It's been coming. Jack Ross out.

[superfurryhibby]

I wanted Ross out after the cup final and nothing has really changed my mind about that. However, I've kept my peace and also defended him and the team plenty since, but It's looking increasingly like he's running out of ideas. Expectations are high at Hibs and I'd wouldn't be surprised if Gordon reacts. He's got a couple of games left to turn things around.

[Since452]

I wanted Ross out after the cup final and nothing has really changed my mind about that. However, I've kept my peace and also defended him and the team plenty since, but It's looking increasingly like he's running out of ideas. Expectations are high at Hibs and I'd wouldn't be surprised if Gordon reacts. He's got a couple of games left to turn things around.

Turn things around lol. We're only 5 points off top and in a semi final. I'd rather get the bad patch out the way now.

[Swedish hibee]

I just don't think we're as good as the media thinks we are. I can't say I'm his biggest fan, and a few of his signings have been poor. Why are we signing injury prone players? But I wouldn't sack him. Yet.

[Northernhibee]

Jim Goodwin, Lenny , Stubbsy, Callum Davidson. There’s 4 to chew on

Four awful suggestions there. If people complain about the football just now imagine what it would be like under Davidson.

Goodwin - last resort but would just take him.

Stubbs - legend but look at his record since.

Lennon - can only win things with the biggest budget, lucked out on an amazing midfield but is more of a dinosaur than Butcher. Turned us from Hibs to Lennon FC in the media.

[madhatter]

Jack Ross is probably the best and worst head coach to have through Covid times.

He steadied the ship and kept the players motivated enough to get a good league finish. Aberdeen were poor and no Hearts so you do have to temper that achievement slightly but achievement nevertheless.

However, by the same token during Covid times we've not particularly played scintillating football. Some fans think its been good enough in the main but others, including me, think it's almost entirely reliant on counter attacks led by Boyle. Some again think it's been boring. Right or wrong but some people are becoming not bothered by Hibs. They aren't even focused on the stream or the radio.

Mathie leaving hasn't suddenly fixed the problems at Hibs. I doubt another couple transfer windows will do it and that's with the right players leaving and coming. We've gone backwards.

We've had social media changes, we've had change in programmes etc. Club could easily alienate the fans with all the commercial stuff as they have, quite frankly in my eyes, forgot the important aspect to match day experience is entertainment on the pitch.

[Key West]

Jack Ross is probably the best and worst head coach to have through Covid times.

He steadied the ship and kept the players motivated enough to get a good league finish. Aberdeen were poor and no Hearts so you do have to temper that achievement slightly but achievement nevertheless.

However, by the same token during Covid times we've not particularly played scintillating football. Some fans think its been good enough in the main but others, including me, think it's almost entirely reliant on counter attacks led by Boyle. Some again think it's been boring. Right or wrong but some people are becoming not bothered by Hibs. They aren't even focused on the stream or the radio.

Mathie leaving hasn't suddenly fixed the problems at Hibs. I doubt another couple transfer windows will do it and that's with the right players leaving and coming. We've gone backwards.

We've had social media changes, we've had change in programmes etc. Club could easily alienate the fans with all the commercial stuff as they have, quite frankly in my eyes, forgot the important aspect to match day experience is entertainment on the pitch.

It would be hard to disagree with any of this.

[90274]

Will Jack Ross ever win over the majority of the fans? Especially now.

[chrisski33]

I just don't think we're as good as the media thinks we are. I can't say I'm his biggest fan, and a few of his signings have been poor. Why are we signing injury prone players? But I wouldn't sack him. Yet.

Very clear the players thought they were better than are currently but been found out. You would think they would have been out to prove something after last week but clearly couldnt be arsed

[jacomo]

Will Jack Ross ever win over the majority of the fans? Especially now.


Of course he can but he needs to overturn the narrative created by the cup disappointments last season.

It’s as clear as day and condescending nonsense questioning what constitutes a ‘big game’ won’t cut it.

[GoalsMcGinley]

How can people still come on here and defend him? The mid boggles. It really, really does.

“We finished 3rd”

“We got to 3 3 semi finals”

“We got to a cup final”

“We had a poor summer window”

It’s all nonsense! JR has had SIX transfer windows as manager of Hibernian and yet we’re still sat here saying our best player is Boyle and we miss Doidge. He signed neither. We started the game today with 6/11 players NOT signed by JR. He’s been here 3 years almost. The football is horrific. The results are starting to back that up. The “who do we get instead” argument is a joke as well. That’s the clubs job. JR has to go. Simple as that.


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[EI255]

No plan B


Never has been

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[madhatter]

Will Jack Ross ever win over the majority of the fans? Especially now.

He could if he came up with a recognisable style of play that entertains and gets the most out of the players to play that style before he gets better players for that style.

[One Day Soon]

Of course he can but he needs to overturn the narrative created by the cup disappointments last season.

It’s as clear as day and condescending nonsense questioning what constitutes a ‘big game’ won’t cut it.

This

[Callum_62]

How can people still come on here and defend him? The mid boggles. It really, really does.

“We finished 3rd”

“We got to 3 3 semi finals”

“We got to a cup final”

“We had a poor summer window”

It’s all nonsense! JR has had SIX transfer windows as manager of Hibernian and yet we’re still sat here saying our best player is Boyle and we miss Doidge. He signed neither. We started the game today with 6/11 players NOT signed by JR. He’s been here 3 years almost. The football is horrific. The results are starting to back that up. The “who do we get instead” argument is a joke as well. That’s the clubs job. JR has to go. Simple as that.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSimples. [emoji23]

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[lord bunberry]

It was crap last season when we were getting results as well. People said as much at the time. It was claimed it’s because we weren’t there. Now that we’re back it’s every bit as bad if not worse.

It’s become quite clear that Ross’ preferred way of playing is just absolutely turgid. That’s not going to change and as such he’ll never get all fans inside. If folk don’t enjoy going to watch their team then they’re not going to have much fondness for the manager who’s made them feel that way.
I didn’t think it was crap last season when we were getting results and I don’t think is crap this season. You don’t speak for all the hibs support.

[GordonHFC]

No plan B


Never has been

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What is plan A?

[lord bunberry]

Don't care if Ross stays, don't care if he goes.

Mr Biege. It's hard to have strong feelings about him either way. A boring manager who has presented us with a boring football team.
You’ll have strong feelings if his replacement returns us to our standard of underachieving.

[90274]

You’ll have strong feelings if his replacement returns us to our standard of underachieving.

Are we not already underachieving under Jack Ross though?

Look at his home record.

Look at his record in the games against our direct rivals.

Look at his record at Hampden.

[lord bunberry]

How can people still come on here and defend him? The mid boggles. It really, really does.

“We finished 3rd”

“We got to 3 3 semi finals”

“We got to a cup final”

“We had a poor summer window”

It’s all nonsense! JR has had SIX transfer windows as manager of Hibernian and yet we’re still sat here saying our best player is Boyle and we miss Doidge. He signed neither. We started the game today with 6/11 players NOT signed by JR. He’s been here 3 years almost. The football is horrific. The results are starting to back that up. The “who do we get instead” argument is a joke as well. That’s the clubs job. JR has to go. Simple as that.


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No he doesn’t simple as you.

[Sir David Gray]

Our YouTube channel's got us winning 1-0 yesterday so maybe it's not as bad as I thought.

[keep the faith]

Can only speak for myself and I am bored with hibs under Ross. I was bored last season and bored this season.
He plays counter attacking football, relying on keeping things tight and grabbing a penalty or Boyle breakaway. He signs unadventurous players like JDH. He was ready to ship the only player with any adventure off to st mirren last month. We dont win big games but will grab points against the teams below us. Basically we are aspiring to be McInnes Aberdeen and it's not for me.
I rarely use my season ticket now and am in no rush to head back.
Our better players are Boyle, Allan,Newall,Doidge,Hanlon. Our most meh are JDH,Cadden,McGennis, Wright etc. There is a theme in terms of who signed them.
Been attending since the 80s but never been so bored by Hibs.
As I say, not looking to argue, just stating how I personally feel.

[Vault Boy]

The idea that you're only ever two games from a crisis is ringing quite true here.

In isolation, an unlucky loss to Rangers at Ibrox and a boring defeat at Pittodrie is, unfortunately, as bog standard as it comes for Hibs. Not something we'd typically see threads like this about.

A shock, humbling loss at home to a team we should be expecting to beat the vast majority of times has turned this into more than it usually would be. Timing plays a big role here I think. As it stands, we've not won a game of football in almost a month, so I really do get it, I just don't agree with the conclusion.

Points/a good performance against Celtic followed by two consecutive league wins and I assume we won't see much of this until after the cup game.

[IberianHibernian]

We all remember 2016 as a great year for our club ( ok much more than great despite missing out on promotion ) .
We all remember 2017 as a good year as we got promotion .
But 2018 for me at least was even better . I really looked forward to every match home or away ( in my case on Hibs TV International when I was always jealous of fans who were actually there in the Holy Ground ) and was rarely disappointed , with some really exciting matches . Of course , Lennon was lucky to manage a talented group of players but , whatever you think about him as a manager , there`s no doubt his character contributed to the excitement of watching Hibs while he was our manager . As with many managers at many clubs things didn`t work out well the next season and he left but we still all have great memories of exciting football played before full stands . Then came Heckingbottom whose appointment disappointed me though I later thought he deserved a better deal than he got and Jack Ross . For me Jack Ross is a good manager for us if we want to do a Derek McInnes and qualify for Europe year after year but with boring football . If we want to maybe ( a big maybe ) do more and finish 2nd or even better and win some cups then we need someone who`ll really excite the support and motivate players . Who is that manager ? No idea this now . The alternative is someone who`ll stick around for 2 or 3 years developing an improving team which plays attractive football . Who ? Goodwin is an obvious candidate but there will be more .

[ArmadaleHibs]

I personally didn’t have a problem with JR until recently when the wheels have started to skid rather than come off. My issue is his inherent use of the phrase, “we haven’t matched the high standards we’ve set”.
What high standards. We are now beating slightly more often than not the teams we should be beating, your saints, livi, and so forth, but our record against the supposed bigger teams is actually woeful but hidden by our ability to take a little more points off the lower sides. Masking the true problem.

We are so one dimensional all of a sudden. We are creating less and less every week and I see we are beginning to see the players not responding to what they are being asked to do.

This phrase “we are not matching the high standards we have set” is utter bollox. We’ve really lacked creativity, we struggle to punish poor teams and this is in a league last season that outside the old firm has been the worst for years. We can be a decent side but we can also be an atrocious side. For this, the manager has to take the fullest of responsibility. Banging on about standards we have set not being met. What standards have we set. None really. Less are buying into it now and we are slowly going backwards. Fresh ideas, management and players are desperately needed. The question is. Do we afford JR the money to waste or improve ????

Ggtth

[ekhibee]

I think hounding is just hyperbole. This thread has been quite civilised and constructive. Social media might be a different matter but it’s not really representative of the real world.

Jack Ross has a real problem winning over the full support. I think, anecdotally so I could well be wrong, a large part and even a majority, of the support can see the good job he has done and foundations he has built. Yet despite all that find it difficult to connect with him and his style of play and as a result have much affinity with the current squad. It’s difficult to make a case to sack him, but I also find it difficult to make a passionate defence of Ross either.

Totally agree with this.

[Perfect Hatrick]

I didn’t think it was crap last season when we were getting results and I don’t think is crap this season. You don’t speak for all the hibs support.

And you don’t speak for all the Hibs support when you say it wasn’t crap last season..

I thought it was quite clear everyone on a forum was giving their own opinions.

[Magpie]

I personally didn’t have a problem with JR until recently when the wheels have started to skid rather than come off. My issue is his inherent use of the phrase, “we haven’t matched the high standards we’ve set”.
What high standards. We are now beating slightly more often than not the teams we should be beating, your saints, livi, and so forth, but our record against the supposed bigger teams is actually woeful but hidden by our ability to take a little more points off the lower sides. Masking the true problem.

We are so one dimensional all of a sudden. We are creating less and less every week and I see we are beginning to see the players not responding to what they are being asked to do.

This phrase “we are not matching the high standards we have set” is utter bollox. We’ve really lacked creativity, we struggle to punish poor teams and this is in a league last season that outside the old firm has been the worst for years. We can be a decent side but we can also be an atrocious side. For this, the manager has to take the fullest of responsibility. Banging on about standards we have set not being met. What standards have we set. None really. Less are buying into it now and we are slowly going backwards. Fresh ideas, management and players are desperately needed. The question is. Do we afford JR the money to waste or improve ????

Ggtth

This. It’s only so much ‘It isn’t good enough’ that you can give without actually producing anything. Celtic next, but we will probably produce a result (fingers crossed) it’s the Hibs way..

[Smartie]

The idea that you're only ever two games from a crisis is ringing quite true here.

In isolation, an unlucky loss to Rangers at Ibrox and a boring defeat at Pittodrie is, unfortunately, as bog standard as it comes for Hibs. Not something we'd typically see threads like this about.

A shock, humbling loss at home to a team we should be expecting to beat the vast majority of times has turned this into more than it usually would be. Timing plays a big role here I think. As it stands, we've not won a game of football in almost a month, so I really do get it, I just don't agree with the conclusion.

Points/a good performance against Celtic followed be two consecutive league wins and I assume we won't see much of this until after the cup game.

Whilst the last paragraph is true, it’s hard right now to see where our next chance is going to come from, let alone goal, let alone point, let alone win.

We’re all over the shop and we seem to be more about scattergunning squad players into formations until we get injured players back and the January window opens rather than having any sort of cohesive plan.

There were many warning signs there before the last 2 games.

[Crunchie]

He’s not going to be fired and neither he should be.

I’d be quite happy if another club came in for him though. This team bores me to tears. Also think last season will be the peak of what we achieve with Ross. Don’t think we’ll improve or match last season.
Apologies for singling out your post but people really should be careful what they wish for, we're consistently at the latter stages of the cups and at the right end of the league,there's Hibs fans who've genuinely suffered turgid boring football for whole seasons not just a few games.

Between 79 and and 90 was brutal apart from the odd game each season and cup runs were rarely past the early rounds. Jack Ross seems to be getting singled out, I'd be putting more of the blame on our captain who seems to get a free ride in comparison.

[Unseen work]

I’m not going to get into him as a whole as I think he’s been good and improved us a lot but this current form is poor - albeit it wasn’t too long ago we were bettering Rangers to go top of the league before Porteous got sent off.

But for us to have a full 45 minutes of being 1-0 down to an Aberdeen team who must be lacking confidence and not even manage to get 1 shot on target is unbelievable. Now I’m not blaming this all on Ross as he can only do so much on the side, but his comments about dominating the second half etc are nonsense.

There’s a huge difference between dominating and Aberdeen allowing us to have the ball. All we done was knock it about the back four then aimlessly hoof it up the park.

There was absolutely nothing about us yesterday and IMO we could still be playing now and wouldn’t have scored.

Dominating them surely must be in their half at least, creating chances and making them defend. We done none of those.

[J-C]

No he doesn’t simple as you.

Why do you and others always make personal jibes at posters instead of counter arguments, he's spot on with his post, Ross has been here long enough and had enough time to create his own team, which is as dour and turgid as himself.

[Crunchie]

Why do you and others always make personal jibes at posters instead of counter arguments, he's spot on with his post, Ross has been here long enough and had enough time to create his own team, which is as dour and turgid as himself.
That's just all too simplistic for me. People like you don't take into account injuries, suspensions and many other mitigating circumstances. And he's had nowhere near long enough to build a team, it's not football manager.

[bingo70]

Apologies for singling out your post but people really should be careful what they wish for, we're consistently at the latter stages of the cups and at the right end of the league,there's Hibs fans who've genuinely suffered turgid boring football for whole seasons not just a few games.

Between 79 and and 90 was brutal apart from the odd game each season and cup runs were rarely past the early rounds. Jack Ross seems to be getting singled out, I'd be putting more of the blame on our captain who seems to get a free ride in comparison.

I don’t disagree with that, that’s why I’m not in the camp to get Ross sacked.

Only thing I would say is I don’t enjoy watching this Hibs team anyway so in terms of entertainment value there’s not a huge amount at risk by replacing him. I do appreciate in terms of the results though there’s a lot that can go wrong by replacing him.

Think it comes back tk what people are looking for, some want points on the board and that’s all that matters, others, including myself want to be entertained and actually enjoy watching it.

[Since90+2]

Why do you and others always make personal jibes at posters instead of counter arguments, he's spot on with his post, Ross has been here long enough and had enough time to create his own team, which is as dour and turgid as himself.

Bit hypocritical to call out others for personal jibes and then in the same post make reference to Jack Ross as being dour and turgid as a person.

By all means if you don't like his style of play say so, but don't call out others for jibes then make one about someone who appears to be a decent guy.

[hibsbollah]

The idea that you're only ever two games from a crisis is ringing quite true here.

In isolation, an unlucky loss to Rangers at Ibrox and a boring defeat at Pittodrie is, unfortunately, as bog standard as it comes for Hibs. Not something we'd typically see threads like this about.

A shock, humbling loss at home to a team we should be expecting to beat the vast majority of times has turned this into more than it usually would be. Timing plays a big role here I think. As it stands, we've not won a game of football in almost a month, so I really do get it, I just don't agree with the conclusion.

Points/a good performance against Celtic followed by two consecutive league wins and I assume we won't see much of this until after the cup game.

An excellent balanced post, frame it :agree:

[Crunchie]

I don’t disagree with that, that’s why I’m not in the camp to get Ross sacked.

Only thing I would say is I don’t enjoy watching this Hibs team anyway so in terms of entertainment value there’s not a huge amount at risk by replacing him. I do appreciate in terms of the results though there’s a lot that can go wrong by replacing him.

Think it comes back tk what people are looking for, some want points on the board and that’s all that matters, others, including myself want to be entertained and actually enjoy watching it.
Fair do's mate but no matter who the manager or the team you'll go through bad patches, even the fabled Hibs team of the 70s put in some brutal displays and results at times. I think Jack will pull us through and be consistent challengers for cups.

[heretoday]

Fair do's mate but no matter who the manager or the team you'll go through bad patches, even the fabled Hibs team of the 70s put in some brutal displays and results at times. I think Jack will pull us through and be consistent challengers for cups.

Hibs defence in the 70s could get caught napping right enough and not just by Dixie Deans. John Blackley in particular frequently had to actually run at times to try and retrieve the ball after strolling into trouble. Joy to watch though most of the time, unlike the present team.

[loanheadhibby]

Why do you and others always make personal jibes at posters instead of counter arguments, he's spot on with his post, Ross has been here long enough and had enough time to create his own team, which is as dour and turgid as himself.

JR is slowly but surely turning in to his own version of the Alex Miller years. His team reflects his personality that he puts over to fans/press.

Would anyone be hugely surprised if we finished 6th.

[Dmas]

Apologies for singling out your post but people really should be careful what they wish for, we're consistently at the latter stages of the cups and at the right end of the league,there's Hibs fans who've genuinely suffered turgid boring football for whole seasons not just a few games.

Between 79 and and 90 was brutal apart from the odd game each season and cup runs were rarely past the early rounds. Jack Ross seems to be getting singled out, I'd be putting more of the blame on our captain who seems to get a free ride in comparison.

The captain isn’t consistently setting up the team in a formation that isn’t getting the best out the 11 that’s being picked, it must be difficult to take but this time it can’t be spun on Paul Hanlon.

Nisbet, Boyle, JDH, Newell, Doig, Cadden all suffering with poor form due to the formation IMO but Ross is sticking with it, it’s a certainty when Doidge is fit to return to the team that he will change to 2 up top so why can’t he play Gullan through the middle with Nisbet now? aye Gullan isn’t the battering ram doidge is but there’s more than one way to skin a cat and we can set up the rest of the team as they where before with doig getting more protection down the left for example than he has been getting.

I’ve never been a fan of JR I just can’t take to him, I’m not shouting for him to be sacked finishing 3rd was an achievement and I’m not sitting waiting for him to lose to batter him cause I want Hibs to win but I wouldn’t lose any sleep if he up and left I find Hibs a tough watch winning or losing under JR, it reminds me of Aberdeen under McInnes absolute turgid on the eyes but accepted because decent league finishes.

[Crunchie]

The captain isn’t consistently setting up the team in a formation that isn’t getting the best out the 11 that’s being picked, it must be difficult to take but this time it can’t be spun on Paul Hanlon.

Nisbet, Boyle, JDH, Newell, Doig, Cadden all suffering with poor form due to the formation IMO but Ross is sticking with it, it’s a certainty when Doidge is fit to return to the team that he will change to 2 up top so why can’t he play Gullan through the middle with Nisbet now? aye Gullan isn’t the battering ram doidge is but there’s more than one way to skin a cat and we can set up the rest of the team as they where before with doig getting more protection down the left for example than he has been getting.

I’ve never been a fan of JR I just can’t take to him, I’m not shouting for him to be sacked finishing 3rd was an achievement and I’m not sitting waiting for him to lose to batter him cause I want Hibs to win but I wouldn’t lose any sleep if he up and left I find Hibs a tough watch winning or losing under JR, it reminds me of Aberdeen under McInnes absolute turgid on the eyes but accepted because decent league finishes.
The captain is consistently in the team though and gets all the plaudits for (and I'd love a £ for every time I've seen this phrase ) having strolled it whenever we win. He was caught out badly for yesterday's goal and not for the first time either, I just think the manager shouldn't be blamed every time the team puts in a gutless performance like yesterday, surely the captain and the likes of Daz should be screaming blue murder to get a reaction from the others.

[GoalsMcGinley]

That's just all too simplistic for me. People like you don't take into account injuries, suspensions and many other mitigating circumstances. And he's had nowhere near long enough to build a team, it's not football manager.

Nowhere near long enough to build a team? He’s in his 3rd season as our manager. That’s absolutely long enough to build a team. The fact 6/11 starters yesterday where are the club in some capacity when he was appointed tells you he’s failed to do so. Out of curiosity, how long is enough time to build a team in your opinion?


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[Perfect Hatrick]

That's just all too simplistic for me. People like you don't take into account injuries, suspensions and many other mitigating circumstances. And he's had nowhere near long enough to build a team, it's not football manager.

Injuries, suspensions etc are part of the game. You need to be able to deal with them when they come round and we’re not doing a very good job of that. They really aren’t a great excuse, other teams get them as well.

Aberdeen ended up with Scott Brown at centre half yesterday because of injuries yet still beat us.

[Crunchie]

Nowhere near long enough to build a team? He’s in his 3rd season as our manager. That’s absolutely long enough to build a team. The fact 6/11 starters yesterday where are the club in some capacity when he was appointed tells you he’s failed to do so. Out of curiosity, how long is enough time to build a team in your opinion?


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Ask Alex Ferguson, he's more qualified than you or I. BTW you spelt Pat's name wrongly.

[GreenCastle]

This has been coming for a while.

Said it ages ago he over achieved last season. No Hearts / awful Aberdeen / weaker Celtic / even Dundee Utd weren’t great.

While he over achieved we still missed x3 golden opportunities to grow us as a club.

Both Saints games (semi and final) and the Hearts semi final. Winning the cup would have bought him some time and Easter Road would have been busier this season.

Instead we fail to sign anyone who is going to seriously improve us and who would be considered starters - JDH has potential but he did the same at St Mirren - start well then fade out after putting himself in shop window.

Hearts had 5 new players play at Ibrox last week. We had 1 in JDH. Now I’m not saying Hearts have been the scattergun model to follow over the last few years but they have 100% recruited better than us this season and it’s showing. They brought in someone from Preston (Savage) who has given them their best window in years.

Now..the issue we now have is..trying to fix the problems..

Wait till Doidge is back..well he’s been out ages and Achilles injuries take a long time to recover / potential to happen again (Souttar). We still need another 2 strikers.

Magennis - was definitely a positive this season and we hadn’t lost in the league till the last 3 he missed. But again we need him fit. We still need more energy and drive in midfield. Tait is good but need some experience in middle.

Mueller - isn’t a goal scorer as such and we already have Murphy and Mackay out wide. We recruited Scott who has been as much a let down as Drey Wright.

Left wing - why do we struggle to find a left footed winger - we may as well play Doig there who will give us some end product - cutting in all the time and crossing to Nisbet - who isn’t as good as Doidge in air isn’t going to win us games.

The January transfer opens but not much will happen before the new year Derby. Plus teams rarely sign loads of players in January - short term loan fixes but that still means rebuild in summer.

We can only hope players do return but as others have said we need to get more out of the current group plus do we not have a single young player who can break through and at least give the fans some optimism for the future ?

Seems every youngster isn’t good enough or can’t be trusted.

We need a cull of the average players not giving us enough - We also need to start to bring in defenders to replace an ageing back line - that’s before Doig gets sold too!

It’s not a crisis but just poor planning and we 100% didn’t push on after over achieving last season. As a result several folk are accountable including Mathie and Ross.

[GoalsMcGinley]

Ask Alex Ferguson, he's more qualified than you or I. BTW you spelt Pat's name wrongly.

You’re not seriously comparing the greatest British manager of all time to JR are you? The fact you’ve restored to commenting on my profile name tells me you know I am correct.

Have a nice day Jack.


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[superfurryhibby]

Turn things around lol. We're only 5 points off top and in a semi final. I'd rather get the bad patch out the way now.

Do you think if we lose the next two games Ross will still be in a job?

[Crunchie]

You’re not seriously comparing the greatest British manager of all time to JR are you? The fact you’ve restored to commenting on my profile name tells me you know I am correct.

Have a nice day Jack.


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He wouldn't be the greatest manager though if people like you had their way, he'd have been shown the door.

[GoalsMcGinley]

He wouldn't be the greatest manager though if people like you had their way, he'd have been shown the door.

People like me? I’ve not been a fan of JR since day one. He’s Alex Miller MkII. Boring, awful football with the odd good result thrown in. He’s won 2/3 games against the “top 4” sides we are competing with. If that’s good enough we’re in bother.


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[Heisenberg]

I don’t see JR getting sacked unless he drags us into a relegation battle before January.

[Crunchie]

People like me? I’ve not been a fan of JR since day one. He’s Alex Miller MkII. Boring, awful football with the odd good result thrown in. He’s won 2/3 games against the “top 4” sides we are competing with. If that’s good enough we’re in bother.


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If as you say you've not been a fan since day 1 then yes, people like you. Alex Miller had the worst record agains Hearts as any manager in Hibs history, I had the misfortune to have been at every one of them, you've not got a clue and I won't be responsiblr for bumping up your post count, cheerio :aok:

[superfurryhibby]

This has been coming for a while.

Said it ages ago he over achieved last season. No Hearts / awful Aberdeen / weaker Celtic / even Dundee Utd weren’t great.

While he over achieved we still missed x3 golden opportunities to grow us as a club.

Both Saints games (semi and final) and the Hearts semi final. Winning the cup would have bought him some time and Easter Road would have been busier this season.

Instead we fail to sign anyone who is going to seriously improve us and who would be considered starters - JDH has potential but he did the same at St Mirren - start well then fade out after putting himself in shop window.

Hearts had 5 new players play at Ibrox last week. We had 1 in JDH. Now I’m not saying Hearts have been the scattergun model to follow over the last few years but they have 100% recruited better than us this season and it’s showing.

Now..the issue we now have is..trying to fix the problems..

Wait till Doidge is back..well he’s been out ages and Achilles injuries take a long time to recover / potential to happen again (Souttar). We still need another 2 strikers.

Magennis - was definitely a positive this season and we hadn’t lost in the league till the last 3 he missed. But again we need him fit. We still need more energy and drive in midfield. Tait is good but need some experience in middle.

Mueller - isn’t a goal scorer as such as we already have Murphy and Mackay out wide. We recruited Scott who has been as much a let down as Drey Wright.

The January transfer opens but not much will happen before the new year Derby. We can only hope players do return but as others have said we need to get more out of the current group plus do we not have a single young player who can break through and at least give the fans some optimism for the future ?

Seems every youngster isn’t good enough or can’t be trusted.

We need a cull of the average players not giving us enough - We also need to start to bring in defenders to replace an ageing back line - that’s before Doig gets sold too!

It’s not a crisis but just poor planning and we 100% didn’t push on after over achieving last season. As a result several folk are accountable including Mathie and Ross.

Much sense in this.

Murphy, Wright, Mc Kay, Scott, Wood., Cadden... overall, it’s been a gash return from them. JDH and Gogic, both very average. Magennis, we can only hope, but thus far it’s been a pretty dire Hibs career.
Collectively, these guys represent a lot of money and our owner will no doubt be weighing that up and balancing it with the two good signings in Mc Ginn and Nisbet.

Fans are voting with their feet and again that won’t be unnoticed by those in charge.

Ross is close to the end in my view.

[Since452]

Do you think if we lose the next two games Ross will still be in a job?

Yes

[stuart-farquhar]

I'd bring in Ted Lasso.

[loanheadhibby]

If as you say you've not been a fan since day 1 then yes, people like you. Alex Miller had the worst record agains Hearts as any manager in Hibs history, I had the misfortune to have been at every one of them, you've not got a clue and I won't be responsiblr for bumping up your post count, cheerio :aok:

I lived thru the Miller years as well. You can help but feel these are very similar. Similar brand of football which seems safety 1st? Similar personality traits.

JDH/Neil Orr/Brian Hamilton/Gogic type players.

Not winning enough so called big games.

[Perfect Hatrick]

I don’t see JR getting sacked unless he drags us into a relegation battle before January.

Likewise. Although I’d question whether it should be something we wait until to take action.

We’re aiming for third. You’re never going to get there from a relegation battle but you may get there from mid table. If you take action early enough then the season is still salvageable.

That’s not to say I think he should be sacked yet btw but I’m not sure it should be a case of waiting until we look in a bit of danger of getting relegated. We’re aiming higher than ever now, I don’t think floating around mid table if that’s where we end up further into the season should be enough to keep your job like it used to be.

[J-C]

That's just all too simplistic for me. People like you don't take into account injuries, suspensions and many other mitigating circumstances. And he's had nowhere near long enough to build a team, it's not football manager.

He's had 4 transfer windows to shape and make his own team, and is just a month under 2 years in charge, he's had plenty of time to build his team. Yes we've had injury problems, suspensions etc, but the threadbare squad isn't all Mathie's fault, the head coach is also a big part of the recruitment team as he has the final say, we went in for McGrath at the last minute but why did we not go for him or someone similar earlier in the window.


Bit hypocritical to call out others for personal jibes and then in the same post make reference to Jack Ross as being dour and turgid as a person.

By all means if you don't like his style of play say so, but don't call out others for jibes then make one about someone who appears to be a decent guy.

Saying he's dour and turgid is not being personal, it's how he comes across in his interviews when I see them, he may well be a totally different person in real life but in front of the camera he comes over as dour and turgid, that's my opinion.

[GoalsMcGinley]

If as you say you've not been a fan since day 1 then yes, people like you. Alex Miller had the worst record agains Hearts as any manager in Hibs history, I had the misfortune to have been at every one of them, you've not got a clue and I won't be responsiblr for bumping up your post count, cheerio :aok:

I’ve more of a clue than you’ll ever have….. I’m pleased you managed to get to every derby under AM. Maybe if I’d. it missed 1 or 2 you would help bump up my post count.

It’s “people like you” who are holding this club back. Happy to accept “we finished 3rd” (in a weakened league) “we got to a cup final”. There’s a reason we’ve only won 3 league cups and 3 Scottish cups in 150 years!


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[Pretty Boy]

Managers just don't get 5 or 6 years to keep building teams these days. If they do well and maintain that for a while then they get poached elsewhere, if they regress they leave by mutual consent and likewise happens if they never really get going at all. Steven Gerrard might be seen as an exception in recent times as it was made clear it was a 2 to 3 year project when he took over. If he didn't win the league last year he would be gone by now though, his cup record will come under a lot more scrutiny now and that's a new pressure.

Ross done well last year. I can gripe about the entertainment value all I like but ultimately we finished 3rd and that's all too rare an achievement at Hibs. The cups were ultimately a disappointment, from the position we were in to only make one final was disappointing. To perform the way we did in that final was frankly a disgrace.

Ross has had (I think) 4 transfer windows and is in his 3rd season with us now. This is his team, they are versed in his style and are playing to his instruction. If the last couple of weeks are indicative of how our season is going to go then his 5th transfer window could well be his last. I have no doubt at all that an owner who has stated he is ambitious will pull the trigger if he sees clear signs of regression.

[Crunchie]

I lived thru the Miller years as well. You can help but feel these are very similar. Similar brand of football which seems safety 1st? Similar personality traits.

JDH/Neil Orr/Brian Hamilton/Gogic type players.

Not winning enough so called big games.
Brutal eye bleeding football in the early years which he managed to transform bringing in players like Crunchie, O'Neill, Jackson and we were a very entertaining side to watch. His downfall was his record against Hearts.
I think Jack deserves time and at least another couple of full seasons.

For a couple of reasons I don't go to the games any more so I'll bow out of the argument but it's nothing to do with Jack and I have every confidence in the man being one of our better managers.

[matty_f]

He's had 4 transfer windows to shape and make his own team, and is just a month under 2 years in charge, he's had plenty of time to build his team. Yes we've had injury problems, suspensions etc, but the threadbare squad isn't all Mathie's fault, the head coach is also a big part of the recruitment team as he has the final say, we went in for McGrath at the last minute but why did we not go for him or someone similar earlier in the window.



Saying he's dour and turgid is not being personal, it's how he comes across in his interviews when I see them, he may well be a totally different person in real life but in front of the camera he comes over as dour and turgid, that's my opinion.
How can saying someone is dour and turgid not be personal? That makes no sense at all.

[Bobo]

For me the issues we see are not attributed to Jack Ross or any particular players individually but more a case of weak mentality throughout the club as a whole.

It's not a new phenomenon that can be levelled at the current manager or squad as it is sadly a trait that has been prevalent at the club for far too long.

We are too nice and obliging almost to the point of being apologetic and lack aggression, determination and, dare I say it, nastiness both on and off the pitch for my liking.

So called "smaller clubs" with less resources than Hibs seem to be able to punch above their weight because they have that desire to scrap and fight for anything they achieve, we seldom ever do.

There's no prizes for being nice and over considerate as to how others perceive us, it's time to be selfish, ruthless, even ignorant to the point we offend other clubs. It's worked for the old firm and the merricks for long enough.

It's time to toughen up and give some back Hibs.

[J-C]

How can saying someone is dour and turgid not be personal? That makes no sense at all.

Well he's not a happy bubbly chirpy guy is he, he comes over as dour and turgid in his interviews.

[madhatter]

Brutal eye bleeding football in the early years which he managed to transform bringing in players like Crunchie, O'Neill, Jackson and we were a very entertaining side to watch. His downfall was his record against Hearts.
I think Jack deserves time and at least another couple of full seasons.

For a couple of reasons I don't go to the games any more so I'll bow out of the argument but it's nothing to do with Jack and I have every confidence in the man being one of our better managers.

Why does Jack Ross deserve at least another couple of full seasons? And conversely, why didn't Mathie?

Why does Jack Ross have credit in the bank and why has Mathie become portrayed as an incompetent underperformer?

We had a couple of good transfer windows with Mathie around but somehow that's wiped out because we didn't get McGrath...

Ruthless with anyone but Jack sounds like a great plan...means Jack and Ron can discuss more things around establishing companies and the like.

[Perfect Hatrick]

Brutal eye bleeding football in the early years which he managed to transform bringing in players like Crunchie, O'Neill, Jackson and we were a very entertaining side to watch. His downfall was his record against Hearts.
I think Jack deserves time and at least another couple of full seasons.

For a couple of reasons I don't go to the games any more so I'll bow out of the argument but it's nothing to do with Jack and I have every confidence in the man being one of our better managers.

There’s not a manager in football who will get another couple of seasons unless they perform to their expectations. You don’t just get given 4 or 5 years in a job to see how it goes.

[Ozyhibby]

Why does Jack Ross deserve at least another couple of full seasons? And conversely, why didn't Mathie?

Why does Jack Ross have credit in the bank and why has Mathie become portrayed as an incompetent underperformer?

We had a couple of good transfer windows with Mathie around but somehow that's wiped out because we didn't get McGrath...

Ruthless with anyone but Jack sounds like a great plan...means Jack and Ron can discuss more things around establishing companies and the like.

Because Ross got us to 3rd even though we could see the recruitment wasn’t good?



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[Crunchie]

Why does Jack Ross deserve at least another couple of full seasons? And conversely, why didn't Mathie?

Why does Jack Ross have credit in the bank and why has Mathie become portrayed as an incompetent underperformer?

We had a couple of good transfer windows with Mathie around but somehow that's wiped out because we didn't get McGrath...

Ruthless with anyone but Jack sounds like a great plan...means Jack and Ron can discuss more things around establishing companies and the like.
I've never commented on Mathie as I've not got a clue as to the workings behind it all and how we make signings.

[Spike Mandela]

I’ve more of a clue than you’ll ever have….. I’m pleased you managed to get to every derby under AM. Maybe if I’d. it missed 1 or 2 you would help bump up my post count.

It’s “people like you” who are holding this club back. Happy to accept “we finished 3rd” (in a weakened league) “we got to a cup final”. There’s a reason we’ve only won 3 league cups and 3 Scottish cups in 150 years!


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People aren’t ‘accepting’ simply stating the reality of last year. We finished 3rd in the league and played in 3 semi finals and a final. Poor showings against St Johnstone cost us but thin margins and all that. If Hibs had won the cup final it would arguably have been our greatest season Ever. As for a weakened league, behave yourself, because a **** Hearts team gets relegated results are null and void?😂

As for this season, I was at Motherwell and came away thinking this team has talent and spirit. Decent results followed and we were looking good for top of the league then the last 3 games happened. Key players missing showed the lack of depth in the squad, key decisions cost us at Ibrox and imo the stop/start nature of the league has cost us momentum and form especially for some of our International players.

As for sacking Jack Ross I think we are a long way away from even being close to that point. Events in the recruitment department recently suggest the owner thinks blame lies elsewhere for a poor close season in the transfer market. Despite our recent results JR has been one of our most consistent managers with one of the best win rates and imo,taking the long view, I think he will be good for Hibs and will be a steady presence at the helm for a while.

Undoubtedly the team needs a result and a performance for the man and hopefully it comes on Wed night.

[madhatter]

Because Ross got us to 3rd even though we could see the recruitment wasn’t good?



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And assume instantly that its 100% Mathie's fault and he should lose his job?

Wow. Ruthless.

If you think we are getting 3rd this year under Ross with this team then I think optimism has shifted to becoming unrealistic.

People forget...no fans, no Hearts, garbage Aberdeen. Getting 3rd in one season, an unusual season, should not make the head coach an untouchable messiah. We'll sack everyone around him and replace with St Mirren people at this rate.

Does James Fowler still do the Mathie role elsewhere? If so, why isn't he already signed up?

[Ozyhibby]

I've never commented on Mathie as I've not got a clue as to the workings behind it all and how we make signings.

You don’t need to know the internal working, all you need to know is that he was in charge of recruitment and it was going terribly so he had to go. Measure the output and don’t worry about the inputs.


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[Perfect Hatrick]

Because Ross got us to 3rd even though we could see the recruitment wasn’t good?



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Getting third place once shouldn’t and thankfully won’t make him untouchable for a couple of seasons. That would be football suicide if one successful season meant managers got to have another 2 seasons no matter how they do.

[Gmack7]

Much sense in this.

Murphy, Wright, Mc Kay, Scott, Wood., Cadden... overall, it’s been a gash return from them. JDH and Gogic, both very average. Magennis, we can only hope, but thus far it’s been a pretty dire Hibs career.
Collectively, these guys represent a lot of money and our owner will no doubt be weighing that up and balancing it with the two good signings in Mc Ginn and Nisbet.

Fans are voting with their feet and again that won’t be unnoticed by those in charge.

Ross is close to the end in my view.
Your point about the fans voting with their feet may well be the deciding factor, hardly any walk ups and evidence of an increase in ST holders not pitching up would be hard to come back from IMO

[flash]

Why does Jack Ross deserve at least another couple of full seasons? And conversely, why didn't Mathie?

Why does Jack Ross have credit in the bank and why has Mathie become portrayed as an incompetent underperformer?

We had a couple of good transfer windows with Mathie around but somehow that's wiped out because we didn't get McGrath...

Ruthless with anyone but Jack sounds like a great plan...means Jack and Ron can discuss more things around establishing companies and the like.
If you think not getting McGrath was the biggest problem in the transfer window then you are deluded.

[madhatter]

I've never commented on Mathie as I've not got a clue as to the workings behind it all and how we make signings.

Yes, but you also seemingly back the thought that Jack Ross needs more transfer windows which also seemingly backs the thought that we'll recruit better players, which in turn backs the thought that Mathie wasn't doing the trick.

Recruitment being poor is being lumped entirely on Mathie and I think that's utter rubbish. I'll say it again, we signed English players when Heckingbottom was here, we now sign Hamilton, St Johnstone and St Mirren players.

If that isn't your Head Coach influencing signings I don't know what is. And before anyone says it, do people genuinely think McGrath would fix our midfield? He's another good footballer like Newell and JDH. We don't need that, we are outworked in the midfield every week.

[Ozyhibby]

And assume instantly that its 100% Mathie's fault and he should lose his job?

Wow. Ruthless.

If you think we are getting 3rd this year under Ross with this team then I think optimism has shifted to becoming unrealistic.

People forget...no fans, no Hearts, garbage Aberdeen. Getting 3rd in one season, an unusual season, should not make the head coach an untouchable messiah. We'll sack everyone around him and replace with St Mirren people at this rate.

Does James Fowler still do the Mathie role elsewhere? If so, why isn't he already signed up?

Mathie’s job was to head all the recruitment. It was failing spectacularly. He had to go.


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[madhatter]

If you think not getting McGrath was the biggest problem in the transfer window then you are deluded.

What was the sackable offence then?

[bigwheel]

What was the sackable offence then?

I’d imagine it was a mixture of things…but turning down over 2M for Doig looks like one of the elements….


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[madhatter]

Mathie’s job was to head all the recruitment. It was failing spectacularly. He had to go.


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And our manager's failure to get a tune out of his players is a contract extension?

[J-C]

I’d imagine it was a mixture of things…but turning down over 2M for Doig looks like one of the elements….


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Putting £5m on his head and thinking English clubs would pay that for a young lad with 1 senior season under his belt was his problem. £2m with add ons was a very fair price for the lad and would have given us very good funds to strengthen the squad.

[B.H.F.C]

Coming down on the train last night the verdict was pretty unanimous, nobody really enjoys watching a Jack Ross team.

The current argument seems to be ‘who do we get that’s better’ though.

The empty seats on Wednesday will tell their own story.

[madhatter]

I’d imagine it was a mixture of things…but turning down over 2M for Doig looks like one of the elements….


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How are we able to discuss the unknown on a lesser paid staf member like he's a lesser person and our head coach is untouchable because of a single 3rd position in a covid year without fans, without Hearts and with a poor Aberdeen?

Aberdeen have gone backwards from last year, they are worse and they've beaten us again. We did not register a single shot on goal. If we are saying they are a really poor team, what does that make us?

Mathie is the fall guy. That's becoming obvious now.

[madhatter]

Putting £5m on his head and thinking English clubs would pay that for a young lad with 1 senior season under his belt was his problem. £2m with add ons was a very fair price for the lad and would have given us very good funds to strengthen the squad.

Ron Gordon himself said he didn't want to undervalue our players. He was pleased when we kept Nisbet and Porteous and made statements on how much he thought Nisbet was worth if I remember correctly.

Also, more than once Ron made stupid comments about players he thought we had when we didn't. They went to other clubs or deal wasn't completed.

[B.H.F.C]

And our manager's failure to get a tune out of his players is a contract extension?

It’s like all things with Hibs, always someone else’s fault.

Goals from crosses are nothing to do with the centre halves. The midfield passing back the way is because nobody is showing. Nisbet being terrible is down to a lack of service.

We’re honking but nobody is actually responsible.

[flash]

What was the sackable offence then?

Presumably an accumulation of things.
The failure to sell somebody which was clearly supposed to happen.
The failure, yet again, to get another forward in.
The farcical last few hours of the window with two of our players waiting at St Mirrens training ground for a deal to go through.
Not saying all this was his fault but it doesn't look good.

[Heisenberg]

Coming down on the train last night the verdict was pretty unanimous, nobody really enjoys watching a Jack Ross team.

The current argument seems to be ‘who do we get that’s better’ though.

The empty seats on Wednesday will tell their own story.

I’d anticipate two main names linked would be Alex Neil and Derek McInnes. Don’t think I’d want either.

[Crunchie]

How are we able to discuss the unknown on a lesser paid staf member like he's a lesser person and our head coach is untouchable because of a single 3rd position in a covid year without fans, without Hearts and with a poor Aberdeen?

Aberdeen have gone backwards from last year, they are worse and they've beaten us again. We did not register a single shot on goal. If we are saying they are a really poor team, what does that make us?

Mathie is the fall guy. That's becoming obvious now.
You seem determined to undermine our 3rd place finish for some reason :confused:. Do you think Aberdeen fans cared when we Hearts and the Rangers weren't in the league?

[bigwheel]

How are we able to discuss the unknown on a lesser paid staf member like he's a lesser person and our head coach is untouchable because of a single 3rd position in a covid year without fans, without Hearts and with a poor Aberdeen?

Aberdeen have gone backwards from last year, they are worse and they've beaten us again. We did not register a single shot on goal. If we are saying they are a really poor team, what does that make us?

Mathie is the fall guy. That's becoming obvious now.

I agree with that tbh. To suggest Mathie is the main reason is indeed unfair. The players and ultimately the manager need to take the accountability.

That said, Ross I’m sure, is fuming that he is having to deal with this part of the season with such a light squad. A few key injuries and suspensions and our light squad is really shown up for what it is. That is where Mathie had a big part to play. I’m convinced they were expecting at least Doig or Porto to get sold for decent money (Mathie responsibility) and bring a few in to the squad.

Aberdeen may have gone backwards in results terms, but they have signed loads of players. Hearts have signed well, Motherwell, United and others all looking much stronger. With a few injuries we look weaker. Will be a tough stretch possibly until January, and Ross will rightly feel he has not been helped as much as he should have been. That said, he needs to turn around performances quickly.


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[madhatter]

Presumably an accumulation of things.
The failure to sell somebody which was clearly supposed to happen.
The failure, yet again, to get another forward in.
The farcical last few hours of the window with two of our players waiting at St Mirrens training ground for a deal to go through.
Not saying all this was his fault but it doesn't look good.

Was he identifying the players though? People are unhappy at Drey Wright, James Scott and Nathan Wood type signings as well. Was he waiting at St Mirrens training ground because Jack Ross said "get me another St Mirren player".

Really don't think Mathie came back with no forward options. I think Jack Ross didn't want them and/or decided on James Scott personally.

[Mainstandman]

I think we are just not a good side no matter who we put out. They struggle to retain the ball and move the ball with speed and good movement. We have a good attacking threat that on ocassion comes off and we score but in general play we show very little, even last year we were often poor.

There appears a lack of positional sense and shape and that the players really know what they are meant to do. Passes often reach a stationary player. I think we see that when we get behind, they try hard to attack but it’s very one dimension stuff through Boyle, when that doesn’t work they are at a loss. I don’t see much collective team pressure through good passing and movement it’s often a break by one player. So we score and win games but even the the overall team performance doesn’t get you that excited as the rest of the game isn’t brilliant, like the livvy game this year, two great goals but the rest pretty boring stuff. You can say that’s a win but it manifests itself in the games where we don’t have the attacking success and again we look laboured.

Take the cup Utd game away the game was pretty even first have but we had three devastating attacks, come the second half we didn’t know what to do and we’re lucky to concede only one goal.

The majority of our goals conceded are from unmarked players.

I think it’s fixable but otherwise we will continue to win quite a few games with our attackers but the rest will be poor. It’s a shame I’d like to see a better team performance rather than the odd goal, that gets me excited and looking forward to games. I’ll always be there but I can see crowds dropping off.

[Pretty Boy]

Coming down on the train last night the verdict was pretty unanimous, nobody really enjoys watching a Jack Ross team.

The current argument seems to be ‘who do we get that’s better’ though.

The empty seats on Wednesday will tell their own story.

That's the impression I get from most people I speak to at games and out and about during the week.

The very vocal 'Pro Ross' are a tiny minority, the 'Ross out' equally so. It seems a huge number are quite similar to myself, and it appears people on your train, in that they don't enjoy watching this Hibs team at all but would struggle to make a coherent argument for sacking the manager either.

I'm not sure about the who would be better line of thought. It always seems to get trotted out when all other lines of arguments for the defence have been exhausted. I don't think we are there with Ross yet.

[flash]

Was he identifying the players though? People are unhappy at Drey Wright, James Scott and Nathan Wood type signings as well. Was he waiting at St Mirrens training ground because Jack Ross said "get me another St Mirren player".

Really don't think Mathie came back with no forward options. I think Jack Ross didn't want them and/or decided on James Scott personally.

We will never know the whole truth.

Regardless it was a disastrous window.

[madhatter]

You seem determined to undermine our 3rd place finish for some reason :confused:. Do you think Aberdeen fans cared when we Hearts and the Rangers weren't in the league?

No, people are determined to throw Mathie under the bus to protect Jack Ross.

I genuinely think giving Jack Ross more transfer windows will make our squad even worse.

Do people think Mathie was the one that initiated the Wright and Allan trade deal as well?

Do people genuinely think he'd have the authority to deny transfer bids without phoning the owner?

He's the fall guy.

[S4uzee]

I’d anticipate two main names linked would be Alex Neil and Derek McInnes. Don’t think I’d want either.

Derek McInnes would improve Hibs

[Gettin' Auld]

I think Ross will be given the next transfer window to bolster the squad but he (or the recruitment team) have to get it right. I don't know who was to blame for the poor recruitment in the last window, but ultimately it's Ross who's in the top post so the buck stops with him.

In my opinion, he's simply the wrong guy for Hibs. We mostly want our team to entertain and play in a certain way, which is never going to happen as he's so negative, so the fans don't really get on board. We may put up with things for a while if we keep picking up points but when that doesn't happen, he won't get as long as a more personable manager would, before the fans turn on him.

[bigwheel]

No, people are determined to throw Mathie under the bus to protect Jack Ross.

I genuinely think giving Jack Ross more transfer windows will make our squad even worse.

Do people think Mathie was the one that initiated the Wright and Allan trade deal as well?

Do people genuinely think he'd have the authority to deny transfer bids without phoning the owner?

He's the fall guy.

He was the one advising the owner that we can get more than is offered…and we didn’t !

You seem to be doing the opposite of what you are complaining about…putting it all on to Ross and ignoring the role Mathie had. There is no doubt the window was a poor one, and that was not the dominant role of Ross. The performances on the park are his domain.


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[bigwheel]

Derek McInnes would improve Hibs

He’s not the guy for us…would much rather have Neil if we end up searching for a new boss…although apparently he is in line for a job down south.


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[Key West]

With a streamlined squad and hampered by injuries and suspensions and given that there is very little between us and our rivals in terms of quality, what would you have done differently yesterday?
No provocation intended, you also have the benefit of hindsight.:cb

[madhatter]

He was the one advising the owner that we can get more than is offered…and we didn’t !

You seem to be doing the opposite of what you are complaining about…putting it all on to Ross and ignoring the role Mathie had. There is no doubt the window was a poor one, and that was not the dominant role of Ross. The performances on the park are his domain.


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I'm not saying the transfer window was 100% on Ross. People here are saying it's 100% Mathie and I'm trying to argue with emphasis why that wouldn't have been the case.

Rather easy to see tbh, Heckingbottom - English players signed, Ross - Hamilton, St Johnstone and St Mirren players signed.

If people are unhappy about recruitment I suggest the head coach has more to do with it than they think. We signed duds when Heckingbottom was here as well, strangely enough they came from his area of knowledge not Mathies.

People are suggesting the performances on the park are because recruitment was so poor. I think that's a stretch and is making an excuse for the head coach. Our starting 11 against Aberdeen should've been good enough to get 1 shot on target.

[Brightside]

Derek McInnes would improve Hibs

Yet he was launched as the fans hated his football.

[Weegreenman]

Shoot! 😂😂😂

[Brightside]

If only there was another thread for this.

[The dalmeny]

Another manager thread 🙄

[bigwheel]

I'm not saying the transfer window was 100% on Ross. People here are saying it's 100% Mathie and I'm trying to argue with emphasis why that wouldn't have been the case.

Rather easy to see tbh, Heckingbottom - English players signed, Ross - Hamilton, St Johnstone and St Mirren players signed.

If people are unhappy about recruitment I suggest the head coach has more to do with it than they think. We signed duds when Heckingbottom was here as well, strangely enough they came from his area of knowledge not Mathies.

People are suggesting the performances on the park are because recruitment was so poor. I think that's a stretch and is making an excuse for the head coach. Our starting 11 against Aberdeen should've been good enough to get 1 shot on target.

They are both responsible….isn’t that obvious ? And yes, we didn’t play well again yesterday and Ross is rightly getting hammered for it. Not sure what point you are trying to make tbh..other than “Ross is more to blame than Mathie”. He may well be, but included in the current status is a very poor transfer window (in and out) which was Mathie’s main role. That’s simply fact.

One thing for sure - Ross is the only one left, so he is the only one of the two that can do anything about it now.


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[bigwheel]

Tbf to the OP, the subject of the thread is not what his post was about…it was asking what people, in hindsight, would have done differently.

Murphy on from the start, and by the looks of his short cameo, given Drey Wright more game time.


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[Weegreenman]

Whenever I watch Hibs, I’m frustrated by our lack tempo. Especially at home.
This isn’t just a JR phenomenon, it’s been a reall problem for a good few years now.
We don’t put the opposition under enough pressure. First twenty minutes is the time to come out all guns blazing.
Get the fans off their seats.

[Key West]

Tbf to the OP, the subject of the thread is not what his post was about…it was asking what people, in hindsight, would have done differently.

Murphy on from the start, and by the looks of his short cameo, given Drey Wright more game time.


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Thank you for clearing that up.

[madhatter]

They are both responsible….isn’t that obvious ? And yes, we didn’t play well again yesterday and Ross is rightly getting hammered for it. Not sure what point you are trying to make tbh..other than “Ross is more to blame than Mathie”. He may well be, but included in the current status is a very poor transfer window (in and out) which was Mathie’s main role. That’s simply fact.

One thing for sure - Ross is the only one left, so he is the only one of the two that can do anything about it now.


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I think the point I'm making is simple. Our inability to get the right players in during transfer windows will not suddenly be fixed now that Mathie is gone. Some seem to think that our January window is going to be a belter.

[Brightside]

Thank you for clearing that up.

Maybe clear up the thread title then?

[bigwheel]

I think the point I'm making is simple. Our inability to get the right players in during transfer windows will not suddenly be fixed now that Mathie is gone. Some seem to think that our January window is going to be a belter.

Without someone who is leading the process, it can only be targeted at people we know about I’m guessing …will be a tough window..January usually is .

If they have any ambition , they should be adding one or two to come in early alongside Mueller and Tait

[blackpoolhibs]

Whenever I watch Hibs, I’m frustrated by our lack tempo. Especially at home.
This isn’t just a JR phenomenon, it’s been a reall problem for a good few years now.
We don’t put the opposition under enough pressure. First twenty minutes is the time to come out all guns blazing.
Get the fans off their seats.

Look at our midfield, we are incapable of pressing teams and getting them on the back foot with that lot.

[jacomo]

I’d anticipate two main names linked would be Alex Neil and Derek McInnes. Don’t think I’d want either.


Jeez. Things aren’t that bad are they?

[LaMotta]

Cadden not starting would be first move.

Doig at left mid. Murphy at right mid. Gullan on Bench. Boyle up front with Nisbet.

[Moulin Yarns]

With a streamlined squad and hampered by injuries and suspensions and given that there is very little between us and our rivals in terms of quality, what would you have done differently yesterday?
No provocation intended, you also have the benefit of hindsight.:cb

I can't take anyone seriously that uses the word 'and' 4 times in the one sentence, and fails to use any punctuation at the same time.

[jacomo]

Maybe clear up the thread title then?


:agree:

[Ozyhibby]

Yet he was launched as the fans hated his football.

And some of our fans want to make the same mistake here.


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[Ozyhibby]

Look at our midfield, we are incapable of pressing teams and getting them on the back foot with that lot.

I think that is our biggest problem right now and has been for a while.


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[Brightside]

And some of our fans want to make the same mistake here.


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We are having a dip in form. Now is not the time for panic buttons.

[B.H.F.C]

And some of our fans want to make the same mistake here.


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It’s more than some IMO. Apathy is properly setting in, empty seats on Wednesday will show that.

[tamig]

:agree:

Agreed. Total misnomer.

[tamig]

And our manager's failure to get a tune out of his players is a contract extension?

If half his better players aren’t available to him and the duff recruitment has left a big hole as to who can step in, is that down to the manager. You can’t always get a decent tune from a poor instrument.

[Nicho87]

Managed this morning to watch 2 thirds of Ross hibs tv interview

I just find it dull and uninspiring

Again referring to the last 18 months, players have been decent

Time to live in the present jack, the players are stale.

Get the contract offers off the table to Nisbet and start telling these boys better shape up or it’ll be big changes.

This constant protection of them isn’t getting results or even 45 minutes performance now like it did last season.

Honestly, I’d be delighted with Alex Neil if that was a realistic option.

[B.H.F.C]

If half his better players aren’t available to him and the duff recruitment has left a big hole as to who can step in, is that down to the manager. You can’t always get a decent tune from a poor instrument.

When we win he’s a good manager and when we lose it’s someone else’s fault then. He has a team, at the moment, who are a total non entity. We have nothing about us.

Recruitment was undoubtedly crap in the summer but he needs to put a team on the park who actually look like they want to do the basic things you need to do in a game of football. We’ve got a team who just go through the motions.

[Perfect Hatrick]

It’s more than some IMO. Apathy is properly setting in, empty seats on Wednesday will show that.

It is and I think the change in tone/amount of posters who are showing signs of it compared to the end of last season says a lot. There seems to have been a significant swing in terms of people not being happy with Hibs.

I was speaking to my mate on Friday. Him and some of his pals and family have 5 season tickets together. Most of them can’t make it every week so they just all chip in and use them when they can rather than buying a full one each. He was saying that they’ve not had more than two of them at a game at the same time all season and it’s never been because of work commitments etc. They just don’t want to go because they don’t enjoy it.

I wouldn’t stop going to the games because I’ve already paid for them by buying a season ticket. I can safely say though that I really don’t enjoy watching this Hibs team and the vast majority of games are an absolute chore to sit through. I used to go to all the away games but I’ve only been to one this season and have absolutely no desire to go to more and it’s been a good while since that’s been the case, probably since we got relegated. It was getting that way with Heckingbottom but he was only here for so few games that it never had the chance for apathy to set in.

[Key West]

Tbf to the OP, the subject of the thread is not what his post was about…it was asking what people, in hindsight, would have done differently.

Murphy on from the start, and by the looks of his short cameo, given Drey Wright more game time.


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I thought that Murphy and Doig should have started but in theory it was an attacking line up.

[Key West]

Cadden not starting would be first move.

Doig at left mid. Murphy at right mid. Gullan on Bench. Boyle up front with Nisbet.

I don't think Jack Ross had a lot of options yesterday.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It’s more than some IMO. Apathy is properly setting in, empty seats on Wednesday will show that.

I think the empty seats can go down to a number of factors- including folk moaning about it not being 5-5 every week. Covid and cost (£33) will be part of the reason.

[madhatter]

If half his better players aren’t available to him and the duff recruitment has left a big hole as to who can step in, is that down to the manager. You can’t always get a decent tune from a poor instrument.

He's partially responsible for the construction of the instrument...

This idea that our head coach just gets given players that he needs to glue together and get a tune from is an absolute fallacy. We are clearly recruiting players Jack Ross wants as we are no longer signing Newell and Doidge types from down south.

So, this "duff recruitment" being attributed to Mathie, the ether or whomever/whatever is just an excuse. Head coach decides who he wants and so has a part to play in the "duff recruitment".

[tamig]

He's partially responsible for the construction of the instrument...

This idea that our head coach just gets given players that he needs to glue together and get a tune from is an absolute fallacy. We are clearly recruiting players Jack Ross wants as we are no longer signing Newell and Doidge types from down south.

So, this "duff recruitment" being attributed to Mathie, the ether or whomever/whatever is just an excuse. Head coach decides who he wants and so has a part to play in the "duff recruitment".
He is part of the process for sure. But if his requirements aren’t met, I can’t see how that is down to him. There’s a whole team at EM who are tasked with delivering the recruitment requirements. They failed this summer.

[Stuart93]

I think the empty seats can go down to a number of factors- including folk moaning about it not being 5-5 every week. Covid and cost (£33) will be part of the reason.

Aye true. No-ones stupid enough to pay £33 to watch this hibs team.

[B.H.F.C]

I think the empty seats can go down to a number of factors- including folk moaning about it not being 5-5 every week. Covid and cost (£33) will be part of the reason.

They will be factors (pricing is another thing they’ve got wrong). Biggest factor is what folk are seeing though. Been a lack of appetite to watch this team since we got back as it is.

[bingo70]

I think the empty seats can go down to a number of factors- including folk moaning about it not being 5-5 every week. Covid and cost (£33) will be part of the reason.

If we were playing entertaining football that people had bought into these other factors would get largely ignored.

I cannae be arsed going on Wednesday night but will cos I’ve got a season ticket, not a chance I’d be buying a ticket to watch us the now though if I didn’t already have my ticket.

[The Harp Awakes]

Whether Jack Ross is the man to take Hibs forward I'm not sure. Taking the poor recruitment and injuries to key players out of the equation, there's certainly no evidence in recent games that the players fielded are busting a gut for him. Everything has gone flat.

[madhatter]

He is part of the process for sure. But if his requirements aren’t met, I can’t see how that is down to him. There’s a whole team at EM who are tasked with delivering the recruitment requirements. They failed this summer.

So in other words, the whole team are to be cleared out but a key man in the process (decision maker) is kept?

Recruitment has been poor - Jack Ross is involved in that. Team performance has been poor - Jack Ross is key man in making sure players perform.

Seriously, do people think recruitment is going to be brilliant because Mathie has left?

Do people think McGrath and McCart would fix the problems in this team?

What requirements weren't met?

[Perfect Hatrick]

So in other words, the whole team are to be cleared out but a key man in the process (decision maker) is kept?

Recruitment has been poor - Jack Ross is involved in that. Team performance has been poor - Jack Ross is key man in making sure players perform.

Seriously, do people think recruitment is going to be brilliant because Mathie has left?

Do people think McGrath and McCart would fix the problems in this team?

What requirements weren't met?

:agree:

The argument that Ross holds very little to no responsibility for recruitment just doesn’t add up at all to me. There’s obviously others that also have a responsibility on that front, but he has a significant hand in what happens in terms of who and what type of players are coming in. I don’t think it’s a surprise that since we’ve got ourselves a manager with a dull persona that most of the players we are signing are of the same mould as is the football we play, much in the same way that Heckingbottom seemed to sign all a load of players from the lower leagues in England that he knew well and Lennon seemed to sign a lot of guys from an agent he knew.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Aye true. No-ones stupid enough to pay £33 to watch this hibs team.

I don’t think many would be stupid enough to pay that amount for any hibs team - including the 4 or 5 months under Lennon or the season under Mowbray.

[hibeerealist]

I think the empty seats can go down to a number of factors- including folk moaning about it not being 5-5 every week. Covid and cost (£33) will be part of the reason.


The empty seats eats are not down to Covid, a better performing team on the pitch would prove that instantly. The manager has no clue and his interview after yesterday’s game would appear to confirm that!!

[Nicho87]

I think not signing a natural left winger is part of the issue
Murphy is sick note and drey Wright is never a starter

So much pressure on Boyle and any opposition manager knows manage hibs right side and your half way there

[Danderhall Hibs]

If we were playing entertaining football that people had bought into these other factors would get largely ignored.

I cannae be arsed going on Wednesday night but will cos I’ve got a season ticket, not a chance I’d be buying a ticket to watch us the now though if I didn’t already have my ticket.

I’m not sure - if season tickets go up to reflect the walk up price next season I don’t think I’ll be paying it - even if we are “entertaining”. Covid numbers are interest- I think Aberdeen are claiming 35% of ST aren’t going due to it?

[Danderhall Hibs]

The empty seats eats are not down to Covid, a better performing team on the pitch would prove that instantly. The manager has no clue and his interview after yesterday’s game would appear to confirm that!!

When did Jason Leitch sign up for hibs.net? 😂

[bigwheel]

we are not a set of fans to support a manager and team through a rough patch are we….first real poor weeks of results and the vultures are well and truly circling .

The team and the manager have earned enough respect to give them a chance to sort it out for me .

[hibeerealist]

When did Jason Leitch sign up for hibs.net? 😂


Aye yes the jokers are out in force!!!

Arguably, the most important person at a football club is the manager.

There would be no queue of suitors should JR walk away and certainly not if pushed.

[silverhibee]

Putting £5m on his head and thinking English clubs would pay that for a young lad with 1 senior season under his belt was his problem. £2m with add ons was a very fair price for the lad and would have given us very good funds to strengthen the squad.

The Rangers are looking for £10m+ for the young full back Patterson, don’t see anything wrong in us sticking a £5m price tag on Doig.

[Danderhall Hibs]

we are not a set of fans to support a manager and team through a rough patch are we….first real poor weeks of results and the vultures are well and truly circling .

The team and the manager have earned enough respect to give them a chance to sort it out for me .

It was always going to happen - folk were unhappy when we were winning most weeks and were detracting from any achievement.

The new manager’s going to have heavy expectations on his shoulders. Entertaining football, don’t lose more than 2 in a row, beat Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and “hampden” regularly and win the cups.

[Stuart93]

I don’t think many would be stupid enough to pay that amount for any hibs team - including the 4 or 5 months under Lennon or the season under Mowbray.

But you’d have a lot more uptake if the team were entertaining than we will on Wednesday night. People just can’t be arsed watching this hibs side. It’s dull & boring.

[Keyser Sauzee]

The Rangers are looking for £10m+ for the young full back Patterson, don’t see anything wrong in us sticking a £5m price tag on Doig.

Except Rangers won’t get 10m for Patterson and we won’t get 5m for doig, it was a ridiculous price tag to put on a 19 with one season in the first team.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Aye yes the jokers are out in force!!!

Arguably, the most important person at a football club is the manager.

There would be no queue of suitors should JR walk away and certainly not if pushed.

Not a joke - just not sure how you have these stats that are directly in conflict with the Aberdeen ones.

[Danderhall Hibs]

But you’d have a lot more uptake if the team were entertaining than we will on Wednesday night. People just can’t be arsed watching this hibs side. It’s dull & boring.

More uptake perhaps but also more on the way out due to the cost.

[madhatter]

It was always going to happen - folk were unhappy when we were winning most weeks and were detracting from any achievement.

The new manager’s going to have heavy expectations on his shoulders. Entertaining football, don’t lose more than 2 in a row, beat Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and “hampden” regularly and win the cups.

More pressure on Mathie's replacement based on people's critique of recruitment.

[Hiber-nation]

But you’d have a lot more uptake if the team were entertaining than we will on Wednesday night. People just can’t be arsed watching this hibs side. It’s dull & boring.

Exactly. Can't be arsed is a common theme, fans are bored stupid with the lacklustre football. Selling £20 tickets for the Celtic game would be a struggle.

[silverhibee]

Coming down on the train last night the verdict was pretty unanimous, nobody really enjoys watching a Jack Ross team.

The current argument seems to be ‘who do we get that’s better’ though.

The empty seats on Wednesday will tell their own story.

Sean Maloney is a name I have mentioned before, this one might not go down to well but Roy Keane seems to have mellowed a bit, is he worth a shout.

[stuart-farquhar]

we are not a set of fans to support a manager and team through a rough patch are we….first real poor weeks of results and the vultures are well and truly circling .

The team and the manager have earned enough respect to give them a chance to sort it out for me .

It's true. Too many of us turn our backs too quickly. I'm guilty of this too. I lack the ability to sit through a Glaswegian sing song whilst watching a poor team being pushed aside.i can't motivate myself to travel 80 miles to witness it. I've always felt like games at Easter Road especially against Glasgow are designed to make our supporters uncomfortable. Barriers for one thing.

[B.H.F.C]

we are not a set of fans to support a manager and team through a rough patch are we….first real poor weeks of results and the vultures are well and truly circling .

The team and the manager have earned enough respect to give them a chance to sort it out for me .

It’s always been there where this manager is concerned, it’s not just as a result of a few defeats.

Whatever the reasons, quite a number of folk don’t like him and/or his team.

We looked a decent side at the start of the season but the performance and result yesterday were entirely predictable.

[Stuart93]

Exactly. Can't be arsed is a common theme, fans are bored stupid with the lacklustre football. Selling £20 tickets for the Celtic game would be a struggle.

Correct. It’s a simple formula really. Play entertaining football ala back end of 2018 season & fans will turn up. Play dire, boring & dull football and you’ll struggle to get fans in the door, which shouldn’t be the case after going a full season not getting to see the team.

Mind you, the pricing being outrageous certainly isn’t helping matters.

[hibeerealist]

Not a joke - just not sure how you have these stats that are directly in conflict with the Aberdeen ones.

So Covid missing from Parkhead, Tynecastle, Ibrox and many English grounds????

No, it’s only applicable to stadiums/teams not performing - ER, the sheep and a few others.

Appears that science is very unreliable just think about it.

[silverhibee]

We are having a dip in form. Now is not the time for panic buttons.

Jack started with the panicking with his team selection yesterday.

[Perfect Hatrick]

It was always going to happen - folk were unhappy when we were winning most weeks and were detracting from any achievement.

The new manager’s going to have heavy expectations on his shoulders. Entertaining football, don’t lose more than 2 in a row, beat Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and “hampden” regularly and win the cups.

We have an overwhelmingly negative record against Rangers and Celtic. We have a significantly negative record at Hampden against ***** teams. We have a negative record against Aberdeen and we have a negative record against a Hearts who were in the process of getting relegated or were relegated for the majority of games we’ve played them in.

I don’t think improving on such an abysmal record is that heavy an expectation. That to me almost suggests we shouldn’t expect to get the better of any of these teams/scenarios.

[Stuart93]

The big thing for me was JR banged on through the week about getting a reaction from the players after the dundee utd performance. Surely alarm bells start ringing when he never got any kind of reaction out of them at all.

[matty_f]

When did Jason Leitch sign up for hibs.net? 😂

One of the three season tickets we have in our group hasn’t been used this season and the sole reason is covid. They still watch the games online.

[J-C]

I would think the head coach (Ross) has the final say on players, we don't have a director of football who goes out and buys players and then the coach has to work with what he's got. We don't know the players presented to Ross and we don't know which ones he rejected.

[Danderhall Hibs]

We have an overwhelmingly negative record against Rangers and Celtic. We have a significantly negative record at Hampden against ***** teams. We have a negative record against Aberdeen and we have a negative record against a Hearts who were in the process of getting relegated or were relegated for the majority of games we’ve played them in.

I don’t think improving on such an abysmal record is that heavy an expectation. That to me almost suggests we shouldn’t expect to get the better of any of these teams/scenarios.

We always have had those records - it’s not a new thing.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The big thing for me was JR banged on through the week about getting a reaction from the players after the dundee utd performance. Surely alarm bells start ringing when he never got any kind of reaction out of them at all.

Definitely- no reaction at all. Really disappointing.

[Perfect Hatrick]

We always have had those records - it’s not a new thing.

No we haven’t. We’ve had numerous managers with better records than that against these sides. 2 of our 3 managers before JR had miles better records on that front.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No we haven’t. We’ve had numerous managers with better records than that against these sides.

Unfortunately the history of our club shows we don’t get the better of these teams or win games at Hampden. It’s now expected though.

[hibee-boys]

We have a good starting XI at the club, unfortunately we have very little quality out with that starting XI so whenever we lose 1, let alone 3, of that first XI we are seriously impacted. How we’ve found ourselves in that position I really don’t know. We’ve been crying out for decent quality cover in the centre of defence and attack for long enough and it’s not been suitably addressed.

We need a bench that is pushing for starting positions, not just providing cover.

[J-C]

The Rangers are looking for £10m+ for the young full back Patterson, don’t see anything wrong in us sticking a £5m price tag on Doig.

Who's also a full internationalist and playing in a better team.

[tamig]

When we win he’s a good manager and when we lose it’s someone else’s fault then. He has a team, at the moment, who are a total non entity. We have nothing about us.

Recruitment was undoubtedly crap in the summer but he needs to put a team on the park who actually look like they want to do the basic things you need to do in a game of football. We’ve got a team who just go through the motions.
I think it would be very harsh to overlook the injury situation. We looked like a good entertaining team at the start of the season. IMO at least. JR said from day 1 that his priorities were a new striker and centre half. That was before any injuries. He was left with two young loanees at the end of the window to fill these roles. The guy negotiating the deals failed to get them over the line.

[The Modfather]

we are not a set of fans to support a manager and team through a rough patch are we….first real poor weeks of results and the vultures are well and truly circling .

The team and the manager have earned enough respect to give them a chance to sort it out for me .

That’s only part of the bigger picture. Folk, myself included, have been saying since last season we don’t enjoy watching Jack Ross’ Hibs, even when we finished 3rd. That changed for a few games early on this season when it looked like our style changed and we were on the front foot and playing with more tempo and energy, that’s tailed off. We’re now potentially at a cross road where we can dig in and stay within touch of Europe until January or possibly go into free fall.

The majority of this board still don’t actively want him sacked, but neither do they have much enthusiasm for watching a Jack Ross team. It’s either incorrect or disingenuous, IMO, to talk about the last few games being the first bump in the road and the only reason the support looks to be turning.

[madhatter]

I think it would be very harsh to overlook the injury situation. We looked like a good entertaining team at the start of the season. IMO at least. JR said from day 1 that his priorities were a new striker and centre half. That was before any injuries. He was left with two young loanees at the end of the window to fill these roles. The guy negotiating the deals failed to get them over the line.

What is this "he was left with", Mathie really is the pantomime villain isn't he?

You think James Scott and Nathan Wood were just dumped on Jack Ross?

Jack Ross has also routinely said he was happy with his squad.

The guy responsible for putting out an entertaining, front-footed, winning team has failed to do that. Sorry, is Mathie the only failure we can talk about?

[jeffers]

That’s only part of the bigger picture. Folk, myself included, have been saying since last season we don’t enjoy watching Jack Ross’ Hibs, even when we finished 3rd. That changed for a few games early on this season when it looked like our style changed and we were on the front foot and playing with more tempo and energy, that’s tailed off. We’re now potentially at a cross road where we can dig in and stay within touch of Europe until January or possibly go into free fall.

The majority of this board still don’t actively want him sacked, but neither do they have much enthusiasm for watching a Jack Ross team. It’s either incorrect or disingenuous, IMO, to talk about the last few games being the first bump in the road and the only reason the support looks to be turning.

Agree with every word.

[Perfect Hatrick]

Unfortunately the history of our club shows we don’t get the better of these teams or win games at Hampden. It’s now expected though.

History also shows we rarely finish third. Or even fourth. It also shows we regularly got pumped in Europe. It doesn’t mean we just have to sit here and accept the same going forward because that’s what Rowan Vine and Tudor-Jones managed to deliver 8 years ago.

We’re a different animal now and in a much better position to push on than we have been previously. Suggesting that our historical failures mean it’s unreasonable to expect better going forward doesn’t really make any sense to me.

[Danderhall Hibs]

History also shows we rarely finish third. Or even fourth. It also shows we regularly got pumped in Europe. It doesn’t mean we just have to sit here and accept the same going forward because that’s what Rowan Vine and Tudor-Jones managed to deliver 8 years ago.

We’re a different animal now and in a much better position to push on than we have been previously.

In what way are we a different animal?

And although OTJ and Vine played in Europe for us I don’t think it was due to league placing or even being in the losing cup final team.

[B.H.F.C]

I think it would be very harsh to overlook the injury situation. We looked like a good entertaining team at the start of the season. IMO at least. JR said from day 1 that his priorities were a new striker and centre half. That was before any injuries. He was left with two young loanees at the end of the window to fill these roles. The guy negotiating the deals failed to get them over the line.

You can’t overlook the injury situation but you’re playing a team yesterday who haven’t won in 10, have Scott Brown playing at centre half for an hour and Ojo playing at right back. Everybody has injury problems at times. He needs to get more from the players he does have, a bit of energy and enthusiasm for starters.

[Alfred E Newman]

The awful cup final performance knocked the stuffing out of a lot of supporters and despite a good number of us renewing our season tickets, a drop in form this season was always going to raise fresh doubts among the support.
Even if Jack Ross and the team weather this storm, his next big watershed moment will be the new year derby.
Who's to say we won't pull of a surprise and make the League Cup final before that of course but on present form that looks unlikely.
I for one hope that when we get our key players back things will improve as the thought of changing managers once again and the subsequent rebuilding is as depressing as the football at the moment.

[Perfect Hatrick]

In what way are we a different animal?

And although OTJ and Vine played in Europe for us I don’t think it was due to league placing or even being in the losing cup final team.

The club have the infrastructure in place now that we never had before. We’ve completed our stadium, we have our training centre, we have an owner who has publicly stated he wants us to become the 3rd force.

We’re in a better position now than we’ve ever been to push on. We won’t do that if we look back and go ah our record against Hearts and Aberdeen is always ***** so let’s just write that off, we can’t expect better

[tamig]

What is this "he was left with", Mathie really is the pantomime villain isn't he?

You think James Scott and Nathan Wood were just dumped on Jack Ross?

Jack Ross has also routinely said he was happy with his squad.

The guy responsible for putting out an entertaining, front-footed, winning team has failed to do that. Sorry, is Mathie the only failure we can talk about?

I’m not blaming Mathie. But I assume he was the main negotiator. If you believe the press, we failed to get a few deals tied up during the summer. Wood and Scott were both finalised late in the window so that smells a bit like panic to me. We needed proven players in these areas. I don’t think we’ll agree on this but I don’t blame JR one bit for our transfer failings in the summer. I think there’s very few managers with a good head on their shoulders who wouldn’t say publicly they were happy with their squad. What kind of message would that send out to the players?

[Danderhall Hibs]

The club have the infrastructure in place now that we never had before. We’ve completed our stadium, we have our training centre, we have an owner who has publicly stated he wants us to become the 3rd force.

We’re in a better position now than we’ve ever been to push on. We won’t do that if we look back and go ah our record against Hearts and Aberdeen is always ***** so let’s just write that off, we can’t expect better

I agree but a dose of realism doesn’t do anyone any harm. Suddenly expecting to beat Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen and “hampden” regularly because we’ve got big screens in and a training ground feels a big leap.

When we finished 3rd and “pushed on” it wasn’t good enough for many - just feels like we’ve jumped ahead a few steps of the journey more quickly than it takes.

[madhatter]

I’m not blaming Mathie. But I assume he was the main negotiator. If you believe the press, we failed to get a few deals tied up during the summer. Wood and Scott were both finalised late in the window so that smells a bit like panic to me. We needed proven players in these areas. I don’t think we’ll agree on this but I don’t blame JR one bit for our transfer failings in the summer. I think there’s very few managers with a good head on their shoulders who wouldn’t say publicly they were happy with their squad. What kind of message would that send out to the players?

Presumably you think McGrath and McCart will have made us a real force then?

The main negotiator does not say he was the main identifier.

You are right we won't agree if you think Jack Ross is not to blame one bit for our summer transfer window.

Message to the players by saying you want to strengthen? Get your finger out would be my guess? This isn't a holiday camp?

[tamig]

The club have the infrastructure in place now that we never had before. We’ve completed our stadium, we have our training centre, we have an owner who has publicly stated he wants us to become the 3rd force.

We’re in a better position now than we’ve ever been to push on. We won’t do that if we look back and go ah our record against Hearts and Aberdeen is always ***** so let’s just write that off, we can’t expect better

The time to push on was during the summer. We should have had 3-4 decent proven signings in to bolster the squad. The preferred starting 11 when everyone is fit would give any team in the league a good game. Beyond that there is very little depth.

[Key West]

Maybe Jack Ross should go on .net for advice.

[tamig]

Presumably you think McGrath and McCart will have made us a real force then?

The main negotiator does not say he was the main identifier.

You are right we won't agree if you think Jack Ross is not to blame one bit for our summer transfer window.

Message to the players by saying you want to strengthen? Get your finger out would be my guess? This isn't a holiday camp?

I don’t rate McCart myself. Never have. And McGrath seemed to be a last minute thing that appeared from nowhere. The whole recruitment process failed in the summer and the guy overseeing that has to be accountable at the end of the day.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Maybe Jack Ross should go on .net for advice.

Looks like he done that ahead of yesterday - dropping Wood, playing 3 up front including Gullan…

[madhatter]

I agree but a dose of realism doesn’t do anyone any harm. Suddenly expecting to beat Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen and “hampden” regularly because we’ve got big screens in and a training ground feels a big leap.

When we finished 3rd and “pushed on” it wasn’t good enough for many - just feels like we’ve jumped ahead a few steps of the journey more quickly than it takes.

The problem is we expect to lose. Club keep rabbiting on about changing the attitude and creating a winning mentality all whilst our record against our direct competitors gets worse. It's always been bad but it's actually regressed under Ross.

We've finished 3rd, we haven't "pushed on" or "kicked on".

If people think we will finish 3rd this season without a massive, genuinely off the charts, January transfer window and a total shake up of how we play (decrease the reliance on Boyle) then they really are optimistic.

Teams still know the best way to beat Hibs is to make the game a bit of a battle, get a goal and then sit in. It was the case before Ross and it's emphasised again due to Boyle's loss of form. We've had multiple windows to remedy this and we haven't. I don't have faith in our recruitment process to identify what we need.

I keep saying it but we need to have a recognisable style of play that goes beyond "get the ball to Boyle". A club ethos. I think that's a big reason our youngsters struggle to make it into the 1st team.

[Key West]

Looks like he done that ahead of yesterday - dropping Wood, playing 3 up front including Gullan…

Looking at a lot of the posts there's not much on offer in terms of solutions.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The problem is we expect to lose. Club keep rabbiting on about changing the attitude and creating a winning mentality all whilst our record against our direct competitors gets worse. It's always been bad but it's actually regressed under Ross.

We've finished 3rd, we haven't "pushed on" or "kicked on".

If people think we will finish 3rd this season without a massive, genuinely off the charts, January transfer window and a total shake up of how we play (decrease the reliance on Boyle) then they really are optimistic.

Teams still know the best way to beat Hibs is to make the game a bit of a battle, get a goal and then sit in. It was the case before Ross and it's emphasised again due to Boyle's loss of form. We've had multiple windows to remedy this and we haven't. I don't have faith in our recruitment process to identify what we need.

I keep saying it but we need to have a recognisable style of play that goes beyond "get the ball to Boyle". A club ethos. I think that's a big reason our youngsters struggle to make it into the 1st team.

I agree with loads of that. We did “push on” to get 3rd last season (even though it wasn’t universally recognised) but we haven’t then kicked on again.

Also agree on the mentality - the amount of posts I read on here last week expecting to lose to Aberdeen cos “it’s Hibs” etc are negative. Does surprise me there is as many posts about it now though given it was expected.

[madhatter]

I don’t rate McCart myself. Never have. And McGrath seemed to be a last minute thing that appeared from nowhere. The whole recruitment process failed in the summer and the guy overseeing that has to be accountable at the end of the day.

Right, so when is Jack Ross accountable? He's had transfer windows. He's obviously got players he wanted - McGinn, Cadden, JDH, etc. Yet his team is underperforming badly.

You don't rate McCart, what if Jack Ross wanted him, is that still Mathie's fault for not bringing him better options?

What are we blaming Mathie for here? Player identification or player negotiation? Or both?

I can't see a guy that talked about European scouting systems and bringing in players like Slivka and Hallberg (both largely failures granted) suddenly bringing zero options. I can see our Head Coach saying "no, I want Scottish players or players that know the league".

To me it comes across as our head coach wanting players based almost entirely in the Scottish leagues while our scouting and our owner talk about trying to widen our net to further afield. If we are going to focus on signing Scottish players we are honestly destined to become McInnes' Aberdeen.

[Brightside]

Right, so when is Jack Ross accountable? He's had transfer windows. He's obviously got players he wanted - McGinn, Cadden, JDH, etc. Yet his team is underperforming badly.

You don't rate McCart, what if Jack Ross wanted him, is that still Mathie's fault for not bringing him better options?

What are we blaming Mathie for here? Player identification or player negotiation? Or both?

I can't see a guy that talked about European scouting systems and bringing in players like Slivka and Hallberg (both largely failures granted) suddenly bringing zero options. I can see our Head Coach saying "no, I want Scottish players or players that know the league".

To me it comes across as our head coach wanting players based almost entirely in the Scottish leagues while our scouting and our owner talk about trying to widen our net to further afield. If we are going to focus on signing Scottish players we are honestly destined to become McInnes' Aberdeen.

I’d love to have slivka in our squad right now.

[jeffers]

Right, so when is Jack Ross accountable? He's had transfer windows. He's obviously got players he wanted - McGinn, Cadden, JDH, etc. Yet his team is underperforming badly.

You don't rate McCart, what if Jack Ross wanted him, is that still Mathie's fault for not bringing him better options?

What are we blaming Mathie for here? Player identification or player negotiation? Or both?

I can't see a guy that talked about European scouting systems and bringing in players like Slivka and Hallberg (both largely failures granted) suddenly bringing zero options. I can see our Head Coach saying "no, I want Scottish players or players that know the league".

To me it comes across as our head coach wanting players based almost entirely in the Scottish leagues while our scouting and our owner talk about trying to widen our net to further afield. If we are going to focus on signing Scottish players we are honestly destined to become McInnes' Aberdeen.

I’d love to know where the lines blurred as far as Ross’ and Mathie’s role in the recruitment process.

I believe Mathie was tasked with bringing in the Norwegian left back Tonnesson, also set the inflated (imo) price tag on Doig. Maybe it was just unfortunate wording on his part, but the comments about being responsible for bringing in Hibs highest ever transfer fee made it sound like it was as much about him as what was best for the club. I think he’s also being held accountable for the failure to get the McGrath deal over the line, but the fact we only tried to sign him on the last day of the window was not down to him. Ultimately he’s paid the price for those failings.

However, as J-C pointed out we don’t have a structure whereby someone identifies and signs players and someone else coaches them. I think Ross is getting an easy ride for the transfer window failure, I don’t believe for a minute he wasn’t involved in it.

[tamig]

Right, so when is Jack Ross accountable? He's had transfer windows. He's obviously got players he wanted - McGinn, Cadden, JDH, etc. Yet his team is underperforming badly.

You don't rate McCart, what if Jack Ross wanted him, is that still Mathie's fault for not bringing him better options?

What are we blaming Mathie for here? Player identification or player negotiation? Or both?

I can't see a guy that talked about European scouting systems and bringing in players like Slivka and Hallberg (both largely failures granted) suddenly bringing zero options. I can see our Head Coach saying "no, I want Scottish players or players that know the league".

To me it comes across as our head coach wanting players based almost entirely in the Scottish leagues while our scouting and our owner talk about trying to widen our net to further afield. If we are going to focus on signing Scottish players we are honestly destined to become McInnes' Aberdeen.
We could go back and forth all day. We’ve both got our own views on how the set-up works. I’m basing my views on what a guy who did a fair bit of scouting and youth work told me. He was also quite close to GM. If JR said he wanted Scottish players and they weren’t delivered then that’s a failure in my book. I believe we have some overseas trialists on the go just now and Mueller is also arriving soon. I think that would suggest that JR is open to considering players from other leagues.

[Just_Jimmy]

Except Rangers won’t get 10m for Patterson and we won’t get 5m for doig, it was a ridiculous price tag to put on a 19 with one season in the first team.100m was a ridiculous price tag for grealish. Villa felt that and that's why they put that clause in, city paid it.

We quoted what we felt Josh was worth, if someone met that he was available. No one did. I'm not interested in hibs underselling our players just for the sake of a quick buck.

It's time clubs ponied up and paid a fair price for Scottish clubs players. For too long we've collectively undersold. 2mill for mcginn still sticks in my throat.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[jeffers]

100m was a ridiculous price tag for grealish. Villa felt that and that's why they put that clause in, city paid it.

We quoted what we felt Josh was worth, if someone met that he was available. No one did. I'm not interested in hibs underselling our players just for the sake of a quick buck.

It's time clubs ponied up and paid a fair price for Scottish clubs players. For too long we've collectively undersold. 2mill for mcginn still sticks in my throat.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

I don’t want to see us underselling players either, but equally there has to be some realism in our valuation of players. Having seen Doig in the flesh I don’t think for a second he’s a £5m player, even getting half of that I’d say was a great deal. I can’t remember how long he had on his contract but is Doig so much better than Aaron Hickey, who moved for around £1.5m ?

[Since90+2]

Let's be honest we've been left with an omelette on our face over Doig. Doesn't looks anything near a £5 million pound player.

[Just_Jimmy]

I don’t want to see us underselling players either, but equally there has to be some realism in our valuation of players. Having seen Doig in the flesh I don’t think for a second he’s a £5m player, even getting half of that I’d say was a great deal. I can’t remember how long he had on his contract but is Doig so much better than Aaron Hickey, who moved for around £1.5m ?Maybe not, but maybe hibs feel if they say 5 now and don't get it, they'll develop him and get say, 4 in future. Again, if someone comes along and spends 5 then he's gone.

Keeping him for a year or two is also a better option than finding a replacement.

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[Coco Bryce]

I can't even listen to JR speak anymore. Monotone dross.

[GreenCastle]

Last few months..

Hearts have signed

Woodburn
Baningime
McKay
Devlin
Cochrane

All playing regularly and starting 11 plus a few others. Plus few others like GMS - a better keeper than ours and some wide players with speed.

Aberdeen have signed

Bates
Longstaff
Watkins
McCrorie
Ramirez
JET
Brown
Gallagher

Again making a difference- ok they haven’t started strong but mainly due to new manager but even yesterday they looked like they had options than us.

Our squad really isn’t good enough - too many players taking a wage and not giving enough back.

We could get rid of about 5 players and bring in 2 or 3 consistent performers and that would improve us.

But we need more depth - hungry players but also some experience and quality. We can’t just buy and wait 3 years hoping a player makes us money.

We have only Doidge as a target man and he’s hardly even that.
We have no left footed winger.
We have no back up right back. Cadden isn’t a right back.
We have zero youth coming through or making the bench getting minutes.
We have Boyle with speed but the rest are all very one paced.

Then we wonder why we are struggling.

[Waxy]

Time to go. Simply not good enough.

You could be sacked from starting threads.

[madhatter]

We could go back and forth all day. We’ve both got our own views on how the set-up works. I’m basing my views on what a guy who did a fair bit of scouting and youth work told me. He was also quite close to GM. If JR said he wanted Scottish players and they weren’t delivered then that’s a failure in my book. I believe we have some overseas trialists on the go just now and Mueller is also arriving soon. I think that would suggest that JR is open to considering players from other leagues.

So, is your understanding that Graeme Mathie scouted and negotiated deals and Jack Ross would largely be left to throw a team together of who Mathie brought in? I'm arguing that Jack Ross has to share some of the recruitment blame as he will have been involved. If you do not rate McCart, what if Jack Ross said "Go get me McCart" to Mathie? Is it a failing of Mathie to not succeed? Yes. Is it a failing of Ross to ask for a player that quite a few fans don't think would have improved our starting line-up? Yes.

As I've said, if we continually sign players like Drey Wright and Alex Gogic we will, at best, become McInnes' Aberdeen. Stealing from competitors lower down the leagues only works if you get John McGinn style signings that fit a specific style of play. Says it all that we signed Magennis, signed a player that replaced him (JDH), and were trying to sign his replacement (McGrath). Surprised we weren't in for Erhahon as well.

As far as I can see it looks like we are signing based on stats and data. Which is a silly thing to do, Gogic would've looked world class in the data when we signed him. Interceptions and tackles % through the roof. Is he world class? No.

How are St Mirren finding these players and we can't? They've fairly successfully replaced one of their best players with a player of equal or greater talent. It isn't all down to Mathie.

[Smartie]

Let's be honest we've been left with an omelette on our face over Doig. Doesn't looks anything near a £5 million pound player.

Our current formation seems to suit some players - it gets Boyle and Murphy into their best positions.

Other players are struggling with it though. Nisbet has been covered elsewhere but he's minging as a lone striker / middle of a 3.

I think Doig is also struggling a little bit linking up with a player ahead of him on the left. He looked miles better as a wing back with space ahead of him to attack into.

It feels very like late Heckingbottom - playing a formation that doesn't suit enough of our players and struggling for goals so much that losing the first goal kills us.

Only difference here is that I'm not convinced we've got enough players up to scratch that another manager could come in and do a great deal more with the players who are already here. As soon as Heckingbottom left Eddie May immediately got a performance out of the same players. Any new manager right now would have exactly the same problems as Ross, until Doidge and Magennis come back.

For that reason, whilst I'm in no way convinced by Ross, I don't think now is the time to punt the manager. I think we need to brace ourselves for a fair bit more pish football coming our way as well.

[Stuart93]

I can't even listen to JR speak anymore. Monotone dross.

Yep exactly this. Says the same old tired cliches these days in amongst a bunch of other bollocks. He says so much words without actually saying anything at all.

[tamig]

So, is your understanding that Graeme Mathie scouted and negotiated deals and Jack Ross would largely be left to throw a team together of who Mathie brought in? I'm arguing that Jack Ross has to share some of the recruitment blame as he will have been involved. If you do not rate McCart, what if Jack Ross said "Go get me McCart" to Mathie? Is it a failing of Mathie to not succeed? Yes. Is it a failing of Ross to ask for a player that quite a few fans don't think would have improved our starting line-up? Yes.

As I've said, if we continually sign players like Drey Wright and Alex Gogic we will, at best, become McInnes' Aberdeen. Stealing from competitors lower down the leagues only works if you get John McGinn style signings that fit a specific style of play. Says it all that we signed Magennis, signed a player that replaced him (JDH), and were trying to sign his replacement (McGrath). Surprised we weren't in for Erhahon as well.

As far as I can see it looks like we are signing based on stats and data. Which is a silly thing to do, Gogic would've looked world class in the data when we signed him. Interceptions and tackles % through the roof. Is he world class? No.

How are St Mirren finding these players and we can't? They've fairly successfully replaced one of their best players with a player of equal or greater talent. It isn't all down to Mathie.

The way it worked was two-fold.

1. JR would provide a player profile as to what he needed.

2. JR could ask for a specific player.

Recruitment team identified the targets under 1 and provides the manager with details of the players. JR decides yes or no.

Under 2 its up to the recruitment team to get the deal over the line.

JR doesn’t have anyone dumped on him. Thats not how it works. But when you get to a late stage in the window, you might just have to accept whats on offer or be left with even more gaps in the squad. Thats how I think it panned out this window. You might not agree but thats my take based on what I’ve been told by someone who is clued up on the process.

I’m not sure that fans opinions if a player will improve us or not has ever come into it. Thats down to the manager and he lives or dies by those decisions. We’ll never know if McCart would have improved us or not.

[GreenCastle]

Yep exactly this. Says the same old tired cliches these days in amongst a bunch of other bollocks. He says so much words without actually saying anything at all.

Majority of football managers / players say the same thing each week.

Folk were moaning about not getting the pre match press conference- you learn nothing except who is injured if your lucky.

Hibs aren’t going to employ a radge to go mental in a post match interview either. These types wouldn’t even get an interview.

This week will be interesting- how we play against an attacking Celtic at home and County away. We really need to win at least one of them.

[Stuart93]

Majority of football managers / players say the same thing each week.

Folk were moaning about not getting the pre match press conference- you learn nothing except who is injured if your lucky.

Hibs aren’t going to employ a radge to go mental in a post match interview either. These types wouldn’t even get an interview.

This week will be interesting- how we play against an attacking Celtic at home and County away. We really need to win at least one of them.

Yet hibs employed Neil Lennon who’d quite often go raj in his interviews rightly or wrongly. I’d prefer to watch them and someone with a bit passion than watch and listen to the dulcet tones of JR.

If we don’t win against Ross county you’re as well chucking the towel in. 3 points from the next two are the absolute minimum.

[hibeerealist]

I don't think Jack Ross had a lot of options yesterday.


OK Jack but it’s Ron you need to convince

[blackpoolhibs]

Yet hibs employed Neil Lennon who’d quite often go raj in his interviews rightly or wrongly. I’d prefer to watch them and someone with a bit passion than watch and listen to the dulcet tones of JR.

If we don’t win against Ross county you’re as well chucking the towel in. 3 points from the next two are the absolute minimum.
You chuck the towel in most games.

[WoreTheGreen]

Match day experience how can we improve it? Was the question asked well the “entertainment “ is next to zero the team reflects the manager pretty bland.l like Ross but the fare provided is torture and god forbid Boyle getting injured. I really think we missed the boat not selling Nisbet and Doig and I think they’re value has dropped like a stone

[J-C]

433 with Gogic playing to allow the 2 mids freedom, start Murphy on the left and Boyle right, no need to start Gullan just for the sake of it, give the lad a good 20 mins in the 2nd half maybe.

[Wilson]

Match day experience how can we improve it? Was the question asked well the “entertainment “ is next to zero the team reflects the manager pretty bland.l like Ross but the fare provided is torture and god forbid Boyle getting injured. I really think we missed the boat not selling Nisbet and Doig and I think they’re value has dropped like a stone

They're playing badly in bad team performances. You can't expect them to do it in their own just because the club has stuck eyebrow raising fees on them. Obviously if we're sitting third and grinding out wins then everyone looks better for it.

It is up to Jack Ross and all to get them motoring again. Not just our 'names' but everyone. Thinking that things would be improved by having money in the bank and a lack of our top players is madness.

[GreenCastle]

Yet hibs employed Neil Lennon who’d quite often go raj in his interviews rightly or wrongly. I’d prefer to watch them and someone with a bit passion than watch and listen to the dulcet tones of JR.

If we don’t win against Ross county you’re as well chucking the towel in. 3 points from the next two are the absolute minimum.

Lennon sometimes had reason to go radge but the fact is he had been very successful - was available and Hibs needed a winner.

We have gone back to being vanilla / soft with players and manager.

I started a thread few seasons ago..pace - energy - width. We had it for a while but we have gone back to be slow / predictable and narrow if Boyle doesn’t get service / isn’t double marked on the right. We rarely score from the left side of the pitch.

[Nicho87]

Macey
McGinn Mcgregor Hanlon
Cadden Gogic JDH Doig
Allan Murphy
Boyle

[tamig]

Lennon sometimes had reason to go radge but the fact is he had been very successful - was available and Hibs needed a winner.

We have gone back to being vanilla / soft with players and manager.

I started a thread few seasons ago..pace - energy - width. We had it for a while but we have gone back to be slow / predictable and narrow if Boyle doesn’t get service / isn’t double marked on the right. We rarely score from the left side of the pitch.
Lennon proved his born winner credentials in his last spell at Celtic right enough. He’d lost the plot in his last 6 months at Hibs and it was a disaster.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Lennon proved his born winner credentials in his last spell at Celtic right enough. He’d lost the plot in his last 6 months at Hibs and it was a disaster.


finished on a sour note but still gave me one of my most enjoyable celebrations at ER for a few years with this..... :greengrin also the 'cupping' of the ears at Mordor




https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/05/nintchdbpict000405792080-e1526240514425.jpg

[StevesFamau5]

Are we again going down the Lennon circus route again? Yes, we had some good moments under his tenure but he's a loose cannon and I don't want him anywhere near Hibs.

If Ross does leave which unless he goes through Christmas with nae wins I don't see happening quickly, surely we need someone who is A. Good man manager, stands with his players etc. B. Not afraid to say it as it is and drill into the players that they have to give 110% every week or see ya.

Unfortunately this won't happen as it never does. So let's just hope Ross can turn it round.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

[Just_Jimmy]

finished on a sour note but still gave me one of my most enjoyable celebrations at ER for a few years with this..... :greengrin also the 'cupping' of the ears at Mordor




https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/05/nintchdbpict000405792080-e1526240514425.jpgWhich was born from his hatred of rangers rather than his commitment or love of hibs.

Still, we played cracking football.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[truehibernian]

Under 18's seem to be flying and for me, and admittedly I'm more of a 'promote youth' advocate, I can't see why when we have injuries and suspensions, and need to reward their current good efforts, we don't at least get a couple into the team/squad on match days. There would be no more of a buzz for young Laidlaw for example getting a start. Forget pre-season run outs, if you're giving them that time then you clearly see they have something to offer, especially when down to the bare bones.

Really irks me when I hear coaches say they are 'protecting them' or 'they need development' - we've just bought a 19 year old from Raith Rovers who will go into the squad in January. Give these young players the reward they merit and give them a chance. Might serve to buck up the ideas of other more senior players and the crowd tend to be more forgiving and receptive when they are given a chance.

[heretoday]

It's a bit early to start calling for JR to go. Hibs are uninspiring to watch though. So are most teams in Scotland.

[tamig]

finished on a sour note but still gave me one of my most enjoyable celebrations at ER for a few years with this..... :greengrin also the 'cupping' of the ears at Mordor




https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/05/nintchdbpict000405792080-e1526240514425.jpg
I loved some of the times under him but it unfolded very badly.

[Moulin Yarns]

I mentioned it last week, and I'll come back to it again, is there possibly something wrong behind the scenes?

We were flying for the first 30 minutes against The Rangers, but since then there has hardly been a performance worth applauding, why? the same players in the main but they appear to have downed tools. I just don't understand it.

[GordonHFC]

I think the point I'm making is simple. Our inability to get the right players in during transfer windows will not suddenly be fixed now that Mathie is gone. Some seem to think that our January window is going to be a belter.

100%. Hibs have a profile of players for each position. Bottom line is that Hibs sign nobody without the head coach's approval.

[MWHIBBIES]

finished on a sour note but still gave me one of my most enjoyable celebrations at ER for a few years with this..... :greengrin also the 'cupping' of the ears at Mordor




Aye. bottled a 3-0 lead. Class celebrations.


Lennon sometimes had reason to go radge but the fact is he had been very successful - was available and Hibs needed a winner.

We have gone back to being vanilla / soft with players and manager.

I started a thread few seasons ago..pace - energy - width. We had it for a while but we have gone back to be slow / predictable and narrow if Boyle doesn’t get service / isn’t double marked on the right. We rarely score from the left side of the pitch.
Lennon didn't make Hibs harder and he wasn't a winner. No facts whatsoever to support that rubbish. He won nothing, lost multiple times to rubbish Hearts teams, didn't beat St Johnstone once, awful record against Aberdeen, left us in trouble with a much poorer squad that he inherited.

[hibeerealist]

I don't think Jack Ross had a lot of options yesterday.


OK Jack but it’s Ron you need to convince

[Stuart93]

You chuck the towel in most games.

A bit like the team just now eh

[GreenCastle]

Lennon proved his born winner credentials in his last spell at Celtic right enough. He’d lost the plot in his last 6 months at Hibs and it was a disaster.

This is true but we definitely were a stronger team and mentally tougher than we are now.

We have a soft core with an unbalanced squad.

[WhileTheChief..]

finished on a sour note but still gave me one of my most enjoyable celebrations at ER for a few years with this..... :greengrin also the 'cupping' of the ears at Mordor




https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/05/nintchdbpict000405792080-e1526240514425.jpg

It was brilliant fun going to ER back then.

Natural Order game was the most enjoyable I’ve been to in years. Not had anything close to that since Lennon left.

I’d love a fraction of the passion shown that night, place was bouncing.

[madhatter]

Players attitudes tell a story. This will go one of two ways. We got no reaction from last week. We actually got worse which is hard to believe. If we are worse again mid-week and worse next weekend then I think at the very least there will be a serious discussion on what's going on.

Why does the club bother saying "best of the rest". Honestly, we can't even beat a rotten Aberdeen team. Many still go into these matches expecting us to lose.

More time and more transfer windows seems to be the call. I'm sure I've heard this all before many times. Do people think Jack Ross will become the Alex Ferguson of Hibs?

[MWHIBBIES]

This is true but we definitely were a stronger team and mentally tougher than we are now.

We have a soft core with an unbalanced squad.

We were a stronger team because Stubbs built a stronger team. After a few transfer windows and replacing McGinn and McGeough with Mallan and Milligan, we were worse than we are right now.

Lennon signed two players better than the ones he inherited. Ambrose for Fontaine, and Marciano for Oxley.

We lost many games, many late goals and many big games under him.

[Brightside]

This is true but we definitely were a stronger team and mentally tougher than we are now.

We have a soft core with an unbalanced squad.

That’s just utter pish.

[Danderhall Hibs]

That’s just utter pish.

I’m just waiting on someone saying “boy band” and I’ve got a full house.

[Stuart93]

I’m just waiting on someone saying “boy band” and I’ve got a full house.

We are also very boy band

[GreenCastle]

That’s just utter pish.

Constructive post / reply.

Do we have a left footed winger ?

Do we have a target player - who can hold the ball up?

Do we come back from many games after going 1-0 down ?

3 quick examples off the top of my head.

I’m not a massive fan of Lennon and I’m not anti Ross - it’s not black and white - there is a lot of grey with them both. But what’s clear is we haven’t strengthened when we had a chance to push on for 3rd again this season.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Constructive post / reply.

Do we have a left footed winger ?

Do we have a target player - who can hold the ball up?

Do we come back from many games after going 1-0 down ?

3 quick examples off the top of my head.

I’m not a massive fan of Lennon and I’m not anti Ross - it’s not black and white - there is a lot of grey with them both. But what’s clear is we haven’t strengthened when we had a chance to push on for 3rd again this season.

McKay (?)
Doidge
Twice this season from memory

[MWHIBBIES]

We are also very boy band

The Hibs.net utter baseless rubbish cliche bingo card is filling up.

Lose a match = boyband :faf:

[Brightside]

Constructive post / reply.

Do we have a left footed winger ?

Do we have a target player - who can hold the ball up?

Do we come back from many games after going 1-0 down ?

3 quick examples off the top of my head.

I’m not a massive fan of Lennon and I’m not anti Ross - it’s not black and white - there is a lot of grey with them both. But what’s clear is we haven’t strengthened when we had a chance to push on for 3rd again this season.

Lennon was and is a clown. He didn’t have winning mentality and did a lot more damage than good. He’d happily chuck players under the bus whilst letting his “own” players come and go as they liked. Anyone asking for the likes of Lennon back clearly knows nothing about football. Just my opinion.

[A Hi-Bee]

The Hibs.net utter baseless rubbish cliche bingo card is filling up.

Lose a match = boyband :faf:

Was never really sure what this was meant to represent, would it be better if we were a hard rock heavy metal type band or would it be better if we were a bloody good team that fights for the jersey and never gives up.
:greengrin

[matty_f]

Which was born from his hatred of rangers rather than his commitment or love of hibs.

Still, we played cracking football.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Apart from the time he started about seven defenders at Killie and got scudded 3-0. :greengrin

[Stuart93]

The Hibs.net utter baseless rubbish cliche bingo card is filling up.

Lose a match = boyband :faf:

Well, I did say it for bingo purposes

But I’m sure you already knew that when you seen the post I replied to

[Danderhall Hibs]

Was never really sure what this was meant to represent, would it be better if we were a hard rock heavy metal type band or would it be better if we were a bloody good team that fights for the jersey and never gives up.
:greengrin

I think it was meant that we would beat the easy teams instead of getting up for a big game then getting pumped off an easy team next time out.

[WoreTheGreen]

Lennon was and is a clown. He didn’t have winning mentality and did a lot more damage than good. He’d happily chuck players under the bus whilst letting his “own” players come and go as they liked. Anyone asking for the likes of Lennon back clearly knows nothing about football. Just my opinion.

Totally agree treating the club like mugs was given more leeway than most clubs would tolerate

[jeffers]

Don’t for a second want Lennon back and was delighted when he left. However that period after we brought Allan back, signed Kamberi and McLaren was one of my favourite periods watching Hibs. The football was entertaining, Easter road close to full and the atmosphere brilliant. Oh for just some of that under Ross.

[MWHIBBIES]

Constructive post / reply.

Do we have a left footed winger ?

Do we have a target player - who can hold the ball up?

Do we come back from many games after going 1-0 down ?

3 quick examples off the top of my head.

I’m not a massive fan of Lennon and I’m not anti Ross - it’s not black and white - there is a lot of grey with them both. But what’s clear is we haven’t strengthened when we had a chance to push on for 3rd again this season.

Did Lennon have a left footed winger?

Did Lennon have a target player? We have Doidge, but he is injured.

Did Lennon come back from behind many times? I mostly remember his team coming back and then still losing.

[truehibernian]

Did Lennon have a left footed winger?

Did Lennon have a target player? We have Doidge, but he is injured.

Did Lennon come back from behind many times? I mostly remember his team coming back and then still losing.

Brandon Barker, Brian Graham and Grant Holt, Lennon's team were like Stubbs, far far too many draws. But both had entertaining sides.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Brandon Barker, Brian Graham and Grant Holt, Lennon's team were like Stubbs, far far too many draws. But both had entertaining sides.

Picked a couple of fans favourites there.

[Keith_M]

Apart from the time he started about seven defenders at Killie and got scudded 3-0. :greengrin


Ah yes, I remember it well.

[MWHIBBIES]

Brandon Barker, Brian Graham and Grant Holt, Lennon's team were like Stubbs, far far too many draws. But both had entertaining sides.

Barker is right footed. Brain Graham was awful. Holt left after one year. Doidge easily better for Hibs than both of those strikers.

[JimBHibees]

433 with Gogic playing to allow the 2 mids freedom, start Murphy on the left and Boyle right, no need to start Gullan just for the sake of it, give the lad a good 20 mins in the 2nd half maybe.

Agree totally playing Gullan when he had not been trusted previously at the expense of Murphy was stupidity beyond belief.

[Northernhibee]

Which was born from his hatred of rangers rather than his commitment or love of hibs.

Still, we played cracking football.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

We played cracking football for four months then came Tynecastle and Pittodrie and he bottled it. The rest of the football was turgid, industrial stuff.

[Since452]

Which was born from his hatred of rangers rather than his commitment or love of hibs.

Still, we played cracking football.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

We played cracking football for half a season. The vast majority of Lennon's reign was utter dross.

[Rumble de Thump]

Agree totally playing Gullan when he had not been trusted previously at the expense of Murphy was stupidity beyond belief.

Surely if players work hard and do well in training then they deserve a chance, and other players deserve a rest now and then. It doesn't seem particuarly stupid.

[truehibernian]

Barker is right footed. Brain Graham was awful. Holt left after one year. Doidge easily better for Hibs than both of those strikers.

Doesn't matter what foot was his strong foot, Brandon was a left winger - Grant Holt was excellent for where we were at the time, Graham chipped in now and again. I wasn't comparing them to Doidge on ability. You questioned whether Lennon had a left winger and a target man.

[Jones28]

Which was born from his hatred of rangers rather than his commitment or love of hibs.

Still, we played cracking football.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

We played cracking football for a season and maybe 8 games in to the season after. The championship season while we won it was not pretty to watch, then the season he left was absolutely dire after a promising start.

[MWHIBBIES]

Doesn't matter what foot was his strong foot, Brandon was a left winger - Grant Holt was excellent for where we were at the time, Graham chipped in now and again. I wasn't comparing them to Doidge on ability. You questioned whether Lennon had a left winger and a target man.

No. I was replying to someone who said he had a left footed winger. He had a right footed left winger. We have 2 of those right now, Murphy and Mackay.

Holt and Graham were not anywhere near as good as Doidge.

[ardecos]

Sean Maloney is a name I have mentioned before, this one might not go down to well but Roy Keane seems to have mellowed a bit, is he worth a shout.

Is Roy Keane still alive after today's goings on at Old Trafford?

[flash]

Players attitudes tell a story. This will go one of two ways. We got no reaction from last week. We actually got worse which is hard to believe. If we are worse again mid-week and worse next weekend then I think at the very least there will be a serious discussion on what's going on.

Why does the club bother saying "best of the rest". Honestly, we can't even beat a rotten Aberdeen team. Many still go into these matches expecting us to lose.

More time and more transfer windows seems to be the call. I'm sure I've heard this all before many times. Do people think Jack Ross will become the Alex Ferguson of Hibs?

We certainly weren't worse than the United game.

An argument based on the quicksand of a blatant untruth isn't really an argument at all.