It's been coming. Jack Ross out.

[jacomo]

No they are not, but it doesn’t stop those who are fully behind him continually repeating it. Although to be fair when a thread runs long enough its usually the case that the same points get raised.

I totally understand why fans are still fully behind him, I just wish they would recognise that those who aren’t or have doubts haven’t just formed that opinion on the back of four losses.


Indeed. Some folk were anti from the beginning and waiting for the opportunity to stick the knife in.

[jacomo]

According to some on here though. "It's only a couple of games we've lost FFS" 🤣


:confused:

[ekhibee]

Although I'm not his biggest fan, I think it's still a bit early for Ross to be moved on. At the moment we're 9 points off the top and 9 points off the bottom. The league could change really quickly with just a couple of good results. I do think if we lose the next 2 games Ron Gordon might end up having to 'back the manager' and we all know where that often ends up. I'm still of the belief that we shouldn't sack a manager just cos we're boring to watch and somewhat predictable, we will still pick up points here and there, and I don't regard us as relegation material. Yet. If he's only got a season or two left on his contract let him run it down then drive him down personally to Mansfield Town or Wycombe Wanderers.

[Since452]

Indeed. Some folk were anti from the beginning and waiting for the opportunity to stick the knife in.

100%. There were some who thought he was a great appointment and some that didn't want him. Despite a brilliant season last season if you look at the history of the club and the mess he inherited, a lot have stuck to their guns and there is a feeling of "told you so" after his first bad spell. Can't really be arsed with it anymore.

[jacomo]

100%. There were some who thought he was a great appointment and some that didn't want him. Despite a brilliant season last season if you look at the history of the club and the mess he inherited, a lot have stuck to their guns and there is a feeling of "told you so" after his first bad spell. Can't really be arsed with it anymore.


This seems near universal amongst football fans. Folk like to have a go… if they are wrong, they’ll go quiet, if they are proved correct they will bang on and on and on about it, while having a dig at others.

“I said Jack Ross would be a bad manager back in 2008 but apparently I don’t know what I’m talking about according to some on here.”

So, so boring.

[B.H.F.C]

Indeed. Some folk were anti from the beginning and waiting for the opportunity to stick the knife in.

I don’t think that’s the case. He had a good start and folk were pretty happy. I certainly was. Then the disappearing acts started, three in a two week period against Celtic, Rangers and Livingston at Christmas 2019 (which was made a bit happier by beating Hearts in between). It was a mixed bag at best between the winter break and Covid hitting thereafter.

I’ve always kind of seen it from both sides (I think) but there’s been too many games where we’ve just not turned up for me now.

[bingo70]

I don’t think that’s the case. He had a good start and folk were pretty happy. I certainly was. Then the disappearing acts started, three in a two week period against Celtic, Rangers and Livingston at Christmas 2019 (which was made a bit happier by beating Hearts in between). It was a mixed bag at best between the winter break and Covid hitting thereafter.

I’ve always kind of seen it from both sides (I think) but there’s been too many games where we’ve just not turned up for me now.

I don’t remember too many people being disappointed at the time. I think he was the overwhelmingly popular choice. I’m sure some were against him but for the most part he was a popular appointment.

The idea that those that are unhappy now are simply having that opinion so they can so I told you so is nonsense IMO,

I think something that is happening is people who are still in support of him are saying it’s a knee jerk reaction as it’s only 3 or 4 defeats, people are responding by saying they thought we were ***** last season too to prove its not just based on recent performances.

[Andy74]

I don’t remember too many people being disappointed at the time. I think he was the overwhelmingly popular choice. I’m sure some were against him but for the most part he was a popular appointment.

The idea that those that are unhappy now are simply having that opinion so they can so I told you so is nonsense IMO,

I think something that is happening is people who are still in support of him are saying it’s a knee jerk reaction as it’s only 3 or 4 defeats, people are responding by saying they thought we were ***** last season too to prove its not just based on recent performances.

Having an unreasonable view last year doesn’t support the quick turning against him this year. It shows that for whatever reason he was not going to get credit for anything really and despite all the protestations in recent months it was always a case of 2 or 3 games before those people became active against him.

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t remember too many people being disappointed at the time. I think he was the overwhelmingly popular choice. I’m sure some were against him but for the most part he was a popular appointment.

The idea that those that are unhappy now are simply having that opinion so they can so I told you so is nonsense IMO,

I think something that is happening is people who are still in support of him are saying it’s a knee jerk reaction as it’s only 3 or 4 defeats, people are responding by saying they thought we were ***** last season too to prove its not just based on recent performances.

I agree.

Loads of things folk are moaning about now were being moaned about fairly early in his time here. The games that I mentioned in December 2019, we’ve seen plenty of them since. Starting games slowly at ER. Then you chuck in the non event of a performance against Hearts, sending off and capitulation against Aberdeen. It’s all things we’re still seeing.

Obviously expect us to get beat relatively regularly being Hibs, but when we lose there just often something really bad about it

[madhatter]

100%. There were some who thought he was a great appointment and some that didn't want him. Despite a brilliant season last season if you look at the history of the club and the mess he inherited, a lot have stuck to their guns and there is a feeling of "told you so" after his first bad spell. Can't really be arsed with it anymore.

Has anybody on here actually said "told you so"? Genuine question because when other people stick to their guns and their opinion differs to mine I get frustrated as well but I don't think I'd put it down to a "told you so", more like a "we will never agree on anything" feeling.

I'll be honest, I was happy when Hecky left and thought Ross may have been a decent appointment but something has always niggled at me. He comes across a bit like Hecky, speaks a good game but I've never been fully convinced in what he is saying. I can't help that being the way I feel, that isn't on Ross or anybody else. It's just the way I feel. I guess, in a strange way, it's similar to the "told you so" vibe you get from others that might not be intending to give that off (some obviously are - although mainly on other social media platforms from what I've seen).

You can't make people think the same way as you and you can't make people like any manager, Jack Ross or otherwise. I'm sure there have been more than a few managers you haven't particularly liked through the years - by liked I don't mean personally, I quite like Jack Ross and the way he speaks but I question whether he is right man for the club I support.

I'm definitely swaying strongly to the "he has to go" side but in truth, whether it's partially due to Covid, our new owner going mega into the commercial side, a football team that I don't particularly enjoying watching unless Boyle has a cracking game...well, I'm a bit bored with Hibs. Everything is stale and tbh I feel like we've lost "we are a football club first and foremost". So, that doesn't help Jack Ross or any manager at the moment.

[madhatter]

Having an unreasonable view last year doesn’t support the quick turning against him this year. It shows that for whatever reason he was not going to get credit for anything really and despite all the protestations in recent months it was always a case of 2 or 3 games before those people became active against him.

Calling someone else's view unreasonable does not mean you can disregard it and come up with your own story. I wasn't happy with the football last year and of course people who didn't like the football kept quiet when we were winning...what do you want from them? Complain about the football when we are winning? People barely get space to complain when we are losing on here without getting accused of having a pitchfork hanging at the front door...

[bingo70]

Having an unreasonable view last year doesn’t support the quick turning against him this year. It shows that for whatever reason he was not going to get credit for anything really and despite all the protestations in recent months it was always a case of 2 or 3 games before those people became active against him.

You call it an unreasonable view but if people just weren’t enjoying watching his Hibs team then that’s what they felt, unreasonable or not that’s just what people were entitle to think.

I don’t think at any point we could justify sacking him and I still think that, I’ve never enjoyed watching this Hibs team though and I struggled to pretend I did. There’s been times I’ve tried to change my mind b it you’re right it doesn’t take long for me to change my mind back again.

I want to get back to watching a team I enjoy supporting and doesn’t feel like a chore. I know for some people winning matches is all that matters but I’m not one of them.

[jacomo]

I don’t think that’s the case. He had a good start and folk were pretty happy. I certainly was. Then the disappearing acts started, three in a two week period against Celtic, Rangers and Livingston at Christmas 2019 (which was made a bit happier by beating Hearts in between). It was a mixed bag at best between the winter break and Covid hitting thereafter.

I’ve always kind of seen it from both sides (I think) but there’s been too many games where we’ve just not turned up for me now.


It’s undoubtedly the case.

I’m not including you in this, I’m sure you’ve given him a fair go and you are entitled to your opinion.

But some didn’t want him to get the job and are now revelling in this poor run. This is true at clubs everywhere and symptomatic of the world we live in unfortunately.

[007]

It’s undoubtedly the case.

I’m not including you in this, I’m sure you’ve given him a fair go and you are entitled to your opinion.

But some didn’t want him to get the job and are now revelling in this poor run. This is true at clubs everywhere and symptomatic of the world we live in unfortunately.

Maybe they wanted Stendel instead. 😯

[B.H.F.C]

It’s undoubtedly the case.

I’m not including you in this, I’m sure you’ve given him a fair go and you are entitled to your opinion.

But some didn’t want him to get the job and are now revelling in this poor run. This is true at clubs everywhere and symptomatic of the world we live in unfortunately.

Disagree with that. I’m fairly miserable about Hibs at the moment but I’ll still be in Dingwall tomorrow. I know you weren’t including me, but I’m not revelling in how crap I find us under Ross and I’m not sure there are many people who are (who actually support Hibs). Think it’s just an easy thing to throw out in response to a lot of negative, even if constructive, points.

FWIW, whilst I don’t think people are happy with us not being very good, and I don’t think many are revelling in it, I do think there probably are folk who would take a few bad results if it forced a change.

[The Modfather]

Having an unreasonable view last year doesn’t support the quick turning against him this year. It shows that for whatever reason he was not going to get credit for anything really and despite all the protestations in recent months it was always a case of 2 or 3 games before those people became active against him.

Out of interest what’s your take on Solskjaer and how he splits the Man U support? He’s made numerous semi finals and finals, finished second last season and has the third best win % in Man United history. Is it unreasonable of those that want him sacked and have done for a long time? Or is there a debate to be had where on paper it’s difficult to make a case to sack him but in reality there’s a very real debate about how limited a manager he is at the top level?

[Crunchie]

According to some on here though. "It's only a couple of games we've lost FFS" 🤣
Liverpool lost 4 in a row and 8 out of 12 league games last season 6 of those were at home, can you believe some fans were calling for Klopp's head? Wait a minute...........

[bingo70]

Liverpool lost 4 in a row and 8 out of 12 league games last season 6 of those were at home, can you believe some fans were calling for Klopp's head? Wait a minute...........

The Liverpool fans enjoyed watching Klopps teams before that dip in form though so it’s not a relevant comparison.

Recent criticism of Ross isn’t just because of how we’ve played these last 4 games, it goes back to people not enjoying watching his Hibs team last season too.

[Crunchie]

The Liverpool fans enjoyed watching Klopps teams before that dip in form though so it’s not a relevant comparison.

Recent criticism of Ross isn’t just because of how we’ve played these last 4 games, it goes back to people not enjoying watching his Hibs team last season too.
Finishing 3rd and winning all those games would suggest otherwise, only the few looking to play the mythical 'Hibs way' that's never actually existed were unhappy.

[90274]

Liverpool lost 4 in a row and 8 out of 12 league games last season 6 of those were at home, can you believe some fans were calling for Klopp's head? Wait a minute...........

Different universes, but if one situation can be more relatable, I think its Solskjaer more than Klopp.

Even people that don't like Liverpool enjoy watching them play and respect Klopp.

[matty_f]

Out of interest what’s your take on Solskjaer and how he splits the Man U support? He’s made numerous semi finals and finals, finished second last season and has the third best win % in Man United history. Is it unreasonable of those that want him sacked and have done for a long time? Or is there a debate to be had where on paper it’s difficult to make a case to sack him but in reality there’s a very real debate about how limited a manager he is at the top level?
Surely all those achievements blow the idea that he’s a very limited manager at that level out of the water?

How limited is he? He’s only got third best win rate in Man United’s history.

[Crunchie]

Different universes, but if one situation can be relatable, I think its Solskjaer more than Klopp.

Even people that don't like Liverpool enjoy watching them play and respect Klopp.
It's all relative, the greatest teams in history have gone through sticky patches at some point.

[90274]

It's all relative, the greatest teams in history have gone through sticky patches at some point.

True, but I think one of the biggest factors for Jack Ross is that quite a number of fans aren't really bought in with him and have said they wouldn't be bothered either way if he walked away. Which when you think about it, is crazy in a kind of way, as he got to at least the Semi final in 3 Cup competitions last season, reached a final and finished 3rd. For me that says a lot.

[B.H.F.C]

Surely all those achievements blow the idea that he’s a very limited manager at that level out of the water?

How limited is he? He’s only got third best win rate in Man United’s history.

What’s he got to show for his win rate?

Got a quality group of players and failing to get the best from them.

[bingo70]

Finishing 3rd and winning all those games would suggest otherwise, only the few looking to play the mythical 'Hibs way' that's never actually existed were unhappy.

If people didn’t enjoy watching his teams, they didn’t enjoy watching his teams, I don’t know what you want people to say?

To some people, like you, finishing 3rd and winning games is all that matters, that’s absolutely fine, you’re perfectly entitled to like what you want.

Some other people would prefer to watch a more entertaining, possibly even a higher risk style of football, even if that means sacrificing some wins. That’s also fine, they’re also entitled to their opinion.

Everyone knows we finished 3rd last season, repeating that a million times isn’t going to make us suddenly enjoy this team.

What finishing 3rd did last season season was buy him time so when he inevitable went through a run like this he quite rightly wouldn’t get sacked. He’s got plenty credit in the bank because of that position last season.

It does mean though that as soon as results started to dip he was always likely to get a lot of criticism quickly from people who don’t like his style of football.

[90274]

Out of interest what’s your take on Solskjaer and how he splits the Man U support? He’s made numerous semi finals and finals, finished second last season and has the third best win % in Man United history. Is it unreasonable of those that want him sacked and have done for a long time? Or is there a debate to be had where on paper it’s difficult to make a case to sack him but in reality there’s a very real debate about how limited a manager he is at the top level?

Looking past the fact that they are different worlds, it is actually a good comparison.

[hibsbollah]

Surely all those achievements blow the idea that he’s a very limited manager at that level out of the water?

How limited is he? He’s only got third best win rate in Man United’s history.

I dont think his limited achievements do blow that theory out of the water.
Ole doesnt have the tactical strength to match what the other top managers do on the pitch.
Im not pretending I know what these intricacies are either, by the way, before posters start throwing around 'keyboard geniuses' accusations :greengrin

But if you look at Tuchel at Chelsea, he can come in and with a single weeks training can turn a Chelsea team with no defensive shape and solidity under Lampard into a team that is virtually impossible to score against. Just be obsessional attention to detail and knowing where to tell players to stand in different situations. Ole doesnt have that knowledge. His strengths seem to be making players feel good about themselves, being a nice guy, fostering a team spirit etc. Their wins seem to be a product of individuals winning 1 on 1 battles and being faster on the break (#transition) than their opponents, this works against some teams but wont make you European champions, i think thats the difference.

Im not sure how relevant any of that is to the Jack Ross situation. Ross' teams seem to play a tactically conservative game, but not really comparable with a counterattacking style like Man U or a possession total football thing like Chelsea, probably those styles cant be replicated at our level of football because of the gulf in quality.

[J-C]

I dont think his limited achievements do blow that theory out of the water.
Ole doesnt have the tactical strength to match what the other top managers do on the pitch.
Im not pretending I know what these intricacies are either, by the way, before posters start throwing around 'keyboard geniuses' accusations :greengrin

But if you look at Tuchel at Chelsea, he can come in and with a single weeks training can turn a Chelsea team with no defensive shape and solidity under Lampard into a team that is virtually impossible to score against. Just be obsessional attention to detail and knowing where to tell players to stand in different situations. Ole doesnt have that knowledge. His strengths seem to be making players feel good about themselves, being a nice guy, fostering a team spirit etc. Their wins seem to be a product of individuals winning 1 on 1 battles and being faster on the break (#transition) than their opponents, this works against some teams but wont make you European champions, i think thats the difference.

Im not sure how relevant any of that is to the Jack Ross situation. Ross' teams seem to play a tactically conservative game, but not really comparable with a counterattacking style like Man U or a possession total football thing like Chelsea, probably those styles cant be replicated at our level of football because of the gulf in quality.

Been reported that Ole doesn't actually take the training, its left up to his coaches, so how does he know his vision is getting across?

[The Modfather]

Surely all those achievements blow the idea that he’s a very limited manager at that level out of the water?

How limited is he? He’s only got third best win rate in Man United’s history.

Limited manager at the very top, not necessarily a bad manager. Look at the impact Tuchel had straight away at Chelsea. Would Klopp, Tuchel or Guardiola have done more with the tools and money Solskjaer has, I believe they would. None of those managers have teams that can look shambolic one half and excellent the other on a regular basis.

Think MNF showed that at this point Solskjaer and Klopps records are almost identical. This was the point Klopp then moved up several levels and was getting close to 100 points in consecutive seasons and where we are today. Are there any signs Solskjaer is getting closer to the levels of Klopp, Guardiola or Tuchel? He’s probably moving in the other direction IMO despite what the stats on paper say.

[hibsbollah]

Been reported that Ole doesn't actually take the training, its left up to his coaches, so how does he know his vision is getting across?

Its all a bit of a messy situation. bringing CR7 back, Ole at the wheel, i heard someone call Man Utd a 'legacy project' the other day, trying to use links to their glory years under Ferguson, seems a good description. Even down to Harry McGuire as a crap Steve Bruce.

[jeffers]

If people didn’t enjoy watching his teams, they didn’t enjoy watching his teams, I don’t know what you want people to say?

To some people, like you, finishing 3rd and winning games is all that matters, that’s absolutely fine, you’re perfectly entitled to like what you want.

Some other people would prefer to watch a more entertaining, possibly even a higher risk style of football, even if that means sacrificing some wins. That’s also fine, they’re also entitled to their opinion.

Everyone knows we finished 3rd last season, repeating that a million times isn’t going to make us suddenly enjoy this team.

What finishing 3rd did last season season was buy him time so when he inevitable went through a run like this he quite rightly wouldn’t get sacked. He’s got plenty credit in the bank because of that position last season.

It does mean though that as soon as results started to dip he was always likely to get a lot of criticism quickly from people who don’t like his style of football.

Its a pity this post couldn’t be pinned and referred to the next time someone makes the point about fans being unreasonable in having doubts or wanting Ross gone simply because he’s lost 4 games. It’s not true.

[Keith_M]

.... probably those styles cant be replicated at our level of football because of the gulf in quality.


I had a to read that part a few times till I realised that it didn't actually say "the guff in quality"


:rotflmao:

[hibsbollah]

I had a to read that part a few times till I realised that it didn't actually say "the guff in quality"


:rotflmao:

:greengrin

To be fair to Stendel when he was across the city, he tried something very progressive with the German uberpress thing, certainly worked from game to game (when they beat us in the pre-lockdown derby that was the best id seem them play since the Vlad financial doping era) but it ended up getting them relegated. You need better players or a few years reprogramming their brains instead of a few months to get that to work at our level.

[bigwheel]

Big game for Ross and the team today. Need to find an approach to get back on winning ways

[Peevemor]

Its a pity this post couldn’t be pinned and referred to the next time someone makes the point about fans being unreasonable in having doubts or wanting Ross gone simply because he’s lost 4 games. It’s not true.But some have been unreasonable though, apparently being incapable of giving JR or the team any credit at times.

If we play well it's only because the other team's playing badly.

If we have 60%+ of possession it's only because the other side wants us to. If the opposite happens it's because we're playing crap.

FFS Ross play Wood.

FFS send Wood to back to his club.

Play Gullan - what's the point of having him on the bench.

Ross only played Gullan because he panicked.

Ross always plays the same formation/tactics.

The players don't know what they're meant to be doing.

I don't like his boring voice (my favourite).

All of this stuff has been posted, a lot of it regularly and not just during the recent bad run.

I could go on but there are anti-Rossers who will find a way to criticise anything and everything - that's what gets very wearing and boring.

And before anyone starts, the majority of my posts are in response to that sort of stuff. It's nothing to do with being pro Hibs/Ross/Board, it's simply because I disagree.

[Peevemor]

Big game for Ross and the team today. Need to find an approach to get back on winning waysFingers crossed.

[The Modfather]

But some have been unreasonable though, apparently being incapable of giving JR or the team any credit at times.

If we play well it's only because the other team's playing badly.

If we have 60%+ of possession it's only because the other side wants us to. If the opposite happens it's because we're playing crap.

FFS Ross play Wood.

FFS send Wood to back to his club.

Play Gullan - what's the point of having him on the bench.

Ross only played Gullan because he panicked.

Ross always plays the same formation/tactics.

The players don't know what they're meant to be doing.

I don't like his boring voice (my favourite).

All of this stuff has been posted, a lot of it regularly and not just during the recent bad run.

I could go on but there are anti-Rossers who will find a way to criticise anything and everything - that's what gets very wearing and boring.

And before anyone starts, the majority of my posts are in response to that sort of stuff. It's nothing to do with being pro Hibs/Ross/Board, it's simply because I disagree.

At the risk of us covering old ground. This poll again shows those that want Ross out are a minority. Within that there’s a minority who are unreasonable and blinkered in wanting Ross Out. Those numbers are probably in the single digit poster count. Why not just ignore them or put them on ignore, deny them the attention they crave. There’s plenty of good and constructive debate around the job Ross is doing. Surely it’s easier to solely engage with those posters. Responding to the minority of hardcore Ross Out posters creates an echo chamber and they seem larger in volume than they actually are. The inevitable conclusion ends up petty bickering and threads closed. The good debate within that closed thread is then lost.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If people didn’t enjoy watching his teams, they didn’t enjoy watching his teams, I don’t know what you want people to say?

To some people, like you, finishing 3rd and winning games is all that matters, that’s absolutely fine, you’re perfectly entitled to like what you want.

Some other people would prefer to watch a more entertaining, possibly even a higher risk style of football, even if that means sacrificing some wins. That’s also fine, they’re also entitled to their opinion.

Everyone knows we finished 3rd last season, repeating that a million times isn’t going to make us suddenly enjoy this team.

What finishing 3rd did last season season was buy him time so when he inevitable went through a run like this he quite rightly wouldn’t get sacked. He’s got plenty credit in the bank because of that position last season.

It does mean though that as soon as results started to dip he was always likely to get a lot of criticism quickly from people who don’t like his style of football.

A lot of fair points Bingo.

I disagree with the “finishing 3rd and winning games is all that matters to some” - the ideal is great football and 3rd (if that’s seen as an achievement) but it’s so rare that I’d take 3rd place and reasonable football (which a lot of pundits say is exciting btw) as a starting point to build on.

It also kind of contradicts the “results driven business” chat we hear a lot about.

[Peevemor]

At the risk of us covering old ground. This poll again shows those that want Ross out are a minority. Within that there’s a minority who are unreasonable and blinkered in wanting Ross Out. Those numbers are probably in the single digit poster count. Why not just ignore them or put them on ignore, deny them the attention they crave. There’s plenty of good and constructive debate around the job Ross is doing. Surely it’s easier to solely engage with those posters. Responding to the minority of hardcore Ross Out posters creates an echo chamber and they seem larger in volume than they actually are. The inevitable conclusion ends up petty bickering and threads closed. The good debate within that closed thread is then lost.But if people ignore them the the board's content will be 90% inaccurate, gratuitous criticism which isn't a fair reflection of the reality.

You only need to look at this place the night or even day after a loss when many of the more balanced posters avoid the place.

[The Modfather]

But if people ignore them the the board's content will be 90% inaccurate, gratuitous criticism which isn't a fair reflection of the reality.

You only need to look at this place the night or even day after a loss when many of the more balanced posters avoid the place.

I think replying to each and every one of their posts makes the problem worse and creates an echo chamber.

The perfect counter, for all posters, would be to create a new thread with a balanced argument for those who actually do want to debate. Leave those that simply want to set fire to every thread or subject to do so without anyone biting. There’s lots of posters I simply don’t respond to as there’s no positive to a repeated exchange where they just want to shout the loudest rather than any desire to actually debate.

[PH91]

If people didn’t enjoy watching his teams, they didn’t enjoy watching his teams, I don’t know what you want people to say?

To some people, like you, finishing 3rd and winning games is all that matters, that’s absolutely fine, you’re perfectly entitled to like what you want.

Some other people would prefer to watch a more entertaining, possibly even a higher risk style of football, even if that means sacrificing some wins. That’s also fine, they’re also entitled to their opinion.

Everyone knows we finished 3rd last season, repeating that a million times isn’t going to make us suddenly enjoy this team.

What finishing 3rd did last season season was buy him time so when he inevitable went through a run like this he quite rightly wouldn’t get sacked. He’s got plenty credit in the bank because of that position last season.

It does mean though that as soon as results started to dip he was always likely to get a lot of criticism quickly from people who don’t like his style of football.

These people seem to be going on the basis that the style of football this season is as per last.

There is no arguing that last season was a pragmatic style and not particulalrly easy on the eye. This season, though, we have changed formation and replaced our midfield hammer thrower with a ball player. Whilst it isn't a high press, all action style, it certainly is more expansive. We had a 3-2, a 3-0, two 2-0, two 2-2 and a 3-1 in our first 9 games. I can't tell people how to feel about it but it was hardly turgid stuff imo.

We have had our first run of bad results this season and some seem to immediately return to last seasons default position of the football being boring without any recognition of the changes we have seen.

With Hibs there is a balance between playing attacking football and getting results which is of course difficult to get right. But to sack the manager whilst he is clearly still working on trying to achieve that balance would be a step backwards, especially when we have picked up the most points out of everyone in the league bar the old firm during his tenure. I would add the caveat that losing today and against livi should rightly see questions being asked, however, im confident that we won't.

[MWHIBBIES]

Out of interest what’s your take on Solskjaer and how he splits the Man U support? He’s made numerous semi finals and finals, finished second last season and has the third best win % in Man United history. Is it unreasonable of those that want him sacked and have done for a long time? Or is there a debate to be had where on paper it’s difficult to make a case to sack him but in reality there’s a very real debate about how limited a manager he is at the top level?

His squad cosy over 800 million, that's the difference. He is desperately out of his depth. He is miles behind Pep and klopp as a manager

[superfurryhibby]

I think replying to each and every one of their posts makes the problem worse and creates an echo chamber.

The perfect counter, for all posters, would be to create a new thread with a balanced argument for those who actually do want to debate. Leave those that simply want to set fire to every thread or subject to do so without anyone biting. There’s lots of posters I simply don’t respond to as there’s no positive to a repeated exchange where they just want to shout the loudest rather than any desire to actually debate.

Good points about the echo chamber effect of responding to every post. Sometimes it's better to make your point and let the discussion carry on, whether you're ignored or not.

[Andy74]

His squad cosy over 800 million, that's the difference. He is desperately out of his depth. He is miles behind Pep and klopp as a manager

Pep and Klopp also had spells of form and some one off results that would have resulted in the sack from some on here too.

[Peevemor]

Good points about the echo chamber effect of responding to every post. Sometimes it's better to make your point and let the discussion carry on, whether you're ignored or not.Is an echo chamber not when everyone is agreeing/saying the same thing?

[Nicho87]

I think when you are deemed not allowed to have an opinion that’s the issue I have

👍🏻

[superfurryhibby]

Is an echo chamber not when everyone is agreeing/saying the same thing?

No, it's when someone repeats the same thing on every post they make during a discussion. Usually in a patronising, all knowing manner that adds nothing new to the debate :not worth

[MWHIBBIES]

Pep and Klopp also had spells of form and some one off results that would have resulted in the sack from some on here too.

Both of them had bad spells because of awful injuries, mainly in defence.

They also both had back to back 95+ point seasons, Klopp won the CL and league, Pep the first ever domestic treble. There is no comparison really.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No, it's when someone repeats the same thing on every post they make during a discussion. Usually in a patronising, all knowing manner that adds nothing new to the debate :not worth

Peevemor is correct in his definition.

[Peevemor]

No, it's when someone repeats the same thing on every post they make during a discussion. Usually in a patronising, all knowing manner that adds nothing new to the debate :not worthCertainly not my understanding.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No, it's when someone repeats the same thing on every post they make during a discussion. Usually in a patronising, all knowing manner that adds nothing new to the debate :not worth

Peevemor is correct in his definition..

[Peevemor]

Peevemor is correct in his definition..And "patronising" doesn't necessarily come into it either. I think that was chucked in for good measure. [emoji1787]

[HNA12]

Can we stick to the point instead of seeing yet another thread derailed.

[The Modfather]

I think replying to each and every one of their posts makes the problem worse and creates an echo chamber.

The perfect counter, for all posters, would be to create a new thread with a balanced argument for those who actually do want to debate. Leave those that simply want to set fire to every thread or subject to do so without anyone biting. There’s lots of posters I simply don’t respond to as there’s no positive to a repeated exchange where they just want to shout the loudest rather than any desire to actually debate.


Good points about the echo chamber effect of responding to every post. Sometimes it's better to make your point and let the discussion carry on, whether you're ignored or not.


Is an echo chamber not when everyone is agreeing/saying the same thing?


Peevemor is correct in his definition.


Peevemor is correct in his definition..

I’m glad that debating the definition of echo chamber is what you decided to take from my post rather discuss any of the actual points.

[HNA12]

Final request, please stick to the topic or the thread will be closed.

[Andy74]

Both of them had bad spells because of awful injuries, mainly in defence.

They also both had back to back 95+ point seasons, Klopp won the CL and league, Pep the first ever domestic treble. There is no comparison really.

Liverpool probably have more Champions Leagues recently than we’ve had 3rd place finishes. All relative and and there is comparison to how you react to form.

[jeffers]

But some have been unreasonable though, apparently being incapable of giving JR or the team any credit at times.

If we play well it's only because the other team's playing badly.

If we have 60%+ of possession it's only because the other side wants us to. If the opposite happens it's because we're playing crap.

FFS Ross play Wood.

FFS send Wood to back to his club.

Play Gullan - what's the point of having him on the bench.

Ross only played Gullan because he panicked.

Ross always plays the same formation/tactics.

The players don't know what they're meant to be doing.

I don't like his boring voice (my favourite).

All of this stuff has been posted, a lot of it regularly and not just during the recent bad run.

I could go on but there are anti-Rossers who will find a way to criticise anything and everything - that's what gets very wearing and boring.

And before anyone starts, the majority of my posts are in response to that sort of stuff. It's nothing to do with being pro Hibs/Ross/Board, it's simply because I disagree.

My point was people are being referred to as unreasonable because they want him gone just because he’s lost the past four games. It keeps being brought up. That imo would be unreasonable, however I don’t recall any posters saying that, those with doubts or who actually want him gone have reached that decision based on other concerns. Whether you agree with those other concerns or not is a different discussion.

[Since452]

Another weekend without a win. That's it he has to go now.

[blackpoolhibs]

Another weekend without a win. That's it he has to go now.
Or a stay of execution?

[Keith_M]

Another weekend without a win. That's it he has to go now.


Or a stay of execution?


I'm taking it as a positive. We managed to go the weekend without getting beat.

This is the start of our come back, I'm tellin ya!

[bingo70]

Another weekend without a win. That's it he has to go now.

Hearts have scored.

Ross out.

[Coco Bryce]

Hearts have scored.

Ross out.

I'm watching it. Both teams have been honking.

[jacomo]

These people seem to be going on the basis that the style of football this season is as per last.

There is no arguing that last season was a pragmatic style and not particulalrly easy on the eye. This season, though, we have changed formation and replaced our midfield hammer thrower with a ball player. Whilst it isn't a high press, all action style, it certainly is more expansive. We had a 3-2, a 3-0, two 2-0, two 2-2 and a 3-1 in our first 9 games. I can't tell people how to feel about it but it was hardly turgid stuff imo.

We have had our first run of bad results this season and some seem to immediately return to last seasons default position of the football being boring without any recognition of the changes we have seen.

With Hibs there is a balance between playing attacking football and getting results which is of course difficult to get right. But to sack the manager whilst he is clearly still working on trying to achieve that balance would be a step backwards, especially when we have picked up the most points out of everyone in the league bar the old firm during his tenure. I would add the caveat that losing today and against livi should rightly see questions being asked, however, im confident that we won't.


Spot on.

There were tentative signs at the start of this season that we were evolving into an easier on the eye brand of football.

That does seem to have been completely forgotten.

[Moulin Yarns]

Another weekend without a win. That's it he has to go now.


I'm taking it as a positive. We managed to go the weekend without getting beat.

This is the start of our come back, I'm tellin ya!

Hibs.net in a nutshell :greengrin

Glass half full - No defeat is a positive

Glass half empty - Another weekend without a win

Don'tcha love being a Hibee :wink:

[Jim44]

Hibs.net in a nutshell :greengrin

Glass half full - No defeat is a positive

Glass half empty - Another weekend without a win

Don'tcha love being a Hibee :wink:

Despite the manager-sacking crisis some say we are in, we are hanging in there in the top five with a game in hand, decent players hopefully coming in before and after Christmas. It’s not quite the doom and gloom scenario some would have you believe. It’s certainly not boring being a Hibee. :flag:

[bingo70]

Despite the manager-sacking crisis some say we are in, we are hanging in there in the top five with a game in hand, decent players hopefully coming in before and after Christmas. It’s not quite the doom and gloom scenario some would have you believe. It’s certainly not boring being a Hibee. :flag:

I agree with that……. Except the last sentence which is where the problem with Ross lies 😉

[1875Sean]

Win the game in hand and we are 3 points behind the might hearts and 3rd place …. Not all bad

[Jim44]

I agree with that……. Except the last sentence which is where the problem with Ross lies 😉

One man’s boredom is another man’s reassurance. :greengrin

[bingo70]

Win the game in hand and we are 3 points behind the might hearts and 3rd place …. Not all bad

As someone who’s been critical of Ross but not called for him to be sacked I do think that’s quite mad.

I really think we’ve been so ***** the last season or so, I don’t understand how we’ve managed to finish 3rd last season and still be in touching distance this season.

Clearly we shouldn’t be sacking someone in this position but I really just don’t think we’re very good!

[Jim44]

As someone who’s been critical of Ross but not called for him to be sacked I do think that’s quite mad.

I really think we’ve been so ***** the last season or so, I don’t understand how we’ve managed to finish 3rd last season and still be in touching distance this season.

Clearly we shouldn’t be sacking someone in this position but I really just don’t think we’re very good!


...... by the same token, I don’t think we are very bad, well, at least not as bad as some on here would have you believe.

[Silky]

Hearts have scored.

Ross out.




You know what, I actually think our bad run at the moment is being magnified by the run Hearts have been on. If we were above them in the league and they weren't playing as well, I'm honestly not so sure we would be seeing anywhere near the hysteria we are.

[tmb1875]

**** hearts what should it matter what any other team does. Some folk are obsessed with they ****bos. Concentrate on ourselves and what we need to do to win games.


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[B.H.F.C]

**** hearts what should it matter what any other team does. Some folk are obsessed with they ****bos. Concentrate on ourselves and what we need to do to win games.


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It does matter what other teams do. We need them to drop points to catch them.

I also want Hearts to lose every game they play just because they’re Hearts.

[truehibernian]

It does matter what other teams do. We need them to drop points to catch them.

I also want Hearts to lose every game they play just because they’re Hearts.

Exactly - beat what we are faced with, worry about nothing and no one else.

Jack won’t push us to that next level in my opinion. The football is ‘safe’ and conservative - he’s failed in all the big games, can’t seem to get the side to be ruthless when it matters. Of course others have perhaps been in that same category (managers), but at least we had a go and looked a very decent side. This side is awful - simple as that. Too much sentiment at the club, too many who have been there too long and need moved on. It’s sport, cut throat but necessary.

[tmb1875]

They get far too much a mention on here.


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[Danderhall Hibs]

They get far too much a mention on here.


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They get too many mentions when they’re winning - for balance we need to mention when they’re on a poor run as well (3 points from the last 12).

[007]

Exactly - beat what we are faced with, worry about nothing and no one else.

Jack won’t push us to that next level in my opinion. The football is ‘safe’ and conservative - he’s failed in all the big games, can’t seem to get the side to be ruthless when it matters. Of course others have perhaps been in that same category (managers), but at least we had a go and looked a very decent side. This side is awful - simple as that. Too much sentiment at the club, too many who have been there too long and need moved on. It’s sport, cut throat but necessary.

Has he failed in all the big games? He's beaten Hearts at Tynecastle and Aberdeen 3 times. Do those ones not count?

[Lancs Harp]

Has he failed in all the big games? He's beaten Hearts at Tynecastle and Aberdeen 3 times. Do those ones not count?

Well he's failed in too many big games for my liking. Not saying I want him out but not happy where we are or the football we play. Are you?

[tmb1875]

They get too many mentions when they’re winning - for balance we need to mention when they’re on a poor run as well (3 points from the last 12).

Who gives a ****? So is probs half the teams in the league


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[Danderhall Hibs]

Who gives a ****? So is probs half the teams in the league


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Lots of folk getting all het up recently about Hibs and them being unbeaten etc adds to the stress. Enjoy it.

[Since452]

No other Hibs manager has achieved 3rd place, a final and a semi final in a season in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has spent as many weeks consecutively in the top 4 in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has had as good an away record in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has taken us from relegation candidates to Europe in less than 2 years in my lifetime. Mowbrays team, the Tornadoes, the Famous Five were perennial big game bottlers no matter how you dress it up. They all lost big games they shouldn't have or in the fashion they did. Lennon, Stubbs, McLeish etc all had runs far worse or more embarrassing than this little bad patch we're on. It isn't new for our football club. **** me, I grew up watching Miller and Duffy. Ross out? Do me a favour.

[B.H.F.C]

No other Hibs manager has achieved 3rd place, a final and a semi final in a season in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has spent as many weeks consecutively in the top 4 in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has had as good an away record in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has taken us from relegation candidates to Europe in less than 2 years in my lifetime. Mowbrays team, the Tornadoes, the Famous Five were perennial big game bottlers no matter how you dress it up. They all lost big games they shouldn't have or in the fashion they did. Lennon, Stubbs, McLeish etc all had runs far worse or more embarrassing than this little bad patch we're on. It isn't new for our football club. **** me, I grew up watching Miller and Duffy. Ross out? Do me a favour.

Beers going down well tonight? Or are you Jack Ross?

Or maybe both?

[truehibernian]

Has he failed in all the big games? He's beaten Hearts at Tynecastle and Aberdeen 3 times. Do those ones not count?

No, they don’t - he’s liost semi finals, a final, been thumped by Hearts and never beaten the Old Firm. They are the big games, and of those I mentioned many were winnable and could have brought silverware.

I like him, just don’t see him developing a really creative attacking team.. Way too conservative and his selections recently, injuries permitting, are not only baffling but down right wrong. It’s team bingo. When that happens, you worry.

[Stuart93]

No other Hibs manager has achieved 3rd place, a final and a semi final in a season in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has spent as many weeks consecutively in the top 4 in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has had as good an away record in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has taken us from relegation candidates to Europe in less than 2 years in my lifetime. Mowbrays team, the Tornadoes, the Famous Five were perennial big game bottlers no matter how you dress it up. They all lost big games they shouldn't have or in the fashion they did. Lennon, Stubbs, McLeish etc all had runs far worse or more embarrassing than this little bad patch we're on. It isn't new for our football club. **** me, I grew up watching Miller and Duffy. Ross out? Do me a favour.

Jeez. This is all because people have a different opinion from you. Nuts.

[1875Sean]

As someone who’s been critical of Ross but not called for him to be sacked I do think that’s quite mad.

I really think we’ve been so ***** the last season or so, I don’t understand how we’ve managed to finish 3rd last season and still be in touching distance this season.

Clearly we shouldn’t be sacking someone in this position but I really just don’t think we’re very good!

It is a bit mental but up until the rangers game most people were happy, even in the defeat against rangers we were not that bad, fair enough it’s been terrible since then but it’s not been sh*te for the full season

[SMAXXA]

Beers going down well tonight? Or are you Jack Ross?

Or maybe both?

Or is be maybe right and has a valid point?

[B.H.F.C]

Or is be maybe right and has a valid point?

He’s not making a point, he’s having a rant.

And won’t engage with anyone on the ‘other side’ of the debate.

Saying we were relegation candidates when he took over discredits it straight away IMO.

[SMAXXA]

No, they don’t - he’s liost semi finals, a final, been thumped by Hearts and never beaten the Old Firm. They are the big games, and of those I mentioned many were winnable and could have brought silverware.

I like him, just don’t see him developing a really creative attacking team.. Way too conservative and his selections recently, injuries permitting, are not only baffling but down right wrong. It’s team bingo. When that happens, you worry.

Ehh yes they do!!! Without those so called wee game wins these victories over Aberdeen who were our biggest rivals last season secured us 3rd and Europe. We were the better side against hearts in the semi and were a penalty away from winning the game, it happens. Team bingo? He’s had realistically about a dozen outfield players with regular games to pick from due to injuries to key players.

I’ve seen so much recently people just picking selective examples to fit their narrative of why he should go or stay for that matter but I’d tend to verge on the latter to say he’s done more good than bad and has the right to be backed after losing 4 games 3 of which against the top 3 in Scotland consistently for the last number of years who have stronger squads available to them just now.

Look at Aberdeen for example. Terrible run manager under pressure despite spending money on players with big wages. In a week they have beat Hibs and hearts and should have beat rangers and are right back in the mix of things. Hearts haven’t won a game in 4 games either now but have 3 points to show from 12 we have 0. Our run of results will be a blip i genuinely believe that and when we have players back fit we will kick on again, with Jack Ross in charge. May be too soon for the semi final but regardless of between now and end of December purely because of him being shafted in the transfer window and his credit in the bank to date last 4 games aside, I believe he deserves January transfer window, back him and see what happens between then and end of the season.

[SMAXXA]

He’s not making a point, he’s having a rant.

And won’t engage with anyone on the ‘other side’ of the debate.

Saying we were relegation candidates when he took over discredits it straight away IMO.

Why that’s a very accurate assessment as that’s exactly what we were at the time?

[Fergus52]

He’s not making a point, he’s having a rant.

And won’t engage with anyone on the ‘other side’ of the debate.

Saying we were relegation candidates when he took over discredits it straight away IMO.

Cause saying he's on the bevvy and calling him jack Ross is engaging with his points right enough?

[SMAXXA]

Cause saying he's on the bevvy and calling him jack Ross is engaging with his points right enough?

😂😂😂👏

[B.H.F.C]

Why that’s a very accurate assessment as that’s exactly what we were at the time?

No we weren’t. Only the top four, at the time, had lost more games. Draws had killed us a bit, we weren’t good, but we weren’t relegation material.

And he inherited a team that had been in a semi final a couple of weeks before, which is a great achievement apparently, so they couldn’t have been that bad.

What was accurate about it?

[SMAXXA]

No we weren’t. Only the top four, at the time, had lost more games. Draws had killed us a bit, we weren’t good, but we weren’t relegation material.

And he inherited a team that had been in a semi final a couple of weeks before, which is a great achievement apparently, so they couldn’t have been that bad.

What was accurate about it?

Where were we in the league when he took over and where were we heading with Hecky?

[tmb1875]

Lots of folk getting all het up recently about Hibs and them being unbeaten etc adds to the stress. Enjoy it.

What have I to enjoy mate? Folk pissing there pants coz hearts are no absolutely dug***** this year. So what. It matters what we do not what others do.


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[Kato]

What have I to enjoy mate? Folk pissing there pants coz hearts are no absolutely dug***** this year. So what. It matters what we do not what others do.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEnjoy football fandom much?

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[Danderhall Hibs]

What have I to enjoy mate? Folk pissing there pants coz hearts are no absolutely dug***** this year. So what. It matters what we do not what others do.


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Folk feel bad about Hibs cos they think Hearts are flying. They’re not. We can all calm down a wee bit.

[B.H.F.C]

Where were we in the league when he took over and where were we heading with Hecky?

Closer to top six than relegation. Eighth to be precise, finished seventh. So he did improve us which I don’t dispute. What I do dispute is that we were relegation candidates. The 4-1 at St Johnstone the week before Ross came in turned us round.

And we’d been in a semi final a week earlier under Hecky, which I’m told is an achievement, so we couldn’t have been that bad.

[Peevemor]

No other Hibs manager has achieved 3rd place, a final and a semi final in a season in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has spent as many weeks consecutively in the top 4 in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has had as good an away record in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has taken us from relegation candidates to Europe in less than 2 years in my lifetime. Mowbrays team, the Tornadoes, the Famous Five were perennial big game bottlers no matter how you dress it up. They all lost big games they shouldn't have or in the fashion they did. Lennon, Stubbs, McLeish etc all had runs far worse or more embarrassing than this little bad patch we're on. It isn't new for our football club. **** me, I grew up watching Miller and Duffy. Ross out? Do me a favour.

Good post.

It may well be a bit of a rant but that doesn't make the content any less valid.

Maybe saying we were relegation candidates is a slight exaggeration, but under Hecky we weren't winning matches and who knows how that would have panned out. We certainly weren't relegation candidates when Terry Butcher was appointed and we all know what happened there.

[007]

No, they don’t - he’s liost semi finals, a final, been thumped by Hearts and never beaten the Old Firm. They are the big games, and of those I mentioned many were winnable and could have brought silverware.

I like him, just don’t see him developing a really creative attacking team.. Way too conservative and his selections recently, injuries permitting, are not only baffling but down right wrong. It’s team bingo. When that happens, you worry.

I don't have an issue with what you've said in your 2nd paragraph or even if you said you don't like him but to count the 3-1 loss to Hearts at ER and 2 cup semi defeats as big games but not the 2-0 win at Tynecastle and cup semi win makes you IMO a hypocrite.

If you are excluding a win against Hearts at Tynecastle and a cup semi win then, if your argument was reasonable, you'd exclude all Hearts games and cup semis which leaves a cup final loss and losses to the 2 teams who have massive budgets compared to ours. By my calculations it is 8 losses and 4 draws and 5 of the losses were by 1 goal, the most recent of which I believe we were cheated out of a better result by Lundstram with his tackle on Doig not receiving the same treatment as Porteous.

[JohnM1875]

No other Hibs manager has achieved 3rd place, a final and a semi final in a season in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has spent as many weeks consecutively in the top 4 in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has had as good an away record in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has taken us from relegation candidates to Europe in less than 2 years in my lifetime. Mowbrays team, the Tornadoes, the Famous Five were perennial big game bottlers no matter how you dress it up. They all lost big games they shouldn't have or in the fashion they did. Lennon, Stubbs, McLeish etc all had runs far worse or more embarrassing than this little bad patch we're on. It isn't new for our football club. **** me, I grew up watching Miller and Duffy. Ross out? Do me a favour.

A post full of brilliant stats for Ross. And they genuinely are impressive. I think what a lot of folk aren't getting is that the lack of connection or passion in supporting Ross isn't to do with that though.

A lot of Hibs fans I know/grew up with, rightly or wrongly see us as an attractive footballing team. That just isn't on offer under Ross. Well, last season anyway. We've had 45 minute spells in most games this season where we've been easier on the eye.

As the poll on another thread showed most fans don't want Ross out. But there's also a number who wouldn't bat an eyelid if he were to leave. I think all your stats show is the only real reason for that is the style of football on show just now.

[Libby Hibby]

Good post.

It may well be a bit of a rant but that doesn't make the content any less valid.

Maybe saying we were relegation candidates is a slight exaggeration, but under Hecky we weren't winning matches and who knows how that would have panned out. We certainly weren't relegation candidates when Terry Butcher was appointed and we all know what happened there.

We’re we not bottom when Hecky got the boot?

[Yorkshire HFC]

A post full of brilliant stats for Ross. And they genuinely are impressive. I think what a lot of folk aren't getting is that the lack of connection or passion in supporting Ross isn't to do with that though.

A lot of Hibs fans I know/grew up with, rightly or wrongly see us as an attractive footballing team. That just isn't on offer under Ross. Well, last season anyway. We've had 45 minute spells in most games this season where we've been easier on the eye.

As the poll on another thread showed most fans don't want Ross out. But there's also a number who wouldn't bat an eyelid if he were to leave. I think all your stats show is the only real reason for that is the style of football on show just now.

When did these fans grow up? It certainly wasn't in the same era as I did - the later Turnbull years, Ormond, Auld, Stanton, Blackley etc. etc. I don't remember much attractive football then - but that's when I started going. Hibs will always be my team, but I'm under no illusions that they are a great football team - that's not why I follow them. Maybe that's why I tend to give them a bit of slack and stick with managers and players - because I know that it could be 100 times worse than it is now. Jack Ross is a good manager for Hibs - let him do his job. Hopefully he will keep getting us to semi finals and finals, and if he does, we'll win one of them.

These people that are criticizing him - they do know that we're in another semi final in a few weeks time? This is a good time to be a Hibs fan - a few losses doesn't change that.

[Alex Trager]

It’s quite refreshing that the biggest critiques of the manager under pressure is his style and connectedness with the fans.

That says a lot about his record

[superfurryhibby]

It’s quite refreshing that the biggest critiques of the manager under pressure is his style and connectedness with the fans.

That says a lot about his record

For balance you should add his teams utterly dire performances in a cup final and two semi finals, all of which were very winnable.

[allmodcons]

No other Hibs manager has achieved 3rd place, a final and a semi final in a season in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has spent as many weeks consecutively in the top 4 in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has had as good an away record in my lifetime. No other Hibs manager has taken us from relegation candidates to Europe in less than 2 years in my lifetime. Mowbrays team, the Tornadoes, the Famous Five were perennial big game bottlers no matter how you dress it up. They all lost big games they shouldn't have or in the fashion they did. Lennon, Stubbs, McLeish etc all had runs far worse or more embarrassing than this little bad patch we're on. It isn't new for our football club. **** me, I grew up watching Miller and Duffy. Ross out? Do me a favour.


Beers going down well tonight? Or are you Jack Ross?

Or maybe both?


Jeez. This is all because people have a different opinion from you. Nuts.

A good post S452.

Affirmed by the responses of those who disagree with with you. One claiming you're drunk and the other that your nuts. Quality debating :rolleyes:

[B.H.F.C]

A good post S452.

Affirmed by the responses of those who disagree with with you. One claiming you're drunk and the other that your nuts. Quality debating :rolleyes:

Would happily debate any of the points raised, as I have with others, in response to it but know that’s unlikely to happen.

There are elements of it you can’t argue with, the fact we finished third, good record away from home etc. There are also elements of it that aren’t true and lack context IMO.

[Key West]

Last season potentially Jack Ross could have bagged 2 Scottish Cups and a League Cup, there were pivotal moments in all these games. Nisbet missed a penalty and Magennis missed a sitter in the first half against Hearts, Murphy missed a sitter against St Johnstone in the semi final when we were well on top and I think Irvine hit the woodwork, Irvine missed a reasonable chance against St Johnstone in the final, we cannot apportion all of the blame on the manager, I'm in the camp that prefers entertaining football to stats but I understand given the players he has to work with that the manager would be cautious, with hindsight the decision to go with a streamlined squad may have been a poor one.

[allmodcons]

Would happily debate any of the points raised, as I have with others, in response to it but know that’s unlikely to happen.

There are elements of it you can’t argue with, the fact we finished third, good record away from home etc. There are also elements of it that aren’t true and lack context IMO.

So elaborate, asking the poster if he is drunk or Jack Ross, doesn't do much for your argument.

[superfurryhibby]

Last season potentially Jack Ross could have bagged 2 Scottish Cups and a League Cup, there were pivotal moments in all these games. Nisbet missed a penalty and Magennis missed a sitter in the first half against Hearts, Murphy missed a sitter against St Johnstone in the semi final when we were well on top and I think Irvine hit the woodwork, Irvine missed a reasonable chance against St Johnstone in the final, we cannot apportion all of the blame on the manager, I'm in the camp that prefers entertaining football to stats but I understand given the players he has to work with that the manager would be cautious, with hindsight the decision to go with a streamlined squad may have been a poor one.

The players Ross has to work with ? All the ones mentioned are players that Ross signed?

I would guess that Ross has had more money to sign players than any Hibs manager since McLeish? It hasn’t been spent particularly well,

[Peevemor]

The players Ross has to work with ? All the ones mentioned are players that Ross signed?

I would guess that Ross has had more money to sign players than any Hibs manager since McLeish? It hasn’t been spent particularly well,I don't know where you're getting that, especially given that he has the smallest squad I can remember (since Alex Miller maybe?).

[SMAXXA]

The players Ross has to work with ? All the ones mentioned are players that Ross signed?

I would guess that Ross has had more money to sign players than any Hibs manager since McLeish? It hasn’t been spent particularly well,

Not sure about that hecky had a good amount available and JR had to pick up his signings.

[B.H.F.C]

So elaborate, asking the poster if he is drunk or Jack Ross, doesn't do much for your argument.

Read down the thread and you’ll see I have, particularly the bit about us being relegation candidates when he came in.

The turnaround is exaggerated. Ross inherited a team 8th in the league and finished 3rd the following season. Mowbray also inherited a team that had finished 8th and finished 3rd in his first season. Even Yogi inherited a team who had scraped in to the top six (ending up with less points than the teams below them) and qualified for Europe in his first season. Lennon took over a team in the Championship and finished in a European place with a record points total first season back up. I think they all managed that with teams better to watch so I don’t think Ross did something out of the ordinary league wise as suggested.

I just totally disagree with the point that people are wanting Ross out on the basis of a bad patch. They’re not, the criticism has been consistent. I’m not even totally decided, I think there are some valid reasons to keep him based of what he’s done so far. But I’m not sure he improves on what he’s done to date.

[Fergus52]

The players Ross has to work with ? All the ones mentioned are players that Ross signed?

I would guess that Ross has had more money to sign players than any Hibs manager since McLeish? It hasn’t been spent particularly well,

Most of our signings have been fine since he came in imo?

The big obvious issue was not getting better quality cover than wood or Scott signed last summer.

But even back in July Ross seemed confident we'd be bringing in a centre back and a striker to challenge for the first team. Something clearly went wrong with recruitment this year and we'll probably never know the extent to which it may have been Ross or mathie's fault.

[jacomo]

He’s not making a point, he’s having a rant.

And won’t engage with anyone on the ‘other side’ of the debate.

Saying we were relegation candidates when he took over discredits it straight away IMO.


Cmon. You want people to engage with your argument, but you are so dismissive of those who disagree with you?!

Can’t have it both ways.

[superfurryhibby]

I don't know where you're getting that, especially given that he has the smallest squad I can remember (since Alex Miller maybe?).

The post I replied to suggested Ross having to be cautious due to the players he has to work with and referred to the semi finals and cup final. I pointed out that Ross signed the guys mentioned.

Why is the current squad so short of players? Who takes responsibility for that?

My second point was intended to highlight that we fans regularly assume there has been significant investment on the playing side of things since Gordon took over, as represented by fees paid for players, and new contracts.

[B.H.F.C]

Cmon. You want people to engage with your argument, but you are so dismissive of those who disagree with you?!

Can’t have it both ways.

I’ve not dismissed anyone. I actually said there are parts of what I described as a rant that you can’t argue with.

[Peevemor]

The post referred I replied to suggested Ross having to be cautious due to the players he has to work with and referred to the semi finals and cup final. I pointed out that Ross signed the guys mentioned.

Why is the current squad so short of players? Who takes responsibility for that?

My second point was intended to highlight that we fans regularly assume there has been significant investment on the playing side of things since Gordon took over, as represented by fees paid for players, and new contracts.

On the first point, we can only speculate why the squad is how it is. We can guess that it's one of the reasons behind Mathie's departure but, as has already been said, we'll probably never know.

Transfer fees were spent on Doidge & Vela (plus others?) while STF/RP were still pulling the purse strings. This was probably possible due to STF's debt forgiveness, HSL contributions and good ST sales.

Since Ron came in he's splashed the cash too, paying some transfer fees as well as renewing and improving contracts. I think nearly everyone expected another couple of decent (ie. not necessarily cheap) signings toward the end of the window. The consensus seems to be that this not happening wasn't down to Ron Gordon.

We shouldn't forget either that income will have been well down last season, the effect of which will be clearer when the next accounts are published.

[NC1875]

I don't know where you're getting that, especially given that he has the smallest squad I can remember (since Alex Miller maybe?).

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!

[SMAXXA]

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!

Funny how those who want rid of him fail to acknowledge the counter points and facts raised to Trot out the we are pish to watch etc which is nonsense as we have been good to watch this season last few games aside. That’s what 4 games out of probably 15+ games this season and the same pish to watch that battered teams at ER in Europe.

I don’t think anyone needs to blame Mathie the evidence is right in front of your eyes he paid for his and our failings in the window with his job nothing else, again not JR fault but he’s paying for it.

He wanted a smaller squad which is one thing, he also wanted more quality in which club failed to deliver and has had some bad injuries to key players that’s just bad luck.

[Peevemor]

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!

The small squad talk was for last season - the circumstances were exceptional.

As far as I'm aware we're meant to have returned the 1st pick/back-up/youngster model for each position (according to a Graeme Mathie this summer IIRC).

[Alex Trager]

For balance you should add his teams utterly dire performances in a cup final and two semi finals, all of which were very winnable.

Indeed.

The semi against hearts I seem to be a lot less bothered about than others - they scored a pen, we never.

The semi against St J a story of missed chances then a shocking second half. More bothered about that.

The final, total nothing performance. Extremely bothered about that.

The stubbs team turned in poor performances on these big stages, in which we were expected to win quite regularly actually. Especially against ‘weaker’ sides.
All blown away by the SC ofc.

Hopefully JR can give us an early xmas present

[B.H.F.C]

Funny how those who want rid of him fail to acknowledge the counter points and facts raised to Trot out the we are pish to watch etc which is nonsense as we have been good to watch this season last few games aside. That’s what 4 games out of probably 15+ games this season and the same pish to watch that battered teams at ER in Europe.

I don’t think anyone needs to blame Mathie the evidence is right in front of your eyes he paid for his and our failings in the window with his job nothing else, again not JR fault but he’s paying for it.

He wanted a smaller squad which is one thing, he also wanted more quality in which club failed to deliver and has had some bad injuries to key players that’s just bad luck.

And those who want to keep him also fail to acknowledge the counter points, don’t they? It’s hard to get any balance but the truth is definitely somewhere in the middle.

Whether folk think we’re poor to watch or not is entirely down to personal opinion so you can’t really call someone’s opinion of that nonsense. Rijeka, Motherwell and Ross County were good to watch IMO. Other than that, I don’t think it’s been particularly good to watch and I don’t think I’m the only one.

[Crunchie]

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!
I'm delighted to get to semi finals and finals, law of averages and all that. For years during my time supporting Hibs we were nowhere near semis or finals, this generation are pampered.

[Key West]

The players Ross has to work with ? All the ones mentioned are players that Ross signed?

I would guess that Ross has had more money to sign players than any Hibs manager since McLeish? It hasn’t been spent particularly well,

The players he has to work with collectively when injuries and suspensions kick in with a streamlined squad and fewer options.You only have to look at the other teams and their results to see that there is very little consistency with any of the teams, even Celtic with their millions struggled against Livingston at home, why are we expected to run all over teams regardless of who the manager is?

[J-C]

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!

I've mentioned it a couple of times on this thread but look at his Sunderland record, spending and what finally happened. The fans down there were delighted he's gone, a basket case club still in Div 1 but had the budget to bounce back immediately.

Ross is a steady manager out of the Levein way of thinking, remember he was there as a coach, pragmatic and mr safe. We seem to do reasonably well getting enough points to keep us happy but doing so in a boring as hell way, this is my main point with him, the standard of football on show. There have also been far too many total non shows where the team as a whole have been rank rotten and embarrassed themselves, I think we can take getting beat but not in the manner like we have on occasion and its happened all too often.

[Peevemor]

I've mentioned it a couple of times on this thread but look at his Sunderland record, spending and what finally happened. The fans down there were delighted he's gone, a basket case club still in Div 1 but had the budget to bounce back immediately.

Ross is a steady manager out of the Levein way of thinking, remember he was there as a coach, pragmatic and mr safe. We seem to do reasonably well getting enough points to keep us happy but doing so in a boring as hell way, this is my main point with him, the standard of football on show. There have also been far too many total non shows where the team as a whole have been rank rotten and embarrassed themselves, I think we can take getting beat but not in the manner like we have on occasion and its happened all too often.I stopped after "Levein way of thinking".

Utter tosh!

[jacomo]

I’ve not dismissed anyone. I actually said there are parts of what I described as a rant that you can’t argue with.


Ok, in my opinion we were in free fall under Hecky. He was the wrong appointment from the off and if we hadn’t sacked him we were certain relegation candidates.

Now, you don’t have to agree, but don’t tell me it’s unarguable.

[Smartie]

On the first point, we can only speculate why the squad is how it is. We can guess that it's one of the reasons behind Mathie's departure but, as has already been said, we'll probably never know.

Transfer fees were spent on Doidge & Vela (plus others?) while STF/RP were still pulling the purse strings. This was probably possible due to STF's debt forgiveness, HSL contributions and good ST sales.

Since Ron came in he's splashed the cash too, paying some transfer fees as well as renewing and improving contracts. I think nearly everyone expected another couple of decent (ie. not necessarily cheap) signings toward the end of the window. The consensus seems to be that this not happening wasn't down to Ron Gordon.

We shouldn't forget either that income will have been well down last season, the effect of which will be clearer when the next accounts are published.

I've started to wonder whether or not that might have more to do with where we find ourselves than we might think?

The covid season will have seen income take a pummelling. Ok, we'll have had stuff at our disposal to get our costs down and mitigate that a bit, but I'd expect that financially it will have had a big effect.

Our season ticket sales do seem to be down a fair bit, and the crowds have been lower this season than they have for a few years. This will also have a knock on effect. If we're a couple of thousand down, that will be what - 3/4 of a million to a million pounds probably? Not an insignificant sum of money when translated into player expenditure.

Ron may well have been cagey about releasing figures or putting out the begging bowl as it would surely have been greeted with a load of negativity and suggestions that he "pony up".

At the end of the day, we are run as a business with money coming in and going out. Our owner can choose to lend or give to supplement if he sees fit. But we've probably not saved a fortune with the players going out (although I'd expect Marciano and Mallan would have been on a few bob, Irvine as well probably). We've clearly been relying on a big bucks departure to finance arrivals of any quality and ultimately ran out of time over the summer when it became clear that that money wasn't going to arrive.

[jacomo]

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!


I’ve said before… if Wood and Scott were ready to come in and improve our team, no one would complain about a small squad.

Unfortunately, it looks like neither player is what we need right now.

[Smartie]

I've mentioned it a couple of times on this thread but look at his Sunderland record, spending and what finally happened. The fans down there were delighted he's gone, a basket case club still in Div 1 but had the budget to bounce back immediately.

Ross is a steady manager out of the Levein way of thinking, remember he was there as a coach, pragmatic and mr safe. We seem to do reasonably well getting enough points to keep us happy but doing so in a boring as hell way, this is my main point with him, the standard of football on show. There have also been far too many total non shows where the team as a whole have been rank rotten and embarrassed themselves, I think we can take getting beat but not in the manner like we have on occasion and its happened all too often.

The fans down there are still as split on him as we are. Some of them recognise how much they improved under him and acknowledge the fact that they've not been closer (further in fact) to going up since he left. A fair chunk wish he had never left.

Others loathe him for the reasons he struggles to win us all over here. Missed opportunities in the biggest games, dull football, ultimately failed in spite of reasonable backing etc etc...

[SMAXXA]

I've mentioned it a couple of times on this thread but look at his Sunderland record, spending and what finally happened. The fans down there were delighted he's gone, a basket case club still in Div 1 but had the budget to bounce back immediately.

Ross is a steady manager out of the Levein way of thinking, remember he was there as a coach, pragmatic and mr safe. We seem to do reasonably well getting enough points to keep us happy but doing so in a boring as hell way, this is my main point with him, the standard of football on show. There have also been far too many total non shows where the team as a whole have been rank rotten and embarrassed themselves, I think we can take getting beat but not in the manner like we have on occasion and its happened all too often.

That would be the same fans delighted he was gone that were wanting him back after he was replaced? And you need to rephrase that some fans were delighted some were not.

The rest well comparison to CL is just bizarre and miles away from the manager / coach he is, thankfully.

[J-C]

The fans down there are still as split on him as we are. Some of them recognise how much they improved under him and acknowledge the fact that they've not been closer (further in fact) to going up since he left. A fair chunk wish he had never left.

Others loathe him for the reasons he struggles to win us all over here. Missed opportunities in the biggest games, dull football, ultimately failed in spite of reasonable backing etc etc...

I think this was my point, he's a steady Eddie type manager without hitting the highs in the game, Alex Miller type that'll always split the fans. Boring football but gets points or attacking football, I think we all want a mixture.

[jacomo]

I've mentioned it a couple of times on this thread but look at his Sunderland record, spending and what finally happened. The fans down there were delighted he's gone, a basket case club still in Div 1 but had the budget to bounce back immediately.

Ross is a steady manager out of the Levein way of thinking, remember he was there as a coach, pragmatic and mr safe. We seem to do reasonably well getting enough points to keep us happy but doing so in a boring as hell way, this is my main point with him, the standard of football on show. There have also been far too many total non shows where the team as a whole have been rank rotten and embarrassed themselves, I think we can take getting beat but not in the manner like we have on occasion and its happened all too often.


I do take some of this on board. Jack is a pragmatic, cautious manager, no doubt about that.

However, it is also true that we started this season playing a more expansive, pleasing style. Scotty Allan was back in the team and we were scoring goals.

That’s now been derailed by injuries and poor form, but do we have any patience anymore?

I was always told that you build a team from the back. Make yourself hard to beat, match the work rate of the opposition, earn the right to play. Once you have that solid base, you can really build something.

Instead, first bad run and people want him sacked. Is that the way to build a team?

He also got Sunderland to the play offs. Maybe they sacked him too soon.

[J-C]

That would be the same fans delighted he was gone that were wanting him back after he was replaced? And you need to rephrase that some fans were delighted some were not.

The rest well comparison to CL is just bizarre and miles away from the manager / coach he is, thankfully.

Surely he'd be coaching the players to a system Levein wanted, I can see a few comparisons to that style where he plays a conservative style rather than attacking.

[superfurryhibby]

The players he has to work with collectively when injuries and suspensions kick in with a streamlined squad and fewer options.You only have to look at the other teams and their results to see that there is very little consistency with any of the teams, even Celtic with their millions struggled against Livingston at home, why are we expected to run all over teams regardless of who the manager is?

I've never mentioned Hibs running all over teams?

I have suggested that Ross has been given a decent budget at Hibs and that his signings have been a very mixed bag. Many fans feel that we haven't been as successful as they would have hoped, particularly given the perception that Gordon has invested heavily in transfer fees and wages.

This season has taken a significant downturn, but it's far from unsalvageable. I suppose it will all be a bit clearer by the end of November. Hibs have a decent run of league fixtures and a cup semi final, we'll see if Ross has the ability to organise the side properly and get the most from what he has available.

[Alex Trager]

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!

As far as I am aware, he took over St Mirren stranded at the bottom of the league and saved them on the last day of the season, ruining our title day at easter road.

They then went on to win the league at a canter the next again year. I think it’s fair to say he can motivate a team

[Peevemor]

Surely he'd be coaching the players to a system Levein wanted, I can see a few comparisons to that style where he plays a conservative style rather than attacking.What was it? 3rd (or 4th?) top scorers in the league last season?

[The Modfather]

I do take some of this on board. Jack is a pragmatic, cautious manager, no doubt about that.

However, it is also true that we started this season playing a more expansive, pleasing style. Scotty Allan was back in the team and we were scoring goals.

That’s now been derailed by injuries and poor form, but do we have any patience anymore?

I was always told that you build a team from the back. Make yourself hard to beat, match the work rate of the opposition, earn the right to play. Once you have that solid base, you can really build something.

Instead, first bad run and people want him sacked. Is that the way to build a team?

He also got Sunderland to the play offs. Maybe they sacked him too soon.

I think that’s part of the crux of it for me. I don’t know that I’ll ever particularly enjoy the kind of team Jack Ross seems to want. Last seasons was a successful league campaign but not one that I really enjoyed or look back on with much fondness. I think cautious, structured don’t lose first and foremost and then try to win the game in the second half is what Ross wants from a team. Nothing wrong with that and as last season, and Mcinness at Aberdeen showed, its successful in our league. It’s not something I enjoy though even with the success.

I’ve only been to one game this season, St Mirren. The first half was a non event, we were good for 15/20 mins second half and then went into our shell all out defence when we went ahead. I didn’t enjoy the game. I’ve a friend who was at Livingston & St Johnstone and he told a similar tale of getting the result but not playing particularly well. I should also add for balance that I watched the European games, Motherwell and Dundee Utd in the cup. The style was better in those games to varying degrees so there has been some improvement in style in some games, but still a lot of games where the style is reflected in the attendance IMO.

[superfurryhibby]

As far as I am aware, he took over St Mirren stranded at the bottom of the league and saved them on the last day of the season, ruining our title day at easter road.

They then went on to win the league at a canter the next again year. I think it’s fair to say he can motivate a team

As a counter point to that, he relegated Alloa, failed to take Sunderland up with a budget way in excess of anyone else's in that league and he lost a semi final to a team in the league below HIbs as well as losing a final and semi final against a side that finished with half our budget and who ended up 18 points below us in the league.

IN terms of motivating a team, that cup final was the opposite of what I would hope for from a manager able to inspire a side to success.

Finishing third was good, but lost it's sparkle due to the aforementioned cup defeats.

[Peevemor]

As a counter point to that, he relegated Alloa, failed to take Sunderland up with a budget way in excess of anyone else's in that league and he lost a semi final to a team in the league below HIbs as well as losing a final and semi final against a side that finished with half our budget and who ended up 18 points below us in the league.

IN terms of motivating a team, that cup final was the opposite of what I would hope for from a manager able to inspire a side to success.

Finishing third was good, but lost it's sparkle due to the aforementioned cup defeats.

To counter that he didn't take Alloa over until December and they were already anchored at the bottom of the league. Despite the relegation he had his contract renewed then lead Alloa to a record 10 wins in a row. He left them when they were 2nd in their league.

He unluckily lost a semi final to a side in the league below but with a bigger budget than us.

The St Johnstone defeats were hard to take.

[jeffers]

To counter that he didn't take Alloa over until December and they were already anchored at the bottom of the league. Despite the relegation he had his contract renewed then lead Alloa to a record 10 wins in a row. He left them when they were 2nd in their league.

He unluckily lost a semi final to a side in the league below but with a bigger budget than us.

The St Johnstone defeats were hard to take.

I disagree the defeat to Hearts was unlucky, they took their chances we didn’t. Budget or not there were few if any of their players I’d have swapped for ours. Add in the fact we should have been much sharper than them given we’d played more games before that match and against better opponents.

[superfurryhibby]

To counter that he didn't take Alloa over until December and they were already anchored at the bottom of the league. Despite the relegation he had his contract renewed then lead Alloa to a record 10 wins in a row. He left them when they were 2nd in their league.

He unluckily lost a semi final to a side in the league below but with a bigger budget than us.

The St Johnstone defeats were hard to take.

So Ross' biggest successes have been whilst managing sides at a lower level than Hibs?

[Peevemor]

So Ross' biggest successes have been whilst managing sides at a lower level than Hibs?Brilliant! This is the early part of his 2nd full season at Hibs. We could maybe give him a chance.

[Peevemor]

I disagree the defeat to Hearts was unlucky, they took their chances we didn’t. Budget or not there were few if any of their players I’d have swapped for ours. Add in the fact we should have been much sharper than them given we’d played more games before that match and against better opponents.Disagree if you want, I'm far from the only one who acknowledges that that match could have gone either way.

[Since452]

I disagree the defeat to Hearts was unlucky, they took their chances we didn’t. Budget or not there were few if any of their players I’d have swapped for ours. Add in the fact we should have been much sharper than them given we’d played more games before that match and against better opponents.

To be fair it's been a long time since I've seen a game played in those conditions. It was definitely a leveller. All Hearts Christmases came at once that day.

[Key West]

I've never mentioned Hibs running all over teams?

I have suggested that Ross has been given a decent budget at Hibs and that his signings have been a very mixed bag. Many fans feel that we haven't been as successful as they would have hoped, particularly given the perception that Gordon has invested heavily in transfer fees and wages.

This season has taken a significant downturn, but it's far from unsalvageable. I suppose it will all be a bit clearer by the end of November. Hibs have a decent run of league fixtures and a cup semi final, we'll see if Ross has the ability to organise the side properly and get the most from what he has available.

No you haven't suggested that Hibs should be running all over teams but others think we have a divine right to beat teams and perhaps think we are much better than we actually are, like our rivals we're half decent when we've got a best 11 on the pitch.

[Fergus52]

There have also been far too many total non shows where the team as a whole have been rank rotten and embarrassed themselves, I think we can take getting beat but not in the manner like we have on occasion and its happened all too often.

This has happened to Hibs under every manager I've ever watched us under.

Happened several times to McLeish, mowbray, Collins, yogi, Stubbs and Lennon. Where a side much weaker than us on paper completely turns us over.

[SMAXXA]

I disagree the defeat to Hearts was unlucky, they took their chances we didn’t. Budget or not there were few if any of their players I’d have swapped for ours. Add in the fact we should have been much sharper than them given we’d played more games before that match and against better opponents.

We were the better side and should have won the game but didn’t take chances including the penalty. Let’s not let the time lapsed since then pretend we weren’t the better side, tail of 2 penalties unfortunately.

[Fergus52]

I've never mentioned Hibs running all over teams?

I have suggested that Ross has been given a decent budget at Hibs and that his signings have been a very mixed bag. Many fans feel that we haven't been as successful as they would have hoped, particularly given the perception that Gordon has invested heavily in transfer fees and wages.

This season has taken a significant downturn, but it's far from unsalvageable. I suppose it will all be a bit clearer by the end of November. Hibs have a decent run of league fixtures and a cup semi final, we'll see if Ross has the ability to organise the side properly and get the most from what he has available.

Hes been given a decent budget but it's still only the 5th biggest and a long way behind hearts and Aberdeen's.

Posted the stats on another thread but our wage bill is much closer to Motherwell's than it is Aberdeen's.

5th place would be underwhelming for me but if your going on budgets it's our par when Aberdeen and hearts are both spending several millions pounds more than us solely on player wages each season.

[jeffers]

Disagree if you want, I'm far from the only one who acknowledges that that match could have gone either way.

What was unlucky about it which is the point you made ?

[jeffers]

We were the better side and should have won the game but didn’t take chances including the penalty. Let’s not let the time lapsed since then pretend we weren’t the better side, tail of 2 penalties unfortunately.

Where did I say we weren’t the better side ? Given the advantages we had, we should have been. I was disputing the fact we lost because we were unlucky. What was unlucky about it ?

[Weegreenman]

Our recruitment has been really poor. I think most supporters would acknowledge that.
This can happen. It happens at the best of clubs.

However it’s not been helped by injuries especially to big Doidge. He’s been a surprisingly huge miss for us.
Most probably don’t appreciate or didn’t appreciate how important the big fella is but they probably do now.

Add to this that quite a few of our players are under performing, Porto, McGinn, Gogic, Scott, Wright and one or two others then it’s a recipe for disaster.

We can talk about systems and formations all day long but we need to get the best out of whoever JR chooses as his first eleven.

JR needs to start by getting the boys working harder. More intensity, moving the ball quicker, more hunger. These are just basics!
Other teams such as Livi can do it. Why can’t we?
We’re not asking for much, we know you can’t just magic a win out of fresh air.
Just give us honesty and hard work. We’ll get behind you 100% if that happens.
Nobody really wants to see us getting back on that managerial merry go round yet again but if we carry on like we are then that’s were we’re heading.
We haven’t turned into a bad team overnight, this can be fixed.
It’s now upto the players to save us and JR a lot of unnecessary pain.

Let’s be having you!

[Peevemor]

Where did I say we weren’t the better side ? Given the advantages we had, we should have been. I was disputing the fact we lost because we were unlucky. What was unlucky about it ?The penalty miss apart from anything else. It was 3-4" away from being a perfect penalty. Had that went in then I think we'd have won.

[jeffers]

Our recruitment has been really poor. I think most supporters would acknowledge that.
This can happen. It happens at the best of clubs.

However it’s not been helped by injuries especially to big Doidge. He’s been a surprisingly huge miss for us.
Most probably don’t appreciate or didn’t appreciate how important the big fella is but they probably do now.

Add to this that quite a few of our players are under performing, Porto, McGinn, Gogic, Scott, Wright and one or two others then it’s a recipe for disaster.

We can talk about systems and formations all day long but we need to get the best out of whoever JR chooses as his first eleven.

JR needs to start by getting the boys working harder. More intensity, moving the ball quicker, more hunger. These are just basics!
Other teams such as Livi can do it. Why can’t we?
We’re not asking for much, we know you can’t just magic a win out of fresh air.
Just give us honesty and hard work. We’ll get behind you 100% if that happens.
Nobody really wants to see us getting back on that managerial merry go round yet again but if we carry on like we are then that’s were we’re heading.
We haven’t turned into a bad team overnight, this can be fixed.
It’s now upto the players to save us and JR a lot of unnecessary pain.

Let’s be having you!

Agree with a lot of that particularly the bit about not really wanting to get back on the managerial merry go round. I’d far rather Ross turned things round.

[jeffers]

The penalty miss apart from anything else. It was 3-4" away from being a perfect penalty. Had that went in then I think we'd have won.

Not for me. I fail to see anything unlucky about missing a penalty.

[Peevemor]

Not for me. I fail to see anything unlucky about missing a penalty.Fine. We'll agree to disagree.

[JimBHibees]

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!

Chronic patter that.

We are not terrible to watch and he clearly can motivate a team. Our league position last season was our best in 16 years. His record in cups is exceptional but yes we haven't won anything which isn't great. Can't imagine any Hibs fan who is happy to get to semi and finals to play may get beat but you need to be in it to win it. You clearly weren't a Hibs fan in the 80s when we went a decade or so without getting anywhere near Hampden.

[superfurryhibby]

Hes been given a decent budget but it's still only the 5th biggest and a long way behind hearts and Aberdeen's.

Posted the stats on another thread but our wage bill is much closer to Motherwell's than it is Aberdeen's.

5th place would be underwhelming for me but if your going on budgets it's our par when Aberdeen and hearts are both spending several millions pounds more than us solely on player wages each season.


I haven’t seen those stats. So, what you’re saying suggests that Ron Gordon’s investment in Hibs puts us in the same boat in terms of player outlay as we always were under STF?

[Peevemor]

I haven’t seen those stats. So, what you’re saying suggests that Ron Gordon’s investment in Hibs puts us in the same boat in terms of player outlay as we always were under STF?A bit better but still less than Aberdeen & Hearts - for the time being.

[superfurryhibby]

Chronic patter that.

We are not terrible to watch and he clearly can motivate a team. Our league position last season was our best in 16 years. His record in cups is exceptional but yes we haven't won anything which isn't great. Can't imagine any Hibs fan who is happy to get to semi and finals to play may get beat but you need to be in it to win it. You clearly weren't a Hibs fan in the 80s when we went a decade or so without getting anywhere near Hampden.

Ironic post given that we reached the League Cup final v Aberdeen, c 1986. We also had semi finals, albeit not necessarily played at Hampden.

[Peevemor]

Ironic post given that we reached the League Cup final v Aberdeen, c 1986. We also had semi finals, albeit not necessarily played at Hampden.Now you're going to say that our current cup form (ie. regularly reaching SFs) was the norm throughout the 80s & 90s?

This'll be good...

[Fergus52]

I haven’t seen those stats. So, what you’re saying suggests that Ron Gordon’s investment in Hibs puts us in the same boat in terms of player outlay as we always were under STF?

Couldn't get the attachment to work properly on my phone but can post later.

But basically for the 19/20 season our wage bill was 6.7 million, Aberdeen's 9.8, hearts 8.8 and Motherwell's 4.2.

[matty_f]

Ross himself says he wanted a small squad. It’s now coming back to bite him on the arse.

All the Jack Ross lovers now just blame that on Mathie though.

We’re terrible to watch. He clearly can’t motivate the team, it’s not just at Hibs. He’s been known for that elsewhere.

Funny there are so many fans happy to get to semi finals and finals only to get beat. At least we got there eh!

Ross definitely didn’t want a smaller squad this season.

[superfurryhibby]

Now you're going to say that our current cup form (ie. regularly reaching SFs) was the norm throughout the 80s & 90s?

This'll be good...


I just replied to a poster who was saying something that was factually incorrect. What does your post add to that discussion?

[Peevemor]

I just replied to a poster who was saying something that was factually incorrect. What does your post add to that discussion?Ah. So you can't then?

[Hibiza]

2 x semi finals, 1x final . ( We'll learn from this ).

[jacomo]

Chronic patter that.

We are not terrible to watch and he clearly can motivate a team. Our league position last season was our best in 16 years. His record in cups is exceptional but yes we haven't won anything which isn't great. Can't imagine any Hibs fan who is happy to get to semi and finals to play may get beat but you need to be in it to win it. You clearly weren't a Hibs fan in the 80s when we went a decade or so without getting anywhere near Hampden.


It really is. Need to elevate the level of discourse here.

[Since90+2]

The semi we lost against Hearts was a pure lottery because of the weather. I've never seen a match played in conditions like that. I remember all posters who were in Glasgow at the time saying there's absolutely no chance it will be played.

Yes, I know both teams had to play in it, but it made playing any kind of football impossible and the match a total lottery.

[HNA2]

We asked yesterday for the thread to stay on track before we have to close it. There is some good discussion going on between the bickering so we will try to let it get back on track again.

[JimBHibees]

Ironic post given that we reached the League Cup final v Aberdeen, c 1986. We also had semi finals, albeit not necessarily played at Hampden.

The point was comparing a period at the moment getting regularly in semi finals with that period which was a real dearth in reaching final stages of cups.

[Hibiza]

The semi we lost against Hearts was a pure lottery because of the weather. I've never seen a match played in conditions like that. I remember all posters who were in Glasgow at the time saying there's absolutely no chance it will be played.

Yes, I know both teams had to play in it, but it made playing any kind of football impossible and the match a total lottery.

We were out thought by Neilson .

[superfurryhibby]

Couldn't get the attachment to work properly on my phone but can post later.

But basically for the 19/20 season our wage bill was 6.7 million, Aberdeen's 9.8, hearts 8.8 and Motherwell's 4.2.

That’s quite a gap. Thanks for posting.

[B.H.F.C]

The semi we lost against Hearts was a pure lottery because of the weather. I've never seen a match played in conditions like that. I remember all posters who were in Glasgow at the time saying there's absolutely no chance it will be played.

Yes, I know both teams had to play in it, but it made playing any kind of football impossible and the match a total lottery.

Playing football wasn’t the problem in that game. We created plenty good chances, were the better team in the game, just weren't clinical enough.

[SMAXXA]

We were out thought by Neilson .

😂😂😂 don’t talk pish. Was part of his plan having Hibs be the better side is miss a penalty and then score a penalty to win it? I’ve read some ***** on here but this is right up there.

[chrisski33]

jack to stay!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Get in there! 🍺

[SHODAN]

Anyone care to return to this thread?

[Wilson]

Anyone care to return to this thread?

Thread out.

[Tambo]

Jack Ross in

[GRA]

Well that's two of the 'Jack Ross doesn't win big games' and 'we always bottle it at Hampden' myths smashed... for now 🤫

[madhatter]

Well that's two of the 'Jack Ross doesn't win big games' and 'we always bottle it at Hampden' myths smashed... for now 🤫

Enjoy the win without telling other fans to shush? Supposed to stick it to opposing fans, not your own...

[Greencore]

Jack Ross out the rangers janny/manager in.

[Moulin Yarns]

Enjoy the win without telling other fans to shush? Supposed to stick it to opposing fans, not your own...

Enjoy your sour grapes.

[we are hibs]

This forum is full of melts. Just in a cup final and wanting to dig out other hibs fans. Who ****ing cares? Get on the beers and enjoy it. These days dont come around often

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[madhatter]

Enjoy your sour grapes.

Eh?

[superfurryhibby]

Team selection and tactics spot on, really well done Jack Ross. Now let’s pick up some points and get the Hibees juggernaut back on track in the league.

[SteveHFC]

Ross must stay

[Ray Donovan]

When's he going to win a big game?

[Heisenberg]

****ing marvellous today. Nailed it.

[jacomo]

Well that's two of the 'Jack Ross doesn't win big games' and 'we always bottle it at Hampden' myths smashed... for now 🤫


That’s what big results do for you.

[Pretty Boy]

I really think we can go one night without this kind of petty squabbling.

Thread closed.