New stadium for Edinburgh rugby and/or Hearts? (merged)

[Twa Cairpets]

Tweet by Mark Banstead a wee while ago



markbenstead Mark Benstead
#hearts - redeveloping Tynecastle "not a viable option" according to report by club and council.

Is this a new report?

Apologies if already posted elsewhere

[Caversham Green]

:hmmm: This is starting to smell bad.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111025/stadium-update_2241384_2493727

[marinello59]

:hmmm: This is starting to smell bad.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111025/stadium-update_2241384_2493727

This is similar to the tactics the Sheep used to attempt to get the Aberdeen Cooncil to build a ''Community'' stadium. Voter pressure in a one team city played a fair part in the plan's demise. I can't see it being a go-er in a two team city no matter how much the Yams try to portray it is a nearly done deal.

[Zondervan]

Ewan Murray also tweeting that The current Tynecastle site is not suitable for housing due to the chemical plant nearby. Funny how all these things are coming out the woodwork now.

He is also saying that Hearts proposing land-swap with the council for the Sighthill site.....

[Hibbyradge]

Didn't Chris Robinson tell them exactly that about 10 years ago?

How come they're now happy to believe Vladimir?

[The_Famous_HFC]

Didn't Chris Robinson tell them exactly that about 10 years ago? How come they're now happy to believe Vladimir? Don't know if I am missing something or stating the obvious Here but wasn't Robinson wanting to take Hearts to Murrayfield?

[Hibbyradge]

He was, as a "temporary" measure, because he said the PBS wasn't "fit for purpose" and redevelopment wasn't a viable option.

[R'Albin]

This is similar to the tactics the Sheep used to attempt to get the Aberdeen Cooncil to build a ''Community'' stadium. Voter pressure in a one team city played a fair part in the plan's demise. I can't see it being a go-er in a two team city no matter how much the Yams try to portray it is a nearly done deal.

Bit off topic, but how are the sheep planning to raise funds for their new stadium?

[Zondervan]

:hmmm: This is starting to smell bad.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111025/stadium-update_2241384_2493727

"In turn, we will be better able to reflect the city's desire for greater business growth, job creation, revenue generation, attraction of more visitors to the city and showcase Edinburgh as a true footballing and sports city as well as a Festival city."

What?! The Vlad Propaganda machine is really spinning this one out. All this by building a Community Stadium. :aok:

[TheEastTerrace]

This is a ****ing disgrace.

Sorry, but we cannot let this happen. Bitter Hibby or not, there is not one viable reason why that manky mob deserve to be bailed out of their mess by EC.

Action must be taken should this come to pass, starting with the removal of the councilman who made it his duty to act the typical jambo knob in the Evening News this week.

[YehButNoBut]

It seems the value of Tynie may have dropped considerably, something to do with COMAH regulations, with the value being around £8 - £10 million, according to some recent tweets from Ewan Murray (see below), not so good for Hearts if true.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/#!/mrewanmurray) Ewan Murray
Hearts currently investigating/seeking a land swap with council for Sighthill site. Training complex would be at same venue, ideally.

mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/#!/mrewanmurray) Ewan Murray
Key snag- who pays to build stadium. Council not exactly flush. Training pitches/new facilities ties into wider SFA hopes across country

mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/#!/mrewanmurray) Ewan Murray@markbenstead (https://twitter.com/#!/markbenstead) Sighthill on the tram line... surprise surprise...

mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/#!/mrewanmurray) Ewan Murray
@sked21 (https://twitter.com/#!/sked21) good question. Depends on ownership of ground, I suppose. If Hearts want the land and stadium built for no lump sum- tenants only

mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/#!/mrewanmurray) Ewan Murray
Same COMAH regulations which limit Tynecastle redevelopment hinder property potential. Site unlikely to be worth more than £8m-£10m now.

mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/#!/mrewanmurray) Ewan Murray @lawrencebroadie (https://twitter.com/#!/lawrencebroadie) something definitely changed. Or so Hearts believe- hence massive drop in Tynecastle value.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Aren't all the newer bits of Tynie built like a Meccano set so that they can be taken to bits and moved?

[PaulSmith]

"And don't forget training facilities Mr Cardownie, we've just got to have them and regeneration of the area will be complete."

"Of course, I presume that these affable Edinburgh chaps won't mind their 'community' stadium having Heart of Midlothian emblazoned across it. Oh and yes, you will have sole use of the new indoor training centre. Rent, erm no need, a few season tickets will see us through"

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Back to op
A report by "hearts and the council" why were they conducting a joint report?
Would the council do this for any other business
Land swap good for bad?
Vlad must think his lottery numbers come up
I cannot believe this crap will be allowed to stand whilst the council tax payers are shafted!

[NeilOrrSquareBa]

I smell Shoit!

[sidjames]

Ok so they build it. We should be involved to the extent of having it named The Hibernian Stadium. Enjoy.

[basehibby]

Because as sure as the pope is catholic, once the property market recovers ever so slightly, the cooncil will be back with their plan to punt Meadowbank and explain it away with the east has the jack kane, the west will have the new whatever they build.
More public assets/facilities punted by this council to allow them to continue to screw us all...Leith Water world closes in January, yet another example.

Absolutely disgusting that the council are even suggesting funding a stadium for their pet team of mutants and child molesters when they won't even find the funding to keep this well used attraction operating - just told my daughter about it (8) and she is genuinely upset!

[YehButNoBut]

Story now on BBC website

Hearts have taken another step towards a move away from Tynecastle Stadium, with a report concluding that redevelopment is "not a viable option".
The consultants' report, jointly commissioned by the club and City of Edinburgh Council, recommends that an alternative site is found.
The report warns that Hearts' home of 125 years is "in poor condition and lacks many amenities".
It also says the stadium is "non Uefa compliant".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15454441.stm

[Westie1875]

:hmmm: This is starting to smell bad.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111025/stadium-update_2241384_2493727



the owner and Board remain determined to develop a first class footballing arena in the city.



This already exists within the city, and it didn't cost the public purse any cash, job done.

[Westie1875]

Story now on BBC website

Hearts have taken another step towards a move away from Tynecastle Stadium, with a report concluding that redevelopment is "not a viable option".
The consultants' report, jointly commissioned by the club and City of Edinburgh Council, recommends that an alternative site is found.
The report warns that Hearts' home of 125 years is "in poor condition and lacks many amenities".
It also says the stadium is "non Uefa compliant".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15454441.stm

Hibs better be all over this, who is paying for these reports to be completed, it better not be the council? Since when was it not a viable option, wasn't so long ago they had all of their cardboard replicas out shouting about a new £50m main stand, muppets.

And I see they've now snuck in suggestion of training facilities too, Petrie should be asking when we will be re-imbursed if we offer some public use of our facilities to ensure fairness if the council contribute one penny towards this.

[KeithTheHibby]

Are they talking about Sighthill Park?

Helluva slope on that land, would imagine that would cost a few quid to level out the whole area.

Anyway not sure why I am typing this, couldn't give a flying **** about that mob providing they don't get a penny from public coffers.

[Peevemor]

A report jointly commissioned by Heart of Midlothian Football Club and City of Edinburgh Council has concluded that the redevelopment of the club's Tynecastle Stadium is "not a viable option".


The report, which aimed to provide the club and its stakeholders with a clear independent opinion about stadium development options, was submitted to City of Edinburgh Council this week and recommends that an alternative site for a new stadium is sought that is "entirely sustainable and commercially viable".

Why are the Council commissioning independant reports into the state of a foreign-owned private company? :wtf:

[EasterRoad4Ever]

Hibs better be all over this, who is paying for these reports to be completed, it better not be the council? Since when was it not a viable option, wasn't so long ago they had all of their cardboard replicas out shouting about a new £50m main stand, muppets.

And I see they've now snuck in suggestion of training facilities too, Petrie should be asking when we will be re-imbursed if we offer some public use of our facilities to ensure fairness if the council contribute one penny towards this.

I've no problem in the Yams getting bailed out by the EDC.... as long as Hibs get equal value in cash !!! EDC cannot afford that, so cannot afford to get into bed with the corrupt Lithies.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's not just Tynecastle that isn't viable, its also the muppets that infest it.

[Hibs Class]

Ok so they build it. We should be involved to the extent of having it named The Hibernian Stadium. Enjoy.


Disagree.


























We should be involved more than that. Half of it should have green seats and Sunshine on Leith should be played before every match. There should also be a local bye-law which prohibits the fud-like twirling of scarves.

[God Petrie]

Gates for any hearts home games close 90 minutes prior to kick off at which point a rerun of the 7-0 match is played on all available tvs and screens.

[speedy_gonzales]

I've no problem in the Yams getting bailed out by the EDC.... as long as Hibs get equal value in cash !!! EDC cannot afford that, so cannot afford to get into bed with the corrupt Lithies.
Not just Hibs but any sporting organisation based within Edinburgh.
There is no justifiable reason for Edinburgh Council to get itself further in debt or lose assets forever(land) to the exclusive betterment of a single 'business'.
The council, if this EVER goes ahead, may say a land swap is in the interest of the Edinburgh people but I'd be very surprised if any deal between them was fair. Tynecastle is virtually impossible to develop due to the safety/blast zone nonsense whereas Sighthill is currently getting redeveloped, access is better(might even be a tramline one day) and further development is not going to be an issue.
I don't normally get too excited until plans are firmly in place but I have a horrible feeling this has been discussed by the relevant parties, behind closed doors, for some time.

[truehibernian]

Why are the Council commissioning independant reports into the state of a foreign-owned private company? :wtf:

Did the council not have a shared interest (and correct me if I am wrong) due to the original proposal from Hearts offering a new(er) nursery and adult learning facility (that was already there) ??

IIRC, City of Edinburgh Council agreed back in 2008/9 to sell Hearts land (to allow them to build their 'superstand'), which meant Hearts would in turn build a new nursery and adult learning facility (and their main stand). This was in line with the 'regeneration of Dalry/Gorgie'. I think at the time one of the councillors said that the council had a duty to provide nursery and community provision in the area if they sold land to Hearts, and that Hearts had to meet certain criteria and show they could hold up their end of the 'bargain'.

My question for Steve Cardownie would be this - if it was seen as viable, or to agree in principle, to sell land to Hearts back then, then why are Hearts letting down the very 'community' the council wanted to see benefit from a new main stand at Tynecastle ? And what becomes of the Gorgie community/businesses who benefit from Hearts being there at present (not that I give a sook cos I live in South Edinburgh).........anyway, at the end of the day I am a Hibernian supporter and Hearts can play anywhere they wish. I have faith that there are many many councillors who will not share the view of Hearts or Cardownie..........if anyone wants to e-mail a good Hibby (but sadly a Tory), then Iain Whyte is the man to start the 'all those against' motion

[easty]

What is the actual reason Hearts are giving for dismissing Murrayfield as an option? Is there a reason its not being mentioned?

I don't understand why a "community stadium" is needed at all.

[Kaiser1962]

Hearts have had two "debt for equity" swaps totalling £22m (2008 and 2010). Last year they had a "debt forgiveness" of nearly £9m and still had a debt in the last accounts of £36.1m. For the avoidance of doubt this money was used to try to win football matches FFS and did not benefit the community in any way, shape or form.

The fact EDC are even considering entertaining these charlatans should lead to charges of negilgence whilst in a public office IMO and should be treated as such.

[Hainan Hibs]

With the cuts the Council are going through with it would be a ****ing disgrace if they help out that manky lot.

[jdships]

Not just Hibs but any sporting organisation based within Edinburgh.
There is no justifiable reason for Edinburgh Council to get itself further in debt or lose assets forever(land) to the exclusive betterment of a single 'business'.
The council, if this EVER goes ahead, may say a land swap is in the interest of the Edinburgh people but I'd be very surprised if any deal between them was fair. Tynecastle is virtually impossible to develop due to the safety/blast zone nonsense whereas Sighthill is currently getting redeveloped, access is better(might even be a tramline one day) and further development is not going to be an issue.
I don't normally get too excited until plans are firmly in place but I have a horrible feeling this has been discussed by the relevant parties, behind closed doors, for some time.


Agree totally with your first paragraph . As an " opposition" councillor said to me this afternoon "This is surely undemocratic "
Fine but this has surely been Jenny Dawe's way of doing things for a few years now so do we as Council Tax payers have any redress ?

Re last sentence .
I was told by a member of ECC Architects Department back in August that " informal" meetings were taking place with HMFC regarding
" .........relocation to a Council built/owned stadium in West Edinburgh - but not on David Murray's land "
I thought at the time it was probably a "Gregg's" story but with what has come out today it appears there may be some truth in the story !!!

:confused:

[steakbake]

The recent statements in the press, the HMFC survey and now this. It's a done deal, I reckon.

[ballengeich]

It's vital that the new stadium includes a tram stop.

[Kaiser1962]

I forgot to mention the ongoing HMRC investigation into alleged "tax avoidance" measures. If found to be proven it would only mean that, on top of everything else, they were depriving the exchequer of much need tax income through subterfuge and to then seek a public handout beggars belief.

[CropleyWasGod]

Am I missing something here?

Even if the land-swap goes through, and even if CEC build a stadium for Hearts and others to use, they will still have a debt of £36m. With no assets... other than the land on which the stadium is built. An unsellable asset.

Still gubbed.

No? What have I missed?

[degenerated]

Am I missing something here?

Even if the land-swap goes through, and even if CEC build a stadium for Hearts and others to use, they will still have a debt of £36m. With no assets... other than the land on which the stadium is built. An unsellable asset.

Still gubbed.

No? What have I missed?

But the council will have wasted a fortune on yet another white elephant at the expense of services and jobs.

[CropleyWasGod]

But the council will have wasted a fortune on yet another white elephant at the expense of services and jobs.

Which is the real issue, isn't it? Not that they're trying to bail out Hearts.

[Www1875hfc]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111025/stadium-update_2241384_2493727

[Barney McGrew]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111025/stadium-update_2241384_2493727

That reads very much to me that Hertz are the ones calling the shots and making demands on a new stadium. If they're going cap in hand to the council, then surely it should be the other way round?

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. Let's see how the council can possibly justify *****ing millions of taxpayers dough on bailing out a loss making, Lithuanian owned company just so the 'community' gets to use a couple of facilities now and then.

[poolman]

Have I missed something

Is this not going ahead then :confused:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/6954606.stm :greengrin

[MrSmith]

If this comes to fruition then, there will be no more council tax from me! And I think this is the place to start, deprive the council of their monthly funding and we shall see what they do!

[greenlex]

It's vital that the new stadium includes a TRAMP stop.

There fixed that for you.

[Kato]

Looking very much like this has all been done and dusted behind closed doors and the recent "opening of negotiations" are just a piece of badly acted out theatre.

Unless Hibs and other sporting bodies in the Capital get moines to the equivalent the bambo's are getting no more dosh from me.

It's bad enough the utter farce they've made of the trams, not to mention the businesses they've ruined in Leith. We'll be picking up the tab for that one for decades to come so I don't see why I should pay for those ugly wastrels to flit on top of that.

Taking into account the many and varied ways they've shafted Hibs over the years and the fact they continue to this shows what a petty minded shower of bigots inhabit the ECC. A mixture of crooks and clowns.

[ScottB]

I fail to see how EC can afford this, they don't have the funds for the trams, they can't raise council tax. Are EC going to go into hock to build this stadium for Hearts? Why? Do they fear Vlad pulling the plug and blaming them if they don't?

Secondly, this all proves the new mega stand and what not was surely always nonsense, unless of course this new report is nonsense to try and force the Council over a barrel.


I fail to see what public use can be gained from a stadium, and there's already extensive gym facilities available to the public in Sighthill at the new Napier campus. There is absolutely no justifiable 'public' reason to do this, beyond some councilors desire not to lose the votes of grieving Hearts fans when their owner pulls the plug and sails off into the distance.

That such a large, expensive and extremely controversial project, that was in no parties manifesto could go ahead without any at least tacit backing from the public of the city at large is pretty damn undemocratic. Though on the plus side it'll probably take them 10 years to build the stupid thing!

[Kato]

try and force the Council over a barrel.


The council like being being over a barrel to Hearts - it's their preferred position.

Breeks roond ankles and Jamboids Ahoy!!!

It's going to happen. I'm already getting used to it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What if hearts went bust would the council have to buy out their share and get them to pay rent

A while ago I had a mate who worked for a decent sized bank apparently a certain lith was turned down for a credit card at said bank. Urban myth or not surely vlad is a credit risk

[Rick Rude]

May I suggest that everyone makes their feelings loud and clear to their local councillor or alternatively every single councillor. Both telephone and email addresses can be found here http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/name

[tamig]

Why are the Council commissioning independant reports into the state of a foreign-owned private company? :wtf:

And how much did this independently produced report cost and who paid? Surely this is something we can obtain under FoI?

[Bishop Hibee]

Feel free to turn up at The Melville pub on a Friday afternoon and give the ******** your views on the matter :grr:

I will be letting all my councillors know what I think of this proposed use of taxpayers money/land.

[TRC]

I have a funny feeling that the SNP Council are trying to land the next incumbent with a similar situation to they were left with from the previous incumbent, i.e the trams. Would not surprise me in the slightest!

[Pete]

They even have the nerve to insist on no athletics track. If there was a new community stadium to be built in edinburgh then a track would have to be the number one priority.
How can they use hull and bolton as examples? There was nothing similar in these areas before the kc and reebok...yet edinburgh already has easter road, murrayfield and meadowbank...which could be redeveloped for less than what they would spend on this tie-up with hearts.

If this ends up getting the go ahead than we have to act collectively. I don't know what we can do precisely but something has to be done to expose these fraudsters.

[Albion Hibs]

If hearts are commissioning these reports then the reality is that within reason they will say whatever hearts want them to say. It seems like a PR exercise to convince the fans first that the stadium does not work, they will then move to the politics side of things.

Looking at it simply, why would the council give away a larger piece of land in sighthill for tynecastle. The reality is all they will use if for is social housing, in which case they could get more on a bigger area in sighthill. Thereafter, if anyone from CEC had read a paper in the last 6 years they will know hearts dont play there players, why would they even entertain the fact that hearts will deliver a deal to the council on the terms agreed on day one.

Finally, I have said it before, but i will be f****d if my council tax / income tax is going towards paying for hearts to get a new stadium because some mad guy is laundering his money through them. The council cannot seriously considering pumping money into a few football pitches, which vlad will probably stop them using, when folk will be getting laid off and services to the edinburgh community as a whole reduced and withdrawn.

From the situation I can see the benefit to hearts, Vlad takes out some money, dumps them in a rented facility and then disappears off for good. Hearts to get a new ground so the ferrits can walk around with a rank grin on their horrible jambo faces, but what do the council get? The next meadowbank, but on a different scale that can only be used when hearts say? Why not sell the site in sighthill and invest the money in meadowbank.

I am sure the powers that be in CEC are probably thinking of some farcial scheme that will involve a stadium that will be massively over budget, the hearts will pull out of half way through and leave us to pick up the tab, but on a postive note, a tram...may one day stop within three miles of the ground....or at very least there will be a few cones, and holes in the ground for the track to go in.

CEC, how about you sort out the roads, focus on providing jobs and services for Edinburgh, investing money in things like the festival that make us money, rather than pissing about with infrastructure projects that you will make a mess of.

[jacomo]

Maybe Vlad's been playing the long game and now sees a way out.

Palm off the club to a "community stadium" - Hearts pay a rent to the Council to (eventually) pay off the construction costs.

Meanwhile, Vlad sells Tynecastle for flats and pockets the money. Hearts recorded debt will drop, but they'll remain in hock to him for ever.

My question is, how long will this take? Assuming they haven't event identified a site for a new stadium yet, it must be at least five years away. Can Tynecastle last that long?

[Eire hibs]

In the unlikely event it gets built, just how many planning objections can be made to delay the process?

[Dr Jimmy]

I don't understand how redevelopment of Tynecastle is not a "viable option". Surely they could knock the old stand down and build a new one the same size, but with less seats to make it safe. The other 3 stands can have the front few rows removed as well to make the whole thing Eufa compliant. This whole affair smacks of hearts WANTING a new stadium rather than NEEDING one. At a time when CEC are faced with budget gaps, because of the trams, and are facing massive cuts (some to essential services for the citizens they represent) this is a shameful exercise. It won't be just Hibbys that object to this, there are plenty of non football fan tax payers in Edinburgh who will object plus all the glory hunters who head through to Glasgow each week.

[Kato]

Community Stadium = must have running track.

No brainer.

[steakbake]

In the unlikely event it gets built, just how many planning objections can be made to delay the process?

I'd imagine before it even got to that, you'd be interested in what comes back from FOI requests about the conduct of the council in getting to that stage.

Isn't it an old phrase in Edinburgh that we've got the best councillors that money can buy?

[GlesgaeHibby]

It took lumps of money and a few months for a report that states the stadium “is in poor condition, lacks many amenities, is constrained by adjacent occupiers and is non-Uefa compliant”. :faf:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Did they ever pay for the nursery what hapPens with that?
Mucking kids and their parents about for nothing ? Surely if they did get it it was on false pretenses and wasn't there some query as to whether the council sold them it as market value rotten to the core the lot of them

[bighairyfaeleith]

Just written to my local councillor, this stinks and no way we should let them get away with this easily!

Every councillor should be quite clear this is a vote loser if they go ahead.

[AndyM_1875]

It took lumps of money and a few months for a report that states the stadium “is in poor condition, lacks many amenities, is constrained by adjacent occupiers and is non-Uefa compliant”. :faf:

They could have seen that on Sunday when as Rangers swarmed all over Hertz a desperate Jambo defensive clearance into the stratosphere came crashing down on to the Old Stand roof, showering the numpies in the stand below with roof debris (Asbestos?).

[hibsbollah]

Its all gone a bit biblical at Waverley Court. Its the feeding of the 400,000.

[Twa Cairpets]

For those of you that pay CEC taxes, the question could be

"Rather than pumping millions into a private business how about using that money to provide another 15 or 20 all-weather faciltiies for genuine community use across all areas of the city? Or build 2-3 facilties like Toryglen in Glasgow"

The more I've thought about this the more utterly scandalous it would be to pump a single penny of cash into this mob beyond what they are required to do as a council. If Hearts were a club with a semblance of a legitimate or sustainable business model I might have had some sympathy, but the minute they receive any special assistance the minute they are rewarded for their gross mismanagement for years. And that is wrong in both a sporting and corporate level.

[greenginger]

I don't understand how redevelopment of Tynecastle is not a "viable option". Surely they could knock the old stand down and build a new one the same size, but with less seats to make it safe. The other 3 stands can have the front few rows removed as well to make the whole thing Eufa compliant. This whole affair smacks of hearts WANTING a new stadium rather than NEEDING one. At a time when CEC are faced with budget gaps, because of the trams, and are facing massive cuts (some to essential services for the citizens they represent) this is a shameful exercise. It won't be just Hibbys that object to this, there are plenty of non football fan tax payers in Edinburgh who will object plus all the glory hunters who head through to Glasgow each week.


Stage 1 Demolish the asbestos hut and construct new main stand approx capacity 6,000-----------------£10 million

stage 2 Acquire 5 metre wide strip of land behind Roseburn Stand , take down rebuild bus-shelter
style stand (if listed :greengrin ) otherwise build new stand cap. 3500 ---------------------------£ 6 million


EUFA compliant stadium no public cash required job done :agree:

[Sergio sledge]

So, let me get this straight;

In September 2004, the shareholders approved the sale of Tynecastle for £20.5m (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/3656082.stm)because it was no longer viable.
They were losing £2m a season at this stage. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4085225.stm)
This would have cleared their debt of £17.6m (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4247671.stm), allowing them to move to Murrayfield (a modern, fully equipped stadium within 1 mile of their existing stadium) debt free.
There was massive opposition to this, including protests and threats to Chris Robinson.
Hearts spent £75,000 to buy out the Cala deal.
Hearts spent £100,000 on stadium improvements.
Hearts spent £1m on a planning application for their new stand
Hearts debt is now £35m (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/8712040.stm)after £20m debt for equity swaps and £9m debt forgiveness and they are making a loss of £8m+ a year.
Seven years on from the Cala sale, Mr Romanov has concluded that the stadium is "no longer viable" and are trying to sell/swap land, now only worth £8m-£10m, to the council and get the council to build them a new out of town "community stadium."
Best case scenario, (for them) Hearts sell Tynecastle for £10m, move into and rent a community stadium built by the council and now have no assets but still have a debt of £25m to service and clear and are still making massive losses.
Hearts fans are hailing their great leader.























Well, he did captain a submarine through the Baltic, so he must know what he is doing.......








:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:
(It's a shame only 10 smilies are allowed per post....)

[Caversham Green]

The council are proposing to enter into a joint venture with a company whose ability to continue trading for the next twelve months has been questioned by their own auditors. The very least that can be said about that is that it would be reckless.

An unqualified audit report is a minimum requirement before such an arrangement can take place and until HoMFC have one the council would be negligent in undertaking this project.

[ScottB]

The council are proposing to enter into a joint venture with a company whose ability to continue trading for the next twelve months has been questioned by their own auditors. The very least that can be said about that is that it would be reckless.

An unqualified audit report is a minimum requirement before such an arrangement can take place and until HoMFC have one the council would be negligent in undertaking this project.

Pretty much, in every logical sense, this plan is insane for the council:

A heavily indebted business, questions over whether it is even solvent.
Court case pending from HMRC over tax issues.
History of paying bills late / not at all.
History of failing to pay staff on time.
Employment / continued employment of 'questionable' people.
Foreign owned, not only that but owned by a foreigner who claims to be more than rich enough to pay for the construction of a stadium himself.

These are the questions, never mind the questionable need any community could ever really have for a 20k ish seater stadium.

[s.a.m]

The council are proposing to enter into a joint venture with a company whose ability to continue trading for the next twelve months has been questioned by their own auditors. The very least that can be said about that is that it would be reckless.

An unqualified audit report is a minimum requirement before such an arrangement can take place and until HoMFC have one the council would be negligent in undertaking this project.

It is your duty to the people of Edinburgh to point this out to the council.:agree:

[truehibernian]

The council are proposing to enter into a joint venture with a company whose ability to continue trading for the next twelve months has been questioned by their own auditors. The very least that can be said about that is that it would be reckless.

An unqualified audit report is a minimum requirement before such an arrangement can take place and until HoMFC have one the council would be negligent in undertaking this project.

CG, nothing surprises me with CEC to be honest. I was at a meeting at Chambers two weeks ago where we secured funding for a project that has been in the planning since 2006. The hoops, hurdles, pit-falls we have had to go through and endure to secure what is 'minimum funding' for our overall project has been frightening and a real eye opener for me. And it is a youth related, community project.

If the council are that concerned about a community stadium, or providing adequate sporting facilities, then they should be upgrading and renovating the various changing rooms, pitches and parks that already exist all around the Edinburgh area. Then ALL communities benefit.

It's not going to happen in my opinion. Even if it did, I am a Hibs fan........what Hearts do has never concerned me at all. Hibs need Hearts and vice versa in my honest opinion, on the football front. That's why I have always been on the 'hope they don't go bust' side of the fence......I love derby days, I love the fact we are a city divided, again, on the footballing front. Not having them around would give us a little bit of gloating time but then a hole to fill when we start missing derby days and banter.

If Hibs played on the Meadows I would support them, likewise if Hearts played in an Edinburgh Bernabeu I wouldn't care a jot. It's Hibs that matter to me. I know the crux of the matter is City of Edinburgh Council 'bailing them out' or showing unfair favouritism towards them. Totally accept that, but again, I am also a person who has faith in human beings, and certainly those with common sense and realism.

We are in deep recession, the CEC lack funds, all public and private sector industries and services are making cuts and handing out redundancies. The tram project is now known as a national disgrace. Banks are quickly asking football clubs for their money back and withdrawing their interest in football, crowds are dwindling, Scottish football (and sport) is suffering a decline. Deals and sponsorship are lower and lower each year and harder to come by. That's what gives me the confidence to say that whatever a Hearts supporting councillor says to a local media outlet as a 'soundbite', common sense will prevail. When the police, fire service and NHS (and the council themselves) are now having to make 20% savings across the board, affecting key front line services, I am quite sure this proposal would be of national interest, not just to Edinburgh. It simply won't happen.

Anyway......back to my tea and apricot croissant :greengrin Hibs have a game tonight, and in our spiritual home :wink:, far too much talk about Hertz for me today. In saying that I may also look into a possible Greggs franchise in the Sighthill area..........these Yams are partial to a yum yum or two judging by their waistlines !

Glory glory and all that :agree:

[--------]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111025/stadium-update_2241384_2493727

I notice that according to this article 'the club' have ruled out the possibility of an athletics track being included.

What use is a 'community stadium' without athletics facilities?



There's bribery going on here.

[happiehibbie]

I am also not happy that Hearts seem to have the council on side Anyway

this may hurt but I would welcome a shared stadium this should have happen years ago both teams do not have enough support to sustane there own stadiums we have just posted 900k loss and our crowds are falling fast why because we are rubbish at the moment and sold all our tallented players.How i wouls do it is to get some land dont care where as when we had hands of hibs i would have watched them in Inverlieth park better that than not having Hibs anyway our stands are all meccano sets and could be taken down and resited elsewhere simple but its not going to happen WHY because STF gets rent from Hibs every month for HIS land not hibernianFC remenber he broke up the companies after Duff and Gray Hibernian FC is only ther football team no fixed assests.

As always hearts and other teams have dragged there heels in getting new stadiums in place Hibs have went through hell and the playing side is showing the signs of the last 10 years of investments training ground stadium ETC ETC Hearts will get help form the council you can be rest assured

but a shared ground with shared costs is what Edinburgh needs which in turn I would like to think give us a better team to watch on the park because i dont care about the ground i want to watch the Hibs play good football and entertain me !!

sorry for spelling mistakes

[qiut]

Did the council in Liverpool not try and pull a similar stunt?

They were going to build a stadium for Liverpool but Everton were getting Nowt.

Not sure if that one is still onhgoing or was bombed out.

[blackpoolhibs]

I notice that according to this article 'the club' have ruled out the possibility of an athletics track being included.

What use is a 'community stadium' without athletics facilities?



There's bribery going on here.

Exactly, a community stadium that just has football for the yams, thats all they are proposing here.

[Caversham Green]

I am also not happy that Hearts seem to have the council on side Anyway

this may hurt but I would welcome a shared stadium this should have happen years ago both teams do not have enough support to sustane there own stadiums we have just posted 900k loss and our crowds are falling fast why because we are rubbish at the moment and sold all our tallented players.How i wouls do it is to get some land dont care where as when we had hands of hibs i would have watched them in Inverlieth park better that than not having Hibs anyway our stands are all meccano sets and could be taken down and resited elsewhere simple but its not going to happen WHY because STF gets rent from Hibs every month for HIS land not hibernianFC remenber he broke up the companies after Duff and Gray Hibernian FC is only ther football team no fixed assests.

As always hearts and other teams have dragged there heels in getting new stadiums in place Hibs have went through hell and the playing side is showing the signs of the last 10 years of investments training ground stadium ETC ETC Hearts will get help form the council you can be rest assured

but a shared ground with shared costs is what Edinburgh needs which in turn I would like to think give us a better team to watch on the park because i dont care about the ground i want to watch the Hibs play good football and entertain me !!

sorry for spelling mistakes

Not so. The football club owns both the stadium and the training centre. THe only property Hibs rent is the ticket office at £24k per annum.

I think Hibs should be proposing a groundshare as an alternative to the council plan as it makes more sense to everyone involved financially if not emotionally.

[blackpoolhibs]

Not so. The football club owns both the stadium and the training centre. THe only property Hibs rent is the ticket office at £24k per annum.

I think Hibs should be proposing a groundshare as an alternative to the council plan as it makes more sense to everyone involved financially if not emotionally.

I have been thinking this way too, especially when we have Meadowbank virtually right on our doorstep. If there was to be a new community stadium, would it not be more viable to have it there. The site is bought and paid for, both clubs could move in when its refurbished.

Both clubs could then sell their grounds, and have the proceeds tucked up un their respective bank accounts, :wink: and share the costs of the new Meadowbank.

[Caversham Green]

CG, nothing surprises me with CEC to be honest. I was at a meeting at Chambers two weeks ago where we secured funding for a project that has been in the planning since 2006. The hoops, hurdles, pit-falls we have had to go through and endure to secure what is 'minimum funding' for our overall project has been frightening and a real eye opener for me. And it is a youth related, community project.

If the council are that concerned about a community stadium, or providing adequate sporting facilities, then they should be upgrading and renovating the various changing rooms, pitches and parks that already exist all around the Edinburgh area. Then ALL communities benefit.

It's not going to happen in my opinion. Even if it did, I am a Hibs fan........what Hearts do has never concerned me at all. Hibs need Hearts and vice versa in my honest opinion, on the football front. That's why I have always been on the 'hope they don't go bust' side of the fence......I love derby days, I love the fact we are a city divided, again, on the footballing front. Not having them around would give us a little bit of gloating time but then a hole to fill when we start missing derby days and banter.

If Hibs played on the Meadows I would support them, likewise if Hearts played in an Edinburgh Bernabeu I wouldn't care a jot. It's Hibs that matter to me. I know the crux of the matter is City of Edinburgh Council 'bailing them out' or showing unfair favouritism towards them. Totally accept that, but again, I am also a person who has faith in human beings, and certainly those with common sense and realism.

We are in deep recession, the CEC lack funds, all public and private sector industries and services are making cuts and handing out redundancies. The tram project is now known as a national disgrace. Banks are quickly asking football clubs for their money back and withdrawing their interest in football, crowds are dwindling, Scottish football (and sport) is suffering a decline. Deals and sponsorship are lower and lower each year and harder to come by. That's what gives me the confidence to say that whatever a Hearts supporting councillor says to a local media outlet as a 'soundbite', common sense will prevail. When the police, fire service and NHS (and the council themselves) are now having to make 20% savings across the board, affecting key front line services, I am quite sure this proposal would be of national interest, not just to Edinburgh. It simply won't happen.

Anyway......back to my tea and apricot croissant :greengrin Hibs have a game tonight, and in our spiritual home :wink:, far too much talk about Hertz for me today. In saying that I may also look into a possible Greggs franchise in the Sighthill area..........these Yams are partial to a yum yum or two judging by their waistlines !

Glory glory and all that :agree:

Good post TH and very much how I feel, but I think the Yams need taken down a peg or two - I doubt if they'd disappear completely in any case but a few decades of discomfort wouldn't do them any harm.

You have more faith in the intelligence and integrity of councillors than I do though.

[happiehibbie]

Not so. The football club owns both the stadium and the training centre. THe only property Hibs rent is the ticket office at £24k per annum.

I think Hibs should be proposing a groundshare as an alternative to the council plan as it makes more sense to everyone involved financially if not emotionally.

Forgive me if am wrong but I am sure there are several compainies that make up our hibs team Hibernian FC and Hibernian PLC i will check companies house to make sure but am with you we need to put our thoughts personal or other wise and ground share !!

[Caversham Green]

I have been thinking this way too, especially when we have Meadowbank virtually right on our doorstep. If there was to be a new community stadium, would it not be more viable to have it there. The site is bought and paid for, both clubs could move in when its refurbished.

Both clubs could then sell their grounds, and have the proceeds tucked up un their respective bank accounts, :wink: and share the costs of the new Meadowbank.

I was thinking along the lines of renting ER to them. Brings money in for Hibs, save capital costs for the Yams (that they don't have anyway) and costs the council nothing.

[blackpoolhibs]

I was thinking along the lines of renting ER to them. Brings money in for Hibs, save capital costs for the Yams (that they don't have anyway) and costs the council nothing.

Even better. :agree:

[Caversham Green]

Forgive me if am wrong but I am sure there are several compainies that make up our hibs team Hibernian FC and Hibernian PLC i will check companies house to make sure but am with you we need to put our thoughts personal or other wise and ground share !!

There are several companies in the group, but The Hibernian Football Club Limited is the only one that trades and is the owner of all of the property apart from the TO which is owned by HFC Holdings Ltd. There are no PLCs in the group.

[happiehibbie]

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/94610e87a6fd52dc54bc5daea31bf1b1/compdetails

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/94610e87a6fd52dc54bc5daea31bf1b1/compdetails

these are the two compaines run by STF who owns what i dont know but I am sure when STF gave our shares back they where for the team only not the assests
But we are going way off it does not really matter I hope we stuff the one half of the UGLY sisters tonight

[johnrebus]

CG, nothing surprises me with CEC to be honest. I was at a meeting at Chambers two weeks ago where we secured funding for a project that has been in the planning since 2006. The hoops, hurdles, pit-falls we have had to go through and endure to secure what is 'minimum funding' for our overall project has been frightening and a real eye opener for me. And it is a youth related, community project.

If the council are that concerned about a community stadium, or providing adequate sporting facilities, then they should be upgrading and renovating the various changing rooms, pitches and parks that already exist all around the Edinburgh area. Then ALL communities benefit.

It's not going to happen in my opinion. Even if it did, I am a Hibs fan........what Hearts do has never concerned me at all. Hibs need Hearts and vice versa in my honest opinion, on the football front. That's why I have always been on the 'hope they don't go bust' side of the fence......I love derby days, I love the fact we are a city divided, again, on the footballing front. Not having them around would give us a little bit of gloating time but then a hole to fill when we start missing derby days and banter.

If Hibs played on the Meadows I would support them, likewise if Hearts played in an Edinburgh Bernabeu I wouldn't care a jot. It's Hibs that matter to me. I know the crux of the matter is City of Edinburgh Council 'bailing them out' or showing unfair favouritism towards them. Totally accept that, but again, I am also a person who has faith in human beings, and certainly those with common sense and realism.

We are in deep recession, the CEC lack funds, all public and private sector industries and services are making cuts and handing out redundancies. The tram project is now known as a national disgrace. Banks are quickly asking football clubs for their money back and withdrawing their interest in football, crowds are dwindling, Scottish football (and sport) is suffering a decline. Deals and sponsorship are lower and lower each year and harder to come by. That's what gives me the confidence to say that whatever a Hearts supporting councillor says to a local media outlet as a 'soundbite', common sense will prevail. When the police, fire service and NHS (and the council themselves) are now having to make 20% savings across the board, affecting key front line services, I am quite sure this proposal would be of national interest, not just to Edinburgh. It simply won't happen.

Anyway......back to my tea and apricot croissant :greengrin Hibs have a game tonight, and in our spiritual home :wink:, far too much talk about Hertz for me today. In saying that I may also look into a possible Greggs franchise in the Sighthill area..........these Yams are partial to a yum yum or two judging by their waistlines !

Glory glory and all that :agree:


Excellent post.

Common sense has to tell in the end.

With jobs and services being cut, affecting everyone in the city including the elderly and infirm, there is no way the good folks of Edinburgh can allow this to happen - whatever football team they support. The quality of the people who run this city has been a constant source of depression for me over the years.

And I thought, what could they possibly do to top the tram debacle?

Now I know.

:sick:

[truehibernian]

Given our apparent love of all things peg related, we could always round up our caravans and inhabit the land in Sighthill......a more upmarket Dale Farm scenario :devil:. Took Basildon Council 10 years to get rid of them. Wait a minute, there's not a Waitrose near there, scratch that idea..................:greengrin

[matty_f]

We should take the council up on their offer and use the community stadium, but keep easter road. Our 19's and younger age groups could use it, and we'd hopfully insist on using the facilities at the same time as the Yams.

[Bad Martini]

Does anyone seriously believe the yams will be here long enough to use any stadium the council "project manage" the build for?

Based on their most recent projects, ooohhh let's see, we'll take the trams for example....it's a 10 year wait and it'll still be unfinished, not working and £34534875837573489 over budget.

That hole will be mightyyyyyyyyyyy big by then.

(they'll also be bust by then as will hopefully, the huns)

Cheered maself right up.

MON THE HIBS :thumbsup:

[inglisavhibs]

Why are the Council commissioning independant reports into the state of a foreign-owned private company? :wtf:

Think i will get my pen and paper out and write an appropriate letter to the council. I don't understand what has changed since the £50m stand was paraded and everyone said how wonderful life was going to be down Gorgie way. The council cannot be allowed to give a private football club one penny.

[silverhibee]

This is similar to the tactics the Sheep used to attempt to get the Aberdeen Cooncil to build a ''Community'' stadium. Voter pressure in a one team city played a fair part in the plan's demise. I can't see it being a go-er in a two team city no matter how much the Yams try to portray it is a nearly done deal.


And thats how it comes across.

[Gatecrasher]

Anyone know what the general view of the Hearts fans are on this? I would be interested to know if they would prefer to try and do it alone or if they think they are too much in the red and require the council's help.

[Baader]

Anyone know what the general view of the Hearts fans are on this? I would be interested to know if they would prefer to try and do it alone or if they think they are too much in the red and require the council's help.

Just speak to the Council hierarchy if you want the fans' view!!

[greenginger]

Stage 1 Demolish the asbestos hut and construct new main stand approx capacity 6,000-----------------£10 million

stage 2 Acquire 5 metre wide strip of land behind Roseburn Stand , take down rebuild bus-shelter
style stand (if listed :greengrin ) otherwise build new stand cap. 3500 ---------------------------£ 6 million


EUFA compliant stadium no public cash required job done :agree:



Amendment -- Just took a drive past the PBS and had a good lookat the Roseburn stand end. There must be about 10 metres between the back of the stand and the boundary wall with the old Tynecastle School, more than enough room to move the Stand and lengthen the pitch. No council land needed. Might have been a daylighting problem when school was operational but not now.

Only element missing is Vlad's Cash and he wants us to pay !

[Geo_1875]

Just heard that planning for the new community stadium is at an advanced stage. The Council are adamant that there will be a track for the runners and sandpits behind the goals for the long-jumpers. Hertz meanwhile, are demanding a grassy bit in the middle for the hammer-throwers.

[The Harp]

Some excellent posts on this thread, particularly the one from truehibernian.
It's probably been mentioned previously, but why on earth did the council even get involved in a joint report with HMFC? As far as I'm aware, the club is almost exclusively, privately owned by a foreign national, so there is no case whatsoever for council involvement. I'd imagine these reports don't come cheap, so have the council contributed towards the cost of it? Remember this is council tax payers money we're talking about here.
Because of their disastrous handling of the tram project, the council has already landed the city with a level of debt which be with us for years to come. They also have a record of going out their way to make life as difficult as possible for the Hibs but are prepared to bend the rules to accommodate their 'darlings' from Gorgie. This time though, I feel they're planning to go too far and can't be allowed to get away with it. I'm hoping, even at this stage, that Cardownie can be regarded as having a conflict of interest by being deputy leader of the council while having a heavy involvement in the welfare of HMFC.
It's time this farce was disowned by honourable people on the council - surely there are some of them.

[Dashing Bob S]

I think a starting point would be to identify elected officials who have Hibernian sympathies and approach them to clarify what is going on.

These shenanigans certainly need to be opposed, not just by Hibs fans, but by all local council tax payers. Even my Yam neighbour has expressed his contempt for this 'I don't want my money bailing out a Lithuanian-owned financially mismanaged business.'

[The_Todd]

I'd be irritated if in the current financial climate the council wasted a load of cash on a stadium for Hibs and I'd sure as hell be furious if they do it for Hearts.

I'm a taxpayer and voter first, football fan second. It's an unreal waste of public cash if it happens.

[happiehibbie]

Paul Following the problems experienced with Hearts re-development plans for Tynecastle as a result of the stadium's proximity to the adjacent Distillery site/ spirit Bond which is part of a COMAH blast zone, our Economic Development Service agreed to co-finance a development options study to help better inform their future options.

The study was carried out by Property Agents GVA. They have recommended that a new build is the best route forward. They reference a number of developments in England and Wales where Community Stadia have been realised through partnerships between local authorities and Football Clubs - Hull and Swansea (who ground share with the Ospreys Rugby Union team) being two particular examples.

Although GVA highlight sites in public ownership that could potentially be used for a similar collaboration in Edinburgh no commitment has been made by Council Officers to any proposition.

Hearts have put their own statement out and the Evening News has clearly picked up on this. I share you view that the Council cannot provide free accommodation to any private business indeed EU state aid regulations would prevent us from doing so. Happy to have a brief word on the margins of tomorrow's Council meeting hopefully to ease any worries that you may have.

[johnrebus]

Paul Following the problems experienced with Hearts re-development plans for Tynecastle as a result of the stadium's proximity to the adjacent Distillery site/ spirit Bond which is part of a COMAH blast zone, our Economic Development Service agreed to co-finance a development options study to help better inform their future options.

The study was carried out by Property Agents GVA. They have recommended that a new build is the best route forward. They reference a number of developments in England and Wales where Community Stadia have been realised through partnerships between local authorities and Football Clubs - Hull and Swansea (who ground share with the Ospreys Rugby Union team) being two particular examples.

Although GVA highlight sites in public ownership that could potentially be used for a similar collaboration in Edinburgh no commitment has been made by Council Officers to any proposition.

Hearts have put their own statement out and the Evening News has clearly picked up on this. I share you view that the Council cannot provide free accommodation to any private business indeed EU state aid regulations would prevent us from doing so. Happy to have a brief word on the margins of tomorrow's Council meeting hopefully to ease any worries that you may have.


If this is the case, then why is that arse Cardownie giving the whole thing some credence?

:confused:

[aljo7-0]

If this is the case, then why is that arse Cardownie giving the whole thing some credence?

:confused:

Kind of answered your own question there.

[Kato]

If this is the case, then why is that arse Cardownie giving the whole thing some credence?

:confused:

OK this is totally second hand so I'm just reporting what was said to me last night by a guy who has written to most of the councillors at CEC.

Cardownie and maybe one more councillor are trying to railroad this through, they are giving this a veneer of respectability and presenting it as a natural "done deal" using buzzwords like "community" and phrases like "Hearts are suffocating" (not fast enough for me).

The councillors who have replied are not happy with either Cardownie or the EEN as they are publicising this as though it is council policy whereas it is far from being so and given the legal aspects, which Cardownie seems ignorant of or maybe wants to crook his way past, will never be.

Can I just add I'm just sharing hearsay, this isn't really my info - oh, and that Cardownie is a Hertz **** with a big ugly napper.

[johnrebus]

OK this is totally second hand so I'm just reporting what was said to me last night by a guy who has written to most of the councillors at CEC.

Cardownie and maybe one more councillor are trying to railroad this through, they are giving this a veneer of respectability and presenting it as a natural "done deal" using buzzwords like "community" and phrases like "Hearts are suffocating" (not fast enough for me).

The councillors who have replied are not happy with either Cardownie or the EEN as they are publicising this as though it is council policy whereas it is far from being so and given the legal aspects, which Cardownie seems ignorant of or maybe wants to crook his way past, will never be.

Can I just add I'm just sharing hearsay, this isn't really my info - oh, and that Cardownie is a Hertz **** with a big ugly napper.

Sorry, wasn't doubting your info in any way. It's just that Cardownie may look like a total balloon, but I can't believe that he would act in such a way if he knew that EU regulations would stymie the whole affair.

With a bit of luck, maybe he is as stupid as he looks.

:greengrin

[Disc O'Dave]

See what gets my goat (well, one of the things), is the bringing up of "Hull and Swansea" and "successful joint development with councils".....fair enough, but neither of those teams has a natural rival top-flight team in the same city, so it's not like those councils have to worry about "bias" or "favouritism" - apparent or otherwise.

[chrisski33]

Sorry, wasn't doubting your info in any way. It's just that Cardownie may look like a total balloon, but I can't believe that he would act in such a way if he knew that EU regulations would stymie the whole affair.With a bit of luck, maybe he is as stupid as he looks.:greengrin Im not surprised he would act.and talk like a balloon hes a councillor and not a good one at that!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

THey wouldn't be living there for free though
Id imagine a nominal fee if cardownie has a say
If this goes ahead it should be set independently
Would be interesting to see the model Hull etc took to see if we can glean how it could be structured

I think it's one thing to assist with planning permission another to enter into some kindof joint venture is that what was proposed by Hibs ? Thought we just went down the straiton route. Although a ground share at meadobank was considered

[Hibs Class]

Which councillor did the first reply in the OP come from? It would be useful to understand which ones reply and which don't and to get an idea of where they claim to stand.

[Beefster]

Paul Following the problems experienced with Hearts re-development plans for Tynecastle as a result of the stadium's proximity to the adjacent Distillery site/ spirit Bond which is part of a COMAH blast zone, our Economic Development Service agreed to co-finance a development options study to help better inform their future options.

The study was carried out by Property Agents GVA. They have recommended that a new build is the best route forward. They reference a number of developments in England and Wales where Community Stadia have been realised through partnerships between local authorities and Football Clubs - Hull and Swansea (who ground share with the Ospreys Rugby Union team) being two particular examples.

Although GVA highlight sites in public ownership that could potentially be used for a similar collaboration in Edinburgh no commitment has been made by Council Officers to any proposition.

Hearts have put their own statement out and the Evening News has clearly picked up on this. I share you view that the Council cannot provide free accommodation to any private business indeed EU state aid regulations would prevent us from doing so. Happy to have a brief word on the margins of tomorrow's Council meeting hopefully to ease any worries that you may have.

The big difference being that Hull and Swansea each only have a single professional football team and so cannot be accused of bias by bailing one out and actively hindering the other.

[DC_Hibs]

The fact it was co-financed is an absolute disgrace.
Nail on the head re Swansea and Hull having no other football league teams.

As long as Cardownie sticks to his original view from last week:
Deputy council leader Steve Cardownie, a Hearts season ticket holder, said: “Anything is worth investigating at this stage, but everything depends on the costs. I don’t know what Hearts would throw into the pot

“I’ve heard that Sighthill has been mooted, and I do not believe this is an appropriate area for a big stadium. Ingliston or the Gogar area would be an ideal place to build on. I think it’s fair to say that this would have to be cost- neutral for the council.”
http://www.scotsman.com/news/hearts_look_to_team_up_with_city_to_create_new_sta dium_1_1918268

He's been against Sighthill since 2007
Councillor Cardownie said: "Our group believes it is imperative to retain a running track at Meadowbank and also provide either a refurbished or brand new sports complex in that area. We will be arguing that position with our coalition partners and also calling for the scrapping of the proposed arena at Sighthill.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/city_on_track_for_stadium_clash_1_1327830

Steve Cardownie - sponsored by russianbrides.com

[EasterRoad4Ever]

See what gets my goat (well, one of the things), is the bringing up of "Hull and Swansea" and "successful joint development with councils".....fair enough, but neither of those teams has a natural rival top-flight team in the same city, so it's not like those councils have to worry about "bias" or "favouritism" - apparent or otherwise.

:agree: exactly. I've no problem with this, as long as Hibs get the equivalent monetary value in hard cash from the Council - which they can't afford and won't happen

[Spike Mandela]

Hibs should call Cardownie's bluff. Take him up on offer of groundshare, put out a questionairre to Hibs fans and suggest more suitable areas around ER. Take a few years for consultation then pull out if it doesn't suit.

[blackpoolhibs]

I sent this, it was a copy and paste job of a piece Cavershamhibs did on one of these threads.

I'd like to register my opposition regarding this community stadium. And could these questions be answered by your good self.



1. Mr Cardownie has a well-publicised allegiance to Heart of Midlothian FC. Clearly, this means he is in no position to negotiate with that club on behalf of the Council. Please confirm that Mr Cardownie will have no involvement whatsoever in the discussions and negotiations regarding this project.

2. Recent audit reports on the accounts of Heart of Midlothian FC have been qualified with regard to the club's going concern status. Please advise what steps will be taken to ensure that the club will continue to contribute fully and fairly to the ongoing financial requirements of the proposed stadium throughout its useful life?

3. What other sports and activities will participate in this project, what will their contribution be, and is a stadium of the size proposed considered necessary for those sports and activities?

4. Has due consideration been given to a ground-sharing arrangement between Heart of Midlothian FC and Hibernian FC? This would not cost the council anything and would free up funds to either refurbish Meadowbank Stadium or to build a more appropriately sized stadium to cater for the other sports involved in this proposal.



Please note that this letter should not be considered private and confidential and nor will your reply.



Gary Bremner

One of the answers from it.

Dear Mr Bremner

Thank you for your comments on the subject of the stadium. I'm not sure I can answer your questions as this appears to be an initiative undertaken by the Council's ruling SNP/Liberal administration. My Labour colleague Gordon Munro has already expressed his irritation that more information appeared in The Evening News than was provided to him as a member of the Council's Economic Development Committee (he's grateful to the Evening News for this). Councillor Munro is certainly concerned about this, as I am, and no doubt the SNP Deputy Council Leader Steve Cardownie will face more questions about this. There really should be more openness and transparency about what's being proposed.

Regards
Cllr Bill Cook

And another

I will follow the discussions before making my decision although I would say that Edinburgh Council run by the SNP and Lib Dems is a shambles.

Neil Findlay MSP for the Lothians

The Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP

Tel 0131-348-6896

one more.

Gary,
Thanks for your email .
I am afraid I have no information on this , other than what I read in the papers , and that was just the headlines .
Let me assure you that as far as I am concerned the future of Meadownank should not be compromised by any other development anywhere in the city
Regards
Marjorie Thomas

Cllr Marjorie Thomas
Liberal Democrat for Leith Ward
Convenor, Licensing Board

tel: 0131 529 4988
[email protected]

[chrisski33]

Like mps i wouldnt trust councillors they will say anything to.appease the public then do the opposite.

[happiehibbie]

Hi guys the counciller I contact was Steve cardownie and Paul Eddie the reply came from Paul

hope this helps

[Peevemor]

I will follow the discussions before making my decision although I would say that Edinburgh Council run by the SNP and Lib Dems is a shambles.

Neil Findlay MSP for the Lothians

The Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP

:thumbsup:

[LancashireHibby]

See what gets my goat (well, one of the things), is the bringing up of "Hull and Swansea" and "successful joint development with councils".....fair enough, but neither of those teams has a natural rival top-flight team in the same city, so it's not like those councils have to worry about "bias" or "favouritism" - apparent or otherwise.

And both of those were done with the proceeds of the sale of two grounds apiece if memory serves me right (Hull City & Hull RL and the Vetch & the old Swansea RU ground) whereas it seems Tynecastle can't be sold for development (or else why can't they redevelop the existing ground?) and I can't see what Edinburgh Rugby are bringing to the pot.

[blackpoolhibs]

And both of those were done with the proceeds of the sale of two grounds apiece if memory serves me right (Hull City & Hull RL and the Vetch & the old Swansea RU ground) whereas it seems Tynecastle can't be sold for development (or else why can't they redevelop the existing ground?) and I can't see what Edinburgh Rugby are bringing to the pot.

Going by records from 2008, around 2800 crowds.

[Sammy7nil]

Reply from my councillor wh is a Hibby :wink:

Yesterday at committee I asked questions on this at committee. The Tynecastle study which has been part of press reporting was jointly commissioned between HMFC and City of Edinburgh Council.It cost £30,000. No copy of the study was made available to committee or as is usual practice in the Labour Group room so that it could be scrutinised. I have asked for a copy. I have today written to the Evening News on this state of affairs and hope that they will publish my letter.I attach a copy of this in case it is not published.
The position from yesterday is that this initial work will form the basis of a report containing recommendations on next steps and potential costs involved to the next committee .This meets on Tuesday 20th December. I hope this gives you some reassurance that despite recent press reports this is not a ' done deal'. Regards,

Re : Tynecastle Report



Dear Sir,

I must thank the Evening News for their report in today’s paper on the Tynecastle study. As a member of the Economic Development Committee your report contained more information than that given to the committee .



No copy of the study was made available to committee members or to the Labour Group so that councillors could scrutinise the contents. Considering that the council equally shared the £30,000 cost of the report this does give the impression , as do recent remarks in the press from a prominent Hearts supporter, that this is something that is being conducted behind closed doors.



I do hope that future work by council officers and decisions in this regard are conducted with openness and transparency rather than through the pages of the Press. There are important issues at stake here which deserve to be scrutinised rather than proclaimed through the Press.



Yours Sincerely,



Cllr. Gordon Munro – Leith ward Labour





Councillor Gordon Munro - Leith Ward Labour
Support Leith Festival - Click on Link and donate now

[Kato]

It cost £30,000.

As a complete aside.

Consultants = rip-off merchants.

30grand for a few spreadsheets and a print-out telling us Swinie is a ****heap? They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

[PaulSmith]

So the council paid £15,000 to tell us that Tynecastle wasn't fit for purpose.

Chris Robinson told us that several years ago and Mr Magoo wouldn't have had problems coming to that conclusion

Community stadiums have worked at Hull and Bolton, and so what? These are one club cities.

p.s just read that they wasted £4m on tenders for outsourcing the council refuse pick ups but now decided that they aren't changing.

[hibsbollah]

If this is the case, then why is that arse Cardownie giving the whole thing some credence?:confused:State aids are notoriously complex so its not always obvious whats a clear breach or non-breach. Basically any activity in a EU member state that receives local or national govt funding and returns a profit should not operate in competition with other private business. But a lot of that is down to your definition of open competition...and there are a long list of exempted activities, including activities with a community benefit...What is definite is that if there is any doubt, the coonsils state aid specialist in the legal services dept will advise the coonsil not to proceed with supporting the project. Being caught breaching EU state aids after the event would mean having to repay any financial support they received as well as a large fine. Councils are VERY careful about potential breaches.

[tamig]

See what gets my goat (well, one of the things), is the bringing up of "Hull and Swansea" and "successful joint development with councils".....fair enough, but neither of those teams has a natural rival top-flight team in the same city, so it's not like those councils have to worry about "bias" or "favouritism" - apparent or otherwise.

Absolutely. This anology with one club cities makes it irrelevant to the Hertz situation.

[degenerated]

If this is the case, then why is that arse Cardownie giving the whole thing some credence?

:confused:

cause he's a complete @rsehole with no understanding of anything other than getting his fat snout in the trough.

[tamig]

I sent this, it was a copy and paste job of a piece Cavershamhibs did on one of these threads.

I'd like to register my opposition regarding this community stadium. And could these questions be answered by your good self.



1. Mr Cardownie has a well-publicised allegiance to Heart of Midlothian FC. Clearly, this means he is in no position to negotiate with that club on behalf of the Council. Please confirm that Mr Cardownie will have no involvement whatsoever in the discussions and negotiations regarding this project.

2. Recent audit reports on the accounts of Heart of Midlothian FC have been qualified with regard to the club's going concern status. Please advise what steps will be taken to ensure that the club will continue to contribute fully and fairly to the ongoing financial requirements of the proposed stadium throughout its useful life?

3. What other sports and activities will participate in this project, what will their contribution be, and is a stadium of the size proposed considered necessary for those sports and activities?

4. Has due consideration been given to a ground-sharing arrangement between Heart of Midlothian FC and Hibernian FC? This would not cost the council anything and would free up funds to either refurbish Meadowbank Stadium or to build a more appropriately sized stadium to cater for the other sports involved in this proposal.



Please note that this letter should not be considered private and confidential and nor will your reply.



Gary Bremner

One of the answers from it.

Dear Mr Bremner

Thank you for your comments on the subject of the stadium. I'm not sure I can answer your questions as this appears to be an initiative undertaken by the Council's ruling SNP/Liberal administration. My Labour colleague Gordon Munro has already expressed his irritation that more information appeared in The Evening News than was provided to him as a member of the Council's Economic Development Committee (he's grateful to the Evening News for this). Councillor Munro is certainly concerned about this, as I am, and no doubt the SNP Deputy Council Leader Steve Cardownie will face more questions about this. There really should be more openness and transparency about what's being proposed.

Regards
Cllr Bill Cook

And another

I will follow the discussions before making my decision although I would say that Edinburgh Council run by the SNP and Lib Dems is a shambles.

Neil Findlay MSP for the Lothians

The Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP

Tel 0131-348-6896

one more.

Gary,
Thanks for your email .
I am afraid I have no information on this , other than what I read in the papers , and that was just the headlines .
Let me assure you that as far as I am concerned the future of Meadownank should not be compromised by any other development anywhere in the city
Regards
Marjorie Thomas

Cllr Marjorie Thomas
Liberal Democrat for Leith Ward
Convenor, Licensing Board

tel: 0131 529 4988
[email protected]

Some great responses in there. Excellent comments from Neil Findlay!

[hibsbollah]

According to wiki, Man Citys stadium was funded by Sport England £77 million and Manchester Council £33 million.

Obviously this was primarily for the Commonwealth Games but essentially Man City benefitted from coonsil funding, in a city with two teams in competition with each other, and got a new stadium built for them.

So there is some sort of precedent here.

[Disc O'Dave]

In any case, shouldn't the council be saving up all their (our) pennies in anticipation of the multi-million pounds-worth deluge of compensation claims from all the folk who fell victim to their "statutory notice" money making venture for them and their "preferred tradesmen" chums?...a system which ironically, should have been used to force Hearts to secure their ramshackle stand roof.....

[Gatecrasher]

According to wiki, Man Citys stadium was funded by Sport England £77 million and Manchester Council £33 million.

Obviously this was primarily for the Commonwealth Games but essentially Man City benefitted from coonsil funding, in a city with two teams in competition with each other, and got a new stadium built for them.

So there is some sort of precedent here.

Man City rent the Stadium from Manchester council. I dont know how much per year. The Stadium was going to be built anyway where this isnt. BTW i'm sure Man City have to Pay Manchester council £2 million per year just for the naming right. I'm think they might be looking to buy the stadium off the council at some point as well. This would never happen if Hearts made a deal with Edinburgh council

[hibs0666]

Has anyone submitted a FOI request on this yet or is that my job? :wink:

[LancashireHibby]

Community stadiums have worked at Hull and Bolton, and so what? These are one club cities.

By the way, thought it worth mentioning that although Hull only has one football club, they do have two rugby league clubs and obviously only one of those was a beneficary of the new stadium - if memory serves me right, Hull KR (the ones who stayed at their own ground) got a load of trade offs in return for not kicking up a stink about missing out on the new ground, one they were never going to move to as it was the wrong side of town for them. So maybe we can get some benefits out of this in future, although there again it's not as if we need any new stands or training facilities, is it?

[hibs0666]

For the sake of argument, let's say this new stadium was to cost £40 million plus £500K annual running costs. As a result, the tenants would have to pay something like £2.5 million per annum in rent to cover the costs over 20-25 years.

The success of this development will be dependent on the yams divvying up this cash, or the development will become yet another white elephant. Anyone that understands these numbers, and the financial state of the yams, and still presses ahead with the development would be out of their tiny minds.

[One Day Soon]

'Someone' might want to:

1. Formally ask the Council for a copy of the consultants report under the Freedom of Information Act.
2. Formallly ask the Council for a list of all meetings and minutes of meetings which have taken place within the council and between the council and its officials and external bodies regarding Heart of Midlothian Football club during the last three years under the Freedom of Information Act.
3. Formally write to the Auditor General for Scotland, Bob Black, asking for his view on the propriety of a proposal for City of Edinburgh Council to engage with HoMFC in developing a new stadium.
4. Formally write to City of Edinburgh Council's 'Council Solicitor' and also to its Chief Executive asking them to give their view on the propriety of any member of the Council with a declarable interest being party to any discussions on a proposed new stadium for HoMFC in partnership with the council and also as to whether any member with a declarable interest should in fact excuse themselves from all committees, votes and discussions pertaining to any such proposal.
5. Formally write to the Public Standards Commissioner for Scotland requesting that consideration be given as to whether appropriate conduct has taken place so far in this matter.

Just saying.

[Archie70]

I firmly believe that this will be pushed through and that the Heartz supporting Council will jump into bed with a foreign business man who has delivered nothing he has promised. Our local services will be cut to fund this joint venture which will be sold as benefit to the community. The club is so far in debt there is no other option, the Council bail them out or they cease to exist. That won't be allowed to happen.

Council bias has been evident over the years and something they've never really been challenged on.
The Butterfly site.
The refusal to sell us a small strip of land to the rear of our main stand.
Them renting an area of ground behind the Roseburn Stand to store equipment, despite being yards from their own depot and never being used.
Police escorts for Councillors to matches in Glasgow.
All those Council buildings in MacLeod Street, the Adult Learning Centre, the ticket office, etc that are used by Heartz, who paid for them?

They've bent over backwards to help them out and all the time looked to scupper any plans we make.
I wonder what our Boards view is on this and if they've compiled a list of all wrong doings.

We were in a mess financially and, to the detriment of the team, got ourselves out of it. They should have to do the same. However, they won't. They'll make a whole load of promises as they've been doing since Romanov arrived the "Joint Venture will start they'll fail to deliver and the Council will have no alternative but to see it through.

Ultimately, we'll pay for their new stadium.

[PapillonVert]

For the sake of argument, let's say this new stadium was to cost £40 million plus £500K annual running costs. As a result, the tenants would have to pay something like £2.5 million per annum in rent to cover the costs over 20-25 years.

The success of this development will be dependent on the yams divvying up this cash, or the development will become yet another white elephant. Anyone that understands these numbers, and the financial state of the yams, and still presses ahead with the development would be out of their tiny minds.

And with the Yams well-known and much-publicised predilection for avoiding payment of bills due, what guarantees would the council propose obtaining to ensure they meet the rent demands on time?

Normally, if a prospective tenant has a bad credit record, a sensible and responsible landlord declines to offer a lease! (Or makes them pay a premium for the lease to take account of the increased risk).

[Jack]

And with the Yams well-known and much-publicised predilection for avoiding payment of bills due, what guarantees would the council propose obtaining to ensure they meet the rent demands on time?Normally, if a prospective tenant has a bad credit record, a sensible and responsible landlord declines to offer a lease! (Or makes them pay a premium for the lease to take account of the increased risk).I'm sure they've already had payment issues with Herriot Watt, with what I suppose could be said to be a similar relationship to that proposed with the council.

[DC_Hibs]

And with the Yams well-known and much-publicised predilection for avoiding payment of bills due, what guarantees would the council propose obtaining to ensure they meet the rent demands on time?

Normally, if a prospective tenant has a bad credit record, a sensible and responsible landlord declines to offer a lease! (Or makes them pay a premium for the lease to take account of the increased risk).

Not to mention the fact that they are filthy perverts with a history of sex offending by both their employees and supporters.

Surely the council will be trying to sweep this rubbish out of Edinburgh for the safety of our women, children and hamsters?

[Hibs Class]

So the council paid £15,000 to tell us that Tynecastle wasn't fit for purpose.

Chris Robinson told us that several years ago and Mr Magoo wouldn't have had problems coming to that conclusion

Community stadiums have worked at Hull and Bolton, and so what? These are one club cities.

p.s just read that they wasted £4m on tenders for outsourcing the council refuse pick ups but now decided that they aren't changing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Council paid the full £30k and are now trying to recover a contribution from hearts.

[cocopops1875]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Council paid the full £30k and are now trying to recover a contribution from hearts.

That would actually do the job

[Stevie Reid]

I'm sure they've already had payment issues with Herriot Watt, with what I suppose could be said to be a similar relationship to that proposed with the council.

I did notice from footage on a report on STV News the other day that they were training on the pitch at Tynie. Maybe just a psychological thing mind...

[PatHead]

I did notice from footage on a report on STV News the other day that they were training on the pitch at Tynie. Maybe just a psychological thing mind...

Maybe Lacrosse team had training facility booked already

[silverhibee]

Has anyone submitted a FOI request on this yet or is that my job? :wink:


Your job. :greengrin

[Northernhibee]

For the sake of argument, let's say this new stadium was to cost £40 million plus £500K annual running costs. As a result, the tenants would have to pay something like £2.5 million per annum in rent to cover the costs over 20-25 years.The success of this development will be dependent on the yams divvying up this cash, or the development will become yet another white elephant. Anyone that understands these numbers, and the financial state of the yams, and still presses ahead with the development would be out of their tiny minds. Don't panic, but I agree.The yams go bust or wriggle their way out of it, millions of pounds wasted.Do the council not know about their debts and record of paying money owed?

[joebakerforever]

'Someone' might want to:

1. Formally ask the Council for a copy of the consultants report under the Freedom of Information Act.
2. Formallly ask the Council for a list of all meetings and minutes of meetings which have taken place within the council and between the council and its officials and external bodies regarding Heart of Midlothian Football club during the last three years under the Freedom of Information Act.
3. Formally write to the Auditor General for Scotland, Bob Black, asking for his view on the propriety of a proposal for City of Edinburgh Council to engage with HoMFC in developing a new stadium.
4. Formally write to City of Edinburgh Council's 'Council Solicitor' and also to its Chief Executive asking them to give their view on the propriety of any member of the Council with a declarable interest being party to any discussions on a proposed new stadium for HoMFC in partnership with the council and also as to whether any member with a declarable interest should in fact excuse themselves from all committees, votes and discussions pertaining to any such proposal.
5. Formally write to the Public Standards Commissioner for Scotland requesting that consideration be given as to whether appropriate conduct has taken place so far in this matter.


Just saying.

Don't take this the wrong way, but going by your obvious knowledge & expertise in such matters, is there any reason preventing you from raising these issues directly ?

[hibs0666]

Don't panic, but I agree.The yams go bust or wriggle their way out of it, millions of pounds wasted.Do the council not know about their debts and record of paying money owed?

I'm not in panic mode, but I did go faint. :wink:

[hibs0666]

Your job. :greengrin

I'm on the case. Some poor sod in the planning department who is given the job of digging this crap out is going to hate me. :wink:

[Northernhibee]

I'm not in panic mode, but I did go faint. :wink: I'm sure something similar happened with a baseball team in the states, they went bust and the City was left with a huge tax hike for an empty stadium that cost eight or nine figures.The Jambos cannae even pay their staff wages, this is another disaster waiting to happen.

[blackpoolhibs]

Another reply, and one i was not expecting.

Dear Mr Bremner,

I am extremely proud to live in a city with I think two family orientated football clubs. In times past there would have been no argument at all for one single outlet for the whole city but although I might not like saying so, times have changed and there are now many more leisure pursuits. As a result it may be that the only way we can provide top-quality facilities for all or most of the sports played in the city nowadays is to have the sort of stadiums that are used by Barcelona Football Club etc, which has, for example, track and field provision alongside that for the main sport.

Whether or not this is the sort of thing Councillor Cardownie had in mind, I just do not know but as a Hibs season ticket holder, on a purely personal basis, I think it very unlikely that Hibs would agree to leave Easter Road after all the redevelopment that has been done. I stress that that is a purely personal opinion.

I hope you are clearer where I might stand on a question such as the one you pose but I cannot be held responsible for the thoughts of Councillor Cardownie.

Yours sincerely,

Margo MacDonald MSP

Room MG.02
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
Direct: 0131 348 5714/24

[tamig]

I firmly believe that this will be pushed through and that the Heartz supporting Council will jump into bed with a foreign business man who has delivered nothing he has promised. Our local services will be cut to fund this joint venture which will be sold as benefit to the community. The club is so far in debt there is no other option, the Council bail them out or they cease to exist. That won't be allowed to happen.

Council bias has been evident over the years and something they've never really been challenged on.
The Butterfly site.
The refusal to sell us a small strip of land to the rear of our main stand.
Them renting an area of ground behind the Roseburn Stand to store equipment, despite being yards from their own depot and never being used.
Police escorts for Councillors to matches in Glasgow.
All those Council buildings in MacLeod Street, the Adult Learning Centre, the ticket office, etc that are used by Heartz, who paid for them?

They've bent over backwards to help them out and all the time looked to scupper any plans we make.
I wonder what our Boards view is on this and if they've compiled a list of all wrong doings.

We were in a mess financially and, to the detriment of the team, got ourselves out of it. They should have to do the same. However, they won't. They'll make a whole load of promises as they've been doing since Romanov arrived the "Joint Venture will start they'll fail to deliver and the Council will have no alternative but to see it through.

Ultimately, we'll pay for their new stadium.

There is no danger that this will happen as you fear. Don't worry.

[PaulSmith]

There is no danger that this will happen as you fear. Don't worry.

Tell me why you're so sure?

Why spend 15k on something that will never happen

[Barney McGrew]

Another reply, and one i was not expecting.

Dear Mr Bremner,

I am extremely proud to live in a city with I think two family orientated football clubs. In times past there would have been no argument at all for one single outlet for the whole city but although I might not like saying so, times have changed and there are now many more leisure pursuits. As a result it may be that the only way we can provide top-quality facilities for all or most of the sports played in the city nowadays is to have the sort of stadiums that are used by Barcelona Football Club etc, which has, for example, track and field provision alongside that for the main sport.

Whether or not this is the sort of thing Councillor Cardownie had in mind, I just do not know but as a Hibs season ticket holder, on a purely personal basis, I think it very unlikely that Hibs would agree to leave Easter Road after all the redevelopment that has been done. I stress that that is a purely personal opinion.

I hope you are clearer where I might stand on a question such as the one you pose but I cannot be held responsible for the thoughts of Councillor Cardownie.

Yours sincerely,

Margo MacDonald MSP

Room MG.02
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
Direct: 0131 348 5714/24

I got the exact same reply, word for word.

[The_Todd]

Tell me why you're so sure?

Why spend 15k on something that will never happen

Hearts spent £1m on a planning application for a new stand that will never happen.

[truehibernian]

Tell me why you're so sure?

Why spend 15k on something that will never happen

Paul, I can only speak from my experience, but when we applied for money from CEC (via Neighbourhood Partnerships), you had to have done or been in the process of completing a consultation process and evidence that it was a viable project. Prior to that, the CEC did give us money to fund a feasibility study (which cost just under £7000)........CEC funded the lot (as it was for a genuine community project, which again, we had to evidence). We were having to employ a local architect (with drawings) and professional consultant. But again, we had to proved that there was a need for such a study beforehand (which was discussed and agreed at local Neighbourhood Partnership level). You (and the public) can attend these NP meetings for your relevant area (and object).

At that stage, our project was just words and ideas, nothing tangible, but something we thought could improve youth provision. So in short, the council can and do provide funds for such things as surveys/reports (to establish a need). If our report had come back and said there wasn't a need, then I am sure we would have not received any further funding. But again, we could have (having been through the process) had the report 'guilding the lily' if we had really wanted to........we never, but I am sure some reports that will say what those involved want others to hear. That's where there needs to be transparency, committee stages, consultation, public debates and opportunities to object to plans/funding. We went through all these said stages with ours.

[johnrebus]

Another reply, and one i was not expecting.

Dear Mr Bremner,

I am extremely proud to live in a city with I think two family orientated football clubs. In times past there would have been no argument at all for one single outlet for the whole city but although I might not like saying so, times have changed and there are now many more leisure pursuits. As a result it may be that the only way we can provide top-quality facilities for all or most of the sports played in the city nowadays is to have the sort of stadiums that are used by Barcelona Football Club etc, which has, for example, track and field provision alongside that for the main sport.

Whether or not this is the sort of thing Councillor Cardownie had in mind, I just do not know but as a Hibs season ticket holder, on a purely personal basis, I think it very unlikely that Hibs would agree to leave Easter Road after all the redevelopment that has been done. I stress that that is a purely personal opinion.

I hope you are clearer where I might stand on a question such as the one you pose but I cannot be held responsible for the thoughts of Councillor Cardownie.

Yours sincerely,

Margo MacDonald MSP

Room MG.02
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
Direct: 0131 348 5714/24


I won't say a word against dear Margot, but I'm not convinced she has understood the point in question, or perhaps this reply was meant for someone else?

:coffee:

[johnrebus]

Another reply, and one i was not expecting.

Dear Mr Bremner,

I am extremely proud to live in a city with I think two family orientated football clubs. In times past there would have been no argument at all for one single outlet for the whole city but although I might not like saying so, times have changed and there are now many more leisure pursuits. As a result it may be that the only way we can provide top-quality facilities for all or most of the sports played in the city nowadays is to have the sort of stadiums that are used by Barcelona Football Club etc, which has, for example, track and field provision alongside that for the main sport.

Whether or not this is the sort of thing Councillor Cardownie had in mind, I just do not know but as a Hibs season ticket holder, on a purely personal basis, I think it very unlikely that Hibs would agree to leave Easter Road after all the redevelopment that has been done. I stress that that is a purely personal opinion.

I hope you are clearer where I might stand on a question such as the one you pose but I cannot be held responsible for the thoughts of Councillor Cardownie.

Yours sincerely,

Margo MacDonald MSP

Room MG.02
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
Direct: 0131 348 5714/24


I won't say a word against dear Margot, but I'm not convinced she has understood the point in question, or perhaps this reply was meant for someone else?

:coffee:

[Barney McGrew]

I won't say a word against dear Margot, but I'm not convinced she has understood the point in question, or perhaps this reply was meant for someone else?

:coffee:

It's obviously a stock reply that's gone out to anyone who's contacted her about it. It doesn't answer any of the questions I asked or points I raised either.

[grunt]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Council paid the full £30k and are now trying to recover a contribution from hearts.That would have been an enormously naive thing to do. So, probably just exactly what the Council would do!

[PaulSmith]

If you saw this statement from the Hibs Chief Exec and compared it to the recent events, what conclusion would you come to?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/hibern...uture-1.871253 (http://www.heraldscotland.com/hibernian-open-doors-to-future-1.871253)

East Lothian was not the first choice venue for Hibs training ground. The idea that the club should have their own training facilities was first mooted almost a decade ago, but various proposals all fell by the wayside.

Petrie explained: "We had a number of different projects, but for some reason they didn't happen. In 2005 we decided to take a different tact and acquire a facility of our own."
Farmer puts meat on the bones of Petrie's brief outline: "We tried over the years to do many things.

In the 1990s we talked to the council about Meadowbank Sports Centre and the ground around there. We put proposals to them to turn it into a tremendous sports facility for the city that we could all be proud of, but that never worked.

"Then we talked to the council about the Jack Kane Centre in Niddrie, to turn it into a community facility, but the council didn't want to do that either.

[jamesjamieson]

I'm on the case. Some poor sod in the planning department who is given the job of digging this crap out is going to hate me. :wink:

Well done for taking this on! :thumbsup: I look forward to seeing the reply...

[speedy_gonzales]

Reply from my councillor wh is a Hibby :wink:
<snip>
The position from yesterday is that this initial work will form the basis of a report containing recommendations on next steps and potential costs involved to the next committee .This meets on Tuesday 20th December. I hope this gives you some reassurance that despite recent press reports this is not a ' done deal'. Regards,

In recent years, the government were famous for burying bad news when something spectacular happened (Lady Di's Death, 9/11, 7/7), what we cannot do is to allow this committee to be forgotten about as we all wind down for Christmas!

[clerriehibs]

Paul Following the problems experienced with Hearts re-development plans for Tynecastle as a result of the stadium's proximity to the adjacent Distillery site/ spirit Bond which is part of a COMAH blast zone, our Economic Development Service agreed to co-finance a development options study to help better inform their future options.

The study was carried out by Property Agents GVA. They have recommended that a new build is the best route forward. They reference a number of developments in England and Wales where Community Stadia have been realised through partnerships between local authorities and Football Clubs - Hull and Swansea (who ground share with the Ospreys Rugby Union team) being two particular examples.

Although GVA highlight sites in public ownership that could potentially be used for a similar collaboration in Edinburgh no commitment has been made by Council Officers to any proposition.

Hearts have put their own statement out and the Evening News has clearly picked up on this. I share you view that the Council cannot provide free accommodation to any private business indeed EU state aid regulations would prevent us from doing so. Happy to have a brief word on the margins of tomorrow's Council meeting hopefully to ease any worries that you may have.

But why did the council agree to do co-anything with Hearts? There's more to this than some bland denials from a councillor who probably isn't part of what's going on behind the scenes?

[Liberal Hibby]

I firmly believe that this will be pushed through and that the Heartz supporting Council will jump into bed with a foreign business man who has delivered nothing he has promised. Our local services will be cut to fund this joint venture which will be sold as benefit to the community. The club is so far in debt there is no other option, the Council bail them out or they cease to exist. That won't be allowed to happen.

Council bias has been evident over the years and something they've never really been challenged on.
The Butterfly site.
The refusal to sell us a small strip of land to the rear of our main stand.
Them renting an area of ground behind the Roseburn Stand to store equipment, despite being yards from their own depot and never being used.
Police escorts for Councillors to matches in Glasgow.
All those Council buildings in MacLeod Street, the Adult Learning Centre, the ticket office, etc that are used by Heartz, who paid for them?

They've bent over backwards to help them out and all the time looked to scupper any plans we make.
I wonder what our Boards view is on this and if they've compiled a list of all wrong doings.

We were in a mess financially and, to the detriment of the team, got ourselves out of it. They should have to do the same. However, they won't. They'll make a whole load of promises as they've been doing since Romanov arrived the "Joint Venture will start they'll fail to deliver and the Council will have no alternative but to see it through.

Ultimately, we'll pay for their new stadium.


I think with the possible exception of Mr Cardownie the current council is a lot less 'Hearts minded' than previous ones. And from what I know there is a large degree of scepticism about any claims emanating from Romanov towers.

There are no white knights coming to the rescue of Hearts - especially not the council.

[clerriehibs]

I think with the possible exception of Mr Cardownie the current council is a lot less 'Hearts minded' than previous ones. And from what I know there is a large degree of scepticism about any claims emanating from Romanov towers.

There are no white knights coming to the rescue of Hearts - especially not the council.

£15k, but probably £30k pending hearts paying their share, is expensive scepticism.

This is going to happen, make no mistake.

[Kato]

If you saw this statement from the Hibs Chief Exec and compared it to the recent events, what conclusion would you come to?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/hibern...uture-1.871253 (http://www.heraldscotland.com/hibernian-open-doors-to-future-1.871253)

East Lothian was not the first choice venue for Hibs training ground. The idea that the club should have their own training facilities was first mooted almost a decade ago, but various proposals all fell by the wayside.

Petrie explained: "We had a number of different projects, but for some reason they didn't happen. In 2005 we decided to take a different tact and acquire a facility of our own."
Farmer puts meat on the bones of Petrie's brief outline: "We tried over the years to do many things.

In the 1990s we talked to the council about Meadowbank Sports Centre and the ground around there. We put proposals to them to turn it into a tremendous sports facility for the city that we could all be proud of, but that never worked.

"Then we talked to the council about the Jack Kane Centre in Niddrie, to turn it into a community facility, but the council didn't want to do that either.


That the council are all Hertz *****?

I remember that piece in the Herald. I was brought up in Niddrie (about 200 hundred yards from God's mother's house) and remember well watching Hibs train at Hunter's Hall in the 1970's before the Jack Kane Centre was even built. It made total sense for Hibs to develop the land up there as a training centre and would have been a big boost to the Jack Kane Centre itself.

I find this council (any Edinburgh Council) disgusting in the way they have treated my club.

Hearts barstewards.

Does anyone remember the american geezer that took up the post of Chief Executive with the council in the 1990's. His name escapes me but the EC head-hunted him from the same job in Manchester. Anyways he only lasted a few months in the job and it was big headlines in the EEN when he quit to go back to NYC. I knew a guy who played basketball with him of a Friday evening and he played his last game with those guys as the headlines were hitting that he'd left. On being asked why he had quit he replied "I'm sick of decisions being made depending on which religion you are or which football team you suppport".

Hertz ********.

[drifter533814]

Definitely going to stop paying my council tax now. Trams were one thing, but anyone could have told the council that *********** was unsafe and a hellhole.
30 grand, thats a joke, just ask any hibs fan that left at half time during the hibs st johnstone cup game there!!!!!!!

[jdships]

If this is the case, then why is that arse Cardownie giving the whole thing some credence?

:confused:

Simple
Because he is an arse :greengrin

[DaveF]

That the council are all Hertz *****?

I remember that piece in the Herald. I was brought up in Niddrie (about 200 hundred yards from God's mother's house) and remember well watching Hibs train at Hunter's Hall in the 1970's before the Jack Kane Centre was even built. It made total sense for Hibs to develop the land up there as a training centre and would have been a big boost to the Jack Kane Centre itself.

I find this council (any Edinburgh Council) disgusting in the way they have treated my club.

Hearts barstewards.

Does anyone remember the american geezer that took up the post of Chief Executive with the council in the 1990's. His name escapes me but the EC head-hunted him from the same job in Manchester. Anyways he only lasted a few months in the job and it was big headlines in the EEN when he quit to go back to NYC. I knew a guy who played basketball with him of a Friday evening and he played his last game with those guys as the headlines were hitting that he'd left. On being asked why he had quit he replied "I'm sick of decisions being made depending on which religion you are or which football team you suppport".

Hertz ********.

Paul Lowenberg was his name. I used to work for EDC at the time he was there but as you say, he didn't last long.

[PaulSmith]

Paul Lowenberg was his name. I used to work for EDC at the time he was there but as you say, he didn't last long.

Maybe a journ reading this may want to contact him and ask for some quotes

[bighairyfaeleith]

I've contacted my snp councillor and stated quite clearly, but politely, that if the SNP support this they will lose mine and many other votes in Edinburgh. I will shortly be emailing several SNP msp's as well, the impact of this shouldn't just be felt by the council given salmond is also a jambo cant!!

**** knows who else I would vote for but I'm really not happy about this plan. Time for cardownie to get hunted out of politics for good.

Edit - Also submitted a FOI request to ECC to get the consultants report.

[Kato]

Edit - Also submitted a FOI request to ECC to get the consultants report.



It's been "sexed up", innit. "Hearts suffocating at Tynecastle" sounds like it came straight from the pen of His Vladness himself.

[Capt Mainwaring]

I've contacted my snp councillor and stated quite clearly, but politely, that if the SNP support this they will lose mine and many other votes in Edinburgh. I will shortly be emailing several SNP msp's as well, the impact of this shouldn't just be felt by the council given salmond is also a jambo cant!!

**** knows who else I would vote for but I'm really not happy about this plan. Time for cardownie to get hunted out of politics for good.

Edit - Also submitted a FOI request to ECC to get the consultants report.

Good shout.

I've sent a similar E Mail to my Councillor. Primarily as a concerned Council tax payer
who is already cheesed off at the way the CEC has squandered public funds ( as well as requiring a
Scottish Government bail out!)with the Trams debacle, but who views in disbelief that certain
Councillors, with clear conflicts of interest, are pushing for more public funds and assets to bail out
the mis-administration of a bankrupt Hearts.

I've asked for a clear assurance that he will not support this proposal outlining that my vote hinges on his stance.

I urge all CEC tax payers to do likewise.

[Spike Mandela]

**** knows who else I would vote for ....



vote GREEN of course:greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

vote GREEN of course:greengrin

:greengrin

[One Day Soon]

I've contacted my snp councillor and stated quite clearly, but politely, that if the SNP support this they will lose mine and many other votes in Edinburgh. I will shortly be emailing several SNP msp's as well, the impact of this shouldn't just be felt by the council given salmond is also a jambo cant!!

**** knows who else I would vote for but I'm really not happy about this plan. Time for cardownie to get hunted out of politics for good.

Edit - Also submitted a FOI request to ECC to get the consultants report.


Putting party allegiances aside for the moment you should really email all of your councillors. You will have councillors from at least two and more probably three or even four parties in your area. They will all want to be all over this if they think it may become an issue affecting votes, particularly with next year's council elections coming up.

The Nats are desperate to win Glasgow and become coalition leaders in Edinburgh in next May's elections. Anything that looks like causing a problem for that will be pretty ruthlessly dealt with - and that includes Cardownie. So I suggest that you and others consider writing to the First Minister on this because a) the SNP is centrally run and internally his word is law and b) he is a Yam and therefore it would be helpful to get his view as FM on the record.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Putting party allegiances aside for the moment you should really email all of your councillors. You will have councillors from at least two and more probably three or even four parties in your area. They will all want to be all over this if they think it may become an issue affecting votes, particularly with next year's council elections coming up.

The Nats are desperate to win Glasgow and become coalition leaders in Edinburgh in next May's elections. Anything that looks like causing a problem for that will be pretty ruthlessly dealt with - and that includes Cardownie. So I suggest that you and others consider writing to the First Minister on this because a) the SNP is centrally run and internally his word is law and b) he is a Yam and therefore it would be helpful to get his view as FM on the record.

I think your right, leith walk ward has four councillors I think across all the main parties so will send similar email to them as well

[Hibs07p]

One of our own, Brian Monteith has a bit in tonights Evening news.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/cartoon/brian_monteith_why_should_we_bail_out_hearts_1_193 6042

GGTTH

[Barney McGrew]

One of our own, Brian Monteith has a bit in tonights Evening news.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/cartoon/brian_monteith_why_should_we_bail_out_hearts_1_193 6042

GGTTH

Quite right he is too :agree:

That's an excellent piece of writing.

[fiolex1]

I was just thinking, would the council offer to buy Easter Road for £20 million then lease it back to us, I don't think so.

[CabbageBoy]

OK, I emailed my 4 councillors on Wednesday morning, and have had replies so far from two. I have permission from one to share his response (the other hasnt answered that question yet).

My email

"Paul, Alison, Marilyne, Mark


I am writing too you as my councillors in reference to the report in today's Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/hearts_look_to_move_as_report_brands_tynecastle_re development_unviable_1_1929586) concerning potential Council support for a new stadium for Hearts in the West of the city. I write in a personal capacity but I am a member of the Edinburgh Children's Panel and the Panel Representative on the Child Protection Committee so I am aware of the pressures on budgets within Chidlren and Families, as well as the wider Council.


I would have deep concerns about council support for this project at a time when the Council is struggling to maintain budgets. In addition it would appear that there is some wish to build upon exisitng green space in Sighthill park, a considerable resource to the west of the city. Supporting a private company, financed by a foreign banker, to profit from Council support at a time when it is overspending its income by £10m a year, cannot afford to pay its employees, and when the Council have not been seen to be even handed to the other teams in the city, cannot be defended, and I would hope that the Council come out and say that formally now. The sight of Mr Cardownie in the Evening News in his Hearts scarf illustrates the extent to which councillors could be accused of playing team politics in an election year, but would also presumably raise the potential for councillors to be surcharged for abusing their positions to support their interests.


Of course, this could all be mischief making by the Johnstone Press, and not for the first time, but it would be good to see the Council's position on this set out clearly."

And the response from Paul Godzik

"I very much agree with your sentiments. A community stadium, for primarily community use, would be a laudable aim, but should be discussed in the context of the Council's political priorities and available budget.

The whole way this issue has been handled by the SNP/Lib Dem Administration has been amateurish. At the moment the issue is driven by speculation, with an impression that some sort of deal has been done behind closed doors, and that is unacceptable.

As you are aware I took the opportunity to highlight this issue at the recent Council meeting, raising it with the Council Leader, Cllr Jenny Dawe and her Deputy, Cllr Steve Cardowine. Cllr Dawe's response was that the current SNP/Lib Dem Administration were "less biased" than previous regimes. I believe Cllr Dawe’s comments were at best unhelpful, and far from taking the opportunity to show some leadership and make a clear statement on the matter I am not sure if she is making an accusation or accepting that some sort of bias does exist.

For the record, in in the few years I have been a member of the Council I have met a number of very committed football fans, of various colours, and engaged in some rigorous debate on the subject, but I have never detected any bias or improper conduct. I know passions run high when it comes to football (at time bordering on irrationality!) but frankly the council has to be seen to act in a neutral way and any accusation of bias, perceived or otherwise, is deeply damaging. I hope the Lib Dem/SNP Council leadership will take far greater care of how they communicate on this issue in the future.

Regards,

Paul

Cllr Paul Godzik"

Wow, is all I can say to that.

[PaulSmith]

An admission from the leader of Edinburgh Council at a formal meeting that they have been in the past bias towards Hearts.

Again any national newspaper reading this must be rubbing their hands with glee what is coming out here.

If Hearts bias is the conduit that forces out these parasites which have plagued this great city for more than a decade then all the better. They should've been sacked en masse after the trams.

[Bishop Hibee]

One of our own, Brian Monteith has a bit in tonights Evening news.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/cartoon/brian_monteith_why_should_we_bail_out_hearts_1_193 6042

GGTTH

I'm agreeing with Brian Monteith :dizzy: Thankfully the drivel in the next part of his column put the world back on its axis.

[tamig]

OK, I emailed my 4 councillors on Wednesday morning, and have had replies so far from two. I have permission from one to share his response (the other hasnt answered that question yet).

My email

"Paul, Alison, Marilyne, Mark


I am writing too you as my councillors in reference to the report in today's Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/hearts_look_to_move_as_report_brands_tynecastle_re development_unviable_1_1929586) concerning potential Council support for a new stadium for Hearts in the West of the city. I write in a personal capacity but I am a member of the Edinburgh Children's Panel and the Panel Representative on the Child Protection Committee so I am aware of the pressures on budgets within Chidlren and Families, as well as the wider Council.


I would have deep concerns about council support for this project at a time when the Council is struggling to maintain budgets. In addition it would appear that there is some wish to build upon exisitng green space in Sighthill park, a considerable resource to the west of the city. Supporting a private company, financed by a foreign banker, to profit from Council support at a time when it is overspending its income by £10m a year, cannot afford to pay its employees, and when the Council have not been seen to be even handed to the other teams in the city, cannot be defended, and I would hope that the Council come out and say that formally now. The sight of Mr Cardownie in the Evening News in his Hearts scarf illustrates the extent to which councillors could be accused of playing team politics in an election year, but would also presumably raise the potential for councillors to be surcharged for abusing their positions to support their interests.


Of course, this could all be mischief making by the Johnstone Press, and not for the first time, but it would be good to see the Council's position on this set out clearly."

And the response from Paul Godzik

"I very much agree with your sentiments. A community stadium, for primarily community use, would be a laudable aim, but should be discussed in the context of the Council's political priorities and available budget.

The whole way this issue has been handled by the SNP/Lib Dem Administration has been amateurish. At the moment the issue is driven by speculation, with an impression that some sort of deal has been done behind closed doors, and that is unacceptable.

As you are aware I took the opportunity to highlight this issue at the recent Council meeting, raising it with the Council Leader, Cllr Jenny Dawe and her Deputy, Cllr Steve Cardowine. Cllr Dawe's response was that the current SNP/Lib Dem Administration were "less biased" than previous regimes. I believe Cllr Dawe’s comments were at best unhelpful, and far from taking the opportunity to show some leadership and make a clear statement on the matter I am not sure if she is making an accusation or accepting that some sort of bias does exist.

For the record, in in the few years I have been a member of the Council I have met a number of very committed football fans, of various colours, and engaged in some rigorous debate on the subject, but I have never detected any bias or improper conduct. I know passions run high when it comes to football (at time bordering on irrationality!) but frankly the council has to be seen to act in a neutral way and any accusation of bias, perceived or otherwise, is deeply damaging. I hope the Lib Dem/SNP Council leadership will take far greater care of how they communicate on this issue in the future.

Regards,

Paul

Cllr Paul Godzik"

Wow, is all I can say to that.

A very good response but what an insight into the way that woman Dawe acts in the chamber. Perfect opportunity to set the record straight but she only ends up digging the hole a bit deeper. It beggars belief. She is a clown of a woman.

[Iggy Pope]

Anyone in the Craigentinny / Duddingston area (part of our own!) could do worse than pester their councillor, Stefan Tymkewycz, a good Hibby as he is.

[Kato]

If they are trying to redress a bias (she said it) they have to say no to Hearts proposal to even up all the times they said no to us (and counting) and yes to them.

[clerriehibs]

If they are trying to redress a bias (she said it) they have to say no to Hearts proposal to even up all the times they said no to us (and counting) and yes to them.

she's a ****bo - says so here (http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/mfwhoswho/individuals/D_mfwwi/jennifer_dawe.html) - perhaps, probably, in her perverse world, she sees the bias in previous administrations as being "even more against" hearts and in favour of Hibs? God knows on what evidence, but they all generally think the world is against them :rolleyes: ... although that is quite possibly a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/6/jenny_dawe


O (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/6/jenny_dawe)MFG :shocked: i'm getting horrible HORRIBLE images of her and cardownie havin snoggin sessions under the cooncil debating table, naked and covering any 'bits' with two horrible dark pinkish yamboid scarfes(well actually...it would probably take two DOZEN scarfs( :sick: HELP !!!! either one of them would easily plug that gaping big hole in the asbestos arena's main bus shelter






i feel dirty now :boo hoo: please make these images go away

[soupy]

Looks mare like a Jeremy than a Jenny, the fat Gorgie slag that she is...:-)

[cabbageandribs1875]

bet the two of them are good baters

[Hainan Hibs]

What annoys me is the smugness we get from Cardowie and Dawe. It's not just a simple Hearts getting a stadium and us no, it's the issue of how the **** they can even contemplate building this stadium when families around Edinburgh are feeling the squeeze due to budget cuts here there and everywhere.

[Barney McGrew]

An admission from the leader of Edinburgh Council at a formal meeting that they have been in the past bias towards Hearts.

Again any national newspaper reading this must be rubbing their hands with glee what is coming out here

That meeting will be minuted and available for us to see I would have thought (and if not an FoI request should provide it)

Dawe should be picked up on exactly what she meant by that. It's either an admission that there is a bias, albeit not as much as previously, or that there used to be a bias that she is fully aware of.

Either way, for the leader of the council to state that shows the outrageous disregard for correct procedure that there is/was in Edinburgh.

[Springbank]

I'm writing to my local Councillor to ask just exactly why are the Council not using Council Tax payers money to pay hearts players at the moment?

This follows on from this week's jointly commissioned report, between Hearts and the Council, where the Local Authority in Edinburgh made it clear that they don't consider the lack of current audited accounts (or a sustainable business plan) to be important factors when deciding to jump headlong into bed with a local company.

I think it is appalling that the Council can just sit back while their future tenants go unpaid. It's inhumane. Also, given the number of East Europeans on Hearts' payroll, it may well be racist, though I'm not sure on that last point (I'm gleaning that information from the comments threads in the local rag, to be honest)

So, dear Elected Members, just when are you going to step up to the plate and do the decent thing, and PAY IAN BLACK (so that he can, in turn, pay his latest club fine for being sent off)

Yours, in true open letter style, etc etc

[clerriehibs]

Anyone still thinking this isn't going to happen?

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/what_next_for_capital_s_vision_of_a_new_stadium_1_ 1937831

E (http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/what_next_for_capital_s_vision_of_a_new_stadium_1_ 1937831)vening News runs a positive (from a ****bo perspective) every night. No chance of balanced reporting from that rag.

Community stadium ... without a running track for athletics? Hardly a community stadium. In fact, all the so-called city luminaries want it to be just like the current swyney, even to the extent of making sure there's "socialising" facilities.

If anyone's asking why, it's not given much prominence.

[PaulSmith]

Anyone still thinking this isn't going to happen?

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/what_next_for_capital_s_vision_of_a_new_stadium_1_ 1937831

E (http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/what_next_for_capital_s_vision_of_a_new_stadium_1_ 1937831)vening News runs a positive (from a ****bo perspective) every night. No chance of balanced reporting from that rag.

Community stadium ... without a running track for athletics? Hardly a community stadium. In fact, all the so-called city luminaries want it to be just like the current swyney, even to the extent of making sure there's "socialising" facilities.

If anyone's asking why, it's not given much prominence.

Some of the quotes there are cringeworthy but not surprising. Edinburgh needs a community stadium, the question should be does it need another as we already have a fully equipped modern stadia in the city.

[lucky]

It's not surprising that keen yams are backing this project. I actually think the council should be involved in this community stadium are the way forward but no way can any elected official justify tax payers paying in to this project at this time. ECC are forcing through cuts and redundencies. They are even talking about privatising refuge collection. This is not the time for the city to be involved in paying for a new stadium.

[southern hibby]

I'm on the case. Some poor sod in the planning department who is given the job of digging this crap out is going to hate me. :wink:


Lets hope he/she is a Yam Fud. Piss them right of. GGTTH

[Kato]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/what_next_for_capital_s_vision_of_a_new_stadium_1_ 1937831

E (http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/what_next_for_capital_s_vision_of_a_new_stadium_1_ 1937831)


Ha Ha - that clown is sticking his rubber napper above the parapet. Has anyone ever taken him seriously?

[Baader]

This is getting ridiculous. Are these people intentionally taking the p***?

A 'community stadium' "to encourage people to participate in sport...not just make it exclusive to the football and rugby clubs.” Yet "a running track around the pitch is an absolute no-no.”

****wit Cardownie referring to Hearts as we:
"If we went any further than that, we risk being away from the community and fans drifting away.” No conflict of interest there then...

Someone needs to shoot these freeloading conmen clowns down pronto.

[Kato]

Cllr Dawe's response was that the current SNP/Lib Dem Administration were "less biased" than previous regimes.

It really is an astonishing gaff. Is this minuted? A decent newspaper would all over this. Rules out the scotsman titles.

[Liberal Hibby]

Cllr Dawe's response was that the current SNP/Lib Dem Administration were "less biased" than previous regimes.

It really is an astonishing gaff. Is this minuted? A decent newspaper would all over this. Rules out the scotsman titles.

I'm not sure the truth can really be called a 'gaffe'. It's clear that apart from the slaverings of Cardownie the systematic biases in favour of Hearts among officers have been addressed.

If the 'Butterfly project' came up today - I'm convinced the outcome would be different.

Given the march of the SNP and the likelihood that they will take either overall control or be the largest party - it leaves an interesting question for Edinburgh based Hibees. You might hate the current administration and Jenny Dawe, but do you really want to put Cardownie in charge instead? Or can you trust the old guard that allowed a systematic bias against Hibs to develop in the City Chambers not to do it again?

Maybe it's time for Hibs party - like Charlton and Brentford fans did?

[Forza Fred]

No doubt the whole process will be as well managed as the trams :wink:

[Kato]

I'm not sure the truth can really be called a 'gaffe'. It's clear that apart from the slaverings of Cardownie the systematic biases in favour of Hearts among officers have been addressed.

Addressed where? I've never seen any addressing, or any redressing for that matter. what does she mean by 'less bias" - that there is still bias only not as much?



If the 'Butterfly project' came up today - I'm convinced the outcome would be different.

Not really much kop is it?

How's about if an application from Hibs for a Sunday License came up today how'd that outcome be different?


Given the march of the SNP and the likelihood that they will take either overall control or be the largest party - it leaves an interesting question for Edinburgh based Hibees. You might hate the current administration and Jenny Dawe, but do you really want to put Cardownie in charge instead? Or can you trust the old guard that allowed a systematic bias against Hibs to develop in the City Chambers not to do it again?

I don't hate the current administration. I view them as I've viewed all the administrations in my 50 years living in Edinburgh. A mixture of curtain-twitchers and sticky pawed chancers. Laughable.


Maybe it's time for Hibs party - like Charlton and Brentford fans did?


I might even vote for them.

[Liberal Hibby]

Addressed where? I've never seen any addressing, or any redressing for that matter. what does she mean by 'less bias" - that there is still bias only not as much?


Not really much kop is it?

How's about if an application from Hibs for a Sunday License came up today how'd that outcome be different?


Yes - the council is clearly still biased towards Hearts - but you might argue the city is as there are (slightly) more Hearts fans than Hibs fans. The point being having one lot running the city for more than a quarter of century allows a whole load of sloppy ways of working to get ingrained - and if it involves staff in positions of influence with axes to grind then it is unlikely to be dealt with if they are the mates of the politicians. And the planning department is one of those where relationships between politicians and officers are notoriously close for comfort. So a new lot (of almost any colour) shakes up the cosy arrangements. And I guess that is the kind of point Jenny Dawe was trying to make.

I don't know about the Sunday licence issue - but I find it hard to believe ER is dry for Sunday games - as it is in effect a private members' club. And if the council has deliberately and unfairly treated one aplicant differently to another then it will lose an appeal (plus pay they appelants costs) - so there has to be some legal grounds for the decision - or most usually some sort of negotiation over the fine details.

If you let me know the details I'm happy to make enquiries as it were.

[BEEJ]

Hear, hear! :coolhib:

Where do I sign? :coffee:

[Caversham Green]

I'll probably need several tin hats for this one, but here goes:

In view of the astounding discovery that Tynecastle is not fit for purpose, and the keenness of certain councillors to waste taxpayers' money on a new white eleph...... er stadium for the Yams I believe the Hibs board should be pointing out that Edinburgh already has a modern UEFA-compliant stadium with more than sufficient capacity to meet the needs of both its senior clubs. In other words I think they should be offering to rent ER to HoMFC as an alternative to their ludicrous 'community stadium' plans and I would like the point to be discussed at the forthcoming AGM if some kind shareholder would care to raise the question.

A Groundshare would raise considerable extra funds for Hibs (assuming the Yams actually pay their bills), help HoMFC out of their hole and free up funds for the council to waste elsewhere. The cons are mostly emotional, but there would also be concern about the nick of the pitch with all the Yams' hammers landing on it. That could possibly be alleviated by a semi-synthetic surface, for which Homfc could be asked to cotribute part of the capital cost. Also, I suspect 'Mr Romanov' would find the proposal unacceptable on account of his ego, but that may not be a problem for much longer.

I can't say the prospect fills me with enthusiasm, but maybe football needs to move with the times.


Your thoughts please.

[Lofarl]

Under no circumstances should that lot ever call ER home. Tynecaslte is fit for purpose. Ok their ranking little wooden shed might well be on its last legs. But why not just close the stand down? They can have 3 stands for all I care. Sure it might mean a slight drop in income but that's a price I am willing to pay :greengrin

[s.a.m]

I've said yes! I like the idea of Hearts having to pay us rent to be allowed to ply their trade.

[Bishop Hibee]

I'll probably need several tin hats for this one, but here goes:

In view of the astounding discovery that Tynecastle is not fit for purpose, and the keenness of certain councillors to waste taxpayers' money on a new white eleph...... er stadium for the Yams I believe the Hibs board should be pointing out that Edinburgh already has a modern UEFA-compliant stadium with more than sufficient capacity to meet the needs of both its senior clubs. In other words I think they should be offering to rent ER to HoMFC as an alternative to their ludicrous 'community stadium' plans and I would like the point to be discussed at the forthcoming AGM if some kind shareholder would care to raise the question.

A Groundshare would raise considerable extra funds for Hibs (assuming the Yams actually pay their bills), help HoMFC out of their hole and free up funds for the council to waste elsewhere. The cons are mostly emotional, but there would also be concern about the nick of the pitch with all the Yams' hammers landing on it. That could possibly be alleviated by a semi-synthetic surface, for which Homfc could be asked to cotribute part of the capital cost. Also, I suspect 'Mr Romanov' would find the proposal unacceptable on account of his ego, but that may not be a problem for much longer.

I can't say the prospect fills me with enthusiasm, but maybe football needs to move with the times.


Your thoughts please.

Let them sort out there problems themselves. They tried to destroy us in 1990, let them self-destruct.

While there are many jambos on the council who would like to help them, I think it would be political suicide to put the case for a publicly funded stadium at the moment. The moment any more than the 15K of public money already spent regarding a new stadium is talked about being committed, every non- hertz biased tax payer should bombard their elected politicians against a stadium.

[Jack]

If it's possible to be totally dispassionate about this the solution would be for the incompetent council to buy Easter Road lock stock and barrel. How much would that save in overspends and delays for a start?

Used exclusively for football the incompetent council would then rent out the stadium to both clubs. This would mean any hearts shenanigans around payments being their responsibility.

[Kaiser1962]

That we have invested in the basics that will enable us to fulfill our primary role as a football club, to the detriment of the playing side, while they have lavished money in the pursuit of success whilst ignoring their responsibilities and allowing their property to fall into disrepair means I have no sympathy for them, or the position they find themselves in, whatsoever.

I would, however, consider allowing them to rent ER for the fulfilment of their fixtures but this would be very much on Hibs terms with Hibs very much the senior partners in any deal. The seats would remain green and they pay for any damage they cause.

This agreement would not extend to the use of East Mains and all our fixtures would take priority.

[mixuok]

Under no circumstances should that lot ever call ER home. Tynecaslte is fit for purpose. Ok their ranking little wooden shed might well be on its last legs. But why not just close the stand down? They can have 3 stands for all I care. Sure it might mean a slight drop in income but that's a price I am willing to pay :greengrin im with you on this one. **** them :thumbsup:

[nonshinyfinish]

That we have invested in the basics that will enable us to fulfill our primary role as a football club, to the detriment of the playing side, while they have lavished money in the pursuit of success whilst ignoring their responsibilities and allowing their property to fall into disrepair means I have no sympathy for them, or the position they find themselves in, whatsoever.

I would, however, consider allowing them to rent ER for the fulfilment of their fixtures but this would be very much on Hibs terms with Hibs very much the senior partners in any deal. The seats would remain green and they pay for any damage they cause.

This agreement would not extend to the use of East Mains and all our fixtures would take priority.

Agree with that, although I'd add that the rent would be exorbitant. :wink:

[Baader]

No way. Would run a marathon before entering into some sort of deal with that bunch. You'd get burned for sure. Not to be trusted.

[Caversham Green]

That we have invested in the basics that will enable us to fulfill our primary role as a football club, to the detriment of the playing side, while they have lavished money in the pursuit of success whilst ignoring their responsibilities and allowing their property to fall into disrepair means I have no sympathy for them, or the position they find themselves in, whatsoever.

I would, however, consider allowing them to rent ER for the fulfilment of their fixtures but this would be very much on Hibs terms with Hibs very much the senior partners in any deal. The seats would remain green and they pay for any damage they cause.

This agreement would not extend to the use of East Mains and all our fixtures would take priority.

That goes without saying (or it did until you said it :greengrin). They still have their share of Riccarton, and because they contributed towards the capital cost the rent there is cheaper than East Mains would be.


No way. Would run a marathon before entering into some sort of deal with that bunch. You'd get burned for sure. Not to be trusted.

There's nothing to burn us though - they don't pay, they don't play - and it's not like there's any extra cost for Hibs.

[connerg]

I've said yes! I like the idea of Hearts having to pay us rent to be allowed to ply their trade.

How much do you think we should charge? Then again could we trust mad vlad to pay and to pay on time?

[HibbyDave]

I'm all for it.



Provided the council can gaurantee to complete the trams lines and extend them to ER so that fans can attend etc.









Oh yes, the trams have to be in place FIRST (and by XMAS 2011).

[Caversham Green]

How much do you think we should charge? Then again could we trust mad vlad to pay and to pay on time?

ER's current use value is £18.5m and 8% is generally thought to be a good ROI for commercial rentals, so by my reckoning that's around £5m in rent.












:wink:

[The_Famous_HFC]

I think groundsharing in a neutral venue (This new community stadium?) Would be financially a wise move for both clubs.

[greenginger]

Most certainly YES YES YES !!!

Make all the right noises , make them feel most welcome until the concept of Council money to accomadate their needs becomes absolutely unsupportable and the scheme and its supporters dead and buried.

Then let the Devil be in detail of any lease to allow Yam soiling of Easter Road. :wink:

[iwasthere1972]

No way. What happens when they are the "home" team at Easter Road and how would that affect season ticket holders? Would we just have the South Stand?

I think they would be against it every bit as much as we would be.

[hibs0666]

I think groundsharing in a neutral venue (This new community stadium?) Would be financially a wise move for both clubs.

That's an impossible thing to say just now since the finances of a new sports complex are totally unknown.

Intead, as mentioned above, Hibs should be very supportive of ground sharing at Easter Road so that the yams becomes our bitches errr tenants. :wink:

[Caversham Green]

I think groundsharing in a neutral venue (This new community stadium?) Would be financially a wise move for both clubs.

The problem with that is that it means demolishing a first class ground (ER) and building another, probably inferior one - waste of everyone's money rather than just the council's.

Most certainly YES YES YES !!!

Make all the right noises , make them feel most welcome until the concept of Council money to accomadate their needs becomes absolutely unsupportable and the scheme and its supporters dead and buried.

Then let the Devil be in detail of any lease to allow Yam soiling of Easter Road. :wink:

:agree: I doubt if it would ever happen because of 'Mr Romanov's' ego, but I reckon it should be put up as an option and considered before the council start trying to bail them out.

[Dashing Bob S]

I'd welcome them sharing our ground as our tenants. I'd charge an 'economic' rent and increase it savagely every year.

[s.a.m]

How much do you think we should charge? Then again could we trust mad vlad to pay and to pay on time?


I'd welcome them sharing our ground as our tenants. I'd charge an 'economic' rent and increase it savagely every year.

There's you answer. Lure them, then find excuses to fleece them.:greengrin

[Mikeystewart]

Yes if they paid us a significant amount of rent.

[Kaiser1962]

The problem with that is that it means demolishing a first class ground (ER) and building another, probably inferior one - waste of everyone's money rather than just the council's.

I do think we should at least show that we are willing to enter dialogue about the issue. To dismiss it out of hand would merely be providing justification for EDC to help the Yams.

By appearing to co-operate we would close of that particular avenue of funding.

[greenginger]

Been checking the Council List for notes of interests of Councilors. Two are members of HOMFC Supporters Trust. Cardownie we all knew about but Ricky Henderson is a member too. ( better keep an eye on him ).

Stefan Tymkewycz is noted as a Hibs Season Ticket holder , may'be a source for inside Info.

[greenlex]

£100k cash upfront per month
We keep catering profits
They pay for match running costs
They pay for any damage.

NO PAY NO PLAY

On that basis and nothing less Im in.

[sidjames]

It is a dog eared dump. It was thrown up on the cheap and as we know never finished. I find it depressing and can see no redeeming features at all. It seems to verge on the desperate side of tacky with the lurid attempts to advertise its presence externally. There is nothing but hollow shells, windswept alleys, faded paint and general neglect. I was there in January last and was actually surprised at how shabby the place was. In fact a few days later I went to have another look. I managed to walk straight in at the home stand! It actually looks bleaker and more neglected when empty.

Wait a minute where's my share of the fee? 30,000 wow that's the way those that can have. Outrageous!

[iwasthere1972]

Why waste so many words when Youtube can say it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=024UcB1m7Do

[francobaresi]

£100k cash upfront per month
We keep catering profits
They pay for match running costs
They pay for any damage.

NO PAY NO PLAY

On that basis and nothing less Im in.

I've said no but happy for anyone to use ER as a home venue if the above or similar applies... In which case it would only be on a temporary basis as no real yam would put up with it for long... And how interesting would it be for us travelling to ER for an away game...:thumbsup:

[francobaresi]

No way. What happens when they are the "home" team at Easter Road and how would that affect season ticket holders? Would we just have the South Stand?

I think they would be against it every bit as much as we would be.

Treat it as an away game as it would be and get the whole South stand... No issue there in my opinion...

[Baader]

There's nothing to burn us though - they don't pay, they don't play - and it's not like there's any extra cost for Hibs.

That club is rotten to the core. Wouldn't want Vlad and his cronies anywhere near ER. Two visits a season is enough. No depths that lot would stoop to could surprise me.

It's like Aesop's fable of the Farmer and the Snake. The Yams are corrupt by their very nature now. Let's keep their numerous baggage and dirty laundry away from this side of the city.

[Caversham Green]

That club is rotten to the core. Wouldn't want Vlad and his cronies anywhere near ER. Two visits a season is enough. No depths that lot would stoop to could surprise me.

It's like Aesop's fable of the Farmer and the Snake. The Yams are corrupt by their very nature now. Let's keep their numerous baggage and dirty laundry away from this side of the city.

Cavsop's fable is slightly different.

The Snake was no longer able to poison the Farmer's cattle but the Farmer offered the Snake a solution to its problems. The Snake failed to deliver snake skin for the Farmer's wife's handbag, so the Farmer cut off the Snake's heid.

[Baader]

Cavsop's fable is slightly different.

The Snake was no longer able to poison the Farmer's cattle but the Farmer offered the Snake a solution to its problems. The Snake failed to deliver snake skin for the Farmer's wife's handbag, so the Farmer cut off the Snake's heid.

Tom Farmer? :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

Tom Farmer? :greengrin

You tell me - you started with the Farmer stuff.

Now who would the Snake be? :hmmm:

[Scouse Hibee]

Only if they use removable seat covers for when the Yams are at home and steam clean the seats after every Yam game!

[southern hibby]

If the thought of selling Easter Road and going into BED with these CRETINS is entering anyones mind, then please remember the following :

1 We will have the same post code as Certain Pedo employers. :wink:

2 They can't pay wages, so what chance of rent getting paid on time is there. :wink:

3 We have had to endure them spending more on wages in search of untold (Champions League ) Glory. With us paying off debts to leave OUR HERITAGE INTACT for our GREAT, GREAT, GRANDCHILDREN. :agree:

4. But to my mind if we do this Why did WE HAVE HANDS OF HIBS to give them the first step on the ladder to some sort of unification with THEM. Also fight against the move to outside the City.

If this were to happen I would Honestly believe I have died and gone to HELL, because make no mistake that's what it would be to give up our Heritage (Easter Road). They made their bed let them lie in it.


As for sharing ER with us, hopefully they have enough honour in them NOT TO ASK.


GGTTH.

[iwasthere1972]

Treat it as an away game as it would be and get the whole South stand... No issue there in my opinion...

Where would we seat the other 5,000 season ticket holders? 5,000 exaggeration but could be if we go on a winning run until the end of the season.

[woody47]

Why on earth would we even think about ground sharing with that manky lot? They have been overspending for years and deserve everything they get - or not as the case may be.
I for one could not care less if they end up having to play their games in the meadows or some field in west lothian or even go out of business as it is their own fault thinking they were so much better AND bigger than the rest of us. They have been a right royal pain in the a$$ for years now and it would serve them right if they disappear into oblivion.
So in answer to the original question - a resounding NO!

[Hibercelona]

They have a steadily dying hell hole of a stadium which is fitting for their own demise.

Let them die away with their stadium, not at ER.

[Bishop Hibee]

I think groundsharing in a neutral venue (This new community stadium?) Would be financially a wise move for both clubs.

Aye, moving Hibs to the west of Edinburgh would be brilliant :rolleyes:

No need for a community stadium as it would be cheaper to redevelop Meadowbank for athletics, gymnastics, basketball etc and let Hertz use Murrayfield.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I voted no because it's our home and should stay that way. Having said that, I ALMOST voted yes just so we could laugh at them trekking to our beautiful stadium with their tails between their legs and then evict them the day before a match because they can't afford to pay us.

[LeithBoozy]

Do not ask for credit as a refusal often offends, my first thoughts are to let them rot. But there is no doubt we would miss them derby-wise and financially, If they go to the wall.

[greenlex]

Lets go the whole hog. We could rent out a corner of EastMains (just north of newcastle dontcha know) for say £50k per month. Obviously payable cash in advance. Every week except prior to derby games.

[Caversham Green]

Why on earth would we even think about ground sharing with that manky lot? They have been overspending for years and deserve everything they get - or not as the case may be.
I for one could not care less if they end up having to play their games in the meadows or some field in west lothian or even go out of business as it is their own fault thinking they were so much better AND bigger than the rest of us. They have been a right royal pain in the a$$ for years now and it would serve them right if they disappear into oblivion.
So in answer to the original question - a resounding NO!

The reason we would think about ground sharing is that we would be taking money from them to spend on our squad rather than them spending it on their squad. The alternative as far as Mr Cardownie is concerned is Edinburgh Council underwriting their overspending with the taxpayers' money. That is, every resident of Edinburgh funding the Yams while Hibs get nothing.

[Caversham Green]

Where would we seat the other 5,000 season ticket holders? 5,000 exaggeration but could be if we go on a winning run until the end of the season.

Season ticket holders don't get tickets for away matches - the ticket allocation would be the same as a game at Tynie or any other ground, only the location would be different. I think that's where I'd baulk if I was a ST holder though, the thought of sitting in the South looking at some Yam erse in my seat would not be pleasant.

[greenlex]

Season ticket holders don't get tickets for away matches - the ticket allocation would be the same as a game at Tynie or any other ground, only the location would be different. I think that's where I'd baulk if I was a ST holder though, the thought of sitting in the South looking at some Yam erse in my seat would not be pleasant.

They would need to put bbth sets of names on the seat.

Mr G Lex
Mr J Merrick

[Caversham Green]

They would need to put bbth sets of names on the seat.

Mr G Lex
Mr J Merrick

:greengrin Maybe fumigation costs would outweigh the income.

[Emerald]

Why don't we just say that they would be welcome to rent our stadium from us thus saving the council and taxpayers money. After all it would be money the council doesnt have anyway to pay for a stadium no one needs. They are closing schools and libraries to name a few and want to finance this pile of jobbies. If they refuse our offer then the council wouldnt have a leg to stand on. I think they are 'Foulked' this time!! :******::devil:

[Caversham Green]

Why don't we just say that they would be welcome to rent our stadium from us thus saving the council and taxpayers money. After all it would be money the council doesnt have anyway to pay for a stadium no one needs. They are closing schools and libraries to name a few and want to finance this pile of jobbies. If they refuse our offer then the council wouldnt have a leg to stand on. I think they are 'Foulked' this time!! :******::devil:

:agree: In a nutshell.

[Kaiser1962]

Lets go the whole hog. We could rent out a corner of EastMains (just north of newcastle dontcha know) for say £50k per month. Obviously payable cash in advance. Every week except prior to derby games.

January is going to be good as the Yams seem to think Sergio will be changing things and bringing in players. I think they may find that anybody will want cash up front for any deals involving Hearts and the have a history of paying (or not!) in installments. Was it Arbroath who had to take them to court?

[Kaiser1962]

Why don't we just say that they would be welcome to rent our stadium from us thus saving the council and taxpayers money. After all it would be money the council doesnt have anyway to pay for a stadium no one needs. They are closing schools and libraries to name a few and want to finance this pile of jobbies. If they refuse our offer then the council wouldnt have a leg to stand on. I think they are 'Foulked' this time!! :******::devil:


Exactly.

[francobaresi]

Where would we seat the other 5,000 season ticket holders? 5,000 exaggeration but could be if we go on a winning run until the end of the season.

The point I was making is if you go to Tynie you get x amount of tickets for the away end just like any other ground. If we were to play a Hearts team who played their home games at ER we would expect the same treatment as any other "technically away team" and recieve only allocation for the away stand as we would be the away team. Regardless of the amount of Season Ticket holders we have...

:aok:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Their own support would never buy it in a million years.

[greenginger]

Their own support would never buy it in a million years.

Beggars can't be choosers ! :agree: