Monty

[Paulie Walnuts]

Because we’ve been **** since he came in, we’re not good to watch. We cannae defend. He’s not addressed that.

He doesn’t deserve more time.

:agree:

The idea we could finish bottom 6 but there’ll be positives doesn’t align with me.

We were top 6 at the end of January. If in the period between then and the split we manage to fall further down the league from an already ***** position then I struggle to see how anyone could genuinely deem there to be signs of progression/improvements.

Bottom 6 will mean there hasn’t been an overall improvement. This fantasy idea that we could be bottom 6 but showing clear signs of improvement is nonsense.

[Gatecrasher]

Yesterday was a good test of where we are now that the recent additions to the squad have had a chance to settle in. In my opinion we are still miles away from where we should be and the defence is looking about as bad if not worse than ever. Our form and performances since about late November have been nothing but a complete shambles and I am concerned about the direction of the club and team. Having said that NM should be given to the end of the season to work things out and see if there any signs of things working out. I think thats a decent amount of time for a manager to show signs of improvement.

As far as I'm concerned the cup is all we have left to play for. We aren't getting top 6 or europe based on how we are playing. Hopefully we have enough in us to avoid relegation or play-offs, but if we do end up in that situation both NM and those who make the appointments should be binned and begin yet another transition into a new regime.

[Greensunshine]

Because we’ve been **** since he came in, we’re not good to watch. We cannae defend. He’s not addressed that.

He doesn’t deserve more time.

Spot on.

The last thing we need is to get back on the manager merry go round, it’s beyond embarrassing and the people at the club who keep making those big decisions need to be held to account.

It’s glaringly obvious that defensively we are and have been dug ***** for as long can remember. So who o’ why we haven’t brought in a couple of good experienced CB’s is beyond me.

Monty doesn’t fill me with any confidence in the way he sets up his teams and he doesn’t come across at all well when interviewed.

If only I had confidence in the people who are in charge of recruiting a good manager to find the right man for the job then I’d say his time is up!
As it stands, he can prove us all wrong in the coming weeks by beating both Dundee and Hearts.
I just don’t see that happening and then it’ll be too late.

[JimBHibees]

You know he’s lost the fans when folk are calling for his head after a 2-2 draw at Pittodrie. In previous years a manager would have got a bit of leeway after a draw at Aberdeen but it looks like the fans have completely lost patience and he’s no goodwill left in the bank. I know there are some fans still giving him a chance but his time looks up.

Not sure how representative this Board is though. Think there will be a cross section of opinion however clearly ones wanting him out will have the loudest opinions. It is an easy thing to say change the manager however as we have proven as a club this doesn't necessarily work. Personally would support him culling out a core of players who have seen off a fair number of managers and whose performance levels rollercoast from one week to next.

[Real Emerald]

I would give him until the end of the season and reassess. Makes no sense to do otherwise given the turnover in January. There have been signs of improvement however we do clearly need wins though would be good if the fans were supportive rather than getting on players backs if misplace a pass.

I don’t think fans are necessarily getting at players misplaced passes, it’s probably they are sick of watching us playing ourselves into trouble at the back and when a misplaced pass loses possession again the fans react.

He seems to have stumbled reluctantly into playing an extra midfielder after weeks of us struggling all over Scotland.

He’s not here on a managers course, he’s meant to be bringing something and making us better. Looks like he’s learning on the job, slowly.

[WhileTheChief..]

A very serious conversation needs to be had if we don’t make top six (and I’d be punting him).

If he makes top six, especially if he beats Rangers and extends the cup run, if our midfield looks better, he’s found a way for us to stop leaking goals and the improvement in our performances continues then I think he deserves next season.

Fine margins stuff again and a big few weeks for him.

But we’re only really talking about getting enough points from a mini series of matches with Dundee, Ross County and Hearts. If he falls short I don’t think he can have many complaints, mainly because he failed to put enough credit in the bank earlier in the season.

Agree with this.

I think what I'm concerned with, is the prospect of starting exit season with NM, only for us to replace him after. a few games like we did this season.

I've just watched his post match interviews from our recent games and they're a really hard watch. He doesn't sound sure about anything and I don't see how the players can have confidence in him. Just my take on it mind.

So, unless we see a dramatic upturn in results between now and the end of the season I'd replace him.

I mean proper, decent results. Not drawing with Dundee and saying how good they are this season, or how tricky it is facing Ross Co when they're in the play-off spot. You know the kinda excuses we read about so often!

Get us challenging for 4th and I'll happily eat humble pie and look forward with NM as boss next season. Finish 7th or 8th and I think he should go before the new season starts.

[sean]

And we've already got folk on here saying that performances aren't enough, if he doesn't get top six then he should go, so even if there was better performances and we could see progress post-transfer window, it's not enough.

For me matty he didn’t really need a transfer window to show signs of improvement.

He took over a team who had a good squad in Scottish terms. Not Celtic or rangers but maybe equal to hearts and Aberdeen and certainly ahead of the others.

We were not consistent under LJ but going forward we were pretty good. Defensively we were pish and that cost him in the long run.

To me monty needed to come in and find the balance between defending better with what we had without nullifying our attacking options which were exciting in vente Boyle youan.

He ripped all that up and for 4 months pre transfer window watched a whole new style and system with turgid football.

He’s then realised that these guys don’t fit his tactics and have signed another raft of players and since the window has closed we’ve seen a slight upturn of results lately but I think it will be too little too late.

Bottom line for me he didn’t need to rip it all up and start some new philosophy for the way we play he needed to work with what he had till the summer make sure we were in a European spot ( like Johnson did) and then in the summer refresh and rebrand us.

Maybe a more experienced manager would have done that?

[snedzuk]

A fair assessment and matches my thoughts, was furious after the St Mirren game and wanted Monty sacked, however, there has been a bit of a turnaround, a point at Pittodrie is never a bad result. Dundee and Ross County x2 are huge, 9 points are a must, Hearts and Rangers are free hits and a good performance will probably suffice. The 9 points against Dundee and Ross County are far from a given though. Will be an interesting few weeks.

Not disagreeing, but this is where we are now. A game against Hearts is a free hit.

[matty_f]

:agree:

The idea we could finish bottom 6 but there’ll be positives doesn’t align with me.

We were top 6 at the end of January. If in the period between then and the split we manage to fall further down the league from an already ***** position then I struggle to see how anyone could genuinely deem there to be signs of progression/improvements.

Bottom 6 will mean there hasn’t been an overall improvement. This fantasy idea that we could be bottom 6 but showing clear signs of improvement is nonsense.

Our results against the bottom six sides, Aberdeen aside, have been poor so far this season.

If we are bottom six and win the five remaining games, is that not clear sign of improvement?

At what point of Stubbs not meeting his KPIs would you have sacked him?

[B.H.F.C]

Even if he's clearly hopeless? He cost us points and performances for months stubbornly sticking to his formation. 20 odd games later he randomly decides to change it. Months of dross for nothing. How does he have any credibility? The players must be wondering whats going on.

He’s changed formation to the one everyone wanted and the main issue persists.

Our biggest issue hasn’t been, and isn’t, the formation. It’s an inability to defend. Where he wasn’t terribly responsible for it pre January, he is now having failed to properly address it.

[WeeRussell]

Folk were absolutely calling for him to go. Not at the same level as here but it's not true to say there were hardly any calls for him to go.

Yep - This place was rife with calls for him to go before the Scottish cup final.

Having said that, I don’t know anyone in the real world that wanted rid.

That disparity occurs quite often you won’t be surprised to hear, especially these days.

[Hermit Crab]

Not disagreeing, but this is where we are now. A game against Hearts is a free hit.


We're now looking at an Edinburgh derby as free hit? A game against our city rivals is a free hit and it's ok if we lose? Is that how far we have fallen? Unbelievable.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Our results against the bottom six sides, Aberdeen aside, have been poor so far this season.

If we are bottom six and win the five remaining games, is that not clear sign off improvement?

At what point of Stubbs not meeting his KPIs would you have sacked him?

No, it’s not clear signs of improvement. It’s a bottom half finish. That’s regression from last season and even regression from January.

If we are bottom 6 at the split he shouldn’t be in post for the post split games.

[matty_f]

No, it’s not clear signs of improvement. It’s a bottom half finish. That’s regression from last season and even regression from January.

If we are bottom 6 at the split he shouldn’t be in post for the post split games.

:aok: right you are.

[GreenCastle]

If he loses to Dundee - I can’t imagine anyone will want him to stay surely.

Pretty bad situation to be into going game by game to keep the manager of the club long term.

Worst part of all this and shown on social media and message boards he’s split the fans and pissed off many and worse of all stopped many ST attending ER for home games or planning to renew - that’s not what the club needs.

If he had unity and was just losing games / dropping points then it would be a different type of support but many are still very frustrated and fed up with the club as very little signs of progress and a lot of straw clutching.

[Paulie Walnuts]

:aok: right you are.

If you think beating the worst teams in the league in mostly dead rubber games having not managed to gain enough points in the games to get top 6 would be a clear sign of improvement then crack on, you’re perfectly entitled to be pleased with that should you wish.

[Hermit Crab]

If he loses to Dundee - I can’t imagine anyone will want him to stay surely.

Pretty bad situation to be into going game by game to keep the manager of the club long term.

Worst part of all this and shown on social media and message boards he’s split the fans and pissed off many and worse of all stopped many ST attending ER for home games or planning to renew - that’s not what the club needs.

If he had unity and was just losing games / dropping points then it would be a different type of support but many are still very frustrated and fed up with the club as very little signs of progress and a lot of straw clutching.



If we lose to Dundee we better start looking over our shoulder because we will almost certainly be in a relegation playoff fight which is unacceptable given our budget and current playing staff. We are not 'too good' to go down.

[Henderson2Del]

What has he shown to deserve to stay? Did I read his record is worse than LJ?

[007]

They also had a Championship standard squad, most on two year contracts so he had to go with that when they came back up. Since then he's brought his own players in to improve the team and has improved the players there.

Meanwhile we have a manager who has managed to make the players we have worse and the team is sitting five points off the top six, yet some think this is acceptable. It's completely baffling.

So McInnes is allowed leeway for the squad he inherited but Montgomery isn't. McInnes had 3 transfer windows and still had Kilmarnock 1 point off 12th place with 6 games to go. He only avoided the playoff spot on the last day of the season.

McInnes brought in 13 players in the summer window when they came up, how is that having to go with what he had? Plus he'd had a window before that.

What players that he inherited has he improved? He certainly hasn't improved Fraser Murray.

If anything, the McInnes example shows that a manager should be given time to bring in his own players. McInnes has now had 5 windows, it's only 2 weeks since the end of Montgomery's 1st window.

[matty_f]

If you think beating the worst teams in the league in mostly dead rubber games having not managed to gain enough points in the games to get top 6 would be a clear sign of improvement then crack on, you’re perfectly entitled to be pleased with that should you wish.

I never said I was pleased with any of it. I was pointing out that it's possible to both fail to make the top six and show signs of improvement, which you ridiculously labelled as fantasy.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I never said I was pleased with any of it. I was pointing out that it's possible to both fail to make the top six and show signs of improvement, which you ridiculously labelled as fantasy.

It’s not improvement imo.

You don’t fall further down the league whilst improving. It’s ridiculous to label that as improvement.

[BoomtownHibees]

I never said I was pleased with any of it. I was pointing out that it's possible to both fail to make the top six and show signs of improvement, which you ridiculously labelled as fantasy.

What would the improvement be if we don’t make the top 6?

[Hermit Crab]

I never said I was pleased with any of it. I was pointing out that it's possible to both fail to make the top six and show signs of improvement, which you ridiculously labelled as fantasy.


Failing to make the top 6 very much puts us at risk of relegation. Thats not improvement. Thats implosion.

[VoltaireHibs]

Failing to make the top 6 very much puts us at risk of relegation. Thats not improvement. Thats implosion.

I agree. And I would not want to see this squad and manager scrapping in a relegation battle. Not sure we have the stomach for it.

I'm also coming to the definite conclusion that Month is actually just a bit of a thicko. These interviews, jeeze.

[snedzuk]

We're now looking at an Edinburgh derby as free hit? A game against our city rivals is a free hit and it's ok if we lose? Is that how far we have fallen? Unbelievable.

All the more so when the last one was far from that, so what's happened in the period in between.

[WeeRussell]

If (to clarify I’m not for a second saying I believe we will, to save any further unnecessary back and forth) we won the Scottish cup, would that be improvement?

[easty]

So McInnes is allowed leeway for the squad he inherited but Montgomery isn't. McInnes had 3 transfer windows and still had Kilmarnock 1 point off 12th place with 6 games to go. He only avoided the playoff spot on the last day of the season.

McInnes brought in 13 players in the summer window when they came up, how is that having to go with what he had? Plus he'd had a window before that.

What players that he inherited has he improved? He certainly hasn't improved Fraser Murray.

If anything, the McInnes example shows that a manager should be given time to bring in his own players. McInnes has now had 5 windows, it's only 2 weeks since the end of Montgomery's 1st window.

You’re just completely ignoring that the goals and expectations at Killie are different to at Hibs.

As for what players has he improved - Danny Armstrong?

[007]

It’s not improvement imo.

You don’t fall further down the league whilst improving. It’s ridiculous to label that as improvement.

Using your barometer of league position, we've improved since Montgomery took us over in 10th place.

[WeeRussell]

Using your barometer of league position, we've improved since Montgomery took us over in 10th place.

What a good point. Given the previous posts and how concise and clear that is.. you’d think that’ll just be accepted and not argued to death now.

[Smartie]

Agree with this.

I think what I'm concerned with, is the prospect of starting exit season with NM, only for us to replace him after. a few games like we did this season.

I've just watched his post match interviews from our recent games and they're a really hard watch. He doesn't sound sure about anything and I don't see how the players can have confidence in him. Just my take on it mind.

So, unless we see a dramatic upturn in results between now and the end of the season I'd replace him.

I mean proper, decent results. Not drawing with Dundee and saying how good they are this season, or how tricky it is facing Ross Co when they're in the play-off spot. You know the kinda excuses we read about so often!

Get us challenging for 4th and I'll happily eat humble pie and look forward with NM as boss next season. Finish 7th or 8th and I think he should go before the new season starts.

Agree with all of this - and I share the concerns in the second paragraph in particular.

I’m already a bit anxious about losing all these loan players, the experienced players and the level of rebuild that’s going to be required. I’ve also got a bit of trepidation alongside the excitement that comes with the Foley money, as I see us being somewhere that a lot of players pass through briefly.

I expect to see a lot of transfer activity late in the window and we can’t afford the absolute shambles that was punting a manager in mid-August, absolutely the worst time to change a manager. We need to be decisive, which means either punting him early or properly supporting him, even if we have a ropey start to next season with a threadbare squad, which is quite likely to happen.

[Greenio]

What is it they say about insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Can anyone tell me with a straight face that sacking managers in the way we have has worked out for us?

For once, for the love of god, can we just back a manager and staff and commit to a long term strategy.

Give them a summer transfer/full pre season. Top 6 or not.

[matty_f]

What a good point. Given the previous posts and how concise and clear that is.. you’d think that’ll just be accepted and not argued to death now.

Good luck with that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Using your barometer of league position, we've improved since Montgomery took us over in 10th place.

Bit different when you’re using league position from 4 games in though.

After game week 1 each season, half the leagues in the world will have teams top who are never going to win it. That doesn’t mean these teams are regressing by not staying top though.

[Real Emerald]

There’s also the borefest factor, his style of football is neither exciting or productive in getting results. It’s a hard watch and where I sit there’s a lot of long term fans totally fed up with it. It’s a chore going to watch his team play.

[Baldy Foghorn]

There’s also the borefest factor, his style of football is neither exciting or productive in getting results. It’s a hard watch and where I sit there’s a lot of long term fans totally fed up with it. It’s a chore going to watch his team play.

We have been better in league games since the St Mirren disaster

[easty]

What is it they say about insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Can anyone tell me with a straight face that sacking managers in the way we have has worked out for us?

For once, for the love of god, can we just back a manager and staff and commit to a long term strategy.

Give them a summer transfer/full pre season. Top 6 or not.

The sacking of previous managers has absolutely nothing to do with Nick Montgomery.

Sticking with a failing manager just because we sacked other failing managers is far closer to the definition of insanity in my opinion.

[Real Emerald]

We have been better in league games since the St Mirren disaster

That is true but it’s taken him too long to realise we were getting overrun in midfield. He could surely have realised that much earlier if he had anything about him.

[Baldy Foghorn]

That is true but it’s taken him too long to realise we were getting overrun in midfield. He could surely have realised that much earlier if he had anything about him.

Indeed.

[B.H.F.C]

We have been better in league games since the St Mirren disaster

The last three games, since St Mirren, have been a much better watch.

Mixture of having some better players on the park, the change of shape and not pissing about with the ball at the back as much.

We still can’t defend but the attacking intent and general appetite for the game has been much better.

[Baldy Foghorn]

The last three games, since St Mirren, have been a much better watch.

Mixture of having some better players on the park, the change of shape and not pissing about with the ball at the back as much.

We still can’t defend but the attacking intent and general appetite for the game has been much better.

Agreed 👍

[Greenio]

The sacking of previous managers has absolutely nothing to do with Nick Montgomery.

Sticking with a failing manager just because we sacked other failing managers is far closer to the definition of insanity in my opinion.

Disagree. Our 'strategy', which has been to hire then fire managers based on short term performance has got everything to do with sacking NM. It's just history repeating.

It's not worked. Change it

[One Day Soon]

What is it they say about insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Can anyone tell me with a straight face that sacking managers in the way we have has worked out for us?

For once, for the love of god, can we just back a manager and staff and commit to a long term strategy.

Give them a summer transfer/full pre season. Top 6 or not.


No.

The same thing we've been doing over and over is appointing the wrong managers and making the wrong signings. We've got two kids running the club who have no football experience and they've been self-indulgently playing Moneyball/Football Manager with a club that means everything to us and a hell of a lot less to them.

For once, for the love of God, can we just appoint a manager fit for the job and commit to a long term signing strategy designed to build a squad rather than generate future sales?

[Smartie]

What is it they say about insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Can anyone tell me with a straight face that sacking managers in the way we have has worked out for us?

For once, for the love of god, can we just back a manager and staff and commit to a long term strategy.

Give them a summer transfer/full pre season. Top 6 or not.

Sacking Calderwood probably saved us from relegation.

Sacking Duffy and appointing McLeish earlier might well have saved us, likewise had we got rid of Butcher earlier.

If you’ve got the wrong guy, you’ve got the wrong guy and you need to deal with it.

[007]

Bit different when you’re using league position from 4 games in though.

After game week 1 each season, half the leagues in the world will have teams top who are never going to win it. That doesn’t mean these teams are regressing by not staying top though.

And since we were in the top 6 near the end of January we've been overtaken by Dundee who have played 2 more games than us since then. The last 2 being home to St Johnstone and home to Ross County.

[Baldy Foghorn]

And since we were in the top 6 near the end of January we've been overtaken by Dundee who have played 2 more games than us since then. The last 2 being home to St Johnstone and home to Ross County.

Dundee and us have played same number of games, 25 each

[Greensunshine]

What is it they say about insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Can anyone tell me with a straight face that sacking managers in the way we have has worked out for us?

For once, for the love of god, can we just back a manager and staff and commit to a long term strategy.

Give them a summer transfer/full pre season. Top 6 or not.


I’m kinda with you on this but I’m afraid that we lose our next two, the voices for him to go will become louder and he’ll be away.

However, beat Dundee and he stays on the magic carpet ride a wee bit longer!

I can only see us taking a sore one at Tynie after that. Our defensive frailties are there for all to see. Monty needs to take responsibility for us being so ***** at the back.

[Billy Whizz]

The title of this thread is not Hibs Class

[B.H.F.C]

I’m kinda with you on this but I’m afraid that we lose our next two, the voices for him to go will become louder and he’ll be away.

However, beat Dundee and he stays on the magic carpet ride a wee bit longer!

I can only see us taking a sore one at Tynie after that. Our defensive frailties are there for all to see. Monty needs to take responsibility for us being so ***** at the back.

I’m no entirely sure why, but I’ve never really wanted rid. Will caveat that by saying I wouldn’t be particularly concerned if he was to go. The St Mirren game was as bad as anything I’ve ever seen and I don’t think there could have been any complaints had he been away after that. There have been signs of recovery since then but that needs to turn in to points now. We’ve got plenty opportunities to get wins in the next 4 or 5 weeks, has to happen now or he’s done.

[jeffers]

Not sure how representative this Board is though. Think there will be a cross section of opinion however clearly ones wanting him out will have the loudest opinions. It is an easy thing to say change the manager however as we have proven as a club this doesn't necessarily work. Personally would support him culling out a core of players who have seen off a fair number of managers and whose performance levels rollercoast from one week to next.


I’ve read this or similar more than once. Out of interest who are those players who have seen off a fair number of managers and how many of them were playing yesterday ?

[Greenio]

Sacking Calderwood probably saved us from relegation.

Sacking Duffy and appointing McLeish earlier might well have saved us, likewise had we got rid of Butcher earlier.

If you’ve got the wrong guy, you’ve got the wrong guy and you need to deal with it.

I'm not trying to change anyones mind here.

My view is that we need to change what we've been doing because it clearly has not worked.

You can't build for success when you keep flattening the foundations every 8 months

[coldingham hibs]

The last three games, since St Mirren, have been a much better watch.

Mixture of having some better players on the park, the change of shape and not pissing about with the ball at the back as much.

We still can’t defend but the attacking intent and general appetite for the game has been much better.

The game against Celtic was definitely a big improvement, but let’s be honest Celtic are not the Celtic of last season. Inverness was a good result & second half performance was decent. To concede 22 shots, 12 on target against Aberdeen, a team who have been having an equally poor season is not a great stat. I felt the performance yesterday lacked desire, our attacking players barely had the ball and or midfield was never close to the Aberdeen players. Defensively we were very ropey. Aberdeen really should have won this game barring a catastrophic error by Devlin. I was hoping to see the passion & desire shown in the second half of the Celtic game but there was nothing like that in my opinion. Going through the motions isn’t going to achieve anything and that’s how we are performing.

[Donegal Hibby]

Have to say I'm really surprised by the reaction of some on here to yesterday's result , you'd almost think we had lost and took a right doing instead of getting a decent draw away from home on a ground that both the old firm have failed to win on this season .

[Henderson2Del]

The title of this thread is not Hibs Class

Neither is the manager

[easty]

I'm not trying to change anyones mind here.

My view is that we need to change what we've been doing because it clearly has not worked.

You can't build for success when you keep flattening the foundations every 8 months

In the last 10 years we’ve had Stubbs here for 2 years, Lennon 2.5 years, Lee Johnson was here 15 months. Jack Ross over 2 years.

We don’t keep doing what you’re saying.

[B.H.F.C]

The game against Celtic was definitely a big improvement, but let’s be honest Celtic are not the Celtic of last season. Inverness was a good result & second half performance was decent. To concede 22 shots, 12 on target against Aberdeen, a team who have been having an equally poor season is not a great stat. I felt the performance yesterday lacked desire, our attacking players barely had the ball and or midfield was never close to the Aberdeen players. Defensively we were very ropey. Aberdeen really should have won this game barring a catastrophic error by Devlin. I was hoping to see the passion & desire shown in the second half of the Celtic game but there was nothing like that in my opinion. Going through the motions isn’t going to achieve anything and that’s how we are performing.

I don’t read too much in to the number of shots Aberdeen had yesterday. We have an inability to defend, we know that, but at the game it never felt like they were creating chance after chance or anything like that. There were loads of scrappy a half chances and shots from distance. We actually had loads of opportunities, especially first half, where we picked the wrong option, didn’t get a shot away or whatever which don’t register in the stats but were really good chances.

Thought yesterday was a pretty even game and a point wasn’t a disaster up there. As long as we follow up with a home win on Saturday.

[MikeyS]

Disagree. Our 'strategy', which has been to hire then fire managers based on short term performance has got everything to do with sacking NM. It's just history repeating.

It's not worked. Change it

Think you are miles off with this! I may be picking you up wrong but are you saying you'd keep him even if we drop in to play off positions just to save us having to sack another man cos its turning in to a bit of a habit.

The real problem is consistently appointing duds. But that deserves another thread all together

[Greenio]

In the last 10 years we’ve had Stubbs here for 2 years, Lennon 2.5 years, Lee Johnson was here 15 months. Jack Ross over 2 years.

We don’t keep doing what you’re saying.


2 of them left us so you can't really include them when you're talking about sacking managers.

Maybe my figures were out a bit yes, but you know what I'm getting at.

Ross is a prime example of short term thinking

[hibeerealist]

Sacking Calderwood probably saved us from relegation.

Sacking Duffy and appointing McLeish earlier might well have saved us, likewise had we got rid of Butcher earlier.

If you’ve got the wrong guy, you’ve got the wrong guy and you need to deal with it.


Very well put, I believe 99% of us Hibs fans wanted it to work for Maloney, Johnson and now Monty, but as Smartie has put it, wrong guy you need to get rid.

[LewysGot2]

I’ve read this or similar more than once. Out of interest who are those players who have seen off a fair number of managers and how many of them were playing yesterday ?

It's weird that, eh?

Obviously it's Martin Boyle and Newell. I mean, who else can it be?

The players I suspect that are being alluded to have already gone or are injured or are not playing.


And Boyle and Newell (imho) both have been instrumental in the ship being steadied a little of late.

[sean]

It's weird that, eh?

Obviously it's Martin Boyle and Newell. I mean, who else can it be?

The players I suspect that are being alluded to have already gone or are injured or are not playing.


And Boyle and Newell (imho) both have been instrumental in the ship being steadied a little of late.

I don’t think the core group of players over the last few years are the problem it’s the supporting cast that we’ve recruited have been a massive let down.

[LewysGot2]

I don’t think the core group of players over the last few years are the problem it’s the supporting cast that we’ve recruited have been a massive let down.

I think that's very reasonable thinking...

[Brightside]

Yep - This place was rife with calls for him to go before the Scottish cup final.

Having said that, I don’t know anyone in the real world that wanted rid.

That disparity occurs quite often you won’t be surprised to hear, especially these days.

Spot on. This forum is miles away from being a barometer for fans opinion.

[jeffers]

It's weird that, eh?

Obviously it's Martin Boyle and Newell. I mean, who else can it be?

The players I suspect that are being alluded to have already gone or are injured or are not playing.


And Boyle and Newell (imho) both have been instrumental in the ship being steadied a little of late.


I don’t think the core group of players over the last few years are the problem it’s the supporting cast that we’ve recruited have been a massive let down.

:agree: Yet we regularly get posts that suggest the same players have seen off multiple managers but that doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. Of that team yesterday the only starters who predated Monty were Boyle, Newell and Marshall.

[Itsnoteasy]

Fair enough what you think of our form but Hearts form has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to our situation other than an injury time wonder strike to beat us. You really are a strange one. It’s not healthy.

Got to agree, why do people keep on harping on about Hertz & their form, hotel,FOH,stadium, Ann Budge etc etc. Who gives a £u3k.

[scm70nyd1973]

I would like it if it all worked out for Monty but I fear not given the involvement of Foley who will expect a good return on his money. I know he isn’t supposed to have control over this (changing a Msnager) but I bet you there will be something indirect about what HIBS do vis-a-vis the Manager.

I know it’s a bit pie in the sky stuff but I’d be quite happy to see next season’s cash spent on getting Moyes on board (he’s on his way out of WHU I’m afraid) and just an entire new defence and one excellent midfielder who could turn our MF right around.

There has been chat about challenging the Erse Cheeks but jeeezoh we have to first knock the Poppy Pilferers off their perch and not for just one season 🙏

[sean]

:agree: Yet we regularly get posts that suggest the same players have seen off multiple managers but that doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. Of that team yesterday the only starters who predated Monty were Boyle, Newell and Marshall.

Whats seen off these latest lot of managers is the poor recruitment over several windows which can be traced back to jack ross added to that all 3 of the managers since him didn't know the league.

poor player recruitment and left field managerial appointments merged together create the current mess that we find ourselves in. 6 windows after jack ross, many millions spent of fees, wages and pays offs for managers and players we haven't progressed one bit.

[matty_f]

Have to say I'm really surprised by the reaction of some on here to yesterday's result , you'd almost think we had lost and took a right doing instead of getting a decent draw away from home on a ground that both the old firm have failed to win on this season .

I can understand it to a point because of the run we're on, but I do think it's a massive overreaction to a game that could easily have gone either way going into the match and for a performance that really wasn't that bad.

Hearts, as much as some folk thrash themselves into a frenzy at how brilliant they are, lost at a Pittodrie on their last visit. It's not a gimme that we can just turn up, play well, and win.

[sean]

I can understand it to a point because of the run we're on, but I do think it's a massive overreaction to a game that could easily have gone either way going into the match and for a performance that really wasn't that bad.

Hearts, as much as some folk thrash themselves into a frenzy at how brilliant they are, lost at a Pittodrie on their last visit. It's not a gimme that we can just turn up, play well, and win.

Was there yesterday Matty, players got a decent reception at the end from the traveling fans. What I will say is that people are maybe more ****ed off that the same things keep happening week after week. middle to front we looked better and definitely becoming more of threat with the new signings BUT the same awful defending is maybe what's getting to people.

We simply won't win games of football if we continue to give away goals like that.

[Brightside]

Even if we beat them yesterday there would still be a majority somehow saying it’s only coz Aberdeen are rubbish. Just like when we came 3rd. There is a majority of posters unfortunately who just love misery. I just hope they find some joy away from Hibs.

[Unseen work]

You try stay positive until you see this

https://x.com/hibscentral/status/1759216680750764089?s=46&t=jmxs-mZWT_cnYbURW-GKJw

3 points in 8 games and hearts now 24 points ahead of us

[Brightside]

Neither is the manager

He’s the very epitome of Hibs class. Results may not be going his way. But he’s a throughly decent human being.

[Brightside]

You try stay positive until you see this

https://x.com/hibscentral/status/1759216680750764089?s=46&t=jmxs-mZWT_cnYbURW-GKJw

3 points in 8 games and hearts now 24 points ahead of us

Hibs central is a wee fanny.

[WhileTheChief..]

Even if we beat them yesterday there would still be a majority somehow saying it’s only coz Aberdeen are rubbish. Just like when we came 3rd. There is a majority of posters unfortunately who just love misery. I just hope they find some joy away from Hibs.

Total made up nonsense.

Folk just see things differently to you.

[matty_f]

Was there yesterday Matty, players got a decent reception at the end from the traveling fans. What I will say is that people are maybe more ****ed off that the same things keep happening week after week. middle to front we looked better and definitely becoming more of threat with the new signings BUT the same awful defending is maybe what's getting to people.

We simply won't win games of football if we continue to give away goals like that.

The defending is enough to turn my hair grey.

[Greenio]

Think you are miles off with this! I may be picking you up wrong but are you saying you'd keep him even if we drop in to play off positions just to save us having to sack another man cos its turning in to a bit of a habit.

The real problem is consistently appointing duds. But that deserves another thread all together

I'm sounding like a broken record.

We don't appoint duds, they just get called duds by some because they dont meet fan expectations in (in my view unrealistic) expected time frames

I think the current managerial and backroom setup can come good, and that we should realise that what we've been doing has not worked and it's time to think longer term by giving them the summer transfer and pre-season.

imo.

[Shrekko]

I don’t think the core group of players over the last few years are the problem it’s the supporting cast that we’ve recruited have been a massive let down.

Absolute common sense.

Do Spurs fans blame Lloris, Son and Kane for not winning anything the past 7/8 years? No, it's the guys they had around them that were sub-standard.

And no, that doesn't mean I think OUR long servers are world beaters- just that THEY are not the ones to focus on for perceived failures.

[sean]

I'm sounding like a broken record.

We don't appoint duds, they just get called duds by some because they dont meet (in my view unrealistic) fan expectations in (in my view unrealistic) expected time frames

I think the current managerial and backroom setup can come good, and that we should realise that what we've been doing has not worked and it's time to think longer term by giving them the summer transfer and pre-season.

imo.

out of interest what's your expectations over a season?

Mines is a top 5 finish pure and simple. A run deep into both cups if the draws are kind to us. Not unrealistic.

Id like to know what makes you feel the new manager can come good based on what we've seen from his first 20 odd matches.

[Donegal Hibby]

The defending is enough to turn my hair grey.

Defending on the two goals was really poor especially the 2nd one . I couldn't help notice the bounce the ball took on the first one was almost like a rugby balls .

Our 2nd goal how late is the linesman putting up his flag . Crazy rule how they leave it so late now .

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/13074267/aberdeen-2-2-hibernian-scottish-premiership-highlights

[Broken Gnome]

Defending on the two goals was really poor especially the 2nd one . I couldn't help notice the bounce the ball took on the first one was almost like a rugby balls .

Our 2nd goal how late is the linesman putting up his flag . Crazy rule how they leave it so late now .

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/13074267/aberdeen-2-2-hibernian-scottish-premiership-highlights

If he put it up earlier we'd have lost 2-1.

[LunasBoots]

One thing for me is since we've modernised with that huge pitch at home its never given us much of a advantage as many thought it would. You look at other teams in the league they use there home grounds as a way to gain a advantage, we've never really done that. Anyone have the stats since we've modernised and the stats in the same time frame before just out of interest?

[Greenio]

out of interest what's your expectations over a season?

Mines is a top 5 finish pure and simple. A run deep into both cups if the draws are kind to us. Not unrealistic.

Id like to know what makes you feel the new manager can come good based on what we've seen from his first 20 odd matches.

My expectation changes based on what we're working with and how long the manager has had to work with it.

Right now, I'd say about the same as you but I don't have a hard line of fire the manager/keep the manager based on what could be a point or two.

I think it's more of a question of whether the negative impact firing him outweighs that of not firing him

For me, it does

Im sick tae ***in death of firing managers!!!! So, if that makes me a happy clapper or whatever, fine, watch me happy clap away!!!

I'm done with repeating this broken system.

[Hibeesdaft16]

So McInnes is allowed leeway for the squad he inherited but Montgomery isn't. McInnes had 3 transfer windows and still had Kilmarnock 1 point off 12th place with 6 games to go. He only avoided the playoff spot on the last day of the season.

McInnes brought in 13 players in the summer window when they came up, how is that having to go with what he had? Plus he'd had a window before that.

What players that he inherited has he improved? He certainly hasn't improved Fraser Murray.

If anything, the McInnes example shows that a manager should be given time to bring in his own players. McInnes has now had 5 windows, it's only 2 weeks since the end of Montgomery's 1st window.

McInness took over Kilmarnock and instantly made them better. He got them promoted, job done. He then kept them in the Premier League with a Championship squad he had to keep as they were mainly on 2 and 3 year deals, job done.

Danny Armstrong for one.

Monty has managed to make the squad of players we have worse and we are bottom six rubbish with a top 5 budget. How can you seriously compare the two?

[Henderson2Del]

He’s the very epitome of Hibs class. Results may not be going his way. But he’s a throughly decent human being.

We are. A football team with the objective of winning games, that what we need a class manager to do, being a thoroughly decent human being is lovely but it doesn’t win games.

We need far far better

[Donegal Hibby]

If he put it up earlier we'd have lost 2-1.

In the recent Newcastle United v man city game there was a Newcastle player offside that was so obvious a child could see it though the play continued and the linesman did flag though only after a collision were the city keeper had to go off injured . Awhile after that on another clear offside the linesman raised his flag right away.

Our one was tight when he flagged which he shouldn't have without being sure on it anyhow though there's a lot were plays been allowed to carry on when there clear as day offside which is just wasting time, players energy and like the game i mentioned risking a injury happening too .

[thebausburst]

McInness took over Kilmarnock and instantly made them better. He got them promoted, job done. He then kept them in the Premier League with a Championship squad he had to keep as they were mainly on 2 and 3 year deals, job done.

Danny Armstrong for one.

Monty has managed to make the squad of players we have worse and we are bottom six rubbish with a top 5 budget. How can you seriously compare the two?

The difference between Monty and McInnes is - McInness is proven over many years at this level with a comparable sized club i.e, at Aberdeen he won the Scottish League Cup, finished Scottish Premiership runners-up on four occasions and reached three other cup finals. The guy is proven in this league for delivering basically exactly what Hibs board have set they want to achieve, regular European qualification, latter stages of cups including the odd win. Monty has only 60 odd games managerial experience in a poorer league where Jason Cummings, who couldn’t get a game for Dundee, is considered a star player.

[Hibeesdaft16]

The difference between Monty and McInnes is - McInness is proven over many years at this level with a comparable sized club i.e, at Aberdeen he won the Scottish League Cup, finished Scottish Premiership runners-up on four occasions and reached three other cup finals. The guy is proven in this league for delivering basically exactly what Hibs board have set they want to achieve, regular European qualification, latter stages of cups including the odd win. Monty has only 60 odd games managerial experience in a poorer league where Jason Cummings, who couldn’t get a game for Dundee, is considered a star player.

:agree::agree: but, but, but will somebody think of the rubbish fitba'? :rolleyes:

[Hiber-nation]

Even if we beat them yesterday there would still be a majority somehow saying it’s only coz Aberdeen are rubbish. Just like when we came 3rd. There is a majority of posters unfortunately who just love misery. I just hope they find some joy away from Hibs.

The majority on here love misery? That's just OTT nonsense. No idea why you bother posting if that's what you think.

[sean]

My expectation changes based on what we're working with and how long the manager has had to work with it.

Right now, I'd say about the same as you but I don't have a hard line of fire the manager/keep the manager based on what could be a point or two.

I think it's more of a question of whether the negative impact firing him outweighs that of not firing him

For me, it does

Im sick tae ***in death of firing managers!!!! So, if that makes me a happy clapper or whatever, fine, watch me happy clap away!!!

I'm done with repeating this broken system.

I would also describe myself as a happy clapper. This season though im struggling to happy clap 6 wins in 25. I think the manager has a very decent level of player available compared to most of the league. Its certainly the 5th best squad and judging by the latest set of accounts we are spending eye watering amounts of cash on players and wages.

If we had pat fenlons hibs or Colin calderwoods teams then id temper my expectations. This is a good group of players especially midfielders and forwards who should be doing miles better than 6 wins in 25.

Its not all on Monty but I have seen little to no progress under him to suggest we are going in the right direction.

[007]

You’re just completely ignoring that the goals and expectations at Killie are different to at Hibs.

As for what players has he improved - Danny Armstrong?

I am not ignoring it. It's you and other posters that are ignoring it. McInnes had Killie in the position below, only avoided the playoff spot on the last day of the season and had had 3 transfer windows (he's now had 5). That is worse than our eqivalent that Montgomery currently has us in, just 2 weeks after the end of his 1st window.

The poster I replied to said McInnes had improved the players that were there so if he's only actually improved 1 player then that's not very good and confirms to me he needed time and several transfer windows to bring in his own players.

https://i.ibb.co/ypSRDGc/Screenshot-20240127-171623-Gallery.jpg (https://ibb.co/nBC0TZN)

[Brightside]

The majority on here love misery? That's just OTT nonsense. No idea why you bother posting if that's what you think.

To try and lift the mood. 😂

[Hibees1973]

Cannot believe some posters reckon Montgomery is a better manager than McInnes.

What evidence do they have for this?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

To try and lift the mood. 😂

It's not going well. 😉

[WeeRussell]

To try and lift the mood. 😂

Always look on the Brightside of life 😁

[Henderson2Del]

Cannot believe some posters reckon Montgomery is a better manager than McInnes.

What evidence do they have for this?

None. Some is likely bigoted and some heads in the sand.

[Hibeesdaft16]

I am not ignoring it. It's you and other posters that are ignoring it. McInnes had Killie in the position below, only avoided the playoff spot on the last day of the season and had had 3 transfer windows (he's now had 5). That is worse than our eqivalent that Montgomery currently has us in, just 2 weeks after the end of his 1st window.

The poster I replied to said McInnes had improved the players that were there so if he's only actually improved 1 player then that's not very good and confirms to me he needed time and several transfer windows to bring in his own players.

https://i.ibb.co/ypSRDGc/Screenshot-20240127-171623-Gallery.jpg (https://ibb.co/nBC0TZN)

His remit was to keep a newly promoted team in the league. He done that. He succeeded. With a Championship squad he couldn't get rid of right away, you could argue he over achieved last year. How is that worse than taking over a team that was 5th last season and in the bottom 6th now?

I said Danny Armstrong for one. Rory McKenzie, Brad Lyons, David Watson, Danny Armstrong (as mentioned), Liam Donnelly, Liam Polworth.

[greenlex]

I’ve slept on it and am of the opinion that he should probably go if we fail to make top six at the split. With the run of fixtures we have it should be possible for a half decent manager with this squad. The only way he might be able to salvage his job would be to post split blow the rest of the bottom six away in style otherwise it should be the end.

[JimBHibees]

His remit was to keep a newly promoted team in the league. He done that. He succeeded. With a Championship squad he couldn't get rid of right away, you could argue he over achieved last year. How is that worse than taking over a team that was 5th last season and in the bottom 6th now?

I said Danny Armstrong for one. Rory McKenzie, Brad Lyons, David Watson, Danny Armstrong (as mentioned), Liam Donnelly, Liam Polworth.

What position were we when Monty took over. The bottom line is if mcinness was at Hibs last season he would have been sacked with his Killie record. He does have a huge advantage with the appalling pitch they have and his away record with them is simply atrocious. He is a proven manager of course however personally would like to give our current manager a proper chance to the end of the season.

[B.H.F.C]

I’ve slept on it and am of the opinion that he should probably go if we fail to make top six at the split. With the run of fixtures we have it should be possible for a half decent manager with this squad. The only way he might be able to salvage his job would be to post split blow the rest of the bottom six away in style otherwise it should be the end.

If we end up bottom six I think he’s blown his chance and should probably be gone. Apart from the two obvious away games, we have a good run of fixtures between now and the split. If we can’t pick up a good number of points between now and then, I’ll be disappointed.

[Hibees1973]

I think it is still really strange why The Gordons & Kensell appointed Montgomery.

You would have thought they would have learned to keep it straight forward and appoint a manager who has had success in the SPFL. Maloney (no experience) and Johnson (all flannel) were both poor fits for the club and few were disappointed to see them leave.

So, instead of looking closer to home they go to the other side of the world and appoint someone who now appears insular, stubborn and out of his depth.

Fine, we have a nice pitch, big screens, good hospitality and now more improvements to the ground. All credit to them for this, but what these things require is little thought, just money.

And this is where our main problems lie. The Gordons & Kensell have now had ample opportunity to get things right on the park. If and when Montgomery goes, does anyone really trust The Gordons & Kensell to get the most important thing right. An entertaining, successful team on the park.

[matty_f]

Cannot believe some posters reckon Montgomery is a better manager than McInnes.

What evidence do they have for this?

Are they not just making the point that McInnes wasn't an instant success and we wouldn't have tolerated the 10th place finish? I haven't seen anyone (unless I've missed the posts) where someone is saying Monty is better than McInnes.

[Hibeesdaft16]

What position were we when Monty took over. The bottom line is if mcinness was at Hibs last season he would have been sacked with his Killie record. He does have a huge advantage with the appalling pitch they have and his away record with them is simply atrocious. He is a proven manager of course however personally would like to give our current manager a proper chance to the end of the season.

We had played three league games.

If McInness was at Hibs last season he would have had much better players and resources than the Killie team he inherited and won the Championship with. There's not a chance he would have had us finish 10th.

We have two more away points than that simply atrocious away record this season btw.

On what basis do you want to give him until the end of the season if we fail to make the top six? We get to the summer then take a few weeks to appoint someone new and then we have missed the start of the transfer window. If bottom six is confirmed we should put all concentrating on next season and make sure another shambolic money losing season is avoided at all costs next season and that includes the manager.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Are they not just making the point that McInnes wasn't an instant success and we wouldn't have tolerated the 10th place finish? I haven't seen anyone (unless I've missed the posts) where someone is saying Monty is better than McInnes.

He was an instant success at Killie though. He went into them 4th in the Championship in February and the won the league.

[JimBHibees]

We had played three league games.

If McInness was at Hibs last season he would have had much better players and resources than the Killie team he inherited and won the Championship with. There's not a chance he would have had us finish 10th.

We have two more away points than that simply atrocious away record this season btw.

On what basis do you want to give him until the end of the season if we fail to make the top six? We get to the summer then take a few weeks to appoint someone new and then we have missed the start of the transfer window. If bottom six is confirmed we should put all concentrating on next season and make sure another shambolic money losing season is avoided at all costs next season and that includes the manager.

The basis that he has just for the first time brought any players in.

[Hibeesdaft16]

The basis that he has just for the first time brought any players in.

Fair enough. I'm not sure what difference that makes if most of them are on loan and we are bottom six though.

[hibeerealist]

He’s the very epitome of Hibs class. Results may not be going his way. But he’s a throughly decent human being.


My mate is a thoroughly, decent human being but I don't want him anywhere near the managers job at HFC!!

[matty_f]

He was an instant success at Killie though. He went into them 4th in the Championship in February and the won the league.

Let me rephrase it to an instant success in the top flight, where it would apparently matter most.

[Hibees1973]

Are they not just making the point that McInnes wasn't an instant success and we wouldn't have tolerated the 10th place finish? I haven't seen anyone (unless I've missed the posts) where someone is saying Monty is better than McInnes.

I've seen loads of posts from people saying they wouldn't want McInnes, under any circumstances.

The main problem we have is that The Gordons and Kensell reckoned Montgomery was a better manager than McInnes. That's why they appointed Montgomery.

[Winston Ingram]

He’s the very epitome of Hibs class. Results may not be going his way. But he’s a throughly decent human being.

That’s nice, but we aren’t paying him to be a thoroughly decent human being. We’re paying him to be a thoroughly decent football manager which absolutely is not and is showing no signs of ever becoming one.

[matty_f]

I've seen loads of posts from people saying they wouldn't want McInnes, under any circumstances.

The main problem we have is that The Gordons and Kensell reckoned Montgomery was a better manager than McInnes. That's why they appointed Montgomery.

That's different from saying Monty is better though, which is the point I was making.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Let me rephrase it to an instant success in the top flight, where it would apparently matter most.


He kept them up. That was their aim. Another success.

[Hibees1973]

That’s nice, but we aren’t paying him to be a thoroughly decent human being. We’re paying him to be a thoroughly decent football manager which absolutely is not and is showing no signs of ever becoming one.

Exactly. Don't think anyone can say Naismith is a throughly decent human being. He's a wee runt. Always has been.

But is doing a decent job at Tiny.

[Brightside]

That’s nice, but we aren’t paying him to be a thoroughly decent human being. We’re paying him to be a thoroughly decent football manager which absolutely is not and is showing no signs of ever becoming one.

We have been much better since he has got some temp players in. Trust the process

[seanshow]

The failure to organise the players in defense and stop goals from crosses or second phase knockdowns is diabolical, we are the worst in the league at it, utterly depressing.


We just passed the anniversary (16th Feb) of Heckingbottoms first game in charge, 5 managers in 5 years.

Unfortunately I'm not sure if Montgomery is the guy to give time say two or three years to sort it out and stop the sequence.

Please please, prove me wrong Nick...and hurry up about it.

[007]

The difference between Monty and McInnes is - McInness is proven over many years at this level with a comparable sized club i.e, at Aberdeen he won the Scottish League Cup, finished Scottish Premiership runners-up on four occasions and reached three other cup finals. The guy is proven in this league for delivering basically exactly what Hibs board have set they want to achieve, regular European qualification, latter stages of cups including the odd win. Monty has only 60 odd games managerial experience in a poorer league where Jason Cummings, who couldn’t get a game for Dundee, is considered a star player.

He had the 2nd biggest budget in the league for 3 years and the 3rd biggest the other 5 years. Hibs have the 5th biggest budget so it was a lot easier for him to qualify for Europe than it is for a Hibs manager.

When he had the 2nd biggest budget and finished, 3rd once and 2nd twice. Then when Rangers were back up he had the 3rd biggest budget for 5 years and came 2nd twice and 4th 3 times (though caveat the last one where he left with 6 games to go when they were 4th with 6 games to go, 3 points behind us and we had a game in hand). So that's twice he finished 1 place above budget, twice level par and 4 times 1 place below budget.

His League Cup winning run was Alloa, Falkirk, Motherwell, St Johnstone, Inverness (0-0 AET, Aberdeen won on penalties).

[Winston Ingram]

What is it they say about insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Can anyone tell me with a straight face that sacking managers in the way we have has worked out for us?

For once, for the love of god, can we just back a manager and staff and commit to a long term strategy.

Give them a summer transfer/full pre season. Top 6 or not.

Keeping him is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

It’s insanity keeping a guy who hasn’t demonstrated a single thing to suggest he knows what he’s doing just because some people felt we sacked his predecessors too early.

[Hibees1973]

We have been much better since he has got some temp players in. Trust the process

I wasn't aware there was any kind of process at Hibs over the last few years.

Perhaps you could enlighten us on what this process is?

[jakeshibs]

We had played three league games.

If McInness was at Hibs last season he would have had much better players and resources than the Killie team he inherited and won the Championship with. There's not a chance he would have had us finish 10th.

We have two more away points than that simply atrocious away record this season btw.

On what basis do you want to give him until the end of the season if we fail to make the top six? We get to the summer then take a few weeks to appoint someone new and then we have missed the start of the transfer window. If bottom six is confirmed we should put all concentrating on next season and make sure another shambolic money losing season is avoided at all costs next season and that includes the manager.


Disagree completely with post.

Sacking the manager if we fail to get top six to then, do this all over again with a new victim even trying to imply that Mcinnes would do better as we would sack him too, christ we would sack Sir Alex Ferguson if we appointed him.
Monty has already shown the class of players he wants to bring to hibs and they look a lot better than were we normally shop

Why don't we stop this merry go round of managers as that is certainly not working

[Hibeesdaft16]

We have been much better since he has got some temp players in. Trust the process


Much better? :confused:

[WhileTheChief..]

Keeping him is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

It’s insanity keeping a guy who hasn’t demonstrated a single thing to suggest he knows what he’s doing just because some people felt we sacked his predecessors too early.

Yup.I don't see why anyone would want us to stick with a manager who can't get us results, that is the mad thing to do.

Seems obvious to me that if he can't get us results, he needs replaced. Rinse and repeat until we get someone in who improves us.

I've no problem at all with a revolving door if the manager's aren't up to the Hibs' job. We just need to recruit better, which most of us have been saying since Jack Ross's days - players as well as managers.

[blackpoolhibs]

Eddie Turnbull would have been kicked out after a week because of the way he spoke to some of the kids around the ground and at training.

Nice guys win **** all in football, Pep and Klopp can be right *******s when they want to be.

[Winston Ingram]

We have been much better since he has got some temp players in. Trust the process

What process?����

He’s no got a process. It took the clown half a season longer than most people to realise the only process he had, that ridiculous 442, wasn’t working and ****ed our season.

Add to that, trust is earned. He’s done absolutely nothing to suggest he’s worthy any trust whatsoever.

Thoroughly decent human being though.����

[matty_f]

He kept them up. That was their aim. Another success.

Try telling the Killie fans that at the time. They weren't happy at all.

[Sparrows tongue]

We have been much better since he has got some temp players in. Trust the process

This so called 'process' sounds interesting. :agree:

Please be so kind as to divulge more to help us mere fans?

Thanks. :aok:

[Hibeesdaft16]

Try telling the Killie fans that at the time. They weren't happy at all.


I don't know any Killie fans mate so if you do and they weren't happy fair enough.

[Hibees1973]

What do you want when a new manager comes in?

More energy
More goals scores
Less goals conceded
Better atmosphere at the ground
Higher attendances
Increased optimism
Improved style of play

Sorry, but since Montgomery has come in none of this has happened.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Yup.I don't see why anyone would want us to stick with a manager who can't get us results, that is the mad thing to do.

Seems obvious to me that if he can't get us results, he needs replaced. Rinse and repeat until we get someone in who improves us.

I've no problem at all with a revolving door if the manager's aren't up to the Hibs' job. We just need to recruit better, which most of us have been saying since Jack Ross's days - players as well as managers.

Impossible to know, but I wonder where we'd be if we had kept Jack Ross and let him build a team.

It doesn't seem very likely that we'd be worse of than we are now - and we might have a cup win as well.

But, it's impossible to know - but it might be worth giving someone a decent run at it?

[B.H.F.C]

Exactly. Don't think anyone can say Naismith is a throughly decent human being. He's a wee runt. Always has been.

But is doing a decent job at Tiny.

Only a couple of months ago that they all wanted him out though.

Montgomery has had 25 games and has a record of W8, D9, L8.

Naismith after 25 games had a record of W9, D5, L11.

I’m not saying we’re going to go on some mental run where we win 10 out of 11 or something but I’ve seen enough in the last couple of weeks to make me think we can start picking up more positive results between now and the split, with the fixtures we have. The above comparison does show that things can change (I’m not saying it definitely will) where some of the talk suggests that it’s impossible.

[Brightside]

This so called 'process' sounds interesting. :agree:

Please be so kind as to divulge more to help us mere fans?

Thanks. :aok:

Quite simple. Give him time to build a team.

[7Hero]

How anyone has seen anything positive recently is beyond me , its like folks watch a different team, or dont watch at all...

Someone saying trust the process, surely a wind up 🤣

[blackpoolhibs]

Try telling the Killie fans that at the time. They weren't happy at all.

Fans know nothing, just look at the clowns who wanted Jack Ross sacked. :offski:

[Brightside]

What do you want when a new manager comes in?

More energy
More goals scores
Less goals conceded
Better atmosphere at the ground
Higher attendances
Increased optimism
Improved style of play

Sorry, but since Montgomery has come in none of this has happened.

This is all getting silly now. Attendances is pretty much were it always been. Atmosphere same as it’s always been. Our team has loads of energy now. I’m optimistic and I enjoy the style of football.

[Victor]

How anyone has seen anything positive recently is beyond me , its like folks watch a different team, or dont watch at all...

Someone saying trust the process, surely a wind up [emoji1787]

Or actually understand what is happening. Some people just see what they want to see, to support their own point of view.

[greenlex]

How anyone has seen anything positive recently is beyond me , its like folks watch a different team, or dont watch at all...

Someone saying trust the process, surely a wind up ��
If you haven’t seen anything positive or encouraging in the last three matches then you simply haven’t been paying attention.

[JimBHibees]

Fair enough. I'm not sure what difference that makes if most of them are on loan and we are bottom six though.

Because if it gets better we won't be bottom six

[Brightside]

How anyone has seen anything positive recently is beyond me , its like folks watch a different team, or dont watch at all...

Someone saying trust the process, surely a wind up 🤣

So you don’t think our last 3 games have been positive?

[007]

His remit was to keep a newly promoted team in the league. He done that. He succeeded. With a Championship squad he couldn't get rid of right away, you could argue he over achieved last year. How is that worse than taking over a team that was 5th last season and in the bottom 6th now?

I said Danny Armstrong for one. Rory McKenzie, Brad Lyons, David Watson, Danny Armstrong (as mentioned), Liam Donnelly, Liam Polworth.

How do you know what his remit was? He had a bigger budget than at least 3 of those clubs, maybe even 4 but had them 2nd bottom, 1 point off bottom with 6 games to go. That is not overachieving. Plus, keeping them up was because he was allowed until the end of the season yet you don't want to allow our manager until the split to see what he can get out of the team now he's had his 1st transfer window.

You are making allowances for McInnes having come up from the Championship and claiming he had a squad he couldn't get rid of right away, yet he brought in 13 players in that summer.

And if we're basing it on what a manager's remit is, what is Montgomery's remit? Was it that he has to be in the top 6 after 25 games?

[Scotty Leither]

I've seen loads of posts from people saying they wouldn't want McInnes, under any circumstances.

The main problem we have is that The Gordons and Kensell reckoned Montgomery was a better manager than McInnes. That's why they appointed Montgomery.

He was cheaper than McInnes, henceforth Ian Gordon thought cheaper meant better, and Kensell (despite having been burned with the rookie option before in Maloney) appointed someone in similar vein to the Belgium cone setter-outer.

Both should be hopefully be nowhere near the next appointment.

[eastmainsmsh]

He was cheaper than McInnes, henceforth Ian Gordon thought cheaper meant better, and Kensell (despite having been burned with the rookie option before in Maloney) appointed someone in similar vein to the Belgium cone setter-outer.

Both should be hopefully be nowhere near the next appointment.

Hopefully in time Foley takes full control we are potentially European competition every season think Kensell should stick to marketing side of club

[B.H.F.C]

He was cheaper than McInnes, henceforth Ian Gordon thought cheaper meant better, and Kensell (despite having been burned with the rookie option before in Maloney) appointed someone in similar vein to the Belgium cone setter-outer.

Both should be hopefully be nowhere near the next appointment.

I know you have a right issue about us not spending money. But do the accounts not suggest to you that we’ve actually overspent and that the real issue is misspending rather than not spending?

[sean]

Foley and his group I suspect will have a major say in who is next in the hotseat.

[WeeRussell]

He was cheaper than McInnes, henceforth Ian Gordon thought cheaper meant better, and Kensell (despite having been burned with the rookie option before in Maloney) appointed someone in similar vein to the Belgium cone setter-outer.

Both should be hopefully be nowhere near the next appointment.

Not a great use of ‘henceforth’ but I liked that you tried to get it into a post. It’s a good word.

[JimBHibees]

Only a couple of months ago that they all wanted him out though.

Montgomery has had 25 games and has a record of W8, D9, L8.

Naismith after 25 games had a record of W9, D5, L11.

I’m not saying we’re going to go on some mental run where we win 10 out of 11 or something but I’ve seen enough in the last couple of weeks to make me think we can start picking up more positive results between now and the split, with the fixtures we have. The above comparison does show that things can change (I’m not saying it definitely will) where some of the talk suggests that it’s impossible.

Good context and highlights what can happen when a bit of patience is shown. We have brought in new players some of which look better than what we have.

[Heisenberg]

He was cheaper than McInnes, henceforth Ian Gordon thought cheaper meant better, and Kensell (despite having been burned with the rookie option before in Maloney) appointed someone in similar vein to the Belgium cone setter-outer.

Both should be hopefully be nowhere near the next appointment.

They’ve wasted millions trying to achieve 3rd in the league ffs. They don’t have a problem spending money it’s how they spend it.

[Winston Ingram]

This is all getting silly now. Attendances is pretty much were it always been. Atmosphere same as it’s always been. Our team has loads of energy now. I’m optimistic and I enjoy the style of football.

The only thing that’s getting silly is your answers. Trust the process? He’s a thoroughly decent guy? Work the project for the first time in 20 years?

Your sitting asking us to ignore the ***** performances, the deterioration of pretty much every player in our squad, the awful run of results, his inability to sort our defence out, the fact he hasn’t won a league game since we fluked a win at Livingston all because he’s a thoroughly decent human and you’ve decided we must ‘trust his process’ despite him showing no evidence of having one.

As for our attendances, they are clearly down. A tonne of ST holders aren’t bothering turning up at the moment. The Celtic games was the emptiest I’ve seen ER for the visit of one of the uglies in years.

[Hibeesdaft16]

How do you know what his remit was? He had a bigger budget than at least 3 of those clubs, maybe even 4 but had them 2nd bottom, 1 point off bottom with 6 games to go. That is not overachieving. Plus, keeping them up was because he was allowed until the end of the season yet you don't want to allow our manager until the split to see what he can get out of the team now he's had his 1st transfer window.

You are making allowances for McInnes having come up from the Championship and claiming he had a squad he couldn't get rid of right away, yet he brought in 13 players in that summer.

And if we're basing it on what a manager's remit is, what is Montgomery's remit? Was it that he has to be in the top 6 after 25 games?

How do you know he had a bigger budget than three of the clubs? He brought 4 permanent players in the whole of last season. He had a championship squad and kept them up. How can you argue that's not successful?

Montys remit surely must have been to make Europe, not top six. We are 10 and 8 points off Europe behind 2 clubs with a fraction of our resources and McInness manages one of them. We are 24 points behind our biggest rivals - that is frankly a disgrace.

If he doesn't make the top six the season will be utter failure, not just a failure if we fail to make Europe. But if you are happy with the utter failure of bottom six if it happens and want the manager to stay if we achieve that then fair enough.

[Sparrows tongue]

Quite simple. Give him time to build a team.

OK, I accept that.

It sounds good on paper but, he can't do any more this season to 'build a team'.

We need him to get more out of the players we currently have this season. In my opinion, that means swallowing his pride and changing his tactics and formation as soon as bloody possible!

For me, that is 'quite simple' as you put it. :aok:

[Sparrows tongue]

This is all getting silly now. Attendances is pretty much were it always been. Atmosphere same as it’s always been. Our team has loads of energy now. I’m optimistic and I enjoy the style of football.

Seriously?

[JimBHibees]

The only thing that’s getting silly is your answers. Trust the process? He’s a thoroughly decent guy? Work the project for the first time in 20 years?

Your sitting asking us to ignore the ***** performances, the deterioration of pretty much every player in our squad, the awful run of results, his inability to sort our defence out, the fact he hasn’t won a league game since we fluked a win at Livingston all because he’s a thoroughly decent human and you’ve decided we must ‘trust his process’ despite him showing no evidence of having one.

As for our attendances, they are clearly down. A tonne of ST holders aren’t bothering turning up at the moment. The Celtic games was the emptiest I’ve seen ER for the visit of one of the uglies in years.

A game ironically we played very well in.

[jeffers]

OK, I accept that.

It sounds good on paper but, he can't do any more this season to 'build a team'.

We need him to get more out of the players we currently have this season. In my opinion, that means swallowing his pride and changing his tactics and formation as soon as bloody possible!

For me, that is 'quite simple' as you put it. :aok:

I’m on the fence about him but to say he hasn’t changed tactics and formation isn’t true.

[Scotty Leither]

I know you have a right issue about us not spending money. But do the accounts not suggest to you that we’ve actually overspent and that the real issue is misspending rather than not spending?

A bit of both to answer your question directly. I just don’t buy the £700k on Vente or £500k on Youan, I suspect that’ll be the whole contract including transfer fee, wages and agents fees (if they see the contracts out, that is).

There’s been a whole lot spent on hospitality too, which I initially bought into by buying an Albion Bar package, but I never bothered this year for various reasons, I barely drink these days so it’s not really justifiable on a personal level.

The catalyst for me mumping about the non spending as I see it, is there’s been a gaping hole in the centre of that defence for the last 3 years and there seems to be this stubborn refusal to buy anywhere near the player quality required to fill one of the key positions in any team at any level.

Instead we’ve filled it with mainly stop gaps, players that are past it, or rookies like Nathan Wood, and Triantsis (sp) whom I’ve actually felt sorry for, he’s that far off the standard needed in this league it’s not true.

I just wish Kensell would cut the BS out, stop the fireworks and opera singers before Derby games and instead give us a team to shout about ON the park and a manager we can get behind instead of one failed appointment after another.

[WhileTheChief..]

Impossible to know, but I wonder where we'd be if we had kept Jack Ross and let him build a team.

It doesn't seem very likely that we'd be worse of than we are now - and we might have a cup win as well.

But, it's impossible to know - but it might be worth giving someone a decent run at it?

Im all for it.

Next time someone gets us to 2 cup finals and a 3rd place finish, let's try and keep hold of him :aok:

[Hibeesdaft16]

Im all for it.

Next time someone gets us to 2 cup finals and a 3rd place finish, let's try and keep hold of him :aok:

:agree: be even better if the club could back that guy too.

[greenlex]

The only thing that’s getting silly is your answers. Trust the process? He’s a thoroughly decent guy? Work the project for the first time in 20 years?

Your sitting asking us to ignore the ***** performances, the deterioration of pretty much every player in our squad, the awful run of results, his inability to sort our defence out, the fact he hasn’t won a league game since we fluked a win at Livingston all because he’s a thoroughly decent human and you’ve decided we must ‘trust his process’ despite him showing no evidence of having one.

As for our attendances, they are clearly down. A tonne of ST holders aren’t bothering turning up at the moment. The Celtic games was the emptiest I’ve seen ER for the visit of one of the uglies in years.
We didn’t fluke a win at Livingston no matter how much you wish it.

[Hibeesdaft16]

We didn’t fluke a win at Livingston no matter how much you wish it.

And at the same time we lost to celtic so it wasn't a brilliant performance.

[greenlex]

And at the same time we lost to celtic so it wasn't a brilliant performance.
Which one?

[Since452]

He was cheaper than McInnes, henceforth Ian Gordon thought cheaper meant better, and Kensell (despite having been burned with the rookie option before in Maloney) appointed someone in similar vein to the Belgium cone setter-outer.

Both should be hopefully be nowhere near the next appointment.

I think it was more that they thought an inexperienced guy managing on the other side of the world was a better option than proven managers on our doorstep. A guy who's ideal set up/tactics wasn't suited to our expensively assembled squad of players. They must have known that appointing him after 4 league games was effectively writing off our season until at least January with no track record at our level to suggest he could make it work.

I don't think we've been tight in appointing Montgomery. More so naive and ignorant.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Which one?

Last Wednesday.

[Winston Ingram]

We didn’t fluke a win at Livingston no matter how much you wish it.

Scored a deflected goal, Livi should’ve had a pen and we played utterly pish. It wasn’t quite as flukey as the Aberdeen win at ER but was up there.

[greenlex]

Last Wednesday.
Last Wednesday was a good performance. You’re just being silly now.

[The Modfather]

The only thing that’s getting silly is your answers. Trust the process? He’s a thoroughly decent guy? Work the project for the first time in 20 years?

Your sitting asking us to ignore the ***** performances, the deterioration of pretty much every player in our squad, the awful run of results, his inability to sort our defence out, the fact he hasn’t won a league game since we fluked a win at Livingston all because he’s a thoroughly decent human and you’ve decided we must ‘trust his process’ despite him showing no evidence of having one.

As for our attendances, they are clearly down. A tonne of ST holders aren’t bothering turning up at the moment. The Celtic games was the emptiest I’ve seen ER for the visit of one of the uglies in years.

What was flukey about our win at Livingston out of interest?

[Hibeesdaft16]

Last Wednesday was a good performance. You’re just being silly now.

The second half was decent but we ultimately lost.

[greenlex]

Scored a deflected goal, Livi should’ve had a pen and we played utterly pish. It wasn’t quite as flukey as the Aberdeen win at ER but was up there.
We didn’t play utterly pish and livi didn’t get a penalty via var as it was offside. The ref gave a corner by the way.
I’m not sure you can call a good defensive display flukey but you seem determined to bash on regardless. So knock yourself out as I’m done trying to reason with unreasonables.

[Real Emerald]

Im all for it.

Next time someone gets us to 2 cup finals and a 3rd place finish, let's try and keep hold of him :aok:

I’m all for keeping a manager long term and backing him so he has time to build a team, It has to be the right guy though and personally I haven’t seen anything to suggest Monty has what it takes to be a good manager.

He doesn’t seem to know what the best approach is in different games, his substitutions and team selections are often baffling, he’s not very inspirational, the football he wants to play is not good on the eye and he just comes across lost in interviews. I just don’t have confidence in him rightly or wrongly. I think he’s learning on the job which is way bigger than he expected. It would take a miraculous turn around before the split to get me wanting him to stay. Sad state of affairs.

[Stuart93]

3 points out of the last 24 available is absolute horrendous

Must win next weekend and must not get beat at tynie.

Get beat in both or less than 4 points and he should be a goner

Currently sitting on a lower win % than both Maloney and LJ

[BoomtownHibees]

Scored a deflected goal, Livi should’ve had a pen and we played utterly pish. It wasn’t quite as flukey as the Aberdeen win at ER but was up there.

A penalty for what??

[Sparrows tongue]

The second half was decent but we ultimately lost.

Most teams lose to Celtic.

The point being made was the massive improvement after the St Mirren debacle.

Is your glass half full or half empty? :confused:

[greenlex]

A penalty for what??
I’m assuming a the Hanlon handball incident.

[BoomtownHibees]

I’m assuming a the Hanlon handball incident.

Ah when offside was given? Make it make sense

[Hibeesdaft16]

Most teams lose to Celtic.

The point being made was the massive improvement after the St Mirren debacle.

Is your glass half full or half empty? :confused:

Celtc have been crap recently. Now Kilmarnock going there, getting a draw is a great performance. Not losing at home.

It was a massive improvement from getting embarrassed 3-0 at home to St Mirren, it was going to be pretty hard not to improve on it though. Even saying it was an improvement to losing three nil to them is showing how bad things have gotten under Monty.

Full or Empty watching this Hibs, this season? It's very hard to be positive.

[greenlex]

Ah when offside was given? Make it make sense
Aye that one. The ref gave them a corner in real time.

[Hibeesdaft16]

I’m assuming a the Hanlon handball incident.

There was another incident Martingdale thought they should have had a penalty for also, a challenge by Newell I'm sure in the first half. I didn't think it was a penalty though.

[Hibees1973]

Montgomery's future is dependent on him improving the defence.

Any permutation he has tried since he came in has leaked goals and it's apparent already that the defenders brought in recently have not improved things. Our goals against column is only one less than Livingston who are adrift at the bottom.

Yes, we are fine going forward but most successful sides have a mean defence.

[B.H.F.C]

Scored a deflected goal, Livi should’ve had a pen and we played utterly pish. It wasn’t quite as flukey as the Aberdeen win at ER but was up there.

What about the penalty we should have had yesterday? Or the one we should have had against Celtic?

There’s enough to criticise without going back and batting for the opposition in games we actually won surely.

[greenlex]

What about the penalty we should have had yesterday? Or the one we should have had against Celtic?

There’s enough to criticise without going back and batting for the opposition in games we actually won surely.
Apparently not.

[Sioux]

What do you want when a new manager comes in?

More energy
More goals scores
Less goals conceded
Better atmosphere at the ground
Higher attendances
Increased optimism
Improved style of play

Sorry, but since Montgomery has come in none of this has happened.



That might be what you want, but in the real world that doesn't happen simply by producing some kind of magic wand (or stick). Those are used in Disney films.

You list is is certainly in fantasy land.

[WeeRussell]

That might be what you want, but in the real world that doesn't happen simply by producing some kind of magic wand (or stick). Those are used in Disney films.

You list is is certainly in fantasy land.

****ing Monty bringing in that drum and those ***** songs. And if that wasn’t enough he brings a cost of living crisis over from Australia too, while encouraging loads of miserable ***** and trolls to sign-up to hibs.net.

Get him oot.

[eastmainsmsh]

Montgomery's future is dependent on him improving the defence.

Any permutation he has tried since he came in has leaked goals and it's apparent already that the defenders brought in recently have not improved things. Our goals against column is only one less than Livingston who are adrift at the bottom.

Yes, we are fine going forward but most successful sides have a mean defence.

He might get back on fans side If he sorts out defence but Triantis who might be potentially decent currently is no better than Paul Hanlon

[007]

How do you know he had a bigger budget than three of the clubs? He brought 4 permanent players in the whole of last season. He had a championship squad and kept them up. How can you argue that's not successful?

Montys remit surely must have been to make Europe, not top six. We are 10 and 8 points off Europe behind 2 clubs with a fraction of our resources and McInness manages one of them. We are 24 points behind our biggest rivals - that is frankly a disgrace.

If he doesn't make the top six the season will be utter failure, not just a failure if we fail to make Europe. But if you are happy with the utter failure of bottom six if it happens and want the manager to stay if we achieve that then fair enough.

The point I've been making is that they were teetering on relegation, 1 point above the bottom with 6 games to go and only avoided the playoff spot on the last day of the season but the difference is McInnes was given until the end of the season. Are you saying he was a success when they were 1 point off the bottom with 6 games to go? You've only given Montgomery up to the 25th game so aren't giving him a similar chance. So lots of concessions to McInnes but none to Montgomery it seems.

When McInnes was in charge of Aberdeen he finished behind Kilmarnock once and Motherwell twice, clubs with an even smaller fraction of the resources of Aberdeen.

I won't be happy if we finish bottom 6 and think sacking a manager for missing out on top 6 is fair enough but there's still 8 games to go until the split so we don't yet know if we'll make it or not. It's only 2 weeks since the end of Montgomery's 1st transfer window so it's too soon to be sacking him.

[Hibeesdaft16]

The point I've been making is that they were teetering on relegation, 1 point above the bottom with 6 games to go and only avoided the playoff spot on the last day of the season but the difference is McInnes was given until the end of the season. Are you saying he was a success when they were 1 point off the bottom with 6 games to go? You've only given Montgomery up to the 25th game so aren't giving him a similar chance. So lots of concessions to McInnes but none to Montgomery it seems.

When McInnes was in charge of Aberdeen he finished behind Kilmarnock once and Motherwell twice, clubs with an even smaller fraction of the resources of Aberdeen.

I won't be happy if we finish bottom 6 and think sacking a manager for missing out on top 6 is fair enough but there's still 8 games to go until the split so we don't yet know if we'll make it or not. It's only 2 weeks since the end of Montgomery's 1st transfer window so it's too soon to be sacking him.

The difference obviously is they kept him on because his remit was to keep them up, if he failed to do so he would have been rightly sacked. If Monty fails to get us into the top six then he should be sacked also. I'm not giving him 25 games, I don't think he should be sacked unless we fail to make the top six. Even if that means we have failed to make Europe behind St Mirren and Kilmarnock.

When he was in charge of Aberdeen they also finished above Rangers, with a much bigger budget, twice. Didn't he get sacked after finishing behind Killie and Motherwell?

I agree with the last part, Dundee on Saturday would change that for me though, if we lose I would seriously considering parting company to try and salvage anything of the season which I know contradicts what I have posted in the first paragraph but I don't think it will come to that regardless. I think we win on Saturday and hopefully build on it.

[MikeyS]

He might get back on fans side If he sorts out defence but Triantis who might be potentially decent currently is no better than Paul Hanlon

He's no even better then Rocky based on what we've seen so far!

Oh what I'd give for a Dave Beaumont, Colin Murdock, Sean O"Hanlon or David Stephens right now!

[Hibeesdaft16]

He's no even better then Rocky based on what we've seen so far!

Oh what I'd give for a Dave Beaumont, Colin Murdock, Sean O"Hanlon or David Stephens right now!


Murdock will always be in special place in my heart for dispatching his penalty against the huns at Hampden. I was convinced he was going to miss after Anderson saved from possibly Zurab Khivi...(**** spelling the rest). :greengrin

[MikeyS]

Murdock will always be in special place in my heart for dispatching his penalty against the huns at Hampden. I was convinced he was going to miss after Anderson saved from possibly Zurab Khivi...(**** spelling the rest). :greengrin

I watched the pens again last week and his was a very cool finish.

[brianmc]

He's no even better then Rocky based on what we've seen so far!

Oh what I'd give for a Dave Beaumont, Colin Murdock, Sean O"Hanlon or David Stephens right now!

Shakin' Stevens would probably improve that defence!

[Hibeesdaft16]

I watched the pens again last week and his was a very cool finish.

It was mate aye, the best of the bunch :agree:

[VoltaireHibs]

Most teams lose to Celtic.

The point being made was the massive improvement after the St Mirren debacle.

Is your glass half full or half empty? :confused:



My elbows getting tired of topping it up every week.

[Bakerman]

3 points out of the last 24 available is absolute horrendous

Must win next weekend and must not get beat at tynie.

Get beat in both or less than 4 points and he should be a goner

Currently sitting on a lower win % than both Maloney and LJ

There is definitely a lot of pressure on fur us to win next weekend against the Dundee, just as it was to beat Inverness. After vastly improved performances against Celtic and Aberdeen, we should have enough in the locker, to beat Dundee, hopefully convincingly. Looking forward to it now, after the last few games. Should be a good atmosphere at what has become a must win game. The derby will look after itself as usual. I never expect to beat Hearts, and I would take a draw now, but the Dundee game is very winnable, bring it on.

[Since452]

The second half was decent but we ultimately lost.

Teams seem to be taking points off Celtic at the moment. Dundee is huge. Biggest game of the season. He really needs to win that.

[007]

The difference obviously is they kept him on because his remit was to keep them up, if he failed to do so he would have been rightly sacked. If Monty fails to get us into the top six then he should be sacked also. I'm not giving him 25 games, I don't think he should be sacked unless we fail to make the top six. Even if that means we have failed to make Europe behind St Mirren and Kilmarnock.

When he was in charge of Aberdeen they also finished above Rangers, with a much bigger budget, twice. Didn't he get sacked after finishing behind Killie and Motherwell?

I agree with the last part, Dundee on Saturday would change that for me though, if we lose I would seriously considering parting company to try and salvage anything of the season which I know contradicts what I have posted in the first paragraph but I don't think it will come to that regardless. I think we win on Saturday and hopefully build on it.

Fair enough, we pretty much agree on that, though you're arguing the case for McInnes and against Montgomery pretty strongly for someone who wants to give him a bit longer.

At Aberdeen McInnes had 3 seasons without Rangers in the league, 1st season Motherwell were 2nd and Aberdeen were 3rd. Next 2 Aberdeen were 2nd. Then Rangers came up and Aberdeen were 2nd twice with Rangers 3rd. He then had 3 4th place finishes behind Kimarnock, Motherwell and us repectively (though left 6 games before the end of the season we were 3rd).

To be fair it's a record not to be sniffed at but I don't think he was punching above his weight like some would have you believe. No Rangers for 3 years and when they did come up they were nowhere near as strong as they are now. Though in his favour, when he got the 2nd place finishes he couldn't have achieved much more. 4th place finishes in his last 3 seasons were behind where they should have been (comparing annual accounts, back then they were bringing in more than Hearts and spending more on wages (though that's based on all employees).

He's a solid, steady manager but I don't see any point in anyone hankering after him because he's intelligent enough to know leaving Kilmarnock for us is not worth the risk as he probably wouldn't be given the time he needs to build a squad. Wouldn't be surprised if his next job is the Scotland one.

[Donegal Hibby]

There is definitely a lot of pressure on fur us to win next weekend against the Dundee, just as it was to beat Inverness. After vastly improved performances against Celtic and Aberdeen, we should have enough in the locker, to beat Dundee, hopefully convincingly. Looking forward to it now, after the last few games. Should be a good atmosphere at what has become a must win game. The derby will look after itself as usual. I never expect to beat Hearts, and I would take a draw now, but the Dundee game is very winnable, bring it on.

Dundee game won't be easy though I'm feeling optimistic we will get the win with the new signings looking good and having a positive effect on the team which has shown in recent matches. That with Boyle , Cadden , Rocky etc coming back we should have a strong squad now to choose from too . As you said , Bring it on .

[Bakerman]

Dundee game won't be easy though I'm feeling optimistic we will get the win with the new signings looking good and having a positive effect on the team which has shown in recent matches. That with Boyle , Cadden , Rocky etc coming back we should have a strong squad now to choose from too . As you said , Bring it on .

:agree:

Looking forward to it too. Normally, as you know, games against Dundee aren't ones to get overly excited by, but this one has a lot of pressure on the management to get all three points. Boyler does look as if he's getting back into good form, Cadden is a good player, with lots of experience, Rocky lacks consistency at times, some good games, some bad, but as you said it won't be easy, pressure games rarely are tbh, but I'd be happy to get the win, if the winning goal is a deflection off someones erchie :greengrin, however, I think we'll win it slightly more comfortably, hopefully. Looking forward to it.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Fair enough, we pretty much agree on that, though you're arguing the case for McInnes and against Montgomery pretty strongly for someone who wants to give him a bit longer.

At Aberdeen McInnes had 3 seasons without Rangers in the league, 1st season Motherwell were 2nd and Aberdeen were 3rd. Next 2 Aberdeen were 2nd. Then Rangers came up and Aberdeen were 2nd twice with Rangers 3rd. He then had 3 4th place finishes behind Kimarnock, Motherwell and us repectively (though left 6 games before the end of the season we were 3rd).

To be fair it's a record not to be sniffed at but I don't think he was punching above his weight like some would have you believe. No Rangers for 3 years and when they did come up they were nowhere near as strong as they are now. Though in his favour, when he got the 2nd place finishes he couldn't have achieved much more. 4th place finishes in his last 3 seasons were behind where they should have been (comparing annual accounts, back then they were bringing in more than Hearts and spending more on wages (though that's based on all employees).

He's a solid, steady manager but I don't see any point in anyone hankering after him because he's intelligent enough to know leaving Kilmarnock for us is not worth the risk as he probably wouldn't be given the time he needs to build a squad. Wouldn't be surprised if his next job is the Scotland one.

:aok:

[IberianHibernian]

When folk talk about McInnes´record at Aberdeen they tend to talk about his league record . In cups I don`t remember them doing much . 1 LC after an extra time win over ICT but also several losses to teams in lower divisions like us and QOS . Also why do folk assume managers of any team with smaller support than us would jump at chance of managing us mid season instead of staying at their present clubs for a few months longer and not damaging their reputation ?

[Nicho87]

When folk talk about McInnes´record at Aberdeen they tend to talk about his league record . In cups I don`t remember them doing much . 1 LC after an extra time win over ICT but also several losses to teams in lower divisions like us and QOS . Also why do folk assume managers of any team with smaller support than us would jump at chance of managing us mid season instead of staying at their present clubs for a few months longer and not damaging their reputation ?

If we can’t attract the killie manager to hibs regardless who it is, we should just fold

The fact we have a new investor with ‘few million’ to spend

I reckon McInnes would love to get his teeth into hibs and make a legacy

However I might be totally wrong

If I was on the Hibs board - he’d be my number 1 target, by quite a clear way

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m all for keeping a manager long term and backing him so he has time to build a team, It has to be the right guy though and personally I haven’t seen anything to suggest Monty has what it takes to be a good manager.

He doesn’t seem to know what the best approach is in different games, his substitutions and team selections are often baffling, he’s not very inspirational, the football he wants to play is not good on the eye and he just comes across lost in interviews. I just don’t have confidence in him rightly or wrongly. I think he’s learning on the job which is way bigger than he expected. It would take a miraculous turn around before the split to get me wanting him to stay. Sad state of affairs.

Yup, agree with all of this.

[B.H.F.C]

If we can’t attract the killie manager to hibs regardless who it is, we should just fold

The fact we have a new investor with ‘few million’ to spend

I reckon McInnes would love to get his teeth into hibs and make a legacy

However I might be totally wrong

If I was on the Hibs board - he’d be my number 1 target, by quite a clear way

Worth remembering McInnes turned down Rangers when he was Aberdeen manager.

[mixumatosis]

If we can’t attract the killie manager to hibs regardless who it is, we should just fold

The fact we have a new investor with ‘few million’ to spend

I reckon McInnes would love to get his teeth into hibs and make a legacy

However I might be totally wrong

If I was on the Hibs board - he’d be my number 1 target, by quite a clear way

"If we can’t attract the killie manager to hibs regardless who it is, we should just fold"

"However I might be totally wrong"

So, you've gone from "we should just fold" to " I might be totally wrong" in 2 sentences. This is exactly why fans have no place running football clubs.

[Sparrows tongue]

If we can’t attract the killie manager to hibs regardless who it is, we should just fold

The fact we have a new investor with ‘few million’ to spend

I reckon McInnes would love to get his teeth into hibs and make a legacy

However I might be totally wrong

If I was on the Hibs board - he’d be my number 1 target, by quite a clear way

Tell us you’ve just contradicted yourself without telling us that you have just contradicted yourself.

[Nicho87]

[QUOTE=mixumatosis;7590409]"If we can’t attract the killie manager to hibs regardless who it is, we should just fold"

"However I might be totally wrong"

So, you've gone from "we should just fold" to " I might be totally wrong" in 2 sentences. This is exactly why fans have no place running football clubs. [\QUOTE]

The might be totally wrong part referred to hibs going for McInnes in the first instance

Your a charmer though clearly

[Nicho87]

Worth remembering McInnes turned down Rangers when he was Aberdeen manager.

He did, just something about McInnes I think he is exactly what Hibs have needed for a bit now.

[007]

If we can’t attract the killie manager to hibs regardless who it is, we should just fold

The fact we have a new investor with ‘few million’ to spend

I reckon McInnes would love to get his teeth into hibs and make a legacy

However I might be totally wrong

If I was on the Hibs board - he’d be my number 1 target, by quite a clear way

I think you are totally wrong. He could have gone to Rangers, a club where he was a player, where he would have had a better chance of making a legacy but he chose to stay at Aberdeen.

What sort of legacy is he likely to make at Hibs? There's a high chance he'd be sacked before he'd be given time to build a team so it would be a legacy of failure. Kilmarnock stuck by him when he was close to getting them relegated. Why would he want to leave them for us?

Someone posted on here that McInnes didn't want the Hibs job so if that's true then where the Hibs board had/have him on their list is irrelevant. Maybe they've already established his level of interest.

[007]

The might be totally wrong part referred to hibs going for McInnes in the first instance

Your a charmer though clearly

The might be totally wrong bit referred to McInnes would love to get his teeth into Hibs and making a legacy.

[raeburnhibs]

I think you are totally wrong. He could have gone to Rangers, a club where he was a player, where he would have had a better chance of making a legacy but he chose to stay at Aberdeen.

What sort of legacy is he likely to make at Hibs? There's a high chance he'd be sacked before he'd be given time to build a team so it would be a legacy of failure. Kilmarnock stuck by him when he was close to getting them relegated. Why would he want to leave them for us?

Someone posted on here that McInnes didn't want the Hibs job so if that's true then where the Hibs board had/have him on their list is irrelevant. Maybe they've already established his level of interest.
Bigger club, Ambition, oh and money, more money

[007]

Bigger club, Ambition, oh and money, more money

Those all applied when Rangers came calling but he turned them down and chose to stay at Aberdeen.

[greenlex]

Nobody in their right mind that knows the Scottish game would have taken the Rangers job up against Rodger’s first spell or against Ange ball. They would have been in a hiding to nothing. He’s no daft. The only thing that puzzled me about his Aberdeen stint was that he stuck around after a league runners up berth and cup finals. One season he achieved everything he was ever going to at Aberdeen and still stayed on when surely there would have been offered elsewhere.

[Hibee Daft]

Our defenc3le is the big problem, another manager isnt going to change that.


Marshall - i like him because hes had a great career, got Scotland to the euros but hes passed it.

Hopefully Wollacot gets a run of games and can steady the back four abit. Marshall flapping at everything must be pretty unsettling as a defender

[007]

Nobody in their right mind that knows the Scottish game would have taken the Rangers job up against Rodger’s first spell or against Ange ball. They would have been in a hiding to nothing. He’s no daft. The only thing that puzzled me about his Aberdeen stint was that he stuck around after a league runners up berth and cup finals. One season he achieved everything he was ever going to at Aberdeen and still stayed on when surely there would have been offered elsewhere.

That's quite easy to say afterwards with hindsight having seen how successful they were. Rodgers hadn't completed his 1st season when McInnes turned down the Rangers job. How did he know he'd be on a hiding to nothing? Maybe he knew it would take more than 2 weeks after the end of his 1st transfer window to improve things.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Our defenc3le is the big problem, another manager isnt going to change that.


Marshall - i like him because hes had a great career, got Scotland to the euros but hes passed it.

Hopefully Wollacot gets a run of games and can steady the back four abit. Marshall flapping at everything must be pretty unsettling as a defender


Why wouldn't another manager change the problem in our defence? :confused:

[Hibee Daft]

Why wouldn't another manager change the problem in our defence? :confused:

The transfer window is closed buddy

[Hibeesdaft16]

That's quite easy to say afterwards with hindsight having seen how successful they were. Rodgers hadn't completed his 1st season when McInnes turned down the Rangers job. How did he know he'd be on a hiding to nothing? Maybe he knew it would take more than 2 weeks after the end of his 1st transfer window to improve things.

He turned down the hun job apparently after speaking to Walter Smith about it who advised not to take it. There must have been a really good reason for that.

I'm not sure if he would accept the Hibernian job though, purely because of what you posted earlier and I agree again, I think he will be the next manager of Scotland - especially if he continues to do the great job he's doing in Ayrshire. It doesn't or shouldn't stop us sounding him out and asking permission to speak with him though if Monty can't get us into the top six. Problem being we would have to wait until the end of the season I would imagine.

[CMac1988]

Those all applied when Rangers came calling but he turned them down and chose to stay at Aberdeen.

Not that I'd ever heard of a similar contract or believed it at the time but wasn't there a rumour that he was receiving a percentage of player sell on fees? He'd have already been on the highest managers wage in the league/s after Celtic and Rangers but if this was true it may have pushed him over the basic wage that Rangers were offering.

[Hibeesdaft16]

The transfer window is closed buddy


That wouldn't stop some managers focussing on making us harder to beat first. I get your point though.

[One Day Soon]

"If we can’t attract the killie manager to hibs regardless who it is, we should just fold"

"However I might be totally wrong"

So, you've gone from "we should just fold" to " I might be totally wrong" in 2 sentences. This is exactly why fans have no place running football clubs. Shut yourself up.

Oh aye?

[007]

He turned down the hun job apparently after speaking to Walter Smith about it who advised not to take it. There must have been a really good reason for that.

I'm not sure if he would accept the Hibernian job though, purely because of what you posted earlier and I agree again, I think he will be the next manager of Scotland - especially if he continues to do the great job he's doing in Ayrshire. It doesn't or shouldn't stop us sounding him out and asking permission to speak with him though if Monty can't get us into the top six. Problem being we would have to wait until the end of the season I would imagine.

We appointed Maloney when McInnes was out of work, if it was ever going to happen it would have been then. Doubt it ever will now.

[007]

Not that I'd ever heard of a similar contract or believed it at the time but wasn't there a rumour that he was receiving a percentage of player sell on fees? He'd have already been on the highest managers wage in the league/s after Celtic and Rangers but if this was true it may have pushed him over the basic wage that Rangers were offering.

Don't know anything of that. I do remember he was on good money at Aberdeen so it wasn't too surprising he stayed. Moving to Rangers would have been a risk because being sacked was more likely so he'd have needed a hefty pay rise to make it worth the risk. Much like if he were to move from Killie to us.

[HoboHarry]

Not that I'd ever heard of a similar contract or believed it at the time but wasn't there a rumour that he was receiving a percentage of player sell on fees? He'd have already been on the highest managers wage in the league/s after Celtic and Rangers but if this was true it may have pushed him over the basic wage that Rangers were offering.
I had thought/recalled that was Jackie McNamara Jnr not Derek McInnes?

[Since452]

If Montgomery is going to be here next season he needs to get some credit in the bank. He doesn't have any yet. LJ got another chance by having a strong second half of the season and doing a good job in January clearing out the deadwood and signing well.

1 point out of 9 since the window closed isn't great. 3 points is a must against Dundee as Hearts will likely beat us.

[Winston Ingram]

Our defenc3le is the big problem, another manager isnt going to change that.


Marshall - i like him because hes had a great career, got Scotland to the euros but hes passed it.

Hopefully Wollacot gets a run of games and can steady the back four abit. Marshall flapping at everything must be pretty unsettling as a defender

Dunno how you’ve come to that conclusion. Good managers improve players. Ours has made nearly everyone worse.

[JimBHibees]

And at the same time we lost to celtic so it wasn't a brilliant performance.

Don't know which Hibs you watch but we were excellent against Celtic and only got no points because of being cheated again by officials.

[JimBHibees]

Dunno how you’ve come to that conclusion. Good managers improve players. Ours has made nearly everyone worse.

Last three games have been better when new players bedding in. Better officials likely picked up three more points.

[Winston Ingram]

Last three games have been better when new players bedding in. Better officials likely picked up three more points.

He was talking about the defence. We lost 2 absolutely horrific goals on Saturday.

[The Modfather]

He was talking about the defence. We lost 2 absolutely horrific goals on Saturday.

How would a new manager stop Miller from failing to stop the cross, Fish breakdancing on ice and the rest of the team frozen to the spot rather than engage the ball and block it for the second goal? Or Newell and Fish ambling out at the first unaware Miovski was behind them at the first?

It’s individual errors costing us goals. Which won’t change until we replace those individuals whoever the manager is IMO.

[The Tubs]

You have to say that the two goals that we scored came from even worse defending. Thus, if the defences had played well, we would have won 0-1 from the first-half penalty that never was.

[marinello59]

How would a new manager stop Miller from failing to stop the cross, Fish breakdancing on ice and the rest of the team frozen to the spot rather than engage the ball and block it for the second goal? Or Newell and Fish ambling out at the first unaware Miovski was behind them at the first?

It’s individual errors costing us goals. Which won’t change until we replace those individuals whoever the manager is IMO.

:agree:

[Paulie Walnuts]

How would a new manager stop Miller from failing to stop the cross, Fish breakdancing on ice and the rest of the team frozen to the spot rather than engage the ball and block it for the second goal? Or Newell and Fish ambling out at the first unaware Miovski was behind them at the first?

It’s individual errors costing us goals. Which won’t change until we replace those individuals whoever the manager is IMO.

Going by that logic, a manager shouldn’t be expected to help players improve, and I suppose by default, shouldn’t be expected to improve anything until there’s a huge churn of players. That’s not really the case though.

If our players keep making errors, surely it’s the managers job to help them eradicate those errors, either by improving their own performance, finding a system that minimises the chances of them making these errors/the impact of those errors, or a combination of it all?

[Heisenberg]

How would a new manager stop Miller from failing to stop the cross, Fish breakdancing on ice and the rest of the team frozen to the spot rather than engage the ball and block it for the second goal? Or Newell and Fish ambling out at the first unaware Miovski was behind them at the first?

It’s individual errors costing us goals. Which won’t change until we replace those individuals whoever the manager is IMO.

While I agree about the individual errors, I also think he deserves some criticism for the way he approached trying to sort the defence in January. Triantis looks like the absolute opposite of what we needed.

[B.H.F.C]

Going by that logic, a manager shouldn’t be expected to help players improve, and I suppose by default, shouldn’t be expected to improve anything until there’s a huge churn of players. That’s not really the case though.

If our players keep making errors, surely it’s the managers job to help them eradicate those errors, either by improving their own performance, finding a system that minimises the chances of them making these errors, or a combination of both?

We heard loads about it being really obvious that he just needed to play a 433 though. So folk have got what they want for that (rightly by the way) but there’s no system in the world that can stop a centre half getting their feet tangled up and kicking fresh air In the middle of their own box though like Fish did at the weekend.

Of course you can change things to suit the players you have but there are certain errors that are just simply down to the players, irrespective of shape or whatever. We conceded crap goals playing a 442, well concede crap goals playing a 433 because the defenders are a mixture of not very good and inexperienced.

[B.H.F.C]

While I agree about the individual errors, I also think he deserves some criticism for the way he approached trying to sort the defence in January. Triantis looks like the absolute opposite of what we needed.

That’s the issue. No setup is going to change that. Identifying Triantis as the one to fix things looked mad at the time, and even madder now.

[The Modfather]

Going by that logic, a manager shouldn’t be expected to help players improve, and I suppose by default, shouldn’t be expected to improve anything until there’s a huge churn of players. That’s not really the case though.

If our players keep making errors, surely it’s the managers job to help them eradicate those errors, either by improving their own performance, finding a system that minimises the chances of them making these errors/the impact of those errors, or a combination of it all?

How long were we calling for the midfield to be gutted and rebuilt? I don’t remember many arguing successive managers should be getting more out of Newell, JDH, Campbell, Jeggo, Henderson etc. The defence is the same for me. Really bad at the basics (stopping crosses and defending them) and they make individual mistakes on a weekly basis.

[SHODAN]

We're on an eight game run without a win.

In that run, we have been winning a game for a total of ELEVEN MINUTES. Seven against Motherwell, three against Aberdeen.

It's unacceptable. Sorry.

[The Modfather]

While I agree about the individual errors, I also think he deserves some criticism for the way he approached trying to sort the defence in January. Triantis looks like the absolute opposite of what we needed.

I think that’s fair. He wanted Triantis, who I think has something (but then so do Fish, Hanlon & Rocky and yet our defence remains shambolic). I just think gutting our defence was an area too far for one window/our budget.

Maybe we would have been better not signing someone like Amos, who I think will be excellent in time, in favour of a centre back that will make a difference in the here and now.

[Rumble de Thump]

We're on an eight game run without a win.

In that run, we have been winning a game for a total of ELEVEN MINUTES. Seven against Motherwell, three against Aberdeen.

It's unacceptable. Sorry.

Is there a head coach we can bring in that can get the match officials to do their jobs properly?

[hibbydad]

We're on an eight game run without a win.

In that run, we have been winning a game for a total of ELEVEN MINUTES. Seven against Motherwell, three against Aberdeen.

It's unacceptable. Sorry.
You are right Diclonius most of the players have regressed in his time here

[Paulie Walnuts]

We heard loads about it being really obvious that he just needed to play a 433 though. So folk have got what they want for that (rightly by the way) but there’s no system in the world that can stop a centre half getting their feet tangled up and kicking fresh air In the middle of their own box though like Fish did at the weekend.

Of course you can change things to suit the players you have but there are certain errors that are just simply down to the players, irrespective of shape or whatever. We conceded crap goals playing a 442, well concede crap goals playing a 433 because the defenders are a mixture of not very good and inexperienced.

I don’t disagree with that, but it’s one goal. The fact we keep on seeing so many individual errors would suggest to me that Montgomery isn’t doing enough to improve players or that his system sets players up to fail by exposing their weaknesses far too easily.

Thats been improved on somewhat recently by the change in system, which has made a difference in the levels of performance, but he’s ripped the arse out of so many players confidence levels with his use of them earlier in the season imo.

I just don’t agree with Modfathers general point at all really. If no manager can improve players that make individual errors as Modfather suggested then we’re essentially absolving all managers of all blame. It’s their job to improve players and set teams up to minimise weaknesses and maximise strengths, something which on the whole, Montgomery has been woeful at.

[Brightside]

How would a new manager stop Miller from failing to stop the cross, Fish breakdancing on ice and the rest of the team frozen to the spot rather than engage the ball and block it for the second goal? Or Newell and Fish ambling out at the first unaware Miovski was behind them at the first?

It’s individual errors costing us goals. Which won’t change until we replace those individuals whoever the manager is IMO.

Far too much logic in this post.

[Brightside]

While I agree about the individual errors, I also think he deserves some criticism for the way he approached trying to sort the defence in January. Triantis looks like the absolute opposite of what we needed.

Are we doing the classic of writing off players after 3 games?

[Smartie]

I know it's a bit naughty picking one or two games and expecting to be able to extrapolate what happened in them over a larger run of games... but did we not look our tightest with David Gray in charge? At Villa Park it wasn't perfect but against a top side we looked much tighter than the week before. He went to Pittodrie and played a pragmatic team in a 433, back 4 of Stevenson, Hanlon, Fish and Miller with Marshall behind them and Jeggo in front... and we looked tighter.

The rest of the season has been afflicted with the same mess of mistakes, goals from crosses and different combinations every week.

If I were in charge I might be tempted to pick the last thing that looked like it worked and try that again.

[Heisenberg]

Are we doing the classic of writing off players after 3 games?

He’s been at fault for goals in all three games he’s played has he not? Fish has been just as much of a problem to be fair and that’s been over a much longer period. We’ve very little in the way of good central defenders at the club. Your favourite is probably still the best we’ve got ffs!

[#2 Double Tap]

Rocky is the best cb we have…..

[Since452]

We're on an eight game run without a win.

In that run, we have been winning a game for a total of ELEVEN MINUTES. Seven against Motherwell, three against Aberdeen.

It's unacceptable. Sorry.

That's shocking. We're lucky Livingston and Ross County are so bad this season.

[JimBHibees]

Are we doing the classic of writing off players after 3 games?

Thought Triantis came onto a game v Celtic and heard he was OK v Caley. In saying that both looked shaky as on Saturday. Need to improve quickly as both goals really were very poor from all defence not just centre backs. Wouldnt be averse to going with them again on Saturday but definitely need an improvement

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t disagree with that, but it’s one goal. The fact we keep on seeing so many individual errors would suggest to me that Montgomery isn’t doing enough to improve players or that his system sets players up to fail by exposing their weaknesses far too easily.

Thats been improved on somewhat recently by the change in system, which has made a difference in the levels of performance, but he’s ripped the arse out of so many players confidence levels with his use of them earlier in the season imo.

I just don’t agree with Modfathers general point at all really. If no manager can improve players that make individual errors as Modfather suggested then we’re essentially absolving all managers of all blame. It’s their job to improve players and set teams up to minimise weaknesses and maximise strengths, something which on the whole, Montgomery has been woeful at.

It’s one example but there are countless.

Go back to the derby, there is nothing a manager can do about Rocky getting bullied off the ball by Shankland despite the size of him. In the next game against Motherwell you have a 16 year old right back who (unsurprisingly) switched off. At Kilmarnock we headed one in to the net for them and then the 19 year old right back (unsurprisingly) switched off for the second. In the game against Rangers the manager can do little about Marshall’s attempted clearance going straight to their player. Celtic we concede a penalty (dubious IMO) but Triantis challenged for a ball he was never winning. Then you’re right up to the game on Saturday where we have more individual errors.

I don’t know how the manager, or any manager, can get individuals to eradicate those type of things. The personnel defensively just isn’t good enough. The big black mark against the manager is that he thought Triantis was the one capable of coming in and fixing it when we all knew another young player, on loan, wasn’t what we needed.

[Brightside]

Rocky is the best cb we have…..

Nah. But he is the only one we will have after at the end of the season.

[Hiber-nation]

None of the players have a clue what Rocky is going to do next. Far too unpredictable and unreliable. I'd persist with Triantis, he's only just in the door.

[Real Emerald]

How would a new manager stop Miller from failing to stop the cross, Fish breakdancing on ice and the rest of the team frozen to the spot rather than engage the ball and block it for the second goal? Or Newell and Fish ambling out at the first unaware Miovski was behind them at the first?

It’s individual errors costing us goals. Which won’t change until we replace those individuals whoever the manager is IMO.

The slow build from the back invites pressure on defenders, the pressure builds until the defence inevitably makes mistakes. They live on the edge constantly so he could help by stopping that.

[hibsbollah]

None of the players have a clue what Rocky is going to do next. Far too unpredictable and unreliable. I'd persist with Triantis, he's only just in the door.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but i'm interested in your reasoning. Triantis made two errors yesterday for our two goals, not tracking the goalscorers run on the first and having a brainfart on the second, not sure what he was doing. He was shocking in his debut vs St Mirren and in general at best is flashy with some nice touches and inconsistant, and at worse a liability. Compare that with Fish's start, where he did that weird 'sheparding the ball out and then stopping' thing that led to the goal in the derby. Fish was brutalised for that, dropped for weeks, then went on a redemption arc (and is now playing terrible again, to be fair). If Fish was dropped for weeks for his appalling start under johnson, why not Triantis?

I actually agree that Rocky is our best CB at the moment, but in an ideal world would be the 3rd best CB at the club who would come in when the main two (yet to be found) needed a rest or to fill in for injury.

[Hiber-nation]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but i'm interested in your reasoning. Triantis made two errors yesterday for our two goals, not tracking the goalscorers run on the first and having a brainfart on the second, not sure what he was doing. He was shocking in his debut vs St Mirren and in general at best is flashy with some nice touches and inconsistant, and at worse a liability. Compare that with Fish's start, where he did that weird 'sheparding the ball out and then stopping' thing that led to the goal in the derby. Fish was brutalised for that, dropped for weeks, then went on a redemption arc (and is now playing terrible again, to be fair). If Fish was dropped for weeks for his appalling start under johnson, why not Triantis?

I actually agree that Rocky is our best CB at the moment, but in an ideal world would be the 3rd best CB at the club who would come in when the main two (yet to be found) needed a rest or to fill in for injury.

The jury is out on Triantis but he was good against Celtic once he found his feet. I don't want to see the defence being chopped and changed. I just don't rate Rocky at all, he generates chaos.

[B.H.F.C]

The slow build from the back invites pressure on defenders, the pressure builds until the defence inevitably makes mistakes. They live on the edge constantly so he could help by stopping that.

The slow build from the back is nowhere near as present as it was previously. There has been a definite change to that.

[Smartie]

The jury is out on Triantis but he was good against Celtic once he found his feet. I don't want to see the defence being chopped and changed. I just don't rate Rocky at all, he generates chaos.

Does he really "generate chaos"?

He makes mistakes, the same as the rest of them, but I don't think he stands out amongst a collection of error prone defenders as being particularly chaotic.

FWIW I prefer Hanlon out of our current centre halves, by a mile. Whilst not faultless, I think he's the least error-prone.

[Real Emerald]

The slow build from the back is nowhere near as present as it was previously. There has been a definite change to that.

Yes there has and it has helped. His management skills have taken around 20 games to work that out though. Warnock played 3 at the back against St Mirren the other night and admitted at full time it was shambolic and not working so he changed it at half time. It’s taken Monty half a season to realise, he’s not got a clue.

[Donegal Hibby]

Thought Triantis came onto a game v Celtic and heard he was OK v Caley. In saying that both looked shaky as on Saturday. Need to improve quickly as both goals really were very poor from all defence not just centre backs. Wouldnt be averse to going with them again on Saturday but definitely need an improvement

I think there's been to much chopping and changing of the defence this season . I'd stick with the same back four for the Dundee game . Both Fish and Triantis are a new partnership and will get better . Thought there was some encouraging signs from Triantis against Aberdeen , looks good in the air , comfortable with the ball at his feet and played a couple of lovely long passes that almost put our forwards in too .