It's been coming. Jack Ross out.

[Lancs Harp]

Is Roy Keane still alive after today's goings on at Old Trafford?

:greengrin He'd have been hilarious in the studio today wouldnt he.

[90274]

More time and more transfer windows seems to be the call. I'm sure I've heard this all before many times. Do people think Jack Ross will become the Alex Ferguson of Hibs?

It's pretty clear he won't be.

McInnes is available just now, he is someone that has built something at a club over a long period of time, turning down Rangers in the process.

[madhatter]

We certainly weren't worse than the United game.

An argument based on the quicksand of a blatant untruth isn't really an argument at all.

We had no shots on goal against a terrible Aberdeen team playing Ojo at right back and Scott Brown at CB for a period of the game. Care to actually argue the case for why we were better?

[Brightside]

It's pretty clear he won't be.

McInnes is available just now, he is someone that has built something at a club over a long period of time, turning down Rangers in the process.

Over a long period of time. Something that a lot of our fans don’t like to give.

[Coco Bryce]

We certainly weren't worse than the United game.

An argument based on the quicksand of a blatant untruth isn't really an argument at all.

We were woeful against an extremely poor side.

[Perfect Hatrick]

We certainly weren't worse than the United game.

An argument based on the quicksand of a blatant untruth isn't really an argument at all.

I’d argue we certainly weren’t any better.

[Kato]

McInnes? A dull personality, who puts dull cloggers out on the park - clogging that no Hibs side would ever get away with anyway.

No ta.

[90274]

McInnes record as a player and manager speaks for itself over a long period of time.

His playing career and managerial career are night and day compared to JR.

We'd have a swagger about us under him and I reckon he'd be successful.

[Kato]

McInnes record as a player and manager speaks for itself over a long period of time.

His playing career and managerial career are night and day compared to JR.

Couldn't care less about his "record". He was a hacking snide as a player and put out teams for Aberdeen that would see two or three Hibs players sent off every game.

[90274]

Couldn't care less about his "record". He was a hacking snide as a player and put out teams for Aberdeen that would see two or three Hibs players sent off every game.

So, because he's streetwise he shouldn't be considered? Something JR and his teams certainly lack.

He captained West Brom in the Premier League for a season.

Aberdeen were the second best team in the country for a while and he ended up having a good record in games against Rangers and Semi Finals which are big for them along with winning a trophy, granted he should have won more than one trophy but they were competing directly against the Celtic team that won however many trebles on the bounce.

[Kato]

So, because he's streetwise he shouldn't be considered?

Something JR and his teams certainly lack.

Final response from me for you.

I know what you mean by "streetwise".

I also know what I mean by "hacking snide", "cloggers" and by "clogging that no Hibs side would ever get away with".

They are not the same thing.

Carry on pushing him for the job if you like but I, for one, would hate to see him takeover at ER.

Cheers and tara.

[Stuart93]

I see Stevenson is out in the media today (EEN) peddling the fine margins nonsense. Straight out of the Jack Ross handbook.

There’s been **** all down to fine margins in our last two performances. Feels like an insult to the fans reading such tripe.

[Peevemor]

I see Stevenson is out in the media today (EEN) peddling the fine margins nonsense. Straight out of the Jack Ross handbook.

There’s been **** all down to fine margins in our last two performances. Feels like an insult to the fans reading such tripe.

Take off your grumpy specs for a minute. Saturday was an extremely close (albeit crap) match. The result was everything to do with fine margins.

[Stuart93]

Take off your grumpy specs for a minute. Saturday was an extremely close (albeit crap) match. The result was everything to do with fine margins.

It wasn’t close at all. Aberdeen sat off us in the 2nd half and allowed us to have the ball because they knew we weren’t going to hurt them.

Did you see the state of their defence when they finished the game? And we couldn’t even manage a shot on target.

It had **** all to do with fine margins and everything to do with us being toothless upfront. Calamity defending at times at the back & a midfield who don’t look like they can be arsed.

You can grip a hold of the “fine margins” chat all you like but I sat and watched the full 90mins & none of it came down to fine margins for me.

[Peevemor]

It wasn’t close at all. Aberdeen sat off us in the 2nd half and allowed us to have the ball because they knew we weren’t going to hurt them.

Did you see the state of their defence when they finished the game? And we couldn’t even manage a shot on target.

It had **** all to do with fine margins and everything to do with us being toothless upfront. Calamity defending at times at the back & a midfield who don’t look like they can be arsed.

You can grip a hold of the “fine margins” chat all you like but I sat and watched the full 90mins & none of it came down to fine margins

Were we gubbed? Were they all over us? Apart from a wee period after they scored, did they ever really control the game?

It was close, you just don't want to see or admit it.

[Yorkshire HFC]

It wasn’t close at all. Aberdeen sat off us in the 2nd half and allowed us to have the ball because they knew we weren’t going to hurt them.

Did you see the state of their defence when they finished the game? And we couldn’t even manage a shot on target.

It had **** all to do with fine margins and everything to do with us being toothless upfront. Calamity defending at times at the back & a midfield who don’t look like they can be arsed.

You can grip a hold of the “fine margins” chat all you like but I sat and watched the full 90mins & none of it came down to fine margins for me.

What is it that you think Hibs owe you? They're just a bunch of talented people doing a job the best they can. They don't owe the fans anything.

[matty_f]

It wasn’t close at all. Aberdeen sat off us in the 2nd half and allowed us to have the ball because they knew we weren’t going to hurt them.

Did you see the state of their defence when they finished the game? And we couldn’t even manage a shot on target.

It had **** all to do with fine margins and everything to do with us being toothless upfront. Calamity defending at times at the back & a midfield who don’t look like they can be arsed.

You can grip a hold of the “fine margins” chat all you like but I sat and watched the full 90mins & none of it came down to fine margins for me.

Aberdeen had 2 attempts on target and scored with 1 of them.

Folk get humpty about the phrase “fine margins” but there was very little between the two teams on Saturday - they were both brutal.

[bingo70]

Aberdeen had 2 attempts on target and scored with 1 of them.

Folk get humpty about the phrase “fine margins” but there was very little between the two teams on Saturday - they were both brutal.

For me, the fine margins comment after the cup game against Hearts last season was fair. We missed a penalty, hit the post I think and Gordon made some ridiculous saves. That’s fine margins and fair comment at the time.

I think a game where we can’t keep a clean sheet or muster a shot on target isn’t really a fine margins type game. They were on a terrible run of form so I can quite believe they gave up territory and possession to just try and see the game out.

Just my opinion though.

[Pretty Boy]

For me, the fine margins comment after the cup game against Hearts last season was fair. We missed a penalty, hit the post I think and Gordon made some ridiculous saves. That’s fine margins and fair comment at the time.

I think a game where we can’t keep a clean sheet or muster a shot on target isn’t really a fine margins type game. They were on a terrible run of form so I can quite believe they gave up territory and possession to just try and see the game out.

Just my opinion though.

I think Saturday was quite similar to a lot of games against them when McIness was boss.

They got the goal, sat off and basically said break us down if you can. It made a lot of games against them appear closer than they were because they gave up a lot of territory and possesion. The game when they went 2-0 up after about 20 minutes fairly recently springs to mind. I think we had about 65% possesion after that but we certainly weren't dominant. They trusted their defence to see it out. I'm not sure the margins were ever that fine.

They were a better team then of course. On Saturday I think fine margins isn't that wide off the mark tbh. They were brutal and scored. We were brutal and didn't. I didn't ever feel they were rocking and likely to concede an equaliser, equally I didn't ever feel they looked like killing us off completely either. It was just a really pish game of football.

[Smartie]

Were we gubbed? Were they all over us? Apart from a wee period after they scored, did they ever really control the game?

It was close, you just don't want to see or admit it.

Do you think close games against pish teams is good enough though?

On an individual game basis, we were rarely pumped under Butcher. We'd start games tentatively, struggle to create, lose the first goal then struggle to get back into the game. Fine margins, losing by the odd goal but losing every week. That team is slaughtered - correctly - for being awful.

Just because it wasn't a pumping doesn't mean it was acceptable. It actually did come down to fine margins but that's just not good enough. We were beaten as soon as we'd lost the first goal against a team who were struggling badly themselves. They were quite comfortable.

Although - Stevenson and Ross are arguably saying the right things as we don't want the confidence to be damaged by our own boss and senior player the same way it has been in the past by the likes of Butcher or Lennon.

[Key West]

I can't take anyone seriously that uses the word 'and' 4 times in the one sentence, and fails to use any punctuation at the same time.

Oh dear, tut tut........

[Stuart93]

What is it that you think Hibs owe you? They're just a bunch of talented people doing a job the best they can. They don't owe the fans anything.

They don’t owe anything to the fans who travel length and breadth of the country paying hundreds in the process to see them? I disagree with that. They owe us a performance every time they play. Doing the best job they can? They certainly haven’t been in the past 2 games. If getting humped 3-0 from Dundee Utd at home is them doing the best they can I’d hate to see their worst.

[90274]

Like others, "Fine Margins" and "Small Margins" chat after defeats really does irritate me.

It comes across as soft and justifying a defeat.

These terms are being used too often by our players and coaches IMO. Just come out and say we weren't good enough and will work to get it right.

It is a competitive sport, you have to want it more than the opposition and you are out to win football matches.

[southern hibby]

We have an overwhelmingly negative record against Rangers and Celtic. We have a significantly negative record at Hampden against ***** teams. We have a negative record against Aberdeen and we have a negative record against a Hearts who were in the process of getting relegated or were relegated for the majority of games we’ve played them in.

I don’t think improving on such an abysmal record is that heavy an expectation. That to me almost suggests we shouldn’t expect to get the better of any of these teams/scenarios.

Nailed it 100% for me.

GGTTH

[Yorkshire HFC]

They don’t owe anything to the fans who travel length and breadth of the country paying hundreds in the process to see them? I disagree with that. They owe us a performance every time they play. Doing the best job they can? They certainly haven’t been in the past 2 games. If getting humped 3-0 from Dundee Utd at home is them doing the best they can I’d hate to see their worst.

It's sport - nothing is guaranteed - that's why it's so popular.

Hibs have no divine right to beat anyone. Just stick with it and see what happens - there's nothing you can do to influence the outcome.

I certainly don't think going on the website and slating players / demanding that the manager gets sacked helps the situation. Weren't we debating footballers mental health a few days ago?

[bingo70]

It's sport - nothing is guaranteed - that's why it's so popular.

Hibs have no divine right to beat anyone. Just stick with it and see what happens - there's nothing you can do to influence the outcome.

I certainly don't think going on the website and slating players / demanding that the manager gets sacked helps the situation. Weren't we debating footballers mental health a few days ago?

I’m not sure you’re really getting the point of a fans forum 😉 😂

If everybody just said there’s no point debating anything as you can’t change it and you can’t criticise players then I’m not sure what people would say on this board.

Now and again come on and say we’re brilliant?

[Peevemor]

Do you think close games against pish teams is good enough though?

On an individual game basis, we were rarely pumped under Butcher. We'd start games tentatively, struggle to create, lose the first goal then struggle to get back into the game. Fine margins, losing by the odd goal but losing every week. That team is slaughtered - correctly - for being awful.

Just because it wasn't a pumping doesn't mean it was acceptable. It actually did come down to fine margins but that's just not good enough. We were beaten as soon as we'd lost the first goal against a team who were struggling badly themselves. They were quite comfortable.

Although - Stevenson and Ross are arguably saying the right things as we don't want the confidence to be damaged by our own boss and senior player the same way it has been in the past by the likes of Butcher or Lennon.

Where did I say it was good enough or acceptable?

I said it was crap but close.

[Key West]

It's sport - nothing is guaranteed - that's why it's so popular.

Hibs have no divine right to beat anyone. Just stick with it and see what happens - there's nothing you can do to influence the outcome.

I certainly don't think going on the website and slating players / demanding that the manager gets sacked helps the situation. Weren't we debating footballers mental health a few days ago?

Being realistic has no place on this forum, there's hardly anything between all the teams in terms of quality, even The Rangers and Celtic struggle at times.
Improving is a slow process and when some of your key players are out it's one step forward three steps back.

[Brooster]

In no way am I defending Saturday's performance but I can see where the fine margins chat is coming from in that on the balance of play, possession, performance and chances I think a draw would've been a fair result.

[Perfect Hatrick]

In no way am I defending Saturday's performance but I can see where the fine margins chat is coming from in that on the balance of play, possession, performance and chances I think a draw would've been a fair result.

I wouldn’t disagree massively with that. I think it’s a bit ill judged to say it when the performance was abysmal though.

[matty_f]

I wouldn’t disagree massively with that. I think it’s a bit ill judged to say it when the performance was abysmal though.

Only if you’re having to take into about the sensitive nature of folk who are intent on having a tantrum at the slightest thing.

Saying a game involved fine margins when the fans involved fine margins is perfectly reasonable.

[Hibernian Verse]

It wasn’t close at all. Aberdeen sat off us in the 2nd half and allowed us to have the ball because they knew we weren’t going to hurt them.

Did you see the state of their defence when they finished the game? And we couldn’t even manage a shot on target.

It had **** all to do with fine margins and everything to do with us being toothless upfront. Calamity defending at times at the back & a midfield who don’t look like they can be arsed.

You can grip a hold of the “fine margins” chat all you like but I sat and watched the full 90mins & none of it came down to fine margins for me.

Have you thought about taking up Yoga and/or meditation?

[Stevie Reid]

Do you think close games against pish teams is good enough though?

On an individual game basis, we were rarely pumped under Butcher. We'd start games tentatively, struggle to create, lose the first goal then struggle to get back into the game. Fine margins, losing by the odd goal but losing every week. That team is slaughtered - correctly - for being awful.

Just because it wasn't a pumping doesn't mean it was acceptable. It actually did come down to fine margins but that's just not good enough. We were beaten as soon as we'd lost the first goal against a team who were struggling badly themselves. They were quite comfortable.

Although - Stevenson and Ross are arguably saying the right things as we don't want the confidence to be damaged by our own boss and senior player the same way it has been in the past by the likes of Butcher or Lennon.


Your memory is being far too kind to Butcher. In terms of league business, he was in charge of us for 25 SPL matches and two playoff games - he lost 14 of them. Eight of them were by more than a goal. We failed to score in 13 of the games that he was in charge of.

I appreciate that you're trying to make a broader point about the fine margins chat, but bringing Butcher (win ratio - 21%; loss ratio - 52%) into a conversation about Jack Ross (win ratio - 51%; loss ratio - 28%) at this stage in his tenure is a bit much. No doubt we are in a precarious position at the moment, and we have an uphill task to avoid a fourth straight defeat on Wednesday - and that a real slump could potentially follow if we were to lose again. However, the difference in quality from that 2014 disaster to now is vast, and Ross has always found a way to reverse these mini collapses quickly in the past.

It's truly amazing the difference a few weeks makes - until the Porteous red card, things were looking great for us. At the end of August, many were heralding Aberdeen as being a great example of good work in the transfer window - now we're getting slaughtered for losing to them at Pittodrie by a goal to nil.

[Greencore]

We have pretty much has the same defence for 5 years. Crazy stat.

[Stuart93]

It's sport - nothing is guaranteed - that's why it's so popular.

Hibs have no divine right to beat anyone. Just stick with it and see what happens - there's nothing you can do to influence the outcome.

I certainly don't think going on the website and slating players / demanding that the manager gets sacked helps the situation. Weren't we debating footballers mental health a few days ago?

So having the opinion that the players are not playing to the best of their ability is now being taken as abuse that will affect their mental health? Away yi go. Fans are allowed opinions on players performances and you’re very wide of the mark if you’re taking that as abuse.

I’ve not even called for the manager to be sacked either so you’re making things up now. I’m not his biggest fan but don’t think he should be sacked.

[Perfect Hatrick]

Only if you’re having to take into about the sensitive nature of folk who are intent on having a tantrum at the slightest thing.

Saying a game involved fine margins when the fans involved fine margins is perfectly reasonable.

I don’t know if you read the whole article but he also goes on to say that if we’d got the first goal things could have been different and suggested that was the fine margin that didn’t go in our favour.

When we didn’t even manage a shot on target I’d suggest saying ‘if we’d get the first goal then it could have been different’ is a bit of an ill judged thing to say.

[Peevemor]

I don’t know if you read the whole article but he also goes on to say that if we’d got the first goal things could have been different and suggested that was the fine margin that didn’t go in our favour.

When we didn’t even manage a shot on target I’d suggest saying ‘if we’d get the first goal then it could have been different’ is a bit of an ill judged thing to say.

What's ill judged about it?

In any case, it doesn't make it any less true.

[Perfect Hatrick]

What's ill judged about it?

In any case, it doesn't make it any less true.

Because the fans are rightly hugely pissed off about the game on Saturday. To suggest we would maybe have won if a fine margin had went our way - a fine margin was never going to go our way seeing as we never even managed to hit the target with a shot - is ill judged imo.

It comes across as showing a bit of a lack of awareness as to quite how bad we were or where the issues in our performance lie.

‘If only we’d got the first goal’ whilst doing nothing all game to come close to getting a goal.

[Smartie]

Your memory is being far too kind to Butcher. In terms of league business, he was in charge of us for 25 SPL matches and two playoff games - he lost 14 of them. Eight of them were by more than a goal. We failed to score in 13 of the games that he was in charge of.

I appreciate that you're trying to make a broader point about the fine margins chat, but bringing Butcher (win ratio - 21%; loss ratio - 52%) into a conversation about Jack Ross (win ratio - 51%; loss ratio - 28%) at this stage in his tenure is a bit much. No doubt we are in a precarious position at the moment, and we have an uphill task to avoid a fourth straight defeat on Wednesday - and that a real slump could potentially follow if we were to lose again. However, the difference in quality from that 2014 disaster to now is vast, and Ross has always found a way to reverse these mini collapses quickly in the past.

It's truly amazing the difference a few weeks makes - until the Porteous red card, things were looking great for us. At the end of August, many were heralding Aberdeen as being a great example of good work in the transfer window - now we're getting slaughtered for losing to them at Pittodrie by a goal to nil.

I think we all appreciate that our best XI is a decent side but we all knew at the end of August that we lacked depth, therefore it's not the passage of time but the loss of key players that has altered the perception of us being good to being pish.

You've chucked in the usual liberal dose of stats which are fine, but ultimately meaningless. If Jack Ross had the squad who earned him his previous win percentage to choose from instead of who he's got to try to scrape wins with over the next few months then I expect he'd achieve a similar win percentage to before. Terry Butcher might, if he had Boyle, Doidge, Magennis, Porteous and more instead of the dross he inherited. Ross will do very well do maintain anything resembling his prior record with this injury affected squad, however. Well, he won't. No chance.

I think we're in deep **** personally, and those awful runs like the one under Butcher start somewhere. This has all the hallmarks of the start of something like that. Ross has normally had to rely upon some smart transfer business to get him out of these scrapes before (something he has an admittedly excellent record at doing) but he's got an awful lot of football to play before he's going to have that option open to him.

[Peevemor]

Because the fans are rightly hugely pissed off about the game on Saturday. To suggest we would maybe have won if a fine margin had went our way - a fine margin was never going to go our way seeing as we never even managed to hit the target with a shot - is ill judged imo.

It comes across as showing a bit of a lack of awareness as to quite how bad we were or where the issues in our performance lie.

‘If only we’d got the first goal’ whilst doing nothing all game to come close to getting a goal.


Ill judged? Lack of awareness?

You want to criticise Lewis for saying that it was a close game fine - fill your boots.

[Perfect Hatrick]

Ill judged? Lack of awareness?

You want to criticise Lewis for saying that it was a close game fine - fill your boots.

Thanks. Consider my boots filled.

[Peevemor]

Thanks. Consider my boots filled.

You'll be chuffed that you got the last word though.


Oh no! What have I done?...

[Callum_62]

Because the fans are rightly hugely pissed off about the game on Saturday. To suggest we would maybe have won if a fine margin had went our way - a fine margin was never going to go our way seeing as we never even managed to hit the target with a shot - is ill judged imo.

It comes across as showing a bit of a lack of awareness as to quite how bad we were or where the issues in our performance lie.

‘If only we’d got the first goal’ whilst doing nothing all game to come close to getting a goal.We were very close to getting the equaliser twice in the second half from 2 similar balls in

The fact we didn't hit the net on 1 was a fine margin and a poor finish/attempt on the 2nd

Surley a weak shot from 30 yards is worse than and shot that beats the goalie but goes just wide or a real sitter is missed is

Just because the stat shows 1 shot on target doenst mean much surely?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Perfect Hatrick]

I think we're in deep **** personally, and those awful runs like the one under Butcher start somewhere. This has all the hallmarks of the start of something like that. Ross has normally had to rely upon some smart transfer business to get him out of these scrapes before (something he has an admittedly excellent record at doing) but he's got an awful lot of football to play before he's going to have that option open to him.

This is the big concern for me. We’ve got a long time before we can get anybody in and third could quite easily be long gone by that point. We’ve clearly got issues with squad depth but we’re not getting enough out of the players we have and unless we start doing that I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if we were in the bottom 6 come January.

[MWHIBBIES]

It wasn’t close at all. Aberdeen sat off us in the 2nd half and allowed us to have the ball because they knew we weren’t going to hurt them.

Did you see the state of their defence when they finished the game? And we couldn’t even manage a shot on target.

It had **** all to do with fine margins and everything to do with us being toothless upfront. Calamity defending at times at the back & a midfield who don’t look like they can be arsed.

You can grip a hold of the “fine margins” chat all you like but I sat and watched the full 90mins & none of it came down to fine margins for me.

When Hibs do it ''we're sitting back after scoring, pathetic''

When opposition do it ''great plan, letting us have the ball because we'll never score''

[blackpoolhibs]

If you want to be upset, then anything anyone says from the club will keep your misery going long well into the rest of the week.

If you read what the manager and players say, then you might disagree but take some of what they say and see it from their point of view.

People who want to stay upset and angry cant really enjoy football, when even a winning side gets no real credit and a team going a few games not winning is slaughtered.

[Perfect Hatrick]

We were very close to getting the equaliser twice in the second half from 2 similar balls in

The fact we didn't hit the net on 1 was a fine margin and a poor finish/attempt on the 2nd

Surley a weak shot from 30 yards is worse than and shot that beats the goalie but goes just wide or a real sitter is missed is

Just because the stat shows 1 shot on target doenst mean much surely?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

I remember Murphy putting a ball across the face of the goal but I don’t remember any other so I can’t comment on the second one.

I think the stats showing 0 shots on target means a lot. It’s the only way you’re scoring a goal so I would say it will go a long way to deciding the result.

[Peevemor]

I remember Murphy putting a ball across the face of the goal but I don’t remember any other so I can’t comment on the second one.

I think the stats showing 0 shots on target means a lot. It’s the only way you’re scoring a goal.

What about Boyle's shot that was blocked/deflected out for a corner. Had the defender not been there and it had gone in, would it have counted?

[Perfect Hatrick]

What about Boyle's shot that was blocked/deflected out for a corner. Had the defender not been there and it had gone in, would it have counted?

I’m not sure what your point is, the defender was there..

If you’re trying to find ways of making 0 shots on target acceptable then I’d save your breath as I’ve no interest in hearing an attempt at that. It’s not acceptable in any way, shape or form.

[Stuart93]

When Hibs do it ''we're sitting back after scoring, pathetic''

When opposition do it ''great plan, letting us have the ball because we'll never score''

Aye but it’s not a way we’re comfortable playing because we’re not defensively strong enough to sit back and soak up pressure which is why, when we play like that, we usually go on to concede.

When a team plays that way against us, 9 times out of 10 we don’t have an answer to it

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Maybe Jack Ross should go on .net for advice.

Is there really any point in posting this on a football fans messageboard? Are professional managers the only people entitled to post on this thread?

[matty_f]

I don’t know if you read the whole article but he also goes on to say that if we’d got the first goal things could have been different and suggested that was the fine margin that didn’t go in our favour.

When we didn’t even manage a shot on target I’d suggest saying ‘if we’d get the first goal then it could have been different’ is a bit of an ill judged thing to say.

I read the whole article and, while experience probably should have told me otherwise, i was surprised that anyone would take issue with it.

It’s only ill judged if the context of everything you say has to be fit for the minority of people who will get upset about whatever you say anyway.

[matty_f]

Aye because it’s not a way we can play because we’re not defensively strong enough to sit back and soak up pressure which is why, when we play like that, we usually go on to concede.

When a team plays that way against us, 9 times out of 10 we don’t have an answer to it

What about all the times we’ve done it?

Aberdeen hadn’t won in 10 games, that suggests defending hasn’t been their strong point either.

[Peevemor]

I remember Murphy putting a ball across the face of the goal but I don’t remember any other so I can’t comment on the second one.

I think the stats showing 0 shots on target means a lot. It’s the only way you’re scoring a goal so I would say it will go a long way to deciding the result.


I’m not sure what your point is, the defender was there..

If you’re trying to find ways of making 0 shots on target acceptable then I’d save your breath as I’ve no interest in hearing an attempt at that. It’s not acceptable in any way, shape or form.

The part in bold is my point. Boyle wasn't far from scoring even though it didn't count as a shot on target.

Anyway, we were mostly crap on Saturday - I''m not disputing that.

You carry on changing user names and dragging the place down with your constant negativity.

I'm done with this.

[MWHIBBIES]

Aye because it’s not a way we can play because we’re not defensively strong enough to sit back and soak up pressure which is why, when we play like that, we usually go on to concede.

When a team plays that way against us, 9 times out of 10 we don’t have an answer to it

Oh boy, I'd love to see the stats for this. Considering we've already beat Livi and St Johnstone who sat back this season, we must've lost the previous 18?

Completely untrue mate. Plenty of reasons to moan about our current form without making stuff up.

[Perfect Hatrick]

The part in bold is my point. Boyle wasn't far from scoring even though it didn't count as a shot on target.

Anyway, we were mostly crap on Saturday - I''m not disputing that.

You carry on changing user names and dragging the place down with your constant negativity.

I'm done with this.

It didn’t go on target, it was literally never going to be a goal without doing that so I’m still not sure what point you’re trying to prove.

It could have went 50 yards wide for all it matters once it’s not on target. That’s exactly why it’s an important statistic. You’re not scoring without hitting the target.

[Stuart93]

Oh boy, I'd love to see the stats for this. Considering we've already beat Livi and St Johnstone who sat back this season, we must've lost the previous 18?

Completely untrue mate. Plenty of reasons to moan about our current form without making stuff up.

I was meaning when a team have the lead then sit back like what Aberdeen did on Saturday. We struggle to come back from behind apart from on the odd occasion. It was a big problem for us last season over the majority

[MWHIBBIES]

I was meaning when a team have the lead then sit back like what Aberdeen did on Saturday. We struggle to come back from behind apart from on the odd occasion

Pretty sure in general teams struggle in that scenario. We are not some outlier.

[Callum_62]

I was meaning when a team have the lead then sit back like what Aberdeen did on Saturday. We struggle to come back from behind apart from on the odd occasion. It was a big problem for us last season over the majorityI'm sure I seen a stat flash up on sportscene or maybe the rangers game that we were joint top or close to with points won from losing positions

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[007]

I'm sure I seen a stat flash up on sportscene or maybe the rangers game that were were joint top or close to with points won from losing positions

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

We've gained 5 points from losing positions. Beat Motherwell and drew with Dundee and St Mirren.

We've lost 7 points from winning positions. Drew with Dundee and St Mirren and lost to Rangers.

[One Day Soon]

It didn’t go on target, it was literally never going to be a goal without doing that so I’m still not sure what point you’re trying to prove.

It could have went 50 yards wide for all it matters once it’s not on target. That’s exactly why it’s an important statistic. You’re not scoring without hitting the target.


It's easily the most important and telling statistic in a game. You can have a brilliant record on shots on target conceded and the best that gets you without being able to score yourself is a draw. Without shots on goal you're simply not threatening the opposition, you can't win the game and it does not matter how much possession you have in that context.

I can live with off form strikers missing chances etc, but nothing on target at all tells its own story.

[Perfect Hatrick]

It's easily the most important and telling statistic in a game. You can have a brilliant record on shots on target conceded and the best that gets you without being able to score yourself is a draw. Without shots on goal you're simply not threatening the opposition, you can't win the game and it does not matter how much possession you have in that context.

I can live with off form strikers missing chances etc, but nothing on target at all tells its own story.

Yup, pretty much how I see it

[blackpoolhibs]

I was meaning when a team have the lead then sit back like what Aberdeen did on Saturday. We struggle to come back from behind apart from on the odd occasion. It was a big problem for us last season over the majority

According to the stats on Sunday, we were joint 2nd at coming back from going a goal behind. Pesky stats eh.

[cabbageandribs1875]

hopefully we win our next fine margin game :cb

[matty_f]

hopefully we win our next fine margin game :cb

We have won fine margins matches this season - St Johnstone at home is one right off the top of my head. Dundee United away is another (2 massive decisions in the game went our way).

[Stuart93]

According to the stats on Sunday, we were joint 2nd at coming back from going a goal behind. Pesky stats eh.

Aye fair enough, didn’t realise we’d came back from behind so much this season.

I was focusing more on last season and it definitely seemed a problem for us.

[Coco Bryce]

What about Boyle's shot that was blocked/deflected out for a corner. Had the defender not been there and it had gone in, would it have counted?

If my aunty had baws...

[Peevemor]

If my aunty had baws...

What?

[cabbageandribs1875]

We have won fine margins matches this season - St Johnstone at home is one right off the top of my head. Dundee United away is another (2 massive decisions in the game went our way).

i'm still hoping we win our next fine margin game

[ancient hibee]

Aye fair enough, didn’t realise we’d came back from behind so much this season.

I was focusing more on last season and it definitely seemed a problem for us.

Another problem sorted this season. Well done JR,.

[Coco Bryce]

What?

Your post said if Boyle's shot hadn't been blocked it would have been on target.

But it was so therefore it wasn't. Hence ZERO shots on target!! :rolleyes:

You just cannot defend no shots on target in our last two games.

[Peevemor]

Your post said if Boyle's shot hadn't been blocked it would have been on target.

But it was so therefore it wasn't. Hence ZERO shots on target!! :rolleyes:

You just cannot defend no shots on target in our last two games.

I'm not though.

[Eaststand]

The part in bold is my point. Boyle wasn't far from scoring even though it didn't count as a shot on target.

Anyway, we were mostly crap on Saturday - I''m not disputing that.

You carry on changing user names and dragging the place down with your constant negativity.

I'm done with this.


Slightly off topic, but how do we find a posters previous usernames ?

GGTTH

[Perfect Hatrick]

Your post said if Boyle's shot hadn't been blocked it would have been on target.

But it was so therefore it wasn't. Hence ZERO shots on target!! :rolleyes:

You just cannot defend no shots on target in our last two games.

:agree:

Shots on target aren’t all that important. But if a shot that was off target was actually on target then we might have scored (I would have thought that would go quite some way to highlighting the importance of shots on target).

All very confusing but your last sentence is spot on.

[matty_f]

Your post said if Boyle's shot hadn't been blocked it would have been on target.

But it was so therefore it wasn't. Hence ZERO shots on target!! :rolleyes:

You just cannot defend no shots on target in our last two games.

I don’t think anyone has defended no shots on target. I don’t see how anyone could, to be honest.

[Danderhall Hibs]

:agree:

Shots on target aren’t all that important. But if a shot that was off target was actually on target then we might have scored (I would have thought that would go quite some way to highlighting the importance of shots on target).

All very confusing but your last sentence is spot on.

This is what Pretty Boy was talking about earlier eh?

[Coco Bryce]

I don’t think anyone has defended no shots on target. I don’t see how anyone could, to be honest.

Some people seen to be straw clutching to somehow improve our horrendous stats.

You can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter...:greengrin

[BS44]

Slightly off topic, but how do we find a posters previous usernames ?

GGTTH

I'm going all-in that Perfect Hatrick was Allez Hibs not so long ago

[Perfect Hatrick]

I'm going all-in that Perfect Hatrick was Allez Hibs not so long ago

I’ll happily play the role of the bookmaker and take that bet for you!

[BS44]

I’ll happily play the role of the bookmaker and take that bet for you!

Oh damn! Then I'm due you a apology, sorry for mistaking you for someone else.

[Perfect Hatrick]

Oh damn! Then I'm due you a apology, sorry for mistaking you for someone else.

:aok:

[Stuart93]

Another problem sorted this season. Well done JR,.

“Another”...what other problem has been sorted?

[Mrimbetween]

Never get this sack the Manager after a few poor results.Still early doors for me and the financial implications alone dont make sense either

[Peevemor]

Some people seen to be straw clutching to somehow improve our horrendous stats.

You can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter...:greengrin

The point I was making was that you can have zero shots on target yet still come close to scoring. I used Boyle's shot as an example. There was also Murphy's low ball into the 6yd box that Nisbet just missed.

That doesn't mean I'm defending anything about Saturday.

No doubt you-know-who will be back soon for the last word.

[matty_f]

Oh damn! Then I'm due you a apology, sorry for mistaking you for someone else.

On that note, assuming people change user names for a reason it might be an idea to let Perfect Hattrick carry on with their new name without speculating on the old one.

[Perfect Hatrick]

On that note, assuming people change user names for a reason it might be an idea to let Perfect Hattrick carry on with their new name without speculating on the old one.

Or whether there was an old one at all..

[Sir David Gray]

I'm sure I seen a stat flash up on sportscene or maybe the rangers game that we were joint top or close to with points won from losing positions

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Results from a losing position in the league this season;

Aberdeen

W - 1
D - 2
L - 5
PTS - 5/24

Celtic

W - 0
D - 0
L - 3
PTS - 0/9

Dundee

W - 0
D - 3
L - 5
PTS - 3/24

Dundee Utd

W - 0
D - 1
L - 2
PTS - 1/9

Hearts

W - 0
D - 2
L - 0
PTS - 2/6

Hibs

W - 1
D - 2
L - 3
PTS - 5/18

Livingston

W - 1
D - 0
L - 6
PTS - 3/21

Motherwell

W - 1
D - 2
L - 4
PTS - 5/21

Rangers

W - 3
D - 0
L - 1
PTS - 9/12

Ross County

W - 0
D - 1
L - 7
PTS - 1/24

St Johnstone

W - 0
D - 0
L - 5
PTS - 0/15

St Mirren

W - 1
D - 1
L - 3
PTS - 4/15

[Tyler Durden]

All this chat about shots on target etc..... the key metric is Expected Goals XG.

I've not seen the numbers for Saturday but I'd guess that our XG was the same as Aberdeen's to a small variance. Hence it is fine margins. They didn't create masses of clear cut chances and neither did we. A draw would have been a fair result but of course Hibs were very disappointing.

Where a team needs to worry, is if they are outperforming their XG. For example if we had scored 30 yard strikes every week that could not reasonably be sustained. That's not the case. I saw a model over the weekend that projected us to finish in 4th based on the XG differentials for the season to date. You could barely separate Hibs, Hearts and Dundee Utd in that projection.

We're going through a rough spell due to injuries. We'll bounce back. Dundee Utd and Hearts are gonna hit some bad form soon, it's inevitable.

[greenlex]

All this chat about shots on target etc..... the key metric is Expected Goals XG.

I've not seen the numbers for Saturday but I'd guess that our XG was the same as Aberdeen's to a small variance. Hence it is fine margins. They didn't create masses of clear cut chances and neither did we. A draw would have been a fair result but of course Hibs were very disappointing.

Where a team needs to worry, is if they are outperforming their XG. For example if we had scored 30 yard strikes every week that could not reasonably be sustained. That's not the case. I saw a model over the weekend that projected us to finish in 4th based on the XG differentials for the season to date. You could barely separate Hibs, Hearts and Dundee Utd in that projection.

We're going through a rough spell due to injuries. We'll bounce back. Dundee Utd and Hearts are gonna hit some bad form soon, it's inevitable.
Aye but Ross out. :greengrin

[bingo70]

Never get this sack the Manager after a few poor results.Still early doors for me and the financial implications alone dont make sense either

There’s really not many people actually wanting him sacked though.

[Callum_62]

Results from a losing position in the league this season;

Aberdeen

W - 1
D - 2
L - 5
PTS - 5/24

Celtic

W - 0
D - 0
L - 3
PTS - 0/9

Dundee

W - 0
D - 3
L - 5
PTS - 3/24

Dundee Utd

W - 0
D - 1
L - 2
PTS - 1/9

Hearts

W - 0
D - 2
L - 0
PTS - 2/6

Hibs

W - 1
D - 2
L - 3
PTS - 5/18

Livingston

W - 1
D - 0
L - 6
PTS - 3/21

Motherwell

W - 1
D - 2
L - 4
PTS - 5/21

Rangers

W - 3
D - 0
L - 1
PTS - 9/12

Ross County

W - 0
D - 1
L - 7
PTS - 1/24

St Johnstone

W - 0
D - 0
L - 5
PTS - 0/15

St Mirren

W - 1
D - 1
L - 3
PTS - 4/15All we need to do is score first on Wednesday.

Simple.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Since452]

All this chat about shots on target etc..... the key metric is Expected Goals XG.

I've not seen the numbers for Saturday but I'd guess that our XG was the same as Aberdeen's to a small variance. Hence it is fine margins. They didn't create masses of clear cut chances and neither did we. A draw would have been a fair result but of course Hibs were very disappointing.

Where a team needs to worry, is if they are outperforming their XG. For example if we had scored 30 yard strikes every week that could not reasonably be sustained. That's not the case. I saw a model over the weekend that projected us to finish in 4th based on the XG differentials for the season to date. You could barely separate Hibs, Hearts and Dundee Utd in that projection.

We're going through a rough spell due to injuries. We'll bounce back. Dundee Utd and Hearts are gonna hit some bad form soon, it's inevitable.

I said on the match day thread that we have the spine of our team missing with Porteous, Magennis and Doidge. That would cause any team to struggle. Magennis has been arguably our best player so far this season. Porteous has been excellent and Doidge completely changes our attacking threat with his attributes. Probably the three players i'd least like to lose we have lost recently.

[One Day Soon]

I said on the match day thread that we have the spine of our team missing with Porteous, Magennis and Doidge. That would cause any team to struggle. Magennis has been arguably our best player so far this season. Porteous has been excellent and Doidge completely changes our attacking threat with his attributes. Probably the three players i'd least like to lose we have lost recently.

Yes these are critical players for us. The question really is what is our 'Plan B' - to use a phrase currently in vogue - when they are injured?

[Jim44]

There’s really not many people actually wanting him sacked though.

:agree: Without going into the present stats. etc., I have to say that I have no major concerns, disappointment, yes, about JR’s performance up to now and in the future. Unlike being on tenterhooks most of the time with the likes of Calderwood, Butcher and Fenlon.

[CentreLine]

They don’t owe anything to the fans who travel length and breadth of the country paying hundreds in the process to see them? I disagree with that. They owe us a performance every time they play. Doing the best job they can? They certainly haven’t been in the past 2 games. If getting humped 3-0 from Dundee Utd at home is them doing the best they can I’d hate to see their worst.

Agree with all of that. If their attitude is anything else they may as well be playing Sunday league somewhere. They are professional footballers, contracted to perform their role. Problem is, footballers generally, seem to have morphed in to a bunch of primadonnas.

[blackpoolhibs]

Aye fair enough, didn’t realise we’d came back from behind so much this season.

I was focusing more on last season and it definitely seemed a problem for us.

No you were not, you were just focusing on the negative as usual. You have no idea how we fared last season when coming from behind, just as you dont have a clue about this year either.

[Key West]

Is there really any point in posting this on a football fans messageboard? Are professional managers the only people entitled to post on this thread?

Well with the amount of expertise on the forum it is an opportunity not to be missed.

[Perfect Hatrick]

All this chat about shots on target etc..... the key metric is Expected Goals XG.

I've not seen the numbers for Saturday but I'd guess that our XG was the same as Aberdeen's to a small variance. Hence it is fine margins. They didn't create masses of clear cut chances and neither did we. A draw would have been a fair result but of course Hibs were very disappointing.

Where a team needs to worry, is if they are outperforming their XG. For example if we had scored 30 yard strikes every week that could not reasonably be sustained. That's not the case. I saw a model over the weekend that projected us to finish in 4th based on the XG differentials for the season to date. You could barely separate Hibs, Hearts and Dundee Utd in that projection.

We're going through a rough spell due to injuries. We'll bounce back. Dundee Utd and Hearts are gonna hit some bad form soon, it's inevitable.

That’s actually an interesting point.

Do expected goals stats get published for Scottish games? I can’t say it’s something I can recall seeing but you see it all the time for the English football, Champions League etc.

[Stuart93]

No you were not, you were just focusing on the negative as usual. You have no idea how we fared last season when coming from behind, just as you dont have a clue about this year either.

Haha alright mate. calm yourself down a tad it’s just a message board ffs.

Our record coming from behind last season was poor, it was highlighted many times throughout the season by both our own supporters and the media. To say I have no idea how we fared when I watched just about every game is ridiculous but then again, no-one knows better than your good self.

[007]

That’s actually an interesting point.

Do expected goals stats get published for Scottish games? I can’t say it’s something I can recall seeing but you see it all the time for the English football, Champions League etc.

I think we just measure it in chances or half chances.

Seriously though, it's something I've looked for before but without much success. You sometimes hear guys on Scottish football podcasts, like The Terrace, talking about such stats and I think they're probably using a scouting app like Wyscout to get the data. You have to pay a subscription for Wyscout but there might be somewhere you can get it without paying.

Most mainstream Scottish pundits/journalists are probably too old fashioned to be able to analyse such data so steer clear of it.

[HFC 0-7]

I think Saturday was quite similar to a lot of games against them when McIness was boss.

They got the goal, sat off and basically said break us down if you can. It made a lot of games against them appear closer than they were because they gave up a lot of territory and possesion. The game when they went 2-0 up after about 20 minutes fairly recently springs to mind. I think we had about 65% possesion after that but we certainly weren't dominant. They trusted their defence to see it out. I'm not sure the margins were ever that fine.

They were a better team then of course. On Saturday I think fine margins isn't that wide off the mark tbh. They were brutal and scored. We were brutal and didn't. I didn't ever feel they were rocking and likely to concede an equaliser, equally I didn't ever feel they looked like killing us off completely either. It was just a really pish game of football.

Agree with a lot of this, I would say though, not sure about fine margins, once they scored they could let us have the possession and we couldn’t muster anything, particularly bad against a complete make shift defence.

Absolutely zero creativity in the hibs side, that’s the worrying thing, yes we had a couple of players missing it not much different to the team that beat Aberdeen 2-0 in February. Think doidge, magennis and Irvine. From a midfield point of view we have Allan and JDH, that should have been more than enough to create a bit more.

[matty_f]

That’s actually an interesting point.

Do expected goals stats get published for Scottish games? I can’t say it’s something I can recall seeing but you see it all the time for the English football, Champions League etc.

Prior to Saturday, Hibs were third in the league for xG and xG against, according to an Evening News article.

[Pretty Boy]

Well with the amount of expertise on the forum it is an opportunity not to be missed.

It's always been the way. It's not some new phenomenon.

Forums, Twitter, probably Tik Tok now are just the 21st century version of guys in the pub who knew how to do the managers job better than he did. The latter still exist as well of course.

It really has no bearing on anything. It's a bunch of people arguing about a football team losing.

[loanheadhibby]

I said on the match day thread that we have the spine of our team missing with Porteous, Magennis and Doidge. That would cause any team to struggle. Magennis has been arguably our best player so far this season. Porteous has been excellent and Doidge completely changes our attacking threat with his attributes. Probably the three players i'd least like to lose we have lost recently.

Conversely, Aberdeen had as many injuries as us and also got a few during the actual match.

Just for a bit balance. Every team has a period of injuries throughout the season. Some teams handle injuries well.

[Keith_M]

So is he away yet?

[J-C]

Or whether there was an old one at all..


Very simple a quick look, no past username and you only joined this month. :greengrin

[The Spaceman]

Jack Ross in.

Our fans are painfully fickle these days. It’s like people are bored and annoyed due to COVID-19 or whatever else is going on in their lives, so picking holes in Hibs is their vent.

[The Modfather]

Jack Ross in.

Our fans are painfully fickle these days. It’s like people are bored and annoyed due to COVID-19 or whatever else is going on in their lives, so picking holes in Hibs is their vent.

What’s fickle about the fans? From what I can see, this thread being an example. The vast majority don’t want him sacked. Within that majority there are a sizeable number who wouldn’t be overly bothered if he was to leave though. A large number also don’t particularly enjoy the style of football from a Jack Ross team. I don’t see anything fickle or unreasonable in any of that.

[FitbaFolkKen]

I like Ross, he isn't perfect but I think he has done a good job. I would expect to see us spend a bit of cash in January as we didn't see McCart and McGrath come in which would have been relatively large deals by our standards. Doidge coming back will be good to give us an added dimension, but also give Nisbet a rest, he looks like he may need a break.

[Key West]

It's always been the way. It's not some new phenomenon.

Forums, Twitter, probably Tik Tok now are just the 21st century version of guys in the pub who knew how to do the managers job better than he did. The latter still exist as well of course

It really has no bearing on anything. It's a bunch of people arguing about a football team losing.

Yes but sometimes it's the way people argue and make their points.

[Mickey Weir]

Agree with the OP, I'm in the Ross out camp.

We we're mince at Aberdeen and if we lose to Celtic, failure to pick up a point in 4 games is unacceptable at any level. The pathetic home crowds is no coincidence, the fans are voting with their feet.

Ron is useless though and won't sack him, he's still giving himself a pat on the back over the big screens.

[CJHibby]

I wasn't impressed by JR's post match interview v Aberdeen. Moreso, his demeanour. It should've been we are bitterly disappointed with today but will be busting a gut and going to go all out to beat Celtic on Wed night and not there are a few hard games coming up...I hope he has more motivational skills behind closed doors. 🤔

[Since452]

Agree with the OP, I'm in the Ross out camp.

We we're mince at Aberdeen and if we lose to Celtic, failure to pick up a point in 4 games is unacceptable at any level. The pathetic home crowds is no coincidence, the fans are voting with their feet.

Ron is useless though and won't sack him, he's still giving himself a pat on the back over the big screens.

How have you coped with being a Hibs fan up to this point?

[JimBHibees]

Fair old pile on from guys whose profile has just been created and drop a grenade and go or only ever seen in times of crisis and eeem to know everything wrong about the team. Surprisingly absent when we win or are doing well. Very odd behaviour :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Your post said if Boyle's shot hadn't been blocked it would have been on target.

But it was so therefore it wasn't. Hence ZERO shots on target!! :rolleyes:

You just cannot defend no shots on target in our last two games.

Definitely had a shot on target v United. Nisbets one Siegrist pushed onto the post. Not saying for one minute one shot on target in two games is good right enough.

[Hiber-nation]

How have you coped with being a Hibs fan up to this point?

He isn't, got rumbled some time ago.

[One Day Soon]

Agree with the OP, I'm in the Ross out camp.

We we're mince at Aberdeen and if we lose to Celtic, failure to pick up a point in 4 games is unacceptable at any level. The pathetic home crowds is no coincidence, the fans are voting with their feet.

Ron is useless though and won't sack him, he's still giving himself a pat on the back over the big screens.


Mickey? Not David?

[Steve88]

Football fans are incredibly irrational..

[Key West]

Does everybody agree that managers should be given more encouragement and time in their efforts to improve a team?
David Moyes would be a decent example.

[Perfect Hatrick]

Does everybody agree that managers should be given more encouragement and time in their efforts to improve a team?
David Moyes would be a decent example.

It’s such a vague point that it’s impossible to agree with or disagree with.

How much more time? Do they have to hit certain targets along the way? What if a team goes backwards at an alarming rate of knots? Numerous defeats in a row?

[The Modfather]

Does everybody agree that managers should be given more encouragement and time in their efforts to improve a team?
David Moyes would be a decent example.

I think it’s a case by case basis. Should Butcher have been given more encouragement and time in his efforts to improve the team? Or a less extreme example, and probably a similar comparison, Solskjaer at Man U? I read a stat that he has the 3rd highest win % at Man U, behind only Ferguson & Mourinho. Yet it looks like he’s simply too limited a manager to bridge the current gap to Chelsea, Man City & Liverpool under their managers.

In relation to Ross, I think he probably does deserve more time and encouragement, but if he wants me fully onboard, the way he wants his team to play has to change as I don’t enjoy watching his teams.

[Badge]

Does everybody agree that managers should be given more encouragement and time in their efforts to improve a team?
David Moyes would be a decent example.
No. If Jim Duffy had been sacked earlier we might not have been relegated.

[Pilrig_Sauzee]

Have held off after beiing pretty pi**ed at the last two performances. All managers go through slumps in form, it’s pretty much inevitable for all sides outwith the OF. McInness had a few at Aberdeen, Tommy Wright at St J and so so on. I think Ross has banked enough credit to see this one through and be judged at the end of the season. So far he’s decent, and may prove to be a good longer-term manager. For me Ross in and see what the second half of the season looks like. If we’re bottom 6 come May with no sense of team progress, then he goes.

[Smartie]

Does everybody agree that managers should be given more encouragement and time in their efforts to improve a team?
David Moyes would be a decent example.

If Moyes had been sacked a bit sooner at Sunderland they might not have found themselves where they find themselves now.

FWIW - I agree with your point in general. Managers are all too often the scapegoat and focal point for failures elsewhere. When fans lose patience with a manager it makes it very difficult for a club to stand by them, even if they are not the biggest problem.

It's one of the reasons I remain behind Ross. I don't think anyone else could do much more with the squad he's got, certainly not to the extent that it would be worth the upheaval and financial cost of binning him. He probably is partially culpable for assembling the squad we have, but his words throughout August would suggest that he saw what was coming if we didn't improve the squad in certain areas and he's been proven right. I think he'll come under increasing pressure between now and January though as I just don't see this squad having what it takes to improve much. We're going to need to get Doidge back, Mueller to hit the ground running plus possibly another couple coming in (and maybe the departure of anyone who's in the cream puff and doesn't want to be here) in January in order to scrape back into the top 4 by the end of the season. And that's if we haven't given ourselves too much to do by then.

I'm normally one of the last to get on a manager's back. I wanted Miller to go long before he did. Since then, I don't think I've ever really wanted a manager to go whilst in position(albeit I've accepted decisions have been correct after they have been made). Hilariously, the one I was probably most against at the time was Stubbs, when we were cocking up league games against the likes of Alloa and Dumbarton when we really needed to be going head to head with Rangers for the league. Remember losing 3-0 at home to Morton? That's the flip side of the cup winning heroes team.

Managers do normally deserve more time than they get. But sometimes swift, decisive action is what is needed too when it plainly isn't working.

[Key West]

It's always been the way. It's not some new phenomenon.

Forums, Twitter, probably Tik Tok now are just the 21st century version of guys in the pub who knew how to do the managers job better than he did. The latter still exist as well of course.



It really has no bearing on anything. It's a bunch of people arguing about a football team losing.

Forums can be far more damaging than pub talk they reach a wider audience, that is why opinions should be more thought out, in my opinion of course.

[ScottB]

Does everybody agree that managers should be given more encouragement and time in their efforts to improve a team?
David Moyes would be a decent example.

How much time?

After 2-3 years, I’d say a manager has had a decent go at bringing in players they want, and plenty time to get their ideas over to the playing squad.

What would more time do in that scenario?

You can look at Ole at Man United, he’s had plenty time, both to shape the squad and put his ideas over and… it’s not working. The dude has peaked, there’s nothing wrong with it, it’s not his fault, but you could give him all the time you want, it doesn’t seem likely that he will get any better, or achieve any better results

Which becomes the point, is the manager / side improving? If so, then I’d say more time is fair, if things seem to have flatlined, or worse, be starting to regress, then I’d say times up.

[jeffers]

If he improves the football I think it would cut him some slack, but when you lose and it’s utterly grim like the last two games it’s harder to defend. For me anyway.

[CMurdoch]

Lennon and Heckenbottom were sacked because both were in tailspins and it was obvious to all that they were done
Ross just needs Doidge, Porteous and Maginnes back to get back on track. Mueller will add to that.
Good recruitment in the summer is the key and heavy judgement of all will begin next season.

[hibsbollah]

No. If Jim Duffy had been sacked earlier we might not have been relegated.

It very much depends if you like the guy and his style. When we sacked Sauzee after 69 days I swore I wouldn’t go back. I still believe he would have got his message through to the players eventually and we could have built something special with a genuine winner who loves the club. But patience is only a virtue sometimes.

[I'm Spartacus]

See when folk start these threads it would be ideal if the title also included V.1, V.2, V.3, V.4 ..... just so we know which order they fall in! :)

[Jim44]

It very much depends if you like the guy and his style. When we sacked Sauzee after 69 days I swore I wouldn’t go back. I still believe he would have got his message through to the players eventually and we could have built something special with a genuine winner who loves the club. But patience is only a virtue sometimes.

I’m not trying to start a debate about FS, but, although I was in awe of him as a player, his potential for managing was questionable. The fact he didn’t pursue a career in management kind of suggests he wasn’t equipped or suitable for the job.

[patlowe]

I'm obviously aware of the Alex Ferguson example/cliche but it would be interesting to know if anyone has ever crunched numbers, on a general level, on whether the "give him time" approach works, as opposed to those clubs who recognise issues and act relatively quickly. Of course I'm sympathetic with the view that it's better to give time to a manager to get across ideas and each case is different, but I'm not convinced there is any great substance behind the widely held mantra among "football folk" that it is only ever a matter of "time".

Jack Ross is a slightly different case though as results have generally been very good on the whole, and of course a 3rd place finish is a great achievement for the club. However, after two years I am pretty resigned to the fact that we are not going to be a particularly entertaining watch under Ross, and if that is the key issue, I'm not sure things are going to get much better on that front over time. In addition, he has certainly been hampered by the apparent inability to win the "big games", including very winnable ones, on any consistent basis. I highly doubt we are going to spiral down the league based on his approach and the quality in the squad, but I guess the question is whether a relatively successful grind is enough for us. I can certainly remember cases when we have moved on competent but dull managers in the past before years in the wilderness.

[Andy74]

I'm obviously aware of the Alex Ferguson example/cliche but it would be interesting to know if anyone has ever crunched numbers, on a general level, on whether the "give him time" approach works, as opposed to those clubs who recognise issues and act relatively quickly. Of course I'm sympathetic with the view that it's better to give time to a manager to get across ideas and each case is different, but I'm not convinced there is any great substance behind the widely held mantra among "football folk" that it is only ever a matter of "time".

Jack Ross is a slightly different case though as results have generally been very good on the whole, and of course a 3rd place finish is a great achievement for the club. However, after two years I am pretty resigned to the fact that we are not going to be a particularly entertaining watch under Ross, and if that is the key issue, I'm not sure things are going to get much better on that front over time. In addition, he has certainly been hampered by the apparent inability to win the "big games", including very winnable ones, on any consistent basis. I highly doubt we are going to spiral down the league based on his approach and the quality in the squad, but I guess the question is whether a relatively successful grind is enough for us. I can certainly remember cases when we have moved on competent but dull managers in the past before years in the wilderness.

I recall some analysis being done on change of managers and it was the case that it didn't produce different long term performance in the main. There will be clear examples of where it has worked or where it has been disastrous but largely little changes in a sustainable way.

With us when looking at a manager who has had 3rd place and cup semi finals and finals the potential upside from making a change is limited and the potential downside is big.

[greenlex]

I didn’t post this on the Walter Smith thread for obvious reasons it wasn’t the place. One of the most successful managers in Scotland. Some of the performances from his teams were far from swashbuckling. In particular the team that did well in Europe to the UEFA cup final in his second stint. He tended to try and play to players strengths rather trying to play a style with players not suitable to it. We should be wary of what we wish for. A lot of semi successful teams grind it out more often than not.

[ancient hibee]

Eddie Turnbull’s teams of the first half of the 1970s are the prime example of teams that were very entertaining but massively underachieved by failing to close out important games. I enjoyed the football but really wanted to win more trophies.

[jacomo]

I’m not trying to start a debate about FS, but, although I was in awe of him as a player, his potential for managing was questionable. The fact he didn’t pursue a career in management kind of suggests he wasn’t equipped or suitable for the job.


Or that his first experience in management was so bruising that he decided not to do that again.

Having appointed a rookie to the role, Hibs had a responsibility as a club to make it work. I don’t think Franck got the support he deserved and needed.

[Jim44]

Or that his first experience in management was so bruising that he decided not to do that again.

Having appointed a rookie to the role, Hibs had a responsibility as a club to make it work. I don’t think Franck got the support he deserved and needed.

Fair comment.

[Since452]

Or that his first experience in management was so bruising that he decided not to do that again.

Having appointed a rookie to the role, Hibs had a responsibility as a club to make it work. I don’t think Franck got the support he deserved and needed.

We were on a downward spiral when he took over. Not in a good place on the field or off it. Wrong time for him and a poor decision to give him the job. Probably only did it so we didn't have to employ someone from outside the club.

[Since452]

I didn’t post this on the Walter Smith thread for obvious reasons it wasn’t the place. One of the most successful managers in Scotland. Some of the performances from his teams were far from swashbuckling. In particular the team that did well in Europe to the UEFA cup final in his second stint. He tended to try and play to players strengths rather trying to play a style with players not suitable to it. We should be wary of what we wish for. A lot of semi successful teams grind it out more often than not.

I agree. Also found it quite strange as it was almost the opposite during his first time at the club. They had genuine world class players in Gascoigne and Laudrup but were beaten by some poor teams in Europe and generally underachieved trying to play how they did domestically (inaugural champions league aside).

[The 90+2]

Under Le God I genuinely think we would have been relegated. Ayr Utd was the worst display at Hampden until we lost to Dunfermline in the replay

[The 90+2]

We were on a downward spiral when he took over. Not in a good place on the field or off it. Wrong time for him and a poor decision to give him the job. Probably only did it so we didn't have to employ someone from outside the club.

GJP left us a shambles. The tank and Tony Caig as leaving gifts. We did have the wonderful Paco tho :)

[Peevemor]

Under Le God I genuinely think we would have been relegated. Ayr Utd was the worst display at Hampden until we lost to Dunfermline in the replayI don't know if we would have been relegated but we weren't playing well at all. As has been said Franck inherited a team on the slide - I'm sure the stats for McLeish's last 12 months in charge will be down there with the worst of them. I certainly don't think that someone making the jump from team-mate to gaffer was what was needed. To cap it all we lost Sauzée as a player.

He was definitely supporters' choice though. Had Williamson been appointed directly instead of Franck there would have been a riot.

[90274]

Jack Ross bites back at Hibs critics as he sends 'mediocre and average' message ahead of Celtic clash

Jack Ross insists he'll face the flak head on as Hibs boss as it's proof of the great expectations for his Easter Road revolution.

The boss knows critics are lining up to put the boot in after three straight defeats which has taken the air out of a buoyant and unbeaten start to the campaign.

But as the 45-year-old prepares his side to host Celtic on Wednesday night, he's adamant if he couldn't take the heat then he'd be working at a club with little ambition and further down the football ladder.

Ross said: "I came in here and didn’t want to be mediocre and average.

“I didn’t want to have spells of doing well and then others not doing so well. It was about being consistently good.

“I have been open about Jack Ross bites back at Hibs critics as he sends 'mediocre and average' message ahead of Celtic clash expectations here.

“We aren’t our own worst enemy but we know if we don’t hit them then we will get stick and I would rather have it that way.”

The former St Mirren boss is refusing to run from his detractors but revealed he blocks out the noise by staying well clear of all forums and forms of media.

RELATED ARTICLES
Nisbet says the mood in the Hibs camp is good ahead of their Hampden showdown
Ryan Porteous set for Celtic showdown return as Hibs boss Jack Ross fires 'open game' warningdailyrecord

He said: "To be honest, other than what I would hear in a stadium, I wouldn’t know about anything else – because I don’t read anything else. I know people say that all the time but it’s the truth.


"I’ve trained myself, had to train myself because of the clubs I’ve managed in recent times, to do that.

"It allows me to be clear-headed in my thought process.

"The criticism is a combination of things. It’s a sign of the times – and also a sign of how far we’ve pushed the group to produce decent results for a consistent period and we’ll get back to doing that. We have to believe that and show it."

A lot of work do then Jack.

[jacomo]

Where’s this article from?

Something got lost in the copying I think but the overall sentiment is right. Time to deliver.

[J-C]

All good to talk Jack, time to do it on the pitch.

[Key West]

Jack Ross bites back at Hibs critics as he sends 'mediocre and average' message ahead of Celtic clash

Jack Ross insists he'll face the flak head on as Hibs boss as it's proof of the great expectations for his Easter Road revolution.

The boss knows critics are lining up to put the boot in after three straight defeats which has taken the air out of a buoyant and unbeaten start to the campaign.

But as the 45-year-old prepares his side to host Celtic on Wednesday night, he's adamant if he couldn't take the heat then he'd be working at a club with little ambition and further down the football ladder.

Ross said: "I came in here and didn’t want to be mediocre and average.

“I didn’t want to have spells of doing well and then others not doing so well. It was about being consistently good.

“I have been open about Jack Ross bites back at Hibs critics as he sends 'mediocre and average' message ahead of Celtic clash expectations here.

“We aren’t our own worst enemy but we know if we don’t hit them then we will get stick and I would rather have it that way.”

The former St Mirren boss is refusing to run from his detractors but revealed he blocks out the noise by staying well clear of all forums and forms of media.

RELATED ARTICLES
Nisbet says the mood in the Hibs camp is good ahead of their Hampden showdown
Ryan Porteous set for Celtic showdown return as Hibs boss Jack Ross fires 'open game' warningdailyrecord

He said: "To be honest, other than what I would hear in a stadium, I wouldn’t know about anything else – because I don’t read anything else. I know people say that all the time but it’s the truth.


"I’ve trained myself, had to train myself because of the clubs I’ve managed in recent times, to do that.

"It allows me to be clear-headed in my thought process.

"The criticism is a combination of things. It’s a sign of the times – and also a sign of how far we’ve pushed the group to produce decent results for a consistent period and we’ll get back to doing that. We have to believe that and show it."

A lot of work do then Jack.

Can't see any problems with what he said.

[Peevemor]

All good to talk Jack, time to do it on the pitch.

Jack's not on the pitch.

[90274]

Jack's not on the pitch.

Can he get a tune out the players?

How will he set the team up tonight?

What is the game plan?

[flash]

Can he get a tune out the players?

How will he set the team up tonight?

What is the game plan?

Are these questions rhetorical or do you actually expect answers?

[Stevie Reid]

I don't know if we would have been relegated but we weren't playing well at all. As has been said Franck inherited a team on the slide - I'm sure the stats for McLeish's last 12 months in charge will be down there with the worst of them. I certainly don't think that someone making the jump from team-mate to gaffer was what was needed. To cap it all we lost Sauzée as a player.

He was definitely supporters' choice though. Had Williamson been appointed directly instead of Franck there would have been a riot.

I had a look, just out of curiosity - not even close actually. In all matches from 9 December 2000 - 8 December 2001 we were P 45 W 18 D 11 L 16

In terms of purely league games in that period we were P 36 W 11 D 11 L 14, which was actually a better record than our first full season back in the SPL after the 1998 relegation.

We were on a bad run before he left, he only won one of his last nine games (which was a derby, which helped a lot), and no wins in his last six. I'm just looking at the squad for that season on Wikipedia and there's a lot of talent in there - the wage bill was high for sure, but there was real quality in it.

Craig Brewster was our key player that year - we went 18 league games without a win at one point, and IIRC Brewster missed about 13 of them. You're right about the loss of Sauzee as a player being huge also - he was our best defender and most creative player.

He had to go when he did though, in two of his last three games we lost that league cup semi against Ayr, and Motherwell pumped us 4-0. He took 5 points from 33 in the league (no wins), we failed to score in six of the eleven matches, and conceded 19. If we'd gone down again that season, who knows what would have happened with the debt we were in at the time.

Williamson had nine league games - we won five of them, drew one, scored 17 goals and conceded seven (four clean sheets). It was a sad end for Sauzee, but almost impossible to argue it was the wrong decision.

[Alfred E Newman]

Can't see any problems with what he said.

The term "group" does my head in.

[Since452]

I expect us to get beat tonight considering the gulf in budgets, but if we do, i want to be able to say we left everything on the park. I'm not expecting us to turn into PSG but i want a better performance than the previous two games. That would give me more optimism for the weekend.

[MWHIBBIES]

All good to talk Jack, time to do it on the pitch.
He has been for 18 months

[90274]

The term "group" does my head in.

I think he might be the manager that talks in the most clichéd way possible.

There are a few of his terms that do my head in.

Matchday minus one.

But none as much as Fine Margins.

[bingo70]

Are these questions rhetorical or do you actually expect answers?

You’re no the Falkirk chairman are you? 😉

[Coco Bryce]

I expect us to get beat tonight considering the gulf in budgets, but if we do, i want to be able to say we left everything on the park. I'm not expecting us to turn into PSG but i want a better performance than the previous two games. That would give me more optimism for the weekend.

All we want is a bit effort and at least try!

Something seriously lacking in our last two games.

[matty_f]

I think he might be the manager that talks in the most clichéd way possible.

There are a few of his terms that do my head in.

Matchday minus one.

But none as much as Fine Margins.

Ah not that old “matchday minus one” cliche.

[Key West]

The term "group" does my head in.

Well if he's getting pulled up for clichés and grammar after taking 4 points out of 6 in the next 2 games, I'll settle for that.👍

[One Day Soon]

Jack Ross bites back at Hibs critics as he sends 'mediocre and average' message ahead of Celtic clash

Jack Ross insists he'll face the flak head on as Hibs boss as it's proof of the great expectations for his Easter Road revolution.

The boss knows critics are lining up to put the boot in after three straight defeats which has taken the air out of a buoyant and unbeaten start to the campaign.

But as the 45-year-old prepares his side to host Celtic on Wednesday night, he's adamant if he couldn't take the heat then he'd be working at a club with little ambition and further down the football ladder.

Ross said: "I came in here and didn’t want to be mediocre and average.

“I didn’t want to have spells of doing well and then others not doing so well. It was about being consistently good.

“I have been open about Jack Ross bites back at Hibs critics as he sends 'mediocre and average' message ahead of Celtic clash expectations here.

“We aren’t our own worst enemy but we know if we don’t hit them then we will get stick and I would rather have it that way.”

The former St Mirren boss is refusing to run from his detractors but revealed he blocks out the noise by staying well clear of all forums and forms of media.

RELATED ARTICLES
Nisbet says the mood in the Hibs camp is good ahead of their Hampden showdown
Ryan Porteous set for Celtic showdown return as Hibs boss Jack Ross fires 'open game' warningdailyrecord

He said: "To be honest, other than what I would hear in a stadium, I wouldn’t know about anything else – because I don’t read anything else. I know people say that all the time but it’s the truth.


"I’ve trained myself, had to train myself because of the clubs I’ve managed in recent times, to do that.

"It allows me to be clear-headed in my thought process.

"The criticism is a combination of things. It’s a sign of the times – and also a sign of how far we’ve pushed the group to produce decent results for a consistent period and we’ll get back to doing that. We have to believe that and show it."

A lot of work do then Jack.


Talk is cheap, delivery on the park is what's required.

Minimum to be expected tonight is a combative performance. A win would be excellent but would be a bonus. If we lose again and look gutless and unthreatening for a third game in a row that would be extremely concerning.

[Peevemor]

Can he get a tune out the players?

How will he set the team up tonight?

What is the game plan?I don't know. Do you think he tells them to make defensive errors, get sent off and avoid making goal scoring opportunities at all costs?

[Magpie]

Only a matter of time now I think. A loss against Ross County and Ron has some thinking to do.

[Nicho87]

Pathetic again

Time to go

[Jones28]

At least wait till the end of the game eh?

[Nicho87]

Another good reaction anyway….

[The Modfather]

I wonder if we should be discreetly enquiring about how willing Alex Neil would be to take the job before making any decision and before another club appoints him.

[Keith_M]

I'm convinced now



:taxi

[Keith_M]

At least wait till the end of the game eh?


Aye, right, cos we're gonna turn this round right enough

[Jones28]

Aye, right, cos we're gonna turn this round right enough

Be ****ing ***** if we did eh?

[Nicho87]

0-3 game over

Beat it jack

[Heisenberg]

I was convinced he’d get January because we couldn’t possibly be as bad as we had against United/Aberdeen. I was wrong. This is a humiliation.

[Keith_M]

Be ****ing ***** if we did eh?


Thoughts now, mate?

:dunno:

[Perfect Hatrick]

Sack him tonight.

[Hibs90]

Time to go. The players should be disgusted with themselves as well. Utterly abysmal in every sense of the word. Professionals just chucking it. *****bags.

[Scottie]

:taxi Bye bye Jack and take every single player with you. We’re a ****ing pub team atm with you at the helm

[Stuart93]

Be ****ing ***** if we did eh?

Blinkered

[Dalianwanda]

Blinkered

oh ffs give it a rest……..anyhoo JR your times up

[greenlex]

Jack Ross is not defending basic balls into the box for the first two. Basic stuff. The players need to step up here not Ross.

[Jones28]

Blinkered

Oh hiya pal!

[Stuart93]

Jack Ross is not defending basic balls into the box for the first two. Basic stuff. The players need to step up here not Ross.

It’s a managers job to fix what’s been a season long problem so far. He’s not even addressed it

[greenlex]

It’s a managers job to fix what’s been a season long problem so far. He’s not even addressed it

Aye maybe he should get stripped.

[Jones28]

Thoughts now, mate?

:dunno:

I think the team on the pitch need to pick up some of the responsibility.

[Stuart93]

Oh hiya pal!

👋🏼

That was uncalled for to be honest, apologies

[Stuart93]

Aye maybe he should get stripped.

Couldn’t be much worse mate

[Hibees1973]

Disorganised, what a shambles.

Ross takes full responsibility for this. Goodbye.

[Scottie]

Sellick tv saying there’s no excuse for not being 9 for them tonight against us ��

[90274]

Got to go.

[Since452]

Sellick tv saying there’s no excuse for not being 9 for them tonight against us ��

Bunch of arrogant *****

[Ozyhibby]

Getting rid of Ross would be a mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenlex]

Getting rid of Ross would be a mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very much this.

[Nicho87]

Getting rid of Ross would be a mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aye course it would be

[Perfect Hatrick]

Getting rid of Ross would be a mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There was about 7k Hibs fans here tonight. So many fans have no interest in watching his team. Keeping him would be a mistake. Jack Ross is bad for business as someone said elsewhere.

[Vault Boy]

Getting rid of Ross would be a mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm really annoyed just now, but I think I agree - only because we did a disastrously poor job at backing him in the summer. Giving a manager a squad so thin and short on quality and expecting them to produce cup finals and European football is utter madness.

Had he been backed properly and still producing these performances and results, I'd probably be in the out camp already.

[Mon Dieu4]

Tonight has tipped me over the edge, I was 50/50 before, even if we go on to win this I can't see him lasting the season

[Ronniekirk]

Tonight has tipped me over the edge, I was 50/50 before, even if we go on to win this I can't see him lasting the season

Do you really think we can go on and win this Not a chance Ross County now winning 4 0 and we play them next We appears to have gone into complete free fall

[Mon Dieu4]

Do you really think we can go on and win this Not a chance Ross County now winning 4 0 and we play them next We appears to have gone into complete free fall

No I don't, was just making a point, I was indifferent for a long time and gave him the benefit of the doubt, I keep expecting a reaction that's not come, I'm now firmly in we could do better camp and he won't see the season out

[BegbieHSC]

I could take losing 3/4 matches in a row, without calling for the manager to get sacked, but what I can’t take is that we’re a stick on to concede from a cross every single ****ing game.

We’ve seen these players adequately defend crosses before - there’s got to be something going on behind the scenes that is sabotaging this ability, and Ross hasn’t identified it - that’s what worries me. All season, we’ve been conceding from crosses, nearly every game.

I don’t know where I stand on whether I want Ross out at the moment. Probably not. I’d like some stability in theory. But I’m shocked frankly that there seems to have been nothing done about this particular defensive frailty. That’s not on recruitment (albeit Ross has been badly let down in this regard) - it’s on the coaching.

[matty_f]

You can’t keep getting away with performances like this, last week, the week before.
The defending tonight has been school level stuff, absolutely shocking stuff.

We’ve had some shan teams that have stood up to Celtic better than this. There’s no excuse.

[Andy74]

I'm really annoyed just now, but I think I agree - only because we did a disastrously poor job at backing him in the summer. Giving a manager a squad so thin and short on quality and expecting them to produce cup finals and European football is utter madness.

Had he been backed properly and still producing these performances and results, I'd probably be in the out camp already.

I think a combination of the injuries and his performance up to now will buy him time. Ron will also know what might have happened in the transfer window. If Ross has been let down on that front then it would be difficult to judge too harshly with what we have on the bench just now.

[Hibs90]

Another half time change.

How many of those had he made this season in particular.

[Since452]

I'm really annoyed just now, but I think I agree - only because we did a disastrously poor job at backing him in the summer. Giving a manager a squad so thin and short on quality and expecting them to produce cup finals and European football is utter madness.

Had he been backed properly and still producing these performances and results, I'd probably be in the out camp already.

That's where I am.

[90274]

Got to get McInnes in before the Semi Final. He knows how to get results in those of type of games. I can't say the same for Jack Ross.

[Kato]

Got to get McInnes in before the Semi Final. He knows how to get results in those of type of games. I can't say the Sam efor Jack Ross.Awright, Derek?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Hibs90]

Got to get McInnes in before the Semi Final. He knows how to get results in those of type of games. I can't say the Sam efor Jack Ross.

He really doesnt

[Andy74]

Got to get McInnes in before the Semi Final. He knows how to get results in those of type of games. I can't say the Sam efor Jack Ross.

Okay then.

[pacoluna]

The average attendance just now sums up what fans think.
Rubbish to watch.

[Nicho87]

A half arsed second half where it couldn’t get much worse doesn’t paper the cracks at all.

Players are all over the place, signs are there.

Don’t even bother giving an interview please Ross it’s too predictable now.

[Mutu]

What's his record vs Old Firm now?

Get him out. We're clearly not improving under him. Seems a nice guy but we need a shake up and he's certainly not irreplaceable.

[Perfect Hatrick]

What's his record vs Old Firm now?

Get him out. We're clearly not improving under him. Seems a nice guy but we need a shake up and he's certainly not irreplaceable.

Think it’s 18 games and no wins.

[Peevemor]

A half arsed second half where it couldn’t get much worse doesn’t paper the cracks at all.

Players are all over the place, signs are there.

Don’t even bother giving an interview please Ross it’s too predictable now.

Not as predictable as some posters.

We played a lot of good stuff for 60 minutes of that match.

Give them some credit for once in your life.

[Steve88]

Turning into a Paul Heckingbottom. Possession football, no end product...

Drop the 4-2-3-1

[Andy74]

What's his record vs Old Firm now?

Get him out. We're clearly not improving under him. Seems a nice guy but we need a shake up and he's certainly not irreplaceable.

Think it is hard to talk about improving us when missing the players we are just now and not getting players in for positions we needed anyway.

Signs tonight that the effort was there, trying to play the right way and certainly not a squad who have chucked it.

[Golden Bear]

We've heard it all before but its perfectly true, there are far too many players in the squad who do not have the necessary grit and will to win to be successful professional football players. The cup final performance against St Johnstone proved that.

[Nicho87]

Not as predictable as some posters.

We played a lot of good stuff for 60 minutes of that match.

Give them some credit for once in your life.

Credit?

Celtic could have been 6-1 up at half time and completely took their foot of the gas.

Gullan and josh Campbell only positives tonight.

And that is genuinely about it

[tonyrougier123]

We could really struggle unless we get the finger out in transfer market.we had a good start and good fixtures but chickens coming home to roost for a team and tactics found out big style.

[kaimendhibs]

Not as predictable as some posters.

We played a lot of good stuff for 60 minutes of that match.

Give them some credit for once in your life.

Gees a break. We were 3 nil down at home, then started playing

[Alfred E Newman]

The average attendance just now sums up what fans think.
Rubbish to watch.

Celtic took their foot off the gas but we were a lot better after half time. Why we have to start every game at walking pace I don’t know and why we can’t defend crosses better has to be down to poor coaching.

[Perfect Hatrick]

Credit?

Celtic could have been 6-1 up at half time and completely took their foot of the gas.

Gullan and josh Campbell only positives tonight.

And that is genuinely about it

:agree:

Nobody connected with the club from that starting line up and the coaching staff deserves anything resembling credit.

Campbell and Gullan do though and should be the first names on the team sheet for a caretaker manager on Saturday.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Got to get McInnes in before the Semi Final. He knows how to get results in those of type of games. I can't say the same for Jack Ross.

Weally?

I was supportive of Jack until now but - and whilst injuries and recruitment have not helped his plight - he has a mountain to climb to get folks back onside. In recent times with Hibs managers that’s meant living on borrowed time.

I did feel before the semi against St Johnstone that that think called charisma was the difference - it can make the world of difference and good to average players will end up running through brick walls for you. I’m not sure I can see much evidence of that for Jack Ross.

The players and management must standup and be counted. Not good enough in my book.

But McInnes is a no from me. Whilst yet again (after witnessing first hand the ‘Smithy must go’ nonesense when he took them to a bawshair of the title fickleness and the resulting revolving door of the Dons support) we need to be careful what we wish for I’ve no appetite for Del.

I’d maybe even venture so far as observing that Ross’ charisma is at odds with that of our owner. Whilst charisma along does not a manager make - its a hugely advantageous trait for a managers to have.

[NC1875]

Not as predictable as some posters.

We played a lot of good stuff for 60 minutes of that match.

Give them some credit for once in your life.

Once Celtic had the game won and dropped down 3 gears 😂

You want people to give them credit after a 3-1 defeat ?

[heretoday]

Hibs finished well but what on earth was in their heads when they started the match? That sort of inconsistency is no good. We've seen it all before.

[mcfly]

There was about 7k Hibs fans here tonight. So many fans have no interest in watching his team. Keeping him would be a mistake. Jack Ross is bad for business as someone said elsewhere.

Fans have given up on him.
Football is boring.
He has no plan b
Teams have sussed how to play us…..stop Boyle.

Team needs serious investment as we are rubbish

[Peevemor]

Once Celtic had the game won and dropped down 3 gears [emoji23]

You want people to give them credit after a 3-1 defeat ?Acknowledging that they played fairly well for 60 minutes. Take that into the match against County and we should be fine.

[Stuart93]

I wasn’t actively looking for him to be sacked but think his times up

[Paloschi]

Can anyone on here seriously remember a great Jack Ross moment? Apart from an away win at Hearts (a terrible Hearts team adjusting to Stendel) I can’t think of any! Stubbs delivered a cup and many derby wins, Lennon too got us up and we played some great football beating Celtic and Rangers. Even Hecky got us a win at Tynie and he was appalling.

Jack has a terrible record in big games, no real style or identity in our play and his signings are questionable at best. He has to go. We are slipping towards bottom 6 worse than mediocre fast. He has also had plenty money to spend to shape his team. Total uninspiring imposter GTF.

[Nicho87]

Gordon will be having conversations now with chief executive surely.

Can’t have a master plan of cups and being on top 4 year after year

Dropping attendances
Lack of quality on the park
Dis-engagement between fans / club / manager
There is no buzz / excitement at Easter road
Fans calling for change getting stronger

[WhileTheChief..]

I'd stick with him.

I still like him despite the results and performances. I think it's more on the players than him this time.

With Heckingbottom, i never felt he had a clue what he was doing. With JR, i think we have someone with a decent plan that is struggling due to the lack of quality available to him.

We're kidding ourselves on if we think it will be fixed in January though. We've gone from needing a couple of quality additions to practically needing a total rebuild.

Maybe doesn't make much sense but I'd wait until this time next year and see were we are.

This season is a write off already.

[NC1875]

Everything about us just now is boring.

Low attendance
Crap atmosphere
Crap performances

And the biggest bore of all. Jack Ross

[Stuart93]

I'd stick with him.

I still like him despite the results and performances. I think it's more on the players than him this time.

With Heckingbottom, i never felt he had a clue what he was doing. With JR, i think we have someone with a decent plan that is struggling due to the lack of quality available to him.

We're kidding ourselves on if we think it will be fixed in January though. We've gone from needing a couple of quality additions to practically needing a total rebuild.

Maybe doesn't make much sense but I'd wait until this time next year and see were we are.

This season is a write off already.

Any chance of me getting a refund on my season ticket then if that’s the season written off already in October.

What a load of *****.

[madhatter]

The performances of some senior pros needs to be questioned the most.

Our 2nd half performance essentially came when the shackles were taken off and it peaked when Murphy and Nisbet went off as we had more legs. We pressed and actually committed fouls if needed, just get a tackle in ffs...

Murphy was playing well though so was unfortunate to some extent. Just doesn't give us a pressing intensity though.

The drop off in form of Gogic, Nisbet, Hanlon, Newell...almost the entire team, obviously a few with exceptional drop offs is ridiculous. We have senior pros not doing the basics right and in Nisbet's case he looks like he can't be bothered.

Have no idea who is giving Gogic instructions as he clearly isn't sitting in front of the back 4 which is his strength. We got ripped apart in the 1st half because Gogic, Newell and JDH seemed to be rotating the press onto McGregor and they were hopeless at it, didn't shield the defence and didn't track the runners. Left massive gaps and Gogic had to foul Rogic a few times because he didn't sit and was too far forward.

Lose to Ross County and we will be in deep trouble. Confidence must be absolutely shot and we are now calling on Gullan and Campbell to pull us out.

This weekend is massive for the club and for Jack Ross. Need to stop the rot asap.

[WhileTheChief..]

Any chance of me getting a refund on my season ticket then if that’s the season written off already in October.

What a load of *****.

Eh? Refund? What you on about?!!

Calm yourself down, it's only my take on things ffs.

[One Day Soon]

It's a 90 minute game. You can't turn up for the second half if it once you've thrown the game in the first 30 minutes, look a lot more interested once the opposition are on the wind down comfortably having tucked up three points and kid yourself on that you were actually competitive in the match. We simply weren't.

For the period of time that this match was remotely a competitive contest - that is to say up until Celtic got their third goal - we were not in any serious contention at any point. Our squad, our psychology and our tactics are so weak that what we have seen in recent games is not surprising, its expected.

[Perfect Hatrick]

I'd stick with him.

I still like him despite the results and performances. I think it's more on the players than him this time.

With Heckingbottom, i never felt he had a clue what he was doing. With JR, i think we have someone with a decent plan that is struggling due to the lack of quality available to him.

We're kidding ourselves on if we think it will be fixed in January though. We've gone from needing a couple of quality additions to practically needing a total rebuild.

Maybe doesn't make much sense but I'd wait until this time next year and see were we are.

This season is a write off already.

The idea of giving someone who has already had two years and we’ve ended up here even more time doesn’t make any sense to me.

Were 11 games in. Get him to **** and at the very least get us someone that makes people want to watch us.

[Stuart93]

Eh? Refund? What you on about?!!

Calm yourself down, it's only my take on things ffs.

Aye I know it’s your take on things but it’s a load of *****. You think the seasons a write off in October?

[J-C]

Just WTF does Ross say to the team in the dressing room, they came out looking **** scared of Celtic and played like it too, system didn't change at half time just the players had some belief, a bit better and another goal would've been nice but Celtic took the foot off the pedal and strolled it. Better 2nd half or not, Ross isn't the man to go forward with.

[Andy74]

The idea of giving someone who has already had two years and we’ve ended up here even more time doesn’t make any sense to me.

Were 11 games in. Get him to **** and at the very least get us someone that makes people want to watch us.

Would other managers do better just now with the players left available?

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't think a new manager will get much more out of these players so I'd rather stick with JR and get new players in.

[Stuart93]

Would other managers do better just now with the players left available?

I reckon there’s probably other managers out there who could have us playing more attractive football with the players we have. Tam Courts is getting a tune out of what I thinks a weaker dundee utd team, playing good football anaw.

And before you ask, no I don’t know who. But I’d never heard of Ange before Celtic brought him in and he appears to be doing a decent job

[mcfly]

I'd stick with him.

I still like him despite the results and performances. I think it's more on the players than him this time.

With Heckingbottom, i never felt he had a clue what he was doing. With JR, i think we have someone with a decent plan that is struggling due to the lack of quality available to him.

We're kidding ourselves on if we think it will be fixed in January though. We've gone from needing a couple of quality additions to practically needing a total rebuild.

Maybe doesn't make much sense but I'd wait until this time next year and see were we are.

This season is a write off already.

🙈🙈

[Hibees1973]

Ross is an arrogant individual.

Wouldn't surprise me if he resigns to protect himself from the shambles he has created. For any prospective future club who may wish to employ him he is that arrogant that I bet he would point to not being supported in the transfer market.

The last transfer window masks over his deficiencies. He has presided over a club which was lucky to get to numerous semi finals/finals and each time he has failed. There has been a downward spiral of performances and spirit for a long time.

If he stays on any longer looks like we will continue to be a one dimensional, counter-attacking team with only one focal point (Boyle).

Hibs are particularly boring to watch at home. The atmosphere at home games is depressing. I have not witnessed many away performances but comments on his.net suggest they are no better.

So many empty seats at Easter Road tonight. So sad.

Get rid.

[madhatter]

Would other managers do better just now with the players left available?

They might be able to get Nisbet to run?

And might be able to tell Gogic to sit in front of the defence and stop being a roaming playmaker, drifting to the left and at times playing behind Nisbet?

[WhileTheChief..]

Aye I know it’s your take on things but it’s a load of *****. You think the seasons a write off in October?

Ok, i get you're angry at the result but what's with all the ***** when we're just chatting here?! You can't really be that angry at me??!!

I think Celtic will pap us out the cup and there's not a hope in hell this squad is challenging for Europe.

That leaves the Scottish Cup, can anyone feel confident of doing anything there?

[CJHibby]

Why do we play tonight's game in reverse. Start positively, get a goal up and kick on please. I'm sure had we got back to 2-3 with our momentum, we'd have got a result tonight but we lost the game early doors. We are not ambitious enough. Why can't we show willing from the start. Inferiority complex personified perfectly tonight. I'm fed up with it 😬

[Nicho87]

If he changed mentality to attacking that would be a hell of a start

Not attacking for one half or 30 minutes

90 minutes attack at will at home is what 99% fans want to see at Easter road

Away from home I get soaking it up a little bit

Ross isn’t giving fan expecatations currently

Football quality was pish last season let’s not kid ourselves on but we got third.

This season we have no back bone and concealing goals galore.

Times up

[Stuart93]

Ok, i get you're angry at the result but what's with all the ***** when we're just chatting here?! You can't really be that angry at me??!!

I think Celtic will pap us out the cup and there's not a hope in hell this squad is challenging for Europe.

That leaves the Scottish Cup, can anyone feel confident of doing anything there?

I’m not angry at you, at all. I just think your opinions a load of **** mate. To write off a season in October in madness.

Celtic will have a hard job papping us out when it’s Rangers we’ve got

[Peevemor]

I'm off. The constant moaners (and they're all here tonight) can get off on the bad result while ignoring the positive side of a lot of our play.

So predictable.

"But nobody's calling for Ross to be sacked..."

I'm far more annoyed at some of the rubbish being spouted on here than by the match tonight.

[Stuart93]

I'm off. The constant moaners can get off on the bad result while ignoring the positive side of a lot of our play.

So predictable.

"But nobody's calling for Ross to be sacked..."

I'm far more annoyed at some of the rubbish being spouted on here than by the match tonight.

That’s dramatic

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m not angry at you, at all. I just think your opinions a load of **** mate. To write off a season in October in madness.

Celtic will have a hard job papping us out when it’s Rangers we’ve got

:thumbsup:

[tamig]

I reckon there’s probably other managers out there who could have us playing more attractive football with the players we have. Tam Courts is getting a tune out of what I thinks a weaker dundee utd team, playing good football anaw.

And before you ask, no I don’t know who. But I’d never heard of Ange before Celtic brought him in and he appears to be doing a decent job

Did you not see us play decent football in the second half there? Or did Celtic just let us do that because the game was already won? Just back from the game but I’d imagine most of the Ross out gang will be completely ignoring that second half tonight.

[GreenCastle]

We've heard it all before but its perfectly true, there are far too many players in the squad who do not have the necessary grit and will to win to be successful professional football players. The cup final performance against St Johnstone proved that.

This - harsh reality. Decent enough players but you need more than decent to win the big games.

[Heisenberg]

I'm off. The constant moaners (and they're all here tonight) can get off on the bad result while ignoring the positive side of a lot of our play.

So predictable.

"But nobody's calling for Ross to be sacked..."

I'm far more annoyed at some of the rubbish being spouted on here than by the match tonight.

Tbf when the positives come when you’re already three down it’s hard to accept.