Fenlon has to go (post Malmo)

[macd123]

I would give him another season because changing manager every year hasnt worked. Lets see what reaction we get to this. A test of character for him now and the senior players.

First priority is the defence. We need mcgivern and clancy back, possibly as centre halves. He also needs to resolve the mcpake situation. The guy deserves our respect - he always puts his body on the line but it's not looking good for him.

He then needs to accept we need players with technique to protect the back 4. It's fine having guys who can tackle but not if they can't do anything with it. We will miss claros.

Lastly it's not fair for our only out ball to be a 19 year old boy. Harris will have dips and if teams know he is the only player with pace that we have, he will be heavily marked.

[basehibby]

Terrible result no doubt about it and Fenlon must take most of the blame. The buck doesn't just stop with him though - players have left and signing targets have been missed and the team that took the pitch is a long way short of being competitive in the SPL never mind Europe with the start of the season-proper only a week away! In short there doesn't seem to have been a serious attempt to put out a team that might progress in this competition.

But this is deja vue as I'm struggling to remember the last time a Hibs team took the field in Europe that wasn't severely weakened from the side that got there in the first place and yet to adequately fill the gaps (same could be applied for domestic football most years for that matter).
The result of this has been a lengthy stream of increasingly meek first round exits under a succession of managers.

But the nature of this latest european defeat on top of other big match horsings in his tenure have got to raise questions about Pat's tactical and motivational abilities. Also the fact that three of his recent signings started on the bench makes me wonder if he's spending his kitty wisely enough.

So - my faith in Fenlon's ability to take Hibs forward has taken an absolute blootering tonight and even though I've been a supporter of his and am reticent about sacking yet ANOTHER manager I would not complain if he was given the bullet on the back of this result. Sadly not convinced that would solve the whole problem though.

[JOD]

I have been one of pats staunchest supporters. On reflection it's more because he's a likeable bloke and the fact that we keep changing manager and each one is worse than the last.

Sadly I think he has to go after that. Never been more embarrassed to be a hibs fan.

Nearly 2 years in the job now. Presided over 2 of the wrist results in our history.

I owe an apology to many on here after defending pat for so long.

And those who appoint managers need to consider their position.

Actually felt quite emotional during the minutes applause for a hibs legend. A sad night to be a hibs fan in many ways.

As much as I am hurting I totally agree with your sentiments.

[Purehibee_MYB]

I have also been a supporter of Pat for a long time, and I only think we need to keep hold of him now because getting rid of him a week before the start of the season is just too disruptive and will only do more damage. Not only that but he has now brought in quite a few of his own players, including James Collins apparently who we've paid money for. As much as I now sort of think he should leave, I believe we have to stick with him for at least the first 4 or 5 games of the season to see if he can steady the ship and get some positive results and performances. Just my opinion though.

[spike220]

I have also been a supporter of Pat for a long time, and I only think we need to keep hold of him now because getting rid of him a week before the start of the season is just too disruptive and will only do more damage. Not only that but he has now brought in quite a few of his own players, including James Collins apparently who we've paid money for. As much as I now sort of think he should leave, I believe we have to stick with him for at least the first 4 or 5 games of the season to see if he can steady the ship and get some positive results and performances. Just my opinion though. If the season gets off to flier and the new striker sticks a few goals on hearts and we win 0-3 I will think about forgiving him. I don't think he can be sacked today. At least wait till the week before the AGM. :rolleyes:

[Halifaxhibby]

Alex Ferguson could take over tomorrow and with the team and financial restraints of Scottish football in general and would struggle to compete in europe, tactics, set pieces can be spot on but if your outplayed by a superior team then there is nothing you can do. The manager can be at fault for tactics yes and team selection, but Fenlon has been building a squad to compete in the domestic league and cup competitions. Europe is a financial bonus and a fun ride but who in their right mind thinks the players we have had much of a chance against a hardened experienced and classier team? People can blame the current crop of players all they like but at the end of the day its first of all at its core very much a young team. Harris Handling Forster Mullen to name people under 20 who played a part. Secondly even if you were to sack everyone and start again who are you going to attract who can challenge in Europe? No one, yes the result is appalling as we shouldn't be conceding 7 goals in any game. IMO however the only way to have a chance is to nurture and encourage young talent and sell them on creating more money in order to strengthen. We like everyone in the SPL bar Celtic are incapable of making a mark in Europe (Odd exceptions aside and congratulations to St. Johnstone) because our players cannot raise their game to that level pure and simple, due mainly I believe to the quality of opposition they face on a weekly basis.

Fenlon MUST be questioned should the league campaign begin in diabolical fashion (first 5 games)

Got really annoyed at some folk questioning Harris already though, saying he's not good enough etc, for that level against that quality he is not but he won't improve if we criticize his every mistake.

People want youth rather than wage robbers will have to deal with the inexperience of youth, because if harris could beat three men and cross a ball and make 40 yard passes with ease he would not be here simple, we must IMO obviously, encourage the youth and sell on only then do we have a chance of in future with that money competing in europe.

Utter garbage mate!, u saying drogheda and the Irish league is better???, I guarantee fergie would have a team of fighters on the park regardless of wages, talent etc!!!

[Hibeesmad]

If Fenlon is to go then get rid of him now, get a new manager in before the derby and give him the chance to bring one or two players in before the end of the transfer window.

[Gala Foxes]

Under Fenlon we have had our most embarassing result ever against Hearts & now the heaviest aggregate defeat of a Scottish club (including Gretna & Queen Of The South) in European football.

Not sure where we go from here

[MWHIBBIES]

I was unwell and missed the match last night, just awoke to see the score, holy crap, what the **** happened?

[spike220]

I posted elsewhere he should get half a season but I honestly just don't know anymore, really at a loss. I cannot stand the thought of having to undergo another managerial change but we absolutely should not put up with pure mediocrity. Can't decide if Fenlon has given us all he can or if he would be able to bounce back and enter the new season with a strong set of players and be able to compete.

We are all incredibly gutted tonight but we do have a team of some good players and some promising young ones. I'm extremely worried about whether Fenlon should be the man to carry on with them however. If only it were!

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Questions must be asked at all levels at Easter Road this morning, Petrie won't resign that's for sure but surely Fenlon must do the right thing.

Feel f*****g terrible this morning, just numb.

[BoltonHibee]

Nows not the time for knee jerk reactions

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Nows not the time for knee jerk reactions

I take it that was a tongue in cheek statement aye?

[BoltonHibee]

I take it that was a tongue in cheek statement aye?

Most definately

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Most definately

:thumbsup:

[Springbank]

There is no fear factor at Easter road

The board don't seem to instil standards

As a result we have dropped several levels since 2007

Any man worth his salt would've offered to go

But Hibs appear to offer a comfort zone

Well for me standards are standards, and pat is nowhere near Hibs standard

[Simkin911]

I'm wary about saying 'Fenlon Out' - I'm not entirely convinced we couldn't find another manager to lead the team to another series of embarrassing results. As bad as it is, maybe we need to do a 'Williamson' and let the contract run down. Personally, I can't see us doing much better than 7th place next year anyway (for all the obvious reasons).

[steakbake]

Well ahead of the AGM, what's the mood this morning: should Fenlon stay or go?

[Pretty Boy]

Well ahead of the AGM, what's the mood this morning: should Fenlon stay or go?

I was in the 'on borrowed time' camp last night and said he still had a, short, time to prove himself.

This morning I think i've shifted into the GTF camp.

Very, very angry.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Sorry Pat, I like you but you really have to take the responsibility for last nights farce.

[Alfred E Newman]

I am fortunate to have been on holiday and missed this nadir in the clubs history. I feel sadness more than anger that our club has sunk to this embarrassing level. I have been fortunate to have witnessed many great European nights at Easter Road and to now hold the record for the worst ever defeat by a Scottish Club in Europe is a disgrace and has turned the club into nothing less than a laughing stock.

[Beefster]

We sack Fenlon who in there right mind is going to take the job?

Worst argument for keeping a manager ever. Plenty of better managers would take it.


Much as I enjoyed the fight back, perhaps the Falkirk result has comeback to haunt us. Falkirk tore a very similar defence apart and it sounds the same case tonight. Fenlon was a dead duck at half time in the semi and like the duff Jimmy comeback at Tynie that resulted in eventual relegation, the Falkirk escape looks like costing us dear.

Spot on.

We can want rid of Fenlon all we want but unless Petrie is under pressure or it's going to cos Hibs financially, Fenlon won't be going anywhere (unless he does the honourable thing himself).

[Wyatt.S.Earp]

Petrie has done well in the book keeping department,financially we are OK....but its gone on to long...we are just crap....as a team....Fenlon keeps making excuses...personally I do not think he has what it takes at this level....but in truth with the sad state of Scottish football which is a world embarassment ...would any half decent manager want the job.....? :confused:...the damage done last night will take a long time to repair.......

[PeeJay]

I hope Fenlon resigns today. If he doesn't I'll be even more disappointed than after last night's result. 1-5 to Hearts and now 0-7 at home: how bad does it have to get, before he realises he's in the wrong job?

[Tyler Durden]

He has to go.

I'm shocked there are a number of people still trotting out "Malmo are a good side, we were never going to get a result" etc.

Where was the gameplan? If they were such a good side why didn't we flood midfield or go 5 at the back or try something? But no, similar to the 2012 SCF Fenlon sets us out in an open 442 as if we are simply going to outplay superior opposition. Even at 3/4 nil surely he could change it to limit the damage, but he is not capable.

I do think he had signed some good players albeit he's left us with an unbalanced squad with so many similar midfielders. A good manager could definitely come in and do more with this squad. Unfortunately Fenlon doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes (starting with the same back 4 for example) so I really can't see how anyone can have confidence in him improving.

[TheEastTerrace]

When I attended the LWT forum last summer that Pat spoke at (ironically after another nadir in the club's history) I was quite supportive of him. But I'm afraid this is too far. I listened to the radio last night and turned it off actually questioning whether I'll ever go back. These are sad times to be a Hibby

He must resign

[Pretty Boy]

When I attended the LWT forum last summer that Pat spoke at (ironically after another nadir in the club's history) I was quite supportive of him. But I'm afraid this is too far. I listened to the radio last night and turned it off actually questioning whether I'll ever go back. These are sad times to be a Hibby

He must resign

He sounded like a broken man on the radio last night.

I remember just after Man City beat United 6-1 at Old Traffors. Fergie gave an interview and said that on some days you just have to accept it's not your day and shut up shop to save face. He was furious at his players for not doing so because they had turned a poor result into an embarrassing one for him, them and the fans. He finished by saying that such a result and perfomance was absolutely unacceptable and wouldn't happen again on his watch.

It was bullish, strong and how a manager should react after a result like that. About a million miles away from Fenlon last night who sounded weak and beaten.

[LongshanksED]

I don't think Fenlon should be sacked over last nights performance or walk the plank. Yet.

Sure 0-7 is a sore one to take and he's to blame but he does have a decent managerial record overall (albeit mostly in the Irish league)

Brutal result and defending was nonexistent against a team who technically where levels above us but against a team who's budget is levels above us too. At 0-6 down on aggregate with 60 minutes left to play, who's to say that if they were in that position that they wouldn't be trying their hardest. Yes that lies at the managers feet for being unable to get the team in a frame of mind to at least have professional pride. I'm sure we've all played 5 a side, 8 goals down with 15 minutes still to go and can't be arsed to carry on. We have but has your heart really been in it. Even if you we're a well paid player on the pitch last night would you really have looked forward to coming out on that pitch for the 2nd half?

Hibs get to 5-6 games into the season and have only amassed 4/5/6 points, then yeah, time to cut him loose but one horrific game doesn't make a season. Fenlon has brought in Craig, Vine, Tudor Jones and Collins (if still not confirmed officially anywhere yet bar Wikipedia). The masses have been shouting that we need attacking players. There's 3 in Craig, Vine and Collins. Now after one humping against a vastly greater technical team, who have a budget for those better players, the masses are shouting for defenders. (Agree we do need at least one)
It's not Fenlons time to go yet, but he should be under the spotlight.

[Cabbage East]

He has to go. It's that simple.

[Gettin' Auld]

I've always tried hard to support Fenlon, but no more. Pack your bags and **** off out of our club, and take that tight **** Petrie with you.

You've taken our club to a level that i never thought i'd see at Easter Rd.

We turned up last night and what did we get in return? Yet another kick in the baws. Well i've been kicked there for the last time.

A Lawrie Reilly tribute last night? The management and players should be ****in' ashamed of themselves. If they had a tenth of the guts, passion and ability that he had, we wouldn't be in this mess.

You've brought a new level of embarrassment to our club..........Now git tae ****!!

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I think if you read between the lines when he says " we'll have a look tomorrow and see where it goes from there " speaks volumes in my opinion.

One way ticket to Dublin airport Pat?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23460365

[silverhibee]

Well ahead of the AGM, what's the mood this morning: should Fenlon stay or go?


Hoping he is gone today.

[hibsbollah]

I have no strong feelings either way about Fenlons position. I dont think removing him will make any difference to the underlying problems that started well before his time. Our derby record, Calderwood, Hughes, Mixus tenure, sweeties, the Hearts cup final debacle, the Hearts semi final debacle, Keith Jacksongate, players at Petries door (allegedly), George Street, theres a pattern of embarassment since Mowbray left (and we had our problems then too), that we've all had to take on the chin again and again and again. If the club was being run properly this wouldnt be happening year after year (2007s glorious 5-1 notwithstanding).

Fenlons not the cause.

[Jim44]

I think he will resign today. I've never heard a football manager sound so low as Fenlon did a few minutes ago on Radio Scotland.

[steakbake]

I think he will resign today. I've never heard a football manager sound so low as Fenlon did a few minutes ago on Radio Scotland.

What was he saying?

[Brightside]

He has to go.

I'm shocked there are a number of people still trotting out "Malmo are a good side, we were never going to get a result" etc.

Where was the gameplan? If they were such a good side why didn't we flood midfield or go 5 at the back or try something? But no, similar to the 2012 SCF Fenlon sets us out in an open 442 as if we are simply going to outplay superior opposition. Even at 3/4 nil surely he could change it to limit the damage, but he is not capable.

I do think he had signed some good players albeit he's left us with an unbalanced squad with so many similar midfielders. A good manager could definitely come in and do more with this squad. Unfortunately Fenlon doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes (starting with the same back 4 for example) so I really can't see how anyone can have confidence in him improving.
This is spot on. Playing a 442 last night was beyond stupid. Playing lewis at RB was stupid. Picking Mcpake was stupid. You will struggle to find team playing 442 in Europe. Malmo are much better than us but if the team was set up differently it would have been a lot closer.
The players weren't fit enough and nearly all played out of position. He is simply not a good coach.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I think he will resign today. I've never heard a football manager sound so low as Fenlon did a few minutes ago on Radio Scotland.

Agreed Jim, the interview says it all.

Pity Petrie didn't have the balls to come on the media to explain why he couldn't pick his nose never mind a manager.

[hibspayne]

So yes the result was the worst i have seen as a hibs fan, is Fenlon to blame, potentailly yes however and no i wasnt at the game but i am praying the reason we got ripped apart was we lost 3 goals quickly and we just went attack attack and left us exposed at the back. We were behind before kick off and by half time there was nothing that could of been said in the dressing room to inspire them! so i strongly believe we just went school boy football!!! Embarrased? Yes but should Fenlon go...No as no one else will want the job and we finished last season (in the league) in a good frame of mind so lets not start the season on the back foot and lets see what the first part of the season gives us

Just my thoughts and hopefully some agree :flag:

[3pm]

I think he will resign today. I've never heard a football manager sound so low as Fenlon did a few minutes ago on Radio Scotland.

Is the interview live?! Is it the one that started last night when he was asked where it went wrong?

[H18sry]

I don't think Fenlon should be sacked over last nights performance or walk the plank. Yet.

Sure 0-7 is a sore one to take and he's to blame but he does have a decent managerial record overall (albeit mostly in the Irish league)

Brutal result and defending was nonexistent against a team who technically where levels above us but against a team who's budget is levels above us too. At 0-6 down on aggregate with 60 minutes left to play, who's to say that if they were in that position that they wouldn't be trying their hardest. Yes that lies at the managers feet for being unable to get the team in a frame of mind to at least have professional pride. I'm sure we've all played 5 a side, 8 goals down with 15 minutes still to go and can't be arsed to carry on. We have but has your heart really been in it. Even if you we're a well paid player on the pitch last night would you really have looked forward to coming out on that pitch for the 2nd half?

Hibs get to 5-6 games into the season and have only amassed 4/5/6 points, then yeah, time to cut him loose but one horrific game doesn't make a season. Fenlon has brought in Craig, Vine, Tudor Jones and Collins (if still not confirmed officially anywhere yet bar Wikipedia). The masses have been shouting that we need attacking players. There's 3 in Craig, Vine and Collins. Now after one humping against a vastly greater technical team, who have a budget for those better players, the masses are shouting for defenders. (Agree we do need at least one)
It's not Fenlons time to go yet, but he should be under the spotlight.
It's not just last night tho is it 2 cup final's and 2 Europa cup games 1 goal scored 17 conceded, put out of the League cup by 2nd div QOS, 18 months on inept performances, with the exception of the start of last season,signing players who were not good enough, Kujabi and Kuqi spring straight to mind, how long to we give him? if we give him the first round of fixtures we could be lying 2nd bottom of the league and struggling even more than we are now.

[ScottB]

He sounded like a broken man on the radio last night.

I remember just after Man City beat United 6-1 at Old Traffors. Fergie gave an interview and said that on some days you just have to accept it's not your day and shut up shop to save face. He was furious at his players for not doing so because they had turned a poor result into an embarrassing one for him, them and the fans. He finished by saying that such a result and perfomance was absolutely unacceptable and wouldn't happen again on his watch.

It was bullish, strong and how a manager should react after a result like that. About a million miles away from Fenlon last night who sounded weak and beaten.

That these hammerings keep happening under his watch says it all. When a man like Fergie says 'never again' you believe it, and I bet he terrified those players into making sure it never happened again.

Does anyone believe that's Pat's final horror result (unless he's booted of course?), his record in the 3 big games of his time here stands at 15 - 1 on aggregate.

He seems like a decent, honourable guy. I suspect he'll resign. Lets hope if he does that Rod doesn't do anything daft and refuse to accept!

[Beefster]

So yes the result was the worst i have seen as a hibs fan, is Fenlon to blame, potentailly yes however and no i wasnt at the game but i am praying the reason we got ripped apart was we lost 3 goals quickly and we just went attack attack and left us exposed at the back. We were behind before kick off and by half time there was nothing that could of been said in the dressing room to inspire them! so i strongly believe we just went school boy football!!! Embarrased? Yes but should Fenlon go...No as no one else will want the job and we finished last season (in the league) in a good frame of mind so lets not start the season on the back foot and lets see what the first part of the season gives us

Just my thoughts and hopefully some agree :flag:

The bit in bold is rubbish.

[Jim44]

Is the interview live?! Is it the one that started last night when he was asked where it went wrong?

I think it was probably from last night but I didn't hear it till this morning.

[lochhibs]

the 2 worst results in my lifetime have been witnessed under fenlon.his team selections and tactics leave a lot to be desired.i'd normally try and back the manager because i dont think changing manager every 2 seasons is the way ahead but this is an all time low.its his team now and we looked amatuerish at times last night.hopefully he will do the honourable thing and resign today but i really dont see that happening.and i dont see fenlon as the only 1 that should leave.i think petries time is up.too many of his managerial appointments have failed miserably.

[Sudds_1]

A terrible, humiliating result, and two spineless, unimaginative performances. Malmo are no more than half-decent (I expect Swansea to beat them comfortably) and I think it really calls Pat Fenlon's future into question.

I personally doubt he'll be sacked right now, but I expect the board are already looking for a successor and he'll be fighting for his job every game between now and Christmas. I'm thinking dead man walking.

St.Johnstone, not a great SPL side, defeated a club as least as strong as Malmo.

So this is BAD. There are no redeeming features. A nightmare defensive performance, which, if repeated to any extent on a regular basis, would put us right into the relegation mix, irrespective of who our rivals and what their circumstances are.

yep, my thoughts exactly. No positives there............I actually feel sorry for some of the younger team members thrown into that mess. Some senior players need to have a very good look at themselves this morning.

[hibspayne]

The bit in bold is rubbish.

It might be rubbish to some however if "New Manager" takes the team funds have already been spent that were given to Fenlon and we would need to pay Fenlon out of his contract so any new manager wont be able to make any changes so the team will be the same. The "New manager" would have to work with the current squad which is what delivered yesterdays result with Fenlon giving the instructions. Thats why i dont think anyone else would take it ... but as said its my thoughts and dont usually post much on here i am more a "ninja reader" than poster but the result really hurt me last night and wanted to share my thoughts

:flag:

[Phil MaGlass]

He has to resign.Not good enough.Thank god ah wisnae there tae see it.

[lucky]

Two Scottish cup hammerings and the worst loss in Scottish footballs history in Europe are very difficult to defend. But I voted no to his sacking because I still want to give him more time to build the team. We need a 2 CH, LM, and another CF. with 4 decent signings we will be fine in the SPL.

Williams solid SPL goalie
Clancy/ Mullen at RB
Badly needs CHs
McGiveran

Harris
Craig
Thompson/ tawoi/ Robertson
Need a left Midfielder

Vine
Collins

But I don't think PF will survive a defeat at the PBS

[PapillonVert]

i think a certain cup final result was worse

I disagree. We all know now (well, we did then as well to tell the truth) that that result was bought and the consequences are being felt now somewhere to the west of ER.

[The Harp Awakes]

I have no strong feelings either way about Fenlons position. I dont think removing him will make any difference to the underlying problems that started well before his time. Our derby record, Calderwood, Hughes, Mixus tenure, sweeties, the Hearts cup final debacle, the Hearts semi final debacle, Keith Jacksongate, players at Petries door (allegedly), George Street, theres a pattern of embarassment since Mowbray left (and we had our problems then too), that we've all had to take on the chin again and again and again. If the club was being run properly this wouldnt be happening year after year (2007s glorious 5-1 notwithstanding).

Fenlons not the cause.

Totally agree with this. Fenlon has to carry the can for last night's humiliation but removing him will achieve nothing. You have got to ask yourself is there any manager out there who could bring us success in the current set up? There needs to be a complete overhaul of the Club starting at the very top. Every close season we seem to be rebuilding the team and then find it difficult to encourage players to come to the Club leaving us exposed for the start of the season. Time for some leadership from the Hibs Board as its been lacking for years.

[Onion]

Agreed Jim, the interview says it all.

Pity Petrie didn't have the balls to come on the media to explain why he couldn't pick his nose never mind a manager.

:agree: Exactly. Feel sorry for Fenlon. Not his fault, he's simply out of his depth when the heat is on at club the size of Hibs. He needs to stay in the game but find his proper level again. Petrie on the other hand should be considering his position. 6 years of under-perfomance is unacceptable in any walk of life.

[southsider]

The guys who have come on about the two worst results in our lifetime were spot on and Fenlon has to walk. After the second goal went in last night we were never going to progress so it should have been shut up shop time. If what is basically a pub team in the L O I can resrict them to two whilst we lose NINE including SEVEN at home. It's of the scale guys and Fenlon has made, the once mighty, Hibernian the laughing stock of Europe

[Phil MaGlass]

Funny thing is, some Hibs supporters were ripping hertz fans a new one for not standing up to Vlad and not protesting outside the stadium. After that defeat, I am surprised there wasnt a crowd outside the stadium last night baying for Petries blood, have we turned into ostriches aswell or are we all content to do oor greetin fae behind computers????? Not like Hibs fans no tae grow a pair??

[PeeJay]

I have no strong feelings either way about Fenlons position. I dont think removing him will make any difference to the underlying problems that started well before his time. Our derby record, Calderwood, Hughes, Mixus tenure, sweeties, the Hearts cup final debacle, the Hearts semi final debacle, Keith Jacksongate, players at Petries door (allegedly), George Street, theres a pattern of embarassment since Mowbray left (and we had our problems then too), that we've all had to take on the chin again and again and again. If the club was being run properly this wouldnt be happening year after year (2007s glorious 5-1 notwithstanding).

Fenlons not the cause.

You're spot on about the underlying problems at ER and the club in general - and particularly your comment that the club is not being run properly. Ultimately Petrie and co. choose the managers and they oversee everything that happens at the club, so they should be held accountable. However, Fenlon is responsible for the team and its "performance", and I fail to see how we can keep a manager who was in charge while we were beaten 1-5 in a cup final against Hearts and lost 0-7 at home. I have seen us lose 1-6 in a cup final, to a good team, but I knew my team was better than it played in that game, and another day would come. I don't have that feeling with this lot - I can see double figures around the corner.

[Mac]

You're spot on about the underlying problems at ER and the club in general - and particularly your comment that the club is not being run properly. Ultimately Petrie and co. choose the managers and they oversee everything that happens at the club, so they should be held accountable. However, Fenlon is responsible for the team and its "performance", and I fail to see how we can keep a manager who was in charge while we were beaten 1-5 in a cup final against Hearts and lost 0-7 at home. I have seen us lose 1-6 in a cup final, to a good team, but I knew my team was better than it played in that game, and another day would come. I don't have that feeling with this lot - I can see double figures around the corner.

pretty much spot on!!

Never been one to slag off or call for the managers head but he has now had long enough, brought in his own players and we are still going backwards, he just isnt good enough at this level.

I have said for many years there is something rotten at this club, look at the 'smaller' clubs in this league who constantly achieve more than us and apart from a few good seasons over the years we continue to under achieve, last night was the final straw for me as Fenlon clearly has not got the tactical ability or the ability to fire the team up as they came out like rabbits caught in the headlights, we have enough on paper to be competing at the top end of the league yet under Fenlon/Petrie we will never get there.

I am sure if you asked Fife Hyland or Scott Lyndsey they would give a very interesting insight into why they left.

Fenlon has to do the right thing before we go through another season of crap football and underachievement, if not then we will be back to the crowds that we saw when Williamson was in charge.

[Bobo]

Since early on in his appointment Fenlon has spoken well and made a lot of the right noises but it has been pretty clear that he doesn't have the ability to back them up. He is well out of his depth tactically and hasn't instilled the grit, determination and belief that has been missing for so long in the dressing room and especially out on the pitch.

IMO he has underachieved with the resources at his disposal. League performances and two bottom six finishes, especially last season, aren't acceptable in an SPL as bad as this. He is culpable for some of the worst results in our history, last night and the final debacle against hearts, are just two such results!!

His style of football is insipid and negative offering precious little for supporters to be enthused about, I'm actually surprised crowd levels haven't fallen lower than they have. His players look unfit, slow and disinterested. They are too soft, immobile and seem to lack the basics that any decent manager would have sorted straight away. How long does it take to assemble a reasonably solid back four? It's criminal that he hasn't addressed this as a priority.

The two Scottish cup finals and last nights performance where expectations are dashed within the first 15-20 minutes is evidence enough of his inability as a manager, he hasn't learned anything about formations, playing players out of position or setting his team out to actually attack and dominate matches, especially when playing at home!!

Fenlon has so many failings I could go on and on but would be here for ever so I'll end with a positive ..... he seems to be a genuinely nice guy but that counts for little in football unfortunately so something has to give and it could lead to another spin on the manager merry-go-round for Hibernian FC. :rolleyes:

[Thecat23]

After having a good nights sleep I woke up this morning 100% certain Pat should either walk or be fired. Not only that, far to many piss poor managers are getting hired. If my boss kept bringing in Line managers that just couldn't do the job he's be pulled as its not good enough.

Petrie needs to walk, yeah it's been said by myself before along with others but I'm sick to the back teeth of being humiliated and when we see how big a fan base we have and could get to ER these clowns are are throwing it back in their faces.

We done our part Pat. You called for fans to make it bouncing and hostile. Well it was until your tactics made us a laughing stock over Scotland and Sweden.

[Allant1981]

Im in the minority here but i'd keep him. Apart from playing LS at right back last night i thought the team was set up ok, almost every player in that starting 11 would play in other SPL teams every week. Player are going to play bad now and then, didnt help that we were ripped to bits last night but in reality how often is this going to happen. I was as cheesed off as anyone last night but i would give him the first few months of the season and take it from there

[coldingham hibs]

I was ridiculed and I still am for my Fenlon Out / Buther In thread. Maybe I wasn't far wrong.

I feel totaly numb after last night.

[Expecting Rain]

Pat Fenlon should do the decent thing and resign, he couldn`t possibly turn around and say he`s never had a chance.
Last night just highlighted his lack of ability to turn out a team in any shape or form, he makes a fool of players by constantly playing them out of their natural position, his knowledge of the market is limited to the Irish market, he learns nothing from defeats.
In my opinion he is only here because we were paying off several of our managers at the same time, in any other circumstance he would have been sacked after the derby final.

[Andy74]

So we forget going from real relegation contenders to a team that should have been top six, consecutive cup finals, great last five games, beating Hearts away and going the season unbeaten against them?

I get that last night was shocking but he deserves a chunk of the league campaign.

[Andy74]

Totally agree with this. Fenlon has to carry the can for last night's humiliation but removing him will achieve nothing. You have got to ask yourself is there any manager out there who could bring us success in the current set up? There needs to be a complete overhaul of the Club starting at the very top. Every close season we seem to be rebuilding the team and then find it difficult to encourage players to come to the Club leaving us exposed for the start of the season. Time for some leadership from the Hibs Board as its been lacking for years.

The club is getting an overhaul though. Lets see it out. I don't think we can judge on last night where we will fit in the league.

[Pretty Boy]

So we forget going from real relegation contenders to a team that should have been top six, consecutive cup finals, great last five games, beating Hearts away and going the season unbeaten against them?

I get that last night was shocking but he deserves a chunk of the league campaign.

Ross County went from Division 1 relegation candidates to SPL top 6 in 2 seasons. I'm not sure us going from 11th to 7th in a league starved of any real quality can be used as some kind of mitigation.

[Callum_62]

So we forget going from real relegation contenders to a team that should have been top six, consecutive cup finals, great last five games, beating Hearts away and going the season unbeaten against them?

I get that last night was shocking but he deserves a chunk of the league campaign.

:agree: 100%

[lyonhibs]

So we forget going from real relegation contenders to a team that should have been top six, consecutive cup finals, great last five games, beating Hearts away and going the season unbeaten against them?

I get that last night was shocking but he deserves a chunk of the league campaign.

If one judges success by cup final pumpings, "should/could/might of" hypothesis and not losing to a decimated Hearts team en route to Administration, then yes Fenlon has been a good manager.

He deserves to be sacked, and instanter at that. 0-7 at home should be the death knell for any manager that has been in the job for long enough to bring in his own players etc.

Will Petrie have the stones or Fenlon the good grace to do the right thing? I very much doubt it.

[Heisenberg]

I just cannot change my mind now. He's taken us to two of the worst results in our history. No Hibernian team should ever lie down and take a 7-0 humping at home. They didnt fight and they didnt try. Fenlon is out of his depth.

[Thecat23]

I respect folks opinion saying they want him to stay. But come on, how many times does he play players out of position? Why is Mullen on the bench when fit? He's a proper RB FFS.

Petrie has to carry the can just as much. How many pish appointments we going to take. This lets see what happens never works. We gave Calderwood to long. Get both out for me.

[One Day Soon]

If you've lost me PF then there can be very few still backing you.

Don't want yet another change of manager but can't see that continuing with PF is going to work.

I'll allow for the difference in match fitness since their season is a lot more advanced.

I'll allow for the gulf in class of players individually and in the squads overall.

And allow for the fact that we should'nt have been in Europe this season as a bottom six side just like we should never have been in the Cup Final against Hearts last year.

And allow for the fact that this is still relatively early in the rebuilding of the team/squad over a four year process.

And allow for the fact that Griffiths and Claros arent there.

Despite all that there is no way that we should be getting utterly, utterly thrashed and exposed like that against anyone. A well organised, physically sharp team that is mentally switched on should be losing 3 or 4 goals to nil in a game like that - at most. We could have lost into double figures last night.

Add in that we are still clearly short of at least: a dominant central defender, pace and width, a creative midfielder and a goalscorer.

This isn't working and Pat is the man who is picking the team, deciding the tactics, running training and choosing the new players to sign. On top of that he is the latest in a pretty long line now of managers to not be up to the job. Which says to me that the person picking the managers is also not up to their job (or at least that part of it).

This is a good club that is well supported, has a great stadium and training facilities and a lot of potential. Something is badly amiss here. We just need to see what smaller clubs are achieving with fewer resources to realise that we are punching well under weight.

He'll probably stay of course. I hope that I'm made to eat humble pie over this in a year's time. I doubt it though.

[DarrenSQH]

He has to go for me. Soon as possible. Last night was a disgrace.

[scoopyboy]

After having a good nights sleep I woke up this morning 100% certain Pat should either walk or be fired. Not only that, far to many piss poor managers are getting hired. If my boss kept bringing in Line managers that just couldn't do the job he's be pulled as its not good enough.

Petrie needs to walk, yeah it's been said by myself before along with others but I'm sick to the back teeth of being humiliated and when we see how big a fan base we have and could get to ER these clowns are are throwing it back in their faces.

We done our part Pat. You called for fans to make it bouncing and hostile. Well it was until your tactics made us a laughing stock over Scotland and Sweden.

It's his party mate, until someone buys him and STF out then he won't be doing the walking.

Unfortunately it will be fans that will walk away first, IMO obviously.

[Stevie Reid]

Still totally shell shocked and embarrassed. Pretty torn as I don't necessarily want him to go due to the further turmoil that goes with it, but at the same time, I don't see how we can recover from this - the psychological effect that it will have on both our players and our opposition in the coming weeks will be huge, and the pressure on us in the first two games of the season, should he stay, will be huge.

What an unbelievable disaster, over 16,000 at the game and that happens. I was really optimistic for the new season with the new signings and Jimmy Nicholl's arrival. Now I just feel totally scunnered, and we're only in July.

[Hibby Bairn]

Is he still there?

Cannot believe we haven't sacked him. I mean we have just been beaten 7-0 at home.

Utter humiliation and we keep faith with our manager. I really cannot understand it.

[BigKev]

Was Fenlon not a Scott Lyndsay appointment?

[Heisenberg]

Was Fenlon not a Scott Lyndsay appointment?

Aye. I'm sure the two who supposedly appointed him were then emptied later on!

[sadtom]

Fenlon is so far out his depth he needs a drainpipe for a snorkel.
Cant coach, organise, motivate or shape a team.
Tactically dreadful, cant see whats in front of his eyes and make appropriate changes during a game. Substitutions are either baffling or ineffective. While signings have been generally poor.
He brings NOTHING to the party. Go NOW!

[J-C]

Fenlon is so far out his depth he needs a drainpipe for a snorkel.
Cant coach, organise, motivate or shape a team.
Tactically dreadful, cant see whats in front of his eyes and make appropriate changes during a game. Substitutions are either baffling or ineffective. While signings have been generally poor.
He brings NOTHING to the party. Go NOW!

Watch what you say there, I mentioned this a few times in certain threads and got knocked down for my views, peeps saying he's the manager and should know better than me how to coach etc.

[OrdHibby]

Do we really need a poll for this. Surely anyone with the slightest bit of sense knows this guy has to go.

If he's still here tomorrow the harm it will cause is unthinkable.

We have some decent players but players need direction, motivation, guidance, cohesion all sadly lacking under his management and under Hughes and Calderwood.
The problem we have, is a board who know sweet fa about football and the reasons people come to watch football.

Lets loosen the purse strings and bring in a whole new coaching team from a country who has been failing and decided to change their ways i.e Germany/Spain. For a good few years they were falling by the way side and decided to revamp their game. Thats what we need. Imagine a team not scared to attack. If only.

[SlickShoes]

I don't think he should be sacked unless all of the people that have employed every manager we have had since McLeish are shown the door as well. We have been utterly ***** apart from the lucky Tony Mowbray period which leaked in to the start of the Collins era. Every other appointment has been dire.

If we get rid of Pat now, we will only replace him with someone of equal ability or even worse under the current regime.

There is something fundamentally wrong with hibs, we have a nice stadium/training ground and fantastic history but we have no soul. We are a shell of the club we used to be, the fans are still there but most of them won't be rushing back after last night.

[Leishy1995]

I'm sure Petrie isn't involved in picking managers anymore, we heard that last time did we not?

His job is to get us making cash. He was doing rather well.

[Pat 0-7]

I cant see any way back for Fenlon now. I've given him the benefit of the doubt for a while, but its obvious that he cant get the best out of individual players, cant motivate a team and is tactically inept. Aye, the players were crap but the buck stops with him as far as the playing side goes.

If he doesnt go now he will be away in a few months because we are not magically going to improve (unless Collins is a miracle worker and can create and score goals himself like LG did last season, which IMO kept PF in the job).

I said to my kids at half-time last night that the manager will now take off a striker, bring on another midfielder (OTJ?) and shut up shop to try for some damage limitation as the tie was over and we had next to no chance of scoring anyway (that maybe should have happened at 0-2 though).

And what happens? Same 442 as he started with and we lose another 3 goals.

Malmo are a good team but not great. The St J result, plus the fact that a part-time Irish side did better against Malmo than we did, speaks volumes IMO.

We were a few seats away from Kano and Jackie Mac - their faces said it all about this current team.......

[bigwheel]

I'm sure Petrie isn't involved in picking managers anymore, we heard that last time did we not?

His job is to get us making cash. He was doing rather well.

No he isn't...we made a loss in our last published accounts....

[Beefster]

Ross County went from Division 1 relegation candidates to SPL top 6 in 2 seasons. I'm not sure us going from 11th to 7th in a league starved of any real quality can be used as some kind of mitigation.

You're being a bit harsh there, PB. The goal difference in this year's cup final was one better than last year's and we tried really really hard.

[YehButNoBut]

The manager's role is the most vital in any side. Even Barcelona, with the quality of player they have, struggled when Tito was away for treatment and got hammered by Bayern.

We need someone who can organise & motivate them better than Pat can & the players have to believe in him.

I can't think there will be any belief from the players after last night, unfortunately he's finished after last night, but who can we get to take us forward, it's a big ask.

[Thecat23]

I respect folks opinion saying they want him to stay. But come on, how many times does he play players out of position? Why is Mullen on the bench when fit? He's a proper RB FFS.

Petrie has to carry the can just as much. How many pish appointments we going to take. This lets see what happens never works. We gave Calderwood to long. Get both out for me.

[Andy74]

I respect folks opinion saying they want him to stay. But come on, how many times does he play players out of position? Why is Mullen on the bench when fit? He's a proper RB FFS.

Petrie has to carry the can just as much. How many pish appointments we going to take. This lets see what happens never works. We gave Calderwood to long. Get both out for me.

Mullen has been injured himself and not played or trained much. I suspect with Foster already in there and Hanlon out of position along with Handling and Harris in the team he was looking for the experience from Stevenson.

As I have said on the PM board if I'd never want to play a game against anyone without McPake, McGivern and Clancy all being fit and well. Going against a team that were so quick and technical and also in full flow was difficult. That type of collapse in the ciurcumstances is what you get.

We really need a top centre half, maybe two.

[Since90+2]

Tam McCourt out! Fenlon out! Petrie out! Hanlon out! Stevenson out! Everyone out!

I mean, imagine getting humped by the team top of a league miles above the SPL's standard, half way into their season?

Why don't we just fold, no point in continuing.

Stop slavering.

[Hibby Bairn]

Is he still there?

Cannot believe we haven't sacked him. I mean we have just been beaten 7-0 at home.

Utter humiliation and we keep faith with our manager. I really cannot understand it.

[Leishy1995]

No he isn't...we made a loss in our last published accounts....

From 2002 till about 2009?

[Andy74]

Is he still there?

Cannot believe we haven't sacked him. I mean we have just been beaten 7-0 at home.

Utter humiliation and we keep faith with our manager. I really cannot understand it.

I don't think these are types of decisions to make after one match, and not one during what is effectively the pre season.

We ended last season well, we have progressed as a club, the stuff behind the scenes is all being rebuilt the right way. Last night was horrendous, of course it was, other results have been horrendous too.

I think the main focus should be on how Scottish football in general has reached this point. In a European sense Malmo are nothing but, allowing for the fact they are at full fitness and have had a chance to put their squad toghether in good time, that was still a performance we haven't seen the likes of for some time at ER, and won't again any time soon from a visting side.

Anyone denying that and focusing just on Hibs is missing some of the point. They were quick, incisive, clinical, technically miles ahead of anyone we normally play, and also everything went in for them last night. Our kids lloked very much like kids and ther likes of Harris and Handling lloked slow and lacking in ability compared.

[OrdHibby]

I cant see any way back for Fenlon now. I've given him the benefit of the doubt for a while, but its obvious that he cant get the best out of individual players, cant motivate a team and is tactically inept. Aye, the players were crap but the buck stops with him as far as the playing side goes.

If he doesnt go now he will be away in a few months because we are not magically going to improve (unless Collins is a miracle worker and can create and score goals himself like LG did last season, which IMO kept PF in the job).

I said to my kids at half-time last night that the manager will now take off a striker, bring on another midfielder (OTJ?) and shut up shop to try for some damage limitation as the tie was over and we had next to no chance of scoring anyway (that maybe should have happened at 0-2 though).

And what happens? Same 442 as he started with and we lose another 3 goals.

Malmo are a good team but not great. The St J result, plus the fact that a part-time Irish side did better against Malmo than we did, speaks volumes IMO.

We were a few seats away from Kano and Jackie Mac - their faces said it all about this current team.......

I've highlighted the problem, he puts out individuals but doesn't put out a team. Some individuals will bring others into the game and we'll see some moves, passes etc but there are others who aren't good enough and without any shape or cohesion or proper coaching we're just a team of individuals relying on the odd few players to make us tick. Claros was one of those players and without him and Griffiths last season its scary thinking where we could have finished.
We need a proper coach who sets up a team, not puts out 11 individuals and expects them to gel. Thats why our football is stop start or HOOF

[Baldy Foghorn]

From 2002 till about 2009?

When we had players with sellable values to keep figures up, that helped the bottom line......We have no-one that would demand a high sell on fee these days unfortunately.....

[Hibsred]

Very rarely post but have to vent!

For those who use the Managerial merry-go-round argument, the "who else then" or who still beleive he should be allowed to develop whatever strategy they believe he has in place, sorry not having it.

Even with Hibs' track record of Managers, the facts are this is up there with appointment that just hasn't worked, and to me nothing suggests it will work. And by "work" I don't mean winning the league or even cups, I mean building a level of reasonable consistency/mentality where fans will know something like last night (or that cup final) would never ever happen on our Manager's watch.

I don't dislike the guy but without going into how long I've thought we should cut him loose, if he now has any respect for the the fans and club he'll say his goodbyes. If not, then the club should show the same respect and take some action.

[Keith_M]

Keep giving him another chance, that was my mantra up until today.

But, how many more humiliations is it possible to take?

[Makaveli]

I don't think these are types of decisions to make after one match, and not one during what is effectively the pre season.

We ended last season well, we have progressed as a club, the stuff behind the scenes is all being rebuilt the right way. Last night was horrendous, of course it was, other results have been horrendous too.

I think the main focus should be on how Scottish football in general has reached this point. In a European sense Malmo are nothing but, allowing for the fact they are at full fitness and have had a chance to put their squad toghether in good time, that was still a performance we haven't seen the likes of for some time at ER, and won't again any time soon from a visting side.

Anyone denying that and focusing just on Hibs is missing some of the point. They were quick, incisive, clinical, technically miles ahead of anyone we normally play, and also everything went in for them last night. Our kids lloked very much like kids and ther likes of Harris and Handling lloked slow and lacking in ability compared.

What an utterly invalid thing to say.

A Scottish club with a fraction of our budget defeated comparable opposition last night.

They did so with two of our cast-offs (Cregg and Wotherspoon). Meanwhile, we capitulated with two of their best players from last year (Craig and Vine).

[OrdHibby]

I don't think these are types of decisions to make after one match, and not one during what is effectively the pre season.

We ended last season well, we have progressed as a club, the stuff behind the scenes is all being rebuilt the right way. Last night was horrendous, of course it was, other results have been horrendous too.

I think the main focus should be on how Scottish football in general has reached this point. In a European sense Malmo are nothing but, allowing for the fact they are at full fitness and have had a chance to put their squad toghether in good time, that was still a performance we haven't seen the likes of for some time at ER, and won't again any time soon from a visting side.

Anyone denying that and focusing just on Hibs is missing some of the point. They were quick, incisive, clinical, technically miles ahead of anyone we normally play, and also everything went in for them last night. Our kids lloked very much like kids and ther likes of Harris and Handling lloked slow and lacking in ability compared.

We ended last season on a whimper. He couldn't get the team up for a cup final 2 years running and now can't get us up for european games. I suppose St Johnstone got lucky. Even if they did i bet they looked like a football team and were up for the fight.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Tam McCourt out! Fenlon out! Petrie out! Hanlon out! Stevenson out! Everyone out!

I mean, imagine getting humped by the team top of a league miles above the SPL's standard, half way into their season?

Why don't we just fold, no point in continuing.

It's one thing getting "humped" (say 3-0 or 4-0), if the players have given a reasonable effort and the tactics and selection made some sort of sense, but they've just been outplayed on the day by superior opponents. It's a different thing entirely to capitulate 7-0.


Is he still there?

Cannot believe we haven't sacked him. I mean we have just been beaten 7-0 at home.

Utter humiliation and we keep faith with our manager. I really cannot understand it.

The only defence I can offer to this is that last night's result and performance will have completely wrongfooted the club. They are about to spend a substantial transfer fee (by today's standards), an obvious sign of backing a manager. At the very least there has to be some sort of public accounting for what happened and steps taken to improve the club.

[greenlex]

I don't think these are types of decisions to make after one match, and not one during what is effectively the pre season.

We ended last season well, we have progressed as a club, the stuff behind the scenes is all being rebuilt the right way. Last night was horrendous, of course it was, other results have been horrendous too.

I think the main focus should be on how Scottish football in general has reached this point. In a European sense Malmo are nothing but, allowing for the fact they are at full fitness and have had a chance to put their squad toghether in good time, that was still a performance we haven't seen the likes of for some time at ER, and won't again any time soon from a visting side.

Anyone denying that and focusing just on Hibs is missing some of the point. They were quick, incisive, clinical, technically miles ahead of anyone we normally play, and also everything went in for them last night. Our kids lloked very much like kids and ther likes of Harris and Handling lloked slow and lacking in ability compared.
This 100%
Somehow though sacking the manager who is whether folks like it or not has made a huge difference in his time here. Imagine what would have happened to Calderwoods or even Hughes' side last night? Rome wasnt built in a day or a couple of seasons for that matter.

PS they didnt find the target with a couple of shots.

[PatHead]

I voted for him to go. The first time I have felt that way. He has moved us a little bit forward but he is extremely limited in his ability. A bottom 6 finish coupled with that performance means he has failed. Being a nice guy isn't a good enough reason for him to stay.

[Since90+2]

What an utterly invalid thing to say.

A Scottish club with a fraction of our budget defeated comparable opposition last night.

They did so with two of our cast-offs (Cregg and Wotherspoon). Meanwhile, we capitulated with two of their best players from last year (Craig and Vine).

Exactly. :top marks

[Since90+2]

This 100%
Somehow though sacking the manager who is whether folks like it or not has made a huge difference in his time here. Imagine what would have happened to Calderwoods or even Hughes' side last night? Rome wasnt built in a day or a couple of seasons for that matter.

PS they didnt find the target with a couple of shots.

How has he made a huge difference?

Under him we finished 7th last season and last night suffered probably the worst defeat in the clubs entire history. Where is the huge difference?

[blackpoolhibs]

Fenlon in my opinion should either walk or be sacked. He showed last night he's clearly no idea how to set a team up, with so many players played out of position and playing a formation against an experienced European club that went out with the ark.

A back 4 for a start of Forster at right back McPake and Hanlon in the middle and Stevenson on the left would have been much more sensible, just the one player out of position, although he has played right back before and is right footed.

5 in midfield with vine up front, supported by the 2 wide men and Craig when given the opportunity. I'm not saying this with hindsight, i said the exact same thing on the team lineup for Malmo thread.

Having only 4 in midfield was suicide, and they ripped through it like a hot knife through butter. :rolleyes:

Now if an idiot like me can see this, surely someone who has managed at the level Fenlon has can too, but apparently he couldn't?

We'd still have lost, but again Pat Fenlon has contributed along with the players, players he's brought to the club (his team) to the biggest embarrassment in my time watching Hibernian Football Club.

[Keith_M]

Somehow though sacking the manager who is whether folks like it or not has made a huge difference in his time here. Imagine what would have happened to Calderwoods or even Hughes' side last night? Rome wasnt built in a day or a couple of seasons for that matter.


Seriously, what HUGE DIFFERENCE has he made in the time he's been here? I'm truly baffled by that statement.


He's now been in charge for the two biggest humiliations in the history of our club. He also was in charge during a second cup Final where his team were never at the races. His team have never finished in the top half of the table, despite last season having no Rangers and, effectively, a disabled Hearts

[Bishop Hibee]

I voted for him to go. The first time I have felt that way. He has moved us a little bit forward but he is extremely limited in his ability. A bottom 6 finish coupled with that performance means he has failed. Being a nice guy isn't a good enough reason for him to stay.

Same K. We need someone else to take us forward. Also Petrie should have stepped down after that final and should hand over the reins to a new Chairman. No chance of either happening though. We'll limp on through the first round of fixtures and if we are near the bottom Fenlon will be sacked.

[hibsmad]

Have to say that I now want Pat to go. I can think of far more reasons why he deserves to go than I can think of reasons why he deserves more time. They have pretty much all been mentioned above so no point in repeating them.

The question is, do people think there is a realistic chance that he will be sacked/resign?

I personally think it could hinge on whether Collins has signed or not. If Pat has brought in his man for 200k then I can't see Petrie wanting to get rid of him. However if the Collins deal isn't 100% finalised then Rod may decide that he needs to change now before he allows what money is available to be spent.

[Thecat23]

This 100%
Somehow though sacking the manager who is whether folks like it or not has made a huge difference in his time here. Imagine what would have happened to Calderwoods or even Hughes' side last night? Rome wasnt built in a day or a couple of seasons for that matter.

PS they didnt find the target with a couple of shots.

Lex you can't say Malmo would take more off us with Yogi in charge or CC. They might set up totally different so that point means nothing at all.

The lack of football that we play and lack of pace is laughable. We don't need to stick with him just because others have been sacked before. As for this it's a one off result couple of folk are saying, no it's not. 1-5 in a Scottish cup final is a joke. Fenlon is a great guy, cares about the club that I have no doubt. But he's not got it. His record speaks for itself.

I hope he resigns today. He won't though but I personally don't want to watch Hibs under him.

[GreenOnions]

So we forget going from real relegation contenders to a team that should have been top six, consecutive cup finals, great last five games, beating Hearts away and going the season unbeaten against them?

I get that last night was shocking but he deserves a chunk of the league campaign.

I totally agree. Awful result but we have to be rational here. Pat is still in the process of re-building from the shambles he inherited.

That may seem ridiculous but think about a couple of things:

Pat has been trying to bring in a commanding centre-half during the summer. When I found out about that I was absolutely delighted and said so on here. I was surprised to find that I was in the minority in supporting that idea. It seemed to me that most .netters felt that our defence was okay and that it was the last area of the team that required strengthening. I found that almost incredible but it's all about opinions isn't it? Now - after last night - everyone is lamenting our defensive performance. Could it be the case that Pat Fenlon does actually have a better idea than everyone on here about what the team needs and that it just takes time to bring in quality?

It's not just a first 11 that Pat has had to build. Last night we had injuries to Clancy, McPake and McGivern leaving two youngsters with only a handful of games under their belt, a part-time full-back and Paul Hanlon to deal with a team like Malmo. He has had to replace pretty much everyone in the squad and reverse several years of severe decay.

I agree that it is alarming to say the least that, when we have a bad day, we have an absolutely atrocious day. That's something that Pat really needs to sort out.

However, although I appreciate that Pat will now be under incredible scrutiny, anyone who undertsands the sheer scale of the task he took on when he was appointed will see that he has moved Hibs forward significantly since he joined.

It's hard to see positives just now as a Hibs fan. However - I do think there are quite a few. Hopefully though we can all now agree with Pat that we need to strengthen the defence!

[ekhibee]

Blind optimism :greengrin

Tonight was absolute dross but i thought they were a good team that had played together much longer than we had. The new signings struggled to link up play tonight and i'm putting that down to their lack of time playing together.

if we get beat from motherwell and hearts then I'll start asking questions.

I take your point to a certain extent, but remember they came into the Europa Cup at an even earlier stage than us, so they really didn't have that great a season last season, even if they did qualify for Europe, and they struggled against the mighty Drogheda too. Maybe they strengthened up in their close season. They're only two points behind Helsingsborg in the Swedish top league so obviously they are a decent outfit, but I do agree that Swansea will beat them easily, I would tend to think that it wasn't just a case of them being good at Easter Road, it was also a case of Hibs being totally rank, and it couldn't have come at a worse time, only minutes after celebrating the life of one of the true greats of Hibs and Scottish football.

[Beefster]

I don't think these are types of decisions to make after one match, and not one during what is effectively the pre season.

We ended last season well, we have progressed as a club, the stuff behind the scenes is all being rebuilt the right way. Last night was horrendous, of course it was, other results have been horrendous too.

I think the main focus should be on how Scottish football in general has reached this point. In a European sense Malmo are nothing but, allowing for the fact they are at full fitness and have had a chance to put their squad toghether in good time, that was still a performance we haven't seen the likes of for some time at ER, and won't again any time soon from a visting side.

Anyone denying that and focusing just on Hibs is missing some of the point. They were quick, incisive, clinical, technically miles ahead of anyone we normally play, and also everything went in for them last night. Our kids lloked very much like kids and ther likes of Harris and Handling lloked slow and lacking in ability compared.

The bit in bold is the debating equivalent of your neighbour shouting "look over here at the size of this daisy" whilst your house is burning down.

St Johnstone just put Rosenborg of the same competition. Drogheda managed to hold Malmo to two goals. At this moment in time, we need to look at why Hibs, with the second or third biggest budget in the SPL, just achieved the worst European result in Scottish footballing history.

[Brightside]

Fenlon in my opinion should either walk or be sacked. He showed last night he's clearly no idea how to set a team up, with so many players played out of position and playing a formation against an experienced European club that went out with the ark.

A back 4 for a start of Forster at right back McPake and Hanlon in the middle and Stevenson on the left would have been much more sensible, just the one player out of position, although he has played right back before and is right footed.

5 in midfield with vine up front, supported by the 2 wide men and Craig when given the opportunity. I'm not saying this with hindsight, i said the exact same thing on the team lineup for Malmo thread.

Having only 4 in midfield was suicide, and they ripped through it like a hot knife through butter. :rolleyes:

Now if an idiot like me can see this, surely someone who has managed at the level Fenlon has can too, but apparently he couldn't?

We'd still have lost, but again Pat Fenlon has contributed along with the players, players he's brought to the club (his team) to the biggest embarrassment in my time watching Hibernian Football Club.

Agree 100% BH. I still cant fathom why he would play 442, and play so many players out of position again. How can he not learn from the first game. I dont actually want to slate the players (well except the obv injured one) they are being hung out to dry by an amatuer.

[Makaveli]

I totally agree. Awful result but we have to be rational here. Pat is still in the process of re-building from the shambles he inherited.

That may seem ridiculous but think about a couple of things:

Pat has been trying to bring in a commanding centre-half during the summer. When I found out about that I was absolutely delighted and said so on here. I was surprised to find that I was in the minority in supporting that idea. It seemed to me that most .netters felt that our defence was okay and that it was the last area of the team that required strengthening. I found that almost incredible but it's all about opinions isn't it? Now - after last night - everyone is lamenting our defensive performance. Could it be the case that Pat Fenlon does actually have a better idea than everyone on here about what the team needs and that it just takes time to bring in quality?

It's not just a first 11 that Pat has had to build. Last night we had injuries to Clancy, McPake and McGivern leaving two youngsters with only a handful of games under their belt, a part-time full-back and Paul Hanlon to deal with a team like Malmo. He has had to replace pretty much everyone in the squad and reverse several years of severe decay.

I agree that it is alarming to say the least that, when we have a bad day, we have an absolutely atrocious day. That's something that Pat really needs to sort out.

However, although I appreciate that Pat will now be under incredible scrutiny, anyone who undertsands the sheer scale of the task he took on when he was appointed will see that he has moved Hibs forward significantly since he joined.

It's hard to see positives just now as a Hibs fan. However - I do think there are quite a few. Hopefully though we can all now agree with Pat that we need to strengthen the defence!

It seems ridiculous because it is. Fenlon inherited TWO of the FOURTEEN players involved last night (Hanlon and Stevenson).

12 of the 14 have made their debut during his tenure — 8 that he signed and 4 from the youth set-up.

When does it start counting as his team?

[Andy74]

The bit in bold is the debating equivalent of your neighbour shouting "look over here at the size of this daisy" whilst your house is burning down.

St Johnstone just put Rosenborg of the same competition. Drogheda managed to hold Malmo to two goals. At this moment in time, we need to look at why Hibs, with the second or third biggest budget in the SPL, just achieved the worst European result in Scottish footballing history.

Drogheda are also well into their season which is kind of my point.

The St Johnstone result was a great one. I've no idea how they would compare to Malmo though.

[southsider]

How can i team like Malmo, who are not in any way a big club, attract the class and pace of the players they had on show. Whilst we go plol, slow, plod plod, slow, high ball into the goalies hands. Even Collins who by all accounts is "not the quickest", is going to struggle without the proper service. We all saw last night what pace can do. If the Collins deal has not been done i would pull the plug, sign Andy Webster and try to get a couple of players in with real pace.

[PeeJay]

I don't think these are types of decisions to make after one match, and not one during what is effectively the pre season.

We ended last season well, we have progressed as a club, the stuff behind the scenes is all being rebuilt the right way. Last night was horrendous, of course it was, other results have been horrendous too.



Except it isn't one match, is it? - There's the semi-final (1st half), the two SC finals and the failure to make the top 6 when one of the OF is missing! Saying we finished the season well is simply ridiculous: we played bottom 6 teams - against the top 6 teams we failed miserably. As to beating Hearts in their current state, big deal. Progress - you have to be joking. I didn't see any semblance of a football team in green and white last night, that was actually following any "game plan", at any time (unless it happened during the first 20 minutes when the stream wasn't working for me...":greengrin?

[The Voice Of Reason]

I have no strong feelings either way about Fenlons position. I dont think removing him will make any difference to the underlying problems that started well before his time. Our derby record, Calderwood, Hughes, Mixus tenure, sweeties, the Hearts cup final debacle, the Hearts semi final debacle, Keith Jacksongate, players at Petries door (allegedly), George Street, theres a pattern of embarassment since Mowbray left (and we had our problems then too), that we've all had to take on the chin again and again and again. If the club was being run properly this wouldnt be happening year after year (2007s glorious 5-1 notwithstanding).

Fenlons not the cause.

You previously said you were "still behind Fenlon".

You are entitled to your opinion of course.....but i ASK YOU AGAIN, on what basis are you still behnd him!?

1. We finished in the bottom 6 last year (behind the likes of Ross Co, St J, M'Well and in a league without Rangers and effectively Hearts)
2. Our football is dreadful under Fenlon
3. He signed Kuqi and Kujabi FFS
4. We have just been humped 7-0 at home to Malmo (and it was 7-0 going on 10-0 by the way!!)
5. We still have no pace in the team
6. We still look really unfit
7. St Johnstone have just beaten Rosenburg - that is surely a fair benchmark for us and Fenlon, no ???

So in the "game that matters" AS YOU SAY against Motherwell, if we lose (as I expect us to) will your stance change ?!?

I know that we can't keep sacking managers, but when is "enough enough" as far as Pat is concerned ?!?!?

[Keith_M]

Drogheda are also well into their season which is kind of my point.

The St Johnstone result was a great one. I've no idea how they would compare to Malmo though.


Are you SERIOUSLY defending a 9-0 aggregate humiliation on the basis of us not being into our season yet? Drogheda conceded SEVEN less goals than us, but it's OK because they're actually during their season?

[blackpoolhibs]

Drogheda are also well into their season which is kind of my point.

The St Johnstone result was a great one. I've no idea how they would compare to Malmo though.

St Johnstone won through with Wotherspoon and Cregg in their team, two players nowhere near good enough for us, while we had two of their players, players they wanted to keep.

I'd have bet every penny i own they would not have gone through if Fenlon was in charge of them.

I feel sick this morning, to the pit of my stomach.

[Since90+2]

Anyone who was at the first leg will be able to tell you Stevenson got absolutely torn to shreds playing at right back.

What was Fenlon doing playing him their again? The first goal was down to him getting torn ripped again (and its not Stevenson's fault , he is a left footed central midfielder getting played at right back).

[Andy74]

St Johnstone won through with Wotherspoon and Cregg in their team, two players nowhere near good enough for us, while we had two of their players, players they wanted to keep.

I'd have bet every penny i own they would not have gone through if Fenlon was in charge of them.

I feel sick this morning, to the pit of my stomach.

Maybe it shows Rosenborg weren't very good whilst Malmo were, on the night at least? Cregg and Wotherspoon were poor long before Fenlon was here and I doubt Fenlon could ruin Vine and Craig over two games!

[The Voice Of Reason]

Drogheda are also well into their season which is kind of my point.

The St Johnstone result was a great one. I've no idea how they would compare to Malmo though.


Andrew.

With respect mate, I remember you backing Edwin De Graaf right until the bitter end, when it was clear to everyone (David Blunkett and Stevie Wonder included) that the guy was a useless goon who was well past his sell by date (where is he now by the way ?!?!?)

Anyway, back to current matters, it is therefore no surprise that you are still backing Fenlon, despite the :-

1. Lack of progress
2. Lack of decent tactics
3. Lack of pace in the team (still!)
4. Lack of leadership in the team (still!)
5. Lack of a decent brand of football (slow, pedestrian than a "hoof")
6. Fact that we are now a laughing stock and being riculed throughout Scotland

So you carry on and continue to back him my friend...........you must enjoy pain and suffering though !

:ostrich: :crazy:

[Beefster]

Drogheda are also well into their season which is kind of my point.

The St Johnstone result was a great one. I've no idea how they would compare to Malmo though.

Drogheda are also part-time, 8th in the LoI top division and have a capacity of 2000. The fact that they've played a few games more in a row doesn't mean much IMHO.

[hibsmad]

How can i team like Malmo, who are not in any way a big club, attract the class and pace of the players they had on show. Whilst we go plol, slow, plod plod, slow, high ball into the goalies hands. Even Collins who by all accounts is "not the quickest", is going to struggle without the proper service. We all saw last night what pace can do. If the Collins deal has not been done i would pull the plug, sign Andy Webster and try to get a couple of players in with real pace.

This is not just an issue with Hibs but is rather a far bigger problem with British football. I'm pretty sure our side were all made up last night of Brits and it showed that we were badly lacking any flair or composure (please come back Jorge). Unfortunately in this country to many parents are more interested in seeing their kids winning at football when they are growing up, rather than seeing them develop. The technical difference is frightening.

This is another worry I have regarding Pat. He seems completely unable to take any kind of advantage of the foreign market. Yes I know he signed Claros, but as I understand it he was brought over by Rangers and then we were made aware of his availability after the **** hit the fan with them. With this in mind it seems like the best that we can ever hope for under Fenlon is a decent side full of guys who will work and be steady. I want to go to matches and at least be thrilled every now and again with skill, flair and technique.

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe it shows Rosenborg weren't very good whilst Malmo were, on the night at least? Cregg and Wotherspoon were poor long before Fenlon was here and I doubt Fenlon could ruin Vine and Craig over two games!

Malmo were good, but were given a huge help by our master tactician.

[Thecat23]

It's sad that after suffering Scotland's worst European defeat, a 1-5 Scottish cup final defeat to your biggest rivals, a shocking performance in the 0-3 defeat to Celtic where Celtic didnt come out 2nd gear, folk STILL think he's the right man. What I have noticed its the same folk who wanted CC to have more time. Sometimes you guys have to realize time isn't the answer, taking action and getting the right manager is the answer, for to long we have picked shockers.

We got beat 0-7 if this was a one off in terms of displays I'd be gutted and hope we could pass it. Pat himself has said he's struggling with this. I've came off the phone to a player this morning and I'll tell you what, after what he's saying I'd be surprised if he's here for the well game.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Are you SERIOUSLY defending a 9-0 aggregate humiliation on the basis of us not being into our season yet? Drogheda conceded SEVEN less goals than us, but it's OK because they're actually during their season?

Yes, I think he is !!!!!! :dunno::crazy:

[Hermit Crab]

It's sad that after suffering Scotland's worst European defeat, a 1-5 Scottish cup final defeat to your biggest rivals, a shocking performance in the 0-3 defeat to Celtic where Celtic didnt come out 2nd gear, folk STILL think he's the right man. What I have noticed its the same folk who wanted CC to have more time. Sometimes you guys have to realize time isn't the answer, taking action and getting the right manager is the answer, for to long we have picked shockers.

We got beat 0-7 if this was a one off in terms of displays I'd be gutted and hope we could pass it. Pat himself has said he's struggling with this. I've came off the phone to a player this morning and I'll tell you what, after what he's saying I'd be surprised if he's here for the well game.

If he's away to Ireland for the weekend to consider his future as reports suggest then I doubt he'll be back on Monday never mind for the Motherwell game.

[Thecat23]

If he's away to Ireland for the weekend to consider his future as reports suggest then I doubt he'll be back on Monday never mind for the Motherwell game.

Yeah I agree mate. It's sad because he's cared more or seems to care more than past managers. He's tried but its not nasty to just say he's simply not good enough.

[21.05.2016]

In fairness to Fenlon, I don't blame him for the 5-1 cup final. He inherited an incrediably poor side full off gutless no marks from CC and hadn't had a lot of chance to clear them out and bring in his own players so to say he was responsible for that day I feel is a bit unfair. In the following summer he cleared out some of the deadwood and start to bring in his own players.

However, even though there was improvement from the CC era, Fenlons tactical choices at times have been a complete mystery and he seems unable to motivate the team a lot of the time. I've stood by Fenlon for a long time and always said we need to give him time etc. but I've really started to loose patience now. I know its not a good thing to be chopping and changing managers every 1/2 years or so but I just can't see us making significant improvements under Fenlon anymore.

If big big improvements are not made then I really fear for the upcoming season i'm afraid.

[Ozyhibby]

Anyone who was at the first leg will be able to tell you Stevenson got absolutely torn to shreds playing at right back.

What was Fenlon doing playing him their again? The first goal was down to him getting torn ripped again (and its not Stevenson's fault , he is a left footed central midfielder getting played at right back).

Aye, but if you mentioned it on here before last night you got torn to shreds by the Fenlon fans.
We laugh at the Hearts fans for having their head in the sand but we have been just as bad over a woeful manager.
Since the day he arrived the team have had no direction what so ever. We cannot move the ball from defence to attack, we have no pace and our defence is absolutely dire.
None of this just happened last night.
Folk calling for Petrie to go for picking Fenlon while they have been defending him for the last two years? Shows the level of knowledge of the average fan.
Still, now that the herd has turned, might as well run with it. Fenlon out.

[JimBHibees]

Fenlon in my opinion should either walk or be sacked. He showed last night he's clearly no idea how to set a team up, with so many players played out of position and playing a formation against an experienced European club that went out with the ark.

A back 4 for a start of Forster at right back McPake and Hanlon in the middle and Stevenson on the left would have been much more sensible, just the one player out of position, although he has played right back before and is right footed.

5 in midfield with vine up front, supported by the 2 wide men and Craig when given the opportunity. I'm not saying this with hindsight, i said the exact same thing on the team lineup for Malmo thread.

Having only 4 in midfield was suicide, and they ripped through it like a hot knife through butter. :rolleyes:

Now if an idiot like me can see this, surely someone who has managed at the level Fenlon has can too, but apparently he couldn't?

We'd still have lost, but again Pat Fenlon has contributed along with the players, players he's brought to the club (his team) to the biggest embarrassment in my time watching Hibernian Football Club.

Completely agree with that. I was amazed he had Handling starting and leaving our very average defence exposed to their superior midfield breaking forward. Absolute suicide against a very decent team. The most important thing for Hibs was staying in the tie for as long as possible to me his team selection killed off any chance we had. If it had been 0-0 with 20 to go there may still have been a chance of nicking a goal and keeping the crowd in the game. To lose goals so easily killed us and Malmo must have thought all their dreams had come early. Thomson I like as a player and is good on the ball however he isnt great without it and tracking back not that he was the only one to be fair.

[Onion]

Seriously, what HUGE DIFFERENCE has he made in the time he's been here? I'm truly baffled by that statement.


He's now been in charge for the two biggest humiliations in the history of our club. He also was in charge during a second cup Final where his team were never at the races. His team have never finished in the top half of the table, despite last season having no Rangers and, effectively, a disabled Hearts

I blame Griffiths. If hadn't been for him we would not have made those 2 cup finals or had to play a crack European side. Now he's gone, problem solved. We've no chance of progressing in cups and Europe is for better, smaller teams than Hibs. I have faith that Petrie and Fenlon won't let that happen again.

[The Leith Dutch]

What an utterly invalid thing to say.

A Scottish club with a fraction of our budget defeated comparable opposition last night.

They did so with two of our cast-offs (Cregg and Wotherspoon). Meanwhile, we capitulated with two of their best players from last year (Craig and Vine).

:top marks

There is, as Hibzbollah suggested, something seriously wrong with the club at a deep rooted level.

Say what you like about this player or that player but I don't think anyone can honestly say that there were 6 squads of players last season in the SPL which we'd have traded ours for and yet there were 6 squads of players who achieved more points than us.

And as for the managers - does anyone honestly think Stuart McCall or Derek Adams would have made us top 6? They somehow managed top 6 with fewer supporters and (imo) less good playing staff.

For the record - while I've been in the more time for Fenlon camp till now last night was unacceptable.

We are (in theory at least) a professional football club with a decent budget and getting humped 7-0 at home by anyone - with the possible exception of a genuinely world class side - should never ever happen.

In short my concern is that I'm now not convinced that a new manager and new players would solve the problems we have.

A perfect example of what we need is the ingrained culture represented by their number 10 chasing a ball down to stop us having a goal kick and leave us a throw when they were 7-0 up and after 80 odd minutes.

You can buy as many players as you want and punt the manager as often as you like but until that kind of attitude bleeds from every part of the club then we're going nowhere.

[BarneyK]

:top marks

There is, as Hibzbollah suggested, something seriously wrong with the club at a deep rooted level.

Say what you like about this player or that player but I don't think anyone can honestly say that there were 6 squads of players last season in the SPL which we'd have traded ours for and yet there were 6 squads of players who achieved more points than us.

And as for the managers - does anyone honestly think Stuart McCall or Derek Adams would have made us top 6? They somehow managed top 6 with fewer supporters and (imo) less good playing staff.

For the record - while I've been in the more time for Fenlon camp till now last night was unacceptable.

We are (in theory at least) a professional football club with a decent budget and getting humped 7-0 at home by anyone - with the possible exception of a genuinely world class side - should never ever happen.

In short my concern is that I'm now not convinced that a new manager and new players would solve the problems we have.

A perfect example of what we need is the ingrained culture represented by their number 10 chasing a ball down to stop us having a goal kick and leave us a throw when they were 7-0 up and after 80 odd minutes.

You can buy as many players as you want and punt the manager as often as you like but until that kind of attitude bleeds from every part of the club then we're going nowhere.

:agree: I think there's more to it. We keep on shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic that is Hibernian FC and nothing seems to change. Managers come and go but the insipid, lacking in confidence performances continue.

[Hermit Crab]

Yeah I agree mate. It's sad because he's cared more or seems to care more than past managers. He's tried but its not nasty to just say he's simply not good enough.

There's a post on the rewards thread that he's offered his resignation but got told to go away for the weekend and think about it. Why would the board not just accept it?

He does care and I think he was genuine in his interview last night but at the end of the day his team selection is questionable his tactics are non existent and he doesn't have the ability to change a game if things are going pear shaped he just lets it continue until its too late. Sorry pat can't fault your effort but its time to move on along with mcpake.

[Beefster]

There's a post on the rewards thread that he's offered his resignation but got told to go away for the weekend and think about it. Why would the board not just accept it?

He does care and I think he was genuine in his interview last night but at the end of the day his team selection is questionable his tactics are non existent and he doesn't have the ability to change a game if things are going pear shaped he just lets it continue until its too late. Sorry pat can't fault your effort but its time to move on along with mcpake.

I don't believe that.

[Hermit Crab]

I don't believe that.

Not sure I do either but it's been posted by cloudy on the rewards thread.

[Andy74]

Not sure I do either but it's been posted by cloudy on the rewards thread.

Looked more like a suggestion than a statement. Still, it's the new hibs.net fact I'm sure.

[Callum_62]

Not sure I do either but it's been posted by cloudy on the rewards thread.

he said he was thinking out loud.

[hibsbollah]

You previously said you were "still behind Fenlon".

You are entitled to your opinion of course.....but i ASK YOU AGAIN, on what basis are you still behnd him!?

1. We finished in the bottom 6 last year (behind the likes of Ross Co, St J, M'Well and in a league without Rangers and effectively Hearts)
2. Our football is dreadful under Fenlon
3. He signed Kuqi and Kujabi FFS
4. We have just been humped 7-0 at home to Malmo (and it was 7-0 going on 10-0 by the way!!)
5. We still have no pace in the team
6. We still look really unfit
7. St Johnstone have just beaten Rosenburg - that is surely a fair benchmark for us and Fenlon, no ???

So in the "game that matters" AS YOU SAY against Motherwell, if we lose (as I expect us to) will your stance change ?!?

I know that we can't keep sacking managers, but when is "enough enough" as far as Pat is concerned ?!?!?

I'm 'still behind him' in the sense that if we're going to have a revolution, id rather we change the whole system at Hibs, not just the figurehead. Frankly if he resigns today i wont be disappointed OR relieved.He's clearly not a roaring success in the role. But If its a managerial change just for the sake of it it'll be more of the same. As it stands we havesome new faces to come in to the team and learn their role. Craig has a good pedigree. The boy from Swindon has pedigree. Its possible last night could be a horrible nadir we could recover from.

Most of your numbered points are obviously selective and partial (why choose Kuqi and Kujabi and not his successful signings? Why avoid the clear improvement last season in fight and organisation,, 5 games unbeaten in derbies against a hearts side with their highly paid players still there, the cup run etc etc). But youre making a point, which I understand.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you think we have been failing for SUCCESSIVE seasons under successive managers? Why are we unable to keep pace with teams like Motherwell ICT and St Johnstone when by gate receipts alone we should be able to outmuscle them and at the very least be a regular contender for european places?

[Captain Trips]

PF has the the passion that was never a doubt and compared to the clown shoe that was CC this has carried him through terrible results. He isn't and never was the answer, that was clear after his furst 6 months when IMO a good manager could have git better results with that CC squad.

[Stevie Reid]

One of the things that I always said in Fenlon's favour, along with the fact that I genuinely do believe he has improved us, was that I felt that he had restored a real measure of pride in us since the SC Final defeat to Hearts - yes, he was in charge that day, but I never held him completely responsible for it, and there were mitigating circumstances.

However, any such pride has now well and truly been obliterated, and I can't even begin to start thinking positively about the upcoming SPFL campaign (which I had been until last night). I know we are not as bad now as Aberdeen were then, but I keep thinking back to their 9-0 defeat to Celtic - they didn't sack McGhee after that game, but then lost their next four and he went anyway.

Different circumstances, but this result feels equally as definitive.

[Simkin911]

I don't believe that.

I agree. When he returns on Monday though the scoreline will still have been 0-7. Nothing material will have changed ! :confused:

[BarneyK]

I'm 'still behind him' in the sense that if we're going to have a revolution, id rather we change the whole system at Hibs, not just the figurehead. Frankly if he resigns today i wont be disappointed OR relieved.He's clearly not a roaring success in the role. But If its a managerial change just for the sake of it it'll be more of the same. As it stands we havesome new faces to come in to the team and learn their role. Craig has a good pedigree. The boy from Swindon has pedigree. Its possible last night could be a horrible nadir we could recover from.

Most of your numbered points are obviously selective and partial (why choose Kuqi and Kujabi and not his successful signings? Why avoid the clear improvement last season in fight and organisation,, 5 games unbeaten in derbies against a hearts side with their highly paid players still there, the cup run etc etc). But youre making a point, which I understand.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you think we have been failing for SUCCESSIVE seasons under successive managers? Why are we unable to keep pace with teams like Motherwell ICT and St Johnstone when by gate receipts alone we should be able to outmuscle them and at the very least be a regular contender for european places?

:top marks The only thing I'd say is that we still look pretty incapable of creating chances. The boy from Swindon is by all accounts pretty good with his head, but I just don't know who's providing him that ammunition? To extend the problem, it always seemed odd how well Scottish kids done in younger age groups but then just did not kick on. I think the problem is with us and with Scottish football as a whole.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I'm 'still behind him' in the sense that if we're going to have a revolution, id rather we change the whole system at Hibs, not just the figurehead. Frankly if he resigns today i wont be disappointed OR relieved.He's clearly not a roaring success in the role. But If its a managerial change just for the sake of it it'll be more of the same. As it stands we havesome new faces to come in to the team and learn their role. Craig has a good pedigree. The boy from Swindon has pedigree. Its possible last night could be a horrible nadir we could recover from.

Most of your numbered points are obviously selective and partial (why choose Kuqi and Kujabi and not his successful signings? Why avoid the clear improvement last season in fight and organisation,, 5 games unbeaten in derbies against a hearts side with their highly paid players still there, the cup run etc etc). But youre making a point, which I understand.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you think we have been failing for SUCCESSIVE seasons under successive managers? Why are we unable to keep pace with teams like Motherwell ICT and St Johnstone when by gate receipts alone we should be able to outmuscle them and at the very least be a regular contender for european places?

Probably because they appoint better managers than us (Petrie got lucky with Mowbray).

We have so many things to be proud of (Ground, Training Centre) but on the park we have been a joke as you say for a while now.

Perhaps we should get the St Johnstone chairman to appoint our next manager (although am I right in thinking that because of the Calderwood debacle it was made clear that Petrie wasn't involved in the selection of Fenlon?)

Many things to ponder :agree:

[hibsmad]

What type of contract does Fenlon have? Is it a one year rolling contract?

Just wondering how expensive it could be to change things. Although judging by the football I would think that not changing things could be a lot more expensive.

[blackpoolhibs]

:top marks The only thing I'd say is that we still look pretty incapable of creating chances. The boy from Swindon is by all accounts pretty good with his head, but I just don't know who's providing him that ammunition? To extend the problem, it always seemed odd how well Scottish kids done in younger age groups but then just did not kick on. I think the problem is with us and with Scottish football as a whole.

:agree: I remember sitting in a bar in Maribor, we'd just been pumped again. I was talking to a few Maribor fans, and they said their players were on around 4 thousand euros a month, and technically were all miles better than our players.

It got me thinking, why couldn't we tap into this kind of market, and bring over players from that league?

Surely we could offer them better wages and they would enhance our team? Its alright bringing through your own players, but if they are so much inferior to those we can get from places like Slovenia, why bloody bother?

I'm genuinely pissed off with the way Hibs have been going since Mowbray, and wonder if we are doing the right thing with youth and the way they are taught?

[Makaveli]

What type of contract does Fenlon have? Is it a one year rolling contract?

Just wondering how expensive it could be to change things. Although judging by the football I would think that not changing things could be a lot more expensive.

I think he signed a 2.5 year contract ending next summer.

[Stevie Reid]

What type of contract does Fenlon have? Is it a one year rolling contract?

Just wondering how expensive it could be to change things. Although judging by the football I would think that not changing things could be a lot more expensive.

His contract runs out at the end of this season.

[One Day Soon]

I'm 'still behind him' in the sense that if we're going to have a revolution, id rather we change the whole system at Hibs, not just the figurehead. Frankly if he resigns today i wont be disappointed OR relieved.He's clearly not a roaring success in the role. But If its a managerial change just for the sake of it it'll be more of the same. As it stands we havesome new faces to come in to the team and learn their role. Craig has a good pedigree. The boy from Swindon has pedigree. Its possible last night could be a horrible nadir we could recover from.

Most of your numbered points are obviously selective and partial (why choose Kuqi and Kujabi and not his successful signings? Why avoid the clear improvement last season in fight and organisation,, 5 games unbeaten in derbies against a hearts side with their highly paid players still there, the cup run etc etc). But youre making a point, which I understand.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you think we have been failing for SUCCESSIVE seasons under successive managers? Why are we unable to keep pace with teams like Motherwell ICT and St Johnstone when by gate receipts alone we should be able to outmuscle them and at the very least be a regular contender for european places?


Because we keep appointing the wrong candidates.

[FromTheCapital]

Fenlon has to go in my opinion. And, it's sad because he has actually brought in some good footballers but tactically he is clueless. Defended him after the 5-1 'Fenlon must go' thread and I don't think anyone thought he would go after last season either despite it being a pretty poor finish from where we were come January and the stature of the club. But last night was the first time I truly believed Fenlon had to go. Fenlon out Shiels in.

[Andy74]

:agree: I remember sitting in a bar in Maribor, we'd just been pumped again. I was talking to a few Maribor fans, and they said their players were on around 4 thousand euros a month, and technically were all miles better than our players.

It got me thinking, why couldn't we tap into this kind of market, and bring over players from that league?

Surely we could offer them better wages and they would enhance our team? Its alright bringing through your own players, but if they are so much inferior to those we can get from places like Slovenia, why bloody bother?

I'm genuinely pissed off with the way Hibs have been going since Mowbray, and wonder if we are doing the right thing with youth and the way they are taught?

The one thing you know playing any foreign team, at whatever level, is they are going to be quick, technical and good on the ball. I've no idea why that's the case but last night showed very clearly where we lie in the scheme of things. Malmo are no-ones in Europe but we won't face a team playing like that again for some time.

[J-C]

What type of contract does Fenlon have? Is it a one year rolling contract?

Just wondering how expensive it could be to change things. Although judging by the football I would think that not changing things could be a lot more expensive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15864578

2.5 years according to this, starting Nov 2011, so has 10 moths left.

[BarneyK]

:agree: I remember sitting in a bar in Maribor, we'd just been pumped again. I was talking to a few Maribor fans, and they said their players were on around 4 thousand euros a month, and technically were all miles better than our players.

It got me thinking, why couldn't we tap into this kind of market, and bring over players from that league?

Surely we could offer them better wages and they would enhance our team? Its alright bringing through your own players, but if they are so much inferior to those we can get from places like Slovenia, why bloody bother?

I'm genuinely pissed off with the way Hibs have been going since Mowbray, and wonder if we are doing the right thing with youth and the way they are taught?

In the context of Scottish fitba, they still seem to be doing ok. The Under 20s and Under 17s(?) are both on course to win The Foyle Cup, and the under 20s performed pretty well last season. The problem seems to be with that next step up. Scottish football is going backwards. Just like the senior side, the Under 21s now struggle to make major competitions. Not good times at all.

[Dr Jimmy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15864578

2.5 years according to this, starting Nov 2011, so has 10 moths left.

I doubt he will get a pay off then, probably just garden leave and keep him on the payroll until his contract ends. Just uses up a wage rather than a lump sum.

Best thing would be for Pat to fall on his sword. Shame really, as he wanted to change the culture at the club into a winning mentality etc. He just didn't have the ability.

[Cropley10]

His contract runs out at the end of this season.

Away and get him to **** then.

Motherwell and Hearts will be licking their lips...

[Beefster]

I'm 'still behind him' in the sense that if we're going to have a revolution, id rather we change the whole system at Hibs, not just the figurehead. Frankly if he resigns today i wont be disappointed OR relieved.He's clearly not a roaring success in the role. But If its a managerial change just for the sake of it it'll be more of the same. As it stands we havesome new faces to come in to the team and learn their role. Craig has a good pedigree. The boy from Swindon has pedigree. Its possible last night could be a horrible nadir we could recover from.

Most of your numbered points are obviously selective and partial (why choose Kuqi and Kujabi and not his successful signings? Why avoid the clear improvement last season in fight and organisation,, 5 games unbeaten in derbies against a hearts side with their highly paid players still there, the cup run etc etc). But youre making a point, which I understand.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you think we have been failing for SUCCESSIVE seasons under successive managers? Why are we unable to keep pace with teams like Motherwell ICT and St Johnstone when by gate receipts alone we should be able to outmuscle them and at the very least be a regular contender for european places?

We were talking about this last night as the goals rained in. What Fenlon signings could be classed as successful signings yet? Williams definitely. Claros maybe. Not McPake, not McGivern, not Clancy, not Robertson, not Thomson, not Cairney, not Taiwo, not Deegan, not Kujabi, not Kuqi, not Doyle, not the new guys.

I think this "he can spot a player" stuff might be a bit of a myth.

[Hermit Crab]

Away and get him to **** then.

Motherwell and Hearts will be licking their lips...

As will utd Killy Patrick county Inverness stj and st mirren.

[Andy74]

As will utd Killy Patrick county Inverness stj and st mirren.

Do you think we might be taking this a bit far? :rolleyes:

[Paisley Hibby]

OK I'll start it but surely if Pat has any respect or cares for this club he will offer his resignation.

The worst result ever by a Scottish club in Europe, and that cup final, I don't like to call for a mangers head but surely there is no argument after that.

The players & the fans must have lost all confidence in him.

Sorry Pat you're a nice guy but not up to the Hibs job. :agree:

Of course he should go. I've been saying that since BEFORE the Scottish Cup Semi Final. Can't believe over 20% say he should stay :confused:

[Hermit Crab]

Do you think we might be taking this a bit far? :rolleyes:

No I don't. Other teams must relish the thought of playing us this season. Pat Fenlon. The gift that just keeps giving............................. To other teams.

[Hibercelona]

I don't think it matters what players we bring to the club, they all become deadwood at Hibs, regardless of who they are.

We could sign Ronaldo and Van Persie and still be taken to the cleaners by a team with Hurtado and Konte up front.

That's because we just don't "get it". As a club, we fail to understand the fundamental basics of pass and move.

If there's no movement off the ball and a lack of urgency to make something happen, then you can't win football matches, regardless of who you field on the park.

[Treadstone]

Do you think we might be taking this a bit far? :rolleyes:

How many wins in the new SPFL would you expect if last night was any sort of barometer ?

[hibsmad]

I think he signed a 2.5 year contract ending next summer.


His contract runs out at the end of this season.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15864578

2.5 years according to this, starting Nov 2011, so has 10 moths left.

Cheers.

Probably makes it slightly more likely that Rod will stick with him for now. A rolling contract would have meant a years worth of wages regardless of when he was sacked. This contract means he may decide to give him an extra 6 months to turn things around, knowing that if he does sack him in January then six months of wages will have been saved.

I realise that this would be short sighted, but it is Rod and money we are talking about.

[Speedway]

Fenlon has to go in my opinion. And, it's sad because he has actually brought in some good footballers but tactically he is clueless. Defended him after the 5-1 'Fenlon must go' thread and I don't think anyone thought he would go after last season either despite it being a pretty poor finish from where we were come January and the stature of the club. But last night was the first time I truly believed Fenlon had to go. Fenlon out Shiels in.

Remind me of Shiels' managerial pedigree again please.


How many wins in the new SPFL would you expect if last night was any sort of barometer ?

How many has Fenlon brought us so far? That would be my forecast going forward.

[The Leith Dutch]

:agree: I remember sitting in a bar in Maribor, we'd just been pumped again. I was talking to a few Maribor fans, and they said their players were on around 4 thousand euros a month, and technically were all miles better than our players.

It got me thinking, why couldn't we tap into this kind of market, and bring over players from that league?

Surely we could offer them better wages and they would enhance our team? Its alright bringing through your own players, but if they are so much inferior to those we can get from places like Slovenia, why bloody bother?

I'm genuinely pissed off with the way Hibs have been going since Mowbray, and wonder if we are doing the right thing with youth and the way they are taught?

Looking at this post made me think of the two Williams errors last night.

We seem to have a knack for making players go backwards and I have a horrible feeling that we could sign technically excellent players in that mould and within a year they'd have added 2 to 3 feet to their first touch in training with us.

[Leishy1995]

I think the fact an elder gentlemen turned to me at full time and said

"51 years supporting hibs and I've never seen this kind of defeat, 7-0 at home. Shocking"

We are getting worse.

[steakbake]

Cheers.

Probably makes it slightly more likely that Rod will stick with him for now. A rolling contract would have meant a years worth of wages regardless of when he was sacked. This contract means he may decide to give him an extra 6 months to turn things around, knowing that if he does sack him in January then six months of wages will have been saved.

I realise that this would be short sighted, but it is Rod and money we are talking about.

When is the AGM? I suspect this will be concluded either way by then.

[Torto7062]

Fenlon has resigned. .....currently doing the social media circles

[Andy74]

How many wins in the new SPFL would you expect if last night was any sort of barometer ?

I don't believe last night was any sort of barometer.

[Hibby Bairn]

Is he still there?

Cannot believe we haven't sacked him. I mean we have just been beaten 7-0 at home.

Utter humiliation and we keep faith with our manager. I really cannot understand it.

[TowerHibs]

Jimmy Calderwood for me - the snobbery when he is linked with jobs is amazing. Excellent coach, gets the best out of players and has his back room staff already in place.

Overachieved at Dumfy, overachieved at Aberdeen and overachieved with Go Eagles.

[bingo70]

No chance

[Johnny Clash]

I'd give him until the end of the season then that's it! I don't think there can be any arguments after that.

I'd set the bench mark as top three as well. Make it clear our aspirations are not just top six. If we can't manage top three then we need a new manager who can deliver.

The board also need to provide proper resources.

Our fans have shown time after time that we'll turn out if they get a decent performance on the pitch. That's a fact. I can't blame the 'stay aways' who turned out last night for not returning. .

If we can pull ourselves together and turn it on in the league then things will of course look much different. Next few months are crucial!!

[Keith_M]

Social Media = Any Old B*ll*x


Don't get your hopes up if this is all it's based on.

[The Leith Dutch]

We were talking about this last night as the goals rained in. What Fenlon signings could be classed as successful signings yet? Williams definitely. Claros maybe. Not McPake, not McGivern, not Clancy, not Robertson, not Thomson, not Cairney, not Taiwo, not Deegan, not Kujabi, not Kuqi, not Doyle, not the new guys.

I think this "he can spot a player" stuff might be a bit of a myth.

Without defending Fenlon I'd say some of those player ratings above are a wee bit harsh.

Cairney in the first three months or so of last season was exactly the player we've been crying out for and I'm not certain the reasons he disintegrated were predictable prior to signing.

Taiwo and Claros I think were good signings with the caveat that I'm not sure we should spend the entire playing budget on diminutive holding midfielders ;)

McGivern, while he's no Paulo Maldini, is for me a good signing - will do a job, covers two positions and a good chance of decent resale value.

And going back to the summer of 2012 I don't think there were many who didn't think we absolutely had to sign McPake.

I wouldn't say he can spot a player but I'm less concerned with the quality of signings and more worried about the balance of those signings - far too one dimensional and we now have a team that lacks balance.

[hibsmad]

When is the AGM? I suspect this will be concluded either way by then.

Not sure unfortunately.

But you are correct, if he is going then it will almost definitely be by the time this comes around.

[Mark1875]

Wouldn't rule it out. He sounded very despondent in the bbc interview after the match last night. Seemed like he had things weighing on his mind when he was giving the interview. Would not surprise me in the slightest if he did fall on his own sword.

[SlickShoes]

That rumor started here, so now its went full circle.

[SHODAN]

"Facebook rumours"

Enough said.

[Wembley67]

Wouldn't rule it out. He sounded very despondent in the bbc interview after the match last night. Seemed like he had things weighing on his mind when he was giving the interview. Would not surprise me in the slightest if he did fall on his own sword.

of course he sounded despondent :confused:

[SaulGoodman]

What's the ranking for if rumours are true or not?

1: official site
2: SSN
3. Here
4. Other teams forums
5. Football rumours
6. The Sun understands
7 Facebook Rumours
8 BBC

[21.05.2016]

Wouldn't believe anything on social media

[J-C]

What's the ranking for if rumours are true or not?

1: official site
2: SSN
3. Here
4. Other teams forums
5. Football rumours
6. The Sun understands
7 Facebook Rumours
8 BBC


You forgot Greggs and the fishman :greengrin

[joe breezy]

I've seen Paul Hartley's name mentioned, would be a good choice I think

[Keith_M]

What's the ranking for if rumours are true or not?

1: official site
2: SSN
3. Here
4. Other teams forums
5. Football rumours
6. The Sun understands
7 Facebook Rumours
8 BBC


Where does Twitter fit in?

[Beefster]

Without defending Fenlon I'd say some of those player ratings above are a wee bit harsh.

Cairney in the first three months or so of last season was exactly the player we've been crying out for and I'm not certain the reasons he disintegrated were predictable prior to signing.

Taiwo and Claros I think were good signings with the caveat that I'm not sure we should spend the entire playing budget on diminutive holding midfielders ;)

McGivern, while he's no Paulo Maldini, is for me a good signing - will do a job, covers two positions and a good chance of decent resale value.

And going back to the summer of 2012 I don't think there were many who didn't think we absolutely had to sign McPake.

I wouldn't say he can spot a player but I'm less concerned with the quality of signings and more worried about the balance of those signings - far too one dimensional and we now have a team that lacks balance.

You may well be right and I wasn't suggesting that they are/will all be failures. Just not sure that many signings can be classed as 'successful' yet.

[Mark1875]

of course he sounded despondent :confused:


Well yeah, of course, it didn't seem like a normal interview though. Even allowing for the fact that it wasn't a normal result. As soon as I played it last night I turned to my brother and said he'll resign tomorrow. Something just seemed really off.

[Hibercelona]

I've seen Paul Hartley's name mentioned, would be a good choice I think

He'd be hounded out in an instant.

[SaulGoodman]

Where does Twitter fit in?

Depends who Twa- ahem tweets it :greengrin

[Stevie Reid]

You may well be right and I wasn't suggesting that they are/will all be failures. Just not sure that many signings can be classed as 'successful' yet.

I think many of them can certainly be classed as improvements on what we had before, though we were at rock bottom previously. Many of them certainly still have much still to prove if we are to get to where we want to be.

I wouldn't write anyone on that list off just yet, though McPake's situation is extremely concerning.

[Springbank]

I think many of them can certainly be classed as improvements on what we had before, though we were at rock bottom previously. Many of them certainly still have much still to prove if we are to get to where we want to be.

I wouldn't write anyone on that list off just yet, though McPake's situation is extremely concerning.

I think we are back at rock bottom

Change needed before the derby

[Hibbyradge]

Fenlon won't resign or be sacked until we have a Fenlon Must Go, thread.

Has to go, just won't cut it.

[Hibercelona]

I think many of them can certainly be classed as improvements on what we had before, though we were at rock bottom, previously. Many of them certainly still have much still to prove if we are to get to where we want to be.

The thing is. There really not bad signings. Players just don't seem to perform when they're at Hibs, but have no problem performing else where.

They have the potential to play good football, but for whatever reason, we never get players playing anywhere near their full potential.

We're in a constant spiral of new managers and new players, but the same problem remains.

[mutley]

For me it's a tough one, really like PF however the results are dire.

I think if we need to play well against Motherwell and a win against yams is a must . Anything less and he should step aside

[Time For Heroes]

As will utd Killy Patrick county Inverness stj and st mirren.

Never heard of this Patrick guy but surely even us would win?
:D

Then again, probably not.

[PeeJay]

For me it's a tough one, really like PF however the results are dire.

I think if we need to play well against Motherwell and a win against yams is a must . Anything less and he should step aside

So a 0-7 defeat at home doesn't convince you? :faf: Anyway, has he really not resigned yet?

[Andy74]

The thing is. There really not bad signings. Players just don't seem to perform when they're at Hibs, but have no problem performing else where.

They have the potential to play good football, but for whatever reason, we never get players playing anywhere near their full potential.

We're in a constant spiral of new managers and new players, but the same problem remains.

That's why. Let's let the league commence and let it settle down.

We've got some new players in again and they are faced with us trying to remove the manager that signed them, after a bad defeat admittedly.

If we are getting that type of result against SPL teams in a few months then I'll be there asking for changes to be made.

[Speedway]

So a 0-7 defeat at home doesn't convince you? :faf: Anyway, has he really not resigned yet?

Nope, nor will he.

[GreenOnions]

It seems ridiculous because it is. Fenlon inherited TWO of the FOURTEEN players involved last night (Hanlon and Stevenson).

12 of the 14 have made their debut during his tenure — 8 that he signed and 4 from the youth set-up.

When does it start counting as his team?

I take your point - but my point is that the context of "re-building" is still very much valid.

Vine, Mullen, Forster, Craig, Harris and Handling have hardly played in our first team at all and yet all played last night. This is the due to the fact that so many changes in personnel have had to be made over the last 18 months and because some of our summer signings are either yet to be made or weren't eligible (Collins).

It has been Fenlon's inheritance that he has needed to make so many changes in each of the transfer windows since his appointment.

In particular - our defence was threadbare and lacking experience.

It's all very well saying "it's Fenlon's team now" but I think a little bit of context helps does it not?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

You forgot Greggs and the fishman :greengrin

ONE POUND FISH MAN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETSl8gWsFZ0)

:greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

I take your point - but my point is that the context of "re-building" is still very much valid.

Vine, Mullen, Forster, Craig, Harris and Handling have hardly played in our first team at all and yet all played last night. This is the due to the fact that so many changes in personnel have had to be made over the last 18 months and because some of our summer signings are either yet to be made or weren't eligible (Collins).

It has been Fenlon's inheritance that he has needed to make so many changes in each of the transfer windows since his appointment.

In particular - our defence was threadbare and lacking experience.

It's all very well saying "it's Fenlon's team now" but I think a little bit of context helps does it not?

People can find mitigating circumstances to excuse every result in football some with justification some just hot air. However a 7-0 humping at home is a difficult one for a manager to escape from.

Pat knows this himself I'm sure. History teaches us that persistent chopping and changing of the managers does not bring success but my fear after this result is the effect on morale of the players and indeed Pat himself. Does he have the inner strength to pick himself and the club up by the scruff of the neck and drive us forward so that it doesn't happen again?

With regret I am not so sure Pat has it in him to pick this club up off the floor or has bought the players to do it. If he has got it in him now is the time to show it,he surely only has August at most to show improvement.

The Hibs board have a very difficult decision to make now.

[Expecting Rain]

We could have lost 10 nil last night and still some fans would have been defending Pat Fenlon.

[Allant1981]

That's why. Let's let the league commence and let it settle down.

We've got some new players in again and they are faced with us trying to remove the manager that signed them, after a bad defeat admittedly.

If we are getting that type of result against SPL teams in a few months then I'll be there asking for changes to be made.

Agree 100%, last nights game was a freak result. As much as folk dont want to admit it we have made progress in the league, if we dont finish in the top 4 this season then thats when fenlon should be out the door.

[Andy74]

We could have lost 10 nil last night and still some fans would have been defending Pat Fenlon.

Not for the result they wouldn't. You will get different opinions on what to do about it though.

Quite a few of us would argue that the decent finish to last year, consecutive cup finals and so on will allow him some time yet, others wouldn't.

Don't confuse that with thinking that the result was acceptable though.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

We could have lost 10 nil last night and still some fans would have been defending Pat Fenlon.

Thats the worrying thing, too many folk have become happy to accept mediocrity, I'm not, its embarassing.

[WhileTheChief..]

A freak result? Nah, it's been coming for ages. We have loads of thrashings under Fenlon.

Can't get my head around folk defending him. No doubt the same that stuck up for Calderwood.

Thankfully enough of us can see its over for him, Petrie included I'm sure, and he will be away soon enough.

He should be away before the Motherwell game at the latest.

[WhileTheChief..]

Thats the worrying thing, too many folk have become happy to accept mediocrity, I'm not, its embarassing.

100% agree.

Said it for ages, our support is soft as ****

We should be demanding more not accepting worse and worse.

[Eternal Hibbie]

The club should consider holding a press conference to clear the air after last nights humiliation.

Both RP and PF should apologise unreservedly to the support, pledge that it shall never happen again in their tenure and state clearly the consequences in the event it did.

They should outline their vision for our club explaining what is deemed as acceptable in terms of league placing and cup runs.

Finally they should plead with the support to stick by them whilst promising swift action to make things better.

[Beefster]

Agree 100%, last nights game was a freak result. As much as folk dont want to admit it we have made progress in the league, if we dont finish in the top 4 this season then thats when fenlon should be out the door.

Since Fenlon took over, we've had about a dozen games where we've been beaten either by 3 clear goals or more or by lower league opposition. That's a lot of freak results.

[EH54]

He should resign simple and if it wasn't for Leigh last year i don't think he would have a leg to stand on.

[JimBHibees]

No I don't. Other teams must relish the thought of playing us this season. Pat Fenlon. The gift that just keeps giving............................. To other teams.

Did we not finish 7th in the league and get to a second Scottish final last season? Whats this gift that just keeps giving nonsense?

[MacBean]

The club should consider holding a press conference to clear the air after last nights humiliation.

Both RP and PF should apologise unreservedly to the support, pledge that it shall never happen again in their tenure and state clearly the consequences in the event it did.

They should outline their vision for our club explaining what is deemed as acceptable in terms of league placing and cup runs.

Finally they should plead with the support to stick by them whilst promising swift action to make things better.

I'm sure certain comments were made after 5-1

[Scouse Hibee]

The club should consider holding a press conference to clear the air after last nights humiliation.

Both RP and PF should apologise unreservedly to the support, pledge that it shall never happen again in their tenure and state clearly the consequences in the event it did.

They should outline their vision for our club explaining what is deemed as acceptable in terms of league placing and cup runs.

Finally they should plead with the support to stick by them whilst promising swift action to make things better.

Actions speak louder than words, the time for talking is over!

[davieh]

I don't get posters who say "give him 2 or 3 games into the season to see how we do." Or "wait til the AGM"...the season's not started yet, the transfer window is open another 5 weeks.

Its decision time Rod

[Thecat23]

Like another poster said. Far to many people seem to accept this. It's not a freak result by the way. We have been a Baw hair away from a good skelping for Christ knows how long. If you don't see that then you are deluded.

I've said it before, seems to me it's the same posters who keep saying with every manager keep with them!! WHY?? Because we have another rubbish manager we should just stick with him to save money? I'd offer Stuart McCall a contract. Prob turn it down right enough but he done superb with Well on a shoe string budget. Knows the SPL as well.

So again, these folk who keep defending him, and the other managers saying it will work out, it clearly didnt and we are left with a forgettable season. Now is the time for a new man in charge. Then a new board bit by bit.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Did we not finish 7th in the league

We should have released a commemrative DVD.
See my previous post.

[Andy74]

Thats the worrying thing, too many folk have become happy to accept mediocrity, I'm not, its embarassing.

I don't think they do, they perhaps just have other ways of addressing it?

Are you a manager of any sort? If so, if staff have had bad results in one way or another is the only option to sack them or should you try and use a combination of things to improve matters?

I don't acept medicority in my workplace but I've not had to sack anyone yet to turn around a number of bad positions to very positive ones.

[Ozyhibby]

The club should hold a press conference to announce Fenlon's departure.

[BarneyK]

The club should consider holding a press conference to clear the air after last nights humiliation.

Both RP and PF should apologise unreservedly to the support, pledge that it shall never happen again in their tenure and state clearly the consequences in the event it did.

They should outline their vision for our club explaining what is deemed as acceptable in terms of league placing and cup runs.

Finally they should plead with the support to stick by them whilst promising swift action to make things better.

Talk is cheap. Would rather they done their talking on the pitch for a change.

[Paisley Hibby]

Not for the result they wouldn't. You will get different opinions on what to do about it though.

Quite a few of us would argue that the decent finish to last year, consecutive cup finals and so on will allow him some time yet, others wouldn't.

Don't confuse that with thinking that the result was acceptable though.

But it's not just last night. He's now given us three of the biggest humiliations I've seen in my time as a Hibee? I'm 54 so that's some achievement in just 18 months!

[Thecat23]

I don't think they do, they perhaps just have other ways of addressing it?

Are you a manager of any sort? If so, if staff have had bad results in one way or another is the only option to sack them or should you try and use a combination of things to improve matters?

I don't acept medicority in my workplace but I've not had to sack anyone yet to turn around a number of bad positions to very positive ones.

Andy I have to say a lot of this stuff you are saying is the same when CC was under real pressure. You were wrong then and I believe you are wrong now. Fenlon is a good guy, but Hibs are to big a club for him.

[Bad Martini]

Fenlon is a nice guy.

Can't fault him for effort.

Can fault his tactics , training, game plan and player selection and purchases.

Fenlon isn't good enough. Never was. Better than Calderwood doesn't equate to good enough for Hibs.

IMHO

[Andy74]

Andy I have to say a lot of this stuff you are saying is the same when CC was under real pressure. You were wrong then and I believe you are wrong now. Fenlon is a good guy, but Hibs are to big a club for him.

No, I was leading the CC out charge! :greengrin

[Winston Ingram]

We could have lost 10 nil last night and still some fans would have been defending Pat Fenlon.

We would have lost 10-0 if they hadn't got bored

[Ozyhibby]

People keep saying Fenlon is a nice guy. We'll see if he's a nice guy if he digs his heels in and makes us sack him and pay compo.
If he was a nice guy, he would have done the honourable thing and walked this morning.

[Allant1981]

Fenlon is a nice guy.

Can't fault him for effort.

Can fault his tactics , training, game plan and player selection and purchases.

Fenlon isn't good enough. Never was. Better than Calderwood doesn't equate to good enough for Hibs.

IMHO

Do we know what his game plan was for last night though? Dont get me wrong they were terrible but once those players cross that line there isnt much that he can do, most peoples team selections wouldnt have been far off what he put out last night, playing lewis at right back being the exception

[hibsbollah]

We were talking about this last night as the goals rained in. What Fenlon signings could be classed as successful signings yet? Williams definitely. Claros maybe. Not McPake, not McGivern, not Clancy, not Robertson, not Thomson, not Cairney, not Taiwo, not Deegan, not Kujabi, not Kuqi, not Doyle, not the new guys.

I think this "he can spot a player" stuff might be a bit of a myth.

To me;

Good signings: Williams, Claros, McGivern, Taiwo
Average, had their hot n cold streaks: McPake Clancy Robertson Thomson Cairney Deegan Doyle.
Poor: Kuqi and Kujabi.

[Captain Trips]

I don't get posters who say "give him 2 or 3 games into the season to see how we do." Or "wait til the AGM"...the season's not started yet, the transfer window is open another 5 weeks.

Its decision time Rod

After 18 or so Months a manager that is doing well shouldnt need 2, or 3 games to see how it goes or until an AGM, if that is the situation then he certainly isnt fit for purpose. He should be well beyond that sort of situation by now and he isnt.

A manager can survive last nights result providing he has plenty of previous to show that it was a freak unfortunatly PF no backup for me, the result is to a point freakish in the actual score but it isnt totally surprising and that says it all for me.

[WhileTheChief..]

No, I was leading the CC out charge! :greengrin

So get back on that horse and lead the way!!

I'm not being wide but do you want him to stay because you think he can turn us around or just to avoid changing managers again?

I like the guy but just don't see any way back under him.

[GreenPJ]

I am presuming that as there has been no announcement from the board yet they are not planning on sacking him yet and therefore my question to them would be you must have enough confidence to see him through to the end of the season?

It would be negligent in the extreme to get 8/9 games into the season, have had a bad start and then sack him. As someone else has said there is still a few weeks left in the window, if the board have their doubts then make the decision now and give a new manager at least some scope to bring in players.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I don't think they do, they perhaps just have other ways of addressing it?

Are you a manager of any sort? If so, if staff have had bad results in one way or another is the only option to sack them or should you try and use a combination of things to improve matters?

I don't acept medicority in my workplace but I've not had to sack anyone yet to turn around a number of bad positions to very positive ones.

Are you Pat's brother?

[Captain Trips]

I am presuming that as there has been no announcement from the board yet they are not planning on sacking him yet and therefore my question to them would be you must have enough confidence to see him through to the end of the season?

It would be negligent in the extreme to get 8/9 games into the season, have had a bad start and then sack him. As someone else has said there is still a few weeks left in the window, if the board have their doubts then make the decision now and give a new manager at least some scope to bring in players.

Which is exactly what we did with CC how RP thought he was going to turn that around was just a ridiculous decision added to we had an offer to get rid instead we pay him off. Rod should have followed CC right out the door and should be following PF.

[Andy74]

So get back on that horse and lead the way!!

I'm not being wide but do you want him to stay because you think he can turn us around or just to avoid changing managers again?

I like the guy but just don't see any way back under him.

A bit of both, although I don't think in the scheme of things we need too much turning around. Last night was truly shocking but I don't think it is really an indicator of where we are going to be this season.

The big boy up front will help, I'm worried about McPake, Clancy and McGivern all being injured so aften though - that is a huge factor for me.

We are integrating new players yet again, playing some kids, reshuffling for injuries, not good to be playing a decent team in full flow but i think with a bit of luck on the injury side at the back and probbaly signing a player or two for there we will be challenging where we want to be in the league.

If its not working after a few weeks then yes, I'll be conceding that he isn't getting it right with largely his players, although that will depend what out of his first choice back four is available.

[Andy74]

Are you Pat's brother?

Great, very intelligent response. :rolleyes:

[Andy74]

Which is exactly what we did with CC how RP thought he was going to turn that around was just a ridiculous decision added to we had an offer to get rid instead we pay him off. Rod should have followed CC right out the door and should be following PF.

Are we on such a run though? We ended last season rather well.

[Fergus52]

Im still behind him. That Malmo side were a joy to watch at times tonight. The game that matters is Motherwell in ten days.

We've still more players to bring in.

Honestly think with a couple of decent signings we will do well in the league this year.

[Hibercelona]

We would have lost 10-0 if they hadn't got bored

Would have been 12-0 if we hadn't successfully fooled them into thinking they were at a meaningless training session.

I still don't thing sacking managers and bringing in new players again (for the upteenth time) is going to make any difference to this funk we're in.

Those players could play anywhere else in the SPL and do a good job for that club. So it's not the signings that are the problem.

The problem is what we do with the signings.

[Thecat23]

No, I was leading the CC out charge! :greengrin

Lol, damn I'm wrong again!!!! :D

[Captain Trips]

Are we on such a run though? We ended last season rather well.

I do not know if we are on any such run but overall PF isnt good enough however speaking of runs our last 3 competative matches have seen us lose 14 goals with zero scored.

[Fergus52]

Agree 100%, last nights game was a freak result. As much as folk dont want to admit it we have made progress in the league, if we dont finish in the top 4 this season then thats when fenlon should be out the door.

My thoughts exactly.

Changing managers now will do nothing good.

2 cup finals and a steady improvement in the league so far, let's see where we are come may.

[Treadstone]

A year later he became our manager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_F.C.#Record_by_competition


Bohs entered the Champions League again in 2010–2011. They were drawn against Welsh side The New Saints in the Second Qualifying Round, and won the first leg 1–0 at Dalymount Park on 13 July 2010.They lost the second leg 4–0 and were eliminated 4–1 on aggregate. Bohs manager Pat Fenlon later labelled the performance as 'disgraceful' and said 'the players let the club, league and country down'. The result was labelled by others as the worst result in Bohs' 40-year European history.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

We couldnae finish in the top 6 in an SPL devoid of Rangers and containing the worst Hearts team for years. At least we had a nice wee run against the other pish in the bottom 6.

[Keith_M]

My thoughts exactly.

Changing managers now will do nothing good.

2 cup finals and a steady improvement in the league so far, let's see where we are come may.


Well, I for one bl**dy hope it's not in ANOTHER Cup Final!!

[Ozyhibby]

My thoughts exactly.

Changing managers now will do nothing good.

2 cup finals and a steady improvement in the league so far, let's see where we are come may.

It's hard not to get personal when you read stuff like that.
Are you related to Fenlon?
We have some good players at the club but under Fenlon we are garbage. A change is a must.

[Vault Boy]

My thoughts exactly.

Changing managers now will do nothing good.

2 cup finals and a steady improvement in the league so far, let's see where we are come may.

It's hard to say whilst I am still physically sickened by the result last night, but I tend to agree with this.

[Andy74]

A year later he became our manager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_F.C.#Record_by_competition

How about balancing that with some of his very good European results?

[Beefster]

Are we on such a run though? We ended last season rather well.

We've won 7 of our 23 competitive games this year. Three of those wins were in the Scottish Cup.

[Hermit Crab]

Did we not finish 7th in the league and get to a second Scottish final last season? Whats this gift that just keeps giving nonsense?

Yeah 7th is acceptable right enough. Better than 11th so that's ok. 2 cup finals and a European tie. 17 conceded and one scored. No tactics no ability to change a game, pish poor team selection and formations. The gift that keeps giving to other teams.

Good attempt at defending him though.

FENLON OUT.

[Spike Mandela]

No, I was leading the CC out charge! :greengrin

Yeah like a World War I General about sixty miles back from the front.:cb

[hibees_harper]

absolute murder!

he should go, but who do we get in, another short term manager that inherits a crap squad and tries to re-build his own crap squad over a season or two till his head gets called for?

[Hermit Crab]

The club should consider holding a press conference to clear the air after last nights humiliation.

Both RP and PF should apologise unreservedly to the support, pledge that it shall never happen again in their tenure and state clearly the consequences in the event it did.

They should outline their vision for our club explaining what is deemed as acceptable in terms of league placing and cup runs.

Finally they should plead with the support to stick by them whilst promising swift action to make things better.

Pat will find it hard to do a press conference today as he's in Ireland for the weekend.