Sportscene 22/23

[greenlex]

I actually like Sportscene. Keeping it real. :greengrin:greengrin

[Scotty Leither]

Commercial channels wanted England games. SFA went with Viaplay. I like watching Match of thr Day. What's the problem? Why can't I have that choice?

You can have that “choice” as long as you can afford it. Meanwhile “viewers in Scotland” (copyright the BBC, along with “news where you are”), don’t get that choice unless you fork out for it, over and above the broadcasting equivalent of the poll tax, aka the licence fee.

[Glory Lurker]

I totally get the inappropriate subsidy argument and instinctively agree with it. It depends on being able to compare what you put in to what you get out though. Is there reliable stats for what the Beeb's English football budget brings in? We need that first, surely, to know if the coverage of English football isn't a subsidy.

Also, and again I don't know without stats, what is the budget for the arts, and what does that recover?

[archie]

I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?

This quote courtesy of the BBC!

[archie]

No I want a publicly funded body to treat its public on an equal basis no matter where they are. We get well presented programmes on English football including the FA Cup and England internationals (AFAIK) with well paid presenters aimed at English viewers whilst as Scot’s we get absolute tripe aimed at us.
It’s not difficult to understand if you get your union specs off. You can surely see Scots in this case are not equally catered for by a publicly funded body. Or can you?

I know you see everything through the prism of the constitution, but this is just silly. The BBC isn't showing England internationals. I'm pleased that EPL highlights and SPL highlights are still free to air. The issue appears to be that the BBC should pay more for the coverage in Scotland. Taking off the grievance specs, why? And the idea that people in Scotland don't want to see the EPL is daft. Would I like the Scottish programme to be better? Yes. So rather than trying to make a constitution issue out of it, why don't you say how you would like it to be better?

[archie]

You can have that “choice” as long as you can afford it. Meanwhile “viewers in Scotland” (copyright the BBC, along with “news where you are”), don’t get that choice unless you fork out for it, over and above the broadcasting equivalent of the poll tax, aka the licence fee.

The SFA chose to go with the UEFA deal.

[Glory Lurker]

I know you see everything through the prism of the constitution, but this is just silly. The BBC isn't showing England internationals. I'm pleased that EPL highlights and SPL highlights are still free to air. The issue appears to be that the BBC should pay more for the coverage in Scotland. Taking off the grievance specs, why? And the idea that people in Scotland don't want to see the EPL is daft. Would I like the Scottish programme to be better? Yes. So rather than trying to make a constitution issue out of it, why don't you say how you would like it to be better?

Is BBC coverage of English football a subsidy though?

[archie]

No I want a publicly funded body to treat its public on an equal basis no matter where they are. We get well presented programmes on English football including the FA Cup and England internationals (AFAIK) with well paid presenters aimed at English viewers whilst as Scot’s we get absolute tripe aimed at us.
It’s not difficult to understand if you get your union specs off. You can surely see Scots in this case are not equally catered for by a publicly funded body. Or can you?

So what would that mean in practice? The BBC volunteers to pay the same for the rights to Scottish football as they do in England. Or why not match Sky?

[Scotty Leither]

The SFA chose to go with the UEFA deal.

Which closes off large swathes of the population that can’t afford a subscription channel.

Were we to have our own broadcaster we might get a better deal than we’re getting at the moment.

[archie]

Is BBC coverage of English football a subsidy though?

A subsidy of what? It's a commercial bid.

[archie]

Which closes off large swathes of the population that can’t afford a subscription channel.

Were we to have our own broadcaster we might get a better deal than we’re getting at the moment.

I agree on the viaplay deal. I think it's much better if the national team is on free to air.

[Clarence]

No I want a publicly funded body to treat its public on an equal basis no matter where they are. We get well presented programmes on English football including the FA Cup and England internationals (AFAIK) with well paid presenters aimed at English viewers whilst as Scot’s we get absolute tripe aimed at us.
It’s not difficult to understand if you get your union specs off. You can surely see Scots in this case are not equally catered for by a publicly funded body. Or can you?

I agree with you that Scottish football is a bit underserved by the BBC but by your rationale, would we then also have to cater for Welsh and Northern Irish football equally?

[Scotty Leither]

I agree with you that Scottish football is a bit underserved by the BBC but by your rationale, would we then also have to cater for Welsh and Northern Irish football equally?

Yes, and why shouldn’t an organisation that styles itself as “the national broadcaster” cater for all countries equally?

[Steven79]

Yes, and why shouldn’t an organisation that styles itself as “the national broadcaster” cater for all countries equally?

Because the only country that matters is England...

[archie]

Yes, and why shouldn’t an organisation that styles itself as “the national broadcaster” cater for all countries equally?

What does that mean in practice?

[Glory Lurker]

A subsidy of what? It's a commercial bid.

By a publicly funded broadcaster. What is the business case to justify it to the licence fee payer?

[Eyrie]

Leaving aside the politically based BBC bashing, surely Sportscene could do a better job with its current budget?

Proper tactical analysis, giving each game a sensible allocation of air time, fewer jobs for the boys and less sticking up for their mates.

[Scotty Leither]

What does that mean in practice?

By devolving broadcasting for a start…

[Glory Lurker]

Leaving aside the politically based BBC bashing, surely Sportscene could do a better job with its current budget?

Proper tactical analysis, giving each game a sensible allocation of air time, fewer jobs for the boys and less sticking up for their mates.

There's that as well, but it's not as much fun :-)

[archie]

By devolving broadcasting for a start…

Right - now we are what this is about.

[greenlex]

Right - now we are what this is about.
In your head.

[BILLYHIBS]

Just switched over great to see Alan ‘Mad ‘ McGregor getting lobbed and falling on his erchie

Not a lot he could do about it but pleasing anyway

Worth the Licence Fee alone

[archie]

Leaving aside the politically based BBC bashing, surely Sportscene could do a better job with its current budget?

Proper tactical analysis, giving each game a sensible allocation of air time, fewer jobs for the boys and less sticking up for their mates.

I agree. I think the highlights are short, but that might be contractual? I'd have a news round up and maybe newspaper gossip. And maybe some features, like the half time ones on Alba. Updates on Scottish players playing abroad. A set piece interview with a former player from time to time. I think Stephen Thompson has zero charisma, but keeps it moving.

[archie]

In your head.

Except if you read the comments you would get that impression.

[Victor]

What I would like to know is how much do the BBC pay the EPL for their highlights package and how much they pay the SPL for theirs. If there is a massive discrepancy then it would be appropriate to complain considering we are paying the same licence fee as people in England, who get a much classier show.


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[marinello59]

By a publicly funded broadcaster. What is the business case to justify it to the licence fee payer?

Maybe the same business case made to cover the production costs of Line of Duty etc.?

[archie]

What I would like to know is how much do the BBC pay the EPL for their highlights package and how much they pay the SPL for theirs. If there is a massive discrepancy then it would be appropriate to complain considering we are paying the same licence fee as people in England, who get a much classier show.


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I read £211m but I don't know how many years that covers. Likely to be intense bidding for the next round apparently.

[Tyler Durden]

What I would like to know is how much do the BBC pay the EPL for their highlights package and how much they pay the SPL for theirs. If there is a massive discrepancy then it would be appropriate to complain considering we are paying the same licence fee as people in England, who get a much classier show.


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Why would that be appropriate?

Should River City have the same budget as Eastenders?

[Baader]

What I would like to know is how much do the BBC pay the EPL for their highlights package and how much they pay the SPL for theirs. If there is a massive discrepancy then it would be appropriate to complain considering we are paying the same licence fee as people in England, who get a much classier show.


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But you get to watch both? It's not like Motd is unavailable in Scotland.

[007]

What I would like to know is how much do the BBC pay the EPL for their highlights package and how much they pay the SPL for theirs. If there is a massive discrepancy then it would be appropriate to complain considering we are paying the same licence fee as people in England, who get a much classier show.


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Scotland gets Match of the Day and Sportscene, England only gets Match of the Day. Maybe folk in England should complain.

[Irish_Steve]

Scotland gets Match of the Day and Sportscene, England only gets Match of the Day. Maybe folk in England should complain.

Maybe folk in England should thank their lucky stars........

[archie]

Scotland gets Match of the Day and Sportscene, England only gets Match of the Day. Maybe folk in England should complain.

The way people go on here like it's a national affront that MOTD is shown here.

[archie]

By a publicly funded broadcaster. What is the business case to justify it to the licence fee payer?

It's not just a business case. Because of the licence fee the BBC has a duty to cover a range of subjects. Surely Scottish and English football being free to air is a good thing?

[CentreLine]

Commercial channels wanted England games. SFA went with Viaplay. I like watching Match of thr Day. What's the problem? Why can't I have that choice?

But you do have the choice. If you want English tv you simply tune in to English tv.
I don’t want to watch English women’s football or FA cup games. My choice very often seems to be to turn off or look for something on a pay per view channel. It tells me the bbc put a disproportionate amount of my licence fee in to English football.
When the Scottish League Cup final was on, bbc and itv were showing us the above live and not even a nod towards a national cup final taking place in part of the uk by any terrestrial channel. It may even have been bbc one and two rather than itv. One way or another two of the principal terrestrial channels were dominated by English football and regularly are.

[HarpOnHibee]

Scotland gets Match of the Day and Sportscene, England only gets Match of the Day. Maybe folk in England should complain.

About as much people in Scotland care about English football as people in England care about Scottish football. People in Scotland will watch MOTD because it's on, not because they have a major vested interest in it. People in England can watch Sportscene on BBC iPlayer simply by changing their geographical setting to Scotland. But they don't, because they don't give a jobby.

[archie]

But you do have the choice. If you want English tv you simply tune in to English tv.
I don’t want to watch English women’s football or FA cup games. My choice very often seems to be to turn off or look for something on a pay per view channel. It tells me the bbc put a disproportionate amount of my licence fee in to English football.
When the Scottish League Cup final was on, bbc and itv were showing us the above live and not even a nod towards a national cup final taking place in part of the uk by any terrestrial channel.
English TV?

[CentreLine]

English TV?

Yes. The bbc is regionalised to the four nations. It’s why we have a bbc one Scotland and a bbc Scotland, a bbc wales and bbc N Ireland.

[archie]

Yes. The bbc is regionalised to the four nations. It’s why we have a bbc one Scotland and a bbc Scotland, a bbc walkers and bbc N Ireland.

BBC1 is a UK channel that has opt out across the whole country. MOTD isn't on BBC England.

[CentreLine]

BBC1 is a UK channel that has opt out across the whole country. MOTD isn't on BBC England.

Pedantic but true. But, to be fair, we are talking about football broadcasting here and ENGLISH football dominating the screens of terrestrial tv, to the detriment of the game here.

[archie]

Pedantic but true. But, to be fair, we are talking about football broadcasting here and ENGLISH football dominating the screens of terrestrial tv, to the detriment of the game here.

As someone who loves Scottish football, I don't love Sportscene. I posted some thoughts above about how it might be improved. I don't think coverage of the EPL hurts us because it is just such a different thing

[Victor]

Why would that be appropriate?

Should River City have the same budget as Eastenders?

I think you are missing the point. If, as someone suggested, the BBC are paying £211 million pound for EPL highlights, that is a massive waste of OUR licence fee. I don’t think the public should be paying that sort of money to an already wealthy organisation. When you put production costs (i.e. presenters salaries) on top of the initial fee then it is even more obscene. Particularly when you consider that not everyone likes football. Maybe Sportscene, with its cheap production costs and minuscule fee paid to the SPL is good value for money after all!


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[007]

About as much people in Scotland care about English football as people in England care about Scottish football. People in Scotland will watch MOTD because it's on, not because they have a major vested interested in it. People in England can watch Sportscene on BBC iPlayer simply by changing their geographical setting to Scotland. But they don't, because they don't give a jobby.

I agree that not many in England are bothered about Scottish football but cannot agree the reverse is true or the implication that the people in Scotland watching MotD are doing so just because it is on. Some will be but only a small proportion I'd say.

[HarpOnHibee]

I agree that not many in England are bothered about Scottish football but cannot agree the reverse is true or the implication that the people in Scotland watching MotD are doing so just because it is on. Some will be but only a small proportion I'd say.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. All I can say is that just about anybody that I know (who isn't originally from England) will watch MOTD simply because it's on, not because they take English football seriously or have any real following of any of the clubs down there.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. All I can say is that just about anybody that I know (who isn't originally from England) will watch MOTD simply because it's on, not because they take English football seriously or have any real following of any of the clubs down there.

I watch MOTD because I’m a Man Utd “fan”, I say that in quotation marks because my fandom of United goes as far as buying a shirt every few years and going down once every five or so years for a game. It doesn’t contend with my support for hibs or Scotland, not even close. But I’ll watch MOTD every week to watch the highlights even if I’ve watched the game live on TV. You’re probably right that a similar amount of people here care about English fitba as what people down south care about ours, but they have 10x the population. Their clubs are a much more attractive prospect for potential supporters than ours unfortunately.


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[Baader]

About as much people in Scotland care about English football as people in England care about Scottish football. People in Scotland will watch MOTD because it's on, not because they have a major vested interest in it. People in England can watch Sportscene on BBC iPlayer simply by changing their geographical setting to Scotland. But they don't, because they don't give a jobby.

Don't think that's true at all about Scots not bothering for English football. Just go to any pub on Wednesday night to see how many want to watch Man City v Arsenal. Like it or not, a lot of Scots will want to see that.

[007]

Don't think that's true at all about Scots not bothering for English football. Just go to any pub on Wednesday night to see how many want to watch Man City v Arsenal. Like it or not, a lot of Scots will want to see that.

Or an awful lot of people just happen to be in the pubs when the matches come on the TV. 🤔

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Or an awful lot of people just happen to be in the pubs when the matches come on the TV. [emoji848]

On a Wednesday? Pubs are usually empty on a Wednesday night unless Man Utd/Liverpool/Der Hun/Shellick are playing in Europe that night


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[Scotty Leither]

Right - now we are what this is about.

One poster higher up this thread says: “England is a different country “.

To which you replied “Don’t be silly”.

So now I get what all this is about.

[007]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. All I can say is that just about anybody that I know (who isn't originally from England) will watch MOTD simply because it's on, not because they take English football seriously or have any real following of any of the clubs down there.

Your experience is a lot different to mine. A large number of Scottish football fans I've ever come across have a preferred English team or at the very least teams they like more than others and teams they dislike.

[He's here!]

About as much people in Scotland care about English football as people in England care about Scottish football. People in Scotland will watch MOTD because it's on, not because they have a major vested interest in it. People in England can watch Sportscene on BBC iPlayer simply by changing their geographical setting to Scotland. But they don't, because they don't give a jobby.

Like it or not, the Premier League is a massive global attraction. I can't really be ersed with it these days, but a great many Scottish football fans also follow English teams. Personally I used to travel to watch Everton when time and money allowed and I knew plenty of folk back then who did similar, the majority to watch Man United or Liverpool, although some had family/geographical connections to less glamorous teams and I've had some cracking trips with friends to watch the likes of Palace, QPR, Oldham and even York City. The cost of doing so these days is prohibitive (which perhaps accounts for the numbers at Scottish games holding up quite well), but you will still see stacks of kids in Scotland wearing English team kits when playing football in the park. It's simply not true to say Scottish fans view English football in the way the majority English fans view Scottish football. It's very popular up here full stop, as it is around the world.

I would say, however, it's wrong to lump all English football fans into the 'couldn't give a **** about Scottish football' camp. I've come across fans from all over England who have a respectful and knowledgeable awareness of the Scottish game and I've even met fans down the years for whom Hibs are their second team, often travelling north to watch us.

[007]

On a Wednesday? Pubs are usually empty on a Wednesday night unless Man Utd/Liverpool/Der Hun/Shellick are playing in Europe that night


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Precisely!

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Precisely!

Ahhh, sarcasm?[emoji28] sorry about that


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[archie]

One poster higher up this thread says: “England is a different country “.

To which you replied “Don’t be silly”.

So now I get what all this is about.

What's that then?

[Glory Lurker]

It's not just a business case. Because of the licence fee the BBC has a duty to cover a range of subjects. Surely Scottish and English football being free to air is a good thing?

You are dodging the point about whether a decent effort on Scottish football is unacceptable because it would be unfairly subsidising the game out the licence fee payer's pocket. Is there any proof - at all, any - that the BBC spend on English football recovers the output?

[Glory Lurker]

Maybe the same business case made to cover the production costs of Line of Duty etc.?

Different discussion altogether (if it's even a discussion at all, I don't think so). The great defence of the thin gruel that is served up by our national broadcaster is that anything else would be subsidising private interests. Fair dos. Show me that the outlay/income on English football is the same and I'll shut up.

[archie]

You are dodging the point about whether a decent effort on Scottish football is unacceptable because it would be unfairly subsidising the game out the licence fee payer's pocket. Is there any proof - at all, any - that the BBC spend on English football recovers the output?
I'm not dodging anything. The argument here appears to be that the BBC should pay more for Scottish TV rights. Why? Just because it appears. So it's not about unfairly subsidising the Scottish game. The BBC can't bid for something, win it, and then just lob in a few extra million.

[Glory Lurker]

I'm not dodging anything. The argument here appears to be that the BBC should pay more for Scottish TV rights. Why? Just because it appears. So it's not about unfairly subsidising the Scottish game. The BBC can't bid for something, win it, and then just lob in a few extra million.

So they can't pay a bit more to provide a studio show that's worth watching?

Oh, and do we as licence fee payer's make money out of the market-driven price we pay for English football?

[Scotty Leither]

What's that then?

What’s what?

You’ve made some sly dig (presumably political) that because I say we’d have a better chance of watching our national team on free to air TV if we had our own broadcaster, yet you call somebody “silly” for stating a FACT that England is a separate country???

Beats me, I’m oot.

[archie]

So they can't pay a bit more to provide a studio show that's worth watching?

That's not the same thing. I've suggested above some ideas I think would improve the show. But even if they brought in Graham Norton to present it, none of that would mean additional money for Scottish football.

[Glory Lurker]

That's not the same thing. I've suggested above some ideas I think would improve the show. But even if they brought in Graham Norton to present it, none of that would mean additional money for Scottish football.

But did the BBC offer a relative price for Scottish football as they did English football? If not, why not? Do the BBC, in charge of public money, make a return off English football?

It's easy for me to ask questions,to be fair, because the BBc is unaccountable. You are defending them without any stats.

[archie]

What’s what?

You’ve made some sly dig (presumably political) that because I say we’d have a better chance of watching our national team on free to air TV if we had our own broadcaster, yet you call somebody “silly” for stating a FACT that England is a separate country???

Beats me, I’m oot.

Oh really. So a thread that's dripping with blah blah blah ENGLAND...blah blah blah UNIION...blah blah blah SEPARATE COUNTRY...and so on and I make it political? In the real world Scottish football has to do a better job marketing itself. Something Ron Gordon was well aware of.

Btw it's not a FACT that England is a separate country, even if you capitalise it.

[greenlex]

I'm not dodging anything. The argument here appears to be that the BBC should pay more for Scottish TV rights. Why? Just because it appears. So it's not about unfairly subsidising the Scottish game. The BBC can't bid for something, win it, and then just lob in a few extra million.
It’s about paying for something that is of more interest to one part of the uk than the uk as a whole. Most likely over the odds at the “expense” of funding a similar interest elsewhere in the uk. It’s you that’s making it about unfairly subsidising the game up here. It’s about not getting value for our licence fee whilst other seem to be getting more. It’s imbalanced. Nothing to do with funding football. You really are a strange one.
I wonder how much they are *****ing on coronation coverage?

[archie]

But did the BBC offer a relative price for Scottish football as they did English football? If not, why not? Do the BBC, in charge of public money, make a return off English football?

It's easy for me to ask questions,to be fair, because the BBc is unaccountable. You are defending them without any stats.
What does 'relative price' mean. I assume they bid what they thought would take to win the bid, both here and with the EPL. What 'return' do you think they would make given it's free to air? As for the BBC is unaccountable, given that they operate under a royal charter and have obligations not shared by other broadcasters, I can't see how you reach that conclusion.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Oh really. So a thread that's dripping with blah blah blah ENGLAND...blah blah blah UNIION...blah blah blah SEPARATE COUNTRY...and so on and I make it political? In the real world Scottish football has to do a better job marketing itself. Something Ron Gordon was well aware of.

IBTW it's not a FACT that England is a separate country, even if you capitalise it.

But it is, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a political union between four countries. EVEL (abandoned to streamline parliamentary discussion during coronavirus epidemic) confirmed this by making it that all four countries had their own devolved parliament and national identities.

Have a day off, Archie.


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[Glory Lurker]

What does 'relative price' mean. I assume they bid what they thought would take to win the bid, both here and with the EPL. What 'return' do you think they would make given it's free to air? As for the BBC is unaccountable, given that they operate under a royal charter and have obligations not shared by other broadcasters, I can't see how you reach that conclusion.

How much did they bid for the English coverage?

[archie]

It’s about paying for something that is of more interest to one part of the uk than the uk as a whole. Most likely over the odds at the “expense” of funding a similar interest elsewhere in the uk. It’s you that’s making it about unfairly subsidising the game up here. It’s about not getting value for our licence fee whilst other seem to be getting more. It’s imbalanced. Nothing to do with funding football. You really are a strange one.
There's so much assertion here. Do you know that people in Scotland don't want Match of the Day? The notion around imbalance suggests that the BBC should pay more for Scottish football out of some distributed funding arrangement.But why? They bid and they won. It's not a slight to Scotland that the commercial value of Scottish football is what it is. It's an indictment of the people who run Scottish football. As for the 'strange one' comment, that suggests your argument is pretty thin.

[archie]

But it is, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a political union between four countries. EVEL (abandoned to streamline parliamentary discussion during coronavirus epidemic) confirmed this by making it that all four countries had their own devolved parliament and national identities.

Have a day off, Archie.


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I hope you aren't about to sit an exam on The UK constitution any time soon.

[archie]

How much did they bid for the English coverage?

I posted above that they paid £211m for the latest rights. I don't know how many years that covers.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

I hope you aren't about to sit an exam on The UK constitution any time soon.

The UK doesn’t have a written constitution, next.


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[archie]

The UK doesn’t have a written constitution, next.


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It doesn't have a single codified document. Not the same thing as not having one.

[greenlex]

There's so much assertion here. Do you know that people in Scotland don't want Match of the Day? The notion around imbalance suggests that the BBC should pay more for Scottish football out of some distributed funding arrangement.But why? They bid and they won. It's not a slight to Scotland that the commercial value of Scottish football is what it is. It's an indictment of the people who run Scottish football. As for the 'strange one' comment, that suggests your argument is pretty thin.
Not everyone is a football fan and I’ll wager the it’s pretty safe to say majority of people don’t give a flying one for the EPL up here and would baulk at the price paid out the licence fee. Imbalance is exactly that. I’d suggest they pay less for coverage of the English game not more for the Scottish version. You’re still a strange one however thin my argument is.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

It doesn't have a single codified document. Not the same thing as not having one.

Okay so it doesn’t have a written constitution then, there may be ideals that are protected by law but if they’re not codified in a single, specific document it is not a written constitution.


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[archie]

Not everyone is a football fan and I’ll wager the it’s pretty safe to say majority of people don’t give a flying one for the EPL up here and would baulk at the price paid out the licence fee. Imbalance is exactly that. I’d suggest they pay less for coverage of the English game not more fir the Scottish version. You’re still a strange one however thin my argument is.
I don't understand you're being so nasty about it. But on to your point. If they pay less for the coverage they won't have it. You might be pleased about that. Others won't be.

[archie]

Okay so it doesn’t have a written constitution then, there may be ideals that are protected by law but if they’re not codified in a single, specific document it is not a written constitution.


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This might help https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/explainers/what-uk-constitution

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

This might help https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/explainers/what-uk-constitution

So exactly what I said, then.


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[Glory Lurker]

I posted above that they paid £211m for the latest rights. I don't know how many years that covers.

Thanks. You did right enough, sorry.

Is that value for money? What does the licence fee payer get out of it? Does it help limit future increases? Does it offer a way to reduce the licence fee?

If all it's about is getting it free to watch, why is the studio element so far ahead of the Scottish version? Is that value for money? They are a public sector broadcaster, spending our money, so what makes the difference?

[Scotty Leither]

Oh really. So a thread that's dripping with blah blah blah ENGLAND...blah blah blah UNIION...blah blah blah SEPARATE COUNTRY...and so on and I make it political? In the real world Scottish football has to do a better job marketing itself. Something Ron Gordon was well aware of.

Btw it's not a FACT that England is a separate country, even if you capitalise it.

Did you type all that with one finger?

[archie]

So exactly what I said, then.


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You said the UK didn't have a written constitution. The Constitution Unit says:
'The UK is often said to have an ‘unwritten’ constitution. This is not strictly correct. It is largely written, but in different documents.'

So if you think that's exactly what you said then we'll done.

[Salisbury Hibby]

So exactly what I said, then.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSo you introduced the assertion about the UK not having a written constitution because there isn't a single document.

You are correct there isn't a single document.

But the person you're arguing with is also correct that the UK has a constitution based on the Magna Carta, Common Law, Precedent and Statute - so in several documents.

What are you trying to achieve with this argument?

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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

So you introduced the assertion about the UK not having a written constitution because there isn't a single document.

You are correct there isn't a single document.

But the person you're arguing with is also correct that the UK has a constitution based on the Magna Carta, Common Law, Precedent and Statute - so in several documents.

What are you trying to achieve with this argument?

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Nothing really


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[archie]

Thanks. You did right enough, sorry.

Is that value for money? What does the licence fee payer get out of it? Does it help limit future increases? Does it offer a way to reduce the licence fee?

If all it's about is getting it free to watch, why is the studio element so far ahead of the Scottish version? Is that value for money? They are a public sector broadcaster, spending our money, so what makes the difference?

All of these are legitimate points. My only issue with the debate is the notion that there should be some pro rata arrangement on how the BBC (or any broadcaster) bids for rights. Both deals are commercial deals. We need to increase the value of Scottish football to get more cash.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

You said the UK didn't have a written constitution. The Constitution Unit says:
'The UK is often said to have an ‘unwritten’ constitution. This is not strictly correct. It is largely written, but in different documents.'

So if you think that's exactly what you said then we'll done.

Well what I said is that the uk doesn’t have a written constitution as it’s not in one single official document, but I’m happy to leave it there.


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[Glory Lurker]

So you introduced the assertion about the UK not having a written constitution because there isn't a single document.

You are correct there isn't a single document.

But the person you're arguing with is also correct that the UK has a constitution based on the Magna Carta, Common Law, Precedent and Statute - so in several documents.

What are you trying to achieve with this argument?

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I don't much about science books, but I don't think the magna carta is a UK thing?

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

I don't much about science books, but I don't think the magna carta is a UK thing?

It applies to entirety of Great Britain as far as my understanding goes, “Magna Carta contains chapters that deal with the grievances of Welsh Rulers and The King of Scotland” according to Wikipedia.


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[archie]

So you introduced the assertion about the UK not having a written constitution because there isn't a single document.

You are correct there isn't a single document.

But the person you're arguing with is also correct that the UK has a constitution based on the Magna Carta, Common Law, Precedent and Statute - so in several documents.

What are you trying to achieve with this argument?

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Addressing a popular misconception. There is a very interesting discussion on the role and purpose of a codified written constitution. The setting out of rights as a positive, but also the issues we see in the US with the Supreme court. But one for the holy ground I think.

[Glory Lurker]

All of these are legitimate points. My only issue with the debate is the notion that there should be some pro rata arrangement on how the BBC (or any broadcaster) bids for rights. Both deals are commercial deals. We need to increase the value of Scottish football to get more cash.

Not pro rata. That's introducing a measurement that doesn't feature in the bid for the EPL. The BBC didn't set a foot all budget and apportion 66/75s of it to the English game. They probably just went for it (again, easy for me to say because despite funding it they don't give us performance stats).

When I mentioned relative funding I meant how important the game is up here compared to down there. If they can show me they covered that off in their bid, then fair dos.

[Glory Lurker]

It applies to entirety of Great Britain as far as my understanding goes, “Magna Carta contains chapters that deal with the grievances of Welsh Rulers and The King of Scotland” according to Wikipedia.


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Think Wikipedia is having you on. Scotland was a different kingdom (ignoring it being a different nation) at the time.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Think Wikipedia is having you on. Scotland was a different kingdom (ignoring it being a different nation) at the time.

To be fair, the British parliament website says the same thing word for word. “People from all parts of the British Isles came to Runnymede to advise King John and approve the document. Magna Carta contains important chapters that deal with the grievances of Welsh rulers and the King of Scotland.”


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[archie]

Did you type all that with one finger?

Do you like it?

[Eyrie]

To be fair, the British parliament website says the same thing word for word. “People from all parts of the British Isles came to Runnymede to advise King John and approve the document. Magna Carta contains important chapters that deal with the grievances of Welsh rulers and the King of Scotland.”


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You're referring to Clause 59 which was the rebel barons thanking King Alexander for his support for their cause. Although it does refer to treating him in the same way "as our other barons" and "the judgement of his peers in our court" which downgrades him to a vassal.

[Glory Lurker]

To be fair, the British parliament website says the same thing word for word. “People from all parts of the British Isles came to Runnymede to advise King John and approve the document. Magna Carta contains important chapters that deal with the grievances of Welsh rulers and the King of Scotland.”


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Well, they would say that, wouldn't they? :-)

Anyway, at least the opening music is good. Cracking choon. Back from the days when the Beeb...nah, will leave it there!

[Scotty Leither]

Do you like it?

Didn’t bother me much either way pal…strangely enough I thought it read back like a ransom note with all the frenetic capital letters.

[matty_f]

But you get to watch both? It's not like Motd is unavailable in Scotland.

I think this gets missed in this argument. We get Match of the Day and the Scottish highlights plus the Alba coverage.

[Iain G]

Everyone is missing one key point? Do you genuinely think that if Sportscene and Sportsound had a bigger budget it would make any change to either shows? It would be the same narrow minded bunch of BBC Weegie in crowd, just with them getting paid more. It would still be ****.

[JimBHibees]

Shearer dull as dish water as a co-commentator and Ferdinand a pompous arrogant idiot of a man who you would never guess played at a high level based on his comments and as others have said you should remove your comments on Richards

Agree think Ferdinand is awful. Watching an England game on bbc is absolute torture given the bias and lack of analysis of the game and opposition

[hibsbollah]

Agree think Ferdinand is awful. Watching an England game on bbc is absolute torture given the bias and lack of analysis of the game and opposition

I’m not Ferdinand’s biggest fan, but I prefer him or any other English pundits analysis, to McFadden Crichton Richard Foster or whatever idiot they pluck from this weeks m8 weirdo carousel.

[BILLYHIBS]

I am a big fan of Ally McCoist as a co-commentator and starting to warm to Gary Neville

Struggling with any of the current incumbents of BBC Scotland

Rob McLean on Red TV was a welcome throwback recently

Oh for a Bob Crampsey Alistair Alexander Derek Rae or David Francey

[Victor]

Everyone is missing one key point? Do you genuinely think that if Sportscene and Sportsound had a bigger budget it would make any change to either shows? It would be the same narrow minded bunch of BBC Weegie in crowd, just with them getting paid more. It would still be ****.

Probably not, because of the dominance of the Glasgow ogres, it would be the same parochial pish. Something they could learn from MOTD is to treat all clubs the same. However that would mean they would have to employ unbiased presenters, an almost near impossibility when you are recruiting almost exclusively from the Greater Glasgow area.

[He's here!]

Did you type all that with one finger?

Jeez.

[Tyler Durden]

All of these are legitimate points. My only issue with the debate is the notion that there should be some pro rata arrangement on how the BBC (or any broadcaster) bids for rights. Both deals are commercial deals. We need to increase the value of Scottish football to get more cash.

This is the bottom line and the only arguments made to counter this point are purely subjective and emotional

Scottish football is an inferior product. The BBC pays market value as it should do

[Tyler Durden]

I think you are missing the point. If, as someone suggested, the BBC are paying £211 million pound for EPL highlights, that is a massive waste of OUR licence fee. I don’t think the public should be paying that sort of money to an already wealthy organisation. When you put production costs (i.e. presenters salaries) on top of the initial fee then it is even more obscene. Particularly when you consider that not everyone likes football. Maybe Sportscene, with its cheap production costs and minuscule fee paid to the SPL is good value for money after all!


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I’m not missing any point

MOTD is one of the BBCs most popular programmes. You are in a minority complaining about it

[JimBHibees]

I’m not Ferdinand’s biggest fan, but I prefer him or any other English pundits analysis, to McFadden Crichton Richard Foster or whatever idiot they pluck from this weeks m8 weirdo carousel.

Fair enough ours are terrible. Used to like Stewart but has regressed into a Robbie defender. Don’t think McFadden is too bad. Crichton and Foster what is the point.

[Victor]

I’m not missing any point

MOTD is one of the BBCs most popular programmes. You are in a minority complaining about it

You’re still missing the point! I wasn’t complaining about the show, it’s a slick production. I was merely pointing out that in times of austerity the BBC shouldn’t be adding to the EPL’ s already considerable wealth. And if you polled all licence payers, I don’t think I would be in the minority.


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[Tyler Durden]

You’re still missing the point! I wasn’t complaining about the show, it’s a slick production. I was merely pointing out that in times of austerity the BBC shouldn’t be adding to the EPL’ s already considerable wealth. And if you polled all licence payers, I don’t think I would be in the minority.


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I’m really not. You’re claiming it’s a waste of money. It’s a commercial product with a market value

The programme has a big share of the TV audience on a weekly basis. It gives people access to football coverage who might not have other subscriptions (or be clued up on internet access to football)

The fact that it’s expensive does not make it poor value for money.

[greenlex]

The fact that it’s expensive does not make it poor value for money.
If it’s expensive and caters to the minority of licence fee payers then it’s anything but value for money.

[Tyler Durden]

If it’s expensive and caters to the minority of licence fee payers then it’s anything but value for money.

Very obviously is not the case by any metric

There are arguably certain things that are worth paying a premium for too

6 Nations coverage isn’t cheap either for example. The BBC spend a fortune on Glastonbury which isn’t for everyone. Wimbledon.

Personally I think they do a pretty good job. And that is nothing to do with my personal viewing preferences! There is an amazing breadth of content and they get the balance right on value for money IMO

[grunt]

Not specifically a Sportscene issue, but on the wider point about BBC coverage of the Scottish game, interesting to see there are NO Scottish football stories on the football page of the BBC Sport website. Stories about the FA Cup, the EPL, European football, the Women's game, but not Scottish stories.

[Steven79]

Not specifically a Sportscene issue, but on the wider point about BBC coverage of the Scottish game, interesting to see there are NO Scottish football stories on the football page of the BBC Sport website. Stories about the FA Cup, the EPL, European football, the Women's game, but not Scottish stories.Always defaults to English football.

Shouldn't be surprised I suppose...

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[Tyler Durden]

Not specifically a Sportscene issue, but on the wider point about BBC coverage of the Scottish game, interesting to see there are NO Scottish football stories on the football page of the BBC Sport website. Stories about the FA Cup, the EPL, European football, the Women's game, but not Scottish stories.

Apart from the one about Aberdeen beating Rangers

[grunt]

Apart from the one about Aberdeen beating RangersMaybe the page is personalised because I can't see any Aberdeen/Rangers story on the football page ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football

[greenlex]

Very obviously is not the case by any metric

There are arguably certain things that are worth paying a premium for too

6 Nations coverage isn’t cheap either for example. The BBC spend a fortune on Glastonbury which isn’t for everyone. Wimbledon.

Personally I think they do a pretty good job. And that is nothing to do with my personal viewing preferences! There is an amazing breadth of content and they get the balance right on value for money IMO
Absolutely nothing obvious about it. There are almost 25 million licence fee payers in the country. Match of the day gets roughly 2 million viewers.
Hardly premium figures.
For context heres last weeks best bbc viewed programmes
Beyond Paradise 7.5 M
Wild Isles. 5M
Race across the World. 4.5M
Antiques Roadshow. 4.5M
Blue Lights 4.1M

Not looking for an argument but this premium product isn’t value for money. Nor Glastonbury or the six nation or Golf as they’ve already stopped that.

[w pilton hibby]

Maybe the page is personalised because I can't see any Aberdeen/Rangers story on the football page ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football

You need

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish

[Steven79]

You need

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottishHow come...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/English

This dosen't work?

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[007]

Not specifically a Sportscene issue, but on the wider point about BBC coverage of the Scottish game, interesting to see there are NO Scottish football stories on the football page of the BBC Sport website. Stories about the FA Cup, the EPL, European football, the Women's game, but not Scottish stories.

Just click on Leagues & Cups, there are loads of stories in there about Scottish Football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/leagues-cups

https://i.ibb.co/By3S2yv/Screenshot-20230424-175018-Chrome.jpg (https://ibb.co/m9TM59d)

[w pilton hibby]

How come...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/English

This dosen't work?

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No idea. Ask the BBC. Its their website.

[Steven79]

No idea. Ask the BBC. Its their website.I think we all know why...



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[Tyler Durden]

Absolutely nothing obvious about it. There are almost 25 million licence fee payers in the country. Match of the day gets roughly 2 million viewers.
Hardly premium figures.
For context heres last weeks best bbc viewed programmes
Beyond Paradise 7.5 M
Wild Isles. 5M
Race across the World. 4.5M
Antiques Roadshow. 4.5M
Blue Lights 4.1M

Not looking for an argument but this premium product isn’t value for money. Nor Glastonbury or the six nation or Golf as they’ve already stopped that.

A very flawed and old fashioned argument. On a Saturday night it probably has a 25% audience share.

On an annual basis MOTD gets over 40 million streams and is in the BBCs top 20 shows

[Tyler Durden]

Absolutely nothing obvious about it. There are almost 25 million licence fee payers in the country. Match of the day gets roughly 2 million viewers.
Hardly premium figures.
For context heres last weeks best bbc viewed programmes
Beyond Paradise 7.5 M
Wild Isles. 5M
Race across the World. 4.5M
Antiques Roadshow. 4.5M
Blue Lights 4.1M

Not looking for an argument but this premium product isn’t value for money. Nor Glastonbury or the six nation or Golf as they’ve already stopped that.

Also see this from 2019

More than half were positive or neutral on MOTD and it was in the top 100 popular shows across all channels. So license fee payers objectively in favour of the programme
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/entertainment/explore/tv_programme/MOTD

[greenlex]

Also see this from 2019

More than half were positive or neutral on MOTD and it was in the top 100 popular shows across all channels. So license fee payers objectively in favour of the programme
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/entertainment/explore/tv_programme/MOTD
Ah. A good old yougov poll rather than actual viewing figures. I bet the majority of folk paying the licence fee do so because they legally have to and don’t give where it goes a second thought. I’d be surprised if it’s in their mind when doing a popularity poll. Also depends on what question is asked and to whom. The viewing figures suggest it’s not nearly as popular on the BBC as other programmes for a fraction of the budget. I think my thinking it’s not value for money stands. Like I said not looking for an argument just putting last weeks figures out there. Those figures I gave were just the bbc ones. ITV figures featured much higher and more frequently.

[HarpOnHibee]

I bet the majority of folk paying the licence fee do so because they legally have to and don’t give where it goes a second thought.

They think they have to.

[McD]

But you do have the choice. If you want English tv you simply tune in to English tv.
I don’t want to watch English women’s football or FA cup games. My choice very often seems to be to turn off or look for something on a pay per view channel. It tells me the bbc put a disproportionate amount of my licence fee in to English football.
When the Scottish League Cup final was on, bbc and itv were showing us the above live and not even a nod towards a national cup final taking place in part of the uk by any terrestrial channel. It may even have been bbc one and two rather than itv. One way or another two of the principal terrestrial channels were dominated by English football and regularly are.

The Scottish league cup competition that’s sponsored by and wholly broadcast on a subscription channel, who pay for that privilege?

More surprising that you’d expect the BBC to mention something they legally cannot broadcast, why would they?

[McD]

Your experience is a lot different to mine. A large number of Scottish football fans I've ever come across have a preferred English team or at the very least teams they like more than others and teams they dislike.

My experience is the same as yours

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

They think they have to.

Correct, I’ve never paid it and I’ve been waiting for my visit from Mr BBC for around 5 years now.


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[007]

Correct, I’ve never paid it and I’ve been waiting for my visit from Mr BBC for around 5 years now.


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So it's your fault Sportscene is substandard. 🤔

[blackpoolhibs]

Correct, I’ve never paid it and I’ve been waiting for my visit from Mr BBC for around 5 years now.


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Just go online, fill in the form about not having a connected tv and they wont get in touch for another year, it might even be 3 years.

And remember even if someone comes to your door, tell them nothing and just close the door.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Just go online, fill in the form about not having a connected tv and they wont get in touch for another year, it might even be 3 years.

And remember even if someone comes to your door, tell them nothing and just close the door.

I’m actually wanting them to come to the door that’s why I’ve not done that. I want to waste their time, have them come out to my house and just tell them to go away and close the door. ********s.


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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

So it's your fault Sportscene is substandard. [emoji848]

Probably, a lot of things seem to be my fault [emoji1787]


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[007]

I’m actually wanting them to come to the door that’s why I’ve not done that. I want to waste their time, have them come out to my house and just tell them to go away and close the door. ********s.


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Pop your details in here then:

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ96

😃

I love Call My Bluff, don't know why the bloody BBC took it off air.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Pop your details in here then:

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ96

[emoji2]

I love Call My Bluff, don't know why the bloody BBC took it off air.

I can’t believe that even exists, Jesus Christ [emoji23] imagine being the grass that reports folk for watching the telly


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[007]

I can’t believe that even exists, Jesus Christ [emoji23] imagine being the grass that reports folk for watching the telly


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Just don't invite Lee Wallace round and you won't get a drive by from one of these bad boys.

https://i.ibb.co/Q8bkVpd/g4l1yrou2ej91.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Iain G]

A very flawed and old fashioned argument. On a Saturday night it probably has a 25% audience share.

On an annual basis MOTD gets over 40 million streams and is in the BBCs top 20 shows

And is this live viewings, not taking into account the iPlayer watches?

[Iain G]

Maybe the page is personalised because I can't see any Aberdeen/Rangers story on the football page ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football

Yeah the BBC are targeting you as they know you hate the English and are on the wind up 🤣

[Tyler Durden]

And is this live viewings, not taking into account the iPlayer watches?

No

[Victor]

I’m actually wanting them to come to the door that’s why I’ve not done that. I want to waste their time, have them come out to my house and just tell them to go away and close the door. ********s.


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Filled in a report for you.

Mr. E G Bragh 75 Letsby Avenue.

[Iain G]

No

So need to add in those watching on the Sunday morning repeat and on catch up, I expect the figure is quite higher.

[grunt]

Yeah the BBC are targeting you as they know you hate the English and are on the wind up 🤣I knew it!

[Since452]

What is this license fee thing people are talking about?

[hibsbollah]

What is this license fee thing people are talking about?

I think I’m the only person I know that actually has one.

[Tyler Durden]

So need to add in those watching on the Sunday morning repeat and on catch up, I expect the figure is quite higher.

Sorry crossed wires - the over 40 million was the Iplayer streams.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Filled in a report for you.

Mr. E G Bragh 75 Letsby Avenue.

Cheers Victor


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[Alfred E Newman]

The only game in the top six today and we are still last on. Laughable.

[McD]

The only game in the top six today and we are still last on. Laughable.


:agree:

according to them, our goals were all down to st mirren’s bad defending, and I don’t think they even looked at the st mirren goal… utter waste of time

[Bobby's Cinema]

Weird highlights selection. I don't get why they miss key moments in the main highlights and then talk over them afterward, while making time for some nothing shots on target and replays of winning corners. Made the first half seem more even than it was.

[BILLYHIBS]

Van Veen looked sharp 25 goals two shots on target three blocked shots and a sublime first touch for his goal

Mickey Stewart looked genuinely shocked and surprised that we are now only one point behind his beloved Hearts with no chance of anything from Celtic today

[Iain G]

Weird highlights selection. I don't get why they miss key moments in the main highlights and then talk over them afterward, while making time for some nothing shots on target and replays of winning corners. Made the first half seem more even than it was.

Just watched it, it's such a weirdy programme. They could start with a main presenter who give the feeling that they want to be there! And Richard thingy adds nothing to the conversation.

I do wonder if the fact they have to rush it out for a 7ish showing just adds to the amateur, slap dash feel of it? If they had til later in the day could it be tightened up?

They really need new presenters and pundits though.

[Since452]

Why did Dundee United get the end section of the stand behind the goal next to the St Johnstone "ultras"? Always seems to be shut off for us.

[Aldo]

Are we surprised at this amateurish production??

What’s Mikey Stewart saying these days? During the euro run he said the Gorgie Galactious was easily the best of the rest? Not heard much of his love in

[Since452]

Are we surprised at this amateurish production??

What’s Mikey Stewart saying these days? During the euro run he said the Gorgie Galactious was easily the best of the rest? Not heard much of his love in

He's not said if we have an identity now yet.

[JimBHibees]

Are we surprised at this amateurish production??

What’s Mikey Stewart saying these days? During the euro run he said the Gorgie Galactious was easily the best of the rest? Not heard much of his love in

Mikey now in the huff with them after his bestie Robbie got punted

[Since452]

Do you think Amy Macdonald dresses Foster?

[JimBHibees]

Do you think Amy Macdonald dresses Foster?

Without doubt

[Iain G]

Without doubt

In the dark probably

[O'Rourke3]

I do wonder if the fact they have to rush it out for a 7ish showing just adds to the amateur, slap dash feel of it? If they had til later in the day could it be tightened up?


This. MOTD will have a team on each game identifying highlights. BBC Scotland will have someone on a watch noting time of day one of the punters on Open all mics shouts out. Then fit that into the highlight programme. They are competing with Sky to get the goals out first to try and boosr ratings..

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[Since452]

Without doubt

Small price to pay I guess.

[McD]

Weird highlights selection. I don't get why they miss key moments in the main highlights and then talk over them afterward, while making time for some nothing shots on target and replays of winning corners. Made the first half seem more even than it was.


they’ve been doing this for a while now, and totally agree, it’s very weird. It’s like someone’s told them it’s an edgy way of producing football highlights to not show all the key moments in the main highlights then triumphantly throw it out in the analysis section (stop laughing), when it actually just looks like they’ve made a mess of editing the highlights and there’s no joined up thinking between the highlights and pundits (which is probably true)

[Iain G]

they’ve been doing this for a while now, and totally agree, it’s very weird. It’s like someone’s told them it’s an edgy way of producing football highlights to not show all the key moments in the main highlights then triumphantly throw it out in the analysis section (stop laughing), when it actually just looks like they’ve made a mess of editing the highlights and there’s no joined up thinking between the highlights and pundits (which is probably true)

It is true! If they were on at say 10.30pm they could do a proper job and the "experts" could have time to actually analyse the games and provide some "insight". Instead it's a rush to cobble together something that is vaguely watchable in the time slot given, probably the first cut of the footage is all they have time to cobble together. And it shows.

Just part of the problem and this kind of not taking it seriously vibe that comes through doesn't help. It's phoned in every week.

Put it out later in the day, get a good anchor heading up the show who can at least breathe some life and enthusiasm into it, get rid of the tiny cramped studio and mix up the pundits to keep it fresh. Should be easy.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Just watching the highlights of today's game. Anybody see Beaton booking Liam Scales for being pushed to the ground by Todd Cantwell? The refereeing in this country is so corrupt it's not real.

Suits us, hopefully the only point they get is a draw against Hearts.

You’re right, though.


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[Callum_62]

Can any explain how Aberdeen didn't get a free kick possibly a pen for Goldsons bear hug on duk?

Based on Cochrane's he was looking at a possible red card too

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[JimBHibees]

It is true! If they were on at say 10.30pm they could do a proper job and the "experts" could have time to actually analyse the games and provide some "insight". Instead it's a rush to cobble together something that is vaguely watchable in the time slot given, probably the first cut of the footage is all they have time to cobble together. And it shows.

Just part of the problem and this kind of not taking it seriously vibe that comes through doesn't help. It's phoned in every week.

Put it out later in the day, get a good anchor heading up the show who can at least breathe some life and enthusiasm into it, get rid of the tiny cramped studio and mix up the pundits to keep it fresh. Should be easy.

Agree you get the impression they almost want it to be rubbish. Decent highlights decent insight and someone who can link it. Think Amy Irons is the best by what I have seen.

[007]

Can any explain how Aberdeen didn't get a free kick possibly a pen for Goldsons bear hug on duk?

Based on Cochrane's he was looking at a possible red card too

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Refs, particularly Beaton (don't know who was on VAR), don't do penalties against Rangers. You are spot on, he was fouling him outside the box and it carried on into the box.

[JimBHibees]

Refs, particularly Beaton (don't know who was on VAR), don't do penalties against Rangers. You are spot on, he was fouling him outside the box and it carried on into the box.

Var at Ibrox was Steven Kirkland same guy that gave Aberdeen the ridiculous Duk dive penalty at Aberdeen against us. Stevie Wonder would probably do a better job. :greengrin

[Iain G]

Agree you get the impression they almost want it to be rubbish. Decent highlights decent insight and someone who can link it. Think Amy Irons is the best by what I have seen.

Yup agree she is better than Thompson who is bloody miserable. Need to get Mr Amy McDonald out of there as well.

[matty_f]

Can any explain how Aberdeen didn't get a free kick possibly a pen for Goldsons bear hug on duk?

Based on Cochrane's he was looking at a possible red card too

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Take that one and the Sands one against (I think ) Ross County earlier in the season, add them to the countless handball/fouls that should have resulted in penalties against Rangers this season, and tell me that it's not bent.

I know the temptation is to lump Rangers and Celtic into this discussion together, and there's no doubt Celtic get preferential treatment from referees, but Rangers are routinely and systemically favoured by officials and I am 100% certain that it's not just mistakes or incompetence.

All the evidence is there. People will tell you not to believe your own eyes, will dismiss talk of cheating as tin-foil hat stuff, but the stats back it up, there's extensive coverage of decisions that go in their favour - baffling, clear cut decisions that are inexplicable as mistakes, even accounts from old referees who openly admit that they favoured Rangers.

It's a disgrace.

[Keith_M]

Take that one and the Sands one against (I think ) Ross County earlier in the season, add them to the countless handball/fouls that should have resulted in penalties against Rangers this season, and tell me that it's not bent.

I know the temptation is to lump Rangers and Celtic into this discussion together, and there's no doubt Celtic get preferential treatment from referees, but Rangers are routinely and systemically favoured by officials and I am 100% certain that it's not just mistakes or incompetence.

All the evidence is there. People will tell you not to believe your own eyes, will dismiss talk of cheating as tin-foil hat stuff, but the stats back it up, there's extensive coverage of decisions that go in their favour - baffling, clear cut decisions that are inexplicable as mistakes, even accounts from old referees who openly admit that they favoured Rangers.

It's a disgrace.


Rangers are now on a run of 52 consecutive league games with no penalties awarded against them... despite clear incidents like the one yesterday.

Maybe that's what all this 'going for 55' chat was about.

[gbhibby]

Can any explain how Aberdeen didn't get a free kick possibly a pen for Goldsons bear hug on duk?

Based on Cochrane's he was looking at a possible red card too

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalkhttps://twitter.com/FreedomPodcast1/status/1655288600672587778?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Now they can rugby tackle and still not have a penalty awarded against them.[emoji848]

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[HibbyAndy]

https://twitter.com/FreedomPodcast1/status/1655288600672587778?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Now they can rugby tackle and still not have a penalty awarded against them.[emoji848]

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Wow that's a shocker !

[GreenGray]

https://twitter.com/FreedomPodcast1/status/1655288600672587778?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Now they can rugby tackle and still not have a penalty awarded against them.[emoji848]

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I’m going to put my neck on the line here and say I don’t actually think that’s a penalty[emoji2371]

Initial contact started outside the box and by the end both players were tussling with each other.


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[grunt]

I’m going to put my neck on the line here and say I don’t actually think that’s a penalty[emoji2371]

Initial contact started outside the box and by the end both players were tussling with each other.https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvjmbVcWAAQfufF?format=jpg&name=large

[GreenGray]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvjmbVcWAAQfufF?format=jpg&name=large

Fair enough, I more meant by the time they got into the box both players were tussling with eachother. Duk doesn’t even appeal for it? Tbf he probably knew better given the stadium and ref but still.


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[Carheenlea]

Would have been soft, but if we use the penalty they got that against us where Rocky was adjudged to have impeded a Rangers player as a barometer, then that call has to be 100% a penalty.

As clear evidence as you will see of different clubs being held to different rules.

An independent enquiry is urgently required to examine corruption within Scottish football. The arrival of VAR has just highlighted how gullible we were to just pass off these refereeing decisions as simple “errors”.

The longer it’s left unchallenged, the more blatant it’s becoming.

[gbhibby]

Fair enough, I more meant by the time they got into the box both players were tussling with eachother. Duk doesn’t even appeal for it? Tbf he probably knew better given the stadium and ref but still.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAnywhere else on the pitch the ref gives a free kick. Goldson makes the challenge and there is enough contact .Duk is entitled to protect the ball with his body he should have stayed down and not got up. I am sure the other Aberdeen player is pointing that out to him.

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[Sergio sledge]

Would have been soft, but if we use the penalty they got that against us where Rocky was adjudged to have impeded a Rangers player as a barometer, then that call has to be 100% a penalty.

As clear evidence as you will see of different clubs being held to different rules.

An independent enquiry is urgently required to examine corruption within Scottish football. The arrival of VAR has just highlighted how gullible we were to just pass off these refereeing decisions as simple “errors”.

The longer it’s left unchallenged, the more blatant it’s becoming.

Even if people don't think it is a penalty (there's absolutely no mention of it on the VAR review video on the BBC website, so they obviously don't think it is contentious...) is there not a case to say that Goldson was denying a clear goal scoring opportunity with his initial tug on Duk? If you look at Stuart Dougal's arguments here about the Cochrane and Mulgrew challenges https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/65523934 then surely the same has to apply to Goldson here. There are no covering defenders and Duk turns into the box so Goldson's initial tug on him is denying Duk a clear run and chance of a shot at goal.

Did VAR even look at this during the game?

[BILLYHIBS]

The Rangers have not conceded a pen in 50 games in this age of VAR

At worst this is a foul outside the box and a sending off

Absolute disgrace


https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/1655322970401767425?s=46&t=-WLp_Dlz0ikIP1rStFdqBg

[GreenGray]

The Rangers have not conceded a pen in 50 games in this age of VAR

At worst this is a foul outside the box and a sending off

Absolute disgrace


https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/1655322970401767425?s=46&t=-WLp_Dlz0ikIP1rStFdqBg

Yeah that stat is a disgrace, think we’ve conceded 13 in the league since they last conceded one


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[Kato]

Wow that's a shocker !Great tackle if he's stopping him scoring a try.

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[gbhibby]

A Fergie Aberdeen side would have been surrounding the referee and be in his face.
All football fans just want consistency by refs,there should be no excuse as we have VAR now to highlight clear and obvious errors.

[Keith_M]

A Fergie Aberdeen side would have been surrounding the referee and be in his face.
All football fans just want consistency by refs,there should be no excuse as we have VAR now to highlight clear and obvious errors.


TBH, I used to hate it when Fergie's teams did that, but I can see why he probably felt it necessary when he was at Aberdeen.

[SHODAN]

They will get a couple awarded against them v St Mirren/the Hertz now there's nothing to play for.

[hibby rae]

A Fergie Aberdeen side would have been surrounding the referee and be in his face.
All football fans just want consistency by refs,there should be no excuse as we have VAR now to highlight clear and obvious errors.

But they've never provided a definition of what that is.

I think they could start off by having a time limit on how long they can replay the footage e.g. 30 secs and if they are still not sure then it's not clear and obvious

[Steven79]

But they've never provided a definition of what that is.

I think they could start off by having a time limit on how long they can replay the footage e.g. 30 secs and if they are still not sure then it's not clear and obviousThat in itself should be clear obvious...

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[gbhibby]

Didn't even get mentioned on ref watch on sky.

[HibbyAndy]

Didn't even get mentioned on ref watch on sky.

Noticed that , Nothing to see here move along , He did say it was a deserved red at Tynecastle tho , Which i agree with

[Aldo]

Just watched this clip in utter disbelief. Whilst I would suggest the initial offence was outside the box and therefore not a penalty if that was any other player outwith the OF the ref has the red card out before the player hits the ground.

If this was the other way round you can guarantee penalty and red card.

Blatant cheating by the officials

[A Hi-Bee]

Would have been soft, but if we use the penalty they got that against us where Rocky was adjudged to have impeded a Rangers player as a barometer, then that call has to be 100% a penalty.

As clear evidence as you will see of different clubs being held to different rules.

An independent enquiry is urgently required to examine corruption within Scottish football. The arrival of VAR has just highlighted how gullible we were to just pass off these refereeing decisions as simple “errors”.

The longer it’s left unchallenged, the more blatant it’s becoming.

:top marks just a pity it will never happen.

[Pete70]

Didn't even get mentioned on ref watch on sky.

Or the BBC’s VARdict

[rossevenil]

BBC making a complete ass of themselves once again with the match stats from the game today!
Apparently Aberdeen had more shots at goal and even more on target than Hibs today and 50/50 possession,could have sworn the highlights I just watched showed a totally dominant performance despite the fact we couldn`t convert
at least 1 for the win!

[ekhibee]

BBC making a complete ass of themselves once again with the match stats from the game today!
Apparently Aberdeen had more shots at goal and even more on target than Hibs today and 50/50 possession,could have sworn the highlights I just watched showed a totally dominant performance despite the fact we couldn`t convert
at least 1 for the win!

On Sportscene they said we had 17 shots on goal, Aberdeen had nothing like that.

[Pete70]

Stats from the BBC website

Possession
Home 47% Away 53%

Shots
Home 8 Away 17

Shots on Target
Home 2 Away 5

Corners
Home 3 Away 8

Fouls
Home 10 Away 17

[The Baldmans Comb]

The good old BBC lol 😂.

Stop complaining and get off your knees and give them the GTF as their comeback is non existent. 😂

[Onceinawhile]

BBC making a complete ass of themselves once again with the match stats from the game today!
Apparently Aberdeen had more shots at goal and even more on target than Hibs today and 50/50 possession,could have sworn the highlights I just watched showed a totally dominant performance despite the fact we couldn`t convert
at least 1 for the win!

I think it was from a different game.

They had the attendance as 7k odd.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Didn’t see the game but looks from sportscene like we should have won. Disappointing. Awful penalty from Nisbet.

Hearts red card is a shocker. How a ref can watch that and then a VAR team can also watch it and say it’s a red card is beyond me.

[Callum_62]

Didn’t see the game but looks from sportscene like we should have won. Disappointing. Awful penalty from Nisbet.

Hearts red card is a shocker. How a ref can watch that and then a VAR team can also watch it and say it’s a red card is beyond me.The red card for Haring is simply Jimmy Jeggo levels of unbelievable - infact it's probably worse

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[ChilliEater]

The red card for Haring is simply Jimmy Jeggo levels of unbelievable - infact it's probably worse

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I just watched it - I thought he came lunging in, missed the ball completely and cleaned up his opponent. Thought it was a stick on red :confused::confused: Might have to watch it again. Their penalty was very soft.

[Ringothedog]

BBC making a complete ass of themselves once again with the match stats from the game today!
Apparently Aberdeen had more shots at goal and even more on target than Hibs today and 50/50 possession,could have sworn the highlights I just watched showed a totally dominant performance despite the fact we couldn`t convert
at least 1 for the win!

They also had the crowd as 7000 and players who are long gone from the club being booked

[Broken Gnome]

I just watched it - I thought he came lunging in, missed the ball completely and cleaned up his opponent. Thought it was a stick on red :confused::confused: Might have to watch it again. Their penalty was very soft.

There's probably no one on this site - and they'd be right - that thinks Grant Brebner's was a red card all those years ago. Brebner was more of a red than Haring I'd have thought, who's was the sort of tackle that's always been a yellow and no more.

[007]

I just watched it - I thought he came lunging in, missed the ball completely and cleaned up his opponent. Thought it was a stick on red :confused::confused: Might have to watch it again. Their penalty was very soft.

I thought the red was a bit like Porteous's v Rangers 2 or 3 seasons ago.

https://youtu.be/Ahp_9eK16jw?t=216

Yes thought penalty was soft but was the St Mirren guys own stupid fault for putting his hand on Ginnelly at all. He was going away from goal.

Would like to see the foul from another angle which St Mirren scored their 2nd from as, to be fair, looked like the Hearts guy won the header fairly but guess his arm must have caught the boy with his arm at the same time.

[McD]

I thought the red was a bit like Porteous's v Rangers 2 or 3 seasons ago.

https://youtu.be/Ahp_9eK16jw?t=216

Yes thought penalty was soft but was the St Mirren guys own stupid fault for putting his hand on Ginnelly at all. He was going away from goal.

Would like to see the foul from another angle which St Mirren scored their 2nd from as, to be fair, looked like the Hearts guy won the header fairly but guess his arm must have caught the boy with his arm at the same time.


I thought about the porteous similarities too


as for the penalty, it’s as soft as the one rangers got against us, ginnelly waited for the guy to touch him and collapsed in a heap, the defender was stupid to touch him, in those situations keep shepherding the guy continue towards the byline, make him do something rather than give him an easy out.

I’m frustrated that they got a cheap penalty, but the defender has to take the blame. Defenders do exactly the same when facing their own byline with an attacker at their back, wait for a brush then throw themselves forward and the linesmen always give a cheap free kick

[big gogs]

The Rangers have not conceded a pen in 50 games in this age of VAR

At worst this is a foul outside the box and a sending off

Absolute disgrace


https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/1655322970401767425?s=46&t=-WLp_Dlz0ikIP1rStFdqBg
Are you implying that rangers are playing to different rules than the rest of us.how many goals has tavanier scored through penalties alone.

[BILLYHIBS]

Fair do’s

Brilliant finish from Ginnelly -goal of the season contender

Excellent finish from the foreheid

Muted celebration from the exAberdeen player - probably thought he was miles offside-until he realises the magnitude of his goal when awarded

Hearts look vulnerable at set pieces

Still not convinced by either Manager long may they continue

[BILLYHIBS]

Are you implying that rangers are playing to different rules than the rest of us.how many goals has tavanier scored through penalties alone.

Only the 52

13 missed


:confused:

March 2023

[JimBHibees]

Fair do’s

Brilliant finish from Ginnelly -goal of the season contender

Excellent finish from the foreheid

Muted celebration from the exAberdeen player - probably thought he was miles offside-until he realises the magnitude of his goal when awarded

Hearts look vulnerable at set pieces

Still not convinced by either Manager long may they continue

Thought hearts played well yesterday. Aberdeen were pretty poor though could have had more than one goal and defended pretty well. Second half Dons were knocking it long.

[flash]

Only the 52

13 missed


:confused:

He has never missed 13 has he?

[flash]

Curtis Main back to being the decent striker he was at Motherwell again.

[BILLYHIBS]

He has never missed 13 has he?

https://i.ibb.co/1bHwhhj/IMG-1596.png (https://ibb.co/8XFSTTt)

[flash]

https://i.ibb.co/1bHwhhj/IMG-1596.png (https://ibb.co/8XFSTTt)

If you had asked me I would have said he has missed a handful at most.

[JimBHibees]

Curtis Main back to being the decent striker he was at Motherwell again.

Should have scored about 5 yesterday however agree a decent physical striker

[flash]

Should have scored about 5 yesterday however agree a decent physical striker

Could do with Celtic starting that central defence again midweek.

[JimBHibees]

Could do with Celtic starting that central defence again midweek.

Yep they were terrible

[JimBHibees]

If you had asked me I would have said he has missed a handful at most.

Think he has missed a fair number but what usually happens he misses one and then gets another one later in the game to make up for it. :greengrin

[BILLYHIBS]

If you had asked me I would have said he has missed a handful at most.

Checking the stats on Sofascore

37:44

[stokesmessiah]

Has the hibs highlights been on yet?

[Steven79]

Has the hibs highlights been on yet?Nope.

Probably on last...

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[Paulie Walnuts]

Either last or second last :faf:

[HendoDelivered]

Is it even on tonight?

[stokesmessiah]

Is it even on tonight?

It’s on now…don’t think the Hibs highlights have been on yet

[HendoDelivered]

It’s on now…don’t think the Hibs highlights have been on yet

So it is! Magic. Thanks mate.

[Ryan91]

Second to last on the highlights, they're discussing the Sheep now, Hearts-Hun love-in next, but I cba sticking up to watch it

[Billy Whizz]

Nope.

Probably on last...

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Our game did run onto 9.50pm or so. 17 mins of stoppage time between the 1st and 2nd half’s

[HarpOnHibee]

Our game did run onto 9.50pm or so. 17 mins of stoppage time between the 1st and 2nd half’s

I'm sure I can hear them chopping up the tape in the background. :greengrin

[GreenGray]

Such bad highlights, didn’t show any of our chances in the first half and didn’t even show the hand ball they were checking VAR for their second. What’s the point?


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[JimBHibees]

Such bad highlights, didn’t show any of our chances in the first half and didn’t even show the hand ball they were checking VAR for their second. What’s the point?


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Yes pathetic seemed as if we only had four shots.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Would like to find out who the match editor is,must be a deluded poppy thief 💩

[JimBHibees]

Would like to find out who the match editor is,must be a deluded poppy thief 💩

Rumour he is.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I especially liked the fact they showed Celtics second goal, showed the fact it went to VAR for a handball but couldn’t be arsed to show us the handball in question.

[JoeT_WasTheBest]

Has anyone found the official YouTube highlights? All I can find so far are the ones full of ads.

To say the Sportscene ones didn’t do our game justice is an understatement!

[BILLYHIBS]

Shambles of a show missed out large chunks of Hibs v Celtic could have been sooo much better

Disappointing

Notable performances from Kevin Van Veen - first player to score 10 consecutive goals for Motherwell for 100 years Doubles from Graeme Shinnie and Kyle Vassell not forgetting the star of the day Scott Bain :greengrin

[SouthMoroccoStu]

I especially liked the fact they showed Celtics second goal, showed the fact it went to VAR for a handball but couldn’t be arsed to show us the handball in question.

Disgraceful

That’s proof it should have been chopped off

[Chorley Hibee]

I especially liked the fact they showed Celtics second goal, showed the fact it went to VAR for a handball but couldn’t be arsed to show us the handball in question.

Said the same last night.

Really convenient editing.

[Cat Stanton]

Has anyone found the official YouTube highlights? All I can find so far are the ones full of ads.

To say the Sportscene ones didn’t do our game justice is an understatement!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqTugqaeMPU

[Cat Stanton]

I especially liked the fact they showed Celtics second goal, showed the fact it went to VAR for a handball but couldn’t be arsed to show us the handball in question.

even the basic five minutes' highlights on the SPFL youtube channel shows the (alleged) handball (it also show Youan's earlier chances).

sportscene was dismal.

[ekhibee]

I have to say, Neil McCann is definitely one of the most annoying pundits on Sportscene.