New stadium for Edinburgh rugby and/or Hearts? (merged)

[Caversham Green]

Their own support would never buy it in a million years.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't make the offer. What their support thinks is their problem not ours.

[Kaiser1962]

Their own support would never buy it in a million years.


Who gives a **** what they think :greengrin

By making the offer we would be, IMO, be destroying the argument as to why public funds should be used to re-house them.

[cabbageandribs1875]

this is a very easy one



NAW :bitchy: :titanic:

[lucky]

I'm amazed at the number up in arms over this. It makes good economic sence. We charge them around £2m a year. We increase our turnover their's reduces. As for a Yam in my seat. Who cares we were all up in arms that ER does not get used for under 21 games and semi finals. If Hibs proposed this then it knocks on the the head The Cardownie War Memorial Community stadium.

[Makaveli]

The best thing would be the hit their supporters' morale would take. No money for their own stadium so they have to come cap in hand to the wee team, you couldn't make it cup. The poetic irony is almost too much to bear... ant and the grasshopper etc etc :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

I'm completely against this for entirely selfish and vengeful reasons flowing from 1990. I fully appreciate the economic debate and the clever ways being proposed to put the council in a spot and probably even to kybosh Cardownie's wish to spend the taxpayers money on his hobby.

The other concern I have is around the extent to which "sharing" can become insidious.

Will we have to put up with a Hearts Trophy cabinet? (there is an old fish tank at ER somewhere I believe) office space and other more permanent facilities for them to operate from for club events, fund raisers and the like? , what about corporate entertainment - do they use our facilities and change all the pictures? Do their vile sponsors get to parade their logo's around ER?

Not for me thanks - we might not be doing well on the pitch at the moment but we have built our infrastructure in the right way, if we do this we are swimming with sharks and could well find ourselves less in possession of our assets, independence and self respect than we currently are.

[Westie1875]

Beggars can't be choosers ! :agree:

Exactly, if Hibs were being clever about the current situation we should offer to rent ER to them. Lets face it, they would never take us up on it, however it would show that there are other viable options that won't cost tax payers money, the council could hardly justify building them a ground after they turn down a ground share with us (not that they can justify doing it anyway).

[SanFranHibs]

If Petrie worked out a good deal for Hibs, with penalties for them inflicting damage on ER, I think it would be a smart financial move for Hibs. Also, would be ironic that the big team are 'reduced' to rent from the wee team.

Also, it worries me that some Hibs fans are disposed to us leaving ER to share a new stadium with Hearts, community or not. We have a stadium that meets all requirements amd is located in the spiritual homeland of Hibs.

Renting to Hearts could be good for Hibs and might be necessary for Hearts. Vacating ER and Leith (and probably moving westwards) is not necessary for Hibs but good for Hearts !

Football may be a business, but in some respects they are no different from individuals. If you can't afford to own then you have to rent !

I would be willing to rent to them. But other than that.....to hell with them !!!

:flag:

[Albion Hibs]

No thanks. they chose to pash money away on average players getting overpaid and used the money they were paying to give them a team stronger than many clubs in scotland, all based on a false and unsustainable existance. The fact they are now in the brown stuff is there own doing and I am pretty happy to sit back and watch them explode.

We have done the opposite and invested in the infrastructure and sustainability of our club, this ensuring we are about for a long time to come. Rod for all the crit he gets has ensured we are still about. Sharing with them, no cheers - 1) I would never trust them to pay for anything, they dont even pay their players 2) The thought of having to colour bits of our stadium in pink makes me sick 3) the thought of some yam clown sitting in my seat during weeks when they are playing at "home" also makes me sick.

In terms of some new community stadium that is even worse, there is no way we could up root the heritage of our club and move it to some cheap council site in sighthill. We are a leith club that is were we belong, they may be about to get evicted, tough luck, they made there bed and all the little grunts were happy enough to go along with it.

[Scouse Hibee]

Where would we seat the other 5,000 season ticket holders? 5,000 exaggeration but could be if we go on a winning run until the end of the season.


What!!!!! My season ticket is valid for away games............................why the hell didn't someone tell me :wink:

[The_Famous_HFC]

Aye, moving Hibs to the west of Edinburgh would be brilliant :rolleyes: No need for a community stadium as it would be cheaper to redevelop Meadowbank for athletics, gymnastics, basketball etc and let Hertz use Murrayfield. Aye, cause that is what I said right enough.... selling off ER and Tynecastle would raise circa 30 million. More than enough fir a very good central stadium. If the council put in money then eben better.

[Bishop Hibee]

Sorry but I find the idea that Hearts renting our stadium for matchdays negating the "need" for a community stadium quite naive.

If, and it's a big if, the council want a new stadium with an athletics track, rugby pitch etc in the west of Edinburgh and help out Hearts in the process then they'll build it. Look at what they were prepared to do regarding the trams in the face of overwhelming public opposition from the start. We need to make it clear to councillors that the idea is a non-starter and that Hearts should take care of themselves.

I'll state again, the redevelopment of Meadowbank as a stadium for athletics etc would be cheaper than building a new one. Hearts should move to Murrayfield if Tynie is deemed unsuitable.

[Kaiser1962]

I would even go so far as Hibs painting the names of the season ticket holders onto the seat so that when the Yams are there they know we own them :greengrin

[Emerald]

I would even go so far as Hibs painting the names of the season ticket holders onto the seat so that when the Yams are there they know we own them :greengrin

Aye and paint "Yam Fud" on all theirs. :na na:

[Fish]

Why don't they ground share with the huns. They'd make excellent bedfellows.....

[Kato]

Yes - the council is clearly still biased towards Hearts - but you might argue the city is as there are (slightly) more Hearts fans than Hibs fans.

The city is what it is however on taking public I expect those elected to be even handed when dealing with businesses in the city. Can't say I've seen much of that.


The point being having one lot running the city for more than a quarter of century allows a whole load of sloppy ways of working to get ingrained - and if it involves staff in positions of influence with axes to grind then it is unlikely to be dealt with if they are the mates of the politicians. And the planning department is one of those where relationships between politicians and officers are notoriously close for comfort.So a new lot (of almost any colour) shakes up the cosy arrangements. And I guess that is the kind of point Jenny Dawe was trying to make.

You could have saved typing that and just typed "They are crooks and Jenny Dawe has just admitted it." No?

The petty day-to-day mundanities are all a bit silly and predictable. It's the criminal behaviour that's the point at hand. Lord knows how much of a hole there will be once the books come out on the tram ferrago.



I don't know about the Sunday licence issue - but I find it hard to believe ER is dry for Sunday games - as it is in effect a private members' club. And if the council has deliberately and unfairly treated one aplicant differently to another then it will lose an appeal (plus pay they appelants costs) - so there has to be some legal grounds for the decision - or most usually some sort of negotiation over the fine details.
If you let me know the details I'm happy to make enquiries as it were.

I have no use for any of your soft soap, save it for something else. The details are out there if you google them or search on this site.

[LeithBoozy]

Ive changed my mind, let them rot.:agree: :flag:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Doesn't mean we shouldn't make the offer. What their support thinks is their problem not ours. point i am making is that this story has no legs. Even if we charged them no rent, their support wouldn't swallow it. But we will still have a thread on something that won't ever happen? If they have to ground share it will be with Livingston. My main concern, setting aside tribal cliched gripes, would be that the pitch can barely stand up to a game every fortnight.

[LancashireHibby]

I was thinking send them to Murrayfield, but Livingston is an even better suggestion :thumbsup:

[iwasthere1972]

Season ticket holders don't get tickets for away matches - the ticket allocation would be the same as a game at Tynie or any other ground, only the location would be different. I think that's where I'd baulk if I was a ST holder though, the thought of sitting in the South looking at some Yam erse in my seat would not be pleasant.


The point I was making is if you go to Tynie you get x amount of tickets for the away end just like any other ground. If we were to play a Hearts team who played their home games at ER we would expect the same treatment as any other "technically away team" and recieve only allocation for the away stand as we would be the away team. Regardless of the amount of Season Ticket holders we have...

:aok:


What!!!!! My season ticket is valid for away games............................why the hell didn't someone tell me :wink:

:doh: I just couldn't get my head around us being at home but the away team.

[Caversham Green]

Sorry but I find the idea that Hearts renting our stadium for matchdays negating the "need" for a community stadium quite naive.

If, and it's a big if, the council want a new stadium with an athletics track, rugby pitch etc in the west of Edinburgh and help out Hearts in the process then they'll build it. Look at what they were prepared to do regarding the trams in the face of overwhelming public opposition from the start. We need to make it clear to councillors that the idea is a non-starter and that Hearts should take care of themselves.

I'll state again, the redevelopment of Meadowbank as a stadium for athletics etc would be cheaper than building a new one. Hearts should move to Murrayfield if Tynie is deemed unsuitable.

The thing is, if Hearts have the alternative of a groundshare at ER, there is absolutely no need to build a 'community' stadium of the size proposed, and that point must be made to the council. Rugby has Murrayfield, which is way beyond its general needs, Football would have ER and any other sports would only need a capacity of <10,000 - refurbish Meadowbank or build a smaller stadium at a third of the price.

Hearts can either share ER (which I doubt they would do) or build a stadium at their own cost rather than the taxpayer's.

[clerriehibs]

Hearts are "suffocating", remember. Now, while that in itself is a good thing, and while they can't even fill what they call a stadium, our own quality piece of real estate isn't good enough. Our 20k capacity all-seater would appear not to be big enough to seat all their fans that don't go to the games anyway. What they want is the council to build them their very own 23k seater "community stadium", coloured maroon, without a running track for the community, but with loads of facilities for cash generation, e.g. bars and restaurants. All very useful in a community stadium.

[steakbake]

Hearts are "suffocating", remember. Now, while that in itself is a good thing, and while they can't even fill what they call a stadium, our own quality piece of real estate isn't good enough. Our 20k capacity all-seater would appear not to be big enough to seat all their fans that don't go to the games anyway. What they want is the council to build them their very own 23k seater "community stadium", coloured maroon, without a running track for the community, but with loads of facilities for cash generation, e.g. bars and restaurants. All very useful in a community stadium.

...don't forget the war memorial.

[iwasthere1972]

Anyone been on JKB to gauge what their feelings are about a possible groundshare?

I would have a wee look but I'm on a long list of Hibby's banned from that site.

[blackpoolhibs]

I probably wouldn't want them to share easter road, but i can see how it would make us a few bob. I think what caversham is saying would take away the need for the council to fund a community stadium, and basically thats all that we want.

We want them to fund their own stadium, and offering them easter road is a great ploy. It gives them a place to play without the council having to spend a penny, and we know they would not want to come anyway, so its a win win situation. :greengrin

[Aubenas]

Think we're a long way from decision on this. Edinburgh pay lip service to creating sports facilities but have an appalling record - the demise of Meadowbank is a scandal. More likely a shared site west of EDinburgh with Livi as WLC are desperate to unload Almondvale.

[Kaiser1962]

I probably wouldn't want them to share easter road, but i can see how it would make us a few bob. I think what caversham is saying would take away the need for the council to fund a community stadium, and basically thats all that we want.

We want them to fund their own stadium, and offering them easter road is a great ploy. It gives them a place to play without the council having to spend a penny, and we know they would not want to come anyway, so its a win win situation. :greengrin


Thats the gist of what folk are saying. :agree:

Not in a million years would they want to come, or would we want them here. Livingston seems a feasible option as its already underused. Is it still local authority owned? If it is it fits the bill, after all Meadowbank made the same move some years earlier so there is a precedent.

[Saorsa]

Not under ANY circumstance.

**** h****s

[The Falcon]

I understand the financial reasons we might want to do it and I can even relate to the political maneuvering to undermine and intercept the council's apparent willingness to bend over for them.

But my answer is still no. It is fitting that they be left to rot in that cesspit of piss that is entirely of their own making.

[Hibs07p]

If it's just to negate the need to build a community stadium, offer Edinburgh Rugby the use of our stadium, that would do the trick.

GGTTH

[R'Albin]

Not under ANY circumstance.

**** h****s

This.:agree:

[greenginger]

I understand the financial reasons we might want to do it and I can even relate to the political maneuvering to undermine and intercept the council's apparent willingness to bend over for them.

But my answer is still no. It is fitting that they be left to rot in that cesspit of piss that is entirely of their own making.


Trouble is without some maneuvering from us there is a chance our devious Council will bale them out.

Build a Community *********** and charge some peppercorn rent to encourage " business " development in deprived area of the city.
I can just about imagine the bullsh*t that will get shoveled when the announced is made.:fuming:

[Geo_1875]

Is it just coincidence that they're talking about a 23k capcity stadium which would be slightly larger than our current capacity? Big team mentality?

[erin go bragh]

No


ggtth

[Hermit Crab]

As it says I'll no be back if that ever happens

[Keith_M]

I'm convinced that the Neanderthals in their support would take great delight in causing as much damage as possible to ER.

How many seats do they already smash in the South stand? Imagine the sate of the home end after they've been let loose.

Finally, how would we all feel if they were actually getting higher gates than us, at our own stadium? I'm sure they'd be happy to rub it in.

[LancashireHibby]

I'm convinced that the Neanderthals in their support would take great delight in causing as much damage as possible to ER.

How many seats do they already smash in the South stand? Imagine the sate of the home end after they've been let loose.

Finally, how would we all feel if they were actually getting higher gates than us, at our own stadium? I'm sure they'd be happy to rub it in.

I'm sure they'd get the message when their club has to fork out for the repairs each week. Plus a new seat ready for each Hibs games isn't a bad thing as at least there wouldn't be that horrible Jambo stench on each seat.

[Caversham Green]

point i am making is that this story has no legs. Even if we charged them no rent, their support wouldn't swallow it. But we will still have a thread on something that won't ever happen? If they have to ground share it will be with Livingston. My main concern, setting aside tribal cliched gripes, would be that the pitch can barely stand up to a game every fortnight.

My target here is the council rather than the yams. The council have already spent £15,000 on a report that found out stuff that everyone already knew, and certain individual councillors have been spouting yam-orientd pish in the press and at council meetings. They should not be interested in the sensetivity of the yam support, they should be looking at the least expensive options to give the yams a new home and Hibs offering a rental on ER is just that. I don't give a toss whether the yam support would like it or not, the council should not be subsidising their new home when there is an alternative which costs the public purse nothing.

I agree that the pitch would be a concern, and suggested in the op that a semi-synthetic surface (I can't remember what it's called) could be laid with a cost contribution from the Yams. It works pretty well here at Reading, where they share the stadium with London Irish.

[steakbake]

I've put an FOI request together and will be sending it this evening. Will feed back if I hear anything. They have 20 days.

However, I've been told not to expect much!

[greenginger]

I'm convinced that the Neanderthals in their support would take great delight in causing as much damage as possible to ER.

How many seats do they already smash in the South stand? Imagine the sate of the home end after they've been let loose.

Finally, how would we all feel if they were actually getting higher gates than us, at our own stadium? I'm sure they'd be happy to rub it in.




I think 25% of the gross admission take is the standard for ground rental in Scottish Football.

They can boast all they like about the gates , all the more for us.

One things for sure they would'nt be adding a few thousand on to the gate just to prove they are the BIG team. :greengrin

[Barney McGrew]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/around-the-capital/dawe_denies_hearts_bias_after_claim_of_deal_behind _closed_doors_1_1940015

[bingo70]

Sure its been covered but I actually cannae believe that dawes women is bragging that this administration is 'less' corrupt than the last, that's nothing to brag about and is an admission of guilt.

Don't really know how these things work so Other than the voting public who does she answer to does she have a boss? Or is she the head honcho?

I've always been fairly sceptical about anti-hibs bias but appears I was wrong, I hope and expect hibs to pick up on this quote

[bawheid]

Sure its been covered but I actually cannae believe that dawes women is bragging that this administration is 'less' corrupt than the last, that's nothing to brag about and is an admission of guilt.

Don't really know how these things work so Other than the voting public who does she answer to does she have a boss? Or is she the head honcho?

I've always been fairly sceptical about anti-hibs bias but appears I was wrong, I hope and expect hibs to pick up on this quote

She's the leader of the council. Unless she stands down or is brought down by her own administration, you can only vote her out. I'll be doing just that in May next year.

[Golden Bear]

Sure its been covered but I actually cannae believe that dawes women is bragging that this administration is 'less' corrupt than the last, that's nothing to brag about and is an admission of guilt.

Don't really know how these things work so Other than the voting public who does she answer to does she have a boss? Or is she the head honcho?

I've always been fairly sceptical about anti-hibs bias but appears I was wrong, I hope and expect hibs to pick up on this quote

:agree:

They've not got a leg to stand on as her statement is an admission of guilt if ever there was one. I hope Sir Tom Farmer has taken note of her comments.

[allezsauzee]

I don't think we need to worry about the council coming to the yams rescue. If the tramworks are anything to go by they will have gone to the wall long before any community stadium has been completed. I know that renting out the stadium would give us a nice steady revenue stream but there is no way I want those tramps in our stadium every other week. it's bad enough letting them in the away end for the derbies!

[degenerated]

Surely an foi request would confirm her pro hibs stance on the lochend butterfly.

[DaveF]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/around-the-capital/dawe_denies_hearts_bias_after_claim_of_deal_behind _closed_doors_1_1940015

Not a lot you can say to that really.

Only a certified idiot (or Hearts fan) could ever vote Dawe back into local government again.

[ronaldo7]

Sure its been covered but I actually cannae believe that dawes women is bragging that this administration is 'less' corrupt than the last, that's nothing to brag about and is an admission of guilt.

Don't really know how these things work so Other than the voting public who does she answer to does she have a boss? Or is she the head honcho?

I've always been fairly sceptical about anti-hibs bias but appears I was wrong, I hope and expect hibs to pick up on this quote

I don't think anyone at Hibs will pick up the quote and run with it. It's astonishing that the board have been so quiet over the last week or so. It's about time we came out fighting, and put these *******s in their place.

[bawheid]

I don't think anyone at Hibs will pick up the quote and run with it. It's astonishing that the board have been so quiet over the last week or so. It's about time we came out fighting, and put these *******s in their place.

Hopefully someone will raise it at the AGM.

[Golden Bear]

She's the leader of the council. Unless she stands down or is brought down by her own administration, you can only vote her out. I'll be doing just that in May next year.

Dawe and Cardownie at ECC level then Salmond at Government level - watch this space with interest.

[bingo70]

I don't think anyone at Hibs will pick up the quote and run with it. It's astonishing that the board have been so quiet over the last week or so. It's about time we came out fighting, and put these *******s in their place.Even a statement saying we're taking legal advice on the back of cllr dawes admission would go along way to stopping the council in their tracks, it would also publicise the argument which could only be in our favour!

[ronaldo7]

Even a statement saying we're taking legal advice on the back of cllr dawes admission would go along way to stopping the council in their tracks, it would also publicise the argument which could only be in our favour!

:agree: But I won't hold my breath. We should be trotting out all the problems we've had with the council, from the Butterfly site to Hunters Hall/Jack Kane, and the sale of the strip of land at the back of the west stand. The council should be held to account, and the Hertz should be told to fund their own ground (apparantly Romanov is a Multi Millionaire), without help from the council.

[blackpoolhibs]

If this is the blueprint for the future, surely we should get involved. Start spending money we dont have, start buying players our nearest rivals cant compete with. Watch crowds soar to around 13000. No need to upgrade our facilities anymore. Why bother paying bills on time, paying tax on time and basically running the business as a going concern, when the tax payer will be along in a minute to bail us out, simples?

[PaulSmith]

Astonishing, we had heard the 'less bias' quote 2nd hand but here we have her admitting it with direct quotes.

[Albion Hibs]

I suppose the Councils logo is rancid pink so we probably should have know from the off that they were a subsiduary of Vlads army.

I have to admit I did not appreicite the money had actually been spent in providing this survey/report at the expense of the Edinburgh tax payer. In which case next time there an issue with bins of whatever in my street I will be expecting little Jenny to drag her arse round at get the problem sorted.

I wonder what would happen if a private developer wanted to swap a site they owned for some council owned land, I wonder if the planning department would cover their costs in design a proposal to prove that it was a good idea. Cant remember ever hearing of the council going halfers with a residential or commercial developer on providing studies to show anything.

Fact of the matter would appear to be that Tynecastle is an issue if they want to undertake the expansion that they would like, simply put, if that is the case as a landowner it is there responsibility to remove the constraint or revise there proposals accordingly. It should not fall to the tax payer to solve the surrounding issues for them. Plus I would take a bet that the report is based on some farcical proposal that they would never do anyway, instead they are using that to ensure the report provides the answer that they want.

Shame on CEC, when council services are being cut and people are likley to be getting the bullet the politicians are using our money to provide a report for the club they support to feel like they are some super-jambo. Is it really that much different to the whole expenses matter.

I hope they are all given there jotters, not only for spending council money, but also council time trying to resolve an issue for a private company that has been running itself into the ground for the past 5 years in bid to engineer a land sale. In addition to moving towards a partnership that can never be trusted to pay any form or rent or investment return to the council and us the tax payer.

PS Jenny what does the Butterfly project have to do within anything? Like all land for development it was either zoned as residential or promoted via the councils local plan. This land was owned by Hibs and sold, not sneakily progressed in the back halls of Chambers Street, swapped with a council asset then sold on to line some foriegn crooks pockets. In turn it is delivering private and affordable housing for the city along with revenue via council tax and no doubt developer contributions via planning gain - the comparison is none, unless CEC funded the designs for this? In the event they did not can we have a backdated invoice for 15k+interest paid?

Political shambles. Good luck with next years Council elections, with the tram and this on your CV you and your little group will be struggling.

[hibs0666]

If this is the blueprint for the future, surely we should get involved. Start spending money we dont have, start buying players our nearest rivals cant compete with. Watch crowds soar to around 13000. No need to upgrade our facilities anymore. Why bother paying bills on time, paying tax on time and basically running the business as a going concern, when the tax payer will be along in a minute to bail us out, simples?

That's a Big Team you're scandalising there. The yams are the RBS and Lloyds of Scottish football, and are far far too big big to be allowed to fail. :wink:

[bawheid]

I suppose the Councils logo is rancid pink so we probably should have know from the off that they were a subsiduary of Vlads army.

I have to admit I did not appreicite the money had actually been spent in providing this survey/report at the expense of the Edinburgh tax payer. In which case next time there an issue with bins of whatever in my street I will be expecting little Jenny to drag her arse round at get the problem sorted.

I wonder what would happen if a private developer wanted to swap a site they owned for some council owned land, I wonder if the planning department would cover their costs in design a proposal to prove that it was a good idea. Cant remember ever hearing of the council going halfers with a residential or commercial developer on providing studies to show anything.

Fact of the matter would appear to be that Tynecastle is an issue if they want to undertake the expansion that they would like, simply put, if that is the case as a landowner it is there responsibility to remove the constraint or revise there proposals accordingly. It should not fall to the tax payer to solve the surrounding issues for them. Plus I would take a bet that the report is based on some farcical proposal that they would never do anyway, instead they are using that to ensure the report provides the answer that they want.

Shame on CEC, when council services are being cut and people are likley to be getting the bullet the politicians are using our money to provide a report for the club they support to feel like they are some super-jambo. Is it really that much different to the whole expenses matter.

I hope they are all given there jotters, not only for spending council money, but also council time trying to resolve an issue for a private company that has been running itself into the ground for the past 5 years in bid to engineer a land sale. In addition to moving towards a partnership that can never be trusted to pay any form or rent or investment return to the council and us the tax payer.

PS Jenny what does the Butterfly project have to do within anything? Like all land for development it was either zoned as residential or promoted via the councils local plan. This land was owned by Hibs and sold, not sneakily progressed in the back halls of Chambers Street, swapped with a council asset then sold on to line some foriegn crooks pockets. In turn it is delivering private and affordable housing for the city along with revenue via council tax and no doubt developer contributions via planning gain - the comparison is none, unless CEC funded the designs for this? In the event they did not can we have a backdated invoice for 15k+interest paid?

Political shambles. Good luck with next years Council elections, with the tram and this on your CV you and your little group will be struggling.

Spot. On.

[The Harp]

I wouldn't even contemplate sharing a stadium with that shower. It's bad enough hearing that our joke of a council have squandered £15,000 of council tax payers dosh financing 50% of a report which should've been paid for by them alone. :grr: HOMFC is a private club, so where they play should be of no interest to anyone except Vlad and his 'believers'.

[Caversham Green]

I don't think we need to worry about the council coming to the yams rescue. If the tramworks are anything to go by they will have gone to the wall long before any community stadium has been completed. I know that renting out the stadium would give us a nice steady revenue stream but there is no way I want those tramps in our stadium every other week. it's bad enough letting them in the away end for the derbies!

You should read some of the later posts and links in the 'Reply from my local councillor' thread. It's becoming clear that some members of the ruling administration are intent on the council shoring up the football club they support, and they will be using your money to do so. Whether or not they are competent enough to complete the project remains to be seen, but even if they're not they will waste millions of pounds proving it if given the chance. I'd rather not give them the chance to test their competence.

[Beefster]

It's irrelevant whether it is Labour, SNP or Lib Dems in power, they are all as corrupt and incompetent as each other.

The way that Dawes, Cardownie and their cronies are all talking about this - its a done deal. I'm not an Edinburgh resident or council taxpayer but I hope some who are take them on.

[Jack]

The more of this that comes to light the more it looks to me to be gerrymandering* at best, and at worst downright corruption. And not just in this example but in all the other instances that have also been mentioned which have been subject to a bias worse than it is now. And now its just the small, lesser bias, matter of a £40m+ stadium!!! :rolleyes:

Now if the City of Edinburgh Council had an unblemished history and a whiter than white image then maybe this could have been brushed over. But it hasn’t; and hardly a month has gone by recently without councillors distancing themselves from dubious goings on and a host of multi-million pound scandals where the words bribery and corruption have been bandied about. Don’t even mention the farce otherwise known as the Edinburgh Tram Network.

Its not just the councillors that need brought to account. The whole organisation needs going through like a dose of salts. Would the Audit Commission be the best people to pass the buck or abdicate this responsibility?

I wonder if someone was able to put some sort of dossier together for Private Eye to consider in their Rotten Burghs section?




* to manipulate an electoral area, [usually by altering its boundaries], in order to gain an unfair political advantage in an election. This has led to councillors being jailed.

[StevieC]

PS Jenny what does the Butterfly project have to do within anything? Like all land for development it was either zoned as residential or promoted via the councils local plan. This land was owned by Hibs and sold, not sneakily progressed in the back halls of Chambers Street, swapped with a council asset then sold on to line some foriegn crooks pockets.

I'm maybe picking you up wrong on this but, my understanding of the Lochend Butterfly situation was that this was a piece of land that was NOT owned by Hibs but had potential for Hibs to purchase it and match it up with their own land (at the back of the East Stand) to be an excellent investment opportunity to help fund the development of Easter Road.

The "scandal" that Dawes alludes to, was that it was sold on the sly to another developer and it turned out (after the sale) that the stipulations for purchase had actually been changed during the bidding stage. I cant recall the exact ins and outs but it was something like bids had to be on the basis of "no stipulations" (which Hibs was) and the winning bid had stipulations based on "pending planning permission". When this came to light, Hibs tried to up their bid accordingly but were too they were too late and lost out.

There was a big stink about it at the time and accusations of council bias, back-handers and possibly even illegal practices.

[JeMeSouviens]

It wasn't Hibs as such, but an STF backed consortium including the holding company he uses to own Hibs. They bid to buy the Lochend butterfly from the council under the condition it couldn't be used for housing. The council then changed their minds and sold to a property developer who put in a far higher bid contingent on getting planning permission for flats. Someone at the council "forgot" to tell STF & co about the change.

[Archie70]

I'm maybe picking you up wrong on this but, my understanding of the Lochend Butterfly situation was that this was a piece of land that was NOT owned by Hibs but had potential for Hibs to purchase it and match it up with their own land (at the back of the East Stand) to be an excellent investment opportunity to help fund the development of Easter Road.

The "scandal" that Dawes alludes to, was that it was sold on the sly to another developer and it turned out (after the sale) that the stipulations for purchase had actually been changed during the bidding stage. I cant recall the exact ins and outs but it was something like bids had to be on the basis of "no stipulations" (which Hibs was) and the winning bid had stipulations based on "pending planning permission". When this came to light, Hibs tried to up their bid accordingly but were too they were too late and lost out.

There was a big stink about it at the time and accusations of council bias, back-handers and possibly even illegal practices.


You are correct, the goal posts were moved without telling us and when we found out asked for the opportunity to re-apply. That was rejected. We put in a higher bid than the company who were chosen as the "preferred option". This deal was corrupt. Nothing more, nothing less. This was a once in a lifetime opportunity for Hibs which would have set us on a sound financial footing with the finances to redevelop the ground and without the need to sell players.The deal was blocked by a Hearts Council, the land sold at a lower price to the detriment of the Edinburgh tax payer and we sold our best players to fund the ground developments. It really was that simple.

CEC = Corrupt Edinburgh Council.

[StevieC]

It wasn't Hibs as such, but an STF backed consortium including the holding company he uses to own Hibs. They bid to buy the Lochend butterfly from the council under the condition it couldn't be used for housing. The council then changed their minds and sold to a property developer who put in a far higher bid contingent on getting planning permission for flats. Someone at the council "forgot" to tell STF & co about the change.

I was close. :wink:

The bottom line was that the goal posts were moved during the bidding process (by a Hearts biased council, according to Dawes today) that resulted in Hibs not getting a fair opportunity to bid for the land.

[JeMeSouviens]

The deal was blocked by a Hearts Council, the land sold at a lower price to the detriment of the Edinburgh tax payer and we sold our best players to fund the ground developments. It really was that simple.

CEC = Corrupt Edinburgh Council.

To be fair, the old car park land that Hibs would've put into this deal did subsequently skyrocket in value and was sold for about £10M a few years later, so I don't think we probably ended up much worse off (no thanks to our council chums right enough).

[PatHead]

To be fair, the old car park land that Hibs would've put into this deal did subsequently skyrocket in value and was sold for about £10M a few years later, so I don't think we probably ended up much worse off (no thanks to our council chums right enough).

There was nothing fair about it, Hibs could have benefitted from the Butterfly Land and due to "possibly corrupt" council actions we didn't. At the time of the original sale there was no guarantee the car park would be sold

[Albion Hibs]

I'm maybe picking you up wrong on this but, my understanding of the Lochend Butterfly situation was that this was a piece of land that was NOT owned by Hibs but had potential for Hibs to purchase it and match it up with their own land (at the back of the East Stand) to be an excellent investment opportunity to help fund the development of Easter Road.

The "scandal" that Dawes alludes to, was that it was sold on the sly to another developer and it turned out (after the sale) that the stipulations for purchase had actually been changed during the bidding stage. I cant recall the exact ins and outs but it was something like bids had to be on the basis of "no stipulations" (which Hibs was) and the winning bid had stipulations based on "pending planning permission". When this came to light, Hibs tried to up their bid accordingly but were too they were too late and lost out.

There was a big stink about it at the time and accusations of council bias, back-handers and possibly even illegal practices.

No is probably my bad. I dont know who owned the land or benefited from it. I know the albion gardens one accross from the west stand was hibs, in fact I am not even sure of that. But from Dawes statement she implied we benefited from it, it would appear that not only is this not the case, but she has highlighted where hibs have been turned over - that of course completly defeats the point she was making and shows that she is quoting something she has no idea about.

Whilst I dont wish for the club to become publically involved in this I would assume that the council ombidsman and at very least the Scottish Executive should be looking into it, and by it I mean the report because as far as I am concerned they can whistle for my council tax money if it is going to be used to finance a football club that has been laundering money for a series of overseas businesses for years.

I would also hope that any politician worth anything, regardless of football choice, wants nothing to do with this whole affair.

[Peevemor]

No is probably my bad. I dont know who owned the land or benefited from it. I know the albion gardens one accross from the west stand was hibs, in fact I am not even sure of that. But from Dawes statement she implied we benefited from it, it would appear that not only is this not the case, but she has highlighted where hibs have been turned over - that of course completly defeats the point she was making and shows that she is quoting something she has no idea about.

Whilst I dont wish for the club to become publically involved in this I would assume that the council ombidsman and at very least the Scottish Executive should be looking into it, and by it I mean the report because as far as I am concerned they can whistle for my council tax money if it is going to be used to finance a football club that has been laundering money for a series of overseas businesses for years.

I would also hope that any politician worth anything, regardless of football choice, wants nothing to do with this whole affair.

STF already tried to get to the bottom of it but was refused access to the relevant papers.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/hibs_owner_in_demand_for_answers_to_land_sale_1_13 37248

[Albion Hibs]

STF already tries to get to the bottom of it but was refused access to the relevant papers.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/hibs_owner_in_demand_for_answers_to_land_sale_1_13 37248

Farce. And I will bet you that if we were to stick in and FOI now the papers would have disappeared or been destroyed when Jenny accidentally spilt her morning latte over it....paid for out of a brown paper packet dropped of my some foriegn guy with elbow patches on his jacket.

It reeks.

[DaveF]

STF already tried to get to the bottom of it but was refused access to the relevant papers.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/hibs_owner_in_demand_for_answers_to_land_sale_1_13 37248

From that article "the request, made in January, 2005, had been to get to the bottom of the why the council went for the rival bid.

He (STF) said: "What surprised me was that it was going to cost over 600 to pull together. If they had told me that I could have made a contribution to the cost."

Pah, if CEC can ***** £15,000 on a joint report with the Merrick's, then a FOI request at £600 should be a skoosh for Cardownie and his mob.

What could they possibly be trying to hide....

[Jack]

From that article "the request, made in January, 2005, had been to get to the bottom of the why the council went for the rival bid.

He (STF) said: "What surprised me was that it was going to cost over 600 to pull together. If they had told me that I could have made a contribution to the cost."

Pah, if CEC can ***** £15,000 on a joint report with the Merrick's, then a FOI request at £600 should be a skoosh for Cardownie and his mob.

What could they possibly be trying to hide....

It’s the FoI law that they can avoid answering through the £600 thingy.

What SFT should have done is to break the question up, maybe even among his pals, so that no one part exceeded that amount.

For example

Question: Provide details of all contacts the council has had from 2000 to 2010

FAIL, would cost say £1800.

Friend 1. Provide details of all contacts the council has had from 2000 to 2002
Friend 2. Provide details of all contacts the council has had from 2002 to 2004
Friend 3. Provide details of all contacts the council has had from 2004 to 2006
Friend 4. Provide details of all contacts the council has had from 2006 to 2008
Friend 5. Provide details of all contacts the council has had from 2008 to 2010

No one question comes to more than £600 :aok:

[PaulSmith]

Something tells me that STF did get the info a decision on the councils conduct was found to be in their favour

[Albion Hibs]

STF already tried to get to the bottom of it but was refused access to the relevant papers.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/hibs_owner_in_demand_for_answers_to_land_sale_1_13 37248


From that article "the request, made in January, 2005, had been to get to the bottom of the why the council went for the rival bid.

He (STF) said: "What surprised me was that it was going to cost over 600 to pull together. If they had told me that I could have made a contribution to the cost."

Pah, if CEC can ***** £15,000 on a joint report with the Merrick's, then a FOI request at £600 should be a skoosh for Cardownie and his mob.

What could they possibly be trying to hide....

Fair point.

What is even worse is I have just read the evening news, which the Mrs brought in after her work. There has to be at least 10 articles about charities struggling for money, people with serious medical conditions trying to raise money for treatment and the commy pool (another one of there projects) going over budget with additional cost coming to the tax payer. Yet the hearts fans working under the title of "councillor" at CEC are using their position to try and progress something for the club they support at the expense of the taxpayer.

Quite how none of them have been asked to stand down is beyond me.

Cardownie, Dawes pick up a copy of the evening news and have a look at what you could have spent money on. Then let us all know if you have a problem sleeping at night.

[clerriehibs]

Fair point.

What is even worse is I have just read the evening news, which the Mrs brought in after her work. There has to be at least 10 articles about charities struggling for money, people with serious medical conditions trying to raise money for treatment and the commy pool (another one of there projects) going over budget with additional cost coming to the tax payer. Yet the hearts fans working under the title of "councillor" at CEC are using their position to try and progress something for the club they support at the expense of the taxpayer.

Quite how none of them have been asked to stand down is beyond me.

Cardownie, Dawes pick up a copy of the evening news and have a look at what you could have spent money on. Then let us all know if you have a problem sleeping at night.

You are having a :faf: aren't you, suggesting they might have a conscience?

[Dashing Bob S]

Fair point.

What is even worse is I have just read the evening news, which the Mrs brought in after her work. There has to be at least 10 articles about charities struggling for money, people with serious medical conditions trying to raise money for treatment and the commy pool (another one of there projects) going over budget with additional cost coming to the tax payer. Yet the hearts fans working under the title of "councillor" at CEC are using their position to try and progress something for the club they support at the expense of the taxpayer.

Quite how none of them have been asked to stand down is beyond me.

Cardownie, Dawes pick up a copy of the evening news and have a look at what you could have spent money on. Then let us all know if you have a problem sleeping at night.

The only way Stevie C will have trouble sleeping at nights is if the third Ukrainian bride takes the option of the previous two and decides to bugger off back to Kiev!

I'm sure that state of affairs would only last till the council 'fact-finding mission' to Kiev can be funded.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Fair point. What is even worse is I have just read the evening news, which the Mrs brought in after her work. There has to be at least 10 articles about charities struggling for money, people with serious medical conditions trying to raise money for treatment and the commy pool (another one of there projects) going over budget with additional cost coming to the tax payer. Yet the hearts fans working under the title of "councillor" at CEC are using their position to try and progress something for the club they support at the expense of the taxpayer. Quite how none of them have been asked to stand down is beyond me. Cardownie, Dawes pick up a copy of the evening news and have a look at what you could have spent money on. Then let us all know if you have a problem sleeping at night. The only way Stevie C will have trouble sleeping at nights is if the third Ukrainian bride takes the option of the previous two and decides to bugger off back to Kiev!I'm sure that state of affairs would only last till the council 'fact-finding mission' to Kiev can be funded. To have a look at newly built community stadium no doubt.

[Hibercelona]

What enrages me is the fact that the council would even consider bending the rules to help these mugs out, when they didn't step in what so ever to try and prevent a certain infamous takeover bid.

[Liberal Hibby]

The Lochend butterfly scandal was in 2000 - Jenny Dawe was not in charge then (I'm not even sure if she was on the council). Without being too political about it, the difficulty for Hibs fans is that voting Dawe out and putting Labour in puts the lot who were truely anti Hibs back in, voting SNP makes Cardownie leader of the council - and I can't imagine the Tories being a likely contender or any more pro-Hibs than anyone else.

And for information the Evening News article was wrong (unsurprisingly) - Stefan Tymkewycz is not the only Hibby in the adminstration. Paul Edie is too: http://pauledie.blogspot.com/. I'm pretty sure there are other senior councillors (in all parties) who are Hibs supporters too. So it's nothing like the sort of organised conspiracy the News appears to be trying to make out.

[Kato]

The Lochend butterfly scandal was in 2000 - Jenny Dawe was not in charge then (I'm not even sure if she was on the council). Without being too political about it, the difficulty for Hibs fans is that voting Dawe out and putting Labour in puts the lot who were truely anti Hibs back in, voting SNP makes Cardownie leader of the council - and I can't imagine the Tories being a likely contender or any more pro-Hibs than anyone else.

I don't think many are discussing this on the basis which is the better party to vote for - they all seem equally wanting.

It's a discussion on why should Hearts get preferential treatment over Hibs at every turn. You might say that I should write "seemingly get preferential treatment over Hibs at nearly every turn" but it looks blatant and seems to happen at every turn. Even our training ground is outwith CEC auspices.


And for information the Evening News article was wrong (unsurprisingly) - Stefan Tymkewycz is not the only Hibby in the adminstration. Paul Edie is too: http://pauledie.blogspot.com/. I'm pretty sure there are other senior councillors (in all parties) who are Hibs supporters too. So it's nothing like the sort of organised conspiracy the News appears to be trying to make out.

Who needs the EEN's editorial? Look at the reality.

[lucky]

The Lochend butterfly scandal was in 2000 - Jenny Dawe was not in charge then (I'm not even sure if she was on the council). Without being too political about it, the difficulty for Hibs fans is that voting Dawe out and putting Labour in puts the lot who were truely anti Hibs back in, voting SNP makes Cardownie leader of the council - and I can't imagine the Tories being a likely contender or any more pro-Hibs than anyone else.

And for information the Evening News article was wrong (unsurprisingly) - Stefan Tymkewycz is not the only Hibby in the adminstration. Paul Edie is too: http://pauledie.blogspot.com/. I'm pretty sure there are other senior councillors (in all parties) who are Hibs supporters too. So it's nothing like the sort of organised conspiracy the News appears to be trying to make out.

Dawes and Cardownie have made a total arse of running Edinburgh so the pair of them should be booted out. Cardownie has over stepped the mark on this new stadium. He was also a senior councillor when Labour were in control. As tax payers we should be hounding him out of office

[Peevemor]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/taxpayers_liable_for_hearts_stadium_loan_1_1940569

[basehibby]

I'm maybe picking you up wrong on this but, my understanding of the Lochend Butterfly situation was that this was a piece of land that was NOT owned by Hibs but had potential for Hibs to purchase it and match it up with their own land (at the back of the East Stand) to be an excellent investment opportunity to help fund the development of Easter Road.

The "scandal" that Dawes alludes to, was that it was sold on the sly to another developer and it turned out (after the sale) that the stipulations for purchase had actually been changed during the bidding stage. I cant recall the exact ins and outs but it was something like bids had to be on the basis of "no stipulations" (which Hibs was) and the winning bid had stipulations based on "pending planning permission". When this came to light, Hibs tried to up their bid accordingly but were too they were too late and lost out.

There was a big stink about it at the time and accusations of council bias, back-handers and possibly even illegal practices.

Possibly illegal???

I fail to see how such an outcome could come about in any other way - the problem was in actually proving it from what I can gather. Currently there's a load of council employees under investigation for alleged illegal practices re compulsory works - maybe there's time yet :I'm waiti

[Part/Time Supporter]

At least this idiot Buchanan has let the cat out of the bag. CEC would have to pay for everything, bear all the risk and Hearts would have to pay a rent.

1. How much rent? How will this be calculated? Who will be responsible for maintenance? If the council is bearing all the risk, Hearts should have to enter a PFI-style contract, ie one where CEC will definitely make a profit within a reasonable time scale (say 10 years).

2. What guarantees do CEC have that Hearts would pay the rent over a long enough period to actually finance the cost to CEC? This is a club with a qualified audit report because their own auditors have never received a guarantee of continued funding to the club, who are dependent on a regular subsidy from a foreign third party and are notorious late payers.

3. What credit history do Hearts have with CEC, over say the last five years? Have they been late in paying their water / rates bills? If so, how can you rely on them paying rent?

[Benny Brazil]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/taxpayers_liable_for_hearts_stadium_loan_1_1940569

Finally someone actually starting to question this farce. Interesting comment from Tom Buchanan at the end of it which pretty much sums it up - Hearts want something for nothing with the taxpayer having to fund this for them, whilst they go ahead and sell *********** and keep the profits.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Has the council learned nothing from failed capex projects?
So soon after the trams debacle.
Im Surprised risk management isnt the watchword - the council take on ALL the risk both during and after. Vlads stance and history on payments and budgetary control are on record how in the hell can the council be seriously considering this.
Allied to Vlads stance on seemingly having his staff and suppliers by the short and curlies this is a recipe for success.

[Caversham Green]

Right, I think that's enough of that. In conclusion:

I made the vote public to minimise the amount of undercover yams that would vote. There's only one or two in there that I have my doubts about, but some surprises in all four choices - also some that were entirely predictable, but I'll name no names. I used the wording for the options because I could almost see me voting in any one of the four categories.

From a purely financial viewpoint the first option strikes me as the obvious one since it appears to benefit all three parties and there are few tangible drawbacks. In fact if it was in any other context I would be calling it a no-brainer (if I ever used that terrible expression). The third option appeals my gut feeling of distaste for both councillors and HoMFC, while if I was a season ticket holder the fourth option would appeal very strongly. I'm not though, I'm sitting down here in the South pontificating about the fortunes of a club four hundred miles away. Lawson-esque, but better looking.

To pontificate further, I chose the second option purely because I think the arrangement would benefit Hibs enormously from a financial point of view (to the tune of about £1m extra turnover per year I would guess). That it would also benefit Hearts and the council doesn't really interest me much, although my views might be different if I was a resident of Edinburgh. I think the £30,000 report prepared by Doig+Smith is incomplete if it hasn't considered the possibility and the council are negligent if they refuse to contemplate it. As has been mentioned in the thread Hearts and their support would probably not go for it, but that is for them and the council to explain rather than for us to assume.

If I was attending the AGM next week, I think I would still raise the issue despite the findings of this poll (if only because I'm always right), but maybe this is one revenue stream that the board should not be proactive in pursuing given that two thirds of the support are against it. I'll leave it to individual shareholders to decide whether it's worth raising the question.

[CentreLine]

I vote Yes I think it would be good for us and also ensure we retain the essential rivalry that keeps both clubs going. After all, football is supposed to be an entertainment not tribal warfare.

Added to that, we have an owner who may not be interested in football but he is certainly interested in people and the community. I think he would be very easy to persuade that this was a viable plan.

I would like to see hahahaheart leased the South Stand and for Hibs to create separate changing facilities, players tunnel etc within that stand. Most Hibs fans now see the south and the "away stand" now so it would not affect season ticket holders. When hahahahearts had home games they and their opposition would then enter the field of play from under the South Stand. There is certainly space there and it would ensure that they had responsibility for looking after the facilities. Excess wear on the playing surface can be controlled with the purchase of the “sun” light system we see at major grounds down south and which give the grass a fighting chance of recovery whatever the weather. I do not see any need to consider synthetic grass.

With good management and a return to an emphasis on entertainment we might just begin to see a reverse of the trend towards oblivion that Scottish football is staring in the face.

Yes I would welcome the prospect of ground share at the fantastic arena that is Easter Road but we need to take the facilites beyond even what we have at present. The potential is there we just need to realise it.

If City of Edinburgh council want to spend money on revitalising Edinburgh football then they should put money in to Easter Road to fill in the corners of the stadium and introduce a transport system that brings fans right to the ground via the former Easter Road Station. My first experience of a dedicated stadium tram stop was at the World Cup in Germany 1974. I cannot understand why, 40 years later, we have still to even achieve even those basic standards.

[PatHead]

Lets just forget Hearts are involved for a moment and look at the business case being presented.

If stadium costs say £25 million and council borrowed full amount to cover it (even if they didn't they would have to borrow money to fund other projects as they would have used all the taxpayers money on this project so effectively they have 100% loan) assuming an interest rate of 5% would mean monthly interest payments of around £100,000 would need to be found from rent between tenants and all the concerts they intend to hold. Remember this wouldn't even reduce the debt just interest, not to mention the cost of upkeep in a few years. In addition there is no mention of a running track in the plans so looks like the council would have to keep Meadowbank as well. his means funds would have to be found to keep Meadowbank going in addition to the West of Edinburgh project.

If I approached a bank with such a hairbrained scheme I would be chased out the door. That isn't even taking into account their credit history. Remember we are talking about a company that hasn't even paid its' wages last month and may have large tax liabilities.

Why do the council need to get involved at all? Hearts are a private company, let them rent from SRU or even come to Hibs or Livingston with a begging bowl. They have got themselves into this mess let them get themselves out of it. If not they should allow market forces to apply and the company go bust or let them reduce their overheads and live within their means. Why should I, as a council taxpayer, pay the dividends and salaries of Lituanian businessmen?

The council state they are helping a major local employer. How many employees do Hearts have in Edinburgh? How many are local or even Scottish?

Remember this is the same council that let Blindcraft with all of it's disabled employees go to the wall. Not to mention dozens of local projects and charities which will be deprived of funding. Which is the more deserving case- a company that pays many foreign employees tens of thousands of pounds or a company that is helping blind, local people? Any councillors reading this should hang their heads in shame whether they were involved or not. In addition MSPs and MPs should be asking about this proposal as it is a national disgrace.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i can see panorama doing a programme on the murky goings-on within Edinburgh city council, this cardownie character(and others i imagine) needs kicked in to touch

[cabbageandribs1875]

Lets just forget Hearts are involved for a moment and look at the business case being presented.

If stadium costs say £25 million and council borrowed full amount to cover it (even if they didn't they would have to borrow money to fund other projects as they would have used all the taxpayers money on this project so effectively they have 100% loan) assuming an interest rate of 5% would mean monthly interest payments of around £100,000 would need to be found from rent between tenants and all the concerts they intend to hold. Remember this wouldn't even reduce the debt just interest, not to mention the cost of upkeep in a few years. In addition there is no mention of a running track in the plans so looks like the council would have to keep Meadowbank as well. his means funds would have to be found to keep Meadowbank going in addition to the West of Edinburgh project.

If I approached a bank with such a hairbrained scheme I would be chased out the door. That isn't even taking into account their credit history. Remember we are talking about a company that hasn't even paid its' wages last month and may have large tax liabilities.

Why do the council need to get involved at all? Hearts are a private company, let them rent from SRU or even come to Hibs or Livingston with a begging bowl. They have got themselves into this mess let them get themselves out of it. If not they should allow market forces to apply and the company go bust or let them reduce their overheads and live within their means. Why should I, as a council taxpayer, pay the dividends and salaries of Lituanian businessmen?

The council state they are helping a major local employer. How many employees do Hearts have in Edinburgh? How many are local or even Scottish?

Remember this is the same council that let Blindcraft with all of it's disabled employees go to the wall. Not to mention dozens of local projects and charities which will be deprived of funding. Which is the more deserving case- a company that pays many foreign employees tens of thousands of pounds or a company that is helping blind, local people? Any councillors reading this should hang their heads in shame whether they were involved or not. In addition MSPs and MPs should be asking about this proposal as it is a national disgrace.


good post pathead

[Jack]

Taken from another thread but oh so relevant to this one, although I haven't seen it.


Daily Mail
The Russian-born banker has other sporting interests and has recently devoted much of his time to his Lithuanian basketball team Zalgiris Kaunas.
Spending tens of millions on a new arena and overseas players for Zalgiris, he last week fired the coach and assistant coach of the club, heightening concerns that his interest in Hearts is waning.


Why does Edinburgh have to shell out? :confused:

[truehibernian]

Hearts' and the CEC's argument appears to be the flimsy 'Hearts employ many people in Gorgie/Dalry' and then the good old 'tug of the heart strings' historical importance tagline.

Someone therefore should ask Jenny and Steve (sounds like a terrible adult version of Rosie and Jim), why in that case did they not offer to build the new Sainsbury's store there, or the Somerfield, Lidl or Coop...........given that they employ considerably more people in that area. How about CEC's offer to say the likes of Standard Life, Scottish Widows to build them a new HQ......ahhhh, I see, the offer wasn't forthcoming ! After all, organisations such as SL and SW employ thousands, offer community benefits to the areas they have offices, the organisations themselves sponsor and donate to local groups and associations............Hearts do a breakfast club.......wow !

Then examine the 'Community Stadium' - which community does it serve, other than supporters of Hearts and/or Edinburgh Rugby ? No running track means that say the likes of the Edinburgh School Sports Day, currently held at Meadowbank for all Edinburgh Schools, would still need to take place at Meadowbank. Would juvenile clubs be able to stage their Scottish Cup games/finals there...........very much doubt it as of course the integrity of the pitch would be comprimised and spoilt for important SPL and possible rugby games. Concerts - would people really want to travel to Sighthill for a concert ? The Edinburgh Festival has literally thousands of venues, The Corn Exchange is superb for bands, gigs and more central...........and Murrayfield already holds the wee monopoly (and expertise) of holding big stadium filler bands such as U2, Bon Jovi, Oasis etc. And again, it is bang in the centre of town. There is quite literally no business case with the excuses initially offered. There never will be in my opinion.

Any new stadium is purely, and I mean purely, going to be a new stadium for Heart of Midlothian, with precious little community use. The council, as I said before on the subject, have lagged criminally behind IMHO in upgrading and improving existing sports services/facilities. Take a look at Jack Kane, Warriston Playing Fields, Saughton Enclosure, Leith Links, Inverleith Park, St Marks Park........get these places upgraded and into the 21st century before ploughing tax payers money into an essentially private venture with a business whose crediblity and reputation for bad payment history and litigation is world reknowned. Has the council never asked Romanov where this all singing all dancing bank he was going to open in the city of Edinburgh is ? That would have employed people.......yet another promise failed to deliver on. To enter into such an arrangement would be utter madness and another laughing stock moment............that is why in my honest opinion, this stadium will not happen. I am very confident of that.

[IWasThere2016]

Dawe and Cardownie at ECC level then Salmond at Government level - watch this space with interest.

Swinney's a Yam also.

Re CEC borrowing, they can do so via the prudential scheme available to LAs and rates will be below 2% I'd imagine at this time.

[brog]

Stevie C's not had a Lithuanian bride yet has he?? Probably part of the deal. Seriously, I reckon this potential deal is only reason Vlad's still here. Can you imagine him in negotiations with the cooncil? It would be like Paul Newman ( The Hustler for younger members ) playing Mr Bean!!

[PatHead]

Swinney's a Yam also.

Re CEC borrowing, they can do so via the prudential scheme available to LAs and rates will be below 2% I'd imagine at this time.

Might be below 2% just now but doubtless will increase in time. Surely you have to budget long term, not just short term. Even at 2% rate you are looking at interest of £500000 a year on a building cost of £25m. Add on maintainance etc makes it a very expensive route.

[Franck is God]

I didn't vote merely because I didn't feel that I could back any of the options.

Prior to the redevelopment of ER I was in favour of a joint Edinburgh stadium that wouldn't have been Tynie or ER but a new ground for both clubs, I remember a site at Ingliston that was suggested at one point but that was way before Romanov got involved and Hibs were considering the move to Straiton.

I thought it would have been beneficial to both clubs being able to share the cost of running the ground, taking advantage of joint sponsorship deals for a purpose built stadium with training facilities and parking etc.

However because neither club opted for it in the past I can't see it ever happening now.

[Sammy7nil]

Might be below 2% just now but doubtless will increase in time. Surely you have to budget long term, not just short term. Even at 2% rate you are looking at interest of £500000 a year on a building cost of £25m. Add on maintainance etc makes it a very expensive route.

Skacel allegedely on around £10K pw so £500,000 would not frighten mr Vlad
I will be raging if the council bail them out

[Keith_M]

....

To pontificate further, I chose the second option purely because I think the arrangement would benefit Hibs enormously from a financial point of view (to the tune of about £1m extra turnover per year I would guess). That it would also benefit Hearts and the council doesn't really interest me much, although my views might be different if I was a resident of Edinburgh. I think the £30,000 report prepared by Doig+Smith is incomplete if it hasn't considered the possibility and the council are negligent if they refuse to contemplate it. As has been mentioned in the thread Hearts and their support would probably not go for it, but that is for them and the council to explain rather than for us to assume.

If I was attending the AGM next week, I think I would still raise the issue despite the findings of this poll (if only because I'm always right), but maybe this is one revenue stream that the board should not be proactive in pursuing given that two thirds of the support are against it. I'll leave it to individual shareholders to decide whether it's worth raising the question.

I voted against but, having read your reasoning, can see why at least proposing this as an option would be a good idea, from Hibs' point of view.

I'd even go so far as to say that if certain pre-requisites were in place (guarantees of rent payment, arrangement to fix damage to stadium, pitch protection) I wouldn't be completely unhappy about actually sharing with them.

[PatHead]

Skacel allegedely on around £10K pw so £500,000 would not frighten mr Vlad
I will be raging if the council bail them out

Haven't you noticed he hasn't been paid last month and it is often late!

[Albion Hibs]

A new community stadium would be used for Rugby and entertainment as well according the the quote in the scotsman. Point 1) WTF is Murrayfield for if not to play rugby in, 2) WTF is Murrayfield for if not to host entertainment as it does every single year? Is the council implying that they are looking to get rid of Murrayfield? Do they by chance own the statdium or the ground on which it sits?

If hearts stadium is not compliant for Euro games then how do they make it compliant? It can surely only be a question of the length and width of the pitch, in which case this could surely be resolved by removing rows from the away end and the one opposite, and widening the pitch towards any new bus shelter. The net effect of this is the stadium would be smaller, that would not in simplistic terms make it impossible, it just means they dont end up with something they want....or lets be honest Vlad cant sell it for housing. Thats is what this boils down to, this is his get out.

Why should the tax payer pick up the bill for another Murrayfield, on Council owned land that effectively performs the same function, but at a whole new up front and running cost to us, so that Hearts can sell there land, Vlad takes a huge land payment and leaves the club with no asset but a yearly charge as a rent to the council?

Surely the council have to come out and sack this idea all together.

Why dont they sell the land at Sighthill for housing, sell the office building next to Meadowbank and invest the money in the existing meadowbank stadium to allow for a modest stand for rugby (the gunners only get 1000 folk to each game) or a bigger stand to allow for entertainment events in a location close to the centre of town / rail links and public transport rather than somewhere on the periphery that will require either the use of cars or limited public transport....I wonder if there is a link to some form of tram benefit to them in here!

[Golden Bear]

Swinney's a Yam also.

Re CEC borrowing, they can do so via the prudential scheme available to LAs and rates will be below 2% I'd imagine at this time.


A couple of years ago in Local Government, Councils had to adopt the principles of a document entitled "Follow the Public Pound" which was produced by Audit Scotland.

One of the aims of this document was to ensure that Local Authorities made appropriate checks to ensure the financial integrity and transparency of organisations/third parties which they were considering for Partnership agreements. Thus Public money would to some extent be safeguarded.

If these principles still apply today then that alone should ensure that the proposal as it stands is a non starter.

[poolman]

Absolutely not

Twice a season is quite enough for these jakey tramps to infest ER :agree:

[easty]

Why dont they sell the land at Sighthill for housing

Eh....how about no. How about Sighthill Park is left as it is.:confused:

[PatHead]

Eh....how about no. How about Sighthill Park is left as it is.:confused:

The only benefit I can think of is that Hearts could never ever build a stadium on it. Sooner or later the council will want to cash in -look at Portobello Golf course.

[gringojoe]

sell the office building next to Meadowbank

Be in a bit of trouble if they sold the building as they don't own it.

[heretoday]

Naming rights is a big thing now. So it's gonna be the Wonga Stadium then?

[southfieldhibby]

The only benefit I can think of is that Hearts could never ever build a stadium on it. Sooner or later the council will want to cash in -look at Portobello Golf course.

Couple of points.

Portobello golf course is not ( and never will be) being used for housing/schooling/any type of building.It's held as common good land and selling it for housing is legally impossible.

Portobello park, which is adjacent to porty gc, will be the site of the new portobello high school.That land is also common good land, but the high court deems a new high school to fit the criteria of common good.So nothing like selling council 'owned' land for housing.

I've heard suggestions that the ****s are eyeing up Carrickknowe golf course as a possible site, and EDC have stated recently that there is an over-provision of council ran golf courses in the city (porty gc was originally muted as housing until the common good aspect was discovered, it might (might) be converted into council ran allotments as there is a big demand with little available) anyway, it would be interesting to know how the council came to own Carrickknowe and whether is was disposed of/donated to the council with the same common good stipulation porty came with.

[PatHead]

Couple of points.

Portobello golf course is not ( and never will be) being used for housing/schooling/any type of building.It's held as common good land and selling it for housing is legally impossible.

Portobello park, which is adjacent to porty gc, will be the site of the new portobello high school.That land is also common good land, but the high court deems a new high school to fit the criteria of common good.So nothing like selling council 'owned' land for housing.

I've heard suggestions that the ****s are eyeing up Carrickknowe golf course as a possible site, and EDC have stated recently that there is an over-provision of council ran golf courses in the city (porty gc was originally muted as housing until the common good aspect was discovered, it might (might) be converted into council ran allotments as there is a big demand with little available) anyway, it would be interesting to know how the council came to own Carrickknowe and whether is was disposed of/donated to the council with the same common good stipulation porty came with.

Sorry I stand corrected. Understood Portobello GC was moving to Joppa with St John's Primary moving to that site.

As for "it will never be" same happened in Dalkeith on the closure of St David's High School due to a legal dispute as to the conditions on the land (must be for common good when it was gifted from Newbattle Abbey Estate x years before)........now housing. Always keep an eye on it.

[southfieldhibby]

Sorry I stand corrected. Understood Portobello GC was moving to Joppa with St John's Primary moving to that site.

As for "it will never be" same happened in Dalkeith on the closure of St David's High School due to a legal dispute as to the conditions on the land (must be for common good when it was gifted from Newbattle Abbey Estate x years before)........now housing. Always keep an eye on it.

St.John's might be getting a slice of the old PHS playground.

As for building on Porty GC, the nimby element would simply never allow it, Porty is the centre of all acronyms against anything!

[Jack]

Couple of points.

Portobello golf course is not ( and never will be) being used for housing/schooling/any type of building.It's held as common good land and selling it for housing is legally impossible.

Portobello park, which is adjacent to porty gc, will be the site of the new portobello high school.That land is also common good land, but the high court deems a new high school to fit the criteria of common good.So nothing like selling council 'owned' land for housing.

I've heard suggestions that the ****s are eyeing up Carrickknowe golf course as a possible site, and EDC have stated recently that there is an over-provision of council ran golf courses in the city (porty gc was originally muted as housing until the common good aspect was discovered, it might (might) be converted into council ran allotments as there is a big demand with little available) anyway, it would be interesting to know how the council came to own Carrickknowe and whether is was disposed of/donated to the council with the same common good stipulation porty came with.

Just one thing there Southfieldhibby.

The area now covered by Princes Mall at Waverly Satation is Common Good land. It didn’t stop the council leasing it out for 100 (maybe 99) years for commercial purposes. The full price of the 100 year lease was £1.

[southfieldhibby]

Just one thing there Southfieldhibby.

The area now covered by Princes Mall at Waverly Satation is Common Good land. It didn’t stop the council leasing it out for 100 (maybe 99) years for commercial purposes. The full price of the 100 year lease was £1.

That may be so Jack, but that's a lease as opposed to selling the land, irrespective of the value attached to the lease.And if the deal was done for the old Waverley Centre, things have moved on from then with information easily and more readily available.And there is also a slight difference when dealing with city centre brownfield and further out greenfield in peoples eyes.

Anyway, I digressed a wee bit from the topic of this thread.I'll be interested to see where (if anywhere) the council offer up and how the local community react to losing greenspace.

[Bobo]

Naming rights is a big thing now. So it's gonna be the Wonga Stadium then?

How could Hearts sell naming rights to a stadium that they don't own, "a Community Stadium" that they would be paying rent on and supposedly sharing with various other sports and "Community" projects?

Personally hope this whole thing ends up dead in the water and the Yams with it, been waiting too long now for their demise.

[LancashireHibby]

How could Hearts sell naming rights to a stadium that they don't own, "a Community Stadium" that they would be paying rent on and supposedly sharing with various other sports and "Community" projects?

Personally hope this whole thing ends up dead in the water and the Yams with it, been waiting too long now for their demise.

The naming rights could be sold and the proceeds go to the Stadium Management Company, of which presumably Hearts would be a stakeholder.

[Jack]

I cant be bothered going through the whole thread again but someone mentioned Stevie boy declaring an interest of directors box hospitality at £50 a pop.

A close acquaintance :rolleyes: of mine takes top hospitality at Tynie each game, which I reckon is as close a product a punter can get to directors box hospitality – certainly sounds very similar. £170 (maybe £180) a time.

[JimBHibees]

Vlad is shrewd he knows that the Council wont be able to sanction this on the back of the Tram fiasco and also the loads of jobs / charities that are currently being lost. This is his excuse to get out IMO. Why cant they upgrade Tynecastle and why is this new council stadium seen as the only option when it clearly isnt for a multi million pound businessman? This is a smokescreen for him leaving IMO.

[Albion Hibs]

Eh....how about no. How about Sighthill Park is left as it is.:confused:

Could not really care less about sighthill park. But you missed the point it was rather than replcate an existing service it was about using assets that are proposed to be lost and re-investing in an existing asset.

[Kato]

Vlad is shrewd he knows that the Council wont be able to sanction this on the back of the Tram fiasco and also the loads of jobs / charities that are currently being lost. This is his excuse to get out IMO. Why cant they upgrade Tynecastle and why is this new council stadium seen as the only option when it clearly isnt for a multi million pound businessman? This is a smokescreen for him leaving IMO.

You're probably bang-on.

[tamig]

If hearts stadium is not compliant for Euro games then how do they make it compliant? It can surely only be a question of the length and width of the pitch, in which case this could surely be resolved by removing rows from the away end and the one opposite, and widening the pitch towards any new bus shelter. The net effect of this is the stadium would be smaller, that would not in simplistic terms make it impossible, it just means they dont end up with something they want....or lets be honest Vlad cant sell it for housing. Thats is what this boils down to, this is his get out.



Not quite so simple albion. I'm sure they've already done that. The only option left is to eat into the big pink pillars. And the whole lot would come crashing down. they can't make the pitch any bigger. What a shame.:na na:

[Jack]

A new community stadium would be used for Rugby and entertainment as well according the the quote in the scotsman. Point 1) WTF is Murrayfield for if not to play rugby in, 2) WTF is Murrayfield for if not to host entertainment as it does every single year? Is the council implying that they are looking to get rid of Murrayfield? Do they by chance own the statdium or the ground on which it sits?If hearts stadium is not compliant for Euro games then how do they make it compliant? It can surely only be a question of the length and width of the pitch, in which case this could surely be resolved by removing rows from the away end and the one opposite, and widening the pitch towards any new bus shelter. The net effect of this is the stadium would be smaller, that would not in simplistic terms make it impossible, it just means they dont end up with something they want....or lets be honest Vlad cant sell it for housing. Thats is what this boils down to, this is his get out. Why should the tax payer pick up the bill for another Murrayfield, on Council owned land that effectively performs the same function, but at a whole new up front and running cost to us, so that Hearts can sell there land, Vlad takes a huge land payment and leaves the club with no asset but a yearly charge as a rent to the council?Surely the council have to come out and sack this idea all together. Why dont they sell the land at Sighthill for housing, sell the office building next to Meadowbank and invest the money in the existing meadowbank stadium to allow for a modest stand for rugby (the gunners only get 1000 folk to each game) or a bigger stand to allow for entertainment events in a location close to the centre of town / rail links and public transport rather than somewhere on the periphery that will require either the use of cars or limited public transport....I wonder if there is a link to some form of tram benefit to them in here! IIRC the reason they cannot extend the pitch is something to do with the floodlights and their pylons holding up the stand roof. Now I've not been there for so many years so exactly how that works I don't remember.

[Albion Hibs]

Not quite so simple albion. I'm sure they've already done that. The only option left is to eat into the big pink pillars. And the whole lot would come crashing down. they can't make the pitch any bigger. What a shame.:na na:

Tragically unfortunate for them, however, I do not believe there is not an engineering/construction solution, it will just be really expensive! The champions league revenue will help and I am sure the CEC mob will be just as happy to give them a few quid.

Summary is surely it is their ground, their problem, their cash that should sort it, not mine and every other tax payers. If the council think that sticking the word "community" in the mix is going to change anyones opinion then they are almost as deluded as Vlad.

[Peevemor]

The thing about the pitch being too small is entirely their fault. How many stadia have been rebuilt since the Taylor report and how many now have this problem?

Mercer kicked off the rebuilding process and at that time either HMFC or their Architects screwed up big style.

[Barney McGrew]

The thing about the pitch being too small is entirely their fault

It's also a massive red herring. As has already been pointed out by others, only two of Hertz matches in Europe since Vlad turned up had to be moved. Hertz CHOSE to move the other games to Murrayfield to maximise their income from gate receipts, and I bet they would do the same again if they were in the same position.

Who's to say they wouldn't do the same again even if they got their new super duper shiny yam dome?

[greenginger]

IIRC the reason they cannot extend the pitch is something to do with the floodlights and their pylons holding up the stand roof. Now I've not been there for so many years so exactly how that works I don't remember.


There is nothing that can't be altered to make the pitch EUFA compliant. Just a bit of engineering !

The Roseburn stand can be demolished and rebuilt 20 feet nearer the school and the supporting truss of Wheatfield stand extended.

Demolish and rebuild the Asbestos stand with same capacity .

All it would take is a little time and a lot of cash but the Hearts don't see why they should pay for their ground when they've got their own pet Councilors willing to spend our money on their behalf.

[Hibs07p]

It's not going to happen,

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/scotland/hearts_have_no_chance_of_multi_million_council_loa n_for_stadium_1_1942184

SENIOR councillors have cast doubt over the prospect of Edinburgh city council helping Hearts to build a super-stadium on the outskirts of the city by rejecting the key recommendation of a joint study which has forced the club to quit Tynecastle.

They have told The Scotsman they are not prepared to allow the council to borrow millions to finance a new ground for a stadium that the authority would then own.

[Kato]

Mercer kicked off the rebuilding process and at that time either HMFC or their Architects screwed up big style.

I remember bits of that from the time. The budget given the architects meant that the supports for the stands are also used for the floodlights. Hearts/Mercer whoever complained about this at the drawing stage but shut-up when it was explained to them what the cost was to change this. They also didn't think about Corporate facilities until after building commenced which explains why they are so poor at that ground.

The newer bits of Tynie are basically flimsy lean-tos with a death-trap Archie Leach anachronism attached - the bus shelter analogy isn't all that off beam as well because, to use a technical term, "it smells of wee-wee".

[cabbageandribs1875]

It's not going to happen,

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/scotland/hearts_have_no_chance_of_multi_million_council_loa n_for_stadium_1_1942184

SENIOR councillors have cast doubt over the prospect of Edinburgh city council helping Hearts to build a super-stadium on the outskirts of the city by rejecting the key recommendation of a joint study which has forced the club to quit Tynecastle.

They have told The Scotsman they are not prepared to allow the council to borrow millions to finance a new ground for a stadium that the authority would then own.

the bit in bold, i think i'l wait on prime minister cardownie telling us that before i get excited, i would also like him to explain how the council will collect the £15K owed to them by the wonga boys


Opposition councillors are demanding an investigation into how the study was commissioned without approval from councillors, and which officials have been helping the club to draw up the plans.


should be quite interesting :agree:



Hearts want the council to commission a full business case before the end of the year.



who the *$&" do they *%&*% think they are :crazy:

[MrSmith]

Got a little drunk on Friday night Saturday morning and must have emailed Jenny Dawes at the Council....

Anyhoo, good on her for replying!

Dear Drew

COMMUNITY STADIUM

Thank you for your email of 29 October regarding coverage that has been
given to a suggestion that a community stadium be explored in the west
of Edinburgh. I apologise for the delay in providing you with a
substantive response.

You may be interested to know that at last week's meeting of The City of
Edinburgh Council I expressed my concern at this idea. I had no
knowledge that the proposition was being investigated and it is not
something that I would be minded to support.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am totally committed to the Council
operating in an even-handed basis in relation to the two major football
clubs in the city, and indeed in its interactions with every
institution. Whilst I personally support Hearts, my partner is a
long-standing season ticket holder at Easter Road. I have, in relation
to previous Council business, previously supported the position of Hibs
- for example, with regard to the Lochend Butterfly.

I have asked for further information regarding the origins and status of
this proposal. Please be reassured that I will take a very close
involvement in this matter and, as mentioned, that I am not persuaded
that there is a case for Council partnering in a community stadium with
one of the football clubs in the city.

I hope this is helpful: please, however, do not hesitate to contact me
if I can be of any further assistance.

Kind regards



Jenny

Councillor Jenny Dawe
Leader - The City of Edinburgh Council

[cabbageandribs1875]

Got a little drunk on Friday night Saturday morning and must have emailed Jenny Dawes at the Council....

Anyhoo, good on her for replying!

Dear Drew






Councillor Jenny Dawe
Leader - The City of Edinburgh Council

exact same reply a PM received, only the recipient's name is different :)

[clerriehibs]

Got a little drunk on Friday night Saturday morning and must have emailed Jenny Dawes at the Council....

Anyhoo, good on her for replying!

Dear Drew

COMMUNITY STADIUM

Thank you for your email of 29 October regarding coverage that has been
given to a suggestion that a community stadium be explored in the west
of Edinburgh. I apologise for the delay in providing you with a
substantive response.

You may be interested to know that at last week's meeting of The City of
Edinburgh Council I expressed my concern at this idea. I had no
knowledge that the proposition was being investigated and it is not
something that I would be minded to support.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am totally committed to the Council
operating in an even-handed basis in relation to the two major football
clubs in the city, and indeed in its interactions with every
institution. Whilst I personally support Hearts, my partner is a
long-standing season ticket holder at Easter Road. I have, in relation
to previous Council business, previously supported the position of Hibs
- for example, with regard to the Lochend Butterfly.

I have asked for further information regarding the origins and status of
this proposal. Please be reassured that I will take a very close
involvement in this matter and, as mentioned, that I am not persuaded
that there is a case for Council partnering in a community stadium with
one of the football clubs in the city.

I hope this is helpful: please, however, do not hesitate to contact me
if I can be of any further assistance.

Kind regards



Jenny

Councillor Jenny Dawe
Leader - The City of Edinburgh Council

eh,, hud oan a minute,, Jenny ... councillors' partners are also getting a direct line to decision making now as well???

Not that that's a bad thing in this particular case ... :greengrin

[1875er]

"City Kicks out Hearts Stadium Plan"

Not good reading for our Yam chums, basically the Council have stated that they have neither the money nor desire to build a Community Stadium for our unfortunate neighbours... including some great quotes for the Councils Economic Development chief !!

Whats Plan "C" Mr Romanov????

:faf::faf::faf:

[FastEddieFelson]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/around-the-capital/council_s_economic_leader_rules_out_funding_new_he arts_ground_1_1942890

[Northernhibee]

Let's hope Andy Webster knows how to play basketball.

[Sergy Pie]

Interesting that his latest rant on their site coincides with this piece of news. This Council rejection would have reached him before the Evening News article which may be the cause of his outburst.

Nice to eventually hear a conclusive and logical answer from the council.

[iwasthere1972]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/around-the-capital/council_s_economic_leader_rules_out_funding_new_he arts_ground_1_1942890

Does that mean Hearts have wasted £15K in a meaningless report. Great news if true. :aok:

[James Connolly]

Tick Tock

[steakbake]

Is there not a scandal that the council wasted 15k of tax payers cash looking in to whether it would be appropriate for them to part-fund a private company's premises?

I'd have given them an answer for free.

[The_Famous_HFC]

According to this it sounds like the council are still open to swapping or giving hearts land to build a stadium that they find themselves? Especially the part at the end when the same councillor discusses possible venues.

[Peevemor]

“We are not here to fund a private company, but we do need to know what is do-able in and around Tynecastle.


“If they do move anywhere else, that’s a major site that comes on the market. Are there restrictions on housing there? What value does the site have in terms of housing? How are Hearts going to fund their new stadium?


“It’s only through doing some consultancy work like this that we are able to get an idea of whether what they want is do-able.”


What a load of crap!

If Hearts were to pinpoint a site for their stadium, then it's suitability would be a matter for consultation with the Planning Department. If Tynecastle was then put on the market, the Planning Department would revise their Local Plan accordingly.

I see no reason whatsoever for the CEC to (half) commission an independant report unless they had the idea of a cummunity stadium in mind.

Did the CEC go halfers on a report with Standard Life before they closed down Tanfield? Or with Hibs for Straiton or even the fomer car park? Or with Eddie Ramsay for Powderhall stadium?

I thought not.

[iwasthere1972]

Cllr Buchanan agreed the site would not be suitable for Hearts. He said: “We will not be revisiting Sighthill. There is not the land there for the stadium Hearts would need.

“Even with the best public transport system in the world, people would still want to go by car – there is just not the land at Sighthill.”

Sure they could squeeze a stadium in somewhere and also "Park and Ride" facilities. The latter would appeal to all Yams especially that Craig guy who came back from Lithunania.

[maturehibby]

Wonder what kind of a landlord we are going to be when the out of a home bankrupt team from Gorgie have to play their games at ER as we are the only viable place for them to go to within the city as Murrayfield wont let them play there regularly .
My best laugh will be them all having to sit on Green seats green decor and all the Hibs memorabelia throughout the ground that they cant destroy as they would then be playing at Saughton Enclosure and of course the rental would assist Rod to buy in a whole load of better class players for us (if only)

[johnrebus]

Wonder what kind of a landlord we are going to be when the out of a home bankrupt team from Gorgie have to play their games at ER as we are the only viable place for them to go to within the city as Murrayfield wont let them play there regularly .
My best laugh will be them all having to sit on Green seats green decor and all the Hibs memorabelia throughout the ground that they cant destroy as they would then be playing at Saughton Enclosure and of course the rental would assist Rod to buy in a whole load of better class players for us (if only)


Better for them to use Livingston.

Don't want these smelly tramps anywhere near the Holy Ground.


:taxi

[iwasthere1972]

Wonder what kind of a landlord we are going to be when the out of a home bankrupt team from Gorgie have to play their games at ER as we are the only viable place for them to go to within the city as Murrayfield wont let them play there regularly .
My best laugh will be them all having to sit on Green seats green decor and all the Hibs memorabelia throughout the ground that they cant destroy as they would then be playing at Saughton Enclosure and of course the rental would assist Rod to buy in a whole load of better class players for us (if only)

May even see more pubs opening up in Leith if they are going to do good business every week of the season. The established ones could hike the prices up for the visit of the Yams and reduce them when Hibs are playing at Easter Road.

It's a win, win, win situation for all. Oh except the tramps. :greengrin

[clerriehibs]

What a load of crap!

If Hearts were to pinpoint a site for their stadium, then it's suitability would be a matter for consultation with the Planning Department. If Tynecastle was then put on the market, the Planning Department would revise their Local Plan accordingly.

I see no reason whatsoever for the CEC to (half) commission an independant report unless they had the idea of a cummunity stadium in mind.

Did the CEC go halfers on a report with Standard Life before they closed down Tanfield? Or with Hibs for Straiton or even the fomer car park? Or with Eddie Ramsay for Powderhall stadium?

I thought not.

:agree:

He still doesn't clearly explain the need for the council to have spent £15k ... something still stinks here.

[clerriehibs]

Does that mean Hearts have wasted £15K in a meaningless report. Great news if true. :aok:

Are you suggesting hearts pay their bills?

[iwasthere1972]

Are you suggesting hearts pay their bills?


Silly me. :doh:

[poolman]

Is City Park still available :greengrin


http://i42.tinypic.com/152not3.jpg

[MotherSuperior]

At last some sensible noises coming from the council :)

[lapsedhibee]

At last some sensible noises coming from the council :)

Still to find out who poured our £30,000 down the drain though ...

[Holmesdale Hibs]

The downwards spiral to administration and the first division (if they're lucky) has well and truley begun. I hope its a long drawn out deterioration because I will actaully miss laughing at them.

[HibbyDave]

think anyone can ask for detail of public expenditure under the freedom of info act.

[iwasthere1972]

Is City Park still available :greengrin


http://i42.tinypic.com/152not3.jpg

Couldn't help noticing that you "photoshopped" the Tynie stand onto City Park. Good work. :aok:

[Golden Bear]

Still to find out who poured our £30,000 down the drain though ...

I strongly suspect that Cardownie will be the instigator of the proposal and ECC's Director of Planning will have authorised the expenditure.

[--------]

Is there not a scandal that the council wasted 15k of tax payers cash looking in to whether it would be appropriate for them to part-fund a private company's premises?

I'd have given them an answer for free.


It's normal for the convener of a committee to be allowed to spend up to a fixed limit on business that concerns the council as a whole. I don't think Buchanan has acted improperly - it's quite possible that Hearts were making noises about contributing to the scheme, and then when the report arrived it became clear that they were expecting the Council to build them a free stadium to play in, and expected to be allowed to stipulate the design as well (as in, no athletics track, Hearts logo all over the place, and the primary colour being that appalling shade of bloody flux they seem to think so highly of.

I would surmise that Hearts assumed that the Jambos on the Council - Messrs Buchanan and Cardownie among them) would roll over and allow the thing to go through without discussion. Maybe that's how they do things in Lithuania. I would also surmise that the councillors in question have had a fuller than usual mailbag in the past fortnight, which has given them pause for thought. It's also quite likely that Vlad has found out that not all Jambos on EDC are open to bribery.

The quote in red suggests that Councillor Buchanan at least has understood the principles of public service - even-handedness and openness.
So it appears that problems are mounting for our antisocial neighbours. The Council aren't going to give them a stadium, UEFA are tightening the regulations on what is and is not a real football stadium, the SPFA may very well advise their unpaid players to walk out and find themselves a real (i.e. PAYING) club to play for, and Vladdy's no talking to the media cos they're no nice to Hearts...

Oh, yes, and wait for the press coverage they'll get if they decide to bring a certain full-back back to the slag-heap from Kaunas. :devil:

A pity we couldn't get Social Services to slap a compulsary removal on them and ship them out to Rockall or Unst or somewhere.

Today, Councillor Buchanan – himself a Hearts supporter – said: “There was a recommendation that the council consider a community stadium with Hearts. That’s not what we will be agreeing. It was a consultant’s idea. It will be not coming back before the council as a serious option.”

Hearts are said to have expected the council to provide a site for a stadium and pay for its construction, with the club becoming a tenant.

Cllr Buchanan said the council had a clear interest in any plans by Hearts to relocate from Tynecastle and the future of that site.

He said: “It’s clear Uefa regulations are going to get tougher and tighter and Tynecastle, which I think is a fantastic stadium with an excellent atmosphere, cannot grow to accommodate the rules.

“We are not here to fund a private company, but we do need to know what is do-able in and around Tynecastle.

“If they do move anywhere else, that’s a major site that comes on the market. Are there restrictions on housing there? What value does the site have in terms of housing? How are Hearts going to fund their new stadium?

“It’s only through doing some consultancy work like this that we are able to get an idea of whether what they want is do-able.”

He added: “We have not got the capital funding to be investing any money in a stadium for Hearts and why should we if we’re not investing similar money for the other major club in the city?”

Asked if the council would borrow to fund a new stadium, he said: “Absolutely not.”



According to this it sounds like the council are still open to swapping or giving hearts land to build a stadium that they find themselves? Especially the part at the end when the same councillor discusses possible venues.

If Hearts decide to dispose of the slag-heap, don't they have to put it on the open market? They have creditors (other than UKIO) who would expect to be fully paid from the sale of the dump, and even if they did get market value - unlikely since everyone, his auntie and his dog know that they HAVE to move sometime soon and they ain't going to be offering top dollar - the site isn't that big and there's a lot of work to be done demolishing the tin sheds and disposing of the toxic waste.

And meanwhile - there's the question of the safety of the "Main Stand" roof... :devil:

Buchanan seems to me to be talking about what to do with the site once the shanties collapse (any day now, from what I've heard) and what a prospective buyer would be allowed to do with the land. An exchange would be on the cards - I suppose if Hibs were looking to move from ER the same would be the case - but where in the Big Burny-Burny would Hearts find the money to fund a new stadium themselves? Four modern stands bigger than ER's? (They'd have to be bigger than ours - they're the BIG TEAM, after all.) On a new site requiring access-roads, car-parking and spectator facilities? (I know they don't need toilets for the home fans, and a big barn with swill-troughs would do for the catering, but away supporters tend to have higher expectations than the Root Vegetables. One stand at least would have to be built to normal civilised standards.)

This has cheered me up no end. :faf:



:flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

[poolman]

Couldn't help noticing that you "photoshopped" the Tynie stand onto City Park. Good work. :aok:


Thon stand at City Park is probably safer than the asbestos one at pinkcastle :agree:

[iwasthere1972]

Thon stand at City Park is probably safer than the asbestos one at pinkcastle :agree:

I don't really want to pick holes in the Tynecastle stand. :wink:

[--------]

Wonder what kind of a landlord we are going to be when the out of a home bankrupt team from Gorgie have to play their games at ER as we are the only viable place for them to go to within the city as Murrayfield wont let them play there regularly .
My best laugh will be them all having to sit on Green seats green decor and all the Hibs memorabelia throughout the ground that they cant destroy as they would then be playing at Saughton Enclosure and of course the rental would assist Rod to buy in a whole load of better class players for us (if only)


Better for them to use Livingston.

Don't want these smelly tramps anywhere near the Holy Ground.


:taxi


As you say, mate. But I don't want them a few miles down the road from me at Livi either. Could we not just drop them down a disused coal-mine somewhere?

[inglisavhibs]

Amazing what a few hundred e-mails to the council can do
http://www.hibs.net/images/icons/icon12.png

Congratulations to all who wrote. We can still demand to see the £30k report on the bus shelter though. Under the freedom of information act they are obliged to show it to anybody who asks to see it. Any volunteers?




"City Kicks out Hearts Stadium Plan"

Not good reading for our Yam chums, basically the Council have stated that they have neither the money nor desire to build a Community Stadium for our unfortunate neighbours... including some great quotes for the Councils Economic Development chief !!

Whats Plan "C" Mr Romanov????

:faf::faf::faf:

[Albion Hibs]

In fairness to the Council they have come out and set the record straight beyond any doubt it would seem. I was very critical of them over the past few days so it seems only fair that I acknowledge that they have responded pretty promptly and clearly to this whole matter.

Whilst it is not good news that 15k of the tax payers money has been waisted supporting a private company, it would seem that one or two councillors are responsbile for that rather than the whole lot of them, so I will be reasonable and not tar them all with the same brush.

Oh dear little Vladamir...what next?!

[CentreLine]

What a change in attitudes a couple of generations makes. In 1947/48 we were prepared to lend players to hahahahearts in order to get them out of a mess. Up to the 1970's we used to field a joint Edinburgh Team against Munich in a summer friendly. What ever happened to that community spirit. I think we should ground share with them, allow them to lease the south stand and have their own facilities under there with a players tunnel of their own. After all, we all see it as the "away stand". Football in Edinburgh will always be better for having two rival teams and football in Scotland will always be better for having two teams in Edinburgh.

[NOLA]

He added: “We have not got the capital funding to be investing any money in a stadium for Hearts and why should we if we’re not investing similar money for the other major club in the city? sense at last.

[inglisavhibs]

What a change in attitudes a couple of generations makes. In 1947/48 we were prepared to lend players to hahahahearts in order to get them out of a mess. Up to the 1970's we used to field a joint Edinburgh Team against Munich in a summer friendly. What ever happened to that community spirit. I think we should ground share with them, allow them to lease the south stand and have their own facilities under there with a players tunnel of their own. After all, we all see it as the "away stand". Football in Edinburgh will always be better for having two rival teams and football in Scotland will always be better for having two teams in Edinburgh.

That's when Hearts were Hearts, not Romanov's Hearts.

[Seveno]

It's high time that we showed a bit of sympathy for our brothers across the city and tried to help them out.

STF owns some land that would be very suitable for their new stadium. It's called Inchkeith Island.

[Gettin' Auld]

He added: “We have not got the capital funding to be investing any money in a stadium for Hearts and why should we if we’re not investing similar money for the other major club in the city? sense at last.

To which some fud on Brokeback replied - "If Hearts were the ONLY team in Edinburgh we would not be having this problem"

It's all OUR fault!! :tee hee:

[Dashing Bob S]

It's normal for the convener of a committee to be allowed to spend up to a fixed limit on business that concerns the council as a whole. I don't think Buchanan has acted improperly - it's quite possible that Hearts were making noises about contributing to the scheme, and then when the report arrived it became clear that they were expecting the Council to build them a free stadium to play in, and expected to be allowed to stipulate the design as well (as in, no athletics track, Hearts logo all over the place, and the primary colour being that appalling shade of bloody flux they seem to think so highly of.

I would surmise that Hearts assumed that the Jambos on the Council - Messrs Buchanan and Cardownie among them) would roll over and allow the thing to go through without discussion. Maybe that's how they do things in Lithuania. I would also surmise that the councillors in question have had a fuller than usual mailbag in the past fortnight, which has given them pause for thought. It's also quite likely that Vlad has found out that not all Jambos on EDC are open to bribery.

The quote in red suggests that Councillor Buchanan at least has understood the principles of public service - even-handedness and openness.
So it appears that problems are mounting for our antisocial neighbours. The Council aren't going to give them a stadium, UEFA are tightening the regulations on what is and is not a real football stadium, the SPFA may very well advise their unpaid players to walk out and find themselves a real (i.e. PAYING) club to play for, and Vladdy's no talking to the media cos they're no nice to Hearts...

Oh, yes, and wait for the press coverage they'll get if they decide to bring a certain full-back back to the slag-heap from Kaunas. :devil:

A pity we couldn't get Social Services to slap a compulsary removal on them and ship them out to Rockall or Unst or somewhere.

Today, Councillor Buchanan – himself a Hearts supporter – said: “There was a recommendation that the council consider a community stadium with Hearts. That’s not what we will be agreeing. It was a consultant’s idea. It will be not coming back before the council as a serious option.”

Hearts are said to have expected the council to provide a site for a stadium and pay for its construction, with the club becoming a tenant.

Cllr Buchanan said the council had a clear interest in any plans by Hearts to relocate from Tynecastle and the future of that site.

He said: “It’s clear Uefa regulations are going to get tougher and tighter and Tynecastle, which I think is a fantastic stadium with an excellent atmosphere, cannot grow to accommodate the rules.

“We are not here to fund a private company, but we do need to know what is do-able in and around Tynecastle.

“If they do move anywhere else, that’s a major site that comes on the market. Are there restrictions on housing there? What value does the site have in terms of housing? How are Hearts going to fund their new stadium?

“It’s only through doing some consultancy work like this that we are able to get an idea of whether what they want is do-able.”

He added: “We have not got the capital funding to be investing any money in a stadium for Hearts and why should we if we’re not investing similar money for the other major club in the city?”

Asked if the council would borrow to fund a new stadium, he said: “Absolutely not.”




If Hearts decide to dispose of the slag-heap, don't they have to put it on the open market? They have creditors (other than UKIO) who would expect to be fully paid from the sale of the dump, and even if they did get market value - unlikely since everyone, his auntie and his dog know that they HAVE to move sometime soon and they ain't going to be offering top dollar - the site isn't that big and there's a lot of work to be done demolishing the tin sheds and disposing of the toxic waste.

And meanwhile - there's the question of the safety of the "Main Stand" roof... :devil:

Buchanan seems to me to be talking about what to do with the site once the shanties collapse (any day now, from what I've heard) and what a prospective buyer would be allowed to do with the land. An exchange would be on the cards - I suppose if Hibs were looking to move from ER the same would be the case - but where in the Big Burny-Burny would Hearts find the money to fund a new stadium themselves? Four modern stands bigger than ER's? (They'd have to be bigger than ours - they're the BIG TEAM, after all.) On a new site requiring access-roads, car-parking and spectator facilities? (I know they don't need toilets for the home fans, and a big barn with swill-troughs would do for the catering, but away supporters tend to have higher expectations than the Root Vegetables. One stand at least would have to be built to normal civilised standards.)

This has cheered me up no end. :faf:



:flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

Great post as usual, Doddie, plenty of common sense there. My reading is a wee bit less charitable than yours. Here goes: I'm sure Vlad, through Cardownie, who introduced him to Hearts, has been drip-feeding threats to the council about pulling the plug on HoMFC for some time. He's basically skint, wasting money, his passions lie elsewhere, the club aren't producing sellable players in a transfer market which has all but dried up in the .25mill to 3 mill range, and the ground is worth not so much a block of flats as a bar of soap these days.

Cardownie (especially, given his role in bringing Vlad over here), Buchanan and Dawe all want to save some kind of face and be seen to be doing something to save the revolting enterprise when it all goes mammaries skywards, thus the 15k survey costs.

This 'community stadium' dream represents the last chance saloon of the Vlad regime, but it was always politically a non-starter as long as he was in charge. I think what we have to closely watch out for is the council's role in any post-Vlad reconstruction of Hearts, and ensure that our club is at least as rewarded for our sound business and finance practices as their's is for their economic lunacy and base corruption.

In the meantime, there could be a nasty Jambo civil war to enjoy, as Vlad and the Council point fingers at each other, apportioning the blame for the demise of a once, always and still sh-ite institution. At least some things never change.

[Dashing Bob S]

Better for them to use Livingston.

Don't want these smelly tramps anywhere near the Holy Ground.


:taxi

Agree totally. I've long felt that Livingston was their natural, inevitable home. They can't go far enough west for my liking.

http://www.departures.com/articles/livingston-montana

[Hibercelona]

To which some fud on Brokeback replied - "If Hearts were the ONLY team in Edinburgh we would not be having this problem"

It's all OUR fault!! :tee hee:

I'm glad they think so. At least when they go down the pan, they'll believe it was by our hands. :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

What a change in attitudes a couple of generations makes. In 1947/48 we were prepared to lend players to hahahahearts in order to get them out of a mess. Up to the 1970's we used to field a joint Edinburgh Team against Munich in a summer friendly. What ever happened to that community spirit. I think we should ground share with them, allow them to lease the south stand and have their own facilities under there with a players tunnel of their own. After all, we all see it as the "away stand". Football in Edinburgh will always be better for having two rival teams and football in Scotland will always be better for having two teams in Edinburgh.

Thankfully, we now live in far more enlightened times. For example we know a lot more about the public health and hygiene, the nature and transmission of disease and pestilence. It would never work in modern, progressive society.

Also, a third world war with Germany would leave Easter Road highly vulnerable.

[Andy74]

Better for them to use Livingston.

Don't want these smelly tramps anywhere near the Holy Ground.


:taxi

Steady.

[Spike Mandela]

This is only a temporary glitch. Once Romanov does a bunk and leaves Hearts in the mire and their plight is finally fully accepted as an issue by their fans who in turn start bombarding their council for help then suddenly there will be votes in it for our illustrious public servants.

Tick tock indeed.

[iwasthere1972]

This reminds me of that great comedy "The Rise and Fall of Reggie Perrin"

All we need now is for some beach walker to find a submariners uniform and an IOU on Porty beach to top it all of.

It's good to be a Hibby. :flag: :flag: :flag:

[clerriehibs]

To which some fud on Brokeback replied - "If Hearts were the ONLY team in Edinburgh we would not be having this problem"

It's all OUR fault!! :tee hee:


:top marksto the keechbag clown! :faf:

[--------]

Great post as usual, Doddie, plenty of common sense there. My reading is a wee bit less charitable than yours. Here goes: I'm sure Vlad, through Cardownie, who introduced him to Hearts, has been drip-feeding threats to the council about pulling the plug on HoMFC for some time. He's basically skint, wasting money, his passions lie elsewhere, the club aren't producing sellable players in a transfer market which has all but dried up in the .25mill to 3 mill range, and the ground is worth not so much a block of flats as a bar of soap these days.

Cardownie (especially, given his role in bringing Vlad over here), Buchanan and Dawe all want to save some kind of face and be seen to be doing something to save the revolting enterprise when it all goes mammaries skywards, thus the 15k survey costs.

This 'community stadium' dream represents the last chance saloon of the Vlad regime, but it was always politically a non-starter as long as he was in charge. I think what we have to closely watch out for is the council's role in any post-Vlad reconstruction of Hearts, and ensure that our club is at least as rewarded for our sound business and finance practices as their's is for their economic lunacy and base corruption.

In the meantime, there could be a nasty Jambo civil war to enjoy, as Vlad and the Council point fingers at each other, apportioning the blame for the demise of a once, always and still sh-ite institution. At least some things never change.


Less charitable? I suggested dropping the whole boiling down a disused coalpit, Bob. :greengrin

I think you're absolutely right - if Hearts were to change ownership and find themselves in the sort of trouble usually consequent on owing large sums of money to business associates of organised crime there is a real danger that the council then might feel able to step in and offer a similar sort of deal to the new regime.

(That's assuming, of course, that they're not all sleeping with Baltic fishes, of course... :devil:)

But as you say, the games are only just beginning, and God willing there'll be lots of good stuff to enjoy between now and the end of the season - or the end of the Yams, whichever comes first.

But I can't think of anything less likely than a Yam understanding your reference to a bar of soap.

[killie-hibby]

Agree totally. I've long felt that Livingston was their natural, inevitable home. They can't go far enough west for my liking.

http://www.departures.com/articles/livingston-montana


That would be unfair on 390000 fans locked out of every home game. Much better to go a bit further west, to their spiritual home in Govan where only 348000 wouldn't get in.

[The Harp]

In fairness to the Council they have come out and set the record straight beyond any doubt it would seem. I was very critical of them over the past few days so it seems only fair that I acknowledge that they have responded pretty promptly and clearly to this whole matter.

Whilst it is not good news that 15k of the tax payers money has been waisted supporting a private company, it would seem that one or two councillors are responsbile for that rather than the whole lot of them, so I will be reasonable and not tar them all with the same brush.

Oh dear little Vladamir...what next?!

Yeah, I'd go along with that. although I hope those responsible for this latest council fiasco (particularly Carclownie) will at least get a rollicking from their colleagues until the voters can kick them out of office next year.
Something tells me we're going to hear of more council schemes to get HMFC out of the hole they've dug for themselves though - hope I'm wrong.

[Bishop Hibee]

Yeah, I'd go along with that. although I hope those responsible for this latest council fiasco (particularly Carclownie) will at least get a rollicking from their colleagues until the voters can kick them out of office next year.
Something tells me we're going to hear of more council schemes to get HMFC out of the hole they've dug for themselves though - hope I'm wrong.

Victory for right minded Edinburgh council tax payers in round 1. We still need to be vigilant as I'm certain the council will not let hahahearts go down the tubes without a fight to save them. The Evening News which would normally be condemning this waste of taxpayers money on its front page has been remarkably quiet especially given the hostility of Vlad towards them. I wouldn't put it past them to support a new stadium in the future.

[Jones28]

If we do move to a new stadium I suggest it is one with a sliding roof as per Wimbledon and we reap the benefit of foresight from hiring out the new ground for concerts and events all year round and in al weathers. I expect a club of the quality of Hearts to be around in the future but fear for other poorly supported, second rate clubs who struggle to be even average, could they just be green with envy at the potential of Heart of Midlothian the best club in the best area of Scotland. The only way is up.


My favourite quote from the comments.

1: Naw ye wouldney!

Hearts would be leasing the stadium from the Council, so the Council would be getting a vast share of the money from events like that. In addition, we all know that the pitch at Easter Road was an absolute state after the Elton John concert.

2: Whit?!

Owned by crook, employing paedophiles, millions of pounds in debt, NO assets besides Andy Driver who has recently been ousted by the club. The absolute opposite of the way a football club should be run.

3: Surely no?

Is that hinting that this disillusioned Yam reckons Hibs are currently the best club in Edinburgh?

I am personally delighted that Hearts are now stuck at Tynecastle, with the only alternatives to it being a soul-less rugby stadium that wouldnt even be a quarter full with their normal crowds, or Meadowbank.

Whats even better is that the deluded dont seem to understand that ECC have NO money left. At all. A £750 million tram project and the Jambos expect them to be able to cough up a good £20 million for a new stadium?

Long may the delusions continue! :thumbsup:

[Franck Stanton]

What a change in attitudes a couple of generations makes. In 1947/48 we were prepared to lend players to hahahahearts in order to get them out of a mess. Up to the 1970's we used to field a joint Edinburgh Team against Munich in a summer friendly. What ever happened to that community spirit. I think we should ground share with them, allow them to lease the south stand and have their own facilities under there with a players tunnel of their own. After all, we all see it as the "away stand". Football in Edinburgh will always be better for having two rival teams and football in Scotland will always be better for having two teams in Edinburgh.

Behave, Edinburgh would be a lot better without these skanky tramps. Get them out asap. We would still have two teams, Hibs and Edinburgh City.

[--------]

If we do move to a new stadium I suggest it is one with a sliding roof as per Wimbledon and we reap the benefit of foresight from hiring out the new ground for concerts and events all year round and in al weathers. I expect a club of the quality of Hearts to be around in the future but fear for other poorly supported, second rate clubs who struggle to be even average, could they just be green with envy at the potential of Heart of Midlothian the best club in the best area of Scotland. The only way is up.


My favourite quote from the comments.

1: Naw ye wouldney!

Hearts would be leasing the stadium from the Council, so the Council would be getting a vast share of the money from events like that. In addition, we all know that the pitch at Easter Road was an absolute state after the Elton John concert.

2: Whit?!

Owned by crook, employing paedophiles, millions of pounds in debt, NO assets besides Andy Driver who has recently been ousted by the club. The absolute opposite of the way a football club should be run.

3: Surely no?

Is that hinting that this disillusioned Yam reckons Hibs are currently the best club in Edinburgh?

I am personally delighted that Hearts are now stuck at Tynecastle, with the only alternatives to it being a soul-less rugby stadium that wouldnt even be a quarter full with their normal crowds, or Meadowbank.

Whats even better is that the deluded dont seem to understand that ECC have NO money left. At all. A £750 million tram project and the Jambos expect them to be able to cough up a good £20 million for a new stadium?

Long may the delusions continue! :thumbsup:



I now finally understand just how important it is that Edinburgh sees the tramways project through right to the bitter end.

I will happily put up with inconvenience, traffic delays, and diversions on my way to our modern, complete, and independently financed stadium if the cause of said inconvenience is one of the reasons Hearts have drifted even a few hundred additional yards up Ordure Estuary without the requisite equipment to paddle their leaking canoe. :devil:

[RickyS]

I now finally understand just how important it is that Edinburgh sees the tramways project through right to the bitter end.

I will happily put up with inconvenience, traffic delays, and diversions on my way to our modern, complete, and independently financed stadium if the cause of said inconvenience is one of the reasons Hearts have drifted even a few hundred additional yards up Ordure Estuary without the requisite equipment to paddle their leaking canoe. :devil:


:thumbsup:

[--------]

If we do move to a new stadium I suggest it is one with a sliding roof as per Wimbledon and we reap the benefit of foresight from hiring out the new ground for concerts and events all year round and in al weathers. I expect a club of the quality of Hearts to be around in the future but fear for other poorly supported, second rate clubs who struggle to be even average, could they just be green with envy at the potential of Heart of Midlothian the best club in the best area of Scotland. The only way is up.


My favourite quote from the comments.

1: Naw ye wouldney!

Hearts would be leasing the stadium from the Council, so the Council would be getting a vast share of the money from events like that. In addition, we all know that the pitch at Easter Road was an absolute state after the Elton John concert.

2: Whit?!

Owned by crook, employing paedophiles, millions of pounds in debt, NO assets besides Andy Driver who has recently been ousted by the club. The absolute opposite of the way a football club should be run.

3: Surely no?

Is that hinting that this disillusioned Yam reckons Hibs are currently the best club in Edinburgh?

I am personally delighted that Hearts are now stuck at Tynecastle, with the only alternatives to it being a soul-less rugby stadium that wouldnt even be a quarter full with their normal crowds, or Meadowbank.

Whats even better is that the deluded dont seem to understand that ECC have NO money left. At all. A £750 million tram project and the Jambos expect them to be able to cough up a good £20 million for a new stadium?

Long may the delusions continue! :thumbsup:


The quote is pure poetry. Just what cocktail of hallucinogens is that clown on? Has he the faintest idea of what it cost the Welsh to put the sliding roof on the Millennium Stadium? And as you say - it won't be THEIR ground, it'll belong to the Council.

Tynecastle - not so much a stadium as an alternative universe.... :greengrin

[AlbertK86]

maybe Cardownie and his cronies could use all their business acumen to suggest that the ****bos start paying wages they can afford ... Woops forgot they can't pay them .... Instead of acting the big time charlies and paying out massive wages to trump us when it comes to signings. Sell your team bring your youth in .... That might scratch at yer debt and ask the council to rent saughton enclosure

GIRFUY
GGTTH

[Andy74]

I now finally understand just how important it is that Edinburgh sees the tramways project through right to the bitter end.

I will happily put up with inconvenience, traffic delays, and diversions on my way to our modern, complete, and independently financed stadium if the cause of said inconvenience is one of the reasons Hearts have drifted even a few hundred additional yards up Ordure Estuary without the requisite equipment to paddle their leaking canoe. :devil:

Class.

[The_Todd]

Good. An outrageous plan to build a shiny new stadium for Hearts because they mismanaged their finances so badly they can't afford it themselves. I'd be disgusted if my council tax paid for Hearts to wipe their debts and start again, and I'd be doubly disgusted if Hearts then failed to pay the rent - and on current form it would be a case of when, not if.

[whiskyhibby]

Better for them to use Livingston.

Don't want these smelly tramps anywhere near the Holy Ground.


:taxi


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[weonlywon6-2]

The downwards spiral to administration and the first division (if they're lucky) has well and truley begun. I hope its a long drawn out deterioration because I will actaully miss laughing at them.

yes i will miss laughing at them, but couldnt give two hoots if they were never seen again.

that said, they will end up at Murrayfiled anyway

[frazeHFC]

https://p.twimg.com/AdRMkluCMAADHVY.jpg:large

:faf:

[AlbertK86]

yes i will miss laughing at them, but couldnt give two hoots if they were never seen again.

that said, they will end up at Murrayfiled anyway

And of course their MASSIVE support will fill it very week.... not.... especially once all the players walk out for not getting paid !!!!

If they go there then Murrayfield will be as The Specials once said 'ghost town'

LMFAO at them

GGTTH

[weonlywon6-2]

And of course their MASSIVE support will fill it very week.... not.... especially once all the players walk out for not getting paid !!!!

If they go there then Murrayfield will be as The Specials once said 'ghost town'

LMFAO at them

GGTTH

maybe we should organise a huge hibbys party up town when the go t*ts up???

that would be fun :thumbsup:

[AlbertK86]

maybe we should organise a huge hibbys party up town when the go t*ts up???

that would be fun :thumbsup:

Good shout ... Don't know if I can afford it before Christmas.... however it would be the perfect present !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bye::faf:

[Hibernia Na Eir]

was in the garage and a fat yam picked up a copy if the eve snooze and uttered "f... sake" upon seeing headline.

Hahaha

[poolman]

The quote is pure poetry. Just what cocktail of hallucinogens is that clown on? Has he the faintest idea of what it cost the Welsh to put the sliding roof on the Millennium Stadium? And as you say - it won't be THEIR ground, it'll belong to the Council.

Tynecastle - not so much a stadium as an alternative universe.... :greengrin


The strength of todays modern illegal pharmaceuticals must be quite something for a Yam even to think that, never mind post it on a message board :lolyam:

[weonlywon6-2]

Good shout ... Don't know if I can afford it before Christmas.... however it would be the perfect present !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bye::faf:

we would find the money somewhere !!:aok:

[iwasthere1972]

was in the garage and a fat yam picked up a copy if the eve snooze and uttered "f... sake" upon seeing headline.

Hahaha

I would say the same if my wife was on the front page of the EN hanging oot the windae with a flag condemning the owner of the club I worship.

[Www1875hfc]

A quote from over the road.
"I think Vladimir Romanov has had the guts to do what no other owner has ever done in my lifetime...expose the bias and cronyisms in the Scottish game.
There's an element or racism, a touch of xenephobia about the reporting to do with Hearts or Mr Romanov.
Tonight on the STV news when they reported on Vlads latest statement the female reading it referres to it as a RANT by Vladimir Romanov.
If anyone believes the current crop of officials are unbiased then they ain't watching the games Hearts are involved in.
It would be easy enough to compare like with like if you were to trawl through t.v. footage.
For instance Naismiths tackle against the Aberdeen player that left the guy with a 4inch gash on his leg never merited a booking. Does anyone think Ian Black doing the same thing would get off that lightly?
And we could go on forever folks. So it's little wonder that Vlad blows fuses and our manager goes banzai.
The SFA is a shameful cabal of psychophants, always has been and sadly it won't change. The standard of refereeing is brutal, the restriction on freedom of speech that managers operate under is deplorable in a modern age. I find it rather sinister that a manager can't express an opinion and specify incidents where Refs got it wrong.
I still feel that if someone challenged this at law they would win their case.
If Vlad goes, he goes, but I think one more heavy fine and he'll walk, everyone has a tipping point. But I would absolutely love for him to appoint a top legal team and take on the SFA at the European Court of Human Rights.
Sadly there are No other owners with the balls to stand alongside him on some of the wrongs that need righting

[The_Todd]

A quote from over the road.
"I think Vladimir Romanov has had the guts to do what no other owner has ever done in my lifetime...expose the bias and cronyisms in the Scottish game.
There's an element or racism, a touch of xenephobia about the reporting to do with Hearts or Mr Romanov.
Tonight on the STV news when they reported on Vlads latest statement the female reading it referres to it as a RANT by Vladimir Romanov.
If anyone believes the current crop of officials are unbiased then they ain't watching the games Hearts are involved in.
It would be easy enough to compare like with like if you were to trawl through t.v. footage.
For instance Naismiths tackle against the Aberdeen player that left the guy with a 4inch gash on his leg never merited a booking. Does anyone think Ian Black doing the same thing would get off that lightly?
And we could go on forever folks. So it's little wonder that Vlad blows fuses and our manager goes banzai.
The SFA is a shameful cabal of psychophants, always has been and sadly it won't change. The standard of refereeing is brutal, the restriction on freedom of speech that managers operate under is deplorable in a modern age. I find it rather sinister that a manager can't express an opinion and specify incidents where Refs got it wrong.
I still feel that if someone challenged this at law they would win their case.
If Vlad goes, he goes, but I think one more heavy fine and he'll walk, everyone has a tipping point. But I would absolutely love for him to appoint a top legal team and take on the SFA at the European Court of Human Rights.
Sadly there are No other owners with the balls to stand alongside him on some of the wrongs that need righting

Translates into "I'm bent over and lubed up, Mr Romanov. Come and get me"

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Why don't they just lend themselves £80M - £40M to pay off their debt then build a new stadium with the £40M left. The new stadium would be the envy of Europe and deserving of a team with Champions league aspirations. They might even have some change left to buy a couple of world cup stars.

Or

Ask each of their 400,000 supporters for £200 a skull - easy.

Get to it Vlad. :deal:

[DaveF]

A quote from over the road.
"I think Vladimir Romanov has had the guts to do what no other owner has ever done in my lifetime...expose the bias and cronyisms in the Scottish game.
There's an element or racism, a touch of xenephobia about the reporting to do with Hearts or Mr Romanov.
Tonight on the STV news when they reported on Vlads latest statement the female reading it referres to it as a RANT by Vladimir Romanov.
If anyone believes the current crop of officials are unbiased then they ain't watching the games Hearts are involved in.
It would be easy enough to compare like with like if you were to trawl through t.v. footage.
For instance Naismiths tackle against the Aberdeen player that left the guy with a 4inch gash on his leg never merited a booking. Does anyone think Ian Black doing the same thing would get off that lightly?
And we could go on forever folks. So it's little wonder that Vlad blows fuses and our manager goes banzai.
The SFA is a shameful cabal of psychophants, always has been and sadly it won't change. The standard of refereeing is brutal, the restriction on freedom of speech that managers operate under is deplorable in a modern age. I find it rather sinister that a manager can't express an opinion and specify incidents where Refs got it wrong.
I still feel that if someone challenged this at law they would win their case.
If Vlad goes, he goes, but I think one more heavy fine and he'll walk, everyone has a tipping point. But I would absolutely love for him to appoint a top legal team and take on the SFA at the European Court of Human Rights.
Sadly there are No other owners with the balls to stand alongside him on some of the wrongs that need righting

Aye, Vlad will of course appoint a top legal team (do they do jobs for free :rolleyes:) because you poor merricks are being picked on.

That post just smacks of pure desperation.

And I love it :greengrin

[weonlywon6-2]

A quote from over the road.
"I think Vladimir Romanov has had the guts to do what no other owner has ever done in my lifetime...expose the bias and cronyisms in the Scottish game.
There's an element or racism, a touch of xenephobia about the reporting to do with Hearts or Mr Romanov.
Tonight on the STV news when they reported on Vlads latest statement the female reading it referres to it as a RANT by Vladimir Romanov.
If anyone believes the current crop of officials are unbiased then they ain't watching the games Hearts are involved in.
It would be easy enough to compare like with like if you were to trawl through t.v. footage.
For instance Naismiths tackle against the Aberdeen player that left the guy with a 4inch gash on his leg never merited a booking. Does anyone think Ian Black doing the same thing would get off that lightly?
And we could go on forever folks. So it's little wonder that Vlad blows fuses and our manager goes banzai.
The SFA is a shameful cabal of psychophants, always has been and sadly it won't change. The standard of refereeing is brutal, the restriction on freedom of speech that managers operate under is deplorable in a modern age. I find it rather sinister that a manager can't express an opinion and specify incidents where Refs got it wrong.
I still feel that if someone challenged this at law they would win their case.
If Vlad goes, he goes, but I think one more heavy fine and he'll walk, everyone has a tipping point. But I would absolutely love for him to appoint a top legal team and take on the SFA at the European Court of Human Rights.
Sadly there are No other owners with the balls to stand alongside him on some of the wrongs that need righting


yes,there is bias in football,all of it,not just scotland.

above in bold should read "gladly NO other owners are stupid enough to stand along side him................cause hes an a**e

[Sergey]

Aye, Vlad will of course appoint a top legal team (do they do jobs for free :rolleyes:) because you poor merricks are being picked on.

That post just smacks of pure desperation.

And I love it :greengrin

Please note - not all posts on Kickback are by legitimate Yam Fuds :wink:

[AlbertK86]

Why don't they just lend themselves £80M - £40M to pay off their debt then build a new stadium with the £40M left. The new stadium would be the envy of Europe and deserving of a team with Champions league aspirations. They might even have some change left to buy a couple of world cup stars.

Or

Ask each of their 400,000 supporters for £200 a skull - easy.

Get to it Vlad. :deal:

:not worth:thumbsup::aok:

[DaveF]

Please note - not all posts on Kickback are by legitimate Yam Fuds :wink:

I started to write my reply that I thought that post was done by an agent and then edited it out :greengrin

[iwasthere1972]

Please note - not all posts on Kickback are by legitimate Yam Fuds :wink:

Get away.

[Gordon Quinn]

What a change in attitudes a couple of generations makes. In 1947/48 we were prepared to lend players to hahahahearts in order to get them out of a mess. Up to the 1970's we used to field a joint Edinburgh Team against Munich in a summer friendly. What ever happened to that community spirit. I think we should ground share with them, allow them to lease the south stand and have their own facilities under there with a players tunnel of their own. After all, we all see it as the "away stand". Football in Edinburgh will always be better for having two rival teams and football in Scotland will always be better for having two teams in Edinburgh.

'Edinburgh will always be better for having two rival teams'


No it won't - Edinburgh and Hibs will be better off with one team only! As you say attitudes shift, when they die Hibs' catchment area suddenly increases. In a generations' time we should see attendances at ER increase as we would be a one team city. If that meant we were able to compete at the top end off the league regularly I could live without derbies (although I would miss them..... derbies that is).

[clerriehibs]

A quote from over the road.
"I think Vladimir Romanov has had the guts to do what no other owner has ever done in my lifetime...expose the bias and cronyisms in the Scottish game.
There's an element or racism, a touch of xenephobia about the reporting to do with Hearts or Mr Romanov.
Tonight on the STV news when they reported on Vlads latest statement the female reading it referres to it as a RANT by Vladimir Romanov.
If anyone believes the current crop of officials are unbiased then they ain't watching the games Hearts are involved in.
It would be easy enough to compare like with like if you were to trawl through t.v. footage.
For instance Naismiths tackle against the Aberdeen player that left the guy with a 4inch gash on his leg never merited a booking. Does anyone think Ian Black doing the same thing would get off that lightly?


Excellent example of the alternative world the ****bos live in ... the probability of Ian Black not getting away with gouging a hole in another player's leg shows bias AGAINST the ****bos .... :violin:

Of course Black should be able to butcher other players, dear, now take your pills and sit in the quiet room for a bit, there's a good ****bo.

[poolman]

Please note - not all posts on Kickback are by legitimate Yam Fuds :wink:


:tee hee:

Ye'll need to give us a clue when your on the troll Sergey :greengrin

[nonshinyfinish]

A quote from over the road.
"I think Vladimir Romanov has had the guts to do what no other owner has ever done in my lifetime...expose the bias and cronyisms in the Scottish game.
There's an element or racism, a touch of xenephobia about the reporting to do with Hearts or Mr Romanov.
Tonight on the STV news when they reported on Vlads latest statement the female reading it referres to it as a RANT by Vladimir Romanov.
If anyone believes the current crop of officials are unbiased then they ain't watching the games Hearts are involved in.
It would be easy enough to compare like with like if you were to trawl through t.v. footage.
For instance Naismiths tackle against the Aberdeen player that left the guy with a 4inch gash on his leg never merited a booking. Does anyone think Ian Black doing the same thing would get off that lightly?
And we could go on forever folks. So it's little wonder that Vlad blows fuses and our manager goes banzai.
The SFA is a shameful cabal of psychophants, always has been and sadly it won't change. The standard of refereeing is brutal, the restriction on freedom of speech that managers operate under is deplorable in a modern age. I find it rather sinister that a manager can't express an opinion and specify incidents where Refs got it wrong.
I still feel that if someone challenged this at law they would win their case.
If Vlad goes, he goes, but I think one more heavy fine and he'll walk, everyone has a tipping point. But I would absolutely love for him to appoint a top legal team and take on the SFA at the European Court of Human Rights.
Sadly there are No other owners with the balls to stand alongside him on some of the wrongs that need righting

Going to be using the word 'psychophant'. :agree:

[clerriehibs]

A quote from over the road.
Tonight on the STV news when they reported on Vlads latest statement the female reading it referres to it as a RANT by Vladimir Romanov.
If anyone believes the current crop of officials are unbiased then they ain't watching the games Hearts are involved in.
It would be easy enough to compare like with like if you were to trawl through t.v. footage.
For instance Naismiths tackle against the Aberdeen player that left the guy with a 4inch gash on his leg never merited a booking. Does anyone think Ian Black doing the same thing would get off that lightly?
And we could go on forever folks. So it's little wonder that Vlad blows fuses and our manager goes banzai.


Well, was it a rant or wasn't it a rant ... can a ****bo not decide in even one post? :confused:

[clerriehibs]

Going to be using the word 'psychophant'. :agree:


:faf:

[degenerated]

Going to be using the word 'psychophant'. :agree:

:agree: but WTF is "a shameful cabal of psychophants"

[Sergey]

:agree: but WTF is "a shameful cabal of psychophants"

Get a help chute and a carbon monoxide alarm...

We would still have our Thursday afternoons.

[nonshinyfinish]

Get a help chute and a carbon monoxide alarm...

We would still have our Thursday afternoons.

Worms in your shoes?

[Sergey]

Worms in your shoes?

:agree:

After a weekend in Riga with heavy drinking rugby pals :aok:

[degenerated]

:agree:

After a weekend in Riga with heavy drinking rugby pals :aok:

too many psychopaths, not enough cycle paths :agree:

or should that read pscyhophants

[Jones28]

I now finally understand just how important it is that Edinburgh sees the tramways project through right to the bitter end.

I will happily put up with inconvenience, traffic delays, and diversions on my way to our modern, complete, and independently financed stadium if the cause of said inconvenience is one of the reasons Hearts have drifted even a few hundred additional yards up Ordure Estuary without the requisite equipment to paddle their leaking canoe. :devil:

Class as usual Doddie:hibees

[Jones28]

A quote from over the road.
"I think Vladimir Romanov has had the guts to do what no other owner has ever done in my lifetime...expose the bias and cronyisms in the Scottish game.
There's an element or racism, a touch of xenephobia about the reporting to do with Hearts or Mr Romanov.
Tonight on the STV news when they reported on Vlads latest statement the female reading it referres to it as a RANT by Vladimir Romanov.
If anyone believes the current crop of officials are unbiased then they ain't watching the games Hearts are involved in.
It would be easy enough to compare like with like if you were to trawl through t.v. footage.
For instance Naismiths tackle against the Aberdeen player that left the guy with a 4inch gash on his leg never merited a booking. Does anyone think Ian Black doing the same thing would get off that lightly?
And we could go on forever folks. So it's little wonder that Vlad blows fuses and our manager goes banzai.
The SFA is a shameful cabal of psychophants, always has been and sadly it won't change. The standard of refereeing is brutal, the restriction on freedom of speech that managers operate under is deplorable in a modern age. I find it rather sinister that a manager can't express an opinion and specify incidents where Refs got it wrong.
I still feel that if someone challenged this at law they would win their case.
If Vlad goes, he goes, but I think one more heavy fine and he'll walk, everyone has a tipping point. But I would absolutely love for him to appoint a top legal team and take on the SFA at the European Court of Human Rights.
Sadly there are No other owners with the balls to stand alongside him on some of the wrongs that need righting

Comparing any refereeing decision to that aginst one of the Old Firm is bollocks in the first place, they have their own rule book.

Vlads rant was called a rant because it was a rant! If he keeps going on and on then he deserves to be fined, nobody (apart from Lennon obviously) is untouchable and the sooner he realises that the better for him. He doesn't know or care, so will pay for it. Simple as that.

Taking on the SFA at the European Court of Human Rights?! Purely delusional! Firstly, no top legal team in the world would want anything to do with a case like that. The Courts would laugh it out.

And it would never reach that stage anyway, because Hearts will fold and Vlad will walk :lurksub: :bye:

[Barney McGrew]

This puts a wee whole in their 'major entertainment venue' argument too :greengrin

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/close_encounters_of_the_concert_kind_1_1944333

[blackpoolhibs]

Been working all week, so have not had a chance to keep up with my emails, so here are a few of the ones i have recieved. Jenny Dawes is a belter.

Maureen Child to me
show details 2 Nov (2 days ago)
Gary

I got some information on this form Gordon Munro, Labour's spokesperson on this area of the Council. He says:

"I share your concerns. I raised this at the Economic Development Committee when it met on Tuesday. Tucked away in appendix 6 of item 6 were the following comments from Council officers.

"The joint study with Heart of Midlothian Football Club is complete. Hearts has also announced the results of its supporters survey. The report highlights the difficulties faced by the club if it remains at Tynecastle. It also provides a number of significant recommendations relating to potential partnership models. One of these models is a partnership with the Council. At this stage, it is recommended that the Council works jointly with Hearts to work up a business case which would identify whether a community stadium is sustainable and viable and if so, how this could be delivered. "

They say they are working with Hearts to produce a business case exploring the potential for a community sports stadium.

I questioned how much the study cost and who paid for it. It cost £30,000 with the costs being shared between HMFC and City of Edinburgh Council. A copy of the study was not made available to the committee on the day or as is normal practice in Group rooms , at least for the Labour Group , so the Press actually have more information than the commissioners of the report. Make of that what you will.

However the main point is that as this was an appendix item any further work needs to be subject to a full report to committee . We expect this report will be made at the next meeting of Economic Development on 20th December although it could go before a Policy & Strategy Committee as well. How it will be handled is up to the SNP/Lib-Dem administration."

We hope the above gives you some reassurance on this subject.

Maureen

p.s. Can I possibly have your home address, just for my records?

Councillor Maureen Child | Labour Elected Member | Portobello/Craigmillar (Ward 17) | City of Edinburgh Council | City Chambers | High Street | Edinburgh | EH1 1YJ | Tel 0131 529 3268 |


Dear Mr Bremner

Further to your e-mail I am writing to inform you that Heart of Midlothian FC (HMFC), with support from The City of Edinburgh Council, undertook a jointly funded study on options for:

a) The development of the existing Tynecastle Stadium which is owned by HMFC or:
b) Identifying a suitable replacement in the event that the development of Tynecastle is not viable.

As HMFC is a major employer in the Gorgie/Dalry area, coupled with its historical and cultural importance to the city and the number of land ownership interests the council has surrounding the stadium, the council felt it was appropriate to contribute £15,000 to the cost of the study. This represents 50% of the total cost, with the remaining 50% being paid for by HMFC.

The report has concluded that currently Tynecastle is no longer fit for purpose if the club wants to continue to participate in European competitions as it does not meet the current UEFA stadium standards. The estimated costs associated with the required redevelopment plans and the constraints with its location makes the development of Tynecastle not viable.

The report also looks at the possibility of a new build option. HMFC requirements have been listed as:

- 30,000 capacity stadium
- Artificial training pitch
- 500 car park space

The land required to accommodate the above is estimated at between 12 - 16 acres.

In terms of new building option, the report recommends the community stadium model which would require the council to potentially provide the land, development and ownership of the stadium, with HMFC participating as a tenant. The community stadium would also be used for other activities such as Rugby, Entertainment, etc. In theory the rent received from all the tenants would be used to pay off monies that the council would have to borrow to develop the stadium.

The City of Edinburgh Council is currently considering the request by HMFC to participate in a project of this nature. We now need to consider whether a community stadium is a viable and sustainable proposition. The council will consider a brief for a study looking at the business case for a community stadium at the Economic Development Committee on 20 December 2011 on which I sit. I have not seen the brief yet but I am keen to support any enhancements in sporting provision across the city, which come at little or no cost to the Council. We would welcome this suggestion from any sport's organisations big or small and the fact that it is HMFC in this case is not bias or favouritism. I confess I am not a football fan but I understand Hibs are very happy at their stadium which means we need to assist Hearts in this case.
I trust this clarifies the current position for you.

Regards

Councillor Conor Snowden

From: gary bremner [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 26 October 2011 11:41
To: Conor Snowden
Subject: Community stadium

Gary

Thanks for your e-mail below. I share your concerns.

My colleagues, Gordon Munro, raised this at the Economic Development Committee when it met on Tuesday. Tucked away in appendix 6 of item 6 were the following comments from council officers.
"The joint study with Heart of Midlothian Football Club is complete. Hearts has also announced the results of its supporters survey. The report highlights the difficulties faced by the club if it remains at Tynecastle. It also provides a number of significant recommendations relating to potential partnership models. One of these models is a partnership with the Council. At this stage, it is recommended that the Council works jointly with Hearts to work up a business case which would identify whether a community stadium is sustainable and viable and if so, how this could be delivered. Work with Hearts to produce a business case exploring the potential for a community sports stadium "

Gordon questioned how much the study cost and who paid for it. It cost £30,000 with the costs being shared between HMFC and City of Edinburgh Council. A copy of the study was not made available to the committee on the day or as is normal practice in Group rooms , at least for the Labour Group, so the Press actually have more information than the commissioners of the report.

However the main point is that as this was an appendix item any further work needs to be subject to a full report to committee . We expect this report will be made at the next meeting of Economic Development on 20th December although it could go before a Policy & Strategy Committee as well. How it will be handled is up to the SNP/Lib-Dem administration.
I hope the above gives you some reassurance on this subject.

Andrew
____________

Andrew Burns
Labour Councillor for Fountainbridge/Craiglockhart Ward
Leader, Labour Group, City of Edinburgh Council

Tel: 0131 529 3287 (w) or: 07880 502 212 (m)

Local Surgeries - no appointment necessary, simply turn up:
Every Monday, 6pm (during school term-time) @ Craiglockhart Primary School, Ashley Terrace
Every Tuesday, 6pm (during school term-time) @ St.Cuthbert's Primary School, Hutchison Crossway
Every Wednesday, 6pm (all year round) @ Fountainbridge Library, Dundee Stre


Dear Mr Bremner

COMMUNITY STADIUM

Thank you for your email of 27 October regarding coverage that has been given to a suggestion that a community stadium be explored in the west of Edinburgh. I apologise for the delay in providing you with a substantive response.

You may be interested to know that at last week’s meeting of The City of Edinburgh Council I expressed my concern at this idea. I had no knowledge that the proposition was being investigated and it is not something that I would be minded to support.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am totally committed to the Council operating in an even-handed basis in relation to the two major football clubs in the city, and indeed in its interactions with every institution. Whilst I personally support Hearts, my partner is a long-standing season ticket holder at Easter Road. I have, in relation to previous Council business, previously supported the position of Hibs – for example, with regard to the Lochend Butterfly.

I have asked for further information regarding the origins and status of this proposal. Please be reassured that I will take a very close involvement in this matter and, as mentioned, that I am not persuaded that there is a case for Council partnering in a community stadium with one of the football clubs in the city.

I hope this is helpful and responds to your questions: please, however, do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance.

Kind regards



Jenny

Councillor Jenny Dawe

[clerriehibs]

The report also looks at the possibility of a new build option. HMFC requirements have been listed as:

- 30,000 capacity stadium
- Artificial training pitch
- 500 car park space

I confess I am not a football fan but I understand Hibs are very happy at their stadium which means we need to assist Hearts in this case.

Regards

Councillor Conor Snowden



Is Conor Snowden extracting the urine? "Hearts requirements are ..." ..."Hibs are happy with their [note, councillor snowden, THEIR] stadium, so we have to help Hearts"

This has not gone away. This is going to happen.

[Green_one]

I am just hopeful that the financial climate and the fact that this idea is not going to be able to go through on their usual backdoor nods and winks, will quickly stop this happening. I cannot see how they can finance it and feel they can sell it to the wider public. Its an obvious stich up (though not the first).

I must say that I find the way they do their dealings is an affront to their tax payers and our city.

One good thing is the about turn the Jambos will now do about Tynie being rubbish - now it will go back to being their spiritual home. Bijou it may be and colour co-ordinated to ****, its still home to the wee souls.

Hopefully Hearts and HMRC will resolve the problem before any other ideas come up.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I have received a couple of the replies quoted in this thread

[Kato]

Dear Mr Bremner

As HMFC is a major employer in the Gorgie/Dalry area, coupled with its historical and cultural importance to the city and the number of land ownership interests the council has surrounding the stadium, the council felt it was appropriate to contribute £15,000 to the cost of the study. This represents 50% of the total cost, with the remaining 50% being paid for by HMFC.......

The council hasn't had a chance to feel anything other than the few jambos trying to push this through.

The community stadium would also be used for other activities such as Rugby, Entertainment, etc. In theory the rent received from all the tenants would be used to pay off monies that the council would have to borrow to develop the stadium......

The brass-neck of these people could potentially cause a Brasso drought.

I have not seen the brief yet but I am keen to support any enhancements in sporting provision across the city, .....

Jambo ****.

which come at little or no cost to the Council.

Lying Jambo ****

We would welcome this suggestion.....

Is that the Royal "We" or just you Cardownie and Millipede

from any sport's organisations big or small......

He's trying to take the p*ss.

and the fact that it is HMFC in this case is not bias or favouritism.
...........

It's bias and favouritism.

I confess I am not a football fan.....

Nope you support Hearts.

but I understand Hibs are very happy at their stadium which means we need to assist Hearts in this case.


You need to get chucked out at the next election - in fact maybe even a tall building.


I trust this clarifies the current position for you.

It clarifies you are a hertz **** with so much **** it's hurts your ***** when you ***********.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I am just hopeful that the financial climate and the fact that this idea is not going to be able to go through on their usual backdoor nods and winks, will quickly stop this happening. I cannot see how they can finance it and feel they can sell it to the wider public. Its an obvious stich up (though not the first).

I must say that I find the way they do their dealings is an affront to their tax payers and our city.

One good thing is the about turn the Jambos will now do about Tynie being rubbish - now it will go back to being their spiritual home. Bijou it may be and colour co-ordinated to ****, its still home to the wee souls.

Hopefully Hearts and HMRC will resolve the problem before any other ideas come up.


and that it was the council that instigated everything, the bad council were trying to hoodwink romanov to get there hands on tincastle...but romanov has bravely fought them off....and all because he supported the pink team since birth:agree: then the yamboids revert back to the natural position....pants at ankles and bent over forwards

[mcfly]

I dont think we need to be too concerned re this anymore. my reasons as follows

the council is skint after the trams and had to beg more money so their borrowing powers are now zero.

its election year in may 2012 and no-one will want to say or do anything controversial so this will be put to sleep until at least after may
by then the top earners will have all left.

even if hearts did rent a stadium from the council they would own nothing, no stadium and no training ground
therefore no fixed assets at all, so no borrowing powers, no collateral for loans. likely still have debts

however for anyone going to the AGM it should be asked to the board what are their contingency plans re legal action if this does take place, tie this thing up in the courts so nothing happens, raised any question of institutional bias against hibs. previous cases of councils building community stadiums have happened but not in a city where there are 2teams.

Finally if anyone has the time, inclination etc why not stand as an independent candidate in the council elections either in leith (as you would win) or against steve cardownie ask him the questions, put him on the spot. you might not win but you may split his vote and stop him winning.

just a thought

[poolman]

ebut I understand Hibs are very happy at their stadium which means we need to assist Hearts in this case.


I'm not a violent person but a slap in the moosh is deserved in this prats case :agree:

[blackpoolhibs]

ebut I understand Hibs are very happy at their stadium which means we need to assist Hearts in this case.


I'm not a violent person but a slap in the moosh is deserved in this prats case :agree:

You just couldnt make this crap up, why do they need to help hearts? They have put themselves in this position by overspending on players, rather than spending on their stadium. Maybe we need to ask them for a retractable roof, and a heliport. We need them for when the bands arrive when they are playing their gigs under the all seated indoor arena at easter road.

[poolman]

You just couldnt make this crap up, why do they need to help hearts? They have put themselves in this position by overspending on players, rather than spending on their stadium. Maybe we need to ask them for a retractable roof, and a heliport. We need them for when the bands arrive when they are playing their gigs under the all seated indoor arena at easter road.



That is totally outrageous and nothing short of pure gerrymandering of a councillors position

That git needs to be hauled over the coals for that statement :bitchy:

[Beefster]

I trust any Hibees voters (if you know any let them know his attitude to council funds) in the Liberton/Gilmerton ward will do what they can to make Councillor Snowden's council duties a ****ing nightmare and then get him voted out at the next possible opportunity. It's our duty.

[truehibernian]

I trust any Hibees voters (if you know any let them know his attitude to council funds) in the Liberton/Gilmerton ward will do what they can to make Councillor Snowden's council duties a ****ing nightmare and then get him voted out at the next possible opportunity. It's our duty.

True beefster.

My response to him would be twofold - firstly I would ask him what initial research he has carried out on Hearts, given he claims to not be a football fan, and if that research has led him to conclude that it is in the interests of Edinburgh to 'assist Hearts'.

I would then ask him, hypothetically of course, if his next door neighbour, who he knew to have missed mortgage/loan payments before, who he knew had had to represent himself in court against others demanding money from him for services gone unpaid, who he knew lived abroad for nearly all the year round, and who he knew annoyed those that worked for him, suddenly appeared at his door asking for a rather large loan which he would 'pay back', would he be quick to 'assist' him and loan him money ? The same logic and principle applies in my opinion.

If he is such a generous wee councillor, maybe he can fight for money for Inchpark, Kirk Brae or indeed, opening an indoor football facility for the good folk of Liberton and Gilmerton............then local people can be employed for those 'community projects'. Just a thought !

The man sounds like an idiot who hasn't done any research at all. What is it they say about people being better off saying nothing and being thought of as an idiot, than saying something and removing all doubt !

[Mark79]

Word on the street is that the council have circulated an email around all staff asking who has accepted corporate at the asbestos arena.......

[SloopJB]

Word on the street is that the council have circulated an email around all staff asking who has accepted corporate at the asbestos arena.......

other words on the street include; no right turn, look left and 20mph

[The Voice Of Reason]

Interesting :hmmm:

[Andy74]

Freedom of info request from on here? Probably trying to gather the answer.

[CropleyWasGod]

Before we start getting all Woodward and Bernstein here, there's a big difference between accepting hospitality and bribery.

[Hibercelona]

Before we start getting all Woodward and Bernstein here, there's a big difference between accepting hospitality and bribery.

I'm confused here.

How could Hearts possibly bribe anyone or offer any level of hospitality?

What money have they got to bribe anybody with? And how can a day at a p!sh stained biscuit tin offer any kind of hospitality? :confused:

[cabbageandribs1875]

think the word 'bribing' should maybe be taken out of the thread title

[TheEastTerrace]

Aye, hardly bribery.

But that said, there should be a transparent register of gifts. Hospitality would come into this. The Glasgow 2014 company did similar following the resignation of their CEO for not declaring GIK legal advice.

Mind you, this is the fully transparent CEC......

[Mark79]

Okay maybe not bribery but why send an Email out asking about acceptance of Hearts hospitality and not say hibs and hearts?

Convenient timing when a council funded stadium is kicked out.

[CropleyWasGod]

Okay maybe not bribery but why send an Email out asking about acceptance of Hearts hospitality and not say hibs and hearts?

Convenient timing when a council funded stadium is kicked out.

Sounds to me like housekeeping. Someone.. either an elected rep or member of the public... has asked the question "why?", and CEC are conducting an inquiry to find out the answer. Given the public interest, and the related suspicion (whether well-founded or not) that seems a reasonable action to take.

[Hibs Class]

Before we start getting all Woodward and Bernstein here, there's a big difference between accepting hospitality and bribery. Agree. However most of the hospitality guests at games will be guests of other third parties. I think it reasonable that councillors and council employees disclose if they have received and declared any hospitality from hearts themselves.

[bighairyfaeleith]

apparently there is a council project looking into building a facility at ingliston that will be used for the community for concerts etc and possibly sports that will be getting reviewed next week. No mention of football facilities and it sounds like a SECC style place but I think we better watch this one just in case. It won't be built by ECC but by private investors(murray?, not sure if it's his land)

Not 100% of the details nut one to watch folks

[Dashing Bob S]

Just look at which council officials are experiencing respiratory difficulties.

[Andy74]

The new bribery act seems to not make such a huge difference between hospitality and bribery.

[Caversham Green]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111107/stadium-update_2241384_2508476

Certain councillors seem determined to subsidise a Lithuanian banking and investment group's failed investment.

[iwasthere1972]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111107/stadium-update_2241384_2508476

Certain councillors seem determined to subsidise a Lithuanian banking and investment group's failed investment.

If they had invested the £60 million wisely that they are reported to have spent in the last 6 years then they could've splashed it out on a new stadium rather than try and buy their way to glory by overpaying second rate footballers.

It's their mess and one that they should sort out themselves. Not one more penny of taxpayers money should be wasted on them.

[green glory]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111107/stadium-update_2241384_2508476

Certain councillors seem determined to subsidise a Lithuanian banking and investment group's failed investment.

So much for the council pouring cold water on the new stadium plan last week. Corrupt Jambo removed.

[iwasthere1972]

Here's me thinking that the council were getting tough on benefit fraud.

[NYHibby]

Here is a link to the blog post on the Council's website. You don't seem to be able to post comments.

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/blog/newsblog/post/102/City-Development-Director-sets-out-context-of-Hearts-stadium-report

[Part/Time Supporter]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111107/stadium-update_2241384_2508476

Certain councillors seem determined to subsidise a Lithuanian banking and investment group's failed investment.

In this case, it isn't even a councillor, it is a council employee. Whose salary a lot of Hibs fans pay towards.

[matty_f]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111107/stadium-update_2241384_2508476

Certain councillors seem determined to subsidise a Lithuanian banking and investment group's failed investment.

There are defninitely people there desperate to push this through, no matter how tenuous the benefits are.

It would be an absolutely disgraceful decision to build a stadium for those trumpets. Stating that the Yams can't capitalise because they hadn't invested in building their stadium before now is a ridiculous point. Why should tax payers fund a foreign owned company's expansion plans, while they've done hee-haw to fund a locally-owned rivals?

Utter disgrace.