years after Hibs. Also spent longer as a player at Dundee Utd before Hibs. Whilst he is an ex-player, he also had a proven track record as a manager. The fact that he was Edinburgh based and an ex player were definately on the plus side for me. Brechin had a win rate of 40% under him. No easy feat and they played nice stuff too.

He's also a bright, articulate guy and not afraid to speak his mind. Maybe that is why he was overlooked.

You could almost put Mixu in there instead of O'Neill. That didnt work.

[Zorro]

I wish people would stop using the Falkirk game as an example of fenlon being not up to the job, it's a game we won after a poor start. There's plenty examples of bad management by fenlon, the falkirk game isn't one of them.

Afraid I have to disagree, it was one of them IMO. We were tactically clueless against their team taking us on and running at us, second to every ball in that first half. The second half was amazing stuff, yes, and a great comeback. If that was down to Fenlon's half time team talk then he obviously has some ability. And for once he recognised we were getting ripped and changed things around. But also we had a great performance from the team - Claros, Harris & Griffiths in particular from memory. But we should never have been in the situation we were at half time v Falkirk. I said to my brother on Thursday night that I wondered if that was Fenlon's "Duffy moment".

I really wanted Fenlon to succeed - I accept we need stability at the club after a merry-go-round of bad managers (or manager's doing badly at ER if the malaise does run deeper). But I am honestly struggling to see how he recovers from Thursday's shambles and humiliation. I am angrier about it now than I was post match to be honest. We were a disgrace. I'm not being a "bed wetter", I just think that it is one of a series of terrible results under his tenure. FWIW I don't think we will sack him, at least until the start of the season and we see how the first few games play out.

Yes, Scottish football is no great shakes and there's such a long way to go to make up the ground we lost in the last 40 years to a club like Malmo - maybe the landscape has changed irreversibly in football, but there's still ways to make Scottish football better. But to me this is about Hibs, the club we all love. What is wrong at ER? How can it be fixed?

I am hurting more about Thursday that I was about the 2 cup finals. The gap between the two sides was huge, and I just don't know how we can bridge it. With the cup finals at least I could rationalise the defeats in some way that I am not finding possible about Thursday.

[SteveHFC]

If thats true he should be sacked for picking Dalkeith.

What's wrong with Dalkeith like :cb

[K.Marx]

Worries me that Fenlon hasn't walked or been sacked but not surprised I'm afraid. The change has to happen now. If not, I expect a few ok results which will paper over the cracks before our next humiliation in a big game, no doubt a derby or cup match. I genuinely believe we now have the makings of a decent squad, but it won't achieve anything with Fenlon in charge.

[Pat 0-7]

Of course we have a choice, the season hasn't started an there are still a few weeks left in the transfer window. If Petrie decides to keep Fenlon - to see how it goes - this is going to be another Calderwood fiasco. We'll end up sacking him a few games into the season having picked up few points, probably suffered further humiliation and the season will be another write off.

The only person who might want to keep him is Petrie, cos he appointed him and knows that he'll have to find more money to replace some of the duds we still have at ER. However, this time, IMHO the quality of squad we have is decent - we just need a proper manager who can motivate, inspire, coach and organise them into a cohesive unit with self belief and a will to win. Hibs will still be an attractive prospect for many managers but Petrie needs someone who can CHALLENGE HIM and start changing the loser, slacker, weak-mided culture we have at the club.

:top marks

Does any one think that Fenlon can come back from this? Not me I'm afraid. Go now and give the new guy time in the transfer market.

[lord bunberry]

Afraid I have to disagree, it was one of them IMO. We were tactically clueless against their team taking us on and running at us, second to every ball in that first half. The second half was amazing stuff, yes, and a great comeback. If that was down to Fenlon's half time team talk then he obviously has some ability. And for once he recognised we were getting ripped and changed things around. But also we had a great performance from the team - Claros, Harris & Griffiths in particular from memory. But we should never have been in the situation we were at half time v Falkirk. I said to my brother on Thursday night that I wondered if that was Fenlon's "Duffy moment".

I really wanted Fenlon to succeed - I accept we need stability at the club after a merry-go-round of bad managers (or manager's doing badly at ER if the malaise does run deeper). But I am honestly struggling to see how he recovers from Thursday's shambles and humiliation. I am angrier about it now than I was post match to be honest. We were a disgrace. I'm not being a "bed wetter", I just think that it is one of a series of terrible results under his tenure. FWIW I don't think we will sack him, at least until the start of the season and we see how the first few games play out.

Yes, Scottish football is no great shakes and there's such a long way to go to make up the ground we lost in the last 40 years to a club like Malmo - maybe the landscape has changed irreversibly in football, but there's still ways to make Scottish football better. But to me this is about Hibs, the club we all love. What is wrong at ER? How can it be fixed?

I am hurting more about Thursday that I was about the 2 cup finals. The gap between the two sides was huge, and I just don't know how we can bridge it. With the cup finals at least I could rationalise the defeats in some way that I am not finding possible about Thursday.

If he is at fault for the first half against falkirk then he has to be given the credit for the comeback in the second half. Fenlon has made many mistakes but I don't think you can say the falkirk game was one of them. By the time that game had finished we could have scored six or seven.

[YehButNoBut]

:top marks

Does any one think that Fenlon can come back from this? Not me I'm afraid. Go now and give the new guy time in the transfer market.

No chance, if he does stay for the moment, and shouldn't be given the chance IMO, it's just going to take one poor performance for the crowd to be on his back, he's been mortally wounded and it would be better for the club and PF himself for him to go now.

Also give a month of the transfer window for the new manager to get in his own players.

[blackpoolhibs]

Worries me that Fenlon hasn't walked or been sacked but not surprised I'm afraid. The change has to happen now. If not, I expect a few ok results which will paper over the cracks before our next humiliation in a big game, no doubt a derby or cup match. I genuinely believe we now have the makings of a decent squad, but it won't achieve anything with Fenlon in charge.

:agree: We have a history of keeping useless managers, because they get one result at a crucial time, it makes folk think the tide has turned.

When in reality its not, and we just have to suffer more crap until he eventually does go.

[Coco Bryce]

There is no way back for Pat now. A couple of bad results and the fans will start on him. Nice guy, crap manager unfortunately.

[Expecting Rain]

We need to do a bit of spending now, the gate at Easter Road proved if anything that the fans can turn out.Hopefully we will be talking about a few more decent signings rather than the manager next week.

[silverhibee]

Fighter jet flying over the Capital, take a hint Pat.

[Zorro]

If he is at fault for the first half against falkirk then he has to be given the credit for the comeback in the second half. Fenlon has made many mistakes but I don't think you can say the falkirk game was one of them. By the time that game had finished we could have scored six or seven.

I did give him credit - I said that for once he recognised things were going and made changes, but it was also down to good team and individual performances in the second half. But to turn your point around, if you give him credit for the second half you have to look at where the fault lay for the first half performance. Our tactics were all wrong - and that was Fenlon's doing. So I do count that as one of his many mistakes.

I have no axe to grind with Fenlon - we all know how terrible we were after the disaster that was Coco. But looking at it in an unemotional, performance centred way, what we are seeing is not cutting it. I hope we go on and win our first few games, and that we move on, but I will not forget Thursday night, and it will always be for me the lasting memory of Fenlon's tenure, however long that lasts.

(Barring getting to a 3rd SCF and winning it ;) - just don't see it though unfortunately)

[lucky]

PF will not walk. This is his biggest job he is likely to get. If he turns it around then he's a hero but if he resigns he will never work outside Ireland in football. He's got nothing to lose by staying.

[silverhibee]

PF will not walk. This is his biggest job he is likely to get. If he turns it around then he's a hero but if he resigns he will never work outside Ireland in football. He's got nothing to lose by staying.

Then Petrie needs to do the right thing and sack him then.

[Jones28]

He won't be sacked. Nor will he walk. He only has a year left on his current deal, this will not be renewed and instead it will run down. Hopefully we will be tapping up a manager in the mean time so they are ready to come in and take over at the end of the season. This team is nowhere near relegation/play off places. In fact I fully expect us to compete at the top end of the league this season, despite Thursdays result.

[Emerald]

He won't be sacked. Nor will he walk. He only has a year left on his current deal, this will not be renewed and instead it will run down. Hopefully we will be tapping up a manager in the mean time so they are ready to come in and take over at the end of the season. This team is nowhere near relegation/play off places. In fact I fully expect us to compete at the top end of the league this season, despite Thursdays result.

He has to go one way or another. He has lost the support and every game would be a time bomb waiting to go off. If he is allowed to stay it will be THE biggest mistake the Hibs board have ever made and boy there have been a few. :agree:

[lord bunberry]

I did give him credit - I said that for once he recognised things were going and made changes, but it was also down to good team and individual performances in the second half. But to turn your point around, if you give him credit for the second half you have to look at where the fault lay for the first half performance. Our tactics were all wrong - and that was Fenlon's doing. So I do count that as one of his many mistakes.

I have no axe to grind with Fenlon - we all know how terrible we were after the disaster that was Coco. But looking at it in an unemotional, performance centred way, what we are seeing is not cutting it. I hope we go on and win our first few games, and that we move on, but I will not forget Thursday night, and it will always be for me the lasting memory of Fenlon's tenure, however long that lasts.

(Barring getting to a 3rd SCF and winning it ;) - just don't see it though unfortunately)
I just think that you have to look at that game as a whole. We went to hampden played poorly in the first half and great in the second half and eventually progressed to the final. Overall that game goes down as a success in my opinion.

[Hibby Bairn]

Is he still there? Scandalous.

[chrisski33]

Apparently he has to win the derby and if doesnt he will be gone! Tbh he should be gone now!

[Emerald]

Apparently he has to win the derby and if doesnt he will be gone! Tbh he should be gone now!

So if he wins the derby he will be a great manager then or a great race horse depending on what derby we're on about :greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

I just think that you have to look at that game as a whole. We went to hampden played poorly in the first half and great in the second half and eventually progressed to the final. Overall that game goes down as a success in my opinion.

What has Fenlon learned from that game?

His hand was forced into playing a system he is obviously uncomfortablr with in that 2nd half. Lo and behold though it worked and we looked quite good.

A good manager might have seen that as an opportunity to adapt his approach on a longer term basis. With Fenlon if what I have seen against Dumbarton, Raith and Malmo x 2 then he's gone back to sane old, same old. I'd almost tolerate the industrial football if we were scraping results but we are not, Fenlon has had 2 years to work out a plan and style of football and he hasn't. Pish to watch and not getting results either. Not good enough.

[Onion]

If he is at fault for the first half against falkirk then he has to be given the credit for the comeback in the second half. Fenlon has made many mistakes but I don't think you can say the falkirk game was one of them. By the time that game had finished we could have scored six or seven.

Had they not missed a sitter to make it 4, that game would have been over and Fenlon would have been sacked. The first 45 mins so bad it was scary. We were all so thrilled by the recovery, we've never really ask how we achieved it. IMHO Fenlon's last hand to play was to go with 2/3 upfront, hope to get a goal and hope that Falkirk tired - which is exactly how it panned out. Against better opposition that would not have worked.

From time to time all managers need a bit of luck. In Fenlon's case that day, he knew he was gone and threw his normal cautious nature to the wind - as he had nothing to lose at that point. Sadly, I don't think it was Fenlon's tactical genius or inspiration that won that game - it was born out of necessity.

Finally, if Fenlon is the right man for Hibs, then it is reasonable to think that other SPL clubs will be looking to appoint him if he gets the bullet. Does anyone seriously think another SPL club would hire him ? Of course not. Which begs the question... why is he then good enough for Hibs ?

[Zorro]

I just think that you have to look at that game as a whole. We went to hampden played poorly in the first half and great in the second half and eventually progressed to the final. Overall that game goes down as a success in my opinion.

Fair enough LB - it was a success in that it was a great comeback and gave us one of the few happy memories of recent times watching Hibs. I suppose that overall I just feel that debating that one game as a success or failure might be akin to discussing the tuning on Nero's fiddle while ignoring the rather dramatic increase in air temperature and intense flickery flamy things that seem to be surrounding us! :wink:

[Leith Hibee]

For the past few days I have been thinking about how bad I could possibly perform at work and avoid the sack.

Pat Fenlon (and also his team) were supposed to be putting in a huge effort to make this game a fitting send off for a Hibs legend who had passed away. I'm sure if I went into work and failed to muster anything productive whilst embarrassing my boss and co-workers in the process I may well be out of a job the following day!

Why is it that a normal guy can be dropped by a company for not producing results, yet a man who has humiliated everyone associated with the club cannot be removed without paying him a fortune to do so??

Should a managers contract not be a more performance based contract?? I mean is it impossible to add a clause saying should we get beat say 4-0 or more at home then he must walk away if we want him to without the right to compensation??

When I think of it, I couldnt embarrass myself as much as he did at work had I :
Turned up at 11am with a ragin hangover stinking of billy ocean!
Called the secretary a gantin old trout on my way up the stairs!
Stole my co-workers piece at lunch!
in the kettle just before afternoon break!
Surfed p0rn at my desktop for the rest of the afternoon!
.......,

[Greendub]

Football is not real life, it is a fantasy world

[IberianHibernian]

For the past few days I have been thinking about how bad I could possibly perform at work and avoid the sack.

Pat Fenlon (and also his team) were supposed to be putting in a huge effort to make this game a fitting send off for a Hibs legend who had passed away. I'm sure if I went into work and failed to muster anything productive whilst embarrassing my boss and co-workers in the process I may well be out of a job the following day!

Why is it that a normal guy can be dropped by a company for not producing results, yet a man who has humiliated everyone associated with the club cannot be removed without paying him a fortune to do so??

Should a managers contract not be a more performance based contract?? I mean is it impossible to add a clause saying should we get beat say 4-0 or more at home then he must walk away if we want him to without the right to compensation??

When I think of it, I couldnt embarrass myself as much as he did at work had I :
Turned up at 11am with a ragin hangover stinking of billy ocean!
Called the secretary a gantin old trout on my way up the stairs!
Stole my co-workers piece at lunch!
in the kettle just before afternoon break!
Surfed p0rn at my desktop for the rest of the afternoon!
.......,Maybe manager will lose his job very soon . Can`t sack 14 players so that`s out of the question . Maybe manager feels more humiliated than anyone - think he`s not hurting ?

[Mr White]

If we want attacking, entertaining football, adding the pressure of clauses such as you describe to the managers contract is not the way to go about it imo. Makes me wonder if Alex miller was under such a threat though...

[hibeesjoe]

If I read right this morning on twitter and Fenlon spends 4 days in Ireland a week what the **** is that about. Disgrace if true.

[cabbageandribs1875]

when the cat's away...the mice will play

[jeffers]

If I read right this morning on twitter and Fenlon spends 4 days in Ireland a week what the **** is that about. Disgrace if true.

He doesn't.

[weonlywon6-2]

As much as i like fenlon i think his days are numbered. We havent moved forward as club with him in charge.
We need terry butcher or derek adams in charge as they have performed miracles at their clubs
More than anything i want a team that is willing to fight

[IberianHibernian]

If I read right this morning on twitter and Fenlon spends 4 days in Ireland a week what the **** is that about. Disgrace if true.Obviously not true . More like 4 days since he arrived at Hibs . Would actually like him to spend more time in Ireland - was hoping we`d get some good signings from Ireland through his contacts there ( and I`m sure club thought the same when he was appointed ) but Doyle has been only player for first team signed from Irish club since Pat arrived .

[Greendub]

Granted for the first team, but we have picked up two of the brightest youngsters in irish football in McCaffery and Mullhall.

Pat must still keep an eye on clubs back in his homeland, but maybe he hasnt seen anyone who would benefit the first team and has opted to go for player's he knows who play in the main leagues in the uk

[West hamBERNIAN]

Heat of the moment? Was that the 1-5 rimming moment, the 3 goals to Falkirk and only spawned our way out moment, or the 0-7 Malmo moment?

You are so wrong, he had his chance, he had it again, he got a flipping doggies chance and he now must go - as for money? We might have to spend same as Inverness or St Johnstone for a year or two - its not the budget at hibs, its the useless, tactically inept manager that can't bring in the bargains these aforementioned clubs CAN.

Okay, I realize some of the results have been horrific and worse some might say the all round play has been dreadful. i know you will highlight this and say point made, sack him, clever. who do we bring in? pep, jose? no, the options will include the likes of the esteemed kenny sheils, #dickhead. see someone said alex Mcleish. Did anyone here think we where going to be good when latapy and sauzee weren't playing? shocking stuff. sauzee took over a sinking ship. in my opinion most managers have been in the game long enough to have just as good an understanding as the next manager. yes IMO Jim Duffy knows as much about football as alex mcleish, IMO most successful managers are lucky managers who get the right jobs at the right time. so for me this year i'm right behind:pfgwa

[D7 Bohs]

Obviously not true . More like 4 days since he arrived at Hibs . Would actually like him to spend more time in Ireland - was hoping we`d get some good signings from Ireland through his contacts there ( and I`m sure club thought the same when he was appointed ) but Doyle has been only player for first team signed from Irish club since Pat arrived .

TBH, there isn't any great crop of talent playing in the league here at the moment waiting to be harvested. Only two players currently getting first team football in LoI sides that might be prospects you've already looked at - Finn and Forrester.

[hibeesjoe]

Apologise for posting **** I read on twitter. Not a fan of fenlons but no point in posting absolute ***** either

[calumb]

As much as i like fenlon i think his days are numbered. We havent moved forward as club with him in charge.
We need terry butcher or derek adams in charge as they have performed miracles at their clubs
More than anything i want a team that is willing to fight

According to wikipedia Terry Butcher has a win ratio with inverness of 39.18% with one season of that was winning the first division compared to Fenlons of 36.49% its hardly miracle stuff

[Craig_in_Prague]

If a 7-0 humiliation does not mean a sacking, then whats the point in Hibs being involved in this sport at all. We are a spineless, gutless football club. Approaching 2 years of Mr Humiliation in charge. Never felt so low and sick of Hibs, to the point that I never thought I'd feel this way about my team (even after That final)
CC followed by this, I mean, its cruelty.

[West hamBERNIAN]

If a 7-0 humiliation does not mean a sacking, then whats the point in Hibs being involved in this sport at all. We are a spineless, gutless football club. Approaching 2 years of Mr Humiliation in charge. Never felt so low and sick of Hibs, to the point that I never thought I'd feel this way about my team (even after That final)
CC followed by this, I mean, its cruelty.

the way forward?

[West hamBERNIAN]

According to wikipedia Terry Butcher has a win ratio with inverness of 39.18% with one season of that was winning the first division compared to Fenlons of 36.49% its hardly miracle stuff

the difference is, when a team like inverness is winning as many games as hibs on a shoestring budget then the manager is a genius. how much money have we spent on sacking managers? lets sack everyone, wotherspoon, scott, fenlon, lewis, caldwell and handling because they might not make it and mcpake our captain. hold on that costs what, our budget for the next 3/4 years? oh sod it then and then we'll demand petrie sods off for not spending and we hire a big name manager that costs another years players budget. rant over. sick of it.

[IberianHibernian]

Granted for the first team, but we have picked up two of the brightest youngsters in irish football in McCaffery and Mullhall.

Pat must still keep an eye on clubs back in his homeland, but maybe he hasnt seen anyone who would benefit the first team and has opted to go for player's he knows who play in the main leagues in the ukGreat that we have signed 2 of the best Irish youngsters especially as they seem to have made an early impact for Hibs youth teams . Hopefully more to come .

[steakbake]

Apparently he has to win the derby and if doesnt he will be gone! Tbh he should be gone now!

Talk about setting the bar low!

[West hamBERNIAN]

Talk about setting the bar low!

I can see rod saying, it's down to the first derby of the season, we will continue to back you in the window and we may hump Motherwell but if we lose to them then you are sacked. Nae bother. In other news if we win the derby pat will be offered a ten year contract. :rolleyes:

[Hero76]

I don't think you can question Pat's work ethic If anyone wants to succeed its him unfortunately for us he has not got the tools or the knowledge to succeed at Hibs.

[SaulGoodman]

Plucked up the courage to look at Kickback.

And for the first time ever, I wasn't annoyed at what the yams were saying, I wasn't laughing at them grasping at straws.

.. I was embarrassed, everything they were saying was true, I was annoyed after 5-1 but genuinely embarrassed after this result. The team has once again embarrassed the fans while they happily collect their wages.

He has to go, this is one embarrassment too many, something drastic needs done at this club and it needs done before its too late.

Signed, a Fenlon supporting happy clapper.

[Hero76]

Plucked up the courage to look at Kickback.

And for the first time ever, I wasn't annoyed at what the yams were saying, I wasn't laughing at them grasping at straws.

.. I was embarrassed, everything they were saying was true, I was annoyed after 5-1 but genuinely embarrassed after this result. The team has once again embarrassed the fans while they happily collect their wages.

He has to go, this is one embarrassment too many, something drastic needs done at this club and it needs done before its too late.

Signed, a Fenlon supporting happy clapper.

I cant look

[hibby67]

I have liked pat since he first arrived he talks about the club with passion and seem to get what it is to follow hibs, his problem is he has not delivered

now the problem i see for pat (if he keeps his job) is he is a dead manager walking
reading the quotes on this thread the majority (on hibs.net) want him out and i'm sure will get on his back at the slightest thing that goes wrong on the pitch, which will filter down to the team which will make them play worse and we end up in a downward spiral.....

I suspect to get the fans on back on side he would have to at least be unbeating in the first 5 game scoring goals and playing good football but with moral at all time low i can't see that happening.

I'm sure if we had been beat 0-1 on thursday there would not have been the outcry to have him sacked, so is it a reaction to the hurt/embarrassment of thursday night or is it he has done as much as he can and cannot improve us any more

so if he does keep his job i think we need accept the boards decision and rally around him and give him and the team our support to help us get off to the best possible start to the seasone and build on from there

[Steve-O]

Said to a mate last night we could easily go to Tynecastle and lose 8-0...imagine that?! At this point though, you couldn't even say that is impossible!

[lord bunberry]

Had they not missed a sitter to make it 4, that game would have been over and Fenlon would have been sacked. The first 45 mins so bad it was scary. We were all so thrilled by the recovery, we've never really ask how we achieved it. IMHO Fenlon's last hand to play was to go with 2/3 upfront, hope to get a goal and hope that Falkirk tired - which is exactly how it panned out. Against better opposition that would not have worked.

From time to time all managers need a bit of luck. In Fenlon's case that day, he knew he was gone and threw his normal cautious nature to the wind - as he had nothing to lose at that point. Sadly, I don't think it was Fenlon's tactical genius or inspiration that won that game - it was born out of necessity.

Finally, if Fenlon is the right man for Hibs, then it is reasonable to think that other SPL clubs will be looking to appoint him if he gets the bullet. Does anyone seriously think another SPL club would hire him ? Of course not. Which begs the question... why is he then good enough for Hibs ?

You say there that had falkirk scored a fourth it was game over, well you can't have it both ways. If griffiths goal had been given against hearts or if we weren't on the wrong end of a shocking decision at tanadice then we would have been in the top six and could have finished as high as fourth. The fact is what happened last season happened, you can't blame him when he has good luck then condemn him when he has bad luck

[majorhibs]

Okay, I realize some of the results have been horrific and worse some might say the all round play has been dreadful. i know you will highlight this and say point made, sack him, clever. who do we bring in? pep, jose? no, the options will include the likes of the esteemed kenny sheils, #dickhead. see someone said alex Mcleish. Did anyone here think we where going to be good when latapy and sauzee weren't playing? shocking stuff. sauzee took over a sinking ship. in my opinion most managers have been in the game long enough to have just as good an understanding as the next manager. yes IMO Jim Duffy knows as much about football as alex mcleish, IMO most successful managers are lucky managers who get the right jobs at the right time. so for me this year i'm right behind:pfgwa


the way forward?


the difference is, when a team like inverness is winning as many games as hibs on a shoestring budget then the manager is a genius. how much money have we spent on sacking managers? lets sack everyone, wotherspoon, scott, fenlon, lewis, caldwell and handling because they might not make it and mcpake our captain. hold on that costs what, our budget for the next 3/4 years? oh sod it then and then we'll demand petrie sods off for not spending and we hire a big name manager that costs another years players budget. rant over. sick of it.


I can see rod saying, it's down to the first derby of the season, we will continue to back you in the window and we may hump Motherwell but if we lose to them then you are sacked. Nae bother. In other news if we win the derby pat will be offered a ten year contract. :rolleyes:

Ach yer obviously married or related, aw yer IMOs & realising, but if its all so easy for you to see, who's right & who aint, & who's gonna be lucky, tell me when this current manager's gonna start acting like a manager, or wi yer crystal ball tell me when we are next goin to be in a position where we are proud of the top level appointin the manager pickin the team of Hibs, cos right now this hurts too much to want to be a part of. It is not in a good place, Hibernian, when season after season you feel, again, that football is not for you anymore.

[Callum_62]

I'm sure if we had been beat 0-1 on thursday there would not have been the outcry to have him sacked, so is it a reaction to the hurt/embarrassment of thursday night or is it he has done as much as he can and cannot improve us any more

so if he does keep his job i think we need accept the boards decision and rally around him and give him and the team our support to help us get off to the best possible start to the seasone and build on from there

agree 100% of both points.

Ive we had went out 4-0 over both legs, no one would have be saying sack him

The players were an absolute embaressment last week....ive never seen a group of guys show less fight - is that Pats fault? possibly

Flipping it though, if they come out and dont loose to Well and beat Hearts in the 1st two games - will that show what the dressing room really thinks of Pat? I think so

Totally in the players hands if they want him sacked now....just dont turn up for the next 2 games and he will be gone (if he makes it that far)

[steakbake]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-no-sack-threat-says-pat-fenlon-1-3018641

Going nowhere. Apparently, he's not spoken to the Chairman since the result. Maybe they have taken place but saying they have will lead to more speculation.

[Boyle89]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-no-sack-threat-says-pat-fenlon-1-3018641

Going nowhere. Apparently, he's not spoken to the Chairman since the result. Maybe they have taken place but saying they have will lead to more speculation.
This can't be true! I'd ****ing hope they have had a meeting to discuss what happened!!
Really wish he had the decency to resign but clearly not. This is just going to be another CC moment where Petrie comes out and selects a few results and says 'this is why we want PF as manager'. BRUTAL being a hibs fan right now.

[Torto7062]

Dear Mr Petrie as we all know we are not exactly Real Madrid but
we as loyal fans should be able to look forward to watching our team each week.
Can you explain why our manager hasn't resigned or been releived of his position,
in any other walk of life if you made that many mistakes you would be excused
from your job on a permanent basis.

just ask a DJ who played a song for a laugh at our dearest neighbours expense.

just a Thought For you to take on board.

[monktonharp]

Dear Mr Petrie as we all know we are not exactly Real Madrid but
we as loyal fans should be able to look forward to watching our team each week.
Can you explain why our manager hasn't resigned or been releived of his position,
in any other walk of life if you made that many mistakes you would be excused
from your job on a permanent basis.

just ask a DJ who played a song for a laugh at our dearest neighbours expense.

just a Thought For you to take on board.:agree:sums up PETRIE, exactly. he empties a naughty dj,yet a manager that has conspired to bring one of our most embarrassing results ever, upon us, stays.

[Beefster]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-no-sack-threat-says-pat-fenlon-1-3018641

Going nowhere. Apparently, he's not spoken to the Chairman since the result. Maybe they have taken place but saying they have will lead to more speculation.

Completely expected from Fenlon, Rodders and the rest of the faceless crew but utterly dismaying all the same.

[YehButNoBut]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-no-sack-threat-says-pat-fenlon-1-3018641

Going nowhere. Apparently, he's not spoken to the Chairman since the result. Maybe they have taken place but saying they have will lead to more speculation.

Well at least that will keep the Yams happy (for a while anyway).

What is wrong with Hibs, the man has failed, empty him now before it's too late and he becomes Duffy II, I seen someone on another post make the point that would any other SPL club want Fenlon as their manager, I think we know the answer to that, so why should he be good enough for us.

He is not suddenly going to get any better, he's had his chance and blown it.

[Onion]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-no-sack-threat-says-pat-fenlon-1-3018641

Going nowhere. Apparently, he's not spoken to the Chairman since the result. Maybe they have taken place but saying they have will lead to more speculation.

So he hasn't had the decency to pick up the phone to his Boss and club's CEO and apologise for delivering the worst home/european result in the club's 138 year history ? If true, that's astonishing.

[Captain Trips]

The writing was on wall 6 months into him joining. Taking over from CC all he did was continue the terrible form he never actually improved us any and the results in his first 5/6 months show that. I never expected us to go on a run of winning lots but I thought winning more than 5 SPL games was achievable. He crowned it then with 5-1 and last season although an improvement was still not good enough. I think if we started last season with any other SPL manager they also woukd have improved us, the target wasn't that hard.

The most common praise for PF I have seen is he has created a team that is "harder to beat" than what went before. Looking for just a wee bit more than this by now.

[Onion]

If I read right this morning on twitter and Fenlon spends 4 days in Ireland a week what the **** is that about. Disgrace if true.

:agree: should be 7.

[patch1875]

'Harder to beat' don't think so. Currently in my mind on par with calderwood. He contracted until the end of the season. Is he going to get another contract? Bite the bullet now.

[Allant1981]

Completely expected from Fenlon, Rodders and the rest of the faceless crew but utterly dismaying all the same.

Not one single quote from pat or rod in this article, i would highly doubt that after that gubbing that they have not spoken about it

[Earl of Currie]

I can't disagree with much of the criticism of Fenlon , the results (5-1 & 7-0) were shocking , but we have to acknowledge what is happening at Hibs is a slow burning process.

Hibs are run as a business not a football club and like any business it takes time to get rid of the problem employees and instill a proper culture in any workplace and I believe Hibs are moving in the right direction but it takes time.
The CC , Mixu , Collins , Hughes appointments put Hibs back 6 years and the club is slowly unwinding the mistakes. Fenlon might be seen as a steady hand on the tiller for a couple of years but he has proven he can win trophies.

The other clubs which have improved over the same time , Motherwell , Ross County , Inverness for example have put all their resources into the first team and that is short term thinking.

We have improved the youth section over the last few years and having the EOS option will only help to develop players for the future , but again this takes time. Pat might not have had the best support over the last 18 months but has has appointed Jimmy Nicholl and that experience will improve the team and even the choice of players that Pat signs , but again will take time.

IMO what Hibs have missed and need to sign are a couple of leaders on the park. A couple of players who won't take any nonsense on and off the park and can organise , lead and motivate on the field.
Perhaps this is what they thought they could get from McPake , but this does not appear to be the case. I do not think Thomson will do this , hopefully the offers are out there for players to be picked up over the next couple of weeks. A couple of experienced heads on the park will allow the talented other players to flourish.

[Onion]

Said to a mate last night we could easily go to Tynecastle and lose 8-0...imagine that?! At this point though, you couldn't even say that is impossible!

That would be job complete - return to base Agent Fenlon - the most successful Hearts manager in history ! Anyone who thinks such a scoreline is impossible needs to wake up. This current Hibs side is quite capable of getting a result like that. Maybe then Petrie will think about changing the manager ?

[Captain Trips]

I can't disagree with much of the criticism of Fenlon , the results (5-1 & 7-0) were shocking , but we have to acknowledge what is happening at Hibs is a slow burning process.

Hibs are run as a business not a football club and like any business it takes time to get rid of the problem employees and instill a proper culture in any workplace and I believe Hibs are moving in the right direction but it takes time.
The CC , Mixu , Collins , Hughes appointments put Hibs back 6 years and the club is slowly unwinding the mistakes. Fenlon might be seen as a steady hand on the tiller for a couple of years but he has proven he can win trophies.

The other clubs which have improved over the same time , Motherwell , Ross County , Inverness for example have put all their resources into the first team and that is short term thinking.

We have improved the youth section over the last few years and having the EOS option will only help to develop players for the future , but again this takes time. Pat might not have had the best support over the last 18 months but has has appointed Jimmy Nicholl and that experience will improve the team and even the choice of players that Pat signs , but again will take time.

IMO what Hibs have missed and need to sign are a couple of leaders on the park. A couple of players who won't take any nonsense on and off the park and can organise , lead and motivate on the field.
Perhaps this is what they thought they could get from McPake , but this does not appear to be the case. I do not think Thomson will do this , hopefully the offers are out there for players to be picked up over the next couple of weeks. A couple of experienced heads on the park will allow the talented other players to flourish.

Disagree with a lot of that. Ship doesnt need steadied its a results business if a manager cannot get a club with our resource up pushing for 3rd within a year then not fit for purpose. Why does it need to take years? Excuse after excuse. Get a decent manager in who can spot decent players and use them correctly no need for years.

[Allant1981]

Disagree with a lot of that. Ship doesnt need steadied its a results business if a manager cannot get a club with our resource up pushing for 3rd within a year then not fit for purpose. Why does it need to take years? Excuse after excuse. Get a decent manager in who can spot decent players and use them correctly no need for years.

I slightly disagree, you do need to steady the ship if we want to finish 2-3 more than once every few yrs

[YehButNoBut]

Disagree with a lot of that. Ship doesnt need steadied its a results business if a manager cannot get a club with our resource up pushing for 3rd within a year then not fit for purpose. Why does it need to take years? Excuse after excuse. Get a decent manager in who can spot decent players and use them correctly no need for years.

:agree: With our resources any half decent manager should have us challenging for top 4 in the SPL especially without Rangers and the soon to be defunct Hearts.

Unfortunately Fenlon isn't even half decent.

[Captain Trips]

I slightly disagree, you do need to steady the ship, we need to this consistently though and not just once every few yrs

Earl of Currie talking about steady ship for couple of years, why? What is steady? I think peopke are making this job seem a lot harder than it needs to be.

Manager has better resources than to be steady, I really do not get these long timescales Hibs seem to need. We are a good sized club in SPL and should be looking at 3rd or higher this season regardless who is in charge.

Fenlon coming in halfway through a season was the steady then if you like, absolutely no way he should be getting the whole of last season in the steady envelope.

What league position is steady? Finishing 7th 6th it is a totally vague interpretation and can be different for each person.

Lits if folk dusagree with me and thats fine but im not vague and steady ship isnt acceptable. I want and expect 3rd, I am interesred in winning not avoiding defeat. Now deliver please.

[Gustavo Fring]

hibs problems start right at the top and it filters right down through the club

the owner of the club has no interest whatsoever in football or hibs - time he sold up

the chairman has no interest in football whatsoever , has no ambition to be anything other than mediocre . comes on tv being all smug about the jambos demise yet is nowhere to be seen in the aftermath of our worst defeat ever .

the board as above

the manager is utterly clueless about every aspect of football , constantly playing players out of position . cut open by teams at will . 2 lucky cup runs to the final add some gloss to catastrophic league form

the fans pay their money , back the team and get slapped in the face time and again

we should not accept this . the green and white army must descend upon easter road en-masse and demand change . fenlon and petrie removed of their positions and the club sold to someone that at least has a passing interest in football

[Bad Martini]

Disagree with a lot of that. Ship doesnt need steadied its a results business if a manager cannot get a club with our resource up pushing for 3rd within a year then not fit for purpose. Why does it need to take years? Excuse after excuse. Get a decent manager in who can spot decent players and use them correctly no need for years.



Spot on. Being permanently in transition means mediocre is the norm. We should pay based on results and effort. No effort and no results.... Nothing but a very average base salary.. Continual ineptitude and they're emptied. Simples

[HFC 0-7]

I can't disagree with much of the criticism of Fenlon , the results (5-1 & 7-0) were shocking , but we have to acknowledge what is happening at Hibs is a slow burning process.

Hibs are run as a business not a football club and like any business it takes time to get rid of the problem employees and instill a proper culture in any workplace and I believe Hibs are moving in the right direction but it takes time.
The CC , Mixu , Collins , Hughes appointments put Hibs back 6 years and the club is slowly unwinding the mistakes. Fenlon might be seen as a steady hand on the tiller for a couple of years but he has proven he can win trophies.

The other clubs which have improved over the same time , Motherwell , Ross County , Inverness for example have put all their resources into the first team and that is short term thinking.

We have improved the youth section over the last few years and having the EOS option will only help to develop players for the future , but again this takes time. Pat might not have had the best support over the last 18 months but has has appointed Jimmy Nicholl and that experience will improve the team and even the choice of players that Pat signs , but again will take time.

IMO what Hibs have missed and need to sign are a couple of leaders on the park. A couple of players who won't take any nonsense on and off the park and can organise , lead and motivate on the field.
Perhaps this is what they thought they could get from McPake , but this does not appear to be the case. I do not think Thomson will do this , hopefully the offers are out there for players to be picked up over the next couple of weeks. A couple of experienced heads on the park will allow the talented other players to flourish.

Rubbish, we are in the same position as when he took over, struggling to score and rubbish at the back and most of all, zero bottle, a push over of a team. You say it takes ages to get rid of problem employees, how many are the problem employees that are left over from calderwood era? 2 shocking results over a year apart and it's the same problems effecting us which the manager said he would fix. He has failed at his main goal, to stop us being pushovers and make us harder to beat.

Why does the Collins mixu Hughes appointments take so long to unwind? Other clubs have been losing a lot of players each season and they replace them, they get these new teams to gel quickly and play as a team. I think we are so fed up with the performances and we are kidding ourselves and making up these myths that its a massively long process.

in today's football world of loans and short term contracts, managers need to hit the ground running and get the team playing together straight from the off. Managers don't have time to rebuild as they have to rebuild every year. Rebuilding is just part of the job as a manager in the spfl and is not unique to hibs.

[Bostonhibby]

Rubbish, we are in the same position as when he took over, struggling to score and rubbish at the back and most of all, zero bottle, a push over of a team. You say it takes ages to get rid of problem employees, how many are the problem employees that are left over from calderwood era? 2 shocking results over a year apart and it's the same problems effecting us which the manager said he would fix. He has failed at his main goal, to stop us being pushovers and make us harder to beat.

Why does the Collins mixu Hughes appointments take so long to unwind? Other clubs have been losing a lot of players each season and they replace them, they get these new teams to gel quickly and play as a team. I think we are so fed up with the performances and we are kidding ourselves and making up these myths that its a massively long process.

in today's football world of loans and short term contracts, managers need to hit the ground running and get the team playing together straight from the off. Managers don't have time to rebuild as they have to rebuild every year. Rebuilding is just part of the job as a manager in the spfl and is not unique to hibs.

Agree this part especially, we seem to take a helluva long time to achieve modest or no progress. St Johnstone (for example) have lost a few and therefore had to rebuild, they seem to be further along the way than we are, will be interested to see how Aberdeen and Dundee utd do next season, there's been a lot of coming and going - same with Motherwell where McCall seems to be able to pick up new players and push on very quickly.

Could say the same re Butcher.

For me Fenlon should be given the now infamous run up to the AGM in November and see how we are placed then.

[Gustavo Fring]

fenlon has had more than enough time . he has to go before a ball is kicked this season . people really ought to stop making excuses for him he's had a season and a half and we are no further forward

st johnstone put rosenborg out the europa league on the same night we were thrashed 7-0 . that was tommy wrights 1st games in charge . maybe they were a bit lucky . but even had they lost or went out on away goals it would have still been a good experience for the club

we were utterly humiliated in front of 16000 long suffering fans who payed good money to witness the horror . it was a pretty ordinary team that thrashed us , not bayern munich or ajax . its unacceptable that he can continue after that

[Beefster]

So he hasn't had the decency to pick up the phone to his Boss and club's CEO and apologise for delivering the worst home/european result in the club's 138 year history ? If true, that's astonishing.

In Fenlon's defence, it's a two-way street. Why hasn't Rodders been in touch with him?


Not one single quote from pat or rod in this article, i would highly doubt that after that gubbing that they have not spoken about it

No quotes but the article appears to be written as a result of a conversation with Fenlon. Just because Fenlon didn't go on record doesn't mean that he didn't tell the journalist that they haven't spoken.

[West hamBERNIAN]

[QUOTE=majorhibs;3692600]Ach yer obviously married or related, aw yer IMOs & realising, but if its all so easy for you to see, who's right & who aint, & who's gonna be lucky, tell me when this current manager's gonna start acting like a manager, or wi yer crystal ball tell me when we are next goin to be in a position where we are proud of the top level appointin the manager pickin the team of Hibs, cos right now this hurts too much to want to be a part of. It is not in a good place, Hibernian, when season after season you feel, again, that football is not for you

Well I think the majority feel the same, so do we sack pat and replace him and probably have another 2/3 year transition period? If a manager came in now there's no way he would get to spend anything if Collins has signed. And who are we going to find? Who is it we can afford that would have such a superior football knowledge than pat? Can we identify what past managers have done wrong so that his replacement could succeed?

[Beefster]

Well I think the majority feel the same

Based on?

[The Green Goblin]

Ive we had went out 4-0 over both legs, no one would have be saying sack him)

If your granny had baws etc. We didn't lose 4-0, we lost 9-0 and that's the point: that's what actually happened, not what happened in an imaginary parallel "what if" universe.

[mcfly]

This can't be true! I'd ****ing hope they have had a meeting to discuss what happened!!
Really wish he had the decency to resign but clearly not. This is just going to be another CC moment where Petrie comes out and selects a few results and says 'this is why we want PF as manager'. BRUTAL being a hibs fan right now.


Fans decide if the manager stays or goes. In this instance the manager in my opinion has lost not all but the majority of the fans.

Thursday night should be pat fenlons last game in charge at hibs as on his watch we have been humiliated too
Often.

He should resign as he is not up to it but I fully expect him to be out after motherwell game

Bring back alex Mcleish.

[Onion]

:agree: With our resources any half decent manager should have us challenging for top 4 in the SPL especially without Rangers and the soon to be defunct Hearts.

Unfortunately Fenlon isn't even half decent.

And this morning, we have Hibs players quoted in the press saying we can make the top six :rolleyes:. Hibs will have the 2nd or 3rd highest payroll in the SPL this season (Huns gone, Yams no more money), but players think we might make the top six ? WTF is that about ? That was LAST year's target.

Everyone associated with Hibs (Board, Manager, Players) should be saying and thinking TOP THREE minimum - anything else is FAILURE and not good enough. That's a problem with culture, lack of belief, lack of ambition and complete lack of accountability.

Now we all know we aint going to get top three, we'll be lucky to get top six, so the question then is WHY ? What part of the business is under-performing - cos something must be. Is it the quality of the players, the manager or both ? And what are we doing about it and who's sorting it out ?

[West hamBERNIAN]

Based on?

Based on the fact hibs have been **** since Mowbray. Thread after thread of negativity and we deserve better. Nobody has been saying " what fantastic entertainment" if that's not due to the majority of fans sick of poor football then what is it. Anyway the point of this thread is should fenlon be sacked. 70% saying yes, where do we go after that?????????

[Onion]

In Fenlon's defence, it's a two-way street. Why hasn't Rodders been in touch with him?



No quotes but the article appears to be written as a result of a conversation with Fenlon. Just because Fenlon didn't go on record doesn't mean that he didn't tell the journalist that they haven't spoken.

I would sack them both, so Fenlon hiding from his boss is no defence. Fenlon (and Petrie) need to man-up and do what's right. They have both been instrumental in two of the most humiliating events in the club's 138 years. In any other business (football or otherwise) they would be shown the door. The fact that they are BOTH still employed by Hibernian FC says everything you need to say about the culture within the Company and at the club. And our owner STF has to take some blame for allowing this to perpetuate for so long.

[Captain Trips]

And this morning, we have Hibs players quoted in the press saying we can make the top six :rolleyes:. Hibs will have the 2nd or 3rd highest payroll in the SPL this season (Huns gone, Yams no more money), but players think we might make the top six ? WTF is that about ? That was LAST year's target.

Everyone associated with Hibs (Board, Manager, Players) should be saying and thinking TOP THREE minimum - anything else is FAILURE and not good enough. That's a problem with culture, lack of belief, lack of ambition and complete lack of accountability.

Now we all know we aint going to get top three, we'll be lucky to get top six, so the question then is WHY ? What part of the business is under-performing - cos something must be. Is it the quality of the players, the manager or both ? And what are we doing about it and who's sorting it out ?

There is and never was a top 6 bottom 6 for me there are 12 positions and if we are not in top 3/4 then its failure.

[YehButNoBut]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-no-sack-threat-says-pat-fenlon-1-3018641

Going nowhere. Apparently, he's not spoken to the Chairman since the result. Maybe they have taken place but saying they have will lead to more speculation.

Saw this post under the Scotsman story, sums it up well, unfortunately.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"But last night he insisted he has not spoken to the chief executive Rod Petrie or any other member of the board since the European exit and knew nothing of any imminent threat to his job."

I have a bit of difficulty with this statement, your team gets horsed and the boards plan is in tatters and there's no communication???

Either someone is not telling the truth or the breakdown in communication is so bad that it cannot recover.

This was a watershed result for Hibs, the culmination of a series of failures of the same magnitude with the same problems with coaching, tactics, spirit, leadership.

If there has been no communication after an event like this then then the whole board should hang their heads in shame and resign as they cannot run a business like this and Hibs will suffer further as a result if they don't.

[Andy74]

Said to a mate last night we could easily go to Tynecastle and lose 8-0...imagine that?! At this point though, you couldn't even say that is impossible!

Get a grip. Pathetic.

[West hamBERNIAN]

Fans decide if the manager stays or goes. In this instance the manager in my opinion has lost not all but the majority of the fans.

Thursday night should be pat fenlons last game in charge at hibs as on his watch we have been humiliated too
Often.

He should resign as he is not up to it but I fully expect him to be out after motherwell game

Bring back alex Mcleish.

Can't beleive anybody would genuinely want him back. You really think he would be good? If pat goes he would be not only the last guy I'd choose but the last type of manager I'd choose. Would rather get a coach from Swansea on a low wage than spend a load on a manager who only succeeds on a big budget. He quit forest because he was promised a bigger budget than other teams. If pat does go then give a manager that will bring through our own talent and play football. I'd rather try and fail at that than get some big name manager hoping to get by on big name players.

[mcfly]

Thank goodness your not in charge.

Last type of manager you'd choose??

You forgot 6-2, you forgot calderwood, yogi, etc etc.

[Keith_M]

Alex McLeish would cost us a fortune in wages and expect to spend a fortune in signings. Safe to say that he's not an option.

[Brizo]

PF has managed over two of the worst defeats in my lifetime the Hertz debacle and last Thursday. The support imo have been remarkably patient with PF. The two Cup runs added by the fact he seems a dedicated and decent guy have no doubt contributed to that patience. Fans appeared to have bought into the thought that you cant keep changing managers and need to finally settle on someone and give him time. Its obvious after Thursday that that times running out.

With our resources top 6 should be a given. 2nd or 3rd an achievable goal and one that is actively strived for. This is make or break for PF. A poor start to the season and he will be away by the end of the first 1/4 of it. I would be sorry to see him go from the pov that he is a thoroughly decent guy with Hibs best interests in mind. However that will be balanced by the facts that I do worry that the Hibs jobs been too big for him and that he has been given as much,if not more time, than most of his recent predecessors.

[Waxy]

Said to a mate last night we could easily go to Tynecastle and lose 8-0...imagine that?! At this point though, you couldn't even say that is impossible!Planet you on mate? If the jambos could beat us 8-0 teams like Partick and St Mirren will pump us 12-0 and 14-0.
Malmo would have hit 20.Get real.We might no be the best but the yams are cack and are going down.

[bigwheel]

Said to a mate last night we could easily go to Tynecastle and lose 8-0...imagine that?! At this point though, you couldn't even say that is impossible!

On what basis ? They are filled with 18 and 19 year olds ...worse than when we turned them over last year ...we will do them again...

[West hamBERNIAN]

Thank goodness your not in charge.

Last type of manager you'd choose??

You forgot 6-2, you forgot calderwood, yogi, etc etc.

I have never claimed to have managerial qualities nor do I claim to know it all, I only offer my opinion in debate of things I disagree with. In reply to the other nonsense, I haven't forgot 6 2, I was there and remember it vividly, I was lucky enough to be a season ticket holder At the time. I was also there when Sauzee and latapy weren't playing and believe me, he jumped a sinking ship. Sauzee had no chance of succeeding after that. Unless he took a player/manager role. Alex has shown at villa, Birmingham and forest when the money dries up there is no plan b. he didn't even find Sauzee. Sauzee joined because of his admiration of Alex as a player but it was an agent who identified him as an option. You think if Alex came back he'd bring in the likes of that again? Much rather we brought in a young manager who would come in to play football. Trying to replicate what Mowbray did is the only way I can see hibs being successful.

[Makaveli]

And this morning, we have Hibs players quoted in the press saying we can make the top six :rolleyes:. Hibs will have the 2nd or 3rd highest payroll in the SPL this season (Huns gone, Yams no more money), but players think we might make the top six ? WTF is that about ? That was LAST year's target.

Everyone associated with Hibs (Board, Manager, Players) should be saying and thinking TOP THREE minimum - anything else is FAILURE and not good enough. That's a problem with culture, lack of belief, lack of ambition and complete lack of accountability.

Now we all know we aint going to get top three, we'll be lucky to get top six, so the question then is WHY ? What part of the business is under-performing - cos something must be. Is it the quality of the players, the manager or both ? And what are we doing about it and who's sorting it out ?

It's just shocking. Too many pathetic losers at our club.

Finishing 6th in a league with no Huns and broken Hearts should be a sackable offence in itself. With our resources the target should be 2nd and the minimum goal 4th.

[eastmainsmsh]

Go to Tynecastle and win 8-0 all is forgiven imo :taxi 4:fenlon

[West hamBERNIAN]

PF has managed over two of the worst defeats in my lifetime the Hertz debacle and last Thursday. The support imo have been remarkably patient with PF. The two Cup runs added by the fact he seems a dedicated and decent guy have no doubt contributed to that patience. Fans appeared to have bought into the thought that you cant keep changing managers and need to finally settle on someone and give him time. Its obvious after Thursday that that times running out.

With our resources top 6 should be a given. 2nd or 3rd an achievable goal and one that is actively strived for. This is make or break for PF. A poor start to the season and he will be away by the end of the first 1/4 of it. I would be sorry to see him go from the pov that he is a thoroughly decent guy with Hibs best interests in mind. However that will be balanced by the facts that I do worry that the Hibs jobs been too big for him and that he has been given as much,if not more time, than most of his recent predecessors.

Agree with a lot of what you said but also we can't afford to sacking managers. Also the two defeats you have mentioned have been against teams with far bigger budgets than ourselves who were set up with strength all the way through the teams, we simply can't afford to match that. Although, the hearts game in particular was a ridiculous performance, they're simply was no passing quality in that team at all and you have to question why that is. I think we have been slowly improving in that sense and before malmo I was feeling quite positive that providing we could bring in a goalscorer and someone with a bit of quality on the right we'd go on to have a good season. I don't think I was alone in thinking this hence a lot of ppl believing we could get a result against a good malmo side.

[chrisski33]

It's just shocking. Too many pathetic losers at our club.

Finishing 6th in a league with no Huns and broken Hearts should be a sackable offence in itself. With our resources the target should be 2nd and the minimum goal 4th.

Sick of hearing players saying this kinda stuff in the press and then not delivering it. I understand they have to say something but really think they shudnt

[Hermit Crab]

On what basis ? They are filled with 18 and 19 year olds ...worse than when we turned them over last year ...we will do them again...

Based in what? Our pre season results are far worst than theirs. They seem to be playing as a team and we don't seem to be playing. 0-0 with raith, near enough full team. They beat them 0-5 with a team filled with 18-19 year olds.

[bigwheel]

Based in what? Our pre season results are far worst than theirs. They seem to be playing as a team and we don't seem to be playing. 0-0 with raith, near enough full team. They beat them 0-5 with a team filled with 18-19 year olds.

You can't use pre season as an indicator ...our squad is better than there's . We will add to ours, they can't . There is no way they will hammer us , which was the post I referred to ...we will be beat them..they are not our benchmark this season...

[SHODAN]

Said to a mate last night we could easily go to Tynecastle and lose 8-0...imagine that?! At this point though, you couldn't even say that is impossible!

Absolutely no chance of that happening.

We could still lose though, and given how depleted, in crisis and ***** that Hearts team is that would be embarrassing enough.

[kaimendhibs]

We need a new, strong no nonsense manager in now. One who can see that our whole defence is Tom kite enough without playing players out of position. One who doesn't play players who are clearly struggling with injury while fully fit guys sit on the bench. And most of all, a manager who won't allow us to be humiliated again. Mcleish isn't working, surely he could be persuaded to come given that he would have a real chance of success in a very weak league, this raising his profile again also


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[Andy74]

We need a new, strong no nonsense manager in now. One who can see that our whole defence is Tom kite enough without playing players out of position. One who doesn't play players who are clearly struggling with injury while fully fit guys sit on the bench. And most of all, a manager who won't allow us to be humiliated again. Mcleish isn't working, surely he could be persuaded to come given that he would have a real chance of success in a very weak league, this raising his profile again also


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With Clancy, McGivern and McPake injured what would you suggest another manager would do about things?

[kaimendhibs]

Perhaps sign a couple of centre halfs, play Tudor jones to help protect the defence, play Mullen, a right back, at right back. That's just gor starters. Play Craig in behind striker/s, not out on wing.


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[Niffy]

If this "beat Hearts or get sacked" thing was true... that's just as embarrassing.

Worded all wrong. If it was along the lines of "prove yourself by winning the first 6 games.... or get sacked, fair enough - that's a challenge.
But beat Hearts ???

That shouldn't even be a mild task in the current climate.

Shows how bad the lack of ambition is.

[kaimendhibs]

With Clancy, McGivern and McPake injured what would you suggest another manager would do about things?

Oh, Stevie wonder could see the defence has been crying out to be strengthened for ages. Or are 5, 7, 3 goals against us in games just blips?


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[Andy74]

Oh, Stevie wonder could see the defence has been crying out to be strengthened for ages. Or are 5, 7, 3 goals against us in games just blips?


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So we signed a young right back, who then got injured although he did make the bench. We also tried for McManus.

I think we are trying to strengthen but its not easy when 3 of your first pick back 4 are injured. You can't just buy others in their place when we are still paying them.

[trev the hat]

So we signed a young right back, who then got injured although he did make the bench. We also tried for McManus.

I think we are trying to strengthen but its not easy when 3 of your first pick back 4 are injured. You can't just buy others in their place when we are still paying them.

2 of that back 4 are long term continual injury breakdowns & severance deals should seriously be considered. If we tried for McManus we should be going for Webster, & Hateley is available but not for long,these 2 would make a huge difference at the back if we could negotiate the offload of the 2 long term injured asap.

[Onion]

Sick of hearing players saying this kinda stuff in the press and then not delivering it. I understand they have to say something but really think they shudnt

Hanlon's in the press this morning saying we need to aim for Europe this season to try make up for last Thursday :bitchy: They really have no idea. Worst European scoreline in Scotland's history, biggest Hibs home defeat ever.... and he thinks this can be reversed by having another go :rolleyes:

Fed up of Hanlon and Stephenson doing ALL their talking in the press and humiliating us on the park. Enough already, please just STOP !!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Hanlon's in the press this morning saying we need to aim for Europe this season to try make up for last Thursday :bitchy: They really have no idea. Worst European scoreline in Scotland's history, biggest Hibs home defeat ever.... and he thinks this can be reversed by having another go :rolleyes:

Fed up of Hanlon and Stephenson doing ALL their talking in the press and humiliating us on the park. Enough already, please just STOP !!

Would you rather Halnlon have said "we won't make Europe for another few years, so we won't lose that heavily again"? They can't win no matter what they say.....

[jdships]

I take it PF does have man management skills ? Collins league career as manager is significantly better. Average 10pts better per 38 game season. Small sample sizes and different circumstances but highlights how poor PF has been during his league career with us.

I made no reference to PF's " skills" that is another issue all together !!
Was commenting purely on what I know re JC .
Please don't miss quote
:rolleyes:

[Treadstone]

I made no reference to PF's " skills" that is another issue all together !!
Was commenting purely on what I know re JC .
Please don't miss quote
:rolleyes:

That's why i phrased it as a question although looking at your grammar i can understand why you missed it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Would you rather Halnlon have said "we won't make Europe for another few years, so we won't lose that heavily again"? They can't win no matter what they say.....

Thats right, players cant say anything right after a defeat like Thursdays. You were also right when you said they cant win, that team will have plenty of games where they cant win imo. :boo hoo:

[HibeePaj]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory

[blackpoolhibs]

I do remember the team Fenlon inherited when he arrived, and i find it very difficult to think that team would have lost 0-7 at easter road on Thursday. And if they did, i'd not expect any new side the manager was building to do the same 18 months later.

[West hamBERNIAN]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory

good post mate, there is every chance we could go on to have a successful season under fenlon and possibly a good cup run also. bring on motherwell. We'll see where we really stand there.

[Purehibee_MYB]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory

Good posts that shows that Fenlon deserves the start of the season at the very least to turn things around. Knee-jerk reactions don't tend to do very well in football. Look at Wolves for example, sack McCarthy with no plan as to what to do afterwards and either directly or indirectly as a result of that they end up in League 1. I think with regards to Fenlon his signings have been an improvement on that of Calderwood and even Hughes (except Stokes). We all love Claros, we all wanted McPake, many say Williams is the best keeper we've had in years (even though I'm not one of them) and I personally highly rate Taiwo. So lets get behind him as the season starts and give him one last chance at this management malarkey.

[1875STEVE]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory

Have to say I agree with all of the above, I think the players he has brought in so far, this pre-season, look the part.

As much as Thursday night was a horrible experience for everyone connected to the club, Malmo were a fantastic side, but not one we should be getting horsed off of mind you, and miles ahead of anything outside Celtic in the SPL.

I believe that with another 3 signings, CF , RM/W and CB, we have the makings of a very good side (SPL standard).

[Bobby's Cinema]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory
:hilarious nobody can make any excuses for Pat but you'll certainly give it 'a right good go'. As for the board have faith, I think we can agree that after recent appointments, that doesn't count for very much at all. It just means we will stagnate for a little while longer

[HibeePaj]

:hilarious nobody can make any excuses for Pat but you'll certainly give it 'a right good go'. As for the board have faith, I think we can agree that after recent appointments, that doesn't count for very much at all. It just means we will stagnate for a little while longer

Can't see what excuses I made for Thursday night in that post?

It's not about appointments, I think I'm right in saying that Fenlon is probably the first manager they've had enough faith in to give substantial financial backing since Mixu.

[Treadstone]

Can't see what excuses I made for Thursday night in that post?

It's not about appointments, I think I'm right in saying that Fenlon is probably the first manager they've had enough faith in to give substantial financial backing since Mixu.

Yogi came after Mixu.

[West hamBERNIAN]

:hilarious nobody can make any excuses for Pat but you'll certainly give it 'a right good go'. As for the board have faith, I think we can agree that after recent appointments, that doesn't count for very much at all. It just means we will stagnate for a little while longer

so whats the answer. easy to say someone is wrong.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Can't see what excuses I made for Thursday night in that post?

It's not about appointments, I think I'm right in saying that Fenlon is probably the first manager they've had enough faith in to give substantial financial backing since Mixu.
I have absolutely no patience for another season in the bottom 6. This I believe is geared up to be another season of underachievement with Pat.

For how long do we say, this is Hibs time to be pulling away everything is in place. When instead we are going backwards.

[OsloHibs]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory

Great post :top marks
Ben Williams had a nightmare on Thursday too, and he was our fans player of the year last season.
It was an awful night, truly awful. But Pat is still the manager and whilst it was a night we'll never ever forget- we must all look forward to the new season.

[Bobby's Cinema]

so whats the answer. easy to say someone is wrong.
The answer for me is to replace the manager. We can say 'there is a much deeper rooted problem at Hibs' etc, and we have seen that this is true. But watching Hibs under Pat, I don't see any game plan. Last season was littered with games setup with Leigh upfront on his own with balls launched up to him with little support. Then we seen a few occasions where the players were let of the leash and got the ball down abit more (Hearts,Dundee Utd Away,2nd half v Falkirk) where the performances improved. But he continued to revert back. I don't see us going anywhere whilst Pat is in charge

[J-C]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory


This the same board who have given us Yogi, Calderwood and Mixu (although he did learn from his mistakes and back to Killie a better manager)

They can have as much faith as they want but it doesn't mean they have made the correct appointment and also doesn't necessarily mean we have faith in him or even to a greater extent the board.

We have backed each one but enough is enough, we had a season where 2nd spot was there for the taking and although we had a decent start, we blew it again after xmas, 2 finals, 1 humiliating and the other overran and didn't turn up. Then on a night when we get back into Europe with a fair sized crowd we turn in probably the worst performance of his tenure, his record is extremely poor at 36% win ratio with CC beating him to bottom spot, that in itself says it all for me, time to go.

[HibeePaj]

Yogi came after Mixu.

That is correct...

And?

[Beefster]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory

I know you won't particularly care but I stop reading posts as soon as I see the rubbish (which has become Hibs.net fact) in bold repeated. Fenlon took over a Hibs team in 9th. His primary challenge was to get them into the top six but he couldn't even match Calderwood's point average and finished 11th.

I can guarantee you that at no point during Fenlon's recruitment was he told that the target was to avoid relegation.

[Treadstone]

That is correct...

And?


Can't see what excuses I made for Thursday night in that post?

It's not about appointments, I think I'm right in saying that Fenlon is probably the first manager they've had enough faith in to give substantial financial backing since Mixu.

Yogi was backed financially.

[ScottB]

I can't see how any of Fenlon, Calderwood, Hughes or Mixu could be portrayed as having not been backed by the board. We've probably signed north of 50, maybe even 60 players in that time.

Yes, when Fenlon came in the squad wasn't great, he shored it up with loans that January. Since the's had 3 windows to build his own squad, and it is now very much his squad. Surely Stevenson and Hanlon are the only ones left from before Pat took over? So I see no argument as to why he needs more time to turn things around, or get his squad together. What other clubs when changing a manager would expect it to take 2 seasons to see an improvement? Are we actually any better than we were under Calderwood? I don't see it. And we certainly didn't get the worryingly regular hammerings that are the hallmark of Pat's tenure.


Thursday night was NOT a one off. It is the latest in a long line of embarrassments. Enough is enough.

[Unseen work]

Hanlon's in the press this morning saying we need to aim for Europe this season to try make up for last Thursday :bitchy: They really have no idea. Worst European scoreline in Scotland's history, biggest Hibs home defeat ever.... and he thinks this can be reversed by having another go :rolleyes:

Fed up of Hanlon and Stephenson doing ALL their talking in the press and humiliating us on the park. Enough already, please just STOP !!

So him having ambition to kick on this season for Europe again, which would be a good season and how they want to move on from Thursday is a bad thing??? Much prefer that to him saying were going to finish bottom 6 and keep feeling sorry for ourselves because we lost 7-0???

[Unseen work]

Calm down, calm down...

I think folk need to remember the team Fenlon inherited when he took charge. The state the team was in when Calderwood left the club was embarrassing and arguably the worst hibs side I can remember.
In comes Fenlon, and his primary challenge(and it was a challenge) is to save us from relegation. With the uncertainty over what level we would be playing our football next season, Fenlon is restricted mostly to loan signings. A hat full of league1/2 standard loan players which included a couple of diamonds in McPake and Claros. I think most would agree that had we not got McPake in on loan when we did, we probably would have struggled to stay up. As an added bonus Fenlon gets us a cup run and is the first Hibs manager since McLeish to get us to a Scottish Cup Final... "You can't choose your opponents" and I think many of us, especially with the team of 7 loan signings would agree that it was always going to be a tough ask to end our hoodoo, especially against that lot who had been thriving on Derbys for the past 3 years under Calderwood and Hughes. Half the team that day were playing their last game for the club, most knew that was the case, and it showed in their "doesnt matter what happens, I'm not here next season anyway" attitude in the match. The result was a sin, and destroying for the fans, but the man has to be merited for getting us there in the first place. With hindsight now, we know we were beaten by a team over paid and financially corrupt. 13 months later they are in administration and on the edge of oblivion(anyway, that's by the by).
So 12/13 preparation begins. Preparing for his first full season in the SPL, Fenlon gets to make his first serious mark on the team. Brings in McPake and gets Leigh in on loan for another 6 months. 2 moves we all wanted (albeit griffiths would have been a perm. move ideally). Mcgivern, Williams, Taiwo, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury and Deegan are also brought into the fold. We make an almost surprisingly good start to the season and are top of the league In November and pump hearts out of the cup in December.
January, Fenlon ties down Leigh, mcgivern and Claros 6 month loan extensions and brings in Thommo and Robertson. Despite dip in form after new year we NARROWLY miss out on top 6 and can feel hard done by, by refereeing/linesman mistakes against Dundee United and hearts. Costing us 4 points, enough to have seen us seal a top 6 spot.
Missing out on the our target of top 6 we manage to do second best and finish 7th, finish the season UNBEATEN against that lot after 5 Derbies, and again, the bonus of a Scottish Cup Final; back to back Scottish Cup Finals FFS.
The final itself? we were beaten by a clinical Celtic side.

So again, Fenlon prepares for another season in the SPL/SPFL.

Thursdays results was humiliating for everyone involved with the club and nobody can make excuses for him nor the team over the result But this knee-jerk 'sack Fenlon', 'sack the board' p*** is so far wide of the mark its embarrassing.

The guy is still building his team for next season. He has already brought in some good names on top of the promising generation of youth players coming through at the moment. We all know he has been trusted with a substantial amount(for us anyway) to spend in the transfer market this year.

The board have faith in him, so should the fans!

Lets get behind him, enough Fenlon bashing for this week please.

Glory, Glory

Brilliant post! Their is no excuses for Thursday but malmo were so on form and we just weren't even close, play them again in December when were half way through and their season is done and u would bet my house it wouldn't be close to 7-0 and you would see a far different performance

[HibeePaj]

Yogi was backed financially.

I stand corrected then, as I remember it he signed free agents and had a team 90% of which where to be out of contract at the end of his second season.

[YehButNoBut]

Brilliant post! Their is no excuses for Thursday but malmo were so on form and we just weren't even close, play them again in December when were half way through and their season is done and u would bet my house it wouldn't be close to 7-0 and you would see a far different performance

Would be interesting to see how a match against Malmo, say in November would work out, a lot closer for sure.

Malmo were beaten 2-0 by Gefle who are 11th in the Swedish top league and have been on a run of 14 league games without a win. That would make the 11th team in Sweden way above us in ability which just isn't the case, in many ways we were pretty unlucky on Thursday to meet a side at the top of their game whilst we are way short of being at our best, are still re-building and had a makeshift back 4 playing.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Would be interesting to see how a match against Malmo, say in November would work out, a lot closer for sure.

Malmo are currently 2-0 down to Gefle who are 11th in the Swedish top league and have been on a run of 14 league games without a win. That would make the 11th team in Sweden way above us in ability which just isn't the case, in many ways we were pretty unlucky on Thursday to meet a side at the top of their game whilst we are way short of being at our best, are still re-building and had a makeshift back 4 playing.
:grr:

[Treadstone]

I stand corrected then, as I remember it he signed free agents and had a team 90% of which where to be out of contract at the end of his second season.

Stokes and Miller were on good money and the former signed for a fee (between £300k and £500k depending where you read it). Whether the deals were however many years the wages would still have to be paid.

[Beefster]

Brilliant post! Their is no excuses for Thursday but malmo were so on form and we just weren't even close, play them again in December when were half way through and their season is done and u would bet my house it wouldn't be close to 7-0 and you would see a far different performance

If. But. Maybe.

We should never change the manager because he might do better in five months time.

[greenlex]

I have absolutely no patience for another season in the bottom 6. This I believe is geared up to be another season of underachievement with Pat.

For how long do we say, this is Hibs time to be pulling away everything is in place. When instead we are going backwards.
Missed out on top sixby a baw hair and were best of the rest. in what way is that going backwards to the previous season?

[West hamBERNIAN]

The answer for me is to replace the manager. We can say 'there is a much deeper rooted problem at Hibs' etc, and we have seen that this is true. But watching Hibs under Pat, I don't see any game plan. Last season was littered with games setup with Leigh upfront on his own with balls launched up to him with little support. Then we seen a few occasions where the players were let of the leash and got the ball down abit more (Hearts,Dundee Utd Away,2nd half v Falkirk) where the performances improved. But he continued to revert back. I don't see us going anywhere whilst Pat is in charge

this has been the answer since mowbray. sack him sack him sack him. and then appoint who? the next sack him? whats the point? its obviously something else, every manager we have had has been experienced football managers with a great deal of success in the game. they knew how to win games before they came here. do you think all our managers have said "lump it up top" since mowbray?

[West hamBERNIAN]

If. But. Maybe.

We should never change the manager because he might do better in five months time.

alternatively if. but. maybe.

we should never change the manager because he might not do better in five months time.
it would cost say 50k to sack fenlon then poss 50-100k to sign the next? and how much to sack him in this if but maybe game.

[truehibernian]

Would be interesting to see how a match against Malmo, say in November would work out, a lot closer for sure.

Malmo are currently 2-0 down to Gefle who are 11th in the Swedish top league and have been on a run of 14 league games without a win. That would make the 11th team in Sweden way above us in ability which just isn't the case, in many ways we were pretty unlucky on Thursday to meet a side at the top of their game whilst we are way short of being at our best, are still re-building and had a makeshift back 4 playing.

That's what infuriates me with footballers mate - this old cliched adage that 'it's pre-season and they are ahead of us'. Of course they will be ahead in terms of game time, but athletes and genuine professionals would keep their fitness ticking over nicely in anticipation of the new season and first competitive games and they definitely get given instructions to keep fit by the club. The problem on Thursday and the week before wasn't fitness but incredible tactics, incredible selections and down right poor football, lack of pace and lack of sheer desire to win the football back and close them down.

For me it's simple, the players are given an easy time of things, no one really pushes them, and their lives away from the pitch leave a lot to be desired. Not just Hibs players I hasten to add. Hibs have turned into a charitable trust and other teams see that and use it to their advantage. We should have a board of directors and owner who go into Pat's office and demand that the support are entertained and demand that the brand of football changes. Rod is super quick to come out with season ticket pleas - where was his statement to the fans addressing Scottish football's worst ever European defeat ? You could put your mortgage on Brown, Thompson, and Leann Dempster coming out next day and offering not only apologies but assurances that the management and players have been told in no uncertain terms that they have to improve or else. Some would even offer the next game free as a sorry :cb

[Onion]

So him having ambition to kick on this season for Europe again, which would be a good season and how they want to move on from Thursday is a bad thing??? Much prefer that to him saying were going to finish bottom 6 and keep feeling sorry for ourselves because we lost 7-0???

How about something like ...... "now not the time to talk about Europe, we have far more important things to sort out first, like regaining the confidence of the fans who we've let down badly, restoring pride in Hibernian and proving that we are worthy of playing for this great club. Only once we have done that will we be able to start trying to make amends for some of the worst results this club has ever had to suffer."

"Our goal must be to compete at the top end of the SPL this season and for both cups, but this time going one step better than the last 2 years. We owe it to these long suffering fans and everyone else who works so hard behind the scenes at the club."

[ryan cass]

Fenlon should have gone a long time ago, he was found out after 6 games!! and to have a worse record than Colin Calderwood in a season says all. Also when he thought only getting beat 0-3 in a Scottish cup final was a good result….totally unacceptable! It worries me that alot of Hibees still think this guy is the man for the job??? Hibs were (not that long ago) labelled one of the best attacking and ENTERTAINING clubs in the country, now look at us…I know calderwoord has alot to do with the deterioration of the squad but come on….

The only reason i think he's still there is he is Petrie and the other board members puppet, easy to manipulate…a YES man.

The other Hibs legends tht managed the club probably stood up to and disagreed with all Petries non football decisions….Sauzee, Collins, Mixu, Hughes all teated like ***** and deserved more…proper hibees and all wanted what was best for HFC.

[Beefster]

alternatively if. but. maybe.

we should never change the manager because he might not do better in five months time.
it would cost say 50k to sack fenlon then poss 50-100k to sign the next? and how much to sack him in this if but maybe game.

Probably less than we'd gain from being a place or two higher under a decent manager.

It's not just removing Fenlon that threatens to cost Hibs money. Keeping him may be detrimental to prize money and attendances.

[West hamBERNIAN]

I can't see how any of Fenlon, Calderwood, Hughes or Mixu could be portrayed as having not been backed by the board. We've probably signed north of 50, maybe even 60 players in that time.

Yes, when Fenlon came in the squad wasn't great, he shored it up with loans that January. Since the's had 3 windows to build his own squad, and it is now very much his squad. Surely Stevenson and Hanlon are the only ones left from before Pat took over? So I see no argument as to why he needs more time to turn things around, or get his squad together. What other clubs when changing a manager would expect it to take 2 seasons to see an improvement? Are we actually any better than we were under Calderwood? I don't see it. And we certainly didn't get the worryingly regular hammerings that are the hallmark of Pat's tenure.


Thursday night was NOT a one off. It is the latest in a long line of embarrassments. Enough is enough.

well lets look at his team


williams - success
mullen- has talent
forster- looks good
mcpake- we all demanded he was signed
mcgivern- success
harris-success
thomson- brilliant at times
otj- was impressive last year
taiwo- i like him
right mid-??
vine- looks quite good i think
collins? who knows

cant say he's done bad at all signings wise. get them playing and we'll do well and i think he can do it. i could well be wrong but i dont like the idea of hibs paying however much to sack pat and replace him with someone who might sign the likes of brian kerr, mcbride or de graff:agree:

[greenlex]

Fenlon should have gone a long time ago, he was found out after 6 games!! and to have a worse record than Colin Calderwood in a season says all. Also when he thought only getting beat 0-3 in a Scottish cup final was a good result….totally unacceptable! It worries me that alot of Hibees still think this guy is the man for the job??? Hibs were (not that long ago) labelled one of the best attacking and ENTERTAINING clubs in the country, now look at us…I know calderwoord has alot to do with the deterioration of the squad but come on….

The only reason i think he's still there is he is Petrie and the other board members puppet, easy to manipulate…a YES man.

The other Hibs legends tht managed the club probably stood up to and disagreed with all Petries non football decisions….Sauzee, Collins, Mixu, Hughes all teated like ***** and deserved more…proper hibees and all wanted what was best for HFC.
What a load of *****. Mixu and Hughes started the fall and Calderwood almost completee it. To say it was all Calderwoods fault is just bollocks. Every one of the managers bar Sauzee was backed by the board as much and in some cases more than we can afford.We have been on an upward curve since last season.
The only reason he is still here is in the bigger picture there has been progress and sacking managers on a regular basis leads to further deterioration. Things may not be moving fast enough for most but they are moving.

[Treadstone]

Some progress the last three 'competitive' results. :faf:

[greenlex]

Probably less than we'd gain from being a place or two higher under a decent manager.

It's not just removing Fenlon that threatens to cost Hibs money. Keeping him may be detrimental to prize money and attendances.

Starting again with someone new "might" cost us a as much though if not more.

[West hamBERNIAN]

Probably less than we'd gain from being a place or two higher under a decent manager.

It's not just removing Fenlon that threatens to cost Hibs money. Keeping him may be detrimental to prize money and attendances.

if,but and maybe though:wink:
it is a good point. nobody knows how we'll get on in truth though. ppl were raging that we never signed mcmanus and im sure i heard he went off injured the other night.personally i think he deserves time.

[greenlex]

Some progress the last three 'competitive' results. :faf:
We shouldnt be taking the last three competative games and using that as a yardstick when considering his position. (by the way after the 2-0 in Sweden there wasnt much of a clamour for his head) Its stupid to suggest there hasnt been progress and even more stupid to say we have gone backwards under him. Taking us forward may be a different matter but he deserves the chance to see his contract out at least.

[SquashedFrogg]

Probably less than we'd gain from being a place or two higher under a decent manager.

It's not just removing Fenlon that threatens to cost Hibs money. Keeping him may be detrimental to prize money and attendances.

Tried hard to try and let the dust settle before commenting on this. (Gather thoughts, avoid knee jerk reaction etc)

Personally I think his chance has gone. I have no confidence in the guy whatsoever now. He's had a few 'big' games now to prove his worth and has failed miserably.

Even when we started quite well last season points wise, we were riding our luck at times. Leigh's goals and Williams saves won or drew us games we could easily have lost.

I'd be more than comfortable in giving jimmy nicholl the gig, in the short term at least, or possibly briniging in shields.

I don't actually dislike Fenlon but feel we need to move on as I really don't think he has what it takes to take us to where we should be.

Despite all the petrie bashing (some of which I agree with), fenlons been given more than decent resources at an attractive club but can't seem to produce the goods where needed.

[mcfly]

If pat Fenlon only has 10 months of his contract left surely the board will have to decide soon on a replacement!.

If they aren't gonna keep him there will be no more money spent on his choice of players.

After last Thursday I'm sorry but he is the wrong man

[OrdHibby]

Agree with a lot of what you said but also we can't afford to keep sacking managers. Also the two defeats you have mentioned have been against teams with far bigger budgets than ourselves who were set up with strength all the way through the teams, we simply can't afford to match that. Although, the hearts game in particular was a ridiculous performance, they're simply was no passing quality in that team at all and you have to question why that is. I think we have been slowly improving in that sense and before malmo I was feeling quite positive that providing we could bring in a goalscorer and someone with a bit of quality on the right we'd go on to have a good season. I don't think I was alone in thinking this hence a lot of ppl believing we could get a result against a good malmo side.

Maybe we can't afford to but if they're not good enough then thats the only option. How many lax Hibby's do you know that are willing to come back and watch Hibs under Fenlon. He hasn't got a clue. I'd say he's by a country mile the most clueless manager we've ever had and we've had a few stoakers with Duff jim, Hughes and Clueless Colin. He's improve the playing staff but has no management qualities whatsoever.
Ditch him now before Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Motherwell and most of the rest get a head start. A decent manager will have Hibs challenging for 2nd with that squad. All they need is direction.

[West hamBERNIAN]

Maybe we can't afford to but if they're not good enough then thats the only option. How many lax Hibby's do you know that are willing to come back and watch Hibs under Fenlon. He hasn't got a clue. I'd say he's by a country mile the most clueless manager we've ever had and we've had a few stoakers with Duff jim, Hughes and Clueless Colin. He's improve the playing staff but has no management qualities whatsoever.
Ditch him now before Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Motherwell and most of the rest get a head start. A decent manager will have Hibs challenging for 2nd with that squad. All they need is direction.

but surely he has been to the same coarses and has all the knowledge in the game any other manager that will be available? who is the mastermind to replace him? alex miller? be as well, more experienced than anybody else thats in our reach.

[Fergos]

How about something like ...... "now not the time to talk about Europe, we have far more important things to sort out first, like regaining the confidence of the fans who we've let down badly, restoring pride in Hibernian and proving that we are worthy of playing for this great club. Only once we have done that will we be able to start trying to make amends for some of the worst results this club has ever had to suffer."

"Our goal must be to compete at the top end of the SPL this season and for both cups, but this time going one step better than the last 2 years. We owe it to these long suffering fans and everyone else who works so hard behind the scenes at the club."

Agree - or not talking to the media at all......a bit of siege mentality wouldn't be a bad thing at the moment...

Really don't know either way on whether PF should stay or go.....my gut feeling is to give him 3 to 6 games....but I see both points of view.

Worst I've felt I'm 30 odd years of going to ER....I'll never stop going but we really need some consistent payback from the club now, the supporters have done and im quite sure will continue to do their bit.

Thats why it hurts.....

GGTTH

[ryan cass]

What a load of *****. Mixu and Hughes started the fall and Calderwood almost completee it. To say it was all Calderwoods fault is just bollocks. Every one of the managers bar Sauzee was backed by the board as much and in some cases more than we can afford.We have been on an upward curve since last season.
The only reason he is still here is in the bigger picture there has been progress and sacking managers on a regular basis leads to further deterioration. Things may not be moving fast enough for most but they are moving.

Fenlons a dud simple as…he is out his depth!!

[Craig_in_Prague]

but surely he has been to the same coarses and has all the knowledge in the game any other manager that will be available? who is the mastermind to replace him? alex miller? be as well, more experienced than anybody else thats in our reach.

If Pat Fenlon is really the best we can do, just put the lights out and padlock the gates.

[ryan cass]

Maybe we can't afford to but if they're not good enough then thats the only option. How many lax Hibby's do you know that are willing to come back and watch Hibs under Fenlon. He hasn't got a clue. I'd say he's by a country mile the most clueless manager we've ever had and we've had a few stoakers with Duff jim, Hughes and Clueless Colin. He's improve the playing staff but has no management qualities whatsoever.
Ditch him now before Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Motherwell and most of the rest get a head start. A decent manager will have Hibs challenging for 2nd with that squad. All they need is direction.

Get rid of Petrie and the rest will fall into place….the right football decisions being made…the right manger being appointed and no sackings just before AGM's!!

[West hamBERNIAN]

If Pat Fenlon is really the best we can do, just put the lights out and padlock the gates.

thats the spirit. :rolleyes:

i get the sentiment, you want pat out, end of. problem is though the grass ain't always greener on the other side. imagine another colin, he wouldn't even commit himself to hibs when he was **** because he had a chance to be no 2 in the championship. we are slowly improving IMO and i think he deserves to at least see out his contract. before pad it was a rapid decline from bad to worse and some truly horrific players.

[SquashedFrogg]

thats the spirit. :rolleyes:

i get the sentiment, you want pat out, end of. problem is though the grass ain't always greener on the other side. imagine another colin, he wouldn't even commit himself to hibs when he was **** because he had a chance to be no 2 in the championship. we are slowly improving IMO and i think he deserves to at least see out his contract. before pad it was a rapid decline from bad to worse and some truly horrific players.

We may be, but at a much slower rate than our competitors.

This "slow improvement" is seeing us fall further behind.

As for imagining another Colin.... I think we're almost at that stage already. I'm sure Pat would happily commit to another 10 years if he could but that doesn't change the fact that he appears to be slightly out of his depth. As mentioned previously, I actually like the man. I just don't think he's got what it takes for our club.

All IMO of course

[ryan cass]

We may be, but at a much slower rate than our competitors.

This "slow improvement" is seeing us fall further behind.

As for imagining another Colin.... I think we're almost at that stage already. I'm sure Pat would happily commit to another 10 years if he could but that doesn't change the fact that he appears to be slightly out of his depth. As mentioned previously, I actually like the man. I just don't think he's got what it takes for our club.

All IMO of course

Well said Squashed Frog….Malmo wern't a bad side but nor were Liverpool last year when they played Hearts… think the puts all in perspective.. NO FENLON EXCUSES!!!

[Pat 0-7]

Tried hard to try and let the dust settle before commenting on this. (Gather thoughts, avoid knee jerk reaction etc)

Personally I think his chance has gone. I have no confidence in the guy whatsoever now. He's had a few 'big' games now to prove his worth and has failed miserably.

Even when we started quite well last season points wise, we were riding our luck at times. Leigh's goals and Williams saves won or drew us games we could easily have lost.

I'd be more than comfortable in giving jimmy nicholl the gig, in the short term at least, or possibly briniging in shields.

I don't actually dislike Fenlon but feel we need to move on as I really don't think he has what it takes to take us to where we should be.

Despite all the petrie bashing (some of which I agree with), fenlons been given more than decent resources at an attractive club but can't seem to produce the goods where needed.

:agree:

Except I think we should be looking beyond Jimmy Nic or Shiels as next manager............

[SquashedFrogg]

:agree:

Except I think we should be looking beyond Jimmy Nic or Shiels as next manager............

Possibly MB. I'm just thinking in the initial, short term. I have no idea who would be the right man but I just feel we need (everyone at the club that is) a good kick up the arse right now.

Pat's a nice guy and I'm sure a decent 'footballing person' but it's clear (to me anyway) that it's not going to work out at Hibs.

Like I say, 3 big games and we've just bent over and taken it without a whimper. That's what gets me.

[Pat 0-7]

Possibly MB. I'm just thinking in the initial, short term. I have no idea who would be the right man but I just feel we need (everyone at the club that is) a good kick up the arse right now.

Pat's a nice guy and I'm sure a decent 'footballing person' but it's clear (to me anyway) that it's not going to work out at Hibs.

Like I say, 3 big games and we've just bent over and taken it without a whimper. That's what gets me.

Exactly. I can forgive a lot things from a Hibs team but not a lack of fight.......100% busting-a-gut effort should be the minimum we expect.....

[SquashedFrogg]

Well said Squashed Frog….Malmo wern't a bad side but nor were Liverpool last year when they played Hearts… think the puts all in perspective.. NO FENLON EXCUSES!!!

Don't start agreeing with me! You'll end up in trouble lol :wink:

You're right though, at least that lot got stuck in and gave it a go (apart from the 5-0 destruction from spurs :greengrin)

I said after the match on Thurs that it was probably a blessing we didn't go through. Don't get me wrong, I'd have loved to play the Swans home and away (atmosphere, excitement, financial benefit etc) but they would've... Well, I don't even want to think what they'd have done to us... :cb

[ryan cass]

Don't start agreeing with me! You'll end up in trouble lol :wink:

You're right though, at least that lot got stuck in and gave it a go (apart from the 5-0 destruction from spurs :greengrin)

I said after the match on Thurs that it was probably a blessing we didn't go through. Don't get me wrong, I'd have loved to play the Swans home and away (atmosphere, excitement, financial benefit etc) but they would've... Well, I don't even want to think what they'd have done to us... :cb

haha i have to agree again there!! bottom line the guys has brought in his own players and apart from a few havnt delivered…god knows where we would have ended up if we didnt have leigh…we may find out this season if paddy stays.:confused:

[Beefster]

but surely he has been to the same coarses and has all the knowledge in the game any other manager that will be available? who is the mastermind to replace him? alex miller? be as well, more experienced than anybody else thats in our reach.

Being a manager (of anything) isn't just about what you know about the job and having experience. If it was, everything would be run by 60 year olds.

[weonlywon6-2]

:agree:

Except I think we should be looking beyond Jimmy Nic or Shiels as next manager............

Its simple,terry butcher for me

[SquashedFrogg]

haha i have to agree again there!! bottom line the guys has brought in his own players and apart from a few havnt delivered…god knows where we would have ended up if we didnt have leigh…we may find out this season if paddy stays.:confused:

Yes, my posts are very much carefully thought out from now on! :greengrin

Leigh, and for a chunk of the season Williams, definitely saved us from being relegation material I feel.

[SquashedFrogg]

Its simple,terry butcher for me

Wouldn't be too disappointed with that tbh. Although I suspect he is staying in Scotland to eventually go the the Huns. Just a hunch mind.

[Paisley Hibby]

I wonder what those who voted to keep Fenlon will say in 2 weeks time when we have just been horsed by a bunch of kids at Tynecastle. If we don't get rid of him that's what's going to happen.

[greenlex]

Exactly. I can forgive a lot things from a Hibs team but not a lack of fight.......100% busting-a-gut effort should be the minimum we expect.....
Naw I'm not having tat. The Hearts final maybe but not the other two games we are banging on about. We just weren't /aren't good/ready enough. To say there was no effort at Hampden in may or Thursday night is just wrong.

[greenlex]

I wonder what those who voted to keep Fenlon will say in 2 weeks time when we have just been horsed by a bunch of kids at Tynecastle. If we don't get rid of him that's what's going to happen.
I don't know but I know what will be said if we win. Bunch f kids/ anyone could win etc etc. one things for sure Fenlon won't get any credit. It will be down to luck.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I don't know but I know what will be said if we win. Bunch f kids/ anyone old win etc etc. one things for sure afternoon won't get any credit. It will be down to luck.

Eh?

[greenlex]

:hilarious nobody can make any excuses for Pat but you'll certainly give it 'a right good go'. As for the board have faith, I think we can agree that after recent appointments, that doesn't count for very much at all. It just means we will stagnate for a little while longer
We are not stagnating. FFS get a ****ing grip!!!!

[greenlex]

Eh?
Eh? What?:confused:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Eh? What?:confused:

Anyone old win, afternoon won't get any credit, I'm stumped.

[hibsmad]

Naw I'm not having tat. The Hearts final maybe but not the other two games we are banging on about. We just weren't /aren't good/ready enough. To say there was no effort at Hampden in may or Thursday night is just wrong.

Up until the first goal went in on Thursday there was a lot of effort from the players. However that's what made the lack of effort from that point on so glaringly obvious.

Yes we weren't good enough - mostly due to the defence lacking experience/having players out of position/players not fit/players not good enough, but there was also in my opinion a drastic lack of desire to stop us being on the end of an embarrassing score line.

[joe breezy]

Jimmy Nichol as caretaker with immediate effect is not a bad shout

[ScottB]

well lets look at his team


williams - success
mullen- has talent
forster- looks good
mcpake- we all demanded he was signed
mcgivern- success
harris-success
thomson- brilliant at times
otj- was impressive last year
taiwo- i like him
right mid-??
vine- looks quite good i think
collins? who knows

cant say he's done bad at all signings wise. get them playing and we'll do well and i think he can do it. i could well be wrong but i dont like the idea of hibs paying however much to sack pat and replace him with someone who might sign the likes of brian kerr, mcbride or de graff:agree:

His signings seem to be good, but then doesn't that make his inability to get them playing well even worse?