Tommy Robinson

[Kato]

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Your state is secular without some religious trappings/prejudice due to conservatism.

You can believe in anything you want, I'd say, as long as you keep it away from the rules that govern how we do things.

Christian sects have done enough damage to the UK. They've probably ruined Scottish football too.

26 Bishops sit in the House of Lords. A hereditory Monarch is leader of the default religious sect.

Quaint/Weird



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[The Tubs]

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26 Bishops sit in the House of Lords. A hereditory Monarch is leader of the default religious sect.

Quaint/Weird



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I'd forgotten about the bishops. Would you not agree, nevertheless, that religion's influence is marginal in the UK and enlightment ideas are central to everything, even if these ideas lead many down the path of self-interest?

[Kato]

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I'd forgotten about the bishops. Would you not agree, nevertheless, that religion's influence is marginal in the UK and enlightment ideas are central to everything, even if these ideas lead many down the path of self-interest?

That's fair. Maybe the framework is inherited from the Enlightenment but 45 years of dumbed down press, edukashun and a massive dollop of neoliberalism has seen a step back toward feudalism.



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[wookie70]

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That's fair. Maybe the framework is inherited from the Enlightenment but 45 years of dumbed down press, edukashun and a massive dollop of neoliberalism has seen a step back toward feudalism.



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Religion is just a means of gaining control of a congregation often through fear or false hope. Capitalism is the same in many regards and those that control the money are the new Bishops. Robinson is there to stoke fear and will be used like Farage etc for keeping that going. Trickle down economics is the new heaven. It sounds great but you will die before you see it.

[Ozyhibby]

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Religion is just a means of gaining control of a congregation often through fear or false hope. Capitalism is the same in many regards and those that control the money are the new Bishops. Robinson is there to stoke fear and will be used like Farage etc for keeping that going. Trickle down economics is the new heaven. It sounds great but you will die before you see it.

All sounds good but doesn’t really match reality. We do have great periods where living standards rise across the board. And I’ve never seen a system which does that better than what we have.
I can be as doom and gloom about the UK as the next person, especially with the quality of leadership we have had for last 16 years but it’s still better than all the other options.
Democracy beats everything else and democracy only comes with capitalism.


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[silverhibee]

Tommy will be rattling tonight and I will sleep well in my bed, I’m happy.

[wookie70]

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All sounds good but doesn’t really match reality. We do have great periods where living standards rise across the board. And I’ve never seen a system which does that better than what we have.
I can be as doom and gloom about the UK as the next person, especially with the quality of leadership we have had for last 16 years but it’s still better than all the other options.
Democracy beats everything else and democracy only comes with capitalism.


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The illusion of democracy imo. There is no reason you couldn't have a democratic society with a different economic model. I was born in 1968 so in my lifetime we had public ownership of all the main resources of the country. Not sure we have ever had socialism in its truest form though but definitely elements of it. Capitalism had dramatically less effect back then because housing and most vital services were state provided for many. We are starting to see what capitalism will always inevitably end up with. The rich will own everything and have complete control, like the church and monarchy have in the past. At that point citizens will feel like they have little to lose and start fighting back. At the moment the rich are winning the battle and getting them to blame each other and immigrants. Not sure that will last for any length of time though.

My kids living standards are not as good as mine were and mine not as good as my dads and that is essentially the story of Neo-Capitalism. It may work for a while as public infrastructure and services are sold and that money used to prop up the country but inevitably it is all gone. The rich own everything and have all the levers of control. They run the democracy after citizens have voted for either a home or away kit of the same team.

[Ozyhibby]

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The illusion of democracy imo. There is no reason you couldn't have a democratic society with a different economic model. I was born in 1968 so in my lifetime we had public ownership of all the main resources of the country. Not sure we have ever had socialism in its truest form though but definitely elements of it. Capitalism had dramatically less effect back then because housing and most vital services were state provided for many. We are starting to see what capitalism will always inevitably end up with. The rich will own everything and have complete control, like the church and monarchy have in the past. At that point citizens will feel like they have little to lose and start fighting back. At the moment the rich are winning the battle and getting them to blame each other and immigrants. Not sure that will last for any length of time though.

My kids living standards are not as good as mine were and mine not as good as my dads and that is essentially the story of Neo-Capitalism. It may work for a while as public infrastructure and services are sold and that money used to prop up the country but inevitably it is all gone. The rich own everything and have all the levers of control. They run the democracy after citizens have voted for either a home or away kit of the same team.

We have a problem just now with housing but te reality is the most kids have a better life than their parents under our current system.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

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I'd forgotten about the bishops. Would you not agree, nevertheless, that religion's influence is marginal in the UK and enlightenment ideas are central to everything, even if these ideas lead many down the path of self-interest?

this is an interesting point IMO, because I don't think the enlightenment was necessarily the break from religion that people see it as - it was very much tied in with the reformation and protestantism, which are arguably the 'spiritual' seat of individualism, in that people no longer had to access their god via an institution's interpretation to the same extent...?

It's not a coincidence that there was a scientific revolution after the advent of Islam...I'm totally incapable of doing this subject matter justice, but I'd well recommend a book called 'How Religion Evolved (and why it endures)' by Robin Dunbar. It sort of lays out a perspective on religion that explains it without judgement on the truth/falsity of the beliefs, and rather looking at what the functions of these beliefs/practices are. It's great to know about, particularly as someone who isn't religious, as it inoculates against some more reductionist thinking atheists are often guilty of.